1 00:01:09,359 --> 00:01:12,439 Speaker 1: Hey to your Therapist listeners. It's Lori and Guy and 2 00:01:12,479 --> 00:01:13,599 Speaker 1: we have a quick update. 3 00:01:13,839 --> 00:01:16,039 Speaker 2: Many of you have told us that you get something 4 00:01:16,079 --> 00:01:18,439 Speaker 2: new out of each episode when you listen to it 5 00:01:18,479 --> 00:01:21,719 Speaker 2: again the second or third time. In fact, when we 6 00:01:21,839 --> 00:01:24,799 Speaker 2: listen to the episodes again, we also get takeaways we 7 00:01:24,799 --> 00:01:25,439 Speaker 2: didn't remember. 8 00:01:25,439 --> 00:01:28,079 Speaker 1: We're They're therapy is like that too. There are so 9 00:01:28,199 --> 00:01:30,839 Speaker 1: many learning moments in a session, and it's difficult to 10 00:01:30,919 --> 00:01:33,439 Speaker 1: absorb them all at once. So while we're not taping 11 00:01:33,559 --> 00:01:37,039 Speaker 1: new episodes right now, we are offering you our most 12 00:01:37,079 --> 00:01:40,399 Speaker 1: popular sessions as encores so that you can continue to 13 00:01:40,439 --> 00:01:41,519 Speaker 1: gain value from them. 14 00:01:41,759 --> 00:01:45,319 Speaker 2: We love doing the Therapists episodes, but we're each busy 15 00:01:45,359 --> 00:01:48,599 Speaker 2: with new and exciting projects that we hope you will love. 16 00:01:48,639 --> 00:01:49,239 Speaker 3: Just as much. 17 00:01:49,479 --> 00:01:52,679 Speaker 1: I have a new advice podcast called Since You Asked, 18 00:01:52,799 --> 00:01:55,159 Speaker 1: which you can get wherever you listen to podcasts. 19 00:01:55,359 --> 00:01:58,159 Speaker 2: And I have a new book coming out. It's called 20 00:01:58,559 --> 00:02:03,559 Speaker 2: Mind Overgrind, How to Break Free when work Hijacks your life, 21 00:02:03,759 --> 00:02:06,519 Speaker 2: and it will be published by Simon and Schuster. You 22 00:02:06,559 --> 00:02:08,759 Speaker 2: can find out more about it on my website. 23 00:02:10,319 --> 00:02:13,519 Speaker 1: You can learn more about these on our socials. And meanwhile, 24 00:02:13,719 --> 00:02:16,639 Speaker 1: we hope you find these Dear Therapist sessions as valuable 25 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:22,999 Speaker 1: as we have making them for you. Hey, fellow travelers, 26 00:02:23,519 --> 00:02:26,319 Speaker 1: I'm Laurie Gottlieb. I'm the author of Maybe You Should 27 00:02:26,319 --> 00:02:29,119 Speaker 1: Talk to Someone, and I write the Dear Therapist advice 28 00:02:29,119 --> 00:02:30,239 Speaker 1: column for The Atlantic. 29 00:02:30,679 --> 00:02:33,959 Speaker 3: And I'm Guy Wench. I'm the author of Emotional First Aid, 30 00:02:34,319 --> 00:02:36,799 Speaker 3: and I write the Dear Guy advice column for Ted. 31 00:02:37,199 --> 00:02:39,159 Speaker 3: And this is Dear Therapists. 32 00:02:39,879 --> 00:02:42,599 Speaker 1: Each week we invite you into a session so you 33 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:45,039 Speaker 1: can learn more about yourself by hearing how we help 34 00:02:45,119 --> 00:02:48,039 Speaker 1: other people come to understand themselves better and make changes 35 00:02:48,079 --> 00:02:48,799 Speaker 1: in their lives. 36 00:02:49,199 --> 00:02:51,879 Speaker 3: So sit back and welcome to today's session. 37 00:02:52,519 --> 00:02:55,639 Speaker 1: This week we'll get updates from last season sessions to 38 00:02:55,679 --> 00:02:59,439 Speaker 1: find out how our advice worked out. A year later, this. 39 00:02:59,559 --> 00:03:02,119 Speaker 4: Made me realize how hard I am on myself. And 40 00:03:02,159 --> 00:03:03,119 Speaker 4: I remember Laurie. 41 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:05,879 Speaker 5: And guys saying something about me not feeling like I 42 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:09,319 Speaker 5: was inherently lovable as I am, and I'm slowly beginning 43 00:03:09,399 --> 00:03:11,319 Speaker 5: to realize that I don't need to perform to be 44 00:03:11,399 --> 00:03:12,279 Speaker 5: loved first. 45 00:03:12,279 --> 00:03:15,439 Speaker 3: A quick note deo therapist is for informational purposes only, 46 00:03:15,599 --> 00:03:18,839 Speaker 3: does not constitute medical or psychological advice, and it's not 47 00:03:18,839 --> 00:03:22,919 Speaker 3: a substitute for professional healthcare advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always 48 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:25,919 Speaker 3: seek the advice of your physician, mental health professional, or 49 00:03:25,959 --> 00:03:28,639 Speaker 3: other qualified health provider with any questions you may have 50 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:32,679 Speaker 3: regarding a medical or psychological condition. By submitting a letter, 51 00:03:32,719 --> 00:03:35,319 Speaker 3: you are agreeing to let iHeartMedia use it in part 52 00:03:35,399 --> 00:03:37,159 Speaker 3: or in full, and we may edit it for length 53 00:03:37,199 --> 00:03:39,679 Speaker 3: and clarity and the sessions you'll hear. All names have 54 00:03:39,719 --> 00:03:46,559 Speaker 3: been changed for the privacy of our fellow travelers. Hi, Laurie, 55 00:03:46,919 --> 00:03:50,719 Speaker 3: Hey guy, I am so excited about today. I barely 56 00:03:50,759 --> 00:03:51,479 Speaker 3: slept last night. 57 00:03:51,839 --> 00:03:52,519 Speaker 1: Me too. 58 00:03:53,679 --> 00:03:57,279 Speaker 3: We are doing something very special today because we got 59 00:03:57,319 --> 00:04:00,679 Speaker 3: so many letters after our first season of people wanting 60 00:04:00,759 --> 00:04:03,239 Speaker 3: to hear well, yes, we heard the follow up a 61 00:04:03,239 --> 00:04:05,799 Speaker 3: week later, but how are they doing now? All the 62 00:04:05,799 --> 00:04:09,039 Speaker 3: people that you spend so much time with, And we're like, 63 00:04:09,159 --> 00:04:13,079 Speaker 3: we don't know, and we're dying to know, and so 64 00:04:13,119 --> 00:04:16,519 Speaker 3: we figured out we can just ask, and so we did. 65 00:04:16,599 --> 00:04:19,319 Speaker 3: We wrote to everyone and we said, how are you doing? 66 00:04:20,039 --> 00:04:22,599 Speaker 3: So what we're going to do today is bring you 67 00:04:23,199 --> 00:04:26,599 Speaker 3: follow ups and find out how they are doing a 68 00:04:26,719 --> 00:04:27,679 Speaker 3: year later. 69 00:04:27,479 --> 00:04:29,879 Speaker 1: And we are just as excited to find out how 70 00:04:29,919 --> 00:04:33,319 Speaker 1: these people are doing because we also get very attached 71 00:04:33,679 --> 00:04:37,079 Speaker 1: to the fellow travelers who come on the show every week, 72 00:04:37,239 --> 00:04:39,199 Speaker 1: and we think about them when we wonder about them, 73 00:04:39,519 --> 00:04:40,359 Speaker 1: just like all of you do. 74 00:04:41,759 --> 00:04:43,559 Speaker 3: So today we're going to start with a few of them, 75 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:46,399 Speaker 3: and the first person we're starting with is the very 76 00:04:46,599 --> 00:04:49,479 Speaker 3: first guest we had on our show, Srina. 77 00:04:50,559 --> 00:04:52,959 Speaker 1: I think we feel a special attachment to Shrina because 78 00:04:52,959 --> 00:04:56,359 Speaker 1: she was our very first guest on this show, and 79 00:04:56,919 --> 00:05:00,479 Speaker 1: she also happens to be one of the most popular episodes. 80 00:05:00,519 --> 00:05:02,519 Speaker 1: And I think it's because she was dealing with something 81 00:05:03,159 --> 00:05:07,959 Speaker 1: that feels very universal, which is heartbreak. She was dealing 82 00:05:07,999 --> 00:05:13,879 Speaker 1: with a breakup, and she was really struggling with all 83 00:05:13,959 --> 00:05:17,159 Speaker 1: of these obsessive thoughts about what if I had done 84 00:05:17,239 --> 00:05:20,319 Speaker 1: something different, could I have gotten him to love be? 85 00:05:21,319 --> 00:05:24,479 Speaker 1: What's wrong with me? She had a lot of fantasies 86 00:05:24,479 --> 00:05:26,999 Speaker 1: about what would have happened if she had stayed with him, 87 00:05:27,759 --> 00:05:30,359 Speaker 1: and all of this is so common, and at the 88 00:05:30,399 --> 00:05:33,759 Speaker 1: same time, if you go back and listen to the episode, 89 00:05:33,799 --> 00:05:36,719 Speaker 1: you'll see that we took it to a very different place. 90 00:05:37,679 --> 00:05:39,479 Speaker 3: Let's get a little bit of a reminder. 91 00:05:40,639 --> 00:05:42,839 Speaker 5: I was with that guy for like five years, and 92 00:05:42,879 --> 00:05:45,079 Speaker 5: he said that he didn't love me anymore. One day 93 00:05:45,079 --> 00:05:46,599 Speaker 5: he just woke up to turn round, looked at me 94 00:05:46,599 --> 00:05:48,239 Speaker 5: in the house that we were living in, and just said, Oh, 95 00:05:48,239 --> 00:05:49,159 Speaker 5: I don't love you anymore. 96 00:05:49,639 --> 00:05:52,519 Speaker 1: How did you grieve the loss of that relationship? 97 00:05:52,879 --> 00:05:55,959 Speaker 5: I actually got straight into like a rebound relationship with 98 00:05:55,999 --> 00:06:00,719 Speaker 5: someone who was just as probably in as much of 99 00:06:00,759 --> 00:06:02,119 Speaker 5: a mess as I was. 100 00:06:02,439 --> 00:06:04,719 Speaker 6: It's possible with some of these guys that you are 101 00:06:04,799 --> 00:06:08,439 Speaker 6: overlooking things because yes, it's slightly a problem, but I 102 00:06:08,439 --> 00:06:12,559 Speaker 6: can manage it. When the problem with managing it is 103 00:06:12,599 --> 00:06:15,199 Speaker 6: that it communicates to them that you're okay with it, 104 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:16,679 Speaker 6: when in essence you're not. 105 00:06:17,559 --> 00:06:20,039 Speaker 5: I kind of keep thinking like is there something that 106 00:06:20,079 --> 00:06:24,959 Speaker 5: I could have done differently or better? I find myself 107 00:06:25,039 --> 00:06:28,599 Speaker 5: trying to mold myself into shapes for my partner that 108 00:06:28,599 --> 00:06:30,959 Speaker 5: they the way that they want me to be, and 109 00:06:30,999 --> 00:06:32,599 Speaker 5: it kind of just made me feel like, why can't 110 00:06:32,639 --> 00:06:34,679 Speaker 5: you just accept me as I am? And it just 111 00:06:34,719 --> 00:06:36,599 Speaker 5: made me feel really bad about myself. 