WEBVTT - How the Deep Web Works 0:00:00.880 --> 0:00:04.080 Welcome to you stuff you should know from house stuff 0:00:04.080 --> 0:00:12.440 Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 0:00:12.520 --> 0:00:17.120 Josh Clark, and there's Charles W Chuck Bryant. Yeah, howdye uh? 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:19.400 And that makes the stuff as you know. That's right 0:00:19.800 --> 0:00:23.400 minus Jerry. But with no that's right, we lose a 0:00:23.480 --> 0:00:28.280 Jerry gain anale. One step forward and another step forward. 0:00:29.360 --> 0:00:33.159 Oh where Jerry? You've just been wailing on it. Well, 0:00:33.200 --> 0:00:35.199 I'm not gonna say two steps back with Nol sit 0:00:35.280 --> 0:00:37.680 in five ft away, but it could be one and one. 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:40.720 One step forward with Noel, one step back for not 0:00:40.720 --> 0:00:43.920 having Jerry. You're saying it's a step forward not having 0:00:44.000 --> 0:00:47.320 Jerry and a step forward having Nol. I'm just trying 0:00:47.320 --> 0:00:53.000 to make everyone like me doing a poor job of it. 0:00:54.560 --> 0:00:57.080 You do a great job of it. Everybody loves the chuck, 0:00:57.480 --> 0:00:59.920 not everybody who doesn't. I have some mortal in it 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:03.640 means mortal enemies. Yeah, they want to kill trying to 0:01:03.680 --> 0:01:07.480 kill you know, we'll chuck. Yes, I will tell you 0:01:07.520 --> 0:01:11.600 what if they did want to kill you, they wanted 0:01:11.600 --> 0:01:14.360 to hire a hit many. Yeah, the deep web is 0:01:14.400 --> 0:01:17.800 a good place to start. Looking quite a segue. It's 0:01:18.040 --> 0:01:22.520 a while that one up unintentionally. Yeah, I spotted it 0:01:22.560 --> 0:01:25.080 and went after Yeah. This is about both the deep 0:01:25.160 --> 0:01:28.600 and dark web, which are two different things. The dark 0:01:28.640 --> 0:01:30.640 web is part of the deep web, thank you, But 0:01:30.680 --> 0:01:35.280 the deep web isn't necessarily dark a dark Yeah, that's 0:01:35.440 --> 0:01:37.880 very well put. The dark web is the nefarious things 0:01:37.880 --> 0:01:40.600 that go on in the deep web, and not necessarily 0:01:40.600 --> 0:01:44.280 a nefarious but the purposefully hidden. Yeah, because there are 0:01:44.319 --> 0:01:47.760 some good things in the dark web. I totally misspoke. Yeah, well, 0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:49.520 you know what. I think that it's great that you 0:01:49.560 --> 0:01:52.960 confess to it. You feel better, do Man. This is 0:01:53.000 --> 0:01:56.480 a really upfront kind of episode, isn't It's a very 0:01:56.480 --> 0:02:02.040 honest we're bearing it all man. Uh so, do you 0:02:02.080 --> 0:02:05.160 have a fancy intro story? No? You think I would? Right? 0:02:05.560 --> 0:02:09.280 My intro gets buried later on. It's a great intro, 0:02:09.400 --> 0:02:14.240 but it's just I'll use it as the intro. Okay, 0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:19.240 go ahead, okay, okay, Chuck. Yes, have you heard of 0:02:19.240 --> 0:02:23.360 our favorite band, Iron Maiden? Uh? Yeah, sure so. Iron 0:02:23.400 --> 0:02:27.880 Maiden is arguably the most awesome band of all time. 0:02:29.560 --> 0:02:32.400 Oh dude, all right, I'm not a huge fan, but 0:02:32.600 --> 0:02:35.359 you you wouldn't be, like I hate Iron Maiden. They 0:02:35.440 --> 0:02:37.519 suck of course not no, because it makes you crazy. 0:02:37.639 --> 0:02:40.160 It's right. Iron Maid has been around for a while. 