1 00:00:01,639 --> 00:00:06,280 Speaker 1: Now from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound On. 2 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:10,000 Speaker 1: We are in a moment of massively high debt levels 3 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:15,160 Speaker 1: and massively high inflations. Inflationary pressures weren't caused by economic policy. 4 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 1: A lot of them are budge by a pandemic. We 5 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:20,320 Speaker 1: can't look back to that either. Bloomberg Sound On, Politics, 6 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:24,159 Speaker 1: Policy and Perspective from DC's top name. There is so 7 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:27,800 Speaker 1: much speculation right now about the Department of Justice, and 8 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 1: it's under a haze of questions. Burden is on Congress 9 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:35,960 Speaker 1: to come up with an immigration plan that's comprehensive. Bloomberg 10 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:41,919 Speaker 1: Sound On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. The conservatives 11 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:44,959 Speaker 1: on the Supreme Court are skeptical about the Biden administration's 12 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:48,479 Speaker 1: plan to cancel student debt. Kevin McCarthy is waiting for 13 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 1: Joe Biden to call him about the debt limit. And 14 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 1: Ron De Santis's book is a seller. He's hitting the road, 15 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 1: but we're not calling it a book tour or a 16 00:00:56,200 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 1: presidential campaign. I'm Jack Fitzpatrick from Bloomberg Government, filling in 17 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:03,160 Speaker 1: for Joe Matthew. This is Sound On. We've got a 18 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:05,680 Speaker 1: bunch of good guests. We're going to talk to Greg Store, 19 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 1: Bloomberg's reporter on the Supreme Court beat about the latest today, 20 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:12,920 Speaker 1: as well as Sandy Baum from the Urban Institute. Congressman 21 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:15,040 Speaker 1: Jody Arrington is going to call in. He's the new 22 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 1: budget chair. We'll get the latest on debt limit talks. 23 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 1: And of course I've got Rick Davis and Jeannie she 24 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 1: and Zano are Bloomberg Politics contributors who are going to 25 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 1: give me a book report on the Courage of Freedom. 26 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 1: We are joined now by Greg Store, who covers the 27 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 1: Supreme Court for Bloomberg, to give us the latest on 28 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:37,679 Speaker 1: today's arguments. Greg, really happy to have you on to 29 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:41,160 Speaker 1: get your insights. It sounds like things are not breaking 30 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 1: the Biden administration's way. How much skepticism was there today, Well, 31 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 1: a fair amount. Of course, it's a conservative dominated court, 32 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 1: and they were generally, perhaps even entirely skeptical that the 33 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 1: President in the Education Department have the authority to do 34 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 1: something so sweepy based on a statute that was enacted 35 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:08,800 Speaker 1: back after nine to eleven for what many thought was 36 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:12,639 Speaker 1: a narrower purpose to let the Secretary of Education make 37 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 1: some minor changes to student loans rather than trying to 38 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 1: wipe out hundreds of billions of dollars. Now I understand 39 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 1: there are two relevant challenges here. Can you briefly walk 40 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 1: us through. I mean, is one stronger than the other 41 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:31,520 Speaker 1: or are they both absolutely in play? One is probably 42 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: stronger than the other enough because there isn't Achilles heel 43 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 1: to these challenges. It's the question of is there a 44 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 1: right to sue in the first place. So one challenge 45 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:46,079 Speaker 1: is being pressed by six Republican controlled states, another pressed 46 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:49,679 Speaker 1: by two individual borrowers who say that they didn't get 47 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:52,799 Speaker 1: they're being deprived of the full benefits of the program. 48 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 1: And in both cases they have to be able to 49 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:59,519 Speaker 1: show that they're suffering some sort of injury from this 50 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 1: an administration policy, and the States, the conventional wisdom is, 51 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 1: have a stronger argument on that front. And there was 52 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:12,240 Speaker 1: some pushback from particularly Justice Amy Tony Barrett among the 53 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 1: conservatives as to whether the states do have that legal 54 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:21,360 Speaker 1: right to sue over this policy. So if the policy survives, 55 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 1: that's probably going to be the region is that the 56 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:27,079 Speaker 1: court would say, no, this is not something where the 57 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 1: States were injured and therefore they can't sue. So am 58 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 1: I understanding it correctly that maybe the skepticism on the 59 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 1: merits or on the substance of this decision, and even 60 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 1: the legal merits may not be relevant. It sounds like 61 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 1: the key X factor here is that question of whether 62 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 1: they have the right to sue. Is that is that 63 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:49,840 Speaker 1: it toss up a fifty fifty call or where do 64 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 1: you think that stands? That's a fair way to describe it. 65 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 1: I don't think I would at least say that's sort 66 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 1: of the key question in the case. I don't know 67 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 1: that I would say fifty fifty. I did hear any 68 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:04,120 Speaker 1: other conservative other than Amy Coney Barrett suggesting that they 69 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 1: didn't think the state's headstanding, And you know, one vote's 70 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:10,119 Speaker 1: not going to be enough. In addition to the three 71 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 1: liberal justices, the administration's going to have to get two 72 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:17,159 Speaker 1: conservative justices. So while that might be their best shot, 73 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 1: it's by no means a probability based on what I 74 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 1: heard today. All right, Well, then on the substance itself, 75 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 1: I understand a few different complaints came up. What would 76 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 1: you say was the headline that sums up or the 77 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: most important critique by these conservative justices of the program, well, 78 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:43,839 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court over the last few years, this Court 79 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:47,719 Speaker 1: has talked a lot about something called the major questions doctrine, 80 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 1: and the idea is basically, if the president or an 81 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 1: executive branch agency is going to do something with really 82 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 1: big practical and political effects, we want to see a 83 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 1: clear authorization from Congress before we're going to let them 84 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 1: do that. And that was sort of the sense that 85 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:08,919 Speaker 1: was pervading over this that the conservative justices didn't seem 86 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:12,159 Speaker 1: to think that that clear authorization was there in the statute. 87 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 1: What the statute says is the Secretary of Education can 88 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 1: wave or modify some provision in the student loan laws 89 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 1: in order to keep people from being in a worse 90 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 1: position because of some national emergency. And the kind of 91 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 1: the core question, the biggest question on the merits is 92 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: whether that phrase wave or modify could could extend this far. 93 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 1: And it didn't seem like the Conservatives thought that it 94 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 1: could wave and modify. Those are two key terms I'm 95 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:46,279 Speaker 1: going to really be looking into. We'll get a dictionary 96 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:48,839 Speaker 1: and see exactly what they mean. Greg, Thank you so much. 97 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 1: Sandy Baum is joining us. She's a senior fellow at 98 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 1: the Urban Institute, very knowledgeable about these student loan issues. 