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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hello everyone, Molly here, Welcome back to the second of

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Speaker 2: four installments of the holiday reruns here on Weird Little Guys.

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Speaker 2: Since Christmas and New Year's Day are both Thursdays this year,

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Speaker 2: I was going to have to run two reruns in

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Speaker 2: a row. Instead of picking two random reruns, I'm using

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Speaker 2: this opportunity to run my favorite mini series of the year,

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Speaker 2: the eight episodes I wrote back in the spring about

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Speaker 2: the international networks of right wing extremists who were trying

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Speaker 2: to hold onto a part time in South Africa. The

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Speaker 2: first two episodes popped up on Your Feet on Tuesday,

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Speaker 2: making this episodes three and four of that series. The

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Speaker 2: episodes The White Wolf and White Guns for Hire originally

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Speaker 2: aired on March twentieth and March twenty seventh. For this

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Speaker 2: section of the story, I don't really have an update

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Speaker 2: or a correction, but I do have more clues, more

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Speaker 2: information that sort of hints at possibilities I just can't

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Speaker 2: prove yet. When I first started digging into Monica Huggett Stone,

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Speaker 2: there was this curious claim that she was a member

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Speaker 2: of the American ku Klux Klan. And when I was

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Speaker 2: writing about this back in the spring, I went to

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Speaker 2: great lengths to try to figure out exactly what that

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Speaker 2: might mean. I found some interesting history involving a South

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Speaker 2: African anti Semite who claimed to be running a clan

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Speaker 2: group in South Africa a few years before Monica would

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Speaker 2: have been involved, and that helped a little bit. Gave

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Speaker 2: me some context, but it didn't actually directly connect her

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Speaker 2: to anything. It didn't explain how she became pen pals

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Speaker 2: with an American clansmen in the late nineteen seventies when

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Speaker 2: she was helping those Italian terrorists build that bomb in Johannesburg.

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Speaker 2: But in the months since, someone was kind enough to

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Speaker 2: send me a newspaper clipping, one I wish i'd had then.

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Speaker 2: This was a recurring theme throughout the series. I really

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Speaker 2: had to get creative in finding source material. It isn't

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Speaker 2: easy to find newspaper archives in another language from another

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Speaker 2: continent from decades ago. I found more than I expected,

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Speaker 2: but there were always gaps in my timeline that I

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Speaker 2: had a good feeling could be filled in if I

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Speaker 2: just had more access to South African newspapers from the

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Speaker 2: time period. And this clipping is exactly the kind of

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Speaker 2: thing that would have saved me like twenty hours of frustration.

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Speaker 2: In nineteen eighty one, Monica's mother told a reporter that

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Speaker 2: Monica had been corresponding with an American pastor for years

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Speaker 2: and the pastor's name was one do you know? It

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Speaker 2: was Robert Miles by the mid nineteen seventies, which seems

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Speaker 2: like it may have been when they started writing. Miles

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Speaker 2: no longer publicly claimed clan membership, but he had been

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Speaker 2: a grand Dragon in the Klan in Michigan in the past,

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Speaker 2: and even after he transitioned away from publicly identifying as

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Speaker 2: a klansman, he was still hanging out with klansmen, plotting

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Speaker 2: to blow up school buses to prevent integration in a

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Speaker 2: very clan like fashion, and writing essays that were published

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Speaker 2: in the inter Clan newsletter. What I'm saying is he

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Speaker 2: was still involved with the clan. So even though his

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Speaker 2: primary focus was his Christian identity church, he could very

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Speaker 2: well have been Monica's American Clan contact, And if he wasn't,

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Speaker 2: he was almost certainly her introduction to whichever Klansman it

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Speaker 2: was who did mail her that bomb making manual. Notably,

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Speaker 2: both Robert Miles and Monica Huggett were connected to the

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Speaker 2: American Ku Klux Klan in the nineteen seventies, and they

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Speaker 2: both ended up moving on to the Aryan Nations. Miles

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Speaker 2: died in nineteen ninety two, but in the nineteen eighties

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Speaker 2: he was a regional leader in the Aryan Nations. And

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Speaker 2: you know where this whole story started. When Monica moved

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Speaker 2: to the United States, she was a leading member of

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Speaker 2: the Aryan Nations group operating out of Louisiana. So those

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Speaker 2: are interesting parallel tracks, and it gives me just enough

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Speaker 2: to go on that I'm definitely going to have to

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Speaker 2: keep digging. I mean, I have to write about Robert

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Speaker 2: Miles eventually. Anyway. On August tenth, nineteen eighty nine, around

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Speaker 2: nine thirty pm, a white sedan pulled up outside the

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Speaker 2: United Nations Transition Assistance Groups Straitive headquarters in aut Yo,

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Speaker 2: a town in northern Namibia. It had what appeared to

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Speaker 2: be UN issued license plates and the United Nations emblem

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Speaker 2: was painted on the side, so perhaps it didn't look

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Speaker 2: out of place there at first. Initial reports say witnesses

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Speaker 2: saw three men dressed in green camouflage uniforms. The UN

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Speaker 2: Transition Assistance Group had arrived in Namibia four months earlier,

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Speaker 2: authorized by UN Resolution four thirty five. The resolution had

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Speaker 2: actually been adopted over a decade earlier, but it took

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Speaker 2: that entire decade to get all parties to come to

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Speaker 2: the table. The Transition Assistance Group was there to ensure

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Speaker 2: the ceasefire was honored, that South African troops would withdraw

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Speaker 2: from Namibia, and that the upcoming election would be free

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Speaker 2: and fair. Those first four months had not been without incident,

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Speaker 2: but a ceasefire was re established Over the summer. The

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Speaker 2: South African military was withdrawing s planned and UN officials

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Speaker 2: were making progress on disarming and disbanding the citizen militias

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Speaker 2: paid by the South African government. If things continued on

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Speaker 2: this path, it was looking good for the November elections.

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Speaker 2: But not everyone was on board with UN Resolution four

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Speaker 2: thirty five. One small group in particular, calling itself Axi

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Speaker 2: Kontra four three five Action against four thirty five, did

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Speaker 2: just what the name implies. They took action. When those

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Speaker 2: men in green camos stepped out of their car outside

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Speaker 2: the UN offices in Autyo that night, they opened fire

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Speaker 2: with automatic weapons hand grenades caused extensive damage to the buildings.

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Speaker 2: Both the administrative offices and the sleeping quarters. A security

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Speaker 2: guard named Michael Hoseg was killed in the attack, but

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Speaker 2: the men fled into the night without finishing the mission.

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Speaker 2: The entire cell was arrested fairly quickly, and authorities found

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Speaker 2: a massive arsenal of guns and explosives the group planned

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Speaker 2: to use in future attacks on United Nations targets with

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Speaker 2: the goal of stopping the upcoming elections. And those men

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Speaker 2: were in custody in November when the elections were held,

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Speaker 2: but they didn't stay there. They escaped. They'd failed to

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Speaker 2: prevent Namibian independence, but now the fight was in South Africa,

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Speaker 2: and they would do everything in their power to prevent

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Speaker 2: the end of apartheime. I'm Molly Conger, and this is

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Speaker 2: where the were guides. This is still the story of

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Speaker 2: Monica hugget'st the elderly South African woman who was living

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Speaker 2: in Mandeville, Louisiana, when she organized a series of nationwide

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Speaker 2: Nazi rallies in twenty twelve. But she isn't in this

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Speaker 2: part of the story because I can't tell you about

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Speaker 2: the international network of mercenaries she was organizing in nineteen

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Speaker 2: ninety four without telling you a little bit more about

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Speaker 2: some of those men, who they were and what they

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Speaker 2: were up to in the years leading up to that

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Speaker 2: deadly shootout with the police on the eve of the

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Speaker 2: South African elections. I know I don't have to make

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Speaker 2: excuses for this meandering narrative. It's my story and I'll

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Speaker 2: tell it the only way I know how. I never

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Speaker 2: know where we're going when I start putting my notes together,

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Speaker 2: and I really can't help but chase down this seemingly

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Speaker 2: infinite number of surprisingly deep rabbit holes. And I'm so

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Speaker 2: fascinated by this international network. It's come up a bit

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Speaker 2: in other stories. Dennis Mahon and Tom Metzger had close

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Speaker 2: ties with Heritage Front in Canada. In the early nineties,

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Speaker 2: Denis Mayhon flew to Germany to show German Neo Nazis

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Speaker 2: a good old fashioned American ku Klux clan cross burning,

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Speaker 2: and he gave fiery speeches stoking the flames of the

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Speaker 2: anti immigrant riots that were exploding across Germany at the time.

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Speaker 2: The week before Dennis started making that bomb that he

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Speaker 2: went to prison for, he'd been hanging out with an

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Speaker 2: Ulster Unionist who'd carried out bombings in Northern Ireland during

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Speaker 2: the troubles, British Holocaust denied David Irving traveled regularly to

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Speaker 2: the United States to network with American white supremacists. Frank

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Speaker 2: Sweeney joined the American Nazi Party in New Jersey as

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Speaker 2: a teenager and later joined the Rhodesian Army as a mercenary.

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Speaker 2: Members of American white supremacist groups like the Base Adam

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Speaker 2: Waffen and the Rise Above movement and its spinoff active clubs,

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Speaker 2: have a particular fondness for traveling to Ukraine to fight

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Speaker 2: with far right groups like the azof Battalion. Patriot Front.

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Speaker 2: Flags have popped up at neo Nazi marches and Poland,

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Speaker 2: and its members have met with leaders of foreign fascist

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Speaker 2: groups like the Nordic Resistance Movement in Sweden and Cossa

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Speaker 2: Pound in Italy. One of the young men arrested in

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Speaker 2: connection with the Terogram Collective was taken into custody at

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Speaker 2: the airport before he could board a flight to Ukraine

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Speaker 2: to join the Russian Volunteer Corps. The fascists, racists, and

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Speaker 2: anti Semites of the world are obsessed with borders, but

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Speaker 2: they don't seem to mind crossing them, So that's what

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Speaker 2: we're exploring. Here, and we'll find Monica again in the

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Speaker 2: next chapter of this story when she does a bit

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Speaker 2: of border crossing of her own, but that's not until

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Speaker 2: nineteen ninety four, and right now it's nineteen eighty nine.

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Speaker 2: In nineteen eighty nine, South Africa was still five years

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Speaker 2: away from ending apartheid, five years away from holding their

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Speaker 2: first election with universal suffrage, five years away from electing

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Speaker 2: Nelson Mandela as their first post of Parkment high president.

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Speaker 2: In nineteen eighty nine, Nelson Mandela was still in prison,

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Speaker 2: where he'd been since nineteen sixty two. But in nineteen

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Speaker 2: eighty nine, one of South Africa's neighbors was taking the

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Speaker 2: leap into multi racial democracy. Well. Whether or not South

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Speaker 2: Africa considered Namibia to be a neighboring country or a

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Speaker 2: country at all, depends on who you ask. The present

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Speaker 2: day nation of Namibia had been a German colony from

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Speaker 2: eighteen eighty four until nineteen fifteen. During World War One,

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Speaker 2: when everyone was a little preoccupied elsewhere, South Africa captured

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Speaker 2: the colony known as South West Africa. In nineteen sixty six,

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Speaker 2: the United Nations General Assembly passed a resolution declaring that

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Speaker 2: South Africa no longer had a right to the territory,

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Speaker 2: but South Africa continued illegally occupying the area that the

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Speaker 2: United Nations now recognized as Namibia. The conflict lasted over

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Speaker 2: two decades. The South African Border War wasn't just about

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Speaker 2: South Africa's desire to extend apartheid into this colonial territory.

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Speaker 2: It was inextricably intertwined with other conflicts in the region,

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Speaker 2: things like the Angle and Civil War. It was a

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Speaker 2: modern consequence of the nineteenth century Scramble for Africa. It

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Speaker 2: was the unraveling of a century of colonialism. It was

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Speaker 2: fueled by Cold War anxiety about communist guerrilla forces and

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Speaker 2: Soviet influence. And it was about white anxiety. If Black

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Speaker 2: Africans were allowed to participate in government, if they were,

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Speaker 2: god forbid, allowed to rule their own nations, what would

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Speaker 2: they do with that power. The whole world got in

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Speaker 2: on the action, both officially, with major power sending material

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Speaker 2: support to their preferred parties and none officially, with independent

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Speaker 2: mercenaries and shadowy state sponsored operations popping up all over

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Speaker 2: Sub Saharan Africa. But by nineteen eighty nine it was

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Speaker 2: finally time. The border war was over and Namibia was

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Speaker 2: going to have free and fair elections in November. In

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Speaker 2: April of that year, peacekeeping forces from the United Nations

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Speaker 2: Transition Assistance Group arrived to oversee the process. Namibia was

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Speaker 2: going to be an independent nation, one without apartheid, and

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Speaker 2: this was a frightening prospect for those white South Africans

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Speaker 2: trying desperately to hold onto power in an increasingly unsustainable

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Speaker 2: form of government. Now, this next part might sound like

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Speaker 2: a conspiracy theory. I tried to tread waters like this

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Speaker 2: with immense care. I nearly drove myself to madness trying

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Speaker 2: to thread the needle of fact, fiction and question marks.

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Speaker 2: When I talked about the Oklahoma City bombing a while back,

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Speaker 2: and when I started poking around this particular history, I'll

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Speaker 2: admit I didn't have a lot of context. I don't

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Speaker 2: know the landscape here, so sorting fact from speculation and

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Speaker 2: sifting out the lies is a tricky prospect. And at

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Speaker 2: first I completely dismissed the idea that these neo Nazi

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Speaker 2: terrorists could have been acting on government orders. That's Tinfoil

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Speaker 2: had territory, right. I saw the idea heavily insinuated in

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Speaker 2: some reporting from the time period. An article published in

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Speaker 2: nineteen ninety, in an issue of Frei Vigblad, a South

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Speaker 2: African newspaper with an anti apartheid stance, opened with this

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Speaker 2: fairly explosive allegation. They are fugitives accused of murder. They

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Speaker 2: come from South Africa, Britain, Namibia and Zimbabwe. They have

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Speaker 2: one common characteristic. They left a trail of destruction, death

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Speaker 2: and bloodshed in Southern Africa over the past decade, but

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Speaker 2: cannot be prosecuted. They are among the most wanted men

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Speaker 2: in our neighboring states, but enjoy the protection of the

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Speaker 2: South African government because they have worked or still work

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Speaker 2: for the security forces. But that's not proof, right. Think

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Speaker 2: about how often you see similar sentiments expressed when it

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Speaker 2: comes to American far right groups. Allegations that this group

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Speaker 2: or that one or whichever prominent white supremacist leader hasn't

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Speaker 2: been prosecuted because they're being protected by the state. And

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Speaker 2: that's always a possibility, sure, but that doesn't mean it's true.

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Speaker 2: But some of those men would themselves later claim that

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Speaker 2: they couldn't be prosecuted for murders and bombings because they'd

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Speaker 2: been acting on government orders, And again that's not proof.

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Speaker 2: I've seen that before too. Sometimes people will say anything

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Speaker 2: to avoid responsibility, and that doesn't necessarily mean it's true.

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Speaker 2: I'd been chugging along, accumulating sources and taking my notes,

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Speaker 2: translating old newspapers. I subscribed to several South African genealogical databases,

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Speaker 2: getting into the weeds here, all under the assumption that

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Speaker 2: there wasn't really a need to explore that angle. It

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Speaker 2: could be true, but it wasn't something I'd be able

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Speaker 2: to substantiate, And it's the kind of thing I'm not

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Speaker 2: comfortable exploring without something to hold on to. I don't

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Speaker 2: want to abuse your trust by speculating wildly and getting

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Speaker 2: reckless with the facts. But then I realized this is

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Speaker 2: a very unusual set of circumstances. Normally, a government would

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Speaker 2: never admit to state sponsored terrorism. They all do it,

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Speaker 2: but nobody admits it, and if you ever do prove it,

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Speaker 2: it's nothing short of a miracle. You need leaked documents

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Speaker 2: and deathbed confessions. But the South Africa of nineteen ninety

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Speaker 2: five wasn't really the same South Africa that had existed

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Speaker 2: until nineteen ninety four. This government wasn't admitting to its

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Speaker 2: own crimes the Truth and Reconciliation Commission was an unusually

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Speaker 2: transparent look at the nation's past, and they admitted it.

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Speaker 2: There is an entire chapter of the Truth and Reconciliation

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Speaker 2: Commission final report called secret State Funding. And according to

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Speaker 2: the report, Oxi Coontra four thirty five, the group behind

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Speaker 2: the attack at the UN offices in Autyo in nineteen

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Speaker 2: eighty nine, is believed to have been entirely a creation

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Speaker 2: of funded by the South African government. At least one

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Speaker 2: of the men involved was later confirmed to have been

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Speaker 2: an operative of the South African Civil Cooperation Bureau, an

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Speaker 2: odd name for what was essentially government sponsored death squads.

