Speaker 1: Welcome to Movie Crush, a production of I Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: Hey Everybody, and Welcome to Movie Crush. Charles W. Chuck
Speaker 1: Bryant here uh Friday Interview edition. And I just had
Speaker 1: a great conversation with Michael ian Black, one of my
Speaker 1: comedy heroes because he was in a little sketch comedy
Speaker 1: group called The State, a show that really meant a
Speaker 1: lot to me and was very instructive for me when
Speaker 1: I was in college to see people my own age
Speaker 1: um getting the show on what was like the coolest network,
Speaker 1: uh MTV at the time, and it was just so
Speaker 1: goddamn funny and everyone went on to do amazing things.
Speaker 1: You also know Michael from Stella from Michael and Michael
Speaker 1: Have Issues from Viva Variety, from the NBC sitcom ed.
Speaker 1: He's been busy over the year's wet, hot American summer,
Speaker 1: of course, and we talked a little bit too about
Speaker 1: his new book, A Better Man, a mostly serious letter
Speaker 1: to my son that I cannot recommend more, especially if
Speaker 1: you're a parent. It's a really really sweet book. It's
Speaker 1: a quick read and uh, just a wonderful, wonderful You
Speaker 1: see a side of him that I think you don't
Speaker 1: normally see, which is just super sincere and sweet dad.
Speaker 1: Uh giving advice to a son about life. It's really
Speaker 1: really great, so highly recommend a better man. Uh. So
Speaker 1: the conversation went great. We talked about his um second
Speaker 1: to pick. His first pick was Milish Crossing, but we've
Speaker 1: done that, so he went with Flirting with Disaster, the
Speaker 1: great great um kind of bonkers comedy from David o'
Speaker 1: russell second film, one of my favorite movies as well,
Speaker 1: and we had a great conversation about it. So here
Speaker 1: we go with Mr Michael ian Black on Flirting with Disaster?
Speaker 1: How is it up there in Connecticut? Good? You know? Yeah,
Speaker 1: so it's a little snowy. Oh yeah, it's a dusting
Speaker 1: of snow. Do you like that? Sure? I like. I
Speaker 1: like snow up until the point where I have to
Speaker 1: do any shoveling, and then I don't like it at all.
Speaker 1: But once the shoveling is accomplished that I like it again.
Speaker 1: I got you. I was kind of and probably shouldn't
Speaker 1: have been surprised to learn that you went camping by
Speaker 1: yourself not too long ago, and I grew up camping,
Speaker 1: and I just it didn't seem like a michael Ian
Speaker 1: Black thing to do, which is probably a dumb thing
Speaker 1: for me to think. Wasn't a michael Ian Black thing
Speaker 1: to do in my mind either. Oh, it wasn't okay,
Speaker 1: not at all. I was it. Uh, I liked it
Speaker 1: when I didn't hate it. But I was doing a
Speaker 1: lot of hiking, was more hiking than camping. So it
Speaker 1: was a lot of up and down, a lot of scrambling.
Speaker 1: I shouldn't say scrambling because that implies velocity. There was
Speaker 1: no velocity. But there was a lot of up and
Speaker 1: down in the wilds of Connecticut, a lot of climbing,
Speaker 1: a lot of descending, and um uh it was. It
Speaker 1: was harder than I I thought it was going to be.
Speaker 1: And the and the first time I went out, I
Speaker 1: didn't have the best backpack, are the most appropriate backpack,
Speaker 1: And I didn't like my sleeping pad. There were problems,
Speaker 1: and I addressed some of them the second time I
Speaker 1: went out, so it got a little bit better. And
Speaker 1: but you were spending the night, right, Yeah. I camped
Speaker 1: the first time for three nights and the second time
Speaker 1: for two nights. I was trying to walk the Appalachian
Speaker 1: Trail in Connecticut. That do that whole thing, so I did, yeah,
Speaker 1: and you completed it. He uh yeah. Basically there's a
Speaker 1: tiny bit at the end that I didn't do because
Speaker 1: my wife was taking me up and there was a
Speaker 1: basically a place to exit the trail that was more appropriate,
Speaker 1: so I exited. Are okay for convenience sake? That's okay? Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: It used to be a dream of mine to hike
Speaker 1: the whole thing. I've hiked a lot of parts of
Speaker 1: it in Georgia, but I mean that that ship is
Speaker 1: sailed for me, I think it. That was sort of
Speaker 1: my initial, uh fantasy. I don't know why, because again,
Speaker 1: as you said, it doesn't seem like a thing that
Speaker 1: I would do, and I totally agree with that, but
Speaker 1: I got it into my head years ago that I
Speaker 1: would enjoy it um And so in the back of
Speaker 1: my mind, I was always thinking, someday, I'm going to
Speaker 1: do some hiking and I'm going to hike the Appalachian Trail.
Speaker 1: And then when the pandemic happened and I found myself
Speaker 1: in a house with my family, I decided it was
Speaker 1: time to leave, and so I thought this might be
Speaker 1: a good time to experiment with hiking, and I didn't
Speaker 1: know it was going to be quite as expensive as
Speaker 1: it as it is, just this sort of setting up
Speaker 1: costs just to get gears expensive. Yeah, that stuff isn't cheap,
Speaker 1: and especially if you want to kind of have all
Speaker 1: your bases covered. Uh. They are all sort of sorts
Speaker 1: of fun gadgets and things that you don't necessarily need,
Speaker 1: but those are also kind of fun to get. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I didn't get a lot of gadgets, but I did
Speaker 1: buy a nice tent. I bought a nice sleeping guy.
Speaker 1: Got bought a nice but two nice backpacks and that
Speaker 1: ship ends up adding up, yeah, for sure. And then
Speaker 1: the and the and the food isn't cheap. Those Uh,
Speaker 1: those dehydrated meals are not cheap if you're gonna eat
Speaker 1: a bunch of them. Yeah, those have come a long way, though,
Speaker 1: They're not bad now. It was delicious, I have to
Speaker 1: tell you, the chili beef and mac that I had.
Speaker 1: I still fantasize about it. Delicious stuff. Bliss. When you're
Speaker 1: out there and you've been hiking and it's that's the thing.
Speaker 1: It's so good. It's so much better. You've been hiking
Speaker 1: all day, you're starving and there's nothing else to do
Speaker 1: at night other than eat. Uh. It's the only thing
Speaker 1: you have to look forward to, and then it turns
Speaker 1: out that the food is actually delicious. I loved it.
Speaker 1: Did you pass anyone on the trail that was that
Speaker 1: recognized you? No? Thank god, No, it would be a
Speaker 1: little weird. Huh. Well it would be embarrassing too, because
Speaker 1: I was, you know, the whole time it looked like
Speaker 1: I was probably gonna drop dead from a heart attack.
Speaker 1: I didn't need anybody going, hey, Michael and Black, do
Speaker 1: you need any help? I didn't need that. Um. So
Speaker 1: when I have people on, I like to talk a
Speaker 1: little bit initially about sort of the the movies of
Speaker 1: your youth and what your movie going days were like
Speaker 1: when you were a kid, and how robust and influence
Speaker 1: that was. My movie going experience as a kid was shallow,
Speaker 1: not particularly thoughtful, um, not particularly uh. I didn't feel
Speaker 1: like I was getting a tremendous amount out of it.
Speaker 1: Um when I was probably in my early adolescence when
Speaker 1: we got our first VCR. But and you know, I
Speaker 1: didn't go to and then we didn't go to the
Speaker 1: movie theater very much before that, and then the only
Speaker 1: other option was like to see movies on television, and
Speaker 1: they were always terrible, or at least in my mind,
Speaker 1: they well, they were probably perfectly fine movies, but I didn't.
Speaker 1: You know, to a nine year old, costa blanket does
Speaker 1: doesn't hold a lot of appeal. Um. So when we
Speaker 1: first got the VCR, that was exciting, and we joined
Speaker 1: a movie club, which was exciting. And it's funny to
Speaker 1: remember how like those early video stores were a little
Speaker 1: bit um elitist isn't the right word, but you had
Speaker 1: to pay to joint and then you had to pay
Speaker 1: to rent, and so there was some expense involved in
Speaker 1: renting movies, and then obviously if you were late with them,
Speaker 1: then there was more expense involved. And we didn't have
Speaker 1: very much money at all growing up, so it wasn't
Speaker 1: like we were renting a ton of movies all the time.
Speaker 1: But I feel like what I was watching were primarily
Speaker 1: the big films of the time, So Raiders, the Lost
Speaker 1: arc et um gee, I don't even know. No, I didn't.