99 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 1: Doctor Baumb thank you so much for joining us. I'm 100 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:03,279 Speaker 1: curious off the bat if you have if you think 101 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 1: the Biden administration has any compelling answers to these concerns 102 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 1: raised by the conservative justices about the size of this 103 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:15,840 Speaker 1: action and the legality of it. Right. Well, first, thank 104 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 1: you for having me. I'm happy to be here. The 105 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:20,840 Speaker 1: thing is that there are really two sets of issues here, 106 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: one of the legal issues and then there's the policy issue. 107 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 1: And the legal issues are really quite separate. I mean, 108 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:31,160 Speaker 1: is there do the plantiffs have standing? I think that's 109 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:34,480 Speaker 1: very questionable whether they have standing. But I'm not a lawyer, 110 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 1: and the same is true. There's a big difference of 111 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 1: opinion about whether the president has the right to do this, 112 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: whether that's justified. Those questions, again are controversial legal questions, 113 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:51,599 Speaker 1: But the question of the policy and whether it would 114 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 1: be a good thing to do this loan forgiveness is 115 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:57,280 Speaker 1: a different question. And it's hard to know whether the 116 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:02,839 Speaker 1: justices are actually separating these two us right. And of course, 117 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:04,480 Speaker 1: they're going to be a lot of people who are 118 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:07,920 Speaker 1: going to be very not just disappointed, but have their 119 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 1: lives quite disrupted if the promise that was made to 120 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 1: them that their debt would be forgiven. Then you know 121 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 1: this doesn't happen, and so that's a problem. The Biden 122 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 1: administration designed this as carefully as possible to make it 123 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 1: as fair as possible. But that said, it's a questionable 124 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 1: policy overall to do blanket loan forgiveness. There are a 125 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 1: lot of people who need their debt forgiven. It's not clear. 126 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 1: I mean, many borrowers don't WOKO. Many borrowers are affluent 127 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 1: college graduates who don't need debt forgiveness. So this is 128 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 1: probably a political move, not the best public policy. But 129 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 1: now we're in the middle of it, it's a very 130 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 1: different thing to stop it in the middle. We'll tell 131 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 1: us more on your stance on the distributional effects and 132 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 1: why you seem to think this isn't necessarily perfect public policy. Well, 133 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 1: it would be a good thing to get there about 134 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 1: a third of all borrowers oh less than ten thousand dollars, 135 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 1: and to get them off the roles before we restart 136 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:07,240 Speaker 1: payments would probably be good for them and good for 137 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 1: the system. That said, student debt is just proportionately helmed 138 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 1: by people on the upper half of the income distribution. 139 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 1: That's because the people who borrow a lot of money. 140 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 1: Are people who were in college for a long time 141 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 1: or in many cases went to graduate school. There are 142 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: many people who are struggling with all kinds of financial problems, 143 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: who say couldn't afford to go to college and don't 144 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 1: have students debt, or who worked a lot while they 145 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:32,680 Speaker 1: were in college and so didn't borrow, or who just 146 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:35,360 Speaker 1: finished repaying their student loans. So there are a lot 147 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:38,320 Speaker 1: of inequities in making this ten thousand or twenty thousand 148 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 1: dollars handout to this group of people as opposed to 149 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 1: another group of people who are struggling a lot. I 150 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 1: think there are a lot of questions about it. It's 151 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 1: easy to find people who need this help, but it's 152 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:52,080 Speaker 1: also easy to find people who need the help and 153 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 1: won't get it, or who are going to be given 154 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:56,720 Speaker 1: a handout here who really don't need it. Well and 155 00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:00,680 Speaker 1: Justice Neo Gorsage seemed to touch on similar issues. Again, 156 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 1: there's a difference between the legality and the merits of 157 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 1: the policy in its own right. But just as Gorsich 158 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:10,319 Speaker 1: had this to say about who this benefits and who 159 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:13,840 Speaker 1: it doesn't, people who have paid their loans and people 160 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:16,200 Speaker 1: who are not eligible for loans in the first place, 161 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:19,320 Speaker 1: and that a half a trillion dollars is being diverted 162 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 1: to one group of favored persons over others. So, Sandy Baum, 163 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 1: I guess to close, what do you I shouldn't ask 164 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:33,200 Speaker 1: you what you expect to happen, but you you've touched 165 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:35,080 Speaker 1: on the fact that this is already in place, can 166 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:37,600 Speaker 1: you can you, I guess put a finer point on 167 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:41,080 Speaker 1: what does this mean for an individual who is wondering 168 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 1: what they are going to have to pay back or 169 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:47,080 Speaker 1: not pay back? Right well, for individuals who were really 170 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 1: cheered by the idea that they were going to have 171 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 1: ten or twenty thousand dollars of their jet were given 172 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:53,679 Speaker 1: and from any of them have their jet like that, 173 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 1: this is going to be a really difficult thing if 174 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court says, sorry, we're not going to do it. 175 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:03,680 Speaker 1: So it will be difficult for many people. And it's 176 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:06,720 Speaker 1: a mess that has happened in the way that it 177 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: has happened. But again, the Supreme Court should not be 178 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 1: trying to decide whether this is the public policy. The 179 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:15,320 Speaker 1: Supreme Court should be thinking about whether these people really 180 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 1: have standing to sue, and whether the President has authorization 181 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 1: to implement this policy or not right. Sandy Baum from 182 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:26,959 Speaker 1: the Urban Institute, Senior fellow at the Urban Institute, thank 183 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:29,160 Speaker 1: you so much for joining us. Let's bring in the panel. 184 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:31,679 Speaker 1: We've got Rick Davis and Jeannie she and Zano are 185 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Politics contributors here. We've got a lot of policy, 186 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 1: politics legality to discuss. Genie, I'm just curious where you 187 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 1: stand on the characterization of this that we heard from 188 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 1: Sandy Baum that this really has become a mess because 189 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:51,920 Speaker 1: of that that in decision, the unclear nature of how 190 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 1: this is going to affect people's finances. Has this become 191 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 1: a mess? It has become a mess, Jack, I thought 192 00:10:57,520 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 1: that Sandy put it beautifully. You're talking about one in 193 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:02,960 Speaker 1: five Americans with this type of debt sixty p sixty 194 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 1: almost seventy percent of them, I think under forty. And 195 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 1: we hear that if the Supreme Court doesn't support the 196 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 1: Biden administration and repayment is due, it'll come do sixty 197 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:17,960 Speaker 1: days after the decision. The decision probably as we assume, 198 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:20,800 Speaker 1: comes in May or June. That is going to be 199 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:24,320 Speaker 1: a big mess. But the weirdness of the politics here 200 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:27,680 Speaker 1: is that you can hear inklings of Democrats saying we 201 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:30,599 Speaker 1: may win even if we lose, because nothing's going to 202 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 1: anger young people and get them out to vote potentially 203 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 1: in twenty four differ Democrats then if they are forced 204 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 1: to pay this back and it's a big number, four 205 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 1: hundred and thirty billion dollars worth of loans. Yeah, this 206 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 1: seems to be an issue with a lot of enthusiasm. Generally, 207 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:48,439 Speaker 1: the public palling seems to be divided. Rick, what's your 208 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:53,120 Speaker 1: takeaway on especially if this gets blocked by the Supreme Court? 