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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I Koch Steffan never

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Speaker 1: told you a production of iHeartRadio. And we are entering

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Speaker 1: the final month of twenty twenty three, here we are,

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Speaker 1: and that can be quite a stressful time. We were

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Speaker 1: just talking about four students who have to cram for exam.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been so long since I've been a part

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Speaker 2: of that life style, but I remember this moment.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I totally forget about that. Oh my gosh.

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Speaker 1: And then for people traveling or decorating, cooking, all of

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Speaker 1: those things. And so in a recent happy hour I

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Speaker 1: mentioned are the emotional labor episode we did around the Holidays,

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Speaker 1: which is very funny to me because we did that

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Speaker 1: as part of a sponsorship deal. And I feel like

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Speaker 1: a lot of times when a sponsor was like, can

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Speaker 1: we do an EPISO, And we're like, here's ten depressing topics,

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Speaker 1: which one would you like?

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Speaker 4: Don't try to like catalyze on the idea? They like,

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Speaker 4: but we make it easier, yeah, and we're.

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Speaker 5: Like, it's still not easy. We're stressed out. We're stressed out. Well,

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Speaker 5: so please enjoy this classic episode. Hey, this is Annie

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Speaker 5: and Samantha, and welcome to STEPHF Mo've never told you

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Speaker 5: a prediction of iHeartRadio's House Stuff Work. Today we are

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Speaker 5: talking about emotional Labor Holiday edition. If you all remember

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Speaker 5: a while back, Virget and I did an episode on

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Speaker 5: emotional labor.

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Speaker 3: But today we're focusing specifically.

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Speaker 1: On the holidays, the holidays and the work that a

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Speaker 1: lot of women do to make the holidays happen. And

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Speaker 1: Samantha and I have already talked about how the holidays

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Speaker 1: are a bit of a source of stress for us.

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Speaker 1: I like the holidays, I'll put that out there, but

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Speaker 1: they are extremely stresful. They are not relaxing for me

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Speaker 1: at all. I have, in general a problem relaxing. So

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Speaker 1: hard to say right. So in my case, when I

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Speaker 1: look at what's stressing me, it's the planning, the shopping,

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Speaker 1: the making a food plus vegetarian because of my little brother,

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Speaker 1: of course, getting the timing of everything right, bringing all

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Speaker 1: the decorations down from the attic, and that's down sets

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Speaker 1: of stairs, setting them up, getting the tree, it's setting

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Speaker 1: that up, the lights, the ornaments, hanging outside lights, finding gifts,

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Speaker 1: wrapping them, writing cards, cleaning, and then the worst part

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Speaker 1: putting everything away stressed me out.

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Speaker 2: Just typing it yeah. I don't do any of those stuff,

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Speaker 2: and I'm still stressed. I barely like all my family

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Speaker 2: members getting gift cards. I am the best, worst, worst, best,

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Speaker 2: because you know, I give them what they want, but

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Speaker 2: it's not very creative.

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Speaker 1: Oh, we're going to talk about that a little bit more.

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Speaker 1: That's interesting, I will say. I'm just gonna throw this

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Speaker 1: out here.

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Speaker 3: From the research I read, a lot of people do

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Speaker 3: like gift cards. I don't. I'd rather get no gift

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Speaker 3: at all.

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Speaker 2: I would rather have something. If you were going to

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Speaker 2: give me a gift card, I want it to be

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Speaker 2: something that I will use. So if you give me

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Speaker 2: a gift card to Panera Starbucks, not gonna be as happy.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, because I don't go to those places, right, kidding, right,

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Speaker 2: Although don't get me wrong, sometimes soup is delicious.

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Speaker 1: See what I don't like about gift cards. I'm wondering

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Speaker 1: if any of my relatives are going to listen to this. Well,

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Speaker 1: I'll say it. I don't like that you can't. I

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Speaker 1: don't know how much is on it, and I don't

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Speaker 1: like the moment of I have no idea how much is.

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Speaker 3: This going to get me?

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Speaker 1: Right, especially when it comes to bank gift cards because

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Speaker 1: I really would just rather have money or check.

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Speaker 3: That's going to be what it is.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I probably have at least twenty seven

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Speaker 1: dollars on past gift car cards.

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Speaker 4: I just, yeah, it is.

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Speaker 2: It is a nice little trick because either you can't

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Speaker 2: spend it all right, or you're going to spend that

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Speaker 2: and then extra on top of that.

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Speaker 4: It's a gimmick.

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Speaker 3: It is a gimmick. That's sorry, we're coming out strong.

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Speaker 4: Gift cards. I like give cards, Like I said.

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Speaker 3: Oh well, agreed to disagree on this point.

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Speaker 1: Numerous studies have found that women experience and increase in

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Speaker 1: psychological stress during the holidays greater than what men experience,

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Speaker 1: and that this increase in stress is worse in the US.

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Speaker 1: I actually really enjoyed one of the interview subjects, a

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Speaker 1: male interview subject, when asked about this, he said, I

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Speaker 1: thought people feel stressed in the holidays.

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Speaker 3: I thought they were like relaxing. I don't, I've never

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Speaker 3: heard of this. I wanted to hug him and be like, oh,

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Speaker 3: you wonderful. Someone's really been making this happen for you.

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Speaker 4: Very happy and bluss yes, hashtag blust.

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Speaker 1: Hashtag bloss from a two thousand and six survey conducted

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Speaker 1: by Greenberg Quinnian Rosner quote holiday stress has a particular

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Speaker 1: impact on women, who take charge of many of the

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Speaker 1: holiday celebrations, particularly the task related to preparing meals and

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Speaker 1: decorating the home. Women are more likely than men to

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Speaker 1: report an increase of stress during the holiday season. In addition,

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Speaker 1: they have a harder time relaxing during the holidays and

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Speaker 1: are more likely to fall into bad habits to manage

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Speaker 1: their stress, like comfort eating. Women are much more likely

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Speaker 1: to shoulder the work burden during family celebrations. During Thanksgiving,

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Speaker 1: women are nearly twice as likely to report that they

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Speaker 1: will cook sixty six percent of women versus thirty five

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Speaker 1: percent of men, shop for food fifty two percent of

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Speaker 1: women versus thirty two percent of men, and clean dirty

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Speaker 1: dishes seventy percent of women versus forty one percent of men. Men,

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Speaker 1: on the other hand, are nearly twice as likely as

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Speaker 1: women to report that they will watch football twenty six

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Speaker 1: percent of women versus forty six percent of men. So

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Speaker 1: that's the end of a quote that was a whole.

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Speaker 1: Only a quarter of women feel that they can relax

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Speaker 1: during the holidays was another thing. I found and the

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Speaker 1: main reasons women gave for their stress were money, pressure

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Speaker 1: of buying and wrapping gifts, and lack of time. Another

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Speaker 1: study found women are twice as likely yeah, to be

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Speaker 1: behind the holiday feast.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, my mom is definitely a prime example of

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Speaker 2: all of these things.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, my mom gets very, very.

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Speaker 2: Very stressed out, and then my dad gets stressed out

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Speaker 2: watching her, and so he gets angry, oh, and will

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Speaker 2: be a little snyed with her, and then she will

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Speaker 2: get more angry and more anxious because of that and

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Speaker 2: eventually call him a gas which is a holiday tradition.

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Speaker 2: And I'm really excited.

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Speaker 4: I hope. I'm sure my niece may actually hear this.

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Speaker 4: Please don't report this by my mother.

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Speaker 2: But it's become a kind of a holiday tradition where

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Speaker 2: she finally just breaks and become very country.

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Speaker 4: And call.

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Speaker 2: And then she but she has this whole expectation that

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Speaker 2: it must be part effect. These are the things that

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Speaker 2: she has to do. She doesn't want to ask anybody

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Speaker 2: for help. It's probably gotten to the point that my

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Speaker 2: sister and sister in laws are able to take a

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Speaker 2: little bit of the responsibility, and she'll allow it.

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Speaker 4: But she also decorates in themes.

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Speaker 2: So she decorates in all of the homes and it

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Speaker 2: is like Christmas threw up everywhere everywhere. Yes, because so

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Speaker 2: one side maybe like country Christmas and the others and

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Speaker 2: like fancy French Christmas.

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Speaker 4: Like it's just absurd.

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Speaker 2: And and I walk in, there's waths at the beginning,

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Speaker 2: there's probably lights already on the outside. You go in

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Speaker 2: and there is the fake snow, cotton snow everywhere with

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Speaker 2: a little bit of glitter and all these figurings, stockings everywhere.

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Speaker 4: It is a thing.

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Speaker 2: And I feel, yes, I've been very lucky, lucky and

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Speaker 2: privileged to be able to celebrate it that way.

