1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:08,320 Speaker 1: Family Secrets is a production of iHeartRadio. Some people's questions 2 00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:12,520 Speaker 1: and comments pricked like a splinter, no blood lost, but 3 00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 1: sticking under my skin. Others burned in my chest so 4 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:18,800 Speaker 1: hard that I could barely speak the rest of the day. 5 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:24,920 Speaker 1: I was never Latina enough, Dominican enough, American enough, Chinese enough. 6 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 1: Even the fetishizing and backhanded compliments left bruises Chinese. Oh 7 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 1: that's where you get your cheekbones and your brains, sexy blend, 8 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:38,599 Speaker 1: best of both worlds. You're like a mut. MutS are 9 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 1: smarter and better than other dogs. Dogs. I can't tell 10 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 1: you how many times white people thought they were complimenting 11 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 1: me using references to dog breeding. Identity shouldn't be such pain. 12 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 1: It shouldn't be about playing an exhausting defense to simply 13 00:00:56,520 --> 00:01:00,160 Speaker 1: exist on par with the majority culture. It means, as 14 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 1: a default, white is best and you are less. Always. 15 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 1: I just wanted to live and feel good about who 16 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 1: I was, all my parts. 17 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 2: That's Carmen Rito Wong, radio television and online journalist, personal 18 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 2: finance expert, an author of the memoir Why Didn't You 19 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 2: Tell Me? Carmen's is a story about race, identity, secrecy, 20 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 2: and all the ways our lives are formed by what 21 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:44,679 Speaker 2: we don't yet know. I'm Danny Shapiro, and this is 22 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 2: family secrets, the secrets that are kept from us, the 23 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:50,559 Speaker 2: secrets we keep from others, and the secrets we keep 24 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 2: from ourselves. 25 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 1: The landscape of my childhood actually centered on two places. 26 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 1: So the beginning I started in Harlem. I had a 27 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 1: Dominican mother and a Chinese father, and that was the 28 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:13,360 Speaker 1: first landscape where I was surrounded by family immigrants from 29 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:17,680 Speaker 1: the Dominican Republic, my cousins, we came in all shades 30 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:22,919 Speaker 1: that we come in as Dominicans. And also my father 31 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:26,240 Speaker 1: at the time, Poppy Wang, who was a Chinese immigrant, 32 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 1: and he would take us oun in Chinatown all the time. 33 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 1: So it was a very rich landscape to start in 34 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 1: growing up with Poppy, with this Chinese father who was 35 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:44,520 Speaker 1: essentially a Chinese gangster, which I didn't discover till decades later. 36 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 1: Very slick, hustler, businessman type, super charming. I joke I 37 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 1: learned my hustle from him. He was so charming. He 38 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:56,959 Speaker 1: would take my brother and I all dressed up, especially 39 00:02:57,040 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 1: on Sundays, and Sundays was the best day because my 40 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:04,240 Speaker 1: grandmother Mayamuela would dress us up in the finest clothes 41 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 1: you could have at tiny ages and a little fur 42 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:11,359 Speaker 1: chubby coach. She made me from, you know, remnants from 43 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 1: she was a seamstress for Oscar to Laurenta, and she 44 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:17,360 Speaker 1: made me these things to dress us up for Chinatown 45 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 1: for Poppy, because when he would show up in his 46 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 1: big car, a car in New York City, a big, 47 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 1: you know, obnoxious car sedan, bring us downtown. The restaurant 48 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:29,960 Speaker 1: that we would go to on a Sunday was very 49 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 1: different from the Chinese restaurants we would go to during 50 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 1: the week Chinatown. During the week, the visits were to 51 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:39,839 Speaker 1: the basement restaurants with the duck in the window right, 52 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 1: which I loved, by the way, absolutely loved. But on 53 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 1: the weekend it was a very fancy, enormous restaurants that 54 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 1: take up like a whole floor, and they're filled with 55 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 1: gold and red and actually have white tablecloths, and there 56 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 1: was a dais where the most important people, the VIPs, 57 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 1: got to sit up on dis and Poppy would take 58 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 1: my brother and I, who we were just little brown 59 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 1: children with black curly hair who didn't look very much 60 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 1: like him, you know, have us trailing behind him and 61 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:17,839 Speaker 1: take us up to introduce us to the Dawn basically 62 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 1: his boss of the gang, and just kind of brag 63 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:22,839 Speaker 1: about us. And it was very cute, but it felt 64 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 1: made us feel important. It made us feel valued, even 65 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 1: though he was not a very good father to be honest, 66 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:36,040 Speaker 1: we got the message from my grandmother, especially really doting 67 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:38,799 Speaker 1: on us and then Poppy Wong bringing us and parading 68 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 1: us around that we had value and that was really 69 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 1: really important. So that's one big lesson he gave to us. 70 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:49,160 Speaker 1: And then the second landscape was when my mother divorced 71 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:55,359 Speaker 1: Poppy and remarried Anglo American gentleman who my stepfather moved 72 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 1: us out of the city to New Hampshire, which in 73 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 1: the late seventies and early eighties was could have been 74 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:05,800 Speaker 1: the moon. I might as well have landed on another planet. 75 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 1: Compared to the first landscape of my life, it was 76 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 1: more than suburban, rural, all white landscape that we were 77 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 1: quite alien in. 78 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 2: So it was your stepdad Marty, who you eventually began 79 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 2: to call dad, and your older brother Alex, Yes, and 80 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:29,359 Speaker 2: your mother Lupe, and yourself Yes. What was that like 81 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 2: for you growing up in that landscape? In which you 82 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 2: and your mom and your brother just looked different from 83 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:39,160 Speaker 2: everybody around you. 84 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:42,480 Speaker 1: Growing up as a kid in New Hampshire, you know, 85 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 1: around essentially people who It wasn't just about the color. 86 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:50,599 Speaker 1: It wasn't just the fact that it was whiteness and 87 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 1: we were brown and you know, basically light skinned black 88 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 1: people with Chinese as well. It was culture. It was 89 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 1: literally everything from the way my mother dressed me, the 90 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 1: way she dressed or done her hair, or the food language. 91 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 1: We weren't allowed to speak Spanish anymore at home, or 92 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 1: eat Latin food or Chinese food, any kind of ethnicity 93 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:16,719 Speaker 1: at all was very much erased. It was the first 94 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 1: place too, I mean, that was the internal process was 95 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:23,800 Speaker 1: you know, all the things that I had known were 96 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:27,760 Speaker 1: suddenly told that I wasn't allowed to be those things anymore. 97 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:32,039 Speaker 1: And there's that feeling too, of being othered, which is 98 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 1: something I had never experienced up until that point. Nor 99 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 1: my mother, even though she was an immigrant. She came 100 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 1: to a community in New York City where so many 101 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 1: people were just like her all around the city, but 102 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 1: in this place there was nobody like us. So it 103 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 1: was the first time we were othered, and it didn't 104 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:54,719 Speaker 1: come with good feelings. I didn't know it was bad 105 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:59,600 Speaker 1: or wrong or lesser than to be brown or ethnic 106 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 1: or black or whatever else. And it was a hard 107 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:06,159 Speaker 1: lesson to learn that that's the way it is in 108 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 1: some places. Hair to African American women is incredibly important. 