1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:12,040 Speaker 2: This week, the criminal cases against former FBI director James 3 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 2: Comy a New York Attorney General Letitia James came to 4 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:19,160 Speaker 2: a sudden halt. A federal judge today tossed out separate 5 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 2: criminal cases against former FBI director James Comy and New 6 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 2: York State Attorney General Leticia James. Both Comy and James 7 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 2: had been facing criminal charges brought by the Trump administration, 8 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:32,879 Speaker 2: and both had been fighting those charges in court. They 9 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 2: were both expected to stand trial in January, but on Monday, 10 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 2: the federal judge presiding over their cases dismissed those charges, 11 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 2: ruling that the prosecutor tapped by the Department of Justice 12 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 2: to bring the cases had been illegally appointed. 13 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 1: Judge Cameron McGowan Curry found the appointment of Lindsay Halligan 14 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:54,200 Speaker 1: as interim US attorney was invalid and unlawful. 15 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 2: The White House has said the Department of Justice plans 16 00:00:56,720 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 2: to file an appeal, and prosecutors could be able to 17 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 2: against Comy and James in the future. Comye and James 18 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:07,319 Speaker 2: are among several of President Trump's perceived political enemies who've 19 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:10,759 Speaker 2: been investigated or charged by the Department of Justice since 20 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:15,560 Speaker 2: Trump took office in January. Trump's emphasis on retribution and 21 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:18,959 Speaker 2: the way the DOJ has been reshaped under his presidency 22 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:22,679 Speaker 2: is something we've been covering on the show. I recently 23 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:25,760 Speaker 2: sat down with my Bloomberg colleagues Nancy Cook and Chris Strome, 24 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:28,959 Speaker 2: who covered the White House and the DOJ, to discuss 25 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:31,679 Speaker 2: the stakes of the Comye and James cases, the role 26 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:34,759 Speaker 2: the DJ has played in carrying out Trump's second term agenda, 27 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:40,840 Speaker 2: and what to expect next. Here's our conversation. For those 28 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 2: who have been wronged and betrayed, I am your retribution. 29 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 3: I am your retribution. 30 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 2: Retribution was a key theme of President Donald Trump's return 31 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 2: to the White House. Here he is in twenty twenty 32 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 2: two speaking about the injustice he saw in the convictions 33 00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 2: of January sixth, right, and if it requires pardon, we 34 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 2: will give them pardons because they are being treated so unfairly. 35 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 2: And in twenty twenty three talking about the injustice of 36 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 2: the cases brought against him. But remember it's a democrat 37 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 2: charging his opponent. 38 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:17,959 Speaker 1: Nobody's ever seen anything like it. 39 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 2: That means that if I win and somebody wants to 40 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 2: run against me. 41 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:24,240 Speaker 3: I call my Attorney general. 42 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 2: I say, listen, indict him. 43 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:30,520 Speaker 3: Well, he hasn't done anything wrong that we know. I 44 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:30,960 Speaker 3: don't know. 45 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 2: Indict him on income tax evasion. You'll figure it out. 46 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 1: Going into his second term, it was an open question 47 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 1: about how much time would be spent on policy versus 48 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:42,279 Speaker 1: how much time would be spent on revenge. 49 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:46,919 Speaker 2: Bloomberg's senior national political reporter Nancy Cook has covered Trump 50 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 2: for a decade and interviewed him in mar A Lago 51 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 2: a couple days before the first twenty twenty four presidential debate. 52 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 1: I think there were people around him who wanted him 53 00:02:56,960 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 1: to really build a big policy agenda and were tearing 54 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: him away from the retribution agenda. But what we've seen 55 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: in office so far is that the retribution agenda is 56 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:08,920 Speaker 1: alive and well, and even more so than I think 57 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 1: Republicans and even people close to Trump thought were possible. 58 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 2: I'm Sarah Holder, and this is the big take from 59 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 2: Bloomberg News Today. On the show, how Trump is upending 60 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 2: norms and expanding presidential powers to target his perceived political enemies. 61 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 2: A major weapon in that fight the Department of Justice. 62 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 2: Bloomberg's Nancy Cook says that when Trump took office in January, 63 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 2: he made it clear that retribution wasn't just a campaign theme, 64 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 2: it was a key part of his second term agenda. 