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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Law with June Grasso from Bloomberg Radio

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Speaker 1: signing documents on the hood of a Portia, folding card

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Speaker 1: tables set up in a driveway, witnessing remotely through zoom.

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Speaker 1: These are some of the ways a state lawyers are

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Speaker 1: improvising the execution of wills with the need for social

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Speaker 1: distancing and fears of catching the coronavirus. Joining me is

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Speaker 1: Eric Larson, Bloomberg Legal reporter. So, Eric, our state lawyers

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Speaker 1: seeing an uptick in calls and from home. Yes. We

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Speaker 1: spoke with several estate lawyers across the country and all

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Speaker 1: of them said immediately, yes, they had had an uptick

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Speaker 1: and calls, more calls than some of them have experienced

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Speaker 1: in their entire careers coming in in a pretty short

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Speaker 1: period of time. And these are a range of people

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Speaker 1: that they're hearing from, including older, wealthy folks and even

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Speaker 1: working class healthcare professionals. So clearly there's a wide array

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Speaker 1: of people who are concerned about this right now and

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Speaker 1: have been reaching out to get their wills done. So

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Speaker 1: wills have to be signed and witnessed. What are some

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Speaker 1: of the strangest situations you've heard about? Well, the lawyers

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Speaker 1: all had a similar story about how social distancing has

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Speaker 1: made it complicated for them to execute these wills because

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Speaker 1: normally they do meet their clients in person in their

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Speaker 1: offices or sometimes they'll go to their homes. Then they'll

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Speaker 1: they'll witness them sign it, and there will also be

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Speaker 1: at least one other witness who has to watch it happen.

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Speaker 1: And with social distancing, their offices have been closed. Some

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Speaker 1: people are afraid to be out of their houses at all,

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Speaker 1: so they're trying to work around this as much as possible.

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Speaker 1: One lawyer I spoke with met his clients a wealthy

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Speaker 1: couple in their fifties in Long Island. Met them in

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Speaker 1: an empty parking lot. They were both wearing face masks

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Speaker 1: and plastic gloves, and they signed their will on the

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Speaker 1: hood of their Porsche while the lawyer and another law

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Speaker 1: partner watched on as witnesses. And they were wearing masks,

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Speaker 1: and they kept six feet away from me to other,

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Speaker 1: and they were in a hurry to get it done

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Speaker 1: because they were concerned about what could happen. Similar story

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Speaker 1: out in California. Another lawyer has been going to clients

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Speaker 1: with a card table, setting it up in the driveway

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Speaker 1: of their homes doing a similar routine to get the

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Speaker 1: wills signed. One New York State lawyer is using zoom

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Speaker 1: for witnessing. Is that legal, well, it's She told me

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Speaker 1: that it's not specifically legal. It's also not specifically illegal.

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Speaker 1: But the way she sees it as if her clients

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Speaker 1: do unfortunately pass away in the pandemic, then at least

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Speaker 1: she would have something. There would be some evidence that

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Speaker 1: there were witnesses when it was signed, that somebody observed

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Speaker 1: it being signed. Perhaps it was done remotely and over

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Speaker 1: a video, but at least it was done. She says

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Speaker 1: that at least she would be able to sign an

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Speaker 1: affidavit and presented to a judge if she needed to,

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Speaker 1: and that hopefully it would work out if necessary. She

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Speaker 1: did tell me that in these situations that these clients

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Speaker 1: will be allowed to come in when the pandemic passes,

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Speaker 1: and they'll be able to redo everything in person, and

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Speaker 1: she's not going to charge them for that, and then

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Speaker 1: they can do it the right way. That time. That

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Speaker 1: was one of the saddest lines in your story. She said,

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Speaker 1: when the pandemic is over, if all my clients are

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Speaker 1: still alive, I'll have them come in and we'll do

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Speaker 1: it properly. Now, in New York you can have electronic notarization,

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Speaker 1: but that's not true in California, so they have an

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Speaker 1: additional problem there. Correct Out in California, there is another

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Speaker 1: in person human contact you have to have just to

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Speaker 1: have your document notarized, and that really does complicate things

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Speaker 1: for them because again, you know they're in shelter and

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Speaker 1: place out there. How do you meet up with these people?

