Speaker 1: Of the Law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies.
Speaker 3: These episodes are based on. These are our stories.
Speaker 1: Done done, Hello and welcome to That's Messed Up NSVU podcast.
Speaker 3: I'm Kara Klank.
Speaker 2: And I'm Lee's a Tragger coming to you live from
Speaker 2: New York City.
Speaker 3: Oh, we're by coastal Babies.
Speaker 2: And even though it is in the top intro thing,
Speaker 2: we always like to explain we talk SVU, we talk crime,
Speaker 2: we have a guest, and we really love this podcast.
Speaker 1: I like to imagine people are tuning into episode number
Speaker 1: seventy for their first taste of this podcast, so we
Speaker 1: always to explain what it is.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they love just this specific episode and they only
Speaker 3: watched this one. Listen. Life is good.
Speaker 2: I do have to update everybody and say I've fallen
Speaker 2: twice since last week. Oh my gosh, I sprained my
Speaker 2: ankle Friday, south by Southwestern and alley walking like fully,
Speaker 2: I felt my ankle give out, fell fell on my
Speaker 2: knee again like like I have a mark, not big,
Speaker 2: you know, it wasn't like bleeding. And then last night
Speaker 2: I got a little sauced whatever I'm eating pizza. I
Speaker 2: finally got to go to Prince Street Pizza. We're all
Speaker 2: having fun. I turn around. I didn't see there was
Speaker 2: a ledge. Fully fell again on my knee.
Speaker 3: Like another huge fall.
Speaker 2: But everyone made fun of me because immediately got up
Speaker 2: and goes.
Speaker 3: I fell again. I can't stop falling. I don't know
Speaker 3: what it is.
Speaker 2: I feel it's the Kerry Bradshaw Karma episode where with
Speaker 2: a dorm room party and she falls. I just I
Speaker 2: don't know why I keep falling.
Speaker 1: You know, I feel as though you're cosmically connected to Rosie,
Speaker 1: and Rosie has not stopped falling in a week, like truly,
Speaker 1: you know, we have one step in our house. There
Speaker 1: is one step in our house. It's like in the hallway.
Speaker 1: It just goes from one. It is a dumb stack,
Speaker 1: just stupid. But she's been around, she's been walking in
Speaker 1: her whole life. Yesterday just fell doing it, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. Like she just keeps falling. But for her,
Speaker 1: I think it's a growth spurt. For you, I don't
Speaker 1: know what the fuck is going.
Speaker 2: Well, well, she's obviously my tether is what I'm learning,
Speaker 2: and so that's why I'm falling.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: Yes, when you gave her a Daniel tiger sleep, Matt,
Speaker 1: you guys got tethered, and now you're she's.
Speaker 3: Like your voodoo doll. Baby.
Speaker 2: I can't wait for her birthday party. I know, you know,
Speaker 2: we're trying not to do gifts. We're not doing stuffies.
Speaker 2: I might go shop in my garage. I might see
Speaker 2: what I have been there. You know she loves knickknacks. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think maybe I'll get her a bag of used
Speaker 2: nick knacks, just to save the environment but keep keep
Speaker 2: my girl happy.
Speaker 3: Well, well, I was gonna.
Speaker 2: Try to make your husband mad and get her temporary tattoos.
Speaker 3: But you said she doesn't like it. Well no, yeah,
Speaker 3: he wouldn't even care.
Speaker 1: But like, yeah, I put one on her and she
Speaker 1: goes cool, can you take it off now? Like she
Speaker 1: just did not want it the second I put it on,
Speaker 1: so you know, but she did the same thing when
Speaker 1: I painted her nails. She goes, Okay, take it off now,
Speaker 1: Yeah that's annoying. Anyway, let me do a little bit
Speaker 1: of Let me do a little bit of announcement before
Speaker 1: I before I forget, because I just want to So
Speaker 1: we told you guys about San Francisco. That link is
Speaker 1: now live. Please buy tickets to our San Francisco show.
Speaker 1: We're so excited. You guys begged for it, We gave
Speaker 1: it to you.
Speaker 3: Let's go.
Speaker 1: The other announcement is that our show this coming week
Speaker 1: at Dynasty Typewriter in Los Angeles is going to be
Speaker 1: live streamed. We have not announced this on the podcast yet,
Speaker 1: We've only announced it on our socials. So if you're
Speaker 1: one of our listeners that doesn't follow us on Instagram
Speaker 1: or Twitter, now you know you can go to That's
Speaker 1: Messed Up Live dot com and click on the LA
Speaker 1: show and you can buy tickets for the live stream.
Speaker 1: It is on YouTube, so you can watch it anywhere
Speaker 1: in the world. If you're one of our UK or
Speaker 1: Canada people that couldn't watch our first live stream, you
Speaker 1: can watch this one because it's YouTube. There is going
Speaker 1: to be a chat so you guys can all chit
Speaker 1: chat and have fun with each other and talk and
Speaker 1: we're going to be reading your chat like at the
Speaker 1: show as well. And it's our only show we're going
Speaker 1: to live stream from the tour, so and I also
Speaker 1: want to mention we are doing different episodes at every
Speaker 1: city stop. So even if you're coming to Denver or
Speaker 1: you're coming to like Tempe, Hey, maybe you want to
Speaker 1: see what we're doing in La.
Speaker 3: It's a totally different episode.
Speaker 1: And yeah, the live stream is also good for seven days,
Speaker 1: so I know it's like, if you live in New York,
Speaker 1: you don't want to watch it at one am. I
Speaker 1: get that, but it's good for seven days. Wake up
Speaker 1: on Sunday, drink your coffee, watch a little a little murder,
Speaker 1: you know, Oh.
Speaker 3: My god, while you were is that it for announcement? Yeah,
Speaker 3: it really kills it. Well, let me give you a
Speaker 3: shout out.
Speaker 2: I don't know if any of you know how many
Speaker 2: emails it takes to do anything, but Kara has answered
Speaker 2: all of them. So thank god the tour is happening.
Speaker 2: It would not have happened if she did not keep
Speaker 2: responding to the countless fucking emails, particular links and post.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a lot of logistics, a lot of
Speaker 1: moving parts.
Speaker 2: Please like, keep supporting us so we can get an assistant.
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't even know what else to say.
Speaker 2: We can't Kara cannot keep answering these emails.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to hire Rosie soon. No, And then
Speaker 1: I one more thing I was gonna say is there's
Speaker 1: like a handful of tickets left for LA. Please help
Speaker 1: us sell out. If you haven't bought your LA ticket yet,
Speaker 1: please come, there's only a few left. And then yeah,
Speaker 1: obviously come join us on the live baby, and that's it.
Speaker 3: Tell me what else is going on? You were in text?
Speaker 2: Well, guess so I met yesterday Miss Cracker. Uh, but
Speaker 2: I flailed and lost it and I know her. I
Speaker 2: went up to her and I was just like, oh my,
Speaker 2: I like I couldn't get it together and I don't
Speaker 2: really know why. I mean, I know, and I was like,
Speaker 2: I am so so I'm nervous and she looks at
Speaker 2: me and I go, but I know, mateo.
Speaker 3: And then whatever, Yeah, I kept name dropping mateo.
Speaker 2: I couldn't get a sentence out, and Miss Cracker went,
Speaker 2: I'm just a man in address, there's no reason to
Speaker 2: be nervous.
Speaker 1: And also, Miss Cracker, it is truly five feet tall,
Speaker 1: the smallest person, yeah, like so diminutive, like not scary.
Speaker 1: While she was in full drag though at a party
Speaker 1: where no one else I mean maybe the star of
Speaker 1: the hour.
Speaker 3: I went to.
Speaker 2: I got to go to Cat Cohen's like Netflix special
Speaker 2: premiere gathering, and it was a Who's who. I'll tell
Speaker 2: you that it was really wild, but that crazy bitch.
Speaker 2: Her signature drink was a martini. A man left in
Speaker 2: an ambulance. People were out of their mind. The signature
Speaker 2: drink was martini. I mean, a recipe for disaster. I
Speaker 2: can't even Everyone was just losing it on these martinis
Speaker 2: all night long.
Speaker 3: It was really wild.
Speaker 1: I'm like, you classy bit, yeah, that's but also so chaotic.
Speaker 3: So chaotic. Miss Cracker, though, is cool.
Speaker 1: Like I helped Miss Cracker on a improv challenge that
Speaker 1: she won, and she like thanked me afterwards. She's like,
Speaker 1: you really got me out of my head. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for your help on this, and you'll love this.
Speaker 1: Ms Cracker for you anything for a fellow jewis well?
Speaker 3: Okay, wait, do you follow each other?
Speaker 2: Can you message her and apologize that I couldn't stop stuttering?
Speaker 3: No, I don't follow her. I'm not.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I don't know cut this or not.
Speaker 3: We're all having.
Speaker 1: Fun, I say, if we're gonna chat about drag, this
Speaker 1: season is killing me.
Speaker 2: Well, I didn't watch the one Friday, but I obviously
Speaker 2: someone's golden ticket came out.
Speaker 3: I'm assuming no someone again it No, nope, there was
Speaker 3: no fucking golden ticket and no one got sent home. Nope.
Speaker 1: Why it's like a setup for Okay, if you haven't
Speaker 1: wont if you're not caught up on drag Race, please
Speaker 1: I want to know. Yeah, yeah, if you're not caught
Speaker 1: up under I don't want anyone to spoil. Also, this
Speaker 1: comes out after the next episode will have already happened,
Speaker 1: so I'm like, this will be kind of moot, but
Speaker 1: we love to talk about shit. We're on the time machine.
Speaker 1: So basically, they bombed snatch game. They did bad, like
Speaker 1: all of them, Like the only person that did well
Speaker 1: won the whole challenge and the rest of them are
Speaker 1: in the bottom. So rub basically said, next week, you're
Speaker 1: all lip syncing for your life.
Speaker 3: But it's gonna be like Lolla Perusa or whatever they
Speaker 3: did before.
Speaker 1: Okay, just leading it into that instead of eliminating someone.
Speaker 1: But I really hope there's like a double elimination. It
Speaker 1: makes me feel like the show's gonna go on until
Speaker 1: the like fucking fall. I mean, it's like, no one's
Speaker 1: gone home and like it's crazy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm and they all just.
Speaker 1: Did super bad on Snatch Game, like George just did
Speaker 1: a lot of Glazer. It was not good, Like you
Speaker 1: just gotta watch it. I cannot wait. Yeah, it's just
Speaker 1: wild to me. You've watched fourteen thirteen seasons of this show.
Speaker 1: You've watched five seasons of All Stars, six six seasons
Speaker 1: of All Stars.
Speaker 3: You know what snatch game is.
Speaker 1: Get a bunch of your friends together, brainstorm workshop, figure
Speaker 1: out how you're gonna kill the snatch game. Like it
Speaker 1: doesn't seem call mateo.
Speaker 2: Yeah you're all happy with Mateo, Like why yeah, why
Speaker 2: wouldn't you work with someone?
Speaker 3: But yeah, but I don't.
Speaker 2: I think I get it because if I got on Survivor,
Speaker 2: I would not learn how to make a fire before
Speaker 2: I got and then everyone would be like why didn't
Speaker 2: you learn to make a fire, And I'd be like
Speaker 2: I didn't want to, Like I get it, Like I
Speaker 2: don't know if I would learn to sew, I don't know. Yeah,
Speaker 2: well that's why I can't fully juge. Just so learning
Speaker 2: to make a fire, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Those are like, yeah, I get learning to make a
Speaker 1: fire's not that hard, but learning to sew seems very
Speaker 1: hard to me at least, but like, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's just like figure out with your friends, like an accent,
Speaker 1: you can do a voice, like it's just you know.
Speaker 1: What's also tough is that you're not allowed to be
Speaker 1: any fictional characters. You have to be like real people,
Speaker 1: and there's just not that many real people that are
Speaker 1: that big of a character or that interest you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, Like, but.
Speaker 2: You make them interesting because like I'm sorry, Adele is
Speaker 2: not like ha, you know, but Gingerminge killed.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Adele's pretty funny.
Speaker 1: But yeah, he say, like it's like when they do Gaga,
Speaker 1: when three of them do Gaga, Gaga's not really a
Speaker 1: big personality.
Speaker 3: There's not like a thing where you're like, oh, that's
Speaker 3: but I believe that I can make Gaga fun. I do.
Speaker 2: I think there's ways to make Gaga funny and silly
Speaker 2: and weird.
Speaker 3: He's weird.
Speaker 2: If you saw her Thanksgiving special or her banter, She's
Speaker 2: a fucking psycho. Her movements are nuts. Like, there are
Speaker 2: ways to do it. They're just like comedy is hard.
Speaker 2: I mean at the end of the day, yeah, of course.
Speaker 3: Of course, but you also have to come in with
Speaker 3: multiple jokes.
Speaker 1: You have to come in not just going, oh this
Speaker 1: person does this, you have to come in with multiple
Speaker 1: things that they do.
Speaker 3: Anyway, I'm here as.
Speaker 2: Your stating to be in the moment because RuPaul does lobby,
Speaker 2: lob him up, lob them up. You know, like, yeah,
Speaker 2: RuPaul is on your side. It hard Listen if any
Speaker 2: drag queens are listening to this, I mean, I think
Speaker 2: Shay listens.
Speaker 1: Sometimes some other queens might listen. If you get on
Speaker 1: drag Race, I will be your snatch game consultant. I
Speaker 1: will help you figure something out. Please contact me DM me.
Speaker 1: My dms are open. Lisa, what were you gonna say?
Speaker 1: I'm well, not as good as this. So do you
Speaker 1: remember last year you're in a half quote whatever. A
Speaker 1: book came out.
Speaker 2: Amy Beth Sall put it together and it was like
Speaker 2: thee hundred and fifty Funniest Girl Comics, and it was
Speaker 2: all these stories and drawings and it was like a big.
Speaker 3: Notes on a bathroom the bathroom line or whatever. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So I got to meet her, and as I said,
Speaker 2: the martinis were pouring, and I did say, I go.
Speaker 2: You know, when the book came out, I was a
Speaker 2: little bit like where am I and I got to
Speaker 2: kind of confront her and it felt funny. I said,
Speaker 2: that's very funny.
Speaker 1: But I saw I knew some female comedians who spiraled
Speaker 1: that they were not in that book.
Speaker 3: I know I was.
Speaker 2: Some were not taking it well, no, and everyone was great.
Speaker 2: We were talking about all the artists, but I was like,
Speaker 2: you know, I did. I was like one hundred and
Speaker 2: fifty I didn't even make and she goes, I know,
Speaker 2: it was tough.
Speaker 3: There's so many cool ones.
Speaker 1: I wish this and that, and there were I mean
Speaker 1: there were like big names that don't do comedy at all,
Speaker 1: you know, like so well, we can't all be in everything.
Speaker 1: But it was just funny to be able to be like, oh,
Speaker 1: I noticed bitch and I did take note on a
Speaker 1: bathroom line that I was not in it.
Speaker 3: But yeah, it was cool.
Speaker 2: All these like Princeton people were at the I don't know,
Speaker 2: you're your friends with summer camp and college you guys
Speaker 2: keep Yeah, most of my friends I would say I
Speaker 2: met in comedy.
Speaker 1: That's yeah, not all industry people. It was like lots
Speaker 1: of hours.
Speaker 3: But because and you.
Speaker 2: Guys might know this because you listen to our podcast,
Speaker 2: but I listened to all these people's podcasts, and so
Speaker 2: it is crazy to meet people and be like, well,
Speaker 2: I know you're in couple's therapy, so how's that going?
Speaker 2: Like I'm like, so you did antal with your boyfriend?
Speaker 2: I heard that, how did it go?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 2: It is why you just know so much about all
Speaker 2: these loose people. They are guests on podcasts or you
Speaker 2: listen to their podcasts and you have to kind of
Speaker 2: keep it tight. But the Martinez very blunt. It was
Speaker 2: a blunt party.
Speaker 1: Surprised that did not devolve into like a full orgy
Speaker 1: that sounds so crazy.
Speaker 2: Not a full orgy, but definitely like we were all
Speaker 2: we had to like pull a person who could not stand.
Speaker 2: But we're all theater kids, so it was like eight
Speaker 2: of us trying to very one little man.
Speaker 3: It was like it was make a gurney.
Speaker 2: And if you guys don't know Cat Cohen Special, our
Speaker 2: amazing friend who did our theme song for this podcast.
Speaker 2: Henry Koperski is the musical director of that special. He
Speaker 2: plays the piano, so you get to see him sitting.
Speaker 2: He like co wrote the songs, so shout out to
Speaker 2: Henry as well. It was so looking like a Kendall
Speaker 2: fucking cutie and brought insomniac cookies.
Speaker 3: That's a stock.
Speaker 1: I used to live around a corner from one of those.
Speaker 1: He's so talented.
Speaker 3: Yeah, guys, check out Cat Cohen special on Netflix.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to think of his south By Southwest story.
Speaker 2: It is such a giant festival. But I truly I did.
Speaker 3: Do a zoom.
Speaker 1: I did do a zoom with Lisa by the pool.
Speaker 1: She was very living her best life.
Speaker 3: Cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, working at a cabana pool is awesome. But I
Speaker 2: felt like all the other south By douches. We were
Speaker 2: all just like douche on our zoom calls at the pool.
Speaker 2: But it's, you know.
Speaker 3: Well that's kind of good though.
Speaker 1: I don't want to be somewhere where people are relaxing
Speaker 1: and I'm on a zoom call. Like I'd rather we
Speaker 1: all be on the fucking zoom calls.
Speaker 3: We're all the worst people, you know, Yeah, we all
Speaker 3: just can't take a break.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, it's you know, it basically goes elon Musk,
Speaker 1: the guys who found a Google Lisa trigger. I mean
Speaker 1: it's like this, these are the great tech minds that
Speaker 1: are at south By, so they need.
Speaker 2: To know the audience. Are so many tech people. I
Speaker 2: did meet Bever's his name is John, but from Broad City.
Speaker 3: Remember I know John Gemberling very well. We've known each other. Oh,
Speaker 3: oh amazing.
Speaker 2: I don't know him at all, and I just went,
Speaker 2: I know you from television, points right at him.
Speaker 3: But then we became friends. So that was he. And
Speaker 3: I met Danielle Schneider from Bitch. Oh yeah, she was
Speaker 3: yeuse because her husband goes there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they brought their daughter, who had a giant
Speaker 2: bow and I got to be like you a Jojo
Speaker 2: Sewa fan and uh so I got to bond with
Speaker 2: their daughter.