65 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 1: The tools at his disposal are quite large at this 66 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 1: point because his administration is taking a very broad view 67 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 1: of presidential executive power. And I would say that unlike 68 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 1: the first term, this time they have really approached the 69 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 1: retribution campaign with real military style precision, a lot of 70 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 1: savviness about how to use the levers of the federal government. 71 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 1: We saw him very quickly go after law firms that 72 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 1: had done work for people he didn't like, using social 73 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:21,840 Speaker 1: media to go after people pulling security clearances, and then 74 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 1: lately we've seen him go after specific people who have 75 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 1: been personally critical of the Trump administration. 76 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 2: The Department of Justice has indicted former FBI Director James Core. 77 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:36,800 Speaker 1: President Trump's former national security advisor, John Bolten, has just 78 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: been on the Attorney General Letitia James has been indicted. 79 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 2: Part of what's enabled the Trump administration to pursue these 80 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:50,160 Speaker 2: targets is the cooperation of the Department of Justice. 81 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:53,479 Speaker 3: Pam Bondi said during her confirmation hearing to be Attorney 82 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:55,839 Speaker 3: General that she wasn't going to have an enemy's list 83 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:59,599 Speaker 3: at the Justice Department, but she doesn't need an enemy's 84 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 3: list because she has been given Trump's enemies list. 85 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 2: Chris Strom covers the Department of Justice for Bloomberg. 86 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:11,160 Speaker 3: Across the board, Bondie and her top staff have been 87 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:16,920 Speaker 3: carrying out essentially a purge at the Justice Department, where 88 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 3: hundreds of people, career prosecutors and staff have been fired 89 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 3: or resigned, and in concert with that, they've been investigating 90 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 3: and now prosecuting individuals who Trump has identified as being 91 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 3: his political enemies. They are carrying out broad, sweeping investigations 92 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:44,480 Speaker 3: into what Trump and his allies have said is a 93 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 3: grand conspiracy against Trump dating back to twenty sixteen, starting 94 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 3: with the Russian investigation, going into the Mouler investigation, going 95 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 3: into the investigation to Trump's efforts to overturn the tw 96 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:06,040 Speaker 3: twenty twenty election, and then the investigation into Trump retaining 97 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 3: classified documents. 98 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 2: It seems he doesn't view this as weaponizing the justice system. 99 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:15,719 Speaker 2: He views this as using the justice system in the 100 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:17,920 Speaker 2: same way that it was used against him. 101 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 3: Is that fair? Yeah. One of the really interesting approaches 102 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:26,920 Speaker 3: that Trump and his allies are taking is to say 103 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 3: that the Justice Department was weaponized against them, and therefore 104 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 3: they're trying to correct the record. They're trying to prosecute 105 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 3: people who carried out criminal actions up to and including 106 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:44,839 Speaker 3: treason against Trump. And if you look at the actions 107 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:49,480 Speaker 3: that are being taken now against Jim Comey or Letitia 108 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 3: James or John Bolton, a lot of it is finding 109 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:56,919 Speaker 3: any kind of charge that they possibly can to hang 110 00:06:56,960 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 3: onto somebody. It doesn't matter that these charges or just 111 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:04,040 Speaker 3: don't have anything to do with a grand conspiracy. All 112 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 3: that matters is that these people are under investigation and 113 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 3: now being prosecuted. And so Trump can claim that he's 114 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 3: been right all along in saying that these people are 115 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 3: dirty and these people are corrupt, and therefore they deserve 116 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 3: to go to jail. 117 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 2: Are there any mechanisms in place that are supposed to 118 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 2: prevent the president from using the Department of Justice in 119 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 2: this way. 120 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 3: One of the really interesting lessons from the Trump era 121 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 3: is that what we thought were rules and regulations governing 122 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 3: how the Justice Department operated and how criminal prosecutions were 123 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 3: conducted actually don't really exist. What Trump has exposed is 124 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 3: that we've been relying on a series of norms and 125 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 3: traditions where the Justice Department would willingly have a distance 126 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 3: in an independence from the administration. Multiple attorney generals and 127 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 3: arment officials across administrations have enforced policies and rules that 128 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 3: would separate the Justice Department from the White House when 129 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 3: it came to conducting investigations and making decisions about prosecutions. 