1 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:07,520 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and Samantha and welcome to Stuff 2 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 1: Will Never Told You production of iHeartRadio. Okay, so today 3 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:24,400 Speaker 1: we are talking about First Lady Edith Wilson, who I'm 4 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 1: just gonna go ahead and say was not an ally, 5 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: so I put that out there. But I was really 6 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:33,560 Speaker 1: interested in this story. The first time I heard about 7 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 1: it was on Drunk History. I had never heard about 8 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:39,960 Speaker 1: it before, and it was on my mind after the 9 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:45,520 Speaker 1: recent election inauguration and watching Nine to five actually pushed 10 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:47,280 Speaker 1: it to the top of my mind because nine to 11 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: five you've got women who are kind of making all 12 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 1: the decisions while the boss is incapacitated. 13 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 2: Yeah. 14 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 1: So, yeah, we're just going to do a quick history. 15 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 1: But there has been a lot written about this, so 16 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:05,400 Speaker 1: if you want to learn more, you there's plenty of resources, 17 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:08,840 Speaker 1: and I'm going to mention one of them in this today. Yeah, 18 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:11,560 Speaker 1: we're talking about First Lady Edith Wilson, who is sometimes 19 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:15,399 Speaker 1: called the first acting woman president. It's really complicated, but 20 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 1: it is interesting, so let's get into it. Edith was 21 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 1: born in Virginia in eighteen seventy two. From a young age, 22 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 1: she seemed eager for power. Her paternal grandmother described her 23 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:33,760 Speaker 1: as quote bespectacled tyrant ruling from a rocking chair from. 24 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 2: I know that's the title to have. 25 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:44,119 Speaker 1: That is a title to have. But she taught Edith 26 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 1: how to eat and write some French. Even she also 27 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 1: taught Edith the lost cosmith, which is essentially the Civil 28 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 1: War was something other than enslavement, which is not true, 29 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 1: but she did teach her that. Meanwhile, her hernal grandmother 30 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 1: was all about being ladylike and modest, which also comes 31 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 1: up in her story a lot. She even claimed. Edith 32 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 1: later claimed she was a direct descendant of the original 33 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:13,639 Speaker 1: colonizers of Virginia and Pocahontas. 34 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 2: So she's saying her ancestors right people. Yeah, okay, sure. 35 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 1: But I think at the time they didn't have that. 36 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:22,800 Speaker 2: Okay, love the head. 37 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 1: No, you're right. But Edith met and married President Woo 38 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 1: Joe Wilson in nineteen fifteen, a second marriage for the 39 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 1: both of them. Edith was a widow and had inherited 40 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:38,520 Speaker 1: her husband's DC jewelry shop, and records indicate that she 41 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 1: was the first woman in the area to get a 42 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:44,080 Speaker 1: driver's license. So all of these things, the job, the money, 43 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:46,960 Speaker 1: the license, the fact she didn't have kids. Afforded her 44 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:49,080 Speaker 1: a level of independence that a lot of women didn't 45 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:52,240 Speaker 1: have access to at the time, and it was extremely 46 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:55,800 Speaker 1: important her to the point she actually turned down President 47 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:59,360 Speaker 1: Wilson's proposal at first. She was worried about losing her 48 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 1: freedom and being subordinate as First Lady. The President eventually 49 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 1: won her over by sharing policy documents, which I'm almost 50 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:12,239 Speaker 1: confident was illegal. 51 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 2: But so he's showing national secrets to woo a woman. Yeah, 52 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 2: can we just say men are the worst? I could? 53 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 1: Yes? 54 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 2: All right. 55 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 1: So their union did raise some eyebrows at the time 56 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 1: and was somewhat of a political controversy because he married 57 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 1: her about six months after the death of his previous wife. 58 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 1: His aides even came up with a plot to keep 59 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 1: her away from him. They got engaged somewhat secretly, and 60 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 1: she was much more politically involved than Wilson's previous wife 61 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 1: had been, even trying to sever his relations with those 62 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: that had attempted to keep them apart. She also did 63 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 1: away with a lot of the first Lady duties that 64 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 1: she wasn't interested in using the nineteen seventeen Declaration of War, 65 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 1: so no more hosting of events like the Easter egg role. 66 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 1: From what I read, she was really into the image 67 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 1: of the American housewife though, which I find interesting because 68 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:16,279 Speaker 1: she canceled a lot of these events, But she was 69 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:20,360 Speaker 1: into the image of it, so she wore thrift store clothing. 