1
00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:04,200
Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

2
00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,160
Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

3
00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:11,840
Speaker 1: today's best minds. Media and editor in chief Aiden McLaughlin

4
00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:16,279
Speaker 1: joins us to talk about what is happening with those

5
00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:19,840
Speaker 1: Tucker cross and video leaks. Then we'll talk to Fair

6
00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:23,520
Speaker 1: Votes David Daily about the latest and jerry mandering and

7
00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:27,080
Speaker 1: voter suppression. But first we have the editor of The Bulwark.

8
00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:31,240
Speaker 1: I will be appearing with and New York's Peter J.

9
00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:35,160
Speaker 1: Sharp Theater on May eighteenth, along with the Charlie Sykes,

10
00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:38,920
Speaker 1: Tim Miller and Sarah Longwell. You can buy tickets on

11
00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:45,120
Speaker 1: the Bulwarks website. Ladies and gentlemen, The bullworks Jonathan Last.

12
00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:50,040
Speaker 1: Welcome too, Fast Politics, Jonathan Last.

13
00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:52,960
Speaker 2: Mollie, how are you?

14
00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:55,240
Speaker 1: You know like you're one of my favorite editors in

15
00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:58,279
Speaker 1: the entire world, So to get to talk to you,

16
00:00:58,400 --> 00:00:59,360
Speaker 1: it's just a delight.

17
00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:01,840
Speaker 2: That's down. I used to be your favorite editor in

18
00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:05,360
Speaker 2: the whole world. So you have found people better than me,

19
00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:06,559
Speaker 2: which is great.

20
00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:09,960
Speaker 1: No, it's just a memory makes the heart grow more

21
00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:10,839
Speaker 1: confused and.

22
00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:12,120
Speaker 2: Out of sight, out of mind.

23
00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:13,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.

24
00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:17,080
Speaker 1: So I want to talk to you about the very

25
00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:21,360
Speaker 1: very unfair firing of one Tucker Carlson. Was he really

26
00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:24,680
Speaker 1: fired for that one text? I love that text because

27
00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:26,960
Speaker 1: it's like, it's still not as bad as what he

28
00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:28,640
Speaker 1: said on the air every single night.

29
00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:31,600
Speaker 2: I have no insight into this, but it does seem

30
00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:36,400
Speaker 2: to me that these leaks are most probably coming from Fox.

31
00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:38,800
Speaker 3: Right one Arena Baganti.

32
00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:41,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, Fox seems to be on a campaign to make

33
00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:44,280
Speaker 2: it look like this is the reason they fired him.

34
00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:47,960
Speaker 2: The real reason is probably the reason which makes the

35
00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:50,920
Speaker 2: Fox executives and ownership look the worst, which is that

36
00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:54,960
Speaker 2: they didn't like in support nation. You know, it's like

37
00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:58,520
Speaker 2: the story of capitalism throughout the ages, right the bosses.

38
00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:01,240
Speaker 2: The bosses have a worker makes them a lot of money,

39
00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:03,920
Speaker 2: and they're one to tolerate anything that that worker does

40
00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:07,360
Speaker 2: that's bad except disrespecting the bosses. And that's when they

41
00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:10,640
Speaker 2: suddenly say, Ah, don't they understand who we are? We

42
00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:12,679
Speaker 2: own this thing right right.

43
00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:16,320
Speaker 1: Now, it seems very clear to me that we're just

44
00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:19,560
Speaker 1: not getting the whole story. Though even beyond that, I mean,

45
00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:22,800
Speaker 1: I think he's expensive, and I think he's crazy, and

46
00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:25,320
Speaker 1: I think they were sick of paying out lawsuits.

47
00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:27,760
Speaker 3: I still don't think we're getting the whole story.

48
00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:31,280
Speaker 2: Well, good news is, eventually we will. There are too

49
00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:35,280
Speaker 2: many people with too many conflicting motives and incentives for

50
00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:38,320
Speaker 2: this to actually stay buried. And also, Rupert's going to die.

51
00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:40,880
Speaker 2: So I don't mean to be ghoulish, but God, you're

52
00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:43,720
Speaker 2: so goulish. I know, I know, and I hope that

53
00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:47,360
Speaker 2: he has a long, beautiful natural life and can marry

54
00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:50,040
Speaker 2: six or seven more women before he's called home to

55
00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:50,440
Speaker 2: the father.

56
00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:53,320
Speaker 3: Just because he's nine thousand years old doesn't mean he's

57
00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:53,960
Speaker 3: going to die.

58
00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:57,280
Speaker 2: But here's the thing, right, once he goes, it's going

59
00:02:57,360 --> 00:02:59,440
Speaker 2: to be lord of the flies. Right, there will be

60
00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:02,480
Speaker 2: all sorts of people who have lists of where bodies

61
00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:04,400
Speaker 2: are buried, who are going to rush out to try

62
00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:07,360
Speaker 2: to enhance their positions in what comes next, and so

63
00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:08,760
Speaker 2: all of this will come out.

64
00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:11,079
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's a fair assessment.

65
00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:14,240
Speaker 2: We just have to wait until Rupert is called home.

66
00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:17,919
Speaker 1: As uncomfortable as I am with the idea of death,

67
00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:21,720
Speaker 1: it does seem to me that the center cannot hold

68
00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:22,080
Speaker 1: on this.

69
00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:24,520
Speaker 2: I think that's right. It's too big a story, you know.

70
00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:26,440
Speaker 2: I guess Tucker's going to lunch his own media company

71
00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:28,080
Speaker 2: or something, which is what it seemed.

72
00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:30,720
Speaker 3: Like, but announced it seems like the obvious choice.

73
00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:33,639
Speaker 2: But so well, I would say it wasn't the obvious choice.

74
00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:35,280
Speaker 2: There are a bunch of things he could have done.

75
00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:35,440
Speaker 1: Well.

76
00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:38,160
Speaker 2: He could have just written books. Right, you write a book,

77
00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:41,040
Speaker 2: then you can cut all of the middlemen and just

78
00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:43,040
Speaker 2: go right to your audience with whatever you want to say,

79
00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:44,520
Speaker 2: and you can make a ton of money doing it.

80
00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:47,000
Speaker 2: And he could have sold a lot of books. He

81
00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:49,800
Speaker 2: could have taken some time off for self reflection. He

82
00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:55,080
Speaker 2: could have go on to a monastery press saying I'm

83
00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:56,880
Speaker 2: just saying, look, he's got enough money. He could have

84
00:03:56,920 --> 00:03:58,360
Speaker 2: not worked. He could have done spend the rest of

85
00:03:58,400 --> 00:03:59,480
Speaker 2: his time doing charity.

86
00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:03,040
Speaker 1: Work, right, making Kelly dilemma, Right, you have millions of dollars,

87
00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:05,800
Speaker 1: but you don't. But you didn't do this for the money.

88
00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:07,520
Speaker 3: You did it for the fame I got.

89
00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:09,840
Speaker 2: You know what I anybody wants to give me millions

90
00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:11,520
Speaker 2: of dollars to go away, I'll just go away.

91
00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:12,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, me too.

92
00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:14,120
Speaker 2: If you would like to come and write me a

93
00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:16,280
Speaker 2: go away check, then you'll never have to listen to

94
00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:17,799
Speaker 2: me talk about anything else ever again.

95
00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:18,920
Speaker 3: Exactly.

96
00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:21,960
Speaker 1: But I mean the drive that these people have is

97
00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:26,800
Speaker 1: not related to their welse, it's related to their zealotry.

98
00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:30,159
Speaker 2: It's about the love I think. I think. No, I'm

99
00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:32,680
Speaker 2: serious though, I mean this in like the showbiz sense

100
00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:33,080
Speaker 2: of the word.

101
00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:33,360
Speaker 4: Right.

102
00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:36,120
Speaker 2: What's intoxicating is being loved.

103
00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:37,560
Speaker 3: At scale, right exactly.

104
00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:39,720
Speaker 2: And if the price of being loved at scale is

105
00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:42,960
Speaker 2: being hated at scale as well, some people won't take that,

106
00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:45,719
Speaker 2: you know, won't take that that deal because being hated

107
00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:48,040
Speaker 2: at scale really hurts. But there's a certain type of

108
00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:51,039
Speaker 2: personality that a certain type of personality who gets off

109
00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:51,360
Speaker 2: on it.

110
00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:55,719
Speaker 1: Right, As someone who's hated at scale, It's okay, It's

111
00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:56,920
Speaker 1: not as bad as you think.

112
00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:00,680
Speaker 3: There's an adjustment period, but it's not as bad as

113
00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:01,159
Speaker 3: you think.

114
00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:03,640
Speaker 2: This is something I've struggled with. I've only been hated

115
00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:05,880
Speaker 2: at scale for like a couple moments in my life,

116
00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:08,400
Speaker 2: you know, because my level of visibility is firmly in

117
00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:08,799
Speaker 2: the middle.

118
00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:09,839
Speaker 3: There's still time.

119
00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:15,159
Speaker 2: And I have found it really disconcerting the caneful of

120
00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:18,000
Speaker 2: times when I've you know, become hated at scale and

121
00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:19,880
Speaker 2: I just I didn't like it. And I've like asked

122
00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:22,360
Speaker 2: around to like famous friends to say, how do you

123
00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:24,480
Speaker 2: deal with this. And what made me sort of a

124
00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:27,280
Speaker 2: little weird about is that none of them had real advice.

125
00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:30,760
Speaker 2: They were just like, it's fine, and so it led

126
00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:33,760
Speaker 2: me to believe that this is just a genetic predisposition.

127
00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:33,919
Speaker 4: Right.

128
00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:35,760
Speaker 2: There are people who can handle this, some people who can't.

129
00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:36,960
Speaker 2: And I'm one of the people who can't.