209 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 1: How does that play in public politics? What's the response 210 00:11:57,080 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: in America across the country. Yeah, it's very hard to tell, 211 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 1: Like what the demographics of the you know, twenty six 212 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:05,559 Speaker 1: million people who've already applied for the for the break 213 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:08,199 Speaker 1: on their on their loans looks like right now. And 214 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 1: as Genie points out, I mean, you know, over forty 215 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:13,680 Speaker 1: million are affective. That's a lot of people. Uh, And 216 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 1: and so there will be I assume some kind of 217 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:22,080 Speaker 1: impact politically as it relates to this. If you're conservative 218 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 1: and you're looking at you know, how young people vote, 219 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:27,199 Speaker 1: and this is probably predominantly people under the age of 220 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 1: thirty five. You've got a pretty good idea where that 221 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 1: demographic is headed on a good day. And so I 222 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 1: think that you're you're you're probably not putting much of 223 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:38,680 Speaker 1: a hole in the bottom of the boat. As far 224 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 1: as trying to keep Republicans on board, I would say too. 225 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:44,880 Speaker 1: You know, the one thing this court is looking at 226 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 1: a lot, uh since the Conservative takeover is the separation 227 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 1: of powers. You know, has the presidency become more powerful 228 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:54,120 Speaker 1: than it needs to be and is the will of 229 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 1: Congress being thwarted in the process. So in addition, as 230 00:12:57,280 --> 00:12:59,200 Speaker 1: Sandy said, like trying to figure out what the will 231 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 1: of Congress was as it relates to the standing law. 232 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 1: The question then is you would this congress, you know, 233 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 1: would a Congress approve of this? And if not, why 234 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 1: would they let the president do it? And so I 235 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 1: think you're going to see a lot of cases where 236 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 1: this underlying theme tends to exert itself, and I would 237 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 1: think this court is looking to roll back some of 238 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:22,720 Speaker 1: the powers of the presidency. Well, there's an important point 239 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 1: there about the powers of the presidency, specifically using emergency powers. 240 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:31,679 Speaker 1: That was something that the justices got into and spoke 241 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:35,680 Speaker 1: very skeptically of. I'm wondering if it's something that the 242 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 1: American public thinks very directly about. I mean, Genie, if 243 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:46,720 Speaker 1: if conservatives go saying, look, we don't want to mess 244 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:49,560 Speaker 1: up your finances necessarily, but we had to reign in 245 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:53,439 Speaker 1: the emergency powers of the presidency, is that something that 246 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 1: resonates with the broader public? You know, I think it 247 00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 1: resonates with a swath of the public. I don't think 248 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:01,839 Speaker 1: the broad public is going to be thinking about the 249 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:05,840 Speaker 1: Heroes Act under which they maneuvered to reinterpret that and 250 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:08,240 Speaker 1: give the president this power. But I think it is 251 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 1: an argument to say the presidency, as you know, Rick 252 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:14,079 Speaker 1: just had gotten too powerful. We have to rein this 253 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:17,280 Speaker 1: in so that may work. I think the more sort 254 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:20,520 Speaker 1: of impactful argument is going to be the one Gorstch made, 255 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 1: which is about fairness and equity. The idea that some 256 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 1: people took loans, but some people didn't, some people weren't eligible, 257 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 1: some people paid back their loans. How is that fair? 258 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 1: And that's one that seems to resonate, resonate, and it 259 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 1: even resonated, you know, ironically with Joe Biden, he was 260 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 1: the one slow to this and sort of maneuvered his 261 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 1: way there. With Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders and others pushing 262 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 1: for this. He didn't find his way to it very quickly, 263 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 1: and it wasn't only until right late last summer, before 264 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:50,760 Speaker 1: the midterm that he did this, So you know, he 265 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 1: was sensitive to that argument. And so I think the 266 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 1: fairness argument is the one that politically will resonate. But 267 00:14:57,120 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 1: I'm not sure that's how the Supreme Court is going 268 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 1: to decide this. I think they may disguide it on 269 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 1: the separation or the standing grounds. Right. One other thing 270 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 1: I'm curious about it. I was looking at the Supreme 271 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 1: Court approval rating, not that that's necessarily as relevant as 272 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:13,400 Speaker 1: the presidents they're not running for office, but that got 273 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: down to forty percent last year, pretty low after the 274 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 1: news of the Daubs ruling. Rick, do you think that 275 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:23,320 Speaker 1: if this is such a motivating issue for some people, 276 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 1: does this if they strike this down, does it have 277 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 1: much of an effect on any sense of legitimacy or 278 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 1: public views on the Supreme Court itself? You know, that's 279 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:34,920 Speaker 1: a that's a great question. I think that in the 280 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 1: backs of the Supreme Court justice's minds, they will contemplate 281 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 1: how they build back the integrity of their institution because 282 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 1: I agree they were at the lowest ebb of their 283 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 1: historical favorabilities with the American public at the time of 284 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:52,280 Speaker 1: the DABS decision. Rarely do we see chain link fences 285 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 1: surrounding the Supreme Court. This is not the look that 286 00:15:55,600 --> 00:16:00,200 Speaker 1: the justices want, and so my senses they are int 287 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 1: on building back that credibility. Whether this case is going 288 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 1: to resonate to that degree, I would be surprised. There's 289 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 1: a large degree of This is the PhD Debt Retirement Act. Right, 290 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:18,040 Speaker 1: as Sandy Bomb pointed out, this is going disproportionately people 291 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 1: who stayed in school the longest, and so it's not 292 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 1: a slam dunk for the court to say, you know 293 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 1: that by releasing the case on this and allowing the 294 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 1: debt forgiveness to go forward, somehow there's some kind of 295 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 1: popular revolution that will take place that will be good. 296 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:38,760 Speaker 1: Coming up, we're going to talk about the courage to 297 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 1: be Free. Ronda Stanton's book is selling. He's not on 298 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 1: a book tour. He's traveling and talking and he has 299 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 1: a book that some people are buying, but it's not 300 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:49,440 Speaker 1: a book tour. We'll keep it going with the panel 301 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 1: to discuss the courage to be free and what that means, 302 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 1: of course. For twenty twenty four, I'm Jack Fitzpatrick. This 303 00:16:55,960 --> 00:17:06,200 Speaker 1: is Bloomberg Isberg soned on with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. Today, 304 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 1: the corporate kingdom finally comes to an end. There's a 305 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 1: new sheriff in town, and accountability will be the order 306 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:24,560 Speaker 1: of the day. That was Florida Governor Ron De Santis. 