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Speaker 1: David Kleiner as our guest. He resides in the Greater

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Speaker 1: Brinham area. Now. His son's the head football coach at

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Speaker 1: Somerville High School. His other son is the offensive coordinator there.

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Speaker 1: You probably remember the name if you've been in Houston

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Speaker 1: or followed football for very long. He was a star

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Speaker 1: quarterback at the University of Houston in the early nineties.

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Speaker 1: He was third runner up for second runner up for

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Speaker 1: the Heisman Trophy. First round draft pick of the Cincinnati

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Speaker 1: Bengals ended up going to the Raiders, but his elbow

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Speaker 1: was blown by then and came home and decided he

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Speaker 1: really wanted to learn the Bible, and now he teaches

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Speaker 1: others and teaches people how to learn the Bible. He,

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Speaker 1: of course, in the meantime, went and got a PhD

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Speaker 1: at Seminary in theology. David, let me ask you a question.

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Speaker 1: You were talking earlier about theological studies and the types

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Speaker 1: of people who go there. I have heard it said

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Speaker 1: of people I've known who were Theologians that went to

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Speaker 1: Harvard Divinity's School, that there aren't actually any Christians there,

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Speaker 1: that it's as if it's sort of like you go

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Speaker 1: to a literature school and there's no writers there that

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Speaker 1: there are people who reduce it to something that does

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Speaker 1: not involve any faith. Do you find that to be

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Speaker 1: the case.

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Speaker 2: Yes, well, yeah, we have in our desire to make

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Speaker 2: the Bible more acceptable because of what we were talking

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Speaker 2: in the last session that you know, the Bible calls

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Speaker 2: to suffering. You know, James is going to say, considered,

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Speaker 2: all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials knowing

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Speaker 2: that the testing of your faith works for endurance, and

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Speaker 2: let endurance have it. That's not fun talk right suffering,

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Speaker 2: you know. And so in our desire to make the

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Speaker 2: Bible more appealing, less offensive, more tolerant, more all accepting,

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Speaker 2: we water down the Gospel, We water down the teachings

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Speaker 2: of the Bible. And it's all around us today. But

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Speaker 2: it's not just today. That's always been the case, Paul,

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Speaker 2: from the very beginning. The all of the letters that

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Speaker 2: we see in the New Testament. We're actually in we're

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Speaker 2: having a conference coming up in March fourteenth and fifteenth

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Speaker 2: where we're going to talk about the letters. But all

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Speaker 2: of the letters in the Bible, whether it's Romans or

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Speaker 2: Ephesians or Galatians or whatever it is, these were letters

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Speaker 2: written to people or to the church to address theological

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Speaker 2: issues that have come up that are causing people to change,

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Speaker 2: to compromise. And so every school Princeton, Harvard, so many

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Speaker 2: of our great schools, Yale, they all began as theological institutions.

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Speaker 2: And unfortunately we tend to wander from the faith. And

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Speaker 2: it wouldn't surprise me if even schools that have historically

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Speaker 2: been really good Dallas Seminary or you know, all of

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Speaker 2: these denominations, we're seeing it. They all wander from the

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Speaker 2: faith and compromise, often under the guise of being tolerant

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Speaker 2: and more loving. But what happens is we we change

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Speaker 2: the definitions right of these words. And you see it

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Speaker 2: even in constitutional law and government and these types of things,

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Speaker 2: that if you're allowed to change the definitions, you can

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Speaker 2: make it mean whatever you want, right, And so I

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Speaker 2: see it's.

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Speaker 1: The ultimate O. Right, that's what new speakers about. He

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Speaker 1: gave us the tools to understand this, that words have meaning,

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Speaker 1: and that if you need to change concepts, you simply

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Speaker 1: change words and change meaning. And it's very powerful. You

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Speaker 1: made a reference to the church, and I'm never you know,

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Speaker 1: people like to paint with a broad brush and refer

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Speaker 1: to the black community as if all black people live

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Speaker 1: in a certain neighborhood and make the same amount of

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Speaker 1: money and do the same things. And it's just not true.

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Speaker 1: And so I'm going to paint with a bit of

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Speaker 1: a broadbrush. But when you look at the church today,

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Speaker 1: organized Christianity in the form most of us would identify with,

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Speaker 1: where do you see that as compared to where it was?

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Speaker 1: And what would you most like to change?

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Speaker 2: I tell you know, when we walk down that that's

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Speaker 2: a great question. We walk down the trail of church history.

