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Speaker 1: Colson Media.

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Speaker 2: Hey everybody, Robert Evans here and I wanted to let

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Speaker 2: you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode

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Speaker 2: of the week that just happened is here in one

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Speaker 2: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

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Speaker 2: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

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Speaker 2: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

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Speaker 2: there's going to be nothing new here for you, but

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Speaker 2: you can make your own decisions.

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Speaker 3: Hello, and welcome to it could happen here. My name

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Speaker 3: is Dona el kurd I, am a researcher and analyst

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Speaker 3: of Arab and Palestinian politics. I'm recording this on May nineteenth,

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty six, and this past weekend, May fifteenth was

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Speaker 3: Nekba Day. Nakba is the Arabic word for catastrophe, and

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Speaker 3: Nekba Day commemorates when close to a million Palestinians were

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Speaker 3: expelled in nineteen forty eight with the founding of the

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Speaker 3: Israeli state, so the Palestinian Catastrophe. Hundreds of villages and

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Speaker 3: towns were destroyed, and many Palestinians were made refugees in

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Speaker 3: camps around the new state. In Gaza, West Bank, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon,

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Speaker 3: and farther afield. Within Israel, Palestinians who somehow managed to

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Speaker 3: remain were put under a military rule. As the past

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Speaker 3: fewers have demonstrated, and as many Palestinians will tell you, this,

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Speaker 3: Nekba never ended. Usually I use this podcast to discuss

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Speaker 3: current events or to interview someone who is an expert

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Speaker 3: on a dynamic I'm interested in and I think is

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Speaker 3: useful for people to hear. But today I'm going to

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Speaker 3: be doing something a little different and outside my comfort zone.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to share my personal family history and Arnakba story.

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Speaker 3: I'm a Palestinian from Jerusalem. Both sides, my mom and

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Speaker 3: my dad are from Jerusalem, and I was born there.

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Speaker 3: Usually when people ask me where I'm from and I

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Speaker 3: say that, they just assume East Jerusalem because that's where

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Speaker 3: Palestinians have been sequestered today. They were driven out of

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Speaker 3: West Jerusalem nineteen forty eight, but actually some of my

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Speaker 3: family were from the western side of the city. My

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Speaker 3: paternal grandmother and her family lost their home in West

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Speaker 3: Jerusalem in nineteen forty eight. My grandmother ended up spending

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Speaker 3: three years in akoby Jab at refugee camp outside of

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Speaker 3: Jericho because my great grandfather had been wounded trying to

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Speaker 3: defend the city and they were waiting to see if

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Speaker 3: they could return. My grandmother has told me details about

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Speaker 3: this time. She talked about the makeshift school in the

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Speaker 3: camp that only went up to the eighth grade, So

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Speaker 3: my grandmother repeated the year a couple of times and

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Speaker 3: then eventually dropped out of school because she couldn't continue

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Speaker 3: past the eighth grade. Now, the rest of her siblings,

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Speaker 3: especially upon their return to Jerusalem, were all fully educated

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Speaker 3: as adults. Many of them held advanced degrees. My grandmother

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Speaker 3: was the only one, as the eldest, who had paid

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Speaker 3: the price of displacement in this way. She was trained

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Speaker 3: as a seamstress later on, but always lamented that she

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Speaker 3: had to leave school early. She also told me about

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Speaker 3: her how in Bah, which is in West Jerusalem neighborhood

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Speaker 3: in West Jerusalem before it was taken during the Nekba.

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Speaker 3: This was a newer neighborhood with nice views of the city,

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Speaker 3: where middle class Palsainian families were expanding their homes as

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Speaker 3: their families expanded. My grandmother's family had only moved into

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Speaker 3: this house two months prior to the Nekba, and she

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Speaker 3: used to tell me how the house had been newly

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Speaker 3: painted and it was made of beautiful stones. Before she

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Speaker 3: passed away, she would often cry over this house as

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Speaker 3: if it had just been taken. That house, by the way,

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Speaker 3: still stands in West Jerusalem. The last time I visited Palestine,

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Speaker 3: and my grandmother's younger siblings showed me pictures of themselves

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Speaker 3: posing in front of their house, now occupied by Israelis.

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Speaker 4: Now.

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Speaker 3: My grandmother's story is very typical, but also very lucky

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Speaker 3: because her and her family they did become refugees, yes,

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Speaker 3: but they found their way back to the city. Most

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Speaker 3: Palestinians were never able to return back to their hometowns.

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Speaker 3: They were lucky in that sense that they had property

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Speaker 3: and family in other parts of the city on the

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Speaker 3: eastern side, and they were able to continue. We were

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Speaker 3: able to continue. That's how I was born in Jerusalem

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Speaker 3: myself because of that. Look. Now, on my maternal side,

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Speaker 3: I don't know as much about them and their neck

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Speaker 3: of a story. I left Palestine when I was a child.

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Speaker 3: I don't have a close relationship with the mother's side

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Speaker 3: of the family, and they harbor a lot of secrets.

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Speaker 3: I never knew much about their histories and their dramas.

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Speaker 3: My maternal grandmother is divorced and the family had fractured

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Speaker 3: in particular ways, so there was a lot of touchiness.

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Speaker 3: Many parts of the family were estranged from each other.

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Speaker 3: One thing I did eventually find out when I was

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Speaker 3: a teenager was that my mother's grandmother, so my great grandmother,

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Speaker 3: was actually Israeli. This was my mother's paternal grandmother, her dad,

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Speaker 3: that she no longer had a relationship with because of

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Speaker 3: her parents' divorce, and I didn't have much information beyond

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Speaker 3: that I knew her name Rachel, but nobody really wanted

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Speaker 3: to talk about this Israeli great grandmother. It was also

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Speaker 3: an uncomfortable finding for me at the time because I'm

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Speaker 3: a past Indian from Jerusalem. The only Israelis I had

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Speaker 3: ever engaged with at that point were soldiers, so I

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Speaker 3: didn't press the subject. It was just another family secret

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Speaker 3: we didn't talk about. When I got older, I got

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Speaker 3: more curious about this and I asked for more information,

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Speaker 3: and I asked my dad to confirm whether this was true,

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Speaker 3: that my mother did in fact had an Israeli grandmother,

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Speaker 3: Like this wasn't just a rumor. And he said he

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Speaker 3: had met her himself. In fact, he had met her

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Speaker 3: while I was a toddler, apparently, and I had met her,

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Speaker 3: though of course I had no recollection. My dad says

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Speaker 3: that during her visit to my mother's family, so this

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Speaker 3: would be Rachel's grandchildren and then her daughter in law,

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Speaker 3: there had been some argument and they had harangued her

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Speaker 3: over the actions of her state and her state's military,

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Speaker 3: and according to my dad, she replied that it had

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Speaker 3: nothing to do with her because she came during the

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Speaker 3: British Mandate era, she was classified as a past Indian Jew.

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Speaker 3: And he told me as much of the story as

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Speaker 3: he had been told. Rachel was a Polish Jewish woman.

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Speaker 3: She came to Palestine. She married my great grandfather, who,

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Speaker 3: by my father's description, was kind of a wealthy Palestinian

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Speaker 3: playboy type.

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Speaker 5: They had two.

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Speaker 3: Children, and in nineteen forty eight, when Israel was founded

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Speaker 3: and Palestinians were ethnically cleansed, my great grandmother and great

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Speaker 3: grandfather split up. What my dad understood to have happened

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Speaker 3: was Rachel left, her children joined her new countrymen.

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Speaker 6: And that was that.

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Speaker 3: So, as I said, Jerusalem was split up. The western

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Speaker 3: side was cleared of its Palestinians. There was an armistice

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Speaker 3: line where actually the newfound Israeli state housed recent Arab

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Speaker 3: Jewish migrants sort of as cannon fodder. One of those

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Speaker 3: neighborhoods where Arab Jews were replaced later birth the Israeli

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Speaker 3: Black Panthers. And then the western side was under Israeli

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Speaker 3: rule and Palstinians on the eastern side of the city

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Speaker 3: fell under Jordanian rule. So the story goes that my

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Speaker 3: great grandmother their left and my great grandfather put his

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Speaker 3: children in an orphanage. My dad says he heard they

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Speaker 3: were often mistreated, possibly because their.

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Speaker 5: Mother was Israeli. And later, when.

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Speaker 3: Israel occupied the rest of Jerusalem and the city was unified,

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Speaker 3: my great grandmother did go looking for her children, but

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Speaker 3: my grandfather didn't connect with her, so her son and

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Speaker 3: moved to Jordan. Now from my mother, I also pressed

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Speaker 3: for more information. She had never told me any of

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Speaker 3: the story, but this year, literally a few weeks ago,

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Speaker 3: she finally gave me Rachel's last name. I dug around

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Speaker 3: to see what I could find out about her. I

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Speaker 3: asked online. I got the help of people who had

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Speaker 3: expertise in Jewish genealogy, and what I found was a

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Speaker 3: much more complicated picture. First, I found an academic article

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Speaker 3: about a quote non partisan Zionist youth group in Belgium

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Speaker 3: in the nineteen twenties and nineteen thirties. I don't speak Hebrew,

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Speaker 3: so I'm going to mispronounce this. I think it's called

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Speaker 3: zeier Ham getting their members ready to make the journey

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Speaker 3: to Palestine. That's what this article was about. They were

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Speaker 3: nonpartisan in the sense that they included a lot of

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Speaker 3: different strains of Zionism, so right wing Zionism, left wing

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Speaker 3: Zionism among the members, but the Zionism itself, of course

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Speaker 3: was taken as a given. Now, the article included quotes

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Speaker 3: from former members of this group and kind of grainy

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Speaker 3: black and white photos of which the name Rachel appeared

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Speaker 3: in the captions with her last name. And when I

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Speaker 3: first saw the woman identified as Rachel in this group photo,

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Speaker 3: I knew instinctively that I had found her because she

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Speaker 3: looked like a blonde version of my mother. My intuition

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Speaker 3: was very quickly confirmed because Rachel was identified by her

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Speaker 3: married Palestinian name in the footnotes where she was quoted.

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Speaker 3: So I found her here she was. I wanted to

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Speaker 3: know more about what had happened to her after these

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Speaker 3: pictures Belgium were taken. The article states that she immigrated

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Speaker 3: to Palstine in the early nineteen thirties at the encouragement

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Speaker 3: of her quote Zionist mother. But what had led her

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Speaker 3: between nineteen thirty three and nineteen forty eight to marry

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Speaker 3: and then leave a Palestinian And then why was she

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Speaker 3: visiting her grandchildren and apparently me in the nineteen nineties.

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Speaker 3: The second big piece of information I got was because

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Speaker 3: of a Blue Sky account puy m Und Genealogy. This

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Speaker 3: is a person who works on Jewish genealogy, has an

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Speaker 3: interest in it, and he helped find an article that

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Speaker 3: had been written about my great grandmother in the Israeli

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Speaker 3: magazine Mahrev. So shout out to this guy. Now. This

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Speaker 3: article was dated June twelfth, nineteen eighty seven. It's a

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Speaker 3: three page spread and in this interview that Rachel gives,

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Speaker 3: she talks about her childhood in Antwerp, her immigration to

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Speaker 3: Palestine as a young woman, and her marriage. So apparently

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Speaker 3: after her civil ceremony with my great grandfather in nineteen

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Speaker 3: thirty five, they had traveled Acros Europe for a whole year,

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Speaker 3: even meeting the extended family in Poland, where Rachel's family

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Speaker 3: was originally from. Her new husband was honored by her uncle,

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Speaker 3: who was an important rabbi. Now, for reasons she does

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Speaker 3: not outline, Rachel discusses leaving her husband, maybe assuming the

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Speaker 3: separation would be temporary in nineteen forty eight, But unlike

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Speaker 3: the story that my father had heard and I had

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Speaker 3: been told, she had not left her children, and in

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Speaker 3: fact there had been four of them. She left two

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Speaker 3: of them with their father and took the eldest and

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Speaker 3: the baby that she was pregnant with to West Jerusalem.

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Speaker 3: She kept her married name, and she never officially divorced.

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Speaker 3: I can only assume that she didn't guess the city

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Speaker 3: would be divided, or maybe didn't understand for how long now,

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Speaker 3: when Israel took the rest of the city in nineteen

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Speaker 3: sixty seven, she not only reconnected with her I guess

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Speaker 3: Palestinian children, but it seems from this article had warm

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Speaker 3: relationships with them until the end. Rachel had assisted my grandfather,

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Speaker 3: her son in marrying my grandmother, compiling the dowry. The

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Speaker 3: children who had been raised ISRAELI had reconnected with their

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Speaker 3: family to varying degrees. Some of the Pastinian children visited

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Speaker 3: the Israeli children in Tel Aviv. According to this interview,

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Speaker 3: Rachel even reconnected with her husband, my great grandfather, living

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Speaker 3: with him until he passed in nineteen eighty three. Rachel

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Speaker 3: had also maintained a relationship with her daughter in law,

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Speaker 3: my maternal grandmother, even after her son's divorce. In this article,

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Speaker 3: I recognized the descriptions of my mother and my aunts.

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Speaker 3: Rachel had kept visiting them until she died in the

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Speaker 3: mid nineteen nineties, so that explains the visit that my

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Speaker 3: father had witnessed. I quickly realized that, of course, it

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Speaker 3: had been easier for many members of my family to

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Speaker 3: pretend this had never happened, try to keep the truth

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Speaker 3: of these relationships from their children. I suppose they preferred

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Speaker 3: a neater's story of clean breaks and solid national divisions.

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Speaker 3: It is also not long on me that much of

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Speaker 3: this obfuscation relies on the common misogynistic trope of the

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Speaker 3: negligent mother, which was apparently easy for everyone to believe. Now,

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Speaker 3: I won't say that israel Pastinian marriages are common, or

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Speaker 3: that intimate relationships between the two groups are easy to find,

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Speaker 3: but they aren't unheard of. Israeli political parties are certainly

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Speaker 3: scared enough of this prospect. They often voice condemnations of

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Speaker 3: inter ethnic relationships of this kind. So this phenomenon must

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Speaker 3: exist at some level, and I guess I shouldn't be

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Speaker 3: surprised either, because Palestine's most well known poet, Mahmud Rush,

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Speaker 3: was famous for his poetry, among many of them a

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Speaker 3: poem he wrote to his Jewish girlfriend titled Rita. This

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Speaker 3: was the same man that joined the PLO, lived through

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Speaker 3: the Israeli siege of Beirut, and wrote the pawsdinan declaration

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Speaker 3: of independence. Now, Rachel's story really boggled my mind in

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Speaker 3: its contradictions because she had been part of a Zionist

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Speaker 3: youth group, she had actively joined an effort to facilitate

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Speaker 3: the migration of your or Jewish population to Palestine, eventually

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Speaker 3: leading to the displacement of Palestinians. But she had married

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Speaker 3: to Palestinian and in the interview from Ariv, she describes

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Speaker 3: running to the eastern part of the city when Israel

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Speaker 3: occupied it in nineteen sixty seven to see quote her friends,

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Speaker 3: and she says she would marry my great grandfather all

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Speaker 3: over again. If she could you see, dear, it was

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Speaker 3: a great love, she told their interviewer. Ironically, my parents

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Speaker 3: and my maternal grandparents, all of which share national and

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Speaker 3: religious identities, both ended up divorced, but Rachel and her

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Speaker 3: Palestinian Muslim husband somehow state together. At the same time.

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Speaker 3: Rachel turned a blind eye to many things, and she

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Speaker 3: herself hid many things. For example, she doesn't reveal the

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Speaker 3: details of her children raised as Israeli. The interviewer in

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Speaker 3: the mar Of magazine interview emphasizes that they wouldn't want

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Speaker 3: their information known, especially about their lineage. It seems that

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Speaker 3: neither ever reconnected with their palsinan father and most telling

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Speaker 3: for me in that interview, when my maternal grandmother, Rachel's

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Speaker 3: daughter in law, complains of the Israeli soldiers in the

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Speaker 3: neighborhood that she lived in, the interviewer reports that Rachel

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Speaker 3: feigns deafness and returns the conversation to a discussion of

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Speaker 3: the children. Now, Rachel isn't abnormal. Israeli society has turned

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Speaker 3: a blind eye to many things. Many Israelis pretend that

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Speaker 3: the Palestinians as a national group do not exist they

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Speaker 3: prefer to think of them, preferred to think of us

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Speaker 3: as the reincarnation of Nazis, or the modern day manifestation

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Speaker 3: of anti Semitism, or at best, Palestinians are merely generic

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Speaker 3: Arabs with easily sever ties to this particular land. The

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Speaker 3: Israeli state even grows pine trees over emptied and demolished

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Speaker 3: Palestinian villages to ensure return is impossible and to hide

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Speaker 3: the extent of what happened in the latest war on Gaza.

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Speaker 3: Images and videos from Gaza are dismissed as Ai fabrications.

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Speaker 3: They call it Pollywood, just an effort by Palestinians to

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Speaker 3: put Israel in a bad light, and governments the world

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Speaker 3: over seemed to have taken this position of turning a

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Speaker 3: blind eye to the oppression Palstinians have faced and assuming

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Speaker 3: Palstinians would live and die never having exercised their basic rights.

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Speaker 3: All I can say is I'm living proof that these

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Speaker 3: silences prolong the inevitable, that the truth eventually comes out

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Speaker 3: and the return is inevitable. The longer we wait to

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Speaker 3: acknowledge the reality of the situation, the more people will suffer,

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Speaker 3: and the more this kind of intergenerational trauma will continue.

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Speaker 3: I recently finished Molly Krabapple's book Here where We Live

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Speaker 3: as Our Country. On the Jewish Bound, she quotes a

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Speaker 3: Jewish Bundislivic Hodes saying that quote, belief in mankind is

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Speaker 3: not popular today. In these last years, we have all

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Speaker 3: seen it become deeply debased, despoiled and spat on. But

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Speaker 3: if man is at heart a beast, no amount of

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Speaker 3: running away will help end quote. This really resonated with me.

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Speaker 3: I firmly believe that we can't rely on silence to

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Speaker 3: disappear our problems. We can't run from each other. Let

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Speaker 3: my family history be a testament to that. When we

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Speaker 3: understand that, then the truth and the resolution and the

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Speaker 3: return is only a matter of time, and maybe then

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Speaker 3: the nakba will end. Thank you for listening and hope

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Speaker 3: you all stay safe.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to It could happen here, a podcast about going

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Speaker 1: on strike and hopefully winning. I am your host, Mia Wong.

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Speaker 1: There's a concept in You're in Organizing called a hot shop,

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Speaker 1: which is a shop where everything is moving really really quickly,

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Speaker 1: and people are organizing really quickly, and bad stuff is

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Speaker 1: happening really quickly, and people are reacting really quickly, and

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Speaker 1: today we are going to talk to maybe the hottest

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Speaker 1: shop I have ever encountered, and to discuss the shop.

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Speaker 1: I am talking to Jackie May and Deja Indigo, who

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Speaker 1: are members and organizers of Real You Electrolysis Workers United.

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Speaker 1: Both of you two, welcome to the show.

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Speaker 6: Hi, thank you, thank you for having us, Thank you

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Speaker 6: for having us on such short notice. You said hot shop,

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Speaker 6: and yeah, it's been a week, very hot week.

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Speaker 1: Indeed, I had heard this was going on and it

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Speaker 1: was there's an attempt to go public. The next thing

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Speaker 1: I heard was like the next day and there was

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Speaker 1: a strike.

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Speaker 7: And I was like, oh my god, this is wild.

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Speaker 7: So yeah, not even a week ago. Yeah, it will be.

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Speaker 1: I think by the time you're listening to this it

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Speaker 1: will be one week.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, okay, that's fair. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I want to mention this is being recorded on Monday

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Speaker 1: and May twenty fifth. This situation is moving very quickly.

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Speaker 1: There was a chance that things have changed by then.

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Speaker 1: We will try to get an update in if something

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Speaker 1: really major hass happened. But let's roll this back to

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Speaker 1: the beginning. And I think the place I want to

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Speaker 1: start is so you all are gets real You electrolysis

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Speaker 1: workers United. So you are electrolysis workers. I know this

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Speaker 1: audience specifically of it could happen here has a significantly

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Speaker 1: higher chance of the general population to know what electrolysis is.

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Speaker 1: But can you explain for people who don't know or

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Speaker 1: only kind of familiar, what electrolysis is.

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Speaker 7: Of course, electrolysis is the only FDA recognized method of

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Speaker 7: permanent hair removal. It is a technique that dates back

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Speaker 7: a surprisingly long time where we insert a filament about

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Speaker 7: the size of a hair into individual hair follicles, and

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Speaker 7: with the use of electricity to generate either heat or lie,

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Speaker 7: we basically kill each hair follicle at its root, and

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Speaker 7: that hair, if all goes according to plan, will not

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Speaker 7: come back. It is commonly used in gender affirming care,

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Speaker 7: and that is one of the if not the specialty

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Speaker 7: of real you electrolysis.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and can you talk a bit about this in

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Speaker 1: a gender affirming care context?

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Speaker 7: Of course, you know, if you are a transgender person

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Speaker 7: and you are undergoing medical transition, there is a variety

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Speaker 7: of reasons you might want to have hair permanently removed,

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Speaker 7: either in preparation for surgery, both in terms of a

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Speaker 7: transfeminine or trans masculine surgical context, you will need hair

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Speaker 7: permanently removed from some parts of your body that will

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Speaker 7: be involved in that. You also may want to have

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Speaker 7: facial hair or body hair permanently removed. Again, this supplies

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Speaker 7: to both transfeminine, transmasculine, and people anywhere else on the

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Speaker 7: transgender spectrum, because you know, not everybody wants to have

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Speaker 7: body hair or facial hair.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is something that I mean, I can

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Speaker 1: personally say you can get a lot of dysphoria from

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Speaker 1: body hair.

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Speaker 7: It can be real bad. Oh yeah, I can't.

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Speaker 1: And not having it is such a huge difference. Yes,

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Speaker 1: And I guess a thing that I should say, so

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Speaker 1: my understanding of electrolysisms. I have not done electrolysists. I

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Speaker 1: have a lot of friends you have. But the thing

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Speaker 1: about electrolysis versus like you know, shaving or something, is

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Speaker 1: that once you hit a hair follicle, it's gone, and theoretically,

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Speaker 1: after you're done with you know, like a bunch of

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Speaker 1: the sessions, you just.

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Speaker 7: Don't have hair growing daring. Yes, correct, And also I

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Speaker 7: should note that it is also covered by most health

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Speaker 7: insurance that does coverage under affirming care I know we

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Speaker 7: all have kind of mixed feelings about the w PATH standards,

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Speaker 7: but it is considered the standard of care for hair

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Speaker 7: removal under the w PATH. So, you know, a significant

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Speaker 7: proportion of the patients at the really electron this clinic

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Speaker 7: are using insurance to pay for their care. Yeah, which

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Speaker 7: is really cool.

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Speaker 1: Not all trans healthcare is that expensive, but electrolysis is

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Speaker 1: not the most cheap thing if you are paying out

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Speaker 1: of pocket and it's really long.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, it's usually out of pocket. Is somewhere between one

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Speaker 7: hundred and twenty to two hundred and forty dollars an hour,

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Speaker 7: depending on your provider. And these are weekly sessions, usually

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Speaker 7: at least an hour. Sometimes they can be less for

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Speaker 7: those who have difficulty tolerating it. Some people go for

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Speaker 7: even more, like some patients may elect to get like

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Speaker 7: six hours of it done. But again, this is a

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Speaker 7: lot of out of pocket costs, especially when it generally

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Speaker 7: takes anywhere from a year and a half to three

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Speaker 7: years to fully clear an area. So this is why

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Speaker 7: it's so important to have this covered by insurance because

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Speaker 7: has it really adds up quickly.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think this is also gets into what's

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Speaker 1: important about this shop, which is that this is one

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Speaker 1: of the few Latrills's places I've ever encountered where huge

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Speaker 1: portions of the staff are trans. Yes, and yeah, can

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Speaker 1: you talk a bit about what that's been like doing

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Speaker 1: you know, like doing this kind of gender firming care

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Speaker 1: on other trans people who normally could say this is

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Speaker 1: a medical setting. I can count on one finger the

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Speaker 1: number of trans healthcare providers. I mean, I guess if

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Speaker 1: you count pharmacists, I can add like a second finger

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Speaker 1: in my entire life that I'm extremely lucky that I've

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Speaker 1: even gotten one.

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Speaker 7: Trans hectare provider who is trans.

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Speaker 6: Well, it's an honor and a privilege to be able

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Speaker 6: to work with other trans people for gender firm and

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Speaker 6: care for our community. Because we don't just serve the

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Speaker 6: Vancouver area, we also serve the PDX area.

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Speaker 7: And further, we have patients that commute from hours and

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Speaker 7: hours away. That is true.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for people who don't know a little bit of

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Speaker 1: geography stuff that will become important later. So this is Vancouver, Washington,

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Speaker 1: which is just like right across a river from Portland.

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Speaker 1: This amazingly the fact that technically speaking, this river is

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Speaker 1: like the state border will become important in that little bit.

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Speaker 7: Yes, yes, yes, it will. Oh boy. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So I'm gonna I'm gonna ask all of you know,

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Speaker 1: put a little pin in city that is technically across

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Speaker 1: the state border from another city, but is like you

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Speaker 1: just drive over a bridge and you're there. Let's go

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Speaker 1: talk about some strike shit. Mm hmm Okay, so I

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Speaker 1: guess to start. Can we talk about how organizing kind

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Speaker 1: of first started at at Real Yola Chuls's.

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Speaker 8: Yes, it first started because they hired me mi a

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Speaker 8: and hied me. Ever since I was a little girl,

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Speaker 8: I have been enchanted with the idea of a workers

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Speaker 8: union and people working together to make their conditions better.

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Speaker 7: It is something that I have had to learn and.

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Speaker 6: Practice on my own because I didn't know about the IWW.

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Speaker 6: It's a thing that I was trying to do before

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Speaker 6: I moved out here. And then this opportunity just drops

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Speaker 6: into my lap and it's queer people, and you're working

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Speaker 6: on queer people. I've got hosbumps. It's not because I'm cold,

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Speaker 6: and and how could I, in good conscience just like

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Speaker 6: let that opportunity go.

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Speaker 7: Yeah. Yeah, Jackie May is very much the motive force

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Speaker 7: behind getting our shit together and unionizing. I remember from

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Speaker 7: the time that I started, Jackie May was talking about

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Speaker 7: having a goal to unionize the shop. We weren't expecting

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Speaker 7: it to be on such a quick timeline, but I

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Speaker 7: was really excited to have somebody else who was into

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Speaker 7: doing this because I've always been a hardcore leftist and

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Speaker 7: an extreme socialist communist. I don't know whatever label you

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Speaker 7: want to put on me workers' rights, like we should

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Speaker 7: own the means of production and we should be the

435
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 7: ones receiving all of the benefits from it. Yea, But

436
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:46,919
Speaker 7: Jackie May has just been like ready to go. But

437
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:51,240
Speaker 7: we can also talk about like the actual start to

438
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,359
Speaker 7: like okay, what did we actually start doing things to

439
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 7: this direction?

440
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:55,440
Speaker 9: Right?

441
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:56,800
Speaker 7: You want to take that, Jackie May.

442
00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 6: Yeah, So like light to have been going on since

443
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:05,960
Speaker 6: I got there back in actually June of last year.

444
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,800
Speaker 6: It's always just been real light, real surface level is in, hey,

445
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:13,240
Speaker 6: do you support a union? Would you like to consider.

446
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 10: Being in one?

447
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 7: One day?

448
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 6: And then I go about my day like converse like

449
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,359
Speaker 6: that's as far as the conversation goes, because that's all

450
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 6: the information I need at that point. Yeah, so I

451
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 6: knew who in the building was yes, and last month

452
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 6: one of our members, someone who was already in talks

453
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 6: with us, was fired, and the circumstances around that person

454
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:45,359
Speaker 6: being fired, the vibes were off. Right, Like the previous week,

455
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 6: there was a dirty cart that just happened to appear

456
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,880
Speaker 6: in her room that would be worth the write up

457
00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:00,440
Speaker 6: to get her fired. Huh, that cart couldn't have been

458
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 6: hers because before she started school, she moved that cart

459
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:10,480
Speaker 6: to another to her substitute clinicians room. Like, could could

460
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:14,120
Speaker 6: not be what management said it was.

461
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,880
Speaker 1: So it looks like something else fabricated to.

462
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 7: Clarify this union member, This coworker was going on a

463
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 7: leave of absence to attend a certification training program, so

464
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:33,720
Speaker 7: that is why she had a substitute clinician taking over

465
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 7: her equipment. I should also add that this was the

466
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:42,439
Speaker 7: first time they have ever done room inspections on site yea.

467
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 7: In fact, the only they've only done room inspections twice

468
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 7: and both times resulted in a termination. Well that's not

469
00:27:52,600 --> 00:28:00,719
Speaker 7: suspicious at all anyway, Sorry, Jackie Maye, please continue, No worries.

470
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:03,119
Speaker 7: It's okay, We're listen. We're allowed to rabbit trail.

471
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:08,200
Speaker 6: But we come back to So our friend was fired, right,

472
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 6: it's super duper suspicious. Yeah, And I saw an opportunity

473
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:20,200
Speaker 6: and I took that opportunity to talk to people about it.

474
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:23,879
Speaker 6: And for like a few days after this it happened,

475
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 6: nobody knew where she was at, nobody knew what happened.

476
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:31,359
Speaker 6: So the narrative was entirely up to me and just going,

477
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:35,200
Speaker 6: this is what they did, and we all know this.

478
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 6: We all know this person, We've worked alongside this person,

479
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 6: we all recognize her skill and how intelligent she is.

480
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 6: She's going to go on to teach this stuff. It's true,

481
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 6: and it made all of us scared that one of

482
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 6: our best could just be removed like that and go.

483
00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 1: This is my understanding. This is a pretty small shop, right,

484
00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:01,720
Speaker 1: like everyone knows everyone else.

485
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 7: Oh yeah, yes, yeah, like maybe maybe fifteen or sixteen

486
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 7: practicing clinicians at a given time.

487
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 1: Thereabouts, which yeah, I guess makes it more scary when

488
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 1: it's someone you know, when you're close to, just is

489
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:17,720
Speaker 1: just suddenly fired.

490
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 7: And I should note that most of us who have

491
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 7: worked there are also patients there, so like a lot

492
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 7: of these a lot of our coworkers are not just coworkers,

493
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 7: they're also practitioners that provide gender affirming care to us.

494
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 7: So we don't just have like a superficial sense of

495
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 7: the clinical skill of these people. We have direct experience,

496
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 7: and that makes it just that much more devastating. When

497
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 7: it's somebody you know is extremely good at their job

498
00:29:53,840 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 7: is just suddenly gone under very suspicious circumstances, it's devastating.

499
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 1: So this gets into one of the truly wildest and

500
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 1: most distressing parts of this entire story, which is, can

501
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 1: you talk about the I guess I would just call it.

502
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 1: The most neutral thing I can call it is the loan. Yes, absolutely.

503
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 1: So remember when we kind of put a pin in

504
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 1: the fact that Vancouver, Washington, is right across the river

505
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 1: from Portland, Oregon. So there is a big difference between

506
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 1: how the state of Washington and how the state of

507
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 1: Oregon regulates the practice of electrolysis. In the state of Oregon,

508
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 1: you cannot practice electrolysis without first going through a certification

509
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 1: program and passing a certification exam to become certified. In

510
00:30:56,440 --> 00:31:00,240
Speaker 1: the state of Washington, as long as you are practicing

511
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 1: under the authority of somebody who has been certified in

512
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 1: another state, you can practice electrolysis without certification. In fact,

513
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 1: the state of Washington does not currently have their own

514
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 1: certification framework for electrolysis, so those of us who work

515
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 1: at Real EU Electrolysis were all hired without prior certification.

516
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 1: I think there may be one or two exceptions over

517
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 1: the years, but by and large, the overwhelming majority are

518
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 1: people who have no prior experience performing electrolysis. So Really

519
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 1: You Electrolicists does have certified electrologists on staff who are

520
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 1: responsible for the training of new hires.

521
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 7: One of the conditions of employment at Real U Electrolysis

522
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 7: is to agree to sign a promissory note, wherein Really

523
00:31:55,840 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 7: You Electrolicis will basically provide a stipend and pay for

524
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:08,960
Speaker 7: all expenses related to receiving certification from a certification program

525
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:16,240
Speaker 7: in exchange for four years of work at real Electrolysis.

526
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 7: Those who sign this note are not required to directly

527
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 7: pay back any money unless they either fail to complete

528
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:30,040
Speaker 7: their schooling, fail to pass their certification, resign their position

529
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 7: within four years, or are terminated, and at that point

530
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 7: they are immediately liable to repay the full amount of

531
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 7: the promissory note. So essentially, as soon as you enter

532
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 7: schooling and again this is a condition of employment. Every

533
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 7: single person who has been hired by really Electrolysis could

534
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 7: not start working without signing a contract. Agreeing to sign

535
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 7: those prom story note when it comes time to be

536
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 7: sent to school.

537
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, can you talk about, like, how much money is

538
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 1: it that you have to pay back if you either

539
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 1: get fired or leave.

540
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 7: At least twenty one thousand dollars in this case, Jesus

541
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 7: Christ like, oh my god.

542
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 11: Yeah, it's cartoonishly evil.

543
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 7: Yeah. I should clarify as well that most of us

544
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 7: who are hired are not coming into this job from

545
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 7: a place of financial privilege. Most of us had some

546
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 7: manner of skepticism over this contract, but because the opportunity

547
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 7: just seemed so great, and because we had not heard

548
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 7: any history of, you know, any sort of bad faith

549
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 7: actions from management, I think we all just kind of decided, well,

550
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 7: I get to work with a bunch of cool trans

551
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 7: people on a bunch of cool trans people for decent

552
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 7: pay and benefits, and they probably won't just fire me

553
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 7: once I signed this loan, Like that wouldn't be cool.

554
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 7: And so where this really comes into play is that

555
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 7: the union member, the coworker who was fired, as I

556
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:15,360
Speaker 7: mentioned before, was on a leave of absence to be

557
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 7: in school, and basically she was fired and immediately they

558
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 7: demanded repayment in full of this loan. So not only

559
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 7: did she lose her job over extremely spurious circumstances, she

560
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 7: now was on the hook for twenty one thousand dollars,

561
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 7: like immediately. I think the deadline they gave her is

562
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:40,720
Speaker 7: in like two days.

563
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:45,280
Speaker 6: So I want to add something to all of that. Yeah,

564
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 6: they had her sign that loan knowing that she had

565
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 6: two write ups on the books and that her next

566
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 6: write up within those four years would lead to termination.

567
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 6: They knew that they have that on file.

568
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 7: They admitted that to our faces. We had a group

569
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 7: of witnesses who can attest to this because we did

570
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 7: all confront them. That's jumping a little bit further ahead

571
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 7: in the story. We'll get there.

572
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:18,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just I want to stay here for a

573
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:24,320
Speaker 1: second to just sort of just walk through how unbelievably

574
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 1: unhinged this is.

575
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 7: Which is that.

576
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:29,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, So the condition of working here is that you

577
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 1: have to sign like what is effectively an a dentured servitude contract.

578
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:38,839
Speaker 1: Like it's like, okay, you have to work here for

579
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:43,759
Speaker 1: like four years, and if we ever decide to fire you,

580
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:46,879
Speaker 1: you can't leave. And if you ever decide to fire you,

581
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 1: you just oh twenty one thousand dollars, which just on

582
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 1: the face of it is such an unbelievably exploitive situation

583
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 1: because yeah, this is a bunch of queer and trance

584
00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:00,799
Speaker 1: people like no, no fucking transperson and has twenty one

585
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:04,439
Speaker 1: thousand dollars, Like that's just not a thing, Like yeah,

586
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:07,920
Speaker 1: we should certainly not one thousand dollars, Like what are

587
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:08,760
Speaker 1: we doing here.

588
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:09,080
Speaker 9: Like.

589
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 6: Taking advantage of the trans community.

590
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:17,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then you have that just as the baseline

591
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 1: condition of just everyone has just the doom of gamaicles

592
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 1: hanging over their head. And then also, you know, like

593
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:29,799
Speaker 1: what you were describing were, okay, you get someone to

594
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:32,360
Speaker 1: sign the contract knowing that you can get rid of

595
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 1: them after one more infraction. That's such an incredible incentive

596
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 1: to like mistreat and fire people, because if you fire someone,

597
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 1: you can just collect, like try to collect like twenty

598
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:46,720
Speaker 1: one thousand dollars from.

599
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:51,280
Speaker 6: Them, financially ruin somebody, financially destroy somebody, render them homeless.

600
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 7: Yeah, even Yeah, it's what we call a perverse incentive.

601
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can just reduce someone effectively into a debt

602
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:04,319
Speaker 1: peon and usually that kind of threat is abstract. This

603
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 1: is how we're It's a device to work and to

604
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:09,959
Speaker 1: stay in line. If you lose your job, then you're

605
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,440
Speaker 1: going to drown in all of the things you need

606
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:17,319
Speaker 1: to do to survive. But no, here, it's just yeah,

607
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 1: you're down twenty one dollars.

608
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 7: In debt to this company that just fired you. Yep,

609
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 7: and again that is due and payable immediately. That the

610
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:31,799
Speaker 7: way the contract is worded does not stipulate any sort

611
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 7: of repayment period. Now, we have attestations from previous employees

612
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 7: who have been fired under this contract and been released

613
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 7: from it, so we do know that the owners of

614
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 7: Really Electronicis will selectively choose to release terminated employees from

615
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:52,839
Speaker 7: their contract. However, they have elected not to do that

616
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 7: in the case of this union member, this coworker who

617
00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:58,400
Speaker 7: was fired last month. Correct.

618
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:02,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that also that also looks like retaliation your words,

619
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 1: like sort of deliberately your words. Yeah, you know, it

620
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:12,040
Speaker 1: doesn't look good. There aren't good answers as to why

621
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 1: you would do that in this situation and not in others.

622
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:17,440
Speaker 6: The story gets more fun too.

623
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 7: Oh yeah, yeah, we're just getting started.

624
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:23,359
Speaker 1: Before all of this gets even more unhinged, we need

625
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:27,239
Speaker 1: to go to I don't know, maybe a source of

626
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 1: hingedeness and security. I mean, if that's true, I hope

627
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:33,840
Speaker 1: better things happen in your lives. But we're throwing to

628
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:49,440
Speaker 1: the products and services that support this podcast. We are back.

629
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:56,640
Speaker 1: Let's continue with this story here and get to I

630
00:38:56,680 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 1: guess the next set of fir inks because this just

631
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 1: keeps escalating.

632
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 6: So before we actually get to the next set of firings,

633
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 6: we would have our first and Dejah correct me if

634
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 6: I'm wrong, our second meeting. You are correct, Yeah, we

635
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:19,760
Speaker 6: would have our first and second meeting before the next firing.

636
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:25,040
Speaker 7: May second, and May fourteenth. Yes, so that next firing

637
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:28,560
Speaker 7: would take place on Monday, May eighteenth.

638
00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:32,959
Speaker 1: That was Monday May eighteenth, Yeah, so like one week

639
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 1: ago from when this is getting recorded. Which bear that

640
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:37,719
Speaker 1: in mind as the rest of the story plays out,

641
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 1: because the timeline here is so condensed that like it's

642
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:45,200
Speaker 1: like all of the shit that happens with like a

643
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:47,839
Speaker 1: bad union busting campaign condensed to the span of like

644
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 1: three days.

645
00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:56,040
Speaker 6: Yes, we are speed running bad boss versus union workers story, Like.

646
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 7: This is like one of the fastest escalations I've ever

647
00:39:58,600 --> 00:39:59,720
Speaker 7: seen before.

648
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:01,880
Speaker 1: We get this Monday, Let's talk about what happened at

649
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:09,560
Speaker 1: those two meetings, because this is genuinely such an impressive pace, Like,

650
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:11,960
Speaker 1: how fast all of this got organized?

651
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:16,440
Speaker 7: Yes, So the first meeting May second, we basically gathered

652
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:21,759
Speaker 7: every clinician who we believed we could trust, who was

653
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:25,799
Speaker 7: not either a manager in training or did not have

654
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:29,360
Speaker 7: direct ties to management, and also who was on site,

655
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:31,279
Speaker 7: because there were some people that we would have loved

656
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:34,680
Speaker 7: to have talked to who were off site attending a

657
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:38,720
Speaker 7: certification program at another location. So we gathered up everyone

658
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:41,400
Speaker 7: we could. That started with about eight of us and

659
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:44,239
Speaker 7: grew to ten as the night war on. We talked

660
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 7: about the circumstances around the firing of that coworker who

661
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:53,439
Speaker 7: was in school. We all talked about our options for

662
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 7: how do we proceed. We voted unanimously to form a union,

663
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 7: and to do so under the auspices of the Industrial

664
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:05,719
Speaker 7: Workers of the world, thanks in part to Jackie May

665
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 7: having contact with them and having gotten a bit of

666
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:12,200
Speaker 7: a lowdown on like what our options looked like. Yeah,

667
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:16,920
Speaker 7: so that was the TLDR of the first meeting. Ten people.

668
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 1: That's like two thirds of the shop, like of the

669
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:20,440
Speaker 1: total people yet.

670
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 7: Yes, of the people who were active practicing clinicians there,

671
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:27,439
Speaker 7: I think we were only missing a couple.

672
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:30,239
Speaker 1: Yeap, which is really impressive. I wish we could have

673
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:30,640
Speaker 1: got them.

674
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 7: Yeah, we definitely wish we could have gotten to everybody

675
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:41,919
Speaker 7: or had been clearer on who was actually not management. Yeah,

676
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 7: that's also a thing that like management will play a

677
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:47,759
Speaker 7: lot of games with who isn't isn't union eligible? I

678
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 7: just want to like stop for a second and be

679
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:52,920
Speaker 7: like getting like two thirds or more of a shop

680
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 7: to show up to the first meeting and vote to

681
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 7: form a union is like that might be the fastest

682
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:00,960
Speaker 7: I've ever seen this happen. It's like you did this

683
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 7: in one meeting.

684
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:08,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, speed ran the entire organizing process like one meeting.

685
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:13,879
Speaker 7: It's like unbelievable. We put this on Gamestown quick too. Yeah,

686
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:18,279
Speaker 7: like I maybe I don't know. We could submit it

687
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:21,400
Speaker 7: for a world record with new world record category any

688
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 7: person unanimous. As they say, nobody organizes quite as well

689
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:30,240
Speaker 7: as a bad boss. That's true.

690
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:34,560
Speaker 1: You have, yeah, you have you have the double benefit

691
00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:37,759
Speaker 1: of bad boss firing people. And also like it's a

692
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:42,880
Speaker 1: bunch of queer and trance people, is like, yes, conditions

693
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 1: for organizing.

694
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:50,640
Speaker 7: Yes, So that meeting that was May second. The next

695
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:55,239
Speaker 7: meeting took place on May fourteenth. Now, Jackie Maye, do

696
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:56,920
Speaker 7: you want to talk a little bit before we talk

697
00:42:56,960 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 7: about this meeting about some of the things that happened

698
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:05,719
Speaker 7: in between the two meetings, like certain actions by management

699
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:12,719
Speaker 7: and people who are manager adjacent. Oh right, right, yeah, so.

700
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:21,359
Speaker 6: Our tools in laundry sterilization tech, maybe specialist, I'm not

701
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 6: quite sure on the word for it. Salem is married

702
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:32,359
Speaker 6: to our director of operations, Zeric Lee' that's no boy.

703
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:40,520
Speaker 6: But wait, there's more. Oh no, Salem actually approached at

704
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:44,160
Speaker 6: least one of our one of our union members to

705
00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:48,440
Speaker 6: ask directly if we were forming a union.

706
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:51,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, which, by the way, you're not allowed to do.

707
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:56,720
Speaker 1: You're not supposed to do that, but you know that's yeah, great,

708
00:43:56,880 --> 00:43:57,800
Speaker 1: incredible stuff.

709
00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:02,920
Speaker 6: It's a lovely gray area because Huz Melam isn't management.

710
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:06,920
Speaker 1: But technically isn't management. Is simply married. Did you married

711
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:15,680
Speaker 1: to management? It's technically technically illegal, but like management's really

712
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:17,319
Speaker 1: really not supposed to be doing that.

713
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:22,840
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think it also bears clarifying at this point

714
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:27,399
Speaker 7: that Xeric Lee, director of Operations and effectively the HR

715
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:34,440
Speaker 7: Department of really Electrolysis has absolutely heard Jackie May express

716
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:38,359
Speaker 7: positive union sentiment. M h, I forgot about that. This

717
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:42,879
Speaker 7: goes back to summer of twenty twenty five. Like, there

718
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:47,040
Speaker 7: have been multiple instances where people in management have directly

719
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:52,080
Speaker 7: heard Jackie May talking about being pro union. Granted, Jackie

720
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:56,840
Speaker 7: May has always been properly elliptical about it in the

721
00:44:56,840 --> 00:45:00,400
Speaker 7: presence of management. Not it's hard, but yeah, but the

722
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:06,120
Speaker 7: suspicion was clearly established long ago. Yeah, that is true.

723
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:10,920
Speaker 7: That is true. This will be important. Yeah, foreshadowing is

724
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:16,800
Speaker 7: a literary technique, so to continue during these two weeks

725
00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 7: in between meetings thereabouts. Yes, we did have Salem spouse

726
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 7: of the director of operations poking around asking questions. Oh boy.