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Speaker 2: And I tell you that now so you can draw

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Speaker 2: your own conclusions later in the story when things get

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Speaker 2: a little murkier. So just keep that in the back

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Speaker 2: of your mind for now. It wasn't long after the

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Speaker 2: attack on Autio that members of Oxi Contra for thirty

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Speaker 2: five started getting arrested. Although the group's name disappears from

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Speaker 2: the conversation pretty quickly, the men who carried out that

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Speaker 2: attack were members of other groups too. Specifically, they were

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Speaker 2: all members of the Africaner Resistance movement. The AWB led

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Speaker 2: by Eugene terre Blanche. The first to be arrested were

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Speaker 2: two South African citizens, Arthur Archer and Craig Barker, and

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Speaker 2: a German mercenary named Horst Clens. South Africans Darrell stopped

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Speaker 2: Forth and Leonard Winendhal were arrested soon after. By October

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Speaker 2: of nineteen eighty nine, two months after the attack, and

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Speaker 2: out Yo five men had been arrested. Charges against Craig

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Speaker 2: Barker were dropped early on, and the charges against Arthur

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Speaker 2: Archer were dropped after he agreed to cooperate, And so

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Speaker 2: in December of nineteen eighty nine, it's just three Nandhl

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Speaker 2: Cleans and stop Foth were officially charged with murder in

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Speaker 2: a Namibian court. The courthouse was a three hour drive

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Speaker 2: from the prison where the men were being held. After

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Speaker 2: the hearing, Leonard Venadal asked to use the bathroom before

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Speaker 2: they were loaded back into the transport van to return

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Speaker 2: to their cells. And this is one of those moments

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Speaker 2: where it's useful to bear in mind that the Truth

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Speaker 2: and Reconciliation Commission names Leonard Venandal as a known operative

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Speaker 2: of the Civil Cooperation Bureau, those government sponsored death squads

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Speaker 2: and he's named as an operative of the CCB, specifically

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Speaker 2: in connection with these events in Namibia. So with that

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Speaker 2: in mind, Leonard Venandal goes to the bathroom of the

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Speaker 2: courthouse and he somehow knows to take the top off

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Speaker 2: the tank of a particular toilet. Someone had left him

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Speaker 2: a gift in there, a pistol, and he takes the

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Speaker 2: gun out of the toilet and he tucks it away

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Speaker 2: and allows himself to be placed back in the van.

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Speaker 2: About three quarters the way through the drive back to

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Speaker 2: the jail, somewhere in the middle of nowhere, the men

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Speaker 2: insisted that they just couldn't hold it any longer. They

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Speaker 2: needed to stop to go to the bathroom, and the

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Speaker 2: two Namibian police officers agreed. They pulled over and they

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Speaker 2: let their three prisoners out to pee on the side

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Speaker 2: of the road, and then suddenly another vehicle appeared. It

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Speaker 2: stopped and two men got out, and Vinadel produced the

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Speaker 2: pistol from his hiding place, and the two officers were

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Speaker 2: overpowered by the three prisoners and their two accomplices. Constable

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Speaker 2: Ricardo van Wick was shot on the stomach and later died.

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Speaker 2: The surviving officer was forced at gunpoint into the back

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Speaker 2: of the van, which the prisoners drove half an hour

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Speaker 2: off the main road before abandoning it. And then they disappeared,

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Speaker 2: and the vehicle driven by their accomplices, and they really

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Speaker 2: did disappear. Darrel stopped Forth, Leonard Fiennandal, and Horse Glens

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Speaker 2: had murdered a UN security guard and an Amibian police officer.

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Speaker 2: They were supposed to have gone on trial in Namibia,

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Speaker 2: but they vanished for a little while anyway. Just a

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Speaker 2: few short months later, both Leonard Fiennindal and Darrel Stopforth

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Speaker 2: came out of hiding. They were home in South Africa,

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Speaker 2: and South Africa had no extradition treaty with the newly

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Speaker 2: independent nation of Namibia. There were warrants for their arrest there,

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Speaker 2: but there was nothing anyone could really do. Nadal said

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Speaker 2: in a public statement a few months after his escape,

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Speaker 2: I have now returned to my family and I'm going

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Speaker 2: to devote myself full time to the cause as the

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Speaker 2: revolution is here. A photo of Venandal taken around that

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Speaker 2: time shows him wearing his AWB uniform and holding his

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Speaker 2: newborn son. He'd named the boy Daryl, presumably to honor

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Speaker 2: Darrel stop Forth, the man he'd just committed two murders

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Speaker 2: with and there's an odd thing I keep seeing these

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Speaker 2: guys do as I'm researching this story. They have this

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Speaker 2: strange fondness for giving interviews when they're supposed to be

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Speaker 2: in hiding on the run from the law. When it

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Speaker 2: was announced in September of nineteen eighty nine, a month

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Speaker 2: after the attack and out YO that Leonard Venadal had

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Speaker 2: been arrested, a reporter in South Africa came forward with

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Speaker 2: a pretty wild story. While Venondal had been on the run,

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Speaker 2: he'd taken the time to sit down for a two

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Speaker 2: hour interview with a reporter, and in that interview he

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Speaker 2: spoke openly about his membership in the AWB. That fact

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Speaker 2: alone wasn't really a secret. He was Eugene Tablanche's personal bodyguard,

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Speaker 2: and he was the leader of the Johannesburg branch of

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Speaker 2: the group. But he also claimed there had been a

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Speaker 2: split within Aquala, the militant arm of AWB, with some

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Speaker 2: members openly declaring their willingness and intent to die for

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Speaker 2: the cause, forming a sort of Kamakazi unit that planned

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Speaker 2: to carry out high profile assassinations. He also showed the

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Speaker 2: reporter a small circular placard of sorts with a picture

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Speaker 2: of a wolf. The reporter Yu hung Kus just looked

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Speaker 2: at it with disbelief, and he said, there's no such

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Speaker 2: thing as the White Wolves, and vin ad all smiled

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Speaker 2: at him and replied, believe me, they exist. The White

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Speaker 2: Wolves probably didn't exist, not really, not then anyway, not

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Speaker 2: in any way that really means anything. I guess they

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Speaker 2: kind of did, in the sense that if someone were

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Speaker 2: to carry out a series of bombings and then call

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Speaker 2: the newspaper to say that the White Wolves did it,

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Speaker 2: you sort of retroactively created the idea of a group

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Speaker 2: that could be imagined to exist, because Venadel would later

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00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:03,679
Speaker 2: be connect to an attempt to do just that. But

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00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:08,159
Speaker 2: by most accounts, the White Wolves wasn't a terrorist organization

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Speaker 2: that actually existed. But in September of nineteen eighty nine,

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Speaker 2: as he's sitting there with this reporter from the Sunday Times,

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Speaker 2: everyone in South Africa had heard of the White Wolf,

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Speaker 2: at least in the singular. Earlier that year, a former

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Speaker 2: policeman who called himself the White Wolf had been sentenced

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Speaker 2: to death. He was a former policeman because he'd been

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Speaker 2: dismissed a year earlier. After opposing for a photo holding

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Speaker 2: the severed head of a black man who had died

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00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:45,200
Speaker 2: in a gruesome car accident. He tried to submit the

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00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:49,360
Speaker 2: photo for publication in a police magazine, but they declined

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Speaker 2: to publish it. He'd joined a to w B at

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Speaker 2: just sixteen, with his father's support and encouragement. He'd been

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Speaker 2: sentenced to die for something he did. November of nineteen

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Speaker 2: eighty eight, one afternoon, a twenty three year old named

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00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:09,199
Speaker 2: Baron Stredam put on his custom belt buckle engraved with

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Speaker 2: the words white wolf and Afrikaans. He barked his car

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Speaker 2: near a busy city square in downtown Pretoria, and he

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Speaker 2: got out, and he started walking, and then he started shooting.

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Speaker 2: On the day of the massacre, he just walked for

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Speaker 2: several blocks, just shooting black people at random. He murdered

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Speaker 2: eight people and wounded sixteen others, and every survivor says

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00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 2: the same thing. He smiled the entire time. Bradley Stein

377
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 2: was just seventeen years old that day and he was

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00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 2: on his way home from rugby practice when he saw Stridum.

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Speaker 2: He didn't understand at first what he was looking at.

380
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Speaker 2: This man with a gun must be a police officer.

381
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Speaker 2: He must be trying to catch a bad guy. But

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00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:05,399
Speaker 2: then he saw Stridem walk up to an old woman

383
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:09,199
Speaker 2: carrying groceries, and without saying a word, Stritem shot her

384
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Speaker 2: in the head. At that moment, a black teenager called

385
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 2: out to stein beckoning him over to the bench he

386
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:19,199
Speaker 2: was hiding behind, and the two teens hid behind the

387
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 2: bench together, but Stridum found them. He shot the black boy.

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Speaker 2: As Steyne, who's white, cradled this bleeding stranger in his lap.

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Speaker 2: He looked up at Stridam and asked him why.

390
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 3: Then I turned up to him and I said, who

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Speaker 3: com duniate that? Why are you doing this? And he said,

392
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 3: agduned it for it two cooms for we sight africananners,

393
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:49,359
Speaker 3: which means I'm doing this for the future of white

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Speaker 3: South Africans.

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00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 2: Stridum never fired at a white person. The shooting only

396
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:02,440
Speaker 2: stopped when a black taxi driver named Simon Mucondeley tapped

397
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 2: Stritum on the shoulder while he was reloading. He must

398
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:08,879
Speaker 2: have caught the killer off guard because as Stridem turned round,

399
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 2: Mucondeley was able to grab the gun out of his hands.

400
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 2: As I was reading about Stridem's murders. It felt so

401
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:21,639
Speaker 2: familiar to me. I've read accounts of a lot of

402
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:25,720
Speaker 2: mass shootings. I've seen videos I wish I could forget.

403
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 2: I've wasted countless hours reading manifestos, and there are plenty

404
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:35,399
Speaker 2: of similarities between white supremacist mass shootings. There are a

405
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 2: lot of common denominators when it comes to a young

406
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:42,159
Speaker 2: white man who carries out a racist mass shooting. But

407
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:50,639
Speaker 2: this felt so terribly, eerily familiar to me. It was inescapable.

408
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 2: It felt just like the Charleston church shooting. It felt

409
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 2: like Dylan Rufe. And back in twenty fifteen, several South

410
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:05,639
Speaker 2: Africa journalists covering that story that American shooting referred to

411
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:09,560
Speaker 2: Dylan Rufe as America's white Wolf. So I guess I'm

412
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 2: not alone in that feeling. We talked briefly last week

413
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:17,680
Speaker 2: about the apartheid era South African flag patch in photos

414
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,679
Speaker 2: of roof taken shortly before he murdered nine people at

415
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:25,439
Speaker 2: the Emmanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in twenty fifteen, So

416
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:29,679
Speaker 2: we know he had a fondness for apartheid. But I

417
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:34,119
Speaker 2: wonder if he was familiar with the white wolf. So

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00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 2: in Venadel is sitting there with this reporter showing him

419
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 2: this little picture of a wolf. This is what he's

420
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 2: talking about. He's telling the reporter that he's a member

421
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 2: of this extremely militant, violent arm of the AWB, that

422
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 2: they're planning to get a race war going before Christmas,

423
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,160
Speaker 2: and he really wants the paper to run a story

424
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 2: that will convince people that there are hundreds more Barren

425
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 2: Stritums out there lying in wait. And the reason the

426
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 2: reporter didn't believe him is because it had been discussed

427
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 2: extensively during Stritem's trial just a few months earlier. There

428
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 2: was no reason to believe any actual group called the

429
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 2: White Wolves existed. He was a member of AWB, that

430
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:22,960
Speaker 2: was fairly certain, but when it came to the White Wolves,

431
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 2: it appeared to just be a pack of one. Fienandal

432
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 2: was maybe just planting seeds of propaganda. He was trying

433
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 2: to capitalize on this intense fear and trauma surrounding Stritem's

434
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 2: murders by convincing people it could happen again at any time.

435
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 2: But Leonard Fiennindal had been telling the truth about at

436
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 2: least one thing when he spoke to that reporter before

437
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 2: his arrest, there had been some splintering within the African

438
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 2: or Resistance movement, members of AWB had started forming increasingly

439
00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 2: violent breakaway groups, groups like the Orde van de Dude,

440
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 2: which translates to the Order of Death, and the Order

441
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 2: Borofolk the Order of the Boer People. And that name

442
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 2: might sound familiar. A violent fascist group calling itself the

443
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 2: Order we heard that one before its founder would later

444
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 2: say that he'd never actually heard of Robert J. Matthews,

445
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 2: the American neo Nazi who founded a group called The

446
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 2: Order in nineteen eighty three. It seems both men arrived

447
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 2: at the name independently, but for the exact same reason.

448
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 2: It was the name of the fictional white supremacist organization

449
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 2: in William Luther Pierce's novel The Turner Diaries. And you

450
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 2: might remember the name of the man who founded the

451
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 2: South African version of the Order. Remember last week we

452
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 2: were talking about the trial of Massimo Bolo and Fabio Miriello,

453
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 2: the Italian fascist convicted of the vit Commando bombings in

454
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty. As the two men were led into the

455
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 2: court room on the first day of their trial, one

456
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 2: man and the gallery stood up and applauded for the bombers,

457
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 2: and that man was Pritorious City councilor Pete Rudolph, And

458
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 2: so by this point in our timeline, Rudolph is a

459
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 2: high ranking member of the africaner resistance movement the AWB,

460
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 2: and Pete Rudolph maintains to this day that he founded

461
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 2: the Order in nineteen eighty nine with the knowledge and

462
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 2: blessing of AWB's leader, Eugene taire Blanche, specifically so that

463
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:34,280
Speaker 2: AWB members could engage in more violent resistance without risking

464
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 2: AWB itself being sanctioned or banned. And if that's true,

465
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 2: it's actually quite similar in that respect to the group

466
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 2: of the same name in the United States. When Robert

467
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:49,959
Speaker 2: Matthews founded the Order, he did so with the knowledge

468
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 2: and blessing of William Luther Pierce, announcing the formation of

469
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 2: the group in a speech at the annual meeting of

470
00:31:55,680 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 2: Pierce's National Alliance. And National Alliance benefited Ida theologically and

471
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 2: financially from the Order's crimes, but they had the plausible

472
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 2: deniability of having no formal affiliation with the group. Just

473
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 2: like Pierce a National Alliance, Terre Blanche and the AWB

474
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 2: could sit back and enjoy the political benefit of their

475
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 2: orders act of terror without the risk of appearing to

476
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:27,560
Speaker 2: have authorized them. The Order Boro Folk was definitely founded

477
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 2: and led by Pete Rudolph, but press clippings over the

478
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 2: years occasionally name other men as the group's leader. At

479
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 2: one point, Nick Stridem, the father of mass murderer Baronstretem,

480
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 2: is quoted as the head of the Order. In nineteen

481
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 2: ninety four, a South African TV news program aired an

482
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:49,280
Speaker 2: interview with a man claiming to be the leader of

483
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 2: the Order. I was perhaps as surprised as Pete Rudolph

484
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 2: was to see Leonard Wienendahl staring back at me from

485
00:32:56,720 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 2: the screen. Rudolph would later tell them Truth and Reconciliation

486
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:05,640
Speaker 2: Commission that Venandal had appointed himself as chief of staff

487
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 2: of the Order without his permission, and that such a

488
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 2: position didn't even exist. And he called Venandal quote a

489
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 2: man fond of publicity with strong national socialist inclinations. And

490
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 2: he scoffed at the very idea that he would have

491
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 2: let Venondal lead anything, disparagingly referring to Venondal's habit of

492
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 2: appearing in public in a khaki uniform, saying I despise

493
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 2: a khaki uniform. Let me tell you, because khaki is

494
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 2: the color of the British. But I guess the fashion

495
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 2: police unit of the Nazi terror squad is really neither

496
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 2: here nor there. No one denies Vnondal was a member

497
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 2: of the Order. In fact, when Venondal, Cleans and stop

498
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 2: Forth had escaped from custody in Namibia, it had been

499
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:56,720
Speaker 2: the Order who picked them up on the side of

500
00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 2: the road there next to the still bleeding policeman. The

501
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 2: man driving their getaway car was Rudolph's chief deputy, Hank Bradenhan.

502
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 2: Rudolph claims the Order was formally established in October of

503
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:14,319
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty nine, but they didn't announce their presence to

504
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:17,800
Speaker 2: the world until February of nineteen ninety, when a small

505
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 2: group of quote suspicious looking white men vandalized the British

506
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 2: embassy in Pretoria. Witnesses saw them walk up to the

507
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 2: embassy gates and spray paint in Afrikaans. The struggle begins

508
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:38,840
Speaker 2: and they signed the statement order. Borofolk police looked at

509
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 2: the graffiti and said they'd never heard of the group.

