Speaker 1: Colson Media.
Speaker 2: Hey everybody, Robert Evans here and I wanted to let
Speaker 2: you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode
Speaker 2: of the week that just happened is here in one
Speaker 2: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to
Speaker 2: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If
Speaker 2: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,
Speaker 2: there's going to be nothing new here for you, but
Speaker 2: you can make your own decisions.
Speaker 3: Hello, and welcome to it could happen here. My name
Speaker 3: is Dona el kurd I, am a researcher and analyst
Speaker 3: of Arab and Palestinian politics. I'm recording this on May nineteenth,
Speaker 3: twenty twenty six, and this past weekend, May fifteenth was
Speaker 3: Nekba Day. Nakba is the Arabic word for catastrophe, and
Speaker 3: Nekba Day commemorates when close to a million Palestinians were
Speaker 3: expelled in nineteen forty eight with the founding of the
Speaker 3: Israeli state, so the Palestinian Catastrophe. Hundreds of villages and
Speaker 3: towns were destroyed, and many Palestinians were made refugees in
Speaker 3: camps around the new state. In Gaza, West Bank, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon,
Speaker 3: and farther afield. Within Israel, Palestinians who somehow managed to
Speaker 3: remain were put under a military rule. As the past
Speaker 3: fewers have demonstrated, and as many Palestinians will tell you, this,
Speaker 3: Nekba never ended. Usually I use this podcast to discuss
Speaker 3: current events or to interview someone who is an expert
Speaker 3: on a dynamic I'm interested in and I think is
Speaker 3: useful for people to hear. But today I'm going to
Speaker 3: be doing something a little different and outside my comfort zone.
Speaker 3: I'm going to share my personal family history and Arnakba story.
Speaker 3: I'm a Palestinian from Jerusalem. Both sides, my mom and
Speaker 3: my dad are from Jerusalem, and I was born there.
Speaker 3: Usually when people ask me where I'm from and I
Speaker 3: say that, they just assume East Jerusalem because that's where
Speaker 3: Palestinians have been sequestered today. They were driven out of
Speaker 3: West Jerusalem nineteen forty eight, but actually some of my
Speaker 3: family were from the western side of the city. My
Speaker 3: paternal grandmother and her family lost their home in West
Speaker 3: Jerusalem in nineteen forty eight. My grandmother ended up spending
Speaker 3: three years in akoby Jab at refugee camp outside of
Speaker 3: Jericho because my great grandfather had been wounded trying to
Speaker 3: defend the city and they were waiting to see if
Speaker 3: they could return. My grandmother has told me details about
Speaker 3: this time. She talked about the makeshift school in the
Speaker 3: camp that only went up to the eighth grade, So
Speaker 3: my grandmother repeated the year a couple of times and
Speaker 3: then eventually dropped out of school because she couldn't continue
Speaker 3: past the eighth grade. Now, the rest of her siblings,
Speaker 3: especially upon their return to Jerusalem, were all fully educated
Speaker 3: as adults. Many of them held advanced degrees. My grandmother
Speaker 3: was the only one, as the eldest, who had paid
Speaker 3: the price of displacement in this way. She was trained
Speaker 3: as a seamstress later on, but always lamented that she
Speaker 3: had to leave school early. She also told me about
Speaker 3: her how in Bah, which is in West Jerusalem neighborhood
Speaker 3: in West Jerusalem before it was taken during the Nekba.
Speaker 3: This was a newer neighborhood with nice views of the city,
Speaker 3: where middle class Palsainian families were expanding their homes as
Speaker 3: their families expanded. My grandmother's family had only moved into
Speaker 3: this house two months prior to the Nekba, and she
Speaker 3: used to tell me how the house had been newly
Speaker 3: painted and it was made of beautiful stones. Before she
Speaker 3: passed away, she would often cry over this house as
Speaker 3: if it had just been taken. That house, by the way,
Speaker 3: still stands in West Jerusalem. The last time I visited Palestine,
Speaker 3: and my grandmother's younger siblings showed me pictures of themselves
Speaker 3: posing in front of their house, now occupied by Israelis.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 3: My grandmother's story is very typical, but also very lucky
Speaker 3: because her and her family they did become refugees, yes,
Speaker 3: but they found their way back to the city. Most
Speaker 3: Palestinians were never able to return back to their hometowns.
Speaker 3: They were lucky in that sense that they had property
Speaker 3: and family in other parts of the city on the
Speaker 3: eastern side, and they were able to continue. We were
Speaker 3: able to continue. That's how I was born in Jerusalem
Speaker 3: myself because of that. Look. Now, on my maternal side,
Speaker 3: I don't know as much about them and their neck
Speaker 3: of a story. I left Palestine when I was a child.
Speaker 3: I don't have a close relationship with the mother's side
Speaker 3: of the family, and they harbor a lot of secrets.
Speaker 3: I never knew much about their histories and their dramas.
Speaker 3: My maternal grandmother is divorced and the family had fractured
Speaker 3: in particular ways, so there was a lot of touchiness.
Speaker 3: Many parts of the family were estranged from each other.
Speaker 3: One thing I did eventually find out when I was
Speaker 3: a teenager was that my mother's grandmother, so my great grandmother,
Speaker 3: was actually Israeli. This was my mother's paternal grandmother, her dad,
Speaker 3: that she no longer had a relationship with because of
Speaker 3: her parents' divorce, and I didn't have much information beyond
Speaker 3: that I knew her name Rachel, but nobody really wanted
Speaker 3: to talk about this Israeli great grandmother. It was also
Speaker 3: an uncomfortable finding for me at the time because I'm
Speaker 3: a past Indian from Jerusalem. The only Israelis I had
Speaker 3: ever engaged with at that point were soldiers, so I
Speaker 3: didn't press the subject. It was just another family secret
Speaker 3: we didn't talk about. When I got older, I got
Speaker 3: more curious about this and I asked for more information,
Speaker 3: and I asked my dad to confirm whether this was true,
Speaker 3: that my mother did in fact had an Israeli grandmother,
Speaker 3: Like this wasn't just a rumor. And he said he
Speaker 3: had met her himself. In fact, he had met her
Speaker 3: while I was a toddler, apparently, and I had met her,
Speaker 3: though of course I had no recollection. My dad says
Speaker 3: that during her visit to my mother's family, so this
Speaker 3: would be Rachel's grandchildren and then her daughter in law,
Speaker 3: there had been some argument and they had harangued her
Speaker 3: over the actions of her state and her state's military,
Speaker 3: and according to my dad, she replied that it had
Speaker 3: nothing to do with her because she came during the
Speaker 3: British Mandate era, she was classified as a past Indian Jew.
Speaker 3: And he told me as much of the story as
Speaker 3: he had been told. Rachel was a Polish Jewish woman.
Speaker 3: She came to Palestine. She married my great grandfather, who,
Speaker 3: by my father's description, was kind of a wealthy Palestinian
Speaker 3: playboy type.
Speaker 5: They had two.
Speaker 3: Children, and in nineteen forty eight, when Israel was founded
Speaker 3: and Palestinians were ethnically cleansed, my great grandmother and great
Speaker 3: grandfather split up. What my dad understood to have happened
Speaker 3: was Rachel left, her children joined her new countrymen.
Speaker 6: And that was that.
Speaker 3: So, as I said, Jerusalem was split up. The western
Speaker 3: side was cleared of its Palestinians. There was an armistice
Speaker 3: line where actually the newfound Israeli state housed recent Arab
Speaker 3: Jewish migrants sort of as cannon fodder. One of those
Speaker 3: neighborhoods where Arab Jews were replaced later birth the Israeli
Speaker 3: Black Panthers. And then the western side was under Israeli
Speaker 3: rule and Palstinians on the eastern side of the city
Speaker 3: fell under Jordanian rule. So the story goes that my
Speaker 3: great grandmother their left and my great grandfather put his
Speaker 3: children in an orphanage. My dad says he heard they
Speaker 3: were often mistreated, possibly because their.
Speaker 5: Mother was Israeli. And later, when.
Speaker 3: Israel occupied the rest of Jerusalem and the city was unified,
Speaker 3: my great grandmother did go looking for her children, but
Speaker 3: my grandfather didn't connect with her, so her son and
Speaker 3: moved to Jordan. Now from my mother, I also pressed
Speaker 3: for more information. She had never told me any of
Speaker 3: the story, but this year, literally a few weeks ago,
Speaker 3: she finally gave me Rachel's last name. I dug around
Speaker 3: to see what I could find out about her. I
Speaker 3: asked online. I got the help of people who had
Speaker 3: expertise in Jewish genealogy, and what I found was a
Speaker 3: much more complicated picture. First, I found an academic article
Speaker 3: about a quote non partisan Zionist youth group in Belgium
Speaker 3: in the nineteen twenties and nineteen thirties. I don't speak Hebrew,
Speaker 3: so I'm going to mispronounce this. I think it's called
Speaker 3: zeier Ham getting their members ready to make the journey
Speaker 3: to Palestine. That's what this article was about. They were
Speaker 3: nonpartisan in the sense that they included a lot of
Speaker 3: different strains of Zionism, so right wing Zionism, left wing
Speaker 3: Zionism among the members, but the Zionism itself, of course
Speaker 3: was taken as a given. Now, the article included quotes
Speaker 3: from former members of this group and kind of grainy
Speaker 3: black and white photos of which the name Rachel appeared
Speaker 3: in the captions with her last name. And when I
Speaker 3: first saw the woman identified as Rachel in this group photo,
Speaker 3: I knew instinctively that I had found her because she
Speaker 3: looked like a blonde version of my mother. My intuition
Speaker 3: was very quickly confirmed because Rachel was identified by her
Speaker 3: married Palestinian name in the footnotes where she was quoted.
Speaker 3: So I found her here she was. I wanted to
Speaker 3: know more about what had happened to her after these
Speaker 3: pictures Belgium were taken. The article states that she immigrated
Speaker 3: to Palstine in the early nineteen thirties at the encouragement
Speaker 3: of her quote Zionist mother. But what had led her
Speaker 3: between nineteen thirty three and nineteen forty eight to marry
Speaker 3: and then leave a Palestinian And then why was she
Speaker 3: visiting her grandchildren and apparently me in the nineteen nineties.
Speaker 3: The second big piece of information I got was because
Speaker 3: of a Blue Sky account puy m Und Genealogy. This
Speaker 3: is a person who works on Jewish genealogy, has an
Speaker 3: interest in it, and he helped find an article that
Speaker 3: had been written about my great grandmother in the Israeli
Speaker 3: magazine Mahrev. So shout out to this guy. Now. This
Speaker 3: article was dated June twelfth, nineteen eighty seven. It's a
Speaker 3: three page spread and in this interview that Rachel gives,
Speaker 3: she talks about her childhood in Antwerp, her immigration to
Speaker 3: Palestine as a young woman, and her marriage. So apparently
Speaker 3: after her civil ceremony with my great grandfather in nineteen
Speaker 3: thirty five, they had traveled Acros Europe for a whole year,
Speaker 3: even meeting the extended family in Poland, where Rachel's family
Speaker 3: was originally from. Her new husband was honored by her uncle,
Speaker 3: who was an important rabbi. Now, for reasons she does
Speaker 3: not outline, Rachel discusses leaving her husband, maybe assuming the
Speaker 3: separation would be temporary in nineteen forty eight, But unlike
Speaker 3: the story that my father had heard and I had
Speaker 3: been told, she had not left her children, and in
Speaker 3: fact there had been four of them. She left two
Speaker 3: of them with their father and took the eldest and
Speaker 3: the baby that she was pregnant with to West Jerusalem.
Speaker 3: She kept her married name, and she never officially divorced.
Speaker 3: I can only assume that she didn't guess the city
Speaker 3: would be divided, or maybe didn't understand for how long now,
Speaker 3: when Israel took the rest of the city in nineteen
Speaker 3: sixty seven, she not only reconnected with her I guess
Speaker 3: Palestinian children, but it seems from this article had warm
Speaker 3: relationships with them until the end. Rachel had assisted my grandfather,
Speaker 3: her son in marrying my grandmother, compiling the dowry. The
Speaker 3: children who had been raised ISRAELI had reconnected with their
Speaker 3: family to varying degrees. Some of the Pastinian children visited
Speaker 3: the Israeli children in Tel Aviv. According to this interview,
Speaker 3: Rachel even reconnected with her husband, my great grandfather, living
Speaker 3: with him until he passed in nineteen eighty three. Rachel
Speaker 3: had also maintained a relationship with her daughter in law,
Speaker 3: my maternal grandmother, even after her son's divorce. In this article,
Speaker 3: I recognized the descriptions of my mother and my aunts.
Speaker 3: Rachel had kept visiting them until she died in the
Speaker 3: mid nineteen nineties, so that explains the visit that my
Speaker 3: father had witnessed. I quickly realized that, of course, it
Speaker 3: had been easier for many members of my family to
Speaker 3: pretend this had never happened, try to keep the truth
Speaker 3: of these relationships from their children. I suppose they preferred
Speaker 3: a neater's story of clean breaks and solid national divisions.
Speaker 3: It is also not long on me that much of
Speaker 3: this obfuscation relies on the common misogynistic trope of the
Speaker 3: negligent mother, which was apparently easy for everyone to believe. Now,
Speaker 3: I won't say that israel Pastinian marriages are common, or
Speaker 3: that intimate relationships between the two groups are easy to find,
Speaker 3: but they aren't unheard of. Israeli political parties are certainly
Speaker 3: scared enough of this prospect. They often voice condemnations of
Speaker 3: inter ethnic relationships of this kind. So this phenomenon must
Speaker 3: exist at some level, and I guess I shouldn't be
Speaker 3: surprised either, because Palestine's most well known poet, Mahmud Rush,
Speaker 3: was famous for his poetry, among many of them a
Speaker 3: poem he wrote to his Jewish girlfriend titled Rita. This
Speaker 3: was the same man that joined the PLO, lived through
Speaker 3: the Israeli siege of Beirut, and wrote the pawsdinan declaration
Speaker 3: of independence. Now, Rachel's story really boggled my mind in
Speaker 3: its contradictions because she had been part of a Zionist
Speaker 3: youth group, she had actively joined an effort to facilitate
Speaker 3: the migration of your or Jewish population to Palestine, eventually
Speaker 3: leading to the displacement of Palestinians. But she had married
Speaker 3: to Palestinian and in the interview from Ariv, she describes
Speaker 3: running to the eastern part of the city when Israel
Speaker 3: occupied it in nineteen sixty seven to see quote her friends,
Speaker 3: and she says she would marry my great grandfather all
Speaker 3: over again. If she could you see, dear, it was
Speaker 3: a great love, she told their interviewer. Ironically, my parents
Speaker 3: and my maternal grandparents, all of which share national and
Speaker 3: religious identities, both ended up divorced, but Rachel and her
Speaker 3: Palestinian Muslim husband somehow state together. At the same time.
Speaker 3: Rachel turned a blind eye to many things, and she
Speaker 3: herself hid many things. For example, she doesn't reveal the
Speaker 3: details of her children raised as Israeli. The interviewer in
Speaker 3: the mar Of magazine interview emphasizes that they wouldn't want
Speaker 3: their information known, especially about their lineage. It seems that
Speaker 3: neither ever reconnected with their palsinan father and most telling
Speaker 3: for me in that interview, when my maternal grandmother, Rachel's
Speaker 3: daughter in law, complains of the Israeli soldiers in the
Speaker 3: neighborhood that she lived in, the interviewer reports that Rachel
Speaker 3: feigns deafness and returns the conversation to a discussion of
Speaker 3: the children. Now, Rachel isn't abnormal. Israeli society has turned
Speaker 3: a blind eye to many things. Many Israelis pretend that
Speaker 3: the Palestinians as a national group do not exist they
Speaker 3: prefer to think of them, preferred to think of us
Speaker 3: as the reincarnation of Nazis, or the modern day manifestation
Speaker 3: of anti Semitism, or at best, Palestinians are merely generic
Speaker 3: Arabs with easily sever ties to this particular land. The
Speaker 3: Israeli state even grows pine trees over emptied and demolished
Speaker 3: Palestinian villages to ensure return is impossible and to hide
Speaker 3: the extent of what happened in the latest war on Gaza.
Speaker 3: Images and videos from Gaza are dismissed as Ai fabrications.
Speaker 3: They call it Pollywood, just an effort by Palestinians to
Speaker 3: put Israel in a bad light, and governments the world
Speaker 3: over seemed to have taken this position of turning a
Speaker 3: blind eye to the oppression Palstinians have faced and assuming
Speaker 3: Palstinians would live and die never having exercised their basic rights.
Speaker 3: All I can say is I'm living proof that these
Speaker 3: silences prolong the inevitable, that the truth eventually comes out
Speaker 3: and the return is inevitable. The longer we wait to
Speaker 3: acknowledge the reality of the situation, the more people will suffer,
Speaker 3: and the more this kind of intergenerational trauma will continue.
Speaker 3: I recently finished Molly Krabapple's book Here where We Live
Speaker 3: as Our Country. On the Jewish Bound, she quotes a
Speaker 3: Jewish Bundislivic Hodes saying that quote, belief in mankind is
Speaker 3: not popular today. In these last years, we have all
Speaker 3: seen it become deeply debased, despoiled and spat on. But
Speaker 3: if man is at heart a beast, no amount of
Speaker 3: running away will help end quote. This really resonated with me.
Speaker 3: I firmly believe that we can't rely on silence to
Speaker 3: disappear our problems. We can't run from each other. Let
Speaker 3: my family history be a testament to that. When we
Speaker 3: understand that, then the truth and the resolution and the
Speaker 3: return is only a matter of time, and maybe then
Speaker 3: the nakba will end. Thank you for listening and hope
Speaker 3: you all stay safe.
Speaker 1: Welcome to It could happen here, a podcast about going
Speaker 1: on strike and hopefully winning. I am your host, Mia Wong.
Speaker 1: There's a concept in You're in Organizing called a hot shop,
Speaker 1: which is a shop where everything is moving really really quickly,
Speaker 1: and people are organizing really quickly, and bad stuff is
Speaker 1: happening really quickly, and people are reacting really quickly, and
Speaker 1: today we are going to talk to maybe the hottest
Speaker 1: shop I have ever encountered, and to discuss the shop.
Speaker 1: I am talking to Jackie May and Deja Indigo, who
Speaker 1: are members and organizers of Real You Electrolysis Workers United.
Speaker 1: Both of you two, welcome to the show.
Speaker 6: Hi, thank you, thank you for having us, Thank you
Speaker 6: for having us on such short notice. You said hot shop,
Speaker 6: and yeah, it's been a week, very hot week.
Speaker 1: Indeed, I had heard this was going on and it
Speaker 1: was there's an attempt to go public. The next thing
Speaker 1: I heard was like the next day and there was
Speaker 1: a strike.
Speaker 7: And I was like, oh my god, this is wild.
Speaker 7: So yeah, not even a week ago. Yeah, it will be.
Speaker 1: I think by the time you're listening to this it
Speaker 1: will be one week.
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, okay, that's fair. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I want to mention this is being recorded on Monday
Speaker 1: and May twenty fifth. This situation is moving very quickly.
Speaker 1: There was a chance that things have changed by then.
Speaker 1: We will try to get an update in if something
Speaker 1: really major hass happened. But let's roll this back to
Speaker 1: the beginning. And I think the place I want to
Speaker 1: start is so you all are gets real You electrolysis
Speaker 1: workers United. So you are electrolysis workers. I know this
Speaker 1: audience specifically of it could happen here has a significantly
Speaker 1: higher chance of the general population to know what electrolysis is.
Speaker 1: But can you explain for people who don't know or
Speaker 1: only kind of familiar, what electrolysis is.
Speaker 7: Of course, electrolysis is the only FDA recognized method of
Speaker 7: permanent hair removal. It is a technique that dates back
Speaker 7: a surprisingly long time where we insert a filament about
Speaker 7: the size of a hair into individual hair follicles, and
Speaker 7: with the use of electricity to generate either heat or lie,
Speaker 7: we basically kill each hair follicle at its root, and
Speaker 7: that hair, if all goes according to plan, will not
Speaker 7: come back. It is commonly used in gender affirming care,
Speaker 7: and that is one of the if not the specialty
Speaker 7: of real you electrolysis.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and can you talk a bit about this in
Speaker 1: a gender affirming care context?
Speaker 7: Of course, you know, if you are a transgender person
Speaker 7: and you are undergoing medical transition, there is a variety
Speaker 7: of reasons you might want to have hair permanently removed,
Speaker 7: either in preparation for surgery, both in terms of a
Speaker 7: transfeminine or trans masculine surgical context, you will need hair
Speaker 7: permanently removed from some parts of your body that will
Speaker 7: be involved in that. You also may want to have
Speaker 7: facial hair or body hair permanently removed. Again, this supplies
Speaker 7: to both transfeminine, transmasculine, and people anywhere else on the
Speaker 7: transgender spectrum, because you know, not everybody wants to have
Speaker 7: body hair or facial hair.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is something that I mean, I can
Speaker 1: personally say you can get a lot of dysphoria from
Speaker 1: body hair.
Speaker 7: It can be real bad. Oh yeah, I can't.
Speaker 1: And not having it is such a huge difference. Yes,
Speaker 1: And I guess a thing that I should say, so
Speaker 1: my understanding of electrolysisms. I have not done electrolysists. I
Speaker 1: have a lot of friends you have. But the thing
Speaker 1: about electrolysis versus like you know, shaving or something, is
Speaker 1: that once you hit a hair follicle, it's gone, and theoretically,
Speaker 1: after you're done with you know, like a bunch of
Speaker 1: the sessions, you just.
Speaker 7: Don't have hair growing daring. Yes, correct, And also I
Speaker 7: should note that it is also covered by most health
Speaker 7: insurance that does coverage under affirming care I know we
Speaker 7: all have kind of mixed feelings about the w PATH standards,
Speaker 7: but it is considered the standard of care for hair
Speaker 7: removal under the w PATH. So, you know, a significant
Speaker 7: proportion of the patients at the really electron this clinic
Speaker 7: are using insurance to pay for their care. Yeah, which
Speaker 7: is really cool.
Speaker 1: Not all trans healthcare is that expensive, but electrolysis is
Speaker 1: not the most cheap thing if you are paying out
Speaker 1: of pocket and it's really long.
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's usually out of pocket. Is somewhere between one
Speaker 7: hundred and twenty to two hundred and forty dollars an hour,
Speaker 7: depending on your provider. And these are weekly sessions, usually
Speaker 7: at least an hour. Sometimes they can be less for
Speaker 7: those who have difficulty tolerating it. Some people go for
Speaker 7: even more, like some patients may elect to get like
Speaker 7: six hours of it done. But again, this is a
Speaker 7: lot of out of pocket costs, especially when it generally
Speaker 7: takes anywhere from a year and a half to three
Speaker 7: years to fully clear an area. So this is why
Speaker 7: it's so important to have this covered by insurance because
Speaker 7: has it really adds up quickly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think this is also gets into what's
Speaker 1: important about this shop, which is that this is one
Speaker 1: of the few Latrills's places I've ever encountered where huge
Speaker 1: portions of the staff are trans. Yes, and yeah, can
Speaker 1: you talk a bit about what that's been like doing
Speaker 1: you know, like doing this kind of gender firming care
Speaker 1: on other trans people who normally could say this is
Speaker 1: a medical setting. I can count on one finger the
Speaker 1: number of trans healthcare providers. I mean, I guess if
Speaker 1: you count pharmacists, I can add like a second finger
Speaker 1: in my entire life that I'm extremely lucky that I've
Speaker 1: even gotten one.
Speaker 7: Trans hectare provider who is trans.
Speaker 6: Well, it's an honor and a privilege to be able
Speaker 6: to work with other trans people for gender firm and
Speaker 6: care for our community. Because we don't just serve the
Speaker 6: Vancouver area, we also serve the PDX area.
Speaker 7: And further, we have patients that commute from hours and
Speaker 7: hours away. That is true.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for people who don't know a little bit of
Speaker 1: geography stuff that will become important later. So this is Vancouver, Washington,
Speaker 1: which is just like right across a river from Portland.
Speaker 1: This amazingly the fact that technically speaking, this river is
Speaker 1: like the state border will become important in that little bit.
Speaker 7: Yes, yes, yes, it will. Oh boy. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna I'm gonna ask all of you know,
Speaker 1: put a little pin in city that is technically across
Speaker 1: the state border from another city, but is like you
Speaker 1: just drive over a bridge and you're there. Let's go
Speaker 1: talk about some strike shit. Mm hmm Okay, so I
Speaker 1: guess to start. Can we talk about how organizing kind
Speaker 1: of first started at at Real Yola Chuls's.
Speaker 8: Yes, it first started because they hired me mi a
Speaker 8: and hied me. Ever since I was a little girl,
Speaker 8: I have been enchanted with the idea of a workers
Speaker 8: union and people working together to make their conditions better.
Speaker 7: It is something that I have had to learn and.
Speaker 6: Practice on my own because I didn't know about the IWW.
Speaker 6: It's a thing that I was trying to do before
Speaker 6: I moved out here. And then this opportunity just drops
Speaker 6: into my lap and it's queer people, and you're working
Speaker 6: on queer people. I've got hosbumps. It's not because I'm cold,
Speaker 6: and and how could I, in good conscience just like
Speaker 6: let that opportunity go.
Speaker 7: Yeah. Yeah, Jackie May is very much the motive force
Speaker 7: behind getting our shit together and unionizing. I remember from
Speaker 7: the time that I started, Jackie May was talking about
Speaker 7: having a goal to unionize the shop. We weren't expecting
Speaker 7: it to be on such a quick timeline, but I
Speaker 7: was really excited to have somebody else who was into
Speaker 7: doing this because I've always been a hardcore leftist and
Speaker 7: an extreme socialist communist. I don't know whatever label you
Speaker 7: want to put on me workers' rights, like we should
Speaker 7: own the means of production and we should be the
Speaker 7: ones receiving all of the benefits from it. Yea, But
Speaker 7: Jackie May has just been like ready to go. But
Speaker 7: we can also talk about like the actual start to
Speaker 7: like okay, what did we actually start doing things to
Speaker 7: this direction?
Speaker 9: Right?
Speaker 7: You want to take that, Jackie May.
Speaker 6: Yeah, So like light to have been going on since
Speaker 6: I got there back in actually June of last year.
Speaker 6: It's always just been real light, real surface level is in, hey,
Speaker 6: do you support a union? Would you like to consider.
