Speaker 1: Next Question with Katie Curic is a production of I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio and Katie Curic Media. Hi everyone, I'm Katie Kuric,
Speaker 1: and welcome to Next Question, where we try to understand
Speaker 1: this complicated world we're living in and the crazy things
Speaker 1: that are happening by asking questions and by listening to
Speaker 1: people who really know what they're talking about. At times,
Speaker 1: it may lead to some pretty uncomfortable conversations, but stick
Speaker 1: with me, everyone, let's all learn together. From your local
Speaker 1: pharmacy to stores like Neiman Marcus and Sephora, it seems
Speaker 1: you can't go anywhere these days without seeing or hearing
Speaker 1: something about c B D phobe D is everywhere, d
Speaker 1: C D oil phoebe D sold here. Celebrities like Amy
Speaker 1: Schumer and athletes like soccer star Megan Rapino and golfer
Speaker 1: Bubba Watson say it helps with everything from anxiety to
Speaker 1: nausea to soar my soles. You can even walk into
Speaker 1: your local bed, bath and beyond and find CBD for
Speaker 1: that's right, your dog. It comes in oils, lotions, bath bombs, pills,
Speaker 1: even gummies. And I actually tried a few products prepping
Speaker 1: for this podcast. They smell a little like perfume. Let
Speaker 1: me try one O. They taste a little like perfume. CBD,
Speaker 1: which stands for is a chemical derived from the marijuana plant,
Speaker 1: But unlike THHC that's another chemical found in marijuana, it
Speaker 1: will not get you high. So my next question why
Speaker 1: is CBD suddenly everywhere? And perhaps most importantly, does it
Speaker 1: really work? A lot of celebrities these days are jumping
Speaker 1: on the CBD bandwagon. Kristen, Hi, you are so sweet
Speaker 1: to do this. I'm sorry, I know it's been such
Speaker 1: a bear to schedule, but thank you so much. Oh
Speaker 1: my god, of course I'm so happy to That's actress
Speaker 1: Kristin Bell who's talked a lot about using CBD for
Speaker 1: her anxiety. So why did she turn to it and
Speaker 1: what is it doing for her? Kristen, when did you
Speaker 1: start using CBD? I guess I started about two and
Speaker 1: a half years ago. And what prompted you to start it?
Speaker 1: You know? I had short of been hearing about it
Speaker 1: for a while, and it was originally recommended to me
Speaker 1: because my friends who were going on like red carpets
Speaker 1: and wearing a high heel for a long time, had
Speaker 1: this bomb with CBD in it that they were rubbing
Speaker 1: on their ankles to save their feet. And I looked
Speaker 1: into this company that made the ball most called Lord Jones,
Speaker 1: and I noticed that they had a tincture. And I
Speaker 1: noticed at a lot of people online had been saying
Speaker 1: that it helps with anxiety because it generally has a
Speaker 1: calming effect, and I am a very anxious person. You
Speaker 1: noticed a real change, How did it make you feel?
Speaker 1: And did it take a while for you to notice
Speaker 1: the effects. It was like nothing I had ever tried. Okay,
Speaker 1: so I did not notice it immediately. But what I
Speaker 1: noticed about after the first I don't know, week or so,
Speaker 1: when I drive home from work because I raised two
Speaker 1: little girls, I'm on my way home from work going
Speaker 1: through Okay, I need to remember to buy a new
Speaker 1: lunch pail because that one got stinky. Or I need
Speaker 1: to remember to replace the apples because they'll have no
Speaker 1: apples for their lunches, like all these silly little things
Speaker 1: like you know so and so neat the dentist appointment,
Speaker 1: And I'm just going through this sort of mental frantic
Speaker 1: list on my way home to get back into mom mode.
Speaker 1: And about after the first week, I noticed I was
Speaker 1: just enjoying the radio and I wasn't finding myself any
Speaker 1: less efficient at home. The dentist appointment was still being made,
Speaker 1: the lunch pail will still be going to ask you
Speaker 1: who bought the apples. It was still me. It wasn't
Speaker 1: a laziness at all. It was simply a slightly calmer
Speaker 1: version of me that didn't need to worry frantically in
Speaker 1: order to complete a task. Did I notice the effects
Speaker 1: right away, No, because there's nothing that you can feel.