727
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:28,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I will say this is also a very

728
00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 1: common management tactic of course, as part of why when

729
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 1: you're organizing you need to do the basic power mapping

730
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:36,520
Speaker 1: of figuring out who is close to the bosses and

731
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 1: who is close to management and what ties they have,

732
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:43,920
Speaker 1: because that dramatically affects Yeah, you two absolutely both know this,

733
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:47,000
Speaker 1: but for the listeners, Yeah, it's very important to figure

734
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:51,239
Speaker 1: out who the person who's married to management and will

735
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:52,080
Speaker 1: report to them.

736
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:52,440
Speaker 12: Beans.

737
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:57,520
Speaker 6: Yes, so I treated as game theory. I have treated

738
00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:01,080
Speaker 6: all of this like it has been a game. Yeah,

739
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:06,440
Speaker 6: because that's how I process it. That's that's that's all

740
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:07,440
Speaker 6: I needed to say about that.

741
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 7: Go ahead, deja. Yeah. So, to the credit of every

742
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:18,440
Speaker 7: union member, not a single person violated op SEC on

743
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:24,759
Speaker 7: this nobody confessed to any union organizing activity. Yeah, that

744
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:29,080
Speaker 7: doesn't change that they continued to be suspicious in any case.

745
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:33,080
Speaker 7: We had our second meeting on May fourteenth. At that meeting,

746
00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:38,279
Speaker 7: present were representatives from the IWW as well as a

747
00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:42,960
Speaker 7: representative from ILWU Local five, because at that point we

748
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 7: had not been formally endorsed by a union and we

749
00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:51,520
Speaker 7: wanted to get some perspectives from whoever was available to

750
00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:54,319
Speaker 7: speak to us, and those were the two shops that

751
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:57,600
Speaker 7: were available to come talk to us. At that meeting,

752
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:04,399
Speaker 7: we again voted unanimous lee to continue with organizing unionizing.

753
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 7: We were initially going to do it under the auspices

754
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:14,960
Speaker 7: of ILWU Local five. However, their onboarding protocols are a

755
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:18,840
Speaker 7: little bit more time consuming and involved than the IWW's

756
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:24,400
Speaker 7: and the following Monday, which Jackie May will be talking

757
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:27,560
Speaker 7: about in just a second. There were some circumstances that

758
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:31,520
Speaker 7: sort of forced us to go with the union. Who

759
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:35,160
Speaker 7: could get us on board lickety split. Yeah.

760
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:39,320
Speaker 6: So that Monday, I want to say, it was a midday.

761
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:41,640
Speaker 6: I had just finished with like my I want to say,

762
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 6: my first two people, and was I was on my

763
00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:47,960
Speaker 6: way to the breakroom to grab a drink, and on

764
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:53,480
Speaker 6: my way out, I see my coworker, fellow union member,

765
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 6: and even my housemate come out of her office flanked

766
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:03,240
Speaker 6: by real you electrolysis management.

767
00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:07,080
Speaker 7: And the last.

768
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:10,080
Speaker 6: Time I saw her that day was she had tears

769
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:12,799
Speaker 6: streaming down her face and she just goes, Jackie May.

770
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 6: They fired me, and I responded immediately, I got I

771
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:23,640
Speaker 6: want to say five for six of us to gather

772
00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:28,600
Speaker 6: outside of Director of Operation Zeric Lee's office and we

773
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:34,000
Speaker 6: voiced our displeasure. We voiced that our coworkers should have

774
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:37,840
Speaker 6: their jobs back. We voice that none of us feel

775
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:40,680
Speaker 6: safe because of the working conditions. None of us feel

776
00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:45,080
Speaker 6: safe because of the way management goes about handing out

777
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:51,680
Speaker 6: disciplinary actions, the inconsistency with the different things that they

778
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:55,520
Speaker 6: will or will not punish. I just see his eyes

779
00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:59,320
Speaker 6: peeking up over his monitor, and he's like, well, I can't.

780
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:04,200
Speaker 6: I can't discuss what's in somebody's personnel file, and also

781
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:07,160
Speaker 6: I can't hire them back. My hands are tied. You

782
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:09,520
Speaker 6: don't know all of the documentation on our side. So

783
00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 6: I go, Okay, who else do we got to talk to?

784
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 6: And xeric Lee points us to President of Real You

785
00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:20,000
Speaker 6: Electrolysis on a lantry, and we go down to her

786
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:23,640
Speaker 6: office and we say the same things, and she says,

787
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:31,960
Speaker 6: I'm not what I'm paraphrasing. I cannot make unilateral decisions. Yes,

788
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:35,040
Speaker 6: And I asked who else we would have to talk

789
00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:38,279
Speaker 6: to about this, and she said that would be a

790
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:42,680
Speaker 6: co president, Lea La Favor and director of Operation Xeric Lee.

791
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:48,280
Speaker 6: I turned around and right across the hallway from Onna's

792
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:54,440
Speaker 6: office is Leah in reception. So we give them the

793
00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:58,839
Speaker 6: exact same spiel of we're not happy with this, this

794
00:49:58,920 --> 00:49:59,880
Speaker 6: needs to be corrected.

795
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:03,239
Speaker 7: None of us feel safe about this. And this was

796
00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:08,320
Speaker 7: not simply Jackie may speaking either those of us present

797
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:13,960
Speaker 7: all voice concerns, myself included. You know, it was very

798
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:17,960
Speaker 7: clearly not the actions of a single individual, but of

799
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:19,240
Speaker 7: a concertive group.

800
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:23,799
Speaker 6: Yes, they may trust me to speak for them, but

801
00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:26,239
Speaker 6: I also know when to be quiet so that they

802
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:32,160
Speaker 6: can voice their opinions. At that point, Desia had finished

803
00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:35,439
Speaker 6: with all of their appointments and said, Hey, I'm done

804
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:38,920
Speaker 6: for the day. I'm going home. This isn't me giving

805
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:41,560
Speaker 6: you an official resignation. I need to go home and

806
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:46,040
Speaker 6: consider my options. And I followed suit with I'm not

807
00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:50,280
Speaker 6: giving you a resignation. You have essentially created a family

808
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:54,160
Speaker 6: emergency for me, and now I have to go see

809
00:50:54,200 --> 00:51:00,120
Speaker 6: to that family emergency. That is important. We will come

810
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:04,480
Speaker 6: back to that interaction, oh boy later, yes.

811
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:05,440
Speaker 7: I will say.

812
00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:08,120
Speaker 1: Being one of the two presidents of the company and

813
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:11,760
Speaker 1: someone goes, don't fire our coworkers and you go, sorry,

814
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:15,359
Speaker 1: that's not like I can't make unilateral decisions is the

815
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:18,560
Speaker 1: most absolutely chicken shit response I've ever seen in my

816
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:22,480
Speaker 1: entire life. Like it's like, it's like fucking it's fucking

817
00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:25,080
Speaker 1: like verdev I'm braun. Like when the rockets go up,

818
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:27,600
Speaker 1: who cares where they come down? That's not my department.

819
00:51:27,640 --> 00:51:35,000
Speaker 1: It's like you are the president of the company, like I.

820
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:38,280
Speaker 7: What are we doing here? Like like I don't.

821
00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:43,760
Speaker 1: Make nilateral decisions, like you are the president, Like there's

822
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:45,799
Speaker 1: like three people management.

823
00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:47,080
Speaker 7: What are we doing here?

824
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:49,000
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess that's like, I mean, the thing

825
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:51,279
Speaker 1: you're doing here is everyone in secession is trying to

826
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:53,720
Speaker 1: be like, Ah, I actually can't do anything.

827
00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:58,280
Speaker 7: It's like, yes, you can, you do run the business.

828
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:03,640
Speaker 7: But I would also like to note that this conversation

829
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:08,000
Speaker 7: held between the group of us with Hon Lantry and

830
00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:11,520
Speaker 7: Lela Favor. Very early on in that conversation, on a

831
00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:16,120
Speaker 7: Lantry said this conversation is over and walked away. However, Leah, yeah,

832
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:19,520
Speaker 7: they did continue to have a conversation with us, and

833
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:24,239
Speaker 7: was the person that we informed that we are not resigning.

834
00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:28,120
Speaker 7: Anybody who leaves today is doing so because their schedule

835
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:31,120
Speaker 7: is clear, or they are having a family emergency. Both

836
00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:35,600
Speaker 7: of these things are acceptable reasons for leaving your shift,

837
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:38,560
Speaker 7: and that has been established through ample precedent.

838
00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:40,960
Speaker 1: Yeah.

839
00:52:41,160 --> 00:52:44,360
Speaker 7: So that was Monday. That was Monday, May eighteenth.

840
00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:48,440
Speaker 6: Jesus Christ, that's not even all of Monday, right, I

841
00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:55,160
Speaker 6: want to point out or include that straight from the

842
00:52:55,280 --> 00:52:59,920
Speaker 6: job site, I went home, I grabbed my other roommate,

843
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:03,920
Speaker 6: who is at the time wasn't a part of the union,

844
00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:08,839
Speaker 6: because wasn't an employee of real EU electrolysis, but is

845
00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:11,640
Speaker 6: on the real EU Electrolysis hiring list.

846
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:14,240
Speaker 7: So is it a contractor situation?

847
00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:18,600
Speaker 6: Not quiet, they will work with us in the future.

848
00:53:18,719 --> 00:53:21,560
Speaker 1: Oh, it just like hasn't been fully hired.

849
00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:23,560
Speaker 7: Yeah, that's kind of the way they do things, Like

850
00:53:23,600 --> 00:53:26,200
Speaker 7: they hire people well in advance of having them actually

851
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:29,879
Speaker 7: start work, Like most of us were hired like months

852
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:33,480
Speaker 7: and months and months before we started actually taking shifts.

853
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:38,799
Speaker 6: So Monday, I go home, I pick up my housemate

854
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:45,360
Speaker 6: who is incredible and has a special interest in documentation

855
00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:52,520
Speaker 6: and bureaucracy. She and Deja are my two documenters and

856
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:57,920
Speaker 6: shout out, shout out Tovey because we wouldn't have been

857
00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:01,759
Speaker 6: able to get here without you. And we went to

858
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:06,320
Speaker 6: the IWW over in Portland and we had a meeting

859
00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:09,719
Speaker 6: with them, and we just walked in there with the

860
00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:13,320
Speaker 6: intention of asking for help from like their solidarity network

861
00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:16,920
Speaker 6: of like, hey, we have just been put into a

862
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:20,200
Speaker 6: hardship status at this point because of what has happened.

863
00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:24,200
Speaker 6: Can you help us, like with rent And I want

864
00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:26,600
Speaker 6: to say that meeting was like two or three hours long.

865
00:54:26,719 --> 00:54:31,239
Speaker 6: We talked about a lot of plans moving forward and

866
00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:36,320
Speaker 6: instead of just having support with rent. We came away

867
00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:38,440
Speaker 6: with a plan of what we would be doing next,

868
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:47,000
Speaker 6: and Tuesday came. We had all eleven people of this

869
00:54:47,160 --> 00:54:50,560
Speaker 6: union meet in the parking lot and sign our petition together.

870
00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:55,200
Speaker 6: We got it photo copied, we made digital copies. We

871
00:54:55,239 --> 00:54:58,719
Speaker 6: made sure it was all safe. Our person got that

872
00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:03,560
Speaker 6: stuff filed away for us, got us some very nice

873
00:55:03,719 --> 00:55:06,480
Speaker 6: red folders to be able to keep all of these documentation,

874
00:55:06,680 --> 00:55:11,560
Speaker 6: and we were given I was given a red folder

875
00:55:11,680 --> 00:55:17,120
Speaker 6: labeled management and we planned to deliver this on Wednesday.

876
00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:23,839
Speaker 6: Tuesday was why Tuesday was like quiet before the storm.

877
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:26,400
Speaker 7: Quiet. Yeah, we were all.

878
00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:30,360
Speaker 6: Braced that I was going to be fired because while

879
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:36,080
Speaker 6: I wasn't swearing or rude to management, I wasn't as

880
00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:40,960
Speaker 6: even toned or level headed as I am right now.

881
00:55:41,719 --> 00:55:44,120
Speaker 7: I was also bracing to be fired because I did

882
00:55:44,200 --> 00:55:46,719
Speaker 7: also do a lot of that speaking, and I was

883
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:51,480
Speaker 7: extremely emotional at the time as well. Absolutely, Oh, I

884
00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:54,520
Speaker 7: do think there is one little tidbit that is important

885
00:55:54,520 --> 00:55:56,720
Speaker 7: to mention about the employee who was fired on Monday

886
00:55:56,800 --> 00:56:00,320
Speaker 7: is not only was this person union mem bur and

887
00:56:00,360 --> 00:56:04,680
Speaker 7: one of the organizers, this person also had a fully

888
00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:09,040
Speaker 7: like workplace sanctioned and endorsed romantic relationship with the first

889
00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:12,640
Speaker 7: person who was fired. Oh so, like again, this is

890
00:56:12,719 --> 00:56:15,759
Speaker 7: this is not like they were illicitly dating. It's like

891
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:18,480
Speaker 7: management had a protocol, had forms and all that for

892
00:56:18,520 --> 00:56:21,799
Speaker 7: when coworkers are dating. It's in the employee handbook that

893
00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:25,960
Speaker 7: they're okay with that. Yes, and so it looks.

894
00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:30,479
Speaker 13: So they're like moving through the Yeah, huh, that's that's

895
00:56:30,600 --> 00:56:37,200
Speaker 13: that's interesting. That's oh boy, I oh, yes, there's a

896
00:56:37,239 --> 00:56:41,680
Speaker 13: thing this an FAA guy said about. There's there's a

897
00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:43,759
Speaker 13: story of that guy who was like flying around in

898
00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:46,480
Speaker 13: a lawn chair with like balloons attached to it.

899
00:56:46,600 --> 00:56:48,520
Speaker 7: Oh my god, I know that story.

900
00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:51,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then the thing about that, the news calls

901
00:56:51,280 --> 00:56:55,520
Speaker 1: the FAA guy, and the FAA guy goes, we don't

902
00:56:55,560 --> 00:56:58,440
Speaker 1: know what section of the Federal Aviation Cody's violated, but

903
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:00,759
Speaker 1: when we figure it out, we'll prosecute with it. And like,

904
00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:04,479
Speaker 1: that has to be some kind of violation of like

905
00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:09,040
Speaker 1: like specifically targeting people in a relationship, Like there's there's

906
00:57:09,080 --> 00:57:15,360
Speaker 1: got to be something there, but I don't know. And admittedly,

907
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:18,040
Speaker 1: American workplace law is a complete nightmare. But that is

908
00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:22,440
Speaker 1: extremely sketchy and shitty, And yes.

909
00:57:22,720 --> 00:57:24,080
Speaker 7: We're going to get it sorted out.

910
00:57:26,200 --> 00:57:31,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh yes, yeah, I just oh boy, Jesus Christ,

911
00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:35,560
Speaker 1: that that feels not good and good lord.

912
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:37,840
Speaker 7: Okay, so Jackie may please continue.

913
00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:41,600
Speaker 6: I slept real good Tuesday night into Wednesday morning. Let

914
00:57:41,640 --> 00:57:45,520
Speaker 6: me just say that I slept real good Wednesday morning.

915
00:57:45,560 --> 00:57:50,520
Speaker 6: We coordinated and we went. We went a little early. Admittedly,

916
00:57:50,720 --> 00:57:53,160
Speaker 6: I got a little that there was a little bit

917
00:57:53,160 --> 00:57:55,600
Speaker 6: of adrenaline and I kind of jumped the gun, just

918
00:57:55,920 --> 00:57:58,280
Speaker 6: just a hair. We were supposed to wait until eleven

919
00:57:58,360 --> 00:58:00,480
Speaker 6: fifty five to deliver our sign petition.

920
00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:01,560
Speaker 7: It's okay.

921
00:58:02,280 --> 00:58:06,800
Speaker 6: Yeah, we all had new appointments and we are all

922
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:13,800
Speaker 6: so committed to our patients that none of this process

923
00:58:14,440 --> 00:58:20,040
Speaker 6: like interrupted patience in treatment. All of this had been

924
00:58:20,080 --> 00:58:23,960
Speaker 6: coordinated around our schedules so that people got to continue

925
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:24,720
Speaker 6: getting treatment.

926
00:58:25,120 --> 00:58:27,760
Speaker 7: That is correct. There's never been a point where a

927
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:31,200
Speaker 7: patience treatment session has been interrupted or a patient has

928
00:58:31,240 --> 00:58:35,720
Speaker 7: been abandoned. I'm saying this because there are some accusations

929
00:58:35,720 --> 00:58:37,920
Speaker 7: from management to that effect, and I would like it

930
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:41,680
Speaker 7: on public record that that is absolutely false and that

931
00:58:41,720 --> 00:58:46,760
Speaker 7: we can all attest to this foreshadowing more foreshadowing. Yes, boy, sorry,

932
00:58:47,040 --> 00:58:47,680
Speaker 7: oh boy.

933
00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:52,640
Speaker 6: So Wednesday morning I have the privilege, I have the

934
00:58:52,680 --> 00:58:58,640
Speaker 6: backing of the crew to go serve this paperwork. We

935
00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:02,600
Speaker 6: had somebody from the union kind of send out send

936
00:59:02,600 --> 00:59:06,600
Speaker 6: out a feeler text to find out when the president

937
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:09,440
Speaker 6: and co president would be in the building. It wouldn't

938
00:59:09,440 --> 00:59:12,920
Speaker 6: be until after twelve thirty. We serve that paperwork to

939
00:59:13,040 --> 00:59:18,120
Speaker 6: Director of Operation Xeric Lee. He took that at eleven

940
00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:23,440
Speaker 6: forty eight. He doesn't really give us a response. Besides,

941
00:59:23,480 --> 00:59:25,720
Speaker 6: there's a lot here. I'm going to have to read

942
00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:28,960
Speaker 6: it all thoroughly and get back to you. But we

943
00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:32,840
Speaker 6: go about our days. I have to leave site after

944
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:36,640
Speaker 6: two of my appointments because I left my phone at

945
00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:38,800
Speaker 6: a gas station, so I had to leave and come back.

946
00:59:39,240 --> 00:59:43,080
Speaker 7: It's okay, we got it. It's all good. Yay. Two

947
00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:43,840
Speaker 7: point fifty.

948
00:59:43,560 --> 00:59:47,680
Speaker 6: One, I'm back on site. I am in my own office.

949
00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:53,280
Speaker 6: I have co President Lee la Favor and one other

950
00:59:53,400 --> 00:59:57,720
Speaker 6: member of management president, and they are firing me. They

951
00:59:57,760 --> 01:00:01,800
Speaker 6: are handing me three right up. Is christ now The

952
01:00:02,080 --> 01:00:04,920
Speaker 6: earliest of those write ups, or I should say I

953
01:00:04,920 --> 01:00:08,720
Speaker 6: guess the oldest of those write ups are from May fourth,

954
01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:12,960
Speaker 6: twenty twenty six, and it essentially is a write up

955
01:00:13,080 --> 01:00:17,760
Speaker 6: that says Jackie, you were rude to management. Now let's

956
01:00:17,760 --> 01:00:22,600
Speaker 6: talk about why. Let's talk about why that write up happened.

957
01:00:23,040 --> 01:00:25,960
Speaker 6: You see, by that point in time, we were on

958
01:00:26,040 --> 01:00:30,680
Speaker 6: the third pay period where we were all being given

959
01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:32,000
Speaker 6: paper checks.

960
01:00:32,400 --> 01:00:36,360
Speaker 7: After years, yeah, years of direct deposit, like long history

961
01:00:36,360 --> 01:00:38,880
Speaker 7: of direct deposit only switched to paper checks.

962
01:00:39,120 --> 01:00:43,760
Speaker 6: We were given paper checks. Those checks had been bouncing.

963
01:00:45,520 --> 01:00:54,160
Speaker 7: The paychecks are bouncing. Yes, yeah, yes, yeah, that's not

964
01:00:54,240 --> 01:00:55,360
Speaker 7: just Jackie May's either.

965
01:00:55,880 --> 01:01:00,080
Speaker 6: Yes, Jesus Christ, that is true. That, like I'm what

966
01:01:00,080 --> 01:01:03,040
Speaker 6: I will say is on average, per pay period, like

967
01:01:03,080 --> 01:01:05,280
Speaker 6: a handful of us had their checks bounce.

968
01:01:05,960 --> 01:01:09,880
Speaker 7: That will come into play later. That's foreshadowing. Oh boy.

969
01:01:10,600 --> 01:01:15,439
Speaker 6: Yeah, so my check bounced once my bank account went okay,

970
01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:18,520
Speaker 6: that's kind of sus my check bounced a second time.

971
01:01:19,360 --> 01:01:22,400
Speaker 6: I currently don't have access to a bank account because

972
01:01:22,640 --> 01:01:25,400
Speaker 6: my bank has labeled what has happened fraudulent activity, and

973
01:01:25,560 --> 01:01:30,640
Speaker 6: my bank is investigating not me, because they've now figured

974
01:01:30,640 --> 01:01:32,640
Speaker 6: out that it's not me that's doing it. I can

975
01:01:32,680 --> 01:01:33,600
Speaker 6: prove the checks are.

976
01:01:33,480 --> 01:01:39,720
Speaker 1: Bouncing, Jesus Christ. But yeah, but they still locked your

977
01:01:39,760 --> 01:01:45,840
Speaker 1: bank account. Yeah, because the other people's checks bounts. Jesus Christ.

978
01:01:46,200 --> 01:01:49,160
Speaker 7: Yeah, so we should. We should note here that we

979
01:01:49,240 --> 01:01:52,280
Speaker 7: all were aware that Jackie May was locked out of

980
01:01:52,400 --> 01:01:57,240
Speaker 7: fair bank account and experiencing financial hardship to the point

981
01:01:57,320 --> 01:02:01,480
Speaker 7: where we actually did have some of our union members

982
01:02:01,560 --> 01:02:05,280
Speaker 7: like donating food to Jackie May.

983
01:02:06,400 --> 01:02:09,800
Speaker 6: Solidarity Network came through for me because that kept us fed.

984
01:02:09,960 --> 01:02:12,640
Speaker 7: That kept us like we were able to have gas

985
01:02:13,320 --> 01:02:15,520
Speaker 7: for that for the next like to get us to

986
01:02:15,560 --> 01:02:18,720
Speaker 7: the next payday. Essentially, this this whole.

987
01:02:18,480 --> 01:02:22,960
Speaker 6: Thing would set me back like a full pay period,

988
01:02:23,440 --> 01:02:27,200
Speaker 6: Like I wouldn't get the last check cashed until we

989
01:02:27,240 --> 01:02:29,840
Speaker 6: got to the next pay period on Friday, because we

990
01:02:29,840 --> 01:02:31,160
Speaker 6: get paid every two weeks.

991
01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:35,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is something we've talked about on this

992
01:02:35,840 --> 01:02:39,520
Speaker 1: show a lot, is that, like you know what I mean.

993
01:02:39,560 --> 01:02:42,000
Speaker 1: I think most people listening to this show understand this

994
01:02:42,080 --> 01:02:45,680
Speaker 1: on an intuitive level. But it's like if your paycheck

995
01:02:45,800 --> 01:02:51,760
Speaker 1: fucking bounces, that's really fucking bad, Like yeah, holy shit,

996
01:02:51,840 --> 01:02:53,720
Speaker 1: And it's like, yeah, like obviously that's going to cause

997
01:02:53,760 --> 01:03:00,200
Speaker 1: like unbelievable like financial distress and it fucking sucks. I'm

998
01:03:00,240 --> 01:03:02,360
Speaker 1: really sorry you've been having a deal with that on

999
01:03:02,480 --> 01:03:06,560
Speaker 1: top of fucking everything else, because that's just, yeah, that

1000
01:03:06,560 --> 01:03:09,200
Speaker 1: that's something that can just like completely fuck your entire life.

1001
01:03:09,800 --> 01:03:13,400
Speaker 1: That's through no fault of your own. Yeah, it's literally

1002
01:03:13,480 --> 01:03:14,880
Speaker 1: your boss is fucking up.

1003
01:03:16,080 --> 01:03:17,680
Speaker 7: Yep. God.

1004
01:03:17,960 --> 01:03:19,800
Speaker 6: I want to note that still to this day, I

1005
01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:22,000
Speaker 6: do not have access to my bank account as far

1006
01:03:22,040 --> 01:03:25,680
Speaker 6: as I know, Jesus Christ, the last week has been

1007
01:03:25,680 --> 01:03:28,040
Speaker 6: really crazy and like I haven't been able to get

1008
01:03:28,040 --> 01:03:31,560
Speaker 6: out to like or anything to get something new set up.

1009
01:03:32,360 --> 01:03:35,200
Speaker 1: So that's just in the in the background, Like you're

1010
01:03:35,240 --> 01:03:37,440
Speaker 1: not even getting paid because the checks are boundary.

1011
01:03:37,560 --> 01:03:40,920
Speaker 7: Yes, And Jackie May was understandably distressed over this and

1012
01:03:41,040 --> 01:03:44,160
Speaker 7: expressed that frustration, and that was the cause of a

1013
01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:49,840
Speaker 7: write up that was used to justify termination. Right is

1014
01:03:49,880 --> 01:03:53,120
Speaker 7: that do I have that? Right, Jackie May? That is correct?

1015
01:03:53,200 --> 01:03:56,640
Speaker 6: That is the first light up, Christ, that right up

1016
01:03:57,160 --> 01:04:01,560
Speaker 6: from May fourth, righte up is the May fourth.

1017
01:04:02,160 --> 01:04:04,520
Speaker 1: I have heard of a lot of bullshit right ups

1018
01:04:04,520 --> 01:04:07,600
Speaker 1: in my time doing this job. Right up for being

1019
01:04:07,680 --> 01:04:10,600
Speaker 1: rude to management because you were talking to them about

1020
01:04:10,600 --> 01:04:12,640
Speaker 1: the fact that your paycheck bounced.

1021
01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:16,120
Speaker 7: That is the worst right up I have ever heard that.

1022
01:04:16,240 --> 01:04:19,000
Speaker 7: It's like that, I like even even including.

1023
01:04:18,600 --> 01:04:20,960
Speaker 1: Ones were like because obviously like people will just like

1024
01:04:21,040 --> 01:04:22,840
Speaker 1: make up shit to do a write up for but

1025
01:04:22,960 --> 01:04:26,040
Speaker 1: like that's like a special level of like, oh no,

1026
01:04:26,400 --> 01:04:30,360
Speaker 1: this did kind of happen, but it's because they fucked up.

1027
01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:38,160
Speaker 7: And bounced your paycheck. Jesus Christ. So, Jackie May, I

1028
01:04:38,240 --> 01:04:43,440
Speaker 7: believe you were recounting the write ups that Lela presented

1029
01:04:43,480 --> 01:04:46,400
Speaker 7: to you wrote that I'm I'm just losing my mind.

1030
01:04:46,600 --> 01:04:47,760
Speaker 7: That's so awful.

1031
01:04:50,040 --> 01:04:52,680
Speaker 6: So the second one is because they did a room inspection.

1032
01:04:52,880 --> 01:04:53,640
Speaker 1: It's really weird.

1033
01:04:53,680 --> 01:04:57,080
Speaker 6: They like doing room inspections when they want to remove somebody. Yeah,

1034
01:04:57,120 --> 01:04:59,320
Speaker 6: so there was a room inspection and they were like,

1035
01:04:59,360 --> 01:05:03,000
Speaker 6: your room's not okay, that's your statement.

1036
01:05:04,040 --> 01:05:05,000
Speaker 7: The third write up.

1037
01:05:05,960 --> 01:05:09,160
Speaker 6: Do you remember when I had a family emergency that

1038
01:05:09,240 --> 01:05:13,880
Speaker 6: they caused and I left sight because they caused a

1039
01:05:13,960 --> 01:05:15,200
Speaker 6: family emergency.

1040
01:05:15,760 --> 01:05:17,800
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1041
01:05:17,840 --> 01:05:21,760
Speaker 6: My third and final write up was because I left

1042
01:05:22,160 --> 01:05:25,720
Speaker 6: early and they tried to say, well, Jackie, you didn't

1043
01:05:25,840 --> 01:05:29,160
Speaker 6: ask for our permission. Excuse me, Jackie May, you didn't

1044
01:05:29,240 --> 01:05:32,800
Speaker 6: ask for our permission to leave for the day. You

1045
01:05:33,000 --> 01:05:37,400
Speaker 6: just told me it was happening. And that was my

1046
01:05:37,520 --> 01:05:38,200
Speaker 6: full write up.

1047
01:05:38,640 --> 01:05:41,800
Speaker 7: I would like to add to this that I myself

1048
01:05:42,600 --> 01:05:46,920
Speaker 7: have multiple documented instances of having to leave work because

1049
01:05:47,000 --> 01:05:51,320
Speaker 7: of a health or mental health emergent situation. And there

1050
01:05:51,400 --> 01:05:55,000
Speaker 7: has never been a situation where I said, may I leave?

1051
01:05:55,640 --> 01:05:59,240
Speaker 7: It has always been I need to leave. And I

1052
01:05:59,280 --> 01:06:03,800
Speaker 7: have note noted and observed this with other employees as well.

1053
01:06:03,880 --> 01:06:07,240
Speaker 7: None of these incidents has ever culminated any write up

1054
01:06:07,360 --> 01:06:09,920
Speaker 7: or any sort of disciplinary action, So this is clearly

1055
01:06:10,560 --> 01:06:15,000
Speaker 7: inconsistent with ample precedent for the application of disciplinary standards.

1056
01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:19,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're just just trying to find reasons to get

1057
01:06:19,400 --> 01:06:22,000
Speaker 1: three write offs, which is also like just a sign

1058
01:06:22,240 --> 01:06:27,960
Speaker 1: of how well y'all are like doing your jobs that like,

1059
01:06:28,360 --> 01:06:33,200
Speaker 1: because like normally employers have like random code infractions that

1060
01:06:33,240 --> 01:06:35,960
Speaker 1: are always just sort of laying around that they can

1061
01:06:36,040 --> 01:06:37,360
Speaker 1: pick up and be like hey, but it's like they

1062
01:06:37,400 --> 01:06:40,720
Speaker 1: couldn't even like find anything. They had to just like

1063
01:06:41,760 --> 01:06:46,680
Speaker 1: basically fabricate complete just like absolute nonsense.

1064
01:06:47,680 --> 01:06:52,000
Speaker 7: Yes, like Jesus Christ, am I recalling correctly, Jackie May

1065
01:06:52,080 --> 01:06:57,800
Speaker 7: that these are the first instances of any documented disciplineplinary

1066
01:06:57,800 --> 01:07:02,040
Speaker 7: action against you in your tenure at really electrolis. Yeah,

1067
01:07:02,080 --> 01:07:02,840
Speaker 7: I'm a good girl.

1068
01:07:02,880 --> 01:07:06,760
Speaker 6: I follow the rules and I do so very very well.

1069
01:07:07,200 --> 01:07:10,400
Speaker 7: So and then suddenly it's like, oh, here's here's three

1070
01:07:10,720 --> 01:07:11,200
Speaker 7: ride ups.

1071
01:07:11,920 --> 01:07:16,600
Speaker 10: Like again, like the the post.

1072
01:07:16,360 --> 01:07:22,400
Speaker 1: Facto right up for the Hi, I am upset that

1073
01:07:22,440 --> 01:07:25,960
Speaker 1: my paycheck bounce converce Jesus.

1074
01:07:26,160 --> 01:07:29,600
Speaker 7: Yeah. And so I will note that even that very

1075
01:07:29,600 --> 01:07:32,960
Speaker 7: first right up did take place after we were engaged

1076
01:07:33,000 --> 01:07:38,640
Speaker 7: in organizing activity, after management had demonstrated suspicion. Yeah, and

1077
01:07:39,240 --> 01:07:42,120
Speaker 7: all of these right ups were delivered within a few

1078
01:07:42,120 --> 01:07:47,040
Speaker 7: hours of the delivery of our petition for voluntary recognition, uh.

1079
01:07:47,000 --> 01:07:51,800
Speaker 1: Huh, which I will say looks not even just suspiciously

1080
01:07:51,920 --> 01:07:55,160
Speaker 1: like it looks like they have just like a giant

1081
01:07:55,200 --> 01:07:59,960
Speaker 1: polar bear sitting there, and the polar bear is union retaliation,

1082
01:08:00,320 --> 01:08:02,800
Speaker 1: and they've like painted a little clown face on it

1083
01:08:02,840 --> 01:08:05,440
Speaker 1: and gone, this is a clown nut retaliation for forming

1084
01:08:05,480 --> 01:08:08,000
Speaker 1: a union. Like no, that that is a polar bear,

1085
01:08:08,040 --> 01:08:22,720
Speaker 1: Like what are we doing here? Oh god, So what

1086
01:08:22,840 --> 01:08:24,000
Speaker 1: happened next, Jackie may.

1087
01:08:24,840 --> 01:08:27,760
Speaker 7: Oh gosh, what happened next? Well?

1088
01:08:28,360 --> 01:08:30,120
Speaker 6: Uh, you know, I had to clean out my office,

1089
01:08:30,160 --> 01:08:32,040
Speaker 6: so I grabbed the stuff that was important to me.

1090
01:08:32,320 --> 01:08:37,160
Speaker 6: I took my time. I wasn't angry. I didn't I

1091
01:08:37,200 --> 01:08:39,560
Speaker 6: really didn't speak throughout much of it, because at that

1092
01:08:39,680 --> 01:08:43,000
Speaker 6: point the best thing I could do is just take

1093
01:08:43,040 --> 01:08:48,080
Speaker 6: my recording not say anything. And as soon as I

1094
01:08:48,240 --> 01:08:54,160
Speaker 6: was out of the office, I sent a message to

1095
01:08:54,600 --> 01:08:58,400
Speaker 6: the union members that said, hey, I was just fired.

1096
01:08:58,439 --> 01:09:00,880
Speaker 6: They walked me out of the building. If we're going

1097
01:09:00,960 --> 01:09:03,040
Speaker 6: to do something about this, we need to do something

1098
01:09:03,080 --> 01:09:03,840
Speaker 6: about this now.

1099
01:09:04,720 --> 01:09:06,280
Speaker 7: And that was it. Two fifty one.

1100
01:09:07,200 --> 01:09:15,519
Speaker 6: By four oh one pm Wednesday afternoon, we had the

1101
01:09:15,560 --> 01:09:19,920
Speaker 6: rest of the union organize a organized in stage a

1102
01:09:20,040 --> 01:09:21,280
Speaker 6: walkout in solidarity.

1103
01:09:21,720 --> 01:09:25,439
Speaker 7: That's really quick. I'm gonna let Deja take over because

1104
01:09:25,479 --> 01:09:30,160
Speaker 7: I was outside. Yeah. So at the point that we

1105
01:09:30,280 --> 01:09:33,680
Speaker 7: found out Jackie May had been terminated, we called an

1106
01:09:33,680 --> 01:09:38,320
Speaker 7: emergency vote in our secure messaging platform that we used

1107
01:09:38,360 --> 01:09:42,920
Speaker 7: to coordinate things, and we voted in favor of doing

1108
01:09:42,960 --> 01:09:48,880
Speaker 7: a walkout once we had each finished with our obligations

1109
01:09:48,920 --> 01:09:52,679
Speaker 7: to patients. In fact, I actually had an appointment scheduled

1110
01:09:52,720 --> 01:09:55,760
Speaker 7: from three fifteen to three forty five that at that

1111
01:09:55,920 --> 01:09:58,920
Speaker 7: point I elected to continue that appointment, and I did so.

1112
01:09:59,000 --> 01:10:03,280
Speaker 7: I provided treatment as usual, cleanup as usual, chart noting

1113
01:10:03,320 --> 01:10:06,680
Speaker 7: as usual. Not a single person who engaged in this

1114
01:10:06,800 --> 01:10:11,680
Speaker 7: walkout did so without completing their scheduled treatment in that

1115
01:10:11,800 --> 01:10:17,120
Speaker 7: time slot. Once that appointment was finished and everything was

1116
01:10:17,240 --> 01:10:20,759
Speaker 7: in compliance within my room and the rooms of those

1117
01:10:20,800 --> 01:10:24,040
Speaker 7: who were not stuck in appointments, because we did have

1118
01:10:24,080 --> 01:10:27,240
Speaker 7: a couple of union members who were in longer appointments

1119
01:10:27,920 --> 01:10:31,400
Speaker 7: who were not able to join the walkout. Immediately, those

1120
01:10:31,439 --> 01:10:35,200
Speaker 7: of us who were free did walk out, And when

1121
01:10:35,280 --> 01:10:38,679
Speaker 7: we did this, we spoke directly to Lea La Favor,

1122
01:10:38,720 --> 01:10:41,120
Speaker 7: who was sitting at the reception desk, and said that

1123
01:10:41,200 --> 01:10:44,880
Speaker 7: we are staging a formal walkout in protest of the

1124
01:10:44,920 --> 01:10:50,720
Speaker 7: wrongful termination of Jackie May, and this is not a resignation,

1125
01:10:50,920 --> 01:10:54,400
Speaker 7: this is a legally protected action under the National Labor

1126
01:10:54,439 --> 01:10:58,760
Speaker 7: Relations Act. Leah then said that anyone who walked out

1127
01:10:58,760 --> 01:11:02,479
Speaker 7: that door must immediately surrender their keys and was no

1128
01:11:02,520 --> 01:11:05,040
Speaker 7: longer welcome on the premises.

1129
01:11:05,000 --> 01:11:17,320
Speaker 14: Now, Jesus Christ in terms of like open retaliation for

1130
01:11:17,520 --> 01:11:19,600
Speaker 14: union activity, like, oh boy.

1131
01:11:19,520 --> 01:11:24,200
Speaker 7: Yeah, we were, oh honestly, Mia, We were so gobsmacked

1132
01:11:24,479 --> 01:11:29,519
Speaker 7: at the just absurdity that she would take such a

1133
01:11:29,720 --> 01:11:33,439
Speaker 7: blatant action of retaliation that our response was, are you

1134
01:11:33,600 --> 01:11:38,360
Speaker 7: sure you want to do that? And the answer was yes.

1135
01:11:39,880 --> 01:11:45,680
Speaker 7: So initially we did not return our keys because we

1136
01:11:45,720 --> 01:11:48,200
Speaker 7: wanted to confer with somebody from the IWW. So we

1137
01:11:48,200 --> 01:11:52,439
Speaker 7: spoke with an IWW representative who advised us that their

1138
01:11:52,479 --> 01:11:54,880
Speaker 7: demand for the return of the keys was a lawful

1139
01:11:54,880 --> 01:11:57,519
Speaker 7: demand for the return of company property, and that we

1140
01:11:57,560 --> 01:12:01,120
Speaker 7: should comply with that. So we did. We gathered up

1141
01:12:01,120 --> 01:12:04,680
Speaker 7: our keys, we sent a representative back in to return them,

1142
01:12:05,040 --> 01:12:09,080
Speaker 7: and at that point we were officially on strike. We

1143
01:12:09,280 --> 01:12:12,759
Speaker 7: reunited with Jackie May in the parking lot. We started

1144
01:12:12,800 --> 01:12:15,560
Speaker 7: strategizing about how we were going to do this. IWW

1145
01:12:16,120 --> 01:12:20,439
Speaker 7: sent some folks our way to provide support. I took

1146
01:12:20,479 --> 01:12:22,320
Speaker 7: off to pick up some art supplies so that we

1147
01:12:22,320 --> 01:12:25,679
Speaker 7: could make signs, and just general like things like water

1148
01:12:25,800 --> 01:12:30,599
Speaker 7: and snacks. Our other union members who were currently inside

1149
01:12:30,640 --> 01:12:35,840
Speaker 7: treating patients, finished their appointments as scheduled and emerged when

1150
01:12:35,840 --> 01:12:40,120
Speaker 7: they were no longer responsible for any patient care also

1151
01:12:40,200 --> 01:12:43,280
Speaker 7: turned in their keys. At that point, we did have

1152
01:12:43,320 --> 01:12:47,360
Speaker 7: an IWW representative on scene who accompanied those employees back

1153
01:12:47,360 --> 01:12:51,559
Speaker 7: inside to return the keys and to confirm to Lela

1154
01:12:51,640 --> 01:12:55,200
Speaker 7: Favor directly that this is not a resignation, It cannot

1155
01:12:55,200 --> 01:12:57,960
Speaker 7: be construed as a resignation, that this is a protected

1156
01:12:58,120 --> 01:13:02,640
Speaker 7: organizing action, and that all we were doing was complying

1157
01:13:02,720 --> 01:13:05,360
Speaker 7: with a lawful demand for the return of company property.

1158
01:13:05,840 --> 01:13:09,639
Speaker 7: We have plenty of witnesses to this, regardless of any

1159
01:13:09,680 --> 01:13:13,040
Speaker 7: statement that they may choose to make do the contrary,

1160
01:13:13,280 --> 01:13:14,840
Speaker 7: which also I just want to know.

1161
01:13:14,880 --> 01:13:18,800
Speaker 1: This is the first time I've ever gotten timestamps lockouts

1162
01:13:18,840 --> 01:13:21,280
Speaker 1: of the best document in one of peace I've ever seen.

1163
01:13:23,200 --> 01:13:26,880
Speaker 7: Y'all are very organized. Oh yeah, Oh my god, No, no,

1164
01:13:26,920 --> 01:13:31,519
Speaker 7: we're not. We're not playing around. Yeah. So at that point, Jackie,

1165
01:13:31,600 --> 01:13:33,120
Speaker 7: may I think you can take it from here?

1166
01:13:34,040 --> 01:13:37,280
Speaker 6: Yeah, so real quick, I got to go back. We

1167
01:13:37,360 --> 01:13:41,920
Speaker 6: got I forgot a very important detail about Monday after

1168
01:13:42,439 --> 01:13:47,760
Speaker 6: after my coworker, union member and housemate was fired. In

1169
01:13:47,840 --> 01:13:51,960
Speaker 6: talking to Zeric Lee, I looked him in the eyes

1170
01:13:52,200 --> 01:13:55,080
Speaker 6: and I told him, don't do this. I said, please

1171
01:13:55,120 --> 01:13:57,760
Speaker 6: don't do this. Please don't call my bluff on this.

1172
01:13:58,439 --> 01:14:01,719
Speaker 6: Please don't make me do this. And we're here now.

1173
01:14:02,920 --> 01:14:06,519
Speaker 6: I jumping back to Wednesday, I had to go off site.

1174
01:14:07,040 --> 01:14:12,360
Speaker 6: I was meeting with some IWW members who were We

1175
01:14:12,360 --> 01:14:16,920
Speaker 6: were mainly discussing what we were going to do next

1176
01:14:17,160 --> 01:14:21,600
Speaker 6: in or what options we had in response to a

1177
01:14:21,680 --> 01:14:25,920
Speaker 6: mass firing. We spent a couple hours at that. I

1178
01:14:25,960 --> 01:14:29,040
Speaker 6: came away understanding a whole bunch more as to what

1179
01:14:29,040 --> 01:14:34,280
Speaker 6: we're doing. I returned to the shop, and I think

1180
01:14:34,760 --> 01:14:39,800
Speaker 6: I don't remember it very well because I was all

1181
01:14:39,840 --> 01:14:42,679
Speaker 6: emotion and adrenaline at that point in time.

1182
01:14:43,960 --> 01:14:47,599
Speaker 7: What I will say is that when on.

1183
01:14:47,479 --> 01:14:50,679
Speaker 6: A Lantry and Leola Favor were getting in their cars

1184
01:14:50,760 --> 01:14:54,640
Speaker 6: to leave site, I made sure that they heard me,

1185
01:14:55,320 --> 01:14:58,599
Speaker 6: that the block heard me, that a good chunk of

1186
01:14:58,640 --> 01:15:00,960
Speaker 6: downtown Washington could hear.

1187
01:15:02,800 --> 01:15:04,799
Speaker 7: My anger and my passion.

1188
01:15:05,120 --> 01:15:06,840
Speaker 6: If I don't know if you can tell in my

1189
01:15:06,960 --> 01:15:10,040
Speaker 6: voice right now, but I kind of went a little

1190
01:15:10,040 --> 01:15:10,840
Speaker 6: too hard.

1191
01:15:10,600 --> 01:15:14,880
Speaker 7: On it, and it's why I sound like I do now. Well,

1192
01:15:14,960 --> 01:15:17,920
Speaker 7: that's scratchy. It happens. I'm honestly surprised I can speak

1193
01:15:17,960 --> 01:15:22,599
Speaker 7: as well because there's been lots of chanting and singing

1194
01:15:22,760 --> 01:15:25,960
Speaker 7: and yelling. And yeah, because we have been on the

1195
01:15:26,000 --> 01:15:28,720
Speaker 7: picket line pretty much since then, every single day that

1196
01:15:28,760 --> 01:15:30,879
Speaker 7: the business is open. That is correct.

1197
01:15:31,400 --> 01:15:33,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, which I want to roll back for a second

1198
01:15:33,520 --> 01:15:36,439
Speaker 1: and just point out that like going from yeah, we

1199
01:15:36,479 --> 01:15:40,320
Speaker 1: all signed our union petitions and then we delivered it

1200
01:15:40,360 --> 01:15:42,720
Speaker 1: the next day, and then that same day everyone is

1201
01:15:42,760 --> 01:15:45,240
Speaker 1: on strike is astonishing.

1202
01:15:46,120 --> 01:15:46,720
Speaker 7: The pace of.