130 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 3: Trump has obliterated that he's come in with a wrecking 131 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 3: ball and essentially has declared himself as being the chief 132 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 3: law enforcement officer of the country and the person who 133 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 3: can make decisions about who should be prosecuted and even 134 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:33,199 Speaker 3: how they can be prosecuted. 135 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:38,560 Speaker 2: Nancy Cooke says that change in norms is something you 136 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:39,559 Speaker 2: can actually see. 137 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:42,559 Speaker 1: One thing that has struck me just visually about Trump 138 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:44,680 Speaker 1: in the second term is Pam Bondy is over in 139 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 1: the Oval Office a lot of public events. I covered 140 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:50,040 Speaker 1: the first Trump term, I covered two years of Biden's 141 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 1: White House, Like I don't remember Mark Gartland being over 142 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 1: in the Oval Office all the time for events. Pam 143 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 1: Bondy is over there, often standing behind Trump as he 144 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 1: makes pronouncements, standing there with other officials. I would say 145 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 1: they're upending a lot of the legal agencies, including the FBI, 146 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 1: the CIA, but it's like she is visually aligned with 147 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:16,200 Speaker 1: the president in these photo ops all the time as well. 148 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 2: The distance and independence the White House has traditionally kept 149 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 2: from the Department of Justice is a modern phenomenon that 150 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:26,560 Speaker 2: only dates back to the aftermath of Richard Nixon's presidency 151 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:27,960 Speaker 2: and the Watergate scandal. 152 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 3: Nixon tried to use the powers of the presidency in 153 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:33,840 Speaker 3: order to investigate his political enemies, and Nixon tried to 154 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 3: actually tell the Justice Department how to carry out investigations. 155 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 3: Members of Congress actually stood up to the president and 156 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 3: determined that the actions that were being taken were offensive, 157 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:51,680 Speaker 3: that there had to be certain guardrails put in place, 158 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 3: and so that's when you began to see laws that 159 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 3: were actually passed, such as creating inspector generals within these agencies. 160 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 3: But during this Trump administration, those safeguards have just been 161 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:10,440 Speaker 3: knocked down. Trump fired a bunch of inspector generals. He 162 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 3: has declared that he can do what he wants with 163 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 3: the Justice Department, and you're not seeing the same pushback 164 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:23,080 Speaker 3: in Congress that you did forty years ago. 165 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 2: Coming up, what's next In the cases of former FBI 166 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 2: Director James Comy and new York State Attorney General Letitia James, 167 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 2: and what kind of new precedent Trump's norm breaking DJ 168 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:49,840 Speaker 2: could set. It's been over half a century since Nixon's 169 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 2: Watergate scandal pushed Congress to create firmer boundaries between the 170 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 2: Department of Justice and the president, but now Trump has 171 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:01,679 Speaker 2: started breaking them. Critics said that many of the indictments 172 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 2: Trump's DOJ has opened so far are motivated by the 173 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:09,560 Speaker 2: president's quest for revenge. Trump doesn't see it that way. 174 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 3: It's about Justico's thrill. 175 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 2: It's not revenge is about. In late September, he was 176 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:17,960 Speaker 2: asked about the indictment of former FBI director James Comy 177 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:21,680 Speaker 2: as he boarded Air Force one. Komy was charged with 178 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 2: making a false statement and obstructing a congressional proceeding related 179 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 2: to his twenty twenty testimony at a Senate Judiciary hearing. 180 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 2: He's pleaded not guilty, as it's also about the fact 181 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:37,240 Speaker 2: that you can't let this go on. They are sick, 182 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:40,679 Speaker 2: radical left people and they can't get away with it 183 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 2: and call me, call me was one of the people. 