Speaker 1: One thing we have to address in this theory that
Speaker 1: Brian Coburger did not act alone.
Speaker 2: I don't buy it.
Speaker 1: Nothing has convinced me otherwise yet. But believe me, if
Speaker 1: there is another assailant, I want them behind bars. Now.
Speaker 1: I'm hearing Brian Coburger can sue Sue who look.
Speaker 2: At the grub hub truck. They're hugging people.
Speaker 1: And talking to people. That's very, very easy to transfer
Speaker 1: DNA right there. Brian Coburger's casual conversation with a clerk,
Speaker 1: a conversation about the murders.
Speaker 3: He just committed, I'm forgetting harder and harder to commit
Speaker 3: because people are getting a really, really good at solving themes.
Speaker 4: And we're going to go help other families solve their cases.
Speaker 4: We'll close those gaps between funding and a lab that's
Speaker 4: sitting there waiting for funding or not just going to
Speaker 4: take back and just wait for stuff to happen. We're
Speaker 4: going to make things happen.
Speaker 1: Joining us Tonight, Crime Stories investigative reporter Dave Matt Dave,
Speaker 1: what's the latest.
Speaker 5: Book, Nancy.
Speaker 6: This is shocking information coming out of the documentary The
Speaker 6: Idaho Murders College Nightmare. It's on Netflix. Right now, directed
Speaker 6: by sky Boardman, and there's an interview with surviving roommate
Speaker 6: Bethany Funk. She's the woman who came eye to eye
Speaker 6: with the bushy haired stranger who is fleeing the scene
Speaker 6: of the massacre at four twenty in the morning. Okay.
Speaker 6: Bethany Funk tells police that Kayleie Gonzalvez got really weirded
Speaker 6: out when she took her dog Murphy out to do
Speaker 6: his business in the days prior to the murders. She
Speaker 6: tells Bethany Funk that while she's out there with Murphy alone,
Speaker 6: she saw a man in the tree line staring at her. Now,
Speaker 6: it's different. You know, you live in a neighborhood for
Speaker 6: a period time, Nancy. You go outside, you see a
Speaker 6: neighbor or whatever, you wave at him, right, Hey, how
Speaker 6: you doing that? Didn't happen? This encounter with this person,
Speaker 6: this man she described staring at her, happened in such
Speaker 6: a way that is so unnerved Kaylei Gonzavez that she
Speaker 6: shared this with Bethany Funk. Now at this point in time.
Speaker 6: The documentary presents this as it bothered Kayleie enough that
Speaker 6: she did report it before the murders. To her roommate,
Speaker 6: and now the possibility that she is being stalked or
Speaker 6: watched comes to the forefront. Who was the target of
Speaker 6: the attack by Brian Coburger? Was it Kaylee Gonzavez? Was
Speaker 6: Brian Coberger the bushy haired man staring at her while
Speaker 6: she walked her dog?
Speaker 1: Nate Eaton, He's director East Idaho News.
Speaker 2: Nate, what happens now, well, Nancy.
Speaker 7: Brian Coburger, of course we know, filed his motion for
Speaker 7: a new trial, saying that he is innocent, that he
Speaker 7: didn't obtain justice, that he was basically fooled into pleading
Speaker 7: guilty a year ago. The judge in the case has
Speaker 7: received the motion and has just recently this week ruled
Speaker 7: that Brian Coberger will now get a new attorney to
Speaker 7: assist him with the proceedings moving forward. So what will
Speaker 7: likely happen is a hearing will be scheduled. Coburger will
Speaker 7: appear there with likely the counsel he's had. He's claiming
Speaker 7: that they've been ineffective, that they've been in effective counsel
Speaker 7: and he needs new attorneys. If they agree to that
Speaker 7: and decide not to fight it, which I don't know
Speaker 7: why they would fight it. They could say, you're right,
Speaker 7: We're going to let him go on his way. A
Speaker 7: new attorney comes on the case, then it becomes a
Speaker 7: matter of whether he has actual legal standing to carry
Speaker 7: this forward. And that's when Judge Stephen Hipler will have
Speaker 7: to decide, Okay, yeah, maybe he proves a point here
Speaker 7: here or here or not. He'll go through the plea
Speaker 7: agreement that was entered. He'll go through the things that
Speaker 7: Brian Coberger signed. I know we've talked about here on
Speaker 7: your program, Nancy. The plea agreement he signed a year ago.
Speaker 7: He verbally agreed to it. The judge was very specific
Speaker 7: in asking him, do you understand this? Are you accepting responsibility?
Speaker 7: You know, he very much laid out point by point
Speaker 7: by point, and then the judge will ultimately decide, Okay, yes,
Speaker 7: there's enough to move it forward or no. I imagine Brian
Speaker 7: Coberger will appeal this. I imagine this will go all
Speaker 7: the way to the Supreme Court and then they will decide.
Speaker 7: And then once it's there, once the Supreme Court has decided, Nope,
Speaker 7: it's not going to go any further.
Speaker 2: He's he's stuck.
Speaker 7: I mean, he can't do anything further unless a significant
Speaker 7: new evidence comes out down the line. If the Supreme
Speaker 7: Court or the Court of Appeals or the local judge decides, okay,
Speaker 7: he's got a point here, then it's a whole new game.
Speaker 7: Then we prepare for trial. Nancy, I have been to
Speaker 7: the prison where Brian Coburger is staying. There's a couple
Speaker 7: of different prisons. He's in the maximum security institution. Then
Speaker 7: there's the general population, you could call it institution. I've
Speaker 7: been through there. That is a normal, quote unquote normal
Speaker 7: prison where the inmates have jobs, they make license plates.
Speaker 7: There's a wood shop where they can actually go in
Speaker 7: and build things, and they can put in a wood floor.
Speaker 7: I mean, these are the average sort of inmates that
Speaker 7: don't cause any problems. And within that prison there's different levels.