112 00:06:39,039 --> 00:06:41,199 Speaker 3: So let's hear what's going on with Shreena. A year later. 113 00:06:42,479 --> 00:06:46,479 Speaker 5: Hi, Laurie, Hi guy, it's been a year, which is crazy. 114 00:06:47,239 --> 00:06:49,159 Speaker 5: I just wanted to let you know what's been happening 115 00:06:49,239 --> 00:06:52,279 Speaker 5: in my life. Since I came on the show, it's 116 00:06:52,319 --> 00:06:55,879 Speaker 5: given me the chance to really reflect on how I 117 00:06:56,079 --> 00:06:58,199 Speaker 5: felt about myself and how I was willing to be 118 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:02,879 Speaker 5: treated in relationships. I have focused more on who I 119 00:07:02,919 --> 00:07:04,599 Speaker 5: am and who I want to be and the kind 120 00:07:04,639 --> 00:07:07,319 Speaker 5: of people I want to attract into my life. And 121 00:07:07,359 --> 00:07:12,319 Speaker 5: I've really tried to look at my childhood and understand 122 00:07:12,559 --> 00:07:19,079 Speaker 5: how that has formed a template for me in terms 123 00:07:19,119 --> 00:07:22,519 Speaker 5: of the people I attracted into my life, especially men. 124 00:07:22,759 --> 00:07:27,719 Speaker 5: So the conversation that we had was great. I just 125 00:07:27,759 --> 00:07:31,719 Speaker 5: didn't realize that the breakup was actually symptomatic of something 126 00:07:31,799 --> 00:07:36,239 Speaker 5: much larger. And in all honesty, I thought that the 127 00:07:36,319 --> 00:07:38,799 Speaker 5: issues I had in childhood I was quote. 128 00:07:38,639 --> 00:07:42,479 Speaker 4: Unquote over, which isn't true. I've realized. I've realized that, 129 00:07:43,759 --> 00:07:44,119 Speaker 4: you know. 130 00:07:44,039 --> 00:07:48,119 Speaker 5: It's more of a to and fro when dealing with 131 00:07:48,199 --> 00:07:52,599 Speaker 5: like childhood trauma and why you behave the way that 132 00:07:52,639 --> 00:07:55,079 Speaker 5: you do, why you sometimes attract the people into your 133 00:07:55,079 --> 00:07:57,599 Speaker 5: life that you do. So I'm really just trying to 134 00:07:57,639 --> 00:08:01,439 Speaker 5: work on being nicer to myself and realizing my own 135 00:08:01,479 --> 00:08:03,599 Speaker 5: worth and what I'm willing to accept. 136 00:08:04,639 --> 00:08:06,919 Speaker 1: I think this shows that people come to us for 137 00:08:06,999 --> 00:08:09,679 Speaker 1: what they think as a specific issue like a bain up, 138 00:08:10,279 --> 00:08:13,399 Speaker 1: and what they often discover is that it's part of 139 00:08:13,439 --> 00:08:18,159 Speaker 1: a pattern that isn't necessarily about their relationship to that person, 140 00:08:18,599 --> 00:08:23,199 Speaker 1: but it's really about their relationship to themselves and how 141 00:08:23,239 --> 00:08:26,999 Speaker 1: their history is operating in the background outside of their 142 00:08:27,039 --> 00:08:30,599 Speaker 1: awareness and preventing them from getting what they want. 143 00:08:31,519 --> 00:08:33,639 Speaker 3: That's right, because we don't end up the way we 144 00:08:33,719 --> 00:08:37,759 Speaker 3: are randomly. We were formed. We were molded by earlier 145 00:08:37,799 --> 00:08:40,359 Speaker 3: experiences in life, and it's so important to get an 146 00:08:40,439 --> 00:08:43,879 Speaker 3: understanding of what happened in those early years. We did 147 00:08:43,919 --> 00:08:45,839 Speaker 3: the best we could when we were helpless, when we 148 00:08:45,839 --> 00:08:49,359 Speaker 3: were dependent, and then we carry those patterns later into 149 00:08:49,399 --> 00:08:51,999 Speaker 3: life when we are no longer helpless or dependent, but 150 00:08:52,039 --> 00:08:54,679 Speaker 3: we're still acting as if we are, and we have 151 00:08:54,719 --> 00:08:56,759 Speaker 3: to get a handle on those things because those are 152 00:08:56,759 --> 00:08:59,319 Speaker 3: often the things that are really tripping us up and 153 00:08:59,359 --> 00:09:02,799 Speaker 3: preventing us, especially in terms of relationships, to get what 154 00:09:02,839 --> 00:09:03,439 Speaker 3: we really want. 155 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:06,759 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you can hear that sense of helplessness in 156 00:09:06,839 --> 00:09:11,719 Speaker 1: our session with Strina, where she really felt like a 157 00:09:11,759 --> 00:09:15,839 Speaker 1: little girl who had no choices, no options, and all 158 00:09:15,879 --> 00:09:18,519 Speaker 1: she wanted was to be loved. And that's the regressive 159 00:09:18,519 --> 00:09:21,119 Speaker 1: state that's the state that many of us get into 160 00:09:21,239 --> 00:09:24,159 Speaker 1: when we haven't resolved some of those things from childhood. 161 00:09:24,159 --> 00:09:27,359 Speaker 1: Because heartbreak is hard anyway. Even if you processed all 162 00:09:27,359 --> 00:09:31,799 Speaker 1: that stuff from childhood, or you had really good modeling 163 00:09:31,959 --> 00:09:34,919 Speaker 1: and you felt very loved as a child, it's still 164 00:09:34,959 --> 00:09:38,199 Speaker 1: going to hurt. But there's another layer on top of 165 00:09:38,239 --> 00:09:40,719 Speaker 1: that when you haven't worked through some of this history. 166 00:09:40,999 --> 00:09:44,799 Speaker 1: And so I'm really glad that Shrina has been doing 167 00:09:44,839 --> 00:09:47,799 Speaker 1: so much work in the past year to understand herself better. 168 00:09:48,479 --> 00:09:50,319 Speaker 3: I just want to echo something you said, Laurie, because 169 00:09:50,319 --> 00:09:54,519 Speaker 3: you're right, there's no immunity from heartbreak. It can happen 170 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:57,519 Speaker 3: at any age, and it's devastating when it does. But 171 00:09:57,959 --> 00:10:00,479 Speaker 3: if you can deal with it like Shrina did, which 172 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:04,759 Speaker 3: is let me get curious, let me figure out something 173 00:10:04,839 --> 00:10:07,319 Speaker 3: so that this doesn't happen again, it's the best you 174 00:10:07,359 --> 00:10:09,439 Speaker 3: can do. Let's hear a little bit more about how 175 00:10:09,319 --> 00:10:09,839 Speaker 3: how she's doing. 176 00:10:10,879 --> 00:10:12,199 Speaker 4: I don't think I'm ready to date. 177 00:10:12,519 --> 00:10:13,879 Speaker 5: I think I still want to do a little bit 178 00:10:13,919 --> 00:10:16,239 Speaker 5: more work get to know myself. I think that in 179 00:10:16,279 --> 00:10:18,959 Speaker 5: my past relationship, I completely forgot who I was and 180 00:10:19,039 --> 00:10:22,359 Speaker 5: I kind of dimmed my shine a little bit, and 181 00:10:22,439 --> 00:10:23,759 Speaker 5: I want to try and find that again. 182 00:10:23,919 --> 00:10:26,279 Speaker 4: So I'm trying to. 183 00:10:27,879 --> 00:10:30,999 Speaker 5: Apply the advice that you guys have given me into 184 00:10:31,079 --> 00:10:34,679 Speaker 5: other aspects of my life. So work my relationships with 185 00:10:34,719 --> 00:10:39,159 Speaker 5: my family members, relationships with my friends, my relationship with myself. 186 00:10:39,239 --> 00:10:40,679 Speaker 4: I think that's the most important thing. 187 00:10:40,799 --> 00:10:43,159 Speaker 5: I've realized that my relationship that I have with myself 188 00:10:43,239 --> 00:10:47,239 Speaker 5: is the most constant and most important thing in my life, 189 00:10:47,279 --> 00:10:49,199 Speaker 5: and I want to make sure that that's solid. So 190 00:10:49,279 --> 00:10:52,679 Speaker 5: the next time I meet someone, I know what it 191 00:10:52,719 --> 00:10:54,479 Speaker 5: is that I'm looking for, and I know what I deserve. 192 00:10:56,439 --> 00:11:00,279 Speaker 1: Sometimes when we have these sessions and we give people advice, 193 00:11:01,239 --> 00:11:03,879 Speaker 1: they do really well with a portion of the advice, 194 00:11:04,439 --> 00:11:09,319 Speaker 1: and then they extrapolate something that they think would be 195 00:11:09,399 --> 00:11:12,199 Speaker 1: good for them that we did not advise. Here's an 196 00:11:12,199 --> 00:11:14,399 Speaker 1: example of that where she's saying, you know, I think 197 00:11:14,439 --> 00:11:16,599 Speaker 1: I really need to focus on myself and not date, 198 00:11:16,719 --> 00:11:20,879 Speaker 1: and that is not something that we would recommend. We 199 00:11:20,919 --> 00:11:25,039 Speaker 1: think that it's important to keep dating because people learn 200 00:11:25,119 --> 00:11:29,559 Speaker 1: a lot about themselves when they're in relationship with others. 201 00:11:30,759 --> 00:11:34,439 Speaker 1: And the goal here for Shrina is to date now 202 00:11:34,599 --> 00:11:38,759 Speaker 1: but with more awareness with her eyes opened. It's kind 203 00:11:38,759 --> 00:11:41,959 Speaker 1: of a myth that we quote find ourselves alone, we 204 00:11:41,999 --> 00:11:44,999 Speaker 1: actually learn a lot about ourselves reflected in how we 205 00:11:45,279 --> 00:11:48,759 Speaker 1: are in relationship. Just like Shrina learned a lot from 206 00:11:48,799 --> 00:11:52,279 Speaker 1: that relationship with Joe, I think that she will learn 207 00:11:52,279 --> 00:11:55,999 Speaker 1: a lot going forward in the relationships that she pursues now. 208 00:11:56,599 --> 00:11:58,799 Speaker 1: And so the more that we learn about ourselves, the 209 00:11:58,839 --> 00:12:02,079 Speaker 1: more we can attract better partners. So I wonder if 210 00:12:02,119 --> 00:12:05,319 Speaker 1: on some level she's using her fear of being hurt 211 00:12:05,879 --> 00:12:08,879 Speaker 1: as a reason not to date without realizing that that's 212 00:12:08,919 --> 00:12:09,759 Speaker 1: the real reason. 