1 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:07,640 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Emily, and this is and you're listening 2 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:21,240 Speaker 1: to Steph. Mom never told you. And today we're talking 3 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: about the recent decision on behalf of the Boy Scouts 4 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 1: of America to accept girls for the first time into 5 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: their cub Scout program in ten So this decision was 6 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 1: announced this past October when the Boy Scouts of America 7 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 1: said that for the first time in their nearly one 8 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 1: hundred year history here in the United States, they were 9 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:45,000 Speaker 1: going to be fully inclusive for girls joining the youngest 10 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:49,599 Speaker 1: ranks of their program. And this struck me immediately, like 11 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:53,280 Speaker 1: many people, as a cool, progressive win. But it sounds 12 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:57,920 Speaker 1: very inclusive of them and very progressive and forward thinking exactly. 13 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 1: And the more we looked into this, the more drama 14 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:05,840 Speaker 1: there is behind this story, because that's not the full story. 15 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:11,800 Speaker 1: So today we're gonna break down potentially what motivated this decision, specifically, 16 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:14,760 Speaker 1: how the Girl Scouts of America have reacted to said decision, 17 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 1: and what this actually means for the boots on the 18 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 1: ground when it comes to the kids who are the 19 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 1: Scouts themselves and the parents who are really the ones 20 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:25,680 Speaker 1: who are running the program. Because this is based on 21 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:29,840 Speaker 1: you know, troop by Troop administration. So first, let's take 22 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:31,840 Speaker 1: a look back the history of the Boy Scouts of 23 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 1: America for a second. So this latest move on to 24 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 1: have the Boy Scouts was one of many transitions that 25 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:43,680 Speaker 1: they've made in this era of really declining membership, which 26 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 1: is important to underscore. They used to be five million 27 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 1: member Boy Scouts going strong, and now those numbers have 28 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 1: really shrunked about two million Boy Scouts nationwide. And you 29 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: might recall that the Boy Scouts have had some scandal 30 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 1: as of late. Back in two thousand and ten, a 31 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 1: sexual abuse scandal struck the Voice Scouts and really rocked 32 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:11,680 Speaker 1: their entire brand and their reputation. Back in twenty ten, 33 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 1: a jury ordered that the Scouts pay eighteen point five 34 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 1: million dollars in damages to a Scout who was abused 35 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 1: in the nineteen eighties. It became the largest punitive damages 36 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 1: award to a single plaintiff in a child abuse case 37 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 1: in the US history. Wow. So, you know, at first 38 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 1: I thought that maybe the numbers were declining just because 39 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: of shifting interests and young people. But you know, I 40 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 1: think that that really turnished their brand and made it 41 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 1: the kind of thing that people weren't super excited to 42 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:43,080 Speaker 1: get involved in the way that they were when I 43 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 1: was growing up. Yeah, And I think also there's something 44 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:48,399 Speaker 1: to be said about what you mentioned though the trend right. 45 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 1: I think as millennials become parents and become the majority 46 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 1: of parents soon, there's this market shift in a search 47 00:02:56,280 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 1: for new forms of community structures. Because communal groups and 48 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 1: hobbies and infrastructure of your own, you know, community groups, 49 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:08,639 Speaker 1: things like that used to be really big, like organized 50 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: religion or clubs or sports. They've been on the decline 51 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 1: for a long time now. So I think there's this 52 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 1: interest in, Okay, how do we appeal to a millennial 53 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 1: parent in an era of overwhelmed. Quite frankly, I think 54 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:28,239 Speaker 1: that community involvement has gone down over the last few decades, 55 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 1: and their brand was rocked by this totally, and that 56 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 1: might be part of the reason why. And back in 57 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 1: the Boy Scouts of America said, Okay, we have to 58 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 1: make some changes. We have to show that we're inclusive, 59 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 1: that we're safe, that we're supportive. So that's when the 60 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 1: Boy Scouts of America first accepted gay boy Scouts, which 61 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 1: was a really big deal. That's when they change their 62 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 1: policy from like not at all being inclusive and being 63 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: pretty hardcore right wing, super affiliated with hard right Catholicism. 64 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 1: That's sounds great, but it also was sort of head 65 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: scratching that before they were making young boys pick a 66 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 1: sexual orientation and then that sexual orientation determined whether or 67 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:16,480 Speaker 1: not they could be involved in the Boy Scouts or not. Well, 68 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 1: it basically was like not friendly for gay folks period. 69 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:21,360 Speaker 1: I mean, if you think about it, this was like 70 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 1: probably a year after Cheerios first had gay parents in 71 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 1: their commercials. This is a different time, and thank god, 72 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:34,039 Speaker 1: we've progressed rapidly on you know, the main streaming of 73 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 1: marriage equality, although I think we've discussed on a few 74 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: episodes now how marriage equality is not enough and certainly 75 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:43,839 Speaker 1: isn't sufficient for equal protection under the law for our 76 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:47,599 Speaker 1: fellow gay Americans. But you know, they've made some strides 77 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:50,279 Speaker 1: at Boy Scouts of America to try to modernize. Yeah, 78 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 1: later in the Boy Scouts decided they were going to 79 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 1: accept gay Scout leaders, So they were accepting gay Scouts 80 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: and gay Scout leaders at this point. That same year, 81 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 1: the Girl Scouts accepted Frands girls into the Girl Scouts 82 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 1: ranks as well, right, And then it took until for 83 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:08,280 Speaker 1: the Boy Scouts to formally accept trans Scouts. So it's 84 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 1: kind of an interesting to watch who's going to be 85 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:14,040 Speaker 1: more inclusive and when and how and when you're dealing 86 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 1: with sexual orientation and the mainstreaming of sort of progressive 87 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:23,919 Speaker 1: inclusion policies with children's organizations. It was really interesting to 88 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:27,159 Speaker 1: see how these two institutions reacted. Yeah, I find the 89 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 1: whole thing kind of fascinating. You would think that sexual orientation, 90 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 1: particularly the sexual orientation of an adult, would not really 91 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 1: come into play in the Scouts. It just it's strange 92 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 1: to me to think that that was a conversation. You know, 93 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 1: growing up doing dance and stuff, I didn't know if 94 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:47,920 Speaker 1: my dance teachers were gay or straight. It just never 95 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 1: it never came up. It was a non issue. And 96 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 1: so it's interesting to me that this was such a 97 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:54,359 Speaker 1: um hot button thing that they needed to get a 98 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:56,720 Speaker 1: policy on. It seems like, well, there was a lot 99 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 1: of homophobia in the ranks. It's not like there was 100 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:02,839 Speaker 1: a lot of sexual orientation talk in the Rings, but 101 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:08,360 Speaker 1: there was homophobia that conflated sexual abuse scandals with gay people. 