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Speaker 1: Worrying. On today's episode, we're gonna be talking about the

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Speaker 1: finale of the Penguin for God's sake, We're godsake. Hey

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Speaker 1: go watch it? Hello, what Dave is? Jason Concepcion And

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Speaker 1: on Mersday Night and welcome back to x ray Vision

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Speaker 1: of the podcast where we dive deep and do your

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Speaker 1: favorite shows, movies, comics and pop culture. Comingy from iHeart Podcast,

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Speaker 1: where we'll bring you three episodes a week every Tuesday Thursday,

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Speaker 1: with an extra episode on Wednesday.

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Speaker 2: In today's episode, Oh it was always coming.

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Speaker 3: We were always gonna have to do it, and here

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Speaker 3: we are. Is it? Is it the best show of

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Speaker 3: the year?

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Speaker 4: Maybe it might be?

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Speaker 2: It might be we're gonna be We're gonna be talking

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Speaker 2: about the finale of the Penguin.

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Speaker 3: And get those tissues out. If you're a kryak, those

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Speaker 3: tissues out. If you're a furious.

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Speaker 2: TV watcher, bring a pillow to punch, because you're gonna

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Speaker 2: be very stressed while watching this fantastic episode of TV.

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Speaker 2: And Oh Baby, Oh Baby, thanks to our time with

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Speaker 2: Renzi Phillies. Recently, we have a couple of closing questions

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Speaker 2: with the fantastic young actor who brings vic Aguilat to life.

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Speaker 1: That's right, let's get into it. Here we go. The

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Speaker 1: Penguin season one finale. We open as doctor Rush plies

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Speaker 1: Francis's mind, traveling back through her memories, getting her to

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Speaker 1: recount the days right in the wake of her boys

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Speaker 1: Jack and Benny's death. Rex comes to visit. He's worried

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Speaker 1: about Francis. He's saying, you know, you're taking it really hard,

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Speaker 1: and I wish you would let me help you, and

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Speaker 1: I wish you would let me pay for the funeral.

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Speaker 1: Francis is a want of funeral, just want people crying

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Speaker 1: about her, she says. Rex tells Francis that Oz has

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Speaker 1: been coming to see and he says that Francis apparently,

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Speaker 1: Oz is complaining that Frances won't talk to him. She's

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Speaker 1: locked in her room. He's worried about her. Francis fed

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Speaker 1: up with Oz. She fed up with him. He's too needy,

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Speaker 1: she says, thick of it. He's sick of it, and

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Speaker 1: she very clearly suspects that he murdered his brothers. She

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Speaker 1: shows Rex the flashlight that she found in his jacket,

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Speaker 1: and so she knows that he had to be with

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Speaker 1: them because they had flashlights too, down there playing flashtag,

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Speaker 1: and he didn't say anything about being with them. He

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Speaker 1: wanted me all to himself. She tells Rex he's the devil. Well,

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Speaker 1: Rex says.

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Speaker 3: Always the self. Mining with Rex, I gotta say.

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Speaker 1: He's got a generous offer for Francis. He says, you

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Speaker 1: know a guy, a born killer like Oz, perfect from

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Speaker 1: my line of work. Yeah, guy like that. I could

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Speaker 1: take him under my wing. Guy like that who needs

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Speaker 1: a father figure or with a hole in his life.

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Speaker 1: Guess what, I can mold him perfect piece of unmolded clay.

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Speaker 2: And he's deeply loyal to you, so you can help

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Speaker 2: telling him what you need.

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Speaker 3: And she's like no, yeah, she doesn't want that.

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Speaker 1: So the Recus is like, okay, what about I kill him?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he's like because he's trying to be really chill,

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Speaker 2: and he's like, yeah, you know, here's the positives. Your

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Speaker 2: son's a psycho, he killed your other two sons.

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Speaker 1: I need guys like I need guys like that.

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Speaker 3: Let's we can make him into a man.

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Speaker 2: He can do great things. And then he's like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: I'll just kill him. I'll kill this eight year old.

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Speaker 3: Why don't you let him go?

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Speaker 1: As he says, and France is like, you're talking. What

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Speaker 1: what I think you're talking about? And he's the and

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Speaker 1: Rex gives her a little wink and friends.

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Speaker 3: Like okay, yeah, She's like you help me with that.

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Speaker 4: Great, that's right.

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Speaker 1: That is why. Francis takes Oz out on the town

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Speaker 1: to memroa'se all dressed up looking their evening best, and

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Speaker 1: Oz is having a great time just he and my,

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Speaker 1: ah my, this is so great. You know, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: take care of you. It's gonna be so great now,

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Speaker 1: just me and you. Oh look Rex is here mouse

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Speaker 1: holy cow, well that's exciting. Wow, Oh my god, there's

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Speaker 1: gigs is in the club. This is everything we dreamed them.

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Speaker 1: And then Francis is looking over Oza's shoulder and Rex

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Speaker 1: catches her eye and is like you want me to

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Speaker 1: kill Now We're like what are we doing? And France

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Speaker 1: is like, yeah, Rex is gonna drive you homely the

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Speaker 1: sweeth hat and I was like, oh wow. Meanwhile, doctor

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Speaker 1: Russ and Sophia, you know, you could hear their voices

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Speaker 1: through the memory, through the dream and they're like, holy shit,

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Speaker 1: this is good.

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Speaker 3: Like oh my god, wow.

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Speaker 1: Y and Duncan Rush has to be like Francis settled down,

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Speaker 1: stay in the memory, let's keep going with So when

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Speaker 1: they go back in and Oz's like, Ma, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: take care of you. You know, when it was Jack

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Speaker 1: and Penny and me, it was a lot of mouse

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Speaker 1: to feed mob. But now it's just me and you

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Speaker 1: don't need to worry about any that stuff. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: do everything for you. I'm gonna take care of you

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Speaker 1: like nobody else could, because I know you might. I've

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Speaker 1: been watching you. I've been watching you a whole life.

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Speaker 1: I know when you're said and you're pretending to be happy.