Speaker 3: Today.
Speaker 1: They recently did a live show and Sydney came out
Speaker 1: on stage in New York to like, I think like
Speaker 1: a couple thousand people like the daughter like came out
Speaker 1: and did like a they do like reenactments of housewives
Speaker 1: and stuff.
Speaker 3: We could do that on our podcast.
Speaker 1: I think they would just be sad, but they do
Speaker 1: that on their podcast and it's funny. And I think
Speaker 1: the little girl like did a part and it sounded
Speaker 1: I don't I mean, I obviously wasn't there, but it
Speaker 1: sounded really cute.
Speaker 3: So she wasn't mean age with.
Speaker 2: A map, but yeah, I was like, I'm a Bravo
Speaker 2: girl and it was very thrilling to chat.
Speaker 3: A little bit.
Speaker 2: But it sounds like a lot of fun, not so great,
Speaker 2: and it's just a lot of us haven't seen each other.
Speaker 2: Like I didn't see any movies, I didn't go to
Speaker 2: any bars, I didn't go dancing. I sat in like
Speaker 2: the lounge and just like talk to everyone that I
Speaker 2: was so excited to see and our friends, and I
Speaker 2: want to give a shout out to I would say,
Speaker 2: one of the best photographers in the whole world, Mindy Tucker.
Speaker 2: Like I was not feeling my best. I didn't feel
Speaker 2: that cool. And then one moment in front of her
Speaker 2: camera and I looked at the photos and I go, oh, okay,
Speaker 2: I'm changing.
Speaker 3: No, you look awesome in her photos. She is. She
Speaker 3: is incredible.
Speaker 1: She's you're on the East call my headshots of my
Speaker 1: first like six headshots before I moved to La.
Speaker 3: She's she was invited to my.
Speaker 1: Wedding, she just couldn't come because she was shooting another wedding.
Speaker 1: Like she's a friend of mine and I love it.
Speaker 3: It was awesome to see.
Speaker 2: Her and you get to catch up while she's shooting you.
Speaker 3: And that was very truly the best She's in.
Speaker 2: Between the falls. That was the big, the big thing
Speaker 2: for me, and I think I met some.
Speaker 1: Listening in between the falls, the highlights in between falls,
Speaker 1: the Lisa trigger story.
Speaker 3: Okay, but well listen, listen.
Speaker 2: And I did have an espresso martini at the four seasons. Listen,
Speaker 2: I am I'm doing. Someone had a prettium, someone had
Speaker 2: a pretty am.
Speaker 1: Well, let's get started, because this episode is a classic.
Speaker 3: I'm so excited. We've wanted to do it for a
Speaker 3: very long time.
Speaker 2: And happy porum to everyone, and let's get fucking started.
Speaker 3: All right.
Speaker 1: We are talking today about Control season five, episode nine,
Speaker 1: clearly a banger of a season. Lisa, this is our
Speaker 1: even episode from season five.
Speaker 3: Wow. When I was going through, I was like, wait,
Speaker 3: we've done that long, We've done that.
Speaker 1: I was like, damn, We've done a lot from this episode,
Speaker 1: I mean, this season. So we get an opening card
Speaker 1: on this episode that says, although inspired in part by
Speaker 1: a true incident, the following story is fictional blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: And I wonder why sometimes they have this card and
Speaker 1: other times they don't. We'll have to ask Neil, like,
Speaker 1: I wonder how much information, like what percentage of information
Speaker 1: has to be ripped in order for them to give
Speaker 1: you this little although inspired in part.
Speaker 2: By I've actually never noticed that I have.
Speaker 1: I've noticed it a few times, like sometimes they'll be like,
Speaker 1: it's like crazy to me, because it's like some episodes
Speaker 1: it's like this is Michael Jackson, this is Woody All
Speaker 1: and like you're not, like no, you're fooling no one,
Speaker 1: you know. And so I don't even know if those
Speaker 1: come with those. We'll have to see when we cover those.
Speaker 1: But so we start on an escalator going down into
Speaker 1: the subway where there's this little cutie holding hands with
Speaker 1: her grandpa and he is played by none other than
Speaker 1: Mickey hargatea father of RISHKAHARGAATEA Wow, that is her father,
Speaker 1: and he didn't do really much acting, it looks like
Speaker 1: according to his IMDb after the early seventies, so this
Speaker 1: was probably just like a fun thing to do with
Speaker 1: his daughter.
Speaker 3: And then he died in two thousand and six, a
Speaker 3: few years later. So I love this. So the little
Speaker 3: girl's like Grandpa who made the world.
Speaker 1: It's a little bit too precocious almost, and he's answering
Speaker 1: her and it's really cute because he's like some people say,
Speaker 1: it's God, some people. And then we're sort of flashing
Speaker 1: on a man who's coming to the up escalator and
Speaker 1: he's like moaning in pain.
Speaker 3: We don't know what's going on with him, and.
Speaker 1: He's getting closer and closer to passing them, and the
Speaker 1: little girl's like, I think Bob the Builder made the world.
Speaker 3: That's his job. And it's like, okay, cute little shout
Speaker 3: out to Bob the Builder.
Speaker 1: And then right when the grandpa and the little girl
Speaker 1: are getting close to this man, the grandpa notices that
Speaker 1: the guy is covered in blood from like in his
Speaker 1: genital region, and he screams, Oh my god. And then
Speaker 1: the man stumbles back to the bottom of the escalator.
Speaker 1: And it's very dramatic and it reminded me of the
Speaker 1: subway stop. I think it's like Lexington in fiftieth or
Speaker 1: something where it's like just.
Speaker 3: A million escalators.
Speaker 1: You feel like you're coming up from the center of
Speaker 1: the earth, you know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: It's like I'm not even scared of heights, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: don't look back, it's like too many escalators and by Bloomingdale's.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: So now we cut to CSU on the scene and
Speaker 1: I believe it's a CSU. Captain Judish Cipher on the
Speaker 1: scene again, and Marishka is questioning her dad and it's
Speaker 1: really cute and they kind of have like matching swoopy
Speaker 1: hair in it, and I really am loving it. And
Speaker 1: he tells Olivia the whole story, and then he says
Speaker 1: he called nine one one, and when she said, did
Speaker 1: he say anything, the guy said, he just kept saying
Speaker 1: it's a mistake. It's a mistake. And now Stabler is
Speaker 1: on the scene and he's got the victim's name. His
Speaker 1: name is Horace Gorman and the actor that plays him
Speaker 1: is named Austin Pendleton. And I feel like I've seen
Speaker 1: this man my entire life in different stuff. He's got
Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty five credits. Interesting credit. One of
Speaker 1: them is he plays Gurgle and Finding Nemo and Dory,
Speaker 1: all of those movies he plays one of this fish
Speaker 1: called Gurgle. That's his voice. He's also in Oz My
Speaker 1: Cousin Vinnie, Short Circuit and one of my favorite movies
Speaker 1: of the eighties, hello again with Shelley long obsessed with
Speaker 1: this movie and he's basically all over the place working
Speaker 1: and then Stabler is in here with the big pre
Speaker 1: credits reveal Gorman's penis and texticles were cut off and
Speaker 1: they are nowhere to be found.
Speaker 3: Done done, and now on them. Baby. So it's one
Speaker 3: of those.
Speaker 1: I think we've had more than one person get their
Speaker 1: dick chopped off, Like definitely, there was I think in
Speaker 1: one of the first episodes ever.
Speaker 3: The pilot season one, Baby.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, he gets his uh dick, either dick's stash's
Speaker 1: or criminal yeah from Serbia or something. We've had some
Speaker 1: other pedophiles on the show that cast straight themselves to
Speaker 1: get out of like for parole reasons or something.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but we've seen missing We've heard missing family jewels,
Speaker 1: puns from these guys.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, there's also one where it's like an old
Speaker 2: teacher that molested a bunch of the girls and they
Speaker 2: saw him in a hotel room.
Speaker 3: They chop they castraight him.
Speaker 4: Mmm.
Speaker 3: So yeah, there's been some dicks. There's been a few
Speaker 3: cut penises on this show for sure.
Speaker 1: So in the hospital, Gorman is sitting up in bed
Speaker 1: talking to the cops with one of these cartoony like
Speaker 1: all the way around the nog and bandages, which I
Speaker 1: just am always like what is that? What's happening? And
Speaker 1: he doesn't remember anything that happened. He just remembers stepping
Speaker 1: off the train onto the platform and then that was it,
Speaker 1: and he said everything else is a bore, and they go, well,
Speaker 1: you were.
Speaker 3: Saying it was.
Speaker 1: It's a mistake. It's a mistake. What did you mean,
Speaker 1: And he goes, I must have been delirious. The last
Speaker 1: thing I felt was something hitting the back of my
Speaker 1: head and then darkness. But he does remember, and suddenly
Speaker 1: he's like, I remember nothing, and then it's like, but
Speaker 1: I remember this very specific detail. He remembers an unhoused
Speaker 1: man in black rags ranting and about a Judas tree
Speaker 1: and other like religious stuff, and then he starts to
Speaker 1: get upset and is like I'm not a man anymore,
Speaker 1: and he's all like crying and upset. So back at
Speaker 1: the precinct, Olivia is like looking at all the info
Speaker 1: on the board and she's kind of like, maybe he
Speaker 1: wanted to be castrated, Like the emmy said. It was
Speaker 1: cut with something sharp like a scalpel, like this was
Speaker 1: obviously like maybe he went in for some kind of
Speaker 1: you know, penis removal, which is a wild way to
Speaker 1: go Olivia. I feel like it's like, let's wait till
Speaker 1: we get the tapes before we decide that this guy
Speaker 1: maybe wanted his dick cut off.
Speaker 3: But Munch suggests that it might be part of a cult.
Speaker 1: And of course he knows everything about history and is
Speaker 1: like Roman priests men used to get castrated for divine status.
Speaker 1: Like again, this guy doesn't seem happy that his penis
Speaker 1: is gone, right, he didn't see like, oh it was
Speaker 1: my it was my dick. Surgery went wrong. Oh no,
Speaker 1: Like he seems like he would like to have it back.
Speaker 1: So Daddy Craigan is like, so he was either snipped
Speaker 1: by a homeless guy or he had a voluntary penectomy.
Speaker 1: Not a word I get to use every day, and
Speaker 1: I just I love a Captain Craigan Zinger. And I
Speaker 1: never really heard the name penectomy. I guess castration is
Speaker 1: really about cutting off your balls, right, and then penectomy
Speaker 1: is the penis.
Speaker 3: So we learn something new every day.
Speaker 1: The lowdown on Gorman is he's sixty two, single and rich.
Speaker 1: He retired at thirty and he invented the games where
Speaker 1: you play games on bottle caps underneath bottle caps, and
Speaker 1: Finn goes, I never went at that, and Munch is like,
Speaker 1: cause it's a scam dum dumb, Like it's a cute
Speaker 1: little interaction.
Speaker 3: And then Munch obviously is.
Speaker 1: On the net googling castration and finds some guy up
Speaker 1: in Riverdale who does this, and I keep thinking like,
Speaker 1: can you check the tapes, like where are the tapes
Speaker 1: from the subway? And then Craigan is like, did we
Speaker 1: get the tapes yet? And they're still waiting for them
Speaker 1: to be sent, So in the meantime he wants to
Speaker 1: keep everyone busy, so he's like, Ben's in his stable,
Speaker 1: or go check with CSU about this unhoused man.
Speaker 3: Maybe that's a lead.
Speaker 1: And then Munch and Finn go up to that dick
Speaker 1: chopper in Riverdale. So at the doctor's house, this is
Speaker 1: like a full just Red Herring is that is silly.
Speaker 1: He shows them where he cuts the dicks off and
Speaker 1: it's on his kitchen table, which is so nasty. But
Speaker 1: he's like, I still realize it first, and it's like,
Speaker 1: still you eat at the same place where you chop
Speaker 1: off peenies, but.
Speaker 2: Like, to me, it's like, how badly do you need
Speaker 2: to chop your dick off that you're going to do
Speaker 2: it at some dermatologists, septometrists whatever. He is, Yeah, on
Speaker 2: a kitchen table, Like I'm just trying to understand, and
Speaker 2: it's hard for me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I'm sure it's like he just takes cash.
Speaker 1: You don't have to go to the doctor and deal
Speaker 1: with it. I don't know what people. Some people are
Speaker 1: probably I don't know why you want to get your
Speaker 1: dick cut off. I'm sure there's a fucking reddit subreddit
Speaker 1: about that. I really do think there probably is, and
Speaker 1: I will look for it. He shows Finn his license,
Speaker 1: and Fins like you're an out or Munch his license,
Speaker 1: and Munch is like, you're an allergist, and then he
Speaker 1: goes he has a point. He goes, if you ask
Speaker 1: me to beat you up and I beat you up,
Speaker 1: am I committing a crime? If these guys want their
Speaker 1: dicks cut off?
Speaker 3: I do it?
Speaker 1: Like, so you know, it is a free country, I guess,
Speaker 1: although I still think, yeah, I don't know if you're
Speaker 1: allowed to do that with just a medical license. I
Speaker 1: think you have to have an like I don't think
Speaker 1: my mom can just perform open heart surgery because she's
Speaker 1: a pediatrician, you know what I mean. I think you
Speaker 1: have to have other certifications. But this guy doesn't seem
Speaker 1: to think so. So they show him Horus and he's like,
Speaker 1: I've never seen him before, and then it's like a
Speaker 1: dead end. So Benson is Stabler are now at the
Speaker 1: crime scene, the subway platform with Judith Cziber, and she's
Speaker 1: showing them the footprints and she's like, look, these footprints
Speaker 1: are Gorman shoes. They lead back to this construction area
Speaker 1: at the end of the platform. There's a pool of
Speaker 1: blood here, but it's unfortunately an area that's out of
Speaker 1: range for the cameras. So they think, okay, maybe this
Speaker 1: unhoused guy jumped him and then took off down the
Speaker 1: abandoned tunnel. And another cop calls out and he goes,
Speaker 1: I found blood drops down in the tunnel and there's
Speaker 1: a bunch of encampments set up there for like where
Speaker 1: unhoused people live.
Speaker 3: It's a lot of people.
Speaker 1: And so then this side cop who's there grabs this
Speaker 1: unhoused woman and she's like struggling against him, and look
Speaker 1: who it is. It's Abigail Savage from Orange is the
Speaker 1: New Black, and she played the masturbator in Sugar and
Speaker 1: she goes on to become Sister Nina in later SVU episode.
Speaker 1: So she's an SVU champ and this is her first
Speaker 1: SVU episode. And when I was looking her up, I
Speaker 1: noticed that she has one hundred and five credits as
Speaker 1: a sound editor and a sound engineer, so she just
Speaker 1: I guess before she started acting, she just was doing
Speaker 1: sound and then was like, maybe I'm gonna do a
Speaker 1: career change.
Speaker 3: And I love that.
Speaker 1: So she tells them her name is Dot, and Olivia's like,
Speaker 1: did you see anyone come down here this morning? And
Speaker 1: She's like, one of my favorite names, Dot. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: is a cute name. I my friend has a Dot daughter,
Speaker 1: but she's Dorothy and she's actually Dorothy Rose, which I'm like,
Speaker 1: two golden girls might be overkilled, but Dottie's very cute.
Speaker 1: She says, I can't tell you. He'll cut my eyes out,
Speaker 1: and she explains that Samuel sees everything and that she
Speaker 1: saw him earlier. His hands were bloody and he said
Speaker 1: he got an offering a human sacrifice. So she They're like, well,
Speaker 1: where can we find Samuel, and she's like, Samuel lives
Speaker 1: down below at the Grand Center. And now we're in
Speaker 1: this huge, like underground village where all these on house
Speaker 1: people live. Like I don't know how where they shot this,
Speaker 1: but it's like multiple levels, people in their own little areas,
Speaker 1: lots of garbage, campfires and stuff. It's like a full
Speaker 1: community down here. And this is when I noticed that
Speaker 1: the other cop that they're with is Ben Bailey, host
Speaker 1: of Cash Cab and a stand up comedian.
Speaker 3: I didn't notice that that's fucked up. There's so many
Speaker 3: people in this episode that are famous. It's graazy or
Speaker 3: like famous. To me.
Speaker 2: I've like sat you know, like he's a seller person,
Speaker 2: so I've sat with him on many of occasions. Did
Speaker 2: not catch this. For one second I knew.
Speaker 1: I was like, he's familiar. Who is that guy? And
Speaker 1: then I was like, oh my god, it's fucking Ben
Speaker 1: Bailey who used to follow me on Twitter and I
Speaker 1: have no idea why, but uh, he might not anymore anyway,
Speaker 1: So why would he unfollow you?
Speaker 3: Did you guys fight?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I thought he was one of those like Tay Diggs
Speaker 1: people that was just following a lot of people because
Speaker 1: we've never met, you know. But I always remember this
Speaker 1: city like this, like little unhoused city in the bowels
Speaker 1: of Grand Central that they're talking about, and I would
Speaker 1: always think about it when I road the subway. I'd
Speaker 1: be like, I wonder how far deep down is like
Speaker 1: the Grand Center, you know.
Speaker 3: So I actually looked into it. And this is based
Speaker 3: on the so.
Speaker 1: Called Mole people quote unquote, who live in an abandoned
Speaker 1: section of New York City subway system which is called
Speaker 1: the Freedom Tunnel.
Speaker 3: And it's actually not under Grand Central.
Speaker 1: It goes from Penn Station and it stretches up past Harlem,
Speaker 1: which is a lot of blocks that's like, off the
Speaker 1: top of it, eighty blocks.
Speaker 2: What's fucked up and scary is when sandy or storms
Speaker 2: and rain happens, like what happens to these mole people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, hopefully people come through and say, like there's a
Speaker 1: big storm coming like that.
Speaker 3: I don't know, I mean, who knows.
Speaker 1: But so there was a documentary about this in two
Speaker 1: thousand by Mark Singer called Dark Days, and it followed
Speaker 1: a group of people living down there. And then there
Speaker 1: was another book by tiun Votin called Tunnel People, and
Speaker 1: he lived with them for five months, and it's about
Speaker 1: all the inhabitants of the Freedom Tunnel. So there's more
Speaker 1: information if you want to learn about this, but this
Speaker 1: is based on like a real thing.
Speaker 2: I also love that we're like being careful, I being
Speaker 2: like and our unhoused neighbors.
Speaker 3: And then we're like and these mole people.