102 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 1: I see what you're saying. Yeah, Yeah, So which is 103 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 1: we know is totally mistake. It's it's this kind of 104 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 1: like classic gay panic where if there's gay people around 105 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 1: and there's kids in the mix, people sell that as 106 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: if it's some sort of scandal, like, oh, think about 107 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 1: your children, blah blah blah, your children aren't safe. Everyone 108 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 1: knows that's bunk. Yeah, it's it's a way of injecting 109 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 1: this really toxic based out of nothing ideology into nothing right, 110 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 1: like fearmongering. It's homophobia, like one on one. It's so gross. 111 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 1: It's so gross that I think it's even grosser that 112 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 1: kids are involved, because it normalizes that kind of toxic 113 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 1: thing for kids at such an early age. Kids will 114 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 1: grow thinking it's okay to exclusive one because they're gay 115 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:54,840 Speaker 1: or because they're trans if they are getting that message 116 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:57,920 Speaker 1: from social organization that they're a part of. Yeah, So 117 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:00,919 Speaker 1: I think that was part of the decision, was a 118 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:06,239 Speaker 1: market shift from a more conservative, hardline ideology that really 119 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 1: has been at the root of the Boy Scouts of 120 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 1: America since its founding in our country to post scandal 121 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 1: post saying we need to adapt because things are changing 122 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:22,520 Speaker 1: and we need to be inclusive. And here's the thing. 123 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 1: A lot of people, including notably the Girl Scouts of 124 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 1: America think that it has nothing to do with a 125 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 1: shift in values or commitment to inclusion. They really think 126 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 1: this has everything to do with a marketing strategy to 127 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 1: up their ranks and not their numbers. So, when the 128 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 1: Boy Scouts of America made this latest announcement that they 129 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 1: were going to include girls, despite the fact that a 130 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 1: lot of progressives and feminists just like me, we're cheering 131 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 1: on this notion of expanded opportunities for girls who wanted 132 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 1: to join the Boy Scouts, the Girl Scouts of America 133 00:07:55,040 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: were not so pleased. In a letter obtained by BuzzFeed News, 134 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 1: the Girl Scouts called the Boy Scouts quote covert campaign 135 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 1: end quote to recruit girls, both reckless and unsettling, and 136 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 1: basically spilled this clearly antagonistic feud between the Girl Scouts 137 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 1: and the Boy Scouts into the open. So I had 138 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:22,120 Speaker 1: no idea that there was this intense bad blood between 139 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 1: the Girl Scouts and the Boy Scouts. This is some 140 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 1: East Coast West Coast like, this is a real blood feud. Definitely, 141 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 1: I had no idea that they were involved in this 142 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 1: kind of bad blood. But I guess I almost would 143 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:36,600 Speaker 1: have assumed that they were working together, they were one organization, 144 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 1: but not so at all, not at all so. While 145 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 1: the Boy Scouts released the statement saying, the values of Scouting, trustworthy, loyal, helpful, kind, brave, 146 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 1: and reverence are important for both young men and women, 147 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:54,199 Speaker 1: we strive to bring what our organization does best, developing 148 00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 1: character and leadership for young people, to as many families 149 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 1: and youth as possible as we help shape the next 150 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 1: generation of leaders. Right. That was their take on it. 151 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 1: Very innocuous, very noble, noble, very good sounding like who 152 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:13,680 Speaker 1: wouldn't share that on? And the Girl Scout said, here's 153 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 1: the deal. You're all being had, Okay. Their president, Kathy 154 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:20,880 Speaker 1: Hopinka Hannon, wrote a letter to the Boy Scouts president 155 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 1: Randall Stevenson, saying it is inherently dishonest to claim to 156 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 1: be a single gender organization the Boy Scouts while simultaneously 157 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 1: endeavoring upon a co ed model. We were disappointed in 158 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 1: the lack of transparency as we learned that you were 159 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 1: surreptitiously testing the appeal of a girl's offering to millennial parents, 160 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 1: basically saying, you're encroaching on our turf, and we know 161 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 1: that you're doing this dishonestly with false advertising just to 162 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 1: up your pathetic numbers. One. What a statement they really, 163 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:02,080 Speaker 1: I mean they they did not hold back. I don't know. 164 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 1: When I read the Boy Scouts statement, I said exactly 165 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 1: what you said, right. Oh, this sounds great, that sounds progressive, 166 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:11,440 Speaker 1: that sounds noble. I'm behind it. I actually don't disagree 167 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:14,320 Speaker 1: with either statement, I guess because it does sound like 168 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 1: like a turf grab, and it does seem like something 169 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 1: they're doing, perhaps disingenuously to get more Scouts and let's 170 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:24,920 Speaker 1: get more money. Yeah, I mean, I can also see 171 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:29,160 Speaker 1: both sides of the issue. I have to say, I 172 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:33,560 Speaker 1: am disappointed that the grown ups in this case can't 173 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:36,080 Speaker 1: set a better example for the kids. There are a 174 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 1: lot of children watching their leadership, watching their role models here, 175 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:45,840 Speaker 1: and as grown ups were failing to get along, we're 176 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 1: failing to be collaborative. And you know what, this isn't 177 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 1: anomaly when it comes to Scouts across the world. So 178 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:54,679 Speaker 1: to really understand where there's bad blood comes from, it's 179 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 1: not about this one decision, Bridget. We have to look 180 00:10:57,240 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 1: deeper into where this animosity comes from, which I want 181 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 1: to do after we take this quick break and then 182 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 1: dived into the history of the Girl Scouts in the 183 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 1: Boy Scouts here in the US. We'll be right back 184 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:18,320 Speaker 1: after this. Okay, so we're back. Let's take a look 185 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 1: back at how we got here. How the Boy Scouts 186 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 1: versus Girl Scouts war that just broke out really stems 187 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 1: from a long history of animosity. So back in Robert 188 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:33,200 Speaker 1: Baden powered with the book Scouting for Boys, and it 189 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:36,439 Speaker 1: was an instant hit in the UK, basically starting the 190 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 1: boy Scout movement as we know it exactly. And here's 191 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:44,040 Speaker 1: the funny part. So instantaneously he was an overnight successful author. 192 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 1: He didn't really think he was starting this you know, 193 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 1: worldwide phenomenon or or community program, but a bunch of 194 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:55,560 Speaker 1: his fans kids were writing in saying, Hey, I'm a 195 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 1: little boy, I want to get involved. Where do I 196 00:11:57,840 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 1: you know, how do I join or start my own 197 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 1: group for the Scouts, And what he didn't see coming, 198 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 1: we're all the little girls who were also inspired to 199 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:08,440 Speaker 1: get more into the outdoors. Some some of them would 200 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:09,720 Speaker 1: write in and saying, hey, I'm a girl, can I 201 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:13,440 Speaker 1: be a Scout too? Or they would say hey, I'm 202 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 1: e aries, I'm just writing in like all the other 203 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 1: boys because I love scouting, so they would kind of 204 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:22,080 Speaker 1: write in in this covert manner to be like a 205 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 1: surreptitious girl sneaking into scouting. What I also love is 206 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 1: that you had boys really modeling what it means to 207 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:31,680 Speaker 1: be a feminist ally. You know, really early on, some 208 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 1: of these little boys would write in and advocate for 209 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:36,560 Speaker 1: their sisters or their little girlfriends to be involved in 210 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 1: their scouting. They would say, Hey, my name is Billie, 211 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 1: and I have this friend named Bridget who really wants 212 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 1: to go camping with us. Is it cool if she 213 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 1: comes along too. You really had all of these ways 214 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:49,319 Speaker 1: that young people were trying to finagle their way into 215 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 1: getting equal representation in the Scouts. Yeah, because I think 216 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 1: what this belies is that the outdoors are of interest 217 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 1: to everybody, and that's what the basis of scouting was about. 