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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here

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Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 1: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 1: the studio ad staff, give you, guys, the best independent

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Speaker 1: coverage that is possible. If you like what we're all about,

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Speaker 1: it just means the absolute world to have your support.

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Speaker 1: But enough with that, let's get to the show. Good morning, everybody,

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Speaker 1: Happy Tuesday. We have an amazing show for everybody today.

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Speaker 1: What do we have, Crystal? Indeed we do. Will today

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Speaker 1: be the day that Trump gets indicted? Some indicators pointing

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Speaker 1: in both directions, So we'll break all of that down

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Speaker 1: for you, as well as a little bit of the

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Speaker 1: process of just how exactly this is all going to work.

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Speaker 1: Is he gonna be handcuffed? Is he not gonna be handcuffed?

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Speaker 1: What will this all look like? Also, Ronda Santis finally

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Speaker 1: breaking his side lence about the imminent Trump indictment, kind

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Speaker 1: of making things worse for himself in a way, I think, really,

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Speaker 1: I think. So yeah, we'll let you decide. We'll play

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Speaker 1: the comments and you guys can see what you think.

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Speaker 1: France really on the brink today after Matt Crone's government

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Speaker 1: barely surviving a vote of no confidence. The people, I

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Speaker 1: mean seventy five percent of France completely outraged about his

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Speaker 1: quote unquote pension reform changing the retirement age from sixty

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Speaker 1: two to sixty four in a very undemocratic fashion as well,

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Speaker 1: So we'll tell you all about that some press room

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Speaker 1: chaos yesterday. That Saga was particularly interested in mainstream reporters

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Speaker 1: rushing to the defense of cream Jean Pierre lest you know,

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Speaker 1: one of their colleagues get out of line and be

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Speaker 1: in lack proper decorum within the press briefing setting. So

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Speaker 1: we've got that video for you. Also, PBS did a

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Speaker 1: little documentary following around doctor Fauci as he was trying

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Speaker 1: to persuade people to go out and get facts, and

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Speaker 1: there was quite an interesting interaction that got a lot

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Speaker 1: of people' attend We will show you that as well.

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Speaker 1: We also are happy to have a doctor true to

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Speaker 1: Parsi in studio with us today to talk about the

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Speaker 1: event we're doing together. Remember twenty years of the Iraq War,

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Speaker 1: how exactly the media failed us and what if anything

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Speaker 1: did they learn from that? And He also wanted to

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Speaker 1: talk a little bit about, you know, in connection with

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Speaker 1: the rock and the media not really learning their lessons,

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Speaker 1: the way the Ukraine War has been covered and the

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Speaker 1: role that the US has just recently played that we

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Speaker 1: covered yesterday in blocking any potential ceasefire if it is

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Speaker 1: suggested by China. Before we get to any of that though,

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Speaker 1: Spotify Video. That's right. Thank you very much to our

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Speaker 1: premium members who've been signing up for Spotify and have

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Speaker 1: been using their premium feed to get the full show

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Speaker 1: and audio. I know a lot of you guys have

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Speaker 1: really been enjoying it. So just a reminder breaking Points

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Speaker 1: dot com if you want to become a premium member

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Speaker 1: and you get the full video and the audio. So

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Speaker 1: I know that a lot of you have been using that.

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Speaker 1: It's been really fun to see the numbers. We are

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Speaker 1: one of the biggest gated podcasts on Spotify, I'm told.

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Speaker 1: So thank you all very much. Shout out to you guys. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there we go, absolutely Breakingpoints dot Com to become a

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Speaker 1: premium subscriber so you can take advantage of Spotify Video.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's get to the big story of the day.

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Speaker 1: Will he or won't he be indicted. I'm course, of

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Speaker 1: course talking about Donald Trump. Manhattan, DA looks like imminently

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Speaker 1: they are going to arrest and charge Trump with something

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Speaker 1: related to the whole Stormy Daniel's hush money payment situation.

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Speaker 1: As we broke down yesterday, it's really sort of a

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Speaker 1: combination of two pieces here. There's an outright business fraud

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Speaker 1: of recording the payment as something that it wasn't really

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Speaker 1: on the books, and then the way that they get

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Speaker 1: it from being a misdemeanor to potentially a felony. And

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Speaker 1: this is all, you know, speculative until we actually see

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Speaker 1: what the charges are. But the way they get it

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Speaker 1: to a felony is by arguing this was in service

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Speaker 1: of another crime, which was a campaign finance violation. The

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Speaker 1: argument here, the theory here is that Trump's campaign, as

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Speaker 1: he was running for presidents way back in twenty sixteen,

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Speaker 1: got a huge benefit from these hush money payments. This

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Speaker 1: was of course not recorded in terms of their books,

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Speaker 1: and it would have been a contribution over the limit

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Speaker 1: if it had been. Okay, So that is the legal

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Speaker 1: theory of the case. We have some contradictory indications this

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Speaker 1: morning about the timing of this potential indictment. Everybody seems

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Speaker 1: to think it continues to be imminent in could be today,

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Speaker 1: could be the next coming days, could potentially be next week.

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Speaker 1: But I think this is coming sooner rather than later.

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Speaker 1: The first one is that all NYPD officers, including plainclothes detectives,

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Speaker 1: have actually been ordered to wear their full uniform today

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Speaker 1: starting at seven am, ahead of a possible indictment. This

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Speaker 1: is from a CBS News reporter, So that's one piece,

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Speaker 1: is okay, maybe this is coming today. On the other hand,

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Speaker 1: Robert Costa with also with CBS News. I thought he

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Speaker 1: was with the Washington Post. I guess it was a

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Speaker 1: while ago. Anyway, Trump's team did not hear from prosecutors

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Speaker 1: this evening. That was last night, according to Susan Nickels,

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Speaker 1: an indication that no indictment was made today. So is

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Speaker 1: it going to happen a day Is it going to

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Speaker 1: happen tomorrow? Is it going to happen a few day

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Speaker 1: from now? Nobody really knows. We have some additional reporting

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Speaker 1: to I'll get to in a moment, but let's go

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Speaker 1: and put our first element up on the screen from

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Speaker 1: the New York Times about what this would all look like.

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Speaker 1: The headline here is New York authorities prepare for unprecedented

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Speaker 1: arrest of an ex president head of a likely indictment.

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Speaker 1: Law enforcement officials are making security plans as some of

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump's supporters signaled that they intend to protest. More

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Speaker 1: on that in a moment they talk about in this article,

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Speaker 1: you know, Trump would be fingerprinted, he would be photographed, photographed,

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Speaker 1: He could even be handcuffed. If he is indicted by

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Speaker 1: Manhattan Grand jury and the days ahead for his role

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Speaker 1: in hush money payment to a porn star. The former

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Speaker 1: president of the United States will be read the standard

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Speaker 1: miranda warning. He'll be told he has the right to

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Speaker 1: remain silent and the right to an attorney. And the

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Speaker 1: wake of mister Trump's public call for action, there were

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Speaker 1: some scattered signs his followers were planning to protest on

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Speaker 1: his behalf. So far that hasn't really amounted to a

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Speaker 1: whole lot, But we'll see, you know, if it scales up.

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Speaker 1: And in terms of whether or not he'll be handcuffed,

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Speaker 1: that's sort of like, you know, they can make that decision.

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Speaker 1: They could handcuff them behind us back. Sometimes white collar defendants,

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Speaker 1: they say are handcuffed in front of them, and they

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Speaker 1: could also make the decision just not to do that whatsoever.

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Speaker 1: It is expected, this has been reported out that Trump

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Speaker 1: will surrender himself, so you know, that makes some of

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Speaker 1: the point of whether they would have to, like, you know,

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Speaker 1: force the next tradition from Florida or something insane like that.

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Speaker 1: But listen with this dude, you just never know what

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Speaker 1: he's going to decide to do in the moment. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we have no idea how any of this is going

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Speaker 1: to go down. And the preparations though, is that clearly

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Speaker 1: New York authorities are preparing for the worst. We had

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Speaker 1: some video actually from the scene yesterday. Yeah, yes, you

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Speaker 1: can see there. This is the NYPD unloading barricades to

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Speaker 1: surround digit Attorney's office at courthouse and elsewhere. Couple that,

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Speaker 1: I think, Cristle with the report that you read this

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Speaker 1: morning about the NYPD officers being told to dress in

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Speaker 1: full uniform. They're expecting quite a bit of protesters, but

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Speaker 1: said protesters have not yet materialized, so we don't yet

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Speaker 1: know what's happening. Yes, that is correct. We also have

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Speaker 1: go ahead and put this next piece up on the screen,

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Speaker 1: just some additional reporting about potential timing here. This is

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Speaker 1: from Politico. They say that Trump indictment could land soon,

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Speaker 1: sending law enforcement scrambling. A grand jury is expected to

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Speaker 1: charge Trump within days, according to three people involved in

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Speaker 1: the deliberations. Now, according to Politico, they say an indictment

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Speaker 1: by grand jury is expected late Monday or Wednesday. Well,

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Speaker 1: Monday past there was no indictment, so perhaps it will

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Speaker 1: happen Wednesday. This is according to three people involved in

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Speaker 1: the deliberation. Deliberations, there was one final person who apparently

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Speaker 1: was scheduled to testify before the grand jury Monday afternoon.

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Speaker 1: There was an expectation that Michael Cohen then might be

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Speaker 1: brought back to rebut that witness, but that apparently didn't happen.

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Speaker 1: I think all of this Sogren. Why we wanted to

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Speaker 1: cover it is just to underscore even though the details

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Speaker 1: of this case have been hashed over again and again,

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Speaker 1: it really feels like old news. The specter of a

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Speaker 1: former president being indicted is I mean, it's historic, like

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Speaker 1: this is a first in history. It's a remarkable, unbelievable moment,

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Speaker 1: and you know, to see how this all unfolds him

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Speaker 1: to think about Okay, they're considering whether or not to

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Speaker 1: handcuff him and he's going to be read as Miranda

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Speaker 1: rights and he's going to be fingerprinted. To me, really

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Speaker 1: brought home the kind of gravity and seriousness of the situation.

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Speaker 1: I'm glad you said that because we have to be

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Speaker 1: able to separate out and I think we both have

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Speaker 1: said we're like, look on the merits, you know, it

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Speaker 1: looks like a weaker case politically, think kind of a

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Speaker 1: disaster to be this this is really the one that

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Speaker 1: you want to go with. We're talking about bookkeeping fraud

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Speaker 1: with a very extraordinary interpretation of the law. Good luck,

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Speaker 1: we'll see how that actually works out before a judge.

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Speaker 1: Let's put that aside. Just the act of simply arresting

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Speaker 1: the former president is something that we have gone out

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Speaker 1: of our way to avoid here in the United States

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Speaker 1: for literally hundreds of years, especially going back to what

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Speaker 1: like Andrew Johnson and then of course a Nixon administration.

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Speaker 1: Whenever we think about Gerald Fords at the time unpopular

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Speaker 1: decisions basically pardon Nixon for all crimes and to prevent

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Speaker 1: the Justice Department forever trying to indict even a current president.

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Speaker 1: A lot of these norms and all these things were

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Speaker 1: set in place, even though, look, they don't pass the

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Speaker 1: smell test in terms of yes, technically, he's a private

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Speaker 1: citizen blood, he's an active candidate, and he's a foreign president,

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Speaker 1: and he has a large constituency. So it's an extraordinary

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Speaker 1: act regardless of what it is. So we have no

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Speaker 1: choice but to get into the nitty gritty of the

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Speaker 1: bookkeeping fraud, of the exact nature of the payment, of

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Speaker 1: whether Michael Cohen was charged or call before the grand

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Speaker 1: jury or not. I found that a little bit interesting.

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Speaker 1: I'm curious your interpretation. The fact was that he made

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Speaker 1: himself available to the grand jury for two hours. They

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Speaker 1: did not end up calling him, which means I guess

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Speaker 1: to me currently that they will not be pursuing in

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Speaker 1: any way the campaign finance allegation, even with respect to

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Speaker 1: the way that it would relate to the bookkeeping fraud

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Speaker 1: that is there. At least that's a legal interpretation that

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Speaker 1: I also saw that was out there, because if they

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Speaker 1: had that would have been materially important to the cover up,

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Speaker 1: so to speak. But we also know that other members

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Speaker 1: of the Trump organization have been cooperating with federal authorities,

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Speaker 1: and you know, mary other legal cases on top of

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Speaker 1: tax Rod and others, was possible that they also their

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Speaker 1: testimony may be material to this as well. Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I genuinely don't know. My understanding was that the witness

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Speaker 1: who had been called before, who was once advised Michael Cohen,

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Speaker 1: who was also a lawyer, This guy, Robert Costello is

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Speaker 1: his name, he was brought in to kind of call

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Speaker 1: Michael Cohen's character in question, which I didn't think is

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Speaker 1: a particularly difficult thing to do jail time for some

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Speaker 1: of the same, you know, similar charges. So anyway, I

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Speaker 1: think the idea was Michael Cohen could then come back

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Speaker 1: in and sort of re establish himself as a credible character.

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Speaker 1: Was my understanding. But you know, it's very hard to

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Speaker 1: know from the outside what exactly is going on here

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Speaker 1: and why the decision was made to not bring Michael

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Speaker 1: Cohen back in. Perhaps they just felt that they didn't

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Speaker 1: need him in order to secure the intapement state that

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Speaker 1: they are looking for with regards to the protests. You'll

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Speaker 1: recall in the infamous truth Social Truth post where Trump said,

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Speaker 1: you know, he expected to be indicted on Tuesday, and

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Speaker 1: the very last part of that called on his supporters

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Speaker 1: to come out and protest and quote take America back,

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Speaker 1: I think was the language that he used. There was

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Speaker 1: a lot of concern that, you know, you could have

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Speaker 1: a real sort of you know, violent protest, large scale

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Speaker 1: protests could still happen. So far it has none. Let's

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Speaker 1: go and put this up on the screen. So this

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Speaker 1: is Ben Collins. He says he's at the pro Trump

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Speaker 1: protest put on by the New York Young Republicans Club.

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Speaker 1: Not a joke. There are more reporters here than Trump supporters.

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Speaker 1: This was supposed to be the big one. And Sager

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Speaker 1: and I were both choking about how many of those

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Speaker 1: so called protesters are actually Feds. I think he's also

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Speaker 1: a reasonable question to ask. I think you take out

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Speaker 1: the so called the take out the Feds, and there's

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Speaker 1: maybe like one guy the entire crowd, just the president

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Speaker 1: of the New York Republican Club. Is that that's it? Okay? Well?

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Speaker 1: According to Ben also he said it's just a bunch

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Speaker 1: of cameras taking picture of a guy who's putting on

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Speaker 1: a rat suit next to a guitar with the words

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Speaker 1: hang Fauci on it. And this was supposed to start

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Speaker 1: a half hour. Look, we have no idea how it's

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Speaker 1: going to go. It's also possible that many Trump supporters,

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Speaker 1: even though they may be outraged having seen the events

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Speaker 1: of January sixth, or like, well, maybe we won't be

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Speaker 1: going at the same time. Look, he also hasn't actually

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Speaker 1: been indicted yet, so this not technically something to protest. Now,

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Speaker 1: you should hang on with those words, because that's kind

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Speaker 1: of the excuse that a lot of people who are

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Speaker 1: defending Ron DeSantis are using. But I think that there's

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Speaker 1: something materially different about a GOP leader and then somebody

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Speaker 1: actually coming out to protest something based on the reaction. Look,

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Speaker 1: we have no idea, right. I do not think though,

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Speaker 1: that people should read it as some sort of acquiescence

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Speaker 1: by the Republican base. You know, you can be outraged

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Speaker 1: about something and not technically necessarily take to the streets,

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Speaker 1: especially after what happened on January sixth, So I don't

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Speaker 1: think people should read it as him losing his power,

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Speaker 1: although you know, it is certainly a noteworthy event, and

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Speaker 1: ultimately we can't really make that call until well after

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Speaker 1: whatever happens with this indictment, and then even you know

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Speaker 1: how the judge will handle it if there is even

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Speaker 1: a trial or you know, prison or any of these

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Speaker 1: other things that we have to speculate on. It's just

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Speaker 1: I think it's too early to say it. I just

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Speaker 1: do think it is humorous though that the media also,

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Speaker 1: the number of cameras there shows you like they want

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Speaker 1: this to be a thing. They're like, oh, we got

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Speaker 1: to get everybody down there. There's gonna be such a

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Speaker 1: massive story. And they show up, and it's kind of

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Speaker 1: like that other rally that we covered here where you know,

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Speaker 1: it was supposedly some big right wing protests, and all

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Speaker 1: that really came out of it is it seemed like

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Speaker 1: there were a bunch of Feds that were there undercover, marching,

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Speaker 1: marching around and clearly like the most the most like

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Speaker 1: tailtale haircut that anybody had ever seen. Yeah, yeah, that's right.

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Speaker 1: I forgot about that. Some of the reporting suggests that

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Speaker 1: actually some Republicans were concerned that the protest could be

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Speaker 1: basically a trap. You know, there's a lot of concern

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Speaker 1: about what exactly you know, might have unfolded if they

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Speaker 1: did show up, So that may be part of why

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Speaker 1: so far there hasn't been much to emerge. There's also

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Speaker 1: just like the logistical challenge of this all happened really quickly,

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Speaker 1: whereas with January sixth, there was a long time to

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Speaker 1: sort of like for the Oathkeepers and the Proud Boys

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Speaker 1: to get their plans together and gather their weapons and

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Speaker 1: plan you know, their hotel rooms and all that stuff.

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Speaker 1: So anyway, I don't want to say nothing's going to happen,

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Speaker 1: but so far the protests that have been planned have

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Speaker 1: not amounted too much, if anything. Yeah, I think that

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Speaker 1: that's where we'll leave it. So we have no idea.

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Speaker 1: We have indications in many size. The fact that he

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Speaker 1: wasn't notified until last night means it may not come

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Speaker 1: this morning, but it could come tonight. You know, it

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Speaker 1: could be one of those that is a major breaking event.

