1
00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:04,400
Speaker 1: The president's greatest responsibility is to protect all our people

2
00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:08,360
Speaker 1: from enemies foreign and domestic. Here at home, the worst

3
00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:11,640
Speaker 1: enemy we face is economic the creeping erosion of the

4
00:00:11,680 --> 00:00:14,600
Speaker 1: American way of life and the American dream that has

5
00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:18,760
Speaker 1: resulted in today's tragedy of economic stagnation and unemployment.

6
00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:21,920
Speaker 2: One of the great debates of our time is about

7
00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:24,439
Speaker 2: how much of your money should be spent by the

8
00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:27,480
Speaker 2: state and how much you should keep to spend on

9
00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:32,919
Speaker 2: your family. Let us never forget this fundamental truth. The

10
00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:37,400
Speaker 2: state has no source of money other than the money

11
00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:39,440
Speaker 2: people earned themselves.

12
00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:43,640
Speaker 3: Little trip back in time there to the unmistakable voices

13
00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:48,120
Speaker 3: of Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher, and whether you agreed

14
00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:51,800
Speaker 3: or disagreed with them, there is no doubt the ideas

15
00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:55,080
Speaker 3: of the conservative movements they led in the US and

16
00:00:55,320 --> 00:01:01,640
Speaker 3: UK dominated the policy agenda for years on foreign policy

17
00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:06,360
Speaker 3: and the role of government in people's lives. Here we

18
00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:09,840
Speaker 3: are decades later, and conservatives on both sides of the

19
00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:13,720
Speaker 3: Atlantic still echo Reagan and Thatcher on some things, including

20
00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:19,040
Speaker 3: low taxes. But today's loudest conservative voices, like Donald Trump

21
00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:23,800
Speaker 3: and Boris Johnson, have far different priorities and a much

22
00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:28,760
Speaker 3: different sound. On day one, we will begin working.

23
00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:37,760
Speaker 1: On an impenetrable, physical, tall, powerful, beautiful southern border wall.

24
00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:40,039
Speaker 4: And we're gonna get home with all one nation program,

25
00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:42,280
Speaker 4: aren't we. That's what we can do. That's what we

26
00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:44,120
Speaker 4: can do if we get Brexit dug. But we can

27
00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:46,160
Speaker 4: only do it if we get Brexit dug. That is

28
00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:48,760
Speaker 4: what one Nation Conservatives do. That is our vision for

29
00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:49,560
Speaker 4: the country to the.

30
00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:54,600
Speaker 3: Niceteen Bloomberg Opinions. Global business columnist Adrian Wooldridge argues in

31
00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:58,920
Speaker 3: a new column that conservatives hard turn toward populism and

32
00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:02,000
Speaker 3: the politics of anger have left Tories in the UK

33
00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:05,960
Speaker 3: and Republicans in the US far from the ideas that

34
00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:11,600
Speaker 3: shaped the Anglo American conservative movement, and not necessarily for

35
00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:12,120
Speaker 3: the better.

36
00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:15,360
Speaker 5: The old conservatism has been replaced by a new and

37
00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:18,400
Speaker 5: much more unstable sort of conservatism that is all to

38
00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:23,120
Speaker 5: do with the nation state, national conservativism, expanding the role

39
00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:27,120
Speaker 5: of the state, tapping into cultural resentments.

40
00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:31,000
Speaker 3: And he asks, can conservatism find itself.

41
00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:34,200
Speaker 5: Again, basically to have a conservative party or a Republican

42
00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:37,760
Speaker 5: party that goes back to some of the older traditions,

43
00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:42,880
Speaker 5: such as respect for tradition, respect for institutions, respect for

44
00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:44,880
Speaker 5: decency and behavior.

45
00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:55,239
Speaker 3: I'm WESTKESOVA today on the big take Adrian Woodridge and

46
00:02:55,440 --> 00:03:05,560
Speaker 3: where Conservatives go from here. Adrian, it's nice to see you,

47
00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:08,040
Speaker 3: very nice to be here. And I think it's fitting

48
00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:10,840
Speaker 3: that I'm sitting here in Washington, DC and you're in

49
00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:16,320
Speaker 3: London because we are talking about conservatives in the UK

50
00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:17,680
Speaker 3: and in the US.

51
00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:21,440
Speaker 5: Yes, a transatlantic meeting to discuss a transatlantic movement.

52
00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:23,320
Speaker 3: What made you want to write about this? When I

53
00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:27,079
Speaker 3: think about summer reading, it's not really going back into

54
00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:29,280
Speaker 3: the history of conservatism.

