WEBVTT - CZM Rewind: The White Wolf & White Guns for Hire

0:00:01.680 --> 0:00:07.720
<v Speaker 1>Cool Zone Media.

0:00:09.800 --> 0:00:14.640
<v Speaker 2>Hello everyone, Molly here, Welcome back to the second of

0:00:14.720 --> 0:00:18.360
<v Speaker 2>four installments of the holiday reruns here on Weird Little Guys.

0:00:19.640 --> 0:00:22.680
<v Speaker 2>Since Christmas and New Year's Day are both Thursdays this year,

0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:25.200
<v Speaker 2>I was going to have to run two reruns in

0:00:25.239 --> 0:00:30.479
<v Speaker 2>a row. Instead of picking two random reruns, I'm using

0:00:30.480 --> 0:00:33.480
<v Speaker 2>this opportunity to run my favorite mini series of the year,

0:00:34.520 --> 0:00:36.840
<v Speaker 2>the eight episodes I wrote back in the spring about

0:00:36.840 --> 0:00:40.040
<v Speaker 2>the international networks of right wing extremists who were trying

0:00:40.040 --> 0:00:44.360
<v Speaker 2>to hold onto a part time in South Africa. The

0:00:44.400 --> 0:00:46.879
<v Speaker 2>first two episodes popped up on Your Feet on Tuesday,

0:00:47.520 --> 0:00:51.920
<v Speaker 2>making this episodes three and four of that series. The

0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:55.720
<v Speaker 2>episodes The White Wolf and White Guns for Hire originally

0:00:55.800 --> 0:01:00.280
<v Speaker 2>aired on March twentieth and March twenty seventh. For this

0:01:00.320 --> 0:01:03.200
<v Speaker 2>section of the story, I don't really have an update

0:01:03.320 --> 0:01:07.760
<v Speaker 2>or a correction, but I do have more clues, more

0:01:07.800 --> 0:01:11.400
<v Speaker 2>information that sort of hints at possibilities I just can't

0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:16.240
<v Speaker 2>prove yet. When I first started digging into Monica Huggett Stone,

0:01:17.000 --> 0:01:19.440
<v Speaker 2>there was this curious claim that she was a member

0:01:19.480 --> 0:01:23.800
<v Speaker 2>of the American ku Klux Klan. And when I was

0:01:23.840 --> 0:01:26.240
<v Speaker 2>writing about this back in the spring, I went to

0:01:26.840 --> 0:01:29.560
<v Speaker 2>great lengths to try to figure out exactly what that

0:01:29.640 --> 0:01:35.800
<v Speaker 2>might mean. I found some interesting history involving a South

0:01:35.800 --> 0:01:38.479
<v Speaker 2>African anti Semite who claimed to be running a clan

0:01:38.520 --> 0:01:41.800
<v Speaker 2>group in South Africa a few years before Monica would

0:01:41.800 --> 0:01:45.600
<v Speaker 2>have been involved, and that helped a little bit. Gave

0:01:45.640 --> 0:01:50.800
<v Speaker 2>me some context, but it didn't actually directly connect her

0:01:50.840 --> 0:01:54.400
<v Speaker 2>to anything. It didn't explain how she became pen pals

0:01:54.440 --> 0:01:58.080
<v Speaker 2>with an American clansmen in the late nineteen seventies when

0:01:58.080 --> 0:02:01.520
<v Speaker 2>she was helping those Italian terrorists build that bomb in Johannesburg.

0:02:03.200 --> 0:02:06.280
<v Speaker 2>But in the months since, someone was kind enough to

0:02:06.280 --> 0:02:10.200
<v Speaker 2>send me a newspaper clipping, one I wish i'd had then.

0:02:12.080 --> 0:02:15.280
<v Speaker 2>This was a recurring theme throughout the series. I really

0:02:15.360 --> 0:02:19.640
<v Speaker 2>had to get creative in finding source material. It isn't

0:02:19.639 --> 0:02:22.919
<v Speaker 2>easy to find newspaper archives in another language from another

0:02:22.960 --> 0:02:28.040
<v Speaker 2>continent from decades ago. I found more than I expected,

0:02:28.880 --> 0:02:31.920
<v Speaker 2>but there were always gaps in my timeline that I

0:02:32.040 --> 0:02:34.840
<v Speaker 2>had a good feeling could be filled in if I

0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:37.600
<v Speaker 2>just had more access to South African newspapers from the

0:02:37.639 --> 0:02:41.320
<v Speaker 2>time period. And this clipping is exactly the kind of

0:02:41.360 --> 0:02:45.160
<v Speaker 2>thing that would have saved me like twenty hours of frustration.

0:02:47.120 --> 0:02:51.200
<v Speaker 2>In nineteen eighty one, Monica's mother told a reporter that

0:02:51.240 --> 0:02:55.919
<v Speaker 2>Monica had been corresponding with an American pastor for years

0:02:57.639 --> 0:03:01.680
<v Speaker 2>and the pastor's name was one do you know? It

0:03:01.720 --> 0:03:07.639
<v Speaker 2>was Robert Miles by the mid nineteen seventies, which seems

0:03:07.680 --> 0:03:11.040
<v Speaker 2>like it may have been when they started writing. Miles

0:03:11.080 --> 0:03:15.880
<v Speaker 2>no longer publicly claimed clan membership, but he had been

0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:18.240
<v Speaker 2>a grand Dragon in the Klan in Michigan in the past,

0:03:19.160 --> 0:03:23.120
<v Speaker 2>and even after he transitioned away from publicly identifying as

0:03:23.120 --> 0:03:27.800
<v Speaker 2>a klansman, he was still hanging out with klansmen, plotting

0:03:27.800 --> 0:03:30.280
<v Speaker 2>to blow up school buses to prevent integration in a

0:03:30.360 --> 0:03:34.560
<v Speaker 2>very clan like fashion, and writing essays that were published

0:03:34.600 --> 0:03:38.920
<v Speaker 2>in the inter Clan newsletter. What I'm saying is he

0:03:38.960 --> 0:03:42.520
<v Speaker 2>was still involved with the clan. So even though his

0:03:42.640 --> 0:03:46.600
<v Speaker 2>primary focus was his Christian identity church, he could very

0:03:46.640 --> 0:03:51.400
<v Speaker 2>well have been Monica's American Clan contact, And if he wasn't,

0:03:51.920 --> 0:03:55.160
<v Speaker 2>he was almost certainly her introduction to whichever Klansman it

0:03:55.320 --> 0:04:00.000
<v Speaker 2>was who did mail her that bomb making manual. Notably,

0:04:00.640 --> 0:04:03.920
<v Speaker 2>both Robert Miles and Monica Huggett were connected to the

0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:07.840
<v Speaker 2>American Ku Klux Klan in the nineteen seventies, and they

0:04:07.880 --> 0:04:11.800
<v Speaker 2>both ended up moving on to the Aryan Nations. Miles

0:04:11.840 --> 0:04:14.560
<v Speaker 2>died in nineteen ninety two, but in the nineteen eighties

0:04:14.720 --> 0:04:18.120
<v Speaker 2>he was a regional leader in the Aryan Nations. And

0:04:18.760 --> 0:04:21.960
<v Speaker 2>you know where this whole story started. When Monica moved

0:04:21.960 --> 0:04:24.800
<v Speaker 2>to the United States, she was a leading member of

0:04:24.839 --> 0:04:29.120
<v Speaker 2>the Aryan Nations group operating out of Louisiana. So those

0:04:29.120 --> 0:04:35.040
<v Speaker 2>are interesting parallel tracks, and it gives me just enough

0:04:35.080 --> 0:04:38.320
<v Speaker 2>to go on that I'm definitely going to have to

0:04:38.400 --> 0:04:42.200
<v Speaker 2>keep digging. I mean, I have to write about Robert

0:04:42.200 --> 0:04:53.200
<v Speaker 2>Miles eventually. Anyway. On August tenth, nineteen eighty nine, around

0:04:53.279 --> 0:04:57.120
<v Speaker 2>nine thirty pm, a white sedan pulled up outside the

0:04:57.240 --> 0:05:02.240
<v Speaker 2>United Nations Transition Assistance Groups Straitive headquarters in aut Yo,

0:05:03.040 --> 0:05:06.960
<v Speaker 2>a town in northern Namibia. It had what appeared to

0:05:07.000 --> 0:05:10.640
<v Speaker 2>be UN issued license plates and the United Nations emblem

0:05:10.640 --> 0:05:13.640
<v Speaker 2>was painted on the side, so perhaps it didn't look

0:05:13.640 --> 0:05:18.800
<v Speaker 2>out of place there at first. Initial reports say witnesses

0:05:18.800 --> 0:05:23.720
<v Speaker 2>saw three men dressed in green camouflage uniforms. The UN

0:05:23.760 --> 0:05:26.919
<v Speaker 2>Transition Assistance Group had arrived in Namibia four months earlier,

0:05:27.600 --> 0:05:32.159
<v Speaker 2>authorized by UN Resolution four thirty five. The resolution had

0:05:32.200 --> 0:05:35.560
<v Speaker 2>actually been adopted over a decade earlier, but it took

0:05:35.560 --> 0:05:37.640
<v Speaker 2>that entire decade to get all parties to come to

0:05:37.680 --> 0:05:41.520
<v Speaker 2>the table. The Transition Assistance Group was there to ensure

0:05:41.560 --> 0:05:45.000
<v Speaker 2>the ceasefire was honored, that South African troops would withdraw

0:05:45.000 --> 0:05:48.320
<v Speaker 2>from Namibia, and that the upcoming election would be free

0:05:48.320 --> 0:05:52.679
<v Speaker 2>and fair. Those first four months had not been without incident,

0:05:53.480 --> 0:05:56.480
<v Speaker 2>but a ceasefire was re established Over the summer. The

0:05:56.520 --> 0:06:00.520
<v Speaker 2>South African military was withdrawing s planned and UN officials

0:06:00.520 --> 0:06:04.160
<v Speaker 2>were making progress on disarming and disbanding the citizen militias

0:06:04.279 --> 0:06:08.240
<v Speaker 2>paid by the South African government. If things continued on

0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:11.360
<v Speaker 2>this path, it was looking good for the November elections.

0:06:12.800 --> 0:06:15.800
<v Speaker 2>But not everyone was on board with UN Resolution four

0:06:15.960 --> 0:06:21.160
<v Speaker 2>thirty five. One small group in particular, calling itself Axi

0:06:21.279 --> 0:06:25.839
<v Speaker 2>Kontra four three five Action against four thirty five, did

0:06:25.920 --> 0:06:32.719
<v Speaker 2>just what the name implies. They took action. When those

0:06:32.720 --> 0:06:34.960
<v Speaker 2>men in green camos stepped out of their car outside

0:06:35.000 --> 0:06:38.600
<v Speaker 2>the UN offices in Autyo that night, they opened fire

0:06:38.640 --> 0:06:43.720
<v Speaker 2>with automatic weapons hand grenades caused extensive damage to the buildings.

0:06:44.400 --> 0:06:49.400
<v Speaker 2>Both the administrative offices and the sleeping quarters. A security

0:06:49.400 --> 0:06:53.200
<v Speaker 2>guard named Michael Hoseg was killed in the attack, but

0:06:53.240 --> 0:06:56.599
<v Speaker 2>the men fled into the night without finishing the mission.

0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:05.240
<v Speaker 2>The entire cell was arrested fairly quickly, and authorities found

0:07:05.240 --> 0:07:08.080
<v Speaker 2>a massive arsenal of guns and explosives the group planned

0:07:08.080 --> 0:07:11.200
<v Speaker 2>to use in future attacks on United Nations targets with

0:07:11.320 --> 0:07:14.840
<v Speaker 2>the goal of stopping the upcoming elections. And those men

0:07:14.880 --> 0:07:17.520
<v Speaker 2>were in custody in November when the elections were held,

0:07:18.960 --> 0:07:23.920
<v Speaker 2>but they didn't stay there. They escaped. They'd failed to

0:07:23.920 --> 0:07:28.960
<v Speaker 2>prevent Namibian independence, but now the fight was in South Africa,

0:07:29.200 --> 0:07:32.320
<v Speaker 2>and they would do everything in their power to prevent

0:07:32.400 --> 0:07:39.080
<v Speaker 2>the end of apartheime. I'm Molly Conger, and this is

0:07:39.120 --> 0:07:59.000
<v Speaker 2>where the were guides. This is still the story of

0:07:59.120 --> 0:08:03.040
<v Speaker 2>Monica hugget'st the elderly South African woman who was living

0:08:03.040 --> 0:08:06.680
<v Speaker 2>in Mandeville, Louisiana, when she organized a series of nationwide

0:08:06.720 --> 0:08:10.560
<v Speaker 2>Nazi rallies in twenty twelve. But she isn't in this

0:08:10.640 --> 0:08:14.000
<v Speaker 2>part of the story because I can't tell you about

0:08:14.040 --> 0:08:17.119
<v Speaker 2>the international network of mercenaries she was organizing in nineteen

0:08:17.200 --> 0:08:21.000
<v Speaker 2>ninety four without telling you a little bit more about

0:08:21.040 --> 0:08:24.480
<v Speaker 2>some of those men, who they were and what they

0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:26.120
<v Speaker 2>were up to in the years leading up to that

0:08:26.200 --> 0:08:28.360
<v Speaker 2>deadly shootout with the police on the eve of the

0:08:28.400 --> 0:08:32.480
<v Speaker 2>South African elections. I know I don't have to make

0:08:32.520 --> 0:08:36.600
<v Speaker 2>excuses for this meandering narrative. It's my story and I'll

0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:39.360
<v Speaker 2>tell it the only way I know how. I never

0:08:39.400 --> 0:08:41.480
<v Speaker 2>know where we're going when I start putting my notes together,

0:08:41.559 --> 0:08:44.840
<v Speaker 2>and I really can't help but chase down this seemingly

0:08:44.920 --> 0:08:49.840
<v Speaker 2>infinite number of surprisingly deep rabbit holes. And I'm so

0:08:50.080 --> 0:08:55.360
<v Speaker 2>fascinated by this international network. It's come up a bit

0:08:55.679 --> 0:08:59.679
<v Speaker 2>in other stories. Dennis Mahon and Tom Metzger had close

0:08:59.720 --> 0:09:03.360
<v Speaker 2>ties with Heritage Front in Canada. In the early nineties,

0:09:03.360 --> 0:09:06.480
<v Speaker 2>Denis Mayhon flew to Germany to show German Neo Nazis

0:09:06.520 --> 0:09:09.480
<v Speaker 2>a good old fashioned American ku Klux clan cross burning,

0:09:10.280 --> 0:09:12.839
<v Speaker 2>and he gave fiery speeches stoking the flames of the

0:09:12.880 --> 0:09:16.120
<v Speaker 2>anti immigrant riots that were exploding across Germany at the time.

0:09:17.840 --> 0:09:20.280
<v Speaker 2>The week before Dennis started making that bomb that he

0:09:20.360 --> 0:09:23.080
<v Speaker 2>went to prison for, he'd been hanging out with an

0:09:23.160 --> 0:09:26.520
<v Speaker 2>Ulster Unionist who'd carried out bombings in Northern Ireland during

0:09:26.559 --> 0:09:32.079
<v Speaker 2>the troubles, British Holocaust denied David Irving traveled regularly to

0:09:32.120 --> 0:09:36.240
<v Speaker 2>the United States to network with American white supremacists. Frank

0:09:36.280 --> 0:09:38.800
<v Speaker 2>Sweeney joined the American Nazi Party in New Jersey as

0:09:38.800 --> 0:09:42.560
<v Speaker 2>a teenager and later joined the Rhodesian Army as a mercenary.

0:09:43.360 --> 0:09:46.400
<v Speaker 2>Members of American white supremacist groups like the Base Adam

0:09:46.440 --> 0:09:49.720
<v Speaker 2>Waffen and the Rise Above movement and its spinoff active clubs,

0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:53.560
<v Speaker 2>have a particular fondness for traveling to Ukraine to fight

0:09:53.600 --> 0:09:57.680
<v Speaker 2>with far right groups like the azof Battalion. Patriot Front.

0:09:57.720 --> 0:10:00.599
<v Speaker 2>Flags have popped up at neo Nazi marches and Poland,

0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:03.320
<v Speaker 2>and its members have met with leaders of foreign fascist

0:10:03.320 --> 0:10:06.000
<v Speaker 2>groups like the Nordic Resistance Movement in Sweden and Cossa

0:10:06.080 --> 0:10:09.480
<v Speaker 2>Pound in Italy. One of the young men arrested in

0:10:09.520 --> 0:10:12.440
<v Speaker 2>connection with the Terogram Collective was taken into custody at

0:10:12.480 --> 0:10:15.440
<v Speaker 2>the airport before he could board a flight to Ukraine

0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:20.960
<v Speaker 2>to join the Russian Volunteer Corps. The fascists, racists, and

0:10:21.040 --> 0:10:26.360
<v Speaker 2>anti Semites of the world are obsessed with borders, but

0:10:26.400 --> 0:10:30.000
<v Speaker 2>they don't seem to mind crossing them, So that's what

0:10:30.000 --> 0:10:33.559
<v Speaker 2>we're exploring. Here, and we'll find Monica again in the

0:10:33.600 --> 0:10:35.520
<v Speaker 2>next chapter of this story when she does a bit

0:10:35.559 --> 0:10:38.920
<v Speaker 2>of border crossing of her own, but that's not until

0:10:38.960 --> 0:10:46.480
<v Speaker 2>nineteen ninety four, and right now it's nineteen eighty nine.

0:10:46.679 --> 0:10:49.959
<v Speaker 2>In nineteen eighty nine, South Africa was still five years

0:10:50.000 --> 0:10:53.840
<v Speaker 2>away from ending apartheid, five years away from holding their

0:10:53.880 --> 0:10:57.880
<v Speaker 2>first election with universal suffrage, five years away from electing

0:10:57.920 --> 0:11:00.679
<v Speaker 2>Nelson Mandela as their first post of Parkment high president.

0:11:01.880 --> 0:11:04.439
<v Speaker 2>In nineteen eighty nine, Nelson Mandela was still in prison,

0:11:05.000 --> 0:11:09.360
<v Speaker 2>where he'd been since nineteen sixty two. But in nineteen

0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:13.560
<v Speaker 2>eighty nine, one of South Africa's neighbors was taking the

0:11:13.640 --> 0:11:19.160
<v Speaker 2>leap into multi racial democracy. Well. Whether or not South

0:11:19.160 --> 0:11:23.960
<v Speaker 2>Africa considered Namibia to be a neighboring country or a

0:11:24.040 --> 0:11:28.640
<v Speaker 2>country at all, depends on who you ask. The present

0:11:28.720 --> 0:11:31.280
<v Speaker 2>day nation of Namibia had been a German colony from

0:11:31.320 --> 0:11:35.280
<v Speaker 2>eighteen eighty four until nineteen fifteen. During World War One,

0:11:35.360 --> 0:11:39.720
<v Speaker 2>when everyone was a little preoccupied elsewhere, South Africa captured

0:11:39.760 --> 0:11:44.520
<v Speaker 2>the colony known as South West Africa. In nineteen sixty six,

0:11:44.600 --> 0:11:47.559
<v Speaker 2>the United Nations General Assembly passed a resolution declaring that

0:11:47.720 --> 0:11:50.040
<v Speaker 2>South Africa no longer had a right to the territory,

0:11:51.000 --> 0:11:53.839
<v Speaker 2>but South Africa continued illegally occupying the area that the

0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:59.160
<v Speaker 2>United Nations now recognized as Namibia. The conflict lasted over

0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:03.640
<v Speaker 2>two decades. The South African Border War wasn't just about

0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:07.640
<v Speaker 2>South Africa's desire to extend apartheid into this colonial territory.

0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:12.320
<v Speaker 2>It was inextricably intertwined with other conflicts in the region,

0:12:12.760 --> 0:12:16.240
<v Speaker 2>things like the Angle and Civil War. It was a

0:12:16.280 --> 0:12:19.880
<v Speaker 2>modern consequence of the nineteenth century Scramble for Africa. It

0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:23.440
<v Speaker 2>was the unraveling of a century of colonialism. It was

0:12:23.480 --> 0:12:27.760
<v Speaker 2>fueled by Cold War anxiety about communist guerrilla forces and

0:12:28.080 --> 0:12:33.439
<v Speaker 2>Soviet influence. And it was about white anxiety. If Black

0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:36.560
<v Speaker 2>Africans were allowed to participate in government, if they were,

0:12:36.840 --> 0:12:40.520
<v Speaker 2>god forbid, allowed to rule their own nations, what would

0:12:40.559 --> 0:12:45.000
<v Speaker 2>they do with that power. The whole world got in

0:12:45.040 --> 0:12:49.120
<v Speaker 2>on the action, both officially, with major power sending material

0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:54.040
<v Speaker 2>support to their preferred parties and none officially, with independent

0:12:54.040 --> 0:12:58.080
<v Speaker 2>mercenaries and shadowy state sponsored operations popping up all over

0:12:58.120 --> 0:13:03.080
<v Speaker 2>Sub Saharan Africa. But by nineteen eighty nine it was

0:13:03.120 --> 0:13:07.240
<v Speaker 2>finally time. The border war was over and Namibia was

0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:10.800
<v Speaker 2>going to have free and fair elections in November. In

0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:13.520
<v Speaker 2>April of that year, peacekeeping forces from the United Nations

0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:18.760
<v Speaker 2>Transition Assistance Group arrived to oversee the process. Namibia was

0:13:18.800 --> 0:13:24.240
<v Speaker 2>going to be an independent nation, one without apartheid, and

0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:27.119
<v Speaker 2>this was a frightening prospect for those white South Africans

0:13:27.160 --> 0:13:31.040
<v Speaker 2>trying desperately to hold onto power in an increasingly unsustainable

0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:36.800
<v Speaker 2>form of government. Now, this next part might sound like

0:13:36.800 --> 0:13:40.600
<v Speaker 2>a conspiracy theory. I tried to tread waters like this

0:13:40.679 --> 0:13:44.280
<v Speaker 2>with immense care. I nearly drove myself to madness trying

0:13:44.280 --> 0:13:47.760
<v Speaker 2>to thread the needle of fact, fiction and question marks.

