Speaker 1: My guest today is actor, filmmaker and podcast host Rob Low.
Speaker 1: You may know him from The West Wing and Saint
Speaker 1: Elmo's Fire by the Way iconic show and movie, but
Speaker 1: today Rob is the star of Fox's nine one one
Speaker 1: Lone Star and host of Literally with Rob Low. This
Speaker 1: is just me with Rob Low. Let's get into it. Hi,
Speaker 1: So I talk to you. A lot of people commented
Speaker 1: on me doing your show, like, isn't it funny the
Speaker 1: types of people that come out of the woodwork when
Speaker 1: you do different things and then you realize why you
Speaker 1: do different things.
Speaker 2: Yes, I'm so. I'm so interested to know you did
Speaker 2: my podcast Literally and you were great. I had a
Speaker 2: great talk with you. What was the reaction on your end?
Speaker 1: The reaction was great. But like I said, from different
Speaker 1: people that I don't you know, you're always marketing to
Speaker 1: the same audience because they're your audience. And so that's why,
Speaker 1: that's why the model of podcasts and doing different types
Speaker 1: of things and having different people on yours does really
Speaker 1: work because different like random like David Lasher who was
Speaker 1: Vinnie from Blossom, was like I listened to you on
Speaker 1: Rob Blows. I'm like what, Like it was just so
Speaker 1: weird all of it. I was like, oh, and he's like,
Speaker 1: I loved what you said. It was so inspirational, and
Speaker 1: he I know him, and he's like, I didn't even
Speaker 1: know your story, so you know, it hit differently, which
Speaker 1: is which is nice, which says a lot about about
Speaker 1: you and the combination of us who are in a
Speaker 1: similar generation but speaking to some similar people. And then
Speaker 1: I'm sure you know different people. But I enjoyed it.
Speaker 1: I felt like I know you now. And and I
Speaker 1: was in Santa Barbara recently and I felt like, I, yeah,
Speaker 1: I know Roblo. I'm in Barbara, I have friends here.
Speaker 2: Well it's well, that's I love hearing that, and I
Speaker 2: It's It's true, isn't it?
Speaker 3: Like it is always interesting.
Speaker 2: To me when we are out giving interviews or selling.
Speaker 3: A product or movie or TV or whatever.
Speaker 2: Who is watching or listening to what? It's endlessly fascinating
Speaker 2: to me.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I really do think that if I'm
Speaker 1: not a person who likes unsolicited advice or visits, but
Speaker 1: if I were that person, and I feel like if
Speaker 1: I knocked on your door, you'd be like, hey, come
Speaker 1: on in. I feel like we're friends now.
Speaker 2: So I'm already feeling bad that you didn't say, Hey,
Speaker 2: I'm in Santa Barbara, let's get coffee.
Speaker 1: I think I message on Instagram, but I don't know
Speaker 1: if you got it.
Speaker 3: I forget if, like you know my Instagram.
Speaker 2: I it's like I'm not as good as following the
Speaker 2: comments maybe as I should be.
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I don't believe me. I mean I went
Speaker 1: with my daughter. We stayed at Calamy Goes Ranch and
Speaker 1: Malibu and then drove for the day.
Speaker 3: What's it like to stay there?
Speaker 1: So Mark Gervitz is a power comedy manager who lives
Speaker 1: in Malibi, like deep Malibu. There's Malibu and then there's
Speaker 1: like deeper Malibu. And I was going to an event
Speaker 1: at his house to see Adam Sandler and a bunch
Speaker 1: of people, and I wanted to have a staycation versus
Speaker 1: stay in La where you're going to transact and you're
Speaker 1: going to be in the business of show and I
Speaker 1: didn't want. I wanted to be on a vacation and
Speaker 1: feel like I could go to the beach. And Malibu
Speaker 1: is different. So we stayed at this place, Kalamigos Ranch,
Speaker 1: which is like very ranchy and very malibuish and very
Speaker 1: cowboy budhish and rustic and different than most of La
Speaker 1: And everybody that I've told that I stayed there was like, oh, yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I've never stayed there or I've never been there, and
Speaker 1: I was like, what do you mean It's it was shocking. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So I loved.
Speaker 2: It when I was a kid, when I was in
Speaker 2: junior high that everybody went to summer camp at Kalamigos Ranch. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Oh, it's been different things.
Speaker 2: It's been a proper ranch and that it's been defunct
Speaker 2: and then it's been revitalized.
Speaker 3: But it's I've never stayed there.
Speaker 1: So then we went to your town, and I love
Speaker 1: You're in Santa I love that town of Santa Barbara.
Speaker 1: I've been to Monacito and we did that, but like
Speaker 1: that street in Santa Barbara with all those pianos on,
Speaker 1: it was amazing.
Speaker 2: I know, right, they've shut since COVID, they shut down
Speaker 2: State Street and it's now like a you know, a plaza,
Speaker 2: walking plaza. It's Those are two of my favorite places
Speaker 2: in Alibu, and Montecito and Santa Barbara three of my favorite,
Speaker 2: I should say.
Speaker 1: Likewise, Okay, so I've done a little bit of reading
Speaker 1: about you and I had always peripherally gotten a sense
Speaker 1: of you, like I knew you married a makeup artist
Speaker 1: or your makeup artist, and I was sadly jealous at
Speaker 1: the time, and I was just thinking like, why her
Speaker 1: not me? And I didn't even know you, So that
Speaker 1: was this good reason why we didn't know each other.
Speaker 1: So you got We talked on your podcasts about this
Speaker 1: a little bit. But you you started in you were
Speaker 1: in Ohio and and then you went to la or
Speaker 1: you started in Virginia.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was.
Speaker 2: I was born in Charlottesville, where my dad was had
Speaker 2: just graduated from law school, and then they, my mother
Speaker 2: and my dad moved to Dayton and that's where I
Speaker 2: had my childhood. My proper you know, from six months
Speaker 2: old to twelve was in Dayton. So I got a
Speaker 2: real Midwestern childhood. And then my mom and dad divorced
Speaker 2: and we ended up in directly from Dayton to Point
Speaker 2: Doom in Malibu, which was like going to Mars.
