Speaker 1: Welcome to The Hidden Gin, a production of I Heart
Speaker 1: Radio and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Manky. Hi, and
Speaker 1: welcome to this very special bonus series of The Hidden Gin.
Speaker 1: The interviews in these episodes, you'll hear me talk to
Speaker 1: people from all walks of life who have had GIN experiences,
Speaker 1: are drawn through the stories of Gin and draw lessons
Speaker 1: from these stories. You'll hear from artists, scholars, writers, journalists,
Speaker 1: and gin exorcists, and even from me as I discuss
Speaker 1: how and why this series came about in a very
Speaker 1: personal conversation with my husband. Thanks for listening and enjoy
Speaker 1: this week. I am excited to bring to you an
Speaker 1: interview with not just one, but two people, a father
Speaker 1: and daughter team that I discovered when I came upon
Speaker 1: a podcast called Archipela Ghosts. First of all, it's such
Speaker 1: a clever name, and the reason I discovered it was
Speaker 1: because they actually were listening to The Hidden Gin and
Speaker 1: they tweeted at us, and I was enthralled, and so
Speaker 1: I took a listen, and believe it or not, they
Speaker 1: talked about Jin the very first episode. One of the
Speaker 1: hosts in that episode was interviewing her own father, Ariento,
Speaker 1: an amazing man who had an entire lifetime of experience
Speaker 1: with gin. Now, both Anissa and of course her father Ayento,
Speaker 1: are from Indonesia and so their experience with this entity
Speaker 1: is culturally different than mine. But I was fascinated and
Speaker 1: hoped and I said, listen, I would love to talk
Speaker 1: to you guys more. I want to learn more from Arienta.
Speaker 1: So let me tell you a little bit about Anissa
Speaker 1: and Ariento. Anissa grew up in Australia and Indonesia. She
Speaker 1: studied arts at the University in Sydney, and she worked
Speaker 1: in various positions actually in the film industry for about
Speaker 1: fifteen years, including doing exhibition and distribution. Last year she
Speaker 1: moved the United States. She lives near Philly right now.
Speaker 1: She loves all things spooky, is an avid reader of
Speaker 1: historical fiction, and of course now the co host of
Speaker 1: Archipela Ghosts, a very cool podcast. Now. Her father, Aranto,
Speaker 1: is sixty seven years old. He was born in East
Speaker 1: Java and Indonesia. He had moved to Australia after marrying
Speaker 1: an Australian woman, where they lived for many years. And
Speaker 1: he comes from a really large family, eight or nine siblings.
Speaker 1: Now he studied civil engineering, but then when he came
Speaker 1: back to Indonesia from Australia, he actually started his own
Speaker 1: advertising agency. He also plays music's very Fond Jazz and
Speaker 1: is an art director by skill. Now, it would seem
Speaker 1: that none of these things kind of line up with
Speaker 1: what you're about to hear in terms of his experience
Speaker 1: and abilities with the supernatural, but prepare to be amazed. Um.
Speaker 1: First of all, I want our listeners to know it's
Speaker 1: like ten pm at night. Anissa and I are on
Speaker 1: the East Coast in the United States, but Arianta is
Speaker 1: all the way across the globe in where are you
Speaker 1: right now? And Jakarta, Jakarta and Indonesia. Thank you so much,
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for organ for Agreen to come on.
Speaker 1: It's a weekend, so it's early in the morning for you.
Speaker 1: It's great. UM. So I told our listeners a little
Speaker 1: bit about you guys before we jumped on the call
Speaker 1: and UM, but I first want to actually start off
Speaker 1: by Anissa, how I kind of discovered you and your show,
Speaker 1: and I want you to tell us a little bit
Speaker 1: about um with you, a little bit of your personal
Speaker 1: background and then how you came to do this podcast.
Speaker 1: About like Indonesian ghosts basically. Okay, So, um, I've had
Speaker 1: this podcast called a Cappella Guys, and it's still very
Speaker 1: very new. It's only like, I think, two episodes out now.
Speaker 1: But it came about from one day I was speaking
Speaker 1: with my husband and my brother. I asked him he
Speaker 1: had this story which is in his episode, about when
Speaker 1: he sort of had an encounter possibly with the supernatural
Speaker 1: being um A Gin possibly, and UM I sort of
Speaker 1: thought to myself, this, this is like really fun, and
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people don't know about this
Speaker 1: kind of stuff from Indonesia, um, the crazy different beings
Speaker 1: and mystical things that that are that are around, and
Speaker 1: Indonesia itself as a country I think is not maybe
Speaker 1: quite as known around the world as well. So Um,
Speaker 1: I come from a film industry background. Most of my
Speaker 1: working life has been in the film industry, so I've
Speaker 1: always been really attracted to and interested in just telling
Speaker 1: stories in general, and um experiencing different kinds of um
Speaker 1: like because I really love documentaries, different kinds of people's
Speaker 1: backgrounds and all that kind of stuff. So I thought
Speaker 1: be really like, I obviously can't make going to into
Speaker 1: Indonesia at the moment because we're all on sort of
Speaker 1: not lockdown really, but we're not allowed to leave the country.
Speaker 1: But that would have been great. But so I thought
Speaker 1: instead of making like a little documentary series, I could
Speaker 1: do a podcast instead. Um, and so is this your
Speaker 1: first podcast? The first time podcasting? Um? A few years ago.
Speaker 1: I did have one that didn't last very long. It
Speaker 1: was with a friend of mine from Australia. Was a
Speaker 1: horror film podcast, so we'd watch horror seasons. Like a
Speaker 1: trend here. It's a little bit of a trend, kind
Speaker 1: of like a little ghostie kind of trend. So yeah,
Speaker 1: well let me ask you so and so, you clearly
Speaker 1: have kind of a creative streak and you'd like to
Speaker 1: tell stories. What about you do have a bit of
Speaker 1: a creative background as as your father? Is she getting
Speaker 1: this from you? Well? I usually I'm basically right right
Speaker 1: hand brain for somewhere. I always been a in secreative
Speaker 1: person since I was you know, as long as I remember,
Speaker 1: you know, But I don't know. Somehow I ended up
Speaker 1: started the civil engineering and only to find out that,
Speaker 1: you know, it doesn't really suit me. So I went
Speaker 1: to Australia basically just for your adventuring and ended up
Speaker 1: studies in advertising and design. So you're from civil engineering
Speaker 1: to advertise it, so that means like a creative field. Really,
Speaker 1: that's right. Yeah, so since then I are working at
Speaker 1: you in an advertising industry. Um, after sixteen years in Australia,
Speaker 1: as I decided to come back to Indonesia because at
Speaker 1: the time, you know, advertising was were really booming here.
Speaker 1: So I came to Indonesia and it started my uh
Speaker 1: own agency and yeah, so basically I'm a creative person myself. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And you played jazz, yes, I played yes, right, So
Speaker 1: so yeah, but I don't hear in any of your
Speaker 1: backgrounds like this theme that connects to like the supernatural
Speaker 1: or the paranormal or any of that. Is that just
Speaker 1: something like it is something like you kind of grew
Speaker 1: up with a nissa. Are these like stories you told
Speaker 1: your daughter? Areent? Like? How? Why? Why is this family
Speaker 1: interested in this? Did you sit around the dinner table
Speaker 1: and talk about this? Actually it's not. It's quite right,
Speaker 1: you know, because we've been growing up with this kind
Speaker 1: of you know, we don't we don't really call it supernatural,
Speaker 1: which as a young young kid, we know we know
Speaker 1: what there is uh, what you call that a ghost?
Speaker 1: So basically we grow grow up with this kind of thinking.
Speaker 1: Uh not until we not until we've grown grown up
Speaker 1: and learns about a little bit about religions and understood
Speaker 1: that this entity called gene right, So uh in Indonesia,
Speaker 1: this kind of thing is just like maybe similar in
Speaker 1: other Muslim country. It's just like part of daily daily things.
Speaker 1: You know, we talked about our experience. Oh you know
Speaker 1: last night, this is what happened, and what happened. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: and you have differences and yeah, I said the same thing.
Speaker 1: So it just becomes like a daily things, you know,
Speaker 1: just like part of a you know, like everyday life,
Speaker 1: part of everyday, everyday life exactly. Know, so we do
Speaker 1: we never really sort of surprise, but what's happening with
Speaker 1: other people because oh yeah, yeah, I sum it is
Speaker 1: the same thing and it's sort of things you know.
Speaker 1: So so that's interesting. You know. Um, in my family,
Speaker 1: you know I come from a Muslim family, they are
Speaker 1: how do I say this? My family was not like
Speaker 1: super um spiritual. We never talked about I wanted to
Speaker 1: as a kid, we never did. And I would just
Speaker 1: like crave it from other families, you know, like in
Speaker 1: other families that are more like kind of sufie and
Speaker 1: more mystical families, more they practice the religion and more
Speaker 1: aceteche of fashion. But it sounds like like this was
Speaker 1: so much part of the kind of the culture, the
Speaker 1: in an age of culture that wasn't considered something that
Speaker 1: people would look at and think, well, that's kind of weird. Um,
Speaker 1: like this is this kind of an accepted reality. Is
Speaker 1: that what it was like for you growing up on Issa? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that's pretty spot on actually, because it is
Speaker 1: so this is something I think I talk about a
Speaker 1: lot when in the podcast, but also when I explained
Speaker 1: to people is it is so much a part of
Speaker 1: everyday life that it's not odd and it's not something
Speaker 1: we think of mentioning. Oh, by the way, there are
Speaker 1: these there are a lot of these supernatural stories or
Speaker 1: mystical beings around. It's just you know, people have jobs,
Speaker 1: people go to school, and this kind of stuff is
Speaker 1: part of everyday life. So it's not really always something
Speaker 1: that you think to mention or to single out specifically.
