1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome 2 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: back to the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always 3 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:32,879 Speaker 1: so much for tuning in. Let's give it up for 4 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 1: our one and only super producer, the Man, the myth, 5 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:39,159 Speaker 1: the legend. You know him, you know him, super producer 6 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:45,159 Speaker 1: Max Williams. They called me, Yeah, well, yeah, you're an 7 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:47,559 Speaker 1: old and I love Max too. You know, I'm trying 8 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 1: to get more in touch with my feelings, right, uh so, 9 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 1: nol um, You and I are fans of many, many things. 10 00:00:58,040 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: And I don't know about you, man, but were you 11 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 1: lucky enough to go to the Olympics when they were 12 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 1: held in Atlanta back in nineties six or so? I 13 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 1: did not, but I remember the weird little mascot that 14 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:12,960 Speaker 1: probably cost a gazillion dollars. What is it is? He? 15 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:15,120 Speaker 1: He was just sort of a thing, like it was 16 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: a non what was it? This is that thing on 17 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:21,040 Speaker 1: Mr Show Pit Pat. He's like a non gendered kind 18 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:24,399 Speaker 1: of pan sexual spokes thing. I think that is kind 19 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:26,760 Speaker 1: of what izz he was was supposed to be, Like 20 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 1: what is it? What is it? Okay? Cool? Yeah, you 21 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:32,119 Speaker 1: weren't supposed to know what it was. It was supposed 22 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:33,960 Speaker 1: to be like draw you in to it, and then 23 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:35,960 Speaker 1: you were spy trying to figure out what it was. Well, 24 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 1: and and there, and the collectible pins proliferate our thrift 25 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:42,839 Speaker 1: shops here in the Atlanta area to this day. So yeah, man, 26 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 1: history is weird. That's kind of the point of our show. 27 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 1: So we were thinking about the Olympics for a while, 28 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: fellow ridiculous historians. We had them on our minds, and 29 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 1: not just randomly for good reason. You see, we are 30 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 1: diving into a little owned story about the Olympics all 31 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 1: the way back in nineteen eighty and we're not doing 32 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:10,799 Speaker 1: it alone, that's correct. We are joined with the creators 33 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 1: and the host and the producer of Eclipse, which is 34 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:21,639 Speaker 1: a weekly narrative history podcast from our good friends at 35 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 1: camp Side Media. Please welcome to the show, Stephen and 36 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:34,239 Speaker 1: Lane gerbick Oh, thank you for having us. Great to 37 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:37,800 Speaker 1: be here. This is exciting. Yeah, we definitely have done 38 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 1: plenty of Olympic episodes. There's, of course, the Olympics that 39 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 1: were famously in Berlin under the Nazi regime and Emily 40 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 1: Jesse Owens one to Hitler's chagrin in the triathlon, and 41 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 1: that's the one that always sticks in my mind. But this, 42 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 1: you know, so the Olympics have always served as kind 43 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 1: of like a political bargaining chip in some respect, and 44 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 1: I think we're gonna jump into another story with that 45 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 1: same kind of flavor today. Yeah, for sure. So when 46 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 1: we talk about the Olympics in nineteen eighty, there are 47 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:13,640 Speaker 1: some folks in the audience who may remember them, may 48 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:17,680 Speaker 1: have firsthand experience of reading, you know, the contemporaneous press 49 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:21,080 Speaker 1: and so and so forth. But I don't think a 50 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 1: lot of people in two just know off the top 51 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 1: of their heads that the US actually boycott at the 52 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 1: Olympic Games. I didn't know until we started chatting together. 53 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 1: Could you tell us a little bit about how that 54 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 1: came to be? Yeah, of course, But no, that's a 55 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 1: great question. I think. Um, it has to do with 56 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 1: Jimmy Carter, the Soviet Union and Afghanistan, which you know, 57 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 1: you might recognize those names. Jimmy Carter is the president 58 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 1: of the US in and in nineteen seventy nine, I 59 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 1: believe the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan and installed a new dictator, 60 00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 1: so they like did a coup, Mr Carter. You know, 61 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 1: there's the highly Cold War. He wasn't very happy that 62 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 1: the Soviets had done that, and the Olympics is coming 63 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: up in nineteen eighties, so he was like and it 64 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 1: was set to be Moscow, so he was just like, well, 65 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 1: we're not gonna go because unless you fix this, unless 66 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:19,600 Speaker 1: you leave Afghanistan. And Sounian was like no. So Carter 67 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 1: was like, Okay, everybody who's aligned with the US, don't 68 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:25,839 Speaker 1: go to the Olympics. And it ended up being sixty 69 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:28,040 Speaker 1: five countries that were just like, nah, we're not going. 70 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 1: And we're seeing something similar right now with Russia's invasion 71 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 1: of Ukraine and a lot of like you know, national 72 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:39,239 Speaker 1: kind of sports organizations not allowing Russian participants and also 73 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 1: obviously not sending anyone to any sort of things that 74 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:45,159 Speaker 1: are based in Russia. Yeah, it's like it's unfortunately timely 75 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 1: because you know, so I think I feel like we 76 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:48,479 Speaker 1: like I please correct me if I'm wrong, but I 77 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:52,839 Speaker 1: feel like we we do stories that like are overlooked 78 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 1: for a reason, like not for a reason, but they're 79 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:58,159 Speaker 1: overlooked because like they're not always that resonant in history, 80 00:04:58,160 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 1: Like it's not they don't feel current all the time. 81 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:04,920 Speaker 1: And this is it's distressing that this one feels extremely current. Yeah, 82 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 1: Like I think we were in Puerto Rico on the 83 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:10,679 Speaker 1: ground doing reporting and there was like this big Russian 84 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: flag and it just was it just hit us in 85 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:16,359 Speaker 1: that moment. We were like time, time is circular, like 86 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 1: history definitely repeats itself, doesn't repeat itself, but it does. Rhyme. 87 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:23,839 Speaker 1: I think somebody somebody said that somebody smart to Nighted Lucas. 88 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 1: I know that's something else, but it's probably but yeah, 89 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:30,840 Speaker 1: it's I mean like the the Winner Games, Um, I 90 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:32,919 Speaker 1: guess I was last year, right, they did the makeup 91 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 1: winner Olympic anyway, but um, Russia couldn't compete because they 92 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 1: invaded Ukraine and it was like r OC was what 93 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:41,600 Speaker 1: they were competing under. Actually it was because they were 94 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:44,160 Speaker 1: aggressing at Ukra. I don't think they invaded quite then, 95 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 1: but it was. Yeah, so jump in real quickly. The 96 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 1: reason why Russia was competing under r OC was they 97 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 1: had been caught breaking into drug testing facilities at at 98 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:59,679 Speaker 1: the IOC and changing out the samples. But Putin purposely 99 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 1: waited for the Olympics to end, like it was like 100 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 1: the week afterwards to invade you cranks. He knew he 101 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:07,720 Speaker 1: would get probably like either get Hina in trouble or 102 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:09,280 Speaker 1: something of that, and he actually did the same thing 103 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 1: when he invade Chromeia. That's interesting because he was that 104 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 1: they were definitely like making aggressive overtures at Ukraine beforehand. 