WEBVTT - Do You Have to Be a Jerk to Succeed at Work? 0:00:03.560 --> 0:00:05.840 My colleagues will stop commenting on everything I get my 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:08.840 assistant roles at people and meeting Why does my coworker 0:00:08.920 --> 0:00:11.240 keep taking credit for all my ideas? Have any wisdom 0:00:11.280 --> 0:00:15.320 for me? Hi'm Alison Green. Welcome to the Aska Manager Podcast. 0:00:15.680 --> 0:00:19.520 Right answer questions from listeners about life at work, everything 0:00:19.520 --> 0:00:21.640 from what to say if you're allergic to your coworkers 0:00:21.640 --> 0:00:23.840 perfume to what to do if you drink too much 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:28.880 at the company party. Let's get started, Hi, and welcome 0:00:28.920 --> 0:00:31.640 to the show. Today. We have a bunch of shorter 0:00:31.760 --> 0:00:34.919 questions from people to answer, and our first question is 0:00:35.040 --> 0:00:37.640 from someone who is managing people for the first time 0:00:38.200 --> 0:00:41.080 and wondering what the hell she's supposed to talk about 0:00:41.080 --> 0:00:45.120 with them when she does one on one meetings. Hi, Allison, 0:00:45.600 --> 0:00:48.879 I'm a new department director, promoted to my position a 0:00:48.920 --> 0:00:52.040 little over a year ago. I manage a team of 0:00:52.080 --> 0:00:57.319 around fifteen, out of whom are direct report staff. When 0:00:57.360 --> 0:01:00.280 I took over this department, it was a train wreck, 0:01:00.800 --> 0:01:03.800 and even our company president would agree with that assessment. 0:01:04.760 --> 0:01:07.480 I've spent my time trying to get everything back on track, 0:01:07.880 --> 0:01:12.080 meeting deadlines and getting some more in depth regulatory training 0:01:12.160 --> 0:01:14.959 for all of us, and now I'm pleased to say 0:01:15.000 --> 0:01:18.840 that the department is significantly improved. We're moving in the 0:01:18.920 --> 0:01:22.440 same direction, deadlines are being met. I feel like I 0:01:22.480 --> 0:01:25.520 can take a step back and the entire department can 0:01:25.560 --> 0:01:29.760 take a breath. And one of your podcasts, The Talkative 0:01:29.800 --> 0:01:34.080 Intern from July eight, two thousand eighteen, you talked about 0:01:34.080 --> 0:01:37.560 the importance of regular one on one meetings with employees, 0:01:38.360 --> 0:01:41.119 and it was like someone turned the lights on for me. 0:01:41.920 --> 0:01:45.440 I haven't been doing that. You see, my background is 0:01:45.560 --> 0:01:48.920 project management, and this is the first time that I've 0:01:49.000 --> 0:01:53.960 managed humans. So I had to do an internet search 0:01:54.000 --> 0:01:57.320 about what these meetings should look like, and of course 0:01:57.440 --> 0:02:03.880 I started with ask a manager. I literally have no idea. 0:02:04.320 --> 0:02:07.440 So I went ahead and started these meetings this week, 0:02:07.640 --> 0:02:10.880 even though I'm still fumbling in the dark sum But 0:02:10.919 --> 0:02:13.960 I would love your thoughts on what a typical check 0:02:13.960 --> 0:02:17.840 in meeting would look like. About how long should it last? 0:02:18.560 --> 0:02:21.320 Is there a standard length of time that we should 0:02:21.400 --> 0:02:24.520 spend in these meetings? Is there anything that should be 0:02:24.560 --> 0:02:29.040 covered in every single meeting with each employee? Is there 0:02:29.080 --> 0:02:32.840 a good standard on frequency or does that totally depend 0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:36.680 on your staff and your business and what everyone does 0:02:36.840 --> 0:02:41.520 and what projects you have going on, etcetera, etcetera. I've 0:02:41.600 --> 0:02:45.680 learned so much about managing employees since i started listening 0:02:45.720 --> 0:02:48.639 to the podcast and reading your blog, and so I'm 0:02:48.720 --> 0:02:53.840 really looking forward to your input on these very important meetings. Thanks. 0:02:55.480 --> 0:02:58.520 I'm really excited to get this question because doing check 0:02:58.560 --> 0:03:01.720 in meetings well. Doing them well can make a huge 0:03:01.720 --> 0:03:04.880 difference and how effectively you're managing your team and how 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:07.960 much your employees themselves feel like they're on track. I 0:03:08.040 --> 0:03:10.160 know it might not sound like the most exciting topic 0:03:10.240 --> 0:03:12.840 to people listening, but I think it kind of is 0:03:12.919 --> 0:03:17.480 because doing these right can be the entire backbone of management. 