Speaker 1: In a sense, it's just part of the the blanket
Speaker 1: of life in Indonesia. I guess now the interesting thing
Speaker 1: to me, And I think I heard you speak about
Speaker 1: this a bit in the episode I heard um with
Speaker 1: Orianda on it is that this is not it's not
Speaker 1: really limited to like Indonesian Muslims. I mean, Indonesia is
Speaker 1: a diverse country with there are other religious populations there,
Speaker 1: and so is this more cultural that it is religious?
Speaker 1: Would you? Would you guys say yeah, definitely, yeah, because
Speaker 1: um Dad might know more about this sort of than
Speaker 1: I do, especially has lived there longer. But Um, the
Speaker 1: history of Indonesia was there was like the animism, dynamism,
Speaker 1: um beliefs before any religions came, and that already it
Speaker 1: was quite spiritual. But then Hinduism came, Buddhism came, then
Speaker 1: Islam came, but there was always that belief in a
Speaker 1: super spiritual and a supernatural before any religion. So I
Speaker 1: think that's why all Indonesians, regardless of their beliefs. Do
Speaker 1: you believe in some form of this kind of stuff?
Speaker 1: I mean that kind of that's pretty yeah. Okay, can
Speaker 1: you expand on that a bit because what's interesting to
Speaker 1: me about Okay again, my family from Bakas is a
Speaker 1: majority of Muslim Sunni Muslim country, very very tiny populations
Speaker 1: of Hindus and Christians and Seeks very tiny populations. And
Speaker 1: there is absolutely i would say, other than some cultural
Speaker 1: practices like that the food you eat or the way
Speaker 1: you dress, there's like zero, i would say, almost zero
Speaker 1: overlap with a lot of the spiritual beliefs. So can
Speaker 1: you add, can you talk to me a little bit
Speaker 1: about how that how that exists Indonesia because these are
Speaker 1: very different religious traditions Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, They're very very
Speaker 1: different religions. Yeah. Well, bas basically because um, when Islam
Speaker 1: came to Indonesia, Uh, they they you know, they they
Speaker 1: found a little bit of what you call that rejection
Speaker 1: because of the cultures at the time, basically Hinduism and
Speaker 1: Buddhism and Buddhism. So they found a way how to
Speaker 1: to make the people accept Islam by a little bit
Speaker 1: combining between both. Oh okay, there was some compromise there
Speaker 1: that they said exactly, there's some compromised For example, like
Speaker 1: Hinduism they do all of a ritual of offering and
Speaker 1: sort of stuff, while and Muslim we don't have that
Speaker 1: sort of thing. So how they do it and they
Speaker 1: just allowed to do the thing but just change slightly
Speaker 1: with the intention of for God instead of for you know,
Speaker 1: the Kindu is God sort of thing. So that sort
Speaker 1: so this sort of compromise uh that that to you know,
Speaker 1: to to be lieve just to get the islams uh
Speaker 1: accepted by the people at that time. And this goes
Speaker 1: in the you know, for a long says and until
Speaker 1: finally people are really understood about Islam and accepted as
Speaker 1: you know, Islam itself without being what you got influenced
Speaker 1: by other beliefs sort of thing. Though still people who
Speaker 1: are practicing this, you know, there's a jewal beliefs sort
Speaker 1: of thing Indonesia they called a Muslim, but then they're
Speaker 1: still practicing a little bit about Hinduism or Buddhism. They
Speaker 1: hold on to like some of the the old ways
Speaker 1: hard that's exactly, yeah, exactly that You should tell Robbie
Speaker 1: about Jan. Yeah, who was Jan or what for exam? Yeah,
Speaker 1: for example, Jaw sort of like a spiritual belief you know,
Speaker 1: basically they are Muslim, but they're practicing some of the
Speaker 1: Hindu's rituals, you know, being being ja Java before Islam
Speaker 1: came to Indonesia. Basically are were Hindu's kingdoms, so they
Speaker 1: pretty pretty strong tradition on Hindu's ritual. So when Islam came,
Speaker 1: there were about nine and nine person we call it
Speaker 1: nine Suffies who came to Java and try to spread Islam.
Speaker 1: And they use lots of different way to attract people
Speaker 1: to Muslim And for example, in Java they even included Gamalan.
Speaker 1: Gamalan is a musical Javanese musical, uh, you know, like
Speaker 1: an but based on the Hindu's tradition something. So so
Speaker 1: they're kind of like mix it so you will find
Speaker 1: a little bit of Islamic for example, reciting with that
Speaker 1: kind of tone of intuison. Uh, you know, that's interesting,
Speaker 1: a toy of voice sort of thing. So yeah, the
Speaker 1: Sufis have always been the most flexible even pretty flexible
Speaker 1: in this in the subcontinent until yeah, I get that
Speaker 1: that's really interesting. Yes, So so that's u uh even
Speaker 1: even and that goes from generation into generations, you know,
Speaker 1: as a Javanese especially like I came from Madura, so
Speaker 1: we really don't have that sort of thing, you know,
Speaker 1: because it's sort of likely completely different different islands from Java,
Speaker 1: even though it's pretty close. So h even the Saltan
Speaker 1: in Java. In Java we called it are still practicing
Speaker 1: this sort of you know, you know, what would you
Speaker 1: call it views in using concept of belief. You know,
Speaker 1: though they call themselves as somethms a Muslim uh craton
Speaker 1: or or what if the kingdom or whatever it is
Speaker 1: you may call it, but it's always be uh some
Speaker 1: sort of Hindus influence included me in their daily activities. Okay,
Speaker 1: so I want to circle back to that influence, but
Speaker 1: first before we specifically especially on like the belief in
Speaker 1: supernatural and gin I mean most specifically, since that's what
Speaker 1: this podcast is about, but actually want to pivot to
Speaker 1: you for a little bit. And he said, don't want
Speaker 1: to ask you this. So somebody who kind of grew
Speaker 1: up in a family and a culture that was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: this is just a thing. It's like, oh okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think I saw somebody in my room last night,
Speaker 1: or maybe I saw a vision. Like it's just a
Speaker 1: part of your reality, that's not You don't have to
Speaker 1: question your sanity, you don't have to question whether it's
Speaker 1: real or not. But you you didn't grow up in
Speaker 1: Indonesia the entire time, right, you were also raised in Australia. Correct, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's right. So how did did that change for you? Then?
Speaker 1: Like then growing up in suddenly a culture that was
Speaker 1: like wait, what are you talking about? I mean, did
Speaker 1: you start to question your own kind of belief system?
Speaker 1: So I grew up in Australia until I was um,
Speaker 1: I think what was seven eight? Now I was eight
Speaker 1: when we moved, So I didn't really have too much
Speaker 1: of a concept of things around me. I guess, um,
Speaker 1: what what's the difference between Australia and Indonesia? Was just
Speaker 1: a different location where I was living. Um, So most
Speaker 1: of my growing up of like being actually aware of
Speaker 1: my surroundings and learning things, I think was mostly in
Speaker 1: Indonesia because that was from around eight to eighteen UM.
Speaker 1: And then moved to Australia for university. So that's that's
Speaker 1: when I realized the difference. How in Indonesia was very
Speaker 1: common every every day to sort of talk about gin
Speaker 1: and like how, um, there's this concept of pennunga, which
Speaker 1: is um sort of we kind of have quite a
Speaker 1: quite a lot of words that all are kind of interchangeable.
Speaker 1: For basically, what is gin or a spiritual being? Um?
Speaker 1: But the panungu is more of the idea of of
Speaker 1: being that inhabits a place. So for example, like in
Speaker 1: our house, Um, in my parents house, rather, there's apparent
Speaker 1: only these jin who live there, and they've sort of
Speaker 1: what is it, dad, there's like one in every room
Speaker 1: or something where they and they've they've helped us in
Speaker 1: the past, like this was in sort of our episode zero,
Speaker 1: like they apparently helped us when our house got robbed
Speaker 1: in all this kind of stuff. Oh my god, Okay,
Speaker 1: we don't listeners have to hear this story. You're saying,
Speaker 1: that's a matter of factly, how long have you been
Speaker 1: in that house with this jin? By the way, are years?
Speaker 1: So is that the house you grew up in? That
Speaker 1: Anita half of it? Yeah, we most of the time
Speaker 1: that I was there was in that house. Yet and
Speaker 1: when you were there, you were aware that they were
Speaker 1: just there. I didn't like because I'm not sensitive towards
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. So I've never I've never actually
Speaker 1: really seen anything or there's like the one story that
Speaker 1: I have that is, um, possibly when I experienced something,
Speaker 1: but I've never actually seen or heard or anything like that. Um,
Speaker 1: So to me, it's still something that's fairly in visible,
Speaker 1: that's fairly Um, theoretical in a sense because I've never
Speaker 1: really had that experience that a lot of people had,
Speaker 1: like Dad has had, that just makes you go, really,
Speaker 1: yet a hundred there there are these things, and I've
Speaker 1: experienced a connection with them. I haven't had that, So
Speaker 1: to me, there's still just something that's like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: they're they're supposed to be around, but I've never experienced it,
Speaker 1: so it's not an issue for me, not a problem.
