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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,

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Speaker 3: We need your help to build the future of independent

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Speaker 3: news media, and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints

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Speaker 3: dot Com. Turning now here to Washington, as we may

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Speaker 3: have to remind you, the government is still shut down.

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Speaker 1: Nobody really seems to care. But one of the underrated.

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Speaker 3: Parts of that government shutdown is that the House is

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Speaker 3: not swearing in a new member, and apparently that is

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Speaker 3: part of a scheme to prevent her from voting for

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Speaker 3: a release of the Epstein files. The Speaker, Mike Johnson,

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Speaker 3: was pressed on this on Meet the Press, Let's Take

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Speaker 3: a Listen.

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Speaker 4: Representative Grihalva, who won a special election last week in Arizona,

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Speaker 4: she's yet to be sworn in. I know you're not

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Speaker 4: in session, but you've sworn in Republicans out of session.

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Speaker 1: Why not her? Does it have anything to do with

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Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein. Well, the House is.

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Speaker 4: Not on the floor doing business this week, but we

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Speaker 4: will do it immediately early next week, as soon as

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Speaker 4: everyone returns to town. We have to have everybody here

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Speaker 4: and we'll swear her in. I congratulate her on her whin.

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Speaker 4: She's replacing her father who had a long history here,

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Speaker 4: and she'll be a productive member of Congress.

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Speaker 1: We look forward to that.

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Speaker 3: We'll look forward to her as a member of Congress,

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Speaker 3: but just not immediately because of reasons exactly.

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Speaker 1: It definitely doesn't have anything to do with Epstein.

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Speaker 5: I don't know if that question is gonna fly under

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Speaker 5: the new Berrier regime.

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Speaker 1: A good point. See this is the issue. That's great.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we can all look forward to the new CBS

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Speaker 3: mosad especial over on sixty minutes.

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Speaker 1: It's going to be great.

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Speaker 3: I's going to put this up here on the screen.

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Speaker 3: Shall we Some major update from the Supreme Court at

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Speaker 3: the very least, who rejected Glaine Maxwell's appeal to overturn

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Speaker 3: her conviction.

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Speaker 1: The conviction. She's got to remember.

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Speaker 3: The way that Gallaane was fighting this in court is

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Speaker 3: that because Epstein got his sweetheart deal in two thousand

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Speaker 3: and seven, part of the non prosecution agreement was that

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Speaker 3: the government will never prosecute you or any of your

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Speaker 3: co conspirators. So Glaine argued in court that the government

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Speaker 3: took back its word. The only reason that any of

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Speaker 3: us even really know anything about the whole Epstein case

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Speaker 3: is because that agreement was ruled invalid because they did

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Speaker 3: not notify the victims of the agreement all. That's all

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Speaker 3: they had to do, and they never did it. So

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Speaker 3: a judge struck that down in twenty eighteen. That's part

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Speaker 3: of the reason that we know anything really about the case,

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Speaker 3: and a lot of stuff actually came out into the public.

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Speaker 3: So that has been the heart of Glaine's legal strategy

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Speaker 3: to get out of this.

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Speaker 1: Except for except.

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Speaker 3: For the new play for a pardon, for a pardon

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Speaker 3: from Donald Trump, who was asked about this actually in

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Speaker 3: the Oval office yesterday.

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Speaker 1: Let's go ahead and play a D four. Let's take

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Speaker 1: a listen.

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Speaker 6: That means our only chance of getting a prison for

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Speaker 6: huge is that something? Who are we talking about Uh,

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Speaker 6: you know, I haven't heard the name in so long.

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Speaker 6: I can say this that i'd have to take a

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Speaker 6: look at it. I would have to take a look.

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Speaker 6: Did they reject that?

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Speaker 7: What happened?

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Speaker 6: I say, well, I'll take a look at it. I'll

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Speaker 6: speak to I will speak to the DJ. I have

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Speaker 6: a lot of people have asked me for pardons. I

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Speaker 6: call him puff Daddy his asp for a pardon. Yeah,

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Speaker 6: I mean, I'm gonna have to take a look at it,

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Speaker 6: and I have to ask DJ. I didn't know they

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Speaker 6: rejected it. I didn't know she was even asking for it.

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Speaker 1: Frankly, I didn't know any I'm gonna have to ask.

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Speaker 5: I haven't I haven't about name, And why don't you

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Speaker 5: just rule it out?

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Speaker 1: I don't rule it out. It's so weird because like

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Speaker 1: the old day.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you know why, because he's afraid of what

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Speaker 2: she might say if he's not at least playing ball

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Speaker 2: with her.

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Speaker 5: I mean, that's the reason.

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Speaker 2: Clearly she got moved to this like club fed situation,

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Speaker 2: and suddenly the least the Wall Street Journal about the

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Speaker 2: birthday book and whatever else, Suddenly those things stopped. So

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Speaker 2: he feels that he needs to at least play ball,

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Speaker 2: And I would not be shocked at all if she

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Speaker 2: ends up getting her pardon. You know, maybe it's at

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Speaker 2: the end of this Trump administration, when he's done and

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Speaker 2: all of a sudden done or whatever. But I would

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Speaker 2: not be shocked at all.

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Speaker 3: If I would be shocked if she got pardoned, I'll

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Speaker 3: be honest, that would actually be genuinely shocking. I think

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Speaker 3: probably what would happen is that he'll string it along

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Speaker 3: for the entire time to kind of keep her at

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Speaker 3: bay and keep the hope alive, and then maybe till

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Speaker 3: the end.

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Speaker 1: But look, you're not wrong. I mean, who the hell knows.

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Speaker 3: The question is still and this is always the issue,

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Speaker 3: and this is where people who are like this is

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Speaker 3: to distract from the Epstein files. I don't think there

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Speaker 3: are one hundred percent right, but they're not conceptually wrong

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Speaker 3: in that the longer this plays out, and the more

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Speaker 3: there is a little bit of a drip, drip, drip,

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Speaker 3: it can satisfy some of the curiosity. They just want

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Speaker 3: it to go away. That's what they want more than anything.

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Speaker 3: And what we all have to bank on is that

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Speaker 3: there is at least some constituency that will main there

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Speaker 3: to push on it right now. With some of that's Democrats,

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Speaker 3: a lot of it is also Thomas Massey. There's some

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Speaker 3: people at least in the Senate and others who have

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Speaker 3: pushed this forward, but without a sustained amount of pressure,

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Speaker 3: we just can't have that. That's part of the reason

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Speaker 3: why it's so important to force this vote, because that

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Speaker 3: would force the government to not only have to comply

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Speaker 3: sometime in the future, but you can follow up on

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Speaker 3: that if the Democrats take Congress after the midterms, they

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Speaker 3: can subpoena, they can continue up to go after and

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Speaker 3: this is this is the great folly in not just

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Speaker 3: releasing the dam files in the first place. And so

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Speaker 3: let's go ahead, for example, put D three up on

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Speaker 3: the screen, and this kind of shows the fear is this

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Speaker 3: new representative who won the special election. She says, I

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Speaker 3: can't see another reason. It doesn't change the majority. Democrats

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Speaker 3: are still in the minority. That seems to be the

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Speaker 3: only outstanding issue I can see. It feels a little personal,

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Speaker 3: specifically talking here about the Epstein vote. And one of

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Speaker 3: the things actually that's kind of counterintuitive is that because

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Speaker 3: there's a government shutdown, if she were sworn in, and

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Speaker 3: that's the only thing that would happen, then it would

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Speaker 3: be a huge story. And so they need to make

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Speaker 3: sure that it's just put at bay as long as possible. Recall,

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Speaker 3: they took an entire month off and ended House early,

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Speaker 3: specifically with no votes, just to delay this vote with

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Speaker 3: the with the hope, oh, nothing will come out. You know,

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Speaker 3: we got the birthday book, great, I guess, I mean,

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Speaker 3: you know, nothing particularly revelatory. There's still a lot more

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Speaker 3: that needs to come out from it. But that's my

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Speaker 3: fear is that the longer that this goes on, there's

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Speaker 3: no sustained political pressure, and they just wanted to die out.