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Speaker 2: And one of the things that we're doing at our church,

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Speaker 2: Champion Fellowship and Brenham is we are I'm helping us

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Speaker 2: think through the reality the distinction between the church or

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Speaker 2: a church. A church is simply a gathering of believers,

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Speaker 2: and so you know, and so once a you know,

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Speaker 2: a group of believers gathers, we can call it a church.

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Speaker 2: But the Body of Christ, the Body of Christ, is

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Speaker 2: all believers in all places, in all times. At the

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Speaker 2: end of the story, people from every nation, every tribe,

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Speaker 2: every people, every tongue. This is the Body of Christ.

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Speaker 2: And we have so divided the Body of Christ. We're

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Speaker 2: so you know, we have factions Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian, Catholic, Baptist, UH.

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Speaker 2: I prefer to just.

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Speaker 1: Refer to it as Southern Baptist. And the non Christians,

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Speaker 1: well that's me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that we're the only ones who are who are saved, right,

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Speaker 2: We're the only ones who are in And and I

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Speaker 2: love what Paul says to the Corinthians. You know that

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Speaker 2: this is UH, you know, very early one of UH,

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Speaker 2: one of the early letters that Paul writes. And there's

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Speaker 2: divisions in the church at Corinth And and they've divided

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Speaker 2: over following. Some of them are following Paul, some of

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Speaker 2: them are following Apollos, who's the pastor of the church there.

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Speaker 2: Some of them are following Peter, who's the leader of

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Speaker 2: the of the Jews and the church in Jerusalem. And

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Speaker 2: and I love what he says. He says, you know,

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Speaker 2: I hear that there are divisions among you. Some are

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Speaker 2: saying I'm of Paul, or I'm of Apollos, or I'm

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Speaker 2: of Peter or of Christ. And then he asked this question,

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Speaker 2: was Paul crucified for you or were you baptized in

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Speaker 2: the name of Paul? I thank god I didn't baptize

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Speaker 2: any of you, so none of you could say you

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Speaker 2: were baptized in my name right. And then he goes

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Speaker 2: on to say, and this is where the it kind

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Speaker 2: of makes us, you know, Baptists uncomfortable. He says, the

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Speaker 2: Lord didn't send me to baptize, but to preach the Gospel.

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Speaker 2: And so he goes on to explain in this whole

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Speaker 2: letter that everything he does is to build up the

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Speaker 2: body of Christ. And so we do great error when

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Speaker 2: we fail to recognize that all believers in all places,

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Speaker 2: in all times, in all churches, and none of us

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Speaker 2: have the you know, we're all heretics in the sense

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Speaker 2: that we all believe false doctrine, and we just don't

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Speaker 2: know what the false doctrine is that we're believing. And

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Speaker 2: so that's what we've got to go back to the

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Speaker 2: scriptures all of the time to make sure that what

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Speaker 2: we're saying is So we've got to be bereans. And

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Speaker 2: I think that you've got to have a lot of

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Speaker 2: humility when you come to the scriptures and put yourself

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Speaker 2: under the authority of the text, not under the authority

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Speaker 2: of a teacher, a Bible teacher, a ministry, even if

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Speaker 2: it's teach me the Bible or whatever it is. We

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Speaker 2: all have to answer to the Lord. And so so

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Speaker 2: you know, the church has always been in some ways

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Speaker 2: a mess because it's human. Church is the bride of Christ, sure,

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Speaker 2: and the church is the bride of Christ, and He

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Speaker 2: gave himself for the church.

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Speaker 3: And so so one of the things that David Cliler

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Speaker 3: is our guest, I'm going to ask him in his

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Speaker 3: teach Me the Bible dot com and teach Me the

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Speaker 3: Bible podcast sort of way to teach me about one

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Speaker 3: of my favorite people in the Bible, and that.

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Speaker 1: Is the apostle.

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Speaker 3: Part to teach me think what she said in Spinish.

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Speaker 2: I just said it's the judge in Spanish, because I

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Speaker 2: feel that she forgets that we're Hispanic and that we're

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Speaker 2: the people.

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Speaker 1: That she targeted for a vote. The Michael Barry Show.

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Speaker 1: David Klingler is our guest. You may remember him as

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Speaker 1: a football star. He went on to get his PhD

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Speaker 1: in theological studies with an expertise in the Old Testament.

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Speaker 1: You can go to teach Me the Bible dot com

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Speaker 1: in a very accessible way to learn about the Bible.