Speaker 1: I didn't see Goonies. Um. At friends houses, we might
Speaker 1: see a horror movie or two Friday the Thirteenth or
Speaker 1: Nightmare on Elm Street. Rocky, Um, I saw star wars
Speaker 1: in the theater. Sure, and but like you know, I
Speaker 1: wasn't I wasn't like that into movies. Interesting. Did you
Speaker 1: have designs on show business or acting early on? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I thought from a young age I was going to
Speaker 1: be an actor, but I didn't think it would be
Speaker 1: possible to be a movie actor. Like that thought never
Speaker 1: occurred to me. I thought, I'll just do plays. I'll
Speaker 1: be New York and I'll do crummy play and then
Speaker 1: if I'm lucky, I'll get to travel the country and
Speaker 1: do you know, the classics and regional theaters and be
Speaker 1: poor and um, that's that. That was the extent of
Speaker 1: my imagination. Like, I didn't think it was possible to
Speaker 1: end up in the movies around television that just did
Speaker 1: that seemed like a world well beyond my own. Now,
Speaker 1: did you? Uh? I mean, I know you've done plenty
Speaker 1: of stage work, obviously with comedy and sketch and stuff,
Speaker 1: but have you acted in plays plays as a professional?
Speaker 1: I didn't like twenty five years, I mean the lat
Speaker 1: I mean I feel like I was like eighteen or nineteen,
Speaker 1: so longer than that. Now, maybe twenty the last time
Speaker 1: I did a play. I would like to I'd like
Speaker 1: to go back to the stage and and do something, um,
Speaker 1: but nobody has asked me to, and it doesn't. You know,
Speaker 1: It's well, there's no theater anymore anyway, theaters. Theater has
Speaker 1: stopped existing, at least in this kind right you can
Speaker 1: you can say theater is dead without sounding like a snob,
Speaker 1: because it literally is dead. Theaters are Um. Yeah, there's
Speaker 1: just no theater. It just doesn't exist right now in
Speaker 1: in any recognizable form. So I haven't done it. I
Speaker 1: would like to do it at some point in my
Speaker 1: life again, but that would it will mean rejoining actor's equity,
Speaker 1: which I'm perfectly willing to do, which is the Union
Speaker 1: for Theater Actors. Yeah, for some reason, I could see
Speaker 1: writing a play. Is that? Am I off base? There
Speaker 1: is that something that you that excites you in any way? Um,
Speaker 1: if I had a good idea for a play, yeah,
Speaker 1: it could excite me. But I don't, and so it doesn't. Um.
Speaker 1: So let's kind of skip forward to the n y
Speaker 1: U years and I do want to talk about the
Speaker 1: state or else people will be very mad at me.
Speaker 1: I know you're having a reunion. Is it this Saturday?
Speaker 1: For sketch question? Yes, yes, but I'm not really We've
Speaker 1: already done our work for it. It's a it's a
Speaker 1: thing that we made in a show. So I'm not
Speaker 1: doing any actual reuniting on Saturday. I've already had my reunion.
Speaker 1: Got you. I didn't, I didn't know what form it
Speaker 1: was confessed to all my crushes and it was embarrassing. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean, I think everyone is. It occurred to me
Speaker 1: the other night I was watching that Belushi documentary. Um,
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've seen that, but I've seen
Speaker 1: something that. Yeah, when I was watching some of those
Speaker 1: uh still photos and clips of the Second City group
Speaker 1: in the National Lampoon Radio Hour, and I'm looking at
Speaker 1: those people all kind of gathered together, and I was
Speaker 1: just blown away by the you know, the talent, kind
Speaker 1: of before they were super famous. And then it kind
Speaker 1: of really hit home how much like the state was
Speaker 1: that for our generation? Um, like every single one of
Speaker 1: you and such a big group went on to do
Speaker 1: amazing things and still do amazing things and really really
Speaker 1: something special. I think. So of course, none of us
Speaker 1: have had the success that any of those Second City
Speaker 1: guys had and gals had. Um, you know, there's no
Speaker 1: Bill Murray from our group. There's no John Belushi from
Speaker 1: our group. But we've all had good, solid careers in
Speaker 1: show biz doing things that people appreciate. Um, and we're
Speaker 1: all still alive. So in that respect, we've got one
Speaker 1: up on Belushi. How how old are you guys during
Speaker 1: that first during the MTV season, Uh, the youngest. I
Speaker 1: was the youngest, and I think I was twenty when
Speaker 1: we premiered. I think I might have been twenty two.
Speaker 1: And I think Ken Marino is the oldest and he
Speaker 1: was probably twenty four and a half. Maybe that is crazy, man, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was. It was. Um, it was crazy, especially now
Speaker 1: to be our age, like we're the same age, to
Speaker 1: look back at being twenty two and be handed the keys,
Speaker 1: you know, on a super cool network you know at
Speaker 1: that time and kind of I mean, how how much
Speaker 1: free rain did you guys have? Was that kind of
Speaker 1: go do what you want? No, in the beginning, it was.
Speaker 1: It was very um. Yeah, they really wanted us to
Speaker 1: be something that we weren't. In the beginning. They were
Speaker 1: trying to get us to do um like MTV pop
Speaker 1: culture stuff, you know, and it wasn't a good fit
Speaker 1: in the beginning. I mean, they did give us some
Speaker 1: ly way, absolutely, and eventually what happened is I think
Speaker 1: we kind of earned more when they started to understand
Speaker 1: and we started to understand who we really were, because
Speaker 1: you know, we were trying to make them happy. I
Speaker 1: think they were trying to make us happy to a
Speaker 1: certain extent um, but it took a little while for
Speaker 1: the network and for us to understand ourselves. They were
Speaker 1: just getting into original programming. We've never been on television before. Um,
Speaker 1: so there were some growing pains and um, yeah, we
Speaker 1: we we kind of had to earn their trust. Was
Speaker 1: Bob Pittman around back then? Um? Yes, but but you know,
Speaker 1: there was a whole echelon of MTV people that we
Speaker 1: didn't have anything to do with. Uh, you know, we don't.
Speaker 1: You know, we were a little, a little show. We
Speaker 1: dealt with mid level executives. Um, we didn't deal with
Speaker 1: like huge people until we started to get more popular.
Speaker 1: And then they would show up every now and again, Right, well,
Speaker 1: he runs uh the movie crushing stuff you should know
Speaker 1: on my Heart and he runs I Heart. So I've
Speaker 1: met Bob a few times and I'm always trying to
Speaker 1: bend his ear on on those MTV ears because I
Speaker 1: was a kid who grew up with my face peeled
Speaker 1: to MTV constantly. Yeah, I was too. Like, it wasn't
Speaker 1: lost on me at all that we were on MTV.
Speaker 1: I mean it did. It's kind of hard to remember,
Speaker 1: but you you mentioned it, like MTV really was the
Speaker 1: coolest place to be at that time. Um, at least
Speaker 1: from an outsider's point of view. From an insider's point
Speaker 1: of view, like, it was fine. It was a lot
Speaker 1: more corporate than we thought it would be. It was
Speaker 1: a lot blander a lot of ways than we thought
Speaker 1: it would be. There were cool things about it, there
Speaker 1: were perks, but it was a little bit like maybe
Speaker 1: working at a at a at a record label or
Speaker 1: something where you're like, oh, yeah, this is really cool,
Speaker 1: like we make cool music, UM, but it's still a job.
Speaker 1: And that's kind of how it felt. Did Was it
Speaker 1: kind of cleared to you guys early on kind of
Speaker 1: what um, everyone's strengths were. Um? Was that pretty evident?
Speaker 1: Or did was there a long process and and sort
Speaker 1: of figuring out who was best at what? Well, we
Speaker 1: all thought that we were good at everything. We were
Speaker 1: arrogant and both within our own community and to the
Speaker 1: world at large, and that arrogance was a source of
Speaker 1: our strength, but it was also a tremendous weakness that
Speaker 1: we had. So there was a lot of jostling in
Speaker 1: the group, a lot of competitiveness, a lot of um ego,
Speaker 1: but not in terms of like I think I'm better
Speaker 1: than you, but just I think everybody felt vulnerable, and
Speaker 1: so that came out as um. You know, people would
Speaker 1: we would fight, you know, we would we would get
Speaker 1: that at each other and and there would be a
Speaker 1: lot of tension. Like we were young and immature, and
Speaker 1: we made a lot of mistakes, um, and we didn't
Speaker 1: appreciate fully the opportunity that we had. I don't think
Speaker 1: anybody could have at our age. Yeah, I mean there
Speaker 1: were so many of you two, it's like sketches tough
Speaker 1: to get for everyone to have kind of there, uh
Speaker 1: the sketches they right get on the air, the sketches
Speaker 1: they they act in be on the air. And you know,
Speaker 1: it's a challenge with a you know, four or five
Speaker 1: six people. There were eleven of us, you know, ten
Speaker 1: white guys and one white girl. And you would never
Speaker 1: construct a group like that. Nobody would do that. It's stupid.