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Speaker 3: That's all the White House wants for this die And

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Speaker 3: you know, by and large, most people have complied Epstein itself.

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Speaker 3: You know, it's not trending anymore. It's not like a

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Speaker 3: number one thing. I think most people are still aware.

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Speaker 3: But what you know, it's number four.

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Speaker 1: On our list. Obviously, Venezuela is very important, right, Hey.

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Speaker 5: These aren't just sub junction, Yeah, these are real.

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Speaker 1: This is a real shit.

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Speaker 3: We actually might overthrow a government in Venezuela and so

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Speaker 3: in that is what they are hoping for more than

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Speaker 3: anything on this story, and Yeah.

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Speaker 2: It's just that time goes by and people move on,

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Speaker 2: and nothing significant enough to put it right back in

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Speaker 2: the news cycle comes out. That's what they're banking on

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Speaker 2: and praying for. And you know the fact that Mike

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Speaker 2: Johnson is going to such great links to keep from

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Speaker 2: seating this one member of Congress when you know, the

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Speaker 2: House already passed their budget. Ye, So you know, it's

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Speaker 2: not like there's a close margin on these other things.

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Speaker 2: The House Republicans that she points out, they still have

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Speaker 2: the majority whether she's there or not. So the only

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Speaker 2: thing that it really is consequential for is this one

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Speaker 2: very close vote with regard to the Epstein files. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: I mean, and this isn't the first time that Mike

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Speaker 2: Johnson has moved haaving and earth to keep this vote

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Speaker 2: on the release from going forward.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know it's also sad.

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Speaker 3: It's a sad commentary on the number of Republicans who

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Speaker 3: just go along. There's to my eye, there's like two

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Speaker 3: Marjorie Taylor Green and mass mass That's it. Where's everybody

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Speaker 3: else is basically playing ball on this. I do want

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Speaker 3: to give a shout out to Marjorie. She had more

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Speaker 3: recent tweet about insurance.

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Speaker 2: I saw that, you know, and you know, did you

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Speaker 2: Trump made some comments about maybe he was gonna make

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Speaker 2: would deal with Democrats on health care, So it may

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Speaker 2: actually end up being Trump that blinks on the healthcare thing.

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Speaker 2: With regard to the shutdown, I mean, it's not certainly

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Speaker 2: politicizing it all.

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Speaker 3: Does it take a genius to figure out the doubling

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Speaker 3: of insurance premiums will be politically Republicans?

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Speaker 5: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, what it's like, that's it's just so funny because

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Speaker 3: it's the same thing that happened to Obama.

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Speaker 1: What screwed Obama on Obamacare was the.

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Speaker 3: Whole if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor,

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Speaker 3: and didn't happen everybody. A lot of people's insurance premiums

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Speaker 3: went sky high right around the time of the midterm

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Speaker 3: elections and immediately afterwards, which is what screwed him. If

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Speaker 3: he had a better opponent, I think he would have

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Speaker 3: lost twenty twelve. He could have lost easily on that alone.

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Speaker 3: If you increase price directly attributable to legislation, you are

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Speaker 3: an idiot politically. So yeah, in some ways, the Democrats

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Speaker 3: are almost trying to do them a favor. But maybe

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Speaker 3: they have read them too well to know that they

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Speaker 3: would never buckle on this, and so they'll just let

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Speaker 3: it roll. But it seems that Trump himself may actually

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Speaker 3: blink on the health insurance premium thing, which by the way,

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Speaker 3: would be a good thing for the two Obamacare subscribers here.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Well, and we didn't get to this yesterday, but just

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Speaker 2: worth pointing out. The analysis from Kaiser Family Foundation says

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Speaker 2: that more than three and four ACA marketplace and rolies

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Speaker 2: live in states won by Trump. Oh, of course, most

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Speaker 2: of the people who would who were going to get

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Speaker 2: screwed when premiums go up are actually you know in

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Speaker 2: Trump states, Well.

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Speaker 3: People who are on Obamacare where the prototypical example it's

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Speaker 3: either the small business owner without a ton of staff,

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Speaker 3: or it's people who will working jobs that don't offer healthcare.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And that's like the that's exactly what the Trump

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Speaker 3: coalition was was in twenty twenty four. Yeah, that's what

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Speaker 3: Steve Bannon always talked about with medicaid. If you look

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Speaker 3: at the Medicaid recipients, like, who do you think these

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Speaker 3: people are? If people over one hundred thousand dollars year

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Speaker 3: of voting Democrat, they're going to employer post sponsored health insurance.

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Speaker 3: They don't give a shit about Obamacare. It's people at

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Speaker 3: the low or end of the spectrum. Those are the

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Speaker 3: ones who get screwed. Same on Medicaid. So this is

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Speaker 3: this look, I mean, we could go on forever. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: Republican Party and their own idiocy around the issue of healthcare.

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Speaker 1: But yes, you are exactly correct.

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Speaker 3: About this because you can see how they both recognize

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Speaker 3: it's a political issue, but they don't want to buckle

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Speaker 3: and so they may walk themselves into a political disaster

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Speaker 3: come the midterms.

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Speaker 1: Or maybe they just don't care.

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Speaker 3: I've never been able to figure these people out. I

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Speaker 3: don't know what possible reason they think they're going to

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Speaker 3: win reelection.

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Speaker 1: Like for what for a tax cut? No Epstein? Okay,

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Speaker 1: oh you know, we'll see. Should we get to the

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Speaker 1: National Guard.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, let's talk about this.

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Speaker 2: So Tim Dillon had a bit on Trump using American

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Speaker 2: cities as training grounds for the troops.

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Speaker 5: With's go and take a listen to that.

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Speaker 1: We don't need the Marines in Chicago.

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Speaker 7: I agree, the Democratic Party has done a terrible job

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Speaker 7: with public safety. But the idea that we're going to

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Speaker 7: have the Marines in Chicago and we're going to be

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Speaker 7: So let me get this straight. I'm just trying to

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Speaker 7: understand this again. I'm a college dropout. The money to

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Speaker 7: build the educational institutions and the infrastructure in America, things

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Speaker 7: like hospitals, things we need that gets shipped to Israel,

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Speaker 7: the Marines and the National Guard get sent into the

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Speaker 7: cities where that money could have been used to better

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Speaker 7: the lives of the people.

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Speaker 1: That seems to make no sense.

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Speaker 2: I think Democrats should be taking notes from this and

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Speaker 2: Tim Dillon and have frame what's going on here, because

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Speaker 2: that was pretty effective messaging about where the administration's priority

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Speaker 2: seemed to be.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree with you, but then they would have

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Speaker 3: to agree with not sending arms to Israel.

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Speaker 1: We're not there yet, right, I mean getting there first?

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Speaker 1: You have to Yeah, first you have to get to

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Speaker 1: the point.

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Speaker 3: Well, I'm not so sure because I've always wondered this,

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Speaker 3: this whole this it's always been more of a Republican

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Speaker 3: talking point. But considering how Dems freaked out about usaid,

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Speaker 3: It's like, is it really going to be kind of

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Speaker 3: a core messaging conception about spend money here and not abroad?

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Speaker 3: I don't know, it's just more of an interesting intellectual question.

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Speaker 3: But I don't disagree with him literally whatsoever about the

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Speaker 3: foreign aid question, and specifically, I mean, the funny thing

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Speaker 3: is when you talk to the pro Israel defenders and

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Speaker 3: all them, they're always like, it's not that much money.

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Speaker 1: It's only three billion a year.

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Speaker 3: But Tucker actually recently had a great segment where he

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Speaker 3: broke down the totality of the amount of money sent

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Speaker 3: not just to Israel for in terms of aid, but

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Speaker 3: also to Egypt so they don't go to war with Israel.