184 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:44,080 Speaker 1: He wasn't. 185 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 2: Comy first got on Trump's bad side back in twenty sixteen, 186 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:52,560 Speaker 2: when Comy opened an investigation into alleged ties between Trump's 187 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:56,680 Speaker 2: first presidential campaign and Russia. That was the original Sin 188 00:11:56,960 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 2: Bloomberg DOJ reporter Chris Strome. 189 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 3: Devestigation continued. Trump fired Komi in May of twenty seventeen, 190 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:10,720 Speaker 3: and Komy then leaked some of his written memos about 191 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 3: his interactions with Trump, and the public revelations were very 192 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:20,800 Speaker 3: damaging to Trump and actually led the Justice Department at 193 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:23,720 Speaker 3: that time to appoint Special Counsel Moler to carry on 194 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 3: the Russian investigation, and ever since then, Trump has vilified 195 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:32,720 Speaker 3: Komi and called for his prosecution. 196 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 2: So it was something he couldn't get done in his 197 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 2: first term and became a big priority and part of 198 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 2: how he shaped the Justice Department in his second term. 199 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, he was not getting the results he wanted during 200 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:49,720 Speaker 3: the beginning of his second administration, and so he put 201 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 3: out a very public demand on social media, essentially in 202 00:12:54,200 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 3: order to Bondie, demanding that Komi and others like Letitia 203 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 3: James be prosecuted. And it was only days later that 204 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 3: the White House installed one of Trump's White House aides, 205 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 3: Lindsay Halligan, who Trump abruptly put in as the interim 206 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:17,040 Speaker 3: UIs Attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia, and just 207 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 3: days after she was inserted into that position, she brought 208 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 3: an indictment against James Comy, and then a couple weeks later, 209 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 3: she brought an indictment against Letitia James. 210 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 2: James had launched a federal civil fraud case against Trump 211 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 2: and the Trump Organization in twenty twenty two and one 212 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:39,760 Speaker 2: in October, she was charged with mortgage occupancy fraud and 213 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:43,760 Speaker 2: for making false statements to a financial institution. She's also 214 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 2: pleaded not guilty. 215 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:49,680 Speaker 3: The career prosecutors working in the Eastern District of Virginia 216 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 3: had reached a decision that there was no justification to 217 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:56,319 Speaker 3: bring these cases against Comy and James and that most 218 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:59,720 Speaker 3: likely these cases would fail in court. 219 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 2: I'm wondering how Trump, being very open about his dislike 220 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 2: of Comy might play into this case, because I know 221 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:10,600 Speaker 2: Komy has asked for the charges against him to be dismissed, 222 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:12,840 Speaker 2: arguing that he is being personally targeted. 223 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:17,560 Speaker 3: Komy has already filed a motion to say that the 224 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 3: indictment against him should be dismissed because it represents an 225 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 3: addictive and selective prosecution, and his legal team has cited 226 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 3: the multitude of times that Trump has disparaged Comy or 227 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 3: called for his prosecution. These motions have already been made, 228 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:39,840 Speaker 3: they're under consideration by the judge, and trying to succeed 229 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:43,840 Speaker 3: with emotion claiming vindictive and selective prosecution is very difficult. 230 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 3: A lot of defendants do it but don't have success. 231 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 3: Komy might be the poster child for a case that 232 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 3: can actually succeed, and if Comy's motion succeeds, it most 233 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 3: likely will also be replicated by Letitia James in her 234 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 3: and others who are still to come. 235 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 2: Comy and James, for their part, are both determined to 236 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 2: fight their charges in court. Their trials are set for January, 237 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 2: and over the past year, several DOJ attorneys have resigned 238 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:17,960 Speaker 2: in protest over directives they were given in other investigations. 