218 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:01,960 Speaker 1: It was about outdoor ensure, and that first book, Scouting 219 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 1: for Boys, was all about, uh, sort of the manly 220 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 1: art of being one with nature and figuring out how 221 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:11,080 Speaker 1: to how to attain it and control it and have 222 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 1: survival skills. So to harness this demand from both boys 223 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 1: and girls, Baden Powell unlisted the help of his sister 224 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:20,240 Speaker 1: Agnes Baton Powell to start their own organization in England 225 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:22,880 Speaker 1: called the Girl Guides, which started in nine nine, right, 226 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 1: so it was only two years later, but there were 227 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:29,479 Speaker 1: some market differences. The Girl Guides focused on more appropriate 228 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:35,960 Speaker 1: crafts and focused on caring and basically grooming the next 229 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 1: generation of homemakers, as opposed to what the basis of 230 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:43,240 Speaker 1: scouting for boys was all about. So Girl Guides Boy 231 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 1: Scouts really came about at the turn of the century 232 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 1: in the UK and from the very get go divided 233 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:52,960 Speaker 1: their attention. While here in the US things are pretty 234 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:56,319 Speaker 1: segregated by gender, in places like Europe and in Scandinavia, 235 00:13:56,559 --> 00:13:58,960 Speaker 1: the Girl Scouts and the Boy Scouts have actually merged, 236 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:00,719 Speaker 1: which I think is kind of cool when I think 237 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 1: about how the model of scouting could be. I think, 238 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 1: if both organizations just have this model where they want 239 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 1: to help kids be their best selves, they really should 240 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:12,160 Speaker 1: be on the same team. They have the same goals. 241 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 1: Why not merge the two exactly? And that's what's happened 242 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 1: over the course of the last hundred years or so. 243 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 1: Since starting in the UK at the turn of the 244 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 1: twentieth century, things have gotten a lot more general neutral 245 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 1: in most parts of the world when it comes to scouting. 246 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 1: Here in the United States, though, the foundations of the 247 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:33,080 Speaker 1: Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts, which really just took a 248 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 1: few years after things got started in the UK, we're 249 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: almost founded with this highly antagonistic tone. In the nine twenties, 250 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 1: the Boy Scouts of America sued the Girl Scouts of 251 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:47,880 Speaker 1: America for their use of the word scout, basically saying 252 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 1: that it was an inherently male term that they were misrepresenting. 253 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 1: They were not successful in that campaign, but not what 254 00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 1: the word means, I know, but I mean, think about 255 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 1: that time. They were saying, there are no such thing 256 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 1: as girl Scouts, and you're stealing our identity and our 257 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: brand and trying to feminize it. And it just when 258 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 1: I was reading that, you know who I thought of 259 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 1: was Harper Lee's character, Scout Finch. And to kill a 260 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:17,640 Speaker 1: mocking word, Scouts being named scout kind of picks on 261 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:20,680 Speaker 1: another kind of radical element fact that I hadn't even 262 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 1: considered the same. So there was this debate raging in 263 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 1: the United States as to whether or not there could 264 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 1: be such a thing as a girl Scout, as opposed 265 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 1: to the UK, where there were girl guides, So I 266 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 1: think from the get go the Boy Scouts of America 267 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 1: felt threatened by the encroachment of the Girl Scouts of America, 268 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 1: and since then there's been a bit of a turf war. 269 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 1: Throughout history, the Boy Scouts of America have always had 270 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 1: a very different culture as an organization than the Girl 271 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 1: Scouts too, And we started the top of the show 272 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 1: talking about the ways that the Boy Scouts are really 273 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:55,760 Speaker 1: entrenched in this religious sort of much more grounded, explicitly 274 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 1: organized religion, very dealing with things like homophobia and whether 275 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:02,080 Speaker 1: or not gay folks in It does seem like the 276 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 1: Boy Scouts early on had been steeped in this sort 277 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 1: of conservative, right wing ideology in a way the Girl 278 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 1: Scouts really never were. Exactly. The Girl Scouts were always 279 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 1: more urban in focus, We're always less religious in focus 280 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 1: in terms of where their troops met even right, those 281 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:23,160 Speaker 1: are sort of cultural markers that continued throughout the course 282 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 1: of the Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts of America. The 283 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 1: Girl Scouts of America have always more explicitly focused on 284 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:31,600 Speaker 1: issues relating to social justice too. Yeah, when I was 285 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 1: involved in the Girl Scouts many many many years ago, 286 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 1: our big like year long project always involves some sort 287 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 1: of urban renewal, So we would um volunteer at some 288 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 1: sort of organization or we would you know, I remember 289 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 1: like fixing up an old house for someone, like things 290 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:48,480 Speaker 1: like that. It was always rooted in some sort of 291 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 1: social justice e aspect of that. That in spreading peanut 292 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 1: butter around pine cones for some reason, that was something 293 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 1: that we did make that was like that was like, 294 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think we ever did anything outdoors 295 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:03,440 Speaker 1: the other than smeeter peanut butter on pine cones for 296 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:07,159 Speaker 1: bird fears. I was a Girl Scout too. I was 297 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 1: a Brownie and then a Junior Girl Scout, and I 298 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:13,120 Speaker 1: have to say my favorite parts of Girl Scout were camping. 299 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:15,920 Speaker 1: We would go to Girl Scout camp. It wasn't very rugged, 300 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:18,199 Speaker 1: to be fair, but I always wanted there to be 301 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:21,560 Speaker 1: more fire and more pocket knives. And I totally get 302 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 1: the appeal of boy Scouts for girls because I would 303 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:27,240 Speaker 1: tagle on with my older brother Alex his Scout troop 304 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:30,199 Speaker 1: meetings and they seemed quite frankly like way more up 305 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:33,679 Speaker 1: my alley. Yeah, our Scout meetings for the Girl Scouts. 306 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:36,200 Speaker 1: All we did was put peanut butter and pine and 307 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 1: craft about each other and braid each other. Yeah, there 308 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 1: was a lot of like friendship bracelets. And here's the thing. 309 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:45,399 Speaker 1: The cultural differences between the Boy Scouts of America and 310 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:50,120 Speaker 1: the Girl Scouts of America. We're sort of perpetuated by 311 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 1: independent troop leaders. You're Scouting experience varies dramatically to this 312 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:59,200 Speaker 1: day based on the interests and focus of your Scout leader. 