WEBVTT - Ariyanto And The Djinn 0:00:02.320 --> 0:00:05.280 Welcome to The Hidden Gin, a production of I Heart 0:00:05.400 --> 0:00:30.600 Radio and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Manky. Hi, and 0:00:30.760 --> 0:00:34.199 welcome to this very special bonus series of The Hidden Gin. 0:00:34.880 --> 0:00:38.239 The interviews in these episodes, you'll hear me talk to 0:00:38.280 --> 0:00:41.559 people from all walks of life who have had GIN experiences, 0:00:41.880 --> 0:00:44.879 are drawn through the stories of Gin and draw lessons 0:00:44.960 --> 0:00:49.560 from these stories. You'll hear from artists, scholars, writers, journalists, 0:00:49.560 --> 0:00:53.120 and gin exorcists, and even from me as I discuss 0:00:53.200 --> 0:00:55.880 how and why this series came about in a very 0:00:55.920 --> 0:01:00.680 personal conversation with my husband. Thanks for listening and enjoy 0:01:05.440 --> 0:01:07.800 this week. I am excited to bring to you an 0:01:07.920 --> 0:01:10.560 interview with not just one, but two people, a father 0:01:10.680 --> 0:01:14.119 and daughter team that I discovered when I came upon 0:01:14.319 --> 0:01:17.959 a podcast called Archipela Ghosts. First of all, it's such 0:01:17.959 --> 0:01:19.840 a clever name, and the reason I discovered it was 0:01:19.840 --> 0:01:21.800 because they actually were listening to The Hidden Gin and 0:01:21.800 --> 0:01:24.840 they tweeted at us, and I was enthralled, and so 0:01:25.000 --> 0:01:27.959 I took a listen, and believe it or not, they 0:01:28.000 --> 0:01:30.800 talked about Jin the very first episode. One of the 0:01:30.840 --> 0:01:34.880 hosts in that episode was interviewing her own father, Ariento, 0:01:35.040 --> 0:01:39.400 an amazing man who had an entire lifetime of experience 0:01:39.440 --> 0:01:43.280 with gin. Now, both Anissa and of course her father Ayento, 0:01:43.760 --> 0:01:48.320 are from Indonesia and so their experience with this entity 0:01:48.720 --> 0:01:51.440 is culturally different than mine. But I was fascinated and 0:01:51.480 --> 0:01:53.600 hoped and I said, listen, I would love to talk 0:01:53.640 --> 0:01:56.200 to you guys more. I want to learn more from Arienta. 0:01:56.280 --> 0:01:57.800 So let me tell you a little bit about Anissa 0:01:58.200 --> 0:02:02.120 and Ariento. Anissa grew up in Australia and Indonesia. She 0:02:02.160 --> 0:02:05.040 studied arts at the University in Sydney, and she worked 0:02:05.040 --> 0:02:07.200 in various positions actually in the film industry for about 0:02:07.200 --> 0:02:11.240 fifteen years, including doing exhibition and distribution. Last year she 0:02:11.280 --> 0:02:13.480 moved the United States. She lives near Philly right now. 0:02:13.680 --> 0:02:16.320 She loves all things spooky, is an avid reader of 0:02:16.400 --> 0:02:20.040 historical fiction, and of course now the co host of 0:02:20.280 --> 0:02:24.600 Archipela Ghosts, a very cool podcast. Now. Her father, Aranto, 0:02:25.080 --> 0:02:27.400 is sixty seven years old. He was born in East 0:02:27.480 --> 0:02:31.200 Java and Indonesia. He had moved to Australia after marrying 0:02:31.240 --> 0:02:33.920 an Australian woman, where they lived for many years. And 0:02:33.960 --> 0:02:36.679 he comes from a really large family, eight or nine siblings. 0:02:37.080 --> 0:02:40.280 Now he studied civil engineering, but then when he came 0:02:40.280 --> 0:02:43.320 back to Indonesia from Australia, he actually started his own 0:02:43.360 --> 0:02:47.200 advertising agency. He also plays music's very Fond Jazz and 0:02:47.360 --> 0:02:50.519 is an art director by skill. Now, it would seem 0:02:50.600 --> 0:02:52.919 that none of these things kind of line up with 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:56.320 what you're about to hear in terms of his experience 0:02:56.400 --> 0:03:03.840 and abilities with the supernatural, but prepare to be amazed. Um. 0:03:03.880 --> 0:03:05.639 First of all, I want our listeners to know it's 0:03:05.680 --> 0:03:07.520 like ten pm at night. Anissa and I are on 0:03:07.520 --> 0:03:10.200 the East Coast in the United States, but Arianta is 0:03:10.240 --> 0:03:12.320 all the way across the globe in where are you 0:03:12.440 --> 0:03:17.800 right now? And Jakarta, Jakarta and Indonesia. Thank you so much, 0:03:17.880 --> 0:03:20.160 Thank you so much for organ for Agreen to come on. 0:03:20.200 --> 0:03:24.280 It's a weekend, so it's early in the morning for you. 0:03:24.360 --> 0:03:27.320 It's great. UM. So I told our listeners a little 0:03:27.360 --> 0:03:29.840 bit about you guys before we jumped on the call 0:03:30.040 --> 0:03:32.639 and UM, but I first want to actually start off 0:03:32.639 --> 0:03:36.480 by Anissa, how I kind of discovered you and your show, 0:03:36.520 --> 0:03:38.040 and I want you to tell us a little bit 0:03:38.040 --> 0:03:40.800 about um with you, a little bit of your personal 0:03:40.800 --> 0:03:43.680 background and then how you came to do this podcast. 0:03:43.720 --> 0:03:49.720 About like Indonesian ghosts basically. Okay, So, um, I've had 0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:52.560 this podcast called a Cappella Guys, and it's still very 0:03:52.640 --> 0:03:55.440 very new. It's only like, I think, two episodes out now. 0:03:56.000 --> 0:03:59.800 But it came about from one day I was speaking 0:03:59.800 --> 0:04:02.760 with my husband and my brother. I asked him he 0:04:02.840 --> 0:04:05.680 had this story which is in his episode, about when 0:04:05.760 --> 0:04:08.680 he sort of had an encounter possibly with the supernatural 0:04:08.720 --> 0:04:13.320 being um A Gin possibly, and UM I sort of 0:04:13.360 --> 0:04:15.800 thought to myself, this, this is like really fun, and 0:04:15.840 --> 0:04:17.680 I think a lot of people don't know about this 0:04:17.720 --> 0:04:24.919 kind of stuff from Indonesia, um, the crazy different beings 0:04:25.000 --> 0:04:29.160 and mystical things that that are that are around, and 0:04:29.400 --> 0:04:31.880 Indonesia itself as a country I think is not maybe 0:04:32.080 --> 0:04:36.440 quite as known around the world as well. So Um, 0:04:36.640 --> 0:04:40.320 I come from a film industry background. Most of my 0:04:40.520 --> 0:04:43.480 working life has been in the film industry, so I've 0:04:43.520 --> 0:04:47.320 always been really attracted to and interested in just telling 0:04:47.400 --> 0:04:52.719 stories in general, and um experiencing different kinds of um 0:04:52.760 --> 0:04:55.400 like because I really love documentaries, different kinds of people's 0:04:55.400 --> 0:04:57.280 backgrounds and all that kind of stuff. So I thought 0:04:57.560 --> 0:05:00.560 be really like, I obviously can't make going to into 0:05:00.600 --> 0:05:03.360 Indonesia at the moment because we're all on sort of 0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:06.880 not lockdown really, but we're not allowed to leave the country. 0:05:06.920 --> 0:05:08.720 But that would have been great. But so I thought 0:05:08.760 --> 0:05:11.600 instead of making like a little documentary series, I could 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:14.480 do a podcast instead. Um, and so is this your 0:05:14.520 --> 0:05:18.200 first podcast? The first time podcasting? Um? A few years ago. 0:05:18.240 --> 0:05:20.760 I did have one that didn't last very long. It 0:05:20.839 --> 0:05:23.920 was with a friend of mine from Australia. Was a 0:05:23.960 --> 0:05:28.279 horror film podcast, so we'd watch horror seasons. Like a 0:05:28.360 --> 0:05:30.960 trend here. It's a little bit of a trend, kind 0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:33.400 of like a little ghostie kind of trend. So yeah, 0:05:34.120 --> 0:05:36.840 well let me ask you so and so, you clearly 0:05:36.880 --> 0:05:39.160 have kind of a creative streak and you'd like to 0:05:39.200 --> 0:05:40.920 tell stories. What about you do have a bit of 0:05:40.960 --> 0:05:43.679 a creative background as as your father? Is she getting 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:49.440 this from you? Well? I usually I'm basically right right 0:05:49.839 --> 0:05:55.280 hand brain for somewhere. I always been a in secreative 0:05:55.360 --> 0:05:58.279 person since I was you know, as long as I remember, 0:05:58.360 --> 0:06:02.680 you know, But I don't know. Somehow I ended up 0:06:02.720 --> 0:06:07.200 started the civil engineering and only to find out that, 0:06:07.640 --> 0:06:11.560 you know, it doesn't really suit me. So I went 0:06:11.640 --> 0:06:17.000 to Australia basically just for your adventuring and ended up 0:06:17.040 --> 0:06:21.200 studies in advertising and design. So you're from civil engineering 0:06:21.240 --> 0:06:23.840 to advertise it, so that means like a creative field. Really, 0:06:24.440 --> 0:06:28.200 that's right. Yeah, so since then I are working at 0:06:28.240 --> 0:06:35.680 you in an advertising industry. Um, after sixteen years in Australia, 0:06:35.680 --> 0:06:39.160 as I decided to come back to Indonesia because at 0:06:39.160 --> 0:06:43.200 the time, you know, advertising was were really booming here. 0:06:44.000 --> 0:06:47.400 So I came to Indonesia and it started my uh 0:06:47.640 --> 0:06:53.279 own agency and yeah, so basically I'm a creative person myself. Yeah. 0:06:53.800 --> 0:07:00.800 And you played jazz, yes, I played yes, right, So 0:07:00.800 --> 0:07:04.080 so yeah, but I don't hear in any of your 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:08.279 backgrounds like this theme that connects to like the supernatural 0:07:08.560 --> 0:07:10.400 or the paranormal or any of that. Is that just 0:07:10.440 --> 0:07:12.440 something like it is something like you kind of grew 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:14.960 up with a nissa. Are these like stories you told 0:07:15.000 --> 0:07:19.080 your daughter? Areent? Like? How? Why? Why is this family 0:07:19.120 --> 0:07:23.120 interested in this? Did you sit around the dinner table 0:07:23.120 --> 0:07:27.440 and talk about this? Actually it's not. It's quite right, 0:07:27.560 --> 0:07:30.360 you know, because we've been growing up with this kind 0:07:30.360 --> 0:07:34.960 of you know, we don't we don't really call it supernatural, 0:07:35.040 --> 0:07:38.520 which as a young young kid, we know we know 0:07:38.600 --> 0:07:41.920 what there is uh, what you call that a ghost? 0:07:42.240 --> 0:07:46.280 So basically we grow grow up with this kind of thinking. 0:07:47.320 --> 0:07:50.960 Uh not until we not until we've grown grown up 0:07:51.000 --> 0:07:55.480 and learns about a little bit about religions and understood 0:07:55.520 --> 0:08:04.200 that this entity called gene right, So uh in Indonesia, 0:08:05.680 --> 0:08:09.080 this kind of thing is just like maybe similar in 0:08:09.240 --> 0:08:13.440 other Muslim country. It's just like part of daily daily things. 0:08:13.480 --> 0:08:15.840 You know, we talked about our experience. Oh you know 0:08:15.960 --> 0:08:18.400 last night, this is what happened, and what happened. Oh yeah, 0:08:18.440 --> 0:08:20.840 and you have differences and yeah, I said the same thing. 0:08:21.280 --> 0:08:23.880 So it just becomes like a daily things, you know, 0:08:24.040 --> 0:08:27.880 just like part of a you know, like everyday life, 0:08:27.880 --> 0:08:31.960 part of everyday, everyday life exactly. Know, so we do 0:08:32.040 --> 0:08:37.400 we never really sort of surprise, but what's happening with 0:08:37.480 --> 0:08:40.440 other people because oh yeah, yeah, I sum it is 0:08:40.440 --> 0:08:42.600 the same thing and it's sort of things you know. 0:08:43.240 --> 0:08:47.480 So so that's interesting. You know. Um, in my family, 0:08:47.679 --> 0:08:49.840 you know I come from a Muslim family, they are 0:08:50.360 --> 0:08:52.760 how do I say this? My family was not like 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:58.199 super um spiritual. We never talked about I wanted to 0:08:58.280 --> 0:09:00.600 as a kid, we never did. And I would just 0:09:00.679 --> 0:09:03.280 like crave it from other families, you know, like in 0:09:03.320 --> 0:09:05.000 other families that are more like kind of sufie and 0:09:05.000 --> 0:09:09.000 more mystical families, more they practice the religion and more 0:09:09.040 --> 0:09:11.600 aceteche of fashion. But it sounds like like this was 0:09:11.640 --> 0:09:14.600 so much part of the kind of the culture, the 0:09:14.640 --> 0:09:16.839 in an age of culture that wasn't considered something that 0:09:17.200 --> 0:09:20.080 people would look at and think, well, that's kind of weird. Um, 0:09:20.080 --> 0:09:21.920 like this is this kind of an accepted reality. Is 0:09:21.960 --> 0:09:24.600 that what it was like for you growing up on Issa? Yeah, 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:27.400 I think that's pretty spot on actually, because it is 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:29.280 so this is something I think I talk about a 0:09:29.360 --> 0:09:31.720 lot when in the podcast, but also when I explained 0:09:31.760 --> 0:09:34.000 to people is it is so much a part of 0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:37.240 everyday life that it's not odd and it's not something 0:09:37.280 --> 0:09:39.839 we think of mentioning. Oh, by the way, there are 0:09:39.840 --> 0:09:42.480 these there are a lot of these supernatural stories or 0:09:42.840 --> 0:09:46.280 mystical beings around. It's just you know, people have jobs, 0:09:46.360 --> 0:09:49.400 people go to school, and this kind of stuff is 0:09:49.440 --> 0:09:52.120 part of everyday life. So it's not really always something 0:09:52.160 --> 0:09:55.400 that you think to mention or to single out specifically. 