55
00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:31,239
Speaker 5: I wrote this because I've been thinking for a long

56
00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:35,160
Speaker 5: time about how conservatism in both the United States and

57
00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:37,920
Speaker 5: in Britain is in the crisis. Then we saw all

58
00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:42,600
Speaker 5: these interesting data points. Parliaments held Boris Johnson in contempt

59
00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:46,600
Speaker 5: of Parliament for lying to Parliament over various parties that

60
00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:48,520
Speaker 5: he had during lockdown.

61
00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:51,280
Speaker 2: The Eyes to the Right three hundred and fifty four,

62
00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:53,800
Speaker 2: the Nose to the left seventh.

63
00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:57,720
Speaker 5: Then we have Trump being put on trial for purloining

64
00:03:58,000 --> 00:03:59,080
Speaker 5: various Topsy.

65
00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:02,120
Speaker 6: Document confirmed this hour that Donald Trump and his lawyers

66
00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:04,880
Speaker 6: have just been informed about twenty minutes ago that the

67
00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:07,200
Speaker 6: former president needs to be at a federal court in

68
00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:10,760
Speaker 6: Miami on Tuesday at three pm to be processed on

69
00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:11,880
Speaker 6: federal charges.

70
00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:12,800
Speaker 3: This, of course would be.

71
00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:16,400
Speaker 5: So all of these these sort of crises going on, well,

72
00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:20,040
Speaker 5: this isn't just a series of arbitrary events. It's something

73
00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:23,640
Speaker 5: that points to bigger patterns of the breakdown of the

74
00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:26,480
Speaker 5: conservative movement. So I decided to say what is going

75
00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:30,000
Speaker 5: on here? And it struck me also that conservatism has

76
00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:33,600
Speaker 5: changed in a very radical and fundamental way. That back

77
00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:36,640
Speaker 5: in the nineteen eighties, when Conservatism was sort of triumphant

78
00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:41,040
Speaker 5: around the world under Reagan and Thatcher, consertism stood for

79
00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:43,280
Speaker 5: a series of things such as small government.

80
00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:48,080
Speaker 1: In this present crisis, government is not the solution to

81
00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:49,359
Speaker 1: our problem.

82
00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:54,479
Speaker 7: Government is the problem.

83
00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:56,200
Speaker 5: Such as letting business do its own thing, such as

84
00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:59,360
Speaker 5: standing up to global communism.

85
00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:02,880
Speaker 8: As the modeled arguments of those who've been induced to

86
00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:07,479
Speaker 8: believe that Russia's intentions are benign and that ours are suspect.

87
00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:10,880
Speaker 8: All who would have us simply give up our defenses

88
00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:15,000
Speaker 8: and the hope that where we led, others would follow.

89
00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:19,000
Speaker 5: These were things that made sense within the conservative tradition,

90
00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:23,080
Speaker 5: but were also very well related to the problems that

91
00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:26,279
Speaker 5: we're facing. The world. Now conservatism has almost stood on

92
00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:29,680
Speaker 5: its head. We have doubts about smaller government, we have

93
00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:34,480
Speaker 5: certainly big doubts about going abroad to thi terrorism, and

94
00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:37,800
Speaker 5: a sense that the Conservative Party had become in many

95
00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:42,640
Speaker 5: ways anti business parties. So the problems with Conservatism are

96
00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:46,719
Speaker 5: not just problems to do with a few individuals, and

97
00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:50,320
Speaker 5: they're not just problems entirely just to do with populism,

98
00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:53,120
Speaker 5: the sort of Trump and Boris Johnson sort of populism.

99
00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:55,960
Speaker 5: They're to do with something more fundamental, something to do

100
00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:59,800
Speaker 5: with a change in nature of conservatism that the old conservatism,

101
00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:04,400
Speaker 5: conservatism is of small governments, standing up to communism, letting

102
00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:07,520
Speaker 5: business have its head, has been replaced by a new

103
00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:10,680
Speaker 5: and much more unstable sort of conservatism. There's all to

104
00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:15,599
Speaker 5: do with the nation state, national conservativism, expanding the role

105
00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:20,200
Speaker 5: of the state, tapping into cultural resentments. So I wanted

106
00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:21,440
Speaker 5: to try and explain.

107
00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:25,000
Speaker 3: That, Adrian. It's interesting then you mentioned Ronald Reagan and

108
00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:28,480
Speaker 3: Margaret Thatcher, because during the eighties when they were both

109
00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:31,600
Speaker 3: in power, it seemed like a lot of the intellectual

110
00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:35,719
Speaker 3: energy was on the right, where the right was coming

111
00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:37,400
Speaker 3: up with the big ideas.