0:13:48.160 --> 0:13:50.679
<v Speaker 2>When I talked about the Oklahoma City bombing a while back,

0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:56.040
<v Speaker 2>and when I started poking around this particular history, I'll

0:13:56.080 --> 0:13:59.000
<v Speaker 2>admit I didn't have a lot of context. I don't

0:13:59.000 --> 0:14:02.880
<v Speaker 2>know the landscape here, so sorting fact from speculation and

0:14:02.960 --> 0:14:07.719
<v Speaker 2>sifting out the lies is a tricky prospect. And at

0:14:07.760 --> 0:14:12.360
<v Speaker 2>first I completely dismissed the idea that these neo Nazi

0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:17.240
<v Speaker 2>terrorists could have been acting on government orders. That's Tinfoil

0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:22.320
<v Speaker 2>had territory, right. I saw the idea heavily insinuated in

0:14:22.360 --> 0:14:25.760
<v Speaker 2>some reporting from the time period. An article published in

0:14:25.840 --> 0:14:28.720
<v Speaker 2>nineteen ninety, in an issue of Frei Vigblad, a South

0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:33.000
<v Speaker 2>African newspaper with an anti apartheid stance, opened with this

0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:39.680
<v Speaker 2>fairly explosive allegation. They are fugitives accused of murder. They

0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:44.160
<v Speaker 2>come from South Africa, Britain, Namibia and Zimbabwe. They have

0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:48.360
<v Speaker 2>one common characteristic. They left a trail of destruction, death

0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:51.440
<v Speaker 2>and bloodshed in Southern Africa over the past decade, but

0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:54.760
<v Speaker 2>cannot be prosecuted. They are among the most wanted men

0:14:54.800 --> 0:14:57.240
<v Speaker 2>in our neighboring states, but enjoy the protection of the

0:14:57.280 --> 0:15:01.240
<v Speaker 2>South African government because they have worked or still work

0:15:01.840 --> 0:15:07.920
<v Speaker 2>for the security forces. But that's not proof, right. Think

0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:10.320
<v Speaker 2>about how often you see similar sentiments expressed when it

0:15:10.360 --> 0:15:14.160
<v Speaker 2>comes to American far right groups. Allegations that this group

0:15:14.280 --> 0:15:17.440
<v Speaker 2>or that one or whichever prominent white supremacist leader hasn't

0:15:17.480 --> 0:15:21.320
<v Speaker 2>been prosecuted because they're being protected by the state. And

0:15:21.360 --> 0:15:25.720
<v Speaker 2>that's always a possibility, sure, but that doesn't mean it's true.

0:15:27.400 --> 0:15:30.800
<v Speaker 2>But some of those men would themselves later claim that

0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:35.280
<v Speaker 2>they couldn't be prosecuted for murders and bombings because they'd

0:15:35.320 --> 0:15:40.320
<v Speaker 2>been acting on government orders, And again that's not proof.

0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:44.040
<v Speaker 2>I've seen that before too. Sometimes people will say anything

0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:47.760
<v Speaker 2>to avoid responsibility, and that doesn't necessarily mean it's true.

0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:54.120
<v Speaker 2>I'd been chugging along, accumulating sources and taking my notes,

0:15:54.280 --> 0:15:59.600
<v Speaker 2>translating old newspapers. I subscribed to several South African genealogical databases,

0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:04.280
<v Speaker 2>getting into the weeds here, all under the assumption that

0:16:04.320 --> 0:16:08.000
<v Speaker 2>there wasn't really a need to explore that angle. It

0:16:08.080 --> 0:16:10.600
<v Speaker 2>could be true, but it wasn't something I'd be able

0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:13.280
<v Speaker 2>to substantiate, And it's the kind of thing I'm not

0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:17.320
<v Speaker 2>comfortable exploring without something to hold on to. I don't

0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:21.080
<v Speaker 2>want to abuse your trust by speculating wildly and getting

0:16:21.120 --> 0:16:26.080
<v Speaker 2>reckless with the facts. But then I realized this is

0:16:26.120 --> 0:16:30.720
<v Speaker 2>a very unusual set of circumstances. Normally, a government would

0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:35.760
<v Speaker 2>never admit to state sponsored terrorism. They all do it,

0:16:35.840 --> 0:16:39.760
<v Speaker 2>but nobody admits it, and if you ever do prove it,

0:16:39.760 --> 0:16:43.000
<v Speaker 2>it's nothing short of a miracle. You need leaked documents

0:16:43.000 --> 0:16:47.600
<v Speaker 2>and deathbed confessions. But the South Africa of nineteen ninety

0:16:47.640 --> 0:16:51.520
<v Speaker 2>five wasn't really the same South Africa that had existed

0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:56.640
<v Speaker 2>until nineteen ninety four. This government wasn't admitting to its

0:16:56.640 --> 0:17:00.800
<v Speaker 2>own crimes the Truth and Reconciliation Commission was an unusually

0:17:00.800 --> 0:17:05.239
<v Speaker 2>transparent look at the nation's past, and they admitted it.

0:17:06.600 --> 0:17:09.320
<v Speaker 2>There is an entire chapter of the Truth and Reconciliation

0:17:09.400 --> 0:17:15.159
<v Speaker 2>Commission final report called secret State Funding. And according to

0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:19.359
<v Speaker 2>the report, Oxi Coontra four thirty five, the group behind

0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:21.520
<v Speaker 2>the attack at the UN offices in Autyo in nineteen

0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:24.760
<v Speaker 2>eighty nine, is believed to have been entirely a creation

0:17:24.960 --> 0:17:30.520
<v Speaker 2>of funded by the South African government. At least one

0:17:30.560 --> 0:17:33.000
<v Speaker 2>of the men involved was later confirmed to have been

0:17:33.000 --> 0:17:37.199
<v Speaker 2>an operative of the South African Civil Cooperation Bureau, an

0:17:37.240 --> 0:17:40.640
<v Speaker 2>odd name for what was essentially government sponsored death squads.

0:17:42.400 --> 0:17:44.760
<v Speaker 2>And I tell you that now so you can draw

0:17:44.800 --> 0:17:47.880
<v Speaker 2>your own conclusions later in the story when things get

0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:52.240
<v Speaker 2>a little murkier. So just keep that in the back

0:17:52.280 --> 0:17:57.359
<v Speaker 2>of your mind for now. It wasn't long after the

0:17:57.400 --> 0:17:59.920
<v Speaker 2>attack on Autio that members of Oxi Contra for thirty

0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:04.760
<v Speaker 2>five started getting arrested. Although the group's name disappears from

0:18:04.800 --> 0:18:08.840
<v Speaker 2>the conversation pretty quickly, the men who carried out that

0:18:08.880 --> 0:18:12.480
<v Speaker 2>attack were members of other groups too. Specifically, they were

0:18:12.480 --> 0:18:16.600
<v Speaker 2>all members of the Africaner Resistance movement. The AWB led

0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:20.399
<v Speaker 2>by Eugene terre Blanche. The first to be arrested were

0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:25.600
<v Speaker 2>two South African citizens, Arthur Archer and Craig Barker, and

0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:30.159
<v Speaker 2>a German mercenary named Horst Clens. South Africans Darrell stopped

0:18:30.160 --> 0:18:35.280
<v Speaker 2>Forth and Leonard Winendhal were arrested soon after. By October

0:18:35.320 --> 0:18:37.480
<v Speaker 2>of nineteen eighty nine, two months after the attack, and

0:18:37.560 --> 0:18:42.080
<v Speaker 2>out Yo five men had been arrested. Charges against Craig

0:18:42.119 --> 0:18:44.480
<v Speaker 2>Barker were dropped early on, and the charges against Arthur

0:18:44.600 --> 0:18:48.439
<v Speaker 2>Archer were dropped after he agreed to cooperate, And so

0:18:48.480 --> 0:18:53.000
<v Speaker 2>in December of nineteen eighty nine, it's just three Nandhl

0:18:53.359 --> 0:18:57.000
<v Speaker 2>Cleans and stop Foth were officially charged with murder in

0:18:57.040 --> 0:19:01.480
<v Speaker 2>a Namibian court. The courthouse was a three hour drive

0:19:01.520 --> 0:19:04.800
<v Speaker 2>from the prison where the men were being held. After

0:19:04.840 --> 0:19:07.400
<v Speaker 2>the hearing, Leonard Venadal asked to use the bathroom before

0:19:07.400 --> 0:19:09.600
<v Speaker 2>they were loaded back into the transport van to return

0:19:09.640 --> 0:19:12.960
<v Speaker 2>to their cells. And this is one of those moments

0:19:13.000 --> 0:19:15.680
<v Speaker 2>where it's useful to bear in mind that the Truth

0:19:15.720 --> 0:19:19.879
<v Speaker 2>and Reconciliation Commission names Leonard Venandal as a known operative

0:19:20.119 --> 0:19:24.560
<v Speaker 2>of the Civil Cooperation Bureau, those government sponsored death squads

0:19:25.560 --> 0:19:28.680
<v Speaker 2>and he's named as an operative of the CCB, specifically

0:19:28.720 --> 0:19:33.240
<v Speaker 2>in connection with these events in Namibia. So with that

0:19:33.320 --> 0:19:36.800
<v Speaker 2>in mind, Leonard Venandal goes to the bathroom of the

0:19:36.840 --> 0:19:40.560
<v Speaker 2>courthouse and he somehow knows to take the top off

0:19:40.600 --> 0:19:44.719
<v Speaker 2>the tank of a particular toilet. Someone had left him

0:19:44.720 --> 0:19:49.000
<v Speaker 2>a gift in there, a pistol, and he takes the

0:19:49.000 --> 0:19:50.720
<v Speaker 2>gun out of the toilet and he tucks it away

0:19:50.720 --> 0:19:52.640
<v Speaker 2>and allows himself to be placed back in the van.

0:19:54.760 --> 0:19:56.800
<v Speaker 2>About three quarters the way through the drive back to

0:19:56.840 --> 0:20:00.600
<v Speaker 2>the jail, somewhere in the middle of nowhere, the men

0:20:00.640 --> 0:20:03.440
<v Speaker 2>insisted that they just couldn't hold it any longer. They

0:20:03.520 --> 0:20:06.639
<v Speaker 2>needed to stop to go to the bathroom, and the

0:20:06.680 --> 0:20:10.879
<v Speaker 2>two Namibian police officers agreed. They pulled over and they

0:20:10.920 --> 0:20:12.800
<v Speaker 2>let their three prisoners out to pee on the side

0:20:12.800 --> 0:20:17.840
<v Speaker 2>of the road, and then suddenly another vehicle appeared. It

0:20:17.920 --> 0:20:22.040
<v Speaker 2>stopped and two men got out, and Vinadel produced the

0:20:22.040 --> 0:20:24.239
<v Speaker 2>pistol from his hiding place, and the two officers were

0:20:24.280 --> 0:20:29.440
<v Speaker 2>overpowered by the three prisoners and their two accomplices. Constable

0:20:29.520 --> 0:20:31.879
<v Speaker 2>Ricardo van Wick was shot on the stomach and later died.

0:20:33.119 --> 0:20:35.720
<v Speaker 2>The surviving officer was forced at gunpoint into the back

0:20:35.720 --> 0:20:37.840
<v Speaker 2>of the van, which the prisoners drove half an hour

0:20:37.880 --> 0:20:41.600
<v Speaker 2>off the main road before abandoning it. And then they disappeared,

0:20:41.600 --> 0:20:58.879
<v Speaker 2>and the vehicle driven by their accomplices, and they really

0:20:58.880 --> 0:21:03.800
<v Speaker 2>did disappear. Darrel stopped Forth, Leonard Fiennandal, and Horse Glens

0:21:04.000 --> 0:21:07.560
<v Speaker 2>had murdered a UN security guard and an Amibian police officer.

0:21:08.840 --> 0:21:11.439
<v Speaker 2>They were supposed to have gone on trial in Namibia,

0:21:11.920 --> 0:21:17.040
<v Speaker 2>but they vanished for a little while anyway. Just a

0:21:17.040 --> 0:21:20.040
<v Speaker 2>few short months later, both Leonard Fiennindal and Darrel Stopforth

0:21:20.080 --> 0:21:23.760
<v Speaker 2>came out of hiding. They were home in South Africa,

0:21:24.720 --> 0:21:27.080
<v Speaker 2>and South Africa had no extradition treaty with the newly

0:21:27.119 --> 0:21:31.200
<v Speaker 2>independent nation of Namibia. There were warrants for their arrest there,

0:21:31.240 --> 0:21:35.800
<v Speaker 2>but there was nothing anyone could really do. Nadal said

0:21:35.840 --> 0:21:38.760
<v Speaker 2>in a public statement a few months after his escape,

0:21:38.840 --> 0:21:40.920
<v Speaker 2>I have now returned to my family and I'm going

0:21:40.920 --> 0:21:43.560
<v Speaker 2>to devote myself full time to the cause as the

0:21:43.560 --> 0:21:47.800
<v Speaker 2>revolution is here. A photo of Venandal taken around that

0:21:47.840 --> 0:21:51.080
<v Speaker 2>time shows him wearing his AWB uniform and holding his

0:21:51.119 --> 0:21:55.920
<v Speaker 2>newborn son. He'd named the boy Daryl, presumably to honor

0:21:56.040 --> 0:21:58.959
<v Speaker 2>Darrel stop Forth, the man he'd just committed two murders

0:21:59.000 --> 0:22:02.720
<v Speaker 2>with and there's an odd thing I keep seeing these

0:22:02.720 --> 0:22:06.600
<v Speaker 2>guys do as I'm researching this story. They have this

0:22:06.680 --> 0:22:09.520
<v Speaker 2>strange fondness for giving interviews when they're supposed to be

0:22:09.520 --> 0:22:13.679
<v Speaker 2>in hiding on the run from the law. When it

0:22:13.680 --> 0:22:16.440
<v Speaker 2>was announced in September of nineteen eighty nine, a month

0:22:16.480 --> 0:22:18.919
<v Speaker 2>after the attack and out YO that Leonard Venadal had

0:22:18.960 --> 0:22:22.399
<v Speaker 2>been arrested, a reporter in South Africa came forward with

0:22:22.440 --> 0:22:27.120
<v Speaker 2>a pretty wild story. While Venondal had been on the run,

0:22:27.240 --> 0:22:29.080
<v Speaker 2>he'd taken the time to sit down for a two

0:22:29.080 --> 0:22:33.600
<v Speaker 2>hour interview with a reporter, and in that interview he

0:22:33.720 --> 0:22:38.080
<v Speaker 2>spoke openly about his membership in the AWB. That fact

0:22:38.080 --> 0:22:41.879
<v Speaker 2>alone wasn't really a secret. He was Eugene Tablanche's personal bodyguard,

0:22:42.400 --> 0:22:44.320
<v Speaker 2>and he was the leader of the Johannesburg branch of

0:22:44.359 --> 0:22:47.439
<v Speaker 2>the group. But he also claimed there had been a

0:22:47.480 --> 0:22:52.840
<v Speaker 2>split within Aquala, the militant arm of AWB, with some

0:22:52.880 --> 0:22:56.639
<v Speaker 2>members openly declaring their willingness and intent to die for

0:22:56.680 --> 0:23:00.720
<v Speaker 2>the cause, forming a sort of Kamakazi unit that planned

0:23:00.720 --> 0:23:05.280
<v Speaker 2>to carry out high profile assassinations. He also showed the

0:23:05.280 --> 0:23:10.520
<v Speaker 2>reporter a small circular placard of sorts with a picture

0:23:10.600 --> 0:23:16.399
<v Speaker 2>of a wolf. The reporter Yu hung Kus just looked

0:23:16.400 --> 0:23:19.800
<v Speaker 2>at it with disbelief, and he said, there's no such

0:23:19.840 --> 0:23:23.800
<v Speaker 2>thing as the White Wolves, and vin ad all smiled

0:23:23.840 --> 0:23:31.840
<v Speaker 2>at him and replied, believe me, they exist. The White

0:23:31.840 --> 0:23:38.000
<v Speaker 2>Wolves probably didn't exist, not really, not then anyway, not

0:23:38.320 --> 0:23:42.160
<v Speaker 2>in any way that really means anything. I guess they

0:23:42.600 --> 0:23:45.240
<v Speaker 2>kind of did, in the sense that if someone were

0:23:45.280 --> 0:23:47.360
<v Speaker 2>to carry out a series of bombings and then call

0:23:47.440 --> 0:23:49.359
<v Speaker 2>the newspaper to say that the White Wolves did it,

0:23:50.280 --> 0:23:54.760
<v Speaker 2>you sort of retroactively created the idea of a group

0:23:55.359 --> 0:23:59.560
<v Speaker 2>that could be imagined to exist, because Venadel would later

0:23:59.600 --> 0:24:03.679
<v Speaker 2>be connect to an attempt to do just that. But

0:24:03.720 --> 0:24:08.159
<v Speaker 2>by most accounts, the White Wolves wasn't a terrorist organization

0:24:08.320 --> 0:24:13.920
<v Speaker 2>that actually existed. But in September of nineteen eighty nine,

0:24:14.720 --> 0:24:17.400
<v Speaker 2>as he's sitting there with this reporter from the Sunday Times,

0:24:18.520 --> 0:24:22.119
<v Speaker 2>everyone in South Africa had heard of the White Wolf,

0:24:23.240 --> 0:24:27.880
<v Speaker 2>at least in the singular. Earlier that year, a former

0:24:27.960 --> 0:24:31.600
<v Speaker 2>policeman who called himself the White Wolf had been sentenced

0:24:31.640 --> 0:24:36.239
<v Speaker 2>to death. He was a former policeman because he'd been

0:24:36.280 --> 0:24:39.359
<v Speaker 2>dismissed a year earlier. After opposing for a photo holding

0:24:39.359 --> 0:24:41.760
<v Speaker 2>the severed head of a black man who had died

0:24:41.800 --> 0:24:45.200
<v Speaker 2>in a gruesome car accident. He tried to submit the

0:24:45.200 --> 0:24:49.360
<v Speaker 2>photo for publication in a police magazine, but they declined

0:24:49.400 --> 0:24:52.880
<v Speaker 2>to publish it. He'd joined a to w B at

0:24:52.920 --> 0:24:57.920
<v Speaker 2>just sixteen, with his father's support and encouragement. He'd been

0:24:57.920 --> 0:25:01.120
<v Speaker 2>sentenced to die for something he did. November of nineteen

0:25:01.200 --> 0:25:05.280
<v Speaker 2>eighty eight, one afternoon, a twenty three year old named

0:25:05.280 --> 0:25:09.199
<v Speaker 2>Baron Stredam put on his custom belt buckle engraved with

0:25:09.240 --> 0:25:14.000
<v Speaker 2>the words white wolf and Afrikaans. He barked his car

0:25:14.040 --> 0:25:17.520
<v Speaker 2>near a busy city square in downtown Pretoria, and he

0:25:17.560 --> 0:25:22.600
<v Speaker 2>got out, and he started walking, and then he started shooting.

0:25:23.920 --> 0:25:27.520
<v Speaker 2>On the day of the massacre, he just walked for

0:25:27.640 --> 0:25:32.760
<v Speaker 2>several blocks, just shooting black people at random. He murdered

0:25:32.800 --> 0:25:38.400
<v Speaker 2>eight people and wounded sixteen others, and every survivor says

0:25:38.440 --> 0:25:46.280
<v Speaker 2>the same thing. He smiled the entire time. Bradley Stein

0:25:46.400 --> 0:25:48.760
<v Speaker 2>was just seventeen years old that day and he was

0:25:48.760 --> 0:25:51.840
<v Speaker 2>on his way home from rugby practice when he saw Stridum.

0:25:53.520 --> 0:25:56.359
<v Speaker 2>He didn't understand at first what he was looking at.

0:25:57.280 --> 0:25:59.760
<v Speaker 2>This man with a gun must be a police officer.

0:26:00.200 --> 0:26:03.439
<v Speaker 2>He must be trying to catch a bad guy. But

0:26:03.520 --> 0:26:05.399
<v Speaker 2>then he saw Stridem walk up to an old woman

0:26:05.440 --> 0:26:09.199
<v Speaker 2>carrying groceries, and without saying a word, Stritem shot her

0:26:09.200 --> 0:26:13.400
<v Speaker 2>in the head. At that moment, a black teenager called

0:26:13.440 --> 0:26:15.840
<v Speaker 2>out to stein beckoning him over to the bench he

0:26:15.880 --> 0:26:19.199
<v Speaker 2>was hiding behind, and the two teens hid behind the

0:26:19.200 --> 0:26:24.000
<v Speaker 2>bench together, but Stridum found them. He shot the black boy.