Speaker 10: Being in one?
Speaker 7: One day?
Speaker 6: And then I go about my day like converse like
Speaker 6: that's as far as the conversation goes, because that's all
Speaker 6: the information I need at that point. Yeah, so I
Speaker 6: knew who in the building was yes, and last month
Speaker 6: one of our members, someone who was already in talks
Speaker 6: with us, was fired, and the circumstances around that person
Speaker 6: being fired, the vibes were off. Right, Like the previous week,
Speaker 6: there was a dirty cart that just happened to appear
Speaker 6: in her room that would be worth the write up
Speaker 6: to get her fired. Huh, that cart couldn't have been
Speaker 6: hers because before she started school, she moved that cart
Speaker 6: to another to her substitute clinicians room. Like, could could
Speaker 6: not be what management said it was.
Speaker 1: So it looks like something else fabricated to.
Speaker 7: Clarify this union member, This coworker was going on a
Speaker 7: leave of absence to attend a certification training program, so
Speaker 7: that is why she had a substitute clinician taking over
Speaker 7: her equipment. I should also add that this was the
Speaker 7: first time they have ever done room inspections on site yea.
Speaker 7: In fact, the only they've only done room inspections twice
Speaker 7: and both times resulted in a termination. Well that's not
Speaker 7: suspicious at all anyway, Sorry, Jackie Maye, please continue, No worries.
Speaker 7: It's okay, We're listen. We're allowed to rabbit trail.
Speaker 6: But we come back to So our friend was fired, right,
Speaker 6: it's super duper suspicious. Yeah, And I saw an opportunity
Speaker 6: and I took that opportunity to talk to people about it.
Speaker 6: And for like a few days after this it happened,
Speaker 6: nobody knew where she was at, nobody knew what happened.
Speaker 6: So the narrative was entirely up to me and just going,
Speaker 6: this is what they did, and we all know this.
Speaker 6: We all know this person, We've worked alongside this person,
Speaker 6: we all recognize her skill and how intelligent she is.
Speaker 6: She's going to go on to teach this stuff. It's true,
Speaker 6: and it made all of us scared that one of
Speaker 6: our best could just be removed like that and go.
Speaker 1: This is my understanding. This is a pretty small shop, right,
Speaker 1: like everyone knows everyone else.
Speaker 7: Oh yeah, yes, yeah, like maybe maybe fifteen or sixteen
Speaker 7: practicing clinicians at a given time.
Speaker 1: Thereabouts, which yeah, I guess makes it more scary when
Speaker 1: it's someone you know, when you're close to, just is
Speaker 1: just suddenly fired.
Speaker 7: And I should note that most of us who have
Speaker 7: worked there are also patients there, so like a lot
Speaker 7: of these a lot of our coworkers are not just coworkers,
Speaker 7: they're also practitioners that provide gender affirming care to us.
Speaker 7: So we don't just have like a superficial sense of
Speaker 7: the clinical skill of these people. We have direct experience,
Speaker 7: and that makes it just that much more devastating. When
Speaker 7: it's somebody you know is extremely good at their job
Speaker 7: is just suddenly gone under very suspicious circumstances, it's devastating.
Speaker 1: So this gets into one of the truly wildest and
Speaker 1: most distressing parts of this entire story, which is, can
Speaker 1: you talk about the I guess I would just call it.
Speaker 1: The most neutral thing I can call it is the loan. Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1: So remember when we kind of put a pin in
Speaker 1: the fact that Vancouver, Washington, is right across the river
Speaker 1: from Portland, Oregon. So there is a big difference between
Speaker 1: how the state of Washington and how the state of
Speaker 1: Oregon regulates the practice of electrolysis. In the state of Oregon,
Speaker 1: you cannot practice electrolysis without first going through a certification
Speaker 1: program and passing a certification exam to become certified. In
Speaker 1: the state of Washington, as long as you are practicing
Speaker 1: under the authority of somebody who has been certified in
Speaker 1: another state, you can practice electrolysis without certification. In fact,
Speaker 1: the state of Washington does not currently have their own
Speaker 1: certification framework for electrolysis, so those of us who work
Speaker 1: at Real EU Electrolysis were all hired without prior certification.
Speaker 1: I think there may be one or two exceptions over
Speaker 1: the years, but by and large, the overwhelming majority are
Speaker 1: people who have no prior experience performing electrolysis. So Really
Speaker 1: You Electrolicists does have certified electrologists on staff who are
Speaker 1: responsible for the training of new hires.
Speaker 7: One of the conditions of employment at Real U Electrolysis
Speaker 7: is to agree to sign a promissory note, wherein Really
Speaker 7: You Electrolicis will basically provide a stipend and pay for
Speaker 7: all expenses related to receiving certification from a certification program
Speaker 7: in exchange for four years of work at real Electrolysis.
Speaker 7: Those who sign this note are not required to directly
Speaker 7: pay back any money unless they either fail to complete
Speaker 7: their schooling, fail to pass their certification, resign their position
Speaker 7: within four years, or are terminated, and at that point
Speaker 7: they are immediately liable to repay the full amount of
Speaker 7: the promissory note. So essentially, as soon as you enter
Speaker 7: schooling and again this is a condition of employment. Every
Speaker 7: single person who has been hired by really Electrolysis could
Speaker 7: not start working without signing a contract. Agreeing to sign
Speaker 7: those prom story note when it comes time to be
Speaker 7: sent to school.
Speaker 1: Yeah, can you talk about, like, how much money is
Speaker 1: it that you have to pay back if you either
Speaker 1: get fired or leave.
Speaker 7: At least twenty one thousand dollars in this case, Jesus
Speaker 7: Christ like, oh my god.
Speaker 11: Yeah, it's cartoonishly evil.
Speaker 7: Yeah. I should clarify as well that most of us
Speaker 7: who are hired are not coming into this job from
Speaker 7: a place of financial privilege. Most of us had some
Speaker 7: manner of skepticism over this contract, but because the opportunity
Speaker 7: just seemed so great, and because we had not heard
Speaker 7: any history of, you know, any sort of bad faith
Speaker 7: actions from management, I think we all just kind of decided, well,
Speaker 7: I get to work with a bunch of cool trans
Speaker 7: people on a bunch of cool trans people for decent
Speaker 7: pay and benefits, and they probably won't just fire me
Speaker 7: once I signed this loan, Like that wouldn't be cool.
Speaker 7: And so where this really comes into play is that
Speaker 7: the union member, the coworker who was fired, as I
Speaker 7: mentioned before, was on a leave of absence to be
Speaker 7: in school, and basically she was fired and immediately they
Speaker 7: demanded repayment in full of this loan. So not only
Speaker 7: did she lose her job over extremely spurious circumstances, she
Speaker 7: now was on the hook for twenty one thousand dollars,
Speaker 7: like immediately. I think the deadline they gave her is
Speaker 7: in like two days.
Speaker 6: So I want to add something to all of that. Yeah,
Speaker 6: they had her sign that loan knowing that she had
Speaker 6: two write ups on the books and that her next
Speaker 6: write up within those four years would lead to termination.
Speaker 6: They knew that they have that on file.
Speaker 7: They admitted that to our faces. We had a group
Speaker 7: of witnesses who can attest to this because we did
Speaker 7: all confront them. That's jumping a little bit further ahead
Speaker 7: in the story. We'll get there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just I want to stay here for a
Speaker 1: second to just sort of just walk through how unbelievably
Speaker 1: unhinged this is.
Speaker 7: Which is that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So the condition of working here is that you
Speaker 1: have to sign like what is effectively an a dentured servitude contract.
Speaker 1: Like it's like, okay, you have to work here for
Speaker 1: like four years, and if we ever decide to fire you,
Speaker 1: you can't leave. And if you ever decide to fire you,
Speaker 1: you just oh twenty one thousand dollars, which just on
Speaker 1: the face of it is such an unbelievably exploitive situation
Speaker 1: because yeah, this is a bunch of queer and trance
Speaker 1: people like no, no fucking transperson and has twenty one
Speaker 1: thousand dollars, Like that's just not a thing, Like yeah,
Speaker 1: we should certainly not one thousand dollars, Like what are
Speaker 1: we doing here.
Speaker 9: Like.
Speaker 6: Taking advantage of the trans community.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then you have that just as the baseline
Speaker 1: condition of just everyone has just the doom of gamaicles
Speaker 1: hanging over their head. And then also, you know, like
Speaker 1: what you were describing were, okay, you get someone to
Speaker 1: sign the contract knowing that you can get rid of
Speaker 1: them after one more infraction. That's such an incredible incentive
Speaker 1: to like mistreat and fire people, because if you fire someone,
Speaker 1: you can just collect, like try to collect like twenty
Speaker 1: one thousand dollars from.
Speaker 6: Them, financially ruin somebody, financially destroy somebody, render them homeless.
Speaker 7: Yeah, even Yeah, it's what we call a perverse incentive.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can just reduce someone effectively into a debt
Speaker 1: peon and usually that kind of threat is abstract. This
Speaker 1: is how we're It's a device to work and to
Speaker 1: stay in line. If you lose your job, then you're
Speaker 1: going to drown in all of the things you need
Speaker 1: to do to survive. But no, here, it's just yeah,
Speaker 1: you're down twenty one dollars.
Speaker 7: In debt to this company that just fired you. Yep,
Speaker 7: and again that is due and payable immediately. That the
Speaker 7: way the contract is worded does not stipulate any sort
Speaker 7: of repayment period. Now, we have attestations from previous employees
Speaker 7: who have been fired under this contract and been released
Speaker 7: from it, so we do know that the owners of
Speaker 7: Really Electronicis will selectively choose to release terminated employees from
Speaker 7: their contract. However, they have elected not to do that
Speaker 7: in the case of this union member, this coworker who
Speaker 7: was fired last month. Correct.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that also that also looks like retaliation your words,
Speaker 1: like sort of deliberately your words. Yeah, you know, it
Speaker 1: doesn't look good. There aren't good answers as to why
Speaker 1: you would do that in this situation and not in others.
Speaker 6: The story gets more fun too.
Speaker 7: Oh yeah, yeah, we're just getting started.
Speaker 1: Before all of this gets even more unhinged, we need
Speaker 1: to go to I don't know, maybe a source of
Speaker 1: hingedeness and security. I mean, if that's true, I hope
Speaker 1: better things happen in your lives. But we're throwing to
Speaker 1: the products and services that support this podcast. We are back.
Speaker 1: Let's continue with this story here and get to I
Speaker 1: guess the next set of fir inks because this just
Speaker 1: keeps escalating.
Speaker 6: So before we actually get to the next set of firings,
Speaker 6: we would have our first and Dejah correct me if
Speaker 6: I'm wrong, our second meeting. You are correct, Yeah, we
Speaker 6: would have our first and second meeting before the next firing.
Speaker 7: May second, and May fourteenth. Yes, so that next firing
Speaker 7: would take place on Monday, May eighteenth.
Speaker 1: That was Monday May eighteenth, Yeah, so like one week
Speaker 1: ago from when this is getting recorded. Which bear that
Speaker 1: in mind as the rest of the story plays out,
Speaker 1: because the timeline here is so condensed that like it's
Speaker 1: like all of the shit that happens with like a
Speaker 1: bad union busting campaign condensed to the span of like
Speaker 1: three days.
Speaker 6: Yes, we are speed running bad boss versus union workers story, Like.
Speaker 7: This is like one of the fastest escalations I've ever
Speaker 7: seen before.
Speaker 1: We get this Monday, Let's talk about what happened at
Speaker 1: those two meetings, because this is genuinely such an impressive pace, Like,
Speaker 1: how fast all of this got organized?
Speaker 7: Yes, So the first meeting May second, we basically gathered
Speaker 7: every clinician who we believed we could trust, who was
Speaker 7: not either a manager in training or did not have
Speaker 7: direct ties to management, and also who was on site,
Speaker 7: because there were some people that we would have loved
Speaker 7: to have talked to who were off site attending a
Speaker 7: certification program at another location. So we gathered up everyone
Speaker 7: we could. That started with about eight of us and
Speaker 7: grew to ten as the night war on. We talked
Speaker 7: about the circumstances around the firing of that coworker who
Speaker 7: was in school. We all talked about our options for
Speaker 7: how do we proceed. We voted unanimously to form a union,
Speaker 7: and to do so under the auspices of the Industrial
Speaker 7: Workers of the world, thanks in part to Jackie May
Speaker 7: having contact with them and having gotten a bit of
Speaker 7: a lowdown on like what our options looked like. Yeah,
Speaker 7: so that was the TLDR of the first meeting. Ten people.
Speaker 1: That's like two thirds of the shop, like of the
Speaker 1: total people yet.
Speaker 7: Yes, of the people who were active practicing clinicians there,
Speaker 7: I think we were only missing a couple.
Speaker 1: Yeap, which is really impressive. I wish we could have
Speaker 1: got them.
Speaker 7: Yeah, we definitely wish we could have gotten to everybody
Speaker 7: or had been clearer on who was actually not management. Yeah,
Speaker 7: that's also a thing that like management will play a
Speaker 7: lot of games with who isn't isn't union eligible? I
Speaker 7: just want to like stop for a second and be
Speaker 7: like getting like two thirds or more of a shop
Speaker 7: to show up to the first meeting and vote to
Speaker 7: form a union is like that might be the fastest
Speaker 7: I've ever seen this happen. It's like you did this
Speaker 7: in one meeting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, speed ran the entire organizing process like one meeting.
Speaker 7: It's like unbelievable. We put this on Gamestown quick too. Yeah,
Speaker 7: like I maybe I don't know. We could submit it
Speaker 7: for a world record with new world record category any
Speaker 7: person unanimous. As they say, nobody organizes quite as well
Speaker 7: as a bad boss. That's true.
Speaker 1: You have, yeah, you have you have the double benefit
Speaker 1: of bad boss firing people. And also like it's a
Speaker 1: bunch of queer and trance people, is like, yes, conditions
Speaker 1: for organizing.
Speaker 7: Yes, So that meeting that was May second. The next
Speaker 7: meeting took place on May fourteenth. Now, Jackie Maye, do
Speaker 7: you want to talk a little bit before we talk
Speaker 7: about this meeting about some of the things that happened
Speaker 7: in between the two meetings, like certain actions by management
Speaker 7: and people who are manager adjacent. Oh right, right, yeah, so.
Speaker 6: Our tools in laundry sterilization tech, maybe specialist, I'm not
Speaker 6: quite sure on the word for it. Salem is married
Speaker 6: to our director of operations, Zeric Lee' that's no boy.
Speaker 6: But wait, there's more. Oh no, Salem actually approached at
Speaker 6: least one of our one of our union members to
Speaker 6: ask directly if we were forming a union.
Speaker 1: Yeah, which, by the way, you're not allowed to do.
Speaker 1: You're not supposed to do that, but you know that's yeah, great,
Speaker 1: incredible stuff.
Speaker 6: It's a lovely gray area because Huz Melam isn't management.
Speaker 1: But technically isn't management. Is simply married. Did you married
Speaker 1: to management? It's technically technically illegal, but like management's really
Speaker 1: really not supposed to be doing that.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think it also bears clarifying at this point
Speaker 7: that Xeric Lee, director of Operations and effectively the HR
Speaker 7: Department of really Electrolysis has absolutely heard Jackie May express
Speaker 7: positive union sentiment. M h, I forgot about that. This
Speaker 7: goes back to summer of twenty twenty five. Like, there
Speaker 7: have been multiple instances where people in management have directly
Speaker 7: heard Jackie May talking about being pro union. Granted, Jackie
Speaker 7: May has always been properly elliptical about it in the
Speaker 7: presence of management. Not it's hard, but yeah, but the
Speaker 7: suspicion was clearly established long ago. Yeah, that is true.
Speaker 7: That is true. This will be important. Yeah, foreshadowing is
Speaker 7: a literary technique, so to continue during these two weeks
Speaker 7: in between meetings thereabouts. Yes, we did have Salem spouse
Speaker 7: of the director of operations poking around asking questions. Oh boy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I will say this is also a very
Speaker 1: common management tactic of course, as part of why when
Speaker 1: you're organizing you need to do the basic power mapping
Speaker 1: of figuring out who is close to the bosses and
Speaker 1: who is close to management and what ties they have,
Speaker 1: because that dramatically affects Yeah, you two absolutely both know this,
Speaker 1: but for the listeners, Yeah, it's very important to figure
Speaker 1: out who the person who's married to management and will
Speaker 1: report to them.
Speaker 12: Beans.
Speaker 6: Yes, so I treated as game theory. I have treated
Speaker 6: all of this like it has been a game. Yeah,
Speaker 6: because that's how I process it. That's that's that's all
Speaker 6: I needed to say about that.
Speaker 7: Go ahead, deja. Yeah. So, to the credit of every
Speaker 7: union member, not a single person violated op SEC on
Speaker 7: this nobody confessed to any union organizing activity. Yeah, that
Speaker 7: doesn't change that they continued to be suspicious in any case.
Speaker 7: We had our second meeting on May fourteenth. At that meeting,
Speaker 7: present were representatives from the IWW as well as a
Speaker 7: representative from ILWU Local five, because at that point we
Speaker 7: had not been formally endorsed by a union and we
Speaker 7: wanted to get some perspectives from whoever was available to
Speaker 7: speak to us, and those were the two shops that
Speaker 7: were available to come talk to us. At that meeting,
Speaker 7: we again voted unanimous lee to continue with organizing unionizing.
Speaker 7: We were initially going to do it under the auspices
Speaker 7: of ILWU Local five. However, their onboarding protocols are a
Speaker 7: little bit more time consuming and involved than the IWW's
Speaker 7: and the following Monday, which Jackie May will be talking
Speaker 7: about in just a second. There were some circumstances that
Speaker 7: sort of forced us to go with the union. Who
Speaker 7: could get us on board lickety split. Yeah.
Speaker 6: So that Monday, I want to say, it was a midday.
Speaker 6: I had just finished with like my I want to say,
Speaker 6: my first two people, and was I was on my
Speaker 6: way to the breakroom to grab a drink, and on
Speaker 6: my way out, I see my coworker, fellow union member,
Speaker 6: and even my housemate come out of her office flanked
Speaker 6: by real you electrolysis management.
Speaker 7: And the last.
Speaker 6: Time I saw her that day was she had tears
Speaker 6: streaming down her face and she just goes, Jackie May.
Speaker 6: They fired me, and I responded immediately, I got I
Speaker 6: want to say five for six of us to gather
Speaker 6: outside of Director of Operation Zeric Lee's office and we
Speaker 6: voiced our displeasure. We voiced that our coworkers should have
Speaker 6: their jobs back. We voice that none of us feel
Speaker 6: safe because of the working conditions. None of us feel
Speaker 6: safe because of the way management goes about handing out
Speaker 6: disciplinary actions, the inconsistency with the different things that they
Speaker 6: will or will not punish. I just see his eyes
Speaker 6: peeking up over his monitor, and he's like, well, I can't.
Speaker 6: I can't discuss what's in somebody's personnel file, and also
Speaker 6: I can't hire them back. My hands are tied. You
Speaker 6: don't know all of the documentation on our side. So
Speaker 6: I go, Okay, who else do we got to talk to?
Speaker 6: And xeric Lee points us to President of Real You
Speaker 6: Electrolysis on a lantry, and we go down to her
Speaker 6: office and we say the same things, and she says,
Speaker 6: I'm not what I'm paraphrasing. I cannot make unilateral decisions. Yes,
Speaker 6: And I asked who else we would have to talk
Speaker 6: to about this, and she said that would be a
Speaker 6: co president, Lea La Favor and director of Operation Xeric Lee.
Speaker 6: I turned around and right across the hallway from Onna's
Speaker 6: office is Leah in reception. So we give them the
Speaker 6: exact same spiel of we're not happy with this, this
Speaker 6: needs to be corrected.
Speaker 7: None of us feel safe about this. And this was
Speaker 7: not simply Jackie may speaking either those of us present
Speaker 7: all voice concerns, myself included. You know, it was very
Speaker 7: clearly not the actions of a single individual, but of
Speaker 7: a concertive group.
Speaker 6: Yes, they may trust me to speak for them, but
Speaker 6: I also know when to be quiet so that they
Speaker 6: can voice their opinions. At that point, Desia had finished
Speaker 6: with all of their appointments and said, Hey, I'm done
Speaker 6: for the day. I'm going home. This isn't me giving
Speaker 6: you an official resignation. I need to go home and
Speaker 6: consider my options. And I followed suit with I'm not
Speaker 6: giving you a resignation. You have essentially created a family
Speaker 6: emergency for me, and now I have to go see
Speaker 6: to that family emergency. That is important. We will come
Speaker 6: back to that interaction, oh boy later, yes.
Speaker 7: I will say.
Speaker 1: Being one of the two presidents of the company and
Speaker 1: someone goes, don't fire our coworkers and you go, sorry,
Speaker 1: that's not like I can't make unilateral decisions is the
Speaker 1: most absolutely chicken shit response I've ever seen in my
Speaker 1: entire life. Like it's like, it's like fucking it's fucking
Speaker 1: like verdev I'm braun. Like when the rockets go up,
Speaker 1: who cares where they come down? That's not my department.
Speaker 1: It's like you are the president of the company, like I.
Speaker 7: What are we doing here? Like like I don't.
Speaker 1: Make nilateral decisions, like you are the president, Like there's
Speaker 1: like three people management.
Speaker 7: What are we doing here?
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess that's like, I mean, the thing
Speaker 1: you're doing here is everyone in secession is trying to
Speaker 1: be like, Ah, I actually can't do anything.
Speaker 7: It's like, yes, you can, you do run the business.
Speaker 7: But I would also like to note that this conversation
Speaker 7: held between the group of us with Hon Lantry and
Speaker 7: Lela Favor. Very early on in that conversation, on a
Speaker 7: Lantry said this conversation is over and walked away. However, Leah, yeah,
Speaker 7: they did continue to have a conversation with us, and
Speaker 7: was the person that we informed that we are not resigning.
Speaker 7: Anybody who leaves today is doing so because their schedule
Speaker 7: is clear, or they are having a family emergency. Both
Speaker 7: of these things are acceptable reasons for leaving your shift,
Speaker 7: and that has been established through ample precedent.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 7: So that was Monday. That was Monday, May eighteenth.
Speaker 6: Jesus Christ, that's not even all of Monday, right, I
Speaker 6: want to point out or include that straight from the
Speaker 6: job site, I went home, I grabbed my other roommate,
Speaker 6: who is at the time wasn't a part of the union,
Speaker 6: because wasn't an employee of real EU electrolysis, but is
Speaker 6: on the real EU Electrolysis hiring list.
Speaker 7: So is it a contractor situation?
Speaker 6: Not quiet, they will work with us in the future.
Speaker 1: Oh, it just like hasn't been fully hired.
Speaker 7: Yeah, that's kind of the way they do things, Like
Speaker 7: they hire people well in advance of having them actually
Speaker 7: start work, Like most of us were hired like months
Speaker 7: and months and months before we started actually taking shifts.
Speaker 6: So Monday, I go home, I pick up my housemate
Speaker 6: who is incredible and has a special interest in documentation
Speaker 6: and bureaucracy. She and Deja are my two documenters and
Speaker 6: shout out, shout out Tovey because we wouldn't have been
Speaker 6: able to get here without you. And we went to
Speaker 6: the IWW over in Portland and we had a meeting
Speaker 6: with them, and we just walked in there with the
Speaker 6: intention of asking for help from like their solidarity network
Speaker 6: of like, hey, we have just been put into a
Speaker 6: hardship status at this point because of what has happened.
Speaker 6: Can you help us, like with rent And I want
Speaker 6: to say that meeting was like two or three hours long.
Speaker 6: We talked about a lot of plans moving forward and
Speaker 6: instead of just having support with rent. We came away
Speaker 6: with a plan of what we would be doing next,
Speaker 6: and Tuesday came. We had all eleven people of this
Speaker 6: union meet in the parking lot and sign our petition together.
Speaker 6: We got it photo copied, we made digital copies. We
Speaker 6: made sure it was all safe. Our person got that
Speaker 6: stuff filed away for us, got us some very nice
Speaker 6: red folders to be able to keep all of these documentation,
Speaker 6: and we were given I was given a red folder
Speaker 6: labeled management and we planned to deliver this on Wednesday.
Speaker 6: Tuesday was why Tuesday was like quiet before the storm.
Speaker 7: Quiet. Yeah, we were all.
Speaker 6: Braced that I was going to be fired because while
Speaker 6: I wasn't swearing or rude to management, I wasn't as
Speaker 6: even toned or level headed as I am right now.
Speaker 7: I was also bracing to be fired because I did
Speaker 7: also do a lot of that speaking, and I was
Speaker 7: extremely emotional at the time as well. Absolutely, Oh, I
Speaker 7: do think there is one little tidbit that is important
Speaker 7: to mention about the employee who was fired on Monday
Speaker 7: is not only was this person union mem bur and
Speaker 7: one of the organizers, this person also had a fully
Speaker 7: like workplace sanctioned and endorsed romantic relationship with the first
Speaker 7: person who was fired. Oh so, like again, this is
Speaker 7: this is not like they were illicitly dating. It's like
Speaker 7: management had a protocol, had forms and all that for
Speaker 7: when coworkers are dating. It's in the employee handbook that
Speaker 7: they're okay with that. Yes, and so it looks.
Speaker 13: So they're like moving through the Yeah, huh, that's that's
Speaker 13: that's interesting. That's oh boy, I oh, yes, there's a
Speaker 13: thing this an FAA guy said about. There's there's a
Speaker 13: story of that guy who was like flying around in
Speaker 13: a lawn chair with like balloons attached to it.
Speaker 7: Oh my god, I know that story.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then the thing about that, the news calls
Speaker 1: the FAA guy, and the FAA guy goes, we don't
Speaker 1: know what section of the Federal Aviation Cody's violated, but
Speaker 1: when we figure it out, we'll prosecute with it. And like,
Speaker 1: that has to be some kind of violation of like
Speaker 1: like specifically targeting people in a relationship, Like there's there's
Speaker 1: got to be something there, but I don't know. And admittedly,
Speaker 1: American workplace law is a complete nightmare. But that is
Speaker 1: extremely sketchy and shitty, And yes.
Speaker 7: We're going to get it sorted out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh yes, yeah, I just oh boy, Jesus Christ,
Speaker 1: that that feels not good and good lord.
Speaker 7: Okay, so Jackie may please continue.