Speaker 1: But what I did notice is I wasn't having these
Speaker 1: about these sort of targeted bouts of anxiety when I
Speaker 1: was alone, like in my car, and that's when it
Speaker 1: hit me. I was like, oh, this is working for me.
Speaker 1: Do you ever wonder, Christian, that it might be a
Speaker 1: placebo effect? You know, I do think about that a lot, actually,
Speaker 1: because I feel like I would be a candidate for pebo,
Speaker 1: to be honest. Um. But I have tried a lot
Speaker 1: of things. I mean I I've tried and I like
Speaker 1: taking adaptagen sometimes for my anxiety. I've tried like every
Speaker 1: little supplement or vitamin that comes on the market, and
Speaker 1: I haven't noticed as much of a worry free Christen
Speaker 1: as I do with CBD. You know, I know, Christen,
Speaker 1: you've also been open about the fact that you like
Speaker 1: to smoke plot occasionally. Is there a difference in terms
Speaker 1: of the results? Oh, A bajillion degree of difference like this,
Speaker 1: Taking CBD you have you are fully functioning. You can
Speaker 1: drive your car, you can make a science project with
Speaker 1: your child, you can you know, take the l sets,
Speaker 1: you can do whatever. There is nothing that messes with
Speaker 1: your brain. You feel completely and utterly like yourself. You're
Speaker 1: just breathing a little easier and with THHD when you
Speaker 1: take something that has C HC and CBD, when you
Speaker 1: use a vape or take a gummy or you know,
Speaker 1: smoke a joint or something that has an effect on
Speaker 1: your mind, and that world is totally different now from
Speaker 1: the BBD world. And I, to be honest, like both.
Speaker 1: But I'm clearly am raising two children. I'm not smoking
Speaker 1: pot every day, you know what I mean? And before
Speaker 1: we go, I just wanted to ask you, why do
Speaker 1: you think this is such a hot trend right now?
Speaker 1: Why do you think that everywhere you look, at least
Speaker 1: for me, you've just see C B D a couple
Speaker 1: of things. I think that speaks to a lot of
Speaker 1: people speaking highly of it and seeing results. I don't
Speaker 1: think something that's a snake oil gets this much heat
Speaker 1: around it. I also think we are in a state
Speaker 1: as humans where there is a lot of depression and
Speaker 1: anxiety going around. People are going really fast. We have
Speaker 1: our phones. We've been going at such a fast pace
Speaker 1: as human beings. We are requiring things that calm us.
Speaker 1: And for people that don't want to drink or do drugs,
Speaker 1: this much like mindfulness is a very easy, simple effective
Speaker 1: for me solution to being less anxious during the day.
Speaker 1: It worked for Kristen Bell, but that doesn't necessarily mean
Speaker 1: it works for everyone. I decided to try some CBD
Speaker 1: products myself, and I got a boatload of them to
Speaker 1: prepare for this episode. I even got my husband, John
Speaker 1: Mulner involved and made him try a CBD cream for
Speaker 1: his aching feet. I did my left foot because my
Speaker 1: left foot typically bothers me more than my right foot,
Speaker 1: and so I just put some of that CBD cream
Speaker 1: on my left foot and it felt pretty good this morning.
Speaker 1: It didn't ache really, and it sometimes aches in the morning. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you can do it. You're going to try it again.
Speaker 1: I would try it again. Now I've been walking around
Speaker 1: for a few hours and it's a little it's a
Speaker 1: little laky, but um, it felt pretty good this morning,
Speaker 1: and because it was morning, I decided to fix myself
Speaker 1: a Friday. Did you know they even have c D
Speaker 1: d olive oil. I also tried some CBD drops by
Speaker 1: this tincture peppermint, and it says high cb D. Place
Speaker 1: one full dropper under the tongue hold for sixty seconds
Speaker 1: and then swallow. I've got a full dropper full um
Speaker 1: under my comp I have to be honest, I didn't
Speaker 1: really notice a big difference. Having said that, I'm not
Speaker 1: sure I used it regularly enough for it to have
Speaker 1: an effect, but clearly it is helping a lot of people.
