1 00:00:02,320 --> 00:00:05,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to The Hidden Gin, a production of I Heart 2 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 1: Radio and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Manky. Hi, and 3 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:34,199 Speaker 1: welcome to this very special bonus series of The Hidden Gin. 4 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:38,239 Speaker 1: The interviews in these episodes, you'll hear me talk to 5 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:41,559 Speaker 1: people from all walks of life who have had GIN experiences, 6 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:44,879 Speaker 1: are drawn through the stories of Gin and draw lessons 7 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:49,560 Speaker 1: from these stories. You'll hear from artists, scholars, writers, journalists, 8 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 1: and gin exorcists, and even from me as I discuss 9 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 1: how and why this series came about in a very 10 00:00:55,920 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 1: personal conversation with my husband. Thanks for listening and enjoy 11 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 1: this week. I am excited to bring to you an 12 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 1: interview with not just one, but two people, a father 13 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:14,119 Speaker 1: and daughter team that I discovered when I came upon 14 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:17,959 Speaker 1: a podcast called Archipela Ghosts. First of all, it's such 15 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:19,840 Speaker 1: a clever name, and the reason I discovered it was 16 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 1: because they actually were listening to The Hidden Gin and 17 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 1: they tweeted at us, and I was enthralled, and so 18 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:27,959 Speaker 1: I took a listen, and believe it or not, they 19 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 1: talked about Jin the very first episode. One of the 20 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 1: hosts in that episode was interviewing her own father, Ariento, 21 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:39,400 Speaker 1: an amazing man who had an entire lifetime of experience 22 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 1: with gin. Now, both Anissa and of course her father Ayento, 23 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 1: are from Indonesia and so their experience with this entity 24 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 1: is culturally different than mine. But I was fascinated and 25 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 1: hoped and I said, listen, I would love to talk 26 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 1: to you guys more. I want to learn more from Arienta. 27 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 1: So let me tell you a little bit about Anissa 28 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 1: and Ariento. Anissa grew up in Australia and Indonesia. She 29 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 1: studied arts at the University in Sydney, and she worked 30 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 1: in various positions actually in the film industry for about 31 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:11,240 Speaker 1: fifteen years, including doing exhibition and distribution. Last year she 32 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 1: moved the United States. She lives near Philly right now. 33 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 1: She loves all things spooky, is an avid reader of 34 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 1: historical fiction, and of course now the co host of 35 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 1: Archipela Ghosts, a very cool podcast. Now. Her father, Aranto, 36 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 1: is sixty seven years old. He was born in East 37 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 1: Java and Indonesia. He had moved to Australia after marrying 38 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:33,920 Speaker 1: an Australian woman, where they lived for many years. And 39 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:36,679 Speaker 1: he comes from a really large family, eight or nine siblings. 40 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 1: Now he studied civil engineering, but then when he came 41 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 1: back to Indonesia from Australia, he actually started his own 42 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 1: advertising agency. He also plays music's very Fond Jazz and 43 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:50,519 Speaker 1: is an art director by skill. Now, it would seem 44 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:52,919 Speaker 1: that none of these things kind of line up with 45 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: what you're about to hear in terms of his experience 46 00:02:56,400 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 1: and abilities with the supernatural, but prepare to be amazed. Um. 47 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:05,639 Speaker 1: First of all, I want our listeners to know it's 48 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:07,520 Speaker 1: like ten pm at night. Anissa and I are on 49 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 1: the East Coast in the United States, but Arianta is 50 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:12,320 Speaker 1: all the way across the globe in where are you 51 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:17,800 Speaker 1: right now? And Jakarta, Jakarta and Indonesia. Thank you so much, 52 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for organ for Agreen to come on. 53 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 1: It's a weekend, so it's early in the morning for you. 54 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 1: It's great. UM. So I told our listeners a little 55 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 1: bit about you guys before we jumped on the call 56 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:32,639 Speaker 1: and UM, but I first want to actually start off 57 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 1: by Anissa, how I kind of discovered you and your show, 58 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 1: and I want you to tell us a little bit 59 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 1: about um with you, a little bit of your personal 60 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 1: background and then how you came to do this podcast. 61 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 1: About like Indonesian ghosts basically. Okay, So, um, I've had 62 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 1: this podcast called a Cappella Guys, and it's still very 63 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 1: very new. It's only like, I think, two episodes out now. 64 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 1: But it came about from one day I was speaking 65 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 1: with my husband and my brother. I asked him he 66 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 1: had this story which is in his episode, about when 67 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 1: he sort of had an encounter possibly with the supernatural 68 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 1: being um A Gin possibly, and UM I sort of 69 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 1: thought to myself, this, this is like really fun, and 70 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 1: I think a lot of people don't know about this 71 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:24,919 Speaker 1: kind of stuff from Indonesia, um, the crazy different beings 72 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:29,160 Speaker 1: and mystical things that that are that are around, and 73 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 1: Indonesia itself as a country I think is not maybe 74 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 1: quite as known around the world as well. So Um, 75 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 1: I come from a film industry background. Most of my 76 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:43,480 Speaker 1: working life has been in the film industry, so I've 77 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 1: always been really attracted to and interested in just telling 78 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:52,719 Speaker 1: stories in general, and um experiencing different kinds of um 79 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 1: like because I really love documentaries, different kinds of people's 80 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:57,280 Speaker 1: backgrounds and all that kind of stuff. So I thought 81 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 1: be really like, I obviously can't make going to into 82 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:03,360 Speaker 1: Indonesia at the moment because we're all on sort of 83 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 1: not lockdown really, but we're not allowed to leave the country. 84 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:08,720 Speaker 1: But that would have been great. But so I thought 85 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:11,600 Speaker 1: instead of making like a little documentary series, I could 86 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:14,480 Speaker 1: do a podcast instead. Um, and so is this your 87 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 1: first podcast? The first time podcasting? Um? A few years ago. 88 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 1: I did have one that didn't last very long. It 89 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:23,920 Speaker 1: was with a friend of mine from Australia. Was a 90 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:28,279 Speaker 1: horror film podcast, so we'd watch horror seasons. Like a 91 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 1: trend here. It's a little bit of a trend, kind 92 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 1: of like a little ghostie kind of trend. So yeah, 93 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:36,840 Speaker 1: well let me ask you so and so, you clearly 94 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:39,160 Speaker 1: have kind of a creative streak and you'd like to 95 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:40,920 Speaker 1: tell stories. What about you do have a bit of 96 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:43,679 Speaker 1: a creative background as as your father? Is she getting 97 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 1: this from you? Well? I usually I'm basically right right 98 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:55,280 Speaker 1: hand brain for somewhere. I always been a in secreative 99 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:58,279 Speaker 1: person since I was you know, as long as I remember, 100 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 1: you know, But I don't know. Somehow I ended up 101 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 1: started the civil engineering and only to find out that, 102 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 1: you know, it doesn't really suit me. So I went 103 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 1: to Australia basically just for your adventuring and ended up 104 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:21,200 Speaker 1: studies in advertising and design. So you're from civil engineering 105 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:23,840 Speaker 1: to advertise it, so that means like a creative field. Really, 106 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 1: that's right. Yeah, so since then I are working at 107 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 1: you in an advertising industry. Um, after sixteen years in Australia, 108 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:39,160 Speaker 1: as I decided to come back to Indonesia because at 109 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 1: the time, you know, advertising was were really booming here. 110 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 1: So I came to Indonesia and it started my uh 111 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:53,279 Speaker 1: own agency and yeah, so basically I'm a creative person myself. Yeah. 112 00:06:53,800 --> 00:07:00,800 Speaker 1: And you played jazz, yes, I played yes, right, So 113 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 1: so yeah, but I don't hear in any of your 114 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:08,279 Speaker 1: backgrounds like this theme that connects to like the supernatural 115 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 1: or the paranormal or any of that. Is that just 116 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 1: something like it is something like you kind of grew 117 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 1: up with a nissa. Are these like stories you told 118 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 1: your daughter? Areent? Like? How? Why? Why is this family 119 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 1: interested in this? Did you sit around the dinner table 120 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 1: and talk about this? Actually it's not. It's quite right, 121 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 1: you know, because we've been growing up with this kind 122 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 1: of you know, we don't we don't really call it supernatural, 123 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 1: which as a young young kid, we know we know 124 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 1: what there is uh, what you call that a ghost? 125 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 1: So basically we grow grow up with this kind of thinking. 126 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 1: Uh not until we not until we've grown grown up 127 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 1: and learns about a little bit about religions and understood 128 00:07:55,520 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 1: that this entity called gene right, So uh in Indonesia, 129 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 1: this kind of thing is just like maybe similar in 130 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 1: other Muslim country. It's just like part of daily daily things. 131 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 1: You know, we talked about our experience. Oh you know 132 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 1: last night, this is what happened, and what happened. Oh yeah, 133 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 1: and you have differences and yeah, I said the same thing. 134 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 1: So it just becomes like a daily things, you know, 135 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 1: just like part of a you know, like everyday life, 136 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 1: part of everyday, everyday life exactly. Know, so we do 137 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 1: we never really sort of surprise, but what's happening with 138 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:40,440 Speaker 1: other people because oh yeah, yeah, I sum it is 139 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 1: the same thing and it's sort of things you know. 140 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 1: So so that's interesting. You know. Um, in my family, 141 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:49,840 Speaker 1: you know I come from a Muslim family, they are 142 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 1: how do I say this? My family was not like 143 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:58,199 Speaker 1: super um spiritual. We never talked about I wanted to 144 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 1: as a kid, we never did. And I would just 145 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 1: like crave it from other families, you know, like in 146 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 1: other families that are more like kind of sufie and 147 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 1: more mystical families, more they practice the religion and more 148 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 1: aceteche of fashion. But it sounds like like this was 149 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 1: so much part of the kind of the culture, the 150 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:16,839 Speaker 1: in an age of culture that wasn't considered something that 151 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:20,080 Speaker 1: people would look at and think, well, that's kind of weird. Um, 152 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 1: like this is this kind of an accepted reality. Is 153 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 1: that what it was like for you growing up on Issa? Yeah, 154 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 1: I think that's pretty spot on actually, because it is 155 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 1: so this is something I think I talk about a 156 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 1: lot when in the podcast, but also when I explained 157 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 1: to people is it is so much a part of 158 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:37,240 Speaker 1: everyday life that it's not odd and it's not something 159 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:39,839 Speaker 1: we think of mentioning. Oh, by the way, there are 160 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 1: these there are a lot of these supernatural stories or 161 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 1: mystical beings around. It's just you know, people have jobs, 162 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 1: people go to school, and this kind of stuff is 163 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 1: part of everyday life. So it's not really always something 164 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 1: that you think to mention or to single out specifically. 