0:03:17.520 --> 0:03:21.440 It's really really key, and so many people don't really 0:03:21.480 --> 0:03:24.440 do them effectively if they do them at all. The 0:03:24.600 --> 0:03:27.799 idea is that having a regular time to touch base 0:03:27.880 --> 0:03:30.000 one and one with each of your staff people about 0:03:30.040 --> 0:03:32.720 their work keeps you both focused on the results that 0:03:32.720 --> 0:03:35.200 they're getting and creates a place for you to check 0:03:35.240 --> 0:03:38.040 on how projects are coming, serve as a resource to them, 0:03:38.520 --> 0:03:42.920 agree in priorities, and give feedback. They're really your core 0:03:43.200 --> 0:03:46.480 forum for management. They're the primary place where you do 0:03:46.520 --> 0:03:50.720 the work of managing. You asked how often to have them. 0:03:50.800 --> 0:03:54.120 For most people, meeting weekly works well, but if you 0:03:54.200 --> 0:03:56.760 have more experienced staffers, or if you have people whose 0:03:56.760 --> 0:04:00.000 work just doesn't require weekly conversation, you could do every 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:03.080 other week most of the time, though I wouldn't do 0:04:03.240 --> 0:04:06.920 less frequently than every other week, and usually they're going 0:04:06.960 --> 0:04:09.440 to be thirty to sixty minutes somewhere in there. I 0:04:09.440 --> 0:04:11.800 would start in the beginning scheduling them for an hour 0:04:12.080 --> 0:04:14.520 and see how they go. If you keep finding that 0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:16.440 you don't need that much time, you can always cut 0:04:16.440 --> 0:04:20.280 them down. And something that's really key is always use 0:04:20.320 --> 0:04:23.039 an agenda so that you're both clear ahead of time 0:04:23.120 --> 0:04:25.880 and how you're going to be using the time. You 0:04:25.920 --> 0:04:29.080 can ask your employee to prepare that agenda and send 0:04:29.120 --> 0:04:31.440 it to you ahead of time, and you can ask 0:04:31.520 --> 0:04:34.600 that it includes specific sections each week, so things like 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:38.600 a section for key project updates, a section for priorities 0:04:38.600 --> 0:04:40.800 for the coming week, a section for items that need 0:04:40.839 --> 0:04:43.640 your feedback, a section for anything that the person is 0:04:43.640 --> 0:04:47.320 waiting on you for. And then don't just use their agenda, 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:49.720 I mean use it, but add your own things to it. 0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:52.200 Jot down your own items that you want to raise, 0:04:52.760 --> 0:04:55.280 and actually before the meeting it's a really good idea 0:04:55.320 --> 0:04:57.480 to just take a few minutes and kind of reflect, 0:04:57.600 --> 0:05:00.560 ask yourself, what are you the most war worried about 0:05:00.680 --> 0:05:03.119 as it relates to this person or to their work. 0:05:03.480 --> 0:05:05.479 What do you really want to use the time to 0:05:05.480 --> 0:05:09.320 focus on. It sounds obvious, but making yourself do that 0:05:09.360 --> 0:05:11.640 every time can make sure that you're focusing on the 0:05:11.720 --> 0:05:16.080 right things. For example, you might realize one day, Oh, 0:05:16.120 --> 0:05:19.279 the thing that I'm most worried about in Jane's realm 0:05:19.800 --> 0:05:21.800 is the question of what more we need to do 0:05:21.880 --> 0:05:24.880 to generate ticket sales for our upcoming event. So I 0:05:24.920 --> 0:05:27.600 want to spend some time with her brainstorming other approaches 0:05:27.640 --> 0:05:31.560 we could use. Or you might realize Jane has seemed 0:05:31.600 --> 0:05:34.640 kind of off her normally very good game lately, so 0:05:34.680 --> 0:05:36.520 I want to ask her if she's doing okay and 0:05:36.640 --> 0:05:38.839 if there's anything going on that I can support her with. 