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Speaker 3: But then also all of the billions that has cost

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Speaker 3: just since October seventh to defend them. For that price,

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Speaker 3: you actually could quite on ironically rebuild much of america'stytes

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Speaker 3: have infrastructure points from.

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Speaker 5: ACA subsidies at the very least.

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Speaker 2: Definitely, you know, there's a lot of uses for that

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Speaker 2: money here at home, no doubt about it. And just

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Speaker 2: a couple of updates with regard to the National Guard deployment.

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Speaker 2: So we covered yesterday that the Judge and Oregon trumpetpoint

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Speaker 2: and Judge and Oregon said, you can't federalize the national

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Speaker 2: Guard here, either the Oregon National Guard or the California

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Speaker 2: National Guard or the Texas National Guard or any other

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Speaker 2: national guard that you have in mind put in a

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Speaker 2: temporary restraining order.

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Speaker 5: JB.

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Speaker 2: Pritsker also took the administration of court to try to

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Speaker 2: block the use of they want to use the Texas

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Speaker 2: National Guard. I think this is insane using calling in

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Speaker 2: red state national Guard into a blue state against blue

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Speaker 2: state citizens. I think this is an incredibly dangerous escalation.

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Speaker 2: So in any case, JB. Pritzker went to court to

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Speaker 2: try to also get a temporary restraining order against that.

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Speaker 2: That judge is now allowing that federalization of troops and

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Speaker 2: deployment into Shigo to go forward. We also had Trump

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Speaker 2: yesterday saying he would consider invoking the Insurrection Act quote

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Speaker 2: if it was necessary, particularly if the courts or state

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Speaker 2: and local officials delay his plans to deploy the National Guard.

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Speaker 2: So just escalating the tension, escalating the tension, trying to

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Speaker 2: provoke some sort of a crisis, some sort of a confrontation,

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Speaker 2: and we're already seeing many of those play out. You know,

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Speaker 2: those the apartment raid that happened. Some of the residents

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Speaker 2: of that building are still missing. You also have a

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Speaker 2: number of people who've been picked up by Ice I'm

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Speaker 2: talking thousands of people who have just vanished. Their family members,

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Speaker 2: have no idea where they are, Lawyers haven't been able

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Speaker 2: to get in touch, et cetera. But you know, they're

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Speaker 2: ratcheting up the pressure, ratcheting up the pressure and sending

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Speaker 2: in red state National Guard to blue cities seems to

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Speaker 2: me like an an absolutely insane move.

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Speaker 3: It says here that the deployment would be some two

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Speaker 3: hundred Guard troops from Texas, which would be for the

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Speaker 3: same justification about federal property right. So that's this, This

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Speaker 3: is where they it's never it's to crush crime, which

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Speaker 3: is here in DC is the whole is for crime,

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Speaker 3: not the protection of federal property.

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Speaker 1: But then in Chicago the messaging is.

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Speaker 3: About crime, but it's actually to protect ice or it's

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Speaker 3: for deportation. It's like, what are we doing here?

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I think the entire thing is totally crazy.

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Speaker 3: In terms of the Insurrection Act, as you said, was

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Speaker 3: to was invoking the Insurrection Act, which has not yet

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Speaker 3: been invoked, and that was part of the original thing

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Speaker 3: that they were doing. Part of the justification. The invocation

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Speaker 3: here is around protecting federal property right, which is the

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Speaker 3: allowing to do some what You're gonna have to correct

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Speaker 3: me here because I'm still very confused on the convoluted nature.

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Speaker 3: They're allowed to protect and assist law enforcement, but cannot

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Speaker 3: carry out law enforcement action period correct, whenever they are

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Speaker 3: deployed under this author Well.

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Speaker 2: You're not wrong to be confused, because the line is

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Speaker 2: very hard to draw. So like, for example, if they're

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Speaker 2: involved in crowd control, yeah, is that civilian law enforcement?

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Speaker 2: If they're backing up ice, I would say that does

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Speaker 2: constitute civilian law enforcement. So the line is blurry, and

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Speaker 2: of course the Trump administration pushes it as far as

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Speaker 2: they can. DC is a bit of a special case

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Speaker 2: because of the different you know, laws here, et cetera.

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Speaker 2: But if we see what they were doing in California,

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Speaker 2: there were certainly instances where you know, it appeared that

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Speaker 2: they were doing domestic law enforcement actions, which should be

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Speaker 2: illegal under posse comittatis. But you know, putting all of

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Speaker 2: that like aside, what we're seeing in these in Chicago

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Speaker 2: and Portland are the main focus right now? Is this

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Speaker 2: just mass show of force?

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Speaker 5: And you know, I'm.

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Speaker 2: About to cover this shooting by a Customs and Border

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Speaker 2: Patrol agent. You know, it's already clear that they lied

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Speaker 2: about key details. Some of the details are still murky,

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Speaker 2: but already clear that they lied about it. But this

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Speaker 2: this agent shot this woman and you know, and appears

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Speaker 2: to have done it, said you know, do something, bitch,

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Speaker 2: and then shoots her. So these are things that are

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Speaker 2: already happening. And that's before we bring in the National

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Speaker 2: Guard again. You know, you think that they believe this

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Speaker 2: is politically like popular for them. I think that they

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Speaker 2: are intentionally trying to provoke a crisis, like they want

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Speaker 2: to get to the Insurrection Act. And their mo has

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Speaker 2: been from the beginning of this administration that they use

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Speaker 2: either real or imagined or generated crises to try to

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Speaker 2: consolidate more and more power. And so when I zoom

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Speaker 2: out from just these individual deployments or what they're you know,

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Speaker 2: alleged to be intending to do with them, and you

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Speaker 2: see the You see the law firms, you see the universities,

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Speaker 2: You see the kidnapping of students, you see the Crushian descent,

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Speaker 2: you see the consolidation media power, you see all of that.

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Speaker 2: You see the strikes in the Venezuela boats.

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Speaker 5: You see the.

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Speaker 2: Declaration of war against drug traffickers and you put it

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Speaker 2: all together. That's where I think this is a piece

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Speaker 2: of the broader puzzle versus you know, the like we

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Speaker 2: shouldn't look at it in isolation.

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Speaker 5: It's just I don't blind.

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Speaker 1: Anything thinking that.

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Speaker 3: I think the only reason I come from it this

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Speaker 3: way is because I now know how stupid many of

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Speaker 3: the people who involved in this are. You would not

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Speaker 3: try to take a fascist takeover a city with two

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Speaker 3: hundred troops from Texas. Instead, you would do a larp

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Speaker 3: of saying, look at these awesome Texas troops, and you

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Speaker 3: would produce ice pornography for boomers on your OSMO cameras

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Speaker 3: which are apparently following them around right now.

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Speaker 1: Listen.

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Speaker 3: You can say one is really bad, which I think

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Speaker 3: a lot that is bad, But that's not the same

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Speaker 3: thing as martial law in a city. Okay, And so

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Speaker 3: this is this is kind of what I'm trying to

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Speaker 3: get out here is at the end of the day,

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Speaker 3: you can you can say what is happening is extraordinary,

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Speaker 3: et cetera, but contextualized to say, we're talking about two

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Speaker 3: hundred troops from the Texas National Guard, all of whom

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Speaker 3: are going to surround an ice building and do basically nothing.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's not.

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Speaker 5: Think it's an important discion.

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying it. I'm not saying it's not crazy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not a martial law declaration takeover of Chicago

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Speaker 3: with hum vs in the streets.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yes, And I think it's important to point that

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Speaker 2: out and also to say, you know, when we're talking

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Speaker 2: about like free speech and the crushing of speech, it's

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Speaker 2: not that, like we're being critical of the Trump administration

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Speaker 2: on the show right now, it's not that they have

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Speaker 2: perfect and complete absolute power. It's that they want people

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Speaker 2: to have to think twice. They want to make an

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Speaker 2: example of a few people. They want to chill the

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Speaker 2: ability to speak freely, and there's some evidence that this

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Speaker 2: has been successful. I mean, with regard to the protests,

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Speaker 2: there's a whole cottage industry of Democrats in particular love

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Speaker 2: to point out like, oh, there's so many fewer like

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Speaker 2: pro Palestine protests now, And there's a variety of reasons

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Speaker 2: for that, but one of them. There are protests still

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Speaker 2: going on, but I think it's fair to say not

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Speaker 2: as widespread as they were at one point during the

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Speaker 2: Biden administration. There are a variety of reasons for that,

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Speaker 2: But one of them is because people are afraid, like

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Speaker 2: people are afraid of being targeted, but were pro Palestinian.