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Speaker 1: How how urgent is that you get it done? And

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Speaker 1: are you willing to take that risk that you might

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Speaker 1: you know, pick up the virus just in the process

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Speaker 1: of going to get your will notarized, that ironically you

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Speaker 1: do putting yourself at risk in order to get a

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Speaker 1: will executed. And here in New York they are actually

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Speaker 1: pushing to get elector pronic signatures legalized. Unfortunately that hasn't

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Speaker 1: happened yet. Some of the lawyers have told me that

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Speaker 1: the governor should issue an executive order legalizing electronic signatures

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Speaker 1: during the course of the pandemic to allow them to

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Speaker 1: do this more easily. Electronic signatures are already used pretty

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Speaker 1: widely in other areas of law. I mean, I know,

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Speaker 1: when we signed our lease for our apartment here, everything

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Speaker 1: was done electronically. We click on the signature section and

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Speaker 1: it puts our initials in and that's legally accepted in

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Speaker 1: a lot of different areas of law and a lot

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Speaker 1: of different states. How expensive is it to get a

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Speaker 1: will drawn up? I assume it depends on your estate,

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Speaker 1: but even just to get a lawyer on the phone

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Speaker 1: to start drafting a will. Well, the lawyers that we

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Speaker 1: spoke with said their services usually cost dollars. They seem

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Speaker 1: to suggest that there were other services available that came

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Speaker 1: along with that, other documents that people generally get along

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Speaker 1: with their will related to Mexican and if other estate

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Speaker 1: is she is like trust. You know, they try to

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Speaker 1: give a package deal that you get for that amount,

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Speaker 1: but usually does cost a few thousand dollars and it's

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Speaker 1: not necessarily in everyone's budget, whether there's a pandemic or not.

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Speaker 1: And suppose someone drafts a will and signs it, but

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Speaker 1: it hasn't been witnessed. There was an instance in your

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Speaker 1: story where the lawyer said she was hoping that the

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Speaker 1: hospital workers for a patient that was hospitalized, that the

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Speaker 1: hospital workers would witness it. Yeah, that's my understanding and

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Speaker 1: something that I actually wasn't really aware of until we

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Speaker 1: started reporting on this story. Is that witnesses, you know,

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Speaker 1: they can pretty much be anyone as long as they're

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Speaker 1: willing to sign that they were witness and agree that

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Speaker 1: they were a witness, and potentially I suppose to go

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Speaker 1: to court to say that they witnessed it. It doesn't

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Speaker 1: really matter who exactly they are. I was told by

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Speaker 1: one lawyer they generally it shouldn't be someone who's getting

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Speaker 1: something from the will. It's because there could be some

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Speaker 1: conflicts of interests involved there, or someone who could make

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Speaker 1: an allegation about that. But really it's people who are

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Speaker 1: not involved with the will at all, maybe don't even

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Speaker 1: know the clients. Thanks so much, Eric. That's Eric Lawson,

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Legal reporter coming up on Bloomberg Law. A crackdown

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Speaker 1: on those one rolls of toilet paper. If you've been

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Speaker 1: shopping online for toilet paper or hand sanitizer, you may

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Speaker 1: have been priced out by some shocking price gouging going on.

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Speaker 1: Do you really want to pay one hundred dollars for

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Speaker 1: twelve rolls of toilet paper? Well, state law enforcement officials

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Speaker 1: don't want you to pay that, and they're urging Amazon Walmart,

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Speaker 1: eBay and other online sellers to crack down on the

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Speaker 1: price gouging that's preying on people's panic over the coronavirus.

