1
00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:03,760
Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

2
00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:07,240
Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

3
00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:11,600
Speaker 1: its affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

4
00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:22,680
Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on Iheat Radio. We're talking

5
00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:25,680
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. We have a stacked night

6
00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:28,600
Speaker 2: of headlines here on June twenty sixth, So listen.

7
00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:29,720
Speaker 3: I'm Stephanie Leidecker.

8
00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:33,040
Speaker 2: I'm here with Courtney Armstrong and Body move in and

9
00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:35,360
Speaker 2: we have a big night because, as you well know,

10
00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:39,879
Speaker 2: Diddy's prosecution, the trial is coming to a close and

11
00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:42,599
Speaker 2: we had a big day today of closing arguments. We

12
00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:45,960
Speaker 2: also have, of course, our very own Jarret Ferrantino. He'll

13
00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:47,760
Speaker 2: be joining us to kind of break down the latest

14
00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:51,040
Speaker 2: developments there. We also have a special person in the house,

15
00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:55,680
Speaker 2: director and executive producer of The Idaho Student Murders, which

16
00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:58,200
Speaker 2: we're doing now for Peacock and that hasn't aired yet.

17
00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:00,720
Speaker 2: And also she also did the Pike how Many Murders

18
00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:03,240
Speaker 2: with us, So we have some inside scoop.

19
00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:06,119
Speaker 3: And all things documentaries. But first we're going to get

20
00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:08,600
Speaker 3: right into ditty. So where should we begin?

21
00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:10,880
Speaker 4: I mean, listen, I can't wait for this to be over.

22
00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:16,400
Speaker 4: I I'm ja done. Yeah, I'm dittied out and this

23
00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:18,600
Speaker 4: needs to be wrapped up as soon as possible. So

24
00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:22,440
Speaker 4: closing arguments began today in the trial against Sean Diddy Combes.

25
00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:27,720
Speaker 4: The prosecution highlighted his multiple I'm saying multiple reco predicate

26
00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:31,280
Speaker 4: acts and with an emphasis on sex trafficking. The defense

27
00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:34,560
Speaker 4: is set to counter tomorrow. Remember they were saying they

28
00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:36,800
Speaker 4: were going to need three to four hours the procet

29
00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:39,440
Speaker 4: and nowt to wrap everything up. Prosecutors alleged that from

30
00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:41,880
Speaker 4: two thousand and four to twenty twenty four did he

31
00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:46,800
Speaker 4: operated a criminal enterprise that involved kidnapping, arson, bribery, and

32
00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:49,920
Speaker 4: sex trafficking. And they're saying that he used his influence

33
00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:52,280
Speaker 4: in the music industry to lure people in and he's

34
00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:56,120
Speaker 4: facing life in prison. Diddy has pled not guilty to

35
00:01:56,320 --> 00:02:00,640
Speaker 4: all of the charges. So today was the basically the

36
00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:04,440
Speaker 4: United States government wrapping up their case and telling the

37
00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:07,960
Speaker 4: jury like a summary of what everything that they presented.

38
00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:11,480
Speaker 4: And it was given by the Assistant United States Attorney

39
00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:16,520
Speaker 4: Christy Slavic. She broke down each charge and how didty

40
00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:20,120
Speaker 4: relates to each of those charges. She said, there's a

41
00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:24,440
Speaker 4: criminal enterprise. She called Ditty the leader of this violent

42
00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:29,200
Speaker 4: criminal enterprise behind crimes including sex trafficking, bribery, and kidnapping.

43
00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:32,320
Speaker 4: She said there were racketeering acts. Now, these are all

44
00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:35,520
Speaker 4: the predicate acts of Rico that Diddy is being accused of.

45
00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:40,760
Speaker 4: She also said the jury must unanimously find that Ditty

46
00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:44,400
Speaker 4: knowingly agreed to commit at least two. Remember I've been

47
00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:47,000
Speaker 4: talking about two predicate acts for Rico. We learned that

48
00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:49,400
Speaker 4: from you, my friend. You did I'm so proud of

49
00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:54,200
Speaker 4: are you the racketeering I'm the Rico queen. Apparently, as

50
00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:58,920
Speaker 4: like if you only knew, such as drug distribution, bribery,

51
00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:03,400
Speaker 4: and sex trafficking. For the drug distribution, she said, drug

52
00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:06,960
Speaker 4: distribution was essential to each freakoff. In order to have

53
00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:08,840
Speaker 4: these freak offs, they had to be like hyped up

54
00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:14,080
Speaker 4: on drugs and they needed these drugs for combs, you know,

55
00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:15,000
Speaker 4: to see and.

56
00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:18,320
Speaker 5: They needed to be distributed and moved around and cured.

57
00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:21,399
Speaker 5: And they have many witnesses who spoke to what went

58
00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:22,040
Speaker 5: into all of.

59
00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:24,120
Speaker 2: That, right, and sometimes this went on for days at

60
00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:26,840
Speaker 2: a time. So there were all kinds of you know,

61
00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:29,920
Speaker 2: hotel arrangements, there were you know items bought. You know,

62
00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:32,000
Speaker 2: we've heard so much about the baby oil. We get it,

63
00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:34,559
Speaker 2: but still, like if you've seen any of the photographs,

64
00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:36,880
Speaker 2: they needed the baby oil, they needed the drugs, They

65
00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:39,760
Speaker 2: needed the hotel. They needed security to be there, They

66
00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:43,040
Speaker 2: needed staff to come in after the freak offs days

67
00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:46,120
Speaker 2: later to clean the clean the hotel rooms. Like that

68
00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:49,160
Speaker 2: was an organized machine or was it?

69
00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:51,360
Speaker 4: The jury's going to decide that. I guess that's not

70
00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:54,400
Speaker 4: really for us to decide, right, Yeah. She also cited

71
00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:59,000
Speaker 4: Ventura's Cassie, Remember Cassie. She also cited Cassie's claim that

72
00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:01,480
Speaker 4: did he force her to stay in a hotel for

73
00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:04,560
Speaker 4: a week after an assault and called it kidnapping, and

74
00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:07,840
Speaker 4: then also noted Capricorn Clark's testimony about being locked in

75
00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:10,640
Speaker 4: that building with the light detector test. Remember that, so

76
00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:13,760
Speaker 4: remind us of that again. So Capricorn Clark, she worked

77
00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:16,960
Speaker 4: for Diddy and he accused her of stealing some jewelry

78
00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:21,359
Speaker 4: if I remember correctly correct, And he forced her to

79
00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:24,560
Speaker 4: be in this warehouse for days with armed you know,

80
00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:28,400
Speaker 4: there was like a bodyguard like prohibiting her from leaving,

81
00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:30,240
Speaker 4: and she had to get a light detector test for

82
00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:31,840
Speaker 4: like three or four days. I can't remember the exact

83
00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:33,320
Speaker 4: amount of days. Was it three days?

84
00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:34,080
Speaker 3: It was three days?

85
00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:37,120
Speaker 2: And can you imagine you have a boss who now

86
00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:39,480
Speaker 2: has accused you of something, and you know, maybe if

87
00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:41,880
Speaker 2: you've been accused of stealing, you would maybe get fired.

88
00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:44,120
Speaker 2: But in this case, Diddy decides to have his security

89
00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:48,039
Speaker 2: and himself take her to a warehouse allegedly and lock

90
00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:50,080
Speaker 2: her up to a light detector test where she was

91
00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:53,000
Speaker 2: subjected to them time and time again. Do you know

92
00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:56,400
Speaker 2: how scary and insane that would be? Just think about that.

93
00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:59,800
Speaker 4: I mean, I if that happened to me, I'd be like, okay,

94
00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:03,279
Speaker 4: of course, but she was held captive.

95
00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:06,119
Speaker 2: And also keep in mind, we also know that Diddy

96
00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:09,520
Speaker 2: allegedly had many guns, and a lot of these things

97
00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:13,200
Speaker 2: were happening with guns in mind. So Cassie Ventura, his

98
00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:15,839
Speaker 2: ex girlfriend, claimed that as well. Is that part of

99
00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:18,120
Speaker 2: the reason that she couldn't leave, she didn't feel as

100
00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:21,640
Speaker 2: though she could is because he was a dangerous, be violent.

101
00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:25,400
Speaker 2: We've seen the video where he was obviously very violent.

102
00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:28,280
Speaker 2: That was probably just the tip of the iceberg, and

103
00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:29,080
Speaker 2: he was armed.

104
00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:33,440
Speaker 4: That goes to bribery. So one another predicate act is

105
00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:38,400
Speaker 4: this bribery allegation in twenty sixteen at the hotel where

106
00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:42,760
Speaker 4: Diddy was seen in surveillance footage physically assaulting Cassie, that

107
00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:46,240
Speaker 4: video that's been widely circulated, while he later paid like

108
00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:49,120
Speaker 4: a total of one hundred thousand dollars to hotel staffers

109
00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:52,200
Speaker 4: to keep it quiet and to delete the footage. Right, Yeah,

110
00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:53,120
Speaker 4: so that's bribery.

111
00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:55,960
Speaker 5: And then I just want to say on that, I

112
00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:59,440
Speaker 5: feel like, so there are seven predicate acts.

113
00:05:59,520 --> 00:05:59,920
Speaker 6: I believe it.

114
00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:02,440
Speaker 5: I know we'll continue going through those. Yeah, but I

115
00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:05,520
Speaker 5: have to say that bribery one seems like one would

116
00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:09,560
Speaker 5: be an absolute slam dunk. We have all seen the

117
00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:13,440
Speaker 5: footage of Cassie being beaten by Ditty. He has apologized

118
00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:17,120
Speaker 5: so with holding a towel exactly, that's the video her

119
00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:19,839
Speaker 5: up and kicking her in the face. And then also

120
00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:22,320
Speaker 5: the people who took the bribes, you know, they were

121
00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:25,200
Speaker 5: granted immunity, I believe, but they confirmed that, so I

122
00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:29,120
Speaker 5: feel like they're halfway there to the rico charge exactly.

123
00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:31,720
Speaker 2: And the security guard that did not take the bribe,

124
00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:35,760
Speaker 2: he said specifically that he you know's he witnessed it,

125
00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:39,039
Speaker 2: he knew that he was being he was being very violent,

126
00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:42,440
Speaker 2: and you know that she was basically kind of being

127
00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:44,680
Speaker 2: held captive in so many ways, Like what was she

128
00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:48,200
Speaker 2: supposed to do in that situation? She was trying to leave,

129
00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:50,840
Speaker 2: she was beaten to the ground and then dragged by

130
00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:53,960
Speaker 2: her hair back to the situation. If that happens once

131
00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:56,560
Speaker 2: to a normal human being, you're a little afraid to

132
00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:58,880
Speaker 2: do it twice. We also know that there have been

133
00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:03,280
Speaker 2: report after report after report and photograph proof of many

134
00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:08,040
Speaker 2: times that he was abusing his ex girlfriends, certainly Cassie Ventura.

135
00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:12,920
Speaker 4: Hmmm. While he's also being accused of witness tampering and obstruction.

136
00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:17,160
Speaker 4: Diddy tried to silence witnesses after Cassie's twenty twenty three

137
00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:21,680
Speaker 4: lawsuit and was denied bail three times for allegedly obstructing

138
00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:25,280
Speaker 4: that investigation. Another one is the transportation, and we've talked

139
00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:28,120
Speaker 4: about this one quite a bit, right, the transportation to

140
00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:31,640
Speaker 4: engage in prostitution. He paid for people to travel for

141
00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:34,280
Speaker 4: sex with Cassie. So those are some and then of

142
00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:36,520
Speaker 4: course the sex trafficking. So those are some of the

143
00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:39,720
Speaker 4: you know, the summary of what the prosecution outlined to

144
00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:43,720
Speaker 4: the jury today and their closing arguments. Wow, I listen,

145
00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:46,600
Speaker 4: they only need two, but the jury has to unanimously

146
00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:49,400
Speaker 4: agree on it. If there's just one juror, that's like, eh,

147
00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:52,040
Speaker 4: I don't think they proved any of them. And that

148
00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:54,880
Speaker 4: juror member has like a strong head like think of

149
00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:58,080
Speaker 4: like twelve angry men, right, Oh, yes, critical thinking. If

150
00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:01,880
Speaker 4: there's one juror that's like, no, I don't buy this evidence.

151
00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:05,280
Speaker 4: I didn't think this witness was trustworthy or you know, whatever,

152
00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:08,600
Speaker 4: whatever their argument might be, then he's not going to

153
00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:09,480
Speaker 4: be convicted.

154
00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:12,120
Speaker 2: And if he's not convicted, is it possible for there

155
00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:14,760
Speaker 2: to be a hung jury or it's just done?

156
00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:16,120
Speaker 3: Zoen over and he walks.

157
00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:18,240
Speaker 4: That's a good question. Maybe we should ask Jarrett when

158
00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:18,600
Speaker 4: he comes.

159
00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:22,160
Speaker 2: To Yeah, Jarrett Farantino, who's prosecuted so many major crimes,

160
00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:26,720
Speaker 2: specifically in Philadelphia, but he really does know the racket here.

161
00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:27,640
Speaker 3: Because I'm just curious.

162
00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:30,200
Speaker 2: I know there's a big difference between federal charges and

163
00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:33,160
Speaker 2: state charges, and I guess that's the sophie's choice we're

164
00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:35,880
Speaker 2: in right now. Right if we've seen that Diddy was

165
00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:39,880
Speaker 2: clearly violent and he was very abusive to the women

166
00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:42,320
Speaker 2: in his world, but again, he's not being brought up

167
00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:45,640
Speaker 2: on domestic violence charges by the state. He's being brought

168
00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:48,360
Speaker 2: up on something much larger. And you know, some of

169
00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:51,520
Speaker 2: the chatter is that maybe he was overcharged, and if

170
00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:53,360
Speaker 2: that's the case, does he just walk?

171
00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:56,920
Speaker 5: Oh man, we want to hear your thoughts eighted eight

172
00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:59,560
Speaker 5: three to one crime. Which way are you going in

173
00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:03,120
Speaker 5: this mo or? You can always hit us on the

174
00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:05,040
Speaker 5: talkbacks on the iHeartRadio app.

175
00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:06,520
Speaker 6: You just go to the app.

176
00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:08,760
Speaker 5: And in the upper right hand corner you click on

177
00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:12,360
Speaker 5: that red microphone and leave us a message. But now

178
00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:15,600
Speaker 5: we're going to bring in who Stephanie mentioned, former homicide

179
00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:20,160
Speaker 5: prosecutor Jarrett Farentino. He has a veteran trial attorney. He's

180
00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:23,960
Speaker 5: handled some of Pennsylvania's most high profile murder cases and

181
00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:27,600
Speaker 5: now he's a national legal analyst and a true crime expert,

182
00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:31,679
Speaker 5: co host of the YouTube series Primetime Crime, and he's

183
00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:33,880
Speaker 5: hosted the podcast True Crime Boss.

184
00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:35,760
Speaker 6: Thank you so much, Jared.

185
00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:40,040
Speaker 7: Jared Jed, Hello, it's good you know you three ride

186
00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:42,599
Speaker 7: is such a nice job of summarizing that case. I

187
00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:44,320
Speaker 7: don't think I have anything to say.

188
00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:47,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you can just pots from here on out, Jarrett.

189
00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:49,840
Speaker 2: We also have Katherine Park here today. So it is

190
00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:52,840
Speaker 2: a big, huge love fest here in the studio.