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Speaker 3: Passes always found that such a stupid talking point. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: nobody on the right gives a shit what a Palestinian

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Speaker 3: protester has to say.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, if anything, it's good for that.

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Speaker 5: Definitely true.

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Speaker 3: They can point in some pink haired weirdo and be like, look,

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Speaker 3: this is our opposition.

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Speaker 1: That's good for Israel. Right.

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Speaker 3: The reason they protested under Biden was because they're part

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Speaker 3: of the political culture.

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Speaker 2: They thought that they might actually be able to put

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Speaker 2: pressure on Biden. And then there's also just a level

443
00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:05,880
Speaker 2: of fatigue where it's October seventh, now we're two years

444
00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:08,439
Speaker 2: into you know, this this genocide, So all of that,

445
00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:10,520
Speaker 2: but I do think part of it too. You have

446
00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:13,960
Speaker 2: to take into account that, you know, they watched Remisa

447
00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:17,119
Speaker 2: Ostar get kidnapped off the street, they saw mackmod Khalil

448
00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:19,200
Speaker 2: be held in the detention center and not be able

449
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:21,800
Speaker 2: to be present for the birth of his child. And

450
00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:25,000
Speaker 2: they've seen, you know, students be expelled from universities after

451
00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:27,920
Speaker 2: being pressured from the Trump administration.

452
00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:28,199
Speaker 5: To do all of that.

453
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:31,920
Speaker 2: So it is important as we see these escalations that

454
00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:34,240
Speaker 2: you know, you're right. It's not the caricature of like, oh,

455
00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:36,720
Speaker 2: they roll in the humbies and they just take over Chicago.

456
00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:39,959
Speaker 2: But there is a show of force here that is

457
00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:43,879
Speaker 2: meant to be coercive, and that is what the you know,

458
00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:46,840
Speaker 2: the ice part is partly a show of force. It's

459
00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:51,119
Speaker 2: partly about obviously, like rounding up random immigrants. The National

460
00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:54,920
Speaker 2: Guard deployments are also meant to be a show of force.

461
00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:57,600
Speaker 2: It's also meant to be content creation for like you know,

462
00:20:57,680 --> 00:20:59,040
Speaker 2: fascist boom er porn.

463
00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:00,000
Speaker 5: It is all of those.

464
00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:02,560
Speaker 3: I think a lot of it is heightening contradictions too,

465
00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:06,760
Speaker 3: because what it demonstrates for the purposes of Chicago. Let's

466
00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:10,320
Speaker 3: say you have Brandon Johnson who's declaring ice free zones

467
00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:13,200
Speaker 3: right and saying, oh, well, Chicago police are not going

468
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:13,600
Speaker 3: to help you.

469
00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:16,320
Speaker 1: That's like catnip for Republicans, right, because.

470
00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:19,040
Speaker 3: They can say, look, this mayor won't even allow the

471
00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:22,080
Speaker 3: police to cooperate with ice, which I mean, I do

472
00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:24,399
Speaker 3: think is kind of crazy in this whole sanctuary city thing,

473
00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:26,600
Speaker 3: but courts of ruled I guess it's legal. It doesn't

474
00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:29,560
Speaker 3: make any sense to me same in Portland. They've basically

475
00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:31,480
Speaker 3: declared They're like, no, we're not going to help ice

476
00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:33,720
Speaker 3: or we're not going to come to their defense or

477
00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:37,520
Speaker 3: whatever for federal property. Which this is the justification on

478
00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:40,600
Speaker 3: the Feds. They want the narrative out there. The Pritzker

479
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,520
Speaker 3: and Brandon Johnson and them are pro crime and pro

480
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:46,399
Speaker 3: illegal and at the very least haven't done anything about it.

481
00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:48,040
Speaker 3: And so this is the people who are trying to

482
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:50,840
Speaker 3: restore law and order again. If I were you, if

483
00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:54,040
Speaker 3: I were somebody who looked at this from the outside

484
00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:58,520
Speaker 3: and wasn't as intimately familiar with some of the genuine

485
00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:01,439
Speaker 3: retards who are the people running, I would also be

486
00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:04,199
Speaker 3: deeply suspicious. So I do not blame anybody who is

487
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:08,600
Speaker 3: out there. What I have come to understand is much

488
00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:10,919
Speaker 3: of this, as I said about the two hundred guardsmen

489
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:15,879
Speaker 3: and then, is genuinely about content to appear. It's tough

490
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:19,800
Speaker 3: so that we can have fun conversations amongst various people

491
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:23,160
Speaker 3: on Twitter, and to basically have Fox News b roll

492
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:26,760
Speaker 3: that can roll everywhere without supposedly going the full way.

493
00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:29,560
Speaker 1: Now, can I rule out the full way at this point? No?

494
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:33,439
Speaker 3: Right, Okay, it's not that I'm not ruling that out whatsoever,

495
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:37,640
Speaker 3: but I don't think that's the actual plan. Quite literally,

496
00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:40,359
Speaker 3: quite a lot of this is about social media, which

497
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:43,159
Speaker 3: is sick. I agree, Okay, it's sick to actually have

498
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:45,520
Speaker 3: to be where we are right now because of it,

499
00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:47,520
Speaker 3: But that's I guess a bigger part of it.

500
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:49,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think it's both, right, I mean,

501
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:53,000
Speaker 2: I think the content creation is an important part of

502
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:57,240
Speaker 2: the fascist projection of power. But when you've got you know,

503
00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:01,800
Speaker 2: you've got this national security memory, and you've got real

504
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:05,520
Speaker 2: things that are genuinely happening. And also once you've normalized

505
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:09,200
Speaker 2: and they've basically already done this, once you've normalized soldiers

506
00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:13,760
Speaker 2: on American streets conducting normal law enforcement activities, that's not

507
00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:16,240
Speaker 2: something that you can put back in the bag. And

508
00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:19,879
Speaker 2: so those things are those things are extraordinary and they

509
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:22,520
Speaker 2: should be treated as such, even if a component of

510
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:26,640
Speaker 2: it is also theatrical. And the theatrical is also it

511
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:29,440
Speaker 2: is meant to scare people, It is meant to project

512
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,840
Speaker 2: something that creates a real impact, not just for like,

513
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 2: you know, their boomerati.

514
00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:35,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, but at the risk of getting into

515
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:39,000
Speaker 3: a crazy debate, it is a novel circumstance of like,

516
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,840
Speaker 3: if you have a city which doesn't want to enforce

517
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:42,520
Speaker 3: the law.

518
00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:45,399
Speaker 1: What do you do. It's like a neo Confederate idea.

519
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:47,840
Speaker 1: But can say, but.

520
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:50,200
Speaker 2: That's not true, that it is that is literally not true.

521
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:53,359
Speaker 2: I mean, like, let's use the example of Portland, because

522
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:55,479
Speaker 2: it's the one they're saying, Oh, we have to go

523
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:58,320
Speaker 2: and protect this like one ICE building. Okay, there were

524
00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 2: protests there that were continuous. They had dwindled down to

525
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 2: like twenty people. Law enforcement was their manager. They had

526
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:08,160
Speaker 2: made a number of arrests in the context of these protests.

527
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:12,199
Speaker 2: Nothing again insane, But it's not like law enforcement was

528
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,520
Speaker 2: just letting this, letting violent things happen and wasn't doing

529
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 2: anything about it.

530
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:17,639
Speaker 1: So well, you're a poorting to Portland.