105 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 1: But all right, well that's history. Well I don't think 106 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 1: we're too early in the show for it. Max hit 107 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:30,800 Speaker 1: us with that sounds cute enough just for you right 108 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:39,479 Speaker 1: now there it is. I guarantee like this will sound 109 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 1: this will make sense in the edit. But one thing 110 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:45,719 Speaker 1: that really stands out to me, just before we dive 111 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:48,159 Speaker 1: into this story, because there is a twist, we've set 112 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 1: up the context, but before we get to the twist, 113 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 1: I want to zoom out just a little bit and 114 00:06:54,720 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: hear more about eclipsed because Eclipse is taking an approach 115 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:05,719 Speaker 1: that I personally quite enjoy, which is saying, let's look 116 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 1: at history. Let's look at not just historical events that 117 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: maybe could bear further examination, but let's look at them 118 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 1: in a new perspective, right from a fresh informed I 119 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 1: and could you tell us a little bit about the 120 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 1: inspiration that led you to create Eclipse and then lead 121 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 1: you to do your other work as well. I'm I'm 122 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 1: of course, I'm right now. I'm particularly thinking of the 123 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:37,880 Speaker 1: Charming Killer episode from May three, which was true crime 124 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 1: author Sarah Wineman. Yeah, well I can tell you about 125 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:43,320 Speaker 1: the genesis of Eclipse, and I think line can give 126 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 1: you more insight on why we choose the things we do. Um, 127 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 1: but yeah, the gene it was funny because, like I 128 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 1: they I case, I was like, hey, do you want 129 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 1: to host the show? And I was like, yeah, for sure. 130 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 1: What's it about? And they told me like a concept 131 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 1: and I was like, well, this makes sense, but I'm 132 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:02,880 Speaker 1: going to change it with the other executive producer, Michael 133 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 1: Kenyon Meyer, who is not here today because he writes 134 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 1: the show trust to Mike. But basically we were like, Okay, 135 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 1: we want to do something that's that's going to be 136 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 1: interesting that we're actually interested in making, and so we 137 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 1: sort of scrapped the original concept. The thing we kept 138 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 1: was this is a show about stories you never knew 139 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:22,760 Speaker 1: you never knew, so we sort of went from there. Yeah. 140 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 1: I think like history has such uh just there's so 141 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 1: much to dig into. If we're talking I p there's 142 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:32,319 Speaker 1: tons of it, right, Like, there's tons of content to 143 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: pull from, and we picked stories that we want to 144 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 1: know more about, and normally we're searching the web, we're 145 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 1: we're seeing what strikes our fancy and the story about 146 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 1: this particular Olympics, and the stories that we choose tend 147 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 1: to hook us. So you brought up the this charming 148 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 1: killer story with Sarah Wineman. She was just an author 149 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 1: that I admired and we reached out to her and 150 00:08:58,120 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 1: we saw that she had a book coming up, and 151 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:02,439 Speaker 1: I was like, true crime is popular for a reason 152 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 1: because it's it's it's you know, fascinating. So we're very 153 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 1: lucky in that we get to just follow our noses 154 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 1: and make stories out of the stuff that we find. 155 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 1: And that's just the benefit of having a weekly show. 156 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 1: As you guys probably understand, a few lots of episodes, 157 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:20,079 Speaker 1: you can talk about lots of stuff. Well, I think 158 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 1: de Ben's point do that unique perspective tends to be 159 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 1: more of an individualized perspective of you know, people on 160 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 1: the ground and stories that kind of get interwoven with 161 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 1: much larger political events that are beyond the control of 162 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 1: an individual. But when you see it through the perspective 163 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:35,720 Speaker 1: of that person, I think it makes it a little 164 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: more easy to kind of identify with the larger historical context. Yeah, 165 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:42,560 Speaker 1: we're very much journalists in that sense, Like we we 166 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 1: go and find subjects people who live through this stuff. 167 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 1: Like I think one of my favorites, UM was are 168 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:49,960 Speaker 1: we did a story about a lake that disappeared in 169 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 1: Louisiana and we talked to a guy who like watched 170 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 1: it happen, and you know, there was a happy ending 171 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:58,439 Speaker 1: and whatnot and uh, which maybe that's a spoiler. I 172 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 1: don't know. It happened like two years ago. But we 173 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 1: talked to like the guy who has who saw it happened, 174 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:07,680 Speaker 1: and then the author who like in the immediate aftermath 175 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 1: like flew down there and wrote about it for a 176 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:13,120 Speaker 1: magazine and that piece, you know, like only exists basically 177 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 1: the print copies that were made, like it's not nowhere 178 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 1: on one OPEC. Really fascinating to talk to these people 179 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:19,959 Speaker 1: who lived through this event kind of in two different timelines. 180 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 1: But yeah, so that's so that's that's I guess that's 181 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 1: sort of our approach. And I don't know, I feel 182 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 1: like we do get to follow our nos as we um. 183 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 1: I went to a museum like last Thanksgiving, and I 184 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 1: was like, oh, there's an exhibit about these two dogs, 185 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 1: why are they in there? And that's an episode that's 186 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:38,840 Speaker 1: coming out soon, the two most famous dogs in San Francisco. 187 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 1: I got to do a whole story about hand farts 188 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 1: and the history of hand farts. We did a Hot 189 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 1: BEV series because we were like Hot Beverages. We kept 190 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 1: coming back to it because we like we were like, okay, 191 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 1: clearly we gotta have something better, but like we kept 192 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 1: we just kept coming back. But it was like, oh, 193 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 1: this is actually kind of good, like maybe we can 194 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:00,200 Speaker 1: do this. And now it's you can listen to it 195 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:03,559 Speaker 1: on your podcast. It's three episodes on your favorite hops. 196 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:06,680 Speaker 1: Hell yeah, I feel like Hot Beverages are sort of 197 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 1: like falling out of fashion a little bit. Or maybe 198 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:10,320 Speaker 1: I don't. I gotta hear the episode. But it seems 199 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 1: like everything's ice to these days, you know, I don't 200 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 1: know true gotta have boba, you know. I think it's 201 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:18,960 Speaker 1: a it's fascinating point because it tells us that there 202 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 1: is so much history behind everything, even if you think 203 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 1: of it as something as innocuous as that little you know, 204 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 1: that little plastic, three pronged thing that goes in the 205 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 1: center of pizza like that. I'm sure that yeah, sure, 206 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:38,080 Speaker 1: pizza table, thank you. I'm sure that thing has like 207 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 1: some story. And there's some inventors somewhere who is kind 208 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 1: of low key famous in the field of pizza delivery. 