Speaker 1: I do believe that. I mean, there are people who
Speaker 1: have just either heightened sensibility or sensitivity or or some
Speaker 1: kind of opening that others don't. And I'm like you
Speaker 1: and he so I'm I'm kind of like I'm waiting
Speaker 1: to or see it, but it's not happening. But you know,
Speaker 1: my husband warns me and says, don't don't tempt them,
Speaker 1: but don't tempt fate. Um, how did you How did
Speaker 1: you discover that there are were gin in every room
Speaker 1: of that house? Were they just like part of your
Speaker 1: you know, either a different generators. So they're the gin
Speaker 1: that kind of inhabited space and attached themselves to a place,
Speaker 1: and then they're genter that attached themselves to people and
Speaker 1: will follow them around like from place to place, house
Speaker 1: to house. Can you tell us a little bit about
Speaker 1: this gender and how you discover the exist? Well, First,
Speaker 1: first of all, there there um as an Indonesian. We
Speaker 1: all believe that, uh, they are everywhere, the jeans everywhere,
Speaker 1: even in our own house. We just sort of like
Speaker 1: a given, you know, we leave side by side with them. Uh.
Speaker 1: So that make it easier for us to just believe, Okay,
Speaker 1: there's a gin in this room, or the gene in
Speaker 1: the other room, or the gens in the garden, that
Speaker 1: sort of thing. But not until when I really actually, um,
Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe you can call it opening up
Speaker 1: my channel towards something that's more sensitive. Then I can
Speaker 1: sort of detect their being. You know though I actually
Speaker 1: that's happened, so it's not my intention. But it's more
Speaker 1: like because once I joined this uh this what you
Speaker 1: call it. It's not the martial art. It's more like
Speaker 1: a healthy uh what you call a crop some sort
Speaker 1: to develop your inner power for the purpose of you know,
Speaker 1: being more healthy and you know, can do things more
Speaker 1: that sort of stuff. Is it like a meditative type
Speaker 1: of thing or the mind It's it's sort of a
Speaker 1: combination meditation and and breathing exercise and and you know
Speaker 1: it's a Muslim also execute too, so it open It
Speaker 1: opened up the channel unintentionally maybe because I have that
Speaker 1: kind of a natures for that, but not everyone you
Speaker 1: know can that have that similar thing. But in my case,
Speaker 1: it opened my channels towards some you know, a different
Speaker 1: dimension that all this time I knew. Uh so when
Speaker 1: I had that Indian nation call it ILM is just
Speaker 1: like knowledge knowledge, but this is more like spiritual knowledge
Speaker 1: sort of thing. Uh, I didn't know what happened at
Speaker 1: that time? How come you know, all of a sudden
Speaker 1: I become very sensitive? H So can I ask you
Speaker 1: when was your When? When did you first realize something
Speaker 1: had changed? What was it? What event? Was it? One
Speaker 1: of one of the like if you sort of upgrading,
Speaker 1: you know when I DoD when I did this? Uh?
Speaker 1: What you call that uh inner powers exercise is to
Speaker 1: be able to detect some sort of differences of energy.
Speaker 1: You know. Uh for example, uh, you sort of blindfolded
Speaker 1: and then you you detected different colors has a different
Speaker 1: of uh you know, energy that you can really feel
Speaker 1: it with your hand, you know, So for example, black
Speaker 1: is this kind of string of powers. The red is
Speaker 1: this kind of you know, strange or yellow and so on.
Speaker 1: So in the end you can really read. So you
Speaker 1: can have with your with your eyes cloaked, without seeing
Speaker 1: the color. You can touch the color and tell what
Speaker 1: color it is from the energy it's emanating that that's right,
Speaker 1: just right, just like you have you have a big
Speaker 1: alphabet for example, and that's just like a sort of
Speaker 1: scann it over it, and you can tell the difference
Speaker 1: between white and black and white and black, and you, uh,
Speaker 1: in the end you can sort of figure out what
Speaker 1: what what aphabet is is, you know, because it's just
Speaker 1: like a scanning. Okay, so so how kind of how
Speaker 1: long did they take it? A master this sleight away?
Speaker 1: I mean, this must have taken years. It feels like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I actually two or three years something, you know, So
Speaker 1: so that kind of thing, and and uh, actually it's
Speaker 1: pretty simple based on the uh, the positive and negative
Speaker 1: energy because they don't mix sort of things. So based
Speaker 1: on that concept you can really tell, you know, if
Speaker 1: it's a positive or it's a negative energy sort of thing.
Speaker 1: So so let's say it started like that. So when I,
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes I went somewhere and all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: my whole body is just like being electrocuted, just like
Speaker 1: you know, they're kind of feeling like it's just a
Speaker 1: different sort of thing. So so I think, what's this,
Speaker 1: you know how kind of all of a sudden it
Speaker 1: became sort of like uh, you know, uh, you know
Speaker 1: in terms, yeah, sort of saying. So, not until I
Speaker 1: met this man who actually we call it men with
Speaker 1: lots of knowledge. He can uh detect that I have
Speaker 1: that kind of power, but I didn't realize at that
Speaker 1: time that I have it. So he said, look, if
Speaker 1: you want to, I can really help you and really
Speaker 1: opening up, you know, so you know exactly what's happening,
Speaker 1: you know, with yourself. So I so I said, okay,
Speaker 1: it's gonna affect me, and said no, no, no, I
Speaker 1: just want you will give you some sort of additional
Speaker 1: you know, additional knowledge of something. Okay, it's fine, I
Speaker 1: can live with it. So he did something, Okay, you
Speaker 1: just do you just accepting what ever happened to yourself.
Speaker 1: Don't try, don't try to fight against that. So he
Speaker 1: did something. I didn't know what he did, you know,
Speaker 1: because he sort of stood behind me. So I can
Speaker 1: really you know, I can just just let my body
Speaker 1: sort of a feeling following whatever it is that's just
Speaker 1: coming to me. And in the end in sense, he said, okay,
Speaker 1: now I'm finished certain that you do have this uh
Speaker 1: ability to you know, to to what you called to
Speaker 1: feel a different dimension. So if you want to, I
Speaker 1: can I can really give you this knowledge to you
Speaker 1: so you can sort of really make maximize utilize said
Speaker 1: and you said yes to that. But again again, I
Speaker 1: I kind of a person who always cure is about
Speaker 1: new thing, so including this thing you know. Okay, so yeah,
Speaker 1: sure I would like to have the of So you
Speaker 1: need to make it short sort of like what give
Speaker 1: it to me? I don't know what sort of ritual
Speaker 1: he did. Anyway, he give it to me, and he
Speaker 1: also give it the instruction. This is how you sort
Speaker 1: of switch it down and off your new knowledge sort
Speaker 1: of you can switch it on and off. Yeah, that's interesting.
Speaker 1: Is that? So like if you go somewhere where there
Speaker 1: might be a lot of energy or entity, it's like
Speaker 1: you just don't want to be disturbed, you switch it off.
Speaker 1: That's right. Yeah, So that's so he said. It is
Speaker 1: it is very important how to do it. So whatever
Speaker 1: is energy. For example, if you encounter with negative energy,
Speaker 1: they don't overpower you, you know, so you just switch
Speaker 1: it off instead of just let the whole thing, you know,
Speaker 1: overpower you, and you know how to deal with uh.
Speaker 1: So that's that, that's what happened. And he and the
Speaker 1: positive part not the positive you know, maybe the good
Speaker 1: thing that I can also help people, you know, with
Speaker 1: that knowledge helping in terms of for example, I can
Speaker 1: detect you know, sort of Okay, you have this sort
Speaker 1: of a problem in your body. I can help you
Speaker 1: to fix it, or maybe I can Is this I'm
Speaker 1: going to ask you something and this is gonna be
Speaker 1: kind of personal, But is this because you have developed
Speaker 1: the ability on your own or is this because you're
Speaker 1: like using the assistance of a gin to help you
Speaker 1: do it? Using the six the existence of gene the
Speaker 1: assistance like like gen helping you, that Jean's helping me.
Speaker 1: So that's that's what it is? What so wait wait
Speaker 1: wait you know you do have gen helping you? Yes,
Speaker 1: oh my god? Really is oh my gosh? Okay, because
Speaker 1: because you know, basically sort of live in one dimension
Speaker 1: and as a human human being, you don't have like
Speaker 1: a jewel dimension. But you can't go. It's across the
Speaker 1: dimension by help, by knowledge, vice versa. Like a gene
Speaker 1: can come to our dimension if the gene has knowledge
Speaker 1: to do it. If not, only just live it in
Speaker 1: you know, the real sort of thing. So yes, uh,
Speaker 1: And he said, you have a whole lot of questions
Speaker 1: now for your father, since you're just about I'm about
Speaker 1: to take over Robbie, and just asking in person, please
Speaker 1: Alfrey jumping because I don't have so many okay, yeah
Speaker 1: so so yes, so actually as a Muslim, I don't
Speaker 1: have any uh any what what you call uh disagreeing
Speaker 1: with this concept because you know, even even in the
Speaker 1: in the Koran and the king Solomons have lots of
Speaker 1: army of gens helped him build build his kingdom. So
Speaker 1: so so this this man, how I can call it
Speaker 1: my mentor whatever, this is the same thing. You know,
Speaker 1: you can ask him to do things as King Solomon
Speaker 1: asked the Jeans to do. Help him too, well, you
Speaker 1: need to build his kingdom. So as long as you
Speaker 1: know how to to to communicate with them and and
Speaker 1: you know, uh and looking after your respect over them
Speaker 1: and vice versa, so you can sort of work to me.
