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Speaker 1: Hey there, folks.

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Speaker 2: It is Tuesday, February seventeenth, and keep hope alive. We

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Speaker 2: are just getting word as we come on this morning,

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Speaker 2: that Reverend Jesse Jackson, civil rights icon, has passed away

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Speaker 2: at the age of eighty four. Welcome to this episode

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Speaker 2: of Amy and TJ. Recording this one a little early.

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Speaker 2: We are early risers, and when we first got up

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Speaker 2: at three four am, we didn't see this news. But

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Speaker 2: it just did break a short time ago, and we

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Speaker 2: wanted to hop on and give you the update.

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Speaker 1: But ropes just first reaction.

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Speaker 2: When you hear Reverend Jesse Jackson has passed away at

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Speaker 2: eighty four.

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Speaker 3: I mean it sounds almost cliche to say the passing

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Speaker 3: of a legend, but a civil rights icon, a change agent,

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Speaker 3: someone who fought for justice in the face of incredible

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Speaker 3: adversity and fear. I would add, yes, all of the above,

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Speaker 3: A game changer in the civil rights movement.

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Speaker 2: Yes, And so officially we don't know the official cause

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Speaker 2: of death. They haven't said this morning, but we did

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Speaker 2: get an extended statement from his family. We know he

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Speaker 2: had had some health issues, various and serious over the

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Speaker 2: past several years, but we do want to share the

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Speaker 2: statement put out came through his organization, but sass some

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Speaker 2: specific words in here, and it was kind of nice

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Speaker 2: to hear.

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Speaker 1: I always loved to hear in.

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Speaker 2: These statements when you hear that they died surrounded by family.

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Speaker 3: Yes, that's isn't that the goal for all of us?

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Speaker 3: At least I think it would be so. Yes, The

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Speaker 3: family statement reads, he died peacefully on Tuesday.

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Speaker 4: Morning, surrounded by his family.

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Speaker 3: His unwavering commitment to justice, equality and human rights help

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Speaker 3: shape a global movement for freedom and dignity. They said

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Speaker 3: that our father was a servant leader, not only to

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Speaker 3: our family, but to the oppressed, the voiceless, and the

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Speaker 3: overlooked around the world. We shared him with the world,

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Speaker 3: and in return, the world became part of our extended family.

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Speaker 3: His unwavering belief injustice, equality and love uplifted millions, and

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Speaker 3: we ask you to honor his memory by continuing the

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Speaker 3: fight for the values he lived by.

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Speaker 2: That's beautiful, yeah, and it's Look, he hasn't been out there,

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Speaker 2: he hasn't been as active because of his health, but

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Speaker 2: he has been a part of national politics in this

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Speaker 2: country essentially since I was born and really got involved

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Speaker 2: and became very mainstream. I guess in the eighties with

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Speaker 2: his two presidential campaigns, we forget before Barack Obama, Jesse

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Speaker 2: Jackson was legit. Now he was legit, not just some

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Speaker 2: fringe character doing this or that. He was a candidate

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Speaker 2: that forced everybody to pay attention and is considered ropes.

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Speaker 2: The first legitimate all loved to Cheirley Chisholm, but the

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Speaker 2: first major party candidate who had a legitimid shot and

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Speaker 2: he actually did well in those primaries.

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Speaker 3: Oh, yes, we were, we were coming up during those years.

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Speaker 3: Jesse Jackson. He rose to incredible political prominence. And I

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Speaker 3: was actually surprised because obviously we were kids while he

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Speaker 3: was running for president. But to hear that he won

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Speaker 3: in his first races is in nineteen eighty four more

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Speaker 3: than eighteen percent of the primary vote, and then four

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Speaker 3: years later he won eleven.

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Speaker 4: Primaries and caucuses. That is significant.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but tons of candidates are in these races and

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Speaker 2: don't do that. But this was a major party black

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Speaker 2: candidate who in those back to back races you're talking,

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Speaker 2: he picked up twenty percent of the primary vote and

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Speaker 2: then thirty percent the next time around. He forced other candidates,

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Speaker 2: obviously non minority candidates who pay attention to him because

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Speaker 2: he had a stronghold in the black community. Black folks

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Speaker 2: were listening to him, liked him, supported him, trusted him,

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Speaker 2: and they said, wait a minute, he is actually getting

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Speaker 2: the votes we need to win. And he became a

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Speaker 2: player in that way. And I think, ever to when

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Speaker 2: you go back and think about eighty four to eighty eight,

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Speaker 2: it explains two thousand and eight crying like a baby

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Speaker 2: after Barack Obama had won in Chicago.

