1 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:07,240 Speaker 1: Hello there, Happy Monday morning. I'm Chuck Todd. Welcome to 2 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:10,360 Speaker 1: another episode of the Chuck Podcast. There's a few things 3 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 1: I want to get to. I also have my history 4 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 1: today where we have we have given this segment a name, 5 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:21,360 Speaker 1: the todcast time Machine. Well, the toodcast time machine keeps 6 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:24,159 Speaker 1: going back to the seventies. I won't say what the 7 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 1: issue is yet, but it is. It is connected with 8 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 1: some of the challenges we dealt with last week and 9 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 1: we're dealing with going forward, especially if you're a journalist 10 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:37,159 Speaker 1: trying to cover the Trump administration. So it's a very 11 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 1: timely you know, as I try to do every week, 12 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 1: I go into the time as time machine for the 13 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:47,879 Speaker 1: seven day period that this UH that the that this 14 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 1: week's podcast will be uploaded to, so that it becomes 15 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 1: a I look for relevant historical UH moments that I 16 00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 1: think are worth relearning about if you don't know them, 17 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:05,119 Speaker 1: because they're connected with a challenge that we're all dealing 18 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:07,960 Speaker 1: with today. So that's coming up. But I want to 19 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:10,960 Speaker 1: begin with a poll that got overlooked a bit too 20 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 1: much last week. And I want to touch on the 21 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:16,399 Speaker 1: shut on the potential shutdown that's coming, because that is 22 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 1: likely to dominate Washington politics at least for the next 23 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 1: seven to ten to twenty. Who knows how long it 24 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 1: lasts or who knows if they do the punt right, 25 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 1: the last second punt continuing resolution that buys another month, 26 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 1: you know, week, month, year, et cetera. So, but it 27 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 1: came as quinnipiac and it was sort of the it's 28 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 1: the first decent, lengthy poll following the Charlie Kirk assassination 29 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 1: that is asking relevant questions that I think we need 30 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 1: to have more pollsters be asking about, and that is 31 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 1: whether or not you know what kind of serious problem 32 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 1: political violence is. So this pole was conducted, like I said, 33 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 1: after the Charlie Kirk assassination, seventy one percent. So that's 34 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 1: you get anything in the seventies. You're getting Democrats, Republicans, 35 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 1: and independents to agree on something. Seventy one percent said 36 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 1: political motivated violence in the United States is a very 37 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 1: serious problem. Twenty two percent called it a somewhat serious problem. 38 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 1: So put that together, right, you basically have ninety three 39 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 1: percent of the country think political violence is either a 40 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 1: very serious or somewhat serious problem. Just three percent said 41 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 1: it was not so serious. In one percent said it 42 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:31,959 Speaker 1: was not a problem at all. More than half fifty 43 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 1: three percent said they were pessimistic about the protection of 44 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:38,160 Speaker 1: free speech, while only forty three percent said they were optimistic. 45 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:42,920 Speaker 1: That broke. That broke on party, very partisan lines. Republicans 46 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:48,920 Speaker 1: not in the majority on that one. But here's here's 47 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:51,919 Speaker 1: a number that ought to be disturbing. Fifty three percent 48 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:59,080 Speaker 1: said this system of democracy is simply not working. That's 49 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 1: a that's pretty h that's pretty demoralizing. Let me go 50 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 1: through more of this poll. They also asked, would you 51 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 1: say the United States is in a political crisis? Right? 52 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 1: So seventy nine percent said yes. Sixty percent of Republicans 53 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 1: said we're in a political crisis, ninety three percent of 54 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:17,960 Speaker 1: Democrats said we're in a political crisis. Eighty four percent 55 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 1: of independence said we were in a political crisis. Now, 56 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:25,360 Speaker 1: here's some other interesting questions that are about sort of 57 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:27,839 Speaker 1: this topic to see can we start talking to each 58 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:30,639 Speaker 1: other about this if we don't have leaders that are 59 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 1: going to de escalate, can the public deescalate? Well, here, 60 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 1: I'll let you decide whether these are demoralizing numbers or not. 61 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 1: Let me read you the full question and thinking about 62 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 1: people you know, who hold political views different than your own. 63 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 1: Would you say you are mostly able to talk with 64 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 1: them about your differences, or would you say you mostly 65 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 1: avoid talking with them about your differences. Well, forty nine 66 00:03:57,160 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: percent say they try to talk to folks about their 67 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 1: different diferenceans, and forty seven percent said they like to avoid. 68 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 1: Now here's what's interesting. Republicans. A majority say they like 69 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 1: to talk about their differences fifty four percent, while forty 70 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 1: four percent of Republicans say they try to avoid the 71 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 1: top politics as a topic of conversation. Democrats, well, they're avoids. 72 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 1: Just thirty seven percent say they try to talk with 73 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 1: somebody with political differences. Sixty percent simply want to avoid 74 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 1: the conversation altogether. Independence they look more like Republicans in 75 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:33,680 Speaker 1: this question. Fifty two percent said they favor talking, forty 76 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:36,360 Speaker 1: four percent say they favor avoiding. And there's an interesting 77 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:38,840 Speaker 1: gender gap in this one. A majority of men say 78 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 1: they prefer to talk, a majority of women say they 79 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:45,600 Speaker 1: prefer to avoid, which shouldn't be surprising. There are more 80 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 1: women who are Democrats more men that are Republicans. So 81 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:51,280 Speaker 1: in some ways, if the genders are splitting that way, 82 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:54,919 Speaker 1: if the two parties are splitting as starkly as I 83 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 1: just presented to you. Look, there's a lot of ways 84 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 1: to read that, right, but the fact that you have 85 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:04,040 Speaker 1: you know, I would call I would really want to 86 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 1: tell my Democratic friends here who find themselves as a voiters, 87 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 1: and I say this, Look, I pick and choose. I'm 88 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:15,720 Speaker 1: in this weird situation as somebody who gets recognized. People 89 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:18,360 Speaker 1: want to talk politics with me. People want to have 90 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 1: this conversation with me. Whatever their point of view is, 91 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:25,120 Speaker 1: they want to tell me. They also assume that they 92 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:28,479 Speaker 1: think they know my politics. So if they're on the 93 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:30,359 Speaker 1: right side of the spectrum, they'll say, like, you know, 94 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 1: I really like you, but I don't agree with your politics. 95 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 1: I said, what are my politics? We aren't you on 96 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:36,839 Speaker 1: the left? I'm like, you know, no. And you know, 97 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:41,719 Speaker 1: one of the problems we have today is hard partisans 98 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 1: on the left and right think that if you don't 99 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:46,479 Speaker 1: agree with them, then you must be on the other 100 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:49,600 Speaker 1: side rather than there's some of us that are just 101 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:52,599 Speaker 1: skeptical of the extremes of both parties. In fact, it's 102 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 1: a pretty large segment of us that live in this space. 103 00:05:56,279 --> 00:05:58,160 Speaker 1: It's part of the what I'm trying to do in 104 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:05,239 Speaker 1: prioritizing having a podcast and a space where that's where 105 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 1: a majority of Americans live. You're progressive, you're maga, you know, 106 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 1: go go, go, go to your corners and talk to 107 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:17,840 Speaker 1: your subs over there. This is not the place to 108 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:22,720 Speaker 1: have to have mono conversations. I want to have conversations 109 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 1: in stereo. I'm trying to have conversations with the left 110 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 1: and the right. It's a little harder to sometimes book 111 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 1: harder partisans. They don't want to have a sometimes talk 112 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 1: to the middle of the road. I think a lot 113 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 1: of elected officials would prefer the safety of talking to 114 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 1: their base. But the fact that it's sixty percent of 115 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 1: Democrats say they avoid here's what I could tell you. 116 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 1: You're never going to get the majority to support your 117 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:53,479 Speaker 1: to persuade them that you're willing to govern if you 118 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:58,039 Speaker 1: don't talk to people that you disagree with. And you know, 119 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 1: it's interesting. I wish we were tracking this question because 120 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 1: just anecdotally, this feels like ten years ago that the 121 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 1: numbers would have been reversed where it would have been 122 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 1: a majority of Democrats were on the talking side of things. 123 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 1: And I think when you feel like the cultures on 124 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 1: your side, you're probably more willing to talk to the 125 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 1: other side when you think you're going against the grain 126 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 1: and culture, you may feel fearful. And I will say this, 127 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:27,680 Speaker 1: you know, I do think if you avoid political conversations, 128 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 1: it means you feel like a minority wherever you're living. 