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Speaker 1: I know all that stuff about your ma. And one

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Speaker 1: of these days, after lots of hard walk, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: get us out of that East Side or we're gonna

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Speaker 1: move up, move it on up to a dux apartment

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Speaker 1: in the sky, Ma, I promise you, I'm Ma.

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Speaker 3: And she's definitely like swayed. That's where you realize.

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Speaker 1: You're thinking about like, well, you know what, she killed

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Speaker 1: my son's.

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Speaker 3: But she's like, maybe Rex was right, Maybe I can

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Speaker 3: use this. Do I want to live in a penhouse?

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Speaker 1: That's right? Do I want to free agent this guy?

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Speaker 1: Off to rerexit do I want to have it to myself.

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Speaker 4: Do it?

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Speaker 1: And elsewhere. Vic has rallied these street gangs. They're racing

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Speaker 1: to Crown Point. The devastation is terrible, smoke rising and

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Speaker 1: a huge column up to the sky, and Vick is like,

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Speaker 1: we gotta go, let's go, and they're like, no, look

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Speaker 1: at this, Oz is probably dead. Vic's like, are you kidding?

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Speaker 1: You're gonna fucking chicken out now? After the jigants have

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Speaker 1: done this to this is my neighborhood. Look at this,

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Speaker 1: Look what they've done, and now you just get turned

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Speaker 1: tail and run away. Link punches Vic in the stomach,

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Speaker 1: but in a weird friendly way that's like.

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Speaker 3: Hey, yeah, yeah, he's doing it to be like warning,

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Speaker 3: getting in his ear and be like, hey, chill out.

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Speaker 1: Chill out. You need to be careful right now with

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Speaker 1: what you're doing. We all need to be careful. One

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Speaker 1: of the survivors of the Bliss operation tells Vic what happened,

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Speaker 1: and he Vix like, whear's oz. Oz is in the

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Speaker 1: hands of Russian Sophia at Monroe's mom is there, and

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Speaker 1: Sophia is lapping it up.

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Speaker 3: Yes, she is like a loving life.

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Speaker 2: She's got the red shoes on, She's got the red

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Speaker 2: scarff tight around her neck.

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Speaker 3: She's looking fine for this strange psychological torture moment.

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Speaker 1: She is really playing up the hangman vibe with that

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Speaker 1: scarf tight around the neck, letting people think that she

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Speaker 1: is that person. And she has truly morphed to a

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Speaker 1: terrifying figure. What she wants now is to cause as

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Speaker 1: much pain, emotional pain to Oz possible. So she wants

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Speaker 1: Oz to admit in front of his mom that he

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Speaker 1: did it, he killed his brothers, and she wants Oz

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Speaker 1: to hear that Francis always knew called out a hit

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Speaker 1: on him. I had to put a hit out on

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Speaker 1: her son through ret.

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Speaker 2: I have to say, I foresaw a lot of different

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Speaker 2: ways that this kind of showdown would go.

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Speaker 3: And I did not see this. And I think it

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Speaker 3: is like neither such an.

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Speaker 2: Unbelievably brutal and well written play because the anxiety that

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Speaker 2: Oz has had.

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Speaker 3: His whole life.

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Speaker 2: Does she know what did I do and the things

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Speaker 2: that he had to do to get that?

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Speaker 3: It like comes out and the performances are so good.

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Speaker 2: But honestly, I gotta admit, man, I understand now how

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Speaker 2: men watch Breaking Bad and they're.

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Speaker 3: Like, oh, I love cool.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Sofia Gigante is my wall why I'm watching her and

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Speaker 2: I'm like.

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Speaker 3: Oh, you do it, babe.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, you're doing a great job, Like this is

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Speaker 2: a fantastic plot.

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Speaker 1: You know what I was doing. I was like, Sophia,

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Speaker 1: put a fucking bullet in this. Forget it, truly, just

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Speaker 1: forget it. Just kill them both.

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Speaker 3: Now what are you doing, babe, Ellie babe?

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Speaker 2: Yes?

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Speaker 3: Please?

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Speaker 1: Anyway, Sylvia is like, listen, Oz, you're gonna admit what

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Speaker 1: you did. And if you're not gonna do it, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna take this beautiful cigar end cutter and I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: use it to cut off your mom's finger like you.

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Speaker 3: Did to my brother. By the way, Alberta, that's right.

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Speaker 1: Francis admits that she knows about Jack and Benny is

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Speaker 1: always suspected and always know. She always knew Oz. And

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Speaker 1: I think this says you just you put your finger

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Speaker 1: on it. The psychological play here in writing, how fleshed

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Speaker 1: out it is. It's perfect to me that Oz, who

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Speaker 1: has always admitted everything, when you push him, hey you

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Speaker 1: double cross? Yeah, I did it because a guy like

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Speaker 1: Waving from the East Side. I did what I had

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Speaker 1: to do. I don't feel bad about I did it

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Speaker 1: for you.

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Speaker 4: I did it for you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I double see. He's whenever pressed, he's always admitted this.

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Speaker 1: He won't. He is so deeply ashamed of it, but

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Speaker 1: not only ashamed of it, scared. And I think even

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Speaker 1: more than scared, I think there's a part of him

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Speaker 1: that uses this populist Oh, guys like us, the liver,

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Speaker 1: you know, we gotta stick together. He uses that to

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Speaker 1: get ahead. But if people knew how this would turn

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Speaker 1: on anybody, Yeah, he'd kill anybody, kill his own brothers.

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Speaker 1: If they knew that about him, he'd never be able

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Speaker 1: to get anywhere. And he needs to protect that piece

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Speaker 1: of himself, so he won't admit it exactly.

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Speaker 2: And this is the episode where we see that that's

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Speaker 2: true in every part of his life, and there's nothing

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Speaker 2: that sacred to him. They are literally cut into Francis's finger,

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Speaker 2: and he will not tell them.

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Speaker 3: Rogie's gaslighting her.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely gaslighter. He' said, yo, man, if she dementia talking,

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Speaker 1: what are you talking about?