510
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 2: One member spoke anonymously with the press and said they

511
00:34:46,000 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 2: were allied with the White Wolves. In April of nineteen ninety,

512
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 2: the Order Boro folk took its first big step. Pete

513
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 2: Rudolph organized and led a raid on a South African

514
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 2: Air Force base. Carried out in collaboration with three young

515
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 2: A Tobb sympathizers within the Air Force. Order members, including

516
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 2: Leonard Wienendahl, stole a busload of guns and ammunition from

517
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:26,839
Speaker 2: the South African Defense Force. Rudolph called the Pretoria News

518
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:28,760
Speaker 2: while on the run to take credit for the heist,

519
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 2: saying it was time for war. Quote. I have now

520
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:35,840
Speaker 2: crossed the rubicon. The boar now have a chance to

521
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:38,840
Speaker 2: arm themselves. We are now going for the a n

522
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 2: c's throat. And keep those guns in the back of

523
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:48,279
Speaker 2: your mind too, I'll remind you, but one of those

524
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:54,319
Speaker 2: guns shows back up. In June, Rudolph recorded a half

525
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 2: hour long video declaring war against the government, and he

526
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:01,279
Speaker 2: mailed copies to several New Use outlets as well as

527
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 2: other right wing groups. I could only find a short

528
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 2: clip of it. I don't know why it looked so

529
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:10,279
Speaker 2: hard for the full video. It wouldn't have done me

530
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 2: any good. It's all in Afrikaans, but still frames from

531
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:17,319
Speaker 2: the video show Rudolph sitting at a desk flanked by

532
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:21,920
Speaker 2: masked men carrying rifles they'd stolen from the military, and

533
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 2: the message was part press release, part warning, part call

534
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:30,480
Speaker 2: to action. He's speaking to a variety of audiences here

535
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 2: and for his fellow African or nationalists. His message was

536
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:38,719
Speaker 2: pretty simple. It's not time to talk anymore and it

537
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:41,799
Speaker 2: is quote better to die in glory than to live

538
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 2: in disgrace. Within days of this video's release, the bombs

539
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 2: started going off. In late June and early July of

540
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:59,400
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety, bombs went off every night. A bomb went

541
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,760
Speaker 2: off on a bust terminal in Johannesburg injuring nearly thirty people.

542
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 2: Bombs went off at both the home and business belonging

543
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 2: to Clive Gilbert, a Johannesburg City councilor who was both

544
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:13,439
Speaker 2: Jewish and a member of the Democratic Party. That same week,

545
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 2: a synagogue in Johannesburg was bombed and defaced with swastika's

546
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:20,479
Speaker 2: and pro apartheid slogans. The office of the National Union

547
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 2: of Mine Workers, a radical black labour organization, was destroyed

548
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:27,799
Speaker 2: by a bomb that went off overnight. A bomb blew

549
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:30,160
Speaker 2: out the windows of the offices of the anti apartheid

550
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 2: weekly newspaper Freivigblad, and the homes and offices of several

551
00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 2: members of the ruling National Party were targeted as well,

552
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:43,319
Speaker 2: accompanied by warnings that President de Clerk must stop all

553
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 2: efforts to adopt moderate reforms. And then the phone calls came.

554
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:52,640
Speaker 2: Two phone calls to the offices of a pro government newspaper.

555
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:59,120
Speaker 2: The first caller spoke English, not Afrikaans. A day later,

556
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 2: a second call came to the same paper, and this

557
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 2: caller spoke Afrikaans, but he used the code word the

558
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:07,719
Speaker 2: reporter had given the previous caller to ensure he was

559
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:12,360
Speaker 2: speaking with the same group. Both callers told the newspaper

560
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:16,759
Speaker 2: that the White Wolves were responsible for the bombings and

561
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 2: that the bombings would continue if their demands weren't meant.

562
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:25,759
Speaker 2: Their primary demand was pretty straightforward. They wanted President de

563
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:29,880
Speaker 2: Clerk to call an election. His moves towards reform and

564
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:33,920
Speaker 2: concessions and negotiations with the ANC, and his recent release

565
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:38,440
Speaker 2: of Nelson Mandela. These things were unacceptable, and they wanted

566
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:42,440
Speaker 2: the opportunity to elect a better white president. But the

567
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:47,800
Speaker 2: group had two other strangely specific requests. They wanted the

568
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 2: White Wolf himself, Baron Stridam, released from prison, and they

569
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:55,920
Speaker 2: wanted the police to call off the man hunt for

570
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 2: Pete Rudolph, who was at this time still on the

571
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:02,560
Speaker 2: run after claiming responsibility for stealing all those guns from

572
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 2: the military and then sending the government a videotaped declaration

573
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 2: of war. But like I said, the White Wolves almost

574
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:19,440
Speaker 2: certainly didn't exist, not in nineteen ninety, not as an

575
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:24,640
Speaker 2: actual organized group, whatever that means for a group that

576
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:27,880
Speaker 2: didn't exist, though they were very busy in nineteen ninety.

577
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 2: In February, shortly after Nelson Mandela was released from prison,

578
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:37,239
Speaker 2: letters threatening to assassinate him were received by newspapers and

579
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:42,600
Speaker 2: those letters were signed the White Wolves. In May, when

580
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 2: President Declark announced another round of apartheid reforms, including the

581
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:50,880
Speaker 2: repeal of the law that segregated libraries, the White Wolves

582
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 2: put out a press release warning the president to watch

583
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:58,760
Speaker 2: his back. In May of nineteen ninety, three black activists

584
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 2: with the African National Congress were run off the road

585
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:05,480
Speaker 2: by two white men. Prince Makina and Simon Koba were murdered,

586
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 2: but Xavier Likuote survived to testify. He says, before one

587
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 2: of the white men started shooting at them. He'd ask

588
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 2: if they'd heard of the White Wolves, Lekuote said, he

589
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:21,840
Speaker 2: replied that he had, and just before opening fire, the

590
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:24,040
Speaker 2: man looked down at them and said, I'm going to

591
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:29,439
Speaker 2: show you just who the White Wolves are. And now

592
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:32,840
Speaker 2: in July, the White Wolves are claiming responsibility for most,

593
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:35,399
Speaker 2: though not all, of the bombs that had been going

594
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:39,160
Speaker 2: off every night for a week. It's possible that some

595
00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:42,239
Speaker 2: of the other incidents involving people claiming to be the

596
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:45,719
Speaker 2: White Wolves were just people doing what Leonard Binendal had

597
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:49,680
Speaker 2: done with that reporter. They were pretending they were acting

598
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:52,480
Speaker 2: on their own or in connection with some other group.

599
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:55,839
Speaker 2: But they liked the way it sounded to say they

600
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 2: were the White Wolves. They understood the kind of fear

601
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 2: it would inspire and the kind of plausible deniability it

602
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 2: would give their actual group affiliation for whatever they'd done.

603
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:10,840
Speaker 2: And more importantly, they wanted to honor the White Wolf

604
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 2: Baron Stredam. I see a lot of parallels here between

605
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:19,440
Speaker 2: the way Stritam's murders so quickly achieved this almost religious

606
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 2: significance and the way modern terogram culture canonized his mass shooters.

607
00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 2: I didn't realize they'd been doing that for so many decades.

608
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:33,160
Speaker 2: I don't know that it was ever conclusively proven who

609
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:35,880
Speaker 2: was actually behind every instance of someone claiming to be

610
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:38,839
Speaker 2: the White Wolves, but in at least one of those

611
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 2: cases we knew exactly who it was. The men who

612
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:46,600
Speaker 2: murdered Prince Makina and Simon Koba in May of nineteen

613
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 2: ninety was Peter Grinevald, son of General Teeny Gunivald, South

614
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:57,400
Speaker 2: Africa's head of military intelligence. Peter Garnivald fled the country

615
00:41:57,480 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 2: after the murders, and he spent years hiding in Portugal.

616
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 2: When he was finally brought to justice, he testified that

617
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 2: at the time of the murders, he had been an

618
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:10,920
Speaker 2: employee of the Civil Cooperation Bureau, just like Leonard Vinendal.

619
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 2: I'm not sure with conclusion to traw here, but the

620
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:20,640
Speaker 2: only two people I can say with conclusive proof were

621
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:25,920
Speaker 2: telling people that the White Wolves were real. Both turned

622
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:31,319
Speaker 2: out to be members of state sponsored death squads. But

623
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:35,240
Speaker 2: when it comes to those bombings in July, the police

624
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:38,880
Speaker 2: knew it wasn't the White Wolves because they knew it

625
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 2: was members of the AWB, And we know more specifically

626
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:45,920
Speaker 2: that it was members of the closely aligned splinter group,

627
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:50,320
Speaker 2: the Order Borofolk. There are a lot of reasons why

628
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:52,840
Speaker 2: we know that to be true, but just in case,

629
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 2: here's Pete Rudolph himself saying it in an interview. Last year.

630
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 1: We blew up National Party offices, we attacked some of

631
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:15,680
Speaker 1: the trade unions and it was becoming an open war.

632
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:20,640
Speaker 4: And this was under the flag of the Order Bouervont.

633
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 5: Under the older Budafowk, which were started on the tenth

634
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:29,719
Speaker 5: of October eighteen eighty nine in Connivence and with the

635
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:31,959
Speaker 5: assistance of the AWB.

636
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:38,840
Speaker 2: All three of the men who bombed those un offices

637
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 2: in Namibia in nineteen eighty nine had reappeared in South

638
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:47,120
Speaker 2: Africa by mid nineteen ninety, and all three were actively

639
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:51,239
Speaker 2: involved in the Order's bombing campaign that summer. And when

640
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 2: the police started making arrests in July of nineteen ninety,

641
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:59,000
Speaker 2: Horst Cleans, Darryl Stopped Fourth and Leonard Fienendal were three

642
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:02,120
Speaker 2: of the ten men pained and connection with the bombings.

643
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:07,279
Speaker 2: All ten of those men had ties to AWB. Several

644
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:09,560
Speaker 2: would later testify that they'd also been members of the

645
00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:12,720
Speaker 2: Order of Death, a group that required members to commit

646
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:18,319
Speaker 2: a random, unprovoked murder as an act of initiation. Now,

647
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:23,160
Speaker 2: I'm gonna be honest with you, I don't know what

648
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:27,160
Speaker 2: happened next. I tried so hard to sort this out.

649
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:31,239
Speaker 2: I love a day by day timeline, but I think

650
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:34,839
Speaker 2: there are a lot of factors complicating things here. I mean,

651
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:37,080
Speaker 2: first of all, it was thirty five years ago. Not

652
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:40,080
Speaker 2: every piece of news has been archived and digitized, and

653
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:43,400
Speaker 2: there's probably reporting out there that I just can't access.

654
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:46,319
Speaker 2: And there are still the issues I talked about last

655
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:48,719
Speaker 2: week when it comes to locating source material in a

656
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:52,920
Speaker 2: foreign language with naming conventions and cultural contexts that I

657
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:58,840
Speaker 2: just don't have. I've noticed a surprisingly casual attitude towards

658
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:02,760
Speaker 2: spelling and nick names. I mean, it was incredibly common

659
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:06,120
Speaker 2: across all of my sources for this story for someone's

660
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:09,760
Speaker 2: name to be spelled a handful of different ways, pretty interchangeably,

661
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:13,719
Speaker 2: sometimes even within the same article. And it seems like

662
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 2: it might be normal in Afrikaans to refer to a

663
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:21,279
Speaker 2: particular individual using their full name or just their first

664
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:24,600
Speaker 2: and middle initial with their last name or some kind

665
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:30,840
Speaker 2: of nickname, even in very formal writing, again totally interchangeably.

666
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:33,840
Speaker 2: It took me a week to realize that KOs is

667
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:37,320
Speaker 2: a nickname for Jacobis, and one guy might be written

668
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:40,759
Speaker 2: about both ways, from sentence to sentence. I don't know,

669
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:43,799
Speaker 2: maybe this is cultural. I have no idea, but it

670
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:49,600
Speaker 2: really complicates the process of looking for information. I've also

671
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:54,200
Speaker 2: noticed dates are often wrong. I mean a lot, like

672
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 2: markedly provably wrong, just not consistent from source to source,

673
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 2: sometimes just offering information that isn't possible. I mentioned last

674
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:06,799
Speaker 2: week that some of the dates in the Truth and

675
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:11,600
Speaker 2: Reconciliation Report are definitely not correct. Things like the year

676
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:14,759
Speaker 2: the Wit commando trials took place are pretty easy to

677
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:19,680
Speaker 2: corroborate with newspaper archives, and it happens over and over again.

678
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:22,880
Speaker 2: The bombing of the Frei vik Blot office is widely

679
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:27,200
Speaker 2: reported in later sources to have occurred in nineteen ninety one.

680
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:30,440
Speaker 2: The paper's own editor, Max Duprees, even puts the date

681
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:36,000
Speaker 2: as nineteen ninety one in his memoirs, but that's not true.

682
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:38,320
Speaker 2: He spoke to a reporter from the London Times about

683
00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:42,160
Speaker 2: the bombing the day after it happened in July of

684
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:46,560
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety and Duprees writes in his book that Leonard

685
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:51,080
Speaker 2: Wienendhal had confessed to having planted that bomb, which again

686
00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:54,240
Speaker 2: could not have happened in nineteen ninety one because Leonard

687
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:58,000
Speaker 2: Venendal was in prison in nineteen ninety one, and the

688
00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:02,440
Speaker 2: confession in question is actually very well documented because Venondal

689
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:05,640
Speaker 2: would later testify before the Truth and Reconciliation Commission that

690
00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:09,719
Speaker 2: he'd only confess to that bombing because police interrogators had

691
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:16,920
Speaker 2: electrocuted his testicles in July of nineteen ninety So sorting

692
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:19,120
Speaker 2: out a day by day timeline, which is again my

693
00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:24,520
Speaker 2: preferred strategy, really just wasn't possible here. There is no

694
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:29,400
Speaker 2: consistently reliable source when it comes to when a particular

695
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 2: event actually happened. And I'm not gidding about that the

696
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:38,080
Speaker 2: bit about Venendal claiming to have been tortured. He applied

697
00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:41,400
Speaker 2: to testify before the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, not as

698
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:45,960
Speaker 2: a perpetrator, but as a victim. He offered testimony about

699
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:55,120
Speaker 2: abuse he'd suffered after his arrest in July of nineteen ninety.

700
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:59,160
Speaker 6: I then experienced being shocked. Then the current would come

701
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:03,680
Speaker 6: through my leg, knew my arm, but stand through my gentiles.

702
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:07,759
Speaker 6: Sometimes they would come all free together while this was going,

703
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 6: he shouted at me. Why don't I call my God

704
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:12,200
Speaker 6: to release me from the chain.

705
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:18,399
Speaker 2: That clip comes from one of the weekly hour long

706
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:21,920
Speaker 2: broadcasts that aired every Sunday from nineteen ninety six through

707
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:25,799
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety eight. Every week South Africans could tune in

708
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:30,440
Speaker 2: for the Truth and Reconciliation Special Report, a compilation of

709
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:35,200
Speaker 2: clips from the hearings that was presented by Max Dupries,

710
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:38,880
Speaker 2: the newspaper editor whose office Mean and All admitted to bombing,

711
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:43,200
Speaker 2: and Duprez ends that segment of the show with his

712
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:47,719
Speaker 2: own commentary.

713
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:50,719
Speaker 7: I'm looking forward to mister Finnandahl's amnesty education hearing, and

714
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:54,080
Speaker 7: perhaps our Departments of Justice and Foreign Affairs owe the

715
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:56,960
Speaker 7: public and explanation why he has not been sent back

716
00:48:56,960 --> 00:48:58,160
Speaker 7: to Namobia to stand trial.

717
00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:05,600
Speaker 2: But back to the question of the missing facts, Perhaps

718
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:08,880
Speaker 2: the biggest factor here is that some of this information

719
00:49:09,160 --> 00:49:13,520
Speaker 2: just isn't there to find. And I don't mean it's

720
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:17,520
Speaker 2: missing from the archives. I mean it doesn't exist. These

721
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:21,839
Speaker 2: final years of the apartheid regime were chaotic. Someone might

722
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:25,279
Speaker 2: get arrested for terrorism and then there just isn't ever

723
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:28,400
Speaker 2: any follow up. I may be searching for answers that

724
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:32,239
Speaker 2: aren't there, because sometimes cops would round up a bunch

725
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:34,640
Speaker 2: of guys and put a story in the newspaper, and

726
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:38,800
Speaker 2: then I don't know, they just aren't in jail anymore,

727
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:42,680
Speaker 2: and there's never any more to the story. Sometimes people

728
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:46,239
Speaker 2: escaped two members of the Order Bora Folk definitely did.

729
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:52,200
Speaker 2: And sometimes people were quietly released because they secretly worked

730
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:57,120
Speaker 2: for the government. And during this time period especially, the

731
00:49:57,200 --> 00:50:01,600
Speaker 2: government had a strategy of politically targeted am As part

732
00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:06,839
Speaker 2: of this effort to cool tensions and advanced negotiations, there

733
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:10,879
Speaker 2: were these occasional releases of political prisoners. They just pick

734
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:13,160
Speaker 2: a few guys on both sides of the conflict and

735
00:50:13,239 --> 00:50:18,120
Speaker 2: let them go. And unlike the later, more organized and

736
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:23,719
Speaker 2: thoughtful process of granting amnesty through the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, this,

737
00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:26,799
Speaker 2: at least to me, I could be wrong here, but

738
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:30,919
Speaker 2: this looked a little haphazard. It doesn't look like these

739
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:36,080
Speaker 2: early nineties amnesty releases really involved any sort of long

740
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:40,440
Speaker 2: process of thoroughly accounting for what actually happened and documenting

741
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:43,480
Speaker 2: the specifics and getting statements on the record, getting people

742
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:47,680
Speaker 2: to admit what they'd done. They just sort of let

743
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:52,200
Speaker 2: people go and one of the more egregious instances of

744
00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:56,319
Speaker 2: this was the release of Baron Stretum in nineteen ninety two.