129 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 1: That's that's my you know, I'd love to a more 130 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 1: layered understanding of where these folks are, but that would 131 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 1: be that would be my hypothesis on this one, that 132 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: if you're a void, that if you're more likely to talk, 133 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 1: it's because you maybe you live in a community where 134 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 1: you think you're in the majority and you feel secure 135 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 1: in having that political debate. We got to feel like 136 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 1: we can have a political debate when we're insecure, meaning 137 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 1: when we're the minority in our community on a side 138 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 1: of the aisle. So that's a that's something that I 139 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:06,560 Speaker 1: think worth thinking about in this poll. So I told 140 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 1: you that earlier question. The headline question, do you think 141 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 1: the system of democracy in the United States is working 142 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 1: or not? Forty one percent set it was working, fifty 143 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 1: three percent set it was not working. Let me give 144 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 1: you the party line trends. This is where there's dramatic 145 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 1: divide which shouldn't surprise. Republicans are currently in power, so 146 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: guess what. Seventy four percent of Republicans think the democracy 147 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 1: is working pretty well. Democrats are not in power anywhere, right, 148 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: so guess what. Seventy four percent of Democrats don't think 149 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:38,719 Speaker 1: the democracy is working. But here's the tiebreaker. Always goes 150 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:42,559 Speaker 1: to independence, and it's always on these questions. Sometimes independents 151 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 1: look more like Republicans and sometimes they look more in Democrats, 152 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:49,319 Speaker 1: and on this question, they look like democrats. Sixty one 153 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:52,200 Speaker 1: percent of independence say the democracy is not working in 154 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 1: a five You know, look speaking of somebody who feels 155 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:58,959 Speaker 1: more like an independent than anybody else. You have less 156 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:02,040 Speaker 1: rights in this democracy. Then if you're a registered deer 157 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 1: or registered R you have fewer primaries, you get to 158 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 1: participate in fewer choices on the ballot. There is no 159 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 1: bigger disenfranchised group, uh in partisan politics than those that 160 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 1: choose not to register as a deer and R. Look, 161 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 1: I think there's plenty. I think there's a bunch of 162 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 1: Fourteenth Amendment issues when it comes to ballot access, when 163 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:27,439 Speaker 1: it comes to the way independents are treated during primaries. 164 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 1: So that's a number to me. That's very explainable that 165 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:37,199 Speaker 1: independence feel that this democracy is are working because if 166 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:40,199 Speaker 1: you're not a member of the two parties, you have 167 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 1: no access to power. You don't feel like you have 168 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:46,079 Speaker 1: access to power or even the access to contribute. And 169 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:50,679 Speaker 1: if you're this now this should be motivation for democrats 170 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:54,240 Speaker 1: to actually work with you know, realized that, hey, they're 171 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 1: not alone in this feeling. But it's all about you know, 172 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 1: ch you know, if you if you want to win 173 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 1: over this big group of independents. Most of them don't 174 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:08,439 Speaker 1: necessarily want to go in one ideological direction. They're looking 175 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:10,840 Speaker 1: for a little more openness, a little more transparency. But 176 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 1: a worthwhile number by the way, to tell you how 177 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 1: sort of partisan the nose side is in this. So 178 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 1: those that said the democracy isn't working the fifty three percent, 179 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:26,680 Speaker 1: Quinnepia created a follow up question for those fifty three percent, 180 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 1: so we already know now it's basically half of this 181 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 1: group is democrats, about half of this group is independent. 182 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 1: Who do you blame more for the system of democracy 183 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:38,200 Speaker 1: now working in the United States? Now, I don't like 184 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 1: what they did here because they only offered the two parties. 185 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 1: They said, is it the Republicans are the Democrats and 186 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 1: not surprising a majority pick the Republicans in this place. 187 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 1: But is it that is? Is it the Constitution? Is it? 188 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 1: Is it the media? Is it? I think there are 189 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:58,320 Speaker 1: other entities here to put out his money? What is it? 190 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 1: An individual? What would you what would you put on there? 191 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 1: So I think that this is to my poster friends 192 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 1: who listened to my podcast here, I think these issues 193 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:10,960 Speaker 1: are worth exploring. Gwinnepiac got us started. But maybe there's 194 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 1: some better questions that we can ask on this. But 195 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:18,920 Speaker 1: it gets me to what we're going to be dealing with. 196 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:22,440 Speaker 1: The absurd story that we're going to be dealing with 197 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:27,080 Speaker 1: over over the next potentially month, week, or year. And 198 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 1: the reason I call it an absurd story is the 199 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:36,200 Speaker 1: only before nineteen eighty we had no government shutdowns. And 200 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:39,480 Speaker 1: there's a reason we never had a government shutdown. Nobody 201 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 1: had bothered to interpret the law as saying that when 202 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 1: the fiscal year ended, if Congress hadn't agreed to the 203 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 1: new spending levels for the next year, that somehow the 204 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:52,559 Speaker 1: government was going to cease to operate. There was an 205 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 1: assumption before nineteen eighty And I'll get to the point 206 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 1: here there was an assumption that, hey, no matter what, 207 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:01,319 Speaker 1: there's going to be some Congress will catch up and 208 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:06,200 Speaker 1: it'll be figured out. But an institution as large as 209 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:09,679 Speaker 1: a US government, it was just assumed it was always 210 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 1: going to operate, and it was kind of absurd that 211 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:18,840 Speaker 1: you would shut it down. Well, guess what in nineteen 212 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:25,200 Speaker 1: eighty and then again in nineteen eighty one, the first 213 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 1: the Carter Justice Department, then the Reagan Justice Department, got 214 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 1: an Office of Legal Counsel opinion that essentially created the 215 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:39,679 Speaker 1: idea that yes, indeed, we could have a government shutdown. 216 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:44,280 Speaker 1: And how did it do that. It ruled that when 217 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:50,439 Speaker 1: the appropriations expire that specific entities that were funded on 218 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 1: an annual basis not permanent funding. And I'll get to 219 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 1: that an amendment, because this is why there's an exemption 220 00:12:56,080 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 1: for Social Security that if it's annual spending, well then 221 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:08,840 Speaker 1: and you don't have a new congressional law passed, well, 222 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 1: then you cannot that that agency cannot function until there 223 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:18,959 Speaker 1: is money that was passed by the US Congress till 224 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:22,679 Speaker 1: the essentially there is a law that says this agency 225 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:27,680 Speaker 1: has the funding to operate. And so thanks to these 226 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 1: legal counsel first a Democratic Justice Department Carter, then a 227 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 1: Republican Justice to Compartment right after then we had the 228 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 1: birth of the existence that Indeed, if there was a 229 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 1: fiscal showdown on September thirtieth at midnight, bleeding in October 230 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 1: first and there was no agreed upon budget passed by Congress, 231 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:55,560 Speaker 1: agencies funded on a yearly basis would have to cease 232 00:13:55,600 --> 00:14:01,520 Speaker 1: in operation. So we got our first real set of 233 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 1: lengthy shutdowns in the nineties, right it was Neuke Gingridge 234 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 1: and versus Bill Clinton twenty seven days. I remember I 235 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:12,840 Speaker 1: had a roommate. I was working at the hotline at 236 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 1: the time. I had two roommates that worked for the 237 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 1: federal government. Between those shutdowns and this massive couple of 238 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:22,800 Speaker 1: snowstorms we happened to get that year in the winter 239 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 1: of ninety five ninety six, I'm pretty sure my roommates 240 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 1: didn't work for three months. Okay, they basically were it 241 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:34,360 Speaker 1: they and they eventually got their pay. I mean, look, 242 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 1: it was not fun. Let's not pretend it was a vacation. 243 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 1: They couldn't go anywhere you were sort of it was 244 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 1: sort of like COVID. They were sort of trapped. I 245 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:44,640 Speaker 1: was going back and forth to work, and you know, 246 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 1: I never had any privacy for those for those three months. Love, 247 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:50,000 Speaker 1: my love, my former roommates. I know a couple of 248 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 1: you still listened, so but I remember those days fondly. 249 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 1: But that's when we sort of became extraordinarily partisan with 250 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:02,560 Speaker 1: these government shutdowns. The game almost became an annual affair. 251 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 1: Right the nineties, happened, took a pause, and then pretty 252 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:12,480 Speaker 1: much right particularly with the election of Barack Obama, we're 253 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:16,520 Speaker 1: now where a government shutdown threat at a minimum, is 254 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 1: now an annual thing, and about every looks like about 255 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:22,320 Speaker 1: every three or four years, we actually do shut the 256 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 1: government down, sometimes for a weekend, sometimes for a week. 257 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 1: Donald Trump did what I thought was the near impossible. 258 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:32,160 Speaker 1: He was the first president to preside over a shutdown 259 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 1: caused by his own party. As the Republicans were handing 260 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 1: over power to the Democrats in twenty eighteen to twenty nineteen. 