209 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:47,200 Speaker 1: I could have sworn I saw a life hack of 210 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 1: what that thing is. Actually, it keeps the pizza from 211 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 1: getting crushed, right, like that's GE's gotta It keeps the box, 212 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 1: gives the box something to do with. But but surely 213 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 1: it has a secondary use, right, And it's a little yeah, 214 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:06,200 Speaker 1: you're tiny figurines. You can put a football on it maybe? Yeah. See. 215 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:09,560 Speaker 1: I like where I like the way we're all thinking. Right, 216 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 1: this is almost like one of those weird tech startup 217 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 1: interview questions what could you do with the little pizza day? 218 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 1: But the reason um at least I personally wanted to 219 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 1: ask about process is primarily because I see the explorations 220 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:38,319 Speaker 1: go deep every time and go in so many different directions. 221 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 1: So the nineteen eighty Olympics, I I'm gonna be honest, 222 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:49,080 Speaker 1: I'll be absolutely candid. I vaguely thought I think Carter 223 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 1: was president then, but I didn't know. I wasn't around, 224 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:56,359 Speaker 1: And then to hear that the US boycotted those Olympics, 225 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:59,679 Speaker 1: And as you said, like, um, what sixty five countries? 226 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 1: That that seems like a story that would have already 227 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 1: been bigger news than than I had assumed in two. 228 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:11,960 Speaker 1: But that's not the twist because our stute listeners are 229 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 1: gonna are gonna notice that you had earlier said, Lane, 230 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:21,080 Speaker 1: we were in Puerto Rico getting taped. So one of 231 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 1: the first questions they would have, right, I hope apologies 232 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 1: listeners if I'm assuming too much, but I would hope 233 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 1: one of the questions would be like, why are we 234 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 1: in Puerto Rico? Right? The sound there it is, Well, yeah, 235 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:38,439 Speaker 1: what's going on on the ground? Well, Benn and Nolf 236 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 1: and Max producer, Max, have I got a story for you? Um, 237 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:49,680 Speaker 1: the big So what if I told you, you know 238 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 1: that there was a boycott, you know, sixty five countries 239 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:55,720 Speaker 1: boycotted the nine Olympics held in Moscow, and you know 240 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:58,079 Speaker 1: the US was in charge of the boycott. What if 241 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 1: I told you American citizen went to that Olympics and competed, right, 242 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 1: blow you in mind? Yeah, that's another I don't know 243 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:09,040 Speaker 1: if we do the law and order drop or if 244 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:12,080 Speaker 1: we do the Scooby Doo, sound like we gotta do 245 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 1: the like recreated law and order. Drop. We don't have 246 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 1: the right. Yeah, we can't get we don't have the 247 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 1: rights to it. I trust your test I trust it's 248 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 1: going to come through the edit. Um. But no, this 249 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 1: is true story. This is a true story, um. And 250 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 1: it's basically it's the The athletes were three boxers from 251 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 1: Puerto Rico. They're a boxing team and they went to 252 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 1: the Olympics because they qualified, and they were like it 253 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 1: was interesting because they didn't think they were doing anything political, 254 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 1: Like they saw themselves as not political and just athletes. 255 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 1: And there was a whole thing about this. But yeah, 256 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 1: Lane and I went down to Puerto Rico with our 257 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 1: translator Alan, and we got the story. So this like 258 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 1: when you're we should mention, I believe you were you 259 00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 1: all making this during the pandemic, like during the height 260 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 1: of it, as an and we went at pandemic. Yeah, 261 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 1: we went, um in March recently, back when the pandemic 262 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 1: had its fresh car smell, right and everybody, So what 263 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 1: was when you were traveling? How did you how did 264 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 1: you find these boxers the internet? Um? I think originally 265 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 1: I like contact find or find the story. You know, 266 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:30,200 Speaker 1: I'm interested, not to be too Jodie Foster about it, 267 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 1: but I'm interested in the contact aspect. I think, uh, Basion, 268 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong. I think our producer Joe 269 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:40,680 Speaker 1: just like went really far into the Internet because, like 270 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 1: I mean, these gentlemen don't really have huge social media presences. 271 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:46,040 Speaker 1: So we have like a document with a bunch of 272 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:48,320 Speaker 1: links that are like this could be his nephew, or 273 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 1: I think this is a different like Luise, but maybe 274 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 1: we should check it out. And I think it just 275 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 1: proved really fruitful, and we got our translator slash stringer 276 00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 1: Alan to reach out and he became one of the 277 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 1: boys by the end of the trip because he was 278 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 1: just like cracking a beer with with our with our 279 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 1: subjects and yeah, shooting the ship. The beer that in 280 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 1: fact was was named for their their like athletic exploits. 281 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 1: So the beer is called Media if you've heard of it, um, 282 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 1: And it was for these three boxers because they like 283 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:21,400 Speaker 1: they were incredible boxers and they meddled at the Pan 284 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 1: American Games in which qualified them for the Olympics. So 285 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 1: the beer is called Media and it's still around and 286 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 1: you can drink it. It's actually delicious, pretty nice, lightly 287 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 1: drink so much of it. Yeah, it's fantastic. I found 288 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 1: a place in Brooklyn then has it just like a 289 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 1: random bar. It's pretty good, man. The story is actually 290 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 1: is it's very interesting. It's not just that there were 291 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 1: like US citizens going to the Olympics or that they 292 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:45,480 Speaker 1: were breaking the boycott, because obviously it's both of those things, 293 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:49,000 Speaker 1: but it's we realized in the course of telling the story, 294 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 1: it's like it's actually more of a story about international 295 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 1: politics and Puerto Rican sovereignty and like what it means 296 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:57,560 Speaker 1: to be, like what it means to compete as a 297 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:01,560 Speaker 1: nation kind of because Puerto Rico wasn't even an American 298 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 1: you know, territory or whatever it is until nineteen seventeen. 