Speaker 7: There's you know, minor security, medium and maximum. Brian Koberger
Speaker 7: is in a completely different facility down the road. This
Speaker 7: is maximum security. Because he is host so high profile,
Speaker 7: he is likely they haven't released much about him because
Speaker 7: everybody wants to know. But we assume he's in isolation.
Speaker 7: He is not out mingling with the other people in prison,
Speaker 7: he's not out working. We don't assume because these are
Speaker 7: some of the issues that he brought up in his
Speaker 7: filing that prison wasn't like what he was told it
Speaker 7: would be like. So if he was told, oh, it's
Speaker 7: going to be like this, you're making license plates, you're
Speaker 7: in the workshop, you're making wooden things, you're going to school,
Speaker 7: getting an education, maybe that's what he thought it would be.
Speaker 7: But this is the highest profile criminal in Idaho in
Speaker 7: the nation, one of the highest They're not gonna let
Speaker 7: him out because you would imagine that other inmates in
Speaker 7: this maximum security institute are gonna have something to say
Speaker 7: to him or perhaps something to do to him. So
Speaker 7: early on when he was first booked, that leaked prison
Speaker 7: security footage showed him in a cell walking around, pacing.
Speaker 7: He had his cot, his bed, he has a toilet,
Speaker 7: he's got a sink. He's able to order items from
Speaker 7: the commissary, which could be anything from soda to candy
Speaker 7: to crackers, whatever, a TV. But I would imagine he's
Speaker 7: in there by himself twenty three hours a day. He
Speaker 7: probably gets out one hour a day, maybe thirty minutes,
Speaker 7: to go out to the wreck yard, which would be
Speaker 7: a maybe a twelve x twelve fifteen by fifteen concrete
Speaker 7: walled area with a fence on the roof, and you
Speaker 7: get to walk around. There might be a ball out there.
Speaker 7: There might be a pole with a volleyball that you
Speaker 7: can hit around. I mean, very very simple type of things.
Speaker 7: Many would argue he shouldn't even get that. So there's
Speaker 7: that facility now if he were on death row, which
Speaker 7: if this goes to trial, and if he's convicted, and
Speaker 7: if he gets the death penalty, there's a separate area.
Speaker 7: Once the governor signs the order for it to put
Speaker 7: someone to death, that the inmates then go into a
Speaker 7: separate building. So for now he's in the maximum security prison,
Speaker 7: not having much social interaction. He complained earlier that he
Speaker 7: wasn't getting the food he wanted, that people were taunting
Speaker 7: him through the events. They were able to yell things
Speaker 7: and say things to him. And I would imagine anytime
Speaker 7: he might have to walk through the area where other
Speaker 7: inmates see him, I would not doubt for one second
Speaker 7: if they have words to say to him.
Speaker 8: You know.
Speaker 7: The Netflix special has a lot of people talking about
Speaker 7: the Idaho Four, the four victims who tragically lost their
Speaker 7: lives in this I think that the timing they released
Speaker 7: this Netflix show basically a year after the plea agreement.
Speaker 7: I think there was some purposeful timing in that Brian
Speaker 7: Coberger also had a limited of time to file his
Speaker 7: motion for post conviction relief, and so he had to
Speaker 7: get that in. So the timing just happened to be
Speaker 7: there together. I will say that there are a lot
Speaker 7: of people here in Idaho who I've spoken with who
Speaker 7: just want him to go away. They're done, They're done
Speaker 7: with them. They realize that the families have a say,
Speaker 7: and obviously that is important. Some of the families don't
Speaker 7: want this to proceed. They want him to go away.
Speaker 7: Other people, though, that I speak with, say okay, yeah,
Speaker 7: if he wants a trial, sure let's have the trial.
Speaker 7: What evidence does he have? What more is there out
Speaker 7: there that we don't know about. I mean, in one aspect,
Speaker 7: if you do have the trial, at least at that point,
Speaker 7: the prosecution and the defense, whatever evidence they might have,
Speaker 7: they bring it all out. It's all there in one
Speaker 7: six week, two months, three month trial. It all comes out,
Speaker 7: so that it's not every four weeks new evidence, new
Speaker 7: phone calls, new recordings, whatever it is like how it's
Speaker 7: been the past year. I mean, this might continue for
Speaker 7: another five to ten years. Either way, if we get
Speaker 7: a trial, they're gonna have. If he gets new attorneys,
Speaker 7: the attorneys are going to have to go through all
Speaker 7: of the discovery, the state will have to prepare a
Speaker 7: case there wouldn't and if it's a death penalty, there
Speaker 7: wouldn't be a trial at least for another year or two.
Speaker 7: So you've got all those years the victims have to
Speaker 7: go through this all again. If there's not a trial,
Speaker 7: there will still be people out there saying that there
Speaker 7: needs to be. So it's kind of an interesting spot.
Speaker 7: It's just very sad about how this affects the true victims,
Speaker 7: the families of these poor students, and also you know
Speaker 7: the taxpayers. Eight million dollars plus is what has been
Speaker 7: spent on this case so far, far more than that,
Speaker 7: I imagine, and it'll continue to be spent. So for now,
Speaker 7: we wait and see Nancy when the next tiering will
Speaker 7: be and what will happen. If Coburger will show up
Speaker 7: and actually speak read his brief, he might have more
Speaker 7: to say if he kind of takes upon the approach
Speaker 7: and I'm going to represent myself, which would be interesting
Speaker 7: to see, or if he's more quiet like how he
Speaker 7: has been at previous hearings, and he lets his attorneys,
Speaker 7: whether they're no longer his attorneys speak or the new
Speaker 7: attorneys we'll see, and then Judge Hipler will likely lay
Speaker 7: out a timeline and he could issue a written order
Speaker 7: after the fact saying denied, or he could decide to
Speaker 7: advance it further up and call for more hearings.