130
00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:39,560
Speaker 1: So no, you know, I also think you just get

131
00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:43,280
Speaker 1: used to it, and then like for a while you're like, oh,

132
00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:44,440
Speaker 1: this is so terrible.

133
00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:45,479
Speaker 3: These people all hate me.

134
00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:48,279
Speaker 1: And then you're like, all right, yeah, well you're like,

135
00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:51,240
Speaker 1: oh wow, You're like they hate me, but you know

136
00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:53,159
Speaker 1: they're listening to the podcast, you know.

137
00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:55,640
Speaker 2: And then there are people who literally just get off

138
00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:57,800
Speaker 2: on it, right, right, I mean, there are people for

139
00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:00,840
Speaker 2: whom being hated at scale is like a kink for sure,

140
00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:05,720
Speaker 2: and they're like, oh.

141
00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:04,800
Speaker 3: Well, took Carlson.

142
00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:08,000
Speaker 1: I mean took her Carlson, you know, as much as

143
00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:10,560
Speaker 1: I mean, when you listen to those videos, you realize like,

144
00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:13,960
Speaker 1: this is a person who actually I don't think he

145
00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:17,279
Speaker 1: would pick like I think he is. He's quite comfortable

146
00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:19,320
Speaker 1: being hated by a large quantity.

147
00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:22,800
Speaker 2: I think that may be right. I don't know, so speaking.

148
00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:27,080
Speaker 1: Of large quantities, you have so many Republican candidates and

149
00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:31,440
Speaker 1: this field is really open. So when does Trump just

150
00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:33,320
Speaker 1: be declared the nominee?

151
00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:36,760
Speaker 2: You know, I wonder how far away we are from

152
00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:40,120
Speaker 2: the move to short circuit the primary process itself.

153
00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:42,000
Speaker 3: Oh god, it's going.

154
00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:45,080
Speaker 2: To happen at some point, right, at some point, there

155
00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:49,359
Speaker 2: will be a Look, President Trump is so far ahead

156
00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:52,120
Speaker 2: that it is impossible that anybody could catch up with him,

157
00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:56,039
Speaker 2: and so we should move to doing this via acclamation, right,

158
00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:59,279
Speaker 2: or we'll have party. We'll have a party convention, and

159
00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:01,640
Speaker 2: a party can be well, you know, at the state level,

160
00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:04,560
Speaker 2: will hold a vote and that's help will decide our delegates.

161
00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:07,080
Speaker 2: No need to go through an actual voting primary.

162
00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:09,800
Speaker 1: Imagine how fucked up that is, you know, like that's

163
00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:13,760
Speaker 1: the moment that the Republican Party has completely abandoned even

164
00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:15,560
Speaker 1: the pretense of democracy.

165
00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:17,880
Speaker 2: They did it in twenty twenty. They were afraid of

166
00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:21,680
Speaker 2: like having Joe Walsh and mister you know, the South

167
00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:25,080
Speaker 2: Carolina governor who went hiking with his mistress or something.

168
00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:26,240
Speaker 2: I forget the fellow's name.

169
00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:29,240
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that guy, Yeah.

170
00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:31,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, They would go Marshall. They didn't want him going

171
00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:33,120
Speaker 2: to Shogho with those guys, even.

172
00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:35,840
Speaker 1: If hiking with your mistress is wrong, he doesn't want

173
00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:36,400
Speaker 1: to be right.

174
00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:39,040
Speaker 2: I think we're on the way to that. I don't

175
00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:42,480
Speaker 2: think it'll happen. I think that the Republican Party will

176
00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:45,600
Speaker 2: go ahead with having an actual process, and I think

177
00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:48,200
Speaker 2: that it's an open question as to whether or not

178
00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:50,520
Speaker 2: anybody can make a move on Trump. I don't think

179
00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:52,480
Speaker 2: they can. I should put my cards on the table

180
00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:55,280
Speaker 2: for people who don't read me. You love Trump, I

181
00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:57,880
Speaker 2: just I love Trump and I need him from my business.

182
00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:01,200
Speaker 2: And so that's why. So I I said that Trump

183
00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:03,120
Speaker 2: was going to be the twenty twenty four nominee. I

184
00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:06,880
Speaker 2: started writing this in October of twenty twenty, so before

185
00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:10,640
Speaker 2: the elections, I was on the record saying, look, Trump

186
00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:12,560
Speaker 2: is going to lose, and then he's going to declare

187
00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:14,800
Speaker 2: immediately that he's running again, and then he's going to

188
00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:17,480
Speaker 2: be the nominee in twenty twenty four. And everybody was like, oh,

189
00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:24,040
Speaker 2: through Trump derangement, sent Trump And here's the problem, right,

190
00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:27,280
Speaker 2: he won't go away. Well, there's a foundational problem for

191
00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:29,920
Speaker 2: opposing him, which is that if you are going to

192
00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:32,400
Speaker 2: be a Republican in good standing, you must stipulate that

193
00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:36,240
Speaker 2: a Donald Trump was the greatest president in the history

194
00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:40,000
Speaker 2: of presidents. B That everything Donald Trump did was great

195
00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:41,760
Speaker 2: and you agree with it and you will do the

196
00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:45,440
Speaker 2: same things. See that Donald Trump won the twenty twenty

197
00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:48,400
Speaker 2: election and was unfairly cheated by the Democrats and the

198
00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:51,720
Speaker 2: deep state and the big tech and the media, and

199
00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:55,080
Speaker 2: so step d to that is, so vote for me, Like,

200
00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:55,880
Speaker 2: how does that work?

201
00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:56,720
Speaker 3: Right now?

202
00:08:56,760 --> 00:08:59,440
Speaker 2: If he's standing right there saying I'm going to run

203
00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:02,520
Speaker 2: and I'm the rightful I'm the rightful king, you know,

204
00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:05,040
Speaker 2: and I you shall, you shall return me to the throne,

205
00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:07,760
Speaker 2: and all the other guys are standing around and saying, no,

206
00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:10,199
Speaker 2: he really is amazing, and he absolutely was cheated out

207
00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:14,560
Speaker 2: of this. But you know, vote DeSantis. That doesn't work, right,

208
00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:18,000
Speaker 2: And so nobody, even when Desants was rising on the polls,

209
00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:20,880
Speaker 2: he didn't have a way of squaring that circle. And

210
00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:23,439
Speaker 2: none of them have even tried to square that circle.

211
00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:27,280
Speaker 2: And I just don't see again as a selling proposition

212
00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:30,080
Speaker 2: to Republican voters. I don't see how that works for

213
00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:30,959
Speaker 2: anybody else.

214
00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:35,520
Speaker 1: My favorite thing about DeSantis is that he was Trump

215
00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:36,920
Speaker 1: without the humor.

216
00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:40,240
Speaker 2: Trump without the charisma.

217
00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:42,200
Speaker 3: Right, I mean, really, so it was like, we got

218
00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:42,720
Speaker 3: this guy.

219
00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:47,640
Speaker 1: He's not as famous, nor as charismatic, nor as successful,

220
00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:52,960
Speaker 1: but the National Review crowd, which has barely a like

221
00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:56,080
Speaker 1: to stand on in this Republican party, has decided he's

222
00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:56,960
Speaker 1: the heir apparent.

223
00:09:57,360 --> 00:10:00,480
Speaker 2: Well, I mean that's all about self interest, because the

224
00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:03,000
Speaker 2: anti anti Trump guys are terrified that they're going to

225
00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:05,520
Speaker 2: have to vote for Trump again, which they are, which

226
00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:08,640
Speaker 2: they are, and which they will do right. And I

227
00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:10,800
Speaker 2: can already tell you what's because this is my gift

228
00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:13,079
Speaker 2: is can I come to you from the future, right,

229
00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:15,319
Speaker 2: Just like in October twenty twenty, when I was running

230
00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:17,280
Speaker 2: around telling everybody that Trump was going to run again,

231
00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:19,360
Speaker 2: people told me it was Greaty, I'm coming from the future,

232
00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:21,959
Speaker 2: And I'm telling you that actually the capitulation to Trump

233
00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:24,200
Speaker 2: this time is going to be faster than it was

234
00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:28,160
Speaker 2: in twenty sixteen because this time they really think it's

235
00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:29,160
Speaker 2: the last time they'll.

236
00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:29,880
Speaker 3: Have to do it right.

237
00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:32,319
Speaker 2: You know, in twenty sixteen they thought, oh, what if,

238
00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:33,800
Speaker 2: you know, we really got to put up a fight

239
00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:36,240
Speaker 2: here because we could do better, and what if what

240
00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:39,680
Speaker 2: if he wins? And this time they'll be able to

241
00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:42,320
Speaker 2: tell themselves there's no way he'll ever run again. There's

242
00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:43,920
Speaker 2: no way he can win. We won't have to live.

243
00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:45,720
Speaker 2: Let's just suck it up and do it. And what

244
00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:49,120
Speaker 2: they will do when they win, these people, the anti Antis,

245
00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:52,079
Speaker 2: go and capitulate to Trump. It's going to be your

246
00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:53,120
Speaker 2: fault and my fault.

247
00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:55,400
Speaker 3: No, yeah, no question, we.

248
00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:58,360
Speaker 2: Made them to. They didn't want it, they were really

249
00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:00,760
Speaker 2: but you know, we we're the ones who kept saying

250
00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:03,480
Speaker 2: that Ron DeSantis was just as bad as Trump, and

251
00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:07,040
Speaker 2: we kept pushing all of our woke socialism. And if

252
00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:10,200
Speaker 2: we weren't out there putting kitty litterboxes in the every

253
00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:12,960
Speaker 2: public school bathroom all across America.