112
00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:41,480
Speaker 5: Absolutely, I mean, the thing about Ronald Reagan and missus

113
00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:44,440
Speaker 5: Thatcher is that they were absolutely in tune with the

114
00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:47,159
Speaker 5: mood of the times, which was that the state was

115
00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:50,360
Speaker 5: too big, we needed to cut it back, that business

116
00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:53,880
Speaker 5: was too confined, we needed to give it more freedom,

117
00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:56,960
Speaker 5: and that the big issue was how to have a

118
00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:00,400
Speaker 5: muscular response to the Soviet Union and as it was then,

119
00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:03,960
Speaker 5: Soviet expansionism. So it was in tune with the times.

120
00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:07,039
Speaker 5: But all of these things, shrinking the state, having a

121
00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:12,520
Speaker 5: muscular defense, being pro business were in tune with very deep,

122
00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:17,160
Speaker 5: longstanding conservative values. So conservatism seemed to be the answer

123
00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:21,600
Speaker 5: to the problems. And there was an enormous ferment of ideas,

124
00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:24,520
Speaker 5: very many debates, as you say, but all of the

125
00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:28,080
Speaker 5: intellectual energy of that period was on the right, and

126
00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:31,360
Speaker 5: the left was simply responding to the right's ideas. After there,

127
00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:34,200
Speaker 5: when Tony Blair comes along in Britain and Bill Clinton

128
00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:38,360
Speaker 5: comes along in the United States, they basically adapt and

129
00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:42,600
Speaker 5: adopt the framework that Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan laid down.

130
00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:44,840
Speaker 5: They make it a bit more human, smiley faced than

131
00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:47,240
Speaker 5: the rest of it, but they don't really interfere with

132
00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:51,480
Speaker 5: the fundamental principles that have been laid down. It's astonishing

133
00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:53,720
Speaker 5: to think back on the nineteen nineties as how much

134
00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:57,440
Speaker 5: the Republicans hated Bill Clinton, because actually he was really

135
00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:00,000
Speaker 5: a Republican in all sorts of ways. He was certainly

136
00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:02,280
Speaker 5: more conservative than Dwight Eisenhower.

137
00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:06,240
Speaker 1: Today we have an historic opportunity to make welfare what

138
00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:09,440
Speaker 1: it was meant to be, a second chance, not a

139
00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:10,120
Speaker 1: way of life.

140
00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:13,240
Speaker 5: He believed in cutting the size of the state. The

141
00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:16,880
Speaker 5: age of big government is over. He believed in welfare reform,

142
00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:20,960
Speaker 5: education reform, taking on various sorts of vested interests within

143
00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:24,200
Speaker 5: the left. But he also believed in freeing up the markets,

144
00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:28,520
Speaker 5: particularly freeing up the financial markets for capital for financial

145
00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:32,440
Speaker 5: and business interests. So he was very conservative Fick, and

146
00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:33,760
Speaker 5: the same with Tony Blair.

147
00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:37,640
Speaker 7: We believe in our relationship with business and industry there

148
00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:41,880
Speaker 7: is a third way, a new way between some command economy,

149
00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:45,200
Speaker 7: state control of industry, and the politics of laisse fair.

150
00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:49,880
Speaker 7: This third way seeks a partnership between government and business,

151
00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:54,520
Speaker 7: but this time limited to certain key specific objectives whose

152
00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:58,160
Speaker 7: aim is not to undermine the market, but to enhance

153
00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:00,520
Speaker 7: the dynamism of the market.

154
00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:04,440
Speaker 5: One of the quotations that's associated with Tony ba from

155
00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:08,199
Speaker 5: Peter Mandelsson is that I'm intensely relaxed about people getting

156
00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:11,040
Speaker 5: filthy rich. You know, this was a very different age

157
00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:13,880
Speaker 5: from the one we're living through at the moment, and

158
00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:19,840
Speaker 5: hence the problems that this synthesis, this Blair Clinton Reagan

159
00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:25,760
Speaker 5: Thatcher synthesis created. Then those ideas begin to fall apart

160
00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:28,880
Speaker 5: or begin to be tested in all sorts of interesting ways.

161
00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:32,080
Speaker 5: And it's really the falling apart of the Thatcher Reagan

162
00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:36,800
Speaker 5: consensus or synthesis that prepares the way for populism.

163
00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:40,240
Speaker 3: And so you write about this pivot, this sort of

164
00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:43,160
Speaker 3: turn where even though the ideas and the right had

165
00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:46,480
Speaker 3: seemingly won, it began to unravel.

166
00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:52,240
Speaker 5: Nonetheless, Yep, it collided with reality and it completely unraveled.

167
00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:55,679
Speaker 5: It unraveled first in terms of practical experience, that people

168
00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:58,760
Speaker 5: began to get angry that their incomes were stagnating, and

169
00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:02,360
Speaker 5: they began to be angry that the endless wars were

170
00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:06,520
Speaker 5: not producing the promise benefits whilst imposing costs on poorer people.