0:09:55.440 --> 0:09:59.240 In a sense, it's just part of the the blanket 0:09:59.320 --> 0:10:02.520 of life in Indonesia. I guess now the interesting thing 0:10:02.520 --> 0:10:04.800 to me, And I think I heard you speak about 0:10:04.840 --> 0:10:07.880 this a bit in the episode I heard um with 0:10:07.920 --> 0:10:11.240 Orianda on it is that this is not it's not 0:10:11.320 --> 0:10:16.040 really limited to like Indonesian Muslims. I mean, Indonesia is 0:10:16.120 --> 0:10:19.800 a diverse country with there are other religious populations there, 0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:22.120 and so is this more cultural that it is religious? 0:10:22.160 --> 0:10:26.160 Would you? Would you guys say yeah, definitely, yeah, because 0:10:26.440 --> 0:10:29.480 um Dad might know more about this sort of than 0:10:29.520 --> 0:10:33.160 I do, especially has lived there longer. But Um, the 0:10:33.720 --> 0:10:38.160 history of Indonesia was there was like the animism, dynamism, 0:10:38.280 --> 0:10:41.839 um beliefs before any religions came, and that already it 0:10:41.920 --> 0:10:45.200 was quite spiritual. But then Hinduism came, Buddhism came, then 0:10:45.520 --> 0:10:48.040 Islam came, but there was always that belief in a 0:10:48.080 --> 0:10:51.280 super spiritual and a supernatural before any religion. So I 0:10:51.360 --> 0:10:55.040 think that's why all Indonesians, regardless of their beliefs. Do 0:10:55.080 --> 0:10:57.960 you believe in some form of this kind of stuff? 0:10:59.440 --> 0:11:01.760 I mean that kind of that's pretty yeah. Okay, can 0:11:01.800 --> 0:11:03.880 you expand on that a bit because what's interesting to 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:05.880 me about Okay again, my family from Bakas is a 0:11:05.920 --> 0:11:09.800 majority of Muslim Sunni Muslim country, very very tiny populations 0:11:09.840 --> 0:11:13.720 of Hindus and Christians and Seeks very tiny populations. And 0:11:13.720 --> 0:11:16.800 there is absolutely i would say, other than some cultural 0:11:16.840 --> 0:11:19.000 practices like that the food you eat or the way 0:11:19.040 --> 0:11:22.160 you dress, there's like zero, i would say, almost zero 0:11:22.320 --> 0:11:25.760 overlap with a lot of the spiritual beliefs. So can 0:11:25.800 --> 0:11:27.040 you add, can you talk to me a little bit 0:11:27.080 --> 0:11:30.839 about how that how that exists Indonesia because these are 0:11:30.920 --> 0:11:34.680 very different religious traditions Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, They're very very 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:42.280 different religions. Yeah. Well, bas basically because um, when Islam 0:11:42.360 --> 0:11:48.560 came to Indonesia, Uh, they they you know, they they 0:11:48.679 --> 0:11:53.800 found a little bit of what you call that rejection 0:11:54.880 --> 0:12:01.120 because of the cultures at the time, basically Hinduism and 0:12:01.160 --> 0:12:05.080 Buddhism and Buddhism. So they found a way how to 0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:11.560 to make the people accept Islam by a little bit 0:12:11.640 --> 0:12:16.760 combining between both. Oh okay, there was some compromise there 0:12:16.800 --> 0:12:21.000 that they said exactly, there's some compromised For example, like 0:12:21.920 --> 0:12:25.960 Hinduism they do all of a ritual of offering and 0:12:26.080 --> 0:12:29.520 sort of stuff, while and Muslim we don't have that 0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:33.839 sort of thing. So how they do it and they 0:12:33.920 --> 0:12:36.839 just allowed to do the thing but just change slightly 0:12:36.960 --> 0:12:41.360 with the intention of for God instead of for you know, 0:12:41.679 --> 0:12:44.360 the Kindu is God sort of thing. So that sort 0:12:44.840 --> 0:12:49.120 so this sort of compromise uh that that to you know, 0:12:49.280 --> 0:12:53.240 to to be lieve just to get the islams uh 0:12:53.800 --> 0:12:57.960 accepted by the people at that time. And this goes 0:12:58.240 --> 0:13:01.400 in the you know, for a long says and until 0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:06.800 finally people are really understood about Islam and accepted as 0:13:07.600 --> 0:13:12.359 you know, Islam itself without being what you got influenced 0:13:12.360 --> 0:13:16.080 by other beliefs sort of thing. Though still people who 0:13:16.120 --> 0:13:20.000 are practicing this, you know, there's a jewal beliefs sort 0:13:20.040 --> 0:13:25.520 of thing Indonesia they called a Muslim, but then they're 0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:29.280 still practicing a little bit about Hinduism or Buddhism. They 0:13:29.320 --> 0:13:32.840 hold on to like some of the the old ways 0:13:32.920 --> 0:13:36.680 hard that's exactly, yeah, exactly that You should tell Robbie 0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:44.160 about Jan. Yeah, who was Jan or what for exam? Yeah, 0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:49.200 for example, Jaw sort of like a spiritual belief you know, 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:54.400 basically they are Muslim, but they're practicing some of the 0:13:54.480 --> 0:14:02.400 Hindu's rituals, you know, being being ja Java before Islam 0:14:02.480 --> 0:14:08.800 came to Indonesia. Basically are were Hindu's kingdoms, so they 0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:14.800 pretty pretty strong tradition on Hindu's ritual. So when Islam came, 0:14:16.080 --> 0:14:20.840 there were about nine and nine person we call it 0:14:21.000 --> 0:14:25.600 nine Suffies who came to Java and try to spread Islam. 0:14:25.640 --> 0:14:28.960 And they use lots of different way to attract people 0:14:29.000 --> 0:14:34.880 to Muslim And for example, in Java they even included Gamalan. 0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:40.440 Gamalan is a musical Javanese musical, uh, you know, like 0:14:42.120 --> 0:14:47.760 an but based on the Hindu's tradition something. So so 0:14:47.800 --> 0:14:51.640 they're kind of like mix it so you will find 0:14:51.880 --> 0:14:55.640 a little bit of Islamic for example, reciting with that 0:14:55.880 --> 0:15:00.720 kind of tone of intuison. Uh, you know, that's interesting, 0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:03.920 a toy of voice sort of thing. So yeah, the 0:15:03.920 --> 0:15:08.320 Sufis have always been the most flexible even pretty flexible 0:15:08.360 --> 0:15:10.120 in this in the subcontinent until yeah, I get that 0:15:10.120 --> 0:15:15.520 that's really interesting. Yes, So so that's u uh even 0:15:15.560 --> 0:15:20.040 even and that goes from generation into generations, you know, 0:15:20.720 --> 0:15:25.000 as a Javanese especially like I came from Madura, so 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:27.200 we really don't have that sort of thing, you know, 0:15:27.880 --> 0:15:32.320 because it's sort of likely completely different different islands from Java, 0:15:32.360 --> 0:15:37.280 even though it's pretty close. So h even the Saltan 0:15:37.480 --> 0:15:41.880 in Java. In Java we called it are still practicing 0:15:41.960 --> 0:15:45.040 this sort of you know, you know, what would you 0:15:45.080 --> 0:15:49.520 call it views in using concept of belief. You know, 0:15:50.240 --> 0:15:54.800 though they call themselves as somethms a Muslim uh craton 0:15:55.000 --> 0:15:57.040 or or what if the kingdom or whatever it is 0:15:57.320 --> 0:16:01.960 you may call it, but it's always be uh some 0:16:02.120 --> 0:16:09.840 sort of Hindus influence included me in their daily activities. Okay, 0:16:10.000 --> 0:16:12.720 so I want to circle back to that influence, but 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:15.800 first before we specifically especially on like the belief in 0:16:15.840 --> 0:16:19.760 supernatural and gin I mean most specifically, since that's what 0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:22.040 this podcast is about, but actually want to pivot to 0:16:22.040 --> 0:16:23.080 you for a little bit. And he said, don't want 0:16:23.080 --> 0:16:25.160 to ask you this. So somebody who kind of grew 0:16:25.240 --> 0:16:28.000 up in a family and a culture that was like, yeah, 0:16:28.040 --> 0:16:30.120 this is just a thing. It's like, oh okay, yeah, 0:16:30.120 --> 0:16:31.680 I think I saw somebody in my room last night, 0:16:31.720 --> 0:16:33.840 or maybe I saw a vision. Like it's just a 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:35.680 part of your reality, that's not You don't have to 0:16:35.760 --> 0:16:38.680 question your sanity, you don't have to question whether it's 0:16:38.680 --> 0:16:41.080 real or not. But you you didn't grow up in 0:16:41.080 --> 0:16:44.400 Indonesia the entire time, right, you were also raised in Australia. Correct, Yeah, 0:16:44.400 --> 0:16:48.080 that's right. So how did did that change for you? Then? 0:16:48.240 --> 0:16:51.520 Like then growing up in suddenly a culture that was 0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:53.160 like wait, what are you talking about? I mean, did 0:16:53.200 --> 0:16:55.720 you start to question your own kind of belief system? 0:16:55.880 --> 0:16:58.280 So I grew up in Australia until I was um, 0:16:58.320 --> 0:17:01.200 I think what was seven eight? Now I was eight 0:17:01.240 --> 0:17:03.760 when we moved, So I didn't really have too much 0:17:03.760 --> 0:17:06.960 of a concept of things around me. I guess, um, 0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:10.119 what what's the difference between Australia and Indonesia? Was just 0:17:10.160 --> 0:17:13.120 a different location where I was living. Um, So most 0:17:13.160 --> 0:17:16.040 of my growing up of like being actually aware of 0:17:16.080 --> 0:17:18.560 my surroundings and learning things, I think was mostly in 0:17:18.560 --> 0:17:22.280 Indonesia because that was from around eight to eighteen UM. 0:17:22.359 --> 0:17:27.480 And then moved to Australia for university. So that's that's 0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:30.560 when I realized the difference. How in Indonesia was very 0:17:30.560 --> 0:17:34.359 common every every day to sort of talk about gin 0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:39.119 and like how, um, there's this concept of pennunga, which 0:17:39.200 --> 0:17:43.080 is um sort of we kind of have quite a 0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:46.080 quite a lot of words that all are kind of interchangeable. 0:17:46.160 --> 0:17:49.479 For basically, what is gin or a spiritual being? Um? 0:17:49.560 --> 0:17:52.880 But the panungu is more of the idea of of 0:17:53.240 --> 0:17:55.679 being that inhabits a place. So for example, like in 0:17:55.760 --> 0:17:59.960 our house, Um, in my parents house, rather, there's apparent 0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:03.640 only these jin who live there, and they've sort of 0:18:04.200 --> 0:18:06.080 what is it, dad, there's like one in every room 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:09.960 or something where they and they've they've helped us in 0:18:09.960 --> 0:18:12.280 the past, like this was in sort of our episode zero, 0:18:12.359 --> 0:18:15.000 like they apparently helped us when our house got robbed 0:18:15.000 --> 0:18:16.880 in all this kind of stuff. Oh my god, Okay, 0:18:16.920 --> 0:18:20.480 we don't listeners have to hear this story. You're saying, 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:22.399 that's a matter of factly, how long have you been 0:18:22.440 --> 0:18:29.880 in that house with this jin? By the way, are years? 