1203
01:15:46,680 --> 01:15:50,200
Speaker 1: It is absolutely incredible. And then also just it says

1204
01:15:50,240 --> 01:15:54,160
Speaker 1: a lot about the solidarity that you all have and

1205
01:15:55,160 --> 01:15:59,200
Speaker 1: all of your like you all's character that a yeah,

1206
01:15:59,240 --> 01:16:01,960
Speaker 1: there's just everyone does a walkout, goes on strike and

1207
01:16:02,000 --> 01:16:06,800
Speaker 1: then be Also, I think it speaks to like who

1208
01:16:06,880 --> 01:16:09,920
Speaker 1: you're fighting for here, both each other and also the

1209
01:16:09,960 --> 01:16:14,760
Speaker 1: fact that like all of you were so careful to

1210
01:16:14,800 --> 01:16:19,120
Speaker 1: make sure that your patients got their care is. Yeah,

1211
01:16:19,200 --> 01:16:22,559
Speaker 1: it is something that I think speaks It says a

1212
01:16:22,560 --> 01:16:25,120
Speaker 1: lot about the kind of people all of you are,

1213
01:16:25,160 --> 01:16:26,639
Speaker 1: and it says a lot about the kind of people

1214
01:16:26,680 --> 01:16:30,439
Speaker 1: that management is, that this is what they're doing to

1215
01:16:30,960 --> 01:16:36,360
Speaker 1: people who who both fight for each other and also

1216
01:16:36,520 --> 01:16:41,599
Speaker 1: care deeply about the patients and the people that they're

1217
01:16:41,600 --> 01:16:42,280
Speaker 1: taking care of.

1218
01:16:43,160 --> 01:16:48,160
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, I really do. I know Jackie May and

1219
01:16:48,240 --> 01:16:50,200
Speaker 7: I are the ones who are kind of operating as

1220
01:16:50,240 --> 01:16:55,040
Speaker 7: the mouthpiece, but I absolutely need to express the deepest,

1221
01:16:55,800 --> 01:16:58,839
Speaker 7: most sincere appreciation for all of the other union members

1222
01:16:59,080 --> 01:17:02,679
Speaker 7: because you know, not everybody involved in this has been

1223
01:17:02,880 --> 01:17:06,960
Speaker 7: as just like gung ho angry, like screw up, let's

1224
01:17:07,040 --> 01:17:09,679
Speaker 7: do this like this has been really difficult and nerve

1225
01:17:09,800 --> 01:17:11,400
Speaker 7: racking for a lot of them, but you know what,

1226
01:17:12,000 --> 01:17:16,280
Speaker 7: they have followed through and persevered, and not a single

1227
01:17:16,320 --> 01:17:21,600
Speaker 7: person who started this with us has switched sides or

1228
01:17:21,760 --> 01:17:26,040
Speaker 7: dropped out. Everybody has been so brave and so committed

1229
01:17:26,120 --> 01:17:30,439
Speaker 7: and showing up so fiercely, And yeah, we are also

1230
01:17:31,520 --> 01:17:35,880
Speaker 7: like our patients are still the most important thing. Like, yes,

1231
01:17:35,920 --> 01:17:39,040
Speaker 7: we've been picketing, but we have not been turning anybody

1232
01:17:39,200 --> 01:17:42,360
Speaker 7: away from crossing the picket line. We every patient that

1233
01:17:42,479 --> 01:17:44,920
Speaker 7: shows up to be treated by one of the very

1234
01:17:44,920 --> 01:17:48,439
Speaker 7: few people who are still on site providing care at

1235
01:17:48,479 --> 01:17:52,920
Speaker 7: really Lutchles's crosses the line with our complete blessing. And

1236
01:17:53,000 --> 01:17:57,920
Speaker 7: we are absolutely vocal and unequivocal about that that we

1237
01:17:58,080 --> 01:18:01,200
Speaker 7: are not trying to deny anybody care and in fact,

1238
01:18:01,800 --> 01:18:06,120
Speaker 7: like we are reaching out to other electrology providers out

1239
01:18:06,160 --> 01:18:09,479
Speaker 7: there to you know, try to offer some options to

1240
01:18:09,560 --> 01:18:12,439
Speaker 7: our patients who have chosen to forego their care out

1241
01:18:12,479 --> 01:18:16,000
Speaker 7: of solidarity. You know, we really we want to get

1242
01:18:16,040 --> 01:18:19,080
Speaker 7: back to work and go back to giving care or

1243
01:18:19,160 --> 01:18:25,800
Speaker 7: to our people, but management has made that impossible. Yeah.

1244
01:18:26,000 --> 01:18:28,639
Speaker 1: I think one of the things that comes through really

1245
01:18:28,680 --> 01:18:33,960
Speaker 1: clearly here is like, yeah, how willing management is to

1246
01:18:34,000 --> 01:18:37,599
Speaker 1: just hurt people, and how dedicated all of you are

1247
01:18:37,680 --> 01:18:41,200
Speaker 1: to making sure that people you're caring.

1248
01:18:40,920 --> 01:18:42,920
Speaker 7: For get their care. And also.

1249
01:18:44,080 --> 01:18:47,080
Speaker 1: The just astonishing amount of bravery that it takes to

1250
01:18:47,200 --> 01:18:51,320
Speaker 1: not only go on strike and continue to be on strike,

1251
01:18:52,080 --> 01:18:54,880
Speaker 1: but also to do that in a situation where getting

1252
01:18:54,960 --> 01:18:58,320
Speaker 1: fired potentially means that you have to fight off paying

1253
01:18:58,360 --> 01:19:01,280
Speaker 1: the company that was employing you. Striking against twenty one

1254
01:19:01,320 --> 01:19:06,080
Speaker 1: thousand dollars. That is some of the worst conditions imaginable,

1255
01:19:06,960 --> 01:19:10,720
Speaker 1: and all of you did it anyways, and it's one

1256
01:19:10,720 --> 01:19:12,479
Speaker 1: of the most incredible things I've ever seen.

1257
01:19:12,960 --> 01:19:19,200
Speaker 7: Thank you. It's almost pride. It's twenty twenty six. We're

1258
01:19:19,680 --> 01:19:20,920
Speaker 7: making history here.

1259
01:19:21,040 --> 01:19:25,720
Speaker 6: This union is for trans people, buy, trans people to

1260
01:19:25,840 --> 01:19:30,320
Speaker 6: provide care, to buy and large other trends and queer people.

1261
01:19:31,200 --> 01:19:34,680
Speaker 6: And weirdly, I have to say thank you to our

1262
01:19:34,720 --> 01:19:38,120
Speaker 6: two bosses because if they hadn't have made the decisions

1263
01:19:38,439 --> 01:19:40,960
Speaker 6: that they made, things could have been so different. It

1264
01:19:41,000 --> 01:19:43,720
Speaker 6: didn't have to be this way, is what I have

1265
01:19:43,760 --> 01:19:45,439
Speaker 6: to say. It didn't have to be this way. But

1266
01:19:45,680 --> 01:19:49,000
Speaker 6: they chose this. They chose this, and we have chosen

1267
01:19:49,040 --> 01:19:53,280
Speaker 6: it every time, every opportunity to choose each other and

1268
01:19:53,320 --> 01:19:56,240
Speaker 6: to choose our community and go no, you're not going

1269
01:19:56,320 --> 01:19:59,240
Speaker 6: to bully one of us. We're not allowing us anymore.

1270
01:19:59,680 --> 01:20:00,960
Speaker 6: We are sticking together.

1271
01:20:02,040 --> 01:20:05,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's it's been really incredible seeing the way

1272
01:20:05,200 --> 01:20:08,600
Speaker 1: that all of you have have taken this opportunity and

1273
01:20:08,640 --> 01:20:10,920
Speaker 1: taken all of these risks to fight for each other.

1274
01:20:11,920 --> 01:20:14,360
Speaker 1: There's a quote that I heard about you from managements

1275
01:20:14,360 --> 01:20:16,920
Speaker 1: about why they hired a bunch of trans people that

1276
01:20:17,439 --> 01:20:19,120
Speaker 1: I was wondering if you could tell the audience what

1277
01:20:19,320 --> 01:20:22,160
Speaker 1: that quote is, because Jesus Christ.

1278
01:20:22,320 --> 01:20:26,120
Speaker 7: It's a supermajority of transition, which is super rarely almost

1279
01:20:26,439 --> 01:20:28,440
Speaker 7: almost the entire workforce.

1280
01:20:28,520 --> 01:20:29,040
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1281
01:20:29,360 --> 01:20:36,120
Speaker 6: Yes, so this quote comes from president on a lantry

1282
01:20:37,280 --> 01:20:43,439
Speaker 6: from the fourth of July company barbecue held at their

1283
01:20:43,560 --> 01:20:49,920
Speaker 6: house in twenty twenty five. Oh no, with this shit,

1284
01:20:50,000 --> 01:20:55,160
Speaker 6: eat grin. She says, Yeah, if you pay a trans

1285
01:20:55,240 --> 01:20:58,960
Speaker 6: woman thirty dollars an hour and you give her health

1286
01:20:58,960 --> 01:21:03,320
Speaker 6: insurance in a little bit of respect, she will march

1287
01:21:03,400 --> 01:21:04,840
Speaker 6: through a brick wall for you.

1288
01:21:05,680 --> 01:21:07,599
Speaker 1: Jesus Christ.

1289
01:21:08,120 --> 01:21:10,280
Speaker 7: Like, there's two immediate obvious angles.

1290
01:21:10,560 --> 01:21:13,320
Speaker 1: One it's like, oh, so you like knew what you like,

1291
01:21:13,400 --> 01:21:15,160
Speaker 1: you knew what you were doing here, right, You were

1292
01:21:15,160 --> 01:21:18,439
Speaker 1: deliberately hiring You were deliberately hiring trans people because you thought,

1293
01:21:18,479 --> 01:21:20,200
Speaker 1: because you thought they were they would be easier to

1294
01:21:20,240 --> 01:21:23,360
Speaker 1: exploit and that's hideous.

1295
01:21:23,760 --> 01:21:25,600
Speaker 7: Those are your words. Yeah, I like that.

1296
01:21:25,720 --> 01:21:29,080
Speaker 1: That's that's yeah, this is this is my analysis of

1297
01:21:29,120 --> 01:21:33,599
Speaker 1: this is like, that's Jesus Christ. And then b also,

1298
01:21:34,000 --> 01:21:37,240
Speaker 1: this is this is really some like your chickens are

1299
01:21:37,240 --> 01:21:40,519
Speaker 1: coming home to roost. Like you you you have sown

1300
01:21:40,600 --> 01:21:43,360
Speaker 1: the wind and you are now reaping the whirlwind. Because

1301
01:21:43,760 --> 01:21:47,280
Speaker 1: it is true that trans people get treated like absolute shit,

1302
01:21:47,400 --> 01:21:50,240
Speaker 1: and it's very nice to get a job where you're

1303
01:21:50,280 --> 01:21:51,439
Speaker 1: not being treated like shit.

1304
01:21:52,200 --> 01:21:55,160
Speaker 7: But it's also true that if you decide.

1305
01:21:54,880 --> 01:21:58,160
Speaker 1: To fuck over a bunch of trans women, like, we

1306
01:21:58,200 --> 01:22:01,479
Speaker 1: will fight for each other, and trans people and preeople

1307
01:22:01,520 --> 01:22:04,000
Speaker 1: will fight for each other. And I think that's one

1308
01:22:04,040 --> 01:22:06,599
Speaker 1: of the sort of beautiful things about you know, as

1309
01:22:06,680 --> 01:22:09,519
Speaker 1: much as all of this absolutely fucking sucks, but like

1310
01:22:09,560 --> 01:22:11,320
Speaker 1: the fact that you were able to pull this many

1311
01:22:11,360 --> 01:22:13,880
Speaker 1: people off the line immediately and get a strike going,

1312
01:22:13,920 --> 01:22:16,000
Speaker 1: you know, that has like almost all of the clinicians

1313
01:22:16,000 --> 01:22:20,560
Speaker 1: are on strike. It's this real refutation of what management

1314
01:22:20,960 --> 01:22:26,280
Speaker 1: believed about trans people, which is like, no, actually, you

1315
01:22:26,360 --> 01:22:28,720
Speaker 1: can't just fucking sit there and exploit us, because we

1316
01:22:28,720 --> 01:22:29,800
Speaker 1: will organize and fight.

1317
01:22:30,360 --> 01:22:33,519
Speaker 7: Yeah, we'll fight for each other. We will, And I

1318
01:22:33,600 --> 01:22:37,160
Speaker 7: did want to stress to like the diversity of our workforce,

1319
01:22:37,280 --> 01:22:40,200
Speaker 7: like we are not all trans women. We become like

1320
01:22:40,240 --> 01:22:44,120
Speaker 7: a variety of backgrounds, a variety of ages, you know,

1321
01:22:44,320 --> 01:22:47,840
Speaker 7: Like I don't know how old the oldest among us is,

1322
01:22:47,880 --> 01:22:50,639
Speaker 7: but I know I'm forty three, and we have somebody

1323
01:22:50,640 --> 01:22:53,680
Speaker 7: as young as eighteen on the workforce.

1324
01:22:53,280 --> 01:22:56,760
Speaker 1: And they're all in the picky line together. It's beautiful.

1325
01:22:57,360 --> 01:23:00,800
Speaker 1: It's it's incredible. What is what is the state of

1326
01:23:00,840 --> 01:23:04,280
Speaker 1: things sort of right now? And what are you fighting

1327
01:23:04,280 --> 01:23:07,160
Speaker 1: for in the strike? And I guess how can people help?

1328
01:23:08,080 --> 01:23:12,040
Speaker 7: Big questions? Well, we are officially endorsed by the IWW.

1329
01:23:12,080 --> 01:23:16,920
Speaker 7: We are now IWW Industrial Union six'. Ten the picket is.

1330
01:23:17,000 --> 01:23:20,920
Speaker 7: Ongoing our fellow union members are on the picket line

1331
01:23:21,000 --> 01:23:24,519
Speaker 7: right now as we are recording. This at this, point

1332
01:23:24,600 --> 01:23:27,960
Speaker 7: management has elected not to bargain with. Us they have

1333
01:23:28,240 --> 01:23:31,720
Speaker 7: sent a copy and paste letter to all of us

1334
01:23:31,800 --> 01:23:36,920
Speaker 7: who were present for the walkout On may, twentieth basically

1335
01:23:37,600 --> 01:23:43,840
Speaker 7: requesting a response and making some demonstrably materially false allegations

1336
01:23:43,920 --> 01:23:49,240
Speaker 7: about the nature of the walkout and the conversations that

1337
01:23:49,280 --> 01:23:53,639
Speaker 7: we're had with. Management so we have a letter from

1338
01:23:53,680 --> 01:23:55,920
Speaker 7: the union that we are going to send from the

1339
01:23:55,960 --> 01:23:59,560
Speaker 7: union email address and will be endorsed by all the individual.

1340
01:23:59,600 --> 01:24:03,160
Speaker 7: Members but other than, that that's the only contact we've

1341
01:24:03,240 --> 01:24:06,840
Speaker 7: hat with. Management so they do not seem interested in

1342
01:24:07,040 --> 01:24:10,280
Speaker 7: bargaining or in resolving the. Strike they have not asked for.

1343
01:24:10,400 --> 01:24:12,960
Speaker 7: Demands our demands are fairly.

1344
01:24:13,000 --> 01:24:17,479
Speaker 1: Simple having management go no contact drud to strike is not,

1345
01:24:17,640 --> 01:24:21,720
Speaker 1: normal like completely literally no context for one. Email that's

1346
01:24:21,760 --> 01:24:25,920
Speaker 1: like weird by management drud toh strike, Standards like usually

1347
01:24:26,000 --> 01:24:30,240
Speaker 1: they're at least, communicating like sometimes they do, this but like.

1348
01:24:30,400 --> 01:24:32,240
Speaker 7: That's fucked by management.

1349
01:24:32,320 --> 01:24:36,160
Speaker 6: Standards SO i can explain why that. Is do you

1350
01:24:36,200 --> 01:24:39,760
Speaker 6: remember earlier when djus said that on a lantry had

1351
01:24:39,800 --> 01:24:41,640
Speaker 6: declared that this conversation was.

1352
01:24:41,680 --> 01:24:44,080
Speaker 7: Over it's still.

1353
01:24:44,120 --> 01:24:52,439
Speaker 11: Over it's still. Over oh my, god this conversation is still.

1354
01:24:52,479 --> 01:24:56,719
Speaker 11: Over because that's what she tells herself when she needs

1355
01:24:56,720 --> 01:24:57,200
Speaker 11: to feel in.

1356
01:24:57,320 --> 01:25:01,120
Speaker 7: Control so we would, assume SO i would assume that

1357
01:25:01,200 --> 01:25:01,800
Speaker 7: is that is.

1358
01:25:01,840 --> 01:25:05,840
Speaker 6: True i've been treating lists like game, theory and that

1359
01:25:05,960 --> 01:25:11,280
Speaker 6: opinion is purely. Speculative what's not speculative is our demands

1360
01:25:12,000 --> 01:25:16,280
Speaker 6: reinstatement of employment of all union, members including those terminated

1361
01:25:16,479 --> 01:25:21,120
Speaker 6: prior To may twentieth twenty twenty, six the expungement of

1362
01:25:21,200 --> 01:25:27,960
Speaker 6: all disciplinary records for all reinstated, employees backpay for all reinstated,

1363
01:25:28,000 --> 01:25:34,200
Speaker 6: employees the immediate cessation to any and all collections activities

1364
01:25:34,240 --> 01:25:38,120
Speaker 6: related to the outstanding debts owed to REAL U electrolysis

1365
01:25:38,479 --> 01:25:44,040
Speaker 6: by any and all union, members voluntary recognition of REAL

1366
01:25:44,240 --> 01:25:50,960
Speaker 6: U Electrolysis Workers UNITED iwwiu six,' ten and the immediate

1367
01:25:51,040 --> 01:25:55,519
Speaker 6: commencement of bargaining for a new labor contract wherein our

1368
01:25:55,640 --> 01:25:58,559
Speaker 6: right to strike shall not. Be curtailed.

1369
01:26:00,240 --> 01:26:02,479
Speaker 1: This is like one of the THINGS that i think

1370
01:26:02,520 --> 01:26:06,639
Speaker 1: about a lot in terms of just how unbelievably unreasonable management,

1371
01:26:06,680 --> 01:26:10,400
Speaker 1: is being which is that those are such unbelievably reasonable and,

1372
01:26:10,439 --> 01:26:14,679
Speaker 1: moderate DEMANDS like i, don't know like when you reach

1373
01:26:14,760 --> 01:26:18,639
Speaker 1: the point where like paychecks are bouncing because your bosses are,

1374
01:26:18,760 --> 01:26:23,000
Speaker 1: Fucking you like just just the amount of reasonableness and

1375
01:26:23,120 --> 01:26:25,519
Speaker 1: maturity that all of you are showing and the just

1376
01:26:26,479 --> 01:26:30,679
Speaker 1: mix of staggering incompetence and evil management.

1377
01:26:30,720 --> 01:26:33,400
Speaker 7: Is showing is it's.

1378
01:26:33,520 --> 01:26:37,360
Speaker 1: Really Staggering, And YEAH and i guess that leads me

1379
01:26:37,400 --> 01:26:40,240
Speaker 1: to the other part, of that, which, is yeah how

1380
01:26:40,280 --> 01:26:40,840
Speaker 1: can people?

1381
01:26:41,200 --> 01:26:45,000
Speaker 7: Support? Y'all yeah that's sort of like an ongoing thing

1382
01:26:45,040 --> 01:26:47,320
Speaker 7: we're working on. Putting together we don't really have like

1383
01:26:47,479 --> 01:26:51,200
Speaker 7: a web presence at the time of. This recording we

1384
01:26:51,240 --> 01:26:54,120
Speaker 7: do have an email address for the union that we've

1385
01:26:54,120 --> 01:26:57,840
Speaker 7: been directing, people towards and that is, all lowercase all

1386
01:26:57,840 --> 01:27:03,680
Speaker 7: one Word Real union electrolysis at gmail. Dot com and

1387
01:27:03,720 --> 01:27:08,120
Speaker 7: that's ELECTROLYSIS IS E L E C T R O

1388
01:27:09,160 --> 01:27:10,360
Speaker 7: L Y S. I.

1389
01:27:10,720 --> 01:27:13,000
Speaker 1: S yeah, we will we will put we'll put the

1390
01:27:13,000 --> 01:27:16,640
Speaker 1: email in the description and fantastic when media stuff and

1391
01:27:16,760 --> 01:27:19,280
Speaker 1: like social media stuff, gets online we will we'll put

1392
01:27:19,280 --> 01:27:19,559
Speaker 1: that in the.

1393
01:27:19,560 --> 01:27:22,439
Speaker 7: Description, too yeah, right now that is the best way to.

1394
01:27:22,439 --> 01:27:25,680
Speaker 7: Reach us believe you could also reach out TO the

1395
01:27:25,720 --> 01:27:30,360
Speaker 7: Iww and portland since that's so we're. Working with they

1396
01:27:30,400 --> 01:27:33,600
Speaker 7: do coordinate things like strike funds and financial assistance and,

1397
01:27:33,640 --> 01:27:37,560
Speaker 7: all that and so we do have their resources available,

1398
01:27:37,600 --> 01:27:40,599
Speaker 7: to us and that might be the most. Expedient way,

1399
01:27:41,360 --> 01:27:44,200
Speaker 7: but yeah we are working as fast as we can

1400
01:27:44,280 --> 01:27:48,400
Speaker 7: to get other, things going like. Internet presence this has

1401
01:27:48,439 --> 01:27:53,519
Speaker 7: all happens, so quickly. It's, astonishing also do you want

1402
01:27:53,520 --> 01:27:56,120
Speaker 7: people to show up to? Your pickets and, if so where? Is? That,

1403
01:27:56,400 --> 01:27:57,680
Speaker 7: oh please we.

1404
01:27:57,680 --> 01:28:01,200
Speaker 6: Would Love that the address for that is nine Oh

1405
01:28:01,240 --> 01:28:08,240
Speaker 6: Seven harney Street, In, Vancouver Washington, Downtown. Vancouver washington i'll say,

1406
01:28:08,240 --> 01:28:11,280
Speaker 6: that again it's nine Oh Seven. Harney, Street awesome i'm

1407
01:28:11,320 --> 01:28:11,960
Speaker 6: out show.

1408
01:28:12,000 --> 01:28:15,960
Speaker 7: Your support. Thank, You yeah and the picket does take

1409
01:28:16,000 --> 01:28:18,599
Speaker 7: place like at the mouth of the. PARKING lot i

1410
01:28:18,640 --> 01:28:21,240
Speaker 7: know there has been some confusion from some folks who

1411
01:28:21,280 --> 01:28:23,479
Speaker 7: wanted to come out as to where they. Meet us,

1412
01:28:23,600 --> 01:28:27,639
Speaker 7: you know it's On On. Harney street like just listen

1413
01:28:27,720 --> 01:28:30,080
Speaker 7: for the music and the cheers and you'll. Find.

1414
01:28:30,160 --> 01:28:33,120
Speaker 1: Us Yeah and i've been out to visit the picket

1415
01:28:33,120 --> 01:28:36,200
Speaker 1: line and it's it's a really. Sweet time everyone there

1416
01:28:36,280 --> 01:28:39,519
Speaker 1: is great and as always are bringing, Picket lines like

1417
01:28:39,920 --> 01:28:43,759
Speaker 1: just just being on a picket line just in support

1418
01:28:44,240 --> 01:28:48,960
Speaker 1: is like get. Incredible experience and also like you if

1419
01:28:49,000 --> 01:28:52,400
Speaker 1: you can like bring food and water, and stuff it's

1420
01:28:52,400 --> 01:28:53,439
Speaker 1: always something that helps.

1421
01:28:54,040 --> 01:28:57,920
Speaker 7: A lot and, oh, yes yeah. Thank you by, the,

1422
01:28:57,960 --> 01:29:02,360
Speaker 7: WAY yes i would like you also add as far as,

1423
01:29:02,400 --> 01:29:05,519
Speaker 7: support is it's not just us who, need support it's also. Our,

1424
01:29:05,600 --> 01:29:11,639
Speaker 7: Patients yeah so anybody who is practicing electrolysis In The

1425
01:29:12,160 --> 01:29:17,439
Speaker 7: Greater portland, vancouver area who is willing to provide care

1426
01:29:17,560 --> 01:29:21,000
Speaker 7: to our displaced patients please reach out to that email

1427
01:29:21,000 --> 01:29:22,920
Speaker 7: address as well so that we can direct them. To.

1428
01:29:22,960 --> 01:29:28,160
Speaker 1: You, Awesome Well DeAsia jack You made thank you so

1429
01:29:28,240 --> 01:29:32,160
Speaker 1: much for coming on. The show, AND yeah i hope

1430
01:29:32,200 --> 01:29:34,160
Speaker 1: we can talk to you fairly soon after.

1431
01:29:34,200 --> 01:29:37,200
Speaker 7: You win, Thank you thank you for, having us thank

1432
01:29:37,200 --> 01:29:39,960
Speaker 7: you for letting us tell. Our, story yeah of course.

1433
01:29:40,040 --> 01:29:43,080
Speaker 7: It's incredible this is such a big help and you

1434
01:29:43,080 --> 01:29:46,040
Speaker 7: you also are such an inspiration and such a treasure to.

1435
01:29:46,120 --> 01:29:48,680
Speaker 7: This Community like i've been doing so good and not

1436
01:29:48,840 --> 01:29:52,000
Speaker 7: thank girling over being on, your show BUT like i

1437
01:29:52,040 --> 01:29:54,120
Speaker 7: have a long, time listener and so this is, just

1438
01:29:54,240 --> 01:29:57,760
Speaker 7: like oh, my god oh, My god i'm talking to

1439
01:29:57,880 --> 01:30:00,960
Speaker 7: Me a walt. Right NOW well i think.

1440
01:30:01,280 --> 01:30:03,439
Speaker 1: YOU KNOW a i want, TO say i think what

1441
01:30:03,520 --> 01:30:05,800
Speaker 1: you're doing is significant and more inspiring than me going

1442
01:30:05,800 --> 01:30:08,400
Speaker 1: on and doing. A podcast like the fact that you

1443
01:30:08,400 --> 01:30:12,040
Speaker 1: you running this strike is just, fucking incredible and the

1444
01:30:12,080 --> 01:30:14,599
Speaker 1: fact that you're fighting for your people and fighting for

1445
01:30:15,880 --> 01:30:22,200
Speaker 1: your patience is a just unbelievable credit to all of

1446
01:30:22,240 --> 01:30:26,160
Speaker 1: you as people, and too, you know like just like

1447
01:30:26,280 --> 01:30:28,760
Speaker 1: to to two trans people, in general you are a

1448
01:30:28,800 --> 01:30:32,680
Speaker 1: credit to. Us all thank, YOU also i want, to

1449
01:30:32,680 --> 01:30:35,000
Speaker 1: say and this is more Evident something i've been saying

1450
01:30:35,000 --> 01:30:36,680
Speaker 1: on the show for a. Long time but like the

1451
01:30:36,720 --> 01:30:40,800
Speaker 1: people who form, unions there it's not some kind of

1452
01:30:40,880 --> 01:30:44,879
Speaker 1: just like special class. Of people it's it's, just literally,

1453
01:30:45,680 --> 01:30:49,360
Speaker 1: it's ordinary everyday people like you, the listener who are

1454
01:30:49,400 --> 01:30:51,519
Speaker 1: the people who join these things and build these booplets

1455
01:30:51,560 --> 01:30:51,800
Speaker 1: and fight.

1456
01:30:51,840 --> 01:30:53,719
Speaker 7: For them and.

1457
01:30:54,080 --> 01:30:57,360
Speaker 1: You know like you too can be the person who

1458
01:30:58,400 --> 01:31:01,759
Speaker 1: builds builds the union you were place and fights forward

1459
01:31:01,800 --> 01:31:06,960
Speaker 1: and wins. Creat end when we, work together when we,

1460
01:31:07,040 --> 01:31:08,960
Speaker 1: organize together when, we fight we can. Fucking win.

1461
01:31:09,400 --> 01:31:12,559
Speaker 6: We, can yeah if, WE'RE done i need to get

1462
01:31:12,600 --> 01:31:14,599
Speaker 6: out to the front LINE so i can get back

1463
01:31:14,600 --> 01:31:16,479
Speaker 6: to hollering at these people because they.

1464
01:31:16,479 --> 01:31:19,000
Speaker 7: Need Hollered, App yeah i'm all fired.

1465
01:31:19,080 --> 01:31:47,200
Speaker 15: Up Now, SO, minneapolis hi and Welcome, to outlaw a

1466
01:31:47,280 --> 01:31:50,479
Speaker 15: podcast about how the law is used to crush descent IN.

1467
01:31:50,560 --> 01:31:54,960
Speaker 4: The us i'm, Your. Host olive on the previous Episode,

1468
01:31:55,000 --> 01:31:57,840
Speaker 4: of Outlaw On It Could, happen here we zoomed in

1469
01:31:58,200 --> 01:32:01,720
Speaker 4: on legal repression of rapid respire bonders in Ice. Occupied

1470
01:32:01,760 --> 01:32:06,439
Speaker 4: minneapolis on, This episode i'm Joined, By bina Joey And,

1471
01:32:06,600 --> 01:32:12,320
Speaker 4: moe movement attorneys Based In, New york Illinois. And california in,

1472
01:32:12,360 --> 01:32:15,360
Speaker 4: this conversation we zoom out to talk about the larger

1473
01:32:15,400 --> 01:32:18,439
Speaker 4: trends and repression of RESISTANCE to ice activity across the

1474
01:32:18,479 --> 01:32:21,720
Speaker 4: country and how to prepare for the long, road ahead.

1475
01:32:22,479 --> 01:32:24,280
Speaker 16: From, the north From, the south.

1476
01:32:24,760 --> 01:32:29,160
Speaker 4: From everywhere Welcome. To outlaw, to start could you all,

1477
01:32:29,200 --> 01:32:32,519
Speaker 4: introduce yourselves the work you do and how it connects

1478
01:32:32,560 --> 01:32:36,639
Speaker 4: to the repression OF anti ice. Protest, ACTIVITY okay.

1479
01:32:36,439 --> 01:32:38,920
Speaker 5: I guess we're gonna start with the. Oldest here My Name's.

1480
01:32:39,000 --> 01:32:42,639
Speaker 5: JOEY mogul i am Based.

1481
01:32:42,680 --> 01:32:47,839
Speaker 9: IN chicago i am the Director Of movement Partnerships At Movement,

1482
01:32:48,120 --> 01:32:52,040
Speaker 9: law lab which is a national organization that is very

1483
01:32:52,080 --> 01:32:54,920
Speaker 9: much in the anti authoritarian fight in.

1484
01:32:55,000 --> 01:32:57,440
Speaker 5: The nation prior To Joining.

1485
01:32:57,120 --> 01:33:00,920
Speaker 9: Movement, LAW lab i was At The People's law office

1486
01:33:01,000 --> 01:33:04,719
Speaker 9: for over twenty, six YEARS where i did mostly civil

1487
01:33:04,840 --> 01:33:10,080
Speaker 9: rights litigation against law enforcement officials and criminal defense of

1488
01:33:10,640 --> 01:33:14,760
Speaker 9: police violence survivors as well as protesters, and organizers and

1489
01:33:14,840 --> 01:33:18,880
Speaker 9: at different points have been proud to represent several organizers

1490
01:33:18,880 --> 01:33:24,439
Speaker 9: and many movements seeking justice. And liberation i'm also Part

1491
01:33:24,479 --> 01:33:28,040
Speaker 9: Of Chicago Torture justice memorials and a board member Of

1492
01:33:28,080 --> 01:33:32,360
Speaker 9: The Chicago Torture justice center and very much involved in

1493
01:33:32,800 --> 01:33:37,679
Speaker 9: the movement, for, justice redress and particularly Reparations for chicago

1494
01:33:37,800 --> 01:33:43,120
Speaker 9: police torture survivors during. The surge Here, IN chicago i

1495
01:33:43,160 --> 01:33:45,040
Speaker 9: was proud to work with a group known As The

1496
01:33:45,040 --> 01:33:48,920
Speaker 9: Black Community, care collective serving as a coordinator of their.

1497
01:33:49,000 --> 01:33:51,880
Speaker 9: Legal committee and that was a group that was very

1498
01:33:51,920 --> 01:33:55,280
Speaker 9: much involved in the resistance and care work that was

1499
01:33:55,320 --> 01:33:58,640
Speaker 9: Happening During Operation, MIDWAIGHTLETS.

1500
01:33:58,439 --> 01:34:01,439
Speaker 12: Joe i don't know if you're the oldest, person HERE

1501
01:34:01,479 --> 01:34:04,160
Speaker 12: but i was referred to today as A gen, x

1502
01:34:04,280 --> 01:34:05,759
Speaker 12: loser if that makes you feel.

1503
01:34:05,760 --> 01:34:06,600
Speaker 6: Any better.

1504
01:34:08,080 --> 01:34:09,439
Speaker 4: My Name Is Maura.

1505
01:34:09,560 --> 01:34:13,719
Speaker 12: Meltzer cohen everybody CALLS. ME mo i am an attorney

1506
01:34:13,720 --> 01:34:19,640
Speaker 12: in private Practice In new YORK and i work in

1507
01:34:19,680 --> 01:34:24,479
Speaker 12: particular to defend people against the politically motivated abuse of the.

1508
01:34:24,560 --> 01:34:30,439
Speaker 12: LEGAL system i Also Teach Federal, Indian Law professional Responsibility

1509
01:34:30,520 --> 01:34:35,360
Speaker 12: and LAWYERING At cuny School of law to the world's

1510
01:34:35,400 --> 01:34:36,479
Speaker 12: best and most brilliant.

1511
01:34:36,560 --> 01:34:41,040
Speaker 17: Law students Hi everybody bina ahfa she. HER pronouns i

1512
01:34:41,120 --> 01:34:44,040
Speaker 17: also have referred to as an ELDER and i don't

1513
01:34:44,040 --> 01:34:45,679
Speaker 17: know when, that happened but here.

1514
01:34:45,680 --> 01:34:46,120
Speaker 5: WE are.

1515
01:34:47,640 --> 01:34:51,000
Speaker 17: I am currently an associate at a law From in

1516
01:34:51,120 --> 01:34:54,799
Speaker 17: la Called hatzel stormer RUNNIGAND where i practice civil rights

1517
01:34:55,040 --> 01:34:59,360
Speaker 17: impact litigation and also where we are external general counsel

1518
01:34:59,520 --> 01:35:03,160
Speaker 17: for some, movement Groups including Muslims For just Futures And

1519
01:35:03,240 --> 01:35:06,960
Speaker 17: jewish Boys. For peace before going To hadzel storm and

1520
01:35:07,000 --> 01:35:10,200
Speaker 17: switching to, CIVIL rights i was a state and federal

1521
01:35:10,240 --> 01:35:13,439
Speaker 17: public defender for nearly, a decade a state Defender In

1522
01:35:13,479 --> 01:35:16,960
Speaker 17: new york and a federal defender HERE. In la prior,

1523
01:35:16,960 --> 01:35:19,800
Speaker 17: TO that i practiced international law and animal, rights law

1524
01:35:20,520 --> 01:35:23,040
Speaker 17: and a lot of my motivation as well has been

1525
01:35:23,080 --> 01:35:27,400
Speaker 17: to support movements and organizers fighting back against the. State

1526
01:35:27,439 --> 01:35:30,559
Speaker 17: repression but that's been a big part of, my work

1527
01:35:31,040 --> 01:35:34,439
Speaker 17: giving Know your, rights trainings advising people and organizers and

1528
01:35:34,520 --> 01:35:37,280
Speaker 17: organizations on their rights and what they, you know what

1529
01:35:37,320 --> 01:35:38,080
Speaker 17: the law says.

1530
01:35:37,840 --> 01:35:38,240
Speaker 1: You can and.

1531
01:35:38,280 --> 01:35:39,439
Speaker 18: Can't do from a.

1532
01:35:39,520 --> 01:35:43,400
Speaker 4: Radical, lens well thank you all for being here over

1533
01:35:43,439 --> 01:35:47,320
Speaker 4: the past, few years from the Movement For palestinian liberation

1534
01:35:47,560 --> 01:35:50,320
Speaker 4: to the many ways people are organizing against ice and.

1535
01:35:50,400 --> 01:35:54,519
Speaker 4: Authoritarianism today i'm curious to start by just hearing a

1536
01:35:54,560 --> 01:35:58,559
Speaker 4: little bit about what broad shifts you're tracking right now

1537
01:35:58,640 --> 01:36:02,360
Speaker 4: in the state's playbook for. Crushing, DISSENT well I mean.

1538
01:36:02,240 --> 01:36:04,719
Speaker 9: I think that, we've seen and you're talking to people

1539
01:36:04,720 --> 01:36:09,360
Speaker 9: who've represented organizers and activists who have been prosecuted by

1540
01:36:09,960 --> 01:36:14,000
Speaker 9: state actors. FOR decades i think that what, we're seeing

1541
01:36:14,120 --> 01:36:19,280
Speaker 9: particularly with, this administration is the weaponization of, federal charges

1542
01:36:19,720 --> 01:36:22,639
Speaker 9: and we're seeing the weaponization of federal charges, en MASS

1543
01:36:23,120 --> 01:36:23,840
Speaker 9: and i think this is.

1544
01:36:23,880 --> 01:36:26,000
Speaker 5: By design we are seeing.

1545
01:36:25,720 --> 01:36:31,559
Speaker 9: That With The National Security presidential memorandum number seven Issued

1546
01:36:31,600 --> 01:36:34,960
Speaker 9: By president trump, and administration where they are wanting to

1547
01:36:35,080 --> 01:36:38,439
Speaker 9: enlist the Use Of Joint Terrorism task force to go

1548
01:36:38,479 --> 01:36:42,760
Speaker 9: after people they deem to be quote domestic, terrorists unquote

1549
01:36:43,360 --> 01:36:46,760
Speaker 9: and that means they are going after individuals who they

1550
01:36:46,880 --> 01:36:52,320
Speaker 9: claim have extreme viewpoints, on immigration radical, gender Ideology anti.

1551
01:36:52,360 --> 01:36:56,559
Speaker 9: AMERICAN sentiment i don't believe we agree with, these determinations and,

1552
01:36:56,600 --> 01:36:58,840
Speaker 9: in fact we absolutely oppose and object to.

1553
01:36:58,880 --> 01:37:00,719
Speaker 5: These determinations but these.

1554
01:37:00,560 --> 01:37:04,360
Speaker 9: Are individuals who do not agree with this administration's views

1555
01:37:04,479 --> 01:37:09,320
Speaker 9: or takes, on immigration, on gender on anti, black violence and.

1556
01:37:09,360 --> 01:37:13,040
Speaker 9: The rest and we see though that this administration is

1557
01:37:13,080 --> 01:37:16,719
Speaker 9: actually working hand in glove with. One another so after

1558
01:37:16,800 --> 01:37:19,840
Speaker 9: the issuance Of The National Security presidential memorana, over seven

1559
01:37:20,200 --> 01:37:23,120
Speaker 9: we Now have panbiani IN The Us attorney's office issuing

1560
01:37:23,120 --> 01:37:27,440
Speaker 9: This memorandum, december fourth, twenty five where they are basically

1561
01:37:27,479 --> 01:37:30,840
Speaker 9: calling On The joint Terriors And, task force they're calling on,

1562
01:37:30,920 --> 01:37:33,719
Speaker 9: federal agents and they're calling On the Department of justice

1563
01:37:34,040 --> 01:37:38,439
Speaker 9: to go after organizers and activists throughout. The nation they

1564
01:37:38,520 --> 01:37:42,120
Speaker 9: list twenty seven enumerated crimes and those memos things, like,

1565
01:37:42,320 --> 01:37:47,720
Speaker 9: rioting looting so, called, doxing swatting conspiracies to impede or

1566
01:37:47,760 --> 01:37:50,800
Speaker 9: assault law, enforcement officers destruction, of property and.

1567
01:37:50,760 --> 01:37:53,439
Speaker 5: The rest as well as trying to enlist the use

1568
01:37:53,479 --> 01:37:53,760
Speaker 5: of the.

1569
01:37:53,720 --> 01:37:57,800
Speaker 9: Irs and other tax crimes to go after organizers and

1570
01:37:58,040 --> 01:38:02,960
Speaker 9: organizations in. Several, ways essentially anyone who opposes this administration

1571
01:38:03,600 --> 01:38:04,320
Speaker 9: is someone in the.

1572
01:38:04,360 --> 01:38:07,800
Speaker 4: Target sites can you tell me more about what these

1573
01:38:07,840 --> 01:38:10,960
Speaker 4: federal charges are and what is new about what we're seeing?

1574
01:38:11,040 --> 01:38:15,240
Speaker 5: Right now so now what we've seen since the onset of,

1575
01:38:15,240 --> 01:38:18,640
Speaker 5: this administration so for over a year now we have

1576
01:38:18,840 --> 01:38:23,599
Speaker 5: seen the exponential rise and federal charges being lodged.

1577
01:38:23,640 --> 01:38:27,639
Speaker 9: AGAINST organizers i think that is very much a different

1578
01:38:28,080 --> 01:38:31,920
Speaker 9: landscape than we have seen. In DECADES and i don't

1579
01:38:31,960 --> 01:38:34,240
Speaker 9: want to say there hasn't been the use By the

1580
01:38:34,240 --> 01:38:37,320
Speaker 9: Department of justice to bring federal charges in, the past

1581
01:38:37,760 --> 01:38:41,160
Speaker 9: but not in this massive scale that we are currently

1582
01:38:41,200 --> 01:38:45,080
Speaker 9: seeing it. Right now and so what we are, SEEING

1583
01:38:45,280 --> 01:38:49,839
Speaker 9: is i, would say, in particular we're seeing, these assault

1584
01:38:50,240 --> 01:38:54,599
Speaker 9: impeding harassing, officer charges which IS. Eighteen usc section, one

1585
01:38:54,680 --> 01:38:59,280
Speaker 9: eleven being brought in scores across. The nation that is

1586
01:38:59,320 --> 01:39:02,880
Speaker 9: not something we typically have. Seen before we are also

1587
01:39:02,960 --> 01:39:08,479
Speaker 9: seeing charges of conspiracy to impede OFFICERS. Eighteen usc section two. Forty,

1588
01:39:08,479 --> 01:39:11,799
Speaker 9: one again that's not something we generally have. Seen, BEFORE

1589
01:39:12,680 --> 01:39:15,040
Speaker 9: generally i, can say, for example as someone who Was

1590
01:39:15,080 --> 01:39:19,280
Speaker 9: in chicago who was part of representing protesters who were

1591
01:39:19,520 --> 01:39:24,960
Speaker 9: Protesting The Democratic. National convention generally the federal government and federal.

1592
01:39:24,680 --> 01:39:26,799
Speaker 5: Agencies don't get involved in protest.

1593
01:39:26,880 --> 01:39:31,240
Speaker 9: Related activity but for arson cases prior To the, trump

1594
01:39:31,280 --> 01:39:34,840
Speaker 9: administration that playbook is out and this new playbook. Is

1595
01:39:34,840 --> 01:39:38,160
Speaker 9: in so we are absolutely seeing the federal government stepping

1596
01:39:38,240 --> 01:39:42,640
Speaker 9: in and engaging in this policing and persecution of protesters

1597
01:39:42,680 --> 01:39:45,960
Speaker 9: and organizers in a way that we have not. Seen before,

1598
01:39:46,520 --> 01:39:50,080
Speaker 9: that said there's a silver lining here is the federal

1599
01:39:50,080 --> 01:39:53,800
Speaker 9: government is overreaching in so many of, these cases and

1600
01:39:53,960 --> 01:39:57,400
Speaker 9: many of these charges are. Being dismissed many of these

1601
01:39:57,479 --> 01:40:00,640
Speaker 9: charges are being DECLINED by, us attorneys and there have

1602
01:40:00,800 --> 01:40:04,400
Speaker 9: been several not guilty VERDICTS in la as well As

1603
01:40:04,400 --> 01:40:08,400
Speaker 9: in chicago as Well. As miami, and FURTHER what i think,

1604
01:40:08,439 --> 01:40:11,080
Speaker 9: is STRIKING and i think that this is really unheard

1605
01:40:11,120 --> 01:40:14,280
Speaker 9: of for criminal defense attorneys, in particular is we're actually

1606
01:40:14,360 --> 01:40:17,200
Speaker 9: seeing grand juries refusing to indict in.

1607
01:40:17,280 --> 01:40:19,360
Speaker 5: These cases and given.

1608
01:40:19,160 --> 01:40:22,920
Speaker 9: How biased grand jury, investigations go how one sided, they

1609
01:40:22,960 --> 01:40:26,120
Speaker 9: are to have the grand juries come back and not

1610
01:40:26,240 --> 01:40:30,320
Speaker 9: return an indictment really is showing that people are resisting

1611
01:40:30,720 --> 01:40:34,000
Speaker 9: and they are not buying the government's slogan and lines

1612
01:40:34,080 --> 01:40:36,360
Speaker 9: and playbook, on this and they, are, saying no we're

1613
01:40:36,360 --> 01:40:38,519
Speaker 9: not going to put up. With this so while on

1614
01:40:38,560 --> 01:40:42,000
Speaker 9: the one hand it's a whole, new landscape we're also

1615
01:40:42,400 --> 01:40:45,559
Speaker 9: seeing the counterpart of, people resisting and that includes in the.