165 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 1: In a sense, it's just part of the the blanket 166 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 1: of life in Indonesia. I guess now the interesting thing 167 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 1: to me, And I think I heard you speak about 168 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 1: this a bit in the episode I heard um with 169 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:11,240 Speaker 1: Orianda on it is that this is not it's not 170 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 1: really limited to like Indonesian Muslims. I mean, Indonesia is 171 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 1: a diverse country with there are other religious populations there, 172 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 1: and so is this more cultural that it is religious? 173 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:26,160 Speaker 1: Would you? Would you guys say yeah, definitely, yeah, because 174 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 1: um Dad might know more about this sort of than 175 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 1: I do, especially has lived there longer. But Um, the 176 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 1: history of Indonesia was there was like the animism, dynamism, 177 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:41,839 Speaker 1: um beliefs before any religions came, and that already it 178 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:45,200 Speaker 1: was quite spiritual. But then Hinduism came, Buddhism came, then 179 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 1: Islam came, but there was always that belief in a 180 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 1: super spiritual and a supernatural before any religion. So I 181 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 1: think that's why all Indonesians, regardless of their beliefs. Do 182 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:57,960 Speaker 1: you believe in some form of this kind of stuff? 183 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 1: I mean that kind of that's pretty yeah. Okay, can 184 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 1: you expand on that a bit because what's interesting to 185 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 1: me about Okay again, my family from Bakas is a 186 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 1: majority of Muslim Sunni Muslim country, very very tiny populations 187 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:13,720 Speaker 1: of Hindus and Christians and Seeks very tiny populations. And 188 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 1: there is absolutely i would say, other than some cultural 189 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 1: practices like that the food you eat or the way 190 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 1: you dress, there's like zero, i would say, almost zero 191 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 1: overlap with a lot of the spiritual beliefs. So can 192 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 1: you add, can you talk to me a little bit 193 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:30,839 Speaker 1: about how that how that exists Indonesia because these are 194 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:34,680 Speaker 1: very different religious traditions Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, They're very very 195 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 1: different religions. Yeah. Well, bas basically because um, when Islam 196 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:48,560 Speaker 1: came to Indonesia, Uh, they they you know, they they 197 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 1: found a little bit of what you call that rejection 198 00:11:54,880 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 1: because of the cultures at the time, basically Hinduism and 199 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:05,080 Speaker 1: Buddhism and Buddhism. So they found a way how to 200 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:11,560 Speaker 1: to make the people accept Islam by a little bit 201 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 1: combining between both. Oh okay, there was some compromise there 202 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 1: that they said exactly, there's some compromised For example, like 203 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:25,960 Speaker 1: Hinduism they do all of a ritual of offering and 204 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 1: sort of stuff, while and Muslim we don't have that 205 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:33,839 Speaker 1: sort of thing. So how they do it and they 206 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:36,839 Speaker 1: just allowed to do the thing but just change slightly 207 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 1: with the intention of for God instead of for you know, 208 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 1: the Kindu is God sort of thing. So that sort 209 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 1: so this sort of compromise uh that that to you know, 210 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 1: to to be lieve just to get the islams uh 211 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 1: accepted by the people at that time. And this goes 212 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 1: in the you know, for a long says and until 213 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 1: finally people are really understood about Islam and accepted as 214 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:12,359 Speaker 1: you know, Islam itself without being what you got influenced 215 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:16,080 Speaker 1: by other beliefs sort of thing. Though still people who 216 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 1: are practicing this, you know, there's a jewal beliefs sort 217 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 1: of thing Indonesia they called a Muslim, but then they're 218 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 1: still practicing a little bit about Hinduism or Buddhism. They 219 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:32,840 Speaker 1: hold on to like some of the the old ways 220 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:36,680 Speaker 1: hard that's exactly, yeah, exactly that You should tell Robbie 221 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 1: about Jan. Yeah, who was Jan or what for exam? Yeah, 222 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:49,200 Speaker 1: for example, Jaw sort of like a spiritual belief you know, 223 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 1: basically they are Muslim, but they're practicing some of the 224 00:13:54,480 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 1: Hindu's rituals, you know, being being ja Java before Islam 225 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 1: came to Indonesia. Basically are were Hindu's kingdoms, so they 226 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 1: pretty pretty strong tradition on Hindu's ritual. So when Islam came, 227 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 1: there were about nine and nine person we call it 228 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:25,600 Speaker 1: nine Suffies who came to Java and try to spread Islam. 229 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 1: And they use lots of different way to attract people 230 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 1: to Muslim And for example, in Java they even included Gamalan. 231 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 1: Gamalan is a musical Javanese musical, uh, you know, like 232 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 1: an but based on the Hindu's tradition something. So so 233 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 1: they're kind of like mix it so you will find 234 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:55,640 Speaker 1: a little bit of Islamic for example, reciting with that 235 00:14:55,880 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 1: kind of tone of intuison. Uh, you know, that's interesting, 236 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 1: a toy of voice sort of thing. So yeah, the 237 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 1: Sufis have always been the most flexible even pretty flexible 238 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 1: in this in the subcontinent until yeah, I get that 239 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 1: that's really interesting. Yes, So so that's u uh even 240 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 1: even and that goes from generation into generations, you know, 241 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 1: as a Javanese especially like I came from Madura, so 242 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 1: we really don't have that sort of thing, you know, 243 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 1: because it's sort of likely completely different different islands from Java, 244 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 1: even though it's pretty close. So h even the Saltan 245 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 1: in Java. In Java we called it are still practicing 246 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:45,040 Speaker 1: this sort of you know, you know, what would you 247 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 1: call it views in using concept of belief. You know, 248 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 1: though they call themselves as somethms a Muslim uh craton 249 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:57,040 Speaker 1: or or what if the kingdom or whatever it is 250 00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 1: you may call it, but it's always be uh some 251 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:09,840 Speaker 1: sort of Hindus influence included me in their daily activities. Okay, 252 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 1: so I want to circle back to that influence, but 253 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 1: first before we specifically especially on like the belief in 254 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 1: supernatural and gin I mean most specifically, since that's what 255 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:22,040 Speaker 1: this podcast is about, but actually want to pivot to 256 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 1: you for a little bit. And he said, don't want 257 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 1: to ask you this. So somebody who kind of grew 258 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 1: up in a family and a culture that was like, yeah, 259 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 1: this is just a thing. It's like, oh okay, yeah, 260 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 1: I think I saw somebody in my room last night, 261 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 1: or maybe I saw a vision. Like it's just a 262 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 1: part of your reality, that's not You don't have to 263 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 1: question your sanity, you don't have to question whether it's 264 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 1: real or not. But you you didn't grow up in 265 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 1: Indonesia the entire time, right, you were also raised in Australia. Correct, Yeah, 266 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:48,080 Speaker 1: that's right. So how did did that change for you? Then? 267 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 1: Like then growing up in suddenly a culture that was 268 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:53,160 Speaker 1: like wait, what are you talking about? I mean, did 269 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:55,720 Speaker 1: you start to question your own kind of belief system? 270 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 1: So I grew up in Australia until I was um, 271 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:01,200 Speaker 1: I think what was seven eight? Now I was eight 272 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 1: when we moved, So I didn't really have too much 273 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:06,960 Speaker 1: of a concept of things around me. I guess, um, 274 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:10,119 Speaker 1: what what's the difference between Australia and Indonesia? Was just 275 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:13,120 Speaker 1: a different location where I was living. Um, So most 276 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 1: of my growing up of like being actually aware of 277 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 1: my surroundings and learning things, I think was mostly in 278 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:22,280 Speaker 1: Indonesia because that was from around eight to eighteen UM. 279 00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 1: And then moved to Australia for university. So that's that's 280 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 1: when I realized the difference. How in Indonesia was very 281 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:34,359 Speaker 1: common every every day to sort of talk about gin 282 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:39,119 Speaker 1: and like how, um, there's this concept of pennunga, which 283 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 1: is um sort of we kind of have quite a 284 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:46,080 Speaker 1: quite a lot of words that all are kind of interchangeable. 285 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:49,479 Speaker 1: For basically, what is gin or a spiritual being? Um? 286 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:52,880 Speaker 1: But the panungu is more of the idea of of 287 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:55,679 Speaker 1: being that inhabits a place. So for example, like in 288 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 1: our house, Um, in my parents house, rather, there's apparent 289 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:03,640 Speaker 1: only these jin who live there, and they've sort of 290 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 1: what is it, dad, there's like one in every room 291 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:09,960 Speaker 1: or something where they and they've they've helped us in 292 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:12,280 Speaker 1: the past, like this was in sort of our episode zero, 293 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 1: like they apparently helped us when our house got robbed 294 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:16,880 Speaker 1: in all this kind of stuff. Oh my god, Okay, 295 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 1: we don't listeners have to hear this story. You're saying, 296 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:22,399 Speaker 1: that's a matter of factly, how long have you been 297 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:29,880 Speaker 1: in that house with this jin? By the way, are years? 298 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 1: So is that the house you grew up in? That 299 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 1: Anita half of it? Yeah, we most of the time 300 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:37,639 Speaker 1: that I was there was in that house. Yet and 301 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:40,160 Speaker 1: when you were there, you were aware that they were 302 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 1: just there. I didn't like because I'm not sensitive towards 303 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:46,360 Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. So I've never I've never actually 304 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 1: really seen anything or there's like the one story that 305 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:53,160 Speaker 1: I have that is, um, possibly when I experienced something, 306 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 1: but I've never actually seen or heard or anything like that. Um, 307 00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:00,399 Speaker 1: So to me, it's still something that's fairly in visible, 308 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:04,920 Speaker 1: that's fairly Um, theoretical in a sense because I've never 309 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:07,200 Speaker 1: really had that experience that a lot of people had, 310 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:09,440 Speaker 1: like Dad has had, that just makes you go, really, 311 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:12,440 Speaker 1: yet a hundred there there are these things, and I've 312 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:15,879 Speaker 1: experienced a connection with them. I haven't had that, So 313 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,920 Speaker 1: to me, there's still just something that's like, oh, yeah, 314 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 1: they're they're supposed to be around, but I've never experienced it, 315 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 1: so it's not an issue for me, not a problem. 