Speaker 1: Um but we started as a college comedy club, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. We started out just like as
Speaker 1: a thing you do in college, and that's how we
Speaker 1: that's how we formed, and that's how we stayed um correctly.
Speaker 1: So I mean, you know there was there was, there was.
Speaker 1: It would have been weird if we had jettisoned anybody,
Speaker 1: you know once we got the deal, or if we
Speaker 1: had added members, um, that would have been weird too.
Speaker 1: It was an organic thing, and we kept it organic,
Speaker 1: but it it had its its um pros and cons
Speaker 1: and and the big con was that there were eleven
Speaker 1: of us and it was a totally unwieldy number. And
Speaker 1: the second thing was that there was no leader. Nobody
Speaker 1: was leading us. No, there was no but nobody was
Speaker 1: in charge. We had a producer and we leaned on
Speaker 1: him once we had the TV show, we leaned on
Speaker 1: him to kind of keep us on track, and he did.
Speaker 1: He did a great job. His name is Jim sharp Um.
Speaker 1: But the way we decided everything was by vote. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, eleven is a lot of people, but that
Speaker 1: also is a unique thing in sketch when you can
Speaker 1: whenever you had everyone sort of out there, it was
Speaker 1: so fun and chaotic. Um. It didn't happen a ton,
Speaker 1: but there's also something kind of cool about having that
Speaker 1: at your disposal when you needed. Yeah, and we were
Speaker 1: conscious of it and tried to make sure that we
Speaker 1: did do big kind of group sketches every now and
Speaker 1: again because it did. It did have a really good
Speaker 1: energy when we did that, and it was fun. Who
Speaker 1: met who first? Uh So the first the idea really
Speaker 1: emerged from another sketch group that was at n y
Speaker 1: U the year before we started a sketch group founded
Speaker 1: by Moe Williams, who was now one of the famous
Speaker 1: children's book authors and illustrators. UM and he started a
Speaker 1: sketch group called the Sterile Yak and our a guy
Speaker 1: in our group, Todd Holibeck, was a part of that.
Speaker 1: And then the way and why you worked was if
Speaker 1: you wanted funding for your group, you would have to
Speaker 1: allow other people to join your group, which makes sense.
Speaker 1: You know, you can just have a group and then
Speaker 1: be like nobody else can be in and expect to
Speaker 1: get money from the college. And so the Sterile Yak
Speaker 1: wanted to continue their second year. But to do that
Speaker 1: and to continue to get money from n why you
Speaker 1: they had to open up the group, which they didn't
Speaker 1: want to do. So Todd said, basically, I'll start a
Speaker 1: new group, like I'll leave the Sterile Yak and I'll
Speaker 1: start a new group and that way, and you guys
Speaker 1: could take a member or two and I'll start this
Speaker 1: new thing, and that way everybody will continue to get funding.
Speaker 1: So that's what he did. He used the one who
Speaker 1: organized the first kind of tryouts and rehearsals for what
Speaker 1: we then called the new group, which became the State UM.
Speaker 1: So he was so and he knew Ken Marino. They
Speaker 1: were in the same class. So Ken Marino and Todd
Speaker 1: knew each other, and they Ken Marino knew David Wayne,
Speaker 1: but David Wayne was not in was in this sterile
Speaker 1: Yakin didn't leave originally. And I think those are the
Speaker 1: only guys in that class. And then the rest of
Speaker 1: us were freshmen coming up that year. They were soft.
Speaker 1: It's just amazing. Marino is one of those guys that
Speaker 1: I just I can hardly look at his face without laughing.
Speaker 1: No matter what he's doing. He is uh, very good, annoying,
Speaker 1: he's annoyingly good. I think, well, I mean, everyone is
Speaker 1: so great. It was just it was a magical thing
Speaker 1: that it's just one of those moments in comedy history.
Speaker 1: I think that, uh, everything aligns and it's just I
Speaker 1: don't know. I'm not a big believer in like fate
Speaker 1: and the cosmos and stuff, but when you see something
Speaker 1: like this happen, it kind of makes me believe in
Speaker 1: God occasionally comedy God at least. I mean, We're hardly
Speaker 1: a miracle. But what I think we had was, um,
Speaker 1: we had a very strong work ethic, and we had
Speaker 1: that that arrogance. And then we also I think benefited
Speaker 1: from the fact that we didn't know anything about anything,
Speaker 1: so we were all we all sort of had to
Speaker 1: teach each other how to make comedy, and in doing so,
Speaker 1: I think we created a distinct voice. Um, that's what
Speaker 1: I think worked, you know. And then because we had
Speaker 1: this work ethic, we kind of you know, supported each
Speaker 1: other in that work ethic, and that translated after the
Speaker 1: state into you know, being able to carve out of
Speaker 1: careers for ourselves. I'd love to talk about Stella for
Speaker 1: a minute too. I know we can't hit like everything
Speaker 1: you've ever done, but I think Stella and wet Hot
Speaker 1: American Summer a couple of things I want to address Stella.
Speaker 1: Was I watched some more of the shorts this morning
Speaker 1: because it had been a while. I watched the show
Speaker 1: when it was on. It was just such a great idea,
Speaker 1: I think, to do this kind of throwback, kind of
Speaker 1: three Stooges esque rat packy kind of thing with your absurdist,
Speaker 1: really kind of silly comedy. Um, how much fun was Stella?
Speaker 1: That's such a dumb question, But it seems like you
Speaker 1: guys really enjoyed it. We did. We did. Three of us, me,
Speaker 1: Michael Showalter, and David Wayne really loved Stella. UM. And
Speaker 1: Stella was an outgrowth of the State. And one of
Speaker 1: the things we liked about it, of course, was that
Speaker 1: there were only three of us. You know, it made
Speaker 1: everything so much easier. But um, we still we you know,
Speaker 1: we worked really hard at it. We we worked our
Speaker 1: asses off on Stella. Um. It is so silly and
Speaker 1: it feels so throwaway and so absurd, but it was
Speaker 1: so uh deliberate. It was so crafted. I'm not saying
Speaker 1: it's well crafted, although I think it is, but it
Speaker 1: was very crafted. It was very structured, It was very Um.
Speaker 1: We thought about it a lot, and and we thought
Speaker 1: about it was always all very deliberate. Um. It's I
Speaker 1: think Stella is probably my favorite thing I've done because
Speaker 1: it was such a pure expression of itself, like it
Speaker 1: and it and it went play races that I just
Speaker 1: feel like, I felt like it was I felt like
Speaker 1: we were the only ones who could do what we
Speaker 1: were doing. It's not to say it was better than
Speaker 1: what other people are doing. I don't think it was,
Speaker 1: but it was it was unique to us, and this
Speaker 1: and the State similarly was unique to us, Like we
Speaker 1: were the only ones who could have done the State.
Speaker 1: We were the only ones who could have done Stella. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, even with wet hot American summer, that world
Speaker 1: of people started to open up a little bit and
Speaker 1: Michael and David brought in all these other people and
Speaker 1: sort of populated their universe with these other people, which
Speaker 1: ended up being amazing. But pre that, when we were
Speaker 1: doing well, I guess Stella, when we we were we
Speaker 1: had started to do Stella before wet hot um and
Speaker 1: started to make those shorts. It all felt very contained
Speaker 1: and I really uh like that and appreciate that about it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that's interesting the sort of business
Speaker 1: of comedy. I think It's really easy for people who
Speaker 1: have never tried something like that to think something like
Speaker 1: Stella is just three old friends getting together and dicking
Speaker 1: around and being goofy and having fun and rolling cameras. Um.
Speaker 1: But I'm glad to hear you talk about that a
Speaker 1: little bit and sort of demystify that because it is
Speaker 1: a lot of hard work and it is sort of
Speaker 1: serious business in a way. It can also be fun,
Speaker 1: but um, it's it is intentional and very tough to do. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was all it was. It was. It was all
Speaker 1: intentional and uh and I'm I'm yeah, I remain I
Speaker 1: remained really proud of it. What was the expectation for
Speaker 1: what Hot American Summer? Um? I mean, obviously you didn't
Speaker 1: think it was probably gonna be this. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: kind of a cultural phenomenon at this point. Well, David
Speaker 1: and Michael thought they were making a movie that was
Speaker 1: going to find commercial success, like in the theaters, and
Speaker 1: and I thought they were out of their fucking minds.
Speaker 1: I thought, there's that. I mean, I was hopeful. I
Speaker 1: was like, great, I hope it does, but I didn't
Speaker 1: think that it would, um find you know, like success
Speaker 1: in that way. But I did think that it would
Speaker 1: find its audience over time. Yeah. Uh and I was
Speaker 1: right about that, But I didn't predict that it would
Speaker 1: have the long shelf life that it's had. I didn't.