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Speaker 4: But to me, I'm like, that's not worth it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'll say that's a lot more than what

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Speaker 1: I am doing.

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Speaker 2: I know my mother enjoys the stuff well to an extent,

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Speaker 2: to an extent, and that.

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Speaker 1: Is something to say, is that some women really enjoyed

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Speaker 1: its thrive in it.

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Speaker 2: And it makes me stressed out because I'm not creative

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Speaker 2: and I'm not very what's the word qut seed homie,

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Speaker 2: So I have no knowledge of doing that. I have

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Speaker 2: always get the sag Charlie Brown Tree because I think

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Speaker 2: it's fantastic.

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Speaker 4: And a few little ridiculous trinkets on there. I think

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Speaker 4: I bought some shiny balls, yes, to put.

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Speaker 2: On their red silver and gold, because I don't like

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Speaker 2: the typical oh, you know, you know, and then but

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Speaker 2: that's it.

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Speaker 4: That's it.

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Speaker 2: And then my friend bought me two little baby stockings

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Speaker 2: for myself and my dog.

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Speaker 4: That's cute, right, I don't buy that for myself.

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Speaker 1: My I put up a tiny sag Charlie Brown tree

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Speaker 1: in my little apartment that you've seen, and all of

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Speaker 1: my ornaments are Harry Potter doctor, who's like Captain America.

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Speaker 1: So it's a very personalized tree, yes, yes, which I like.

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Speaker 1: And kind of going back to what you were saying

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Speaker 1: about your dad getting stress watching your mom, My dad

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Speaker 1: used to it's almost like he wanted to be involved, right,

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Speaker 1: especially with shopping, and then he would get so impatient

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Speaker 1: and annoyed with the shopping that we would have to

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Speaker 1: leave early and we didn't even get done what we

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Speaker 1: had to get done. So we're gonna come back and

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Speaker 1: talk to talk more about that in a little bit.

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Speaker 1: But okay, no surprise that this added stress we're talking

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Speaker 1: about is not good for our health. Research shows that

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Speaker 1: it can lead to anxiety and depression, specifically research into

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Speaker 1: holiday stress. There's a pressure to always do more. I

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Speaker 1: should be doing this or that, especially when children are evolved.

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Speaker 3: Feeling like a failure, like.

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Speaker 1: You're not meeting these standards that you're putting on yourself

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Speaker 1: or that you feel like society is placing on you

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Speaker 1: is not a good mental state, not at all. No,

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Speaker 1: all right, So what are we talking about? What's going

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Speaker 1: on here? Several things?

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Speaker 2: Actually, so a quick recap for me as well, because

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Speaker 2: I wasn't here to do the emotional labor episode. But

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Speaker 2: emotional labor means essentially it's unpaid. Usually, I noticed emotional

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Speaker 2: labor we do for those around us to keep them

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Speaker 2: comfortable and happy, and women do the bulk of it,

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Speaker 2: or they do in.

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Speaker 4: Our pop culture definition.

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Speaker 2: The term emotional labor was originally coined in nineteen seventy

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Speaker 2: nine by Arlie Russell Hushchild and applied to what the

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Speaker 2: labor workers in the service industry do to ensure a

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Speaker 2: customer's happiness by putting on a happy face. Basically, so,

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Speaker 2: she argues that we overuse it these days and that

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Speaker 2: we severely muddle the original definition, but she does agree

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Speaker 2: that there is something happening, and we don't quite have

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Speaker 2: the language to express when we talk about women and

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Speaker 2: emotional labor. In her mind, we're conflating perfectionism and simple labor,

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Speaker 2: sometimes mental with emotional labor. Emotional labor does very culturally.

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Speaker 2: Somethings Americans point to as emotional labor. Other cultures would

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Speaker 2: view differently, And we would love to hear any of

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Speaker 2: the differences from our listeners. So if y'all know or

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Speaker 2: can say any of the differences, please let us know.

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Speaker 1: Yes, please, So during the holidays, this work, emotional, mental,

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Speaker 1: or just labor, whatever you want to call it, increases exponentially.

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Speaker 1: The planning part is really key. That background mental energy

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Speaker 1: that you're expending on an enormous scope of people gives food, decorations,

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Speaker 1: all of those things. The expectation is for the holidays

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Speaker 1: to be perfect and magical. If they aren't, which of course,

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Speaker 1: they won't be perfect, it feels like failing, and that

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Speaker 1: is a lot of pressure. Making the holidays happen is work,

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Speaker 1: and largely it is and has been women's work.

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Speaker 3: It's work. Yes, some women really love but.

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Speaker 1: Others not so much, or maybe it's just overwhelming and exhausting.

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Speaker 3: Maybe like me, it's something I do enjoy it.

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Speaker 2: It's a lot, yeah, and I don't enjoy it, so

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Speaker 2: I try to avoid it at all costs.

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Speaker 1: Yes, well, it seems like you've been fairly successful. You're

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Speaker 1: not failing or succeeding.

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Speaker 4: I'm succeeding and not caring.

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Speaker 3: There you go.

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Speaker 1: Historically, women have been responsible for making the holidays happen,

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Speaker 1: going back to the eighteenth century and probably even earlier.

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Speaker 3: Before women entered the workforce, is a part It was

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Speaker 3: a part of their duties as a housewife. This duty

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Speaker 3: has been solidified through various time periods and by various institutions,

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Speaker 3: cultural movements, and societal constructs like the cult of domesticity,

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Speaker 3: the cultivated image of the perfect housewife and mother, and

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Speaker 3: even religion. Kirk Cameron recently.

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Speaker 1: Posted a video directed at women in which she said,

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Speaker 1: let your children and your family see your joy in

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Speaker 1: the way that you decorate your home this Christmas. In

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Speaker 1: the food that you cook, the songs you sing, the

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Speaker 1: stories you tell, and the traditions you keep several Christian circles.

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Speaker 1: This is still viewed. All of those things still viewed

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Speaker 1: as a women's duty. To make Christmas run smoothly for

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Speaker 1: her family.

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Speaker 4: Oh that quote made me nauseous.

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Speaker 3: It's it's not good. Yeah, it's really bad.

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Speaker 4: If you love it, then love it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you do you but yeah, don't be sure

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Speaker 2: status and whether or not you're doing well as a

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Speaker 2: parent or a wife on that bs.

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Speaker 4: Yeah yet nah.

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Speaker 1: And even as women have gotten jobs, the expectation that

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Speaker 1: will take charge of the holidays hasn't changed. Oh and also,

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Speaker 1: just to be clear, being a housewife is a job.

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Speaker 3: It's a job. It is very hard.

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Speaker 1: It's just an unpaid and unvalued one. And yeah, why

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Speaker 1: is it that women's work isn't seen as real work.

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Speaker 1: It's just something or expected to do without pay, without recognition,

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Speaker 1: and perhaps it might even cost us to do it.

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Speaker 2: Hmm.

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Speaker 4: Interesting, Christmas is expensive?

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Speaker 3: It is so expensive?

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Speaker 4: Are expensive?

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Speaker 3: Yes, we're going to get more into Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. As we've discussed on the show, women are still

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Speaker 2: doing more of the housework when compared to men in

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Speaker 2: heterosexual relationships or situations. They also are doing more of

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Speaker 2: the household budgeting, which is a major headache during the

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Speaker 2: holidays obviously, and also obviously being responsible for gift and

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Speaker 2: thoughtful ones can put a dent in a woman's finances

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Speaker 2: a huge did. Going back to those top reasons for

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Speaker 2: holiday stress, two of them, gift giving and money are

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Speaker 2: all wrapped up into this, and this further penalizes lower

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Speaker 2: and middle class women who might be working more than

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Speaker 2: one job and are enabled to afford childcare or other

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Speaker 2: help that could alleviate some holiday stress. So women spend

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Speaker 2: considerably more time and money when it comes to gifts,

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Speaker 2: more out of buying for a wider network of people

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Speaker 2: than a one on one comparison.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so to kind of explain that a bit more,

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Speaker 1: we did want to focus on gift giving for a

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Speaker 1: second because that is such a huge part of holiday stress.

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Speaker 3: Wait wait, wait, wait wait wait wait.

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Speaker 1: Way back a host past host Kristin and Molly did

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Speaker 1: an episode on whether men or women we are better

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Speaker 1: at gift giving, So you can find that in archive

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Speaker 1: if you want. But right now, brief overview, there is

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Speaker 1: actually a decent amount of research around gender differences and

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Speaker 1: gift giving, and that research is found that in general,

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Speaker 1: gift giving is important to our social relationships around the world.