1616
01:40:45,560 --> 01:40:48,680
Speaker 4: Federal courts if the term grand jury is new, to

1617
01:40:48,720 --> 01:40:52,759
Speaker 4: you it's basically a special jury in federal criminal cases

1618
01:40:53,200 --> 01:40:56,760
Speaker 4: that is appointed to decide if there's enough evidence to

1619
01:40:56,840 --> 01:41:01,200
Speaker 4: bring the official, criminal charge the indictment against, the defendant

1620
01:41:01,720 --> 01:41:05,280
Speaker 4: but they're super rigged against. The defendant basically they, always

1621
01:41:05,360 --> 01:41:09,920
Speaker 4: indict and often the grand jury process is just an

1622
01:41:09,960 --> 01:41:14,599
Speaker 4: information gathering tool for, the government especially in, movement cases

1623
01:41:14,680 --> 01:41:18,280
Speaker 4: people get subpoena to testify before grand jury's in a

1624
01:41:18,320 --> 01:41:21,320
Speaker 4: way that often seems just like a phishing expedition because

1625
01:41:21,360 --> 01:41:24,200
Speaker 4: whatever they say can be used, against them and only

1626
01:41:24,240 --> 01:41:27,519
Speaker 4: the prosecution gets to present evidence to the. Grand jury

1627
01:41:27,800 --> 01:41:30,439
Speaker 4: there's a lot more to, say there but check out

1628
01:41:30,439 --> 01:41:33,560
Speaker 4: the show Notes and i'll link some really important conversations

1629
01:41:33,560 --> 01:41:34,519
Speaker 4: and resources about.

1630
01:41:34,520 --> 01:41:38,519
Speaker 12: GRAND jury's i think that's all, Exactly, right joey but

1631
01:41:38,600 --> 01:41:43,240
Speaker 12: it isn't one hundred percent. New right What the trump

1632
01:41:43,280 --> 01:41:48,200
Speaker 12: administration is doing is that they are able To Police

1633
01:41:48,920 --> 01:41:55,160
Speaker 12: first amendment, protected, identities beliefs and associations by trying to define, those,

1634
01:41:55,400 --> 01:42:02,080
Speaker 12: beliefs identities and associations. As terrorists and so there's a

1635
01:42:02,240 --> 01:42:08,840
Speaker 12: whole apparatus for fighting terrorism that they then can, pull

1636
01:42:08,920 --> 01:42:14,640
Speaker 12: in draw upon resources they, can use and legal authorities

1637
01:42:14,960 --> 01:42:18,519
Speaker 12: that they, can exercise as long as the thing that

1638
01:42:18,560 --> 01:42:24,160
Speaker 12: they're policing is something that can be. Called, terrorism well

1639
01:42:25,000 --> 01:42:28,960
Speaker 12: by defining all of these things, as terrorism that lets

1640
01:42:29,000 --> 01:42:33,160
Speaker 12: them sort of trigger all of these resources. And authorities

1641
01:42:34,240 --> 01:42:38,200
Speaker 12: those resources and authorities were not put in place by.

1642
01:42:38,840 --> 01:42:43,679
Speaker 12: This administration they were put In place post nine.

1643
01:42:43,680 --> 01:42:46,200
Speaker 19: To eleven they were put in Place By.

1644
01:42:46,280 --> 01:42:50,240
Speaker 12: Barack obama they were put in Place By, joe. Biden

1645
01:42:50,800 --> 01:42:53,360
Speaker 12: right and so this is not a problem With the.

1646
01:42:53,400 --> 01:42:58,400
Speaker 12: Trump administration this is a problem with the. Surveillance state

1647
01:42:58,840 --> 01:43:03,960
Speaker 12: this is a problem with consolidating federal police authority and

1648
01:43:04,760 --> 01:43:09,919
Speaker 12: making it easier and easier for the federal law enforcement

1649
01:43:09,960 --> 01:43:15,840
Speaker 12: apparatus to assert jurisdiction over what we would normally understand

1650
01:43:16,160 --> 01:43:20,639
Speaker 12: to be state level matters such as garden.

1651
01:43:20,760 --> 01:43:23,920
Speaker 19: Variety protest and so the shift.

1652
01:43:23,600 --> 01:43:28,040
Speaker 12: Is not one of kind as much as it is

1653
01:43:28,080 --> 01:43:31,839
Speaker 12: a shift in scope where we're seeing the federal, government

1654
01:43:32,080 --> 01:43:37,479
Speaker 12: TREATING as, i said garden variety protest conduct as though

1655
01:43:37,880 --> 01:43:42,240
Speaker 12: it is militant. Revolutionary, ACTION now i.

1656
01:43:42,160 --> 01:43:45,559
Speaker 9: Totally agree, with that and to underscore, your point not

1657
01:43:45,640 --> 01:43:48,960
Speaker 9: a single law has needed to. Be passed there's been

1658
01:43:49,000 --> 01:43:52,120
Speaker 9: no legislation that's needed to be changed in order to

1659
01:43:52,160 --> 01:43:55,559
Speaker 9: effectuate these, prosecutions whatsoever let alone this.

1660
01:43:55,640 --> 01:43:57,479
Speaker 5: Immigration enforcement this all.

1661
01:43:57,520 --> 01:44:01,000
Speaker 9: Pre Existed the trump administrationmistration hasn't passed the.

1662
01:44:01,000 --> 01:44:02,679
Speaker 5: Sing LAW so i absolutely agree.

1663
01:44:02,680 --> 01:44:05,200
Speaker 9: With you i'm just saying, you're right the garden variety

1664
01:44:05,280 --> 01:44:07,120
Speaker 9: level of prosecutions we, haven't seen.

1665
01:44:06,960 --> 01:44:08,080
Speaker 5: And it's the scale.

1666
01:44:08,120 --> 01:44:11,920
Speaker 9: Of this, but again we, absolutely know, for Example the

1667
01:44:11,920 --> 01:44:15,639
Speaker 9: biden administration Pursued The face act against Individuals in florida

1668
01:44:16,160 --> 01:44:20,240
Speaker 9: regarding one of these. False clinics, you know it's not

1669
01:44:20,360 --> 01:44:23,360
Speaker 9: that these tools weren't. USED before i just think the

1670
01:44:23,479 --> 01:44:25,120
Speaker 9: scope and scale is not what.

1671
01:44:25,200 --> 01:44:26,680
Speaker 5: We've, seen YEAH and i.

1672
01:44:26,720 --> 01:44:29,840
Speaker 12: Totally AGREE and i think it's important to note that

1673
01:44:30,320 --> 01:44:34,880
Speaker 12: the fact that the law hasn't changed, is important not

1674
01:44:35,040 --> 01:44:39,640
Speaker 12: simply because the laws already existed to bring, these prosecutions

1675
01:44:40,240 --> 01:44:44,360
Speaker 12: but because the law actually, hasn't changed which Means The

1676
01:44:44,400 --> 01:44:48,360
Speaker 12: first amendment remains, in effect which means that a lot of,

1677
01:44:48,400 --> 01:44:52,839
Speaker 12: these prosecutions as you, Pointed, out joey are going nowhere

1678
01:44:53,320 --> 01:44:57,320
Speaker 12: because they actually can't really be sustained under the.

1679
01:44:57,439 --> 01:45:02,600
Speaker 17: Current, regime yeah the scale and the aggressiveness and, THE

1680
01:45:02,640 --> 01:45:05,880
Speaker 17: scope i think is something we haven't really dealt, with before.

1681
01:45:05,840 --> 01:45:06,800
Speaker 18: You know in terms of it being.

1682
01:45:07,120 --> 01:45:09,200
Speaker 17: NOT new, i mean we know the founding of, this

1683
01:45:09,240 --> 01:45:12,240
Speaker 17: country and it's not a. Just SYSTEM and i think

1684
01:45:12,240 --> 01:45:14,120
Speaker 17: if we just also start, from that that is the

1685
01:45:14,160 --> 01:45:18,679
Speaker 17: system that protects property and white nationalism and violence and power,

1686
01:45:18,920 --> 01:45:21,360
Speaker 17: and CAPITALISM then i think we can sort of like

1687
01:45:21,439 --> 01:45:24,679
Speaker 17: see where these powers originated from and where the structure.

1688
01:45:24,720 --> 01:45:27,880
Speaker 17: Originated from and we've also seen that used against, you

1689
01:45:27,960 --> 01:45:30,240
Speaker 17: know radical, black activists.

1690
01:45:29,720 --> 01:45:31,519
Speaker 18: Against The american. Indian movement.

1691
01:45:32,080 --> 01:45:34,040
Speaker 17: You know so like a lot of these things that we're,

1692
01:45:34,040 --> 01:45:37,599
Speaker 17: seeing now we're tested on communities, of color, you know

1693
01:45:37,680 --> 01:45:40,400
Speaker 17: prior to, seeing okay, what works what, doesn't work and

1694
01:45:40,439 --> 01:45:43,640
Speaker 17: then bringing THIS surge i think to, our communities, YOU

1695
01:45:43,680 --> 01:45:45,760
Speaker 17: know i think in addition to, YOU know I think

1696
01:45:45,800 --> 01:45:48,000
Speaker 17: majory was saying About The, face act that is something

1697
01:45:48,400 --> 01:45:51,360
Speaker 17: we haven't really seen prosecutions Under The face, act before

1698
01:45:51,439 --> 01:45:54,719
Speaker 17: right Because The face act is actually technically to protect

1699
01:45:54,720 --> 01:45:55,160
Speaker 17: access to.

1700
01:45:55,200 --> 01:45:57,960
Speaker 18: Abortion CLINICS and i think that one thing that.

1701
01:45:57,840 --> 01:46:02,720
Speaker 17: This administration is doing is finding creative different ways to

1702
01:46:02,760 --> 01:46:05,800
Speaker 17: manipulate the laws that are already terrible to go after

1703
01:46:05,840 --> 01:46:08,640
Speaker 17: folks in a way that we haven't. Seen before like mo,

1704
01:46:08,880 --> 01:46:11,599
Speaker 17: was saying like so much of the work that we've

1705
01:46:11,600 --> 01:46:14,559
Speaker 17: done defending protesters, and movements a lot of it. Is stayed,

1706
01:46:14,720 --> 01:46:16,640
Speaker 17: of course, you know some has always, been federal but

1707
01:46:16,680 --> 01:46:19,320
Speaker 17: a lot is. Usually state and to then see these

1708
01:46:19,360 --> 01:46:22,680
Speaker 17: federal not only prosecutions For The face, ACT word, i

1709
01:46:22,720 --> 01:46:26,559
Speaker 17: know we'll get into the material support prosecutions but also like,

1710
01:46:26,640 --> 01:46:29,439
Speaker 17: civil LITIGATION which i think is something we've never, not

1711
01:46:29,520 --> 01:46:31,640
Speaker 17: never but really we're not prepared for or dealt with

1712
01:46:31,680 --> 01:46:35,120
Speaker 17: as a movement before these massive civil pieces of litigation

1713
01:46:35,240 --> 01:46:37,559
Speaker 17: that while on the one hand are brought mostly by

1714
01:46:37,600 --> 01:46:40,639
Speaker 17: private Actors like, zionist actors we know that they're really

1715
01:46:40,680 --> 01:46:44,120
Speaker 17: coordinated by and with the administration because then the administration

1716
01:46:44,160 --> 01:46:47,639
Speaker 17: has mimicked bringing these same lawsuits against these very same

1717
01:46:47,640 --> 01:46:50,400
Speaker 17: activists for the same causes when we know that they're,

1718
01:46:50,439 --> 01:46:53,559
Speaker 17: in coordination AND so i think that's also really important

1719
01:46:53,560 --> 01:46:56,479
Speaker 17: to know is that the, civil component, you know. The movement,

1720
01:46:56,520 --> 01:46:59,160
Speaker 17: of course, like criminals where we've always been the most

1721
01:46:59,240 --> 01:47:01,840
Speaker 17: concerned is someone liberty is on, the lines of life

1722
01:47:01,880 --> 01:47:01,960
Speaker 17: is on.

1723
01:47:02,040 --> 01:47:02,800
Speaker 19: The line but.

1724
01:47:02,840 --> 01:47:06,000
Speaker 17: Civil is also like this slow death right of time

1725
01:47:06,160 --> 01:47:09,640
Speaker 17: and money and just draining ORGANIZATIONS that i think is

1726
01:47:09,640 --> 01:47:10,800
Speaker 17: something that we've now had to.

1727
01:47:11,400 --> 01:47:14,960
Speaker 4: Really grasp katskill follow, Up, question binat can you break

1728
01:47:15,000 --> 01:47:17,840
Speaker 4: down for people who are listening and really not in the,

1729
01:47:17,920 --> 01:47:22,880
Speaker 4: legal world why a civil case impacts, someone's life why

1730
01:47:23,080 --> 01:47:27,120
Speaker 4: civil cases against activists are really disruptive. To, movements sure

1731
01:47:27,760 --> 01:47:28,040
Speaker 4: there are.

1732
01:47:28,040 --> 01:47:31,160
Speaker 17: Many ways so when a civil, CASE lands, i mean

1733
01:47:31,200 --> 01:47:33,800
Speaker 17: first you don't have the right to free counsel like

1734
01:47:33,840 --> 01:47:37,160
Speaker 17: you do with a. Criminal case it's not guaranteed in.

1735
01:47:37,200 --> 01:47:41,280
Speaker 17: The constitution you're not facing prison time, and incarceration so

1736
01:47:41,320 --> 01:47:43,759
Speaker 17: you're not. Guaranteed that so one you have to find

1737
01:47:43,880 --> 01:47:46,400
Speaker 17: either free counsel or you can pay for someone to.

1738
01:47:46,479 --> 01:47:49,559
Speaker 17: Defend you and when the, lawsuit lands there's so many things.

1739
01:47:49,560 --> 01:47:53,400
Speaker 17: That happen there's an affirmative obligation, for you as the

1740
01:47:53,400 --> 01:47:56,519
Speaker 17: one who's, being sued to preserve any evidence that could

1741
01:47:56,560 --> 01:47:59,840
Speaker 17: be relevant to. The case that is completely antithetical to

1742
01:48:00,120 --> 01:48:00,479
Speaker 17: a lot of.

1743
01:48:00,640 --> 01:48:02,960
Speaker 18: Movements do we don't like save documents and then turn

1744
01:48:03,000 --> 01:48:03,760
Speaker 18: them over to the.

1745
01:48:03,760 --> 01:48:06,519
Speaker 17: Other side we're going to, you know keep our work

1746
01:48:06,560 --> 01:48:09,280
Speaker 17: internal and our organizing and who we. Work with and

1747
01:48:09,439 --> 01:48:13,400
Speaker 17: civil lawsuits really make that really difficult because you have

1748
01:48:13,479 --> 01:48:15,559
Speaker 17: to turn over discovery if it gets that far in,

1749
01:48:15,600 --> 01:48:18,080
Speaker 17: the case and you can't, you know, delete things and

1750
01:48:18,120 --> 01:48:20,559
Speaker 17: you can't let things get deleted luck, on signal and if,

1751
01:48:20,600 --> 01:48:22,280
Speaker 17: you know you can, be sanctioned and there's all these

1752
01:48:22,280 --> 01:48:23,960
Speaker 17: things that could happen if they find out that, that

1753
01:48:24,080 --> 01:48:27,200
Speaker 17: happened and then you're, subject to, you know other things like,

1754
01:48:27,240 --> 01:48:30,040
Speaker 17: being deposed, being questioned by the, other side a lot

1755
01:48:30,120 --> 01:48:31,960
Speaker 17: things you don't want to talk about and that are

1756
01:48:31,960 --> 01:48:35,000
Speaker 17: really antithetical to what we what, we do and these

1757
01:48:35,040 --> 01:48:38,880
Speaker 17: cases can go on for years, and years and even if,

1758
01:48:38,920 --> 01:48:40,800
Speaker 17: you win there can, be appeals there can, you know

1759
01:48:40,840 --> 01:48:44,000
Speaker 17: there's there's just so much that doesn't feel like it

1760
01:48:44,040 --> 01:48:47,519
Speaker 17: ever ends with, civil litigation and so much where people,

1761
01:48:48,000 --> 01:48:49,639
Speaker 17: you know even just have moved on in, their Lives

1762
01:48:49,640 --> 01:48:51,320
Speaker 17: like i've moved a, different city you have a different,

1763
01:48:51,360 --> 01:48:53,720
Speaker 17: job now but you're still always tied back to this.

1764
01:48:53,800 --> 01:48:55,479
Speaker 17: Civil case and there's no sort of like right to

1765
01:48:55,479 --> 01:48:57,920
Speaker 17: a speedy trial in a, civil case right that's that's

1766
01:48:57,920 --> 01:49:00,400
Speaker 17: for a. Criminal case so all of, this Stuff and

1767
01:49:00,479 --> 01:49:02,840
Speaker 17: i'm sure there's many Other things i'm not mentioning that

1768
01:49:03,240 --> 01:49:05,439
Speaker 17: you have to go through or that impact your life

1769
01:49:05,479 --> 01:49:08,400
Speaker 17: once you're being, civilly soon but a lot, of that,

1770
01:49:08,640 --> 01:49:10,839
Speaker 17: you know it's it's not again like things.

1771
01:49:10,600 --> 01:49:12,320
Speaker 18: That we have really dealt with as a.

1772
01:49:12,360 --> 01:49:15,640
Speaker 17: Movement before and, you know, really importantly people don't have

1773
01:49:15,720 --> 01:49:18,479
Speaker 17: the money to pay for lawyers for years and years,

1774
01:49:18,479 --> 01:49:22,200
Speaker 17: and years and it's really expensive to do civil litigation and.

1775
01:49:22,240 --> 01:49:24,800
Speaker 17: Civil defense it goes. On forever you have to do

1776
01:49:24,920 --> 01:49:29,080
Speaker 17: so many different pieces of discovery and, you know motions

1777
01:49:29,120 --> 01:49:31,479
Speaker 17: and like all of that is so much, more involved

1778
01:49:31,880 --> 01:49:33,880
Speaker 17: and IT really i think part of the tactic is to.

1779
01:49:34,000 --> 01:49:36,920
Speaker 17: Bankrupt organizations that's a big part of why these actors

1780
01:49:36,960 --> 01:49:37,519
Speaker 17: are bringing these.

1781
01:49:37,520 --> 01:49:50,800
Speaker 18: CIVIL suits.

1782
01:49:49,240 --> 01:49:53,680
Speaker 12: I just want to intervene strategically at this moment to

1783
01:49:53,880 --> 01:49:59,280
Speaker 12: say that Everything that Joey and bina are talking about

1784
01:49:59,479 --> 01:50:03,519
Speaker 12: is true and critical, and important and we need to

1785
01:50:03,560 --> 01:50:08,720
Speaker 12: be so alert to the way that these federal apparatuses are.

1786
01:50:09,120 --> 01:50:10,919
Speaker 19: Being deployed against.

1787
01:50:10,960 --> 01:50:15,559
Speaker 12: Our COMMUNITIES but i also want to say that one

1788
01:50:15,600 --> 01:50:18,439
Speaker 12: of the things we have seen over the last couple

1789
01:50:18,479 --> 01:50:21,240
Speaker 12: of YEARS that i think is so important and we

1790
01:50:21,560 --> 01:50:24,920
Speaker 12: have to hang on to for, dear life is that when,

1791
01:50:24,960 --> 01:50:29,880
Speaker 12: we fight. We win and so what we're starting to,

1792
01:50:29,960 --> 01:50:33,559
Speaker 12: see now, you know we just saw some of my

1793
01:50:34,520 --> 01:50:39,280
Speaker 12: impressive and beloved Colleagues At counity School of law are

1794
01:50:39,439 --> 01:50:44,040
Speaker 12: litigating a case right now in the federal Courts About

1795
01:50:44,040 --> 01:50:48,240
Speaker 12: columbia university's repression of. Student activists and what we're seeing

1796
01:50:49,040 --> 01:50:51,840
Speaker 12: is the court coming back with these rulings that Say

1797
01:50:52,320 --> 01:50:57,880
Speaker 12: anti zionism is not. Hate Speech, columbia university acting at

1798
01:50:57,920 --> 01:51:01,640
Speaker 12: the behest of the executive makes them subject to the

1799
01:51:01,680 --> 01:51:05,880
Speaker 12: constraints Of The. First amendment it's potentially violative Of The

1800
01:51:05,880 --> 01:51:10,400
Speaker 12: first amendment to discipline students for engaging in. Speech right

1801
01:51:10,720 --> 01:51:14,799
Speaker 12: we're seeing people fight these, federal cases both criminal, and civil.

1802
01:51:15,320 --> 01:51:19,360
Speaker 12: And Winning as, joey mentioned we're seeing grand juries declining

1803
01:51:19,439 --> 01:51:23,480
Speaker 12: to issue indictments or to authorize prosecutors to. Issue INDICTMENTS

1804
01:51:23,840 --> 01:51:27,080
Speaker 12: so i do want, to say, you know we really

1805
01:51:27,120 --> 01:51:32,280
Speaker 12: do see the power of communities taking on that, legal

1806
01:51:32,320 --> 01:51:37,559
Speaker 12: battle fighting with, you know our, community movement legal people

1807
01:51:38,160 --> 01:51:42,200
Speaker 12: and meeting that challenge. Head ON and, i think as

1808
01:51:42,760 --> 01:51:47,599
Speaker 12: devastating and exhausting as, it is and as terrible as

1809
01:51:47,600 --> 01:51:53,040
Speaker 12: the consequences and the risks, REALLY are i do want

1810
01:51:53,080 --> 01:51:55,760
Speaker 12: to say we do see people having a lot, of

1811
01:51:55,800 --> 01:51:59,439
Speaker 12: courage marshaling a lot of resources and energy and.

1812
01:51:59,560 --> 01:52:01,360
Speaker 19: Winning reliably.

1813
01:52:02,320 --> 01:52:06,000
Speaker 4: Thank YOU and, I know joey you started talking a

1814
01:52:06,000 --> 01:52:09,519
Speaker 4: little bit about what we've been seeing broadly across the

1815
01:52:09,560 --> 01:52:13,200
Speaker 4: country and how the state has been repressing specifically anti.

1816
01:52:13,240 --> 01:52:15,840
Speaker 4: ICE activity i know you've been Based in chicago and

1817
01:52:16,240 --> 01:52:21,080
Speaker 4: particularly tuned into what's, happening there and it's been Similar,

1818
01:52:21,120 --> 01:52:23,599
Speaker 4: in minneapolis where it's been a lot OF eighteen usc

1819
01:52:23,680 --> 01:52:27,320
Speaker 4: one eleven cases, federal charges and part of what is

1820
01:52:27,320 --> 01:52:31,479
Speaker 4: coming up is just unpreparedness for movements to meet and

1821
01:52:31,520 --> 01:52:35,559
Speaker 4: defend against these kinds. Of charges and also similar vein

1822
01:52:35,800 --> 01:52:39,160
Speaker 4: to THE question i, just asked why it matters for

1823
01:52:39,439 --> 01:52:42,759
Speaker 4: people's lives and form of movements that it's federal charges

1824
01:52:42,840 --> 01:52:44,160
Speaker 4: coming down instead of STATE.

1825
01:52:44,240 --> 01:52:48,759
Speaker 17: Charges FINA when i transitioned from state to, federal defense

1826
01:52:49,240 --> 01:52:53,679
Speaker 17: my reaction, Was, like state it's always horrible just being

1827
01:52:53,720 --> 01:52:56,280
Speaker 17: in the criminal system. And fighting it's Very like David,

1828
01:52:56,320 --> 01:52:59,200
Speaker 17: And GOLIATH but i FELT like i had a more

1829
01:52:59,200 --> 01:53:01,400
Speaker 17: of a fighting chance in. State COURT when i got.

1830
01:53:01,400 --> 01:53:05,120
Speaker 17: To federal it was shocking how much worse it felt for,

1831
01:53:05,240 --> 01:53:08,640
Speaker 17: my clients how restricted you are in.

1832
01:53:09,040 --> 01:53:09,960
Speaker 18: A state it.

1833
01:53:09,880 --> 01:53:11,760
Speaker 17: Really feels like when you're doing, a trial you have

1834
01:53:11,880 --> 01:53:13,680
Speaker 17: the power to kind of run. The show right, of

1835
01:53:13,680 --> 01:53:16,840
Speaker 17: course a judge can like shoot down many motions, for

1836
01:53:16,920 --> 01:53:20,280
Speaker 17: experts for like for, you know doing, certain defenses but

1837
01:53:20,360 --> 01:53:23,040
Speaker 17: federal is so much more constrained in, my experience where

1838
01:53:23,439 --> 01:53:25,920
Speaker 17: federal judges want to have to so much, more POWER

1839
01:53:25,960 --> 01:53:28,479
Speaker 17: and I think i wasn't also just didn't appreciate how

1840
01:53:28,560 --> 01:53:31,479
Speaker 17: much more power federal judges had and how much more

1841
01:53:31,520 --> 01:53:33,720
Speaker 17: they were willing to. Wield it BUT also i think

1842
01:53:33,720 --> 01:53:36,800
Speaker 17: in terms of the charges, are heavier plea barreeting and

1843
01:53:36,880 --> 01:53:38,200
Speaker 17: sentencing is so much harder.

1844
01:53:38,200 --> 01:53:40,760
Speaker 18: And heavier you're. Very restricted even though the.

1845
01:53:40,720 --> 01:53:44,200
Speaker 17: Sentencing guidelines, for instance are no, longer mandatory that's what

1846
01:53:44,320 --> 01:53:48,280
Speaker 17: everyone judges and prosecutors still mostly. Go by there's so

1847
01:53:48,320 --> 01:53:52,120
Speaker 17: many more. Mandatory minimums it's so easy to catch a federal,

1848
01:53:52,200 --> 01:53:54,960
Speaker 17: charge too, you know things like even just, gun possession

1849
01:53:55,080 --> 01:53:57,839
Speaker 17: right because a gun might have been Manufactured in texas

1850
01:53:57,840 --> 01:54:00,400
Speaker 17: and then Bought, in california which most people wouldn't is a,

1851
01:54:00,400 --> 01:54:04,000
Speaker 17: federal offense but it can be. Charged federally just all of,

1852
01:54:04,040 --> 01:54:06,479
Speaker 17: THOSE factors i THINK just i realized how much harder

1853
01:54:06,560 --> 01:54:08,800
Speaker 17: it was in federal court for my clients to have a.

1854
01:54:08,840 --> 01:54:11,920
Speaker 17: Fighting chance but you know that, BEING said i don't

1855
01:54:12,000 --> 01:54:14,080
Speaker 17: mean to make states sound like it's this like set,

1856
01:54:14,080 --> 01:54:15,200
Speaker 17: of gold like, oh great and we're.

1857
01:54:15,080 --> 01:54:16,920
Speaker 18: Going to do whatever we want. In state not.

1858
01:54:17,040 --> 01:54:19,600
Speaker 17: AT all i FELT like i could. FIGHT more i

1859
01:54:19,640 --> 01:54:22,639
Speaker 17: had more leeway to fight. In state, You KNOW federal

1860
01:54:22,800 --> 01:54:24,759
Speaker 17: i think is a whole is a whole. Other animal

1861
01:54:25,400 --> 01:54:26,120
Speaker 17: that was a.

1862
01:54:26,120 --> 01:54:29,200
Speaker 4: Great answer and if either of you don't have anything

1863
01:54:29,200 --> 01:54:32,040
Speaker 4: more pressing TO add i would turn us back to

1864
01:54:32,480 --> 01:54:34,800
Speaker 4: just the question of if there's anything else we wanted

1865
01:54:34,800 --> 01:54:40,280
Speaker 4: to talk about trends in charging across the country of anti. Ice,

1866
01:54:40,360 --> 01:54:41,680
Speaker 4: PROTEST well.

1867
01:54:41,520 --> 01:54:41,840
Speaker 7: I know i.

1868
01:54:41,880 --> 01:54:43,880
Speaker 9: JUST don't I think i want to echo Something that moways,

1869
01:54:43,920 --> 01:54:45,640
Speaker 9: talked About and i'm not trying to leave, it OUT

1870
01:54:45,640 --> 01:54:48,360
Speaker 9: but i do think the resistance this is, so AMAZING

1871
01:54:48,400 --> 01:54:51,280
Speaker 9: and i think that, you know essentially people are being

1872
01:54:51,360 --> 01:54:55,280
Speaker 9: Arrested For first, amendment activity whether it's it's VIDEO recording

1873
01:54:55,800 --> 01:55:01,080
Speaker 9: ICE and cbp, agents actions whether it's foul, going officers

1874
01:55:01,160 --> 01:55:05,080
Speaker 9: whether it's announcing their presence. With whistles we've seen, People

1875
01:55:05,320 --> 01:55:10,480
Speaker 9: arrested we've seen, people detain we've seen. People interrogated sometimes,

1876
01:55:10,520 --> 01:55:14,360
Speaker 9: they're charged sometimes. They're NOT but i think what's striking

1877
01:55:14,440 --> 01:55:16,839
Speaker 9: is we've seen so many of these cases, fall apart

1878
01:55:17,040 --> 01:55:20,800
Speaker 9: and to, be honest But For, Prairie, land texas which is,

1879
01:55:20,920 --> 01:55:24,600
Speaker 9: devastating loss the federal government has lost in many of.

1880
01:55:24,640 --> 01:55:28,320
Speaker 9: These cases they've been able to charge or the cases have,

1881
01:55:28,400 --> 01:55:30,640
Speaker 9: been dismissed but even the ones that have gone.

1882
01:55:30,480 --> 01:55:31,080
Speaker 5: To trial they.

1883
01:55:31,120 --> 01:55:33,880
Speaker 9: Have lost and that is not SOMETHING that i think

1884
01:55:33,920 --> 01:55:38,440
Speaker 9: we're used to seeing in federal. Criminal, cases generally when

1885
01:55:38,480 --> 01:55:41,520
Speaker 9: someone's charged in federal criminal court is being and, was explaining,

1886
01:55:42,000 --> 01:55:44,240
Speaker 9: you know so few of the cases go to trial

1887
01:55:44,400 --> 01:55:48,240
Speaker 9: because so many people need to take a, plea bargain

1888
01:55:48,440 --> 01:55:50,760
Speaker 9: and the idea that you're going to get to go

1889
01:55:50,800 --> 01:55:55,440
Speaker 9: to trial and win seems. Very slim that landscape seems

1890
01:55:55,440 --> 01:55:58,280
Speaker 9: to be changing, as well AND so i think what

1891
01:55:58,320 --> 01:56:00,840
Speaker 9: we are seeing in this moment is the people, are

1892
01:56:00,840 --> 01:56:05,640
Speaker 9: resisting they are continuing to do This Important first, amendment

1893
01:56:05,720 --> 01:56:08,480
Speaker 9: work and they are not, being intimidated they are not.

1894
01:56:08,600 --> 01:56:11,080
Speaker 9: Being DETERRED and, i think, you know all of you

1895
01:56:11,200 --> 01:56:14,600
Speaker 9: and your neighbors and your friends and Folks in minnesota

1896
01:56:14,680 --> 01:56:17,360
Speaker 9: have proven that, to us AND so i think we're

1897
01:56:17,360 --> 01:56:19,400
Speaker 9: going to continue to see this type of work. Go

1898
01:56:19,560 --> 01:56:23,200
Speaker 9: on i'm not seeing this level of surges at this

1899
01:56:23,360 --> 01:56:26,840
Speaker 9: point Ongoing. POST minnesota i don't know if we're going

1900
01:56:26,880 --> 01:56:29,760
Speaker 9: to see a return to this prior to. THE election

1901
01:56:30,400 --> 01:56:32,000
Speaker 9: i don't know if we're going to see this If

1902
01:56:32,040 --> 01:56:36,960
Speaker 9: The insurrection act, Is invoked but RIGHT now i don't

1903
01:56:37,040 --> 01:56:39,880
Speaker 9: see this ongoing surge activity in terms of.

1904
01:56:39,880 --> 01:56:41,720
Speaker 5: Immigration enforcement it's an.

1905
01:56:41,800 --> 01:56:45,400
Speaker 4: Interesting point the thing you hear about federal criminal cases

1906
01:56:45,480 --> 01:56:48,320
Speaker 4: is like the federal government can be investigating somebody, for

1907
01:56:48,480 --> 01:56:50,680
Speaker 4: years so by the time that they bring, the charges

1908
01:56:51,040 --> 01:56:53,120
Speaker 4: they have such a strong case against them it makes

1909
01:56:53,160 --> 01:56:56,120
Speaker 4: it impossible to win versus what at least we've Seen

1910
01:56:56,160 --> 01:56:58,240
Speaker 4: in minnesota where it felt like some of these cases

1911
01:56:58,280 --> 01:57:02,000
Speaker 4: were being brought like pretty quickly and kind, of sloppily

1912
01:57:02,040 --> 01:57:04,720
Speaker 4: which is just a little bit of a different maybe

1913
01:57:04,720 --> 01:57:07,680
Speaker 4: a little bit more hopeful for people, in movements even

1914
01:57:07,760 --> 01:57:13,240
Speaker 4: though there's still are federal judges and procedural limitations that

1915
01:57:13,280 --> 01:57:17,400
Speaker 4: make federal cases scarier and worse to go. Through, oftentimes

1916
01:57:17,960 --> 01:57:20,840
Speaker 4: now for a depressing thing that, is happening let's talk

1917
01:57:20,880 --> 01:57:25,320
Speaker 4: about prairieland the recent trial and guilty verdict that recently.

1918
01:57:25,640 --> 01:57:28,720
Speaker 4: Came down i'd love to hear how you all are

1919
01:57:28,880 --> 01:57:32,840
Speaker 4: thinking about this case and what it means for movements.

1920
01:57:32,880 --> 01:57:37,520
Speaker 12: GOING forward i think, right now the defense just filed post.

1921
01:57:37,560 --> 01:57:40,160
Speaker 12: Trial briefing i've looked at some, of IT and i

1922
01:57:40,200 --> 01:57:43,400
Speaker 12: think there are a lot of really, strong arguments, you

1923
01:57:43,440 --> 01:57:48,800
Speaker 12: know for setting aside, the verdict and, you know whether

1924
01:57:48,920 --> 01:57:52,760
Speaker 12: or not the judge agrees with me is of course

1925
01:57:52,840 --> 01:57:56,600
Speaker 12: not a, foregone conclusion but there are a lot of

1926
01:57:56,640 --> 01:58:01,720
Speaker 12: really strong, legal arguments and this really. Isn't over there's

1927
01:58:01,800 --> 01:58:07,960
Speaker 12: so much post trial and post, conviction relief so many

1928
01:58:07,960 --> 01:58:11,000
Speaker 12: appeals that remained to, be done and so much support

1929
01:58:11,080 --> 01:58:13,680
Speaker 12: that can, be offered and so much solidarity that can.

1930
01:58:13,680 --> 01:58:16,160
Speaker 19: BE offered i think that this case.

1931
01:58:16,400 --> 01:58:21,280
Speaker 12: Was unusual it was a departure from what we would

1932
01:58:21,400 --> 01:58:26,640
Speaker 12: typically see in that so many people got pulled into

1933
01:58:26,680 --> 01:58:30,520
Speaker 12: this prosecution under sort of a, conspiracy, theory right a

1934
01:58:30,600 --> 01:58:33,320
Speaker 12: theory that all of the people at what was a

1935
01:58:33,360 --> 01:58:38,360
Speaker 12: really quotitian sort of noise demo in front OF a

1936
01:58:38,840 --> 01:58:45,400
Speaker 12: ic detention facility somehow spontaneously became a conspiracy to do.

1937
01:58:45,600 --> 01:58:50,840
Speaker 12: SERIOUS violence i think this is a little bit like

1938
01:58:51,560 --> 01:58:55,120
Speaker 12: the federal government trying to take a second bite at

1939
01:58:55,120 --> 01:58:58,120
Speaker 12: the apple that they took a run At after trump's

1940
01:58:58,160 --> 01:59:02,120
Speaker 12: first inauguration when they tried to prosecute like almost three

1941
01:59:02,200 --> 01:59:07,200
Speaker 12: hundred people for conspiracy on the basis that they were

1942
01:59:07,200 --> 01:59:11,880
Speaker 12: all dressed in black block and in this environment politically

1943
01:59:11,920 --> 01:59:14,960
Speaker 12: and in that Jurisdiction, in texas it seems like that

1944
01:59:15,040 --> 01:59:19,080
Speaker 12: theory had legs in a way that it DIDN'T. In

1945
01:59:19,600 --> 01:59:24,800
Speaker 12: dc so one of the things that happened in the

1946
01:59:24,880 --> 01:59:30,920
Speaker 12: j twenty case was that the prosecution withheld a bunch of,

1947
01:59:30,960 --> 01:59:37,520
Speaker 12: exculpatory evidence and based ON some foya disclosures that a,

1948
01:59:37,600 --> 01:59:41,400
Speaker 12: journalist obtained it looks like actually a very similar thing

1949
01:59:41,440 --> 01:59:45,720
Speaker 12: may have happened Here With, prairie land where the prosecution

1950
01:59:45,920 --> 01:59:49,600
Speaker 12: may have withheld evidence that would be favorable to.

1951
01:59:49,680 --> 01:59:52,440
Speaker 19: The defense and That's called.

1952
01:59:52,520 --> 01:59:57,120
Speaker 12: Brady material based On A supreme court case about having

1953
01:59:57,160 --> 02:00:01,800
Speaker 12: to turn over information and evidence that would tend to

1954
02:00:02,080 --> 02:00:06,640
Speaker 12: undermine the prosecution or that would be favorable to someone facing.

1955
02:00:06,680 --> 02:00:10,040
Speaker 12: Criminal charges all of that kind, of information if it's

1956
02:00:10,080 --> 02:00:13,200
Speaker 12: in the custody or control of, law enforcement has to

1957
02:00:13,240 --> 02:00:17,080
Speaker 12: be disclosed to the defendants and to. Defense counsel and

1958
02:00:17,160 --> 02:00:20,680
Speaker 12: it appears that there is some material that would fit

1959
02:00:20,760 --> 02:00:24,560
Speaker 12: that bill that was not turned over to the prairieland

1960
02:00:24,600 --> 02:00:28,400
Speaker 12: defendants or. Their attorneys and so you know that as

1961
02:00:28,480 --> 02:00:33,720
Speaker 12: well as an extremely important, argument against, you know letting this,

1962
02:00:33,840 --> 02:00:37,280
Speaker 12: conviction stand and the, trial itself there were just a lot.

1963
02:00:37,320 --> 02:00:42,280
Speaker 12: Of irregularities not only was this an, unusual prosecution but

1964
02:00:42,440 --> 02:00:48,080
Speaker 12: it was characterized. By irregularities very, early on the judge

1965
02:00:48,080 --> 02:00:51,160
Speaker 12: declared a mistrial on the basis OF a t shirt

1966
02:00:51,200 --> 02:00:54,720
Speaker 12: that one of the defense attorneys was. Wearing right there

1967
02:00:54,760 --> 02:00:58,160
Speaker 12: seemed to be a lot of conflict among. The jurors

1968
02:00:58,760 --> 02:01:03,640
Speaker 12: there were all kinds of inconsistent statements among the witnesses for.

1969
02:01:03,680 --> 02:01:03,800
Speaker 20: The.

1970
02:01:03,840 --> 02:01:07,280
Speaker 12: Prosecution right so there's all kinds of things that happen

1971
02:01:07,360 --> 02:01:10,560
Speaker 12: during this trial that do give me a certain amount

1972
02:01:10,560 --> 02:01:15,480
Speaker 12: of Hope That prairie land is the exception and not.

1973
02:01:15,640 --> 02:01:19,720
Speaker 12: The rule, YOU know i think the government is, boundary

1974
02:01:19,840 --> 02:01:24,240
Speaker 12: Testing but i'm not convinced that they're going to find

1975
02:01:25,000 --> 02:01:31,320
Speaker 12: that this is an effective approach to prosecuting, protest although

1976
02:01:31,360 --> 02:01:33,840
Speaker 12: OF course i want to be, very clear it's been

1977
02:01:34,120 --> 02:01:35,520
Speaker 12: devastating for.

1978
02:01:35,640 --> 02:01:39,720
Speaker 4: THIS community i hear that there's some uncertainty about the

1979
02:01:39,800 --> 02:01:43,680
Speaker 4: long term impacts, Of this and with that, in mind

1980
02:01:43,840 --> 02:01:46,360
Speaker 4: is there anything any of you just want to add

1981
02:01:46,400 --> 02:01:50,560
Speaker 4: what you think movements should be paying attention to here. Going,

1982
02:01:50,640 --> 02:01:56,080
Speaker 4: forward also it's connection to the expansion of the fundamentally

1983
02:01:56,160 --> 02:02:01,040
Speaker 4: racist or on terror, legal regime and it's turn towards

1984
02:02:01,080 --> 02:02:02,720
Speaker 4: activist communities in.

1985
02:02:02,840 --> 02:02:06,840
Speaker 17: NEW ways i can jump in, And start i'm really

1986
02:02:06,880 --> 02:02:09,600
Speaker 17: glad you brought up the War on terror as part

1987
02:02:09,600 --> 02:02:10,240
Speaker 17: of the history.

1988
02:02:10,280 --> 02:02:12,120
Speaker 18: Of this and, YOU know I think i mentioned.

1989
02:02:11,800 --> 02:02:15,080
Speaker 17: Previously a lot of these tactics that, we see like we've,

1990
02:02:15,080 --> 02:02:16,920
Speaker 17: all said are, not new and much of it has

1991
02:02:16,960 --> 02:02:19,680
Speaker 17: been tested on communities, of color the way that war

1992
02:02:19,720 --> 02:02:22,200
Speaker 17: weapons are tested on the battlefield and then brought to

1993
02:02:22,240 --> 02:02:26,160
Speaker 17: our domestic police, forces here same thing, with, Tactics right

1994
02:02:26,200 --> 02:02:29,160
Speaker 17: and so the war on terror like primarily Against the

1995
02:02:29,240 --> 02:02:32,160
Speaker 17: muslim community In the muslim world a lot Of non

1996
02:02:32,200 --> 02:02:36,040
Speaker 17: arab Countries like Afghanistan, and pakistan, you know, of course

1997
02:02:36,160 --> 02:02:38,360
Speaker 17: is a, racist endeavor but it does sort of like

1998
02:02:38,400 --> 02:02:40,160
Speaker 17: give us a picture of the larger sort of like

1999
02:02:40,240 --> 02:02:43,640
Speaker 17: colonial project of what, you know what. We're FACING but

2000
02:02:43,720 --> 02:02:45,520
Speaker 17: i think there's also just a lot then that we

2001
02:02:45,560 --> 02:02:48,800
Speaker 17: can take from history and take to our movements and

2002
02:02:48,920 --> 02:02:51,960
Speaker 17: LEARNED from, i think while, it's DEVASTATING and i AGREE

2003
02:02:52,000 --> 02:02:54,400
Speaker 17: with moa Think the prairie, line conviction there's a lot

2004
02:02:54,440 --> 02:02:58,240
Speaker 17: of bases, for appeal including being prohibited from putting on

2005
02:02:58,280 --> 02:03:01,600
Speaker 17: a self defense argument or friends of, OTHERS argument i

2006
02:03:01,640 --> 02:03:04,800
Speaker 17: think we can learn a lot from the way that

2007
02:03:05,080 --> 02:03:07,840
Speaker 17: our movements were targeted in, this, way right where like,

2008
02:03:08,240 --> 02:03:09,960
Speaker 17: you know a lot of it was from text messages,

2009
02:03:09,960 --> 02:03:12,080
Speaker 17: in SIGNAL and i think it's just like it's also

2010
02:03:12,080 --> 02:03:14,600
Speaker 17: a really important thing To note while signals are very

2011
02:03:14,600 --> 02:03:18,240
Speaker 17: important app, to communicate it's, not, bulletproof right and it's

2012
02:03:18,240 --> 02:03:20,360
Speaker 17: only as secure as you, Make it and it is

2013
02:03:20,400 --> 02:03:22,640
Speaker 17: still something that's, in writing AND so I think i

2014
02:03:22,680 --> 02:03:24,680
Speaker 17: always try to remind, folks like if you can open

2015
02:03:24,720 --> 02:03:27,440
Speaker 17: your phone right now and you can see your, signal

2016
02:03:27,480 --> 02:03:30,600
Speaker 17: messages someone else, can't. Do RIGHT so i think a

2017
02:03:30,600 --> 02:03:32,800
Speaker 17: lot of people are under the impression that is. Completely

2018
02:03:32,800 --> 02:03:36,160
Speaker 17: BULLETPROOF and i think it's also calls the, question, of like,

2019
02:03:37,040 --> 02:03:39,800
Speaker 17: you know how, we organize and also like does everything

2020
02:03:39,840 --> 02:03:40,800
Speaker 17: we do need to.

2021
02:03:40,720 --> 02:03:41,320
Speaker 18: Go and text?

2022
02:03:41,400 --> 02:03:43,560
Speaker 17: Or writing, you know is there more value to like

2023
02:03:43,600 --> 02:03:45,600
Speaker 17: actually talking, with people because a lot of things that

2024
02:03:45,600 --> 02:03:48,560
Speaker 17: were SAID casually i think in writing look much worse

2025
02:03:48,600 --> 02:03:50,400
Speaker 17: and much more serious than if you would just have

2026
02:03:50,440 --> 02:03:54,400
Speaker 17: a conversation talking, ideas through which again is an elder

2027
02:03:54,560 --> 02:03:56,080
Speaker 17: idea in the nineties and we didn't have.