0:18:30.600 --> 0:18:31.800 So is that the house you grew up in? That 0:18:31.840 --> 0:18:35.320 Anita half of it? Yeah, we most of the time 0:18:35.359 --> 0:18:37.639 that I was there was in that house. Yet and 0:18:37.680 --> 0:18:40.160 when you were there, you were aware that they were 0:18:40.200 --> 0:18:44.080 just there. I didn't like because I'm not sensitive towards 0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:46.360 that kind of stuff. So I've never I've never actually 0:18:46.359 --> 0:18:49.480 really seen anything or there's like the one story that 0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:53.160 I have that is, um, possibly when I experienced something, 0:18:53.160 --> 0:18:56.760 but I've never actually seen or heard or anything like that. Um, 0:18:56.960 --> 0:19:00.399 So to me, it's still something that's fairly in visible, 0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:04.920 that's fairly Um, theoretical in a sense because I've never 0:19:04.960 --> 0:19:07.200 really had that experience that a lot of people had, 0:19:07.200 --> 0:19:09.440 like Dad has had, that just makes you go, really, 0:19:09.560 --> 0:19:12.440 yet a hundred there there are these things, and I've 0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:15.879 experienced a connection with them. I haven't had that, So 0:19:16.000 --> 0:19:18.920 to me, there's still just something that's like, oh, yeah, 0:19:19.000 --> 0:19:22.800 they're they're supposed to be around, but I've never experienced it, 0:19:22.920 --> 0:19:25.240 so it's not an issue for me, not a problem. 0:19:25.440 --> 0:19:27.640 I do believe that. I mean, there are people who 0:19:28.160 --> 0:19:32.439 have just either heightened sensibility or sensitivity or or some 0:19:32.520 --> 0:19:35.840 kind of opening that others don't. And I'm like you 0:19:35.920 --> 0:19:38.320 and he so I'm I'm kind of like I'm waiting 0:19:38.440 --> 0:19:42.040 to or see it, but it's not happening. But you know, 0:19:42.119 --> 0:19:45.400 my husband warns me and says, don't don't tempt them, 0:19:45.440 --> 0:19:48.760 but don't tempt fate. Um, how did you How did 0:19:48.760 --> 0:19:52.000 you discover that there are were gin in every room 0:19:52.040 --> 0:19:53.960 of that house? Were they just like part of your 0:19:54.359 --> 0:19:56.280 you know, either a different generators. So they're the gin 0:19:56.400 --> 0:19:59.560 that kind of inhabited space and attached themselves to a place, 0:19:59.600 --> 0:20:01.800 and then they're genter that attached themselves to people and 0:20:01.840 --> 0:20:04.880 will follow them around like from place to place, house 0:20:04.920 --> 0:20:07.640 to house. Can you tell us a little bit about 0:20:07.640 --> 0:20:11.159 this gender and how you discover the exist? Well, First, 0:20:11.280 --> 0:20:15.560 first of all, there there um as an Indonesian. We 0:20:15.640 --> 0:20:20.240 all believe that, uh, they are everywhere, the jeans everywhere, 0:20:20.240 --> 0:20:22.760 even in our own house. We just sort of like 0:20:22.800 --> 0:20:27.080 a given, you know, we leave side by side with them. Uh. 0:20:27.119 --> 0:20:31.560 So that make it easier for us to just believe, Okay, 0:20:31.560 --> 0:20:34.760 there's a gin in this room, or the gene in 0:20:34.800 --> 0:20:37.440 the other room, or the gens in the garden, that 0:20:37.560 --> 0:20:43.040 sort of thing. But not until when I really actually, um, 0:20:43.280 --> 0:20:46.199 I don't know. Maybe you can call it opening up 0:20:46.320 --> 0:20:51.399 my channel towards something that's more sensitive. Then I can 0:20:51.640 --> 0:20:57.320 sort of detect their being. You know though I actually 0:20:57.440 --> 0:21:02.040 that's happened, so it's not my intention. But it's more 0:21:02.240 --> 0:21:09.359 like because once I joined this uh this what you 0:21:09.440 --> 0:21:11.920 call it. It's not the martial art. It's more like 0:21:12.000 --> 0:21:17.440 a healthy uh what you call a crop some sort 0:21:18.080 --> 0:21:23.200 to develop your inner power for the purpose of you know, 0:21:23.520 --> 0:21:28.200 being more healthy and you know, can do things more 0:21:28.280 --> 0:21:31.359 that sort of stuff. Is it like a meditative type 0:21:31.359 --> 0:21:34.560 of thing or the mind It's it's sort of a 0:21:34.680 --> 0:21:41.600 combination meditation and and breathing exercise and and you know 0:21:41.640 --> 0:21:47.919 it's a Muslim also execute too, so it open It 0:21:48.040 --> 0:21:54.560 opened up the channel unintentionally maybe because I have that 0:21:54.760 --> 0:21:57.959 kind of a natures for that, but not everyone you 0:21:57.960 --> 0:22:02.160 know can that have that similar thing. But in my case, 0:22:03.640 --> 0:22:08.720 it opened my channels towards some you know, a different 0:22:09.200 --> 0:22:15.119 dimension that all this time I knew. Uh so when 0:22:15.160 --> 0:22:21.720 I had that Indian nation call it ILM is just 0:22:21.880 --> 0:22:26.760 like knowledge knowledge, but this is more like spiritual knowledge 0:22:26.880 --> 0:22:30.840 sort of thing. Uh, I didn't know what happened at 0:22:30.840 --> 0:22:32.960 that time? How come you know, all of a sudden 0:22:33.040 --> 0:22:36.360 I become very sensitive? H So can I ask you 0:22:37.080 --> 0:22:39.760 when was your When? When did you first realize something 0:22:39.800 --> 0:22:43.920 had changed? What was it? What event? Was it? One 0:22:43.960 --> 0:22:46.959 of one of the like if you sort of upgrading, 0:22:47.440 --> 0:22:50.920 you know when I DoD when I did this? Uh? 0:22:50.960 --> 0:22:56.960 What you call that uh inner powers exercise is to 0:22:57.400 --> 0:23:02.800 be able to detect some sort of differences of energy. 0:23:03.600 --> 0:23:09.399 You know. Uh for example, uh, you sort of blindfolded 0:23:10.040 --> 0:23:14.240 and then you you detected different colors has a different 0:23:14.320 --> 0:23:17.800 of uh you know, energy that you can really feel 0:23:17.840 --> 0:23:22.919 it with your hand, you know, So for example, black 0:23:23.119 --> 0:23:25.919 is this kind of string of powers. The red is 0:23:25.960 --> 0:23:28.840 this kind of you know, strange or yellow and so on. 0:23:29.480 --> 0:23:32.480 So in the end you can really read. So you 0:23:32.520 --> 0:23:34.879 can have with your with your eyes cloaked, without seeing 0:23:34.960 --> 0:23:38.600 the color. You can touch the color and tell what 0:23:38.640 --> 0:23:41.280 color it is from the energy it's emanating that that's right, 0:23:43.160 --> 0:23:46.840 just right, just like you have you have a big 0:23:46.880 --> 0:23:50.000 alphabet for example, and that's just like a sort of 0:23:50.200 --> 0:23:53.280 scann it over it, and you can tell the difference 0:23:53.320 --> 0:23:56.960 between white and black and white and black, and you, uh, 0:23:57.040 --> 0:23:58.840 in the end you can sort of figure out what 0:23:58.840 --> 0:24:02.000 what what aphabet is is, you know, because it's just 0:24:02.119 --> 0:24:07.400 like a scanning. Okay, so so how kind of how 0:24:07.440 --> 0:24:09.400 long did they take it? A master this sleight away? 0:24:09.400 --> 0:24:13.000 I mean, this must have taken years. It feels like, yeah, 0:24:12.640 --> 0:24:17.400 I actually two or three years something, you know, So 0:24:17.960 --> 0:24:22.880 so that kind of thing, and and uh, actually it's 0:24:22.960 --> 0:24:28.240 pretty simple based on the uh, the positive and negative 0:24:28.400 --> 0:24:33.000 energy because they don't mix sort of things. So based 0:24:33.000 --> 0:24:37.160 on that concept you can really tell, you know, if 0:24:37.160 --> 0:24:40.560 it's a positive or it's a negative energy sort of thing. 0:24:41.800 --> 0:24:44.560 So so let's say it started like that. So when I, 0:24:45.040 --> 0:24:47.960 you know, sometimes I went somewhere and all of a sudden, 0:24:48.040 --> 0:24:51.359 my whole body is just like being electrocuted, just like 0:24:51.920 --> 0:24:54.399 you know, they're kind of feeling like it's just a 0:24:54.480 --> 0:24:57.639 different sort of thing. So so I think, what's this, 0:24:57.920 --> 0:25:00.080 you know how kind of all of a sudden it 0:25:00.160 --> 0:25:04.439 became sort of like uh, you know, uh, you know 0:25:04.720 --> 0:25:10.760 in terms, yeah, sort of saying. So, not until I 0:25:10.880 --> 0:25:14.399 met this man who actually we call it men with 0:25:14.520 --> 0:25:21.119 lots of knowledge. He can uh detect that I have 0:25:21.480 --> 0:25:25.119 that kind of power, but I didn't realize at that 0:25:25.240 --> 0:25:28.400 time that I have it. So he said, look, if 0:25:28.400 --> 0:25:30.639 you want to, I can really help you and really 0:25:30.720 --> 0:25:34.000 opening up, you know, so you know exactly what's happening, 0:25:34.480 --> 0:25:38.159 you know, with yourself. So I so I said, okay, 0:25:38.160 --> 0:25:41.359 it's gonna affect me, and said no, no, no, I 0:25:41.480 --> 0:25:44.040 just want you will give you some sort of additional 0:25:44.840 --> 0:25:48.159 you know, additional knowledge of something. Okay, it's fine, I 0:25:48.600 --> 0:25:52.280 can live with it. So he did something, Okay, you 0:25:52.320 --> 0:25:58.080 just do you just accepting what ever happened to yourself. 0:25:59.119 --> 0:26:02.960 Don't try, don't try to fight against that. So he 0:26:03.080 --> 0:26:05.239 did something. I didn't know what he did, you know, 0:26:05.240 --> 0:26:09.000 because he sort of stood behind me. So I can 0:26:09.119 --> 0:26:12.280 really you know, I can just just let my body 0:26:12.359 --> 0:26:15.960 sort of a feeling following whatever it is that's just 0:26:16.119 --> 0:26:21.639 coming to me. And in the end in sense, he said, okay, 0:26:21.960 --> 0:26:26.960 now I'm finished certain that you do have this uh 0:26:27.320 --> 0:26:31.800 ability to you know, to to what you called to 0:26:32.520 --> 0:26:35.760 feel a different dimension. So if you want to, I 0:26:35.800 --> 0:26:38.680 can I can really give you this knowledge to you 0:26:39.040 --> 0:26:43.160 so you can sort of really make maximize utilize said 0:26:43.320 --> 0:26:48.560 and you said yes to that. But again again, I 0:26:48.560 --> 0:26:51.000 I kind of a person who always cure is about 0:26:52.040 --> 0:26:57.240 new thing, so including this thing you know. Okay, so yeah, 0:26:57.359 --> 0:27:02.320 sure I would like to have the of So you 0:27:02.440 --> 0:27:06.240 need to make it short sort of like what give 0:27:06.320 --> 0:27:07.879 it to me? I don't know what sort of ritual 0:27:07.920 --> 0:27:10.240 he did. Anyway, he give it to me, and he 0:27:10.320 --> 0:27:12.920 also give it the instruction. This is how you sort 0:27:12.920 --> 0:27:17.320 of switch it down and off your new knowledge sort 0:27:17.359 --> 0:27:21.080 of you can switch it on and off. Yeah, that's interesting. 0:27:21.240 --> 0:27:23.000 Is that? So like if you go somewhere where there 0:27:23.040 --> 0:27:25.080 might be a lot of energy or entity, it's like 0:27:25.119 --> 0:27:27.280 you just don't want to be disturbed, you switch it off. 0:27:28.480 --> 0:27:33.239 That's right. Yeah, So that's so he said. It is 0:27:35.160 --> 0:27:38.560 it is very important how to do it. So whatever 0:27:38.800 --> 0:27:43.199 is energy. For example, if you encounter with negative energy, 0:27:43.520 --> 0:27:46.359 they don't overpower you, you know, so you just switch 0:27:46.400 --> 0:27:49.840 it off instead of just let the whole thing, you know, 0:27:50.440 --> 0:27:54.760 overpower you, and you know how to deal with uh. 0:27:54.960 --> 0:27:58.600 So that's that, that's what happened. And he and the 0:27:58.960 --> 0:28:02.240 positive part not the positive you know, maybe the good 0:28:02.280 --> 0:28:06.840 thing that I can also help people, you know, with 0:28:06.880 --> 0:28:10.040 that knowledge helping in terms of for example, I can 0:28:10.119 --> 0:28:13.120 detect you know, sort of Okay, you have this sort 0:28:13.119 --> 0:28:18.280 of a problem in your body. I can help you 0:28:18.320 --> 0:28:21.440 to fix it, or maybe I can Is this I'm 0:28:21.440 --> 0:28:23.440 going to ask you something and this is gonna be 0:28:23.520 --> 0:28:26.560 kind of personal, But is this because you have developed 0:28:26.560 --> 0:28:28.600 the ability on your own or is this because you're 0:28:28.680 --> 0:28:31.720 like using the assistance of a gin to help you 0:28:31.760 --> 0:28:38.720 do it? Using the six the existence of gene the 0:28:38.760 --> 0:28:42.560 assistance like like gen helping you, that Jean's helping me. 0:28:42.680 --> 0:28:45.320 So that's that's what it is? What so wait wait 0:28:45.200 --> 0:28:48.400 wait you know you do have gen helping you? Yes, 0:28:48.760 --> 0:28:55.640 oh my god? Really is oh my gosh? Okay, because 0:28:56.120 --> 0:29:01.640 because you know, basically sort of live in one dimension 0:29:01.680 --> 0:29:04.560 and as a human human being, you don't have like 0:29:04.640 --> 0:29:08.400 a jewel dimension. But you can't go. It's across the 0:29:08.680 --> 0:29:13.800 dimension by help, by knowledge, vice versa. Like a gene 0:29:13.880 --> 0:29:16.520 can come to our dimension if the gene has knowledge 0:29:17.120 --> 0:29:19.360 to do it. If not, only just live it in 0:29:19.520 --> 0:29:25.640 you know, the real sort of thing. So yes, uh, 0:29:26.600 --> 0:29:28.240 And he said, you have a whole lot of questions 0:29:28.240 --> 0:29:30.640 now for your father, since you're just about I'm about 0:29:30.640 --> 0:29:34.680 to take over Robbie, and just asking in person, please 0:29:34.720 --> 0:29:37.800 Alfrey jumping because I don't have so many okay, yeah 0:29:37.920 --> 0:29:42.400 so so yes, so actually as a