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Speaker 1: zod or visits sleep number dot com to find the

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Speaker 1: store near you and be sure to tell them George

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Speaker 1: Nordy sent you. Now Here's a highlight from coast to

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Speaker 1: coast am on I Heart Radio and welcome back to

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Speaker 1: coast to coast, George, Nor are you with you? Matt

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Speaker 1: Rick Till with us Pulletzer Prize winning New York Times

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Speaker 1: journalists bestselling writer of mysteries and thrillers. Books are fast paced,

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Speaker 1: character centered stories in which things aren't always what they

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Speaker 1: seem to be. In the back drop for these books

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Speaker 1: the modern world technologies everywhere. In his books, everything moves

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Speaker 1: at lightning speed, from conspiracies to business violence, technology being

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Speaker 1: our slave or has it become our dark master? The

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Speaker 1: books relate to Matt's journalism. He won the Pulitzer Prize

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Speaker 1: in two thousand and ten for a series of stories

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Speaker 1: on distracted driving. The next year, he wrote on acclaimed

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Speaker 1: series for The New York Times called Your Brain on Computers,

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Speaker 1: exploring how high technology use impacts our behavior and our brains.

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Speaker 1: And it is my pleasure to bring to the program

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Speaker 1: matt Rick Toll. Hello, Matthew, Hey George, how are you?

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Speaker 1: Calls me? Matthew? Okay, you and your mom? Where the me?

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Speaker 1: And that's it listening? That that would be cool. I

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Speaker 1: worked for the Pulitzers back in St. Louis back in

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Speaker 1: the seventy two and just a great family. I mean

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Speaker 1: and and their journalistic integrity is unmatched. Matt. It's just yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: I mean it really when you see you when you

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Speaker 1: see the amount of of journalism created a year, the

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Speaker 1: just the ones that rise at the top. I don't

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Speaker 1: mean to conclude myself, but but some of the stuff

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Speaker 1: is just extraordinary. It really has journalism changed because of

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Speaker 1: the Internet? Yeah, no question, And it's part of the backdrop.

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Speaker 1: Will wind up as part of the conspiracy in the

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Speaker 1: latest book. We have seen the fight for attention, the

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Speaker 1: brawl for attention cause all kinds of people who provide

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Speaker 1: information entertainment to change how they deliver it and and frankly,

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Speaker 1: to take on tactics that are well, I mean, what

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Speaker 1: do you think of what you see now in the media.

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Speaker 1: It's not like I'd like to say, it's not like

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Speaker 1: my day, not that I'm that old, but it's not

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Speaker 1: the same. It's not the same. I mean, I just

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Speaker 1: I just want to hit you with a stat that

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Speaker 1: is kind of blowing my mind, and it will show

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Speaker 1: you how far we've come. I think it's right now, Americans,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry. Last year spent about seventy seventy two point

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Speaker 1: five billion minutes a week George a week watching the news,

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Speaker 1: and that was an increase over the previous year. So

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Speaker 1: I think we're doing Why I say we, I don't

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Speaker 1: mean the New York Times per se or any particular institution,

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Speaker 1: but we're doing a lot of attention getting techniques and

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Speaker 1: and some of them can well they can be a

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Speaker 1: little destructive, to say the least. Yeah. Absolutely. A couple

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Speaker 1: of months ago, Matt the New York Times at a

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Speaker 1: great piece on our show and you know what we do,

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Speaker 1: and it was really put it in their Sunday magazine

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Speaker 1: section and it was really cool. I got to ask

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Speaker 1: you about your stories on distracted driving. Is that like

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Speaker 1: text messaging while driving and things like that? Messaging well driving? Well,

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Speaker 1: they speaking of things changing. You know when we when

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Speaker 1: I wrote that series in two thousand nine, text messaging

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Speaker 1: was was so novel in the car that we didn't

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Speaker 1: even have warning programs and say driver education campaign. Right now,

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Speaker 1: if you look at the statistics, Uh, what people will

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Speaker 1: acknowledge doing in the car? They will Facebook, They will

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Speaker 1: I don't have the statistics in front of me. I

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Speaker 1: can actually get them before our hours up, but uh,

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Speaker 1: they will snapchat two hours you're with me two hours

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Speaker 1: don't go any course, yeah, before these two hours. Let

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Speaker 1: me give you one stat though that came to mind

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Speaker 1: for me. And this is from a survey taken from

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Speaker 1: a T and T. You ready for this bad boy

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Speaker 1: of people And this is ages, I believe, eighteen thirty.

