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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, welcome to I've never said this before with me,

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Speaker 1: Tommy di Dario. I am so excited to share this

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Speaker 1: conversation with you with one of the most thoughtful and

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Speaker 1: brilliant humans I've had the pleasure of chatting with the

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Speaker 1: very talented actor and singer Ben Barnes is hanging out

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Speaker 1: with me today. So on the acting side, Ben has

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Speaker 1: become known as the King of Fantasy. He starred as

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Speaker 1: Prince Caspian and the Chronicles of Narnia franchise, then he

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Speaker 1: went on to do Dorian Gray, Killing Bono, Westworld, The Marvels,

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Speaker 1: The Punisher, and of course play the fan favorite villain

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Speaker 1: in the wildly popular Netflix series Shadow and Bone. And

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Speaker 1: because his talent can't be contained to just one art form,

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Speaker 1: he is also a brilliant singer and songwriter. His debut album,

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Speaker 1: Where the Light Gets In is out right now, and

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Speaker 1: let me tell you m his lyrics are magical. He

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Speaker 1: connects to the human spirit in such a way that's

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Speaker 1: gonna leave you feeling seen and heard and like your voice,

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Speaker 1: your life journey truly matters. That's the magic of Ben Barnes.

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Speaker 1: And he was so kind to invite me to his

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Speaker 1: New York City performance at Webster Hall where, oh man,

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Speaker 1: the only way I can describe his show is that

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Speaker 1: it was electric. Today we are celebrating all of the

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Speaker 1: things that come together to make Ben Barnes who he

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Speaker 1: truly is, the man behind some of your favorite roles

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Speaker 1: and the man behind the music. So let's see if

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Speaker 1: today we can get Ben to say something that he

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Speaker 1: has never said before. Ben Barnes, how you doing, my man?

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Speaker 2: Very well? Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 1: I am so happy to have you here. Welcome to

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Speaker 1: New York. I know you've been on a whirldwind tour.

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Speaker 1: You don't even probably know what city you're in right now.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I definitely have almost gone on stage and done

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Speaker 3: that spinal tap reference of Hello Cleveland. We've never been

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Speaker 3: anywhere in Italy, but it has been. It's been really,

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Speaker 3: really fun, magical.

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Speaker 1: Congratulations. We have so much to get into. I was

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Speaker 1: listening to your album the other day and it's fantastic.

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Speaker 1: I'm a sucker for drama and soulful lyrics and real

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Speaker 1: connection in music, and I'm probably one of the rare

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Speaker 1: people who can listen to that type of music in

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Speaker 1: the gym when I'm working out, like I don't need

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Speaker 1: like a banger, I don't need like the beats like

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Speaker 1: I like to envision what I'm listening to and create

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Speaker 1: the story as I'm working out, and your album is

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Speaker 1: very much that.

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Speaker 2: I like, something kind of filmic and.

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Speaker 1: I do I do together, I really do. And I thought,

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Speaker 1: I think what you did with that is brilliant. We're

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Speaker 1: going to dive into it. But I find your story

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Speaker 1: so fascinating. So at nineteen, as she began writing music

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Speaker 1: right and kind of started working with producers or your

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Speaker 1: teen years.

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Speaker 3: I had a very short foray into into music. When

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Speaker 3: I was nineteen, I was I was signed to Simon Fuller,

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Speaker 3: who had created the Spice Girls.

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Speaker 1: Yes and name Drop.

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Speaker 3: We were working on a well. I mention it only

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Speaker 3: because it kind of provides balance to the story, which

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Speaker 3: is that it only lasted a few weeks and I

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Speaker 3: was recording kind of like jazz standards. I think you

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Speaker 3: thought it might be an interesting idea to have a

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Speaker 3: teenager singing kind of like rap pack music essentially, and

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Speaker 3: there was sort of lots of big ideas for it,

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Speaker 3: but then it just very quickly kind of fell by

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Speaker 3: the wayside as I came to understand a lot of

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Speaker 3: those projects do and over the last twenty years of

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Speaker 3: working in entertainment, I now fully understand how things come

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Speaker 3: and go and they fall apart. But at the time,

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Speaker 3: when you're nineteen and aspirational and every next step you

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Speaker 3: take you think is going to be the step which

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Speaker 3: takes you up the golden escalator to the place that

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Speaker 3: you've dreamed of, I think it was more difficult to accept.

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Speaker 3: I think I think you get better at enduring rejection

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Speaker 3: and enduring not every being the moment as you get

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Speaker 3: on in this career, because it's not a smooth ride.

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Speaker 1: For anybody, right, right, And then you kind of transition

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Speaker 1: and had this amazing career and continue to have an

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Speaker 1: amazing career in the acting world, becoming a king of

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Speaker 1: a fantasy and that genre right and really doing it

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Speaker 1: for over two decades. And then suddenly now you're in

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Speaker 1: this beautiful era with your music. So what made you say, Okay,

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Speaker 1: you know what it's time for my music, like, I

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Speaker 1: need to go revisit that at this point in my career.

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Speaker 3: I think it was a combination of a couple of things.

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Speaker 3: I think initially I found that being on different films

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Speaker 3: and TV shows I was getting itchy to have a

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Speaker 3: little bit more control and a little bit more say,

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Speaker 3: and invest a little bit more of myself in the

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Speaker 3: scripts and in the characters that I was working on.

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Speaker 3: But there has to be an acceptance when you're an

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Speaker 3: actor that somebody else has written this script, somebody else

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Speaker 3: is producing, somebody else's designing the costume, somebody else is directing,

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Speaker 3: and their vision might not be exactly aligned with yours

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Speaker 3: for any particular project. And so I think you can

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Speaker 3: go to the writers you know as often as you

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Speaker 3: want and say I don't think I would say this

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Speaker 3: line exactly this way, and you could switch three words around,

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Speaker 3: but actually it's not garnering any kind of real control.

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Speaker 3: And I think for a lot of creative people, releasing

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Speaker 3: control of a creative project whilst during the midst of

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Speaker 3: it is a very difficult thing. And I think I

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Speaker 3: was yearning to inject something of myself and to sew

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Speaker 3: something of myself into a lot of these characters. But

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Speaker 3: then you know, the last particularly the last six or

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Speaker 3: seven years, I've been playing a lot of psychopaths and

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Speaker 3: murderers and liars, and there wasn't very much room for

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Speaker 3: negotiating myself into these characters, and so I think part

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Speaker 3: of it was realizing that if you have something to

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Speaker 3: say in the world, or you want to share something

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Speaker 3: of yourself in the world, or you want to kind

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Speaker 3: of offer up something into the creative universe, that you

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Speaker 3: have to start with a blank piece of paper and

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Speaker 3: it has to be on your terms. But that means

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Speaker 3: that it's entirely on your shoulders as well, and anything

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Speaker 3: that kind of comes of it that feels successful will

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Speaker 3: be you know, you don't have to credit anybody else.

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Speaker 3: But equally, if it doesn't kind of go the way

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Speaker 3: that you'd hoped, it's nobody's fault but your own. And

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Speaker 3: so I think it's harder to kind of take up

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Speaker 3: that mantle of the blank piece of paper.

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Speaker 2: Is historically scary.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So I think that was the first thing, and

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Speaker 3: the second thing was really I think when the pandemic

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Speaker 3: struck and people were given you know, everyone was given

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Speaker 3: two things. A lot of extra time to muse and

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Speaker 3: to think on what their dreams and goals and aspirations

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Speaker 3: might be for the rest of their life given the opportunity,

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Speaker 3: And I think that second bit was important that everyone

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Speaker 3: was kind of faced with the mortality of themselves and

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Speaker 3: the people that they care about, and there's an insistence

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Speaker 3: that you reprioritize. For me, that meant going back twenty

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Speaker 3: years to the thing that I really wanted to spend

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Speaker 3: a lot of time doing, and the thing i'd all

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Speaker 3: through high school put all of my energy into, which

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Speaker 3: was singing and making music and making music with groups

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Speaker 3: and bands of other people. And coming back to that,

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Speaker 3: and I think i'd just been a very private person

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Speaker 3: through my acting career. I didn't like sharing a lot

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Speaker 3: in interviews. I didn't like giving up like what I

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Speaker 3: deemed to be sort of sacred parts of my own life.