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Speaker 1: He also has a podcast. Those of you always looking

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Speaker 1: for a fun new podcast, and he's our guest of

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Speaker 1: David Klingler. If you would teach me the Bible about Paul.

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Speaker 1: Saul of Tarsus, one of my favorite, one of my

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Speaker 1: favorite people in all the Bible is Uh Saul of

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Speaker 1: Tarsus because of well, for many reasons. But anyway, teach

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Speaker 1: me the Bible about Paul.

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Speaker 2: Uh. What an You know, Paul was a he's a pharisee. Uh.

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Speaker 2: You know, kind of lists his credentials in Philippians chapter three.

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Speaker 2: You know, he was of the tribe of Benjamin, circumcised

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Speaker 2: on the eighth day. He was steadfast in his holding

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Speaker 2: to Judaism, persecution of the church. And and so the

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Speaker 2: thing about Paul is he knew the Old Testament scriptures

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Speaker 2: stone cold. I mean, he knew, he knew the Bible.

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Speaker 2: He knew the Old Testament scriptures. And when he comes

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Speaker 2: to Christ, it just changes everything for him. Uh. And

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Speaker 2: and so he wholly devotes himself to the Lord. And

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Speaker 2: and we were talking in the last segment about the Corinthians,

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Speaker 2: and and and and everything that he does is for

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Speaker 2: the building up of the body of Christ. He explains

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Speaker 2: that we are members of one another. And I love,

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Speaker 2: How he how he sets that out that John says

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Speaker 2: the same thing. It's all bringing a little bit of

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Speaker 2: John here in first John. But how can you say

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Speaker 2: that you love Christ and you haven't seen Uh, none

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Speaker 2: of us have seen Jesus. None of us have heard

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Speaker 2: his voice. We talk about you know, we use that

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Speaker 2: kind of language. You know, I've heard the voice, but

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Speaker 2: you know, but how would you know? Right, Paul was

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Speaker 2: going to say, Look, I don't care if an angel

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Speaker 2: appears in you know, in the room. If if someone

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Speaker 2: appears to you, If an angel appears to you and

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Speaker 2: presents a gospel different than that which I preached, let

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Speaker 2: him be a curse. And you know. And so if

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Speaker 2: we haven't seen Jesus, don't tell me about your love

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Speaker 2: of Jesus. Show me your love of Jesus through your

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Speaker 2: love of his body. That is the Church, the body

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Speaker 2: of Christ. And so we need to be about building

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Speaker 2: up the body of christis everything he does. He sacrifices

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Speaker 2: his whole life, all his credentials, to build up the

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Speaker 2: Body of Christ, to take the gospel to the gentiles.

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Speaker 2: And and boy, he is bold, I mean unbelievably bold,

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Speaker 2: and ultimately goes to his death because of it, just

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Speaker 2: an amazing character.

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Speaker 1: What I find interesting is that perhaps the verses that

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Speaker 1: that I have most really enjoyed diving into and really

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Speaker 1: taking them apart. I like to put take things apart

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Speaker 1: and put them back together, not physical things, but people

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Speaker 1: and in literature and the Bible. And I find that

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Speaker 1: with Paul's letters, I do that. And I didn't know

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Speaker 1: until later that these were letters, that this was a

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Speaker 1: sort of an untraditional, unconventional portion of the Bible. How

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Speaker 1: do you think that affects the books that by that

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Speaker 1: that that are attributed to Paul because they were a

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Speaker 1: letter formed from prison to those those peoples, those churches.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think that that if we if we first

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Speaker 2: remember that they're letters, you'll interpret them correctly. Right we

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Speaker 2: go in. Let's take for example, Paul's letter to Timothy.

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Speaker 2: He writes two letters to Timothy, and he's going to

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Speaker 2: say things. He's going to tell Timothy to do things

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Speaker 2: like look out for ali Xander the coppers myth. Well,

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Speaker 2: I'm not worried about Alexander the coppers myth, you know.

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Speaker 2: And and he says, bring me my cloak imparchments before winter.

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Speaker 2: And I'm not trying to find Paul before winter. I'm

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Speaker 2: not praying for Paul, you know, Paul's you know, but

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Speaker 2: he tells Timothy to do other things that are very

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Speaker 2: applicable to today. And and so when we remember that Paul,

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Speaker 2: for example, was writing to the Romans, the Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians,

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Speaker 2: whoever was to address specific issues that had arisen in

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Speaker 2: that congregation or with thy laymen, or or with with Timothy,

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Speaker 2: or in the church at Thesalonaika, then we can read

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Speaker 2: them and it makes sense. We see what he was

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Speaker 2: doing back then, and we can draw implications for today

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Speaker 2: because we're still in the church today and the you know,

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Speaker 2: the church still has its struggles, and the world is

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Speaker 2: still the world nothing as new, as Solomon would say

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Speaker 2: in Ecclesiastices, there's nothing new under the sun. It's the issues.