299 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:06,640 Speaker 1: I want to say, yeah, something like that. I think 300 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:09,680 Speaker 1: I believe it had to do with some there was 301 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:12,159 Speaker 1: a war and it was a spoil of war if 302 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:14,879 Speaker 1: I'm not mistaken. But yeah, despite that history, and you 303 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 1: know it was it was you know, colony the US 304 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 1: for a while, or it was there was a more 305 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:22,880 Speaker 1: colonial relationship, I should say. In any case, Puerto Rico 306 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 1: has also been competing as itself on the international stage 307 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:31,440 Speaker 1: since night, like since the Olympics, which happened immediately after 308 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 1: World War Two, but like it was one of those 309 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 1: things where it's kind of a quirk of history because 310 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 1: the reason port even gets to do that is because 311 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:42,200 Speaker 1: of one like intrepid guy at the International Olympics Committee 312 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 1: who was like, hey, it'll be told The US government 313 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:46,679 Speaker 1: was like, hey, it'll be seen as a really like 314 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 1: gracious thing for you to do. You just fought against imperialism. 315 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 1: Why are you doing this at home? You should let 316 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 1: Puerto Rico compete is itself, because they really wanted to, 317 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:55,480 Speaker 1: and that's like how that started. So Puerto Rico has 318 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:58,199 Speaker 1: its own Olympic committee and it's own Olympic team, and 319 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:01,679 Speaker 1: it's an Olympic funding which is you know, part of 320 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:04,720 Speaker 1: the reason why them deciding to defind the boycott was 321 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:08,160 Speaker 1: so dramatic. So it wasn't like they didn't get the memo. 322 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:11,720 Speaker 1: It was an active choice based on presidences. And the 323 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 1: whole thing was like the governor of the island of 324 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 1: the time. Uh, this guy named Carlos Fromier Barcelo was 325 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:20,400 Speaker 1: not happy. He was he because like the the other 326 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: thing is like this is all I'm sorry this is 327 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:24,320 Speaker 1: this is I hope this is interesting, but I'm gonna 328 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:29,320 Speaker 1: infod up first. Perfect. But the whole thing was like 329 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:31,920 Speaker 1: they're they're like three schools, three main schools. I thought 330 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 1: there are any more, obviously, but three main schools of 331 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:36,119 Speaker 1: political thought in Puerto Rico. And it's basically has to 332 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 1: do with a relationship with the US. So there are 333 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:40,880 Speaker 1: people who wanted to be a state. There are people 334 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:42,879 Speaker 1: who wanted to remain a territory. There are people who 335 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:45,679 Speaker 1: wanted to be its own nation, like its own island nation. 336 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 1: And obviously, like the stuff gets sort of worked out 337 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:50,920 Speaker 1: in political referendums here and there. But at the time, 338 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:56,360 Speaker 1: the guy Barcelo was a pro US statehood guy. So 339 00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 1: these boxers were like, Okay, we we want to go 340 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:01,680 Speaker 1: to our Olympics because we're boxers, which means we don't 341 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 1: we only get one shot because otherwise because you want 342 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:05,920 Speaker 1: to go pro and make money. Hey, but be your 343 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 1: career isn't that long, you know, even the best boxers, 344 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:10,359 Speaker 1: it's you just don't last long because you're getting hit 345 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 1: in the head all the time. And so they were like, 346 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 1: we want to go to our Olympics. And this was 347 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:16,159 Speaker 1: a big deal um and so they like sort of 348 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 1: scrounged up the money to do it, like they it's 349 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 1: like they did like bootleg kickstarter, just asking people for cash, 350 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:24,400 Speaker 1: I think. And the basketball team didn't get to go, 351 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:26,359 Speaker 1: but they were they also qualified for the Olympics. But 352 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 1: anyway they go and it's just like okay, now we're 353 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:31,960 Speaker 1: now we're athletes were competing there, but it's it's like 354 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:36,320 Speaker 1: a really really interesting story about statehood and about nationalism. 355 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:38,399 Speaker 1: And then there's the aftermath, which we also talked about, 356 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 1: but I'll leave that to Lane. And it's not like 357 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:45,640 Speaker 1: America has always done super right by Puerto Rico. That's 358 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 1: an understanding. Yeah, I mean, I know, I'm sorry I'm 359 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:52,159 Speaker 1: being diplomatic here because we're talking about diplomacy, but you know, 360 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:55,120 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't see this necessarily as an outright 361 00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 1: act of protest because it was based on precedent. But 362 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 1: do you think there was an element of protest in 363 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 1: this as well that even flew in the face of 364 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:07,919 Speaker 1: some of the people in power within Puerto Rico, as 365 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 1: you say, who had a political end of their own. 366 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:13,840 Speaker 1: I think it's for sure, and act, I mean, I 367 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 1: think our boxers would argue that it wasn't. But when 368 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:20,439 Speaker 1: we talked to them, they were mad at the U. S. 369 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:24,480 Speaker 1: Government and they still are in some ways because this 370 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:26,440 Speaker 1: was their shot, this was their chance, and they were 371 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:28,959 Speaker 1: met the U. S. Government and these political relations were 372 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:32,359 Speaker 1: meddling so much that it's impacting their personal lives and 373 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:35,439 Speaker 1: their dreams and their hopes. So I think, yeah, the 374 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 1: mere act of going it has to be a political act, 375 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:41,680 Speaker 1: even if you say it's not. Yeah, I agree with that, um, 376 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:45,080 Speaker 1: And I think it's I think notably, you can say, like, 377 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 1: even if they don't believe it, you can say that 378 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 1: it was because a lot of people in the island 379 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:51,880 Speaker 1: still remember them and like remember like what they did, uh, 380 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 1: And they mostly remember the Pan American Games where they 381 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:57,000 Speaker 1: did really well, but like people still remember the nineteen Olympics, 382 00:20:57,040 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 1: like older people like this one guy we spoke to 383 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:01,240 Speaker 1: a namation. I almost like, hell, yeah, we're so proud 384 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 1: of this guy. You know. Can we introduce our our 385 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:06,679 Speaker 1: heroes here? Um, just a little bit of background and 386 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,959 Speaker 1: names at the very least, and who these guys were. Yeah. 387 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:13,960 Speaker 1: So we three boxers. First, we got Alberto de Mercado, 388 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 1: who is our team captain in some ways. He's leading 389 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 1: the charge. He's the most bold and brash of the three. 390 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:25,760 Speaker 1: And he has a museum that we visited, his home museum. 391 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 1: He lives above it below It is this like it's 392 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:34,000 Speaker 1: this super packed museum with like newspaper clippings and awards 393 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:38,359 Speaker 1: and like just memorabilia from his you know what is 394 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:41,479 Speaker 1: it beon like forty forty years ago the Olympics happened, 395 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:45,679 Speaker 1: but also professional career too. It's kind of a shrine. 