171
00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:09,680
Speaker 5: And they got angry that the rich were getting richer.

172
00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:13,000
Speaker 5: And that particularly happens with the financial crisis when you

173
00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:16,679
Speaker 5: have a huge systemic crisis in the financial system, the

174
00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:19,640
Speaker 5: costs of which are borne by mortgage holders and certainly

175
00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:21,800
Speaker 5: not by the bankers who caused the problem in the

176
00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:26,240
Speaker 5: first place. So you then get an upsurge. An upsurge

177
00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:29,720
Speaker 5: first of all in popular opinion that people began to

178
00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:32,440
Speaker 5: get angry with what's going on. So you have the

179
00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:37,240
Speaker 5: arrival of populace. Populace saying that this system, this synthesis,

180
00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:38,360
Speaker 5: must be torn apart.

181
00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:41,480
Speaker 3: And at the heart of this seems to be the

182
00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:46,400
Speaker 3: idea of grievance that someone is to blame for the

183
00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:49,400
Speaker 3: ills in your life and they need to be held

184
00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:52,960
Speaker 3: to account. In the US, with the rise of Donald

185
00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:56,480
Speaker 3: Trump and in the UK with the sentiment over Brexit,

186
00:10:56,679 --> 00:10:59,840
Speaker 3: there seemed to be a very big focus on immigrants

187
00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:03,120
Speaker 3: who were coming to take your job, as opposed to

188
00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:06,439
Speaker 3: elites who were rigging the system.

189
00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:08,200
Speaker 5: I think there's a bit of both, actually, but the

190
00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:11,880
Speaker 5: immigrants are certainly very very important. The idea is that

191
00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:15,640
Speaker 5: there's a big influx of people, that those people will

192
00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:19,600
Speaker 5: either take your jobs or reduce the price of labor,

193
00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:23,160
Speaker 5: reduce your wages. In the United States, you have a

194
00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:26,320
Speaker 5: surge of immigration from South of the border, although that

195
00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:28,560
Speaker 5: immigration has been going on obviously for a long time

196
00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:31,319
Speaker 5: and in large numbers in Britain. Because of the accession

197
00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:35,640
Speaker 5: of countries such as Poland into the European Union and

198
00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:38,600
Speaker 5: the system of free movement that the European Union allows,

199
00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:43,120
Speaker 5: you get a big surge of mainly Polish immigrants into

200
00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:46,000
Speaker 5: the economy. On the subject of who their grievance is

201
00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:49,880
Speaker 5: directed against, there's certainly grievance against the immigrants, but there's

202
00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:53,480
Speaker 5: the question of who is responsible for this, particularly in Britain,

203
00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:57,520
Speaker 5: and the people who held responsible are the the faceless

204
00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:01,480
Speaker 5: elites who've allowed this big immigration to take place, who

205
00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:04,560
Speaker 5: have taken control of our borders away from us and

206
00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:07,800
Speaker 5: given it to the European Union. So the elites are

207
00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:12,040
Speaker 5: being held responsible and accountable for a lot of decisions

208
00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:15,559
Speaker 5: that they've made in the past. So it's grievance, its anger,

209
00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:19,520
Speaker 5: it's populism, but the elites are certainly in the frame.

210
00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:25,440
Speaker 3: And so when these populace took charge in the UK

211
00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:28,719
Speaker 3: and in the US, what's also really interesting is they

212
00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:33,040
Speaker 3: didn't directly attack a lot of the problems that people

213
00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:36,800
Speaker 3: said they wanted, for instance, with tax cuts. Tax cuts

214
00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:40,120
Speaker 3: went to the top as opposed to going to the bottom.

215
00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:45,160
Speaker 3: It perpetuated the Reagan Thatcher idea that cutting taxes at

216
00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:47,839
Speaker 3: the top will trickle down to the rest of us.

217
00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:52,720
Speaker 5: Absolutely, and that's partly because these conservatives are a coalition

218
00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:55,800
Speaker 5: of different interests as the populaces who come along and

219
00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:58,319
Speaker 5: under the new people, but there's also the old elites

220
00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:01,240
Speaker 5: or the old wings of those parties who want to

221
00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:05,199
Speaker 5: continue with the Reagan Thatcher policies that you have before.

222
00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:07,319
Speaker 5: So you have a weird coalition on the one hand

223
00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:10,360
Speaker 5: where populists will help the poor. On the other hand,

224
00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:13,320
Speaker 5: you know, we're the party of business and will help business.

225
00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:15,800
Speaker 5: And this is particularly extraordinary in the case of Trump,

226
00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:19,080
Speaker 5: because Trump talks about building the wall. No wall was built.