Speaker 1: Joining us now Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of
Speaker 1: Blood Beneath My Fate on Amazon, star of a hit
Speaker 1: podcast Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan, but for our purposes,
Speaker 1: he is a death investigator with over ten thousand death
Speaker 1: scenes of all sorts under his belt. Okay, Joe Scott.
Speaker 2: What do you make of that?
Speaker 5: Nancy, I got to tell you, I'm not necessarily shocked
Speaker 5: by this news. I kind of felt like that it
Speaker 5: was going to be coming down the pike. It's I
Speaker 5: think that I don't know if it necessarily took us
Speaker 5: all by surprise. However, I didn't necessarily expect it to
Speaker 5: happen this soon, and so I'm wondering. I'm wondering exactly
Speaker 5: what kind of advice is being whispered in his ear
Speaker 5: right now or is it just him thinking about it
Speaker 5: as he's sitting around trying to understand what his next
Speaker 5: moves are in a place that he does not want
Speaker 5: to be. So I don't know if this is just
Speaker 5: a waste of time at this point in time. I
Speaker 5: can tell you this though, based upon just statements made
Speaker 5: by the Middlemans. We've heard a lot about DNA that
Speaker 5: was found on the knife sheath, right, how many times
Speaker 5: have we heard that the Middlemans indicate that there is
Speaker 5: far more DNA and biological evidence that has been recovered.
Speaker 5: So yeah, I mean, he's sitting there cooling his heels
Speaker 5: at this point in time. But you talk about a
Speaker 5: tough hill to climb, because we're not just talking about
Speaker 5: just maybe a single point on that snap on that knife. Now,
Speaker 5: they're alluding to the fact that there are many more
Speaker 5: other samples from the scene, and you know, they're not
Speaker 5: just going to say this just to be saying something.
Speaker 5: What they're implying is that these items have been tied
Speaker 5: back to him, however many there are. And the thing
Speaker 5: about DNA is that when you get results from that,
Speaker 5: those numbers suddenly become exponential, and that in and of
Speaker 5: itself is a problem for him, because that makes it
Speaker 5: tougher and tougher to defeat.
Speaker 2: Joining us.
Speaker 1: Now doctor Bethany Marshall where now it's psycho Alys out
Speaker 1: of the la jurisdiction. She is the author of deal Breakers.
Speaker 1: You can see on her on Hulu, on Peacock, on Netflix,
Speaker 1: brand new hit podcast on The Catch with Doctor Bethany Marshall.
Speaker 1: You can find her at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com.
Speaker 1: Okay hit at Bethany thoughts.
Speaker 8: Well, first of all, Coburger is obsessive. We know that
Speaker 8: from his history, from his actions. You know he kept
Speaker 8: a lot of contact information on his phone of other women.
Speaker 8: We know he probably stoked the Moscow for We know
Speaker 8: also that he surveiled the house. I mean, he's meticulous.
Speaker 8: He used gloves, he tried to get rid of the
Speaker 8: garbage from his home. So everything is thought out. Think
Speaker 8: about a perpetrator who actually goes to a criminal justice
Speaker 8: program as a precursor for committing a crime. Somebody who
Speaker 8: actually sends out a survey asking how did you feel
Speaker 8: during the commission of the crime. This is somebody who
Speaker 8: lives in their heads. So what does that tell me
Speaker 8: about why he may have withdrawn the plea deal. It
Speaker 8: tells me that this gives him another opportunity to obsess,
Speaker 8: to perseverate, to tell his story. Also, he's been thinking
Speaker 8: a lot now that he's in solitary confinement. He only
Speaker 8: bays twice to day when he goes out, it's in
Speaker 8: a cage, he has access to the law library. That's
Speaker 8: a lot of time to think. So this would be
Speaker 8: not only consistent with his baseline personality, but it's also
Speaker 8: consistent with the profile of somebody who's sociopathic. I've never
Speaker 8: met him or examined him, but sociopaths tend to convince
Speaker 8: themselves of their own reality. Whatever they think is true
Speaker 8: becomes true. So he might, you know, be telling himself,
Speaker 8: I didn't really do that, or I wasn't served up
Speaker 8: justice in court, and you know now is going to
Speaker 8: be my day in court. And the third factor, you know,
Speaker 8: we have this saying that you know, psychotics build castles.
Speaker 8: We have the saying neurotics build castles and the sky
Speaker 8: psychotics live in them. He may be living in his
Speaker 8: own delusional castle where he believes he has come up
Speaker 8: with a very reasonable defense, and he's grandiose. He's better
Speaker 8: than the attorneys and he's going to handle his defense himself.
Speaker 8: I find it fascinating that Coburger has withdrawn the police
Speaker 8: for two reasons. I believe he was a budding serial killer.
Speaker 8: And one of the things we know about serial killers
Speaker 8: is that they and people who commit homicide and domestic
Speaker 8: homicide in general, especially if there's a sexually motivated aspect
Speaker 8: of the crime, they want to relive the crime. They
Speaker 8: collect fetishes. Scott Peterson drove to the bay, they surveil
Speaker 8: the area where they dumped the body. I mean, there's
Speaker 8: a lot of reliving, and going to court would be
Speaker 8: yet another opportunity to relive the crime. Now, remember these
Speaker 8: crimes do tend to be sexually motivated. He can only
Speaker 8: sit in his solitary confinement and masturbate and live in
Speaker 8: his head metaphorically for so many hours a day. I mean,
Speaker 8: it's got to stop. In fact, one of the things
Speaker 8: I see with sex addicts in my practice, especially if
Speaker 8: there's an aggressive component if they watch BDSM porn or
Speaker 8: sadism towards victims, is they like to prolong ejaculation as
Speaker 8: long as possible, and other words, to live in a
Speaker 8: state of arousal and there's only so much material in
Speaker 8: your own head, you know, if you're living in solitary confinement.