254
00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:16,640
Speaker 1: Right, they not exist in kitty letter my favorite. I

255
00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:19,000
Speaker 1: mean that know it's true. I mean the whole idea,

256
00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:21,880
Speaker 1: why did you make me hit you? Is this sort

257
00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:25,400
Speaker 1: of thinking man's Republican. You know, if Dems hadn't gotten

258
00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:29,079
Speaker 1: so left with that crazy socialist Joe Biden. I mean,

259
00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:32,400
Speaker 1: I remember it was on TV with someone and she said,

260
00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:35,800
Speaker 1: you know that socialist Joe Biden And I said, really,

261
00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:39,560
Speaker 1: you really think Joe Biden is a socialist And she said, well,

262
00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:43,319
Speaker 1: he's not a socialist, but he's controlled by socialists.

263
00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:45,800
Speaker 2: So why do the fucking socialists hate him so much?

264
00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:49,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, because he doesn't do any of the list.

265
00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:52,719
Speaker 2: I don't know. So, you know, whenever I get into these,

266
00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:54,720
Speaker 2: every once in a while, I'll get into a pissing

267
00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:56,520
Speaker 2: match with somebody on the stuff like this, and we're

268
00:11:56,840 --> 00:11:58,800
Speaker 2: and they always begin with that, right, he's a socialist,

269
00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:01,240
Speaker 2: he's controlled by sentence? Well, why do the socialists hate

270
00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:01,800
Speaker 2: him so much?

271
00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:01,960
Speaker 4: Like?

272
00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:04,760
Speaker 2: Why are the progs always threatening to run off sides

273
00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:06,439
Speaker 2: on them? Because he doesn't get them what they were?

274
00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:09,560
Speaker 2: And they say, well, well, Joe Biden's only not a

275
00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:14,800
Speaker 2: socialist because mansion and cinema made him not be a socialist. Yeah, okay,

276
00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:18,240
Speaker 2: well in that case, so he's not being a socialist,

277
00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:20,120
Speaker 2: but he's not being a socialist for a reason that

278
00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:23,440
Speaker 2: you don't find convincing. That's how Okay? Great, good to know,

279
00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:24,319
Speaker 2: thanks asshole.

280
00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:27,200
Speaker 3: The old thing is just amazing.

281
00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:31,000
Speaker 1: But I do think we find ourselves in a very

282
00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:34,079
Speaker 1: interesting situation here with this Republican.

283
00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:34,400
Speaker 3: Party we have.

284
00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:39,080
Speaker 1: You know, we're in this run up now to the primary.

285
00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:43,400
Speaker 1: Is the map for Republicans, the CENTEMAP is incredibly favorable

286
00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:47,600
Speaker 1: and yet you can see from Carrie Lake you'll Remember

287
00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:49,120
Speaker 1: she's the governor of Arizona.

288
00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:50,320
Speaker 3: She has big news.

289
00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:53,360
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, she's gonna run, right, I mean, I don't know.

290
00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:57,440
Speaker 1: Maybe the big news is that she is giving up

291
00:12:57,480 --> 00:12:58,239
Speaker 1: the governorship.

292
00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:02,839
Speaker 2: She's going to give up her fake governorship.

293
00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:04,560
Speaker 3: Yeah.

294
00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:08,360
Speaker 2: Here is a thing, which is a dirty secret that

295
00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:12,600
Speaker 2: the normy Republicans are loath to admit because they are

296
00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:15,080
Speaker 2: desperate to get away from Trump, and so they'll use

297
00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:17,719
Speaker 2: any excuse they can find. And one of their excuses is, well,

298
00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:20,720
Speaker 2: we gotta protect the rest of the party because Trump

299
00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:23,240
Speaker 2: is so terrible. And the fact of the matter is

300
00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:27,360
Speaker 2: that down ballot Republicans did much better than they should

301
00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:30,559
Speaker 2: have done by the numbers in twenty sixteen, much better

302
00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:32,960
Speaker 2: than they should have done by the numbers in twenty twenty.

303
00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:36,320
Speaker 2: Where did they suffer twenty eighteen and twenty twenty two.

304
00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:39,400
Speaker 2: And what that says to me is that when Trump

305
00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:42,200
Speaker 2: is on the ballot, you have all sorts of problems

306
00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:44,360
Speaker 2: at the top of the ticket because he's so repellent

307
00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:49,000
Speaker 2: to normy voters and independence, right, normally Republicans and independence,

308
00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:51,320
Speaker 2: and so a lot of them will run away from him.

309
00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:55,160
Speaker 2: But he does bring in what we will euphemistically call

310
00:13:55,400 --> 00:14:00,240
Speaker 2: non traditional voters who won't show up when he's not there, right,

311
00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:02,440
Speaker 2: And so the truth is that if you are a

312
00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:06,280
Speaker 2: Republican who wants to do as well as possible in

313
00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:09,360
Speaker 2: the Senate, you probably want Trump on the ticket in

314
00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:11,800
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four because he's going to bring out a

315
00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:14,320
Speaker 2: bunch of voters who will pull the letter for your

316
00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:17,719
Speaker 2: guy who won't be there otherwise. And the normies who

317
00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:19,880
Speaker 2: will be repelled by Trump are still going to vote

318
00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:21,160
Speaker 2: for your guy anyway.

319
00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:24,040
Speaker 1: Right, right, right, And that's the calculus that's killing democracy.

320
00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:27,040
Speaker 2: Yes, I mean, that's one part of the calculus that's

321
00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:27,480
Speaker 2: killing them.

322
00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:29,720
Speaker 3: I mean not to put too fine a point on it,

323
00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:30,920
Speaker 3: but I mean.

324
00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:36,280
Speaker 1: Basically, the Probalicans want to win. They know their guy sucks,

325
00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:39,280
Speaker 1: but they can't stand up for what's right because they'll lose.

326
00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:41,920
Speaker 2: That's part of it. I mean the electro college is

327
00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:44,960
Speaker 2: part of it too. Electric college has like suddenly become

328
00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:48,040
Speaker 2: a thing which is really hurting democracy. Our incentive structures

329
00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:52,360
Speaker 2: are so fucked that I the only consolation I have

330
00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:55,640
Speaker 2: is that it must have been this bad in all

331
00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:58,000
Speaker 2: sorts of other points in our history too, and we

332
00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:01,400
Speaker 2: muddled through somehow, so we'll probably muddle through somehow this time,

333
00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:03,840
Speaker 2: but I don't know, maybe not right the asteroid only

334
00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:04,560
Speaker 2: has to hit once.

335
00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:08,840
Speaker 1: I mean, that's the problem is I think so much

336
00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:11,800
Speaker 1: about you know, you have one party. You may not

337
00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:17,240
Speaker 1: like Democrats, but like, fundamentally Democrats stick to the rules law,

338
00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:21,120
Speaker 1: They're you know, running primaries, running people, They're not doing

339
00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:23,600
Speaker 1: crazy shit. And then you have this other party that

340
00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:26,960
Speaker 1: has just completely lost its mind, right, like banning books,

341
00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:32,080
Speaker 1: spanning drag queens. It's just a complete nightmare. And I

342
00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:36,080
Speaker 1: just wonder how long democracy is allowed to stay.

343
00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:39,720
Speaker 2: It's not great, it's not great. But whatever you want

344
00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:41,760
Speaker 2: to say about the Democratic Party is fine. But the

345
00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:45,680
Speaker 2: Democratic Party is also responsive to inputs in a way

346
00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:48,920
Speaker 2: the Republican Party currently is right, right, right, And the

347
00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:52,560
Speaker 2: reason for that is that Democrats have for the most part,

348
00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:57,600
Speaker 2: not not always in everywhere, but they have concrete policy

349
00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:00,360
Speaker 2: items which they would like to see enacted. In order

350
00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:03,400
Speaker 2: to enact those things, they need power. In order to

351
00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:06,200
Speaker 2: gain power, they need votes, right, So they they want

352
00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:11,440
Speaker 2: to expand healthcare coverage, they want to bring back more manufacturing.

353
00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:15,520
Speaker 3: You're a liberal, now, right, I mean it depends. Sorry,

354
00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:17,240
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm sorry.

355
00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:18,960
Speaker 1: To I don't want to dance on the grave of

356
00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,960
Speaker 1: your political beliefs. But I mean you came from the

357
00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:25,440
Speaker 1: world of the Weekly Standard. I feel like we've shifted

358
00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:26,040
Speaker 1: you over.

359
00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:28,960
Speaker 2: Now, Like yeah, well, I mean that's the problem is

360
00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:31,040
Speaker 2: I was always the commie over there because I bought

361
00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:34,000
Speaker 2: all of the Catholic social justice stuff, right, So I

362
00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:35,760
Speaker 2: was you know, I was always like, you know, hey,

363
00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:37,400
Speaker 2: we got to take care of the poor here, and.

364
00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:39,360
Speaker 3: They were like, shut up.

365
00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:44,280
Speaker 1: Lib Basically, you're like, I think starting you still run

366
00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:45,160
Speaker 1: the website.

367
00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:49,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, So, like, do democrats want to do things with government?

368
00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:51,160
Speaker 2: In order to do things with government, you need power.

369
00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:53,000
Speaker 2: If you can't get power through votes, then you've got

370
00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:55,800
Speaker 2: to change the things you're offering voters. Right, Democrats are

371
00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:58,360
Speaker 2: the Democratic Party is a fairly responsive organism. We have

372
00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:01,800
Speaker 2: that CBS poll out this Did you see that? It

373
00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:05,440
Speaker 2: was asking Republican voters, likely Republican voters, the qualities they

374
00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:09,320
Speaker 2: most wanted in their represidential candidate. The things they wanted

375
00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:10,520
Speaker 2: most were the one of four.

376
00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:15,359
Speaker 1: Things, violence, stupid to day, racism, no go on, no, no, no.

377
00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:19,840
Speaker 2: They wanted somebody who would be against woke stuff, somebody

378
00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:25,120
Speaker 2: who would veto any gun legislation, somebody who would make

379
00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:27,639
Speaker 2: liberals angry. And I forget what the fourth Poe was.