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Speaker 2: People are still pursuing wealth in a big name and

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Speaker 2: fame and fortune, and then they die and it's all vanity.

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Speaker 2: David Klingler is our guest.

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Speaker 1: David, let me ask you, you know, having gone to

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Speaker 1: law school and then getting another law degree. When people

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Speaker 1: ask me questions about, you know, how do I learn

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Speaker 1: more about the law, I often say that you have

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Speaker 1: to begin by unlearning many things that were told to

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Speaker 1: you that are not true because they create blocks, and

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Speaker 1: how you understand, you know, how our legal code is written,

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Speaker 1: and how how our legal code is interpreted and applied

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Speaker 1: and precedent and case law and all these sorts of things.

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Speaker 1: What are some things that you think corrupt our general

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Speaker 1: understanding of the Bible in a conventional sense that you

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Speaker 1: have to undo to go in with a properly open mind.

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Speaker 2: Boy, what a great question. I think that our denominationalism

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Speaker 2: doesn't help. Our church history doesn't help, Our Americanism doesn't help.

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Speaker 2: And I'm you know, look, I I'm profoundly proud of

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Speaker 2: our our our American history and so many of the

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Speaker 2: things there. But but when we equate being American with

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Speaker 2: being Christian, or or being whatever it is with being Christian,

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Speaker 2: that's that's not helpful. And so, as you said, so

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Speaker 2: many of the things that we have learned, not only

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Speaker 2: you know, limit us from understanding the Bible.

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Speaker 1: David Klingler is our guest. We had a momentary glitch.

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Speaker 1: The devil was was working on our phone lines and

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Speaker 1: took it down for a moment. But yeah, throughout his

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Speaker 1: career he has uh He has been perseverant and resilient,

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Speaker 1: if if nothing else, and and he will continue.

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Speaker 2: To be.

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Speaker 1: Just a second before we go to a quick break,

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Speaker 1: and then we'll move on to the next thing. What

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Speaker 1: do you love most about what you do now in

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Speaker 1: addition to being a dad and a husband and a friend.

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Speaker 1: But this, I don't want to call it a job

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Speaker 1: per se. But what do you love most about it.

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Speaker 2: To watch people understand the Bible. It was the thing

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Speaker 2: that drove me. And in the Bible doesn't need to

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Speaker 2: be hard to understand. The churches don't need to be

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Speaker 2: set against each other. We need to all be pursuing truth.

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Speaker 2: And and so when we understand the Bible becomes so simple,

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Speaker 2: and it's fun to watch students they're you know, the

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Speaker 2: kind of that aha moment. They they get it, they

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Speaker 2: understand it, and and it's just fun to watch. And

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Speaker 2: then they you watch how it changes their lives and

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Speaker 2: they devote themselves to very different things than they had before.

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Speaker 2: And and so that's what I love, That's what I do.

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Speaker 2: I'm thankful for the ministry of teaching the Bible. There's

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Speaker 2: so many great people behind that thing and make that go.

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Speaker 2: I just say on the in the microphone, what I

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Speaker 2: teach at at the seminary, But just so thankful to

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Speaker 2: be a part of that, and that the Lord can

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Speaker 2: use any of us. You know, you don't have to

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Speaker 2: be a retired football player with a big name. The

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Speaker 2: Lord has always used the smallest.

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Speaker 1: No, that's a talent and it's good that you do

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Speaker 1: use it. David Klingley Clingler is our guest more than comm.

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Speaker 2: And you listen to the Michael Berry Show. Good not.