227
00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:22,160
Speaker 5: He hadn't talked about lowering taxes for the rich, but

228
00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:24,960
Speaker 5: he certainly did that. And in Britain you have the

229
00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:28,040
Speaker 5: same thing, on the one hand, taking back control on

230
00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:32,320
Speaker 5: behalf of poorer people, on the other hand continuing with

231
00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:36,280
Speaker 5: tax cutting policies. So particularly with Boris Johnson, Boris Johnson

232
00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:40,080
Speaker 5: is a very interesting person here because Boris Johnson declares

233
00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:43,200
Speaker 5: that his policy is to have his cake and eat it,

234
00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:46,199
Speaker 5: and so what he does is to increase public spending

235
00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:48,800
Speaker 5: in order to deliver all the benefits that he's claimed

236
00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:52,400
Speaker 5: that Brexit will deliver for the poor or the less

237
00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:57,040
Speaker 5: well off. But he also continues with a tax cutting

238
00:13:57,360 --> 00:13:59,560
Speaker 5: and what that does, of course is push up borrowing

239
00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:03,120
Speaker 5: and enormously annoy his chancellor, who lives next door in Britain,

240
00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:05,880
Speaker 5: and creates a lot of tension between the then Chancellor

241
00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:08,600
Speaker 5: Rishi Sunak and Boris Johnson. As one of the subtexts

242
00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:11,679
Speaker 5: this constant fight between the chancellor who doesn't believe that

243
00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:14,120
Speaker 5: there's a magic money train you can cut taxes or

244
00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:18,479
Speaker 5: keep taxes low and increase public spending, ad infinitum.

245
00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:22,280
Speaker 3: After the break, populous take aim at what Adrian calls

246
00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:33,680
Speaker 3: the pointy headed elites. I always thought that Donald Trump

247
00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:37,080
Speaker 3: had won great luxury as a president, which was that

248
00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:40,640
Speaker 3: his policies, especially having to do with the economy and

249
00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:44,560
Speaker 3: tax cuts, didn't necessarily help the people who voted for

250
00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:49,760
Speaker 3: him the most, and yet they really loved him because

251
00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:51,680
Speaker 3: he addressed other issues.

252
00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:56,520
Speaker 5: Absolutely, I think that the politics is increasingly not just

253
00:14:56,600 --> 00:15:00,360
Speaker 5: about material things. It's increasingly about sort of your sense

254
00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:03,680
Speaker 5: of yourself. It's about your sense of dignity. It's about

255
00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:06,600
Speaker 5: the sense that you're being listened to, and it's about

256
00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:09,440
Speaker 5: the sense that you're not being looked down upon. So

257
00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:12,600
Speaker 5: in Britain with Brexit, a lot of what drove it

258
00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:15,560
Speaker 5: was the idea that pointy headed elites looked down on you.

259
00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:18,440
Speaker 5: And the more that those pointy headed elites said that

260
00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:20,880
Speaker 5: Brexit would be an economic disaster, which it has been,

261
00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:23,080
Speaker 5: the more people said, well, you're saying that because you

262
00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:25,760
Speaker 5: look down on us, and so they continue to rally

263
00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:28,640
Speaker 5: behind Brexit. Well, Trump had that in spades because he

264
00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:32,760
Speaker 5: didn't really, as we've said, deliver on the wall and

265
00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:34,840
Speaker 5: the rest of it. He did deliver on tax cuts,

266
00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:39,320
Speaker 5: but he acted like this blue collar billionaire, as he said,

267
00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:41,600
Speaker 5: you know, he had all these blue collar tastes. He

268
00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:45,680
Speaker 5: acted in this sort of offensive rather matcho way, and

269
00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:48,680
Speaker 5: people thought that he was just like an ordinary bloke.

270
00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:51,680
Speaker 5: And again the more that the elites were defended by

271
00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:56,960
Speaker 5: this pattern of behavior, the more his troops rallied behind him. Now,

272
00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:01,280
Speaker 5: this has left the Republican Party with a very concern problem, essentially,

273
00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:04,400
Speaker 5: because your system is more responsive to the grassroots than

274
00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:08,200
Speaker 5: our system. Boris Johnson was eventually got rid of primarily

275
00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:09,160
Speaker 5: by his MPs.

276
00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:12,080
Speaker 4: It moves so how sad I am to be giving

277
00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:14,600
Speaker 4: up the best job in the world.

278
00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:20,000
Speaker 5: Who wouldn't tolerate his behavior, his lying, his lad mouth

279
00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:23,480
Speaker 5: bluster anymore. So they had the mechanism to get rid

280
00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:27,120
Speaker 5: of him, because members of parliament can vote out their leader.