109 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 1: It's a soul thing, right, It's a really about identity 110 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 1: and pride. And my mother, you know, being of African descent, 111 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 1: she had been straightening her hair for a long time, 112 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 1: which was you know, typical Dominicans are known for how 113 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 1: they straightened hair so well because the hair is so mixed. 114 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 1: But in New Hampshire, you know, she really felt the 115 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 1: pressure to erase any outward signs of her African ancestry, 116 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:43,320 Speaker 1: so her hair was straightened. He was put in a 117 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 1: bun every day, and she was kind of chafing a 118 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 1: couple of years. In chafing at all the erasure, she 119 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 1: started sneaking in Spanish music. When Marty wasn't home. She 120 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 1: found a market that actually sold things like yuca casava, 121 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:02,880 Speaker 1: and she would bring that home and boil it or plantains. 122 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 1: She'd go way out of her way to find some 123 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 1: and do it when he wasn't there. And one day 124 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 1: we kids were at home and she walked in the door. 125 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 1: I had been left alone with the kids, which was 126 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 1: totally normal for an eleven year old to be left 127 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 1: with four babies, including newborn. She came home and instead 128 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 1: of her pulled tight back, straight gun, she had a 129 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 1: short auburn afro, and I thought it was amazing. I 130 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 1: was like shocked and in awe. And she had seen 131 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:41,640 Speaker 1: it like that earlier that week on someone she loved, 132 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:46,680 Speaker 1: Rita Moreno was on Sesame Street, and of course we 133 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 1: kids all watch that, and Rita Modena had a short 134 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 1: auburn afro, and my mother just fell in love with it. 135 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:56,839 Speaker 1: She came home with that. My first reaction was, oh, 136 00:08:56,880 --> 00:09:00,319 Speaker 1: my gosh, this is amazing. It felt rebellious, it feltnxiety, 137 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:04,680 Speaker 1: it felt very authentic. And then the second reaction was, 138 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: oh no, and my gut just dropped because I realized 139 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 1: that this was going to be somehow conflict. And she 140 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 1: was very happy. I talked to her about her hair. 141 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:19,839 Speaker 1: I said it looked beautiful all these things, and then 142 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 1: Marty came home and he took a look at her 143 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:27,960 Speaker 1: in silence and gestured for her to go upstairs with him, 144 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 1: and she came back down by herself maybe twenty minutes later, 145 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:39,200 Speaker 1: with a scarf covering her hair, and she kept that 146 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 1: scarf on her head until her hair was long enough 147 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 1: to pull it back again into a bun. 148 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 2: If Ever, a hairstyle is a metaphor. 149 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:55,679 Speaker 1: Yes, very much so. And the message I received as 150 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 1: a kid was don't be yourself. 151 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:04,680 Speaker 2: After Carmen and her family moved to New Hampshire, her 152 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 2: mother and her stepdad, Marty, have four kids together, all 153 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:13,320 Speaker 2: girls in quick succession. Carmen's mother is a mercurial woman. 154 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 2: She's incredibly loving and caring, but she also has a 155 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 2: real temper. Her rage just seems to ignite and explode 156 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:25,200 Speaker 2: at the slightest provocation. At one point, Carmen and her 157 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 2: brother Alex even call her Dragon Lady. 158 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 1: I really worked hard and over the years to see 159 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 1: my mother as not a villain, to really humanize her, 160 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:47,680 Speaker 1: because for decades I was sincerely angry at the i'll 161 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 1: say it trauma and abuse that we endured and the 162 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,960 Speaker 1: role that she put me in as essentially a mother. 163 00:10:55,160 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 1: I was parentified or parentified, so I became a parent. 164 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 1: I was also taking care of her and Marty psychologically 165 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:07,200 Speaker 1: and in many ways, and I really resented that, so 166 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 1: it was very, very difficult. My mother wasn't the most 167 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 1: affectionate person and loving person. She was very much about 168 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:18,079 Speaker 1: do as I say, you know, keep your head down, 169 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 1: don't cry, don't be angry, don't have emotions, that sort 170 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 1: of thing. Don't rattle me. So it was a lot 171 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:28,040 Speaker 1: of walking on eggshells. And it got worse because in 172 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 1: New Hampshire she was completely isolated from her family, from 173 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 1: her culture, from everything she knew, and her world simply 174 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:41,200 Speaker 1: consisted of that house and all those babies and Marty. 175 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:43,680 Speaker 1: And the trouble is is that my mother, as I 176 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:46,680 Speaker 1: got to know her, really examining her life and looking 177 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:53,359 Speaker 1: at her, she was incredibly ambitious, intelligent. I found boxes 178 00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 1: of her writing, which was pretty amazing for someone whose 179 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:03,560 Speaker 1: education stopped at fifteen. And she was frustrated that she 180 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:08,840 Speaker 1: was basically living her life through her reproductive organs, and 181 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:11,719 Speaker 1: she took it out on us. The dragon lady part 182 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 1: was as she pushed and pushed my brother and I 183 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 1: academically to our wits end, we also had to work 184 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:21,320 Speaker 1: as well. I was working twenty thirty hours a week 185 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:23,959 Speaker 1: in high school and get straight a's and take care 186 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 1: of the kids. All of these things. She pushed and 187 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 1: pushed yes, because of course immigrant parents they want the 188 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 1: best for you. But she also resented the freedom I 189 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 1: had to dream and plan and leave and live a life. 190 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 1: So I felt the brunt of that resentment often. Back then, 191 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 1: Here's the thing. You grew up with this kind of 192 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 1: a little embarrassing, boisterous, over the top, slick rick Chinese father, 193 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:57,679 Speaker 1: and then you go to New Hampshire where you have 194 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 1: this graduate school eduction. I hated, you know, Anglo father 195 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 1: who exposes you to cars and chopping wood and stock 196 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 1: market and all of these things that American culture says 197 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:14,079 Speaker 1: are the best things. Right. So I had this contrast, 198 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:17,839 Speaker 1: and I also wanted to be part of this new 199 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:22,120 Speaker 1: family where he and my mother had my four little sisters. 