745
00:50:57,360 --> 00:51:00,640
Speaker 2: The men who laughed as he shot pedestrians at random

746
00:51:01,360 --> 00:51:05,520
Speaker 2: had served just four years, and the release of political

747
00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:09,080
Speaker 2: prisoners was a part of the ongoing negotiations between the

748
00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:13,480
Speaker 2: National Party administration and the African National Congress. Both sides

749
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:15,279
Speaker 2: were getting some of their people out of prison, and

750
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:19,280
Speaker 2: the A and C seemed generally supportive of the strategy,

751
00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:24,040
Speaker 2: but not when it came to Barons Stritum. Cyril Ramaposa,

752
00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:27,080
Speaker 2: the current President of South Africa, was the A and

753
00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:30,080
Speaker 2: C General secretary back in nineteen ninety two, and he

754
00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:34,359
Speaker 2: issued their statement condemning the decision. Our prisoners will not

755
00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:37,200
Speaker 2: go out and commit these acts again, he said. But

756
00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:39,600
Speaker 2: there's no guarantee that the prisoners who hate black people

757
00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:44,160
Speaker 2: will not come out and shoot more black people. Baron

758
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:47,600
Speaker 2: Stretum didn't carry out another mass shooting after his release,

759
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:50,840
Speaker 2: not that I'm aware of, but he did continue to

760
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:55,600
Speaker 2: support and encourage far right violence. Shortly after his release.

761
00:51:55,680 --> 00:52:00,520
Speaker 2: Australian journalist Alan Hogan interviewed Stridam about the murders. Camera

762
00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:05,840
Speaker 2: not in a studio or his living room. No, the

763
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:09,759
Speaker 2: interview took place as the pair walked together along the

764
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:13,080
Speaker 2: path that Stridam had taken that day, and he's pointing

765
00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:17,960
Speaker 2: out the locations each spot where he took a human life,

766
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:24,799
Speaker 2: and he's laughing, and he enthusiastically agrees that, Yeah, if

767
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:30,680
Speaker 2: you gave me a gun right now, I do it again, Rock.

768
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:35,000
Speaker 7: Then then I say shut another one here. That's three,

769
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:39,279
Speaker 7: so that's free so far. You see these couple of

770
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:43,200
Speaker 7: bucks sitting here now, yeah, would you like to shut

771
00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:48,279
Speaker 7: them another another time?

772
00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:58,480
Speaker 2: All that to say, the early nineties were a little chaotic,

773
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:03,279
Speaker 2: So I'm come saying, I just don't know why. It

774
00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:05,800
Speaker 2: looks like no one was ever charged for those bombings

775
00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:10,120
Speaker 2: in July of nineteen ninety. I can tell you for

776
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:13,520
Speaker 2: certain that ten members of the Order were arrested in

777
00:53:13,560 --> 00:53:17,000
Speaker 2: the summer of nineteen ninety after that series of bombings.

778
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:21,360
Speaker 2: One was released after he agreed to cooperate to escape,

779
00:53:22,520 --> 00:53:27,000
Speaker 2: and Leonard Wienendal Darrel stopped Forth and Horst Cleans were

780
00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:30,560
Speaker 2: in jail, originally held in connection with the bombings for

781
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:34,719
Speaker 2: violations of Section twenty nine of the Internal Security Act,

782
00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:37,960
Speaker 2: and they seemed to stay in jail for quite a while.

783
00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:41,560
Speaker 2: No charges were ever actually filed against them for those

784
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:45,239
Speaker 2: bombings in South Africa, but while they were in custody,

785
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:49,440
Speaker 2: the newly independent nation of Namibia filed a petition to

786
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:52,160
Speaker 2: have them extradited to face trial for those murders. In

787
00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:57,000
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty nine. The Truth and Reconciliation Report notes in

788
00:53:57,200 --> 00:54:00,879
Speaker 2: passing that they were never interviewed by Nimbia authorities during

789
00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:06,120
Speaker 2: this time period. It doesn't say why, if they asked

790
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:09,520
Speaker 2: and weren't given permission, or if they just never asked.

791
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:12,280
Speaker 2: And I do have articles that were published in nineteen

792
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:16,040
Speaker 2: ninety and nineteen ninety one that seemed to indicate they

793
00:54:16,120 --> 00:54:20,920
Speaker 2: remained in continuous custody throughout this time, But after those

794
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:24,120
Speaker 2: first few months, the articles stopped mentioning why they'd been

795
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:26,560
Speaker 2: arrested in the first place, and they only refer to

796
00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:29,040
Speaker 2: the fact that they're still being held pending a determination

797
00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:33,239
Speaker 2: about extradition. By July of nineteen ninety one, a year

798
00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:36,960
Speaker 2: after they were arrested, both Vinendhal and Cleans were reportedly

799
00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:40,759
Speaker 2: dangerously ill from an ongoing hunger strike, along with other

800
00:54:40,840 --> 00:54:45,480
Speaker 2: incarcerated members of the Order Bfolk. They were political prisoners.

801
00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:48,760
Speaker 2: They said they'd only carried out the orders of the state.

802
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:52,200
Speaker 2: They can't be prosecuted for that, and they said they

803
00:54:52,239 --> 00:54:55,040
Speaker 2: would continue their hunger strike until their demands were met.

804
00:54:56,960 --> 00:55:00,120
Speaker 2: News stories show Fienandl was on a hunger strike as

805
00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:03,520
Speaker 2: early as January of ninety one and as late as

806
00:55:03,600 --> 00:55:06,680
Speaker 2: August of ninety two, So that can't have been continuous

807
00:55:06,719 --> 00:55:11,680
Speaker 2: because he's still alive. But for about two years, I

808
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:14,240
Speaker 2: can place him in jail and he's going on intermittent

809
00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:19,279
Speaker 2: hunger strikes to protest this continued detention. In April of

810
00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:22,120
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety two, a South African judge did rule that

811
00:55:22,160 --> 00:55:26,399
Speaker 2: the Autio three could be extradited to Namibia. Stop Fourth

812
00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:29,880
Speaker 2: and Venandal tried to appeal that ruling, but horse Glen's

813
00:55:29,920 --> 00:55:34,040
Speaker 2: wasn't really participating. He just kind of disappeared, and when

814
00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:36,240
Speaker 2: they were all released on bond in December of nineteen

815
00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:40,280
Speaker 2: ninety two to await this final ruling, he disappeared entirely.

816
00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:45,279
Speaker 2: It would take another four years, but in nineteen ninety six,

817
00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:50,240
Speaker 2: the Minister of Justice finally signed the extradition order. Horst

818
00:55:50,239 --> 00:55:53,600
Speaker 2: Glens was otherwise engaged by Van He was serving time

819
00:55:53,640 --> 00:55:56,879
Speaker 2: for the plot we'll cover next week. But Darrell stop

820
00:55:56,920 --> 00:55:59,480
Speaker 2: Fourth and Leonard Venondal were ordered to surrender themselves for

821
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:05,440
Speaker 2: extradition to Namibia, but they didn't. I can't figure out

822
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:09,799
Speaker 2: where Darryl stopped Fourth ended up. I tried, but I

823
00:56:09,840 --> 00:56:14,600
Speaker 2: know exactly where Leonard Venendall is because just as he

824
00:56:14,680 --> 00:56:17,440
Speaker 2: was due to present himself to the authorities to be extradited,

825
00:56:18,239 --> 00:56:21,840
Speaker 2: he stole a car, crossed the border and flew to

826
00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:26,520
Speaker 2: the United Kingdom. Some reporting says he initially entered the

827
00:56:26,600 --> 00:56:30,319
Speaker 2: United Kingdom using a false passport, probably because he was

828
00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:32,879
Speaker 2: on Inner Poll's most wanted list, and that he didn't

829
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:36,400
Speaker 2: try to claim asylum until after he was caught, but

830
00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:41,200
Speaker 2: it's unclear. The man that Eugene Tareblanche used to affectionately

831
00:56:41,239 --> 00:56:45,680
Speaker 2: refer to as my little fanatic settled down with his

832
00:56:45,719 --> 00:56:49,239
Speaker 2: family in Wisbeck, a town about one hundred miles north

833
00:56:49,239 --> 00:56:52,520
Speaker 2: of London. He's the chair of the Wisbeck Rugby Club

834
00:56:52,760 --> 00:56:56,440
Speaker 2: and his wife Tracy, is the treasurer. The payday loan

835
00:56:56,520 --> 00:56:59,000
Speaker 2: company he started after moving to England went into liquidation

836
00:56:59,080 --> 00:57:02,080
Speaker 2: a few years ago. I'm not really familiar with how

837
00:57:02,080 --> 00:57:04,600
Speaker 2: anything works in the UK, and I really don't know

838
00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:07,880
Speaker 2: how you could bankrupt a business that's pure extortionate profit,

839
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:12,919
Speaker 2: but that is what the paperwork appears to show. There's

840
00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:15,240
Speaker 2: been a handful of articles over the years asking why

841
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:18,560
Speaker 2: Leonard Wienandal was allowed to enter and remain in the

842
00:57:18,640 --> 00:57:22,080
Speaker 2: United Kingdom. In two thousand and three, a reporter tracked

843
00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:25,200
Speaker 2: him down in his home in Wisbec, and Searchlight magazine

844
00:57:25,200 --> 00:57:29,400
Speaker 2: would later report that Vnandal allegedly attacked the reporter, grabbing

845
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:31,920
Speaker 2: him and slamming him up against a wall, shouting, you're

846
00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:36,480
Speaker 2: going to find yourself in a very negative position. Subsequent

847
00:57:36,560 --> 00:57:40,680
Speaker 2: attempts to write articles about Venondal don't contain quotes from him.

848
00:57:42,840 --> 00:57:46,080
Speaker 2: He and his wife are South African citizens born in

849
00:57:46,120 --> 00:57:50,920
Speaker 2: South Africa. There's no evidence he actually applied for political asylum.

850
00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:53,919
Speaker 2: Corporate filings for his bankrupt paid a loan company list

851
00:57:53,960 --> 00:57:58,360
Speaker 2: his nationality as South African, which, again, knowing nothing about

852
00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:02,600
Speaker 2: British business zoom, means he did not seek British citizenship.

853
00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:07,880
Speaker 2: So the UK is just willingly harboring a man who

854
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:13,600
Speaker 2: still wanted for two murders in Namibia. International extradition law

855
00:58:13,640 --> 00:58:16,320
Speaker 2: can be a bit tricky, but ultimately even if they

856
00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:21,280
Speaker 2: couldn't or don't want to extradite him to Namibia, why

857
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:24,040
Speaker 2: is he still in the UK. They could deport him

858
00:58:24,080 --> 00:58:28,200
Speaker 2: back to South Africa, and presumably the South African government

859
00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:31,640
Speaker 2: would finish what they started in nineteen ninety and send

860
00:58:31,720 --> 00:58:37,440
Speaker 2: him to Namibia. In February of this year, as Donald

861
00:58:37,480 --> 00:58:40,920
Speaker 2: Trump started parroting white nationalist talking points about South Africa,

862
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:45,800
Speaker 2: Mihnandhl made a flurry of online posts praising the American President,

863
00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:50,960
Speaker 2: writing in one post last month, thank you President Donald J. Trump,

864
00:58:51,040 --> 00:58:53,120
Speaker 2: not only for hearing the plight of my people, the

865
00:58:53,120 --> 00:58:55,960
Speaker 2: poor africaners, but for boldly stepping up to stand with

866
00:58:56,040 --> 00:58:58,240
Speaker 2: them in their hour of need and face of adversity.

867
00:59:00,040 --> 00:59:03,920
Speaker 2: Jimmy Carter died in December. Bvenandal posted he just died,

868
00:59:03,960 --> 00:59:06,760
Speaker 2: so we're supposed to pretend he's a saint. But Carter

869
00:59:06,920 --> 00:59:11,959
Speaker 2: was instrumental in killing the free, prosperous state of Rhodesia.

870
00:59:13,440 --> 00:59:16,160
Speaker 2: Like I said, I can't tell you whatever became of

871
00:59:16,240 --> 00:59:20,040
Speaker 2: Darrell stop fourth, but we'll pick back up next week

872
00:59:20,600 --> 00:59:24,240
Speaker 2: with horsed cleans. He was released from the South African

873
00:59:24,280 --> 00:59:27,160
Speaker 2: jail in nineteen ninety two, pending a decision on whether

874
00:59:27,240 --> 00:59:31,200
Speaker 2: or not he could be extradited to Namibia. Unlike stop

875
00:59:31,200 --> 00:59:33,800
Speaker 2: fourth in Biennondal, he doesn't seem to have participated in

876
00:59:33,840 --> 00:59:38,000
Speaker 2: the legal battle to appeal that decision. He went underground,

877
00:59:39,240 --> 00:59:43,160
Speaker 2: and he doesn't resurface again until nineteen ninety four, when

878
00:59:43,160 --> 00:59:47,720
Speaker 2: he's arrested again, this time after a shootout with the

879
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:51,000
Speaker 2: South African police that left one of his young German

880
00:59:51,040 --> 00:59:55,280
Speaker 2: mercenaries dead. And that's where we'll find the woman who

881
00:59:55,360 --> 00:59:59,280
Speaker 2: set me down this long, strange path. It was Monica

882
00:59:59,320 --> 01:00:03,919
Speaker 2: Huggett who was graciously playing host for those foreign mercenaries.

883
01:00:24,480 --> 01:00:27,960
Speaker 2: In early March of nineteen ninety four, three men left

884
01:00:28,000 --> 01:00:33,080
Speaker 2: the Bosnian city of Siroki brieg German mercenaries Falk Semang

885
01:00:33,160 --> 01:00:36,600
Speaker 2: and Ralph Moracas were eager for a change of scenery,

886
01:00:37,920 --> 01:00:40,720
Speaker 2: not because they had tired of their lives as soldiers

887
01:00:40,720 --> 01:00:43,400
Speaker 2: of fortune, but because they were in a bit of

888
01:00:43,440 --> 01:00:48,200
Speaker 2: hot water after murdering two of their fellow mercenaries, and

889
01:00:48,320 --> 01:00:51,240
Speaker 2: Ronald Doyster, a Dutch mercenary they'd worked with on his

890
01:00:51,400 --> 01:00:55,200
Speaker 2: last stint with the Croatian forces, was happy to recruit

891
01:00:55,240 --> 01:00:58,400
Speaker 2: them to a new mission, one far away from the

892
01:00:58,440 --> 01:01:02,760
Speaker 2: mess they'd made in the Balkans. Before they left, they

893
01:01:02,800 --> 01:01:06,600
Speaker 2: took a few souvenirs, a couple of AK forty sevens,

894
01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:13,080
Speaker 2: one pistol, eight kilos of semtex, a plastic explosive, and

895
01:01:13,120 --> 01:01:17,280
Speaker 2: a crate of hand grenades. They stashed the stolen weapons

896
01:01:17,360 --> 01:01:20,040
Speaker 2: under the seats of the old Citron that Doyster was driving.

897
01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:25,840
Speaker 2: Doyster was no stranger to committing crimes across borders. He'd

898
01:01:25,880 --> 01:01:28,640
Speaker 2: been a soldier for hire for over a decade and

899
01:01:28,720 --> 01:01:31,400
Speaker 2: had served a bit of time in Ireland for arms smuggling.

900
01:01:32,880 --> 01:01:36,200
Speaker 2: He was confident that his expertly forged un press credentials

901
01:01:36,200 --> 01:01:39,280
Speaker 2: were all they'd need to ensure a clean getaway without

902
01:01:39,320 --> 01:01:45,240
Speaker 2: anyone searching the vehicle, and he was right. After driving

903
01:01:45,240 --> 01:01:50,560
Speaker 2: nearly two thousand kilometers, they reached their first destination, the

904
01:01:50,560 --> 01:01:55,160
Speaker 2: Belgian city of Roussillara. There they met with Roger Spinewen,

905
01:01:55,760 --> 01:01:57,920
Speaker 2: the leader of a Belgian Neo Nazi group called the

906
01:01:58,040 --> 01:02:01,320
Speaker 2: Order of Flemish Militants. He was a bit of a

907
01:02:01,400 --> 01:02:05,600
Speaker 2: legend in certain circles. He was already an old man,

908
01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:07,880
Speaker 2: but in the seventies he'd led a small group of

909
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:13,680
Speaker 2: Belgian Nazis in a daring heist of sorts, successfully stealing

910
01:02:13,680 --> 01:02:16,120
Speaker 2: the corpse of a long dead Nazi priest from his

911
01:02:16,240 --> 01:02:19,240
Speaker 2: grave in Austria to be reinterred on his home soil

912
01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:22,760
Speaker 2: in Belgium. And on that day in March of nineteen

913
01:02:22,800 --> 01:02:26,920
Speaker 2: ninety four, Spinewin paid Douster eleven thousand Deutsche marks for

914
01:02:27,000 --> 01:02:32,240
Speaker 2: the stolen weapons, but he gave him one more thing directions.

915
01:02:33,840 --> 01:02:36,280
Speaker 2: It had been Spinewen who had asked Deuster to return

916
01:02:36,320 --> 01:02:40,160
Speaker 2: to Bosnia this one last time, not as a mercenary

917
01:02:40,200 --> 01:02:44,440
Speaker 2: this time, but to fetch hardware and recruits for a

918
01:02:44,480 --> 01:02:49,960
Speaker 2: new mission, one in South Africa. The Aeging Neo Nazi

919
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:53,320
Speaker 2: had spent his life fighting for fascism At home in Belgium.