307 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:28,480 Speaker 1: Yesterday he signed a bill granting a new state appointed 308 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:33,320 Speaker 1: board the responsibilities of Disney's Reedy Creek Improvement District and 309 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 1: named a slate of conservative leaders. I'm Jack Fitzpatrick here 310 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:40,119 Speaker 1: with our panel on sound on, Rick Davis and Jeannie 311 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:44,919 Speaker 1: she and Zano Bloomberg Politics contributors. Here's what's up with 312 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:48,080 Speaker 1: Ron De Santis. He has had his back and forth 313 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:51,359 Speaker 1: with Disney. He's got a book out, The Courage to 314 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 1: Be Free, which actually happens to be the number one 315 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 1: seller on Amazon. That apparently does not mean it as 316 00:17:57,240 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 1: well written, according to a review in The New York Times, 317 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 1: which called it courageously free of anything that resembles charisma 318 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:08,240 Speaker 1: or a discernible sense of humor. So I guess mixed 319 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 1: reviews but somewhat popular. He's also visiting Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire, 320 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 1: and possibly South Carolina in the first half of March. 321 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:22,760 Speaker 1: According to Maggie Haberman at The Times, I think we 322 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 1: know the significance of those states. So I my first question, 323 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:30,960 Speaker 1: Jeanie Sheenzano, is if we effectively are already in the 324 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:35,680 Speaker 1: midst of a Republican presidential primary battle. Yeah, don't tell 325 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 1: anyone though, Jack, it's a secret. We're in the invisible stage. 326 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:42,199 Speaker 1: We absolutely are. And you know the book, and I 327 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:45,479 Speaker 1: think you know, mixed is probably a generous description. That 328 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:48,359 Speaker 1: was a pretty scathing New York Times review of the book. 329 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:50,919 Speaker 1: But you could see in the book the outlines of 330 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 1: his campaign, and you can see in his you know, 331 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:57,680 Speaker 1: his appearances like the one on Mark Levine on Fox, 332 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 1: what he's trying to do. Somebody said his motto is 333 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:04,439 Speaker 1: make America Florida, and that really does seem to be 334 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 1: what he is after. He wants to use the legislation 335 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 1: and the work he's done as governor to push thord 336 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:13,879 Speaker 1: and make those cases to the American public that we 337 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 1: can do this in the United States writ large. And 338 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 1: I think you know you talking about the Disney Bill 339 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 1: that he just signed. Yesterday as a perfect example of 340 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:25,639 Speaker 1: what he'd like to do visavi corporate America, which is 341 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 1: a you know, a real change from where Republicans used 342 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:30,199 Speaker 1: to be. An even DeSantis was at the beginning of 343 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:33,200 Speaker 1: his career, he no longer wants to talk about small government, 344 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:37,200 Speaker 1: but taking on corporations and using the state to do that. 345 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:39,680 Speaker 1: So the book, it may not be the most well 346 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:42,119 Speaker 1: written book in the world, but it does, you know, 347 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:45,359 Speaker 1: really represent where he stands at this point in his 348 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:49,000 Speaker 1: career and what he hopes to do in his presidential run. Well, Jinie, 349 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:52,880 Speaker 1: that's an important point. And the phrase that Governor DeSantis used, 350 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 1: the corporate kingdom has come down really struck me. Rick. 351 00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:02,399 Speaker 1: What does ron DeSantis say a about the Republicans Republican 352 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:07,359 Speaker 1: Party's stance toward corporate America. Yeah, he really flips the 353 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 1: script on it. Um. You know, he talks about how 354 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:13,119 Speaker 1: important executive powers are in his book and and and 355 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 1: obviously you know, being the chief executive of Florida, it 356 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:19,480 Speaker 1: sort of brings you right into his thinking about how 357 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:23,280 Speaker 1: he is going to be president and he views his 358 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:27,480 Speaker 1: role to actually police private businesses in America. I mean 359 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 1: it it is it explains why he's taken the approach 360 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:34,359 Speaker 1: he's taken on companies like Disney, and it really does 361 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:38,120 Speaker 1: kind of, you know, make the point that him, as 362 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:41,680 Speaker 1: chief executive of government, whether it's Florida or the country, 363 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 1: knows better what the business community should be doing than 364 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 1: the business community does. It is a real change in 365 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:53,679 Speaker 1: Republican orthodoxy as it relates to free markets and the 366 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:57,280 Speaker 1: independence of corporate America. Well, and I you know, I 367 00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:01,240 Speaker 1: think deciantis is a very interesting case study. Not only 368 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:05,720 Speaker 1: to pin this on this back and forth between him 369 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:08,399 Speaker 1: and Disney, but you know, you see a House vote 370 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 1: on this EESG bill limiting the move by the Biden 371 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:19,720 Speaker 1: administration to allow retirement fund managers to take environmental factors 372 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:24,160 Speaker 1: and so on into account in their investment. Simpler question, though, 373 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,920 Speaker 1: than the identity of the Republican Party. Rick, I'm curious. 374 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 1: I saw an Emerson pull out today on a theoretical 375 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:36,160 Speaker 1: Republican presidential primary. It had Trump at fifty five percent 376 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:39,919 Speaker 1: de Santis at twenty five percent. There is a clear 377 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:43,920 Speaker 1: gap there. I mean, is does Santis a strong candidate 378 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:46,680 Speaker 1: if and when he actually becomes a candidate. Yeah, I 379 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:49,760 Speaker 1: think you gotta keep from falling in love with polls 380 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:53,239 Speaker 1: this early. Donald Trump, obviously having served as president for 381 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:56,480 Speaker 1: four years, has one hundred percent name I d arguably 382 00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 1: anybody outside of Florida, if you really know anything about 383 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 1: Ron de Santis, it would be a stretch, right. Uh. 384 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 1: And so the only polling that would probably be worth 385 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 1: worth it is, you know, how would the Florida primary 386 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:11,040 Speaker 1: work if everybody was running against Ron de Santis for 387 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:14,120 Speaker 1: the nomination? Um. The reality is we're a long way 388 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:17,600 Speaker 1: from knowing. One, what is Trump's vulnerability to the field, 389 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:21,240 Speaker 1: and how does Ron desantist rack up to that field, 390 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 1: including against Donald Trump? And and and and this hasn't 391 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:27,200 Speaker 1: even started, right, I mean, Ron de Santis is going 392 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:29,320 Speaker 1: to use the new book, you know, to get around 393 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 1: to these new states, you know, as you described earlier, Iowa, 394 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:36,920 Speaker 1: New Hampshire, places like that, and and and he's going 395 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 1: to get a taste for what life is like outside 396 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:43,600 Speaker 1: of Florida, where he's been quite successful. So can he 397 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 1: replicate that success in these other states? We'll see. But Uh, 398 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 1: to look at a horse race poll right now is 399 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 1: is pretty deceiving. Um. And and even at a state 400 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 1: like Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina, where there will be 401 00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 1: early primaries in February of twenty twenty four. There's not 402 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:04,000 Speaker 1: enough name idea to really give it a fair shot, 403 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:06,400 Speaker 1: So we'll get down to the horse race, pauls. I'm 404 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:08,959 Speaker 1: sure at some point in time, but it's probably not 405 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:10,720 Speaker 1: really a good way to look at it from this point. 