2028
02:03:56,760 --> 02:04:00,040
Speaker 12: CELL phones i want to kind of piggyback on some

2029
02:04:00,120 --> 02:04:04,560
Speaker 12: thing you started, to say which is you said, these

2030
02:04:04,800 --> 02:04:07,720
Speaker 12: tactics these strategies have been tested on communities, of COLOR

2031
02:04:08,640 --> 02:04:12,520
Speaker 12: and i think the significance of, that, statement like we

2032
02:04:12,640 --> 02:04:16,760
Speaker 12: can't overestimate how important it is to, understand that and,

2033
02:04:17,080 --> 02:04:20,040
Speaker 12: you know you can watch it happening in. REAL time,

2034
02:04:20,400 --> 02:04:22,960
Speaker 12: i mean obviously we've seen this kind of state repression

2035
02:04:23,200 --> 02:04:27,880
Speaker 12: right since the days of, like, abolitionists right but we

2036
02:04:28,000 --> 02:04:33,360
Speaker 12: saw it really becoming very salient During the nixon administration,

2037
02:04:34,120 --> 02:04:37,960
Speaker 12: and thereafter and, you Know The Black panther Party And

2038
02:04:38,000 --> 02:04:41,960
Speaker 12: Black liberation army were subjected. To this black communities were

2039
02:04:42,000 --> 02:04:45,440
Speaker 12: then subjected, to This And puerto rican independence communities were subjected,

2040
02:04:45,480 --> 02:04:47,920
Speaker 12: to this and you can see it all the way through,

2041
02:04:47,960 --> 02:04:51,920
Speaker 12: the eighties even with like the so called, gang legislation

2042
02:04:52,160 --> 02:04:53,320
Speaker 12: right targeting of quote.

2043
02:04:53,360 --> 02:04:57,000
Speaker 4: Gang activity when you say these communities have been subjected,

2044
02:04:57,040 --> 02:04:58,920
Speaker 4: to this what do? You mean what's?

2045
02:04:58,960 --> 02:05:04,240
Speaker 12: The, this sorry have been subjected to have been targeted

2046
02:05:04,960 --> 02:05:12,800
Speaker 12: and surveiled and criminalized by the state for what we

2047
02:05:12,840 --> 02:05:20,120
Speaker 12: would understand To Be first amendment, protected, identities, beliefs associations, and,

2048
02:05:20,240 --> 02:05:25,960
Speaker 12: Activities right and so people have been targeted for surveillance

2049
02:05:26,160 --> 02:05:29,960
Speaker 12: and criminalization on the basis of their, political beliefs on

2050
02:05:30,040 --> 02:05:35,920
Speaker 12: the basis of their associations, and activities in a way

2051
02:05:36,080 --> 02:05:42,480
Speaker 12: that we now see being recuperated against more explicitly political.

2052
02:05:43,480 --> 02:05:49,160
Speaker 12: Protest movements and we saw this During The no dapple

2053
02:05:49,240 --> 02:05:52,120
Speaker 12: Movement At, standing rock we saw the revival of a

2054
02:05:52,160 --> 02:05:53,600
Speaker 12: federal charge called.

2055
02:05:53,720 --> 02:05:55,120
Speaker 19: CIVIL disorder i.

2056
02:05:55,120 --> 02:05:57,080
Speaker 12: Think the last time it had been used had been

2057
02:05:57,160 --> 02:06:00,880
Speaker 12: during the Standoff at wounded me in nineteen.

2058
02:06:00,920 --> 02:06:02,320
Speaker 5: Seventy, four right.

2059
02:06:02,280 --> 02:06:06,560
Speaker 12: It was like a federal charge that seems like it

2060
02:06:06,640 --> 02:06:13,200
Speaker 12: was only used against people struggling for. Indigenous sovereignty and

2061
02:06:13,240 --> 02:06:16,160
Speaker 12: then we saw it being used again During the floyd

2062
02:06:16,240 --> 02:06:18,880
Speaker 12: uprisings in, twenty twenty and that was the first time

2063
02:06:18,920 --> 02:06:22,520
Speaker 12: we saw it really being used against people who were

2064
02:06:22,600 --> 02:06:25,640
Speaker 12: not explicitly involved in struggles for.

2065
02:06:25,680 --> 02:06:29,080
Speaker 17: Indigenous sovereignty to give like, an example, you know in

2066
02:06:29,160 --> 02:06:31,680
Speaker 17: terms of like what strategies are tested On the muslim

2067
02:06:31,880 --> 02:06:34,960
Speaker 17: community or communities. Of color the case that a lot

2068
02:06:35,040 --> 02:06:37,520
Speaker 17: of us within the movement at least are still haunted

2069
02:06:37,560 --> 02:06:40,600
Speaker 17: by is Against The Holy land foundation And The Holy, land,

2070
02:06:40,640 --> 02:06:44,200
Speaker 17: Five right and it's shocking now to realize how many

2071
02:06:44,280 --> 02:06:47,600
Speaker 17: people outside of our circles don't actually really know about

2072
02:06:47,600 --> 02:06:50,760
Speaker 17: that case or even like what material. SUPPORT is i

2073
02:06:50,800 --> 02:06:53,480
Speaker 17: think only when it became not much bigger and being

2074
02:06:53,560 --> 02:06:56,640
Speaker 17: weaponized in more creative ways are people sort.

2075
02:06:56,640 --> 02:06:59,560
Speaker 18: Of realizing but, you know back for back.

2076
02:06:59,360 --> 02:07:01,480
Speaker 17: In the day When The Holy land foundation and founders

2077
02:07:01,480 --> 02:07:05,080
Speaker 17: were targeted and, then convicted and their convictions were upheld

2078
02:07:05,600 --> 02:07:08,840
Speaker 17: for just raising money for families in. A gaza it

2079
02:07:08,960 --> 02:07:13,440
Speaker 17: was so devastating and crushing to communities, into organizing but

2080
02:07:13,520 --> 02:07:16,400
Speaker 17: it really DIDN'T get i think the broad attention that it,

2081
02:07:16,400 --> 02:07:18,560
Speaker 17: should have right or this other targeting of like we're

2082
02:07:18,600 --> 02:07:21,680
Speaker 17: using informants In the muslim community just going back, through

2083
02:07:21,720 --> 02:07:24,520
Speaker 17: HISTORY and i think we can learn from. Them NOW but,

2084
02:07:24,600 --> 02:07:27,720
Speaker 17: i think, you know if we had had more attention

2085
02:07:27,840 --> 02:07:30,480
Speaker 17: on those cases than what, you know communities of color were,

2086
02:07:30,480 --> 02:07:32,920
Speaker 17: GOING through i think there's a lot we can learn

2087
02:07:32,960 --> 02:07:36,720
Speaker 17: from or could have organized. Stronger against having now seen

2088
02:07:37,120 --> 02:07:38,560
Speaker 17: what is doing to communities, OF.

2089
02:07:38,560 --> 02:07:41,200
Speaker 9: Color i think if there's a lesson for us to

2090
02:07:41,280 --> 02:07:43,480
Speaker 9: learn from this is that, you know post nine, to

2091
02:07:43,520 --> 02:07:47,760
Speaker 9: eleven there was this massive Persecution of muslim communities and

2092
02:07:47,800 --> 02:07:50,640
Speaker 9: we really saw this apparatus of the material support for

2093
02:07:50,720 --> 02:07:53,920
Speaker 9: terrorism being used against individuals and as, you say being

2094
02:07:53,960 --> 02:07:57,400
Speaker 9: not often in isolation. Without support and part of that's

2095
02:07:57,440 --> 02:08:00,920
Speaker 9: because when you get charged with material support of, you

2096
02:08:00,960 --> 02:08:05,520
Speaker 9: know not only are you facing massive criminal, like sentencing

2097
02:08:06,160 --> 02:08:09,440
Speaker 9: but you know your organization is being, Taken down you're

2098
02:08:09,440 --> 02:08:12,520
Speaker 9: getting debateked you cannot you know be able to hold,

2099
02:08:12,600 --> 02:08:15,960
Speaker 9: financial funds and what happens is people don't want to

2100
02:08:15,960 --> 02:08:21,000
Speaker 9: get ensnared in that. Criminal prosecution that often people don't

2101
02:08:21,000 --> 02:08:24,200
Speaker 9: come out and make those. Solidarity statements you become. Essentially

2102
02:08:24,280 --> 02:08:28,120
Speaker 9: RADIOACTIVE and, i think, you Know what i'm hopeful is

2103
02:08:28,160 --> 02:08:32,720
Speaker 9: that we can find new ways to resist this material

2104
02:08:32,760 --> 02:08:36,040
Speaker 9: support for, terrorism apparatus which is being wielded in WAYS

2105
02:08:36,080 --> 02:08:39,160
Speaker 9: that i think are unjust and unfair and illegal.

2106
02:08:39,240 --> 02:08:40,800
Speaker 5: And WRONG and i hope.

2107
02:08:40,680 --> 02:08:42,880
Speaker 9: There's ways that we can think about how we're going to,

2108
02:08:42,960 --> 02:08:46,040
Speaker 9: counter that whether it's In The, Prairie land texas case

2109
02:08:46,120 --> 02:08:48,400
Speaker 9: or in other cases. AS well i think we need

2110
02:08:48,400 --> 02:08:50,400
Speaker 9: to get back to the roots of, that law and

2111
02:08:50,440 --> 02:08:53,240
Speaker 9: we need to think about really who's, it serving who's,

2112
02:08:53,280 --> 02:08:56,000
Speaker 9: it protecting and who is, it destroying so that we

2113
02:08:56,040 --> 02:08:57,880
Speaker 9: can really rectify the harms that have come.

2114
02:08:57,880 --> 02:08:58,320
Speaker 7: From it.

2115
02:09:09,280 --> 02:09:13,000
Speaker 4: Material support for terrorism chargers are not the only uncommon

2116
02:09:13,080 --> 02:09:17,280
Speaker 4: charges for seeing being brought against anti ice protesters Here.

2117
02:09:17,280 --> 02:09:20,440
Speaker 4: In minneapolis we've also seen the use Of The face

2118
02:09:20,520 --> 02:09:25,800
Speaker 4: act and federal threat and cyber. Stocking charges just, to

2119
02:09:25,920 --> 02:09:29,440
Speaker 4: note the use Of The face act is Specifically Against

2120
02:09:29,520 --> 02:09:33,000
Speaker 4: Black lives matter protesters here who staged a protest in,

2121
02:09:33,520 --> 02:09:36,080
Speaker 4: a CHURCH and i don't think expected to have this

2122
02:09:36,880 --> 02:09:40,560
Speaker 4: random act that nobody knew existed come out and now

2123
02:09:40,560 --> 02:09:46,000
Speaker 4: they're facing super. Serious charges i'd love just for listeners

2124
02:09:46,000 --> 02:09:48,560
Speaker 4: to understand a little bit what these. Charges are if

2125
02:09:48,560 --> 02:09:51,240
Speaker 4: there's other unusual charges you've seen around, the country what

2126
02:09:51,280 --> 02:09:54,200
Speaker 4: do people actually need to understand? About them people who

2127
02:09:54,240 --> 02:09:57,440
Speaker 4: are going out. To protest how much is it important

2128
02:09:57,480 --> 02:10:00,560
Speaker 4: to know about these different things that can.

2129
02:10:00,600 --> 02:10:02,280
Speaker 7: Pop up So The.

2130
02:10:02,280 --> 02:10:05,520
Speaker 12: Face act is a piece of legislation that initially was

2131
02:10:06,120 --> 02:10:12,280
Speaker 12: being pushed for by reproductive, justice groups and it was

2132
02:10:12,280 --> 02:10:17,760
Speaker 12: supposed to criminalize people interfering with folks who were attempting

2133
02:10:17,760 --> 02:10:22,560
Speaker 12: to access reproductive health care because at the time that

2134
02:10:23,280 --> 02:10:28,160
Speaker 12: it was being, lobbied for there was a pretty active,

2135
02:10:29,040 --> 02:10:34,120
Speaker 12: pro life, you know anti choice movement that was physically

2136
02:10:35,080 --> 02:10:39,440
Speaker 12: making it difficult for people who are seeking reproductive healthcare

2137
02:10:39,720 --> 02:10:47,000
Speaker 12: to gain access. To clinics and at, the time people

2138
02:10:47,760 --> 02:10:52,880
Speaker 12: who work in criminal defense and who work with criminalized populations, Were,

2139
02:10:52,960 --> 02:10:57,680
Speaker 12: like hey this legislation is going to be mobilized against

2140
02:10:58,040 --> 02:11:02,840
Speaker 12: other kinds, of protesters and it's probably going to be

2141
02:11:02,960 --> 02:11:08,200
Speaker 12: primarily dangerous to people who are perceived as antagonistic to, State.

2142
02:11:07,960 --> 02:11:10,840
Speaker 19: Interests and what do?

2143
02:11:10,920 --> 02:11:14,840
Speaker 12: You know that is what has happened because one of,

2144
02:11:14,880 --> 02:11:17,640
Speaker 12: the things one of the concessions that was made in

2145
02:11:17,880 --> 02:11:20,920
Speaker 12: order to get that piece of, legislation passed, was that

2146
02:11:21,000 --> 02:11:26,520
Speaker 12: in addition to criminalizing obstructing access to reproductive, health clinics

2147
02:11:27,040 --> 02:11:33,440
Speaker 12: it also criminalized obstructing access to so called places of

2148
02:11:33,440 --> 02:11:38,920
Speaker 12: worship for specifically people who are attempting to access those

2149
02:11:39,160 --> 02:11:45,560
Speaker 12: places in order to Engage In first amendment protected. Religious

2150
02:11:46,040 --> 02:11:50,600
Speaker 12: expression so now one of the things we're seeing is

2151
02:11:51,480 --> 02:11:57,200
Speaker 12: people using their churches or their synagogues to do things

2152
02:11:57,360 --> 02:12:03,440
Speaker 12: like have political meetings that are not particularly, religious meetings

2153
02:12:04,280 --> 02:12:08,680
Speaker 12: or to do things like sell real Estate in palestine

2154
02:12:08,800 --> 02:12:11,280
Speaker 12: to which they do not have title and cannot.

2155
02:12:11,440 --> 02:12:14,040
Speaker 19: Lawfully sell and then when.

2156
02:12:13,880 --> 02:12:19,360
Speaker 12: People show up to protest, those activities the federal government

2157
02:12:20,120 --> 02:12:23,480
Speaker 12: tries to charge them with violations Of The face act.

2158
02:12:24,200 --> 02:12:28,480
Speaker 4: In like the. Simplest way what do people need? To,

2159
02:12:28,560 --> 02:12:31,440
Speaker 4: know like there's one outcome here that, everyone's like oh,

2160
02:12:31,440 --> 02:12:33,920
Speaker 4: MY god i didn't know the protesting in a church

2161
02:12:33,960 --> 02:12:36,440
Speaker 4: could get me federal charges for like handing out some

2162
02:12:36,440 --> 02:12:39,400
Speaker 4: flyers and using. A megaphone what ELSE don't? I know about,

2163
02:12:39,440 --> 02:12:42,080
Speaker 4: other risks the random acts that can. Come up how

2164
02:12:42,120 --> 02:12:45,040
Speaker 4: do you talk to people about that who are thinking about. Taking,

2165
02:12:45,080 --> 02:12:46,360
Speaker 4: ACTION yeah.

2166
02:12:46,240 --> 02:12:49,040
Speaker 9: I think that that's, the again the changing landscape here

2167
02:12:49,240 --> 02:12:52,440
Speaker 9: and seeing the exponential rise of. FEDERAL charges i think

2168
02:12:52,480 --> 02:12:55,800
Speaker 9: that when organizers are thinking about the actions, THEY'RE pursuing

2169
02:12:56,360 --> 02:12:58,760
Speaker 9: i think they need to talk to attorneys and legal

2170
02:12:58,800 --> 02:13:01,680
Speaker 9: workers and others who have both an understanding of what

2171
02:13:01,720 --> 02:13:04,000
Speaker 9: their local laws and state, laws are but what the

2172
02:13:04,000 --> 02:13:07,040
Speaker 9: federal laws are. As well, AND again i think that's

2173
02:13:07,080 --> 02:13:08,200
Speaker 9: just a different changing of.

2174
02:13:08,200 --> 02:13:10,880
Speaker 5: THE landscape i do want, to say.

2175
02:13:10,600 --> 02:13:13,160
Speaker 9: You know there's a lot of important organizing that it

2176
02:13:13,280 --> 02:13:17,440
Speaker 9: has happened in churches and synagogues, and TEMPLES and i

2177
02:13:17,480 --> 02:13:20,440
Speaker 9: don't want to, Discount THAT but i do also want

2178
02:13:20,440 --> 02:13:24,560
Speaker 9: TO say i think again we're seeing a misuse of,

2179
02:13:24,600 --> 02:13:25,520
Speaker 9: this law.

2180
02:13:25,760 --> 02:13:27,560
Speaker 5: Particularly The, face act and, it's very.

2181
02:13:27,720 --> 02:13:31,160
Speaker 9: Very scary but, YOU know i think that there are

2182
02:13:31,200 --> 02:13:36,160
Speaker 9: some really incredible lawyers and Organizers in MINNESOTA who i

2183
02:13:36,160 --> 02:13:38,240
Speaker 9: think are fears and who are going to fight this to,

2184
02:13:38,320 --> 02:13:41,800
Speaker 9: the END and i have hoped that they will come. Out,

2185
02:13:41,880 --> 02:13:43,840
Speaker 9: unscathed YEAH.

2186
02:13:43,520 --> 02:13:47,600
Speaker 12: And i do want to clarify it isn't just protesting at.

2187
02:13:47,600 --> 02:13:50,680
Speaker 12: A church they have to be able to allege that

2188
02:13:50,800 --> 02:13:54,400
Speaker 12: people were by force or threat, of force or by,

2189
02:13:54,440 --> 02:14:00,520
Speaker 12: physical obstruction, intentionally, injuring intimidating in interfear with people who

2190
02:14:00,520 --> 02:14:04,400
Speaker 12: are trying to get healthcare or people who are trying.

2191
02:14:04,440 --> 02:14:08,880
Speaker 12: To worship so it isn't simply having a protest at

2192
02:14:08,960 --> 02:14:14,120
Speaker 12: a place. Of worship That Remains first amendment. PROTECTED behavior

2193
02:14:14,520 --> 02:14:16,320
Speaker 12: i think in addition With The, face act it has a.

2194
02:14:16,360 --> 02:14:20,120
Speaker 12: Civil component so again like, material support it also has a,

2195
02:14:20,160 --> 02:14:23,800
Speaker 12: civil component and many people are getting civilly sued and

2196
02:14:23,880 --> 02:14:26,320
Speaker 12: so a lot Of these zionist groups have also brought

2197
02:14:26,720 --> 02:14:29,880
Speaker 12: suits based On The face act for people protesting the

2198
02:14:29,880 --> 02:14:33,520
Speaker 12: illegal Sale of palestinian land inside a synagogue and that's

2199
02:14:33,880 --> 02:14:37,200
Speaker 12: a breach international law and so many. Other crimes and

2200
02:14:37,280 --> 02:14:40,240
Speaker 12: just also to think of just the disgusting use of,

2201
02:14:40,240 --> 02:14:41,959
Speaker 12: this law and you think of sort of the historical

2202
02:14:42,000 --> 02:14:45,320
Speaker 12: targeting of black churches and like still to, this day

2203
02:14:45,520 --> 02:14:49,040
Speaker 12: like it's just such a slap in. The face, but

2204
02:14:49,400 --> 02:14:52,560
Speaker 12: REGARDLESS but i think also alive to your, question, about

2205
02:14:53,000 --> 02:14:54,840
Speaker 12: yeah like a lot of this can catch people off

2206
02:14:54,880 --> 02:14:56,800
Speaker 12: CARD like i didn't what, YOU know i, didn't know

2207
02:14:56,840 --> 02:14:59,040
Speaker 12: and even, you know even if, they know they really,

2208
02:14:59,120 --> 02:15:02,160
Speaker 12: can't prove, you know access that they might still try

2209
02:15:02,200 --> 02:15:04,640
Speaker 12: to either sue you or. PROSECUTE you i think the

2210
02:15:04,720 --> 02:15:06,640
Speaker 12: thing is like none of us are ever going to

2211
02:15:06,680 --> 02:15:08,560
Speaker 12: know all the laws that are on the books and

2212
02:15:08,640 --> 02:15:11,520
Speaker 12: the way that they might creatively try to. Use, them so,

2213
02:15:11,960 --> 02:15:14,200
Speaker 12: YOU know i don't want people to get paralynes into

2214
02:15:14,240 --> 02:15:16,879
Speaker 12: not doing anything because it's, it is, you. Know scary

2215
02:15:16,920 --> 02:15:19,320
Speaker 12: there's just like you, don't know, you know what what

2216
02:15:19,400 --> 02:15:21,000
Speaker 12: laws are out there that can, be used you know

2217
02:15:21,080 --> 02:15:22,920
Speaker 12: in some way now you know a new way. Against

2218
02:15:23,000 --> 02:15:25,600
Speaker 12: YOU but i Think what joey and mo both have

2219
02:15:25,640 --> 02:15:29,680
Speaker 12: said is right about connecting to lawyers and, legal workers

2220
02:15:30,360 --> 02:15:33,320
Speaker 12: just being tight on, our organizing knowing what our, rights

2221
02:15:33,360 --> 02:15:34,560
Speaker 12: are and knowing when you what to.

2222
02:15:34,520 --> 02:15:36,640
Speaker 17: Do when you encounter, law enforcement which is nothing and.

2223
02:15:36,680 --> 02:15:39,480
Speaker 17: Say nothing, You know like all OF that i think is,

2224
02:15:39,520 --> 02:15:42,680
Speaker 17: like hopefully like universally at least like minimizes the harm

2225
02:15:43,000 --> 02:15:43,600
Speaker 17: that can happen.

2226
02:15:43,640 --> 02:15:45,880
Speaker 18: To you it's, not bulletproof right as, we know it's

2227
02:15:45,920 --> 02:15:46,320
Speaker 18: not meant.

2228
02:15:46,360 --> 02:15:49,240
Speaker 17: To BE but, i, think like, YOU know i don't

2229
02:15:49,240 --> 02:15:51,040
Speaker 17: want folks to like be like AND now i DON'T,

2230
02:15:51,040 --> 02:15:53,160
Speaker 17: know x like this other random thing, you know could

2231
02:15:53,200 --> 02:15:56,400
Speaker 17: be brought, against me and that may happen and continue,

2232
02:15:56,400 --> 02:15:58,760
Speaker 17: to happen but that's what we, all do right like

2233
02:15:58,800 --> 02:16:00,520
Speaker 17: sort of like with this message, of hope is that

2234
02:16:00,600 --> 02:16:02,480
Speaker 17: what we do is, we fight and like we, have

2235
02:16:02,600 --> 02:16:05,680
Speaker 17: fought like, State repression like our answers, have thought, State

2236
02:16:05,720 --> 02:16:07,920
Speaker 17: repression we're not going. To stop they're going to, keep

2237
02:16:07,960 --> 02:16:11,080
Speaker 17: adapting and so. Are we this resistance is not going,

2238
02:16:11,120 --> 02:16:13,160
Speaker 17: to stop even if we have to figure out a

2239
02:16:13,160 --> 02:16:14,640
Speaker 17: new way to resist based on what.

2240
02:16:14,720 --> 02:16:18,320
Speaker 4: Comes next to ask, you all as a final question

2241
02:16:19,000 --> 02:16:23,880
Speaker 4: with your repression forecasting hats on anything you want to

2242
02:16:23,920 --> 02:16:27,800
Speaker 4: add about how movements can prepare to meet this repression

2243
02:16:27,800 --> 02:16:29,920
Speaker 4: that is already happening and that which is.

2244
02:16:29,960 --> 02:16:33,680
Speaker 12: TO come i can't see, the FUTURE as i tell

2245
02:16:33,720 --> 02:16:37,360
Speaker 12: my clients, EVERY day i can't see.

2246
02:16:37,360 --> 02:16:39,960
Speaker 19: THE future i am but, a lawyer not.

2247
02:16:40,000 --> 02:16:43,680
Speaker 12: A WIZARD what i can tell you is we know

2248
02:16:43,959 --> 02:16:48,280
Speaker 12: a lot about what the state has done in, the

2249
02:16:48,320 --> 02:16:52,920
Speaker 12: past and we have a lot of good models to.

2250
02:16:53,040 --> 02:16:58,640
Speaker 12: Look to we have a rich ancestry of resistance and of,

2251
02:16:58,720 --> 02:17:02,240
Speaker 12: movement lawyering of movement lawyers who know how to work

2252
02:17:02,560 --> 02:17:07,920
Speaker 12: in community with people who are doing the. Heavy lifting

2253
02:17:09,320 --> 02:17:14,160
Speaker 12: we have made it this Far as, Bina said we're

2254
02:17:14,200 --> 02:17:18,040
Speaker 12: just going to continue. To FIGHT and i do hold

2255
02:17:18,040 --> 02:17:21,760
Speaker 12: out a lot, of hope NOT because i have any

2256
02:17:21,959 --> 02:17:25,959
Speaker 12: faith in the law itself or believe that justice is

2257
02:17:26,040 --> 02:17:29,879
Speaker 12: on the table in, our courts but because we are

2258
02:17:29,959 --> 02:17:36,800
Speaker 12: actually really good, at solidarity and because we have over

2259
02:17:36,879 --> 02:17:40,440
Speaker 12: a century of evidence that solidarity is not just good for,

2260
02:17:40,560 --> 02:17:42,280
Speaker 12: our communities it's.

2261
02:17:42,480 --> 02:17:45,720
Speaker 19: Legally effective. That's it don't talk.

2262
02:17:45,760 --> 02:17:49,040
Speaker 17: TO cops i might go with the cheesy answer, ROUND

2263
02:17:49,720 --> 02:17:52,800
Speaker 17: that i think what communities and movements can do to

2264
02:17:52,840 --> 02:17:56,560
Speaker 17: prepare is a lot, of this right is like coming together,

2265
02:17:56,680 --> 02:18:00,640
Speaker 17: and strategizing especially amongst, the lawyers so uplifting what mo

2266
02:18:00,800 --> 02:18:03,840
Speaker 17: said is like showing solidarity with communities and lawyers.

2267
02:18:03,840 --> 02:18:06,800
Speaker 18: Showing UP but i, think also And like Joey.

2268
02:18:06,560 --> 02:18:08,760
Speaker 17: And moly really model this for me as well as

2269
02:18:09,080 --> 02:18:11,879
Speaker 17: lawyers showing up with each other and like, working together

2270
02:18:11,920 --> 02:18:14,400
Speaker 17: because it is a lonely fight a lot of times

2271
02:18:14,400 --> 02:18:16,879
Speaker 17: being a lawyer when you're not in a circle of

2272
02:18:16,920 --> 02:18:20,400
Speaker 17: solidarity or folks of radical politics or who like also

2273
02:18:20,480 --> 02:18:23,920
Speaker 17: believe in including each other, in fighting, you know and doing,

2274
02:18:23,920 --> 02:18:26,720
Speaker 17: this work and that is always going to be a,

2275
02:18:26,760 --> 02:18:29,080
Speaker 17: losing fight right if you're doing it. By yourself you're

2276
02:18:29,080 --> 02:18:31,440
Speaker 17: not doing it with each other and with the communities

2277
02:18:31,480 --> 02:18:34,400
Speaker 17: and with other. Radical lawyers that's not what, we, Do

2278
02:18:34,520 --> 02:18:36,480
Speaker 17: right that's also like not the point of. This work

2279
02:18:36,680 --> 02:18:38,440
Speaker 17: it's like one sole lawyer to fight it.

2280
02:18:38,480 --> 02:18:39,119
Speaker 18: And win it's.

2281
02:18:38,959 --> 02:18:41,640
Speaker 17: About like us doing, it collectively and that's the way that.

2282
02:18:41,680 --> 02:18:45,080
Speaker 17: We win and, you know just uplifting like, You three

2283
02:18:45,480 --> 02:18:48,520
Speaker 17: like just even having this Conversation and Joey and mo

2284
02:18:48,720 --> 02:18:51,080
Speaker 17: for all the work that you do and the work

2285
02:18:51,080 --> 02:18:53,400
Speaker 17: that you. Do inclusively, you know that like gives me

2286
02:18:53,440 --> 02:18:55,080
Speaker 17: HOPE because I know i've had like many.

2287
02:18:55,320 --> 02:18:57,199
Speaker 18: Every, day look i just SIT and i feel. Like alone,

2288
02:18:57,240 --> 02:18:57,560
Speaker 18: i'm like.

2289
02:18:57,520 --> 02:19:00,600
Speaker 17: Oh, My GOD like i have to first with the method.

2290
02:19:00,640 --> 02:19:02,320
Speaker 17: OF hope i have to find some way to. Keep

2291
02:19:02,320 --> 02:19:05,760
Speaker 17: going it's, really hard And sometimes i'm JUST like i.

2292
02:19:05,800 --> 02:19:08,840
Speaker 17: Don't know and then and then we have these conversations

2293
02:19:08,879 --> 02:19:10,959
Speaker 17: and like, all, right yeah like we have those moments

2294
02:19:11,000 --> 02:19:13,840
Speaker 17: we get, you know like we, feel defeated but like

2295
02:19:14,440 --> 02:19:16,280
Speaker 17: we have, each other, you know and like our movements

2296
02:19:16,320 --> 02:19:18,800
Speaker 17: didn't come, this far, you know our ancestors didn't come

2297
02:19:18,840 --> 02:19:20,120
Speaker 17: this far for us to.

2298
02:19:20,120 --> 02:19:21,760
Speaker 18: Give, Up, NOW yeah.

2299
02:19:21,840 --> 02:19:24,800
Speaker 9: I think i would just echo What both bina and mo.

2300
02:19:25,000 --> 02:19:29,279
Speaker 9: HAVE said, i, mean, obviously black indigenous and other communities

2301
02:19:29,280 --> 02:19:34,280
Speaker 9: of color have faced fascism and authoritarianism before and have resisted.

2302
02:19:34,360 --> 02:19:37,440
Speaker 9: And survived this is not the first time in this

2303
02:19:37,520 --> 02:19:39,680
Speaker 9: country we've, seen this and it's likely not.

2304
02:19:39,560 --> 02:19:39,920
Speaker 5: Going to be.

2305
02:19:39,959 --> 02:19:43,680
Speaker 9: The LAST but i, THINK, again i, YOU know i would,

2306
02:19:43,720 --> 02:19:47,000
Speaker 9: say that, you Know As marian, kama says, you know

2307
02:19:47,440 --> 02:19:50,480
Speaker 9: hope is, a discipline and we have to keep pouring

2308
02:19:50,520 --> 02:19:51,920
Speaker 9: into hope and we can't have to.

2309
02:19:52,000 --> 02:19:54,840
Speaker 5: Keep RESISTING so i do have a lot.

2310
02:19:54,720 --> 02:19:56,440
Speaker 9: Of HOPE and I and I and i feel like

2311
02:19:57,280 --> 02:19:59,959
Speaker 9: AGAIN like i want to look at what the organiz

2312
02:20:00,440 --> 02:20:02,879
Speaker 9: have done and how far, we've come even in terms

2313
02:20:02,920 --> 02:20:03,080
Speaker 9: of this.

2314
02:20:03,280 --> 02:20:05,600
Speaker 5: Latest administration, YOU.

2315
02:20:05,560 --> 02:20:09,520
Speaker 9: Know i would say, last year after the onset of,

2316
02:20:09,560 --> 02:20:12,720
Speaker 9: THIS administration i don't think we were seeing a lot,

2317
02:20:12,760 --> 02:20:16,560
Speaker 9: of resistance not a lot of, Public resistance and instead

2318
02:20:16,600 --> 02:20:19,760
Speaker 9: we were seeing law firms cave and deciding to create

2319
02:20:19,800 --> 02:20:23,720
Speaker 9: agreements with. The administration we are seeing educational, institutions come,

2320
02:20:23,879 --> 02:20:25,480
Speaker 9: you know cave and come up with a lot. Of

2321
02:20:25,640 --> 02:20:28,080
Speaker 9: agreements but what we did see is we saw the.

2322
02:20:28,120 --> 02:20:31,560
Speaker 9: People resisting and that HAPPENED in la and that Happened,

2323
02:20:31,560 --> 02:20:35,000
Speaker 9: in chicago and that certainly Happened in Minneapolis And saint Paul.

2324
02:20:35,120 --> 02:20:38,200
Speaker 9: And MINNESOTA so i, take HEART and i think what

2325
02:20:38,240 --> 02:20:40,959
Speaker 9: we need to continue to think about doing is how

2326
02:20:41,040 --> 02:20:44,440
Speaker 9: people are going to do the mutual aid work and the.

2327
02:20:44,480 --> 02:20:46,840
Speaker 5: CARE work i think we need to continue to do

2328
02:20:46,920 --> 02:20:49,360
Speaker 5: the know your rights and know your. Risks work.

2329
02:20:49,400 --> 02:20:52,080
Speaker 9: THAT'S essential i think a big thing we need to

2330
02:20:52,120 --> 02:20:55,039
Speaker 9: continue to think about Is The insurrection act and getting

2331
02:20:55,080 --> 02:20:58,920
Speaker 9: information out About The, insurrection act which may be invoked

2332
02:20:58,959 --> 02:21:01,520
Speaker 9: prior to. This election, YOU know i think that the

2333
02:21:01,600 --> 02:21:05,640
Speaker 9: ongoing work that people have been, doing again it's about

2334
02:21:05,640 --> 02:21:07,800
Speaker 9: the people and the power of the people that have

2335
02:21:07,840 --> 02:21:10,880
Speaker 9: gotten us. This far but even if we look at,

2336
02:21:11,040 --> 02:21:13,760
Speaker 9: what happened, you know this past week and eight million

2337
02:21:13,800 --> 02:21:17,760
Speaker 9: people coming out to protest, and resist those numbers didn't

2338
02:21:17,800 --> 02:21:19,400
Speaker 9: exist over a, Year ago.

2339
02:21:19,879 --> 02:21:21,680
Speaker 5: AND so i feel like the resistance.

2340
02:21:21,760 --> 02:21:27,879
Speaker 9: Is happening people are coming together and despite, INSTITUTIONAL failures

2341
02:21:28,520 --> 02:21:32,000
Speaker 9: i think the movement has, grown SIGNIFICANTLY and i think

2342
02:21:32,320 --> 02:21:34,080
Speaker 9: we have to even look at the last year and

2343
02:21:34,120 --> 02:21:36,600
Speaker 9: a half to see how far. We've come AND so

2344
02:21:36,720 --> 02:21:39,280
Speaker 9: i have hope that we'll go, even FURTHER and i

2345
02:21:39,320 --> 02:21:42,959
Speaker 9: hope that we're not returning to the. Status quo and

2346
02:21:43,000 --> 02:21:46,480
Speaker 9: in fact we are actually dreaming the world we want to,

2347
02:21:46,560 --> 02:21:48,879
Speaker 9: live in and that we are going to fight for

2348
02:21:48,959 --> 02:21:51,640
Speaker 9: the world we want to, live in and that this

2349
02:21:51,800 --> 02:21:54,720
Speaker 9: is an opportunity for us to let things go and

2350
02:21:54,800 --> 02:21:55,760
Speaker 9: for us to create A.

2351
02:21:55,800 --> 02:22:01,040
Speaker 4: New well thank you all for, those hopeful hope full forecasting.

2352
02:22:01,480 --> 02:22:05,800
Speaker 4: Advice answers you don't always get, that twist which is,

2353
02:22:05,840 --> 02:22:09,640
Speaker 4: really LOVELY and i feel like it's been something that's

2354
02:22:09,680 --> 02:22:13,680
Speaker 4: on my mind a lot Here. In minnesota that's sometimes

2355
02:22:14,040 --> 02:22:17,199
Speaker 4: when things are the worst and you're of the closest

2356
02:22:17,200 --> 02:22:20,240
Speaker 4: to violence. And terror it's also when you see how

2357
02:22:20,280 --> 02:22:22,920
Speaker 4: powerful people are and how powerful resistance.

2358
02:22:22,959 --> 02:22:25,840
Speaker 9: CAN be, i mean these are long fights and these are. Long,

2359
02:22:25,879 --> 02:22:28,439
Speaker 9: HAULS yeah i think that's.

2360
02:22:28,200 --> 02:22:32,200
Speaker 12: Kind of the, lesson is, you know not to get

2361
02:22:32,200 --> 02:22:36,360
Speaker 12: all peer k, a vote but you are not obligated

2362
02:22:36,400 --> 02:22:38,119
Speaker 12: to finish.

2363
02:22:37,840 --> 02:22:40,160
Speaker 19: The work but neither are you free to. Abandon it

2364
02:22:40,280 --> 02:22:41,160
Speaker 19: like these are.

2365
02:22:41,480 --> 02:22:46,240
Speaker 12: Long, fights yeah they are fights that we don't. Win

2366
02:22:46,440 --> 02:22:49,800
Speaker 12: alone it's not possible or desirable to win these.

2367
02:22:49,840 --> 02:22:51,280
Speaker 5: Fights, Alone right.

2368
02:22:51,720 --> 02:22:57,600
Speaker 12: THEY'RE generational i mean they last. Multiple generations so you

2369
02:22:57,600 --> 02:23:01,599
Speaker 12: know this like the ever receding horizon of. Real, democracy

2370
02:23:01,720 --> 02:23:07,800
Speaker 12: right there's no forecast that could even be adequate because

2371
02:23:07,840 --> 02:23:10,600
Speaker 12: it's gonna go on for. So LONG but i think

2372
02:23:10,600 --> 02:23:13,440
Speaker 12: the advice is always, the, same right just don't.

2373
02:23:13,480 --> 02:23:19,360
Speaker 17: Toxic, cups yeah what she said is generally and you're

2374
02:23:19,360 --> 02:23:20,600
Speaker 17: not free to just abandon.

2375
02:23:20,680 --> 02:23:21,480
Speaker 18: The work mom IS.

2376
02:23:21,600 --> 02:23:23,840
Speaker 17: Like i would like write that on a wall SOMEWHERE

2377
02:23:23,920 --> 02:23:26,160
Speaker 17: because i think things people jump, In right it's, like okay,

2378
02:23:26,200 --> 02:23:28,680
Speaker 17: this hot let's. Do it but like once it's not

2379
02:23:28,760 --> 02:23:30,720
Speaker 17: a hot, new thing, you know people kind of move

2380
02:23:30,760 --> 02:23:32,680
Speaker 17: on to the next say it's, like, No none that's

2381
02:23:32,680 --> 02:23:34,440
Speaker 17: when we need folks to stick in it and. You

2382
02:23:34,480 --> 02:23:37,359
Speaker 17: CAN'T and i think that's just a really important, like lesson.

2383
02:23:37,160 --> 02:23:37,680
Speaker 19: Send me your.

2384
02:23:37,680 --> 02:23:40,360
Speaker 12: Mailing address i'm gonna send You a i'm gonna send you.

2385
02:23:40,320 --> 02:23:43,440
Speaker 17: A poster or can you? CROCHET it i know you.

2386
02:23:43,480 --> 02:23:47,200
Speaker 17: Can crochet you gotta with the flowers. And, everything yeah

2387
02:23:47,320 --> 02:23:49,240
Speaker 17: thank you all. So much you guys.

2388
02:23:49,280 --> 02:23:51,480
Speaker 5: ARE awesome i love. You guys it's.

2389
02:23:51,640 --> 02:23:53,360
Speaker 17: SO great i feel like got a, Therapy session, LIKE

2390
02:23:53,360 --> 02:23:54,600
Speaker 17: oh i feel so much, better off.

2391
02:23:54,440 --> 02:23:56,640
Speaker 18: But like what, we're doing like where, we are AND

2392
02:23:56,800 --> 02:23:57,240
Speaker 18: like i.

2393
02:23:57,280 --> 02:23:58,000
Speaker 2: HAVE hope.

2394
02:23:59,400 --> 02:24:00,400
Speaker 1: I med a cake one of.

2395
02:24:00,440 --> 02:24:03,119
Speaker 4: You found thank you for listening to Outlaw on it could.

2396
02:24:03,160 --> 02:24:05,640
Speaker 4: Happen here if you liked, the episode check out The

2397
02:24:05,680 --> 02:24:09,480
Speaker 4: show outlaw wherever you get your podcasts, and, rate review

2398
02:24:09,600 --> 02:24:13,120
Speaker 4: And follow outlaw Pod on Instagram And blue sky for anti,

2399
02:24:13,200 --> 02:24:16,640
Speaker 4: repression updates news and stories that you might want. To

2400
02:24:16,680 --> 02:24:19,560
Speaker 4: know From, the North, from south.

2401
02:24:20,000 --> 02:24:21,600
Speaker 7: From everywhere.

2402
02:24:36,080 --> 02:24:39,640
Speaker 20: This is It could. Happen Here, executive disorder our weekly

2403
02:24:39,680 --> 02:24:42,280
Speaker 20: newscast covering what's happening In The, white house the, crumbling

2404
02:24:42,320 --> 02:24:43,360
Speaker 20: world and what it means.

2405
02:24:43,360 --> 02:24:44,400
Speaker 7: For You I'm.

2406
02:24:44,200 --> 02:24:47,360
Speaker 20: Garrison davis today and Joined By, James Stout, mia Wong And.

2407
02:24:47,560 --> 02:24:51,600
Speaker 20: Robert evans this episode recovering the Week of may Twentieth

2408
02:24:51,640 --> 02:24:57,080
Speaker 20: to may. Twenty, seventh james some small widow idy bitty

2409
02:24:57,160 --> 02:24:57,959
Speaker 20: news items, To.

2410
02:24:57,879 --> 02:25:01,360
Speaker 10: Start yeah talk about the, little things and then we

2411
02:25:01,520 --> 02:25:05,279
Speaker 10: talk about some things in. More Detail the trump administration

2412
02:25:05,360 --> 02:25:08,879
Speaker 10: has lifted a cap on refugee admissions by. Ten thousand

2413
02:25:09,640 --> 02:25:12,480
Speaker 10: this sounds like good news you realize it is to

2414
02:25:12,520 --> 02:25:16,560
Speaker 10: allow More White south africans to seek refuge In The

2415
02:25:16,640 --> 02:25:17,320
Speaker 10: united States.

2416
02:25:17,320 --> 02:25:17,920
Speaker 7: Of america.

2417
02:25:18,800 --> 02:25:23,280
Speaker 10: Great stuff hey. THIS country i Found The federal. Register

2418
02:25:23,360 --> 02:25:25,280
Speaker 10: thing it's still, the documents still it, up THERE but

2419
02:25:25,320 --> 02:25:27,280
Speaker 10: i will link to the place where the document will

2420
02:25:27,280 --> 02:25:27,760
Speaker 10: probably Be.

2421
02:25:28,520 --> 02:25:29,480
Speaker 7: The dutch will never.

2422
02:25:29,520 --> 02:25:34,680
Speaker 10: Be Forgiven The united states has also continued its campaign

2423
02:25:34,720 --> 02:25:40,320
Speaker 10: of strikes In. The pacific the most recent one left

2424
02:25:40,400 --> 02:25:42,800
Speaker 10: two survivors along with one man who.

2425
02:25:42,879 --> 02:25:43,800
Speaker 7: Has Killed.

2426
02:25:45,120 --> 02:25:47,240
Speaker 10: So there's guardian published a piece a while ago about

2427
02:25:47,240 --> 02:25:51,400
Speaker 10: what happened to some survivors who were taken BY the us.

2428
02:25:51,480 --> 02:25:54,800
Speaker 10: Military BOAT the us military boarded, their vessel stole their food,

2429
02:25:54,800 --> 02:25:57,680
Speaker 10: and beer and then Transports Them, twelve salvador where they

2430
02:25:57,680 --> 02:26:01,600
Speaker 10: were questioned and then released to immigration orites and eventually. Sent,

2431
02:26:01,640 --> 02:26:04,840
Speaker 10: HOME basically i guess effectively deported for Illegally Entering el

2432
02:26:04,959 --> 02:26:09,480
Speaker 10: salvador after they were brought there BY the us By The. United,

2433
02:26:09,560 --> 02:26:13,720
Speaker 10: states yeah AFTER the. Us, bomber yeah so we don't

2434
02:26:13,720 --> 02:26:15,640
Speaker 10: know what happened to these. TWO people I Guess coast

2435
02:26:15,640 --> 02:26:19,120
Speaker 10: guide activated so to rescue after. The strike so hopefully they.

2436
02:26:19,200 --> 02:26:22,640
Speaker 10: Found them it's better than them drowning. Out There their

2437
02:26:22,640 --> 02:26:27,240
Speaker 10: Department Of homeland security is auto extending the temporary protected Status,

2438
02:26:27,240 --> 02:26:31,200
Speaker 10: for lebanon not because they affirmatively chose to, do so

2439
02:26:31,240 --> 02:26:33,800
Speaker 10: but because they failed to renewer terminate it, in time so.

2440
02:26:34,000 --> 02:26:39,680
Speaker 10: Auto Extended Mark, wayne MULLIN the, dhs secretary has claimed

2441
02:26:39,680 --> 02:26:41,760
Speaker 10: That the Department of Home and security is drawing up

2442
02:26:41,760 --> 02:26:46,400
Speaker 10: plans to not process incoming international flights in. Sanctuary.

2443
02:26:46,440 --> 02:26:50,800
Speaker 20: Cities, what yeah this is ahead Of The, world, Cup,

2444
02:26:50,959 --> 02:26:52,279
Speaker 20: right yes.

2445
02:26:52,400 --> 02:26:53,240
Speaker 7: So let's play a.