Speaker 1: Wow, that's a Fred Hayman from Georgio, Beverly Hills. I
Speaker 1: planned and organized his wedding and so that was my
Speaker 1: first experience at Point Doom.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Point Doom is there's Malibu and then there's Point Doom.
Speaker 2: It's a whole different vibe very and my great obsession
Speaker 2: is I want to do a movie or miniseries or
Speaker 2: book about what life was like in Malibu but on
Speaker 2: Point Doom, in particular in the mid to late seventies,
Speaker 2: because it was.
Speaker 1: Not wait so hold on, I was staying when you
Speaker 1: went down to the left was Paradise Cove And then
Speaker 1: to the Point Doom is not in Malibu. It's like
Speaker 1: its own thing.
Speaker 2: No, it's a part of Malibu, but it's it's it's
Speaker 2: because it's a point Okay, it's it's its own neighborhood.
Speaker 2: It's it's you know, it's not on the pch like
Speaker 2: everything else is. And uh, it's it's just a weird
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's the Indian Shoemash mojo there,
Speaker 2: but it's both really exciting and interesting and really dark
Speaker 2: and weird all at the same time.
Speaker 1: Is are there are there reservations there? No?
Speaker 2: But it's okay, But it's all real shoemash you know,
Speaker 2: the original you know, people of the area.
Speaker 3: It's it's very viby in that way. Lots of arrowheads
Speaker 3: and history.
Speaker 1: What high school did you go to There.
Speaker 2: Was no high school in Malibu then there is now,
Speaker 2: and we had to take the bus twenty two miles
Speaker 2: to Santa Monica to go to high school.
Speaker 1: So you went to Santa Monica High School. Wow, okay,
Speaker 1: so you really But I mean, starting at twelve, you
Speaker 1: kind of really are a California boy and you really
Speaker 1: never left that sphere, Like you're not that far from
Speaker 1: there now. I mean, you're in that vibe too. There's
Speaker 1: a Malibu vibe, and I feel like Santa Barbara is
Speaker 1: like a Malibu adjacent vibe, having spent that weekend wanting
Speaker 1: to go that way versus go the other way into La.
Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2: And again when Malibu when I moved there, it was
Speaker 2: not a show business enclave it is now. There was
Speaker 2: a time, you know, I would say in the early
Speaker 2: eighties when the studio executives and the agents.
Speaker 3: All moved out there.
Speaker 2: But when I grew up there, it's what Santa Barbara
Speaker 2: and Montecito were when I moved up here, which is
Speaker 2: super rural. People ride their horses down the street. Wow,
Speaker 2: not a company town. You get all walks of life
Speaker 2: when you like, you know, if I'm coaching Little League
Speaker 2: I'm you know, there's the dad's work in every line
Speaker 2: of work you could imagine, and they're not all in
Speaker 2: show business. So it's it's just I'm attracted to a
Speaker 2: little bit of more diversity of thought and of experience.
Speaker 1: And moving your kids to Santa Barbara when they were
Speaker 1: at an age where things are more influential. That was
Speaker 1: obviously intentional. Is that because of your Midwestern roots, like
Speaker 1: you just wanted to feel some version of that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I wanted. I wanted them to be able to
Speaker 3: be outside a lot.
Speaker 2: I wanted I wanted, you know, up here we could
Speaker 2: we could go to the beach, maybe take a hike,
Speaker 2: go to the zoo, and go to a movie. We
Speaker 2: could do that all in one day up here and
Speaker 2: in la As, you know, that's you could do one
Speaker 2: of them right in a day. And if you're in
Speaker 2: Malibu you can really.
Speaker 3: Only do one of them.
Speaker 1: And where's your wife from.
Speaker 2: She's a born and bred valley girl.
Speaker 1: She's a valley girl, Okay.
Speaker 2: And Vally, they're very she is a valley girl, you know, Hollywood.
Speaker 3: She grew up in both areas.
Speaker 1: So you dragged her.
Speaker 3: I dragged her, Oh, I dragged her.
Speaker 1: She dragged her.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she was not having it.
Speaker 2: I had a real vision though, of I mean, every
Speaker 2: once in a while I have a I have a
Speaker 2: vision of what I want to do, not all the time,
Speaker 2: but every once in a while, and I really was like,
Speaker 2: this is really right for us, and I mean it's
Speaker 2: one of the smartest things that we ever did as
Speaker 2: a family, was was was move up here both I
Speaker 2: mean in terms of our lifestyle, what it did for
Speaker 2: our relationships, for our marriage, for our kids, and financially,
Speaker 2: As it turns out, more than anything, I've done better
Speaker 2: in real estate in Montecito than I've done in my
Speaker 2: entertainment career.
Speaker 1: That's what I was. The next question I was gonna
Speaker 1: ask is did you invest in? You invest early?
Speaker 3: Yep?
Speaker 2: I did years ago yep, and Monacito became only just
Speaker 2: continued to become more attractive.
Speaker 3: And then between.
Speaker 2: People being able to work from home, the rise of Zoom,
Speaker 2: the experience of COVID and a big hotel opening up
Speaker 2: the Miramar that brought people from all over the world
Speaker 2: to see it, and Megan and Harry moving in, all
Speaker 2: of those things turned Monacito into another version of the Hamptons,
Speaker 2: which it never was.
Speaker 1: You said last time, and I spoke to you that
Speaker 1: you don't. I don't think you consider yourself a very
Speaker 1: good business person?
Speaker 4: Or do you?
Speaker 1: Or do you?
Speaker 2: It depends. I definitely consider myself a business person, for sure.
Speaker 1: You do, so, okay, yeah, for sure, Like you are
Speaker 1: thinking business first, You're marketing your business, You're you have
Speaker 1: a chessboard that you're working in your mind.