Speaker 5: I know.
Speaker 1: I well, that's why I said quote unquote, because that's
Speaker 1: like what they're called, Like that's what the documentaries call
Speaker 1: them and stuff, so you know. But then mole people
Speaker 1: also has a second definition because it's in like science fiction.
Speaker 1: There's something about mole people. So that's that's separate, that's
Speaker 1: not these people. So Ben Bailey, as we're walking through
Speaker 1: the Grand Center is giving us the scoop on Samuel,
Speaker 1: and he's like he's been living underneath Grand Central for
Speaker 1: years and this guy just happens to know exactly where
Speaker 1: Samuel's like area is. So maybe this man is like
Speaker 1: a transit cop or something. And they go into Samuel's
Speaker 1: little home and he's not there, but live spots fresh
Speaker 1: blood leading to a paper bag that is being held
Speaker 1: by a mannequin in its hands. And this reminds me
Speaker 1: I I talk about it all the time. It does
Speaker 1: remind me of Silence of the Lambs when they go
Speaker 1: to the storage unit and they see all that freaky
Speaker 1: shit in the storage unit and they find Benjamin.
Speaker 2: I don't know if we've talked about this, but have
Speaker 2: you seen the tweet Like Silence of the Lambs really
Speaker 2: ruined it for nice people and casts that need help
Speaker 2: pushing a couch into a truck?
Speaker 3: Yes, so true.
Speaker 1: So I can't hear the song American Girl by Tom
Speaker 1: Petty without thinking of somebody getting shoved into a truck. Yeah, like,
Speaker 1: because that's what she's listening to right as she pulls up.
Speaker 3: Anyway.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's how we feel about stuck in the middle
Speaker 2: with you. You know that ear chopping moment in Reservoir Docs.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I know the soundtrack. I've never actually seen
Speaker 1: that movie.
Speaker 3: Oh good one. I know I've done it, and I
Speaker 3: know he's acting.
Speaker 2: It's like Harvey Kaitel and that other guy at the
Speaker 2: tim Roth or whatever.
Speaker 3: So good. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm a huge Tarantino person. I met him one time
Speaker 1: and he got mad at me. Did I tell you?
Speaker 3: Wait? Did you?
Speaker 1: I escorted him on Conan and he was so nice
Speaker 1: to me, and then it was Christmas and when I
Speaker 1: feel like I've talked about this either on this podcast
Speaker 1: or another one. But when we got him down to
Speaker 1: the street level for him to leave his car was
Speaker 1: just like stuck in traffic and He's like, where's my car, Cara,
Speaker 1: And I was like, it's coming. It's like it's like
Speaker 1: a block away, like the guys. I'm on the phone
Speaker 1: with the guy, like he's coming. But he was like
Speaker 1: piss because people were starting to mob him and I
Speaker 1: was like, I'm really sorry.
Speaker 3: I'm really sorry he was, but he was nice to me.
Speaker 3: In the end.
Speaker 1: It was fine, But what can I do. I can't
Speaker 1: move New York City traffic around thirty Rock, you know. Anyway,
Speaker 1: at Christmas anyway, they go into this bag that this
Speaker 1: mannequin is holding and we have found mister Gorman's family
Speaker 1: jewels or whatever they want to call it. They're his
Speaker 1: dick and balls are in this bag and suddenly a
Speaker 1: trash campfire blazes and Ben Bailey turns around and goes
Speaker 1: it's him. And it's like very cinematic, like.
Speaker 3: In Jurassic Park. It's like when the t Rex shows up, like.
Speaker 1: And Samuel is like up on some kind of high
Speaker 1: platform and he's like ah, and then they flash their
Speaker 1: flashlights on him and that like spooks him and he
Speaker 1: runs for it. Stabler chases him, sacks him. They take
Speaker 1: off his goggles and he's like in pain from the
Speaker 1: light of the flashlight and he's like begging them like,
Speaker 1: please don't take me into the light. Like, so this
Speaker 1: man has something going on and he's got like white, white, white, white,
Speaker 1: pale skin. So the next scene, Samuel is cuffed to
Speaker 1: a wall in an interrogation room and Huang enters and
Speaker 1: he turns the lights down and then he turns them
Speaker 1: all the way off, and that's when Samuel kind of
Speaker 1: like is like I'll talk and he's like, my name
Speaker 1: isn't Samuel, It's Samuel. And Huang, of course, who knows
Speaker 1: everything about everything, is like h Lucifer before he was
Speaker 1: in heaven when he was still an angel, and Samuel
Speaker 1: is like, God wants Samuel to return to heaven, but
Speaker 1: he belongs to the darkness, and Huang asks do you
Speaker 1: talk to God?
Speaker 3: And he says no. God sends his.
Speaker 1: Arch angel who brings me offerings, and she was wearing
Speaker 1: a white hood and she cares is a shining sword.
Speaker 1: She cut the limb from the Judas tree, so hints, hints,
Speaker 1: hints all over the place from Samiel Hwang steps out
Speaker 1: of interrogation and talks to Benson and Stabler, and he's like,
Speaker 1: I think Sam. I think Sammy Sam has a genetic
Speaker 1: disorder called porphyria, which is light sensitivity and could be
Speaker 1: responsible for his abdominal pains and possibly his delusions as well.
Speaker 1: And Huang's like, it's possible he's violent, but the light
Speaker 1: literally hurts him, So I really don't think he would
Speaker 1: have stepped out into the subway platform to cut someone's
Speaker 1: dick off, Like your flashlight was bothering him, So I
Speaker 1: don't think he would have been able to handle like
Speaker 1: subway fluorescent lighting. And just then Craigan lets us know
Speaker 1: those tapes are finally here. Thank God. I'm like waiting
Speaker 1: for these tapes. So now they're watching the tapes. It
Speaker 1: shows Gorman getting off the subway strolling down the platform
Speaker 1: when suddenly a woman in a white puffy coat with
Speaker 1: the hood up confronts him and then she follows him
Speaker 1: down the They talk for a few seconds, and then
Speaker 1: she follows him down the platform, but her head is
Speaker 1: tilted down and we never see her face. It's almost
Speaker 1: like she knows that there are cameras and we never
Speaker 1: see her face. And Live is like, uh, well, Gorman
Speaker 1: clearly lied to us. Let's go talk to him, like
Speaker 1: he spoke to this woman on the platform. But the
Speaker 1: hospital just called and told them that Gorman has checked
Speaker 1: himself out against medical advice. So we go to his apartment,
Speaker 1: this fancy rich man who's retired since for thirty years.
Speaker 1: Let's go check out his beautiful apartment. So the doorman.
Speaker 1: You can tell it's a nice building because the doorman
Speaker 1: is like in a full uniform, and he's like, uh.
Speaker 2: That's the dream of mine. I wanna I wanna have
Speaker 2: a door guy and I want to be friends with him. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that'd be nice. And give him a nice Christmas present.
Speaker 3: Oh cash, you're supposed to tip, I read.
Speaker 1: I'm sure you'd give something else too, though, I'm sure
Speaker 1: you'd be like, I know your son like soccer.
Speaker 3: Here's something I found on EDS.
Speaker 1: Please you'd give one other thing besides the cash. So
Speaker 1: the guy he opens the apartment for Benson and Stabler,
Speaker 1: and when they get in there, it is full hoarders,
Speaker 1: like this guy has stacks and stacks of newspapers and magazines.
Speaker 1: It's really nasty looking. He's got toilet paper, like all
Speaker 1: this shit. So the doorman they're like, oh, does he
Speaker 1: have a woman in his life? And the Dorman's like, no,
Speaker 1: he's a confirmed bachelor. And I'm like, what a weird concept.
Speaker 1: I'm a confirmed bachelor.
Speaker 3: I don't know. But they're like, that's weird that he's
Speaker 3: a bachelor.
Speaker 1: Because Stabler flips open the first thing he sees and
Speaker 1: it's a photo album of a woman in a wedding dress,
Speaker 1: and so he's like, well, I see that he's been married.
Speaker 1: And then Live finds two more and realizes that all
Speaker 1: these women are wearing the same wedding dress and a
Speaker 1: dog collar. And Live sees one of the brides and
Speaker 1: is like, holy shit, I know this girl. She came
Speaker 1: into the squad four years ago and told me she'd
Speaker 1: been kept in a dungeon by some freak and forced
Speaker 1: to marry him. And Live is like, I didn't believe
Speaker 1: her because she was drunk, and it's always sad. Live
Speaker 1: makes those mistakes. Yeah, yeah, we expect yeah from her.
Speaker 1: She's not a perfect person, but she does we do
Speaker 1: expect more, and she's believed wilder people. I mean, she's
Speaker 1: believed people that were in the middle. I mean remember
Speaker 1: the fucking episode with Amanda Plumber where she's in a
Speaker 1: full uh, she's in a full manic episode and like
Speaker 1: they believe everything she's talking about, you know. So anyway,
Speaker 1: a top of AC two, we find out this woman's
Speaker 1: name is Hillary Barclay. And then so four years ago
Speaker 1: she got into a car with this guy on a
Speaker 1: rainy night. He locked her up for three months and
Speaker 1: then just let her go, which is pretty wild, and
Speaker 1: he blindfolds her and then drives her around and then
Speaker 1: just dumped her somewhere.
Speaker 3: He just let her out. And Craigan asks if live
Speaker 3: checked it out, and she was like, there was nothing
Speaker 3: to check.
Speaker 1: She just said it was a white, older male driving
Speaker 1: a dark Tudor like and he's like, you didn't buy
Speaker 1: her story, and she's like, I wish I had. And
Speaker 1: then Munch and Stabler are backing her up, being like, no,
Speaker 1: I remember her. She was drinking, drugging incoherent. Meanwhile, I
Speaker 1: don't remember people like, no, that's not true. I remember
Speaker 1: like everybody that I meet, but I don't remember. So
Speaker 1: many things that happen or what people told me, and
Speaker 1: it's just wild that they're like, oh, yeah, four years ago,
Speaker 1: I remember this girl drinking drug and you know whatever,
Speaker 1: she was incoherent. And then they said she also had
Speaker 1: a court date that she'd missed for a drug charge,
Speaker 1: and they thought she might be making up this whole
Speaker 1: abduction thing as a way to be like, that's why
Speaker 1: I miss my court date. And so they also reveal
Speaker 1: that Hillary's mother is Juliet Barclay and Craigan goes the
Speaker 1: supermodel and I just love the idea that Craigan just
Speaker 1: knows who all the models are. And they find out
Speaker 1: that she now owns and runs an antiquity shop on
Speaker 1: Madison Avenue. So we cut to the shop and Juliet
Speaker 1: is played by gorgeous Jacqueline Bassett, who is It's weird.
Speaker 1: She's a very famous British actress. And I've known who
Speaker 1: Jacqueline Bassett was my entire life, but I look at
Speaker 1: her IMDb and I'm like, I don't even know what
Speaker 1: I've watched that she's been in, Like she's been in
Speaker 1: so much, but like I remember her mostly from this
Speaker 1: episode as an older person, but I think my dad
Speaker 1: also used to say she was really gorgeous or something
Speaker 1: like I remember him telling me she was beautiful or something.
Speaker 1: But she's in the original Murder on the Orient Express.
Speaker 1: And she's also in this movie called Airport, which is
Speaker 1: a disaster movie and was one of the first big
Speaker 1: movies that brought in like disaster movies, and she played
Speaker 1: a pregnant stewardess carrying Dean Martin's baby, which I love.
Speaker 1: She's also Angelina Jolie's godmother. Also, this is kind of
Speaker 1: cool and I thought you would like this Lisa. She's
Speaker 1: seventy seven years old. She's had all these romances with
Speaker 1: like wealthy men, but she's never been married, and she's
Speaker 1: child free, and she's just like I never wanted any
Speaker 1: of that stuff.
Speaker 4: I have.
Speaker 3: The people she had romances with.
Speaker 1: It's like high profile Moroccan architects or like you know,
Speaker 1: real estate people, you.
Speaker 3: Know what I mean.
Speaker 1: It was like never I mean maybe there were actors,
Speaker 1: but not in what I was reading about her, And
Speaker 1: I didn't do a deep dive. But she's like Brian Saftie. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I just think it's cool that she was like I
Speaker 1: wanted to be an actor and like, this is what
Speaker 1: means the most to me, and I didn't really need
Speaker 1: that other stuff, Like I don't think I could have
Speaker 1: done that stuff well and still done my craft well,
Speaker 1: which I think you can. But she didn't think she could,
Speaker 1: so she didn't do it. So she's in her shop
Speaker 1: being like, I don't talk to my daughter. She's got
Speaker 1: a very posh accent, and she's like, if this is
Speaker 1: another one of her schemes, you guys better skid atle
Speaker 1: She hasn't talked to Hillary in two years, and she
Speaker 1: said Hillary was a junkie who stole from me, wrecked
Speaker 1: my marriages, told out rageous lies, and my pregnancy with
Speaker 1: her ended my modeling career.
Speaker 3: Ouch. And she's like, back then, women didn't have a choice.
Speaker 3: So she clearly has like a lot of resentment towards
Speaker 3: her daughter.
Speaker 1: And they tell her, hey, guess what that story about
Speaker 1: her being kidnapped by a psycho and kept hostage was true,
Speaker 1: and she looked shocked, and she's like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: Like you can tell you can see the regret on
Speaker 1: her face. And she's like, she wrote me a letter
Speaker 1: about a month ago. I've got an address for her
Speaker 1: on the Lower East Side So now they're at her
Speaker 1: apartment Lower East Side and the door opens and it's
Speaker 1: Samantha Mathis and I recognized her from the photo, but
Speaker 1: now we're seeing her in person. Superstar of the nineties,
Speaker 1: like she was in Pump Up the Volume, so many
Speaker 1: cool movies.
Speaker 3: I grew up like watching her.
Speaker 1: She also dated like tons of cool guys like Christian Slater,
Speaker 1: River Phoenix, like she was like a hot it girl
Speaker 1: and is still working constantly. And this is her first
Speaker 1: of three episodes of s View she's been on, and
Speaker 1: she always plays like a significant part, so she's an
Speaker 1: SVU legend. And she looks at Olivia remembers her immediately
Speaker 1: and is like pissed, like what the hell are you
Speaker 1: doing here? I remember you, And they're like, well, your mom.
Speaker 1: We talked to your mom. That's how we found you.
Speaker 1: And she's like, screw my mom and screw you, and
Speaker 1: she walks back into the apartment, but leaves the door
Speaker 1: wide open for them to follow her, which is a
Speaker 1: weird move, and Stabler's like, we know you were telling
Speaker 1: the truth, and she's like burning incense and she's got
Speaker 1: a big Buddha on her coffee table, like I think
Speaker 1: she's trying for like very he's zen vibes and she's
Speaker 1: telling them like, I'm sober now, I'm trying to get
Speaker 1: my life together. And she's skeptical about talking to the
Speaker 1: cops though rightfully so she's like, what are you gonna
Speaker 1: do anything about it?
Speaker 3: On like last time?
Speaker 1: And then they mentioned that they know who the guy is,
Speaker 1: and she's like, oh my god, who is it? Like
Speaker 1: tell me everything, and they're like, well, we obviously can't
Speaker 1: tell you anything, but they need her alibi for the
Speaker 1: night that he was attacked, and she says, I was
Speaker 1: at an NA meeting. Olivia asks her about the details
Speaker 1: of where she was held and she goes. She starts
Speaker 1: like she walks to the window and is giving like
Speaker 1: a tearful monologue about like you know, her captivity, and
Speaker 1: she's like, he called it his party place or maybe
Speaker 1: party palace.
Speaker 3: Did I write that wrong?
Speaker 1: Anyway, he called it his party something and it was
Speaker 1: a hell hole, And she said, I thought I was
Speaker 1: going to die there. I would have tried to kill him,
Speaker 1: but there was a combo lock on the door, so
Speaker 1: if I had attacked him, I would have been like
Speaker 1: stuck there forever, there were no windows, and it was
Speaker 1: like a cold and damp basement, and she heard chanting
Speaker 1: in a strange language, like some kind of Satan Tannic cult.
Speaker 1: So these are the details, and so Munch when they
Speaker 1: go back to the precinct, and Munch has discovered that Gorman,
Speaker 1: despite being a Christian, has given a lot of money
Speaker 1: to the Jews, specifically to a synagogue on the Lower
Speaker 1: East Side. He funded a restoration and supervised a restoration
Speaker 1: of this synagogue and lives like the chanting. And I
Speaker 1: just think, lol, that Hebrew sounds like a Satanic cult,
Speaker 1: Like I grew up going to Hebrew school singing all
Speaker 1: these songs and people are like Satanic cult.
Speaker 2: Well, anything sounds like a call if you don't know
Speaker 2: what the hymning is, if you're like lock in the baseman,
Speaker 2: just hear people, you know, all together humming, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, oh yeah, I could get that guy who knew.
Speaker 3: Where she grew up.
Speaker 2: Maybe she didn't go to Bot mitzvas all the time,
Speaker 2: but in New York, Well she grew up in New York, right,
Speaker 2: you are you're avoiding about Mitzvah if you're not going
Speaker 2: to want in New York.
Speaker 1: So they go to this temple where he had supervised
Speaker 1: this restoration, and they're talking to the rabbi and this
Speaker 1: man is played by Pierre Epstein, who you may also
Speaker 1: recognized as Charlotte's rabbi from Sex and the City.
Speaker 3: He's in like three episodes of Sex and the City.
Speaker 1: It when like during her conversion it yeah, and he's
Speaker 1: I've seen him and other stuff too, this man, and
Speaker 1: he's going on and on about oh Gorman, like we
Speaker 1: love him. He saved our temple, like we gave him
Speaker 1: on supervised access to the whole shool.
Speaker 3: And then it's like uh oh.
Speaker 1: Finn rolls in and he's got major info and he's like,
Speaker 1: I've been here before.
Speaker 3: My parents brought me here.
Speaker 1: It wasn't always a temple, it was a church, and
Speaker 1: it was a stop on the underground railroad. So it's like,
Speaker 1: now we know there are tunnels, let's get going. So
Speaker 1: downstairs we're in the tunnels. We've immediately got that ominous
Speaker 1: dripping noise that I talk about all the time, like drip, drip,
Speaker 1: You're always going to find something bad when you hear
Speaker 1: the dripping. CSU Captain Ciper's with them using a machine
Speaker 1: like which they used in another episode that we that
Speaker 1: we the one where the guy was behind the wall. Anyway,
Speaker 1: it's like to detect if there's like a void hind
Speaker 1: a wall, and so she finds this big wall and
Speaker 1: she goes, there's a hidden there's a space behind here,
Speaker 1: like there's a big void here, so obviously a hidden
Speaker 1: room of some kind.