313 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:04,640 Speaker 1: So there's this interesting undertone of more conservative, more religious 314 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 1: ideology that you know, the Boy Scouts of America really embodied. 315 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:11,160 Speaker 1: Even if you look at where they're headquartered, you can 316 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 1: sort of see the difference. Boy Scouts are headquartered in Texas. 317 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:17,199 Speaker 1: Girl Scouts of America are headquartered in New York City, 318 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:20,440 Speaker 1: of all places. So there seems to be this attraction 319 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 1: of more progressive, more urban focused, more social justice focused 320 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:29,360 Speaker 1: Girl Scout troop leaders that perpetuates that culture even when 321 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:31,639 Speaker 1: you look at what they determined Scouts honor to be 322 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:35,159 Speaker 1: for both organizations. The Boy Scout Scouts honor includes the 323 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:38,160 Speaker 1: phrase to serve God and my country, but the Girl 324 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:40,919 Speaker 1: Scouts are formally told that they can substitute whatever they 325 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 1: want for God, so you can serve you know, blam 326 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:47,440 Speaker 1: and my country. I remember you remember, like the Girl 327 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:50,240 Speaker 1: Scouts hand position. I'm like, I wish you all could 328 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 1: see this, but that like pinky and thumb connecting on 329 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:57,119 Speaker 1: my honor, I will try to serve God in my country, 330 00:18:57,200 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 1: to help people at all times. And it goes on 331 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 1: and on and on like that. And when you look 332 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 1: at the Boy Scouts honor and the code that they 333 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 1: live by, first of all, I was struck by how 334 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:09,480 Speaker 1: completely similar they were. And you're like, oh, girl Scouts 335 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:12,160 Speaker 1: are really less religious. They have God in their honor 336 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:14,679 Speaker 1: code just as much as the boys do. But the 337 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:18,119 Speaker 1: Girl Scouts, like you said, give you that opportunity to 338 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:26,400 Speaker 1: serve country and beyoncetry. And contrast that with the Boy 339 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:29,439 Speaker 1: Scouts of America, who still to this day have you 340 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 1: written policy against atheists and agnostics being in their ranks? 341 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:37,399 Speaker 1: So as leaders or as Scouts unclear, But this is 342 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 1: according to Katie Tuttle's New York Times op ed, who says, 343 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: don't be fooled. Basically, do not be fooled into thinking 344 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:46,160 Speaker 1: this is a progressive organization. They may have become more 345 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 1: progressive in a few marketing moves over the last few years. 346 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:52,840 Speaker 1: But at its core, this is still a pretty conservative, 347 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:57,639 Speaker 1: hardline organized religion sort of creeping in on your youth. 348 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:01,359 Speaker 1: And I can't help but recall a pretty big figure 349 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:05,159 Speaker 1: in right wing conservative politics dropping by recently to give 350 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:06,879 Speaker 1: a big speech to the Boy Scouts. Do you know 351 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:09,200 Speaker 1: what I'm talking about? Yeah? I think not the most 352 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:13,600 Speaker 1: godly of all people, certainly not definitely on the right. Yeah. 353 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:16,679 Speaker 1: Trump Alert, y'all. You may have recalled that in July, 354 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 1: just to give you a sense of how divergent the 355 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:23,720 Speaker 1: Boy Scout versus Girl Scout cultures are. In July, the 356 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:27,159 Speaker 1: Boy Scouts of America hosted President Trump and said this 357 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:28,760 Speaker 1: would be a good idea. Let's bring him in to 358 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:30,440 Speaker 1: give a speech to a room full of Scouts and 359 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:35,159 Speaker 1: their parents. And after said speech, the chief Scout that 360 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:37,160 Speaker 1: the sort of person who organized it had to issue 361 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:41,360 Speaker 1: an apology to the Scouts and their parents because are 362 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:45,679 Speaker 1: absolutely brilliant, admirable commander in chief decided to regale the 363 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:49,360 Speaker 1: Scouts with tales of partying on yachts and then smearing 364 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:53,440 Speaker 1: his political opponents. Furthermore, Trump went on to say, after 365 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:56,320 Speaker 1: this apology came out, oh, I talked to the Boy Scouts. 366 00:20:56,359 --> 00:20:57,920 Speaker 1: They said, I gave the greatest speech of all time, 367 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 1: blah blah blah, and basically Glee lied that never that 368 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:04,280 Speaker 1: conversation does not seem to have taken place. So here's 369 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:07,480 Speaker 1: my thing. If the Boy Scouts want to look super progressive, 370 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,439 Speaker 1: super inclusive, why in the world would they think that 371 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:13,720 Speaker 1: inviting a president as divisive as Trump to talk to 372 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 1: their kids would be a smart pr move. Well, there 373 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:20,879 Speaker 1: are leadership organization right like this was a grab, an 374 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:25,680 Speaker 1: attempted grab, and having a prominent leader who doesn't act 375 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 1: like a leader come speak to the Scouts, I mean, 376 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:31,480 Speaker 1: I I understand it's probably a tradition. I think a 377 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:33,679 Speaker 1: lot of presidents have addressed the Girl Scouts and the 378 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 1: Boy Scouts. But it clearly was a mistake. Right. They 379 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:42,440 Speaker 1: ended up issuing a formal apology. That's I think that's noteworthy. 380 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:44,600 Speaker 1: But the fact that they invited him in the first 381 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 1: place belies the culture differences between the Girl Scouts and 382 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 1: the Boy Scouts. And to be fair, the Girl Scouts 383 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:53,199 Speaker 1: did have to apologize for their involved in Trump's inauguration 384 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:56,200 Speaker 1: when they decided to perform, and I think it really 385 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:58,480 Speaker 1: just goes to show I don't think any kind of 386 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:00,800 Speaker 1: like kids, organizations should be getting an involved with Trump 387 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:03,199 Speaker 1: unless they want hot water. Right. Well, I mean the 388 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:06,840 Speaker 1: reality is, first of all, inauguration days were give them 389 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 1: a chance, let's all come together days. Remember those days. 390 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:11,600 Speaker 1: We never were bought in on that to be here. 391 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:16,440 Speaker 1: But these are leadership organizations. The Scouts, Girls and Boys 392 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 1: are purportedly the nation's leading organizations to help cultivate the 393 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:27,199 Speaker 1: next generation of leaders and civic leaders. At that the 394 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 1: whole idea behind the Scouts is to create good citizens 395 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:32,200 Speaker 1: and to create future leaders, which I think is an 396 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 1: admirable goal. So it doesn't surprise me that they returned 397 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 1: to the highest leader in the land despite this current 398 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:43,239 Speaker 1: historical anomaly. But and and look for inspiration. Well, this 399 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 1: is the statement the Girl Scouts put out defending their 400 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:47,800 Speaker 1: choice to be involved in the inauguration. They say pretty 401 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 1: much exactly that at Girl Scouts, our movement is made 402 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,960 Speaker 1: up as individuals who hold political beliefs and convictions as 403 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:56,879 Speaker 1: varied as the nation itself. And because every girl has 404 00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:58,720 Speaker 1: a home at the Girl Scouts, every girl in our 405 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:03,040 Speaker 1: movement is allowed her idea is opinions, belief and political ideology. 