261 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 1: After the twenty eighteen midterms, Congress still hadn't agreed upon 262 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 1: a budget, so we actually ended up having among the 263 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 1: longest shutdowns. Democrats took control of the House during a 264 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:54,600 Speaker 1: government shutdown, just an extraordinary aspect of things. But again 265 00:15:55,120 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 1: we manufactured two legal opinions manufactured the idea that we 266 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 1: could even have a government shutdown now. After the lengthy 267 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 1: shutdowns of the mid nineties, lawmakers decided to pass a 268 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 1: couple of laws that were intended to make sure more 269 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 1: people weren't harmed by government shutdowns, but the unintended consequences 270 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 1: that actually made it easier to then play politics with 271 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 1: the budget and force a shutdown. We had two laws 272 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 1: that were passed that was a way to sort of 273 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 1: shield harsh political consequences of a government shutdown. The first 274 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:39,600 Speaker 1: one was passed in twenty thirteen and it was called 275 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:43,400 Speaker 1: the Pay Our Military Act, and essentially now it exempts 276 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 1: military pay from any government shutdown. Military is automatically paid. 277 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 1: If you're wondering about Social Security, it was deemed always 278 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:56,640 Speaker 1: exempted because it is not an annual appropriation. It is 279 00:16:56,720 --> 00:17:00,160 Speaker 1: funded by a trust fund. And in some ways Medicare 280 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:04,360 Speaker 1: and Medicate also fall into this loosely, which is why 281 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:09,600 Speaker 1: the benefits also are keep moving out. So now you 282 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:16,200 Speaker 1: could argue that if the Social Security administration can't function 283 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 1: and there's nobody there to be paid, then checks can't 284 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:26,240 Speaker 1: go out. Obviously, in this day and age of automation. 285 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 1: You don't need that, but I could make that argument, 286 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:31,640 Speaker 1: and you could if you wanted to. There's a part 287 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:34,040 Speaker 1: of me that wants to make it much harder to 288 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 1: shut the government down. And if the consequences were delayed 289 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:41,679 Speaker 1: social Security checks for potentially poor elderly people and no 290 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 1: military pay for military families around the world with kids, etc. 291 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 1: I promise you these lawmakers would be deathly afraid of 292 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:54,400 Speaker 1: playing politics with the federal government like this. But we've 293 00:17:54,520 --> 00:18:00,720 Speaker 1: essentially exempted the two most you know, the two rails 294 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 1: if you will, that could could make this quite difficult. 295 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:09,200 Speaker 1: One is paying the military and the other is paying 296 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:12,760 Speaker 1: out Social Security benefits. Now, if you're wondering, has there 297 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 1: ever been efforts to essentially get rid of government shutdowns? Well, 298 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:19,600 Speaker 1: there have. I'm glad I asked myself that question, and 299 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 1: I'm glad you're thinking it. I hope you are right. 300 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 1: Bob Packwood tried one in the eighties, Kent Conrad tried 301 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:28,920 Speaker 1: one of the nineties. Rob Portman pushed pushed it during 302 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:31,720 Speaker 1: his time, basically a way to create what was called 303 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:37,680 Speaker 1: an automatic continuing resolution that would keep agencies. Different bills 304 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:41,200 Speaker 1: have been produced, and leadership of both parties have killed 305 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 1: these bills. But what these rank and file lawmakers have 306 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:47,639 Speaker 1: attempted to do is basically saying you can't shut the 307 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:51,120 Speaker 1: government down. That if you don't agree on appropriations by 308 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:55,520 Speaker 1: September thirtieth, then there would be an automatic quote unquote 309 00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:58,920 Speaker 1: stopcap continuing resolution. And each one of these has been 310 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:02,359 Speaker 1: fairly so will learn how they've been put together. But 311 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:06,479 Speaker 1: the idea would simply be government is funded at the 312 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:11,520 Speaker 1: previous year's levels and for the next, say, thirty days, 313 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 1: and if no agreement is made, then then there's a 314 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 1: one person maybe and some of them have well, then 315 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:19,680 Speaker 1: we'll have a one percent across the board budget cut 316 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 1: for every agency for every thirty days that a budget 317 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:26,880 Speaker 1: doesn't come. Maybe you want to speed that up. Maybe 318 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 1: you make it for seven day periods where one percent 319 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:34,199 Speaker 1: across the board, where you create some sort of you 320 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:36,840 Speaker 1: got to have a forcing mechanism to get the budget 321 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:39,480 Speaker 1: done right so that you don't just automatically do this. 322 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 1: But at the same time, government operations don't cease anywhere, 323 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:50,879 Speaker 1: and I think without the spectacle of putting barricades in 324 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:53,960 Speaker 1: front of National park operations and silly things like that. 325 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:57,200 Speaker 1: Oh sorry, the you know, Wally World has closed, kids, 326 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 1: you know Donnie World is closed, you can't go in. 327 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:06,680 Speaker 1: If you created these these these real incentives to force 328 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:11,560 Speaker 1: these appropriators to get their act together, we wouldn't have shutdowns. 329 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:14,399 Speaker 1: So the point is when you think about when you're 330 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 1: watching this week the spectacle of the government shutdown. By 331 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:23,480 Speaker 1: the way, there's the most recent attempt to sort of 332 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:28,200 Speaker 1: eliminate the ability to have these stupid government shutdown fights. 333 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:31,480 Speaker 1: A bipartisan bill James Langford out of Missouri, Maggie Hassen 334 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:38,320 Speaker 1: out of New Hampshire. THEIRS would restrict congressional travel and 335 00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 1: then and also potentially you know, so putting some pain 336 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 1: on them and then restrict their pay a little bit 337 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 1: as well. There's all sorts of mechanisms you could put 338 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:52,720 Speaker 1: in here that I promise you would be politically popular 339 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:56,080 Speaker 1: with the public because this is ridiculous. I have a 340 00:20:56,119 --> 00:21:00,160 Speaker 1: friend who works who were was a nuclear engineer. I'm 341 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:01,920 Speaker 1: not going to get into the details of what he's done. 342 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:05,240 Speaker 1: He's gone in and out of government. He's a private contractor, 343 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 1: gone in and out of government, and he is telling 344 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 1: me the rules of the government budget. So that even 345 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:17,200 Speaker 1: when the government's open under a continuing resolution. You may 346 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 1: not be allowed to work on your research project because 347 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:24,800 Speaker 1: it's under a continuing resolution and under last year's authority, 348 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:28,520 Speaker 1: not the next year's authority. As he has complained to me, 349 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 1: he's one of these, a political guys, good friend of mine, 350 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:33,680 Speaker 1: and he just says, he goes, I wish you could 351 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:37,560 Speaker 1: explain how much wasted money there is, he goes. I 352 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:40,359 Speaker 1: sometimes have to sit on my hands. I am not 353 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:44,679 Speaker 1: allowed to work on a government funded project during the 354 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 1: midst of one of these stupid budget standoffs, not even 355 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:50,280 Speaker 1: a full government shut down, even when they're under these 356 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:54,919 Speaker 1: six week continuing resolutions, where it will be illegal for 357 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:58,320 Speaker 1: him to work on a government research project that, oh, 358 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:03,400 Speaker 1: may or may not have to do with nuclear safety. Okay, 359 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:09,200 Speaker 1: so it is one of these. You know, I can't 360 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 1: stand this manufactured political crime. We have enough frickin' problems 361 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 1: in America that we have. Literally the politicians in charge 362 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:24,679 Speaker 1: since nineteen eighty have created the conditions to make this easier, 363 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 1: not harder. Your elected officials have gone out of their 364 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 1: way to create this political theater. It started with two 365 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:40,920 Speaker 1: legal opinions back in nineteen eighty and eighty one, and 366 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:44,680 Speaker 1: then to make it less politically painful to have these 367 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:48,160 Speaker 1: ridiculous theaters of the absurd of shutting down the government. 368 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:55,120 Speaker 1: They exempted the couple of entities that would be completely 369 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:59,360 Speaker 1: empathetic to the public at large and make it politically 370 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 1: really uncomfortable for any party to want to instigate a 371 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 1: government shutdown. But at this point, look, nobody wins. You know, 372 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:10,320 Speaker 1: I'm going to go through all the cliches. Nobody wins 373 00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:14,639 Speaker 1: a government shutdown, YadA, YadA, YadA. It's true, and the 374 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 1: pain is only immediate at this point, right, It's terrible 375 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:22,760 Speaker 1: politics for the moment, and literally the public moves on 376 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:27,919 Speaker 1: within about a month from the shutdown happening itself. So 377 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 1: this is what's really frustrating about this. We have so 378 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:35,160 Speaker 1: many broken aspects of our politics. But in some way, 379 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:41,399 Speaker 1: this is a really good example of just how poor 380 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:45,400 Speaker 1: the leadership has been in Washington. Now, arguably, you could 381 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 1: say this is a collection of forty five years of 382 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 1: just regular members of Congress have wanted to stop this nonsense, 383 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:59,440 Speaker 1: and the elected leaders, speakers, majority leaders, minority leaders, they 384 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:02,040 Speaker 1: have gone out of their way to collectively quash this 385 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 1: bills because they enjoy having manufactured political leverage. Oh isn't 386 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 1: that nice. So when you watch the charade that is 387 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,120 Speaker 1: going to be this debate over of wind to reopen 388 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:24,480 Speaker 1: the government, realize they created this entire nonsense themselves. The 389 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:27,679 Speaker 1: only reason the government is shutting down is they wanted 390 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 1: to create an opportunity to have to sort of create 391 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:35,679 Speaker 1: a leverage point. It's like, it's like it's like doing 392 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 1: you know, it's like adding an extra round of the playoffs. 