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Speaker 1: That's where that came from. His history paid.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, he paved the way. He paved the way.

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Speaker 3: If it weren't for his hard work, Barack Obama would

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Speaker 3: not have become president.

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Speaker 4: Barack Obama.

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Speaker 2: Obviously, Barack Obama knows that and understands that. But you

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Speaker 2: go back Robes and Plinny will remember, I guess he

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Speaker 2: was treated. He had been treated for Parkinson's a couple

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Speaker 2: of years before he actually made the public revelation. That

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Speaker 2: was in twenty seventeen. I believe it was the end

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Speaker 2: of that. I don't remember what some complicated issue.

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Speaker 1: He was hospitalized last year? What was that?

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Speaker 3: Yes, he was, he was hospitalized last year. And he

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Speaker 3: actually has a condition that sounds horrific. It's called it's

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Speaker 3: got an acronym. It is called I just wrote it down.

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Speaker 2: In addition to that, he also, as you're looking for

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Speaker 2: that, that hospitalization, but he had he dealt with COVID as well,

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Speaker 2: right going through the midst of all this, and that

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Speaker 2: was a tough goal he had.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, he had.

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Speaker 3: It's called PSP, which is called progressive super nuclear palsy,

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Speaker 3: and it affects your ability to walk and to swallow.

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Speaker 3: I was reading about it just thinking that has that

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Speaker 3: has got to be one of the more difficult ways

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Speaker 3: to suffer as you are fighting other illnesses Parkinson's on

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Speaker 3: top of that that that is a tough road. But

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Speaker 3: he was a fighter through and through in so many

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Speaker 3: ways in his life. But he was fighting till the

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Speaker 3: very end physically for his health.

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Speaker 2: And I hadn't seen him in many, many years. But

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Speaker 2: the last time I saw him with some event. Why

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Speaker 2: do I think it was at the Museum of Modern

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Speaker 2: History or the dinosaurs and all that. Yes, yes, sometimes

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Speaker 2: I think it was there, But it was just he

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Speaker 2: was a shell of this guy who I have known

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Speaker 2: got shit for decades now and dealing with in the industry.

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Speaker 1: But he was just he was just weak. He couldn't

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Speaker 1: remember a lot.

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Speaker 2: He still physically looked like because he's kind of an imposing,

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Speaker 2: towering big guy. Still looked the same, but he sat.

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Speaker 2: He just wasn't that Jesse Jackson was not there, and

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Speaker 2: it was tough. It was tough to see. But you

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Speaker 2: go back. This guy they called the son of South Carolina, right,

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Speaker 2: he was from Greenville, but he grew up in the South,

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Speaker 2: the Jim pro South, and he was molded by a

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Speaker 2: lot of that. Went to college, became an activist and

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Speaker 2: joined Martin Luther King's movement Southern Christian Leadership Conference, and

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Speaker 2: took off from there. Became an officer, one of the

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Speaker 2: youngest officials they had, and got King's attention and was

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Speaker 2: absolutely a King protege.

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Speaker 3: And he was there with him in Memphis when King

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Speaker 3: was assassinated, right there, and wasn't deterred.

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Speaker 4: Can you, I mean, I just was.

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Speaker 3: You go through this movement, you feel the change that

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Speaker 3: you're a part of, and then MLK Junior is assassinated

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Speaker 3: right in front of you. A lot of people would cower,

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Speaker 3: a lot of people would say hell no. He pushed

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Speaker 3: on and went even further and took the movement further.

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Speaker 2: And there were some who criticized him to this day

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Speaker 2: for like the only thing that his heart was always

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Speaker 2: in the right place, and sometimes the ego got in

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Speaker 2: the way of the heart because he did. He was

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Speaker 2: an ambitious guy and he wanted to be the guy.

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Speaker 2: These guys will tell you this, and the criticism is

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Speaker 2: public and it's out there, for they say that's one

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Speaker 2: thing that got in his way is that he just

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Speaker 2: wanted it too badly, like he was putting himself at

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Speaker 2: the forefront. I'm now going to be the leader. And

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Speaker 2: I had a civil rights leader tell me once the

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Speaker 2: problem with Jesse is that he would have just relaxed.

