Speaker 1: The only way in and out was through a steel
Speaker 1: trap door with a lock on the outside, in a
Speaker 1: closet hidden under I think it was a dresser or something.
Speaker 1: He walled it off with cement blocks and soundproofing. You
Speaker 1: would only know it was there if you knew it
Speaker 1: was there.
Speaker 2: I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal, a show about
Speaker 2: the people we trust the most and the deceptions that
Speaker 2: change everything. This is part two of Donnielle's story. If
Speaker 2: you haven't heard part one, you should go back and
Speaker 2: listen to that first. Donnielle Oliver Chauve woke up in
Speaker 2: the middle of the night on February eighth, twenty seventeen,
Speaker 2: to find her house swarmed with police and FBI agents.
Speaker 1: Something's happening and I have no idea why there's state
Speaker 1: police in my house with a gunpoint at me. So
Speaker 1: I think at that point they were suspecting me. They
Speaker 1: thought I was involved, but.
Speaker 2: A suspect in what Danielle would soon find out. Chand Skipper,
Speaker 2: her husband of nearly twenty years and the father of
Speaker 2: their six children, hadn't come home that night. He said
Speaker 2: he'd been renovating one of their rental properties. The police
Speaker 2: were screaming questions at her about where Chad was, asking
Speaker 2: if she had any hiding places in the house, and
Speaker 2: most confusing of all, the police were asking about an
Speaker 2: elderly couple who taught Sunday school at their church.
Speaker 1: Why are you asking me questions about them? And where
Speaker 1: is my husband?
Speaker 2: The police wouldn't give her any information about what was
Speaker 2: happening or why they were at her house, but it
Speaker 2: was clear that whatever it was, it was urgent. The
Speaker 2: police took her in and began a long interrogation.
Speaker 1: I went into the interrogation room and they started asking
Speaker 1: me questions. They asked me about this couple, and I
Speaker 1: was thinking, that's a where question out of the blue.
Speaker 1: Why would you ask me specifically about these people. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we know them for sure, We've known them for a
Speaker 1: long time.
Speaker 2: They were also asking questions about the family's finances, questions
Speaker 2: Donielle just didn't have the answers to.
Speaker 1: I was shaking. I was just so confused, like why
Speaker 1: are you asking me this? All I was worried about
Speaker 1: was his safety, like if he was still alive. It
Speaker 1: didn't even dawn on me that it could be what
Speaker 1: it was.
Speaker 2: After hours of interrogation, the police let Danielle go. She
Speaker 2: went to a friend's house, where her kids were waiting
Speaker 2: for her. She repeatedly tried to get in touch with
Speaker 2: Chad without any reply. Then first thing the next morning,
Speaker 2: her phone rang. It was Chad's father.
Speaker 1: He asked me, do you know where Chad is? And
Speaker 1: I said, no, do you? I said, I don't know anything.
Speaker 1: If you know anything, just tell me what's going on,
Speaker 1: because I need to know what's wrong with my husband
Speaker 1: and where he is. And his dad just said there
Speaker 1: was a rumor going around that this couple has been kidnapped,
Speaker 1: and the rumor is also that Chad did it. My
Speaker 1: brain was not registering. It was like, wait, what now,
Speaker 1: that's impossible. This is Chad we're talking about? That rumor's
Speaker 1: wrong And I was thinking, there's just no way that
Speaker 1: it's actually my husband. I know my husband would never
Speaker 1: do anything like this. That's not who he is.
Speaker 2: Unbeknownst to anyone, that couple from their church had been
Speaker 2: missing for three days. We're not saying their names because
Speaker 2: Donielle wants to respect their privacy. Before this, they were friends,
Speaker 2: and Donille believes that their story is their families to
Speaker 2: tell just like her story is hers to tell, So
Speaker 2: for this episode, she's going to call them his victims.
Speaker 1: I had known them since I had met Chad. He
Speaker 1: had known them since the time he was born because
Speaker 1: they were part of his church. They were our Sunday
Speaker 1: school teachers. We would often go over to their house
Speaker 1: and sometimes it would have like a pool party. Sometimes
Speaker 1: it would be a Bible study. So we knew them
Speaker 1: really well. They were amazing people.
Speaker 2: The day before police raided Danielle's house, a woman had
Speaker 2: walked into a bank and asked for a cashier's check
Speaker 2: for three hundred and fifty thousand dollars from her own
Speaker 2: savings account. Before the teller cut the check, the woman
Speaker 2: slipped her note she was being held for ransom. Her
Speaker 2: captor was waiting down the block with her husband in
Speaker 2: the trunk. If she didn't return to the car with
Speaker 2: the check, her kidnapper said he would kill her husband.