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Speaker 3: You hired behind a character and you pretend to be that.

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Speaker 3: But I actually released some of that, I think during

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Speaker 3: my thirties, and actually doing the music was the final

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Speaker 3: piece of that puzzle to really realize that there wasn't

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Speaker 3: anything to be afraid of. People's judgment is not something

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Speaker 3: to fear, because they're going to do it regardless of

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Speaker 3: what you do spend your time doing so, I think

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Speaker 3: I projected forward to the eighty year old version of

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Speaker 3: myself at the beginning of the pandemic and thought, will

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Speaker 3: that man be proud of the way I've lived my

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Speaker 3: life and the way I've done this. And one of

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Speaker 3: the answers was the fact that you love music so

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Speaker 3: much and you enjoyed doing it so much, and you

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Speaker 3: feel like you have at least some skill in this

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Speaker 3: area and have the opportunity to and you didn't do

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Speaker 3: it for fear of judgment.

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Speaker 2: That would not make me proud.

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Speaker 1: Hmmm.

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Speaker 2: So that was like a big motivator as well.

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Speaker 1: So would you say when you were ready to release

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Speaker 1: your music and put it out into the world, even

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Speaker 1: though you had been known predominantly as an actor, were

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Speaker 1: you able to push through that anxiety knowing that this

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Speaker 1: would make you happy in the future looking at your

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Speaker 1: future self, or did you still have some anxiety saying, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm about to put this all out there.

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Speaker 3: It was, It was in steps. It was incremental. I

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Speaker 3: think there was more than one aspect to it. I

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Speaker 3: was afraid that people would dig into the songs and

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Speaker 3: the lyrics and try and kind of insinuate things.

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Speaker 2: About my life life.

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Speaker 3: Also, I was afraid that people wouldn't necessarily take me

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Speaker 3: as seriously as an actor if I was also trying

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Speaker 3: to do this thing.

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Speaker 2: I mean, we grew up.

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Speaker 3: You know. I think in the era of watching like

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Speaker 3: a lot of massive pop stars try their hand at

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Speaker 3: acting in movies and stuff to usually pretty disastrous to

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Speaker 3: pretty disastrous effect, And I remember feeling judgment of that, thinking,

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Speaker 3: stay in your lane, like you're like a world superstar

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Speaker 3: at doing this. Why are you pretending that just anyone

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Speaker 3: can be an actor just because they can read? And

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Speaker 3: I think I had concerned that people might feel the

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Speaker 3: same the other way around, but they also might judge

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Speaker 3: the kind of music that I wanted to put out,

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Speaker 3: because you don't really know what kind of music you

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Speaker 3: put out.

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Speaker 2: I think, unless you're sort of.

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Speaker 3: Plagiarizing something, you don't really know what kind of music

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Speaker 3: you put you're going to put out until you finished it,

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Speaker 3: right Because with my music, for example, I'm obsessed with

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Speaker 3: with kind of nineteen seventies music, soulomotown, a lot of

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Speaker 3: those kind of like rock bands from that era, and

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Speaker 3: I think all of those things that I've listened to

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Speaker 3: have kind of infused everything that I want to make.

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Speaker 3: But it's all passed through the filter of my experience,

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Speaker 3: and it's passed through it's passed through my vocal cords,

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Speaker 3: and it's passed through the fingers of the people playing

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Speaker 3: on the album and everything that they've ever listened to,

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Speaker 3: and so it becomes this completely different and new thing,

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Speaker 3: no matter how hard you try to make it sound

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Speaker 3: like something that you love. And so I think I

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Speaker 3: had fear that I wouldn't maybe even like what I

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Speaker 3: ended up making.

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Speaker 2: And then where would I be?

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Speaker 3: And also I knew that, you know, if I put

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Speaker 3: on a show, even if I put it on in

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Speaker 3: a place where there was only one hundred people, there

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Speaker 3: would be one hundred phones filming it and it would

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Speaker 3: end up.

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Speaker 2: Online and you know, millions of people would see it.

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Speaker 3: So I think I think there was I definitely put

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Speaker 3: pressure on myself, But that's something that I've spent the

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Speaker 3: last few years trying to work on doing differently anyway

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Speaker 3: to release myself of that pressure in that judgment, because

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Speaker 3: in the end, we're all floating through space on a rock,

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Speaker 3: So what does it really matter? But I think, you know,

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Speaker 3: I'm someone to whom everything has always mattered pretty hard.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Well what I love is that you did it.

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Speaker 1: You didn't let that dissuade you and say, you know what, Ah,

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Speaker 1: I'm just going to keep acting and stay in that lane,

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Speaker 1: and you followed through. And I know you had an

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Speaker 1: EP of about five songs a few years ago, and

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Speaker 1: this is your debut album, and you followed through and

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Speaker 1: you did it. And I'm very interested with humanity and

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Speaker 1: with people. You know, when you reach a certain point

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Speaker 1: in your life. I just turned thirty nine, and people

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Speaker 1: think that, you know, you hear forty, and it's like, oh, no,

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Speaker 1: you can't do something new, or you can't do something

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Speaker 1: you're not known for. And yes, I'm a host, I'm

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Speaker 1: an interviewer, but there are other things outside of this

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Speaker 1: that I'm trying to do and get made and happen

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Speaker 1: that is not related to this. And so many people

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Speaker 1: would look at that and say, well good luck, bro,

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Speaker 1: Like you're gonna be forty next year. You think you

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Speaker 1: can just do something in a totally different world than

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Speaker 1: the one you're known for, and it's like, fuck, yeah

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Speaker 1: you can, Like, yes you can, and why not go

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Speaker 1: for it? And I like that you have that mentality too.

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Speaker 1: You're like, I'm granted you have a background, but you

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Speaker 1: know you didn't say to the point you just made Nope,

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to do it because the world might

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Speaker 1: not want it, or I have success in one lane

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Speaker 1: like you're doing it.

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Speaker 3: How do you feel about forty outside of professional endeavor, Like.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I think it's young, Like for me, I'm not.

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Speaker 1: I think age is such an interesting person because I'm

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Speaker 1: at the age now where I'll be sitting across from

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Speaker 1: somebody and my age will come up and they'll be like,

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Speaker 1: you're thirty nine. No, I'm like, well, you know, you

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Speaker 1: saying that implies that that's like some ancient age, Like

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Speaker 1: I know you mean well, And I don't take it personally,

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Speaker 1: but it's just such a funny concept to me, because

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Speaker 1: you know, it's just the implication of that. And probably

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Speaker 1: when I was twenty eight I thought that too, you know.

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Speaker 3: So I remember being thirty nine and having this kind

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Speaker 3: of like cold dread of forty hit it. And then

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Speaker 3: I remember to about two days after my fortieth birthday,

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Speaker 3: I had an audition and I walked into a room

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Speaker 3: and the casting director sort of chatted to me for

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Speaker 3: a minute, and then she looked down at my resume

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Speaker 3: or whatever she was holding, and she was like, oh, oh,

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Speaker 3: you're forty, right, And this sort of smile crept across

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Speaker 3: my face because I realized that the character that I

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Speaker 3: was going in for was like a really interesting character,

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Speaker 3: and you could tell there was a sort of a

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Speaker 3: level of, I don't know if quite respect is quite

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Speaker 3: the right word, but a level of a level of

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Speaker 3: appreciation of lived experience that maybe I might have it

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Speaker 3: in me too to be this. And then and after

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Speaker 3: that moment, I sort of never look back about the aging.

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Speaker 3: And every night on stage I have a song called

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Speaker 3: called Someday on the album about sort of not allowing

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Speaker 3: people to hold you back from your dreams. But it's

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Speaker 3: a really sort of head Noddy Dancy kind of song,

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Speaker 3: and I play it last on tour and I talk about,

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Speaker 3: you know, I talk to the audience saying, if you

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Speaker 3: take one thing away from this show, don't let people

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Speaker 3: stand in the way of spending your precious time on

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Speaker 3: this planet doing the things that you love to do.

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Speaker 2: Whatever those are, it doesn't matter.