191
00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:54,360
Speaker 3: So so much more on this.

192
00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:56,839
Speaker 4: To Cod Jared, we had a question. We had a

193
00:09:56,920 --> 00:10:00,040
Speaker 4: question about is it possible in a federal try I

194
00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:04,360
Speaker 4: like such as this, that there could be a hung jury.

195
00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:06,800
Speaker 7: Yes, there could be a hung jury if they don't

196
00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:11,520
Speaker 7: reach unanimous decision either way. So it is entirely possible.

197
00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:14,920
Speaker 7: But one thing you said, I think, all of over

198
00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:18,640
Speaker 7: four hours of what a powerful closing argument you were

199
00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:22,840
Speaker 7: talking about that bribery. And Christy Slovic she took that

200
00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:26,200
Speaker 7: bribery and she used that as a great example of

201
00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:30,520
Speaker 7: Ditty's intent and how it fed into the larger operation

202
00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:33,280
Speaker 7: of the enterprise. She said they paid Eddie Perez one

203
00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:36,280
Speaker 7: hundred thousand. The defense says this was the PR move.

204
00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:38,679
Speaker 7: They didn't want the domestic violence to come out. All

205
00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:41,040
Speaker 7: the while they point out that Ditty was talking about

206
00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:44,319
Speaker 7: there won't be a police report, don't spend the money

207
00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:48,720
Speaker 7: too fast so the police don't find out, And those

208
00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:53,560
Speaker 7: things were showing this consciousness of knowing that police could

209
00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:56,920
Speaker 7: become involved. And this wasn't a PR move. It's like the.

210
00:10:57,040 --> 00:10:59,079
Speaker 4: Self aware that what he did was wrong.

211
00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:02,800
Speaker 7: Yeah, he actually put the money through a counting machine

212
00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:05,920
Speaker 7: like a scene out of Scarface and pays it off

213
00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:09,679
Speaker 7: and with the hopes of insulating himself from prosecution. That's bribery,

214
00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:13,920
Speaker 7: and that's using the enterprise. That's a great crystallization of

215
00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:17,600
Speaker 7: exactly what he's charged with, the predicative bribery and serving

216
00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:21,479
Speaker 7: the larger enterprise. I thought it was an awesome concrete example.

217
00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:24,280
Speaker 7: How do you walk away from that say that didn't happen.

218
00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:25,880
Speaker 7: I didn't see enough evidence of that.

219
00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:29,680
Speaker 4: It's power right, Well, so I think I think that one,

220
00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:33,120
Speaker 4: the bribery and the transportation to engage in prostitution are

221
00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:36,200
Speaker 4: the two predicate acts that I think the jury can

222
00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:38,520
Speaker 4: agree on. I mean, what do you guys think, what

223
00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:38,839
Speaker 4: are you.

224
00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:41,480
Speaker 3: For clarity for? You know, anyone who's not playing along

225
00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:42,319
Speaker 3: close enough?

226
00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:47,440
Speaker 2: You know, the escorts that were having sexual relationships with

227
00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:50,360
Speaker 2: Cassie Ventur and later we heard this from Jane his

228
00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:53,800
Speaker 2: other ex that was her pseudonym is Jane. The idea

229
00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:57,439
Speaker 2: is that they started taking escorts mail escorts in this case,

230
00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:01,199
Speaker 2: and taking them around the world, so these freak offs,

231
00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:04,120
Speaker 2: these hotel nights would happen with some you know air

232
00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:08,480
Speaker 2: quotes usual suspects and you know, look, that's transporting and

233
00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:11,520
Speaker 2: there is a lot of intent behind that. But will

234
00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:15,600
Speaker 2: the jury be expecting that transportation thing to be you know,

235
00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:17,439
Speaker 2: young girls in the dead of night.

236
00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:19,920
Speaker 4: That we're being do you think because they were men

237
00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:21,360
Speaker 4: may sports?

238
00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:22,560
Speaker 6: That's a fair point.

239
00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:25,679
Speaker 5: I think that we will let Jarrett think about that

240
00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:28,560
Speaker 5: after the break and give us his informed opinion idea,

241
00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:31,960
Speaker 5: because I need some help breaking this down. We're going

242
00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:35,079
Speaker 5: to be coming back and joined with Jarrett Farantino, as

243
00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:38,760
Speaker 5: I said, and talking about the prosecution's.

244
00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:40,080
Speaker 6: Case in Shawn did Comb's later.

245
00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:44,040
Speaker 5: It's Pride month and we have important cases to highlight.

246
00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:46,760
Speaker 5: Don't forget to call us eight at eight three one crime,

247
00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:48,760
Speaker 5: keep it here, True crime tonight.

248
00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:01,360
Speaker 3: So Jarrett, back to you.

249
00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:04,760
Speaker 2: So we're talking about, you know, this transportation piece of

250
00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:08,040
Speaker 2: the Ditty case because if you're just joining us everyone,

251
00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:11,400
Speaker 2: the prosecution had its closing arguments today in court. In

252
00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:14,880
Speaker 2: the Ditty case, he is facing potentially life behind bars,

253
00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:18,080
Speaker 2: but in reality, you know that seems to be a

254
00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:21,800
Speaker 2: moving target right now, pun intended. So yesterday we know

255
00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:24,880
Speaker 2: that some of the charges were not reduced but streamlined.

256
00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:29,360
Speaker 2: And Jarrett, you know this transportation charge or predicate.

257
00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:31,000
Speaker 3: You know, is that going to hold up.

258
00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:34,040
Speaker 7: Well, that's up to the jury, as we said, But

259
00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:37,560
Speaker 7: I do think I do think that Christy Slavic did

260
00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:41,160
Speaker 7: a great job. What she did today was she gave

261
00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:43,320
Speaker 7: a little bit of law and a lot of fact.

262
00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:46,440
Speaker 7: So she would set up the transportation of Cassie and

263
00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:51,080
Speaker 7: Jane under forced coercion, So they're being transported for a

264
00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:54,240
Speaker 7: commercial sex act. And she's saying, when you do that

265
00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:57,719
Speaker 7: and there's force and there's coercion and there's drugs to

266
00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:02,360
Speaker 7: induce that commercial sex act, violating the transportation for commercial

267
00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:06,520
Speaker 7: sexual purposes, It's almost like, how how do you look

268
00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:09,640
Speaker 7: at that and say the burden hasn't been met? And

269
00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:12,160
Speaker 7: the answer to the defense has been saying is well,

270
00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:16,000
Speaker 7: we say it was adults consenting, adults acting not in

271
00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:19,880
Speaker 7: a commercial sex capacity, but as a consensual sexual act.

272
00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:24,000
Speaker 7: I thought she did a great job. Every time she

273
00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:28,160
Speaker 7: would just lace her examples with what the defense was saying.

274
00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:32,440
Speaker 7: The defense says, this is domestic violence, not sex trafficking.

275
00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:36,160
Speaker 7: She said, no, it's violence with a purpose that serves

276
00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:40,479
Speaker 7: an enterprise. That's not just domestic violence, it's sex trafficking

277
00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:44,160
Speaker 7: and that's what that's the distinction with a tremendous difference,

278
00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:47,760
Speaker 7: and she did a great job of bringing that point

279
00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:48,760
Speaker 7: home to the jury.

280
00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:50,800
Speaker 3: I agree at us brawl.

281
00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:53,720
Speaker 2: It's so refreshing when you break things down, because sometimes

282
00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:55,840
Speaker 2: we get a little confused by a lot of this

283
00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:58,440
Speaker 2: back and forth. So thank you for breaking that down.

284
00:14:58,640 --> 00:14:58,800
Speaker 4: You know.

285
00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:01,080
Speaker 2: One of the other questions that I had was there

286
00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:04,760
Speaker 2: was this infamous you know beat down. You know, Cassie Ventura,

287
00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:09,960
Speaker 2: Diddy's ex allegedly allegedly allegedly was beaten pretty senselessly, and

288
00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:13,000
Speaker 2: therefore he didn't want anyone to find out and certainly

289
00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:16,080
Speaker 2: didn't want to get police involved, so he he basically

290
00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:20,280
Speaker 2: forced Cassie Ventura, his ex girlfriend, to recover at the

291
00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:24,000
Speaker 2: London Hotel in Los Angeles, which is a lovely, beautiful hotel,

292
00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:28,280
Speaker 2: not unless you're there to recover from injuries that you

293
00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:31,880
Speaker 2: sustained from your boyfriend, because he didn't really want anyone

294
00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:34,400
Speaker 2: to see her, and there was security there and allegedly

295
00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:37,320
Speaker 2: she couldn't leave against her will for a minimum of

296
00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:41,400
Speaker 2: seven days. I believe is that the transportation part of this.

297
00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:46,760
Speaker 7: Also, well, there's a kidnapping component to that, right, sompargument.

298
00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:50,440
Speaker 7: So that's really where that factored in. The transportation is

299
00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:54,840
Speaker 7: the actual transporting folks with vehicles right right state line,

300
00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:58,360
Speaker 7: so it's an actual transportation. Sometimes the federal laws say

301
00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:01,680
Speaker 7: exactly what they need sometimes, which is sometimes they're clear,

302
00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:06,240
Speaker 7: so it means it means transporting someone for commercial sex acts.

303
00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:10,200
Speaker 7: The keeping Cassie in the hotel against her will, there

304
00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:13,400
Speaker 7: were bodyguards at the door, things of that nature. That's

305
00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:16,680
Speaker 7: a lawful restraint typically in the state and kidnapping, So

306
00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:19,120
Speaker 7: that's what it is at the federal level. So it

307
00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:21,520
Speaker 7: serves both ends of those charges. Though it goes to

308
00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:23,160
Speaker 7: the course, it goes to force.

309
00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:26,120
Speaker 2: Well, how about it unlawful restraint. She's like literally being

310
00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:28,960
Speaker 2: shoved in a hotel room, whether his hotel or not.

311
00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:32,360
Speaker 2: She's still like recovering because she's been beaten up so badly.

312
00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:34,880
Speaker 4: I mean, when you say unlawful restraint, I don't know why,

313
00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:38,120
Speaker 4: but that combination of words really kind of solidifies it

314
00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:39,680
Speaker 4: for me. That's kidnapping.

315
00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:44,080
Speaker 7: Wow. You know, the defense is saying, look, he regretted

316
00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:46,040
Speaker 7: what happened, he wanted to get better. He put her

317
00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:48,800
Speaker 7: up in this nice hotel. I mean, come on, come on,

318
00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:51,200
Speaker 7: keeping her out of He was keeping her out of

319
00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:54,560
Speaker 7: the view of anybody who sees the results of the beating,

320
00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:56,840
Speaker 7: the melee he put upon her in that.

321
00:16:56,840 --> 00:17:01,480
Speaker 4: Video, because he's self aware that what he did was punishable.

322
00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:02,840
Speaker 3: Exactly, and it's a bad look.

323
00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:05,280
Speaker 2: And also we also know that it was a paying

324
00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:07,639
Speaker 2: off the optics for security to get rid of that

325
00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:11,320
Speaker 2: original videotape from that other hotel. Also, we happened to

326
00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:14,280
Speaker 2: know that he was carrying guns, et cetera. What happened

327
00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:16,879
Speaker 2: to this bond guy, there was a security guard there.

328
00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:20,160
Speaker 2: Also that Capricorn Clark when she was getting her lie

329
00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:23,879
Speaker 2: detector tests, that's a former assistant who was accused of

330
00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:26,880
Speaker 2: stealing jewelry that we were talking about in the last segment.

331
00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:29,080
Speaker 3: Remember she kind of was saying that he.

332
00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:32,000
Speaker 2: Would throw her in the East River if she was

333
00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:35,080
Speaker 2: in any way out of line. So not only is

334
00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:38,160
Speaker 2: she being taken to this weird warehouse, then she strapped

335
00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:40,600
Speaker 2: to a light detector test and asked to take multiple

336
00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:43,800
Speaker 2: detector tests, which is insane. And then on top of that,

337
00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:46,280
Speaker 2: he said, look, if you give me any trouble or

338
00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:49,320
Speaker 2: you talk to your former boss, Suge Knight, I'll toss

339
00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:52,040
Speaker 2: you in the East River. That to me seems like

340
00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:54,040
Speaker 2: it's got to fall into one of these predicates.

341
00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:57,160
Speaker 7: Well, well, who tossed bodies in the East River, who

342
00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:00,280
Speaker 7: takes people to warehouses? Who has lieutenants?

343
00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:01,560
Speaker 4: The Mafia, the Mob?

344
00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:02,080
Speaker 3: I know.

345
00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:06,920
Speaker 7: She did a great Christy Slavic did a great job

346
00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:10,399
Speaker 7: of painting puff Daddy as the godfather. She said he

347
00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:15,439
Speaker 7: had lieutenants, he has foot soldiers, he has king he

348
00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:18,840
Speaker 7: has a kingdom of loyal subjects. His mansions, I would

349
00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:22,119
Speaker 7: be saying, are as castles, his cars are his chariots.

350
00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:26,359
Speaker 7: It's just like, this is a corrupt organization that looks

351
00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:30,879
Speaker 7: like the Mafia. And we have Rico, which was invented

352
00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:32,960
Speaker 7: to get the Mafia, and it's now being used to

353
00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:33,440
Speaker 7: get Diddy.

354
00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:33,760
Speaker 3: Oh.

355
00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:37,679
Speaker 4: I have a question Jared about Rico. You've done a

356
00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:40,720
Speaker 4: lot of Mafia related trials, like you know in Pennsylvania's

357
00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:43,000
Speaker 4: it's right by Jersey, and you know, like you know,

358
00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:46,040
Speaker 4: I think of all being soprano. Can you tell us

359
00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:49,480
Speaker 4: about how the Mafia inspired this, this nineteen seventy two

360
00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:51,280
Speaker 4: Rico act and what does RICO stand for?

361
00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:54,159
Speaker 7: What happened? Now? I haven't personally done mob trials, but

362
00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:56,800
Speaker 7: I oh, I think it following mobri I have. But

363
00:18:57,119 --> 00:18:59,159
Speaker 7: let me just tell you. I'll admit I know people

364
00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:03,720
Speaker 7: that were in admits the mafia. So let's talk. Let's

365
00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:04,320
Speaker 7: break it down.

366
00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:10,159
Speaker 4: Are you there?

367
00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:13,400
Speaker 7: You go, yeah, no, I'm not. But here's how it worked.

368
00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:16,080
Speaker 7: You would have the five families in New York and

369
00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:19,440
Speaker 7: you have you have these bosses, you know, in back

370
00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:23,240
Speaker 7: in their houses making their foot soldiers carry out their bidding,

371
00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:26,320
Speaker 7: and it's five people deep. They whisper to one person,

372
00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:30,480
Speaker 7: go tell this person, and the only people being held

373
00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:34,680
Speaker 7: accountable was the slayer who was carrying out the directive

374
00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:38,440
Speaker 7: of the mob boss. Rico was created to get to

375
00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:41,800
Speaker 7: the top of the organization. It's like these foot soldiers

376
00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:44,240
Speaker 7: are carrying out the will of a boss. We can

377
00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:47,680
Speaker 7: reverse engineer this crime and get to the top. That's

378
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:50,480
Speaker 7: the theory on which it was created. It was created

379
00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:53,760
Speaker 7: in the seventies, but it was used, ironically for the

380
00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:57,320
Speaker 7: first time by Rudy Giuliani, currently facing federal charges.