396 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:49,960 Speaker 1: That's amazing. That's I mean college a museum or is trining, 397 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:52,679 Speaker 1: But that's sort of in some ways, that's kind of 398 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:56,880 Speaker 1: a dream job, right, I live above my museum. It's 399 00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:59,359 Speaker 1: you know, I think that's kind of It's definitely interesting 400 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:01,960 Speaker 1: because the museum him was a gift from the Puerto 401 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 1: Rican government, which is complicated because that only happened like 402 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:12,679 Speaker 1: two years ago, oh yeah before. Yeah, so there's like 403 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:14,879 Speaker 1: there's a lot of feelings. They have a lot of 404 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:18,119 Speaker 1: feelings about their own government too. But our second boxer 405 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 1: is Jose Molina, who was like he was a light heavyweight. 406 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:24,320 Speaker 1: I think Mercado was like a flyweight something like that, 407 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:28,919 Speaker 1: and Mollina was the heaviest light heavyweight great boxer. But 408 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 1: he he you know, he lives like with his family. Like, 409 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 1: so one thing to understand is like they half of 410 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:40,760 Speaker 1: the stories about how they had to like live afterward, 411 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:42,920 Speaker 1: after like going to the Olympics and making this big 412 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 1: name for themselves. And the third boxer is Luis Pizzaro, 413 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 1: who was the youngest. He was like he was he 414 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 1: must have been like eighteen or something. He was like 415 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 1: sixteen at the time. He was super he was a teenager. 416 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:56,920 Speaker 1: He like, yeah, I was worried about going to prom 417 00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:59,360 Speaker 1: at that age, he's worrying about competing in the Olympics 418 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:01,560 Speaker 1: kind of thing. A real phenomen I mean, like like 419 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 1: the high hopes hi hopes for this kid. Yeah, and 420 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 1: and the geopolitical ramifications of being of being in the Olympics. 421 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 1: That's I mean, that's a trip for sure. I love 422 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:15,639 Speaker 1: you point out that a great deal of the story 423 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:20,399 Speaker 1: is about the aftermath, which we've alluded to just just 424 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:24,560 Speaker 1: a bit here. The question then becomes, like, as you said, 425 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:27,280 Speaker 1: I would agree that on some level, all acts are 426 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 1: inherently political acts, depending on the perspective when wants the 427 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:35,879 Speaker 1: place them in. But with this, what I'm hearing is 428 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 1: these three guys who are scrappy, right, and say, hey, 429 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:42,680 Speaker 1: we're not We're not giving up our chants because we're 430 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:45,040 Speaker 1: well aware of how short of boxing career can be. 431 00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:48,919 Speaker 1: They say, okay, we hear you one of the world's 432 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:54,479 Speaker 1: most dangerous superpowers, but we're going and then we're coming back. 433 00:23:55,920 --> 00:24:00,440 Speaker 1: Were there like attempts at consequences or was know Jimmy 434 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:03,160 Speaker 1: Carter's got that stereotype of being kind of a milk dose, 435 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 1: but did he was going to ask? A boycott isn't 436 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 1: inherently litigious. I mean it's more of like a symbolic act, right, 437 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 1: like is there is they're built in are they're built 438 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:15,919 Speaker 1: in consequences for defying a quote unquote boycott. It's not 439 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,120 Speaker 1: the same as like an embargo. I mean it's more 440 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:21,199 Speaker 1: of like a an agreement that you can make verbally 441 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 1: and everyone just like we're patriotic, so obviously we're not 442 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:25,880 Speaker 1: gonna do it, sort of like crossing a picket line. Yeah, 443 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:27,920 Speaker 1: I think it was like it was a soft power move, 444 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 1: like there's no they're not getting arrested when they get 445 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 1: off the plane when they come back, but like their countrymen, 446 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:36,640 Speaker 1: like a lot was at stake for them to go 447 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 1: to Russia because of the relationship with the US just 448 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:43,320 Speaker 1: like you know, like you said, like unwritten these like 449 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:47,920 Speaker 1: these unwritten laws that you're breaking because the US government 450 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:53,360 Speaker 1: is providing them federal resources like Medicare, Medicaid. Like if 451 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,400 Speaker 1: they go and they harm this relationship, then their neighbors 452 00:24:56,400 --> 00:25:00,119 Speaker 1: and their families might not have access to the the 453 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,399 Speaker 1: resources that they need. So that was kind of the 454 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 1: pushback that they were getting when they were deciding to go, 455 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:08,600 Speaker 1: and then when they came back. Um, I think there 456 00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:12,760 Speaker 1: were different camps about whether or not it was worth it. Yeah, yeah, 457 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:14,920 Speaker 1: but that there was like a real, real implicit threat 458 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,000 Speaker 1: they were getting. They were getting threats to like their 459 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:20,400 Speaker 1: um the government perto Rican government was like pressuring Mercado's 460 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:22,639 Speaker 1: parents for example, and his parents were like, you can 461 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 1: go again in four years. Just wait. Um there was 462 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:27,720 Speaker 1: at least one bomb threat. I think we we heard 463 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:30,960 Speaker 1: from them. Um Marcado lost his job and I think 464 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:35,000 Speaker 1: Molina's job was threatened to because they're not professional boxers 465 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,919 Speaker 1: at this time. They're amateurs, right, because the Olympics is 466 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:41,440 Speaker 1: an amateur It's like the Olympics is an amateur competition specifically, 467 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:43,680 Speaker 1: and so if you go pro, you can't compete the Olympics. 468 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 1: But it's this was also like I think, I think 469 00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:48,199 Speaker 1: the few years, the four years before I want to 470 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:51,840 Speaker 1: say seventy six was um like I think it was 471 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 1: one of the It was televised, and like, these boxers 472 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:57,159 Speaker 1: were boxing in front of a huge international audience, and 473 00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 1: so when they went pro after the Olympics, they got 474 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:01,280 Speaker 1: huge big are much bigger paid it. So there's like 475 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:03,439 Speaker 1: a real financial incentive to compete in the Olympics as 476 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,840 Speaker 1: a boxer because you can demand bigger purses and better fights. 