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:42.240 So it might be the stuff that you're most worried 0:05:42.240 --> 0:05:44.279 about that you most want to talk about, might be 0:05:44.760 --> 0:05:46.920 the day to day work, or it might be something 0:05:46.960 --> 0:05:48.840 a little bit more big picture when you step back 0:05:48.839 --> 0:05:52.279 and really think about it. It's also helpful to keep 0:05:52.279 --> 0:05:54.640 a running list throughout the week of things that you 0:05:54.640 --> 0:05:56.800 want to raise at the check in, which could be 0:05:56.920 --> 0:05:58.600 like a piece of feedback that you want to give, 0:05:58.880 --> 0:06:01.719 or a reminder to yourself that the staff person was 0:06:01.760 --> 0:06:03.840 supposed to check into topic X, but you haven't heard 0:06:03.839 --> 0:06:05.479 any update, and so you want to follow up on 0:06:05.520 --> 0:06:08.560 it or so forth. By keeping a running list all 0:06:08.560 --> 0:06:11.000 week long, that way, you won't forget anything when the 0:06:11.040 --> 0:06:13.480 check in comes around, and you also won't be bugging 0:06:13.520 --> 0:06:16.400 people throughout the week about things that can wait for 0:06:16.440 --> 0:06:19.919 your time together, and that can be helpful in making 0:06:19.920 --> 0:06:21.880 sure that people don't feel like you're sort of hovering. 0:06:23.080 --> 0:06:25.880 I would also consider having a section on the agenda 0:06:26.080 --> 0:06:29.080 for reflecting on what has gone well recently and what 0:06:29.080 --> 0:06:31.960 could have gone better, and you can ask the employee 0:06:32.000 --> 0:06:33.600 to bring their own thoughts on that. You can make 0:06:33.640 --> 0:06:35.640 it part of the agenda that you're using every week. 0:06:35.960 --> 0:06:37.880 You can ask them to come prepared to share their 0:06:37.920 --> 0:06:41.000 thoughts on that, and you'll offer your own. And doing 0:06:41.080 --> 0:06:44.240 that is so useful because it makes feedback just a normal, 0:06:44.440 --> 0:06:47.920 regular part of your meetings, and it's super helpful. When 0:06:47.960 --> 0:06:51.040 you normalize feedback like that, it doesn't feel so scary 0:06:51.040 --> 0:06:54.119 to people, and you ensure that there's this constant flow 0:06:54.360 --> 0:06:57.159 of both positive and developmental feedback, which is a really 0:06:57.200 --> 0:07:00.360 awesome thing to have. Now, what you don't what to 0:07:00.400 --> 0:07:02.880 do with these meetings is have them turn into just 0:07:03.000 --> 0:07:05.719 a big list of project updates where the person just 0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:08.320 runs down everything they're working on and where it stands, 0:07:08.400 --> 0:07:11.600 and then the meeting ends. The point of these meetings 0:07:11.640 --> 0:07:14.000 is not to make the person document where their time 0:07:14.000 --> 0:07:16.960 went that week. It's to see how the person is 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:21.840 progressing towards their big goals, ask probing questions, spot any 0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:25.280 areas of concern, serve as a resource to them, help 0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:30.640 problem solve if needed, help balance priorities, debrief projects, and 0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:34.120 give feedback. So make sure that you're not letting these 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:36.840 just turn into like a report on how the person 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:38.680 spent their time in the last week. That's not what 0:07:38.720 --> 0:07:42.080 you're doing here. And actually you can even ask people 0:07:42.120 --> 0:07:44.800 to include short, bulleted updates in the agenda that they 0:07:44.840 --> 0:07:47.080 send you ahead of time, so that you can read 0:07:47.120 --> 0:07:49.680 those before the meeting, and then that way that's out 0:07:49.680 --> 0:07:51.520 of the way and you can spend your face to 0:07:51.600 --> 0:07:55.840 face time on the stuff that really requires conversation. And 0:07:55.880 --> 0:07:57.840 then I'm also going to point you to my book 0:07:57.880 --> 0:08:00.160 and management, because there is a whole chapter in are 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:01.880 on how to do check in meetings. Well. So the 0:08:01.880 --> 0:08:05.320 book is called Managing to Change the World, The Nonprofit 0:08:05.360 --> 0:08:08.160 Manager's Guide to Getting Results, and as you can tell 0:08:08.160 --> 0:08:11.080 by the title, it is written for nonprofit managers, but 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:14.520 like of what's in there is going to apply in 0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:17.440 any sector, so hopefully that will be a good resource too. 0:08:18.800 --> 0:08:30.800 We will take a quick break here and come right back. Hi, Alison. 