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Speaker 3: And if I can stand up here at forty three

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Speaker 3: and sort of be near the beginning of a pop,

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Speaker 3: you know, pop music career, then you two can get

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Speaker 3: out and do whatever the thing is that you've been

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Speaker 3: dreaming about doing, and it doesn't have to be on

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Speaker 3: some grand scale. And it's interesting how that was clearly

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Speaker 3: not something I set out to do to make people

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Speaker 3: feel like they could have space or opportunity or permission

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Speaker 3: to go and do creative things or physical things or

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Speaker 3: intellectual things that they have put off doing. But in

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Speaker 3: response to the EP that I put out, I think

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Speaker 3: I do tend to write songs that are essentially about hope.

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Speaker 3: I think all actually all great art in terms of

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Speaker 3: like films, TV shows, whatever, essentially when you distill them down.

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Speaker 2: There really about hopefulness.

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Speaker 3: But I find it very difficult not to write about

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Speaker 3: that thematically. And I think that one of the upshots

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Speaker 3: of putting out the EP, which I really hadn't seen,

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Speaker 3: was lots of people saying this song made me want

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Speaker 3: to go and do this, And then you realize, once

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Speaker 3: you put music out into the world, it immediately becomes

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Speaker 3: not about you. And people always used to say that

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Speaker 3: to me about films, and I've said in interviews many

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Speaker 3: years ago that I think, you know, a film is

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Speaker 3: basically just a collection of scenes edited together until someone

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Speaker 3: who has had nothing to do with the film watches it,

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Speaker 3: and then it becomes a film because then there's an

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Speaker 3: organic and true reaction to what someone has made. Then

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Speaker 3: it's really a film when you've given it over to

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Speaker 3: someone else. But I didn't really think about it with

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Speaker 3: music until I was putting it out. But I think

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Speaker 3: it's even more true and strong when it comes to

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Speaker 3: a song because you think of all the songs that

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Speaker 3: you've ever loved. You're not thinking about the experience of

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Speaker 3: the sing out. You're not thinking about the experience of

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Speaker 3: the songwriter. You're thinking about how that music affects you,

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Speaker 3: how it connects to you.

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Speaker 2: How it relates to your life.

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Speaker 3: You know, when I try to think of a different

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Speaker 3: example when I talk about this, because I've had this

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Speaker 3: conversation with bandmates and friends and people I've written songs with.

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Speaker 3: But you know, if you listen to Prince sing I

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Speaker 3: just want your extra time and your kiss, You're not

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Speaker 3: thinking whose extra time does Prince want?

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Speaker 2: You're thinking whose extra time do I want?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 2: Whom?

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Speaker 3: Who comes into my mind when I listen to this song?

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Speaker 3: And I think it's so immediate when you're singing songs,

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Speaker 3: particularly when you're singing live for someone, and the reaction

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Speaker 3: is so immediate. They're looking up at you and they're

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Speaker 3: having their own experience that is not yours. And I

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Speaker 3: have to remind myself. I get very nervous before shows

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Speaker 3: because it feels like when you've got a thousand, two

336
00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:02,040
Speaker 3: thousand people watching you see songs that you wrote alone

337
00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:05,239
Speaker 3: in a room, it feels quite raw. But then I

338
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Speaker 3: remind myself what it feels like to go to a

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Speaker 3: concert and how I have no judgment or expectation of

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Speaker 3: what's about to happen on a stage. I just think, oh,

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Speaker 3: hope it's good, and then I'm in my own emotional

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Speaker 3: experience of listening to a song. You know, I've definitely

343
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Speaker 3: like cried at concerts before where where.

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Speaker 2: I'm in my own head about my own stuff.

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Speaker 3: But there's something about the core progressional a particular lyric

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Speaker 3: that it's like struck me.

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Speaker 2: It's got nothing to do with a person who's delivering it.

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Speaker 1: Like I said earlier, this album, man, I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: just the lyrically. It's beautiful. I think it's just beautiful.

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Speaker 1: It's your debut album.

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Speaker 2: I mean so much.

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Speaker 3: You just say that in particular because I don't let

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Speaker 3: anyone else write obviously lyrics.

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Speaker 2: I do do get music.

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Speaker 3: I did get music support on the album because I'd

356
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Speaker 3: written all the songs myself with the EP, and musically,

357
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Speaker 3: I think it's a really good thing to kind of collaborate,

358
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Speaker 3: But songs feel like babies, and if you let someone

359
00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:13,399
Speaker 3: else sort of mess with the lyrics, it feels like

360
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Speaker 3: it's maybe not yours anymore. I know a lot of

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Speaker 3: people don't feel that way, but for me, yea, words

362
00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:23,080
Speaker 3: have always been my main tool. And I think for

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Speaker 3: all the things I was afraid of in putting out

364
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Speaker 3: something new creatively, there was also rewards to be found

365
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Speaker 3: along the way in terms of finding things that you're

366
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Speaker 3: I think it's hard to learn new things in your

367
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Speaker 3: thirties and forties, but to find those little things that

368
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Speaker 3: you are sort of organically good at that you didn't

369
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Speaker 3: necessarily know you were, it was like a real, really

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Speaker 3: unexpected reward of this kind of process. And I would

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Speaker 3: find that I would write songs with people and they

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00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:57,600
Speaker 3: would help me so much, and they would understand things

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Speaker 3: that I never have a hope of understanding in terms

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Speaker 3: of music itself. But then afterwards they might say that

375
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Speaker 3: was great, can you help me with the lyrics for

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Speaker 3: this song that I'm writing? And you know, I realize

377
00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:12,080
Speaker 3: I have a facility with that, and like a real

378
00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:16,600
Speaker 3: passion a real passion for like finding little lyrical hooks

379
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Speaker 3: for songs that sound like phrases or idioms or sayings

380
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Speaker 3: or whatever, but are actually fresh and new to you.

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Speaker 3: And it's something that I've discovered that I really really

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Speaker 3: love to do.

383
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the messages and the lyrics on this

384
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Speaker 1: album you speak about so much. I love the title

385
00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:36,800
Speaker 1: of the album too. I think it's so fantastic and

386
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Speaker 1: and just poetic and very on theme with you know

387
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Speaker 1: what you write in the collection you put together Where

388
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Speaker 1: the Light Gets In, of course is the name for

389
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Speaker 1: everybody listening. You talk about everything from anxiety to letting

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Speaker 1: go to you know, being loved and the right to

391
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Speaker 1: be loved and be loved as you say, and in

392
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Speaker 1: the so much you cover in such a collection of music.

393
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Speaker 1: So for you, what was the main thing you were

394
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Speaker 1: hoping to achieve with this album collectively?

395
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Speaker 3: I think I wanted it to feel honest and authentic

396
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Speaker 3: to my lived experience. And I think that goes all

397
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Speaker 3: the way from very exciting kind of fizzy feelings that

398
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Speaker 3: you have when you first meet someone in a romantic way,

399
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Speaker 3: all the way through to like considering the mortality of

400
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Speaker 3: your parents and trying to wrestle with the idea of

401
00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:40,280
Speaker 3: them not being around at some point through to you know,

402
00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:43,120
Speaker 3: kind of nostalgically looking back at friendships that have been

403
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:46,560
Speaker 3: fallen by the wayside and you're not quite sure why,

404
00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:50,679
Speaker 3: or regretting that you didn't love someone in a certain

405
00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:52,639
Speaker 3: kind of way, or wishing you could have loved them differently.

406
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Speaker 3: All these all these different kinds of things that make us,

407
00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:58,159
Speaker 3: that make us who we are, and all those decisions

408
00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:00,879
Speaker 3: that you have made your life that have led you

409
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Speaker 3: to where you are, and kind of like I think

410
00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:05,119
Speaker 3: it was aligned very much with where I was in

411
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:07,760
Speaker 3: my life a few years ago, trying to just sort

412
00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:11,119
Speaker 3: of accept all those things and realize that every decision

413
00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:12,800
Speaker 3: you've ever made has brought you to where you are,

414
00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:14,320
Speaker 3: and if you don't regret where you are, I shouldn't

415
00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:20,720
Speaker 3: regret those decisions. And I think that once i'd written

416
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:22,840
Speaker 3: that song where the Light Gets In, which I wrote

417
00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:24,679
Speaker 3: that's the only song I wrote with two of the

418
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Speaker 3: band members of Maroon five, because I had this little

419
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Speaker 3: hook lyrically already, but I just I didn't have an

420
00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:35,320
Speaker 3: idea of what it sounded like. I had some other

421
00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:39,199
Speaker 3: songs in my head that were had the warmth that

422
00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:42,560
Speaker 3: I wanted that song to have, but I didn't know

423
00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:45,240
Speaker 3: where to go with it, and they very graciously agreed

424
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Speaker 3: to help me write that one song, and once I'd written,

425
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:51,200
Speaker 3: I knew it had to be the title of the album.