380
00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:30,320
Speaker 2: But the point is the things they wanted can all

381
00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:31,479
Speaker 2: be accomplished with Twitter.

382
00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:32,160
Speaker 5: Right.

383
00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:34,320
Speaker 2: You look at the list of things they were offered

384
00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:37,880
Speaker 2: to choose from, and it's like, you know, reforming entitlements,

385
00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:42,040
Speaker 2: strong foreign policy, things that require governing power interest them not.

386
00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:43,080
Speaker 3: At all, not at all.

387
00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:45,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so this makes the Republican Party as an

388
00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:49,840
Speaker 2: organism very unresponsive to inputs, right. They just the voters

389
00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:52,280
Speaker 2: want stuff that they do not need government power for.

390
00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:54,639
Speaker 2: They can have government power, great, because then you can

391
00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:57,560
Speaker 2: hurt some brown people more effectively, I guess. And they

392
00:17:57,680 --> 00:17:59,840
Speaker 2: like that, boy, they like that. But the rest of

393
00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:02,520
Speaker 2: the stuff on their little Maslow's pyramid, they just need

394
00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:05,560
Speaker 2: somebody who's willing to go on Twitter and say shit.

395
00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:09,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that is that This fundamental a what

396
00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:13,560
Speaker 1: we've seen, John last, thank you so much for joining us.

397
00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:14,280
Speaker 2: Thank you.

398
00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:21,400
Speaker 1: Aiden McLaughlin is the editor in chief of Media eight.

399
00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:23,840
Speaker 3: Welcome to Fast Politics.

400
00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:25,600
Speaker 6: Aiden, Thanks for having me on, Molly.

401
00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:29,359
Speaker 1: It is in very exciting time in the time of media.

402
00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:29,879
Speaker 2: It is.

403
00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:33,040
Speaker 6: Indeed, I think last month I've been saying, at least

404
00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:36,439
Speaker 6: on the cable news beat, might be the biggest month

405
00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:39,440
Speaker 6: in cable news news that I've ever seen.

406
00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:42,360
Speaker 1: Paint the picture for me of where we are right

407
00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:45,000
Speaker 1: now in the cable news world, and where do you

408
00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:45,640
Speaker 1: think we're going.

409
00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:49,760
Speaker 6: I think we just went through a pretty significant upheaval.

410
00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:53,040
Speaker 6: I don't want to overstate the consequences of what happened,

411
00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:55,800
Speaker 6: but like, let me just give the broad overview. Fox

412
00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:59,760
Speaker 6: News has this massive defamation case against it. In fact,

413
00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:02,639
Speaker 6: it has two massive defamation cases against it. It just

414
00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:07,080
Speaker 6: settled one of them with Dominion Voting Systems for seven

415
00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:09,880
Speaker 6: hundred and eighty seven million dollars, which is a historic

416
00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:12,359
Speaker 6: sum for a media outlet to pay out, and it

417
00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:14,840
Speaker 6: did that to avoid a trial, where from what we

418
00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:18,240
Speaker 6: can tell, Fox News was pretty scared that a lot

419
00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:21,359
Speaker 6: of more bad information was going to come out about

420
00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:24,680
Speaker 6: the network in the courtroom where I was there down

421
00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:28,199
Speaker 6: in Delaware, and there were hundreds of reporters present in

422
00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:30,080
Speaker 6: that courtroom, so like this was going to be a

423
00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:33,240
Speaker 6: huge story and Fox News like could not. It wasn't

424
00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:35,200
Speaker 6: something that was just going to blow over. If Tucker

425
00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:37,240
Speaker 6: Carlson was on that stand, it would have been covered

426
00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:38,919
Speaker 6: by every single media outlet in the country. So this

427
00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:41,560
Speaker 6: was like going to be a big problem for Fox

428
00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:46,760
Speaker 6: and they spent nearly a billion dollars to avoid that.

429
00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:49,200
Speaker 6: And so you have that on the one hand, which

430
00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:54,000
Speaker 6: is historic, and then a week later, I'm trying to

431
00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:56,880
Speaker 6: breathe a little bit after all this has happened, and

432
00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:01,200
Speaker 6: Fox newsfires the most watched cable news host in the country,

433
00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:04,840
Speaker 6: Tucker Carlson without reason. They didn't even give Tucker a reason.

434
00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:08,000
Speaker 6: And CNN fire is Don Lemon, one of the most

435
00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:11,359
Speaker 6: well known cable news hosts in the country, and that

436
00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:13,119
Speaker 6: reason was a little bit more clear. You know, he

437
00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:15,720
Speaker 6: had some problems on the show on the morning show.

438
00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:18,080
Speaker 6: He wasn't really as equipped for a morning show as

439
00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:19,840
Speaker 6: he was for like his primetime show, which he was

440
00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:22,800
Speaker 6: really good at. So it really marked a turn for

441
00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:26,679
Speaker 6: these two major cable news networks away from sort of

442
00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:32,520
Speaker 6: the more opinionated, brash punditry of the Trump era. And

443
00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:35,040
Speaker 6: I think, obviously there are huge differences between Tucker Carlson

444
00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:36,920
Speaker 6: and Don Lemon. I would never compare the.

445
00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:39,800
Speaker 3: Two, right I was gonna say, yeah.

446
00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:43,040
Speaker 6: But right now we're seeing a real shift in the

447
00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:46,080
Speaker 6: way these cable news networks which remained highly profitable or

448
00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:48,680
Speaker 6: approaching the news so they are profitable.

449
00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:49,920
Speaker 3: Talk to us about that.

450
00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:52,240
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think this is something that a lot of

451
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:55,600
Speaker 6: people miss about cable news, Like cable news as an

452
00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:59,680
Speaker 6: industry is, from all indications, heading towards something of a

453
00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:03,639
Speaker 6: clip when people really finally cut the final cords and

454
00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:06,600
Speaker 6: move more towards streaming, which is far less profitable. But

455
00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:10,919
Speaker 6: right now, cable news is an extremely profitable business. Fox

456
00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:15,760
Speaker 6: News every year makes more than a billion dollars profit CNN, which,

457
00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:18,080
Speaker 6: you know, everyone talks about how bad CNN's ratings are,

458
00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:21,080
Speaker 6: and let's be honest, they're not great. CNN still turns

459
00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:24,880
Speaker 6: a profit of more than half a billion dollars every year.

460
00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:26,439
Speaker 3: Because the cable carriage fees.

461
00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:29,760
Speaker 6: It's the cable carriage fees. Everyone thinks it's the advertisers.

462
00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:33,080
Speaker 6: It's not the advertisers. It's the fact that when CNN

463
00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:36,000
Speaker 6: starts to negotiate with like DirecTV or any other cable

464
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:39,840
Speaker 6: box company, they say, you need us on your package,

465
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:42,080
Speaker 6: otherwise people are going to opt for one of your competitors,

466
00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:45,639
Speaker 6: and so DirecTV will shell out an enormous amount of

467
00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:48,520
Speaker 6: money yearly to be able to say we have CNN.

468
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:52,240
Speaker 6: Those numbers have not been negotiated down that much yet.

469
00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:56,200
Speaker 6: So for now, MSNBC, CNN, Fox News turn an enormous

470
00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:58,920
Speaker 6: annual profit. And that's why for now, like cable news

471
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:00,840
Speaker 6: is still the power house that it is. They have

472
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:03,280
Speaker 6: enough money to be able to spend to have these massive,

473
00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:06,840
Speaker 6: you know, muscular newsrooms. But it's only telling how long

474
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:10,160
Speaker 6: that's going to last before these cable carriage companies look

475
00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:12,680
Speaker 6: up and say, wait, there's just not enough people watching

476
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:15,399
Speaker 6: CNN for us to pay this much to have them

477
00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:16,040
Speaker 6: on our service.

478
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:20,520
Speaker 1: And right now Fox is actually renegotiating it's cable carriage fees.

479
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:21,480
Speaker 3: Will you talk about that?

480
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:25,200
Speaker 6: Yeah, so Fox is renegotiating them. And I do think

481
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:29,040
Speaker 6: that one of the considerations in Fox settling the dominion case,

482
00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:32,520
Speaker 6: Fox also getting rid of Tucker Carlson was saying like, Okay,

483
00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:35,600
Speaker 6: we we want to be a little bit more palatable

484
00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:38,320
Speaker 6: to these cable companies and be a little bit more

485
00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:42,840
Speaker 6: palatable to advertisers going into these negotiations. And certainly like

486
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:45,320
Speaker 6: Tucker Carlson, by the end of his show, he suffered

487
00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:49,760
Speaker 6: ad boycott after ad boycott, and the only companies that

488
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:53,439
Speaker 6: were advertising on a show were my Pillow and some

489
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:57,000
Speaker 6: other you know, direct to consumer companies. His show was

490
00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:01,920
Speaker 6: not that profitable despite being the most watch watched show

491
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:04,920
Speaker 6: on Fox News because of the ads. So that was

492
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:08,879
Speaker 6: a real thorn in the side of Fox News's bottom line.

493
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:12,760
Speaker 6: And I think, you know, Rupert Murdoch and the board,

494
00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:16,720
Speaker 6: which the board includes Paul Ryan, who really really doesn't

495
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:19,439
Speaker 6: like Tucker Carlson, I think they made a strategic decision

496
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:21,320
Speaker 6: that like, this wasn't worth it anymore.

497
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:24,640
Speaker 3: But the damage is already done, right, oh.

498
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:26,840
Speaker 6: I mean, I think that's why everyone this week is

499
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:29,240
Speaker 6: looking at that text that The New York Times reported

500
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:32,600
Speaker 6: from Tucker Carlson, where he's you know, expresses this like

501
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:36,600
Speaker 6: racist murder fantasy and says, well, how in the world

502
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:40,040
Speaker 6: was that text different from anything he said on air

503
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:43,640
Speaker 6: for the last seven years. And that's a great point.