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Speaker 1: Bad gifts can negatively impact relationships, and men are far

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Speaker 1: more judgmental of bad gifts, while women are more likely

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Speaker 1: to downplay disappointment to protect the relationship and the other

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Speaker 1: person's feelings, and women by gifts for a wider group

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Speaker 1: of friends, so they spend more money on gifts and

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Speaker 1: they are generally better at selecting gifts. This sort of

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Speaker 1: goes back to what we discussed in our original Emotional

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Speaker 1: Labor episode that women are more willing to put in

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Speaker 1: the work and invest in friend groups other than men.

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Speaker 1: That goes back to I know we brought it up

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Speaker 1: recently in our heartbreak episode, but how female waters have

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Speaker 1: more positive health outcomes than male widowers and they think

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Speaker 1: it has to do with this wider support group. The

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Speaker 1: research suggests that it has to do with this better

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Speaker 1: gift giving has to do with interpersonal interest, which is

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Speaker 1: having an interest in other people, and interpersonal reactivity, which

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Speaker 1: is the ability to take on another person's perspective. It

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Speaker 1: could also have to do with reputation or to create

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Speaker 1: a sense of superiority or indebtedness, or to show off,

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Speaker 1: and or this expectation that we put on women that

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Speaker 1: we keep talking about that you have to be good

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Speaker 1: at these things.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The research is also found women are both more likely

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Speaker 1: to give and to receive, and that men with more

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Speaker 1: egalitarian views and gay men were more likely to be

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Speaker 1: more involved in gift giving. One study found that male

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Speaker 1: to male gifts only accounted for four percent of gift giving.

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Speaker 1: It also found that a lot of male gift giving.

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Speaker 1: In a lot of male gift giving, the gift is

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Speaker 1: actually picked out and sometimes purchased and wrapped by the woman.

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Speaker 1: In the context of heterosexual relationships, makes my heart hurt.

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Speaker 3: If that's how.

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Speaker 4: You like it to be, great, why no presence, bro.

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Speaker 1: My mom definitely did this any other The letter always says,

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Speaker 1: like in her handwriting to Susan from Michael, like.

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Speaker 2: I do have a tradition where my father sends me

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Speaker 2: Valentine's Day candy and has for years, and he's so

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Speaker 2: proud of the fact that he has picked out the

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Speaker 2: candy for me, the specific whatever, handpicked and made sure

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Speaker 2: to tell me I picked this out for you, so

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Speaker 2: well I know that it wasn't my mother, right.

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Speaker 3: Right, right right.

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Speaker 1: Yet another study into gift giving found women view gift

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Speaker 1: giving as a responsibility and obligation to be checked off

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Speaker 1: of a list that they sometimes enjoy and sometimes don't,

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Speaker 1: whereas men see it as a chance to get something

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Speaker 1: for someone else that brings.

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Speaker 3: Them as in the men pleasure.

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Speaker 1: A lot of these studies were conducted in Western societies, though,

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Speaker 1: so again, we'd love to hear from listeners from elsewhere.

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Speaker 2: From a study called The Perfect Present, Gift giving and

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Speaker 2: gender norms among gifters, women ruled they not only spend

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Speaker 2: more time on gifts and give gifts to more people,

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Speaker 2: but they also invest more of their ideas of themselves

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Speaker 2: and the relationships in the process. This is part of

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Speaker 2: what makes women the single largest consumer group worldwide. If

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Speaker 2: we align these fightings with poverty statistics, we could extrapolate

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Speaker 2: that ginger expectations and social pressures around gifting stressed women

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Speaker 2: both economically and psychically. Poverty rates are higher among women,

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Speaker 2: and more than half of all children living in poverty

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Speaker 2: are careful primarily by their mothers. The average person celebrating Christmas,

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Speaker 2: Kwanza and Orhonka will spend eight hundred and four dollars

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Speaker 2: and forty two cents, up nearly five percent over last

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Speaker 2: year's actual seven hundred and sixty seven dollars and twenty

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Speaker 2: seven cents, according to prosper Insights and Analytics studies, we

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Speaker 2: could also bring into the conversation ginger toys and the

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Speaker 2: impact that it has on reinforcing ginger contracts. And you

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Speaker 2: can listen to our Action Figure episodes for more on that.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and then there's the whole thing of giving women

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Speaker 1: sexy lingerie, which they might totally be into, but in

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Speaker 1: straight relationships unless a woman specifically asked for it. To me,

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Speaker 1: it feels like it might be more of a gift

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Speaker 1: for the dude or like also a vacuum or something,

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Speaker 1: unless again, the person specifically asked for it enthusiastically.

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Speaker 3: I really want this, right, Yeah, I.

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Speaker 4: Really want an air fire oven.

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Speaker 3: Oh she said it here noted noted.

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Speaker 1: And there's a great example of this whole thing in

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Speaker 1: The Simpsons when Homer buys Marge a bowling ball that

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Speaker 1: has his name engraved in it and it is cut

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Speaker 1: to fit his fingers perfect.

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Speaker 3: Yes, in all fairness, I'll be fair.

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Speaker 1: I was guilty of try and convince my little brother

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Speaker 1: he really wanted whatever video game I really wanted when

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Speaker 1: we were children.

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Speaker 3: And he usually did. We had similar taste.

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Speaker 1: But I'd be lying if I said I was being

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Speaker 1: altrue at that game.

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Speaker 3: I usually minds so long, and I'm like, well, I

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Speaker 3: got to put some things on his right.

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Speaker 4: I love you so much, so you would love this gift.

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Speaker 3: You would really dig it, anecdotally, continued anecdotally, my dad

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Speaker 3: never wrapped gifts, and the stuff he gave me was

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Speaker 3: usually a random assortment of items, like a football a

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Speaker 3: few years ago. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that sometimes I liked a lot of times

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Speaker 1: I didn't. I do the bee, my bee. That was

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Speaker 1: one of the random gifts that I think he just

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Speaker 1: didn't think I'd like, but I really did. My mom,

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Speaker 1: on the other hand, gets me stuff based on something

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Speaker 1: I said in a random conversation months ago. I know

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Speaker 1: a lot of the says have also shown that women's

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Speaker 1: shop for Christmas all year round.

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Speaker 3: Men started like the week of Christmas.

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Speaker 2: And that is definitely my mother. She she shops all

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Speaker 2: year around. She sees a good sell, she will get it. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that is what I've discovered for me. She actually buys

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00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:01,359
Speaker 2: based on past likes. Oh yeah, so I may no

402
00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:03,679
Speaker 2: longer like it, but it has a tradition to it,

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Speaker 2: so I still end.

404
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Speaker 4: Up getting it.

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Speaker 2: It was kind of like those wooden angels I said

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00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:10,760
Speaker 2: one time, I liked one. I've got about fifty yeah,

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Speaker 2: I don't know what to do with them.

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00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:14,680
Speaker 1: I haven't aunt who did the same thing. I actually

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Speaker 1: don't even remember saying. I like tea cups and I

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00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:19,800
Speaker 1: can't drink tea, but she gets a.

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Speaker 4: Tea cup every year, so it's thoughtful.

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Speaker 1: It is thoughtful, and they're pretty. I kind of use

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00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:30,040
Speaker 1: them as a decoration. I remember once my ex boyfriend

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00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:32,320
Speaker 1: he I can't remember why, but he was showing me

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Speaker 1: a screenshot of his laptop and it was around Christmas time,

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Speaker 1: and one of the tabs was.

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Speaker 3: How to wrap a gift and that made me laugh.

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Speaker 2: Look, I'm awful at wrapping gifts, and my mother is queen.

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Speaker 2: She is the Martha Stewart of wrapping. It's always a

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Speaker 2: piece of art. I really wish I could show you. Well,

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00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:52,040
Speaker 2: I'll take Peter's pictures this week. But all of us

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00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,520
Speaker 2: feel guilty in trying to open these presents because it's

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00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:58,439
Speaker 2: so elaborately beautiful. Yeah, and I'm like, okay, I'm just

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00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:00,640
Speaker 2: gonna put some brown tape on it. Yeah, maybe I'll

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00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:04,160
Speaker 2: put the newspaper here and my name onto the bag. Awesome,

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Speaker 2: I will say gift bags on my favorite thing.

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00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:08,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like gift bags and tissue paper I do.

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Speaker 1: I wrap my mom's gift because she wraps mine and

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Speaker 1: I used to be really good at wrapping, and.

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Speaker 3: Something's gone terribly wrong. I don't know. I lost it somewhere.

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Speaker 3: I lost my mojo.