Muslim, I don't 0:29:42.520 --> 0:29:48.400 have any uh any what what you call uh disagreeing 0:29:48.440 --> 0:29:51.360 with this concept because you know, even even in the 0:29:51.440 --> 0:29:54.280 in the Koran and the king Solomons have lots of 0:29:55.200 --> 0:30:00.160 army of gens helped him build build his kingdom. So 0:30:00.160 --> 0:30:03.000 so so this this man, how I can call it 0:30:03.080 --> 0:30:05.400 my mentor whatever, this is the same thing. You know, 0:30:05.640 --> 0:30:08.160 you can ask him to do things as King Solomon 0:30:08.280 --> 0:30:12.920 asked the Jeans to do. Help him too, well, you 0:30:13.000 --> 0:30:15.400 need to build his kingdom. So as long as you 0:30:15.440 --> 0:30:18.600 know how to to to communicate with them and and 0:30:18.680 --> 0:30:25.120 you know, uh and looking after your respect over them 0:30:25.200 --> 0:30:28.200 and vice versa, so you can sort of work to me. 0:30:28.440 --> 0:30:31.120 Just wow, if I have a lot of questions about 0:30:31.160 --> 0:30:34.000 how you actually work with them, it's only ask you this, 0:30:34.680 --> 0:30:38.480 how are you when you recognize that your father has 0:30:38.560 --> 0:30:43.959 something going on? UM? I think actually when he first 0:30:45.080 --> 0:30:49.640 told me the story of UM, some of the things 0:30:49.680 --> 0:30:54.160 that he could do from this UM, this new cause 0:30:54.240 --> 0:30:57.680 that the meditation group that in the energy training that 0:30:57.760 --> 0:30:59.480 he did, because what's it called? Is there a name 0:30:59.520 --> 0:31:05.840 for this? Plung by the way for yeah, okay? And 0:31:05.880 --> 0:31:07.320 I think he started doing that when I was in 0:31:07.400 --> 0:31:09.440 high school, so I was aware sort of of what 0:31:09.520 --> 0:31:12.959 this group did, what they learned, and then he probably 0:31:12.960 --> 0:31:14.840 just told us a couple of things like maybe over 0:31:15.080 --> 0:31:17.160 dinner or breakfast, like oh we did this or something, 0:31:17.160 --> 0:31:19.440 and I was like okay, and just it was just 0:31:19.520 --> 0:31:23.000 left at that pretty much. Well, I do know how 0:31:23.000 --> 0:31:25.800 teenagers are. I mean, so, yeah, you can be pretty dismissive. 0:31:26.520 --> 0:31:29.760 Parent can be like I, you know, cured cancer, and 0:31:29.800 --> 0:31:33.560 the teenagers like all right, that's cool mom, Okay. But 0:31:33.680 --> 0:31:37.600 so but have you yourself witnessed your father like work 0:31:37.600 --> 0:31:41.160 in this space UM, working with people, or identifying things 0:31:41.320 --> 0:31:43.520 or anything kind of supernatural happening to him, even if 0:31:43.520 --> 0:31:48.400 you didn't experience something directly yourself. Did you have seen him? Um? 0:31:48.400 --> 0:31:52.000 Maybe the closest thing is so the thing you do 0:31:52.120 --> 0:31:55.040 with the healing people is where you put your hands 0:31:55.040 --> 0:31:57.960 on them. It's similar to um. Maybe some of your 0:31:58.000 --> 0:32:01.560 listeners might be more familiar with raiky um, where you 0:32:01.680 --> 0:32:03.880 put your hands yeah on on someone's body and you 0:32:03.880 --> 0:32:06.640 can either feel where they're where they're in pain or 0:32:06.720 --> 0:32:09.600 you can help heal them. That's something Um that the 0:32:09.800 --> 0:32:12.280 people in Satri and No Santada learned how to do. 0:32:12.440 --> 0:32:15.360 So Dad um has done that on me. If I 0:32:15.360 --> 0:32:18.040 hadn't known he was using gin at the time, I'd 0:32:18.040 --> 0:32:21.959 be like, whoa wait a minute. Um. But my aunt, 0:32:22.280 --> 0:32:26.280 whom is Dad's younger sister, she does this as well, 0:32:26.320 --> 0:32:28.760 but I don't know it does does something I need 0:32:28.840 --> 0:32:30.520 to do that as well. Is that's similar to what 0:32:30.680 --> 0:32:35.480 you did that or is it different? Well, see, sister, 0:32:35.800 --> 0:32:38.120 I think it's so what do you call that? Never 0:32:38.200 --> 0:32:42.400 studied anything of what I did, But it's sort of 0:32:42.920 --> 0:32:46.080 naturally can be you know, it's held in the debt 0:32:46.080 --> 0:32:51.040 ability to help people. M Yeah. So yeah. One time 0:32:51.120 --> 0:32:53.160 I just had, like I think, just pains in my 0:32:53.280 --> 0:32:55.920 neck and shoulders, which I get a lot and usually 0:32:55.920 --> 0:32:59.560 if you're in Indonesia, excuse me, it's it's pretty easy 0:32:59.600 --> 0:33:01.720 and cheap to go get a message. But one day 0:33:01.760 --> 0:33:03.080 I was like, oh, Dad, do you want to try 0:33:03.080 --> 0:33:04.560 to say if he can help? And so he was 0:33:04.600 --> 0:33:05.920 like putting his hands. I mean, it's like do you 0:33:05.960 --> 0:33:08.440 feel the hate? And I'm like a little bit. But 0:33:08.480 --> 0:33:10.240 then that was that was kind of I was like, 0:33:10.280 --> 0:33:15.000 I think that in terms of healing stuff like that, 0:33:15.040 --> 0:33:18.000 I didn't really need the help of genes, you know, 0:33:18.040 --> 0:33:21.640 because my own energies can can do it, you know. 0:33:22.360 --> 0:33:27.080 But for something that is more complicated, maybe I need 0:33:27.840 --> 0:33:30.520 a little bit of help of gene But in terms 0:33:30.520 --> 0:33:33.240 of a healing I don't really need it needed because 0:33:34.040 --> 0:33:37.000 you know, actually it's a part of what I learned 0:33:37.000 --> 0:33:41.080 in something and Santa I said, utilize my inner energy 0:33:41.160 --> 0:33:45.360 to help other people. So basically something that everyone can 0:33:45.440 --> 0:33:48.600 learn to do it, you know, without being in forfeit 0:33:49.160 --> 0:33:55.000 supernatural things. In my case is maybe because I have 0:33:55.200 --> 0:33:58.400 some sort of flair for the supernatural. So it's just 0:33:58.440 --> 0:34:01.480 sort of like a connecting thinking what I learned in 0:34:01.600 --> 0:34:06.160 what my ability to do other stuff. So and he 0:34:06.240 --> 0:34:08.520 to let me, I say, your reaction right now when 0:34:08.600 --> 0:34:13.480 you're joking. I know, um about it. But when you said, well, 0:34:13.480 --> 0:34:15.000 if I had known that you're using a gin or 0:34:15.040 --> 0:34:17.040 maybe not using a gina, is it because like you, 0:34:17.239 --> 0:34:19.400 even having grown up in a culture where it's very 0:34:19.440 --> 0:34:22.480 very normalized, there's still like a fear around it, like 0:34:22.560 --> 0:34:26.160 do you not want to get too close to these things? Um? 0:34:26.200 --> 0:34:30.160 I think because I don't have that sensitivity. It's and 0:34:30.239 --> 0:34:33.640 I said before, it was still kind of half theoretical 0:34:33.680 --> 0:34:36.799 to me, like that's not something that's very evident. So 0:34:37.120 --> 0:34:39.799 like I was joking before, like I think if dad 0:34:39.800 --> 0:34:41.520 had said I'm going to use a gin to help 0:34:41.520 --> 0:34:45.120 heal you, and I'd be like, okay, do it? Like yeah, 0:34:45.800 --> 0:34:47.799 um if it helps me, like you know, get rid 0:34:47.840 --> 0:34:50.839 of my neck pain, and that's great. Um. But in 0:34:50.920 --> 0:34:53.640 terms of other things, like for example, people will say, 0:34:53.719 --> 0:34:56.919 or like what I said before, how they're supposedly gin 0:34:57.040 --> 0:35:00.120 in every room of the house. It's like, okay, well 0:35:00.120 --> 0:35:02.239 they haven't done anything so far, so it's fine. Like 0:35:02.680 --> 0:35:04.920 how did you understand that that they just lived there 0:35:04.960 --> 0:35:06.879 like everybody else lives there. They don't want to mess 0:35:06.880 --> 0:35:08.880 with you, you don't want to just leave them alone? 0:35:09.080 --> 0:35:12.399 Or were they guardians or what what was the dynamic here? 0:35:12.920 --> 0:35:15.799 Um Dad probably mentioned it at some point during the 0:35:15.880 --> 0:35:18.279 years that I was living there during high school, and 0:35:18.360 --> 0:35:21.799 so because it is so um naturally accepted, it's just 0:35:21.840 --> 0:35:24.359 like okay, the here And then at first maybe it 0:35:24.400 --> 0:35:26.600 was a little bit like you kind of look around 0:35:26.600 --> 0:35:28.799 the room and go, okay, where is it is? Like 0:35:28.920 --> 0:35:31.040 is it watching me get undressed? And like can I 0:35:31.080 --> 0:35:33.520 go to the toilet? And then you just forget about it, 0:35:33.520 --> 0:35:35.560 and it's just like, yeah, well, if they're gonna see, 0:35:35.600 --> 0:35:38.239 they're gonna see. I suppose I don't think they really 0:35:38.280 --> 0:35:42.879 care at this point. So, um yeah, we'll be right 0:35:42.920 --> 0:35:47.439 back after the short break. I don't want to ask you, 0:35:47.600 --> 0:35:51.720 um specifically, it's one thing to learn, I think, um 0:35:51.760 --> 0:35:54.280 this discipline of how to kind of like feel energy 0:35:54.640 --> 0:35:58.080 and be able to detect the energy. It's another thing 0:35:58.120 --> 0:36:01.120 to be able to get gin to do what you want, right. 0:36:01.200 --> 0:36:04.680 I mean you talked about Solomon. Every Everything that I've 0:36:04.760 --> 0:36:08.800 learned in my research is that when people, when the 0:36:08.880 --> 0:36:11.600 jin do something for people, it's not for nothing. There 0:36:11.680 --> 0:36:15.919 is some kind of negotiation. They want something or now 0:36:15.960 --> 0:36:19.200 Solomon King Solomon was able to control them because he 0:36:19.239 --> 0:36:22.000 had the power of this ring. It wasn't they weren't. 0:36:22.040 --> 0:36:25.560 They weren't helping him happily, they were like they didn't 0:36:25.560 --> 0:36:27.759 have a choice. They write there were his place. So 0:36:28.160 --> 0:36:30.600 for you, first of all, how how did you learn? 0:36:31.280 --> 0:36:33.440 Because that's a whole another level. It's one thing to 0:36:33.719 --> 0:36:35.799 know that they exist, it's another or to be able 0:36:35.800 --> 0:36:37.520 to feel them or see them. It's another thing to 0:36:37.520 --> 0:36:39.319 be able to get them to work with you. How 0:36:39.360 --> 0:36:42.120 did you get to that point? And how do you 0:36:42.160 --> 0:36:48.800 do it? Well? Actually, um see the thing that I 0:36:49.080 --> 0:36:55.719 really sort of m you would you call that like 0:36:55.920 --> 0:37:02.520 about this new you know knowledge is because it's based 0:37:02.640 --> 0:37:07.320 on actually the power of God m hm. So before anything, 0:37:08.320 --> 0:37:10.560 before I start doing anything, I always make a prayer 0:37:11.360 --> 0:37:14.719 that you're the powerful God, You're the powerful and I 0:37:14.840 --> 0:37:19.200 just you as your your health, inducing your other creation. 0:37:19.520 --> 0:37:23.320 Basically it's like that. So so if it's not happening, 0:37:23.320 --> 0:37:25.640 it's not happening. It's not meant to be, you know, 0:37:25.840 --> 0:37:29.759 to be happened. So basically is uh is uh? Not 0:37:30.160 --> 0:37:34.160 entirely it's up to two jeans when to help you 0:37:34.280 --> 0:37:37.759 or not? That's right. So it's basically it's up to 0:37:38.400 --> 0:37:42.960 after God if it if you let me use gene 0:37:43.000 --> 0:37:48.080 to help me, then be it. If not, okay, no problem. 