316 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:27,640 Speaker 1: I do believe that. I mean, there are people who 317 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:32,439 Speaker 1: have just either heightened sensibility or sensitivity or or some 318 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:35,840 Speaker 1: kind of opening that others don't. And I'm like you 319 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 1: and he so I'm I'm kind of like I'm waiting 320 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: to or see it, but it's not happening. But you know, 321 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:45,400 Speaker 1: my husband warns me and says, don't don't tempt them, 322 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: but don't tempt fate. Um, how did you How did 323 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 1: you discover that there are were gin in every room 324 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:53,960 Speaker 1: of that house? Were they just like part of your 325 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 1: you know, either a different generators. So they're the gin 326 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 1: that kind of inhabited space and attached themselves to a place, 327 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:01,800 Speaker 1: and then they're genter that attached themselves to people and 328 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:04,880 Speaker 1: will follow them around like from place to place, house 329 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:07,640 Speaker 1: to house. Can you tell us a little bit about 330 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:11,159 Speaker 1: this gender and how you discover the exist? Well, First, 331 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:15,560 Speaker 1: first of all, there there um as an Indonesian. We 332 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 1: all believe that, uh, they are everywhere, the jeans everywhere, 333 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:22,760 Speaker 1: even in our own house. We just sort of like 334 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 1: a given, you know, we leave side by side with them. Uh. 335 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 1: So that make it easier for us to just believe, Okay, 336 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 1: there's a gin in this room, or the gene in 337 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:37,440 Speaker 1: the other room, or the gens in the garden, that 338 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 1: sort of thing. But not until when I really actually, um, 339 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:46,199 Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe you can call it opening up 340 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:51,399 Speaker 1: my channel towards something that's more sensitive. Then I can 341 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:57,320 Speaker 1: sort of detect their being. You know though I actually 342 00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 1: that's happened, so it's not my intention. But it's more 343 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:09,359 Speaker 1: like because once I joined this uh this what you 344 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:11,920 Speaker 1: call it. It's not the martial art. It's more like 345 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:17,440 Speaker 1: a healthy uh what you call a crop some sort 346 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:23,200 Speaker 1: to develop your inner power for the purpose of you know, 347 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:28,200 Speaker 1: being more healthy and you know, can do things more 348 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:31,359 Speaker 1: that sort of stuff. Is it like a meditative type 349 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 1: of thing or the mind It's it's sort of a 350 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 1: combination meditation and and breathing exercise and and you know 351 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:47,919 Speaker 1: it's a Muslim also execute too, so it open It 352 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 1: opened up the channel unintentionally maybe because I have that 353 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:57,959 Speaker 1: kind of a natures for that, but not everyone you 354 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:02,160 Speaker 1: know can that have that similar thing. But in my case, 355 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:08,720 Speaker 1: it opened my channels towards some you know, a different 356 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:15,119 Speaker 1: dimension that all this time I knew. Uh so when 357 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:21,720 Speaker 1: I had that Indian nation call it ILM is just 358 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:26,760 Speaker 1: like knowledge knowledge, but this is more like spiritual knowledge 359 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:30,840 Speaker 1: sort of thing. Uh, I didn't know what happened at 360 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:32,960 Speaker 1: that time? How come you know, all of a sudden 361 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:36,360 Speaker 1: I become very sensitive? H So can I ask you 362 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 1: when was your When? When did you first realize something 363 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:43,920 Speaker 1: had changed? What was it? What event? Was it? One 364 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:46,959 Speaker 1: of one of the like if you sort of upgrading, 365 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,920 Speaker 1: you know when I DoD when I did this? Uh? 366 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:56,960 Speaker 1: What you call that uh inner powers exercise is to 367 00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 1: be able to detect some sort of differences of energy. 368 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:09,399 Speaker 1: You know. Uh for example, uh, you sort of blindfolded 369 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:14,240 Speaker 1: and then you you detected different colors has a different 370 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:17,800 Speaker 1: of uh you know, energy that you can really feel 371 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:22,919 Speaker 1: it with your hand, you know, So for example, black 372 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:25,919 Speaker 1: is this kind of string of powers. The red is 373 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,840 Speaker 1: this kind of you know, strange or yellow and so on. 374 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,480 Speaker 1: So in the end you can really read. So you 375 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:34,879 Speaker 1: can have with your with your eyes cloaked, without seeing 376 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 1: the color. You can touch the color and tell what 377 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,280 Speaker 1: color it is from the energy it's emanating that that's right, 378 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:46,840 Speaker 1: just right, just like you have you have a big 379 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 1: alphabet for example, and that's just like a sort of 380 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:53,280 Speaker 1: scann it over it, and you can tell the difference 381 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:56,960 Speaker 1: between white and black and white and black, and you, uh, 382 00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:58,840 Speaker 1: in the end you can sort of figure out what 383 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:02,000 Speaker 1: what what aphabet is is, you know, because it's just 384 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:07,400 Speaker 1: like a scanning. Okay, so so how kind of how 385 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:09,400 Speaker 1: long did they take it? A master this sleight away? 386 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:13,000 Speaker 1: I mean, this must have taken years. It feels like, yeah, 387 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:17,400 Speaker 1: I actually two or three years something, you know, So 388 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:22,880 Speaker 1: so that kind of thing, and and uh, actually it's 389 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 1: pretty simple based on the uh, the positive and negative 390 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 1: energy because they don't mix sort of things. So based 391 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:37,160 Speaker 1: on that concept you can really tell, you know, if 392 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 1: it's a positive or it's a negative energy sort of thing. 393 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 1: So so let's say it started like that. So when I, 394 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:47,960 Speaker 1: you know, sometimes I went somewhere and all of a sudden, 395 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,359 Speaker 1: my whole body is just like being electrocuted, just like 396 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,399 Speaker 1: you know, they're kind of feeling like it's just a 397 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,639 Speaker 1: different sort of thing. So so I think, what's this, 398 00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:00,080 Speaker 1: you know how kind of all of a sudden it 399 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:04,439 Speaker 1: became sort of like uh, you know, uh, you know 400 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:10,760 Speaker 1: in terms, yeah, sort of saying. So, not until I 401 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:14,399 Speaker 1: met this man who actually we call it men with 402 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:21,119 Speaker 1: lots of knowledge. He can uh detect that I have 403 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:25,119 Speaker 1: that kind of power, but I didn't realize at that 404 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,400 Speaker 1: time that I have it. So he said, look, if 405 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:30,639 Speaker 1: you want to, I can really help you and really 406 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:34,000 Speaker 1: opening up, you know, so you know exactly what's happening, 407 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:38,159 Speaker 1: you know, with yourself. So I so I said, okay, 408 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:41,359 Speaker 1: it's gonna affect me, and said no, no, no, I 409 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:44,040 Speaker 1: just want you will give you some sort of additional 410 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:48,159 Speaker 1: you know, additional knowledge of something. Okay, it's fine, I 411 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:52,280 Speaker 1: can live with it. So he did something, Okay, you 412 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:58,080 Speaker 1: just do you just accepting what ever happened to yourself. 413 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:02,960 Speaker 1: Don't try, don't try to fight against that. So he 414 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:05,239 Speaker 1: did something. I didn't know what he did, you know, 415 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:09,000 Speaker 1: because he sort of stood behind me. So I can 416 00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 1: really you know, I can just just let my body 417 00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:15,960 Speaker 1: sort of a feeling following whatever it is that's just 418 00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:21,639 Speaker 1: coming to me. And in the end in sense, he said, okay, 419 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:26,960 Speaker 1: now I'm finished certain that you do have this uh 420 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 1: ability to you know, to to what you called to 421 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:35,760 Speaker 1: feel a different dimension. So if you want to, I 422 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,680 Speaker 1: can I can really give you this knowledge to you 423 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:43,160 Speaker 1: so you can sort of really make maximize utilize said 424 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:48,560 Speaker 1: and you said yes to that. But again again, I 425 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 1: I kind of a person who always cure is about 426 00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:57,240 Speaker 1: new thing, so including this thing you know. Okay, so yeah, 427 00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:02,320 Speaker 1: sure I would like to have the of So you 428 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:06,240 Speaker 1: need to make it short sort of like what give 429 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:07,879 Speaker 1: it to me? I don't know what sort of ritual 430 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,240 Speaker 1: he did. Anyway, he give it to me, and he 431 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:12,920 Speaker 1: also give it the instruction. This is how you sort 432 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:17,320 Speaker 1: of switch it down and off your new knowledge sort 433 00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:21,080 Speaker 1: of you can switch it on and off. Yeah, that's interesting. 434 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 1: Is that? So like if you go somewhere where there 435 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:25,080 Speaker 1: might be a lot of energy or entity, it's like 436 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:27,280 Speaker 1: you just don't want to be disturbed, you switch it off. 437 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:33,239 Speaker 1: That's right. Yeah, So that's so he said. It is 438 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,560 Speaker 1: it is very important how to do it. So whatever 439 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:43,199 Speaker 1: is energy. For example, if you encounter with negative energy, 440 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,359 Speaker 1: they don't overpower you, you know, so you just switch 441 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:49,840 Speaker 1: it off instead of just let the whole thing, you know, 442 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 1: overpower you, and you know how to deal with uh. 443 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:58,600 Speaker 1: So that's that, that's what happened. And he and the 444 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,240 Speaker 1: positive part not the positive you know, maybe the good 445 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:06,840 Speaker 1: thing that I can also help people, you know, with 446 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:10,040 Speaker 1: that knowledge helping in terms of for example, I can 447 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:13,120 Speaker 1: detect you know, sort of Okay, you have this sort 448 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 1: of a problem in your body. I can help you 449 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,440 Speaker 1: to fix it, or maybe I can Is this I'm 450 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:23,440 Speaker 1: going to ask you something and this is gonna be 451 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:26,560 Speaker 1: kind of personal, But is this because you have developed 452 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 1: the ability on your own or is this because you're 453 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,720 Speaker 1: like using the assistance of a gin to help you 454 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:38,720 Speaker 1: do it? Using the six the existence of gene the 455 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:42,560 Speaker 1: assistance like like gen helping you, that Jean's helping me. 456 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,320 Speaker 1: So that's that's what it is? What so wait wait 457 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,400 Speaker 1: wait you know you do have gen helping you? Yes, 458 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:55,640 Speaker 1: oh my god? Really is oh my gosh? Okay, because 459 00:28:56,120 --> 00:29:01,640 Speaker 1: because you know, basically sort of live in one dimension 460 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,560 Speaker 1: and as a human human being, you don't have like 461 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:08,400 Speaker 1: a jewel dimension. But you can't go. It's across the 462 00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:13,800 Speaker 1: dimension by help, by knowledge, vice versa. Like a gene 463 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 1: can come to our dimension if the gene has knowledge 464 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:19,360 Speaker 1: to do it. If not, only just live it in 465 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:25,640 Speaker 1: you know, the real sort of thing. So yes, uh, 466 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:28,240 Speaker 1: And he said, you have a whole lot of questions 467 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 1: now for your father, since you're just about I'm about 468 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:34,680 Speaker 1: to take over Robbie, and just asking in person, please 469 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,800 Speaker 1: Alfrey jumping because I don't have so many okay, yeah 470 00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 1: so so yes, so actually as a Muslim, I don't 471 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 1: have any uh any what what you call uh disagreeing 472 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 1: with this concept because you know, even even in the 473 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 