Speaker 2: I mean, it doesn't supersede my creative but I like
Speaker 2: to think that I can get them both to exist
Speaker 2: equally within me and neither one is a detriment to
Speaker 2: the other.
Speaker 1: And who So when you started making money acting, you
Speaker 1: started investing or that was just you buying your personal property,
Speaker 1: Like what was your business trajectory it was?
Speaker 2: It was really just buying the personal property, really and
Speaker 2: then you know, selling it and you know, doing well
Speaker 2: and moving up the ladder, and then selling that and
Speaker 2: doing well and then starting to invest in other areas
Speaker 2: of real estate, which is really and I got to
Speaker 2: give my wife credit.
Speaker 3: She has really been the impetus.
Speaker 1: Behind that, behind the investing in other real estate.
Speaker 2: In real estate period. She's got an.
Speaker 3: Amazing, amazing sniffer for.
Speaker 1: Real estate, the vision of what something could be yes insane.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're just insane.
Speaker 1: I love that and I've done that personally a lot,
Speaker 1: and it was almost unintentional. But during the pandemic, I
Speaker 1: flipped three places and I never I was thinking about
Speaker 1: you talking about your personal real estate for people who
Speaker 1: are thinking about business in different ways. For me, anytime
Speaker 1: I go to look at something, I always think about,
Speaker 1: even if it's for an investment, if I would live there,
Speaker 1: Because if the shit hits the fan and you have
Speaker 1: five different pieces on the board, you could sell four
Speaker 1: and you'd be willing to live in any of them,
Speaker 1: like they all work for you. I like that freedom
Speaker 1: of thought where I like that, but if I end
Speaker 1: up not liking it, like a place on the water,
Speaker 1: maybe I don't know what it's like to live on
Speaker 1: the water, but I fantasize about it. I just bought
Speaker 1: a place, but I know I could move it or
Speaker 1: rent it. I like to be nimble and the pieces
Speaker 1: like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and for us, the straight investment real estate is
Speaker 3: new ish.
Speaker 2: And you know we we we weren't flippers, and I
Speaker 2: don't we're not.
Speaker 3: Our homes are our homes and we live in them.
Speaker 2: And but we've just had those those things where people
Speaker 2: have said, you know, we'd like to buy it, and
Speaker 2: you name the price, and I go, you know what
Speaker 2: I'm gonna At the end of the day, I'm still
Speaker 2: an actor for hire. I sort of a fiduciary responsibility
Speaker 2: to my family to to say yes to this. But
Speaker 2: it's not like I'm I ever build any home to.
Speaker 1: Flip it, right, I understand, but your but your wife
Speaker 1: is probably thinking of things being somewhat not neutral. But
Speaker 1: I think people think about that in design too. You know,
Speaker 1: you're not putting like crocodile walls because you never know
Speaker 1: what could happen if someone knocks on the door.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, Willison, for sure.
Speaker 2: And I think it's one of the reasons we have
Speaker 2: been able to do what we do is when we
Speaker 2: we just found a big, an amazing piece of property.
Speaker 2: It's a legacy property, been around since eighteen seventy seven.
Speaker 2: And when you have something like that, you have to
Speaker 2: build something on it that's equal to the property.
Speaker 3: And if you don't, then you're actually taking money off
Speaker 3: the table. So it's a weird thing.
Speaker 2: You're going to spend more, but you're actually making more
Speaker 2: than if you you know, you know what I mean
Speaker 2: it's like, yes, you got if you've.
Speaker 3: Got to, you got to.
Speaker 1: If you're gonna do it, you're gonna do it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, you gotta do it right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I live on a house it's seventeen forty three
Speaker 1: on a property with an apple orchard, and like I
Speaker 1: don't mess around with the original wood in the house
Speaker 1: or like I just I you have to honor it.
Speaker 1: This is what you're saying. You're honoring. You're not gonna
Speaker 1: like spec house it up on eighteen hundred's property. So
Speaker 1: you've done well, You've made money and in show business
Speaker 1: and in real estate. How do you I know you're
Speaker 1: you have and that you wanted to move them there
Speaker 1: for them to have this sort of balance and be grounded.
Speaker 1: How do you raise rich kids? Because I've talked to
Speaker 1: more Cuban about this, I've talked to myself about this
Speaker 1: and has it worked and your kids, you know, well
Speaker 1: adjusted work for themselves? Like did you do this? Did
Speaker 1: you nail it?
Speaker 3: Well?
Speaker 2: First of all, you know it's all relative. Even what
Speaker 2: is rich, right is relative? You know, Mark Cuban's got
Speaker 2: more money than you.
Speaker 3: I do.
Speaker 1: No, But but even the gay he still doesn't want
Speaker 1: really really really asshole spoiled kids. So he's harder for
Speaker 1: him because he's flying on a private plane. We're flying
Speaker 1: first class. So like at your level, I guess you know, And.
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, I think my kids, if you
Speaker 2: ask them, they legitimately would not consider themselves.
Speaker 3: Rich.
Speaker 2: Legit, that's not in the ethos, Like they know they
Speaker 2: have this trust fund or they know that when I
Speaker 2: know people like this, I've worked with people like who
Speaker 2: know that when their dad or mom kicks the bucket
Speaker 2: or when grandpa kicks the bucket, they're coming into you know,
Speaker 2: a lot of money. They and they you know, it's
Speaker 2: always out there in their lives. Obviously, that's not my family.
Speaker 2: I think that they grew up thinking and having certainly
Speaker 2: the experience of being not any different than a lot
Speaker 2: of the other kids. Other than you know, maybe the
Speaker 2: vacations were nicer, and you know, like you said, maybe
Speaker 2: we flew more often. But I tried to give them
Speaker 2: a really normal sixtent I could upbringing. I think the
Speaker 2: thing that makes it really different is the fame part
Speaker 2: of it.
Speaker 1: Oh interesting, okay, right right.