200 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 1: I didn't like feeling like I wasn't part of that. 201 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:30,280 Speaker 1: So I really tried to get close to Marty. You know, 202 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 1: his head was behind the Wall Street Journal, and I'd 203 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 1: ask him about, you know, the stock, what's the stock, 204 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:36,679 Speaker 1: and what's this? And it all served me great professionally, 205 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 1: but I always still felt on the outside. Moving to 206 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:47,679 Speaker 1: New Hampshire, we would drive back to New York at 207 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:50,440 Speaker 1: least four time career. I say, I joke, I say, 208 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:53,080 Speaker 1: it's like once a quarter. So once a quarter. Usually 209 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:55,320 Speaker 1: on holidays and long weekends, my mother would pile all 210 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 1: of us babies. Marty would stay home during school breaks 211 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 1: and pile us all in the van, the mini van, 212 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:05,560 Speaker 1: and go back down to the city Trall department and 213 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:08,640 Speaker 1: stay with our grandparents. And that's where we would see 214 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:11,840 Speaker 1: Poppy again. And his thing was is he would show up, 215 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:14,560 Speaker 1: you know, take us, of course again to Chinatown. But 216 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:16,160 Speaker 1: he would show up and he'd have like a wad 217 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 1: a roll of bills. If we were lucky, it was 218 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 1: a role which meant he was flush, you know, and 219 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 1: he would take off bills and be like you want one, 220 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 1: you want too, you know, and give us spending money 221 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 1: which would end up in my mother's pocket. But that's fine. 222 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 1: He had to take care of us somehow. But he 223 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 1: really showed us a whole other world and that kept up. 224 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 1: And I'm telling you, Chinatown for us was essentially home 225 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 1: for Poppy, even though he lived in other chinatowns. When 226 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 1: I was an adult, he lived in the Chinatown by 227 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 1: Sunset Park in Brooklyn. He really kept us close to 228 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 1: that identity. On purpose. 229 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 2: There's a lot Carmen doesn't know or understand about Poppy. 230 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 2: When Carmen is sixteen, her mother sits down on her 231 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:08,160 Speaker 2: bed one evening while she's studying. Her mother is holding 232 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 2: a crumpled Kleenex in her hand. She's been crying. Carmen's 233 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:15,400 Speaker 2: stomach is in knots because she knows something big is coming. 234 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 2: And then her mother says, your Poppy has been arrested. 235 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 1: I just couldn't believe it. I didn't understand it at all. 236 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 1: I mean, when you're sixteen, a teenager, and somebody says 237 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 1: a parent has been arrested, and you know it's very bad, 238 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 1: you have a feeling. It creates such a storm in 239 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 1: your brain. I didn't know how to comprehend what I 240 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 1: was hearing. And she made it worse by telling me 241 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:45,040 Speaker 1: that he had been picked up with my brother, who 242 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 1: had just graduated, the first in the family to finish 243 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 1: high school for Peasack and graduate from college. She just 244 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 1: graduated from Georgetown University. And he really was a When 245 00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 1: I talk about straight and narrow, this guy was straight edge, 246 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 1: as we used to say. And I felt so bad 247 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 1: for him, and thankfully they let him off, but my 248 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 1: mother told me he'd been arrested for transporting drugs. 249 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 2: Your brother, Alex had absolutely no idea what was going on. 250 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 2: He was just absolutely he was in the wrong place 251 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 2: at the wrong time, just being with Poppy. 252 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:22,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, poor Alex. Part of the reason why they let 253 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 1: him go so quickly was because the poor man boy, 254 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 1: I mean, he was only like twenty two twenty one, 255 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 1: was crying so much. He was so shaken up. He 256 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:36,040 Speaker 1: had no idea. Because the thing is is that we 257 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:41,040 Speaker 1: knew Poppy Wong as someone who made jewelry, costume jewelry 258 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:45,040 Speaker 1: that went to places like Macy's and Bloomingdale, you know, 259 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 1: all the earrings and bracelets and all that stuff. Basically 260 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 1: Chinese immigrant women would put the jewelry together. He would 261 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:55,560 Speaker 1: transport it in these boxes, and Alex and I always got, 262 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 1: you know, the extra stuff, like I loved, I got 263 00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:01,920 Speaker 1: boxes of extra jewelry. My brother didn't know that underneath 264 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:08,240 Speaker 1: that jewelry sometimes were drugs. And he had absolutely no idea. 265 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:10,879 Speaker 1: And Poppy was like, oh, go, you know, go on 266 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 1: and run with me. I have to go drop something 267 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 1: off before we have dinner. And my brother was like. 268 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 3: Oh, okay, And thank god he got out, but it 269 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 3: was devastating for us, not just because we then couldn't 270 00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 3: see Pobby for years because he was convicted, but because 271 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 3: he had been the source of money to support my 272 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:31,639 Speaker 3: brother and I. 273 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:38,119 Speaker 1: Marty was not supporting Alex and I, and I was 274 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:40,800 Speaker 1: heading to college myself, and all of a sudden, I 275 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:46,600 Speaker 1: had no money. Marty was not supporting my brother and 276 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 1: I at all. Besides, we were living in the same house. 277 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 1: We had our bedrooms, we had food to eat, that 278 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:59,399 Speaker 1: sort of thing, anything like clothes, school tuition, any of 279 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:03,680 Speaker 1: that stuff came from Poppy. So I asked my mother 280 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:08,080 Speaker 1: why you know we lived in the house with him, like, 281 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:11,159 Speaker 1: and they were divorced, and I was curious. And I 282 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:13,680 Speaker 1: don't know why I felt entitled to it, frankly as 283 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:17,119 Speaker 1: a stepfather, but I think as a kid, I just assumed, well, 284 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:19,280 Speaker 1: you know, I call you dad now, and you know 285 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:23,040 Speaker 1: we're here. Help us out. What my mother said that 286 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:27,960 Speaker 1: Marty had no responsibility for my brother and I, and 287 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:31,960 Speaker 1: she wouldn't let him have responsibility for us. It was 288 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 1: just Poppy. So when he was put away, all of 289 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 1: a sudden, I was completely supporting myself. From the age 290 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:39,640 Speaker 1: of sixteen. 291 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 2: We'll be right back in a couple of years. Carmen 292 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 2: goes off to college and the situation with Marty becomes 293 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 2: even more tenuous. He loses his job, doesn't find a 294 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 2: new one for many years, and eventually he and Carmen's 295 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 2: mother divorce. 296 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:07,920 Speaker 1: Things were getting really bad at home between my mother 297 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 1: and Marty, and it was severely affecting my younger sisters. 298 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 1: I really felt for them, and we would talk sometimes 299 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:18,440 Speaker 1: late at night on the phone and say, oh my gosh, 300 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:21,679 Speaker 1: if we could only adopt them, take them out of 301 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:25,679 Speaker 1: the house and adopt them, because the anger in that 302 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 1: house was so toxic. My mother kind of went free 303 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:31,959 Speaker 1: on her own way and started traveling and being her 304 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 1: own person and all that, and Marty kind of went downhill. 305 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:40,640 Speaker 1: We had been very close, and it wasn't as good 306 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:42,240 Speaker 1: as I would have liked it to be, but we 307 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:45,760 Speaker 1: kept talking. Of course, he was, you know, my stepdad, 308 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:51,440 Speaker 1: my dad, and my sister's dad. Hobby was incarcerated for 309 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:55,159 Speaker 1: quite a few years, at least until my twenties. He 310 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 1: made it out to a halfway house for a couple 311 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:03,000 Speaker 1: of years and then and by my early twenties he 312 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:04,960 Speaker 1: was back in our life. And I was back to 313 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 1: living in the city after college, and he was back 314 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:09,879 Speaker 1: to calling me up and saying he's gonna take me 315 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:12,720 Speaker 1: to Chinatown, and he had oranges and frozen shrimp to 316 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 1: give to me and all these sort of things, wanting 317 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:18,639 Speaker 1: to connect. So as I became an adult, and I 318 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:23,160 Speaker 1: reconnected with Poppy once he was free and working again. 