Speaker 2: She needed to walk out of that bank check in hand,
Speaker 2: so they gave it to her and let her go,
Speaker 2: and as soon as she walked out of the door,
Speaker 2: the teller called the police. That call initiated had a
Speaker 2: state wide search for the kidnapped couple and their captor. Immediately,
Speaker 2: it became the top story on the local news.
Speaker 3: It all started just before five pm on Wednesday, when
Speaker 3: the Sheriff's office received a call from First Trust in
Speaker 3: Savings Bank in Albany.
Speaker 4: Investigators are working with the FBI, state Police at local agencies.
Speaker 4: It's a case, they say, that will shock this community.
Speaker 2: The morning after the raid, Danielle was still in the
Speaker 2: dark about what was happening. She was reeling and desperately
Speaker 2: trying to get in touch with her husband. She didn't
Speaker 2: want to believe the wild theory that Chad could have
Speaker 2: kidnapped this elderly couple. That was until she saw his
Speaker 2: picture on the news.
Speaker 1: My whole world got flipped upside down at that moment
Speaker 1: when I saw his picture in the police update and
Speaker 1: what he had done story. In Whiteside County.
Speaker 4: Investigators say they've never seen anything quite like The.
Speaker 2: Man accused of kidnapping a couple at gunpoint from Erie,
Speaker 2: Illinois is facing four felony charges in connection to the kidnapping.
Speaker 1: Chad Skipper handcuffed the couple to their bed and threatened
Speaker 1: to shoot them with his gun if they didn't pay
Speaker 1: him three hundred and fifty thousand dollars. At that point,
Speaker 1: all I knew was that he abducted somebody. And that's
Speaker 1: where I just broke down and started crying my eyes
Speaker 1: out and fell to the floor and was just didn't
Speaker 1: know what to do.
Speaker 2: In that moment, she understood why the police woke her
Speaker 2: up in the middle of the night.
Speaker 1: When the police knocked down my door asking if I
Speaker 1: had any hiding areas in the house. I'm sure they
Speaker 1: were looking for the people that he abducted. They were
Speaker 1: wanting to know if there was a place in that
Speaker 1: house where they could be hidden. As far as they know,
Speaker 1: I'm know where the kidnap victims are because I'm his wife.
Speaker 1: I mean, most people would assume that the wife would know,
Speaker 1: but I had no clue.
Speaker 2: Over the following days and weeks, Danielle discovered the full
Speaker 2: extent of her husband's horrifying crimes. This is what she learned.
Speaker 1: A couple days before the police knocked down my door.
Speaker 1: He must have gone to their home. I think that's
Speaker 1: what the sledgehammer was for. To break into their home.
Speaker 1: He had my daughter duct tape it with black duct
Speaker 1: tape so that the yellow handle wouldn't be seen in
Speaker 1: the dark. I heard that he had a voice changer
Speaker 1: and that he was all dressed in black. And I
Speaker 1: also heard that he broke into their home and sat
Speaker 1: in their kitchen for several hours before going upstairs to
Speaker 1: wake them.
Speaker 2: He just sat in their kitchen for hours in the
Speaker 2: middle of the night before he finally entered the bedroom
Speaker 2: where the elderly couple was sleeping.
Speaker 1: He tased the guy and threatened his wife and then
Speaker 1: said where is your God now? And took them from
Speaker 1: their home forcibly. They didn't even have a chance to
Speaker 1: get their clothes on. And I know that he had
Speaker 1: told them that it wasn't just him, like he threatened them,
Speaker 1: that it was like a group of people who were
Speaker 1: doing this.
Speaker 2: After the police showed up at the bank, they called
Speaker 2: in the FBI, who traced the cashier's check and found
Speaker 2: the couple's names in address. When they searched their home,
Speaker 2: they discovered signs of forced entry, evidence of a deployed taser,
Speaker 2: and small drops of blood in the bedroom, but the
Speaker 2: house was eerily quiet. No one was home. In fact,
Speaker 2: by the time the police were alerted, no one had
Speaker 2: heard from the couple In three days.
Speaker 1: He had her call around and tell a false story
Speaker 1: about them deciding to go on vacation. I think he
Speaker 1: even took their car to the airport.