0:37:48.239 --> 0:37:52.480 It's sort of things. So I never promise anything like 0:37:52.520 --> 0:37:54.920 if I help people, so I always say ensial light 0:37:55.000 --> 0:37:57.080 will you know it'll do something good. If it's not, 0:37:57.280 --> 0:38:02.080 you know, maybe time and help you with other things, 0:38:02.280 --> 0:38:06.960 that sort of thing. Uh So, based on that believe, 0:38:08.200 --> 0:38:14.920 I never made any transaction. You know, as you said before, 0:38:15.080 --> 0:38:18.640 you know, if you if someone gene do something and 0:38:18.840 --> 0:38:21.279 we have to do something, you know, I never you know, 0:38:21.280 --> 0:38:25.360 I've never done things like that because, uh, you know, 0:38:25.880 --> 0:38:29.239 because it's not it's not what I believe. Basically, I 0:38:30.880 --> 0:38:35.000 don't believe the gene can take over as as human 0:38:35.200 --> 0:38:40.440 because we are we are most uh higher in the 0:38:40.480 --> 0:38:43.680 position in the rank compared to gene. So you actually 0:38:43.680 --> 0:38:47.279 don't think gen can possess human beings if they are 0:38:47.960 --> 0:38:51.640 strong enough, they can't. M hm. Just like just like 0:38:52.040 --> 0:38:56.840 you know, just like if you have a really strong fortress, 0:38:58.080 --> 0:39:03.080 it's gonna be very hard for enemy trying to penetrate it. 0:39:03.080 --> 0:39:06.880 It's a sort of a basic concept. It's you know, 0:39:06.880 --> 0:39:09.399 it's as simple as that. You know, if you're very 0:39:09.440 --> 0:39:12.040 strong in your faith, they won't be able to penetrate 0:39:12.080 --> 0:39:16.480 you and and manipulate you, unless if you let them 0:39:16.520 --> 0:39:20.799 to manipulate you by opening up a channel for them 0:39:20.840 --> 0:39:23.680 to come, then they will, you know, they will really 0:39:24.280 --> 0:39:28.640 manipulates to the maximum, because that's that's how they are. 0:39:28.760 --> 0:39:32.480 You know, there are many great manipulators. Are you able 0:39:32.520 --> 0:39:37.319 to identify like specific gen like for example, if you're 0:39:37.440 --> 0:39:40.920 using the power of ther gin to help in some 0:39:41.040 --> 0:39:43.920 situation and another time you're doing that again, can you 0:39:43.920 --> 0:39:45.960 tell this is the same gen? These are different gen? 0:39:46.080 --> 0:39:48.480 I mean, are you able to differentiate? And can you 0:39:48.520 --> 0:39:54.920 actually communicate with them? Yes? Because just like actually actually 0:39:55.080 --> 0:39:58.440 just like just like as a human being, you know, 0:39:58.960 --> 0:40:02.640 before we sort of have some sort of communication, you 0:40:02.719 --> 0:40:05.759 always ask, you know, what's your name and where you're from? 0:40:05.840 --> 0:40:08.000 Her You sort of thinks, oh my gosh, so you 0:40:08.080 --> 0:40:12.280 asked and they tell you yes, yeah, of course, because 0:40:12.719 --> 0:40:15.919 just like you know, just like very if we meet 0:40:16.000 --> 0:40:20.680 someone's somewhere and introduce ourselves, then so they introduced themselves 0:40:20.719 --> 0:40:24.640 and and you know we Wow, I have chills right now, 0:40:24.680 --> 0:40:28.680 I'm really friend, it's hard for me to good. But 0:40:29.600 --> 0:40:33.360 the interesting thing is the more you know they would 0:40:33.719 --> 0:40:39.640 is the less the less scared to us because we 0:40:39.680 --> 0:40:43.680 are scared of officer price, something that you don't expect, right, 0:40:43.800 --> 0:40:47.239 that's what scarre is all about. But if you know 0:40:48.000 --> 0:40:52.040 who they are and how they live is there's there's 0:40:52.160 --> 0:40:55.880 nothing to fear. Basically the unknown. They are known as 0:40:55.920 --> 0:40:59.359 the scariest thing, that's right. Yeah. So are you able 0:40:59.360 --> 0:41:01.359 to see them? Are you actually able to see them? 0:41:01.400 --> 0:41:04.560 Do they come to you in a certain form. I 0:41:04.600 --> 0:41:08.800 don't know about other people, but with myself, I don't. 0:41:09.239 --> 0:41:12.279 I cannot see them, but I can't tell. We call 0:41:12.360 --> 0:41:16.920 it matta matta hatty. We see them with our eyes 0:41:16.960 --> 0:41:22.600 that we see them are with our spiritual feeling. Okay. 0:41:22.960 --> 0:41:26.120 You know some people may say, oh I can see them. 0:41:26.160 --> 0:41:31.120 Maybe they have a sort of you know, quite ability 0:41:31.239 --> 0:41:35.600 to to penetrate with the their own eyes. But in 0:41:35.600 --> 0:41:40.319 in my case, I use my inner what you call matt, 0:41:41.280 --> 0:41:45.799 what you in the inner revision? So I sort of 0:41:45.880 --> 0:41:50.080 like described this is like this, Yeah, he's like there's 0:41:50.080 --> 0:41:52.560 always she's like this sort of thing. Can I ask 0:41:52.600 --> 0:41:54.879 you what kind of things that you might ask them 0:41:55.239 --> 0:41:58.359 other than the healing? What are the kinds of situations 0:41:58.440 --> 0:42:04.879 might you invite to help the gen? Oh? Uh? Well, 0:42:04.920 --> 0:42:13.920 for example, like like like finding, isn't it finding things? Yeah? Yeah, 0:42:14.040 --> 0:42:22.200 because basically, basically, gene can help us for something that's 0:42:22.239 --> 0:42:27.200 already happened, but not you know, they cannot predict, but 0:42:27.560 --> 0:42:29.839 they can help with something that's already happened. So they 0:42:29.840 --> 0:42:31.960 can't predict the future. They can't see the future, which 0:42:31.960 --> 0:42:35.160 means if somebody comes to you and says and ask 0:42:35.200 --> 0:42:37.000 for your help to predict something in the future or 0:42:37.040 --> 0:42:39.040 to help like a decision for the future, you cannot 0:42:39.040 --> 0:42:41.640 help that. You know, if they if someone will say 0:42:41.640 --> 0:42:46.000 that to me, at least they will manipulated by gin. 0:42:46.920 --> 0:42:49.880 I got it, because because they can. How can you know, 0:42:49.920 --> 0:42:53.799 how can gene see something that not even there yet? 0:42:53.880 --> 0:42:57.520 You not even there? Yeah, Basically it's as simple as that. 0:42:57.960 --> 0:43:01.000 So if it's something it's already happened, you can't ask 0:43:01.120 --> 0:43:07.960 them because they may not himself or herself witnessing what's happening, 0:43:08.120 --> 0:43:12.920 but maybe other Uh you know, I had the gene 0:43:12.960 --> 0:43:17.160 and witness thing, so to me, the theory basically just 0:43:17.239 --> 0:43:22.880 like googling, Oh my god, this is amazing. This is amazing. 0:43:23.239 --> 0:43:26.400 It's like just like if you want to know something, 0:43:26.680 --> 0:43:29.040 yeah you can, you can just see it. Behind your 0:43:29.120 --> 0:43:32.640 laptop over they when just googling and lots of employersing 0:43:32.680 --> 0:43:34.799 came into you and they just speak this one that's 0:43:34.800 --> 0:43:37.240 most suitable to you. So what it is too different 0:43:37.280 --> 0:43:40.440 with Gene. You know, I thought um anitsa before you 0:43:40.520 --> 0:43:43.640 joined UM the Call. I was telling you that this 0:43:43.719 --> 0:43:45.799 is not my first podcast. I've been podcasting for five 0:43:45.880 --> 0:43:49.320 years and I began my first podcast is about solving 0:43:50.120 --> 0:43:53.360 like wrong for conviction cases where innocent people are in prison. 0:43:53.880 --> 0:43:55.760 And the reason I got into that work is because 0:43:55.800 --> 0:43:59.160 I have been an advocate trying to free an innocent 0:43:59.239 --> 0:44:02.359 man since for a murder he was only a boy 0:44:02.400 --> 0:44:05.640 then seventeen. Uh and Ariana, I'm still trying to solve 0:44:05.680 --> 0:44:08.239 this murder. He's still in prison now and we have 0:44:08.320 --> 0:44:10.680 been fighting and fighting and fighting in the appeals. I 0:44:10.760 --> 0:44:16.280 might need your help, like I know, listen, I am, 0:44:15.800 --> 0:44:18.200 I'm I'm happy to go to court, I'm happy to 0:44:18.200 --> 0:44:20.600 go to the media. I will try political solutions and 0:44:20.640 --> 0:44:22.720 I will ask the gin if that's what it takes 0:44:23.120 --> 0:44:26.080 to free this poor boy, because he has been in 0:44:26.120 --> 0:44:29.160 prison for twenty years for something he didn't do. Uh. 0:44:29.239 --> 0:44:35.120 So maybe we can talk separately about because if anybody 0:44:35.120 --> 0:44:38.080 can help me solve this murder, then uh, then he 0:44:38.120 --> 0:44:40.719 can come home and be free. Finally, So, and I 0:44:41.160 --> 0:44:43.640 swear I'm not joking at all. So, um, this is 0:44:43.840 --> 0:44:46.040 but happy actually, But you know, so there is a 0:44:46.040 --> 0:44:49.480 phenomena at least in the United States where their law 0:44:49.560 --> 0:44:52.279 enforcement has worked with mediums and people who have these 0:44:52.280 --> 0:44:54.960 abilities where they're able to communicate. And so is that 0:44:55.040 --> 0:44:59.040 something you've ever done? Not not, you know, intuit it 0:44:59.160 --> 0:45:03.279 far much more like family matters so close French metter, 0:45:03.360 --> 0:45:08.880 but not something that is well, I'm going to introduce 0:45:08.880 --> 0:45:14.640 you to that whole world. Now that's gonna be great. Okay, 0:45:14.719 --> 0:45:17.640 So and Sai, Actually I'm kind of curious as you 0:45:17.719 --> 0:45:20.480 listen to your father talk about these abilities and that 0:45:20.560 --> 0:45:23.839 he's communicating with Gin and he can what like, what 0:45:23.880 --> 0:45:26.600 are you thinking do you think I would you fully 0:45:26.640 --> 0:45:28.880 believe to present this is your father? This is not 0:45:28.920 --> 0:45:30.880 like me talking a stranger where I'm like, you know, 0:45:30.920 --> 0:45:33.600 maybe I'm kind of skepital, do you do you like, yeah, 0:45:33.719 --> 0:45:35.839 it's my dad, you know, is if he's saying it, 0:45:35.840 --> 0:45:40.080 it's the truth. Yeah, kind of because when it's when 0:45:40.080 --> 0:45:43.719 it's someone that you know that speaks about it. Um, 0:45:43.920 --> 0:45:46.239 you just kind of go okay, well, yeah, that's that's 0:45:46.239 --> 0:45:49.760 how it is. Um. I think I always call myself 0:45:49.760 --> 0:45:52.480 a skeptic, and it's it's a skeptic in in not 0:45:52.520 --> 0:45:55.640 the sense that I don't believe anything like this exists. 0:45:55.640 --> 0:45:58.640 It's more that I'm always questioning when people tell me things. 0:45:59.200 --> 0:46:01.600 But depending on the person who tells me. Like if 0:46:01.600 --> 0:46:04.760 you hear a story on you know, ghost hunting about whatever, 0:46:05.440 --> 0:46:07.040 you go, well, I don't know this person. They could 0:46:07.080 --> 0:46:08.560 just be doing it for a TV show. But when 0:46:08.600 --> 0:46:10.600 it's someone though I don't trust any of those teams, 0:46:11.360 --> 0:46:14.440 I don't. Yeah, but when it's someone that you know, 0:46:14.560 --> 0:46:18.440 it has a different weight to it has a different meaning. So, um, 0:46:18.480 --> 0:46:21.040 even though I don't experience yet, well does experience that, 0:46:21.160 --> 0:46:24.319 or yet my sister experienced that, and it just kind 0:46:24.360 --> 0:46:29.720 of it's accepted as fact and and yeah, just move on. Yeah, 0:46:30.000 --> 0:46:32.520 it's it's it is a bit weird, Um. I think, 0:46:32.640 --> 0:46:39.280 especially for non Indonesians or maybe western quote unquote Western people, 0:46:39.640 --> 0:46:43.080 because it's it's not as accepted. When you talk about 0:46:43.120 --> 0:46:45.319 this kind of stuff, you can really get sort of 0:46:45.360 --> 0:46:50.759 some looks of like we'll look as far as I'm concerned. Yea, 0:46:51.120 --> 0:46:53.200 as far as I'm concerned, the worst has always looked 0:46:53.239 --> 0:46:56.200 to the east for enlightenment. Okay, we know what's going on. 0:46:56.280 --> 0:47:00.400 We know what's up that the demensure and so you know, 0:47:00.440 --> 0:47:02.440 we've been tapped into them for thousands of years and 0:47:02.480 --> 0:47:04.600 that's why. Um, in the West you have every so 0:47:04.680 --> 0:47:07.600 often grous pop up and may people all like fools 0:47:07.600 --> 0:47:09.800 out of people. But um, there's kind of a hunger 0:47:09.800 --> 0:47:11.480 and thirst. I think a lot of people all in 0:47:11.520 --> 0:47:14.000 the world. Yeah, the people believe that there is something 0:47:14.239 --> 0:47:18.680 because people on every culture experience, you know, things that 0:47:18.680 --> 0:47:21.680 they cannot explain. So there's like this thirst to have 0:47:21.800 --> 0:47:24.759 it explained. But until let me ask you something, um, 0:47:24.960 --> 0:47:26.799 and I mean I want to talk about like the 0:47:26.840 --> 0:47:29.360 specific gen stuff a little more with but let me 0:47:29.360 --> 0:47:31.000 ask you thing. You said that you had a podcast 0:47:31.000 --> 0:47:33.319 before a few years ago about horror, and now you're 0:47:33.360 --> 0:47:35.879 doing something and this is our archild probably goes which 0:47:35.880 --> 0:47:38.920 whether the way the name is brilliant, thinks I'm quite 0:47:38.960 --> 0:47:41.719 happy with the name. Yes, it's so clever. Who came 0:47:41.800 --> 0:47:45.600 up with the name itself? I did, and I's it's 0:47:45.600 --> 0:47:47.880 a funny little story. But when I told every single 0:47:47.920 --> 0:47:50.399 person I video called them because I wanted to see 0:47:50.440 --> 0:47:53.439 their expressions, and all my siblings, who are all younger 0:47:53.480 --> 0:47:55.799 than May just kind of rolled their eyes just did 0:47:55.840 --> 0:47:57.600 oh I had to get on a video call for 0:47:57.640 --> 0:47:59.680 this that kind of stuff. So they're not as impressed 0:47:59.680 --> 0:48:02.080 as you, So I think. Listen, I know how hard 0:48:02.080 --> 0:48:03.680 it is to brand a podcast. Let me tell you. 0:48:03.760 --> 0:48:06.680 I had a full production team from two different production 0:48:06.719 --> 0:48:08.480 companies and me trying to come up with a name 0:48:08.520 --> 0:48:10.040 for the show, and the best we could do was 0:48:10.120 --> 0:48:15.000 the hid Engine, which is not that creative. So Archapela 0:48:15.000 --> 0:48:17.080 Ghost is a brilliant name, and I even love your 0:48:17.080 --> 0:48:19.480 logo and stuff, so kudos on it. Um but but 0:48:19.520 --> 0:48:22.239 so yeah, so now, but Arcapela Ghost is not a 0:48:22.640 --> 0:48:24.840 Would you consider it like a horror podcast? Is it 0:48:24.920 --> 0:48:26.640 something that you want to scare people with? What is 0:48:26.640 --> 0:48:30.080 your point of doing this? Oh okay, so that's actually 0:48:30.080 --> 0:48:32.640 a really good question. The answer is no, I really 0:48:32.680 --> 0:48:35.040 don't want to scare people. I really want people just 0:48:35.120 --> 0:48:37.640 to be more open about things that they haven't heard 0:48:37.640 --> 0:48:41.600 of it or experienced. Um, we don't sort of try 0:48:41.640 --> 0:48:45.520 and get into the creepy music or the creepy stories 0:48:45.520 --> 0:48:48.239 and I don't know special effects sounds and all that 0:48:48.320 --> 0:48:50.920 kind of stuff, And we're very jokey and very casual 0:48:50.960 --> 0:48:54.680 in our conversations because I want people to just experience 0:48:54.760 --> 0:48:57.520 it in a in a lighthearted, like they're just talking 0:48:57.560 --> 0:48:59.600 with their friends kind of way. So I really don't 0:48:59.600 --> 0:49:01.960 want to scare people at all. But it is all 0:49:02.000 --> 0:49:04.800 still related in that same kind of universe where it's 0:49:04.840 --> 0:49:07.880 the unknown, like horror is fear of the unknown, and 0:49:08.320 --> 0:49:12.560 all these supernatural matters of things that are unknown. So 0:49:12.719 --> 0:49:16.640 I guess in a way it is it is connected. Um, 0:49:16.719 --> 0:49:19.839 were you one of those kids who wanted to try 0:49:19.840 --> 0:49:22.839 to connect with the unknown? Like did you like being 0:49:22.840 --> 0:49:28.040 scared and bring it? I definitely don't want to actually 0:49:28.040 --> 0:49:30.960 experience it's it's kind of weird, like I sort of 0:49:31.000 --> 0:49:34.239 just accept that they're there, and then it's kind of if. 0:49:34.680 --> 0:49:36.560 And then people ask, so you want to see proof, 0:49:36.560 --> 0:49:38.120 and I'm like, no, no, I don't need to see proof. 