504
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:46,320
Speaker 6: But I will say that the Fox board, at least,

505
00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:49,000
Speaker 6: which again includes people that do not like Tucker Carlson

506
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:51,560
Speaker 6: and were vocal about it even when he worked at Fox,

507
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:55,040
Speaker 6: I think that they saw that as a particularly acute

508
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:57,879
Speaker 6: threat to the brand coming out during this trial. And

509
00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:00,600
Speaker 6: I think it was probably just a good excuse on

510
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:02,960
Speaker 6: top of the millions others that they had to fire

511
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 6: this guy to finally let him go.

512
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 1: So I want to ask you, there's a lot of

513
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 1: speculating that Tucker is going to go on his own

514
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:12,399
Speaker 1: start a media company. I read a piece in the

515
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:16,120
Speaker 1: Washington Post today. I'm sure you read this where he's

516
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 1: Tucker's trying to get the debates now the Republican debates,

517
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:23,919
Speaker 1: and well, I enjoy a good wish cast. Don't you

518
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:29,240
Speaker 1: think that Tucker has a contractual NDA that's going to

519
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:32,520
Speaker 1: prevent him from jumping back into the media circus because

520
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:34,800
Speaker 1: his contract runs till twenty twenty four.

521
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:37,399
Speaker 6: Right, So his contract runs till twenty twenty four. Fox

522
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:41,640
Speaker 6: News is going to desperately try to throw the remainder

523
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:45,080
Speaker 6: of his contract, the money at him, so that they

524
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:48,919
Speaker 6: can enforce the NDA. Yeah, and noncompete, right, so he

525
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:52,600
Speaker 6: doesn't go to any other network. Tucker Crossin doesn't need

526
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:55,199
Speaker 6: the money, right, That's the thing he was making, you know,

527
00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 6: twenty million dollars a year at Fox. And he's a

528
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:00,399
Speaker 6: very wealthy man to begin with.

529
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:02,440
Speaker 3: Yeh heartwarm mine and.

530
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:06,119
Speaker 6: Like you know, like every other cable news host, he

531
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 6: craves people listening to him more than anything.

532
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:13,359
Speaker 3: Right, And he doesn't want to be Megan Kelly.

533
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 4: No.

534
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:16,640
Speaker 6: And the idea that he's going to go away and

535
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 6: you know, live on his property in Maine or his

536
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:21,320
Speaker 6: place down in Florida and shut up is crazy. I

537
00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 6: think it's way more likely. I mean, first of all,

538
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:26,920
Speaker 6: he's got Brian Friedman, who's this pit Bull Powerhouse LA

539
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:31,119
Speaker 6: Entertainment lawyer, right, who's fighting this contract fight with Fox.

540
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 6: I suspect, just knowing Tucker Carlson and reading all the

541
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 6: reporting on this as of late, that he's going to

542
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:39,959
Speaker 6: basically say no to the money and do everything he

543
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:42,119
Speaker 6: can to get out of this contract early so that

544
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 6: he can actually you know, he's not going to sit

545
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:44,920
Speaker 6: out the twenty twenty four election.

546
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:45,440
Speaker 3: Right.

547
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 6: I think anyone that assumes he is is delusional.

548
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:52,119
Speaker 1: Right, I mean that's a dream, right, people who like

549
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,399
Speaker 1: democracy and don't want to see a failed Not to.

550
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:56,119
Speaker 6: Give too much of my own opinion on this, but

551
00:25:56,440 --> 00:26:02,400
Speaker 6: after that alleged assassination attempt on poos happened on the Kremlin,

552
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:04,640
Speaker 6: the first thing I thought was like, oh, thank god,

553
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:06,159
Speaker 6: Tucker Cross it's not on air tonight.

554
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:09,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, because he would be had been all over it.

555
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:11,920
Speaker 6: Airing a graphic of like Zelensky with like a suicide

556
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 6: bomb vest or something like. I can only imagine what

557
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:14,880
Speaker 6: his coverage would have been.

558
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:15,960
Speaker 2: So we're going to.

559
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 1: Really see now, and I think we're already seeing the

560
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 1: beginnings of it with the leaky leaks.

561
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 3: Leaks like remember Rolling Stone.

562
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 1: Rolling Stone runs a piece last week eight sources Arena

563
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 1: Braganti has an OPO file, she's not afraid to use it.

564
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 1: This week we start seeing little videos and text message.

565
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:41,520
Speaker 1: Is nothing that seems worse than what we've seen before,

566
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 1: but clearly this is a shot across the bow.

567
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:48,119
Speaker 6: So I'm of the camp of people and I've spoken

568
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 6: to a lot of reporters about this who know how

569
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 6: Fox News operates really well, and like I've covered them

570
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 6: for you know, five years now, I have a pretty

571
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:57,960
Speaker 6: good understanding of how they work. I'm in the camp

572
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:00,720
Speaker 6: that's a little skeptical that this is coming from Fox

573
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 6: News leadership right, Like the videos are clearly coming from

574
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 6: Fox right because somebody had to go their internal videos.

575
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:08,719
Speaker 6: They're behind the scenes videos, but they could have very

576
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 6: well come from any number of producers that were let go,

577
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 6: or the lawsuit or the lawsuit. Here's why I don't

578
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 6: think it's Fox News leadership or Arena. Bring on to

579
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 6: who's the head of communications for Fox. The first video

580
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:24,720
Speaker 6: is Tucker mocking Fox News's FOXX Nation Yeah, which is

581
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 6: their streaming platform that they're very eager to say is

582
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 6: a success. The idea that they'd leak this video of

583
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 6: Tucker saying that it's a crap website and that no

584
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 6: one should go on it and they should just go

585
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 6: on YouTube defies logic. Also, the videos are bad, They're

586
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 6: not worse than what we know, certainly not the idea

587
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 6: that Fox would leak these videos in an effort to

588
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:48,120
Speaker 6: prove what we already assume Tucker.

589
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,119
Speaker 3: Is like, right, doesn't make any sense.

590
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 6: No, it doesn't make sense to me. I don't know.

591
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 1: No, I agree, I think that's right. I think the

592
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 1: question is one is where are they being leaked from?

593
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:01,440
Speaker 1: And I think the choice are really like lower level

594
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:02,399
Speaker 1: people or.

595
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,880
Speaker 3: But I don't. But I also think, like, clearly there's more.

596
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:08,959
Speaker 6: Right, It's hard to tell what the situation is, at

597
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:12,119
Speaker 6: least with the video leaks, like Media Matters is leaking

598
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:14,639
Speaker 6: them out daily, sort of trickling them out. I think

599
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:16,440
Speaker 6: they've probably got a big batch of them and are

600
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 6: are spacing it out for you know, for reasons that

601
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 6: digital media websites.

602
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 3: Do that kind of thing, right and why not?

603
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 6: And why not? You know, you might as well get

604
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 6: the traffic people want to read about this stuff. The

605
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,639
Speaker 6: funny thing is here that it's is really hard to

606
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 6: figure out why these are being leaked, because it's hard

607
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 6: to tell, you know, if they were really, really bad,

608
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 6: I'd be like, Okay, Fox is leaking it to have everyone, say,

609
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 6: everyone validate their decision to let him go, you know,

610
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:44,719
Speaker 6: to have even his fans look at it and go, Okay,

611
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 6: this was really bad, maybe they were right to fire him.

612
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 6: But since they're not that bad, I've heard people theorize

613
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 6: that they're being released by Tucker's people as like a

614
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 6: way to say, look, this wasn't even that bad. This

615
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 6: is what they fired him for. Isn't this ridiculous?

616
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 3: That stinks to me, Like.

617
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:02,720
Speaker 6: I don't believe it for a second. Yeah, I'm saying

618
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 6: the nature of the videos makes it to me impossible

619
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 6: to conclude where they're coming from. I really just don't know.

620
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 6: I think hopefully we'll get some reporting about it, you know,

621
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 6: down the line, or Fox News fires someone. That's what happens.

622
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 6: I still remember when we published a story at Mediaite

623
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 6: about Laurence O'Donnell melting down behind the scenes at MSNBC

624
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 6: and NBC found the leaker. They did an investigation and

625
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 6: found that he was you you can find who accessed

626
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 6: the internal video files. Like we didn't out him to NBC.

627
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 6: NBC found him on his own and they ousted him.

628
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 6: So you know, Fox moves might try and do that

629
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 6: with this person. I'm sure if it's not coming from them,

630
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 6: I'm sure they're doing an internal investigation.

631
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 1: So let's talk about what else we're seeing in the

632
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 1: media right now. So there's that then, I mean, Don Lemon,

633
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 1: do you think Don Lemon is done? Do you think

634
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 1: he comes back? Do you think he goes to News Nation?

635
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:56,960
Speaker 1: I mean, where do you think that he lands.

636
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 6: I don't think there's any chance he's done. He is

637
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 6: an incredibly gifted broadcaster, despite the problems at CNN, He's

638
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:09,720
Speaker 6: also incredibly ambitious. He's also very young, right, he is

639
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 6: very young, and so I think he's certainly going to

640
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 6: come back. That the problem with all of these cable

641
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 6: news hosts when they get ousted is Don Lemon was

642
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 6: reportedly making seven million dollars at CNN. Finding someone to

643
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 6: pay that in this climate gets a little trickier. So

644
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 6: I think everyone has to take a pay cut. You know,

645
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 6: certainly Chris Cuomo had to take a pay cut going

646
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 6: from CNN to News Nation. I read that News Nation

647
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 6: is interested in Don Lemon. It seems like a fit

648
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 6: that would make sense for him. I've also you know,

649
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 6: I've also heard that he's interested in doing something a

650
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 6: little bit more talk showy, right, you know, he had

651
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:47,479
Speaker 6: that show for CNN Plus that was a little bit

652
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 6: more of a talk show than what he was doing

653
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 6: on CNN. I could picture him doing something in daytime.