Speaker 1: I had no idea. Yeah, I mean it's uh. I mean,
Speaker 1: like I said, it's sort of a cultural phenomenon. I
Speaker 1: think it goes beyond cult movie hit two. Uh. I
Speaker 1: mean people just want still want more. They want more sequels, uh,
Speaker 1: more TV episodes. It's just a world that I think,
Speaker 1: and it's probably a lot of people from our generation
Speaker 1: who grew up on stuff like meatballs and just have
Speaker 1: such a or went to summer camps and have such
Speaker 1: a fondness for that. Uh I want more. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean was I mean, I know that it was
Speaker 1: definitely inspired by meatballs and by both of their summer
Speaker 1: camp experiences. Um. And I I was. I was just
Speaker 1: happy that they let me be a part of it.
Speaker 1: You know, I just wanted to hang out with those guys,
Speaker 1: I mean, the whole cast. I just wanted to like,
Speaker 1: I just wanted to be there and hang out. Um
Speaker 1: And so I was glad that I was able to
Speaker 1: be a part of it. Was it ever weird? After
Speaker 1: the state when people started kind of peering off and
Speaker 1: partnering up and doing different things together to include or
Speaker 1: not include people. Um. Yes, in the very beginning, it
Speaker 1: was weird and difficult. UM. For example, me, so I
Speaker 1: was the me. Tom Lennon and Ben Grant were the
Speaker 1: first ones to do it. We created a show called
Speaker 1: Viva Variety Fantastic, which was based on a sketch that
Speaker 1: Tom wrote for the state. UH, and we created a
Speaker 1: show out of it, and that created a lot of
Speaker 1: hurt feelings. People were upset with us for doing that,
Speaker 1: um because it felt I don't know, exclusionary or something,
Speaker 1: and it was you know, um. But at the same time,
Speaker 1: it also felt like, well, ship, like we have to
Speaker 1: move forward. And that was I mean, this was my thinking.
Speaker 1: We we we I have to like do something. The
Speaker 1: state is not really operable right now. UM, it has
Speaker 1: no prospects, so we have to you know, I have
Speaker 1: to find another thing to do. And this was the
Speaker 1: thing that it seemed like it would be really fun
Speaker 1: to do. UM. So then we brought in Carrie Kenny,
Speaker 1: Carry Kenny Silver, I guess and UH and we had
Speaker 1: a really good time with it and we had people
Speaker 1: from the state on it, but it was it was
Speaker 1: always it took a long time for those feelings, hurt
Speaker 1: feelings to go away. Um And I take a lot
Speaker 1: of responsibility for that, Like I feel really bad about
Speaker 1: that and continue to that it hurt people well, but
Speaker 1: I mean that's the only way. I mean, was the
Speaker 1: state still a thing at that point? It kind of was.
Speaker 1: It kind of the state. And I think in all
Speaker 1: of our minds continues to be a thing, like it
Speaker 1: has never stopped being a thing in all of our minds.
Speaker 1: It's just that we can never agree on doing anything
Speaker 1: together other than these short little things, little shows, little reunions. Um.
Speaker 1: And there's just too many of us. It's just too
Speaker 1: fucking unwieldy to do anything with. So the state was
Speaker 1: still very much uppermost in everybody's mind. But there were
Speaker 1: no there was nothing was happening. There were no offers
Speaker 1: on the table, there was no TV network stepping up,
Speaker 1: And honestly, I don't know that we could have as
Speaker 1: a group continued to go on like we burned pretty
Speaker 1: bright for reason, Like we were. It was just too
Speaker 1: much for everybody, And I think we would have disintegrated
Speaker 1: pretty quickly even if we had continued. Do you think
Speaker 1: if we just didn't have the maturity, if it would
Speaker 1: have been five or six people, It's it's impossible to say,
Speaker 1: because you know it was what it was. Um, I
Speaker 1: do think that. I mean, I know that, like if
Speaker 1: we were to do something now, it would be a
Speaker 1: totally different experience, just because none of us have the
Speaker 1: same ship to prove that we had to prove then,
Speaker 1: So I think we could all enjoy it in a
Speaker 1: way that we couldn't enjoy it then, you know, the
Speaker 1: net result of it might be that it sucks because
Speaker 1: maybe we would be complacent in a way because we
Speaker 1: weren't like clawing at each other's throats to get on air. Um.
Speaker 1: But at least I know it would be fun. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just such a fun thing for fan
Speaker 1: and still today to see whenever any of you get
Speaker 1: together for a project, whether it's uh, the David Wayne
Speaker 1: directing a movie in including like a couple of people,
Speaker 1: it's just it always feels like a little bit of
Speaker 1: that state DNA is there, and it's just such a
Speaker 1: special thing for the fans. I think, Well, it's nice
Speaker 1: for me as a fan of those guys and girls,
Speaker 1: is that. I also see it when I see their work.
Speaker 1: You know, I see, I know, I know the DNA
Speaker 1: of all the jokes that are on the screen. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, it's because it's my DNA. I just recognize it.
Speaker 1: And it's I really like that. I really like seeing
Speaker 1: their work and seeing um and and and and feeling
Speaker 1: pride in it. Not pride like I have any ownership
Speaker 1: in it. I don't, but just pride that. You know,
Speaker 1: I knew Showalter when he was, you know, seventeen years old.
Speaker 1: You know, I know the Wen know guys when they
Speaker 1: were seventeen years old. You know. It's just I just
Speaker 1: I like it. I like I like feeling a part
Speaker 1: of that. Uh. Who's doing the documentary? I mean, that's
Speaker 1: got to happen at some point, right, I don't know. Nobody,
Speaker 1: nobody has asked to do them document that's shocking to me.
Speaker 1: Maybe Judd Apatow's step up. Okay, uh so let's move
Speaker 1: over to your most recent book. I mean, you started
Speaker 1: writing books, children's books. How many years ago? I don't know? Okay,
Speaker 1: fair enough, but your most recent book. And I met
Speaker 1: you previously when we did the Uh, well, I met
Speaker 1: you a long time ago briefly, but um, when I
Speaker 1: did a sort of online uh, in conversation about your
Speaker 1: latest book, A Better A Better Man, A mostly serious
Speaker 1: letter to my son uh. And I really enjoyed that
Speaker 1: conversation because it's a it's a book that I read
Speaker 1: in like a day and a half and it's just
Speaker 1: it's so wonderful, especially as a parent too. Um. And
Speaker 1: it is mostly serious. Uh. There are plenty of funny moments,
Speaker 1: to be sure, but it's just such a sweet book,
Speaker 1: and I think reveals a side of you that maybe
Speaker 1: people don't know and can really appreciate. Well. Thanks, Um,
Speaker 1: I do appreciate that, and thank you for the kind
Speaker 1: words now and before UM, yeah, it was it was
Speaker 1: a book. It is a book that it was hard
Speaker 1: to write, and it's hard to write both because the
Speaker 1: subject matter and the subject matter really informed the form
Speaker 1: that it was going to take. And I knew that
Speaker 1: if I wrote that book, it was going to have
Speaker 1: to be pretty serious, or as the title ended up,
Speaker 1: being mostly serious. Um. And I was really scared to
Speaker 1: do that because I you know, there's nothing worse than
Speaker 1: a comedian who wants to be taken serious. It's just
Speaker 1: the worst. And I didn't you know. I was. I
Speaker 1: was afraid of stepping into that territory. Uh, but I'm
Speaker 1: glad I did. You know. The response has been really warm,
Speaker 1: And I wrote a book that I didn't know that
Speaker 1: I was capable of writing, So that feels good. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it is a warm book. And there's still I mean,
Speaker 1: even if you're not a parent, there's so much in
Speaker 1: there because you talk about your own life and your
Speaker 1: own sort of unique childhood and situation with your parents,
Speaker 1: and um, it never kind of feels like therapy for you.
Speaker 1: I imagine it was in some ways, it really wasn't
Speaker 1: really And I guess in the way that maybe you mean,
Speaker 1: like it wasn't cathartic. I wasn't shedding tears over the keyboard.
Speaker 1: I was really just trying to drill down to understand
Speaker 1: things about myself, which I guess is therapy. I mean,
Speaker 1: I guess that that's what the point of therapy is.