319 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 1: I was the only kid in the city. I was 320 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 1: the only one in the family who came back. My 321 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:33,800 Speaker 1: brother moved out to the suburbs with his wife and daughter, 322 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:36,719 Speaker 1: and it was up to me to be, you know, 323 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:41,680 Speaker 1: the devoted child and take care of our father and 324 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:44,120 Speaker 1: all of that, even though Alex came back and hung 325 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:46,160 Speaker 1: out with us quite a bit. But so I got 326 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:50,920 Speaker 1: to know Poppy more and more, and I spent a 327 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:53,359 Speaker 1: lot of time also with him and my brother together 328 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 1: and all three of us. And sometimes Pobby could be 329 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:01,679 Speaker 1: way too much to handle, way too you know, just 330 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:04,520 Speaker 1: like my mother, no boundaries, you know, whatsoever. And I 331 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:07,520 Speaker 1: just started to notice, or I started to look at 332 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:11,840 Speaker 1: him and look at my brother and not understand where 333 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:14,440 Speaker 1: I fit. I've always been super close to my brother, 334 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:17,360 Speaker 1: but he's always been more We call it chino Latino right, 335 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:21,199 Speaker 1: is when you're both Asian and Latino. So we were 336 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:23,119 Speaker 1: both Chino Latino, and I used to joke that he 337 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 1: was the Gino and I was the Latino Latina because 338 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 1: I was much more Dominican and he was much more Chinese. 339 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:34,639 Speaker 1: But I something was gnawing at me that I couldn't 340 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:38,159 Speaker 1: put my finger on that. I just felt somehow that 341 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:42,280 Speaker 1: there was a piece missing. I was looking for where 342 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:45,879 Speaker 1: Poppy lived in me. It wasn't that I was looking 343 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 1: for being Chinese. The culture was there, the ethnicity was there. 344 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:53,680 Speaker 1: I'm talking about like the human being of Peter, which 345 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:57,159 Speaker 1: was what his name was, Peter Wong. Where was he 346 00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:04,480 Speaker 1: in me? His attitude, his personality, his temper, his jokes, 347 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:07,199 Speaker 1: like all these sort of things. Where was it? And 348 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:09,520 Speaker 1: I couldn't find it? And that's where kind of the 349 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:13,359 Speaker 1: seed was planted that something was up. I was also 350 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 1: going through my own turmoil relationships and a divorce in 351 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 1: my twenties, and all these things happening. I had just 352 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:25,359 Speaker 1: been through awful, devastating divorce or a starter marriage, as 353 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:29,159 Speaker 1: I call it. To a upwardly mobile Latino gentleman, we 354 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 1: matched on that upwardly mobile thing, and unfortunately that was 355 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 1: all we had in comment. But I was heartbroken. But 356 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 1: I was on my own. I had my own apartment 357 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:40,479 Speaker 1: in Washington Heights. I was going to graduate school at 358 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:43,679 Speaker 1: Columbia University Teachers College, which is something I'd always dreamed of. 359 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 2: During this time, already dealing with so much tumult and 360 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:54,919 Speaker 2: emotional difficulty, Carmen gets a call from her brother Alex, 361 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:59,119 Speaker 2: which brings forth even more. He says he has something 362 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 2: very important to tell her. Their mother has joined an 363 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:07,920 Speaker 2: evangelical church. In her conversion process, she's been told she 364 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:11,639 Speaker 2: must share her sins, so she tells Alex that she 365 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:15,600 Speaker 2: had had three abortions, two before Carmen was born and 366 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:16,320 Speaker 2: one after. 367 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 1: My brother and I were We were just shocked and 368 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:22,439 Speaker 1: we were just like, well, what does this mean? What 369 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,720 Speaker 1: does this mean? And something went click in my head 370 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:29,840 Speaker 1: and I said, Oh my god, why was she having 371 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:34,000 Speaker 1: these abortions? She must have been having an affair. And 372 00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 1: my brother's like, oh no, no, you know no, she 373 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 1: wouldn't have done that. She wouldn't have done that. And 374 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:40,760 Speaker 1: I couldn't get out of my head the idea that 375 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 1: there was something she was hiding and that she had 376 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:45,200 Speaker 1: been having an affair. I didn't know what it meant 377 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,160 Speaker 1: at the time. I didn't. I just knew that something 378 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,680 Speaker 1: had happened for her to do something like that, very drastic. 379 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:55,520 Speaker 2: And how did that knowledge sit with you? You know 380 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 2: that feeling that we sometimes have of knowing something but 381 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:00,480 Speaker 2: not knowing it. 382 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:06,520 Speaker 1: Yes, the feeling of knowing something and not knowing it 383 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 1: is probably one of the most common feelings I've had 384 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 1: most of my life. Because if you grow up with 385 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 1: parents who are quite to use a non technical narcissistic right, 386 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:22,120 Speaker 1: you don't necessarily get to know yourself. Really, it's all 387 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:26,880 Speaker 1: kind of buried in there because you're performing to please 388 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:30,399 Speaker 1: your parents and to keep things copaesetic in the house. 389 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 1: But this feeling was there, and I knew it because 390 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,199 Speaker 1: it was familiar, and it didn't sit well because I 391 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:40,640 Speaker 1: was in the middle of a really tumultuous but also 392 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 1: time of self discovery. There I was in Washington Heights again, 393 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 1: living amongst the people I had known when I was 394 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:54,400 Speaker 1: a child. Is a Dominican community, and I felt very 395 00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:58,679 Speaker 1: held in this community. It was a bit of nostalgia, 396 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:02,119 Speaker 1: but it was also comfort. We looked after each other. 397 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,960 Speaker 1: I knew that people were looking after me and watching me, 398 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:06,760 Speaker 1: you know, when I would leave and come back and 399 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:08,880 Speaker 1: make sure I was okay, that sort of thing. Because 400 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 1: I live by myself. It felt good. And then I 401 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:13,879 Speaker 1: was back at Columbia, which we walked by all the 402 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:15,600 Speaker 1: time when I was a kid. So all these things 403 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 1: were reconnecting. But there was this big hole, and I 404 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:25,359 Speaker 1: just look, there was a reason why I went into 405 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 1: media and journalism. I always want to find things out always, 406 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:33,399 Speaker 1: so I really felt this kind of urge building that 407 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:37,639 Speaker 1: I had to figure things out. I hadn't spoken to 408 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:45,160 Speaker 1: my mother in two years because I couldn't. I couldn't 409 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:51,200 Speaker 1: be sane. I was already, you know, very distraught having 410 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:54,600 Speaker 1: been divorced and kind of all these feeling like a failure. 411 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 1: And I'm going to graduate school but the stress of 412 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 1: money is just absolutely incredible, and I'm drowning under student 413 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:03,680 Speaker 1: loan debt and I have rent to pay, and I'm 414 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,480 Speaker 1: on my own and by myself, and so it was 415 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:12,120 Speaker 1: very distressing time, and she just would not let me breathe. 416 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:16,920 Speaker 1: Everything I did was wrong, everything the divorce was wrong. 