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Speaker 5: I do that.

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Speaker 1: He is perfectly willing to let that finger cup. Sophia's

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Speaker 1: amazed that this is who this guy.

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Speaker 3: Is She's like, oh my god, he will truly not.

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Speaker 2: He pretends that she is this weakness to him or

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Speaker 2: he loves her and blah blah blah, but in the moment,

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Speaker 2: he's willing to just let her lose the finger.

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Speaker 3: Sophia is like she is.

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Speaker 2: Watching the most entertaining game of tennis she's ever seen,

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Speaker 2: the way her head is going back and forth between them,

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Speaker 2: like what the fuck is going on?

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Speaker 1: She's also, I think a little let down because she

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Speaker 1: wanted Francis to be this dagger in his heart, the

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Speaker 1: only thing that he really really like purely loves like

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Speaker 1: Alberto was for her, Yeah, in a pure way, and

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Speaker 1: she realizes in this moment that actually there's nothing like

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Speaker 1: that for us, about nothing in his life's Francis rises

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Speaker 1: to this emotional pitch. She's so upset about the death

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Speaker 1: of her boys. She's crying. Sophia's watching very closely to

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Speaker 1: see if these tears and this emotion is gonna affect

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Speaker 1: Oz in any way. Francis calls Oz a waste the disappointment.

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Speaker 3: She says, I should I.

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Speaker 1: Let Rex kill you? And Oz is like wait what?

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Speaker 1: Then she breaks like a bottle of a bottle and

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Speaker 1: stabs Oz in the fucking guts and is moving it around,

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Speaker 1: and then she calls him that devil. And then suddenly

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Speaker 1: her illness kicks back in and she sees Oz as

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Speaker 1: he was as a young boy, and she's taken aback.

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Speaker 1: And then she looks and she sees Jack and Benny

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Speaker 1: fresh from the water and water dripping off them in

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Speaker 1: the room with her, and she's like, oh my god.

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Speaker 1: And everyone everyone is like mesmerized by this moment. And

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Speaker 1: they're so mesmerized that what I tell you, Sophia, what

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Speaker 1: I tell you. You gave him the opportunity, And what's

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Speaker 1: Oz gonna do now? He fucaes you.

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Speaker 3: Should have shot?

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Speaker 2: Are you kidding me? Also, I do feel like, look,

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Speaker 2: I'm not a pot armor guy, because I don't really

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Speaker 2: believe that's how storytelling works, but I do I feel

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Speaker 2: like there is something about Sophia. She knows she's never

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Speaker 2: getting shot. She's just like, you know what, He's gonna

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Speaker 2: go for the boys. He's gonna go for the crew

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Speaker 2: because everyone else is getting shot, and she's like hiding,

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Speaker 2: she's trying to run away. I also think they do

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Speaker 2: some great moments here that we hadn't really seen before,

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Speaker 2: and obviously one of them will become like one of

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Speaker 2: the worst moments of TV for me of the year,

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Speaker 2: like just horrible wise, but you know, well made. But

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Speaker 2: they start to show that Oz is actually like exceptionally

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Speaker 2: strong ey and I think they're kind of setting him

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Speaker 2: up to be more of this kind of reality of

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Speaker 2: what a batman villain would have to be, because he

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Speaker 2: breaks out of the duct taped chair by just smashing

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Speaker 2: the chair and not like tipping himself backwards like he's

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Speaker 2: a kidnapped kid in a slasher movie. He just brute

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Speaker 2: strengths his arms off the chair and runs away, like, Sophia,

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Speaker 2: you should have killed them. This is ridiculous. You made

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Speaker 2: a big mistake, babe.

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Speaker 4: But you know what.

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Speaker 3: He takes his mom to the hospital, so obviously.

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Speaker 1: He does care about her a little bit at least,

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Speaker 1: and he lays up there, he steals the phone, he

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Speaker 1: calls Vic. Vic comes over, Oz is patching himself up.

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Speaker 1: Oz's kind of feeling down on the dumps about everything

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Speaker 1: that's happened. He lies also about who Stadam. Says, Sophia

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Speaker 1: did it. Vic is like, listen, get your fucking head together, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I couldn't get the gangs to us, and I'm sorry

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Speaker 1: about that, but like you need to fucking get up

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Speaker 1: and be Oz and be hungry and fucking like let's

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Speaker 1: start making move. Yeah, be you, yeah, be you. And

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Speaker 1: Oz and Vic have shared this like warm moment about

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Speaker 1: it where Oz is like, you've been practicing that, huh?

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Speaker 1: Like good job. Later at Falcone, Manor Sophia is talking

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Speaker 1: to all the gangs, all the assembled street gangs, and

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Speaker 1: she tells them, hey, you like this house, you like

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Speaker 1: the Falcone territories and operations. Whoever brings me Oz can

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Speaker 1: have it all. I'm gonna give it up, I think,

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Speaker 1: I think Smartly says, this is a fucking this.

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Speaker 3: Is bullshit, right, Yeah, why would you do?

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Speaker 1: Why would you do? You're not gonna walk away from

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Speaker 1: this stuff. Give me a break. You're gonna walk away

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Speaker 1: from hundreds of millions of dollars of profit and your

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Speaker 1: various criminal enterprises at just like that. I don't buy it,

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Speaker 1: but the leaders of the gangs, Joao and the rest

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Speaker 1: of them certainly buy it.

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Speaker 2: Greedy that lazy, Yeah, sounds too good to be true,

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Speaker 2: but they don't care.

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Speaker 1: They don't care. Oz goes to city Hall. He's like

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Speaker 1: how do I look. He's wearing an overcoat and a chambray.

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Speaker 2: Shirt, starting to get a bit more of like a

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Speaker 2: classic penguin look you looks, which we'll see him evolve over.

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Speaker 1: The He looks he's got like a j crew look on.

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Speaker 1: But it's certainly not like high politics, no great interpolitan city.

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Speaker 3: It's still him trying to fit into this world. He's

295
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Speaker 3: never gonna fit.