Speaker 1: But but you know, it was more important to me
Speaker 1: to get to um some bedrock stuff in a thoughtful way. Um,
Speaker 1: And I guess in that way it was therapeutic. But
Speaker 1: it wasn't like I didn't feel like I was dredging
Speaker 1: up things that I hadn't I thought about before. It
Speaker 1: was just that I was maybe going a little bit
Speaker 1: deeper and in a little Um I was I was
Speaker 1: I was drilling down and spreading out. I was fracking,
Speaker 1: is what I'm saying. I was fracking my psyche. Uh. Well,
Speaker 1: I was crying by the end of this thing. Uh
Speaker 1: and kind of here and there throughout him A pretty
Speaker 1: sensitive middle aged dad. So there were so many parts
Speaker 1: that just really really sweet stuff. And I'm curious, now,
Speaker 1: your son was headed to college. Did covid thwart that? Well,
Speaker 1: he did go, Um, but he had to come back
Speaker 1: uh spring break of his freshman year, and he hasn't
Speaker 1: returned yet. Has that been pretty cool having him home? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I mean I think I have quite a few friends
Speaker 1: who got started way earlier than I did because my
Speaker 1: daughter is just six and they had kids that and
Speaker 1: I feel bad for the kids, But these parents are
Speaker 1: getting bonus time. You know that you don't think you're
Speaker 1: gonna get No, that aspect of it is is nice.
Speaker 1: It is nice having him home, obviously, um. But at
Speaker 1: the same time, it's you know, I was just thinking
Speaker 1: last night as I was staring at him across the
Speaker 1: dinner table, like, dude, you need to get out of here,
Speaker 1: not just because you know he's gonna turn twenty and
Speaker 1: I just I just want him to go and and
Speaker 1: start his life. And it's hard when life just feels
Speaker 1: like it's on pause. But I think this is just
Speaker 1: gonna end up being a lost year, you know, and
Speaker 1: he'll start beginning the fall. Well that means you're good dad,
Speaker 1: because you want your kids to go and spread their
Speaker 1: wings even though you you know, kind of want to
Speaker 1: keep them forever at the same time. It's good stuff,
Speaker 1: all right, man, Well we'll move ahead. Actually, uh, you
Speaker 1: know what, I did something that I've never done before,
Speaker 1: which is I sourced some listener questions from our Facebook page.
Speaker 1: If you would indulge a few of these, sure, yeah, alright.
Speaker 1: This is from one of our admins, and I think
Speaker 1: it's a good question. Rebecca Robe, one of our long
Speaker 1: time listeners, says, I would love to know who was
Speaker 1: your favorite crew to work with. We talk a lot
Speaker 1: because I used to work on film sets and film
Speaker 1: cruise and what how that can kind of make your
Speaker 1: break and experience for everyone. And do you have a
Speaker 1: specific crew that you really really loved? Probably the crew
Speaker 1: from Ed, which is the NBC show that I did.
Speaker 1: And the only reason I say it is just because
Speaker 1: the show was on for what three and a half
Speaker 1: four seasons or something sacloths about four seasons, and the
Speaker 1: crew is pretty consistent from start to finish, and so
Speaker 1: when we spent you know, months and months and months
Speaker 1: together every year, so we just got to know each
Speaker 1: other really well. Um. So you know, there is that
Speaker 1: cliche about how crews become like families, and you know,
Speaker 1: to some extent that's true. Like you, you you see
Speaker 1: these people every day. But the difference between UH film
Speaker 1: crew and a family is that everybody in a film crew,
Speaker 1: you your paycheck demands on a certain uh level of professionalism,
Speaker 1: whereas your family membership does not. You don't need to
Speaker 1: be professional. So people have to act well, you know,
Speaker 1: they have to behave themselves on a film set, and
Speaker 1: that lends itself to a certain camaraderie I think that
Speaker 1: you don't necessarily get from your own family. It was
Speaker 1: a pleasure, I mean, it's a pleasure working with them,
Speaker 1: all right. This next one comes from line of net
Speaker 1: Big fans so excited for this episode. The question is
Speaker 1: with such a broad history and the entertainment, stand up television, movies, writing,
Speaker 1: book writing. What's been your favorite medium for yourself. I
Speaker 1: don't have one. Uh. What I find enjoyable is not
Speaker 1: being in any one thing. I sort of like the
Speaker 1: dilettante nature of my career. I like that I kind
Speaker 1: of flip from one thing to another because I get bored.
Speaker 1: You know, Um it would I think my career would
Speaker 1: be in much better shape if I had just stuck
Speaker 1: with one thing, if I'd just been like, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: be an actor and then I just really pursued acting.
Speaker 1: But I you know, like Ed is a good example,
Speaker 1: where you're on a show for three and a half
Speaker 1: years and you're just acting on it and that's really
Speaker 1: fun and you love the people, and by the end
Speaker 1: of it, you're like, I don't know that I ever
Speaker 1: want to act again, you know, so you go do
Speaker 1: something else. Um, and you know, I've spent the last
Speaker 1: I don't know how long, uh, well, you know, before Quarantine,
Speaker 1: like I was really working hard on this book. And
Speaker 1: you know, as soon as you've done with a book.
Speaker 1: I think every author feels like this. You're like, I
Speaker 1: never I'm never going to write anything else again, because
Speaker 1: this is terrible. Um, but then you know, so you
Speaker 1: go and do something else. You go do stand up
Speaker 1: and then you get sick of that, and so you
Speaker 1: go back to acting and UM. So you know the
Speaker 1: nature of my careers, I haven't been particularly successful in anything, um,
Speaker 1: but I've been able to do a lot of things,
Speaker 1: which I like. That's cool. I imagine that's a lot
Speaker 1: of fun to kind of flit back and forth between
Speaker 1: different worlds Elliott. People says, and a lot of people
Speaker 1: asked this question. It was the most asked question about
Speaker 1: a Stellar reunion. Will we get more Stella? Elliott dressed
Speaker 1: up as a sunk person for Halloween as a teenager,
Speaker 1: and I really wants to see more. Uh. You know,
Speaker 1: Stella is like the state where we you know, I
Speaker 1: think we'd like to do something, and then just life
Speaker 1: makes it hard. You know, everybody has kids, were separated geographically,
Speaker 1: we all end up with different projects and just the
Speaker 1: right moment hasn't happened where we can like get together
Speaker 1: and do something. I like to think there'd be more Stella. Um.
Speaker 1: For a lot of years, we were reuniting every year
Speaker 1: every other year at Sketch Fest in San Francisco and
Speaker 1: doing a couple of shows and those were really fun. Um,
Speaker 1: so yeah, hopefully I bet you could do Stella on
Speaker 1: Broadway at this point, I mean they did. Oh hello,
Speaker 1: Uh this is from Sammy K. Hill. Is there a
Speaker 1: role that you've turned down that you regret or one
Speaker 1: that you auditioned? There's I mean I don't turn down roles.
Speaker 1: You know. It's like there's a there's a misperception among
Speaker 1: people who aren't in show business. It's like if you
Speaker 1: get offered a job, you take the job, like, well,
Speaker 1: the second are easy to come by. Pollion jobs that
Speaker 1: I came closer that I didn't get, Well, that's the
Speaker 1: second question. Is you know one that you auditioned for
Speaker 1: that you really wanted and didn't get. The one that
Speaker 1: I really wanted that I didn't get was, um, what's
Speaker 1: his face? Is? Role? Uh? God? What is it? Uh?
Speaker 1: He's in Lord of the Rings. He's the little guy.
Speaker 1: He's very good. Oh Sean Aston or or no? Uh
Speaker 1: with the eyes. Yes, he ended up being to I
Speaker 1: can't think of it either. It was Eternal Sunshine of
Speaker 1: the Spotless Mind and he ends up he ended up
Speaker 1: in that. But it was like for a long time,
Speaker 1: like I had auditioned for it. I met Michelle Gondry,
Speaker 1: I you know, did it. I had did audition with
Speaker 1: Mark Ruffalo and like they were like sort of swinging
Speaker 1: me along for a long time, and then I, I
Speaker 1: can't believe I can't remember his name. He's the nicest
Speaker 1: guy in the world. Elijah Wood, thank you. Elijah would
Speaker 1: and then Elijah would be came available and they were like, okay,
Speaker 1: we got Elijah Word, so thanks but no, no, no, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a great movie. I could see you in that role. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I could have seen me in that role too, but
Speaker 1: didn't happen. Um. And then the other thing is, and
Speaker 1: I don't know that I regret this or not, but
Speaker 1: it would have definitely put my life on a different corpse.
Speaker 1: Was to be the host of the Late Late Show.
Speaker 1: Craig Kilborn left. It was it came down to me
Speaker 1: or Craig Ferguson Um. And there was a moment. There
Speaker 1: were there were several days where I fought the job
Speaker 1: was mine, and then it wasn't. Do you do test
Speaker 1: shows and interviews and segments and stuff for I did
Speaker 1: a week of hosting. Were they bringing guests and everything?
Speaker 1: Huh yeah, Yeah, I hosted the show for a week.