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Speaker 2: The people would have chosen him. He was too much

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Speaker 2: in a hurry to just be the man. He wanted

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Speaker 2: it too badly and forced himself onto it. He was

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Speaker 2: perfectly positioned. They would have chosen him anyway, but he

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Speaker 2: just forced his hand. I actually had someone tell me

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Speaker 2: that once, but it's publicly. It's been out there, but

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Speaker 2: robes too. There are pictures out there of him standing

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Speaker 2: on that balcony in the Lorraine Motel. He was, yes,

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Speaker 2: nineteen sixty eight. He was there, So I think some

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Speaker 2: people don't even realize that Jesse Jackson was not just

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Speaker 2: some guy. He wasn't just some self promoted He wasn't

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Speaker 2: just some presidential candidate.

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Speaker 1: He was an.

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Speaker 2: Og of this movement who has been there and was

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Speaker 2: right there with Doka King all this time. So we

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Speaker 2: don't have these guys anymore. Right, These are legends of

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Speaker 2: an era, our civil rights leaders.

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Speaker 1: Now. I mean, we have Black Lives Matter.

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Speaker 4: We have Al Sharpton still around.

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Speaker 2: He's still kicking, right, He's still kicking in New York.

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Speaker 2: That's the Action Network, right, and the Rainbow Push Coalition.

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Speaker 2: They were competitors to a certain degree, but also they

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Speaker 2: work together a lot.

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Speaker 4: You know, it's funny. So I told you this.

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Speaker 3: My very first assignment in college was to go to

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Speaker 3: a Rainbow Push Coalition march in Atlanta, and that is

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Speaker 3: where I met Jesse Jackson, who was so kind, and

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Speaker 3: Al Sharpton together, first time, little white reporter from w

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Speaker 3: uog Athen TV and I'm going over there, and they

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Speaker 3: were both so kind, and it was just I was

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Speaker 3: in awe that I was talking.

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Speaker 4: That was my first two interviews as a journalist.

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Speaker 2: Well stay here, folks, you are going to hear how

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Speaker 2: the rest of Robot's experience with Reverend Jesse Jackson WYNT,

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Speaker 2: and I'll also share some of my favorite moments with

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Speaker 2: this icon over the years.

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Speaker 1: To hear.

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Speaker 2: All right, we continue here on Amy and TJ with

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Speaker 2: the word just coming really moments before we hopped on

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Speaker 2: and started recording that Reverend Jesse Jackson has passed away

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Speaker 2: at the age of eighty four. Civil rights icon, two

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Speaker 2: time presidential candidate, and one of the most influential figures

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Speaker 2: in politics and civil rights era. They just don't make

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Speaker 2: them like this anymore. Rope to think about him. I

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Speaker 2: think about Sharpton, I think about Ambassador Young actuals we

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Speaker 2: already lost John Lewis. These are just guys I was

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Speaker 2: around in Atlanta. They don't necessarily take you under their wing,

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Speaker 2: but you're forced to pay attention and learn under their wing.

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Speaker 2: It's Atlanta is a cool place in that regard for

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Speaker 2: a young black man coming in you. You cannot come

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Speaker 2: in there with an ego or think you're anything or

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Speaker 2: anything special, because them dudes will put you in check

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Speaker 2: so fast. They don't have to get in your face.

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Speaker 2: You just how am I as a twenty eight twenty

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Speaker 2: nine year old seeing an anchor coming down.

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Speaker 1: I'm the man in Atlanta.

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Speaker 2: You get in a room with John Lewis, you, you

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Speaker 2: sit down, you cowerd and you yes, sir, very quickly.

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Speaker 2: So they were very and to your what you were

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Speaker 2: just saying, they're robes. They are It's almost you can't

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Speaker 2: separate these guys. You said the first time you ever

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Speaker 2: ran Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpner was right there.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, no, it's true.

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Speaker 3: And it's funny because the first person I ran into

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Speaker 3: obviously my dream, and I didn't think it was even

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Speaker 3: possible to get to interview Reverend Jackson. But I saw

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Speaker 3: this cute couple yelling boot Newt, Boot Newt because they

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Speaker 3: were upset about Newt Gingrid Chess or the house at

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Speaker 3: the time.

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Speaker 4: And uh, I said, I really. I said, hey, can

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Speaker 4: I interview you too?

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Speaker 3: And he looked at me and he smiled and said,

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Speaker 3: I bet you'd rather interview my dad. And I was

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Speaker 3: like huh, And I was like, no, I actually just

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Speaker 3: want to interview you too. I had no idea who

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Speaker 3: it was. And he said, you sure you don't want

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Speaker 3: to interview my dad? And I said, yeah, I'm pretty sure.