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Speaker 1: Into the upper crust, right, so he Waylay's councilman Hayden,

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Speaker 1: who finds him sitting in the mayor's chair city Hall,

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Speaker 1: and Oz offers Hayden a beautiful deal, all tied up

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Speaker 1: man with a beautiful silver boat. He is a beautiful

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Speaker 1: little package.

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Speaker 2: This is a fantastic example of one how great the

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Speaker 2: writing is, but also how they've built us as a character,

303
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Speaker 2: where we've had these discussions of does he see ten

304
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Speaker 2: steps ahead? Or is he always just trying to deal

305
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Speaker 2: with the reckless chaos of Gotham and he's good at

306
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Speaker 2: navigating it.

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Speaker 3: When he presented this.

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Speaker 2: Plan, I felt my jaw drop a little and be like, oh,

309
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Speaker 2: I see, like he's always his brain is just full

310
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Speaker 2: of every different way something could go wrong, and how

311
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Speaker 2: he will be able to kind of play it.

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Speaker 3: It's so audacious.

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Speaker 2: And also we start getting in this scene the hints

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Speaker 2: of how this will connect to the Batman. I agree,

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Speaker 2: because Hayden brings up Bella Royale, the mayoral candidate, he

316
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Speaker 2: brings up the anti corruption battle, and by the end

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Speaker 2: of this episode you're starting to get some of those

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Speaker 2: deep connective moments I think some fans are waiting for,

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Speaker 2: and some fans probably don't care about at all because

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Speaker 2: the show's so good.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So Oz says, Okay, you've just had this devastating

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Speaker 1: attack that has left Crown Point in ruins. The voters

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Speaker 1: and the citizens are going to be terrified. They're very

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Speaker 1: upset that this is what this continuing drug gang war

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Speaker 1: has led to. And I'm going to give you the

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Speaker 1: solution to that. I'm going to tie it all up

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Speaker 1: for you. So Fio Falcone is the person that's behind it.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna find her g wagon down there. She had

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Speaker 1: it laden with C four. She blew it up because

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Speaker 1: she was attacking the drug operation of one Salvator Moroni.

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Speaker 1: And this is a continuation of the Falcone Maroni wow

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Speaker 1: feud that has torn this city apart. If you send

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Speaker 1: your cops down there to investigate. It's gonna be just

334
00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:02,840
Speaker 1: like I said, it's gonna be perfect for you. You're

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Speaker 1: gonna deliver the end to this long running gang war

336
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Speaker 1: and you're gonna be even tells them about able to

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Speaker 1: climb the ladder all the way to the top. Yeah,

338
00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:13,520
Speaker 1: the Bliss operation, all of that. You're gonna find it

339
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Speaker 1: all down there, and it's all green for you, and

340
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Speaker 1: you're gonna tie it all up. You're gonna put it

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Speaker 1: end to it. You're gonna be a hero in this city.

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Speaker 1: The entire metropolis is gonna be grateful to you, and

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00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:25,000
Speaker 1: you're gonna be able to write your own ticket. What

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Speaker 1: do you want to be? Governor, President, senator. It's all

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Speaker 1: for you. All I want in return, On says, is

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Speaker 1: access to this, access to city Hall, access to Bella

347
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Speaker 1: Reale and all the real power players in the city.

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Speaker 1: Hayden's like, well, you mentioned the mayor. She's doing this

349
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Speaker 1: anti corruption campaign. They're gonna investigate you. You can't have

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Speaker 1: any dirt on you, you can't have any ties to

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Speaker 1: the streets, he says, don't worry about that.

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Speaker 3: End gotta be clean.

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Speaker 1: You gotta be clean. You can't dress like this, like

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Speaker 1: a I think he looks nice today. He's like in

355
00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:57,639
Speaker 1: gap J crew type that looks like a gangs right,

356
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Speaker 1: And I was just like, don't you worry about it.

357
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Speaker 1: I'm gonna get a cleaned up for it counsel my

358
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Speaker 1: hand and it look beautiful.

359
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Speaker 3: Oh, you have no idea what a normal persson is.

360
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Speaker 1: Right when Oz comes out, Link is there and Link

361
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Speaker 1: is like, we have something to do. Sophia packs up

362
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Speaker 1: all her stuff at falcty manner and then she sets

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Speaker 1: the manner on fire.

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Speaker 2: Iconic moment, I think as well, with a gorgeous cover

365
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Speaker 2: of lead belly.

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Speaker 3: I was feeling this.

367
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Speaker 2: She puts the three cigarettes in her mouth, lights them

368
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Speaker 2: all sets, all had that stuff on fire. She was

369
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Speaker 2: never gonna let anyone take the house or the business.

370
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Speaker 2: She wants to burn it all down because she has

371
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Speaker 2: no respect for it.

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Speaker 1: She gets a phone call from Joao, who says, I

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Speaker 1: got Oz. She says, okay, well, we can't meet in

374
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Speaker 1: my house because it's a little under construction right now,

375
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Speaker 1: so let's go to the private airport that all the

376
00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:48,919
Speaker 1: rich people and the rich gangsters used. She's very, very excited.

377
00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:52,680
Speaker 1: This is the moment of her victory, but just as

378
00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:56,120
Speaker 1: they're presenting her with Oz, Oz gives her this look

379
00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:01,359
Speaker 1: too confident, and she realizes it's a double cross. Link

380
00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:05,880
Speaker 1: kills Jao, he and Vic and the goons kill her goons,

381
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Speaker 1: and now Sophia is Oz's prisoner.

382
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Speaker 2: And I want to say, this is a really we

383
00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:14,080
Speaker 2: were right moment because we had talked about how when

384
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Speaker 2: Jao and the other gangs met and Oz was giving

385
00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:21,880
Speaker 2: his big speech, the beer speech, maybe he was really

386
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:24,560
Speaker 2: delivering it to the deputies, and I don't.

387
00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:25,920
Speaker 3: Know if he was being conscious with that.

388
00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:28,080
Speaker 1: I don't think he was, but I think Vic saw

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Speaker 1: that opportunity.