Speaker 6: I slept real good Tuesday night into Wednesday morning. Let
Speaker 6: me just say that I slept real good Wednesday morning.
Speaker 6: We coordinated and we went. We went a little early. Admittedly,
Speaker 6: I got a little that there was a little bit
Speaker 6: of adrenaline and I kind of jumped the gun, just
Speaker 6: just a hair. We were supposed to wait until eleven
Speaker 6: fifty five to deliver our sign petition.
Speaker 7: It's okay.
Speaker 6: Yeah, we all had new appointments and we are all
Speaker 6: so committed to our patients that none of this process
Speaker 6: like interrupted patience in treatment. All of this had been
Speaker 6: coordinated around our schedules so that people got to continue
Speaker 6: getting treatment.
Speaker 7: That is correct. There's never been a point where a
Speaker 7: patience treatment session has been interrupted or a patient has
Speaker 7: been abandoned. I'm saying this because there are some accusations
Speaker 7: from management to that effect, and I would like it
Speaker 7: on public record that that is absolutely false and that
Speaker 7: we can all attest to this foreshadowing more foreshadowing. Yes, boy, sorry,
Speaker 7: oh boy.
Speaker 6: So Wednesday morning I have the privilege, I have the
Speaker 6: backing of the crew to go serve this paperwork. We
Speaker 6: had somebody from the union kind of send out send
Speaker 6: out a feeler text to find out when the president
Speaker 6: and co president would be in the building. It wouldn't
Speaker 6: be until after twelve thirty. We serve that paperwork to
Speaker 6: Director of Operation Xeric Lee. He took that at eleven
Speaker 6: forty eight. He doesn't really give us a response. Besides,
Speaker 6: there's a lot here. I'm going to have to read
Speaker 6: it all thoroughly and get back to you. But we
Speaker 6: go about our days. I have to leave site after
Speaker 6: two of my appointments because I left my phone at
Speaker 6: a gas station, so I had to leave and come back.
Speaker 7: It's okay, we got it. It's all good. Yay. Two
Speaker 7: point fifty.
Speaker 6: One, I'm back on site. I am in my own office.
Speaker 6: I have co President Lee la Favor and one other
Speaker 6: member of management president, and they are firing me. They
Speaker 6: are handing me three right up. Is christ now The
Speaker 6: earliest of those write ups, or I should say I
Speaker 6: guess the oldest of those write ups are from May fourth,
Speaker 6: twenty twenty six, and it essentially is a write up
Speaker 6: that says Jackie, you were rude to management. Now let's
Speaker 6: talk about why. Let's talk about why that write up happened.
Speaker 6: You see, by that point in time, we were on
Speaker 6: the third pay period where we were all being given
Speaker 6: paper checks.
Speaker 7: After years, yeah, years of direct deposit, like long history
Speaker 7: of direct deposit only switched to paper checks.
Speaker 6: We were given paper checks. Those checks had been bouncing.
Speaker 7: The paychecks are bouncing. Yes, yeah, yes, yeah, that's not
Speaker 7: just Jackie May's either.
Speaker 6: Yes, Jesus Christ, that is true. That, like I'm what
Speaker 6: I will say is on average, per pay period, like
Speaker 6: a handful of us had their checks bounce.
Speaker 7: That will come into play later. That's foreshadowing. Oh boy.
Speaker 6: Yeah, so my check bounced once my bank account went okay,
Speaker 6: that's kind of sus my check bounced a second time.
Speaker 6: I currently don't have access to a bank account because
Speaker 6: my bank has labeled what has happened fraudulent activity, and
Speaker 6: my bank is investigating not me, because they've now figured
Speaker 6: out that it's not me that's doing it. I can
Speaker 6: prove the checks are.
Speaker 1: Bouncing, Jesus Christ. But yeah, but they still locked your
Speaker 1: bank account. Yeah, because the other people's checks bounts. Jesus Christ.
Speaker 7: Yeah, so we should. We should note here that we
Speaker 7: all were aware that Jackie May was locked out of
Speaker 7: fair bank account and experiencing financial hardship to the point
Speaker 7: where we actually did have some of our union members
Speaker 7: like donating food to Jackie May.
Speaker 6: Solidarity Network came through for me because that kept us fed.
Speaker 7: That kept us like we were able to have gas
Speaker 7: for that for the next like to get us to
Speaker 7: the next payday. Essentially, this this whole.
Speaker 6: Thing would set me back like a full pay period,
Speaker 6: Like I wouldn't get the last check cashed until we
Speaker 6: got to the next pay period on Friday, because we
Speaker 6: get paid every two weeks.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is something we've talked about on this
Speaker 1: show a lot, is that, like you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: I think most people listening to this show understand this
Speaker 1: on an intuitive level. But it's like if your paycheck
Speaker 1: fucking bounces, that's really fucking bad, Like yeah, holy shit,
Speaker 1: And it's like, yeah, like obviously that's going to cause
Speaker 1: like unbelievable like financial distress and it fucking sucks. I'm
Speaker 1: really sorry you've been having a deal with that on
Speaker 1: top of fucking everything else, because that's just, yeah, that
Speaker 1: that's something that can just like completely fuck your entire life.
Speaker 1: That's through no fault of your own. Yeah, it's literally
Speaker 1: your boss is fucking up.
Speaker 7: Yep. God.
Speaker 6: I want to note that still to this day, I
Speaker 6: do not have access to my bank account as far
Speaker 6: as I know, Jesus Christ, the last week has been
Speaker 6: really crazy and like I haven't been able to get
Speaker 6: out to like or anything to get something new set up.
Speaker 1: So that's just in the in the background, Like you're
Speaker 1: not even getting paid because the checks are boundary.
Speaker 7: Yes, And Jackie May was understandably distressed over this and
Speaker 7: expressed that frustration, and that was the cause of a
Speaker 7: write up that was used to justify termination. Right is
Speaker 7: that do I have that? Right, Jackie May? That is correct?
Speaker 6: That is the first light up, Christ, that right up
Speaker 6: from May fourth, righte up is the May fourth.
Speaker 1: I have heard of a lot of bullshit right ups
Speaker 1: in my time doing this job. Right up for being
Speaker 1: rude to management because you were talking to them about
Speaker 1: the fact that your paycheck bounced.
Speaker 7: That is the worst right up I have ever heard that.
Speaker 7: It's like that, I like even even including.
Speaker 1: Ones were like because obviously like people will just like
Speaker 1: make up shit to do a write up for but
Speaker 1: like that's like a special level of like, oh no,
Speaker 1: this did kind of happen, but it's because they fucked up.
Speaker 7: And bounced your paycheck. Jesus Christ. So, Jackie May, I
Speaker 7: believe you were recounting the write ups that Lela presented
Speaker 7: to you wrote that I'm I'm just losing my mind.
Speaker 7: That's so awful.
Speaker 6: So the second one is because they did a room inspection.
Speaker 1: It's really weird.
Speaker 6: They like doing room inspections when they want to remove somebody. Yeah,
Speaker 6: so there was a room inspection and they were like,
Speaker 6: your room's not okay, that's your statement.
Speaker 7: The third write up.
Speaker 6: Do you remember when I had a family emergency that
Speaker 6: they caused and I left sight because they caused a
Speaker 6: family emergency.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 6: My third and final write up was because I left
Speaker 6: early and they tried to say, well, Jackie, you didn't
Speaker 6: ask for our permission. Excuse me, Jackie May, you didn't
Speaker 6: ask for our permission to leave for the day. You
Speaker 6: just told me it was happening. And that was my
Speaker 6: full write up.
Speaker 7: I would like to add to this that I myself
Speaker 7: have multiple documented instances of having to leave work because
Speaker 7: of a health or mental health emergent situation. And there
Speaker 7: has never been a situation where I said, may I leave?
Speaker 7: It has always been I need to leave. And I
Speaker 7: have note noted and observed this with other employees as well.
Speaker 7: None of these incidents has ever culminated any write up
Speaker 7: or any sort of disciplinary action, So this is clearly
Speaker 7: inconsistent with ample precedent for the application of disciplinary standards.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're just just trying to find reasons to get
Speaker 1: three write offs, which is also like just a sign
Speaker 1: of how well y'all are like doing your jobs that like,
Speaker 1: because like normally employers have like random code infractions that
Speaker 1: are always just sort of laying around that they can
Speaker 1: pick up and be like hey, but it's like they
Speaker 1: couldn't even like find anything. They had to just like
Speaker 1: basically fabricate complete just like absolute nonsense.
Speaker 7: Yes, like Jesus Christ, am I recalling correctly, Jackie May
Speaker 7: that these are the first instances of any documented disciplineplinary
Speaker 7: action against you in your tenure at really electrolis. Yeah,
Speaker 7: I'm a good girl.
Speaker 6: I follow the rules and I do so very very well.
Speaker 7: So and then suddenly it's like, oh, here's here's three
Speaker 7: ride ups.
Speaker 10: Like again, like the the post.
Speaker 1: Facto right up for the Hi, I am upset that
Speaker 1: my paycheck bounce converce Jesus.
Speaker 7: Yeah. And so I will note that even that very
Speaker 7: first right up did take place after we were engaged
Speaker 7: in organizing activity, after management had demonstrated suspicion. Yeah, and
Speaker 7: all of these right ups were delivered within a few
Speaker 7: hours of the delivery of our petition for voluntary recognition, uh.
Speaker 1: Huh, which I will say looks not even just suspiciously
Speaker 1: like it looks like they have just like a giant
Speaker 1: polar bear sitting there, and the polar bear is union retaliation,
Speaker 1: and they've like painted a little clown face on it
Speaker 1: and gone, this is a clown nut retaliation for forming
Speaker 1: a union. Like no, that that is a polar bear,
Speaker 1: Like what are we doing here? Oh god, So what
Speaker 1: happened next, Jackie may.
Speaker 7: Oh gosh, what happened next? Well?
Speaker 6: Uh, you know, I had to clean out my office,
Speaker 6: so I grabbed the stuff that was important to me.
Speaker 6: I took my time. I wasn't angry. I didn't I
Speaker 6: really didn't speak throughout much of it, because at that
Speaker 6: point the best thing I could do is just take
Speaker 6: my recording not say anything. And as soon as I
Speaker 6: was out of the office, I sent a message to
Speaker 6: the union members that said, hey, I was just fired.
Speaker 6: They walked me out of the building. If we're going
Speaker 6: to do something about this, we need to do something
Speaker 6: about this now.
Speaker 7: And that was it. Two fifty one.
Speaker 6: By four oh one pm Wednesday afternoon, we had the
Speaker 6: rest of the union organize a organized in stage a
Speaker 6: walkout in solidarity.
Speaker 7: That's really quick. I'm gonna let Deja take over because
Speaker 7: I was outside. Yeah. So at the point that we
Speaker 7: found out Jackie May had been terminated, we called an
Speaker 7: emergency vote in our secure messaging platform that we used
Speaker 7: to coordinate things, and we voted in favor of doing
Speaker 7: a walkout once we had each finished with our obligations
Speaker 7: to patients. In fact, I actually had an appointment scheduled
Speaker 7: from three fifteen to three forty five that at that
Speaker 7: point I elected to continue that appointment, and I did so.
Speaker 7: I provided treatment as usual, cleanup as usual, chart noting
Speaker 7: as usual. Not a single person who engaged in this
Speaker 7: walkout did so without completing their scheduled treatment in that
Speaker 7: time slot. Once that appointment was finished and everything was
Speaker 7: in compliance within my room and the rooms of those
Speaker 7: who were not stuck in appointments, because we did have
Speaker 7: a couple of union members who were in longer appointments
Speaker 7: who were not able to join the walkout. Immediately, those
Speaker 7: of us who were free did walk out, And when
Speaker 7: we did this, we spoke directly to Lea La Favor,
Speaker 7: who was sitting at the reception desk, and said that
Speaker 7: we are staging a formal walkout in protest of the
Speaker 7: wrongful termination of Jackie May, and this is not a resignation,
Speaker 7: this is a legally protected action under the National Labor
Speaker 7: Relations Act. Leah then said that anyone who walked out
Speaker 7: that door must immediately surrender their keys and was no
Speaker 7: longer welcome on the premises.
Speaker 14: Now, Jesus Christ in terms of like open retaliation for
Speaker 14: union activity, like, oh boy.
Speaker 7: Yeah, we were, oh honestly, Mia, We were so gobsmacked
Speaker 7: at the just absurdity that she would take such a
Speaker 7: blatant action of retaliation that our response was, are you
Speaker 7: sure you want to do that? And the answer was yes.
Speaker 7: So initially we did not return our keys because we
Speaker 7: wanted to confer with somebody from the IWW. So we
Speaker 7: spoke with an IWW representative who advised us that their
Speaker 7: demand for the return of the keys was a lawful
Speaker 7: demand for the return of company property, and that we
Speaker 7: should comply with that. So we did. We gathered up
Speaker 7: our keys, we sent a representative back in to return them,
Speaker 7: and at that point we were officially on strike. We
Speaker 7: reunited with Jackie May in the parking lot. We started
Speaker 7: strategizing about how we were going to do this. IWW
Speaker 7: sent some folks our way to provide support. I took
Speaker 7: off to pick up some art supplies so that we
Speaker 7: could make signs, and just general like things like water
Speaker 7: and snacks. Our other union members who were currently inside
Speaker 7: treating patients, finished their appointments as scheduled and emerged when
Speaker 7: they were no longer responsible for any patient care also
Speaker 7: turned in their keys. At that point, we did have
Speaker 7: an IWW representative on scene who accompanied those employees back
Speaker 7: inside to return the keys and to confirm to Lela
Speaker 7: Favor directly that this is not a resignation, It cannot
Speaker 7: be construed as a resignation, that this is a protected
Speaker 7: organizing action, and that all we were doing was complying
Speaker 7: with a lawful demand for the return of company property.
Speaker 7: We have plenty of witnesses to this, regardless of any
Speaker 7: statement that they may choose to make do the contrary,
Speaker 7: which also I just want to know.
Speaker 1: This is the first time I've ever gotten timestamps lockouts
Speaker 1: of the best document in one of peace I've ever seen.
Speaker 7: Y'all are very organized. Oh yeah, Oh my god, No, no,
Speaker 7: we're not. We're not playing around. Yeah. So at that point, Jackie,
Speaker 7: may I think you can take it from here?
Speaker 6: Yeah, so real quick, I got to go back. We
Speaker 6: got I forgot a very important detail about Monday after
Speaker 6: after my coworker, union member and housemate was fired. In
Speaker 6: talking to Zeric Lee, I looked him in the eyes
Speaker 6: and I told him, don't do this. I said, please
Speaker 6: don't do this. Please don't call my bluff on this.
Speaker 6: Please don't make me do this. And we're here now.
Speaker 6: I jumping back to Wednesday, I had to go off site.
Speaker 6: I was meeting with some IWW members who were We
Speaker 6: were mainly discussing what we were going to do next
Speaker 6: in or what options we had in response to a
Speaker 6: mass firing. We spent a couple hours at that. I
Speaker 6: came away understanding a whole bunch more as to what
Speaker 6: we're doing. I returned to the shop, and I think
Speaker 6: I don't remember it very well because I was all
Speaker 6: emotion and adrenaline at that point in time.
Speaker 7: What I will say is that when on.
Speaker 6: A Lantry and Leola Favor were getting in their cars
Speaker 6: to leave site, I made sure that they heard me,
Speaker 6: that the block heard me, that a good chunk of
Speaker 6: downtown Washington could hear.
Speaker 7: My anger and my passion.
Speaker 6: If I don't know if you can tell in my
Speaker 6: voice right now, but I kind of went a little
Speaker 6: too hard.
Speaker 7: On it, and it's why I sound like I do now. Well,
Speaker 7: that's scratchy. It happens. I'm honestly surprised I can speak
Speaker 7: as well because there's been lots of chanting and singing
Speaker 7: and yelling. And yeah, because we have been on the
Speaker 7: picket line pretty much since then, every single day that
Speaker 7: the business is open. That is correct.
Speaker 1: Yeah, which I want to roll back for a second
Speaker 1: and just point out that like going from yeah, we
Speaker 1: all signed our union petitions and then we delivered it
Speaker 1: the next day, and then that same day everyone is
Speaker 1: on strike is astonishing.
Speaker 7: The pace of.
Speaker 1: It is absolutely incredible. And then also just it says
Speaker 1: a lot about the solidarity that you all have and
Speaker 1: all of your like you all's character that a yeah,
Speaker 1: there's just everyone does a walkout, goes on strike and
Speaker 1: then be Also, I think it speaks to like who
Speaker 1: you're fighting for here, both each other and also the
Speaker 1: fact that like all of you were so careful to
Speaker 1: make sure that your patients got their care is. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it is something that I think speaks It says a
Speaker 1: lot about the kind of people all of you are,
Speaker 1: and it says a lot about the kind of people
Speaker 1: that management is, that this is what they're doing to
Speaker 1: people who who both fight for each other and also
Speaker 1: care deeply about the patients and the people that they're
Speaker 1: taking care of.
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, I really do. I know Jackie May and
Speaker 7: I are the ones who are kind of operating as
Speaker 7: the mouthpiece, but I absolutely need to express the deepest,
Speaker 7: most sincere appreciation for all of the other union members
Speaker 7: because you know, not everybody involved in this has been
Speaker 7: as just like gung ho angry, like screw up, let's
Speaker 7: do this like this has been really difficult and nerve
Speaker 7: racking for a lot of them, but you know what,
Speaker 7: they have followed through and persevered, and not a single
Speaker 7: person who started this with us has switched sides or
Speaker 7: dropped out. Everybody has been so brave and so committed
Speaker 7: and showing up so fiercely, And yeah, we are also
Speaker 7: like our patients are still the most important thing. Like, yes,
Speaker 7: we've been picketing, but we have not been turning anybody
Speaker 7: away from crossing the picket line. We every patient that
Speaker 7: shows up to be treated by one of the very
Speaker 7: few people who are still on site providing care at
Speaker 7: really Lutchles's crosses the line with our complete blessing. And
Speaker 7: we are absolutely vocal and unequivocal about that that we
Speaker 7: are not trying to deny anybody care and in fact,
Speaker 7: like we are reaching out to other electrology providers out
Speaker 7: there to you know, try to offer some options to
Speaker 7: our patients who have chosen to forego their care out
Speaker 7: of solidarity. You know, we really we want to get
Speaker 7: back to work and go back to giving care or
Speaker 7: to our people, but management has made that impossible. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think one of the things that comes through really
Speaker 1: clearly here is like, yeah, how willing management is to
Speaker 1: just hurt people, and how dedicated all of you are
Speaker 1: to making sure that people you're caring.
Speaker 7: For get their care. And also.
Speaker 1: The just astonishing amount of bravery that it takes to
Speaker 1: not only go on strike and continue to be on strike,
Speaker 1: but also to do that in a situation where getting
Speaker 1: fired potentially means that you have to fight off paying
Speaker 1: the company that was employing you. Striking against twenty one
Speaker 1: thousand dollars. That is some of the worst conditions imaginable,
Speaker 1: and all of you did it anyways, and it's one
Speaker 1: of the most incredible things I've ever seen.
Speaker 7: Thank you. It's almost pride. It's twenty twenty six. We're
Speaker 7: making history here.
Speaker 6: This union is for trans people, buy, trans people to
Speaker 6: provide care, to buy and large other trends and queer people.
Speaker 6: And weirdly, I have to say thank you to our
Speaker 6: two bosses because if they hadn't have made the decisions
Speaker 6: that they made, things could have been so different. It
Speaker 6: didn't have to be this way, is what I have
Speaker 6: to say. It didn't have to be this way. But
Speaker 6: they chose this. They chose this, and we have chosen
Speaker 6: it every time, every opportunity to choose each other and
Speaker 6: to choose our community and go no, you're not going
Speaker 6: to bully one of us. We're not allowing us anymore.
Speaker 6: We are sticking together.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's it's been really incredible seeing the way
Speaker 1: that all of you have have taken this opportunity and
Speaker 1: taken all of these risks to fight for each other.
Speaker 1: There's a quote that I heard about you from managements
Speaker 1: about why they hired a bunch of trans people that
Speaker 1: I was wondering if you could tell the audience what
Speaker 1: that quote is, because Jesus Christ.
Speaker 7: It's a supermajority of transition, which is super rarely almost
Speaker 7: almost the entire workforce.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Yes, so this quote comes from president on a lantry
Speaker 6: from the fourth of July company barbecue held at their
Speaker 6: house in twenty twenty five. Oh no, with this shit,
Speaker 6: eat grin. She says, Yeah, if you pay a trans
Speaker 6: woman thirty dollars an hour and you give her health
Speaker 6: insurance in a little bit of respect, she will march
Speaker 6: through a brick wall for you.
Speaker 1: Jesus Christ.
Speaker 7: Like, there's two immediate obvious angles.
Speaker 1: One it's like, oh, so you like knew what you like,
Speaker 1: you knew what you were doing here, right, You were
Speaker 1: deliberately hiring You were deliberately hiring trans people because you thought,
Speaker 1: because you thought they were they would be easier to
Speaker 1: exploit and that's hideous.
Speaker 7: Those are your words. Yeah, I like that.
Speaker 1: That's that's yeah, this is this is my analysis of
Speaker 1: this is like, that's Jesus Christ. And then b also,
Speaker 1: this is this is really some like your chickens are
Speaker 1: coming home to roost. Like you you you have sown
Speaker 1: the wind and you are now reaping the whirlwind. Because
Speaker 1: it is true that trans people get treated like absolute shit,
Speaker 1: and it's very nice to get a job where you're
Speaker 1: not being treated like shit.
Speaker 7: But it's also true that if you decide.
Speaker 1: To fuck over a bunch of trans women, like, we
Speaker 1: will fight for each other, and trans people and preeople
Speaker 1: will fight for each other. And I think that's one
Speaker 1: of the sort of beautiful things about you know, as
Speaker 1: much as all of this absolutely fucking sucks, but like
Speaker 1: the fact that you were able to pull this many
Speaker 1: people off the line immediately and get a strike going,
Speaker 1: you know, that has like almost all of the clinicians
Speaker 1: are on strike. It's this real refutation of what management
Speaker 1: believed about trans people, which is like, no, actually, you
Speaker 1: can't just fucking sit there and exploit us, because we
Speaker 1: will organize and fight.
Speaker 7: Yeah, we'll fight for each other. We will, And I
Speaker 7: did want to stress to like the diversity of our workforce,
Speaker 7: like we are not all trans women. We become like
Speaker 7: a variety of backgrounds, a variety of ages, you know,
Speaker 7: Like I don't know how old the oldest among us is,
Speaker 7: but I know I'm forty three, and we have somebody
Speaker 7: as young as eighteen on the workforce.
Speaker 1: And they're all in the picky line together. It's beautiful.
Speaker 1: It's it's incredible. What is what is the state of
Speaker 1: things sort of right now? And what are you fighting
Speaker 1: for in the strike? And I guess how can people help?
Speaker 7: Big questions? Well, we are officially endorsed by the IWW.
Speaker 7: We are now IWW Industrial Union six'. Ten the picket is.
Speaker 7: Ongoing our fellow union members are on the picket line
Speaker 7: right now as we are recording. This at this, point
Speaker 7: management has elected not to bargain with. Us they have
Speaker 7: sent a copy and paste letter to all of us
Speaker 7: who were present for the walkout On may, twentieth basically
Speaker 7: requesting a response and making some demonstrably materially false allegations
Speaker 7: about the nature of the walkout and the conversations that
Speaker 7: we're had with. Management so we have a letter from
Speaker 7: the union that we are going to send from the
Speaker 7: union email address and will be endorsed by all the individual.
Speaker 7: Members but other than, that that's the only contact we've
Speaker 7: hat with. Management so they do not seem interested in
Speaker 7: bargaining or in resolving the. Strike they have not asked for.
Speaker 7: Demands our demands are fairly.
Speaker 1: Simple having management go no contact drud to strike is not,
Speaker 1: normal like completely literally no context for one. Email that's
Speaker 1: like weird by management drud toh strike, Standards like usually
Speaker 1: they're at least, communicating like sometimes they do, this but like.
Speaker 7: That's fucked by management.
Speaker 6: Standards SO i can explain why that. Is do you
Speaker 6: remember earlier when djus said that on a lantry had
Speaker 6: declared that this conversation was.
Speaker 7: Over it's still.
Speaker 11: Over it's still. Over oh my, god this conversation is still.
Speaker 11: Over because that's what she tells herself when she needs
Speaker 11: to feel in.
Speaker 7: Control so we would, assume SO i would assume that
Speaker 7: is that is.
Speaker 6: True i've been treating lists like game, theory and that
Speaker 6: opinion is purely. Speculative what's not speculative is our demands
Speaker 6: reinstatement of employment of all union, members including those terminated
Speaker 6: prior To may twentieth twenty twenty, six the expungement of
Speaker 6: all disciplinary records for all reinstated, employees backpay for all reinstated,
Speaker 6: employees the immediate cessation to any and all collections activities
Speaker 6: related to the outstanding debts owed to REAL U electrolysis
Speaker 6: by any and all union, members voluntary recognition of REAL
Speaker 6: U Electrolysis Workers UNITED iwwiu six,' ten and the immediate
Speaker 6: commencement of bargaining for a new labor contract wherein our
Speaker 6: right to strike shall not. Be curtailed.
Speaker 1: This is like one of the THINGS that i think
Speaker 1: about a lot in terms of just how unbelievably unreasonable management,
Speaker 1: is being which is that those are such unbelievably reasonable and,
Speaker 1: moderate DEMANDS like i, don't know like when you reach
Speaker 1: the point where like paychecks are bouncing because your bosses are,
Speaker 1: Fucking you like just just the amount of reasonableness and
Speaker 1: maturity that all of you are showing and the just
Speaker 1: mix of staggering incompetence and evil management.
Speaker 7: Is showing is it's.
Speaker 1: Really Staggering, And YEAH and i guess that leads me
Speaker 1: to the other part, of that, which, is yeah how
Speaker 1: can people?
Speaker 7: Support? Y'all yeah that's sort of like an ongoing thing
Speaker 7: we're working on. Putting together we don't really have like
Speaker 7: a web presence at the time of. This recording we
Speaker 7: do have an email address for the union that we've
Speaker 7: been directing, people towards and that is, all lowercase all
Speaker 7: one Word Real union electrolysis at gmail. Dot com and
Speaker 7: that's ELECTROLYSIS IS E L E C T R O
Speaker 7: L Y S. I.