213 00:12:10,759 --> 00:12:14,279 Speaker 3: This is something so many people do after heartbreak because 214 00:12:14,279 --> 00:12:16,959 Speaker 3: it was so painful, they're really hesitant to get hurt again, 215 00:12:17,039 --> 00:12:19,319 Speaker 3: so they say, I need to work on myself, which 216 00:12:19,359 --> 00:12:23,279 Speaker 3: they often do. But there's only so much growth you 217 00:12:23,319 --> 00:12:27,079 Speaker 3: can have in theory. You need to do it in practice. 218 00:12:27,119 --> 00:12:31,239 Speaker 3: That last stage of preparation has to happen in the 219 00:12:31,279 --> 00:12:35,959 Speaker 3: application of what you've already learned in real life situations. 220 00:12:35,959 --> 00:12:38,759 Speaker 3: That you have to put yourself out there again and 221 00:12:38,999 --> 00:12:41,279 Speaker 3: come at it in a different way from what you've learned. 222 00:12:41,639 --> 00:12:44,759 Speaker 3: But you will never be fully ready without putting yourself 223 00:12:44,799 --> 00:12:47,439 Speaker 3: out there. It's this paradox that's the thing that will 224 00:12:47,479 --> 00:12:49,839 Speaker 3: show you that you're ready when you're out there and 225 00:12:49,919 --> 00:12:52,039 Speaker 3: you're doing it, and you're doing it differently. 226 00:12:52,959 --> 00:12:56,199 Speaker 1: It's almost like if you're an athlete and you practice 227 00:12:56,199 --> 00:12:58,799 Speaker 1: and practice and practice and practice, but you never actually 228 00:12:58,999 --> 00:13:01,719 Speaker 1: get in a game. You're not going to improve and 229 00:13:01,759 --> 00:13:04,039 Speaker 1: you're not going to learn about what it's actually like 230 00:13:04,159 --> 00:13:07,919 Speaker 1: when you're in the game. It's very different. So we 231 00:13:07,999 --> 00:13:09,999 Speaker 1: hope for Srina that she will do these things in 232 00:13:10,039 --> 00:13:12,839 Speaker 1: parallel tracks, that she will continue to work on herself 233 00:13:12,879 --> 00:13:15,919 Speaker 1: and learn about herself, and that she will also date 234 00:13:16,239 --> 00:13:18,599 Speaker 1: so that she can learn even more about herself by 235 00:13:18,639 --> 00:13:22,439 Speaker 1: putting what she's learned into practice and through trial and 236 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:24,119 Speaker 1: error learning more about herself. 237 00:13:24,759 --> 00:13:27,719 Speaker 3: I agree. Let's hear what else Swena had to say. 238 00:13:28,479 --> 00:13:33,759 Speaker 5: I've got some new friends that really helped me to 239 00:13:33,799 --> 00:13:38,599 Speaker 5: see the bigger perspectives, help me to recognize my strengths 240 00:13:38,639 --> 00:13:43,879 Speaker 5: and celebrate them. But it's really the conversation we had, 241 00:13:43,919 --> 00:13:46,839 Speaker 5: even though it was about a romantic relationship ending, it's 242 00:13:46,879 --> 00:13:49,079 Speaker 5: made me realize how much I used to perform for 243 00:13:49,159 --> 00:13:51,319 Speaker 5: friends as well and family members, how much I used 244 00:13:51,359 --> 00:13:53,679 Speaker 5: to perform because if I performed, that means I'm lovable 245 00:13:54,119 --> 00:13:56,919 Speaker 5: And I remember Laurie and guys saying something about me 246 00:13:56,959 --> 00:13:59,479 Speaker 5: not feeling like I was inherently lovable as I am, 247 00:13:59,839 --> 00:14:02,759 Speaker 5: and I'm slowly beginning to realize that I don't. 248 00:14:02,519 --> 00:14:03,799 Speaker 4: Need to perform to be loved. 249 00:14:03,919 --> 00:14:06,119 Speaker 5: And it really struck a chord with me, And that 250 00:14:06,239 --> 00:14:10,639 Speaker 5: was my sort of revolutory moment that actually the breakup. Yes, 251 00:14:10,639 --> 00:14:14,559 Speaker 5: although it was bad, it opened the door for me 252 00:14:14,839 --> 00:14:19,679 Speaker 5: to understanding myself more and loving myself more. So in 253 00:14:19,679 --> 00:14:22,919 Speaker 5: that respect, I'm grateful that it happened. 254 00:14:23,799 --> 00:14:27,719 Speaker 3: I'm so glad she's learning who she is and who 255 00:14:27,719 --> 00:14:30,479 Speaker 3: she wants to be with. Because the clearer you are 256 00:14:30,519 --> 00:14:33,079 Speaker 3: about who you are, the less likely you are to 257 00:14:33,159 --> 00:14:36,119 Speaker 3: lose yourself by trying to fit into someone else's idea 258 00:14:36,359 --> 00:14:38,639 Speaker 3: of who you think they want you to be. So 259 00:14:38,679 --> 00:14:40,959 Speaker 3: it's really good that she's doing this work, and it's 260 00:14:40,999 --> 00:14:44,639 Speaker 3: really good that she's practicing it by finding new friendships 261 00:14:44,639 --> 00:14:45,839 Speaker 3: in which you can be that person. 262 00:14:46,799 --> 00:14:50,999 Speaker 1: And what's important here is that relationships are relationships, and 263 00:14:51,279 --> 00:14:53,559 Speaker 1: what we do in one kind of relationship, like a 264 00:14:53,639 --> 00:14:58,279 Speaker 1: romantic relationship, we often do in others with family, with friends, 265 00:14:58,279 --> 00:15:03,999 Speaker 1: with coworkers, parents, children, and in all of her relationships, 266 00:15:04,439 --> 00:15:08,799 Speaker 1: she felt that she had to do something, to perform 267 00:15:08,879 --> 00:15:11,679 Speaker 1: in some way way to be loved, that she couldn't 268 00:15:11,719 --> 00:15:16,879 Speaker 1: just be just be herself and be loved. And she 269 00:15:17,039 --> 00:15:20,479 Speaker 1: happened to learn that, yes, I can just be myself 270 00:15:20,519 --> 00:15:23,279 Speaker 1: and be loved. And that's the kind of relationship I 271 00:15:23,279 --> 00:15:25,479 Speaker 1: want to be a not just romantic relationship, but all 272 00:15:25,519 --> 00:15:28,359 Speaker 1: of my relationships. I want to be loved for who 273 00:15:28,399 --> 00:15:32,439 Speaker 1: I am. And she learned this because of her breakup. 274 00:15:33,119 --> 00:15:35,959 Speaker 1: And so when we think about how painful breakups are, 275 00:15:36,319 --> 00:15:39,119 Speaker 1: they're also often an inflection point. They're kind of a 276 00:15:39,159 --> 00:15:42,199 Speaker 1: wake up call. What do I need to learn from 277 00:15:42,359 --> 00:15:45,159 Speaker 1: this experience so that I can get to the place 278 00:15:45,199 --> 00:15:47,439 Speaker 1: that I want to be. And she's getting to a 279 00:15:47,519 --> 00:15:52,399 Speaker 1: place of self acceptance, of embracing who she is, of 280 00:15:52,479 --> 00:15:56,519 Speaker 1: more comfort with herself, of being clear about her boundaries 281 00:15:56,759 --> 00:16:00,079 Speaker 1: what she wants in a relationship. So I think that 282 00:16:00,119 --> 00:16:02,319 Speaker 1: even though she came to us for a breakup, what 283 00:16:02,439 --> 00:16:04,799 Speaker 1: she's getting out of this, you can see a year later, 284 00:16:05,519 --> 00:16:07,599 Speaker 1: is so much of what she needed to learn in 285 00:16:07,719 --> 00:16:10,439 Speaker 1: order to find what event actually she helps well be 286 00:16:10,479 --> 00:16:12,399 Speaker 1: the relationship that she's been looking for. 287 00:16:13,519 --> 00:16:15,559 Speaker 3: And let's see one last thought for sure, you. 288 00:16:15,559 --> 00:16:18,799 Speaker 5: Know, ultimately I feel like I've got to the place 289 00:16:18,839 --> 00:16:23,999 Speaker 5: where I no longer want I like what we had, 290 00:16:23,999 --> 00:16:26,039 Speaker 5: what Joe and I had, I don't really want that anymore. 291 00:16:26,559 --> 00:16:28,839 Speaker 5: I don't think that we were necessarily compatible. 292 00:16:29,919 --> 00:16:34,479 Speaker 4: Am I still heartbroken? No, I don't think I'm heartbroken. 293 00:16:34,839 --> 00:16:38,359 Speaker 5: I think I built something that on something that didn't exist. 294 00:16:38,839 --> 00:16:41,159 Speaker 4: So it's definitely taught me. 295 00:16:41,119 --> 00:16:45,039 Speaker 5: To accept someone as they are and realize that you're 296 00:16:45,119 --> 00:16:48,399 Speaker 5: dating them as a reality and not their potential. So 297 00:16:48,399 --> 00:16:50,839 Speaker 5: I don't want people out here thinking that, you know, 298 00:16:50,879 --> 00:16:54,359 Speaker 5: after our conversation, everything turned around for me and like 299 00:16:54,399 --> 00:16:55,999 Speaker 5: I was up and onwards and I'm like in a 300 00:16:56,039 --> 00:16:57,159 Speaker 5: loving relationship and. 301 00:16:57,119 --> 00:16:57,999 Speaker 4: I'm like married. 302 00:16:58,479 --> 00:17:02,799 Speaker 5: No, that's not what happened, But in my opinion, something 303 00:17:02,839 --> 00:17:07,719 Speaker 5: better happened. Ultimately, it's made me stronger and it's made 304 00:17:07,759 --> 00:17:11,359 Speaker 5: me love myself so much more so for that, I 305 00:17:11,439 --> 00:17:15,039 Speaker 5: have to say, I'm eternally grateful for the breakup, and 306 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:17,919 Speaker 5: I'm eternally grateful for your support. 