381
00:19:58,000 --> 00:19:59,960
Speaker 4: Ironic so I mean he lost.

382
00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:04,000
Speaker 7: He successfully locked the top of the heads of the

383
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:07,400
Speaker 7: five families in New York using the Rico charge. That's

384
00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:10,160
Speaker 7: what he did, and that's what they're trying to do

385
00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:13,719
Speaker 7: in Diddy. It was expanded to corporations and street gangs

386
00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:17,040
Speaker 7: too eventually, but that's really the origin of.

387
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:21,280
Speaker 5: That interesting I have one more question, Jared. You've been

388
00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:24,520
Speaker 5: so helpful to help break these charges down. I'm curious

389
00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:28,840
Speaker 5: how you think the prosecution did with presenting the witness

390
00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:32,679
Speaker 5: tampering and obstruction. I know Combs had tried to silence

391
00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:36,720
Speaker 5: some witnesses after Cassie Ventura his Exes twenty twenty three

392
00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:41,000
Speaker 5: lawsuit and was denied bail three times for allegedly obstructing

393
00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:42,080
Speaker 5: the investigation.

394
00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:44,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, he was like that straight up.

395
00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,320
Speaker 2: He was allegedly, you know, bullying them a little bit

396
00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:49,840
Speaker 2: and trying to get two witnesses.

397
00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:51,359
Speaker 3: Is that accurate, Jarrett?

398
00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:55,320
Speaker 7: Yes? So the greatest So, the greatest affront to our

399
00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:59,960
Speaker 7: system is when you are charged and you're basically impacting

400
00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:02,560
Speaker 7: the ability to have a full and fair trial and

401
00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:06,080
Speaker 7: intimidating witnesses. It has a chilling effect on those witnesses.

402
00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:09,399
Speaker 7: It is a chilling effect on investigations going forward because

403
00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:13,520
Speaker 7: witnesses won't come forward. So he was denied bail because

404
00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:16,680
Speaker 7: when Cassie's lawsuit came out and there were whipers of

405
00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:19,680
Speaker 7: an investigation. He called Jane and he said to her,

406
00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:22,200
Speaker 7: I need your friendship and you won't have to worry

407
00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:23,960
Speaker 7: about anything. What does it mean? I need you to

408
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,159
Speaker 7: lie for me and I will pay you to do it.

409
00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:29,879
Speaker 7: And that's witness intimidation. That's well, it's a form of

410
00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:32,639
Speaker 7: bribery too, That's what he did. What does it tell you?

411
00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:36,800
Speaker 7: It tells you it's consciousness of guilt. He's saying I

412
00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:40,199
Speaker 7: did something wrong. I'm trying to bias a witness against me,

413
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:44,480
Speaker 7: and I'm interfering with the truth and this investigation. It's

414
00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:47,119
Speaker 7: frowned upon when you're trying to get bail, of course,

415
00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:50,920
Speaker 7: and as a prosecutor you love that because you say,

416
00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:53,199
Speaker 7: if these people are lying, what's he trying to pay

417
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:53,800
Speaker 7: them off for?

418
00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:57,760
Speaker 2: Exactly? Why is he going to that extra layer? And

419
00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:00,760
Speaker 2: you know, we always wondered about I think he was Gina.

420
00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:04,000
Speaker 2: There was that, you know, witness number three, who never

421
00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:09,040
Speaker 2: ever testified because you know, the suspicion was allegedly, allegedly

422
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:12,520
Speaker 2: allegedly that you know, somebody had gotten to her or

423
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:16,040
Speaker 2: maybe she was you know, petrified by the way for

424
00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:19,480
Speaker 2: very good reason. We're now seeing how about the fact

425
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:22,199
Speaker 2: that witnesses are coming forward and putting themselves in harm's

426
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:25,480
Speaker 2: way because this guy could potentially get off. Was there

427
00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:30,520
Speaker 2: any other ongoings about Gina specifically or the reasons why

428
00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:32,240
Speaker 2: she didn't appear in court.

429
00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:36,800
Speaker 7: It's been basically inferred that either she was so afraid

430
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:39,800
Speaker 7: based on what she'd seen in the past and what

431
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:42,560
Speaker 7: he was doing after the see. One of the things

432
00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:45,960
Speaker 7: about what this intimidation that's important is the defendant basically

433
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:49,439
Speaker 7: has to know the criminal charges or pending to interfere

434
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:52,320
Speaker 7: or tamper with the case. So when they do that,

435
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:55,439
Speaker 7: she may have become aware of what he was doing.

436
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,920
Speaker 7: He need not have gotten after her directly. Now there's

437
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:03,600
Speaker 7: some alligations that he has and some intimations that he has,

438
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:06,600
Speaker 7: but we don't know for sure. But also just the

439
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:09,800
Speaker 7: general what do they say, snitches get stitches.

440
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:12,399
Speaker 3: Es do get stitches. I'm from Long Island.

441
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:16,840
Speaker 7: That is accurate, right, And they're afraid. So that's what

442
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:19,800
Speaker 7: happens in these cases. You do have people people don't

443
00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:21,600
Speaker 7: want to be in a courtroom to begin with, let

444
00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:27,440
Speaker 7: alone staring down a more powerful billionaire, former boss, former lover,

445
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:31,560
Speaker 7: former abuser and tell all the bad things that happened

446
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,439
Speaker 7: to them, knowing full well the government may not be

447
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:35,560
Speaker 7: able to protect them fully.

448
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:38,280
Speaker 4: Well, stay with us. We're going to continue to follow

449
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:40,520
Speaker 4: this and when we come back, we're going to be

450
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,440
Speaker 4: doing some breaking news in the Idaho college murders. There's

451
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:45,720
Speaker 4: been some new information coming out from the Idaho court

452
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:49,199
Speaker 4: system about suspect Brian Coberger's strial, and later we're going

453
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:51,560
Speaker 4: to be taking time to highlight some important cases within

454
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:55,359
Speaker 4: the LGBTQ community. Keep it right here through Crime tonight.

455
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 2: And we have Jarrett Farantino with us. He's breaking down

456
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,520
Speaker 2: all things Diddy for us, all things did he.

457
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 5: I have a question actually about something that you had

458
00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:18,440
Speaker 5: mentioned last night, Jarrett, and I believe you throughout that

459
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:23,480
Speaker 5: the federal federal cases have a high nineties success rate

460
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:24,240
Speaker 5: of prosecution.

461
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:26,760
Speaker 3: Is that right? Yeah, that was very interesting to me too.

462
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:32,040
Speaker 7: So the word on the street and the nomenclature is

463
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,399
Speaker 7: basically they say the Feds have a ninety eight percent

464
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 7: conviction rate. Now that includes pleading cases out. It basically

465
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:41,600
Speaker 7: means they rarely lose. And it's that's a true statement.

466
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 5: Is that because they take they when they take a

467
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,280
Speaker 5: case and decide to go to trial or press charges.

468
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:53,120
Speaker 5: They feel like all of their ducks in a row.

469
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 5: I mean, I know that's that would be every prosecutor's goal,

470
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 5: but what makes.

471
00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:58,320
Speaker 6: That so high.

472
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,280
Speaker 7: The federal system differs from the state system because, first

473
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:04,720
Speaker 7: of all, you have the top investigators in the field.

474
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:08,919
Speaker 7: You're dealing with the FBI, DEAATS customs, so you have

475
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:15,280
Speaker 7: just great law enforcement, really experience attorneys as assistant US attorneys,

476
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:18,320
Speaker 7: and they have oftentimes the luxury of time to put

477
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:21,240
Speaker 7: their cases together. They don't bring a case unless they

478
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:24,679
Speaker 7: believe strongly. Oftentimes, as a state prosecutor, you're dealing in

479
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:28,240
Speaker 7: mass things will quickly. You're dealing with local law enforcement.

480
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:30,679
Speaker 7: You don't have the resources of the federal government, so

481
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 7: your cases aren't always as strong, not to say they

482
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 7: don't meet their burden or the thresholds to that you

483
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 7: have to achieve as you move through the system. Federal cases,

484
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 7: it's first class more often than not.

485
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 4: But you know, each the normal defendants, though, don't have

486
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:49,679
Speaker 4: ten to twenty million dollars to throw at ten defense

487
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:54,400
Speaker 4: attorneys though right, so, like did he isn't the normal defendant? Right?

488
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:54,560
Speaker 1: No?

489
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,719
Speaker 7: That may be the ultimate equalizer that may be right,

490
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 7: descent right.

491
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:03,639
Speaker 2: Kind of bothersome because unless you have the finances to

492
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 2: really stack the deck with the greatest legal team of

493
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 2: all time, you're in trouble. And especially if it's a

494
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 2: crime you didn't commit. Can you imagine you can't even

495
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,440
Speaker 2: really that's like my throw the dollars at it. It's

496
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 2: everybody's biggest fear, right. It's interesting because I feel like,

497
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:23,400
Speaker 2: you know, there's been such a divided the polls are changing, Jarrett.

498
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 2: You know, yesterday it seemed like Diddy was going to walk. Today,

499
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,199
Speaker 2: what little I've been able to glean, it seems like

500
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:32,119
Speaker 2: there's a little bit of a differing opinion now that

501
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 2: the prosecution has laid out their closing arguments. But again,

502
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 2: even the studio here is still pretty divided that you know,

503
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:41,440
Speaker 2: he may walk or you know, see some time. I

504
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:42,760
Speaker 2: guess there's really no way to know.

505
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 7: I think that when you have a case that's seven

506
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:50,119
Speaker 7: weeks long, there are days where you're focused on whatever

507
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:52,359
Speaker 7: was said that day or whatever was said over the

508
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 7: you lose focus on the big picture. I think Christy

509
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:58,399
Speaker 7: Slovic did a good job of tying it all together today,

510
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,040
Speaker 7: where you say to yourself, oh, you know, it's not

511
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 7: what I thought. It wasn't that particular day I focused on.

512
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 7: It really related back to the testimony of Cassie or

513
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 7: Jane or I think, and that's the whole point of

514
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:12,920
Speaker 7: closing arguments. And I think that's why today I think

515
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 7: you're going to see people go back the other way.

516
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:17,679
Speaker 2: You know, Can I ask you one quick question? It

517
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,200
Speaker 2: always has bothered me. So when did he got arrested?

518
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 2: And again, like you know, the raids happened. We all

519
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,479
Speaker 2: saw that on camera real time. You know, it seemed

520
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:29,639
Speaker 2: like a military operation, both in bel Air and his

521
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 2: Miami location. And then he was in New York and

522
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:35,439
Speaker 2: essentially turned himself in, right, he turned himself into the

523
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:39,359
Speaker 2: Feds in the hotel. I always wondered why, like he

524
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 2: has all these unlimited resources. When he gave his apology

525
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,800
Speaker 2: video to Cassie Ventura, when that tape you know, was

526
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,359
Speaker 2: released and leaked, you know, it seemed as though he

527
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 2: was I don't know in my head he was in Bali,

528
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 2: I don't know where he was, but at that point

529
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:56,200
Speaker 2: he seemed like pretty like a cool cucumber turning himself in.

530
00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 2: My gut on it was, which again matters for nothing

531
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 2: is that he was pretty okay with it and felt

532
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:04,640
Speaker 2: like it would be a short lived stint, if at all,

533
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:08,440
Speaker 2: Does that resonate at all, because maybe that was accurate.

534
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 2: If it in fact gets off, it was a terrible

535
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 2: few months for Diddy, But you know at the end

536
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 2: of the day he'll be back doing his old thing again.

537
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 2: Or or is that completely how it normally happens. When

538
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:22,639
Speaker 2: it's the FEDS, you turn yourself in and I guess

539
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 2: that's not up for conversation, right.

540
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 7: Well, first of all, you'd be hard pressed for Diddy

541
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:29,480
Speaker 7: to find anywhere in the world where he can hide.

542
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:32,200
Speaker 7: Everybody knows who he is, so I don't know that

543
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 7: that was an otion trend. The other thing is the

544
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 7: government can apply a tremendous amount of pressure. It could

545
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 7: be calling his lawyers saying if he doesn't come in

546
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,480
Speaker 7: within forty eight hours, we're indicting his son for this,

547
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 7: his daughter for this. People around him were taking the house.

548
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 7: We're doing where they really start to apply the cap pressure.

549
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, Remember they were handcuffed, right, So.

550
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 7: And I'm not suggesting that he did anything wrong. I'm

551
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 7: only saying that there could be things going beyond behind

552
00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:00,959
Speaker 7: the scenes that compel his appearance, But the reality is

553
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 7: there's no word he could hide, and at that point

554
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 7: he's trying to control as much as this as he

555
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 7: can and hold his head high and turn himself in.

556
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 7: But it's pretty common because you would rather someone surrender

557
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 7: themselves said they have to go get them by force

558
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 7: and risk an agent being hurt or the defendant or

559
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 7: members of their family being hurt. So when you can

560
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 7: negotiate that, you try to negotiate it.

561
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 3: Totally fair. Thank you for that answer.

562
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 6: So interesting.

563
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 5: How did you get into the law and why the

564
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 5: prosecution side of things.

565
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 7: Well, I got into the laws as a young man.

566
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 7: I was a kid. I took care of my uncle,

567
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 7: who was a paraplegic. I was a little boy, and

568
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 7: I loved advocating for him. And it had nothing to

569
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:43,960
Speaker 7: do with law other than I just liked fighting for

570
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 7: people that couldn't fight for themselves, And as I grew up,

571
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 7: I just thought my God to be given the opportunity

572
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 7: to fight for victims. That was my dream for a while,

573
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:54,719
Speaker 7: and I did it for twenty years. That's how I

574
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 7: did it. But taking care of my uncle was the

575
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 7: first experience of just kind of helping people that couldn't

576
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 7: do it everything for themselves, you know, and that's kind

577
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 7: of where I found that same inspiration and prosecution.

578
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 3: Oh that's so nice. I a little choked up.

579
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 4: Are because you're doing it for like the right reasons.

580
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 4: You're being an advocate like you were for your uncle.

581
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 7: Guarded that way, Yeah, stuarded that way.

582
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, that runs out eventually.

583
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 4: The motivation is important. I think that's amazing. I think

584
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 4: that's really amazing. Can I ask you another personal question? Personal?

585
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 3: But what do you think?

586
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 4: This isn't really personal at all?

587
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 6: What you should have seen the questions earlier?

588
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 2: Jared?

589
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 3: Right right?

590
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 4: What are what are some I'm sorry I lost no,

591
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 4: I completely lost my train. I thought I can't remember

592
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 4: what I was going to sadd what I was going

593
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 4: to ask somebody else?

594
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 2: Go.

595
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 3: Let's talk about the legal team that he has put there.

596
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 2: He is a pretty dynamic team, right, an expensive one

597
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 2: at the bare minimum.