Speaker 2: Because you know, you can be worth four billion dollars
Speaker 2: and you can walk into a restaurant and nobody knows
Speaker 2: who you are, and you can be worth, you know,
Speaker 2: four hundred thousand dollars and walk into a restaurant and
Speaker 2: it stops dead in its tracks. So it's a funny.
Speaker 2: It's a funny thing. So I really think there's the
Speaker 2: how do you deal with with money? And then there's
Speaker 2: how do you deal with being in a family that
Speaker 2: is in the public eye?
Speaker 1: And are you just are you insular you're not out
Speaker 1: that much? Or you live in a place where no
Speaker 1: one cares? And you know, what's it like when you're
Speaker 1: with them in La Do they care? Do they What
Speaker 1: is that like in your house? Fame? And is your
Speaker 1: wife annoyed by it?
Speaker 2: Well, the thing is the one of the reasons I
Speaker 2: consciously moved out of LA was I didn't want my
Speaker 2: kids growing up, you know, around paparazzi and and and
Speaker 2: and where the currency of the realm is your fame,
Speaker 2: and that just is what it is in La There's
Speaker 2: no way to skin that cat.
Speaker 3: When I grew up in.
Speaker 2: Malibu, there were there were horses at the hitching posts
Speaker 2: at the market. They're gone and they're replaced with paparazzi,
Speaker 2: staking people out, which wasn't there. So I tried I
Speaker 2: recreated it, and so they just didn't. They'd come home
Speaker 2: and go Dad. They'd visit a friend in Melibou.
Speaker 4: Dad. They had a screening room. We watched a movie
Speaker 4: there and Jim Carrey came over and they're talking like
Speaker 4: they're from you know, Ohio, right, you know, and and that,
Speaker 4: and I was like, yeah, that's good. They should be.
Speaker 2: They should you have stars in their eyes like that
Speaker 2: and feel that way. And you know, my other my son,
Speaker 2: who is the actor, didn't start out that way. He
Speaker 2: started out as a a stem cell scientist and went
Speaker 2: to Stanford and then came out and decided he wanted
Speaker 2: to be an actor and a writer.
Speaker 3: And of course I was that was not a happy
Speaker 3: day for me. I was like, I had a molecular
Speaker 3: biologist an actor.
Speaker 1: My daughter kind of acts like when she went from
Speaker 1: this public school to this private school, she acted like
Speaker 1: she was sort of on scholarship. She was like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, mom, they give free art supplies and she
Speaker 1: was so excited. And I think that's because, you know,
Speaker 1: just because I buy things that I want or I
Speaker 1: worked hard to get all this, it doesn't mean it's
Speaker 1: a free for all, and I have all these rules
Speaker 1: that you know, if you really want something, you have
Speaker 1: to give something up or you have to work for it.
Speaker 1: And it is a discipline, like I do really work
Speaker 1: really hard, and I do have to pull on the
Speaker 1: reins a lot, and I like that. I think it's
Speaker 1: like it feels like a project, Like your kids are
Speaker 1: the best possible project. It's you get such a ROI
Speaker 1: on the time you invest in them and these kind
Speaker 1: of principles, and you can be struggling financially and have
Speaker 1: spoiled kids.
Speaker 2: For sure, entitled spoiled. You know, it happens, It can
Speaker 2: happen to it can happen to kids anywhere.
Speaker 3: Yeah, really it really absolutely.
Speaker 2: Entitlement is I think the worst, the worst element of it.
Speaker 2: But I also think that they take their cues from
Speaker 2: their parents. And you know, I work my ass.
Speaker 3: Off and and so yeah, so.
Speaker 2: Does Cheryl Oh. I mean she, I mean she literally
Speaker 2: this week flew to Washington for her jewelry business, came
Speaker 2: home last night, flew to Arizona and came home and
Speaker 2: she's out there on the floor selling Neiman Marcus, doing
Speaker 2: her thing.
Speaker 1: It's like she's have to do that no, but yeah,
Speaker 1: and have you ever like, was there? It's my turn
Speaker 1: in your relationship because it's been very much about you
Speaker 1: and your career. Was there. It's my turn after her,
Speaker 1: you know, helping you raise the kids and all that.
Speaker 1: Or it's just always been an ebb and flow.
Speaker 2: It's always been that way. I mean, one of the
Speaker 2: reasons I married her was she had this and remains.
Speaker 2: She has the strongest work ethic of anybody I've ever known.
Speaker 2: And that's saying something because mine is strong. And so
Speaker 2: whether it's raising the raising the kids, or starting a
Speaker 2: makeup line, or or building the homes that we have,
Speaker 2: or the or then she had, she also has from
Speaker 2: time to time built for other people.
Speaker 3: She always has always worked, she will always work.
Speaker 1: Interesting and so your work ethic comes from your upbringing
Speaker 1: and your family, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But part of it I think is listen, I
Speaker 2: think part of its genetic because my mom was sort
Speaker 2: of very artsy and not really a worker. My dad
Speaker 2: is eighty four and still goes into the office, uh
Speaker 2: you know, uh practices law. My grandpa, who is very
Speaker 2: close to my mom's side, just a eighth grade education,
Speaker 2: you know, it became the first millionaire in his city,
Speaker 2: you know, so it's it's kind of I think it's
Speaker 2: kind of in the DNA a little bit.
Speaker 1: Maybe, So you were always working your ass off, like
Speaker 1: you're working as hard as you were when you were younger,
Speaker 1: Like you were always this way.
Speaker 2: Paper routes, you know, bus boy. I mean, I did
Speaker 2: get fired from every job that I had that wasn't
Speaker 2: around show business because I'm not really cut out for
Speaker 2: the real world, Bethany.
Speaker 1: But but you're cut out for show business, and well,
Speaker 1: I guess real estate, you're cut out for non traditional business.
Speaker 3: Yes, I am. I designed first of all. I had
Speaker 3: designed my entire life to try to not deal with math.
Speaker 3: And you know, listen.