390
00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:31,359
Speaker 2: But I think that the deputies heard something in it.

391
00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:35,679
Speaker 2: And then Vic and Link were the ones who really

392
00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:38,080
Speaker 2: made it so that was possible. And we get this

393
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Speaker 2: great montage of all the deputies just killing off every

394
00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:46,240
Speaker 2: head of every gang family in Gotham, So that again

395
00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:48,879
Speaker 2: establishes a space where Oz is now going to be

396
00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:52,520
Speaker 2: able to be potentially the biggest and baddest.

397
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Speaker 1: So while the heads of the gangs are getting killed,

398
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Speaker 1: Oz is driving Sophia somewhere and he makes this big

399
00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:02,960
Speaker 1: speech basically like a different version of is a guy

400
00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:05,080
Speaker 1: like me from the east Side type of speech. You know,

401
00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:07,560
Speaker 1: you don't understand where I come from the streets. God

402
00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:11,160
Speaker 1: like us, you'll overlook us. Sophia now sees through this shit.

403
00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:15,200
Speaker 1: She's like, you don't, yes, whatever, Yeah, fine, I'm a

404
00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:17,639
Speaker 1: rich girl. It's true. I grew up with silk sheets

405
00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:19,119
Speaker 1: and the whole thing in a mansion. But this is

406
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:22,480
Speaker 1: all propaganda. You're not like one of these hard working

407
00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:25,320
Speaker 1: blue collar guys, you know, at the people, So this

408
00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:29,080
Speaker 1: is bullshit. They arrive at a spot overlooking the Williamsburg

409
00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:32,240
Speaker 1: Bridge in Brooklyn, but it's another bridge in Gotham, and

410
00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:34,760
Speaker 1: he has her turn around, and Sofia's like, I knew.

411
00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:38,440
Speaker 1: I knew from the beginning that, like Francis said, you

412
00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:40,639
Speaker 1: were always a monster, and I was just like, well,

413
00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:45,600
Speaker 1: you're going to hell. She turns around, and the afterlife

414
00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:49,440
Speaker 1: she's going to it's gonna be clearly Arkham. Because the

415
00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:51,720
Speaker 1: cops arrive and the arrest her and the arrestor for

416
00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:54,440
Speaker 1: the attack and the arrestor for the hangman ship, and

417
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Speaker 1: this is.

418
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Speaker 3: So evil set her up in the most tortuous way

419
00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:01,120
Speaker 3: post He set.

420
00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:05,600
Speaker 1: Her the fuck up. Meanwhile, Francis has had a stroke

421
00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:08,479
Speaker 1: because of what doctor rush and Sovia did to her

422
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:13,200
Speaker 1: the stress of it. She's now incommunicado. She cannot speak,

423
00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:15,960
Speaker 1: and it's unclear if she's even conscious of what's going on.

424
00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:18,720
Speaker 1: Oz is so proud. He's trying to show her the

425
00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:21,320
Speaker 1: news reports of Sophia's downfall and be like I did it,

426
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:24,240
Speaker 1: we did it, I got him. But she has no reaction,

427
00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:28,000
Speaker 1: and this is very devastating for Oz. Later, Oz and

428
00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:31,000
Speaker 1: Vick have a drink. They're overlooking the city, talk about Ma.

429
00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:34,800
Speaker 1: They talk about this grand criminal adventure they undertook and

430
00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:38,240
Speaker 1: Oz is like, do you think MA forgives me? Vick

431
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:40,200
Speaker 1: is like for what? And ozs like, oh, yeah, you

432
00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:43,359
Speaker 1: don't know about that, and then they both wonder in

433
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:46,399
Speaker 1: this very heartbreaking moment about what. Oz is like, I

434
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:48,200
Speaker 1: wonder what MA would think about me and my brothers

435
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:49,920
Speaker 1: would think about me, and Vick's like, yeah, I wonder

436
00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:51,600
Speaker 1: what my family would think about it, and he says

437
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,680
Speaker 1: he really misses them. Oz tells, Vic, you know, I

438
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:57,160
Speaker 1: was really smart what you did. I didn't see that move,

439
00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:01,159
Speaker 1: bringing in the deputies, bringing in Lincoln, the others. I

440
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:03,000
Speaker 1: didn't see that, but you did that with smart And

441
00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:05,680
Speaker 1: then they hug and then Oz says, you know where

442
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:08,240
Speaker 1: I'm going now, to the halls of power and city Hall.

443
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:10,920
Speaker 3: Think says family. You'll like my family.

444
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:14,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, family, that's right. He as like, well, where I'm going,

445
00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:17,560
Speaker 1: I can't bring you, and then he kills Vic. He

446
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:21,240
Speaker 1: strangles Vic and what is the most heartbreaking fucking moment

447
00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:24,359
Speaker 1: of the season. And I'll say this, I think it's

448
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:25,560
Speaker 1: for several reasons.

449
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:25,760
Speaker 6: Right.

450
00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:29,840
Speaker 1: Number one, the connections to the street. Hayden said, like,

451
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,240
Speaker 1: you can't have any ties tying you to the criminal

452
00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:34,399
Speaker 1: in the world. And where Oz wants to go, clearly

453
00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:35,280
Speaker 1: Vic could not come.

454
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:35,600
Speaker 4: Yeah.

455
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,600
Speaker 1: I think the family thing. Also, there's that jealousy aspect

456
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:41,840
Speaker 1: of acting like you're part of this. He saw the

457
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:45,560
Speaker 1: moments of warmth with Vic and Ma and I think

458
00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:47,720
Speaker 1: that also triggered him. And I think it's another thing.

459
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:50,960
Speaker 1: I think it's that move he said, I didn't see that,

460
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:53,200
Speaker 1: but that's a good move. Yeah. Not only that, but

461
00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:57,160
Speaker 1: like who's Oz's second can command? It would be Vic? Yeah,

462
00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:59,879
Speaker 1: And I think he saw in Vic a threat that

463
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,119
Speaker 1: he didn't see before anything. Now is the time to

464
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:04,360
Speaker 1: get rid of this guy.