477 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 1: So like and I mean, like maybe unlike other sports 478 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,679 Speaker 1: like football for example, I mean that really is the 479 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:16,080 Speaker 1: door opener for a professional career, is being a on 480 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:19,439 Speaker 1: the on the Olympic team. But like film festivals for example, 481 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:23,200 Speaker 1: they are qualifying events, Like in order to be considered 482 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,159 Speaker 1: for the oscar as, you have to win or compete 483 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,720 Speaker 1: within like some other accepted you know, film festival. That's 484 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 1: the case here as well. Can you talk about the 485 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:35,560 Speaker 1: games that led to their qualification for the Olympics. Yeah, 486 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:37,919 Speaker 1: the main ones were probably the Pan American Games in 487 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:40,720 Speaker 1: seventy nine, which happens on a four year cycle. It's 488 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 1: a it follows the Olympic charter. It's the same sort 489 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 1: of event. And I believe I think two of them 490 00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:50,560 Speaker 1: won goal. They got a bunch of medals. They came 491 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:54,119 Speaker 1: back with a couple of goals, seven medals total, couple golds, 492 00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:58,520 Speaker 1: some silver's and appreciate something like that better than I've done, 493 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,639 Speaker 1: right and name uh and it's it was. I mean, 494 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:03,160 Speaker 1: it's a big deal. It's the same, it's the same 495 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,040 Speaker 1: sort of but it's like it's it's region it's a 496 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:08,440 Speaker 1: more regional games. Um, the US does actually compete in 497 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,919 Speaker 1: the Pan American Games, so these I think one of 498 00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:15,959 Speaker 1: the subtexts is that these boxers were competing against like 499 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:19,200 Speaker 1: other American citizens in the games for like a spot 500 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,119 Speaker 1: on the podium, and all of those people who competed 501 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:23,919 Speaker 1: for the US, like the basketball team and the boxing 502 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:25,920 Speaker 1: team or whatever, they didn't get to go to the Olympics. 503 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:28,399 Speaker 1: And you know, there's a there's a really poign in 504 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 1: ESPN article about it from like the early two thousands 505 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,159 Speaker 1: that like talks to those people, those boxers, and then 506 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:35,119 Speaker 1: they're really like upset that they didn't get to go 507 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:38,359 Speaker 1: because like it derailed their careers in a in a sense, 508 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 1: I mean because you still you know, you go pro 509 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:49,679 Speaker 1: and things sometimes work out. So there's something that really 510 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:53,720 Speaker 1: catches me about this story, even just cursory looking into 511 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:56,840 Speaker 1: it before talking to the experts here on this show. 512 00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:00,639 Speaker 1: And it is exactly what you described, John, the larger 513 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:05,960 Speaker 1: context for anyone who maybe is listening and is not 514 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:12,280 Speaker 1: familiar with US Puerto Rican relationships intentions for a very 515 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,760 Speaker 1: very long time, longer than any of the five of 516 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 1: us in the show today have been alive. There have 517 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:22,680 Speaker 1: been those three camps, right, and sometimes they fluctuate and strength, 518 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:27,399 Speaker 1: pushing for statehood, pushing for remaining a territory, or pushing 519 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:31,159 Speaker 1: for independence. But I've been lucky enough to go to 520 00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:34,960 Speaker 1: Puerto Rico in the in the past, and when people 521 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:38,120 Speaker 1: are in there, I think, I think folks forget that 522 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:43,480 Speaker 1: being a territory brings its own kind of inherent baked 523 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:48,720 Speaker 1: in inequalities. Right. I'm multiple multiple levels, you know. And 524 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:53,960 Speaker 1: when we hear these boxers say, Okay, I am an athlete, 525 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 1: I am not a politician. Don't put that on me. 526 00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 1: Did you feel that they held to that that forty 527 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:04,560 Speaker 1: years on or did you feel that they they had 528 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:08,320 Speaker 1: a particular position in this regard as they look back 529 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,000 Speaker 1: on the events of I mean, I think I asked 530 00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:15,280 Speaker 1: uh Alberto if he ever considered running for office because 531 00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:18,040 Speaker 1: he was such a public facing figure. He did make 532 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:21,560 Speaker 1: these big, the big moves um on the international level, 533 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:23,360 Speaker 1: and he didn't have any interest in that. I think 534 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,320 Speaker 1: they all really wanted to be boxers because this was 535 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:30,080 Speaker 1: their their things, is their their dream. And the other two, 536 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:34,240 Speaker 1: I mean, Louise moved to Massachusetts, so he's not in 537 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:39,680 Speaker 1: Puerto Rico anymore. And Molina is perfectly content to you know, 538 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:43,440 Speaker 1: he worked a job at a shipyard and retired, and 539 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,760 Speaker 1: he helped his brother become a world champion. I mean, 540 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,960 Speaker 1: I would say he's political, but I don't think he 541 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,720 Speaker 1: you know, that's not what he wants to be known for. 542 00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:56,320 Speaker 1: I think he wants to be known for being a 543 00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 1: a prideful like a person who did his country proud. 544 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,760 Speaker 1: And his country is not the US, it's Puerto Rico. Yeah, 545 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:06,480 Speaker 1: And I believe in the the PanAm Games, the governor 546 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:08,920 Speaker 1: kind of got a bad rap because he wanted to 547 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,760 Speaker 1: fly the American flag and not the Puerto Rican So 548 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 1: that's that is a legal thing, like legally you're not 549 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,280 Speaker 1: allowed to fly the Puerto Rican flag by itself. You 550 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:20,920 Speaker 1: have to fly beside or underneath the American flag. Okay, 551 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:25,040 Speaker 1: but but still, but if it flew in the yeah, 552 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:27,080 Speaker 1: he got bood for like twelve minutes, like he couldn't 553 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:29,720 Speaker 1: give a speech. But this this also flew in the 554 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:31,720 Speaker 1: face of like, you know, all of that precedent, since 555 00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:35,080 Speaker 1: he tried to pull the stunt, you know, because Puertico 556 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:37,600 Speaker 1: again computed under its own flag for so long. I 557 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:39,360 Speaker 1: was just like, why is this guy doing this? Like, 558 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:41,400 Speaker 1: and you know, he was a pro statehood guy. He 559 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:44,680 Speaker 1: really wanted he wanted everyone to fall in line. There's 560 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:49,040 Speaker 1: a phrase that you use, soil o limbico no politico. Um, 561 00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,040 Speaker 1: can you kind of explain what that means literally and 562 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:55,400 Speaker 1: also just how that kind of translates into the trajectory 563 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,800 Speaker 1: of the story. Yeah, it means I'm an olympian, not 564 00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,960 Speaker 1: a politician. And that was a sign we saw at 565 00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,800 Speaker 1: Alberta Mercado's museum. It was kind of talked away in 566 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:08,320 Speaker 1: a corner um when we asked him about it. And 567 00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,040 Speaker 1: there's this this really interesting story about when they were 568 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,920 Speaker 1: boarding the plane to flee Puerto Rico because they needed 569 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,560 Speaker 1: to train in Mexico before the Olympics because they were 570 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:19,760 Speaker 1: afraid that if they stayed in Puerto Rico, they weren't 571 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:21,680 Speaker 1: going to be able to go, like they would be 572 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:24,880 Speaker 1: not allowed to leave. So they're boarding this plane to 573 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:28,920 Speaker 1: Mexico and a stranger walks up to Mercado and he 574 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:31,800 Speaker 1: hands them this sign and it's like the sign itself 575 00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 1: is like kind of like scrawled. It's not like great penmanship, 576 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:38,840 Speaker 1: and it's just this just random dude just made a 577 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:41,479 Speaker 1: sign and handed it to him. And then Mercado was like, 578 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:43,120 Speaker 1: I'm going to keep the sign, and he like would 579 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 1: flash it to the press and it kind of became 580 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:47,800 Speaker 1: his motto. We don't know who the guy is. So 581 00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:51,320 Speaker 1: if you're listening and you remember doing that, feel free 582 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:54,920 Speaker 1: to hit us up. We'd love