393 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 1: That's a good thing to do. In this case, Hey 394 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 1: let's add more political drama to Washington because we don't 395 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:48,879 Speaker 1: have enough. But this was just manufacture. This is and 396 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:54,399 Speaker 1: this does not have to be. We absolutely manufacture this, 397 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:59,400 Speaker 1: and then we made it easier to do. I've gone 398 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 1: through this before for and an interesting theme that I 399 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 1: think I'm stumbling upon here, which is our politics are 400 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 1: broken because our incentive structures are insane. We have an 401 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:15,520 Speaker 1: incentive structure that actually incentivizes government shutdowns and showdowns. It 402 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 1: does not incentivize cooperation anymore. But if you wanted to 403 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:23,479 Speaker 1: incentivize cooperation, you could. And you know who has stopped it. 404 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 1: Elected leaders in the US Congress. Okay, they have stopped it. 405 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:38,960 Speaker 1: If you are tired of government shutdowns. Literally, there are 406 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:44,680 Speaker 1: bills on the shelf you pull down, and there are 407 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:48,440 Speaker 1: all sorts of ways to avoid this theater of the absurd. 408 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:52,160 Speaker 1: But they don't want to do it. They don't want 409 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 1: to do it because they want to. They actually want 410 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 1: the opportunity to have this theater. They're not pushing any 411 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 1: new ideas. This is just manufactured theater. This is where 412 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 1: I would argue the two when you sit there, why 413 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,000 Speaker 1: I'm so empathetic with my friends who are trying to 414 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 1: start up a third party or an independent movement, because 415 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:14,720 Speaker 1: this is where you say to yourself, boy, the two 416 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:17,320 Speaker 1: parties have sort of run out of gas, haven't they. 417 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:19,720 Speaker 1: Where they have no new ideas, so they need new events. 418 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 1: Let's have new spectacles government shutdowns, Let's have midterm conventions. 419 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:26,360 Speaker 1: Nobody wants to solve problems. Nobody wants to figure out 420 00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 1: how to make Congress more functional. We've actually gone out 421 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 1: of our way to pass laws to make it easier 422 00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:39,399 Speaker 1: to make Congress more dysfunctional. When I think about where's 423 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:41,920 Speaker 1: the outrage? You know one of my favorite old Bob 424 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:46,240 Speaker 1: bolisms to borrow from and for my younger listeners out there, 425 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:48,639 Speaker 1: I'm sorry for making a nineties reference, but I hear 426 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:54,000 Speaker 1: the nineties are back. If you're looking to be outraged 427 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 1: about something, I wish you channel some outrage here and 428 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 1: realize this is a bipartisan absurdity over the last few 429 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 1: decades that has happened here, and we're going to have 430 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,040 Speaker 1: in there. Oh it should be healthcare. Look, we're in 431 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,200 Speaker 1: this moment. I wrote an article that, Look, it's inevitable 432 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:15,359 Speaker 1: we're going to get here. Democrats have probably politically some 433 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 1: good leverage with healthcare. Republicans look like they may, you know, 434 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 1: the Trump administration may you know, go over their skis 435 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:27,560 Speaker 1: and their threats to essentially only only govern for Republicans 436 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:32,639 Speaker 1: and not governed for Democrats, essentially, you know, picking and 437 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 1: choosing what they fund. But we're only here in this 438 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:42,480 Speaker 1: situation because once again Congress seated authority that it, you know, 439 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:47,960 Speaker 1: So when everybody's complaining in that Congress about Russ's VOD doing, 440 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,400 Speaker 1: what he's doing is the budget director during the shutdown, 441 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:54,200 Speaker 1: Congress had the power to deal with this multiple times, 442 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 1: and they didn't. And now you're staring into an abyss. 443 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:07,480 Speaker 1: Extraordinarily irresponsible budget director may eviscerate appropriations and congressional spending 444 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:10,200 Speaker 1: in this country. But Congress only has itself to blame 445 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:13,960 Speaker 1: for this mess. That's it, all right, Bet you didn't 446 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,240 Speaker 1: think I could get I could get you worked up, 447 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,280 Speaker 1: let alone me worked up over the mechanics of a 448 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,199 Speaker 1: government shutdown. But this is what's wrong with so much 449 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:24,440 Speaker 1: of our politics, this is what's wrong with so much 450 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 1: of our media. And this is why I love this format. 451 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:30,719 Speaker 1: It was really hard to convey sort of how this 452 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:33,280 Speaker 1: I would say it in passing, like you realize this 453 00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:37,160 Speaker 1: is a manufactured crisis and all of this, but I 454 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:41,480 Speaker 1: am glad to have the space to explain now this 455 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 1: is systematically a manufactured crisis, one that just we literally 456 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,080 Speaker 1: had politicians decide, hey, we should be able to create 457 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,360 Speaker 1: more of these, you know, more of a showdown moment, 458 00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:56,840 Speaker 1: not less, because the goal is to make government less functional, 459 00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:04,520 Speaker 1: not more unbelievable. We we are our you know, this 460 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 1: American experiment starting to you know, turn stort in fifty 461 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,840 Speaker 1: next year. If we don't make it to two fifty one, 462 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:14,000 Speaker 1: it's things like this, we only would have ourselves. Why 463 00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:16,560 Speaker 1: all right, on that uplifting note, let me sneak in 464 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:19,960 Speaker 1: a break here when we come back a history, lesson 465 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 1: for the week, little Q and A, and we'll get 466 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:30,320 Speaker 1: out of here. There's a reason results matter more than promises, 467 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 1: just like there's a reason Morgan and Morgan is America's 468 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:36,400 Speaker 1: largest injury law firm. For the last thirty five years, 469 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:39,520 Speaker 1: they've recovered twenty five billion dollars for more than half 470 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 1: a million clients. It includes cases where insurance companies offered 471 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,520 Speaker 1: next to nothing, just hoping to get away with paying 472 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:49,440 Speaker 1: as little as possible. Morgan and Morgan fought back ended 473 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:52,240 Speaker 1: up winning millions. In fact, in Pennsylvania, one client was 474 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:56,000 Speaker 1: awarded twenty six million dollars, which was a staggering forty 475 00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 1: times the amount that the insurance company originally offered. That 476 00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:02,800 Speaker 1: original offer six hundred and fifty thousand dollars twenty six million, 477 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 1: six hundred and fifty thousand dollars. So with more than 478 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 1: one thousand lawyers across the country, they know how to 479 00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:10,200 Speaker 1: deliver for everyday people. If you're injured, you need a lawyer, 480 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,400 Speaker 1: You need somebody to get your back. Check out forthpeople 481 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:18,200 Speaker 1: dot com, Slash podcast or now pound law, Pound five 482 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:22,200 Speaker 1: two nine law on your cell phone. And remember all 483 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:24,240 Speaker 1: law firms are not the same so check out Morgan 484 00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 1: and Morgan. Their fee is free unless they win. And 485 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 1: now the toodcast time machine. Where are we going? We 486 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:50,120 Speaker 1: are going to October fifth, nineteen seventy four. So let's 487 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,360 Speaker 1: see here. Let me get my calendar straight. This coming Sunday, 488 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:56,560 Speaker 1: so it fit in. It made my window. October fifth, 489 00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:01,800 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy four. It's the day that Congress finally put 490 00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:06,200 Speaker 1: some teeth into the Freedom of Information Act. Let me 491 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,640 Speaker 1: tell you the story. So here we were. It's October fifth, 492 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:12,520 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy four. Here I go again, back to the 493 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,640 Speaker 1: Nixon era. Right, it's two months after Richard Nixon resigned 494 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:19,520 Speaker 1: in disgrace. Congress ended up doing something it is rarely done. 495 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:24,520 Speaker 1: It overrode a presidential veto under the umbrella of trying 496 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 1: to strengthen transparency. Here was the situation. President Gerald Ford 497 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:31,640 Speaker 1: was new to office, and he obviously was trying to 498 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:36,200 Speaker 1: reestablish some stability. He decided to veto. As you might imagine, 499 00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 1: there was a whole bunch of reform ideas that members 500 00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:45,920 Speaker 1: of Congress were thrown through and trying to pass before 501 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:49,120 Speaker 1: the November elections of infamous Watergate elections. It was just 502 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:52,680 Speaker 1: a bloodbath. Or Republicans. But before then, a whole bunch 503 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:57,680 Speaker 1: of transparency laws, all sorts of things were being thrown 504 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:01,840 Speaker 1: out there, and including a sweeping set of amendments to 505 00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:05,320 Speaker 1: strengthen what was what already existed, which was the Freedom 506 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:07,600 Speaker 1: of Information Act, but it had no teeth. It was 507 00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:11,320 Speaker 1: almost impossible to get any information out of the government. 