531
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 3: But let's say Chicago in this case, like, okay, we

532
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:23,520
Speaker 3: do have a video of the ICE people, which by

533
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 3: the way, doesn't look good for the people of ICE

534
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:26,240
Speaker 3: who are involved here.

535
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:28,440
Speaker 2: So here you see this is a you know, an

536
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:30,880
Speaker 2: immigrant that I don't know if this is ICE or

537
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:34,959
Speaker 2: CVP with some federal agents are trying to apprehend and

538
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:38,640
Speaker 2: he is struggling and they are struggling with him and

539
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 2: you see him down here on the ground. They're trying

540
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 2: to get his hands into you know, basically zip ties

541
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:49,920
Speaker 2: Flex Scott Sea exactly, and random Chicago residents are stopping

542
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:53,680
Speaker 2: their cars and yelling at them and video recording them

543
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:55,800
Speaker 2: and telling them to leave them alone and telling them

544
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:59,159
Speaker 2: to go, and eventually, after struggling with him for a while,

545
00:24:59,280 --> 00:24:59,880
Speaker 2: they do leave.

546
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:00,720
Speaker 1: Okay.

547
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,159
Speaker 3: So on one level, the American in a lot of

548
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:05,639
Speaker 3: us is like, don't tread on me.

549
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:07,159
Speaker 5: We don't absolutely.

550
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,359
Speaker 3: On the other, do we really want mass mobs of

551
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 3: citizens to determine who is allowed to have law enforcement

552
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:15,440
Speaker 3: on the street or not. And this kind of gets

553
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,000
Speaker 3: to my Chicago police. So if the Chicago police say

554
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 3: we're not going to assist in a federal law enforcement operation,

555
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,680
Speaker 3: that is genuinely like a neo Confederate idea where illegals

556
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,159
Speaker 3: are legal here. No, we have the supremacy clause of

557
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 3: the US Constitution. The law of the land is supreme

558
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 3: across all states. Like I remember during Los Angeles, they're like,

559
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:35,360
Speaker 3: Ice needs to.

560
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:36,440
Speaker 1: Get out of LA.

561
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 3: You don't determine that. America determines that, Like it's a weird.

562
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:42,159
Speaker 5: Determining it right there?

563
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 3: Okay, there are a few people, So okay, those people

564
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:47,399
Speaker 3: on the street get to have more supremacy than the

565
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 3: United States Constitution, military and ICE.

566
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 2: But no, start the context here, which is that ICE

567
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 2: is routinely violating people's rights, right assaulting them, apprehunding them

568
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:01,800
Speaker 2: with no warrants, flying Blackhawk military.

569
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:05,960
Speaker 1: Warrant to detain you. Especially both you.

570
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:07,680
Speaker 2: And I both know a measure of you, and I

571
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:10,920
Speaker 2: both know that it hasn't just been undocumented immigrants who

572
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 2: have been apprehended. People feel their rights are being violated,

573
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:18,399
Speaker 2: and they disagree with the you know, with the what

574
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:20,480
Speaker 2: they see as an invasion.

575
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:22,400
Speaker 5: And a crash down. I mean there, this is what city.

576
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:23,960
Speaker 6: No.

577
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:27,359
Speaker 2: But you like, the expectation is if you win an election,

578
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 2: you're going to follow the law, and they're not doing that.

579
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:32,359
Speaker 2: So that's where the context comes in of people know,

580
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:35,240
Speaker 2: they don't feel like it is just for some random

581
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:37,680
Speaker 2: They don't trust that ICE is like apprehending this guy

582
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 2: in good faith or that they have a real reason

583
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 2: to be apprehending him. They don't support the lawlessness and

584
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 2: the rogue nature. ICE is out of control. Like we've

585
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 2: watched them assault American citizens, We've watched them you know

586
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 2: they'll detain American citizens with no due process, no lawyer,

587
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,399
Speaker 2: no ability to make a phone called, no nothing. That

588
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:59,160
Speaker 2: is what this agency is doing. And so yeah, people object.

589
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:00,600
Speaker 1: To that, Okay, you can object at all you want.

590
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,159
Speaker 3: Again, do you not think it's a little bit crazy

591
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 3: that low municipalities get to just declare we will not

592
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 3: be compliant with federal law.

593
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that's not.

594
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:10,920
Speaker 2: Saying they're not they won't be compliant federal law. What

595
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:13,399
Speaker 2: they're saying is that we're you, Okay, you want to

596
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:15,359
Speaker 2: come in and do your thing, like we can't stop you.

597
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:17,680
Speaker 2: But that doesn't mean we have to devote our law

598
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:21,159
Speaker 2: enforcement resources, which are limited to whatever dumb shit you

599
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:23,119
Speaker 2: want to do, which is by the way, violating our

600
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:23,680
Speaker 2: own cities.

601
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:23,879
Speaker 6: Right.

602
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,360
Speaker 3: But in the case of let's say, go out Los Angeles,

603
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 3: they quite literally demanded withdrawal and lack of enforcement in

604
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 3: their own city. It's like, you don't get to you

605
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:34,399
Speaker 3: don't get to decide that the federal government does not

606
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:36,639
Speaker 3: have supremacy here, Like we do need to stand up

607
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 3: at the very least for a little bit for this

608
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 3: idea that because I mean, think about it, would you

609
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:45,439
Speaker 3: really would you really accept this locality arguments from the South.

610
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 1: Let's say during second No, everybody rejected it.

611
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:51,440
Speaker 2: But hold on, it's not like Gavin Newsom sent in

612
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 2: the California National Guard to like repel Ice from the city.

613
00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 5: That's not what happened. Ice has been allowed to operate.

614
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 1: It's not allowed.

615
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:03,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, there's no library, which is kind.

616
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 1: Of what I'm saying. There's no allowing they are operating. Yeah,

617
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:06,960
Speaker 1: it's federal I.

618
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:08,920
Speaker 5: Know, that's what's the way, though, I'm not sure what

619
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 5: you're objecting from.

620
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,440
Speaker 3: Adaptedly, was like this rhetoric in this idea that these

621
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,720
Speaker 3: localities just get to simply decide that federal law enforcement

622
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 3: does not get to take place happening.

623
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:17,960
Speaker 7: No, it is.

624
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,120
Speaker 3: I mean, in the case of Chicago, they're actively genuinely

625
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 3: trying to make sure that they don't. They they're like

626
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,440
Speaker 3: not allowing their property to be mobilized, they're not determining

627
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:29,960
Speaker 3: any resources. They're saying that they won't answer any calls

628
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:32,200
Speaker 3: on the way there. This is not a defensive Ice,

629
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:35,080
Speaker 3: who I agree with you, has acted genuinely out of control.

630
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 1: But there is a weird neo Confederate thing taking over.

631
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 3: I think a part of the modern left that seems

632
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 3: to say that immigration enforcement is not allowed in blue states.

633
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 2: I just think that misperception of what the argument has

634
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 2: been and what the reality on the ground has been. So,

635
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:53,719
Speaker 2: for example, in Chicago, Chicago Police Department has been present

636
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 2: at a lot of the protests. They've been you know,

637
00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:00,520
Speaker 2: they've provided crowd control, including you know, to benefit fit ICE.

638
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 2: In this instance where this lady got shot, ICE originally

639
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 2: lied and or whatever federal agiascy And there's a bunch

640
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 2: not just ICE that are on the ground there said

641
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 2: that Chicago Police Department didn't come and assist. That was

642
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 2: just a total blatant lie of what actually occurred. In fact,

643
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 2: ICE agents have been calling in in the suburb broad

644
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 2: view where the ICE facility is. They've been calling in phony,

645
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 2: bogus nine to one one calls, draining resources, et cetera.

646
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 2: So I don't like what you're describing. I don't think

647
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 2: is the reality of what's actually taking place. And yes,

648
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 2: do people object to the tactics of ICE. Do they

649
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 2: object their rights being violated? You know, little kids being

650
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 2: dragged out in the middle of the night and zip tid'.