Speaker 2: That I'm really good on the other side of my
Speaker 2: brain and I've I've really learned a lot about I
Speaker 2: can get by with numbers, obviously, because you have to
Speaker 2: if you're going to be in any kind of a business.
Speaker 2: But I avoid it. It's not my jam.
Speaker 3: I don't like it. I appreciate people who do.
Speaker 2: I'm very much a creative person with a you know
Speaker 2: what It's like people say, do you sing? It's like
Speaker 2: I'm an actor who sings, which is very different than
Speaker 2: being a singer.
Speaker 3: Who acts or a singer.
Speaker 2: M h. And it's that way that way with business.
Speaker 2: I am a storyteller, entertainer, producer, director who also is
Speaker 2: in business.
Speaker 1: Right right right when you were partying, how could you
Speaker 1: have that same work ethic or you were just partying
Speaker 1: and then you would wake up and you would just
Speaker 1: be hurting a little bit. You always had the same
Speaker 1: work ethic, just exhausted a little stripped.
Speaker 2: Exactly when I'm out of you know, dan seteria at
Speaker 2: the Hampton's till you know, four o'clock in the morning
Speaker 2: and I got to get up to shoot Masquerade, you
Speaker 2: just you suck it up and.
Speaker 1: Go, yeah, yeah, I gets that.
Speaker 2: You know. Also it's a little bit of like you
Speaker 2: emulate your idols, and you know, my idols today are
Speaker 2: really really different than they were then.
Speaker 3: But then you know, it.
Speaker 2: Was like Jack Nicholson Man, he's out partying on he's
Speaker 2: at the Roxy, you know, the shades on at two am,
Speaker 2: and then he's on the set of the Witches of
Speaker 2: east Wick, Man's Courtside of the Laker Games. It lives
Speaker 2: up in Mohuland, and he's got seventeen girlfriends. Man.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like that was what I thought was cool.
Speaker 4: Mm hmm.
Speaker 1: Yeah, in many ways, I don't. The younger generation. I
Speaker 1: worry about them, but not in that way. I think
Speaker 1: they're more evolved in wanting to feel good and drinking
Speaker 1: macha and asai, and whether it all works or not,
Speaker 1: I don't know. But they're aware of like well being
Speaker 1: in balance where we were not. But I'm the same
Speaker 1: as you. It's a prose play, hurt model, tough.
Speaker 2: Shit one to one Honda, same with my same with
Speaker 2: my wife. Same and and you know little and John Ohen,
Speaker 2: my my acting son. Uh, you know, he's he's very
Speaker 2: open about it. He's also sober, and he was the same.
Speaker 2: He was like pros play hurt right, work hard, play hard.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but yeah, but now it doesn't have to be
Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be so exhausting. It's okay to
Speaker 1: feel good. So sobriety is a major, major role in.
Speaker 2: Your career and in our family's life, for sure major.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't have anything without it, really what it is is,
Speaker 2: I think it would have been just the law of
Speaker 2: diminishing returns, and I would have been like the frog
Speaker 2: that slowly gets boiled alive in.
Speaker 3: The in the in the in the water.
Speaker 2: As you incrementally you know, can't feel it, and just yeah,
Speaker 2: that would have been me with my you know, personal
Speaker 2: life and career.
Speaker 1: Like death by a thousand paper cuts. It was just like, yeah,
Speaker 1: well that's Was it really hard to quit everything or
Speaker 1: was it? Like they're different, They're fifty shades of addiction.
Speaker 1: I've taken classes on it. And some people our bingers.
Speaker 1: Some people are just always in their life. They call
Speaker 1: it a French type alcoholic, and some people really hit rock.
Speaker 1: So what was your relationship to substances?
Speaker 2: Mine was, I was kind of a periodic, they would say.
Speaker 2: And so you're, you know, you're up at Charlie Sheen's
Speaker 2: pool and you got your coronas and you're you're working out.
Speaker 3: At the gym.
Speaker 2: You's being tough, and then you have a couple of
Speaker 2: coronas and then the next thing you know, you're you know,
Speaker 2: you're you're you're looking for the blow or whatever, maybe
Speaker 2: because it's nighttime and you go out to and then
Speaker 2: you're chasing girls around and you're it's like you're twenty
Speaker 2: you're nineteen, twenty twenty one years old.
Speaker 3: And and that was.
Speaker 2: Sort of the vibe for me, and I just at
Speaker 2: a certain point realized that I was never going to
Speaker 2: have the life I wanted continuing that. And so when
Speaker 2: I was ready, I went to Sierra Tucson and and
Speaker 2: it was the best thing I ever did.
Speaker 3: And I actually loved being in rehab. I loved it.
Speaker 3: I learned so much. I was always a pleasure to
Speaker 3: have in class.
Speaker 2: In school, I was in the front. I'm in the
Speaker 2: front row raising my hand. That was always me. And
Speaker 2: I was the same in rehab. And I learned a
Speaker 2: ton And you know, you know, by the grace of God,
Speaker 2: I've never had to slip. I've never had to go back.
Speaker 2: I got from the minute I got sober, I've stayed sober.
Speaker 2: I was thirty three years ago.
Speaker 1: Because you work your ass off, so you work your
Speaker 1: ass But is it is it a struggle now or
Speaker 1: it's just is what it is?
Speaker 2: Right, it's in my DNA, it's being you know, having
Speaker 2: the ism is a struggle because it's like whack a mole. Yeah,
Speaker 2: like every decade there's I realized that it's morphed into
Speaker 2: something else that I need to look at and like,
Speaker 2: right now, this is going to sound insane, but I
Speaker 2: know it's driven from the same thing. It's waking up
Speaker 2: at midnight and going, you know what, you need to
Speaker 2: go to the kitchen and binge on some hogindaws.
Speaker 1: It's noise. The noise is in a different area. Now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, some people it's gambling. Some people it's sex.
Speaker 2: Some people it's uh workaholism. Yeah, some people it's overtraining.