1: in the Koran and the king Solomons have lots of 474 00:29:55,200 --> 00:30:00,160 Speaker 1: army of gens helped him build build his kingdom. So 475 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:03,000 Speaker 1: so so this this man, how I can call it 476 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:05,400 Speaker 1: my mentor whatever, this is the same thing. You know, 477 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:08,160 Speaker 1: you can ask him to do things as King Solomon 478 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:12,920 Speaker 1: asked the Jeans to do. Help him too, well, you 479 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,400 Speaker 1: need to build his kingdom. So as long as you 480 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:18,600 Speaker 1: know how to to to communicate with them and and 481 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:25,120 Speaker 1: you know, uh and looking after your respect over them 482 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 1: and vice versa, so you can sort of work to me. 483 00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:31,120 Speaker 1: Just wow, if I have a lot of questions about 484 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,000 Speaker 1: how you actually work with them, it's only ask you this, 485 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:38,480 Speaker 1: how are you when you recognize that your father has 486 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:43,959 Speaker 1: something going on? UM? I think actually when he first 487 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:49,640 Speaker 1: told me the story of UM, some of the things 488 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:54,160 Speaker 1: that he could do from this UM, this new cause 489 00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:57,680 Speaker 1: that the meditation group that in the energy training that 490 00:30:57,760 --> 00:30:59,480 Speaker 1: he did, because what's it called? Is there a name 491 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:05,840 Speaker 1: for this? Plung by the way for yeah, okay? And 492 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:07,320 Speaker 1: I think he started doing that when I was in 493 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:09,440 Speaker 1: high school, so I was aware sort of of what 494 00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:12,959 Speaker 1: this group did, what they learned, and then he probably 495 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:14,840 Speaker 1: just told us a couple of things like maybe over 496 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:17,160 Speaker 1: dinner or breakfast, like oh we did this or something, 497 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:19,440 Speaker 1: and I was like okay, and just it was just 498 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:23,000 Speaker 1: left at that pretty much. Well, I do know how 499 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,800 Speaker 1: teenagers are. I mean, so, yeah, you can be pretty dismissive. 500 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 1: Parent can be like I, you know, cured cancer, and 501 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:33,560 Speaker 1: the teenagers like all right, that's cool mom, Okay. But 502 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:37,600 Speaker 1: so but have you yourself witnessed your father like work 503 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:41,160 Speaker 1: in this space UM, working with people, or identifying things 504 00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:43,520 Speaker 1: or anything kind of supernatural happening to him, even if 505 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:48,400 Speaker 1: you didn't experience something directly yourself. Did you have seen him? Um? 506 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 1: Maybe the closest thing is so the thing you do 507 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:55,040 Speaker 1: with the healing people is where you put your hands 508 00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:57,960 Speaker 1: on them. It's similar to um. Maybe some of your 509 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,560 Speaker 1: listeners might be more familiar with raiky um, where you 510 00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 1: put your hands yeah on on someone's body and you 511 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,640 Speaker 1: can either feel where they're where they're in pain or 512 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,600 Speaker 1: you can help heal them. That's something Um that the 513 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,280 Speaker 1: people in Satri and No Santada learned how to do. 514 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,360 Speaker 1: So Dad um has done that on me. If I 515 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:18,040 Speaker 1: hadn't known he was using gin at the time, I'd 516 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:21,959 Speaker 1: be like, whoa wait a minute. Um. But my aunt, 517 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:26,280 Speaker 1: whom is Dad's younger sister, she does this as well, 518 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:28,760 Speaker 1: but I don't know it does does something I need 519 00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:30,520 Speaker 1: to do that as well. Is that's similar to what 520 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:35,480 Speaker 1: you did that or is it different? Well, see, sister, 521 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,120 Speaker 1: I think it's so what do you call that? Never 522 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:42,400 Speaker 1: studied anything of what I did, But it's sort of 523 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:46,080 Speaker 1: naturally can be you know, it's held in the debt 524 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:51,040 Speaker 1: ability to help people. M Yeah. So yeah. One time 525 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:53,160 Speaker 1: I just had, like I think, just pains in my 526 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:55,920 Speaker 1: neck and shoulders, which I get a lot and usually 527 00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:59,560 Speaker 1: if you're in Indonesia, excuse me, it's it's pretty easy 528 00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:01,720 Speaker 1: and cheap to go get a message. But one day 529 00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:03,080 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, Dad, do you want to try 530 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:04,560 Speaker 1: to say if he can help? And so he was 531 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:05,920 Speaker 1: like putting his hands. I mean, it's like do you 532 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,440 Speaker 1: feel the hate? And I'm like a little bit. But 533 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:10,240 Speaker 1: then that was that was kind of I was like, 534 00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:15,000 Speaker 1: I think that in terms of healing stuff like that, 535 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:18,000 Speaker 1: I didn't really need the help of genes, you know, 536 00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:21,640 Speaker 1: because my own energies can can do it, you know. 537 00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:27,080 Speaker 1: But for something that is more complicated, maybe I need 538 00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:30,520 Speaker 1: a little bit of help of gene But in terms 539 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:33,240 Speaker 1: of a healing I don't really need it needed because 540 00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:37,000 Speaker 1: you know, actually it's a part of what I learned 541 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:41,080 Speaker 1: in something and Santa I said, utilize my inner energy 542 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:45,360 Speaker 1: to help other people. So basically something that everyone can 543 00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:48,600 Speaker 1: learn to do it, you know, without being in forfeit 544 00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:55,000 Speaker 1: supernatural things. In my case is maybe because I have 545 00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:58,400 Speaker 1: some sort of flair for the supernatural. So it's just 546 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,480 Speaker 1: sort of like a connecting thinking what I learned in 547 00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:06,160 Speaker 1: what my ability to do other stuff. So and he 548 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,520 Speaker 1: to let me, I say, your reaction right now when 549 00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:13,480 Speaker 1: you're joking. I know, um about it. But when you said, well, 550 00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:15,000 Speaker 1: if I had known that you're using a gin or 551 00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:17,040 Speaker 1: maybe not using a gina, is it because like you, 552 00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:19,400 Speaker 1: even having grown up in a culture where it's very 553 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:22,480 Speaker 1: very normalized, there's still like a fear around it, like 554 00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:26,160 Speaker 1: do you not want to get too close to these things? Um? 555 00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:30,160 Speaker 1: I think because I don't have that sensitivity. It's and 556 00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:33,640 Speaker 1: I said before, it was still kind of half theoretical 557 00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:36,799 Speaker 1: to me, like that's not something that's very evident. So 558 00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:39,799 Speaker 1: like I was joking before, like I think if dad 559 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:41,520 Speaker 1: had said I'm going to use a gin to help 560 00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:45,120 Speaker 1: heal you, and I'd be like, okay, do it? Like yeah, 561 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:47,799 Speaker 1: um if it helps me, like you know, get rid 562 00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:50,839 Speaker 1: of my neck pain, and that's great. Um. But in 563 00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:53,640 Speaker 1: terms of other things, like for example, people will say, 564 00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:56,919 Speaker 1: or like what I said before, how they're supposedly gin 565 00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:00,120 Speaker 1: in every room of the house. It's like, okay, well 566 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:02,239 Speaker 1: they haven't done anything so far, so it's fine. Like 567 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:04,920 Speaker 1: how did you understand that that they just lived there 568 00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:06,879 Speaker 1: like everybody else lives there. They don't want to mess 569 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:08,880 Speaker 1: with you, you don't want to just leave them alone? 570 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:12,399 Speaker 1: Or were they guardians or what what was the dynamic here? 571 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,799 Speaker 1: Um Dad probably mentioned it at some point during the 572 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:18,279 Speaker 1: years that I was living there during high school, and 573 00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:21,799 Speaker 1: so because it is so um naturally accepted, it's just 574 00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:24,359 Speaker 1: like okay, the here And then at first maybe it 575 00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:26,600 Speaker 1: was a little bit like you kind of look around 576 00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:28,799 Speaker 1: the room and go, okay, where is it is? Like 577 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:31,040 Speaker 1: is it watching me get undressed? And like can I 578 00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:33,520 Speaker 1: go to the toilet? And then you just forget about it, 579 00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:35,560 Speaker 1: and it's just like, yeah, well, if they're gonna see, 580 00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:38,239 Speaker 1: they're gonna see. I suppose I don't think they really 581 00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:42,879 Speaker 1: care at this point. So, um yeah, we'll be right 582 00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:47,439 Speaker 1: back after the short break. I don't want to ask you, 583 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:51,720 Speaker 1: um specifically, it's one thing to learn, I think, um 584 00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:54,280 Speaker 1: this discipline of how to kind of like feel energy 585 00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:58,080 Speaker 1: and be able to detect the energy. It's another thing 586 00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:01,120 Speaker 1: to be able to get gin to do what you want, right. 587 00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:04,680 Speaker 1: I mean you talked about Solomon. Every Everything that I've 588 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:08,800 Speaker 1: learned in my research is that when people, when the 589 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:11,600 Speaker 1: jin do something for people, it's not for nothing. There 590 00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:15,919 Speaker 1: is some kind of negotiation. They want something or now 591 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:19,200 Speaker 1: Solomon King Solomon was able to control them because he 592 00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:22,000 Speaker 1: had the power of this ring. It wasn't they weren't. 593 00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:25,560 Speaker 1: They weren't helping him happily, they were like they didn't 594 00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:27,759 Speaker 1: have a choice. They write there were his place. So 595 00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:30,600 Speaker 1: for you, first of all, how how did you learn? 596 00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:33,440 Speaker 1: Because that's a whole another level. It's one thing to 597 00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:35,799 Speaker 1: know that they exist, it's another or to be able 598 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:37,520 Speaker 1: to feel them or see them. It's another thing to 599 00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:39,319 Speaker 1: be able to get them to work with you. How 600 00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,120 Speaker 1: did you get to that point? And how do you 601 00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:48,800 Speaker 1: do it? Well? Actually, um see the thing that I 602 00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:55,719 Speaker 1: really sort of m you would you call that like 603 00:36:55,920 --> 00:37:02,520 Speaker 1: about this new you know knowledge is because it's based 604 00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:07,320 Speaker 1: on actually the power of God m hm. So before anything, 605 00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:10,560 Speaker 1: before I start doing anything, I always make a prayer 606 00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:14,719 Speaker 1: that you're the powerful God, You're the powerful and I 607 00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:19,200 Speaker 1: just you as your your health, inducing your other creation. 608 00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:23,320 Speaker 1: Basically it's like that. So so if it's not happening, 609 00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:25,640 Speaker 1: it's not happening. It's not meant to be, you know, 610 00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:29,759 Speaker 1: to be happened. So basically is uh is uh? Not 611 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:34,160 Speaker 1: entirely it's up to two jeans when to help you 612 00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:37,759 Speaker 1: or not? That's right. So it's basically it's up to 613 00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:42,960 Speaker 1: after God if it if you let me use gene 614 00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:48,080 Speaker 1: to help me, then be it. If not, okay, no problem. 