406 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:05,879 Speaker 1: Our fundamental value is empowering girls to be leaders in 407 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 1: their own lives by helping them build courage, confidence and 408 00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:12,159 Speaker 1: character to lift up their voices, champion their views, and 409 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:14,960 Speaker 1: be advocates for the issues and ideas important to them. 410 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 1: Girl Scout supports girls as they become catalysts for change 411 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:22,080 Speaker 1: who strengthen their communities. And it does sound like it 412 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:25,440 Speaker 1: makes sense for an organization that is all about civically 413 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 1: uplifting young people, particularly girls, that they would want to 414 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:33,639 Speaker 1: involve themselves with the president. But it does seems like 415 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,960 Speaker 1: something that with the Boy Scouts. It seems to illustrate 416 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 1: that it's something that maybe comes with political consequences. Perhaps. Yeah, 417 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:45,880 Speaker 1: I don't know. I think it's interesting because that statement 418 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: to me sounds like, hey, we're not as crazy progressive 419 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 1: as you think. We are appealing to right wing parents. 420 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:57,119 Speaker 1: That's interesting. And meanwhile, the Boy Scouts are allowing girls 421 00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:00,640 Speaker 1: and appealing to progressive parents, so they are both trying 422 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 1: to expand their turf. Yeah, and it almost sounds like, 423 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,760 Speaker 1: I gotta say it, from like a marketing perspective, the 424 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 1: Boy Scouts kind of doing a good job. I mean, 425 00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:10,320 Speaker 1: I think they'd beat the Girl Scouts the punch on 426 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 1: this one, because the Girl Scouts are trying to basically say, 427 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:18,399 Speaker 1: girls don't be fooled. The Boy Scouts are only allowing 428 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:23,000 Speaker 1: you in for marketing purposes, And so the question becomes 429 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:26,679 Speaker 1: doesn't matter if it's just a marketing grab, if it 430 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:29,639 Speaker 1: if it actually expands opportunity for girls, because here the 431 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,200 Speaker 1: Girl Scouts of America spokes folks said that they felt 432 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:35,199 Speaker 1: quote blindsided by the news, and they pointed out that 433 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:39,400 Speaker 1: plenty of research shows how much girls thrive in all 434 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:43,200 Speaker 1: female environments, and that's fair. There's a wealth of research 435 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:47,359 Speaker 1: that shows the value of all female environments for for girls, 436 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:51,639 Speaker 1: especially Katie Tuttle, a New York Times writer, penn and 437 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:56,160 Speaker 1: op ed that's called girls don't join the Boy Scouts 438 00:24:56,280 --> 00:25:00,080 Speaker 1: very subtle and described this move as quote a direct 439 00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:03,119 Speaker 1: a hack on the Girl Scouts. And so she and 440 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,439 Speaker 1: a lot of advocates on behalf of the Girl Scouts 441 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:11,359 Speaker 1: for America are saying this latest move for supposed inclusion 442 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:14,960 Speaker 1: is not a reflection of the Boy Scouts progressive values, 443 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 1: but rather a desperate move to stop the hemorrhaging membership 444 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:21,120 Speaker 1: numbers that they're looking at. I see, I don't even 445 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:23,920 Speaker 1: know where I fall one As someone who went to 446 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:27,840 Speaker 1: an all girls school, I absolutely agree that there's power 447 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:30,480 Speaker 1: in spaces for folks who identify as women, and that 448 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:33,440 Speaker 1: we need women inclusive spaces. I think that's very, very important. 449 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,960 Speaker 1: But I think it's about the kids part of me, 450 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 1: things who give us a crap. If this is a 451 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 1: you know, marketing scheme or a justs deployed to get 452 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 1: more money or whatever, if that leaves the Girl Scouts 453 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 1: high and dry, I don't really care. If it means 454 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,240 Speaker 1: more kids are getting access to things they want to 455 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,120 Speaker 1: do exactly. That's sort of where I'm at too, because 456 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:57,680 Speaker 1: to be fair, kids and parents alike have almost uniformly 457 00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:01,359 Speaker 1: expressed excitement about this dishion, and we're going to dive 458 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:12,439 Speaker 1: more into why that is after this quick break. All right, 459 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:14,960 Speaker 1: so we're back, and we're diving into the nuance behind 460 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,679 Speaker 1: the latest decision on behalf of the Boy Scouts of 461 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:23,720 Speaker 1: America to now accept starting girls into their cub Scout program. Now, 462 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:28,200 Speaker 1: throughout all the research we've done, almost nobody, no parent, 463 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,959 Speaker 1: no Scout leader, and no little boy has gone on 464 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,080 Speaker 1: the record saying we don't want girls in the Boy Scouts. 465 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 1: And you can take that for what it is. Maybe 466 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:40,120 Speaker 1: it's nobody wants to state that opinion in our very 467 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:44,520 Speaker 1: politically correct conversation we're having as a nation, And maybe 468 00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:48,640 Speaker 1: there's more covert and quiet and unconscious gender bias at 469 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:52,400 Speaker 1: play there for sure. Or perhaps this isn't that big 470 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 1: a deal to Boy Scouts. Perhaps allowing girls into the 471 00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 1: Boy Scouts isn't actually going to rock the boat. Well, 472 00:26:58,119 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 1: it actually doesn't sound like it's that big of a 473 00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:02,480 Speaker 1: deal at all. In reality, girls have long been part 474 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,000 Speaker 1: of the Boy Scouts in varying ways. Keep in mind 475 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:07,800 Speaker 1: that a lot of these troops are independently formed and organized, 476 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:09,760 Speaker 1: so they can kind of do what they want that 477 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,960 Speaker 1: includes involving girls. Girls were even formally admitted into the 478 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:16,640 Speaker 1: Exploring program in nineteen seventy one, but couldn't receive coveted 479 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 1: Eagle Scout status right which, to be fair, I mean, 480 00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 1: I think the Eagle Scout badge is pretty universally regarded 481 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:30,080 Speaker 1: as honorable and quite an achievement. I am biased because 482 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:32,199 Speaker 1: Brad the Boot is an Eagle Scout. That means he 483 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:34,680 Speaker 1: can survive a swim test with this close on r 484 00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:37,040 Speaker 1: that's like the final test, or like one of the 485 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:38,480 Speaker 1: big tests, but a lot of that a lot of 486 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 1: people fail, is that you have to swim with your 487 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:45,199 Speaker 1: boots only hard. Yeah, exactly. See. You know about the 488 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:47,720 Speaker 1: Eagle Scout exam more than I do, and I think 489 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,560 Speaker 1: you know. The Eagle Scout status is something that boys 490 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:53,600 Speaker 1: and young men put on their college application. Yeah. I 491 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,720 Speaker 1: remember my cousin. It's signed by the president, so he 492 00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:59,240 Speaker 1: has like it's like when you get your I don't know, 493 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:02,200 Speaker 1: diploma or certificate or whatever. It's signed by the current president. 494 00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 1: His was Bill Clinton, so it was always a big deal, like, oh, 495 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,360 Speaker 1: I've got Bill Clinton signature right here. And the Girl 496 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:12,720 Speaker 1: Scouts have an equivalent award. It's just not well regarded 497 00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 1: outside of the Girl Scouts. Was a Girl Scout. I 498 00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 1: don't even know what the award is. Yeah, it's called 499 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 1: the Gold Award, and unfortunately it gets blown off compared 500 00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:25,200 Speaker 1: to the Eagle Scout Award, even though the Gold Award, 501 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 1: the highest possible award you can earn in the Girl Scouts, 502 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 1: is just as impressive. Hallmark the Cardmaker has an entire 503 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:36,920 Speaker 1: series of cards specifically created just for congratulating Eagle Scouts. 