426
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:56,159
Speaker 3: But then it started me thinking about the Japanese are

427
00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:59,960
Speaker 3: of Kincigi, where if you break something, if something ceramic breaks,

428
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:01,080
Speaker 3: you fix it using gold.

429
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Speaker 2: I'm sure you've seen those.

430
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:08,919
Speaker 3: Like cracked gold cera mixed before, and that notion, that

431
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:13,920
Speaker 3: concept that something could break and then you could fix

432
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Speaker 3: it and make it more precious than it was before

433
00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:19,480
Speaker 3: you broke it. I think that's just every person I

434
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:23,000
Speaker 3: know over the age of twenty. It's the story is

435
00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:26,080
Speaker 3: that you go through things, and you make choices, and

436
00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:29,800
Speaker 3: things happen to you, and you can either let those

437
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:33,480
Speaker 3: weigh you down or you can fight through to a

438
00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:37,240
Speaker 3: point where those things actually make you, know, make you

439
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:40,080
Speaker 3: who you are, not necessarily harder or stronger, but just

440
00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:44,240
Speaker 3: who you are. And sometimes sometimes strong is about acceptance

441
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:45,000
Speaker 3: rather than fight.

442
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:49,960
Speaker 1: Sometimes strong is about acceptance rather than fight.

443
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:51,320
Speaker 2: This is what happens there.

444
00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:52,800
Speaker 3: I just said that, and I haven't said that before,

445
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:54,240
Speaker 3: and now I feel like I want to write it

446
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:55,439
Speaker 3: in my phone in case it's.

447
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:55,960
Speaker 1: Yet him and.

448
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:02,760
Speaker 2: Somebody wrote that down. Example of how how my songs start.

449
00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:05,520
Speaker 3: By the way, that's a that it's usually just chatting

450
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:08,720
Speaker 3: with friends or other musics or whatever, and someone something,

451
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:11,160
Speaker 3: either I say something or someone else says something three

452
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,119
Speaker 3: words and you're like, wait, but see, you've just shown

453
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:17,359
Speaker 3: me that you could be a lyricist because your eyes

454
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:18,960
Speaker 3: went up and left and you went wait.

455
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:19,680
Speaker 1: No.

456
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:22,760
Speaker 3: The way that you listen is like so it's like

457
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,040
Speaker 3: such a huge part of being able to make things.

458
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:28,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, I heard immediately that that resonates with me.

459
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:31,840
Speaker 1: That's that's pretty cool. That's that's going to be something

460
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,520
Speaker 1: mark my words. Oh yeah. There's so many songs I

461
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:37,720
Speaker 1: love on this I I particularly love slow it Down.

462
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:42,280
Speaker 1: I think as a little bit of a hopeless romantic

463
00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:43,119
Speaker 1: I connected with that.

464
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:46,920
Speaker 3: I was about to say, you can tell what kind

465
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:50,119
Speaker 3: of a person someone is by which almost I should start. Actually,

466
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:53,000
Speaker 3: I should do like a like a quizz thing online,

467
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:55,639
Speaker 3: you know, like one of those like personality quizzes. You

468
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:57,240
Speaker 3: listen to the songs and then you pick your favorite.

469
00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:58,959
Speaker 3: It tells you what kind of person you are, because

470
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:01,960
Speaker 3: if slow It Down your favorite song on the record.

471
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,800
Speaker 3: You're definitely hopeless romantic because it's the only like pure

472
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 3: love song. It's the only song with no tension in it.

473
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 1: Well, you must be too if you're writing that song.

474
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:11,600
Speaker 2: No, well that's true, but I also write the all

475
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:12,080
Speaker 2: the other ones.

476
00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:14,680
Speaker 1: So all right, right, right, right, true, fair enough, but.

477
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:18,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely no, definitively from from when I was a kid,

478
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:24,800
Speaker 3: you know, any sort of really romantic kind of films, novels, poems,

479
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:30,560
Speaker 3: I've always definitely kind of gravitated towards that, And yeah,

480
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 3: slow It Down is the only.

481
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:35,680
Speaker 1: Like put it on a song for everybody listening, put

482
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,399
Speaker 1: it on for your partner. You will win Brownie points

483
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:40,240
Speaker 1: for the next six months.

484
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,119
Speaker 3: I was at a show the other day and I

485
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:45,320
Speaker 3: do a thing in the show where I say a

486
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:47,560
Speaker 3: quote from a film and try to get people to

487
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:48,720
Speaker 3: guess what film it's from.

488
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:50,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, do you want to do it?

489
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:55,159
Speaker 1: Oh my god, oh god, okay, fine, fine, fine, do

490
00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 1: not judge me if I don't know, help my friend

491
00:24:58,040 --> 00:24:59,680
Speaker 1: in the corner, and I.

492
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 2: Felt you can have Okay.

493
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,160
Speaker 3: When I'm about to play that song, I get someone

494
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 3: from the audience to tell me what movie the following

495
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:10,720
Speaker 3: quotes from life moves pretty fast.

496
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 2: If you don't start to look around once in a while,

497
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:13,960
Speaker 2: you might miss it.

498
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,119
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I should know this. It sounds so

499
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:23,480
Speaker 1: familiar that life means pretty fast. If you give me

500
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:24,480
Speaker 1: the decade it's from.

501
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 2: It's from the eighties, from the it is.

502
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:28,200
Speaker 1: It's not the Breakfast Club.

503
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:31,440
Speaker 2: You're very close. It's got some of the same actors.

504
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,440
Speaker 1: It's I feel like it's that. Oh my god, it's

505
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:40,400
Speaker 1: not sixteen care Yes, did you look that up online? Actually,

506
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:45,720
Speaker 1: because I watched that recently, Oh my god, Okay, And

507
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 1: that I.

508
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:54,399
Speaker 3: Had all these scratchings from different like honestly, like a

509
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:56,800
Speaker 3: couple of lines from a birthday card I wrote someone,

510
00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:58,960
Speaker 3: a couple of lines from like a poem.

511
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:03,440
Speaker 2: I was sort of muddling with that. I never really

512
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:04,439
Speaker 2: did anything with.

513
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 3: All these different kind of like I had like a

514
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,159
Speaker 3: list of things that made it into the lyrics of those.

515
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 2: Songs.

516
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,919
Speaker 3: I think I'd written like share your baby names with me,

517
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 3: stand up family graves with me, and I'd written like

518
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:23,679
Speaker 3: that as a little couplet of like, you know, the

519
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 3: most romantic thing you can do and then the most

520
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,200
Speaker 3: kind of you know, the two things the two different

521
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:31,680
Speaker 3: ends of the spectrum of like what you would want

522
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:35,640
Speaker 3: a partner to be there for you with be there

523
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:36,480
Speaker 3: with you four.

524
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:41,679
Speaker 2: I've been sleeping on a bus and then I couldn't

525
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:43,119
Speaker 2: find the hook for the song. And then I.

526
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:48,480
Speaker 3: We watched Fresh Buder's Day Off, and life Moves pretty

527
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:53,399
Speaker 3: Fast was just those words. I was like, that's what

528
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 3: it is. So I just kind of borrowed those few words,

529
00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 3: and then life moves pretty fast with you, I think

530
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,640
Speaker 3: finally found someone to slow it down.

531
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:06,359
Speaker 1: I think you're making everybody listening to this episode swoon

532
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:08,120
Speaker 1: with these lyrics.

533
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 2: Well, it's just such a I like they're beautiful, they are.

534
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 2: I like songs.