Speaker 2: While Chad was committing this elaborate crime, Donielle was at
Speaker 2: home taking care of their kids, going about her business
Speaker 2: just as usual, completely unaware that her husband had violently
Speaker 2: kidnapped their family friends and was holding them for ransom.
Speaker 2: But where was Chad and where was he holding the couple?
Speaker 2: Donielle had no idea. When the police were finally alerted,
Speaker 2: they knew time was of the essence. They relied on
Speaker 2: the FBI and state police to use all resources possible
Speaker 2: to find the missing couple. Ransom kidnapping cases like this
Speaker 2: often end in tragedy, especially considering the money was already exchanged.
Speaker 2: They were running out of time. With each passing hour,
Speaker 2: the search grew increasingly urgent. Then the FBI got a
Speaker 2: tip about a car match the description of the one
Speaker 2: scene leaving the bank with the kidnap victims, a silver
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety Chevy Caprice. But Donielle didn't know anything about
Speaker 2: a Chevy Caprice, so maybe they had the wrong guy.
Speaker 2: The police tracked the car down, but when they went
Speaker 2: to pull it over, the driver sped up. It was
Speaker 2: all over the local news.
Speaker 3: Around four thirty am, the car crashed here outside Port Byron.
Speaker 2: We tried to effect a stop on that vehicle and
Speaker 2: they took up at had rate of speed. The police
Speaker 2: approached the crash vehicle and found that the driver was
Speaker 2: indeed Chad Skipper. He was injured but alive and arrested
Speaker 2: on the spot in connection with the kidnapping. Law enforcement
Speaker 2: was hoping to find the victims with Chad alive in
Speaker 2: the trunk of his car, but no one else was
Speaker 2: with him. Instead, the police found clear plastic painters, tarps,
Speaker 2: a saw tape, and a shovel. Now that Chad was arrested,
Speaker 2: the only priority was finding the missing couple. There were
Speaker 2: still a few places the police hadn't searched Chad's rental properties.
Speaker 2: After he was arrested, Chad gave police the address where
Speaker 2: he said the couple was being held.
Speaker 1: When he was arrested, I thought that house was still rented,
Speaker 1: like I thought people were in the house renting it
Speaker 1: from us.
Speaker 2: When police showed up, it looked like a construction zone.
Speaker 2: The services were covered in sawdust and power tools. The
Speaker 2: doors were taking off their hinges, and there was a
Speaker 2: ladder in the middle of the living room, but it
Speaker 2: also looked like someone had been squatting there. There was
Speaker 2: trash everywhere, plates of half eaten food, electronic wires and
Speaker 2: cables dangled from the outlets. Police searched every room, but
Speaker 2: no one seemed to be in the house. Then they
Speaker 2: double checked the bedroom, where they took a closer look
Speaker 2: at a computer monitor laying on the floor. It appeared
Speaker 2: to show a surveillance feed six live feed images of
Speaker 2: a windowless room where two figures were lying on a
Speaker 2: mattress covered by blankets. On the wall next to them
Speaker 2: were hooks and shackles. There was a secret room somewhere
Speaker 2: in this house, and Chad's victims were in there. The
Speaker 2: night of Chad's arrest, police began searching one of his
Speaker 2: rental properties for a secret room, a dungeon where he
Speaker 2: was holding two people captive. From what they could see
Speaker 2: on the surveillance feed, it was a windowless room somewhere
Speaker 2: in the house. The couple was lying motionless on a mattress.
Speaker 2: It wasn't clear if they were alive, but then one
Speaker 2: of the FBI agents moved a dresser in the closet
Speaker 2: and lifted up a piece of carpeting to reveal a
Speaker 2: locked steel hatch.
Speaker 1: And the only entry and exit to that dungeon room
Speaker 1: was through a steel trap door with a lock on
Speaker 1: the outside in a closet hidden under the dresser or something.
Speaker 1: He walled it off with cement blocks and soundproofing. You
Speaker 1: would only know it was there if you knew it
Speaker 1: was there.
Speaker 2: Police used boltcutters to open the door. They found an
Speaker 2: eight foot drop into a dark, windowless room, and they
Speaker 2: went in. That's where they discovered the couple, miraculously still alive.
Speaker 2: They had been tortured and chained. Chad said he had
Speaker 2: people watching their kids and grandkids, so if they tried
Speaker 2: to escape or get help, he would kill them.
Speaker 1: They were in that dungeon for a couple of days.