Speaker 8: So going to court might be another way to collect material,
Speaker 8: you know, to see women sitting in the court, to
Speaker 8: see people crying, which should be feed into sexual sadism,
Speaker 8: to go over the details of the crime. So he
Speaker 8: might be, you know, tired of his own fantasy world
Speaker 8: and needing to enter another.
Speaker 9: Mhm, ran downstairs, Yes, I can hear, you can hear everything.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure.
Speaker 9: I heard a run down stairs fast. And then I
Speaker 9: heard Murphy farking a lot, okay, And then I heard
Speaker 9: her going to the back I think it was the bathroom,
Speaker 9: and then remember her stopping, and I just freagard this
Speaker 9: guy's voice and I didn't recognize saying you're gonna be okay,
Speaker 9: to help you. But it wasn't like I don't know
Speaker 9: how to explain it, like, it wasn't in like a
Speaker 9: nice way. It was like a weird wave, like a weird.
Speaker 10: Tone, You're gonna be okay, I'm gonna help you. Yeah,
Speaker 10: And you didn't hear anything from Kaylee anymore.
Speaker 9: No, I didn't hear anything. And then Nuddy about Murphy, and.
Speaker 10: Then Murphy's a dog.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then I went outside go to bed, and
Speaker 1: she was so, you see what's happening here? All the
Speaker 1: speculation about the dog. He had been there before, and
Speaker 1: he had befriended the dog. He knew Murphy, and Murphy
Speaker 1: was part. Murphy the dog was part of the scenario
Speaker 1: that night.
Speaker 10: Uh, she's saying this money on floor. There's a guy
Speaker 10: black man was in there. She recognized him. She and
Speaker 10: she heard girl screaming upstairs. She got scared and walked
Speaker 10: herself in the room and then screaming all stop. She's
Speaker 10: pretty sure that this masked person went out the back
Speaker 10: and right out getting off the information.
Speaker 11: She knows only two girls.
Speaker 10: In the UK there haven't told her who's deceased or
Speaker 10: anything that they just have four people that are on
Speaker 10: account of slore right now, which.
Speaker 12: Okay?
Speaker 7: Who who's dog? Who owns a dog?
Speaker 1: And again, as Sidney told us earlier, we find out
Speaker 1: the only one that knew what had really happened was
Speaker 1: Hunter Johnson, the kid that has hands up over his
Speaker 1: head in anguish.
Speaker 2: Listen to Hunter Johnson.
Speaker 5: I forgot you're here, man?
Speaker 10: Do you still want to hang out here?
Speaker 13: I just want to know what's going on?
Speaker 5: Uh, I don't know how much.
Speaker 10: I don't want to disclose right now, we're we're processing
Speaker 10: what's going on in the scene. As soon as we
Speaker 10: know for sure we can tell you guys what's going on.
Speaker 5: We absolutely will.
Speaker 10: I know it sucks to be in the dark with this,
Speaker 10: but okay, and what's your what's your relationship again? Okay? Yeah, man,
Speaker 10: as soon as soon as I know we're able to
Speaker 10: usually in on what's going on.
Speaker 1: Well, there's a back gad for you.
Speaker 14: I was gonna start taking it.
Speaker 7: All off outside off, Okay, pretty.
Speaker 10: Already, hasn't I gotten there?
Speaker 14: Shut the dog in there?
Speaker 1: You hear the officer trying to secure it, saying, I've
Speaker 1: got to I got to right here, talking about two
Speaker 1: dead bodies. I got two right here already. The house
Speaker 1: is clear. In other words, the suspect's not there. There's
Speaker 1: not a life suspect there. The house is clear to
Speaker 1: walk through. And they shut the dog, which is common
Speaker 1: because you don't know when the dog's gonna go crazy
Speaker 1: to start biting you shut the dog in there. I'm
Speaker 1: curious where he shut the dog. But before I analyze that,
Speaker 1: I want you to hear more from the survivors.
Speaker 2: This is Dylan Morton's listen.
Speaker 10: All right, now, what do you remember saying? I heard it?
Speaker 9: I remember I was in my room. Am I trying
Speaker 9: to go to bed? And they heard Kelley?
Speaker 12: Who dog?
Speaker 13: For real?
Speaker 12: Fast?
Speaker 5: Which one is your room?
Speaker 1: Kaylee?
Speaker 10: Which one is your room?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 6: Room are you in?
Speaker 10: You were in that room?
Speaker 9: My room is in this room, my room and.
Speaker 10: Your room is here's the best one right here?
Speaker 15: Next day?
Speaker 9: Is that one second floor?
Speaker 14: Okay?
Speaker 9: All I heard was I heard hed go upstairs? And
Speaker 9: okay'm and then go to seat now because she's going upstairs.
Speaker 10: Oh you heard who go upstairs?
Speaker 9: Kaylee?
Speaker 12: And the dog Murphy.
Speaker 7: And upstairs to the very top.
Speaker 9: Yeah, that's where her room is.
Speaker 2: Sydney. What is probative about that body? Camp? We just showed.
Speaker 2: What does this prove, Sydney.
Speaker 14: So first we have to get in her mind that
Speaker 14: the entire time Dylan insists Haylee went upstairs, Kaylee screamed,
Speaker 14: Kaylee ran down the stairs. And the officer even points
Speaker 14: this out later. He says to another officer, she somehow
Speaker 14: knows she was somehow able to discern this with Kaylee.
Speaker 14: But we don't think that's actually true, So we have
Speaker 14: to think about the layout of the house. So Kaylee
Speaker 14: and Maddie were asleep upstairs. Xanna's room was on the
Speaker 14: second floor, where Dylan's room was, So the only thing
Speaker 14: that makes sense for somebody to have ran down those
Speaker 14: stairs is Xanna, not Kaylee, not Maddie. So we have
Speaker 14: to get that in our heads as we're listening to
Speaker 14: Dylan's recollection of events. But it just proves to me
Speaker 14: that someone was there. These women are correct, someone was
Speaker 14: in their house.