920
01:02:54,280 --> 01:02:56,280
Speaker 2: His son John was a member of parliament as a

921
01:02:56,320 --> 01:03:00,360
Speaker 2: leader in the far right party of Vlam's Bloc. World

922
01:03:00,480 --> 01:03:03,600
Speaker 2: continued to change around him. He hoped to retire one

923
01:03:03,640 --> 01:03:07,640
Speaker 2: day in a beautiful white Ethno state in Southern Africa.

924
01:03:09,160 --> 01:03:11,640
Speaker 2: Here on the eve of the end of apartheid, though

925
01:03:12,200 --> 01:03:15,160
Speaker 2: that dream was starting to look less and less likely,

926
01:03:16,560 --> 01:03:19,560
Speaker 2: unless they could incite enough violence in those final months

927
01:03:20,080 --> 01:03:23,240
Speaker 2: to convince the white population of South Africa that they

928
01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:27,600
Speaker 2: needed to secede to form a new pure white nation,

929
01:03:29,240 --> 01:03:32,280
Speaker 2: and this was the task he'd recruited these mercenaries for.

930
01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:38,160
Speaker 2: It wasn't safe to depart directly from Belgium, the authorities

931
01:03:38,160 --> 01:03:42,840
Speaker 2: there were already a little suspicious. Instead, the mercenaries took

932
01:03:42,840 --> 01:03:46,600
Speaker 2: the ferry across the English Channel to Ramsgate, a seaside

933
01:03:46,640 --> 01:03:51,120
Speaker 2: town in Kent. There, with an introduction from Spinowin, they

934
01:03:51,120 --> 01:03:55,160
Speaker 2: made their next contacts, members of the British fascist group,

935
01:03:55,560 --> 01:03:59,560
Speaker 2: the League of Saint George. They spent a few days

936
01:03:59,560 --> 01:04:02,640
Speaker 2: there making final preparations for their journey with the help

937
01:04:02,640 --> 01:04:06,480
Speaker 2: of their new English friends. This was becoming something of

938
01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:09,880
Speaker 2: a routine for the members of the League of Saint George.

939
01:04:09,960 --> 01:04:12,440
Speaker 2: Just two months earlier, they'd hosted another batch of German

940
01:04:12,480 --> 01:04:17,000
Speaker 2: mercenaries making the same trip. They didn't know just yet

941
01:04:17,440 --> 01:04:21,800
Speaker 2: that one of those men was already dead. On the

942
01:04:21,840 --> 01:04:24,200
Speaker 2: evening before Doyster and the Germans were scheduled to fly

943
01:04:24,240 --> 01:04:27,960
Speaker 2: out of Heathrow, Roger Spinowen dispatched one of his sons

944
01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:33,840
Speaker 2: to Ramsgate with one final message for the mercenaries. Willie

945
01:04:33,880 --> 01:04:37,880
Speaker 2: Spinowen handed Ronald Doyster a sealed envelope and passed along

946
01:04:37,920 --> 01:04:42,400
Speaker 2: his father's order, Doyster was to personally hand deliver this

947
01:04:42,560 --> 01:04:45,360
Speaker 2: envelope to the woman who would meet him at the airport,

948
01:04:46,640 --> 01:04:54,480
Speaker 2: a woman named Monica hugget I'm Molly Conger and this

949
01:04:55,520 --> 01:05:14,240
Speaker 2: is weird, little guys. This is the part of the

950
01:05:14,280 --> 01:05:17,400
Speaker 2: story where we finally rejoined the woman we started with,

951
01:05:18,360 --> 01:05:26,040
Speaker 2: Monica Huggett Stone. It's been a long, strange journey. We

952
01:05:26,080 --> 01:05:29,760
Speaker 2: started out a few weeks ago in twenty twelve, in Sacramento, California,

953
01:05:31,240 --> 01:05:34,760
Speaker 2: American neo Nazis from the Golden State Skinheads were rallying

954
01:05:34,760 --> 01:05:38,439
Speaker 2: outside the state capitol holding the flag of apartheid South

955
01:05:38,480 --> 01:05:42,920
Speaker 2: Africa when counter protesters from a nearby occupy encampment showed

956
01:05:43,000 --> 01:05:48,280
Speaker 2: up to heckle them. What an odd site, those skinheads

957
01:05:48,320 --> 01:05:51,360
Speaker 2: in their black jackets rallying for the imaginary cause of

958
01:05:51,360 --> 01:05:56,080
Speaker 2: a white genocide against South African farmers. That rally was

959
01:05:56,080 --> 01:05:58,760
Speaker 2: one of more than a dozen simultaneous rallies across the

960
01:05:58,800 --> 01:06:02,480
Speaker 2: United States that day, though they were mostly poorly attended

961
01:06:02,560 --> 01:06:06,440
Speaker 2: and some were barely publicized, and all of them were

962
01:06:06,520 --> 01:06:10,520
Speaker 2: organized by a short lived Aryan Nations affiliated group called

963
01:06:10,880 --> 01:06:17,040
Speaker 2: the South Africa Project, and that group itself was almost

964
01:06:17,040 --> 01:06:21,080
Speaker 2: certainly really just two people, a long time Arian Nations

965
01:06:21,120 --> 01:06:25,560
Speaker 2: member named Maurice Goulette and a mysterious woman in Louisiana

966
01:06:26,520 --> 01:06:32,400
Speaker 2: named Monica Stone. I'm always surprised by the twists and

967
01:06:32,480 --> 01:06:36,080
Speaker 2: turns that these stories take. Once you start turning over

968
01:06:36,120 --> 01:06:39,800
Speaker 2: a few rocks, there's always some bizarre new ankle that

969
01:06:40,040 --> 01:06:42,200
Speaker 2: takes us miles from where I thought we were going.

970
01:06:43,840 --> 01:06:46,600
Speaker 2: But this one has been the strangest ride of any

971
01:06:46,640 --> 01:06:51,040
Speaker 2: weird little guy so far. In this chapter of the story,

972
01:06:51,600 --> 01:06:55,280
Speaker 2: we'll try to trace the paths of these European mercenaries

973
01:06:55,320 --> 01:07:00,360
Speaker 2: from Bosnia to South Africa. It turns out there was

974
01:07:00,400 --> 01:07:04,120
Speaker 2: an international network to funnel guns for hire from one

975
01:07:04,160 --> 01:07:08,920
Speaker 2: conflict to another, And as cloak and dagger as all

976
01:07:08,960 --> 01:07:14,800
Speaker 2: of that sounds, it wasn't really a secret, not entirely.

977
01:07:16,600 --> 01:07:20,760
Speaker 2: Searchlight magazine had reported on the scheme months before Those

978
01:07:20,760 --> 01:07:25,920
Speaker 2: German mercenaries even bought their plane tickets. Every year for

979
01:07:26,000 --> 01:07:29,760
Speaker 2: decades now, European Neo Nazis gather in the Belgian city

980
01:07:29,840 --> 01:07:34,520
Speaker 2: of Dixmude for an international fascist get together, and at

981
01:07:34,520 --> 01:07:37,320
Speaker 2: the event in nineteen ninety three, there was a lot

982
01:07:37,360 --> 01:07:42,880
Speaker 2: of talk about changing their focus about redirecting mercenaries from

983
01:07:42,920 --> 01:07:49,560
Speaker 2: the Balkans to South Africa, and plans were made. At

984
01:07:49,640 --> 01:07:52,760
Speaker 2: least fifteen mercenaries were pledged to be dispatched in early

985
01:07:52,840 --> 01:07:56,600
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety four with plans to fight alongside Robert vent

986
01:07:56,640 --> 01:08:02,640
Speaker 2: Honter's Boristock Party. All of this was published in print

987
01:08:03,320 --> 01:08:08,440
Speaker 2: in English in the fall of nineteen ninety three, months

988
01:08:08,640 --> 01:08:14,960
Speaker 2: before this actually happened. That same publication, Searchlight magazine, would

989
01:08:14,960 --> 01:08:17,479
Speaker 2: eventually uncover more of the details about what went on

990
01:08:17,520 --> 01:08:21,320
Speaker 2: at Dixmuda in nineteen ninety three. It was at this

991
01:08:21,400 --> 01:08:25,320
Speaker 2: summit that Roger Spinwin recruited Ronald Doyster to return to

992
01:08:25,360 --> 01:08:30,879
Speaker 2: Bosnia to recruit more mercenaries for South Africa, and according

993
01:08:30,880 --> 01:08:34,400
Speaker 2: to another source, it was also sometime in late nineteen

994
01:08:34,479 --> 01:08:37,360
Speaker 2: ninety three that Roger Spinwin paid a visit to South

995
01:08:37,400 --> 01:08:43,599
Speaker 2: Africa himself at the invitation of Monica Huggett. I mentioned

996
01:08:43,600 --> 01:08:46,559
Speaker 2: a few weeks ago that the first step in tracking

997
01:08:46,600 --> 01:08:50,240
Speaker 2: this Monica Stone, the one who organized those rallies in

998
01:08:50,280 --> 01:08:53,799
Speaker 2: twenty twelve, back to her home country of South Africa,

999
01:08:54,880 --> 01:08:59,479
Speaker 2: was figuring out her maiden name, which is Huggitt, and

1000
01:08:59,520 --> 01:09:02,040
Speaker 2: I did that by digging up old corporate filings for

1001
01:09:02,120 --> 01:09:05,920
Speaker 2: a Christian identity church called the New Christian Crusade Church.

1002
01:09:07,200 --> 01:09:09,479
Speaker 2: And the New Christian Crusade Church was run by a

1003
01:09:09,479 --> 01:09:15,240
Speaker 2: man named James k Warner. I don't think Warner necessarily

1004
01:09:15,320 --> 01:09:19,080
Speaker 2: qualifies as a big name, but he shows up in

1005
01:09:19,120 --> 01:09:23,280
Speaker 2: a lot of big stories. He was an early member

1006
01:09:23,280 --> 01:09:26,600
Speaker 2: of George Lincoln Rockwell's American Nazi Party. He was a

1007
01:09:26,680 --> 01:09:29,639
Speaker 2: leading member of the short lived National States Rights Party,

1008
01:09:30,640 --> 01:09:33,360
Speaker 2: and in his clan days, he was a very close

1009
01:09:33,439 --> 01:09:37,880
Speaker 2: friend of David Duke. I've left myself a note to

1010
01:09:38,080 --> 01:09:40,880
Speaker 2: come back to James k Warner. I think there's some

1011
01:09:41,000 --> 01:09:45,320
Speaker 2: real weird little guy stuff going on here, and I

1012
01:09:45,360 --> 01:09:48,000
Speaker 2: do have a quick correction to make, as much as

1013
01:09:48,000 --> 01:09:51,280
Speaker 2: it pains me, I just realized I misspoke in the

1014
01:09:51,360 --> 01:09:55,080
Speaker 2: last episode where I mentioned James k Warner. I called

1015
01:09:55,160 --> 01:09:59,760
Speaker 2: him Robert k Warner. Careless. Honestly, I should have caught that.

1016
01:09:59,840 --> 01:10:02,880
Speaker 2: But to be honest with you, I'm recording this at

1017
01:10:03,240 --> 01:10:06,120
Speaker 2: one in the morning, and this is early by my

1018
01:10:06,240 --> 01:10:08,599
Speaker 2: usual standards. I'm always a little down to the wire.

1019
01:10:10,200 --> 01:10:12,960
Speaker 2: But I think what happened there was just a slight

1020
01:10:13,000 --> 01:10:17,320
Speaker 2: mix up because in my defense, James Conrad Warner did

1021
01:10:17,360 --> 01:10:21,439
Speaker 2: have a brother named Robert L. Warner, and he did

1022
01:10:21,560 --> 01:10:23,760
Speaker 2: use his brother's name on the deeds to some of

1023
01:10:23,800 --> 01:10:28,320
Speaker 2: the church property. But it turns out that Monica's connection

1024
01:10:28,400 --> 01:10:31,760
Speaker 2: to Robert K. Warner may be the answer to a

1025
01:10:31,840 --> 01:10:37,200
Speaker 2: question that's been bothering me for weeks. How on earth

1026
01:10:37,880 --> 01:10:41,280
Speaker 2: did a woman in South Africa manage to join the

1027
01:10:41,400 --> 01:10:45,840
Speaker 2: Ku Klux Klan? If you recall the story in the

1028
01:10:45,880 --> 01:10:49,639
Speaker 2: episode two weeks ago, Monica Hugget was arrested in nineteen

1029
01:10:49,680 --> 01:10:52,759
Speaker 2: eighty one in connection with a series of pro apartheid

1030
01:10:52,840 --> 01:10:56,800
Speaker 2: bombings by a group that called itself the Vid Commando,

1031
01:10:56,960 --> 01:10:59,800
Speaker 2: and after her arrest, she agreed to testify against the

1032
01:11:00,000 --> 01:11:04,519
Speaker 2: Italian fascists that she'd helped carry out those bombings. During

1033
01:11:04,560 --> 01:11:07,040
Speaker 2: the trial, she said she was a member of the

1034
01:11:07,120 --> 01:11:11,880
Speaker 2: American Ku Klux Klan, and she told the authorities that

1035
01:11:11,920 --> 01:11:14,120
Speaker 2: the books they'd used as a guide for making those

1036
01:11:14,160 --> 01:11:18,720
Speaker 2: bombs had been sent to her by her American clan contacts,

1037
01:11:20,080 --> 01:11:22,400
Speaker 2: So she wasn't just a member of a Ku Klux

1038
01:11:22,479 --> 01:11:28,120
Speaker 2: Klan style group that operated independently in South Africa. She's

1039
01:11:28,120 --> 01:11:31,680
Speaker 2: saying that she has active contact with the clan in

1040
01:11:31,720 --> 01:11:35,559
Speaker 2: the United States, because there is a big difference there.

1041
01:11:36,479 --> 01:11:39,000
Speaker 2: There have been groups in other countries that have adopted

1042
01:11:39,000 --> 01:11:43,600
Speaker 2: the esthetic and the ideology of the clan without necessarily

1043
01:11:43,640 --> 01:11:47,200
Speaker 2: maintaining meaningful contact with the group they're modeling themselves after.

1044
01:11:48,680 --> 01:11:52,280
Speaker 2: In other examples, what looks like a foreign iteration of

1045
01:11:52,320 --> 01:11:55,160
Speaker 2: the clan is actually just an American who happens to

1046
01:11:55,200 --> 01:11:58,680
Speaker 2: be living overseas. In the nineteen eighties, there was an

1047
01:11:58,680 --> 01:12:01,840
Speaker 2: American serviceman station in Germany who claimed that he was

1048
01:12:01,920 --> 01:12:05,680
Speaker 2: leading an active clan group in Bavaria. And in the

1049
01:12:05,720 --> 01:12:09,000
Speaker 2: Denis Mahon story, we saw an American klansman who traveled

1050
01:12:09,040 --> 01:12:13,400
Speaker 2: internationally trying to spark an interest in American clan aesthetics

1051
01:12:13,400 --> 01:12:18,759
Speaker 2: and ideology, but with relatively little success. So what Monica's

1052
01:12:18,800 --> 01:12:23,439
Speaker 2: talking about here is something a little different, and I

1053
01:12:23,520 --> 01:12:28,240
Speaker 2: was stumped, truly. As we'll get to later on in

1054
01:12:28,240 --> 01:12:32,559
Speaker 2: the story, I can absolutely connect Monica huggets Stone to

1055
01:12:32,560 --> 01:12:36,760
Speaker 2: the American Ku Klux Klan by the nineteen nineties. I've

1056
01:12:36,800 --> 01:12:40,160
Speaker 2: got the Federal election commissioned filings to prove that that's easy.