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Speaker 1: One year. I got pretty much everyone in my life

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Speaker 1: a gift a couple of years ago, and that was

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00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:26,439
Speaker 1: a very expensive endeavor. But I have this note on

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Speaker 1: my phone that I open when anyone mentions something that

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Speaker 1: I think would be a good gift for them. So

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Speaker 1: it kind of just I'm more of someone I would

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Speaker 1: rather get a gift that I know you'll really love

439
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:37,960
Speaker 1: than just buy you something because it's Christmas time.

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Speaker 3: And I've got to get you something.

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Speaker 2: Thus far, you've done really well with my gifts. Yes,

442
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:44,880
Speaker 2: I just take you off for drinks.

443
00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:49,040
Speaker 1: Oh I love that, though, I'd rather have that almost always.

444
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:51,000
Speaker 3: And I do want to say here, I.

445
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,520
Speaker 1: Have plenty, plenty, plenty of female friends who are terrible

446
00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:53,960
Speaker 1: at gifts.

447
00:22:54,320 --> 00:23:00,280
Speaker 3: Apologies, you know who you are? That to me? You, Yeah,

448
00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:02,200
Speaker 3: I love drinks, that's number one.

449
00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:04,880
Speaker 1: And I have a few male friends who are really

450
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:08,399
Speaker 1: great at them. So these are these are generalities we

451
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,080
Speaker 1: supported by research, but they're still kind of There are

452
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:15,120
Speaker 1: obviously exceptions, and it's really the societal expectation and pressure

453
00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:16,960
Speaker 1: that's the heart of the issue here.

454
00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:19,359
Speaker 3: If that's something that you love to do, that's great.

455
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:21,600
Speaker 4: I used to be really good at it and very thoughtful.

456
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:22,720
Speaker 4: I just got really tired.

457
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:23,840
Speaker 3: It's exhausting.

458
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:26,120
Speaker 1: It's probably the main point of this episode could really

459
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:27,359
Speaker 1: just be it's exhausting.

460
00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:29,840
Speaker 2: As we're getting older, it's harder and harder to get

461
00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,800
Speaker 2: you something that you may not already have bought yourself sure,

462
00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:35,520
Speaker 2: or that you you know you don't necessarily need. It's

463
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:37,560
Speaker 2: kind of hard because it's not like, oh, I have everything.

464
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 2: What do you give to someone who has everything?

465
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:39,840
Speaker 3: Right?

466
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:41,200
Speaker 4: Right conversation?

467
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,200
Speaker 2: In our society, we assume that it's in women's nature

468
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:46,359
Speaker 2: to be more thoughtful and more able to manage the

469
00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:50,280
Speaker 2: emotions of others. It comes with the territory of being emotional,

470
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:52,840
Speaker 2: which we all know isn't true. These things don't just

471
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,560
Speaker 2: come naturally or easily for all of us. Also, these

472
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,200
Speaker 2: emotions of ours only seem to be good when they're

473
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:01,200
Speaker 2: boosting men in some way, and other studies have found

474
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 2: because women are painted as more caring and giving, they

475
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 2: feel the need to perceive themselves that way. So nevertheless,

476
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,199
Speaker 2: then the expectation contributes to an environment that rewards been

477
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:13,800
Speaker 2: for doing what women are simply expected to do and

478
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:16,520
Speaker 2: punished for not doing it. And studies have found that

479
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 2: women do a brunt of the work of kinship that is,

480
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:22,959
Speaker 2: an interpersonal network of family and friends, whether they are

481
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:27,320
Speaker 2: hers or not, basically the work of maintaining social ties,

482
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:31,639
Speaker 2: which absolutely is work in the heterosexual context. If the

483
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:35,240
Speaker 2: wife or mom dies, the work is left undone. And

484
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:39,560
Speaker 2: it was spoken about yep, and the emotional labor episode.

485
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,640
Speaker 2: And one study posits that because the holidays are primarily

486
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:47,360
Speaker 2: about children and traditionally children have been women's responsibilities by proxy,

487
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 2: the holidays and making the magical has always become or.

488
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:54,440
Speaker 4: Is women's responsibilities.

489
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:57,320
Speaker 3: Yeah.

490
00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:59,919
Speaker 1: I found a really interesting study about the work behind

491
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:04,159
Speaker 1: what we culturally conceive as love that really made me

492
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:06,960
Speaker 1: think about the gender differences and how we expect people

493
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:10,800
Speaker 1: to express love for women. I would argue that this

494
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:13,600
Speaker 1: planning of the holiday has gotten twisted up with how

495
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:16,439
Speaker 1: we demonstrate our love and at the same time our value, Like,

496
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,920
Speaker 1: look at how much I'm contributing, and I'm not saying

497
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:22,160
Speaker 1: it's wrong if that's how someone truly wants to show

498
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,160
Speaker 1: their love, but the obligation to do so or else

499
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 1: be judged as not loving or caring. That's a problem

500
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 1: for me. My brothers, I'll say, they will help if

501
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:38,880
Speaker 1: I ask with all of these things, the decorations in particular,

502
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 1: but then it's my responsibility to delegate to.

503
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 3: Show them how to do everything, and them.

504
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:50,320
Speaker 1: Growing increasingly more annoyed, and all the while that expectation

505
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:51,960
Speaker 1: is that I am the one that will do it,

506
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,119
Speaker 1: and that helping me is something that they do.

507
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 3: I have the kindness of their hearts.

508
00:25:56,160 --> 00:26:00,359
Speaker 1: And it should be complimented, whereas I'm just gonna I

509
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 1: guess spent my day doing this.

510
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:04,040
Speaker 3: Anyway.

511
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:08,239
Speaker 1: And now we've got to talk about the kids, all

512
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 1: the children, the children. But first we've got to take

513
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 1: a quick break for word from our sponsor, and we're back.

514
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 3: Thank you sponsor. Okay, So I'm a single lady, are you? Yeah?

515
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I've got enough stress, thank you very much.

516
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 1: And Samantha and I have talked about the single lady

517
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 1: stress of being asked by all your family members why

518
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:46,439
Speaker 1: you're single around the holidays. But I have plenty of

519
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:50,159
Speaker 1: female friends who have children and they have things on

520
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 1: their plate that I don't when it comes to the holidays.

521
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:55,560
Speaker 3: A lot, a lot of very stressful things, right, so

522
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 3: many things.

523
00:26:56,440 --> 00:27:01,439
Speaker 1: Yes, Taking pictures for holiday cards also defensive, and sending

524
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 1: those out, booking the photographer, finding outfits, choosing the best photo,

525
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 1: handwriting messages and addresses, taking the kids to see Santa,

526
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 1: baking cookies for a holiday function at school, tipping the

527
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 1: post worker, Contacting everyone and wishing them happy holidays on

528
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,200
Speaker 1: both sides of the family if a significant other is involved.

529
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 3: This is one of my biggest pet peeves. I do

530
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:22,600
Speaker 3: not like that. Again, if you like it, good for you.

531
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:24,920
Speaker 1: But why am I suddenly having to contact your mom

532
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 1: and tell her happy holidays?

533
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 3: Anyway? So that's my problem.

534
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:35,119
Speaker 1: Getting gifts for the kids, hiding those gifts, making Christmas magical.

535
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 1: That might involve, you know, one year, my parents did

536
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 1: a whole They got on the roof and yeah, it

537
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 1: was a whole thing, and I mean it really did.

538
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:44,480
Speaker 3: It made it magical.

539
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 1: But my gosh, it must have been so much work

540
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:52,399
Speaker 1: a new one, moving the elf on the shelf, constantly, constantly, constantly,

541
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 1: and smiling through all of that. That is a lot

542
00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:02,119
Speaker 1: of work and again exhaust sure. One of the biggest

543
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 1: things when you're looking at arguments around emotional labor what

544
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 1: we have sort of pop culturally been calling emotional labor.

545
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 3: Just don't do those things then.

546
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,399
Speaker 1: And if you don't, you could not do them, but

547
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,480
Speaker 1: it would come at the cost of disappointment of loved ones,

548
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 1: maybe voice disappointment, right.

549
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 4: As well as probably judgment from some judgment.

550
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:27,239
Speaker 3: And in the case of a kid, it's.

551
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:28,880
Speaker 4: Sad, I sad.

552
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, It's expected that women will consider the feelings of others,

553
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 1: so not doing so is seen as a failure, and

554
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 1: with kids involved, this expectation, reinforced by an enormous library

555
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 1: of holiday movies and women's magazines, is all.

556
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 2: The higher, right, And obviously Kurt Cameron's little comment right

557
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 2: that was recently made, and I think it's fair to say.

558
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 2: I know my friend groups, the men or the partners

559
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 2: and spouses have absolutely it is fifty to fifty for them,

560
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,960
Speaker 2: and they will do a lot of it as well. Now, yeah,

561
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 2: but as we see, still not the cultural norm and

562
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 2: it should.