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Speaker 1: So it's not merely teens will admit taking selfies regularly. Well, drive, jeez,

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Speaker 1: could anything underscore the selfishness more? And and of course,

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Speaker 1: as your listeners know, um, you know the the you

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Speaker 1: can't conceivably be looking at the road and at the

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Speaker 1: same time, I mean, it's just you're you're a drive,

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Speaker 1: You're a wreck waiting to happen. Reminds me of a

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Speaker 1: Sammy Davis junior joke. And of course he had one

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Speaker 1: eye because he got into a horrible car accident going

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Speaker 1: from Vegas to Los Angeles. In those days, some of

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Speaker 1: the cars that you would steer had little handle sticking

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Speaker 1: out of the steering wheel and you could grasp it,

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Speaker 1: and and that that thing went right through his eye

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Speaker 1: and blinded him in one eye. While the story is,

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Speaker 1: and I think it's probably true, he got stopped for

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Speaker 1: speeding once by a state trooper on that same road

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Speaker 1: years later, and He rolled down his though, and the

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Speaker 1: guy said, oh, you're Sammy Davis Jr. And he said yes.

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Speaker 1: He said, well you know you're speeding. He says, what

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Speaker 1: do you want me to do? Watch the speedometer or

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Speaker 1: the road anything. I think they'd let him go. Are you?

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Speaker 1: Are you? I just I came up with it now

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Speaker 1: in the middle of the night. You ready for a

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Speaker 1: terrible ton Okay, if that happened with your phone, it

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Speaker 1: would truly be an iPhone. That's probably right, that works. Well,

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Speaker 1: Honolulu has just passed a law that takes effect in October.

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Speaker 1: You cannot walk in text anymore. No, is that is

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Speaker 1: that true? Yeah, they just passed it takes effect in October.

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Speaker 1: You cannot walk across the street right across the street

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Speaker 1: text messaging anymore. Well, look, let me let me address it.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it sounds amusing, but let me address it

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Speaker 1: on a on a serious note, and maybe even a

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Speaker 1: neurological note. First of all, I did a story a

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Speaker 1: few years ago showing um with using concrete evidence from

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Speaker 1: emergency rooms across the country, that walking and texting accidents

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Speaker 1: were on a market rise. They were actually going up

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Speaker 1: and and and pedestrian crashes at least in the while

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Speaker 1: I worked for the New York Times. I'm based in

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Speaker 1: the Bay Area in San Francisco, and there have been

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Speaker 1: a big increase in pedestrian car at Rex there, and

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Speaker 1: it's that's one of those cities where you have people

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Speaker 1: driving and people walking a lot. What is really going on?

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Speaker 1: Can I take you inside the brain a little bit? Please?

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Speaker 1: Let's do it? Well? Look, I mean big, big, first principles.

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Speaker 1: We started with the idea of attention. Everybody's trying to

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Speaker 1: get your attention by everybody, I mean all the media,

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Speaker 1: whether it's Google, whether it's Facebook. They make their their shareholders,

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Speaker 1: their quarters depend on your attention. This is about your eyeballs,

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Speaker 1: which they sell ads against or sometimes subscriptions, but much

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Speaker 1: more so adds. And they have effectively perfected the art

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Speaker 1: of keeping you engaged. How do they do that? Should

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Speaker 1: Should I do a little neuroscience? Huh? Look, let's let

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Speaker 1: me let me take you back. Let's let's do a

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Speaker 1: little um neuroscience that I learned while writing some of

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Speaker 1: this stuff. I want you to picture yourself as a

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Speaker 1: cave person and you are looking at a fire and

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Speaker 1: you get a tap on the shoulder from behind. You

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Speaker 1: I would just ask you, George, could you ignore the

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Speaker 1: tap on the shoulder from behind? And why not? I

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Speaker 1: would just have to turn, you'd feel it on your back.

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Speaker 1: You'd know there was something or somebody there, and you

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Speaker 1: want to find out who it is. Is it is it?

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Speaker 1: Is it a potential mate? Is it? Is it someone

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Speaker 1: who's a threat? Is it someone warning you of a

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Speaker 1: law ofstpillity. It's almost instinctive. It's bypasses your will pout.

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Speaker 1: I would hope for me it would be a cave woman,

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Speaker 1: but you never know a cave I mean they you

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Speaker 1: know you have a beautiful wife, George. No I oh um? So? Uh?