406 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:13,359 Speaker 1: That's a good point to keep in mind as we 407 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:17,159 Speaker 1: look at this descantist travel through the early States. But 408 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:21,640 Speaker 1: let's take it from Iowa slash Nevada slash Tallahassee back 409 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:24,800 Speaker 1: to DC's there's one thing I wanted to flag for 410 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:28,880 Speaker 1: you guys. House Majority Leader Steve Scalise was asked today 411 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:33,320 Speaker 1: about Speaker Kevin McCarthy's decision to give hundreds of hours 412 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 1: of security footage from the January sixth, twenty twenty one 413 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:41,120 Speaker 1: insurrection at the Capitol to Tucker Carlson of Fox News. Specifically, 414 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 1: here's that exchange between Scalise and a reporter. I guess, 415 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 1: more broadly, if I were thinking and releasing the case, 416 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:50,439 Speaker 1: and then if you would consider releasing them broadly to 417 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,720 Speaker 1: all media. Yeah, Speaker McCarthy has talked about that is 418 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:57,120 Speaker 1: that it will be ultimately released to all media, and 419 00:23:57,600 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 1: you know that's a process that's on going right now 420 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:06,720 Speaker 1: all media. I'm curious if that is damage control after 421 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:10,399 Speaker 1: questions about why this specifically went to Tucker Carlson, questions 422 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:14,280 Speaker 1: about releasing it at all, some vague answers on whether 423 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 1: they ran this past or coordinated with the Capitol Police. Jeanie, 424 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:21,399 Speaker 1: what do you make of the significance of going to 425 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:25,359 Speaker 1: Tucker Carlson first and now something else is in the works. Yeah, 426 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,199 Speaker 1: you know, I think it's very difficult because it seems 427 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 1: to have been and this is what we're hearing speculatively, 428 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:35,240 Speaker 1: is that this was payback for the speakers vote. And 429 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:37,920 Speaker 1: we've heard people like Marjorie Taylor Green and others applaud 430 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,920 Speaker 1: Kevin McCarty for giving this to Tucker Carlson. But their 431 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 1: argument for releasing the tape was transparency. And if that's 432 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:48,119 Speaker 1: your argument, you don't release it to one individual or 433 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 1: one media outlet. And let's not forget this wasn't even 434 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:53,679 Speaker 1: released to all of Fox. It was released just to 435 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:57,159 Speaker 1: the you know, just to Tucker Carlson. So they have 436 00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:59,439 Speaker 1: to know if they're going to make a transparency argument, 437 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,360 Speaker 1: really sit to the rest of the media, and they 438 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,159 Speaker 1: should do that. But of course they really need to 439 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:09,240 Speaker 1: keep security top of mind, because the reality is the 440 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 1: January sixth Committee had this and they were very careful 441 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 1: not to release anything that could make the you know, 442 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:20,440 Speaker 1: the complex and anybody in Congress, including reporters like yourself, 443 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 1: less secure, and that's critically important well transparency security. There's 444 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:28,080 Speaker 1: a whole conversation to be had there. There's one other 445 00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 1: point though, all media aside, this whole exchange does seem 446 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:37,640 Speaker 1: to be about McCarthy and Tucker Carlson. I mean, Rick, 447 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,440 Speaker 1: do we know much about There's a back and forth there. 448 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:44,200 Speaker 1: Carlson's hit McCarthy on the airwaves at times. What is 449 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:46,919 Speaker 1: their relationship? You know, look, they've known each other for 450 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:51,399 Speaker 1: virtually their entire career, and so there's there's plenty of 451 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,639 Speaker 1: relationship there to back on bank on. I must admit 452 00:25:54,720 --> 00:26:00,119 Speaker 1: I'm somewhat confused as to what Tucker Carlson's motivations are 453 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,640 Speaker 1: to want to see all the tape. We know from 454 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:06,080 Speaker 1: the dominion lawsuit against Fox News that there's been a 455 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:09,640 Speaker 1: lot of skepticism by people like Tucker Carlson around all 456 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:13,000 Speaker 1: the events that led up to January sixth, and so 457 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:18,480 Speaker 1: is this an attempt to embarrassed Donald Trump by just 458 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 1: playing displaying unseen footage that makes it worse than it 459 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 1: was it is. Is it an attempt to try and 460 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:28,879 Speaker 1: manipulate history and tell a different story than what the 461 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:31,520 Speaker 1: January sixth committee. I mean, honestly, it makes no sense 462 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,879 Speaker 1: to me. Is to why this whole conversation between Tucker 463 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 1: Carlson and Speaker McCarthy has occurred. And of course if 464 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:41,199 Speaker 1: you give it to one, you have to give it 465 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:45,200 Speaker 1: to all its public ownership of the of the tape. 466 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,639 Speaker 1: This is not owned by Kevin McCarthy. It's owned by 467 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:52,399 Speaker 1: the American public. And anybody who asked for a Foyer 468 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,720 Speaker 1: request is going to probably get it, regardless of what 469 00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:58,320 Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy thinks is the right thing to do. Funny enough, 470 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,600 Speaker 1: a Foyer request to Congress or to the Capitol Police 471 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,840 Speaker 1: might not be quite as successful as other places. But 472 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:08,120 Speaker 1: coming up, we will speak to Jody Arrington, the new 473 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:12,200 Speaker 1: Budget Committee Chair, Republican from Texas, on the latest on 474 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:17,119 Speaker 1: the debt limit, the budget he's crafting, and those negotiations. 