535
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,119
Speaker 3: I like songs that I like feel really specific, and

536
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,560
Speaker 3: I think that's such a specific feeling. It's not like

537
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 3: I hope I find someone with whom I fall, you know,

538
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:25,679
Speaker 3: ahead of heels and love and feel fireworks or you know.

539
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,719
Speaker 3: I it's it's a very specific thing. I hope I'm

540
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 3: you know, I hope I find someone, and I hope

541
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:37,440
Speaker 3: I'm in a position to appreciate that when I meet

542
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:41,440
Speaker 3: someone with whom time feels just that bit slower because

543
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 3: life just racist past you two to realize that that

544
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 3: is like equally important, if not more than someone with

545
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 3: whom you know.

546
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 2: It feels like the fireworks all the time.

547
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, it's it's a stunning song. Every song

548
00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:01,879
Speaker 1: is is stunning for a different reason. I know you

549
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 1: have a video dropping very soon for one minute more.

550
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 1: Oh yes, which I got to say see early it

551
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 1: was beautiful. So this song is an interesting one. It's

552
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:16,440
Speaker 1: coming out of Valentine's say the video correct, And that

553
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 1: one is I referenced earlier about letting go a little bit, right,

554
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:21,440
Speaker 1: So talk to me about that that one.

555
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:24,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's interesting because sometimes you start writing a song

556
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,879
Speaker 3: about one thing and then it sort of feels like

557
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 3: it starts to be about something else, but you kind

558
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:35,640
Speaker 3: of keep it a secret. And I think, yeah, it's

559
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 3: it's a sort of deeply romantic song on one level

560
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 3: about being very in love with someone and them not

561
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 3: being in a position or having the tools to love

562
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 3: you back how you need to be loved, and so

563
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 3: you both know on some level that you have to

564
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 3: say goodbye to it, and maybe you've already had the

565
00:28:56,080 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 3: conversation but you just haven't quite decided to say and

566
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 3: you're just you're dragging you're dragging your feet essentially because

567
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 3: because you know, there's been something wonderful about it. So

568
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 3: on the surface, it was about that. But then as

569
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 3: I started kind of toying with it more, I was

570
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 3: thinking about it from other perspectives, about how all the

571
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 3: different relationships in my life I think being quite transient

572
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 3: as an actor as well. Sometimes, you know, you work

573
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 3: with people very intently for months on end, and then

574
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 3: the months go by really quickly. And even being on

575
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 3: this tour right now, you know, we're almost finished with

576
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 3: the American leg of the tour, and I'm so grateful

577
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 3: that we have the Europe leg of the tour coming,

578
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 3: because if you told me that it was the very

579
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 3: last show tomorrow, then I would be just short because

580
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 3: it's felt such precious time and I just like, just

581
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 3: one more show, just one more moment together doing this

582
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 3: thing because it feels precious. And then I sort of

583
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 3: extrapolated it further to like, you know, honestly, I was thinking,

584
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 3: you know, my mum has been navigating cancer for a decade,

585
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 3: and she's like an extraordinary human being, but there are

586
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 3: times when we when we were kind of told that,

587
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 3: you know, some of the treatments she was having were

588
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 3: going to be difficult, and there was maybe some hard

589
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 3: conversations to have in advance of having those surgeries or

590
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 3: those treatments, and.

591
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 2: You know, I remember kind.

592
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 3: Of like wailing to the sky, just just please one,

593
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 3: you know, just one more day, one more year, one

594
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 3: more you know, and I think, you know, this is

595
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 3: when I started to realize that those kind of songs

596
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 3: will mean something different to every person who kind of

597
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 3: listens to it. And you ask me what I hope

598
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:05,800
Speaker 3: it is for the songs. I hope that no one

599
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 3: cares what they're about for me. I hope that they

600
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 3: start to have meaning for someone else. Doesn't have to

601
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 3: be important. Meaning could just be a nice moment of like,

602
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 3: oh my, you know, partner and I listened to Slow

603
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 3: it Down. We felt really cozy and that was really nice.

604
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 3: But it also could be like people come up to

605
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 3: IT shows and you realize they've been listening to a

606
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 3: song from your EP for years as they're kind of

607
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 3: like happy song or whatever it might be, and you know,

608
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:36,960
Speaker 3: it doesn't have to be on a Taylor Swift level.

609
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 3: It doesn't have to be millions of people in the

610
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 3: world doing it can be three hundred people. It could

611
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 3: be seven people, you know, And I'm very fortunate that

612
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 3: because I've done what I've done as an actor for

613
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 3: the last twenty years, that there are people who will

614
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 3: show up for me and people support me, and then

615
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:55,720
Speaker 3: hopefully when they do that, they're just rewarding it for them.

616
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 1: Well, they're also showing up for you because you put

617
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 1: out material resonates if you put out garbage. They want

618
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 1: to be shown, you know, to be a fair.

619
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 3: So that's actually the best answer to that question, which

620
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 3: I am going to steal and use in other interviews,

621
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 3: But like my hope is that it resonates is a

622
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 3: really good word, is that it resonates with people and

623
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 3: just they keep a piece of it with them as well.

624
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 1: You know, Ben, I have to say, it's hard to

625
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 1: imagine you at a point of your life where you

626
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 1: weren't this open and just kind of vulnerable, because I

627
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 1: know I was.

628
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 3: With my you know, I raised by you know, my

629
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 3: extraordinary um to talk about is it a psychotherapist, Yeah,

630
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 3: my dad's a psychiatrist. I was was very open with them.

631
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 1: But I'm sure when you hit the spotlight and you

632
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 1: got really big in Hollywood as an actor and suddenly

633
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 1: this exposure happened where everybody wants to know something about

634
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 1: you and is interested in your life and the spotlight

635
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 1: is on you. I imagine that was a bit weird

636
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 1: at first.

637
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 3: That was weird, but I think it also started, if

638
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 3: i'm really also, I think it started before that as well.

639
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 3: And like in school, I didn't really have a lot

640
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 3: of friends at school, and I didn't really enjoy school

641
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:08,960
Speaker 3: very much, and I felt like if you shared things

642
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 3: and were open in that kind of environment, it was

643
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 3: it wasn't something that was valued, and it was certainly

644
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 3: you know, it's just like can be weaponized. And so

645
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 3: I think I was very open with my family and

646
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 3: with my friends that I was really close to, and

647
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 3: I've always been very open and vulnerable with them. But

648
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 3: I think I kind of took the that sort of

649
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 3: like school life into when I first started doing films

650
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:39,560
Speaker 3: and stuff, and you know, I grew up in the

651
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 3: UK and the tabloid press there is like pretty can

652
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 3: be pretty acute, and and you know, they started asking questions.

653
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 3: In the first few interviews I ever had, I thought,

654
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 3: what are you're asking me this for?

655
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 1: Like what would be an example of that question? I

656
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 1: don't know, just like just intrusive.

657
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, just just like started with questions about maybe, you know, yeah,

658
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:02,080
Speaker 3: what your parents do for a living, or asking about

659
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:05,240
Speaker 3: who you're dating or how long you've been together or

660
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:07,479
Speaker 3: whatever those things are. And it was just like it

661
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 3: just felt like crazy intrusive to ask that stuff before

662
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:11,799
Speaker 3: you ask about.

663
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 2: The film you've just made or something. And it just

664
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:15,040
Speaker 2: it wasn't you know.

665
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:17,360
Speaker 3: Of course, I realized it can be far worse than that,

666
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:21,920
Speaker 3: you know, I know it can be devastating, but it

667
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:24,480
Speaker 3: just it just it just shored up the walls of

668
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:27,399
Speaker 3: privacy and thought a lot of the actors I really

669
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 3: admire don't really you don't really know much about them.

670
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 3: There's an element of mystery to them. And I just

671
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:34,520
Speaker 3: sort of made this decision that, like, I guess I

672
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:37,839
Speaker 3: just won't necessarily share that much. But I realized this

673
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:40,720
Speaker 3: is like, this is now completely on my terms.

674
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 1: Yes, and you have the power.

675
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 3: This is the stuff that I am choosing to share,

676
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:49,520
Speaker 3: and you can choose to read it however you want

677
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:51,719
Speaker 3: or make it about you or whatever whatever it is.