239 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 2: But Chris says Trump's DOJ is facing resistance that's much 240 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 2: more mutant than it was in the Nixon era. 241 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 3: Congress has largely been absent. I mean Democrats don't have 242 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:29,960 Speaker 3: any power. They don't control either the House or the Senate, 243 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 3: and so in order to have oversight hearings or to 244 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:38,040 Speaker 3: demand information from the administration or issue subpoenas that can 245 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 3: only come from the Republican majority, and they're not doing it. 246 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 3: You do have individuals inside agencies such as the Justice 247 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 3: Department that are questioning what the White House and what 248 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:53,080 Speaker 3: Trump are doing. There have been some examples where even 249 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 3: Attorney General Bondie and Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche have 250 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 3: resisted certain steps that Trump and his allies want the 251 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:08,840 Speaker 3: Justice Department to take. There's still some open questions about 252 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 3: what the Justice Department is going to do with some 253 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 3: of these cases that they haven't been fully on board 254 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:20,400 Speaker 3: with what Trump has been demanding that they do. 255 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 2: I'm curious about long term precedent here. It's something that 256 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:26,520 Speaker 2: comes up a lot when we talk about the way 257 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 2: that Trump is operating as president. Is it possible and 258 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 2: is it a concern that future US leaders, Republican or Democrat, 259 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 2: could turn around and do the same thing to their 260 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 2: political opponents or use the DOJ to similar ends. 261 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:44,480 Speaker 3: Yes, I mean that's one of the concerns that has 262 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 3: been raised is that as Trump breaks down the walls 263 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 3: that have existed between the Justice Department and the White House, 264 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:55,840 Speaker 3: he's setting a new precedent that any administration going forward 265 00:16:55,960 --> 00:17:00,280 Speaker 3: can use, and there's really nothing to stop that from 266 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:05,639 Speaker 3: happening short of either a public outcry that becomes so 267 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 3: overwhelming or congressional resistance. I think for Trump and his allies, 268 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:15,720 Speaker 3: it's not even a matter of getting a conviction. It's 269 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 3: the process of indicting these individuals and forcing them to 270 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:26,120 Speaker 3: have to get legal representation and go through court processes. 271 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:28,880 Speaker 3: The process is the punishment, not. 272 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 1: Just the process as the punishment, but also the message 273 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:32,879 Speaker 1: that it sends to other people. 274 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 2: Bloomberg's senior national political reporter Nancy Cook again, if you. 275 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:39,919 Speaker 1: Speak out, there is a huge rist that will go 276 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:42,719 Speaker 1: after you. And I think that you're seeing in Washington, 277 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:45,359 Speaker 1: DC a lot of self censorship, you know, with like 278 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:48,399 Speaker 1: maybe lawyers not speaking out as much, or former Trump 279 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 1: officials who were very vocal and on TV a lot 280 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 1: going quiet. And so I do think that it's it's 281 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:57,360 Speaker 1: the message that you know, you just keep it to yourself. 282 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:00,879 Speaker 2: In late September, Trump was asked was next on his 283 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:04,720 Speaker 2: list after the Komy indictment, and he said he isn't done, 284 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:08,119 Speaker 2: not a list, but I think there'll be others. The 285 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:11,640 Speaker 2: next wave of indictments could come as soon as January, 286 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 2: when a federal grand jury convenes in Florida, the Trump's 287 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 2: allies expect will investigate what they believe has been a 288 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:22,679 Speaker 2: long running conspiracy by former government officials to undermine Trump. 289 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:26,080 Speaker 3: Trump has even said that the Justice Department needs to 290 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:30,880 Speaker 3: take a look at Merrick Garland, Chris Ray, Lisa Monico, 291 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 3: Jack Smith. These were all the key officials in charge 292 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 3: of investigations that were against Trump. So that's the next 293 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 3: phase of the retribution campaign that I'm really paying attention 294 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:49,159 Speaker 3: to right now, in which individuals will get swept up 295 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:49,639 Speaker 3: into that. 296 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 1: And also, you have to keep in mind we're only 297 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:54,639 Speaker 1: in year one of his four years second term, so 298 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 1: it's very unclear to me what does the Justice Department 299 00:18:58,400 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 1: look like at the end. 300 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 2: Of this This is The Big Take from Bloomberg News. 301 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:10,120 Speaker 2: I'm Sarah Holder. To get more from The Big Take 302 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:14,000 Speaker 2: and unlimited access to all of Bloomberg dot Com, subscribe 303 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:18,119 Speaker 2: today at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast offer. If you 304 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:20,720 Speaker 2: like this episode, make sure to follow and review The 305 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:23,680 Speaker 2: Big Take wherever you listen to podcasts. It helps people 306 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 2: find the show. Thanks for listening. We'll be back tomorrow.