Speaker 1: I can't even imagine thinking that you're going to die,
Speaker 1: thinking that your children are going to die, hooked up
Speaker 1: on this thing, your hands up in the air for
Speaker 1: so many hours that you're basically shaking and can't even stand,
Speaker 1: and having their kids and grandkids threatened.
Speaker 2: Once he got the money, he was planning to kill them.
Speaker 1: I mean, what's he going to do? Go? Oh, I'm
Speaker 1: going to let you go now, forgive me. Everything's fine.
Speaker 1: How else could it end?
Speaker 2: And judging by the contents of his car, it seemed
Speaker 2: like he meant it. This what if still haunts Danielle.
Speaker 2: Chad was charged with felony home invasion, aggravated kidnapping, an
Speaker 2: unlawful restraint. His bail was set at a million dollars overnight.
Speaker 2: Danielle had to reckon with the fact that her husband
Speaker 2: of nearly two decades and the father of her children
Speaker 2: was capable of a violent crime. In addition to processing
Speaker 2: that shock, she didn't understand why was it all for
Speaker 2: the money.
Speaker 1: I didn't know that we were having financial trouble. I'm
Speaker 1: a penny pincher, so I don't know where all the
Speaker 1: money was going, and I don't know why he needed that.
Speaker 2: To answer that question, Donielle started looking through Chad's basement office. There,
Speaker 2: she made a series of shocking discoveries. First, why he
Speaker 2: targeted the people he did.
Speaker 1: He had gotten a hold of their finances and knew
Speaker 1: how much they had in the bank because he had
Speaker 1: asked them to be clients of his for his fake
Speaker 1: financial business.
Speaker 2: His fake financial business. She also found out that he
Speaker 2: was never actually a certified financial advisor or planner, so
Speaker 2: what did he do for a living? From what she
Speaker 2: gathered in his office, he charmed elderly people into letting
Speaker 2: him be their financial advisor, where he would skim from
Speaker 2: their accounts for years. In fact, after he was arrested,
Speaker 2: his own parents suited him for stealing over four hundred
Speaker 2: thousand dollars while he claimed to serve as their financial advisor.
Speaker 2: But not only did he steal from his own parents,
Speaker 2: he also stole from his grandmother.
Speaker 1: It was around that same amount, something like three hundred thousand.
Speaker 1: Maybe he felt like he needed to steal that from
Speaker 1: his victims in order to repay the money that he
Speaker 1: had stolen from his grandma.
Speaker 2: He never confessed to this, but it added up for Danielle.
Speaker 2: What never made sense, though, was the construction of the dungeon.
Speaker 1: I found the plans and bills from it in his office.
Speaker 2: Chad had been hiring a contractor to build the dungeon
Speaker 2: piece by piece over the past two years.
Speaker 1: I can't even imagine how much that cost. It had
Speaker 1: it been thousands upon thousands, and I don't think the
Speaker 1: person who did it ever got paid.
Speaker 2: Honestly, the shocking fact that he built a dungeon to
Speaker 2: hold the kidnapping victims kept the story in the headlines
Speaker 2: for months.
Speaker 1: Internewsad exclusive Tonight investigative reporter Chris Miner shows us a
Speaker 1: photo of that actual room where it's believed the couple
Speaker 1: was held against their will.
Speaker 2: Danielle never slept another night in the big house that
Speaker 2: she and Chad had shared with their kids.
Speaker 1: I did not want the kids to be back in
Speaker 1: the house, knowing that he had done that, knowing that
Speaker 1: he was capable of kidnapping people that he's known for
Speaker 1: his whole life. I didn't want them back into that house,
Speaker 1: and I didn't want to live in that house anymore.
Speaker 2: She and her kids moved into her parents' home while
Speaker 2: she got her bearings. For the first few months after
Speaker 2: Chad's arrest, Danielle's dad would accompany her to the old
Speaker 2: house to continue excavating Chad's office. The police had already
Speaker 2: collected the evidence they needed, and she was left to
Speaker 2: clean up the rest.
Speaker 1: Every day that we went into his office, there was
Speaker 1: another thing. Oh he lied about this next day. Oh
Speaker 1: he lied about that too. I remember at one point
Speaker 1: we were both looking at each other on our way
Speaker 1: to the house, thinking, I wonder what else we're going
Speaker 1: to find in his office today? What else could there be?
Speaker 2: There was insurance fraud.
Speaker 1: One of the things we found in his office was
Speaker 1: that he actually claimed that my wedding ring was lost
Speaker 1: and took insurance out for it. So even our wedding
Speaker 1: ring he lied about.