Speaker 3: We got two cops.
Speaker 1: I don't know they did not give these guys enough
Speaker 1: direction because I'm watching these two cops just like very
Speaker 1: casually sledgehammer a wall. They didn't seem like they had
Speaker 1: much urgency to their mission. But they finally get through
Speaker 1: and inside it's like a nightmare cell, but it's not unlike.
Speaker 3: Things we've seen before.
Speaker 1: There's like a bucket toilet, you know, a dirty fridge
Speaker 1: and microwave, a bed, like an old ass TV with
Speaker 1: bunny ears, so like we've seen these kind of cells
Speaker 1: before where unfortunately men are always holding women. And then
Speaker 1: they turn the light on and that's when they notice
Speaker 1: a girl in a bron underwear just chained to the wall,
Speaker 1: which is super fucked and there is a tunnel exit
Speaker 1: that they find that leads right to the street.
Speaker 3: So this is like a perfect setup for a psycho.
Speaker 1: He's got his own entryway to go in, bring these girls,
Speaker 1: do what he wants with them, and then bring them out.
Speaker 1: And obvious when he was discovered, he came back and
Speaker 1: bricked up this wall with his last victim inside it,
Speaker 1: which is so horrifying that he was just gonna leave
Speaker 1: her there to die. Well, yeah, because it adds to it,
Speaker 1: because that's the thing, like he is, he is releasing
Speaker 1: these women. He's not quote unquote a murderer, but he
Speaker 1: knows there's someone in there, and he was willing to
Speaker 1: let her die, Like, yeah, are you a murderer?
Speaker 3: But I it's just it's all fucked. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think maybe he was just like scrambling because now
Speaker 1: he knows the cops are eventually going to find out
Speaker 1: what's up with him.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I've said this before and I'll say it again, Like
Speaker 2: why can't you just make the room nice? Like I
Speaker 2: don't get it, Like you can't just put them on
Speaker 2: toilet in there that flushes. It's just so annoying. I
Speaker 2: guess the flushing is annoyed.
Speaker 1: Well, but that's a whole and that's a whole plumbing issue.
Speaker 1: But like, yeah, I get why it has to be
Speaker 1: the worst possible way to live. Yeah, yeah, it's horrific,
Speaker 1: like a pillow would kill you.
Speaker 3: Like I just I don't get it right.
Speaker 1: Right, And Munch finds all this guy diaries too, because
Speaker 1: of course all these psychos they diary and they fucking
Speaker 1: chronicle every awful crime that they do because I don't
Speaker 1: know what they think. They're like Stephen King of their
Speaker 1: own crimes. And when we are back at the precinct,
Speaker 1: we find out that the victim that they found is
Speaker 1: dehydrated and pretty sick, so they won't be able to
Speaker 1: talk to her for a while, but it sounds like
Speaker 1: she's gonna make it, which is good news. And Kang
Speaker 1: is explaining, you know, he's doing his psychological profile of Gorman,
Speaker 1: and he's like, by marrying these women, he owns them.
Speaker 3: And Stabler's like, yeah, this.
Speaker 1: Guy is a collector, like he collects toilet paper, magazines, women,
Speaker 1: and this very much. If you haven't watched Dexter new
Speaker 1: Blood and you are planning to watch it, please fast
Speaker 1: forward thirty seconds. This reminds me of this guy in
Speaker 1: Dexter new Blood who is collecting women.
Speaker 3: He kills them and then he like embalms them.
Speaker 1: So he can collect them in literal trophy cases, like
Speaker 1: he's collecting women.
Speaker 3: So one of the wildest twists, Like that's the thing.
Speaker 2: Like Dexter new Blood definitely had moments where I was taken.
Speaker 3: Out or didn't love it or was it and then
Speaker 3: but always.
Speaker 2: So twisted, twisted and good and pushes it to the limits.
Speaker 1: And that kill Room was so good. It's just I
Speaker 1: love it. And we'll see, We'll see what happens next season.
Speaker 2: You know, Michael Shall has a concert with his band
Speaker 2: March twenty second at zebulon Do we like the music?
Speaker 3: I don't know, but I'm going okay.
Speaker 1: So liv notices as she's going through the pictures of
Speaker 1: the bride, She's like, hold on a minute. The dungeon
Speaker 1: that we just discovered has stone walls because it's a basement,
Speaker 1: and the wedding photos here are taken against a plaster wall,
Speaker 1: so uh, he must have brought them somewhere else to
Speaker 1: marry them. Like, and then in walks Lauren White, who
Speaker 1: is a recurring character, but I believe this is her
Speaker 1: first episode, and she is she knows Elliott, and they're
Speaker 1: very they're chumming right away. She works for the NYC
Speaker 1: Administration of Children's Services. So she tells Elliott, I've got
Speaker 1: a client, seventeen year old who reported being raped in
Speaker 1: a dungeon. Her name is Neva. So now we're in
Speaker 1: interrogation with Niva. She's played by Kelly Stewart, who has
Speaker 1: been in all kinds of shit like The Hot Tub,
Speaker 1: Time Machine, Movies on My Block, Chicago, med etc. And
Speaker 1: she's explaining how Gorman made her call him sir, and
Speaker 1: he said that he owned her, and he made her
Speaker 1: keep diaries of everything she did, when she ate, when
Speaker 1: she peed, when he had sex with her, although I
Speaker 1: mean it is rape, but and now we are basically
Speaker 1: cutting back and forth between Olivia reinterviewing Hillary and Niva
Speaker 1: being interviewed by Stabler, so we're seeing that their stories
Speaker 1: match up exactly pretty much.
Speaker 3: And she said, he took me to a ratty hotel.
Speaker 1: The manager saw and Sir said if I screamed, he'd
Speaker 1: kill my family. So, you know, typical stuff we hear
Speaker 1: all the time that he's going to kill my family.
Speaker 1: And he called the room the honeymoon suite. There were candles, flowers,
Speaker 1: cheap champagne, and then he took pictures and told her
Speaker 1: that they were man and wife. He made a toast
Speaker 1: and then said it was time to consummate the marriage,
Speaker 1: and he raped them. So Hillary remembers hearing bullhorns like
Speaker 1: they were near the river and helicopters. So the you
Speaker 1: know kings of New York City geography, the SVU sixteenth
Speaker 1: Threecinct all put their heads together and they're like, this
Speaker 1: sounds like one of those single room occupancy hotels on
Speaker 1: the West Side near Chelsea Piers, which is funny because
Speaker 1: they're probably literally at Chelsea Piers while they're talking about this,
Speaker 1: and then he's like, that's got to be what it is.
Speaker 1: Let's go wait, where's live And then they say, oh,
Speaker 1: she walked out with Hillary a while ago, and Stabler's like, well,
Speaker 1: we can't wait on her, let's just go.
Speaker 3: So they go to the Lydia Hotel and the desk
Speaker 3: clerk like.
Speaker 1: Wants a bribe, and instead he gets a headlock from Finn,
Speaker 1: which is another fun I like when Finn takes matters
Speaker 1: into his own hands.
Speaker 3: He's like, I'm not giving you twenty dollars.
Speaker 1: I'm going to put you in a headlock, and then
Speaker 1: he the guy is like yeah, Gorman's well. They show
Speaker 1: him a picture of Gorman and he's like, yeah, he's here,
Speaker 1: but he's busy, and so they run up there. When
Speaker 1: they bust open the door, Olivia is standing over Gorman's
Speaker 1: dead body, bloody in the bed or maybe on the ground,
Speaker 1: and Stabler is like what the fuck, and Live is
Speaker 1: like he was dead when I got here.
Speaker 3: And it's sketchy.
Speaker 1: It is like they purposely the show makes it sketchy,
Speaker 1: like lives by herself, like why wouldn't she have called
Speaker 1: for backup? You know? Like then she kind of walks
Speaker 1: out of the room, like I don't want to talk
Speaker 1: about it with you anymore.
Speaker 2: They can make it as sketchy as they want, But
Speaker 2: I have no doubt in my mind that Benson did
Speaker 2: not kill this guy.
Speaker 3: I wouldn't, of course.
Speaker 1: I'm just pointing out the devices they're using to make
Speaker 1: you try to doubt Benson that maybe she feels so
Speaker 1: bad about her mistake that she fucking stabbed this guy.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: So, top of act three, the corner is packing up
Speaker 1: Gorman's bod and Munch is giving us like the whole rundown.
Speaker 1: He's been dead less than an hour of a single
Speaker 1: stab wound to the chest with a smooth blade and
Speaker 1: it might be the same one that was used to
Speaker 1: cut his Wiener off, and Stabler's like, you said, Wiener,
Speaker 1: I wrote Dick's so many times that I was trying
Speaker 1: to think of different things to write.
Speaker 3: But now I just want a hot dog.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, and I know you like a big beef dog,
Speaker 1: as you said on A four proud a previous episode.
Speaker 3: I like a big beef dog.
Speaker 1: So now Stabler and Benson are alone and he's like,
Speaker 1: are you protecting her?
Speaker 3: So Stabler doesn't think she did it.
Speaker 1: He thinks she's covering for Hillary, and she goes, I
Speaker 1: left Hillary at her mother's house a couple hours ago,
Speaker 1: and I don't need your interrogation, Stabler, you know. And
Speaker 1: he's like, I don't get why you didn't come back
Speaker 1: to the squad and she's like, look, I had a
Speaker 1: hunch that it was one of these hotels, kind of
Speaker 1: like you guys came up with.
Speaker 3: I checked five hotels. This was number six.
Speaker 1: And Stabler's like, you did this all without backup, and
Speaker 1: he's pissed, and Elliott goes to her, You're out of control,
Speaker 1: and liv goes, I never had control with this one, remember,
Speaker 1: and I didn't even realize. I always think when I
Speaker 1: think about this episode that it's called control because of
Speaker 1: the way this guy was controlling them, But it's also
Speaker 1: about Olivia and of the control she has over the
Speaker 1: situation and her role so interesting when.
Speaker 2: They always think of well, I think that's what the
Speaker 2: Internet wants me to do. But I just think about
Speaker 2: the Leonardo DiCaprio meme now where he's pointing. Have you
Speaker 2: ever seen the one where he gets up like he's
Speaker 2: the Howard Hughes point No. Oh, yeah, it's a fun meme,
Speaker 2: And it's like usually like when you hear the title
Speaker 2: episode be said, oh.
Speaker 3: And you're like, oh, yes, is that not from Gatsby?
Speaker 1: Once upon a Time in Hollywood? We made it back
Speaker 1: to Tarantino. I think I have seen that for sure.
Speaker 1: So Olivia is beating herself up about this mistake and
Speaker 1: Elliott is like, get over it, and I just think
Speaker 1: it's we always talk about cops fucking up cases and
Speaker 1: a lot of the research that we do, and like,
Speaker 1: I kind of like how in this show they at
Speaker 1: least show the cops fuck up, you know, Like I
Speaker 1: know it's a fantasy where the cops are totally not
Speaker 1: really how they are, but it's also how they're really
Speaker 1: not how they are in a bad way. Like Live
Speaker 1: did fuck up, and at least she's trying to rectify
Speaker 1: it and feels bad. Like Stabler's the kind of cop
Speaker 1: who would just double down and be like, never admit
Speaker 1: that he did something wrong. He'd just be like, all right,
Speaker 1: I just got to fix it now, you know. Like,
Speaker 1: and I think that it just shows the different sides
Speaker 1: of them. She's kind of letting it eat at her,
Speaker 1: and he's just like get over it, Like let's just
Speaker 1: find the guy, you know, or find who did this,
Speaker 1: I guess because we have already found the guy. So
Speaker 1: now we're back at the precinct and all these women
Speaker 1: have come forward as victims of Gorman. Okay, like we're
Speaker 1: getting a little pan of the precinct and all these
Speaker 1: women are sitting there, like one woman is like Cambodian
Speaker 1: and she's like telling her story to Finn and Cambo
Speaker 1: in another language and don't I don't think Finn's I
Speaker 1: don't think.
Speaker 3: Finn speaks that language.
Speaker 1: So it's like a lot of them are just like
Speaker 1: telling their story and unfortunately Finn reveals to Olivia that
Speaker 1: all of these women were taken after Hillary, which causes
Speaker 1: her to feel even more guilt because every woman that's
Speaker 1: sitting in front of her would not have had this
Speaker 1: experience if Olivia had believed Hillary and they had investigated
Speaker 1: the crime.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it sucks.
Speaker 2: The thing is, it's like everyone makes mistakes. These mistakes
Speaker 2: have really long line, huge consequences.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so this kind of breaks Olivia.
Speaker 1: She goes to her locker and starts packing her shit,
Speaker 1: which I don't think we've seen her do before. Like,
Speaker 1: I don't think we've seen her almost quip before. And
Speaker 1: Craigan confronts her and she's just like I can't do
Speaker 1: this anymore. And he's like trying to explain, like, look,
Speaker 1: this guy picks women who no one would believe, Like
Speaker 1: he picks women specifically that he can just let go
Speaker 1: and leave back on the street and knows that no
Speaker 1: one will believe them. And he's like, there's always going
Speaker 1: to be purps and there's always going to be victims.
Speaker 1: And Olivia is like the only reason I'm standing here
Speaker 1: is because my mom let herself get raped.
Speaker 3: And you've never heard that from Olivia before.
Speaker 1: I've never heard her like blame her mom like that before,
Speaker 1: and it's weird to hear her like vict and he's like,
Speaker 1: since when do you victim blame? And she's like, my
Speaker 1: mother was drunk when she was attacked, and so was Hillary.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, you know what, so am I most
Speaker 1: weekend nights. That doesn't mean anything, Like it doesn't mean anything,
Speaker 1: and Craigan is like, the people responsible for these crimes
Speaker 1: are the purpse, like, not the victims, no matter how
Speaker 1: drunk or fucked up they were or whatever their pasts were,
Speaker 1: and lives saying, but the reason I didn't believe Hillary
Speaker 1: is because of my past with my mom and like
Speaker 1: that my mom was an alcoholic and that she was
Speaker 1: drunk when she got rapes and so it's all connected.
Speaker 1: And Craigan's like, okay, fine, quit throw away all the
Speaker 1: good you've done and all the good you will do
Speaker 1: over one mistake, and live looks like she got got
Speaker 1: and she sucks it up and grabs pictures of the
Speaker 1: brides and is like, let's go to Stabler. So crisis averted.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys, no spoiler, but she
Speaker 1: does not leave the squad. So now they're back in
Speaker 1: the tunnel in the Grand Center and they're showing Sami
Speaker 1: l aka Samuel the photos of these brides, who's.
Speaker 3: Now just a full time informat. Yeah.
Speaker 1: He's like, oh, hey, old cop friends, let's talk keep
Speaker 1: things dark. And they show him this photo array of
Speaker 1: all these brides and say which one is your angel?
Speaker 3: And he id's don't done. Hillary.
Speaker 1: And so now we're at this very upscale maud apartment
Speaker 1: of Juliet Barclay and she's in a silky PJ in
Speaker 1: robe and she's got a view of the Empire State
Speaker 1: Building and the Chrysler Building, so not bad. And Hillary
Speaker 1: is there with some pjs onto more of like a
Speaker 1: hippie hippy silky. Yeah, hers are more. No, Hillary's are
Speaker 1: more like she got them on a trip to Tibet,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. That's like what the vibe
Speaker 1: was for me. But they're not as silky as her mom's.
Speaker 1: And then they tell them, hey, we found Gorman and
Speaker 1: he's dead and she says, good, I hope he suffered.
Speaker 1: And then they're like you killed him and she denies it.
Speaker 1: She's like, I didn't do it, and her mom gets
Speaker 1: angry and is like, you can't take her you can't
Speaker 1: take her.
Speaker 3: You can't do this to her.
Speaker 1: She's been through enough, so I'm kind of it's nice
Speaker 1: to see that these two have kind of reconnected. And
Speaker 1: then Juliet confesses to the murder. She goes, take me,
Speaker 1: I killed the bastard. I had to protect my daughter.
Speaker 1: So they arrest Juliette while Hillary is protesting and like,
Speaker 1: you can't take her, you can't take her. So now
Speaker 1: Juliet is in interrogation, out of her silky robe.
Speaker 3: PJ.
Speaker 1: Look. I don't know if they got her a sweatshirt
Speaker 1: or whatever, but she explains that Horace Gorman murdered my
Speaker 1: daughter's soul. I did what any mother would do. And
Speaker 1: they want to know how she knew where to find Gorman,
Speaker 1: and she said, last week, Hillary saw him leaving his
Speaker 1: apartment building and she was shocked. So she said, so
Speaker 1: I followed him for a few days and then I
Speaker 1: castrated him at the subway station. I didn't want to
Speaker 1: kill him in case he was holding another victim smart
Speaker 1: the day before the day he was killed. He never
Speaker 1: went to the dungeon, and she remembered that he would
Speaker 1: hang out with all these quote unquote hookers at this
Speaker 1: Dingy Hotel. So when the cops told Hillary that Gorman
Speaker 1: was on the lamb, like she knew exactly where he was,
Speaker 1: she went to the hotel, knocked on his door and
Speaker 1: asked if he wanted company.
Speaker 3: When he let her in, she says she stabbed.
Speaker 1: Him, and she goes, there was so much blood, and
Speaker 1: then she says she threw the knife down the sewer
Speaker 1: grade a few blocks away.
Speaker 3: So she's got a pretty good storyline up.
Speaker 1: Now we're in Judge Petrovsky's chambers with the Dream Team. Okay,
Speaker 1: it's Petrovsky, it's Casey Novic, and it's Cyndi Lauper's husband
Speaker 1: Lionel Grainger.
Speaker 3: Love this.
Speaker 1: So Granger is arguing that Juliet's confession is a Peyton
Speaker 1: violation because and the Peyton violation is essentially what we've
Speaker 1: talked about on this podcast before. The cops are not
Speaker 1: allowed to without a warrant, arrest someone in their home.