2446
02:26:53,240 --> 02:26:57,440
Speaker 21: Little clip we are currently which were not, initiate yet

2447
02:26:57,440 --> 02:27:00,000
Speaker 21: but we're currently drawing up plans, to, say listen these

2448
02:27:00,080 --> 02:27:05,800
Speaker 21: sanctuary cities where the local radical left democrats aren't allowing

2449
02:27:05,879 --> 02:27:09,040
Speaker 21: us to do our job and enforce, federal laws then

2450
02:27:09,080 --> 02:27:13,080
Speaker 21: we shouldn't be processing international flights into their into their.

2451
02:27:13,080 --> 02:27:16,439
Speaker 21: Cities either because they don't want us to, enforce immigration

2452
02:27:17,120 --> 02:27:19,800
Speaker 21: but they want us to process immigration at. Their facilities

2453
02:27:19,959 --> 02:27:21,240
Speaker 21: nothing about that makes sense.

2454
02:27:21,280 --> 02:27:24,760
Speaker 10: To me the line, HE'S drawing i GUESS what i

2455
02:27:24,760 --> 02:27:27,640
Speaker 10: want to guess at is that he's claiming that in

2456
02:27:27,920 --> 02:27:36,080
Speaker 10: places where police WON'T support ice by removing protesters from

2457
02:27:36,120 --> 02:27:41,320
Speaker 10: the STREETS outside, ice Facilities The united states is not

2458
02:27:41,400 --> 02:27:46,160
Speaker 10: going to allow international travelers to enter at airports in.

2459
02:27:46,240 --> 02:27:50,119
Speaker 10: Those cities there's a lot to break. Down There like

2460
02:27:50,440 --> 02:27:53,360
Speaker 10: i'm not really going to because it suffice it to

2461
02:27:53,360 --> 02:27:54,320
Speaker 10: say that this would cause.

2462
02:27:54,600 --> 02:27:57,000
Speaker 20: Absolute chaos that's not going, to happen because that's going

2463
02:27:57,040 --> 02:27:59,520
Speaker 20: to heavily. Disrupt capital that's that's just that's just.

2464
02:27:59,560 --> 02:28:03,080
Speaker 10: Not, happen yeah it's not really possible for this. To,

2465
02:28:03,160 --> 02:28:05,720
Speaker 10: work like it's not that they can divert to non, woke,

2466
02:28:05,959 --> 02:28:09,400
Speaker 10: airports right that's not how air.

2467
02:28:09,440 --> 02:28:10,400
Speaker 1: Travel works is?

2468
02:28:10,440 --> 02:28:15,680
Speaker 10: This silly but, It's Interesting like mullin has been a

2469
02:28:15,720 --> 02:28:19,240
Speaker 10: bit less kind of crazy and he's like posting. His,

2470
02:28:19,360 --> 02:28:21,560
Speaker 10: policy yeah but maybe he was just getting.

2471
02:28:21,600 --> 02:28:24,120
Speaker 20: WARMED up i Mean, he's yeah he obviously does not

2472
02:28:24,240 --> 02:28:26,960
Speaker 20: understand who his drew. Master is if he actually thinks

2473
02:28:27,000 --> 02:28:27,680
Speaker 20: that this is something that.

2474
02:28:27,760 --> 02:28:30,840
Speaker 7: Can, happen YEAH he i don't know if he.

2475
02:28:30,879 --> 02:28:32,840
Speaker 10: Does what he's just Talking To fox news and yeah

2476
02:28:33,040 --> 02:28:35,520
Speaker 10: said what He Thought fox news wanted. To hear mullin

2477
02:28:35,640 --> 02:28:37,760
Speaker 10: was talking about this in response to a large and

2478
02:28:37,800 --> 02:28:41,360
Speaker 10: growing Protest At, delaney hall which is a private detention Facility,

2479
02:28:41,400 --> 02:28:45,080
Speaker 10: In Newark, new jersey where three hundred detainees have been

2480
02:28:45,080 --> 02:28:48,240
Speaker 10: on hunger strike Since. Last friday mullin has versusly claimed

2481
02:28:48,240 --> 02:28:51,400
Speaker 10: that they chose to do This Some Memorial, day friday,

2482
02:28:51,400 --> 02:28:54,600
Speaker 10: of Course Not, memorial day and that they want their.

2483
02:28:54,640 --> 02:29:01,240
Speaker 10: Ethnic food people in detention are entitled to religiously, appropriate

2484
02:29:01,280 --> 02:29:03,720
Speaker 10: food but that's not what's, happening, here right people are

2485
02:29:03,760 --> 02:29:06,000
Speaker 10: on hunger strike because of the conditions in. The Facility

2486
02:29:06,480 --> 02:29:09,600
Speaker 10: New Jersey Senator, andy kim who's been there for a

2487
02:29:09,640 --> 02:29:12,480
Speaker 10: while with protesters that he got pepper balled and. Tear

2488
02:29:12,560 --> 02:29:16,440
Speaker 10: gast he entered the facility to, inspect it and he

2489
02:29:16,720 --> 02:29:19,160
Speaker 10: made a thread on egg, dot com the, everything website

2490
02:29:19,160 --> 02:29:22,440
Speaker 10: where he detailed horrible, abuses inside including a woman who

2491
02:29:22,520 --> 02:29:25,360
Speaker 10: had been denied obg wayncare and a pregnant woman who

2492
02:29:25,440 --> 02:29:30,400
Speaker 10: had miscarried inside. THE facility dhs has claimed in response,

2493
02:29:30,560 --> 02:29:33,320
Speaker 10: that quote, IN fact ice has highed detention standards IN

2494
02:29:33,400 --> 02:29:36,640
Speaker 10: most us prisons that HOLD actual. Us citizens that's an

2495
02:29:36,680 --> 02:29:39,360
Speaker 10: incredible thing to say when someone has just detailed the

2496
02:29:39,360 --> 02:29:41,560
Speaker 10: fact that people are having un accompanied miscarriages in your

2497
02:29:41,600 --> 02:29:43,680
Speaker 10: facility and, being, like well we do worse Things to.

2498
02:29:43,760 --> 02:29:47,520
Speaker 10: Americans here there are really a lot of. Layers There,

2499
02:29:48,560 --> 02:29:53,280
Speaker 10: on monday one of the leaders of the hunger strike

2500
02:29:53,800 --> 02:29:58,400
Speaker 10: was transferred out of the Facility in newark to. Another,

2501
02:29:58,480 --> 02:30:02,640
Speaker 10: facility right it's not uncommon for people to be moved

2502
02:30:02,680 --> 02:30:06,759
Speaker 10: around in immigration detention for, various reasons right to include.

2503
02:30:06,760 --> 02:30:07,440
Speaker 7: In, this case.

2504
02:30:07,600 --> 02:30:13,600
Speaker 10: They're, ORGANIZING finally thepcw has published documents detailing a large

2505
02:30:13,640 --> 02:30:16,879
Speaker 10: hall of undeclared chemical weapons that it Found.

2506
02:30:16,920 --> 02:30:20,200
Speaker 20: In syria what IS the moszpw for those who may

2507
02:30:20,240 --> 02:30:22,560
Speaker 20: not be, Acronym aware.

2508
02:30:22,720 --> 02:30:26,840
Speaker 10: It's the organization For the Prohibition Of. Chemical weapons why this. Is,

2509
02:30:26,879 --> 02:30:33,360
Speaker 10: interesting firstly there has been open source reporting detailing The

2510
02:30:33,520 --> 02:30:37,879
Speaker 10: use biaside of chemical weapons against his own population, for

2511
02:30:38,160 --> 02:30:41,880
Speaker 10: years and this. Confirms, that secondly there is a particularly

2512
02:30:41,920 --> 02:30:44,879
Speaker 10: disgusting faction of the left In The united states and

2513
02:30:44,879 --> 02:30:50,240
Speaker 10: elsewhere which has spent years denying that this is, the

2514
02:30:50,280 --> 02:30:54,360
Speaker 10: case spent years effectively running cover FOR a sad murdering

2515
02:30:54,400 --> 02:30:58,560
Speaker 10: little children with. Chemical weapons we had very good evidence

2516
02:30:58,600 --> 02:31:01,879
Speaker 10: that this was. Happening before we now have incontrovertible proof

2517
02:31:01,959 --> 02:31:03,880
Speaker 10: That as sad have the ability to do this and did.

2518
02:31:03,920 --> 02:31:06,920
Speaker 10: Do this we already know that he, did it but

2519
02:31:07,040 --> 02:31:09,800
Speaker 10: it should really make you question the legitimacy of any

2520
02:31:09,840 --> 02:31:13,480
Speaker 10: media source that continues or ever has denied THAT a

2521
02:31:13,600 --> 02:31:17,320
Speaker 10: sad used, chemical weapons or indeed any politician or. Political

2522
02:31:17,360 --> 02:31:21,000
Speaker 10: actor there's no instance in which it's okay to use

2523
02:31:21,080 --> 02:31:25,560
Speaker 10: chemical weapons, against, civilians period and anyone apologizing, for that in,

2524
02:31:25,560 --> 02:31:26,560
Speaker 10: my opinion it is.

2525
02:31:26,680 --> 02:31:31,960
Speaker 20: Pretty despicable in, other news about two, WEEKS Ago abc

2526
02:31:32,160 --> 02:31:37,360
Speaker 20: news nuked the five thirty, eight archive scrubbing all the

2527
02:31:37,560 --> 02:31:41,720
Speaker 20: articles with links now redirecting TO The abc. Politics homepage

2528
02:31:42,480 --> 02:31:45,199
Speaker 20: as annoying as some of the five thirty eight type people,

2529
02:31:45,280 --> 02:31:49,680
Speaker 20: can be this is a bad removal of like documented

2530
02:31:49,680 --> 02:31:51,560
Speaker 20: informations going all the way back to two thousand. And

2531
02:31:51,600 --> 02:31:54,680
Speaker 20: eight it is UNFORTUNATE that abc has. Done this there

2532
02:31:54,760 --> 02:31:57,879
Speaker 20: still is third party archives of these articles that you,

2533
02:31:57,920 --> 02:32:02,360
Speaker 20: can find but it will make actually referencing information held

2534
02:32:02,840 --> 02:32:05,120
Speaker 20: or previously held on five thirty eight much more difficult.

2535
02:32:05,120 --> 02:32:08,160
Speaker 1: Going, forward YEAH and i also just want to say

2536
02:32:08,160 --> 02:32:10,800
Speaker 1: this is a continuous problem with storing information On, the

2537
02:32:10,800 --> 02:32:13,800
Speaker 1: internet which, Is, that yeah information On the internet is.

2538
02:32:13,800 --> 02:32:18,279
Speaker 1: Incredibly ephemeral it is very easy for entire people's lives

2539
02:32:18,320 --> 02:32:21,039
Speaker 1: work to simply be deleted because a parent company decided

2540
02:32:21,080 --> 02:32:24,680
Speaker 1: to make. A move, and yeah there's a bunch of

2541
02:32:24,680 --> 02:32:27,920
Speaker 1: people who do good work on, digital preservation but all

2542
02:32:27,959 --> 02:32:30,160
Speaker 1: of the work that we produce online is significantly more

2543
02:32:30,160 --> 02:32:31,560
Speaker 1: ephemeral than we tend to.

2544
02:32:31,600 --> 02:32:31,760
Speaker 7: Think.

2545
02:32:31,760 --> 02:32:35,320
Speaker 2: About, yeah Yeah As jamie loftus said in her last

2546
02:32:35,360 --> 02:32:38,480
Speaker 2: regular podcast that she did, for us this is a

2547
02:32:38,480 --> 02:32:40,760
Speaker 2: future piece of, lost, media right which is true of

2548
02:32:40,800 --> 02:32:42,600
Speaker 2: almost everything anyone puts up On, the.

2549
02:32:42,560 --> 02:32:43,400
Speaker 7: Internet and.

2550
02:32:44,800 --> 02:32:47,080
Speaker 2: There are groups of people who have worked over the

2551
02:32:47,160 --> 02:32:49,920
Speaker 2: years to try and, mitigate that Including The internet archive

2552
02:32:49,959 --> 02:32:53,400
Speaker 2: and The Way, back machine and they are currently, under

2553
02:32:53,520 --> 02:32:56,560
Speaker 2: attack as is from Within The, wikipedia foundation as we'll talk,

2554
02:32:56,600 --> 02:33:00,320
Speaker 2: About later, but, like yeah it's the only way to

2555
02:33:00,440 --> 02:33:03,200
Speaker 2: make this stuff not be aphemeral and to actually like

2556
02:33:03,840 --> 02:33:08,080
Speaker 2: keep a permanent archive of culture is to support the people.

2557
02:33:08,120 --> 02:33:11,160
Speaker 2: Doing that and the people doing that are never going

2558
02:33:11,160 --> 02:33:14,360
Speaker 2: to be entirely, cool with, for example the people who,

2559
02:33:14,360 --> 02:33:18,560
Speaker 2: make movies the people who put, out newspapers and there's

2560
02:33:18,560 --> 02:33:20,680
Speaker 2: an extent to which they just need the backing of

2561
02:33:20,840 --> 02:33:24,800
Speaker 2: us and of our government to say you can't stop

2562
02:33:24,840 --> 02:33:26,760
Speaker 2: them from doing that because it's in the best needs

2563
02:33:26,800 --> 02:33:27,640
Speaker 2: of the, human race and.

2564
02:33:27,640 --> 02:33:28,560
Speaker 1: That's not going to happen right.

2565
02:33:28,560 --> 02:33:36,880
Speaker 20: Now anyway, Last Weekend fox news reported that socialist Live

2566
02:33:36,920 --> 02:33:40,879
Speaker 20: Streamer hassan piker and the leader of the Activist Organization

2567
02:33:41,040 --> 02:33:44,240
Speaker 20: code pink have been subpoena by the federal government as

2568
02:33:44,240 --> 02:33:47,520
Speaker 20: a part of an investigation into a humanitarian aid Trip

2569
02:33:47,560 --> 02:33:50,160
Speaker 20: to cuba with a bunch of left wing activists and Influencers.

2570
02:33:50,320 --> 02:33:54,640
Speaker 20: Last march fox claimed this investigation is part of a

2571
02:33:54,720 --> 02:33:58,240
Speaker 20: quote broader dragnet inveloping as many As forty american citizens

2572
02:33:58,400 --> 02:34:04,359
Speaker 20: who Joined the marxist Convoy to. Havana unquote after Returning

2573
02:34:04,400 --> 02:34:07,440
Speaker 20: from cuba two, months AGO twenty us citizens were briefly

2574
02:34:07,440 --> 02:34:10,600
Speaker 20: detained and interrogated at, the border and eighteen of them

2575
02:34:10,640 --> 02:34:14,280
Speaker 20: had their phones and other devices SEIZED by cbp agents

2576
02:34:14,600 --> 02:34:20,560
Speaker 20: At The Miami INTERNATIONAL. Airport yep fox supported that these

2577
02:34:20,600 --> 02:34:24,400
Speaker 20: new subpoenas Show that piker is now caught in a

2578
02:34:24,520 --> 02:34:28,000
Speaker 20: quote federal inquiry into whether activists who Traveled to Cuba

2579
02:34:28,080 --> 02:34:33,640
Speaker 20: in MARCH violated us sanctioned laws, through, financing coordination or

2580
02:34:33,680 --> 02:34:37,640
Speaker 20: delivery of Goods, to cuba including potential Contacts with cuban

2581
02:34:37,720 --> 02:34:42,440
Speaker 20: government personnel or entities on, the island also claiming that

2582
02:34:42,480 --> 02:34:46,000
Speaker 20: this investigation is part of a quote broader effort by Officials, At,

2583
02:34:46,000 --> 02:34:50,240
Speaker 20: treasury State And justice departments to curb malign foreign influence

2584
02:34:50,280 --> 02:34:55,520
Speaker 20: operations Inside The united. States Unquote hassan piker has said

2585
02:34:55,560 --> 02:34:59,320
Speaker 20: that he learned about the Subpoena through fox's, media reporting

2586
02:35:00,120 --> 02:35:03,800
Speaker 20: and he has not yet been contacted by. The government

2587
02:35:04,879 --> 02:35:10,240
Speaker 20: fox referred to these subpoenas as quote unquote, Administrative subpoenas

2588
02:35:10,800 --> 02:35:14,840
Speaker 20: and it turns Out Neither hassan Piker Nor code pink

2589
02:35:15,240 --> 02:35:18,120
Speaker 20: have actually been subpoenaed by. The government they've they've not

2590
02:35:18,160 --> 02:35:22,800
Speaker 20: actually been served by the. Federal government. Oh Boy, on

2591
02:35:22,879 --> 02:35:26,560
Speaker 20: tuesday the Leader Of code Pink Told ryan grimm that

2592
02:35:26,640 --> 02:35:30,360
Speaker 20: she received an email From The Treasury department's Office Of

2593
02:35:30,600 --> 02:35:36,080
Speaker 20: Foreign assets control requesting information about the Trip, to cuba

2594
02:35:36,640 --> 02:35:40,039
Speaker 20: suggesting that there is some, probe here but it's not technically,

2595
02:35:40,080 --> 02:35:44,760
Speaker 20: a subpoena and there's still no indication Yet If hassan

2596
02:35:44,840 --> 02:35:46,920
Speaker 20: piker has received a similar request.

2597
02:35:46,959 --> 02:35:48,920
Speaker 1: For information, and like this.

2598
02:35:49,080 --> 02:35:52,360
Speaker 2: Is bad it's not unusual if you go to a

2599
02:35:52,400 --> 02:35:55,959
Speaker 2: Place like Cuba that, american citizens they're certainly not supposed.

2600
02:35:56,000 --> 02:35:59,440
Speaker 2: To trades it too directly to be stopped in questions

2601
02:35:59,440 --> 02:36:01,080
Speaker 2: of the way to, the country and it's now not

2602
02:36:01,200 --> 02:36:03,160
Speaker 2: unusual for devices to.

2603
02:36:03,200 --> 02:36:04,920
Speaker 1: Be taken none of this.

2604
02:36:05,000 --> 02:36:06,640
Speaker 2: Is good like the fact that they could just take

2605
02:36:06,680 --> 02:36:10,560
Speaker 2: your shit at the border. Remains bad, but Yeah as garrison,

2606
02:36:10,600 --> 02:36:12,520
Speaker 2: has said, right now this is.

2607
02:36:12,480 --> 02:36:15,760
Speaker 1: Not what a lot of initial reporting made it. Look Like.

2608
02:36:15,879 --> 02:36:19,560
Speaker 20: Quite, Yeah no, if anything It seems fox is trying to,

2609
02:36:20,320 --> 02:36:25,879
Speaker 20: encourage this this broader drag net and manufacturer consent for

2610
02:36:26,320 --> 02:36:29,360
Speaker 20: there being subpoenas for people on this humanitarian age and.

2611
02:36:29,480 --> 02:36:33,800
Speaker 7: Influencer, Trip, yeah james Speaking.

2612
02:36:33,800 --> 02:36:37,840
Speaker 10: Of, Cuba yeah so let's talk a little bit about

2613
02:36:38,000 --> 02:36:42,680
Speaker 10: people seeking to become permanent residents Of The, united states

2614
02:36:42,800 --> 02:36:44,720
Speaker 10: and we'll get To the cuba tie in a. Minute

2615
02:36:44,760 --> 02:36:51,000
Speaker 10: here SO a uscis policy memorandum has a vice uscif's

2616
02:36:51,040 --> 02:36:54,840
Speaker 10: officers that MOST non us citizens is seeking to adjust

2617
02:36:55,000 --> 02:36:57,160
Speaker 10: their status will now have to LEAVE the usa to.

2618
02:36:57,200 --> 02:37:01,560
Speaker 10: Do so what it's adjusting adjusting generally when somebody who

2619
02:37:01,600 --> 02:37:06,160
Speaker 10: is here on a non immigrant visa or on another

2620
02:37:06,240 --> 02:37:09,800
Speaker 10: immigration status are just to become a, permanent resident right

2621
02:37:10,040 --> 02:37:13,680
Speaker 10: and previously they could do that Inside The, united states

2622
02:37:14,200 --> 02:37:17,000
Speaker 10: or they could go to a consulate and they could

2623
02:37:17,040 --> 02:37:19,440
Speaker 10: apply for a green kind of a consulate Outside The.

2624
02:37:19,520 --> 02:37:24,720
Speaker 10: United states now they're, saying that aside from cases of

2625
02:37:25,360 --> 02:37:29,600
Speaker 10: what they are calling, extraordinary discretion they're going to make

2626
02:37:29,640 --> 02:37:31,680
Speaker 10: people leave and apply from Outside The.

2627
02:37:31,760 --> 02:37:33,480
Speaker 7: United states that.

2628
02:37:33,680 --> 02:37:37,760
Speaker 10: Is bad what is worse is the way that this

2629
02:37:37,959 --> 02:37:43,279
Speaker 10: overlaps with their. Existing, policies right people already applying facing.

2630
02:37:43,360 --> 02:37:47,000
Speaker 10: Huge delays i've everbotten on, that before and now new

2631
02:37:47,080 --> 02:37:50,359
Speaker 10: applicants and possibly people who are halfway through their process

2632
02:37:50,800 --> 02:37:54,480
Speaker 10: will have. To leave that will often mean spouses leaving

2633
02:37:54,480 --> 02:37:57,240
Speaker 10: their spouse and their citizen children if they have them

2634
02:37:57,720 --> 02:37:59,680
Speaker 10: for an unknown amount. Of, time right this could take

2635
02:37:59,720 --> 02:38:03,400
Speaker 10: you very realistic to expect this to. Take years this

2636
02:38:03,840 --> 02:38:10,360
Speaker 10: dovetails with existing visa bands on seventy. Five countries what

2637
02:38:10,440 --> 02:38:14,560
Speaker 10: that means is that people from many of these countries

2638
02:38:15,200 --> 02:38:19,440
Speaker 10: cannot obtain any. Immigrant visas there are some very small

2639
02:38:19,440 --> 02:38:22,280
Speaker 10: exceptions to these. Visa bands in the case of the

2640
02:38:22,280 --> 02:38:24,600
Speaker 10: twenty countries which are on a, complete band there are

2641
02:38:24,640 --> 02:38:28,280
Speaker 10: exceptions for athletes Attending The world cup Or, the olympics. For, Example,

2642
02:38:28,360 --> 02:38:31,160
Speaker 10: right So, like iran it's one of. Those Countries the

2643
02:38:31,160 --> 02:38:33,760
Speaker 10: iranian team can Attend The. World cup they're actually Staying,

2644
02:38:33,760 --> 02:38:36,520
Speaker 10: in tijuana but crossing the border to come and do.

2645
02:38:36,840 --> 02:38:41,120
Speaker 10: Their matches for, everyone, else though if you leave and

2646
02:38:41,160 --> 02:38:43,120
Speaker 10: then you have to come back to collect a, green

2647
02:38:43,160 --> 02:38:47,400
Speaker 10: card re enter on an, immigrant visa then you get your.

2648
02:38:47,400 --> 02:38:47,640
Speaker 7: Green.

2649
02:38:47,680 --> 02:38:51,439
Speaker 10: Card right if you are prohibited from having an immigrant

2650
02:38:51,520 --> 02:38:54,480
Speaker 10: visa because you are a citizen of, these countries then

2651
02:38:54,520 --> 02:38:57,560
Speaker 10: you cannot re enter and thus you cannot get your.

2652
02:38:57,600 --> 02:39:00,920
Speaker 10: Green card and thus this is a de facto bar

2653
02:39:01,760 --> 02:39:05,400
Speaker 10: to people from those travel bank countries getting a green

2654
02:39:05,440 --> 02:39:08,760
Speaker 10: card In The united, states now which is. VERY bad

2655
02:39:09,240 --> 02:39:12,640
Speaker 10: i also noticed that there is not an EXEMPTION that

2656
02:39:12,840 --> 02:39:15,920
Speaker 10: i can see For The Cuban adjustment. Act Here The

2657
02:39:15,959 --> 02:39:18,840
Speaker 10: Cuban adjustment act is a special exploited Pathway for cubans

2658
02:39:19,200 --> 02:39:21,879
Speaker 10: that allows them to adjust a legal permanent. Residence status

2659
02:39:22,120 --> 02:39:23,640
Speaker 10: it used to be, two years now it's. A year

2660
02:39:24,160 --> 02:39:27,120
Speaker 10: this is particularly interesting GIVEN the usa is talking so

2661
02:39:27,200 --> 02:39:29,360
Speaker 10: much about how terrible things Are, in cuba but also

2662
02:39:29,440 --> 02:39:31,360
Speaker 10: saying if you've made it here and you're safe and

2663
02:39:31,400 --> 02:39:34,360
Speaker 10: you feel safer and you want, to stay. You can't

2664
02:39:34,720 --> 02:39:37,959
Speaker 10: you have to go Back to cuba AND apply i

2665
02:39:38,000 --> 02:39:42,720
Speaker 10: guess it. To adjust it seems, very hypocritical but there's.

2666
02:39:42,760 --> 02:39:43,040
Speaker 19: Nothing.

2667
02:39:43,120 --> 02:39:48,360
Speaker 10: New YEAH so i spoke to a couple of folks

2668
02:39:48,400 --> 02:39:51,320
Speaker 10: who would have expertise, in THIS and i don't have

2669
02:39:51,360 --> 02:39:54,199
Speaker 10: their permission to sign, their name. So won't there isn't

2670
02:39:54,200 --> 02:39:57,520
Speaker 10: a consulate Option for cubans seeking. To adjust they can't

2671
02:39:57,560 --> 02:39:59,320
Speaker 10: do it outside of the country And The cuban adjustment

2672
02:39:59,440 --> 02:40:01,160
Speaker 10: they have to do it. The countries they think that

2673
02:40:01,240 --> 02:40:04,680
Speaker 10: this would entirely not, Include them but like, everything else

2674
02:40:05,280 --> 02:40:07,359
Speaker 10: it's a little bit unclear and we.

2675
02:40:07,040 --> 02:40:08,120
Speaker 7: Will, FIND out.

2676
02:40:08,320 --> 02:40:14,160
Speaker 10: I guess, LAST month uscis also removed categorical deferred ACTION for.

2677
02:40:14,360 --> 02:40:20,199
Speaker 10: SIJS individuals sijs is special immigrant. Juvenile status it's granted

2678
02:40:20,240 --> 02:40:23,119
Speaker 10: to people IN the us who are Inside The united

2679
02:40:23,120 --> 02:40:27,160
Speaker 10: states without status who have been subject, to, abuse abandonment

2680
02:40:27,240 --> 02:40:30,280
Speaker 10: or neglect as found by. A Court the trump administration

2681
02:40:30,320 --> 02:40:34,280
Speaker 10: has already deported many of these, young people but this

2682
02:40:34,480 --> 02:40:38,560
Speaker 10: policy memo formally removed categorical, deferred enforcement Which of biden

2683
02:40:38,640 --> 02:40:42,440
Speaker 10: admin began doing in twenty. Twenty, two essentially some people

2684
02:40:42,440 --> 02:40:45,400
Speaker 10: will be told on receiving sijas that they would be

2685
02:40:45,959 --> 02:40:48,840
Speaker 10: safe from deportation and they could receive a. Work permit

2686
02:40:48,879 --> 02:40:52,080
Speaker 10: deferred enforcement is the same thing that PEOPLE under dhaka

2687
02:40:52,160 --> 02:40:55,720
Speaker 10: have right commonly referred to, as dreamers that has now.

2688
02:40:55,800 --> 02:40:58,519
Speaker 1: Been removed PEOPLE.

2689
02:40:58,240 --> 02:41:01,720
Speaker 10: With sijs kind of just to BEING the SIGs offers

2690
02:41:01,720 --> 02:41:05,199
Speaker 10: a pathway to permanent residency that now these people will

2691
02:41:05,480 --> 02:41:07,920
Speaker 10: evidently have to live in fear right up until they

2692
02:41:08,000 --> 02:41:11,000
Speaker 10: are able to. Become citizens if they're able to, become, Citizens,

2693
02:41:11,600 --> 02:41:15,960
Speaker 10: jess yeah like these are some of the most unfortunate

2694
02:41:16,040 --> 02:41:20,480
Speaker 10: people on. The planet like people who get sijs use

2695
02:41:20,480 --> 02:41:24,879
Speaker 10: of it has increased for, unaccompanied miners right that or children,

2696
02:41:24,920 --> 02:41:27,480
Speaker 10: should say people who have come across in the last

2697
02:41:27,520 --> 02:41:31,440
Speaker 10: maybe since twenty, eighteen ish but still it's people who.

2698
02:41:31,240 --> 02:41:32,400
Speaker 7: Have often gone to really.

2699
02:41:32,480 --> 02:41:36,400
Speaker 10: Terrible things the, justification Cited and i'm quoting from the

2700
02:41:36,440 --> 02:41:40,400
Speaker 10: memo here is. That quote the criminality gangs and program.

2701
02:41:40,520 --> 02:41:45,640
Speaker 10: Integrity Concerns In Special Immigrant Juvenile petitions report reviewed over

2702
02:41:45,680 --> 02:41:49,160
Speaker 10: three hundred THOUSAND aliens sija petitions filed from the beginning

2703
02:41:49,200 --> 02:41:51,879
Speaker 10: of fiscal year twenty Thirteen through february twenty. Twenty five

2704
02:41:52,280 --> 02:41:55,560
Speaker 10: key findings included eight hundred and fifty three known or

2705
02:41:55,640 --> 02:42:01,080
Speaker 10: suspected gang members WHO filed, sija petitions most receiving approval

2706
02:42:01,280 --> 02:42:04,080
Speaker 10: of a SIX. Hundred ms thirteen gang MEMBERS filed, sij

2707
02:42:04,200 --> 02:42:06,960
Speaker 10: petitions and more than five hundred. Were approved, among them

2708
02:42:06,959 --> 02:42:10,240
Speaker 10: at least seventy had been charged with gang related, federal racketeering,

2709
02:42:10,280 --> 02:42:13,120
Speaker 10: conspiracy offenses and many other charges violent crimes In The,

2710
02:42:13,200 --> 02:42:18,320
Speaker 10: united states including murderer. Sex OFFENSES additional soja petition approvals

2711
02:42:18,360 --> 02:42:21,240
Speaker 10: included more than one hundred known or suspected members Of The.

2712
02:42:21,280 --> 02:42:24,800
Speaker 10: Eighteenth gang at least three Trend de ragua gang members

2713
02:42:24,840 --> 02:42:29,600
Speaker 10: and dozens Of nor tenos. Gang members if you go

2714
02:42:29,720 --> 02:42:33,640
Speaker 10: back and look at, those numbers three hundred, THOUSAND petitions

2715
02:42:34,080 --> 02:42:37,640
Speaker 10: i see. Seventy, charges yeah. That's absurd that is a

2716
02:42:37,640 --> 02:42:38,240
Speaker 10: fraction of a.

2717
02:42:38,320 --> 02:42:42,320
Speaker 20: Single percent if they reviewed three, Hundred thousand even if

2718
02:42:42,360 --> 02:42:45,160
Speaker 20: this like eight hundred and fifty number, it's correct is,

2719
02:42:45,160 --> 02:42:48,039
Speaker 20: completely correct which is not which that's like less than

2720
02:42:48,120 --> 02:42:49,120
Speaker 20: one third of. A, percent.

2721
02:42:49,200 --> 02:42:50,560
Speaker 7: Yeah exactly it is a.

2722
02:42:50,840 --> 02:42:54,680
Speaker 10: Minuscule fraction if every single person who, they suspect and

2723
02:42:54,800 --> 02:42:56,760
Speaker 10: given what we've seen, about suspicion that could be as

2724
02:42:56,840 --> 02:42:58,439
Speaker 10: much as having, a, Tattoo.

2725
02:42:58,240 --> 02:43:00,080
Speaker 6: Right, yeah yeah it's.

2726
02:43:00,120 --> 02:43:03,000
Speaker 10: Ludicrous to join one up with the other, and, say

2727
02:43:03,040 --> 02:43:05,400
Speaker 10: therefore all of these, young people many of whom have

2728
02:43:05,440 --> 02:43:07,840
Speaker 10: gone through horrific things now will have.

2729
02:43:07,800 --> 02:43:08,240
Speaker 7: To live in.

2730
02:43:08,320 --> 02:43:11,520
Speaker 10: Fear again that policy memo came Out. IN april i

2731
02:43:11,680 --> 02:43:14,400
Speaker 10: found IT when i was looking through the policy memos

2732
02:43:14,920 --> 02:43:17,520
Speaker 10: ON the, uscis WEBSITE and i haven't seen any other reporting.

2733
02:43:17,560 --> 02:43:19,680
Speaker 10: On It maybe i've just, missed it but it's certainly

2734
02:43:19,760 --> 02:43:21,959
Speaker 10: something that people should be. AWARE of i want to

2735
02:43:21,959 --> 02:43:25,320
Speaker 10: do a scripted Series on sijas people for, understandable reasons

2736
02:43:25,640 --> 02:43:28,320
Speaker 10: not all of them want to get up in the media.

2737
02:43:28,440 --> 02:43:33,280
Speaker 20: Right, now yeah in terms of all the immigration changes that,

2738
02:43:33,280 --> 02:43:35,959
Speaker 20: have happened this collection of stuff is like some of

2739
02:43:35,959 --> 02:43:36,400
Speaker 20: the Worst that.

2740
02:43:36,360 --> 02:43:38,160
Speaker 7: I've heard you. Talk, about yeah it's.

2741
02:43:38,240 --> 02:43:42,000
Speaker 10: Really bad like they STARTED deporting, sijs people and even

2742
02:43:42,320 --> 02:43:44,920
Speaker 10: even immigration lawyers who have been, like that This second

2743
02:43:44,920 --> 02:43:46,880
Speaker 10: trump administration is going to be. Really bad The second

2744
02:43:46,879 --> 02:43:50,080
Speaker 10: trump administration is. Really bad people did not expect them

2745
02:43:50,200 --> 02:43:52,520
Speaker 10: to begin going after, these people and they did when they.

2746
02:43:52,800 --> 02:43:55,960
Speaker 10: Were detaining another thing they've claimed is that like some

2747
02:43:56,000 --> 02:43:58,480
Speaker 10: of them are over, twenty one, over eighteen because they

2748
02:43:58,520 --> 02:43:59,560
Speaker 10: can still apply it to twenty.

2749
02:43:59,560 --> 02:43:59,680
Speaker 15: One.

2750
02:44:00,120 --> 02:44:04,000
Speaker 10: Jurisdictions, Right, again sure that doesn't mean that they haven't

2751
02:44:04,000 --> 02:44:06,959
Speaker 10: been through, Terrible things like many many twenty one year

2752
02:44:06,959 --> 02:44:10,400
Speaker 10: Olds in america rely on their parents. For things these

2753
02:44:10,440 --> 02:44:13,280
Speaker 10: people often don't have their parents or have been some

2754
02:44:13,360 --> 02:44:16,520
Speaker 10: cases been abused by or abandoned by, their parents and

2755
02:44:16,560 --> 02:44:19,840
Speaker 10: then sending them back to a place where they may be,

2756
02:44:19,959 --> 02:44:22,240
Speaker 10: in danger where they may not. Be, Safe right there

2757
02:44:22,280 --> 02:44:24,640
Speaker 10: is no moral ethical justification.

2758
02:44:24,760 --> 02:44:30,119
Speaker 1: For, this really it's. Really bad it's. Really, horrible yeah pure.

2759
02:44:30,280 --> 02:44:35,080
Speaker 10: Undiluted, Violence yeah, and likewise we can very clearly see

2760
02:44:35,080 --> 02:44:36,840
Speaker 10: if we look at the list of travel boud countries

2761
02:44:37,560 --> 02:44:39,400
Speaker 10: is going to be a bar and people from a

2762
02:44:39,440 --> 02:44:41,400
Speaker 10: large number of countries where the majority of the population

2763
02:44:41,520 --> 02:44:44,360
Speaker 10: is not white getting citizenship and legal public residence states

2764
02:44:44,360 --> 02:44:47,480
Speaker 10: In The united states rights something that has very clearly

2765
02:44:47,520 --> 02:44:49,879
Speaker 10: been a motivating factor of policy for a. Long, time,

2766
02:44:51,120 --> 02:44:56,200
Speaker 10: so yeah more shit news from me. About immigration talking of,

2767
02:44:56,240 --> 02:45:01,800
Speaker 10: shit news we have to pivot. To advertisements we.

2768
02:45:13,720 --> 02:45:13,800
Speaker 12: And.

2769
02:45:13,959 --> 02:45:19,000
Speaker 2: We're back, oh boy well that's all been. Very depressing

2770
02:45:19,160 --> 02:45:23,000
Speaker 2: you know what's Not. Depressing catholicism, oh oh and, that

2771
02:45:23,720 --> 02:45:28,560
Speaker 2: too too great taste great together to make us.

2772
02:45:28,560 --> 02:45:29,080
Speaker 1: All happy.

2773
02:45:30,320 --> 02:45:34,080
Speaker 2: Oh man this week the same work that we're, Recording

2774
02:45:34,080 --> 02:45:38,960
Speaker 2: This pope leo the fourteenth issued An Encyclical, magnifica humanitas

2775
02:45:39,680 --> 02:45:43,840
Speaker 2: that warned against equating machine intelligence with. Human intelligence, he

2776
02:45:44,000 --> 02:45:47,040
Speaker 2: declared we must avoid the misconception of equating this type

2777
02:45:47,040 --> 02:45:50,320
Speaker 2: of intelligence with that of. Human beings these systems merely

2778
02:45:50,360 --> 02:45:54,520
Speaker 2: imitate certain functions of. Human intelligence this has, BEEN seen

2779
02:45:54,600 --> 02:45:58,600
Speaker 2: i think by most critics of artificial intelligence as a pretty.

2780
02:45:58,640 --> 02:46:02,080
Speaker 2: Good encyclical it is. Very long it's well over one,

2781
02:46:02,120 --> 02:46:05,360
Speaker 2: hundred pages so this is not like a. Quick read

2782
02:46:05,480 --> 02:46:08,520
Speaker 2: you should think about this as like going in and reading.

2783
02:46:08,560 --> 02:46:12,480
Speaker 2: A book it's a really. Interesting document among, other Things

2784
02:46:12,600 --> 02:46:15,880
Speaker 2: the Pope. Quotes Jr or tolkien at, one, point yeah

2785
02:46:16,040 --> 02:46:18,480
Speaker 2: which is a nice. Little bit he also makes a

2786
02:46:18,520 --> 02:46:21,520
Speaker 2: lot of references to mathematics and specifically like kind of

2787
02:46:21,560 --> 02:46:26,520
Speaker 2: comparing The way catholicism thinks about divinity And The holy

2788
02:46:26,560 --> 02:46:29,119
Speaker 2: spirit and all that to certain kind of like, geometric

2789
02:46:29,160 --> 02:46:31,720
Speaker 2: shapes because apparently he was a. MATH major i did not,

2790
02:46:31,840 --> 02:46:35,080
Speaker 2: know this but it comes through in the writing. OF

2791
02:46:35,120 --> 02:46:38,640
Speaker 2: this i would say my overall impression, is, like Oh

2792
02:46:38,640 --> 02:46:41,199
Speaker 2: the pope has a lot more understanding of like technical.

2793
02:46:40,840 --> 02:46:43,640
Speaker 1: STUFF than i thought he was going. To have This

2794
02:46:43,720 --> 02:46:45,119
Speaker 1: isn't this is.

2795
02:46:45,040 --> 02:46:48,000
Speaker 2: Not like a bad thing from a like a basic

2796
02:46:48,200 --> 02:46:52,280
Speaker 2: understanding of how the technology. Works, standpoint obviously a lot

2797
02:46:52,320 --> 02:46:56,080
Speaker 2: of this is based Around the pope's beliefs about the

2798
02:46:56,680 --> 02:47:00,440
Speaker 2: like what humanity is and the divinity within, human umanity

2799
02:47:00,720 --> 02:47:04,600
Speaker 2: which is not something that. Everybody BELIEVES but i also

2800
02:47:04,640 --> 02:47:07,640
Speaker 2: have found an awful lot of atheists and just kind

2801
02:47:07,680 --> 02:47:10,760
Speaker 2: of like non religious people who have been sharing this

2802
02:47:11,200 --> 02:47:14,400
Speaker 2: because while they don't, agree, that like, you know human

2803
02:47:14,440 --> 02:47:17,720
Speaker 2: beings are sacred because of the Sacrifice Of jesus christ necessarily,

2804
02:47:17,800 --> 02:47:20,560
Speaker 2: or whatever or that we were Made. By god they

2805
02:47:20,800 --> 02:47:23,440
Speaker 2: agree with the fact that there's something special about humanity

2806
02:47:23,520 --> 02:47:26,520
Speaker 2: that is not being recreated by, these llmms And so

2807
02:47:26,560 --> 02:47:28,440
Speaker 2: i've seen a lot of like praise as a result. Of,

2808
02:47:28,440 --> 02:47:31,200
Speaker 2: That however i've also SEEN what i thought were pretty.

2809
02:47:31,240 --> 02:47:35,000
Speaker 2: Salient critiques and the number one critique here is that

2810
02:47:35,760 --> 02:47:39,800
Speaker 2: this encyclical was released at an event that was kind

2811
02:47:39,800 --> 02:47:43,440
Speaker 2: of co launched with People, from anthropic And the vatican

2812
02:47:43,520 --> 02:47:47,320
Speaker 2: Worked with anthropic for this release and are in general

2813
02:47:47,440 --> 02:47:50,119
Speaker 2: kind of partnering maybe the, wrong term but working alongside

2814
02:47:50,120 --> 02:47:53,000
Speaker 2: them to try and have a dialogue about the FUTURE

2815
02:47:53,000 --> 02:47:55,160
Speaker 2: of ai and what it should and. Shouldn't do, and

2816
02:47:55,240 --> 02:47:57,640
Speaker 2: specifically one Thing That pope leo talked a lot about

2817
02:47:58,040 --> 02:48:02,880
Speaker 2: was the need to demilitarize or disarm, artificial intelligence as

2818
02:48:02,920 --> 02:48:07,120
Speaker 2: in remove it from use in like, defense industries and

2819
02:48:07,360 --> 02:48:10,000
Speaker 2: certainly make sure that it's not making the call to actually.

2820
02:48:10,080 --> 02:48:14,039
Speaker 20: Kill people and that's Something that anthropic has also took us,

2821
02:48:14,280 --> 02:48:17,920
Speaker 20: stand on insomuch as that now THAT the us government

2822
02:48:18,040 --> 02:48:20,160
Speaker 20: is trying to remove any partnership it Has.

2823
02:48:20,200 --> 02:48:23,720
Speaker 1: With, nthropic, yes yes they at least were openly.

2824
02:48:23,800 --> 02:48:27,160
Speaker 2: Against that now that Doesn't mean anthropics A company i

2825
02:48:27,320 --> 02:48:29,800
Speaker 2: like or a company that everybody. Should like they still

2826
02:48:29,840 --> 02:48:32,800
Speaker 2: played your eyes huge millions, of people basically anyone who's

2827
02:48:32,800 --> 02:48:34,840
Speaker 2: ever written. A book there's a lot of, illegal things

2828
02:48:34,879 --> 02:48:38,320
Speaker 2: objectively Illegal things, anthropic did and that's why there are

2829
02:48:38,440 --> 02:48:41,040
Speaker 2: numerous lawsuits against. Them NOW and i think it is

2830
02:48:41,120 --> 02:48:43,800
Speaker 2: in fact a problem that One of anthropics, Co Founders,

2831
02:48:43,879 --> 02:48:47,000
Speaker 2: chris ola was invited to speak at this event In,

2832
02:48:47,040 --> 02:48:49,959
Speaker 2: the vatican because one of the first things he did

2833
02:48:50,120 --> 02:48:53,160
Speaker 2: after Thanking the vatican And The catholic church And the

2834
02:48:53,200 --> 02:48:56,080
Speaker 2: pope for having, him there is kind of disagree with

2835
02:48:56,120 --> 02:48:58,440
Speaker 2: What the pope had said that these systems merely imitate

2836
02:48:58,480 --> 02:49:02,680
Speaker 2: certain functions of. Human Intelligence because ola said that These

2837
02:49:02,680 --> 02:49:04,680
Speaker 2: systems i'm not quote from an article In the register

2838
02:49:04,800 --> 02:49:07,720
Speaker 2: Here By thomas CLAPBURN quote, ai systems, he said are

2839
02:49:07,760 --> 02:49:10,320
Speaker 2: not the cold calculating robots we. Were promised they are made,

2840
02:49:10,320 --> 02:49:12,360
Speaker 2: from us from, our words and As The holy, father

2841
02:49:12,400 --> 02:49:15,000
Speaker 2: observes they remain an important way is mysterious to those

2842
02:49:15,040 --> 02:49:15,480
Speaker 2: of us who.

2843
02:49:15,520 --> 02:49:20,120
Speaker 1: Train them this IS what i have an. Issue, with no.

2844
02:49:20,240 --> 02:49:23,120
Speaker 2: They're not they're mysterious me in the same sense that

2845
02:49:23,240 --> 02:49:25,200
Speaker 2: like if you make a car that had always just

2846
02:49:25,240 --> 02:49:27,200
Speaker 2: been a simple. Ice engine if you make that a

2847
02:49:27,280 --> 02:49:29,520
Speaker 2: hybrid and you throw like a computer screen and a

2848
02:49:29,560 --> 02:49:31,119
Speaker 2: bunch of shit, in it you're gonna have a bunch

2849
02:49:31,160 --> 02:49:34,039
Speaker 2: of problems with, your car as like a manufacturer that

2850
02:49:34,040 --> 02:49:36,160
Speaker 2: you you didn't expect to have because you've.