475 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:21,480 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg sound on podcast. Catch us 476 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,560 Speaker 1: live weekdays at five Eastern on Bloomberg Dot com the 477 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,360 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, and the Bloomberg Business app. We're 478 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:32,760 Speaker 1: listening on demand wherever you get your podcast. Headline on 479 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:37,719 Speaker 1: the Bloomberg terminal earlier today, McCarthy still waiting for Biden 480 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 1: to resume debt ceiling talks. I'm curious if anything is 481 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,879 Speaker 1: actually happening. It's been about a month since we heard 482 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,560 Speaker 1: of a meeting or a phone call between those two. 483 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:51,600 Speaker 1: Maybe it's not publicly facing. I'm Jack Fitzpatrick from Bloomberg Government, 484 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,520 Speaker 1: filling in for Joe Matthew, and I'm joined on the 485 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:57,040 Speaker 1: phone by a member of Congress who you know, if 486 00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:00,840 Speaker 1: anybody is really working on this, even if potentially McCarthy 487 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,240 Speaker 1: and Biden aren't talking right now, it would probably be 488 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:06,560 Speaker 1: this person, Congressman Jody Arrington, the Republican from Texas, who 489 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,680 Speaker 1: is the new chair of the House Budget Committee, an 490 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:13,720 Speaker 1: enthusiast on budget issues in Congress. Congressman, very glad to 491 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,239 Speaker 1: have you with us today. The simplest question I can 492 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:21,600 Speaker 1: ask you on the debt limit is anything happening? A 493 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:25,360 Speaker 1: lot more is happening than meets the public eye. We're 494 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:31,159 Speaker 1: having conversations with Democratic colleagues, and I'm sure that Speaker 495 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:37,560 Speaker 1: McCarthy's having even his own separate conversation. Look, we have 496 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:42,160 Speaker 1: been very clear we have to have fiscal reforms and 497 00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:47,080 Speaker 1: some common sense spinning controls if we're going to expand 498 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 1: the line of credit to any Washington politician, whether it's 499 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:56,640 Speaker 1: this president or whatever the party. We're thirty one trillion 500 00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 1: in debt, debt ceilings, a check on the debt and 501 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 1: it's impact on the financial health of our country, and 502 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 1: that health is in decline and our path, fiscal path 503 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:12,400 Speaker 1: is unsustainable. And I find that many of my colleagues 504 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 1: on the Democrat side of the out rank and file colleagues, 505 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:19,760 Speaker 1: they get that. So we just have to get to 506 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:23,600 Speaker 1: something in writing and something that we can agree on 507 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:26,520 Speaker 1: and show the American people we can do what they 508 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:32,240 Speaker 1: have to do when they're experiencing financial challenges, which is 509 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 1: tighten our belt and reevaluate our spending habits. I know 510 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 1: you had a bill later last year on discretionary spending caps. 511 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:47,200 Speaker 1: Given that something big on entitlement solvency is off the 512 00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:50,600 Speaker 1: table with regard to the debt limit, does this do 513 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 1: these conversations basically center on a discretionary spending cap regime 514 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:04,880 Speaker 1: that's a great question. Well, the spending cap proposals, and 515 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:07,959 Speaker 1: there are I have one, but I'm sure there are 516 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:13,040 Speaker 1: a number of proposals to basically extend the caps that 517 00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:16,600 Speaker 1: we had in place for the previous ten years. This 518 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:20,640 Speaker 1: was also negotiated, by the way, by then Vice President 519 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:25,760 Speaker 1: Joe Biden as a part of a debt sealing negotiation deal, 520 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 1: so that we there is precedence for fiscal reforms coming 521 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:33,880 Speaker 1: out of these negotiations. So spending caps is one of them. 522 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:36,800 Speaker 1: I think we need to right size and reset our 523 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:40,920 Speaker 1: baseline on twenty two spending levels, because we are four 524 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:43,720 Speaker 1: hundred billion dollars over what we were spending on the 525 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:48,320 Speaker 1: discretionary side or what CBO projected we would be spending 526 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:53,760 Speaker 1: in twenty three. So there's excess spending, there's unnecessary spending, 527 00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:58,000 Speaker 1: and we've got to address that. And that's going to 528 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:01,360 Speaker 1: be a sort of the anchor to our ten year 529 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 1: long term budget proposal coming out of the Budget Committee. 530 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:10,560 Speaker 1: So that's one. But there are mandatory reforms, for example, 531 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:16,640 Speaker 1: reinstating Bill Clinton era work requirements to means tests of 532 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:20,160 Speaker 1: welfare programs. If you just did that, for for example, 533 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:24,480 Speaker 1: the supplemental nutrition or food stamp program, which by the way, 534 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 1: is going to be negotiated in the broader context of 535 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:30,320 Speaker 1: a farm bill. If we did that, that's tens of 536 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:33,800 Speaker 1: billions of dollars in savings and fewer people trapped in 537 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:38,360 Speaker 1: dependence and poverty as a result. So those are and 538 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:42,440 Speaker 1: then you've got one time spending jack like resending the 539 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 1: unspent COVID moneies. That's almost one hundred billion dollars. Then 540 00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:50,360 Speaker 1: there's the loan cancelation, which is upwards of four hundred 541 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:55,920 Speaker 1: and fifty billion dollars. There's plenty of opportunities to include 542 00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:00,200 Speaker 1: reducing our spending either one time or over the ten 543 00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:04,360 Speaker 1: year horizon with spending caps. So if you were to 544 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,800 Speaker 1: get that kind of those kinds of concessions from Democrats. 545 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:10,920 Speaker 1: And this is something else I know you've legislated on 546 00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:14,000 Speaker 1: you to bill. I believe with Scott Peters at one point, 547 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:18,600 Speaker 1: but I'm curious if Republicans more broadly are open to 548 00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 1: a deal that would permanently end these standoffs, or at 549 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:25,800 Speaker 1: least reduce them, something that actually changes the legal structure 550 00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:27,440 Speaker 1: of the debt limit. Is that something that's on the 551 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:32,160 Speaker 1: table right now. Well, Look, I think I think other 552 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:35,640 Speaker 1: than Social Security and Medicare which have been taken off 553 00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:41,920 Speaker 1: the table. We're open to discussing any number of reform ideas. 554 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:45,440 Speaker 1: The one that you're referring to that I introduced with 555 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:51,160 Speaker 1: Scott Peters basically says we will we won't permanently remove 556 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,400 Speaker 1: the debt ceiling, but we will waive it if we 557 00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:58,720 Speaker 1: have a debt to GDP targets that reduces debt to 558 00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:03,080 Speaker 1: GDP five percent or more, and then it allows for 559 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:08,160 Speaker 1: real debate and consideration on a number of budget process 560 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:11,920 Speaker 1: reform and spending reform proposals. We don't do enough of that. 561 00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:15,280 Speaker 1: We don't we don't spend the time or the focus 562 00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:18,600 Speaker 1: of this body on either side on these issues. So 563 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 1: Scott Peters and I have more of a process oriented reform, 564 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:26,280 Speaker 1: but yes, we would consider things like that. But at 565 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:30,040 Speaker 1: the end of the day, process reform is good. We 566 00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:33,680 Speaker 1: need it. The current process it's broken and functional and 567 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:38,080 Speaker 1: the outcomes prove that. But we need to start bending 568 00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:41,760 Speaker 1: the curve on spending and that has to be an 569 00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:44,920 Speaker 1: element of this debt ceiling deal. If we're going to, 570 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:47,080 Speaker 1: like I said, if we're going to raise the debt 571 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:51,280 Speaker 1: ceiling and give this president and the folks here in Washington, 572 00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:58,800 Speaker 1: a new lineup, well even before we see a debt 573 00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:02,400 Speaker 1: limit deal, unless it comes very surprisingly quickly. Uh, it 574 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:06,040 Speaker 1: sounds like you're working on a House Republican budget resolution. 575 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:08,080 Speaker 1: When are when are we going to see that budget? 576 00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:12,880 Speaker 1: You know, you need to quit asking these tough questions. 