508 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:15,400 Speaker 1: And at the time, and you're going to love this flashback, 509 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:19,680 Speaker 1: Ford's chief of staff manned by the name of Donald Rumsfeld, 510 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:23,200 Speaker 1: Yes that Donald Rumsfeld, former Defense secretary, and the deputy 511 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:26,520 Speaker 1: chief of staff Dick Cheney, Yes, that Dick Cheney. They 512 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:30,120 Speaker 1: argued that these reforms were going to jeopardize national security, 513 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:34,440 Speaker 1: it could embold in America's adversaries and weaken the presidency itself, 514 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:38,720 Speaker 1: these new transparency laws. That was the case that Jeney 515 00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:42,920 Speaker 1: and Rumsfeld made to Ford. Ford agreed. Ford vetoed the bill. 516 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:47,640 Speaker 1: But obviously Congress was this was a very popular idea, 517 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:52,640 Speaker 1: and Congress was very much more worried about the public 518 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:57,080 Speaker 1: than the presidency. So in under the you know, still 519 00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:03,920 Speaker 1: reeling from Watergate, Vietnam desception, lawmakers over wrote a presidential veto. Right. 520 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:09,000 Speaker 1: This doesn't happen often, ever, but they voted overwhelmingly to 521 00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:11,680 Speaker 1: do it, and it's sent a pretty powerful message that 522 00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:14,920 Speaker 1: the secrecy of the government was no longer going to 523 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:18,160 Speaker 1: be that kept then a vault and kept secret. The 524 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 1: law it self was first signed reluctantly by Lyndon Johnson 525 00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty six. The idea was to give citizens 526 00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:27,680 Speaker 1: and journalists a right to government records. There had been 527 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:30,800 Speaker 1: no right to this before nineteen sixty six, but at 528 00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:34,880 Speaker 1: the time there was enough loopholes that essentially every agency 529 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:42,640 Speaker 1: could avoid any disclosure. What the nineteen seventy four amendments 530 00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:46,479 Speaker 1: did was it forced some deadlines, It created judicial review, 531 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,240 Speaker 1: and it created real teeth for these Freedom of Information 532 00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:53,280 Speaker 1: Act requests, which sort of forced action. It either forced 533 00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:59,080 Speaker 1: you'd know within a matter of days if your request 534 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,640 Speaker 1: was going to get process or not. And it sort 535 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:05,600 Speaker 1: of flipped the script right. It made it so that 536 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:10,840 Speaker 1: the public was seen to have a legal right to 537 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:19,560 Speaker 1: request these records and fight for them in court. It 538 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:24,040 Speaker 1: also triggered a whole bunch of state open sunshine laws. 539 00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:29,040 Speaker 1: And it's worth noting that while a lot of states 540 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:32,919 Speaker 1: did have some public records statutes right maybe after fifty years, 541 00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:35,000 Speaker 1: after sixty years, but they had a whole bunch of 542 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:38,239 Speaker 1: carve outs. After the federal government passed their version of 543 00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:41,960 Speaker 1: Freedom of Information Act, particularly after seventy four, you started 544 00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:45,360 Speaker 1: to see more states do stuff more seriously. Started in 545 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,840 Speaker 1: sixty seven, Colorado, New York, and Virginia created and updated 546 00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:52,439 Speaker 1: their records laws, citing the new Freedom of Information Act. 547 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:56,120 Speaker 1: In seventy two, Florida passed what is still today one 548 00:34:56,120 --> 00:35:00,440 Speaker 1: of the best open records laws that exist among the 549 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:03,520 Speaker 1: fifty states. They called it the Sunshine Law, and it 550 00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:07,160 Speaker 1: required government meetings and records to be opened by default. 551 00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:09,760 Speaker 1: It's one of those things where you get to find 552 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:13,120 Speaker 1: this stuff easily. Trust me. To this day, Ron de Santa, 553 00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:16,359 Speaker 1: every governor and Desanta's the latest. I'm not singling him 554 00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:21,440 Speaker 1: out just just because of Disantas. Every governor hates the 555 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:24,879 Speaker 1: law open and looks for ways to go around it. 556 00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:28,280 Speaker 1: These days. That's private email and all this stuff, et cetera. 557 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:34,480 Speaker 1: From seventy five to seventy seven, in the wake of Watergate, California, Illinois, 558 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:37,680 Speaker 1: and Texas rewrote their statutes that also expanded access to 559 00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:40,759 Speaker 1: Texas's open records law also is one that's pretty good 560 00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:43,760 Speaker 1: in particular, and then by the eighties, nearly every state 561 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:47,279 Speaker 1: had enacted a comprehensive Open Records or Open Meetings Act. 562 00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:51,520 Speaker 1: Georgia and Ohio were particularly influential. They modeled it modeling 563 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:55,319 Speaker 1: and any person can request standard right. You don't have 564 00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:59,640 Speaker 1: to be have any specific standing on that issue. And 565 00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:03,480 Speaker 1: then of course the nineties created more updating of the 566 00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:06,880 Speaker 1: laws for digital purposes and everything. I'm not going to 567 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:10,319 Speaker 1: sit here and say this is there's a lot of 568 00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:12,560 Speaker 1: flaws to this day and how the Freedom of Information 569 00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:16,120 Speaker 1: Act requests work. I have certainly you put in foyer 570 00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:20,120 Speaker 1: requests that can take sometimes months, sometimes a year for 571 00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:25,600 Speaker 1: them to fulfill them. But it is about one of 572 00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:28,239 Speaker 1: the few tools we have left, especially when you're dealing 573 00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:32,000 Speaker 1: with an administration that is actively trying to keep the 574 00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:34,680 Speaker 1: press at bay. You know, to me, this what made 575 00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:37,600 Speaker 1: this a timely this week in History and the todcast 576 00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:41,359 Speaker 1: time machine. Is this nonsense that the Pentagon is doing 577 00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:44,600 Speaker 1: at the moment, right we're going to find out. September 578 00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:50,480 Speaker 1: thirty is the deadline that the communications apparachic there at 579 00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:54,799 Speaker 1: the Pentagon put a deadline and said that if reporters 580 00:36:54,840 --> 00:37:03,360 Speaker 1: don't sign this pledge, essentially to not report on items 581 00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:07,320 Speaker 1: that weren't pre approved, right not report on classified information 582 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:10,920 Speaker 1: that was not pre approved or given to access that 583 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:13,640 Speaker 1: they essentially would be restricted from doing any reporting on 584 00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:20,040 Speaker 1: the Pentagon. So far, the good news is, according to 585 00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:23,960 Speaker 1: my friend Oliver Darcy, who does a terrific media newsletter 586 00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:29,920 Speaker 1: you should subscribe to it, that not a single serious 587 00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:32,680 Speaker 1: outlet has agreed to sign this pledge. The Washington Post 588 00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:35,760 Speaker 1: and The Times have already issued public statements. Fox News, 589 00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:39,920 Speaker 1: where Pete Hegseth used to work, has privately signaled they 590 00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:42,400 Speaker 1: will not agree to the terms that the Pentagon is 591 00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:46,760 Speaker 1: putting out there. So we'll see what happens on September thirtieth. 592 00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:53,080 Speaker 1: But this there's a whole movement to restrict access to 593 00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:57,319 Speaker 1: government decisions. You know, I was disappointed to see Justice 594 00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:00,200 Speaker 1: amy Cony Barrett last week in an interview that she 595 00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:04,560 Speaker 1: gave where she said she she gave an explanation for 596 00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:10,279 Speaker 1: why she won't put in writing why she chooses to 597 00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:13,680 Speaker 1: recuse on specific issues, because she's recused a few times, 598 00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:16,600 Speaker 1: and she said one reason she chooses not to explain 599 00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:19,960 Speaker 1: why she recuses herself from certain Supreme Court cases for 600 00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:22,080 Speaker 1: ethics reasons is because she doesn't want her friends or 601 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:27,000 Speaker 1: family to face unwanted public attention. Threats are worse. It's 602 00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:30,640 Speaker 1: I will say this, that's not an unwarranted problem, right, 603 00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:34,560 Speaker 1: And this is this gets at to our societal our 604 00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:37,759 Speaker 1: sort of societal problem of wanting to dox anybody we 605 00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:42,440 Speaker 1: disagree with and think that we can create shame, shame, shame, 606 00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:46,560 Speaker 1: these you know, these public displays of theater that the 607 00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:48,800 Speaker 1: left and the right will do it at different times 608 00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:53,600 Speaker 1: when they like to dox people online. You know, I 609 00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:58,640 Speaker 1: think that that So while I have empathy for Justice 610 00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:02,120 Speaker 1: Barrett in her ration now for not explaining yourself, we 611 00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:08,840 Speaker 1: cannot have a democracy if are if the folks executing 612 00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:13,160 Speaker 1: different aspects of the democracy refuse to explain themselves or 613 00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:17,160 Speaker 1: refuse to allow the press access to explain themselves. Right, 614 00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:20,960 Speaker 1: whether it's the Pentagon trying you know, because Pete Hegseth 615 00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:23,960 Speaker 1: is afraid of bad press. He doesn't get any good press, 616 00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:25,880 Speaker 1: you know, maybe out of look in the mirror, not 617 00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:28,560 Speaker 1: just always blame somebody else and always blame a leaker 618 00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:34,439 Speaker 1: in all this business. Or the Supreme Court somehow thinks 619 00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:38,239 Speaker 1: they shouldn't have to explain themselves. And you know, you 620 00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:40,560 Speaker 1: use safety and it's not an in I'm not going 621 00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:43,080 Speaker 1: to sit here and say this isn't Look we live 622 00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:47,680 Speaker 1: in this toxic social media society right now that is 623 00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:53,520 Speaker 1: certainly allowed for the quick spread of defamatory material against people. Right. 