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Speaker 1: David Klingler is our guest, former star quarterback. Now Teach

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Speaker 1: Me the Bible dot com or you can listen to

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Speaker 1: the podcast Teach Me the about You were talking about

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Speaker 1: the Book of John and and we're going to to

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Speaker 1: get to Paul's letters, I hope at some point, because

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Speaker 1: that's something that's always appealed to me. But you were

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Speaker 1: talking about we're talking about learning the Bible, and I'm

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Speaker 1: talking as much about self taught, which appears to be

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Speaker 1: a lot of what y'all do. And I love that

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Speaker 1: you're not trying to build an audience for yourself. You're

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Speaker 1: trying to It appears to me my study of what

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Speaker 1: y'all have done is to get people engage themselves in

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Speaker 1: a self help study of the Bible. And I love

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Speaker 1: that approach. But anyway, go ahead.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, our mission is to help the people of God

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Speaker 2: understand the Word of God. But you know the Gospel

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Speaker 2: of John, John is writing to convince the reader that

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Speaker 2: Jesus is the Christ. Well, if I ask students, and

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Speaker 2: I do this all the time in seminary, okay, well

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Speaker 2: what does that mean? And they look at me with

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Speaker 2: a blank stare, like, I don't know. Like Jesus Christ right,

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Speaker 2: Like you know, if he was wearing a jersey on

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Speaker 2: the back of his jersey, it would say Christ, like

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Speaker 2: his last name. Well, that's not that's a title. He's

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Speaker 2: the anointed king of Israel, proven through what he does,

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Speaker 2: through what he says. His words and works match those

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Speaker 2: of the Old Testament. So he's not somebody because even

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Speaker 2: John says so. Jesus even says in the Gospel of John,

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Speaker 2: and interact with the Pharisees. You know, you search the

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Speaker 2: scriptures because then you think you have eternal life. But

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Speaker 2: it's these that speak of me. And of course he's

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Speaker 2: talking about the Old Testament that all of creation was

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Speaker 2: waiting for this one to appear, and so that anticipation

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Speaker 2: is built in the Old Testament, and then you know,

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Speaker 2: I love how Matthew presents it. You know, the hope

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Speaker 2: of the world walked onto the scene in human form.

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Speaker 2: John says that that the Word became flesh and dwelt

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Speaker 2: among us talking about John and the other disciples, and

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Speaker 2: we beheld his glory, we saw him, we touched him

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Speaker 2: our hands, and we stuck our fingers in those holes,

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Speaker 2: and so we proclaimed to you. And so it's just

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Speaker 2: such an amazing story that corresponds to history. I mean,

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Speaker 2: you look at the world around us and even current

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Speaker 2: events today and what's happening, and this whole thing is

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Speaker 2: heading towards the end of God's redempt of his tree.

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Speaker 2: And you know, so the reason why it's so relevant

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Speaker 2: to us is because you're in it. We're all in it,

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Speaker 2: you know. And so so it's just such a compelling

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Speaker 2: the story to me, that corresponds to life, to all

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Speaker 2: of our lives. And so I think it's something that

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Speaker 2: everybody needs to know for themselves.

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Speaker 1: That's a fascinating approach. You know, I have experienced something

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Speaker 1: over the years, and I'm sure you have tenfold, and

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Speaker 1: that is that if I have someone on to talk

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Speaker 1: about the Bible, or if I myself make a statement

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Speaker 1: about my interpretation of something. There are a certain number

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Speaker 1: of people who it's the one upsmanship of social media.

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Speaker 1: They can't help themselves, but they love to tell you

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Speaker 1: how that's wrong because their pastor said this, this or this,

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Speaker 1: and I equate it to this. If I were to

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Speaker 1: go on Facebook today, just a toxic can be a

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Speaker 1: toxic place, but it could also be a wonderful place

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Speaker 1: because we get some things done there kind of crowd sourcing.

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Speaker 1: I were to say, I went to David Klingler's home

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Speaker 1: this weekend and he made burgers for us, and they

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Speaker 1: were wonderful, delicious burgers with cheese and meat and mayonnaise

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Speaker 1: and bread. I would out of the thousand people that

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Speaker 1: would respond, fifty of them would be no, my brother's

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Speaker 1: burgers were better, even though they had never eaten your

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Speaker 1: There's just this desire to kind of want to do.

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Speaker 1: You find people to be after reviewing the podcast, A

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Speaker 1: certain number of them to be combat combative, argumentative, because

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Speaker 1: I find that the Bible brings that out in some

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Speaker 1: people worse than even sports fandom.

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Speaker 2: Yeah there, yeah, politics, you deal with it. You know

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Speaker 2: it's politics religion. Those are areas in sports, right, politics

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Speaker 2: for religion and sports. So you know, those are the

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Speaker 2: kind of the three areas where everybody is entitled to

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Speaker 2: their own opinion, you know. And you can't tell me

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Speaker 2: any different, but you know, but again what motivates me.