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Speaker 3: I just want to interview you.

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Speaker 4: He's like okay, And I said, can I get your

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Speaker 4: name and how to spell it?

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Speaker 3: He went, sure, Jesse Jackson Junior, I don't think you

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Speaker 3: need me to spell it? And I bet you want

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Speaker 3: me to go get my dad now.

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Speaker 4: And he did. He walked over, he brought Jesse over

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Speaker 4: and he had it was my I remember my face

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Speaker 4: turned bright red.

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Speaker 3: And then Jesse came over and Jesse Jackson came over

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Speaker 3: and Al Sharpton was right there with him, and I

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Speaker 3: got the two interviews right back to back, and they.

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Speaker 4: Were so kind.

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Speaker 3: They're like, what's your name? Who are you reporting from? Like,

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Speaker 3: they were so kind, took so much time. I was

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Speaker 3: this silly little twenty one year old Athens were your reporter,

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Speaker 3: and they were so great and that was such a

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Speaker 3: memorable moment.

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Speaker 4: Those are my first two official interviews he did.

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Speaker 2: He had a warmth, a kindness, but an intensity and

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Speaker 2: everything he did he was I don't remember too many laughs.

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Speaker 2: I shared with him over the interesting like crazy, but

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Speaker 2: everybody has. There was a line I often use and

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Speaker 2: post folks heard me quote and again, this is someone

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Speaker 2: just in what we do robes. I've been with him

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Speaker 2: countless occasion, countless hours over the years, including a trip

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Speaker 2: to Tanzania with him for a for a week long

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Speaker 2: summit out there. I'll speak on that and saying, but Rope,

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Speaker 2: you've heard me say this line before. Jesse's action is

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Speaker 2: the one that told me that the only reason that

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Speaker 2: black folks excel in sports is not because we're bigger,

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Speaker 2: not because we're stronger, not because we're faster. He said,

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Speaker 2: it's the one place where everybody has to play by

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Speaker 2: the same rules. Wow, he said, you got a referee

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Speaker 2: out there making sure that everybody you and you have

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Speaker 2: to play by the exact same rules. And see what

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Speaker 2: happens when you put black folks in a position to

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Speaker 2: where they have an even playing field, we could actually excel.

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Speaker 1: He told me that in Chicago at a Rainbow Push

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Speaker 1: Coalition office.

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Speaker 2: To this day, I've never forgotten it because you look

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Speaker 2: at I've gone through so many things in life and

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Speaker 2: offices and then whatever, all these stories, But what happens

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Speaker 2: if you even the playing.

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Speaker 1: Field for black folks, we excel.

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Speaker 2: And that story stuck with me forever, And I'm sure

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Speaker 2: I was annoying as hell to him on that trip

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Speaker 2: to Africa.

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Speaker 3: You're not annoying, Oh no, no, no, no, you were asking him

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Speaker 3: tons of questions.

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Speaker 2: How long is the flight from Atlanta to Arusha, Tanzania.

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Speaker 4: I'm gonna go with at least seventeen hours.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I'm twenty nine thirty sitting in business class with

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Speaker 2: Reverend Jesse Jackson a roll over.

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Speaker 1: I was annoying as hell.

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Speaker 2: Hey, Acau, I was just so excited to be around

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Speaker 2: this dude, and he could not get.

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Speaker 1: Away from me.

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Speaker 5: He was stuck on a plane with you. You didn't

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Speaker 5: have to chase him down, and so we spent a week.

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Speaker 5: That was just one of a number of wonderful, really

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Speaker 5: memories over the years, and it was for the most

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Speaker 5: part for me, Robes. I'm a black man from the South.

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Speaker 5: I know who what Jesse Jackson represents.

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Speaker 2: And just to have the opportunities I had over the

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Speaker 2: years to be with him Marv just treasures.

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Speaker 1: They're absolute treasures.

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Speaker 2: He was funny, he was warm, he was intense, but

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Speaker 2: you always felt like you had to be You had

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Speaker 2: to be on your game, like you always like, I

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Speaker 2: don't want him to see me not behaving the right way.

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Speaker 4: He was intentional, always, always.

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Speaker 2: That same trip to Africa, he made me get up

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Speaker 2: and donate one thousand dollars. Him and rim and Sharp,

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Speaker 2: him and Ambassador Young were really good about They'll get

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Speaker 2: on stage just to speak, and all of a sudden

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Speaker 2: they turn into a fundraiser, put you on the spot.