0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:33.320 First off, thank you for your great podcast on work 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:36.360 questions in the like. I found myself off in relating 0:08:36.400 --> 0:08:37.960 to a lot of the issues that come up in 0:08:38.000 --> 0:08:40.120 somewhere or another, and it has definitely helped me navigate 0:08:40.120 --> 0:08:43.240 my office culture, so thank you. I wanted to email 0:08:43.240 --> 0:08:45.320 you about an issue that has come up often in 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:48.120 my career in regards to doing the right thing. I'm 0:08:48.120 --> 0:08:50.000 a late twenties male who has been working in a 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:53.480 technical environment for the entirety of my career. I don't 0:08:53.480 --> 0:08:55.160 know if it has just been the companies that I've 0:08:55.160 --> 0:08:57.880 worked for, but there seems to be a prevailing issue 0:08:58.200 --> 0:09:01.480 of image versus actions in guards to people's behavior when 0:09:01.520 --> 0:09:04.880 working in an office environment. When things go wrong, which 0:09:04.880 --> 0:09:08.240 they inevitably will, because nobody is perfect, there tends to 0:09:08.240 --> 0:09:10.480 be a flurry of finger pointing and claims of innocence 0:09:10.480 --> 0:09:14.200 with no accountability of the issue. Accountability has brought up 0:09:14.240 --> 0:09:16.400 a lot, and what I mean by accountability is the 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:19.600 person holding themselves accountable for their own quality of work. 0:09:20.160 --> 0:09:22.319 I find myself to be a person with integrity who 0:09:22.320 --> 0:09:24.880 does not like throwing people under the bus. I will 0:09:24.920 --> 0:09:28.080 also readily admit when I have made a mistake. The 0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:29.760 thing I have an issue with is that if I'm 0:09:29.760 --> 0:09:31.880 the only one who does these things, I end up 0:09:31.920 --> 0:09:34.199 looking like a screw up instead of building a reputation 0:09:34.200 --> 0:09:38.360 as someone who is honest with themselves. Even worse, those 0:09:38.400 --> 0:09:41.680 with machavelli in tendencies can achieve a lot before someone 0:09:42.000 --> 0:09:44.840 sees the person behind the curtain if at all, and 0:09:44.840 --> 0:09:47.160 will steamroll over people like me if I wait for 0:09:47.200 --> 0:09:49.680 the higher ups to quote unquote see through what is happening. 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:53.120 Office environments are full of these types of people who 0:09:53.160 --> 0:09:55.439 will kick and claw and tear others down to look 0:09:55.520 --> 0:09:58.520 useful to their boss or others. I want to succeed, 0:09:58.559 --> 0:10:00.120 but I want to do so honestly, and I want 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:02.360 to earn it. Am I just not cut out for 0:10:02.400 --> 0:10:06.600 working in an office. Thanks. I wish I knew what 0:10:06.720 --> 0:10:09.800 field you work in, because I don't actually think that 0:10:09.840 --> 0:10:13.120 this is typical. There are certainly people everywhere who are 0:10:13.160 --> 0:10:15.880 just out for themselves and who are willing to step 0:10:15.880 --> 0:10:19.280 on other people in order to advance, but they usually 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:22.800 stand out as pretty unusual. They're not typically the majority 0:10:22.840 --> 0:10:26.080 of people in an office, unless you're in a dysfunctional 0:10:26.200 --> 0:10:30.839 office or a dysfunctional field. So I'm very curious about 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:34.319 what work you do, because some fields are definitely more 0:10:34.400 --> 0:10:38.200 populated by