281
00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:29,520
Speaker 5: The leader of the party serves at the pleasure of

282
00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:32,760
Speaker 5: members of parliament. In the United States, the presidential system,

283
00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:36,200
Speaker 5: you can't do that. So many many people, money people,

284
00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:41,320
Speaker 5: senior Republicans, congressional people would like, would desperately like to

285
00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:43,720
Speaker 5: get rid of Trump, but as long as he's popular

286
00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:46,800
Speaker 5: with the party base, with the primary voters, they can't

287
00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:47,160
Speaker 5: do that.

288
00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:51,360
Speaker 3: You mentioned something important, which is people didn't like the

289
00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:54,600
Speaker 3: idea that they were being looked down upon, and you

290
00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:58,480
Speaker 3: write that it also as an extension of that has

291
00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:02,720
Speaker 3: been about people who used to be in charge. They

292
00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:06,320
Speaker 3: were the ones who were dominant in society. They were

293
00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:09,040
Speaker 3: on tapp. No longer feel that way that others are

294
00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:10,719
Speaker 3: coming in to take their place.

295
00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:14,280
Speaker 5: Yes, so it's a very complicated story for conservatives because

296
00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:17,840
Speaker 5: many people at the heart of the conservative establishment and

297
00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:21,080
Speaker 5: of the Republicans establishments in the United States are being

298
00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:26,120
Speaker 5: pushed aside by powerful global forces. Used to have sort

299
00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:30,080
Speaker 5: of local business people, chamber of commerce, people as very

300
00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:33,679
Speaker 5: powerful people within the Conservative Party or the Republican Party.

301
00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:37,040
Speaker 5: People who are sort of who run a local factory,

302
00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:40,040
Speaker 5: who run a local law firm, who are the sort

303
00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:42,520
Speaker 5: of the pillars of the local community. They felt that

304
00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:44,600
Speaker 5: they were in charge of their communities, and they also

305
00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:47,480
Speaker 5: felt that they were well represented by their party. Now

306
00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:49,879
Speaker 5: they're being pushed aside by a complex set of people.

307
00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:53,720
Speaker 5: That's partly big business, which is replacing small business. So

308
00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:57,560
Speaker 5: they've got giant global law firms replacing local law firms.

309
00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:02,680
Speaker 5: You've got great giant global corporations replacing local corporations. People

310
00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:06,199
Speaker 5: such as the economist Thomas Piketty calls the Brahman elite.

311
00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:09,560
Speaker 5: These are the people who go to the Ivy League universities,

312
00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:13,520
Speaker 5: go to Oxford and Cambridge, work in the professions. Those

313
00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:16,840
Speaker 5: people are increasingly turning against the Republican Party or the

314
00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:20,200
Speaker 5: Conservative Party, and so there's a sense that people who

315
00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:23,919
Speaker 5: used to run the show are being displaced. So on

316
00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:27,200
Speaker 5: the one hand, I said that populism earlier was powered

317
00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:29,400
Speaker 5: by a lot of people who let felt left behind,

318
00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:32,159
Speaker 5: particularly working class people. But there's also a sense of

319
00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:36,240
Speaker 5: these middle class people stallworts of old fashioned conservatives and

320
00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:39,440
Speaker 5: I'm sure supporters of Ronald Reagan and missus Thatcher who

321
00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:42,720
Speaker 5: feel that they're no longer in charge of their countries.

322
00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:48,119
Speaker 3: More than five hundred bills restricting the rights of LGBTQ

323
00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:50,760
Speaker 3: plus people have been introduced across the country this year.

324
00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:53,560
Speaker 3: Seventy seven of those bills. We also see in the

325
00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:58,800
Speaker 3: US a very hard turn against LGBTQ people, big movement

326
00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:03,960
Speaker 3: against abortions, these culture war issues that have taken the

327
00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:08,160
Speaker 3: place of economic issues and other sort of policies when

328
00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:10,240
Speaker 3: it comes to animating voters.

329
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:14,399
Speaker 5: Absolutely, if you look at Thatcher and Reagan, Thatcher really

330
00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:18,120
Speaker 5: didn't care about these sort of social issues. Shoes all

331
00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:22,560
Speaker 5: about economics, and she was actually extremely liberal with her

332
00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:25,840
Speaker 5: cabinet ministers, many of whom had all sorts of affairs

333
00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:29,560
Speaker 5: and love children and issues such as that. And Ronald Reagan,

334
00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:32,720
Speaker 5: although he claimed because the evangelical Christian right is very

335
00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:35,800
Speaker 5: important for the Conservative coalition, although he claimed to be

336
00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:39,080
Speaker 5: very concerned about abortion, he didn't really do anything about it.