Speaker 1: S yeah, we will we will put we'll put the
Speaker 1: email in the description and fantastic when media stuff and
Speaker 1: like social media stuff, gets online we will we'll put
Speaker 1: that in the.
Speaker 7: Description, too yeah, right now that is the best way to.
Speaker 7: Reach us believe you could also reach out TO the
Speaker 7: Iww and portland since that's so we're. Working with they
Speaker 7: do coordinate things like strike funds and financial assistance and,
Speaker 7: all that and so we do have their resources available,
Speaker 7: to us and that might be the most. Expedient way,
Speaker 7: but yeah we are working as fast as we can
Speaker 7: to get other, things going like. Internet presence this has
Speaker 7: all happens, so quickly. It's, astonishing also do you want
Speaker 7: people to show up to? Your pickets and, if so where? Is? That,
Speaker 7: oh please we.
Speaker 6: Would Love that the address for that is nine Oh
Speaker 6: Seven harney Street, In, Vancouver Washington, Downtown. Vancouver washington i'll say,
Speaker 6: that again it's nine Oh Seven. Harney, Street awesome i'm
Speaker 6: out show.
Speaker 7: Your support. Thank, You yeah and the picket does take
Speaker 7: place like at the mouth of the. PARKING lot i
Speaker 7: know there has been some confusion from some folks who
Speaker 7: wanted to come out as to where they. Meet us,
Speaker 7: you know it's On On. Harney street like just listen
Speaker 7: for the music and the cheers and you'll. Find.
Speaker 1: Us Yeah and i've been out to visit the picket
Speaker 1: line and it's it's a really. Sweet time everyone there
Speaker 1: is great and as always are bringing, Picket lines like
Speaker 1: just just being on a picket line just in support
Speaker 1: is like get. Incredible experience and also like you if
Speaker 1: you can like bring food and water, and stuff it's
Speaker 1: always something that helps.
Speaker 7: A lot and, oh, yes yeah. Thank you by, the,
Speaker 7: WAY yes i would like you also add as far as,
Speaker 7: support is it's not just us who, need support it's also. Our,
Speaker 7: Patients yeah so anybody who is practicing electrolysis In The
Speaker 7: Greater portland, vancouver area who is willing to provide care
Speaker 7: to our displaced patients please reach out to that email
Speaker 7: address as well so that we can direct them. To.
Speaker 1: You, Awesome Well DeAsia jack You made thank you so
Speaker 1: much for coming on. The show, AND yeah i hope
Speaker 1: we can talk to you fairly soon after.
Speaker 7: You win, Thank you thank you for, having us thank
Speaker 7: you for letting us tell. Our, story yeah of course.
Speaker 7: It's incredible this is such a big help and you
Speaker 7: you also are such an inspiration and such a treasure to.
Speaker 7: This Community like i've been doing so good and not
Speaker 7: thank girling over being on, your show BUT like i
Speaker 7: have a long, time listener and so this is, just
Speaker 7: like oh, my god oh, My god i'm talking to
Speaker 7: Me a walt. Right NOW well i think.
Speaker 1: YOU KNOW a i want, TO say i think what
Speaker 1: you're doing is significant and more inspiring than me going
Speaker 1: on and doing. A podcast like the fact that you
Speaker 1: you running this strike is just, fucking incredible and the
Speaker 1: fact that you're fighting for your people and fighting for
Speaker 1: your patience is a just unbelievable credit to all of
Speaker 1: you as people, and too, you know like just like
Speaker 1: to to two trans people, in general you are a
Speaker 1: credit to. Us all thank, YOU also i want, to
Speaker 1: say and this is more Evident something i've been saying
Speaker 1: on the show for a. Long time but like the
Speaker 1: people who form, unions there it's not some kind of
Speaker 1: just like special class. Of people it's it's, just literally,
Speaker 1: it's ordinary everyday people like you, the listener who are
Speaker 1: the people who join these things and build these booplets
Speaker 1: and fight.
Speaker 7: For them and.
Speaker 1: You know like you too can be the person who
Speaker 1: builds builds the union you were place and fights forward
Speaker 1: and wins. Creat end when we, work together when we,
Speaker 1: organize together when, we fight we can. Fucking win.
Speaker 6: We, can yeah if, WE'RE done i need to get
Speaker 6: out to the front LINE so i can get back
Speaker 6: to hollering at these people because they.
Speaker 7: Need Hollered, App yeah i'm all fired.
Speaker 15: Up Now, SO, minneapolis hi and Welcome, to outlaw a
Speaker 15: podcast about how the law is used to crush descent IN.
Speaker 4: The us i'm, Your. Host olive on the previous Episode,
Speaker 4: of Outlaw On It Could, happen here we zoomed in
Speaker 4: on legal repression of rapid respire bonders in Ice. Occupied
Speaker 4: minneapolis on, This episode i'm Joined, By bina Joey And,
Speaker 4: moe movement attorneys Based In, New york Illinois. And california in,
Speaker 4: this conversation we zoom out to talk about the larger
Speaker 4: trends and repression of RESISTANCE to ice activity across the
Speaker 4: country and how to prepare for the long, road ahead.
Speaker 16: From, the north From, the south.
Speaker 4: From everywhere Welcome. To outlaw, to start could you all,
Speaker 4: introduce yourselves the work you do and how it connects
Speaker 4: to the repression OF anti ice. Protest, ACTIVITY okay.
Speaker 5: I guess we're gonna start with the. Oldest here My Name's.
Speaker 5: JOEY mogul i am Based.
Speaker 9: IN chicago i am the Director Of movement Partnerships At Movement,
Speaker 9: law lab which is a national organization that is very
Speaker 9: much in the anti authoritarian fight in.
Speaker 5: The nation prior To Joining.
Speaker 9: Movement, LAW lab i was At The People's law office
Speaker 9: for over twenty, six YEARS where i did mostly civil
Speaker 9: rights litigation against law enforcement officials and criminal defense of
Speaker 9: police violence survivors as well as protesters, and organizers and
Speaker 9: at different points have been proud to represent several organizers
Speaker 9: and many movements seeking justice. And liberation i'm also Part
Speaker 9: Of Chicago Torture justice memorials and a board member Of
Speaker 9: The Chicago Torture justice center and very much involved in
Speaker 9: the movement, for, justice redress and particularly Reparations for chicago
Speaker 9: police torture survivors during. The surge Here, IN chicago i
Speaker 9: was proud to work with a group known As The
Speaker 9: Black Community, care collective serving as a coordinator of their.
Speaker 9: Legal committee and that was a group that was very
Speaker 9: much involved in the resistance and care work that was
Speaker 9: Happening During Operation, MIDWAIGHTLETS.
Speaker 12: Joe i don't know if you're the oldest, person HERE
Speaker 12: but i was referred to today as A gen, x
Speaker 12: loser if that makes you feel.
Speaker 6: Any better.
Speaker 4: My Name Is Maura.
Speaker 12: Meltzer cohen everybody CALLS. ME mo i am an attorney
Speaker 12: in private Practice In new YORK and i work in
Speaker 12: particular to defend people against the politically motivated abuse of the.
Speaker 12: LEGAL system i Also Teach Federal, Indian Law professional Responsibility
Speaker 12: and LAWYERING At cuny School of law to the world's
Speaker 12: best and most brilliant.
Speaker 17: Law students Hi everybody bina ahfa she. HER pronouns i
Speaker 17: also have referred to as an ELDER and i don't
Speaker 17: know when, that happened but here.
Speaker 5: WE are.
Speaker 17: I am currently an associate at a law From in
Speaker 17: la Called hatzel stormer RUNNIGAND where i practice civil rights
Speaker 17: impact litigation and also where we are external general counsel
Speaker 17: for some, movement Groups including Muslims For just Futures And
Speaker 17: jewish Boys. For peace before going To hadzel storm and
Speaker 17: switching to, CIVIL rights i was a state and federal
Speaker 17: public defender for nearly, a decade a state Defender In
Speaker 17: new york and a federal defender HERE. In la prior,
Speaker 17: TO that i practiced international law and animal, rights law
Speaker 17: and a lot of my motivation as well has been
Speaker 17: to support movements and organizers fighting back against the. State
Speaker 17: repression but that's been a big part of, my work
Speaker 17: giving Know your, rights trainings advising people and organizers and
Speaker 17: organizations on their rights and what they, you know what
Speaker 17: the law says.
Speaker 1: You can and.
Speaker 18: Can't do from a.
Speaker 4: Radical, lens well thank you all for being here over
Speaker 4: the past, few years from the Movement For palestinian liberation
Speaker 4: to the many ways people are organizing against ice and.
Speaker 4: Authoritarianism today i'm curious to start by just hearing a
Speaker 4: little bit about what broad shifts you're tracking right now
Speaker 4: in the state's playbook for. Crushing, DISSENT well I mean.
Speaker 9: I think that, we've seen and you're talking to people
Speaker 9: who've represented organizers and activists who have been prosecuted by
Speaker 9: state actors. FOR decades i think that what, we're seeing
Speaker 9: particularly with, this administration is the weaponization of, federal charges
Speaker 9: and we're seeing the weaponization of federal charges, en MASS
Speaker 9: and i think this is.
Speaker 5: By design we are seeing.
Speaker 9: That With The National Security presidential memorandum number seven Issued
Speaker 9: By president trump, and administration where they are wanting to
Speaker 9: enlist the Use Of Joint Terrorism task force to go
Speaker 9: after people they deem to be quote domestic, terrorists unquote
Speaker 9: and that means they are going after individuals who they
Speaker 9: claim have extreme viewpoints, on immigration radical, gender Ideology anti.
Speaker 9: AMERICAN sentiment i don't believe we agree with, these determinations and,
Speaker 9: in fact we absolutely oppose and object to.
Speaker 5: These determinations but these.
Speaker 9: Are individuals who do not agree with this administration's views
Speaker 9: or takes, on immigration, on gender on anti, black violence and.
Speaker 9: The rest and we see though that this administration is
Speaker 9: actually working hand in glove with. One another so after
Speaker 9: the issuance Of The National Security presidential memorana, over seven
Speaker 9: we Now have panbiani IN The Us attorney's office issuing
Speaker 9: This memorandum, december fourth, twenty five where they are basically
Speaker 9: calling On The joint Terriors And, task force they're calling on,
Speaker 9: federal agents and they're calling On the Department of justice
Speaker 9: to go after organizers and activists throughout. The nation they
Speaker 9: list twenty seven enumerated crimes and those memos things, like,
Speaker 9: rioting looting so, called, doxing swatting conspiracies to impede or
Speaker 9: assault law, enforcement officers destruction, of property and.
Speaker 5: The rest as well as trying to enlist the use
Speaker 5: of the.
Speaker 9: Irs and other tax crimes to go after organizers and
Speaker 9: organizations in. Several, ways essentially anyone who opposes this administration
Speaker 9: is someone in the.
Speaker 4: Target sites can you tell me more about what these
Speaker 4: federal charges are and what is new about what we're seeing?
Speaker 5: Right now so now what we've seen since the onset of,
Speaker 5: this administration so for over a year now we have
Speaker 5: seen the exponential rise and federal charges being lodged.
Speaker 9: AGAINST organizers i think that is very much a different
Speaker 9: landscape than we have seen. In DECADES and i don't
Speaker 9: want to say there hasn't been the use By the
Speaker 9: Department of justice to bring federal charges in, the past
Speaker 9: but not in this massive scale that we are currently
Speaker 9: seeing it. Right now and so what we are, SEEING
Speaker 9: is i, would say, in particular we're seeing, these assault
Speaker 9: impeding harassing, officer charges which IS. Eighteen usc section, one
Speaker 9: eleven being brought in scores across. The nation that is
Speaker 9: not something we typically have. Seen before we are also
Speaker 9: seeing charges of conspiracy to impede OFFICERS. Eighteen usc section two. Forty,
Speaker 9: one again that's not something we generally have. Seen, BEFORE
Speaker 9: generally i, can say, for example as someone who Was
Speaker 9: in chicago who was part of representing protesters who were
Speaker 9: Protesting The Democratic. National convention generally the federal government and federal.
Speaker 5: Agencies don't get involved in protest.
Speaker 9: Related activity but for arson cases prior To the, trump
Speaker 9: administration that playbook is out and this new playbook. Is
Speaker 9: in so we are absolutely seeing the federal government stepping
Speaker 9: in and engaging in this policing and persecution of protesters
Speaker 9: and organizers in a way that we have not. Seen before,
Speaker 9: that said there's a silver lining here is the federal
Speaker 9: government is overreaching in so many of, these cases and
Speaker 9: many of these charges are. Being dismissed many of these
Speaker 9: charges are being DECLINED by, us attorneys and there have
Speaker 9: been several not guilty VERDICTS in la as well As
Speaker 9: in chicago as Well. As miami, and FURTHER what i think,
Speaker 9: is STRIKING and i think that this is really unheard
Speaker 9: of for criminal defense attorneys, in particular is we're actually
Speaker 9: seeing grand juries refusing to indict in.
Speaker 5: These cases and given.
Speaker 9: How biased grand jury, investigations go how one sided, they
Speaker 9: are to have the grand juries come back and not
Speaker 9: return an indictment really is showing that people are resisting
Speaker 9: and they are not buying the government's slogan and lines
Speaker 9: and playbook, on this and they, are, saying no we're
Speaker 9: not going to put up. With this so while on
Speaker 9: the one hand it's a whole, new landscape we're also
Speaker 9: seeing the counterpart of, people resisting and that includes in the.
Speaker 4: Federal courts if the term grand jury is new, to
Speaker 4: you it's basically a special jury in federal criminal cases
Speaker 4: that is appointed to decide if there's enough evidence to
Speaker 4: bring the official, criminal charge the indictment against, the defendant
Speaker 4: but they're super rigged against. The defendant basically they, always
Speaker 4: indict and often the grand jury process is just an
Speaker 4: information gathering tool for, the government especially in, movement cases
Speaker 4: people get subpoena to testify before grand jury's in a
Speaker 4: way that often seems just like a phishing expedition because
Speaker 4: whatever they say can be used, against them and only
Speaker 4: the prosecution gets to present evidence to the. Grand jury
Speaker 4: there's a lot more to, say there but check out
Speaker 4: the show Notes and i'll link some really important conversations
Speaker 4: and resources about.
Speaker 12: GRAND jury's i think that's all, Exactly, right joey but
Speaker 12: it isn't one hundred percent. New right What the trump
Speaker 12: administration is doing is that they are able To Police
Speaker 12: first amendment, protected, identities beliefs and associations by trying to define, those,
Speaker 12: beliefs identities and associations. As terrorists and so there's a
Speaker 12: whole apparatus for fighting terrorism that they then can, pull
Speaker 12: in draw upon resources they, can use and legal authorities
Speaker 12: that they, can exercise as long as the thing that
Speaker 12: they're policing is something that can be. Called, terrorism well
Speaker 12: by defining all of these things, as terrorism that lets
Speaker 12: them sort of trigger all of these resources. And authorities
Speaker 12: those resources and authorities were not put in place by.
Speaker 12: This administration they were put In place post nine.
Speaker 19: To eleven they were put in Place By.
Speaker 12: Barack obama they were put in Place By, joe. Biden
Speaker 12: right and so this is not a problem With the.
Speaker 12: Trump administration this is a problem with the. Surveillance state
Speaker 12: this is a problem with consolidating federal police authority and
Speaker 12: making it easier and easier for the federal law enforcement
Speaker 12: apparatus to assert jurisdiction over what we would normally understand
Speaker 12: to be state level matters such as garden.
Speaker 19: Variety protest and so the shift.
Speaker 12: Is not one of kind as much as it is
Speaker 12: a shift in scope where we're seeing the federal, government
Speaker 12: TREATING as, i said garden variety protest conduct as though
Speaker 12: it is militant. Revolutionary, ACTION now i.
Speaker 9: Totally agree, with that and to underscore, your point not
Speaker 9: a single law has needed to. Be passed there's been
Speaker 9: no legislation that's needed to be changed in order to
Speaker 9: effectuate these, prosecutions whatsoever let alone this.
Speaker 5: Immigration enforcement this all.
Speaker 9: Pre Existed the trump administrationmistration hasn't passed the.
Speaker 5: Sing LAW so i absolutely agree.
Speaker 9: With you i'm just saying, you're right the garden variety
Speaker 9: level of prosecutions we, haven't seen.
Speaker 5: And it's the scale.
Speaker 9: Of this, but again we, absolutely know, for Example the
Speaker 9: biden administration Pursued The face act against Individuals in florida
Speaker 9: regarding one of these. False clinics, you know it's not
Speaker 9: that these tools weren't. USED before i just think the
Speaker 9: scope and scale is not what.
Speaker 5: We've, seen YEAH and i.
Speaker 12: Totally AGREE and i think it's important to note that
Speaker 12: the fact that the law hasn't changed, is important not
Speaker 12: simply because the laws already existed to bring, these prosecutions
Speaker 12: but because the law actually, hasn't changed which Means The
Speaker 12: first amendment remains, in effect which means that a lot of,
Speaker 12: these prosecutions as you, Pointed, out joey are going nowhere
Speaker 12: because they actually can't really be sustained under the.
Speaker 17: Current, regime yeah the scale and the aggressiveness and, THE
Speaker 17: scope i think is something we haven't really dealt, with before.
Speaker 18: You know in terms of it being.
Speaker 17: NOT new, i mean we know the founding of, this
Speaker 17: country and it's not a. Just SYSTEM and i think
Speaker 17: if we just also start, from that that is the
Speaker 17: system that protects property and white nationalism and violence and power,
Speaker 17: and CAPITALISM then i think we can sort of like
Speaker 17: see where these powers originated from and where the structure.
Speaker 17: Originated from and we've also seen that used against, you
Speaker 17: know radical, black activists.
Speaker 18: Against The american. Indian movement.
Speaker 17: You know so like a lot of these things that we're,
Speaker 17: seeing now we're tested on communities, of color, you know
Speaker 17: prior to, seeing okay, what works what, doesn't work and
Speaker 17: then bringing THIS surge i think to, our communities, YOU
Speaker 17: know i think in addition to, YOU know I think
Speaker 17: majory was saying About The, face act that is something
Speaker 17: we haven't really seen prosecutions Under The face, act before
Speaker 17: right Because The face act is actually technically to protect
Speaker 17: access to.
Speaker 18: Abortion CLINICS and i think that one thing that.
Speaker 17: This administration is doing is finding creative different ways to
Speaker 17: manipulate the laws that are already terrible to go after
Speaker 17: folks in a way that we haven't. Seen before like mo,
Speaker 17: was saying like so much of the work that we've
Speaker 17: done defending protesters, and movements a lot of it. Is stayed,
Speaker 17: of course, you know some has always, been federal but
Speaker 17: a lot is. Usually state and to then see these
Speaker 17: federal not only prosecutions For The face, ACT word, i
Speaker 17: know we'll get into the material support prosecutions but also like,
Speaker 17: civil LITIGATION which i think is something we've never, not
Speaker 17: never but really we're not prepared for or dealt with
Speaker 17: as a movement before these massive civil pieces of litigation
Speaker 17: that while on the one hand are brought mostly by
Speaker 17: private Actors like, zionist actors we know that they're really
Speaker 17: coordinated by and with the administration because then the administration
Speaker 17: has mimicked bringing these same lawsuits against these very same
Speaker 17: activists for the same causes when we know that they're,
Speaker 17: in coordination AND so i think that's also really important
Speaker 17: to know is that the, civil component, you know. The movement,
Speaker 17: of course, like criminals where we've always been the most
Speaker 17: concerned is someone liberty is on, the lines of life
Speaker 17: is on.
Speaker 19: The line but.
Speaker 17: Civil is also like this slow death right of time
Speaker 17: and money and just draining ORGANIZATIONS that i think is
Speaker 17: something that we've now had to.
Speaker 4: Really grasp katskill follow, Up, question binat can you break
Speaker 4: down for people who are listening and really not in the,
Speaker 4: legal world why a civil case impacts, someone's life why
Speaker 4: civil cases against activists are really disruptive. To, movements sure
Speaker 4: there are.
Speaker 17: Many ways so when a civil, CASE lands, i mean
Speaker 17: first you don't have the right to free counsel like
Speaker 17: you do with a. Criminal case it's not guaranteed in.
Speaker 17: The constitution you're not facing prison time, and incarceration so
Speaker 17: you're not. Guaranteed that so one you have to find
Speaker 17: either free counsel or you can pay for someone to.
Speaker 17: Defend you and when the, lawsuit lands there's so many things.
Speaker 17: That happen there's an affirmative obligation, for you as the
Speaker 17: one who's, being sued to preserve any evidence that could
Speaker 17: be relevant to. The case that is completely antithetical to
Speaker 17: a lot of.
Speaker 18: Movements do we don't like save documents and then turn
Speaker 18: them over to the.
Speaker 17: Other side we're going to, you know keep our work
Speaker 17: internal and our organizing and who we. Work with and
Speaker 17: civil lawsuits really make that really difficult because you have
Speaker 17: to turn over discovery if it gets that far in,
Speaker 17: the case and you can't, you know, delete things and
Speaker 17: you can't let things get deleted luck, on signal and if,
Speaker 17: you know you can, be sanctioned and there's all these
Speaker 17: things that could happen if they find out that, that
Speaker 17: happened and then you're, subject to, you know other things like,
Speaker 17: being deposed, being questioned by the, other side a lot
Speaker 17: things you don't want to talk about and that are
Speaker 17: really antithetical to what we what, we do and these
Speaker 17: cases can go on for years, and years and even if,
Speaker 17: you win there can, be appeals there can, you know
Speaker 17: there's there's just so much that doesn't feel like it
Speaker 17: ever ends with, civil litigation and so much where people,
Speaker 17: you know even just have moved on in, their Lives
Speaker 17: like i've moved a, different city you have a different,
Speaker 17: job now but you're still always tied back to this.
Speaker 17: Civil case and there's no sort of like right to
Speaker 17: a speedy trial in a, civil case right that's that's
Speaker 17: for a. Criminal case so all of, this Stuff and
Speaker 17: i'm sure there's many Other things i'm not mentioning that
Speaker 17: you have to go through or that impact your life
Speaker 17: once you're being, civilly soon but a lot, of that,
Speaker 17: you know it's it's not again like things.
Speaker 18: That we have really dealt with as a.
Speaker 17: Movement before and, you know, really importantly people don't have
Speaker 17: the money to pay for lawyers for years and years,
Speaker 17: and years and it's really expensive to do civil litigation and.
Speaker 17: Civil defense it goes. On forever you have to do
Speaker 17: so many different pieces of discovery and, you know motions
Speaker 17: and like all of that is so much, more involved
Speaker 17: and IT really i think part of the tactic is to.
Speaker 17: Bankrupt organizations that's a big part of why these actors
Speaker 17: are bringing these.
Speaker 18: CIVIL suits.
Speaker 12: I just want to intervene strategically at this moment to
Speaker 12: say that Everything that Joey and bina are talking about
Speaker 12: is true and critical, and important and we need to
Speaker 12: be so alert to the way that these federal apparatuses are.
Speaker 19: Being deployed against.
Speaker 12: Our COMMUNITIES but i also want to say that one
Speaker 12: of the things we have seen over the last couple
Speaker 12: of YEARS that i think is so important and we
Speaker 12: have to hang on to for, dear life is that when,
Speaker 12: we fight. We win and so what we're starting to,
Speaker 12: see now, you know we just saw some of my
Speaker 12: impressive and beloved Colleagues At counity School of law are
Speaker 12: litigating a case right now in the federal Courts About
Speaker 12: columbia university's repression of. Student activists and what we're seeing
Speaker 12: is the court coming back with these rulings that Say
Speaker 12: anti zionism is not. Hate Speech, columbia university acting at
Speaker 12: the behest of the executive makes them subject to the
Speaker 12: constraints Of The. First amendment it's potentially violative Of The
Speaker 12: first amendment to discipline students for engaging in. Speech right
Speaker 12: we're seeing people fight these, federal cases both criminal, and civil.
Speaker 12: And Winning as, joey mentioned we're seeing grand juries declining
Speaker 12: to issue indictments or to authorize prosecutors to. Issue INDICTMENTS
Speaker 12: so i do want, to say, you know we really
Speaker 12: do see the power of communities taking on that, legal
Speaker 12: battle fighting with, you know our, community movement legal people
Speaker 12: and meeting that challenge. Head ON and, i think as
Speaker 12: devastating and exhausting as, it is and as terrible as
Speaker 12: the consequences and the risks, REALLY are i do want
Speaker 12: to say we do see people having a lot, of
Speaker 12: courage marshaling a lot of resources and energy and.
Speaker 19: Winning reliably.
Speaker 4: Thank YOU and, I know joey you started talking a
Speaker 4: little bit about what we've been seeing broadly across the
Speaker 4: country and how the state has been repressing specifically anti.
Speaker 4: ICE activity i know you've been Based in chicago and
Speaker 4: particularly tuned into what's, happening there and it's been Similar,
Speaker 4: in minneapolis where it's been a lot OF eighteen usc
Speaker 4: one eleven cases, federal charges and part of what is
Speaker 4: coming up is just unpreparedness for movements to meet and
Speaker 4: defend against these kinds. Of charges and also similar vein
Speaker 4: to THE question i, just asked why it matters for
Speaker 4: people's lives and form of movements that it's federal charges
Speaker 4: coming down instead of STATE.
Speaker 17: Charges FINA when i transitioned from state to, federal defense
Speaker 17: my reaction, Was, like state it's always horrible just being
Speaker 17: in the criminal system. And fighting it's Very like David,
Speaker 17: And GOLIATH but i FELT like i had a more
Speaker 17: of a fighting chance in. State COURT when i got.
Speaker 17: To federal it was shocking how much worse it felt for,
Speaker 17: my clients how restricted you are in.
Speaker 18: A state it.
Speaker 17: Really feels like when you're doing, a trial you have
Speaker 17: the power to kind of run. The show right, of
Speaker 17: course a judge can like shoot down many motions, for
Speaker 17: experts for like for, you know doing, certain defenses but
Speaker 17: federal is so much more constrained in, my experience where
Speaker 17: federal judges want to have to so much, more POWER
Speaker 17: and I think i wasn't also just didn't appreciate how
Speaker 17: much more power federal judges had and how much more
Speaker 17: they were willing to. Wield it BUT also i think
Speaker 17: in terms of the charges, are heavier plea barreeting and
Speaker 17: sentencing is so much harder.