615 00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:52,480 Speaker 1: It's sort of things. So I never promise anything like 616 00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:54,920 Speaker 1: if I help people, so I always say ensial light 617 00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:57,080 Speaker 1: will you know it'll do something good. If it's not, 618 00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:02,080 Speaker 1: you know, maybe time and help you with other things, 619 00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:06,960 Speaker 1: that sort of thing. Uh So, based on that believe, 620 00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:14,920 Speaker 1: I never made any transaction. You know, as you said before, 621 00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:18,640 Speaker 1: you know, if you if someone gene do something and 622 00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:21,279 Speaker 1: we have to do something, you know, I never you know, 623 00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:25,360 Speaker 1: I've never done things like that because, uh, you know, 624 00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:29,239 Speaker 1: because it's not it's not what I believe. Basically, I 625 00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:35,000 Speaker 1: don't believe the gene can take over as as human 626 00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:40,440 Speaker 1: because we are we are most uh higher in the 627 00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:43,680 Speaker 1: position in the rank compared to gene. So you actually 628 00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:47,279 Speaker 1: don't think gen can possess human beings if they are 629 00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:51,640 Speaker 1: strong enough, they can't. M hm. Just like just like 630 00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:56,840 Speaker 1: you know, just like if you have a really strong fortress, 631 00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:03,080 Speaker 1: it's gonna be very hard for enemy trying to penetrate it. 632 00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:06,880 Speaker 1: It's a sort of a basic concept. It's you know, 633 00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:09,399 Speaker 1: it's as simple as that. You know, if you're very 634 00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:12,040 Speaker 1: strong in your faith, they won't be able to penetrate 635 00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:16,480 Speaker 1: you and and manipulate you, unless if you let them 636 00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:20,799 Speaker 1: to manipulate you by opening up a channel for them 637 00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:23,680 Speaker 1: to come, then they will, you know, they will really 638 00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:28,640 Speaker 1: manipulates to the maximum, because that's that's how they are. 639 00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:32,480 Speaker 1: You know, there are many great manipulators. Are you able 640 00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:37,319 Speaker 1: to identify like specific gen like for example, if you're 641 00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:40,920 Speaker 1: using the power of ther gin to help in some 642 00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:43,920 Speaker 1: situation and another time you're doing that again, can you 643 00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:45,960 Speaker 1: tell this is the same gen? These are different gen? 644 00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:48,480 Speaker 1: I mean, are you able to differentiate? And can you 645 00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:54,920 Speaker 1: actually communicate with them? Yes? Because just like actually actually 646 00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:58,440 Speaker 1: just like just like as a human being, you know, 647 00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:02,640 Speaker 1: before we sort of have some sort of communication, you 648 00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:05,759 Speaker 1: always ask, you know, what's your name and where you're from? 649 00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:08,000 Speaker 1: Her You sort of thinks, oh my gosh, so you 650 00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:12,280 Speaker 1: asked and they tell you yes, yeah, of course, because 651 00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:15,919 Speaker 1: just like you know, just like very if we meet 652 00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:20,680 Speaker 1: someone's somewhere and introduce ourselves, then so they introduced themselves 653 00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:24,640 Speaker 1: and and you know we Wow, I have chills right now, 654 00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:28,680 Speaker 1: I'm really friend, it's hard for me to good. But 655 00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:33,360 Speaker 1: the interesting thing is the more you know they would 656 00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:39,640 Speaker 1: is the less the less scared to us because we 657 00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:43,680 Speaker 1: are scared of officer price, something that you don't expect, right, 658 00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:47,239 Speaker 1: that's what scarre is all about. But if you know 659 00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:52,040 Speaker 1: who they are and how they live is there's there's 660 00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:55,880 Speaker 1: nothing to fear. Basically the unknown. They are known as 661 00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:59,359 Speaker 1: the scariest thing, that's right. Yeah. So are you able 662 00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:01,359 Speaker 1: to see them? Are you actually able to see them? 663 00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:04,560 Speaker 1: Do they come to you in a certain form. I 664 00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:08,800 Speaker 1: don't know about other people, but with myself, I don't. 665 00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:12,279 Speaker 1: I cannot see them, but I can't tell. We call 666 00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:16,920 Speaker 1: it matta matta hatty. We see them with our eyes 667 00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:22,600 Speaker 1: that we see them are with our spiritual feeling. Okay. 668 00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:26,120 Speaker 1: You know some people may say, oh I can see them. 669 00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:31,120 Speaker 1: Maybe they have a sort of you know, quite ability 670 00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:35,600 Speaker 1: to to penetrate with the their own eyes. But in 671 00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:40,319 Speaker 1: in my case, I use my inner what you call matt, 672 00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:45,799 Speaker 1: what you in the inner revision? So I sort of 673 00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:50,080 Speaker 1: like described this is like this, Yeah, he's like there's 674 00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:52,560 Speaker 1: always she's like this sort of thing. Can I ask 675 00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:54,879 Speaker 1: you what kind of things that you might ask them 676 00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:58,359 Speaker 1: other than the healing? What are the kinds of situations 677 00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:04,879 Speaker 1: might you invite to help the gen? Oh? Uh? Well, 678 00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:13,920 Speaker 1: for example, like like like finding, isn't it finding things? Yeah? Yeah, 679 00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:22,200 Speaker 1: because basically, basically, gene can help us for something that's 680 00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:27,200 Speaker 1: already happened, but not you know, they cannot predict, but 681 00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:29,839 Speaker 1: they can help with something that's already happened. So they 682 00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:31,960 Speaker 1: can't predict the future. They can't see the future, which 683 00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:35,160 Speaker 1: means if somebody comes to you and says and ask 684 00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:37,000 Speaker 1: for your help to predict something in the future or 685 00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:39,040 Speaker 1: to help like a decision for the future, you cannot 686 00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:41,640 Speaker 1: help that. You know, if they if someone will say 687 00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:46,000 Speaker 1: that to me, at least they will manipulated by gin. 688 00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:49,880 Speaker 1: I got it, because because they can. How can you know, 689 00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:53,799 Speaker 1: how can gene see something that not even there yet? 690 00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:57,520 Speaker 1: You not even there? Yeah, Basically it's as simple as that. 691 00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:01,000 Speaker 1: So if it's something it's already happened, you can't ask 692 00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:07,960 Speaker 1: them because they may not himself or herself witnessing what's happening, 693 00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:12,920 Speaker 1: but maybe other Uh you know, I had the gene 694 00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:17,160 Speaker 1: and witness thing, so to me, the theory basically just 695 00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:22,880 Speaker 1: like googling, Oh my god, this is amazing. This is amazing. 696 00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:26,400 Speaker 1: It's like just like if you want to know something, 697 00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:29,040 Speaker 1: yeah you can, you can just see it. Behind your 698 00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:32,640 Speaker 1: laptop over they when just googling and lots of employersing 699 00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:34,799 Speaker 1: came into you and they just speak this one that's 700 00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:37,240 Speaker 1: most suitable to you. So what it is too different 701 00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:40,440 Speaker 1: with Gene. You know, I thought um anitsa before you 702 00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:43,640 Speaker 1: joined UM the Call. I was telling you that this 703 00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:45,799 Speaker 1: is not my first podcast. I've been podcasting for five 704 00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:49,320 Speaker 1: years and I began my first podcast is about solving 705 00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:53,360 Speaker 1: like wrong for conviction cases where innocent people are in prison. 706 00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:55,760 Speaker 1: And the reason I got into that work is because 707 00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:59,160 Speaker 1: I have been an advocate trying to free an innocent 708 00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:02,359 Speaker 1: man since for a murder he was only a boy 709 00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:05,640 Speaker 1: then seventeen. Uh and Ariana, I'm still trying to solve 710 00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:08,239 Speaker 1: this murder. He's still in prison now and we have 711 00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:10,680 Speaker 1: been fighting and fighting and fighting in the appeals. I 712 00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:16,280 Speaker 1: might need your help, like I know, listen, I am, 713 00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:18,200 Speaker 1: I'm I'm happy to go to court, I'm happy to 714 00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:20,600 Speaker 1: go to the media. I will try political solutions and 715 00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:22,720 Speaker 1: I will ask the gin if that's what it takes 716 00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:26,080 Speaker 1: to free this poor boy, because he has been in 717 00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:29,160 Speaker 1: prison for twenty years for something he didn't do. Uh. 718 00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:35,120 Speaker 1: So maybe we can talk separately about because if anybody 719 00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:38,080 Speaker 1: can help me solve this murder, then uh, then he 720 00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:40,719 Speaker 1: can come home and be free. Finally, So, and I 721 00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:43,640 Speaker 1: swear I'm not joking at all. So, um, this is 722 00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:46,040 Speaker 1: but happy actually, But you know, so there is a 723 00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:49,480 Speaker 1: phenomena at least in the United States where their law 724 00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:52,279 Speaker 1: enforcement has worked with mediums and people who have these 725 00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:54,960 Speaker 1: abilities where they're able to communicate. And so is that 726 00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:59,040 Speaker 1: something you've ever done? Not not, you know, intuit it 727 00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:03,279 Speaker 1: far much more like family matters so close French metter, 728 00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:08,880 Speaker 1: but not something that is well, I'm going to introduce 729 00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:14,640 Speaker 1: you to that whole world. Now that's gonna be great. Okay, 730 00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:17,640 Speaker 1: So and Sai, Actually I'm kind of curious as you 731 00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:20,480 Speaker 1: listen to your father talk about these abilities and that 732 00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:23,839 Speaker 1: he's communicating with Gin and he can what like, what 733 00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:26,600 Speaker 1: are you thinking do you think I would you fully 734 00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:28,880 Speaker 1: believe to present this is your father? This is not 735 00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:30,880 Speaker 1: like me talking a stranger where I'm like, you know, 736 00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:33,600 Speaker 1: maybe I'm kind of skepital, do you do you like, yeah, 737 00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:35,839 Speaker 1: it's my dad, you know, is if he's saying it, 738 00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:40,080 Speaker 1: it's the truth. Yeah, kind of because when it's when 739 00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:43,719 Speaker 1: it's someone that you know that speaks about it. Um, 740 00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:46,239 Speaker 1: you just kind of go okay, well, yeah, that's that's 741 00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:49,760 Speaker 1: how it is. Um. I think I always call myself 742 00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:52,480 Speaker 1: a skeptic, and it's it's a skeptic in in not 743 00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:55,640 Speaker 1: the sense that I don't believe anything like this exists. 744 00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:58,640 Speaker 1: It's more that I'm always questioning when people tell me things. 745 00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:01,600 Speaker 1: But depending on the person who tells me. Like if 746 00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:04,760 Speaker 1: you hear a story on you know, ghost hunting about whatever, 747 00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:07,040 Speaker 1: you go, well, I don't know this person. They could 748 00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:08,560 Speaker 1: just be doing it for a TV show. But when 749 00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:10,600 Speaker 1: it's someone though I don't trust any of those teams, 750 00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:14,440 Speaker 1: I don't. Yeah, but when it's someone that you know, 751 00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:18,440 Speaker 1: it has a different weight to it has a different meaning. So, um, 752 00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:21,040 Speaker 1: even though I don't experience yet, well does experience that, 753 00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:24,319 Speaker 1: or yet my sister experienced that, and it just kind 754 00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:29,720 Speaker 1: of it's accepted as fact and and yeah, just move on. Yeah, 755 00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:32,520 Speaker 1: it's it's it is a bit weird, Um. I think, 756 00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:39,280 Speaker 1: especially for non Indonesians or maybe western quote unquote Western people, 757 00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:43,080 Speaker 1: because it's it's not as accepted. When you talk about 758 00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:45,319 Speaker 1: this kind of stuff, you can really get sort of 759 00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:50,759 Speaker 1: some looks of like we'll look as far as I'm concerned. Yea, 760 00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:53,200 Speaker 1: as far as I'm concerned, the worst has always looked 761 00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:56,200 Speaker 1: to the east for enlightenment. Okay, we know what's going on. 762 00:46:56,280 --> 00:47:00,400 Speaker 1: We know what's up that the demensure and so you know, 763 00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:02,440 Speaker 1: we've been tapped into them for thousands of years and 764 00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:04,600 Speaker 1: that's why. Um, in the West you have every so 765 00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:07,600 Speaker 1: often grous pop up and may people all like fools 766 00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:09,800 Speaker 1: out of people. But um, there's kind of a hunger 767 00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:11,480 Speaker 1: and thirst. I think a lot of people all in 768 00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:14,000 Speaker 1: the world. Yeah, the people believe that there is something 769 00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:18,680 Speaker 1: because people on every culture