1057
01:12:41,560 --> 01:12:45,160
Speaker 2: But I still have no answers when it comes to

1058
01:12:45,200 --> 01:12:48,800
Speaker 2: the question of klansmen in South Africa in the late

1059
01:12:48,960 --> 01:12:55,320
Speaker 2: nineteen seventies, not in any concrete way, but I do

1060
01:12:55,400 --> 01:13:00,640
Speaker 2: have a theory. One of the sources I've relied on

1061
01:13:00,720 --> 01:13:03,639
Speaker 2: heavily throughout this series is a nineteen ninety nine thesis

1062
01:13:03,680 --> 01:13:07,200
Speaker 2: by Mita Visser on the white fascist movements in South

1063
01:13:07,240 --> 01:13:11,560
Speaker 2: Africa in the twentieth century, and she sort of hints

1064
01:13:11,680 --> 01:13:16,439
Speaker 2: at this idea. She writes, quote, the activities of the

1065
01:13:16,479 --> 01:13:20,400
Speaker 2: clan in South Africa are obscure. Although the police had

1066
01:13:20,400 --> 01:13:23,719
Speaker 2: no concrete evidence that the movement was active in South Africa,

1067
01:13:24,320 --> 01:13:27,240
Speaker 2: there were claims in the press in the late seventies

1068
01:13:27,920 --> 01:13:32,160
Speaker 2: that branch has existed in the country, And so in

1069
01:13:32,240 --> 01:13:35,400
Speaker 2: Visser's thesis she gives a couple of examples that are

1070
01:13:35,479 --> 01:13:41,280
Speaker 2: definitely evidence of that esthetic copycat behavior I'm talking about. So,

1071
01:13:41,400 --> 01:13:43,640
Speaker 2: when the Vit Commando took credit for those bombings in

1072
01:13:43,720 --> 01:13:47,120
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty, the letters they sent to the press had

1073
01:13:47,240 --> 01:13:51,120
Speaker 2: a symbol in the letter head that was almost identical

1074
01:13:51,520 --> 01:13:55,280
Speaker 2: to the logo used by American clan groups. And in

1075
01:13:55,360 --> 01:13:57,880
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety, when two members of the Order of Death

1076
01:13:57,920 --> 01:14:01,960
Speaker 2: went on trial for murder, our supporters packed the courtroom,

1077
01:14:02,560 --> 01:14:06,479
Speaker 2: and they were all wearing little clan lapel pens, and

1078
01:14:06,479 --> 01:14:09,600
Speaker 2: one of them even told a reporter the order is

1079
01:14:09,640 --> 01:14:14,840
Speaker 2: long gone. It's the Ku Klux Klan now. In an

1080
01:14:14,920 --> 01:14:17,760
Speaker 2: unrelated side note, just to wrap up a loose end

1081
01:14:17,760 --> 01:14:20,840
Speaker 2: from the last episode, I can tell I've spent too

1082
01:14:20,920 --> 01:14:24,760
Speaker 2: much time digging around for details I'm not gonna need

1083
01:14:24,800 --> 01:14:29,640
Speaker 2: for this story when side characters start to look really familiar.

1084
01:14:30,880 --> 01:14:33,200
Speaker 2: When I was reading that anecdote about the order of

1085
01:14:33,280 --> 01:14:37,560
Speaker 2: death trial in nineteen ninety, I recognized the names of

1086
01:14:37,600 --> 01:14:41,720
Speaker 2: the murderers. Cornelius Lottering and Fanny Goosen were two of

1087
01:14:41,760 --> 01:14:45,040
Speaker 2: the ten members of the Africaner Resistance movement who were

1088
01:14:45,120 --> 01:14:47,720
Speaker 2: arrested in the summer of nineteen ninety. So when they

1089
01:14:47,760 --> 01:14:52,120
Speaker 2: scooped up Leonard Wienendahl and Horst Cleans, Lottering and Goosen

1090
01:14:52,160 --> 01:14:55,759
Speaker 2: were in that bunch. And I mentioned in last week's

1091
01:14:55,760 --> 01:14:59,680
Speaker 2: episode that I couldn't exactly tell what became of all

1092
01:14:59,720 --> 01:15:02,759
Speaker 2: ten of those men, but two of them had escaped

1093
01:15:02,800 --> 01:15:07,880
Speaker 2: from custody, and those two were Lauding and Guzen, so

1094
01:15:07,960 --> 01:15:10,200
Speaker 2: I guess they found them again because they did get

1095
01:15:10,200 --> 01:15:15,160
Speaker 2: convicted of murder. But back to the question of the clan.

1096
01:15:16,760 --> 01:15:19,320
Speaker 2: I could have left it there, but I think you

1097
01:15:19,439 --> 01:15:23,519
Speaker 2: probably know by now that I didn't, because if he

1098
01:15:23,640 --> 01:15:27,160
Speaker 2: dig just a little bit deeper into the past. There

1099
01:15:27,400 --> 01:15:30,920
Speaker 2: was a man in South Africa who called himself the

1100
01:15:31,040 --> 01:15:34,600
Speaker 2: leader of the South African Ku Klux Klan in the

1101
01:15:34,680 --> 01:15:37,760
Speaker 2: nineteen sixties and into the seventies. He died in the

1102
01:15:37,840 --> 01:15:44,599
Speaker 2: late seventies. His name was Raymond Kirch Rudman, and by

1103
01:15:44,640 --> 01:15:46,519
Speaker 2: the time he was trying to get a South African

1104
01:15:46,600 --> 01:15:49,640
Speaker 2: clan going, he was already pretty old, and he was

1105
01:15:49,720 --> 01:15:53,600
Speaker 2: decades into his career as a professional anti Semite with

1106
01:15:53,800 --> 01:16:00,120
Speaker 2: impressive international connections. Aside from his clan activities, Rudman was

1107
01:16:00,160 --> 01:16:02,720
Speaker 2: also the leader of an African or nationalist group called

1108
01:16:02,760 --> 01:16:08,839
Speaker 2: the Boranasi, originally founded by Many Merits. Meretz's son, also

1109
01:16:08,880 --> 01:16:12,640
Speaker 2: called many Merits, was a prominent figure in the Africaner

1110
01:16:12,680 --> 01:16:15,879
Speaker 2: resistance movement. During the same time period as Monica Huggett

1111
01:16:17,160 --> 01:16:20,679
Speaker 2: and Rudman also led a group called the Anglo Norman Union.

1112
01:16:22,000 --> 01:16:25,280
Speaker 2: I can't find much information about the extent to which

1113
01:16:25,680 --> 01:16:29,400
Speaker 2: that group actually operated in South Africa, like did it

1114
01:16:29,479 --> 01:16:34,719
Speaker 2: actually have real members, But in nineteen sixty five. Rudman

1115
01:16:34,800 --> 01:16:38,000
Speaker 2: did use the group to join the World Union of

1116
01:16:38,120 --> 01:16:43,360
Speaker 2: National Socialists. That was an effort by George Lincoln Rockwell's

1117
01:16:43,360 --> 01:16:46,479
Speaker 2: American Nazi Party and Colin Jordan, who was then the

1118
01:16:46,520 --> 01:16:49,000
Speaker 2: head of the National Socialist movement in the United Kingdom,

1119
01:16:49,600 --> 01:16:53,519
Speaker 2: to form I guess exactly what it sounds, a World

1120
01:16:53,960 --> 01:16:58,679
Speaker 2: Union of Nazi groups. But when it comes to the Clan,

1121
01:16:59,439 --> 01:17:02,400
Speaker 2: there's not much written, at least not that I was

1122
01:17:02,439 --> 01:17:05,760
Speaker 2: able to find about the history of the clan in

1123
01:17:05,800 --> 01:17:11,120
Speaker 2: South Africa. But everything that does exist has Ray Rudman's

1124
01:17:11,200 --> 01:17:17,600
Speaker 2: name on it. Last year, doctor William Robert Phillips completed

1125
01:17:17,640 --> 01:17:22,000
Speaker 2: his dissertation at Emory University, and I know, I know

1126
01:17:22,160 --> 01:17:25,479
Speaker 2: that dissertation has the answers I'm looking for, but it

1127
01:17:25,520 --> 01:17:29,280
Speaker 2: is currently embargoed and not available to read. But a

1128
01:17:29,280 --> 01:17:31,439
Speaker 2: write up about his research tells me I'm on the

1129
01:17:31,520 --> 01:17:35,720
Speaker 2: right track. He was researching anti Semitic bombings in the

1130
01:17:35,800 --> 01:17:39,400
Speaker 2: United States during the Civil Rights era when he came

1131
01:17:39,439 --> 01:17:43,559
Speaker 2: across one of the same sources I did. An old

1132
01:17:43,640 --> 01:17:46,679
Speaker 2: mention of Ray Rudman trying to recruit for a clan

1133
01:17:46,800 --> 01:17:52,160
Speaker 2: group in South Africa in the early nineteen sixties. Phillips

1134
01:17:52,160 --> 01:17:54,719
Speaker 2: was able to secure grant funding to spend several weeks

1135
01:17:54,760 --> 01:17:57,280
Speaker 2: in South Africa at the University of the Free State,

1136
01:17:57,680 --> 01:18:02,240
Speaker 2: where Rudman's personal papers are held in a special collection. Again,

1137
01:18:02,400 --> 01:18:07,080
Speaker 2: unfortunately for me, I can't read Phillips's research, but I

1138
01:18:07,080 --> 01:18:11,559
Speaker 2: do have the finding aid for Rudman's papers, I can't

1139
01:18:11,560 --> 01:18:15,320
Speaker 2: actually see what's written. The documents aren't digitized. A finding

1140
01:18:15,320 --> 01:18:19,040
Speaker 2: aid is just an inventory listing the contents of various

1141
01:18:19,080 --> 01:18:23,439
Speaker 2: boxes and folders, and I would love to get my

1142
01:18:23,600 --> 01:18:27,320
Speaker 2: hands on some of those letters because listed in that

1143
01:18:27,439 --> 01:18:32,240
Speaker 2: inventory are entries for correspondents between Ray Rudman and the

1144
01:18:32,320 --> 01:18:36,799
Speaker 2: New Christian Crusade Church dated as early as the sixties

1145
01:18:36,840 --> 01:18:41,840
Speaker 2: and seventies. There's also an entry listing correspondence between Ray

1146
01:18:41,920 --> 01:18:46,080
Speaker 2: Rudman and the National States Rights Party dated from the

1147
01:18:46,160 --> 01:18:50,759
Speaker 2: nineteen fifties. The inventory also lists more than forty books

1148
01:18:50,760 --> 01:18:54,240
Speaker 2: in Rudman's collection that were published by James K Warner,

1149
01:18:54,760 --> 01:18:57,439
Speaker 2: either through his Sons of Liberty Press or the New

1150
01:18:57,520 --> 01:19:02,200
Speaker 2: Christian Crusade Church. A similar finding aid for the personal

1151
01:19:02,240 --> 01:19:04,760
Speaker 2: papers of James k Warner, held by the University of

1152
01:19:04,800 --> 01:19:10,280
Speaker 2: Wyoming also lists correspondence between James Warner and Ray Rudman,

1153
01:19:11,800 --> 01:19:15,000
Speaker 2: and Warner's Nazi publishing outfit, the Sons of Liberty Press,

1154
01:19:15,640 --> 01:19:19,200
Speaker 2: also published and sold English language versions of texts by

1155
01:19:19,439 --> 01:19:23,799
Speaker 2: South African anti semi Johann Schumann an African inter nationalist

1156
01:19:23,880 --> 01:19:31,040
Speaker 2: politician Yap Maree. So I can't tell you exactly how

1157
01:19:31,120 --> 01:19:35,080
Speaker 2: Monica Huggett came to join the Ku Klux Klan, but

1158
01:19:35,160 --> 01:19:38,800
Speaker 2: there is some really solid connective tissue here. It doesn't

1159
01:19:38,800 --> 01:19:42,280
Speaker 2: feel as random now. So when she moved to the

1160
01:19:42,360 --> 01:19:46,040
Speaker 2: United States, she was a close enough associate of James

1161
01:19:46,120 --> 01:19:48,680
Speaker 2: K Warner that he put her in charge of his

1162
01:19:48,760 --> 01:19:52,839
Speaker 2: new Christian Crusade church, and that has to have something

1163
01:19:52,880 --> 01:19:55,519
Speaker 2: to do with the fact that archives show that he

1164
01:19:55,640 --> 01:19:58,800
Speaker 2: was in active communication with the far right in South

1165
01:19:58,840 --> 01:20:03,920
Speaker 2: Africa from his earliest days in the movement. It looks

1166
01:20:03,920 --> 01:20:06,320
Speaker 2: like I have some more digging to do on the

1167
01:20:06,320 --> 01:20:10,400
Speaker 2: subject of the Fascist International, because the number of connections

1168
01:20:10,439 --> 01:20:15,200
Speaker 2: here is honestly pretty staggering to me. James K Warner

1169
01:20:15,320 --> 01:20:17,760
Speaker 2: visited England in the seventies to speak at a meeting

1170
01:20:17,760 --> 01:20:21,479
Speaker 2: of the League of Saint George. In nineteen eighty, our

1171
01:20:21,520 --> 01:20:26,560
Speaker 2: Belgian Nazi Roger Spinewen was deported from the United States

1172
01:20:26,720 --> 01:20:29,200
Speaker 2: while he was here visiting members of the National States

1173
01:20:29,320 --> 01:20:34,519
Speaker 2: Rights Party and our South African Clansman Ray Rudman was

1174
01:20:34,600 --> 01:20:37,600
Speaker 2: listed as the South African correspondent in issues of a

1175
01:20:37,640 --> 01:20:42,679
Speaker 2: British fascist magazine in the nineteen seventies. All of these

1176
01:20:42,720 --> 01:20:50,040
Speaker 2: guys are connected going back decades. But I've been promising

1177
01:20:50,080 --> 01:20:54,120
Speaker 2: to get to this part of the story for weeks now,

1178
01:20:55,000 --> 01:20:57,479
Speaker 2: the part where a handful of German mercenaries get into

1179
01:20:57,479 --> 01:20:59,720
Speaker 2: a shootout with the South African police in March of

1180
01:20:59,800 --> 01:21:04,280
Speaker 2: night eighteen ninety four. A few episodes ago, I told

1181
01:21:04,320 --> 01:21:06,400
Speaker 2: you that one of the first places I found Monica

1182
01:21:06,479 --> 01:21:10,160
Speaker 2: Hugget's name was in the South African Truth and Reconciliation

1183
01:21:10,240 --> 01:21:14,920
Speaker 2: Commission's Final Report in Volume two. The portion of the

1184
01:21:14,960 --> 01:21:18,560
Speaker 2: report that deals with quote the Commission of Gross Violations

1185
01:21:18,600 --> 01:21:23,080
Speaker 2: of Human Rights, Chapter seven political violence in the Era

1186
01:21:23,200 --> 01:21:28,760
Speaker 2: of Negotiations and Transition. Under the subheading links with international

1187
01:21:28,840 --> 01:21:34,759
Speaker 2: right wing groups, the report reads. The first link between

1188
01:21:34,840 --> 01:21:37,439
Speaker 2: ultra right terrorism and foreign agencies came to light in

1189
01:21:37,520 --> 01:21:42,080
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty two when mister Fabiomiello, mister Massimo Bolo and

1190
01:21:42,160 --> 01:21:45,519
Speaker 2: mister Eugenio's office all white foreign expatriots known as the

1191
01:21:45,520 --> 01:21:48,799
Speaker 2: White Commando, were convicted of the nineteen seventy nine bombing

1192
01:21:48,840 --> 01:21:53,240
Speaker 2: of the offices of prominent academic doctor Jan Lombard. Originally,

1193
01:21:53,240 --> 01:21:55,839
Speaker 2: mister Kus ver Mullin and Miss Monica hugget were arrested

1194
01:21:55,840 --> 01:21:58,880
Speaker 2: with them, but Huggitt turned state's witness and Vermullin was

1195
01:21:58,920 --> 01:22:02,800
Speaker 2: released after a few days. Huggett's name was subsequently linked

1196
01:22:02,800 --> 01:22:05,000
Speaker 2: to a shootout in March of nineteen ninety four between

1197
01:22:05,000 --> 01:22:07,439
Speaker 2: the South African police and three German right wingers in

1198
01:22:07,479 --> 01:22:11,280
Speaker 2: the Donkerhok area. One German right winger, mister Stephen Rays

1199
01:22:11,360 --> 01:22:14,880
Speaker 2: was arrested, Mister Thomas Kuns was shot dead, and a third,

1200
01:22:14,960 --> 01:22:19,519
Speaker 2: mister Horse Cleans, was later arrested. A fourth, mister Alexander Nydeleine,

1201
01:22:19,600 --> 01:22:22,200
Speaker 2: was later charged in the Cullen and Magistrates Court for

1202
01:22:22,320 --> 01:22:27,120
Speaker 2: illegal possession of a firearm. And I read that paragraph

1203
01:22:27,200 --> 01:22:31,760
Speaker 2: before you've heard that bit, and at this point you

1204
01:22:31,880 --> 01:22:34,920
Speaker 2: know some of the back story that paragraph is talking about.

1205
01:22:36,120 --> 01:22:38,679
Speaker 2: Two weeks ago, we talked about the Vit Commando bombings

1206
01:22:38,720 --> 01:22:41,719
Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty and we spent most of the last

1207
01:22:41,760 --> 01:22:47,040
Speaker 2: episode talking about one of those men Horst Cleans. Before

1208
01:22:47,200 --> 01:22:50,559
Speaker 2: that shootout in nineteen ninety four, Glen's had been involved

1209
01:22:50,560 --> 01:22:53,000
Speaker 2: in a nineteen eighty nine attack on a United Nations

1210
01:22:53,000 --> 01:22:56,759
Speaker 2: outpost in Namibia, killing a security guard and later murdering

1211
01:22:56,800 --> 01:23:00,400
Speaker 2: a police constable when he and his accomplices escaped from custody.