504 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,280 Speaker 1: None of that exists for the Gold Award. Guidance counselors 505 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,520 Speaker 1: at schools all know what the Eagle Scout means and 506 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:47,080 Speaker 1: why that's so important to put on resumes and college applications, 507 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:49,320 Speaker 1: whereas only a very few folks know what the Gold 508 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:51,479 Speaker 1: Award is and you have to explain it to future 509 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,560 Speaker 1: employers and colleges, and it just it doesn't have the 510 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:58,760 Speaker 1: same reputation thanks a lot patriarchy. You the same thing 511 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 1: in college sports, where men's championship means so much and 512 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:04,840 Speaker 1: blah blah blah, but an equally successful women's team like, 513 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 1: no one really talks about it exact It's interesting how 514 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:09,560 Speaker 1: this stuff rears its head in so many ways, from 515 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 1: sports to Girl Scouts exactly. Now here's the thing. Since 516 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:15,640 Speaker 1: the seventies, girls have been a part of the Boy 517 00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:19,400 Speaker 1: Scouts exploring program. They've been allowed basically to do everything 518 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 1: you need to do to become an Eagle Scout except 519 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:25,960 Speaker 1: get the formal recognition. So this decision when it was 520 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 1: announced was actually lauded by a bunch of women who 521 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 1: did that program without the recognition. Oh, I see, they're 522 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:38,760 Speaker 1: saying girls should have access to the Eagle Scout Award. 523 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:41,920 Speaker 1: We all acknowledge that it's bs that the Gold Award 524 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:45,920 Speaker 1: isn't given its fair credit. But since everybody knows what 525 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:48,560 Speaker 1: the Eagle Scout Award is, girls should have equal access 526 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,120 Speaker 1: to getting it. And you know, I started this podcast 527 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 1: pretty agnostic, but that's fair. It's true. If you're gonna 528 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:56,600 Speaker 1: do all the things that go into getting this really 529 00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,719 Speaker 1: prestigious award except be able to get the prestigious award, 530 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:01,640 Speaker 1: that's messed up, and you should be able to get 531 00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:05,680 Speaker 1: it exactly regards exactly. So here's here's where this all 532 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:09,160 Speaker 1: shakes out. Really, the Boy Scouts, for all of their statements, 533 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:11,680 Speaker 1: from the leadership, to the troop leaders on the ground level, 534 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 1: to the boys who are being interviewed about this, they 535 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,680 Speaker 1: don't seem that worried about integrating girls at all. And 536 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,160 Speaker 1: maybe they're just being really good feminists, I don't know, 537 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,080 Speaker 1: or maybe it's a marketing strategy, but either way, they 538 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:27,760 Speaker 1: don't seem concerned. The Girl Scouts leadership, on the other hand, 539 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:33,800 Speaker 1: seems very concerned and extremely threatened, understandably, but still it 540 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 1: sort of made me uncomfortable as a feminist to hear 541 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:41,520 Speaker 1: the Girl Scouts of America uniformly slamming this move that 542 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:44,680 Speaker 1: the Boy Scouts made. Now here's the thing. To really 543 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:46,680 Speaker 1: get to the bottom of this, I think the New 544 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:51,280 Speaker 1: York Times podcast called The Daily did the best possible 545 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,640 Speaker 1: journalism they could do on this, which is they ran 546 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 1: a special episode of their podcast just for kids, really 547 00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 1: targeting a kid's audience that primarily drew from interviews with 548 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:08,280 Speaker 1: twin ten year old girls, Elsa and Cleo, who lived 549 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:11,120 Speaker 1: just outside of Boston, were Girl Scouts together for a 550 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:13,920 Speaker 1: long time, and one of them has now decided to 551 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,520 Speaker 1: join the Boy Scouts and the other one has decided 552 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:19,360 Speaker 1: to stay with the Girl Scouts. So here's what Alistair 553 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,360 Speaker 1: Mooved the Twins dad had to say when describing just 554 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,720 Speaker 1: how different these twins are, granted their fraternal twins, which 555 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 1: I think is maybe an important detail, but not only 556 00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:32,080 Speaker 1: in how their interests differ, how their nature differs from 557 00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:34,200 Speaker 1: one kid to the next. One is really extroverted and 558 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:36,560 Speaker 1: hyper and wants to be in the middle of the action. 559 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:40,400 Speaker 1: One is a little more introverted and more reflective and 560 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:44,720 Speaker 1: likes to listen to music a lot. But specifically, as 561 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,520 Speaker 1: the girls have come into their own identity in terms 562 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:50,280 Speaker 1: of how they choose to present here's what Alistair had 563 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:52,920 Speaker 1: to say, when they were babies, we always thought they 564 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:54,640 Speaker 1: looked very different from the time they came out their 565 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 1: fraternal twins non identical. They also present very differently in 566 00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:03,240 Speaker 1: how they've chosen as they've gotten older. To look, now 567 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:05,680 Speaker 1: that my hair is shorter, we don't look a lot like. 568 00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:08,360 Speaker 1: When Elsa cut her hair to the length that she 569 00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:12,600 Speaker 1: wanted it, it changed a lot of things for her. That, 570 00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:17,520 Speaker 1: combined with her preference of clothing that mostly comes off 571 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:22,800 Speaker 1: the boys racks, means that most kids and adults assume 572 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,880 Speaker 1: she's a boy. I like wearing like sweatpants and T shirts. 573 00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:30,440 Speaker 1: My favorite color is blue and green, so I wear 574 00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:33,479 Speaker 1: that kind of color stuff. First, first of all, I 575 00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 1: love that this family just lets their kids be their kids. 576 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,440 Speaker 1: And if their daughter wants to wear boys clothes and 577 00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:42,080 Speaker 1: cut her hair short and likes blue and green, that's okay. 578 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:44,600 Speaker 1: She's more aligned with what the Boy Scouts has to 579 00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:46,640 Speaker 1: offer than what the Girl Scouts has to offer. She 580 00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,840 Speaker 1: should pursue that. Kudos to this family. We're letting their 581 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:53,640 Speaker 1: kids express themselves, and haven't that be okay? We should 582 00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:57,480 Speaker 1: all get that space exactly. And so after these two 583 00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 1: Elsa and Cleo were in the Girl Scouts for years. Elsa, 584 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 1: the one who is a self reported tomboy in this case, 585 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:08,200 Speaker 1: she on her own accord, realized girl Scouts were not 586 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:11,880 Speaker 1: quite working for her. Klio, on the other hand, loves 587 00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:14,720 Speaker 1: being around all girls, saying that, you know, it's nice 588 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:16,680 Speaker 1: to just get away from the boys for a little while, 589 00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:19,920 Speaker 1: who can be kind of distracting, and she likes the 590 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:23,520 Speaker 1: sort of pace of how her Scout troop leader sets 591 00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,600 Speaker 1: the tone and what that all girl environment is like 592 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:31,320 Speaker 1: for her, whereas Elsa wanted to go hiking and climbing 593 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:34,480 Speaker 1: and get a pocket knife and wanted to do more rugged, 594 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:39,440 Speaker 1: rough and tumble outdoorsy things. So even before this decision 595 00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:44,160 Speaker 1: came down alistair, their dad helped Elsa get into the 596 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:46,720 Speaker 1: local Boy Scouts, and the Scout troop leader there said, sure, 597 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:49,320 Speaker 1: come on by no problem, even before they were given 598 00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:52,520 Speaker 1: that sort of formal permission from the boy Scout leadership. 