experience, you know, things that 770 00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:21,680 Speaker 1: they cannot explain. So there's like this thirst to have 771 00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:24,759 Speaker 1: it explained. But until let me ask you something, um, 772 00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:26,799 Speaker 1: and I mean I want to talk about like the 773 00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:29,360 Speaker 1: specific gen stuff a little more with but let me 774 00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:31,000 Speaker 1: ask you thing. You said that you had a podcast 775 00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:33,319 Speaker 1: before a few years ago about horror, and now you're 776 00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:35,879 Speaker 1: doing something and this is our archild probably goes which 777 00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:38,920 Speaker 1: whether the way the name is brilliant, thinks I'm quite 778 00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:41,719 Speaker 1: happy with the name. Yes, it's so clever. Who came 779 00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:45,600 Speaker 1: up with the name itself? I did, and I's it's 780 00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:47,880 Speaker 1: a funny little story. But when I told every single 781 00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:50,399 Speaker 1: person I video called them because I wanted to see 782 00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:53,439 Speaker 1: their expressions, and all my siblings, who are all younger 783 00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:55,799 Speaker 1: than May just kind of rolled their eyes just did 784 00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:57,600 Speaker 1: oh I had to get on a video call for 785 00:47:57,640 --> 00:47:59,680 Speaker 1: this that kind of stuff. So they're not as impressed 786 00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:02,080 Speaker 1: as you, So I think. Listen, I know how hard 787 00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:03,680 Speaker 1: it is to brand a podcast. Let me tell you. 788 00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:06,680 Speaker 1: I had a full production team from two different production 789 00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:08,480 Speaker 1: companies and me trying to come up with a name 790 00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:10,040 Speaker 1: for the show, and the best we could do was 791 00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:15,000 Speaker 1: the hid Engine, which is not that creative. So Archapela 792 00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:17,080 Speaker 1: Ghost is a brilliant name, and I even love your 793 00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:19,480 Speaker 1: logo and stuff, so kudos on it. Um but but 794 00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:22,239 Speaker 1: so yeah, so now, but Arcapela Ghost is not a 795 00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:24,840 Speaker 1: Would you consider it like a horror podcast? Is it 796 00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:26,640 Speaker 1: something that you want to scare people with? What is 797 00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:30,080 Speaker 1: your point of doing this? Oh okay, so that's actually 798 00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:32,640 Speaker 1: a really good question. The answer is no, I really 799 00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:35,040 Speaker 1: don't want to scare people. I really want people just 800 00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:37,640 Speaker 1: to be more open about things that they haven't heard 801 00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:41,600 Speaker 1: of it or experienced. Um, we don't sort of try 802 00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:45,520 Speaker 1: and get into the creepy music or the creepy stories 803 00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:48,239 Speaker 1: and I don't know special effects sounds and all that 804 00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:50,920 Speaker 1: kind of stuff, And we're very jokey and very casual 805 00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:54,680 Speaker 1: in our conversations because I want people to just experience 806 00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:57,520 Speaker 1: it in a in a lighthearted, like they're just talking 807 00:48:57,560 --> 00:48:59,600 Speaker 1: with their friends kind of way. So I really don't 808 00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:01,960 Speaker 1: want to scare people at all. But it is all 809 00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:04,800 Speaker 1: still related in that same kind of universe where it's 810 00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:07,880 Speaker 1: the unknown, like horror is fear of the unknown, and 811 00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:12,560 Speaker 1: all these supernatural matters of things that are unknown. So 812 00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:16,640 Speaker 1: I guess in a way it is it is connected. Um, 813 00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:19,839 Speaker 1: were you one of those kids who wanted to try 814 00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:22,839 Speaker 1: to connect with the unknown? Like did you like being 815 00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:28,040 Speaker 1: scared and bring it? I definitely don't want to actually 816 00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:30,960 Speaker 1: experience it's it's kind of weird, like I sort of 817 00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:34,239 Speaker 1: just accept that they're there, and then it's kind of if. 818 00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:36,560 Speaker 1: And then people ask, so you want to see proof, 819 00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:38,120 Speaker 1: and I'm like, no, no, I don't need to see proof. 820 00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:39,960 Speaker 1: I'm just like, yeah, that's fine, if they're there, I 821 00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:42,799 Speaker 1: just don't want to actually see them. They're still to me, 822 00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:46,160 Speaker 1: it's irrational that I can sort of be skeptical but 823 00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:49,919 Speaker 1: also believing but also not wanting proof. At the same time, 824 00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:53,359 Speaker 1: it doesn't really it's not quite logical, but that's just 825 00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:56,239 Speaker 1: that's just how it is, it I think, I mean, 826 00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:59,479 Speaker 1: it sounds a lot like faith in religion, like every 827 00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:02,040 Speaker 1: faith and legion, right, I mean, we believe in things 828 00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:04,480 Speaker 1: we can't see and we don't not need to be proven, 829 00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:07,279 Speaker 1: and I so I don't think it's um. Look, look, 830 00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:09,960 Speaker 1: you know Halloween is fast approaching by the time this 831 00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:12,759 Speaker 1: episode airs. I'm not sure if Halloween will have come 832 00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:15,839 Speaker 1: and gone. But even in the West, it's like, you know, 833 00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:18,920 Speaker 1: there is this kind of like at least kind of 834 00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:20,600 Speaker 1: like there's a desire to want to believe in it 835 00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:23,680 Speaker 1: um and and actually a desire to kind of want 836 00:50:23,719 --> 00:50:26,080 Speaker 1: to be scared. We love the horror movies. We love 837 00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:28,400 Speaker 1: the scare of the jump scares and stuff. All right, 838 00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:30,600 Speaker 1: let me ask you, was there ever a time when 839 00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:36,319 Speaker 1: you were actually really scared of any experience that you had. 840 00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:39,200 Speaker 1: Maybe you opened a door to something you didn't want, 841 00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:42,640 Speaker 1: or you set a prayer for help and instead of 842 00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:47,000 Speaker 1: help something happen an entity that was dark and scary 843 00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:51,919 Speaker 1: instead came to you. Yeah. Uh, well, actually that's uh, 844 00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:55,839 Speaker 1: that's one of the reason I kind of a sort 845 00:50:55,840 --> 00:51:00,400 Speaker 1: of you know, stop doing these sort of things and oh, 846 00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:02,800 Speaker 1: you're not doing it anymore, but I need to help. Wait, 847 00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:09,680 Speaker 1: the thing is like mm hmm, I still called myself 848 00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:15,680 Speaker 1: first in the beginner's sort of thing, and I haven't 849 00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:20,920 Speaker 1: really yet met the very what you call that personality 850 00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:27,920 Speaker 1: gene yet. Uh, but it's not it's not impossible that 851 00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:32,480 Speaker 1: if I keep doing it, I will meet a gene 852 00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:39,319 Speaker 1: who who is more powerful than I do. Then it 853 00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:44,880 Speaker 1: can you know, endangered my myself sort of thing. Because 854 00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:47,680 Speaker 1: I realized it's my knowledge is still for the you know, 855 00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:50,880 Speaker 1: for the shallow in this in this what do you 856 00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:57,360 Speaker 1: call it gen's business? So I decided, okay, um, maybe 857 00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:00,840 Speaker 1: maybe I shouldn't, you know, continue of being you know, 858 00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:04,560 Speaker 1: this sort of thing. At least I knows about who 859 00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:06,920 Speaker 1: they are and how they live and how can we 860 00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:11,359 Speaker 1: can sort of live togethers And I have knowledge about them, 861 00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:14,520 Speaker 1: and it's already sort of enough for me, you know, 862 00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:19,200 Speaker 1: I don't have to take it further because because again 863 00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:23,000 Speaker 1: I'm not meant to be that kind of a person, 864 00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:25,080 Speaker 1: you know. It just it's just something that happened to 865 00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:29,120 Speaker 1: me in in you know, in a concidencly you know, 866 00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:32,319 Speaker 1: so you actually stop doing all this kind of work. 867 00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:35,719 Speaker 1: But once you have it just still kind of like, 868 00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:40,200 Speaker 1: you know, it's still carried with you. But I did not, 869 00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:43,239 Speaker 1: you know, take it further sort of thing. You know, 870 00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:47,200 Speaker 1: I still can feel it, but but maybe in the 871 00:52:47,239 --> 00:52:51,160 Speaker 1: old days. Uh. It's a funny thing because in the 872 00:52:51,239 --> 00:52:54,279 Speaker 1: old day I just treated it's just like a new 873 00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:57,719 Speaker 1: friend to me, you know, like if I if I 874 00:52:57,760 --> 00:52:59,840 Speaker 1: have nothing to do it that I just you go 875 00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:02,759 Speaker 1: about in the end, the start calling one of them 876 00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:05,839 Speaker 1: and have some sort of you know, conversation with them. 877 00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:11,200 Speaker 1: You know, so that's why you're hanging out on the balcony. Wow, 878 00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:16,959 Speaker 1: it's amazing. So from from that experience, I learned quite 879 00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:20,640 Speaker 1: a bit about but you know how they leave and 880 00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:23,000 Speaker 1: tell me, tell me about that, Tell me what you learned. 881 00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:27,359 Speaker 1: I want to I want to hear this. Well. Uh, 882 00:53:29,239 --> 00:53:32,040 Speaker 1: I have a good story before dad Dad starts. It's 883 00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:34,520 Speaker 1: just something that I thought of. Is you mentioned in 884 00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:37,000 Speaker 1: in your episode Rabbia about there's all the different genes 885 00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:39,719 Speaker 1: and the different kinds there are. There's the one that's 886 00:53:39,719 --> 00:53:42,879 Speaker 1: sort of attached to a person or a family. Yeah, 887 00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:47,280 Speaker 1: so our family like the extended family, um, like dad's 888 00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:50,480 Speaker 1: siblings and that kind of stuff. There is actually supposedly 889 00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:54,040 Speaker 1: one or some is a dad that sort of protecting 890 00:53:54,080 --> 00:53:58,160 Speaker 1: the family. M oh yeah, okay, okay, they've been passed 891 00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:02,040 Speaker 1: down through generations something like that. Yet And is that 892 00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:04,480 Speaker 1: something you were told about growing up or like everybody 893 00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:07,120 Speaker 1: in the family kind of knows or um it was. 894 00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:10,120 Speaker 1: I think I heard about it when I was grown up. 895 00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:12,759 Speaker 1: So I had already left gone to Australia and come 896 00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:15,600 Speaker 1: back and one of those times because stories and things 897 00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:19,000 Speaker 1: like this, information just comes in like you know, this 898 00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:21,680 Speaker 1: cousin had a baby and we have a gin guardian 899 00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:25,400 Speaker 1: for the family, that kind of thing. So and it 900 00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:27,440 Speaker 1: was just like, okay, so that's something else that this 901 00:54:27,560 --> 00:54:30,480 Speaker 1: family has amongst all the other things. So yeah, that's 902 00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:33,640 Speaker 1: something Dad would know much more about. Because I'm not 903 00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:37,080 Speaker 1: up with all the Indonesian gossip, okay, okay, Well, I 904 00:54:37,080 --> 00:54:38,480 Speaker 1: want to hear of the guss about the general. I 905 00:54:38,520 --> 00:54:40,359 Speaker 1: want to know what the GM live like and what 906 00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:42,080 Speaker 1: you learned from them, and then I want to hear 907 00:54:42,080 --> 00:54:48,120 Speaker 1: about your family. Jin. Well actually, yeah, in Indonesia, just 908 00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:52,799 Speaker 1: as you mentioned before, in the old days, because you know, 909 00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:56,799 Speaker 1: Indonesian were colonized by Dutch were quite sometimes so our 910 00:54:56,920 --> 00:55:01,880 Speaker 1: ancestors are are all grandparents, you know, always in the world. 911 00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:07,640 Speaker 1: It does so to a certain extent. They use jeans 912 00:55:07,719 --> 00:55:12,719 Speaker 1: to help, right, So the gene is passed on from 913 00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:17,120 Speaker 1: generation to generation to help the family to basically it's 914 00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:23,640 Speaker 1: uh just like a guardian kind of thing. Uh and 915 00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:26,600 Speaker 1: then's passed on from a family to family to family 916 00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:34,400 Speaker 1: until I think my my my father uh side. And 917 00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:41,399 Speaker 1: this story basically it's very interesting because I did at 918 00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:44,759 Speaker 1: the time, I didn't know about that. But I have 919 00:55:45,200 --> 00:55:49,359 Speaker 1: a producers film producers friends who who I work with 920 00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:53,680 Speaker 1: her quite some often. All of a sudden he called 921 00:55:53,719 --> 00:55:57,920 Speaker 1: me and I said, oh, arno, uh can we, you know, 922 00:55:58,120 --> 00:56:01,480 Speaker 1: meet up have a coffee? I said, oh yeah, what 923 00:56:01,640 --> 00:56:03,719 Speaker 1: what's what's all about? And now I have something to 924 00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:06,720 Speaker 1: tell you said, oh yeah, I said, okay, So so 925 00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:10,040 Speaker 1: you know, we made up and have a coffee. And 926 00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:13,759 Speaker 1: I asked her, okay, what is this all about? And 927 00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:18,360 Speaker 1: she said, okay, next to you, this uh, this person, 928 00:56:18,440 --> 00:56:21,480 Speaker 1: he said, what person? You know? It was in the 929 00:56:21,640 --> 00:56:23,920 Speaker 1: in the cafe. In the cafe and he said, this 930 00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:27,000 Speaker 1: new person dressed like this and this this is this 931 00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:34,440 Speaker 1: and he said, he has one, uh guardian to your family. 