651
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 2: Of course they objected that, and it is their right

652
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 2: as American phitisens to. No one's that happening in their city.

653
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 1: No one's saying you can't object. No one is saying

654
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 1: that you cannot object.

655
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 3: I think I am saying that you probably should not

656
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 3: be interfering with law enforcement operation on the street in

657
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 3: this way, just because that can go down a very

658
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 3: dangerous road quickly. I mean it's like, okay, let's say,

659
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 3: do we o support mob violence? Like, do we just

660
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 3: support mob rules?

661
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 1: Well, I don't.

662
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 3: I think it leads a very bad direction, even though

663
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 3: I know much the left eye us after BLM.

664
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 5: I agree, Sager.

665
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 2: But what I find more interesting about that video is

666
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 2: number one, the total incompetence of launch, so non display.

667
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 2: Number two that these aren't activists. These are just random

668
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,680
Speaker 2: people who happen to be driving by. And so in

669
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 2: the same way that we could evaluate, you know, the

670
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 2: response to LUIGIMANGIONI murdering and a healthcare CEO and say, well,

671
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:33,480
Speaker 2: when the American people are like, you know, find that

672
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 2: to be potentially a positive or at least they're like

673
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 2: not upset about.

674
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 5: That happening, you have to ask a question, why sure?

675
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 2: And so I think that's more of my point with

676
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:46,480
Speaker 2: the video is to say, like, it is an extraordinary

677
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:51,680
Speaker 2: thing that you have just almost seemingly every random person

678
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 2: who happened to come by taking what are in your

679
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 2: your right to say extraordinary actions to say, I'm going

680
00:30:58,120 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 2: to involve myself, I'm going to record this, I'm going

681
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 2: to back to this. A couple of them got physically

682
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 2: involved in terms of trying to, you know, intervene here.

683
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 2: That is a real break from the norm with the

684
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 2: American public. And so that's what I find to be

685
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 2: extraordinary about that video is what it says about how

686
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 2: people in those communities are feeling about.

687
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 1: The sure so we can sociologically think it's interesting.

688
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 3: I think what I'm afraid of is literally the same

689
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 3: thing of what happened with anti fund BLM is it's

690
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 3: not it's not a far cry from leftist and mainstream

691
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 3: media justification of oh, that's good, that's what you're supposed

692
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 3: to do. And I mean, this is where it's like,

693
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 3: people are you're afraid of conflagration. It's like, well, then

694
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 3: there is too much of a permission structure.

695
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 2: Right, But I feel like you are holding random individuals

696
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 2: on the street to a higher standard than the president

697
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 2: of the United States, the head of Department of Homeland Security,

698
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 2: et cetera, because they I think it to me, it

699
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 2: is abundantly clear that what they want is some sort

700
00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 2: of a conflagration that they can use again to further

701
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 2: expand power. They're actively courting that, and they haven't really

702
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 2: fully gotten that yet because you have had a level

703
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 2: of I don't know if it's disconnection or you know,

704
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 2: just you have not had that or discipline. Really you

705
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 2: have not had that full conflagration. But you know, that's

706
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 2: clearly when you are rating an apartment building with black

707
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 2: Hawk helicopters, like, that's clearly the sort of.

708
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 5: Thing that you're up.

709
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 2: When you're sending Red state troops into Blue states, that

710
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 2: is the sort of thing that you are courting. And

711
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 2: it only takes one horrific thing going sideways to be

712
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 2: you know, in another country.

713
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 1: Look, I mean that's one interpretation of it.

714
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:41,240
Speaker 3: The other is is that it's a shakunaw approach to

715
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 3: make sure that people self deport, which is actually working.

716
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 1: I'm not defending the ice thing. I think it's crazy.

717
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 1: I would I do not support that literally whatsoever.

718
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, And in a lot of these cases though, and

719
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 3: this kind of im pointing to the mom thing. I'm

720
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 3: just watching the permission structure happen over and over again,

721
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 3: where it's like, oh, let's encourage this stuff, then you're

722
00:32:58,120 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 3: going to get what you want and you got to

723
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 3: start killing agents or any of that. I mean, it's crazy,

724
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 3: and actually before maybe we'll talk about this after your monologue,

725
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 3: but one of the things that should maybe hearten people

726
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 3: is that, at the very least in America, you do

727
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 3: have to prove a lot of your shit in court

728
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 3: if you're actually.

729
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 1: Just going to accuse people.

730
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 3: And if we think about some of the most extraordinary

731
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 3: and stupid things. Let's say that the Trump administration has

732
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 3: tried to charge remember the sandwich guy, but Grand Juriy

733
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 3: just throws that out immediately you're about to do your

734
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 3: home monologue. People are lying bodycam et cetera has actually

735
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 3: come to their savior.

736
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 1: So I don't know.

737
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 3: I mean, there's a lot of these warnings about some

738
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 3: you know, takeover, and you know, again, a lot of

739
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 3: the rhetoric is like Humvey's martial law being declared in Chicago.

740
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 3: I do think it's important to contextualize and say, like

741
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 3: some of the system actually is holding in a way

742
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 3: that I don't think is being portrayed, and instead there

743
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 3: is a permission structure to violence that I'm watching like

744
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 3: pretty clearly play out well with a lot of the commentariat.

745
00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 2: Well, we'll take your point. I'll just say in that

746
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 2: particular video, no one is being violent. I mean most

747
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 2: of what people are doing, we're just standing there shouting.

748
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 1: Involve yourself in a law enforcement operation like that's literally obstruction.

749
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 2: Of Like mostly what you saw was people stop in

750
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:13,640
Speaker 2: their cars, honking, yelling at them, which they're allowed to do.

751
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:16,319
Speaker 1: I'm not talking about them, I'm talking about the people.

752
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 1: Actually we're getting involved here.

753
00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:19,719
Speaker 2: I think that's crazy, Like one guy who was like,

754
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:23,400
Speaker 2: you know, trying to pull him away. What most of

755
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:26,800
Speaker 2: what was happening was first of all, them being thoroughly

756
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 2: incompetent and embarrassing way.

757
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:29,879
Speaker 5: Which we've seen in other instances as well. I'm sure

758
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 5: you saw that.

759
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 2: Did you see the video of the guy in Maryland,

760
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 2: some like ice buffoon who's gun like fell out, the

761
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:37,799
Speaker 2: voice is gun at the crowd and just I mean

762
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:39,920
Speaker 2: just clown and stuff. And by the way, that is

763
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 2: only going to get worse because of how rapidly they

764
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 2: are trying to increase the ranks of ICE. But anyway,

765
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:48,840
Speaker 2: so you have that, and then most of what you

766
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 2: have is just people like random people standing there and

767
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 2: yelling and recording.

768
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:55,800
Speaker 1: And I support recording the police. It drives them crazy.

769
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 3: Everybody should do it, especially if you see it around.

770
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 3: You want to record ICE all you want? Fine more

771
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 3: talking about the permission structure for a lot of this

772
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 3: stuff in the way that we talk about it, because

773
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:08,920
Speaker 3: I fear, just like with Luigi Mangioni or something like that,

774
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 3: somebody starting to take it seriously and not understanding the

775
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 3: full context of where we are, Like, yes, things can

776
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 3: be very very very very very bad, and they are.

777
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 1: I'm not denying it.

778
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:21,840
Speaker 3: After we did a whole segment yesterday, I literally was like,

779
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:24,360
Speaker 3: I think the country's falling apart, like quite literally. And

780
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 3: at the same time, you know, you can have a

781
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 3: body can you can have a federal agent accuse somebody

782
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:32,759
Speaker 3: shooting someone apparently unjustibly as you're about to do your

783
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 3: monologue on yeah, and that can be disproven in a

784
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 3: court in a day, and you can walk free. Now

785
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:39,920
Speaker 3: that person's life was unjustly interfered with by the federal

786
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:42,439
Speaker 3: government and she should sue. In my opinion, and that's

787
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:45,440
Speaker 3: my thing is we still have some faith in our institutions.