599 00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:56,120 Speaker 1: So this family was excited about this decision. And I 600 00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:58,640 Speaker 1: think it's important to note that once involved with the 601 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:01,360 Speaker 1: Boy Scouts, she Floor wished it wasn't as if the 602 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:04,000 Speaker 1: boys thought, you, there's a girl in our ranks. Blah blah, 603 00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:06,120 Speaker 1: blah and gave her a hard time. In fact, they 604 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:08,960 Speaker 1: ended up voting her the leader of their group. You 605 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,839 Speaker 1: have to hear from these adorable boys in her boys 606 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:15,400 Speaker 1: got troop. Hello, this is Dolan. If anyone is just 607 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:21,160 Speaker 1: secretly telling her like why you boys? Yeah, just why 608 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:26,040 Speaker 1: why would you do that? Because you know what, also 609 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:29,640 Speaker 1: can do lots of things and it takes lots of 610 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:33,280 Speaker 1: bravery to step up and be a leader. Because lots 611 00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:35,600 Speaker 1: of people do want to be a leader, but it 612 00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:40,840 Speaker 1: takes true bravery to be a real leader. Doesn't that 613 00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:43,919 Speaker 1: just the story your faith in humanity? Okay, first of all, 614 00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:46,719 Speaker 1: Dylan might be the only male that I trust in 615 00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:49,840 Speaker 1: the world right now, Dylan, you just won my Ally 616 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:54,400 Speaker 1: of the Year award. Congratulations, you are a great feminist 617 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:58,440 Speaker 1: male ally and I applaud you, and like boys restored 618 00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,440 Speaker 1: my faith in humanity. I I'm joking, but like I 619 00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:03,840 Speaker 1: needed to hear that. Sometimes we get I get so 620 00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:07,759 Speaker 1: stuck in my head of like Trump and horrible men 621 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:11,520 Speaker 1: and Weinstein's. It's important to remember that the younger generation, 622 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,760 Speaker 1: they might be okay, they might be leading the way 623 00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:18,000 Speaker 1: in ways that we maybe want to but can't. And 624 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:21,480 Speaker 1: when you listen to these little kids advocating for Elsa 625 00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:24,040 Speaker 1: doing whatever she wants to do, Elsa being able to 626 00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:26,560 Speaker 1: do anything she wants, Elsa being a great leader. They're 627 00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,600 Speaker 1: lucky to have the contributions of a leader like Elsa. 628 00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:31,799 Speaker 1: And don't be mean to Elsa. If you're out there 629 00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,040 Speaker 1: being secretly mean to her, don't do it. It's a 630 00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:37,480 Speaker 1: good reminder that young people are really paving the way, 631 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,600 Speaker 1: and it makes me wonder why can't the Girl Scouts 632 00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:44,680 Speaker 1: leadership listen to Elsa and Dylan. Well, that's the thing 633 00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:46,759 Speaker 1: is that to me, this is a moment where the 634 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,480 Speaker 1: boy Scouts are saying, whether they're saying it or not, 635 00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:51,560 Speaker 1: which I kind of wish they were more explicit about it, 636 00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:55,440 Speaker 1: we have the opportunity to change the narrative around masculinity. 637 00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,319 Speaker 1: And here's what our plan is for that. You know, 638 00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:03,800 Speaker 1: like this is Dylan is explaining that toxic masculinity isn't born. 639 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,840 Speaker 1: It's bread what I'm saying. Dylan is more wokes than 640 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,040 Speaker 1: a lot of dudes I know who are like twice 641 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:12,320 Speaker 1: as a Yeah, exactly, And the Girl Scouts of America, 642 00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 1: in my opinion, have an opportunity to do the same. 643 00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:19,400 Speaker 1: And right now, tearing down the Boy Scouts doesn't make 644 00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:22,040 Speaker 1: them look that good, doesn't really, you know, even if 645 00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:25,080 Speaker 1: it's true, even if this is a marketing ploy, if 646 00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:27,200 Speaker 1: this is what's happening on the local level, I'm all 647 00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:30,040 Speaker 1: about it. And I think this really is reflective of 648 00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:32,920 Speaker 1: what I think the model should be. The Boy Scouts 649 00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:34,759 Speaker 1: and the Girl Scouts can be on the same team. 650 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,480 Speaker 1: If the team is getting kids interested in things and 651 00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:40,280 Speaker 1: getting them civically engaged and making them into strong leaders. 652 00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,080 Speaker 1: It doesn't matter if they would rather be going on 653 00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:45,720 Speaker 1: heights with a pocket knife or you know, playing piano 654 00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:48,680 Speaker 1: and drawing and putting peanut butter on pine cones. Whatever 655 00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:51,000 Speaker 1: it is that the kid wants to do. We should 656 00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:53,600 Speaker 1: be fostering that. And it shouldn't be this weird division 657 00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,480 Speaker 1: that's about turf and about money and about marketing and 658 00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:58,640 Speaker 1: all of that. It's really about the kids, and I 659 00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:02,160 Speaker 1: hate to see that it seems like that has gotten 660 00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:04,480 Speaker 1: a little bit lost, particularly in the statements coming out 661 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:08,040 Speaker 1: of the Girl Scouts exactly. And so when talking to 662 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:11,560 Speaker 1: Elsa and Cleo, the journalists over at the New York Times, 663 00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:15,239 Speaker 1: the Daily asked, you know, would you rather see more 664 00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:19,239 Speaker 1: of the Girl Scouts activities become a little more outdoors focused, 665 00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:22,680 Speaker 1: or would you rather have the doors open at the 666 00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:25,560 Speaker 1: Boy Scouts for girls to join, right, because we know 667 00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:30,239 Speaker 1: that they do different activities, not necessarily by force, but 668 00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:34,520 Speaker 1: by culture. Right, The cultures of these organizations encourage a 669 00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:38,080 Speaker 1: different kind of activity set and their father Alistair really 670 00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:41,960 Speaker 1: answered this question pretty clearly. For Elsa, she wanted to 671 00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:45,120 Speaker 1: be in the Boy Scouts, and she has her own 672 00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:51,800 Speaker 1: reasons for that. It really comes down to what feels 673 00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:55,000 Speaker 1: empowering to them. So where does that leave us? I mean, 674 00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:58,960 Speaker 1: girls have this unprecedented choice now, which I think is 675 00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:02,279 Speaker 1: an empowering one, whereas the Girl Scouts of America might 676 00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:06,319 Speaker 1: say it's a sinister one on the local level. When 677 00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:10,520 Speaker 1: it comes to girls like Cleo and Elsa, they are 678 00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:12,840 Speaker 1: now in a position of really being able to choose 679 00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:16,080 Speaker 1: which organization speaks to them. I worry this is gonna 680 00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:19,360 Speaker 1: come off sounding a little bit heartless, but ultimately I 681 00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:22,840 Speaker 1: care a lot more about Elsa and Cleo and boys 682 00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:26,839 Speaker 1: like Dylan that I do about the national leadership of 683 00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:30,720 Speaker 1: Scouting organizations. What I really care about is that Elsa 684 00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:33,400 Speaker 1: feels like she's in a community that understands her and 685 00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:35,480 Speaker 1: where she is learning to be her best self, and 686 00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:39,000 Speaker 1: that Dylan and Cleo also have those same opportunities. And 687 00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:42,560 Speaker 1: if having the Boy Scouts being open to girls is 688 00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:44,359 Speaker 1: going to do that, then that's what I want to do. 689 00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:47,600 Speaker 1: I understand this argument that the Boy Scouts are being 690 00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:50,080 Speaker 1: disingenuous and YadA, YadA, YadA, But at the end of 691 00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:52,160 Speaker 1: the day, what I really care about is the kids, 692 00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:54,160 Speaker 1: and it sounds like this has been good for the kids. 693 00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:57,319 Speaker 1: I think so too, But it also makes me question, like, 694 00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:01,320 Speaker 1: what should Scouting look like in a host gender world. 695 00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:04,200 Speaker 1: I mean, we can look internationally two branches that have 696 00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:07,719 Speaker 1: merged years ago and see how they're doing it. We 697 00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:10,840 Speaker 1: can run with the focus on social justice from the 698 00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:12,880 Speaker 1: Girl Scouts, which I think is a great thing to 699 00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:17,080 Speaker 1: take with us across the Scouting universe. We can run 700 00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:21,799 Speaker 1: with the focus on outdoorsmanship or outdoors person ship and 701 00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:25,160 Speaker 1: really that focus on self reliance that the Boy Scouts 702 00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:27,279 Speaker 1: seemed to have champions so well, I'd love to see 703 00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:29,440 Speaker 1: them come together. And it feels to me like a 704 00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:32,640 Speaker 1: better butter battle Dr SEUs style, you know what I mean? 705 00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:34,759 Speaker 1: Do you put your butter on the top of the 706 00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:38,799 Speaker 1: bottom that whole Doctor SEUs War analogy that was so 707 00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:42,200 Speaker 1: brilliant because nobody really cares how you butter your bread. 