417 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:18,640 Speaker 1: The way I answered the phone was wrong, the way 418 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:22,520 Speaker 1: I dressed is wrong. It was relentless. My phone would ring, 419 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:24,879 Speaker 1: and then you know, her voice was like a hiss, 420 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 1: and it was what are you doing? And why haven't 421 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:30,040 Speaker 1: you done this? And why don't you do this? But 422 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:32,040 Speaker 1: she wanted to come over, and she wanted me to 423 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:35,119 Speaker 1: take her out to eat and go shopping and all 424 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:37,560 Speaker 1: of these things, and I just couldn't breathe. So I 425 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,800 Speaker 1: had to be away from her for a while and 426 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:42,240 Speaker 1: not communicate with her for a while. 427 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 2: And then another phone call, this time it's Carmen's sister 428 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:50,639 Speaker 2: with more news about their mother. 429 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:54,639 Speaker 1: One day, I'm coming home. I ended up in a 430 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 1: job in media after graduate school, and I'm coming home 431 00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 1: from a business trip in Boston, and my phone rings 432 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,080 Speaker 1: and it's one of my sisters, who doesn't talk very 433 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:06,679 Speaker 1: much to all of us, and she said, Mom's in 434 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:10,199 Speaker 1: the hospital, in the emergency room. She has stage four cancer. 435 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 1: And I find out that, you know the reason, she 436 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,159 Speaker 1: was riddled with tumors. I mean, you could see them 437 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,440 Speaker 1: if you took off her clothes, and none of us 438 00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:24,680 Speaker 1: saw her kind of wasting away slowly because she had 439 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:29,320 Speaker 1: been layering clothes on herself and we just couldn't see anything. 440 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:32,399 Speaker 1: They gave her two months to live, and I went 441 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,240 Speaker 1: into reporter mode, which I was at the time, and 442 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:38,160 Speaker 1: got her in a drug trial for gleevic actually, which 443 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 1: is incredibly successful, and she lived her a while. I 444 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,880 Speaker 1: wanted to help my mother, of course, because I still 445 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,040 Speaker 1: loved her, just because I wasn't talking to her. And 446 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:51,680 Speaker 1: you know, it doesn't mean you know, you love your 447 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:55,160 Speaker 1: parents even if they're really traumatic. But I really went 448 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,479 Speaker 1: into reporter mode to try to give her more time 449 00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:03,920 Speaker 1: because she was my sister's mother, my four younger sisters. 450 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:06,520 Speaker 1: Though our relationship was contentious because I had to be 451 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,159 Speaker 1: a parent when I was a child myself, and you know, 452 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 1: children don't make very good parents. I loved them with 453 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,399 Speaker 1: all my heart at the time, and they were in 454 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:19,240 Speaker 1: so much pain and I did not want them to 455 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 1: have their mother die. 456 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 2: And then another phone call, this time it's Marty. 457 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,880 Speaker 1: The next phone call that changed my world was soon 458 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:36,400 Speaker 1: after the diagnosis, my stepfather, Marty called me and said 459 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,240 Speaker 1: he desperately needed to talk to me. And it certainly 460 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 1: felt like these weird dominoes of life falling, you know, 461 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 1: one after the other, which is funny, you know, Dominicans 462 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:46,760 Speaker 1: love dominoes, we love it. So it was one after 463 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 1: the other after the other, and come to find out 464 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,320 Speaker 1: that Marty had a girlfriend at the time who was 465 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 1: working at the local university he was in Rhode Island, 466 00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 1: who said to him, you cannot let Carmen's mother die 467 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:05,200 Speaker 1: without Carmen knowing the truth. And so he told me 468 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:14,040 Speaker 1: that Poppy Wang was not my father. So Marty not 469 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:17,160 Speaker 1: only tells me that Poppy was not my father, which 470 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:22,480 Speaker 1: is the way he, you know, started this reveal, but 471 00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:28,240 Speaker 1: actually he didn't even say I'm your father. I was 472 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:34,719 Speaker 1: the one who said, so, who's my father? And I 473 00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 1: was already crying. I was crying, like really just bawling 474 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:43,080 Speaker 1: instantly at the news, and he just nodded his head. 475 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,920 Speaker 1: He couldn't say it. He just nodded his head, and 476 00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:49,920 Speaker 1: I said, it's you. It's been you this whole time. 477 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 1: I tell you, there is no pain like that. It's 478 00:29:56,080 --> 00:30:00,719 Speaker 1: just such a very specific pain to be liked in 479 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:05,320 Speaker 1: that way, especially when I lived under the same roof 480 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:10,160 Speaker 1: as this man from the time I was five years old. 481 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:16,800 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and it reshuffles and changes all of the 482 00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:22,720 Speaker 2: relationships instantly. He was your father, not your stepfather. The 483 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:24,880 Speaker 2: daughters that he had with your mother are your sisters. 484 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:28,560 Speaker 2: Not your half sisters. This means that Alex is your 485 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 2: half brother, not your full brother. But more than anything, 486 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:36,080 Speaker 2: that the knowledge that they held both your mother and 487 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:41,600 Speaker 2: Marty and didn't feel that you had a right to 488 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:42,520 Speaker 2: know or a need to know. 489 00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:47,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the pain so layered. Of course, you know, 490 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:52,040 Speaker 1: it was kind of losing in a sense my brother 491 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,160 Speaker 1: even though I hadn't, but I always felt I was 492 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:58,840 Speaker 1: one hundred percent his sister. We were We called each 493 00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:01,160 Speaker 1: other the Wonder twins, you know, we were that close 494 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:05,960 Speaker 1: and always were that close. And then it supposedly made 495 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 1: me full siblings with my sisters. But I tell you 496 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:15,040 Speaker 1: the two greatest pains were one, the loss in terms 497 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 1: of being racially Chinese, because of course there's race and 498 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:25,080 Speaker 1: there's culture. I may not be biologically Chinese, but I 499 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:28,440 Speaker 1: will always be a Wong always, it's how I was raised. 500 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:32,120 Speaker 1: But it still felt like a cleaving, like a real 501 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:36,240 Speaker 1: kind of cutting out of a piece of me, a community, 502 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:42,640 Speaker 1: a history, a legacy that was enormous. So that was 503 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:47,000 Speaker 1: an incredible pain. And then two, to know that your 504 00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:52,160 Speaker 1: parents have kept such a lie when I had wanted 505 00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:55,640 Speaker 1: so bad as a child to be accepted into this 506 00:31:55,720 --> 00:32:00,440 Speaker 1: new family that my mother had with Marty. I wanted 507 00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:03,720 Speaker 1: so badly to be one of those four girls that 508 00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:06,320 Speaker 1: hurt like nothing else. 509 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 2: We'll be back in a moment with more family secrets. 510 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 2: So after not speaking to or seeing her mother for 511 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:31,959 Speaker 2: two years, Carmen drives up to New Hampshire, where her 512 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:35,160 Speaker 2: mother's living in an apartment. Two of her younger sisters 513 00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:38,040 Speaker 2: meet her there. This is the first time Carmen has 514 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:41,520 Speaker 2: seen her mother since the cancer diagnosis, and she's stunned 515 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:45,880 Speaker 2: by the transformation. Her mother is very sick, wasting away. 516 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:49,520 Speaker 2: This is painful for Carmen to see, of course, but 517 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:53,000 Speaker 2: she's on a mission. She's here to find out the truth. 