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Speaker 1: You know you're cell phone is in this respect, it

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Speaker 1: is a proverbial tap on the shoulder from anyone anywhere

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Speaker 1: in the world. So if you think this very same

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Speaker 1: mechanism is at play when it rings, you are virtually

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Speaker 1: as helpless as if someone were to come up behind

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Speaker 1: you and tap on your shoulder. Is that your job?

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Speaker 1: Is that your wife? Is that your kid? Asking for something?

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Speaker 1: Is it? You know? Is it? Is it the Coast

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Speaker 1: to Coast show saying it's time for air or whatever

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Speaker 1: it might be. So if you just take that mechanism alone,

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Speaker 1: and you think about how powerful the idea of uncertainty

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Speaker 1: or novelty is. You start to understand the helplessness that

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Speaker 1: you're up against with your device absolutely, and it's it's

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Speaker 1: going to get worse, isn't it Well? And and it's

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Speaker 1: it gets worse because I've just added another factor. First

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Speaker 1: of all, you've just simply got the uncertainty principle. But

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Speaker 1: then you've got the nature of the information coming in.

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Speaker 1: It's social information. And if you if we just go

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Speaker 1: back to that cave person, may I give you one

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Speaker 1: other example. The look if you and I are and

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Speaker 1: if you and I can't communicate, social information is so valuable.

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Speaker 1: If you put your hand, If George puts his hand

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Speaker 1: in the fire and burns it, and you can't tell

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Speaker 1: me that you burned your hand because we don't we're

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Speaker 1: not able to communicate, then not only do you die

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Speaker 1: from an infection, but I put my hand in there

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Speaker 1: and I die and you get it to right. So

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Speaker 1: now the information on your phone so social. That's why

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Speaker 1: the person walking across the street in why is partly

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Speaker 1: unable to even look up. I mean, I don't know

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Speaker 1: that legislators has it has gone through their minds, per

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Speaker 1: se that people are unable to tear themselves away from

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Speaker 1: their devices. But they're seeing the results in their emotion

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Speaker 1: in their emergency rooms, among their constituents, and they're seeing

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Speaker 1: it when they drive down the road and they go,

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Speaker 1: Holy child. That person next to me has a baby

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Speaker 1: in the back and he or she is texting. That

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Speaker 1: can't be right. I've seen people matt walk across the street,

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Speaker 1: running into polls, sending text messages they're not looking. I've

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Speaker 1: seen a couple at dinner, two of them texting, maybe

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Speaker 1: themselves because they don't know how to talk with each other,

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Speaker 1: but I mean, they just don't look at it. Now.

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Speaker 1: On the other hand, I've got to tell you, the technology,

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Speaker 1: when it works is absolutely riveting. Absolutely. I was in Everett,

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Speaker 1: Washington this weekend. I had a live stage show event

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Speaker 1: and Tom was driving and we had to get back

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Speaker 1: to the airport to get back to Los Angeles. We

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Speaker 1: didn't know where we were. He talks into his phone

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Speaker 1: and he gives the address and this voice comes on

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Speaker 1: and gives him pinpoint directions to get to the airport

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Speaker 1: from Everett, Washington to Seattle. Now, to me, that's amazing technology.

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Speaker 1: Well not just amazing, but but his life saving in

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Speaker 1: the respect that if he if he had had to

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Speaker 1: look at a map, that that was much more dangerous.

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Speaker 1: Just to be full stop here when I say what's next,

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Speaker 1: this is not a screed against technology in any respect.

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Speaker 1: It's just a call to recognize the forces that are

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Speaker 1: work at work, and I might liken them to like

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Speaker 1: the industrialization of food. You know, that meant more calories

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Speaker 1: to more people, but it also meant the perfection of

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Speaker 1: hyper palatable, highly flavored junk food that is leading to diabetes.

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Speaker 1: In that same respect, you would say technology is amazing.

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Speaker 1: You and I are having a far flung conversation on

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Speaker 1: a serious issue with what six hundred stations, Jack Hunter

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Speaker 1: and twenty millions of listeners listening to you right now,

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Speaker 1: and all of that owes to technology. That's all good.

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Speaker 1: But if either one of us were to be, you know,

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Speaker 1: hit by a driver who was taken a selfie tomorrow,

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Speaker 1: that would be the functional equivalent of the junk food. Yeah. No, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at

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Speaker 1: one a m. Eastern and go to Coast to Coast

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Speaker 1: am dot com for more