jerks than others. But so often this kind 0:10:38.200 --> 0:10:41.560 of behavior is because the organization's culture allows it. You 0:10:41.679 --> 0:10:47.080 don't find it in offices that prioritize transparency and integrity 0:10:47.160 --> 0:10:51.000 and where leaders are modeling those things themselves. If I 0:10:51.040 --> 0:10:53.400 were in your shoes, I would try to get a 0:10:53.480 --> 0:10:57.280 read on is this just your industry or have you 0:10:57.320 --> 0:11:00.880 worked at particularly bad companies. One way to do that 0:11:00.960 --> 0:11:02.920 is to seek out a mentor someone who works in 0:11:02.960 --> 0:11:05.080 your field but is a bit more experience than you 0:11:05.800 --> 0:11:08.160 and talk to them about what you're seeing. Ask if 0:11:08.160 --> 0:11:09.800 they think it's just the nature of the work that 0:11:09.840 --> 0:11:12.880 you're doing, or if it sounds off to them, or 0:11:12.920 --> 0:11:14.959 if you have friends who also work in your field 0:11:15.080 --> 0:11:17.800 at different companies, you can bounce this off them as well. 0:11:18.480 --> 0:11:21.679 My hunch is that it's about the companies that you've 0:11:21.720 --> 0:11:25.000 been at. You said you're late twenties, so that's probably 0:11:25.000 --> 0:11:28.120 something like one to three companies, I'm guessing, and that's 0:11:28.120 --> 0:11:31.240 not a huge sample size to draw conclusions based off of. 0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:33.640 But certainly by the time you're seeing it for the 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:36.800 third time in a row, you're naturally going to start 0:11:36.840 --> 0:11:39.920 to wonder. So talk to someone who's in the same field, 0:11:40.360 --> 0:11:42.560 who has a more senior vantage point on it, and 0:11:42.600 --> 0:11:46.480 see what they say. But to answer your broader question, no, 0:11:46.840 --> 0:11:49.760 this is not just the way offices work. It might 0:11:49.760 --> 0:11:52.120 be the way your offices have worked so far, but 0:11:52.160 --> 0:11:55.160 it's not a normal thing. So the next time that 0:11:55.200 --> 0:11:58.480 your job searching, I would really dig into the culture 0:11:58.760 --> 0:12:01.079 of anywhere that you're can that are in taking a job, 0:12:01.120 --> 0:12:06.160 and really prioritize cultures that do emphasize transparency and learning 0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:09.080 from mistakes, and try to talk to people who work 0:12:09.120 --> 0:12:11.160 there before you take your next job so that you 0:12:11.160 --> 0:12:13.320 can figure out if it's just going to be the 0:12:13.400 --> 0:12:17.040 same thing all over again. And actually, one other thing 0:12:17.120 --> 0:12:19.640 that can help with this is having a really good 0:12:19.679 --> 0:12:24.160 relationship with your manager. I would really lean into developing that, 0:12:24.280 --> 0:12:28.000 like building trust and credibility with your boss, because that 0:12:28.040 --> 0:12:31.600 will pay off in two different ways. One, you say 0:12:31.640 --> 0:12:34.000 that you feel like being really upfront about your mistakes 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:36.600 is making you look like you're a screw up because 0:12:36.640 --> 0:12:38.600 no one else is doing it. But if you have 0:12:38.679 --> 0:12:41.680 a really good, strong relationship with your boss, that is 0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:44.360 less likely to happen because your boss will know you 0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:47.040 and will know that you're very upfront about that kind 0:12:47.040 --> 0:12:50.080 of thing, and if they're at all a decent boss, 0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:53.160 they should respect or at least understand that. And then 0:12:53.200 --> 0:12:54.960 the second way that it can help is if you 0:12:55.000 --> 0:12:58.520 develop a good enough for poor with your boss, potentially 0:12:58.600 --> 0:13:01.280 you can ask her about this too, and she will 0:13:01.280 --> 0:13:04.640 be really well positioned to talk to you with much 0:13:04.679 --> 0:13:07.320 more nuanced than I can about what you're seeing in 0:13:07.360 --> 0:13:10.560 your company and whether you're reading it right. So I 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:16.120 