Speaker 2: There was credit card fraud.
Speaker 1: He had fraudulently signed credit cards in his dad's name.
Speaker 1: You've gotten credit cards in my name. He had forged
Speaker 1: my name.
Speaker 2: She also found lies about herself, stories she'd never heard before.
Speaker 1: We found several papers that had conversations written down on
Speaker 1: them that had lies about me as far as like
Speaker 1: I had to go have a brain surgery in Minnesota
Speaker 1: or somewhere. It just, you know, lies like that in
Speaker 1: order to gain control or gain sympathy from the people
Speaker 1: that he was talking to. There were just like conversations
Speaker 1: written down on a piece of paper. Some of them
Speaker 1: were to credit card companies because it was with credit
Speaker 1: card stuff. Some of it was two different potential clients
Speaker 1: that he was going to have.
Speaker 2: And some things she discovered were just suspicious.
Speaker 1: Hiking boots that he never wore, a wet suit that
Speaker 1: was still wet and had a little bit of on
Speaker 1: the cuff, and it's like, he didn't never go scuba diving,
Speaker 1: so why does he have a wetsuits? And where would
Speaker 1: he have used the wetsuit in the Mississippi River. You know,
Speaker 1: just strange things that we never found an answer to.
Speaker 2: One of the most haunting things she found in his
Speaker 2: office was a set of life insurance policies on everyone
Speaker 2: in their family, policies she never knew existed.
Speaker 1: He had life insurance policies out on me and the kids.
Speaker 1: I think mine was a million and I think my
Speaker 1: kids were a quarter of a million each. It messes
Speaker 1: with your mind really hard. I never felt like I
Speaker 1: was threatened or my kids were threatened for our lives.
Speaker 1: It was only after his arrest and when we started
Speaker 1: going through the stuff in his office that I was like,
Speaker 1: WHOA If I had confronted him about any of this stuff,
Speaker 1: if I had known about it, I don't think I
Speaker 1: would be here.
Speaker 2: Donielle didn't want his explanations. She cooperated with the police
Speaker 2: and prosecutors and gave them any evidence they needed.
Speaker 1: One of the things that the police told me is
Speaker 1: that in all of their cases they said they have
Speaker 1: never come across a case that was so kind of ride.
Speaker 1: With the amount of evidence for this guy, I was like, wow,
Speaker 1: and he thought he was so smart.
Speaker 2: She sent him one letter in jail where she said
Speaker 2: she would be praying for him but needed to.
Speaker 5: Cut off communication.
Speaker 2: After that, she filed for divorce, but letters from Chad
Speaker 2: never stopped coming. Every few weeks there'd be that distinctive
Speaker 2: envelope in their mailbox.
Speaker 1: Every time I got a letter from him, my whole
Speaker 1: body would just shake. I would get sweaty palms, hard
Speaker 1: to breathe. But as soon as I saw that envelope,
Speaker 1: I'm like, not another one.
Speaker 2: She never replied, hoping his letters would finally stop coming.
Speaker 2: But one day she got a letter that was different
Speaker 2: from the others.
Speaker 1: On the outside of the envelope, it was not addressed
Speaker 1: as him. It was addressed as Eloisa May. And that
Speaker 1: threw me because I'm like, well, this is definitely a
Speaker 1: letter from that jail, but Eloisa May is kind of weird.
Speaker 1: I don't know in Eloisa May, and there was no
Speaker 1: like return address, it was just the name. And so
Speaker 1: when I opened it and it wasn't in his writing either,
Speaker 1: I was thinking, Okay, that's weird too. There's something off.
Speaker 1: The whole letter is written in this weird southern accent.
Speaker 1: I felt like I was reading Huckleberry Finn.
Speaker 2: This is how the letter began.
Speaker 1: How do you there, missye? My name is Eloise and May.
Speaker 1: You don't know me, honey child, but maybe we can
Speaker 1: remedy that with this here letter.
Speaker 2: While Chad sat in jail, Danielle was trying to rebuild
Speaker 2: her life. That's when she began to get strange letters
Speaker 2: in the mail. The return address just said the name
Speaker 2: Eloise A.
Speaker 1: May.
Speaker 2: This is what the letters were about.
Speaker 1: If this fake character who supposedly lives I think in
Speaker 1: Arkansas or something, but she moved to Illinois because her
Speaker 1: daughter is in Illinois. She had a stroke and so
Speaker 1: now she's in the hospital and she came across my
Speaker 1: story and she starts telling me how her husband was
Speaker 1: an alcoholic and at one point he physically abused her,
Speaker 1: and so she left him and went to live with
Speaker 1: his parents.