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Speaker 1: So we'll see what happens. We'll be watching, as I said,

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Speaker 1: as Trump always used to like to say when he

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Speaker 1: was president. So let's move on now and talk about

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Speaker 1: mister Ron DeSantis. And there has been an extraordinary civil

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Speaker 1: war kind of breaking out online. But I don't we

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Speaker 1: should think we should say that it's merely in the

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Speaker 1: online category, because it has real world consequences. There have

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Speaker 1: been calls by the Trump campaign people around President Trump

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Speaker 1: for Ron DeSantis to come out and to defend President

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Speaker 1: Trump against any possible indictment, to say that he will

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Speaker 1: not extradite the president, or at the very least rhetorically

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Speaker 1: say something about it. DeSantis, while giving a press conference

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Speaker 1: yesterday in Florida, was finally asked about this after silence

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Speaker 1: over the weekend, and he's trying to have it both ways.

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Speaker 1: We're going to play for you the full clip of

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Speaker 1: his answer. On the one hand, he takes a dig

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Speaker 1: at Trump about any payments to a porn star. On

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Speaker 1: the other, on the substance, he tries to attack with

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Speaker 1: the DA Here's what he had to say. So, I've

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Speaker 1: seen rumors swirl, I have not seen any facts yet,

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Speaker 1: and so I don't know what's going to happen. But

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Speaker 1: I do know this. The Manhattan District Attorney is a

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Speaker 1: Soros funded prosecutor, and so he, like other Soros funded prosecutors,

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Speaker 1: they weaponize their office to impose a political agenda on

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Speaker 1: society at the expense of the rule of law. In

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Speaker 1: public safety, he has downgraded over fifty percent of the

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Speaker 1: felonies to misdemeanors. He says he doesn't want to even

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Speaker 1: have jail time for the vast vast majority of crimes.

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Speaker 1: And what we've seen in Manhattan is we've seen the

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Speaker 1: scott the crime rate go up, and we've seen citizens

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Speaker 1: become less safe. And so you're talking about this situation

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Speaker 1: with and like, I don't know what goes into paying

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Speaker 1: hush money to a porn star to secure silence over

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Speaker 1: some type of alleged affair. I just I can't speak

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Speaker 1: to that, can't speak to that. Calling it a circus,

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Speaker 1: We're not going to have any part of it. Tries

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Speaker 1: to have it his way and attack the Manhattan DA.

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Speaker 1: This just shows him. Also, what's another word that you

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Speaker 1: didn't hear, literally wants throughout the entire thing the name Trump.

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Speaker 1: It seems like he's allergic to actually saying the man's name.

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Speaker 1: He really wants to be in some situation where he

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Speaker 1: can like maneuver around and sure like on the substance

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Speaker 1: like maybe he's right about the Soros DA and all

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Speaker 1: of that. I've seen that line of attack, but specifically

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Speaker 1: not willing to defend Trump on those merits or call

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Speaker 1: it a political prosecution, not take any stand or in

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Speaker 1: defense of the former president. Let's just say Trump certainly

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Speaker 1: is going to take notice and that's exactly what he

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Speaker 1: did in the most Trumpian manner possible. Let's go ahead

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Speaker 1: and put this up there on the screen. So he

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Speaker 1: tweets out truths out. I'm sorry, I'm still getting used

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Speaker 1: to that, he says, quote Ron dasanctimonious will probably find

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Speaker 1: out about false accusations and fake stories sometime in the

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Speaker 1: future as he gets older, wiser, and better known. When

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Speaker 1: he's unfairly and illegally attacked by a woman, even classmates

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Speaker 1: that are quote underage or possibly a man, I'm sure

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Speaker 1: he will want to fight these misfits just like I do.

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Speaker 1: What he did is he effectively quote truthed a photo

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Speaker 1: of Ron DeSantis allegedly partying with underage girls at a

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Speaker 1: drinking party while he was teaching at a Georgia school. So, Crystal,

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Speaker 1: he not only is intimating that DeSantis is a pedophile,

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Speaker 1: but also possibly a gay pedophile. Yes, that was his

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Speaker 1: response to the former governor, or, sorry, the current governor

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Speaker 1: of Florida. I mean, look, this is middage Trump. You

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Speaker 1: can't help but laugh. It also just shows you with Trump,

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Speaker 1: I mean whenever, So you know, just Santis is like, well,

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Speaker 1: let me get to the substance of like the source

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Speaker 1: DA and all this, try and you know, find this

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Speaker 1: third way for me politically. And Trump is just like, actually, Ron,

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Speaker 1: you're a gay pedophile. And you're like, what do you

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Speaker 1: say to that? You do that? But what does he

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Speaker 1: call it? The silly circus or the silly season? Silly season?

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Speaker 1: It's silly. I'm sorry, that's weak. It's weak. It I mean,

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Speaker 1: I can't help but laugh. And I mean it's fun

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Speaker 1: at the fact that Trump puts out the truth that's

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Speaker 1: like already going hard basically, you know, it's like suggesting

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Speaker 1: he's gay, and then he deletes it. Now, most normal

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Speaker 1: people when they put on a social media post and

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Speaker 1: then they pull it back, it's like, maybe I went

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Speaker 1: too fast. I shouldn't have right, I shouldn't know that

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Speaker 1: it was does too far, you know, I should I

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Speaker 1: should reel it in a little bit. No, with Trump,

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Speaker 1: it's like I messed up. I didn't put in the

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Speaker 1: groomer allocations. I forgot to call him also a pedophile.

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Speaker 1: He's not just gay, he's also a pedophile. And listen,

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Speaker 1: here's the thing with Trump, this is what he forces

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Speaker 1: in terms of a Republican primary, in terms of American

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Speaker 1: society whatever, there is no third way, right, I mean,

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Speaker 1: people found this out was stop the Steal. You talked

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Speaker 1: about this a lot sogger, this whole idea that all

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Speaker 1: we could do like a high brow stop the steal

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Speaker 1: type of thing, like do what Josh Holly was trying

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Speaker 1: to do, whatj Vake Ramaswami is still trying to do. No,

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Speaker 1: you are either with him or you're not. That's what

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Speaker 1: he creates. So this notion that Ron DeSantis is trying to, like, well,

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Speaker 1: let me carefully craft this talking point that takes a

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Speaker 1: little jab at Trump over here, but then has all

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Speaker 1: the Soros da language over No, not gonna work. You

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Speaker 1: are going to have to figure out how are you

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Speaker 1: going to play this. Are you going to just you know,

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Speaker 1: not go after him and hope that these indictments and

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Speaker 1: whatever else happens in silly season takes him down, or

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Speaker 1: are you gonna actually directly go at him and yourself

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Speaker 1: because no one's going to do this work for you.

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Speaker 1: Muster a case against the former president that is going

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Speaker 1: to be compelling to a Republican base. And he still

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Speaker 1: seems to not really know how he's going to figure

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Speaker 1: this out, and listen. This is when it's the easiest.

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Speaker 1: It's not getting any easier from here. You've got time

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Speaker 1: to workshop your talking points. I mean forty eight hours. Man,

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Speaker 1: how long did they spend with his you know, press

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Speaker 1: team figuring out Wordsmith? Okay, here's how we're going to play,

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Speaker 1: and here's what we're going to say. This was all

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Speaker 1: very very rehearsed. What are you going to do with

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Speaker 1: you when you're on a debate stage with this student

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Speaker 1: he's calling you a groomer whatever else he throws at you. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, and you know you okay, you see the

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Speaker 1: groomer attack. How you could prepare for that? You know,

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Speaker 1: he's going to throw something at you that you have

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Speaker 1: no nobody who's going to see coming, because that's just

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Speaker 1: what he is. He is an agent of chaos. And

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Speaker 1: I see zero sign that DeSantis is really ready to do.

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Speaker 1: I do think that there is a way to handle it,

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Speaker 1: and unfortunately it's not one that would be politically viable.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I've always thought that one of the worst

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Speaker 1: things that Takes Crews ever did is whenever he was

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Speaker 1: not he was like, hey, Donald, get my wife's name,

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Speaker 1: you know, in almost like a Will Smith type thing

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Speaker 1: like get my wife's name out of your mouth. Don't

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Speaker 1: you dare talk about my wife, you know, and then

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Speaker 1: just actually make a stand, maybe you look at the camera,

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Speaker 1: just big, hey, Donald, screw you. Something like that actually

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Speaker 1: would have been a strong response. Instead he gave some

428
00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:21,719
Speaker 1: like mealy mouth thing and at the end he's like, Donald,

429
00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:24,560
Speaker 1: leave Heidi alone. And by that time everyone's like, oh

430
00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:27,840
Speaker 1: my god. And then with the endorsement that ended up happening,

431
00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:30,639
Speaker 1: the famous photo of him phone banking for Trump. I mean,

432
00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:33,160
Speaker 1: you just look, you can never ever have a real

433
00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:35,720
Speaker 1: stand against this person again. And I do think also

434
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:38,639
Speaker 1: with DeSantis at this point, like the gauntlet has been thrown.

435
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,320
Speaker 1: The gauntlet is down, Like he's called you a pedophile already,

436
00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:43,760
Speaker 1: now you're a gay pedophile. He's gone after you in

437
00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:46,920
Speaker 1: so many different respects, and you're both trying to find

438
00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:50,920
Speaker 1: this middle ground where look viable path for Ron DeSantis

439
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:52,879
Speaker 1: in any primary? What do we know? He is not

440
00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:56,080
Speaker 1: winning an outright majority in any way, even of people

441
00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:58,400
Speaker 1: who are skeptical of Trump, because all of those people

442
00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:01,000
Speaker 1: are split, as we showed you in those yesterday. His

443
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:03,439
Speaker 1: only path to victory is to shore up all of

444
00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:05,359
Speaker 1: the people who are willing to move on from Trump,

445
00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:07,720
Speaker 1: and even amongst those they actually still like Trump, they're

446
00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:09,520
Speaker 1: just willing to move on from him. And then people

447
00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:13,760
Speaker 1: who are absolutely one hundred percent behind him. How is

448
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:16,159
Speaker 1: that really possible. I mean, there's no way to do

449
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:19,080
Speaker 1: it without convincing them that they're strong, that he is

450
00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:22,040
Speaker 1: an agent also of the chaos against the liberal establishment,

451
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:25,040
Speaker 1: whom they hate so much. I think that they correctly

452
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:26,560
Speaker 1: read this as weakness, and I think that's why his

453
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:28,879
Speaker 1: poll numbers have gone down significantly in the last two months.

454
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:33,000
Speaker 1: I also want to note that the Groomer allegations obviously

455
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:35,560
Speaker 1: grab our attention get all the headlines, but Trump is

456
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:40,720
Speaker 1: also starting to muster a policy case against DeSantis as well.

457
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:44,520
Speaker 1: This was flagged for me by a friend from Florida Politics.

458
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:48,399
Speaker 1: Trump says Florida has the worst insurance scam in the US.

459
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:52,000
Speaker 1: He said this was on true social he said, in

460
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,600
Speaker 1: addition to wanting to cut Social Security and raise the

461
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:57,960
Speaker 1: minimum age to at least seventy and Medicare, Rhino Ronda

462
00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:02,639
Speaker 1: sanctimonious is delivering the big insurance company bailout to globalist

463
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:06,600
Speaker 1: insurance companies in history. He's also crushed Florida homeowners whose

464
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:09,040
Speaker 1: houses were destroyed in the hurricane. They are getting pennies

465
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:12,080
Speaker 1: on the dollar. His insurance commissioner does nothing while Florida's

466
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:15,560
Speaker 1: lives are ruined. This is the worst insurance scam in

467
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:19,360
Speaker 1: the entire country. So this has to do with basically

468
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:21,919
Speaker 1: like homeowners insurance in the state of Florida, and you know,

469
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:27,480
Speaker 1: for catastrophic situations. So he's going after him on economic

470
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:31,080
Speaker 1: policy substance as well. So to your point, Zager, about

471
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,399
Speaker 1: the gauntlet being thrown, I mean, it's being thrown on

472
00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,280
Speaker 1: the personal level, it's being thrown on the policy level.

473
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:38,879
Speaker 1: And you don't have time to wait around anymore to

474
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,239
Speaker 1: join this fight. Right, You're either in it or you're not,

475
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:42,919
Speaker 1: and that's the only one that at this point. Then

476
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,040
Speaker 1: just bow out and then you know what, you can

477
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:47,560
Speaker 1: stop all of the speculation, and then you can also

478
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:49,320
Speaker 1: say whatever you want. You're like, look, I'm the governor.

479
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:51,199
Speaker 1: I'm going to handle this responsibly. There's nothing for me

480
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:54,080
Speaker 1: to comment on. Should a time come that I need

481
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:56,040
Speaker 1: to take action, rest assured that I will make a

482
00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:58,840
Speaker 1: well considered, you know action. That's something that somebody who

483
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,640
Speaker 1: has no political ambition would say, but this was one

484
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:05,480
Speaker 1: where it's both ways. And look, you know it's not

485
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 1: just me and you, Crystal that took notice of this.

486
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 1: There are a lot of folks out there who are

487
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:13,919
Speaker 1: taking a look and are not very happy with Ron DeSantis.

488
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:17,639
Speaker 1: First and foremost was Steve Bannon and Mike Lindell, both

489
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:21,719
Speaker 1: Trump loyalists, who blasted him for his response. Here's what

490
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,480
Speaker 1: he had to say, Governor DeSantis, You're better than this.

491
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:26,439
Speaker 1: That was a weasel approach, and don't give me the

492
00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:28,919
Speaker 1: don't throw anything about the porn star. Don't need to

493
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:32,160
Speaker 1: hear it from you, Okay, don't need to hear it, okay.

494
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:37,919
Speaker 1: Mike Lindell the Election Crime Bureau report sir, well, first

495
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:41,159
Speaker 1: of all, DeSantis is the trojan horse we thought he was.

496
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:43,919
Speaker 1: I just want to put that out there, how disgusting

497
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 1: he is. How disgusting he is, the trojan horse that

498
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:49,880
Speaker 1: we thought he was. Weasel not the only ones. Let's

499
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,239
Speaker 1: put the next one up there, Candice Owens. Here's what

500
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 1: she had to say. Anyone's surprised by this been saying

501
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,520
Speaker 1: this forever. DeSantis is a good governor, but he is establishment.

502
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:01,120
Speaker 1: Will be a major dis pointment to those who think

503
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 1: otherwise people disenchanted with Trump sometimes rightfully saw things in

504
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,680
Speaker 1: DeSantis that were never there. She follows up, he handled

505
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:13,399
Speaker 1: COVID correctly and bravely, but DeSantis is not America first,

506
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 1: so he is really getting it from a lot of

507
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 1: the magosphere. And actually, has Candace been on DeSantis. She hasn't. Really,

508
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 1: this is the biggest shot that I've currently seen somebody's

509
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,679
Speaker 1: kept her options open. You very much so, and I

510
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 1: should also know from the Daily Wire it's really it's not.

511
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,879
Speaker 1: Also just Candace Shapiro actually replied to one of my

512
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 1: tweets kind of defending Ron DeSantis is approach because I

513
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 1: just said, look, it's terrible political judgment for him to

514
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 1: stay silent either way, and then you know, miraculously, the

515
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,440
Speaker 1: moment he does break his silence, it's trying to again

516
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,639
Speaker 1: have the two way approach. That's also even Matt Walsh,

517
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 1: who I've noted as big DeSantis fan, very much a

518
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 1: Trump critic in terms of policy, and he's like, I'm sorry,

519
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:56,200
Speaker 1: this was not the right approach at all. Another person

520
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:58,960
Speaker 1: who has actually been pro DeSantis and has not been

521
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 1: advocating for Trump is Mike Cernovich, who, look, you can

522
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,040
Speaker 1: hand it to the guy. But he's been intellectually consistent

523
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 1: on this. Here's what he said. Put it up there

524
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 1: on the screen. Quote DeSantis blew it. Today only people

525
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,480
Speaker 1: saying otherwise personally hate Trump or were never Trump in

526
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:15,120
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen. Where were you twenty fifteen? I was explaining

527
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:16,879
Speaker 1: why Trump would win when he had a ceiling of

528
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 1: three percent, and Goober's I am not a Trump guy.

529
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:22,639
Speaker 1: That's the lowest IQ thing that you could say. Again,

530
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:25,280
Speaker 1: Cernovich is somebody who was an original Trump supporter all

531
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 1: the way from twenty fifteen onward, very much enjoyed the chaos,

532
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:31,720
Speaker 1: criticize him heavily over policy throughout the years, has been

533
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,960
Speaker 1: saying that the Republicans should abandon Trump in favor of

534
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,439
Speaker 1: a person like Rond de Santis. But he again is

535
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:39,680
Speaker 1: speaking I think as you and I are. We don't

536
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:40,879
Speaker 1: really have a dog in this fight. So I'm just

537
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,200
Speaker 1: trying to look at it politically. Yeah, just being like, look,

538
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:45,159
Speaker 1: if you want to convince people, many of whom I

539
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 1: know who are major MAGA, you know, to their core,

540
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 1: and sure they are not the majority of the Republican

541
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:54,240
Speaker 1: Party or the American people, but enough of a stronghold

542
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:56,400
Speaker 1: to give you a very easy path to the primary.

543
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 1: Then you would have had to make a defense of Trump.

544
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 1: And one of the reason why I'm noting this is

545
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,439
Speaker 1: look at every other major Republican figure in the country.

546
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy immediately the speaker, the senior most GOP elected official,

547
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:14,359
Speaker 1: tweet coming out full bear support of Trump. Jd. Vance,

548
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:17,879
Speaker 1: many of the other Republican senators, Steve Bannon, and others,

549
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:22,119
Speaker 1: the Trump campaign publicly praising vivike Ramaswami, calling on Nicki

550
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:25,879
Speaker 1: Haley and for Ron DeSantis to join vivike Ramaswami and

551
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:28,880
Speaker 1: condemning what's happening there. The pressure that is coming to bear,

552
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,160
Speaker 1: all of the senior Republicans at the highest elected level,

553
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 1: almost all the elected GOP senators and others have went

554
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 1: out on the record. You have Jim Jordan, another MAGA

555
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:39,720
Speaker 1: figure you know, who's coming out there and calling on

556
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 1: Alvin Bragg to come and testify before Congress saying that

557
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 1: will withhold federal funding from your department and all that.

558
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 1: Like it's out there now. Now it's a political issue.

559
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 1: The bar has been set by all of the top electeds.