Speaker 1: And I wanted to understand why We're gonna take a
Speaker 1: quick break here. We'll be back in a minute to
Speaker 1: weed out CBD fact from fiction. Get it weed out.
Speaker 1: I reached out to the go to woman for all
Speaker 1: things CBD, Dr Yasmine heard she's the director of the
Speaker 1: Addiction Institute at Mount Sinai and a professor of psychiatry, neuroscience,
Speaker 1: and pharmacological sciences. I asked her to explain and layman's terms,
Speaker 1: how CBD works. Understanding how CBD works is also challenging
Speaker 1: for scientists. Many people are trying to figure out how
Speaker 1: it works. We do know that it is a molecule
Speaker 1: that's a cannabinoid that's found in the cannabis and hemp plants,
Speaker 1: and it binds two receptors in our body and brain
Speaker 1: that are regulating different transmitter systems. And what I mean
Speaker 1: by that is that it will change the activity of
Speaker 1: cells in different parts of the brain. So t HC
Speaker 1: is a psychoactive component on the cannabis plant. That's why
Speaker 1: people get the high. The intoxication that binds to the
Speaker 1: cannabinoid receptors in our brain and our body. CBD actually
Speaker 1: doesn't bind to those receptors that cause the intoxication. But
Speaker 1: what it does is that it tweaks different neuro transmitter systems,
Speaker 1: So it will turn up one transmitter system and turn
Speaker 1: down another so that it stays in homeostasis in a way.
Speaker 1: So neurotransmitters are responsible for things like pain or anxiety
Speaker 1: or depression exactly, and CBD will alter those transmitter systems
Speaker 1: that are involved in many different functions as you said, pain, mood, anxiety.
Speaker 1: So it has a broad mechanism of action and that's
Speaker 1: one of the things that's been fascinating and frustrating for
Speaker 1: the scientists, and that's why we all can figure it
Speaker 1: out completely. CBD has been shown to be really effective
Speaker 1: in a in a couple of very important areas. What
Speaker 1: are those. One of the disorders absolutely that is clear
Speaker 1: from clinical trials is childhood epilepsy seizure disorders. So these
Speaker 1: caesar disorders such as travaise, CBD is now an f
Speaker 1: D approved medication for them. So that has think significantly
Speaker 1: moved the field in believing that CBD has medicinal properties.
Speaker 1: What about opioid addiction. I know there's exciting research that
Speaker 1: you've done about that. We have conducted small clinical studies
Speaker 1: that have shown that CBD decreased craving in people who
Speaker 1: have an opiate use disorder. It decreased their anxiety related
Speaker 1: to their craving as well, which are two key features
Speaker 1: for why people relapse. So we're now going to start
Speaker 1: a large clinical trial and we'll see whether or not
Speaker 1: it replicates. But a lot of the work not only
Speaker 1: from our group but from others, have now started to
Speaker 1: show that CBD does have potential to decrease craving and
Speaker 1: opioid users. So those are two very very exciting areas
Speaker 1: and that should counter this notion that it's just snake oil. Right, Absolutely,
Speaker 1: CBD is not snake oil. There are people trying to
Speaker 1: make it snake oil in promising that it can change
Speaker 1: every single thing in our society. Clearly, it seems CBD
Speaker 1: holds a lot of promise for a variety of conditions
Speaker 1: and that's not lost on people who are hoping to
Speaker 1: cash in. And no wonder, the market is projected to
Speaker 1: reach twenty billion with the b BY So what is
Speaker 1: your concern about this growing industry and the fact that
Speaker 1: it's being sold in so many different forms for so
Speaker 1: many different problems. The fact that you can buy CBD
Speaker 1: on your steak, in your coffee and water, even mess
Speaker 1: Gara their CBD mascara, theres CBD mascara, and sadly there's
Speaker 1: also CBD tampons. The problem is all of this lends
Speaker 1: itself to many people thinking CBD is a snake oil,
Speaker 1: because how can one thing help with all of these
Speaker 1: different syndromes, disorders, even recreational quote unquote benefits. It can't.