0:26:25.800 --> 0:26:29.720
<v Speaker 2>As Steyne, who's white, cradled this bleeding stranger in his lap.

0:26:29.800 --> 0:26:33.800
<v Speaker 2>He looked up at Stridam and asked him why.

0:26:36.040 --> 0:26:38.080
<v Speaker 3>Then I turned up to him and I said, who

0:26:38.119 --> 0:26:42.040
<v Speaker 3>com duniate that? Why are you doing this? And he said,

0:26:42.240 --> 0:26:46.040
<v Speaker 3>agduned it for it two cooms for we sight africananners,

0:26:46.359 --> 0:26:49.359
<v Speaker 3>which means I'm doing this for the future of white

0:26:49.359 --> 0:26:50.840
<v Speaker 3>South Africans.

0:26:54.080 --> 0:26:58.000
<v Speaker 2>Stridum never fired at a white person. The shooting only

0:26:58.000 --> 0:27:02.440
<v Speaker 2>stopped when a black taxi driver named Simon Mucondeley tapped

0:27:02.480 --> 0:27:06.080
<v Speaker 2>Stritum on the shoulder while he was reloading. He must

0:27:06.080 --> 0:27:08.879
<v Speaker 2>have caught the killer off guard because as Stridem turned round,

0:27:09.080 --> 0:27:11.520
<v Speaker 2>Mucondeley was able to grab the gun out of his hands.

0:27:13.320 --> 0:27:16.760
<v Speaker 2>As I was reading about Stridem's murders. It felt so

0:27:16.920 --> 0:27:21.639
<v Speaker 2>familiar to me. I've read accounts of a lot of

0:27:21.680 --> 0:27:25.720
<v Speaker 2>mass shootings. I've seen videos I wish I could forget.

0:27:26.600 --> 0:27:32.040
<v Speaker 2>I've wasted countless hours reading manifestos, and there are plenty

0:27:32.080 --> 0:27:35.399
<v Speaker 2>of similarities between white supremacist mass shootings. There are a

0:27:35.440 --> 0:27:37.800
<v Speaker 2>lot of common denominators when it comes to a young

0:27:37.840 --> 0:27:42.159
<v Speaker 2>white man who carries out a racist mass shooting. But

0:27:42.359 --> 0:27:50.639
<v Speaker 2>this felt so terribly, eerily familiar to me. It was inescapable.

0:27:52.160 --> 0:27:55.600
<v Speaker 2>It felt just like the Charleston church shooting. It felt

0:27:55.640 --> 0:27:59.720
<v Speaker 2>like Dylan Rufe. And back in twenty fifteen, several South

0:27:59.720 --> 0:28:05.639
<v Speaker 2>Africa journalists covering that story that American shooting referred to

0:28:05.680 --> 0:28:09.560
<v Speaker 2>Dylan Rufe as America's white Wolf. So I guess I'm

0:28:09.560 --> 0:28:13.960
<v Speaker 2>not alone in that feeling. We talked briefly last week

0:28:13.960 --> 0:28:17.680
<v Speaker 2>about the apartheid era South African flag patch in photos

0:28:17.720 --> 0:28:20.679
<v Speaker 2>of roof taken shortly before he murdered nine people at

0:28:20.720 --> 0:28:25.439
<v Speaker 2>the Emmanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in twenty fifteen, So

0:28:25.480 --> 0:28:29.679
<v Speaker 2>we know he had a fondness for apartheid. But I

0:28:29.760 --> 0:28:34.119
<v Speaker 2>wonder if he was familiar with the white wolf. So

0:28:34.160 --> 0:28:37.800
<v Speaker 2>in Venadel is sitting there with this reporter showing him

0:28:37.840 --> 0:28:41.280
<v Speaker 2>this little picture of a wolf. This is what he's

0:28:41.320 --> 0:28:44.480
<v Speaker 2>talking about. He's telling the reporter that he's a member

0:28:44.520 --> 0:28:48.120
<v Speaker 2>of this extremely militant, violent arm of the AWB, that

0:28:48.160 --> 0:28:51.360
<v Speaker 2>they're planning to get a race war going before Christmas,

0:28:51.920 --> 0:28:54.160
<v Speaker 2>and he really wants the paper to run a story

0:28:54.800 --> 0:28:58.520
<v Speaker 2>that will convince people that there are hundreds more Barren

0:28:58.600 --> 0:29:03.720
<v Speaker 2>Stritums out there lying in wait. And the reason the

0:29:03.760 --> 0:29:06.880
<v Speaker 2>reporter didn't believe him is because it had been discussed

0:29:06.880 --> 0:29:11.040
<v Speaker 2>extensively during Stritem's trial just a few months earlier. There

0:29:11.120 --> 0:29:14.320
<v Speaker 2>was no reason to believe any actual group called the

0:29:14.360 --> 0:29:18.920
<v Speaker 2>White Wolves existed. He was a member of AWB, that

0:29:19.160 --> 0:29:22.960
<v Speaker 2>was fairly certain, but when it came to the White Wolves,

0:29:23.000 --> 0:29:27.200
<v Speaker 2>it appeared to just be a pack of one. Fienandal

0:29:27.360 --> 0:29:31.120
<v Speaker 2>was maybe just planting seeds of propaganda. He was trying

0:29:31.160 --> 0:29:34.920
<v Speaker 2>to capitalize on this intense fear and trauma surrounding Stritem's

0:29:35.000 --> 0:29:39.000
<v Speaker 2>murders by convincing people it could happen again at any time.

0:29:42.280 --> 0:29:45.080
<v Speaker 2>But Leonard Fiennindal had been telling the truth about at

0:29:45.160 --> 0:29:47.800
<v Speaker 2>least one thing when he spoke to that reporter before

0:29:47.800 --> 0:29:52.120
<v Speaker 2>his arrest, there had been some splintering within the African

0:29:52.240 --> 0:29:56.880
<v Speaker 2>or Resistance movement, members of AWB had started forming increasingly

0:29:56.960 --> 0:30:00.960
<v Speaker 2>violent breakaway groups, groups like the Orde van de Dude,

0:30:01.320 --> 0:30:05.040
<v Speaker 2>which translates to the Order of Death, and the Order

0:30:05.080 --> 0:30:09.680
<v Speaker 2>Borofolk the Order of the Boer People. And that name

0:30:09.760 --> 0:30:14.000
<v Speaker 2>might sound familiar. A violent fascist group calling itself the

0:30:14.120 --> 0:30:18.960
<v Speaker 2>Order we heard that one before its founder would later

0:30:19.000 --> 0:30:22.320
<v Speaker 2>say that he'd never actually heard of Robert J. Matthews,

0:30:22.680 --> 0:30:24.840
<v Speaker 2>the American neo Nazi who founded a group called The

0:30:24.960 --> 0:30:28.600
<v Speaker 2>Order in nineteen eighty three. It seems both men arrived

0:30:28.600 --> 0:30:31.760
<v Speaker 2>at the name independently, but for the exact same reason.

0:30:32.880 --> 0:30:35.440
<v Speaker 2>It was the name of the fictional white supremacist organization

0:30:35.720 --> 0:30:40.520
<v Speaker 2>in William Luther Pierce's novel The Turner Diaries. And you

0:30:40.600 --> 0:30:42.840
<v Speaker 2>might remember the name of the man who founded the

0:30:42.840 --> 0:30:46.920
<v Speaker 2>South African version of the Order. Remember last week we

0:30:46.960 --> 0:30:50.120
<v Speaker 2>were talking about the trial of Massimo Bolo and Fabio Miriello,

0:30:50.840 --> 0:30:53.640
<v Speaker 2>the Italian fascist convicted of the vit Commando bombings in

0:30:53.720 --> 0:30:56.880
<v Speaker 2>nineteen eighty. As the two men were led into the

0:30:56.880 --> 0:30:59.800
<v Speaker 2>court room on the first day of their trial, one

0:30:59.840 --> 0:31:03.960
<v Speaker 2>man and the gallery stood up and applauded for the bombers,

0:31:04.920 --> 0:31:09.120
<v Speaker 2>and that man was Pritorious City councilor Pete Rudolph, And

0:31:09.160 --> 0:31:11.160
<v Speaker 2>so by this point in our timeline, Rudolph is a

0:31:11.200 --> 0:31:15.080
<v Speaker 2>high ranking member of the africaner resistance movement the AWB,

0:31:16.680 --> 0:31:20.120
<v Speaker 2>and Pete Rudolph maintains to this day that he founded

0:31:20.120 --> 0:31:23.680
<v Speaker 2>the Order in nineteen eighty nine with the knowledge and

0:31:23.920 --> 0:31:29.080
<v Speaker 2>blessing of AWB's leader, Eugene taire Blanche, specifically so that

0:31:29.160 --> 0:31:34.280
<v Speaker 2>AWB members could engage in more violent resistance without risking

0:31:34.360 --> 0:31:40.440
<v Speaker 2>AWB itself being sanctioned or banned. And if that's true,

0:31:40.920 --> 0:31:43.560
<v Speaker 2>it's actually quite similar in that respect to the group

0:31:43.600 --> 0:31:47.120
<v Speaker 2>of the same name in the United States. When Robert

0:31:47.160 --> 0:31:49.959
<v Speaker 2>Matthews founded the Order, he did so with the knowledge

0:31:49.960 --> 0:31:53.920
<v Speaker 2>and blessing of William Luther Pierce, announcing the formation of

0:31:53.920 --> 0:31:55.640
<v Speaker 2>the group in a speech at the annual meeting of

0:31:55.680 --> 0:32:00.960
<v Speaker 2>Pierce's National Alliance. And National Alliance benefited Ida theologically and

0:32:01.080 --> 0:32:05.360
<v Speaker 2>financially from the Order's crimes, but they had the plausible

0:32:05.400 --> 0:32:10.080
<v Speaker 2>deniability of having no formal affiliation with the group. Just

0:32:10.160 --> 0:32:13.920
<v Speaker 2>like Pierce a National Alliance, Terre Blanche and the AWB

0:32:14.200 --> 0:32:17.560
<v Speaker 2>could sit back and enjoy the political benefit of their

0:32:17.720 --> 0:32:21.320
<v Speaker 2>orders act of terror without the risk of appearing to

0:32:21.360 --> 0:32:27.560
<v Speaker 2>have authorized them. The Order Boro Folk was definitely founded

0:32:27.640 --> 0:32:32.040
<v Speaker 2>and led by Pete Rudolph, but press clippings over the

0:32:32.120 --> 0:32:36.480
<v Speaker 2>years occasionally name other men as the group's leader. At

0:32:36.480 --> 0:32:40.280
<v Speaker 2>one point, Nick Stridem, the father of mass murderer Baronstretem,

0:32:40.760 --> 0:32:44.000
<v Speaker 2>is quoted as the head of the Order. In nineteen

0:32:44.040 --> 0:32:47.200
<v Speaker 2>ninety four, a South African TV news program aired an

0:32:47.280 --> 0:32:49.280
<v Speaker 2>interview with a man claiming to be the leader of

0:32:49.320 --> 0:32:53.560
<v Speaker 2>the Order. I was perhaps as surprised as Pete Rudolph

0:32:53.680 --> 0:32:56.720
<v Speaker 2>was to see Leonard Wienendahl staring back at me from

0:32:56.720 --> 0:33:01.080
<v Speaker 2>the screen. Rudolph would later tell them Truth and Reconciliation

0:33:01.120 --> 0:33:05.640
<v Speaker 2>Commission that Venandal had appointed himself as chief of staff

0:33:05.640 --> 0:33:09.040
<v Speaker 2>of the Order without his permission, and that such a

0:33:09.040 --> 0:33:13.480
<v Speaker 2>position didn't even exist. And he called Venandal quote a

0:33:13.480 --> 0:33:20.080
<v Speaker 2>man fond of publicity with strong national socialist inclinations. And

0:33:20.120 --> 0:33:22.360
<v Speaker 2>he scoffed at the very idea that he would have

0:33:22.400 --> 0:33:27.840
<v Speaker 2>let Venondal lead anything, disparagingly referring to Venondal's habit of

0:33:28.160 --> 0:33:32.800
<v Speaker 2>appearing in public in a khaki uniform, saying I despise

0:33:33.200 --> 0:33:36.800
<v Speaker 2>a khaki uniform. Let me tell you, because khaki is

0:33:36.840 --> 0:33:40.840
<v Speaker 2>the color of the British. But I guess the fashion

0:33:40.960 --> 0:33:44.320
<v Speaker 2>police unit of the Nazi terror squad is really neither

0:33:44.360 --> 0:33:47.640
<v Speaker 2>here nor there. No one denies Vnondal was a member

0:33:47.840 --> 0:33:51.520
<v Speaker 2>of the Order. In fact, when Venondal, Cleans and stop

0:33:51.560 --> 0:33:54.840
<v Speaker 2>Forth had escaped from custody in Namibia, it had been

0:33:54.880 --> 0:33:56.720
<v Speaker 2>the Order who picked them up on the side of

0:33:56.720 --> 0:34:01.440
<v Speaker 2>the road there next to the still bleeding policeman. The

0:34:01.480 --> 0:34:05.800
<v Speaker 2>man driving their getaway car was Rudolph's chief deputy, Hank Bradenhan.

0:34:07.960 --> 0:34:10.920
<v Speaker 2>Rudolph claims the Order was formally established in October of

0:34:10.960 --> 0:34:14.319
<v Speaker 2>nineteen eighty nine, but they didn't announce their presence to

0:34:14.360 --> 0:34:17.800
<v Speaker 2>the world until February of nineteen ninety, when a small

0:34:17.880 --> 0:34:22.440
<v Speaker 2>group of quote suspicious looking white men vandalized the British

0:34:22.440 --> 0:34:26.480
<v Speaker 2>embassy in Pretoria. Witnesses saw them walk up to the

0:34:26.480 --> 0:34:31.440
<v Speaker 2>embassy gates and spray paint in Afrikaans. The struggle begins

0:34:32.840 --> 0:34:38.840
<v Speaker 2>and they signed the statement order. Borofolk police looked at

0:34:38.840 --> 0:34:41.520
<v Speaker 2>the graffiti and said they'd never heard of the group.

0:34:43.320 --> 0:34:46.000
<v Speaker 2>One member spoke anonymously with the press and said they

0:34:46.000 --> 0:35:04.440
<v Speaker 2>were allied with the White Wolves. In April of nineteen ninety,

0:35:05.160 --> 0:35:09.040
<v Speaker 2>the Order Boro folk took its first big step. Pete

0:35:09.080 --> 0:35:11.600
<v Speaker 2>Rudolph organized and led a raid on a South African

0:35:11.640 --> 0:35:15.160
<v Speaker 2>Air Force base. Carried out in collaboration with three young

0:35:15.200 --> 0:35:19.000
<v Speaker 2>A Tobb sympathizers within the Air Force. Order members, including

0:35:19.080 --> 0:35:22.440
<v Speaker 2>Leonard Wienendahl, stole a busload of guns and ammunition from

0:35:22.440 --> 0:35:26.839
<v Speaker 2>the South African Defense Force. Rudolph called the Pretoria News

0:35:26.880 --> 0:35:28.760
<v Speaker 2>while on the run to take credit for the heist,

0:35:29.600 --> 0:35:33.000
<v Speaker 2>saying it was time for war. Quote. I have now

0:35:33.040 --> 0:35:35.840
<v Speaker 2>crossed the rubicon. The boar now have a chance to

0:35:35.960 --> 0:35:38.840
<v Speaker 2>arm themselves. We are now going for the a n

0:35:38.960 --> 0:35:43.960
<v Speaker 2>c's throat. And keep those guns in the back of

0:35:44.000 --> 0:35:48.279
<v Speaker 2>your mind too, I'll remind you, but one of those

0:35:48.280 --> 0:35:54.319
<v Speaker 2>guns shows back up. In June, Rudolph recorded a half

0:35:54.360 --> 0:35:58.560
<v Speaker 2>hour long video declaring war against the government, and he

0:35:58.640 --> 0:36:01.279
<v Speaker 2>mailed copies to several New Use outlets as well as

0:36:01.280 --> 0:36:05.200
<v Speaker 2>other right wing groups. I could only find a short

0:36:05.239 --> 0:36:08.080
<v Speaker 2>clip of it. I don't know why it looked so

0:36:08.200 --> 0:36:10.279
<v Speaker 2>hard for the full video. It wouldn't have done me

0:36:10.320 --> 0:36:14.200
<v Speaker 2>any good. It's all in Afrikaans, but still frames from

0:36:14.200 --> 0:36:17.319
<v Speaker 2>the video show Rudolph sitting at a desk flanked by

0:36:17.400 --> 0:36:21.920
<v Speaker 2>masked men carrying rifles they'd stolen from the military, and

0:36:21.960 --> 0:36:26.640
<v Speaker 2>the message was part press release, part warning, part call

0:36:26.719 --> 0:36:30.480
<v Speaker 2>to action. He's speaking to a variety of audiences here

0:36:30.600 --> 0:36:34.080
<v Speaker 2>and for his fellow African or nationalists. His message was

0:36:34.120 --> 0:36:38.719
<v Speaker 2>pretty simple. It's not time to talk anymore and it

0:36:38.800 --> 0:36:41.799
<v Speaker 2>is quote better to die in glory than to live

0:36:42.640 --> 0:36:49.000
<v Speaker 2>in disgrace. Within days of this video's release, the bombs

0:36:49.000 --> 0:36:53.080
<v Speaker 2>started going off. In late June and early July of

0:36:53.200 --> 0:36:59.400
<v Speaker 2>nineteen ninety, bombs went off every night. A bomb went

0:36:59.400 --> 0:37:02.760
<v Speaker 2>off on a bust terminal in Johannesburg injuring nearly thirty people.

0:37:03.680 --> 0:37:06.200
<v Speaker 2>Bombs went off at both the home and business belonging

0:37:06.200 --> 0:37:09.520
<v Speaker 2>to Clive Gilbert, a Johannesburg City councilor who was both

0:37:09.600 --> 0:37:13.439
<v Speaker 2>Jewish and a member of the Democratic Party. That same week,

0:37:13.480 --> 0:37:16.600
<v Speaker 2>a synagogue in Johannesburg was bombed and defaced with swastika's

0:37:16.600 --> 0:37:20.479
<v Speaker 2>and pro apartheid slogans. The office of the National Union

0:37:20.480 --> 0:37:24.520
<v Speaker 2>of Mine Workers, a radical black labour organization, was destroyed

0:37:24.520 --> 0:37:27.799
<v Speaker 2>by a bomb that went off overnight. A bomb blew

0:37:27.800 --> 0:37:30.160
<v Speaker 2>out the windows of the offices of the anti apartheid

0:37:30.160 --> 0:37:35.680
<v Speaker 2>weekly newspaper Freivigblad, and the homes and offices of several

0:37:35.719 --> 0:37:39.200
<v Speaker 2>members of the ruling National Party were targeted as well,

0:37:39.880 --> 0:37:43.319
<v Speaker 2>accompanied by warnings that President de Clerk must stop all

0:37:43.360 --> 0:37:48.239
<v Speaker 2>efforts to adopt moderate reforms. And then the phone calls came.

0:37:49.600 --> 0:37:52.640
<v Speaker 2>Two phone calls to the offices of a pro government newspaper.

0:37:54.080 --> 0:37:59.120
<v Speaker 2>The first caller spoke English, not Afrikaans. A day later,

0:37:59.160 --> 0:38:02.000
<v Speaker 2>a second call came to the same paper, and this

0:38:02.120 --> 0:38:04.719
<v Speaker 2>caller spoke Afrikaans, but he used the code word the

0:38:04.760 --> 0:38:07.719
<v Speaker 2>reporter had given the previous caller to ensure he was

0:38:07.760 --> 0:38:12.360
<v Speaker 2>speaking with the same group. Both callers told the newspaper

0:38:12.480 --> 0:38:16.759
<v Speaker 2>that the White Wolves were responsible for the bombings and

0:38:16.800 --> 0:38:21.000
<v Speaker 2>that the bombings would continue if their demands weren't meant.

0:38:21.360 --> 0:38:25.759
<v Speaker 2>Their primary demand was pretty straightforward. They wanted President de

0:38:25.840 --> 0:38:29.880
<v Speaker 2>Clerk to call an election. His moves towards reform and

0:38:29.960 --> 0:38:33.920
<v Speaker 2>concessions and negotiations with the ANC, and his recent release

0:38:33.960 --> 0:38:38.440
<v Speaker 2>of Nelson Mandela. These things were unacceptable, and they wanted

0:38:38.440 --> 0:38:42.440
<v Speaker 2>the opportunity to elect a better white president. But the

0:38:42.480 --> 0:38:47.800
<v Speaker 2>group had two other strangely specific requests. They wanted the

0:38:47.840 --> 0:38:53.520
<v Speaker 2>White Wolf himself, Baron Stridam, released from prison, and they

0:38:53.560 --> 0:38:55.920
<v Speaker 2>wanted the police to call off the man hunt for

0:38:56.000 --> 0:38:59.080
<v Speaker 2>Pete Rudolph, who was at this time still on the

0:38:59.160 --> 0:39:02.560
<v Speaker 2>run after claiming responsibility for stealing all those guns from

0:39:02.600 --> 0:39:07.480
<v Speaker 2>the military and then sending the government a videotaped declaration

0:39:07.560 --> 0:39:14.520
<v Speaker 2>of war. But like I said, the White Wolves almost

0:39:14.520 --> 0:39:19.440
<v Speaker 2>certainly didn't exist, not in nineteen ninety, not as an

0:39:19.480 --> 0:39:24.640
<v Speaker 2>actual organized group, whatever that means for a group that

0:39:24.719 --> 0:39:27.880
<v Speaker 2>didn't exist, though they were very busy in nineteen ninety.