Speaker 2: I mean it yeah, never goes away. It just moves
Speaker 2: and just hopefully it moves into stuff that's less and
Speaker 2: less harmful and easier and easier to deal with.
Speaker 1: Mine is organizing and getting rid of. It's obsessive. It's
Speaker 1: it's insane. I mean, it's that that's mine.
Speaker 3: Are you a collector or getting get rid of.
Speaker 1: I'm not a hoarder at all, but I Freud would
Speaker 1: have a field day with me walking into this accidental
Speaker 1: influencer business and everybody sending me everything, and so there's
Speaker 1: a curiosity about it. And also I like to purchase.
Speaker 1: I'm a purchaser of certain things that I do collect,
Speaker 1: and then I just get overwhelmed by that we really
Speaker 1: don't need so much and why is this all here?
Speaker 1: And I just wanted to you know, But it's definitely
Speaker 1: not a hoarders. I have the most organized, the macular
Speaker 1: house you could imagine. But it's just I'm just as
Speaker 1: too much in coming out going stuff, you know, Like
Speaker 1: that's why I wouldn't be good at really being an
Speaker 1: interior designer, because it would be too noisy for me
Speaker 1: to have like a J. Dart or candles or art.
Speaker 1: Like I don't want like a storage facility of any
Speaker 1: shit ever. I want it out. So that's a sickness.
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, it's good. I like it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a good one. It's not. It's like working
Speaker 1: at It's good because I could come into your house
Speaker 1: and organize it and you'd be so happy.
Speaker 2: It's so funny you say that, because again, one of
Speaker 2: the things about my wife that I remember, you know,
Speaker 2: and I was actively dating big time and she was
Speaker 2: among the people that I was seeing, and she came
Speaker 2: over and organized my coffee table, the books on my
Speaker 2: coffee table. As long as I live, no one else
Speaker 2: done that.
Speaker 1: That's nice.
Speaker 3: No one else's never done that.
Speaker 1: That's hilarious. Well, your marriage is a big part of
Speaker 1: your identity too, and you seem to be pretty good
Speaker 1: at it. No marriage is perfect, But I'm asking if like,
Speaker 1: you've had serious bumps to make us all feel better
Speaker 1: about our miserable lives, or have you not?
Speaker 2: And this is one of the reasons why, you know,
Speaker 2: to the extent that I ever hesitate to talk about it.
Speaker 2: The temptation is that, oh, well, it must be perfect,
Speaker 2: and well, sure, anybody can be married for thirty three
Speaker 2: years if it's perfect and there aren't any struggles or
Speaker 2: you know, and that's not the case.
Speaker 3: I mean, it just isn't, you know.
Speaker 2: Every it's it's no different than a long career. If
Speaker 2: you are in a long marriage or if you're in
Speaker 2: a long career, by definition, you're going to have those
Speaker 2: fallow periods because nothing in life remains the same. Nothing nothing, nothing, nothing,
Speaker 2: stock market, business relationships, they all have their ups and downs.
Speaker 2: And I think the difference is both in careers and marriages,
Speaker 2: is how you react when they're down.
Speaker 1: And that's an amazing point.
Speaker 2: And that's the difference. That is literally the difference in
Speaker 2: a long career, short career, or a long marriage or
Speaker 2: a short marriage is what do you do?
Speaker 3: Do you run? Do you blame? Can you live in acceptance?
Speaker 3: Can you change?
Speaker 2: Can the other person change? Can you forgive? Can you
Speaker 2: take responsibility all of those things, and a lot of
Speaker 2: people can't do any of them.
Speaker 1: It's a great point. And do you lean in and
Speaker 1: be like all right, let's let's work this thing through,
Speaker 1: or like you.
Speaker 3: Said, we work hard.
Speaker 2: Listen, we do marriage therapy even when we don't quote
Speaker 2: unquote need it.
Speaker 1: You want to lock the door so you don't get robbed.
Speaker 2: So yeah, and it's like it's like you too, it's
Speaker 2: to you send your car and to get tuned up.
Speaker 1: So true, it's such a that's a great that's such
Speaker 1: a that's that's that's really a great note. And so
Speaker 1: you've had some serious roadblocks, like you've been canceled in
Speaker 1: a time when people didn't even get canceled. And I've
Speaker 1: thought about not even since meeting you, I've thought about
Speaker 1: that in my life. I don't know why that. I
Speaker 1: don't believe that would even be on the board for
Speaker 1: cancelation as long like things hit differently back then, and
Speaker 1: so it was look bad to me overall. On a
Speaker 1: one to ten of like your career being stratospheric, I
Speaker 1: envisioned it that your career was stratospheric. You hit a
Speaker 1: brick wall and then you were not present for a while,
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden you started to slowly
Speaker 1: come back in different types of things. That's how I
Speaker 1: perceive it. So how accurate is that.
Speaker 2: I would say that that's pretty accurate. I would say
Speaker 2: that there are two things that I think that that
Speaker 2: add to it a little more context. One is I
Speaker 2: actually think that in many ways, my ill fated appearance
Speaker 2: on the Academy Awards.
Speaker 3: Did as much damage.
Speaker 2: I was asked to open the Academy Awards and to
Speaker 2: do a song with snow White, and it felt like
Speaker 2: a really good idea at.
Speaker 3: The time, and it was a terrible idea.
Speaker 2: It was a badly conceived It was supposed to be silly,
Speaker 2: and people hated it. And then I think it Then
Speaker 2: post all of that, I got sober, went away to rehab,
Speaker 2: got serious with my wife, got married, moved out of LA.
Speaker 3: Started having kids.
Speaker 2: So I was, I mean, I'm sure it was a
Speaker 2: sort of a mutual decision in terms of Hollywood and.
Speaker 3: Me, Like I was.
Speaker 2: I look, I spent the eighties dealing work, building my career,
Speaker 2: and I spent the nineties building myself.
Speaker 1: Wow. So you so it was the bestest thing that
Speaker 1: ever happened to.