624 00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:57,800 Speaker 1: The ability to character assassinate somebody these days in public 625 00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:01,920 Speaker 1: has never been easier, never been greater. So I empathize 626 00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:04,560 Speaker 1: with that as somebody who's been character assassinated, you know, 627 00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:07,840 Speaker 1: from Tucker Carlson's done it, Donald Trump's done it. You know, 628 00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:12,279 Speaker 1: I haven't filed any defamation lawsuits. Perhaps I should, but 629 00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:16,600 Speaker 1: that's not that's not how I I sort of I 630 00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:19,360 Speaker 1: still have this crazy naive belief that I sort of 631 00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:23,560 Speaker 1: trust the public to figure out, you know, if somebody's squealing, 632 00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:27,720 Speaker 1: if if they're spending time attacking my character as a reporter, 633 00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:30,640 Speaker 1: they really are. What are they afraid of? Right? What 634 00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:32,920 Speaker 1: are they spooked by? Why is it that they're so 635 00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:36,480 Speaker 1: intent on trying to smear somebody like me who's not 636 00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:41,640 Speaker 1: an elected official, And it's because they're afraid that of 637 00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:45,719 Speaker 1: the truth or the facts that that people like me 638 00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:49,400 Speaker 1: are the job that they're doing. I still trust the 639 00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:52,880 Speaker 1: public to sort of figure that out over time. I 640 00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:57,759 Speaker 1: know it. There's a lot of a lot of I'm 641 00:40:57,800 --> 00:40:59,520 Speaker 1: not going to call it partisan Washington, I'll call it 642 00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:02,799 Speaker 1: brain wash. I'll call it partisan washing where you're just 643 00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:06,640 Speaker 1: more inclined. Right. We see it when this terrible debate 644 00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:09,160 Speaker 1: we're having over who's to blame for the rise of 645 00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:13,759 Speaker 1: political violence, it's called all of us are to blame. Right, 646 00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:16,279 Speaker 1: And if we sit here and trying to say yeah, 647 00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:20,440 Speaker 1: but yeah, but yeah, but we're going to get nowhere, 648 00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:22,439 Speaker 1: we're not going to solve the problem, and we're likely 649 00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:26,759 Speaker 1: radicalizing more people, not less. And that's where that's sort 650 00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:30,960 Speaker 1: of partisan sort of tone washing of the brain that 651 00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:35,279 Speaker 1: we've seen quite a few people find themselves in. And 652 00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:38,359 Speaker 1: it turns out it's a bipartisan virus. Right when your 653 00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:41,239 Speaker 1: side's out of power, you're more likely to believe nonsense, 654 00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:46,560 Speaker 1: conspiratorial nonsense, or all sorts of defammatory nonsense than when 655 00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:52,799 Speaker 1: your party's in power. But anyway, October fifth, I just 656 00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:56,400 Speaker 1: ranted about how Congress is feckless and went out of 657 00:41:56,400 --> 00:42:00,680 Speaker 1: its way to be more dysfunctional with this madness of 658 00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:06,719 Speaker 1: essentially creating the conditions that allow for government shutdowns. This 659 00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:09,520 Speaker 1: was a case where Congress for this brief period of 660 00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:13,719 Speaker 1: time where they were scared shitless of you, the voter right. 661 00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:17,280 Speaker 1: Notice when they did this veto override one month before 662 00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:21,560 Speaker 1: election day nineteen seventy four. But they put the public's 663 00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:25,719 Speaker 1: interest ahead of the politicians interests in that period of time. 664 00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:29,360 Speaker 1: Doesn't happen very often. It took one of the worst 665 00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:39,279 Speaker 1: scandals and sending thousands to die under unusual circumstances of 666 00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:41,719 Speaker 1: the Vietnam Wars. We had back to back sort of 667 00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:46,640 Speaker 1: massive trust issues, and it got Congress to actually look 668 00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:49,880 Speaker 1: out for the public's access to records and all of 669 00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:52,399 Speaker 1: those things. We're only going to be healthier the more 670 00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:55,760 Speaker 1: we know, not the less we know on this front. 671 00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:13,680 Speaker 1: All right, So let's get back out of my time 672 00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:20,319 Speaker 1: machine and let's take a few questions ask Chuck. We 673 00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:24,000 Speaker 1: are going to start with Charles W who says I'm 674 00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:27,520 Speaker 1: part of the Utah diaspora in Chicago, Land Go utes 675 00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:31,279 Speaker 1: the other you. I won't get into that too much. Hey, Chuck, 676 00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:33,440 Speaker 1: just listen to your interview about Black Moses and Oklahoma. 677 00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:35,880 Speaker 1: Regarding your question about what would have happened if Oklahoma 678 00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:38,399 Speaker 1: had succeeded as black state, I couldn't help think about 679 00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:41,480 Speaker 1: the Mormon pioneers in Utah. Had African Americans who moved 680 00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:44,799 Speaker 1: to Oklahoma been allowed to govern without interference, they may 681 00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:47,439 Speaker 1: have been able to Eventually, like the LDS Americans did 682 00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:50,920 Speaker 1: better integrate into the rest of society. A big difference, though, 683 00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:53,280 Speaker 1: is that the pioneers were for the most part white. 684 00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:56,960 Speaker 1: Referring to the LDS Pioneers, Thus, once the main body 685 00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:59,719 Speaker 1: of the church abandoned polygamy, they were more able to 686 00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:01,439 Speaker 1: blend in with the rest of the country in ways 687 00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:04,160 Speaker 1: that Black Americans weren't unable to do. Love the podcast, 688 00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:09,359 Speaker 1: thanks for always having hosting interesting discussions. Look, I I 689 00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:15,360 Speaker 1: it's a. It's a it's an interesting thought that I 690 00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:16,800 Speaker 1: wouldn't have come up with not a member of the 691 00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:21,280 Speaker 1: LDS church, but it's a. It's a it's an interesting thesis. 692 00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:26,279 Speaker 1: And you know, just watching Utah politicians today, right and 693 00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:30,960 Speaker 1: which ones are more principal than not, it is fascinating 694 00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:36,200 Speaker 1: to watch how much character still counts in the LDS community, 695 00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:41,840 Speaker 1: more so than really any other religious community. UH doesn't 696 00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:47,719 Speaker 1: seem to prioritize character the way, at least as far 697 00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:50,320 Speaker 1: as voting has been concerned, and that during the Trump ras, 698 00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:53,000 Speaker 1: it's the Mormon community appears to be doing. It's been. 699 00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:55,440 Speaker 1: It's been fascinating on that front. I think a lot 700 00:44:55,520 --> 00:45:00,040 Speaker 1: of us should want to learn and understand how that 701 00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:02,920 Speaker 1: that is. I I've always gotten a sense, both with 702 00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:08,480 Speaker 1: the Mormon Church and my experience in Judaism, is that 703 00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:12,520 Speaker 1: there's there's always been an aspect of both faith that 704 00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:18,560 Speaker 1: that push being involved in civil civil society and getting 705 00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:23,120 Speaker 1: involved politically and getting involved, you know, as part of 706 00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:27,399 Speaker 1: the larger community. Now, part of it is that when 707 00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:30,840 Speaker 1: you know you're a minority, you're you're almost trying to 708 00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:35,399 Speaker 1: fit in, versus maybe when you're trying to govern, when 709 00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:38,080 Speaker 1: you think you're the majority, you don't care about those 710 00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:40,799 Speaker 1: that are trying to fit in as much. So I've 711 00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:43,839 Speaker 1: also wondered about that aspect as well. But anyway, that's 712 00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:46,200 Speaker 1: just I appreciate the comment. It was more comment than 713 00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:52,600 Speaker 1: question there, but it's it's worth worth more more thought, 714 00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:55,319 Speaker 1: that's for sure. Next question comes from Kim t hey Chack, 715 00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:59,120 Speaker 1: longtime listener and fan of the brilliantly named Toodcast, who 716 00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:01,280 Speaker 1: came up with that the way as my friend John Reese, 717 00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:04,800 Speaker 1: my old producer me the press. It was his idea, 718 00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:07,759 Speaker 1: and boy was he's smart about it, because guess who 719 00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:10,360 Speaker 1: got to keep his podcast from when I left NBC 720 00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:14,480 Speaker 1: the guy whose name was the podcast. Anyway, after forty 721 00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:16,879 Speaker 1: years in TV marketing, I follow analyst closely and wonder 722 00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:20,040 Speaker 1: about the rights scrambled to re Jerrymander already Jerrymander District. 723 00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:22,680 Speaker 1: Are the basic new maps on Trump's higher Black and 724 00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:27,439 Speaker 1: Hispanic vote share in twenty twenty four narrator insertion here, Yes, 725 00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:30,839 Speaker 1: they are assuming those gains are permanent. If so, isn't 726 00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:33,320 Speaker 1: there a risk that those voters disappointed by his record 727 00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:37,879 Speaker 1: could swing back and make those maps misfire Kim. This 728 00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:40,759 Speaker 1: is the political experiment they're doing in Texas. This is 729 00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:45,280 Speaker 1: exactly what look. They believe that this move, this shift 730 00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:48,760 Speaker 1: to the right by Latinos in South Texas is permanent 731 00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:52,799 Speaker 1: after basically one and a half election cycles. I say, what, 732 00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:55,920 Speaker 1: you know, it's been a slow drift, but then obviously 733 00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:58,880 Speaker 1: we saw a big, huge shift over basically about a 734 00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:05,680 Speaker 1: two and a half year period. Good luck, you know, 735 00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:08,359 Speaker 1: we're going to find out. There's been a lot of 736 00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:16,920 Speaker 1: interesting qualitative research, meaning focus groups, not the quantitative like 737 00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:22,440 Speaker 1: poles that suggests that Trump's new Latino supporters are not 738 00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:26,800 Speaker 1: happy with Trump's economy. And ultimately, you know, what was 739 00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:30,719 Speaker 1: the mistake that the Democrats made with Latino voters not 740 00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:35,520 Speaker 1: focusing on the economy first, but focusing on issues that 741 00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:37,400 Speaker 1: didn't weren't always at the top of the list for 742 00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:41,440 Speaker 1: many Latino Americans or Americans of Latino descent. That was immigration. 