932 00:56:34,840 --> 00:56:36,799 Speaker 1: And I said, no, I didn't. I didn't know. What 933 00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:38,640 Speaker 1: is it? What is it? What? What is it? What 934 00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:42,320 Speaker 1: does she want? I didn't know that. Then my family 935 00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:45,759 Speaker 1: has a guarden known as not for not you know, 936 00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:49,680 Speaker 1: from your family, but from your father's and father's families. Okay, 937 00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:54,040 Speaker 1: what does he wants? So he told my my At 938 00:56:54,040 --> 00:56:56,279 Speaker 1: that time, I didn't know. I didn't know, but this 939 00:56:56,360 --> 00:56:59,439 Speaker 1: sort of spiritual thing, you know, I was still pure 940 00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:07,960 Speaker 1: and simple. So so she said, uh, as he asked 941 00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:13,040 Speaker 1: you whether his surface is still needed? Oh my gosh, said, 942 00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:19,280 Speaker 1: I said, what surface? Where he's been uh, guarding your 943 00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:25,320 Speaker 1: family you know for this uh quite quite sometimes now, 944 00:57:25,680 --> 00:57:31,120 Speaker 1: you know. And now it seems like nobody's really really 945 00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:37,400 Speaker 1: you know, cares about his presence. Well because you know, 946 00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:41,680 Speaker 1: my family basically you can call it modern family, so 947 00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:45,720 Speaker 1: we don't really into that sort of thing anymore. He needed, 948 00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:51,400 Speaker 1: he needn't need be needed. Yeah. So so so he 949 00:57:51,400 --> 00:57:56,520 Speaker 1: he asked me whether my family still needs his surface 950 00:57:56,800 --> 00:58:01,440 Speaker 1: to guarding the family. Uh, And I said, well, I 951 00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:03,840 Speaker 1: don't know about it. I asked my family, you know, 952 00:58:03,960 --> 00:58:08,680 Speaker 1: and what's happening? So I get my family, my siblings 953 00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:12,600 Speaker 1: or together, and I told them about what's happening. That 954 00:58:12,680 --> 00:58:15,840 Speaker 1: I met a friend of mine and told them about 955 00:58:15,880 --> 00:58:21,080 Speaker 1: what's happening. And my eldest but uh said, oh yeah, 956 00:58:21,160 --> 00:58:24,280 Speaker 1: this is from you know, from the great great brand 957 00:58:24,280 --> 00:58:28,880 Speaker 1: fathers and this and the suffer. Okay, So now you know, 958 00:58:28,960 --> 00:58:32,600 Speaker 1: I asked you all whether we still want him to 959 00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:38,160 Speaker 1: god us, you know, if not, then I let him 960 00:58:38,160 --> 00:58:41,920 Speaker 1: go and do whatever, you know, become a genior or something, 961 00:58:41,920 --> 00:58:45,440 Speaker 1: you know. Uh. And so now of course my family, 962 00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:49,200 Speaker 1: you know, family not into that sort of thing. No, no, 963 00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:51,760 Speaker 1: no they can you know, he's free to go whatever, 964 00:58:51,920 --> 00:58:55,600 Speaker 1: you know, and uh and and just say thank you 965 00:58:55,640 --> 00:58:58,080 Speaker 1: for all this time. The surface they're given to the family, 966 00:58:58,400 --> 00:59:02,480 Speaker 1: so you know, so I I didn't know how to 967 00:59:02,520 --> 00:59:05,680 Speaker 1: do that, but but I just said to him, okay, 968 00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:08,360 Speaker 1: who whoever you are, who you're getting my family? And 969 00:59:08,440 --> 00:59:12,360 Speaker 1: I said, the family that you know now don't really 970 00:59:12,560 --> 00:59:16,480 Speaker 1: need your first surface, but the appreciate of the surface 971 00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:20,280 Speaker 1: has been given to family for this summertime, and now 972 00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:23,600 Speaker 1: you're free to go. So you know, basically this is 973 00:59:23,640 --> 00:59:25,520 Speaker 1: what I do. You know, because I didn't know how 974 00:59:25,560 --> 00:59:28,360 Speaker 1: to communicate with Gin at that time, you know, right, right, 975 00:59:29,240 --> 00:59:32,840 Speaker 1: So the family gin is gone, the family gene is gone. 976 00:59:32,880 --> 00:59:35,880 Speaker 1: So it's you know, but I didn't put him in 977 00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:40,640 Speaker 1: the bottle. Right Well, let me ask you this. You know, um, 978 00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:42,840 Speaker 1: when when you said that, you got to learn a 979 00:59:42,840 --> 00:59:45,360 Speaker 1: lot about like Gin life and how the Gin are 980 00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:48,480 Speaker 1: and the Gin world is. Right, the most calm portrayal 981 00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:51,000 Speaker 1: of the Gin in the Western imagination is exactly that 982 00:59:51,040 --> 00:59:52,880 Speaker 1: you find a bottle, you rub it, the genie comes 983 00:59:52,880 --> 00:59:55,400 Speaker 1: out and says, I'll grant you three wishes. Does that 984 00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:58,440 Speaker 1: actually exist in the genie world? From it's from your 985 00:59:58,480 --> 01:00:01,960 Speaker 1: interactions with Gin, it doesn't seem like the genner there 986 01:00:01,960 --> 01:00:05,280 Speaker 1: to like just grant wishes. They might help. Granting wishes 987 01:00:05,360 --> 01:00:07,760 Speaker 1: is like bringing you something like some money or or 988 01:00:08,640 --> 01:00:12,000 Speaker 1: making you wealthy or you know, instead of helping you 989 01:00:12,120 --> 01:00:16,080 Speaker 1: solve something or fix the problem. Well, basically that's what 990 01:00:16,200 --> 01:00:20,400 Speaker 1: I that's what I find out. Yeah, when I you know, 991 01:00:21,560 --> 01:00:24,600 Speaker 1: I had a lot of conversation. If eat gene, they 992 01:00:24,640 --> 01:00:28,960 Speaker 1: are just like us, you know, they are a good gene, 993 01:00:29,040 --> 01:00:32,360 Speaker 1: they're a bad gene there, you know, just like in 994 01:00:32,440 --> 01:00:35,600 Speaker 1: our daily life, there is a crook, there is a 995 01:00:35,600 --> 01:00:39,480 Speaker 1: banded this whatever, and there's also good people as well. 996 01:00:40,280 --> 01:00:43,800 Speaker 1: So that's that's what I found out. So to me, 997 01:00:45,360 --> 01:00:48,600 Speaker 1: those gene who are bad, those who are trying to 998 01:00:48,640 --> 01:00:52,120 Speaker 1: scare us a bit, whatever operason that they they you know, 999 01:00:52,240 --> 01:00:56,640 Speaker 1: manipulation that they do to human being, that that are 1000 01:00:56,840 --> 01:01:01,600 Speaker 1: the kind of gene who are the baby the good one? 1001 01:01:01,680 --> 01:01:03,880 Speaker 1: They don't do it sort of don't trust those ones, 1002 01:01:03,920 --> 01:01:06,320 Speaker 1: the ones who make those promises, that's what you're saying. 1003 01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:12,560 Speaker 1: That's that's right, because because the problem we don't say them, 1004 01:01:12,640 --> 01:01:15,160 Speaker 1: so we don't really know what they're doing. So why 1005 01:01:15,440 --> 01:01:19,120 Speaker 1: why we're trusting something that you don't really you know 1006 01:01:21,720 --> 01:01:28,360 Speaker 1: all about them? So uh we you know, have you 1007 01:01:28,800 --> 01:01:31,400 Speaker 1: have you ever come across In one of the episodes 1008 01:01:31,680 --> 01:01:34,280 Speaker 1: um that will air, I'm going to talk a little 1009 01:01:34,280 --> 01:01:38,760 Speaker 1: bit about relationships between gin and human beings. Is that 1010 01:01:38,840 --> 01:01:40,760 Speaker 1: something you've ever seen? And when I say relationship, I 1011 01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:46,480 Speaker 1: mean like an actor like a romantic relationship. Yeah, because 1012 01:01:46,520 --> 01:01:51,360 Speaker 1: that that was actually my first experience. That's what can 1013 01:01:51,360 --> 01:01:56,600 Speaker 1: you talk about it? When I actually my first experience 1014 01:01:56,920 --> 01:01:59,920 Speaker 1: when when this this this man to the past, it 1015 01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:03,600 Speaker 1: on the knowledge to me and he wanted to to 1016 01:02:03,640 --> 01:02:07,120 Speaker 1: test it whether I can you know, I can utilize 1017 01:02:07,240 --> 01:02:09,880 Speaker 1: knowledge you've given to me. So he's sort of sort 1018 01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:12,880 Speaker 1: of like calling, you know, a few genes and go 1019 01:02:12,960 --> 01:02:16,840 Speaker 1: and go and talk to me through through my body. 1020 01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:19,840 Speaker 1: And I become became a medium this sort of thing, 1021 01:02:19,920 --> 01:02:26,280 Speaker 1: you know. And and surprisingly he said to me, okay, 1022 01:02:26,320 --> 01:02:30,480 Speaker 1: I have given you. I passed it on to you. Uh, 1023 01:02:31,480 --> 01:02:35,880 Speaker 1: this such and such a gene. He he's a male 1024 01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:40,800 Speaker 1: gene and this he is big and whatever. She just 1025 01:02:40,960 --> 01:02:42,880 Speaker 1: described it to me, and it just passed it on 1026 01:02:42,960 --> 01:02:47,200 Speaker 1: to me. So I can't feel it how they are 1027 01:02:47,480 --> 01:02:50,280 Speaker 1: if they are within me sort of thing, you know. 1028 01:02:51,200 --> 01:02:57,240 Speaker 1: And it's very it is every single jeans are quite different. Yeah, 1029 01:02:57,920 --> 01:03:01,320 Speaker 1: the feeling that's uh, that I've felt at that time, 1030 01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:06,520 Speaker 1: you know. And and in the last he said to me, 1031 01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:12,600 Speaker 1: I'm gonna pass it on a female gene, so you 1032 01:03:12,680 --> 01:03:14,959 Speaker 1: can tell the different if it's a female or male. 1033 01:03:15,120 --> 01:03:19,840 Speaker 1: So so, so he is passing on and and and 1034 01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:24,000 Speaker 1: I said, yeah, it is different, it's quite different. It's 1035 01:03:24,120 --> 01:03:27,160 Speaker 1: more gentle sort of thing. The gentle feelings come in 1036 01:03:27,760 --> 01:03:34,080 Speaker 1: two to your bodies. And and and he started making question. 1037 01:03:34,560 --> 01:03:37,640 Speaker 1: He asked the gene who what are you doing? And 1038 01:03:38,080 --> 01:03:41,439 Speaker 1: what's your name? And where where you from that sort 1039 01:03:41,480 --> 01:03:45,280 Speaker 1: of thing, you know, and it is very funny because, uh, 1040 01:03:47,000 --> 01:03:49,920 Speaker 1: he asked, who are you and he said, I mean 1041 01:03:50,000 --> 01:03:53,640 Speaker 1: sat in such it. I think I told the nieces 1042 01:03:53,840 --> 01:03:58,040 Speaker 1: to it. Uh. The names, the name that you know 1043 01:03:58,240 --> 01:04:02,640 Speaker 1: that that I it's very I don't know, it's just 1044 01:04:03,320 --> 01:04:06,480 Speaker 1: un human name sort of thing, you know. Okay, it's 1045 01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:09,160 Speaker 1: not named that we're used to, and that's right. And 1046 01:04:09,440 --> 01:04:12,120 Speaker 1: and said, okay, what are you doing here? Well, I 1047 01:04:12,200 --> 01:04:15,800 Speaker 1: just passed on this house and you called me, said okay, 1048 01:04:16,240 --> 01:04:18,560 Speaker 1: and wherever do you live in it? And she said 1049 01:04:18,600 --> 01:04:25,760 Speaker 1: I live in India? It's really yeah. Yeah. And what 1050 01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:28,960 Speaker 1: is your family? I'm the daughters of a king, said 1051 01:04:29,600 --> 01:04:33,960 Speaker 1: mh in India. He said, okay, how old are you? 1052 01:04:34,560 --> 01:04:38,560 Speaker 1: And I can I can't remember it, but still teenages basically, 1053 01:04:38,760 --> 01:04:43,080 Speaker 1: you know, he's still teenages. And and this man asked 1054 01:04:43,080 --> 01:04:46,640 Speaker 1: me are you are you married it? No, I'm still 1055 01:04:46,800 --> 01:04:50,160 Speaker 1: I'm still a teenager seventeen years and again do you 1056 01:04:50,240 --> 01:04:53,520 Speaker 1: want to get married? Oh? Yes, I said, And that's 1057 01:04:53,520 --> 01:04:56,320 Speaker 1: what she said. And you do you like arian and 1058 01:04:56,400 --> 01:05:00,720 Speaker 1: she said yes, I like my U. This is a 1059 01:05:00,880 --> 01:05:04,560 Speaker 1: very you know. I I just sort of really stunned, 1060 01:05:04,600 --> 01:05:07,240 Speaker 1: you know, just you're hearing these answers come out of 1061 01:05:07,280 --> 01:05:10,360 Speaker 1: your own mouth. That's right. Just just like just just 1062 01:05:10,560 --> 01:05:14,160 Speaker 1: like this, just like I'm talking to you, I'm using it, 1063 01:05:14,280 --> 01:05:16,120 Speaker 1: but you know it's not you, but it's you. You're 1064 01:05:16,120 --> 01:05:20,360 Speaker 1: not I know, I'm using you know, like right at 1065 01:05:20,440 --> 01:05:23,680 Speaker 1: this moment, I'm using a headset. Nobody says this, says 1066 01:05:23,720 --> 01:05:26,720 Speaker 1: I'm talking to someone, but I'm talking because I hear 1067 01:05:26,840 --> 01:05:30,360 Speaker 1: you talking through much. It's a sort of a similar sponcept. 1068 01:05:30,760 --> 01:05:33,200 Speaker 1: You know, I hear them talking, I know it is 1069 01:05:33,440 --> 01:05:40,960 Speaker 1: not me, right right, and so basically they I give 1070 01:05:41,040 --> 01:05:46,800 Speaker 1: myself to amplify their voice kind of concept. Yeah, and 1071 01:05:47,040 --> 01:05:50,280 Speaker 1: you know, yeah, okay, I like him. Okay, do you 1072 01:05:50,320 --> 01:05:53,240 Speaker 1: want to marry here? You know why not? I mean, 1073 01:05:53,280 --> 01:05:56,040 Speaker 1: you know, I make it a very very casual and 1074 01:05:57,320 --> 01:06:02,000 Speaker 1: and this this man said, I would that my spiritual guru. 1075 01:06:03,040 --> 01:06:07,080 Speaker 1: He staid, uh, he married that. But and you know what, 1076 01:06:07,400 --> 01:06:13,080 Speaker 1: what's very surprising to hear the answer, And he said 1077 01:06:13,320 --> 01:06:19,400 Speaker 1: we're Muslim his for wife. No, And I know, I 1078 01:06:19,560 --> 01:06:24,120 Speaker 1: just laughing, you know, and I just laughing and and said, okay, 1079 01:06:24,200 --> 01:06:26,640 Speaker 1: oh yeah, no, no, no, he doesn't he doesn't want 1080 01:06:26,680 --> 01:06:28,640 Speaker 1: you to get Okay, you can. You can, you can 1081 01:06:28,720 --> 01:06:32,120 Speaker 1: just go okay, So this was an opportunity you had 1082 01:06:33,120 --> 01:06:36,320 Speaker 1: and you didn't take. There are people apparently who have 1083 01:06:36,480 --> 01:06:38,840 Speaker 1: taken the opportunity to say, yeah, I'm going to establish 1084 01:06:39,640 --> 01:06:43,000 Speaker 1: a relationship with the gin, a marriage or romantic relationship. 