654
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 6: He's got a lot of options. He's certainly got more

655
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 6: options in like mainstream media than Tucker Carlson. Tucker Carlson

656
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 6: doesn't have any options at you know, CBS, NBC.

657
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, can you imagine.

658
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 6: No, It's like it's just not going to happen. And

659
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 6: he got fired from all the cable news networks, so

660
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 6: he can't go back to any of those.

661
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 3: He has been fired from many cable news networks.

662
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 6: From many He had the hat trick for getting fired

663
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 6: from cable news networks. But then again, Don Lemon and

664
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 6: other hosts like him, they don't really have the personal

665
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 6: audience that someone like Tucker Carlson has. Like right wing

666
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:26,440
Speaker 6: media pundits have big personal audiences that will follow them

667
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 6: if they do an independent media venture. I think mainstream

668
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 6: media hosts like Don Lemon have a little more trouble

669
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 6: if they wanted to do something independent. So I think

670
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 6: both of them have their own lane that they could

671
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 6: return to, but they're different lanes.

672
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 3: That's really true.

673
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 1: We have this cable news drama, the behind the scenes

674
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 1: stuff that's happening right now. Are the debates right the

675
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 1: Republican primary debate, whatever that looks like. I mean, do

676
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 1: you think that I mean, Trump doesn't want a debate,

677
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 1: because why should he?

678
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 3: I mean, do you think we'll have debates?

679
00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 1: Do you see a world where this gets settled in

680
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 1: the traditional way or do you think they just let

681
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 1: Trump do whatever he wants?

682
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 6: You know, it's hard to tell. Well, first of all,

683
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 6: the RNC can't do anything about Trump, right, they have

684
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 6: no control over Trump. Trump controls the artist, right, Like,

685
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 6: watch Ron McDaniel on air any day of the week

686
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 6: on Fox and you'll see exactly why Trump runs the RNC.

687
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 6: The RNC doesn't want Trump, so if he doesn't want

688
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 6: to do a debate, he's not going to do a debate.

689
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 6: I would say the last time we had this issue,

690
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 6: right twenty sixteen, he skipped the Fox News debate because

691
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 6: he just didn't want to do it, and he eventually

692
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 6: came around and did a bunch of other debates, and

693
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 6: you know, the debates were part of the reason why

694
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 6: he won the nomination, because he demolished every other Republican candidate.

695
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 6: I think his calculus now is that he's just got

696
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 6: too much name recognition. Obviously his numbers are too good.

697
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 3: More to lose than gain, right, But you know.

698
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 6: The thing is, he's going to do this the CNN

699
00:32:56,480 --> 00:33:00,160
Speaker 6: town hall this month, and part of the pitch that

700
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 6: his campaign is making two reporters is that the reason

701
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 6: they're doing this town hall is because he wants to

702
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 6: show that, unlike DeSantis, he's not afraid to go and

703
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 6: do an interview with a network like CNN, whereas DeSantis,

704
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 6: you know, pretty much stays in a bubble of conservative media.

705
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 6: So that argument's going to get harder to make if

706
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 6: over the summer, DeSantis declares his candidacy and Trump says, well,

707
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 6: I'm not even going to debate you. Like DeSantis will

708
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 6: be able to use that as a battering ram to say, well,

709
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 6: Trump's scared to debate me, and he can't just waltz

710
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 6: into the nomination again. He lost to Joe Biden the

711
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 6: first time, So I think that'll be an interesting dynamic

712
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 6: when it comes when the summer starts heating up a

713
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:38,240
Speaker 6: little bit.

714
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 1: Elon owns Twitter. He has taken a hard right tact.

715
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 1: I think that's fair to say, you can't get rid

716
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 1: of your blue check. I have to change my name

717
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 1: practically every day to get rid of that fucker.

718
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 6: Were you one of the people that he just gave

719
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 6: it to.

720
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 1: He keeps giving it back just to fuck with me,

721
00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 1: and I keep taking it off.

722
00:33:58,120 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 3: But anyway, the point is he.

723
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 1: Basically he has just squandered all this money and is

724
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 1: trying to fix it, right, I mean, what is happening?

725
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 6: I mean his stewardship over Twitter is one of the

726
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 6: most confounding things I've ever witnessed anyone. He bought a

727
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:19,399
Speaker 6: company for forty four billion dollars and is completely misunderstands

728
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:23,440
Speaker 6: its entire value proposition. I remember when he first bought Twitter,

729
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 6: and he said, Okay, one of the first things I'm

730
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:27,240
Speaker 6: going to do is I'm going to make Twitter faster.

731
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:27,839
Speaker 4: Right.

732
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:30,760
Speaker 6: I don't know anyone who's ever complained that the problem

733
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 6: with Twitter is that, like it's not fast enough to load.

734
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 6: I mean, it's an Internet website. It's fine, loads fine,

735
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:40,279
Speaker 6: right exactly, And then thinking one that anyone would pay

736
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:45,320
Speaker 6: for a blue check, and then tormenting the top users

737
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:49,080
Speaker 6: of your social media platform and sending them into exile

738
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:50,799
Speaker 6: all the way until he started doing it to the

739
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:54,239
Speaker 6: Twitter files, guys like Matt Tayibi. I mean, it's just

740
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 6: it's baffling. It's kind of fun to watch. I actually

741
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 6: kind of enjoy being on Twitter these day because it's

742
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 6: such a shit show. His whole problem with Twitter from

743
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 6: the beginning that he said it's not profitable. He's certainly

744
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:06,440
Speaker 6: not making it more.

745
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:09,880
Speaker 3: Profitable, right, making it truth social.

746
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 6: Very very few people are going to pay for those

747
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:13,720
Speaker 6: blue checks. He's not going to turn a profit that way.

748
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 6: He's trying to charge businesses an enormous amount of.

749
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 3: Money thousand dollars a month.

750
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:21,799
Speaker 6: Right, But like media, he just gave us the goal check,

751
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:24,440
Speaker 6: so he's giving it to most places, and then he

752
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:27,399
Speaker 6: wants like basically the people that like him to fork

753
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:30,799
Speaker 6: over the money, right right, it's the business model is

754
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 6: like the craziest thing I've ever seen. So it's not

755
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 6: going to start making money. And I think it's only

756
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,400
Speaker 6: a matter of time before he loses enough money that

757
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:39,400
Speaker 6: he just gets rid of it. I don't know. I

758
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:41,360
Speaker 6: don't know what the fate of Twitter is. Someone smarter

759
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 6: than me could make that judgment, but it's not going

760
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:45,839
Speaker 6: to make money, and it's just going to torment him

761
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:46,839
Speaker 6: for the rest of his life.

762
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, no, no, I think that's completely right.

763
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 3: Aiden. I hope you will come back.

764
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 2: This was so much fun.

765
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 6: Thank you.

766
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 1: Hi. It's Molly and I am wildly excited that for

767
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:04,480
Speaker 1: the first time, Fast Politics, the show you're listening to right.

768
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:06,800
Speaker 3: Now, is going to have merch for sale.

769
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:13,400
Speaker 1: Over at shop dot fastpoliticspod dot com. You can now

770
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 1: buy shirts, hats, hoodies, and toe bags with our incredible designs.

771
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 1: We've heard your cries to spread the word about our

772
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 1: podcast and get a tow bag with my adorable Leo

773
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 1: the Rescue Puppy on it. And now you can grab

774
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 1: this merchandise only at shop dot Fastpoliticspod dot com. Thanks

775
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:47,759
Speaker 1: for your support. David Daily is a senior fellow at

776
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 1: Fair Vote and the author Rap Fucked Why your vote

777
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 1: doesn't count? Welcome to Fast Politics.

778
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 4: David, Thanks for having me, Mollie.

779
00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:02,880
Speaker 1: So let's talk about voting right. You have written two

780
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:06,279
Speaker 1: books on this subject. Explain to me sort of how

781
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 1: you've sort of come to this decision, and talk to

782
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:15,720
Speaker 1: me about unrigged, how Americans are battling back to save democracy.

783
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 4: You know, it was a decade ago, really that I

784
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:23,319
Speaker 4: started writing about this. I was editor in chief of

785
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:28,799
Speaker 4: Salon and running our politics team, and it seemed like

786
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 4: every single day what was coming out of Washington, d C.

787
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:36,840
Speaker 4: Was crazier and nuttier than the days before.

788
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:38,680
Speaker 3: Those salad days.

789
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:42,280
Speaker 4: I missed them, right, I mean, it was fifty votes

790
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 4: to repeal Obamacare, and we had just had our first child,

791
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 4: and I grew up in Connecticut, and so when Sandy

792
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:53,360
Speaker 4: Hook happened, I wasn't naive about the politics of gun control,

793
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:56,400
Speaker 4: but boy, I thought maybe a massacre of kids at

794
00:37:56,400 --> 00:38:00,120
Speaker 4: an elementary school could possibly move the needle on something.

795
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:03,359
Speaker 4: And of course it didn't. And I asked a really

796
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:07,200
Speaker 4: simple question, I said, why didn't the Democrats take back

797
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:10,759
Speaker 4: the House in twenty twelve, when Obama was reelected and

798
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:15,479
Speaker 4: Democrats grew their majority in the US Senate. And when

799
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:17,799
Speaker 4: I took a look at the numbers and said, oh,

800
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 4: Democrats won one point four million more votes nationally but

801
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:23,719
Speaker 4: still didn't take the Chamber. I mean, of course, we

802
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:27,360
Speaker 4: don't do anything by a popular vote in this country. Gosh,

803
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,000
Speaker 4: let alone elect the House that way. But it's really

804
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 4: rare for the popular vote in the House vote not

805
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 4: to line up. And then I looked at the delegations

806
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 4: and you see purple states like Ohio with a twelve

807
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:43,719
Speaker 4: to four delegation and a bluish purple state like Pennsylvania

808
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:47,800
Speaker 4: was thirteen five and North Carolina was ten to three.