Speaker 18: And heavier you're. Very restricted even though the.
Speaker 17: Sentencing guidelines, for instance are no, longer mandatory that's what
Speaker 17: everyone judges and prosecutors still mostly. Go by there's so
Speaker 17: many more. Mandatory minimums it's so easy to catch a federal,
Speaker 17: charge too, you know things like even just, gun possession
Speaker 17: right because a gun might have been Manufactured in texas
Speaker 17: and then Bought, in california which most people wouldn't is a,
Speaker 17: federal offense but it can be. Charged federally just all of,
Speaker 17: THOSE factors i THINK just i realized how much harder
Speaker 17: it was in federal court for my clients to have a.
Speaker 17: Fighting chance but you know that, BEING said i don't
Speaker 17: mean to make states sound like it's this like set,
Speaker 17: of gold like, oh great and we're.
Speaker 18: Going to do whatever we want. In state not.
Speaker 17: AT all i FELT like i could. FIGHT more i
Speaker 17: had more leeway to fight. In state, You KNOW federal
Speaker 17: i think is a whole is a whole. Other animal
Speaker 17: that was a.
Speaker 4: Great answer and if either of you don't have anything
Speaker 4: more pressing TO add i would turn us back to
Speaker 4: just the question of if there's anything else we wanted
Speaker 4: to talk about trends in charging across the country of anti. Ice,
Speaker 4: PROTEST well.
Speaker 7: I know i.
Speaker 9: JUST don't I think i want to echo Something that moways,
Speaker 9: talked About and i'm not trying to leave, it OUT
Speaker 9: but i do think the resistance this is, so AMAZING
Speaker 9: and i think that, you know essentially people are being
Speaker 9: Arrested For first, amendment activity whether it's it's VIDEO recording
Speaker 9: ICE and cbp, agents actions whether it's foul, going officers
Speaker 9: whether it's announcing their presence. With whistles we've seen, People
Speaker 9: arrested we've seen, people detain we've seen. People interrogated sometimes,
Speaker 9: they're charged sometimes. They're NOT but i think what's striking
Speaker 9: is we've seen so many of these cases, fall apart
Speaker 9: and to, be honest But For, Prairie, land texas which is,
Speaker 9: devastating loss the federal government has lost in many of.
Speaker 9: These cases they've been able to charge or the cases have,
Speaker 9: been dismissed but even the ones that have gone.
Speaker 5: To trial they.
Speaker 9: Have lost and that is not SOMETHING that i think
Speaker 9: we're used to seeing in federal. Criminal, cases generally when
Speaker 9: someone's charged in federal criminal court is being and, was explaining,
Speaker 9: you know so few of the cases go to trial
Speaker 9: because so many people need to take a, plea bargain
Speaker 9: and the idea that you're going to get to go
Speaker 9: to trial and win seems. Very slim that landscape seems
Speaker 9: to be changing, as well AND so i think what
Speaker 9: we are seeing in this moment is the people, are
Speaker 9: resisting they are continuing to do This Important first, amendment
Speaker 9: work and they are not, being intimidated they are not.
Speaker 9: Being DETERRED and, i think, you know all of you
Speaker 9: and your neighbors and your friends and Folks in minnesota
Speaker 9: have proven that, to us AND so i think we're
Speaker 9: going to continue to see this type of work. Go
Speaker 9: on i'm not seeing this level of surges at this
Speaker 9: point Ongoing. POST minnesota i don't know if we're going
Speaker 9: to see a return to this prior to. THE election
Speaker 9: i don't know if we're going to see this If
Speaker 9: The insurrection act, Is invoked but RIGHT now i don't
Speaker 9: see this ongoing surge activity in terms of.
Speaker 5: Immigration enforcement it's an.
Speaker 4: Interesting point the thing you hear about federal criminal cases
Speaker 4: is like the federal government can be investigating somebody, for
Speaker 4: years so by the time that they bring, the charges
Speaker 4: they have such a strong case against them it makes
Speaker 4: it impossible to win versus what at least we've Seen
Speaker 4: in minnesota where it felt like some of these cases
Speaker 4: were being brought like pretty quickly and kind, of sloppily
Speaker 4: which is just a little bit of a different maybe
Speaker 4: a little bit more hopeful for people, in movements even
Speaker 4: though there's still are federal judges and procedural limitations that
Speaker 4: make federal cases scarier and worse to go. Through, oftentimes
Speaker 4: now for a depressing thing that, is happening let's talk
Speaker 4: about prairieland the recent trial and guilty verdict that recently.
Speaker 4: Came down i'd love to hear how you all are
Speaker 4: thinking about this case and what it means for movements.
Speaker 12: GOING forward i think, right now the defense just filed post.
Speaker 12: Trial briefing i've looked at some, of IT and i
Speaker 12: think there are a lot of really, strong arguments, you
Speaker 12: know for setting aside, the verdict and, you know whether
Speaker 12: or not the judge agrees with me is of course
Speaker 12: not a, foregone conclusion but there are a lot of
Speaker 12: really strong, legal arguments and this really. Isn't over there's
Speaker 12: so much post trial and post, conviction relief so many
Speaker 12: appeals that remained to, be done and so much support
Speaker 12: that can, be offered and so much solidarity that can.
Speaker 19: BE offered i think that this case.
Speaker 12: Was unusual it was a departure from what we would
Speaker 12: typically see in that so many people got pulled into
Speaker 12: this prosecution under sort of a, conspiracy, theory right a
Speaker 12: theory that all of the people at what was a
Speaker 12: really quotitian sort of noise demo in front OF a
Speaker 12: ic detention facility somehow spontaneously became a conspiracy to do.
Speaker 12: SERIOUS violence i think this is a little bit like
Speaker 12: the federal government trying to take a second bite at
Speaker 12: the apple that they took a run At after trump's
Speaker 12: first inauguration when they tried to prosecute like almost three
Speaker 12: hundred people for conspiracy on the basis that they were
Speaker 12: all dressed in black block and in this environment politically
Speaker 12: and in that Jurisdiction, in texas it seems like that
Speaker 12: theory had legs in a way that it DIDN'T. In
Speaker 12: dc so one of the things that happened in the
Speaker 12: j twenty case was that the prosecution withheld a bunch of,
Speaker 12: exculpatory evidence and based ON some foya disclosures that a,
Speaker 12: journalist obtained it looks like actually a very similar thing
Speaker 12: may have happened Here With, prairie land where the prosecution
Speaker 12: may have withheld evidence that would be favorable to.
Speaker 19: The defense and That's called.
Speaker 12: Brady material based On A supreme court case about having
Speaker 12: to turn over information and evidence that would tend to
Speaker 12: undermine the prosecution or that would be favorable to someone facing.
Speaker 12: Criminal charges all of that kind, of information if it's
Speaker 12: in the custody or control of, law enforcement has to
Speaker 12: be disclosed to the defendants and to. Defense counsel and
Speaker 12: it appears that there is some material that would fit
Speaker 12: that bill that was not turned over to the prairieland
Speaker 12: defendants or. Their attorneys and so you know that as
Speaker 12: well as an extremely important, argument against, you know letting this,
Speaker 12: conviction stand and the, trial itself there were just a lot.
Speaker 12: Of irregularities not only was this an, unusual prosecution but
Speaker 12: it was characterized. By irregularities very, early on the judge
Speaker 12: declared a mistrial on the basis OF a t shirt
Speaker 12: that one of the defense attorneys was. Wearing right there
Speaker 12: seemed to be a lot of conflict among. The jurors
Speaker 12: there were all kinds of inconsistent statements among the witnesses for.
Speaker 20: The.
Speaker 12: Prosecution right so there's all kinds of things that happen
Speaker 12: during this trial that do give me a certain amount
Speaker 12: of Hope That prairie land is the exception and not.
Speaker 12: The rule, YOU know i think the government is, boundary
Speaker 12: Testing but i'm not convinced that they're going to find
Speaker 12: that this is an effective approach to prosecuting, protest although
Speaker 12: OF course i want to be, very clear it's been
Speaker 12: devastating for.
Speaker 4: THIS community i hear that there's some uncertainty about the
Speaker 4: long term impacts, Of this and with that, in mind
Speaker 4: is there anything any of you just want to add
Speaker 4: what you think movements should be paying attention to here. Going,
Speaker 4: forward also it's connection to the expansion of the fundamentally
Speaker 4: racist or on terror, legal regime and it's turn towards
Speaker 4: activist communities in.
Speaker 17: NEW ways i can jump in, And start i'm really
Speaker 17: glad you brought up the War on terror as part
Speaker 17: of the history.
Speaker 18: Of this and, YOU know I think i mentioned.
Speaker 17: Previously a lot of these tactics that, we see like we've,
Speaker 17: all said are, not new and much of it has
Speaker 17: been tested on communities, of color the way that war
Speaker 17: weapons are tested on the battlefield and then brought to
Speaker 17: our domestic police, forces here same thing, with, Tactics right
Speaker 17: and so the war on terror like primarily Against the
Speaker 17: muslim community In the muslim world a lot Of non
Speaker 17: arab Countries like Afghanistan, and pakistan, you know, of course
Speaker 17: is a, racist endeavor but it does sort of like
Speaker 17: give us a picture of the larger sort of like
Speaker 17: colonial project of what, you know what. We're FACING but
Speaker 17: i think there's also just a lot then that we
Speaker 17: can take from history and take to our movements and
Speaker 17: LEARNED from, i think while, it's DEVASTATING and i AGREE
Speaker 17: with moa Think the prairie, line conviction there's a lot
Speaker 17: of bases, for appeal including being prohibited from putting on
Speaker 17: a self defense argument or friends of, OTHERS argument i
Speaker 17: think we can learn a lot from the way that
Speaker 17: our movements were targeted in, this, way right where like,
Speaker 17: you know a lot of it was from text messages,
Speaker 17: in SIGNAL and i think it's just like it's also
Speaker 17: a really important thing To note while signals are very
Speaker 17: important app, to communicate it's, not, bulletproof right and it's
Speaker 17: only as secure as you, Make it and it is
Speaker 17: still something that's, in writing AND so I think i
Speaker 17: always try to remind, folks like if you can open
Speaker 17: your phone right now and you can see your, signal
Speaker 17: messages someone else, can't. Do RIGHT so i think a
Speaker 17: lot of people are under the impression that is. Completely
Speaker 17: BULLETPROOF and i think it's also calls the, question, of like,
Speaker 17: you know how, we organize and also like does everything
Speaker 17: we do need to.
Speaker 18: Go and text?
Speaker 17: Or writing, you know is there more value to like
Speaker 17: actually talking, with people because a lot of things that
Speaker 17: were SAID casually i think in writing look much worse
Speaker 17: and much more serious than if you would just have
Speaker 17: a conversation talking, ideas through which again is an elder
Speaker 17: idea in the nineties and we didn't have.
Speaker 12: CELL phones i want to kind of piggyback on some
Speaker 12: thing you started, to say which is you said, these
Speaker 12: tactics these strategies have been tested on communities, of COLOR
Speaker 12: and i think the significance of, that, statement like we
Speaker 12: can't overestimate how important it is to, understand that and,
Speaker 12: you know you can watch it happening in. REAL time,
Speaker 12: i mean obviously we've seen this kind of state repression
Speaker 12: right since the days of, like, abolitionists right but we
Speaker 12: saw it really becoming very salient During the nixon administration,
Speaker 12: and thereafter and, you Know The Black panther Party And
Speaker 12: Black liberation army were subjected. To this black communities were
Speaker 12: then subjected, to This And puerto rican independence communities were subjected,
Speaker 12: to this and you can see it all the way through,
Speaker 12: the eighties even with like the so called, gang legislation
Speaker 12: right targeting of quote.
Speaker 4: Gang activity when you say these communities have been subjected,
Speaker 4: to this what do? You mean what's?
Speaker 12: The, this sorry have been subjected to have been targeted
Speaker 12: and surveiled and criminalized by the state for what we
Speaker 12: would understand To Be first amendment, protected, identities, beliefs associations, and,
Speaker 12: Activities right and so people have been targeted for surveillance
Speaker 12: and criminalization on the basis of their, political beliefs on
Speaker 12: the basis of their associations, and activities in a way
Speaker 12: that we now see being recuperated against more explicitly political.
Speaker 12: Protest movements and we saw this During The no dapple
Speaker 12: Movement At, standing rock we saw the revival of a
Speaker 12: federal charge called.
Speaker 19: CIVIL disorder i.
Speaker 12: Think the last time it had been used had been
Speaker 12: during the Standoff at wounded me in nineteen.
Speaker 5: Seventy, four right.
Speaker 12: It was like a federal charge that seems like it
Speaker 12: was only used against people struggling for. Indigenous sovereignty and
Speaker 12: then we saw it being used again During the floyd
Speaker 12: uprisings in, twenty twenty and that was the first time
Speaker 12: we saw it really being used against people who were
Speaker 12: not explicitly involved in struggles for.
Speaker 17: Indigenous sovereignty to give like, an example, you know in
Speaker 17: terms of like what strategies are tested On the muslim
Speaker 17: community or communities. Of color the case that a lot
Speaker 17: of us within the movement at least are still haunted
Speaker 17: by is Against The Holy land foundation And The Holy, land,
Speaker 17: Five right and it's shocking now to realize how many
Speaker 17: people outside of our circles don't actually really know about
Speaker 17: that case or even like what material. SUPPORT is i
Speaker 17: think only when it became not much bigger and being
Speaker 17: weaponized in more creative ways are people sort.
Speaker 18: Of realizing but, you know back for back.
Speaker 17: In the day When The Holy land foundation and founders
Speaker 17: were targeted and, then convicted and their convictions were upheld
Speaker 17: for just raising money for families in. A gaza it
Speaker 17: was so devastating and crushing to communities, into organizing but
Speaker 17: it really DIDN'T get i think the broad attention that it,
Speaker 17: should have right or this other targeting of like we're
Speaker 17: using informants In the muslim community just going back, through
Speaker 17: HISTORY and i think we can learn from. Them NOW but,
Speaker 17: i think, you know if we had had more attention
Speaker 17: on those cases than what, you know communities of color were,
Speaker 17: GOING through i think there's a lot we can learn
Speaker 17: from or could have organized. Stronger against having now seen
Speaker 17: what is doing to communities, OF.
Speaker 9: Color i think if there's a lesson for us to
Speaker 9: learn from this is that, you know post nine, to
Speaker 9: eleven there was this massive Persecution of muslim communities and
Speaker 9: we really saw this apparatus of the material support for
Speaker 9: terrorism being used against individuals and as, you say being
Speaker 9: not often in isolation. Without support and part of that's
Speaker 9: because when you get charged with material support of, you
Speaker 9: know not only are you facing massive criminal, like sentencing
Speaker 9: but you know your organization is being, Taken down you're
Speaker 9: getting debateked you cannot you know be able to hold,
Speaker 9: financial funds and what happens is people don't want to
Speaker 9: get ensnared in that. Criminal prosecution that often people don't
Speaker 9: come out and make those. Solidarity statements you become. Essentially
Speaker 9: RADIOACTIVE and, i think, you Know what i'm hopeful is
Speaker 9: that we can find new ways to resist this material
Speaker 9: support for, terrorism apparatus which is being wielded in WAYS
Speaker 9: that i think are unjust and unfair and illegal.
Speaker 5: And WRONG and i hope.
Speaker 9: There's ways that we can think about how we're going to,
Speaker 9: counter that whether it's In The, Prairie land texas case
Speaker 9: or in other cases. AS well i think we need
Speaker 9: to get back to the roots of, that law and
Speaker 9: we need to think about really who's, it serving who's,
Speaker 9: it protecting and who is, it destroying so that we
Speaker 9: can really rectify the harms that have come.
Speaker 7: From it.
Speaker 4: Material support for terrorism chargers are not the only uncommon
Speaker 4: charges for seeing being brought against anti ice protesters Here.
Speaker 4: In minneapolis we've also seen the use Of The face
Speaker 4: act and federal threat and cyber. Stocking charges just, to
Speaker 4: note the use Of The face act is Specifically Against
Speaker 4: Black lives matter protesters here who staged a protest in,
Speaker 4: a CHURCH and i don't think expected to have this
Speaker 4: random act that nobody knew existed come out and now
Speaker 4: they're facing super. Serious charges i'd love just for listeners
Speaker 4: to understand a little bit what these. Charges are if
Speaker 4: there's other unusual charges you've seen around, the country what
Speaker 4: do people actually need to understand? About them people who
Speaker 4: are going out. To protest how much is it important
Speaker 4: to know about these different things that can.
Speaker 7: Pop up So The.
Speaker 12: Face act is a piece of legislation that initially was
Speaker 12: being pushed for by reproductive, justice groups and it was
Speaker 12: supposed to criminalize people interfering with folks who were attempting
Speaker 12: to access reproductive health care because at the time that
Speaker 12: it was being, lobbied for there was a pretty active,
Speaker 12: pro life, you know anti choice movement that was physically
Speaker 12: making it difficult for people who are seeking reproductive healthcare
Speaker 12: to gain access. To clinics and at, the time people
Speaker 12: who work in criminal defense and who work with criminalized populations, Were,
Speaker 12: like hey this legislation is going to be mobilized against
Speaker 12: other kinds, of protesters and it's probably going to be
Speaker 12: primarily dangerous to people who are perceived as antagonistic to, State.
Speaker 19: Interests and what do?
Speaker 12: You know that is what has happened because one of,
Speaker 12: the things one of the concessions that was made in
Speaker 12: order to get that piece of, legislation passed, was that
Speaker 12: in addition to criminalizing obstructing access to reproductive, health clinics
Speaker 12: it also criminalized obstructing access to so called places of
Speaker 12: worship for specifically people who are attempting to access those
Speaker 12: places in order to Engage In first amendment protected. Religious
Speaker 12: expression so now one of the things we're seeing is
Speaker 12: people using their churches or their synagogues to do things
Speaker 12: like have political meetings that are not particularly, religious meetings
Speaker 12: or to do things like sell real Estate in palestine
Speaker 12: to which they do not have title and cannot.
Speaker 19: Lawfully sell and then when.
Speaker 12: People show up to protest, those activities the federal government
Speaker 12: tries to charge them with violations Of The face act.
Speaker 4: In like the. Simplest way what do people need? To,
Speaker 4: know like there's one outcome here that, everyone's like oh,
Speaker 4: MY god i didn't know the protesting in a church
Speaker 4: could get me federal charges for like handing out some
Speaker 4: flyers and using. A megaphone what ELSE don't? I know about,
Speaker 4: other risks the random acts that can. Come up how
Speaker 4: do you talk to people about that who are thinking about. Taking,
Speaker 4: ACTION yeah.
Speaker 9: I think that that's, the again the changing landscape here
Speaker 9: and seeing the exponential rise of. FEDERAL charges i think
Speaker 9: that when organizers are thinking about the actions, THEY'RE pursuing
Speaker 9: i think they need to talk to attorneys and legal
Speaker 9: workers and others who have both an understanding of what
Speaker 9: their local laws and state, laws are but what the
Speaker 9: federal laws are. As well, AND again i think that's
Speaker 9: just a different changing of.
Speaker 5: THE landscape i do want, to say.
Speaker 9: You know there's a lot of important organizing that it
Speaker 9: has happened in churches and synagogues, and TEMPLES and i
Speaker 9: don't want to, Discount THAT but i do also want
Speaker 9: TO say i think again we're seeing a misuse of,
Speaker 9: this law.
Speaker 5: Particularly The, face act and, it's very.
Speaker 9: Very scary but, YOU know i think that there are
Speaker 9: some really incredible lawyers and Organizers in MINNESOTA who i
Speaker 9: think are fears and who are going to fight this to,
Speaker 9: the END and i have hoped that they will come. Out,
Speaker 9: unscathed YEAH.
Speaker 12: And i do want to clarify it isn't just protesting at.
Speaker 12: A church they have to be able to allege that
Speaker 12: people were by force or threat, of force or by,
Speaker 12: physical obstruction, intentionally, injuring intimidating in interfear with people who
Speaker 12: are trying to get healthcare or people who are trying.
Speaker 12: To worship so it isn't simply having a protest at
Speaker 12: a place. Of worship That Remains first amendment. PROTECTED behavior
Speaker 12: i think in addition With The, face act it has a.
Speaker 12: Civil component so again like, material support it also has a,
Speaker 12: civil component and many people are getting civilly sued and
Speaker 12: so a lot Of these zionist groups have also brought
Speaker 12: suits based On The face act for people protesting the
Speaker 12: illegal Sale of palestinian land inside a synagogue and that's
Speaker 12: a breach international law and so many. Other crimes and
Speaker 12: just also to think of just the disgusting use of,
Speaker 12: this law and you think of sort of the historical
Speaker 12: targeting of black churches and like still to, this day
Speaker 12: like it's just such a slap in. The face, but
Speaker 12: REGARDLESS but i think also alive to your, question, about
Speaker 12: yeah like a lot of this can catch people off
Speaker 12: CARD like i didn't what, YOU know i, didn't know
Speaker 12: and even, you know even if, they know they really,
Speaker 12: can't prove, you know access that they might still try
Speaker 12: to either sue you or. PROSECUTE you i think the
Speaker 12: thing is like none of us are ever going to
Speaker 12: know all the laws that are on the books and
Speaker 12: the way that they might creatively try to. Use, them so,
Speaker 12: YOU know i don't want people to get paralynes into
Speaker 12: not doing anything because it's, it is, you. Know scary
Speaker 12: there's just like you, don't know, you know what what
Speaker 12: laws are out there that can, be used you know
Speaker 12: in some way now you know a new way. Against
Speaker 12: YOU but i Think what joey and mo both have
Speaker 12: said is right about connecting to lawyers and, legal workers
Speaker 12: just being tight on, our organizing knowing what our, rights
Speaker 12: are and knowing when you what to.
Speaker 17: Do when you encounter, law enforcement which is nothing and.
Speaker 17: Say nothing, You know like all OF that i think is,
Speaker 17: like hopefully like universally at least like minimizes the harm
Speaker 17: that can happen.
Speaker 18: To you it's, not bulletproof right as, we know it's
Speaker 18: not meant.
Speaker 17: To BE but, i, think like, YOU know i don't
Speaker 17: want folks to like be like AND now i DON'T,
Speaker 17: know x like this other random thing, you know could
Speaker 17: be brought, against me and that may happen and continue,
Speaker 17: to happen but that's what we, all do right like
Speaker 17: sort of like with this message, of hope is that
Speaker 17: what we do is, we fight and like we, have
Speaker 17: fought like, State repression like our answers, have thought, State
Speaker 17: repression we're not going. To stop they're going to, keep
Speaker 17: adapting and so. Are we this resistance is not going,
Speaker 17: to stop even if we have to figure out a
Speaker 17: new way to resist based on what.
Speaker 4: Comes next to ask, you all as a final question
Speaker 4: with your repression forecasting hats on anything you want to
Speaker 4: add about how movements can prepare to meet this repression
Speaker 4: that is already happening and that which is.
Speaker 12: TO come i can't see, the FUTURE as i tell
Speaker 12: my clients, EVERY day i can't see.
Speaker 19: THE future i am but, a lawyer not.
Speaker 12: A WIZARD what i can tell you is we know
Speaker 12: a lot about what the state has done in, the
Speaker 12: past and we have a lot of good models to.
Speaker 12: Look to we have a rich ancestry of resistance and of,
Speaker 12: movement lawyering of movement lawyers who know how to work
Speaker 12: in community with people who are doing the. Heavy lifting
Speaker 12: we have made it this Far as, Bina said we're
Speaker 12: just going to continue. To FIGHT and i do hold
Speaker 12: out a lot, of hope NOT because i have any
Speaker 12: faith in the law itself or believe that justice is
Speaker 12: on the table in, our courts but because we are
Speaker 12: actually really good, at solidarity and because we have over
Speaker 12: a century of evidence that solidarity is not just good for,
Speaker 12: our communities it's.
Speaker 19: Legally effective. That's it don't talk.
Speaker 17: TO cops i might go with the cheesy answer, ROUND
Speaker 17: that i think what communities and movements can do to
Speaker 17: prepare is a lot, of this right is like coming together,
Speaker 17: and strategizing especially amongst, the lawyers so uplifting what mo
Speaker 17: said is like showing solidarity with communities and lawyers.
Speaker 18: Showing UP but i, think also And like Joey.
Speaker 17: And moly really model this for me as well as
Speaker 17: lawyers showing up with each other and like, working together
Speaker 17: because it is a lonely fight a lot of times
Speaker 17: being a lawyer when you're not in a circle of
Speaker 17: solidarity or folks of radical politics or who like also
Speaker 17: believe in including each other, in fighting, you know and doing,
Speaker 17: this work and that is always going to be a,
Speaker 17: losing fight right if you're doing it. By yourself you're
Speaker 17: not doing it with each other and with the communities
Speaker 17: and with other. Radical lawyers that's not what, we, Do
Speaker 17: right that's also like not the point of. This work
Speaker 17: it's like one sole lawyer to fight it.
Speaker 18: And win it's.
Speaker 17: About like us doing, it collectively and that's the way that.
Speaker 17: We win and, you know just uplifting like, You three
Speaker 17: like just even having this Conversation and Joey and mo
Speaker 17: for all the work that you do and the work
Speaker 17: that you. Do inclusively, you know that like gives me
Speaker 17: HOPE because I know i've had like many.
Speaker 18: Every, day look i just SIT and i feel. Like alone,
Speaker 18: i'm like.
Speaker 17: Oh, My GOD like i have to first with the method.
Speaker 17: OF hope i have to find some way to. Keep
Speaker 17: going it's, really hard And sometimes i'm JUST like i.
Speaker 17: Don't know and then and then we have these conversations
Speaker 17: and like, all, right yeah like we have those moments
Speaker 17: we get, you know like we, feel defeated but like
Speaker 17: we have, each other, you know and like our movements
Speaker 17: didn't come, this far, you know our ancestors didn't come
Speaker 17: this far for us to.
Speaker 18: Give, Up, NOW yeah.
Speaker 9: I think i would just echo What both bina and mo.
Speaker 9: HAVE said, i, mean, obviously black indigenous and other communities
Speaker 9: of color have faced fascism and authoritarianism before and have resisted.
Speaker 9: And survived this is not the first time in this
Speaker 9: country we've, seen this and it's likely not.
Speaker 5: Going to be.
Speaker 9: The LAST but i, THINK, again i, YOU know i would,
Speaker 9: say that, you Know As marian, kama says, you know
Speaker 9: hope is, a discipline and we have to keep pouring
Speaker 9: into hope and we can't have to.