560
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:54,119
Speaker 1: So your choice to go in a different direction that

561
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:56,439
Speaker 1: sends a direct bat signal, and it was it was

562
00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 1: read exactly that way as people in the magazine. Let's

563
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,480
Speaker 1: go to the next one here. Jack Pisobiac, another major

564
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:05,959
Speaker 1: figure in the MAGA community, is at two brew je

565
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 1: from was it Shakespeare right? Mm hmm. That's all coming

566
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 1: back to me right now. So the point is that

567
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 1: accusing DeSantis of stabbing him in the back. Cernovich also

568
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:17,440
Speaker 1: wrote a substack piece where it's just talking about DeSantis

569
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 1: blew it today, which passed around heavily in the MAGA community.

570
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:23,359
Speaker 1: Raheem Cassam, who is also affiliated formerly with Breitbart with

571
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 1: Steve Bannon as well, coming out and saying that, and

572
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 1: you know, you can deny it or not. Sure, these

573
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 1: guys are online, but they represent at least the thoughts

574
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 1: of Donald Trump the people around him. And it is

575
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,360
Speaker 1: a case that Trump has been racing against DeSantis, which

576
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 1: we again know has been dropping Desanta's poll numbers like Iraq.

577
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 1: To be fair, he hasn't even announced yet. Certainly things

578
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 1: could change, but I do not think that people in

579
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 1: around Trump, Trump himself and many of the people who

580
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 1: DeSantis may have been able to win over, like the

581
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 1: entire conservative kind of media apparatus. They very much took

582
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 1: notice of this again outside of Ben Shapiro and criticized

583
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 1: his response. Yeah, and once again there is not going

584
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:04,600
Speaker 1: to be any third way middle ground, no not. I

585
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 1: mean we talked yesterday about Mike Pence on January sixth,

586
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 1: trying to have it both ways. To you see, Nikki Haley,

587
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,280
Speaker 1: this is also relevant to the conversation. She just put

588
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 1: out an open in the Wall Street Journal that is

589
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 1: criticizing DeSantis over his stance on Ukraine. Now, of course,

590
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 1: Dysantis and Trump's Ukraine stances at this point, I mean,

591
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 1: it's not real really clear that they're the same, but

592
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 1: effectively similar ish similar ish, But the criticism really isn't

593
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 1: a Trump, it's a DeSantis. So you know, nobody is

594
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 1: really stepping up to take this guy head on, and

595
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 1: you have to think about the way this is all

596
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 1: going to play out. This is probably the first indictment

597
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 1: of several so this is going to continue to be

598
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 1: one of the most animating issues within the Republican base

599
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 1: elector and frankly within American politics. So if you're wishy washer,

600
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 1: you don't know where you stand on this. Yeah, Republican

601
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 1: voters are going to have issue with that. This is

602
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 1: what Trump is so good at. He is so good

603
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 1: at seizing on issues that he believes are to his benefit,

604
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 1: making them the central dividing line in Republican politics, you know,

605
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 1: policy stance. He's obviously doing this with Social Security and

606
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,719
Speaker 1: Medicare as well, and then forcing people to make a

607
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 1: hard and fast choice. If you are not one hundred

608
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 1: percent with him, then he then you know, you're seen

609
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 1: as being one hundred percent against him. And I think

610
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 1: that's we're seeing that in real time with how DeSantis

611
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 1: chose to respond to this moment. President's son also joining

612
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 1: the four let's go and put this up there on

613
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 1: the screen. So DeSantis thinks DEM's weaponizing the law to

614
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 1: indict President Trump is quote a manufactured crisis. Isn't a

615
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:44,320
Speaker 1: real issue? Pure weakness. Now we know why he was

616
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 1: silent all weekend. He's totally owned by Karl Rove, Paul Ryan,

617
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 1: and his billionaire donors, one hundred percent controlled opposition. And listen,

618
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 1: you can also say, what who cares? It's just the

619
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 1: president's son. As we also repeatedly showed you, Don Junior

620
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 1: routinely places high in many of these polls simply because

621
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 1: he's also a MAGA warrior. He's very prominent online. He's

622
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 1: somebody who a lot of the people on the base loved.

623
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 1: I remember seeing him once at the Trump Hotel. He

624
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 1: was like a rock star like whenever he walked in there,

625
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 1: because at that time, anybody who was visiting DC was

626
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 1: like very pro Trump would hang out in the lobby

627
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 1: and they all saw him and they were like stood

628
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:22,760
Speaker 1: up and clapped. Frankly, I thought it was a little

629
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 1: bit gross and kind of reminiscent of like the European kings,

630
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:27,720
Speaker 1: but it is what it is. You can't control what

631
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 1: people like, so anyway, I'm just saying purely observationally, he

632
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 1: has also a lot of credibility with a lot of

633
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 1: the MAGA base. You can dismiss it if you would like,

634
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 1: and note that majority of Republicans don't align themselves with that,

635
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 1: But the vast majority of Republicans will see any indictment

636
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 1: of Trump, especially on Stormy Daniels related bookkeeping fraud, as

637
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 1: one of a complete political prosecution. It will be a

638
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,479
Speaker 1: complete cross the rubicon moment politically. Also, Crystal and I

639
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 1: you have discussed I mean the fact that they are

640
00:31:57,800 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 1: going first with this, and I'm not saying they because

641
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it's coordinated, although maybe it is. But

642
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 1: you're going first with Stormy Daniels and not with the

643
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 1: Fulton County grand jury, not with the January sixth, not

644
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 1: with any of the other married investigations, where much of

645
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 1: the American people definitely are with you, if not the

646
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 1: Republican base on this one. I even think many independent

647
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 1: voters would be like, listen, I think this is bullshit,

648
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 1: you know to be It'll be interesting to see the

649
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 1: polling on it. My guess is you still have a

650
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 1: majority of American people in favor of it, just because

651
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 1: they're not paying so much attention to the details. But

652
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 1: we've had consistent polling that says that they believe Trump

653
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:36,479
Speaker 1: deserves to be indicted. We'll see, But I agree with

654
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 1: your fundamental point here that there's a lot more for

655
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 1: Trump to work with on this particular prosecution versus Georgia,

656
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 1: versus January sixth, and fake elector schemes. So yeah, I mean,

657
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 1: I think if it was coordinated, this is not the

658
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 1: order that they would have chosen. So I think that

659
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 1: argues against the idea that there was any sort of

660
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 1: federal state, local coordinate nation in terms of ordering these indictments,

661
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 1: because they do not think that this is the order

662
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 1: that you would choose. There you go. So we will

663
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 1: watch it closely, guys, and you know, the minute that

664
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:11,880
Speaker 1: something breaks, we'll try to you know, get up live

665
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 1: as soon as we can. And of course we've got

666
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 1: counterpoints tomorrow to cover anything that unfolds overnight as well.

667
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:21,960
Speaker 1: All right, let's turn to what is going on in France,

668
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 1: because this is quite astonishing we covered before. Macron has

669
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 1: for years now actually been pushing to raise the retirement

670
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 1: age in France and is facing vehement opposition from effectively

671
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 1: all political corners. It's actually a real horseshoe moment. You

672
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 1: have the nationalist right, as led by Marine le Pen,

673
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 1: which is opposed to Macron on this. You also have

674
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 1: the left, led by figures like Jean Luke Mill and Sean.

675
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 1: They are all united in their opposition to raising their

676
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 1: retirement age, and the people are behind them too. By

677
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 1: the way, the polling I've seen has said that anywhere

678
00:33:57,520 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 1: from two thirds to three quarters of the French public

679
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 1: is like, hell no, we do not support this, and

680
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:08,360
Speaker 1: that has shown up in the legislative tactics that Macron

681
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:11,640
Speaker 1: has been forced into using if he wants to push

682
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,840
Speaker 1: this retirement age lift through, and it is also shown

683
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 1: in the overwhelming street protests that have been rocking the

684
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 1: country for months now, some of which we have covered.

685
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:26,800
Speaker 1: But yesterday something absolutely extraordinary happened, which is that Macron

686
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:31,239
Speaker 1: put us up on the screen barely survived a no

687
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 1: confidence vote by just nine votes. Now, the reason that

688
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 1: this no confidence vote happened, and I'll get into a

689
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 1: little bit of the details here, is Macrome could not

690
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 1: actually muster enough legislative support, it appears, to pass this

691
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 1: retirement age lift through like normal order. So we had

692
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:56,279
Speaker 1: to invoke this unusual legislative procedure that I won't get

693
00:34:56,280 --> 00:35:00,120
Speaker 1: into the details of, but that effectively circumvented having to

694
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:03,440
Speaker 1: go through and actually obtain a majority of the vote

695
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 1: that can be used for certain particular votes within within France.

696
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 1: It's very unusual to do, and frankly, it's very anti democratic.

697
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:13,200
Speaker 1: It seems like all of these neoliberals, when push comes

698
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 1: to shove, they really show their authoritarian cover colors. But

699
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:21,399
Speaker 1: after he pushes this through using this unusual mechanism, they

700
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,760
Speaker 1: had the opportunity to then have a no confidence vote,

701
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:28,479
Speaker 1: and if that no confidence vote had succeeded, not only

702
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 1: would his government had to like effectively disband, but it

703
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:36,279
Speaker 1: also would have rolled back the retirement age lift. So

704
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 1: this came a lot closer than what people thought. And

705
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:43,839
Speaker 1: the reason is that they lost a good number of

706
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:48,120
Speaker 1: the like center right Republicans who were in theory in

707
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 1: support of lifting the age even further to even higher,

708
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:53,759
Speaker 1: to sixty five. But they saw the freak out of

709
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 1: the public, and a good like nineteen of them that

710
00:35:56,680 --> 00:36:00,360
Speaker 1: they expected to vote in favor of Macron actually toffected

711
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 1: and voted along with the no confidence vote, and that's

712
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:08,399
Speaker 1: why he barely barely survived. There have been protests going

713
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:11,680
Speaker 1: on over this four months. There continued to be protests.

714
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 1: We have a little bit of that. Let's go ahead

715
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:14,480
Speaker 1: and put it up on the screen so you can

716
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 1: get a sense of this. You see the like, you know,

717
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:21,919
Speaker 1: cops with riot shields and you know, some smoke there.

718
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 1: You've got similar interactions here between the police. You've got

719
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 1: a fire one of the things. Go ahead, put up

720
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 1: the next vo. Guys. There have been strikes, sort of

721
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:34,319
Speaker 1: rolling strikes throughout French society. One of the ones that

722
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 1: has been most visible is the garbage collectors. The rubbage

723
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:41,080
Speaker 1: collectors have not been working, so there are tons and

724
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 1: tons of garbage piled up in the streets of Paris.

725
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:50,760
Speaker 1: And apparently last night, after that no confidence vote narrowly failed,

726
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:54,359
Speaker 1: a lot of that rubbish was set on fire. So

727
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 1: that's where we are. It really is quite extraordinary. I

728
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 1: think you would put it in the context of you know,

729
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 1: first of all, like the French are very protective of

730
00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 1: their way of life and they see this as an

731
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 1: assault on their way of life and whatever you think

732
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:09,799
Speaker 1: about where the retirement age should be. Like, clearly they

733
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 1: are overwhelmingly opposed to this change. That's number one. But

734
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:16,200
Speaker 1: it also comes from the context of, you know, you've

735
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 1: also had in the UK huge protests also over sort

736
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:24,239
Speaker 1: of neoliberal policies. So it starts to look like a

737
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:27,840
Speaker 1: real trend, that is, you know, that is burgeoning in

738
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:29,839
Speaker 1: Europe and perhaps beyond well. I think that the point,

739
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 1: the major point is if the majority the people in

740
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 1: France don't want it, well, they're the ones who get

741
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:36,400
Speaker 1: to decide in their government, and yeah, I mean going

742
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 1: nine votes away from a vote of no confidence is

743
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:42,320
Speaker 1: a disaster, but more so I think that the means

744
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:44,359
Speaker 1: through which that he was trying to do it by

745
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 1: bypassing parliament, I don't think that that's going to sit

746
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:49,719
Speaker 1: well with a lot of people in France because it does,

747
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:53,040
Speaker 1: as you say, look authoritarian in nature. Now, part of

748
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:54,840
Speaker 1: the problem is, you know, with their party system and

749
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:57,800
Speaker 1: their fracturing, that they've effectively guaranteed it so that Macrone

750
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:00,879
Speaker 1: consistently has been able to win power despite that fact

751
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:02,920
Speaker 1: that almost nobody likes him and he's got a thirty

752
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:05,840
Speaker 1: percent approval rating, which is outrageous. It almost reminds me

753
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 1: of our presidential system. But they've always historically had that

754
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 1: strong parliament as well. And their inability here or the

755
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:17,279
Speaker 1: inability right now for the Macrone for the Parliament to

756
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 1: come in and actually block this shows you though, that

757
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:22,359
Speaker 1: because they got so close, they may have a path

758
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:24,319
Speaker 1: there in the future. At the very least, it does

759
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 1: send a signal to him being like, hey, you know,

760
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:30,279
Speaker 1: you're coming right on the razor's edge of actually losing here,

761
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 1: and it could be it would be a huge blow,

762
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 1: I think to his presidency. It's also one of those

763
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 1: strange things where why does he continue to push this whenever?

764
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:39,920
Speaker 1: Why is so so committed to us? Why are you

765
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,800
Speaker 1: so committed to this whenever? You're it's like, arguably the

766
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:44,799
Speaker 1: best thing you could do for the French economy right

767
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:46,799
Speaker 1: now is to try and negotiate peace in Ukraine. That

768
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 1: actually would be the best possible beats great for energy prices.

769
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:53,719
Speaker 1: They're actually protests in France over NATO and over the

770
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:56,720
Speaker 1: continued war in Ukraine right now. So we shouldn't pretend

771
00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:59,319
Speaker 1: like everything is hunky dory over in Paris, something that

772
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:01,919
Speaker 1: he absolutely would have real control over and probably would

773
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:04,920
Speaker 1: be politically popular. But you know, this way he's decided

774
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:06,840
Speaker 1: to go with. I don't really get it. Yeah, I

775
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 1: don't really get it either. And you know the parallels

776
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:13,560
Speaker 1: to the US system that you alluded to. You're not

777
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:15,839
Speaker 1: the only one that took note of that. Remember, after

778
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 1: mccron was able to win reelection, Ron Klayane, who was

779
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 1: at that point chief of staff, tweeted basically like, oh,

780
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:25,360
Speaker 1: he got re elected with an approval rating in the thirties,

781
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:29,279
Speaker 1: How interesting, effectively intimating that the plan to get Joe

782
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:32,239
Speaker 1: Biden reelected is very similar, Like, well, you may not

783
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:35,120
Speaker 1: really like Joe, you may be wildly dissatisfied with his

784
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:38,840
Speaker 1: inadequacies and his ability to effectively govern, but are you

785
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:40,759
Speaker 1: really going to vote for Donald Trump? I don't think so.

786
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,759
Speaker 1: And so it was a similar like lesser evil kind

787
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:47,760
Speaker 1: of dynamic that got Macron into office. It's also worth

788
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:51,840
Speaker 1: remembering that this form in the first protest, massive protest

789
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 1: movement that he has faced since he has been the

790
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:57,160
Speaker 1: leader of that country. In his first term, that's when

791
00:39:57,160 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 1: they had the Yellow US protests, which were over you know,

792
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 1: a different basket of issues, but similarly driven by economics

793
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:06,560
Speaker 1: and populistic nature. And these sort of like horseshoe coalition.

794
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 1: So now you have in the second term as well.

795
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 1: I mean these are massive, like his story. I know,

796
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 1: like France protests all the time, but this is a

797
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:17,600
Speaker 1: different level and it's and they recognize it as such, yes,

798
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:20,399
Speaker 1: And it's across the country. It really is from sort

799
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:23,719
Speaker 1: of all corners of society. A quite you know, remarkable

800
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:27,719
Speaker 1: show of force. Many many labor unions involved, like I said,

801
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:31,400
Speaker 1: you know, not collecting the rubbage and shutting down some

802
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 1: of the transportation system, even dealing with some of the

803
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:38,880
Speaker 1: sort of core energy infrastructure scaling back production. So this

804
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 1: has really rocked this society. And even if he is,

805
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 1: you know, able to, he already has forced this thing

806
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:48,200
Speaker 1: through effectively. Now he's facing I just saw this morning

807
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:51,400
Speaker 1: calls from even some lawmakers within his own party that

808
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:53,799
Speaker 1: are like, you know, this is really not worth it,

809
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 1: like we support it principle and it's all about fiscal responsibility,

810
00:40:57,480 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 1: et cetera. Of course you could always, you know, you

811
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:02,800
Speaker 1: could always build that whole another way. But so even

812
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 1: within his own party, he is losing some support here,

813
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:08,480
Speaker 1: which I think is pretty extraordinary as well. Put this

814
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:10,400
Speaker 1: last piece up on the screen from the Financial Times

815
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:12,799
Speaker 1: just so you can see their take on it. They

816
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 1: say a Manuel and that Krone to force pension reform

817
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:19,400
Speaker 1: without vote as protests sweep France, and they say government

818
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:22,840
Speaker 1: risks a no confidence voting for their backlash on the streets. Obviously,

819
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 1: they narrowly survived that no confidence vote. But this article

820
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:30,239
Speaker 1: just goes into some of the details of the legislative

821
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 1: maneuvering that was required here in order to force this through.

822
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:36,279
Speaker 1: And it also notes that nearly three quarters of the

823
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:39,840
Speaker 1: public are opposed to raising the retirement age according to polls,

824
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 1: and that millions have turned up to protests, not just

825
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:45,280
Speaker 1: in Paris and other large cities, but also in small

826
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:47,520
Speaker 1: town So it really is, you know, across the entire

827
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 1: country that society is revolting against these neoliberal changes he's

828
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:53,120
Speaker 1: trying to force through. Yeah, we'll keep a close eye

829
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:55,480
Speaker 1: on it. It's not like anybody's trying to cut retirement

830
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:59,360
Speaker 1: benefits here in the US. A lot of echoes, doesn't it. Listen,

831
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:01,279
Speaker 1: You know we are we are cousins, after all, I

832
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:03,799
Speaker 1: guess from across the right. All right, let's go ahead

833
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:05,440
Speaker 1: and move on to the next one. This is the

834
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 1: subject near and dear to my heart. So the cast

835
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 1: of Ted Lasso was in the White House yesterday. I

836
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:12,759
Speaker 1: don't really know what they were doing there, but I

837
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:15,960
Speaker 1: guess I don't even know what tedw It's a show

838
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 1: on Apple. I hear that boomers like it. It's it's

839
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:20,760
Speaker 1: a joke boomers. But I do hear that you guys

840
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:24,400
Speaker 1: like it. But but no, but for real, though, the

841
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:26,800
Speaker 1: biggest Ted Lasso fans I've ever met are all booms.