0:39:29.360 --> 0:39:32.440
<v Speaker 2>In February, shortly after Nelson Mandela was released from prison,

0:39:33.200 --> 0:39:37.239
<v Speaker 2>letters threatening to assassinate him were received by newspapers and

0:39:37.360 --> 0:39:42.600
<v Speaker 2>those letters were signed the White Wolves. In May, when

0:39:42.600 --> 0:39:46.520
<v Speaker 2>President Declark announced another round of apartheid reforms, including the

0:39:46.560 --> 0:39:50.880
<v Speaker 2>repeal of the law that segregated libraries, the White Wolves

0:39:50.880 --> 0:39:53.560
<v Speaker 2>put out a press release warning the president to watch

0:39:53.600 --> 0:39:58.760
<v Speaker 2>his back. In May of nineteen ninety, three black activists

0:39:58.800 --> 0:40:01.080
<v Speaker 2>with the African National Congress were run off the road

0:40:01.400 --> 0:40:05.480
<v Speaker 2>by two white men. Prince Makina and Simon Koba were murdered,

0:40:06.200 --> 0:40:10.960
<v Speaker 2>but Xavier Likuote survived to testify. He says, before one

0:40:11.000 --> 0:40:14.040
<v Speaker 2>of the white men started shooting at them. He'd ask

0:40:14.160 --> 0:40:18.160
<v Speaker 2>if they'd heard of the White Wolves, Lekuote said, he

0:40:18.200 --> 0:40:21.840
<v Speaker 2>replied that he had, and just before opening fire, the

0:40:21.880 --> 0:40:24.040
<v Speaker 2>man looked down at them and said, I'm going to

0:40:24.120 --> 0:40:29.439
<v Speaker 2>show you just who the White Wolves are. And now

0:40:29.480 --> 0:40:32.840
<v Speaker 2>in July, the White Wolves are claiming responsibility for most,

0:40:33.239 --> 0:40:35.399
<v Speaker 2>though not all, of the bombs that had been going

0:40:35.400 --> 0:40:39.160
<v Speaker 2>off every night for a week. It's possible that some

0:40:39.239 --> 0:40:42.239
<v Speaker 2>of the other incidents involving people claiming to be the

0:40:42.280 --> 0:40:45.719
<v Speaker 2>White Wolves were just people doing what Leonard Binendal had

0:40:45.719 --> 0:40:49.680
<v Speaker 2>done with that reporter. They were pretending they were acting

0:40:49.719 --> 0:40:52.480
<v Speaker 2>on their own or in connection with some other group.

0:40:53.200 --> 0:40:55.839
<v Speaker 2>But they liked the way it sounded to say they

0:40:55.840 --> 0:40:59.040
<v Speaker 2>were the White Wolves. They understood the kind of fear

0:40:59.120 --> 0:41:02.440
<v Speaker 2>it would inspire and the kind of plausible deniability it

0:41:02.440 --> 0:41:06.080
<v Speaker 2>would give their actual group affiliation for whatever they'd done.

0:41:07.400 --> 0:41:10.840
<v Speaker 2>And more importantly, they wanted to honor the White Wolf

0:41:11.520 --> 0:41:15.520
<v Speaker 2>Baron Stredam. I see a lot of parallels here between

0:41:15.560 --> 0:41:19.440
<v Speaker 2>the way Stritam's murders so quickly achieved this almost religious

0:41:19.440 --> 0:41:24.680
<v Speaker 2>significance and the way modern terogram culture canonized his mass shooters.

0:41:25.640 --> 0:41:28.560
<v Speaker 2>I didn't realize they'd been doing that for so many decades.

0:41:30.600 --> 0:41:33.160
<v Speaker 2>I don't know that it was ever conclusively proven who

0:41:33.200 --> 0:41:35.880
<v Speaker 2>was actually behind every instance of someone claiming to be

0:41:35.920 --> 0:41:38.839
<v Speaker 2>the White Wolves, but in at least one of those

0:41:38.880 --> 0:41:43.960
<v Speaker 2>cases we knew exactly who it was. The men who

0:41:44.040 --> 0:41:46.600
<v Speaker 2>murdered Prince Makina and Simon Koba in May of nineteen

0:41:46.680 --> 0:41:52.520
<v Speaker 2>ninety was Peter Grinevald, son of General Teeny Gunivald, South

0:41:52.560 --> 0:41:57.400
<v Speaker 2>Africa's head of military intelligence. Peter Garnivald fled the country

0:41:57.480 --> 0:41:59.960
<v Speaker 2>after the murders, and he spent years hiding in Portugal.

0:42:01.280 --> 0:42:03.640
<v Speaker 2>When he was finally brought to justice, he testified that

0:42:03.680 --> 0:42:05.960
<v Speaker 2>at the time of the murders, he had been an

0:42:05.960 --> 0:42:10.920
<v Speaker 2>employee of the Civil Cooperation Bureau, just like Leonard Vinendal.

0:42:13.239 --> 0:42:17.120
<v Speaker 2>I'm not sure with conclusion to traw here, but the

0:42:17.160 --> 0:42:20.640
<v Speaker 2>only two people I can say with conclusive proof were

0:42:20.680 --> 0:42:25.920
<v Speaker 2>telling people that the White Wolves were real. Both turned

0:42:25.960 --> 0:42:31.319
<v Speaker 2>out to be members of state sponsored death squads. But

0:42:31.360 --> 0:42:35.240
<v Speaker 2>when it comes to those bombings in July, the police

0:42:35.680 --> 0:42:38.880
<v Speaker 2>knew it wasn't the White Wolves because they knew it

0:42:38.960 --> 0:42:43.239
<v Speaker 2>was members of the AWB, And we know more specifically

0:42:43.360 --> 0:42:45.920
<v Speaker 2>that it was members of the closely aligned splinter group,

0:42:46.320 --> 0:42:50.320
<v Speaker 2>the Order Borofolk. There are a lot of reasons why

0:42:50.360 --> 0:42:52.840
<v Speaker 2>we know that to be true, but just in case,

0:42:53.560 --> 0:42:58.200
<v Speaker 2>here's Pete Rudolph himself saying it in an interview. Last year.

0:43:01.560 --> 0:43:10.480
<v Speaker 1>We blew up National Party offices, we attacked some of

0:43:10.520 --> 0:43:15.680
<v Speaker 1>the trade unions and it was becoming an open war.

0:43:16.880 --> 0:43:20.640
<v Speaker 4>And this was under the flag of the Order Bouervont.

0:43:20.640 --> 0:43:24.520
<v Speaker 5>Under the older Budafowk, which were started on the tenth

0:43:24.560 --> 0:43:29.719
<v Speaker 5>of October eighteen eighty nine in Connivence and with the

0:43:29.760 --> 0:43:31.959
<v Speaker 5>assistance of the AWB.

0:43:36.280 --> 0:43:38.840
<v Speaker 2>All three of the men who bombed those un offices

0:43:38.840 --> 0:43:42.560
<v Speaker 2>in Namibia in nineteen eighty nine had reappeared in South

0:43:42.600 --> 0:43:47.120
<v Speaker 2>Africa by mid nineteen ninety, and all three were actively

0:43:47.160 --> 0:43:51.239
<v Speaker 2>involved in the Order's bombing campaign that summer. And when

0:43:51.239 --> 0:43:54.160
<v Speaker 2>the police started making arrests in July of nineteen ninety,

0:43:54.920 --> 0:43:59.000
<v Speaker 2>Horst Cleans, Darryl Stopped Fourth and Leonard Fienendal were three

0:43:59.040 --> 0:44:02.120
<v Speaker 2>of the ten men pained and connection with the bombings.

0:44:03.360 --> 0:44:07.279
<v Speaker 2>All ten of those men had ties to AWB. Several

0:44:07.320 --> 0:44:09.560
<v Speaker 2>would later testify that they'd also been members of the

0:44:09.640 --> 0:44:12.720
<v Speaker 2>Order of Death, a group that required members to commit

0:44:12.760 --> 0:44:18.319
<v Speaker 2>a random, unprovoked murder as an act of initiation. Now,

0:44:18.360 --> 0:44:23.160
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna be honest with you, I don't know what

0:44:23.280 --> 0:44:27.160
<v Speaker 2>happened next. I tried so hard to sort this out.

0:44:27.480 --> 0:44:31.239
<v Speaker 2>I love a day by day timeline, but I think

0:44:31.280 --> 0:44:34.839
<v Speaker 2>there are a lot of factors complicating things here. I mean,

0:44:34.840 --> 0:44:37.080
<v Speaker 2>first of all, it was thirty five years ago. Not

0:44:37.200 --> 0:44:40.080
<v Speaker 2>every piece of news has been archived and digitized, and

0:44:40.120 --> 0:44:43.400
<v Speaker 2>there's probably reporting out there that I just can't access.

0:44:44.560 --> 0:44:46.319
<v Speaker 2>And there are still the issues I talked about last

0:44:46.320 --> 0:44:48.719
<v Speaker 2>week when it comes to locating source material in a

0:44:48.760 --> 0:44:52.920
<v Speaker 2>foreign language with naming conventions and cultural contexts that I

0:44:53.040 --> 0:44:58.840
<v Speaker 2>just don't have. I've noticed a surprisingly casual attitude towards

0:44:59.239 --> 0:45:02.760
<v Speaker 2>spelling and nick names. I mean, it was incredibly common

0:45:02.760 --> 0:45:06.120
<v Speaker 2>across all of my sources for this story for someone's

0:45:06.200 --> 0:45:09.760
<v Speaker 2>name to be spelled a handful of different ways, pretty interchangeably,

0:45:10.440 --> 0:45:13.719
<v Speaker 2>sometimes even within the same article. And it seems like

0:45:13.760 --> 0:45:17.160
<v Speaker 2>it might be normal in Afrikaans to refer to a

0:45:17.160 --> 0:45:21.279
<v Speaker 2>particular individual using their full name or just their first

0:45:21.320 --> 0:45:24.600
<v Speaker 2>and middle initial with their last name or some kind

0:45:24.600 --> 0:45:30.840
<v Speaker 2>of nickname, even in very formal writing, again totally interchangeably.

0:45:30.920 --> 0:45:33.840
<v Speaker 2>It took me a week to realize that KOs is

0:45:33.840 --> 0:45:37.320
<v Speaker 2>a nickname for Jacobis, and one guy might be written

0:45:37.320 --> 0:45:40.759
<v Speaker 2>about both ways, from sentence to sentence. I don't know,

0:45:40.840 --> 0:45:43.799
<v Speaker 2>maybe this is cultural. I have no idea, but it

0:45:43.920 --> 0:45:49.600
<v Speaker 2>really complicates the process of looking for information. I've also

0:45:49.680 --> 0:45:54.200
<v Speaker 2>noticed dates are often wrong. I mean a lot, like

0:45:54.400 --> 0:45:59.680
<v Speaker 2>markedly provably wrong, just not consistent from source to source,

0:45:59.719 --> 0:46:05.200
<v Speaker 2>sometimes just offering information that isn't possible. I mentioned last

0:46:05.200 --> 0:46:06.799
<v Speaker 2>week that some of the dates in the Truth and

0:46:06.840 --> 0:46:11.600
<v Speaker 2>Reconciliation Report are definitely not correct. Things like the year

0:46:11.640 --> 0:46:14.759
<v Speaker 2>the Wit commando trials took place are pretty easy to

0:46:14.760 --> 0:46:19.680
<v Speaker 2>corroborate with newspaper archives, and it happens over and over again.

0:46:20.000 --> 0:46:22.880
<v Speaker 2>The bombing of the Frei vik Blot office is widely

0:46:22.960 --> 0:46:27.200
<v Speaker 2>reported in later sources to have occurred in nineteen ninety one.

0:46:27.320 --> 0:46:30.440
<v Speaker 2>The paper's own editor, Max Duprees, even puts the date

0:46:30.480 --> 0:46:36.000
<v Speaker 2>as nineteen ninety one in his memoirs, but that's not true.

0:46:36.040 --> 0:46:38.320
<v Speaker 2>He spoke to a reporter from the London Times about

0:46:38.320 --> 0:46:42.160
<v Speaker 2>the bombing the day after it happened in July of

0:46:42.280 --> 0:46:46.560
<v Speaker 2>nineteen ninety and Duprees writes in his book that Leonard

0:46:46.560 --> 0:46:51.080
<v Speaker 2>Wienendhal had confessed to having planted that bomb, which again

0:46:51.760 --> 0:46:54.240
<v Speaker 2>could not have happened in nineteen ninety one because Leonard

0:46:54.280 --> 0:46:58.000
<v Speaker 2>Venendal was in prison in nineteen ninety one, and the

0:46:58.040 --> 0:47:02.440
<v Speaker 2>confession in question is actually very well documented because Venondal

0:47:02.480 --> 0:47:05.640
<v Speaker 2>would later testify before the Truth and Reconciliation Commission that

0:47:06.239 --> 0:47:09.719
<v Speaker 2>he'd only confess to that bombing because police interrogators had

0:47:09.880 --> 0:47:16.920
<v Speaker 2>electrocuted his testicles in July of nineteen ninety So sorting

0:47:16.920 --> 0:47:19.120
<v Speaker 2>out a day by day timeline, which is again my

0:47:19.239 --> 0:47:24.520
<v Speaker 2>preferred strategy, really just wasn't possible here. There is no

0:47:24.680 --> 0:47:29.400
<v Speaker 2>consistently reliable source when it comes to when a particular

0:47:29.440 --> 0:47:34.200
<v Speaker 2>event actually happened. And I'm not gidding about that the

0:47:34.440 --> 0:47:38.080
<v Speaker 2>bit about Venendal claiming to have been tortured. He applied

0:47:38.080 --> 0:47:41.400
<v Speaker 2>to testify before the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, not as

0:47:41.440 --> 0:47:45.960
<v Speaker 2>a perpetrator, but as a victim. He offered testimony about

0:47:46.000 --> 0:47:55.120
<v Speaker 2>abuse he'd suffered after his arrest in July of nineteen ninety.

0:47:52.080 --> 0:47:59.160
<v Speaker 6>I then experienced being shocked. Then the current would come

0:47:59.200 --> 0:48:03.680
<v Speaker 6>through my leg, knew my arm, but stand through my gentiles.

0:48:04.120 --> 0:48:07.759
<v Speaker 6>Sometimes they would come all free together while this was going,

0:48:07.760 --> 0:48:10.200
<v Speaker 6>he shouted at me. Why don't I call my God

0:48:10.840 --> 0:48:12.200
<v Speaker 6>to release me from the chain.

0:48:16.280 --> 0:48:18.399
<v Speaker 2>That clip comes from one of the weekly hour long

0:48:18.440 --> 0:48:21.920
<v Speaker 2>broadcasts that aired every Sunday from nineteen ninety six through

0:48:22.000 --> 0:48:25.799
<v Speaker 2>nineteen ninety eight. Every week South Africans could tune in

0:48:25.840 --> 0:48:30.440
<v Speaker 2>for the Truth and Reconciliation Special Report, a compilation of

0:48:30.480 --> 0:48:35.200
<v Speaker 2>clips from the hearings that was presented by Max Dupries,

0:48:35.960 --> 0:48:38.880
<v Speaker 2>the newspaper editor whose office Mean and All admitted to bombing,

0:48:40.239 --> 0:48:43.200
<v Speaker 2>and Duprez ends that segment of the show with his

0:48:43.280 --> 0:48:47.719
<v Speaker 2>own commentary.

0:48:47.040 --> 0:48:50.719
<v Speaker 7>I'm looking forward to mister Finnandahl's amnesty education hearing, and

0:48:50.840 --> 0:48:54.080
<v Speaker 7>perhaps our Departments of Justice and Foreign Affairs owe the

0:48:54.080 --> 0:48:56.960
<v Speaker 7>public and explanation why he has not been sent back

0:48:56.960 --> 0:48:58.160
<v Speaker 7>to Namobia to stand trial.

0:49:01.719 --> 0:49:05.600
<v Speaker 2>But back to the question of the missing facts, Perhaps

0:49:05.600 --> 0:49:08.880
<v Speaker 2>the biggest factor here is that some of this information

0:49:09.160 --> 0:49:13.520
<v Speaker 2>just isn't there to find. And I don't mean it's

0:49:13.560 --> 0:49:17.520
<v Speaker 2>missing from the archives. I mean it doesn't exist. These

0:49:17.520 --> 0:49:21.839
<v Speaker 2>final years of the apartheid regime were chaotic. Someone might

0:49:21.840 --> 0:49:25.279
<v Speaker 2>get arrested for terrorism and then there just isn't ever

0:49:25.320 --> 0:49:28.400
<v Speaker 2>any follow up. I may be searching for answers that

0:49:28.400 --> 0:49:32.239
<v Speaker 2>aren't there, because sometimes cops would round up a bunch

0:49:32.280 --> 0:49:34.640
<v Speaker 2>of guys and put a story in the newspaper, and

0:49:34.680 --> 0:49:38.800
<v Speaker 2>then I don't know, they just aren't in jail anymore,

0:49:38.800 --> 0:49:42.680
<v Speaker 2>and there's never any more to the story. Sometimes people

0:49:42.760 --> 0:49:46.239
<v Speaker 2>escaped two members of the Order Bora Folk definitely did.

0:49:47.600 --> 0:49:52.200
<v Speaker 2>And sometimes people were quietly released because they secretly worked

0:49:52.200 --> 0:49:57.120
<v Speaker 2>for the government. And during this time period especially, the

0:49:57.200 --> 0:50:01.600
<v Speaker 2>government had a strategy of politically targeted am As part

0:50:01.640 --> 0:50:06.839
<v Speaker 2>of this effort to cool tensions and advanced negotiations, there

0:50:06.880 --> 0:50:10.879
<v Speaker 2>were these occasional releases of political prisoners. They just pick

0:50:10.920 --> 0:50:13.160
<v Speaker 2>a few guys on both sides of the conflict and

0:50:13.239 --> 0:50:18.120
<v Speaker 2>let them go. And unlike the later, more organized and

0:50:18.520 --> 0:50:23.719
<v Speaker 2>thoughtful process of granting amnesty through the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, this,

0:50:24.560 --> 0:50:26.799
<v Speaker 2>at least to me, I could be wrong here, but

0:50:26.920 --> 0:50:30.919
<v Speaker 2>this looked a little haphazard. It doesn't look like these

0:50:31.040 --> 0:50:36.080
<v Speaker 2>early nineties amnesty releases really involved any sort of long

0:50:36.200 --> 0:50:40.440
<v Speaker 2>process of thoroughly accounting for what actually happened and documenting

0:50:40.480 --> 0:50:43.480
<v Speaker 2>the specifics and getting statements on the record, getting people

0:50:43.520 --> 0:50:47.680
<v Speaker 2>to admit what they'd done. They just sort of let

0:50:47.680 --> 0:50:52.200
<v Speaker 2>people go and one of the more egregious instances of

0:50:52.239 --> 0:50:56.319
<v Speaker 2>this was the release of Baron Stretum in nineteen ninety two.

0:50:57.360 --> 0:51:00.640
<v Speaker 2>The men who laughed as he shot pedestrians at random

0:51:01.360 --> 0:51:05.520
<v Speaker 2>had served just four years, and the release of political

0:51:05.560 --> 0:51:09.080
<v Speaker 2>prisoners was a part of the ongoing negotiations between the

0:51:09.160 --> 0:51:13.480
<v Speaker 2>National Party administration and the African National Congress. Both sides

0:51:13.520 --> 0:51:15.279
<v Speaker 2>were getting some of their people out of prison, and

0:51:15.320 --> 0:51:19.280
<v Speaker 2>the A and C seemed generally supportive of the strategy,

0:51:19.719 --> 0:51:24.040
<v Speaker 2>but not when it came to Barons Stritum. Cyril Ramaposa,

0:51:24.239 --> 0:51:27.080
<v Speaker 2>the current President of South Africa, was the A and

0:51:27.160 --> 0:51:30.080
<v Speaker 2>C General secretary back in nineteen ninety two, and he

0:51:30.120 --> 0:51:34.359
<v Speaker 2>issued their statement condemning the decision. Our prisoners will not

0:51:34.400 --> 0:51:37.200
<v Speaker 2>go out and commit these acts again, he said. But

0:51:37.239 --> 0:51:39.600
<v Speaker 2>there's no guarantee that the prisoners who hate black people

0:51:39.640 --> 0:51:44.160
<v Speaker 2>will not come out and shoot more black people. Baron

0:51:44.200 --> 0:51:47.600
<v Speaker 2>Stretum didn't carry out another mass shooting after his release,

0:51:47.760 --> 0:51:50.840
<v Speaker 2>not that I'm aware of, but he did continue to

0:51:50.920 --> 0:51:55.600
<v Speaker 2>support and encourage far right violence. Shortly after his release.