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Speaker 1: Joining me is Malthy Mayak, Bloomberg Legal reporter, So mauthe

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Speaker 1: tell us about some of the price gouging that's been

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Speaker 1: going on online. So we're seeing a lot of complaints

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Speaker 1: coming in across the various states. We did an analysis

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Speaker 1: of over forty steps and we've seen nearly six thousand

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Speaker 1: complaints across a various US states and it appears like

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Speaker 1: New York currently is leading the list with one three

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Speaker 1: fifty complaints. And um, we're seeing all sorts of examples.

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Speaker 1: You know, the ad s offices mostly pointed out home

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Speaker 1: goods or personal care goods, cleaning supplies, UM toilet paper,

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Speaker 1: things like UM livesol and Clorox wipes, disinfectant for your homes,

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Speaker 1: as well as masks and hand sanitizer. I think hand

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Speaker 1: sanitizer is one of the products that tops the list

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Speaker 1: for sure. When I went online to check this out,

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Speaker 1: I found some outrageous prices, but then you couldn't even

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Speaker 1: get them at outrageous prices. For example, can you get

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Speaker 1: even masks so I think that there are some third

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Speaker 1: party sellers. Perhaps you know, the producers of the manufacturers

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Speaker 1: of the products themselves have run out, or stores may

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Speaker 1: have run out of masks, but there are some third

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Speaker 1: party sellers perhaps who's stocked up on these goods and

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Speaker 1: using the online platforms to sell these goods to consumers.

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Speaker 1: We're seeing various other examples, even going beyond the ones

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Speaker 1: that the state ags pointed out. If you just sort

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Speaker 1: of look at hashtag price couging on Twitter just in

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Speaker 1: the last forty eight hours, or saw some really interesting

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Speaker 1: examples of twenty four thaland all tablets being sold on

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Speaker 1: eBay for fifty five dollars, including eight dollars for shipping

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Speaker 1: um Amazon Prime. I saw one user talk about cat

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Speaker 1: food Purina cat Food selling for dollar ten instead of

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Speaker 1: dollar three, which is the typical price. And then there's

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Speaker 1: one mom also talk about diapers being sold on Amazon

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Speaker 1: UM for twenty dollars more than usual. So yeah, so

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Speaker 1: we're seeing all sorts of examples, even going beyond those

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Speaker 1: that you know one would think of um as products

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Speaker 1: that would help protect against the corona iris, like disinfectants

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Speaker 1: and hand sanitizers. So is price gouging illegal. So some

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Speaker 1: states do have laws that say that during emergency situations,

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Speaker 1: sellers can't price goods more than ten percent of the

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Speaker 1: usual rate. But there are some states like Ohio, for instance,

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Speaker 1: that don't have anti price scouging laws. But that's not

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Speaker 1: to say that the Attorney general hasn't taken any action.

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Speaker 1: It looks like Ohio is definitely trying to crack down

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Speaker 1: on predatory sales as well. So what are regulators, for example,

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Speaker 1: in Ohio in New York doing as far as this

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Speaker 1: couging is concerned. How are they policing this. We spoke

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Speaker 1: with a few ads across the various states. In Ohio,

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Speaker 1: they're definitely cracking down. In New York as well. We're

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Speaker 1: seeing a lot of various steps or actions being taken.

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Speaker 1: For instance, the state of Washington has ten investigators that

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Speaker 1: are doing the rounds, going to breckon auto stores and

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Speaker 1: trying to um look at products in the prices. We're

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Speaker 1: looking at season desist letters that the State of Oregon

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Speaker 1: has begun sending out to online stores. So yeah, all

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Speaker 1: sorts of actions in terms of trying to crack down

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Speaker 1: on these practices. Currently to the online platforms have an

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Speaker 1: incentive to self police besides the public good. So you

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Speaker 1: would think that, you know, some of these platforms are

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Speaker 1: responsible in terms of enforcing illegal activities on online marketplaces.