842
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:28,759
Speaker 1: So I'm just gonna say that, all right, So the

843
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:31,960
Speaker 1: Ted Lasso fan cast was there not dressed appropriately in

844
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:35,000
Speaker 1: my opinion, but I guess that's a subject for another day.

845
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:37,799
Speaker 1: They appeared at the White House podium next to Karine

846
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:42,360
Speaker 1: Jean Pierre, but some major fireworks erupted after Simon a Tabus.

847
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:46,000
Speaker 1: We've covered him actually before. He's a reporter for an

848
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:49,759
Speaker 1: African news outlet who has not been consistently called on

849
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:52,840
Speaker 1: by the Biden administration. He often wants to ask questions

850
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:56,759
Speaker 1: to the administration, specifically about policy with regards to Africa. Now,

851
00:42:56,760 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 1: I sympathize with Simon quite a bit because his plight

852
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:01,839
Speaker 1: of not being able to get called on is one

853
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:05,439
Speaker 1: that has been completely ignored by the White House Correspondence Association. Now,

854
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:08,440
Speaker 1: yesterday Simon decided to force the moment and to continue

855
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:10,799
Speaker 1: to shout at the White House Press Secretary until she

856
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 1: would acknowledge him. Two extraordinary things happen. One, Kareem John

857
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 1: Japierre basically said that it was an act of disrespect,

858
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:19,319
Speaker 1: that this can never happen again. But two, and this

859
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:21,600
Speaker 1: is the most calling part. Yeah, he should always have

860
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:24,359
Speaker 1: admiralser relations between the press and the press corps. When

861
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:26,279
Speaker 1: they're yelling or in the Press secretary when she's yelling

862
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:28,839
Speaker 1: at you, you're doing a good job. The best part, though,

863
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 1: was that the White House Correspondence Association president and the

864
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:35,680
Speaker 1: other people in the room turned on Simon for trying

865
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:39,319
Speaker 1: to get his question answered and actually admonished him. Let's

866
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 1: take a listen to that full exchange. You can't keeps

867
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:45,399
Speaker 1: some people in the free field room because you don't

868
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:47,680
Speaker 1: like them. You don't like that. So you have a choice.

869
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:51,759
Speaker 1: You have a choice. You have a choice. Okay. And

870
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:54,120
Speaker 1: what I'm saying that that's right. This is China, this

871
00:43:55,280 --> 00:44:01,680
Speaker 1: is the United States. The White House stings here to

872
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 1: pal don't you. You should bring them to her later.

873
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:14,600
Speaker 1: I have press chorus tired of dealing with this. No no,

874
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:16,279
Speaker 1: no, no no, no, that's not We're not doing this. We're

875
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:18,560
Speaker 1: not doing this. We're not doing this. We're not doing this.

876
00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:23,880
Speaker 1: You've been based disimulation against some people in this and

877
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:35,440
Speaker 1: I'm saying that you start Russia. Okay, he's been seven months.

878
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 1: That does not right. Funtis, welcome back, Welcome, welcome to

879
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 1: the press briefing room. Okay, let me go. Are you ready?

880
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 1: Are we going to behave? Are you ready? Are we

881
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:50,759
Speaker 1: going to behave? I mean, listen, I was there in

882
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:53,439
Speaker 1: the Trump ears Crystal. I remember when a guy named

883
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:56,120
Speaker 1: Jim Acosta, who is now the host very low rated

884
00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:59,279
Speaker 1: Saturday morning program, but who's watching that, happened to get

885
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:01,600
Speaker 1: his career and make millions of dollars on a book

886
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 1: by literally grabbing a microphone out of a White House

887
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:07,280
Speaker 1: intern's hand, refusing to give it up, and consistently shouting

888
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:09,600
Speaker 1: at the president. And guess what, Although I made fun

889
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:11,320
Speaker 1: of him at the time for the way that he acted,

890
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:14,440
Speaker 1: I would still be outraised if other people in the

891
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:17,280
Speaker 1: press corps were to shout him down, because the whole

892
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:20,279
Speaker 1: point is adversarial relations with the press, and look, it

893
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:22,399
Speaker 1: can take it in whichever direction that you want at

894
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 1: the end of the day, are exactly how it should exist.

895
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:28,840
Speaker 1: And instead, the White House Corresponds Association president Zeke Miller

896
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:32,120
Speaker 1: actually apologized to the Press Secretary after that and set

897
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:35,319
Speaker 1: our apologies on behalf of the press corps. And I

898
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:37,440
Speaker 1: think it's always important that we try and take you

899
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:40,120
Speaker 1: guys inside of the room. Is the entire system is

900
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 1: rigged completely. The government has no say over the press room.

901
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:47,560
Speaker 1: It's all controlled by the White House Corresponds Association, including

902
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:50,359
Speaker 1: the seating chart, including who they allow in and out

903
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:53,120
Speaker 1: whether people like Simon and others, people like me who

904
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:54,759
Speaker 1: had to stand in the aisles and try to get

905
00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:58,640
Speaker 1: called on by the Press secretary also in with respect here,

906
00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:01,200
Speaker 1: as you can clearly see, what they have done is

907
00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:04,160
Speaker 1: the Biden administration returned to the rule where the first

908
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:06,400
Speaker 1: person to get called on in the briefing room is

909
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:09,560
Speaker 1: the Associated Press. Worse, though, is that the traditional custom

910
00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:12,400
Speaker 1: in the room is that the Associated Press correspondent, in

911
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:14,880
Speaker 1: this case also the White House Correspondents Association president. He

912
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:17,440
Speaker 1: also gets to decide when the briefing is over. So

913
00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:19,919
Speaker 1: people should remember, we'd played that audio of a fight

914
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:22,560
Speaker 1: that broke out last time that we exclusively obtained here

915
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:25,320
Speaker 1: at breaking points, which showed that the White the Associated

916
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 1: Press president called the briefing over and reporters in the

917
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:30,680
Speaker 1: back were like, hey, you didn't have to call it over, Like,

918
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:33,680
Speaker 1: we still have questions here. The point is is why

919
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:37,400
Speaker 1: are they the ones effectively apologizing here for the breach

920
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 1: in decorum or whatever whenever you're supposed to have adversary relations.

921
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:44,480
Speaker 1: And two, why are you policing people for acting the

922
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:47,960
Speaker 1: way that you all acted During the Trump administration. They

923
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:50,600
Speaker 1: used to screaming like Banshees when Sarah Sanders came out,

924
00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:54,239
Speaker 1: and it's outrageous that now that they are getting called on,

925
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:57,359
Speaker 1: it's decorm that's dcormfest. We have to police each other

926
00:46:57,400 --> 00:46:59,600
Speaker 1: when they weren't getting called on. Oh, it's an attack

927
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:02,160
Speaker 1: on the First Amendment. The press was in trouble. We

928
00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:04,080
Speaker 1: all have to stand together. I can't tell you how

929
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 1: many times it would come to all of us, you know, afterwards,

930
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:08,160
Speaker 1: and be like, we got to stand together, guys, like

931
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:10,280
Speaker 1: we've got to make a big stand for press freedom

932
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:13,000
Speaker 1: and all this. Well, what about this, it's the same thing. Yeah,

933
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:15,239
Speaker 1: I mean to be honest with you, that's the part

934
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:17,719
Speaker 1: that is really galling to me. Like, I can't really

935
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:20,279
Speaker 1: blame Krein John Pierre for that's her job, right, that's

936
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 1: her job. Her job is to be spokesperson as president

937
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 1: and to call on the people she wants to call

938
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:27,239
Speaker 1: on and answer the question she was I can't really

939
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:29,919
Speaker 1: blame her because she is basically just doing the role

940
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:33,800
Speaker 1: that she's supposed to do. What is unforgivable is all

941
00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:39,200
Speaker 1: of those supposed journalists in the room teaming up against

942
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:42,520
Speaker 1: their fellow colleague who is trying to get heard and

943
00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:45,360
Speaker 1: trying to get a question answered, and he says he

944
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:47,960
Speaker 1: hasn't been calling months and months and months. And you know,

945
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:50,399
Speaker 1: I don't doubt that he raises and asks questions about

946
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:52,160
Speaker 1: issues that most of the rest of the press corps

947
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:56,359
Speaker 1: isn't really paying attention. Yes, yeah, so it's not without consequence,

948
00:47:56,719 --> 00:47:59,400
Speaker 1: especially when you consider the fact that this administration is

949
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 1: very close to Biden gives very few interviews. You know,

950
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:07,759
Speaker 1: they mostly only make themselves available to friendly outlets. So

951
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:10,319
Speaker 1: this is one of the only times when you have

952
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:12,359
Speaker 1: a little bit of give and take where you might

953
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:14,359
Speaker 1: be able to get a response on an issue that

954
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:16,560
Speaker 1: you know they're not going to get asked about otherwise.

955
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:20,480
Speaker 1: So there are real stakes here, and it just demonstrates that,

956
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:22,719
Speaker 1: you know, the ones who sit in the front row

957
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:26,000
Speaker 1: and get most of the questions, they are more interested

958
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:31,319
Speaker 1: in preserving decorums in service of their access and their

959
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:34,040
Speaker 1: friendly relations with the White House than they are with

960
00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:37,040
Speaker 1: actually fulfilling the adversary or role that the process is

961
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:39,359
Speaker 1: supposed to fill, right, and that was the major one,

962
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:42,239
Speaker 1: And of course you know this has been met with

963
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:46,240
Speaker 1: complete silence. They have no answer for their hypocrisy. I again,

964
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:49,720
Speaker 1: you know, I literally was once shouted down by April Ryan,

965
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:52,399
Speaker 1: who basically threw one of the biggest fits I've ever

966
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:55,080
Speaker 1: seen whenever she didn't get called on by President Trump.

967
00:48:55,239 --> 00:48:58,239
Speaker 1: I've seen Jim Acosta, Peter Alexander, and all of these

968
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:02,640
Speaker 1: other people clown themselves to a historic degree. I was

969
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:04,799
Speaker 1: standing right next to them while they were doing it.

970
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:07,080
Speaker 1: And guess what, they were making millions of dollars. They

971
00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:10,840
Speaker 1: were becoming heroes amongst their fellow press member for standing

972
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:13,920
Speaker 1: up to Sarah Sanders and Sean Spicer to President Trump.

973
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:18,120
Speaker 1: And now whenever somebody acts exact same way that they did,

974
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:20,880
Speaker 1: but it's somebody who's outside the club, oh, this is

975
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:23,399
Speaker 1: a breech of decorum. Also, here's the other favorite part.

976
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:25,080
Speaker 1: You can raise them with her later. Yeah, she's gonna

977
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 1: take a meeting with her. It's not so easy to

978
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:29,200
Speaker 1: meet with the press secretary. Okay, it actually is very

979
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 1: hard if you don't want to. I used to have

980
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 1: to get up at like six in the morning and

981
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:35,319
Speaker 1: go stand by Sarah Sanders's door just to literally get

982
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:37,520
Speaker 1: two seconds with her, just like hi, you know, just

983
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:39,959
Speaker 1: so you know, that's how it works. If the big

984
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:42,080
Speaker 1: time reporters though of course they get meetings with them

985
00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:45,040
Speaker 1: all the time. It's a complete inside again, you know

986
00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:47,920
Speaker 1: George Carlin quote big club, you ain't in it, and

987
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:50,040
Speaker 1: Simon is finding out the hard way. He had the

988
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:52,880
Speaker 1: temerity to shout at the press secretary, which is literally

989
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:55,680
Speaker 1: supposed to what these people are supposed to do. But

990
00:49:55,680 --> 00:49:57,359
Speaker 1: they don't have to shout anymore because they've got that

991
00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:00,880
Speaker 1: inside relationship. This is. It's totally rich the way that

992
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:04,000
Speaker 1: this happened, and he just exposed it again once once

993
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:07,160
Speaker 1: again after his last big stand. So here you go,

994
00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:09,440
Speaker 1: And if you really want to be disgusted, just look

995
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:11,760
Speaker 1: at the online reaction of this was all in favor

996
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:14,880
Speaker 1: of dare he how dare he speak up? And the

997
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:20,359
Speaker 1: Queen great break de Korum, etcetera. So anyway, okay, so

998
00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:23,719
Speaker 1: this there's a clip that has been getting passed around

999
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:26,000
Speaker 1: quite a lot online that is quite a storinary. So

1000
00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:28,080
Speaker 1: we want to play it here. Put actually the second

1001
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:31,040
Speaker 1: element guys up on the screen. First. PBS is doing

1002
00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:34,880
Speaker 1: a little documentary of doctor Fauji. I guess they followed

1003
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:39,279
Speaker 1: him around for a while of part of their American

1004
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:44,879
Speaker 1: Masters series and as part of this documentary, where again

1005
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:47,239
Speaker 1: they were following Fauchi for a while with a camera crew,

1006
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:49,239
Speaker 1: et cetera, and seeing what was happening. This was like

1007
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:51,839
Speaker 1: in the height of the vaccine push. As part of this,

1008
00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:56,080
Speaker 1: they went to a historic black neighborhood in Washington, d C.

1009
00:50:56,560 --> 00:51:00,960
Speaker 1: It's Fauci and current mayor maryel Bowser, and they are

1010
00:51:01,239 --> 00:51:04,080
Speaker 1: trying to get people who are not yet vaccinated to

1011
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:07,759
Speaker 1: go and get the JAB. So mostly I watched the

1012
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:10,239
Speaker 1: whole clip that they've posted. Most interactions very friendly. There

1013
00:51:10,239 --> 00:51:11,360
Speaker 1: were a lot of people are like, oh, I already

1014
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:13,600
Speaker 1: got it done. People were excited to see him or whatever.

1015
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:17,560
Speaker 1: But one of the interactions did not go exactly as

1016
00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:21,680
Speaker 1: doctor Fausci expected. Let's take a look. People in America

1017
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:24,440
Speaker 1: are not settled with the information that's been given to

1018
00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:26,560
Speaker 1: us right now. So I'm not going to be lining

1019
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:30,080
Speaker 1: up taking a shot or an vaccination for something that

1020
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:32,319
Speaker 1: wasn't clear in the first place. And then you all

1021
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:36,239
Speaker 1: create a shot in miraculous time. It takes years to

1022
00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:40,239
Speaker 1: create well, it used to take years. Okay, you know

1023
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:42,239
Speaker 1: how you know how many years we're invested in this

1024
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:45,359
Speaker 1: in this approach, about twenty years of science to get

1025
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:47,399
Speaker 1: us to be what to do not enough, and nine

1026
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:49,640
Speaker 1: months it's definitely not enough for nobody to be taking

1027
00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:52,719
Speaker 1: no vaccination. That you all came up with, what are

1028
00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:55,080
Speaker 1: we going to do about those other states? Oh my god,

1029
00:51:55,360 --> 00:51:58,400
Speaker 1: they're going to keep the outbreak smoldering in the country.

1030
00:51:58,719 --> 00:52:01,640
Speaker 1: It's so crazy. I mean, they're not doing it because

1031
00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:03,480
Speaker 1: they say they don't want to do it with their Republicans,

1032
00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:05,720
Speaker 1: they don't like to be told what to do. And

1033
00:52:05,719 --> 00:52:07,799
Speaker 1: we've got to break that, you know, unpack that. Well.

1034
00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:11,000
Speaker 1: I heard that it doesn't hear it and it doesn't

1035
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:14,879
Speaker 1: stop you from getting it. So on the very very

1036
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:17,600
Speaker 1: very rare chance that you do get it, even if

1037
00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:19,920
Speaker 1: you vaccinated, it's a very you don't even feel sick.

1038
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:22,040
Speaker 1: It's like you don't even know you got infected. So

1039
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:24,520
Speaker 1: the first interaction that we play that went on for

1040
00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:27,440
Speaker 1: some time. He had a lot of and they just

1041
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:30,080
Speaker 1: had to eventually be like, all right, you're obviously not

1042
00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:31,600
Speaker 1: going to get the vaccine. But there's actually a lot

1043
00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:34,160
Speaker 1: to unpack here. I mean, first of all, in that

1044
00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:39,279
Speaker 1: last interaction, what Fauci says is really not accurate. It's

1045
00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:42,480
Speaker 1: just not accurate, literally not true. It's just not true, right,

1046
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:45,600
Speaker 1: I mean, we all found out that okay, the vaccine

1047
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:49,960
Speaker 1: was very effective in preventing severe illness into that is

1048
00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:54,880
Speaker 1: that is absolutely especially amongst those who are menal compromises, elderly. Yes,

1049
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:58,800
Speaker 1: but it really didn't do a whole lot in terms

1050
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:01,840
Speaker 1: of just keeping you from COVID as we discovered in

1051
00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:03,520
Speaker 1: the rest of the country. And he's telling that to

1052
00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:06,640
Speaker 1: a mom with her kids. That's actually what really called me, Chris.

1053
00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:09,520
Speaker 1: So that was that the first guy. Also, you know,

1054
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:12,560
Speaker 1: zad Jlawni was talking about this. He was like, listen,

1055
00:53:12,680 --> 00:53:14,360
Speaker 1: you know, whatever you think about the vaccine, that's not

1056
00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:17,160
Speaker 1: how you convince somebody. Whenever you're like, well, actually it

1057
00:53:17,239 --> 00:53:19,439
Speaker 1: was twenty years of sign Now, look, maybe the man

1058
00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:23,880
Speaker 1: was unconvinceable, but he was so arrogant in his presentation

1059
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:25,640
Speaker 1: about the data, about the way that he was talking

1060
00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:27,640
Speaker 1: to that mother. Also in that comment that he was

1061
00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:30,799
Speaker 1: making to Muriel Bowser about oh, these Republicans and their

1062
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:33,360
Speaker 1: choice and all this basically ridiculing them. You know, this

1063
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 1: was at the time, I believe this was in May

1064
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:38,160
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty one. At that time, whenever President Biden

1065
00:53:38,239 --> 00:53:40,839
Speaker 1: was like it's a pandemic or whatever of the unvaccinated

1066
00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:43,279
Speaker 1: and I did end up being true either, And the

1067
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:47,000
Speaker 1: point was is that he was ridiculing and admonishing people

1068
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:49,640
Speaker 1: rather than actually trying to meet that man with his

1069
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:53,960
Speaker 1: legitimate concerns and just say listen, man, like tell me,

1070
00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:56,200
Speaker 1: what would you need to hear from me right now?