465
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:07,919
Speaker 2: I also think the biggest thing that he is afraid

466
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:11,560
Speaker 2: of is he's worried that Vic knows about his mum.

467
00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:14,200
Speaker 2: I do still think at the heart of it, he

468
00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:18,040
Speaker 2: doesn't want anyone around who knows that his mom is

469
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:19,720
Speaker 2: in this you know, weak state.

470
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:22,160
Speaker 3: But yeah, I have to say I we did think

471
00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 3: Vic was going to die.

472
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:26,080
Speaker 2: I thought it was going to be more he gets shot,

473
00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 2: or he has to be sacrificed, or Oz has to choose.

474
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:31,800
Speaker 1: I thought it was gonna be he takes a bullet

475
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:32,399
Speaker 1: from Ze.

476
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:34,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, they did such a good job here.

477
00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:37,960
Speaker 2: Of By the time Oz has finished killing Vic in

478
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:44,280
Speaker 2: this horrendous, really brutal, kind of prolonged strangulation scene, you

479
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:46,200
Speaker 2: just you hate him so much.

480
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:50,000
Speaker 3: There's no redemption for this character anymore. There's no I was.

481
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 2: Still rooting when he was in there with Sophia my

482
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:55,840
Speaker 2: water White, who I do love. But when he was

483
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 2: in there, I was still thinking, like Oz, I know

484
00:23:57,680 --> 00:23:59,320
Speaker 2: you're going to get out of this. You're crazy, but

485
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:01,760
Speaker 2: you're gonna get this. By the end, I'm like, I

486
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 2: will go to Gotham and I will kill Oz myself.

487
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:06,359
Speaker 3: I will do it.

488
00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:10,080
Speaker 2: I will never forgive him, And I do think it's

489
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 2: very interesting how the smallest, most intimate moment like this

490
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:17,320
Speaker 2: of a character who some people may say, oh, well,

491
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:19,800
Speaker 2: Vic didn't mean anything, like why does it matter? No,

492
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:22,960
Speaker 2: This actually establishes him, in my opinion, as like a

493
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:29,240
Speaker 2: deeply evil antagonist associopath who he doesn't care about anything,

494
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,080
Speaker 2: and he's going to be a scary figure for Batman

495
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:32,880
Speaker 2: to face down.

496
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:35,440
Speaker 1: I completely agree with you, And look at what he's

497
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 1: done to get here this full time is saying rallying

498
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,240
Speaker 1: the gangs, Hey, you guys, you know they overlook us,

499
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 1: all this stuff. He can't wait to turn his back

500
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,320
Speaker 1: on him now now that he's has entrede a city hall.

501
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 3: Oh, he's going to kill every one. He doesn't care.

502
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 1: He doesn't give a shit about where he came from.

503
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:53,880
Speaker 1: And a guy like him and all this stuff, he's

504
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 1: just climbing. That's all he wants to do is climb.

505
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 3: Joe and the other bosses were right because they said

506
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:01,440
Speaker 3: he doesn't have a code.

507
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:02,200
Speaker 1: They fucked up to.

508
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 3: They were like, this guy doesn't have a code.

509
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:05,480
Speaker 1: They fucked up to, and they should they should have

510
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:09,160
Speaker 1: taken him out. Listen, it's on everybody for not whacking

511
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 1: Oz the moment you see him. I'm always gonna get

512
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:17,160
Speaker 1: lured in by this deal that we're all gonna benefit from.

513
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 1: And yes, I betrayed you before, but look at what's

514
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,359
Speaker 1: in it for us. Now, look at week would do together.

515
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:26,359
Speaker 1: And in that moment, that's when you got to shoot him.

516
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:27,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.

517
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:34,320
Speaker 1: Anyway, Sophia, like, that's your fatal flaw other than you're

518
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 1: also an evil person who clearly was broken by this experience.

519
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,359
Speaker 1: But you're an evil person too, But your fatal flaw

520
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:45,399
Speaker 1: is you wanted to get the satisfaction of torturing Oz

521
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 1: when you should have just killed him. That's it. What

522
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 1: are you doing? Anyway? Guess where Sophia is? Sadly, she's

523
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:55,160
Speaker 1: back in Arkham. Doctor Rush welcomes her back and he's like, babe,

524
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:57,240
Speaker 1: I got your mail. That bit, I got your mail.

525
00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:58,160
Speaker 1: But this is exciting.

526
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:01,400
Speaker 3: I just gotta say he got his back quit.

527
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:03,399
Speaker 4: But now he's back there, so what he can be

528
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:04,440
Speaker 4: in charge of her again.

529
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:05,640
Speaker 3: He's a psycho.

530
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:08,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's exactly what he wants. He wants to be

531
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 1: close to her again.

532
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:10,119
Speaker 3: Exactly crazy.

533
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 1: But he brings her mail and guess what, Ah, she's

534
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:18,639
Speaker 1: got a letter from her half sister, Selena.

535
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 3: Kyle Selena Kyle Catwe's.

536
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 1: Sophia reads the letter and smiles, Wow, oh my gosh, incredible. Meanwhile, Oz,

537
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:30,399
Speaker 1: now in tuxedo and top hat, goes to the d

538
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 1: Loox apartment in the sky where he has Ma in

539
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 1: her own room, watching I guess the news and stuff

540
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 1: and looking out at a beautiful picture window viewer this city.

541
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:40,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, looking out the window is the big thing.

542
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 2: But she is like just laying there in a hospital bed,

543
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:49,360
Speaker 2: completely bleak, nothing in the room. It's awful and depressing,

544
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 2: and a single tear rolls from her eye and I

545
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,560
Speaker 2: was just like, oh, yes, isn't it everything I promised you.

546
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 2: I'm like, I know she's trapped in there, like this

547
00:26:57,560 --> 00:26:59,640
Speaker 2: is my punishment for letting this child live.