337
00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:43,840
Speaker 5: He focused again on economic issues. Now, the current wave

338
00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:47,280
Speaker 5: of Republicans and conservatives is very different from that. They

339
00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:51,720
Speaker 5: put culture issues right at the center of what's going on,

340
00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:56,200
Speaker 5: and they put the selection of Supreme Court judges who

341
00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:58,880
Speaker 5: sit in judgment about a lot of these things really

342
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:02,040
Speaker 5: high up in the list of priorities. So Trump, we

343
00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:04,800
Speaker 5: said that he didn't do that much for his voters. Well,

344
00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:06,919
Speaker 5: he didn't do that much for his voters economically, but

345
00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:08,920
Speaker 5: on the culture issue he did do a lot.

346
00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:11,359
Speaker 3: We're talking about all of this, of course in the

347
00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:14,159
Speaker 3: context of the US in the UK, but we're seeing

348
00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:17,680
Speaker 3: this in many other places too. We've of course seen

349
00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:22,239
Speaker 3: it in Hungary, in Poland, in Greece very recently and

350
00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:26,199
Speaker 3: waiting in the wings in France, in Germany and in

351
00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:30,600
Speaker 3: other places. And so this sentiment, this populist right wing

352
00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:34,720
Speaker 3: sentiment is present really across Europe now.

353
00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:37,159
Speaker 5: Oh absolutely. And again it has the same things. It

354
00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:40,840
Speaker 5: has a very strong cultural element that this emphasis on

355
00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:43,360
Speaker 5: minority rights has gone too far. It has a very

356
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:47,840
Speaker 5: big anti business sentiment that the business serves a tiny elite,

357
00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:51,959
Speaker 5: not masses, and a very strong, of course, nationalist element.

358
00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:57,160
Speaker 5: It's nationalist conservatism rather than globalist conservatism. You can see Italy,

359
00:20:57,240 --> 00:20:59,200
Speaker 5: I think has just shifted yet more to the right.

360
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:03,399
Speaker 9: Rome Italy about to see the country's most right wing

361
00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:07,359
Speaker 9: government since World War Two, Georgia Maloney. She is the

362
00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:10,359
Speaker 9: leader of the Brothers of Italy party and.

363
00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:12,240
Speaker 5: She is the biggest of the most interesting of these

364
00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:18,280
Speaker 5: shifts is France, where the National Front has been slowly, slowly,

365
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:22,240
Speaker 5: slowly increasing its vote with every election.

366
00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:26,639
Speaker 3: President Emmanuel Macarol has warned nothing is impossible, as Poles

367
00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:29,320
Speaker 3: suggests that his far right rival Marine La Penn is

368
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:32,120
Speaker 3: closer than ever before to winning the presidency.

369
00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:35,280
Speaker 5: And it would not surprise me if in the lex

370
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:38,119
Speaker 5: presidential election, Marine Lea Penn finally gets what she's been

371
00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:40,679
Speaker 5: looking for for decades and wins it. And you know,

372
00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:43,359
Speaker 5: we've recently seen big, big riots in France. But again

373
00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:46,160
Speaker 5: it's a sense that the country is out of control.

374
00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:54,240
Speaker 5: Forces of globalism, of disorder, of immigration, violence are taking

375
00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:57,359
Speaker 5: over and we need to take back control by having

376
00:21:57,359 --> 00:21:58,960
Speaker 5: a strong man to do it.

377
00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:02,840
Speaker 3: When we come back, a different way forward for the

378
00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:17,480
Speaker 3: conservative movement, Adrian, after defining the nature of this new

379
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:21,199
Speaker 3: very muscular populism, you then go on to write that

380
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:25,320
Speaker 3: it hasn't really been very good for conservatism. Why do

381
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:26,520
Speaker 3: you say that.

382
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:30,720
Speaker 5: I say this partly because populism, muscular populism, is not

383
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:34,600
Speaker 5: my personal politics, but also because it's not solving the

384
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:37,960
Speaker 5: problems that it cames to address. So Brexit claimed to

385
00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:41,760
Speaker 5: take back control. Not only is it not taken back control.

386
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:45,080
Speaker 5: You know, we see the problem with illegal refugees continuing,

387
00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:48,359
Speaker 5: it's a global problem. But we also see the British

388
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:53,680
Speaker 5: economy suffering very significantly from Brexit, and we also see

389
00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:57,200
Speaker 5: small businesses, which were really at the forefront of anxieties

390
00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:00,520
Speaker 5: about the old economy, actually suffering more than big businesses.