678
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 3: But I'm still not you know, I'm still not necessarily

679
00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 3: sharing like details of how how how I live my

680
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:06,319
Speaker 3: life when I'm not working or making something right. But

681
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:08,839
Speaker 3: I do feel now that there is nothing. I used

682
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 3: to be anxious that people might ask me certain things

683
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 3: or whatever, and now I'm not afraid of any question.

684
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:18,440
Speaker 3: And actually doing music, releasing music, playing music for people

685
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 3: in particular, was one of the really big catalysts for

686
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:26,720
Speaker 3: feeling that way and letting go after you know, almost

687
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 3: forty years of that kind of fear of fear of judgment,

688
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 3: and it's it's and it's it's made its way into

689
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:34,960
Speaker 3: my acting too, Like going back on sets and things,

690
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:38,799
Speaker 3: I feel less afraid of whether people will.

691
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:44,279
Speaker 2: Accept a certain character or what if they don't, you know,

692
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:45,879
Speaker 2: like the show, or you.

693
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:47,759
Speaker 3: Know, just wrestling with those things. And I think because

694
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,319
Speaker 3: some of it has been useful and motivating, some of

695
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:57,279
Speaker 3: that self critical thinking has been motivating, but I think

696
00:35:57,480 --> 00:35:59,239
Speaker 3: I think in the end, understanding that it's been more

697
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 3: detrimental than than than than motivating was an important thing too.

698
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:06,839
Speaker 2: For me to get to.

699
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 1: Blown away by what you've done musically. I've got to

700
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:19,080
Speaker 1: ask you an acting question on behalf of all the fans.

701
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:20,920
Speaker 1: When I announced you as my guest, I got a

702
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 1: lot of people writing in about one particular thing I

703
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 1: wonder if you know what I'm going to.

704
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 3: Ask you, well, it's it's it's one of three things.

705
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:35,480
Speaker 2: It's either.

706
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 3: Will there be a third season of Shadow and Bone

707
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:42,319
Speaker 3: because I think the people who love fantasy stuff really

708
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:43,240
Speaker 3: love fantasy stuff.

709
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 2: I often get.

710
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:50,320
Speaker 3: Is there would there be another life for the Billy

711
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:53,959
Speaker 3: Russo character that I played on The Punisher Marvel Show,

712
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 3: because John Bunta, who played the Punisher and that is

713
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 3: playing that character again on the Dad Devil Show. And

714
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 3: that's definitely one of the characters that I've that I

715
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:08,359
Speaker 3: loved playing the most. And really it's just interesting that

716
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:13,880
Speaker 3: different kinds of people obviously respond to Marvel and the

717
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 3: Punisher has different fans from Narnia.

718
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 2: You know, it's no surprise.

719
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 3: But and then the third one is that the third

720
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:24,840
Speaker 3: thing it's likely to be about, especially if it was

721
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 3: on the internet, is like.

722
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 2: Harry Potter fan casting.

723
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 1: You nailed it. It's the third one third one third one, which.

724
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:36,960
Speaker 3: Is it's wild to me because the amount of Harry

725
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 3: Potter books or or that I've been asked to sign

726
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 3: or gryffind or ties that I've been given, and every

727
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:45,799
Speaker 3: time I kind of feel the need to.

728
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:47,440
Speaker 2: Say you know I'm not in this.

729
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:50,280
Speaker 3: I did an interview I did like a morning show

730
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:52,640
Speaker 3: in LA a few months ago for the music and

731
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 3: we were about to play a song. She was like,

732
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:57,719
Speaker 3: loved you and Harry Potter. Sorry, gonna stop you. That

733
00:37:58,520 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 3: wasn't in Harry Potter.

734
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:00,840
Speaker 2: Very clear.

735
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:05,839
Speaker 3: But I think it's a fan casting that's been going

736
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:07,840
Speaker 3: on for literally decades.

737
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:10,319
Speaker 1: It must feel good knowing that the fans want that

738
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:10,920
Speaker 1: to happen.

739
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 3: Well, I think I think it started off as something

740
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 3: that I've come to understand after because it's been around

741
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:18,799
Speaker 3: so many years, that they wanted to do a kind

742
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:24,319
Speaker 3: of Marauders prequel Terry pots And they had an idea

743
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:26,719
Speaker 3: of like three or four actors they wanted in their heads.

744
00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:29,760
Speaker 3: I think Andrew Garfield and Aaron Taylor Johnson and myself.

745
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:32,799
Speaker 3: They had the idea that that would that those would

746
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:35,439
Speaker 3: be the actors to play those characters young. But now

747
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:37,840
Speaker 3: we're all the same age that those characters were in

748
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 3: the original movies. So yeah, it's sort of twenty years

749
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 3: too late for their original for their original plan, but

750
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:47,920
Speaker 3: I know they're making a new TV show version of

751
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 3: the of those stories. So I mean, I've just always

752
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 3: been a fan of read the books and listen to

753
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 3: Stephen Fryer read them on tape sometimes so good to.

754
00:38:57,320 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 2: Help me go to sleep.

755
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:04,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean it's something that you know,

756
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:08,359
Speaker 3: if the opportunity arose. I think there are some really

757
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 3: wonderful characters in those in those stories, but you know

758
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:16,920
Speaker 3: they've also been told so beautifully already, you know, on film,

759
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:19,400
Speaker 3: on audiobook already.

760
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:20,919
Speaker 2: So you know, who knows.

761
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, you never know what can happen, You never know.

762
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:24,360
Speaker 2: Strange, not against it.

763
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:28,760
Speaker 3: I love I mostly read fantasy, yeah, if I'm reading

764
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:34,200
Speaker 3: for pleasure, not scripts and not kind of like you know,

765
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 3: some kind of like worthy adaptation. Yeah, I often read

766
00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:45,359
Speaker 3: fantasy as well. So I'm like, I'm just like a fan,

767
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:47,759
Speaker 3: which is sort of a good thing really because I

768
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:51,879
Speaker 3: think a lot of my support network online and at

769
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:54,279
Speaker 3: concerts and people are going to see my movies are

770
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:56,360
Speaker 3: also kind of like fantasy book readers.

771
00:39:56,440 --> 00:40:01,759
Speaker 1: So if you could develop any fantasy book into a project,

772
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:04,319
Speaker 1: a series of film, what would you what would you pick?

773
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 2: Oh? I I there was.

774
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:11,720
Speaker 3: Not necessarily for myself, but I remember reading I would

775
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 3: like to see a film of of this book called

776
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:20,600
Speaker 3: the Name of the Wind. Sir Patrick Rothfuss story, and

777
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 3: I just think it's a really really cool, well told

778
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:28,760
Speaker 3: story the first books, but like like a young young

779
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:32,120
Speaker 3: young man who finds himself in this kind of like

780
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:36,359
Speaker 3: he kind of works his way through very very very

781
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 3: tough times to find himself in a kind of alchemist's school.

782
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:44,799
Speaker 3: But it's it's a it's a it's a sort of

783
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:50,239
Speaker 3: a slightly harder edged version of one of those stories.

784
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:54,919
Speaker 3: And it flashes forward to that character as as a

785
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:58,240
Speaker 3: as a grown man who's like keeping his past a secret,

786
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:00,040
Speaker 3: and it just really well.

787
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 1: You, well, we'll add you in. Well yeah, like nice,

788
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 1: try saying I don't need to be in it.

789
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:05,759
Speaker 2: But no, I would just like to see it.

790
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:09,319
Speaker 3: Honestly, that character just sort of sits behind a bar

791
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 3: wistfully for the entire first book. So okay, yeah, no,

792
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:16,400
Speaker 3: but it's just that I would like to see I

793
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:17,920
Speaker 3: would like to see it for sure, let's.

794
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:19,719
Speaker 1: See if that happens. And to be fair, also the

795
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 1: shadow and Bone if there will be another season did

796
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 1: come up quite a bit as well, So I'm not

797
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:27,320
Speaker 1: surprised you're here. My characters dead, so stranger things have happened.

798
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:29,879
Speaker 1: It's true, stranger things have happened, man, and.

799
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:31,239
Speaker 2: It wouldn't be the first time I've come back from

800
00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:31,520
Speaker 2: the dead.