70 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:24,839 Speaker 1: She sounds like she was very performative, or like she 71 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:28,600 Speaker 1: wanted to project this image that she did believe it. 72 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 1: I think she did believe in it, but she wanted 73 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:33,280 Speaker 1: to make sure you did know she believed in. 74 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 2: It, right. She wanted it for other women, just not herself. Yeah, 75 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:38,599 Speaker 2: you need to be subordinate, you need to listen, but 76 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 2: you're not as smart as me. 77 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:43,920 Speaker 1: Right, That's what I think. Yeah. She made sure that 78 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:47,240 Speaker 1: at the White House they observed rationing and doing things 79 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:51,840 Speaker 1: like meatless Mondays and meatless Wednesdays. She knitted, sewed, and 80 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 1: held charitable auctions. She responded to the letters of soldiers, 81 00:04:55,880 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 1: volunteered named vessels thousands by one source, decoded military messages, 82 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:06,159 Speaker 1: and gave her husband advice. She was very, very involved 83 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 1: and just to mention, kind of like I said at 84 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: the top, Wilson's presidency is complex. I feel like every 85 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 1: president's legacy is very complex. It was progressive in some ways, 86 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 1: but also pushing racist and sexist policies at the same time, 87 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:23,600 Speaker 1: So I just want to put that out there. Interestingly, 88 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 1: there is speculation that Wilson was so worried people thought 89 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 1: Edith was having undue influence on his policy that he 90 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 1: supported suffrage despite the anti suffrage viewpoints of his wife. 91 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 1: In nineteen nineteen, President Wilson had an incapacitating stroke, in 92 00:05:56,279 --> 00:05:58,160 Speaker 1: part from all the stress of World War One. He 93 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 1: also had like a history of health conditions similar and 94 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 1: his failure. He was really stressed about his failure to 95 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 1: convince the US to join the UN's precursor, the League 96 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 1: of Nations. So after the war he was really like, 97 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:17,119 Speaker 1: we should we should join an organization that's about peace, 98 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:20,280 Speaker 1: And then it failed and he was really stressed and 99 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 1: he had a shoke. With the help of some aids, 100 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 1: Edith pretty much lied to the public and press about 101 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:32,680 Speaker 1: his condition four months, claiming that he was suffering from 102 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:38,040 Speaker 1: quote nervous exhaustion. This was before a woman could vote. 103 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:41,480 Speaker 1: A reminder. She kept this up for a year and 104 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:45,839 Speaker 1: five months in total. She acted as a gatekeeper. She 105 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:50,159 Speaker 1: restricted who got to see him, and she informed people 106 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:54,599 Speaker 1: when he had decided on important issues. Four months she 107 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:58,800 Speaker 1: essentially assumed the role as president. The author of a 108 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 1: biography on Edith called Untold Power, The Fascinating Rise and 109 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 1: Complex Legacy of First Lady Edith Wilson, Rebecca Box Roberts 110 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 1: has said that, without a doubt, some of the decisions 111 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 1: she made herself, whether because she could not ask him 112 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 1: or chose not to, she most likely approved of cabinet 113 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 1: member appointments and issued vetos. So, as you might imagine, 114 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 1: she was controversial amongst the staff. They, i would say, 115 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 1: very rightfully didn't like that she was keeping them away 116 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 1: from him. And she was almost certainly keeping stuff from 117 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 1: her husband too. We don't know for sure, but she 118 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 1: said later that was like about his health. But anyway, anyway, 119 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 1: she was called presidentist, secret president, gatekeeper, extraordinary. 120 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 2: Woof. I mean, she's getting these titles now, like she's 121 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:57,800 Speaker 2: receiving these titles she was her. I'm now seeing a 122 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 2: lot of these plots, yeah, must have been based on her, 123 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 2: like a lot of these like presidential plot movies. Okay, 124 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 2: all right, she for all the bad things she does, 125 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 2: all the laws, she spills, girl doing her thing. 