809
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:51,920
Speaker 4: And it hit me that something had happened here. And

810
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:54,799
Speaker 4: I stumbled across a Republican strategy called red map, which

811
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:58,680
Speaker 4: was short for the Redistricting Majority Project, the goal of

812
00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 4: which was to flip state legislatures in all of these

813
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:08,400
Speaker 4: states in twenty ten Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, Florida,

814
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 4: and more, and to use redistricting and the wild computer,

815
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:20,320
Speaker 4: sophisticated map making software that had arrived on the scene

816
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 4: to draw lines that could not be beaten, and that

817
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 4: is in effect what they have done. We are living

818
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 4: with the consequences of Redmap a decade later, and it's

819
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:39,240
Speaker 4: only been reinforced by a US Supreme Court and state

820
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:47,360
Speaker 4: courts that have effectively greenlit or cleared the runway for

821
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:53,880
Speaker 4: whatever these state lawmakers want to do on voting rights.

822
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:57,440
Speaker 4: And it's created so many uncompetitive districts that the only

823
00:39:57,480 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 4: thing that matters are Republican primary So we end up

824
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 4: with and none of your people.

825
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 3: Slow down and walk me through this. You find a

826
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 3: state like purple state like Pennsylvania. Let's talk about Pennsylvania.

827
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:12,440
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania really is now at this point of blue state,

828
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 1: blue governor, blue Senate. Talk to us about how Republicans

829
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:22,319
Speaker 1: were able to sort of keep the advantage there.

830
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 4: It's really wild in Pennsylvania. As the twenty ten elections

831
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 4: approached in in Pennsylvania, Democrats had a one two one

832
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:37,240
Speaker 4: oh one advantage in the state House. Huge state House,

833
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:43,840
Speaker 4: really tiny majority. And what Republicans did is they identified

834
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:50,800
Speaker 4: a handful of state legislative seats, national Republican operatives in Washington,

835
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 4: designing national strategies and executing them in these otherwise sleepy

836
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:03,840
Speaker 4: local races. This is not long after the Citizens United

837
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:08,000
Speaker 4: decision comes down. So they're loaded up with all sorts

838
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:13,160
Speaker 4: of dark money and untraceable funds, and they come into

839
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:17,480
Speaker 4: the state legislative races in the last six to seven weeks,

840
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 4: having already focus grouped the issues that they were going

841
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:24,960
Speaker 4: to use to go negative on these incumbents, and they

842
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:29,719
Speaker 4: swamp them with hundreds of thousands of dollars of ads

843
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:33,600
Speaker 4: and mailers in the last days of the campaign, and

844
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 4: they flip the Pennsylvania State House. This is the same

845
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:40,839
Speaker 4: strategy that they pull off in Wisconsin and in North Carolina,

846
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:44,480
Speaker 4: in Ohio and Michigan, all states that had been under

847
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 4: Democratic control in state legislatures, and Democrats really have not

848
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:53,960
Speaker 4: been able to come within sniffing distance of state legislatures

849
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 4: in most of those states since what they do afterwards

850
00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 4: after they take control of these members, they redraw all

851
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:07,040
Speaker 4: the lines after the census, right, And what you see

852
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:11,920
Speaker 4: in places like Pennsylvania is even though Democrats win the

853
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:18,439
Speaker 4: statewide vote count by a couple hundred thousand votes, they

854
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:21,200
Speaker 4: cannot win more seats.

855
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:25,840
Speaker 3: So explain to me how Democrats could change those Oh boy.

856
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 4: Well, Democrats kind of fell asleep on the entire plan

857
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:31,880
Speaker 4: in the first place. Unfortunately, it's hard to fix it

858
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:35,560
Speaker 4: because it's really hard to defeat a gerrymander at the

859
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:39,680
Speaker 4: ballot box. So you can fix it any number of ways.

860
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:43,560
Speaker 4: You can try to get around the impact of redistricting

861
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 4: with an independent commission in which citizens draw these lines,

862
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:52,040
Speaker 4: you know, states like Michigan and California do that. You

863
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 4: can try to get around it by filing litigation, by

864
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:58,719
Speaker 4: suing under and citizens tried to do that in the

865
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:02,839
Speaker 4: federal courts for the last decade until John Roberts's voting

866
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:06,880
Speaker 4: rights wrecking crew in the Roucho Versus Common Cause decision

867
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:10,880
Speaker 4: out of North Carolina in twenty nineteen closed the federal courts.

868
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:14,879
Speaker 1: Right, So let's pause for a minute. If you had

869
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:18,239
Speaker 1: the presidency and the Senate, and you were pretending you

870
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:21,080
Speaker 1: were a Republican, how would you fix it. You could

871
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:24,279
Speaker 1: see how a Republican president might come in here and

872
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:27,279
Speaker 1: just do a bunch of executive orders. I mean, there

873
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:30,200
Speaker 1: certainly are non conventional ways to vex those.

874
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:30,680
Speaker 3: Right.

875
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:33,280
Speaker 4: If I was a Democratic president and I had both

876
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 4: houses of Congress from twenty twenty one to twenty twenty three.

877
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 4: I would certainly have tried to do something to fix this,

878
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 4: whether it was the John Lewis Voting Rights Act, whether

879
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:47,440
Speaker 4: it was for the People Act, whether it's working to

880
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 4: expand right size the Supreme Court and bring ethics reform

881
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:55,680
Speaker 4: to this body which is so unaccountable. You know, I

882
00:43:55,719 --> 00:44:00,120
Speaker 4: think that there are all kinds of more creative ways

883
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:02,239
Speaker 4: as well, if we want to talk about things like

884
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:06,560
Speaker 4: a more proportional system, something like the Fair Representation Act

885
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:10,480
Speaker 4: involving multi member districts and ranked choice voting for Congress

886
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:13,960
Speaker 4: that takes the sting out of these individual district lines

887
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 4: in the first place. There are lots of things to do.

888
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:21,799
Speaker 1: Rank choice voting really seems like a big win for democracy.

889
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:25,560
Speaker 4: Oh. I think it absolutely would be, And it's especially

890
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:30,280
Speaker 4: important because of gerrymandering. Once you have as many uncompetitive

891
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:33,120
Speaker 4: districts as we do right now, the only race that

892
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:37,399
Speaker 4: matters are these sort of low turnout summer primaries in

893
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 4: which the only folks that tend to turn out are

894
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:44,279
Speaker 4: the most extreme, and because it's the easiest way to

895
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:46,960
Speaker 4: a seat, you might have ten twelve people running in

896
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:50,440
Speaker 4: that seat, and the crazies only have to get twenty

897
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:53,280
Speaker 4: one twenty two percent of the vote sometimes to sneak

898
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 4: into office. This is how Matt Gates first lands in office.

899
00:44:57,160 --> 00:45:01,880
Speaker 4: He wins a gerrymandered seat in Florida with a percentage

900
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:03,759
Speaker 4: in the mid thirties.

901
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, but Florida's first district is a Ruby rad I mean, oh.

902
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:11,960
Speaker 4: It certainly is. I'm not suggesting that rad is going

903
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:14,400
Speaker 4: to win that seat. I'm just suggesting that if you

904
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:16,799
Speaker 4: had ranked choice voting and the winner of that had

905
00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:19,200
Speaker 4: to get to fifty percent instead of win at thirty

906
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:22,240
Speaker 4: three percent, you might have a different kind of Republican

907
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:23,520
Speaker 4: who's not an election.

908
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:27,080
Speaker 3: A denier, right, And that's what we saw in Alaska.

909
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:31,120
Speaker 4: That's exactly right. When you use ranked choice voting in

910
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:35,720
Speaker 4: these elections, you get a candidate who most people actually want.

911
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 4: And there are members of Congress right now who have

912
00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 4: won their primaries with about twenty percent of the vote,

913
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:44,359
Speaker 4: and then because the district is uncompetitive, they're able to

914
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:47,960
Speaker 4: just waltz right into a seat, even though maybe twenty

915
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:50,480
Speaker 4: five thousand people in a district of eight hundred thousand

916
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:54,680
Speaker 4: actually voted for them. And when you use ranked choice voting,

917
00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:59,040
Speaker 4: you have an instant runoff, and you always have a

918
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:03,560
Speaker 4: winner with the widest and the deepest majority support. You

919
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:05,560
Speaker 4: have to talk to everybody.

920
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:12,240
Speaker 1: So let's talk about what happened in Wisconsin. Democrats flipped

921
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:16,440
Speaker 1: the state court, the state Supreme Court. Explain what the

922
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:18,919
Speaker 1: consequences of that are and why it's good.

923
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:21,920
Speaker 4: This was the culmination really of what has been a

924
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:26,200
Speaker 4: twelve year plan in the state of Wisconsin to try

925
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 4: and eke back levers of power after the Republican jerrymander

926
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:36,160
Speaker 4: in twenty ten. Wisconsin may well be ground zero for

927
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 4: this kind of jerrymandering. It is a perhaps the ultimate

928
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:45,920
Speaker 4: fifty to fifty state, and Republicans have got sixty four

929
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:48,239
Speaker 4: of the ninety nine seats in the state Assembly and

930
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:51,400
Speaker 4: a supermajority of twenty two of the thirty three seats

931
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:55,919
Speaker 4: in the state Senate. They have gone on wild power

932
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:59,480
Speaker 4: grabs after the state elected a Democratic governor in twenty eighteen.