563
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 1: Be right absolutely in my family, I was just thinking

564
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 1: of the little things my mom did that made it

565
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 1: magical that I probably didn't appreciate how much work and

566
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 1: planning went into them. One of my favorites was we

567
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 1: make gingerbread cookies every year, which requires at least one

568
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 1: day to let the dough chill in the fridge and

569
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:30,120
Speaker 1: a lot of cleaning afterwards. Are very messy cookie to make.

570
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 1: She also used to make the gingerbread man or woman.

571
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 1: One of them would run away and would leave clues

572
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 1: around the house as to its whereabouts. She did this

573
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 1: for the first time when I was fourteen, and I

574
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 1: loved it, wh like I immediately fell in love with

575
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 1: the whole thing.

576
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 4: That's really elaborate.

577
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was so fun. She knows that really competitive.

578
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 1: Like I've said in previous episodes, she still hides Easter

579
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 1: eggs for me, but because I loved it so much,

580
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 1: it became a thing she did every year, and she

581
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 1: confided me once I became older that she found it

582
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 1: really stressful because eventually, like you run out of clue ideas,

583
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 1: that's like where else is it gonna go? So things

584
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 1: like that they really do involve a lot more than

585
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 1: perhaps we recognize. She also used to get out her

586
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 1: fanciest dishes, but over the years to make the holidays

587
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 1: less stressful.

588
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 2: We don't do it anymore, right, My family has changed

589
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 2: holiday mills a lot, and it's become rather than the

590
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 2: full feast. Yeah, sometimes it's become sandwiches because my mom

591
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:39,960
Speaker 2: is like, I'm not doing it this year. That's fair, mom,

592
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 2: that's fair. Sometimes she will do a lasagna, so like

593
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 2: an Italian throwback.

594
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 4: Nobody my family's a time.

595
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 2: And so she would do things like that as well

596
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 2: as like Thanksgiving.

597
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 4: If we had a.

598
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 2: Giant feast during Thanksgiving, Christmas is going to be lesser,

599
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 2: really what we like. It's just kind of because she's like,

600
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 2: I do all of this, and she puts so much

601
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 2: on her plate.

602
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 4: We all end up the sinking.

603
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 2: Okay, that's fine, it's fine. She's gonna eat sandwiches. I

604
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 2: love sandwiches, but that's still elaborate sandwiches. My mom has

605
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 2: four types of bread that's on the table, as well

606
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:14,480
Speaker 2: as five meats or options, as well as a lot

607
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 2: of sides, so it's still elaborate. But yeah, she's as

608
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 2: we've gotten older, she would slow down. But now that

609
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 2: the child grand children are older, she's kind of come

610
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 2: back to that mentality a little bit. Trying to celebrate

611
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 2: for the younger kids, but great grandkids.

612
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, we were there.

613
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's kind of like back to Okay, we're

614
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 2: celebrating a little less because they don't know exactly what's

615
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 2: going on, and all of her grandkids are teenagers so

616
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 2: they don't care as much and we're all adult.

617
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 4: So but it's the whole thing.

618
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 3: It is.

619
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 1: That's something that I've h and I don't want to

620
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 1: make it sound like so I cook the meal, but

621
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:55,960
Speaker 1: my mom is there the whole time, and she's she helps, and.

622
00:31:57,840 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 3: I have made it into a thing that I enjoy.

623
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 1: It's just the stress and the obligation, mostly of the

624
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 1: planning and making sure everything comes out at the right time.

625
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 3: And we have.

626
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 1: Slowly and it's mostly me to the annoyance of everyone else.

627
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 1: But since I'm cooking it, I'm like, we're not cooking

628
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 1: that anymore because I don't really like it, and if

629
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:21,720
Speaker 1: you want it, you can cook it. So our menu

630
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 1: has also gotten a little bit more condensed.

631
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, you've taken a lot more responsibility. I guess you're

632
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 2: the only female in your family, as I'm the youngest

633
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 2: and I'm not the only female. Yeah, I kind of

634
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:35,960
Speaker 2: going to my sister and my sister in laws and

635
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 2: I just kind of show up. I'm still children treated

636
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 2: like at the teenager, which is cool. Yeah, I'm just

637
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 2: in the kids table, not do things great.

638
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 1: I actually was thinking about that the other day, and

639
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 1: I was trying to reason out why in my personal experience,

640
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 1: the women do make the holidays happen. And one of

641
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 1: them is the whole reason I started cooking. Is I

642
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 1: had it in my head. I was I was in

643
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:02,960
Speaker 1: high school. I thought, you know, when I get married,

644
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 1: I won't know how to cook anything. So I asked

645
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 1: my mom one year, I want to learn how to

646
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 1: cook all of the things that you cook so I

647
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 1: can make it for what I thought I was going

648
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 1: to have my own family, and I want to be

649
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 1: able to do it. And just that tradition of passing

650
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 1: on recipes and traditions, and then from there it just

651
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 1: became the next years or practice year, and now every

652
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 1: years practice That's okay, I it is mostly my fault,

653
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 1: that's okay. Also, my mom has a policy of silly

654
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 1: hats so we won't fight with each other. That is

655
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 1: surprisingly effective, and I think I should write a blog

656
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 1: post about it.

657
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 3: If you know how to deal with the holidays, silly hats.

658
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 1: But that's another example of managing the emotions of others.

659
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 1: And it does feel like the holidays have been sold.

660
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 1: Is this wonderful time where everyone is happy, and if

661
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 1: that doesn't happen, then.

662
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 3: You're doing them wrong or something's gone wrong.

663
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 1: And the job of everyone making everyone happy falls so

664
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:00,120
Speaker 1: often to women.

665
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 3: And a lot of us I'm sure a lot of listeners.

666
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 1: Uh.

667
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 3: We don't get along with our family all the time.

668
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 1: So it's like this one time of year, we're all

669
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 1: performing and if only we can make it this holiday great,

670
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:13,839
Speaker 1: then we can stay together. If I can make this

671
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 1: one good enough, I can keep this family together. And

672
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 1: that's something that I really internalized. I've recently come to

673
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 1: realize that my need to make people happy is so strong,

674
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 1: and it's so much a part of how I've defined

675
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 1: myself for so long. I literally sometimes feel like I'm

676
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 1: a comedian coming on stage after the last comedian who

677
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:37,959
Speaker 1: totally bombed, and I've got to like.

678
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:39,920
Speaker 3: Salvage this situation.

679
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:44,400
Speaker 1: And it's it's tiring, but it's to the point that

680
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 1: I made twenty dollars. Somebody gave me twenty dollars at

681
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 1: my dad's wake for being entertaining.

682
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 4: Entertaining. Yeah, I'm best.

683
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:54,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm always seeing as the sarcastic, witty one. So

684
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 2: I'll come in with a little bit of banter and

685
00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 2: then just sit quietly and hopes that no one brings up.

686
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 4: Hold, that's my new family tradition.

687
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 3: It's a good one.

688
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:08,880
Speaker 2: So we see this in so many holiday movies. The

689
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:12,360
Speaker 2: dad is working too hard, neglecting his kids, or his

690
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 2: kids forgets to get the gift, burns the food, which

691
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 2: sounds like this clause is one that's claus. Yeah, he

692
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 2: realizes he has to put in some effort. Even if

693
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 2: you look at Santa Claus. He gets all the credit

694
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 2: for delivering these toys one day a year, but Missus

695
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:32,239
Speaker 2: Claus is doing all the stuff behind the scenes all

696
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:36,040
Speaker 2: the time, thanklessly, and gets no credit.

697
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:36,919
Speaker 3: Yeah.

698
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 2: So in a Bad Mom's Christmas, in which one of

699
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 2: the characters says, your mom, moms don't enjoy, we give joy.

700
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:48,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I find that there's only a handful of a

701
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:50,359
Speaker 1: much more Halloween horror movie.

702
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:50,720
Speaker 3: Person.

703
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 1: Yes, there are a handful of holiday movies I watch

704
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:55,279
Speaker 1: every year, and I find that the plot line is

705
00:35:55,320 --> 00:36:00,160
Speaker 1: always man working too hard, wife is doing all this

706
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:02,400
Speaker 1: stuff in the background and like, one day, you're gonna

707
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:05,320
Speaker 1: be so upset that you miss this time with whoever,

708
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 1: poor Johnny.

709
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 3: And then they do one they get like one gift.

710
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's like, oh, it was the perfect gift.

711
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:14,759
Speaker 1: But a lot of times it was the wife who

712
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 1: said you should have gotten that months ago.

713
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:18,960
Speaker 4: Right, it really is.