Speaker 1: They need to step out of their home. So what
Speaker 1: we saw in the episode was a little bit walking
Speaker 1: the line there because they did kind of bring her
Speaker 1: out of her apartment and then they arrested her, but
Speaker 1: she didn't walk out of her apartment really on her
Speaker 1: own accord, So that's what he's arguing, and there he's
Speaker 1: kind of right. I hate to say, you know, like
Speaker 1: we love our girl, Casey Novak, but I think this
Speaker 1: guy's she would argue the same thing if it was
Speaker 1: reversed for her. And she's saying she wasn't arrested until
Speaker 1: she stepped outside, and he's like, yeah, but she was
Speaker 1: intimidated and dragged out by cops and Novak like, no,
Speaker 1: she volunteered. But Petrovsky's like, Novak, come on, I'm throwing
Speaker 1: out this confession. And then Granger is like, all right, baby,
Speaker 1: let's talk plea deal, and Novak is like, scram buddy,
Speaker 1: I've got the spontaneous admission in the apartment, and I
Speaker 1: think that'll be just fine.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for coming out. And then in.
Speaker 1: The courtroom, Novak is making her argument that even though
Speaker 1: Gorman Novak's wearing a wild outfit in this episode, it's
Speaker 1: such a long skirt, she looks like a Hasidic Jewish wife.
Speaker 3: I don't think I noticed it.
Speaker 1: Oh it was like black and then like a long
Speaker 1: black pleated skirt to below the knee. I was like, Casey,
Speaker 1: this I think they later let her dress a little hotter.
Speaker 2: Because I'm also extra sensitive to Orthodox outfits, and i
Speaker 2: always feel like I'm dressed like an Orthodox Jew or
Speaker 2: like a Menna night on a night out. So I
Speaker 2: do feel sad I didn't notice.
Speaker 1: Meanwhile, you never are, but I'll just say it was
Speaker 1: just very black.
Speaker 3: Pilgrimy like, you know.
Speaker 1: Sort of we like some skin, we want skins. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she just usually is dressed a little bit more.
Speaker 3: She that's all.
Speaker 1: And so she's making the argument that even though Gorman
Speaker 1: was a monster who absolutely should have been sentenced to
Speaker 1: life in prison and died in prison, she cannot prosecute
Speaker 1: him because Juliette Barclay went vigilante and no one is.
Speaker 3: Above the law. Murder is murder, no matter who or why.
Speaker 1: And you know, we all know our girl Casey takes
Speaker 1: that shit very seriously.
Speaker 3: And then Grainger is like, I agree with everything.
Speaker 1: Miss Novak is saying, here's the thing, we don't know
Speaker 1: who killed him. There's another suspect, someone with means, motive,
Speaker 1: an opportunity, and that person is Detective Olivia Benson. This
Speaker 1: up is so fucking wild. This guy's fully just trying
Speaker 1: to frame Olivia for this not really, you know, I
Speaker 1: don't think he would ever say that she really really
Speaker 1: did it, But he's trying to create reasonable doubt because
Speaker 1: she did have all this access and it really could
Speaker 1: have been her.
Speaker 3: On the timeline.
Speaker 1: Novak objects as like objection in the whole court room
Speaker 1: is like hub hub hub hub. While we're on Olivia's
Speaker 1: face as we go out to commercial coming back act
Speaker 1: for at the precinct, Novak's like, I know what he's doing.
Speaker 1: He's trying to create reasonable doubt. Why don't you just admit,
Speaker 1: go on the stand, admit you screwed up and went
Speaker 1: to the hotel alone, but testify that you didn't kill him.
Speaker 1: And then Novak walks away and lives like she didn't
Speaker 1: even ask me if I did it. And then she
Speaker 1: says to Stabler and neither did you, and Stabler goes,
Speaker 1: I know you didn't do it. You would have shot
Speaker 1: the bastard. So I like that they know each other
Speaker 1: that well. But also she might not have shot him
Speaker 1: because it's well, actually, yeah, what she could have done
Speaker 1: is say he attacked me and shot him. Back in court,
Speaker 1: Olivia is testifying, explaining how she was checking with all
Speaker 1: these motel desk clerks, and that she was gonna call
Speaker 1: for backup if she got a positive ID. But then
Speaker 1: the Lydia Hotel, she went in and the guy goes, yeah,
Speaker 1: he's here, and she was worried he was with another victim,
Speaker 1: so she said she ran up there and she saw
Speaker 1: Gorman lying on the floor dead when she walked in.
Speaker 1: And when he goes, she says, did you kill him?
Speaker 1: And she goes, I did not kill him, Like it's
Speaker 1: very it's very believable, I think, but maybe that's just
Speaker 1: because I'm obsessed with Olivia Benson. Now on cross examination,
Speaker 1: Granger's not pulling any punches. He brings up the fact
Speaker 1: that six victims were taken because Olivia didn't believe Hillary,
Speaker 1: and she's like, well, actually that happened because Gorman is
Speaker 1: a psychopath. And he's still like just leaning into the
Speaker 1: like you did it angle, and he's like, why didn't
Speaker 1: you radio for backup? And she's like, I was about
Speaker 1: to the desk clerk, and he goes, but the desk
Speaker 1: clerk said there was ten minutes between your arrival and
Speaker 1: your partner's arrival, And she's like, that guy was playing
Speaker 1: cards to fucking he doesn't notice anything like who like irrelevant,
Speaker 1: and then he brings up how Benson has quote unquote
Speaker 1: murdered to other people, and she goes, I shot two
Speaker 1: suspects who were armed and about to commit murder, and
Speaker 1: he's like, hmm, two killings, no charges, third times a charm.
Speaker 1: At the precinct, they're all brainstorming because this isn't really
Speaker 1: looking very good, Like they're trying to figure out, like
Speaker 1: how we can get the jury to disregard that it
Speaker 1: could have been Olivia, like even if there's a small,
Speaker 1: small chance. That's the whole concept of reasonable doubt right there.
Speaker 1: And so munch Waltz is in with this little nerd
Speaker 1: man who's so cute and like looks so excited to
Speaker 1: be there, and he is a forensics metallurgist and when
Speaker 1: so he knows about metals and shit. So apparently when
Speaker 1: the knife stabbed Gorman, it left traces of a metal
Speaker 1: on his sternum and the metal was gold, and this
Speaker 1: little dork is like so excited, he's how often do
Speaker 1: you think he gets called? He was probably like, yes,
Speaker 1: I'm useful, and he says a bunch of nerd shit
Speaker 1: and then finally reveals that the knife is from the
Speaker 1: mid ninth century, and Benson and Stabler are like, yeah,
Speaker 1: like one you might find at Juliette's antique shop.
Speaker 3: So now we're at the antique shop.
Speaker 1: This is another episode where there's just so much going on,
Speaker 1: so many locations at the antique shop, where with qut
Speaker 1: o'hallerin rip and he's there scanning knife after knife of
Speaker 1: all these antiquity all these antique knives for blood, and
Speaker 1: he's striking out.
Speaker 3: He's like, sorry, I haven't found anything.
Speaker 1: Then Finn comes out of nowhere with some Indiana Jones
Speaker 1: knife that he found under the sink and boom, it's
Speaker 1: been cleaned, but it definitely has blood on it and
Speaker 1: there's some blood in like the carvings on the handle.
Speaker 1: Back in court, Granger is still trying to implicate Benson
Speaker 1: in his cross examination of Hillary, but Hillary's like, my
Speaker 1: mom couldn't have done it, And when they confront her
Speaker 1: with the whole knife thing, she confesses she's like, I
Speaker 1: did it. I stole the knife from my mom's store
Speaker 1: and I used it to castrate and kill Gorman. And
Speaker 1: she tells her mom, you don't have to protect me anymore,
Speaker 1: and she says she still has a key to the
Speaker 1: store because she used to steal some of the shit
Speaker 1: from her mom's store to sell for drugs, and that's
Speaker 1: how she got access. And they've all got a story.
Speaker 1: Everybody's got all their details wrapped up. So then Novak
Speaker 1: goes to the bench with Granger and is like to Petrovsky,
Speaker 1: you got to give me a mistrial, like the we can't,
Speaker 1: you know, as they say, too loud a bell to unring,
Speaker 1: like we can't. We can't make the jury not have
Speaker 1: heard this confession. Oh, and then so Petrovski asked Novak,
Speaker 1: do you have reasonable doubt about Juliette being guilty? And
Speaker 1: she goes, I have to admit that I do, And
Speaker 1: then she that leaves no choice but for the people
Speaker 1: to dismiss the case against juliet Barclay, which means double
Speaker 1: jeopardy as attached and she cannot be tried again for
Speaker 1: this crime. But now they have to arrest Hillary. So
Speaker 1: Olivia is saying, I know Hillary made her own choices,
Speaker 1: but it doesn't mean I have to be happy about
Speaker 1: her going away for murder. And then Novak enters and goes,
Speaker 1: she's not and Juliete's attorney just shared this with me,
Speaker 1: and it's this VHS tape, which is what that is.
Speaker 1: In case you're like twenty and you haven't don't know
Speaker 1: what that is, it's a VHS tape. So next scene
Speaker 1: we see is Olivia standing in the interrogate into in
Speaker 1: a cell in the holding cell, going, VENTI whole milk
Speaker 1: latte sounds like a lot of dairy and she says
Speaker 1: that to Hillary and she.
Speaker 3: Goes, the whole milk.
Speaker 1: Yeah, a whole milk in a latte, that's like all
Speaker 1: that's like tea that sounds like a fart. And so
Speaker 1: she goes, that's what you ordered at the coffee shop
Speaker 1: when your mother murdered Gorman.
Speaker 3: We saw you.
Speaker 1: We can't arrest your mom now because of Double Jeopardy,
Speaker 1: and Hillary's like, I don't mind going to jail for
Speaker 1: castrating him. So we know Hillary's the one that did castration,
Speaker 1: but we think now we know that her mom's the
Speaker 1: one that did the killing. She followed him for days
Speaker 1: to kill him, but he saw her on the subway.
Speaker 1: She confronted him and said he was she was going
Speaker 1: to tell the whole world what he did. And he
Speaker 1: said go ahead. No one's gonna believe a whoring junkie.
Speaker 3: Ugh.
Speaker 1: She hits him and drags him back to the platform,
Speaker 1: and she goes, I had the perfect chance to kill him,
Speaker 1: but I realized castration would make him suffer even more.
Speaker 1: And then she just said I couldn't let my mother
Speaker 1: go to jail. And then Novak was like, yeah, but
Speaker 1: she belongs there, and no one gives you the right
Speaker 1: to lie or your mother to murder, and Samantha Mathis goes, well,
Speaker 1: he'll never torture another woman again, will.
Speaker 3: He seems more important?
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's dick wolf Baby.
Speaker 2: I've said this once and I'll say it again. I
Speaker 2: am pro vigilante justice. Yeah, thank you, Kara, and I
Speaker 2: think you'll all be saddened by how much overlap with
Speaker 2: the real thing I have.
Speaker 1: I am going into this totally blind. I know nothing
Speaker 1: about this case, so I'm excited.
Speaker 2: All right, we'll see you guys soon. Okay, So this
Speaker 2: case I've actually been wanting to cover for a very
Speaker 2: very long time because it has one of my favorite
Speaker 2: slash least favorite things, which is cops fucking up.
Speaker 3: Over and over and over again.
Speaker 2: And so we have an Olivia Benson moment here where
Speaker 2: all these women were not believed. And so I've wanted
Speaker 2: to cover this because not that I get glee or satisfaction,
Speaker 2: but I do. I'd like to talk about why cops suck. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I do. I wish I wasn't true.
Speaker 1: I wish we did the Alaskan butcher Baker butcher guy
Speaker 1: or whatever.
Speaker 3: And it was like one of the only.
Speaker 1: Reasons they believe the girl they found there was because
Speaker 1: she was like naked in the fucking middle of the
Speaker 1: highway with like a tire iron around her neck or
Speaker 1: something like that. It's like that's but they're like, well,
Speaker 1: that does look kind of weird. I guess we can believe.
Speaker 2: This girl, you know, Like, yeah, I mean the fact
Speaker 2: that they didn't like search thoroughly at Kemper's house and
Speaker 2: there was a head in his closet, like, oh.
Speaker 3: My god, I would I wish it wasn't true, but
Speaker 3: it does. You know.
Speaker 2: I like having ammunition for myself when I have to
Speaker 2: get into arguments or any sort of situations out in
Speaker 2: the world, to like have these cases to be like, no,
Speaker 2: they fuck up constantly, and let's stop calling them heroes
Speaker 2: and giving them parades.
Speaker 3: Like do your fucking jobs.
Speaker 2: So anyways, this happens in the suburbs of Syracuse, New York.
Speaker 2: The criminal here we're talking about is John Jamelski. He's
Speaker 2: a retired handy man and he was a well known eccentric,
Speaker 2: so a freak. Okay, he was known as a resident
Speaker 2: crank and freak, a Republican who rarely missed an election.
Speaker 2: So I don't know, he's like a Karen you know,
Speaker 2: junk hording like Gorris Horman.
Speaker 3: He was. He was very into pigeon feeding. Oh Jesus, yeah.
Speaker 1: You're if you feed pigeons in Venice, I don't care
Speaker 1: where you're doing it. You are feeding rats, you are
Speaker 1: feeding flying rats. I do not think it's cute to
Speaker 1: put bird seed on yourself in San Marco Piazza in
Speaker 1: Venice and have a bunch of rats eat it off
Speaker 1: of your jacket. And I stand by that.
Speaker 2: No one just doing well in life, is, you know,
Speaker 2: summoning pigeons.
Speaker 3: It's not happening.
Speaker 2: And so yeah, the town thought he was irksome, but
Speaker 2: like he was seldom menacing, like no one, no one
Speaker 2: was scared of him. But we're also not talking casual
Speaker 2: junk hoarding. We're talking. The police when they got into
Speaker 2: his home found thirteen thousand bottles.
Speaker 3: Oh my god. And it's a well to do suburbs.
Speaker 2: So like when the crimes came out, it was kind
Speaker 2: of like shocking. I know what you're thinking, Cara. I
Speaker 2: know what you're thinking. You don't have to be get
Speaker 2: We're on the zoom. I see your face. Tell them.
Speaker 1: I was just gonna bring up when I moved Lisa
Speaker 1: out of her LA apartment, I did find no, nowhere
Speaker 1: close to thirteen thousand, but I found probably two dozen
Speaker 1: water bottles with one zip left.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's comforting, just drewn about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm right now, I'm looking at four Yeah, okay,
Speaker 2: well then so yeah, getting better and better, oh, getting better,
Speaker 2: and they all have just a little bit.
Speaker 3: My car is filled with bottles. I don't know what
Speaker 3: it is.
Speaker 2: I'll bring it up in therapy next week, but I yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't know why I need bottles around me in
Speaker 2: my car, just crunching around. So this guy, you know,
Speaker 2: we're talking about what a weirdo, what a junk guy,
Speaker 2: or like what?
Speaker 3: He is a horrific man.
Speaker 2: He kidnapped five women and girls and kept them as
Speaker 2: sex slaves and a homemade bunker. The concrete bunker was
Speaker 2: two rooms and barren. He built it in nineteen eighty
Speaker 2: eight and it was linked to his basement by his
Speaker 2: seven foot long tunnel underneath his backyard. And they later
Speaker 2: did ask the man who delivered all the concrete, like,
Speaker 2: what did you think was happening? He's like, I don't
Speaker 2: know some rooms, So concrete high was not suspicious. Town
Speaker 2: officials of course, that they never knew about the underground structures,
Speaker 2: but it would be crazy if they did, like, what.
Speaker 3: You're not going to register? Yeah, kid, that's getting Yeah, Hi,
Speaker 3: I'm here to permit my rape. Dungep what's the fee?
Speaker 3: Can I write a check?
Speaker 2: And his go to answer if anyone asked about it,
Speaker 2: he said it was a storm shelter. Anyone that has
Speaker 2: crawled through it. Post investigation everything said, you know, it's windowless,
Speaker 2: dank and claustrophobic and utterly terrifying. So it was a
Speaker 2: twelve by twelve room and it was eight feet high,
Speaker 2: and there was graffiti. I wonder who he got to
Speaker 2: do some graffiti art down there.
Speaker 3: He's like, I have a banksy down there.
Speaker 2: So just so and again like disgusting, there's no comforts.
Speaker 2: There was a strip of foam for sleeping, a television
Speaker 2: set and a bible, and then the second room had
Speaker 2: a portable toilet and then a bathtub that was filled with.
Speaker 3: A garden hose.
Speaker 2: And the Daily News called him the Dungeon Dragon, which
Speaker 2: sounds like something that Jared would like to be called in.
Speaker 1: No, and also that's too cool of a name, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're not the dungeon Dragon. Yeah, Like that's gonna make
Speaker 1: him sound like he's dungeons. Dragons aren't real, So that's like,
Speaker 1: all right, well we got Karra while and out. I
Speaker 1: just don't I don't like giving somebody like a name
Speaker 1: like Ted Bundy was like the Mountain Murderer. Like, it's
Speaker 1: not like a cool thing to give someone a nickname.
Speaker 3: I agree, agree, agree, So.
Speaker 2: Basically, he would snatch women off the streets over a
Speaker 2: span of fifteen years from eighty eight to two thousand
Speaker 2: and two, and literal snatching okay, this isn't hyperbole.
Speaker 3: Snatching.
Speaker 2: He would cruise in his Mercury comment and seeking women
Speaker 2: from the wrong side of the tracks. So again, picking
Speaker 2: women that no one would believe or care about or miss.
Speaker 2: He imprisoned them, raped them, and he kept one of
Speaker 2: them as long as three years. The victim's age range
Speaker 2: was about fourteen to fifty three years old.
Speaker 3: Three teenagers and two women.
Speaker 2: He picked up runaways, atticts, young girls with no strong anchors.
Speaker 2: His wife lived upstairs the whole time, just like Fritzel. Yeah,
Speaker 2: the wife lived upstairs the whole time he had victims.
Speaker 2: And not only was she just upstairs chilling, she had cancer.
Speaker 2: And he started doing this after he couldn't have sex
Speaker 2: with his wife who had cancer.
Speaker 3: So he that's like the catalyst.
Speaker 2: So if his wife didn't have cancer, so let's blame
Speaker 2: this cancer woman. I mean, now this is from the
Speaker 2: Daily News, so I don't know how credible the Daily
Speaker 2: News is or not. But in the eighties it said
Speaker 2: that he had an open affair with a teenager who
Speaker 2: he brought to family functions as his wife sat by awkwardly.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean, maybe he was abusive to her too,
Speaker 2: you know, like maybe she was like a person that
Speaker 2: was like I can't but the whole family events bringing it,
Speaker 2: I know, like because everyone's like, oh, he's just the
Speaker 2: silly guy of grump of a guy with cans and
Speaker 2: it's like, but he is doing weird.