would really work on building that relationship. Good luck. Okay, 0:13:16.160 --> 0:13:20.520 here is our next question. Hi, Alison, thanks so much 0:13:20.559 --> 0:13:24.240 for taking my question. I am a teacher who started 0:13:24.240 --> 0:13:27.600 a new program with another teacher last year. We worked 0:13:27.600 --> 0:13:30.800 together really well and we're generally thought to be successful 0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:34.600 by the administrator supervising the program. There is one issue 0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:36.680 I had, though, that I'm curious about how you would 0:13:36.720 --> 0:13:41.160 suggest I approach. Part of this program requires frequent record 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:45.160 keeping about his progress. One agreement that my colleague and 0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:47.000 I came to is that we would split up the 0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:49.840 work to make it easier to great students and to 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:53.679 keep up with all the paperwork. However, my colleague often 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:56.560 waited over a month to update his share of the paperwork. 0:13:57.160 --> 0:13:59.120 At one point I offered to do it if he 0:13:59.200 --> 0:14:01.880 was having trouble peping up with it, but he insisted 0:14:01.920 --> 0:14:03.839 that he could do it and wanted to handle it 0:14:04.120 --> 0:14:06.320 and didn't want to place an unfair burden on me. 0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:09.760 I also feel a little weird about continuing to make 0:14:09.800 --> 0:14:13.520 that offer, as I'm worried about gender dynamics. I'm a woman, 0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:16.520 he's a man, and I know often in these situations 0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:19.600 women get stuck with the clerical work. On the other hand, 0:14:19.800 --> 0:14:22.440 to measure our progress, it's important that the records are 0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:25.040 kept up to date, and I'd rather do it myself 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:27.600 and have access to the information we need than to 0:14:27.680 --> 0:14:30.920 wait for him. We're about to finish our training process, 0:14:30.920 --> 0:14:33.360 with our new set of students, and I'm worried about 0:14:33.400 --> 0:14:36.840 this happening again once the paperwork increases. The hope and 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:39.880 goal is that our program is going to expand, which 0:14:39.920 --> 0:14:42.440 means that the record keeping will only get more intense. 0:14:43.080 --> 0:14:45.880 We don't have hard deadlines for this, which I think 0:14:46.000 --> 0:14:48.000 maybe makes him feel like it's fine if he puts 0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:50.960 it off. However, there is an expectation that we are 0:14:51.040 --> 0:14:53.440 keeping our records up to date in a timely fashion. 0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:56.600 Am I being a control freak about this? How do 0:14:56.640 --> 0:14:58.760 you suggest I approach him about it again? Since the 0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:03.720 last time I tried I wasn't successful. I do not 0:15:03.760 --> 0:15:05.960 think you're being a control freak about it. It sounds 0:15:05.960 --> 0:15:08.800 like the record keeping has to be done. I think 0:15:08.800 --> 0:15:10.960 it's good, though, that he did not take you up 0:15:10.960 --> 0:15:13.320 in your offer to do it for him, because he 0:15:13.360 --> 0:15:16.240 really should be doing it himself, and because you're right 0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:19.800 about the gender dynamics where women often step in and 0:15:19.880 --> 0:15:22.800 do more than their share of the sort of office 0:15:22.840 --> 0:15:27.120 housekeeping type work, because we're socialized to care about it 0:15:27.160 --> 0:15:29.240 more and to be bothered by it more when it's 0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:33.040 not done, and to be somewhat comfortable with just stepping 0:15:33.120 --> 0:15:35.480 up and doing