598
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 7: I mean, these these folks are the top of the

599
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 7: food chain right now, you know, these are these are

600
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,719
Speaker 7: the lawyers for all the big cases coming out. And

601
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 7: when you put together Mark and Philio and Tenny Geragos,

602
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 7: I mean they're the big time. You know, Tenny is

603
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 7: Mark Garrigos, who I've done a few shows where Mark's

604
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 7: on the panel, but we're talking Mendes Brothers and all

605
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 7: the big cases that he's had. It's in her blood,

606
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 7: you know. So uh and Mark and Philios. He's representing

607
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 7: Luigi man Gione. He was on the Rainier case. So

608
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:29,920
Speaker 7: this is these are folks that when you're in a

609
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 7: case that's high profile, it adds a whole nother component

610
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 7: to your preparation, to the management of the case. These

611
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:40,239
Speaker 7: are folks that aren't strangers to that. Tenny grew up

612
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 7: in that world, and Philio and his wife and they're

613
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 7: part of this. Now. You know, you get under those

614
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 7: lights and in that ring, things change. You know, things change,

615
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 7: and you have to have lawyers that can deal with

616
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 7: that and can manage all of the components of the case.

617
00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 7: And they're very good lawyers. Their backgrounds there are phenomenal too.

618
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 7: They're no slouches. I mean, these are lawyers that go

619
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 7: to top tier law schools. They clerk for federal judges.

620
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 7: They have prosecutorial experience. Like, there are no strangers to that.

621
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 7: Corporate they know they don't want someone right, they know

622
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 7: they know the major leagues and that's where they're at.

623
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 3: And are there any trials?

624
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 4: Are there any trials that you're familiar with that are

625
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:21,760
Speaker 4: really like kind of similar to Ditty's.

626
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 7: I would say the closest to Ditty's was like probably

627
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 7: a mob case where you have a large Yeah, I

628
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 7: would say, because you have a person at the top

629
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 7: that The thing that's odd about Ditty's when you compare

630
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 7: it to the mob is he's sitting alone in that courtroom.

631
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 7: He doesn't have soldiers and lieutenants in there next to

632
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:44,280
Speaker 7: him as defendants. But the most akin to his case

633
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 7: of this, you have a large, wealthy operation run by

634
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 7: one leader and then there's this chain of command and

635
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 7: that's what the prosecutors has done. So I would say

636
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 7: it's most akin to that.

637
00:32:56,400 --> 00:33:00,480
Speaker 4: Wow. Yeah, So like Diddy's a real mafia boss, basic world.

638
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 7: There's he is, he's accused of being and he appears.

639
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 3: To be right, Yes he does. Does he have made don.

640
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 4: Are his made men? The bodyguards?

641
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 3: That are?

642
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 1: You know what I mean?

643
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 7: Like, Well, that's that's kind of what they tried to

644
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:17,479
Speaker 7: that's what they try to create, you know. But and

645
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 7: the other thing is I thought that Christy did a

646
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 7: really good job of creating that constant fhere, Like the

647
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 7: one thing about being in that mob life is you

648
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 7: live under fear. Here's capricorn. Clark is an employee one minute,

649
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 7: next thing you know, she's locked up taking a lie

650
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 7: detector test. Cassie is a beloved girlfriend. She's she essentially

651
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 7: has an anvil of violence hanging over her head if

652
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:43,480
Speaker 7: she doesn't engage in the hotel nights and the freak

653
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 7: ops Like, none of this sounds like anybody was having

654
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 7: a good time. It sounds like like living in hell.

655
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, all right, another question, This one's a hard one.

656
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 4: You're you're a federal prosecutor, you're a United States attorney?

657
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 4: Do you take this case?

658
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 3: Well, that's a good quest question.

659
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 7: Yeah, And I'll tell you what's special about the group

660
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 7: of US attorneys that took this I think it's not

661
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 7: lost on me that it's the team of women prosecuting him.

662
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 2: Women's hatter.

663
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,319
Speaker 7: And I'll tell you what. And they're ages. They grew

664
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 7: up when Diddy was making hits. You know, they know

665
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:22,880
Speaker 7: who Diddy is. And these are professional women with extensive

666
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 7: backgrounds in prosecuting sex crimes. And that is a special

667
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 7: breed of prosecutor. They are routinely exposed to horrible crimes.

668
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 7: I'm sure they're raising their own families and going home

669
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:37,319
Speaker 7: at night. They're tough, and they're exactly the team you

670
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:39,919
Speaker 7: want to prosecute. All the money in the world isn't

671
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:41,320
Speaker 7: going to scare these ladies.

672
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:45,680
Speaker 5: And that's exactly right, well said. Thank you so much

673
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:50,240
Speaker 5: for joining us, Jared Farantino. Everybody, Jared Tarantino are always

674
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:54,280
Speaker 5: so great. Everybody tune into his YouTube series Primetime Crime

675
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 5: and his podcast True Crime Boss wherever you get your podcasts.

676
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,760
Speaker 2: It's always such a joy when he's here because really

677
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 2: breaks it down.

678
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:03,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, he makes it so easy, you understand. So this

679
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:07,800
Speaker 4: really complex, you know, legal system that we're we're fighting

680
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 4: and battling with all the time, he makes it just

681
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 4: so digestible.

682
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 2: It really is so true. And you know, listen, these

683
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:15,759
Speaker 2: charges in the Ditty case. It's significant because even just

684
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,400
Speaker 2: last week we saw the significance of that in the

685
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:22,120
Speaker 2: Karen Reid trial and the charges and the jury instruction

686
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 2: and how they have to interpret the information before giving

687
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:29,720
Speaker 2: their their verdict, if you will. So it's really important stuff.

688
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:32,239
Speaker 2: And I think it's incredible that we get to unpack it.

689
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 2: You know, he had mentioned this extraordinary legal team that

690
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 2: did he has and then also the prosecution side, and look,

691
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 2: he's right, you know, the sex trafficking you know is

692
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:44,719
Speaker 2: really for example, one of the main lawyers on the

693
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 2: prosecution side. She also was the Gilaane Maxwell, you know,

694
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:52,880
Speaker 2: prosecutor and brought justice there as well. There's obviously a

695
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:55,959
Speaker 2: lot of similarities sometimes being brought up between the Ditty

696
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:59,920
Speaker 2: trial and the Epstein trial. So you know, all the

697
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:04,920
Speaker 2: h Ditty's team is millions and millions of dollars worth potentially, you.

698
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:07,719
Speaker 3: Know, the prosecution they don't get that same pay. Right.

699
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 2: They're doing this in a lot of ways because they

700
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:12,720
Speaker 2: believe in putting the bad guy behind bars and working

701
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:15,840
Speaker 2: for us the people and keeping us safe. So a

702
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,879
Speaker 2: we're very grateful for all sides for doing such an

703
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:19,840
Speaker 2: extraordinary job.

704
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:22,000
Speaker 3: And you know, I'm just really curious how it's all

705
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 3: going to play out.

706
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:24,359
Speaker 2: We want to hear from you eight eight eight three

707
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 2: to one crime Will Diddy walk? I guess that's the

708
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:28,800
Speaker 2: question of the moment.

709
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 5: Cor It sure is well speaking of high profile cases

710
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:37,759
Speaker 5: with tons of cash behind them, Justin Baldoni is not

711
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:42,400
Speaker 5: moving forward with submitting an amended claim against Blake Lively

712
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,800
Speaker 5: and Ryan Reynolds amid their legal battle over the movie

713
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:49,600
Speaker 5: It Ends with Us. So this started back in late

714
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:53,280
Speaker 5: twenty twenty four. Blake Lively, the actress, filed a complaint

715
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 5: against Justin Baldoni, her co star and director, and she

716
00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 5: accused him of sexual harassment and creating a toxic work

717
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:02,440
Speaker 5: and VI during filming the movie It Ends with Us.

718
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 5: She also alleged Baldonian his team orchestrated a smear campaign

719
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:10,640
Speaker 5: against her. So Baldoni then denied the allegations filed a

720
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 5: counter suit, but that has now been dismissed.

721
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's crazy because he's so hot about it. Well,

722
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 2: it's also a lot of money. Think about it. So

723
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:22,239
Speaker 2: Justin Baldoni is just you know, a director and a man, right,

724
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 2: He's not a man that as far as we know

725
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:28,080
Speaker 2: that is from like crazy amounts of affluence. But he

726
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:31,520
Speaker 2: has a partner and that partner is Wayfarer, and they

727
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 2: apparently have you know, pretty deep pockets, you know, for

728
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:37,120
Speaker 2: all of their hard work. So I think that partnership

729
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 2: was really funding this this legal battle. And think about it,

730
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 2: this has been going on for a while. You're dealing

731
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:47,920
Speaker 2: with Blake Lively, you know, by proxy Ryan Reynolds, you know,

732
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:50,920
Speaker 2: the very famous movie star, and they've been dumping some

733
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:53,760
Speaker 2: cash into it. If he didn't withdraw at this point,

734
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:56,239
Speaker 2: it's very possible that Baldoni could have been on the

735
00:37:56,239 --> 00:37:59,440
Speaker 2: hook for the appeals process. He could have been on

736
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:03,480
Speaker 2: the holl fees, her legal fees. I can't even imagine

737
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 2: the amount of money that this was the countersuit, right,

738
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 2: that was the countersuit. So frankly, Justin still has to

739
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 2: face deposition and such for this upcoming lawsuit that is

740
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:17,000
Speaker 2: now going to be in March twenty twenty six. That

741
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 2: was set that goes back to Blake Lively's original complaint

742
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:24,879
Speaker 2: against him. So like, it's not over, but he has

743
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 2: withdrawn his countersuit.

744
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 4: I foresee a settlement.

745
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:31,480
Speaker 2: They better settle, It's not Depositions are an all expensive.

746
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:32,799
Speaker 4: I just can't imagine.

747
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think they're going to settle.

748
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 2: I think you're right about that, because look, next thing,

749
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:39,440
Speaker 2: you know, this could turn into the new version of

750
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:42,879
Speaker 2: Amber versus Johnny, right, the Johnny.

751
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 3: Trial, the Amber Herd trial. Nobody won in that.

752
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:48,480
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess technically Johnny dep did, but Yeah,

753
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:51,360
Speaker 2: enough about that. Listen, stay with us because we have

754
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 2: Catherine Park, director and executive producer who's going to give

755
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,840
Speaker 2: us all the behind the scenes on the documentaries she's making.

756
00:38:58,080 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 2: More on that to come, because we also have some

757
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:02,960
Speaker 2: headlines call us eight at eight to three, one Crime,

758
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 2: True Crime Tonight, talking true crime all the time. The

759
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 2: documentaries and podcasts, you know, they sometimes inspire each other

760
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:24,880
Speaker 2: but are also very different. So Courtney and I made

761
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:29,319
Speaker 2: the Idaho Massacre podcast and then I revolved that that's

762
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 2: you sure were That's right. And we've made several podcasts

763
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:36,880
Speaker 2: with Body, also completely separately. So and Body, who also

764
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 2: was you know, the star of the Netflix documentary donep

765
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:43,319
Speaker 2: with Cats, knows a thing or two about how this

766
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:45,760
Speaker 2: is done right and knows a thing or two about

767
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:48,719
Speaker 2: how important it is to handle with care right. So

768
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 2: a director of a documentary sort of takes the spirit

769
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 2: of things and then puts their own real spin on

770
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 2: it and really does their own deep dive.

771
00:39:57,200 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 3: And Catherine Park is here with us in the studio.

772
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 2: He's directed so many incredible projects on Netflix. Will know

773
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 2: the Dahmer case, the Gacy case. She also did our

774
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 2: Pie County Murders, which aired on Peacock and then now

775
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:14,719
Speaker 2: is doing the Idaho student murders and it's really an

776
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:17,839
Speaker 2: extraordinary case. So first and foremost, we're so happy you're here.

777
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:19,640
Speaker 8: Oh, thank you, thank you for having me.

778
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:22,720
Speaker 3: We got the real deal in the house.

779
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:24,759
Speaker 2: So yeah, at some point we kind of have to

780
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:27,279
Speaker 2: pass the baton to you because again, we all made

781
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:30,360
Speaker 2: the podcast, and then we want sort of fresh eyes

782
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:32,920
Speaker 2: on it because you know, we all have our opinions

783
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:36,000
Speaker 2: and that's pretty obvious based on the podcast, but we

784
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:38,319
Speaker 2: want you to be able to have sort of a

785
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 2: fresh look at all of the evidence, all of the research,

786
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 2: and not be kind of swayed by anything. And I

787
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:46,719
Speaker 2: think that's why you're so special at what you do

788
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:50,160
Speaker 2: is a You're so kind and smart and well mannered

789
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:53,719
Speaker 2: and gracious and so victim forward. That's really kind of

790
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:55,560
Speaker 2: the name of the game, I think for all of us.

791
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:57,400
Speaker 2: But I think why you know, it was love at

792
00:40:57,400 --> 00:40:59,440
Speaker 2: first sight. When Courtney and I first met you, we

793
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 2: were like, and it's Catherine, would do you not agree?

794
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:06,120
Speaker 6: Can I say something?

795
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:09,240
Speaker 5: So after we had first met, and I do remember

796
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:12,640
Speaker 5: it so well, I went and that night I was

797
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 5: up so late watching both Dahmer and Gayy. It was

798
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:21,520
Speaker 5: a long late night, but I remember and Gaysey. All

799
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:25,040
Speaker 5: the stuff you do is unimpeachably beautiful. But your gay

800
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:28,680
Speaker 5: Sy doc I mean I can literally remember every sort

801
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 5: of interview set up and there was one in a

802
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 5: diner and just I don't know. You have such a

803
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:37,720
Speaker 5: beautiful way of bringing the place and the person together

804
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 5: and really helping the viewer get a vibe for just

805
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:43,280
Speaker 5: the whole atmosphere of the world.

806
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:45,520
Speaker 2: Do you remember in the job Well, I'm telling you

807
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:48,640
Speaker 2: the director, do you put in the Gaycy documentary on Netflix?

808
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 2: They had that scary brown hallway where like it was

809
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:53,120
Speaker 2: just like this hallway shot.

810
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 8: Well, that was the real Gayy hallway, And one of

811
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:03,720
Speaker 8: the ideas that we had was to animate the real

812
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 8: archival material so that you would feel as if you

813
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:14,400
Speaker 8: were walking down the hall towards Gacy's bedroom, which was

814
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:15,920
Speaker 8: slightly adjills.

815
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 4: I don't want to think about it.

816
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:19,920
Speaker 2: It was so scary and we never saw what happened

817
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:22,600
Speaker 2: in the bedroom because you're so classy about that or

818
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:26,320
Speaker 2: not gratuitous, right, which is very very important and probably

819
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:27,680
Speaker 2: your your special touch.

820
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:31,000
Speaker 8: Well, I think I think anybody who knows me knows

821
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 8: that I. You know, true crime is always you know,

822
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:40,960
Speaker 8: there are recreations, there are the interview looks, there's verite,

823
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:46,440
Speaker 8: and different shows have different styles depending on either access

824
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 8: or the the how what's organic to the story, like.

825
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:54,600
Speaker 3: What's the truth of it? Right? What's authentic to it?

826
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:55,120
Speaker 5: Right?

827
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:59,479
Speaker 8: So with Gacy, it's a completely different show because you're

828
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:03,800
Speaker 8: dealing with archival material and so you're not going to

829
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 8: have that kind of verite that we had in Pike County.

830
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 3: You did such a good job on Pike County.

831
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:15,080
Speaker 8: Thank you. But you know, so it's a show like Gaycy.

832
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 8: Conversations with a Killer John Wayne Gacy and Dahmer are

833
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:23,719
Speaker 8: both really high production value interview looks, and part of

834
00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:28,080
Speaker 8: that was really important, as all true crime, is to

835
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 8: give a nod in the interview look to what is

836
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:34,400
Speaker 8: organic to the story?

837
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 6: Right? And you really do do that brilliantly.