126 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 1: Go ahead, she's again, I want to read this book 127 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 1: because she's such a fascinating like, I don't want any 128 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 1: women to have rights, but I'm be. 129 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 2: Dead, but that will be the one that runs this. 130 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 2: Don't you worry about me? 131 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 1: All right? So we don't know. There's a lot we 132 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 1: don't know about this because we don't know for sure 133 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 1: she kept it sacred if this was being done out 134 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 1: of a desire to chase power or because she didn't 135 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 1: want to upset him Wilson and worse in his condition both. 136 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 1: Maybe she allegedly said that she believed resigning office would 137 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 1: have killed him. It's also likely that she was doing 138 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 1: what he would have done in terms of the decisions, 139 00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 1: because she knew him really well. So it's not like 140 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:01,679 Speaker 1: she came into power and did some thing he wouldn't 141 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 1: he wouldn't have done. She claimed she merely chose what 142 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 1: was important enough for her husband to see, and that 143 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:12,960 Speaker 1: she delayed a lot of it until he'd recovered. And 144 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 1: you can't look at all the stuff that happened in 145 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:20,200 Speaker 1: that period and make your own judgment. Also, legally he 146 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:22,560 Speaker 1: should have resigned. We're not a legal podcast, We've said 147 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 1: a million times, but legally, technically he should have resigned 148 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:31,440 Speaker 1: and let his vice president take over his duties. Apparently 149 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:37,079 Speaker 1: neither Woodrow are liked the vice president. Members of both 150 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 1: main political parties urged VP Marshall to assume the presidency, 151 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 1: but he refused, not wanting to set a precedence, which 152 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 1: feels so strange now different podcasts. 153 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 2: But I don't know that sounds like Pence a little bit. Yeah. 154 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:04,320 Speaker 1: Yeah. President Wilson died in nineteen twenty four. Edith stayed 155 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: in Washington and continued to meet with future first ladies. 156 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 1: A lot of people say she really shaped what that 157 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 1: position looks like in our modern day. I would we 158 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 1: should come back into a deeper dive into that. But 159 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 1: she was very much about being ladylike. She didn't like 160 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 1: one portrait of her because she thought she looked too authoritative, 161 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 1: so she kept the whole thing secret. It's just such 162 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:32,599 Speaker 1: a different The juxtaposition is so fascinating. 163 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:34,439 Speaker 2: I mean, just looks like she knew how to play 164 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:34,839 Speaker 2: the game. 165 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:37,679 Speaker 1: It sounds like she knew how to play the game. 166 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 2: And she just needed the It's kind of what we 167 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 2: see in most people. People who are truly powerful know 168 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:47,240 Speaker 2: that they do not need to be the face, right, 169 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:48,800 Speaker 2: they just need to pull the strings. 170 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:53,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, and she really did. She really like behind every 171 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 1: great man is a woman. She was like, yep, I. 172 00:10:57,200 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 2: Am that great wet. 173 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 1: So that's a really interesting story. I would love to 174 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 1: check out the book again. Clearly she wasn't an ally 175 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 1: so not not saying anything like that, but. 176 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 2: She didn't want any good for anybody else. It was just, yeah, 177 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 2: it was for her. I think she was going to 178 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:15,960 Speaker 2: call the narcissist. 179 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:18,200 Speaker 1: I could see that. 180 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, I know we say that word around a lot, 181 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:23,600 Speaker 2: but like this kind of level of like I know 182 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 2: what's best, yeah myself, No one else should have that 183 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:27,719 Speaker 2: same right. 184 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:32,960 Speaker 1: Yeah that that definitely felt like her whole deal was 185 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 1: that I know what's up, and I'm gonna run this 186 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 1: and I'm not gonna let anyone else interfere. But yeah, 187 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:43,320 Speaker 1: if if I've left out anything or got anything incorrect, 188 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:46,680 Speaker 1: I would love to hear from people. And if there's 189 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 1: anything that you would like us to expand upon from here, 190 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 1: please let us know. You can email us at Stepanie 191 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:55,680 Speaker 1: Moms Stuff at iheartmania dot com or Hello at Stepa 192 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 1: Never Told You. You can find us on Blue Sky 193 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 1: at mom Stuff podcast, or on Instagra and TikTok at 194 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:02,840 Speaker 1: stuff and Never Told You for also on YouTube. We 195 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:04,400 Speaker 1: have a tea public store, and we have a book 196 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:06,840 Speaker 1: you can get wherever you get your books. Thanks as 197 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:09,080 Speaker 1: always to our super producer Christine, our executive ducer My, 198 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 1: and our contributor Joey. 199 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 2: Thank you and thanks to you for listening. 200 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:14,160 Speaker 1: Stuff Will Never Told You is production of Iyhart Radio. 201 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 1: For more podcast from my Heart Radio, you can check 202 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:17,680 Speaker 1: out the heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you 203 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 1: listening to your favorite show.