Speaker 1: Shit, Like I have had a fan, I've had a
Speaker 1: family member bring a affair to a family event but
Speaker 1: their wife was not there. We all were there and
Speaker 1: we're like, this is your friend, but the wife was
Speaker 1: not there, which is.
Speaker 2: Even fuck because now that's implying and implicating all of you.
Speaker 2: Now you have to hold this your family members lie.
Speaker 2: Because we had a friend who would always cheat all
Speaker 2: the time, and I had to have kind of a
Speaker 2: u an intervention with him because I was like, it's
Speaker 2: not fair. We're hanging out with this girl constantly want
Speaker 2: us to be friend with her, and yet we know
Speaker 2: you're openly cheating on her, and it's not fair to us.
Speaker 2: Like I don't like to be put in this position.
Speaker 2: And I was like, and you have to stop like
Speaker 2: lying to all of us. And then he lied to
Speaker 2: me while I was doing an intervention about him lying
Speaker 2: and cheating, and I go, I know you're lying to
Speaker 2: me right now.
Speaker 3: He goes, oh you knew about that.
Speaker 2: I go, that's what I'm trying to tell you, Like
Speaker 2: here lying to your friends and we all know and
Speaker 2: we talk to each other and it's fucked up.
Speaker 3: But whatever, people have problems.
Speaker 2: So anyways, and this relationship with the teen I guess
Speaker 2: inspired his new kidnapping rape hobby.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: His wife did eventually die of cancer, and then he
Speaker 2: continued the crime, So you can't really blame because you
Speaker 2: can't fuck your cancer written wife. And then when she's
Speaker 2: dead and you could cheat on her. Also, you're already
Speaker 2: having affairs. I mean, I don't know why I'm asking.
Speaker 2: I don't know why I'm asking this guy to like
Speaker 2: a moral high grounder, makes sense in any of his
Speaker 2: behaviors or ethics. Like, I'm just confused why people in
Speaker 2: the town we were shocked about this when it seems
Speaker 2: like he was a shitty guy before the crimes came out.
Speaker 2: He said that he would hold his victims captive to
Speaker 2: avoid STDs because he needed a cheat, but he didn't
Speaker 2: want to get STDs, so that's why he held him captive.
Speaker 2: I mean, you can explain anything away if you're a psychopath,
Speaker 2: would chain the women to a to a steal like
Speaker 2: rod for twelve hours or more a day, and then
Speaker 2: you know, obviously raped.
Speaker 3: I already mentioned that.
Speaker 2: I don't know, I mentioned it again, and like in
Speaker 2: the show, he determined when the women could bathe, sleep,
Speaker 2: and when they were forced to have sex. He had
Speaker 2: total control over their lives, said County Sheriff Kevin E.
Speaker 3: Walsh.
Speaker 2: He also said that in his forty years on the
Speaker 2: job that this is the most bizarre case and that
Speaker 2: seems to make light of what happened. Bizarre isn't the
Speaker 2: word that I did. Yeah, how about horrific? How about yeah,
Speaker 2: humanity at its bottom?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Bizarre? You know what's that's not bizarre? Right? Yeah?
Speaker 2: In elementary school, we our principal's name was doctor mister bizarre.
Speaker 2: I don't know, well, I don't know. I was about
Speaker 2: to say doctor. He was just a mister, mister mister bizarre.
Speaker 2: I love that. That's a fun I think he was
Speaker 2: a good principal. I didn't really have any issues with
Speaker 2: him anyways. But after he would get tired of each woman,
Speaker 2: he would blindfold them and return her home and of
Speaker 2: course did the classic if you go to the cops,
Speaker 2: I'll kill you and kill your family and whatever threats.
Speaker 2: But he wasn't a killer. And so that's like a
Speaker 2: strange thing. And I would like to see studies, psychology
Speaker 2: information on this type of behavior of.
Speaker 3: The letting go. I'm curious, yeah, because it is a risk.
Speaker 1: Yeah for some people like Ted Bundy. The thrill was
Speaker 1: all in the murdering. And I think this man is
Speaker 1: a rapist and he does he Yeah, he just a
Speaker 1: lot of times I think that a rapist will kill
Speaker 1: just to cover their tracks.
Speaker 3: And I guess he thought, I'm scary enough. If I
Speaker 3: scare them, they'll never go to the cops. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So September nineteen eighty eight, he lured fourteen year old
Speaker 2: victim into his car. Her family reported her missing, but
Speaker 2: then they were shocked when she just came home in
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty nine. So the victim later said that he
Speaker 2: threatened to kill her brother, so she lied and said
Speaker 2: she had run away from home. And then in nineteen
Speaker 2: ninety five, he kidnapped his next teenage victim, so there
Speaker 2: was long breaks.
Speaker 3: It was another fourteen year old victim.
Speaker 2: She was held for two years, and when she went
Speaker 2: home she told her mother, but was so terrified that
Speaker 2: she didn't report the crime.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 2: In nineteen ninety seven, he abducted his third victim, a
Speaker 2: fifty three year old Vietnamese immigrant, and she was held
Speaker 2: for five months. She went to the police but said
Speaker 2: cops were skeptical of her allegations and only made a
Speaker 2: cursory investigation.
Speaker 3: I wonder if.
Speaker 1: There was like a language barrier two and the cops
Speaker 1: were just like, we don't know what you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, like in Syracuse, Like I don't know if
Speaker 1: they got like a Vietnamese interpreter, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh, or they were a racist too. You're giving
Speaker 2: him a more.
Speaker 3: Credit than I think they did. Yeah, yeah, yeah, just
Speaker 3: in the episode there was a Cambodian immigrant, you know,
Speaker 3: So it's like, yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is really a lot of parallels to the
Speaker 1: episode where like very closely Neil Behar I think found
Speaker 1: this information and a gave it a close close rewrite.
Speaker 3: So in two.
Speaker 2: Thousand and one, his wife died and he grabbed his
Speaker 2: fourth victim, who was a single mother who was twenty
Speaker 2: six years old at the time. And for me, I'm like,
Speaker 2: what happened to the kid? She's a single mom.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: She hurried to the police after she was released after
Speaker 2: two months, and she didn't know his name or address,
Speaker 2: and since she was blindfolded, like she didn't have the
Speaker 2: information that they needed, but did give a very helpful tip.
Speaker 2: She told them the car was a nineteen seventy five
Speaker 2: Mercury comment. Okay, so there was one in the area. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but it was someone else's. His was in nineteen seventy four.
Speaker 2: But the cops didn't bother to broaden their records or search,
Speaker 2: not even a little bit to help find this person.
Speaker 3: Like what the fuck, Oh my god, they.
Speaker 2: Would just believe this eyewitness account of a nineteen ninety
Speaker 2: five and it was a ninety four, like lazy, lazy,
Speaker 2: And at this point he was sixty seven, and so
Speaker 2: he was popping viagraa daily to maintain an obsessive rape regime.
Speaker 2: October two thousand and two, he took his next victim,
Speaker 2: a sixteen year old who he called Mika. He got
Speaker 2: caught because of this victim. She was sixteen years old.
Speaker 2: She was held capture for four to six months, but
Speaker 2: she managed to call her sister when he took her
Speaker 2: along on an errand to his weekly visit to the
Speaker 2: bottle depot to hand in his cans and bottles.
Speaker 1: I'm surprised he's parting with cans and bottles. I thought
Speaker 1: he was collecting them, that's I know. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: he had so many.
Speaker 2: It was his like main was collecting cans and bottles,
Speaker 2: and I've been making money off of them and hoarding them.
Speaker 2: I just I just don't get how I get it
Speaker 2: because the cops suck. But like to have people that
Speaker 2: are this dirty and careless and gross to be able
Speaker 2: to get away with such like horrific rhymes for so long,
Speaker 2: it's so strange to me. But she convinced him that
Speaker 2: she was under his spell, and he believed that they
Speaker 2: were friends, and so he allowed her out of the
Speaker 2: bunker and into the house, still with padlocks, but like
Speaker 2: they had a thing going, and he started to take
Speaker 2: her out on outings, bowling bar where she's saying, karaoke,
Speaker 2: and always the Bottle Redemption Center was his number one
Speaker 2: hangout spot. So April ninth, two thousand and three, she
Speaker 2: managed to like finangle a brief call to her sister
Speaker 2: while they were at this bottle depot. She asked to
Speaker 2: use the phone to call a church, and he fell
Speaker 2: for it, and I bet that's like ego thinking that
Speaker 2: she was under his spell. The girl actually called her
Speaker 2: sister and he was arrested as he as he and
Speaker 2: this girl sat in his car, so he was busted.
Speaker 2: On April third, two thousand and three. Well the other
Speaker 2: news said April ninth, So April two thousand and three.
Speaker 2: I don't know if it was the Alliance or maybe. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I have no idea. Like that's why it's hard, no
Speaker 2: matter how credible the sources are. It's like, I don't
Speaker 2: know how credible they are. How are their two fucking
Speaker 2: different dates to his apprehension. Yeah, it's annoying. Okay, So
Speaker 2: the bottle guy is the worst and has the worst
Speaker 2: quote ever, And he was like, oh, I was so shocked.
Speaker 2: Like I've known John forever. I like, John comes with
Speaker 2: his bottles every fucking week, so he was a regular.
Speaker 2: But this is the bottle guy's quote, and this is
Speaker 2: from the New York Times. I feel bad for the victims,
Speaker 2: but I also feel bad for John. I know there's
Speaker 2: a good guy in there somewhere.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, let's hut the bottle though it's so ingrained
Speaker 1: to try to find like an excuse for like a
Speaker 1: fellow man, like I really do think that. How do
Speaker 1: you want to find goodness in someone that kidnapped and
Speaker 1: raped five people? Like I don't get it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, built a bunker, calculated, held for months, threatened.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we didn't just like.
Speaker 1: He also didn't just like transform his basement, like he
Speaker 1: dug a tunnel every day. That man went in and
Speaker 1: dug a fucking tunnel and was like this is for
Speaker 1: my rape dungeon, like every day, like he was committed
Speaker 1: to this.
Speaker 2: And this bottle guy's like, I feel bad for him?
Speaker 2: What about the good parts of his personality? Like what
Speaker 2: the fuck are you even talking about?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Why In the days after his arrest, he really didn't
Speaker 2: deem any of his behavior wrong and thought the sex
Speaker 2: was consensual. But if it's consensual, why do you need
Speaker 2: to lock someone up? Like what are we what is happening?
Speaker 2: But didn't Fritzel say something like that too. He was
Speaker 2: kind of like my daughter wanted it or I needed
Speaker 2: to do it to keep my daughter like safe from
Speaker 2: the rest of the world.
Speaker 3: Like they all have fucking some wacko idea.
Speaker 2: Also, in the days after the rest, three other women
Speaker 2: came forward to say they two were being held hostage
Speaker 2: and sexually abused in the bunker, which leads to the
Speaker 2: question of whether the police did all they could to
Speaker 2: stop and prevent these crimes. Two years before he was apprehended,
Speaker 2: one victim told them about her experts. Kate Flannery, a
Speaker 2: director of the Rape Crisis Center of Syracuse, said that
Speaker 2: the victim in question was a substance abuser and had
Speaker 2: trouble convincing the authorities that her tale was the truth.
Speaker 3: The cops say.
Speaker 2: They couldn't do much because she didn't know where or
Speaker 2: by who, And it's like, yeah, you're supposed.
Speaker 3: To figure that out.
Speaker 2: You're expecting a kidnap victim to give you the address, Like,
Speaker 2: what are you talking about. Also, what I think hindred
Speaker 2: the case was there's a six foot fence that was
Speaker 2: built around his property by a developer who owned nice
Speaker 2: houses around his shittys house with all this junk and cans,
Speaker 2: and so they it made the neighborhood look bad. So
Speaker 2: these developers built a fortress around his house so no
Speaker 2: one could see what he was doing. So it was
Speaker 2: kind of like he had secrecy too. And then they
Speaker 2: also found dozens of photographs of girls that the authorities
Speaker 2: still need to identify. So we just know about the
Speaker 2: victims that we know about, but like there were photos
Speaker 2: of other women and he's a victim blamer, obvious. He
Speaker 2: said that these women were very promiscuous and they manipulated him,
Speaker 2: he told the Syracuse Post Standard. No I never considered
Speaker 2: anybody a kidnap victim because he didn't demand cash ransoms
Speaker 2: and he knew it was wrong. He just thought it
Speaker 2: was detaining somebody or unlawful imprisonment, not kidnapping. So he's
Speaker 2: playing semantics games with crimes. I mean, he's a bad cycle.
Speaker 2: He's a Teresa Judas like honestly, the first chief Assistant
Speaker 2: District Attorney, Rick trun Feo, said that he is that
Speaker 2: this guy.
Speaker 3: Jake Jamalki or what are John whatever his name is.
Speaker 2: He's a very controlling, very manipulative, and very smart guy.
Speaker 3: He knows that legally.
Speaker 2: He's done something wrong, but I don't think in his
Speaker 2: heart he really thinks he's done anything wrong. So that
Speaker 2: was the district attorney. That's that Jamalski took a plea agreement,
Speaker 2: and because of that, it didn't include charges of rape,
Speaker 2: even though it like it is rape, but he didn't
Speaker 2: want to be charged for rape because he didn't believe it.
Speaker 2: So he took this plea deal because he's still going
Speaker 2: to be there for life. So it's like, yeah, it's
Speaker 2: kind of like if no one has to take the stand,
Speaker 2: there's no trial. He's going to be locked up, and
Speaker 2: maybe it wasn't.
Speaker 1: If you don't have to put the woman through testifying,
Speaker 1: I guess that's worth it. Yeah, but I obviously understand
Speaker 1: like the disappointment of not being charged with things that
Speaker 1: you obviously did, and it would probably be like per
Speaker 1: rape as well.
Speaker 2: You know, it would be a lot of charges. But
Speaker 2: after months and months he did admit. He's like, well,
Speaker 2: I did some things wrong, and the judge greed obviously,
Speaker 2: So yeah, he pled guilty, and at his sentencing he
Speaker 2: cried and asked for leniency and said he was sorry
Speaker 2: and like about how it affected, but the judge did
Speaker 2: not give a fuck. Love Judge Anthony Alloy, who rejected
Speaker 2: his requests and said that he hoped that he died
Speaker 2: in prison. So I love that, And the judge said
Speaker 2: called him a sick coward. He said, you're an evil man.
Speaker 2: You are a kidnapper and rapist, a master manipulator of
Speaker 2: people and the truth. But your reign of terror is over.
Speaker 2: Like does a judge plan that? Like does he rehearse it?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 2: Is he waited for this moment to fucking rip at someone?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I think they probably write their comments out right. I
Speaker 1: don't probably do. I think they probably write their like
Speaker 1: final comments. I don't think that many judges are like
Speaker 1: good at imbrov or Exteparani's speaking.
Speaker 3: But maybe he so.
Speaker 2: The judge gave him eighteen to life, but could have
Speaker 2: given him one hundred and twenty five years. But he
Speaker 2: took the plea, but it's still eighteen to life. He
Speaker 2: had a possibility for parole in twenty twenty one. That's
Speaker 2: a tease. Stay tuned, give me a second. So he's
Speaker 2: like eighty six around twenty twenty one. Part of the plea, though,
Speaker 2: is that his assets are to be used to compensate
Speaker 2: his victims. And you're thinking of this junkyard fool, where
Speaker 2: did he have money? This is like the show. Even
Speaker 2: though he was a junkyard bottleman, he was not poor.
Speaker 2: He actually had around a million dollars in mostly real
Speaker 2: estate investments, and all the money went to the victims.
Speaker 1: Wow, that's great. Yeah, that's like silver little silver lining.
Speaker 2: There's also rumor that he inherited money, and he also
Speaker 2: got a giant payday when the developers bought the land
Speaker 2: around his place to build luxury homes. So that's like
Speaker 2: where his money came from. So the proceeds from the
Speaker 2: house sale also went to the victims, and the bunker
Speaker 2: was demolished, but so that money also went there. He
Speaker 2: is now currently at the Clinton Correctional Facility in Dana Mora, New.
Speaker 3: York, Oh. Escape from Dana Mora Baby.
Speaker 2: Yes, and you mentioned that case in this episode about
Speaker 2: the wall, the empty wall, and like what's.
Speaker 3: Going on else? Yeah, So I.
Speaker 2: Found an article from February ninth, twenty twenty one about
Speaker 2: his virtual parole hearing that happened December fifteenth, twenty twenty.
Speaker 3: They denied his parole. Of course, he still.
Speaker 2: Denies he did anything wrong and refuses treatment. And that's
Speaker 2: basically it, like they need you to learn a lesson.
Speaker 2: The were Parole Board ruled that his release would be
Speaker 2: incompatible with the welfare of society. Also, after being in
Speaker 2: prison for eighteen years, he did state I had a bunker,
Speaker 2: and people knew I had a bunker. We partied a
Speaker 2: lot there, and I was approached every now and then
Speaker 2: by someone that said it would be a good idea
Speaker 2: for a friend of hers that's a runaway to be
Speaker 2: there rather than out on the streets and that they
Speaker 2: came and as a trade off, we had sex.
Speaker 1: That's so fucking dexter new Blood, because the guy would
Speaker 1: get these girls that were runaways and be like, you
Speaker 1: want a nice warm bed, you want a bottle of
Speaker 1: champagne and some strawberries, And they were like they thought
Speaker 1: they hit the fucking jackpot.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: He also made requests in his official prison record to
Speaker 2: state certain things, and none of them really I don't understand.
Speaker 2: But he wanted everyone to know that he gave his
Speaker 2: victims scented candles.
Speaker 3: Wow, oh thanks for that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that he's like, oh, and I still have
Speaker 2: contacts with the victims once they left, like we're friends.
Speaker 3: Like he truly does not pe a person, like there's
Speaker 3: nothing really to it. I'm not. I'm not the bottle
Speaker 3: dispense guy. I don't see much good, monk.
Speaker 2: The only thing he closely got to admitting was that
Speaker 2: maybe he caused them direct harm, and he said, I
Speaker 2: probably inadvertently. Probably, yes, yes, I could have talked them
Speaker 2: into returning to their families sooner. But when it did happen,
Speaker 2: you know, they gathered their stuff together, we jumped in
Speaker 2: a car and I drove them to their families like what, Sorry,
Speaker 2: I make him sound like a valley girl if you
Speaker 2: google him?