Speaker 1: Just wow, if I have a lot of questions about
Speaker 1: how you actually work with them, it's only ask you this,
Speaker 1: how are you when you recognize that your father has
Speaker 1: something going on? UM? I think actually when he first
Speaker 1: told me the story of UM, some of the things
Speaker 1: that he could do from this UM, this new cause
Speaker 1: that the meditation group that in the energy training that
Speaker 1: he did, because what's it called? Is there a name
Speaker 1: for this? Plung by the way for yeah, okay? And
Speaker 1: I think he started doing that when I was in
Speaker 1: high school, so I was aware sort of of what
Speaker 1: this group did, what they learned, and then he probably
Speaker 1: just told us a couple of things like maybe over
Speaker 1: dinner or breakfast, like oh we did this or something,
Speaker 1: and I was like okay, and just it was just
Speaker 1: left at that pretty much. Well, I do know how
Speaker 1: teenagers are. I mean, so, yeah, you can be pretty dismissive.
Speaker 1: Parent can be like I, you know, cured cancer, and
Speaker 1: the teenagers like all right, that's cool mom, Okay. But
Speaker 1: so but have you yourself witnessed your father like work
Speaker 1: in this space UM, working with people, or identifying things
Speaker 1: or anything kind of supernatural happening to him, even if
Speaker 1: you didn't experience something directly yourself. Did you have seen him? Um?
Speaker 1: Maybe the closest thing is so the thing you do
Speaker 1: with the healing people is where you put your hands
Speaker 1: on them. It's similar to um. Maybe some of your
Speaker 1: listeners might be more familiar with raiky um, where you
Speaker 1: put your hands yeah on on someone's body and you
Speaker 1: can either feel where they're where they're in pain or
Speaker 1: you can help heal them. That's something Um that the
Speaker 1: people in Satri and No Santada learned how to do.
Speaker 1: So Dad um has done that on me. If I
Speaker 1: hadn't known he was using gin at the time, I'd
Speaker 1: be like, whoa wait a minute. Um. But my aunt,
Speaker 1: whom is Dad's younger sister, she does this as well,
Speaker 1: but I don't know it does does something I need
Speaker 1: to do that as well. Is that's similar to what
Speaker 1: you did that or is it different? Well, see, sister,
Speaker 1: I think it's so what do you call that? Never
Speaker 1: studied anything of what I did, But it's sort of
Speaker 1: naturally can be you know, it's held in the debt
Speaker 1: ability to help people. M Yeah. So yeah. One time
Speaker 1: I just had, like I think, just pains in my
Speaker 1: neck and shoulders, which I get a lot and usually
Speaker 1: if you're in Indonesia, excuse me, it's it's pretty easy
Speaker 1: and cheap to go get a message. But one day
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, Dad, do you want to try
Speaker 1: to say if he can help? And so he was
Speaker 1: like putting his hands. I mean, it's like do you
Speaker 1: feel the hate? And I'm like a little bit. But
Speaker 1: then that was that was kind of I was like,
Speaker 1: I think that in terms of healing stuff like that,
Speaker 1: I didn't really need the help of genes, you know,
Speaker 1: because my own energies can can do it, you know.
Speaker 1: But for something that is more complicated, maybe I need
Speaker 1: a little bit of help of gene But in terms
Speaker 1: of a healing I don't really need it needed because
Speaker 1: you know, actually it's a part of what I learned
Speaker 1: in something and Santa I said, utilize my inner energy
Speaker 1: to help other people. So basically something that everyone can
Speaker 1: learn to do it, you know, without being in forfeit
Speaker 1: supernatural things. In my case is maybe because I have
Speaker 1: some sort of flair for the supernatural. So it's just
Speaker 1: sort of like a connecting thinking what I learned in
Speaker 1: what my ability to do other stuff. So and he
Speaker 1: to let me, I say, your reaction right now when
Speaker 1: you're joking. I know, um about it. But when you said, well,
Speaker 1: if I had known that you're using a gin or
Speaker 1: maybe not using a gina, is it because like you,
Speaker 1: even having grown up in a culture where it's very
Speaker 1: very normalized, there's still like a fear around it, like
Speaker 1: do you not want to get too close to these things? Um?
Speaker 1: I think because I don't have that sensitivity. It's and
Speaker 1: I said before, it was still kind of half theoretical
Speaker 1: to me, like that's not something that's very evident. So
Speaker 1: like I was joking before, like I think if dad
Speaker 1: had said I'm going to use a gin to help
Speaker 1: heal you, and I'd be like, okay, do it? Like yeah,
Speaker 1: um if it helps me, like you know, get rid
Speaker 1: of my neck pain, and that's great. Um. But in
Speaker 1: terms of other things, like for example, people will say,
Speaker 1: or like what I said before, how they're supposedly gin
Speaker 1: in every room of the house. It's like, okay, well
Speaker 1: they haven't done anything so far, so it's fine. Like
Speaker 1: how did you understand that that they just lived there
Speaker 1: like everybody else lives there. They don't want to mess
Speaker 1: with you, you don't want to just leave them alone?
Speaker 1: Or were they guardians or what what was the dynamic here?
Speaker 1: Um Dad probably mentioned it at some point during the
Speaker 1: years that I was living there during high school, and
Speaker 1: so because it is so um naturally accepted, it's just
Speaker 1: like okay, the here And then at first maybe it
Speaker 1: was a little bit like you kind of look around
Speaker 1: the room and go, okay, where is it is? Like
Speaker 1: is it watching me get undressed? And like can I
Speaker 1: go to the toilet? And then you just forget about it,
Speaker 1: and it's just like, yeah, well, if they're gonna see,
Speaker 1: they're gonna see. I suppose I don't think they really
Speaker 1: care at this point. So, um yeah, we'll be right
Speaker 1: back after the short break. I don't want to ask you,
Speaker 1: um specifically, it's one thing to learn, I think, um
Speaker 1: this discipline of how to kind of like feel energy
Speaker 1: and be able to detect the energy. It's another thing
Speaker 1: to be able to get gin to do what you want, right.
Speaker 1: I mean you talked about Solomon. Every Everything that I've
Speaker 1: learned in my research is that when people, when the
Speaker 1: jin do something for people, it's not for nothing. There
Speaker 1: is some kind of negotiation. They want something or now
Speaker 1: Solomon King Solomon was able to control them because he
Speaker 1: had the power of this ring. It wasn't they weren't.
Speaker 1: They weren't helping him happily, they were like they didn't
Speaker 1: have a choice. They write there were his place. So
Speaker 1: for you, first of all, how how did you learn?
Speaker 1: Because that's a whole another level. It's one thing to
Speaker 1: know that they exist, it's another or to be able
Speaker 1: to feel them or see them. It's another thing to
Speaker 1: be able to get them to work with you. How
Speaker 1: did you get to that point? And how do you
Speaker 1: do it? Well? Actually, um see the thing that I
Speaker 1: really sort of m you would you call that like
Speaker 1: about this new you know knowledge is because it's based
Speaker 1: on actually the power of God m hm. So before anything,
Speaker 1: before I start doing anything, I always make a prayer
Speaker 1: that you're the powerful God, You're the powerful and I
Speaker 1: just you as your your health, inducing your other creation.
Speaker 1: Basically it's like that. So so if it's not happening,
Speaker 1: it's not happening. It's not meant to be, you know,
Speaker 1: to be happened. So basically is uh is uh? Not
Speaker 1: entirely it's up to two jeans when to help you
Speaker 1: or not? That's right. So it's basically it's up to
Speaker 1: after God if it if you let me use gene
Speaker 1: to help me, then be it. If not, okay, no problem.
Speaker 1: It's sort of things. So I never promise anything like
Speaker 1: if I help people, so I always say ensial light
Speaker 1: will you know it'll do something good. If it's not,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe time and help you with other things,
Speaker 1: that sort of thing. Uh So, based on that believe,
Speaker 1: I never made any transaction. You know, as you said before,
Speaker 1: you know, if you if someone gene do something and
Speaker 1: we have to do something, you know, I never you know,
Speaker 1: I've never done things like that because, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: because it's not it's not what I believe. Basically, I
Speaker 1: don't believe the gene can take over as as human
Speaker 1: because we are we are most uh higher in the
Speaker 1: position in the rank compared to gene. So you actually
Speaker 1: don't think gen can possess human beings if they are
Speaker 1: strong enough, they can't. M hm. Just like just like
Speaker 1: you know, just like if you have a really strong fortress,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be very hard for enemy trying to penetrate it.
Speaker 1: It's a sort of a basic concept. It's you know,
Speaker 1: it's as simple as that. You know, if you're very
Speaker 1: strong in your faith, they won't be able to penetrate
Speaker 1: you and and manipulate you, unless if you let them
Speaker 1: to manipulate you by opening up a channel for them
Speaker 1: to come, then they will, you know, they will really
Speaker 1: manipulates to the maximum, because that's that's how they are.
Speaker 1: You know, there are many great manipulators. Are you able
Speaker 1: to identify like specific gen like for example, if you're
Speaker 1: using the power of ther gin to help in some
Speaker 1: situation and another time you're doing that again, can you
Speaker 1: tell this is the same gen? These are different gen?
Speaker 1: I mean, are you able to differentiate? And can you
Speaker 1: actually communicate with them? Yes? Because just like actually actually
Speaker 1: just like just like as a human being, you know,
Speaker 1: before we sort of have some sort of communication, you
Speaker 1: always ask, you know, what's your name and where you're from?