Speaker 5: Keep RESISTING so i do have a lot.
Speaker 9: Of HOPE and I and I and i feel like
Speaker 9: AGAIN like i want to look at what the organiz
Speaker 9: have done and how far, we've come even in terms
Speaker 9: of this.
Speaker 5: Latest administration, YOU.
Speaker 9: Know i would say, last year after the onset of,
Speaker 9: THIS administration i don't think we were seeing a lot,
Speaker 9: of resistance not a lot of, Public resistance and instead
Speaker 9: we were seeing law firms cave and deciding to create
Speaker 9: agreements with. The administration we are seeing educational, institutions come,
Speaker 9: you know cave and come up with a lot. Of
Speaker 9: agreements but what we did see is we saw the.
Speaker 9: People resisting and that HAPPENED in la and that Happened,
Speaker 9: in chicago and that certainly Happened in Minneapolis And saint Paul.
Speaker 9: And MINNESOTA so i, take HEART and i think what
Speaker 9: we need to continue to think about doing is how
Speaker 9: people are going to do the mutual aid work and the.
Speaker 5: CARE work i think we need to continue to do
Speaker 5: the know your rights and know your. Risks work.
Speaker 9: THAT'S essential i think a big thing we need to
Speaker 9: continue to think about Is The insurrection act and getting
Speaker 9: information out About The, insurrection act which may be invoked
Speaker 9: prior to. This election, YOU know i think that the
Speaker 9: ongoing work that people have been, doing again it's about
Speaker 9: the people and the power of the people that have
Speaker 9: gotten us. This far but even if we look at,
Speaker 9: what happened, you know this past week and eight million
Speaker 9: people coming out to protest, and resist those numbers didn't
Speaker 9: exist over a, Year ago.
Speaker 5: AND so i feel like the resistance.
Speaker 9: Is happening people are coming together and despite, INSTITUTIONAL failures
Speaker 9: i think the movement has, grown SIGNIFICANTLY and i think
Speaker 9: we have to even look at the last year and
Speaker 9: a half to see how far. We've come AND so
Speaker 9: i have hope that we'll go, even FURTHER and i
Speaker 9: hope that we're not returning to the. Status quo and
Speaker 9: in fact we are actually dreaming the world we want to,
Speaker 9: live in and that we are going to fight for
Speaker 9: the world we want to, live in and that this
Speaker 9: is an opportunity for us to let things go and
Speaker 9: for us to create A.
Speaker 4: New well thank you all for, those hopeful hope full forecasting.
Speaker 4: Advice answers you don't always get, that twist which is,
Speaker 4: really LOVELY and i feel like it's been something that's
Speaker 4: on my mind a lot Here. In minnesota that's sometimes
Speaker 4: when things are the worst and you're of the closest
Speaker 4: to violence. And terror it's also when you see how
Speaker 4: powerful people are and how powerful resistance.
Speaker 9: CAN be, i mean these are long fights and these are. Long,
Speaker 9: HAULS yeah i think that's.
Speaker 12: Kind of the, lesson is, you know not to get
Speaker 12: all peer k, a vote but you are not obligated
Speaker 12: to finish.
Speaker 19: The work but neither are you free to. Abandon it
Speaker 19: like these are.
Speaker 12: Long, fights yeah they are fights that we don't. Win
Speaker 12: alone it's not possible or desirable to win these.
Speaker 5: Fights, Alone right.
Speaker 12: THEY'RE generational i mean they last. Multiple generations so you
Speaker 12: know this like the ever receding horizon of. Real, democracy
Speaker 12: right there's no forecast that could even be adequate because
Speaker 12: it's gonna go on for. So LONG but i think
Speaker 12: the advice is always, the, same right just don't.
Speaker 17: Toxic, cups yeah what she said is generally and you're
Speaker 17: not free to just abandon.
Speaker 18: The work mom IS.
Speaker 17: Like i would like write that on a wall SOMEWHERE
Speaker 17: because i think things people jump, In right it's, like okay,
Speaker 17: this hot let's. Do it but like once it's not
Speaker 17: a hot, new thing, you know people kind of move
Speaker 17: on to the next say it's, like, No none that's
Speaker 17: when we need folks to stick in it and. You
Speaker 17: CAN'T and i think that's just a really important, like lesson.
Speaker 19: Send me your.
Speaker 12: Mailing address i'm gonna send You a i'm gonna send you.
Speaker 17: A poster or can you? CROCHET it i know you.
Speaker 17: Can crochet you gotta with the flowers. And, everything yeah
Speaker 17: thank you all. So much you guys.
Speaker 5: ARE awesome i love. You guys it's.
Speaker 17: SO great i feel like got a, Therapy session, LIKE
Speaker 17: oh i feel so much, better off.
Speaker 18: But like what, we're doing like where, we are AND
Speaker 18: like i.
Speaker 2: HAVE hope.
Speaker 1: I med a cake one of.
Speaker 4: You found thank you for listening to Outlaw on it could.
Speaker 4: Happen here if you liked, the episode check out The
Speaker 4: show outlaw wherever you get your podcasts, and, rate review
Speaker 4: And follow outlaw Pod on Instagram And blue sky for anti,
Speaker 4: repression updates news and stories that you might want. To
Speaker 4: know From, the North, from south.
Speaker 7: From everywhere.
Speaker 20: This is It could. Happen Here, executive disorder our weekly
Speaker 20: newscast covering what's happening In The, white house the, crumbling
Speaker 20: world and what it means.
Speaker 7: For You I'm.
Speaker 20: Garrison davis today and Joined By, James Stout, mia Wong And.
Speaker 20: Robert evans this episode recovering the Week of may Twentieth
Speaker 20: to may. Twenty, seventh james some small widow idy bitty
Speaker 20: news items, To.
Speaker 10: Start yeah talk about the, little things and then we
Speaker 10: talk about some things in. More Detail the trump administration
Speaker 10: has lifted a cap on refugee admissions by. Ten thousand
Speaker 10: this sounds like good news you realize it is to
Speaker 10: allow More White south africans to seek refuge In The
Speaker 10: united States.
Speaker 7: Of america.
Speaker 10: Great stuff hey. THIS country i Found The federal. Register
Speaker 10: thing it's still, the documents still it, up THERE but
Speaker 10: i will link to the place where the document will
Speaker 10: probably Be.
Speaker 7: The dutch will never.
Speaker 10: Be Forgiven The united states has also continued its campaign
Speaker 10: of strikes In. The pacific the most recent one left
Speaker 10: two survivors along with one man who.
Speaker 7: Has Killed.
Speaker 10: So there's guardian published a piece a while ago about
Speaker 10: what happened to some survivors who were taken BY the us.
Speaker 10: Military BOAT the us military boarded, their vessel stole their food,
Speaker 10: and beer and then Transports Them, twelve salvador where they
Speaker 10: were questioned and then released to immigration orites and eventually. Sent,
Speaker 10: HOME basically i guess effectively deported for Illegally Entering el
Speaker 10: salvador after they were brought there BY the us By The. United,
Speaker 10: states yeah AFTER the. Us, bomber yeah so we don't
Speaker 10: know what happened to these. TWO people I Guess coast
Speaker 10: guide activated so to rescue after. The strike so hopefully they.
Speaker 10: Found them it's better than them drowning. Out There their
Speaker 10: Department Of homeland security is auto extending the temporary protected Status,
Speaker 10: for lebanon not because they affirmatively chose to, do so
Speaker 10: but because they failed to renewer terminate it, in time so.
Speaker 10: Auto Extended Mark, wayne MULLIN the, dhs secretary has claimed
Speaker 10: That the Department of Home and security is drawing up
Speaker 10: plans to not process incoming international flights in. Sanctuary.
Speaker 20: Cities, what yeah this is ahead Of The, world, Cup,
Speaker 20: right yes.
Speaker 7: So let's play a.
Speaker 21: Little clip we are currently which were not, initiate yet
Speaker 21: but we're currently drawing up plans, to, say listen these
Speaker 21: sanctuary cities where the local radical left democrats aren't allowing
Speaker 21: us to do our job and enforce, federal laws then
Speaker 21: we shouldn't be processing international flights into their into their.
Speaker 21: Cities either because they don't want us to, enforce immigration
Speaker 21: but they want us to process immigration at. Their facilities
Speaker 21: nothing about that makes sense.
Speaker 10: To me the line, HE'S drawing i GUESS what i
Speaker 10: want to guess at is that he's claiming that in
Speaker 10: places where police WON'T support ice by removing protesters from
Speaker 10: the STREETS outside, ice Facilities The united states is not
Speaker 10: going to allow international travelers to enter at airports in.
Speaker 10: Those cities there's a lot to break. Down There like
Speaker 10: i'm not really going to because it suffice it to
Speaker 10: say that this would cause.
Speaker 20: Absolute chaos that's not going, to happen because that's going
Speaker 20: to heavily. Disrupt capital that's that's just that's just.
Speaker 10: Not, happen yeah it's not really possible for this. To,
Speaker 10: work like it's not that they can divert to non, woke,
Speaker 10: airports right that's not how air.
Speaker 1: Travel works is?
Speaker 10: This silly but, It's Interesting like mullin has been a
Speaker 10: bit less kind of crazy and he's like posting. His,
Speaker 10: policy yeah but maybe he was just getting.
Speaker 20: WARMED up i Mean, he's yeah he obviously does not
Speaker 20: understand who his drew. Master is if he actually thinks
Speaker 20: that this is something that.
Speaker 7: Can, happen YEAH he i don't know if he.
Speaker 10: Does what he's just Talking To fox news and yeah
Speaker 10: said what He Thought fox news wanted. To hear mullin
Speaker 10: was talking about this in response to a large and
Speaker 10: growing Protest At, delaney hall which is a private detention Facility,
Speaker 10: In Newark, new jersey where three hundred detainees have been
Speaker 10: on hunger strike Since. Last friday mullin has versusly claimed
Speaker 10: that they chose to do This Some Memorial, day friday,
Speaker 10: of Course Not, memorial day and that they want their.
Speaker 10: Ethnic food people in detention are entitled to religiously, appropriate
Speaker 10: food but that's not what's, happening, here right people are
Speaker 10: on hunger strike because of the conditions in. The Facility
Speaker 10: New Jersey Senator, andy kim who's been there for a
Speaker 10: while with protesters that he got pepper balled and. Tear
Speaker 10: gast he entered the facility to, inspect it and he
Speaker 10: made a thread on egg, dot com the, everything website
Speaker 10: where he detailed horrible, abuses inside including a woman who
Speaker 10: had been denied obg wayncare and a pregnant woman who
Speaker 10: had miscarried inside. THE facility dhs has claimed in response,
Speaker 10: that quote, IN fact ice has highed detention standards IN
Speaker 10: most us prisons that HOLD actual. Us citizens that's an
Speaker 10: incredible thing to say when someone has just detailed the
Speaker 10: fact that people are having un accompanied miscarriages in your
Speaker 10: facility and, being, like well we do worse Things to.
Speaker 10: Americans here there are really a lot of. Layers There,
Speaker 10: on monday one of the leaders of the hunger strike
Speaker 10: was transferred out of the Facility in newark to. Another,
Speaker 10: facility right it's not uncommon for people to be moved
Speaker 10: around in immigration detention for, various reasons right to include.
Speaker 7: In, this case.
Speaker 10: They're, ORGANIZING finally thepcw has published documents detailing a large
Speaker 10: hall of undeclared chemical weapons that it Found.
Speaker 20: In syria what IS the moszpw for those who may
Speaker 20: not be, Acronym aware.
Speaker 10: It's the organization For the Prohibition Of. Chemical weapons why this. Is,
Speaker 10: interesting firstly there has been open source reporting detailing The
Speaker 10: use biaside of chemical weapons against his own population, for
Speaker 10: years and this. Confirms, that secondly there is a particularly
Speaker 10: disgusting faction of the left In The united states and
Speaker 10: elsewhere which has spent years denying that this is, the
Speaker 10: case spent years effectively running cover FOR a sad murdering
Speaker 10: little children with. Chemical weapons we had very good evidence
Speaker 10: that this was. Happening before we now have incontrovertible proof
Speaker 10: That as sad have the ability to do this and did.
Speaker 10: Do this we already know that he, did it but
Speaker 10: it should really make you question the legitimacy of any
Speaker 10: media source that continues or ever has denied THAT a
Speaker 10: sad used, chemical weapons or indeed any politician or. Political
Speaker 10: actor there's no instance in which it's okay to use
Speaker 10: chemical weapons, against, civilians period and anyone apologizing, for that in,
Speaker 10: my opinion it is.
Speaker 20: Pretty despicable in, other news about two, WEEKS Ago abc
Speaker 20: news nuked the five thirty, eight archive scrubbing all the
Speaker 20: articles with links now redirecting TO The abc. Politics homepage
Speaker 20: as annoying as some of the five thirty eight type people,
Speaker 20: can be this is a bad removal of like documented
Speaker 20: informations going all the way back to two thousand. And
Speaker 20: eight it is UNFORTUNATE that abc has. Done this there
Speaker 20: still is third party archives of these articles that you,
Speaker 20: can find but it will make actually referencing information held
Speaker 20: or previously held on five thirty eight much more difficult.
Speaker 1: Going, forward YEAH and i also just want to say
Speaker 1: this is a continuous problem with storing information On, the
Speaker 1: internet which, Is, that yeah information On the internet is.
Speaker 1: Incredibly ephemeral it is very easy for entire people's lives
Speaker 1: work to simply be deleted because a parent company decided
Speaker 1: to make. A move, and yeah there's a bunch of
Speaker 1: people who do good work on, digital preservation but all
Speaker 1: of the work that we produce online is significantly more
Speaker 1: ephemeral than we tend to.
Speaker 7: Think.
Speaker 2: About, yeah Yeah As jamie loftus said in her last
Speaker 2: regular podcast that she did, for us this is a
Speaker 2: future piece of, lost, media right which is true of
Speaker 2: almost everything anyone puts up On, the.
Speaker 7: Internet and.
Speaker 2: There are groups of people who have worked over the
Speaker 2: years to try and, mitigate that Including The internet archive
Speaker 2: and The Way, back machine and they are currently, under
Speaker 2: attack as is from Within The, wikipedia foundation as we'll talk,
Speaker 2: About later, but, like yeah it's the only way to
Speaker 2: make this stuff not be aphemeral and to actually like
Speaker 2: keep a permanent archive of culture is to support the people.
Speaker 2: Doing that and the people doing that are never going
Speaker 2: to be entirely, cool with, for example the people who,
Speaker 2: make movies the people who put, out newspapers and there's
Speaker 2: an extent to which they just need the backing of
Speaker 2: us and of our government to say you can't stop
Speaker 2: them from doing that because it's in the best needs
Speaker 2: of the, human race and.
Speaker 1: That's not going to happen right.
Speaker 20: Now anyway, Last Weekend fox news reported that socialist Live
Speaker 20: Streamer hassan piker and the leader of the Activist Organization
Speaker 20: code pink have been subpoena by the federal government as
Speaker 20: a part of an investigation into a humanitarian aid Trip
Speaker 20: to cuba with a bunch of left wing activists and Influencers.
Speaker 20: Last march fox claimed this investigation is part of a
Speaker 20: quote broader dragnet inveloping as many As forty american citizens
Speaker 20: who Joined the marxist Convoy to. Havana unquote after Returning
Speaker 20: from cuba two, months AGO twenty us citizens were briefly
Speaker 20: detained and interrogated at, the border and eighteen of them
Speaker 20: had their phones and other devices SEIZED by cbp agents
Speaker 20: At The Miami INTERNATIONAL. Airport yep fox supported that these
Speaker 20: new subpoenas Show that piker is now caught in a
Speaker 20: quote federal inquiry into whether activists who Traveled to Cuba
Speaker 20: in MARCH violated us sanctioned laws, through, financing coordination or
Speaker 20: delivery of Goods, to cuba including potential Contacts with cuban
Speaker 20: government personnel or entities on, the island also claiming that
Speaker 20: this investigation is part of a quote broader effort by Officials, At,
Speaker 20: treasury State And justice departments to curb malign foreign influence
Speaker 20: operations Inside The united. States Unquote hassan piker has said
Speaker 20: that he learned about the Subpoena through fox's, media reporting
Speaker 20: and he has not yet been contacted by. The government
Speaker 20: fox referred to these subpoenas as quote unquote, Administrative subpoenas
Speaker 20: and it turns Out Neither hassan Piker Nor code pink
Speaker 20: have actually been subpoenaed by. The government they've they've not
Speaker 20: actually been served by the. Federal government. Oh Boy, on
Speaker 20: tuesday the Leader Of code Pink Told ryan grimm that
Speaker 20: she received an email From The Treasury department's Office Of
Speaker 20: Foreign assets control requesting information about the Trip, to cuba
Speaker 20: suggesting that there is some, probe here but it's not technically,
Speaker 20: a subpoena and there's still no indication Yet If hassan
Speaker 20: piker has received a similar request.
Speaker 1: For information, and like this.
Speaker 2: Is bad it's not unusual if you go to a
Speaker 2: Place like Cuba that, american citizens they're certainly not supposed.
Speaker 2: To trades it too directly to be stopped in questions
Speaker 2: of the way to, the country and it's now not
Speaker 2: unusual for devices to.
Speaker 1: Be taken none of this.
Speaker 2: Is good like the fact that they could just take
Speaker 2: your shit at the border. Remains bad, but Yeah as garrison,
Speaker 2: has said, right now this is.
Speaker 1: Not what a lot of initial reporting made it. Look Like.
Speaker 20: Quite, Yeah no, if anything It seems fox is trying to,
Speaker 20: encourage this this broader drag net and manufacturer consent for
Speaker 20: there being subpoenas for people on this humanitarian age and.
Speaker 7: Influencer, Trip, yeah james Speaking.
Speaker 10: Of, Cuba yeah so let's talk a little bit about
Speaker 10: people seeking to become permanent residents Of The, united states
Speaker 10: and we'll get To the cuba tie in a. Minute
Speaker 10: here SO a uscis policy memorandum has a vice uscif's
Speaker 10: officers that MOST non us citizens is seeking to adjust
Speaker 10: their status will now have to LEAVE the usa to.
Speaker 10: Do so what it's adjusting adjusting generally when somebody who
Speaker 10: is here on a non immigrant visa or on another
Speaker 10: immigration status are just to become a, permanent resident right
Speaker 10: and previously they could do that Inside The, united states
Speaker 10: or they could go to a consulate and they could
Speaker 10: apply for a green kind of a consulate Outside The.
Speaker 10: United states now they're, saying that aside from cases of
Speaker 10: what they are calling, extraordinary discretion they're going to make
Speaker 10: people leave and apply from Outside The.
Speaker 7: United states that.
Speaker 10: Is bad what is worse is the way that this
Speaker 10: overlaps with their. Existing, policies right people already applying facing.
Speaker 10: Huge delays i've everbotten on, that before and now new
Speaker 10: applicants and possibly people who are halfway through their process
Speaker 10: will have. To leave that will often mean spouses leaving
Speaker 10: their spouse and their citizen children if they have them
Speaker 10: for an unknown amount. Of, time right this could take
Speaker 10: you very realistic to expect this to. Take years this
Speaker 10: dovetails with existing visa bands on seventy. Five countries what
Speaker 10: that means is that people from many of these countries
Speaker 10: cannot obtain any. Immigrant visas there are some very small
Speaker 10: exceptions to these. Visa bands in the case of the
Speaker 10: twenty countries which are on a, complete band there are
Speaker 10: exceptions for athletes Attending The world cup Or, the olympics. For, Example,
Speaker 10: right So, like iran it's one of. Those Countries the
Speaker 10: iranian team can Attend The. World cup they're actually Staying,
Speaker 10: in tijuana but crossing the border to come and do.
Speaker 10: Their matches for, everyone, else though if you leave and
Speaker 10: then you have to come back to collect a, green
Speaker 10: card re enter on an, immigrant visa then you get your.
Speaker 7: Green.
Speaker 10: Card right if you are prohibited from having an immigrant
Speaker 10: visa because you are a citizen of, these countries then
Speaker 10: you cannot re enter and thus you cannot get your.
Speaker 10: Green card and thus this is a de facto bar
Speaker 10: to people from those travel bank countries getting a green
Speaker 10: card In The united, states now which is. VERY bad
Speaker 10: i also noticed that there is not an EXEMPTION that
Speaker 10: i can see For The Cuban adjustment. Act Here The
Speaker 10: Cuban adjustment act is a special exploited Pathway for cubans
Speaker 10: that allows them to adjust a legal permanent. Residence status
Speaker 10: it used to be, two years now it's. A year
Speaker 10: this is particularly interesting GIVEN the usa is talking so
Speaker 10: much about how terrible things Are, in cuba but also
Speaker 10: saying if you've made it here and you're safe and
Speaker 10: you feel safer and you want, to stay. You can't
Speaker 10: you have to go Back to cuba AND apply i
Speaker 10: guess it. To adjust it seems, very hypocritical but there's.
Speaker 19: Nothing.
Speaker 10: New YEAH so i spoke to a couple of folks
Speaker 10: who would have expertise, in THIS and i don't have
Speaker 10: their permission to sign, their name. So won't there isn't
Speaker 10: a consulate Option for cubans seeking. To adjust they can't
Speaker 10: do it outside of the country And The cuban adjustment
Speaker 10: they have to do it. The countries they think that
Speaker 10: this would entirely not, Include them but like, everything else
Speaker 10: it's a little bit unclear and we.
Speaker 7: Will, FIND out.
Speaker 10: I guess, LAST month uscis also removed categorical deferred ACTION for.
Speaker 10: SIJS individuals sijs is special immigrant. Juvenile status it's granted
Speaker 10: to people IN the us who are Inside The united
Speaker 10: states without status who have been subject, to, abuse abandonment
Speaker 10: or neglect as found by. A Court the trump administration
Speaker 10: has already deported many of these, young people but this
Speaker 10: policy memo formally removed categorical, deferred enforcement Which of biden
Speaker 10: admin began doing in twenty. Twenty, two essentially some people
Speaker 10: will be told on receiving sijas that they would be
Speaker 10: safe from deportation and they could receive a. Work permit
Speaker 10: deferred enforcement is the same thing that PEOPLE under dhaka
Speaker 10: have right commonly referred to, as dreamers that has now.
Speaker 1: Been removed PEOPLE.
Speaker 10: With sijs kind of just to BEING the SIGs offers
Speaker 10: a pathway to permanent residency that now these people will
Speaker 10: evidently have to live in fear right up until they
Speaker 10: are able to. Become citizens if they're able to, become, Citizens,
Speaker 10: jess yeah like these are some of the most unfortunate
Speaker 10: people on. The planet like people who get sijs use
Speaker 10: of it has increased for, unaccompanied miners right that or children,
Speaker 10: should say people who have come across in the last
Speaker 10: maybe since twenty, eighteen ish but still it's people who.
Speaker 7: Have often gone to really.
Speaker 10: Terrible things the, justification Cited and i'm quoting from the
Speaker 10: memo here is. That quote the criminality gangs and program.
Speaker 10: Integrity Concerns In Special Immigrant Juvenile petitions report reviewed over
Speaker 10: three hundred THOUSAND aliens sija petitions filed from the beginning
Speaker 10: of fiscal year twenty Thirteen through february twenty. Twenty five
Speaker 10: key findings included eight hundred and fifty three known or
Speaker 10: suspected gang members WHO filed, sija petitions most receiving approval
Speaker 10: of a SIX. Hundred ms thirteen gang MEMBERS filed, sij
Speaker 10: petitions and more than five hundred. Were approved, among them
Speaker 10: at least seventy had been charged with gang related, federal racketeering,
Speaker 10: conspiracy offenses and many other charges violent crimes In The,
Speaker 10: united states including murderer. Sex OFFENSES additional soja petition approvals
Speaker 10: included more than one hundred known or suspected members Of The.
Speaker 10: Eighteenth gang at least three Trend de ragua gang members
Speaker 10: and dozens Of nor tenos. Gang members if you go
Speaker 10: back and look at, those numbers three hundred, THOUSAND petitions
Speaker 10: i see. Seventy, charges yeah. That's absurd that is a
Speaker 10: fraction of a.
Speaker 20: Single percent if they reviewed three, Hundred thousand even if
Speaker 20: this like eight hundred and fifty number, it's correct is,
Speaker 20: completely correct which is not which that's like less than
Speaker 20: one third of. A, percent.
Speaker 7: Yeah exactly it is a.
Speaker 10: Minuscule fraction if every single person who, they suspect and
Speaker 10: given what we've seen, about suspicion that could be as
Speaker 10: much as having, a, Tattoo.
Speaker 6: Right, yeah yeah it's.
Speaker 10: Ludicrous to join one up with the other, and, say
Speaker 10: therefore all of these, young people many of whom have
Speaker 10: gone through horrific things now will have.
Speaker 7: To live in.
Speaker 10: Fear again that policy memo came Out. IN april i
Speaker 10: found IT when i was looking through the policy memos
Speaker 10: ON the, uscis WEBSITE and i haven't seen any other reporting.
Speaker 10: On It maybe i've just, missed it but it's certainly
Speaker 10: something that people should be. AWARE of i want to
Speaker 10: do a scripted Series on sijas people for, understandable reasons
Speaker 10: not all of them want to get up in the media.
Speaker 20: Right, now yeah in terms of all the immigration changes that,
Speaker 20: have happened this collection of stuff is like some of
Speaker 20: the Worst that.
Speaker 7: I've heard you. Talk, about yeah it's.
Speaker 10: Really bad like they STARTED deporting, sijs people and even
Speaker 10: even immigration lawyers who have been, like that This second
Speaker 10: trump administration is going to be. Really bad The second
Speaker 10: trump administration is. Really bad people did not expect them
Speaker 10: to begin going after, these people and they did when they.
Speaker 10: Were detaining another thing they've claimed is that like some
Speaker 10: of them are over, twenty one, over eighteen because they
Speaker 10: can still apply it to twenty.
Speaker 15: One.
Speaker 10: Jurisdictions, Right, again sure that doesn't mean that they haven't
Speaker 10: been through, Terrible things like many many twenty one year
Speaker 10: Olds in america rely on their parents. For things these
Speaker 10: people often don't have their parents or have been some
Speaker 10: cases been abused by or abandoned by, their parents and
Speaker 10: then sending them back to a place where they may be,
Speaker 10: in danger where they may not. Be, Safe right there
Speaker 10: is no moral ethical justification.