Speaker 2: You in ways not in ways, It was the best
Speaker 2: thing that ever happened to me, full stop.
Speaker 1: Do you feel like you were so like it was
Speaker 1: it was almost like a self fulfilling prophecy to fail.
Speaker 1: You feel like you were reckless and like kind of
Speaker 1: looking for something you were looking for a while to hit.
Speaker 3: One hundred percent.
Speaker 2: No, I absolutely remember feeling like, like, you know, it's
Speaker 2: it's it's it's the uh, the criminal that that once
Speaker 2: wants to be arrested.
Speaker 3: Stop.
Speaker 1: Wow. So so you were you You weren't like, oh fuck,
Speaker 1: my career is over because you take that kind of
Speaker 1: make that kind of change. Did you have a backup
Speaker 1: plan or did you know you have enough control over
Speaker 1: who you are and that you're robblow and that you
Speaker 1: can come back when you decide, Because most people like
Speaker 1: you said, if someone knocks on the door, you're going
Speaker 1: to sell your house. If you go away, you could
Speaker 1: be obsolete in the entertainment industry.
Speaker 3: I never thought about it in that way.
Speaker 2: And then I because all I was thinking about at
Speaker 2: the time when I was getting sober was it's time
Speaker 2: for me. I'm getting I'm doing this for me. I'm
Speaker 2: not doing it for my career. I'm not doing it
Speaker 2: for public consumption. I'm not doing it to stay together
Speaker 2: with my then girlfriend Cheryl, who became my wife. I
Speaker 2: was doing it for me and it was probably the
Speaker 2: first thing that I ever really did just for me ever,
Speaker 2: and it was all I could think about. It required
Speaker 2: everything and anything else that bubbled up around.
Speaker 3: It, like what about my career? What about it? I
Speaker 3: was like, don't care, right well, let the chips fall
Speaker 3: where they may. Who knows I'm.
Speaker 1: Doing It's funny. Matthew McConaughey made a similar I don't
Speaker 1: know if you read his book green Light, but he
Speaker 1: made a similar decision about like I'm not taking these
Speaker 1: like shirtless drom coms, and he stood tight. He just
Speaker 1: knew there was a moment when he had to do something,
Speaker 1: and that was my moment, was leaving the housewives. As
Speaker 1: ridiculous as that sounds, it was millions of dollars, and
Speaker 1: it was you know, my business manager said, or my
Speaker 1: someone said, trees grow high, they don't grow high to
Speaker 1: the sky. Take the millions of dollars right now until
Speaker 1: you can't get it anymore. And I made a decision
Speaker 1: to intervene, and just like this is like I've got
Speaker 1: to reinvent and do everything differently now. And it's a
Speaker 1: nice feeling. And people have to be in tune and
Speaker 1: aware and courageous enough to do that.
Speaker 2: But we'll also to hear to hear the voice inside
Speaker 2: of them and honor that. Yes, you have to be
Speaker 2: courageous on top of that to do it.
Speaker 1: What age was that at that you that you did
Speaker 1: that twenty six That was young to be making those
Speaker 1: kind of big boy decisions to be like getting going
Speaker 1: and going to rehabit, getting married.
Speaker 3: That was you?
Speaker 1: You peaked early?
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I I had a lot of life.
Speaker 2: I had more life experience than the average twenty six
Speaker 2: yearl that's for sure. I'd been more, done more, seen more,
Speaker 2: learned more. And but yes, looking back on it, it's
Speaker 2: younger than any of my kids are now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally.
Speaker 3: And I look back on it and go, what the hell?
Speaker 1: So, Lauren Michael's once said to me at dinner he
Speaker 1: was talking about somebody else on SNL or something. It
Speaker 1: wasn't about me, but I just never forget it. He said,
Speaker 1: you have to make an exit to be able to
Speaker 1: make an entrance.
Speaker 3: It's such a great It's one of my favorite laurenisms.
Speaker 1: The last two questions I have people have given me
Speaker 1: one piece of advice, like I don't fix them, I
Speaker 1: fix me, or every day we check in once a day.
Speaker 1: These things that I sometimes say, oh god, well I
Speaker 1: don't do that, Like what is your thing that you
Speaker 1: guys do that seems simple to you but would help
Speaker 1: other people in relationships?
Speaker 2: Well, there's two things. The number one thing is, let's
Speaker 2: hope you've chosen right to begin with.
Speaker 3: Because.
Speaker 2: Really the die is cast with who you choose, because,
Speaker 2: as you allude to in the advice, you can't change
Speaker 2: another person.
Speaker 3: Changing yourself is hard.
Speaker 2: It's like Cheryl and I are simpotico on so many things, money, politics,
Speaker 2: where we want to go on vacations. Uniforms are not
Speaker 2: uniforms in schools.
Speaker 3: I mean you name it.
Speaker 2: Not name the list of from the from the banal
Speaker 2: to the really intense. And I am going to be
Speaker 2: on the exact same page with her all the time.
Speaker 2: Now we happen to disagree on something very important to me. Comedy.
Speaker 3: Cheryl Lowe does not understand comedy.
Speaker 1: She doesn't and what do you mean she doesn't understand
Speaker 1: common like she does? She not think you were funny
Speaker 1: because I know couples that were one person's funny and
Speaker 1: the other person doesn't think they're funny. Does she think
Speaker 1: you're funny?
Speaker 3: She's smart enough to know that other people think I'm funny. See, yes,
Speaker 3: no she doesn't. She's a horrible laugh for me. She's
Speaker 3: a black hole.
Speaker 2: Oh in my one man shows, and it's a it's
Speaker 2: a running joke amongst our friends and family.
Speaker 3: So like, by the way, for some people, that would
Speaker 3: be a barrier to entry.
Speaker 1: One hundred percent. I'm a comedy snob. And would you
Speaker 1: think she is? She funny?
Speaker 3: No? See? Wow, here's another thing.
Speaker 2: And I've had I had, I had one girlfriend in particular.