Speaker 2: Finally, Chad or Eloisa May got to the point.
Speaker 1: She ended up deciding to get a divorce because you know,
Speaker 1: she didn't want to do with his abusive, addictive issues.
Speaker 1: He ended up killing himself and because of her decision
Speaker 1: to get a divorce, her daughter and son are having
Speaker 1: issues in their lives and they take the blame for
Speaker 1: him dying. I felt like it was a threat. If
Speaker 1: you divorce me, I'm going to kill myself, and your
Speaker 1: kids are gonna feel like it was their fault. That's
Speaker 1: the feeling I got from the letter.
Speaker 2: The letters were four or five six pages long, written
Speaker 2: in a tiny meat handwriting that didn't look like Chad's
Speaker 2: at all. She assumed that either he was disguising his
Speaker 2: handwriting or got someone in the jail to write it
Speaker 2: for him while he dictated. Either way, the character Chad
Speaker 2: was putting on was so transparently manipulative.
Speaker 1: He didn't directly say how can you divorce me, but
Speaker 1: through the character of Eloisa, may was basically saying that.
Speaker 2: She suspects that he made the character Southern to try
Speaker 2: to pull on Danielle's heartstrings because her grandmother was from
Speaker 2: the South.
Speaker 1: A little bit, he goes, I feel the Good Lord
Speaker 1: telling me to do something, and I got a little eager.
Speaker 1: Danielle sugar and May I declare Darlin. That is one
Speaker 1: of the most beautiful and unique names I've ever heard.
Speaker 1: Something we have in common, sweetie.
Speaker 2: Chad also used his extensive knowledge of the Bible to
Speaker 2: try and make Danielle question her decisions.
Speaker 1: He basically has a sermon in there and quotes Bible
Speaker 1: passages about God hates divorce and gives me examples of
Speaker 1: different characters in the Bible who wanted to get a
Speaker 1: divorce but didn't because it's not the right thing to do.
Speaker 2: The eloise and may letters almost amused her, but they
Speaker 2: also felt like an insult. Did he really think she
Speaker 2: would fall for this?
Speaker 1: I think he had a very very low opinion of
Speaker 1: me art still does. I struggle with that with my
Speaker 1: marriage too, because he treated me like a child.
Speaker 2: She kept the Aloise in May letters to remind herself
Speaker 2: of just how delusional and scheming Chad really was. A
Speaker 2: year after his arrest, Chad pled guilty, but before he
Speaker 2: faced a sentencing hearing for the kidnapping, they had their
Speaker 2: divorce trial.
Speaker 1: He actually did not have a lawyer to do those proceedings.
Speaker 1: He was pro se and so he questioned me on
Speaker 1: the stand, which was really really nerve wreaking.
Speaker 2: Danielle was awarded full custody, and shortly after she attended
Speaker 2: her ex husband's sentencing hearing. It started with the victim's statements.
Speaker 1: There were no dry eyes in that courtroom. There are
Speaker 1: amazing people.
Speaker 2: The judge was done by Chad's crime, especially the premeditation
Speaker 2: that had gone into building the dungeon and the torture
Speaker 2: the victims injured.
Speaker 1: From what the judge said when he sentenced him, he
Speaker 1: wanted people to know this is not acceptable in society,
Speaker 1: like it's heinous. You can't just do that type of
Speaker 1: a crime and get away with it.
Speaker 2: The judge gave Chad the maximum sentence possible.
Speaker 3: Today Chad Skipper, in a packed courtroom, listened as he
Speaker 3: awaited his jail sentence, sixty years, the rest of his
Speaker 3: life in prison.
Speaker 1: I was thinking he was only going to get twenty years,
Speaker 1: and so when it was sixty, I was surprised.
Speaker 2: Surprised, but grateful. She sees how dangerous Chad is and
Speaker 2: doesn't want him anywhere near her or their children ever again.
Speaker 2: She says she forgives him, but forgiveness can include boundaries.
Speaker 1: I have a big, big problem with some of the
Speaker 1: ways that Christian pastors portray forgiveness that every marriage, one
Speaker 1: hundred percent of marriages can be resolved and I was like,
Speaker 1: that is very very untrue and very very dangerous to
Speaker 1: say if there's an abuse happening, that's not true.