Speaker 3: Why would you? Why would you?
Speaker 1: Fucking why is there a lock on the door done like,
Speaker 1: you know, to protect them?
Speaker 3: You know it's it's yeah, yeah, it's it's fucking insane, insane.
Speaker 2: It's nonsense. But that's what I got for you, guys.
Speaker 2: I hope you hated every second of it. And I
Speaker 2: hate him and I hate the police, but I'm impressed
Speaker 2: with Dick Wolf and Sview and Neil Baert to create
Speaker 2: such an intertwined episode.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you so much Lisa for all of that.
Speaker 1: And stick around because we have an amazing interview coming up,
Speaker 1: you guys. I was truly gagged when this guest said
Speaker 1: that they would do our podcast. She has a resume
Speaker 1: that you would not believe. I grew up watching her.
Speaker 1: She was the star of movies like Pump Up the Volume.
Speaker 1: She was a voice Infermully, she was in the original
Speaker 1: Little Women and American Psycho, and recently had a recurring
Speaker 1: role on Billions. She's truly working, booked, blessed, and so talented.
Speaker 1: And you guys knew her today as Hillary Barclay. Guys,
Speaker 1: the one and only Samantha Mathis.
Speaker 4: Yay.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, Samantha, we cannot believe we're talking to
Speaker 1: an SVU queen.
Speaker 4: Oh my goodness, thank you. I guess I have been
Speaker 4: on the show a few times.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you're never a tiny part.
Speaker 1: In fact, I remember when I watched Swimming with Sharks,
Speaker 1: that the most recent one you did. When I saw
Speaker 1: your name in the credits and then the way that
Speaker 1: they were sort of like not featuring you at the beginning,
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, well, now I just know she
Speaker 1: did this, Like I know that she's involved, because they're
Speaker 1: not bringing Samantha Mathis in to just be an assistant
Speaker 1: that I see in one scene, or like not an assistant,
Speaker 1: but like a side character that I see in one scene.
Speaker 1: So unfortunately, your celebrity is ruining plot lines.
Speaker 4: Oh well, I suppose that's just how it goes on
Speaker 4: Law and Order. You know, if a certain level of
Speaker 4: actors on the show, they are either a perpetrator or victim.
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 2: Since we started with that episode, the Swimming with Sharks,
Speaker 2: I really love this scene where you have all these
Speaker 2: potions and bottles behind you. Did it look as pretty
Speaker 2: in person or was this just a set and movie magic.
Speaker 4: Oh no, it was actually really beautiful. Yeah, I know,
Speaker 4: they they surprised me. I mean, not that they wouldn't
Speaker 4: have incredible sense, but yeah, I walked in there and
Speaker 4: I was like, oh, nice, nice lab, very very free,
Speaker 4: so many different color potions.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, and then my thing that I just need
Speaker 2: to say, you're very very lucky.
Speaker 3: And I don't know if you know this.
Speaker 2: You got to work, you got you were there for
Speaker 2: the Stabler years, the Amorrow years, and the Kreesi years,
Speaker 2: So you got to work with each of the Hunk detectives,
Speaker 2: which not very many people can have had time with
Speaker 2: each of those men, so kind of thrilling.
Speaker 3: Do you have a favorite?
Speaker 4: Oh golly, I think they're all hunky and delicious. I'm
Speaker 4: just lucky to keep being asked back over the years.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So, how did like, how did your SVU like
Speaker 3: journey start? Like when you did Control season five, the
Speaker 3: show's like sort of on a roll, maybe not quite
Speaker 3: as well known as it is now, Like did you
Speaker 3: watch it in advance or were you like, yeah, do
Speaker 3: this or you know, was what was the vibe with
Speaker 3: that one?
Speaker 4: I'm pretty sure at that point Warren Light had been
Speaker 4: on the show, and you know, Warren was on it
Speaker 4: and then he stepped away from it, and then he
Speaker 4: came back to it. So I'm pretty sure because Warren
Speaker 4: and I had met when he was looking to produce
Speaker 4: another play he'd written after Sideman and then pivoted to
Speaker 4: Law and Order. So I'm pretty sure that's when when
Speaker 4: I was asked to do it. But you know what,
Speaker 4: with COVID in the last two years, my memory is
Speaker 4: just I know, so what is time? Who was I
Speaker 4: in two thousand and five? Who am I now? I
Speaker 4: don't know. I was certainly familiar with the show, but
Speaker 4: I hope I don't disappoint anyone. I was never a
Speaker 4: weekly junkie.
Speaker 3: That's fine, that's plenty of people. But plenty of.
Speaker 4: People say but like, it is obviously a notch in
Speaker 4: any actors out to be on the mother Ship or
Speaker 4: any one of the Law Orders. It's like, as particularly
Speaker 4: if you're a New York actor, which I've now been
Speaker 4: for going on thirteen years, it's like, you can't be
Speaker 4: a New York actor and not get on one of
Speaker 4: the Law and Orders.
Speaker 3: It's just it's required.
Speaker 2: How was the wedding dress photo shoot?
Speaker 1: I wonder if they do you think they photoshopped it?
Speaker 1: Or do you think did they make you guys like
Speaker 1: put on wedding dress.
Speaker 3: I found it for you. I found there's you and.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, oh my god, wow with the dog
Speaker 4: collar on. Yeah, yes, yeah, yeah, I'm pretty sure they
Speaker 4: put that wedding dress on me. I'm pretty sure that's
Speaker 4: the real deal. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I love that because you're all wearing the same one.
Speaker 1: So many actresses must have had to pop into that
Speaker 1: thing for a quick photo shoot.
Speaker 4: They probably had it cut down the back and they
Speaker 4: just slipped it on each of us. Yeah, and then
Speaker 4: like took like grip clips and just closed it up
Speaker 4: on the back.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like when you're shopping for a real wedding dress.
Speaker 4: Totally.
Speaker 3: So okay, that's so.
Speaker 1: Funny, But so can can I ask more about Jacqueline Bessett,
Speaker 1: Like what was it like working with her?
Speaker 3: Like I was in silk pajamas.
Speaker 2: I like, there's a scene where you both are in
Speaker 2: silk robes and I really must have been maybe fun
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 4: I mean it was just the whole time was just
Speaker 4: like pinch me. I can't believe I'm acting, but Jacqueline
Speaker 4: is set playing her daughter. She's so classy and beautiful
Speaker 4: and just a total total professional and a class act
Speaker 4: a real you know, example of someone who's had incredible
Speaker 4: fame and and it's just a grounded good actress.
Speaker 3: Yeah, amazing.
Speaker 2: Your episode Reasonable Doubt was pretty star studded too.
Speaker 1: You had you There was a bit a lot of
Speaker 1: guest actors in it. Did you guys fraternize enjoy each other?
Speaker 4: Reasonable Doubt was the one where I was playing a
Speaker 4: version of me affair.
Speaker 3: I was like the Woody Allen episode.
Speaker 4: Oh my god.
Speaker 6: Yeah, Bradley Winford and and and Jeffrey and and and
Speaker 6: Celia Keenan Bulger, who's like such a genius theater actress.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that that was a ridiculous one. There were definitely
Speaker 4: some fun days and that, you know they have. Have
Speaker 4: you guys ever visited this set?
Speaker 3: Yeah, we started this.
Speaker 1: We started this podcast in COVID, so we're hoping that's
Speaker 1: a future visit.
Speaker 3: We fan we want to find a bad body.
Speaker 4: Well, you know, you should go. Warren Light's on Twitter
Speaker 4: a lot, so you know, maybe you should get on
Speaker 4: Twitter and just let him know that we did an
Speaker 4: interview and at him and see if he responds.
Speaker 7: But so yeah, there's like uh uh an area along
Speaker 7: hallway with everyone's dressing rooms.
Speaker 4: So that was a fun episode to just you know,
Speaker 4: lots of like being in the hallways and going in
Speaker 4: and having chit chats and as people do when you're
Speaker 4: shooting and you're in between scenes. But that was definitely
Speaker 4: a star studed collection of people in the hallways.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you got to do a scene in the courtroom,
Speaker 2: which is kind of one of the iconic SVU moments.
Speaker 3: Do they like, is everyone really sitting there or.
Speaker 2: Do they cut the Yeah, film it in sections.
Speaker 3: It's okay, wow.
Speaker 4: I mean they film in one direction and then they
Speaker 4: film in the other, but everyone's there. Yeah. I mean,
Speaker 4: you know sometimes they'll excuse someone for turnaround purposes. Do
Speaker 4: you guys know what that means? Like there's a certain
Speaker 4: amount of time that they have to give us off
Speaker 4: between when we finish at the end of the day
Speaker 4: and when we come back the next morning, so you
Speaker 4: know it's possible that, Like, I mean, they definitely shoot
Speaker 4: the direction of Marishka first. You know they're going to
Speaker 4: get but they're gonna get the Queen's coverage first, right,
Speaker 4: So I'm not gonna lie I it may be possible
Speaker 4: that by the time they turned around and and it was,
Speaker 4: you know, twelve hours later, because these scenes just take
Speaker 4: forever to shoot, you know. I mean, they're sup they're
Speaker 4: super fun and iconic, but they're also like every single
Speaker 4: character gets like a wide shot, a medium shot, a
Speaker 4: close up shot, and you know, it's a big show,
Speaker 4: so they've got two or three cameras going at the
Speaker 4: same time. But what I'm trying to say is it's
Speaker 4: possible that maybe someone wasn't on the other side of
Speaker 4: my coverage by the time they got to cross examining me.
Speaker 4: And I do recall that they saved my cross examination
Speaker 4: and the direction of the bench and myself for the
Speaker 4: second half of the day, which, quite frankly, in a
Speaker 4: situation like that where you're so dialogue have is fantastic
Speaker 4: because you get to practice and practice and practice and
Speaker 4: practice off camera before they come in and like boom,
Speaker 4: you're close up. Yeah. Yeah, but I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 4: It's entirely possible that the Divine Marishkat might have might
Speaker 4: have been sent home at that point because they have
Speaker 4: to bring her in so early the next morning, and
Speaker 4: they got to give her the twelve hours off. You know,
Speaker 4: it's Union rules.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you did this episode control in season five,
Speaker 1: and then you did Reasonable Doubt in season fifteen, so
Speaker 1: like ten years later, and then Swimming with the Sharks
Speaker 1: was six seasons later. Have you noticed, like I know,
Speaker 1: if you don't remember, it's fine, but like, have you
Speaker 1: noticed like changes in the show every time you go back,
Speaker 1: like anything that like rings different, like the feeling on
Speaker 1: the set or anything, or every time you go back,
Speaker 1: is it like I'm back the same again.
Speaker 3: I really, it's just like if.
Speaker 4: I remember my lines, that's really where all my memory
Speaker 4: goes to.
Speaker 7: So I can't I can't really say any particular change.
Speaker 4: I mean I would imagine. I guess the show has
Speaker 4: just grown more and more in its success. But it
Speaker 4: is one of those shows where the crew has been
Speaker 4: on it forever, you know, So you come back into
Speaker 4: the into the makeup and hair room and it's like,
Speaker 4: oh my god, I haven't seen you in six years. Yeah,
Speaker 4: you know, maybe the Croft service table is a little
Speaker 4: bit bigger than it was in two thousand and five.
Speaker 4: That's possible.
Speaker 3: We've heard good things. We've heard good things. We threws,
Speaker 3: we heard there's fresh juice.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, oh yeah. Look, you got to keep your
Speaker 4: cast and crew healthy and happy. When you're pulling twelve
Speaker 4: fourteen sixteen hour days, twenty to twenty six episodes a year,
Speaker 4: like ten and a half months out of the year,
Speaker 4: you got to keep people well fed. So yeah, they
Speaker 4: got some juice.
Speaker 2: How's the schedule for billions? Is it as grueling as
Speaker 2: like a Law and Order schedule?
Speaker 4: I mean, any one hour series is going to be
Speaker 4: is going to be long days. So yeah, you know
Speaker 4: they're they're usually for a lady in particular. You know,
Speaker 4: it's a fourteen hour day, so they're long days. But
Speaker 4: that's another you know, it's a very successful show. They
Speaker 4: take excellent care of everyone. Everyone's very well looked after,
Speaker 4: so they're long days.
Speaker 2: But we know, Dan Soder, is that impressive to you?
Speaker 4: That is super impressive to me. Dan.
Speaker 2: We're we're both stand up comedians and we were in
Speaker 2: New York for many years and so we just I
Speaker 2: was at the Comedy Cellar with Dan for a lot
Speaker 2: of years, Comedy Fest, Dance Soda.
Speaker 3: Sweet. He's such a great He's such a great guy.
Speaker 3: We love him.
Speaker 2: All of your co stars would be good on SVU
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I would love some Gamati on.
Speaker 4: Totes. What do you think that Asia Kate Dylan could
Speaker 4: play on Order SVU. I'd like to see that. I'm
Speaker 4: on the show.
Speaker 1: Oh yes, yes, that's another. That's another Orange is the
Speaker 1: new Black Alum too?
Speaker 4: Right? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, And there has.
Speaker 1: Been like the this is like the Venn diagram of
Speaker 1: Orange is the new Blacklane or a recpeo. It's like
Speaker 1: every single person.
Speaker 2: I would see them as a crime boss. I want
Speaker 2: like Russian crime boss.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, splitting up maybe on organized crime? Organized crime?
Speaker 4: Is that the new one?
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the new one with Maloney. Maloney's back.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm curious what you get recognized from the most.
Speaker 4: You know, it's interesting because I've been around for a
Speaker 4: few years. So sometimes it's.
Speaker 8: Just like someone thinks they know me, and I'm like,
Speaker 8: I don't think so, but you know, I'm I'm actually
Speaker 8: heading to Pensacola, Florida for one of these horror sci
Speaker 8: fi conventions, which I do from time to.
Speaker 7: Time, and Super Mario Brothers is always a big wow.
Speaker 7: Just you know, there's some there, there's some nostalgia for
Speaker 7: people from their childhood of it being something that they
Speaker 7: watched when.
Speaker 4: They were kids, so I get some Princess Daisy action.
Speaker 4: And then of course Norah de Niro from Pump Up
Speaker 4: the Volume the which you know, I guess I was
Speaker 4: like the first crush for a lot of dudes and
Speaker 4: some women and women who were around that age and
Speaker 4: wanted to emulate being as cool as that character was,
Speaker 4: which I wanted to be as cool as that character was. Yeah,
Speaker 4: And it's so exciting because I just realized on Twitter
Speaker 4: in the last week that HBO Max actually released it.
Speaker 4: It hasn't been available, it hasn't been streaming anywhere, and
Speaker 4: so it's finally out.
Speaker 3: I'm going to watch it.
Speaker 2: I'm really glad that it's back on the internet.
Speaker 4: I know, I'm curious to see. So the big problem
Speaker 4: with it being released in this day and age had
Speaker 4: been that, like there's so much incredible music on it,
Speaker 4: and I guess they hadn't licensed that music in perpetuity.
Speaker 4: You know, You've got like Leonard Cohen and the Pixy's
Speaker 4: and Lenny Kravitz and like it's a crazy good soundtrack,
Speaker 4: and they didn't have the licensing for it. So I
Speaker 4: guess Warner Brothers now that it's all HBO, MEX whatever.
Speaker 4: It's one big universe. They will. I think it's got
Speaker 4: the soundtrack. I think it does.
Speaker 3: But oh good, you have to check it out.
Speaker 4: Yeah you did mention.
Speaker 2: You know, you've been working and for a while from
Speaker 2: the night like doing so much. What are things that
Speaker 2: have changed in the industry that you like vers not
Speaker 2: bring me back to the nineties.
Speaker 4: You know, when I started out in nineteen eighty six,
Speaker 4: you know, the desired trajectory of an actor was to
Speaker 4: get to film, you know, and once you got out
Speaker 4: of television, you didn't want to be television anymore because
Speaker 4: you were labeled a television actor. That obviously is not
Speaker 4: the case anymore. It's a whole new landscape. And you know,
Speaker 4: in the eighties, independent cinema was just on fire, so
Speaker 4: it was an incredible time to be making small movies.
Speaker 4: Now it's all about television or streaming content, and that
Speaker 4: to me is actually really exciting. It's been interesting to see.
Speaker 4: I don't know what it's been like for you guys
Speaker 4: during the last two years of this pandemic, but my
Speaker 4: attention span has really craved television shows over film. Same
Speaker 4: It's like, I just want to dive into five seasons
Speaker 4: of something.
Speaker 2: So on IMDb, your first credit is Aaron's Way And
Speaker 2: was that really like your first professional gig, being a
Speaker 2: series regular on a show?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, wow. Were you like Wow, I'm incredible.
Speaker 4: I was like, Wow, this is great. I'm totally gonna
Speaker 4: have this amazing career. And my mom was like, it's
Speaker 4: really not that easy. And I was like, yeah, whatever,
Speaker 4: We're shooting the pilot in Australia, bye, and she was like,
Speaker 4: oh God, it's not going to be so glamorous. You're
Speaker 4: gonna be in the middle of nowhere. You're going to
Speaker 4: be staying in a motel six and you know I
Speaker 4: have and she was right. But I was very blessed. Yeah,
Speaker 4: you know, because my mom was an actress. Enough of
Speaker 4: her friends knew that I wanted to pursue a career
Speaker 4: at the age of twelve, to which my mother said no.
Speaker 4: But after four years of begging, she said, Okay, you know,
Speaker 4: you can give it a shot. And I knew just
Speaker 4: enough people from her universe that were like, yeah, I'll
Speaker 4: read your kid, and within like two months, I got
Speaker 4: this TV series. It was incredible.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then like I'm one of these people that
Speaker 1: watched you like all growing up, like Pump Up the Volume.
Speaker 3: This is my life, little woman, like Fern Gully.
Speaker 1: You're a voice on Fern, Like I just can't it's
Speaker 1: it's just so wild. Like but like you did this
Speaker 1: TV show in eighty eight and by ninety you were
Speaker 1: on Pump Up the Volume, which you were a huge
Speaker 1: leading role. So like that, it seems like things went
Speaker 1: pretty fast for you at the beginning.
Speaker 4: Well Erin's Way was eighty six eighty.
Speaker 3: Oh, I'm looking at on on dB. It might be off, it.
Speaker 9: Might be yeah, it might be off, but yeah, I
Speaker 9: mean it was about three years and suddenly I was
Speaker 9: doing my first feature film that we made a big
Speaker 9: fancy premiere at Grandma's Chinese Theater and suddenly I was
Speaker 9: in it girl, and.