Speaker 1: Oh on TV on TV. Oh okay, I thought you
Speaker 1: meant this like an audition thing. Well it was. It
Speaker 1: was an audition to to air each audition audition I
Speaker 1: got you. Uh, if you could and this is the
Speaker 1: last one from Scott Hodgson, if you could play poker
Speaker 1: with anyone in history, who would it be? Um, somebody
Speaker 1: very wealthy and very bad at poker? Good answer. Um,
Speaker 1: all right, we will move on to your movie crush.
Speaker 1: You originally picked Miller's Crossing, which is um, one of
Speaker 1: my favorite movies of all time, but sadly we had
Speaker 1: already covered that on the show with Ben Acker. Um.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you know Ben or not, but
Speaker 1: it's his favorite movie. And you moved on to Flirting
Speaker 1: with Disaster from written and directed by David o' russell.
Speaker 1: One of my favorite movies, one of my favorite directors. Uh.
Speaker 1: He's often talk about the percent club with these directors
Speaker 1: who have made nothing but like really great movies, and
Speaker 1: David or russell is up there for me. He really
Speaker 1: great and Uh, Flirting with Disaster is one of my
Speaker 1: favorite comedies. I rewatched it in preparation for this because
Speaker 1: I hadn't seen it in a while. And there's just
Speaker 1: so much, so many funny things in it, um, little moments, um,
Speaker 1: And it doesn't what I it's it's you know, it's
Speaker 1: a very thin premise guy wants to meet his biological parents,
Speaker 1: adopted kid. But it's really full. I mean it's the
Speaker 1: characters are all really fleshed out. It's a great cast.
Speaker 1: There's so much funny stuff in it, so many unexpected
Speaker 1: twists and turns, um. And it's just really well made.
Speaker 1: And what and I like that it was. I think
Speaker 1: it's David O. Russell's Like, first it was kind of
Speaker 1: real movie. I mean he made Spanking the Monkey before
Speaker 1: that many little black and white film um. And then
Speaker 1: I think Learning with Disaster was the next one. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's right, and so as good as it is, I
Speaker 1: also feel like I'm seeing him kind of find his
Speaker 1: own footing a little bit. Um, Like I feel like
Speaker 1: he's wearing his own influences a little bit more on
Speaker 1: his sleeve than he does for the rest of his career.
Speaker 1: Like you see so much well, I mean Woody Allen
Speaker 1: is the first thing that comes to mind. That's exactly
Speaker 1: what I was gonna say. I always forget about that
Speaker 1: beginning bit with the voiceover and the different faces of
Speaker 1: New York, these people that could possibly be his parents,
Speaker 1: and that is so Woody Allen. Oh yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: so much of it is very Woody Allen esque. Um,
Speaker 1: and it's great. I mean, it doesn't feel he's not
Speaker 1: ripping anybody off by anything, but um, he uses the
Speaker 1: camera in different ways than Woody Allen ever did. Um.
Speaker 1: And the story is probably not a story Lillen would tell,
Speaker 1: but you can. But you know, you see it, and
Speaker 1: it's it's nice to see. Um. And there's just so
Speaker 1: many good actors in it. And everybody's performance is really
Speaker 1: smart and funny and um, you know, as absurd as
Speaker 1: the movie gets, and it gets really absurd, you never
Speaker 1: feel like any of them are losing the plot that
Speaker 1: you know that they're they're never losing their characters. Um,
Speaker 1: they all stay like believable in the most unbelievable situations. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean it may be one of my favorite comedy
Speaker 1: casts of all times. Um. Everyone with amazing people. So
Speaker 1: it starts with so the three leads are Ben Still
Speaker 1: or Patricia Arquette and I don't know if she pronounces
Speaker 1: a T or Ta Leoni, and I guess yeah, I think, um,
Speaker 1: all of whom have like such different energy and are
Speaker 1: all so good. Um. And then the supporting cast is
Speaker 1: unbelievable George Siegel, Mary Tyler Moore, Alan All to Lily Tomlin,
Speaker 1: Richard Jenkins, Josh Brolin. Um. When Fitzgerald, who has kind
Speaker 1: of a scene stealing part, uh, he took your role.
Speaker 1: I was watching it last night. I was like, ship,
Speaker 1: that is Michael, Michael, he should have played Lonnie. I
Speaker 1: know that's the part I would play, but like, but
Speaker 1: but like I hate that I would be cast as Lonnie.
Speaker 1: But I absolutely would be like in my head, in
Speaker 1: my head, I'm the ben still apart, but I'm just
Speaker 1: I could see that now. I could see you playing Millie.
Speaker 1: I wish I was, Well, it is funny last night
Speaker 1: the whole time. I mean, Glynn Fitzgerald did such a
Speaker 1: good job as Lonnie. But when I was watching, I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, man, it never occurred to me. And
Speaker 1: that's like I could totally see you, and I think
Speaker 1: that it would have been age appropriate, Like yeah, it
Speaker 1: would have been Yeah. I didn't even get I didn't
Speaker 1: even get the audition. Man. Uh. David Patrick Kelly in
Speaker 1: a very small part is Fritz Boudreau. I love that
Speaker 1: section because they how quickly they immediately launch. I mean
Speaker 1: it's instantaneous as father and son two seconds after they
Speaker 1: meet each other, so, you know, punching each other on
Speaker 1: the shoulder, and it's so absurd and silly, but it's
Speaker 1: it's by it. By it, you totally buy it because
Speaker 1: you understand you sir, you definitely understand where Ben Stillers
Speaker 1: coming from. And they saw their character, the Fritz whatever
Speaker 1: his last name is, You're like, You're like, I know
Speaker 1: that guy. Like that guy is believable to me. I
Speaker 1: feel like I've met that guy who will just turn
Speaker 1: on a dime from being your worst enemy to your
Speaker 1: best friend. Uh in a second and vice versa. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: and then back again. Uh old needle Dick. There's so
Speaker 1: many lines, Like my wife and I probably have more
Speaker 1: lines from this movie that we say in our real
Speaker 1: life all these years later in any other movie. I
Speaker 1: think many many lines from You're Not Good B and
Speaker 1: B people uh to all the any time any either
Speaker 1: one of us is telling the other to like to
Speaker 1: touch something or feel something, we always go, you know,
Speaker 1: no used two fingers the Pottery's scene with Lily Ta Lily.
Speaker 1: Tomlin is just so amazing and he's always trying to
Speaker 1: please everyone he meets. Each new set of potential parents,
Speaker 1: he just wants to like agree with what they're about, right,
Speaker 1: because he wants to be a part of it, you know,
Speaker 1: he wants to be part of that family. He wants
Speaker 1: to just know where he belongs. And it was the
Speaker 1: first time I feel like i'd seen Ben Stiller in
Speaker 1: a in the straight man part. Yeah, I feel like
Speaker 1: at that point I knew him from the Ben Stiller's
Speaker 1: Show and kind of his impressions that he was doing,
Speaker 1: and he was doing like a lot of character stuff,
Speaker 1: and then he came and then he did this, and
Speaker 1: I thought like, and I can, and I've thought ever since,
Speaker 1: like he's just one of the best straight men who's
Speaker 1: ever been. Um. He's just really really good at reacting
Speaker 1: UM and being human and taking and and and having
Speaker 1: the part where you're kind of seeing the world through
Speaker 1: his eyes, you know, which is a critical part of
Speaker 1: any film, Like we have to understand the world through
Speaker 1: kind of some point of view, and it's been Stiller's
Speaker 1: point of view, and we understand him. I feel like
Speaker 1: and we empathize with him and we you know, he's
Speaker 1: just really really good in it. Yeah. I mean there's
Speaker 1: so many great moments of push and pull. Um. One
Speaker 1: of the sequences I'm that stands out as with when
Speaker 1: Josh Brolin and Richard Jenkins characters are added to the
Speaker 1: Fray and and it's one of my favorite lines when
Speaker 1: he says, uh, oh, there's nothing like the hold on
Speaker 1: a second, nothing like the cruel acceptance of the casual
Speaker 1: invitations when when they come with them to uh to
Speaker 1: any Antelope Wells and and you know, everything's falling apart,
Speaker 1: and Ben Stiller says something about yeah, and you know,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna bring these two gay guys along with me too,
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, Brolin gets in his
Speaker 1: face and there's just there's just that great comedic tension. Right,
Speaker 1: So that's a great part. Yeah, and Brolin is really
Speaker 1: good in it. Uh god, yeah, just why did you
Speaker 1: say that? Gay guys? What what do you get? No?
Speaker 1: I didn't mean anything, right, It's just okay, neurotic guy.
Speaker 1: So what I am to you? I'm the neurotic guy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's what you are to me. You're the neurotic. It's
Speaker 1: just funny. I mean, they're just really good and and
Speaker 1: and yeah, um it's just great acting. It's just great acting.