0:51:55.680 --> 0:52:00.520
<v Speaker 2>Australian journalist Alan Hogan interviewed Stridam about the murders. Camera

0:52:01.560 --> 0:52:05.840
<v Speaker 2>not in a studio or his living room. No, the

0:52:05.880 --> 0:52:09.759
<v Speaker 2>interview took place as the pair walked together along the

0:52:09.760 --> 0:52:13.080
<v Speaker 2>path that Stridam had taken that day, and he's pointing

0:52:13.160 --> 0:52:17.960
<v Speaker 2>out the locations each spot where he took a human life,

0:52:19.280 --> 0:52:24.799
<v Speaker 2>and he's laughing, and he enthusiastically agrees that, Yeah, if

0:52:24.800 --> 0:52:30.680
<v Speaker 2>you gave me a gun right now, I do it again, Rock.

0:52:30.760 --> 0:52:35.000
<v Speaker 7>Then then I say shut another one here. That's three,

0:52:35.080 --> 0:52:39.279
<v Speaker 7>so that's free so far. You see these couple of

0:52:39.280 --> 0:52:43.200
<v Speaker 7>bucks sitting here now, yeah, would you like to shut

0:52:43.239 --> 0:52:48.279
<v Speaker 7>them another another time?

0:52:54.560 --> 0:52:58.480
<v Speaker 2>All that to say, the early nineties were a little chaotic,

0:52:59.520 --> 0:53:03.279
<v Speaker 2>So I'm come saying, I just don't know why. It

0:53:03.320 --> 0:53:05.800
<v Speaker 2>looks like no one was ever charged for those bombings

0:53:05.800 --> 0:53:10.120
<v Speaker 2>in July of nineteen ninety. I can tell you for

0:53:10.280 --> 0:53:13.520
<v Speaker 2>certain that ten members of the Order were arrested in

0:53:13.560 --> 0:53:17.000
<v Speaker 2>the summer of nineteen ninety after that series of bombings.

0:53:17.800 --> 0:53:21.360
<v Speaker 2>One was released after he agreed to cooperate to escape,

0:53:22.520 --> 0:53:27.000
<v Speaker 2>and Leonard Wienendal Darrel stopped Forth and Horst Cleans were

0:53:27.040 --> 0:53:30.560
<v Speaker 2>in jail, originally held in connection with the bombings for

0:53:30.640 --> 0:53:34.719
<v Speaker 2>violations of Section twenty nine of the Internal Security Act,

0:53:34.960 --> 0:53:37.960
<v Speaker 2>and they seemed to stay in jail for quite a while.

0:53:38.840 --> 0:53:41.560
<v Speaker 2>No charges were ever actually filed against them for those

0:53:41.600 --> 0:53:45.239
<v Speaker 2>bombings in South Africa, but while they were in custody,

0:53:46.000 --> 0:53:49.440
<v Speaker 2>the newly independent nation of Namibia filed a petition to

0:53:49.440 --> 0:53:52.160
<v Speaker 2>have them extradited to face trial for those murders. In

0:53:52.200 --> 0:53:57.000
<v Speaker 2>nineteen eighty nine. The Truth and Reconciliation Report notes in

0:53:57.200 --> 0:54:00.879
<v Speaker 2>passing that they were never interviewed by Nimbia authorities during

0:54:00.880 --> 0:54:06.120
<v Speaker 2>this time period. It doesn't say why, if they asked

0:54:06.120 --> 0:54:09.520
<v Speaker 2>and weren't given permission, or if they just never asked.

0:54:10.239 --> 0:54:12.280
<v Speaker 2>And I do have articles that were published in nineteen

0:54:12.360 --> 0:54:16.040
<v Speaker 2>ninety and nineteen ninety one that seemed to indicate they

0:54:16.120 --> 0:54:20.920
<v Speaker 2>remained in continuous custody throughout this time, But after those

0:54:21.000 --> 0:54:24.120
<v Speaker 2>first few months, the articles stopped mentioning why they'd been

0:54:24.160 --> 0:54:26.560
<v Speaker 2>arrested in the first place, and they only refer to

0:54:26.600 --> 0:54:29.040
<v Speaker 2>the fact that they're still being held pending a determination

0:54:29.040 --> 0:54:33.239
<v Speaker 2>about extradition. By July of nineteen ninety one, a year

0:54:33.280 --> 0:54:36.960
<v Speaker 2>after they were arrested, both Vinendhal and Cleans were reportedly

0:54:37.239 --> 0:54:40.759
<v Speaker 2>dangerously ill from an ongoing hunger strike, along with other

0:54:40.840 --> 0:54:45.480
<v Speaker 2>incarcerated members of the Order Bfolk. They were political prisoners.

0:54:45.520 --> 0:54:48.760
<v Speaker 2>They said they'd only carried out the orders of the state.

0:54:48.800 --> 0:54:52.200
<v Speaker 2>They can't be prosecuted for that, and they said they

0:54:52.239 --> 0:54:55.040
<v Speaker 2>would continue their hunger strike until their demands were met.

0:54:56.960 --> 0:55:00.120
<v Speaker 2>News stories show Fienandl was on a hunger strike as

0:55:00.160 --> 0:55:03.520
<v Speaker 2>early as January of ninety one and as late as

0:55:03.600 --> 0:55:06.680
<v Speaker 2>August of ninety two, So that can't have been continuous

0:55:06.719 --> 0:55:11.680
<v Speaker 2>because he's still alive. But for about two years, I

0:55:11.800 --> 0:55:14.240
<v Speaker 2>can place him in jail and he's going on intermittent

0:55:14.280 --> 0:55:19.279
<v Speaker 2>hunger strikes to protest this continued detention. In April of

0:55:19.360 --> 0:55:22.120
<v Speaker 2>nineteen ninety two, a South African judge did rule that

0:55:22.160 --> 0:55:26.399
<v Speaker 2>the Autio three could be extradited to Namibia. Stop Fourth

0:55:26.440 --> 0:55:29.880
<v Speaker 2>and Venandal tried to appeal that ruling, but horse Glen's

0:55:29.920 --> 0:55:34.040
<v Speaker 2>wasn't really participating. He just kind of disappeared, and when

0:55:34.040 --> 0:55:36.240
<v Speaker 2>they were all released on bond in December of nineteen

0:55:36.280 --> 0:55:40.280
<v Speaker 2>ninety two to await this final ruling, he disappeared entirely.

0:55:42.080 --> 0:55:45.279
<v Speaker 2>It would take another four years, but in nineteen ninety six,

0:55:45.320 --> 0:55:50.240
<v Speaker 2>the Minister of Justice finally signed the extradition order. Horst

0:55:50.239 --> 0:55:53.600
<v Speaker 2>Glens was otherwise engaged by Van He was serving time

0:55:53.640 --> 0:55:56.879
<v Speaker 2>for the plot we'll cover next week. But Darrell stop

0:55:56.920 --> 0:55:59.480
<v Speaker 2>Fourth and Leonard Venondal were ordered to surrender themselves for

0:55:59.520 --> 0:56:05.440
<v Speaker 2>extradition to Namibia, but they didn't. I can't figure out

0:56:05.440 --> 0:56:09.799
<v Speaker 2>where Darryl stopped Fourth ended up. I tried, but I

0:56:09.840 --> 0:56:14.600
<v Speaker 2>know exactly where Leonard Venendall is because just as he

0:56:14.680 --> 0:56:17.440
<v Speaker 2>was due to present himself to the authorities to be extradited,

0:56:18.239 --> 0:56:21.840
<v Speaker 2>he stole a car, crossed the border and flew to

0:56:21.840 --> 0:56:26.520
<v Speaker 2>the United Kingdom. Some reporting says he initially entered the

0:56:26.600 --> 0:56:30.319
<v Speaker 2>United Kingdom using a false passport, probably because he was

0:56:30.360 --> 0:56:32.879
<v Speaker 2>on Inner Poll's most wanted list, and that he didn't

0:56:32.880 --> 0:56:36.400
<v Speaker 2>try to claim asylum until after he was caught, but

0:56:36.480 --> 0:56:41.200
<v Speaker 2>it's unclear. The man that Eugene Tareblanche used to affectionately

0:56:41.239 --> 0:56:45.680
<v Speaker 2>refer to as my little fanatic settled down with his

0:56:45.719 --> 0:56:49.239
<v Speaker 2>family in Wisbeck, a town about one hundred miles north

0:56:49.239 --> 0:56:52.520
<v Speaker 2>of London. He's the chair of the Wisbeck Rugby Club

0:56:52.760 --> 0:56:56.440
<v Speaker 2>and his wife Tracy, is the treasurer. The payday loan

0:56:56.520 --> 0:56:59.000
<v Speaker 2>company he started after moving to England went into liquidation

0:56:59.080 --> 0:57:02.080
<v Speaker 2>a few years ago. I'm not really familiar with how

0:57:02.080 --> 0:57:04.600
<v Speaker 2>anything works in the UK, and I really don't know

0:57:04.640 --> 0:57:07.880
<v Speaker 2>how you could bankrupt a business that's pure extortionate profit,

0:57:08.000 --> 0:57:12.919
<v Speaker 2>but that is what the paperwork appears to show. There's

0:57:12.920 --> 0:57:15.240
<v Speaker 2>been a handful of articles over the years asking why

0:57:15.400 --> 0:57:18.560
<v Speaker 2>Leonard Wienandal was allowed to enter and remain in the

0:57:18.640 --> 0:57:22.080
<v Speaker 2>United Kingdom. In two thousand and three, a reporter tracked

0:57:22.160 --> 0:57:25.200
<v Speaker 2>him down in his home in Wisbec, and Searchlight magazine

0:57:25.200 --> 0:57:29.400
<v Speaker 2>would later report that Vnandal allegedly attacked the reporter, grabbing

0:57:29.440 --> 0:57:31.920
<v Speaker 2>him and slamming him up against a wall, shouting, you're

0:57:31.920 --> 0:57:36.480
<v Speaker 2>going to find yourself in a very negative position. Subsequent

0:57:36.560 --> 0:57:40.680
<v Speaker 2>attempts to write articles about Venondal don't contain quotes from him.

0:57:42.840 --> 0:57:46.080
<v Speaker 2>He and his wife are South African citizens born in

0:57:46.120 --> 0:57:50.920
<v Speaker 2>South Africa. There's no evidence he actually applied for political asylum.

0:57:51.160 --> 0:57:53.919
<v Speaker 2>Corporate filings for his bankrupt paid a loan company list

0:57:53.960 --> 0:57:58.360
<v Speaker 2>his nationality as South African, which, again, knowing nothing about

0:57:58.600 --> 0:58:02.600
<v Speaker 2>British business zoom, means he did not seek British citizenship.

0:58:04.320 --> 0:58:07.880
<v Speaker 2>So the UK is just willingly harboring a man who

0:58:08.000 --> 0:58:13.600
<v Speaker 2>still wanted for two murders in Namibia. International extradition law

0:58:13.640 --> 0:58:16.320
<v Speaker 2>can be a bit tricky, but ultimately even if they

0:58:16.720 --> 0:58:21.280
<v Speaker 2>couldn't or don't want to extradite him to Namibia, why

0:58:21.360 --> 0:58:24.040
<v Speaker 2>is he still in the UK. They could deport him

0:58:24.080 --> 0:58:28.200
<v Speaker 2>back to South Africa, and presumably the South African government

0:58:28.240 --> 0:58:31.640
<v Speaker 2>would finish what they started in nineteen ninety and send

0:58:31.720 --> 0:58:37.440
<v Speaker 2>him to Namibia. In February of this year, as Donald

0:58:37.480 --> 0:58:40.920
<v Speaker 2>Trump started parroting white nationalist talking points about South Africa,

0:58:41.960 --> 0:58:45.800
<v Speaker 2>Mihnandhl made a flurry of online posts praising the American President,

0:58:46.800 --> 0:58:50.960
<v Speaker 2>writing in one post last month, thank you President Donald J. Trump,

0:58:51.040 --> 0:58:53.120
<v Speaker 2>not only for hearing the plight of my people, the

0:58:53.120 --> 0:58:55.960
<v Speaker 2>poor africaners, but for boldly stepping up to stand with

0:58:56.040 --> 0:58:58.240
<v Speaker 2>them in their hour of need and face of adversity.

0:59:00.040 --> 0:59:03.920
<v Speaker 2>Jimmy Carter died in December. Bvenandal posted he just died,

0:59:03.960 --> 0:59:06.760
<v Speaker 2>so we're supposed to pretend he's a saint. But Carter

0:59:06.920 --> 0:59:11.959
<v Speaker 2>was instrumental in killing the free, prosperous state of Rhodesia.

0:59:13.440 --> 0:59:16.160
<v Speaker 2>Like I said, I can't tell you whatever became of

0:59:16.240 --> 0:59:20.040
<v Speaker 2>Darrell stop fourth, but we'll pick back up next week

0:59:20.600 --> 0:59:24.240
<v Speaker 2>with horsed cleans. He was released from the South African

0:59:24.280 --> 0:59:27.160
<v Speaker 2>jail in nineteen ninety two, pending a decision on whether

0:59:27.240 --> 0:59:31.200
<v Speaker 2>or not he could be extradited to Namibia. Unlike stop

0:59:31.200 --> 0:59:33.800
<v Speaker 2>fourth in Biennondal, he doesn't seem to have participated in

0:59:33.840 --> 0:59:38.000
<v Speaker 2>the legal battle to appeal that decision. He went underground,

0:59:39.240 --> 0:59:43.160
<v Speaker 2>and he doesn't resurface again until nineteen ninety four, when

0:59:43.160 --> 0:59:47.720
<v Speaker 2>he's arrested again, this time after a shootout with the

0:59:47.760 --> 0:59:51.000
<v Speaker 2>South African police that left one of his young German

0:59:51.040 --> 0:59:55.280
<v Speaker 2>mercenaries dead. And that's where we'll find the woman who

0:59:55.360 --> 0:59:59.280
<v Speaker 2>set me down this long, strange path. It was Monica

0:59:59.320 --> 1:00:03.919
<v Speaker 2>Huggett who was graciously playing host for those foreign mercenaries.

1:00:24.480 --> 1:00:27.960
<v Speaker 2>In early March of nineteen ninety four, three men left

1:00:28.000 --> 1:00:33.080
<v Speaker 2>the Bosnian city of Siroki brieg German mercenaries Falk Semang

1:00:33.160 --> 1:00:36.600
<v Speaker 2>and Ralph Moracas were eager for a change of scenery,

1:00:37.920 --> 1:00:40.720
<v Speaker 2>not because they had tired of their lives as soldiers

1:00:40.720 --> 1:00:43.400
<v Speaker 2>of fortune, but because they were in a bit of

1:00:43.440 --> 1:00:48.200
<v Speaker 2>hot water after murdering two of their fellow mercenaries, and

1:00:48.320 --> 1:00:51.240
<v Speaker 2>Ronald Doyster, a Dutch mercenary they'd worked with on his

1:00:51.400 --> 1:00:55.200
<v Speaker 2>last stint with the Croatian forces, was happy to recruit

1:00:55.240 --> 1:00:58.400
<v Speaker 2>them to a new mission, one far away from the

1:00:58.440 --> 1:01:02.760
<v Speaker 2>mess they'd made in the Balkans. Before they left, they

1:01:02.800 --> 1:01:06.600
<v Speaker 2>took a few souvenirs, a couple of AK forty sevens,

1:01:07.200 --> 1:01:13.080
<v Speaker 2>one pistol, eight kilos of semtex, a plastic explosive, and

1:01:13.120 --> 1:01:17.280
<v Speaker 2>a crate of hand grenades. They stashed the stolen weapons

1:01:17.360 --> 1:01:20.040
<v Speaker 2>under the seats of the old Citron that Doyster was driving.

1:01:21.480 --> 1:01:25.840
<v Speaker 2>Doyster was no stranger to committing crimes across borders. He'd

1:01:25.880 --> 1:01:28.640
<v Speaker 2>been a soldier for hire for over a decade and

1:01:28.720 --> 1:01:31.400
<v Speaker 2>had served a bit of time in Ireland for arms smuggling.

1:01:32.880 --> 1:01:36.200
<v Speaker 2>He was confident that his expertly forged un press credentials

1:01:36.200 --> 1:01:39.280
<v Speaker 2>were all they'd need to ensure a clean getaway without

1:01:39.320 --> 1:01:45.240
<v Speaker 2>anyone searching the vehicle, and he was right. After driving

1:01:45.240 --> 1:01:50.560
<v Speaker 2>nearly two thousand kilometers, they reached their first destination, the

1:01:50.560 --> 1:01:55.160
<v Speaker 2>Belgian city of Roussillara. There they met with Roger Spinewen,

1:01:55.760 --> 1:01:57.920
<v Speaker 2>the leader of a Belgian Neo Nazi group called the

1:01:58.040 --> 1:02:01.320
<v Speaker 2>Order of Flemish Militants. He was a bit of a

1:02:01.400 --> 1:02:05.600
<v Speaker 2>legend in certain circles. He was already an old man,

1:02:06.000 --> 1:02:07.880
<v Speaker 2>but in the seventies he'd led a small group of

1:02:07.920 --> 1:02:13.680
<v Speaker 2>Belgian Nazis in a daring heist of sorts, successfully stealing

1:02:13.680 --> 1:02:16.120
<v Speaker 2>the corpse of a long dead Nazi priest from his

1:02:16.240 --> 1:02:19.240
<v Speaker 2>grave in Austria to be reinterred on his home soil

1:02:19.280 --> 1:02:22.760
<v Speaker 2>in Belgium. And on that day in March of nineteen

1:02:22.800 --> 1:02:26.920
<v Speaker 2>ninety four, Spinewin paid Douster eleven thousand Deutsche marks for

1:02:27.000 --> 1:02:32.240
<v Speaker 2>the stolen weapons, but he gave him one more thing directions.

1:02:33.840 --> 1:02:36.280
<v Speaker 2>It had been Spinewen who had asked Deuster to return

1:02:36.320 --> 1:02:40.160
<v Speaker 2>to Bosnia this one last time, not as a mercenary

1:02:40.200 --> 1:02:44.440
<v Speaker 2>this time, but to fetch hardware and recruits for a

1:02:44.480 --> 1:02:49.960
<v Speaker 2>new mission, one in South Africa. The Aeging Neo Nazi

1:02:50.000 --> 1:02:53.320
<v Speaker 2>had spent his life fighting for fascism At home in Belgium.

1:02:54.280 --> 1:02:56.280
<v Speaker 2>His son John was a member of parliament as a

1:02:56.320 --> 1:03:00.360
<v Speaker 2>leader in the far right party of Vlam's Bloc. World

1:03:00.480 --> 1:03:03.600
<v Speaker 2>continued to change around him. He hoped to retire one

1:03:03.640 --> 1:03:07.640
<v Speaker 2>day in a beautiful white Ethno state in Southern Africa.

1:03:09.160 --> 1:03:11.640
<v Speaker 2>Here on the eve of the end of apartheid, though

1:03:12.200 --> 1:03:15.160
<v Speaker 2>that dream was starting to look less and less likely,

1:03:16.560 --> 1:03:19.560
<v Speaker 2>unless they could incite enough violence in those final months

1:03:20.080 --> 1:03:23.240
<v Speaker 2>to convince the white population of South Africa that they

1:03:23.280 --> 1:03:27.600
<v Speaker 2>needed to secede to form a new pure white nation,

1:03:29.240 --> 1:03:32.280
<v Speaker 2>and this was the task he'd recruited these mercenaries for.

1:03:34.160 --> 1:03:38.160
<v Speaker 2>It wasn't safe to depart directly from Belgium, the authorities

1:03:38.160 --> 1:03:42.840
<v Speaker 2>there were already a little suspicious. Instead, the mercenaries took

1:03:42.840 --> 1:03:46.600
<v Speaker 2>the ferry across the English Channel to Ramsgate, a seaside

1:03:46.640 --> 1:03:51.120
<v Speaker 2>town in Kent. There, with an introduction from Spinowin, they

1:03:51.120 --> 1:03:55.160
<v Speaker 2>made their next contacts, members of the British fascist group,

1:03:55.560 --> 1:03:59.560
<v Speaker 2>the League of Saint George. They spent a few days

1:03:59.560 --> 1:04:02.640
<v Speaker 2>there making final preparations for their journey with the help

1:04:02.640 --> 1:04:06.480
<v Speaker 2>of their new English friends. This was becoming something of

1:04:06.480 --> 1:04:09.880
<v Speaker 2>a routine for the members of the League of Saint George.