788
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 3: I don't want people to be so blackpilled that they

789
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 3: think that violence and all that genuinely is the answer.

790
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:52,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, because that seems to me where things are trending

791
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:53,279
Speaker 1: right now.

792
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:56,839
Speaker 2: I hope that you're wrong, but I agree, I share

793
00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:00,400
Speaker 2: your concern, and I the last, the last thing I

794
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:04,480
Speaker 2: would say is, you know, one of the fears is

795
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:08,239
Speaker 2: that you have some parts of the system that do

796
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:10,640
Speaker 2: still seem to function and work right, and the court

797
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:13,399
Speaker 2: system at the lower level especial being one of them,

798
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:16,400
Speaker 2: and especially when it comes to you know, adjudicating like

799
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:20,320
Speaker 2: business disputes and those sorts of things like that continues

800
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:20,760
Speaker 2: to function.

801
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:22,360
Speaker 5: And at the same time, you have.

802
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 2: The executive which, enabled by the Supreme Court, is carving

803
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:29,840
Speaker 2: out broader and broader zones where the laws really don't apply.

804
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:33,160
Speaker 2: So that's taking it back to Venezuela. When you're saying

805
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:36,840
Speaker 2: war with drug cartels, that means in drug traffickers. That

806
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:40,360
Speaker 2: means that if they randomly you know, this this is

807
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 2: taking this has not happened yet. If you randomly shoot

808
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:46,560
Speaker 2: someone on the street, you say they were an enemy combatant.

809
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:48,440
Speaker 5: They were a drug trafficker, Like is that now allowed?

810
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:52,480
Speaker 2: That's not that different from just blowing up random venezuela

811
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:57,440
Speaker 2: potentially migrants at sea. So they continue to expand and

812
00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 2: carve out more in war zones where the laws really

813
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:04,400
Speaker 2: don't apply. And ICE has been one of the primary

814
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:08,040
Speaker 2: focal points of that because they can justifiably say, we

815
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:10,880
Speaker 2: ran on a mandate of mass deportation and this is

816
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 2: what the American people want.

817
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:13,920
Speaker 5: But then when you're.

818
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:17,320
Speaker 2: Sweeping up American citizens and denying them do process rights,

819
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:19,880
Speaker 2: when you're assaulting American citizens. I know you and I

820
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:22,320
Speaker 2: both watched the business owner who had his ribs broken.

821
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:25,920
Speaker 2: We watched a woman you know, whose husband was being deported,

822
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:29,280
Speaker 2: thrown to the ground and had to be hospitalized. Photojournalists

823
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:31,560
Speaker 2: who are just trying to record what's happening, being thrown

824
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:34,640
Speaker 2: to the ground and having head trauma, and this all

825
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 2: happening with your accountability.

826
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 5: That's where it.

827
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 2: Gets very concerning, because that zone of lawlessness that the

828
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 2: president has claimed continues to expand and expand and expand.

829
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:46,840
Speaker 2: So does that mean that everything is like totalitarian We

830
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:49,400
Speaker 2: can't say, we can't criticize and we can't walk outside

831
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:50,400
Speaker 2: without being snatched up.

832
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 5: Blah blah blah.

833
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:53,760
Speaker 2: No, of course they're parts of society that still function,

834
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:56,680
Speaker 2: but we should be deeply concerned about the way that

835
00:37:56,800 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 2: that zone of lawlessness continues to exit banned and the

836
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:03,320
Speaker 2: way that manifests itself, the way that it tramples on

837
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:06,440
Speaker 2: all of our rights, and you know, takes away parts

838
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 2: of America that I think you and I both really

839
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 2: trying it.

840
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 3: No, I think that's very well said, as long as

841
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 3: it's I just you know, I fear the most of

842
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:18,960
Speaker 3: watching because we saw how like George Floyd to George

843
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 3: Floyd murdered to burning shit down happened in two weeks.

844
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:25,279
Speaker 3: Like we saw how quickly that can all transpire, and

845
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 3: then full blown rioting that can just people getting murdered

846
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 3: and everybody's totally okay with that, and then we have

847
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 3: the BLM Ferguson effect on cops for the next two

848
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:36,200
Speaker 3: and a half years. My greatest fear, and I do

849
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:39,239
Speaker 3: think the government is complicit, is to see some sort

850
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:43,479
Speaker 3: of spiral like that happen. And genuinely, who knows, because

851
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 3: you can't trust the government right now with the way

852
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:47,960
Speaker 3: that they've handled the situation. And again, I literally know

853
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:50,360
Speaker 3: some of the people who are actual idiots or know

854
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 3: of the people who aren't. I don't trust their judgment

855
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 3: at all. I still can't believe there are the people

856
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:58,839
Speaker 3: who got these jobs. Then there's also on the other

857
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:01,719
Speaker 3: side of that, I see the permission structure starting to

858
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 3: bubble up, where each are their own like great, they're

859
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:09,360
Speaker 3: both greatest nightmare but also kind of the dream boogeyman

860
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:11,400
Speaker 3: that they want to create. Yeah, and if there is

861
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:14,920
Speaker 3: not responsibility that prevails even in a dangerous moment like this,

862
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 3: things are going things can go south so quickly, right,

863
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 3: with basically a preview, So what do you take Indeed.

864
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:26,160
Speaker 2: All right, let's take a look at this. Over the weekend,

865
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:29,960
Speaker 2: amid the ice created melee in Chicago, an immigration agent

866
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:34,000
Speaker 2: shot an American woman multiple times following some sort of

867
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:37,800
Speaker 2: a traffic incident. Now that incident escalated protests in the

868
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:40,319
Speaker 2: city that has already been rocked by DHS is heavy

869
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:43,879
Speaker 2: handed tactics, including, as we've discussed here, an apartment raid

870
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:47,960
Speaker 2: that involved black Hawk helicopters. Now, the details of exactly

871
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:50,759
Speaker 2: what transpired with this woman, whose name is Maramar Martinez,

872
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:53,360
Speaker 2: are kind of murky. But what has become quite clear

873
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:56,800
Speaker 2: is that the government initially lied about some really key details,

874
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:02,280
Speaker 2: and now her lawyer is c that bodycam footage undercuts

875
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 2: their story entirely. This is raising serious questions about whether

876
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:09,920
Speaker 2: armed federal agents just shot an anti ice activists and

877
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 2: then brazenly lied about it to cover their tracks. So

878
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 2: let me take you through the timeline of their shifting

879
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:19,400
Speaker 2: stories and exactly what the evidence shows. So this incident

880
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:22,359
Speaker 2: that occurred on Saturday morning and involved not only Martinez

881
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:26,000
Speaker 2: but another motorist, Anthony Ruiz, who was not shot but

882
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 2: was arrested. On Saturday evening, DHS spokesperson Trisia McLaughlin put

883
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:34,000
Speaker 2: out the following statement with the government's first version of

884
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:36,719
Speaker 2: the events that led up to that shooting. Now pay

885
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:38,600
Speaker 2: attention to the details here. These are going to matter,

886
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 2: McLaughlin wrote. Quote, this morning, during routine patrolling in broad View,

887
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:45,960
Speaker 2: in the same area of Chicago, law enforcement were assaulted yesterday.

888
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:49,080
Speaker 2: Our brave law enforcement officers were rammed by vehicles and

889
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:52,600
Speaker 2: boxed in by ten cars. Agents were unable to move

890
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:55,600
Speaker 2: their vehicles and exited the car. One of the drivers

891
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:58,400
Speaker 2: who rammed the law enforcement vehicle was armed with a

892
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:02,719
Speaker 2: semi automatic weapon. Law enforcement was forced to deploy their

893
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:06,320
Speaker 2: weapons and fire defensive shots at an armed US citizen

894
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 2: who drove herself to the hospital to get care for wounds.

895
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:12,320
Speaker 2: The armed woman was named in a CBP intelligence bulletin

896
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 2: last week for doxing agents and posting online, Hey to

897
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:18,520
Speaker 2: all my gang, let's fuck those motherfuckers up. Don't let

898
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:22,799
Speaker 2: them take anyone. Thankfully, no law enforcement officers were seriously injured.