1071
00:53:56,239 --> 00:53:58,040
Speaker 1: Like what can I try and give you right now?

1072
00:53:58,080 --> 00:54:00,360
Speaker 1: I mean, okay. So there's a lot of research about

1073
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:05,000
Speaker 1: the best ways to actually persuade people, and the least

1074
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:08,040
Speaker 1: effective thing you can do is sort of what Fauci

1075
00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:10,200
Speaker 1: did there, which is girl a bunch of statistics at them,

1076
00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:12,799
Speaker 1: beat them over the head with like well actually it

1077
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:14,840
Speaker 1: was blah blah blah blah blah. The best thing you

1078
00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:17,000
Speaker 1: can do is engage in a conversation and ask them

1079
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:21,600
Speaker 1: some questions that maybe allow them to themselves question some

1080
00:54:21,640 --> 00:54:24,560
Speaker 1: of the assumptions that they had made. Now, look, I

1081
00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:27,239
Speaker 1: think it's entirely possible that this man was not persuadable.

1082
00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:30,040
Speaker 1: He clearly was like, you know, we're very invested, and

1083
00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:32,040
Speaker 1: that exchange, like I said, goes on for a long time.

1084
00:54:32,080 --> 00:54:35,440
Speaker 1: He is very invested in his view of the vaccine,

1085
00:54:35,480 --> 00:54:41,080
Speaker 1: which wasn't accurate. But to me, what it reminded me

1086
00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:45,960
Speaker 1: of was the fact that, especially early in the vaccination campaigns,

1087
00:54:46,120 --> 00:54:48,680
Speaker 1: there was a median narrative that the only people who

1088
00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:53,360
Speaker 1: were vaccine hesitant were basically like crank, right wing Republican

1089
00:54:53,360 --> 00:54:56,600
Speaker 1: and that was not true. That it wasn't true at all.

1090
00:54:56,680 --> 00:54:58,680
Speaker 1: And so I actually, I mean, I'm glad that Fauci

1091
00:54:58,719 --> 00:55:00,320
Speaker 1: actually went out and talked of some p people that

1092
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:03,960
Speaker 1: didn't fit the narrative that was being sold. But you know,

1093
00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:07,200
Speaker 1: it makes a lot of sense that the people who

1094
00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:11,640
Speaker 1: have been screwed over the most in modern history, in

1095
00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:16,920
Speaker 1: past history, in further back history, by American society and

1096
00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:20,919
Speaker 1: by specifically the medical establishment in a lot of instances, Yeah,

1097
00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:24,640
Speaker 1: they're going to be skeptical. That is the natural reaction

1098
00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:28,200
Speaker 1: to their experience and the history of what they have

1099
00:55:28,239 --> 00:55:31,040
Speaker 1: suffered in this country. So I think it was a

1100
00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:34,359
Speaker 1: real reminder of that time period and how much we

1101
00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:37,880
Speaker 1: were kind of gaslet about where vaccine hesitancy was coming

1102
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:40,920
Speaker 1: from and what it was all about, when in reality

1103
00:55:40,960 --> 00:55:44,160
Speaker 1: it was a much more complex and multifaceted picture. And

1104
00:55:44,200 --> 00:55:45,920
Speaker 1: the other thing that it reminded me of, which is

1105
00:55:45,960 --> 00:55:49,480
Speaker 1: just like pretty service level, is there's oftentimes an attempt

1106
00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:53,480
Speaker 1: to paint the quote unquote black community as one single

1107
00:55:53,560 --> 00:55:57,520
Speaker 1: monolith that holds one single set of views. And I

1108
00:55:57,520 --> 00:56:00,320
Speaker 1: think if you watch this clip in its entirety, it's

1109
00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:04,759
Speaker 1: very clear that you cannot reduce any demographic group of

1110
00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:09,200
Speaker 1: people to a single monolith. People are complex and they

1111
00:56:09,239 --> 00:56:13,000
Speaker 1: hold a wide variety of views within any demographic It

1112
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:14,600
Speaker 1: turns out black people who are just like the rest

1113
00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:18,120
Speaker 1: of us individuals. Shocker. I know it's actually racist to

1114
00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:19,840
Speaker 1: think the otherwise, but what of course, I'm sure that

1115
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:22,600
Speaker 1: point has been made a million times. My major takeaway

1116
00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:24,760
Speaker 1: from that was Number One, Fauci is the least effective

1117
00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:27,160
Speaker 1: science communicator of all time, even though quote he is

1118
00:56:27,239 --> 00:56:30,800
Speaker 1: literally the science, as he dubbed himself. And two, which

1119
00:56:30,840 --> 00:56:33,400
Speaker 1: is a core tenant of the show, is I trust

1120
00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:36,399
Speaker 1: regular people. Man. You know these people are out there.

1121
00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:39,160
Speaker 1: I'm going to presume that they work very hard, that

1122
00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:43,160
Speaker 1: you know, necessarily that life has been tough in some cases,

1123
00:56:43,239 --> 00:56:47,080
Speaker 1: especially in that neighborhood. And guess what, those people are

1124
00:56:47,120 --> 00:56:50,600
Speaker 1: often the best at sussing out information for themselves, and

1125
00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:53,960
Speaker 1: they can legitimately ask that question. And actually thought it

1126
00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:55,719
Speaker 1: was really outrageous the way that he lied to her

1127
00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:58,640
Speaker 1: about preventing transmission and all that, and trying to guilt

1128
00:56:58,640 --> 00:57:01,320
Speaker 1: trip this mother into trying to to protect her children

1129
00:57:01,320 --> 00:57:04,480
Speaker 1: when the information that she presented was fundamentally accurate as

1130
00:57:04,520 --> 00:57:06,640
Speaker 1: to what she wanted to do. Also, it's not like

1131
00:57:06,719 --> 00:57:09,680
Speaker 1: she wasn't COVID unsafe. She was wearing a mask at

1132
00:57:09,719 --> 00:57:12,239
Speaker 1: the time. I don't know if everybody noticed that. So

1133
00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:15,120
Speaker 1: it's not like she didn't care about protecting her kids.

1134
00:57:15,239 --> 00:57:18,160
Speaker 1: She was. It turned out what we knew about mass

1135
00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:19,280
Speaker 1: and all that. But I guess, to the best of

1136
00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:21,760
Speaker 1: her knowledge, what she thought she was doing best for

1137
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:24,360
Speaker 1: protecting herself and protecting her family. And at the end

1138
00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:26,240
Speaker 1: of the day, like, this is America, and it also

1139
00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:28,080
Speaker 1: underscores I think I did a monologue about this with

1140
00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:30,400
Speaker 1: Don Lemon and with others where he was calling out

1141
00:57:30,440 --> 00:57:33,440
Speaker 1: like white unvaccinated whites and how they should be banned

1142
00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:35,200
Speaker 1: from society and all that, and I was like, here,

1143
00:57:35,240 --> 00:57:37,560
Speaker 1: you have like one of the top black people in

1144
00:57:37,720 --> 00:57:40,800
Speaker 1: news who's basically advocating for poor blacks in New York

1145
00:57:40,880 --> 00:57:43,480
Speaker 1: City and throughout the rest of America to not be

1146
00:57:43,520 --> 00:57:46,120
Speaker 1: able to enter a public space. Yeah, that's crazy to

1147
00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:48,480
Speaker 1: be kicked out. And there was a conversation about kicking

1148
00:57:48,520 --> 00:57:52,720
Speaker 1: people out of school. Yes, yeah, I mean listen to

1149
00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:55,080
Speaker 1: to go back to that first exchange with the guy.

1150
00:57:55,120 --> 00:57:57,560
Speaker 1: It was very hard against the vaccine. I mean, some

1151
00:57:57,640 --> 00:58:01,480
Speaker 1: of what he said was not correct, no doubt about it.

1152
00:58:02,200 --> 00:58:05,880
Speaker 1: But it was also interesting to hear how he was

1153
00:58:06,120 --> 00:58:09,760
Speaker 1: consuming the information that was available to him. And you know,

1154
00:58:09,840 --> 00:58:11,920
Speaker 1: one of the things that made him really skeptical was

1155
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:14,360
Speaker 1: there were a bunch of these incentive programs like oh,

1156
00:58:14,360 --> 00:58:16,520
Speaker 1: we'll pay you, which I at the time thought, okay,

1157
00:58:16,560 --> 00:58:20,400
Speaker 1: well maybe that's a reasonable life thought. But clearly, at

1158
00:58:20,520 --> 00:58:23,200
Speaker 1: least for some percentage, this was taken of a sign

1159
00:58:23,280 --> 00:58:25,040
Speaker 1: of like, oh you're going to pay, then there must

1160
00:58:25,080 --> 00:58:28,040
Speaker 1: really be something else going on here if you're willing

1161
00:58:28,080 --> 00:58:30,400
Speaker 1: to pay me for it. And that's again because there's

1162
00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:32,560
Speaker 1: this deep mistrust. And by the way, you know, to

1163
00:58:32,600 --> 00:58:35,200
Speaker 1: bring this background to Fauci, and I think that guy

1164
00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:37,320
Speaker 1: mentioned some of this or at least alluded to it

1165
00:58:37,360 --> 00:58:40,840
Speaker 1: as well. We know that at the beginning of this crisis,

1166
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:45,360
Speaker 1: Fauci was not He admitted to lying to American people

1167
00:58:45,480 --> 00:58:49,120
Speaker 1: about masks and about herd immunity. So if that's your

1168
00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:52,080
Speaker 1: starting point of like out of the Gates on one

1169
00:58:52,120 --> 00:58:54,360
Speaker 1: of the most important questions of like should you mask

1170
00:58:54,440 --> 00:58:56,760
Speaker 1: or should you not mask? You're gonna lie to us

1171
00:58:56,760 --> 00:58:59,080
Speaker 1: about what you actually think and what the science and

1172
00:58:59,120 --> 00:59:02,760
Speaker 1: research to that point actually says, Well, then yeah, that's

1173
00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:06,040
Speaker 1: going to degrade our trust than down the road when

1174
00:59:06,040 --> 00:59:08,040
Speaker 1: you're asking us to take these other steps. To me,

1175
00:59:08,080 --> 00:59:10,640
Speaker 1: it also just exposes that one of the I've met

1176
00:59:10,640 --> 00:59:12,680
Speaker 1: a lot of people who are unvaccinated. I've met a

1177
00:59:12,720 --> 00:59:14,720
Speaker 1: lot of people who refuse to get the vaccine, and

1178
00:59:14,760 --> 00:59:17,120
Speaker 1: the number one thing that they cite to me every

1179
00:59:17,240 --> 00:59:21,280
Speaker 1: single time is the pharmaceutical profit incentive. Can you blame them?

1180
00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:25,360
Speaker 1: I absolutely cannot. And that is something which in retrospect

1181
00:59:25,560 --> 00:59:27,240
Speaker 1: and I mean we certainly said at the time, but

1182
00:59:27,280 --> 00:59:30,880
Speaker 1: also any injection of money into this process corrupted it

1183
00:59:30,920 --> 00:59:33,280
Speaker 1: in the minds of the skeptical from day one. You

1184
00:59:33,320 --> 00:59:38,520
Speaker 1: cannot but look at the outrageous profits of a Pfizer

1185
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:41,480
Speaker 1: and of Maderna, of their changing their tune from the

1186
00:59:41,560 --> 00:59:45,160
Speaker 1: original vacs to them the boosters to now continual boosters,

1187
00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:47,919
Speaker 1: and not say, hey, you're making a ton of money

1188
00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:51,240
Speaker 1: off this thing. You are also literally exempt by the

1189
00:59:51,360 --> 00:59:54,640
Speaker 1: US government over liability and so it's like you exempt

1190
00:59:54,640 --> 00:59:56,440
Speaker 1: the liability, but you get to keep the profits. So

1191
00:59:56,480 --> 00:59:59,200
Speaker 1: it's like, well, so it's literal, the literal meme of

1192
00:59:59,280 --> 01:00:02,680
Speaker 1: socializer skin privatize the profit. I think that was the

1193
01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:05,200
Speaker 1: original sin. Yeah, from the beginning, I personally think there

1194
01:00:05,200 --> 01:00:07,480
Speaker 1: would have been much higher vaccine uptick A if they

1195
01:00:07,520 --> 01:00:10,200
Speaker 1: were way more honest about the data and B if

1196
01:00:10,280 --> 01:00:12,200
Speaker 1: they had taken money out from the process in the

1197
01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:13,720
Speaker 1: first place. Because that's one of the first things he

1198
01:00:13,800 --> 01:00:17,040
Speaker 1: sides too about the process, the opaqueness. That's something I learned.

1199
01:00:17,240 --> 01:00:19,800
Speaker 1: I have learned so much from John Abramson, who we

1200
01:00:19,880 --> 01:00:22,240
Speaker 1: had here on the show about the actual process to

1201
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:24,480
Speaker 1: which these drugs get Greenland through. With the way the

1202
01:00:24,600 --> 01:00:27,040
Speaker 1: flu shot so so much of this stuff that, you know,

1203
01:00:27,200 --> 01:00:31,600
Speaker 1: my own skepticism is skyrocketed about the entire medical system

1204
01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:33,240
Speaker 1: through this, and I don't think I'm alone. And a

1205
01:00:33,320 --> 01:00:34,840
Speaker 1: lot of it does come back to money. I think

1206
01:00:34,920 --> 01:00:37,520
Speaker 1: I think you're right to pinpoint the profit motive, because

1207
01:00:37,600 --> 01:00:41,040
Speaker 1: even if we zoom out from this particular incident, etc.

1208
01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:45,560
Speaker 1: It's no accident that the US has a larger percentage

1209
01:00:45,680 --> 01:00:49,560
Speaker 1: of vaccine hesitant people than other developed nations that have

1210
01:00:49,800 --> 01:00:54,080
Speaker 1: universal healthcare where you don't have the profit motive at

1211
01:00:54,120 --> 01:00:58,360
Speaker 1: the core of every single interaction anyone ever has with

1212
01:00:58,520 --> 01:01:02,240
Speaker 1: our medical system, it is obtaining health insurance, whether it's

1213
01:01:02,280 --> 01:01:04,240
Speaker 1: trying to get the you know, drugs that they've been

1214
01:01:04,280 --> 01:01:09,240
Speaker 1: prescribed or anything else. Yeah, guess what when your experience

1215
01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:11,520
Speaker 1: with the medical system is these people are just trying

1216
01:01:11,560 --> 01:01:15,040
Speaker 1: to price gouge me at every single point of interaction,

1217
01:01:15,800 --> 01:01:19,080
Speaker 1: that's going to fuel some skepticism and some hesitancy. So,

1218
01:01:19,560 --> 01:01:22,480
Speaker 1: you know, I think in this particular instance, going with

1219
01:01:22,600 --> 01:01:25,360
Speaker 1: a for profit approach to vaccine development, I do think

1220
01:01:25,400 --> 01:01:28,480
Speaker 1: that that was a mistake. But it is not just

1221
01:01:28,600 --> 01:01:32,600
Speaker 1: a mistake, but a tragedy and a real crime against

1222
01:01:32,760 --> 01:01:34,840
Speaker 1: you know, the people of America that we are the

1223
01:01:34,960 --> 01:01:37,640
Speaker 1: only healthcare system in the world that operates in the

1224
01:01:37,680 --> 01:01:40,360
Speaker 1: way that we do where it is about profit and

1225
01:01:40,480 --> 01:01:44,040
Speaker 1: not ultimately about health outcomes. So this is what you

1226
01:01:44,200 --> 01:01:46,440
Speaker 1: end up with, and it is sad. Yeah, Fauci, the

1227
01:01:46,520 --> 01:01:50,000
Speaker 1: people who all supported this strategy of the privatized vaccine

1228
01:01:50,040 --> 01:01:51,960
Speaker 1: and all of that, You people are the ones who

1229
01:01:51,960 --> 01:01:54,720
Speaker 1: are responsible for this. It's not on those individuals for

1230
01:01:54,760 --> 01:01:59,360
Speaker 1: asking questions, Crystal, what are you taking a look at

1231
01:01:59,560 --> 01:02:04,120
Speaker 1: a call FTX led by Sam Bankman. Freed collapsed spectacularly.

1232
01:02:04,360 --> 01:02:06,680
Speaker 1: While back in the wreckage, it became quite clear this

1233
01:02:06,840 --> 01:02:09,640
Speaker 1: was no ordinary business failure, but a classic Ponzi scheme

1234
01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:13,040
Speaker 1: in a modern crypto wrapping with billions and missing funds,

1235
01:02:13,080 --> 01:02:15,000
Speaker 1: a mountain of lies, and a founder who used a

1236
01:02:15,040 --> 01:02:18,439
Speaker 1: carefully cultivated public image to hide an alleged white collar

1237
01:02:18,520 --> 01:02:21,240
Speaker 1: crime spree. SBF is now wearing an ankle bracelet at

1238
01:02:21,280 --> 01:02:24,280
Speaker 1: his parents' mansion awaiting trial. Well, there's an interesting new

1239
01:02:24,320 --> 01:02:26,920
Speaker 1: sub drama playing out which could have huge ramifications for

1240
01:02:27,000 --> 01:02:29,919
Speaker 1: the entire YouTube creator space, but especially for the world

1241
01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:33,880
Speaker 1: of financial influencers. Investors who claim they lost money in

1242
01:02:34,040 --> 01:02:37,560
Speaker 1: FTX because of YouTube creator hype have filed a class

1243
01:02:37,640 --> 01:02:41,520
Speaker 1: action lawsuit against a number of popular finance YouTubers. The

1244
01:02:41,600 --> 01:02:44,320
Speaker 1: list of ten defendants here includes Graham Stephen of The

1245
01:02:44,360 --> 01:02:47,320
Speaker 1: Graham Stephen Show. They have four point twenty six million subscribers,

1246
01:02:47,600 --> 01:02:50,400
Speaker 1: Ben Anderson of the bit Boy crypto channel it has

1247
01:02:50,520 --> 01:02:53,800
Speaker 1: one point five to four million subscribers, and Kevin Papras

1248
01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:57,200
Speaker 1: of Meet Kevin one point eight seven million subscribers. Now,

1249
01:02:57,360 --> 01:03:00,000
Speaker 1: I actually wasn't familiar really with any of these dudes before,

1250
01:03:00,240 --> 01:03:01,600
Speaker 1: but looking at their channels kind of looks like a

1251
01:03:01,640 --> 01:03:06,320
Speaker 1: standard combination of get rich, Quick stuff, crypto promotion, elon standing, etc. Now,

1252
01:03:06,440 --> 01:03:08,919
Speaker 1: the lawsuit makes a couple of key claims here. First,

1253
01:03:09,240 --> 01:03:12,200
Speaker 1: claims that the promoters were involved in the illegal sale

1254
01:03:12,240 --> 01:03:15,840
Speaker 1: of unregistered securities. Effectively, the argument here is that the

1255
01:03:16,000 --> 01:03:20,240
Speaker 1: FTX high Yield accounts were really technically unregistered securities, which

1256
01:03:20,360 --> 01:03:23,160
Speaker 1: then have to be handled legally in a very specific way.