Speaker 1: So do you think at the time when we think
Speaker 1: Kelly was saying, Hey, I'm gonna go to bed, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go to sleep, do you think he was already
Speaker 1: in the house, Because now I believe that he was
Speaker 1: already in there waiting for them to go to sleep.
Speaker 1: I don't think that they all went to their beds
Speaker 1: and then he snuck in.
Speaker 14: I agree with you. And we also learned later that
Speaker 14: Maddie was the last person to take Murphy out. So
Speaker 14: Mattie checks in with Dylan and bethany one more time. Hey,
Speaker 14: I lost Murphy. I can't get him to come inside.
Speaker 14: Is he with either of y'all? She's looking for the dog.
Speaker 14: So again this dog who they described for weeks was
Speaker 14: on edge before the murders, who was constantly going off
Speaker 14: into the woods and wouldn't come back when called, just
Speaker 14: acting very very oddly, does the same thing this night
Speaker 14: when they're taking him out for the last time. So
Speaker 14: I'm kind of feeling like someone was watching as they
Speaker 14: took the dog out for the very last time, and
Speaker 14: maybe snuck in just behind them as they brought the
Speaker 14: dog in.
Speaker 1: Leading the throng on legal eagles that insist Coberger did
Speaker 1: not act alone is renowned author Howard Bloom. He wrote
Speaker 1: the definitive book on the Idaho murders, When the Night
Speaker 1: Comes Falling.
Speaker 2: A Requiem for the Idaho student murders. Howard, explain yourself, Well.
Speaker 13: First, let me offer a caveat to what you just said.
Speaker 13: I'm not saying he acted alone. I'm saying the theory
Speaker 13: deserves attention, and it deserves attention after all the documents
Speaker 13: we've seen in recent days, which include an analysis of
Speaker 13: what happened by the defense's own witness, doctor Brent Turvey.
Speaker 13: He raises many of the questions that I came about independently.
Speaker 13: If you look at the devastation, this wasn't just a stabbing.
Speaker 13: This was a massacre. The four students were stabbed over
Speaker 13: one hundred and fifty times in totality. I mean, try
Speaker 13: raising your hand one hundred and fifty times and this happens,
Speaker 13: the police say, within a thirteen.
Speaker 1: Minute hold on, hold on, Can I see the photo
Speaker 1: Brian Coberger thinking he looks all buff showing off all
Speaker 1: of his muscles. This guy worked out all the time
Speaker 1: and was constantly flexing himself. So you're telling me, oh,
Speaker 1: dear Lord in Heaven, I asked.
Speaker 13: For it, like a genetic, a skinny kid, but whatever.
Speaker 1: So you don't see those muscles on his He's got
Speaker 1: some guns going on right there. So you're telling me
Speaker 1: you're basing your theory on the fact that he's too
Speaker 1: skinny and scrawny to raise his.
Speaker 2: Arm one hundred and fifty times.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that I'm not saying that for
Speaker 1: an hour all the time.
Speaker 13: And two floors of the house in the darkness. And
Speaker 13: also both the prosecution and defense have said that there's
Speaker 13: a possibility that another weapon was used, that were Kelly
Speaker 13: received wounds from another weapon, that there was also are
Speaker 13: both agree that there is a possibility that there was staging,
Speaker 13: that the victims were covered up with after and they
Speaker 13: move them around. That also that there was a cleanup afterwards,
Speaker 13: but the prosecution is not denying that that's a possibility too.
Speaker 13: I think all these elements as that are laid out
Speaker 13: by the defense statements raise questions that need to be
Speaker 13: looked at. I think we're seeing things when we look
Speaker 13: at the new evidence when released that really don't fit
Speaker 13: into the timeline.
Speaker 1: I want to talk about not only the one hundred
Speaker 1: and fifty stab wounds and howard to bloom desertion. One
Speaker 1: person could not do that. I mean, wait just a minute,
Speaker 1: Susan Hendricks. Don't you recall the case of a female
Speaker 1: murdering a male with one hundred plus stab wounds during
Speaker 1: some crazy sex play?
Speaker 2: Remember that?
Speaker 13: Oh?
Speaker 16: Yes, yes, I believe it is possible here and clearly
Speaker 16: we've seen it in other cases as well. And by
Speaker 16: the way, the two weapons, I think it was the
Speaker 16: back of the knife and the bleede. I think that's
Speaker 16: what the prosecutor meant.
Speaker 2: What do you mean with Kaylee?
Speaker 16: She had some injuries that may have been she was
Speaker 16: injured by the back of the knife toward in her
Speaker 16: facial area and her team.
Speaker 1: That explains a lot. Okay, Doctor Kendall Crown's hearing Susan
Speaker 1: Hendrick's explanation, the back or the hilt of the knife
Speaker 1: being used, would that make a difference in your analysis
Speaker 1: at all?
Speaker 17: So, the back of the hilt of the knife being used,
Speaker 17: to me, it could go along with the injuries you're seeing,
Speaker 17: the Blue SOS injuries, and also it could be the
Speaker 17: knife being driven in all the way to the hilt
Speaker 17: being a very deep stab wound leaving injuries as well.
Speaker 17: So to me, it just all goes along with the
Speaker 17: fact that it's a single individual causing all these wounds.
Speaker 17: They just switch up what they're doing with their one weapon.
Speaker 1: You know, I believe her name was Bryn Spetcher Hendricks,
Speaker 1: who was convicted of stabbing her boyfriend over one hundred times.
Speaker 1: And then of course there's Jody Arius who stabbed Travis
Speaker 1: Alexander thirty plus times and didn't have a problem with
Speaker 1: it at all. But for some reason, Howard Bloom, you
Speaker 1: seem to think that while these two women could perform
Speaker 1: could murder with an ie stabbing over and over and over,
Speaker 1: you don't think Coburger could do it.