Speaker 1: Her You sort of thinks, oh my gosh, so you
Speaker 1: asked and they tell you yes, yeah, of course, because
Speaker 1: just like you know, just like very if we meet
Speaker 1: someone's somewhere and introduce ourselves, then so they introduced themselves
Speaker 1: and and you know we Wow, I have chills right now,
Speaker 1: I'm really friend, it's hard for me to good. But
Speaker 1: the interesting thing is the more you know they would
Speaker 1: is the less the less scared to us because we
Speaker 1: are scared of officer price, something that you don't expect, right,
Speaker 1: that's what scarre is all about. But if you know
Speaker 1: who they are and how they live is there's there's
Speaker 1: nothing to fear. Basically the unknown. They are known as
Speaker 1: the scariest thing, that's right. Yeah. So are you able
Speaker 1: to see them? Are you actually able to see them?
Speaker 1: Do they come to you in a certain form. I
Speaker 1: don't know about other people, but with myself, I don't.
Speaker 1: I cannot see them, but I can't tell. We call
Speaker 1: it matta matta hatty. We see them with our eyes
Speaker 1: that we see them are with our spiritual feeling. Okay.
Speaker 1: You know some people may say, oh I can see them.
Speaker 1: Maybe they have a sort of you know, quite ability
Speaker 1: to to penetrate with the their own eyes. But in
Speaker 1: in my case, I use my inner what you call matt,
Speaker 1: what you in the inner revision? So I sort of
Speaker 1: like described this is like this, Yeah, he's like there's
Speaker 1: always she's like this sort of thing. Can I ask
Speaker 1: you what kind of things that you might ask them
Speaker 1: other than the healing? What are the kinds of situations
Speaker 1: might you invite to help the gen? Oh? Uh? Well,
Speaker 1: for example, like like like finding, isn't it finding things? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: because basically, basically, gene can help us for something that's
Speaker 1: already happened, but not you know, they cannot predict, but
Speaker 1: they can help with something that's already happened. So they
Speaker 1: can't predict the future. They can't see the future, which
Speaker 1: means if somebody comes to you and says and ask
Speaker 1: for your help to predict something in the future or
Speaker 1: to help like a decision for the future, you cannot
Speaker 1: help that. You know, if they if someone will say
Speaker 1: that to me, at least they will manipulated by gin.
Speaker 1: I got it, because because they can. How can you know,
Speaker 1: how can gene see something that not even there yet?
Speaker 1: You not even there? Yeah, Basically it's as simple as that.
Speaker 1: So if it's something it's already happened, you can't ask
Speaker 1: them because they may not himself or herself witnessing what's happening,
Speaker 1: but maybe other Uh you know, I had the gene
Speaker 1: and witness thing, so to me, the theory basically just
Speaker 1: like googling, Oh my god, this is amazing. This is amazing.
Speaker 1: It's like just like if you want to know something,
Speaker 1: yeah you can, you can just see it. Behind your
Speaker 1: laptop over they when just googling and lots of employersing
Speaker 1: came into you and they just speak this one that's
Speaker 1: most suitable to you. So what it is too different
Speaker 1: with Gene. You know, I thought um anitsa before you
Speaker 1: joined UM the Call. I was telling you that this
Speaker 1: is not my first podcast. I've been podcasting for five
Speaker 1: years and I began my first podcast is about solving
Speaker 1: like wrong for conviction cases where innocent people are in prison.
Speaker 1: And the reason I got into that work is because
Speaker 1: I have been an advocate trying to free an innocent
Speaker 1: man since for a murder he was only a boy
Speaker 1: then seventeen. Uh and Ariana, I'm still trying to solve
Speaker 1: this murder. He's still in prison now and we have
Speaker 1: been fighting and fighting and fighting in the appeals. I
Speaker 1: might need your help, like I know, listen, I am,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm happy to go to court, I'm happy to
Speaker 1: go to the media. I will try political solutions and
Speaker 1: I will ask the gin if that's what it takes
Speaker 1: to free this poor boy, because he has been in
Speaker 1: prison for twenty years for something he didn't do. Uh.
Speaker 1: So maybe we can talk separately about because if anybody
Speaker 1: can help me solve this murder, then uh, then he
Speaker 1: can come home and be free. Finally, So, and I
Speaker 1: swear I'm not joking at all. So, um, this is
Speaker 1: but happy actually, But you know, so there is a
Speaker 1: phenomena at least in the United States where their law
Speaker 1: enforcement has worked with mediums and people who have these
Speaker 1: abilities where they're able to communicate. And so is that
Speaker 1: something you've ever done? Not not, you know, intuit it
Speaker 1: far much more like family matters so close French metter,
Speaker 1: but not something that is well, I'm going to introduce
Speaker 1: you to that whole world. Now that's gonna be great. Okay,
Speaker 1: So and Sai, Actually I'm kind of curious as you
Speaker 1: listen to your father talk about these abilities and that
Speaker 1: he's communicating with Gin and he can what like, what
Speaker 1: are you thinking do you think I would you fully
Speaker 1: believe to present this is your father? This is not
Speaker 1: like me talking a stranger where I'm like, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe I'm kind of skepital, do you do you like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's my dad, you know, is if he's saying it,
Speaker 1: it's the truth. Yeah, kind of because when it's when
Speaker 1: it's someone that you know that speaks about it. Um,
Speaker 1: you just kind of go okay, well, yeah, that's that's
Speaker 1: how it is. Um. I think I always call myself
Speaker 1: a skeptic, and it's it's a skeptic in in not
Speaker 1: the sense that I don't believe anything like this exists.
Speaker 1: It's more that I'm always questioning when people tell me things.
Speaker 1: But depending on the person who tells me. Like if
Speaker 1: you hear a story on you know, ghost hunting about whatever,
Speaker 1: you go, well, I don't know this person. They could
Speaker 1: just be doing it for a TV show. But when
Speaker 1: it's someone though I don't trust any of those teams,
Speaker 1: I don't. Yeah, but when it's someone that you know,
Speaker 1: it has a different weight to it has a different meaning. So, um,
Speaker 1: even though I don't experience yet, well does experience that,
Speaker 1: or yet my sister experienced that, and it just kind
Speaker 1: of it's accepted as fact and and yeah, just move on. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's it is a bit weird, Um. I think,
Speaker 1: especially for non Indonesians or maybe western quote unquote Western people,
Speaker 1: because it's it's not as accepted. When you talk about
Speaker 1: this kind of stuff, you can really get sort of
Speaker 1: some looks of like we'll look as far as I'm concerned. Yea,
Speaker 1: as far as I'm concerned, the worst has always looked
Speaker 1: to the east for enlightenment. Okay, we know what's going on.
Speaker 1: We know what's up that the demensure and so you know,
Speaker 1: we've been tapped into them for thousands of years and
Speaker 1: that's why. Um, in the West you have every so
Speaker 1: often grous pop up and may people all like fools
Speaker 1: out of people. But um, there's kind of a hunger
Speaker 1: and thirst. I think a lot of people all in
Speaker 1: the world. Yeah, the people believe that there is something
Speaker 1: because people on every culture experience, you know, things that
Speaker 1: they cannot explain. So there's like this thirst to have
Speaker 1: it explained. But until let me ask you something, um,
Speaker 1: and I mean I want to talk about like the
Speaker 1: specific gen stuff a little more with but let me
Speaker 1: ask you thing. You said that you had a podcast
Speaker 1: before a few years ago about horror, and now you're
Speaker 1: doing something and this is our archild probably goes which
Speaker 1: whether the way the name is brilliant, thinks I'm quite
Speaker 1: happy with the name. Yes, it's so clever. Who came
Speaker 1: up with the name itself? I did, and I's it's
Speaker 1: a funny little story. But when I told every single
Speaker 1: person I video called them because I wanted to see
Speaker 1: their expressions, and all my siblings, who are all younger
Speaker 1: than May just kind of rolled their eyes just did
Speaker 1: oh I had to get on a video call for
Speaker 1: this that kind of stuff. So they're not as impressed
Speaker 1: as you, So I think. Listen, I know how hard
Speaker 1: it is to brand a podcast. Let me tell you.
Speaker 1: I had a full production team from two different production
Speaker 1: companies and me trying to come up with a name
Speaker 1: for the show, and the best we could do was
Speaker 1: the hid Engine, which is not that creative. So Archapela
Speaker 1: Ghost is a brilliant name, and I even love your
Speaker 1: logo and stuff, so kudos on it. Um but but
Speaker 1: so yeah, so now, but Arcapela Ghost is not a
Speaker 1: Would you consider it like a horror podcast? Is it
Speaker 1: something that you want to scare people with? What is
Speaker 1: your point of doing this? Oh okay, so that's actually
Speaker 1: a really good question. The answer is no, I really
Speaker 1: don't want to scare people. I really want people just
Speaker 1: to be more open about things that they haven't heard
Speaker 1: of it or experienced. Um, we don't sort of try
Speaker 1: and get into the creepy music or the creepy stories
Speaker 1: and I don't know special effects sounds and all that
Speaker 1: kind of stuff, And we're very jokey and very casual
Speaker 1: in our conversations because I want people to just experience
Speaker 1: it in a in a lighthearted, like they're just talking
Speaker 1: with their friends kind of way. So I really don't
Speaker 1: want to scare people at all. But it is all
Speaker 1: still related in that same kind of universe where it's
Speaker 1: the unknown, like horror is fear of the unknown, and
Speaker 1: all these supernatural matters of things that are unknown. So
Speaker 1: I guess in a way it is it is connected. Um,
Speaker 1: were you one of those kids who wanted to try
Speaker 1: to connect with the unknown? Like did you like being
Speaker 1: scared and bring it? I definitely don't want to actually
Speaker 1: experience it's it's kind of weird, like I sort of
Speaker 1: just accept that they're there, and then it's kind of if.