708 00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:44,759 Speaker 1: But that's the kind of that adults fight about, and 709 00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:47,160 Speaker 1: this feels like one of those situations. It feels like 710 00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:50,000 Speaker 1: we're missing the point. The point is that kids need 711 00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:53,720 Speaker 1: to be cultivated into leaders and given choice to express 712 00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:57,640 Speaker 1: themselves however they want. And the separation, though it is historic, 713 00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:00,640 Speaker 1: and though it is grounded in different five oh one 714 00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:04,239 Speaker 1: c three filings, I roll like it makes you just 715 00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:07,040 Speaker 1: want to roll your eyes and think grown ups ruining everything. 716 00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:10,560 Speaker 1: Get it together, Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts of America 717 00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:14,080 Speaker 1: and do what is the right thing for our young people, 718 00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:16,640 Speaker 1: which is bring them together in a post gender way. 719 00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:19,120 Speaker 1: Why can't we do that? Yeah, if Woke Dylan can 720 00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:22,200 Speaker 1: do it, you can do it exactly. And speaking of 721 00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:24,879 Speaker 1: Woke Dylan, there are little boys out there who want 722 00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:28,399 Speaker 1: to be girl Scouts. And I almost wish we could 723 00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:30,440 Speaker 1: pick and choose our favorite parts of boy Scouts and 724 00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:32,920 Speaker 1: girl Scouts and bring them together in one Scout. Like 725 00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:35,879 Speaker 1: just listen to how the boy Scouts in Else's troop 726 00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:39,959 Speaker 1: talk about girl Scout cookies. Partly I don't really speak. 727 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:42,440 Speaker 1: It's fair for boys because they can't be a Girl Scout. 728 00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:45,680 Speaker 1: One of the reasons because I want to sell cookies. 729 00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:49,440 Speaker 1: You want to sell cookies. The cookie factor. Yes, agreed, 730 00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:55,600 Speaker 1: the cookie factor is real. I agree cookies are dope. 731 00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:57,480 Speaker 1: I agree with these kids. They really they really know 732 00:40:57,520 --> 00:40:59,719 Speaker 1: what they're talking about. They know the best parts of 733 00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:02,840 Speaker 1: both brand, and they know what resonates with them. Like 734 00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:05,920 Speaker 1: the point is, I think we should trust kids to 735 00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:09,880 Speaker 1: know what speaks to them. And if Dylan is moved 736 00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:13,040 Speaker 1: by the prospect of cookies or quote the cookie factor 737 00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:16,719 Speaker 1: as he puts it, that's cool, exactly no offense. But 738 00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:19,879 Speaker 1: selling popcorn just doesn't make the cut like the same 739 00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:22,360 Speaker 1: way the Girl Scout cookies do. So let's bring Eagle 740 00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:26,800 Speaker 1: Scout badges together with thin mints. Let's bring the Pinewood 741 00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:31,160 Speaker 1: Derby together with caring and supporting and loving one another 742 00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:36,440 Speaker 1: and uplifting urban renewal projects and fighting for social justice. Like, 743 00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:40,960 Speaker 1: there is the potential for a much stronger brand if 744 00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:43,560 Speaker 1: Girl Scouts of America and Boy Scouts of America can 745 00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:47,799 Speaker 1: come together and be bigger on this one. And I 746 00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:50,319 Speaker 1: I honestly I know we're gonna get some grief from 747 00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:53,040 Speaker 1: hardcore Girl Scouts advocates out there. Bridget and I are 748 00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:56,920 Speaker 1: both Girl Scout what it's like dropouts, Yeah, the linquents, Yeah, 749 00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:00,960 Speaker 1: we're Girl Scout dropouts to be clear, um, But as 750 00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:04,960 Speaker 1: an outdoors woman myself, as someone who really loves hiking 751 00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:09,359 Speaker 1: and climbing and mountain biking and skiing and camping, and 752 00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:11,920 Speaker 1: the moment we find ourselves in with like ari e 753 00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:16,600 Speaker 1: I and brands like Athleta really embracing the fierce feminine 754 00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:19,799 Speaker 1: component of embracing the outdoors. I think this is an 755 00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:22,399 Speaker 1: opportunity for Scouting in the United States to really enter 756 00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:25,520 Speaker 1: a new era. But it's gonna take grown ups getting along. Yeah, 757 00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:28,560 Speaker 1: it's tough for me as a vocal advocate of women 758 00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:32,080 Speaker 1: identified spaces. You know, I've mentioned a zillion times. As 759 00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:35,280 Speaker 1: a teacher, I've seen the way that sometimes little girls 760 00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:38,240 Speaker 1: do just want to do their own thing, and little 761 00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:40,360 Speaker 1: boys can be a little bit distracting to them. And 762 00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:43,160 Speaker 1: I think a lot like Cleo seems to agree with 763 00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:45,399 Speaker 1: that sometimes those spaces are important. So I'm not gonna 764 00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:47,720 Speaker 1: I don't want to say that the Girl Scouts are awful, 765 00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:50,440 Speaker 1: but I just think that we should be advocating for 766 00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:55,400 Speaker 1: leadership and organizations that make kids more accountable for what 767 00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:56,960 Speaker 1: they want to be doing and how they want to 768 00:42:56,960 --> 00:42:58,719 Speaker 1: grow up and how they see themselves and how they 769 00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:02,759 Speaker 1: feel comfortable. Yeah, that is the one, really harry part 770 00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:06,520 Speaker 1: of this that makes it nuanced and complicated and not 771 00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:09,720 Speaker 1: so easy to see a post gender Scout world because 772 00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:13,960 Speaker 1: girls faces, all girls spaces are valuable in a different 773 00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:17,279 Speaker 1: way than mixed gender spaces are. So it's just I 774 00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:19,520 Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, I think I guess the next 775 00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:21,439 Speaker 1: move is up to the Girl Scouts of America. I'm 776 00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:23,279 Speaker 1: curious to see what their next move is going to be. 777 00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:25,759 Speaker 1: The boy Scouts have opened the doors to girls, well 778 00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:29,360 Speaker 1: the girl Scouts open the doors to boys or like, really, 779 00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:34,040 Speaker 1: my business is pretty adamantly focused on saying until women 780 00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:36,160 Speaker 1: and girls are running the world, we're gonna focus on girls, 781 00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:38,640 Speaker 1: you know what I mean? And making that focus choice 782 00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:41,719 Speaker 1: is not a bad one. So I don't know, it's complicated. 783 00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:46,319 Speaker 1: I'm I leave this conversation more ambivalent than I started it, 784 00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:48,360 Speaker 1: And I feel like we waffled on this one a 785 00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:51,480 Speaker 1: little bit because the waffle is real, because it's tricky. 786 00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:53,120 Speaker 1: I can see both sides of the issue, and I'm 787 00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:56,640 Speaker 1: wondering what are listeners have to say. Yeah, to be clear, 788 00:43:56,920 --> 00:44:00,000 Speaker 1: I definitely don't have a answer. I think it's a complicated, 789 00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:03,080 Speaker 1: nuanced issue, and we're really interested to hear, especially from 790 00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:05,880 Speaker 1: former Scouts, from folks who have their own kids involved 791 00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:08,239 Speaker 1: in scouting. What do you think? Where do you follow 792 00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:09,880 Speaker 1: on this issue? We want to hear from you. You 793 00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:12,279 Speaker 1: can find us on Instagram at stuff I've Never Told You, 794 00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:15,279 Speaker 1: on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast, and as always, we 795 00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:17,920 Speaker 1: love getting your emails at mom stuff at how stuff 796 00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:30,279 Speaker 1: works dot com.