to talk to you. Yes, yes, 583 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:58,840 Speaker 1: and I know we're talking extensively about this, but when 584 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:03,600 Speaker 1: you check out the way that Eclipse approaches all these stories, 585 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:07,600 Speaker 1: trust us, you're only here. You're only scratching the surface 586 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 1: right now, fellow ridiculous historians, and you need to check 587 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,920 Speaker 1: out the show as soon as you can. I mean, 588 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 1: please do us a favor and listen to the end 589 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:21,160 Speaker 1: of this episode. You know, but but but do make 590 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:23,800 Speaker 1: sure that the next podcast you listen to after this 591 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:27,880 Speaker 1: episode is eclipsed UM. There is one note I wanted 592 00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:30,560 Speaker 1: to add that I wanted to ask you all about 593 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:34,320 Speaker 1: Jean and Lane, and it's something that stood out to 594 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,080 Speaker 1: me in some of the notes that you all had 595 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:43,080 Speaker 1: sent us, UM, where you say, you know, looking at 596 00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:47,640 Speaker 1: the way the US had treated Puerto Rico over decades 597 00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:53,200 Speaker 1: and decades, it kind of could make sense to understand 598 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:57,040 Speaker 1: the perspective of why Boxers would quote unquote defy the president. Right. 599 00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 1: The line that's throughout was I'll say he wasn't going 600 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:05,520 Speaker 1: to do for Puerto Rico either way, Right, What is 601 00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,200 Speaker 1: that perspective? Was there the idea that they would somehow 602 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:11,760 Speaker 1: be awarded for falling in line or it would be 603 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,920 Speaker 1: Geo politically favorable, or were they just like these people 604 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,240 Speaker 1: don't care about is to begin that's a great question. 605 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:21,040 Speaker 1: I mean, I think I think it's the latter. I 606 00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:24,160 Speaker 1: think it's just like, yeah, you know, we we can 607 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:27,560 Speaker 1: do this, but like they don't care anyway, Why would 608 00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:29,120 Speaker 1: they care now kind of thing. I think that was 609 00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:31,280 Speaker 1: sort of the impression. There was the quesion that I 610 00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:33,600 Speaker 1: got at least of how they felt, but it was 611 00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:37,320 Speaker 1: it was very much like, you know these people who 612 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,640 Speaker 1: who are like, like, are these imperialists don't really do 613 00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:44,280 Speaker 1: anything for Puerto Rico except things that are punitive, So 614 00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:47,040 Speaker 1: why should we Why should we listen to them? Yeah? 615 00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:50,280 Speaker 1: Mercado had this quote that we didn't get to work in, 616 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:53,240 Speaker 1: but I really liked it. Where he was he was saying, Um, 617 00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:56,240 Speaker 1: the government wants the cage but not the animals, So 618 00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:58,720 Speaker 1: they want the land, they want the island, they don't 619 00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,360 Speaker 1: want the people on the island. And like being there, 620 00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:05,440 Speaker 1: I could feel that like Hurricane Maria like destroyed the 621 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:08,719 Speaker 1: island and you can still tell, like the infrastructure is crumbling, 622 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,839 Speaker 1: like their houses still boarded up, like it's a really 623 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,239 Speaker 1: beautiful island, and everyone was so kind to us and 624 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:17,759 Speaker 1: like welcoming, and I just like, I don't know. I 625 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:19,640 Speaker 1: was really glad we got to talk to people who 626 00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:21,680 Speaker 1: lived there for the story, because I think if not, 627 00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:26,160 Speaker 1: it would have felt wrong. Yeah, wasn't that when Trump 628 00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:28,000 Speaker 1: did the photo of it to where we was just 629 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:31,919 Speaker 1: like tossing rolls of toilet paper like a chump. Yeah, 630 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:34,879 Speaker 1: that was bad optics on so many levels. But then 631 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:37,719 Speaker 1: when you look at the history of the imperialism and 632 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:39,759 Speaker 1: all of that and and what you're saying, like, I mean, 633 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:42,520 Speaker 1: it really hits harder, especially if it's there. Can you 634 00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:45,239 Speaker 1: imagine optics from a bad person, I'll say it, I'll 635 00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:47,800 Speaker 1: be the one. But it exemplifies like the relationship to the 636 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:49,200 Speaker 1: the US has with the It's just that was just 637 00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:51,239 Speaker 1: a literalization of it. It's like we'll throw you some 638 00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:54,080 Speaker 1: ship and then leave and it's like not enough, and 639 00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:56,560 Speaker 1: you need more and you need like sustained help and 640 00:34:57,360 --> 00:34:59,080 Speaker 1: you know you're never going to get it. But yeah, 641 00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:01,279 Speaker 1: it was. It was again, this is this is part 642 00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:03,560 Speaker 1: of the reason the story is so interesting was because 643 00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:05,480 Speaker 1: that that's to start opening up to us as we 644 00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:07,360 Speaker 1: were down there reporting and as we were putting a 645 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:09,480 Speaker 1: story together when we got back, just like right, this 646 00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:11,279 Speaker 1: is we thought this was a sports story. This is 647 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:15,120 Speaker 1: actually a story about like what it means to like 648 00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:21,319 Speaker 1: be a colonial subject. Almost. Yeah, just so, and this 649 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,319 Speaker 1: is this is one of the things that I think 650 00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:29,399 Speaker 1: you all do so well. You finding, as you said 651 00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:31,640 Speaker 1: at the top of this episode, the story kind of 652 00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:35,080 Speaker 1: within the story, the facts that get kind of swept 653 00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:40,000 Speaker 1: away amid headlines and news cycles. And you know, I 654 00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:43,800 Speaker 1: don't want a fanboy too much, Bejan. But for people 655 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 1: who don't know, you are a pretty prolific writer, and 656 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:51,080 Speaker 1: we've been widely published in let's see, I'm gonna make 657 00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:52,799 Speaker 1: it awkward to name some things in front of you. 658 00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:57,720 Speaker 1: The believer verge g Q. I think as well, and 659 00:35:58,000 --> 00:35:59,799 Speaker 1: I do want I'm sure a lot of people want 660 00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:02,920 Speaker 1: to ask you specifically, what do you see as some 661 00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:06,640 Speaker 1: of the key differences from telling his story to print 662 00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:10,919 Speaker 1: medium in comparison to telling his story in a podcasting 663 00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:14,960 Speaker 1: audio medium like clips. That's a great question, UM, I 664 00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:17,439 Speaker 1: will say so like, yeah, I help write the show. 665 00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:20,560 Speaker 1: I've written some episodes, um, but the majority are written 666 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:23,000 Speaker 1: by UM, or at least the structure and dress written 667 00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:25,839 Speaker 1: by Mike Meyer, who is a fantastic writer. He's also 668 00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:28,799 Speaker 1: another like a former journalist. But I will say from 669 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:32,120 Speaker 1: my experience, you know, writing for print magazines and blogs 670 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:34,920 Speaker 1: and stuff over the last decade or so. UM, the 671 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:39,719 Speaker 1: differences you can't like you have to both fit in 672 00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:42,719 Speaker 1: very like you have to simplify very complex ideas, and 673 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:46,439 Speaker 1: you can't use language to like layer in many points 674 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:47,880 Speaker 1: in a sentence. You have to like you have to 675 00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:51,160 Speaker 1: like break things down to