Speaker 1: It's a fat like any thing else. So that many
Speaker 1: people are just trying to make money without ever having
Speaker 1: to prove that their CBD messcara works. They don't have
Speaker 1: to do that. They are just riding the wave of
Speaker 1: CBD being a fed and wanting a part of that
Speaker 1: industry because, like you said, it's gonna be billions of
Speaker 1: dollars for me. That does trivialize the potential medicinal properties
Speaker 1: that CBD is showing to have. So I want the
Speaker 1: public to understand that there may be quote unquote snake
Speaker 1: oil components out there regarding CBD that's very separate from
Speaker 1: the promise that CBD does show. So dr heard, what
Speaker 1: do you say to consumers? How do you know what works,
Speaker 1: what doesn't, what's worth trying, what's not? How much is
Speaker 1: too much to spend on these products? Well, the month
Speaker 1: do you want to spend is going to be up
Speaker 1: to you, Like I said, of fact, that someone will
Speaker 1: pay fifty dollars for our coffee, you know, that's up
Speaker 1: to them. However, for me, in terms of safety, that's
Speaker 1: the thing that's the issue. Right, So many people are
Speaker 1: consuming CBD and don't even know where it comes from,
Speaker 1: so they don't know if CBD is really in the
Speaker 1: product they've done studies where they have shown that the
Speaker 1: amount of CBD that's actually in the product that's compared
Speaker 1: to the label don't match, and in fact those products
Speaker 1: might even contain things like lead and pesticides. So the
Speaker 1: public needs to be aware. They have to do their
Speaker 1: due diligence because now everybody and their mother is getting
Speaker 1: into the CBD industry because of being a fat and
Speaker 1: the profits that are there, So it is not as
Speaker 1: regulated as it should be, and I think the FDA
Speaker 1: they're starting to consider what types of regulations that will
Speaker 1: be needed for CBD. Why isn't it regulated? I don't
Speaker 1: think that the FDA realized how fast this was going
Speaker 1: to explode and that they needed to be ahead of
Speaker 1: this wave rather than behind it. So they're now catching
Speaker 1: up and will start making so sort of guidelines. I
Speaker 1: absolutely think that no company should be allowed to say
Speaker 1: that CBD can do X, Y or Z unless they
Speaker 1: prove it. This seems like a good time for a break,
Speaker 1: so we'll be back in a moment. Rob Rosenheck and
Speaker 1: Cindy Capa Bianco are the husband and wife co founders
Speaker 1: of Lord Jones, the CBD company. Kristen Bell mentioned Rob
Speaker 1: told me they'd be happy to have more regulation because
Speaker 1: consumers need to know that the products that they're buying
Speaker 1: are safe, that they're manufactured in a safe way, that
Speaker 1: they're properly labeled, that the dosage is accurate, just like
Speaker 1: any other food or any other drug. People want a
Speaker 1: regulated system. They want a set of rules to play by.
Speaker 1: They want to be able to comply with regulations and
Speaker 1: um and put out products that are safe. Robin Cindy
Speaker 1: now run a multimillion dollar empire. They start it out
Speaker 1: in medical marijuana, but soon found that the real gold
Speaker 1: could come from another part of the plant. There was
Speaker 1: this other count of ainoid we started to read about
Speaker 1: called CBD, and it was associated with all of these
Speaker 1: health and wellness benefits, and we became obsessed with it,
Speaker 1: and then we started to experiment, and so the first
Speaker 1: thing we did was make combinations of CBD and th
Speaker 1: HC and so our most popular product was this five
Speaker 1: to one ratio, so it had five parts of CBD
Speaker 1: to just one part of THHD, and we made that
Speaker 1: both in skincare and in ingestibles, and it became our
Speaker 1: most popular product formulation. We first introduced hemp derived CBD
Speaker 1: only products, so they were our same formulations of skincare
Speaker 1: or confections, and we made those available in two thousand seventeen,
Speaker 1: and in one month the business grew larger than our
Speaker 1: entire THHD business, and we realized that was our future.
Speaker 1: Why do you think this CDD business and market has
Speaker 1: absolutely exploded? They're basically two reasons for it. The first
Speaker 1: is the whole legalization movement of cannabis, So that's been
Speaker 1: happening for twenty years, and more consumers are aware of it,
Speaker 1: more consumers are in favor of it. A majority of
Speaker 1: Americans have access to some form of cannabis in the
Speaker 1: state that they live. A majority of Republicans are in
Speaker 1: favor of legalization. That truly is an issue that unites us.