Speaker 13: Well, you're in the cases you're talking about involves just
Speaker 13: one victim. Here we're talking about four different victims on
Speaker 13: two floors of the house in darkness, and we know
Speaker 13: that at least two of them fought back, and the
Speaker 13: prosecution itself has raised the possibility of a second weapon.
Speaker 13: All these pieces come together, I think, to raise the
Speaker 13: possibility that there might well have been another assailant. Edit
Speaker 13: on to the motive, edit on to Coburger's statement, was
Speaker 13: anyone else arrested? It raises a lot of doubts.
Speaker 2: And to use.
Speaker 13: Dylan Morton's as a witness, well, her testimony has been
Speaker 13: very mercurial, has changed throughout the many interviews she's given
Speaker 13: with the police. I mean, I feel for her. She's
Speaker 13: a victim in all this, but at the same time,
Speaker 13: she is not the most reliable witness.
Speaker 1: Okay, straight back to you, Chrismydonna. Could you shed some
Speaker 1: light on the theory that there were two assailants now
Speaker 1: that you've heard where Bloom is coming from.
Speaker 11: Sure, that's one of the questions is not being asked,
Speaker 11: is what's in Brian coburger system That evening one of
Speaker 11: the last homicides I worked was a single individual that
Speaker 11: had slaughtered some folks and the knife went on Folatto.
Speaker 11: There were hundreds of stab wounds. And as the doc
Speaker 11: has shed and as Susan was reported that that knife,
Speaker 11: that cave Oar knife, the back of the health of
Speaker 11: that knife, I believe was utilizing the blood evidence shows
Speaker 11: it on Kayley excessively as well as Xana excessively. And
Speaker 11: that's probably the two weapon theory here. What we're not
Speaker 11: asking though, is what was going on in Brian Coberger's system.
Speaker 11: We know what the toxicology results are for the victims.
Speaker 11: They were incapacitated, they were sleeping. But Brian Coberger in
Speaker 11: that eight hour time that was just brought up, came
Speaker 11: back to the scene to see his work that morning,
Speaker 11: you know, and if in fact this was a two
Speaker 11: perpetrator problem, whether or not the sharpest tools in the shed,
Speaker 11: because somebody came up with the idea of leaving the
Speaker 11: knife sheet there.
Speaker 1: So not just one idiot but two. Yeah, that's kind
Speaker 1: of hard to take in. So, Howard Bloom, you also
Speaker 1: point out DNA on the stairwell and on a glove.
Speaker 1: I believe that Chris mcgunnough spotted the glove that I
Speaker 1: at the time out in the parking lot.
Speaker 2: And I believe Chris, you're the one that showed it
Speaker 2: to police.
Speaker 1: So I guess, Howard Bloom, you're using that as fodder
Speaker 1: for your two perp theory.
Speaker 2: The DNA.
Speaker 13: No, I'm raising the question, why wasn't that DNA analyzed?
Speaker 13: Why wasn't the prosecution and the Idaho State Police going
Speaker 13: through the trouble really just taking the time to put
Speaker 13: this through the DNA final try to find out who
Speaker 13: it belonged to. It seems that when you don't want
Speaker 13: to know the answers to questions, they didn't ask them.
Speaker 1: Susant Hendricks, isn't it true that the state tried to
Speaker 1: get a DNA match on that spec of DNA, and
Speaker 1: regarding the handrail, that could have been anybody. This was
Speaker 1: a party house that was in and out of the house.
Speaker 1: But didn't they try to get a DNA match?
Speaker 16: Yes, and I always go back I note to Delphi
Speaker 16: because I know so much about that case. But there
Speaker 16: was some DNA of unknown people on the girl's clothes,
Speaker 16: meaning if you're around anyone, it could show. As you said,
Speaker 16: it was a party house, it could have been someone
Speaker 16: in that homes.
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, look at the grub hub truck. They're
Speaker 1: hugging people and talking to people. That's very, very easy
Speaker 1: to transfer DNA right there. So my point is Howard
Speaker 1: Bloom said, why didn't they try to find out? They
Speaker 1: did try to find out, didn't they?
Speaker 8: And they settled.
Speaker 16: The defense is now trying to try it in the
Speaker 16: court of public opinion. And I will say online the
Speaker 16: people who believed there was someone else there really believe it,
Speaker 16: and they're sticking with it no matter what the events.
Speaker 18: Tell me exactly what's going on.
Speaker 9: One of our one of the roommates has passed out
Speaker 9: and she's young class and shot like the up.
Speaker 14: Okay, oh, and they saw some man in their house
Speaker 14: house side.
Speaker 18: Yeah, alright, are you with the patient?
Speaker 11: Okay?
Speaker 18: I need someone to keep the phone, stop passing it around.
Speaker 9: Can I just tell you what happened?
Speaker 12: Pretty much?
Speaker 18: What is going on currently? Is someone passed out right now?
Speaker 9: I don't really know what pretty much? At four am, okay, I.
Speaker 18: Need to know what's going on right now. If someone
Speaker 18: has passed out, can you find that out?
Speaker 8: Yeah, I'll come come on.
Speaker 12: One of our one of the roommates who's passed out
Speaker 12: and she's drunk.
Speaker 14: Last night and she don't wake me up.
Speaker 18: Okay.
Speaker 14: Oh and they saw some man in their house house night.
Speaker 18: Yeah, alright, are you with the patient?
Speaker 7: Okay?
Speaker 18: I need someone to keep the phone, stop passing it around.
Speaker 9: Can I just tell you what happened?
Speaker 12: Pretty much?
Speaker 18: What is going on currently? Is someone passed out right now?
Speaker 14: I don't really know what pretty much at FIM.
Speaker 18: Okay, I need to know what's going on right now.
Speaker 18: If someone has passed out, can you find that out?
Speaker 9: Y'all come on check, But we have to.
Speaker 2: They were not passed out.