307 00:17:18,799 --> 00:17:20,679 Speaker 4: Honestly, guys, it was one of the. 308 00:17:20,599 --> 00:17:24,599 Speaker 5: Best things I've ever done. So yeah, one hundred percent 309 00:17:24,679 --> 00:17:28,559 Speaker 5: recommend that people who are going through breakups speak to 310 00:17:28,559 --> 00:17:30,879 Speaker 5: a professional because they can give you the insight into 311 00:17:30,919 --> 00:17:34,159 Speaker 5: yourself that you didn't know and you didn't have. So 312 00:17:34,279 --> 00:17:35,679 Speaker 5: thank you, guys, thank you so much. 313 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:42,559 Speaker 1: People generally come to us when they're experiencing something like 314 00:17:42,599 --> 00:17:46,599 Speaker 1: a breakup, some kind of crisis in their lives. And 315 00:17:46,959 --> 00:17:49,559 Speaker 1: what I think Shrina saw is that it's very different 316 00:17:49,639 --> 00:17:52,919 Speaker 1: to talk to a therapist than it is to talk 317 00:17:52,959 --> 00:17:56,119 Speaker 1: to a friend. We have this concept of idiot compassion 318 00:17:56,199 --> 00:17:59,039 Speaker 1: versus wise compassion. Idiot compassion is what our friends do. 319 00:17:59,159 --> 00:18:01,239 Speaker 1: We say, this guy was a jerk, and isn't it 320 00:18:01,279 --> 00:18:03,679 Speaker 1: awful and look at what he did, and we say, yeah, 321 00:18:03,719 --> 00:18:07,119 Speaker 1: you're right, they were wrong, and we don't really get 322 00:18:07,439 --> 00:18:10,879 Speaker 1: the wise compassion, which is what therapists do, which is 323 00:18:10,919 --> 00:18:12,959 Speaker 1: we hold up a mirror to you and help you 324 00:18:12,999 --> 00:18:15,959 Speaker 1: to see something about your situation and about yourself that 325 00:18:16,079 --> 00:18:18,639 Speaker 1: maybe you haven't been willing or able to see. And 326 00:18:18,719 --> 00:18:21,079 Speaker 1: that's where the growth and transformation come about. 327 00:18:22,319 --> 00:18:25,799 Speaker 3: And what I'm really proud of Shrina for is that 328 00:18:25,879 --> 00:18:28,959 Speaker 3: she is demonstrating this other difference because when you go 329 00:18:28,999 --> 00:18:31,919 Speaker 3: to friends, it's a conversation or two. When you go 330 00:18:32,039 --> 00:18:36,439 Speaker 3: to therapy, it is emotional labor, it's emotional discomfort, it's 331 00:18:36,599 --> 00:18:41,079 Speaker 3: really self examining and really holding yourself through to what 332 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:44,959 Speaker 3: you're discovering. And Shrina is doing that work. And I'm very, 333 00:18:45,079 --> 00:18:47,839 Speaker 3: very hopeful that if she actually now steps out into 334 00:18:47,839 --> 00:18:51,439 Speaker 3: the dating world, she'll find it's a very different world 335 00:18:51,519 --> 00:18:56,599 Speaker 3: than the one she was in before. You're listening to 336 00:18:56,639 --> 00:19:00,519 Speaker 3: Deo Therapists from iHeartRadio. We'll be back after a quick break. 337 00:19:07,519 --> 00:19:10,439 Speaker 3: I'm laur Gottlieb and I'm Guy Wench and this is 338 00:19:10,479 --> 00:19:11,239 Speaker 3: THEO Therapist. 339 00:19:14,279 --> 00:19:16,239 Speaker 1: So Guy, the next person we're going to hear from 340 00:19:16,519 --> 00:19:17,479 Speaker 1: is Priscilla. 341 00:19:18,239 --> 00:19:21,279 Speaker 3: And to remind people, Priscilla was in a relationship with 342 00:19:21,319 --> 00:19:24,479 Speaker 3: someone who had a six year old daughter, and the 343 00:19:24,599 --> 00:19:27,959 Speaker 3: daughter was saying very hurtful things to Priscilla, and Priscilla 344 00:19:28,039 --> 00:19:30,399 Speaker 3: did not know how to deal with them or how 345 00:19:30,439 --> 00:19:31,879 Speaker 3: to deal with the daughter's anger. 346 00:19:32,519 --> 00:19:35,959 Speaker 7: Let's get a reminder, well, everything is going fine, maybe 347 00:19:35,999 --> 00:19:37,399 Speaker 7: today is going to be a good day. Then I 348 00:19:37,439 --> 00:19:39,279 Speaker 7: certainly don't know what to say when she's like, I 349 00:19:39,319 --> 00:19:41,079 Speaker 7: hate you, get away from me. 350 00:19:41,519 --> 00:19:43,999 Speaker 1: What is your boyfriend's relationship with his daughter? 351 00:19:44,279 --> 00:19:47,159 Speaker 7: In the beginning, I saw how does he love this 352 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:49,839 Speaker 7: child so much when she's so difficult to him? 353 00:19:49,839 --> 00:19:50,159 Speaker 5: As well? 354 00:19:50,199 --> 00:19:52,319 Speaker 7: I think she acts out quite a bit pushes his 355 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:54,839 Speaker 7: boundaries as well. I think we all walk on eggshells 356 00:19:54,879 --> 00:19:57,639 Speaker 7: around her, waiting for her to kind of erupt with 357 00:19:57,719 --> 00:19:58,959 Speaker 7: some sort of behavior. 358 00:20:02,279 --> 00:20:04,599 Speaker 1: So Guy, just hearing her tape reminds me of what 359 00:20:04,639 --> 00:20:08,039 Speaker 1: a struggle this was. So let's hear how things are now. 360 00:20:09,479 --> 00:20:12,999 Speaker 8: Hi, Laurie and Guy. It's Priscilla. And if you told 361 00:20:13,039 --> 00:20:15,639 Speaker 8: me I'd be where I am right now a year ago, 362 00:20:15,839 --> 00:20:18,959 Speaker 8: I would not have believed you. I'm still dating the 363 00:20:18,999 --> 00:20:22,319 Speaker 8: same boyfriend who has two children, and we still live separately, 364 00:20:22,399 --> 00:20:25,159 Speaker 8: but we actually have tentative plans to get a house 365 00:20:25,159 --> 00:20:29,119 Speaker 8: together in the next year. More specifically, about the relationship 366 00:20:29,159 --> 00:20:31,319 Speaker 8: I have now with his daughter is not at all 367 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:34,799 Speaker 8: what I would have expected. She herself, is a little human, 368 00:20:35,199 --> 00:20:39,359 Speaker 8: has been growing up she's seven, is her own unique person, 369 00:20:39,479 --> 00:20:43,239 Speaker 8: and a conversation we had recently during a girl chat, 370 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:45,519 Speaker 8: yes we have those who would have ever thought she 371 00:20:45,559 --> 00:20:47,719 Speaker 8: would have wanted all this one on one time with me, 372 00:20:47,839 --> 00:20:50,559 Speaker 8: but she does. She asked me, you know, why do 373 00:20:50,599 --> 00:20:51,479 Speaker 8: I like her for. 374 00:20:51,439 --> 00:20:54,519 Speaker 1: Who she is? So often people come on the show 375 00:20:54,559 --> 00:20:56,999 Speaker 1: with an issue and they can't imagine it being different. 376 00:20:57,039 --> 00:21:00,759 Speaker 1: They feel totally stuck. And what we do as therapists 377 00:21:00,959 --> 00:21:03,839 Speaker 1: is to help them not only in vision and imagine 378 00:21:03,839 --> 00:21:07,279 Speaker 1: something different, but we give them the awareness and tools 379 00:21:07,319 --> 00:21:10,519 Speaker 1: to do something different so that this new version of 380 00:21:10,519 --> 00:21:13,119 Speaker 1: things can actually become a reality. And I love where 381 00:21:13,159 --> 00:21:15,559 Speaker 1: she says, yes, we even have girl chats, and I 382 00:21:15,599 --> 00:21:18,759 Speaker 1: can't believe how much has changed. And I think that's 383 00:21:18,799 --> 00:21:22,119 Speaker 1: because she really put into action the kinds of things 384 00:21:22,159 --> 00:21:24,359 Speaker 1: that we asked her to think about. 385 00:21:24,519 --> 00:21:26,559 Speaker 3: And we see this in our practices all the time. 386 00:21:26,639 --> 00:21:29,999 Speaker 3: It's not a one time effort. You have to maintain it. 387 00:21:30,039 --> 00:21:33,159 Speaker 3: And when you maintain it all the time, that's when 388 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:36,839 Speaker 3: change really takes place. So let's hear a little bit 389 00:21:36,839 --> 00:21:37,999 Speaker 3: more from Priscilla. 390 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:43,279 Speaker 8: And it really struck me because I started to realize 391 00:21:43,319 --> 00:21:46,519 Speaker 8: how much struggle she may be having with the divorce 392 00:21:46,599 --> 00:21:49,399 Speaker 8: of her parents, and maybe she's acting out at me 393 00:21:50,279 --> 00:21:53,199 Speaker 8: and her dad and her sibling because she's hurting and 394 00:21:53,479 --> 00:21:56,199 Speaker 8: doesn't really know how to handle these emotions. And yes, 395 00:21:56,879 --> 00:21:59,559 Speaker 8: Laurie and guy, you've said that, I had a really 396 00:21:59,839 --> 00:22:03,159 Speaker 8: hard time believing you in the moment. I had real 397 00:22:03,199 --> 00:22:06,639 Speaker 8: struggles seeing that come through when she was just pure 398 00:22:06,679 --> 00:22:09,999 Speaker 8: anger and said so many hatred things to me. Sometimes, 399 00:22:10,839 --> 00:22:12,599 Speaker 8: you know, I would have panic attacks going to their 400 00:22:12,599 --> 00:22:14,679 Speaker 8: house on the weekends because I wasn't sure what I 401 00:22:14,719 --> 00:22:17,079 Speaker 8: was in for. I haven't felt that for a really 402 00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:20,679 Speaker 8: long time now. And it also it really helped for 403 00:22:20,679 --> 00:22:23,439 Speaker 8: me to look at myself and figure out what was 404 00:22:23,519 --> 00:22:26,919 Speaker 8: going on with me that was giving me such struggle 405 00:22:26,999 --> 00:22:28,919 Speaker 8: to see where she was coming from. 406 00:22:29,919 --> 00:22:33,239 Speaker 1: What Priscilla is learning is that perspective taking isn't just 407 00:22:33,239 --> 00:22:36,759 Speaker 1: seeing the other person's world through their eyes, but it's 408 00:22:36,759 --> 00:22:40,479 Speaker 1: looking inside it ourselves and gaining some self perspective as well. 409 00:22:41,239 --> 00:22:43,919 Speaker 3: The thing about perspective taking that people often get wrong 410 00:22:44,079 --> 00:22:46,559 Speaker 3: is they think it just comes to you. It's actually 411 00:22:46,559 --> 00:22:49,079 Speaker 3: a thought exercise. You have to take the time to 412 00:22:49,559 --> 00:22:53,039 Speaker 3: sit quietly consider the other person's point of view, ask yourself, 413 00:22:53,079 --> 00:22:56,399 Speaker 3: how might they see things differently than you? And it's 414 00:22:56,439 --> 00:22:59,799 Speaker 3: a thought exercise you have to intentionally do in order 415 00:22:59,839 --> 00:23:00,759 Speaker 3: to get that window. 