Speaker 2: All we did was laugh. It was fucking amazing. But
Speaker 2: you know what, it's it's fine, It's it's she would
Speaker 2: have been, by the way, a terrible wife and a
Speaker 2: terrible life partner, right, you know.
Speaker 3: She just doesn't like Bruce Springsteen and her music.
Speaker 2: I feel like I can feel the pot smoke in
Speaker 2: the air when I listen to the music.
Speaker 1: That's my fiance, Paul. It's say, it's like fish and
Speaker 1: Grateful Dead. Yeah, and it's funny. But the music, the
Speaker 1: music and the comedy those aren't what I call in
Speaker 1: a book that I wrote called I Suck at relationships.
Speaker 1: So you don't have to fundamental differences. I believe you
Speaker 1: can't have fundamental differences by and large, like the things
Speaker 1: that were you know, just like you said, the way
Speaker 1: you parent money, things like that, like values, core values.
Speaker 1: And then the last question is what was your rose
Speaker 1: and your thorn of your career?
Speaker 3: Ooh, I think the rose continues to be the rose,
Speaker 3: which is I.
Speaker 2: For whatever reason, I have been able to plant my
Speaker 2: flag in the comedy world and the drama world, and
Speaker 2: I also have not been pigeonholed in that I can
Speaker 2: do funny commercials for Direct TV, and I can do
Speaker 2: a serious drama in the West End in London, and
Speaker 2: I can produce and do a game show.
Speaker 3: I can.
Speaker 2: I kind of get to do whatever. I can write
Speaker 2: best selling books, I can. I could kind of do
Speaker 2: whatever I think is interesting and that I'm going to
Speaker 2: learn from without it bumping people, when people saying what
Speaker 2: the hell and people accepting it. So to me, that's
Speaker 2: the that's if there's a rose, that's the rose and
Speaker 2: the thorn.
Speaker 3: Probably.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm such an optimist it's hard for me
Speaker 2: to even think of what the thorn is, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I think the thorn is more systemic, and I think
Speaker 2: the thorn is just that the business is so much
Speaker 2: harder than it's ever been.
Speaker 3: It's it's it's harder on every level.
Speaker 1: And you work hard because it's just who you are.
Speaker 1: You're not necessarily working towards something like you're just always
Speaker 1: setting new goals and you just like to work. It's
Speaker 1: the journey.
Speaker 3: It's it's for sure the journey.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think the minute you thinking go, ah,
Speaker 2: well I've done it, or well i've really I don't.
Speaker 2: I never allow myself to I feel exactly the same
Speaker 2: as I did at the beginning of my career. Other
Speaker 2: than I also will allow myself to look back and
Speaker 2: see how far I've come.
Speaker 1: We're the same age. I think you got a second
Speaker 1: wind because I got a second wind. Like sometimes you
Speaker 1: think maybe it's a little exhausting and I want to
Speaker 1: rest a little, and I maybe near done. And I
Speaker 1: don't know if that's like self defense or something, you
Speaker 1: know what, any self protection. But I've caught a big
Speaker 1: wind and it feels good. And I think it's this age.
Speaker 1: You know, it's like not a midlife crisis. It's just
Speaker 1: like a reinvigoration and really fine tuning, like sharpening the
Speaker 1: knife so you don't have to waste time. I'm swimming
Speaker 1: with your arms and legs, wasting all this energy. You're
Speaker 1: like right hooked in.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: The other thing is I don't. I definitely experience and
Speaker 2: and and and life has gotten me to a place
Speaker 2: where I also really know where I'm valuable and what
Speaker 2: my value is.
Speaker 3: I'm not.
Speaker 2: I'm not suffering fools anymore anymore. I really did, and
Speaker 2: and I know even though I'm super diverse and what
Speaker 2: I'm interested in, I also know my lane, if.
Speaker 3: That makes any sense.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I kind of a counterintuitive, but but but I
Speaker 2: really know, like where what moves the needle for me.
Speaker 1: Well that's kind of what I mean. You don't need
Speaker 1: to fuck around and waste time, like you know what
Speaker 1: you're supposed to do. You'll take chances if you're inspired.
Speaker 1: But like it's a quality versus quantity model. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: love it. I love meeting you, talking to you and
Speaker 1: knowing you and versa. Really, so we're friends now. And
Speaker 1: when I'm in Santa Barbara, I'm coming over.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll show you. I'll show you the real estate.
Speaker 2: I mean we need, yes, you need, as they say,
Speaker 2: a footprint over here.
Speaker 1: I think, yes, I do. I love it. My daughter
Speaker 1: loves it. So so amazing talking to you. Thank you
Speaker 1: for having me on your show, and thank you for
Speaker 1: coming online. And give my love to your family.
Speaker 3: I will. And this is great. It was. It was
Speaker 3: so fun to be a guest.
Speaker 1: It's different for you.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, it's this is this is the best.
Speaker 1: I mean, you're a good guest. You're a very good guest.
Speaker 3: Oh good. Yeah, I haven't lost it by being a
Speaker 3: host for so long.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: No, you're a very good host and you're a very
Speaker 1: good guest. So that's awesome. Yeah, really good. That's why
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk forever. You're just a very good guests.
Speaker 1: So thank you for talking to me.
Speaker 3: Thank you. It's great being here.
Speaker 1: I was on Rob Low's podcast and I really liked him.
Speaker 1: He's a good talker, he's a good listener. He's evolved,
Speaker 1: he is emotionally intelligent, he is a hard worker, he's
Speaker 1: very inspirational, and I really really enjoyed doing his podcast.
Speaker 1: And I'm honored and humbled that he wanted to do mine,
Speaker 1: you know, as a result of that conversation, because I
Speaker 1: do think that sometimes people think I'm just some nitwit
Speaker 1: reality star, and there are just some times that people
Speaker 1: come on and I feel like I'm not worthy. And
Speaker 1: it was exciting to have him on, and I thought
Speaker 1: he was extraordinary, as good a guest as he as
Speaker 1: a host.