838
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:39,719
Speaker 5: So a lot of people know, no, they like or

839
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:42,720
Speaker 5: don't like certain documentaries, but a lot of the words

840
00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:44,480
Speaker 5: you were using, I don't know that people.

841
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 3: Are aware of how would you describe There's a couple

842
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:48,840
Speaker 3: of things, yes.

843
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:53,279
Speaker 8: Right, So for example, in Conversations with a Killer that

844
00:43:53,360 --> 00:44:00,279
Speaker 8: took place in the nineteen eighties, right, So, and was

845
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:03,719
Speaker 8: a very public figure and the case was was very

846
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:07,799
Speaker 8: well documented and shot and the police were followed, so

847
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 8: we used we take all of that, all of that

848
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:15,279
Speaker 8: footage that's quote unquote old, but we make it as

849
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:18,440
Speaker 8: though you are living in it right now.

850
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:19,160
Speaker 3: That's right.

851
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:21,479
Speaker 2: That's such a good explanation because we use that word

852
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:24,480
Speaker 2: a lot in the doc world, they call it archival.

853
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:26,399
Speaker 3: We use it on our podcast as well.

854
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:29,919
Speaker 2: So even like news footage things like that that kind

855
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:32,560
Speaker 2: of bring you to the place. And you know, that

856
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:35,080
Speaker 2: is a really big part of the richness to it

857
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:36,720
Speaker 2: because it makes you feel very present.

858
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:40,480
Speaker 8: Yeah, and it's and it's also really important to have

859
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:44,480
Speaker 8: editors who can work with that kind of material to

860
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:51,799
Speaker 8: not make it seem past that you're actually the modern eighties, right.

861
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:53,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's so true.

862
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 2: And also you brought up you know, the John Wayne

863
00:44:56,640 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 2: Gacy doc, the Dahmer doc. That is the one I

864
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:02,759
Speaker 2: honestly think it is so scary to me, that's the

865
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 2: scariest case that's ever happened. And we won't digress on

866
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:10,360
Speaker 2: that too much. But again, to take such dark material

867
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:14,719
Speaker 2: and make it a palatable and you know, that's a

868
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:17,960
Speaker 2: major piece of it, and it didn't ever feel gratuitous,

869
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:21,360
Speaker 2: because again, you're dealing with such a sensitive topic, victims,

870
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:24,319
Speaker 2: the sensitivity around that. There's really nobody that I think

871
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:24,919
Speaker 2: does it better.

872
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:29,480
Speaker 8: Well, thank you, but I I really I dislike the

873
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:34,120
Speaker 8: kind of recreation that has somebody walking down the hall

874
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:39,520
Speaker 8: with a knife dripping with blood. That is my idea of.

875
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:41,760
Speaker 3: Gratuitous.

876
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:44,960
Speaker 8: Yeah, you know, I don't think it's respectful to the families.

877
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:48,920
Speaker 8: I don't think that it's it. Also, I think it

878
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:50,200
Speaker 8: takes you out of the story.

879
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:54,759
Speaker 4: Well, you're telling the story of somebody's worst day, like

880
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 4: worst day ever, right, These true crime documentaries are literally

881
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:01,759
Speaker 4: the worst day of somebody's life, and you do it

882
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:04,440
Speaker 4: with real grace and real respect. And I, as a

883
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:07,240
Speaker 4: true crime fan myself, appreciate that. What got you into

884
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:09,799
Speaker 4: documentary filmmaking, Well, I think I.

885
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:15,239
Speaker 8: Always love stories, and I started from the very you know,

886
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:20,799
Speaker 8: from the bottom of a production assistant and work my

887
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 8: way up. And uh I did because I understand then

888
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:30,880
Speaker 8: everybody's role and know what it takes to, you know,

889
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:32,759
Speaker 8: and I like to mentor a lot of you know,

890
00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:35,760
Speaker 8: especially young women, and help them in their careers.

891
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:38,120
Speaker 2: It's so true you know, Catherine also came up in

892
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:41,040
Speaker 2: the Joe Berlinger Camp, which we've spoken about many times

893
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 2: because it's been cited here many times that so many

894
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:47,560
Speaker 2: people's very first doc that they really remember was Memphis

895
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:51,200
Speaker 2: three who were wrongfully convicted infamously and because of Joe

896
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:54,400
Speaker 2: Berlinger the director, he was able to get them free.

897
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:58,719
Speaker 2: I mean, that was such actionable work. Those three you know,

898
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:01,319
Speaker 2: young men would have will be behind bars.

899
00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:04,080
Speaker 4: Actually might be desecuted by now.

900
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:05,799
Speaker 3: He was probably set for.

901
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:09,680
Speaker 2: Execution, would be gone by now if not for the

902
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:13,239
Speaker 2: true doc the true crime documentary that he did, and

903
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:15,960
Speaker 2: that was sort of you know where you kind of well.

904
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:21,120
Speaker 8: Joe Berlinger's A Paradise Loss is one of the greatest

905
00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:26,320
Speaker 8: documentaries of true crime. And it's a it's a veritae show,

906
00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:29,759
Speaker 8: and it's so impactful and so meaningful. It had a

907
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:33,160
Speaker 8: great effect on the case, which which is unusual, but

908
00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:34,319
Speaker 8: it does happen.

909
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:36,640
Speaker 2: And it's important when it does that it's handled with

910
00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:39,719
Speaker 2: grace and with care and with precision, not just for

911
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:43,560
Speaker 2: you know, salacious numbers, but really because there's care.

912
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:46,720
Speaker 8: Well, right, because you're not just dealing with a show,

913
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:50,920
Speaker 8: You're dealing with real people. Who have gone through this,

914
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:55,280
Speaker 8: but also some of the families may think that the

915
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:57,080
Speaker 8: police got the right person.

916
00:47:57,040 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 4: Right, right, we see that all that's a documentary that

917
00:47:59,719 --> 00:48:02,120
Speaker 4: got me into true crime. I was on one of

918
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:04,879
Speaker 4: the the app you know, right after the first one

919
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:07,399
Speaker 4: came out. I joined the list serve for the West

920
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 4: Memphis three organ you know dot org, and was in

921
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:13,680
Speaker 4: the mailing list. This is old tiny computer stuff, you know.

922
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:15,919
Speaker 4: For all you youngins out there, that's how you would

923
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:18,640
Speaker 4: communicate is through like an email server signing up.

924
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 6: To the motem.

925
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:23,480
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, and uh yeah, that's how that So this

926
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:26,279
Speaker 4: is how I got involved in true crime. And so

927
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:29,240
Speaker 4: if it wasn't for that documentary, there wouldn't have been mine,

928
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:30,880
Speaker 4: and there wouldn't have been this, and there wouldn't have

929
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:34,080
Speaker 4: been that, you know, right. Yeah.

930
00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:36,880
Speaker 8: Well, Joe Burlinger was a great is a great mentor

931
00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:40,480
Speaker 8: to me and I and and one of the things

932
00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:44,279
Speaker 8: that he he always said as well, was one of

933
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:47,279
Speaker 8: the reasons we do true crime is to give the

934
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:52,840
Speaker 8: victims and their families and friends a voice. Yeah, so important,

935
00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:56,319
Speaker 8: and that is that is that is why we do

936
00:48:56,400 --> 00:49:01,960
Speaker 8: this genre. Is so so that because oftentimes the family

937
00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:06,920
Speaker 8: doesn't have a voice, and sometimes participating in this type

938
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:12,800
Speaker 8: of show can be very healing, and it can also

939
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:19,400
Speaker 8: really give them a way to pay tribute and honor

940
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:22,839
Speaker 8: to their loved ones, to let people know that these

941
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:26,120
Speaker 8: were people who were loved and are very missed.

942
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:28,799
Speaker 3: And aren't just a footnote or a headline. Right.

943
00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:33,920
Speaker 2: Oftentimes, the crime way overshadows the victims. They just become

944
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:36,160
Speaker 2: like their names are just in print and we don't

945
00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:38,839
Speaker 2: even talk about them because we're so focused on the

946
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:40,920
Speaker 2: actual crime and the criminal themselves.

947
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:41,239
Speaker 8: Right.

948
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:42,400
Speaker 3: So that's why.

949
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:43,960
Speaker 2: When Courtney and I first met you, it was a

950
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:47,799
Speaker 2: no brainer because a the care, but also knowing that

951
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:50,319
Speaker 2: you're going to be in people's homes that have been

952
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:54,160
Speaker 2: through unimaginable loss that they're not just being you know,

953
00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:57,040
Speaker 2: pussied around or you know, pushed around.

954
00:49:56,880 --> 00:49:59,000
Speaker 3: Or do this do that, Like that's not how it goes.

955
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:01,359
Speaker 2: You know, if someone sh their story and they have

956
00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:05,719
Speaker 2: the courage and the ability to do that, it's meaningful.

957
00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:09,439
Speaker 3: And I think others heal through hearing other stories. God knows.

958
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:12,240
Speaker 2: I feel like I have learned so much just by

959
00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:16,319
Speaker 2: interviewing other people who have been through things that you're like, huh,

960
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:18,680
Speaker 2: if you have pushed on the rest of us can too.

961
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:21,000
Speaker 3: You know, it's very inspiring in many ways.

962
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:26,080
Speaker 8: Yeah, it is, and I think that it's very important

963
00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:29,440
Speaker 8: when you're doing these shows to start to build a

964
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:31,560
Speaker 8: relationship with the family.

965
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:34,080
Speaker 3: Definitely, no, I definitely will said.

966
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:36,239
Speaker 4: And you know when I did mine on the one

967
00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:39,240
Speaker 4: of the things that I insisted on was that Luca

968
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:42,800
Speaker 4: wouldn't be in it and that Junlin's family, the victim

969
00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:45,120
Speaker 4: or friends would be in it. And Mark Lewis, who

970
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:48,000
Speaker 4: is my director, was like done to done, deal, no problem.

971
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:50,480
Speaker 4: So that's why. Anyway, you got to have a good director.

972
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:53,759
Speaker 2: Catherine's been very busy and hard at work. She's been

973
00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:57,480
Speaker 2: directing the documentary The Idaho Student Murders that'll be coming

974
00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:00,759
Speaker 2: out before the trial on Peacock. So please tune in

975
00:51:01,360 --> 00:51:03,640
Speaker 2: back to Idaho, Boddy, Why don't you give us a

976
00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:07,080
Speaker 2: little update on these big new developments today. You know, thankfully,

977
00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:10,480
Speaker 2: it looks like the judge has ruled they will not

978
00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:11,320
Speaker 2: be delaying.

979
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:14,279
Speaker 4: He made a couple of rulings today and to no

980
00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:18,640
Speaker 4: surprise to many, on June twenty sixth, Hippler did not

981
00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:25,240
Speaker 4: today denied the defense's motion to postpone the Brian Coberger trial.

982
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:28,320
Speaker 4: He stated that the team failed to show good cause

983
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:32,279
Speaker 4: for prejudice if the current schedule remained. In fact, he

984
00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:34,359
Speaker 4: kind of repeated what we said that it would only

985
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:37,759
Speaker 4: make it worse, right if it gets delayed. That you know,

986
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:41,080
Speaker 4: there's this intense gag order on everyone, and if it

987
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:44,120
Speaker 4: gets delayed, you know, people are hungry for information, right,

988
00:51:44,160 --> 00:51:47,400
Speaker 4: They're starving for information. So you know, these leaks are

989
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:49,239
Speaker 4: just going to get worse. The publicity's just going to

990
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:52,960
Speaker 4: get worse. So let's stop delaying things. And what he

991
00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:55,480
Speaker 4: said was it is not sufficient for the defendant to

992
00:51:55,560 --> 00:51:58,839
Speaker 4: merely offer up unsub Actually I'm on the wrong thing.

993
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:03,240
Speaker 4: Let me digress. He also said, I'm getting ahead of myself.

994
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:09,120
Speaker 4: He also said that they he denied the alternative suspects,

995
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:12,319
Speaker 4: so they wanted to introduce alternative suspects and you know,

996
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:14,919
Speaker 4: produce evidence to the jury to say no, it wasn't

997
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:17,680
Speaker 4: Brian Koberger, it was these people. And they named four people.

998
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:20,520
Speaker 4: Well we don't know who they named. It's all been redacted,

999
00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:23,640
Speaker 4: but they named four people. And the judge was like, uhh, no,

1000
00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:27,040
Speaker 4: they've been cleared. Those people that you've named have been cleared.

1001
00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:29,520
Speaker 4: And this is just going to confuse the jury. Right,

1002
00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:33,040
Speaker 4: the evidence is not there, it's all hearsay. And he

1003
00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:36,240
Speaker 4: said it is not sufficient for the defendant to merely

1004
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:39,800
Speaker 4: offer up unsupported speculation that another person may have committed

1005
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:43,360
Speaker 4: the crime, which is all the defendant has done here. Basically,

1006
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:45,880
Speaker 4: he's just saying, it's just speculation what you're offering. This

1007
00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:49,239
Speaker 4: isn't like hard concrete evidence that you know somebody else

1008
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:50,600
Speaker 4: has been involved and.

1009
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:53,719
Speaker 5: Their lives would be ruined if you was thrown in

1010
00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:58,319
Speaker 5: this high profile and Brian Koberger he is led she's

1011
00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:01,799
Speaker 5: the PhD student of criminology who is alleged to have

1012
00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:05,880
Speaker 5: murdered the four students at the University of Idaho.

1013
00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:08,040
Speaker 3: That's right, that's right.

1014
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:11,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's a twenty page ruling. The judge said the

1015
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:16,839
Speaker 4: defense had already has had two years to prepare for

1016
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:19,120
Speaker 4: this trial because you know they're asking for more time.

1017
00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:23,080
Speaker 4: They need to do you know, background investigation into who

1018
00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:26,560
Speaker 4: Brian Coberger is and like all his history. They just

1019
00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:28,640
Speaker 4: don't have another And the judge is like, listen, you've

1020
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:31,360
Speaker 4: already had two years enough. We're gonna be able to

1021
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:36,960
Speaker 4: get a fine jury, no problem. Voardwa exists. You're good

1022
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:37,239
Speaker 4: to go.

1023
00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:40,719
Speaker 2: I'm so relieved for that, mostly for the families. They

1024
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:44,640
Speaker 2: know Catherine, it's so difficult if a trial gets pushed

1025
00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:46,800
Speaker 2: too far for them to adjust.

1026
00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:49,160
Speaker 8: It's one of the worst things that can happen to

1027
00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:49,800
Speaker 8: a family.

1028
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:53,640
Speaker 4: Well, and Catherine right to you know, to your point,

1029
00:53:53,719 --> 00:53:56,759
Speaker 4: like this family does not live in the area, so

1030
00:53:56,800 --> 00:53:59,719
Speaker 4: they have to travel right now, it's important to know.

1031
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:03,200
Speaker 4: There was an amended scheduling order also released today. The

1032
00:54:03,239 --> 00:54:07,680
Speaker 4: trial has been pushedback one week. So the trial was

1033
00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:12,360
Speaker 4: it was scheduled to begin August eleventh, it's now scheduled

1034
00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:16,520
Speaker 4: to begin estimated to begin. I emphasize the word estimated

1035
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:19,880
Speaker 4: to begin August eighteenth, because it could change again. I

1036
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:23,480
Speaker 4: remember on the eve of Delphi it changed and it

1037
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:25,640
Speaker 4: was like, oh my gosh, so please don't be shocked

1038
00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:27,520
Speaker 4: if it changes again, because it could.