416 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:04,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, perspective taking is actually quite difficult, and I think 417 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:06,239 Speaker 1: people think, oh, I'm really good at that. I can 418 00:23:06,559 --> 00:23:10,359 Speaker 1: completely imagine their perspective. But when you sit down and 419 00:23:10,839 --> 00:23:14,599 Speaker 1: you start to do the exercise, you say, wait a minute, 420 00:23:14,599 --> 00:23:16,959 Speaker 1: I can go deeper. I can try to understand this 421 00:23:16,999 --> 00:23:20,319 Speaker 1: a little bit better, and I think that's where Priscilla 422 00:23:20,399 --> 00:23:23,759 Speaker 1: was getting kind of tripped up before. She didn't realize 423 00:23:24,479 --> 00:23:28,159 Speaker 1: what this experience might have been like for this little girl. 424 00:23:29,039 --> 00:23:31,319 Speaker 1: So let's go back to Priscilla. 425 00:23:31,439 --> 00:23:33,079 Speaker 8: I've been able to see a lot of the good 426 00:23:33,159 --> 00:23:36,759 Speaker 8: things in her and really be thankful for the time 427 00:23:36,759 --> 00:23:40,919 Speaker 8: that we have together and enjoy her company and handling 428 00:23:40,959 --> 00:23:44,439 Speaker 8: those tough times. I definitely don't get it right sometimes. 429 00:23:44,879 --> 00:23:48,399 Speaker 8: The advice I still find the absolute hardest and I 430 00:23:48,439 --> 00:23:51,679 Speaker 8: haven't been able to do well is when she talks 431 00:23:51,679 --> 00:23:55,319 Speaker 8: about her mom liking something or doing something, and it 432 00:23:55,519 --> 00:23:58,679 Speaker 8: was guy that said to reply back, oh, it sounds 433 00:23:58,679 --> 00:24:01,079 Speaker 8: like your mom has good taste or something like that, 434 00:24:01,199 --> 00:24:04,159 Speaker 8: And I just can't do it. It's really really hard. So 435 00:24:04,319 --> 00:24:07,279 Speaker 8: a lot of times I'll just be silent or acknowledge like, oh, okay, 436 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:09,679 Speaker 8: she likes that, and that's about all I can do. 437 00:24:09,719 --> 00:24:11,479 Speaker 8: But I will continue to work on it because I 438 00:24:11,519 --> 00:24:13,519 Speaker 8: know what will be really really helpful for her to 439 00:24:13,559 --> 00:24:14,799 Speaker 8: hear that back from me. 440 00:24:15,959 --> 00:24:18,679 Speaker 3: One of the key lessons in this episode for Priscilla 441 00:24:18,799 --> 00:24:23,399 Speaker 3: was that her stepdaughter almost had to have these challenging 442 00:24:23,439 --> 00:24:26,719 Speaker 3: moments with Priscilla because she needed that in order to 443 00:24:26,719 --> 00:24:29,799 Speaker 3: feel loyal to her mother, if she was just nice 444 00:24:29,839 --> 00:24:32,439 Speaker 3: all the time, she would feel she was betraying her mom. 445 00:24:32,759 --> 00:24:36,319 Speaker 3: And by being able to validate the girl's sentiment in 446 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,319 Speaker 3: some way, even if it's challenging, and even to compliment 447 00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:41,239 Speaker 3: the mother when the daughter says her mom is so 448 00:24:41,319 --> 00:24:45,279 Speaker 3: much better than Priscilla, she's actually freeing the daughter from 449 00:24:45,319 --> 00:24:46,359 Speaker 3: that loyalty. 450 00:24:45,999 --> 00:24:49,879 Speaker 1: Struggle, right. And I think what came up for Priscilla 451 00:24:50,399 --> 00:24:54,079 Speaker 1: was something she hadn't recognized before, which is that she 452 00:24:54,239 --> 00:24:56,959 Speaker 1: has her own power struggle with the daughter. And that's 453 00:24:56,959 --> 00:25:01,359 Speaker 1: why this intervention has been hard for her. That there's 454 00:25:01,399 --> 00:25:04,799 Speaker 1: still a part of her that really wants more of 455 00:25:04,839 --> 00:25:09,199 Speaker 1: the dad and it's hard for her to acknowledge that 456 00:25:09,399 --> 00:25:12,959 Speaker 1: because sometimes we feel a lot of shame around these 457 00:25:12,999 --> 00:25:16,879 Speaker 1: maybe younger impulses that we have. But I think it's 458 00:25:16,919 --> 00:25:19,919 Speaker 1: really important for Priscilla to understand why it's so hard 459 00:25:19,959 --> 00:25:22,679 Speaker 1: for her to be able to compliment the mother, and 460 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:25,439 Speaker 1: maybe she feels a little bit threatened there that if 461 00:25:25,479 --> 00:25:29,639 Speaker 1: she really thinks about all of the positive things about 462 00:25:29,679 --> 00:25:34,239 Speaker 1: this person that was the wife of her boyfriend, there's 463 00:25:34,239 --> 00:25:36,519 Speaker 1: some insecurity in her that it brings up so I 464 00:25:36,519 --> 00:25:38,039 Speaker 1: hope she'll give more thought to that. 465 00:25:38,719 --> 00:25:41,519 Speaker 3: And I was really glad to hear that Priscilla and 466 00:25:41,559 --> 00:25:43,639 Speaker 3: her boyfriend are going to be moving in together soon 467 00:25:43,719 --> 00:25:47,439 Speaker 3: and they're really becoming a blended family. And blended family 468 00:25:47,479 --> 00:25:50,159 Speaker 3: means the mom is going to be in Priscilla's life, 469 00:25:50,239 --> 00:25:52,679 Speaker 3: and so it's important for Priscilla to try and connect 470 00:25:52,719 --> 00:25:54,599 Speaker 3: to those good parts of the month because it would 471 00:25:54,599 --> 00:25:58,199 Speaker 3: make life easier for her once the families get really blended. 472 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:00,959 Speaker 1: When you have a blended family, it's not just the 473 00:26:01,079 --> 00:26:03,719 Speaker 1: children that are part of the blended family, but it's 474 00:26:04,319 --> 00:26:07,199 Speaker 1: the parents of the children that are all going to 475 00:26:07,239 --> 00:26:10,079 Speaker 1: have to coexist with one another, and it will make 476 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:13,159 Speaker 1: things not only easier for the daughter, but easier for 477 00:26:13,519 --> 00:26:15,919 Speaker 1: her boyfriend and easier for Priscilla. 478 00:26:16,639 --> 00:26:18,559 Speaker 3: Let's hear some last words from Priscilla. 479 00:26:20,199 --> 00:26:22,919 Speaker 8: Generally, I don't think she wants to feel these feelings 480 00:26:22,959 --> 00:26:25,879 Speaker 8: of anger or react how she does. And I also 481 00:26:25,919 --> 00:26:28,799 Speaker 8: try to take that same approach with others, thinking that 482 00:26:29,039 --> 00:26:32,159 Speaker 8: maybe they really don't want to react in anger. I 483 00:26:32,239 --> 00:26:35,199 Speaker 8: try to communicate a little bit more compassionately the next 484 00:26:35,199 --> 00:26:37,599 Speaker 8: time I have a conversation with someone, and perhaps the 485 00:26:38,319 --> 00:26:41,759 Speaker 8: past we had a difficult conversation because we never know 486 00:26:42,279 --> 00:26:45,119 Speaker 8: what someone is going through and has them react, you 487 00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:47,519 Speaker 8: know the way that they are. So I wouldn't have 488 00:26:47,559 --> 00:26:49,719 Speaker 8: said that my boyfriend's daughter could have taught me something 489 00:26:49,759 --> 00:26:52,599 Speaker 8: a year ago. She has really taught me more than 490 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:56,119 Speaker 8: I could have ever imagined, and I know that she 491 00:26:56,159 --> 00:26:59,559 Speaker 8: will continue to. So thank you Laurie and Guy for 492 00:26:59,599 --> 00:27:01,919 Speaker 8: the advice that has got me on this path to 493 00:27:01,999 --> 00:27:05,959 Speaker 8: more compassion with her and building a better relationship with her. 494 00:27:07,519 --> 00:27:11,799 Speaker 1: What Priscilla's talking about is how having compassion for one 495 00:27:11,839 --> 00:27:16,919 Speaker 1: person generalizes to having compassion for many people and also 496 00:27:16,999 --> 00:27:20,999 Speaker 1: to self compassion. So when you do something to make 497 00:27:21,079 --> 00:27:25,119 Speaker 1: positive change in one relationship, you often use that in 498 00:27:25,159 --> 00:27:28,639 Speaker 1: other relationships. Doing this kind of work has a snowball 499 00:27:28,679 --> 00:27:31,119 Speaker 1: effect in people's lives. So you can see that happening 500 00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:32,919 Speaker 1: in Priscilla's life, and you. 501 00:27:32,919 --> 00:27:36,119 Speaker 3: Know what I'm thinking about that perspective taking exercise. I'm 502 00:27:36,159 --> 00:27:38,559 Speaker 3: going to suggest that everyone listening right now go back 503 00:27:38,559 --> 00:27:41,399 Speaker 3: and listen to this episode and then do the exercise. 504 00:27:41,959 --> 00:27:44,799 Speaker 3: Try and take the perspective of someone in your life 505 00:27:45,199 --> 00:27:51,959 Speaker 3: and see if that changes a dynamic for you. The 506 00:27:51,999 --> 00:27:54,639 Speaker 3: next person we're going to hear from is Alison Oh. 507 00:27:54,679 --> 00:27:56,999 Speaker 1: I really liked Allison as someone whose son was doing 508 00:27:57,079 --> 00:28:00,399 Speaker 1: remote learning, and I was watching what teachers were going 509 00:28:00,439 --> 00:28:05,799 Speaker 1: through when COVID had everybody at home and quarantined. I 510 00:28:05,879 --> 00:28:09,159 Speaker 1: felt so much for her and her dilemma. 