1257
01:03:23,520 --> 01:03:26,520
Speaker 1: The suit claims that these influencers are sophisticated and should

1258
01:03:26,520 --> 01:03:28,640
Speaker 1: have been able to see that FTX was a scam,

1259
01:03:29,040 --> 01:03:32,080
Speaker 1: and it also claims that these promoters were selling FTX

1260
01:03:32,240 --> 01:03:37,320
Speaker 1: without sufficiently disclosing that they were getting paid for that endorsement.

1261
01:03:37,720 --> 01:03:41,360
Speaker 1: For the complaint, though FTX paid defendants handsomely to push

1262
01:03:41,400 --> 01:03:44,280
Speaker 1: its brand and encourage their followers to invest, defendants did

1263
01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:47,560
Speaker 1: not disclose the nature and scope of their sponsorships and

1264
01:03:47,800 --> 01:03:51,880
Speaker 1: or endorsement deals, payments and compensation, nor conduct adequate, if any,

1265
01:03:52,120 --> 01:03:55,439
Speaker 1: due diligence. For example, Meet Kevin was apparently paid twenty

1266
01:03:55,480 --> 01:03:59,200
Speaker 1: five hundred dollars every time he even mentioned FTX, an

1267
01:03:59,280 --> 01:04:01,480
Speaker 1: arrangement that he told coffee Zilla netted him more than

1268
01:04:01,520 --> 01:04:04,800
Speaker 1: two hundred thousand dollars. How clearly was this disclosed? Well,

1269
01:04:04,800 --> 01:04:06,920
Speaker 1: that'll be a key question for Meet Kevin and other

1270
01:04:07,000 --> 01:04:11,160
Speaker 1: influencers who took money from FTX and then subsequently hyped

1271
01:04:11,280 --> 01:04:14,440
Speaker 1: their products. You'll recall that Kim Kardashian actually settled a

1272
01:04:14,520 --> 01:04:16,920
Speaker 1: case against her for a million dollars because she was

1273
01:04:16,960 --> 01:04:19,640
Speaker 1: alleged to have insufficiently disclosed that she was getting paid

1274
01:04:19,640 --> 01:04:22,640
Speaker 1: to show for some schlocky ethereum knockoff coin. She put

1275
01:04:22,760 --> 01:04:26,360
Speaker 1: hashtag ad in her Instagram post, but regulators claimed this

1276
01:04:26,560 --> 01:04:29,800
Speaker 1: was not enough. Now, in terms of this legal case here,

1277
01:04:30,160 --> 01:04:32,440
Speaker 1: to be perfectly honest with you, after reading the complaint,

1278
01:04:32,960 --> 01:04:35,720
Speaker 1: far from persuaded that this suit is going to actually succeed.

1279
01:04:35,960 --> 01:04:38,080
Speaker 1: I was expecting to see a lot of specific details

1280
01:04:38,080 --> 01:04:40,440
Speaker 1: about who was getting paid what, and specific comments they

1281
01:04:40,520 --> 01:04:43,439
Speaker 1: made which were fraudulent or lacking in appropriate disclosure. Those

1282
01:04:43,520 --> 01:04:46,160
Speaker 1: details could come out still in discovery, but there was

1283
01:04:46,280 --> 01:04:48,040
Speaker 1: not a whole lot here. At least one of the

1284
01:04:48,120 --> 01:04:51,040
Speaker 1: named influencers, bit Boy actually warned that FTX was a

1285
01:04:51,160 --> 01:04:53,360
Speaker 1: scam a month before its collapse, and claims he had

1286
01:04:53,400 --> 01:04:56,440
Speaker 1: no financial deal with them whatsoever. Coffee Zilla interviewed a

1287
01:04:56,520 --> 01:04:58,520
Speaker 1: lawyer who raised a lot of red flags about the

1288
01:04:58,560 --> 01:05:01,480
Speaker 1: case as well, finding in in particular, the notion that

1289
01:05:01,560 --> 01:05:04,600
Speaker 1: these YouTubers should have had special, non public knowledge of

1290
01:05:04,760 --> 01:05:08,000
Speaker 1: FTX to be a pretty unreasonable notion. But taking a

1291
01:05:08,040 --> 01:05:11,280
Speaker 1: step back from the rather murky legal analysis, there are

1292
01:05:11,400 --> 01:05:14,800
Speaker 1: some very clear lessons inadvertently revealed by used uber Meet

1293
01:05:14,880 --> 01:05:17,880
Speaker 1: Kevin in his response to the filing. Now that's the

1294
01:05:17,920 --> 01:05:19,800
Speaker 1: guy again, and who's getting twenty five hundred bucks a

1295
01:05:19,840 --> 01:05:22,000
Speaker 1: pop every time the word FTX came out of his mouth.

1296
01:05:22,360 --> 01:05:24,800
Speaker 1: Take a listen to a portion of the response video

1297
01:05:24,880 --> 01:05:28,040
Speaker 1: that he posted to his channel. At what point does

1298
01:05:28,520 --> 01:05:30,920
Speaker 1: sort of the promotion of an idea or a suggestion,

1299
01:05:31,160 --> 01:05:33,960
Speaker 1: paid or unpaid rise to the level of actually being

1300
01:05:34,040 --> 01:05:36,600
Speaker 1: personalized advice? And in my opinion, it does it. In

1301
01:05:36,720 --> 01:05:39,200
Speaker 1: my opinion, at no point does me saying I think

1302
01:05:39,240 --> 01:05:42,160
Speaker 1: oil is going down and it's a good short rise

1303
01:05:42,200 --> 01:05:44,560
Speaker 1: to the level of personal financial advice. At no point

1304
01:05:44,880 --> 01:05:47,640
Speaker 1: does me saying hey, I'm investing in something rise to

1305
01:05:47,680 --> 01:05:50,960
Speaker 1: the level of personalized financial advice. Personalized financial advice is

1306
01:05:51,000 --> 01:05:54,080
Speaker 1: when somebody signs a contract with a financial advisor and says, hey,

1307
01:05:54,280 --> 01:05:57,160
Speaker 1: I'm paying you specifically to advise on my portfolio. And

1308
01:05:57,240 --> 01:05:59,680
Speaker 1: by signing that contract, now the other person is taking

1309
01:05:59,720 --> 01:06:03,000
Speaker 1: the fit duciary obligation of providing the best responsibility in

1310
01:06:03,040 --> 01:06:05,800
Speaker 1: service to that person for their case. And see that,

1311
01:06:05,920 --> 01:06:08,200
Speaker 1: I think is the big difference here is when people

1312
01:06:08,240 --> 01:06:11,760
Speaker 1: who are content creators are sharing ideas and perspectives, they're

1313
01:06:11,800 --> 01:06:14,760
Speaker 1: doing just that. They're not giving you personalized insights. They're

1314
01:06:14,760 --> 01:06:17,919
Speaker 1: giving you ideas and perspectives. And the reality is people

1315
01:06:18,040 --> 01:06:20,280
Speaker 1: have to put on their big boy pants and realize

1316
01:06:20,520 --> 01:06:22,600
Speaker 1: that if you make a decision because of something you

1317
01:06:22,720 --> 01:06:26,120
Speaker 1: heard online, that's your responsibility. So when people who are

1318
01:06:26,240 --> 01:06:29,720
Speaker 1: content creators are sharing ideas and perspectives, they're doing just that.

1319
01:06:30,000 --> 01:06:33,360
Speaker 1: They're not giving you personalized insights. They're giving you ideas

1320
01:06:33,400 --> 01:06:36,440
Speaker 1: and perspectives. So here, this guy's whole thing is being

1321
01:06:36,480 --> 01:06:38,880
Speaker 1: a financial YouTube or the whole reason that people watch

1322
01:06:39,000 --> 01:06:41,760
Speaker 1: him is to get advice, But he says he's not

1323
01:06:41,840 --> 01:06:44,560
Speaker 1: actually giving advice. He loves the followers listen, of course

1324
01:06:44,600 --> 01:06:46,080
Speaker 1: to what he has to say when he's building his

1325
01:06:46,240 --> 01:06:49,000
Speaker 1: channel and cashing those checks from FTX and whoever else,

1326
01:06:49,280 --> 01:06:51,800
Speaker 1: But he wants another responsibility that comes with having an

1327
01:06:51,840 --> 01:06:55,680
Speaker 1: audience that you have explicitly cultivated to trust your guidance.

1328
01:06:56,160 --> 01:06:58,520
Speaker 1: In his words, quote, people need to put on their

1329
01:06:58,560 --> 01:07:01,120
Speaker 1: big boy pants and realize if you make a decision

1330
01:07:01,320 --> 01:07:04,800
Speaker 1: based on something you heard online, that is your responsibility.

1331
01:07:05,240 --> 01:07:07,440
Speaker 1: So basically its position here is that if you were

1332
01:07:07,520 --> 01:07:11,040
Speaker 1: dumb enough to take my advice, it's your own damn fault. Now,

1333
01:07:11,120 --> 01:07:13,240
Speaker 1: I hope anyone who listens to this type of contact

1334
01:07:13,640 --> 01:07:16,480
Speaker 1: really takes this in. If you trust a word of

1335
01:07:16,560 --> 01:07:18,680
Speaker 1: the advice that they're giving you, they think you're a

1336
01:07:18,840 --> 01:07:21,040
Speaker 1: fool who needs to put on your big boy pants

1337
01:07:21,080 --> 01:07:24,880
Speaker 1: and accept personal responsibility for the catastrophic investments that they

1338
01:07:25,040 --> 01:07:28,760
Speaker 1: were paid in many instances to promote to you. Now,

1339
01:07:28,840 --> 01:07:31,480
Speaker 1: what many of these influencers did. It might not be illegal,

1340
01:07:31,640 --> 01:07:33,920
Speaker 1: but it is wildly unethical to pump a bunch of

1341
01:07:34,040 --> 01:07:36,680
Speaker 1: risky bets that you are being paid to promote. Knowing

1342
01:07:36,760 --> 01:07:39,240
Speaker 1: how we approach our business here and our responsibility to

1343
01:07:39,320 --> 01:07:41,640
Speaker 1: all of you, I genuinely cannot wrap my head around it.

1344
01:07:41,960 --> 01:07:44,280
Speaker 1: We have decided not to talk to or take direct

1345
01:07:44,280 --> 01:07:47,439
Speaker 1: money from corporate sponsors at all, because I would feel

1346
01:07:47,560 --> 01:07:50,760
Speaker 1: terrible if I even just promoted some product that was

1347
01:07:50,840 --> 01:07:53,360
Speaker 1: kind of crappy and didn't work as advertised. When you're

1348
01:07:53,400 --> 01:07:56,680
Speaker 1: talking about people's money, or I should add also their health,

1349
01:07:57,240 --> 01:08:00,840
Speaker 1: that is a whole other level of response and a

1350
01:08:01,080 --> 01:08:05,120
Speaker 1: whole other level of callousness. I could not live with

1351
01:08:05,200 --> 01:08:07,880
Speaker 1: myself if I thought there were people who lost everything

1352
01:08:08,240 --> 01:08:12,120
Speaker 1: because I was on the FTX dole shilling for their crappy,

1353
01:08:12,880 --> 01:08:16,920
Speaker 1: fraudulent Ponzi ski. The bottom line is this, They're happy

1354
01:08:17,000 --> 01:08:19,880
Speaker 1: to profit off your trust, but they take zero responsibility

1355
01:08:19,960 --> 01:08:23,719
Speaker 1: for any wreckage that that trust creates. Meet Kevin says

1356
01:08:23,880 --> 01:08:26,800
Speaker 1: you should not consider his or any other financial influencers

1357
01:08:26,880 --> 01:08:32,200
Speaker 1: comments as personal advice, and ironically that is actually good advice.

1358
01:08:32,680 --> 01:08:36,719
Speaker 1: It's so scummy this world, I don't I mean, listen

1359
01:08:36,840 --> 01:08:39,559
Speaker 1: and if you want to hear my reaction to Crystal's monologue,

1360
01:08:39,600 --> 01:08:45,920
Speaker 1: become a premium subscriber today at Breakingpoints dot Com. All right,

1361
01:08:45,960 --> 01:08:48,880
Speaker 1: sorry were looking at yesterday. March twentieth was an important day.

1362
01:08:49,080 --> 01:08:51,240
Speaker 1: It's one that will likely pass with little fanfare and

1363
01:08:51,280 --> 01:08:53,960
Speaker 1: acknowledgment by the mainstream media. But as we covered and

1364
01:08:54,080 --> 01:08:56,080
Speaker 1: those who know, it's the twentieth anniversary of the day

1365
01:08:56,120 --> 01:08:58,400
Speaker 1: that we invaded a rock March twentieth, the day that

1366
01:08:58,439 --> 01:09:00,960
Speaker 1: American ground force has crossed to Iraq for the race

1367
01:09:01,040 --> 01:09:03,519
Speaker 1: to Bagdad. Little did those men know that we were

1368
01:09:03,600 --> 01:09:06,920
Speaker 1: doomed to waste five trillion dollars, thousands of American lives,

1369
01:09:06,960 --> 01:09:09,280
Speaker 1: who knows how many hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, and

1370
01:09:09,360 --> 01:09:12,080
Speaker 1: pouring gasoline on a global jihadist movement that took almost

1371
01:09:12,120 --> 01:09:14,879
Speaker 1: twenty years to actually bring to Bay. It is difficult

1372
01:09:14,920 --> 01:09:17,519
Speaker 1: to describe how bad the Iraq War was what it

1373
01:09:17,600 --> 01:09:19,920
Speaker 1: did to this country. It actually ruined us to our

1374
01:09:20,040 --> 01:09:22,519
Speaker 1: core at home and abroad. It set us back in

1375
01:09:22,600 --> 01:09:24,960
Speaker 1: ways we still have yet to recover from, and to me,

1376
01:09:25,160 --> 01:09:27,439
Speaker 1: it's where the root of almost all our modern problems

1377
01:09:27,439 --> 01:09:29,920
Speaker 1: stem from. Yet those who led us into the war

1378
01:09:29,960 --> 01:09:32,040
Speaker 1: in Iraq, those who supported it and beat the war

1379
01:09:32,160 --> 01:09:34,920
Speaker 1: drump for it, are still amongst us. George W. Bush

1380
01:09:35,000 --> 01:09:37,639
Speaker 1: is a celebrated painter, now pro democracy because he stood

1381
01:09:37,720 --> 01:09:40,639
Speaker 1: up to Trump. The Cheney family is a paragon of virtue. Apparently,

1382
01:09:40,840 --> 01:09:43,479
Speaker 1: Press Secretary is George Bush, who lied to the American people,

1383
01:09:43,640 --> 01:09:46,000
Speaker 1: who doomed young men to their deaths in a far

1384
01:09:46,080 --> 01:09:49,479
Speaker 1: away land, are now MSNBC stars and never Trump heroes.

1385
01:09:49,800 --> 01:09:52,320
Speaker 1: Lawmakers and thinkers who justified the war in Iraq. They

1386
01:09:52,400 --> 01:09:55,080
Speaker 1: voted for it, they defended it, propagated it remain amongst

1387
01:09:55,120 --> 01:09:57,760
Speaker 1: us to this day. Iraq is important not just because

1388
01:09:57,760 --> 01:10:00,000
Speaker 1: of how bad it was, but because those who pushed

1389
01:10:00,120 --> 01:10:03,759
Speaker 1: and justified this war today have been reborn as icons

1390
01:10:03,760 --> 01:10:06,400
Speaker 1: of the liberal establishment. They have moved from the center

1391
01:10:06,439 --> 01:10:08,839
Speaker 1: of power from right to left in this country throughout

1392
01:10:08,880 --> 01:10:11,920
Speaker 1: the ideological takeover, never taking their hands off the wheel

1393
01:10:12,000 --> 01:10:14,400
Speaker 1: of foreign policy. I was especially struck by this in

1394
01:10:14,439 --> 01:10:17,120
Speaker 1: the freak out over Ron DeSantis' comments on Ukraine and

1395
01:10:17,200 --> 01:10:19,599
Speaker 1: the people who crawled out of the woodwork to criticize him.

1396
01:10:20,280 --> 01:10:23,800
Speaker 1: Exactly four GOP lawmakers went on the record in the story.