Speaker 2: Danielle decided to stay in that small town of Eerie, Illinois.
Speaker 2: Chad's victims still live there too, and Donielle has seen
Speaker 2: them around town.
Speaker 1: I have seen them, Yeah, I've seen them seeing their kids.
Speaker 1: You know. I smile at them when they see me.
Speaker 1: I don't know if they recognize me or not. I
Speaker 1: don't know if they see me when I see them.
Speaker 1: I really don't know.
Speaker 2: She's even thought about reaching out to apologize for the
Speaker 2: pain her husband caused and to grieve with them.
Speaker 1: I would love to talk to them directly. I haven't
Speaker 1: because when I was speaking with my lawyer and also
Speaker 1: the police even said something about don't reach out. So
Speaker 1: I've I just kind of like took a step back.
Speaker 1: I don't even know what their thoughts are towards me,
Speaker 1: if they feel like I was part of it, or
Speaker 1: if they know that I had no idea what was
Speaker 1: going on. One of the reasons why I haven't reached
Speaker 1: out is because I really don't want to cause them
Speaker 1: more pain.
Speaker 2: Some people in their community just didn't believe that Danielle
Speaker 2: was in the dark about her husband's double life.
Speaker 1: When you first was arrested, there were some posts on
Speaker 1: Facebook about it. People were saying, oh she knew, and
Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2: Around town, She's noticed that people don't smile and wave
Speaker 2: as much as they used to.
Speaker 1: I haven't had anybody approach me and accuse me of anything.
Speaker 1: It's just, you know, when you're walking around in a
Speaker 1: small town sometimes you get looks, just kind of a
Speaker 1: weird side look like I know who you are, don't
Speaker 1: look at me, don't interact with me.
Speaker 2: She's had to reckon with blaming herself for not knowing
Speaker 2: who her husband actually was and what he was really
Speaker 2: doing all those nights he claimed to be in the
Speaker 2: basement working.
Speaker 1: I couldn't have known. He didn't show that part of
Speaker 1: himself to me. All I know is the life that
Speaker 1: he had with me and our kids. That's all I saw.
Speaker 1: He was able to do everything else completely separate. I
Speaker 1: can't blame myself for something that he did without me knowing.
Speaker 2: As part of her healing process, she's learned about people
Speaker 2: like Chad and the tactics they use, tactics that felt
Speaker 2: very familiar.
Speaker 1: When I was doing my studies of narcissistic behavior. One
Speaker 1: of the things that really spoke to me was a
Speaker 1: thing called word salad, and I totally was like, Yep,
Speaker 1: that's exactly what it was, just words that twist. Anything
Speaker 1: that I said, he would twist it around and jumbled
Speaker 1: it up like a salad and then shoot it back
Speaker 1: at me. And my mind would just be like, I
Speaker 1: don't even know what's going on.
Speaker 2: These kinds of things helped her understand how he had
Speaker 2: subtly manipulated her for so long, but that didn't ease
Speaker 2: the self blame or the sense that she couldn't trust
Speaker 2: anyone around her or even herself.
Speaker 1: If my husband can pull the wool over my eyes
Speaker 1: so easily, and I thought that he was an amazing person,
Speaker 1: does that mean that this amazing person can also pull
Speaker 1: the wool over my eyes? Like? What are they actually
Speaker 1: behind closed doors? Are they the person that they are
Speaker 1: presenting to me as a loving brother, a loving friend?
Speaker 1: But then when we are not in each other's presence,
Speaker 1: are they somebody else? Like? Okay, this pastor seems like
Speaker 1: he is everything that a pastor should be. But now
Speaker 1: that I've been through what I've been through. Is he
Speaker 1: who he says he is or is this just his
Speaker 1: presentation of who he says he is.
Speaker 2: For Donielle, trusting the wrong person building a life with
Speaker 2: them left her all alone and a single parent.
Speaker 1: All the weight of the responsibility is now mine because
Speaker 1: I know I had six kids and I had to
Speaker 1: support them Now.
Speaker 2: She found work as an online English tutor, and she
Speaker 2: built a business writing and selling knitting patterns.
Speaker 1: My business is called knitting nicely but then nicely, spoke
Speaker 1: with a Cayen, I'm really proud that I have a
Speaker 1: business that I absolutely love and enjoy.
Speaker 2: After her divorce, she decided that she was done with
Speaker 2: romantic relationships.