Speaker 1: And the second piece is the passage of the two
Speaker 1: thousand eighteen Farm Bill. So it made these products available
Speaker 1: at the same time that people were curious about them,
Speaker 1: and that opened up the floodgate. You sent me some samples,
Speaker 1: but wow, your products are expensive. Your gum drops cost
Speaker 1: fifty a pack, your oils cost up to a hundred bucks.
Speaker 1: Could chang rob CBD is an expensive ingredient if you
Speaker 1: look at all of the CBD products that are out there,
Speaker 1: ores are actually comparably priced. There's a couple of things
Speaker 1: that consumers should be aware of, their different kinds of
Speaker 1: CBD and different methods of extracting CBD. So when you
Speaker 1: grow hemp plants, you get this giant plant. There's a
Speaker 1: lot of biomass, but you only get a very tiny
Speaker 1: amount of CBD from that plant. And supply and demand
Speaker 1: it is, and we don't have enough supply of hemp
Speaker 1: right now to provide the demand for CBD. But when
Speaker 1: you extract it, you only get a little bit, so
Speaker 1: it's an expensive ingredient. The other thing is there's two
Speaker 1: different main ways to extract CBD. You can extract the
Speaker 1: oil from the plant, or you can distill it down
Speaker 1: into what's called an isolate, which is just pure cbd.
Speaker 1: It doesn't have the other turpenes and plant waxes and
Speaker 1: constituent components of the plant. Isolate is a more refined
Speaker 1: form of CBD that's cheaper and not as effective. So
Speaker 1: you want to get either a full spectrum or a
Speaker 1: broad spectrum oil that's sourced from domestically grown hemp, and
Speaker 1: that CBD is more costly and that's why some CBD
Speaker 1: products are priced higher. Meanwhile, Rob has been really open
Speaker 1: about his depression and talking about what's helped him deal
Speaker 1: with it. Can I ask you a personal question, of course,
Speaker 1: how often do you use CBD and do you still
Speaker 1: use cannabis for your depression or do you feel that
Speaker 1: CBD has helped you enough. I do use CBD, and
Speaker 1: I do use th hc U CBD every day. I
Speaker 1: put it on my face, I do why. It makes
Speaker 1: my skin feel nice, and I take it in the
Speaker 1: evening to help you sleep, help me sleep sometimes. But
Speaker 1: for your depression, you still feel still use cannabis regularly,
Speaker 1: a couple of times a week. I really enjoy it.
Speaker 1: It's legal now in California, and it takes the edge
Speaker 1: off I don't drink alcohol, I don't smoke tobacco, but
Speaker 1: I do enjoy cannabis. One thing is clear. We're very
Speaker 1: much in the early days of CBD. But for those
Speaker 1: who suffer from a whole host of problems from anxiety
Speaker 1: to pain to addiction, and for people like Dr Heard
Speaker 1: who are trying to help them, this new frontier offers
Speaker 1: tremendous hope. What are you most excited about when it
Speaker 1: comes to cb D. I'm actually most excited by the
Speaker 1: fact that more researchers are getting into this so that
Speaker 1: we will be able to finally tease out one how
Speaker 1: CBD fully works and have more insight into what disorders
Speaker 1: and symptoms it might be beneficial for. I am excited
Speaker 1: because I'll start to conduct some clinical trials of our own,
Speaker 1: really large ones that we just got a grant for
Speaker 1: from the n i H National Institutes of Health, and
Speaker 1: we'll finally know whether or not, in a large population,
Speaker 1: does it really decrease craving in people with an opiate
Speaker 1: use disorder? And that's exciting for me. Next Question with
Speaker 1: Katie Couric is a production of I Heart Radio and
Speaker 1: Katie Curic Media. The executive producers are Katie Couric, Lauren
Speaker 1: Bright Pacheco, Julie Douglas, and Tyler Klang. Our show producers
Speaker 1: are Bethan Macalouso and Courtney Litz. The supervising producer is
Speaker 1: Dylan Fagin. Associate producers are Emily Pinto and Derek Clemens.
Speaker 1: Editing is by Dylan Fagan and Lowell Berlante. Our researcher
Speaker 1: is Barbara Keene. For more information on today's episode. Go
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