511 00:28:09,439 --> 00:28:12,159 Speaker 3: She was so caring about her students, she was so 512 00:28:12,199 --> 00:28:15,519 Speaker 3: concerned for them, and she really missed that in person contact. 513 00:28:16,439 --> 00:28:18,639 Speaker 3: So here's a bit of a conversation from back then. 514 00:28:19,039 --> 00:28:21,159 Speaker 9: I have a group of kids who'd come to my 515 00:28:21,199 --> 00:28:24,799 Speaker 9: office hour, and they don't often actually want to talk 516 00:28:24,839 --> 00:28:27,719 Speaker 9: about any of the academic things. They'll ask me questions 517 00:28:27,719 --> 00:28:30,279 Speaker 9: for the first five or ten minutes, and then they 518 00:28:30,319 --> 00:28:31,999 Speaker 9: want to show me their room, or they want to 519 00:28:31,999 --> 00:28:34,079 Speaker 9: show me their pet, or they want to tell me 520 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:37,039 Speaker 9: what trouble they got in with their parents. But it's 521 00:28:37,079 --> 00:28:39,079 Speaker 9: not nearly the same. And I know that they're craving 522 00:28:39,119 --> 00:28:41,839 Speaker 9: it because I have students who when it comes up 523 00:28:41,839 --> 00:28:44,359 Speaker 9: at the end of the hour, we'll say, I can't 524 00:28:44,359 --> 00:28:47,479 Speaker 9: believe this is almost over. This is the time during 525 00:28:47,479 --> 00:28:50,679 Speaker 9: the week that I don't feel lonely, and that's just heartbreaking. 526 00:28:53,719 --> 00:28:55,639 Speaker 3: So let's hear what this year has been like for her. 527 00:28:56,479 --> 00:29:00,199 Speaker 10: Hi, this is Alison just giving a follow up. It's 528 00:29:00,199 --> 00:29:03,479 Speaker 10: been really hard to go through an entire year wearing masks, 529 00:29:03,599 --> 00:29:07,079 Speaker 10: not seeing full faces, and trying to keep a distance 530 00:29:07,119 --> 00:29:10,839 Speaker 10: from the students. Had a lot of responsibility put on 531 00:29:10,919 --> 00:29:14,239 Speaker 10: us to keep students safe under some really difficult conditions, 532 00:29:14,279 --> 00:29:16,599 Speaker 10: with all of them being in the classroom at the 533 00:29:16,599 --> 00:29:20,039 Speaker 10: same time. We had the risk of getting COVID ourselves, 534 00:29:20,119 --> 00:29:23,159 Speaker 10: of course, or ending up in isolation for the majority 535 00:29:23,159 --> 00:29:26,279 Speaker 10: of the year until teachers are eligible for the vaccine, 536 00:29:26,359 --> 00:29:30,759 Speaker 10: which didn't happen until May. Unfortunately, we went back and 537 00:29:30,799 --> 00:29:34,119 Speaker 10: forth from being in person to online a number of 538 00:29:34,159 --> 00:29:38,199 Speaker 10: times as the numbers of COVID fluctuated throughout the year, 539 00:29:39,479 --> 00:29:44,079 Speaker 10: And at this point I am pretty darn exhausted. I 540 00:29:44,079 --> 00:29:46,839 Speaker 10: don't think I have ever been so excited for summer. 541 00:29:48,199 --> 00:29:50,919 Speaker 1: Don't you find guy, that hearing people's voices brings back 542 00:29:50,959 --> 00:29:53,039 Speaker 1: the session so vividly. 543 00:29:54,039 --> 00:29:56,759 Speaker 3: It really does you really kind of experience. Oh, it's 544 00:29:56,759 --> 00:29:58,279 Speaker 3: like you're sitting with that person again. 545 00:29:58,959 --> 00:29:59,119 Speaker 4: You know. 546 00:29:59,279 --> 00:30:03,119 Speaker 1: It reminded me hearing her voice again, just how concerned 547 00:30:03,159 --> 00:30:06,799 Speaker 1: she was for her students. But we also wanted her 548 00:30:06,839 --> 00:30:09,999 Speaker 1: to acknowledge how hard this was on her, and we 549 00:30:10,039 --> 00:30:11,959 Speaker 1: wanted her to spend time taking care of her own 550 00:30:11,999 --> 00:30:15,999 Speaker 1: emotional life too. We see people in therapy who come 551 00:30:16,039 --> 00:30:18,519 Speaker 1: in with concerns about how someone they care about in 552 00:30:18,559 --> 00:30:21,999 Speaker 1: their life is doing, and they're so worried about them, 553 00:30:22,039 --> 00:30:23,879 Speaker 1: and we want to make sure that they don't get 554 00:30:23,919 --> 00:30:26,639 Speaker 1: lost in the equation here. That was something we really 555 00:30:26,679 --> 00:30:27,839 Speaker 1: wanted Allison to work on. 556 00:30:28,799 --> 00:30:31,519 Speaker 3: Yeah, we really see that among people who either are 557 00:30:31,679 --> 00:30:36,079 Speaker 3: actual caretakers who tend to be caretakers in an unofficial 558 00:30:36,079 --> 00:30:39,999 Speaker 3: capacity because they often struggle to prioritize their own mental 559 00:30:40,039 --> 00:30:42,559 Speaker 3: health reading and often it takes a while for them 560 00:30:42,599 --> 00:30:45,959 Speaker 3: to realize that, hey, I'm doing this really difficult thing 561 00:30:45,999 --> 00:30:46,919 Speaker 3: and I'm drowning. 562 00:30:47,159 --> 00:30:49,119 Speaker 1: And she had so much going on, Like she was 563 00:30:49,159 --> 00:30:52,439 Speaker 1: in this long distance relationship with her boyfriend and it 564 00:30:52,479 --> 00:30:54,999 Speaker 1: was really hard because they couldn't really see each other 565 00:30:55,039 --> 00:30:57,439 Speaker 1: as much as they wanted to, and so they were 566 00:30:57,439 --> 00:30:59,239 Speaker 1: trying to come up with ways that they could stay 567 00:30:59,279 --> 00:31:03,319 Speaker 1: connected during the pandemic. So let's hear what else went 568 00:31:03,399 --> 00:31:03,879 Speaker 1: on this year. 569 00:31:05,279 --> 00:31:07,599 Speaker 10: As from my personal life, it's changed quite a bit. 570 00:31:08,119 --> 00:31:12,519 Speaker 10: My boyfriend me we got engaged and we've been planning 571 00:31:12,599 --> 00:31:15,559 Speaker 10: a wedding for this summer, just to try and get 572 00:31:15,559 --> 00:31:18,679 Speaker 10: our lives going. We didn't really want to wait another year, 573 00:31:18,799 --> 00:31:23,839 Speaker 10: but this has definitely provided us some activity and things 574 00:31:23,879 --> 00:31:27,319 Speaker 10: to keep us busy and really looking forward to life 575 00:31:27,359 --> 00:31:32,399 Speaker 10: getting back to somewhat of a normal experience. I just 576 00:31:32,439 --> 00:31:34,799 Speaker 10: wanted to say thanks so much for having me on 577 00:31:34,919 --> 00:31:37,199 Speaker 10: as a guest. It was certainly a highlight in this 578 00:31:37,279 --> 00:31:40,399 Speaker 10: pandemic journey, and I wish you guys all the best. 579 00:31:40,639 --> 00:31:41,759 Speaker 10: Take care of Laurian guy. 580 00:31:43,279 --> 00:31:47,359 Speaker 1: When we talk about how couples were doing during the pandemic, 581 00:31:47,839 --> 00:31:51,119 Speaker 1: I feel like whatever was going on before was amplified. 582 00:31:51,199 --> 00:31:54,319 Speaker 1: If they were a strong couple and they communicated well, 583 00:31:54,559 --> 00:31:57,079 Speaker 1: that was amplified during the pandemic. If they were having 584 00:31:57,159 --> 00:32:00,919 Speaker 1: trouble beforehand, those problems were amplified during the pandemic. And 585 00:32:00,959 --> 00:32:03,399 Speaker 1: I think for Allison and her boyfriend, you can see 586 00:32:03,399 --> 00:32:06,319 Speaker 1: that they grew closer, they got engaged, they found ways 587 00:32:06,359 --> 00:32:09,639 Speaker 1: to connect. They're moving forward with the wedding as quickly 588 00:32:09,679 --> 00:32:13,119 Speaker 1: as possible, even if it might not be under ideal circumstances. 589 00:32:14,159 --> 00:32:18,279 Speaker 1: I just remember being so moved by the connection between them. 590 00:32:18,359 --> 00:32:21,959 Speaker 1: He did that personalized puzzle that he had made for 591 00:32:21,999 --> 00:32:26,399 Speaker 1: her birthday, and I just felt like they were a 592 00:32:26,439 --> 00:32:29,559 Speaker 1: couple who knew how to communicate with each other, even 593 00:32:29,599 --> 00:32:30,119 Speaker 1: from Afar. 594 00:32:30,879 --> 00:32:32,479 Speaker 3: You know, it's interesting because I think that a lot 595 00:32:32,519 --> 00:32:35,719 Speaker 3: of research will be coming out after the pandemic. But 596 00:32:35,759 --> 00:32:38,159 Speaker 3: what we saw after nine to eleven in New York 597 00:32:38,239 --> 00:32:40,719 Speaker 3: City was that the trauma and the stress of the 598 00:32:40,759 --> 00:32:45,639 Speaker 3: events did that same thing to couples. It really amplified 599 00:32:45,639 --> 00:32:48,039 Speaker 3: where they were, and some couples got closer because they 600 00:32:48,079 --> 00:32:51,319 Speaker 3: had that strong foundation and the events allowed them to 601 00:32:51,359 --> 00:32:55,439 Speaker 3: reconnect in deep ways, and other couples drifted apart and 602 00:32:55,519 --> 00:32:59,679 Speaker 3: broke up. And I think after hearing exactly that example 603 00:32:59,759 --> 00:33:02,039 Speaker 3: with that puzzle, because if I remember correctly, he actually 604 00:33:02,039 --> 00:33:04,679 Speaker 3: hated jigsaw puzzles and yet to put the whole thing together. 605 00:33:05,239 --> 00:33:07,999 Speaker 3: So it just showed such a commitment and such love. 606 00:33:08,599 --> 00:33:12,759 Speaker 3: I really wish them both congratulations. I am sure they're 607 00:33:12,759 --> 00:33:15,639 Speaker 3: gonna have a great marriage. They sounded like a very 608 00:33:15,639 --> 00:33:16,239 Speaker 3: strong couple. 