1:04:09.960 --> 1:04:12.440
<v Speaker 2>Just two months earlier, they'd hosted another batch of German

1:04:12.480 --> 1:04:17.000
<v Speaker 2>mercenaries making the same trip. They didn't know just yet

1:04:17.440 --> 1:04:21.800
<v Speaker 2>that one of those men was already dead. On the

1:04:21.840 --> 1:04:24.200
<v Speaker 2>evening before Doyster and the Germans were scheduled to fly

1:04:24.240 --> 1:04:27.960
<v Speaker 2>out of Heathrow, Roger Spinowen dispatched one of his sons

1:04:28.000 --> 1:04:33.840
<v Speaker 2>to Ramsgate with one final message for the mercenaries. Willie

1:04:33.880 --> 1:04:37.880
<v Speaker 2>Spinowen handed Ronald Doyster a sealed envelope and passed along

1:04:37.920 --> 1:04:42.400
<v Speaker 2>his father's order, Doyster was to personally hand deliver this

1:04:42.560 --> 1:04:45.360
<v Speaker 2>envelope to the woman who would meet him at the airport,

1:04:46.640 --> 1:04:54.480
<v Speaker 2>a woman named Monica hugget I'm Molly Conger and this

1:04:55.520 --> 1:05:14.240
<v Speaker 2>is weird, little guys. This is the part of the

1:05:14.280 --> 1:05:17.400
<v Speaker 2>story where we finally rejoined the woman we started with,

1:05:18.360 --> 1:05:26.040
<v Speaker 2>Monica Huggett Stone. It's been a long, strange journey. We

1:05:26.080 --> 1:05:29.760
<v Speaker 2>started out a few weeks ago in twenty twelve, in Sacramento, California,

1:05:31.240 --> 1:05:34.760
<v Speaker 2>American neo Nazis from the Golden State Skinheads were rallying

1:05:34.760 --> 1:05:38.439
<v Speaker 2>outside the state capitol holding the flag of apartheid South

1:05:38.480 --> 1:05:42.920
<v Speaker 2>Africa when counter protesters from a nearby occupy encampment showed

1:05:43.000 --> 1:05:48.280
<v Speaker 2>up to heckle them. What an odd site, those skinheads

1:05:48.320 --> 1:05:51.360
<v Speaker 2>in their black jackets rallying for the imaginary cause of

1:05:51.360 --> 1:05:56.080
<v Speaker 2>a white genocide against South African farmers. That rally was

1:05:56.080 --> 1:05:58.760
<v Speaker 2>one of more than a dozen simultaneous rallies across the

1:05:58.800 --> 1:06:02.480
<v Speaker 2>United States that day, though they were mostly poorly attended

1:06:02.560 --> 1:06:06.440
<v Speaker 2>and some were barely publicized, and all of them were

1:06:06.520 --> 1:06:10.520
<v Speaker 2>organized by a short lived Aryan Nations affiliated group called

1:06:10.880 --> 1:06:17.040
<v Speaker 2>the South Africa Project, and that group itself was almost

1:06:17.040 --> 1:06:21.080
<v Speaker 2>certainly really just two people, a long time Arian Nations

1:06:21.120 --> 1:06:25.560
<v Speaker 2>member named Maurice Goulette and a mysterious woman in Louisiana

1:06:26.520 --> 1:06:32.400
<v Speaker 2>named Monica Stone. I'm always surprised by the twists and

1:06:32.480 --> 1:06:36.080
<v Speaker 2>turns that these stories take. Once you start turning over

1:06:36.120 --> 1:06:39.800
<v Speaker 2>a few rocks, there's always some bizarre new ankle that

1:06:40.040 --> 1:06:42.200
<v Speaker 2>takes us miles from where I thought we were going.

1:06:43.840 --> 1:06:46.600
<v Speaker 2>But this one has been the strangest ride of any

1:06:46.640 --> 1:06:51.040
<v Speaker 2>weird little guy so far. In this chapter of the story,

1:06:51.600 --> 1:06:55.280
<v Speaker 2>we'll try to trace the paths of these European mercenaries

1:06:55.320 --> 1:07:00.360
<v Speaker 2>from Bosnia to South Africa. It turns out there was

1:07:00.400 --> 1:07:04.120
<v Speaker 2>an international network to funnel guns for hire from one

1:07:04.160 --> 1:07:08.920
<v Speaker 2>conflict to another, And as cloak and dagger as all

1:07:08.960 --> 1:07:14.800
<v Speaker 2>of that sounds, it wasn't really a secret, not entirely.

1:07:16.600 --> 1:07:20.760
<v Speaker 2>Searchlight magazine had reported on the scheme months before Those

1:07:20.760 --> 1:07:25.920
<v Speaker 2>German mercenaries even bought their plane tickets. Every year for

1:07:26.000 --> 1:07:29.760
<v Speaker 2>decades now, European Neo Nazis gather in the Belgian city

1:07:29.840 --> 1:07:34.520
<v Speaker 2>of Dixmude for an international fascist get together, and at

1:07:34.520 --> 1:07:37.320
<v Speaker 2>the event in nineteen ninety three, there was a lot

1:07:37.360 --> 1:07:42.880
<v Speaker 2>of talk about changing their focus about redirecting mercenaries from

1:07:42.920 --> 1:07:49.560
<v Speaker 2>the Balkans to South Africa, and plans were made. At

1:07:49.640 --> 1:07:52.760
<v Speaker 2>least fifteen mercenaries were pledged to be dispatched in early

1:07:52.840 --> 1:07:56.600
<v Speaker 2>nineteen ninety four with plans to fight alongside Robert vent

1:07:56.640 --> 1:08:02.640
<v Speaker 2>Honter's Boristock Party. All of this was published in print

1:08:03.320 --> 1:08:08.440
<v Speaker 2>in English in the fall of nineteen ninety three, months

1:08:08.640 --> 1:08:14.960
<v Speaker 2>before this actually happened. That same publication, Searchlight magazine, would

1:08:14.960 --> 1:08:17.479
<v Speaker 2>eventually uncover more of the details about what went on

1:08:17.520 --> 1:08:21.320
<v Speaker 2>at Dixmuda in nineteen ninety three. It was at this

1:08:21.400 --> 1:08:25.320
<v Speaker 2>summit that Roger Spinwin recruited Ronald Doyster to return to

1:08:25.360 --> 1:08:30.879
<v Speaker 2>Bosnia to recruit more mercenaries for South Africa, and according

1:08:30.880 --> 1:08:34.400
<v Speaker 2>to another source, it was also sometime in late nineteen

1:08:34.479 --> 1:08:37.360
<v Speaker 2>ninety three that Roger Spinwin paid a visit to South

1:08:37.400 --> 1:08:43.599
<v Speaker 2>Africa himself at the invitation of Monica Huggett. I mentioned

1:08:43.600 --> 1:08:46.559
<v Speaker 2>a few weeks ago that the first step in tracking

1:08:46.600 --> 1:08:50.240
<v Speaker 2>this Monica Stone, the one who organized those rallies in

1:08:50.280 --> 1:08:53.799
<v Speaker 2>twenty twelve, back to her home country of South Africa,

1:08:54.880 --> 1:08:59.479
<v Speaker 2>was figuring out her maiden name, which is Huggitt, and

1:08:59.520 --> 1:09:02.040
<v Speaker 2>I did that by digging up old corporate filings for

1:09:02.120 --> 1:09:05.920
<v Speaker 2>a Christian identity church called the New Christian Crusade Church.

1:09:07.200 --> 1:09:09.479
<v Speaker 2>And the New Christian Crusade Church was run by a

1:09:09.479 --> 1:09:15.240
<v Speaker 2>man named James k Warner. I don't think Warner necessarily

1:09:15.320 --> 1:09:19.080
<v Speaker 2>qualifies as a big name, but he shows up in

1:09:19.120 --> 1:09:23.280
<v Speaker 2>a lot of big stories. He was an early member

1:09:23.280 --> 1:09:26.600
<v Speaker 2>of George Lincoln Rockwell's American Nazi Party. He was a

1:09:26.680 --> 1:09:29.639
<v Speaker 2>leading member of the short lived National States Rights Party,

1:09:30.640 --> 1:09:33.360
<v Speaker 2>and in his clan days, he was a very close

1:09:33.439 --> 1:09:37.880
<v Speaker 2>friend of David Duke. I've left myself a note to

1:09:38.080 --> 1:09:40.880
<v Speaker 2>come back to James k Warner. I think there's some

1:09:41.000 --> 1:09:45.320
<v Speaker 2>real weird little guy stuff going on here, and I

1:09:45.360 --> 1:09:48.000
<v Speaker 2>do have a quick correction to make, as much as

1:09:48.000 --> 1:09:51.280
<v Speaker 2>it pains me, I just realized I misspoke in the

1:09:51.360 --> 1:09:55.080
<v Speaker 2>last episode where I mentioned James k Warner. I called

1:09:55.160 --> 1:09:59.760
<v Speaker 2>him Robert k Warner. Careless. Honestly, I should have caught that.

1:09:59.840 --> 1:10:02.880
<v Speaker 2>But to be honest with you, I'm recording this at

1:10:03.240 --> 1:10:06.120
<v Speaker 2>one in the morning, and this is early by my

1:10:06.240 --> 1:10:08.599
<v Speaker 2>usual standards. I'm always a little down to the wire.

1:10:10.200 --> 1:10:12.960
<v Speaker 2>But I think what happened there was just a slight

1:10:13.000 --> 1:10:17.320
<v Speaker 2>mix up because in my defense, James Conrad Warner did

1:10:17.360 --> 1:10:21.439
<v Speaker 2>have a brother named Robert L. Warner, and he did

1:10:21.560 --> 1:10:23.760
<v Speaker 2>use his brother's name on the deeds to some of

1:10:23.800 --> 1:10:28.320
<v Speaker 2>the church property. But it turns out that Monica's connection

1:10:28.400 --> 1:10:31.760
<v Speaker 2>to Robert K. Warner may be the answer to a

1:10:31.840 --> 1:10:37.200
<v Speaker 2>question that's been bothering me for weeks. How on earth

1:10:37.880 --> 1:10:41.280
<v Speaker 2>did a woman in South Africa manage to join the

1:10:41.400 --> 1:10:45.840
<v Speaker 2>Ku Klux Klan? If you recall the story in the

1:10:45.880 --> 1:10:49.639
<v Speaker 2>episode two weeks ago, Monica Hugget was arrested in nineteen

1:10:49.680 --> 1:10:52.759
<v Speaker 2>eighty one in connection with a series of pro apartheid

1:10:52.840 --> 1:10:56.800
<v Speaker 2>bombings by a group that called itself the Vid Commando,

1:10:56.960 --> 1:10:59.800
<v Speaker 2>and after her arrest, she agreed to testify against the

1:11:00.000 --> 1:11:04.519
<v Speaker 2>Italian fascists that she'd helped carry out those bombings. During

1:11:04.560 --> 1:11:07.040
<v Speaker 2>the trial, she said she was a member of the

1:11:07.120 --> 1:11:11.880
<v Speaker 2>American Ku Klux Klan, and she told the authorities that

1:11:11.920 --> 1:11:14.120
<v Speaker 2>the books they'd used as a guide for making those

1:11:14.160 --> 1:11:18.720
<v Speaker 2>bombs had been sent to her by her American clan contacts,

1:11:20.080 --> 1:11:22.400
<v Speaker 2>So she wasn't just a member of a Ku Klux

1:11:22.479 --> 1:11:28.120
<v Speaker 2>Klan style group that operated independently in South Africa. She's

1:11:28.120 --> 1:11:31.680
<v Speaker 2>saying that she has active contact with the clan in

1:11:31.720 --> 1:11:35.559
<v Speaker 2>the United States, because there is a big difference there.

1:11:36.479 --> 1:11:39.000
<v Speaker 2>There have been groups in other countries that have adopted

1:11:39.000 --> 1:11:43.600
<v Speaker 2>the esthetic and the ideology of the clan without necessarily

1:11:43.640 --> 1:11:47.200
<v Speaker 2>maintaining meaningful contact with the group they're modeling themselves after.

1:11:48.680 --> 1:11:52.280
<v Speaker 2>In other examples, what looks like a foreign iteration of

1:11:52.320 --> 1:11:55.160
<v Speaker 2>the clan is actually just an American who happens to

1:11:55.200 --> 1:11:58.680
<v Speaker 2>be living overseas. In the nineteen eighties, there was an

1:11:58.680 --> 1:12:01.840
<v Speaker 2>American serviceman station in Germany who claimed that he was

1:12:01.920 --> 1:12:05.680
<v Speaker 2>leading an active clan group in Bavaria. And in the

1:12:05.720 --> 1:12:09.000
<v Speaker 2>Denis Mahon story, we saw an American klansman who traveled

1:12:09.040 --> 1:12:13.400
<v Speaker 2>internationally trying to spark an interest in American clan aesthetics

1:12:13.400 --> 1:12:18.759
<v Speaker 2>and ideology, but with relatively little success. So what Monica's

1:12:18.800 --> 1:12:23.439
<v Speaker 2>talking about here is something a little different, and I

1:12:23.520 --> 1:12:28.240
<v Speaker 2>was stumped, truly. As we'll get to later on in

1:12:28.240 --> 1:12:32.559
<v Speaker 2>the story, I can absolutely connect Monica huggets Stone to

1:12:32.560 --> 1:12:36.760
<v Speaker 2>the American Ku Klux Klan by the nineteen nineties. I've

1:12:36.800 --> 1:12:40.160
<v Speaker 2>got the Federal election commissioned filings to prove that that's easy.

1:12:41.560 --> 1:12:45.160
<v Speaker 2>But I still have no answers when it comes to

1:12:45.200 --> 1:12:48.800
<v Speaker 2>the question of klansmen in South Africa in the late

1:12:48.960 --> 1:12:55.320
<v Speaker 2>nineteen seventies, not in any concrete way, but I do

1:12:55.400 --> 1:13:00.640
<v Speaker 2>have a theory. One of the sources I've relied on

1:13:00.720 --> 1:13:03.639
<v Speaker 2>heavily throughout this series is a nineteen ninety nine thesis

1:13:03.680 --> 1:13:07.200
<v Speaker 2>by Mita Visser on the white fascist movements in South

1:13:07.240 --> 1:13:11.560
<v Speaker 2>Africa in the twentieth century, and she sort of hints

1:13:11.680 --> 1:13:16.439
<v Speaker 2>at this idea. She writes, quote, the activities of the

1:13:16.479 --> 1:13:20.400
<v Speaker 2>clan in South Africa are obscure. Although the police had

1:13:20.400 --> 1:13:23.719
<v Speaker 2>no concrete evidence that the movement was active in South Africa,

1:13:24.320 --> 1:13:27.240
<v Speaker 2>there were claims in the press in the late seventies

1:13:27.920 --> 1:13:32.160
<v Speaker 2>that branch has existed in the country, And so in

1:13:32.240 --> 1:13:35.400
<v Speaker 2>Visser's thesis she gives a couple of examples that are

1:13:35.479 --> 1:13:41.280
<v Speaker 2>definitely evidence of that esthetic copycat behavior I'm talking about. So,

1:13:41.400 --> 1:13:43.640
<v Speaker 2>when the Vit Commando took credit for those bombings in

1:13:43.720 --> 1:13:47.120
<v Speaker 2>nineteen eighty, the letters they sent to the press had

1:13:47.240 --> 1:13:51.120
<v Speaker 2>a symbol in the letter head that was almost identical

1:13:51.520 --> 1:13:55.280
<v Speaker 2>to the logo used by American clan groups. And in

1:13:55.360 --> 1:13:57.880
<v Speaker 2>nineteen ninety, when two members of the Order of Death

1:13:57.920 --> 1:14:01.960
<v Speaker 2>went on trial for murder, our supporters packed the courtroom,

1:14:02.560 --> 1:14:06.479
<v Speaker 2>and they were all wearing little clan lapel pens, and

1:14:06.479 --> 1:14:09.600
<v Speaker 2>one of them even told a reporter the order is

1:14:09.640 --> 1:14:14.840
<v Speaker 2>long gone. It's the Ku Klux Klan now. In an

1:14:14.920 --> 1:14:17.760
<v Speaker 2>unrelated side note, just to wrap up a loose end

1:14:17.760 --> 1:14:20.840
<v Speaker 2>from the last episode, I can tell I've spent too

1:14:20.920 --> 1:14:24.760
<v Speaker 2>much time digging around for details I'm not gonna need

1:14:24.800 --> 1:14:29.640
<v Speaker 2>for this story when side characters start to look really familiar.

1:14:30.880 --> 1:14:33.200
<v Speaker 2>When I was reading that anecdote about the order of

1:14:33.280 --> 1:14:37.560
<v Speaker 2>death trial in nineteen ninety, I recognized the names of

1:14:37.600 --> 1:14:41.720
<v Speaker 2>the murderers. Cornelius Lottering and Fanny Goosen were two of

1:14:41.760 --> 1:14:45.040
<v Speaker 2>the ten members of the Africaner Resistance movement who were

1:14:45.120 --> 1:14:47.720
<v Speaker 2>arrested in the summer of nineteen ninety. So when they

1:14:47.760 --> 1:14:52.120
<v Speaker 2>scooped up Leonard Wienendahl and Horst Cleans, Lottering and Goosen

1:14:52.160 --> 1:14:55.759
<v Speaker 2>were in that bunch. And I mentioned in last week's

1:14:55.760 --> 1:14:59.680
<v Speaker 2>episode that I couldn't exactly tell what became of all

1:14:59.720 --> 1:15:02.759
<v Speaker 2>ten of those men, but two of them had escaped

1:15:02.800 --> 1:15:07.880
<v Speaker 2>from custody, and those two were Lauding and Guzen, so

1:15:07.960 --> 1:15:10.200
<v Speaker 2>I guess they found them again because they did get

1:15:10.200 --> 1:15:15.160
<v Speaker 2>convicted of murder. But back to the question of the clan.

1:15:16.760 --> 1:15:19.320
<v Speaker 2>I could have left it there, but I think you

1:15:19.439 --> 1:15:23.519
<v Speaker 2>probably know by now that I didn't, because if he

1:15:23.640 --> 1:15:27.160
<v Speaker 2>dig just a little bit deeper into the past. There

1:15:27.400 --> 1:15:30.920
<v Speaker 2>was a man in South Africa who called himself the

1:15:31.040 --> 1:15:34.600
<v Speaker 2>leader of the South African Ku Klux Klan in the

1:15:34.680 --> 1:15:37.760
<v Speaker 2>nineteen sixties and into the seventies. He died in the

1:15:37.840 --> 1:15:44.599
<v Speaker 2>late seventies. His name was Raymond Kirch Rudman, and by

1:15:44.640 --> 1:15:46.519
<v Speaker 2>the time he was trying to get a South African

1:15:46.600 --> 1:15:49.640
<v Speaker 2>clan going, he was already pretty old, and he was

1:15:49.720 --> 1:15:53.600
<v Speaker 2>decades into his career as a professional anti Semite with

1:15:53.800 --> 1:16:00.120
<v Speaker 2>impressive international connections. Aside from his clan activities, Rudman was

1:16:00.160 --> 1:16:02.720
<v Speaker 2>also the leader of an African or nationalist group called

1:16:02.760 --> 1:16:08.839
<v Speaker 2>the Boranasi, originally founded by Many Merits. Meretz's son, also

1:16:08.880 --> 1:16:12.640
<v Speaker 2>called many Merits, was a prominent figure in the Africaner

1:16:12.680 --> 1:16:15.879
<v Speaker 2>resistance movement. During the same time period as Monica Huggett

1:16:17.160 --> 1:16:20.679
<v Speaker 2>and Rudman also led a group called the Anglo Norman Union.