1085 01:06:43,280 --> 01:06:44,920 Speaker 1: Have you ever met somebody like that? Do you know 1086 01:06:45,000 --> 01:06:49,320 Speaker 1: anybody like that? Uh? Well, I I read quite a 1087 01:06:49,440 --> 01:06:54,520 Speaker 1: lot of people who hasn't married Jean, but I never 1088 01:06:55,600 --> 01:07:00,320 Speaker 1: encounter with someone that I knew. Would you recommend tnue 1089 01:07:01,280 --> 01:07:05,959 Speaker 1: for those who are single and looking at what actually 1090 01:07:06,080 --> 01:07:12,720 Speaker 1: it may happen? You know why? Because um, it is 1091 01:07:12,800 --> 01:07:15,840 Speaker 1: a versus in the court on that said, all you 1092 01:07:15,960 --> 01:07:22,240 Speaker 1: mankind married your own kind, so meaning there's a possibility 1093 01:07:22,400 --> 01:07:25,840 Speaker 1: that they can marry the under kind, right right, right, 1094 01:07:25,960 --> 01:07:29,720 Speaker 1: But that is so true. Yeah, yeah, married your own kind, 1095 01:07:30,080 --> 01:07:34,240 Speaker 1: especially otherwise if they cannot do that, just you know, 1096 01:07:34,680 --> 01:07:37,479 Speaker 1: God wouldn't have to tell you that, Yeah, exactly. Yeah, 1097 01:07:37,960 --> 01:07:41,240 Speaker 1: so because some people may do it. And then in Indonesia, 1098 01:07:41,800 --> 01:07:46,560 Speaker 1: uh yeah, I heard quite a lot of people who 1099 01:07:47,320 --> 01:07:52,800 Speaker 1: you know who has a different kind of Yeah, you 1100 01:07:52,880 --> 01:07:55,200 Speaker 1: can look it up on the internet too. There are 1101 01:07:55,240 --> 01:08:00,160 Speaker 1: people who claim it another thing. Why why it's sort 1102 01:08:00,200 --> 01:08:06,160 Speaker 1: of confirm this theory because my this is my own sibling, 1103 01:08:06,560 --> 01:08:12,000 Speaker 1: my own sister. Yeah, at the time, she was still 1104 01:08:12,120 --> 01:08:18,519 Speaker 1: married to her husband, and there's excellently Oh well, at 1105 01:08:18,560 --> 01:08:22,600 Speaker 1: that time, he thought it was her husband came to 1106 01:08:22,840 --> 01:08:30,080 Speaker 1: the room, and she knows that her husband's still out there. Um, okay, 1107 01:08:30,240 --> 01:08:35,080 Speaker 1: I have chills again. What that's that's that's that's what 1108 01:08:36,120 --> 01:08:39,200 Speaker 1: you know. So somebody came into her bedroom and it 1109 01:08:39,320 --> 01:08:43,720 Speaker 1: looked like her husband, but she knew her husband. And 1110 01:08:43,800 --> 01:08:47,160 Speaker 1: then what happened, Well, because she knew, of course, you know, 1111 01:08:47,760 --> 01:08:53,280 Speaker 1: she she automatically sort of we call it, uh, what 1112 01:08:53,479 --> 01:08:58,840 Speaker 1: is it? This must be a gene immitate. Yeah, because 1113 01:08:58,960 --> 01:09:01,560 Speaker 1: they can't many feel then shift into different you know, 1114 01:09:02,600 --> 01:09:08,400 Speaker 1: different shape, they wont being being an energy. So yeah, 1115 01:09:09,160 --> 01:09:11,599 Speaker 1: she was able to get rid of it. Oh yes, yeah, 1116 01:09:11,640 --> 01:09:15,720 Speaker 1: because she knows. Yeah, yeah, so ANSA at the I 1117 01:09:15,880 --> 01:09:20,479 Speaker 1: really hope that we can have another another conversation, maybe 1118 01:09:20,560 --> 01:09:22,080 Speaker 1: in a few months, and have you guys back on 1119 01:09:22,160 --> 01:09:24,240 Speaker 1: because I have so many more questions and I bet 1120 01:09:24,320 --> 01:09:26,000 Speaker 1: you our listeners when we have questions. So if you 1121 01:09:26,040 --> 01:09:27,880 Speaker 1: guys are open to it, would you guys be willing 1122 01:09:27,920 --> 01:09:31,519 Speaker 1: to come back for another chat? Later, I think that 1123 01:09:32,479 --> 01:09:35,280 Speaker 1: this than either. So here we have more stories than 1124 01:09:35,320 --> 01:09:37,240 Speaker 1: I will. But I totally get it. But Lisa, at 1125 01:09:37,240 --> 01:09:38,880 Speaker 1: the beginning, at the top of our interview, you did 1126 01:09:38,920 --> 01:09:42,719 Speaker 1: say you had a story to share, didn't you say that? Yeah? 1127 01:09:43,000 --> 01:09:45,840 Speaker 1: Oh my go to story. Yeah, let's hear the go 1128 01:09:46,000 --> 01:09:49,040 Speaker 1: to story. Um. Well, actually Dad was there when this happened, 1129 01:09:49,080 --> 01:09:51,519 Speaker 1: So maybe that's why it happened, because he was there, 1130 01:09:51,560 --> 01:09:55,080 Speaker 1: because nothing's ever happened and I'm by myself. Um, but 1131 01:09:55,320 --> 01:09:57,600 Speaker 1: this is in my parents house when we just moved in. 1132 01:09:59,400 --> 01:10:00,880 Speaker 1: I think we'd been in there maybe for about a 1133 01:10:00,960 --> 01:10:03,679 Speaker 1: week or so, and Dad and I were just sitting 1134 01:10:03,720 --> 01:10:06,800 Speaker 1: in the living room watching TV one night, maybe around 1135 01:10:06,880 --> 01:10:08,559 Speaker 1: nine or nine thirty, and it was just the two 1136 01:10:08,600 --> 01:10:11,560 Speaker 1: of us in the living room and we have this 1137 01:10:12,520 --> 01:10:15,240 Speaker 1: glass these glass doors in the living room that lead 1138 01:10:15,280 --> 01:10:20,120 Speaker 1: out to the backyard. Um, so you can see outside. 1139 01:10:20,479 --> 01:10:23,080 Speaker 1: We had the light on, the blinds were still up 1140 01:10:23,120 --> 01:10:25,840 Speaker 1: so you could still see outside that there was nothing there, 1141 01:10:25,920 --> 01:10:28,680 Speaker 1: no one there. And just all of a sudden, the 1142 01:10:28,840 --> 01:10:32,080 Speaker 1: doors started shaking like someone was trying to open the 1143 01:10:32,160 --> 01:10:35,639 Speaker 1: door but couldn't because it was locked. And this went 1144 01:10:35,760 --> 01:10:38,519 Speaker 1: on and there wasn't an earthquake happening. No, no, because 1145 01:10:39,000 --> 01:10:43,000 Speaker 1: in Indonesia we get earthquakes, um, and you know what 1146 01:10:43,160 --> 01:10:47,360 Speaker 1: they feel like, the you feel, you feel the earth move, 1147 01:10:47,479 --> 01:10:49,599 Speaker 1: you feel whatever you're sitting on or lying on move. 1148 01:10:49,720 --> 01:10:51,600 Speaker 1: This was we were just sitting there and it was 1149 01:10:51,680 --> 01:10:54,280 Speaker 1: just the sound and the movement of the doors shaking. 1150 01:10:54,760 --> 01:10:56,880 Speaker 1: And both of you saw this happen. And yeah, we 1151 01:10:57,000 --> 01:10:59,160 Speaker 1: both heard it because it was quite. It was loud. 1152 01:10:59,240 --> 01:11:01,360 Speaker 1: It wasn't just like a little rattling. It was like 1153 01:11:01,439 --> 01:11:03,479 Speaker 1: a proper like you know, let me in, that kind 1154 01:11:03,520 --> 01:11:07,200 Speaker 1: of shaking of a door. And this is like the 1155 01:11:07,400 --> 01:11:09,519 Speaker 1: first and only thing that's ever happened to me that's 1156 01:11:09,600 --> 01:11:12,400 Speaker 1: related to this. And I just kind of looked at it, 1157 01:11:12,600 --> 01:11:15,000 Speaker 1: and I looked at Dad, waiting for him to give 1158 01:11:15,040 --> 01:11:19,040 Speaker 1: an explanation. He didn't. He was just like whatever. And 1159 01:11:19,160 --> 01:11:21,160 Speaker 1: I was like, I can't even remember what I said. 1160 01:11:21,320 --> 01:11:23,240 Speaker 1: If I said what was that? I think I probably 1161 01:11:23,280 --> 01:11:26,040 Speaker 1: said what was that? And then just got creeped out. Um. 1162 01:11:27,160 --> 01:11:30,439 Speaker 1: And then this, this is related to something about in 1163 01:11:30,520 --> 01:11:34,559 Speaker 1: Indonesia when you when you go into new spaces, um, 1164 01:11:36,400 --> 01:11:40,200 Speaker 1: places that are unfamiliar that you sort of then the 1165 01:11:40,320 --> 01:11:43,400 Speaker 1: different the belief is different. Depending on if you're religious 1166 01:11:43,439 --> 01:11:45,639 Speaker 1: or not. If if you're not religious, you might think 1167 01:11:45,680 --> 01:11:49,400 Speaker 1: you're asking permission from the being or the gin too 1168 01:11:50,240 --> 01:11:53,200 Speaker 1: passed by, or to live there. If you're a Muslim, 1169 01:11:53,240 --> 01:11:57,360 Speaker 1: you might be just sort of not asking permission, but 1170 01:11:57,520 --> 01:12:01,000 Speaker 1: rather introducing yourself and say, hey, I live here now, 1171 01:12:01,080 --> 01:12:03,360 Speaker 1: and let's sort of get along kind of thing. So 1172 01:12:04,000 --> 01:12:07,120 Speaker 1: my interpretation is that because we were newly moved in, 1173 01:12:07,280 --> 01:12:10,160 Speaker 1: and maybe we hadn't no one had said hi, were 1174 01:12:10,200 --> 01:12:12,559 Speaker 1: then you the new people who live in this house, 1175 01:12:12,800 --> 01:12:14,479 Speaker 1: You're going to have to live with us. Yeah, the 1176 01:12:14,560 --> 01:12:16,760 Speaker 1: gene was kind of like, hey, I'm here, can you 1177 01:12:16,920 --> 01:12:19,320 Speaker 1: sort of introduce yourself or something. I don't know, maybe 1178 01:12:19,360 --> 01:12:21,760 Speaker 1: it was something like that, but maybe Dad we've talked 1179 01:12:21,760 --> 01:12:24,120 Speaker 1: about this, but I've never actually asked Dad what his 1180 01:12:24,280 --> 01:12:27,400 Speaker 1: interpretation of that event was, or if you notice anything, 1181 01:12:27,439 --> 01:12:33,799 Speaker 1: do you remember that night? Because uh, it always happened 1182 01:12:33,800 --> 01:12:37,920 Speaker 1: to a new person who came to our house, because 1183 01:12:38,000 --> 01:12:42,479 Speaker 1: it because one once we were the whole family went 1184 01:12:42,520 --> 01:12:49,320 Speaker 1: to Australia. So I asked the uh, uh, what you 1185 01:12:49,439 --> 01:12:54,920 Speaker 1: call it? A person that I know to stay there 1186 01:12:55,520 --> 01:12:58,120 Speaker 1: in the house to look after a while in Australia. 1187 01:12:58,680 --> 01:13:01,479 Speaker 1: So that's actually what happened to him. He said, I 1188 01:13:01,600 --> 01:13:04,360 Speaker 1: was I was sleeping in, you know, in in the 1189 01:13:04,520 --> 01:13:07,040 Speaker 1: TV room. You know, it was suddenly it's just like 1190 01:13:07,200 --> 01:13:11,760 Speaker 1: someone started to get in, you know, shaking the glass door, 1191 01:13:12,280 --> 01:13:16,080 Speaker 1: and I was so scared? Is it? So I said, well, 1192 01:13:16,200 --> 01:13:19,519 Speaker 1: you know, because because you were new. They answered, maybe 1193 01:13:20,320 --> 01:13:24,800 Speaker 1: maybe they can't take it. Didn't really know who you are, 1194 01:13:25,880 --> 01:13:29,919 Speaker 1: so try to get you it. Maybe maybe the guardian 1195 01:13:30,000 --> 01:13:38,360 Speaker 1: Jim thought, this person is like trespassing exactly. Wow. Well, um, 1196 01:13:38,560 --> 01:13:40,200 Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to wrap up, but I want to 1197 01:13:40,200 --> 01:13:44,240 Speaker 1: ask you one last question. Um, and again, please please, 1198 01:13:44,240 --> 01:13:45,679 Speaker 1: I would love to have you guys back on because 1199 01:13:45,760 --> 01:13:47,960 Speaker 1: especially I have so many more I only hear all 1200 01:13:47,960 --> 01:13:51,240 Speaker 1: your stories. But let me see this. Where does your 1201 01:13:51,320 --> 01:13:54,200 Speaker 1: very first episode for Arcapela Ghost was with your father 1202 01:13:54,439 --> 01:13:56,600 Speaker 1: talking about gin and I and I saw that you 1203 01:13:56,800 --> 01:13:58,760 Speaker 1: you said an email to me that that was he 1204 01:13:58,800 --> 01:14:01,880 Speaker 1: had suggested that topic. And now I understand why because 1205 01:14:01,920 --> 01:14:04,920 Speaker 1: he knows all about it. What other things are you like? 1206 01:14:05,040 --> 01:14:07,000 Speaker 1: What other kinds of entities? Because you know, I happen 1207 01:14:07,040 --> 01:14:10,200 Speaker 1: to be I happen to be that that like raised 1208 01:14:10,240 --> 01:14:12,360 Speaker 1: in a way, it's like anything unexplained Oh, it's this 1209 01:14:12,479 --> 01:14:15,160 Speaker 1: old gin, right, it's a oldgin. So but what what 1210 01:14:15,280 --> 01:14:17,559 Speaker 1: other kind of beliefs and things are gonna be talking 1211 01:14:17,600 --> 01:14:21,920 Speaker 1: about in future episodes? Um? So Yeah, like as as 1212 01:14:21,960 --> 01:14:25,519 Speaker 1: a Muslim, yeah, you believe all these different manifestations or 1213 01:14:25,600 --> 01:14:28,960 Speaker 1: basically lead back to Gin. But if if you're not 1214 01:14:29,040 --> 01:14:32,240 Speaker 1: a Muslim, or if you maybe not a completely believing 1215 01:14:32,360 --> 01:14:36,040 Speaker 1: or um practicing one, you think that they're all separate things. 1216 01:14:36,160 --> 01:14:40,600 Speaker 1: So um for example, like episode two is um I 1217 01:14:40,720 --> 01:14:43,200 Speaker 1: call it a legend, but some people also call her 1218 01:14:43,240 --> 01:14:47,360 Speaker 1: a gin queen. Her name is near Kid and she's 1219 01:14:47,400 --> 01:14:49,800 Speaker 1: called the Queen of the South Sea, and she's supposedly 1220 01:14:49,880 --> 01:14:53,160 Speaker 1: the queen of a kingdom in um the Sudden Sea 1221 01:14:53,240 --> 01:14:58,799 Speaker 1: of Java. Uh and yeah there's um one of amazing 1222 01:14:59,000 --> 01:15:03,479 Speaker 1: is that? Is that a so too? That's episode two? Okay, 1223 01:15:04,200 --> 01:15:07,360 Speaker 1: she's very interesting. Um. And then we've got episode three 1224 01:15:07,479 --> 01:15:11,080 Speaker 1: talking about actual possessions, which is also another thing that's 1225 01:15:11,200 --> 01:15:13,720 Speaker 1: very common in Indonesia. You can talk about someone being 1226 01:15:13,760 --> 01:15:17,200 Speaker 1: possessed as casually as someone getting a new job. For example, 1227 01:15:17,320 --> 01:15:19,559 Speaker 1: Like people will ask questions, but they won't be very 1228 01:15:19,600 --> 01:15:22,280 Speaker 1: surprised if you tell someone that you know they know 1229 01:15:22,439 --> 01:15:25,200 Speaker 1: someone who was possessed. Um. Yeah, there's a whole bunch 1230 01:15:25,240 --> 01:15:29,840 Speaker 1: of other different beings and shapes. There's one of the 1231 01:15:29,880 --> 01:15:32,040 Speaker 1: episodes that we're going to do. I'm going to talk 1232 01:15:32,080 --> 01:15:35,240 Speaker 1: about the Big Three, which is the most famous or 1233 01:15:35,320 --> 01:15:41,040 Speaker 1: most well known of Indonesia's supernatural beings. Um. And one 1234 01:15:41,160 --> 01:15:44,639 Speaker 1: is aunt, which is the typical Asian black, long hair, 1235 01:15:44,880 --> 01:15:48,759 Speaker 1: white dress, that kind of image, um, like the wronged 1236 01:15:48,840 --> 01:15:52,160 Speaker 1: woman kind of thing. And then yeah, and then one 1237 01:15:52,280 --> 01:15:54,599 Speaker 1: is a Potchong, which you might be familiar with when 1238 01:15:54,680 --> 01:15:56,560 Speaker 1: I tell you, But basically a pot young is in 1239 01:15:56,640 --> 01:15:58,960 Speaker 1: the form of when a Muslim is buried, how they're 1240 01:15:58,960 --> 01:16:01,400 Speaker 1: wrapped in the white often then you have the ties 1241 01:16:02,960 --> 01:16:05,800 Speaker 1: around I think the neck and the feet and the 1242 01:16:05,840 --> 01:16:09,880 Speaker 1: waist and something like that. That's that's an actual being 1243 01:16:10,840 --> 01:16:13,719 Speaker 1: that's quite well known. It appears like that. It appears 1244 01:16:13,760 --> 01:16:16,240 Speaker 1: like that, and it's it's quite funny because because it's 1245 01:16:16,280 --> 01:16:19,360 Speaker 1: still tied up, they can only get around by jumping, 1246 01:16:19,760 --> 01:16:24,240 Speaker 1: so it's not very bad. Takes away to terrifying a 1247 01:16:24,280 --> 01:16:26,679 Speaker 1: little bit. And then the last one of the Big 1248 01:16:26,760 --> 01:16:29,680 Speaker 1: Three is um. This one actually could be related quite 1249 01:16:29,720 --> 01:16:32,519 Speaker 1: well to Gin. This one's called a Thuyo. It's the 1250 01:16:32,720 --> 01:16:34,519 Speaker 1: in the in the form of like a little a 1251 01:16:34,560 --> 01:16:39,680 Speaker 1: little kid that's baled, and they can be um. They 1252 01:16:39,720 --> 01:16:42,720 Speaker 1: can be sort of I guess, looked after like a pet, 1253 01:16:42,800 --> 01:16:45,439 Speaker 1: and they do your bidding. And usually they're used by 1254 01:16:46,360 --> 01:16:48,840 Speaker 1: people called dukun, which is like a shaman or a 1255 01:16:48,880 --> 01:16:53,800 Speaker 1: black magic practitioner. They own Duo, they own Thuyo sorry, 1256 01:16:53,880 --> 01:16:56,600 Speaker 1: these little beings, and they can be told to go 1257 01:16:56,720 --> 01:16:59,920 Speaker 1: to people's houses and steal money for them. It's something bubble. 1258 01:17:00,040 --> 01:17:02,280 Speaker 1: It's kind of like, yeah, like a little bit um. 1259 01:17:02,360 --> 01:17:04,639 Speaker 1: I think my my sister talks about a story where 1260 01:17:04,720 --> 01:17:07,200 Speaker 1: she sort of said, because this is my sister, she 1261 01:17:07,400 --> 01:17:09,599 Speaker 1: saw something when she was younger, and we think maybe 1262 01:17:09,680 --> 01:17:11,320 Speaker 1: she saw it though you and she said it looked 1263 01:17:11,360 --> 01:17:14,280 Speaker 1: like a like Dobby from Harry Potter. There you go. Yeah, 1264 01:17:15,479 --> 01:17:17,439 Speaker 1: but um yeah, so if you sort of because there 1265 01:17:17,479 --> 01:17:20,960 Speaker 1: are these gin's that you can, like you talked about before, 1266 01:17:21,000 --> 01:17:25,640 Speaker 1: the transactional idea of if you ask for something from 1267 01:17:25,680 --> 01:17:27,360 Speaker 1: a gin, that gin will want something back to you. 1268 01:17:27,479 --> 01:17:29,560 Speaker 1: So the idea with these tool there the shape of 1269 01:17:29,600 --> 01:17:32,680 Speaker 1: a little kid um, you actually have to like give 1270 01:17:32,720 --> 01:17:35,120 Speaker 1: them toys and give them food. And apparently there's one 1271 01:17:36,000 --> 01:17:39,240 Speaker 1: belief where you have to breastfeed them, which is really gross. 1272 01:17:39,400 --> 01:17:42,280 Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. Yeah, but then they will go to 1273 01:17:42,360 --> 01:17:45,320 Speaker 1: people's houses and steal money and jewelry and stuff for you. 1274 01:17:45,600 --> 01:17:47,880 Speaker 1: So I might have more questions about the breastfitting one. Um, 1275 01:17:47,920 --> 01:17:51,479 Speaker 1: but I also go back to that, don't you have 1276 01:17:51,560 --> 01:17:53,840 Speaker 1: to be lactating to do? Okay? Well, anyway, I'm getting 1277 01:17:53,840 --> 01:17:58,040 Speaker 1: too technical here. Um, well so you okay, So where 1278 01:17:58,120 --> 01:18:00,400 Speaker 1: can listeners find your podcast? I must I think it's 1279 01:18:00,439 --> 01:18:03,160 Speaker 1: on most of most of the most apps. Yeah, it's 1280 01:18:03,320 --> 01:18:08,640 Speaker 1: It's definitely on iTunes and Google Spotify, Um, it's And 1281 01:18:08,760 --> 01:18:11,280 Speaker 1: then you can just listen straight on out and our website, 1282 01:18:11,320 --> 01:18:13,519 Speaker 1: which is a capella ghosts with an S at the 1283 01:18:13,640 --> 01:18:19,800 Speaker 1: end dot com. I hope you enjoyed that conversation as 1284 01:18:19,920 --> 01:18:22,800 Speaker 1: much as I did. Now there are as many people 1285 01:18:22,920 --> 01:18:25,479 Speaker 1: in the world with Jin stories as there are gin, 1286 01:18:26,120 --> 01:18:28,320 Speaker 1: so if you have one you'd like to share, make 1287 01:18:28,360 --> 01:18:30,920 Speaker 1: sure to email it to me at the Hidden Gin 1288 01:18:31,200 --> 01:18:34,840 Speaker 1: at gmail dot com. That's the Hidden Gin. Th H 1289 01:18:34,960 --> 01:18:38,280 Speaker 1: E H I D D N d J I n 1290 01:18:38,479 --> 01:18:42,280 Speaker 1: N at gmail dot com. And until next time, remember 1291 01:18:42,920 --> 01:18:53,160 Speaker 1: we are not alone. The Hidden Gin is a production 1292 01:18:53,240 --> 01:18:56,400 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio and Grimm and mild from Aaron Mankey. 1293 01:18:57,160 --> 01:19:00,400 Speaker 1: The podcast is written and hosted by Robbia Chaudre and 1294 01:19:00,479 --> 01:19:04,839 Speaker 1: produced by Miranda Hawkins and Trevor Young, with executive producers 1295 01:19:04,880 --> 01:19:09,360 Speaker 1: Aaron Mankey, Alex Williams, and Matt Frederick. Our theme song 1296 01:19:09,560 --> 01:19:13,160 Speaker 1: was created by Patrick Quartets. For more podcasts from I 1297 01:19:13,320 --> 01:19:17,400 Speaker 1: Heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 1298 01:19:17,880 --> 01:19:19,480 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.