Speaker 1: And then people ask, so you want to see proof,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, no, no, I don't need to see proof.
Speaker 1: I'm just like, yeah, that's fine, if they're there, I
Speaker 1: just don't want to actually see them. They're still to me,
Speaker 1: it's irrational that I can sort of be skeptical but
Speaker 1: also believing but also not wanting proof. At the same time,
Speaker 1: it doesn't really it's not quite logical, but that's just
Speaker 1: that's just how it is, it I think, I mean,
Speaker 1: it sounds a lot like faith in religion, like every
Speaker 1: faith and legion, right, I mean, we believe in things
Speaker 1: we can't see and we don't not need to be proven,
Speaker 1: and I so I don't think it's um. Look, look,
Speaker 1: you know Halloween is fast approaching by the time this
Speaker 1: episode airs. I'm not sure if Halloween will have come
Speaker 1: and gone. But even in the West, it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: there is this kind of like at least kind of
Speaker 1: like there's a desire to want to believe in it
Speaker 1: um and and actually a desire to kind of want
Speaker 1: to be scared. We love the horror movies. We love
Speaker 1: the scare of the jump scares and stuff. All right,
Speaker 1: let me ask you, was there ever a time when
Speaker 1: you were actually really scared of any experience that you had.
Speaker 1: Maybe you opened a door to something you didn't want,
Speaker 1: or you set a prayer for help and instead of
Speaker 1: help something happen an entity that was dark and scary
Speaker 1: instead came to you. Yeah. Uh, well, actually that's uh,
Speaker 1: that's one of the reason I kind of a sort
Speaker 1: of you know, stop doing these sort of things and oh,
Speaker 1: you're not doing it anymore, but I need to help. Wait,
Speaker 1: the thing is like mm hmm, I still called myself
Speaker 1: first in the beginner's sort of thing, and I haven't
Speaker 1: really yet met the very what you call that personality
Speaker 1: gene yet. Uh, but it's not it's not impossible that
Speaker 1: if I keep doing it, I will meet a gene
Speaker 1: who who is more powerful than I do. Then it
Speaker 1: can you know, endangered my myself sort of thing. Because
Speaker 1: I realized it's my knowledge is still for the you know,
Speaker 1: for the shallow in this in this what do you
Speaker 1: call it gen's business? So I decided, okay, um, maybe
Speaker 1: maybe I shouldn't, you know, continue of being you know,
Speaker 1: this sort of thing. At least I knows about who
Speaker 1: they are and how they live and how can we
Speaker 1: can sort of live togethers And I have knowledge about them,
Speaker 1: and it's already sort of enough for me, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't have to take it further because because again
Speaker 1: I'm not meant to be that kind of a person,
Speaker 1: you know. It just it's just something that happened to
Speaker 1: me in in you know, in a concidencly you know,
Speaker 1: so you actually stop doing all this kind of work.
Speaker 1: But once you have it just still kind of like,
Speaker 1: you know, it's still carried with you. But I did not,
Speaker 1: you know, take it further sort of thing. You know,
Speaker 1: I still can feel it, but but maybe in the
Speaker 1: old days. Uh. It's a funny thing because in the
Speaker 1: old day I just treated it's just like a new
Speaker 1: friend to me, you know, like if I if I
Speaker 1: have nothing to do it that I just you go
Speaker 1: about in the end, the start calling one of them
Speaker 1: and have some sort of you know, conversation with them.
Speaker 1: You know, so that's why you're hanging out on the balcony. Wow,
Speaker 1: it's amazing. So from from that experience, I learned quite
Speaker 1: a bit about but you know how they leave and
Speaker 1: tell me, tell me about that, Tell me what you learned.
Speaker 1: I want to I want to hear this. Well. Uh,
Speaker 1: I have a good story before dad Dad starts. It's
Speaker 1: just something that I thought of. Is you mentioned in
Speaker 1: in your episode Rabbia about there's all the different genes
Speaker 1: and the different kinds there are. There's the one that's
Speaker 1: sort of attached to a person or a family. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so our family like the extended family, um, like dad's
Speaker 1: siblings and that kind of stuff. There is actually supposedly
Speaker 1: one or some is a dad that sort of protecting
Speaker 1: the family. M oh yeah, okay, okay, they've been passed
Speaker 1: down through generations something like that. Yet And is that
Speaker 1: something you were told about growing up or like everybody
Speaker 1: in the family kind of knows or um it was.
Speaker 1: I think I heard about it when I was grown up.
Speaker 1: So I had already left gone to Australia and come
Speaker 1: back and one of those times because stories and things
Speaker 1: like this, information just comes in like you know, this
Speaker 1: cousin had a baby and we have a gin guardian
Speaker 1: for the family, that kind of thing. So and it
Speaker 1: was just like, okay, so that's something else that this
Speaker 1: family has amongst all the other things. So yeah, that's
Speaker 1: something Dad would know much more about. Because I'm not
Speaker 1: up with all the Indonesian gossip, okay, okay, Well, I
Speaker 1: want to hear of the guss about the general. I
Speaker 1: want to know what the GM live like and what
Speaker 1: you learned from them, and then I want to hear
Speaker 1: about your family. Jin. Well actually, yeah, in Indonesia, just
Speaker 1: as you mentioned before, in the old days, because you know,
Speaker 1: Indonesian were colonized by Dutch were quite sometimes so our
Speaker 1: ancestors are are all grandparents, you know, always in the world.
Speaker 1: It does so to a certain extent. They use jeans
Speaker 1: to help, right, So the gene is passed on from
Speaker 1: generation to generation to help the family to basically it's
Speaker 1: uh just like a guardian kind of thing. Uh and
Speaker 1: then's passed on from a family to family to family
Speaker 1: until I think my my my father uh side. And
Speaker 1: this story basically it's very interesting because I did at
Speaker 1: the time, I didn't know about that. But I have
Speaker 1: a producers film producers friends who who I work with
Speaker 1: her quite some often. All of a sudden he called
Speaker 1: me and I said, oh, arno, uh can we, you know,
Speaker 1: meet up have a coffee? I said, oh yeah, what
Speaker 1: what's what's all about? And now I have something to
Speaker 1: tell you said, oh yeah, I said, okay, So so
Speaker 1: you know, we made up and have a coffee. And
Speaker 1: I asked her, okay, what is this all about? And
Speaker 1: she said, okay, next to you, this uh, this person,
Speaker 1: he said, what person? You know? It was in the
Speaker 1: in the cafe. In the cafe and he said, this
Speaker 1: new person dressed like this and this this is this
Speaker 1: and he said, he has one, uh guardian to your family.
Speaker 1: And I said, no, I didn't. I didn't know. What
Speaker 1: is it? What is it? What? What is it? What
Speaker 1: does she want? I didn't know that. Then my family
Speaker 1: has a guarden known as not for not you know,
Speaker 1: from your family, but from your father's and father's families. Okay,
Speaker 1: what does he wants? So he told my my At
Speaker 1: that time, I didn't know. I didn't know, but this
Speaker 1: sort of spiritual thing, you know, I was still pure
Speaker 1: and simple. So so she said, uh, as he asked
Speaker 1: you whether his surface is still needed? Oh my gosh, said,
Speaker 1: I said, what surface? Where he's been uh, guarding your
Speaker 1: family you know for this uh quite quite sometimes now,
Speaker 1: you know. And now it seems like nobody's really really
Speaker 1: you know, cares about his presence. Well because you know,
Speaker 1: my family basically you can call it modern family, so
Speaker 1: we don't really into that sort of thing anymore. He needed,
Speaker 1: he needn't need be needed. Yeah. So so so he
Speaker 1: he asked me whether my family still needs his surface
Speaker 1: to guarding the family. Uh, And I said, well, I
Speaker 1: don't know about it. I asked my family, you know,
Speaker 1: and what's happening? So I get my family, my siblings
Speaker 1: or together, and I told them about what's happening. That
Speaker 1: I met a friend of mine and told them about
Speaker 1: what's happening. And my eldest but uh said, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: this is from you know, from the great great brand
Speaker 1: fathers and this and the suffer. Okay, So now you know,
Speaker 1: I asked you all whether we still want him to
Speaker 1: god us, you know, if not, then I let him
Speaker 1: go and do whatever, you know, become a genior or something,
Speaker 1: you know. Uh. And so now of course my family,
Speaker 1: you know, family not into that sort of thing. No, no,
Speaker 1: no they can you know, he's free to go whatever,
Speaker 1: you know, and uh and and just say thank you
Speaker 1: for all this time. The surface they're given to the family,
Speaker 1: so you know, so I I didn't know how to
Speaker 1: do that, but but I just said to him, okay,
Speaker 1: who whoever you are, who you're getting my family? And
Speaker 1: I said, the family that you know now don't really
Speaker 1: need your first surface, but the appreciate of the surface
Speaker 1: has been given to family for this summertime, and now
Speaker 1: you're free to go. So you know, basically this is
Speaker 1: what I do. You know, because I didn't know how
Speaker 1: to communicate with Gin at that time, you know, right, right,
Speaker 1: So the family gin is gone, the family gene is gone.