Speaker 1: I think we we did uh we covered Silver Linings
Speaker 1: Playbook a few weeks on the show, and it occurred
Speaker 1: to me watching this last night too, that David Russell
Speaker 1: does this controlled chaos so well. And there are so
Speaker 1: many scenes in his movies where and it's usually handheld
Speaker 1: camera and uh, it's it's almost like a hopped up
Speaker 1: version of Robert Altman scene or something. He just does
Speaker 1: it so well and it's a really really hard thing
Speaker 1: to pull off, I think, to have the scene sort
Speaker 1: of still makes sense, and even to shoot it to
Speaker 1: block it out. And um, I just love those chaotic
Speaker 1: scenes that he puts in his movies. And he makes
Speaker 1: it look I mean I think the handheld aspect of
Speaker 1: it makes it look much more effortless than it is. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it's really hard, particularly when you've got a
Speaker 1: lot of characters. Uh, you know, when you've got six
Speaker 1: seven people in a scene and you're trying to make
Speaker 1: all of that makes sense and cut together and and
Speaker 1: be paced right and everything else like that's that's just
Speaker 1: a ton of work that's really hard to do. It is.
Speaker 1: It also has a a thing that he does well
Speaker 1: in his movies that I love in movies is when
Speaker 1: everything feels like it's just gaining momentum as the story
Speaker 1: goes forward, and it's just sort of picking up steam
Speaker 1: and going faster and faster until you usually culminates in
Speaker 1: just this amazing third act. Uh. And of course in
Speaker 1: this movie is when they they finally land Antelope Wells
Speaker 1: with Alan Aldon really Tomlin and uh, oh man, it's
Speaker 1: just wonderful. Yeah, and and and it turns into kind
Speaker 1: of like farce, I guess, with you know, people coming
Speaker 1: in and out of rooms and and doors opening and closing,
Speaker 1: and then there's sex stuff and um. But you know
Speaker 1: he's juggling a lot of balls, but you know he
Speaker 1: keeps them all aloft. It's it's great. It's really great. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's I love it when movies do that, when they
Speaker 1: bring a group of people to a place and then
Speaker 1: split them up and then you can you can have
Speaker 1: so much fun kind of inter cutting. Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: put rish Arquette up there with getting her armpit licked,
Speaker 1: Judge Rowland and then downstairs, you know, the revelation that
Speaker 1: uh that that there. You know we're former Acid while
Speaker 1: I guess still current Acid makers. Um. I think that's
Speaker 1: just such a rich, fertile land for comedy to be
Speaker 1: able to cross cut between all these absurd moments. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and they're all like you know, like even Lonnie, as
Speaker 1: crazy as he is, is like a well drawn character,
Speaker 1: like you kind of understand his total resentment towards this
Speaker 1: new guy that's showing up saying brother, I mean, it's
Speaker 1: just it's just it's just really well crafted. That. That's
Speaker 1: another one of the lines that we always say is
Speaker 1: when either one of us is repeating a story to
Speaker 1: someone else, we always go Jerry Garcia blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: It's gotta become our shorthand in a lot of ways.
Speaker 1: Um god, it's hard not to just say favorite lines
Speaker 1: over and over and over, which doesn't make for a
Speaker 1: very good podcast. Um, Broland, this is sort of the
Speaker 1: this is gonna really early on in his kind of
Speaker 1: Brolan two point oh career. Uh what was one point? Oh? Well,
Speaker 1: the Goonies, which you didn't see evidently, right you still
Speaker 1: haven't seen it? No, oh wow, you should see the Goonies.
Speaker 1: It's gonna have any interest. That's one of those movies
Speaker 1: that I'm gonna go to my grave never having seen
Speaker 1: because I know I'm not gonna it's not gonna evoke
Speaker 1: any nostalgia, right, So I'm not you know, it's not
Speaker 1: gonna it's it's not gonna scratch any itch that I
Speaker 1: might have. I feel like, let me just let it
Speaker 1: live in a lure. But yeah, I mean that was
Speaker 1: his big, kind of first movie, and then he did
Speaker 1: a lot of smaller things and then this kind of
Speaker 1: relaunched the second phase of his career, I think, and
Speaker 1: I didn't do too much after for a little bit,
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden seems like became, you know,
Speaker 1: one of the bigger, you know, kind of tough guys
Speaker 1: in uh in Hollywood. But he's so funny in this.
Speaker 1: He should do more comedy to think, Yeah, he's great.
Speaker 1: I mean, look, if you're gonna make the argument to
Speaker 1: me that Josh Brolin is great and I'm not gonna,
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna fight back, let maybe like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: agree with you. I'd like to see David o'russell do
Speaker 1: another kind of more straight ahead. I mean, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of comedy in many of his films, but something
Speaker 1: just so fun like this. There's elements of slapstick, it's
Speaker 1: kind of a road movie. It's uh situational comedy. He
Speaker 1: really throws a lot into the mix in like ninety
Speaker 1: minutes here and just pulls it all off somehow. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess you know. His next film was
Speaker 1: Three Kings, right, was that his very next one? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I think that might be my favorite of his movies. Um,
Speaker 1: but like you know, clearly his vision for what he
Speaker 1: wanted to do was maybe I don't know, broader is
Speaker 1: the right word, but he had you know, he had
Speaker 1: a grander vision for for the kinds of stuff he
Speaker 1: wanted to do. And flirting with Disaster very much feels
Speaker 1: like a huge step on that path, and then Three
Speaker 1: Kings is another big step on that path. I'd be
Speaker 1: I would love to see him do another comedy like this,
Speaker 1: just like it's straight up comedy comedy. It would be, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it would be. It would be awesome. And and I
Speaker 1: wonder I'm gonna text him and see if he's thought
Speaker 1: about it. I don't know, in middle I've never met him.
Speaker 1: I'm curious how he got these because it was really
Speaker 1: you know, Spanking the Monkey was a sort of a
Speaker 1: sun Dance hit, but very very small movie. Like you
Speaker 1: were saying, I wonder how he got these legends, Allen
Speaker 1: all the Seagull, Lily Thomlin, and Mary Tyler Moore. I
Speaker 1: wonder how he even got them in this film. Well
Speaker 1: it's a mirror Max film, right so, and I think,
Speaker 1: uh so, I think, yeah, Spanking the Monkey became a
Speaker 1: Sundance starling. And then I assume like the Weinstein's took
Speaker 1: him under their wing, and I guess he was just
Speaker 1: kind of like the hot new guy I would I
Speaker 1: would imagine. And then maybe when still are signed on,
Speaker 1: maybe it just made it much easier to to get everybody.
Speaker 1: I don't know, it'd be I'd be curious to find
Speaker 1: out about to talk a little bit. Patricia Arquette is
Speaker 1: fantastic in this movie. I feel like she's totally underrated
Speaker 1: just as as as an actress. Every time I see her,
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, yeah, Patricia Arquette is great. She is.
Speaker 1: There's a moment every time I see this movie there's
Speaker 1: a moment that I didn't notice before. And last night
Speaker 1: it was just in the beginning and the opening credits
Speaker 1: when she's in her her little lingerie getting ready for
Speaker 1: their date, and then the credits are still rolling and
Speaker 1: she plucks off rose petals and and plucks them down
Speaker 1: her shirt and then tucks one between her legs under
Speaker 1: her little negliche. And I never know her but her
Speaker 1: it's not just that she does it, which she does
Speaker 1: and it's funny, and I don't know if that was
Speaker 1: directed or not, but then her her reaction to herself
Speaker 1: doing that was really good too. And I remember noting
Speaker 1: that action. Now I can't even remember what the reaction was,
Speaker 1: but I remember thinking, God, that's really good. Like whatever
Speaker 1: you're doing there is just really honest. And and she
Speaker 1: just is so open to the camera. She's just so
Speaker 1: emotionally available to whatever is going on around her. That's
Speaker 1: what makes her so great. I think, Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: she does. She kind of giggles almost when she maybe
Speaker 1: that's what it is, she kind of giggles, And I
Speaker 1: mean it looked like she just sort of did it
Speaker 1: on the spot, probably improbbed it and then laughed at
Speaker 1: what she was doing. Um. But she's also stars in
Speaker 1: True Romance, which I think is just on one of
Speaker 1: my favorites. We haven't done that on the show yet.