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Speaker 1: And I spoke with an Amazon spokeswoman who said that

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Speaker 1: they're really disappointed in what's going on, and they are

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Speaker 1: trying to put down these listings and suspend accounts when

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Speaker 1: they're seeing third party sellers in dozen such activities. But

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Speaker 1: you know, we do have some who may argue that

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Speaker 1: maybe the online platforms aren't doing enough or they aren't

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Speaker 1: incentivized to um to clap down on such activity because

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Speaker 1: they get a cut from these sales. And these sort

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Speaker 1: of allegations against online platforms happen also when it comes

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Speaker 1: to instances of counterfeit goods in normal times as well.

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Speaker 1: So I guess that, you know, one would expect the

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Speaker 1: online platforms to do more given that currently we're in

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Speaker 1: a pandemic situation and there's so much panic buying going on. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, we're still seeing all these complaints. I think

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Speaker 1: the the online platforms are trying to figure out how

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Speaker 1: best to police this, So we shouldn't expect to see

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Speaker 1: the results of this anytime soon. So I was speaking

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Speaker 1: with the a G of Washington State and he talked

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Speaker 1: about how he's seeing a trend of these complaints going up.

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Speaker 1: But he said though that the fact that attorneys general

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Speaker 1: have come out now and are trying to sort of

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Speaker 1: create awareness around this issue, more and more complaints are

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Speaker 1: coming in and that's helping them take more action. Now

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Speaker 1: you're seeing, for instance, even a hotline that the state

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Speaker 1: of or Can has set up Washington. For instance, it

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Speaker 1: is encouraging consumers to send in pictures of screenshots of

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Speaker 1: goods on product shows or screenshots from their full now

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Speaker 1: Amazon and e b and others online market place listing.

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Speaker 1: Thanks multi, that's multi. Mayak, Bloomberg Legal reporter. Turning out

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Speaker 1: of the federal courts. Federal courts are tackling the threat

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Speaker 1: of coronavirus by making scheduling changes, encouraging electronics filing, and

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Speaker 1: restricting access Settle courts are tackling the threat of coronavirus

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Speaker 1: by making scheduling changes, encouraging electronics filing, and restricting access

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Speaker 1: to facilities, among other things. Joining me is Madison Alder,

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Law reporter. So Maddie tell us more about how

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Speaker 1: the federal courts are handling this sedtle. Courts are very decentralized.

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Speaker 1: You know, we have the US Office of the Courts

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Speaker 1: and they do a lot of the administrative work. Uh,

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Speaker 1: they can send out guidance, which they have. They have

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Speaker 1: established a tough worse but that can only go so far.

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Speaker 1: Courts have a lot of autonomy over what their court does,

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Speaker 1: and we've seen in different areas that are impacted differently

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Speaker 1: by this virus, those courts responding in various ways. So,

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Speaker 1: for example, the Western District of Washington was one of

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Speaker 1: the first courts to respond to this than the Ninth

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Speaker 1: Circuit the Southern District of New York, where we've seen

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Speaker 1: larger outbreaks. Those courts have been first, and their orders

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Speaker 1: can range anything from increasing sanitation, you know, telling courtgoers

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Speaker 1: if you've been to these countries that have been severely

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Speaker 1: impacted by coronavirus, don't come in if you're feeling food

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Speaker 1: like symptoms, all the way to restricting court access to

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Speaker 1: the public holding oral arguments via telephone. We just saw

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Speaker 1: this in the DC Circuit on Friday, and I think

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Speaker 1: we were going to see more of that in a

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Speaker 1: lot more of these areas as they get more heavily impacted.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna see a lot more teleconferencing, They're going to

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Speaker 1: see a lot more cases potentially being impacted by these decisions.

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Speaker 1: How did it go in the d C circuit with

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Speaker 1: the those overal arguments. So our reporter, our health reporter,

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Speaker 1: Lydia Wheeler was listening in at home and covering it,

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Speaker 1: and she was updating people live on Twitter that two

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Speaker 1: of the judges on the case actually were booted off

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Speaker 1: off of the call while they were going through this case.