1039
00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:28,760
Speaker 3: I hope it doesn't.

1040
00:54:29,120 --> 00:54:31,799
Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean, I think so many more leaks could

1041
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:36,040
Speaker 8: come out, more shows, more, oh, you know, all all

1042
00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:39,280
Speaker 8: will just make things worse.

1043
00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:40,880
Speaker 3: We'll just make things worse.

1044
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:44,040
Speaker 2: And especially if those you know, particular projects have a

1045
00:54:44,040 --> 00:54:47,040
Speaker 2: real POV right, if there have a point of view

1046
00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:50,920
Speaker 2: that could potentially lead or you know, sort of taint

1047
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:54,000
Speaker 2: a jury pool. I guess that's always the defenses kind

1048
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:55,920
Speaker 2: of they raise their hand and say, oh, there's a

1049
00:54:55,960 --> 00:54:59,640
Speaker 2: book coming out and this could you know, sway a jury.

1050
00:54:59,719 --> 00:55:04,200
Speaker 2: So therefore a delay sometimes happened. We've seen this happen

1051
00:55:04,239 --> 00:55:06,759
Speaker 2: many times in the Idaho case. It seems like this

1052
00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:09,200
Speaker 2: summer is when it's going to happen. And I find

1053
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:12,479
Speaker 2: it pretty reassuring from the judge that it's only moved

1054
00:55:12,520 --> 00:55:12,839
Speaker 2: a week.

1055
00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:15,839
Speaker 3: Chances are that might be the end of it, let's hope.

1056
00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:18,600
Speaker 4: So I mean, I don't think it'll be moved again.

1057
00:55:18,640 --> 00:55:21,799
Speaker 4: I just I think people should be prepared just in case, you.

1058
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:23,800
Speaker 2: Know, you know, to to end. We were talking about

1059
00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:25,719
Speaker 2: this last night after the show. You know, we're going

1060
00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:30,320
Speaker 2: to put up on the website some gofundmes because the

1061
00:55:30,360 --> 00:55:34,400
Speaker 2: four victims, their families, like you mentioned, want to travel

1062
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:36,279
Speaker 2: to the trial, and it's not an easy place to

1063
00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:37,080
Speaker 2: get to.

1064
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:38,280
Speaker 3: To get to this particular location.

1065
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:40,440
Speaker 2: Catherine, who lived it, you know, it's it's kind of

1066
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:43,200
Speaker 2: complicated and expensive and it takes time.

1067
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:47,040
Speaker 8: Well, Moscow is about five and a half hours away

1068
00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:51,040
Speaker 8: from Boising, so it is a big you know, if

1069
00:55:51,080 --> 00:55:53,799
Speaker 8: you're going there, you know, you obviously have to stay

1070
00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:56,640
Speaker 8: in hotels. You have to You can't go back and

1071
00:55:56,640 --> 00:55:57,560
Speaker 8: forth each day.

1072
00:55:57,680 --> 00:55:59,880
Speaker 2: You had to take time off of work. So the

1073
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:05,120
Speaker 2: Gonzalvez family, the Shapin family, the Mogan family, and obviously

1074
00:56:05,360 --> 00:56:09,080
Speaker 2: their Kernodle family that they're all having individual gofundmeans just

1075
00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:11,800
Speaker 2: to raise some money because they're going to be losing work.

1076
00:56:12,239 --> 00:56:13,640
Speaker 3: They have to go and stay and.

1077
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:16,880
Speaker 2: They want to support their you know, children's memory and

1078
00:56:16,960 --> 00:56:18,680
Speaker 2: make sure that they don't get lost in the sauce

1079
00:56:18,719 --> 00:56:21,759
Speaker 2: during this very high profile trial. And you know, some

1080
00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:23,480
Speaker 2: of them have been able to raise a little bit

1081
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:26,120
Speaker 2: of money, but surely not enough. So if anybody out

1082
00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:28,600
Speaker 2: there wants to participate, we don't have any We don't

1083
00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:31,120
Speaker 2: deal with it at all, but you know we would

1084
00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:32,680
Speaker 2: encourage you to do so if you want to.

1085
00:56:33,200 --> 00:56:38,800
Speaker 5: Absolutely so, Catherine, what first with is Brian Goldberger case?

1086
00:56:38,960 --> 00:56:42,560
Speaker 5: What first either stood out to you or attracted you?

1087
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:44,759
Speaker 6: What were your first thoughts?

1088
00:56:45,840 --> 00:56:49,520
Speaker 8: Well, when we read about the case, you know, as

1089
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:53,520
Speaker 8: the director and showrunner, the first one of the first

1090
00:56:53,560 --> 00:56:56,160
Speaker 8: things I have to do is to write a treatment

1091
00:56:56,320 --> 00:57:01,120
Speaker 8: and also to create a style guide for how the

1092
00:57:01,160 --> 00:57:04,759
Speaker 8: look of the show is going to be so uh

1093
00:57:05,040 --> 00:57:09,680
Speaker 8: In doing that, I always think about the story and

1094
00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:13,080
Speaker 8: what what hit me so hard in this In this

1095
00:57:13,560 --> 00:57:17,840
Speaker 8: case was the victims more so than I think any

1096
00:57:17,920 --> 00:57:23,960
Speaker 8: other show I've done, in that they were young, young people.

1097
00:57:24,160 --> 00:57:27,640
Speaker 3: I mean kids really literally like kids.

1098
00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:27,680
Speaker 1: You know.

1099
00:57:28,240 --> 00:57:31,280
Speaker 8: So and they were, but they were just about to

1100
00:57:31,320 --> 00:57:36,240
Speaker 8: start their lives. And there's something so horrifying about a

1101
00:57:36,600 --> 00:57:40,040
Speaker 8: you know, a boogeyman in the middle of the night

1102
00:57:40,760 --> 00:57:45,000
Speaker 8: coming when you have you know, six people in the house, right,

1103
00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:48,720
Speaker 8: you got you know, your you're the whole king road

1104
00:57:48,840 --> 00:57:52,320
Speaker 8: is surrounded by tons of other houses. Kids are up,

1105
00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:54,760
Speaker 8: It's Saturday night. They're all over the place.

1106
00:57:55,120 --> 00:57:55,360
Speaker 7: Sure.

1107
00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:55,800
Speaker 5: Uh.

1108
00:57:56,800 --> 00:58:03,160
Speaker 8: And and the idea that something so evil is lurking

1109
00:58:03,400 --> 00:58:09,120
Speaker 8: outside of your off campus housing is unimaginable exactly.

1110
00:58:09,600 --> 00:58:11,360
Speaker 2: And also the fact that there didn't seem to be

1111
00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:15,720
Speaker 2: a really big connection between the alleged perpetrator and these

1112
00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:18,800
Speaker 2: four victims, that alone is just so scary and a

1113
00:58:18,800 --> 00:58:19,720
Speaker 2: little unusual.

1114
00:58:20,200 --> 00:58:23,600
Speaker 8: It's very unusual and that kind of you know. And

1115
00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:26,360
Speaker 8: we'll find out in the trial, right, we'll find out

1116
00:58:27,040 --> 00:58:31,840
Speaker 8: what if any connection there was, because the motive in this.

1117
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:33,600
Speaker 4: Case is so elusive.

1118
00:58:33,840 --> 00:58:38,000
Speaker 8: Yeah, And that's a huge mystery here that you know.

1119
00:58:38,080 --> 00:58:41,000
Speaker 8: I don't know if we'll we'll ever know, but we

1120
00:58:41,120 --> 00:58:42,200
Speaker 8: certainly have theories.

1121
00:58:42,440 --> 00:58:43,680
Speaker 3: We certainly have theories.

1122
00:58:43,720 --> 00:58:47,200
Speaker 2: And if in fact the accused is in fact found guilty,

1123
00:58:47,440 --> 00:58:49,280
Speaker 2: you know, I wonder if we would hear from Brian

1124
00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:52,760
Speaker 2: Coberger himself. His family has been pretty quiet. They've been,

1125
00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:56,440
Speaker 2: you know, understandably pretty silent, and we can only imagine

1126
00:58:56,440 --> 00:58:59,440
Speaker 2: how harrowing that must be because they, by all accounts

1127
00:58:59,440 --> 00:59:02,320
Speaker 2: seemed to love and loved him very much. So this

1128
00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:04,640
Speaker 2: is very shocking, I would imagine.

1129
00:59:04,840 --> 00:59:06,760
Speaker 8: I mean, can you imagine being in there.

1130
00:59:06,760 --> 00:59:09,360
Speaker 2: Show I can't, And it takes the courage to go

1131
00:59:09,400 --> 00:59:11,240
Speaker 2: to the trial. They have said that they will be

1132
00:59:11,320 --> 00:59:15,240
Speaker 2: sitting behind him in support, and again that's tough, man.

1133
00:59:15,360 --> 00:59:16,040
Speaker 3: Can you imagine.

1134
00:59:16,280 --> 00:59:21,000
Speaker 2: I cannot is up for something so massively hideous, and

1135
00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:23,600
Speaker 2: you have to also sit with other parents who've lost

1136
00:59:23,640 --> 00:59:24,200
Speaker 2: their heids.

1137
00:59:24,400 --> 00:59:26,800
Speaker 3: All of it's just, you know, and his life is

1138
00:59:26,840 --> 00:59:28,919
Speaker 3: on the line, and his life is on the line.

1139
00:59:28,960 --> 00:59:31,800
Speaker 2: And by the way, if he is found guilty and

1140
00:59:32,040 --> 00:59:33,720
Speaker 2: is in fact sentenced to death.

1141
00:59:33,800 --> 00:59:37,240
Speaker 4: He might be killed by a firing squad. Right March

1142
00:59:37,280 --> 00:59:41,360
Speaker 4: of this year, Idaho enacted a bill. They approved a

1143
00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:45,080
Speaker 4: bill that made firing squad the primary method of execution

1144
00:59:45,200 --> 00:59:48,640
Speaker 4: and it goes into effect July of twenty twenty six.

1145
00:59:49,080 --> 00:59:49,400
Speaker 3: Wow.

1146
00:59:49,560 --> 00:59:51,280
Speaker 4: And I'm not sure if that's something the jury is

1147
00:59:51,320 --> 00:59:53,960
Speaker 4: going to consider when they're, you know, in the penalty

1148
00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:57,080
Speaker 4: phase of this trial, this court hearing, if he's found guilty.

1149
00:59:57,240 --> 00:59:59,480
Speaker 4: I'm not sure if that's something that they consider the

1150
00:59:59,520 --> 01:00:01,080
Speaker 4: method execution. I'm not sure.

1151
01:00:01,120 --> 01:00:04,000
Speaker 5: Well, but not for nothing, don't I don't know. In

1152
01:00:04,120 --> 01:00:07,000
Speaker 5: Idaho do you get to choose should you be in

1153
01:00:07,040 --> 01:00:08,680
Speaker 5: that unenviable position.

1154
01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:11,200
Speaker 6: No body is shaking her head. You do not get

1155
01:00:11,200 --> 01:00:11,959
Speaker 6: to choose the metal.

1156
01:00:12,120 --> 01:00:17,360
Speaker 4: So, as of July twenty twenty six, the primary method

1157
01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:20,040
Speaker 4: of execution is a firing squad, and it's going to

1158
01:00:20,080 --> 01:00:22,360
Speaker 4: be like mechanical, like I don't know if it's a

1159
01:00:22,440 --> 01:00:27,280
Speaker 4: roll kind of situation. Good grief. By the way, here's

1160
01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:28,919
Speaker 4: what they do. They put you in a chair.

1161
01:00:29,120 --> 01:00:29,440
Speaker 6: Do it?

1162
01:00:29,480 --> 01:00:31,280
Speaker 4: Oh my goodness, they put you in a chair. Do

1163
01:00:31,280 --> 01:00:33,080
Speaker 4: you want to tell you this? Yeah, And they put

1164
01:00:33,120 --> 01:00:37,480
Speaker 4: a target over your heart and they line up this mechanism.

1165
01:00:37,600 --> 01:00:40,560
Speaker 4: It's it's apparently not going to be people like a

1166
01:00:40,600 --> 01:00:45,880
Speaker 4: mass guard or and they remotely control the gun or guns,

1167
01:00:46,000 --> 01:00:48,920
Speaker 4: many guns, I'm not sure, and they shoot your heart.

1168
01:00:49,040 --> 01:00:51,280
Speaker 4: You lose consciousness immediately and you bleed out.

1169
01:00:51,400 --> 01:00:55,080
Speaker 2: Holy smokes, because before that, when it was not mechanical,

1170
01:00:55,240 --> 01:00:58,800
Speaker 2: it was actually multiple it was and they had the blaters.

1171
01:00:59,120 --> 01:01:01,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, this was as they had only one gun.

1172
01:01:02,720 --> 01:01:05,640
Speaker 2: And the reason for that is that whoever actually did

1173
01:01:05,680 --> 01:01:09,320
Speaker 2: the shooting successfully you wouldn't know because there were blanks

1174
01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:12,920
Speaker 2: and the person who had the real ammunition was unaware.

1175
01:01:13,400 --> 01:01:14,880
Speaker 3: I mean, is that so scary to me?

1176
01:01:15,120 --> 01:01:17,280
Speaker 4: Well, I wouldn't want to be a correctional officer and

1177
01:01:17,280 --> 01:01:19,720
Speaker 4: then also have to kill people. I'm how terrible that

1178
01:01:19,840 --> 01:01:20,600
Speaker 4: is that job?

1179
01:01:20,840 --> 01:01:23,160
Speaker 8: What if that happen in South Carolina just this year?

1180
01:01:23,200 --> 01:01:23,480
Speaker 3: It did?

1181
01:01:23,680 --> 01:01:26,480
Speaker 2: It did such a good point, Catherine, that's such a

1182
01:01:26,480 --> 01:01:28,040
Speaker 2: good point right now.

1183
01:01:28,240 --> 01:01:30,920
Speaker 4: The firing squad is the way they do it as

1184
01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:32,920
Speaker 4: a backup, like if they run out of the medication

1185
01:01:33,000 --> 01:01:35,920
Speaker 4: for lethal injection, which happened during COVID. That's why all

1186
01:01:35,920 --> 01:01:39,200
Speaker 4: this came up. It was the backup. Now it's the primary,

1187
01:01:39,520 --> 01:01:41,360
Speaker 4: but it is supposed to be more mean, So, I

1188
01:01:41,360 --> 01:01:41,840
Speaker 4: don't know.

1189
01:01:41,880 --> 01:01:42,240
Speaker 6: I don't know.

1190
01:01:42,280 --> 01:01:44,880
Speaker 5: It's a wild world we are living in, but listen,

1191
01:01:45,080 --> 01:01:48,760
Speaker 5: we are so glad that you joined us, Catherine Park.

1192
01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:49,760
Speaker 6: We appreciate you.

1193
01:01:49,800 --> 01:01:52,920
Speaker 5: Please check out the Idaho student murders on Peacock.

1194
01:01:53,240 --> 01:01:53,560
Speaker 8: Thanks.

1195
01:01:53,640 --> 01:01:55,280
Speaker 6: And it's Pride.

1196
01:01:54,960 --> 01:01:58,320
Speaker 5: Month on True Crime, and we have stories that you

1197
01:01:58,320 --> 01:02:01,240
Speaker 5: should hear about. Don't forget to call us eighty eight

1198
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:04,640
Speaker 5: three one Crime, keep it here, True Crime tonight.