Speaker 1: They were all dead at the hands of Brian Coburger
Speaker 1: and tonight. To further twist the families, he says he's
Speaker 1: innocent and he wants to trial. And you know what
Speaker 1: I say to that, missus Gonsolvis, bring it on. I
Speaker 1: agree with him about one thing, Christy. Brian Coburger says
Speaker 1: in his handwritten petition, justice was not served. True words
Speaker 1: were never spoken. Justice was not served because he needs
Speaker 1: the death penalty.
Speaker 2: So he's right.
Speaker 1: There's one phrase in this whole petition that is accurate.
Speaker 1: Okay with me. You know them well, and they are
Speaker 1: the founders of murder has a name. This is in
Speaker 1: their beautiful doll daughter Killy Gonsovas's memory in her honor.
Speaker 1: She was murdered by Brian Coburger and they are taking
Speaker 1: that pain and transforming it into something good, raising money
Speaker 1: for DNA kits to be handled and processed to stop
Speaker 1: killers and get them off the street before more victims fall.
Speaker 2: Prey. Christy is with us. Steve Gonsalvas is with us, Christy.
Speaker 1: When did you find out Brian Coburger that pos technical
Speaker 1: legal term says, I'm innocent?
Speaker 2: I was tricked.
Speaker 1: I love this part, Christy that he was misled about
Speaker 1: life behind bars? Surprised Jill ain't what is cracked up
Speaker 1: to be? Yeah, he figured that out, didn't he? When
Speaker 1: did you find out about this?
Speaker 3: I found out pretty early on, about about an hour
Speaker 3: before it started busting at the scenes on the media.
Speaker 8: Steve hat called me.
Speaker 3: And I was in the middle of a Zoom meeting
Speaker 3: for Murder as a Name, and I was like, Steve's
Speaker 3: telling me call me right away, call me out, and
Speaker 3: I'm like, I gotta go, Like he doesn't say that,
Speaker 3: And I called him and he told me, and I
Speaker 3: was like, you know.
Speaker 8: What is that happening now?
Speaker 3: So took us a minute to find out what exactly
Speaker 3: his allegations that he was having.
Speaker 8: And the reasons for it.
Speaker 3: But when we heard, we were like the judge asked
Speaker 3: you every single one of those questions. You know, so
Speaker 3: where you go erst, where you promise anything? Were you
Speaker 3: on drugs?
Speaker 10: You know?
Speaker 3: And everything? And I mean it's a plea deal. I
Speaker 3: think it's pretty straightforward. I think the average IQ person
Speaker 3: can understand what a plea deal is.
Speaker 8: It's not something super complicated.
Speaker 1: So Nima Romani, is there any way this can happen?
Speaker 2: How dare he?
Speaker 1: After all he has put everybody through. It's all about me,
Speaker 1: me me, me, me, me, me, me me me. I
Speaker 1: don't like jail. This wasn't what it's cracked up to be.
Speaker 1: I was lied to, I was mistreated. Every Senate starts
Speaker 1: with I is there a way.
Speaker 2: To give him what he wants?
Speaker 1: Because I'd like to put it three inches right up
Speaker 1: his tailpipe. Listen.
Speaker 15: I would love a trial too, just like everyone else.
Speaker 15: I think there's no world where he's actually innocent. He
Speaker 15: will be convicted, he will be sentenced to death. But
Speaker 15: I don't think it's going to happen. Nancy. This is
Speaker 15: a final judgment. The law wants to keep these judgments final.
Speaker 15: We can have every criminal defendant.
Speaker 1: When both parties don't want it to be final.
Speaker 8: Both it's sort.
Speaker 1: I just think you a US Supreme Court that can
Speaker 1: undo a guilty play. All this business about a plea
Speaker 1: is unappealable.
Speaker 2: That's crap, that's not true.
Speaker 1: I can't believe they even said that to start with.
Speaker 2: Do they not have a law book?
Speaker 15: Well, listen, there has to be a constitutional violation. So
Speaker 15: if the parties agree that there's a constitutional violation, of course,
Speaker 15: but they can't just enter into a stipulation. It's not
Speaker 15: like just putting a piece of evidence in or saying, hey,
Speaker 15: we want to do over. There has to be a
Speaker 15: legal basis to unwind this apps in a constitutional violation,
Speaker 15: We're not going to be able to get there. It's
Speaker 15: not enough for the prosecution of the defense to say,
Speaker 15: you know what, we've changed our mind, we want to
Speaker 15: do over. This was a bad deal because the millions
Speaker 15: are thinking the.
Speaker 1: Best bet is ineffective. Ineffective assistance. Now because I actual innocence,
Speaker 1: it's not going to work.
Speaker 2: Not knowing and.
Speaker 1: Voluntary that's not going to work. We're that didn't happen.
Speaker 1: So all we're left with is ineffective.
Speaker 15: That's all we're left with. So unless say tell.
Speaker 1: It, he's crazy like a fox, because that's what he's
Speaker 1: claiming in this petition, that his lawyers did not give
Speaker 1: him the whole truth, that they withheld exculpatory evidence from
Speaker 1: him to get him to plead guilty. He's saying it
Speaker 1: was all a fabrication. Is that what he's saying, Nate Eaton,
Speaker 1: is all a big fabrication.
Speaker 7: It was a lie, that's what he's saying, Nancy. One
Speaker 7: interesting thing is the Attorney General for the state of
Speaker 7: Idaho came out and said, my office stands ready to
Speaker 7: do whatever is necessary to ensure justice is fully carried out.
Speaker 7: He didn't say there's no chance that this will advance
Speaker 7: that if the judge denies it. It sounds like the
Speaker 7: attorney general is ready and willing to help. So let's
Speaker 7: say a prosecutor from the Attorney General's office steps in
Speaker 7: and says, okay, we'll prosecute the case from the state level,
Speaker 7: and then Coburger, who's going to represent him this proceeds, is,
Speaker 7: you know, represent himself. He's writing his own legal briefs.