1212
01:23:01,920 --> 01:23:04,280
Speaker 2: And at some point I teased you a little bit

1213
01:23:04,439 --> 01:23:07,920
Speaker 2: with a story about Alexander Nydline. He was the German

1214
01:23:08,000 --> 01:23:11,120
Speaker 2: neo Nazi who swore allegiance to Donald Trump at a

1215
01:23:11,120 --> 01:23:34,519
Speaker 2: fascist rally in Croatia in twenty seventeen. So we know

1216
01:23:34,560 --> 01:23:37,760
Speaker 2: where Horst Clean's was in the early nineties. He was

1217
01:23:37,840 --> 01:23:41,880
Speaker 2: in South Africa. But how did those other three men

1218
01:23:42,120 --> 01:23:49,479
Speaker 2: actually get there? In nineteen ninety four, Alexander Nydline, Stephen

1219
01:23:49,600 --> 01:23:52,920
Speaker 2: Rays and Thomas Koonst follow the same path as the

1220
01:23:52,960 --> 01:23:58,160
Speaker 2: mercenaries recruited by Ronald Doyster. They deserted from the Convicts Battalion,

1221
01:23:58,439 --> 01:24:01,640
Speaker 2: a paramilitary unit of the Crow Defense Council made up

1222
01:24:01,680 --> 01:24:05,519
Speaker 2: of prisoners and foreign mercenaries, and they left Bosnia with

1223
01:24:05,560 --> 01:24:09,120
Speaker 2: stolen weapons. Then, with the help of the League of

1224
01:24:09,120 --> 01:24:12,280
Speaker 2: Saint George in England, they made their way down to

1225
01:24:12,360 --> 01:24:17,599
Speaker 2: South Africa and just like Ronald Doyster. They were given

1226
01:24:17,640 --> 01:24:19,960
Speaker 2: the name of a woman who would pick them up

1227
01:24:19,960 --> 01:24:35,799
Speaker 2: from the airport, Monica Huggett. And here is another place

1228
01:24:35,920 --> 01:24:39,240
Speaker 2: in my research for this story where I found a

1229
01:24:39,360 --> 01:24:43,640
Speaker 2: very unlikely source of information that I just couldn't have

1230
01:24:43,680 --> 01:24:48,120
Speaker 2: gotten anywhere else. Two weeks ago I had to give

1231
01:24:48,160 --> 01:24:53,360
Speaker 2: my begrudging thanks to the Central Intelligence Agency after discovering

1232
01:24:53,439 --> 01:24:57,200
Speaker 2: English translations of South African news stories in archived reports

1233
01:24:57,200 --> 01:25:02,040
Speaker 2: from the CIA's Foreign Broadcast Information Service. And this week

1234
01:25:02,400 --> 01:25:06,880
Speaker 2: I haven't even more unsavory source, I think, though he

1235
01:25:06,960 --> 01:25:07,920
Speaker 2: isn't around to hear it.

1236
01:25:10,600 --> 01:25:15,920
Speaker 4: This is the prosecution's appeal concerning Praliac in all other

1237
01:25:16,080 --> 01:25:21,280
Speaker 4: respect respects affirms the sentence of twenty years of imprisonment,

1238
01:25:21,920 --> 01:25:25,200
Speaker 4: subject to credit being given on the rule one oh

1239
01:25:25,200 --> 01:25:28,200
Speaker 4: one see of the rules for the period he has

1240
01:25:28,240 --> 01:25:32,920
Speaker 4: already spent. In attention, step Praliac. You may be seated,

1241
01:25:36,640 --> 01:25:42,519
Speaker 4: wat your stop. Please please sit down.

1242
01:25:45,560 --> 01:25:50,639
Speaker 2: That audio might not sound familiar, but if you're extremely online,

1243
01:25:51,280 --> 01:25:54,760
Speaker 2: you've seen mimified images of this moment used as a

1244
01:25:54,840 --> 01:25:58,920
Speaker 2: reaction give a thousand times. I know it. I'm sure

1245
01:25:58,960 --> 01:26:01,760
Speaker 2: you know the one I'm talking about. It's a white

1246
01:26:01,800 --> 01:26:04,400
Speaker 2: haired old man in a suit, and he's drinking from

1247
01:26:04,439 --> 01:26:10,240
Speaker 2: a small vial. That man is Slobodon Proliac. He died

1248
01:26:10,280 --> 01:26:14,439
Speaker 2: by suicide in twenty seventeen, and the meme shows the

1249
01:26:14,479 --> 01:26:17,200
Speaker 2: moment that he produced a small vial of cyanide from

1250
01:26:17,240 --> 01:26:20,439
Speaker 2: his pocket after a judge at the Hague announced that

1251
01:26:20,479 --> 01:26:24,960
Speaker 2: his sentence for war crimes would be upheld. I don't

1252
01:26:24,960 --> 01:26:28,960
Speaker 2: speak Croatian, but news reports translated his last words in

1253
01:26:29,000 --> 01:26:34,120
Speaker 2: that video as judges, Slobodon Proliac is not a war criminal.

1254
01:26:34,680 --> 01:26:40,280
Speaker 2: With disdain, I reject your verdict, and then he knocks

1255
01:26:40,320 --> 01:26:44,640
Speaker 2: back the vial of cyanide. We don't have to get

1256
01:26:44,680 --> 01:26:48,360
Speaker 2: into the crimes against humanity that Slobodon Proliac was convicted

1257
01:26:48,400 --> 01:26:52,880
Speaker 2: of by the International Criminal Tribunal for Former Yugoslavia. He

1258
01:26:52,920 --> 01:26:57,639
Speaker 2: doesn't really factor in directly to our story at all,

1259
01:26:57,760 --> 01:27:01,120
Speaker 2: but he did choose to defend himself without an attorney

1260
01:27:01,720 --> 01:27:05,439
Speaker 2: during his war crimes trial, and as part of that effort,

1261
01:27:06,000 --> 01:27:11,599
Speaker 2: he had a website dedicated to proving his innocence, and

1262
01:27:11,640 --> 01:27:16,400
Speaker 2: that website is actually still online today. But the documents

1263
01:27:16,400 --> 01:27:20,400
Speaker 2: that I found most useful in researching this story don't

1264
01:27:20,439 --> 01:27:24,320
Speaker 2: appear to be accessible on the current version of the site.

1265
01:27:24,920 --> 01:27:28,559
Speaker 2: So buried in this poorly organized series of files on

1266
01:27:28,640 --> 01:27:32,960
Speaker 2: an archived version of this war criminal's website, I found

1267
01:27:32,960 --> 01:27:38,960
Speaker 2: something terribly interesting. All of the existing reporting that I

1268
01:27:38,960 --> 01:27:43,840
Speaker 2: could find about Alexander Ninelein, Stephen Rays, and Thomas Coonst

1269
01:27:44,120 --> 01:27:48,040
Speaker 2: and their whereabouts in late nineteen ninety three seems to

1270
01:27:48,120 --> 01:27:52,400
Speaker 2: rely on one of those documents, an arrest warrant signed

1271
01:27:52,439 --> 01:27:57,120
Speaker 2: by their commanding officer, a war criminal named Maladin Nalatilic,

1272
01:27:58,160 --> 01:28:01,240
Speaker 2: which I know I've not pronounced correctly, so we'll just

1273
01:28:01,280 --> 01:28:06,920
Speaker 2: call him by his nickname Teuta. Everyone else did. When

1274
01:28:06,920 --> 01:28:11,680
Speaker 2: those three German mercenaries deserted from Teuta's Ragtag Convicts Battalion

1275
01:28:11,920 --> 01:28:15,200
Speaker 2: in the middle of December of nineteen ninety three, he

1276
01:28:15,240 --> 01:28:22,320
Speaker 2: wrote a memo requesting arrest warrants. Translated, it reads, on

1277
01:28:22,400 --> 01:28:26,240
Speaker 2: December sixteenth, nineteen ninety three, members of the Convicts Battalion

1278
01:28:26,400 --> 01:28:30,679
Speaker 2: fled from Sierroki Brieg to an unknown destination after spending

1279
01:28:30,880 --> 01:28:33,799
Speaker 2: three to four days in the unit after sealing weapons

1280
01:28:33,800 --> 01:28:39,519
Speaker 2: and ammunition. The memo goes on to specify that, aside

1281
01:28:39,520 --> 01:28:42,160
Speaker 2: from their names and the fact that they'd been briefly

1282
01:28:42,160 --> 01:28:46,960
Speaker 2: affiliated with the unit. He had no additional information about

1283
01:28:46,960 --> 01:28:51,120
Speaker 2: these three men. It's possible that a lot is lost

1284
01:28:51,160 --> 01:28:54,479
Speaker 2: in translation here, but it kind of looks like he's

1285
01:28:55,200 --> 01:28:58,840
Speaker 2: really going out of his way to distance himself from

1286
01:28:58,880 --> 01:29:02,280
Speaker 2: these men, because he's very explicit that they were only

1287
01:29:02,280 --> 01:29:04,719
Speaker 2: there for a few days and he doesn't know anything

1288
01:29:04,720 --> 01:29:09,200
Speaker 2: about them. These guys are strangers to him, and I

1289
01:29:09,200 --> 01:29:12,000
Speaker 2: guess there's no reason to doubt that. It's what every

1290
01:29:12,000 --> 01:29:14,880
Speaker 2: write up about the incident says. And who knows, maybe

1291
01:29:14,920 --> 01:29:18,280
Speaker 2: they got all the way there and they realized war

1292
01:29:18,479 --> 01:29:21,920
Speaker 2: isn't very fun and they changed their minds. That makes

1293
01:29:21,960 --> 01:29:25,439
Speaker 2: plenty of sense, right, But I think it would be

1294
01:29:25,560 --> 01:29:29,520
Speaker 2: terribly naive to take a war criminal at his word

1295
01:29:30,760 --> 01:29:36,680
Speaker 2: because he was lying in that chaotic document dump. On

1296
01:29:36,840 --> 01:29:41,879
Speaker 2: Slowbodon Prolac's website, I found tuta's request for the issuance

1297
01:29:41,880 --> 01:29:45,160
Speaker 2: of those arrest warrants, and I found the arrest warrants themselves,

1298
01:29:46,400 --> 01:29:50,719
Speaker 2: and they were both signed by TUTA. I clicked through,

1299
01:29:51,080 --> 01:29:54,760
Speaker 2: I don't know, maybe a hundred documents that mostly meant

1300
01:29:54,800 --> 01:29:58,120
Speaker 2: absolutely nothing to me. I didn't really know what I

1301
01:29:58,200 --> 01:30:01,320
Speaker 2: was looking for or what might even be there for.

1302
01:30:01,360 --> 01:30:06,439
Speaker 2: Me to find. But I did find another document bearing

1303
01:30:06,479 --> 01:30:10,160
Speaker 2: the signature of the commander of the Convex Battalion, and

1304
01:30:10,200 --> 01:30:14,800
Speaker 2: this one was dated December second, nineteen ninety three, a

1305
01:30:14,840 --> 01:30:18,559
Speaker 2: full two weeks before those men deserted. And it's a

1306
01:30:18,600 --> 01:30:21,600
Speaker 2: list of soldiers under Tuta's command. And it appears to

1307
01:30:21,600 --> 01:30:24,760
Speaker 2: have been written on a typewriter, and next to the

1308
01:30:24,840 --> 01:30:27,000
Speaker 2: name of each soldier who had been paid for their

1309
01:30:27,040 --> 01:30:29,960
Speaker 2: service in the month of November, he had drawn a

1310
01:30:30,080 --> 01:30:35,760
Speaker 2: check mark in pencil. And there twenty four pages into

1311
01:30:35,800 --> 01:30:42,080
Speaker 2: this list of names are Alexander Nydeline, Stephen Rays, and

1312
01:30:42,160 --> 01:30:46,479
Speaker 2: Thomas Kunst. Nydeline and Coonst both have a check mark

1313
01:30:46,560 --> 01:30:49,519
Speaker 2: next to their name, indicating that they'd been paid for

1314
01:30:49,600 --> 01:30:54,879
Speaker 2: the month of November. Nydeline has over the years taken

1315
01:30:54,920 --> 01:30:59,240
Speaker 2: issue with journalists who characterize him as a mercenary, often

1316
01:30:59,360 --> 01:31:02,559
Speaker 2: arguing that he never actually got paid, so he can't

1317
01:31:02,560 --> 01:31:06,599
Speaker 2: be called a mercenary. So this document at least offers

1318
01:31:06,680 --> 01:31:12,240
Speaker 2: some possible rebuttal to that next to Stephen Ray's name,

1319
01:31:12,320 --> 01:31:16,400
Speaker 2: though there isn't a check mark. Instead, there's a little

1320
01:31:16,479 --> 01:31:19,720
Speaker 2: symbol that looks like it might be the letter D.

1321
01:31:21,640 --> 01:31:24,439
Speaker 2: I think the soldiers who have died are the ones

1322
01:31:24,479 --> 01:31:27,839
Speaker 2: with a little cross next to their name, and soldiers

1323
01:31:27,840 --> 01:31:30,880
Speaker 2: who are in the hospital either have a B or

1324
01:31:31,040 --> 01:31:36,120
Speaker 2: the word bolnika, which means hospital written out. And I

1325
01:31:36,120 --> 01:31:45,280
Speaker 2: couldn't find any commonly used word for something like dead, deceased, killed, deserted, quit, captured,

1326
01:31:45,320 --> 01:31:49,679
Speaker 2: any words like that. I couldn't find any that would

1327
01:31:49,680 --> 01:31:56,040
Speaker 2: start with D in Croatian. But there are some words

1328
01:31:56,080 --> 01:32:01,080
Speaker 2: and phrases related to the concept of author leave or

1329
01:32:01,200 --> 01:32:06,800
Speaker 2: a permitted absence that do start with D in Croatian.

1330
01:32:08,080 --> 01:32:10,920
Speaker 2: I'm just spitballing here. I have no idea what it

1331
01:32:10,960 --> 01:32:14,120
Speaker 2: could mean. I don't know anything about running a mercenary

1332
01:32:14,200 --> 01:32:16,800
Speaker 2: unit to do war crimes, and I don't speak Croatian.

1333
01:32:17,120 --> 01:32:21,800
Speaker 2: I'm just guessing. But regardless of what these mysterious little

1334
01:32:21,800 --> 01:32:27,040
Speaker 2: symbols mean, here's their commanding officer's signature on a document

1335
01:32:27,560 --> 01:32:31,880
Speaker 2: listing their names two weeks before. He says they had

1336
01:32:32,000 --> 01:32:36,280
Speaker 2: only just shown up in the last couple of days.

1337
01:32:44,000 --> 01:32:47,800
Speaker 2: The obvious next question, then, is why would he lie

1338
01:32:48,040 --> 01:32:51,960
Speaker 2: about how long they'd been with the unit. The short answer,

1339
01:32:52,240 --> 01:32:55,639
Speaker 2: obviously is, I don't know. I don't think anybody knows.

1340
01:32:57,000 --> 01:33:00,040
Speaker 2: But if I had to guess, I would say he

1341
01:33:00,200 --> 01:33:07,280
Speaker 2: covering his ass. The convict's battalion was becoming increasingly unpopular

1342
01:33:07,800 --> 01:33:12,320
Speaker 2: by late nineteen ninety three. It was again exactly what

1343
01:33:12,360 --> 01:33:14,599
Speaker 2: it sounds like. It was made up of people who

1344
01:33:14,640 --> 01:33:18,000
Speaker 2: had been in prison for violent crimes, as well as

1345
01:33:18,040 --> 01:33:23,840
Speaker 2: foreign mercenaries who had volunteered to commit violent crimes, and

1346
01:33:23,880 --> 01:33:26,920
Speaker 2: they were out of control. A letter sent to a

1347
01:33:26,920 --> 01:33:30,679
Speaker 2: Croatian general, signed by another officer that same month, December

1348
01:33:30,720 --> 01:33:35,400
Speaker 2: of nineteen ninety three, complained about Tuta's convicts running a muck.

1349
01:33:36,400 --> 01:33:40,240
Speaker 2: They weren't just committing war crimes, but they were killing

1350
01:33:40,240 --> 01:33:45,440
Speaker 2: and raping military and police personnel on their own side,

1351
01:33:45,520 --> 01:33:49,920
Speaker 2: and their commanding officer was protecting them. So I can

1352
01:33:49,960 --> 01:33:53,599
Speaker 2: only assume that he was trying to distance himself from

1353
01:33:53,640 --> 01:33:58,280
Speaker 2: another embarrassing act of misconduct by this ragtag group of

1354
01:33:58,439 --> 01:34:02,439
Speaker 2: foreign murderers when these three Germans deserted the unit with

1355
01:34:02,520 --> 01:34:07,720
Speaker 2: a bunch of stolen guns and bombs. Other sources I

1356
01:34:07,800 --> 01:34:10,720
Speaker 2: found writing about the actions of mercenaries in the Bosnian

1357
01:34:10,760 --> 01:34:16,160
Speaker 2: War single out the German mercenaries in particular for their brutality.

1358
01:34:17,760 --> 01:34:21,760
Speaker 2: Rob Kraut, a frequent contributor to soldier of Fortune magazine

1359
01:34:22,280 --> 01:34:25,520
Speaker 2: wrote in his book Save the Last Bullet for Yourself

1360
01:34:26,400 --> 01:34:28,880
Speaker 2: that the Germans he served with during the Bosnian War

1361
01:34:29,160 --> 01:34:32,880
Speaker 2: had a terrible habit of cutting the ears off the

1362
01:34:32,880 --> 01:34:38,759
Speaker 2: people they killed and keeping them as trophies. Austrian journalist

1363
01:34:38,800 --> 01:34:44,160
Speaker 2: Christoph Santner co wrote egay yetst Ramboshpielen, which translates to

1364
01:34:44,600 --> 01:34:48,799
Speaker 2: I'm going to play Rambo now with former mercenary. Wolfgang

1365
01:34:48,920 --> 01:34:53,360
Speaker 2: Nighter writer and Nighter writer recounts seeing a German mercenary

1366
01:34:53,680 --> 01:34:57,360
Speaker 2: hand a live grenade to a seven year old Muslim

1367
01:34:57,400 --> 01:35:01,880
Speaker 2: boy in the Bosnian city of Mostar as a joke

1368
01:35:02,479 --> 01:35:05,600
Speaker 2: of some sort. The mercenary told the boy it was

1369
01:35:05,640 --> 01:35:09,880
Speaker 2: a toy, and the child was blown to pieces moments later.