Speaker 1: For, this really it's. Really bad it's. Really, horrible yeah pure.
Speaker 10: Undiluted, Violence yeah, and likewise we can very clearly see
Speaker 10: if we look at the list of travel boud countries
Speaker 10: is going to be a bar and people from a
Speaker 10: large number of countries where the majority of the population
Speaker 10: is not white getting citizenship and legal public residence states
Speaker 10: In The united states rights something that has very clearly
Speaker 10: been a motivating factor of policy for a. Long, time,
Speaker 10: so yeah more shit news from me. About immigration talking of,
Speaker 10: shit news we have to pivot. To advertisements we.
Speaker 12: And.
Speaker 2: We're back, oh boy well that's all been. Very depressing
Speaker 2: you know what's Not. Depressing catholicism, oh oh and, that
Speaker 2: too too great taste great together to make us.
Speaker 1: All happy.
Speaker 2: Oh man this week the same work that we're, Recording
Speaker 2: This pope leo the fourteenth issued An Encyclical, magnifica humanitas
Speaker 2: that warned against equating machine intelligence with. Human intelligence, he
Speaker 2: declared we must avoid the misconception of equating this type
Speaker 2: of intelligence with that of. Human beings these systems merely
Speaker 2: imitate certain functions of. Human intelligence this has, BEEN seen
Speaker 2: i think by most critics of artificial intelligence as a pretty.
Speaker 2: Good encyclical it is. Very long it's well over one,
Speaker 2: hundred pages so this is not like a. Quick read
Speaker 2: you should think about this as like going in and reading.
Speaker 2: A book it's a really. Interesting document among, other Things
Speaker 2: the Pope. Quotes Jr or tolkien at, one, point yeah
Speaker 2: which is a nice. Little bit he also makes a
Speaker 2: lot of references to mathematics and specifically like kind of
Speaker 2: comparing The way catholicism thinks about divinity And The holy
Speaker 2: spirit and all that to certain kind of like, geometric
Speaker 2: shapes because apparently he was a. MATH major i did not,
Speaker 2: know this but it comes through in the writing. OF
Speaker 2: this i would say my overall impression, is, like Oh
Speaker 2: the pope has a lot more understanding of like technical.
Speaker 1: STUFF than i thought he was going. To have This
Speaker 1: isn't this is.
Speaker 2: Not like a bad thing from a like a basic
Speaker 2: understanding of how the technology. Works, standpoint obviously a lot
Speaker 2: of this is based Around the pope's beliefs about the
Speaker 2: like what humanity is and the divinity within, human umanity
Speaker 2: which is not something that. Everybody BELIEVES but i also
Speaker 2: have found an awful lot of atheists and just kind
Speaker 2: of like non religious people who have been sharing this
Speaker 2: because while they don't, agree, that like, you know human
Speaker 2: beings are sacred because of the Sacrifice Of jesus christ necessarily,
Speaker 2: or whatever or that we were Made. By god they
Speaker 2: agree with the fact that there's something special about humanity
Speaker 2: that is not being recreated by, these llmms And so
Speaker 2: i've seen a lot of like praise as a result. Of,
Speaker 2: That however i've also SEEN what i thought were pretty.
Speaker 2: Salient critiques and the number one critique here is that
Speaker 2: this encyclical was released at an event that was kind
Speaker 2: of co launched with People, from anthropic And the vatican
Speaker 2: Worked with anthropic for this release and are in general
Speaker 2: kind of partnering maybe the, wrong term but working alongside
Speaker 2: them to try and have a dialogue about the FUTURE
Speaker 2: of ai and what it should and. Shouldn't do, and
Speaker 2: specifically one Thing That pope leo talked a lot about
Speaker 2: was the need to demilitarize or disarm, artificial intelligence as
Speaker 2: in remove it from use in like, defense industries and
Speaker 2: certainly make sure that it's not making the call to actually.
Speaker 20: Kill people and that's Something that anthropic has also took us,
Speaker 20: stand on insomuch as that now THAT the us government
Speaker 20: is trying to remove any partnership it Has.
Speaker 1: With, nthropic, yes yes they at least were openly.
Speaker 2: Against that now that Doesn't mean anthropics A company i
Speaker 2: like or a company that everybody. Should like they still
Speaker 2: played your eyes huge millions, of people basically anyone who's
Speaker 2: ever written. A book there's a lot of, illegal things
Speaker 2: objectively Illegal things, anthropic did and that's why there are
Speaker 2: numerous lawsuits against. Them NOW and i think it is
Speaker 2: in fact a problem that One of anthropics, Co Founders,
Speaker 2: chris ola was invited to speak at this event In,
Speaker 2: the vatican because one of the first things he did
Speaker 2: after Thanking the vatican And The catholic church And the
Speaker 2: pope for having, him there is kind of disagree with
Speaker 2: What the pope had said that these systems merely imitate
Speaker 2: certain functions of. Human Intelligence because ola said that These
Speaker 2: systems i'm not quote from an article In the register
Speaker 2: Here By thomas CLAPBURN quote, ai systems, he said are
Speaker 2: not the cold calculating robots we. Were promised they are made,
Speaker 2: from us from, our words and As The holy, father
Speaker 2: observes they remain an important way is mysterious to those
Speaker 2: of us who.
Speaker 1: Train them this IS what i have an. Issue, with no.
Speaker 2: They're not they're mysterious me in the same sense that
Speaker 2: like if you make a car that had always just
Speaker 2: been a simple. Ice engine if you make that a
Speaker 2: hybrid and you throw like a computer screen and a
Speaker 2: bunch of shit, in it you're gonna have a bunch
Speaker 2: of problems with, your car as like a manufacturer that
Speaker 2: you you didn't expect to have because you've.
Speaker 1: Added, complexity right.
Speaker 20: But we can't predict every single outcome of, machine learning,
Speaker 20: right yeah but but but the way the aropic guy,
Speaker 20: is using, you know basic basic facts about like machine
Speaker 20: learning and, neural networks but framing them in a way to.
Speaker 2: These, are mysterious like the human brain, is mysterious, and, no,
Speaker 2: yes yeah but but it's also, like course you can't
Speaker 2: predict what the output is your.
Speaker 1: Entire processes you're just multiplying matrices against each other over
Speaker 1: and over again and then checking to see if the
Speaker 1: output of the random matricey multiplication you've done is what, You.
Speaker 7: Want, like yeah.
Speaker 2: No shit the dumb person comparison might BE if i
Speaker 2: were to buy an empty HOUSE and i were to
Speaker 2: fill that house with random shit for, thirty years for
Speaker 2: so Long that i've Forgotten what i've put in, the
Speaker 2: house AND then i sent you into the house to
Speaker 2: grab something at random. FROM it i might be totally
Speaker 2: surprised by what you. Bring out that doesn't mean anything
Speaker 2: mysterious or sacred. Has occurred it Just means i've.
Speaker 7: Forgotten, all this.
Speaker 3: You.
Speaker 1: Know. Yeah yeah or it's like it's like if you
Speaker 1: make a machine that just like spits out a, random,
Speaker 1: output yes you don't know what it's going, to, be, like.
Speaker 7: Yes this is this is what you, have.
Speaker 2: Done exactly a random output when it was been trained
Speaker 2: on the corpus of like.
Speaker 7: Human. Knowledge.
Speaker 2: Right yeah and one of the THINGS that i find
Speaker 2: very frustrating Is that olah made the STATEMENT that ai
Speaker 2: systems are made from us and from, our, Words right.
Speaker 1: And he said that in a way as to like and.
Speaker 2: That's good it, means, that like we all are a
Speaker 2: part of this and it's a part, of us and
Speaker 2: so there's humanity. In, it, no, NO no ai isn't
Speaker 2: like made from. Our words they stole our words that
Speaker 2: are consent in order to monetize them.
Speaker 1: For themselves. That's different that's.
Speaker 10: Real, different yeah in the same way that back in
Speaker 10: the DAY when i, begun teaching people would plagiarize by
Speaker 10: copying pasting things. From, books yeah those are also made by.
Speaker 10: People's words it doesn't make, them, sacred yeah makes. Them,
Speaker 10: stolen now all our lists in here three questions for
Speaker 10: discernment and he phrases, is LIKE and i Hope The
Speaker 10: catholic church can like help us figure out how we
Speaker 10: should move forward with. These things these are the big QUESTIONS.
Speaker 10: BEHIND ai i want to quote again for that piece
Speaker 10: In the register because the author, Of, that clappert has
Speaker 10: a funny, Bit here, oh la how can we ensure
Speaker 10: the GAINS of ai are? Shared globally we do not
Speaker 10: have a mechanism. For this we have many what is.
Speaker 10: CALLED taxes i know there is litigation already. On going
Speaker 10: we also Have The french revolution And The russian revolution,
Speaker 10: among others as well as sharing models when nothing.
Speaker 6: Else works, That's, good yeah.
Speaker 1: That's good That's what i've got to say.
Speaker 20: ON this, i, mean yeah obviously this anthropic guy is
Speaker 20: going to frame certain things as marketing for, the company
Speaker 20: right he that that's going to determine the way that
Speaker 20: that that he uses certain words and the way that
Speaker 20: he discusses machine learning and. Neural networks right when he's
Speaker 20: saying that this is like based on the human, brain
Speaker 20: roughly it's, because yeah it's because it's because it's a
Speaker 20: machine learning, neural network so it's that's going to frame
Speaker 20: the way that he's. DOING it i think it makes
Speaker 20: sense For The catholic church to try to enter into
Speaker 20: dialogue with a Company, like, anthropic sure especially if, they can,
Speaker 20: you know unite against teals efforts and even maybe some
Speaker 20: of some of the Efforts Of. Open aye But obviously
Speaker 20: anthropic has their own motivations for, doing this which is to.
Speaker 1: Enrich, themselves, yes yes BUT it's i don't think it's.
Speaker 20: Surprising That The catholic church will will also try to
Speaker 20: enter into dialogue to influence the outcome of. THESE things
Speaker 20: i think, in General the pope statement is.
Speaker 1: IS fine i Think the pope statement.
Speaker 2: IS fine i do think this might be a data
Speaker 2: point in terms of in The future church may need
Speaker 2: to recognize that you can't actually work with.
Speaker 1: These guys perhaps that will be the outcome. We'll, See
Speaker 1: WELL but, I mean I think i think that's part
Speaker 1: of what's happening, here, though right is that the Reason
Speaker 1: the church IS taking antiai positions while working with them
Speaker 1: is that they're like they're they're trying to have it
Speaker 1: both ways in terms of co opting both LIKE the
Speaker 1: antiai movement and also work like work with these companies
Speaker 1: to sort of like build their.
Speaker 2: INFLUENCE space i don't see it, FULLY that i think for,
Speaker 2: the popes because he's been very consistent about being horrified
Speaker 2: by the growth of the arms industry and the IDEA
Speaker 2: of ai weapons. IN war i kind of suspect From the,
Speaker 2: vatican's standpoint when that all Erupted with anthropic pulling out
Speaker 2: and saying they weren't willing to work With the Department
Speaker 2: of defense on the things the deity wanted them, to
Speaker 2: do that that's probably When the vatican made. The CALL
Speaker 2: but i don't. Actually know, You know i'm Not gonna
Speaker 2: i'm not going to say that the more sinister outcome
Speaker 2: is definitely not. What's OCCURRING but i think there's a
Speaker 2: number of ways to kind of look at what the
Speaker 2: decision that was made and why it.
Speaker 7: WAS made, i Mean.
Speaker 20: The catholic arch is one of the most globally influential
Speaker 20: bodies on. The planet they do have like their theological
Speaker 20: reasons FOR opposing ai as well as sort of ethical
Speaker 20: reasons that it's illuminated by the pope in terms of
Speaker 20: like work, of protections in terms of the anti, war
Speaker 20: STUFF and i do believe he has, like actual, you
Speaker 20: know legitimate spiritual beliefs about like what, humanity is and
Speaker 20: it WAS something i appreciate is that he doesn't just
Speaker 20: take THIS like ai skeptic point of view and just
Speaker 20: to deny THAT like ai will, you know significantly transform, our,
Speaker 20: world RIGHT because I think ai is is transforming production
Speaker 20: and in some pretty. Significant Ways that pope's not just
Speaker 20: HOPING that ai will. Go away he's affirming that we
Speaker 20: actually need to do something about this to protect our.
Speaker 20: Own humanity and EVEN though ai is not, human it
Speaker 20: humans do determine how it will, be developed and therefore we.
Speaker 20: Should ACT and i think that makes sense for. His,
Speaker 20: POSITION yeah. I don't i'm not surprised as to the
Speaker 20: fact that he's. DOING it i guess my long term
Speaker 20: DOUBT is i don't think any of these companies have
Speaker 20: the ability on their own to make. Responsible, choices no
Speaker 20: certainly not the future of these.
Speaker 1: Of THESE and i don't think they have the ability
Speaker 1: to contribute to.
Speaker 2: Responsible, DECISIONS sure i think they need to be, Man,
Speaker 2: handled yeah totally by armed agents of. The state OTHERWISE
Speaker 2: armed us are going to have to, do it, you
Speaker 2: know that's that's, the reality and that's, the reality not JUST,
Speaker 2: with ai that's the reality with every.
Speaker 1: Mega. Corporation right if.
Speaker 2: The government does not stop them from destroying life for
Speaker 2: large numbers, of people then large numbers of people are
Speaker 2: going to do crazy things, to them. You know and
Speaker 2: if you want crazy things to stop happening to, for
Speaker 2: EXAMPLE the Ceo OF, open ai maybe he should stop
Speaker 2: saying his technology might.
Speaker 7: Kill.
Speaker 20: Everyone yeah on a, Related note wired has recently obtained
Speaker 20: thousands of documents FROM, THE, dhs fbi and state level
Speaker 20: info sharing. Anti terrorism they're called, fusion centers where information
Speaker 20: is shared BETWEEN, the FEDS, the stay and local local.
Speaker 7: Law enforcement and a.
Speaker 20: Report From The New york intelligence And Counter terrorism bureau
Speaker 20: has warned of widespread upheaval in response to the ADOPTION,
Speaker 20: of ai and has coined a, new term quote anti
Speaker 20: tech violent. Extremism unquote this is this is a this
Speaker 20: is a quote from.
Speaker 1: This.
Speaker 20: Report quote the chaotic atmosphere that may result FROM emergent
Speaker 20: aa technology in the next five years may fuel large
Speaker 20: scale protests that devolve into civil unrest and anti tech violent,
Speaker 20: extremist activity especially in larger bernarias Such As new york.
Speaker 7: City unquote this.
Speaker 20: Is, interesting also According, to Wired The intelligence bureau report
Speaker 20: Referenced the ziziants and worn that quote paranoid VIEWS regarding
Speaker 20: ai may proliferate in the Aftermath of physician's trial thanks
Speaker 20: to their quote attempt, to reason the belief that a
Speaker 20: godlike INCARNATION of ai is imminent and belief that humans
Speaker 20: must best use their time in the present to devote
Speaker 20: themselves to ensuring its compliance with, human morality or face
Speaker 20: existential consequences for failing to.
Speaker 7: Do So.
Speaker 20: Unquote god this is, really interesting the Stuff that roberts
Speaker 20: been talking about for quite. A, while yeah, AND like
Speaker 20: i think this report was actually written Before The sam
Speaker 20: maltman molotov, cocktail attack or at least it was written
Speaker 20: around the, same TIME but i think probably a little.
Speaker 20: Bit before but considering the molotov cocktail attack On sim
Speaker 20: maltman's property and the gunshots fired into the home of
Speaker 20: a pro data center city, council, person like it makes
Speaker 20: sense that law enforcement IS considering antiai violence as an emerging.
Speaker 20: Threat vector but it also makes sense to be concerned
Speaker 20: that non violent opposition may get caught in a federal
Speaker 20: or state. Level, dragnet yeah.
Speaker 1: And that's what fusion center is, to, you right they
Speaker 1: think dragnet a whole bunch, of shit.
Speaker 7: And that's exactly what.
Speaker 20: Centers do and most Of this wired report is talking
Speaker 20: about documents from fusion centers. And like as we have,
Speaker 20: already seen, law enforcements surveillance capacity and scope has been
Speaker 20: empowered and extended By The National Security presidential memorandum, number
Speaker 20: seven and public organizers and protesters are much easier to
Speaker 20: target than the small minority of people that actually end
Speaker 20: up committing. Violent crimes wired reported, that, federal state and
Speaker 20: local agencies are gathering and circulating intelligence about alleged threats to.
Speaker 20: Data centers the intelligence Documents that wired quotes from outline
Speaker 20: a variety of threat actors, and models not simply data.
Speaker 20: Center protests quote, adversarial actors including state, sponsored entities, criminal
Speaker 20: groups and extremists such as homegrown island extremists or environmental
Speaker 20: extremists MAY target us. Data centers these actors could also
Speaker 20: exploit the strategic importance of data centers TO the, us
Speaker 20: economy using them for activities like, cryptocurrency mining or leveraging
Speaker 20: third party entities such as front companies to gain ACCESS
Speaker 20: to us data and, infrastructure unquote so that outlines not
Speaker 20: just like environmental or like the general anti data center
Speaker 20: beliefs held By the. American public like this shows like actual,
Speaker 20: you know like threats to national security by hostile state
Speaker 20: actors or, criminal groups as well as people with their
Speaker 20: own environmental or ethical reasons FOR opposing. Ai, Domestically though
Speaker 20: wired also reported That a fusion Center In northern virginia
Speaker 20: created a Report on tesla takedown protests and in person
Speaker 20: assemblies like demonstrations In An arlington county budget meeting And
Speaker 20: A fairfax County school board meeting where people voiced OPPOSITION.
Speaker 1: To, ai yeah and this is again also like historically
Speaker 1: what these fision centers have been, Used for exchange was,
Speaker 1: TALKING about i mean like all the way back To,
Speaker 1: LIKE god, i MEAN like i probably should have worked
Speaker 1: out in WHAT order i wanted to talk, About These,
Speaker 1: like yeah fusion centers have been used to target everything
Speaker 1: from like anti ur rock war protest stuff in like
Speaker 1: the mid two thousands through, like yeah like fusion centers
Speaker 1: are like one of the big coordinat engagents for like
Speaker 1: all of the repression in. Twenty twenty they've been used
Speaker 1: in Like anti palestine protests and LIKE twenty fourge and the.
Speaker 1: Campus occupations, so, LIKE yeah i like these sorts of
Speaker 1: like intelligence reports are talking about like different, threat factors
Speaker 1: but going after protesters is like what these fision centers
Speaker 1: in a lot of cases are designed.
Speaker 7: To do, so, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: Definitely a thing to be, concerned about given what these
Speaker 1: things are and what. They, do yeah speaking of, cryptocurrency mining,
Speaker 1: oh boy, so, yeah yeah speak speak speaking of using
Speaker 1: large entities for. Crypto bullshit so last week we talked
Speaker 1: a bit about and wash The New Federal reserve board
Speaker 1: chairman's like ties to the tech, right right ties to
Speaker 1: feel ties and recent ties to this whole sort of
Speaker 1: world of like tech venture. Capital money AND today i
Speaker 1: want to talk about as an executive Order from may
Speaker 1: nineteenth From the trump administration that Orders The federal reserve
Speaker 1: to consider allowing crypto companies and OTHER non fdic and
Speaker 1: short entities to. Use, fedwire okay so what? Is fedwire
Speaker 1: on a. Macro level fedwire is the reason The entire american.
Speaker 1: Economy functions it is the payment service that banks IN
Speaker 1: the us used to both send money to each other
Speaker 1: and TO. The fed if you wanted to do. An,
Speaker 1: analogy right you could say that Fedwire is PayPal, for
Speaker 1: banks but like the reality is, Not That like PayPal
Speaker 1: Is like fedwire.
Speaker 7: For. People right fedwire.
Speaker 1: Is maybe the single most important infrastructure piece of The
Speaker 1: entire america. A me i was gonna talk about this a,
Speaker 1: bit later but the surface on, an AVERAGE the fed
Speaker 1: estimates that it moves one point one quadrillion dollars.
Speaker 10: Per year whoa what is a quadrillion fit then in
Speaker 10: a number of, bigness scale that's a million million dollars lot. Per,
Speaker 10: Year right like The entire american financial system moves moves through.
Speaker 1: This service and you can also like move money to
Speaker 1: the government, through this so you can you can do
Speaker 1: exchanges With The federal reserve itself or The Different federal. Reserve,
Speaker 1: banks now in order to get access, to fedwire you
Speaker 1: have to be an, actual, bank right you have to
Speaker 1: be LIKE an fdic. Insured Bank and crypto has not
Speaker 1: had access to. This system LIKE crypto i really don't
Speaker 1: want to call them crypto banks because they're, not banks
Speaker 1: and that's why they have a net access to. The
Speaker 1: system because they're. Not banks crypto is not money and
Speaker 1: it's not none of.
Speaker 7: This stuff.
Speaker 1: THE subjects, i mean IT'S subject i guess to a
Speaker 1: little bit of like, securities regulation but it's not subject
Speaker 1: to ACTUAL like fdic regulation or importantly deposit insurance, because
Speaker 1: again these are. Not, Banks now crypto has been trying
Speaker 1: to get access TO the fed wire system for years
Speaker 1: because in order for crypto companies to sort of like
Speaker 1: interface with the rest of the, banking system they have
Speaker 1: to like basically like get a bank to act as
Speaker 1: a partner for them instead of being able to like
Speaker 1: directly move the stuff around because they can't access. The
Speaker 1: system And so trump has at least given an executive
Speaker 1: order FOR the fed to consider.
Speaker 7: Doing This now trump cannot.
Speaker 1: Actually, force directly like you can't just sign an executive
Speaker 1: order that says you have To let crypto do this
Speaker 1: BECAUSE of. Fed independence BUT the fed had already sort
Speaker 1: of like opened a period of public comment. On this
Speaker 1: and this is SOMETHING that i think wash, is this
Speaker 1: this is. The way it's why it is important that
Speaker 1: this is happening after like the appointment Of Like, kevin
Speaker 1: walsh or like after he'd been, technically speaking before he'd,
Speaker 1: been confirmed but like after or like like before he'd been,
Speaker 1: sworn in but after like they knew he Was gonna
Speaker 1: he's going to get through because he is extremely friendly to.
Speaker 1: These groups this is also a thing that's that's sort
Speaker 1: of important for the crypto industry because one of the
Speaker 1: issues that crypto has is that actually trying to like
Speaker 1: move cryptocurrency around is just. A nightmare that's like one
Speaker 1: of the reasons why, no one no one actually like
Speaker 1: uses it to purchase things because it's it's such. A
Speaker 1: disaster and getting access To the fed's payment system suddenly
Speaker 1: kind of it gives you a sort of like you
Speaker 1: can Use the fed's, playmt patform which, actually works unlike
Speaker 1: theirs which. Do, not now the Other reason i'm bringing,
Speaker 1: this up so it's worth mentioning that even IF the
Speaker 1: fed were to allow them to create accounts With The,
Speaker 1: federal reserve they wouldn't for now have access to a
Speaker 1: lot of the services That The federal, Reserve provides like
Speaker 1: they wouldn't be able to do like they take, advantage
Speaker 1: of like repo injections and like stuff, Like that like
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of the stuff THAT the
Speaker 1: fed uses to stabilize the, economy through like injecting money
Speaker 1: into the banking system and injecting bonds and stuff like
Speaker 1: that into the system they wouldn't have. Access to but
Speaker 1: it's pretty clear that these shripto groups wants that eventually
Speaker 1: because that gives them access to like the actual sort
Speaker 1: of banking capacity of the, federal government which allows them
Speaker 1: access to things like very low interest short term loans,
Speaker 1: and liquidity, et cetera, et cetera. Et cetera AND what
Speaker 1: i want to close on is is that this Is
Speaker 1: what worsh's, thing, is right he wants there to be
Speaker 1: more integration between this sort OF like i call, it,
Speaker 1: fintech right like the financial, tech things but, you know
Speaker 1: between these very fascist right wing. Tech companies they want
Speaker 1: them to be more and more directly integrated into the
Speaker 1: payment services and into the banking capacity OF the. US
Speaker 1: governments i mentioned earlier that fed wire moves again one
Speaker 1: point one quadrillion dollars. A. Year now this this is
Speaker 1: also what's very Dangerous about trump's people being in control
Speaker 1: Of The federal reserve because there is so much infrastructure
Speaker 1: inside Of The federal reserve that if it breaks even a,
Speaker 1: little bit things that we don't think of, at all
Speaker 1: like no one like literally no one thinks about like
Speaker 1: even even if you, do stuff you tend not to
Speaker 1: think about fed wire because it. Just works and this
Speaker 1: is less of a risk now that like doge gropers aren't.
Speaker 1: Running around but one of the Dangers of trump attempting
Speaker 1: to pay control Of The federal reserve is that his
Speaker 1: people will break something like this while doing something like
Speaker 1: attempting to integrate crypto companies. Into it and so that's
Speaker 1: just going to be a continuing risk that we all
Speaker 1: sort of have to deal with because tech companies And
Speaker 1: the trump administration and Now the president Of The federal
Speaker 1: reserve want to fuck with these systems on which everything
Speaker 1: in all of our lives depends on in ways that we.
Speaker 7: Never. See cool, all right.
Speaker 1: Speaking of the things that all of our lives, depend
Speaker 1: on here are the products and services that support. This
Speaker 1: podcast products.
Speaker 22: And services, That's, Right, leslie yeah.
Speaker 7: All right and.
Speaker 2: We're back so they have to unfortunately Talk, about wikipedia
Speaker 2: or at Least The. Wikimedia, FOUNDATION obviously i think everyone
Speaker 2: hears pretty big Fans, of wikipedia which is at this
Speaker 2: point has gone from the thing my teachers used to
Speaker 2: TELL me i couldn't use in projects, to like by any.
Speaker 2: Objective measure one of the most significant projects in the
Speaker 2: history of human knowledge and like storage of things that
Speaker 2: human beings know and. Have learned it's one of the
Speaker 2: last like gasps of the promise of The, old internet
Speaker 2: and it's also the thing that underpins all OF the
Speaker 2: ai chat Bots alongside reddit in one way, or another
Speaker 2: and the answers that they give People like wikipedia is
Speaker 2: incredibly IMPORTANT, for ai which, is why like With The
Speaker 2: wikimedia foundation has made deals like WITH the ai industry
Speaker 2: in order to get money for letting them Scrape, like
Speaker 2: wikipedia which is kind of part of Why The wikimedia
Speaker 2: foundation is currently doing really fucking. Well monetarily they've got
Speaker 2: a little under three hundred million dollars, in reserves which
Speaker 2: is about a year and a half worth of Money
Speaker 2: for so, first, off.