548
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 1: Yeah. Oz goes in the other room where Eve is waiting,

549
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,199
Speaker 1: dressed as his mom. It gets very very dark now

550
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 1: Eve is dressed as his mom in the same dress

551
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 1: from that night of Monrose. They danced to the very

552
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 1: same song. They dance slow together, and I was was like, MA,

553
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:18,120
Speaker 1: tell me you're proud of me, tell me you love me, Mom,

554
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 1: tell me I did it. Ma, come on, tell me

555
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:23,399
Speaker 1: I did it. Tell me I'm the only one for you.

556
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:26,400
Speaker 1: And it's fucking dark as hell.

557
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,359
Speaker 2: And that's season one of the No No, No, don't

558
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 2: miss because at the end, I mean, she's raking it in,

559
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 2: he's raking it in.

560
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 3: Good for Eve.

561
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 2: And as they pull out of the sky and they

562
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:43,240
Speaker 2: show we see the batsygn light up the sky of Gotham.

563
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 3: No no, no, but yeah, season one, what a season.

564
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:54,679
Speaker 1: Unbelievable and it really painted an unbelievably detailed and immersive

565
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,440
Speaker 1: picture of a villain who I think is really gonna

566
00:27:57,480 --> 00:27:59,639
Speaker 1: give Batman a run for his money, because it's not

567
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 1: just like a charismatic, no insane puzzle master like the

568
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 1: Riddler or the Joker. This is a person who understands

569
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 1: how to wield the levers of power in the city

570
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 1: as like a faux legitimate guy, and that's gonna be

571
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 1: very tough for Batman to take on.

572
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:22,479
Speaker 2: And obviously the class aspect that Oswald has learnt to wield,

573
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:24,920
Speaker 2: this idea of being a man of the people, that's very.

574
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 1: Rich guy, rich guy like your Bruce Wayne. You look

575
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:30,560
Speaker 1: rich girl with the looking.

576
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,440
Speaker 3: Okay, so threads I would like to see continued.

577
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:37,399
Speaker 2: Obviously, Selena and Sophia, I would love to see some

578
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 2: kind of connection there, some kind of exploration. I'm glad

579
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 2: they kept Sofia alive. She's a fantastic villain too. I

580
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 2: would also, this is my like fan cannon in my head.

581
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 3: I want Link to know that Oswald killed Vi when

582
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 3: Vic's body is found. I want Link to.

583
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 2: Be pissed off about it and be a thorn in

584
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 2: Oz's side about it because he knows that that was

585
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:02,000
Speaker 2: his and Vic's plan.

586
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 3: That was not Oz's plan, you know. But yeah, I mean,

587
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 3: what a show I could watch if they kept this

588
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 3: same creative team.

589
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 2: I could watch them do one of these about every

590
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 2: single every single mister Freeze clay Fee.

591
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 3: It is so interesting. We've never gotten to see them fleshed.

592
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 2: Out in this way that feels so human and so

593
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:25,720
Speaker 2: depressing and so real, but also so invigorating and watchable.

594
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 3: Like I just love this show. And yeah, justice for Vic,

595
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:29,960
Speaker 3: Justice for Vic.

596
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 1: I completely agree. Up Next, our super producers Joel and

597
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 1: Carmen got to speak with Victor Aguilar himself, played by

598
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 1: Ronsey Flees. This is part of our interview that we

599
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 1: did a few episodes ago, but thank you so much

600
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 1: to Joel and Carmen who went off and did the

601
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 1: interview separately, so we would not get spoiled by by

602
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 1: the questions they were asking. Yeah, stay tunes for that,

603
00:29:52,320 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 1: RINSI flees up next, Yeah, Ramsey.

604
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 4: Hi, Carmon and I are here because we have no

605
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 4: self control.

606
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 7: And I watched the entire series in two or three sittings,

607
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 7: extremely obsessed with the show.

608
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 4: Oh good, devastated by the ending.

609
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 1: Oh my god.

610
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 4: I was fooled.

611
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 7: I was like, look at them, they made it. RAANSI

612
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 7: went back and saved him twice. Okay, figured out that

613
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,440
Speaker 7: we'll go to the underlings like masterminded all.

614
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 4: And then he killed the best part of himself. He

615
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 4: killed you.

616
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 1: It was crazy.

617
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,160
Speaker 7: It was okay, So lots of questions, but I wanted

618
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 7: to start with when did you learn that vic was

619
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 7: not gonna make it?

620
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 5: Oh?

621
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 6: I learned from the very beginning. The second I gotten

622
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 6: the part, I went and met with Lauren. Yeah, and

623
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:52,959
Speaker 6: we sat down and she told me the entire arc

624
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 6: of victory. She told me from the beginning to that

625
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 6: moment in episode six with Squid, all the way to

626
00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 6: the end with My Ultimate Faith eight.

627
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 7: Wow.

628
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 5: Any death, anytime an actor has to portray a death scene,

629
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 5: it's going to be iconic. And it's double that when

630
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 5: it's an epic portrayal and essentially the climax for the

631
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 5: title character. So this is a penguin finally deciding who

632
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 5: he is as a person, embracing his greatest strength, as

633
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 5: Sophia calls it earlier. How did you approach the scene

634
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 5: of Victor's finality?

635
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:26,440
Speaker 6: You know, I was written so beautiful. I'd hoped when

636
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 6: I heard about it that we would be able to

637
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 6: have a that there would be some sort of twist,

638
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 6: that it would be surprising in some way, And then

639
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 6: I read the script and I thought it was gorgeous

640
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 6: the way they kind of The first thing I realized

641
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 6: was that it could be so that the scene had

642
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 6: so much potential to be very intimate and vulnerable and soft,

643
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 6: and of course just opposed that with the latter half

644
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 6: of the scene, where it's the opposite. Theia aggress is

645
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:49,480
Speaker 6: very violent and very is shocking. But I thought, the

646
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 6: first half is this moment of vulnerability between these two people.