it so that it is done, even 0:15:35.520 --> 0:15:38.920 if we're annoyed that we have to do it. So, yeah, 0:15:38.960 --> 0:15:41.120 it's not good for anyone when you step in and 0:15:41.160 --> 0:15:44.600 do that because someone else isn't pulling their weight. The 0:15:44.760 --> 0:15:49.080 exception to that can be if you agree upfront to 0:15:49.200 --> 0:15:53.000 divide the work that way, and in exchange he takes 0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:56.840 on something roughly equivalent in terms of time and energy 0:15:56.880 --> 0:16:00.520 that you would prefer not to do. But even then 0:16:00.760 --> 0:16:02.320 you have to be careful that you don't get the 0:16:02.320 --> 0:16:04.840 short end of the stick there, because if the thing 0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:08.200 that he takes on in exchange is more high profile 0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:12.480 or is seen as more valuable, then you're at a disadvantage, 0:16:12.560 --> 0:16:15.600 even if you would otherwise be pretty happy with the arrangement. 0:16:15.760 --> 0:16:19.720 So it's important to think about that aspect of it too. Anyway, 0:16:19.720 --> 0:16:21.800 as far as what to do here, I think you've 0:16:21.800 --> 0:16:24.880 got to get really clear in your own mind about 0:16:24.920 --> 0:16:27.720 exactly what the impact is on you if he doesn't 0:16:27.720 --> 0:16:31.040 do the paperwork in a timely way, if it's mainly 0:16:31.120 --> 0:16:34.360 annoying but doesn't actually have a real impact on you 0:16:34.400 --> 0:16:36.960 and your ability to do your job. I would try 0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:40.240 very hard to let that go, and believe me, I 0:16:40.280 --> 0:16:43.040 am all about being annoyed by things that are just 0:16:43.120 --> 0:16:46.320 annoying on principle but don't actually affect me. So I 0:16:46.360 --> 0:16:48.360 would get it if that was what was happening, But 0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:51.280 you would be better off forcing your brain to accept 0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:54.360 that it's not your problem to solve. But it doesn't 0:16:54.400 --> 0:16:56.600 sound like that's the case from what you're saying. It 0:16:56.680 --> 0:16:59.200 sounds like you really do need his records up to 0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:03.680 date because need access to that information. If that is correct, 0:17:03.920 --> 0:17:06.920 then that's the piece of this to focus on. Now. 0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:09.240 When you talk to him last time, it's not clear 0:17:09.280 --> 0:17:11.600 to me if you talked through why this is a 0:17:11.640 --> 0:17:14.840 problem and how it's impacting you, or if you just 0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:17.240 made the offer to take it off his plate. Form. 0:17:17.280 --> 0:17:19.560 My hunch is that you might have focused more on 0:17:19.600 --> 0:17:22.439 that second piece, just offering to do it, because that 0:17:22.600 --> 0:17:25.600 is often what people do. So I would go to 0:17:25.680 --> 0:17:28.640 him this time and say something like, you know, last 0:17:28.720 --> 0:17:30.960 year I had trouble getting information like X, Y, and 0:17:31.040 --> 0:17:34.320 Z because you aren't updating on our records very frequently, 0:17:34.440 --> 0:17:36.600 and I really want to be able to do blank. 0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:39.840 So can we agree that we'll both update at least 0:17:39.880 --> 0:17:42.560 every week or whatever? I'm just making up a time 0:17:42.560 --> 0:17:46.040 period there, but whatever makes sense. The idea is to 0:17:46.119 --> 0:17:49.280 be really clear about why it matters, what the impact 0:17:49.359 --> 0:17:51.560 is if he doesn't do it, so that it doesn't 0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:55.200 sound like you just care about paperwork for paperwork's sake. 0:17:56.119 --> 0:17:59.159 And I say that because when you're someone who is 0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:01.680 really on top of the stuff and you're nudging someone 0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:04.679 who isn't, there can be this dynamic where it starts 