Speaker 20: Wait so you're saying those little banners that fill half
Speaker 20: of the screen EVERY time I use wikipedia, ARE like i.
Speaker 2: Don't want to actually, RIGHT now i do want to
Speaker 2: discourage people from Donating.
Speaker 1: To WIKIPEDIA historically i, have not but yes.
Speaker 2: You should, first, off no if you've been feeling bad about,
Speaker 2: not donating they don't currently. Need it they're okay, right
Speaker 2: now and they shouldn't get more of your money until
Speaker 2: they stop doing the Shit than i'm about to tell,
Speaker 2: you about because over the course of ten Days, in
Speaker 2: May The wikimedia foundation has engaged and what you could
Speaker 2: call major, union busting firing employees who are trying to
Speaker 2: organize their fellows and trying to like represent those values
Speaker 2: Within The. Wikimedia foundation and my source for main source
Speaker 2: for this is a pretty good Article That jake orlowitz
Speaker 2: put Out. On, medium recently big text anti labor playbook
Speaker 2: has Come, for wikipedia and it starts with the Firing
Speaker 2: in May Of. Brooke vibber she was the very first
Speaker 2: full time employee Of The wikimedia foundation and ITS, first
Speaker 2: cto the chief, technical officer and for more than, twenty
Speaker 2: years she's like one of the main engineers that Has
Speaker 2: made wikipedia, work right and she's also a, union organizer
Speaker 2: so she's a very. Important person she's the lead developer for,
Speaker 2: media wiki which is the platform That runs wikipedia and
Speaker 2: had been in since two thousand, and three and it
Speaker 2: is just a very big person both in terms Of
Speaker 2: how wikipedia works and in terms of like the way
Speaker 2: in which like they're unionizing efforts. Have gone she was
Speaker 2: laid off without any like real, costs given and then a,
Speaker 2: week Later on may, twenty First the foundation Disbanded The Community,
Speaker 2: tech team which consisted of five engineers and. A Manager
Speaker 2: The Community tech team had the job of Listening to,
Speaker 2: wikipedia editors which are number one The reason wikipedia, has
Speaker 2: content and number. Two, Volunteers right so these are regular
Speaker 2: employees whose job has been to Hear what wikipedia editors
Speaker 2: want and then help make sure that the salary employees
Speaker 2: on the team fulfill those desires and as much as that.
Speaker 22: Is.
Speaker 2: Possible right and so when you fire, these people you,
Speaker 2: are saying we don't really give a shit about the.
Speaker 2: Volunteer community and it's also noted in This and jake's
Speaker 2: article that most of those engineers were. Union, organizers now
Speaker 2: there is currently a solidarity Petition for. Wikipedia editor so
Speaker 2: if you are an Editor, OF wikipedia i think it
Speaker 2: would be great if you signed that. Solidarity petition this
Speaker 2: is the first time that editors have had to do
Speaker 2: an organized solidarity action with paid. Foundation staff, and yeah
Speaker 2: it's a. Whole thing the salaried staff there are not
Speaker 2: on one side.
Speaker 1: About this this is.
Speaker 2: Extremely controversial it has a lot to do with the
Speaker 2: fact that a number of the, old guard including you
Speaker 2: know the folks who are a number of like some
Speaker 2: of the oldest People at wikipedia have a kind of
Speaker 2: libertarian bit, to them you. Might say And in january
Speaker 2: twentieth of twenty, Twenty Six bernadette behan was RECRUITED as
Speaker 2: ceo of. The foundation and her prior career included WORK
Speaker 2: At jp Morgan And, lehman brothers as well as a
Speaker 2: spokesperson role FOR.
Speaker 1: The Nsc National. Security council she was On The. Obama
Speaker 1: foundation she WAS The us Ambassador.
Speaker 7: Of chile.
Speaker 2: Oh great this is someone who comes from a background
Speaker 2: in which fucking with union attempts are very like normal.
Speaker 2: And accepted the union's demands are. Not extreme they would
Speaker 2: not have any meaningful impact whatsoever on the pile of
Speaker 2: Cash that. Wikipedia has there's no excuse For The wikipedia foundation.
Speaker 2: Doing this you should be pissed at them and not
Speaker 2: give them more money until they make. Things, right anyway that's.
Speaker 2: My opinion i'm, done nice.
Speaker 10: All right so we need to update once again the
Speaker 10: situation With The united states War. In IRAN the usa
Speaker 10: this week Again bombed iran and violation, of ceasefire calling
Speaker 10: it a self defense strike that means still a VIOLATION.
Speaker 10: Of cesfa the negotiations, are ongoing both sides who remain.
Speaker 10: Longwaar pot there have been various leaks and reports of
Speaker 10: where where negotiations. Were at one Suggested that iran would
Speaker 10: exchange freeing up its assets and other sanctions relief for
Speaker 10: removing highly a. Rich Geranium IRANIAN state tv leaked details
Speaker 10: of a suppose memorandum, of understanding which would be like
Speaker 10: the meurmorandum that they would sign in order to, say,
Speaker 10: like hey let's get back at. The table, until then
Speaker 10: these are our rules, kind of this is the rules
Speaker 10: we're operating underwhere WE negotiate themu said the blockade would
Speaker 10: end in the straight would, be reopened BUT the usa has.
Speaker 1: Denied THAT MoU.
Speaker 10: I don't want to go into the blow by the
Speaker 10: blow of like leak to denied things because it's just
Speaker 10: a waste.
Speaker 7: Of time none of.
Speaker 1: That's real it's all stock. Market manipulation like it's all.
Speaker 7: That's sorry that's literally my. Next.
Speaker 10: Sentence, yeah yeah it doesn't stop, people killing it doesn't stop.
Speaker 10: People dying it does change the, oil price and it
Speaker 10: does change the. Stock MARKET and i think if we
Speaker 10: report on this, too credibly we miss the fact that
Speaker 10: that that like that is the, real impact and that
Speaker 10: is how we should frame this in our not do
Speaker 10: the baraquavied thing of rushing up eight bullet points of
Speaker 10: something that someone told you would.
Speaker 7: Never, consider, Why.
Speaker 20: Well james you will never have a career at actious with.
Speaker 7: That, ATTITUDE yes i.
Speaker 10: Think that that bridge has, Been, burned garrison but my
Speaker 10: path in life has been lit by the bridges. Side
Speaker 10: burns ONE thing i do want to note Is that
Speaker 10: trump has attempted to appears to want to tie a
Speaker 10: piece seal to having other countries in the region Signed The.
Speaker 10: Abraham Accords abraham accords you're not familiar twenty twenty agreement
Speaker 10: in WHICH, The, uae Bahrain, Later sudana morocco normalized Relations. With,
Speaker 10: israel interesting that is unlikely.
Speaker 1: To happen.
Speaker 7: You Killed. The eyatlin now you think they're going to
Speaker 7: Sign The? Abraham, record like what are we? Doing?
Speaker 10: HERE yeah i mean it's just going through a wish list.
Speaker 10: OF shit i guess that he or people close to.
Speaker 6: Him.
Speaker 10: Wan, Yeah meanwhile iran is continuing To Attack Southern curtis.
Speaker 10: DAN right i think this offer is a very clear
Speaker 10: vision Of what kurdish group could expect if they decide
Speaker 10: to alli WITH the us and serve as a, ground
Speaker 10: force and of course there are very many reasonable reasons
Speaker 10: that they would want to, do that right to include
Speaker 10: liberating themselves from an. Oppressive regime But The, united states
Speaker 10: as it has done every, other time would probably abandon
Speaker 10: them and they would be subject. To this they are
Speaker 10: already subject to this just because of rumors that they
Speaker 10: were associating With The. United states, this week one strike
Speaker 10: injured Nine, pak peshmerger several of them very. Critically injured talking,
Speaker 10: of strikes let's Pivot, to Nigeria where africom is claiming
Speaker 10: its strikes have killed one hundred and seventy five OR more.
Speaker 10: ISIS members i KNOW that i am like the lonely voice.
Speaker 10: On this THE second i and THE second S in
Speaker 10: isis Stand for iraq And al Sham or Iraq.
Speaker 1: And, syria, yep, yeah, yes, yes yes it's.
Speaker 10: CONSTANTLY Frustrated isis, corussian province that's not what. It Means
Speaker 10: Isis west africa not what.
Speaker 2: It means so It's the islamic state Of irakanow Sham.
Speaker 7: In africa, like, yeah incredible it's now made.
Speaker 10: Into, you like but it.
Speaker 2: Would be like if there was Like a christian fundamentalist
Speaker 2: Like The Georgia baptist school, of.
Speaker 12: Like yeah.
Speaker 1: Like The united States, of America The united States, Of, America, japan.
Speaker 7: Yeah, come on not what the.
Speaker 1: Word, MEANS yeah i.
Speaker 20: Mean yeah in The new, CHARACTERISM doc i think they
Speaker 20: almost exclusively referred to it AS Isis.
Speaker 10: K yeah So that's, corussan, province right which again Not
Speaker 10: in iraq Or else sham in what we Would call.
Speaker 10: Afghanistan today, it's fine. It's, fine yeah this is where we're.
Speaker 10: Out with the fucking acronym is not, An acronym it's just.
Speaker 10: A word i, GUESS now i. Remain, angry meanwhile Fighting
Speaker 10: Between boko HARAM and iswap Is what i'm going to.
Speaker 10: Be using And like chad continues to threaten even worse
Speaker 10: famine in, the region And hex seth is claiming that
Speaker 10: these strikes were part of a campaign To. Defend CHRISTIANS and.
Speaker 23: I just want to know one more thing to give
Speaker 23: you a sense of how committed this. President is maybe
Speaker 23: a year ago he heard the Call Of nigerian christians
Speaker 23: who were being targeted and KILLED by Isis, in nigeria and, He,
Speaker 23: SAID pete i Want The war department to focus on
Speaker 23: ensuring that we do everything we can to Protect.
Speaker 1: Those christians partnerships like.
Speaker 23: That can take time behind, the scenes but he never wavered,
Speaker 23: on it and we got the assets there and over the,
Speaker 23: last month and there hasn't been much coverage, of this
Speaker 23: WE killed isis number Two, in nigeria who's most responsible
Speaker 23: For killing christians and trying to TARGET the, us homeland
Speaker 23: and have since because of the intel we gathered killed
Speaker 23: HUNDREDS of isis members who were targeting And killing Christians,
Speaker 23: in nigeria creating a whole new.
Speaker 7: Opportunity there so there's a lot of.
Speaker 23: Things we do that the media pays, attention to and
Speaker 23: a lot of things That the president Empowers the department
Speaker 23: to do on behalf Of the american people that he
Speaker 23: deserves great.
Speaker 7: Credit for so here we are paying.
Speaker 1: IT time.
Speaker 10: Esp asked you will notice That the african claim of
Speaker 10: one hundred and seventy five is. Not, Hundreds however hexth
Speaker 10: in that statement. Claimed hundreds maybe we are, missing something
Speaker 10: or maybe he's referring To the december twenty twenty five
Speaker 10: strikes and including all of those and rolling them. Up
Speaker 10: together it's of course worth pointing Out that nigerian government
Speaker 10: has pushed back on this narrative that these strikes are To.
Speaker 10: Defend christians There are christian Bishops in nigeria who have
Speaker 10: pushed back on this, narrative because as With many islamist,
Speaker 10: terror groups the majority of people these people have killed Are. Not,
Speaker 10: Christians right many of Them, are muslims many of them
Speaker 10: and people of various. Other Faiths look boko. Haram right
Speaker 10: the name roughly translates To like western style education. Is forbidden, it's,
Speaker 10: Haram right like they're going after people who are in
Speaker 10: that community who have Sought out. Western. Education like there, are,
Speaker 10: many many MANY instances i could say of these People killing.
Speaker 10: Muslim people hegcess wants to make this, a crusade and
Speaker 10: that's just not how things are on. The ground it's
Speaker 10: a very simplistic understanding of a much more. Complicated reality,
Speaker 10: but yeah that IS what i Have on nigeria. This
Speaker 10: week he is right THAT the us Media covers africa
Speaker 10: less much lesson is should but trying to do our.
Speaker 20: Best here we have one, more story big story before,
Speaker 20: We close but first we should Mention the republican Primary
Speaker 20: in Texas. On tuesday After gaining trump's endorsement, Last Week
Speaker 20: Texas Attorney General ken paxton won the runoff election In
Speaker 20: The republican senate. Primary race paxton won by almost four hundred,
Speaker 20: thousand votes beating the fourth Term Incumbent Republican Senator john
Speaker 20: cornin at sixty four percent to thirty six percent of.
Speaker 20: The vote this is the second week in a Row
Speaker 20: where trump has successfully intervened to steer a congressional primary
Speaker 20: win away from incumbents and toward staunch. Mega loyalists paxton
Speaker 20: will now go Up Against tall rico in the general Election.
Speaker 7: This november should We mention paxton Calling ta? Rico?
Speaker 2: Transgender, YEAH yeah i mean it's Not, just Paxton It's.
Speaker 1: Miller miller.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah there seems to be A whole gop move
Speaker 2: to brand him as trans potentially as part of THEIR
Speaker 2: which i kind of see is some degree, of DESPERATION
Speaker 2: although i can't Really imagine paxton losing, this election so
Speaker 2: maybe it's just that they're completely out of other Ideas.
Speaker 20: And paxson does seem to have more Aliabilities. Than cornyn,
Speaker 20: was sure But He's, he's paxton and This.
Speaker 1: Is texas you.
Speaker 2: Have to take this guy has been charged with crimes
Speaker 2: AND the gop tried to get rid Of him.
Speaker 1: Texas refuses.
Speaker 20: ABSOLUTELY not, I mean i never am putting my Faith
Speaker 20: in texas as as we. All, know yeah but IF
Speaker 20: if i were to set up, A pairing. Tallarico v
Speaker 20: paxton pairing is THE one i, would pick as Opposed to.
Speaker 20: Tallarico V the cornyn or, You know crockett. V. V, Paxton.
Speaker 2: Sure i'm not gonna say there's no Way that. Tallerica
Speaker 2: wins it would be an Astonishing leg it would be a. Really,
Speaker 2: Yeah look i'll come on here AND admit i, was
Speaker 2: Wrong and i'll Be, TH yeah i just been too
Speaker 2: long Living.
Speaker 1: In texas see this as like the person who's been the, Most,
Speaker 1: consistent like assuming there's an election that even sort of,
Speaker 1: functions normally this is gonna be like a two thousand
Speaker 1: and eight.
Speaker 7: Style wave they're not like they're not Gonna.
Speaker 1: Win texas And until i'm eve, Been wrong i've been
Speaker 1: saying this the Entire time i've been doing, the Show
Speaker 1: and i've been right every.
Speaker 7: Single time, so like prove, Me.
Speaker 2: Wrong texas, you KNOW when i see a Flip for,
Speaker 2: Texas coming i'll call.
Speaker 1: It OUT but i don't.
Speaker 2: Right, Now, nope, Yeah yeah i'm not saying it'll never
Speaker 2: happen because ghipographically, probably well at some point, like less
Speaker 2: they really succeeded their, genocide dreams but that ain't happening
Speaker 2: now on.
Speaker 1: This, cycle.
Speaker 20: Finally let's talk about another one of these, redistricting cases
Speaker 20: and one related To The supreme court ruling On The Voting.
Speaker 20: Rights Act, on tuesday a federal court Blocked in alabama
Speaker 20: congressional house map Drawn by republicans in twenty. TWENTY three
Speaker 20: a three judge panel found that the drawn map was
Speaker 20: intentionally discriminatory based. On race just two, weeks Ago The
Speaker 20: supreme court cleared the way for this same map to
Speaker 20: be used in the twenty twenty six. Midterm Elections alabama
Speaker 20: republicans have since labeled the district court panel activist. To
Speaker 20: judges it's worth taking a look at who these. JUDGES
Speaker 20: are i think The eleventh circuit judge was first appointed
Speaker 20: to a district court By One. Ronald reagan the other
Speaker 20: two district judges were Appointed, by trump and this exact
Speaker 20: same three judge panel had already found this exact same
Speaker 20: map to be intentionally racially discriminatory. Years ago this new
Speaker 20: district court order also rejects the state's claims that the
Speaker 20: twenty twenty three map was just drawn, with partisan not.
Speaker 20: Racial intent write, in quote the purpose of the twenty
Speaker 20: twenty three plan was to distribute black voters across districts
Speaker 20: to dilute, their votes at least in part because they, are.
Speaker 20: Black unquote this latest ruling is part of a specific
Speaker 20: redistricting battle that has stretched on for, five Years with
Speaker 20: republican maps being repeatedly, struck, down, appealed redrawn and struck.
Speaker 20: Down Again now i've seen some confusion on the exact
Speaker 20: series of, events here like What The supreme court has
Speaker 20: ruled on which maps are. Being USED so i want
Speaker 20: to just briefly go over the sequence EVENTS as i.
Speaker 20: Understand it in twenty, twenty one a district court ruled
Speaker 20: a new map drawn after the twenty twenty census Likely
Speaker 20: violated section two Of The Voting. Rights Act The supreme
Speaker 20: court upheld this decision in twenty, twenty three barring the
Speaker 20: use of this twenty twenty. One map After The supreme,
Speaker 20: court Decision the alabama legislature adopted a new map in twenty,
Speaker 20: twenty three but a federal court again found that this
Speaker 20: newer twenty twenty three map also Likely violated, section two
Speaker 20: And The supreme court let a ban on the use
Speaker 20: of this map go through by declining to block, the
Speaker 20: order but they did not rule on the, map itself
Speaker 20: so the court appointed a special master to draw A
Speaker 20: New alabama house map to use. Going forward in twenty,
Speaker 20: twenty five following, a Trial The district court officially Ruled
Speaker 20: that alabama's twenty twenty three congressional map did in Fact
Speaker 20: violate section two Of The Voting, rights act finding the
Speaker 20: map was quote an intentional effort to Dilute black alabama's
Speaker 20: voting strength and evade the unambiguous requirements of court orders
Speaker 20: standing in.
Speaker 7: The, way.
Speaker 20: Importantly The supreme court had yet to rule on the
Speaker 20: actual twenty twenty three. Map itself After The district court's
Speaker 20: ruling in twenty, Twenty five alabama did appeal To The,
Speaker 20: supreme court but they delayed consideration until After the. Louisiana
Speaker 20: case as, we know that ruling effectively nullified Much of
Speaker 20: section two Of The Voting, rights act establishing that intent
Speaker 20: of racial discrimination must, be shown not just discrimination as
Speaker 20: an effect in the drawing of. Voting districts but after,
Speaker 20: That ruling alabama Asked The supreme court again for a
Speaker 20: quick appeals decision before the state's scheduled primary and to
Speaker 20: put the lower court's order barring the use of the
Speaker 20: twenty twenty three map on hold considering their recent ruling
Speaker 20: In the.
Speaker 6: Louisiana case And.
Speaker 20: On, may Eleventh The supreme Court granted alabama's emergency shadow,
Speaker 20: docket appeal vacated the order blocking the use of the
Speaker 20: twenty twenty three, district map and sent the case back
Speaker 20: to the lower court for further review in light Of the.
Speaker 20: Louisiana ruling so that's, A lot but remember that the
Speaker 20: district court already ruled that the twenty twenty three map
Speaker 20: intentionally discriminated based, on race the veried requirement set By
Speaker 20: The Supreme court's. Louisiana ruling so when the district court
Speaker 20: reconsidered the case this, past week they found That the
Speaker 20: louisiana decision only strengthened their original ruling That THE alabama
Speaker 20: gop map was intentionally discriminatory and deluded. Black voters this
Speaker 20: is pretty Much what sort wrote in her dissent when
Speaker 20: she argued that there was quote unquote no reason to
Speaker 20: send the case back to the district court because that
Speaker 20: court had already Concluded that alabama quote violated the Fourteenth
Speaker 20: the medment by intentionally diluting the votes of black Voters.
Speaker 20: In alabama that constitutional finding of intentional discrimination is independent
Speaker 20: of and unaffected by an any of the legal issues
Speaker 20: discussed In the louisiana. Case unquote so that's essentially. What
Speaker 20: happened that's essentially What The district. Court found the three
Speaker 20: judge panel also rebuffed opposition to the court ordered Map
Speaker 20: in alabama on the basis that it bears similarity to
Speaker 20: the map at the center Of the, louisiana case writing
Speaker 20: that it's their understanding Of The supreme court's recent ruling
Speaker 20: that race as a districting criterion cannot be used when,
Speaker 20: drawing maps but that, quote unquote relevant racial data may
Speaker 20: be considered for a, lawful purpose like checking that the
Speaker 20: drawn maps Comply With Voting rights. Act precedent it's not
Speaker 20: that racial data is used in the drawing, of maps
Speaker 20: but after the maps, are drawn they can be checked
Speaker 20: against racial data to make sure they Comply With Voting rights.
Speaker 20: Act Law The district court Wrote that louisiana's black population
Speaker 20: is not as concentrated As, in alabama requiring a black
Speaker 20: majority district to s through multiple metropolitan areas to scoop up,
Speaker 20: black voters Whereas in alabama it's quote unquote relatively easy
Speaker 20: to draw a reasonably configured majority.
Speaker 7: Black.
Speaker 20: District quote we are unsurprised that race blind relief is
Speaker 20: available here but was. Unavailable, there here it has been
Speaker 20: consistently obvious to us from our visual assessment of the
Speaker 20: geographic Dispersion of alabama's black population and statistics about black
Speaker 20: population centers in, the state that black Voters in alabama
Speaker 20: are relatively geographically. Compact unquote, so essentially it's actually pretty
Speaker 20: difficult to draw a map that separates out the black
Speaker 20: population to be a minority.
Speaker 7: Force in all.
Speaker 20: Voting districts as for, demonstrating intent the district court found
Speaker 20: That the alabama legislature only enacted the discriminatory map after
Speaker 20: knowing it would dilute the impact of, black voters and
Speaker 20: by having prior knowledge of the district print, racial impact
Speaker 20: including from federal, court findings and then passing the, map
Speaker 20: anyway that itself. Shows, intent furthermore the judges wrote that
Speaker 20: the cases quote enormous record contains no evidence of a
Speaker 20: partisan motive unquote in the drawing of the twenty twenty.
Speaker 20: Three map i'll quote again from the. Recent order quote
Speaker 20: in the, simplest terms the sequence and substance of extraordinary
Speaker 20: legislative events against the backdrop of the, legislature's knowledge compels
Speaker 20: us to conclude that the legislature doubled down on racially
Speaker 20: discriminatory vote dilution after we And The supreme court found
Speaker 20: that it was racially discriminatory. Vote dilution the same evidence
Speaker 20: leaves us no room to conclude that when the legislature did,
Speaker 20: all this it had party politics. In mind the only
Speaker 20: available intent evidence tells us that consideration of race were
Speaker 20: the key. Reason unquote So the Court ordered alabama to
Speaker 20: use the alternative court ordered map already used in the
Speaker 20: twenty twenty four election for the Rest of alabama's twenty
Speaker 20: twenty six, congressional elections after which the legislature can then
Speaker 20: create a new congressional. District plan and, of Course the
Speaker 20: State of alabama has already appealed this To The, supreme
Speaker 20: court and we will wait and see if they decide
Speaker 20: to hear.
Speaker 10: This, case yeah this will continue to be a thing
Speaker 10: we're going to have to, report on and we, should
Speaker 10: say for some. Time, rightly yes this is going to
Speaker 10: result in. Massive, changes yeah we will continue to.
Speaker 20: COVER them i guess it is interesting that this is
Speaker 20: the First time i've seen a court really like Interpret
Speaker 20: the louisiana ruling for like another case to a like
Speaker 20: this is this is like an over seventy page. Like,
Speaker 20: ruling yeah and they discuss like Where the louisiana case
Speaker 20: does apply and where, it doesn't and what it means
Speaker 20: to quote unquote consider race in the evaluation of. These
Speaker 20: districts and it would, be interesting, you know If The
Speaker 20: supreme court has had to, hear this if they're going
Speaker 20: to a this court's interpretation of, their ruling or if
Speaker 20: they're going, to, say no you got it wrong and
Speaker 20: strike down. Their interpretation but, you know, right now they
Speaker 20: did really outline like what it means to use race
Speaker 20: in reference to, these districts and how it cannot be
Speaker 20: used in the drawing of, the, district right but that
Speaker 20: it can be considered to make sure that it complies.
Speaker 1: With the voting.
Speaker 20: Right sack and that does not mean that it was
Speaker 20: used as a instrument in the actual drawing of.
Speaker 7: The.
Speaker 20: District YEAH and i think that that specificity is an
Speaker 20: interesting part of the.
Speaker 1: New.
Speaker 10: RULING definitely i think like, it's if like Any Other supreme, court,
Speaker 10: decision right things tend to sort of bounce around before they're.
Speaker 7: Entirely.
Speaker 20: Clarified YEAH like, i said this is like a a
Speaker 20: five year, long case all stemming from the twenty. Twenty,
Speaker 20: census yeah and the maps That the republicans have tried
Speaker 20: to tried to draw, after that, which which as, Multiple
Speaker 20: Courts supreme court And The district court have, already INCLUDED
Speaker 20: the gop tried to intentionally dilute the votes Of black,
Speaker 20: alabama's right and because of the way that the black
Speaker 20: population is Concentrated, in alabama there needs to be an
Speaker 20: intentional effort to, do, That right whereas In this, louisiana
Speaker 20: case the drawing of districts had, you know had to
Speaker 20: like looked more gerrymandered to create these black, majority districts
Speaker 20: Whereas in alabama's case that's not. Really necessary and, in
Speaker 20: fact a lot of the maps that were referenced in
Speaker 20: testimony were like. Algorithmically, generated huh. That's interesting it wasn't
Speaker 20: like then you get the crayons out and like through
Speaker 20: all Lines Like calbridge jerry did back in. The, day, no,
Speaker 20: GREAT great i. Love that i'm sure we can expect
Speaker 20: much more wonderful algorithmically. Generated election, well, Yeah content what
Speaker 20: a time to.
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