1370
01:35:11,880 --> 01:35:15,360
Speaker 2: There was no shortitch of violence in the Balkans in

1371
01:35:15,360 --> 01:35:18,599
Speaker 2: the early nineties. There's plenty of blame to go around,

1372
01:35:19,960 --> 01:35:22,679
Speaker 2: so it seems all the more remarkable that even in

1373
01:35:22,720 --> 01:35:28,360
Speaker 2: this context, other actual war criminals, people sentenced to life

1374
01:35:28,439 --> 01:35:32,160
Speaker 2: in prison at the Hague, people who were guns for hire,

1375
01:35:33,080 --> 01:35:37,160
Speaker 2: they were looking at these German mercenaries and saying that's

1376
01:35:37,200 --> 01:35:43,080
Speaker 2: a little bit too much. Now. I hesitate to build

1377
01:35:43,080 --> 01:35:48,720
Speaker 2: a theory on the sand of speculation. But if that

1378
01:35:48,760 --> 01:35:54,160
Speaker 2: little D next to Stephen Rays's name does happen to

1379
01:35:54,200 --> 01:35:58,479
Speaker 2: mean that he was on leave in November, that does

1380
01:35:58,600 --> 01:36:02,840
Speaker 2: line up with some other sort of hazy details about

1381
01:36:02,840 --> 01:36:07,000
Speaker 2: this time period, because again we know that there was

1382
01:36:07,040 --> 01:36:11,240
Speaker 2: an international effort to recruit mercenaries to travel to South Africa.

1383
01:36:12,360 --> 01:36:14,679
Speaker 2: The two men from the beginning of this episode, Fox

1384
01:36:14,680 --> 01:36:19,000
Speaker 2: Samang and Ralph Morajz were recruited by Ronald Douster personally

1385
01:36:19,680 --> 01:36:22,439
Speaker 2: when he traveled to Bosnia in early nineteen ninety four,

1386
01:36:23,880 --> 01:36:27,960
Speaker 2: and by all accounts, Nideline Rays and coonst were recruited

1387
01:36:28,439 --> 01:36:34,479
Speaker 2: by Horsed Klens. But how because remember Horsed Glens had

1388
01:36:34,520 --> 01:36:37,680
Speaker 2: been in South Africa for years at this point. He

1389
01:36:37,840 --> 01:36:40,800
Speaker 2: escaped from custody in Namibia nineteen eighty nine and he

1390
01:36:40,840 --> 01:36:44,320
Speaker 2: fled back to South Africa. He was arrested again in

1391
01:36:44,360 --> 01:36:46,800
Speaker 2: the summer of nineteen ninety in connection with the Ordo

1392
01:36:46,840 --> 01:36:50,479
Speaker 2: Boro folk bombings, and he didn't end up getting charged

1393
01:36:50,520 --> 01:36:53,760
Speaker 2: with anything, but he spent a while in jail while

1394
01:36:53,840 --> 01:36:57,120
Speaker 2: South African courts tried to figure out if they needed

1395
01:36:57,160 --> 01:37:02,160
Speaker 2: to extradite him to Namibia. He was eventually probably in

1396
01:37:02,400 --> 01:37:05,960
Speaker 2: late nineteen ninety two, released on bond depending a final

1397
01:37:06,040 --> 01:37:12,439
Speaker 2: decision in the extradition matter, and then he disappeared. It

1398
01:37:12,560 --> 01:37:16,720
Speaker 2: is possible, I guess that Glen's could have gone to

1399
01:37:16,800 --> 01:37:20,160
Speaker 2: Bosnia at some point in nineteen ninety three, but I

1400
01:37:20,160 --> 01:37:23,760
Speaker 2: don't think so, because there's a much more likely explanation.

1401
01:37:27,800 --> 01:37:31,600
Speaker 4: Vanley fastings on to Uss not Nice and Sennoseallella that

1402
01:37:32,320 --> 01:37:37,799
Speaker 4: there's some of Ervvre Moule's striker game at Gimenem. Dolphin

1403
01:37:37,920 --> 01:37:39,479
Speaker 4: said Oscar Wolf involvement.

1404
01:37:42,360 --> 01:37:46,160
Speaker 2: That probably didn't mean anything to you. I speak a

1405
01:37:46,160 --> 01:37:49,080
Speaker 2: little German, but that guy's accent was a little tricky

1406
01:37:49,120 --> 01:37:50,720
Speaker 2: for me. I had to ask a friend who was

1407
01:37:50,800 --> 01:37:54,360
Speaker 2: fluent for some help with this one. That's a clip

1408
01:37:54,400 --> 01:37:57,480
Speaker 2: from a segment that aired on a German TV news program,

1409
01:37:58,439 --> 01:38:03,160
Speaker 2: and the man speaking is an unname hotel guest. Unnamed,

1410
01:38:03,680 --> 01:38:08,360
Speaker 2: probably because the hotel in question was a cedy establishment

1411
01:38:08,439 --> 01:38:12,479
Speaker 2: in Hamburg's red light district, and the man is recalling

1412
01:38:12,520 --> 01:38:15,479
Speaker 2: for a reporter from Derspiegel an incident that happened in

1413
01:38:15,600 --> 01:38:20,599
Speaker 2: late October nineteen ninety three. Stephen Rays was thrown out

1414
01:38:20,600 --> 01:38:25,640
Speaker 2: of the hotel after some kind of loud argument and

1415
01:38:25,920 --> 01:38:32,000
Speaker 2: just Stephen Rays. According to researchers from Germany's anti fascist Infoblot,

1416
01:38:32,760 --> 01:38:36,400
Speaker 2: Klen's was also spotted in Hamburg in October of nineteen

1417
01:38:36,479 --> 01:38:37,040
Speaker 2: ninety three.

1418
01:38:38,439 --> 01:38:38,880
Speaker 7: And we know.

1419
01:38:38,920 --> 01:38:41,960
Speaker 2: Stephen Rays did go back to Bosnia after he got

1420
01:38:42,040 --> 01:38:46,520
Speaker 2: kicked out of that CD motel because he deserted in December.

1421
01:38:48,160 --> 01:38:51,160
Speaker 2: So what it looks like to me is that Rays

1422
01:38:51,240 --> 01:38:55,640
Speaker 2: made contact with Klen's in Hamburg in October, and then

1423
01:38:55,640 --> 01:38:58,360
Speaker 2: he went back to Bosnia and told his friends about

1424
01:38:58,360 --> 01:39:03,160
Speaker 2: this exciting new opportunity. All they had to do was

1425
01:39:03,200 --> 01:39:06,040
Speaker 2: steal a bunch of guns and find a way to

1426
01:39:06,040 --> 01:39:10,720
Speaker 2: get to England. What we do know for certain is

1427
01:39:10,720 --> 01:39:14,760
Speaker 2: that all three of those mercenaries left Bosnia on December sixteenth,

1428
01:39:15,360 --> 01:39:20,280
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety three, and on December thirtieth, they robbed a

1429
01:39:20,360 --> 01:39:23,280
Speaker 2: post office in the German city of Lubec, making off

1430
01:39:23,320 --> 01:39:28,799
Speaker 2: with around eighty five hundred Deutsche marks. I don't entirely

1431
01:39:28,840 --> 01:39:32,479
Speaker 2: know how to sort out how much money that is.

1432
01:39:34,200 --> 01:39:37,400
Speaker 2: In nineteen ninety three, one US dollar was equal to

1433
01:39:37,439 --> 01:39:40,840
Speaker 2: about one point six Deutsche marks, so that would make

1434
01:39:40,880 --> 01:39:44,439
Speaker 2: it a little over five thousand dollars, But those are

1435
01:39:44,479 --> 01:39:48,280
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety three dollars, So I guess you could best

1436
01:39:48,400 --> 01:39:52,719
Speaker 2: understand the actual value of this money is around ten

1437
01:39:52,800 --> 01:39:58,920
Speaker 2: thousand US dollars today. Don't email me about math. And

1438
01:39:59,000 --> 01:40:02,400
Speaker 2: with cash in hand, they traveled from Germany to Ramsgate,

1439
01:40:03,160 --> 01:40:05,840
Speaker 2: that little seaside town in England, where members of the

1440
01:40:05,920 --> 01:40:10,120
Speaker 2: League of Saint George drove them to the airport, and

1441
01:40:10,280 --> 01:40:12,760
Speaker 2: just like the mercenaries that would follow them two months later,

1442
01:40:13,640 --> 01:40:17,880
Speaker 2: they were given a name Monica Huggit would pick them

1443
01:40:17,960 --> 01:40:20,240
Speaker 2: up from the airport when they got to South Africa.

1444
01:40:23,960 --> 01:40:27,240
Speaker 2: They arrived on tourist visas in January of nineteen ninety four,

1445
01:40:28,200 --> 01:40:31,920
Speaker 2: and Monica was there as promised to pick them up.

1446
01:40:33,439 --> 01:40:38,200
Speaker 2: She sorted other paperwork and work permits and their mercenary assignments,

1447
01:40:38,240 --> 01:40:42,400
Speaker 2: passing them off to Horst Cleans. They were assigned as

1448
01:40:42,560 --> 01:40:46,800
Speaker 2: armed guards at Radio Pretoria, an illegal radio station that

1449
01:40:46,880 --> 01:40:52,639
Speaker 2: broadcast African nationalist propaganda, and they participated in military drills

1450
01:40:53,040 --> 01:40:59,280
Speaker 2: led by Willem Ratta, a former Rhodesian military officer. Everything

1451
01:40:59,320 --> 01:41:03,919
Speaker 2: seemed to be going according to plan until March fourteenth,

1452
01:41:04,080 --> 01:41:08,320
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety four. By the time the next round of

1453
01:41:08,360 --> 01:41:11,720
Speaker 2: mercenaries arrived a few days later, there was no one

1454
01:41:11,800 --> 01:41:16,480
Speaker 2: there at the airport to greet them. Thomas Konst was dead,

1455
01:41:17,040 --> 01:41:22,639
Speaker 2: and Alexander Nydelin, Horst Cleans, Stephen Rays, and Monica Huggett

1456
01:41:23,439 --> 01:41:27,880
Speaker 2: had all been arrested. I really do hate to leave

1457
01:41:27,880 --> 01:41:31,800
Speaker 2: you hanging again. I promise I'm not dragging this story

1458
01:41:31,840 --> 01:41:35,759
Speaker 2: out on purpose to torment you. I was a little

1459
01:41:35,760 --> 01:41:39,720
Speaker 2: preoccupied this past week, and I'll be entirely otherwise occupied

1460
01:41:39,800 --> 01:41:42,920
Speaker 2: during the week you're hearing this. If you're listening to

1461
01:41:42,960 --> 01:41:45,320
Speaker 2: this on the day it comes out, I am almost

1462
01:41:45,360 --> 01:41:50,439
Speaker 2: certainly sitting in court right now. In October of last year,

1463
01:41:50,479 --> 01:41:53,840
Speaker 2: I did a couple of episodes about Virginia's burning objects law.

1464
01:41:54,800 --> 01:41:57,600
Speaker 2: There was a pair of episodes on Barry Black, the

1465
01:41:57,720 --> 01:42:02,360
Speaker 2: Pennsylvania clansman who challenged Virginia's cross burning statute and eventually

1466
01:42:02,439 --> 01:42:05,680
Speaker 2: won his case at the Supreme Court. And there was

1467
01:42:05,720 --> 01:42:08,000
Speaker 2: a third episode about a man who broke the law

1468
01:42:08,120 --> 01:42:13,640
Speaker 2: Virginia wrote to replace that original crossburning ban. In that episode,

1469
01:42:13,760 --> 01:42:15,880
Speaker 2: I talked a bit about the Nazi torch march that

1470
01:42:15,960 --> 01:42:19,840
Speaker 2: took place here in my hometown of Charlottesville, Virginia on

1471
01:42:19,880 --> 01:42:24,839
Speaker 2: August eleventh, twenty seventeen. The episode was about Tyler Diykes,

1472
01:42:25,520 --> 01:42:27,400
Speaker 2: but he was just one of about a dozen men

1473
01:42:27,439 --> 01:42:30,559
Speaker 2: who've been charged with burning an object with the intent

1474
01:42:30,760 --> 01:42:37,479
Speaker 2: to intimidate. That's the law that replaced the old crossburning statute. Well,

1475
01:42:37,560 --> 01:42:40,240
Speaker 2: this week, another one of those men is taking his

1476
01:42:40,360 --> 01:42:43,559
Speaker 2: case to trial. So I lost a little bit of

1477
01:42:43,560 --> 01:42:45,920
Speaker 2: time this week reviewing the facts so I can be

1478
01:42:46,000 --> 01:42:49,000
Speaker 2: prepared to sit through the trial. And I'm going to

1479
01:42:49,040 --> 01:42:51,920
Speaker 2: lose the entire next week sitting on a wooden bench

1480
01:42:52,080 --> 01:42:56,840
Speaker 2: taking notes by hand. I would love to promise you

1481
01:42:57,080 --> 01:42:59,559
Speaker 2: the final chapter of Monica Hugget's story is going to

1482
01:42:59,560 --> 01:43:03,920
Speaker 2: come next week, but if I'm being realistic, it'll be

1483
01:43:03,960 --> 01:43:07,720
Speaker 2: something else. I've been planning to do, sort of a

1484
01:43:07,840 --> 01:43:11,120
Speaker 2: Q and A episode, so it might be that you

1485
01:43:11,160 --> 01:43:14,440
Speaker 2: can submit questions for that on the Weird Little Guy's subreddit.

1486
01:43:15,439 --> 01:43:19,080
Speaker 2: Just please don't send them to meet anywhere else, Like

1487
01:43:19,120 --> 01:43:22,760
Speaker 2: on any other social media platform, I'll just lose them.

1488
01:43:22,960 --> 01:43:25,439
Speaker 2: So if you have a question, please post it to

1489
01:43:25,479 --> 01:43:29,439
Speaker 2: the subreddit, or if you absolutely for some reason cannot

1490
01:43:29,439 --> 01:43:32,479
Speaker 2: do that, you can email it to me, but nowhere

1491
01:43:32,479 --> 01:43:36,759
Speaker 2: else please, And depending on how things go during the trial,

1492
01:43:37,160 --> 01:43:41,360
Speaker 2: I might have a minisode about the defendant Basilio's pistols.

1493
01:43:42,720 --> 01:43:45,400
Speaker 2: If you're curious about Pistolis, I'll include a link in

1494
01:43:45,439 --> 01:43:47,880
Speaker 2: the show notes to the pro publica article about his

1495
01:43:47,960 --> 01:43:51,360
Speaker 2: discharge from the Marines after he was revealed to be

1496
01:43:51,400 --> 01:43:56,000
Speaker 2: a member of Adam Laffin. So thank you for bearing

1497
01:43:56,040 --> 01:43:58,280
Speaker 2: with me as I tell the story of Monica Stone

1498
01:43:58,280 --> 01:44:02,519
Speaker 2: in these Strange Little Bunks. I've really been enjoying how

1499
01:44:02,600 --> 01:44:05,400
Speaker 2: much digging this one has demanded of me. I just

1500
01:44:05,479 --> 01:44:09,920
Speaker 2: need a little more time to read some very weird

1501
01:44:10,680 --> 01:44:15,040
Speaker 2: racist prophecies before I'm ready to write the last chapter.

1502
01:44:23,600 --> 01:44:26,040
Speaker 2: Weird Little Guys is a production of Cool Zone Media

1503
01:44:26,080 --> 01:44:30,439
Speaker 2: and iHeartRadio. It's researched, written and recorded by me Molly Conger.

1504
01:44:30,880 --> 01:44:34,600
Speaker 2: Our executive producers are Sophie Lichterman and Robert Evans. The

1505
01:44:34,640 --> 01:44:38,080
Speaker 2: show is edited by the wildly talented Rory Gagan. The

1506
01:44:38,080 --> 01:44:41,360
Speaker 2: theme music was composed by Brad Dickert. You can email

1507
01:44:41,439 --> 01:44:44,520
Speaker 2: me at Weird Little Guys podcast at gmail dot com.

1508
01:44:44,640 --> 01:44:47,800
Speaker 2: I will definitely read it, but I almost certainly will

1509
01:44:47,840 --> 01:44:50,920
Speaker 2: not answer it. It's nothing personal. I don't answer any

1510
01:44:50,920 --> 01:44:54,120
Speaker 2: of my emails. You can exchange conspiracy theories about the

1511
01:44:54,120 --> 01:44:56,880
Speaker 2: show with other listeners on the Weird Little Guys subreddit,

1512
01:44:57,800 --> 01:44:59,559
Speaker 2: just don't post anything that's going to make you one

1513
01:44:59,600 --> 01:45:00,599
Speaker 2: of my weird Blue Guys