0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:07.880 to feel to both of you like you're just the nag. 0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:09.879 You know, you're just nagging the other person to do 0:18:09.960 --> 0:18:12.959 some pitoly thing that you only care about because you 0:18:13.000 --> 0:18:16.240 love order and you love paperwork. So the more that 0:18:16.359 --> 0:18:19.200 you can ground this in the actual impact that it's 0:18:19.200 --> 0:18:22.280 having on you or on your students, the better. And 0:18:22.320 --> 0:18:24.479 then if he agrees to that but still ends up 0:18:24.480 --> 0:18:26.720 not doing it, then you can approach him about it 0:18:26.760 --> 0:18:30.280 again at that point and again ground it in the impact. 0:18:30.480 --> 0:18:33.240 So at that point you could say something like, hey, 0:18:33.320 --> 0:18:36.000 I was looking for X piece of information yesterday and 0:18:36.000 --> 0:18:38.359 I couldn't find it. Could you get your records up 0:18:38.359 --> 0:18:40.440 to date sometime this week so that I've got access 0:18:40.480 --> 0:18:44.639 to that stuff? So again it's not do this because 0:18:44.640 --> 0:18:46.520 you're supposed to be on top of it, even though 0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:50.600 that's true, it's do this because it's causing this specific 0:18:50.680 --> 0:18:52.760 work related issue that we need to take care of. 0:18:54.119 --> 0:18:56.400 We'll do one ware break here and come right back. 0:19:04.840 --> 0:19:07.840 This next color is someone who wanted to respond to 0:19:08.000 --> 0:19:11.119 a previous episode of the show, the episode called My 0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:13.639 Boss is a Jerk to Me, where the color on 0:19:13.680 --> 0:19:16.840 that show had a boss who was really snippy with 0:19:16.880 --> 0:19:20.600 her and constantly seemed frustrated with her. The person we're 0:19:20.640 --> 0:19:23.359 about to hear from is a manager who feels like 0:19:23.400 --> 0:19:26.480 she's in that situation, but from the boss's side, she 0:19:26.840 --> 0:19:31.640 is the boss who is annoyed with her employee. Hi, Allison, 0:19:31.720 --> 0:19:33.760 I want to start by saying I just discovered this 0:19:33.800 --> 0:19:36.480 podcast and I love it. I have many questions that 0:19:36.480 --> 0:19:38.240 I will get to email into you, but I wanted 0:19:38.280 --> 0:19:40.440 to start with some feedback from the My Boss is 0:19:40.480 --> 0:19:43.400 a Jerk to the episode. While I don't condone being 0:19:43.440 --> 0:19:45.879 snappy or short with someone, I have to share that 0:19:45.920 --> 0:19:49.200 I'm sharing a sort of similar experience from the boss's side. 0:19:49.800 --> 0:19:52.560 I'm sort of a manager slash supervisor to the person 0:19:52.600 --> 0:19:56.240 who filled my last position. I've explained many times since 0:19:56.280 --> 0:19:59.200 you started, and during the interview process that the site 0:19:59.240 --> 0:20:01.880 has not done a good out of documenting job processes. 0:20:02.240 --> 0:20:04.960 But I tried documenting as much as I can while 0:20:04.960 --> 0:20:07.680 I was doing this position, which was a lot. I'm 0:20:07.720 --> 0:20:10.480 pointing her in the direction of those to learn, but 0:20:10.640 --> 0:20:14.960 also explaining things that are not documented and encouraging her 0:20:15.000 --> 0:20:18.120 to edit the script or create a new one. Take 0:20:18.160 --> 0:20:20.480 as many notes as possible so that it makes sense 0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:22.960 to you the next time you do it. Review the 0:20:23.000 --> 0:20:25.560 notes you took a day or two after you completed 0:20:25.600 --> 0:20:29.679 the tests, refer to them when something similar happens. No 0:20:29.720 --> 0:20:32.879 matter what, though, I'm getting the same exact questions about 0:20:33.000 --> 0:20:35.639 things that are simple and that I would have expected 0:20:35.640 --> 0:20:39.240 her to learn by now. One interaction that stands out 0:20:39.280 --> 0:20:42.120 to me is that after her return from a vacation day, 0:20:42.520 --> 0:20:44.719 she stopped in my office. When she got in and 0:20:44.760 --> 0:20:47.920 asked me what I wanted her to do. It wasn't 0:20:47.960 --> 0:20:50.080 the end of the month or anything where we would 0:20:50.080 --> 0:20:53.879