Speaker 1: I'm surprised no one to pick that one yet. She
Speaker 1: does that. She has this natural thing. Just the way,
Speaker 1: just the way she says a line to me is
Speaker 1: just very believable. And that's a that's a really hard
Speaker 1: thing to do as an actor. That's what I mean
Speaker 1: by like, she just like you just don't you don't
Speaker 1: see her acting at least I don't like, I just
Speaker 1: don't see the the acting. I just see her reacting
Speaker 1: and being Um, that's really hard. I mean it's for
Speaker 1: somebody like me who's a total ham and self conscious
Speaker 1: and always sees him self acting, Like, to see somebody
Speaker 1: do that, it just I'm always kind of awestruck. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's amazing. Um, I want to talk a little
Speaker 1: bit about that. And when you know, I was talking
Speaker 1: about the movie sort of gaining momentum and the chaos,
Speaker 1: and then it really culminates when Lonnie doses, Uh what
Speaker 1: were they They're not FBI? What are they? Are they there? Tobacco,
Speaker 1: alcohol and firearms? Whatever? That Yeah, a t f um.
Speaker 1: When they dose him with let's D and the table
Speaker 1: scene is getting kind of funny and you know, if
Speaker 1: you the first time you see it, don't really notice,
Speaker 1: but he starts coming on at the table and he's
Speaker 1: just sort of reacting and sort of looking at things
Speaker 1: and shaking his out a little bit. But once you've
Speaker 1: seen it, you sort of key in on him in
Speaker 1: that scene and it's just I mean, Richard J. Kids
Speaker 1: is just amazing and everything he's in. But from that
Speaker 1: moment on, some of the funnier drug writing uh as
Speaker 1: towards this actual lines that people might say that I've
Speaker 1: seen in movies, and he plays it early. Where's Your
Speaker 1: Jenkins plays being on an acid trip really well, Like
Speaker 1: that's a hard I think I've never tried it, but
Speaker 1: I think that's a really hard thing to do as
Speaker 1: an actor, you know, to be like yeah, to just
Speaker 1: like the keyed into that and have it be believable.
Speaker 1: And you see him like struggling to make sense of
Speaker 1: the moment and being like I'm arresting you, but still
Speaker 1: clearly and like part of him is there, part of
Speaker 1: him isn't there. It's great, It's just great. Yeah. The
Speaker 1: very first thing he says, is this a musical table?
Speaker 1: Is this a musical table? And he has his ear
Speaker 1: down and when you watch it for the first time
Speaker 1: and like I'm trying to remember the first time, I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, ship, this is amazing, like where this
Speaker 1: is headed? Uh? And you know, one of the great
Speaker 1: music cues of all time. And I'm no grateful dead fan,
Speaker 1: but when when trucking is playing and you can't catch
Speaker 1: the wind and he's running through the desert is just
Speaker 1: one of the great moments movie has treated me. And
Speaker 1: you know, it's like eight hours later, you know it's
Speaker 1: he's been going through this for so long because he
Speaker 1: like quadrupled, does him or something? Three or four a
Speaker 1: half taps, two and a half taps. I'm sorry, I
Speaker 1: put window pane. We always laugh at that that line.
Speaker 1: I mean your wail, yeah on your coail. It's uh.
Speaker 1: I mean, what can you say about him and this
Speaker 1: in any comedy that you can watch. I mean, I've
Speaker 1: probably seen this movie ten times, and my wife and
Speaker 1: I watched it last night and laughed throughout the entire
Speaker 1: thing like it was the first time we've seen it. Well,
Speaker 1: what's great is when you know the first time you
Speaker 1: watch something you laugh because of this unfolding and you
Speaker 1: know you're you're experiencing it. The way the characters are.
Speaker 1: You're seeing it for the first time, but then on
Speaker 1: subsequent viewings you start to pick up everything that everybody's
Speaker 1: doing person by person, and yeah, that those those moments
Speaker 1: are always really fun because you feel like, oh, I'm
Speaker 1: in on a secret club, like I understand something about
Speaker 1: this film. Um that's deeper than just what I would
Speaker 1: have seen on a first viewing. Yeah, and it ends
Speaker 1: up being a very sweet sort of uh story too.
Speaker 1: And but he doesn't hit you over the head with it.
Speaker 1: I think he could have been a lot more um
Speaker 1: saccharin about the whole thing with the character realizes that,
Speaker 1: you know, his own family is his real family and
Speaker 1: all that stuff. But I think he just handled it
Speaker 1: just in a pitch perfect way how he doled that out. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean he doesn't. Yeah, he definitely doesn't knock you
Speaker 1: on the head with it. He's just like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean that's that is the ultimate realization. And it's lovely
Speaker 1: And it's not just the bends still a Patricia Arquette family, Like,
Speaker 1: it's it's all the families are those are the those
Speaker 1: those those are the people that you know they're stuck
Speaker 1: with for better, for worse. That there, and and you
Speaker 1: know it feels like for all them it's for the better,
Speaker 1: Like you're just seeing different models of relationships and and
Speaker 1: understanding that every marriage, they say in the film, every
Speaker 1: marriage is fragile. Yeah, And he's just showing you all
Speaker 1: the different ways they can be. Yeah. And the the
Speaker 1: I think the little sometimes it's the sort of little
Speaker 1: decisions you make as a filmmaker. You can really glue
Speaker 1: it together. And I think in this case it's the
Speaker 1: naming of the baby. They throw that out at the beginning.
Speaker 1: It's a great little setup. Then it comes around at
Speaker 1: the end and it's just such a nice little bookend.
Speaker 1: I think, Yeah, it's just really well constructed script. I
Speaker 1: have one final line that I'm gonna throw on you
Speaker 1: well too, the conversation between Lily Tomline and Alan Aldo
Speaker 1: with the dispass at Colin. Yeah, she goes, I'll do reflex,
Speaker 1: I'll do reflex. Yeah. And but but I love it
Speaker 1: like you're seeing her considerate, like you're seeing like you're
Speaker 1: seeing the gears tumbling in her mind. She's like thinking
Speaker 1: about which thing she's gonna do. She's like she's got
Speaker 1: a little rolodex of stories that she can go through. Okay,
Speaker 1: she's gonna do reflex and it and it's great. All right,
Speaker 1: I'll do reflex. I'll do reflex. So great. Uh. And
Speaker 1: then at the end with Richard Jenkins, um, you know
Speaker 1: how his story culminates. He's standing there in his sport
Speaker 1: code and his underwear and uh, still flying and says
Speaker 1: I had an experience. I resisted at first, and then
Speaker 1: it evolved and it continues to evolve, and you get
Speaker 1: the sense like he's not going back, like he took
Speaker 1: his trip and he arrived at a destination and you
Speaker 1: feel like, oh yeah, good, we we like you at
Speaker 1: this new destination. So great. Uh, well, thanks man, I
Speaker 1: appreciate you coming on and picking this great movie for
Speaker 1: me to watch again. Um, and appreciate your time. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: my pleasure was really fun and everyone should go out
Speaker 1: and get a better man. A mostly serious letter to
Speaker 1: my son. Any other books you want to plug or
Speaker 1: all of them? Um, you know, Frankenstein is good. I'm
Speaker 1: reading that right now. If you haven't read Mary Shelley's Frankenstein,
Speaker 1: it's good. You know what my wife said the other day,
Speaker 1: I was kind of throwing that old dumb joke at her,
Speaker 1: said you know, Frankenstein is the doctor and she said, well,
Speaker 1: who was the robot? So I've been giving your shit
Speaker 1: about that for three weeks now root. All right, man,
Speaker 1: thanks a lot, and uh and I'll talk to you soon. Okay,
Speaker 1: my pleasure, Thanks Jack, Bye, alright, everyone. I hope you
Speaker 1: enjoyed that as much as I did. He was. He's
Speaker 1: a great guy and super nice, super nice dude. Very
Speaker 1: kind of him to take some time out to talk
Speaker 1: about flirting with disaster in his career. So much fun
Speaker 1: talking about all that state stuff. Um to get to
Speaker 1: ask him listener questions, that's a that's a new thing
Speaker 1: that I really enjoyed. I think I'll do more of that. Uh.
Speaker 1: And I just loved how open he was and about
Speaker 1: the talking about the state. I wasn't quite sure. Sometimes
Speaker 1: people don't like to talk about that stuff. And he
Speaker 1: was very generous with his answers and with his honesty
Speaker 1: and with his time. So big thanks to Michael Ian Black.
Speaker 1: Go out and get his book A Better Man, A
Speaker 1: mostly serious letter to my son, Or check out children's
Speaker 1: books that he's written. Uh. They're all great, and he's
Speaker 1: a he's a wonderful writer as well as actor. And comedian,
Speaker 1: so big thanks to him, and thank you guys for
Speaker 1: listening and we'll see you next week. Movie Crash is
Speaker 1: produced and written by Charles Bryant and Roll Brown, edited
Speaker 1: and engineered by Seth Nicholas Johnson, and scored by Noel
Speaker 1: Brown here in our home studio at Pontsty Market, Atlanta, Georgia.
Speaker 1: For I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for my heart Radio,
Speaker 1: visit the i Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.