577 00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:16,239 Speaker 1: You don't think it's tough. It is tough. Look, the 578 00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:21,040 Speaker 1: President submitted his proposal or will next week. It's it's 579 00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:25,160 Speaker 1: thirty days lay, which is putting a little bit of 580 00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:27,000 Speaker 1: a drag on our process. That could we get to 581 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:30,000 Speaker 1: assas and analyze his and will probably have a hearing 582 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:33,200 Speaker 1: on it um, but we'll we'll have it in the 583 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:38,960 Speaker 1: next thirty days. I presume we've got um the framework 584 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:42,080 Speaker 1: for that budget already put together. We have we have 585 00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:45,040 Speaker 1: to get the two hundred and eighteen ultimately. So there's 586 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:48,359 Speaker 1: a difference in getting a budget proposal, a long term 587 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,759 Speaker 1: ten year budget proposal, out of committee and getting it 588 00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:55,800 Speaker 1: out of the chambers. So we're trying to engage members 589 00:34:55,920 --> 00:35:01,240 Speaker 1: to do it right in a very truicated period of time. 590 00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:05,239 Speaker 1: But I feel good about where we are and and 591 00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:09,080 Speaker 1: I think we've got a great committee represents the perspectives 592 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:13,320 Speaker 1: across the spectrum and in different caucuses. And that's important 593 00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:18,560 Speaker 1: because they're very representative of our very diverse group of 594 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:21,960 Speaker 1: members in our Republican conference. Right. Well, I don't ask 595 00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:24,120 Speaker 1: you about the timing of your budget to you know, 596 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:27,520 Speaker 1: complain and look at my watch. But I'm curious as 597 00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:31,440 Speaker 1: the because, as you mentioned, the president's budget proposal supposed 598 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:34,920 Speaker 1: to come next Thursday, it is late. That kind of 599 00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:39,360 Speaker 1: sets things back, assuming you care about the president's budget proposal. 600 00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:42,359 Speaker 1: I mean, when the president sends that to the hill 601 00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:45,799 Speaker 1: in a House controlled by Republicans, does that just go 602 00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:49,000 Speaker 1: to the trash or to what extent? Do you really 603 00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:52,439 Speaker 1: look at that and find value in what you think 604 00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:55,760 Speaker 1: is coming from the president in his budget proposal? Well, well, 605 00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:59,880 Speaker 1: I think the value is what the President has stayed 606 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:04,879 Speaker 1: about budgets, which he has said, I think repeatedly that 607 00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:11,600 Speaker 1: budgets are really an expression of one's priorities and one's values, 608 00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:14,680 Speaker 1: and so I think it's important for us to spend 609 00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:20,160 Speaker 1: time looking through his budget and evaluating priorities and values 610 00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:25,040 Speaker 1: reflected in how he would resource the federal government, and 611 00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:31,360 Speaker 1: then contrast that with our Republican vision and framework for 612 00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:36,600 Speaker 1: long term budgets and even the new anchor of fiscal 613 00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:39,520 Speaker 1: year twenty four at twenty two spending levels. I think 614 00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:42,560 Speaker 1: that's the value and is to let the American people 615 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:47,480 Speaker 1: know there's a difference in principle, there's a difference in 616 00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:52,319 Speaker 1: values and priorities, and those are sometimes best expressed in 617 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:55,719 Speaker 1: budget proposals. So it does take time to go through 618 00:36:55,760 --> 00:37:04,319 Speaker 1: that so that we can accurately represent what we're proposing. Well, 619 00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,920 Speaker 1: and as I bring up the President, he said in 620 00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:11,880 Speaker 1: Virginia Beach today that House Republicans and his words are 621 00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:15,560 Speaker 1: aiming to cut medicaid. One. I want to see if 622 00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:18,480 Speaker 1: you have a response to that, but specifically, what kind 623 00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:21,640 Speaker 1: of assumptions are you going to policy assumptions are you 624 00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:24,799 Speaker 1: going to put into your budget resolution about medicaid when 625 00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:28,520 Speaker 1: you have that out, Well, we haven't voted on it, 626 00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:31,160 Speaker 1: and I'm not going to presume on my committee members 627 00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:33,799 Speaker 1: or my conference. I'll just tell you we have a 628 00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:39,359 Speaker 1: very different view of what works in healthcare to give 629 00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:43,920 Speaker 1: access to bend the spending curve, to reduce spending in 630 00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:46,960 Speaker 1: healthcare in general, which is a huge driver of our 631 00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:51,520 Speaker 1: spending in our national debt, not just in ten years, 632 00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,520 Speaker 1: but in thirty years. It's a it's a significant portion 633 00:37:54,560 --> 00:38:00,440 Speaker 1: of it. So we want less government control, government planning, 634 00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:04,439 Speaker 1: government run healthcare. We think that's inefficient, we think it's 635 00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:08,240 Speaker 1: less access, it's more expensive. We saw it with Obamacare. 636 00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:13,839 Speaker 1: Deductibles went up, the copas went up. And we want 637 00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:18,360 Speaker 1: more competition, more choice from patients. We want more innovation 638 00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:20,879 Speaker 1: and freedom to the states. And I think all that's 639 00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:24,400 Speaker 1: gonna You know, this isn't new. It's a philosophical difference 640 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:30,240 Speaker 1: between Democrats view of healthcare and markets and what patients 641 00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:34,239 Speaker 1: get to choose for their families. And that'll be reflected 642 00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:37,839 Speaker 1: in our budget. And there are certainly savings in healthcare 643 00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:43,680 Speaker 1: reforms that make not only the process here in Washington 644 00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:47,560 Speaker 1: more effective and efficient, but just reduce spending because you 645 00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:54,360 Speaker 1: have a healthier, more competitive healthcare market competing for families 646 00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:58,640 Speaker 1: and patients across the country. That's the Well. One other 647 00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:00,759 Speaker 1: question on some of the big pick sure stuff. I 648 00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:04,479 Speaker 1: understand and it's been made very clear that the big 649 00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:09,040 Speaker 1: picture talks on entitlement solvency are not happening as part 650 00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:11,680 Speaker 1: of the debt limit negotiations, But do you see an 651 00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:15,520 Speaker 1: opportunity to have that conversation on social security and medicare 652 00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:19,640 Speaker 1: solvency in any way or has everybody kind of gotten 653 00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:25,080 Speaker 1: burned by touching the third rail and that's going silent now. Well, 654 00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:28,600 Speaker 1: I do think that the political reality of being burned 655 00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:33,000 Speaker 1: touching the third rail has put us all lawmakers and 656 00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:37,760 Speaker 1: leaders of our great country in a precarious situation. And 657 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,480 Speaker 1: I think the way it's been dealt with in the 658 00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:47,840 Speaker 1: past is we have a we get Republicans, earnest, sincere, 659 00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:53,080 Speaker 1: thoughtful Republicans and Democrats who want to address the insolvency 660 00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:57,560 Speaker 1: issue which faces both Social security and medicare in this 661 00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:00,920 Speaker 1: tenure window. And as your list know and you know 662 00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:04,120 Speaker 1: on the so Security side, if if we don't do 663 00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:07,120 Speaker 1: anything and it's and if we get to the ten 664 00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:12,640 Speaker 1: your insolvency it beneficial, will take to twenty immediately. So 665 00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,480 Speaker 1: we've got to do it Ronald Reagan and Tip O'Neill did, 666 00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:20,240 Speaker 1: and get Republicans and Democrats together, find the common ground. 667 00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:28,160 Speaker 1: Nobody will be the way to strengthen the programs, say 668 00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:31,640 Speaker 1: that for future seniors, not just the seniors of today. 