1:16:22.000 --> 1:16:25.280
<v Speaker 2>I can't find much information about the extent to which

1:16:25.680 --> 1:16:29.400
<v Speaker 2>that group actually operated in South Africa, like did it

1:16:29.479 --> 1:16:34.719
<v Speaker 2>actually have real members, But in nineteen sixty five. Rudman

1:16:34.800 --> 1:16:38.000
<v Speaker 2>did use the group to join the World Union of

1:16:38.120 --> 1:16:43.360
<v Speaker 2>National Socialists. That was an effort by George Lincoln Rockwell's

1:16:43.360 --> 1:16:46.479
<v Speaker 2>American Nazi Party and Colin Jordan, who was then the

1:16:46.520 --> 1:16:49.000
<v Speaker 2>head of the National Socialist movement in the United Kingdom,

1:16:49.600 --> 1:16:53.519
<v Speaker 2>to form I guess exactly what it sounds, a World

1:16:53.960 --> 1:16:58.679
<v Speaker 2>Union of Nazi groups. But when it comes to the Clan,

1:16:59.439 --> 1:17:02.400
<v Speaker 2>there's not much written, at least not that I was

1:17:02.439 --> 1:17:05.760
<v Speaker 2>able to find about the history of the clan in

1:17:05.800 --> 1:17:11.120
<v Speaker 2>South Africa. But everything that does exist has Ray Rudman's

1:17:11.200 --> 1:17:17.600
<v Speaker 2>name on it. Last year, doctor William Robert Phillips completed

1:17:17.640 --> 1:17:22.000
<v Speaker 2>his dissertation at Emory University, and I know, I know

1:17:22.160 --> 1:17:25.479
<v Speaker 2>that dissertation has the answers I'm looking for, but it

1:17:25.520 --> 1:17:29.280
<v Speaker 2>is currently embargoed and not available to read. But a

1:17:29.280 --> 1:17:31.439
<v Speaker 2>write up about his research tells me I'm on the

1:17:31.520 --> 1:17:35.720
<v Speaker 2>right track. He was researching anti Semitic bombings in the

1:17:35.800 --> 1:17:39.400
<v Speaker 2>United States during the Civil Rights era when he came

1:17:39.439 --> 1:17:43.559
<v Speaker 2>across one of the same sources I did. An old

1:17:43.640 --> 1:17:46.679
<v Speaker 2>mention of Ray Rudman trying to recruit for a clan

1:17:46.800 --> 1:17:52.160
<v Speaker 2>group in South Africa in the early nineteen sixties. Phillips

1:17:52.160 --> 1:17:54.719
<v Speaker 2>was able to secure grant funding to spend several weeks

1:17:54.760 --> 1:17:57.280
<v Speaker 2>in South Africa at the University of the Free State,

1:17:57.680 --> 1:18:02.240
<v Speaker 2>where Rudman's personal papers are held in a special collection. Again,

1:18:02.400 --> 1:18:07.080
<v Speaker 2>unfortunately for me, I can't read Phillips's research, but I

1:18:07.080 --> 1:18:11.559
<v Speaker 2>do have the finding aid for Rudman's papers, I can't

1:18:11.560 --> 1:18:15.320
<v Speaker 2>actually see what's written. The documents aren't digitized. A finding

1:18:15.320 --> 1:18:19.040
<v Speaker 2>aid is just an inventory listing the contents of various

1:18:19.080 --> 1:18:23.439
<v Speaker 2>boxes and folders, and I would love to get my

1:18:23.600 --> 1:18:27.320
<v Speaker 2>hands on some of those letters because listed in that

1:18:27.439 --> 1:18:32.240
<v Speaker 2>inventory are entries for correspondents between Ray Rudman and the

1:18:32.320 --> 1:18:36.799
<v Speaker 2>New Christian Crusade Church dated as early as the sixties

1:18:36.840 --> 1:18:41.840
<v Speaker 2>and seventies. There's also an entry listing correspondence between Ray

1:18:41.920 --> 1:18:46.080
<v Speaker 2>Rudman and the National States Rights Party dated from the

1:18:46.160 --> 1:18:50.759
<v Speaker 2>nineteen fifties. The inventory also lists more than forty books

1:18:50.760 --> 1:18:54.240
<v Speaker 2>in Rudman's collection that were published by James K Warner,

1:18:54.760 --> 1:18:57.439
<v Speaker 2>either through his Sons of Liberty Press or the New

1:18:57.520 --> 1:19:02.200
<v Speaker 2>Christian Crusade Church. A similar finding aid for the personal

1:19:02.240 --> 1:19:04.760
<v Speaker 2>papers of James k Warner, held by the University of

1:19:04.800 --> 1:19:10.280
<v Speaker 2>Wyoming also lists correspondence between James Warner and Ray Rudman,

1:19:11.800 --> 1:19:15.000
<v Speaker 2>and Warner's Nazi publishing outfit, the Sons of Liberty Press,

1:19:15.640 --> 1:19:19.200
<v Speaker 2>also published and sold English language versions of texts by

1:19:19.439 --> 1:19:23.799
<v Speaker 2>South African anti semi Johann Schumann an African inter nationalist

1:19:23.880 --> 1:19:31.040
<v Speaker 2>politician Yap Maree. So I can't tell you exactly how

1:19:31.120 --> 1:19:35.080
<v Speaker 2>Monica Huggett came to join the Ku Klux Klan, but

1:19:35.160 --> 1:19:38.800
<v Speaker 2>there is some really solid connective tissue here. It doesn't

1:19:38.800 --> 1:19:42.280
<v Speaker 2>feel as random now. So when she moved to the

1:19:42.360 --> 1:19:46.040
<v Speaker 2>United States, she was a close enough associate of James

1:19:46.120 --> 1:19:48.680
<v Speaker 2>K Warner that he put her in charge of his

1:19:48.760 --> 1:19:52.839
<v Speaker 2>new Christian Crusade church, and that has to have something

1:19:52.880 --> 1:19:55.519
<v Speaker 2>to do with the fact that archives show that he

1:19:55.640 --> 1:19:58.800
<v Speaker 2>was in active communication with the far right in South

1:19:58.840 --> 1:20:03.920
<v Speaker 2>Africa from his earliest days in the movement. It looks

1:20:03.920 --> 1:20:06.320
<v Speaker 2>like I have some more digging to do on the

1:20:06.320 --> 1:20:10.400
<v Speaker 2>subject of the Fascist International, because the number of connections

1:20:10.439 --> 1:20:15.200
<v Speaker 2>here is honestly pretty staggering to me. James K Warner

1:20:15.320 --> 1:20:17.760
<v Speaker 2>visited England in the seventies to speak at a meeting

1:20:17.760 --> 1:20:21.479
<v Speaker 2>of the League of Saint George. In nineteen eighty, our

1:20:21.520 --> 1:20:26.560
<v Speaker 2>Belgian Nazi Roger Spinewen was deported from the United States

1:20:26.720 --> 1:20:29.200
<v Speaker 2>while he was here visiting members of the National States

1:20:29.320 --> 1:20:34.519
<v Speaker 2>Rights Party and our South African Clansman Ray Rudman was

1:20:34.600 --> 1:20:37.600
<v Speaker 2>listed as the South African correspondent in issues of a

1:20:37.640 --> 1:20:42.679
<v Speaker 2>British fascist magazine in the nineteen seventies. All of these

1:20:42.720 --> 1:20:50.040
<v Speaker 2>guys are connected going back decades. But I've been promising

1:20:50.080 --> 1:20:54.120
<v Speaker 2>to get to this part of the story for weeks now,

1:20:55.000 --> 1:20:57.479
<v Speaker 2>the part where a handful of German mercenaries get into

1:20:57.479 --> 1:20:59.720
<v Speaker 2>a shootout with the South African police in March of

1:20:59.800 --> 1:21:04.280
<v Speaker 2>night eighteen ninety four. A few episodes ago, I told

1:21:04.320 --> 1:21:06.400
<v Speaker 2>you that one of the first places I found Monica

1:21:06.479 --> 1:21:10.160
<v Speaker 2>Hugget's name was in the South African Truth and Reconciliation

1:21:10.240 --> 1:21:14.920
<v Speaker 2>Commission's Final Report in Volume two. The portion of the

1:21:14.960 --> 1:21:18.560
<v Speaker 2>report that deals with quote the Commission of Gross Violations

1:21:18.600 --> 1:21:23.080
<v Speaker 2>of Human Rights, Chapter seven political violence in the Era

1:21:23.200 --> 1:21:28.760
<v Speaker 2>of Negotiations and Transition. Under the subheading links with international

1:21:28.840 --> 1:21:34.759
<v Speaker 2>right wing groups, the report reads. The first link between

1:21:34.840 --> 1:21:37.439
<v Speaker 2>ultra right terrorism and foreign agencies came to light in

1:21:37.520 --> 1:21:42.080
<v Speaker 2>nineteen eighty two when mister Fabiomiello, mister Massimo Bolo and

1:21:42.160 --> 1:21:45.519
<v Speaker 2>mister Eugenio's office all white foreign expatriots known as the

1:21:45.520 --> 1:21:48.799
<v Speaker 2>White Commando, were convicted of the nineteen seventy nine bombing

1:21:48.840 --> 1:21:53.240
<v Speaker 2>of the offices of prominent academic doctor Jan Lombard. Originally,

1:21:53.240 --> 1:21:55.839
<v Speaker 2>mister Kus ver Mullin and Miss Monica hugget were arrested

1:21:55.840 --> 1:21:58.880
<v Speaker 2>with them, but Huggitt turned state's witness and Vermullin was

1:21:58.920 --> 1:22:02.800
<v Speaker 2>released after a few days. Huggett's name was subsequently linked

1:22:02.800 --> 1:22:05.000
<v Speaker 2>to a shootout in March of nineteen ninety four between

1:22:05.000 --> 1:22:07.439
<v Speaker 2>the South African police and three German right wingers in

1:22:07.479 --> 1:22:11.280
<v Speaker 2>the Donkerhok area. One German right winger, mister Stephen Rays

1:22:11.360 --> 1:22:14.880
<v Speaker 2>was arrested, Mister Thomas Kuns was shot dead, and a third,

1:22:14.960 --> 1:22:19.519
<v Speaker 2>mister Horse Cleans, was later arrested. A fourth, mister Alexander Nydeleine,

1:22:19.600 --> 1:22:22.200
<v Speaker 2>was later charged in the Cullen and Magistrates Court for

1:22:22.320 --> 1:22:27.120
<v Speaker 2>illegal possession of a firearm. And I read that paragraph

1:22:27.200 --> 1:22:31.760
<v Speaker 2>before you've heard that bit, and at this point you

1:22:31.880 --> 1:22:34.920
<v Speaker 2>know some of the back story that paragraph is talking about.

1:22:36.120 --> 1:22:38.679
<v Speaker 2>Two weeks ago, we talked about the Vit Commando bombings

1:22:38.720 --> 1:22:41.719
<v Speaker 2>in nineteen eighty and we spent most of the last

1:22:41.760 --> 1:22:47.040
<v Speaker 2>episode talking about one of those men Horst Cleans. Before

1:22:47.200 --> 1:22:50.559
<v Speaker 2>that shootout in nineteen ninety four, Glen's had been involved

1:22:50.560 --> 1:22:53.000
<v Speaker 2>in a nineteen eighty nine attack on a United Nations

1:22:53.000 --> 1:22:56.759
<v Speaker 2>outpost in Namibia, killing a security guard and later murdering

1:22:56.800 --> 1:23:00.400
<v Speaker 2>a police constable when he and his accomplices escaped from custody.

1:23:01.920 --> 1:23:04.280
<v Speaker 2>And at some point I teased you a little bit

1:23:04.439 --> 1:23:07.920
<v Speaker 2>with a story about Alexander Nydline. He was the German

1:23:08.000 --> 1:23:11.120
<v Speaker 2>neo Nazi who swore allegiance to Donald Trump at a

1:23:11.120 --> 1:23:34.519
<v Speaker 2>fascist rally in Croatia in twenty seventeen. So we know

1:23:34.560 --> 1:23:37.760
<v Speaker 2>where Horst Clean's was in the early nineties. He was

1:23:37.840 --> 1:23:41.880
<v Speaker 2>in South Africa. But how did those other three men

1:23:42.120 --> 1:23:49.479
<v Speaker 2>actually get there? In nineteen ninety four, Alexander Nydline, Stephen

1:23:49.600 --> 1:23:52.920
<v Speaker 2>Rays and Thomas Koonst follow the same path as the

1:23:52.960 --> 1:23:58.160
<v Speaker 2>mercenaries recruited by Ronald Doyster. They deserted from the Convicts Battalion,

1:23:58.439 --> 1:24:01.640
<v Speaker 2>a paramilitary unit of the Crow Defense Council made up

1:24:01.680 --> 1:24:05.519
<v Speaker 2>of prisoners and foreign mercenaries, and they left Bosnia with

1:24:05.560 --> 1:24:09.120
<v Speaker 2>stolen weapons. Then, with the help of the League of

1:24:09.120 --> 1:24:12.280
<v Speaker 2>Saint George in England, they made their way down to

1:24:12.360 --> 1:24:17.599
<v Speaker 2>South Africa and just like Ronald Doyster. They were given

1:24:17.640 --> 1:24:19.960
<v Speaker 2>the name of a woman who would pick them up

1:24:19.960 --> 1:24:35.799
<v Speaker 2>from the airport, Monica Huggett. And here is another place

1:24:35.920 --> 1:24:39.240
<v Speaker 2>in my research for this story where I found a

1:24:39.360 --> 1:24:43.640
<v Speaker 2>very unlikely source of information that I just couldn't have

1:24:43.680 --> 1:24:48.120
<v Speaker 2>gotten anywhere else. Two weeks ago I had to give

1:24:48.160 --> 1:24:53.360
<v Speaker 2>my begrudging thanks to the Central Intelligence Agency after discovering

1:24:53.439 --> 1:24:57.200
<v Speaker 2>English translations of South African news stories in archived reports

1:24:57.200 --> 1:25:02.040
<v Speaker 2>from the CIA's Foreign Broadcast Information Service. And this week

1:25:02.400 --> 1:25:06.880
<v Speaker 2>I haven't even more unsavory source, I think, though he

1:25:06.960 --> 1:25:07.920
<v Speaker 2>isn't around to hear it.

1:25:10.600 --> 1:25:15.920
<v Speaker 4>This is the prosecution's appeal concerning Praliac in all other

1:25:16.080 --> 1:25:21.280
<v Speaker 4>respect respects affirms the sentence of twenty years of imprisonment,

1:25:21.920 --> 1:25:25.200
<v Speaker 4>subject to credit being given on the rule one oh

1:25:25.200 --> 1:25:28.200
<v Speaker 4>one see of the rules for the period he has

1:25:28.240 --> 1:25:32.920
<v Speaker 4>already spent. In attention, step Praliac. You may be seated,

1:25:36.640 --> 1:25:42.519
<v Speaker 4>wat your stop. Please please sit down.

1:25:45.560 --> 1:25:50.639
<v Speaker 2>That audio might not sound familiar, but if you're extremely online,

1:25:51.280 --> 1:25:54.760
<v Speaker 2>you've seen mimified images of this moment used as a

1:25:54.840 --> 1:25:58.920
<v Speaker 2>reaction give a thousand times. I know it. I'm sure

1:25:58.960 --> 1:26:01.760
<v Speaker 2>you know the one I'm talking about. It's a white

1:26:01.800 --> 1:26:04.400
<v Speaker 2>haired old man in a suit, and he's drinking from

1:26:04.439 --> 1:26:10.240
<v Speaker 2>a small vial. That man is Slobodon Proliac. He died

1:26:10.280 --> 1:26:14.439
<v Speaker 2>by suicide in twenty seventeen, and the meme shows the

1:26:14.479 --> 1:26:17.200
<v Speaker 2>moment that he produced a small vial of cyanide from

1:26:17.240 --> 1:26:20.439
<v Speaker 2>his pocket after a judge at the Hague announced that

1:26:20.479 --> 1:26:24.960
<v Speaker 2>his sentence for war crimes would be upheld. I don't

1:26:24.960 --> 1:26:28.960
<v Speaker 2>speak Croatian, but news reports translated his last words in

1:26:29.000 --> 1:26:34.120
<v Speaker 2>that video as judges, Slobodon Proliac is not a war criminal.

1:26:34.680 --> 1:26:40.280
<v Speaker 2>With disdain, I reject your verdict, and then he knocks

1:26:40.320 --> 1:26:44.640
<v Speaker 2>back the vial of cyanide. We don't have to get

1:26:44.680 --> 1:26:48.360
<v Speaker 2>into the crimes against humanity that Slobodon Proliac was convicted

1:26:48.400 --> 1:26:52.880
<v Speaker 2>of by the International Criminal Tribunal for Former Yugoslavia. He

1:26:52.920 --> 1:26:57.639
<v Speaker 2>doesn't really factor in directly to our story at all,

1:26:57.760 --> 1:27:01.120
<v Speaker 2>but he did choose to defend himself without an attorney

1:27:01.720 --> 1:27:05.439
<v Speaker 2>during his war crimes trial, and as part of that effort,

1:27:06.000 --> 1:27:11.599
<v Speaker 2>he had a website dedicated to proving his innocence, and

1:27:11.640 --> 1:27:16.400
<v Speaker 2>that website is actually still online today. But the documents

1:27:16.400 --> 1:27:20.400
<v Speaker 2>that I found most useful in researching this story don't

1:27:20.439 --> 1:27:24.320
<v Speaker 2>appear to be accessible on the current version of the site.

1:27:24.920 --> 1:27:28.559
<v Speaker 2>So buried in this poorly organized series of files on

1:27:28.640 --> 1:27:32.960
<v Speaker 2>an archived version of this war criminal's website, I found

1:27:32.960 --> 1:27:38.960
<v Speaker 2>something terribly interesting. All of the existing reporting that I

1:27:38.960 --> 1:27:43.840
<v Speaker 2>could find about Alexander Ninelein, Stephen Rays, and Thomas Coonst

1:27:44.120 --> 1:27:48.040
<v Speaker 2>and their whereabouts in late nineteen ninety three seems to

1:27:48.120 --> 1:27:52.400
<v Speaker 2>rely on one of those documents, an arrest warrant signed

1:27:52.439 --> 1:27:57.120
<v Speaker 2>by their commanding officer, a war criminal named Maladin Nalatilic,

1:27:58.160 --> 1:28:01.240
<v Speaker 2>which I know I've not pronounced correctly, so we'll just

1:28:01.280 --> 1:28:06.920
<v Speaker 2>call him by his nickname Teuta. Everyone else did. When

1:28:06.920 --> 1:28:11.680
<v Speaker 2>those three German mercenaries deserted from Teuta's Ragtag Convicts Battalion

1:28:11.920 --> 1:28:15.200
<v Speaker 2>in the middle of December of nineteen ninety three, he

1:28:15.240 --> 1:28:22.320
<v Speaker 2>wrote a memo requesting arrest warrants. Translated, it reads, on

1:28:22.400 --> 1:28:26.240
<v Speaker 2>December sixteenth, nineteen ninety three, members of the Convicts Battalion

1:28:26.400 --> 1:28:30.679
<v Speaker 2>fled from Sierroki Brieg to an unknown destination after spending

1:28:30.880 --> 1:28:33.799
<v Speaker 2>three to four days in the unit after sealing weapons

1:28:33.800 --> 1:28:39.519
<v Speaker 2>and ammunition. The memo goes on to specify that, aside

1:28:39.520 --> 1:28:42.160
<v Speaker 2>from their names and the fact that they'd been briefly

1:28:42.160 --> 1:28:46.960
<v Speaker 2>affiliated with the unit. He had no additional information about

1:28:46.960 --> 1:28:51.120
<v Speaker 2>these three men. It's possible that a lot is lost

1:28:51.160 --> 1:28:54.479
<v Speaker 2>in translation here, but it kind of looks like he's

1:28:55.200 --> 1:28:58.840
<v Speaker 2>really going out of his way to distance himself from

1:28:58.880 --> 1:29:02.280
<v Speaker 2>these men, because he's very explicit that they were only

1:29:02.280 --> 1:29:04.719
<v Speaker 2>there for a few days and he doesn't know anything

1:29:04.720 --> 1:29:09.200
<v Speaker 2>about them. These guys are strangers to him, and I

1:29:09.200 --> 1:29:12.000
<v Speaker 2>guess there's no reason to doubt that. It's what every

1:29:12.000 --> 1:29:14.880
<v Speaker 2>write up about the incident says. And who knows, maybe

1:29:14.920 --> 1:29:18.280
<v Speaker 2>they got all the way there and they realized war

1:29:18.479 --> 1:29:21.920
<v Speaker 2>isn't very fun and they changed their minds. That makes

1:29:21.960 --> 1:29:25.439
<v Speaker 2>plenty of sense, right, But I think it would be

1:29:25.560 --> 1:29:29.520
<v Speaker 2>terribly naive to take a war criminal at his word

1:29:30.760 --> 1:29:36.680
<v Speaker 2>because he was lying in that chaotic document dump. On

1:29:36.840 --> 1:29:41.879
<v Speaker 2>Slowbodon Prolac's website, I found tuta's request for the issuance

1:29:41.880 --> 1:29:45.160
<v Speaker 2>of those arrest warrants, and I found the arrest warrants themselves,

1:29:46.400 --> 1:29:50.719
<v Speaker 2>and they were both signed by TUTA. I clicked through,

1:29:51.080 --> 1:29:54.760
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, maybe a hundred documents that mostly meant

1:29:54.800 --> 1:29:58.120
<v Speaker 2>absolutely nothing to me. I didn't really know what I

1:29:58.200 --> 1:30:01.320
<v Speaker 2>was looking for or what might even be there for.

1:30:01.360 --> 1:30:06.439
<v Speaker 2>Me to find. But I did find another document bearing

1:30:06.479 --> 1:30:10.160
<v Speaker 2>the signature of the commander of the Convex Battalion, and

1:30:10.200 --> 1:30:14.800
<v Speaker 2>this one was dated December second, nineteen ninety three, a

1:30:14.840 --> 1:30:18.559
<v Speaker 2>full two weeks before those men deserted. And it's a

1:30:18.600 --> 1:30:21.600
<v Speaker 2>list of soldiers under Tuta's command. And it appears to

1:30:21.600 --> 1:30:24.760
<v Speaker 2>have been written on a typewriter, and next to the

1:30:24.840 --> 1:30:27.000
<v Speaker 2>name of each soldier who had been paid for their

1:30:27.040 --> 1:30:29.960
<v Speaker 2>service in the month of November, he had drawn a

1:30:30.080 --> 1:30:35.760
<v Speaker 2>check mark in pencil. And there twenty four pages into

1:30:35.800 --> 1:30:42.080
<v Speaker 2>this list of names are Alexander Nydeline, Stephen Rays, and

1:30:42.160 --> 1:30:46.479
<v Speaker 2>Thomas Kunst. Nydeline and Coonst both have a check mark

1:30:46.560 --> 1:30:49.519
<v Speaker 2>next to their name, indicating that they'd been paid for

1:30:49.600 --> 1:30:54.879
<v Speaker 2>the month of November. Nydeline has over the years taken

1:30:54.920 --> 1:30:59.240
<v Speaker 2>issue with journalists who characterize him as a mercenary, often

1:30:59.360 --> 1:31:02.559
<v Speaker 2>arguing that he never actually got paid, so he can't

1:31:02.560 --> 1:31:06.599
<v Speaker 2>be called a mercenary. So this document at least offers

1:31:06.680 --> 1:31:12.240
<v Speaker 2>some possible rebuttal to that next to Stephen Ray's name,

1:31:12.320 --> 1:31:16.400
<v Speaker 2>though there isn't a check mark. Instead, there's a little

1:31:16.479 --> 1:31:19.720
<v Speaker 2>symbol that looks like it might be the letter D.

1:31:21.640 --> 1:31:24.439
<v Speaker 2>I think the soldiers who have died are the ones

1:31:24.479 --> 1:31:27.839
<v Speaker 2>with a little cross next to their name, and soldiers

1:31:27.840 --> 1:31:30.880
<v Speaker 2>who are in the hospital either have a B or

1:31:31.040 --> 1:31:36.120
<v Speaker 2>the word bolnika, which means hospital written out. And I

1:31:36.120 --> 1:31:45.280
<v Speaker 2>couldn't find any commonly used word for something like dead, deceased, killed, deserted, quit, captured,

1:31:45.320 --> 1:31:49.679
<v Speaker 2>any words like that. I couldn't find any that would

1:31:49.680 --> 1:31:56.040
<v Speaker 2>start with D in Croatian. But there are some words

1:31:56.080 --> 1:32:01.080
<v Speaker 2>and phrases related to the concept of author leave or

1:32:01.200 --> 1:32:06.800
<v Speaker 2>a permitted absence that do start with D in Croatian.