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Speaker 2: I liked the example of the Bareans that that Lukera

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Speaker 2: courds in the Book of Acts. You know that they're

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Speaker 2: commended for going back to the scriptures to see if

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Speaker 2: these things are so? And you know, and so I

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Speaker 2: tell my students all the time, don't listen to me.

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Speaker 2: I don't want you to. You know, when you stand

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Speaker 2: before the Lord and say, well, doctor Klingler said, well,

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Speaker 2: you know what I tell him. Klingler's a moron. He's

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Speaker 2: been a more in his whole life. He's just trying

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Speaker 2: to help you see what the scriptures say. So let's

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Speaker 2: go back to see if these things are are so.

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Speaker 2: And so often our interpretation of some verse doesn't make

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Speaker 2: any sense. You know. I hear the same ones all

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Speaker 2: the time. I can do all things through Christy's strengthens me.

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Speaker 2: Well think about that for a second. Can you what

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Speaker 2: can you actually do through Christy strengthens you can you

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Speaker 2: leap tall buildings with a single bound or mentoring a

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Speaker 2: kid in high school and he had that Philippians four

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Speaker 2: thirteen on his letter Jack and his name is Casey,

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Speaker 2: And I said, Casey, what's that phil four thirteen? And

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Speaker 2: he looked at me like, well, aren't you supposed to

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Speaker 2: be a Bible teacher. Aren't you supposed to know this?

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Speaker 2: He said, I can do all things through christ who

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Speaker 2: strengthens me. I said, but like what? And he got

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Speaker 2: this paniced look on his face, like I'm not so

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Speaker 2: sure now that you you pressed me on it. And

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Speaker 2: so I said, well, how much do you bench pressed?

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Speaker 2: And he said, well, you know about three fifteen, so

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Speaker 2: that's pretty good for high school kid. I said, how

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Speaker 2: much you bench pressed with Christy's strengthened? Yet he says, well,

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Speaker 2: I guess about the same. I said, what does that mean?

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Speaker 2: And notice that Paul's writing to the Philippians and he

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Speaker 2: doesn't say, y'all can do all things through Christy strengthens y'all.

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Speaker 2: He could have said that, So what does he mean

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Speaker 2: when he says what he says? So? Really? Yeah, Well,

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Speaker 2: what he's talking about in the whole letter is that

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Speaker 2: he was concerned for these Philippians because you know the

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Speaker 2: the it's a very alive in wealth theology today that

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Speaker 2: if you serve the Lord, right, if you serve whatever

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Speaker 2: God it is you serve, he will bless you physically

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Speaker 2: and financially. Now, and of course that's not the gospel,

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Speaker 2: that's not Paul's reality. Paul had everything you know that

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Speaker 2: a religious leader would desire when he was a Pharisee.

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Speaker 2: But he comes to Christ and now all of a

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Speaker 2: sudden he's being beaten and persecuted and shipwrecked, and everywhere

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Speaker 2: he goes it's turning terrible for him. And he's concerned

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Speaker 2: with these Philippians who have participated with him in the

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Speaker 2: gospel from the first Day until now. They've been with

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Speaker 2: him in his defense of the gospel, and he's concerned

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Speaker 2: that they're going to leave him because of the persecution

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Speaker 2: that's coming. And so they sent him a gift, and

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Speaker 2: he's thankful for the gift. He's writing this in chapter

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Speaker 2: four and he says, I'm thankful for the gift, but

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Speaker 2: I don't need it. I've learned how to get along

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Speaker 2: with plenty, and I've learned how to get along with nothing.

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Speaker 2: I'm amply supplied. I can do all things through Christy

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Speaker 2: strengthens me. He can endure all suffering, he can endure

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Speaker 2: all hardship because his hope is in resurrection, not in

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Speaker 2: you know stuff now, life now, prosperity now. And so

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Speaker 2: once you put it in that context, now the reader,

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Speaker 2: the Philippians who are to adopt Paul's theology to think

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Speaker 2: the same way Paul thinks, can say, ah, now I

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Speaker 2: understand what he's saying, and we too can do all

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Speaker 2: things through We can endure all things through Christ, who

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Speaker 2: strengthens us. And that's really the the reality of life,

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Speaker 2: isn't it that? You know, we were just talking. We

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Speaker 2: were texting back and forth, and we're getting old here,

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Speaker 2: and you can see.

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Speaker 1: I'm not quite as old as here. We'll continue our

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Speaker 1: conversation with Dave Klingler. The website is teach Me the

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Speaker 1: Bible dot Com. Teach Me the Bible dot Com is

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Speaker 1: also the name of the pipeline we're.