1397
01:10:24,040 --> 01:10:26,519
Speaker 1: The first was Liz Cheney. Do I even need to

1398
01:10:26,560 --> 01:10:28,320
Speaker 1: tell you that not only did the Cheney support the

1399
01:10:28,360 --> 01:10:30,639
Speaker 1: war at the time, but that she continues to support

1400
01:10:30,680 --> 01:10:33,040
Speaker 1: the invasion and the acts of her father. The next

1401
01:10:33,040 --> 01:10:36,320
Speaker 1: one was Lindsay Graham, another noted GOP clown, who supported

1402
01:10:36,320 --> 01:10:38,840
Speaker 1: the war in Iraq at the time, never stopped supporting it,

1403
01:10:38,880 --> 01:10:41,479
Speaker 1: and recently advocated for World War three with Russia because

1404
01:10:41,479 --> 01:10:44,080
Speaker 1: our drone was forced down. The next was Marco Rubio,

1405
01:10:44,120 --> 01:10:46,960
Speaker 1: who of course, famously defended Bush for invading Iraq in

1406
01:10:47,040 --> 01:10:50,360
Speaker 1: his twenty sixteen campaign and subsequently was trounced by Trump

1407
01:10:50,479 --> 01:10:53,519
Speaker 1: in the primary. Finally, the last was John Cornyn. Cornyn,

1408
01:10:53,640 --> 01:10:56,200
Speaker 1: conveniently for US, represented Texas in the US Senate at

1409
01:10:56,240 --> 01:10:58,479
Speaker 1: the time, he voted for the war in Iraq and

1410
01:10:58,640 --> 01:11:03,040
Speaker 1: actually said in it was not a war of our choosing,

1411
01:11:03,400 --> 01:11:07,400
Speaker 1: Let's keep going. Among so called prominent conservatives who criticized DeSantis,

1412
01:11:07,720 --> 01:11:10,280
Speaker 1: David French, now a New York Times columnists who lambasted

1413
01:11:10,360 --> 01:11:12,960
Speaker 1: DeSantis for his carefully worded answer to imply that it's

1414
01:11:13,000 --> 01:11:15,559
Speaker 1: not a core US interest for Ukraine to defeat Russia

1415
01:11:15,600 --> 01:11:18,479
Speaker 1: and calling it at least in part a quote territorial dispute.

1416
01:11:18,760 --> 01:11:20,720
Speaker 1: French laid out his take on DeSantis, which is of

1417
01:11:20,800 --> 01:11:23,960
Speaker 1: course fine and a legitimate opinion, saying he's no Ronald Reagan.

1418
01:11:24,240 --> 01:11:26,479
Speaker 1: But I also happened for no, he's still a viamin

1419
01:11:26,520 --> 01:11:30,080
Speaker 1: defender of the Iraq war. He wrote in twenty nineteen quote,

1420
01:11:30,280 --> 01:11:32,560
Speaker 1: I believed the Iraq War was just and proper in

1421
01:11:32,600 --> 01:11:35,479
Speaker 1: two thousand and three. I still believe that today. So

1422
01:11:35,840 --> 01:11:38,320
Speaker 1: by that metric in the Frenchian worldview, if this is

1423
01:11:38,400 --> 01:11:41,080
Speaker 1: something that Reagan would have done. Well. I think we

1424
01:11:41,439 --> 01:11:43,320
Speaker 1: should all be out on that one. Let's keep going,

1425
01:11:43,400 --> 01:11:45,679
Speaker 1: shall we. Let's move on. David from of the Atlantic,

1426
01:11:45,960 --> 01:11:48,560
Speaker 1: from never Trump figure. Also the guy literally wrote the

1427
01:11:48,600 --> 01:11:51,120
Speaker 1: access of Evil speech the President Bush delivered dumius to

1428
01:11:51,160 --> 01:11:54,040
Speaker 1: the quote forever war on Terror? A week ago, he writes,

1429
01:11:54,160 --> 01:11:57,400
Speaker 1: is DeSantis flaming out, already advancing the idea that embracing

1430
01:11:57,439 --> 01:12:00,120
Speaker 1: a skeptical view of the US view towards Ukraine is

1431
01:12:00,160 --> 01:12:02,439
Speaker 1: trying to win quote the Fox News primary, and not

1432
01:12:02,520 --> 01:12:04,320
Speaker 1: even a few days later, comes out with a piece

1433
01:12:04,520 --> 01:12:07,519
Speaker 1: that to this day defends the Iraq War, admitting that

1434
01:12:07,600 --> 01:12:09,479
Speaker 1: while it might have been a mistake, we got at

1435
01:12:09,560 --> 01:12:12,120
Speaker 1: least something out of it. Right. Yeah, I'm just gonna

1436
01:12:12,160 --> 01:12:14,880
Speaker 1: go with wrong. I'll keep going. Let's go. Bill Krystal,

1437
01:12:15,000 --> 01:12:17,280
Speaker 1: served as a mouthpiece of the Bush administration, ran a

1438
01:12:17,360 --> 01:12:19,160
Speaker 1: magazine whose entire job it was to push for the

1439
01:12:19,240 --> 01:12:22,240
Speaker 1: Iraq war. Also hit DeSantis for not supporting Ukraine's freedom.

1440
01:12:22,439 --> 01:12:24,120
Speaker 1: Reminded me of a tweet that I'll never forget of

1441
01:12:24,200 --> 01:12:27,920
Speaker 1: his November twenty sixteen. The Iraq War was right, necessary,

1442
01:12:28,080 --> 01:12:30,760
Speaker 1: and we want it. Let's go. I can continue even more.

1443
01:12:30,920 --> 01:12:33,320
Speaker 1: I'm sure you get the point. Nicole Wallace, the former

1444
01:12:33,600 --> 01:12:36,280
Speaker 1: push a Kom's official who shielled for the war, aired

1445
01:12:36,520 --> 01:12:39,479
Speaker 1: multiple segments on her show denouncing DeSantis. All of this

1446
01:12:39,800 --> 01:12:42,760
Speaker 1: is just compiled to show you the loudest voices out

1447
01:12:42,840 --> 01:12:45,960
Speaker 1: there today beating the drum from more aid to Ukraine

1448
01:12:46,160 --> 01:12:49,400
Speaker 1: and attacking DeSantis for half harded endorsement of a trump

1449
01:12:49,479 --> 01:12:52,559
Speaker 1: Ist style worldview. Shows you how these people have suffered

1450
01:12:52,920 --> 01:12:55,920
Speaker 1: no real consequence. Worse, it shows that a group of

1451
01:12:56,040 --> 01:12:59,600
Speaker 1: people who hold tremendous power over our foreign policy and

1452
01:12:59,680 --> 01:13:03,599
Speaker 1: remain influential, are also completely out of step with most

1453
01:13:03,640 --> 01:13:07,519
Speaker 1: Americans today. The vast majority of Americans say the Iraq

1454
01:13:07,560 --> 01:13:10,960
Speaker 1: War was a terrible mistake. Sixty one percent say they

1455
01:13:11,040 --> 01:13:13,080
Speaker 1: do not believe that the US made the right decision.

1456
01:13:13,320 --> 01:13:16,520
Speaker 1: If you remove boomers from that equation, it is overwhelming

1457
01:13:16,600 --> 01:13:19,799
Speaker 1: almost all young voters saying it was a catastrophic mistake.

1458
01:13:20,040 --> 01:13:22,800
Speaker 1: With respect to Ukraine, this also shows out of step

1459
01:13:22,880 --> 01:13:26,080
Speaker 1: even these lawmakers are from their own voters. Only forty

1460
01:13:26,120 --> 01:13:28,639
Speaker 1: two percent of GOP voters even support aid to Ukraine,

1461
01:13:28,800 --> 01:13:31,240
Speaker 1: with most turning against it. This is the same trend

1462
01:13:31,320 --> 01:13:34,400
Speaker 1: amongst independents. One of the most enduring lessons of Iraq

1463
01:13:34,560 --> 01:13:39,280
Speaker 1: is that monoculture views on foreign policy lead to inevitable disasters,

1464
01:13:39,479 --> 01:13:43,439
Speaker 1: that intervention has fortieth order consequences, often which are far

1465
01:13:43,600 --> 01:13:45,920
Speaker 1: worse than people ever could predict, and that you can

1466
01:13:46,000 --> 01:13:48,560
Speaker 1: deal with the fallout for years to come if you

1467
01:13:48,600 --> 01:13:52,400
Speaker 1: get it wrong. We escaped Iraq merely penniless, torn apart

1468
01:13:52,439 --> 01:13:54,760
Speaker 1: as a country, and with a million or so people dead.

1469
01:13:55,160 --> 01:13:57,360
Speaker 1: Let's hope that the Butcher's bill is not as high,

1470
01:13:57,600 --> 01:14:00,559
Speaker 1: if not higher, for our current posture abroad. And isn't

1471
01:14:00,560 --> 01:14:02,599
Speaker 1: it amazing when you look at those side by side

1472
01:14:02,640 --> 01:14:04,720
Speaker 1: pieces on what people say and if you want to

1473
01:14:04,760 --> 01:14:08,320
Speaker 1: hear my reaction to Sager's monologue, become a premium subscriber

1474
01:14:08,360 --> 01:14:13,640
Speaker 1: today at Breakingpoints dot com. So, guys, as we have

1475
01:14:13,720 --> 01:14:17,040
Speaker 1: been discussing in the show, this week marks twenty years

1476
01:14:17,400 --> 01:14:20,760
Speaker 1: since the Iraq War invasion and joining us now to

1477
01:14:20,840 --> 01:14:23,760
Speaker 1: talk about some of the media failures then and whether

1478
01:14:23,800 --> 01:14:27,439
Speaker 1: they have learned anything in the present is doctor Tree

1479
01:14:27,520 --> 01:14:30,599
Speaker 1: to Parsi. He is executive vice president of the Quincy Institute.

1480
01:14:30,600 --> 01:14:32,960
Speaker 1: It's great to see you, sir, good sez back before

1481
01:14:33,000 --> 01:14:36,080
Speaker 1: we get into the content here, I do want to

1482
01:14:36,120 --> 01:14:39,120
Speaker 1: flag for everybody. I'm moderating a panel in conjunction with

1483
01:14:39,240 --> 01:14:42,840
Speaker 1: Quincy Institute that is going to be tomorrow and it's

1484
01:14:42,880 --> 01:14:44,720
Speaker 1: going to tackle It's a great group of people that

1485
01:14:44,760 --> 01:14:46,200
Speaker 1: are going to be on this panel, and we're sort

1486
01:14:46,200 --> 01:14:48,960
Speaker 1: of tackling how the media led us into war and

1487
01:14:49,080 --> 01:14:52,360
Speaker 1: some of these questions about what if anything has changed

1488
01:14:52,479 --> 01:14:55,280
Speaker 1: in terms of their coverage. So you can RSVP online,

1489
01:14:55,280 --> 01:14:57,160
Speaker 1: you can join us online, you can join us in person.

1490
01:14:57,240 --> 01:15:00,719
Speaker 1: It should be a great event. So with that being said,

1491
01:15:01,760 --> 01:15:06,479
Speaker 1: doctor Parcy just remind people of what a monolith the

1492
01:15:06,640 --> 01:15:10,280
Speaker 1: media was leading up to a Rock War. It wasn't

1493
01:15:10,360 --> 01:15:15,479
Speaker 1: just conservative media, it was almost uniformly across the board.

1494
01:15:16,280 --> 01:15:19,640
Speaker 1: How did they make such a grave era error of

1495
01:15:19,920 --> 01:15:22,760
Speaker 1: just trusting hook line and sinker whatever the Bush administration

1496
01:15:22,840 --> 01:15:25,400
Speaker 1: wanted to feed them the Mata error by not doing

1497
01:15:25,439 --> 01:15:28,519
Speaker 1: their jobs. The job of journalism is to question power,

1498
01:15:28,600 --> 01:15:31,560
Speaker 1: to scrutinize it, and there was no scrutinizing. There was

1499
01:15:31,640 --> 01:15:34,280
Speaker 1: no tough questions being asked instead of the media really

1500
01:15:34,439 --> 01:15:39,000
Speaker 1: helped create a groupthink situation in Washington and beyond. I

1501
01:15:39,200 --> 01:15:41,200
Speaker 1: was on the Hill at the time and it was

1502
01:15:41,360 --> 01:15:44,240
Speaker 1: very clear. It's like a switch went off when once

1503
01:15:44,320 --> 01:15:46,160
Speaker 1: the White House set the signal that they want to

1504
01:15:46,240 --> 01:15:49,000
Speaker 1: do this, you could not disagree with it publicly. People

1505
01:15:49,080 --> 01:15:51,200
Speaker 1: had to whisper in the corners if they had any

1506
01:15:51,280 --> 01:15:54,600
Speaker 1: qualms about it, and the media helped create that atmosphere

1507
01:15:54,880 --> 01:15:56,880
Speaker 1: in which if you questioned it meant you were on

1508
01:15:57,000 --> 01:15:59,559
Speaker 1: the other side, you were a Saddam hugger, just as

1509
01:15:59,640 --> 01:16:03,280
Speaker 1: much as Putin hugger today if you have question marks

1510
01:16:03,640 --> 01:16:06,800
Speaker 1: about the wisdom of this, about the tactics, about the strategy,

1511
01:16:07,120 --> 01:16:09,360
Speaker 1: but the very inception of the idea that yes, it

1512
01:16:09,520 --> 01:16:11,160
Speaker 1: is the job of the United States to go all

1513
01:16:11,200 --> 01:16:13,120
Speaker 1: the way to the other side of the world to

1514
01:16:13,240 --> 01:16:15,519
Speaker 1: create a democracy in a country that we know literally

1515
01:16:15,640 --> 01:16:18,200
Speaker 1: nothing about. Yeah, and that's something we wanted to dig into.

1516
01:16:18,320 --> 01:16:19,920
Speaker 1: Is the dynamic that you said, let's ahead and put

1517
01:16:19,920 --> 01:16:22,320
Speaker 1: this up there on the screen. From Bronco. Marstig made

1518
01:16:22,439 --> 01:16:24,439
Speaker 1: a great point twenty years ago, the Iraq War changed

1519
01:16:24,479 --> 01:16:26,880
Speaker 1: everything and taught it leads nothing. Can you, since you

1520
01:16:26,960 --> 01:16:29,519
Speaker 1: were at there at the time, compare that time to

1521
01:16:29,600 --> 01:16:32,200
Speaker 1: where we are right now in not just the Ukraine debate,

1522
01:16:32,240 --> 01:16:35,040
Speaker 1: but really the foreign policy debate in general. Well, I think,

1523
01:16:35,120 --> 01:16:38,120
Speaker 1: I have to say, having gone through Iraq, I never

1524
01:16:38,200 --> 01:16:41,080
Speaker 1: thought was going to happen again, you know, and it

1525
01:16:41,200 --> 01:16:43,960
Speaker 1: wasn't because I thought humanity had this amazing ability. I

1526
01:16:44,000 --> 01:16:48,160
Speaker 1: thought there were specific circumstances that made it particularly bad,

1527
01:16:48,720 --> 01:16:50,760
Speaker 1: and so I was quite wrong. And then seeing it

1528
01:16:50,880 --> 01:16:54,200
Speaker 1: being repeated in Ukraine, and I think what happened with Ukraine.

1529
01:16:54,280 --> 01:16:56,640
Speaker 1: Part of the reason why, both from the media and

1530
01:16:56,760 --> 01:16:59,479
Speaker 1: other ends, there was this desire to just think that

1531
01:16:59,600 --> 01:17:01,600
Speaker 1: this is the right thing to do is because of

1532
01:17:01,680 --> 01:17:04,120
Speaker 1: that desire of us wanting to be on the right

1533
01:17:04,200 --> 01:17:07,639
Speaker 1: side of history, which then means that logic and nuance,

1534
01:17:07,680 --> 01:17:09,839
Speaker 1: all of that stuff has to be said to decide.

1535
01:17:10,160 --> 01:17:12,920
Speaker 1: And it wasn't a way way of correcting in the

1536
01:17:13,000 --> 01:17:14,960
Speaker 1: minds of some people what had happened for the last

1537
01:17:15,000 --> 01:17:16,840
Speaker 1: twenty years when the United States used to be the

1538
01:17:16,880 --> 01:17:20,120
Speaker 1: aggressive of one country that invaded others, preemptive words, etc.

1539
01:17:20,600 --> 01:17:23,120
Speaker 1: And now it was someone else doing it. Great, Now

1540
01:17:23,160 --> 01:17:24,880
Speaker 1: we can be on the right side of history. We

1541
01:17:25,000 --> 01:17:27,320
Speaker 1: can be the good guys thinking that we are in

1542
01:17:27,400 --> 01:17:30,519
Speaker 1: a Marvel movie rather than being in a reality in

1543
01:17:30,680 --> 01:17:34,760
Speaker 1: which nuance is unfortunately the key thing that makes us

1544
01:17:34,800 --> 01:17:37,080
Speaker 1: better understand the world and chart it better is direct

1545
01:17:37,120 --> 01:17:40,320
Speaker 1: than for direction for our foreign policy. So I think

1546
01:17:40,360 --> 01:17:43,360
Speaker 1: that desire really kicked in and it made it at

1547
01:17:43,520 --> 01:17:46,439
Speaker 1: times even worse. And one thing I have to say

1548
01:17:46,479 --> 01:17:49,240
Speaker 1: that is really really scary. I follow stuff in Europe

1549
01:17:49,240 --> 01:17:53,439
Speaker 1: a lot. I grew up in Sweden. They didn't have

1550
01:17:53,560 --> 01:17:55,760
Speaker 1: the group think back in two thousand and three, as

1551
01:17:55,800 --> 01:18:00,000
Speaker 1: you know want critically. Now they're in a worse situation

1552
01:18:00,640 --> 01:18:03,840
Speaker 1: than the United States. I have to say, the conversation

1553
01:18:04,000 --> 01:18:06,760
Speaker 1: here not saying that it's great, but the conversation here

1554
01:18:07,000 --> 01:18:11,920
Speaker 1: is better, and it is in many capitals in Europe

1555
01:18:12,000 --> 01:18:14,439
Speaker 1: right now. And that really came as a surprise. That

1556
01:18:14,560 --> 01:18:15,880
Speaker 1: was your experience when you were there. I was going

1557
01:18:15,960 --> 01:18:17,479
Speaker 1: to say, I was just in the UK a month

1558
01:18:17,479 --> 01:18:19,160
Speaker 1: ago and I was I was like, man, they put

1559
01:18:19,240 --> 01:18:23,160
Speaker 1: us to shame their media. Yeah, there was a caller,

1560
01:18:23,200 --> 01:18:25,160
Speaker 1: you know, I think it was like LBC radio is

1561
01:18:25,280 --> 01:18:27,360
Speaker 1: exactly what you're referencing. All he said was maybe we

1562
01:18:27,400 --> 01:18:29,880
Speaker 1: shouldn't send fighter jets to you, and this guy, the

1563
01:18:30,439 --> 01:18:33,640
Speaker 1: host just lost it on him. My anti democracy all that.