Speaker 4: Like having that that yeah moment in Hollywood, which was
Speaker 4: just amazing.
Speaker 3: Did you ever work with your mom?
Speaker 4: She did a very small role in a TV movie
Speaker 4: just for fun, for us to get to do a
Speaker 4: scene together. It was called Extreme Close Up and it
Speaker 4: was produced by Edswick and Marshall Hurstkovetz of thirty something Same.
Speaker 4: They produced it, and Peter Horton, who was an actor
Speaker 4: on that, directed this and so it was like a
Speaker 4: really tiny scene and I was like, do you want
Speaker 4: to just come do this for fun? And so she did.
Speaker 4: We were supposed to do a play together once and
Speaker 4: I had to pull out of it, so we didn't
Speaker 4: really get to act together that much, which is a bummer.
Speaker 3: And do you do theater a lot?
Speaker 4: I tried to. I mean, you know, I can't afford
Speaker 4: to do it all the time. But I actually just
Speaker 4: closed in a small musical in New York City. We
Speaker 4: just finished doing it about a week and a half ago,
Speaker 4: called Whisper House. The music was written by Duncan Chic.
Speaker 1: He did another big musical he did Bring Awakening, which
Speaker 1: awakened at all.
Speaker 4: Yes, just did either of you see that?
Speaker 3: Oh? I did.
Speaker 2: I got fired from fat Camp. I was a counselor.
Speaker 2: I was I was twenty years old. I got fired
Speaker 2: from fat Camp and was They just dropped me off
Speaker 2: at a bus and so I had to go to
Speaker 2: New York City and I saw the sign of Spring
Speaker 2: Awakening and I went, I have to see it. And
Speaker 2: I called my dad and I was like, please buy.
Speaker 1: Me a ticket to this play. Oh yeah. So it
Speaker 1: was a big moment for me. Sorry to go on
Speaker 1: and on. But yeah, I saw it and it meant
Speaker 1: a lot to me to be able to see it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it was revolutionary at the time, like
Speaker 4: the choreography, the whole notion of the juxtaposition between rock
Speaker 4: and roll music with these kids in German little pinaphores
Speaker 4: and school was amazing. Anyway, Yeah, we just did this
Speaker 4: musical called Whisper House, which we were supposed to do
Speaker 4: in twenty twenty, and we were about to go on
Speaker 4: stage on March the twelfth to do our very first
Speaker 4: performance and Broadway shut down and then we shut down.
Speaker 4: It was an off Broadway show, but so we never
Speaker 4: did it. We never got to do it, and so
Speaker 4: it's been a wild time, ladies, because like two years later,
Speaker 4: we reassembled in New York City in December to start rehearsals,
Speaker 4: and what happens, Yeah, and what happens We have an
Speaker 4: outbreak in the rehearsal room the second week and six
Speaker 4: of us get COVID, including myself. So then we.
Speaker 5: Moved to Zoom and we rehearsed on Zoom, which is
Speaker 5: not ideal theater. Took a Christmas break, which is me
Speaker 5: home with COVID for a week and then we went
Speaker 5: back and rehearsed entirely in mosques the rest of the time.
Speaker 4: The first time, well, the first time we were in
Speaker 4: front of a live audience was only the second time
Speaker 4: we'd ever done the plate see each other's faces. It
Speaker 4: was a wild experience and a miracle because we actually
Speaker 4: got through the run. We had no understudies, and so
Speaker 4: if any of the three cast members who didn't get
Speaker 4: COVID got COVID, we would be shut down. Every day
Speaker 4: shows in New York were shutting down. I don't know
Speaker 4: if you guys follow that stuff, but like so many
Speaker 4: plays that somehow we made it through. We were like
Speaker 4: the little plate that could. So, yeah, I just did
Speaker 4: a play and now I'm recovering.
Speaker 2: And are you like New York till you die? Or
Speaker 2: you enjoy the West Coast and you're like, you'll dat?
Speaker 4: I mean, I would look. I grew up in Los Angeles.
Speaker 4: There are things I really love about it. I love
Speaker 4: being an actor in LA when I'm working. I don't
Speaker 4: like being an actor in LA when I'm not working.
Speaker 4: There's something that's just mentally healthier for me about being
Speaker 4: on the East Coast. And I had been NYC writer die.
Speaker 4: But then the pandemic happened, and I bought this house
Speaker 4: in the country and was in contract on it to
Speaker 4: have it like to use a little bit of the time,
Speaker 4: but to also be able to rent it out and
Speaker 4: have an Airbnb, And then the pandemic hit and I
Speaker 4: moved up here. So I'm living in upstate New York.
Speaker 4: I'm a country girl now.
Speaker 3: Whoa.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we talked to a couple of other actors that
Speaker 1: have done that. Actually, it sounds like the move like
Speaker 1: you can still get to the city easily, but you're
Speaker 1: got some space out there and it's beautiful.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Do you have any other like upcoming projects now that
Speaker 1: the play is done that you want, like our listeners
Speaker 1: to be sort of eyes peeled for or anything.
Speaker 4: Well, I did a little part in pet Cemetery in
Speaker 4: nineteen sixty nine and that's coming out in April on
Speaker 4: Paramount Plus. Oh wow, there's a very handsome lad named
Speaker 4: Jackson White who's the lead of the movie, and Henry
Speaker 4: Thomas and myself play his parents. Okay, yeah, oh it's
Speaker 4: pet Cemetery. Yeah, I've pet Cemetery the origin story. So
Speaker 4: we go back to nineteen sixty nine and learn even
Speaker 4: more of the origin of why these pets are possessed.
Speaker 1: And that just is it what what is this thing
Speaker 1: called the Georgetown Project that you did? Is that like
Speaker 1: a that's another horrory type of thing.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it is. It's I don't know when it's coming out.
Speaker 4: It's sort of stuck in a limbo period right now
Speaker 4: with the editing process, but it is. It is a
Speaker 4: retelling of the Exorcist in present time. They're trying to
Speaker 4: remake the movie it, so it's sort of meta. It's
Speaker 4: about these these people that are trying to remake the
Speaker 4: movie and no one wants to touch it because it's cursed.
Speaker 4: You know, the actual movie when they shot it back
Speaker 4: in the day, there were several people who died during
Speaker 4: the production of the movie, and so there's this lore
Speaker 4: that anyone getting involved with the Exorcist, they die. So
Speaker 4: that's what's happening in present time. And so they hire
Speaker 4: a washed up action star to play the lead and
Speaker 4: that's uh, that's Russell Crowe and he's kind of an
Speaker 4: alcoholic and a bit of a mess. And then and
Speaker 4: then you know, is he losing his mind or is
Speaker 4: he being haunted? And strange things start to happen during
Speaker 4: the production of the movie.
Speaker 3: And did weird things happen and.
Speaker 4: Weird things, Oh, did weird things happen while I was there?
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know no, but I'm.
Speaker 4: Gonna tell you that there's like a witchy shop in
Speaker 4: the Lower East Side, No, in the East Village, And
Speaker 4: I went there and I talked to some of these
Speaker 4: white witches and I was like, I'm going to do
Speaker 4: this thing and I just need like a candle to
Speaker 4: protect me. And they were like, aha, incredible. And they'd
Speaker 4: take out a candle and start carving in it and
Speaker 4: they were like, what, there's Satan involved, okay, And they
Speaker 4: like created this whole candle that had like spells and
Speaker 4: ointments and sparkles and all these things. I just I
Speaker 4: was like, you know what, you can never be too safe.
Speaker 3: Wow, we love it. We love witchy stuff. She's badass.
Speaker 1: I can't believe we got to talk to her, like
Speaker 1: I truly, Like I remember watching pop up the volume
Speaker 1: being like this girl is so cool, like and she like.
Speaker 3: I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 1: And I dated all these Hollywood people in the eighties,
Speaker 1: like I mean, sorry, the nineties.
Speaker 2: She's just like very very cool and chill, and this
Speaker 2: rarely happens that people are like, oh, yeah, my mom
Speaker 2: helped me meet an age you know, like, yeah, I
Speaker 2: love that she was able to be like, yeah, my
Speaker 2: mom was an actoring and she knew this person and
Speaker 2: then I got booked. Instead of pretending that doesn't exist, right,
Speaker 2: you know, yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just enjoyed that.
Speaker 2: Or when someone goes, oh yeah, I grew up wealthy
Speaker 2: or something like it's weird that people aren't honest about you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean, it doesn't that cool. It doesn't
Speaker 1: to mean how much she's worked. Sure, she's worked very hard.
Speaker 1: I mean, judging by the fact that she literally started
Speaker 1: in the late eighties and by the early nineties was
Speaker 1: like a household name, basically sounds like she worked sucking hard.
Speaker 2: Well, it's the Kim Kardashian of it all. Katherine Ryan,
Speaker 2: superstar in life, she was saying, she goes. People are
Speaker 2: mad at the Kim Kardashian statement. It's not about you.
Speaker 2: She's not talking to you. She's talking to other rich
Speaker 2: people who don't do stuff. Yeah, stop taking it as
Speaker 2: a personal attack, Like maybe like she doesn't realize people
Speaker 2: have it different. She is trying to help people get
Speaker 2: out of jail. Like I think she understands inequality in
Speaker 2: the world. Maybe not, but I did like that perspective.
Speaker 2: I just didn't hear someone go, yeah, it's not about you.
Speaker 2: She's not talking about the people that are working hourly
Speaker 2: like at jud you know, jobs that fucking exploit you.
Speaker 2: I think she's talking to like her peers that she
Speaker 2: went to high.
Speaker 1: School, or like influencers that are like I just want
Speaker 1: to like post post like bikini shots and make a
Speaker 1: bunch of money, you know, And She's like, you actually
Speaker 1: have to do a lot more if you want to
Speaker 1: like get to my level, which is probably true.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So that was just interesting because everyone it's like people
Speaker 2: just rage so hard. It's kind of like my tweet
Speaker 2: where I go parents that post their kids constantly, and
Speaker 2: then it was like you hate kids, you have no soul.
Speaker 3: I'm just like, what that is not what I want? Yeah,
Speaker 3: people about what I wrote. That's the Internet.
Speaker 1: But like, look, I'm not even like a huge Kim
Speaker 1: fan or anything. I just like, I fucking hate what
Speaker 1: Kanye is doing to her right now. So right now
Speaker 1: I'm on her side about pretty much anything.
Speaker 3: I didn't love the work comment when I first heard it.
Speaker 1: I was like, obviously you have to put it in
Speaker 1: the right context and not everyone's going to take it
Speaker 1: out of context. But like, he is being such a
Speaker 1: fucking nightmare continually to her, and I just I got
Speaker 1: to support her on that because it's he's he's the worst.
Speaker 3: He is the worst. And I'm glad, not really, I'm.
Speaker 2: I don't know the adjective, but that people are seeing
Speaker 2: what it's like to leave an abusive relationship on such.
Speaker 3: A big scale. Like, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I think it's important and it sucks that she has
Speaker 2: to go through it, but I hope it penetrates people's
Speaker 2: brains a little bit and makes people understand or become empathetic.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: But it's also weird that Pete Davidson's in the middle
Speaker 2: of it all.
Speaker 3: I'm like, what is happening.
Speaker 1: He's calling out Michael Chay and I'm like, it's so fun,
Speaker 1: it's so weird.
Speaker 3: Wait, what's the Michael Chay of it at all?
Speaker 1: I didn't see just like posted on it Kanye Kanye,
Speaker 1: oh wow, yeah, Like it was basically what he deleted
Speaker 1: it already, but it was basically like this what he
Speaker 1: did for Trevor Noah, but he did it for Michael Chai.
Speaker 3: What's the Trevor. I don't know any of this.
Speaker 1: He just like it's just his erratic posts, you know
Speaker 1: how he deletes everything, like he only ever has like
Speaker 1: ten posts up. I don't know he had one up
Speaker 1: that was just the Google results of Michael Shay. He's
Speaker 1: always like trying to like poke at Michael Chay. I
Speaker 1: think it's because of the Peat connection, but I don't
Speaker 1: know anyway, what else to this episode.
Speaker 2: I would just say, you know, fucking believe women, even
Speaker 2: if it's the craziest story you've ever heard, because the
Speaker 2: depths of evil are all around us.
Speaker 3: Yeah, wow, that's very eloquently foot.
Speaker 2: You know, everyone's evil, so like it doesn't matter if
Speaker 2: someone's drunk or this story is wild, Like I'm sure
Speaker 2: it's real.
Speaker 3: I don't know. Yeah, it just sucks to know.
Speaker 1: But people are always gonna people are always gonna like
Speaker 1: prey upon people that won't be you know, they prey
Speaker 1: upon people that have like, you know, vulnerabilities. And that's
Speaker 1: what's so fucked up. When she tried, we need to
Speaker 1: help more people.
Speaker 2: And if someone brings a teenager as a date and
Speaker 2: they're a grown person to a family party, kick him
Speaker 2: off out of the party.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it just it really did make me not
Speaker 1: that I wanted, like Samantha Mathis's character to not exist,
Speaker 1: but it did make me realize how much like that
Speaker 1: this mother did not look like she had a lot
Speaker 1: of resentment for her child because she felt like her
Speaker 1: child ended her life in a lot of ways. And
Speaker 1: that's why we need to have choice. You know, Like
Speaker 1: I don't wish that she wasn't didn't exist, but you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like the mom was like she
Speaker 1: ended my modeling career, she ended my relationships. It's like
Speaker 1: you didn't want a kid, and she's like, I didn't
Speaker 1: have a choice, and it's like, well, luckily, we still
Speaker 1: for the minute have choice. Who knows how long it's
Speaker 1: going to take the Supreme Court to dismantle that, but
Speaker 1: right now we have it.
Speaker 2: Also And shout out to Joyel Nicole Johnson. She was
Speaker 2: nominated for a Critics Choice Award this last week or
Speaker 2: two weeks ago for her Comedies special on Peacock. But
Speaker 2: she brought her clutch on the red carpets that abortion
Speaker 2: is normal, Oh awesome, And so she was really pumping
Speaker 2: up that purse and built her whole outfit and look
Speaker 2: around her purse.
Speaker 1: I shouldn't have doubted you, but I really did not
Speaker 1: know where you were going with that, and I thought
Speaker 1: you were just going into a shout out for Joyel,
Speaker 1: and I was like, okay, right from abortion, how bad.
Speaker 3: I shouldn't have doubted you. I knew there was a
Speaker 3: tie in.
Speaker 2: Well, she's she's worked with Lady Parts Justice and she's
Speaker 2: very good, Like she will go to a group of
Speaker 2: people protesting abortion and choice and calmly talk to them
Speaker 2: for like hours to try to change their mind. Like
Speaker 2: she does the groundwork and goes to these fucking dumb
Speaker 2: towns and talks to like dumb teenage boys who think
Speaker 2: they have an opinion on anything.
Speaker 1: And so she really does a lot of the work.
Speaker 1: So that's shout out, shout out to Joel. Yeah, everybody
Speaker 1: check out her special And then let's just segue into
Speaker 1: what would Sister Peg do. This is our weekly segment
Speaker 1: where we give you guys an organization, a link of books,
Speaker 1: one thing that will give you more info about what
Speaker 1: we talked about in today's episode. This week, we want
Speaker 1: to highlight the national sexual Violence Resource Center which is
Speaker 1: at www dot NSVRC dot org and they are the
Speaker 1: leading nonprofit and providing information and tools to prevent and
Speaker 1: respond to sexual violence. They address the causes and impact
Speaker 1: of sexual violence through collaboration, prevention and resources, offering comprehensive
Speaker 1: support through helping communities prevent sexual violence using research, community
Speaker 1: based practices to create safe and respectful environments. They identify
Speaker 1: and disseminate resources related to all aspects of sexual violence
Speaker 1: and promote research and statistics, trends, and best practices and
Speaker 1: sexual assault preventions. And they do so much more so.
Speaker 1: While they are not a direct service provider, they do
Speaker 1: refer callers seeking counseling and support to partner organizations in
Speaker 1: your area on local, state, national levels. So if you
Speaker 1: want to learn more, check out their website again that's
Speaker 1: www dot NSVRC and that will also be as always
Speaker 1: in our stories the day that this episode comes out,
Speaker 1: and always in our Instagram highlight called WWSPD.
Speaker 2: And you guys are such incredible people and I know
Speaker 2: you're gonna check out all the resources that touch your heart.
Speaker 3: And you guys really showed up for Ukraine.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we earned a bunch of money for the Ukraine
Speaker 1: more than twenty four hundred dollars and that was so like,
Speaker 1: so awesome of all of you guys to give.
Speaker 3: I'm sure people gave, but.
Speaker 1: That was just what we counted of the donations that
Speaker 1: were fifty plus.
Speaker 3: And you guys are so generous.
Speaker 1: We love you and we hope to see you live
Speaker 1: at our shows. That's messed up live dot com, check
Speaker 1: out the live stream, etc.
Speaker 2: I did run into Nick Foon at south By and
Speaker 2: he goes I love that podcast now at the top
Speaker 2: up to start with like listing out the thank yous
Speaker 2: to all the gifts they get. I thought that was
Speaker 2: funny where it's like and thank you so much for
Speaker 2: bringing that knitted handbag.
Speaker 3: To the show. It's true and people are so cool.
Speaker 2: Next week we got a fucking Warren light tongue twister.
Speaker 2: Remember me in Quarantine Season twenty two, episode three, Peacock
Speaker 2: Hulu VPN sticks fire sticks everywhere.
Speaker 1: VPNs are not sticks. But you've been saying it for
Speaker 1: so long that I didn't want to change your mind.
Speaker 1: But somebody did write into us and I was like,
Speaker 1: I do know that, but I sometimes I just let
Speaker 1: Lisa go, you know, no, but yeah, get a VPN
Speaker 1: and watch us illegally across the world. We'll see you
Speaker 1: guys next week.
Speaker 3: Bye. That's Messed Up is an Exactly Right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: at That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod
Speaker 2: and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us
Speaker 2: personally at Caraca and at glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much to our producer Analie Nelson and
Speaker 3: to our mixing engineer RYO Baum, and to Henry Kaperski
Speaker 3: for our theme song.
Speaker 1: And to Carly Geen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you
Speaker 1: to our executive producers Georgia Hardstark, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer
Speaker 1: and everyone at Exactly Right Media.
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Speaker 1: Dun, Dun,