0:49:38.120 --> 0:49:39.960 I'm just like, yeah, that's fine, if they're there, I 0:49:40.040 --> 0:49:42.799 just don't want to actually see them. They're still to me, 0:49:42.840 --> 0:49:46.160 it's irrational that I can sort of be skeptical but 0:49:46.280 --> 0:49:49.919 also believing but also not wanting proof. At the same time, 0:49:50.040 --> 0:49:53.359 it doesn't really it's not quite logical, but that's just 0:49:53.560 --> 0:49:56.239 that's just how it is, it I think, I mean, 0:49:56.360 --> 0:49:59.479 it sounds a lot like faith in religion, like every 0:49:59.520 --> 0:50:02.040 faith and legion, right, I mean, we believe in things 0:50:02.040 --> 0:50:04.480 we can't see and we don't not need to be proven, 0:50:04.520 --> 0:50:07.279 and I so I don't think it's um. Look, look, 0:50:07.800 --> 0:50:09.960 you know Halloween is fast approaching by the time this 0:50:10.000 --> 0:50:12.759 episode airs. I'm not sure if Halloween will have come 0:50:12.800 --> 0:50:15.839 and gone. But even in the West, it's like, you know, 0:50:16.120 --> 0:50:18.920 there is this kind of like at least kind of 0:50:18.960 --> 0:50:20.600 like there's a desire to want to believe in it 0:50:20.760 --> 0:50:23.680 um and and actually a desire to kind of want 0:50:23.719 --> 0:50:26.080 to be scared. We love the horror movies. We love 0:50:26.120 --> 0:50:28.400 the scare of the jump scares and stuff. All right, 0:50:28.560 --> 0:50:30.600 let me ask you, was there ever a time when 0:50:32.000 --> 0:50:36.319 you were actually really scared of any experience that you had. 0:50:36.400 --> 0:50:39.200 Maybe you opened a door to something you didn't want, 0:50:39.280 --> 0:50:42.640 or you set a prayer for help and instead of 0:50:42.680 --> 0:50:47.000 help something happen an entity that was dark and scary 0:50:47.040 --> 0:50:51.919 instead came to you. Yeah. Uh, well, actually that's uh, 0:50:51.960 --> 0:50:55.839 that's one of the reason I kind of a sort 0:50:55.840 --> 0:51:00.400 of you know, stop doing these sort of things and oh, 0:51:00.440 --> 0:51:02.800 you're not doing it anymore, but I need to help. Wait, 0:51:04.920 --> 0:51:09.680 the thing is like mm hmm, I still called myself 0:51:09.760 --> 0:51:15.680 first in the beginner's sort of thing, and I haven't 0:51:15.760 --> 0:51:20.920 really yet met the very what you call that personality 0:51:21.040 --> 0:51:27.920 gene yet. Uh, but it's not it's not impossible that 0:51:28.080 --> 0:51:32.480 if I keep doing it, I will meet a gene 0:51:32.480 --> 0:51:39.319 who who is more powerful than I do. Then it 0:51:39.520 --> 0:51:44.880 can you know, endangered my myself sort of thing. Because 0:51:44.920 --> 0:51:47.680 I realized it's my knowledge is still for the you know, 0:51:47.960 --> 0:51:50.880 for the shallow in this in this what do you 0:51:50.960 --> 0:51:57.360 call it gen's business? So I decided, okay, um, maybe 0:51:57.480 --> 0:52:00.840 maybe I shouldn't, you know, continue of being you know, 0:52:01.040 --> 0:52:04.560 this sort of thing. At least I knows about who 0:52:04.600 --> 0:52:06.920 they are and how they live and how can we 0:52:07.040 --> 0:52:11.359 can sort of live togethers And I have knowledge about them, 0:52:11.400 --> 0:52:14.520 and it's already sort of enough for me, you know, 0:52:14.680 --> 0:52:19.200 I don't have to take it further because because again 0:52:20.760 --> 0:52:23.000 I'm not meant to be that kind of a person, 0:52:23.080 --> 0:52:25.080 you know. It just it's just something that happened to 0:52:25.120 --> 0:52:29.120 me in in you know, in a concidencly you know, 0:52:29.600 --> 0:52:32.319 so you actually stop doing all this kind of work. 0:52:33.320 --> 0:52:35.719 But once you have it just still kind of like, 0:52:36.520 --> 0:52:40.200 you know, it's still carried with you. But I did not, 0:52:40.920 --> 0:52:43.239 you know, take it further sort of thing. You know, 0:52:43.680 --> 0:52:47.200 I still can feel it, but but maybe in the 0:52:47.239 --> 0:52:51.160 old days. Uh. It's a funny thing because in the 0:52:51.239 --> 0:52:54.279 old day I just treated it's just like a new 0:52:54.360 --> 0:52:57.719 friend to me, you know, like if I if I 0:52:57.760 --> 0:52:59.840 have nothing to do it that I just you go 0:53:00.040 --> 0:53:02.759 about in the end, the start calling one of them 0:53:02.800 --> 0:53:05.839 and have some sort of you know, conversation with them. 0:53:05.840 --> 0:53:11.200 You know, so that's why you're hanging out on the balcony. Wow, 0:53:11.200 --> 0:53:16.959 it's amazing. So from from that experience, I learned quite 0:53:16.960 --> 0:53:20.640 a bit about but you know how they leave and 0:53:20.960 --> 0:53:23.000 tell me, tell me about that, Tell me what you learned. 0:53:23.000 --> 0:53:27.359 I want to I want to hear this. Well. Uh, 0:53:29.239 --> 0:53:32.040 I have a good story before dad Dad starts. It's 0:53:32.080 --> 0:53:34.520 just something that I thought of. Is you mentioned in 0:53:34.520 --> 0:53:37.000 in your episode Rabbia about there's all the different genes 0:53:37.040 --> 0:53:39.719 and the different kinds there are. There's the one that's 0:53:39.719 --> 0:53:42.879 sort of attached to a person or a family. Yeah, 0:53:43.160 --> 0:53:47.280 so our family like the extended family, um, like dad's 0:53:47.320 --> 0:53:50.480 siblings and that kind of stuff. There is actually supposedly 0:53:51.080 --> 0:53:54.040 one or some is a dad that sort of protecting 0:53:54.080 --> 0:53:58.160 the family. M oh yeah, okay, okay, they've been passed 0:53:58.160 --> 0:54:02.040 down through generations something like that. Yet And is that 0:54:02.160 --> 0:54:04.480 something you were told about growing up or like everybody 0:54:04.520 --> 0:54:07.120 in the family kind of knows or um it was. 0:54:07.239 --> 0:54:10.120 I think I heard about it when I was grown up. 0:54:10.120 --> 0:54:12.759 So I had already left gone to Australia and come 0:54:12.800 --> 0:54:15.600 back and one of those times because stories and things 0:54:15.600 --> 0:54:19.000 like this, information just comes in like you know, this 0:54:19.080 --> 0:54:21.680 cousin had a baby and we have a gin guardian 0:54:21.760 --> 0:54:25.400 for the family, that kind of thing. So and it 0:54:25.520 --> 0:54:27.440 was just like, okay, so that's something else that this 0:54:27.560 --> 0:54:30.480 family has amongst all the other things. So yeah, that's 0:54:30.480 --> 0:54:33.640 something Dad would know much more about. Because I'm not 0:54:33.760 --> 0:54:37.080 up with all the Indonesian gossip, okay, okay, Well, I 0:54:37.080 --> 0:54:38.480 want to hear of the guss about the general. I 0:54:38.520 --> 0:54:40.359 want to know what the GM live like and what 0:54:40.400 --> 0:54:42.080 you learned from them, and then I want to hear 0:54:42.080 --> 0:54:48.120 about your family. Jin. Well actually, yeah, in Indonesia, just 0:54:48.320 --> 0:54:52.799 as you mentioned before, in the old days, because you know, 0:54:52.880 --> 0:54:56.799 Indonesian were colonized by Dutch were quite sometimes so our 0:54:56.920 --> 0:55:01.880 ancestors are are all grandparents, you know, always in the world. 0:55:02.000 --> 0:55:07.640 It does so to a certain extent. They use jeans 0:55:07.719 --> 0:55:12.719 to help, right, So the gene is passed on from 0:55:12.800 --> 0:55:17.120 generation to generation to help the family to basically it's 0:55:17.320 --> 0:55:23.640 uh just like a guardian kind of thing. Uh and 0:55:23.680 --> 0:55:26.600 then's passed on from a family to family to family 0:55:26.800 --> 0:55:34.400 until I think my my my father uh side. And 0:55:35.880 --> 0:55:41.399 this story basically it's very interesting because I did at 0:55:41.400 --> 0:55:44.759 the time, I didn't know about that. But I have 0:55:45.200 --> 0:55:49.359 a producers film producers friends who who I work with 0:55:49.360 --> 0:55:53.680 her quite some often. All of a sudden he called 0:55:53.719 --> 0:55:57.920 me and I said, oh, arno, uh can we, you know, 0:55:58.120 --> 0:56:01.480 meet up have a coffee? I said, oh yeah, what 0:56:01.640 --> 0:56:03.719 what's what's all about? And now I have something to 0:56:03.840 --> 0:56:06.720 tell you said, oh yeah, I said, okay, So so 0:56:07.000 --> 0:56:10.040 you know, we made up and have a coffee. And 0:56:10.280 --> 0:56:13.759 I asked her, okay, what is this all about? And 0:56:13.800 --> 0:56:18.360 she said, okay, next to you, this uh, this person, 0:56:18.440 --> 0:56:21.480 he said, what person? You know? It was in the 0:56:21.640 --> 0:56:23.920 in the cafe. In the cafe and he said, this 0:56:24.040 --> 0:56:27.000 new person dressed like this and this this is this 0:56:27.520 --> 0:56:34.440 and he said, he has one, uh guardian to your family. 0:56:34.840 --> 0:56:36.799 And I said, no, I didn't. I didn't know. What 0:56:36.920 --> 0:56:38.640 is it? What is it? What? What is it? What 0:56:38.680 --> 0:56:42.320 does she want? I didn't know that. Then my family 0:56:42.400 --> 0:56:45.759 has a guarden known as not for not you know, 0:56:45.800 --> 0:56:49.680 from your family, but from your father's and father's families. Okay, 0:56:49.680 --> 0:56:54.040 what does he wants? So he told my my At 0:56:54.040 --> 0:56:56.279 that time, I didn't know. I didn't know, but this 0:56:56.360 --> 0:56:59.439 sort of spiritual thing, you know, I was still pure 0:56:59.480 --> 0:57:07.960 and simple. So so she said, uh, as he asked 0:57:08.000 --> 0:57:13.040 you whether his surface is still needed? Oh my gosh, said, 0:57:13.280 --> 0:57:19.280 I said, what surface? Where he's been uh, guarding your 0:57:19.320 --> 0:57:25.320 family you know for this uh quite quite sometimes now, 0:57:25.680 --> 0:57:31.120 you know. And now it seems like nobody's really really 0:57:31.160 --> 0:57:37.400 you know, cares about his presence. Well because you know, 0:57:38.320 --> 0:57:41.680 my family basically you can call it modern family, so 0:57:41.720 --> 0:57:45.720 we don't really into that sort of thing anymore. He needed, 0:57:45.760 --> 0:57:51.400 he needn't need be needed. Yeah. So so so he 0:57:51.400 --> 0:57:56.520 he asked me whether my family still needs his surface 0:57:56.800 --> 0:58:01.440 to guarding the family. Uh, And I said, well, I 0:58:01.520 --> 0:58:03.840 don't know about it. I asked my family, you know, 0:58:03.960 --> 0:58:08.680 and what's happening? So I get my family, my siblings 0:58:08.800 --> 0:58:12.600 or together, and I told them about what's happening. That 0:58:12.680 --> 0:58:15.840 I met a friend of mine and told them about 0:58:15.880 --> 0:58:21.080 what's happening. And my eldest but uh said, oh yeah, 0:58:21.160 --> 0:58:24.280 this is from you know, from the great great brand 0:58:24.280 --> 0:58:28.880 fathers and this and the suffer. Okay, So now you know, 0:58:28.960 --> 0:58:32.600 I asked you all whether we still want him to 0:58:33.280 --> 0:58:38.160 god us, you know, if not, then I let him 0:58:38.160 --> 0:58:41.920 go and do whatever, you know, become a genior or something, 0:58:41.920 --> 0:58:45.440 you know. Uh. And so now of course my family, 0:58:45.520 --> 0:58:49.200 you know, family not into that sort of thing. No, no, 0:58:49.200 --> 0:58:51.760 no they can you know, he's free to go whatever, 0:58:51.920 --> 0:58:55.600 you know, and uh and and just say thank you 0:58:55.640 --> 0:58:58.080 for all this time. The surface they're given to the family, 0:58:58.400 --> 0:59:02.480 so you know, so I I didn't know how to 0:59:02.520 --> 0:59:05.680 do that, but but I just said to him, okay, 0:59:05.680 --> 0:59:08.360 who whoever you are, who you're getting my family? And 0:59:08.440 --> 0:59:12.360 I said, the family that you know now don't really 0:59:12.560 --> 0:59:16.480 need your first surface, but the appreciate of the surface 0:59:16.560 --> 0:59:20.280 has been given to family for this summertime, and now 0:59:20.400 --> 0:59:23.600 you're free to go. So you know, basically this is 0:59:23.640 --> 0:59:25.520 what I do. You know, because I didn't know how 0:59:25.560 --> 0:59:28.360 to communicate with Gin at that time, you know, right, right, 0:59:29.240 --> 0:59:32.840 So the family gin is gone, the family gene is gone. 0:59:32.880 --> 0:59:35.880 So it's you know, but I didn't put him in 0:59:35.920 --> 0:59:40.640 the bottle. Right Well, let me ask you this. You know, um, 0:59:40.640 --> 0:59:42.840 when when you said that, you got to learn a 0:59:42.840 --> 0:59:45.360 lot about like Gin life and how the Gin are 0:59:45.440 --> 0:59:48.480 and the Gin world is. Right, the most calm portrayal 0:59:48.520 --> 0:59:51.000 of the Gin in the Western imagination is exactly that 0:59:51.040 --> 0:59:52.880 you find a bottle, you rub it, the genie comes 0:59:52.880 --> 0:59:55.400 out and says, I'll grant you three wishes. Does that 0:59:55.440 --> 0:59:58.440 actually exist in the genie world? From it's from your 0:59:58.480 --> 1:00:01.960 interactions with Gin, it doesn't seem like the genner there 1:00:01.960 --> 1:00:05.280 to like just grant wishes. They might help. Granting wishes 1:00:05.360 --> 1:00:07.760 is like bringing you something like some money or or 1:00:08.640 --> 1:00:12.000 making you wealthy or you know, instead of helping you 1:00:12.120 --> 1:00:16.080 solve something or fix the problem. Well, basically that's what 1:00:16.200 --> 1:00:20.400 I that's what I find out. Yeah, when I you know, 1:00:21.560 --> 1:00:24.600 I had a lot of conversation. If eat gene, they 1:00:24.640 --> 1:00:28.960 are just like us, you know, they are a good gene, 1:00:29.040 --> 1:00:32.360 they're a bad gene there, you know, just like in 1:00:32.440 --> 1:00:35.600 our daily life, there is a crook, there is a 1:00:35.600 --> 1:00:39.480 banded this whatever, and there's also good people as well. 1:00:40.280 --> 1:00:43.800 So that's that's what I found out. So to me, 1:00:45.360 --> 1:00:48.600 those gene who are bad, those who are trying to 1:00:48.640 --> 1:00:52.120 scare us a bit, whatever operason that they they you know, 1:00:52.240 --> 1:00:56.640 manipulation that they do to human being, that that are 1:00:56.840 --> 1:01:01.600 the kind of gene who are the baby the good one? 1:01:01.680 --> 1:01:03.880 They don't do it sort of don't trust those ones, 1:01:03.920 --> 1:01:06.320 the ones who make those promises, that's what you're saying. 1:01:07.440 --> 1:01:12.560 That's that's right, because because the problem we don't say them, 1:01:12.640 --> 1:01:15.160 so we don't really know what they're doing. So why 1:01:15.440 --> 1:01:19.120 why we're trusting something that you don't really you know 1:01:21.720 --> 1:01:28.360 all about them? So uh we you know, have you 1:01:28.800 --> 1:01:31.400 have you ever come across In one of the episodes 1:01:31.680 --> 1:01:34.280 um that will air, I'm going to talk a little 1:01:34.280 --> 1:01:38.760 bit about relationships between gin and human beings. Is that 1:01:38.840 --> 1:01:40.760 something you've ever seen? And when I say relationship, I 1:01:40.800 --> 1:01:46.480 mean like an actor like a romantic relationship. Yeah, because 1:01:46.520 --> 1:01:51.360 that that was actually my first experience. That's what can 1:01:51.360 --> 1:01:56.600 you talk about it? When I actually my first experience 1:01:56.920 --> 1:01:59.920 when when this this this man to the past, it 1:02:00.000 --> 1:02:03.600 on the knowledge to me and he wanted to to 1:02:03.640 --> 1:02:07.120 test it whether I can you know, I can utilize 1:02:07.240 --> 1:02:09.880 knowledge you've given to me. So he's sort of sort 1:02:09.920 --> 1:02:12.880 of like calling, you know, a few genes and go 1:02:12.960 --> 1:02:16.840 and go and talk to me through through my body. 1:02:17.000 --> 1:02:19.840 And I become became a medium this sort of thing, 1:02:19.920 --> 1:02:26.280 you know. And and surprisingly he said to me, okay, 1:02:26.320 --> 1:02:30.480 I have given you. I passed it on to you. Uh, 1:02:31.480 --> 1:02:35.880 this such and such a gene. He he's a male 1:02:36.000 --> 1:02:40.800 gene and this he is big and whatever. She just 1:02:40.960 --> 1:02:42.880 described it to me, and it just passed it on 1:02:42.960 --> 1:02:47.200 to me. So I can't feel it how they are 1:02:47.480 --> 1:02:50.280 if they are within me sort of thing, you know. 1:02:51.200 --> 1:02:57.240 And it's very it is every single jeans are quite different. Yeah, 1:02:57.920 --> 1:03:01.320 the feeling that's uh, that I've felt at that time, 1:03:01.400 --> 1:03:06.520 you know. And and in the last he said to me, 1:03:08.000 --> 1:03:12.600 I'm gonna pass it on a female gene, so you 1:03:12.680 --> 1:03:14.959 can tell the different if it's a female or male. 1:03:15.120 --> 1:03:19.840 So so, so he is passing on and and and 1:03:20.000 --> 1:03:24.000 I said, yeah, it is different, it's quite different. It's 1:03:24.120 --> 1:03:27.160 more gentle sort of thing. The gentle feelings come in 1:03:27.760 --> 1:03:34.080 two to your bodies. And and and he started making question. 1:03:34.560 --> 1:03:37.640 He asked the gene who what are you doing? And 1:03:38.080 --> 1:03:41.439 what's your name? And where where you from that sort 1:03:41.480 --> 1:03:45.280 of thing, you know, and it is very funny because, uh, 1:03:47.000 --> 1:03:49.920 he asked, who are you and he said, I mean 1:03:50.000 --> 1:03:53.640 sat in such it. I think I told the nieces 1:03:53.840 --> 1:03:58.040 to it. Uh. The names, the name that you know 1:03:58.240 --> 1:04:02.640 that that I it's very I don't know, it's just 1:04:03.320 --> 1:04:06.480 un human name sort of thing, you know. Okay, it's 1:04:06.480 --> 1:04:09.160 not named that we're used to, and that's right. And 1:04:09.440 --> 1:04:12.120 and said, okay, what are you doing here? Well, I 1:04:12.200 --> 1:04:15.800 just passed on this house and you called me, said okay, 1:04:16.240 --> 1:04:18.560 and wherever do you live in it? And she said 1:04:18.600 --> 1:04:25.760 I live in India? It's really yeah. Yeah. And what 1:04:26.000 --> 1:04:28.960 is your family? I'm the daughters of a king, said 1:04:29.600 --> 1:04:33.960 mh in India. He said, okay, how old are you? 1:04:34.560 --> 1:04:38.560 And I can I can't remember it, but still teenages basically, 1:04:38.760 --> 1:04:43.080 you know, he's still teenages. And and this man asked 1:04:43.080 --> 1:04:46.640 me are you are you married it? No, I'm still 1:04:46.800 --> 1:04:50.160 I'm still a teenager seventeen years and again do you 1:04:50.240 --> 1:04:53.520 want to get married? Oh? Yes, I said, And that's 1:04:53.520 --> 1:04:56.320 what she said. And you do you like arian and 1:04:56.400 --> 1:05:00.720 she said yes, I like my U. This is a 1:05:00.880 --> 1:05:04.560 very you know. I I just sort of really stunned, 1:05:04.600 --> 1:05:07.240 you know, just you're hearing these answers come out of 1:05:07.280 --> 1:05:10.360 your own mouth. That's right. Just just like just just 1:05:10.560 --> 1:05:14.160 like this, just like I'm talking to you, I'm using it, 1:05:14.280 --> 1:05:16.120 but you know it's not you, but it's you. You're 1:05:16.120 --> 1:05:20.360 not I know, I'm using you know, like right at 1:05:20.440 --> 1:05:23.680 this moment, I'm using a headset. Nobody says this, says 1:05:23.720 --> 1:05:26.720 I'm talking to someone, but I'm talking because I hear 1:05:26.840 --> 1:05:30.360 you talking through much. It's a sort of a similar sponcept. 1:05:30.760 --> 1:05:33.200 You know, I hear them talking, I know it is 1:05:33.440 --> 1:05:40.960 not me, right right, and so basically they I give 1:05:41.040 --> 1:05:46.800 myself to amplify their voice kind of concept. Yeah, and 1:05:47.040 --> 1:05:50.280 you know, yeah, okay, I like him. Okay, do you 1:05:50.320 --> 1:05:53.240 want to marry here? You know why not? I mean, 1:05:53.280 --> 1:05:56.040 you know, I make it a very very casual and 1:05:57.320 --> 1:06:02.000 and this this man said, I would that my spiritual guru. 1:06:03.040 --> 1:06:07.080 He staid, uh, he married that. But and you know what, 1:06:07.400 --> 1:06:13.080 what's very surprising to hear the answer, And he said 1:06:13.320 --> 1:06:19.400 we're Muslim his for wife. No, And I know, I 1:06:19.560 --> 1:06:24.120 just laughing, you know, and I just laughing and and said, okay, 1:06:24.200 --> 1:06:26.640 oh yeah, no, no, no, he doesn't he doesn't want 1:06:26.680 --> 1:06:28.640 you to get Okay, you can. You can, you can 1:06:28.720 --> 1:06:32.120 just go okay, So this was an opportunity you had 1:06:33.120 --> 1:06:36.320 and you didn't take. There are people apparently who have 1:06:36.480 --> 1:06:38.840 taken the opportunity to say, yeah, I'm going to establish 1:06:39.640 --> 1:06:43.000 a relationship with the gin, a marriage or romantic relationship. 1:06:43.280 --> 1:06:44.920 Have you ever met somebody like that? Do you know 1:06:45.000 --> 1:06:49.320 anybody like that? Uh? Well, I I read quite a 1:06:49.440 --> 1:06:54.520 lot of people who hasn't married Jean, but I never 1:06:55.600 --> 1:07:00.320 encounter with someone that I knew. Would you recommend tnue 1:07:01.280 --> 1:07:05.959 for those who are single and looking at what actually 1:07:06.080 --> 1:07:12.720 it may happen? You know why? Because um, it is 1:07:12.800 --> 1:07:15.840 a versus in the court on that said, all you 1:07:15.960 --> 1:07:22.240 mankind married your own kind, so meaning there's a possibility 1:07:22.400 --> 1:07:25.840 that they can marry the under kind, right right, right, 1:07:25.960 --> 1:07:29.720 But that is so true. Yeah, yeah, married your own kind, 1:07:30.080 --> 1:07:34.240 especially otherwise if they cannot do that, just you know, 1:07:34.680 --> 1:07:37.479 God wouldn't have to tell you that, Yeah, exactly. Yeah, 1:07:37.960 --> 1:07:41.240 so because some people may do it. And then in Indonesia, 1:07:41.800 --> 1:07:46.560 uh yeah, I heard quite a lot of people who 1:07:47.320 --> 1:07:52.800 you know who has a different kind of Yeah, you 1:07:52.880 --> 1:07:55.200 can look it up on the internet too. There are 1:07:55.240 --> 1:08:00.160 people who claim it another thing. Why why it's sort 1:08:00.200 --> 1:08:06.160 of confirm this theory because my this is my own sibling, 1:08:06.560 --> 1:08:12.000 my own sister. Yeah, at the time, she was still 1:08:12.120 --> 1:08:18.519 married to her husband, and there's excellently Oh well, at 1:08:18.560 --> 1:08:22.600 that time, he thought it was her husband came to 1:08:22.840 --> 1:08:30.080 the room, and she knows that her husband's still out there. Um, okay, 1:08:30.240 --> 1:08:35.080 I have chills again. What that's that's that's that's what 1:08:36.120 --> 1:08:39.200 you know. So somebody came into her bedroom and it 1:08:39.320 --> 1:08:43.720 looked like her husband, but she knew her husband. And 1:08:43.800 --> 1:08:47.160 then what happened, Well, because she knew, of course, you know, 1:08:47.760 --> 1:08:53.280 she she automatically sort of we call it, uh, what 1:08:53.479 --> 1:08:58.840 is it? This must be a gene immitate. Yeah, because 1:08:58.960 --> 1:09:01.560 they can't many feel then shift into different you know, 1:09:02.600 --> 1:09:08.400 different shape, they wont being being an energy. So yeah, 1:09:09.160 --> 1:09:11.599 she was able to get rid of it. Oh yes, yeah, 1:09:11.640 --> 1:09:15.720 because she knows. Yeah, yeah, so ANSA at the I 1:09:15.880 --> 1:09:20.479 really hope that we can have another another conversation, maybe 1:09:20.560 --> 1:09:22.080 in a few months, and have you guys back on 1:09:22.160 --> 1:09:24.240 because I have so many more questions and I bet 1:09:24.320 --> 1:09:26.000 you our listeners when we have questions. So if you 1:09:26.040 --> 1:09:27.880 guys are open to it, would you guys be willing 1:09:27.920 --> 1:09:31.519 to come back for another chat? Later, I think that 1:09:32.479 --> 1:09:35.280 this than either. So here we have more stories than 1:09:35.320 --> 1:09:37.240 I will. But I totally get it. But Lisa, at 1:09:37.240 --> 1:09:38.880 the beginning, at the top of our interview, you did 1:09:38.920 --> 1:09:42.719 say you had a story to share, didn't you say that? Yeah? 1:09:43.000 --> 1:09:45.840 Oh my go to story. Yeah, let's hear the go 1:09:46.000 --> 1:09:49.040 to story. Um. Well, actually Dad was there when this happened, 1:09:49.080 --> 1:09:51.519 So maybe that's why it happened, because he was there, 1:09:51.560 --> 1:09:55.080 because nothing's ever happened and I'm by myself. Um, but 1:09:55.320 --> 1:09:57.600 this is in my parents house when we just moved in. 1:09:59.400 --> 1:10:00.880 I think we'd been in there maybe for about a 1:10:00.960 --> 1:10:03.679 week or so, and Dad and I were just sitting 1:10:03.720 --> 1:10:06.800 in the living room watching TV one night, maybe around 1:10:06.880 --> 1:10:08.559 nine or nine thirty, and it was just the two 1:10:08.600 --> 1:10:11.560 of us in the living room and we have this 1:10:12.520 --> 1:10:15.240 glass these glass doors in the living room that lead 1:10:15.280 --> 1:10:20.120 out to the backyard. Um, so you can see outside. 