743 00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:48,440 Speaker 1: But the dual issues of this poor economy and the 744 00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:53,040 Speaker 1: unfair targeting of Latino Americans, meaning quite a few Latino 745 00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:57,680 Speaker 1: American citizens have been scooped up by ice accidentally, and 746 00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:01,919 Speaker 1: those stories are all over the place. Anybody that has 747 00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:07,839 Speaker 1: Latino relatives probably already has a story I do. And 748 00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:13,920 Speaker 1: now once they prove their citizenship, they were let go. 749 00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:18,279 Speaker 1: But since when did we have a society of show 750 00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:21,360 Speaker 1: us your papers just based on where you're traveling or 751 00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:24,279 Speaker 1: who you look or who you might look like. So 752 00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:28,239 Speaker 1: that's not playing well with some Latino voters. But this 753 00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:32,520 Speaker 1: economy is really hard for working class people. This is 754 00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:36,200 Speaker 1: a you know, this is one of those it's an 755 00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:40,839 Speaker 1: inequality economy. Right now, if you're well off, you're more 756 00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:44,960 Speaker 1: well off. If you've got some PAD, you might have 757 00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:50,040 Speaker 1: more PAD now, but prices are still super high. Prices 758 00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:53,399 Speaker 1: are going up, not down, almost across the board. New 759 00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:57,640 Speaker 1: tariffs just kicked in October first. We're going to have 760 00:48:57,719 --> 00:48:59,920 Speaker 1: even more tariffs. How about that? You're going to de 761 00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:02,400 Speaker 1: what of us? A government shutdown and raised prices on 762 00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:09,040 Speaker 1: baby furniture on October first? Good luck Trump, Republicans thinking 763 00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:11,600 Speaker 1: you're going to continue to win this same group of 764 00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:15,719 Speaker 1: working class voters who voted for you because they liked 765 00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:19,360 Speaker 1: that economy they had in the first Trump term, the 766 00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:24,879 Speaker 1: inherited economy that Trump inherited from Obama and then COVID. 767 00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:29,480 Speaker 1: You know, we know COVID supply chains who knows how long, 768 00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:33,040 Speaker 1: but we haven't really had a Trump economy until now. 769 00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:37,400 Speaker 1: This is Trump's economy, his designed economy. That economy he 770 00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:41,160 Speaker 1: presided over in his first term was an inherited economy. Right, 771 00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:43,920 Speaker 1: he didn't get his tax cut didn't kick in until essentially, 772 00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:47,520 Speaker 1: you know, six months before COVID, you know, raked havoc. 773 00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:49,880 Speaker 1: We still don't know whether his tax cuts would have 774 00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:51,959 Speaker 1: been good or bad for the economy because they didn't 775 00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:59,120 Speaker 1: have a chance to do that. So you're raising prices 776 00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:03,440 Speaker 1: on a lot of goods and ser services. Kim, I am. 777 00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:07,600 Speaker 1: I'm fascinated to see whether the Jerry manner in Texas 778 00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:13,160 Speaker 1: becomes a dummy mander because of their false hope that 779 00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:18,120 Speaker 1: these swing voters are not swinging anymore. I think these 780 00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:22,600 Speaker 1: voters or swing voters, and I think for quite a 781 00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:26,040 Speaker 1: few cycles, you're going to have to be making the 782 00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:31,320 Speaker 1: case to Latino voters or voters of Latino descent election 783 00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:34,520 Speaker 1: by election, and not hope that you somehow they become 784 00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:38,520 Speaker 1: permanent members of your coalition. Next question comes from Connor M. 785 00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:41,920 Speaker 1: A big fan of the show. I used to manage 786 00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:43,759 Speaker 1: restaurants and now I'm lucky enough to be a stay 787 00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:46,880 Speaker 1: at home husband and soon dad congrats, which gives me 788 00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:50,080 Speaker 1: more time to cook, read and listen. Your podcast is 789 00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:53,480 Speaker 1: a favorite in the kitchen, all right, man, after my 790 00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:57,160 Speaker 1: own heart. I like to cook and claim with a 791 00:50:57,200 --> 00:50:58,799 Speaker 1: podcast in my ear as well. My wife and I 792 00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:01,120 Speaker 1: are currently living in Morocco and vote absentee, but I 793 00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:04,719 Speaker 1: wonder house Americans abroad can stay civically engaged or help 794 00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:07,840 Speaker 1: shape change back home. I also can't resist asking about 795 00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:10,240 Speaker 1: my Sooners. What you take on Oklahoma's top ten Sooners 796 00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:12,600 Speaker 1: and their defense this year well, I appreciate that Connor 797 00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:15,719 Speaker 1: and I do have a strong opinion about OU. I 798 00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:21,600 Speaker 1: have less strong opinion. But look, voters abroad both I know, 799 00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:24,440 Speaker 1: the Democrats and the Republicans do try to out do 800 00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:27,920 Speaker 1: if you're registered with either of the two major parties, 801 00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:33,520 Speaker 1: they do try to activate Americans abroad, but frankly they 802 00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:38,399 Speaker 1: just try to activate them for financial reasons. It's it's 803 00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:40,960 Speaker 1: I think a little bit harder to be activated in 804 00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:45,800 Speaker 1: other ways. But I guess I would encourage you know, you, 805 00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:49,560 Speaker 1: you know, I it depends on where you're what you're 806 00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:54,000 Speaker 1: looking to do. Is it the structural small d democratic reform? 807 00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:57,440 Speaker 1: Is it you know, to break up the duopoly? Is 808 00:51:57,440 --> 00:52:00,439 Speaker 1: it to get independent? You know, to open primaries, rank 809 00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:03,120 Speaker 1: choice voting. You know, to me, there's sort of a 810 00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:06,600 Speaker 1: different types of activism. You may believe that, hey, it's 811 00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:09,600 Speaker 1: time for the Democratic Party get its act together and 812 00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:13,120 Speaker 1: make them a more viable alternative. That's a place to go. 813 00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:15,520 Speaker 1: Maybe you want to try to work from the inside 814 00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:18,720 Speaker 1: and make the Republican Party a small sea conservative party again. 815 00:52:19,239 --> 00:52:21,640 Speaker 1: You know, if you're a small sea conservative, you're there's 816 00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:24,239 Speaker 1: no home for you in the Republicans these days. Maybe 817 00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:27,040 Speaker 1: you want to do work for trying to help with 818 00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:31,200 Speaker 1: a third party like the Forward Party, which has intrigued 819 00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:35,440 Speaker 1: me the most, formerly started by Andrew Yang. Christy Todd Whitman, 820 00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:37,960 Speaker 1: former Republican governor New Jersey's very heavily involved with that 821 00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:42,319 Speaker 1: as well. So I think it really just depends on where. 822 00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:45,320 Speaker 1: You know, what I would say is where's your head 823 00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:49,600 Speaker 1: is it in trying to get involved in party politics 824 00:52:50,239 --> 00:52:53,120 Speaker 1: for the next election or two, or do you want 825 00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:55,480 Speaker 1: to get involved in the sort of the structural reforms 826 00:52:56,239 --> 00:53:00,520 Speaker 1: you know, aspect, because there really are active places to 827 00:53:00,560 --> 00:53:03,760 Speaker 1: be active in both of those entities. You know, there's 828 00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:06,239 Speaker 1: if you're into the sort of the what I call 829 00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:09,799 Speaker 1: the infrastructure reform of our democracy. There's a good group 830 00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:12,000 Speaker 1: called Unite America that I'm a big fan of. They're 831 00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:15,080 Speaker 1: the ones that have that have funding referendum to try 832 00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:19,840 Speaker 1: to they got ranked choice voting to be to be 833 00:53:20,120 --> 00:53:24,600 Speaker 1: accepted in places like Alaska. They're working on other ways 834 00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:26,560 Speaker 1: to try to you know, expand the ballot if you 835 00:53:26,600 --> 00:53:28,720 Speaker 1: will go to a top four system. They've been working 836 00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:32,480 Speaker 1: and collecting petition signatures in different states. Because you know, 837 00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:35,319 Speaker 1: if I think we we've decided It's not whether you 838 00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:37,960 Speaker 1: elect good people or bad people, it's what system do 839 00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:41,520 Speaker 1: you have in place that encourages more voters to have 840 00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:43,400 Speaker 1: a say and who wins or loses, so that we 841 00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:47,160 Speaker 1: can get rid of this sort of partisan exploitation of 842 00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:51,960 Speaker 1: Congress that that has come to dominate our lives. So 843 00:53:52,920 --> 00:53:56,279 Speaker 1: as for your oh you sooners man, I you know, 844 00:53:56,480 --> 00:53:59,080 Speaker 1: maybe you sent this in before the news about matears injury. 845 00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:02,320 Speaker 1: I hope you guys only you know can can stay 846 00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:06,840 Speaker 1: playoff eligible. It's the type of surgery that in theory 847 00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:10,160 Speaker 1: he can come back from. But you guys got to 848 00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:13,799 Speaker 1: get through the Red River rivalry without materir. I was 849 00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:17,040 Speaker 1: really impressed with that Oklahoma d line on what they 850 00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:20,440 Speaker 1: did to Jackson Arnold and in fact, one of my 851 00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:23,319 Speaker 1: favorite I didn't have the bad beat because I was 852 00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:28,360 Speaker 1: on the I was on ou side there. But that 853 00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:32,520 Speaker 1: extra safety if you had Auburn plus five and a 854 00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:36,279 Speaker 1: half and that a late game safety that oh you 855 00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:38,960 Speaker 1: had in that Auburn game that gave you the two 856 00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:42,120 Speaker 1: points that went from five to seven and gave the 857 00:54:42,120 --> 00:54:44,640 Speaker 1: cover to Oklahoma. If you have that now, some of 858 00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:46,759 Speaker 1: us may have put a bet early on Oklahoma to 859 00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:48,759 Speaker 1: cover a four and a half point spread, which was 860 00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:51,440 Speaker 1: the opening line that I got, but it went up 861 00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:53,600 Speaker 1: to five and a half and at that five point margin, 862 00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:57,960 Speaker 1: you know, before the ridiculous blocked field goal for the 863 00:54:58,080 --> 00:55:03,800 Speaker 1: touchdown rams a bad beat of the century with the 864 00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:08,879 Speaker 1: eagle that that big two then, man, I still don't 865 00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:10,600 Speaker 1: know how he got that big old body to go 866 00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:13,400 Speaker 1: eighteen miles an hour. God bless him, but that was 867 00:55:13,719 --> 00:55:17,760 Speaker 1: the worst gambling beat I've ever been involved with personally 868 00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:22,719 Speaker 1: with my money. But before that entity that weekend, I 869 00:55:22,760 --> 00:55:26,000 Speaker 1: would have brought up this Oklahoma Auburn game on that one, 870 00:55:26,320 --> 00:55:28,839 Speaker 1: but I was impressed. Man, the OHU defense is real. 871 00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:31,600 Speaker 1: I'm not sure what to make of Matier just yet, 872 00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:33,640 Speaker 1: but your defense may be good enough that you can 873 00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:36,359 Speaker 1: survive this material injury for a couple of weeks. And 874 00:55:36,719 --> 00:55:38,880 Speaker 1: if he's back by November, you guys say, only have 875 00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:42,400 Speaker 1: one loss, you know, and you can get stay eleven 876 00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:45,320 Speaker 1: and one ten and two with Matier having been injured. 877 00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:47,480 Speaker 1: I think you're at playoff spot. I'll tell you this. 878 00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:51,160 Speaker 1: I don't want Carson beckdaff to face your defensive line, 879 00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:54,080 Speaker 1: so we shall see, all right, last question, then I 880 00:55:54,160 --> 00:55:57,799 Speaker 1: will take a break for forty eight hours. And this 881 00:55:57,880 --> 00:56:02,160 Speaker 1: comes from Maryland K from blue Bell, Pennsylvania. She writes, 882 00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:04,600 Speaker 1: I'm a devoted fan, watched you on NBC and MSNBC 883 00:56:04,719 --> 00:56:07,040 Speaker 1: all the time and followed you quickly to your podcast. 