714
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:21,319
Speaker 2: I try to watch all of these holiday movies because

715
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:23,640
Speaker 2: I feel like I'm failing because I don't like Christmas

716
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:25,920
Speaker 2: and I've tried to make myself like it, and that

717
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:28,719
Speaker 2: has a lot of emotional trauma baggage and that, and

718
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 2: which is the reason I don't like it. But I

719
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:34,440
Speaker 2: do love watching holiday movies trying to get into.

720
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 4: The spirit and one of and my family watches it too.

721
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 2: My dad's favorite movie is The Santa Claus Yeah, as

722
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:41,080
Speaker 2: we just recently talked about.

723
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:41,400
Speaker 1: But it is.

724
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,799
Speaker 2: Hilarious because he is an awful father, yeah, and the

725
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:47,880
Speaker 2: only redeeming thing is he gets tricked into being Santa Claus,

726
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,400
Speaker 2: who's then again neglects is good because he has to

727
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 2: be Santa Claus. But everything's okay because he's Santa Claus.

728
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 2: Like it's just amazing, And the mom looks like the

729
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 2: bad guy just like in everything else. Yeah, step stepped

730
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 2: out and this one is just a complete idiot portrayed

731
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 2: as an idiot.

732
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:04,920
Speaker 4: Anyway.

733
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:07,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I also like that movie.

734
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:10,919
Speaker 1: But it is funny how it reminds me of There's

735
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 1: this list called the Iceman List. It's about how, if

736
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 1: you rewatch a lot of movies from the eighties, the

737
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:19,319
Speaker 1: bad guy is actually probably right right.

738
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:21,319
Speaker 3: And the mom in that.

739
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:24,239
Speaker 1: Movie, I feel if you had an ex who all

740
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 1: of a sudden gained all this way and looked a

741
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,959
Speaker 1: certain way and was saying, well, the sun is saying

742
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:32,960
Speaker 1: the Santa Claus, I would have some concerns.

743
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:35,760
Speaker 3: Really, I think that's legitimate.

744
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:39,319
Speaker 2: He's not mentally stable. This is how he's trying to

745
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:40,279
Speaker 2: win my child over.

746
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:44,880
Speaker 1: Oh boy, now we're going on a different road. Be

747
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:47,479
Speaker 1: on the lookout for the Santa Claus, the Feminist Movie.

748
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 1: Another thing I wanted to bring up is magazines, because

749
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:58,799
Speaker 1: I've noticed around this time magazines filled with recipes and

750
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:02,319
Speaker 1: life hacks to make it look like pulling off the

751
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:06,279
Speaker 1: holidays is so easy, so it's supposed to look effortless.

752
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:09,760
Speaker 1: And I've also found so many advice pieces and articles

753
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 1: researching for this episode about how to fin all the

754
00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:15,399
Speaker 1: holiday things that you need to fit in on top

755
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:17,919
Speaker 1: of a full time job with children in the mix,

756
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 1: and make it look easy.

757
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:22,920
Speaker 3: And that's part of the equation too. Here.

758
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 1: Not only are we putting in all of this hard work,

759
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:28,439
Speaker 1: we're acting like it's not hard work.

760
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:29,520
Speaker 3: We're hiding it away.

761
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:32,759
Speaker 1: And I feel like this is something as women were

762
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 1: conditioned to not complain, to be graceful under pressure, Otherwise.

763
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 3: You'll be the bad type of emotional. Right.

764
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:42,279
Speaker 2: You need to show that you have it all, and

765
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:46,920
Speaker 2: that means you've gotten all of your holiday the core.

766
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, perfect place.

767
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:51,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, so many movies also about that, about putting up

768
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:54,239
Speaker 1: the usually I find it in movies men do that

769
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 1: part then, but putting up the lights and competing.

770
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:56,880
Speaker 3: With your neighbors.

771
00:38:58,000 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 1: So everything we're talking about in this episode is not

772
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 1: just confined to the home. It can even ripple out

773
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 1: to work and things like planning an office party or

774
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:09,440
Speaker 1: a secret Santa exchange, or for those in the retail

775
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:13,360
Speaker 1: or service industry, dealing with stressed out shoppers or diners

776
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 1: or what have you.

777
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:17,760
Speaker 2: Right, women in general place really high expectations on themselves.

778
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 2: We know this combined with the fact that for a

779
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 2: lot of us we grew up watching our grandmothers and

780
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:25,360
Speaker 2: our mothers doing this holiday labor, and we feel the

781
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 2: need to fill that role, which is.

782
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:29,040
Speaker 4: What you're seem to be doing, Andy, and I refuse

783
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:29,279
Speaker 4: to do.

784
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:32,800
Speaker 2: All of this can be exacerbated by things like seasonal

785
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:37,279
Speaker 2: effective disorder, anxiety or depression, And as I said, a

786
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:39,840
Speaker 2: lot of my own background is that I have a

787
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 2: lot of trauma attached to this time of year.

788
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 4: So I'm like, this is the worst holiday of the

789
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:45,440
Speaker 4: year and I hate.

790
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 2: Everything, but I'm trying to get it together and become

791
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:49,480
Speaker 2: an adult.

792
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:53,839
Speaker 4: And being like I can handle Christmas, I can like it.

793
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:55,760
Speaker 4: My mother, God.

794
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 2: Bless her, she has tried for years because I've never

795
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 2: really liked it, and she tried for years from guilting

796
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 2: me to trying to make everything perfect for me to

797
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:08,719
Speaker 2: get me to like this holiday because she loves it

798
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:10,600
Speaker 2: so much. And of course they are very religious, and

799
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 2: that has a whole different perspective for them as well.

800
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:15,759
Speaker 2: But yeah, I think for me this type of year,

801
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:18,239
Speaker 2: I want to ignore it. And I couldn't imagine what

802
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:21,160
Speaker 2: that would be like as a mother. Sure that just

803
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:23,759
Speaker 2: that terrifies me. I'm like, I'm gonna fail as a

804
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:27,399
Speaker 2: mother if I ever did become one, because I don't

805
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 2: enjoy these holidays. But I've been told as a single person,

806
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 2: if you had kids, you would like this holiday more.

807
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:34,400
Speaker 4: You would understand.

808
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 3: I can see.

809
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:39,719
Speaker 1: I can see how it's both extremely stressful but can

810
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:43,200
Speaker 1: be extremely rewarding to make a child feel that type

811
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:43,680
Speaker 1: of joy.

812
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 3: I know.

813
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:47,440
Speaker 2: There's when my siblings who are divorced competition and who

814
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:50,600
Speaker 2: can give the most or.

815
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 4: Make them the happiest.

816
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right about that. That as well.

817
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:58,719
Speaker 3: It's poof, that's one word for it. We do have

818
00:40:58,760 --> 00:40:59,600
Speaker 3: some advice.

819
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:03,960
Speaker 1: We try to end on advice usually, but vers we

820
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 1: have one more quick break forward from our sponsor.

821
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:22,920
Speaker 3: And we're back. Thank you sponsor.

822
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:25,799
Speaker 1: And yes, there are some tips out there if the

823
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:27,719
Speaker 1: holidays are something that's stressful for you.

824
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 3: Yes, here we go.

825
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:31,439
Speaker 2: So my people, we'll all stress stress out. So take

826
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:34,400
Speaker 2: time for self care and then that might be whatever

827
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:38,280
Speaker 2: you wanted to be reading, yoga, meditation, making time for friends,

828
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 2: or for me sitting in a fiddle position in the

829
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 2: corner waiting for the season.

830
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:44,440
Speaker 4: To go away in the darkness.

831
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 3: Very specific.

832
00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:49,399
Speaker 4: I'm just saying, hey, you know it works for you.

833
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:53,680
Speaker 1: Experts also recommend stepping back from social media if you

834
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:57,239
Speaker 1: find yourself feeling stressed. We've talked about before. Playing that

835
00:41:57,239 --> 00:42:00,759
Speaker 1: comparison game is never good. It can make you feel

836
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 1: like everyone is having a better holiday than you.

837
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:05,880
Speaker 3: Everyone did a quote better job than you.

838
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 4: Love the comparisons.

839
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:10,719
Speaker 2: If you're not the one behind the holiday stuff, find

840
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 2: ways to support that person unasked. Stock up on wrapping supplies,

841
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 2: help with gift buying and wrapping, handle.

842
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 4: The cars through the dishes.

843
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 2: If a child is in the mix, figure out if

844
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:22,480
Speaker 2: they're going to need to bring dishes to school or

845
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:25,239
Speaker 2: something like that. Coordinate with the extended family, and of

846
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:27,960
Speaker 2: course notice and express your gratitude.

847
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:31,440
Speaker 4: I mean, it is Christmas, tis the seasons.