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Speaker 2: Going to be changing the name of the Gulf of

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Speaker 2: Mexico to the Gulf of mitt michael Berry, which has

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Speaker 2: a beautiful.

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Speaker 1: David Klingler was once known as a star quarterback Stratford

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Speaker 1: High school and then at the University of Houston, where

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Speaker 1: he was a third in the running for the Heisman

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Speaker 1: Trophy the year that Ty Detmer of Byu won it

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Speaker 1: and rocket ismael number two at Notre Dame. He was

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Speaker 1: his first round draft pick for Cincinnati Bengals. And after

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Speaker 1: his career was over, or as he said, even before that,

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Speaker 1: he started looking for more meaning in life. And he

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Speaker 1: wanted to learn the Bible, not to preach, not for

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Speaker 1: a living, he didn't need to worry about that, but

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Speaker 1: he wanted to understand and learn the Word of God.

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Speaker 1: So he went to the Dallas Theological Seminary and ended

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Speaker 1: up getting his PhD. And now Teach Me the Bible

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Speaker 1: dot com and the podcast Teach Me the Bible and

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Speaker 1: with us. Now, let me give you this segment if

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Speaker 1: you would, And you've got about eight minutes, and I

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Speaker 1: want you to teach me the Bible of the Birth

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Speaker 1: of Christ as you would, and I'll give you a

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Speaker 1: one minute wrap up. But I'm my guessing is you

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Speaker 1: got your clock down pretty.

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Speaker 2: Good, all right, So the assignment the Birth of would have.

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Speaker 1: Been nice if I gave you the lead time, I know.

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Speaker 2: But anyway, well that's okay. Well, no, well, it's it's

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Speaker 2: an Old Testament story, you know it really, the birth

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Speaker 2: of Christ is an Old Testament story. The whole story

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Speaker 2: is an anticipation. So we you know, we go back

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Speaker 2: to creation, we go back to the garden, and you know,

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Speaker 2: and God has this mandate tor He says, let us

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Speaker 2: make man in our image and in our lightnings, and

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Speaker 2: let him rule over the bird's ear and the fish

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Speaker 2: of the sea, at the beast of the field. He

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Speaker 2: creates man and gives creates the woman to help her.

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Speaker 2: They were to be fruitful and multiply image bears. And

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Speaker 2: the serpent comes into this scene. The antagonists, or the Satan,

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Speaker 2: we call him. All Satan means hastan. The adversary comes

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Speaker 2: in and deceives the woman, and the man's there with her,

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Speaker 2: and they eat of the forbidden tree and they're kicked

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Speaker 2: out of the garden. They're removed from the tree of life.

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Speaker 2: And so now man, you know, Adam's name is a

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Speaker 2: He comes from the Adamah. Adama means ground. He was

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Speaker 2: raised up out of the ground to never return to it,

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Speaker 2: to rule over the bird's the ear, the fishescy the

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Speaker 2: beast and field. And now he's going back to the ground,

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Speaker 2: and that creates the problem. And it's our problem, right,

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Speaker 2: we think we've got a lot of problems. Our problem

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Speaker 2: is you're you know your days are numbered, and you

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Speaker 2: don't know if today's your last day, and and so

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Speaker 2: this introduces the problem, and the Lord declares right there

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Speaker 2: in Genesis three. The Church has always recognized what we

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Speaker 2: call the proto evangelim, the first proclamation of the Gospel,

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Speaker 2: that the Lord was going to bring through this woman,

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Speaker 2: this one who would be born, who would die for sin.

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Speaker 2: We're reading a little bit in here, but this is

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Speaker 2: what's developed in the story. And so the whole story

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Speaker 2: of Genesis is tracking this promise, and really nothing else.

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Speaker 2: Practice attracts this promise down through the genealogies, through Noah,

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Speaker 2: through Abraham, through Isaac, through Jacob, through Israel, through Judah,

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Speaker 2: through the family line of Paris to the house of

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Speaker 2: David the King, and this promise is given to him,

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Speaker 2: and it's going to come through this kingly line of

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Speaker 2: David and Isaiah. The prophet shows up and condemns the

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Speaker 2: whole line of David and says, a virgin will give birth,

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Speaker 2: that I don't need you king, a has I don't

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Speaker 2: need you, the Davidic line, I don't need is I'll

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Speaker 2: do it by myself with a little girl. And so

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Speaker 2: all of creation, all of the hope of the world

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Speaker 2: waits for God to keep his promises. As Israel is disobedient,