391
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:03,040
Speaker 5: Big businesses have got the muscle to take on a

392
00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:07,960
Speaker 5: more complicated trading system. Smaller businesses are drowning under paperwork

393
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:11,200
Speaker 5: that's been created by moving out of the ear. We've seen,

394
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,960
Speaker 5: of course, Trump not addressing the economic problems of poorer people,

395
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:18,680
Speaker 5: and I think that the solution is not to ignore

396
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:22,680
Speaker 5: the noises the complaints, but to have much more tailored

397
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:28,520
Speaker 5: economic policies which address the economic plight of poorer people,

398
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:32,480
Speaker 5: to take their concerns about their dignity and status much

399
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,359
Speaker 5: more seriously than we have. But also basically to have

400
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:38,480
Speaker 5: a conservative party or a Republican party that goes back

401
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:42,800
Speaker 5: to some of the older traditions, such as respect for tradition,

402
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:49,160
Speaker 5: respect for institutions, respect for decency in behavior, and respect

403
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:51,399
Speaker 5: for the sort of the given take, which is the

404
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:54,720
Speaker 5: essence of a liberal society. So not quite going back

405
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:58,320
Speaker 5: to Reagan and Thatcher, but going back to the twin

406
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:00,879
Speaker 5: questions of how do we get the economy working for

407
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:04,000
Speaker 5: the majority of people rather than through a minoritive, but

408
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:08,960
Speaker 5: also how do we restore the checks and balances, the dignities,

409
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,720
Speaker 5: the decent behavior that ought to be at the hearts

410
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 5: of a successful liberal political regime.

411
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,919
Speaker 3: Are conservative politicians going to want to return to an

412
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:22,920
Speaker 3: idea where they're debating ideas, where there is much more

413
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:26,640
Speaker 3: civil discourse. It seems like, if anything, we're moving very

414
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:28,119
Speaker 3: quickly in the opposite direction.

415
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:31,440
Speaker 5: I think there's a big difference between the United States

416
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:37,240
Speaker 5: and Britain at the moment. In Britain you have very sensible,

417
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 5: centrist conservative prime minister in the form of Rishi Sunac,

418
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:45,640
Speaker 5: who has a very different style, a very different temperament,

419
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 5: and a very different set of policies from Boris Johnson.

420
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:54,159
Speaker 5: And Boris Johnson's nationalist, populist conservativism is at the moment

421
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:59,000
Speaker 5: fairly solidly defeated. Whether it comes back or not is

422
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 5: a very interesting interesting question. I suspect that if the

423
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 5: Tory Party loses the next election, well it loses not terribly,

424
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,919
Speaker 5: then it remains a centrist sort of party and it

425
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 5: will look to put together a sort of centrist coalition.

426
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 5: If it loses badly, I it's humiliated in the polls,

427
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 5: then you will have a further shift to the populace right.

428
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,160
Speaker 5: They say Boris should come back, or somebody swell a Bravaman,

429
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,200
Speaker 5: his current Home Secretary and very right wing should come

430
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,480
Speaker 5: back in that way. In the United States, as far

431
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:31,600
Speaker 5: as I can see, at the moment, you know Trump

432
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 5: is leading the pack, although his legal problems may make

433
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 5: that difficult. But then again, as far as I can see,

434
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 5: the number two person is Desantas, who is very much

435
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:45,679
Speaker 5: in the same sort of sort of camp, fighting for

436
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:48,160
Speaker 5: the same sort of voters. And you do have structurally,

437
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 5: because of the primary system, a system which gives an

438
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 5: enormous amount of power to the most engaged or the

439
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:59,639
Speaker 5: most right wing commentators. So I see an effluorescence of

440
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 5: idea is, many of which I disagree with. I see

441
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:06,439
Speaker 5: an efflorescence of populist sentiments in the United States or

442
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,680
Speaker 5: continuing populist anger in the United States, and a more

443
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 5: complicated position in Britain which could pull British conservatism away

444
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:18,200
Speaker 5: from the very Trumpian American conservatism.

445
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 3: Adrian, thanks so much for coming on the show.

446
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:21,960
Speaker 5: Thank you very much.

447
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:24,960
Speaker 3: Thanks for listening to us here at The Big Take.

448
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 3: It's a daily podcast from Bloomberg and iHeartRadio. For more

449
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:32,720
Speaker 3: shows from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

450
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,360
Speaker 3: wherever you listen, and we'd love to hear from you.

451
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 3: Email us questions or comments to Big Take at Bloomberg

452
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,639
Speaker 3: dot net. The supervising producer of The Big Take is

453
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 3: Vicky Virgolino. Our senior producer is Catherine Fink. Frederica Romanello

454
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:52,280
Speaker 3: is our producer. Our associate producer is Zenebsidiki. Hilde Garcia

455
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 3: is our engineer. Our original music was composed by Leo Sidrin.

456
00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 3: I'm west Kasova. We'll be back tomorrow with another Big Take.

457
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 6: H