801
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 1: But we go, there, we go, Ben, I I could

802
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 1: talk to you for four more hours. I mean, what

803
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:37,719
Speaker 1: a pleasure this has been. But as we wrap up,

804
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:39,879
Speaker 1: the name of the show, it's called I've never said

805
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:40,360
Speaker 1: this before?

806
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:42,200
Speaker 2: Oh yes, I completely forgot about that.

807
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 1: Yeah part of it. Yes, yes, So I end every

808
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 1: episode with asking my guests that question of what is

809
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:51,279
Speaker 1: one thing you've never said before? And that was kind

810
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:53,840
Speaker 1: of born, you know from I work a lot of

811
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:55,719
Speaker 1: red carpets. I work a lot of junkets. You're no

812
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:59,360
Speaker 1: stranger to them. Three minutes, six minutes, if you're lucky,

813
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:02,319
Speaker 1: you get with somebody to have a conversation, and it's

814
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:05,800
Speaker 1: very hard to have a real conversation in that environments,

815
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:06,759
Speaker 1: mainly sound.

816
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:09,240
Speaker 2: That was the project, that was the kind of birth

817
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:09,600
Speaker 2: of that.

818
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:12,360
Speaker 1: Yeah. I saw people longing to want to talk about

819
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 1: more and not having time to do it. And it

820
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:16,239
Speaker 1: was just like a little look in their eyes where

821
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:18,239
Speaker 1: they would start telling a story and then get cut

822
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:20,279
Speaker 1: off and we have to go. And so I said,

823
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:22,239
Speaker 1: you know what, I want to show where people can

824
00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:24,760
Speaker 1: come on and we can talk for more than six minutes.

825
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:27,720
Speaker 1: But also in the conversation with that question and whatever

826
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:30,240
Speaker 1: that means to you, I'm wondering if there is something

827
00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 1: you've never said before that you want to say today.

828
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 3: Well, I was thinking about it a little bit over

829
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 3: the last few days, and we, as I kind of expected,

830
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 3: having listened to your show, we kind of almost touched

831
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:42,919
Speaker 3: on it.

832
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:43,799
Speaker 2: Already, which was.

833
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:49,440
Speaker 3: This idea of the sort of very self critical voice

834
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:52,239
Speaker 3: in your head, which can be extremely motivating, but it's

835
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:55,480
Speaker 3: also at the end of the day, I think quite

836
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 3: a poisonous. Quite poisonous can be quite a poisonous thing.

837
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:01,759
Speaker 3: And I've been kind of great for it through my

838
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 3: twenties in terms of fueling my ambition, but I think

839
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:11,480
Speaker 3: I've never really talked like publicly about feeling that that

840
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:15,920
Speaker 3: voice and that part of myself kind of started winning

841
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:18,960
Speaker 3: a little bit through my thirties, and instead of kind

842
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:22,719
Speaker 3: of becoming more confident with things and more free and

843
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:27,040
Speaker 3: not only as an actor or a creative person, but

844
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:30,279
Speaker 3: also just like in my life, I think it got

845
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:33,239
Speaker 3: a bit of a strangle hold on me, and sort

846
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 3: of that was something to kind of be negotiated, and

847
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 3: I think like trying to focus on the things that

848
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:43,279
Speaker 3: you are good at and the things that you are

849
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:47,000
Speaker 3: proud of yourself for becomes harder and harder, with a

850
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:50,000
Speaker 3: kind of a voice screaming at you in a way

851
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:52,520
Speaker 3: that if a stranger talked to you in that way,

852
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:55,759
Speaker 3: either no longer speak to them, more punched them in

853
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:56,160
Speaker 3: the face.

854
00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:57,160
Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean?

855
00:43:57,239 --> 00:44:00,440
Speaker 3: And I think that I listened to a few things,

856
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 3: interviews with other people and read different books about things,

857
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:07,760
Speaker 3: but the idea of like talking to yourself as gently

858
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:10,319
Speaker 3: as you would as gently as you would advise your

859
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:12,959
Speaker 3: own daughter or your own best friend. And I think

860
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:17,759
Speaker 3: realizing that one of the things I might not necessarily

861
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:21,200
Speaker 3: be my own favorite actor, or I might not be

862
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 3: you know, I'm not even the best singer in my

863
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:28,480
Speaker 3: own band. Those things are just you can accept some

864
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:30,880
Speaker 3: of those things as true without being really critical of yourself.

865
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:34,280
Speaker 3: But I think I am really good at surrounding myself

866
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:43,320
Speaker 3: with kind, talented, loving, you know, human beings and bringing

867
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:45,279
Speaker 3: people together in that kind of a way as well.

868
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:48,040
Speaker 3: I think is something that I have been really proud of,

869
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:51,400
Speaker 3: And like being a good friend to people is something

870
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:57,719
Speaker 3: that I realized. I think I am and so practicing

871
00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:01,000
Speaker 3: like being a better friend to myself is the thing.

872
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:02,560
Speaker 2: Is my is my thing.

873
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:04,920
Speaker 3: I haven't said out loud before that I that I

874
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:07,600
Speaker 3: like is something that I have to like practice and

875
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:11,279
Speaker 3: very very recently, as in less you know, as in

876
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:16,759
Speaker 3: a month ish ago, I've started like if I'm feeling like,

877
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:19,399
Speaker 3: you know, because taking on you know, I think with

878
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:22,440
Speaker 3: like the fires in La which were very close to

879
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:25,600
Speaker 3: my home, and like mounting this entire tour and you know,

880
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:29,239
Speaker 3: I know everyone is always juggling a billion things, but

881
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:31,239
Speaker 3: it started making me feel like very panicky in a

882
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:33,640
Speaker 3: moment where I should have been very excited about starting

883
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:41,200
Speaker 3: a tours. And I started, at the suggestion of someone

884
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:46,040
Speaker 3: that I love, so you know, suggested writing to yourself

885
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 3: like as a like, if you feel panicky, start you know,

886
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 3: right to yourself, as if you were your own best friend,

887
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 3: what would you say to yourself in that moment? And

888
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:57,680
Speaker 3: I was, you know, part of me bulks at things

889
00:45:57,680 --> 00:45:59,800
Speaker 3: like that. I think being raised by therapists and stuff

890
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:02,759
Speaker 3: any kind of like tool always feels like a bit

891
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:05,520
Speaker 3: icky and a bit like because I feel like if

892
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:08,520
Speaker 3: I start to address things that I feel are a

893
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:11,799
Speaker 3: problem for me, then then there's something wrong with me,

894
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:14,280
Speaker 3: and then I have to accept that, you know whatever.

895
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:17,920
Speaker 3: But actually I've been finding very very useful.

896
00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:21,200
Speaker 1: But well it helps that self talk, right, Like you

897
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:24,280
Speaker 1: were very critical of yourself. Your self talk wasn't great.

898
00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:27,640
Speaker 1: So doing that forces you to flip the script, literally

899
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:29,920
Speaker 1: flip the script and address yourself in a way that

900
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:31,759
Speaker 1: you would speak to anybody else.

901
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:35,239
Speaker 3: Goes back to that the blank page. And I think

902
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 3: that it can be that blank page. You can put

903
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:39,480
Speaker 3: on that blank page whatever you choose to put on it.

904
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:43,680
Speaker 3: And the thing that I haven't like said probably before

905
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:47,719
Speaker 3: it is just like just how terrible I can I

906
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:52,040
Speaker 3: have the capacity to be to myself, but like learning

907
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:56,440
Speaker 3: to negotiate that and like very much like it's very

908
00:46:56,480 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 3: much like a present thing.

909
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:00,520
Speaker 1: That I'm doing, but a working progress.

910
00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:01,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I.

911
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:03,920
Speaker 3: Think I think a lot of people, a lot of

912
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:06,839
Speaker 3: people are in the same are in that same boat.

913
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:10,640
Speaker 3: So you know, it might be kind of interesting to

914
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:14,080
Speaker 3: hear from someone who you know, you might make certain

915
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:19,640
Speaker 3: you might make certain presumptions about what their life might

916
00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:23,840
Speaker 3: be like, but you never quite know how the cogs

917
00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:24,879
Speaker 3: in someone's head work.

918
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:28,279
Speaker 1: Hmm, that's certainly true. I really appreciate you sharing that.