609 00:33:18,999 --> 00:33:22,119 Speaker 1: You're listening to Dear Therapists for My Heart Radio. We'll 610 00:33:22,119 --> 00:33:37,239 Speaker 1: be back after a short break, you. 611 00:33:37,199 --> 00:33:39,439 Speaker 3: Know, Laurie. One of the things that has been most heartwarming, 612 00:33:39,559 --> 00:33:41,679 Speaker 3: I think we both feel is that we get so 613 00:33:41,719 --> 00:33:46,839 Speaker 3: many letters from listeners about these episodes talking about how 614 00:33:46,919 --> 00:33:49,919 Speaker 3: much they've learned from them and how they've applied the 615 00:33:49,999 --> 00:33:53,719 Speaker 3: lessons in their own lives. And one of the episodes 616 00:33:53,759 --> 00:33:57,159 Speaker 3: that generated a lot of these kinds of letters was 617 00:33:57,239 --> 00:33:59,119 Speaker 3: Jeff's Critical Parents. 618 00:33:59,359 --> 00:34:02,799 Speaker 1: Yeah, I like the heartbreak episode. This one is so relatable. 619 00:34:03,679 --> 00:34:06,239 Speaker 1: So he's the last person we're going to hear from today, 620 00:34:06,399 --> 00:34:09,119 Speaker 1: and let's hear what was going on a year ago 621 00:34:09,159 --> 00:34:09,639 Speaker 1: with him. 622 00:34:09,999 --> 00:34:12,599 Speaker 11: And I called my mom and it, Yeah, I was 623 00:34:12,639 --> 00:34:17,239 Speaker 11: a snotty, crying mess and told her, like, when you 624 00:34:17,279 --> 00:34:19,039 Speaker 11: say those things, it makes me feel really bad, and 625 00:34:19,079 --> 00:34:22,199 Speaker 11: I've been working really hard to love myself for those things, 626 00:34:22,399 --> 00:34:25,279 Speaker 11: and it just really hurts. I appreciate it if you didn't. 627 00:34:26,119 --> 00:34:29,639 Speaker 11: And her response was something along the lines of get 628 00:34:29,639 --> 00:34:32,879 Speaker 11: over it. And I feel really really small. 629 00:34:33,079 --> 00:34:36,359 Speaker 1: The reason that you feel small is because we all 630 00:34:36,399 --> 00:34:39,719 Speaker 1: do this around our parents at times when they trigger 631 00:34:39,799 --> 00:34:44,199 Speaker 1: something that was upsetting from our childhood. We get very 632 00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:48,199 Speaker 1: young in those moments, so it's not our adult selves 633 00:34:48,479 --> 00:34:51,879 Speaker 1: that's responding. It's our childhood self. 634 00:34:52,479 --> 00:34:56,039 Speaker 3: Part of what happens when we get into that young 635 00:34:56,439 --> 00:35:00,039 Speaker 3: mental space. But as we feel as helpless and lacking 636 00:35:00,119 --> 00:35:03,559 Speaker 3: in resources as we did when we were indeed helpless 637 00:35:03,559 --> 00:35:09,959 Speaker 3: and lacking in resources, even though now we're not. Oh, Laurie, 638 00:35:09,959 --> 00:35:12,879 Speaker 3: I am so curious to hear what's happened for him 639 00:35:12,879 --> 00:35:13,759 Speaker 3: and where he is now. 640 00:35:14,439 --> 00:35:17,359 Speaker 11: Hey Luri, Hey guy, hope you're doing well. It's Jeff. 641 00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:19,679 Speaker 11: It's been close to a year since we last spoke, 642 00:35:19,799 --> 00:35:22,039 Speaker 11: so just wanted to send a message to check in 643 00:35:22,079 --> 00:35:24,879 Speaker 11: and give you an update on things. You may recall 644 00:35:24,999 --> 00:35:28,199 Speaker 11: the conversation with my mother not going too great, and 645 00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:30,279 Speaker 11: I was feeling pretty defeated afterwards. 646 00:35:31,439 --> 00:35:31,599 Speaker 1: Guy. 647 00:35:31,639 --> 00:35:33,799 Speaker 11: I think it was you that mentioned when I had 648 00:35:33,799 --> 00:35:37,439 Speaker 11: those conversations with my parents the measure of success wouldn't 649 00:35:37,439 --> 00:35:40,079 Speaker 11: be how they responded in the moment, but how their 650 00:35:40,119 --> 00:35:44,559 Speaker 11: behavior changed in the future. Well, I'm relieved to report 651 00:35:44,599 --> 00:35:48,799 Speaker 11: that there has been pretty significant progress since then. A 652 00:35:48,879 --> 00:35:51,599 Speaker 11: couple of weeks or so after I had those conversations, 653 00:35:51,839 --> 00:35:55,119 Speaker 11: there was an incident where my folks consciously undermined some 654 00:35:55,199 --> 00:35:58,879 Speaker 11: of Lizani's parenting decisions, and we had to remind them 655 00:35:58,959 --> 00:36:01,959 Speaker 11: that we really need them on our side and to 656 00:36:01,999 --> 00:36:04,799 Speaker 11: have their support. I think they really took it to heart, 657 00:36:04,959 --> 00:36:08,479 Speaker 11: and there really hasn't been much conflict, tension or criticism 658 00:36:08,599 --> 00:36:14,719 Speaker 11: since then. They've been really quite kind thinking back on it, 659 00:36:15,119 --> 00:36:19,119 Speaker 11: if it weren't for having those deeply uncomfortable conversations prior 660 00:36:19,119 --> 00:36:21,799 Speaker 11: to that and laying the groundwork for expressing my needs 661 00:36:21,839 --> 00:36:25,639 Speaker 11: and establishing boundaries, I probably wouldn't have said anything in 662 00:36:25,679 --> 00:36:29,159 Speaker 11: that moment, and it would have just festered, and I 663 00:36:29,279 --> 00:36:32,799 Speaker 11: probably would have become avoidant and tried to limit time 664 00:36:32,839 --> 00:36:38,199 Speaker 11: between them and between us and our child. But I didn't, 665 00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:40,279 Speaker 11: so that's a big win. 666 00:36:41,639 --> 00:36:44,719 Speaker 3: We love that he took that definition of what makes 667 00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:48,679 Speaker 3: a successful conversation to heart. A year ago. His father 668 00:36:48,759 --> 00:36:52,199 Speaker 3: responded well to the conversation, but his mom less, so 669 00:36:52,319 --> 00:36:55,719 Speaker 3: she was a bit dismissive and defensive, kind of as usual. 670 00:36:56,359 --> 00:36:59,599 Speaker 3: The payoff, though, was that it planted the seeds and 671 00:36:59,679 --> 00:37:03,719 Speaker 3: it resulted in her changing her behavior afterwards, and even 672 00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:06,039 Speaker 3: if she didn't, the payoff for Jeff was having the 673 00:37:06,119 --> 00:37:10,039 Speaker 3: courage to state his needs clearly instead of feeling helpless 674 00:37:10,399 --> 00:37:12,919 Speaker 3: or like something was wrong with him for being too sensitive, 675 00:37:12,919 --> 00:37:15,719 Speaker 3: which was what his parents were telling him. But not 676 00:37:15,839 --> 00:37:18,399 Speaker 3: only did he have the courage to speak up, his 677 00:37:18,559 --> 00:37:22,119 Speaker 3: parents really heard him for the first time, and the 678 00:37:22,159 --> 00:37:24,919 Speaker 3: fact that they did is really lovely and it creates 679 00:37:24,959 --> 00:37:27,719 Speaker 3: such a healing experience for him as a new dad, 680 00:37:28,199 --> 00:37:30,879 Speaker 3: and he was able to protect his kid in that way. 681 00:37:30,919 --> 00:37:32,999 Speaker 3: He was able to protect his son in a way 682 00:37:32,999 --> 00:37:36,199 Speaker 3: that he couldn't protect himself from the same hurtful criticism 683 00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:39,479 Speaker 3: when he was younger. So that was a real corrective 684 00:37:39,519 --> 00:37:40,439 Speaker 3: experience for him. 685 00:37:40,799 --> 00:37:43,279 Speaker 1: And sometimes it takes a few rounds of setting boundaries 686 00:37:43,319 --> 00:37:45,879 Speaker 1: and explaining your perspective for the other person to finally 687 00:37:45,919 --> 00:37:50,279 Speaker 1: hear it. But I think that sometimes people keep restating 688 00:37:50,279 --> 00:37:52,799 Speaker 1: the same thing over and over and nothing changes. And 689 00:37:52,839 --> 00:37:55,639 Speaker 1: the difference here was that Jeff did it from a 690 00:37:55,799 --> 00:38:00,679 Speaker 1: place of feeling like the teacher, feeling like he was confident, 691 00:38:00,839 --> 00:38:04,359 Speaker 1: he believed in this, and he had another motive, which 692 00:38:04,399 --> 00:38:06,959 Speaker 1: was I'm going to protect my wife and my kid 693 00:38:06,999 --> 00:38:09,519 Speaker 1: as much as I'm going to protect myself. I think 694 00:38:09,559 --> 00:38:10,839 Speaker 1: that came across this time. 695 00:38:11,479 --> 00:38:13,079 Speaker 3: So let's say more about what happened. 696 00:38:14,319 --> 00:38:17,279 Speaker 11: I've never really been one to go to my parents 697 00:38:17,359 --> 00:38:20,879 Speaker 11: during hard times, whether to ask for help or express 698 00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:25,999 Speaker 11: difficult feelings, probably for a fear of being dismissed or minimized. 699 00:38:26,959 --> 00:38:30,319 Speaker 11: But as you can imagine, becoming a new parent, it's 700 00:38:30,359 --> 00:38:33,999 Speaker 11: been really really hard and for the first time in 701 00:38:34,039 --> 00:38:37,319 Speaker 11: my life, I'm finding it okay to reach out to 702 00:38:37,399 --> 00:38:41,319 Speaker 11: express difficult emotions or to ask for a hand. It's 703 00:38:41,319 --> 00:38:45,199 Speaker 11: starting to feel safe now, for lack of a better word, 704 00:38:46,039 --> 00:38:48,679 Speaker 11: things like you know, oh this happened today and it 705 00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:53,319 Speaker 11: really tested Lizani's patients as parents, or you know, life's 706 00:38:53,359 --> 00:38:56,519 Speaker 11: really overwhelming right now, and I'm struggling some days, and 707 00:38:56,599 --> 00:38:59,879 Speaker 11: I can tell it makes my parents uncomfortable. But just 708 00:38:59,919 --> 00:39:03,679 Speaker 11: like talking about emotions, it feels like it's setting things 709 00:39:03,759 --> 00:39:08,799 Speaker 11: up for a more transparent and honestly, just a more 710 00:39:08,959 --> 00:39:10,039 Speaker 11: human connection. 