884 00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:09,080 Speaker 1: I appreciate that it sounds like you're doing well, and 885 00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:11,520 Speaker 1: I hope that's true. I was listening to today's referring 886 00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:15,200 Speaker 1: to the September twenty fifth episode so our Thursday Upload podcast, 887 00:56:16,120 --> 00:56:18,000 Speaker 1: and you were certain that people are going to get 888 00:56:18,040 --> 00:56:20,839 Speaker 1: fired tired of Trump, but we still have a lot 889 00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:23,799 Speaker 1: of work to do pull our institutions back into the sunlight. Chuck, 890 00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:26,120 Speaker 1: where do you get this optimism from? Nobody I know 891 00:56:26,239 --> 00:56:28,640 Speaker 1: has it. I would love to hear from you why 892 00:56:28,719 --> 00:56:32,280 Speaker 1: you feel confident about this, because it'll help me a lot. Well, Maryland, 893 00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:34,719 Speaker 1: first of all, just look at the polling right it's 894 00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:38,600 Speaker 1: you know, the thing with Trump and what people. We 895 00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:44,719 Speaker 1: went through this once and the public spoke right when 896 00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:47,560 Speaker 1: they got a chance to express their views on the 897 00:56:47,600 --> 00:56:50,640 Speaker 1: Trump era. They voted out Republicans in the House and 898 00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:54,800 Speaker 1: voted Democrats into the House at eighteen and they voted 899 00:56:54,840 --> 00:56:57,239 Speaker 1: Trump out in one of the largest turnouts we had 900 00:56:57,280 --> 00:57:03,040 Speaker 1: in American history. Now, the question was that I think 901 00:57:03,120 --> 00:57:07,680 Speaker 1: Democrats answered incorrectly, which was why did they throw Trump out? 902 00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:11,600 Speaker 1: Democrats acted as if they had a mandate. They didn't 903 00:57:11,600 --> 00:57:15,000 Speaker 1: have a mandate to do what they did. They had 904 00:57:15,040 --> 00:57:18,720 Speaker 1: a mandate to settle the country down, turn the temperature down, 905 00:57:19,520 --> 00:57:26,160 Speaker 1: and stabilize things right, stop the roller coaster. When you look, 906 00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:31,760 Speaker 1: none of his even the issue where he's most popular, 907 00:57:31,960 --> 00:57:39,240 Speaker 1: immigration he's got He's less popular than he was on 908 00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:44,160 Speaker 1: that issue because of how he's executing the policies. Look, uh, 909 00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:46,600 Speaker 1: let me go through other parts of the of the 910 00:57:47,680 --> 00:57:50,800 Speaker 1: Quidnipiac poll for you. That will, I think give you 911 00:57:50,840 --> 00:57:55,760 Speaker 1: a sense that the country doesn't like what Trump is 912 00:57:55,840 --> 00:57:58,920 Speaker 1: doing and they're not gonna want on this roller coaster. 913 00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:02,440 Speaker 1: His job rating sitting at thirty eight percent. Now Quitepiac, 914 00:58:03,640 --> 00:58:07,040 Speaker 1: I think always says a slightly dem heavy sample. When 915 00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:11,240 Speaker 1: I say slightly two or three points. So if he's 916 00:58:11,240 --> 00:58:14,200 Speaker 1: thirty eight and quit a pact, I think if this 917 00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:16,440 Speaker 1: were an election day voter, Paul, he'd still be in 918 00:58:16,480 --> 00:58:19,959 Speaker 1: the low forties. Forty one to forty two percent. That's horrendous. 919 00:58:20,080 --> 00:58:24,640 Speaker 1: That's unelectable numbers for anybody in the Republican Party hoping 920 00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:28,360 Speaker 1: to win in a swing district. He's got a disapproval 921 00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:30,720 Speaker 1: rating of ten percent, double digits in his own party. 922 00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:34,520 Speaker 1: At ten percent, that's not insignificant. Sixty one percent of 923 00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:39,080 Speaker 1: independence disapproved when independents are closer to being Democrats on 924 00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:45,400 Speaker 1: anything when it comes to judging Trump, that tells you 925 00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:47,280 Speaker 1: that this isn't going to go well the next time 926 00:58:47,360 --> 00:58:50,920 Speaker 1: voters have a say. I think what you're experiencing is 927 00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:52,720 Speaker 1: the fact that we're a long way away from our 928 00:58:52,800 --> 00:58:58,120 Speaker 1: next election in Pennsylvania. Right, you don't really get to 929 00:58:58,240 --> 00:59:04,440 Speaker 1: express your anger at this administration until arguably November of 930 00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:07,880 Speaker 1: twenty twenty six. I get that. And so between now 931 00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:15,240 Speaker 1: and then, what do you do locally? You organize, You 932 00:59:16,040 --> 00:59:18,920 Speaker 1: talk to people, You sort of make your case. I mean, 933 00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:21,280 Speaker 1: there's all sorts of things you can you can be 934 00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:25,320 Speaker 1: doing that might make you feel better that you're contributing 935 00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:28,120 Speaker 1: to something. I get it, you're sort of frustrated. I 936 00:59:28,160 --> 00:59:31,240 Speaker 1: get that feeling sometimes myself. Where am I just you know, 937 00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:33,640 Speaker 1: old man yelling at cloud? Right? Am I peeing in 938 00:59:33,640 --> 00:59:35,600 Speaker 1: a hurricane? You know? I love It's one of my 939 00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:40,680 Speaker 1: other favorite expressions to use. But there's all the evidence 940 00:59:40,720 --> 00:59:44,400 Speaker 1: in the world is that this is this is a 941 00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:49,480 Speaker 1: presidency that is exhausting, and it's exhausting in all the 942 00:59:49,520 --> 00:59:53,040 Speaker 1: wrong ways. Now, look, the Democratic Party brand is not great, right, 943 00:59:53,160 --> 00:59:55,440 Speaker 1: The Republican brand's terrible. In this poll, it's thirty eight 944 00:59:55,480 --> 00:59:57,960 Speaker 1: to fifty one. The Democratic brand is worse. It's thirty 945 00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:02,720 Speaker 1: fifty four favorable to unfavorable. Okay, And you know what's 946 01:00:02,720 --> 01:00:06,840 Speaker 1: interesting is it's it's and this is where this is 947 01:00:06,880 --> 01:00:11,160 Speaker 1: why this is likely still a bit the Republicans still 948 01:00:11,160 --> 01:00:15,000 Speaker 1: have a bigger problem here on their brand because among independents, 949 01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:18,000 Speaker 1: independents have a more unfavorable rating of Republicans and they 950 01:00:18,000 --> 01:00:21,640 Speaker 1: do Democrats, even though overall the number is that the 951 01:00:21,680 --> 01:00:25,160 Speaker 1: Democrats have the higher unfavorable rating than the Republicans do 952 01:00:25,240 --> 01:00:31,919 Speaker 1: among independents, that's reversed. Look where self described independence are 953 01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:35,640 Speaker 1: politically is where this country is headed. And what I 954 01:00:35,680 --> 01:00:40,320 Speaker 1: would say is, not only are Democrats upset with this presidency, 955 01:00:40,760 --> 01:00:44,880 Speaker 1: independence are upset with this presidency. It is just not 956 01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:49,080 Speaker 1: being viewed very well at all. Let me give you 957 01:00:49,160 --> 01:00:53,480 Speaker 1: a how about this one? In general? How satisfied are 958 01:00:53,520 --> 01:00:55,360 Speaker 1: you with the way things are going in the nation today? 959 01:00:55,840 --> 01:01:00,800 Speaker 1: Very satisfied, someone satisfied, somewhat dissatisfied, very dissatisfied, satisfied numbers 960 01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:04,720 Speaker 1: fifty one percent, okay, majority of this country very dissatisfied. 961 01:01:04,920 --> 01:01:07,920 Speaker 1: Only thirteen percent are very satisfied. If you added the 962 01:01:07,960 --> 01:01:10,680 Speaker 1: somewhat satisfied to that thirteen percent, you still only have 963 01:01:10,760 --> 01:01:14,680 Speaker 1: thirty four percent who are very satisfied or somewhat satisfied 964 01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:17,760 Speaker 1: with the direction of this country. That's almost all Republicans. 965 01:01:18,360 --> 01:01:21,280 Speaker 1: Eighty three percent of Democrats are very dissatisfied. That doesn't 966 01:01:21,320 --> 01:01:25,680 Speaker 1: surprise me. But fifty seven percent of independence are very dissatisfied. 967 01:01:26,040 --> 01:01:29,200 Speaker 1: All right, Remember what I said, majority of Independences don't 968 01:01:29,200 --> 01:01:35,080 Speaker 1: like the Democratic Party, but they're more dissatisfied about the 969 01:01:35,120 --> 01:01:37,040 Speaker 1: direction of the country than they are the direction of 970 01:01:37,040 --> 01:01:40,400 Speaker 1: either of the two parties on this front. Here's another 971 01:01:40,480 --> 01:01:44,320 Speaker 1: number that if you're wondering, where's the proof that Trump's 972 01:01:44,320 --> 01:01:46,880 Speaker 1: wearing out as welcome? Do you approve it? To disprove 973 01:01:46,880 --> 01:01:49,919 Speaker 1: the way Donald Trump is handing the economy, Fifty six 974 01:01:50,000 --> 01:01:53,600 Speaker 1: percent disapprove, and to me is not surprising. Price of 975 01:01:53,640 --> 01:01:59,400 Speaker 1: coffee shrinkflation, you name it right. Sixty four percent of 976 01:01:59,400 --> 01:02:03,840 Speaker 1: independence disapprove more Independence disapprove of his handling of the 977 01:02:03,880 --> 01:02:07,960 Speaker 1: economy than the number overall. That's a huge deal. He's 978 01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:11,120 Speaker 1: propped up only by Republicans who are saying what they 979 01:02:11,160 --> 01:02:14,720 Speaker 1: believe is the politically correct answer. How about how Donald 980 01:02:14,720 --> 01:02:18,800 Speaker 1: Trump's handling trade? Fifty four percent disapprove of that. Sixty 981 01:02:18,840 --> 01:02:23,160 Speaker 1: percent of Independence disapprove of how he's handling trade. Foreign 982 01:02:23,160 --> 01:02:26,640 Speaker 1: policy fifty three percent disapprove overall. Sixty one percent of 983 01:02:26,640 --> 01:02:31,720 Speaker 1: Independence disapprove of how he's handling foreign policy. How's he 984 01:02:31,760 --> 01:02:35,800 Speaker 1: handling immigration? Fifty five percent disapprove of that. Sixty three 985 01:02:35,880 --> 01:02:39,200 Speaker 1: percent of Independence are on the disapproved side of this. 986 01:02:40,120 --> 01:02:43,680 Speaker 1: You see the pattern here. It is repeated over and over, 987 01:02:43,800 --> 01:02:46,680 Speaker 1: and this isn't the only poll. Okay, we can argue 988 01:02:46,760 --> 01:02:49,320 Speaker 1: is it two points higher or lower? Depending on is 989 01:02:49,360 --> 01:02:51,840 Speaker 1: your sample slightly you know, should it be a point 990 01:02:51,920 --> 01:02:54,919 Speaker 1: less democratic or whatever? And I could one thing about 991 01:02:54,960 --> 01:02:58,000 Speaker 1: Quinnybee because they're consistent. So the trend line helps you. 992 01:02:58,080 --> 01:03:01,760 Speaker 1: But the point is there is there is not a 993 01:03:01,840 --> 01:03:04,560 Speaker 1: single thing that is polling well for him right now. 994 01:03:05,160 --> 01:03:07,520 Speaker 1: Not a single thing. Oh let me throw in this. 995 01:03:08,120 --> 01:03:10,680 Speaker 1: Do you support our opposed having vaccine requirements for children 996 01:03:10,720 --> 01:03:14,439 Speaker 1: attending public schools, sixty seven percent believe we should have that. 997 01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:18,480 Speaker 1: Seventy percent of Independence believe we should have that, but 998 01:03:18,520 --> 01:03:22,800 Speaker 1: a plurality of Republicans don't. I mean, nearly seventy percent 999 01:03:22,800 --> 01:03:24,960 Speaker 1: of Americans think we should, but forty six percent of 1000 01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:27,640 Speaker 1: Republicans think we shouldn't. You see where I'm going here. 1001 01:03:28,080 --> 01:03:33,200 Speaker 1: I understand why you're pessimist. I get it right. There is, 1002 01:03:33,440 --> 01:03:37,600 Speaker 1: for whatever reason, the elected Republicans of today refuse to 1003 01:03:37,640 --> 01:03:41,680 Speaker 1: push back on their own on this party. And you 1004 01:03:41,680 --> 01:03:43,400 Speaker 1: know this is this the world of the way the 1005 01:03:43,400 --> 01:03:46,320 Speaker 1: two parties are. It's why I think the two parties 1006 01:03:46,320 --> 01:03:50,240 Speaker 1: are a bit lost, because they're they're both reacting. They're 1007 01:03:50,360 --> 01:03:55,920 Speaker 1: both behaving as reactionary parties, which means they simply stand 1008 01:03:56,000 --> 01:03:58,480 Speaker 1: up for anybody on their side, no matter how flawed 1009 01:03:58,680 --> 01:04:02,920 Speaker 1: or crooked they are, and just point then say all 1010 01:04:02,960 --> 01:04:06,440 Speaker 1: the problems are the fault of the other side. We're 1011 01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:08,760 Speaker 1: never going to get anywhere if we keep doing that. 1012 01:04:09,120 --> 01:04:11,840 Speaker 1: And Independence essentially are the ones going, well, you guys 1013 01:04:11,880 --> 01:04:14,000 Speaker 1: shouldn't be in power. I'll put you guys in. Oh 1014 01:04:14,080 --> 01:04:16,520 Speaker 1: you suck, I'm gonna put you guys in. But the 1015 01:04:16,600 --> 01:04:20,480 Speaker 1: point is this is an unhappy electorate. Okay, I know 1016 01:04:20,640 --> 01:04:23,480 Speaker 1: you don't feel it, but I hope giving you that 1017 01:04:23,800 --> 01:04:27,200 Speaker 1: data that is sitting out there. There is no data 1018 01:04:27,240 --> 01:04:31,240 Speaker 1: out there that's credible that says Donald Trump's presidency is 1019 01:04:31,320 --> 01:04:34,560 Speaker 1: going well. This is not a presidency that is going 1020 01:04:34,640 --> 01:04:38,240 Speaker 1: very well right now, all right, So with that, I 1021 01:04:38,320 --> 01:04:43,440 Speaker 1: will take a forty eight hour break and until then 1022 01:04:43,680 --> 01:04:46,480 Speaker 1: until we upload again. Thanks, as always for listening