848
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 1: The season for that stuff. Yes, and again I do

849
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 1: want to say I actually, really, really really love cooking.

850
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:43,720
Speaker 1: I love the decorations. I honestly think if I didn't

851
00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:47,000
Speaker 1: do it one year, my brothers would not care. They

852
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:49,239
Speaker 1: wouldn't care at all except about the food. But like,

853
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:52,040
Speaker 1: the decorations is not their thing. But I really like it.

854
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:56,160
Speaker 1: But I don't like that expectation that I'm the one

855
00:42:56,200 --> 00:43:00,360
Speaker 1: that will do it. Planning this big meal every Betty's

856
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:02,560
Speaker 1: favorite thing, although again I have started to cut back

857
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 1: on that. Yeah, and some things have prepped days before.

858
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:10,680
Speaker 1: And also I work and they don't give us the

859
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:14,880
Speaker 1: day before Thanksgiving off getting all the ingredients, setting the table.

860
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:17,480
Speaker 1: It is a lot, but I have turned it into

861
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:19,359
Speaker 1: a time that I get to spend with my mom

862
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:22,880
Speaker 1: and we listen to music and we drink wine and

863
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 1: we talk.

864
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:27,680
Speaker 3: And I like it. It's one of my favorite things.

865
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:30,360
Speaker 1: I think that's my favorite thing about the holidays, spending

866
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:33,080
Speaker 1: that time with my mom. It still sucks that if

867
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:36,040
Speaker 1: one year I decided I really didn't want to do it,

868
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:37,960
Speaker 1: it wouldn't happen, or either my mom would do it,

869
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 1: and then I'd feel guilty about it. But my notorious

870
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 1: hatred of doing the dishes has led to me not

871
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:48,640
Speaker 1: doing them anymore. My brother and his fiance do them,

872
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:52,439
Speaker 1: so that is it, Honestly is usually if I hate

873
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:53,960
Speaker 1: doing the dishes.

874
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:55,560
Speaker 4: Is he doing it because his fiance suggested it?

875
00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 3: I don't know. I have no way of knowing without.

876
00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:03,680
Speaker 1: Asking, but I mean he in particular, he knows how

877
00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:05,520
Speaker 1: much I hate doing the dishes because We've got a

878
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 1: huge fight about it one year, So.

879
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:10,360
Speaker 3: I'm glad that that's gone away.

880
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:14,759
Speaker 1: And yeah, until we start recognizing and valuing the work

881
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:18,640
Speaker 1: women do, this is going to be a thing, right.

882
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 2: And for those who have recognized, yes, that this is

883
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:25,840
Speaker 2: what women do and have taken up part of the responsibility,

884
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:26,359
Speaker 2: good job.

885
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:27,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, proud of you.

886
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:30,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I'm proud of you women that were doing

887
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:30,840
Speaker 3: it all.

888
00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:35,600
Speaker 4: Right, and yeah, speak up, encourage others, be an example.

889
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:40,480
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, and we would love to hear LGBTQ plus

890
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:44,839
Speaker 1: stories as well, because a lot of this was specifically

891
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:49,719
Speaker 1: heterosexual situation, so right, Yeah, love to know how it

892
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:54,000
Speaker 1: plays out in different types of relationships. But that brings

893
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 1: us to the end of this, our emotional labor holiday.

894
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:00,640
Speaker 4: Happy holidays, Holidays.

895
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:03,160
Speaker 3: Hopefully they are not stressful.

896
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:07,160
Speaker 1: They're enjoyable and more than a freaking fourth of you

897
00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:08,279
Speaker 1: can relax.

898
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:10,839
Speaker 3: That blew my mind. It makes sense.

899
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:14,080
Speaker 4: But wow, if you want to hide, you can hide

900
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:14,319
Speaker 4: with me.

901
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:18,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, and if you want any company, Samantha, I'm always

902
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:20,440
Speaker 1: available if you don't want me around.

903
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 3: Though.

904
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:24,160
Speaker 2: That weird thing that I start watching holiday movies, but

905
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:28,320
Speaker 2: they're not really holiday movies. So you know the fourth

906
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:31,440
Speaker 2: about die Hard, die Hard, you know, I hope we

907
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:33,560
Speaker 2: have to talk about that. But then Harry Potter for

908
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:35,440
Speaker 2: some reason puts Potter, it's.

909
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:36,880
Speaker 3: Both Halloween and Chriss.

910
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, fine, yeah, I do that.

911
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:41,400
Speaker 2: And then I do watch horror movies just to be

912
00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:45,360
Speaker 2: angry about not angry, but to put my emotions into something.

913
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:46,960
Speaker 4: And I'm like, there we go.

914
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:49,480
Speaker 2: Now I'm gonna do more destruction now with all of

915
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:50,480
Speaker 2: these horror films.

916
00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 1: There are a lot of Christmas harror movies. I'm just

917
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:53,560
Speaker 1: gonna put that out there.

918
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:54,280
Speaker 4: I haven't watched.

919
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:57,480
Speaker 1: I might be on a panel about that actually coming up.

920
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 1: Somebody asked me, do you have any examples? Twenty examples? Okay,

921
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:04,720
Speaker 1: I think you might be good for this, all right. Anyway,

922
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 1: I did want to read some listener mail to close up,

923
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:10,040
Speaker 1: Everett wrote, I was really excited to see the episode

924
00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:12,520
Speaker 1: about farming in your podcast feed. I love the show,

925
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:14,560
Speaker 1: by the way, Oh thank you. I was excited because

926
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:16,440
Speaker 1: that's what I do. I'm still in school, but for

927
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:18,279
Speaker 1: a few weeks in the summer and on saturdays in

928
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 1: the academic year, I work with the Food Project. We're

929
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:24,120
Speaker 1: based out of Massachusetts in the North Shore and Greater Boston.

930
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:26,480
Speaker 1: We do a lot of work related to the stuff

931
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:29,279
Speaker 1: you talked about, food justice and social justice, plus a

932
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:32,120
Speaker 1: youth component. A big part to me is how we

933
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:34,560
Speaker 1: bring people from across these communities and sure we have

934
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 1: a diverse group. Every summer, we hire thirty six new

935
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 1: high school aged people in both our regions for six weeks.

936
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 1: They work together on our farms. They could be from

937
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:47,319
Speaker 1: a homogeneous sheltered community or a more urban one where

938
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:50,640
Speaker 1: gardening isn't common, or any other background, and we meet

939
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:53,080
Speaker 1: people that we wouldn't otherwise since the system doesn't tend

940
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:56,840
Speaker 1: to make communication between these places very easy. I love

941
00:46:57,040 --> 00:46:59,880
Speaker 1: the Food Project and I love the people. I consider

942
00:46:59,920 --> 00:47:03,040
Speaker 1: it like family. We educate communities and the youth in

943
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:06,320
Speaker 1: our programs, and there's lots of opportunities for leadership by youth.

944
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:10,120
Speaker 1: We build raisedbed gardens and urban communities that don't have

945
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:11,920
Speaker 1: a lot of access to fresh food, as well as

946
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:15,880
Speaker 1: distributing food at hunger relief organizations or through our farmer's market.

947
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:18,320
Speaker 1: We've done work with state programs to make farmer's markets

948
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:21,560
Speaker 1: more affordable too. I could genuinely keep talking for three hours,

949
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:23,239
Speaker 1: so I'll leave a link to our website if you're

950
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:26,759
Speaker 1: interested and that link is Thefoodproject dot org.

951
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:30,400
Speaker 3: That sounds like you're doing amazing work. Yeah, that's amazing.

952
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:34,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, food justice is something that's really important to me.

953
00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:38,680
Speaker 1: This sounds really cool and we appreciate you sharing it.

954
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:43,080
Speaker 1: Ruth wrote, I just listened to your Female Monsters show

955
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:45,120
Speaker 1: and I thought of a couple of characters who are

956
00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:48,360
Speaker 1: tangentially related to the topic. Neither are truly monsters, but

957
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:50,960
Speaker 1: they fit the parameters of a couple of the topics mentioned.

958
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:54,759
Speaker 1: The first is a character whose name escapes me, but

959
00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:57,520
Speaker 1: she was played by Isabella Russellini in the movie Death

960
00:47:57,560 --> 00:47:58,120
Speaker 1: Becomes Herr.

961
00:47:58,239 --> 00:48:01,640
Speaker 2: I've been thinking about this movie for so because I

962
00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:03,719
Speaker 2: can't I was like, why haven't we mentioned it? And

963
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:05,200
Speaker 2: then there was then I thought it back. I was like,

964
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:08,719
Speaker 2: there are a lot of problems. Oh, I haven't seen

965
00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:10,880
Speaker 2: it within that movie, and I think it's satire.