933
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:05,680
Speaker 4: The jerrymanders survived twenty eighteen, even when Democrats had a

934
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:09,720
Speaker 4: big night and voters replaced Scott Walker with Tony Evers.

935
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:13,359
Speaker 4: Re elected Jammy Baldwin gave Democrats all of the state

936
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:16,319
Speaker 4: wide offices two hundred three thousand more votes for the

937
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:21,080
Speaker 4: State Assembly, Republicans held on sixty three thirty six. Anyway,

938
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:24,000
Speaker 4: so Democrats have tried to find their way back in

939
00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:29,080
Speaker 4: Wisconsin by winning back seats on the State Supreme Court,

940
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:33,520
Speaker 4: and they have finally, after many years, enough seats came

941
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:36,319
Speaker 4: up that they were able to build a four to

942
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:41,520
Speaker 4: three progressive majority on the Court. So next I imagine

943
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:46,560
Speaker 4: you will see litigation that tries to use Wisconsin's state

944
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:52,120
Speaker 4: constitution to overturn these gerrymandered maps that have really rendered

945
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:56,239
Speaker 4: a representative a democracy a thing of the past in

946
00:47:56,280 --> 00:48:01,239
Speaker 4: the state of Wisconsin. I imagine what happens is that the

947
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:05,200
Speaker 4: State Supreme Court will in fact rule for three to

948
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:10,280
Speaker 4: overturn those maps, but then Republicans will sue to return

949
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:15,000
Speaker 4: this case to the US Supreme Court under the independent

950
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:16,840
Speaker 4: state legislative theory.

951
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:25,279
Speaker 3: And this Supreme Court is what Harlan Crowe pays for.

952
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:30,360
Speaker 4: Harlan guests, Harlan Crowe is getting what he paid for.

953
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:33,120
Speaker 4: I know, Charlie Brown in the Football is sort of

954
00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:36,960
Speaker 4: a cliched metaphor to use, but it's you almost have

955
00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 4: to just kind of shake your head, right. I mean,

956
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:43,200
Speaker 4: Democrats go through a decade plus of trying to strategize

957
00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:46,040
Speaker 4: and figure out a way back, and they finally win

958
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 4: the last election to make that happen. And Republicans just

959
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:53,439
Speaker 4: make up a theory. They're just like, yeah, but there's

960
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:55,960
Speaker 4: the independent state legislative theory, and we're going to take

961
00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:58,680
Speaker 4: it up to our blot and paid for federalist society

962
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:01,600
Speaker 4: court and we're going to wash that. So, you know, sorry,

963
00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:02,280
Speaker 4: nice try.

964
00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:05,000
Speaker 1: I mean, I do think the fundamental problem here is

965
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:07,600
Speaker 1: that Democrats played by a completely different set of rules

966
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:08,600
Speaker 1: and Republicans do.

967
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:12,560
Speaker 4: I think that's exactly right. And you see it right,

968
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:16,320
Speaker 4: and you see it in North Carolina where the state

969
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:20,719
Speaker 4: Supreme Court just about two weeks ago decided that they

970
00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:24,560
Speaker 4: would overturn the decision that the state Supreme Court made

971
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:29,280
Speaker 4: a year ago when they got rid of the old

972
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:33,759
Speaker 4: maps in North Carolina as on constitutional partis and gerrymanders.

973
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:37,680
Speaker 4: Republicans took over the state Supreme Court and then they said, well,

974
00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:39,759
Speaker 4: we're going to take another look at that decision, and

975
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:43,080
Speaker 4: sure enough, they overturned it. And a lot of the

976
00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:46,400
Speaker 4: coverage of this has been like, well, the Republican court

977
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:51,120
Speaker 4: overturned what a democratic court had done, right, but the

978
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:56,560
Speaker 4: democratic court didn't install a Democratic map. Right, the Democratic

979
00:49:56,680 --> 00:50:01,040
Speaker 4: Court led to a seven to seven congressional map in

980
00:50:01,040 --> 00:50:04,680
Speaker 4: the state of North Carolina, and Republicans still won majorities

981
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:08,720
Speaker 4: in the state legislature when they won more votes. Right,

982
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:11,319
Speaker 4: Republicans are going to lock in at eleven to three

983
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:14,440
Speaker 4: map in their favor and supermajorities in both houses of

984
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:17,279
Speaker 4: the state legislature. And they're already getting ready for this

985
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:22,000
Speaker 4: by advancing a twelve week abortion bill that would create

986
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:24,160
Speaker 4: all of these new bands on reproductive rights in a

987
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:28,200
Speaker 4: state where that's deeply, deeply unpopular. But they're going to

988
00:50:28,239 --> 00:50:32,800
Speaker 4: do it anyway because they've built this self perpetuating loop

989
00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:34,880
Speaker 4: that keeps them in power.

990
00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:38,080
Speaker 1: So your sense is that the only way for Democrats

991
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:40,520
Speaker 1: to solve any of this is just to get out

992
00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:46,440
Speaker 1: in enormous numbers and vote violently, if that makes any sense.

993
00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:50,040
Speaker 1: Not violently, obviously, but to vote an enormous quantity.

994
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:53,520
Speaker 4: I think so much of this begins and ends at

995
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:56,000
Speaker 4: the US Supreme Court, and that we have to be

996
00:50:56,120 --> 00:51:02,080
Speaker 4: thinking really seriously about how we fix and reform an

997
00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:08,360
Speaker 4: institution that is wildly unaccountable has become effectively a rubber

998
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:12,640
Speaker 4: stamp for conservative policies that can't be attained any other way.

999
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:17,560
Speaker 4: But of course this kind of big structural reform is

1000
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:22,680
Speaker 4: really difficult given the realities of the US Senate and

1001
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:27,120
Speaker 4: the filibuster and the demographics of the US Senate, which

1002
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:30,640
Speaker 4: only get worse for the Democratic Party as time goes

1003
00:51:30,719 --> 00:51:33,240
Speaker 4: on and population shifts.

1004
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:34,560
Speaker 3: Worse for the Republican Party.

1005
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:37,719
Speaker 4: No, I would say worse for the Democrats. I mean,

1006
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:41,759
Speaker 4: if you look at it right now, you have most

1007
00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:46,040
Speaker 4: of the population in the country in about fifteen states,

1008
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:50,799
Speaker 4: and pretty soon that is going to be you know,

1009
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:54,840
Speaker 4: seven or eight states. So these smaller, wider, more rural,

1010
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:56,480
Speaker 4: more conservative states.

1011
00:51:56,280 --> 00:51:58,319
Speaker 3: Are going to have more power, are going to.

1012
00:51:58,239 --> 00:52:02,120
Speaker 4: Have a lot more power. And certainly there are big

1013
00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:05,400
Speaker 4: states like Texas that you know, have got a couple

1014
00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:08,080
Speaker 4: of Republicans, and there are small states like Connecticut that

1015
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:10,640
Speaker 4: have a couple of Democrats. But if you look at

1016
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:15,200
Speaker 4: it overall, the balance of power in the last Congress,

1017
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:17,560
Speaker 4: when there were fifty Democrats and fifty Republicans in the

1018
00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:21,480
Speaker 4: US Senate, the fifty Democrats who represented about forty two

1019
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:23,280
Speaker 4: point five million more people.

1020
00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:26,320
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, David, This was great, my pleasure.

1021
00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:35,720
Speaker 4: Thank you anytime, no moment exactly, Jesse Cannon by jug Fast.

1022
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:38,040
Speaker 3: It just gets word war hilarious.

1023
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:41,279
Speaker 5: Each day when we find out these Clarence Thomas things,

1024
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:43,200
Speaker 5: I always have to think pro public is like just

1025
00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:45,920
Speaker 5: save with the worst for last, and I wonder what's next.

1026
00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:46,640
Speaker 3: Exactly.

1027
00:52:47,239 --> 00:52:50,719
Speaker 1: I think that the trip trip trip of Clarence Thomas

1028
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:57,040
Speaker 1: is undisclosed, now seemingly being disclosed financial disclosure. The most

1029
00:52:57,080 --> 00:53:05,040
Speaker 1: recent financial disclosure was that the grand nephew of Clarence

1030
00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:10,400
Speaker 1: Thomas had his private school paid for by everyone's favorite

1031
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:16,280
Speaker 1: conservative money bags, Harlan Crowe. When not collecting Nazi artifacts,

1032
00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:20,640
Speaker 1: when not taking Clarence Thomas on his jet, Harlan Crowe

1033
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:24,680
Speaker 1: is paying for Clarence Thomas's nephew's private school tuition.

1034
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:28,759
Speaker 5: Don't forget buying his mother's house and renovating it. And

1035
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:31,319
Speaker 5: you know, friend of of the show get Here had

1036
00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:33,080
Speaker 5: this really good thing. He dug up a quote where

1037
00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:35,880
Speaker 5: Clarence says about the supreme work, the job is not

1038
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:37,280
Speaker 5: worth doing for what they.

1039
00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:38,200
Speaker 3: Pay, right.

1040
00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:41,120
Speaker 6: Exactly.

1041
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:44,319
Speaker 2: Public service isn't for you, chief, exactly.

1042
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:48,560
Speaker 1: And so for that Harlan Crowe and his Nazi artifacts

1043
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:53,200
Speaker 1: and his many many many payments of various things, real

1044
00:53:53,239 --> 00:53:57,560
Speaker 1: and Sundry is our moment of fuck Gray. That's it

1045
00:53:57,680 --> 00:54:01,640
Speaker 1: for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday,

1046
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:04,640
Speaker 1: and Friday to hear the best minds in politics makes

1047
00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:07,960
Speaker 1: sense of all this chaos. If you enjoyed what you've heard,

1048
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:11,240
Speaker 1: please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going.

1049
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:13,320
Speaker 1: And again, thanks for listening.