1:32:08.080 --> 1:32:10.920
<v Speaker 2>I'm just spitballing here. I have no idea what it

1:32:10.960 --> 1:32:14.120
<v Speaker 2>could mean. I don't know anything about running a mercenary

1:32:14.200 --> 1:32:16.800
<v Speaker 2>unit to do war crimes, and I don't speak Croatian.

1:32:17.120 --> 1:32:21.800
<v Speaker 2>I'm just guessing. But regardless of what these mysterious little

1:32:21.800 --> 1:32:27.040
<v Speaker 2>symbols mean, here's their commanding officer's signature on a document

1:32:27.560 --> 1:32:31.880
<v Speaker 2>listing their names two weeks before. He says they had

1:32:32.000 --> 1:32:36.280
<v Speaker 2>only just shown up in the last couple of days.

1:32:44.000 --> 1:32:47.800
<v Speaker 2>The obvious next question, then, is why would he lie

1:32:48.040 --> 1:32:51.960
<v Speaker 2>about how long they'd been with the unit. The short answer,

1:32:52.240 --> 1:32:55.639
<v Speaker 2>obviously is, I don't know. I don't think anybody knows.

1:32:57.000 --> 1:33:00.040
<v Speaker 2>But if I had to guess, I would say he

1:33:00.200 --> 1:33:07.280
<v Speaker 2>covering his ass. The convict's battalion was becoming increasingly unpopular

1:33:07.800 --> 1:33:12.320
<v Speaker 2>by late nineteen ninety three. It was again exactly what

1:33:12.360 --> 1:33:14.599
<v Speaker 2>it sounds like. It was made up of people who

1:33:14.640 --> 1:33:18.000
<v Speaker 2>had been in prison for violent crimes, as well as

1:33:18.040 --> 1:33:23.840
<v Speaker 2>foreign mercenaries who had volunteered to commit violent crimes, and

1:33:23.880 --> 1:33:26.920
<v Speaker 2>they were out of control. A letter sent to a

1:33:26.920 --> 1:33:30.679
<v Speaker 2>Croatian general, signed by another officer that same month, December

1:33:30.720 --> 1:33:35.400
<v Speaker 2>of nineteen ninety three, complained about Tuta's convicts running a muck.

1:33:36.400 --> 1:33:40.240
<v Speaker 2>They weren't just committing war crimes, but they were killing

1:33:40.240 --> 1:33:45.440
<v Speaker 2>and raping military and police personnel on their own side,

1:33:45.520 --> 1:33:49.920
<v Speaker 2>and their commanding officer was protecting them. So I can

1:33:49.960 --> 1:33:53.599
<v Speaker 2>only assume that he was trying to distance himself from

1:33:53.640 --> 1:33:58.280
<v Speaker 2>another embarrassing act of misconduct by this ragtag group of

1:33:58.439 --> 1:34:02.439
<v Speaker 2>foreign murderers when these three Germans deserted the unit with

1:34:02.520 --> 1:34:07.720
<v Speaker 2>a bunch of stolen guns and bombs. Other sources I

1:34:07.800 --> 1:34:10.720
<v Speaker 2>found writing about the actions of mercenaries in the Bosnian

1:34:10.760 --> 1:34:16.160
<v Speaker 2>War single out the German mercenaries in particular for their brutality.

1:34:17.760 --> 1:34:21.760
<v Speaker 2>Rob Kraut, a frequent contributor to soldier of Fortune magazine

1:34:22.280 --> 1:34:25.520
<v Speaker 2>wrote in his book Save the Last Bullet for Yourself

1:34:26.400 --> 1:34:28.880
<v Speaker 2>that the Germans he served with during the Bosnian War

1:34:29.160 --> 1:34:32.880
<v Speaker 2>had a terrible habit of cutting the ears off the

1:34:32.880 --> 1:34:38.759
<v Speaker 2>people they killed and keeping them as trophies. Austrian journalist

1:34:38.800 --> 1:34:44.160
<v Speaker 2>Christoph Santner co wrote egay yetst Ramboshpielen, which translates to

1:34:44.600 --> 1:34:48.799
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to play Rambo now with former mercenary. Wolfgang

1:34:48.920 --> 1:34:53.360
<v Speaker 2>Nighter writer and Nighter writer recounts seeing a German mercenary

1:34:53.680 --> 1:34:57.360
<v Speaker 2>hand a live grenade to a seven year old Muslim

1:34:57.400 --> 1:35:01.880
<v Speaker 2>boy in the Bosnian city of Mostar as a joke

1:35:02.479 --> 1:35:05.600
<v Speaker 2>of some sort. The mercenary told the boy it was

1:35:05.640 --> 1:35:09.880
<v Speaker 2>a toy, and the child was blown to pieces moments later.

1:35:11.880 --> 1:35:15.360
<v Speaker 2>There was no shortitch of violence in the Balkans in

1:35:15.360 --> 1:35:18.599
<v Speaker 2>the early nineties. There's plenty of blame to go around,

1:35:19.960 --> 1:35:22.679
<v Speaker 2>so it seems all the more remarkable that even in

1:35:22.720 --> 1:35:28.360
<v Speaker 2>this context, other actual war criminals, people sentenced to life

1:35:28.439 --> 1:35:32.160
<v Speaker 2>in prison at the Hague, people who were guns for hire,

1:35:33.080 --> 1:35:37.160
<v Speaker 2>they were looking at these German mercenaries and saying that's

1:35:37.200 --> 1:35:43.080
<v Speaker 2>a little bit too much. Now. I hesitate to build

1:35:43.080 --> 1:35:48.720
<v Speaker 2>a theory on the sand of speculation. But if that

1:35:48.760 --> 1:35:54.160
<v Speaker 2>little D next to Stephen Rays's name does happen to

1:35:54.200 --> 1:35:58.479
<v Speaker 2>mean that he was on leave in November, that does

1:35:58.600 --> 1:36:02.840
<v Speaker 2>line up with some other sort of hazy details about

1:36:02.840 --> 1:36:07.000
<v Speaker 2>this time period, because again we know that there was

1:36:07.040 --> 1:36:11.240
<v Speaker 2>an international effort to recruit mercenaries to travel to South Africa.

1:36:12.360 --> 1:36:14.679
<v Speaker 2>The two men from the beginning of this episode, Fox

1:36:14.680 --> 1:36:19.000
<v Speaker 2>Samang and Ralph Morajz were recruited by Ronald Douster personally

1:36:19.680 --> 1:36:22.439
<v Speaker 2>when he traveled to Bosnia in early nineteen ninety four,

1:36:23.880 --> 1:36:27.960
<v Speaker 2>and by all accounts, Nideline Rays and coonst were recruited

1:36:28.439 --> 1:36:34.479
<v Speaker 2>by Horsed Klens. But how because remember Horsed Glens had

1:36:34.520 --> 1:36:37.680
<v Speaker 2>been in South Africa for years at this point. He

1:36:37.840 --> 1:36:40.800
<v Speaker 2>escaped from custody in Namibia nineteen eighty nine and he

1:36:40.840 --> 1:36:44.320
<v Speaker 2>fled back to South Africa. He was arrested again in

1:36:44.360 --> 1:36:46.800
<v Speaker 2>the summer of nineteen ninety in connection with the Ordo

1:36:46.840 --> 1:36:50.479
<v Speaker 2>Boro folk bombings, and he didn't end up getting charged

1:36:50.520 --> 1:36:53.760
<v Speaker 2>with anything, but he spent a while in jail while

1:36:53.840 --> 1:36:57.120
<v Speaker 2>South African courts tried to figure out if they needed

1:36:57.160 --> 1:37:02.160
<v Speaker 2>to extradite him to Namibia. He was eventually probably in

1:37:02.400 --> 1:37:05.960
<v Speaker 2>late nineteen ninety two, released on bond depending a final

1:37:06.040 --> 1:37:12.439
<v Speaker 2>decision in the extradition matter, and then he disappeared. It

1:37:12.560 --> 1:37:16.720
<v Speaker 2>is possible, I guess that Glen's could have gone to

1:37:16.800 --> 1:37:20.160
<v Speaker 2>Bosnia at some point in nineteen ninety three, but I

1:37:20.160 --> 1:37:23.760
<v Speaker 2>don't think so, because there's a much more likely explanation.

1:37:27.800 --> 1:37:31.600
<v Speaker 4>Vanley fastings on to Uss not Nice and Sennoseallella that

1:37:32.320 --> 1:37:37.799
<v Speaker 4>there's some of Ervvre Moule's striker game at Gimenem. Dolphin

1:37:37.920 --> 1:37:39.479
<v Speaker 4>said Oscar Wolf involvement.

1:37:42.360 --> 1:37:46.160
<v Speaker 2>That probably didn't mean anything to you. I speak a

1:37:46.160 --> 1:37:49.080
<v Speaker 2>little German, but that guy's accent was a little tricky

1:37:49.120 --> 1:37:50.720
<v Speaker 2>for me. I had to ask a friend who was

1:37:50.800 --> 1:37:54.360
<v Speaker 2>fluent for some help with this one. That's a clip

1:37:54.400 --> 1:37:57.480
<v Speaker 2>from a segment that aired on a German TV news program,

1:37:58.439 --> 1:38:03.160
<v Speaker 2>and the man speaking is an unname hotel guest. Unnamed,

1:38:03.680 --> 1:38:08.360
<v Speaker 2>probably because the hotel in question was a cedy establishment

1:38:08.439 --> 1:38:12.479
<v Speaker 2>in Hamburg's red light district, and the man is recalling

1:38:12.520 --> 1:38:15.479
<v Speaker 2>for a reporter from Derspiegel an incident that happened in

1:38:15.600 --> 1:38:20.599
<v Speaker 2>late October nineteen ninety three. Stephen Rays was thrown out

1:38:20.600 --> 1:38:25.640
<v Speaker 2>of the hotel after some kind of loud argument and

1:38:25.920 --> 1:38:32.000
<v Speaker 2>just Stephen Rays. According to researchers from Germany's anti fascist Infoblot,

1:38:32.760 --> 1:38:36.400
<v Speaker 2>Klen's was also spotted in Hamburg in October of nineteen

1:38:36.479 --> 1:38:37.040
<v Speaker 2>ninety three.

1:38:38.439 --> 1:38:38.880
<v Speaker 7>And we know.

1:38:38.920 --> 1:38:41.960
<v Speaker 2>Stephen Rays did go back to Bosnia after he got

1:38:42.040 --> 1:38:46.520
<v Speaker 2>kicked out of that CD motel because he deserted in December.

1:38:48.160 --> 1:38:51.160
<v Speaker 2>So what it looks like to me is that Rays

1:38:51.240 --> 1:38:55.640
<v Speaker 2>made contact with Klen's in Hamburg in October, and then

1:38:55.640 --> 1:38:58.360
<v Speaker 2>he went back to Bosnia and told his friends about

1:38:58.360 --> 1:39:03.160
<v Speaker 2>this exciting new opportunity. All they had to do was

1:39:03.200 --> 1:39:06.040
<v Speaker 2>steal a bunch of guns and find a way to

1:39:06.040 --> 1:39:10.720
<v Speaker 2>get to England. What we do know for certain is

1:39:10.720 --> 1:39:14.760
<v Speaker 2>that all three of those mercenaries left Bosnia on December sixteenth,

1:39:15.360 --> 1:39:20.280
<v Speaker 2>nineteen ninety three, and on December thirtieth, they robbed a

1:39:20.360 --> 1:39:23.280
<v Speaker 2>post office in the German city of Lubec, making off

1:39:23.320 --> 1:39:28.799
<v Speaker 2>with around eighty five hundred Deutsche marks. I don't entirely

1:39:28.840 --> 1:39:32.479
<v Speaker 2>know how to sort out how much money that is.

1:39:34.200 --> 1:39:37.400
<v Speaker 2>In nineteen ninety three, one US dollar was equal to

1:39:37.439 --> 1:39:40.840
<v Speaker 2>about one point six Deutsche marks, so that would make

1:39:40.880 --> 1:39:44.439
<v Speaker 2>it a little over five thousand dollars, But those are

1:39:44.479 --> 1:39:48.280
<v Speaker 2>nineteen ninety three dollars, So I guess you could best

1:39:48.400 --> 1:39:52.719
<v Speaker 2>understand the actual value of this money is around ten

1:39:52.800 --> 1:39:58.920
<v Speaker 2>thousand US dollars today. Don't email me about math. And

1:39:59.000 --> 1:40:02.400
<v Speaker 2>with cash in hand, they traveled from Germany to Ramsgate,

1:40:03.160 --> 1:40:05.840
<v Speaker 2>that little seaside town in England, where members of the

1:40:05.920 --> 1:40:10.120
<v Speaker 2>League of Saint George drove them to the airport, and

1:40:10.280 --> 1:40:12.760
<v Speaker 2>just like the mercenaries that would follow them two months later,

1:40:13.640 --> 1:40:17.880
<v Speaker 2>they were given a name Monica Huggit would pick them

1:40:17.960 --> 1:40:20.240
<v Speaker 2>up from the airport when they got to South Africa.

1:40:23.960 --> 1:40:27.240
<v Speaker 2>They arrived on tourist visas in January of nineteen ninety four,

1:40:28.200 --> 1:40:31.920
<v Speaker 2>and Monica was there as promised to pick them up.

1:40:33.439 --> 1:40:38.200
<v Speaker 2>She sorted other paperwork and work permits and their mercenary assignments,

1:40:38.240 --> 1:40:42.400
<v Speaker 2>passing them off to Horst Cleans. They were assigned as

1:40:42.560 --> 1:40:46.800
<v Speaker 2>armed guards at Radio Pretoria, an illegal radio station that

1:40:46.880 --> 1:40:52.639
<v Speaker 2>broadcast African nationalist propaganda, and they participated in military drills

1:40:53.040 --> 1:40:59.280
<v Speaker 2>led by Willem Ratta, a former Rhodesian military officer. Everything

1:40:59.320 --> 1:41:03.919
<v Speaker 2>seemed to be going according to plan until March fourteenth,

1:41:04.080 --> 1:41:08.320
<v Speaker 2>nineteen ninety four. By the time the next round of

1:41:08.360 --> 1:41:11.720
<v Speaker 2>mercenaries arrived a few days later, there was no one

1:41:11.800 --> 1:41:16.480
<v Speaker 2>there at the airport to greet them. Thomas Konst was dead,

1:41:17.040 --> 1:41:22.639
<v Speaker 2>and Alexander Nydelin, Horst Cleans, Stephen Rays, and Monica Huggett

1:41:23.439 --> 1:41:27.880
<v Speaker 2>had all been arrested. I really do hate to leave

1:41:27.880 --> 1:41:31.800
<v Speaker 2>you hanging again. I promise I'm not dragging this story

1:41:31.840 --> 1:41:35.759
<v Speaker 2>out on purpose to torment you. I was a little

1:41:35.760 --> 1:41:39.720
<v Speaker 2>preoccupied this past week, and I'll be entirely otherwise occupied

1:41:39.800 --> 1:41:42.920
<v Speaker 2>during the week you're hearing this. If you're listening to

1:41:42.960 --> 1:41:45.320
<v Speaker 2>this on the day it comes out, I am almost

1:41:45.360 --> 1:41:50.439
<v Speaker 2>certainly sitting in court right now. In October of last year,

1:41:50.479 --> 1:41:53.840
<v Speaker 2>I did a couple of episodes about Virginia's burning objects law.

1:41:54.800 --> 1:41:57.600
<v Speaker 2>There was a pair of episodes on Barry Black, the

1:41:57.720 --> 1:42:02.360
<v Speaker 2>Pennsylvania clansman who challenged Virginia's cross burning statute and eventually

1:42:02.439 --> 1:42:05.680
<v Speaker 2>won his case at the Supreme Court. And there was

1:42:05.720 --> 1:42:08.000
<v Speaker 2>a third episode about a man who broke the law

1:42:08.120 --> 1:42:13.640
<v Speaker 2>Virginia wrote to replace that original crossburning ban. In that episode,

1:42:13.760 --> 1:42:15.880
<v Speaker 2>I talked a bit about the Nazi torch march that

1:42:15.960 --> 1:42:19.840
<v Speaker 2>took place here in my hometown of Charlottesville, Virginia on

1:42:19.880 --> 1:42:24.839
<v Speaker 2>August eleventh, twenty seventeen. The episode was about Tyler Diykes,

1:42:25.520 --> 1:42:27.400
<v Speaker 2>but he was just one of about a dozen men

1:42:27.439 --> 1:42:30.559
<v Speaker 2>who've been charged with burning an object with the intent

1:42:30.760 --> 1:42:37.479
<v Speaker 2>to intimidate. That's the law that replaced the old crossburning statute. Well,

1:42:37.560 --> 1:42:40.240
<v Speaker 2>this week, another one of those men is taking his

1:42:40.360 --> 1:42:43.559
<v Speaker 2>case to trial. So I lost a little bit of

1:42:43.560 --> 1:42:45.920
<v Speaker 2>time this week reviewing the facts so I can be

1:42:46.000 --> 1:42:49.000
<v Speaker 2>prepared to sit through the trial. And I'm going to

1:42:49.040 --> 1:42:51.920
<v Speaker 2>lose the entire next week sitting on a wooden bench

1:42:52.080 --> 1:42:56.840
<v Speaker 2>taking notes by hand. I would love to promise you

1:42:57.080 --> 1:42:59.559
<v Speaker 2>the final chapter of Monica Hugget's story is going to

1:42:59.560 --> 1:43:03.920
<v Speaker 2>come next week, but if I'm being realistic, it'll be

1:43:03.960 --> 1:43:07.720
<v Speaker 2>something else. I've been planning to do, sort of a

1:43:07.840 --> 1:43:11.120
<v Speaker 2>Q and A episode, so it might be that you

1:43:11.160 --> 1:43:14.440
<v Speaker 2>can submit questions for that on the Weird Little Guy's subreddit.

1:43:15.439 --> 1:43:19.080
<v Speaker 2>Just please don't send them to meet anywhere else, Like

1:43:19.120 --> 1:43:22.760
<v Speaker 2>on any other social media platform, I'll just lose them.

1:43:22.960 --> 1:43:25.439
<v Speaker 2>So if you have a question, please post it to

1:43:25.479 --> 1:43:29.439
<v Speaker 2>the subreddit, or if you absolutely for some reason cannot

1:43:29.439 --> 1:43:32.479
<v Speaker 2>do that, you can email it to me, but nowhere

1:43:32.479 --> 1:43:36.759
<v Speaker 2>else please, And depending on how things go during the trial,

1:43:37.160 --> 1:43:41.360
<v Speaker 2>I might have a minisode about the defendant Basilio's pistols.

1:43:42.720 --> 1:43:45.400
<v Speaker 2>If you're curious about Pistolis, I'll include a link in

1:43:45.439 --> 1:43:47.880
<v Speaker 2>the show notes to the pro publica article about his

1:43:47.960 --> 1:43:51.360
<v Speaker 2>discharge from the Marines after he was revealed to be

1:43:51.400 --> 1:43:56.000
<v Speaker 2>a member of Adam Laffin. So thank you for bearing

1:43:56.040 --> 1:43:58.280
<v Speaker 2>with me as I tell the story of Monica Stone

1:43:58.280 --> 1:44:02.519
<v Speaker 2>in these Strange Little Bunks. I've really been enjoying how

1:44:02.600 --> 1:44:05.400
<v Speaker 2>much digging this one has demanded of me. I just

1:44:05.479 --> 1:44:09.920
<v Speaker 2>need a little more time to read some very weird

1:44:10.680 --> 1:44:15.040
<v Speaker 2>racist prophecies before I'm ready to write the last chapter.

1:44:23.600 --> 1:44:26.040
<v Speaker 2>Weird Little Guys is a production of Cool Zone Media

1:44:26.080 --> 1:44:30.439
<v Speaker 2>and iHeartRadio. It's researched, written and recorded by me Molly Conger.

1:44:30.880 --> 1:44:34.600
<v Speaker 2>Our executive producers are Sophie Lichterman and Robert Evans. The

1:44:34.640 --> 1:44:38.080
<v Speaker 2>show is edited by the wildly talented Rory Gagan. The

1:44:38.080 --> 1:44:41.360
<v Speaker 2>theme music was composed by Brad Dickert. You can email

1:44:41.439 --> 1:44:44.520
<v Speaker 2>me at Weird Little Guys podcast at gmail dot com.

1:44:44.640 --> 1:44:47.800
<v Speaker 2>I will definitely read it, but I almost certainly will

1:44:47.840 --> 1:44:50.920
<v Speaker 2>not answer it. It's nothing personal. I don't answer any

1:44:50.920 --> 1:44:54.120
<v Speaker 2>of my emails. You can exchange conspiracy theories about the

1:44:54.120 --> 1:44:56.880
<v Speaker 2>show with other listeners on the Weird Little Guys subreddit,

1:44:57.800 --> 1:44:59.559
<v Speaker 2>just don't post anything that's going to make you one

1:44:59.600 --> 1:45:00.599
<v Speaker 2>of my weird Blue Guys