919
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:29,759
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people, to your point, look

920
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:35,000
Speaker 1: at somebody and perhaps think they seemingly float through life

921
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:39,319
Speaker 1: with no worries or stress or you know, or problems

922
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:42,759
Speaker 1: with themselves, and that's just not true. And I think

923
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:46,600
Speaker 1: that's a really important point to make, especially as the

924
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:49,239
Speaker 1: social media side of the world we live in only

925
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:51,680
Speaker 1: gets bigger and bigger and bigger, and people portray one

926
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:54,000
Speaker 1: thing online, but you don't know what the truth is

927
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:57,160
Speaker 1: behind that. And I think for you to say, like listen, man,

928
00:47:57,200 --> 00:47:59,799
Speaker 1: sometimes I really am terrible to myself and I'm working

929
00:47:59,880 --> 00:48:01,359
Speaker 1: on it, and I'm not fully there yet.

930
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:02,279
Speaker 2: Well any part of.

931
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:05,360
Speaker 3: Certainly an actor, and I think it is just that

932
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:08,200
Speaker 3: people see you see the polished and edited version in

933
00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:12,680
Speaker 3: a movie, and then you see on stage, you see

934
00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:15,200
Speaker 3: the part that you've been literally building up to all

935
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:19,160
Speaker 3: day and doing sound checks and warm ups and rehearsing

936
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:24,000
Speaker 3: and and then even just like emotional preparation through the

937
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:26,440
Speaker 3: day of like okay, it's like, you know, you've got

938
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:27,959
Speaker 3: to get through the nerves, and you've got to build

939
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:29,920
Speaker 3: up to the thing, and you've got to try to

940
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 3: be your most confident and relaxed and you know that's

941
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:39,480
Speaker 3: then that's the version that you're presented with. And just

942
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:42,600
Speaker 3: remembering that we're all kind of we're all made it

943
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:44,360
Speaker 3: the same stuff and we all kind of work in

944
00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:49,000
Speaker 3: similar ways. I think is like important to acknowledge, and

945
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:51,440
Speaker 3: obviously people do it all the time, but that's that

946
00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:52,560
Speaker 3: was one of my small ones.

947
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:55,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I couldn't agree more. Thank you for sharing that.

948
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:57,480
Speaker 1: I know. I got to get you out of here.

949
00:48:57,520 --> 00:48:59,319
Speaker 1: You're a rock star on tour, you have a lot

950
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:01,160
Speaker 1: going on, so I'm going to make this really quick.

951
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:05,080
Speaker 1: My last, last, last question. Do you feel like, with

952
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:07,920
Speaker 1: that all being said, you are worthy?

953
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:09,840
Speaker 2: I suppose.

954
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:13,279
Speaker 3: I'm not quite sure what that means, worthy of what.

955
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:15,719
Speaker 1: I'm worthy of being here, worthy of the success you've had,

956
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 1: worthy of what you've built.

957
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:24,200
Speaker 3: I I mean, I suppose if this feels like a

958
00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:28,360
Speaker 3: really like honest kind of conversation, I suppose I suppose

959
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:33,200
Speaker 3: if I if I'm being honest, not really, because there

960
00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:35,080
Speaker 3: are so many people in the world doing so many things.

961
00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:37,799
Speaker 3: We were just discussing today about all these visiting all

962
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:40,400
Speaker 3: these different cities, and we go there for half a

963
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:42,560
Speaker 3: day or a day, and you might go and get

964
00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:45,920
Speaker 3: a coffee from somewhere and someone is like really nice

965
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:48,200
Speaker 3: or kind to you in a particular coffee shop, and

966
00:49:48,239 --> 00:49:51,520
Speaker 3: you're like, oh, and they're they're they're here all the time,

967
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:54,160
Speaker 3: being this way, and we're just sort of like passing through.

968
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:57,640
Speaker 3: I actually called my you know, setting up like a

969
00:49:57,680 --> 00:50:00,520
Speaker 3: production company. I called it sounder. I don't know if

970
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:01,799
Speaker 3: you've know that familiar with.

971
00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:02,840
Speaker 2: That word, but it was.

972
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:05,920
Speaker 3: I think it's like, was a relatively new word and dictionary,

973
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:08,080
Speaker 3: meaning that feeling that you get when you pass by

974
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:13,080
Speaker 3: strangers that their life is just as full and dense

975
00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:15,640
Speaker 3: and intricate as yours. They have their dreams, they have

976
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:19,879
Speaker 3: their fears, they have their the things that they love

977
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:21,880
Speaker 3: about themselves, the things that they hate about themselves, that

978
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:25,400
Speaker 3: everyone's life is just as full and rich and meaningful

979
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:28,600
Speaker 3: as anyone else's. And I think that I have reached

980
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:34,440
Speaker 3: a place where I'm really like grateful and really yeah, grateful,

981
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:36,480
Speaker 3: I think is a really good word. That probably is

982
00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:39,600
Speaker 3: that I'm really grateful for like the kind of life

983
00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:41,120
Speaker 3: that I have and to be able to do things

984
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:44,480
Speaker 3: that I really am passionate about and love to do

985
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:50,320
Speaker 3: most of the time. And that makes me feel incredibly lucky.

986
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:53,560
Speaker 3: But I'm also very aware of how many people I

987
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:56,160
Speaker 3: know that are just as talented, if not more talented,

988
00:50:56,360 --> 00:51:00,480
Speaker 3: and just as worthy of having that kind of experience

989
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:03,359
Speaker 3: and don't get to have it as often or at all,

990
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:06,759
Speaker 3: or don't have the opportunity to have it, And so

991
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:09,960
Speaker 3: it's very difficult for me to say like I, to

992
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:14,640
Speaker 3: say I deserve it in any way feels it doesn't

993
00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:18,080
Speaker 3: feel quite doesn't sit quite quite right with me. But equally,

994
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:20,640
Speaker 3: I don't feel like I. Equally I don't feel like

995
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:24,480
Speaker 3: I don't because I believe that I am someone who

996
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:27,040
Speaker 3: works hard, someone who's worked hard to be better at

997
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:29,480
Speaker 3: the things that they do, someone who has some innate

998
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:36,800
Speaker 3: skill sets, and first and foremost like someone who believes

999
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:41,520
Speaker 3: themselves to be a good man. And therefore therefore I

1000
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:47,240
Speaker 3: am or I am, and I'm very grateful and happy

1001
00:51:47,239 --> 00:51:51,040
Speaker 3: about it. But worthy, I don't know.

1002
00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:54,399
Speaker 1: It's an interesting word, but I think you answer that beautifully,

1003
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:56,440
Speaker 1: and for what it's worth, I think you are very worthy.

1004
00:51:57,719 --> 00:52:00,160
Speaker 1: I so enjoy this conversation, Ben. Like I said, your

1005
00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:03,719
Speaker 1: music is sensational. I hope everybody goes and listens to

1006
00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:06,000
Speaker 1: your album on repeat. Tell everybody one more time. The

1007
00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:07,600
Speaker 1: name how to listen all of it.

1008
00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:09,680
Speaker 3: The album is called Where the Light Gets In and

1009
00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:11,960
Speaker 3: you can find it on the Spotify, Apple Music, anyway

1010
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:14,280
Speaker 3: that you listen to music.

1011
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:16,320
Speaker 2: I appreciate you checking out.

1012
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:18,920
Speaker 1: Keep making more and we're ready for it. Thank you,

1013
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:22,520
Speaker 1: my friend, thank you. I've Never Said This Before is

1014
00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:27,400
Speaker 1: hosted by me, Tommy Dedario. This podcast is executive produced

1015
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:31,040
Speaker 1: by Andrew Puglisi at iHeartRadio and by me Tommy, with

1016
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:35,160
Speaker 1: editing by Joshua Colaudney. I've Never Said This Before is

1017
00:52:35,239 --> 00:52:38,759
Speaker 1: part of the Elvis Duran podcast Network on iHeart Podcasts.

1018
00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:42,560
Speaker 1: For more, rate review and subscribe to our show and

1019
00:52:42,600 --> 00:52:46,040
Speaker 1: if you liked this episode, tell your friends. Until next time,

1020
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:47,280
Speaker 1: I'm Tommy Dederio.