Speaker 1: So it's you know, but I didn't put him in
Speaker 1: the bottle. Right Well, let me ask you this. You know, um,
Speaker 1: when when you said that, you got to learn a
Speaker 1: lot about like Gin life and how the Gin are
Speaker 1: and the Gin world is. Right, the most calm portrayal
Speaker 1: of the Gin in the Western imagination is exactly that
Speaker 1: you find a bottle, you rub it, the genie comes
Speaker 1: out and says, I'll grant you three wishes. Does that
Speaker 1: actually exist in the genie world? From it's from your
Speaker 1: interactions with Gin, it doesn't seem like the genner there
Speaker 1: to like just grant wishes. They might help. Granting wishes
Speaker 1: is like bringing you something like some money or or
Speaker 1: making you wealthy or you know, instead of helping you
Speaker 1: solve something or fix the problem. Well, basically that's what
Speaker 1: I that's what I find out. Yeah, when I you know,
Speaker 1: I had a lot of conversation. If eat gene, they
Speaker 1: are just like us, you know, they are a good gene,
Speaker 1: they're a bad gene there, you know, just like in
Speaker 1: our daily life, there is a crook, there is a
Speaker 1: banded this whatever, and there's also good people as well.
Speaker 1: So that's that's what I found out. So to me,
Speaker 1: those gene who are bad, those who are trying to
Speaker 1: scare us a bit, whatever operason that they they you know,
Speaker 1: manipulation that they do to human being, that that are
Speaker 1: the kind of gene who are the baby the good one?
Speaker 1: They don't do it sort of don't trust those ones,
Speaker 1: the ones who make those promises, that's what you're saying.
Speaker 1: That's that's right, because because the problem we don't say them,
Speaker 1: so we don't really know what they're doing. So why
Speaker 1: why we're trusting something that you don't really you know
Speaker 1: all about them? So uh we you know, have you
Speaker 1: have you ever come across In one of the episodes
Speaker 1: um that will air, I'm going to talk a little
Speaker 1: bit about relationships between gin and human beings. Is that
Speaker 1: something you've ever seen? And when I say relationship, I
Speaker 1: mean like an actor like a romantic relationship. Yeah, because
Speaker 1: that that was actually my first experience. That's what can
Speaker 1: you talk about it? When I actually my first experience
Speaker 1: when when this this this man to the past, it
Speaker 1: on the knowledge to me and he wanted to to
Speaker 1: test it whether I can you know, I can utilize
Speaker 1: knowledge you've given to me. So he's sort of sort
Speaker 1: of like calling, you know, a few genes and go
Speaker 1: and go and talk to me through through my body.
Speaker 1: And I become became a medium this sort of thing,
Speaker 1: you know. And and surprisingly he said to me, okay,
Speaker 1: I have given you. I passed it on to you. Uh,
Speaker 1: this such and such a gene. He he's a male
Speaker 1: gene and this he is big and whatever. She just
Speaker 1: described it to me, and it just passed it on
Speaker 1: to me. So I can't feel it how they are
Speaker 1: if they are within me sort of thing, you know.
Speaker 1: And it's very it is every single jeans are quite different. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the feeling that's uh, that I've felt at that time,
Speaker 1: you know. And and in the last he said to me,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna pass it on a female gene, so you
Speaker 1: can tell the different if it's a female or male.
Speaker 1: So so, so he is passing on and and and
Speaker 1: I said, yeah, it is different, it's quite different. It's
Speaker 1: more gentle sort of thing. The gentle feelings come in
Speaker 1: two to your bodies. And and and he started making question.
Speaker 1: He asked the gene who what are you doing? And
Speaker 1: what's your name? And where where you from that sort
Speaker 1: of thing, you know, and it is very funny because, uh,
Speaker 1: he asked, who are you and he said, I mean
Speaker 1: sat in such it. I think I told the nieces
Speaker 1: to it. Uh. The names, the name that you know
Speaker 1: that that I it's very I don't know, it's just
Speaker 1: un human name sort of thing, you know. Okay, it's
Speaker 1: not named that we're used to, and that's right. And
Speaker 1: and said, okay, what are you doing here? Well, I
Speaker 1: just passed on this house and you called me, said okay,
Speaker 1: and wherever do you live in it? And she said
Speaker 1: I live in India? It's really yeah. Yeah. And what
Speaker 1: is your family? I'm the daughters of a king, said
Speaker 1: mh in India. He said, okay, how old are you?
Speaker 1: And I can I can't remember it, but still teenages basically,
Speaker 1: you know, he's still teenages. And and this man asked
Speaker 1: me are you are you married it? No, I'm still
Speaker 1: I'm still a teenager seventeen years and again do you
Speaker 1: want to get married? Oh? Yes, I said, And that's
Speaker 1: what she said. And you do you like arian and
Speaker 1: she said yes, I like my U. This is a
Speaker 1: very you know. I I just sort of really stunned,
Speaker 1: you know, just you're hearing these answers come out of
Speaker 1: your own mouth. That's right. Just just like just just
Speaker 1: like this, just like I'm talking to you, I'm using it,
Speaker 1: but you know it's not you, but it's you. You're
Speaker 1: not I know, I'm using you know, like right at
Speaker 1: this moment, I'm using a headset. Nobody says this, says
Speaker 1: I'm talking to someone, but I'm talking because I hear
Speaker 1: you talking through much. It's a sort of a similar sponcept.
Speaker 1: You know, I hear them talking, I know it is
Speaker 1: not me, right right, and so basically they I give
Speaker 1: myself to amplify their voice kind of concept. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, okay, I like him. Okay, do you
Speaker 1: want to marry here? You know why not? I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, I make it a very very casual and
Speaker 1: and this this man said, I would that my spiritual guru.
Speaker 1: He staid, uh, he married that. But and you know what,
Speaker 1: what's very surprising to hear the answer, And he said
Speaker 1: we're Muslim his for wife. No, And I know, I
Speaker 1: just laughing, you know, and I just laughing and and said, okay,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, no, no, no, he doesn't he doesn't want
Speaker 1: you to get Okay, you can. You can, you can
Speaker 1: just go okay, So this was an opportunity you had
Speaker 1: and you didn't take. There are people apparently who have
Speaker 1: taken the opportunity to say, yeah, I'm going to establish
Speaker 1: a relationship with the gin, a marriage or romantic relationship.
Speaker 1: Have you ever met somebody like that? Do you know
Speaker 1: anybody like that? Uh? Well, I I read quite a
Speaker 1: lot of people who hasn't married Jean, but I never
Speaker 1: encounter with someone that I knew. Would you recommend tnue
Speaker 1: for those who are single and looking at what actually
Speaker 1: it may happen? You know why? Because um, it is
Speaker 1: a versus in the court on that said, all you
Speaker 1: mankind married your own kind, so meaning there's a possibility
Speaker 1: that they can marry the under kind, right right, right,
Speaker 1: But that is so true. Yeah, yeah, married your own kind,
Speaker 1: especially otherwise if they cannot do that, just you know,
Speaker 1: God wouldn't have to tell you that, Yeah, exactly. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so because some people may do it. And then in Indonesia,
Speaker 1: uh yeah, I heard quite a lot of people who
Speaker 1: you know who has a different kind of Yeah, you
Speaker 1: can look it up on the internet too. There are
Speaker 1: people who claim it another thing. Why why it's sort
Speaker 1: of confirm this theory because my this is my own sibling,
Speaker 1: my own sister. Yeah, at the time, she was still
Speaker 1: married to her husband, and there's excellently Oh well, at
Speaker 1: that time, he thought it was her husband came to
Speaker 1: the room, and she knows that her husband's still out there. Um, okay,
Speaker 1: I have chills again. What that's that's that's that's what
Speaker 1: you know. So somebody came into her bedroom and it
Speaker 1: looked like her husband, but she knew her husband. And
Speaker 1: then what happened, Well, because she knew, of course, you know,
Speaker 1: she she automatically sort of we call it, uh, what
Speaker 1: is it? This must be a gene immitate. Yeah, because
Speaker 1: they can't many feel then shift into different you know,
Speaker 1: different shape, they wont being being an energy. So yeah,
Speaker 1: she was able to get rid of it. Oh yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: because she knows. Yeah, yeah, so ANSA at the I
Speaker 1: really hope that we can have another another conversation, maybe
Speaker 1: in a few months, and have you guys back on
Speaker 1: because I have so many more questions and I bet
Speaker 1: you our listeners when we have questions. So if you
Speaker 1: guys are open to it, would you guys be willing
Speaker 1: to come back for another chat? Later, I think that
Speaker 1: this than either. So here we have more stories than
Speaker 1: I will. But I totally get it. But Lisa, at
Speaker 1: the beginning, at the top of our interview, you did
Speaker 1: say you had a story to share, didn't you say that? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Oh my go to story. Yeah, let's hear the go
Speaker 1: to story. Um. Well, actually Dad was there when this happened,
Speaker 1: So maybe that's why it happened, because he was there,
Speaker 1: because nothing's ever happened and I'm by myself. Um, but
Speaker 1: this is in my parents house when we just moved in.
Speaker 1: I think we'd been in there maybe for about a
Speaker 1: week or so, and Dad and I were just sitting
Speaker 1: in the living room watching TV one night, maybe around
Speaker 1: nine or nine thirty, and it was just the two
Speaker 1: of us in the living room and we have this
Speaker 1: glass these glass doors in the living room that lead
Speaker 1: out to the backyard. Um, so you can see outside.