Speaker 1: No there are plenty of lawyers that would do it
Speaker 1: just for the pr You know, I appreciate what the
Speaker 1: State Ag said, Labrador, But where the hay was the
Speaker 1: age when this plea was going down? Okay, when everybody
Speaker 1: across the country was screaming, including the Gonsalvest family, where
Speaker 1: were they?
Speaker 2: Then? You know what, if they're going to come late
Speaker 2: to the party, great.
Speaker 1: Come on, but I no, that's but another thing this
Speaker 1: does is it opens up a possibility the Feds might
Speaker 1: step in, because if that plea is undone, they could.
Speaker 19: So I'm going through some of Chile's things and.
Speaker 12: I just came across the sweatshirt that she was wearing
Speaker 12: that night, and.
Speaker 8: In the pocket your grub truck number seventy eight.
Speaker 9: Ticket. H h H.
Speaker 19: I've been looking for it. It's the first thing that
Speaker 19: I really found that I've been looking for. It was
Speaker 19: in the top of a box, and and then when
Speaker 19: I looked in the pocket and I found that ticket.
Speaker 19: Just takes you back to those hours, those hours right
Speaker 19: before I had no idea what was going to happen
Speaker 19: to them?
Speaker 10: Terrible h.
Speaker 2: That's Christie from the gon Soolves family Facebook. Joe Scott,
Speaker 2: what are we gonna do.
Speaker 5: Man, God bless Shaw, I can't even plumb the depths
Speaker 5: of this. Uh. Getting back to the to the evidence
Speaker 5: at hand, I got to tell you something and going
Speaker 5: back to what Steve and Christy had said earlier and
Speaker 5: let the hide come with hairs, would I say, if
Speaker 5: he wants to fight, bring it on. Because going back
Speaker 5: to what that clip that you showed of our friends
Speaker 5: David and Kristen at AUTHRM, I felt all along that
Speaker 5: there was going to be a just a plethora of
Speaker 5: DNA evidence. And here's why I'm going to throw a
Speaker 5: number out to you that we don't use this number
Speaker 5: a lot when we're talking about these four precious lives. Okay,
Speaker 5: we talked about the individual injuries, you know, per person,
Speaker 5: but Nancy, I want to give you this number. One
Speaker 5: hundred and fifty. One hundred and fifty injuries we're talking
Speaker 5: about in total. Now, that's kind of an approximation because
Speaker 5: the violence involved in this case, you have what were
Speaker 5: referred to or what I would refer to as communicating injuries.
Speaker 5: So you have such a concentration of injuries that you'll
Speaker 5: get this kind of cross pattern where you can't delineate it.
Speaker 5: And of course you know this, this certainly happened with Kayley.
Speaker 5: There's just certain things that you can't interpret specifically because
Speaker 5: of the level of violence. But one hundred and fifty, Nancy,
Speaker 5: just let that sink in. How are you going to
Speaker 5: engage in this kind of violence and not have transfer
Speaker 5: of DNA and you taking on DNA from an individual?
Speaker 5: I can only imagine where else they're sourcing this from
Speaker 5: points of contact. We go back, and you know, my
Speaker 5: old adage is always the card, every contact leaves a trace,
Speaker 5: and that principle holds true here. It's solid as the
Speaker 5: day is long. And so when you think about the
Speaker 5: violence that was exacted here, yeah, I think that there
Speaker 5: is a solid underpinning of evidence here. And again, if
Speaker 5: he you know, if he feels froggy, let's jump, baby,
Speaker 5: let's roll, because I want to see this evidence. And
Speaker 5: going back from a prosectorial standpoint, I want to see
Speaker 5: somebody that's actually got the guts to go forward, stand
Speaker 5: up and accuse him and direct him to offer up
Speaker 5: an explanation for what happened. Of course we didn't see
Speaker 5: that because there was no damn allocution that was not
Speaker 5: required of him. He gets to live on easy Street
Speaker 5: and undutnety.
Speaker 2: Final word, Christy and Steve.
Speaker 3: It's completely out of our hands and all we could
Speaker 3: do is show up and we will continue to do that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I hope his day of manipulating all these core
Speaker 4: processes come to an end. We were unseiling things, things
Speaker 4: were slowly coming out. I hope that doesn't come to
Speaker 4: an end. We all deserve the truth. And when you
Speaker 4: have a prisoner who sits there is able to manipulate
Speaker 4: things and they start rewarding him by not unseiling, then
Speaker 4: you know they're making they're making a standard for others
Speaker 4: to follow.
Speaker 5: So let's hope.
Speaker 3: And and and I do want to say that I'm sorry
Speaker 3: to the state of Idaho, to the community that you know,
Speaker 3: as taxpayers, that this is uh this this has been
Speaker 3: so expensive and just continues to run. And I see
Speaker 3: a lot of people say, you know what, we don't
Speaker 3: want to put, you know, end it because of the costs.
Speaker 8: I understand that.
Speaker 3: But on the other hand, you know, this is our child,
Speaker 3: and if it was your child, you know, you might
Speaker 3: feel a little differently. But we do understand that. We
Speaker 3: you know, we don't want to dismiss that. But how
Speaker 3: much is your child worthy? You know there's there's no
Speaker 3: dollar amount that you can put on that.
Speaker 1: Everyone whinds about our tax dollars being misspent. Finally, our
Speaker 1: tax dollars would be spent for a good cause. Nothing
Speaker 1: to complain about. There we wait as justice unfolds, God willing. Finally,
Speaker 1: in this case we remember an American here, Sargeant Edmund Murray,
Speaker 1: New York PD passed away in the line of duty,
Speaker 1: leaving behind parents Maureen and Bartholomew. American hero, Sergeant Edmund Murray.
Speaker 1: Thank you to our guest, but especially to you being
Speaker 1: with us tonight. Nancy Gray signing off, but I'll see
Speaker 1: you tomorrow night, and until then, good night friend,