1199
01:02:15,640 --> 01:02:18,040
Speaker 2: So what a night kind of getting this deep dive

1200
01:02:18,120 --> 01:02:21,480
Speaker 2: from Catherine Park on documentaries and sort of the behind

1201
01:02:21,520 --> 01:02:24,520
Speaker 2: the scenes. I always find it so compelling, so great

1202
01:02:24,600 --> 01:02:26,360
Speaker 2: and wonderful.

1203
01:02:26,680 --> 01:02:30,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, no idea, how hard it is to make a documentary, right,

1204
01:02:30,680 --> 01:02:32,720
Speaker 4: It is a lot of work. It's a lot. Yeah,

1205
01:02:32,880 --> 01:02:34,560
Speaker 4: I mean it goes into a person in it. I

1206
01:02:34,560 --> 01:02:36,520
Speaker 4: had to do a lot of work. I can imagine

1207
01:02:36,680 --> 01:02:37,880
Speaker 4: being a director, Oh my god.

1208
01:02:38,160 --> 01:02:40,880
Speaker 2: And it's so sensitive and I think, you know, even

1209
01:02:40,880 --> 01:02:43,400
Speaker 2: to participate to your point, it's such a sensitive thing.

1210
01:02:43,480 --> 01:02:45,760
Speaker 2: And you know, you can imagine it as a family member.

1211
01:02:45,800 --> 01:02:49,840
Speaker 2: You're sharing such you know, hard details that it really

1212
01:02:49,880 --> 01:02:54,960
Speaker 2: does need a very classic, classy, smart, caring person to

1213
01:02:55,040 --> 01:02:56,280
Speaker 2: be doing those interviews.

1214
01:02:56,560 --> 01:02:58,320
Speaker 4: Well, I think I think of the director as like

1215
01:02:58,320 --> 01:03:01,760
Speaker 4: the voice exactly, like they set the tone. Let's say

1216
01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:04,800
Speaker 4: that right, right, And She's just a really good example

1217
01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:07,840
Speaker 4: of good tone for its exact glenary right, so very

1218
01:03:07,920 --> 01:03:09,200
Speaker 4: victim focused.

1219
01:03:09,360 --> 01:03:12,480
Speaker 2: Very much so, and a real class act. So thank

1220
01:03:12,520 --> 01:03:15,320
Speaker 2: you again Catherine Park for joining us here in the studio.

1221
01:03:15,600 --> 01:03:18,920
Speaker 2: And you know, listen, important topics continue because Pride Month,

1222
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:22,959
Speaker 2: you know, we've had we've had a different story each night,

1223
01:03:23,320 --> 01:03:26,120
Speaker 2: and this is something we're going to continue outside of

1224
01:03:26,160 --> 01:03:29,000
Speaker 2: this month too. It doesn't require just a month to

1225
01:03:29,080 --> 01:03:31,760
Speaker 2: be able to highlight some of these underreported cases.

1226
01:03:32,600 --> 01:03:34,200
Speaker 3: So this will continue.

1227
01:03:34,240 --> 01:03:36,959
Speaker 2: But in honor of Pride Month, we have yet another

1228
01:03:37,000 --> 01:03:40,280
Speaker 2: one that we want to share as well. So you know, body,

1229
01:03:40,320 --> 01:03:43,240
Speaker 2: where should we begin? So I want to begin with

1230
01:03:43,600 --> 01:03:48,560
Speaker 2: Caddie Grass. She's somebody that I came to know about

1231
01:03:48,640 --> 01:03:52,360
Speaker 2: about a month ago because I read her story in

1232
01:03:52,440 --> 01:03:54,680
Speaker 2: like a news article somewhere and I posted it, I think,

1233
01:03:54,720 --> 01:03:57,360
Speaker 2: to my Facebook and YouTube because I was like enraged

1234
01:03:57,400 --> 01:04:01,840
Speaker 2: about it. So she is in May, actually maybe it

1235
01:04:01,880 --> 01:04:04,040
Speaker 2: was more than yeah, about a month ago on May

1236
01:04:04,080 --> 01:04:06,640
Speaker 2: thirteenth of this year. She's nineteen years old, and she

1237
01:04:06,720 --> 01:04:09,479
Speaker 2: went to a she lives in Wisconsin, and she went

1238
01:04:09,560 --> 01:04:12,560
Speaker 2: to a choir concert for her little thirteen year old niece.

1239
01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:16,280
Speaker 2: And she's nineteen year old. And she's nineteen years old,

1240
01:04:16,360 --> 01:04:19,400
Speaker 2: and she took her thirteen year old to McDonald's after

1241
01:04:19,400 --> 01:04:22,720
Speaker 2: this choir concert. They order their food, she goes to

1242
01:04:22,760 --> 01:04:26,280
Speaker 2: the bathroom and she comes out and she's basically assaulted.

1243
01:04:26,680 --> 01:04:32,680
Speaker 2: And it's important to know that Katie, she's assists female.

1244
01:04:33,080 --> 01:04:37,640
Speaker 2: She's born female, she you know, identifies as female. And

1245
01:04:37,800 --> 01:04:39,760
Speaker 2: she's got short hair and dresses like a boy.

1246
01:04:40,800 --> 01:04:43,920
Speaker 4: So she's like what many would consider like a masculine

1247
01:04:44,000 --> 01:04:48,280
Speaker 4: presenting female or in old in times people well maybe

1248
01:04:48,360 --> 01:04:51,120
Speaker 4: not so much old, but or butch let's say, like

1249
01:04:51,320 --> 01:04:55,080
Speaker 4: you know, if you're picturing somebody. And she was approached

1250
01:04:55,080 --> 01:04:57,280
Speaker 4: by two young men, you know, and they were calling

1251
01:04:57,320 --> 01:04:59,200
Speaker 4: her the F word. I don't want to say it,

1252
01:04:59,240 --> 01:05:01,480
Speaker 4: but you can guess when I'm you know what they

1253
01:05:01,520 --> 01:05:04,720
Speaker 4: called her and questioning on whether why she was using

1254
01:05:04,760 --> 01:05:06,960
Speaker 4: the women's restroom, and she's like, I'm a girl, you know,

1255
01:05:07,160 --> 01:05:09,880
Speaker 4: I'm a girl. And they beat her up and she

1256
01:05:10,000 --> 01:05:14,120
Speaker 4: had to go to the hospital. She had she posted

1257
01:05:14,120 --> 01:05:16,840
Speaker 4: a picture from the hospital and her face was just

1258
01:05:16,880 --> 01:05:20,840
Speaker 4: black and blue. And she's nineteen. She's a kid, nineteen

1259
01:05:20,920 --> 01:05:25,480
Speaker 4: years old. Well, the assault, the people that did this

1260
01:05:25,560 --> 01:05:29,760
Speaker 4: are John Camrad he's nineteen years old, and another juvenile

1261
01:05:29,880 --> 01:05:31,960
Speaker 4: who we don't know their name because they're a juvenile.

1262
01:05:32,240 --> 01:05:34,360
Speaker 4: But at the time, the reason I was so enraged.

1263
01:05:34,520 --> 01:05:37,360
Speaker 4: Obviously I was upset that this poor girl got beat up,

1264
01:05:37,480 --> 01:05:41,080
Speaker 4: you know, of course, but hate crime charges were not

1265
01:05:41,280 --> 01:05:44,360
Speaker 4: being these kids were not being charged with hate crime.

1266
01:05:44,600 --> 01:05:48,360
Speaker 4: And Katie was like, what is going on? Like I

1267
01:05:48,520 --> 01:05:52,440
Speaker 4: was assaulted because I'm gay, right right, Like they were

1268
01:05:52,560 --> 01:05:55,560
Speaker 4: using the F word. They beat her up senselessly. She

1269
01:05:55,600 --> 01:05:59,480
Speaker 4: had to go to the hospital. Well, by May twenty eighth,

1270
01:05:59,680 --> 01:06:03,200
Speaker 4: which was about fifteen days later or so, the prosecutors

1271
01:06:03,200 --> 01:06:06,920
Speaker 4: added hate crime charges against them, and so this is

1272
01:06:06,960 --> 01:06:09,720
Speaker 4: a victory according to Caddy Grass. She described it as

1273
01:06:09,760 --> 01:06:12,280
Speaker 4: a much needed sense of relief. You know, I mean,

1274
01:06:12,320 --> 01:06:15,040
Speaker 4: how scary, Like I don't know, it's just something that

1275
01:06:15,400 --> 01:06:18,200
Speaker 4: I worry about. Not for me, but you know, for

1276
01:06:18,320 --> 01:06:18,760
Speaker 4: people I.

1277
01:06:18,720 --> 01:06:20,040
Speaker 3: Care about, I understand.

1278
01:06:20,240 --> 01:06:22,600
Speaker 2: So imagine just going to the bathroom and just you know,

1279
01:06:23,280 --> 01:06:26,000
Speaker 2: just an ordinary day and you just you know, take

1280
01:06:26,040 --> 01:06:27,680
Speaker 2: it to the face that way.

1281
01:06:28,160 --> 01:06:29,680
Speaker 3: That's really horrifying.

1282
01:06:30,040 --> 01:06:32,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's not okay, not okay, not okay.

1283
01:06:32,840 --> 01:06:36,360
Speaker 5: Just to live every day with that level of impending

1284
01:06:37,080 --> 01:06:42,920
Speaker 5: threat a very very close friend of mine who Stephanie

1285
01:06:42,920 --> 01:06:48,000
Speaker 5: actually knows trans man, and he was going across country

1286
01:06:48,520 --> 01:06:52,280
Speaker 5: alone and on the ride what we would talk about

1287
01:06:52,320 --> 01:06:57,280
Speaker 5: and he would say, I, in certain locations, I don't

1288
01:06:57,360 --> 01:06:59,760
Speaker 5: even know what to do. I am completely I feel

1289
01:06:59,760 --> 01:07:03,439
Speaker 5: completely unsafe, and I do not feel able to use

1290
01:07:03,680 --> 01:07:07,480
Speaker 5: the restroom, which is one of what like three biological

1291
01:07:07,560 --> 01:07:11,960
Speaker 5: imperatives to keep us alive, right, and that's you're being

1292
01:07:12,040 --> 01:07:16,120
Speaker 5: faced with violence for existing, you know, to do that.

1293
01:07:16,240 --> 01:07:20,040
Speaker 6: It's it's really too hard to.

1294
01:07:19,200 --> 01:07:21,520
Speaker 5: Wrap your mind around, but very important to talk about.

1295
01:07:22,120 --> 01:07:25,000
Speaker 5: So body, did you have another story to share?

1296
01:07:25,480 --> 01:07:29,920
Speaker 4: I do, actually, and unfortunately, yes I do. I do

1297
01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:32,800
Speaker 4: want to finish Caddy up real quick, because even though

1298
01:07:32,840 --> 01:07:35,040
Speaker 4: she's so young, she's only nineteen years old. You guys

1299
01:07:35,120 --> 01:07:37,400
Speaker 4: like she has a lot of maturity that I wish

1300
01:07:37,520 --> 01:07:41,120
Speaker 4: I had even at my age. You know, she has

1301
01:07:41,200 --> 01:07:44,520
Speaker 4: spoken openly about the trauma she endured since that time,

1302
01:07:44,560 --> 01:07:47,480
Speaker 4: and she's expressed her determination to use her experience to

1303
01:07:47,560 --> 01:07:51,080
Speaker 4: inspire others. And I think that's such an important piece

1304
01:07:51,120 --> 01:07:55,040
Speaker 4: of the story because she's using her experience to educate people, right,

1305
01:07:55,120 --> 01:07:58,440
Speaker 4: And I just think that's really important. My person, I

1306
01:07:58,520 --> 01:08:02,160
Speaker 4: know when I'm with her, I won't let her go

1307
01:08:02,240 --> 01:08:04,400
Speaker 4: to the bathroom alone, you know, like you know, I

1308
01:08:04,480 --> 01:08:09,200
Speaker 4: just won't. And she's perfectly good, listen, She's perfectly capable

1309
01:08:09,200 --> 01:08:11,960
Speaker 4: of handling herself one hundred percent. But it's just something

1310
01:08:12,000 --> 01:08:14,400
Speaker 4: like I just won't just because of stories like this,

1311
01:08:14,800 --> 01:08:15,960
Speaker 4: because people are ignorant.

1312
01:08:16,479 --> 01:08:19,120
Speaker 3: It's crazy, no matter how I hope that's so for

1313
01:08:19,200 --> 01:08:21,479
Speaker 3: granted too, just say I do too.

1314
01:08:21,560 --> 01:08:23,280
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm very feminine, you know, like.

1315
01:08:23,400 --> 01:08:26,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, granted right, So I just hats off to Caddie.

1316
01:08:26,960 --> 01:08:29,360
Speaker 4: You're you know, I'm definitely paying attention to your story,

1317
01:08:29,400 --> 01:08:31,920
Speaker 4: and you're definitely an inspiration for others, and you know,

1318
01:08:32,400 --> 01:08:33,920
Speaker 4: I hope you.

1319
01:08:33,920 --> 01:08:35,840
Speaker 3: Have a great life me too, I say.

1320
01:08:36,040 --> 01:08:38,519
Speaker 4: The next story I have is just as equally depressing,

1321
01:08:39,000 --> 01:08:42,760
Speaker 4: even more so. This is a newlywed lesbian couple. They

1322
01:08:42,760 --> 01:08:46,640
Speaker 4: were camping in Utah near Moab, famously from you know,

1323
01:08:46,680 --> 01:08:49,479
Speaker 4: Gabby Patito's case, right where they got pulled over. I

1324
01:08:49,520 --> 01:08:52,160
Speaker 4: can't help but think about that. They were violently murdered

1325
01:08:52,360 --> 01:08:55,479
Speaker 4: by one of their coworkers in August of twenty twenty one.

1326
01:08:55,880 --> 01:08:59,280
Speaker 4: The alleged perpetrator later committed suicide, so he was never

1327
01:08:59,320 --> 01:09:03,120
Speaker 4: officially con although law enforcement does consider there to be

1328
01:09:03,240 --> 01:09:07,840
Speaker 4: enough evidence to rule the case as closed. Thankfully, the

1329
01:09:07,920 --> 01:09:10,840
Speaker 4: killer himself was allegedly in the relationship with another man,

1330
01:09:11,240 --> 01:09:15,320
Speaker 4: although he seems to have had like extreme beliefs. The

1331
01:09:15,520 --> 01:09:19,559
Speaker 4: victims in this case are Kylin Schultz, she was twenty four,

1332
01:09:19,960 --> 01:09:23,439
Speaker 4: and Crystal Turner, who was twenty eight. They were recently married.

1333
01:09:23,439 --> 01:09:27,360
Speaker 4: They were newlyweds. Wow, I mean, it's so sad. They

1334
01:09:27,360 --> 01:09:30,599
Speaker 4: were camping in Utah and they were lasting alive. On

1335
01:09:30,640 --> 01:09:34,320
Speaker 4: August thirteenth, they told friends about like a creepy dude

1336
01:09:34,400 --> 01:09:37,880
Speaker 4: that was like following them around near their campsite who

1337
01:09:37,920 --> 01:09:40,200
Speaker 4: was just making them look super uncomfortable. But they weren't

1338
01:09:40,240 --> 01:09:43,120
Speaker 4: concerned enough to move their campsite.