669 00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:35,879 Speaker 1: That how it's worked in the past, that's been the 670 00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:42,280 Speaker 1: mechanism strategy, and I believe that's the strategy that applies 671 00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:47,120 Speaker 1: to Okay, Congressman, thank you so much for joining us. 672 00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:51,320 Speaker 1: That was Congressman Jody Arrington, the new House Budget Committee chairman, 673 00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:55,800 Speaker 1: finding himself at the center of a series of important issues. 674 00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:59,680 Speaker 1: Um a lot to get into there with our panel. 675 00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:04,279 Speaker 1: Rick Davis and Jeannie she and Zano are Bloomberg Politics contributors, 676 00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:06,240 Speaker 1: and I'm trying to think of even where to start. 677 00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:10,680 Speaker 1: I think one major takeaway not to beat the dead horse, 678 00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:14,920 Speaker 1: is on what he described as the political reality of 679 00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:18,120 Speaker 1: being burned by touching the third rail. There was the 680 00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:23,719 Speaker 1: conversation about maybe getting into a social Security, Medicare solvency, 681 00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:26,879 Speaker 1: conversation with the debt limit. Anyone who watched the State 682 00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:30,759 Speaker 1: of the Union knows that is absolutely not happening. In fact, 683 00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:36,080 Speaker 1: earlier today, the President spoke in Virginia Beach and referenced 684 00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:41,600 Speaker 1: everything that happened between him and House Republicans on entitlement solvency. 685 00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:44,839 Speaker 1: Everybody says we're not going to come Medicare social Security. 686 00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:47,080 Speaker 1: When I asked them to join us and reject the 687 00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:51,719 Speaker 1: cuts Medicare, wasn't it something? They all stood up. They 688 00:41:51,719 --> 00:42:00,520 Speaker 1: all stood up. They're all on camera, all their pictures 689 00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:07,800 Speaker 1: Like I said, I believe in conversion. So clearly President 690 00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:13,439 Speaker 1: Biden got what he wanted in ruling out ruling out 691 00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:19,120 Speaker 1: an entitlement solvency conversation in the debt limit. I'm curious 692 00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:23,120 Speaker 1: what our takeaways are on where that leaves us going forward, 693 00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:26,920 Speaker 1: whether they can someday set up a committee. There are 694 00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:30,120 Speaker 1: deadlines about five to twelve years from now on Social 695 00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:34,280 Speaker 1: Security and Medicare. Rick, what do you think the outcome 696 00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:37,120 Speaker 1: is from this exchange that has gone back and forth 697 00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:40,000 Speaker 1: between Biden and the House Republicans on ruling out anything 698 00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:42,560 Speaker 1: in the near term on entitlements. Yeah, other than a 699 00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:45,799 Speaker 1: few renegades, there hasn't really been a real discussion in 700 00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:48,200 Speaker 1: the House, either in the House at uope or the 701 00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:50,880 Speaker 1: Senate touopee about touching the third rail, as you like 702 00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:53,200 Speaker 1: to put it. But that being said, I thought that 703 00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:56,640 Speaker 1: Congressman Arrington had a very constructive point of view that 704 00:42:56,760 --> 00:42:59,800 Speaker 1: at some point, and probably after the debt limit conversation 705 00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:03,320 Speaker 1: curs because cuts in the federal budget right now shouldn't 706 00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:06,200 Speaker 1: include those items because you don't really have the time 707 00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:09,960 Speaker 1: to do them in a way that minimizes any negative impact. 708 00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:13,920 Speaker 1: But to get together with leadership of both the Republican 709 00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:16,439 Speaker 1: and Democratic Party and the president and start talking about 710 00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:19,480 Speaker 1: how to shore up these important entitlement programs and not 711 00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:22,080 Speaker 1: put so much pressure on the federal budget by letting 712 00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:26,120 Speaker 1: them just run them up and using the Ronald Reagan 713 00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:29,640 Speaker 1: and Tip O'Neil example of two powerful figures, you know, 714 00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:33,480 Speaker 1: setting aside the political dimension, meaning that the president shouldn't 715 00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:38,200 Speaker 1: go out and ridicule Republicans for thinking about reforming these institutions, 716 00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:40,680 Speaker 1: then I think you probably could get something done, because 717 00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:43,560 Speaker 1: I think there is enough political good will out there 718 00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:46,359 Speaker 1: to try and fix this on somebody's watch, and if 719 00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:48,600 Speaker 1: it doesn't happen on this president's it will have to 720 00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:52,520 Speaker 1: happen in the next ones. Well. With that being set aside, 721 00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:56,279 Speaker 1: there is now a lot of focus on the discretionary side, 722 00:43:56,280 --> 00:44:00,680 Speaker 1: the agency budgets, not the entitlements, but not fence, and 723 00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:05,880 Speaker 1: as I've talked to conservatives also not veterans issues. So, Genie, 724 00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:08,520 Speaker 1: I mean it sounds to me like they're narrowing this 725 00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:11,840 Speaker 1: down to a smaller and smaller pool of areas where 726 00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:15,120 Speaker 1: Congressman Arrington needs to find cuts. I mean, do you 727 00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:19,560 Speaker 1: see it as realistic to balance the budget or accomplish 728 00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:21,799 Speaker 1: any of these fiscally conservative things they want to do 729 00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:25,480 Speaker 1: if they're not touching entitlements, not touching defense, not touching veterans, 730 00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:29,279 Speaker 1: and presumably all sorts of other local things that they like. Yeah, 731 00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:32,239 Speaker 1: I mean, it's just head scratching to imagine how they 732 00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:35,400 Speaker 1: get there when they've already taken so much off the table. 733 00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:38,240 Speaker 1: I mean, we heard from Mitch McConnell, you know, defense 734 00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:40,880 Speaker 1: bending off the table. You just mentioned veterans. I mean, 735 00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:43,960 Speaker 1: you go down the list and it gets narrower narrower, 736 00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:46,840 Speaker 1: and that, I think, politically is what the President is 737 00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:50,920 Speaker 1: trying to hammer home. He's trying to force Republicans to say, Okay, 738 00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:53,320 Speaker 1: you want to do this, you need to put forward 739 00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:56,080 Speaker 1: what you're going to cut. And of course the first 740 00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:58,640 Speaker 1: person to put that forward is usually the one on 741 00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:01,280 Speaker 1: the chopping block. And so we will see the President's 742 00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:05,279 Speaker 1: budget next week, but he was hammering them today, expanding 743 00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:08,920 Speaker 1: from his Social Security Medicare and now it's Obamacare and Medicaid, 744 00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:11,440 Speaker 1: and of course doing it in the district of a 745 00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:15,879 Speaker 1: Republican where he won the district, and you know, he 746 00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:18,600 Speaker 1: really feels that he is going to be targeting these 747 00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:23,560 Speaker 1: more persuadable Republicans like Jen Kiggins in this Virginia district. 748 00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:27,120 Speaker 1: So it's going to be a political blood path as 749 00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:29,759 Speaker 1: they go through this process. I think. Thank you again 750 00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:33,680 Speaker 1: to our guests, Rick Davis, Genie Sheenzano, Congressman Arrington, Sandy Baum, 751 00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:37,920 Speaker 1: Greg Store. You're listening to The Bloomberg Sound on podcast. 752 00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:41,520 Speaker 1: Catch the program live weekdays at five pm Easter on 753 00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:44,839 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio, the tuning app, Bloomberg dot Com, and the 754 00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:48,240 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business App. You can also listen live on Amazon 755 00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:51,880 Speaker 1: Alexa from our flagship New York station, Just say Alexa 756 00:45:52,120 --> 00:46:07,000 Speaker 1: play Bloomberg eleven thirty