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Speaker 2: He starts calling people. I'll say, right now, who wants

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Speaker 2: to give this much? Who wants to give TJ and

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Speaker 2: I had to stand up and say, okay, I have.

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Speaker 1: Some given money today.

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Speaker 4: That's the power of Reverend Jackson.

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Speaker 2: But the last one is my favorite. I'll give you

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Speaker 2: robes Detroit, NAACP Convention. I'm on a dais with the

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Speaker 2: most surreal one of the most surreal moments of my life.

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Speaker 2: I'm sitting up on a dais this program huge room,

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Speaker 2: and the podium.

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Speaker 1: Is in one spot.

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Speaker 2: And to the right of that podium, the first chair

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Speaker 2: sits Reverend Al Sharpton, the next chair sits TJ. Holmes,

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Speaker 2: the next chair sits Reverend Jesse Jackson, and the next

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Speaker 2: chair was Aretha Franklin. Wow, I'm sitting on this stage

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Speaker 2: and the highlight of the night was hearing Reverend Sharpton

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Speaker 2: and Reverend Jackson talk shit to each other across me.

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Speaker 2: They were just two dudes just talking shit like anybody

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Speaker 2: would talk shit to their boys.

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Speaker 1: And that was for me, like I.

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Speaker 2: Can't believe I goodness.

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Speaker 3: Say this, yeah that's well, or just yeah, did someone

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Speaker 3: take a picture of that?

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Speaker 4: Because I got okay, that's that should be framed.

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Speaker 2: I got tons of victors of that. But that wasn't

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Speaker 2: them talking about the movement. It wasn't them talking about history.

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Speaker 2: Is not talking about politics.

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Speaker 1: They were just a.

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Speaker 2: Couple of guys and I witnessed them just be a

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Speaker 2: couple guys giving each other hell. And so look, all

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Speaker 2: those memories are there, they come back and they just

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Speaker 2: we always say ropes. Our lives sometimes are surreal, and he,

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Speaker 2: for the two of us, added to our lives in

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Speaker 2: a very memorable way in our careers.

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Speaker 3: And we appreciate, oh my goodness, yes, And you know what,

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Speaker 3: as we talk about all that Reverend Jackson did and

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Speaker 3: accomplished and who he was as a philanthropist and a

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Speaker 3: civil rights leader, he was also a husband and a father,

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Speaker 3: and we forget that too, you know, you say, it

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Speaker 3: was interesting to hear him just kind of talk shit

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Speaker 3: and not be purposeful or intentional about the movement or

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Speaker 3: what he was doing. But he was also just a dude,

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Speaker 3: a human, you know, I mean we forget that sometimes

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Speaker 3: people of legendary status. Yes, we should mention he had

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Speaker 3: some controversies throughout He certainly did, and that fell to

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Speaker 3: his son as well. So that's what happens when you

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Speaker 3: are in the limelight. You the good, the bad, and

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Speaker 3: the ugly. We have all sides to all of us,

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Speaker 3: and some of the well, they're all very exemplified, or

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Speaker 3: at least they're put on a world stage in a

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Speaker 3: way that most people's aren't. So, yes, he had flaws,

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Speaker 3: but yes he was a human being.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to give that update today.

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Speaker 2: They did tell us Robes, they haven't given a schedule yet,

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Speaker 2: but his public memorials and whatnot will be happening in Chicago,

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Speaker 2: which the place he called home and which was the

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Speaker 2: home of the Rainbow Push Coalition all these years. But folks,

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Speaker 2: we want to hop on and give you that update.

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Speaker 2: A tough one to hear. But eighty four, even Robes

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Speaker 2: these days.

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Speaker 4: Seems young, it does, it does.

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Speaker 2: Eighty four years old civil rights icon Jesse Jackson has

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Speaker 2: passed away. We always appreciate you spending some time here

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Speaker 2: with us. Will continue to update you throughout the day

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Speaker 2: as always top right corner of your Apple Podcasts Apple

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Speaker 2: where you see our show page. Little button it says follow.

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Speaker 2: We tell you to click that so you can subscribe

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Speaker 2: because there have been a lot of news updates lately,

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Speaker 2: so we want to make sure you get them coming

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Speaker 2: to your feed, coming to your inbox, and you don't

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Speaker 2: have to go searching for them.

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Speaker 1: But we always appreciate you spending time with us. TJ.

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Speaker 1: Holmes on behalf of and they will stops