1:10:20.479 --> 1:10:23.080 We had the light on, the blinds were still up 1:10:23.120 --> 1:10:25.840 so you could still see outside that there was nothing there, 1:10:25.920 --> 1:10:28.680 no one there. And just all of a sudden, the 1:10:28.840 --> 1:10:32.080 doors started shaking like someone was trying to open the 1:10:32.160 --> 1:10:35.639 door but couldn't because it was locked. And this went 1:10:35.760 --> 1:10:38.519 on and there wasn't an earthquake happening. No, no, because 1:10:39.000 --> 1:10:43.000 in Indonesia we get earthquakes, um, and you know what 1:10:43.160 --> 1:10:47.360 they feel like, the you feel, you feel the earth move, 1:10:47.479 --> 1:10:49.599 you feel whatever you're sitting on or lying on move. 1:10:49.720 --> 1:10:51.600 This was we were just sitting there and it was 1:10:51.680 --> 1:10:54.280 just the sound and the movement of the doors shaking. 1:10:54.760 --> 1:10:56.880 And both of you saw this happen. And yeah, we 1:10:57.000 --> 1:10:59.160 both heard it because it was quite. It was loud. 1:10:59.240 --> 1:11:01.360 It wasn't just like a little rattling. It was like 1:11:01.439 --> 1:11:03.479 a proper like you know, let me in, that kind 1:11:03.520 --> 1:11:07.200 of shaking of a door. And this is like the 1:11:07.400 --> 1:11:09.519 first and only thing that's ever happened to me that's 1:11:09.600 --> 1:11:12.400 related to this. And I just kind of looked at it, 1:11:12.600 --> 1:11:15.000 and I looked at Dad, waiting for him to give 1:11:15.040 --> 1:11:19.040 an explanation. He didn't. He was just like whatever. And 1:11:19.160 --> 1:11:21.160 I was like, I can't even remember what I said. 1:11:21.320 --> 1:11:23.240 If I said what was that? I think I probably 1:11:23.280 --> 1:11:26.040 said what was that? And then just got creeped out. Um. 1:11:27.160 --> 1:11:30.439 And then this, this is related to something about in 1:11:30.520 --> 1:11:34.559 Indonesia when you when you go into new spaces, um, 1:11:36.400 --> 1:11:40.200 places that are unfamiliar that you sort of then the 1:11:40.320 --> 1:11:43.400 different the belief is different. Depending on if you're religious 1:11:43.439 --> 1:11:45.639 or not. If if you're not religious, you might think 1:11:45.680 --> 1:11:49.400 you're asking permission from the being or the gin too 1:11:50.240 --> 1:11:53.200 passed by, or to live there. If you're a Muslim, 1:11:53.240 --> 1:11:57.360 you might be just sort of not asking permission, but 1:11:57.520 --> 1:12:01.000 rather introducing yourself and say, hey, I live here now, 1:12:01.080 --> 1:12:03.360 and let's sort of get along kind of thing. So 1:12:04.000 --> 1:12:07.120 my interpretation is that because we were newly moved in, 1:12:07.280 --> 1:12:10.160 and maybe we hadn't no one had said hi, were 1:12:10.200 --> 1:12:12.559 then you the new people who live in this house, 1:12:12.800 --> 1:12:14.479 You're going to have to live with us. Yeah, the 1:12:14.560 --> 1:12:16.760 gene was kind of like, hey, I'm here, can you 1:12:16.920 --> 1:12:19.320 sort of introduce yourself or something. I don't know, maybe 1:12:19.360 --> 1:12:21.760 it was something like that, but maybe Dad we've talked 1:12:21.760 --> 1:12:24.120 about this, but I've never actually asked Dad what his 1:12:24.280 --> 1:12:27.400 interpretation of that event was, or if you notice anything, 1:12:27.439 --> 1:12:33.799 do you remember that night? Because uh, it always happened 1:12:33.800 --> 1:12:37.920 to a new person who came to our house, because 1:12:38.000 --> 1:12:42.479 it because one once we were the whole family went 1:12:42.520 --> 1:12:49.320 to Australia. So I asked the uh, uh, what you 1:12:49.439 --> 1:12:54.920 call it? A person that I know to stay there 1:12:55.520 --> 1:12:58.120 in the house to look after a while in Australia. 1:12:58.680 --> 1:13:01.479 So that's actually what happened to him. He said, I 1:13:01.600 --> 1:13:04.360 was I was sleeping in, you know, in in the 1:13:04.520 --> 1:13:07.040 TV room. You know, it was suddenly it's just like 1:13:07.200 --> 1:13:11.760 someone started to get in, you know, shaking the glass door, 1:13:12.280 --> 1:13:16.080 and I was so scared? Is it? So I said, well, 1:13:16.200 --> 1:13:19.519 you know, because because you were new. They answered, maybe 1:13:20.320 --> 1:13:24.800 maybe they can't take it. Didn't really know who you are, 1:13:25.880 --> 1:13:29.919 so try to get you it. Maybe maybe the guardian 1:13:30.000 --> 1:13:38.360 Jim thought, this person is like trespassing exactly. Wow. Well, um, 1:13:38.560 --> 1:13:40.200 I'm gonna have to wrap up, but I want to 1:13:40.200 --> 1:13:44.240 ask you one last question. Um, and again, please please, 1:13:44.240 --> 1:13:45.679 I would love to have you guys back on because 1:13:45.760 --> 1:13:47.960 especially I have so many more I only hear all 1:13:47.960 --> 1:13:51.240 your stories. But let me see this. Where does your 1:13:51.320 --> 1:13:54.200 very first episode for Arcapela Ghost was with your father 1:13:54.439 --> 1:13:56.600 talking about gin and I and I saw that you 1:13:56.800 --> 1:13:58.760 you said an email to me that that was he 1:13:58.800 --> 1:14:01.880 had suggested that topic. And now I understand why because 1:14:01.920 --> 1:14:04.920 he knows all about it. What other things are you like? 1:14:05.040 --> 1:14:07.000 What other kinds of entities? Because you know, I happen 1:14:07.040 --> 1:14:10.200 to be I happen to be that that like raised 1:14:10.240 --> 1:14:12.360 in a way, it's like anything unexplained Oh, it's this 1:14:12.479 --> 1:14:15.160 old gin, right, it's a oldgin. So but what what 1:14:15.280 --> 1:14:17.559 other kind of beliefs and things are gonna be talking 1:14:17.600 --> 1:14:21.920 about in future episodes? Um? So Yeah, like as as 1:14:21.960 --> 1:14:25.519 a Muslim, yeah, you believe all these different manifestations or 1:14:25.600 --> 1:14:28.960 basically lead back to Gin. But if if you're not 1:14:29.040 --> 1:14:32.240 a Muslim, or if you maybe not a completely believing 1:14:32.360 --> 1:14:36.040 or um practicing one, you think that they're all separate things. 1:14:36.160 --> 1:14:40.600 So um for example, like episode two is um I 1:14:40.720 --> 1:14:43.200 call it a legend, but some people also call her 1:14:43.240 --> 1:14:47.360 a gin queen. Her name is near Kid and she's 1:14:47.400 --> 1:14:49.800 called the Queen of the South Sea, and she's supposedly 1:14:49.880 --> 1:14:53.160 the queen of a kingdom in um the Sudden Sea 1:14:53.240 --> 1:14:58.799 of Java. Uh and yeah there's um one of amazing 1:14:59.000 --> 1:15:03.479 is that? Is that a so too? That's episode two? Okay, 1:15:04.200 --> 1:15:07.360 she's very interesting. Um. And then we've got episode three 1:15:07.479 --> 1:15:11.080 talking about actual possessions, which is also another thing that's 1:15:11.200 --> 1:15:13.720 very common in Indonesia. You can talk about someone being 1:15:13.760 --> 1:15:17.200 possessed as casually as someone getting a new job. For example, 1:15:17.320 --> 1:15:19.559 Like people will ask questions, but they won't be very 1:15:19.600 --> 1:15:22.280 surprised if you tell someone that you know they know 1:15:22.439 --> 1:15:25.200 someone who was possessed. Um. Yeah, there's a whole bunch 1:15:25.240 --> 1:15:29.840 of other different beings and shapes. There's one of the 1:15:29.880 --> 1:15:32.040 episodes that we're going to do. I'm going to talk 1:15:32.080 --> 1:15:35.240 about the Big Three, which is the most famous or 1:15:35.320 --> 1:15:41.040 most well known of Indonesia's supernatural beings. Um. And one 1:15:41.160 --> 1:15:44.639 is aunt, which is the typical Asian black, long hair, 1:15:44.880 --> 1:15:48.759 white dress, that kind of image, um, like the wronged 1:15:48.840 --> 1:15:52.160 woman kind of thing. And then yeah, and then one 1:15:52.280 --> 1:15:54.599 is a Potchong, which you might be familiar with when 1:15:54.680 --> 1:15:56.560 I tell you, But basically a pot young is in 1:15:56.640 --> 1:15:58.960 the form of when a Muslim is buried, how they're 1:15:58.960 --> 1:16:01.400 wrapped in the white often then you have the ties 1:16:02.960 --> 1:16:05.800 around I think the neck and the feet and the 1:16:05.840 --> 1:16:09.880 waist and something like that. That's that's an actual being 1:16:10.840 --> 1:16:13.719 that's quite well known. It appears like that. It appears 1:16:13.760 --> 1:16:16.240 like that, and it's it's quite funny because because it's 1:16:16.280 --> 1:16:19.360 still tied up, they can only get around by jumping, 1:16:19.760 --> 1:16:24.240 so it's not very bad. Takes away to terrifying a 1:16:24.280 --> 1:16:26.679 little bit. And then the last one of the Big 1:16:26.760 --> 1:16:29.680 Three is um. This one actually could be related quite 1:16:29.720 --> 1:16:32.519 well to Gin. This one's called a Thuyo. It's the 1:16:32.720 --> 1:16:34.519 in the in the form of like a little a 1:16:34.560 --> 1:16:39.680 little kid that's baled, and they can be um. They 1:16:39.720 --> 1:16:42.720 can be sort of I guess, looked after like a pet, 1:16:42.800 --> 1:16:45.439 and they do your bidding. And usually they're used by 1:16:46.360 --> 1:16:48.840 people called dukun, which is like a shaman or a 1:16:48.880 --> 1:16:53.800 black magic practitioner. They own Duo, they own Thuyo sorry, 1:16:53.880 --> 1:16:56.600 these little beings, and they can be told to go 1:16:56.720 --> 1:16:59.920 to people's houses and steal money for them. It's something bubble. 1:17:00.040 --> 1:17:02.280 It's kind of like, yeah, like a little bit um. 1:17:02.360 --> 1:17:04.639 I think my my sister talks about a story where 1:17:04.720 --> 1:17:07.200 she sort of said, because this is my sister, she 1:17:07.400 --> 1:17:09.599 saw something when she was younger, and we think maybe 1:17:09.680 --> 1:17:11.320 she saw it though you and she said it looked 1:17:11.360 --> 1:17:14.280 like a like Dobby from Harry Potter. There you go. Yeah, 1:17:15.479 --> 1:17:17.439 but um yeah, so if you sort of because there 1:17:17.479 --> 1:17:20.960 are these gin's that you can, like you talked about before, 1:17:21.000 --> 1:17:25.640 the transactional idea of if you ask for something from 1:17:25.680 --> 1:17:27.360 a gin, that gin will want something back to you. 1:17:27.479 --> 1:17:29.560 So the idea with these tool there the shape of 1:17:29.600 --> 1:17:32.680 a little kid um, you actually have to like give 1:17:32.720 --> 1:17:35.120 them toys and give them food. And apparently there's one 1:17:36.000 --> 1:17:39.240 belief where you have to breastfeed them, which is really gross. 1:17:39.400 --> 1:17:42.280 Oh my goodness. Yeah, but then they will go to 1:17:42.360 --> 1:17:45.320 people's houses and steal money and jewelry and stuff for you. 1:17:45.600 --> 1:17:47.880 So I might have more questions about the breastfitting one. Um, 1:17:47.920 --> 1:17:51.479 but I also go back to that, don't you have 1:17:51.560 --> 1:17:53.840 to be lactating to do? Okay? Well, anyway, I'm getting 1:17:53.840 --> 1:17:58.040 too technical here. Um, well so you okay, So where 1:17:58.120 --> 1:18:00.400 can listeners find your podcast? I must I think it's 1:18:00.439 --> 1:18:03.160 on most of most of the most apps. Yeah, it's 1:18:03.320 --> 1:18:08.640 It's definitely on iTunes and Google Spotify, Um, it's And 1:18:08.760 --> 1:18:11.280 then you can just listen straight on out and our website, 1:18:11.320 --> 1:18:13.519 which is a capella ghosts with an S at the 1:18:13.640 --> 1:18:19.800 end dot com. I hope you enjoyed that conversation as 1:18:19.920 --> 1:18:22.800 much as I did. Now there are as many people 1:18:22.920 --> 1:18:25.479 in the world with Jin stories as there are gin, 1:18:26.120 --> 1:18:28.320 so if you have one you'd like to share, make 1:18:28.360 --> 1:18:30.920 sure to email it to me at the Hidden Gin 1:18:31.200 --> 1:18:34.840 at gmail dot com. That's the Hidden Gin. Th H 1:18:34.960 --> 1:18:38.280 E H I D D N d J I n 1:18:38.479 --> 1:18:42.280 N at gmail dot com. And until next time, remember 1:18:42.920 --> 1:18:53.160 we are not alone. The Hidden Gin is a production 1:18:53.240 --> 1:18:56.400 of I Heart Radio and Grimm and mild from Aaron Mankey. 1:18:57.160 --> 1:19:00.400 The podcast is written and hosted by Robbia Chaudre and 1:19:00.479 --> 1:19:04.839 produced by Miranda Hawkins and Trevor Young, with executive producers 1:19:04.880 --> 1:19:09.360 Aaron Mankey, Alex Williams, and Matt Frederick. Our theme song 1:19:09.560 --> 1:19:13.160 was created by Patrick Quartets. For more podcasts from I 1:19:13.320 --> 1:19:17.400 Heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 1:19:17.880 --> 1:19:19.480 or wherever you get your podcasts.