Speaker 1: My whole view of the loving, caring relationship of marriage
Speaker 1: got trashed. Even when I would see couples in church
Speaker 1: or shopping holding hands, or I would see a post
Speaker 1: about somebody you celebrating an anniversary, it would kind of
Speaker 1: turn my stomach. It just got ew to me because
Speaker 1: of what I went through, you know, having trust in
Speaker 1: someone and then having that trust completely destroyed. I didn't
Speaker 1: want to go through what I went through again. I
Speaker 1: didn't want to put my kids through that again. So
Speaker 1: for me, I was like, Okay, I am going to
Speaker 1: do this single mom thing and we're going to make it.
Speaker 2: But then, but then she saw a post on Facebook
Speaker 2: from her high school boyfriend Billy, the one who proposed
Speaker 2: to her thirty years ago. They'd since drifted apart and
Speaker 2: hadn't talked in nearly a decade, but in his post,
Speaker 2: she saw that his fiance had recently passed away, so
Speaker 2: she reached out to lend support.
Speaker 1: We were just like being there for each other, you know.
Speaker 1: I kind of wanted to uplift him and make him
Speaker 1: come out of the hole that I felt like he
Speaker 1: was about to go into, just to have somebody to
Speaker 1: talk to, to be able to laugh with. But then
Speaker 1: the conversations got longer, and then we ended up staying
Speaker 1: up all night talking over Messenger, and my daughter was
Speaker 1: starting to say, who is this that you're talking to
Speaker 1: all this time? And I think she knew before I
Speaker 1: knew that I was starting to fall in love again.
Speaker 2: Danielle and Billy planned a FaceTime call where they would
Speaker 2: see each other for the first time.
Speaker 1: In years, and as soon as I saw his smiling face,
Speaker 1: I knew that was that was it. I was going
Speaker 1: to pursue that relationship for sure. The trust issue was
Speaker 1: not even an issue in the situation because I had
Speaker 1: known him from when I was a teenager. There wasn't
Speaker 1: that is he really who he says he is? Question?
Speaker 2: So they started dating again.
Speaker 1: Both of us were like, this is weird. How could
Speaker 1: this actually be happening again? Donnie and Billy two point zero.
Speaker 2: After a few months of dating again, they got married
Speaker 2: surrounded by their families at the Thanksgiving table.
Speaker 1: So we had Thanksgiving dinner, and then between Thanksgiving dinner
Speaker 1: and dessert is when the wedding happened. Yeah, it was
Speaker 1: really cool. I loved it. Wouldn't have it any other way.
Speaker 2: We end all of our weekly episodes with the same question,
Speaker 2: why did you want to tell your story?
Speaker 1: Knowing that you're not alone is so helpful. That's huge
Speaker 1: for people who've gone through stuff like that. That was
Speaker 1: one of the main things that helped me. Knowing that
Speaker 1: people have actually survived it and are happy again, that
Speaker 1: was really huge. My main reason for wanting to tell
Speaker 1: my story is to give people hope that even though
Speaker 1: you may feel like your world is upside down and
Speaker 1: it can never become upside up again, there is a
Speaker 1: light at the tunnel. Maybe really tiny and small might
Speaker 1: be a little tiny speck, but there is a light.
Speaker 5: On the next episode of Betrayal, he said, yesterday I
Speaker 5: turned myself in and I will be going to prison.
Speaker 1: And when he said the word prison, I about died.
Speaker 2: If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal
Speaker 2: team or want to tell us your Betrayal story, email
Speaker 2: us at Betrayalpod at gmail dot com. That's Betrayal Pod
Speaker 2: at gmail dot com. We're grateful for your support. One
Speaker 2: way to show support is by subscribing to our show
Speaker 2: on Apple Podcasts, and don't forget to rate and review Betrayal.
Speaker 2: Five star reviews go a long way. A big thank
Speaker 2: you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is a production
Speaker 2: of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group and
Speaker 2: partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive produced by
Speaker 2: Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fasin, hosted and produced by me
Speaker 2: Andrea Gunning, written and produced by Monique Leboard, also produced
Speaker 2: by Ben Fetterman. Associate producers are Kristin Mercury and Caitlin Golden.
Speaker 2: Our iHeart team is Ali Perry and Jessica Krincheck, Audio
Speaker 2: editing and mixing by Matt Delvecchio, additional editing support from
Speaker 2: Nico Ruka. Betrayal's theme composed by Oliver Bains. Music library
Speaker 2: provided by Mob Music and For more podcasts from iHeart,
Speaker 2: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get
Speaker 2: your podcasts