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Speaker 2: thrown out of the land, dispersed among the nations, and

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Speaker 2: at the right time to the day, as Daniel the

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Speaker 2: prophet prophesies, Christ is born. The promised One appears, and

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Speaker 2: he's proven through his words and works that he is

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Speaker 2: the one that the whole creation, all of the law

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Speaker 2: and the prophets and the psalms, was anticipating. And he

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Speaker 2: walks onto the scene and does exactly what was foretold, crucified, buried, resurrected,

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Speaker 2: ascends to the right hand of the Father, and and

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Speaker 2: you know, and that's the gospel story. That's the it's

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Speaker 2: the story of the births of Christ. So it's say,

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Speaker 2: thirty nine books building towards the gospels. Everything is pointing

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Speaker 2: towards this lun and when he's born, it is just,

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Speaker 2: you know, the hope of the world has appeared. And

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Speaker 2: you know, and so what.

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Speaker 1: You know you mentioned Philippians four thirteen, and how people

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Speaker 1: use in a kind of a health and wellness. You know,

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Speaker 1: I can do all things through Christ, who strengthened me.

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Speaker 1: What are things about Christ's birth or life or I

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Speaker 1: don't want to get to teachings per se yet because

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Speaker 1: I want to save that. But what are things about

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Speaker 1: Christ's life that you think are not understood or widely misunderstood?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think that the from the very beginning, you know,

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Speaker 2: you think about Job and Job's friends. This it's this

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Speaker 2: theology that says, if you serve the Lord, or serve

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Speaker 2: God or whatever it is, you'll be blessed. Now you say, well,

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Speaker 2: that doesn't make any sense. It certainly didn't work for Paul.

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Speaker 2: It didn't work. I mean, you go back to the

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Speaker 2: very beginning of the of the Bible of Cain and Abel.

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Speaker 2: You know, Abel was the righteous one, but Cain kills Abel.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it didn't work for Abel. It didn't work

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Speaker 2: for Jesus, it didn't work for the prophets Paul. So

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Speaker 2: Paul is going to say things like all who desire

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Speaker 2: to be godly in Christ, Jesus will suffer, will be persecuted.

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Speaker 2: And so this was Jesus's life, and so often I

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Speaker 2: think that, and we kind of learned this through through

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Speaker 2: church history and our unique American experience, that we've westernized

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Speaker 2: the gospel and americanized it so that the means by

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Speaker 2: which you can experience the American dream is through Christ.

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Speaker 2: He will help you, you know, achieve all you want

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Speaker 2: to achieve. I know the plans I have for you,

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Speaker 2: declares the Lord of future and hope. And so we

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Speaker 2: go in there, we grab that verse and jerk it

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Speaker 2: out at and we make it about us. And and

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Speaker 2: so you know, Christ came as a suffering servant to

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Speaker 2: lay down his life for sin, and I don't think

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Speaker 2: that we focus on that near enough and call believers.

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Speaker 2: And in the early Church first few centuries, they viewed

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Speaker 2: suffering martyrdom as part of discipleship, to deny yourself and

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Speaker 2: to take up your cross, and it was very real

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Speaker 2: to them. But once the you know, Christianity kind of

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Speaker 2: becomes the state religion, or at least the accepted religion,

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Speaker 2: persecution ends and those verses kind of go away, and

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Speaker 2: they're uncomfortable, and now you know, it's yeah, and it

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Speaker 2: becomes a means by which we can achieve.

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Speaker 1: And we we we thank Jesus because we won the game.

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Speaker 1: And I always think, well, does that mean the Lord

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Speaker 1: didn't care for the other team? You know, there's this

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Speaker 1: idea that you know, if I, if I chuck up

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Speaker 1: a deuce after the game, you know, then God will

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Speaker 1: favor me with victories and awards and all those things.

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Speaker 1: And it's always it's always been interesting that that's that's

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Speaker 1: almost this this. I don't know that that one's always

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Speaker 1: bothered me a bit more than the others. I don't

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Speaker 1: really know why David Klingler is our guest.

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Speaker 2: He is.

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Speaker 1: He is the man behind, along with a team around him,

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Speaker 1: of teach me the Bible dot Com and then teach

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Speaker 1: Me the Bible dot Com podcast, which, like every other podcast,

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Speaker 1: is free and accessible and a great thing to listen

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Speaker 1: to as you're driving across the country or just driving home.

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Speaker 1: And he'll be our guest for more.

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Speaker 2: I mean