966
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:12,839
Speaker 4: It is shied as well.

967
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:16,120
Speaker 2: But this whole becoming young, staying youngest thing, beautiful saint,

968
00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:19,880
Speaker 2: then like, this is very problematic, and of course it

969
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:24,440
Speaker 2: makes the male character the hero sure of all, the

970
00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:26,000
Speaker 2: whole thing kind of makes the met look at bout.

971
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:27,520
Speaker 4: Yes, but it is a really good movie.

972
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:29,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I would have I mean a lot of

973
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:34,200
Speaker 1: the monsters we mentioned their ultimate goal was youth and beauty,

974
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:36,520
Speaker 1: and yes, that's why they did the things, the monstrous

975
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 1: things they did.

976
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:38,520
Speaker 4: It's a perfect example.

977
00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:39,959
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll have to check it out.

978
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:41,160
Speaker 4: You haven't seen it?

979
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:47,280
Speaker 3: No, my, oh my, Okay. Anyway, Ruth continues.

980
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:50,879
Speaker 1: About that she is the character who gives two women

981
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:53,319
Speaker 1: played by Goldie Hawn and Meryl Streep, the power of

982
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:56,480
Speaker 1: immortality and eternal youth at a great price. Of course,

983
00:48:56,719 --> 00:48:58,680
Speaker 1: while not strictly speaking a monster, she plays in the

984
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:01,319
Speaker 1: fears of becoming old and ugly, losing their beauty. She

985
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:05,120
Speaker 1: gives them an quote olixer to drink, and things do

986
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:09,520
Speaker 1: not work out as they expect. I imagine there was

987
00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:12,480
Speaker 1: an unexpected moral in the story, But the evil beautiful

988
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:15,879
Speaker 1: which remains the second is more mundane. But it makes

989
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:17,760
Speaker 1: me stop and think about the naming of the character

990
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:21,719
Speaker 1: and the TV show cheers the most terrifying thing of all.

991
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:22,480
Speaker 3: I'm just kidding.

992
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:27,000
Speaker 1: Fraser's wife is named Alilith. She is considered cold and calculating.

993
00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:29,319
Speaker 1: She is a psychiatrist and very good at scaring the

994
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:32,760
Speaker 1: crep out of all of Fraser's friends. She's very pale

995
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:36,200
Speaker 1: with very dark hair, played by the amazing bb Newarth.

996
00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:38,239
Speaker 3: She's not a true villain, but she is.

997
00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:41,280
Speaker 1: Portrayed in that light because she is different from other women,

998
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:44,240
Speaker 1: because she wants things her way, and because she's still beautiful.

999
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:47,480
Speaker 1: Is the naming of the character symbolic. I don't know,

1000
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:49,120
Speaker 1: but it gives me pause to think about a couple

1001
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:52,680
Speaker 1: of characters I had otherwise passed by. Oh also, there

1002
00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:55,040
Speaker 1: was a book written by an author named George MacDonald

1003
00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:57,720
Speaker 1: called Alilith, which was a novel about this evil woman

1004
00:49:57,760 --> 00:50:01,280
Speaker 1: from the Biblical story. She's quite a monster in that one.

1005
00:50:01,719 --> 00:50:03,480
Speaker 1: I love the lift yeah, forever and ever.

1006
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:05,560
Speaker 2: And I didn't realize because I didn't watch the second

1007
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:07,200
Speaker 2: season and I just didn't pay attention.

1008
00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:10,560
Speaker 4: Uh, Sabrina the new one, Yeah, Lilith is one.

1009
00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:11,320
Speaker 3: Of the main characters.

1010
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:14,759
Speaker 2: And I kind of completely forgot it completely, And I

1011
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:16,040
Speaker 2: was like, oh yeallo.

1012
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:18,080
Speaker 3: A friend of mine brought that up to me.

1013
00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:21,400
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, yeah, completely, like because I hadn't

1014
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:23,880
Speaker 2: watched it in so long the first season and then

1015
00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:26,719
Speaker 2: I never watched the second and I just recently took

1016
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:28,680
Speaker 2: it back up and I was like, oh, oh.

1017
00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I have got to say, I

1018
00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:36,720
Speaker 1: am loving all of these uh horror, and yeah.

1019
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:38,320
Speaker 3: Please keep sending in suggestions.

1020
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:39,719
Speaker 4: I was gonna say, were gonna talk about this until

1021
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:41,319
Speaker 4: next Halloween? I love it.

1022
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:44,000
Speaker 1: I would absolutely do you know I would? And I

1023
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:46,839
Speaker 1: always love a good recommendation for something to check out, right,

1024
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:50,160
Speaker 1: So please keep sending those are away.

1025
00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:52,600
Speaker 2: Right, just so you know, because we did have the

1026
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:55,240
Speaker 2: conversation about cuffing. We've had a couple of text talking

1027
00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:58,080
Speaker 2: to us about cuffing and other people other podcasts talking

1028
00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:00,839
Speaker 2: about it as well. As we got to mention when

1029
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:03,080
Speaker 2: they were showing us a whole list of the seasons,

1030
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:06,080
Speaker 2: and it shows like fall is cuffing season and this

1031
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:06,680
Speaker 2: is what this is.

1032
00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:08,840
Speaker 4: It was really cute. I'll have to repost it, but I.

1033
00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 3: Liked it a lot.

1034
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:12,600
Speaker 2: While we're here, we want to do some shout outs

1035
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:16,200
Speaker 2: while we were thinking about stress and loving each other,

1036
00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:19,200
Speaker 2: and so the season best Forever to Pods, which is

1037
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:23,239
Speaker 2: a podcast by Alyssa who talks about friendships and the

1038
00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:24,359
Speaker 2: great stories behind them.

1039
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:26,040
Speaker 4: And it's so great because I think it's such a.

1040
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:28,680
Speaker 2: Different take on how to maintain or just talk about

1041
00:51:28,719 --> 00:51:31,720
Speaker 2: amazing friendships that have happened or she brings on different

1042
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:33,640
Speaker 2: guests talking about different subjects, and then I think it's

1043
00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:37,120
Speaker 2: really cute. And also some kind of brown podcast, which

1044
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:40,640
Speaker 2: is Natalie who identifies herself as indigenous black women, talks

1045
00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:43,800
Speaker 2: about race and ethnicity and being multi racial in the US,

1046
00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:47,840
Speaker 2: including interracial adoption which is rare, and she's also highlighted

1047
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:52,240
Speaker 2: November I know it's over almost as the Native American

1048
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:56,000
Speaker 2: Awareness Month, and she is brought in a whole series

1049
00:51:56,040 --> 00:52:00,000
Speaker 2: called Red November and bringing in different guests and having awesome, awesome,

1050
00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:01,640
Speaker 2: awesome episodes about that.

1051
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:04,359
Speaker 4: So shout out to y'all. Yeah, we love it, Thank you.

1052
00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:08,200
Speaker 1: Yes, thank you, and thanks to the listeners who wrote in.

1053
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:09,959
Speaker 1: If you would like to write to us, we would

1054
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:12,200
Speaker 1: love to hear from you. You can email us at Stuffmedia,

1055
00:52:12,239 --> 00:52:15,040
Speaker 1: mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can also find

1056
00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:18,759
Speaker 1: us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast or on Instagram

1057
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:22,000
Speaker 1: at stuff Mom Never Told You. Thanks as always to

1058
00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:24,080
Speaker 1: our super producer Andrew Howard.

1059
00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:27,319
Speaker 3: Thanks to you for listening, and we hope a lot

1060
00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:29,360
Speaker 3: more good things are coming away. That's Boren's thing. I

1061
00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:29,960
Speaker 3: don't know why I.

1062
00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:32,879
Speaker 1: Did it, but hey, go check out saber pods while

1063
00:52:33,160 --> 00:52:33,720
Speaker 1: go say.

1064
00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:37,759
Speaker 4: Up sab, brain stuff, all the things I love A lot.

1065
00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:39,640
Speaker 3: More good things are coming here, lesurely.

1066
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:42,680
Speaker 2: I hope that the holidays are not as stressful, and

1067
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:45,839
Speaker 2: if it is, that you have a chance to take

1068
00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:47,720
Speaker 2: in what you need to rest.

1069
00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:53,800
Speaker 3: Yes, that's a nice sentiment. Stuff Mom Never Told You

1070
00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:56,000
Speaker 3: is a protection of iHeartRadio's house. Stuff Works.

1071
00:52:56,200 --> 00:52:59,600
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1072
00:52:59,680 --> 00:52:59,719
Speaker 1: or

1073
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:01,480
Speaker 3: Wherever where you listen to your favorite shows.