1564
01:18:33,760 --> 01:18:35,280
Speaker 1: I was like, man, if that's how it is here,

1565
01:18:35,680 --> 01:18:37,840
Speaker 1: you know, And to be fair, I guess London is

1566
01:18:37,880 --> 01:18:40,760
Speaker 1: the most hawkish. But maybe talk about that as well

1567
01:18:41,000 --> 01:18:44,080
Speaker 1: in the context of the need at the time with

1568
01:18:44,320 --> 01:18:47,839
Speaker 1: Iraq to have the countervailing point of view. I said yesterday,

1569
01:18:47,840 --> 01:18:49,599
Speaker 1: you know, one of the great failures. Sure the media

1570
01:18:49,680 --> 01:18:50,800
Speaker 1: was there, but it was also the Hill, you know,

1571
01:18:50,920 --> 01:18:52,280
Speaker 1: like there at the end of the day, could have

1572
01:18:52,320 --> 01:18:54,840
Speaker 1: had access to the secret intelligence. They could have asked questions,

1573
01:18:55,040 --> 01:18:58,240
Speaker 1: had hearings. Instead, he had Joe Biden and the Senate

1574
01:18:58,280 --> 01:19:01,240
Speaker 1: Foreign Relations Committee. But not just but he is a

1575
01:19:01,280 --> 01:19:04,880
Speaker 1: president now, but all senior leaders are completely lining up

1576
01:19:04,920 --> 01:19:07,840
Speaker 1: the President Bush at the time and basically validating their

1577
01:19:07,920 --> 01:19:10,840
Speaker 1: case for Iraq. I mean, has that changed in any

1578
01:19:10,880 --> 01:19:12,760
Speaker 1: way at least or what do you have not to

1579
01:19:12,800 --> 01:19:14,360
Speaker 1: an extent that it should. And I think again it

1580
01:19:14,439 --> 01:19:17,679
Speaker 1: comes down to, instead of looking at to his issues

1581
01:19:17,840 --> 01:19:22,400
Speaker 1: as hard foreign policy issues that need to be analyzed,

1582
01:19:22,439 --> 01:19:26,320
Speaker 1: we quickly moralize it. There's a good and a bad side.

1583
01:19:26,720 --> 01:19:29,400
Speaker 1: And once we do it that way, you're not allowed

1584
01:19:29,439 --> 01:19:33,040
Speaker 1: to any longer have question marks about strategy, tactics, etc.

1585
01:19:33,360 --> 01:19:36,120
Speaker 1: Because if you have those questions marks, you are then

1586
01:19:36,240 --> 01:19:39,000
Speaker 1: citing with the evil guy in the equation. That's not

1587
01:19:39,160 --> 01:19:41,960
Speaker 1: to say that what Russia did in Ukraine is completely wrong,

1588
01:19:42,040 --> 01:19:45,200
Speaker 1: it's a violation of international law. All of those things

1589
01:19:45,240 --> 01:19:48,240
Speaker 1: are true, but when we look at foreign policy through

1590
01:19:48,400 --> 01:19:52,800
Speaker 1: that moralizing lens, we eliminate the possibility to be able

1591
01:19:52,840 --> 01:19:57,000
Speaker 1: to actually have a nuanced, logical, critical conversation about what

1592
01:19:57,120 --> 01:19:59,680
Speaker 1: the right way out of this situation is. It's all

1593
01:19:59,680 --> 01:20:02,760
Speaker 1: about taking side, and the end result of that is

1594
01:20:02,800 --> 01:20:05,280
Speaker 1: that far more people die. So even if you want

1595
01:20:05,320 --> 01:20:07,000
Speaker 1: to take a look at it from a moral position,

1596
01:20:07,400 --> 01:20:10,000
Speaker 1: the outcome is likely going to be worse from that

1597
01:20:10,120 --> 01:20:12,200
Speaker 1: moral position as well. You know, I was thinking the

1598
01:20:12,280 --> 01:20:15,040
Speaker 1: other day about remember when progress is put together that

1599
01:20:15,280 --> 01:20:19,720
Speaker 1: letter that was like so mild, was like, look, we

1600
01:20:19,840 --> 01:20:22,840
Speaker 1: totally support what the president is doing. We think he's great,

1601
01:20:22,880 --> 01:20:25,680
Speaker 1: and Russia's you know, obviously illegal invasion, all of that,

1602
01:20:25,760 --> 01:20:28,639
Speaker 1: but maybe we should potentially consider diplomacy. That's not exactly

1603
01:20:28,680 --> 01:20:30,240
Speaker 1: what it said, but that was basically the gist of

1604
01:20:30,280 --> 01:20:34,280
Speaker 1: the letter, and the backlash to that was so over

1605
01:20:34,400 --> 01:20:37,120
Speaker 1: the top. They end up apollo, they pull it, they

1606
01:20:37,200 --> 01:20:40,479
Speaker 1: apologize for it. We really haven't heard a word of

1607
01:20:40,560 --> 01:20:44,720
Speaker 1: dissent from progressives since then. And that was you know,

1608
01:20:44,960 --> 01:20:48,479
Speaker 1: both sort of like political backlash but also a lot

1609
01:20:48,520 --> 01:20:52,200
Speaker 1: of that was fomented by the media. It seems to

1610
01:20:52,320 --> 01:20:56,479
Speaker 1: me like the the attempt to crush descent coming from

1611
01:20:56,760 --> 01:21:01,320
Speaker 1: the progressive left elected left has been very successful. I

1612
01:21:01,400 --> 01:21:04,280
Speaker 1: have to say the idea that this only comes from

1613
01:21:04,320 --> 01:21:07,760
Speaker 1: one side is simply not true. It comes from all sides.

1614
01:21:07,800 --> 01:21:12,160
Speaker 1: It's an unfortunate human condition, and we have to recognize

1615
01:21:12,240 --> 01:21:14,960
Speaker 1: that rather than again throwing ourselves and thinking, oh, it's

1616
01:21:15,000 --> 01:21:17,800
Speaker 1: only the political opponents that are doing it this way,

1617
01:21:17,880 --> 01:21:19,400
Speaker 1: this is happening on both sides. I think it was

1618
01:21:19,439 --> 01:21:22,439
Speaker 1: a huge mistake the reaction to that letter. That letter

1619
01:21:22,520 --> 01:21:26,839
Speaker 1: simply just said, look for supporting the defense of Ukraine,

1620
01:21:27,040 --> 01:21:30,040
Speaker 1: but there's got to be a diplomatic element to it

1621
01:21:30,120 --> 01:21:32,479
Speaker 1: as well, and rest a sure at one point there

1622
01:21:32,520 --> 01:21:36,080
Speaker 1: will be. And at that point the closing of political

1623
01:21:36,160 --> 01:21:38,280
Speaker 1: space that has happened is going to make it all

1624
01:21:38,360 --> 01:21:40,320
Speaker 1: the more difficult for the White House to go in

1625
01:21:40,439 --> 01:21:43,639
Speaker 1: that direction. This was a letter aimed at creating political

1626
01:21:43,720 --> 01:21:46,479
Speaker 1: space for the administration so that when it felt that

1627
01:21:46,680 --> 01:21:50,760
Speaker 1: the opportunity was there to shift towards diplomacy, it would

1628
01:21:50,760 --> 01:21:52,519
Speaker 1: be able to do so without having a lot of

1629
01:21:52,600 --> 01:21:55,360
Speaker 1: resistance in Washington. And that was squashed that was a

1630
01:21:55,479 --> 01:21:58,559
Speaker 1: huge mistake. And incidentally, just a couple of days later,

1631
01:21:58,640 --> 01:22:01,040
Speaker 1: it turns out that Jake Salloon was going to Moscow,

1632
01:22:01,280 --> 01:22:06,240
Speaker 1: Oh sorry, what was going and talked to a Russian counterpart.

1633
01:22:06,560 --> 01:22:10,040
Speaker 1: So clearly the White House was already engaged in some

1634
01:22:10,240 --> 01:22:13,559
Speaker 1: of this activity of diplomacy. So those who thought they

1635
01:22:13,600 --> 01:22:17,320
Speaker 1: were defending the president by squashing it had no clue

1636
01:22:17,600 --> 01:22:20,479
Speaker 1: what the White House actually was doing, because they were engaged.

1637
01:22:20,640 --> 01:22:22,560
Speaker 1: Not at the level, not at the extent that I

1638
01:22:22,600 --> 01:22:25,320
Speaker 1: would like to see, but nevertheless there were some diplomacy

1639
01:22:25,400 --> 01:22:27,960
Speaker 1: taking place. Whereas the defenders of the White House thought

1640
01:22:28,000 --> 01:22:30,040
Speaker 1: that they had to squash this clearly showed they had

1641
01:22:30,120 --> 01:22:32,160
Speaker 1: no clue what was going on. They had no clue

1642
01:22:32,200 --> 01:22:34,200
Speaker 1: where the White House wanted to go. But they were

1643
01:22:34,280 --> 01:22:37,639
Speaker 1: acting as this moral police of being able to decide

1644
01:22:37,880 --> 01:22:39,720
Speaker 1: who's allowed to have an opinion on this and who

1645
01:22:39,840 --> 01:22:43,559
Speaker 1: was not. Well, my last question is on at least

1646
01:22:43,600 --> 01:22:46,400
Speaker 1: the space has been opened. You're with the Quincy Institute,

1647
01:22:46,520 --> 01:22:49,560
Speaker 1: with figures like you in the foreign policy debate, do

1648
01:22:49,640 --> 01:22:51,760
Speaker 1: you think what are the best ways that you think

1649
01:22:51,840 --> 01:22:54,680
Speaker 1: that people ordinary people, but also here in Washington, we

1650
01:22:54,800 --> 01:22:56,600
Speaker 1: could move it so that there is at least a

1651
01:22:56,680 --> 01:23:01,519
Speaker 1: fair one and stood a Iraq style event happen again. Well,

1652
01:23:01,840 --> 01:23:04,040
Speaker 1: I think the key thing again is to have the

1653
01:23:04,120 --> 01:23:07,000
Speaker 1: moral courage of asking questions and doesn't mean you're taking

1654
01:23:07,040 --> 01:23:10,200
Speaker 1: the other side. It means that you have to question

1655
01:23:10,400 --> 01:23:14,640
Speaker 1: these things in order to improve the various directions that

1656
01:23:14,720 --> 01:23:17,440
Speaker 1: we might consider to go. And I think the emergence

1657
01:23:17,479 --> 01:23:20,840
Speaker 1: of breaking points and alternative media is essential to this.

1658
01:23:21,360 --> 01:23:23,840
Speaker 1: The problem I see though, is if you have half

1659
01:23:23,920 --> 01:23:27,800
Speaker 1: the population only watching mainstream media and the other half

1660
01:23:27,960 --> 01:23:31,120
Speaker 1: only watching alternative media and never talking to each other,

1661
01:23:31,439 --> 01:23:34,719
Speaker 1: all that's going to lead to is further polarization, further

1662
01:23:34,880 --> 01:23:36,800
Speaker 1: looking at it from a moral lens of you know,

1663
01:23:36,960 --> 01:23:39,280
Speaker 1: there's us and then there's the others, and that's not

1664
01:23:39,439 --> 01:23:40,800
Speaker 1: going to help. But at the end of the day,

1665
01:23:40,840 --> 01:23:43,040
Speaker 1: it's still a step in the right direction, because if

1666
01:23:43,080 --> 01:23:45,920
Speaker 1: we didn't have breaking points and alternative shows that brought

1667
01:23:45,960 --> 01:23:48,600
Speaker 1: on other guests that asked these questions, it would be

1668
01:23:48,760 --> 01:23:51,519
Speaker 1: exactly where we were with Iraq, in which no questions

1669
01:23:51,560 --> 01:23:54,720
Speaker 1: were acting and incidentally was very fascinating. I personally benefited

1670
01:23:54,760 --> 01:23:57,759
Speaker 1: from this. I was leading the Iranian and nationally Irani

1671
01:23:57,760 --> 01:24:02,120
Speaker 1: American Council and then the way the media two years,

1672
01:24:02,240 --> 01:24:05,080
Speaker 1: three years after the Rock War wanted to compensate for

1673
01:24:05,160 --> 01:24:07,200
Speaker 1: a mistake that they had committed, that they knew that

1674
01:24:07,240 --> 01:24:09,360
Speaker 1: they had committed, but very few of them were willing

1675
01:24:09,400 --> 01:24:13,280
Speaker 1: to admit, was to actively go and seek alternative voices

1676
01:24:13,920 --> 01:24:17,080
Speaker 1: and bring those in. That's good, it was not bad. Again,

1677
01:24:17,360 --> 01:24:19,960
Speaker 1: it's not good if you're not learning from it in

1678
01:24:20,120 --> 01:24:23,040
Speaker 1: order to prevent the mistake in the first place. Right. Yeah, Well,

1679
01:24:23,120 --> 01:24:24,960
Speaker 1: one of the things, you know, I'm excited to talk

1680
01:24:25,040 --> 01:24:29,200
Speaker 1: to Jonathan Landay is on the panel tomorrow and he

1681
01:24:29,360 --> 01:24:31,640
Speaker 1: for people who don't know, he was a journalist with

1682
01:24:31,760 --> 01:24:35,439
Speaker 1: Knight Ridder at the time and one of the few

1683
01:24:36,320 --> 01:24:40,160
Speaker 1: who actually dared to question and they were on an island.

1684
01:24:40,200 --> 01:24:42,680
Speaker 1: I mean, they're putting out you know, they're putting out

1685
01:24:42,720 --> 01:24:45,759
Speaker 1: reporting that was accurate. That said basically the vice president

1686
01:24:45,880 --> 01:24:49,040
Speaker 1: is lying. This case about WMD is completely made up

1687
01:24:49,080 --> 01:24:51,680
Speaker 1: and fictitious. Meanwhile, you know, the paper of record, New

1688
01:24:51,720 --> 01:24:54,920
Speaker 1: York Times is publishing Judy Miller columns practically every day

1689
01:24:55,560 --> 01:24:58,720
Speaker 1: that are directly opposed to that. And part of what

1690
01:24:58,880 --> 01:25:00,519
Speaker 1: he has said in the past, and I want to

1691
01:25:00,560 --> 01:25:03,560
Speaker 1: hear more from him tomorrow, is that the reason he

1692
01:25:03,840 --> 01:25:06,840
Speaker 1: and some of his colleagues there were able to get

1693
01:25:06,880 --> 01:25:09,559
Speaker 1: the story right is because number one, they actually didn't

1694
01:25:09,600 --> 01:25:12,040
Speaker 1: have access to these top level officials who would lie

1695
01:25:12,080 --> 01:25:13,439
Speaker 1: to them. And when they did talk to them, they

1696
01:25:13,479 --> 01:25:15,920
Speaker 1: were skeptical, right, they were talking more to like the

1697
01:25:16,840 --> 01:25:20,720
Speaker 1: mid tier career bureaucrats. But also they really took to

1698
01:25:20,880 --> 01:25:25,000
Speaker 1: heart the fact that their papers were were going out to,

1699
01:25:25,240 --> 01:25:28,599
Speaker 1: you know, towns that had military bases where they saw

1700
01:25:28,680 --> 01:25:31,960
Speaker 1: themselves not as writing for the DC elite. They were

1701
01:25:32,040 --> 01:25:34,600
Speaker 1: doing journalism that they wanted to serve, you know, the

1702
01:25:34,680 --> 01:25:36,800
Speaker 1: sons and daughters who are going to be sent over

1703
01:25:36,920 --> 01:25:39,599
Speaker 1: to Iraq to fight and die. And that's what they

1704
01:25:39,680 --> 01:25:43,800
Speaker 1: really took to heart. So, you know, I think part

1705
01:25:43,960 --> 01:25:46,760
Speaker 1: of why things may have gotten worse is there's been

1706
01:25:46,840 --> 01:25:50,679
Speaker 1: so much media consolidation, like everything is basically national press

1707
01:25:50,760 --> 01:25:52,960
Speaker 1: now at least at this sort of like corporate legacy

1708
01:25:53,880 --> 01:25:57,519
Speaker 1: media level, and so you don't have that same local

1709
01:25:57,600 --> 01:26:02,120
Speaker 1: connectivity or sense of loyalty to people who are out

1710
01:26:02,200 --> 01:26:03,880
Speaker 1: in the nation who are the ones who bear the

1711
01:26:04,120 --> 01:26:08,320
Speaker 1: cost of horrible foreign policy decisions. Yeah, I mean everywhere

1712
01:26:08,360 --> 01:26:11,520
Speaker 1: else we hear that the diversity of views and viewpoints

1713
01:26:11,560 --> 01:26:14,400
Speaker 1: are important in order to get the best possible decisions right,

1714
01:26:14,479 --> 01:26:15,960
Speaker 1: but when it comes to the media, we see the

1715
01:26:16,040 --> 01:26:19,160
Speaker 1: direction going in exactly the opposite direction. As well as

1716
01:26:19,400 --> 01:26:23,160
Speaker 1: within government as well. I mean, it cannot be easy

1717
01:26:23,160 --> 01:26:25,800
Speaker 1: to be inside government having a different view, knowing very

1718
01:26:25,840 --> 01:26:28,720
Speaker 1: well that your career path is going to be severely

1719
01:26:30,320 --> 01:26:35,760
Speaker 1: set back if you are expressing questions and skepticism about

1720
01:26:35,800 --> 01:26:38,120
Speaker 1: certain decisions. Yeah, I think that's all well said. Well,

1721
01:26:38,120 --> 01:26:40,519
Speaker 1: I'm excited for the panel tomorrow. Thank you for inviting

1722
01:26:40,600 --> 01:26:42,320
Speaker 1: me to do it. It's going to be really interesting

1723
01:26:42,400 --> 01:26:44,040
Speaker 1: to dig into and it's always great to have you.

1724
01:26:44,080 --> 01:26:45,800
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Thank you so much. Good to

1725
01:26:45,800 --> 01:26:48,080
Speaker 1: see you appreciate it. All right, we'll see you guys later.

1726
01:27:07,200 --> 01:27:07,599
Speaker 1: Abou