518 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:57,320 Speaker 1: We all sat there at the big table, which was 519 00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:00,520 Speaker 1: our former dining table in the house, and I am sure 520 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:02,560 Speaker 1: that she brought to the apartment and the chairs and 521 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:05,720 Speaker 1: I sat at the head of the table, which was 522 00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:09,640 Speaker 1: a bit symbolic, but I did it on purpose and 523 00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:14,320 Speaker 1: just asked her flat out, or told her flat out 524 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:18,200 Speaker 1: what Marty had told me. And I told her to 525 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:21,680 Speaker 1: tell me the truth about what had happened. I was 526 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:26,200 Speaker 1: thirty one years old, and up until that point, you know, 527 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:29,920 Speaker 1: had been Poppy Wong's daughter. And had thought I knew 528 00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:34,040 Speaker 1: where I came from and my mother's story, and she 529 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,280 Speaker 1: of course burst out crying. It was very angry, very angry, 530 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:39,920 Speaker 1: which was a normal response, by the way, for my 531 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 1: mother for things that she didn't have control over. It 532 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:45,560 Speaker 1: was anger. She said, this was for me to tell, 533 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,280 Speaker 1: not for him to tell. This was for me to tell. 534 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:50,000 Speaker 1: And I just waved it away because look at that 535 00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:51,000 Speaker 1: wasn't the issue. 536 00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:52,120 Speaker 2: This hit her. 537 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,880 Speaker 1: I don't care whose it was to tell. You had 538 00:33:56,200 --> 00:34:00,720 Speaker 1: thirty one years to tell me, and you did, and 539 00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:03,880 Speaker 1: now you are terminally ill. When were you going to 540 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:07,880 Speaker 1: tell me? So again? Because I was the parent, I 541 00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,319 Speaker 1: was interrogating her as if she was a teenager, you know, 542 00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:13,520 Speaker 1: tell me what really happened. And she told me a story. 543 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:16,919 Speaker 1: I mean, she went off on different tangents of how 544 00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:18,920 Speaker 1: Marty had sent her all these love letters and how 545 00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:23,200 Speaker 1: when I was born, supposedly I was another abortion planned 546 00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,320 Speaker 1: and the day of the abortion, Poppy Wong was the 547 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:28,680 Speaker 1: one who said, no, don't you know you're still married 548 00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:31,040 Speaker 1: to me. This is my baby. I'll take care of 549 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:34,799 Speaker 1: this baby. Don't do it. And that's the story of 550 00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,600 Speaker 1: how I became a Wong and why she wouldn't let 551 00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:40,600 Speaker 1: Marty lay claim to me. She told me that Marty 552 00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:43,040 Speaker 1: had wanted me abort it, and that's why Marty was 553 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:46,120 Speaker 1: not allowed to be my father. And then, you know, 554 00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:48,480 Speaker 1: she embellished a lot of all the drama and the 555 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:50,840 Speaker 1: letters Marty sent her, and she ran to the Dominican 556 00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:55,200 Speaker 1: public with me as a baby. And it was very dramatic. 557 00:34:56,239 --> 00:35:00,040 Speaker 2: Was her implication that Poppy knew no. 558 00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:07,840 Speaker 1: She insisted that Poppy said I was his. She would 559 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:14,520 Speaker 1: not elaborate on did he know I wasn't. And even 560 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:17,439 Speaker 1: after I found all this out, the person I sat 561 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:21,759 Speaker 1: down with first was my brother. I sat down with 562 00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:27,920 Speaker 1: in person, and he begged me to not tell Poppy 563 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:32,440 Speaker 1: because he was old and he had no family in 564 00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:35,640 Speaker 1: the city or in the states period. And we were it, 565 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:39,279 Speaker 1: He and I were it, and my brother begged me 566 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:40,640 Speaker 1: not to tell him, and I was, but you know, 567 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:43,880 Speaker 1: everything should be truthful, We should be truthful. No more secrets, 568 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:46,960 Speaker 1: blah blah blah. But I understood what he was asking me, 569 00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:50,920 Speaker 1: and I said that I would always revisit it if 570 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:53,560 Speaker 1: I'd changed my mind. But I really did it for 571 00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:57,799 Speaker 1: my brother, not so much for Poppy. And you know 572 00:35:57,840 --> 00:35:59,440 Speaker 1: that was important to me. 573 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:02,640 Speaker 2: And so has Poppy passed away? 574 00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:07,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, he passed away in June. I never told him. Yeah, 575 00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:09,120 Speaker 1: it was no point. 576 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:13,200 Speaker 2: Yeah. It's so interesting the way that in the annals 577 00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:16,640 Speaker 2: of secrecy and the different kinds of secrets, when we 578 00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:18,600 Speaker 2: discover a secret and then we're asked to keep a 579 00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:19,960 Speaker 2: secret about that secret. 580 00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:23,160 Speaker 1: Mm. And that's what I didn't want to do. I 581 00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:26,319 Speaker 1: didn't want to keep a secret about a secret. But 582 00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:31,120 Speaker 1: I really thought about why would I be telling him? 583 00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:34,120 Speaker 1: And that's what my brother, you know, wanted me to 584 00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:38,200 Speaker 1: think about, and like, what would it do for what purpose? 585 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:42,560 Speaker 1: And the difference between the secret about me is I 586 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,080 Speaker 1: said to my mother, you know, when I confronted her 587 00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:50,439 Speaker 1: about this, I said, the minute I was born, your 588 00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:56,960 Speaker 1: secret became a human being, a person, a full person. 589 00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:02,400 Speaker 1: It became mine. I owned it because I was literally it. 590 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:06,320 Speaker 1: Because she kept saying it was hers. It was hers 591 00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:08,440 Speaker 1: to say it was hers to keep. I said, no, 592 00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:12,400 Speaker 1: the minute I was born, it became mine because it 593 00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:16,160 Speaker 1: was my truth. I was a person, not a thing 594 00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:20,160 Speaker 1: or not something that you did. You had sex, that's 595 00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:25,120 Speaker 1: something you did. You got pregnant, that's the secret that's yours. 596 00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:28,600 Speaker 1: But a person, a human being, it's theirs. 597 00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:35,600 Speaker 2: Lupe lives longer than the doctors had anticipated, but eventually 598 00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:39,960 Speaker 2: the cancer takes hold and she passes away. In the aftermath, 599 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:43,720 Speaker 2: Carmen must reckon with her mother's death and the recent 600 00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:48,239 Speaker 2: discoveries about her paternity while continuing to live her life. 601 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:51,960 Speaker 2: She gets married again, she becomes a mother, her career 602 00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:54,560 Speaker 2: has taken off, and she has her own television show. 603 00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:59,240 Speaker 1: When something like this happens in your life, you really 604 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:03,040 Speaker 1: wish that you could just stop everything just to digest it. 605 00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:05,879 Speaker 1: But of course that couldn't happen to me. I could 606 00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:10,680 Speaker 1: not stop. I was an achievement machine, mostly because I 607 00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:14,000 Speaker 1: again supported myself. I had no safety net, so it 608 00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:16,359 Speaker 1: was work, work, work. I put my head down, and 609 00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:21,080 Speaker 1: I would say the biggest change, the biggest change, because 610 00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:24,080 Speaker 1: nothing changed with my relationship with Poppy. Nothing changed with 611 00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:26,960 Speaker 1: my relationship with my brother, If anything, you were closer 612 00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:32,800 Speaker 1: my sisters either. But with Marty, I think the hardest 613 00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:37,120 Speaker 1: thing for me to digest was the betrayal because I 614 00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:40,600 Speaker 1: had looked up to him so much. I had wanted 615 00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:45,680 Speaker 1: to be one of his daughters so badly, and I 616 00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:47,800 Speaker 1: would flash back to all those times when I was 617 00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:51,719 Speaker 1: a little girl, asking, you know, why can't I be adopted? 618 00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:54,000 Speaker 1: Why can't I have your last name, the last name 619 00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:56,480 Speaker 1: of the girls? Why can't I? You know? And I'm 620 00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:59,399 Speaker 1: really glad it never happened, I'll tell you. But when 621 00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:01,879 Speaker 1: you're a little kid and you're pulled out of your 622 00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:05,640 Speaker 1: whole environment and your family, everyone, my whole family, and 623 00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:09,200 Speaker 1: everything I knew was left behind, I wanted to belong 624 00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:13,120 Speaker 1: to something, and I had wanted to belong to his 625 00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:15,719 Speaker 1: family or to the family I lived with. So to 626 00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:19,919 Speaker 1: know that all that time he knew was just so devastating. 