647
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 6: You know, it's like, wow, we're here, We're in pain,

648
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 6: and I'm here with you, but you know what we

649
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 6: did it? And I tell him I missed my family

650
00:31:58,000 --> 00:31:59,719
Speaker 6: and I miss him a lot too. But you're kind

651
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 6: of like family to me. Basically, I'm on the verge

652
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 6: of saying another words. I think these guys maybe a

653
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 6: little bit scared of their emotions, but they're basically saying

654
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 6: like I love you essentially, is what's going on through

655
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 6: these words. You know, there's this love I have, love,

656
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 6: I care about you so much, and thank you thanks

657
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 6: for saving me out of that pit of whatever I

658
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 6: was in. And there's this love that they have for

659
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 6: each other, or at least a big has for Oz.

660
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 6: So the approaching it was really just try and be

661
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 6: as like intimate as possible and as like let those

662
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 6: words and that feeling, that emotion land before obviously something

663
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 6: worse happens.

664
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 7: Yeah, were there any conversations between you and Colin about

665
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 7: like how that scene was gonna work, or before or

666
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 7: after the scene? I know, sometimes there's like a check

667
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 7: in after doing something so intense.

668
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 6: Beforehand, there wasn't much of a talk about men. Kole

669
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 6: didn't talk about many scenes before we did them, almost

670
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,760
Speaker 6: at all, maybe one scene, maybe one and a half scenes.

671
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,479
Speaker 6: I think he and I both just liked the idea

672
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 6: of let's go forward it. We both had ideas going

673
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:56,959
Speaker 6: in and so we let's just see what happens when

674
00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 6: when those ideas are to come together, you know, and

675
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 6: bounce off each other. But what we kept doing, what

676
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 6: he kept asking was you're ready. You're ready for tomorrow,

677
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 6: like three days when I goes, you're ready for our

678
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 6: seeing and three you know, it was like we knew

679
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 6: it was coming and it's this big moment and we

680
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 6: both know it's these big moments that hopefully the audience

681
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 6: can you know that they makes them feel something. So

682
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 6: we knew it was coming and it was this thing.

683
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 6: It was like the date was circled, but it was

684
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 6: never like what are you thinking about this? And what

685
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 6: are you thinking about that? It was more like it's coming,

686
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 6: are you ready? Are you ready? And then and then

687
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 6: doing it?

688
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:26,520
Speaker 7: You know, you guys asted, I've literally been haunted for weeks.

689
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 7: I think we have time for one more question, Kerrman.

690
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, now that Vick is not around any longer, what

691
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:33,720
Speaker 5: does he mean to you?

692
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 1: Oh?

693
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 6: Man? I mean, I you know, you fall in love

694
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 6: with these characters you play, and you fall in love

695
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 6: with who they are and how they feel and the

696
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 6: things they've been through. And I think it's ultimately if

697
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 6: I'm looking at it from an outsider's perspective, it's heartbreaking

698
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:50,960
Speaker 6: that this human being gave basically his life over in

699
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:52,960
Speaker 6: time and time again, risked his own life for this

700
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:56,120
Speaker 6: greater goal of helping Oz and helping them, both of them.

701
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 6: I guess that once it's not just helping os, but

702
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 6: helping them both and then being vulnerable enough to allow

703
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 6: himself to, you know, find this love and companionship with

704
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 6: someone else, only for that to you know, be completely

705
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 6: turned around on him and you know, in the most evil,

706
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 6: shocking way, and to be murdered by that very person.

707
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:15,360
Speaker 6: So it's heartbreaking, it's brutal that this because he is

708
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 6: I see him as a very sweet kid who had

709
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:19,960
Speaker 6: to do some pretty bad things in order to protect

710
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:22,359
Speaker 6: the people that he cared about, and he didn't want

711
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:23,800
Speaker 6: to do them, and he never wanted to stay and

712
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 6: he never really wanted to be a part of this thing.

713
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:27,759
Speaker 6: But then again, you can't cop out because you did.

714
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 6: You did decide to stay, and you had a cance believe,

715
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 6: and you didn't. And so it's just kind of ultimately

716
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 6: that's the way that that was always going to crumble.

717
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:36,160
Speaker 6: When Victor decided to not get on that bus and three,

718
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 6: you know, he stealed his fad in that moment.

719
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:41,840
Speaker 7: You get such a strong feeling of that at the

720
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 7: end of three and I mean, Rindzi have to tell you,

721
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 7: I really think it's become an iconic character in the

722
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 7: Batman universe of characters, Like, We've never had a sidekick

723
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 7: like this.

724
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 4: It's been a long time since we had a character.

725
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 1: You know.

726
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:57,800
Speaker 7: You have your jacent Todds, you have your back girls

727
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,400
Speaker 7: who have like very dramatic moments. But I think this

728
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 7: level of connection, this level of working through the streets

729
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:04,799
Speaker 7: of Gotham and figuring it out, like I just feel

730
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:07,480
Speaker 7: I feel deeply connected to Vic. I miss him already,

731
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 7: and I think you did such a lovely job. Thank

732
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 7: you so much for sticking around with us.

733
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:13,200
Speaker 4: We appreciate it. You were wonderful.

734
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:15,919
Speaker 6: That's so sweet. Thank you so much.

735
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:19,719
Speaker 1: I appreciate that. That's it for this episode. Tomorrow we

736
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 1: are finally heading back to Piltover in the Under City

737
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:27,360
Speaker 1: for our recap of Arcane season two, Act one. Then Thursday,

738
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 1: we'll be back to break down the future of the

739
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:32,720
Speaker 1: DC Cinematic Universe. That's it for this episode. Thanks for listening.

740
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:41,719
Speaker 1: Bye x ray Vision is hosted by Jason Gitsumsion and

741
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 1: Rosie Knight and is a production of iHeart Podcasts. Our

742
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:50,279
Speaker 1: executive producers are Joelle Smith and Aaron Kaufman. Our supervising

743
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 1: producer is a Boo Zafar. Our producers are Carmen Lron

744
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:59,360
Speaker 1: and Mia Taylor. Our theme song is by Brian Basquez.

745
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 3: Special thanks to Soul Rubin and Chris Lord. Kenny Goodman

746
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:06,640
Speaker 3: and Heidi are Discord moderator