their sort of barest essence 676 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:53,160 Speaker 1: and then say that, um. And we spent a lot 677 00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:55,640 Speaker 1: of time figuring out the simplest way to say things 678 00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:57,880 Speaker 1: that still makes sense and it's still accurate and still 679 00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:01,600 Speaker 1: you know, but like it's it's difficult. I think the 680 00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:03,080 Speaker 1: thing that I've learned is I have a lot of 681 00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:06,920 Speaker 1: respect for people who write podcasts. Uh. And it's well, 682 00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:08,760 Speaker 1: it's not to say you can't like skim an article, 683 00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:11,879 Speaker 1: but you certainly can. But like listening, sometimes people will 684 00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:14,680 Speaker 1: listen a little passively or while doing other stuff, so 685 00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:17,319 Speaker 1: you have to like things have to be pretty dense, uh, 686 00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:19,640 Speaker 1: in terms of like grabbing you and making you pay 687 00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:23,040 Speaker 1: attention and giving you the information you need relatively quickly 688 00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:25,160 Speaker 1: in case you drift off. And you also kind of 689 00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:27,640 Speaker 1: sometimes have to real people back in and remind people 690 00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:31,000 Speaker 1: exactly it's it's it's I think it's exemplified by like 691 00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:33,520 Speaker 1: This American Life, because they that that's a radio show, right. 692 00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:35,400 Speaker 1: They have all these hooks for people to get into 693 00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:38,200 Speaker 1: the episodes, and I've always admired how they they layer 694 00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:41,000 Speaker 1: those in. Luckily, you know, I think podcasting is obviously 695 00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:43,040 Speaker 1: people drift off or whatever. But our episodes are like 696 00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:46,239 Speaker 1: fifteen minutes long, so it's not like you know, if 697 00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:48,600 Speaker 1: you if you miss something, it's you can go back 698 00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:53,960 Speaker 1: and get it or you're not. We have recaps, you know. Yeah, 699 00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:57,000 Speaker 1: and we're and we're uh we I know we've been 700 00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:59,800 Speaker 1: going a little bit long, but we were so excited 701 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:03,319 Speaker 1: who explored this story with you all today? You've been 702 00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:07,440 Speaker 1: so generous with your time. Uh, and we if we 703 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:10,440 Speaker 1: want to first thank you for classing up our little podcast. 704 00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:14,640 Speaker 1: Uh so can you tell us? Can you tell us 705 00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:18,040 Speaker 1: each Lane and Bijade a little bit more about where 706 00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:21,359 Speaker 1: people can find your work and find you online if 707 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:24,240 Speaker 1: they'd like to learn more about your process? Great question. 708 00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:28,600 Speaker 1: Yeah for sure. Yeah you can find me online, um 709 00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:31,640 Speaker 1: at Bijean Stephen most places B I, J, A N 710 00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:34,479 Speaker 1: S T pH N. It's like Twitter or Twitch or whatever. 711 00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:36,760 Speaker 1: But yeah, I'm I'm online and know my work. Usually 712 00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:39,520 Speaker 1: I collected on my website, which is in my Twitter buyer. 713 00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:41,319 Speaker 1: If you google me, you find it. It's like it's 714 00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:45,560 Speaker 1: not that hard to find. And I'm at Lane Gerbig 715 00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:49,400 Speaker 1: on Twitter. Um, and that's I mean, you can google it. 716 00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:51,520 Speaker 1: But I used to have website. I didn't pay for it, 717 00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:55,759 Speaker 1: so good luck. Well, it's a website. Lately people call 718 00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:59,280 Speaker 1: them like micro site I have, I have a tumbler. 719 00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:05,200 Speaker 1: It's like, it's fine, It's just like but you know, 720 00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:08,120 Speaker 1: like we said, I mean, listening to the episodes, you're 721 00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:10,400 Speaker 1: gonna get a lot more perspective outside of what we 722 00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:12,920 Speaker 1: talked about here today. We're not giving you kind of 723 00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:15,480 Speaker 1: the big final conclusion here. We just wanted to kind 724 00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:17,279 Speaker 1: of tee it up and talk about some of the 725 00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:19,640 Speaker 1: ways that you guys find your stories and you tell 726 00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:22,080 Speaker 1: your stories and you know, introduced us to your characters. 727 00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:26,680 Speaker 1: But please go check out this episode and the show immediately. Yeah, 728 00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:29,880 Speaker 1: thanks for having us. Yeah, of course. And uh, folks, 729 00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:32,880 Speaker 1: we're gonna be tuning into Eclipse just like you. We 730 00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:38,160 Speaker 1: Uh we didn't try to negotiate for spoilers on future 731 00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:42,520 Speaker 1: seasons or episodes. We'll be listening along right there with you. 732 00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:46,239 Speaker 1: Thanks as always to our super producer Mr Max Williams, 733 00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:50,360 Speaker 1: Jean Lane, Thank you so much. Thanks of course. Uh no, 734 00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:52,600 Speaker 1: should we rattle off the list, Oh you know what 735 00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:55,200 Speaker 1: we should have done. We should have had Jonathan Strickland 736 00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:59,239 Speaker 1: on a tuister. We don't want to know. It's fine. 737 00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:01,280 Speaker 1: It's it's fine that we didn't do that, but thanks 738 00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:04,319 Speaker 1: to Alex Williams have composed our theme. Max Williams of 739 00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:07,600 Speaker 1: the Williams tribe, who is our super producer. We've already thanked. 740 00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:11,080 Speaker 1: Christophrostiot is here in spirit, Eve's Jeff Coat who else 741 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:13,640 Speaker 1: all the hits um But you can also find Ben 742 00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:16,000 Speaker 1: and E's individuals on the Internet. I am on Instagram 743 00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:19,120 Speaker 1: exclusively at how now Noel Brown Ben Where can folks 744 00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:23,120 Speaker 1: find you? If you want a preview of the strange 745 00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:26,080 Speaker 1: things I'm getting into both on this another shows as 746 00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:28,720 Speaker 1: well as my adventures as long as I can legally 747 00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:31,200 Speaker 1: post them. You can find me on Instagram wearing a 748 00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:33,680 Speaker 1: burst of creativity. I'm calling myself at Ben Bulling b 749 00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:35,560 Speaker 1: A W L I N. You can find me on 750 00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:39,200 Speaker 1: Twitter where I'm at Ben Bulling h s W because 751 00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:42,319 Speaker 1: there was another been bowling. I know you man, I'll 752 00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:47,279 Speaker 1: find you. It's got a doppelganger lurking Max. Max, You're 753 00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:50,080 Speaker 1: on Twitter as well. That's that's the main, the main 754 00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:52,719 Speaker 1: reason people go to Twitter nowadays. You can find me 755 00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:55,520 Speaker 1: on Twitter at et l Underscore Max Williams, where I 756 00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:58,280 Speaker 1: will mostly just read tweet stuff about sports and troll 757 00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:02,200 Speaker 1: Ben Bulling because, to be honest, he fully meets it. Well, 758 00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:05,480 Speaker 1: you're you're gonna troll Lane and John after this, I 759 00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:12,040 Speaker 1: would absolutely not the lovely people. I followed both of 760 00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:17,240 Speaker 1: them on Twitter, but no, no, I would not troll them. Alright, everybody, 761 00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:19,799 Speaker 1: stay tuned for our next episode, where we're diving into 762 00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:23,240 Speaker 1: the story of Nancy. Wait, we'll see you next time, folks. 763 00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:35,239 Speaker 1: For more podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit the I 764 00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:38,200 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to 765 00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:39,160 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.