2851
02:49:36,160 --> 02:49:37,680
Speaker 1: Added, complexity right.

2852
02:49:37,560 --> 02:49:40,120
Speaker 20: But we can't predict every single outcome of, machine learning,

2853
02:49:40,480 --> 02:49:43,640
Speaker 20: right yeah but but but the way the aropic guy,

2854
02:49:43,720 --> 02:49:47,240
Speaker 20: is using, you know basic basic facts about like machine

2855
02:49:47,280 --> 02:49:50,760
Speaker 20: learning and, neural networks but framing them in a way to.

2856
02:49:51,200 --> 02:49:54,640
Speaker 2: These, are mysterious like the human brain, is mysterious, and, no,

2857
02:49:54,840 --> 02:49:58,480
Speaker 2: yes yeah but but it's also, like course you can't

2858
02:49:58,480 --> 02:49:59,680
Speaker 2: predict what the output is your.

2859
02:49:59,800 --> 02:50:03,080
Speaker 1: Entire processes you're just multiplying matrices against each other over

2860
02:50:03,120 --> 02:50:05,320
Speaker 1: and over again and then checking to see if the

2861
02:50:05,360 --> 02:50:08,640
Speaker 1: output of the random matricey multiplication you've done is what, You.

2862
02:50:08,560 --> 02:50:09,720
Speaker 7: Want, like yeah.

2863
02:50:09,800 --> 02:50:13,039
Speaker 2: No shit the dumb person comparison might BE if i

2864
02:50:13,080 --> 02:50:15,040
Speaker 2: were to buy an empty HOUSE and i were to

2865
02:50:15,080 --> 02:50:17,840
Speaker 2: fill that house with random shit for, thirty years for

2866
02:50:17,879 --> 02:50:19,840
Speaker 2: so Long that i've Forgotten what i've put in, the

2867
02:50:19,840 --> 02:50:21,840
Speaker 2: house AND then i sent you into the house to

2868
02:50:21,879 --> 02:50:24,640
Speaker 2: grab something at random. FROM it i might be totally

2869
02:50:24,680 --> 02:50:27,480
Speaker 2: surprised by what you. Bring out that doesn't mean anything

2870
02:50:27,560 --> 02:50:31,160
Speaker 2: mysterious or sacred. Has occurred it Just means i've.

2871
02:50:31,040 --> 02:50:31,560
Speaker 7: Forgotten, all this.

2872
02:50:32,959 --> 02:50:33,000
Speaker 3: You.

2873
02:50:33,080 --> 02:50:35,520
Speaker 1: Know. Yeah yeah or it's like it's like if you

2874
02:50:35,600 --> 02:50:38,560
Speaker 1: make a machine that just like spits out a, random,

2875
02:50:38,600 --> 02:50:41,440
Speaker 1: output yes you don't know what it's going, to, be, like.

2876
02:50:42,000 --> 02:50:44,560
Speaker 7: Yes this is this is what you, have.

2877
02:50:44,560 --> 02:50:47,440
Speaker 2: Done exactly a random output when it was been trained

2878
02:50:47,440 --> 02:50:48,680
Speaker 2: on the corpus of like.

2879
02:50:49,160 --> 02:50:50,039
Speaker 7: Human. Knowledge.

2880
02:50:50,280 --> 02:50:52,360
Speaker 2: Right yeah and one of the THINGS that i find

2881
02:50:52,480 --> 02:50:55,760
Speaker 2: very frustrating Is that olah made the STATEMENT that ai

2882
02:50:55,920 --> 02:50:59,279
Speaker 2: systems are made from us and from, our, Words right.

2883
02:50:59,560 --> 02:51:01,240
Speaker 1: And he said that in a way as to like and.

2884
02:51:01,280 --> 02:51:03,400
Speaker 2: That's good it, means, that like we all are a

2885
02:51:03,440 --> 02:51:05,039
Speaker 2: part of this and it's a part, of us and

2886
02:51:05,080 --> 02:51:07,360
Speaker 2: so there's humanity. In, it, no, NO no ai isn't

2887
02:51:07,400 --> 02:51:09,600
Speaker 2: like made from. Our words they stole our words that

2888
02:51:09,640 --> 02:51:12,120
Speaker 2: are consent in order to monetize them.

2889
02:51:12,160 --> 02:51:15,640
Speaker 1: For themselves. That's different that's.

2890
02:51:15,720 --> 02:51:18,360
Speaker 10: Real, different yeah in the same way that back in

2891
02:51:18,400 --> 02:51:21,080
Speaker 10: the DAY when i, begun teaching people would plagiarize by

2892
02:51:21,080 --> 02:51:24,119
Speaker 10: copying pasting things. From, books yeah those are also made by.

2893
02:51:24,160 --> 02:51:27,920
Speaker 10: People's words it doesn't make, them, sacred yeah makes. Them,

2894
02:51:27,959 --> 02:51:31,600
Speaker 10: stolen now all our lists in here three questions for

2895
02:51:31,680 --> 02:51:33,920
Speaker 10: discernment and he phrases, is LIKE and i Hope The

2896
02:51:33,920 --> 02:51:36,120
Speaker 10: catholic church can like help us figure out how we

2897
02:51:36,160 --> 02:51:38,760
Speaker 10: should move forward with. These things these are the big QUESTIONS.

2898
02:51:38,760 --> 02:51:41,120
Speaker 10: BEHIND ai i want to quote again for that piece

2899
02:51:41,120 --> 02:51:43,640
Speaker 10: In the register because the author, Of, that clappert has

2900
02:51:43,640 --> 02:51:46,280
Speaker 10: a funny, Bit here, oh la how can we ensure

2901
02:51:46,280 --> 02:51:48,400
Speaker 10: the GAINS of ai are? Shared globally we do not

2902
02:51:48,520 --> 02:51:51,000
Speaker 10: have a mechanism. For this we have many what is.

2903
02:51:51,000 --> 02:51:53,880
Speaker 10: CALLED taxes i know there is litigation already. On going

2904
02:51:54,040 --> 02:51:56,520
Speaker 10: we also Have The french revolution And The russian revolution,

2905
02:51:56,680 --> 02:51:59,160
Speaker 10: among others as well as sharing models when nothing.

2906
02:51:59,200 --> 02:52:04,360
Speaker 6: Else works, That's, good yeah.

2907
02:52:04,400 --> 02:52:05,920
Speaker 1: That's good That's what i've got to say.

2908
02:52:05,920 --> 02:52:08,640
Speaker 20: ON this, i, mean yeah obviously this anthropic guy is

2909
02:52:08,640 --> 02:52:12,119
Speaker 20: going to frame certain things as marketing for, the company

2910
02:52:12,160 --> 02:52:14,040
Speaker 20: right he that that's going to determine the way that

2911
02:52:14,040 --> 02:52:15,920
Speaker 20: that that he uses certain words and the way that

2912
02:52:15,920 --> 02:52:18,840
Speaker 20: he discusses machine learning and. Neural networks right when he's

2913
02:52:18,879 --> 02:52:21,080
Speaker 20: saying that this is like based on the human, brain

2914
02:52:21,240 --> 02:52:24,160
Speaker 20: roughly it's, because yeah it's because it's because it's a

2915
02:52:24,200 --> 02:52:26,800
Speaker 20: machine learning, neural network so it's that's going to frame

2916
02:52:26,840 --> 02:52:28,360
Speaker 20: the way that he's. DOING it i think it makes

2917
02:52:28,360 --> 02:52:30,320
Speaker 20: sense For The catholic church to try to enter into

2918
02:52:30,320 --> 02:52:33,560
Speaker 20: dialogue with a Company, like, anthropic sure especially if, they can,

2919
02:52:33,640 --> 02:52:36,080
Speaker 20: you know unite against teals efforts and even maybe some

2920
02:52:36,160 --> 02:52:39,119
Speaker 20: of some of the Efforts Of. Open aye But obviously

2921
02:52:39,160 --> 02:52:41,200
Speaker 20: anthropic has their own motivations for, doing this which is to.

2922
02:52:41,879 --> 02:52:45,160
Speaker 1: Enrich, themselves, yes yes BUT it's i don't think it's.

2923
02:52:45,080 --> 02:52:48,360
Speaker 20: Surprising That The catholic church will will also try to

2924
02:52:48,440 --> 02:52:51,720
Speaker 20: enter into dialogue to influence the outcome of. THESE things

2925
02:52:51,760 --> 02:52:54,480
Speaker 20: i think, in General the pope statement is.

2926
02:52:53,920 --> 02:52:56,400
Speaker 1: IS fine i Think the pope statement.

2927
02:52:56,480 --> 02:52:58,720
Speaker 2: IS fine i do think this might be a data

2928
02:52:58,760 --> 02:53:01,720
Speaker 2: point in terms of in The future church may need

2929
02:53:01,720 --> 02:53:03,360
Speaker 2: to recognize that you can't actually work with.

2930
02:53:03,400 --> 02:53:06,320
Speaker 1: These guys perhaps that will be the outcome. We'll, See

2931
02:53:06,480 --> 02:53:08,600
Speaker 1: WELL but, I mean I think i think that's part

2932
02:53:08,640 --> 02:53:10,560
Speaker 1: of what's happening, here, though right is that the Reason

2933
02:53:10,600 --> 02:53:14,080
Speaker 1: the church IS taking antiai positions while working with them

2934
02:53:14,120 --> 02:53:15,920
Speaker 1: is that they're like they're they're trying to have it

2935
02:53:16,000 --> 02:53:19,680
Speaker 1: both ways in terms of co opting both LIKE the

2936
02:53:19,720 --> 02:53:23,200
Speaker 1: antiai movement and also work like work with these companies

2937
02:53:23,240 --> 02:53:24,400
Speaker 1: to sort of like build their.

2938
02:53:24,440 --> 02:53:28,800
Speaker 2: INFLUENCE space i don't see it, FULLY that i think for,

2939
02:53:28,920 --> 02:53:32,320
Speaker 2: the popes because he's been very consistent about being horrified

2940
02:53:32,360 --> 02:53:34,600
Speaker 2: by the growth of the arms industry and the IDEA

2941
02:53:34,600 --> 02:53:37,400
Speaker 2: of ai weapons. IN war i kind of suspect From the,

2942
02:53:37,480 --> 02:53:40,960
Speaker 2: vatican's standpoint when that all Erupted with anthropic pulling out

2943
02:53:41,000 --> 02:53:43,640
Speaker 2: and saying they weren't willing to work With the Department

2944
02:53:43,640 --> 02:53:45,520
Speaker 2: of defense on the things the deity wanted them, to

2945
02:53:45,520 --> 02:53:48,800
Speaker 2: do that that's probably When the vatican made. The CALL

2946
02:53:48,879 --> 02:53:51,800
Speaker 2: but i don't. Actually know, You know i'm Not gonna

2947
02:53:51,800 --> 02:53:53,760
Speaker 2: i'm not going to say that the more sinister outcome

2948
02:53:53,840 --> 02:53:55,879
Speaker 2: is definitely not. What's OCCURRING but i think there's a

2949
02:53:55,920 --> 02:53:58,160
Speaker 2: number of ways to kind of look at what the

2950
02:53:58,240 --> 02:53:59,720
Speaker 2: decision that was made and why it.

2951
02:53:59,720 --> 02:54:01,000
Speaker 7: WAS made, i Mean.

2952
02:54:01,080 --> 02:54:03,400
Speaker 20: The catholic arch is one of the most globally influential

2953
02:54:03,600 --> 02:54:07,879
Speaker 20: bodies on. The planet they do have like their theological

2954
02:54:07,920 --> 02:54:10,920
Speaker 20: reasons FOR opposing ai as well as sort of ethical

2955
02:54:10,959 --> 02:54:13,760
Speaker 20: reasons that it's illuminated by the pope in terms of

2956
02:54:13,760 --> 02:54:16,480
Speaker 20: like work, of protections in terms of the anti, war

2957
02:54:16,560 --> 02:54:19,800
Speaker 20: STUFF and i do believe he has, like actual, you

2958
02:54:19,800 --> 02:54:23,400
Speaker 20: know legitimate spiritual beliefs about like what, humanity is and

2959
02:54:23,920 --> 02:54:25,760
Speaker 20: it WAS something i appreciate is that he doesn't just

2960
02:54:25,800 --> 02:54:28,959
Speaker 20: take THIS like ai skeptic point of view and just

2961
02:54:29,000 --> 02:54:33,920
Speaker 20: to deny THAT like ai will, you know significantly transform, our,

2962
02:54:34,040 --> 02:54:36,840
Speaker 20: world RIGHT because I think ai is is transforming production

2963
02:54:36,959 --> 02:54:40,160
Speaker 20: and in some pretty. Significant Ways that pope's not just

2964
02:54:40,560 --> 02:54:43,920
Speaker 20: HOPING that ai will. Go away he's affirming that we

2965
02:54:43,920 --> 02:54:46,120
Speaker 20: actually need to do something about this to protect our.

2966
02:54:46,120 --> 02:54:49,120
Speaker 20: Own humanity and EVEN though ai is not, human it

2967
02:54:49,560 --> 02:54:53,120
Speaker 20: humans do determine how it will, be developed and therefore we.

2968
02:54:53,120 --> 02:54:57,760
Speaker 20: Should ACT and i think that makes sense for. His,

2969
02:54:58,000 --> 02:55:01,600
Speaker 20: POSITION yeah. I don't i'm not surprised as to the

2970
02:55:01,640 --> 02:55:04,760
Speaker 20: fact that he's. DOING it i guess my long term

2971
02:55:04,879 --> 02:55:08,560
Speaker 20: DOUBT is i don't think any of these companies have

2972
02:55:08,760 --> 02:55:13,480
Speaker 20: the ability on their own to make. Responsible, choices no

2973
02:55:13,920 --> 02:55:15,400
Speaker 20: certainly not the future of these.

2974
02:55:15,600 --> 02:55:17,520
Speaker 1: Of THESE and i don't think they have the ability

2975
02:55:17,520 --> 02:55:18,240
Speaker 1: to contribute to.

2976
02:55:18,280 --> 02:55:21,440
Speaker 2: Responsible, DECISIONS sure i think they need to be, Man,

2977
02:55:21,480 --> 02:55:27,600
Speaker 2: handled yeah totally by armed agents of. The state OTHERWISE

2978
02:55:27,800 --> 02:55:29,920
Speaker 2: armed us are going to have to, do it, you

2979
02:55:29,959 --> 02:55:33,880
Speaker 2: know that's that's, the reality and that's, the reality not JUST,

2980
02:55:33,920 --> 02:55:35,320
Speaker 2: with ai that's the reality with every.

2981
02:55:35,360 --> 02:55:37,000
Speaker 1: Mega. Corporation right if.

2982
02:55:36,800 --> 02:55:40,000
Speaker 2: The government does not stop them from destroying life for

2983
02:55:40,160 --> 02:55:43,200
Speaker 2: large numbers, of people then large numbers of people are

2984
02:55:43,200 --> 02:55:45,520
Speaker 2: going to do crazy things, to them. You know and

2985
02:55:45,879 --> 02:55:48,120
Speaker 2: if you want crazy things to stop happening to, for

2986
02:55:48,200 --> 02:55:51,320
Speaker 2: EXAMPLE the Ceo OF, open ai maybe he should stop

2987
02:55:51,400 --> 02:55:52,600
Speaker 2: saying his technology might.

2988
02:55:52,720 --> 02:55:52,879
Speaker 7: Kill.

2989
02:55:52,920 --> 02:55:59,199
Speaker 20: Everyone yeah on a, Related note wired has recently obtained

2990
02:55:59,240 --> 02:56:03,040
Speaker 20: thousands of documents FROM, THE, dhs fbi and state level

2991
02:56:03,200 --> 02:56:08,520
Speaker 20: info sharing. Anti terrorism they're called, fusion centers where information

2992
02:56:08,600 --> 02:56:11,000
Speaker 20: is shared BETWEEN, the FEDS, the stay and local local.

2993
02:56:11,040 --> 02:56:13,119
Speaker 7: Law enforcement and a.

2994
02:56:13,080 --> 02:56:18,560
Speaker 20: Report From The New york intelligence And Counter terrorism bureau

2995
02:56:18,720 --> 02:56:22,880
Speaker 20: has warned of widespread upheaval in response to the ADOPTION,

2996
02:56:23,000 --> 02:56:27,760
Speaker 20: of ai and has coined a, new term quote anti

2997
02:56:27,920 --> 02:56:33,600
Speaker 20: tech violent. Extremism unquote this is this is a this

2998
02:56:33,640 --> 02:56:34,680
Speaker 20: is a quote from.

2999
02:56:34,840 --> 02:56:35,040
Speaker 1: This.

3000
02:56:35,160 --> 02:56:39,400
Speaker 20: Report quote the chaotic atmosphere that may result FROM emergent

3001
02:56:39,560 --> 02:56:42,320
Speaker 20: aa technology in the next five years may fuel large

3002
02:56:42,360 --> 02:56:46,840
Speaker 20: scale protests that devolve into civil unrest and anti tech violent,

3003
02:56:46,920 --> 02:56:50,560
Speaker 20: extremist activity especially in larger bernarias Such As new york.

3004
02:56:50,640 --> 02:56:52,520
Speaker 7: City unquote this.

3005
02:56:52,600 --> 02:56:56,440
Speaker 20: Is, interesting also According, to Wired The intelligence bureau report

3006
02:56:57,080 --> 02:57:02,760
Speaker 20: Referenced the ziziants and worn that quote paranoid VIEWS regarding

3007
02:57:02,800 --> 02:57:06,440
Speaker 20: ai may proliferate in the Aftermath of physician's trial thanks

3008
02:57:06,440 --> 02:57:09,879
Speaker 20: to their quote attempt, to reason the belief that a

3009
02:57:09,920 --> 02:57:16,400
Speaker 20: godlike INCARNATION of ai is imminent and belief that humans

3010
02:57:16,520 --> 02:57:19,280
Speaker 20: must best use their time in the present to devote

3011
02:57:19,320 --> 02:57:23,280
Speaker 20: themselves to ensuring its compliance with, human morality or face

3012
02:57:23,440 --> 02:57:25,600
Speaker 20: existential consequences for failing to.

3013
02:57:25,640 --> 02:57:25,960
Speaker 7: Do So.

3014
02:57:26,240 --> 02:57:32,040
Speaker 20: Unquote god this is, really interesting the Stuff that roberts

3015
02:57:32,080 --> 02:57:35,640
Speaker 20: been talking about for quite. A, while yeah, AND like

3016
02:57:36,920 --> 02:57:39,720
Speaker 20: i think this report was actually written Before The sam

3017
02:57:39,760 --> 02:57:42,119
Speaker 20: maltman molotov, cocktail attack or at least it was written

3018
02:57:42,120 --> 02:57:44,880
Speaker 20: around the, same TIME but i think probably a little.

3019
02:57:44,879 --> 02:57:47,760
Speaker 20: Bit before but considering the molotov cocktail attack On sim

3020
02:57:47,760 --> 02:57:50,640
Speaker 20: maltman's property and the gunshots fired into the home of

3021
02:57:50,680 --> 02:57:54,480
Speaker 20: a pro data center city, council, person like it makes

3022
02:57:54,520 --> 02:57:58,920
Speaker 20: sense that law enforcement IS considering antiai violence as an emerging.

3023
02:57:58,920 --> 02:58:02,160
Speaker 20: Threat vector but it also makes sense to be concerned

3024
02:58:02,200 --> 02:58:06,240
Speaker 20: that non violent opposition may get caught in a federal

3025
02:58:06,400 --> 02:58:09,240
Speaker 20: or state. Level, dragnet yeah.

3026
02:58:08,840 --> 02:58:10,760
Speaker 1: And that's what fusion center is, to, you right they

3027
02:58:10,879 --> 02:58:12,720
Speaker 1: think dragnet a whole bunch, of shit.

3028
02:58:12,680 --> 02:58:13,480
Speaker 7: And that's exactly what.

3029
02:58:13,920 --> 02:58:16,560
Speaker 20: Centers do and most Of this wired report is talking

3030
02:58:16,600 --> 02:58:19,560
Speaker 20: about documents from fusion centers. And like as we have,

3031
02:58:19,600 --> 02:58:23,840
Speaker 20: already seen, law enforcements surveillance capacity and scope has been

3032
02:58:23,879 --> 02:58:27,240
Speaker 20: empowered and extended By The National Security presidential memorandum, number

3033
02:58:27,240 --> 02:58:31,160
Speaker 20: seven and public organizers and protesters are much easier to

3034
02:58:31,160 --> 02:58:34,280
Speaker 20: target than the small minority of people that actually end

3035
02:58:34,360 --> 02:58:38,760
Speaker 20: up committing. Violent crimes wired reported, that, federal state and

3036
02:58:38,800 --> 02:58:43,560
Speaker 20: local agencies are gathering and circulating intelligence about alleged threats to.

3037
02:58:43,640 --> 02:58:48,280
Speaker 20: Data centers the intelligence Documents that wired quotes from outline

3038
02:58:48,320 --> 02:58:52,160
Speaker 20: a variety of threat actors, and models not simply data.

3039
02:58:52,160 --> 02:58:57,640
Speaker 20: Center protests quote, adversarial actors including state, sponsored entities, criminal

3040
02:58:57,640 --> 02:59:01,720
Speaker 20: groups and extremists such as homegrown island extremists or environmental

3041
02:59:01,760 --> 02:59:05,959
Speaker 20: extremists MAY target us. Data centers these actors could also

3042
02:59:06,000 --> 02:59:08,600
Speaker 20: exploit the strategic importance of data centers TO the, us

3043
02:59:08,640 --> 02:59:13,560
Speaker 20: economy using them for activities like, cryptocurrency mining or leveraging

3044
02:59:13,720 --> 02:59:17,800
Speaker 20: third party entities such as front companies to gain ACCESS

3045
02:59:17,840 --> 02:59:21,959
Speaker 20: to us data and, infrastructure unquote so that outlines not

3046
02:59:22,240 --> 02:59:26,760
Speaker 20: just like environmental or like the general anti data center

3047
02:59:27,400 --> 02:59:30,400
Speaker 20: beliefs held By the. American public like this shows like actual,

3048
02:59:30,440 --> 02:59:34,119
Speaker 20: you know like threats to national security by hostile state

3049
02:59:34,200 --> 02:59:37,920
Speaker 20: actors or, criminal groups as well as people with their

3050
02:59:37,959 --> 02:59:42,400
Speaker 20: own environmental or ethical reasons FOR opposing. Ai, Domestically though

3051
02:59:42,600 --> 02:59:45,320
Speaker 20: wired also reported That a fusion Center In northern virginia

3052
02:59:45,600 --> 02:59:50,240
Speaker 20: created a Report on tesla takedown protests and in person

3053
02:59:50,400 --> 02:59:53,840
Speaker 20: assemblies like demonstrations In An arlington county budget meeting And

3054
02:59:53,879 --> 02:59:56,879
Speaker 20: A fairfax County school board meeting where people voiced OPPOSITION.

3055
02:59:56,959 --> 03:00:01,400
Speaker 1: To, ai yeah and this is again also like historically

3056
03:00:01,440 --> 03:00:03,720
Speaker 1: what these fision centers have been, Used for exchange was,

3057
03:00:03,720 --> 03:00:05,400
Speaker 1: TALKING about i mean like all the way back To,

3058
03:00:05,640 --> 03:00:09,440
Speaker 1: LIKE god, i MEAN like i probably should have worked

3059
03:00:09,440 --> 03:00:11,200
Speaker 1: out in WHAT order i wanted to talk, About These,

3060
03:00:11,320 --> 03:00:13,160
Speaker 1: like yeah fusion centers have been used to target everything

3061
03:00:13,200 --> 03:00:16,680
Speaker 1: from like anti ur rock war protest stuff in like

3062
03:00:16,760 --> 03:00:20,840
Speaker 1: the mid two thousands through, like yeah like fusion centers

3063
03:00:20,840 --> 03:00:22,440
Speaker 1: are like one of the big coordinat engagents for like

3064
03:00:22,520 --> 03:00:25,120
Speaker 1: all of the repression in. Twenty twenty they've been used

3065
03:00:25,160 --> 03:00:28,720
Speaker 1: in Like anti palestine protests and LIKE twenty fourge and the.

3066
03:00:28,720 --> 03:00:31,600
Speaker 1: Campus occupations, so, LIKE yeah i like these sorts of

3067
03:00:31,640 --> 03:00:34,119
Speaker 1: like intelligence reports are talking about like different, threat factors

3068
03:00:34,120 --> 03:00:37,400
Speaker 1: but going after protesters is like what these fision centers

3069
03:00:37,840 --> 03:00:39,360
Speaker 1: in a lot of cases are designed.

3070
03:00:39,400 --> 03:00:41,720
Speaker 7: To do, so, yeah yeah.

3071
03:00:41,600 --> 03:00:44,560
Speaker 1: Definitely a thing to be, concerned about given what these

3072
03:00:44,600 --> 03:00:49,160
Speaker 1: things are and what. They, do yeah speaking of, cryptocurrency mining,

3073
03:00:50,800 --> 03:00:54,360
Speaker 1: oh boy, so, yeah yeah speak speak speaking of using

3074
03:00:54,920 --> 03:00:59,120
Speaker 1: large entities for. Crypto bullshit so last week we talked

3075
03:00:59,160 --> 03:01:02,080
Speaker 1: a bit about and wash The New Federal reserve board

3076
03:01:02,120 --> 03:01:04,560
Speaker 1: chairman's like ties to the tech, right right ties to

3077
03:01:04,640 --> 03:01:08,080
Speaker 1: feel ties and recent ties to this whole sort of

3078
03:01:08,160 --> 03:01:11,600
Speaker 1: world of like tech venture. Capital money AND today i

3079
03:01:11,600 --> 03:01:14,880
Speaker 1: want to talk about as an executive Order from may

3080
03:01:15,040 --> 03:01:19,800
Speaker 1: nineteenth From the trump administration that Orders The federal reserve

3081
03:01:19,959 --> 03:01:23,960
Speaker 1: to consider allowing crypto companies and OTHER non fdic and

3082
03:01:24,000 --> 03:01:27,840
Speaker 1: short entities to. Use, fedwire okay so what? Is fedwire

3083
03:01:28,360 --> 03:01:32,600
Speaker 1: on a. Macro level fedwire is the reason The entire american.

3084
03:01:32,680 --> 03:01:37,200
Speaker 1: Economy functions it is the payment service that banks IN

3085
03:01:37,240 --> 03:01:40,000
Speaker 1: the us used to both send money to each other

3086
03:01:40,200 --> 03:01:42,360
Speaker 1: and TO. The fed if you wanted to do. An,

3087
03:01:42,360 --> 03:01:46,000
Speaker 1: analogy right you could say that Fedwire is PayPal, for

3088
03:01:46,080 --> 03:01:50,039
Speaker 1: banks but like the reality is, Not That like PayPal

3089
03:01:50,200 --> 03:01:51,080
Speaker 1: Is like fedwire.

3090
03:01:51,160 --> 03:01:53,600
Speaker 7: For. People right fedwire.

3091
03:01:53,320 --> 03:01:58,960
Speaker 1: Is maybe the single most important infrastructure piece of The

3092
03:01:59,120 --> 03:02:01,080
Speaker 1: entire america. A me i was gonna talk about this a,

3093
03:02:01,080 --> 03:02:04,600
Speaker 1: bit later but the surface on, an AVERAGE the fed

3094
03:02:04,720 --> 03:02:07,960
Speaker 1: estimates that it moves one point one quadrillion dollars.

3095
03:02:08,000 --> 03:02:11,440
Speaker 10: Per year whoa what is a quadrillion fit then in

3096
03:02:11,480 --> 03:02:16,200
Speaker 10: a number of, bigness scale that's a million million dollars lot. Per,

3097
03:02:16,280 --> 03:02:21,520
Speaker 10: Year right like The entire american financial system moves moves through.

3098
03:02:21,520 --> 03:02:24,640
Speaker 1: This service and you can also like move money to

3099
03:02:24,680 --> 03:02:26,280
Speaker 1: the government, through this so you can you can do

3100
03:02:26,320 --> 03:02:29,879
Speaker 1: exchanges With The federal reserve itself or The Different federal. Reserve,

3101
03:02:29,920 --> 03:02:32,680
Speaker 1: banks now in order to get access, to fedwire you

3102
03:02:32,840 --> 03:02:36,120
Speaker 1: have to be an, actual, bank right you have to

3103
03:02:36,120 --> 03:02:40,280
Speaker 1: be LIKE an fdic. Insured Bank and crypto has not

3104
03:02:40,360 --> 03:02:43,840
Speaker 1: had access to. This system LIKE crypto i really don't

3105
03:02:43,840 --> 03:02:46,000
Speaker 1: want to call them crypto banks because they're, not banks

3106
03:02:46,040 --> 03:02:47,280
Speaker 1: and that's why they have a net access to. The

3107
03:02:47,320 --> 03:02:52,000
Speaker 1: system because they're. Not banks crypto is not money and

3108
03:02:52,200 --> 03:02:53,080
Speaker 1: it's not none of.

3109
03:02:53,080 --> 03:02:53,440
Speaker 7: This stuff.

3110
03:02:53,480 --> 03:02:55,240
Speaker 1: THE subjects, i mean IT'S subject i guess to a

3111
03:02:55,240 --> 03:02:57,760
Speaker 1: little bit of like, securities regulation but it's not subject

3112
03:02:57,760 --> 03:03:02,680
Speaker 1: to ACTUAL like fdic regulation or importantly deposit insurance, because

3113
03:03:02,680 --> 03:03:05,959
Speaker 1: again these are. Not, Banks now crypto has been trying

3114
03:03:06,040 --> 03:03:09,880
Speaker 1: to get access TO the fed wire system for years

3115
03:03:09,959 --> 03:03:13,920
Speaker 1: because in order for crypto companies to sort of like

3116
03:03:13,959 --> 03:03:15,640
Speaker 1: interface with the rest of the, banking system they have

3117
03:03:15,640 --> 03:03:17,560
Speaker 1: to like basically like get a bank to act as

3118
03:03:17,560 --> 03:03:19,440
Speaker 1: a partner for them instead of being able to like

3119
03:03:19,480 --> 03:03:21,520
Speaker 1: directly move the stuff around because they can't access. The

3120
03:03:21,560 --> 03:03:26,480
Speaker 1: system And so trump has at least given an executive

3121
03:03:26,600 --> 03:03:29,000
Speaker 1: order FOR the fed to consider.

3122
03:03:29,120 --> 03:03:32,560
Speaker 7: Doing This now trump cannot.

3123
03:03:32,320 --> 03:03:35,920
Speaker 1: Actually, force directly like you can't just sign an executive

3124
03:03:36,000 --> 03:03:37,840
Speaker 1: order that says you have To let crypto do this

3125
03:03:37,879 --> 03:03:40,320
Speaker 1: BECAUSE of. Fed independence BUT the fed had already sort

3126
03:03:40,360 --> 03:03:42,680
Speaker 1: of like opened a period of public comment. On this

3127
03:03:42,720 --> 03:03:45,520
Speaker 1: and this is SOMETHING that i think wash, is this

3128
03:03:45,520 --> 03:03:47,000
Speaker 1: this is. The way it's why it is important that

3129
03:03:47,040 --> 03:03:49,959
Speaker 1: this is happening after like the appointment Of Like, kevin

3130
03:03:50,000 --> 03:03:52,840
Speaker 1: walsh or like after he'd been, technically speaking before he'd,

3131
03:03:52,840 --> 03:03:55,240
Speaker 1: been confirmed but like after or like like before he'd been,

3132
03:03:55,280 --> 03:03:57,240
Speaker 1: sworn in but after like they knew he Was gonna

3133
03:03:57,280 --> 03:04:00,400
Speaker 1: he's going to get through because he is extremely friendly to.

3134
03:04:00,560 --> 03:04:04,120
Speaker 1: These groups this is also a thing that's that's sort

3135
03:04:04,160 --> 03:04:06,160
Speaker 1: of important for the crypto industry because one of the

3136
03:04:06,160 --> 03:04:09,880
Speaker 1: issues that crypto has is that actually trying to like

3137
03:04:10,240 --> 03:04:14,840
Speaker 1: move cryptocurrency around is just. A nightmare that's like one

3138
03:04:14,840 --> 03:04:16,600
Speaker 1: of the reasons why, no one no one actually like

3139
03:04:16,760 --> 03:04:19,320
Speaker 1: uses it to purchase things because it's it's such. A

3140
03:04:19,320 --> 03:04:24,680
Speaker 1: disaster and getting access To the fed's payment system suddenly

3141
03:04:25,040 --> 03:04:27,160
Speaker 1: kind of it gives you a sort of like you

3142
03:04:27,320 --> 03:04:29,840
Speaker 1: can Use the fed's, playmt patform which, actually works unlike

3143
03:04:29,840 --> 03:04:33,200
Speaker 1: theirs which. Do, not now the Other reason i'm bringing,

3144
03:04:33,200 --> 03:04:36,000
Speaker 1: this up so it's worth mentioning that even IF the

3145
03:04:36,000 --> 03:04:38,360
Speaker 1: fed were to allow them to create accounts With The,

3146
03:04:38,360 --> 03:04:42,440
Speaker 1: federal reserve they wouldn't for now have access to a

3147
03:04:42,480 --> 03:04:45,680
Speaker 1: lot of the services That The federal, Reserve provides like

3148
03:04:45,680 --> 03:04:48,400
Speaker 1: they wouldn't be able to do like they take, advantage

3149
03:04:48,400 --> 03:04:51,000
Speaker 1: of like repo injections and like stuff, Like that like

3150
03:04:51,000 --> 03:04:52,320
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of the stuff THAT the

3151
03:04:52,320 --> 03:04:56,760
Speaker 1: fed uses to stabilize the, economy through like injecting money

3152
03:04:56,760 --> 03:04:58,840
Speaker 1: into the banking system and injecting bonds and stuff like

3153
03:04:58,879 --> 03:05:01,240
Speaker 1: that into the system they wouldn't have. Access to but

3154
03:05:01,480 --> 03:05:04,840
Speaker 1: it's pretty clear that these shripto groups wants that eventually

3155
03:05:04,879 --> 03:05:07,879
Speaker 1: because that gives them access to like the actual sort

3156
03:05:07,920 --> 03:05:10,800
Speaker 1: of banking capacity of the, federal government which allows them

3157
03:05:10,840 --> 03:05:13,400
Speaker 1: access to things like very low interest short term loans,

3158
03:05:13,400 --> 03:05:16,240
Speaker 1: and liquidity, et cetera, et cetera. Et cetera AND what

3159
03:05:16,520 --> 03:05:18,440
Speaker 1: i want to close on is is that this Is

3160
03:05:18,720 --> 03:05:22,280
Speaker 1: what worsh's, thing, is right he wants there to be

3161
03:05:22,320 --> 03:05:25,280
Speaker 1: more integration between this sort OF like i call, it,

3162
03:05:25,400 --> 03:05:27,680
Speaker 1: fintech right like the financial, tech things but, you know

3163
03:05:27,720 --> 03:05:30,640
Speaker 1: between these very fascist right wing. Tech companies they want

3164
03:05:30,680 --> 03:05:33,000
Speaker 1: them to be more and more directly integrated into the

3165
03:05:33,000 --> 03:05:35,800
Speaker 1: payment services and into the banking capacity OF the. US

3166
03:05:35,920 --> 03:05:40,200
Speaker 1: governments i mentioned earlier that fed wire moves again one

3167
03:05:40,240 --> 03:05:44,400
Speaker 1: point one quadrillion dollars. A. Year now this this is

3168
03:05:44,400 --> 03:05:47,240
Speaker 1: also what's very Dangerous about trump's people being in control

3169
03:05:47,240 --> 03:05:50,279
Speaker 1: Of The federal reserve because there is so much infrastructure

3170
03:05:50,320 --> 03:05:53,760
Speaker 1: inside Of The federal reserve that if it breaks even a,

3171
03:05:53,840 --> 03:05:56,320
Speaker 1: little bit things that we don't think of, at all

3172
03:05:56,360 --> 03:05:58,680
Speaker 1: like no one like literally no one thinks about like

3173
03:05:59,000 --> 03:06:00,960
Speaker 1: even even if you, do stuff you tend not to

3174
03:06:00,959 --> 03:06:03,560
Speaker 1: think about fed wire because it. Just works and this

3175
03:06:03,680 --> 03:06:06,920
Speaker 1: is less of a risk now that like doge gropers aren't.

3176
03:06:07,000 --> 03:06:10,720
Speaker 1: Running around but one of the Dangers of trump attempting

3177
03:06:10,760 --> 03:06:12,840
Speaker 1: to pay control Of The federal reserve is that his

3178
03:06:12,920 --> 03:06:15,560
Speaker 1: people will break something like this while doing something like

3179
03:06:15,600 --> 03:06:18,720
Speaker 1: attempting to integrate crypto companies. Into it and so that's

3180
03:06:18,840 --> 03:06:20,760
Speaker 1: just going to be a continuing risk that we all

3181
03:06:20,800 --> 03:06:23,640
Speaker 1: sort of have to deal with because tech companies And

3182
03:06:23,680 --> 03:06:26,199
Speaker 1: the trump administration and Now the president Of The federal

3183
03:06:26,240 --> 03:06:31,879
Speaker 1: reserve want to fuck with these systems on which everything

3184
03:06:32,640 --> 03:06:34,440
Speaker 1: in all of our lives depends on in ways that we.

3185
03:06:34,560 --> 03:06:37,959
Speaker 7: Never. See cool, all right.

3186
03:06:38,440 --> 03:06:40,640
Speaker 1: Speaking of the things that all of our lives, depend

3187
03:06:40,680 --> 03:06:42,800
Speaker 1: on here are the products and services that support. This

3188
03:06:42,840 --> 03:06:43,680
Speaker 1: podcast products.

3189
03:06:43,680 --> 03:07:07,160
Speaker 22: And services, That's, Right, leslie yeah.

3190
03:06:56,840 --> 03:06:57,320
Speaker 7: All right and.

3191
03:06:57,600 --> 03:07:03,080
Speaker 2: We're back so they have to unfortunately Talk, about wikipedia

3192
03:07:03,160 --> 03:07:06,480
Speaker 2: or at Least The. Wikimedia, FOUNDATION obviously i think everyone

3193
03:07:06,520 --> 03:07:10,000
Speaker 2: hears pretty big Fans, of wikipedia which is at this

3194
03:07:10,040 --> 03:07:12,160
Speaker 2: point has gone from the thing my teachers used to

3195
03:07:12,200 --> 03:07:15,080
Speaker 2: TELL me i couldn't use in projects, to like by any.

3196
03:07:15,080 --> 03:07:18,480
Speaker 2: Objective measure one of the most significant projects in the

3197
03:07:18,520 --> 03:07:21,600
Speaker 2: history of human knowledge and like storage of things that

3198
03:07:21,680 --> 03:07:24,120
Speaker 2: human beings know and. Have learned it's one of the

3199
03:07:24,200 --> 03:07:27,160
Speaker 2: last like gasps of the promise of The, old internet

3200
03:07:27,280 --> 03:07:30,360
Speaker 2: and it's also the thing that underpins all OF the

3201
03:07:30,440 --> 03:07:34,199
Speaker 2: ai chat Bots alongside reddit in one way, or another

3202
03:07:34,240 --> 03:07:36,680
Speaker 2: and the answers that they give People like wikipedia is

3203
03:07:37,000 --> 03:07:40,280
Speaker 2: incredibly IMPORTANT, for ai which, is why like With The

3204
03:07:40,320 --> 03:07:45,000
Speaker 2: wikimedia foundation has made deals like WITH the ai industry

3205
03:07:45,040 --> 03:07:47,640
Speaker 2: in order to get money for letting them Scrape, like

3206
03:07:47,680 --> 03:07:50,960
Speaker 2: wikipedia which is kind of part of Why The wikimedia

3207
03:07:50,959 --> 03:07:54,360
Speaker 2: foundation is currently doing really fucking. Well monetarily they've got

3208
03:07:54,360 --> 03:07:57,520
Speaker 2: a little under three hundred million dollars, in reserves which

3209
03:07:57,560 --> 03:07:59,720
Speaker 2: is about a year and a half worth of Money

3210
03:07:59,720 --> 03:08:01,080
Speaker 2: for so, first, off.

3211
03:08:01,000 --> 03:08:04,320
Speaker 20: Wait so you're saying those little banners that fill half

3212
03:08:04,320 --> 03:08:07,879
Speaker 20: of the screen EVERY time I use wikipedia, ARE like i.

3213
03:08:07,840 --> 03:08:09,959
Speaker 2: Don't want to actually, RIGHT now i do want to

3214
03:08:09,959 --> 03:08:11,080
Speaker 2: discourage people from Donating.

3215
03:08:11,080 --> 03:08:13,920
Speaker 1: To WIKIPEDIA historically i, have not but yes.

3216
03:08:14,000 --> 03:08:16,680
Speaker 2: You should, first, off no if you've been feeling bad about,

3217
03:08:16,760 --> 03:08:20,440
Speaker 2: not donating they don't currently. Need it they're okay, right

3218
03:08:20,520 --> 03:08:22,680
Speaker 2: now and they shouldn't get more of your money until

3219
03:08:22,720 --> 03:08:24,520
Speaker 2: they stop doing the Shit than i'm about to tell,

3220
03:08:24,560 --> 03:08:27,360
Speaker 2: you about because over the course of ten Days, in

3221
03:08:27,480 --> 03:08:30,720
Speaker 2: May The wikimedia foundation has engaged and what you could

3222
03:08:30,800 --> 03:08:35,200
Speaker 2: call major, union busting firing employees who are trying to

3223
03:08:35,400 --> 03:08:40,840
Speaker 2: organize their fellows and trying to like represent those values

3224
03:08:40,879 --> 03:08:44,560
Speaker 2: Within The. Wikimedia foundation and my source for main source

3225
03:08:44,600 --> 03:08:47,360
Speaker 2: for this is a pretty good Article That jake orlowitz

3226
03:08:47,400 --> 03:08:50,160
Speaker 2: put Out. On, medium recently big text anti labor playbook

3227
03:08:50,160 --> 03:08:54,320
Speaker 2: has Come, for wikipedia and it starts with the Firing

3228
03:08:54,360 --> 03:08:57,640
Speaker 2: in May Of. Brooke vibber she was the very first

3229
03:08:57,640 --> 03:09:00,760
Speaker 2: full time employee Of The wikimedia foundation and ITS, first

3230
03:09:00,800 --> 03:09:04,120
Speaker 2: cto the chief, technical officer and for more than, twenty

3231
03:09:04,200 --> 03:09:07,920
Speaker 2: years she's like one of the main engineers that Has

3232
03:09:08,080 --> 03:09:12,080
Speaker 2: made wikipedia, work right and she's also a, union organizer

3233
03:09:12,120 --> 03:09:16,000
Speaker 2: so she's a very. Important person she's the lead developer for,

3234
03:09:16,120 --> 03:09:18,960
Speaker 2: media wiki which is the platform That runs wikipedia and

3235
03:09:19,320 --> 03:09:21,400
Speaker 2: had been in since two thousand, and three and it

3236
03:09:21,480 --> 03:09:23,480
Speaker 2: is just a very big person both in terms Of

3237
03:09:23,480 --> 03:09:25,560
Speaker 2: how wikipedia works and in terms of like the way

3238
03:09:25,600 --> 03:09:28,560
Speaker 2: in which like they're unionizing efforts. Have gone she was

3239
03:09:28,640 --> 03:09:32,920
Speaker 2: laid off without any like real, costs given and then a,

3240
03:09:32,920 --> 03:09:35,959
Speaker 2: week Later on may, twenty First the foundation Disbanded The Community,

3241
03:09:35,959 --> 03:09:38,879
Speaker 2: tech team which consisted of five engineers and. A Manager

3242
03:09:39,200 --> 03:09:42,160
Speaker 2: The Community tech team had the job of Listening to,

3243
03:09:42,240 --> 03:09:46,000
Speaker 2: wikipedia editors which are number one The reason wikipedia, has

3244
03:09:46,040 --> 03:09:49,840
Speaker 2: content and number. Two, Volunteers right so these are regular

3245
03:09:49,879 --> 03:09:53,199
Speaker 2: employees whose job has been to Hear what wikipedia editors

3246
03:09:53,240 --> 03:09:56,600
Speaker 2: want and then help make sure that the salary employees

3247
03:09:56,600 --> 03:09:59,520
Speaker 2: on the team fulfill those desires and as much as that.

3248
03:09:59,560 --> 03:09:59,600
Speaker 22: Is.

3249
03:09:59,640 --> 03:10:02,680
Speaker 2: Possible right and so when you fire, these people you,

3250
03:10:02,720 --> 03:10:05,000
Speaker 2: are saying we don't really give a shit about the.

3251
03:10:05,080 --> 03:10:08,800
Speaker 2: Volunteer community and it's also noted in This and jake's

3252
03:10:09,120 --> 03:10:12,720
Speaker 2: article that most of those engineers were. Union, organizers now

3253
03:10:12,720 --> 03:10:16,760
Speaker 2: there is currently a solidarity Petition for. Wikipedia editor so

3254
03:10:16,760 --> 03:10:19,360
Speaker 2: if you are an Editor, OF wikipedia i think it

3255
03:10:19,400 --> 03:10:22,640
Speaker 2: would be great if you signed that. Solidarity petition this

3256
03:10:22,800 --> 03:10:25,080
Speaker 2: is the first time that editors have had to do

3257
03:10:25,160 --> 03:10:29,400
Speaker 2: an organized solidarity action with paid. Foundation staff, and yeah

3258
03:10:29,400 --> 03:10:32,320
Speaker 2: it's a. Whole thing the salaried staff there are not

3259
03:10:32,440 --> 03:10:33,039
Speaker 2: on one side.