1339
01:09:42,560 --> 01:09:44,400
Speaker 2: Right because you don't want to be rude, you don't

1340
01:09:44,400 --> 01:09:47,280
Speaker 2: want to be overrealzing. So we just kind of, you know,

1341
01:09:47,320 --> 01:09:49,800
Speaker 2: sometimes you just brush it off. Nobody feel So.

1342
01:09:49,960 --> 01:09:52,920
Speaker 4: The couple was reported missing on the eighteenth, which was

1343
01:09:53,000 --> 01:09:56,680
Speaker 4: like five days after they had last been seen. So

1344
01:09:56,720 --> 01:09:58,920
Speaker 4: they went missing for about five days and their fans,

1345
01:09:58,960 --> 01:10:00,720
Speaker 4: you know, the friend's family, are like, what's going on.

1346
01:10:00,960 --> 01:10:03,720
Speaker 4: They were reported missing after not showing up for work

1347
01:10:03,800 --> 01:10:06,960
Speaker 4: or responding to any messages, and a friend went searching

1348
01:10:06,960 --> 01:10:10,760
Speaker 4: and discovered their bodies. A friend like, how scary, Like,

1349
01:10:11,080 --> 01:10:14,400
Speaker 4: I don't know, it's just very scary. And both women

1350
01:10:14,560 --> 01:10:17,800
Speaker 4: were discovered undressed from the waist down in a crete

1351
01:10:18,040 --> 01:10:21,640
Speaker 4: close to the campsite, with multiple gunshot wounds to their

1352
01:10:22,080 --> 01:10:25,800
Speaker 4: their backs and sides in chest area. There was no

1353
01:10:25,880 --> 01:10:29,080
Speaker 4: robbery or any sexual assault, they were just stripped. Police

1354
01:10:29,080 --> 01:10:31,960
Speaker 4: have stated that they had enough evidence to close the case.

1355
01:10:32,160 --> 01:10:36,120
Speaker 4: They connected Adam I cannot pronounce his last name, pink

1356
01:10:36,280 --> 01:10:40,600
Speaker 4: wet Skicks. Listen, I'm just gonna say Adam p okay

1357
01:10:40,200 --> 01:10:42,680
Speaker 4: okay to the murder to close the place, including they

1358
01:10:42,720 --> 01:10:45,400
Speaker 4: matched the ammunition because it was like super unique and

1359
01:10:45,680 --> 01:10:49,040
Speaker 4: ammunition had like these red tipped hollow point bullets that

1360
01:10:49,080 --> 01:10:53,160
Speaker 4: are like super rare, so they matched that. So there

1361
01:10:53,200 --> 01:10:55,920
Speaker 4: was surveillance video of his car near the crime scene,

1362
01:10:55,960 --> 01:10:58,479
Speaker 4: so he was very likely the creepy guy that was

1363
01:10:58,520 --> 01:11:01,640
Speaker 4: like following them around. And there were digital records like

1364
01:11:01,760 --> 01:11:04,880
Speaker 4: texts and purchases and cell tower pings placing him in

1365
01:11:04,960 --> 01:11:08,080
Speaker 4: moeb at the time of the murders. And and this

1366
01:11:08,200 --> 01:11:13,480
Speaker 4: is the crazy part. He allegedly confessed to his significant

1367
01:11:13,479 --> 01:11:17,479
Speaker 4: other who remains anonymous. This guy remains anonymous, and he

1368
01:11:17,560 --> 01:11:20,080
Speaker 4: described details of the case that were not made public,

1369
01:11:20,160 --> 01:11:23,439
Speaker 4: So he knew like inside information that the police had

1370
01:11:23,439 --> 01:11:26,960
Speaker 4: not reported on. Right, And that's another that's like a

1371
01:11:27,080 --> 01:11:29,040
Speaker 4: real talent. That's a real tell.

1372
01:11:29,240 --> 01:11:29,960
Speaker 3: That's yeah.

1373
01:11:30,160 --> 01:11:33,000
Speaker 4: And that's why a lot of the times, people you

1374
01:11:33,000 --> 01:11:35,400
Speaker 4: know are not people. But the cops don't tell you

1375
01:11:35,479 --> 01:11:38,639
Speaker 4: everything about a case, right, That's why they don't communicate

1376
01:11:38,680 --> 01:11:41,560
Speaker 4: everything to a case because of this kind of situation.

1377
01:11:41,960 --> 01:11:44,479
Speaker 4: This guy had inside information that was not released to

1378
01:11:44,520 --> 01:11:48,000
Speaker 4: the news about the crime scene and the murders, and

1379
01:11:48,160 --> 01:11:50,840
Speaker 4: he was able to relay that to the cops and

1380
01:11:50,880 --> 01:11:53,200
Speaker 4: they were like, okay, he must know. This guy really

1381
01:11:53,200 --> 01:11:57,880
Speaker 4: did confess, So that's pretty interesting. And you know, apparently

1382
01:11:57,920 --> 01:12:02,000
Speaker 4: this guy worked with them at McDonald They worked at McDonald's,

1383
01:12:02,600 --> 01:12:05,840
Speaker 4: and he said that they were really bossy and this

1384
01:12:05,880 --> 01:12:07,520
Speaker 4: is why he did this.

1385
01:12:07,520 --> 01:12:11,240
Speaker 2: This is why he killed them, right what, Yeah, for

1386
01:12:11,320 --> 01:12:12,200
Speaker 2: being bossy?

1387
01:12:12,439 --> 01:12:14,840
Speaker 4: Mm hmm yeh. He had and he had notes on

1388
01:12:14,880 --> 01:12:18,280
Speaker 4: his phone and this is what it said. Well, they

1389
01:12:18,280 --> 01:12:20,280
Speaker 4: don't give us the exact details, but there were like

1390
01:12:20,360 --> 01:12:25,040
Speaker 4: really violent fantasies, including thoughts of raping and killing people,

1391
01:12:25,520 --> 01:12:27,559
Speaker 4: like in his notes on his phone and his like

1392
01:12:27,680 --> 01:12:33,240
Speaker 4: iPhone geo, he had like super super racist views, paranoia

1393
01:12:33,280 --> 01:12:37,840
Speaker 4: and like massive anger issues. And there's no documented homophobia

1394
01:12:37,920 --> 01:12:40,160
Speaker 4: because I mean, he himself was in a relationship with

1395
01:12:40,200 --> 01:12:43,719
Speaker 4: a man, although co workers said that he had very

1396
01:12:44,280 --> 01:12:48,919
Speaker 4: very rude remarks about the girls, like it's very interesting. Wow,

1397
01:12:49,160 --> 01:12:53,519
Speaker 4: the internalized homophobia, right, it exists, it happens, it does.

1398
01:12:54,000 --> 01:12:56,800
Speaker 4: I mean, it's just crazy and and Okay, So then

1399
01:12:56,800 --> 01:12:59,200
Speaker 4: he wrote a suicide note and he blamed the he

1400
01:12:59,240 --> 01:13:02,839
Speaker 4: got fired, and he blamed his firing on lefty liberal

1401
01:13:02,880 --> 01:13:05,839
Speaker 4: bosses and complained about being let go for not working

1402
01:13:05,880 --> 01:13:09,000
Speaker 4: fast enough. He just was like a really angry person.

1403
01:13:09,680 --> 01:13:10,840
Speaker 4: I don't know, it's just very sad.

1404
01:13:12,160 --> 01:13:12,400
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1405
01:13:12,439 --> 01:13:15,760
Speaker 4: So anyway he's gone and the cases closed and so

1406
01:13:16,800 --> 01:13:18,439
Speaker 4: the good thing is is that they're not going to

1407
01:13:18,479 --> 01:13:21,040
Speaker 4: get justice, but you know, he offted himself.

1408
01:13:21,080 --> 01:13:23,599
Speaker 2: So Cyanara, you want to leave a talk back for

1409
01:13:23,840 --> 01:13:27,799
Speaker 2: any of the topics that we've covered tonight, please do

1410
01:13:27,920 --> 01:13:31,000
Speaker 2: just download the iHeart app and leave us a message

1411
01:13:31,080 --> 01:13:33,080
Speaker 2: just by pressing the top right hand corner.

1412
01:13:33,120 --> 01:13:35,960
Speaker 3: There's a little button, and we would love to hear

1413
01:13:35,960 --> 01:13:36,280
Speaker 3: from you.

1414
01:13:36,640 --> 01:13:39,679
Speaker 5: Absolutely do you know, one of my before we started

1415
01:13:39,680 --> 01:13:42,400
Speaker 5: this is true, before we started doing this show together,

1416
01:13:43,040 --> 01:13:45,960
Speaker 5: one of my favorite things I would watch and particularly

1417
01:13:45,960 --> 01:13:48,760
Speaker 5: to relax and have a good time was news bloopers.

1418
01:13:49,080 --> 01:13:52,200
Speaker 5: And since we have started this, my husband recently tried

1419
01:13:52,240 --> 01:13:55,160
Speaker 5: to show me. I'm like, I don't think that's funny anymore,

1420
01:13:55,200 --> 01:13:55,479
Speaker 5: and I.

1421
01:13:55,439 --> 01:14:03,160
Speaker 3: Don't sometimes we bloop What can I say? Those are

1422
01:14:03,160 --> 01:14:05,479
Speaker 3: pretty funny? Those are pretty good?

1423
01:14:05,640 --> 01:14:09,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, and you're perfect, Courtney Armstrong, don't you forget it?

1424
01:14:09,400 --> 01:14:12,280
Speaker 6: But forensics coming up with Joseph.

1425
01:14:11,840 --> 01:14:13,960
Speaker 2: Huh yeah, it's going to be a big unpack, so

1426
01:14:14,200 --> 01:14:17,120
Speaker 2: make sure we're also, you know, favor. There's nobody better

1427
01:14:17,160 --> 01:14:19,519
Speaker 2: on a Sunday than to listen to Joseph Scott Morgan

1428
01:14:20,000 --> 01:14:23,559
Speaker 2: talking through some of the scary forensics about the things

1429
01:14:23,560 --> 01:14:25,880
Speaker 2: that we talk about all week. So he'll be covering

1430
01:14:25,880 --> 01:14:26,799
Speaker 2: the biggest trials.

1431
01:14:26,800 --> 01:14:29,280
Speaker 4: And you say scary, but I say, like, when I

1432
01:14:29,360 --> 01:14:31,920
Speaker 4: understand something, it makes me feel better about it, Exactly

1433
01:14:32,439 --> 01:14:36,080
Speaker 4: when I understand like the science behind something, which is

1434
01:14:36,160 --> 01:14:38,720
Speaker 4: rare because I'm an idiot. But when I understand the

1435
01:14:38,760 --> 01:14:43,120
Speaker 4: science behind something, I suddenly feel like it's less scary

1436
01:14:44,040 --> 01:14:46,360
Speaker 4: because that makes some more in control, of course, a

1437
01:14:46,360 --> 01:14:50,040
Speaker 4: little more yeah, a little more knowledgeable. Like, I look, Courtney,

1438
01:14:50,080 --> 01:14:52,320
Speaker 4: you're talking about mistakes. I thought the bleaching of the

1439
01:14:52,320 --> 01:14:55,479
Speaker 4: bones was actual chemicals, but bleaching of the bones is

1440
01:14:55,479 --> 01:14:58,240
Speaker 4: the sun. Like, so you're the only one. You're the

1441
01:14:58,280 --> 01:14:59,080
Speaker 4: only one making meser.

1442
01:14:59,280 --> 01:15:01,519
Speaker 3: I thought it was talk about bleaching our teeth.

1443
01:15:02,000 --> 01:15:05,719
Speaker 2: That to the actual idiot of the group, so just FYI,

1444
01:15:05,960 --> 01:15:07,600
Speaker 2: I was like, huh, what do we What did the

1445
01:15:07,680 --> 01:15:08,200
Speaker 2: teeth say?

1446
01:15:08,320 --> 01:15:10,160
Speaker 3: It has nothing to do with your teeth, Stephanie.

1447
01:15:11,160 --> 01:15:12,759
Speaker 4: I just love when jokes is here because I always

1448
01:15:12,760 --> 01:15:14,400
Speaker 4: feel better about things when we're done.

1449
01:15:14,520 --> 01:15:18,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's and I think also, you know, with Jared

1450
01:15:18,560 --> 01:15:22,760
Speaker 5: earlier and with Catherine more recently, but earlier, just yeah,

1451
01:15:22,800 --> 01:15:26,000
Speaker 5: breaking things down and kind of understanding what goes on,

1452
01:15:26,120 --> 01:15:29,680
Speaker 5: whether it is behind the law or behind a documentary,

1453
01:15:30,200 --> 01:15:30,519
Speaker 5: it does.

1454
01:15:30,560 --> 01:15:32,719
Speaker 6: It just helps put things in their place.

1455
01:15:33,000 --> 01:15:36,360
Speaker 4: Many everything has a compartment, right, Yeah.

1456
01:15:36,520 --> 01:15:38,400
Speaker 3: And I think we like to organize things.

1457
01:15:38,479 --> 01:15:42,040
Speaker 2: I like to ze scary thoughts, yeah, and take sort

1458
01:15:42,080 --> 01:15:43,040
Speaker 2: of the power out of it.

1459
01:15:43,280 --> 01:15:44,960
Speaker 4: And I think that's why a lot of women are

1460
01:15:44,960 --> 01:15:48,840
Speaker 4: into true crime. Yes, because we can we can menialize

1461
01:15:48,880 --> 01:15:51,639
Speaker 4: those thoughts, those really scary thoughts because we're the ones

1462
01:15:51,640 --> 01:15:52,320
Speaker 4: at risk.

1463
01:15:52,720 --> 01:15:56,439
Speaker 5: And Steph and I have talked with many psychologists and

1464
01:15:57,120 --> 01:15:59,600
Speaker 5: social scientists about.

1465
01:15:59,200 --> 01:16:03,000
Speaker 6: That very fast. So it's a.

1466
01:16:02,920 --> 01:16:05,160
Speaker 2: Way of keeping us a little bit safe. I hate

1467
01:16:05,160 --> 01:16:06,800
Speaker 2: to say it, but that we are going to have

1468
01:16:06,840 --> 01:16:10,839
Speaker 2: to talk about ditty on Sunday because the closing arguments

1469
01:16:10,840 --> 01:16:13,439
Speaker 2: for the defense will be tomorrow, and you know, we

1470
01:16:13,520 --> 01:16:16,519
Speaker 2: won't be here tomorrow. It's Friday's our day off, so

1471
01:16:16,600 --> 01:16:20,160
Speaker 2: we're not here Friday, Saturday back on Sunday, so we

1472
01:16:20,240 --> 01:16:22,679
Speaker 2: will have a full update on that as well.

1473
01:16:22,920 --> 01:16:26,160
Speaker 3: Rest assured, ladies, what a wonderful night.

1474
01:16:26,560 --> 01:16:29,920
Speaker 2: As always, make sure you tune in Sundays, we're here

1475
01:16:30,040 --> 01:16:32,360
Speaker 2: live and again if you miss the broadcast, catch the

1476
01:16:32,400 --> 01:16:35,639
Speaker 2: podcast right after. This is true Crime tonight. We're talking

1477
01:16:35,720 --> 01:16:38,599
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. Have a great night, everybody,

1478
01:16:38,720 --> 01:16:48,800
Speaker 2: Stay safe.