627 00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:25,640 Speaker 1: I just to this day, I I can't. I have 628 00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:28,800 Speaker 1: trouble wrapping my hands around it. And I was angry. 629 00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:36,719 Speaker 1: I was angry still am. 630 00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:36,920 Speaker 2: The story you tell about the first night that your 631 00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:41,560 Speaker 2: your show was aired and you ask Marty afterwards if 632 00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:43,440 Speaker 2: he had watched, Yes. 633 00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:47,319 Speaker 1: Which of course was finance. It was at CNBC. This 634 00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:52,239 Speaker 1: was a topic that Marty and I bonded on. And 635 00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:55,040 Speaker 1: this is like how some you know, kids talk sports 636 00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:58,800 Speaker 1: with their dad, right, talked finance and the market and 637 00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:02,400 Speaker 1: all those things. And so I called him. I had 638 00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:07,520 Speaker 1: just written, co produced, and hosted my own daily freaking 639 00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:10,640 Speaker 1: national TV show. It was a big deal, and I 640 00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:16,120 Speaker 1: called him and said, what'd you think? And the first 641 00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:18,640 Speaker 1: thing out of his mouth was, oh, I didn't know 642 00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:21,520 Speaker 1: you could do that, which I guess I took as 643 00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:23,360 Speaker 1: a compliment because I was like, well, I didn't know 644 00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:26,400 Speaker 1: I could do it either, but I did. And the 645 00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:28,359 Speaker 1: next thing was he said, yeah, but you know I 646 00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:33,840 Speaker 1: can't watch it. I said, why so it's too depressing. 647 00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:39,000 Speaker 1: It's too depressing because my show launched right in the 648 00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:44,480 Speaker 1: crash of two thousand and eight. And he said he 649 00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:49,120 Speaker 1: just couldn't watch it's too depressing. That hurt badly because 650 00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:51,799 Speaker 1: here's the thing in retrospect, you know, he couldn't put 651 00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:55,920 Speaker 1: his own feelings aside to be proud of his daughter 652 00:40:57,360 --> 00:40:59,839 Speaker 1: or his stepdaughter. I didn't matter. 653 00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:04,319 Speaker 2: Well, it's another version of retreating, you know, behind the 654 00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:05,120 Speaker 2: wall street journal. 655 00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:08,400 Speaker 1: I think what I realized, too, besides the pain that 656 00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:11,839 Speaker 1: I had that night, was our relationship was a one 657 00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:16,359 Speaker 1: way street. And my relationship with him and frankly with 658 00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:18,799 Speaker 1: my sisters. I realized I had always been a one 659 00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:23,840 Speaker 1: way street. It was always me wanting love and approval 660 00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:31,960 Speaker 1: and pride and you know, connection, and the only place 661 00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:35,080 Speaker 1: that I got that was my brother. My brother was 662 00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:38,560 Speaker 1: my biggest cheerleader. He had a Super Bowl party that 663 00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:40,960 Speaker 1: I just happened to go to his place that weekend, 664 00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:44,160 Speaker 1: not that I'm into that. I went, you know, with 665 00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:48,840 Speaker 1: my daughter because our daughters were so close, and before 666 00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:50,840 Speaker 1: the Super Bowl, he had to play my show for 667 00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:53,160 Speaker 1: everybody on the big screen to see, and he pointed 668 00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:55,320 Speaker 1: to me like that, that's my sister. That's my sister. 669 00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:59,000 Speaker 1: And it was everything to me because I did not 670 00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:03,560 Speaker 1: get that from anyone else in the family, and certainly 671 00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:08,480 Speaker 1: not my parents. 672 00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:13,799 Speaker 2: Flash forward to just two years ago, Carmen's biggest cheerleader, 673 00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:18,680 Speaker 2: her loving and supportive brother, Alex, becomes sick too. He's 674 00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:20,360 Speaker 2: diagnosed with terminal cancer. 675 00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:27,680 Speaker 1: Two months before my brother got a terminal cancer diagnosis. 676 00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:31,279 Speaker 1: We decided to do twenty three and Me and just 677 00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:34,000 Speaker 1: for fun. We're science geeks, and we also kind of 678 00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:36,560 Speaker 1: wanted to make sure that all these stories in the 679 00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:40,920 Speaker 1: family were true. I guess we wanted some validity to it. 680 00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:44,799 Speaker 1: And let's just say, taking twenty three and Me sent 681 00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:47,799 Speaker 1: me right back into a spiral because we all did 682 00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:54,120 Speaker 1: it together. And Marty was not my father either, which 683 00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:59,520 Speaker 1: was another big blow. My daughter was in middle school 684 00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:02,080 Speaker 1: and she was there. We were all facetiming each other, 685 00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:04,560 Speaker 1: the two families, my brother's family and me and my daughter, 686 00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:07,960 Speaker 1: and we were just because I was divorced again and 687 00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:10,040 Speaker 1: we've been on our own since she was four, and 688 00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:14,000 Speaker 1: we're sitting there on the screens, just going what is happening? 689 00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:18,920 Speaker 1: Looking at our results, and my daughter just says, oh, mommy, 690 00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:25,240 Speaker 1: your life is a telenovella. And it was so good 691 00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:29,360 Speaker 1: to have children there. In some ways, some people might think, like, 692 00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:31,800 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, you know what a scandal your children were. 693 00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:36,879 Speaker 1: It really grounds you when your kids are like, we're here, 694 00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:39,600 Speaker 1: it's gonna be okay, but this is wow. This is wild, 695 00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:42,200 Speaker 1: you know, and to see it through their eyes it 696 00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:45,480 Speaker 1: really took the edge off the pain. But it also, 697 00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:49,560 Speaker 1: you know, even when Marty said I was his, I 698 00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:52,080 Speaker 1: gotta tell you, that same thing in the gut that 699 00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:57,080 Speaker 1: we were talking about before with Poppy, that same feeling 700 00:43:57,160 --> 00:44:00,600 Speaker 1: of there's something wrong. I had that same feel the 701 00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:04,759 Speaker 1: whole fourteen fifteen years that supposedly Marty was my father. 702 00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:09,120 Speaker 1: It didn't sit right with me. I also didn't feel 703 00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:11,920 Speaker 1: like I was his. I didn't share things a lot 704 00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:15,319 Speaker 1: of things in common with him personality wise, or these 705 00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:17,480 Speaker 1: like my sisters did. And I didn't share a lot 706 00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:20,680 Speaker 1: with them either. I was just this little like moon 707 00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:24,520 Speaker 1: in orbit around the family. And there you go. Science 708 00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:28,280 Speaker 1: went ahead and made me realize I was completely sane, 709 00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:30,759 Speaker 1: and we really need to listen to our guts. But 710 00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:33,840 Speaker 1: two months after that, I was in Santo Domingo in 711 00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:37,520 Speaker 1: the Dominican Republic on a mission with my daughter to 712 00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:43,399 Speaker 1: connect with my mother's best friend in childhood who had 713 00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:47,280 Speaker 1: known a lot of these secrets and I had hoped 714 00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:49,920 Speaker 1: would be able to tell me things. And while I 715 00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:52,480 Speaker 1: was there, my sister in law called me from the 716 00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:58,160 Speaker 1: hospital that Alex had a very severe, non smoking lung cancer, 717 00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:04,320 Speaker 1: which ended up being an Asian gene. Speaking of genes 718 00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:07,160 Speaker 1: and science, they don't always do good things the good reveals, 719 00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:09,760 Speaker 1: and this one was bad. It was something's been happening 720 00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:12,080 Speaker 1: a lot in the Asian community lately. It's just kind 721 00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:15,880 Speaker 1: of lung cancer. And of course we flew home the 722 00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:17,200 Speaker 1: next day to be