3260
03:10:33,040 --> 03:10:33,800
Speaker 1: About this this is.

3261
03:10:33,879 --> 03:10:38,400
Speaker 2: Extremely controversial it has a lot to do with the

3262
03:10:38,400 --> 03:10:41,520
Speaker 2: fact that a number of the, old guard including you

3263
03:10:41,520 --> 03:10:44,080
Speaker 2: know the folks who are a number of like some

3264
03:10:44,120 --> 03:10:46,600
Speaker 2: of the oldest People at wikipedia have a kind of

3265
03:10:46,680 --> 03:10:50,640
Speaker 2: libertarian bit, to them you. Might say And in january

3266
03:10:50,640 --> 03:10:53,879
Speaker 2: twentieth of twenty, Twenty Six bernadette behan was RECRUITED as

3267
03:10:53,959 --> 03:10:59,160
Speaker 2: ceo of. The foundation and her prior career included WORK

3268
03:10:59,160 --> 03:11:02,120
Speaker 2: At jp Morgan And, lehman brothers as well as a

3269
03:11:02,160 --> 03:11:03,120
Speaker 2: spokesperson role FOR.

3270
03:11:03,120 --> 03:11:06,680
Speaker 1: The Nsc National. Security council she was On The. Obama

3271
03:11:06,720 --> 03:11:08,880
Speaker 1: foundation she WAS The us Ambassador.

3272
03:11:08,920 --> 03:11:09,200
Speaker 7: Of chile.

3273
03:11:09,600 --> 03:11:12,640
Speaker 2: Oh great this is someone who comes from a background

3274
03:11:12,640 --> 03:11:16,600
Speaker 2: in which fucking with union attempts are very like normal.

3275
03:11:16,640 --> 03:11:20,640
Speaker 2: And accepted the union's demands are. Not extreme they would

3276
03:11:20,640 --> 03:11:23,640
Speaker 2: not have any meaningful impact whatsoever on the pile of

3277
03:11:23,640 --> 03:11:26,960
Speaker 2: Cash that. Wikipedia has there's no excuse For The wikipedia foundation.

3278
03:11:27,040 --> 03:11:28,760
Speaker 2: Doing this you should be pissed at them and not

3279
03:11:28,840 --> 03:11:31,440
Speaker 2: give them more money until they make. Things, right anyway that's.

3280
03:11:31,480 --> 03:11:33,520
Speaker 2: My opinion i'm, done nice.

3281
03:11:33,840 --> 03:11:37,120
Speaker 10: All right so we need to update once again the

3282
03:11:37,440 --> 03:11:42,240
Speaker 10: situation With The united states War. In IRAN the usa

3283
03:11:42,400 --> 03:11:45,960
Speaker 10: this week Again bombed iran and violation, of ceasefire calling

3284
03:11:46,000 --> 03:11:50,520
Speaker 10: it a self defense strike that means still a VIOLATION.

3285
03:11:50,600 --> 03:11:55,320
Speaker 10: Of cesfa the negotiations, are ongoing both sides who remain.

3286
03:11:55,400 --> 03:11:59,520
Speaker 10: Longwaar pot there have been various leaks and reports of

3287
03:11:59,600 --> 03:12:04,680
Speaker 10: where where negotiations. Were at one Suggested that iran would

3288
03:12:04,800 --> 03:12:08,160
Speaker 10: exchange freeing up its assets and other sanctions relief for

3289
03:12:08,720 --> 03:12:13,039
Speaker 10: removing highly a. Rich Geranium IRANIAN state tv leaked details

3290
03:12:13,040 --> 03:12:16,120
Speaker 10: of a suppose memorandum, of understanding which would be like

3291
03:12:16,600 --> 03:12:18,760
Speaker 10: the meurmorandum that they would sign in order to, say,

3292
03:12:18,760 --> 03:12:20,920
Speaker 10: like hey let's get back at. The table, until then

3293
03:12:21,240 --> 03:12:23,200
Speaker 10: these are our rules, kind of this is the rules

3294
03:12:23,400 --> 03:12:26,920
Speaker 10: we're operating underwhere WE negotiate themu said the blockade would

3295
03:12:26,959 --> 03:12:29,440
Speaker 10: end in the straight would, be reopened BUT the usa has.

3296
03:12:29,480 --> 03:12:31,039
Speaker 1: Denied THAT MoU.

3297
03:12:31,160 --> 03:12:33,000
Speaker 10: I don't want to go into the blow by the

3298
03:12:33,080 --> 03:12:35,560
Speaker 10: blow of like leak to denied things because it's just

3299
03:12:35,600 --> 03:12:35,920
Speaker 10: a waste.

3300
03:12:35,959 --> 03:12:36,480
Speaker 7: Of time none of.

3301
03:12:36,520 --> 03:12:39,879
Speaker 1: That's real it's all stock. Market manipulation like it's all.

3302
03:12:40,240 --> 03:12:42,680
Speaker 7: That's sorry that's literally my. Next.

3303
03:12:42,680 --> 03:12:46,160
Speaker 10: Sentence, yeah yeah it doesn't stop, people killing it doesn't stop.

3304
03:12:46,160 --> 03:12:48,520
Speaker 10: People dying it does change the, oil price and it

3305
03:12:48,560 --> 03:12:51,200
Speaker 10: does change the. Stock MARKET and i think if we

3306
03:12:51,240 --> 03:12:55,520
Speaker 10: report on this, too credibly we miss the fact that

3307
03:12:55,360 --> 03:12:57,720
Speaker 10: that that like that is the, real impact and that

3308
03:12:57,879 --> 03:13:00,800
Speaker 10: is how we should frame this in our not do

3309
03:13:00,800 --> 03:13:03,240
Speaker 10: the baraquavied thing of rushing up eight bullet points of

3310
03:13:03,240 --> 03:13:04,440
Speaker 10: something that someone told you would.

3311
03:13:04,440 --> 03:13:05,520
Speaker 7: Never, consider, Why.

3312
03:13:05,440 --> 03:13:07,840
Speaker 20: Well james you will never have a career at actious with.

3313
03:13:07,879 --> 03:13:10,280
Speaker 7: That, ATTITUDE yes i.

3314
03:13:10,240 --> 03:13:13,120
Speaker 10: Think that that bridge has, Been, burned garrison but my

3315
03:13:13,160 --> 03:13:15,039
Speaker 10: path in life has been lit by the bridges. Side

3316
03:13:15,040 --> 03:13:18,360
Speaker 10: burns ONE thing i do want to note Is that

3317
03:13:18,400 --> 03:13:23,240
Speaker 10: trump has attempted to appears to want to tie a

3318
03:13:23,320 --> 03:13:26,200
Speaker 10: piece seal to having other countries in the region Signed The.

3319
03:13:26,240 --> 03:13:29,959
Speaker 10: Abraham Accords abraham accords you're not familiar twenty twenty agreement

3320
03:13:30,040 --> 03:13:34,360
Speaker 10: in WHICH, The, uae Bahrain, Later sudana morocco normalized Relations. With,

3321
03:13:34,440 --> 03:13:37,640
Speaker 10: israel interesting that is unlikely.

3322
03:13:37,760 --> 03:13:38,640
Speaker 1: To happen.

3323
03:13:40,959 --> 03:13:43,000
Speaker 7: You Killed. The eyatlin now you think they're going to

3324
03:13:43,080 --> 03:13:45,160
Speaker 7: Sign The? Abraham, record like what are we? Doing?

3325
03:13:45,200 --> 03:13:47,760
Speaker 10: HERE yeah i mean it's just going through a wish list.

3326
03:13:47,800 --> 03:13:50,760
Speaker 10: OF shit i guess that he or people close to.

3327
03:13:50,840 --> 03:13:50,960
Speaker 6: Him.

3328
03:13:51,000 --> 03:13:55,520
Speaker 10: Wan, Yeah meanwhile iran is continuing To Attack Southern curtis.

3329
03:13:55,600 --> 03:13:57,640
Speaker 10: DAN right i think this offer is a very clear

3330
03:13:57,720 --> 03:14:02,080
Speaker 10: vision Of what kurdish group could expect if they decide

3331
03:14:02,240 --> 03:14:04,760
Speaker 10: to alli WITH the us and serve as a, ground

3332
03:14:04,800 --> 03:14:07,680
Speaker 10: force and of course there are very many reasonable reasons

3333
03:14:07,680 --> 03:14:09,320
Speaker 10: that they would want to, do that right to include

3334
03:14:09,400 --> 03:14:13,600
Speaker 10: liberating themselves from an. Oppressive regime But The, united states

3335
03:14:13,680 --> 03:14:16,000
Speaker 10: as it has done every, other time would probably abandon

3336
03:14:16,040 --> 03:14:18,720
Speaker 10: them and they would be subject. To this they are

3337
03:14:18,720 --> 03:14:21,600
Speaker 10: already subject to this just because of rumors that they

3338
03:14:21,680 --> 03:14:26,280
Speaker 10: were associating With The. United states, this week one strike

3339
03:14:26,320 --> 03:14:32,279
Speaker 10: injured Nine, pak peshmerger several of them very. Critically injured talking,

3340
03:14:32,280 --> 03:14:36,640
Speaker 10: of strikes let's Pivot, to Nigeria where africom is claiming

3341
03:14:36,720 --> 03:14:39,360
Speaker 10: its strikes have killed one hundred and seventy five OR more.

3342
03:14:39,400 --> 03:14:42,640
Speaker 10: ISIS members i KNOW that i am like the lonely voice.

3343
03:14:42,680 --> 03:14:46,720
Speaker 10: On this THE second i and THE second S in

3344
03:14:46,879 --> 03:14:50,160
Speaker 10: isis Stand for iraq And al Sham or Iraq.

3345
03:14:50,200 --> 03:14:53,880
Speaker 1: And, syria, yep, yeah, yes, yes yes it's.

3346
03:14:53,959 --> 03:14:57,760
Speaker 10: CONSTANTLY Frustrated isis, corussian province that's not what. It Means

3347
03:14:57,840 --> 03:14:59,600
Speaker 10: Isis west africa not what.

3348
03:14:59,640 --> 03:15:02,640
Speaker 2: It means so It's the islamic state Of irakanow Sham.

3349
03:15:02,720 --> 03:15:08,040
Speaker 7: In africa, like, yeah incredible it's now made.

3350
03:15:08,160 --> 03:15:09,520
Speaker 10: Into, you like but it.

3351
03:15:09,480 --> 03:15:13,199
Speaker 2: Would be like if there was Like a christian fundamentalist

3352
03:15:13,440 --> 03:15:15,480
Speaker 2: Like The Georgia baptist school, of.

3353
03:15:15,480 --> 03:15:16,440
Speaker 12: Like yeah.

3354
03:15:18,240 --> 03:15:22,800
Speaker 1: Like The united States, of America The united States, Of, America, japan.

3355
03:15:23,760 --> 03:15:26,440
Speaker 7: Yeah, come on not what the.

3356
03:15:26,480 --> 03:15:28,480
Speaker 1: Word, MEANS yeah i.

3357
03:15:28,520 --> 03:15:30,959
Speaker 20: Mean yeah in The new, CHARACTERISM doc i think they

3358
03:15:31,040 --> 03:15:33,560
Speaker 20: almost exclusively referred to it AS Isis.

3359
03:15:33,280 --> 03:15:37,080
Speaker 10: K yeah So that's, corussan, province right which again Not

3360
03:15:37,160 --> 03:15:39,440
Speaker 10: in iraq Or else sham in what we Would call.

3361
03:15:39,520 --> 03:15:42,800
Speaker 10: Afghanistan today, it's fine. It's, fine yeah this is where we're.

3362
03:15:42,800 --> 03:15:45,320
Speaker 10: Out with the fucking acronym is not, An acronym it's just.

3363
03:15:45,360 --> 03:15:50,640
Speaker 10: A word i, GUESS now i. Remain, angry meanwhile Fighting

3364
03:15:50,720 --> 03:15:53,920
Speaker 10: Between boko HARAM and iswap Is what i'm going to.

3365
03:15:53,959 --> 03:15:56,680
Speaker 10: Be using And like chad continues to threaten even worse

3366
03:15:56,720 --> 03:16:01,280
Speaker 10: famine in, the region And hex seth is claiming that

3367
03:16:01,360 --> 03:16:05,280
Speaker 10: these strikes were part of a campaign To. Defend CHRISTIANS and.

3368
03:16:05,320 --> 03:16:07,600
Speaker 23: I just want to know one more thing to give

3369
03:16:07,600 --> 03:16:10,360
Speaker 23: you a sense of how committed this. President is maybe

3370
03:16:10,360 --> 03:16:13,720
Speaker 23: a year ago he heard the Call Of nigerian christians

3371
03:16:14,080 --> 03:16:18,920
Speaker 23: who were being targeted and KILLED by Isis, in nigeria and, He,

3372
03:16:19,040 --> 03:16:21,680
Speaker 23: SAID pete i Want The war department to focus on

3373
03:16:21,800 --> 03:16:23,879
Speaker 23: ensuring that we do everything we can to Protect.

3374
03:16:23,879 --> 03:16:26,119
Speaker 1: Those christians partnerships like.

3375
03:16:26,080 --> 03:16:28,440
Speaker 23: That can take time behind, the scenes but he never wavered,

3376
03:16:28,440 --> 03:16:30,560
Speaker 23: on it and we got the assets there and over the,

3377
03:16:30,600 --> 03:16:32,560
Speaker 23: last month and there hasn't been much coverage, of this

3378
03:16:32,959 --> 03:16:36,800
Speaker 23: WE killed isis number Two, in nigeria who's most responsible

3379
03:16:36,800 --> 03:16:39,600
Speaker 23: For killing christians and trying to TARGET the, us homeland

3380
03:16:40,120 --> 03:16:42,640
Speaker 23: and have since because of the intel we gathered killed

3381
03:16:42,840 --> 03:16:46,320
Speaker 23: HUNDREDS of isis members who were targeting And killing Christians,

3382
03:16:46,400 --> 03:16:47,800
Speaker 23: in nigeria creating a whole new.

3383
03:16:47,840 --> 03:16:49,840
Speaker 7: Opportunity there so there's a lot of.

3384
03:16:49,760 --> 03:16:51,959
Speaker 23: Things we do that the media pays, attention to and

3385
03:16:52,040 --> 03:16:54,560
Speaker 23: a lot of things That the president Empowers the department

3386
03:16:54,560 --> 03:16:57,080
Speaker 23: to do on behalf Of the american people that he

3387
03:16:57,120 --> 03:16:57,680
Speaker 23: deserves great.

3388
03:16:57,720 --> 03:16:59,760
Speaker 7: Credit for so here we are paying.

3389
03:16:59,800 --> 03:17:00,000
Speaker 1: IT time.

3390
03:17:00,560 --> 03:17:04,240
Speaker 10: Esp asked you will notice That the african claim of

3391
03:17:04,240 --> 03:17:08,480
Speaker 10: one hundred and seventy five is. Not, Hundreds however hexth

3392
03:17:08,560 --> 03:17:12,160
Speaker 10: in that statement. Claimed hundreds maybe we are, missing something

3393
03:17:12,440 --> 03:17:14,720
Speaker 10: or maybe he's referring To the december twenty twenty five

3394
03:17:14,800 --> 03:17:17,000
Speaker 10: strikes and including all of those and rolling them. Up

3395
03:17:17,000 --> 03:17:20,400
Speaker 10: together it's of course worth pointing Out that nigerian government

3396
03:17:20,440 --> 03:17:22,800
Speaker 10: has pushed back on this narrative that these strikes are To.

3397
03:17:22,800 --> 03:17:27,200
Speaker 10: Defend christians There are christian Bishops in nigeria who have

3398
03:17:27,240 --> 03:17:31,039
Speaker 10: pushed back on this, narrative because as With many islamist,

3399
03:17:31,120 --> 03:17:34,360
Speaker 10: terror groups the majority of people these people have killed Are. Not,

3400
03:17:34,480 --> 03:17:37,120
Speaker 10: Christians right many of Them, are muslims many of them

3401
03:17:37,120 --> 03:17:40,600
Speaker 10: and people of various. Other Faiths look boko. Haram right

3402
03:17:40,640 --> 03:17:45,400
Speaker 10: the name roughly translates To like western style education. Is forbidden, it's,

3403
03:17:45,440 --> 03:17:49,039
Speaker 10: Haram right like they're going after people who are in

3404
03:17:49,120 --> 03:17:52,920
Speaker 10: that community who have Sought out. Western. Education like there, are,

3405
03:17:53,400 --> 03:17:55,879
Speaker 10: many many MANY instances i could say of these People killing.

3406
03:17:55,920 --> 03:17:59,200
Speaker 10: Muslim people hegcess wants to make this, a crusade and

3407
03:17:59,240 --> 03:18:02,120
Speaker 10: that's just not how things are on. The ground it's

3408
03:18:02,160 --> 03:18:06,199
Speaker 10: a very simplistic understanding of a much more. Complicated reality,

3409
03:18:06,680 --> 03:18:09,959
Speaker 10: but yeah that IS what i Have on nigeria. This

3410
03:18:10,040 --> 03:18:12,199
Speaker 10: week he is right THAT the us Media covers africa

3411
03:18:12,280 --> 03:18:14,840
Speaker 10: less much lesson is should but trying to do our.

3412
03:18:14,879 --> 03:18:19,440
Speaker 20: Best here we have one, more story big story before,

3413
03:18:19,560 --> 03:18:23,720
Speaker 20: We close but first we should Mention the republican Primary

3414
03:18:23,760 --> 03:18:28,520
Speaker 20: in Texas. On tuesday After gaining trump's endorsement, Last Week

3415
03:18:28,600 --> 03:18:32,080
Speaker 20: Texas Attorney General ken paxton won the runoff election In

3416
03:18:32,120 --> 03:18:36,480
Speaker 20: The republican senate. Primary race paxton won by almost four hundred,

3417
03:18:36,560 --> 03:18:41,160
Speaker 20: thousand votes beating the fourth Term Incumbent Republican Senator john

3418
03:18:41,240 --> 03:18:44,800
Speaker 20: cornin at sixty four percent to thirty six percent of.

3419
03:18:44,840 --> 03:18:47,720
Speaker 20: The vote this is the second week in a Row

3420
03:18:47,760 --> 03:18:51,080
Speaker 20: where trump has successfully intervened to steer a congressional primary

3421
03:18:51,120 --> 03:18:57,400
Speaker 20: win away from incumbents and toward staunch. Mega loyalists paxton

3422
03:18:57,400 --> 03:19:00,560
Speaker 20: will now go Up Against tall rico in the general Election.

3423
03:19:01,360 --> 03:19:04,959
Speaker 7: This november should We mention paxton Calling ta? Rico?

3424
03:19:05,000 --> 03:19:09,560
Speaker 2: Transgender, YEAH yeah i mean it's Not, just Paxton It's.

3425
03:19:09,560 --> 03:19:10,680
Speaker 1: Miller miller.

3426
03:19:12,240 --> 03:19:16,760
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah there seems to be A whole gop move

3427
03:19:17,000 --> 03:19:21,400
Speaker 2: to brand him as trans potentially as part of THEIR

3428
03:19:21,520 --> 03:19:25,080
Speaker 2: which i kind of see is some degree, of DESPERATION

3429
03:19:25,120 --> 03:19:29,039
Speaker 2: although i can't Really imagine paxton losing, this election so

3430
03:19:29,120 --> 03:19:32,240
Speaker 2: maybe it's just that they're completely out of other Ideas.

3431
03:19:32,160 --> 03:19:35,680
Speaker 20: And paxson does seem to have more Aliabilities. Than cornyn,

3432
03:19:35,840 --> 03:19:37,840
Speaker 20: was sure But He's, he's paxton and This.

3433
03:19:37,959 --> 03:19:39,200
Speaker 1: Is texas you.

3434
03:19:39,200 --> 03:19:44,039
Speaker 2: Have to take this guy has been charged with crimes

3435
03:19:44,080 --> 03:19:46,120
Speaker 2: AND the gop tried to get rid Of him.

3436
03:19:46,320 --> 03:19:47,359
Speaker 1: Texas refuses.

3437
03:19:48,959 --> 03:19:54,080
Speaker 20: ABSOLUTELY not, I mean i never am putting my Faith

3438
03:19:54,120 --> 03:19:57,760
Speaker 20: in texas as as we. All, know yeah but IF

3439
03:19:57,840 --> 03:20:01,760
Speaker 20: if i were to set up, A pairing. Tallarico v

3440
03:20:02,040 --> 03:20:05,840
Speaker 20: paxton pairing is THE one i, would pick as Opposed to.

3441
03:20:06,040 --> 03:20:11,920
Speaker 20: Tallarico V the cornyn or, You know crockett. V. V, Paxton.

3442
03:20:12,320 --> 03:20:16,560
Speaker 2: Sure i'm not gonna say there's no Way that. Tallerica

3443
03:20:16,600 --> 03:20:20,360
Speaker 2: wins it would be an Astonishing leg it would be a. Really,

3444
03:20:20,800 --> 03:20:23,720
Speaker 2: Yeah look i'll come on here AND admit i, was

3445
03:20:23,760 --> 03:20:26,880
Speaker 2: Wrong and i'll Be, TH yeah i just been too

3446
03:20:26,920 --> 03:20:27,520
Speaker 2: long Living.

3447
03:20:27,560 --> 03:20:30,879
Speaker 1: In texas see this as like the person who's been the, Most,

3448
03:20:30,879 --> 03:20:34,959
Speaker 1: consistent like assuming there's an election that even sort of,

3449
03:20:34,959 --> 03:20:36,879
Speaker 1: functions normally this is gonna be like a two thousand

3450
03:20:36,879 --> 03:20:37,160
Speaker 1: and eight.

3451
03:20:37,200 --> 03:20:39,480
Speaker 7: Style wave they're not like they're not Gonna.

3452
03:20:39,480 --> 03:20:42,320
Speaker 1: Win texas And until i'm eve, Been wrong i've been

3453
03:20:42,320 --> 03:20:44,200
Speaker 1: saying this the Entire time i've been doing, the Show

3454
03:20:44,240 --> 03:20:45,040
Speaker 1: and i've been right every.

3455
03:20:45,080 --> 03:20:49,040
Speaker 7: Single time, so like prove, Me.

3456
03:20:49,080 --> 03:20:52,480
Speaker 2: Wrong texas, you KNOW when i see a Flip for,

3457
03:20:52,560 --> 03:20:54,000
Speaker 2: Texas coming i'll call.

3458
03:20:54,040 --> 03:20:55,400
Speaker 1: It OUT but i don't.

3459
03:20:55,480 --> 03:20:58,880
Speaker 2: Right, Now, nope, Yeah yeah i'm not saying it'll never

3460
03:20:59,040 --> 03:21:03,440
Speaker 2: happen because ghipographically, probably well at some point, like less

3461
03:21:03,480 --> 03:21:08,120
Speaker 2: they really succeeded their, genocide dreams but that ain't happening

3462
03:21:08,200 --> 03:21:09,000
Speaker 2: now on.

3463
03:21:09,120 --> 03:21:10,039
Speaker 1: This, cycle.

3464
03:21:11,680 --> 03:21:14,680
Speaker 20: Finally let's talk about another one of these, redistricting cases

3465
03:21:15,120 --> 03:21:18,720
Speaker 20: and one related To The supreme court ruling On The Voting.

3466
03:21:18,800 --> 03:21:24,720
Speaker 20: Rights Act, on tuesday a federal court Blocked in alabama

3467
03:21:24,800 --> 03:21:28,280
Speaker 20: congressional house map Drawn by republicans in twenty. TWENTY three

3468
03:21:29,080 --> 03:21:31,120
Speaker 20: a three judge panel found that the drawn map was

3469
03:21:31,280 --> 03:21:36,080
Speaker 20: intentionally discriminatory based. On race just two, weeks Ago The

3470
03:21:36,120 --> 03:21:38,480
Speaker 20: supreme court cleared the way for this same map to

3471
03:21:38,600 --> 03:21:43,360
Speaker 20: be used in the twenty twenty six. Midterm Elections alabama

3472
03:21:43,400 --> 03:21:47,520
Speaker 20: republicans have since labeled the district court panel activist. To

3473
03:21:47,600 --> 03:21:50,560
Speaker 20: judges it's worth taking a look at who these. JUDGES

3474
03:21:50,560 --> 03:21:54,240
Speaker 20: are i think The eleventh circuit judge was first appointed

3475
03:21:54,240 --> 03:21:57,520
Speaker 20: to a district court By One. Ronald reagan the other

3476
03:21:57,600 --> 03:22:04,120
Speaker 20: two district judges were Appointed, by trump and this exact

3477
03:22:04,200 --> 03:22:08,560
Speaker 20: same three judge panel had already found this exact same

3478
03:22:08,680 --> 03:22:13,600
Speaker 20: map to be intentionally racially discriminatory. Years ago this new

3479
03:22:13,680 --> 03:22:17,480
Speaker 20: district court order also rejects the state's claims that the

3480
03:22:17,520 --> 03:22:20,920
Speaker 20: twenty twenty three map was just drawn, with partisan not.

3481
03:22:21,200 --> 03:22:24,320
Speaker 20: Racial intent write, in quote the purpose of the twenty

3482
03:22:24,360 --> 03:22:27,560
Speaker 20: twenty three plan was to distribute black voters across districts

3483
03:22:28,080 --> 03:22:31,920
Speaker 20: to dilute, their votes at least in part because they, are.

3484
03:22:32,000 --> 03:22:35,720
Speaker 20: Black unquote this latest ruling is part of a specific

3485
03:22:35,760 --> 03:22:39,360
Speaker 20: redistricting battle that has stretched on for, five Years with

3486
03:22:39,440 --> 03:22:43,440
Speaker 20: republican maps being repeatedly, struck, down, appealed redrawn and struck.

3487
03:22:43,480 --> 03:22:47,360
Speaker 20: Down Again now i've seen some confusion on the exact

3488
03:22:47,400 --> 03:22:50,280
Speaker 20: series of, events here like What The supreme court has

3489
03:22:50,440 --> 03:22:53,560
Speaker 20: ruled on which maps are. Being USED so i want

3490
03:22:53,600 --> 03:22:55,920
Speaker 20: to just briefly go over the sequence EVENTS as i.

3491
03:22:56,000 --> 03:22:59,880
Speaker 20: Understand it in twenty, twenty one a district court ruled

3492
03:23:00,200 --> 03:23:04,760
Speaker 20: a new map drawn after the twenty twenty census Likely

3493
03:23:04,879 --> 03:23:08,120
Speaker 20: violated section two Of The Voting. Rights Act The supreme

3494
03:23:08,120 --> 03:23:11,720
Speaker 20: court upheld this decision in twenty, twenty three barring the

3495
03:23:11,800 --> 03:23:15,200
Speaker 20: use of this twenty twenty. One map After The supreme,

3496
03:23:15,200 --> 03:23:19,240
Speaker 20: court Decision the alabama legislature adopted a new map in twenty,

3497
03:23:19,240 --> 03:23:22,400
Speaker 20: twenty three but a federal court again found that this

3498
03:23:22,600 --> 03:23:26,320
Speaker 20: newer twenty twenty three map also Likely violated, section two

3499
03:23:26,800 --> 03:23:29,960
Speaker 20: And The supreme court let a ban on the use

3500
03:23:30,040 --> 03:23:33,520
Speaker 20: of this map go through by declining to block, the

3501
03:23:33,680 --> 03:23:36,039
Speaker 20: order but they did not rule on the, map itself

3502
03:23:36,760 --> 03:23:39,600
Speaker 20: so the court appointed a special master to draw A

3503
03:23:39,640 --> 03:23:43,920
Speaker 20: New alabama house map to use. Going forward in twenty,

3504
03:23:43,959 --> 03:23:48,200
Speaker 20: twenty five following, a Trial The district court officially Ruled

3505
03:23:48,520 --> 03:23:51,879
Speaker 20: that alabama's twenty twenty three congressional map did in Fact

3506
03:23:51,959 --> 03:23:54,840
Speaker 20: violate section two Of The Voting, rights act finding the

3507
03:23:54,840 --> 03:23:58,200
Speaker 20: map was quote an intentional effort to Dilute black alabama's

3508
03:23:58,280 --> 03:24:02,359
Speaker 20: voting strength and evade the unambiguous requirements of court orders

3509
03:24:02,400 --> 03:24:02,959
Speaker 20: standing in.

3510
03:24:03,000 --> 03:24:03,560
Speaker 7: The, way.

3511
03:24:05,000 --> 03:24:08,039
Speaker 20: Importantly The supreme court had yet to rule on the

3512
03:24:08,080 --> 03:24:12,640
Speaker 20: actual twenty twenty three. Map itself After The district court's

3513
03:24:12,720 --> 03:24:15,720
Speaker 20: ruling in twenty, Twenty five alabama did appeal To The,

3514
03:24:15,800 --> 03:24:20,519
Speaker 20: supreme court but they delayed consideration until After the. Louisiana

3515
03:24:20,600 --> 03:24:24,520
Speaker 20: case as, we know that ruling effectively nullified Much of

3516
03:24:24,560 --> 03:24:27,680
Speaker 20: section two Of The Voting, rights act establishing that intent

3517
03:24:27,800 --> 03:24:31,039
Speaker 20: of racial discrimination must, be shown not just discrimination as

3518
03:24:31,080 --> 03:24:34,640
Speaker 20: an effect in the drawing of. Voting districts but after,

3519
03:24:34,680 --> 03:24:38,160
Speaker 20: That ruling alabama Asked The supreme court again for a

3520
03:24:38,240 --> 03:24:42,040
Speaker 20: quick appeals decision before the state's scheduled primary and to

3521
03:24:42,080 --> 03:24:44,879
Speaker 20: put the lower court's order barring the use of the

3522
03:24:44,879 --> 03:24:48,840
Speaker 20: twenty twenty three map on hold considering their recent ruling

3523
03:24:48,840 --> 03:24:49,000
Speaker 20: In the.

3524
03:24:49,000 --> 03:24:50,680
Speaker 6: Louisiana case And.

3525
03:24:50,640 --> 03:24:54,720
Speaker 20: On, may Eleventh The supreme Court granted alabama's emergency shadow,

3526
03:24:54,720 --> 03:24:57,879
Speaker 20: docket appeal vacated the order blocking the use of the

3527
03:24:57,920 --> 03:25:01,440
Speaker 20: twenty twenty three, district map and sent the case back

3528
03:25:01,520 --> 03:25:04,760
Speaker 20: to the lower court for further review in light Of the.

3529
03:25:04,800 --> 03:25:11,520
Speaker 20: Louisiana ruling so that's, A lot but remember that the

3530
03:25:11,800 --> 03:25:15,840
Speaker 20: district court already ruled that the twenty twenty three map

3531
03:25:15,959 --> 03:25:19,480
Speaker 20: intentionally discriminated based, on race the veried requirement set By

3532
03:25:19,520 --> 03:25:23,160
Speaker 20: The Supreme court's. Louisiana ruling so when the district court

3533
03:25:23,200 --> 03:25:26,920
Speaker 20: reconsidered the case this, past week they found That the

3534
03:25:27,000 --> 03:25:32,080
Speaker 20: louisiana decision only strengthened their original ruling That THE alabama

3535
03:25:32,120 --> 03:25:36,960
Speaker 20: gop map was intentionally discriminatory and deluded. Black voters this

3536
03:25:37,000 --> 03:25:40,000
Speaker 20: is pretty Much what sort wrote in her dissent when

3537
03:25:40,000 --> 03:25:42,879
Speaker 20: she argued that there was quote unquote no reason to

3538
03:25:43,000 --> 03:25:45,280
Speaker 20: send the case back to the district court because that

3539
03:25:45,320 --> 03:25:49,560
Speaker 20: court had already Concluded that alabama quote violated the Fourteenth

3540
03:25:49,600 --> 03:25:52,680
Speaker 20: the medment by intentionally diluting the votes of black Voters.

3541
03:25:52,720 --> 03:25:57,640
Speaker 20: In alabama that constitutional finding of intentional discrimination is independent

3542
03:25:57,720 --> 03:26:01,160
Speaker 20: of and unaffected by an any of the legal issues

3543
03:26:01,360 --> 03:26:05,640
Speaker 20: discussed In the louisiana. Case unquote so that's essentially. What

3544
03:26:05,680 --> 03:26:08,840
Speaker 20: happened that's essentially What The district. Court found the three

3545
03:26:08,920 --> 03:26:13,160
Speaker 20: judge panel also rebuffed opposition to the court ordered Map

3546
03:26:13,160 --> 03:26:15,960
Speaker 20: in alabama on the basis that it bears similarity to

3547
03:26:16,000 --> 03:26:18,960
Speaker 20: the map at the center Of the, louisiana case writing

3548
03:26:19,000 --> 03:26:22,280
Speaker 20: that it's their understanding Of The supreme court's recent ruling

3549
03:26:22,680 --> 03:26:27,920
Speaker 20: that race as a districting criterion cannot be used when,

3550
03:26:28,000 --> 03:26:33,120
Speaker 20: drawing maps but that, quote unquote relevant racial data may

3551
03:26:33,200 --> 03:26:36,879
Speaker 20: be considered for a, lawful purpose like checking that the

3552
03:26:37,000 --> 03:26:41,600
Speaker 20: drawn maps Comply With Voting rights. Act precedent it's not

3553
03:26:41,640 --> 03:26:43,280
Speaker 20: that racial data is used in the drawing, of maps

3554
03:26:43,360 --> 03:26:45,840
Speaker 20: but after the maps, are drawn they can be checked

3555
03:26:45,879 --> 03:26:49,320
Speaker 20: against racial data to make sure they Comply With Voting rights.

3556
03:26:49,360 --> 03:26:53,760
Speaker 20: Act Law The district court Wrote that louisiana's black population

3557
03:26:54,160 --> 03:26:58,680
Speaker 20: is not as concentrated As, in alabama requiring a black

3558
03:26:58,720 --> 03:27:02,560
Speaker 20: majority district to s through multiple metropolitan areas to scoop up,

3559
03:27:02,560 --> 03:27:07,040
Speaker 20: black voters Whereas in alabama it's quote unquote relatively easy

3560
03:27:07,080 --> 03:27:10,160
Speaker 20: to draw a reasonably configured majority.

3561
03:27:10,200 --> 03:27:10,480
Speaker 7: Black.

3562
03:27:10,520 --> 03:27:15,280
Speaker 20: District quote we are unsurprised that race blind relief is

3563
03:27:15,320 --> 03:27:19,360
Speaker 20: available here but was. Unavailable, there here it has been

3564
03:27:19,400 --> 03:27:23,160
Speaker 20: consistently obvious to us from our visual assessment of the

3565
03:27:23,200 --> 03:27:27,800
Speaker 20: geographic Dispersion of alabama's black population and statistics about black

3566
03:27:27,840 --> 03:27:30,959
Speaker 20: population centers in, the state that black Voters in alabama

3567
03:27:31,040 --> 03:27:37,240
Speaker 20: are relatively geographically. Compact unquote, so essentially it's actually pretty

3568
03:27:37,240 --> 03:27:40,400
Speaker 20: difficult to draw a map that separates out the black

3569
03:27:40,440 --> 03:27:42,880
Speaker 20: population to be a minority.

3570
03:27:42,440 --> 03:27:43,119
Speaker 7: Force in all.

3571
03:27:43,200 --> 03:27:48,240
Speaker 20: Voting districts as for, demonstrating intent the district court found

3572
03:27:48,320 --> 03:27:53,359
Speaker 20: That the alabama legislature only enacted the discriminatory map after

3573
03:27:53,560 --> 03:27:57,640
Speaker 20: knowing it would dilute the impact of, black voters and

3574
03:27:57,800 --> 03:28:00,960
Speaker 20: by having prior knowledge of the district print, racial impact

3575
03:28:01,240 --> 03:28:04,480
Speaker 20: including from federal, court findings and then passing the, map

3576
03:28:04,560 --> 03:28:10,160
Speaker 20: anyway that itself. Shows, intent furthermore the judges wrote that

3577
03:28:10,520 --> 03:28:15,080
Speaker 20: the cases quote enormous record contains no evidence of a

3578
03:28:15,120 --> 03:28:19,120
Speaker 20: partisan motive unquote in the drawing of the twenty twenty.

3579
03:28:19,160 --> 03:28:22,640
Speaker 20: Three map i'll quote again from the. Recent order quote

3580
03:28:23,120 --> 03:28:27,080
Speaker 20: in the, simplest terms the sequence and substance of extraordinary

3581
03:28:27,160 --> 03:28:31,640
Speaker 20: legislative events against the backdrop of the, legislature's knowledge compels

3582
03:28:31,720 --> 03:28:35,119
Speaker 20: us to conclude that the legislature doubled down on racially

3583
03:28:35,160 --> 03:28:39,080
Speaker 20: discriminatory vote dilution after we And The supreme court found

3584
03:28:39,120 --> 03:28:43,120
Speaker 20: that it was racially discriminatory. Vote dilution the same evidence

3585
03:28:43,160 --> 03:28:45,760
Speaker 20: leaves us no room to conclude that when the legislature did,

3586
03:28:45,800 --> 03:28:49,560
Speaker 20: all this it had party politics. In mind the only

3587
03:28:49,600 --> 03:28:54,120
Speaker 20: available intent evidence tells us that consideration of race were

3588
03:28:54,200 --> 03:28:58,600
Speaker 20: the key. Reason unquote So the Court ordered alabama to

3589
03:28:58,680 --> 03:29:01,680
Speaker 20: use the alternative court ordered map already used in the

3590
03:29:01,680 --> 03:29:05,000
Speaker 20: twenty twenty four election for the Rest of alabama's twenty

3591
03:29:05,040 --> 03:29:09,039
Speaker 20: twenty six, congressional elections after which the legislature can then

3592
03:29:09,160 --> 03:29:13,640
Speaker 20: create a new congressional. District plan and, of Course the

3593
03:29:13,640 --> 03:29:16,360
Speaker 20: State of alabama has already appealed this To The, supreme

3594
03:29:16,400 --> 03:29:19,880
Speaker 20: court and we will wait and see if they decide

3595
03:29:19,879 --> 03:29:20,119
Speaker 20: to hear.

3596
03:29:20,160 --> 03:29:22,800
Speaker 10: This, case yeah this will continue to be a thing

3597
03:29:22,840 --> 03:29:24,119
Speaker 10: we're going to have to, report on and we, should

3598
03:29:24,160 --> 03:29:27,280
Speaker 10: say for some. Time, rightly yes this is going to

3599
03:29:27,400 --> 03:29:30,840
Speaker 10: result in. Massive, changes yeah we will continue to.

3600
03:29:30,840 --> 03:29:33,440
Speaker 20: COVER them i guess it is interesting that this is

3601
03:29:33,480 --> 03:29:37,240
Speaker 20: the First time i've seen a court really like Interpret

3602
03:29:37,600 --> 03:29:41,000
Speaker 20: the louisiana ruling for like another case to a like

3603
03:29:41,040 --> 03:29:43,200
Speaker 20: this is this is like an over seventy page. Like,

3604
03:29:43,560 --> 03:29:46,879
Speaker 20: ruling yeah and they discuss like Where the louisiana case

3605
03:29:47,000 --> 03:29:49,600
Speaker 20: does apply and where, it doesn't and what it means

3606
03:29:49,640 --> 03:29:54,080
Speaker 20: to quote unquote consider race in the evaluation of. These

3607
03:29:54,120 --> 03:29:57,360
Speaker 20: districts and it would, be interesting, you know If The

3608
03:29:57,360 --> 03:29:59,480
Speaker 20: supreme court has had to, hear this if they're going

3609
03:29:59,520 --> 03:30:03,000
Speaker 20: to a this court's interpretation of, their ruling or if

3610
03:30:03,000 --> 03:30:06,000
Speaker 20: they're going, to, say no you got it wrong and

3611
03:30:06,440 --> 03:30:09,760
Speaker 20: strike down. Their interpretation but, you know, right now they

3612
03:30:10,080 --> 03:30:13,920
Speaker 20: did really outline like what it means to use race

3613
03:30:14,080 --> 03:30:16,560
Speaker 20: in reference to, these districts and how it cannot be

3614
03:30:16,640 --> 03:30:19,600
Speaker 20: used in the drawing of, the, district right but that

3615
03:30:19,640 --> 03:30:22,800
Speaker 20: it can be considered to make sure that it complies.

3616
03:30:22,320 --> 03:30:22,800
Speaker 1: With the voting.

3617
03:30:22,840 --> 03:30:24,280
Speaker 20: Right sack and that does not mean that it was

3618
03:30:24,400 --> 03:30:27,520
Speaker 20: used as a instrument in the actual drawing of.

3619
03:30:27,560 --> 03:30:27,640
Speaker 7: The.

3620
03:30:27,680 --> 03:30:31,520
Speaker 20: District YEAH and i think that that specificity is an

3621
03:30:31,560 --> 03:30:32,480
Speaker 20: interesting part of the.

3622
03:30:32,560 --> 03:30:32,720
Speaker 1: New.

3623
03:30:32,800 --> 03:30:37,560
Speaker 10: RULING definitely i think like, it's if like Any Other supreme, court,

3624
03:30:38,120 --> 03:30:41,160
Speaker 10: decision right things tend to sort of bounce around before they're.

3625
03:30:41,280 --> 03:30:41,600
Speaker 7: Entirely.

3626
03:30:41,640 --> 03:30:44,959
Speaker 20: Clarified YEAH like, i said this is like a a

3627
03:30:45,040 --> 03:30:47,440
Speaker 20: five year, long case all stemming from the twenty. Twenty,

3628
03:30:47,520 --> 03:30:50,440
Speaker 20: census yeah and the maps That the republicans have tried

3629
03:30:50,480 --> 03:30:54,480
Speaker 20: to tried to draw, after that, which which as, Multiple

3630
03:30:54,480 --> 03:30:57,120
Speaker 20: Courts supreme court And The district court have, already INCLUDED

3631
03:30:57,840 --> 03:31:02,240
Speaker 20: the gop tried to intentionally dilute the votes Of black,

3632
03:31:02,240 --> 03:31:04,920
Speaker 20: alabama's right and because of the way that the black

3633
03:31:05,040 --> 03:31:08,720
Speaker 20: population is Concentrated, in alabama there needs to be an

3634
03:31:08,720 --> 03:31:12,080
Speaker 20: intentional effort to, do, That right whereas In this, louisiana

3635
03:31:12,160 --> 03:31:14,400
Speaker 20: case the drawing of districts had, you know had to

3636
03:31:14,440 --> 03:31:17,080
Speaker 20: like looked more gerrymandered to create these black, majority districts

3637
03:31:17,080 --> 03:31:20,560
Speaker 20: Whereas in alabama's case that's not. Really necessary and, in

3638
03:31:20,560 --> 03:31:23,400
Speaker 20: fact a lot of the maps that were referenced in

3639
03:31:23,440 --> 03:31:28,560
Speaker 20: testimony were like. Algorithmically, generated huh. That's interesting it wasn't

3640
03:31:28,680 --> 03:31:33,040
Speaker 20: like then you get the crayons out and like through

3641
03:31:33,040 --> 03:31:35,600
Speaker 20: all Lines Like calbridge jerry did back in. The, day, no,

3642
03:31:36,280 --> 03:31:38,560
Speaker 20: GREAT great i. Love that i'm sure we can expect

3643
03:31:38,600 --> 03:31:43,520
Speaker 20: much more wonderful algorithmically. Generated election, well, Yeah content what

3644
03:31:43,640 --> 03:31:44,200
Speaker 20: a time to.

3645
03:31:44,240 --> 03:31:48,039
Speaker 10: Be alive if you want to email Us Cool, Zone

3646
03:31:48,080 --> 03:31:51,440
Speaker 10: tips Proton, dot me hold off. For now if you're With,

3647
03:31:51,520 --> 03:31:55,120
Speaker 10: The ferrets i've heard from The blackfooted, ferrah COMMUNITY and

3648
03:31:55,280 --> 03:31:58,240
Speaker 10: I feel i do appreciate that unless you can get

3649
03:31:58,280 --> 03:31:59,880
Speaker 10: me on one Of those ferre accounts in which gives

3650
03:31:59,879 --> 03:32:01,680
Speaker 10: me these email put a transcirl on.

3651
03:32:01,760 --> 03:32:05,959
Speaker 7: Your couch we reported, The news we reported.

3652
03:32:05,959 --> 03:32:06,800
Speaker 10: The, News.

3653
03:32:12,600 --> 03:32:15,760
Speaker 2: Hey we'll Be back monday with more episodes every week

3654
03:32:15,840 --> 03:32:17,160
Speaker 2: from now until the heat death of.

3655
03:32:17,160 --> 03:32:18,640
Speaker 1: The universe it.

3656
03:32:18,600 --> 03:32:20,960
Speaker 16: Could happen here is a production Of Cool. Zone media

3657
03:32:21,160 --> 03:32:25,000
Speaker 16: for more podcasts From Cool, zone media visit Our website coolzonemedia,

3658
03:32:25,080 --> 03:32:27,880
Speaker 16: dot com or check us out On the, iHeartRadio App,

3659
03:32:27,959 --> 03:32:31,520
Speaker 16: apple podcasts or wherever you listen. To podcasts you can

3660
03:32:31,560 --> 03:32:33,960
Speaker 16: now find sources where it could, happen here listed directly in.

3661
03:32:34,040 --> 03:32:35,640
Speaker 1: Episode descriptions thanks.

3662
03:32:35,680 --> 03:32:36,199
Speaker 6: For listening