Speaker 1: We had the light on, the blinds were still up
Speaker 1: so you could still see outside that there was nothing there,
Speaker 1: no one there. And just all of a sudden, the
Speaker 1: doors started shaking like someone was trying to open the
Speaker 1: door but couldn't because it was locked. And this went
Speaker 1: on and there wasn't an earthquake happening. No, no, because
Speaker 1: in Indonesia we get earthquakes, um, and you know what
Speaker 1: they feel like, the you feel, you feel the earth move,
Speaker 1: you feel whatever you're sitting on or lying on move.
Speaker 1: This was we were just sitting there and it was
Speaker 1: just the sound and the movement of the doors shaking.
Speaker 1: And both of you saw this happen. And yeah, we
Speaker 1: both heard it because it was quite. It was loud.
Speaker 1: It wasn't just like a little rattling. It was like
Speaker 1: a proper like you know, let me in, that kind
Speaker 1: of shaking of a door. And this is like the
Speaker 1: first and only thing that's ever happened to me that's
Speaker 1: related to this. And I just kind of looked at it,
Speaker 1: and I looked at Dad, waiting for him to give
Speaker 1: an explanation. He didn't. He was just like whatever. And
Speaker 1: I was like, I can't even remember what I said.
Speaker 1: If I said what was that? I think I probably
Speaker 1: said what was that? And then just got creeped out. Um.
Speaker 1: And then this, this is related to something about in
Speaker 1: Indonesia when you when you go into new spaces, um,
Speaker 1: places that are unfamiliar that you sort of then the
Speaker 1: different the belief is different. Depending on if you're religious
Speaker 1: or not. If if you're not religious, you might think
Speaker 1: you're asking permission from the being or the gin too
Speaker 1: passed by, or to live there. If you're a Muslim,
Speaker 1: you might be just sort of not asking permission, but
Speaker 1: rather introducing yourself and say, hey, I live here now,
Speaker 1: and let's sort of get along kind of thing. So
Speaker 1: my interpretation is that because we were newly moved in,
Speaker 1: and maybe we hadn't no one had said hi, were
Speaker 1: then you the new people who live in this house,
Speaker 1: You're going to have to live with us. Yeah, the
Speaker 1: gene was kind of like, hey, I'm here, can you
Speaker 1: sort of introduce yourself or something. I don't know, maybe
Speaker 1: it was something like that, but maybe Dad we've talked
Speaker 1: about this, but I've never actually asked Dad what his
Speaker 1: interpretation of that event was, or if you notice anything,
Speaker 1: do you remember that night? Because uh, it always happened
Speaker 1: to a new person who came to our house, because
Speaker 1: it because one once we were the whole family went
Speaker 1: to Australia. So I asked the uh, uh, what you
Speaker 1: call it? A person that I know to stay there
Speaker 1: in the house to look after a while in Australia.
Speaker 1: So that's actually what happened to him. He said, I
Speaker 1: was I was sleeping in, you know, in in the
Speaker 1: TV room. You know, it was suddenly it's just like
Speaker 1: someone started to get in, you know, shaking the glass door,
Speaker 1: and I was so scared? Is it? So I said, well,
Speaker 1: you know, because because you were new. They answered, maybe
Speaker 1: maybe they can't take it. Didn't really know who you are,
Speaker 1: so try to get you it. Maybe maybe the guardian
Speaker 1: Jim thought, this person is like trespassing exactly. Wow. Well, um,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to wrap up, but I want to
Speaker 1: ask you one last question. Um, and again, please please,
Speaker 1: I would love to have you guys back on because
Speaker 1: especially I have so many more I only hear all
Speaker 1: your stories. But let me see this. Where does your
Speaker 1: very first episode for Arcapela Ghost was with your father
Speaker 1: talking about gin and I and I saw that you
Speaker 1: you said an email to me that that was he
Speaker 1: had suggested that topic. And now I understand why because
Speaker 1: he knows all about it. What other things are you like?
Speaker 1: What other kinds of entities? Because you know, I happen
Speaker 1: to be I happen to be that that like raised
Speaker 1: in a way, it's like anything unexplained Oh, it's this
Speaker 1: old gin, right, it's a oldgin. So but what what
Speaker 1: other kind of beliefs and things are gonna be talking
Speaker 1: about in future episodes? Um? So Yeah, like as as
Speaker 1: a Muslim, yeah, you believe all these different manifestations or
Speaker 1: basically lead back to Gin. But if if you're not
Speaker 1: a Muslim, or if you maybe not a completely believing
Speaker 1: or um practicing one, you think that they're all separate things.
Speaker 1: So um for example, like episode two is um I
Speaker 1: call it a legend, but some people also call her
Speaker 1: a gin queen. Her name is near Kid and she's
Speaker 1: called the Queen of the South Sea, and she's supposedly
Speaker 1: the queen of a kingdom in um the Sudden Sea
Speaker 1: of Java. Uh and yeah there's um one of amazing
Speaker 1: is that? Is that a so too? That's episode two? Okay,
Speaker 1: she's very interesting. Um. And then we've got episode three
Speaker 1: talking about actual possessions, which is also another thing that's
Speaker 1: very common in Indonesia. You can talk about someone being
Speaker 1: possessed as casually as someone getting a new job. For example,
Speaker 1: Like people will ask questions, but they won't be very
Speaker 1: surprised if you tell someone that you know they know
Speaker 1: someone who was possessed. Um. Yeah, there's a whole bunch
Speaker 1: of other different beings and shapes. There's one of the
Speaker 1: episodes that we're going to do. I'm going to talk
Speaker 1: about the Big Three, which is the most famous or
Speaker 1: most well known of Indonesia's supernatural beings. Um. And one
Speaker 1: is aunt, which is the typical Asian black, long hair,
Speaker 1: white dress, that kind of image, um, like the wronged
Speaker 1: woman kind of thing. And then yeah, and then one
Speaker 1: is a Potchong, which you might be familiar with when
Speaker 1: I tell you, But basically a pot young is in
Speaker 1: the form of when a Muslim is buried, how they're
Speaker 1: wrapped in the white often then you have the ties
Speaker 1: around I think the neck and the feet and the
Speaker 1: waist and something like that. That's that's an actual being
Speaker 1: that's quite well known. It appears like that. It appears
Speaker 1: like that, and it's it's quite funny because because it's
Speaker 1: still tied up, they can only get around by jumping,
Speaker 1: so it's not very bad. Takes away to terrifying a
Speaker 1: little bit. And then the last one of the Big
Speaker 1: Three is um. This one actually could be related quite
Speaker 1: well to Gin. This one's called a Thuyo. It's the
Speaker 1: in the in the form of like a little a
Speaker 1: little kid that's baled, and they can be um. They
Speaker 1: can be sort of I guess, looked after like a pet,
Speaker 1: and they do your bidding. And usually they're used by
Speaker 1: people called dukun, which is like a shaman or a
Speaker 1: black magic practitioner. They own Duo, they own Thuyo sorry,
Speaker 1: these little beings, and they can be told to go
Speaker 1: to people's houses and steal money for them. It's something bubble.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like, yeah, like a little bit um.
Speaker 1: I think my my sister talks about a story where
Speaker 1: she sort of said, because this is my sister, she
Speaker 1: saw something when she was younger, and we think maybe
Speaker 1: she saw it though you and she said it looked
Speaker 1: like a like Dobby from Harry Potter. There you go. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but um yeah, so if you sort of because there
Speaker 1: are these gin's that you can, like you talked about before,
Speaker 1: the transactional idea of if you ask for something from
Speaker 1: a gin, that gin will want something back to you.
Speaker 1: So the idea with these tool there the shape of
Speaker 1: a little kid um, you actually have to like give
Speaker 1: them toys and give them food. And apparently there's one
Speaker 1: belief where you have to breastfeed them, which is really gross.
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. Yeah, but then they will go to
Speaker 1: people's houses and steal money and jewelry and stuff for you.
Speaker 1: So I might have more questions about the breastfitting one. Um,
Speaker 1: but I also go back to that, don't you have
Speaker 1: to be lactating to do? Okay? Well, anyway, I'm getting
Speaker 1: too technical here. Um, well so you okay, So where
Speaker 1: can listeners find your podcast? I must I think it's
Speaker 1: on most of most of the most apps. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: It's definitely on iTunes and Google Spotify, Um, it's And
Speaker 1: then you can just listen straight on out and our website,
Speaker 1: which is a capella ghosts with an S at the
Speaker 1: end dot com. I hope you enjoyed that conversation as
Speaker 1: much as I did. Now there are as many people
Speaker 1: in the world with Jin stories as there are gin,
Speaker 1: so if you have one you'd like to share, make
Speaker 1: sure to email it to me at the Hidden Gin
Speaker 1: at gmail dot com. That's the Hidden Gin. Th H
Speaker 1: E H I D D N d J I n
Speaker 1: N at gmail dot com. And until next time, remember
Speaker 1: we are not alone. The Hidden Gin is a production
Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio and Grimm and mild from Aaron Mankey.
Speaker 1: The podcast is written and hosted by Robbia Chaudre and
Speaker 1: produced by Miranda Hawkins and Trevor Young, with executive producers
Speaker 1: Aaron Mankey, Alex Williams, and Matt Frederick. Our theme song
Speaker 1: was created by Patrick Quartets. For more podcasts from I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.