711 00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:13,439 Speaker 1: People can't see how much we're smiling right now, but 712 00:39:13,519 --> 00:39:17,799 Speaker 1: this makes us so happy because Jeff speaking up here 713 00:39:17,879 --> 00:39:21,559 Speaker 1: didn't only help with the criticism, but it also opened 714 00:39:21,599 --> 00:39:24,399 Speaker 1: up their relationship so that he can confide in his 715 00:39:24,559 --> 00:39:29,319 Speaker 1: parents and have that feel safe for perhaps the first 716 00:39:29,319 --> 00:39:32,679 Speaker 1: time in his life. That is huge, And that's why 717 00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:35,319 Speaker 1: I like these longer follow ups, because certain changes take 718 00:39:35,399 --> 00:39:38,959 Speaker 1: more time. It all started with that one conversation that 719 00:39:39,039 --> 00:39:42,879 Speaker 1: created so much possibility for connection that I think Jeff 720 00:39:42,959 --> 00:39:46,559 Speaker 1: never imagined could happen before, and so when we first 721 00:39:46,559 --> 00:39:50,719 Speaker 1: spoke with him after the episode, he had not felt 722 00:39:50,799 --> 00:39:53,359 Speaker 1: very optimistic about what would happen with his mother, and 723 00:39:53,399 --> 00:39:56,079 Speaker 1: we could see a year later how much has indeed changed. 724 00:39:56,639 --> 00:40:00,599 Speaker 3: By his parents listening to him and becoming less critical, 725 00:40:00,839 --> 00:40:05,119 Speaker 3: it allowed Jeff to risk being more emotionally vulnerable with them, 726 00:40:05,159 --> 00:40:08,959 Speaker 3: which then gave them a place to be as parents, 727 00:40:09,039 --> 00:40:11,919 Speaker 3: which was so much more rewarding for Jeff and so 728 00:40:12,039 --> 00:40:14,639 Speaker 3: much more rewarding for them because now they can really 729 00:40:14,679 --> 00:40:17,599 Speaker 3: add value by being supportive. It gave them a new 730 00:40:17,959 --> 00:40:21,359 Speaker 3: option for how to be parents for this adult man 731 00:40:21,679 --> 00:40:24,319 Speaker 3: in a way that was mutually satisfying that just didn't 732 00:40:24,319 --> 00:40:25,479 Speaker 3: exist before. 733 00:40:26,119 --> 00:40:28,039 Speaker 1: And Jeff had a little bit more to tell us. 734 00:40:29,119 --> 00:40:32,679 Speaker 11: There have also been some positive ripple schroder entire family too. 735 00:40:33,359 --> 00:40:36,439 Speaker 11: My parents seem to be more supportive and empathetic with 736 00:40:36,439 --> 00:40:39,519 Speaker 11: my brothers as well, and in general they're just far 737 00:40:39,599 --> 00:40:43,839 Speaker 11: less quick to judge or be dismissive or overstep. I 738 00:40:43,839 --> 00:40:46,839 Speaker 11: can tell they're really working on it, and I'm really 739 00:40:46,879 --> 00:40:50,599 Speaker 11: proud of them, and I appreciate it so so much. 740 00:40:51,039 --> 00:40:53,439 Speaker 11: Kind of feels like a new chapter in our relationship 741 00:40:53,759 --> 00:40:59,759 Speaker 11: as parents, children and siblings and remembering that it's okay 742 00:40:59,799 --> 00:41:03,639 Speaker 11: to have needs and express them. It takes constant practice 743 00:41:03,839 --> 00:41:07,119 Speaker 11: and will likely be lifelong work for me, but I 744 00:41:07,159 --> 00:41:09,479 Speaker 11: just wanted to say thanks again for your help the 745 00:41:09,559 --> 00:41:12,439 Speaker 11: nudge to get me going in the right direction. It's 746 00:41:12,559 --> 00:41:16,599 Speaker 11: getting much easier with practice, so thanks again, Lourie. Thanks 747 00:41:16,599 --> 00:41:17,159 Speaker 11: Guy By. 748 00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:20,999 Speaker 1: Now, part of the advice we gave Jeff was to 749 00:41:21,079 --> 00:41:25,159 Speaker 1: think of himself as his parents teacher, because he would 750 00:41:25,159 --> 00:41:28,799 Speaker 1: get very nervous confronting them, and we wanted him to 751 00:41:28,799 --> 00:41:32,399 Speaker 1: come from the place of teaching them about an area 752 00:41:32,559 --> 00:41:35,399 Speaker 1: that they didn't know a lot about, which were emotions. 753 00:41:35,799 --> 00:41:38,159 Speaker 1: And here he is now saying that he's proud of 754 00:41:38,199 --> 00:41:41,279 Speaker 1: his parents, who were basically his students. So Jeff was 755 00:41:41,279 --> 00:41:43,879 Speaker 1: a great teacher because not only did his students, which 756 00:41:43,879 --> 00:41:46,639 Speaker 1: are his parents, apply their lessons to Jeff and his 757 00:41:46,679 --> 00:41:49,719 Speaker 1: wife and his child, but they also applied it to 758 00:41:49,799 --> 00:41:54,319 Speaker 1: Jeff's brothers. So everyone in the family has benefited, and 759 00:41:54,399 --> 00:41:56,479 Speaker 1: including the parents who get the benefit of having a 760 00:41:56,519 --> 00:41:59,759 Speaker 1: closer relationship with all of their children and maybe even 761 00:41:59,799 --> 00:42:01,839 Speaker 1: with each other in the marriage because now that they're 762 00:42:01,879 --> 00:42:05,159 Speaker 1: talking about emotions, I can imagine that that has had 763 00:42:05,199 --> 00:42:07,879 Speaker 1: some kind of ripple effect between the parents and their 764 00:42:07,919 --> 00:42:10,879 Speaker 1: marriage as well. He's done a service to everyone by 765 00:42:10,919 --> 00:42:14,079 Speaker 1: speaking up and embracing the feelings that he used to 766 00:42:14,159 --> 00:42:15,599 Speaker 1: be so ashamed of having. 767 00:42:16,639 --> 00:42:19,959 Speaker 3: And that's why therapists think of families as systems, because 768 00:42:19,959 --> 00:42:23,319 Speaker 3: in a system, if you do something, if you change 769 00:42:23,319 --> 00:42:27,879 Speaker 3: a dynamic, it does ripple across the system and affects 770 00:42:27,919 --> 00:42:31,239 Speaker 3: everyone in that system. I'm sure his parents are feeling 771 00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:33,999 Speaker 3: that difference in their marriage, and the fact that they 772 00:42:33,999 --> 00:42:36,639 Speaker 3: were able to apply these lessons that Jeff taught them 773 00:42:36,759 --> 00:42:40,839 Speaker 3: to his brothers might be the most heartwarming of all 774 00:42:40,959 --> 00:42:44,879 Speaker 3: because that just shows how deeply they've internalized that message. 775 00:42:44,919 --> 00:42:47,079 Speaker 3: So Teacher of the Year to Jeff. 776 00:42:47,919 --> 00:42:50,799 Speaker 1: It was so great getting these follow ups, and we're 777 00:42:50,799 --> 00:42:52,599 Speaker 1: going to go back to our regular sessions in the 778 00:42:52,639 --> 00:42:56,199 Speaker 1: coming episodes, but we will be bringing you more of 779 00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:59,439 Speaker 1: these where are They Now episodes from season one, and 780 00:43:00,119 --> 00:43:03,479 Speaker 1: we can't wait to hear how the others are doing. 781 00:43:03,639 --> 00:43:06,399 Speaker 1: So make sure that you subscribe to our podcast for 782 00:43:06,519 --> 00:43:09,239 Speaker 1: free so that you don't miss any of the episode. 783 00:43:10,119 --> 00:43:12,279 Speaker 3: This was so much fun, Laurie. I mean, I felt 784 00:43:12,319 --> 00:43:15,399 Speaker 3: like I was visiting with old friends, and I wish 785 00:43:15,519 --> 00:43:18,199 Speaker 3: all of them well, and I'm so glad to hear 786 00:43:18,279 --> 00:43:21,319 Speaker 3: that so far they're doing well, and I cannot wait 787 00:43:21,639 --> 00:43:29,119 Speaker 3: to hear the rest me too next week. A woman 788 00:43:29,159 --> 00:43:31,199 Speaker 3: feels the burden of being caught in the middle when 789 00:43:31,199 --> 00:43:34,239 Speaker 3: her parents divorce. Up to almost forty years she. 790 00:43:34,359 --> 00:43:37,679 Speaker 9: Was basically saying, I can't be with him anymore. I 791 00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:40,119 Speaker 9: don't even like him anymore. I don't think I'm in 792 00:43:40,119 --> 00:43:40,599 Speaker 9: love with him. 793 00:43:40,599 --> 00:43:42,599 Speaker 5: I don't even want to have sack with them anymore. 794 00:43:43,279 --> 00:43:47,559 Speaker 1: Way too much information. Yeah, Hey, fellow travelers, if you're 795 00:43:47,639 --> 00:43:50,679 Speaker 1: enjoying our podcast each week, don't forget to subscribe for 796 00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:53,759 Speaker 1: free so that you don't miss any episodes, and please 797 00:43:53,839 --> 00:43:56,519 Speaker 1: help support Dear Therapists by telling your friends about it 798 00:43:56,679 --> 00:43:59,839 Speaker 1: and leaving a review on Apple Podcasts. Your reviews really 799 00:43:59,879 --> 00:44:01,079 Speaker 1: help people to find the show. 800 00:44:01,679 --> 00:44:03,639 Speaker 3: If you have a dilemma you'd like to discuss with 801 00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:07,479 Speaker 3: us by go smooth, email us at Lorian Guy at 802 00:44:07,559 --> 00:44:09,119 Speaker 3: iHeartMedia dot com. 803 00:44:09,399 --> 00:44:12,959 Speaker 1: Our executive producer is Noel Brown. We're produced and edited 804 00:44:12,999 --> 00:44:17,199 Speaker 1: by Mike Johns, Josh Fisher, and Chris Childs. Our interns 805 00:44:17,199 --> 00:44:20,719 Speaker 1: are Doric Corwin and Silver Lifton. Special thanks to Alison 806 00:44:20,799 --> 00:44:24,279 Speaker 1: Wright and to our podcast fairy Godmother Katie Couric. 807 00:44:24,959 --> 00:44:27,239 Speaker 3: We can't wait to see you at next week's session. 808 00:44:27,479 --> 00:44:30,399 Speaker 1: Dear Therapist is a production of iHeartRadio.