with him. 723 00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:23,120 Speaker 2: Even after he was sick, he was very keyed into 724 00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:27,040 Speaker 2: wanting to help you. Actually, you know, for once and 725 00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:28,960 Speaker 2: for all, get to the bottom of where do you 726 00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:30,200 Speaker 2: come from. 727 00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:35,320 Speaker 1: Yes, I think for him through all of his illness 728 00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:40,680 Speaker 1: and the chemotherapy, and we really bonded even closer because 729 00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:44,959 Speaker 1: we felt a clock ticking again, just as my mother 730 00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:47,600 Speaker 1: had cancer, and the clock was ticking, and that's why 731 00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:50,520 Speaker 1: I found the first reveal. His clock was ticking and 732 00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:54,200 Speaker 1: we needed to solve this mystery. So we dug into 733 00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:58,600 Speaker 1: old files. He contacted cousins, you know, he was bald 734 00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:01,440 Speaker 1: from chemo, and we but we flew down with our 735 00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:04,960 Speaker 1: daughters to Miami to see his godmother, who was friends 736 00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:08,480 Speaker 1: with our mother when she was that age, to see 737 00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:11,560 Speaker 1: if we could find any answers, which we didn't, but 738 00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:14,719 Speaker 1: it was a wonderful trip reconnecting with family and we 739 00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:16,440 Speaker 1: just Dug and Doug. We spent a lot of time 740 00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:20,239 Speaker 1: sitting at his desk at his home just trying to 741 00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:23,280 Speaker 1: figure things out and talking about family. It was definitely 742 00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:27,480 Speaker 1: we needed each other at that time. He needed everyone desperately, 743 00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:31,640 Speaker 1: and I needed him and I needed him not to go. 744 00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:40,960 Speaker 2: Were you able to discover in fact where you do 745 00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:43,560 Speaker 2: come from? While Alex was still living? 746 00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:48,319 Speaker 1: I was not able to find out the solution to 747 00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:53,920 Speaker 1: the mystery while Alex was alive on his deathbed, I 748 00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:55,759 Speaker 1: told him, because you know they say the last thing 749 00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:58,719 Speaker 1: to go is hearing. The day before he passed, I said, 750 00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:04,759 Speaker 1: you have got to go up there or wherever and 751 00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:09,799 Speaker 1: find mom and get it out of her. You've got 752 00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:12,560 Speaker 1: a shaker and get it out of her, and you 753 00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:15,160 Speaker 1: better come back, and you better tell me what's up. 754 00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:19,520 Speaker 1: You had better come back to me. But no, he 755 00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:25,480 Speaker 1: never knew. I did not discover after, by the way, 756 00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:30,440 Speaker 1: thousands of dollars hiring genealogists and detectives, and probably hundreds 757 00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:34,839 Speaker 1: of hours on my own trying to find this man, 758 00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:39,200 Speaker 1: and led down quite a few dead ends, but interesting ones, 759 00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:42,320 Speaker 1: which I call them the ghost fathers. Maybe it was 760 00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:44,920 Speaker 1: this one, maybe it was that one. And then I 761 00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:48,720 Speaker 1: was in edits on the book and I hadn't gone 762 00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:51,680 Speaker 1: to you know. I add a habit back then when 763 00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:56,120 Speaker 1: I first learned of refreshing twenty three knee ancestry and 764 00:47:56,239 --> 00:47:59,279 Speaker 1: jed match every single day, a couple times a day, 765 00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:01,680 Speaker 1: like I was playing a game, like a game show, 766 00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:03,960 Speaker 1: you know, or like whack a mole, like constantly, like 767 00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:06,920 Speaker 1: pressing and pressing and hoping someone would show up. The 768 00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:10,520 Speaker 1: purpose of the book wasn't so much to solve that mystery. 769 00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:13,640 Speaker 1: The purpose was to explore, you know, why and who 770 00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:18,200 Speaker 1: my mother was and why she would keep such a 771 00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:21,680 Speaker 1: thing and make such stories, and how it shaped me. 772 00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:25,279 Speaker 1: I was in edits and hadn't touched those sites in 773 00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:32,280 Speaker 1: probably three or four months, and I refreshed and book 774 00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:35,719 Speaker 1: there it was family. 775 00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:40,520 Speaker 2: There's a line in your book that I found so striking. 776 00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:45,719 Speaker 2: You wrote, I have three fathers, but not one whole one, 777 00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:53,560 Speaker 2: And that to me captures so much of what a discovery, 778 00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:57,359 Speaker 2: or in your case, a series of discoveries like this 779 00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:01,920 Speaker 2: one actually do, which is that there is a complete 780 00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:08,320 Speaker 2: picture at long last, but there isn't one whole human 781 00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:11,480 Speaker 2: being who you come from, because you really come from 782 00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:12,960 Speaker 2: from three, not one. 783 00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:19,000 Speaker 1: Yes, And you know, interestingly enough, each of them, all 784 00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:22,640 Speaker 1: three of them, gave me something which created me. And 785 00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:26,720 Speaker 1: that's what I find kind of fascinating. It's almost as if, 786 00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:30,759 Speaker 1: as painful as all this all is, there is a 787 00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:35,000 Speaker 1: bit of thank you to the universe. I guess that 788 00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:39,120 Speaker 1: each of them gave me something, and I think that's important. Though. 789 00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:44,080 Speaker 1: I'll also say, interestingly enough, I'd always felt, and I 790 00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:46,240 Speaker 1: said this to my brother a lot, I'd always felt 791 00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:51,839 Speaker 1: that I was one hundred Latina or Hispanic, and let's 792 00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:56,120 Speaker 1: just say I was right, but with a little different 793 00:49:56,160 --> 00:50:01,960 Speaker 1: origin than this hemisphere. It's another hemisphere but also considered Hispanic. 794 00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:05,720 Speaker 1: It's just really interesting how much when you look back, 795 00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:09,320 Speaker 1: your gut knows and I find that fascinating. 796 00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:14,440 Speaker 2: I do too, And it's such an important lesson in 797 00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:17,840 Speaker 2: in trusting that gut, even if even if it doesn't 798 00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:22,200 Speaker 2: make sense, Yes, because I don't think our guts are 799 00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:23,000 Speaker 2: really ever wrong. 800 00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:26,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's where I mentioned too. It's like I 801 00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:30,919 Speaker 1: always thought, you know, the truth will come out. If 802 00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:34,280 Speaker 1: it deals with another human being, it will come out. 803 00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:37,080 Speaker 1: And I have this saying it's like, you know, when 804 00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:39,480 Speaker 1: you bury the truth, you bury it alive. 805 00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:44,880 Speaker 2: I absolutely love that. There's much that's been written and 806 00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:47,400 Speaker 2: said about secrets, but when you bury the truth, you 807 00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:51,800 Speaker 2: bury it alive. Is such a vivid image and it 808 00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:53,719 Speaker 2: stays alive. It will come out. 809 00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:58,440 Speaker 1: It will, It gets noisy and it finds a way out. 810 00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:01,560 Speaker 1: So I don't bury anything. 811 00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:15,840 Speaker 2: Family Secrets is a production of iHeartRadio. Molly's Acre is 812 00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:19,000 Speaker 2: the story editor and Dylan Fagan is the executive producer. 813 00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:22,280 Speaker 2: If you have a family secret, you'd like to share. 814 00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:25,080 Speaker 2: Please leave us a voicemail and your story could appear 815 00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:28,520 Speaker 2: on an upcoming episode. Our number is one eight eight 816 00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:32,680 Speaker 2: eight Secret zero. That's the number zero. You can also 817 00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:37,680 Speaker 2: find me on Instagram at Danny Ryder and if you'd 818 00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:40,160 Speaker 2: like to know more about the story that inspired this podcast, 819 00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:42,440 Speaker 2: check out my memoir Inheritance. 820 00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:12,200 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 821 00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:14,360 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.