899
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:23,360
Speaker 5: In this attack.

900
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:26,320
Speaker 2: Pritzkirt's Chicago Police Department is leaving the shooting scene and

901
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 2: refuses to assist us in securing the area. There is

902
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:31,759
Speaker 2: a growing crowd and we are deploying special operations to

903
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:34,239
Speaker 2: control the scene. This is an evolving situation. We will

904
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:37,320
Speaker 2: give more info as soon as it becomes available. So

905
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:40,760
Speaker 2: that was their first version of events. Now that story

906
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:44,480
Speaker 2: was immediately called into question from a variety of directions.

907
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:48,520
Speaker 2: First of all, the other motorist, Anthony Ruiz's mother denied

908
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:51,480
Speaker 2: the government's version of events. According to The New York Times,

909
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 2: mister Ruiz's mother, Elizabeth Ruiz, that her son told her

910
00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:56,800
Speaker 2: on the phone in the morning he had been rammed

911
00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:58,840
Speaker 2: by federal agents and that they were shooting.

912
00:41:59,120 --> 00:41:59,880
Speaker 5: Upon hearing that, she.

913
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 2: Said she raced to the scene. She said an agent

914
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:04,279
Speaker 2: grabbed her son said he was under arrest. When she

915
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 2: asked why, she said, you received no answer. So, according

916
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:09,520
Speaker 2: to Ruiz and his mother, he just happened to be

917
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:12,200
Speaker 2: in the area, was rammed by ice, and then arrested

918
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:16,280
Speaker 2: for no reason. Then Chicago Police Department said the DHS

919
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 2: was also lying about their supposed failure to assist in

920
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:19,720
Speaker 2: crowd control.

921
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 5: Quote.

922
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:23,680
Speaker 2: In a statement, Chicago Police clarified officers did respond to

923
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:26,320
Speaker 2: the shooting scene involving federal agents on Saturday near the

924
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:29,400
Speaker 2: intersection of West Thurday ninth Street and South Kensia Avenue

925
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:32,480
Speaker 2: around ten thirty am. Police said their purpose was to

926
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 2: quote maintain public safety and traffic control. Then we got

927
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 2: the actual charging document from the government, and key details

928
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 2: from McLaughlin's original story about Martinez were now missing. So

929
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 2: the government themselves undercut key details of their original narrative.

930
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 2: First of all, McLaughlin got the location wrong. Second, remember

931
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:56,480
Speaker 2: how she claimed that they were boxed in by ten cars.

932
00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:59,600
Speaker 2: Suddenly in the criminal complaint only four cars were mentioned Martinez,

933
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 2: Ruiz and to others. Originally, McLaughlin had said that Martinez

934
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:05,840
Speaker 2: drove herself to the hospital. Complaint says that she was

935
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:08,800
Speaker 2: actually taken by ambulance from a nearby repair shop. But

936
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:13,520
Speaker 2: most critically, McLaughlin had originally claimed the government had to

937
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:16,880
Speaker 2: fire shots and self defense in part because Martinez was

938
00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:21,520
Speaker 2: armed with a semi automatic weapon. The criminal complaint makes

939
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:26,280
Speaker 2: no mention of Martinez carrying a firearm, So even before

940
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:29,520
Speaker 2: an initial hearing on the charges facing Martinez, government had

941
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:33,480
Speaker 2: already contradicted their own story in multiple significant ways. But

942
00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 2: hearing last night raised even more questions about exactly what

943
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:41,800
Speaker 2: happened here, So Chicago Tribune reporter Jason Meisner covered these proceedings.

944
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:45,400
Speaker 2: According to Martinez's attorney, there at those proceedings the presence

945
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 2: of rogue armed agents of the state that was the

946
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 2: real danger to the community, not Martinez. Martinez's team alleged

947
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:56,520
Speaker 2: that bodycam footage tells a totally different story than what

948
00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:59,919
Speaker 2: the government has been selling. So her attorney told the court,

949
00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:03,440
Speaker 2: based on repeated viewings of the bodycam footage, you can

950
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:06,640
Speaker 2: see the agent who was driving suddenly turned the wheel

951
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:10,360
Speaker 2: to the left, indicating he actually ran Martinez, not the

952
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:14,360
Speaker 2: other way around. Then the agent jumps out and starts shooting.

953
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 2: Martinez's attorney also argued that the pattern the bullets through

954
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:22,400
Speaker 2: Martinez's passenger side door was inconsistent with the government's narrative

955
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:26,680
Speaker 2: about a head on ramming. In addition, the bodycam footage

956
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:30,800
Speaker 2: captures this agent saying, quote, do something, bitch, before he

957
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:33,640
Speaker 2: jumps out of the car and starts firing his weapon.

958
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:37,080
Speaker 2: The bodycam footage was said to directly contradict the government's

959
00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:40,840
Speaker 2: claim that Martinez was driving towards officers when they fired

960
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:44,360
Speaker 2: at her in self defense. What's more, after the shooting,

961
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:48,320
Speaker 2: the agent appears to warn another agent about speaking plainly

962
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:52,240
Speaker 2: about what had just occurred, cognizant of the body cam's recording.

963
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:52,920
Speaker 5: Quote.

964
00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:56,520
Speaker 2: After the shooting, Martinez's lawyer says, the body camera captured

965
00:44:56,560 --> 00:45:00,200
Speaker 2: another agent coming up and saying, Hey, what happened. The

966
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:04,440
Speaker 2: agent points to his bodycam and says, hey, don't speak,

967
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:08,160
Speaker 2: You're good. As for the government, their lawyer did claim

968
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:11,279
Speaker 2: that that same bodycam footage captured an agent saying, we're

969
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:12,120
Speaker 2: getting boxed in.

970
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:13,279
Speaker 5: We got to get out of here.

971
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:16,120
Speaker 2: She's going to make contact right before the car is

972
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:21,120
Speaker 2: struck on both sides. Now, notably, Martinez's attorney offered to

973
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:23,840
Speaker 2: show the bodycam footage to the court, while the government

974
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:28,760
Speaker 2: lawyers made no such offer. Ultimately, Martinez was shot five times.

975
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:29,680
Speaker 5: She's now being.

976
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:33,560
Speaker 2: Charged with forcibly, assaulting, resisting, opposing, impeding, intimidating, or interfering

977
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:37,319
Speaker 2: with a federal law enforcement officers in the performance.

978
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:37,840
Speaker 5: Of their official duties.

979
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:40,800
Speaker 2: So far, though the judge does not seem to impress

980
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:44,399
Speaker 2: with the government's case, both Martinez and Ruiz were ordered

981
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:46,839
Speaker 2: released after the judge found the government did not meet

982
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:49,360
Speaker 2: the bar for requiring the two to be detained until

983
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:53,359
Speaker 2: their trial. Now, given body camera footage exists, we are

984
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:55,720
Speaker 2: eventually going to get the real story of what exactly

985
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:59,879
Speaker 2: transpired here. But already, in significant ways, the government story

986
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 2: of self defense against a rampaging woman with a semi

987
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:06,840
Speaker 2: automatic weapon has completely fallen apart. And while no agents

988
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:10,560
Speaker 2: were injured, an American woman suffered five gunshot wounds from

989
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:13,759
Speaker 2: her own government. And one can only assume there will

990
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:17,640
Speaker 2: be more dangerous and potentially deadly encounters between citizens of

991
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:20,400
Speaker 2: our country and the government their tax dollars fund as

992
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:23,759
Speaker 2: the Trump regien escalates their ice and National Guard deployments.

993
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 2: And so sorry you were talking about and This is

994
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:26,359
Speaker 2: a risk

995
00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:30,040
Speaker 3: And if you want to hear my reaction to Crystal's monologue,

996
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:32,920
Speaker 3: become a premium subscriber today at Breakingpoints dot com