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Speaker 1: And it was actually Judge Griffith was booted off for

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Speaker 1: a few minutes. So it'll be interesting to see if

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Speaker 1: we have some of those technical difficulties that will continue

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Speaker 1: to happen over over these next few weeks or months,

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Speaker 1: however long this goes on for. And are any of

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Speaker 1: the courts closed completely? The only courts that I know

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Speaker 1: of that are closed completely our immigration courts. There are

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Speaker 1: certain immigration courts that are completely shut down in wants

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Speaker 1: to the virus. But immigration courts aren't Article free courts

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Speaker 1: or Article three of the Constitution. That's where a lot

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Speaker 1: of the sort of the district courts are. That's where

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Speaker 1: the fecal appeals courts are. They are unto the d J,

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Speaker 1: so they're under the purview of an office there. Several

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Speaker 1: of them now, A handful of them in larger cities

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Speaker 1: have been closed due to the public health risks that

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Speaker 1: they posed by putting a lot of people in the

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Speaker 1: same room together. Um, a lot of people in waiting rooms,

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Speaker 1: an inherently international population of people. So those are the

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Speaker 1: only ones I know of that are closed out right.

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Speaker 1: Other courts are merely closed to the public, and you

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Speaker 1: know that really restricted access to the court for people

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Speaker 1: who are arguing there. Um. But I don't know of

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Speaker 1: any court that has completely closed its doors and stopped

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Speaker 1: doing work. So jury try ells seemed to be the

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Speaker 1: opposite of what you should be doing for coronavirus with

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Speaker 1: people in close quarters, sitting next to each other and

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Speaker 1: then going back into a jury room and a lot

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Speaker 1: of people. Are any jury trials going on right now

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Speaker 1: or have they been put on hold? Like everything with

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Speaker 1: the courts, that really is depending on where you are.

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Speaker 1: So some courts have decided to suspend jury trials for

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Speaker 1: the time being. Central District of California they're not going

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Speaker 1: to call juries until April. And you know, other courts

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Speaker 1: are making decisions based on their population, based on the

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Speaker 1: outbreak in their area. But it was interesting last week

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Speaker 1: Judge Claire Egan, the president of the Judicial Conference, which

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Speaker 1: is the policy making body of the federal judiciary, she

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Speaker 1: said that there was a jury trial that was going

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Speaker 1: to proceed in her district and both parties decided to

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Speaker 1: go forward without a jury trial. Jurors had been calling

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Speaker 1: in and asking if they could not have to come

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Speaker 1: in and being a room with people during during this outbreak,

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Speaker 1: So even she said, this is going to be really

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Speaker 1: kind of an interesting thing to watch going forward. Juries

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Speaker 1: could potentially be impacted and it might be hard for

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Speaker 1: courts to get the appropriate age groups of people or

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Speaker 1: our number of people they might need for juries. Are

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Speaker 1: several courts getting any kind of guidance? Yes, the US

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Speaker 1: Office of the Courts, they've developed a plan. At the

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Speaker 1: end of February, they established a task force. They sent

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Speaker 1: out recommended guidance that courts could kind of fill in

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Speaker 1: the blanks on for their particular court. The task forces

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Speaker 1: meeting on a regular basis. Just last week, the Director

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Speaker 1: of the U S Courts, James Duff, sent out a

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Speaker 1: letter to courts with recommended guidelines. But the interesting thing

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Speaker 1: about the courts is that US Administrative Office of the

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Speaker 1: Courts can only do so much, and it really takes

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Speaker 1: the courts themselves to make those decisions and determinations. The U. S.

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Speaker 1: Courts can recommend specific guidelines, but the courts are ultimately

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Speaker 1: the ones that will decide whether or not they actually

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Speaker 1: take them. Thanks Maddie. That's Madison Alder, Bloomberg Law reporter

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Speaker 1: H