0:02:40.480 --> 0:02:43.480 They're pretty smart. They know what they're doing. Um, and 0:02:43.680 --> 0:02:49.160 recently they figured out a way to maximize their touring 0:02:49.280 --> 0:02:53.280 dollars by flying their own plane. They well, Bruce Dickinson 0:02:53.320 --> 0:02:57.240 always did. He's he's a certified pilot. It's gotta be efficient. 0:02:57.760 --> 0:03:00.920 I would imagine plus fun all unless Bruce was partying 0:03:00.960 --> 0:03:02.720 too hard and then they got to fly to the 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:05.280 next city that night. He wouldn't do that, I hope not, 0:03:05.720 --> 0:03:09.880 because that's that's dangerous. I mean, driving drunk is bad enough, 0:03:09.919 --> 0:03:13.280 but flying drunk I can only imagine. Sure. Uh, and 0:03:13.320 --> 0:03:16.320 it's probably not just drunk, you know what I'm saying. No, no, no, 0:03:16.360 --> 0:03:20.360 he's he's straight. Has he always been? I don't know. 0:03:20.440 --> 0:03:23.400 I can't verify that. Well anyway, Um, Bruce and the 0:03:23.400 --> 0:03:27.520 boys uh figured out that a good way to figure 0:03:27.560 --> 0:03:30.960 out where to tour, where to decide to tour, um 0:03:31.160 --> 0:03:35.480 would be to figure out where their music was getting pirated. 0:03:35.520 --> 0:03:40.720 The most that sounds reasonable. It does sound reasonable. It's it. 0:03:40.720 --> 0:03:44.360 It provides you with evidence of an established fan base, 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:49.000 and a fan base that is unwilling to pay for 0:03:49.120 --> 0:03:53.280 your record, but would probably pay to see you live. 0:03:53.680 --> 0:03:58.080 How does that reason? Well, they like your music, but 0:03:58.120 --> 0:04:00.640 they don't want to pay for your CD, so why 0:04:00.640 --> 0:04:03.000 would they go see live and pay? Because it's different. Like, 0:04:03.080 --> 0:04:06.000 seeing a live show is way different than buying a CD. 0:04:06.040 --> 0:04:07.920 You can't you can't get a live show. You could 0:04:07.920 --> 0:04:09.600 get a video of a live show, it's still not 0:04:09.680 --> 0:04:12.000 the same experience. A live show is a live show. Plus, 0:04:12.440 --> 0:04:17.279 everybody always knows that anybody involved in the very entrenched 0:04:17.279 --> 0:04:20.880 in the old guard music industry does any band doesn't 0:04:20.920 --> 0:04:23.880 make any money on their records. They make it on touring. 0:04:24.320 --> 0:04:26.920 So going to see a band live also is kind 0:04:26.920 --> 0:04:30.640 of a true active fandom because you're really you're you're 0:04:30.720 --> 0:04:33.520 contributing directly to your band that you like. You know. 0:04:34.240 --> 0:04:36.080 Um So what they did was they hired a company 0:04:36.320 --> 0:04:40.720 to look at bit torrent sites and find the regions 0:04:40.760 --> 0:04:44.160 where their music was most pirate ID and they created 0:04:44.200 --> 0:04:46.360 a tour map from it and went and played those regions. 0:04:46.440 --> 0:04:49.120 Did you do you have the number one Iron Maiden 0:04:49.240 --> 0:04:55.200 pirated region? But we're gonna say Rio, all right, they're 0:04:55.279 --> 0:04:58.280 huge in South America. That's that's my guess we'll look 0:04:58.320 --> 0:05:01.320 it up afterwards, I guess. And so they were like, 0:05:01.520 --> 0:05:03.520 we're gonna start our tor and rio. Yeah, and it 0:05:03.560 --> 0:05:06.440 wasn't just that that one place, but it was basically 0:05:06.480 --> 0:05:09.680 a tour that was built on the areas where the 0:05:09.800 --> 0:05:11.919 music was most pirated. It was a Stroker genius. But 0:05:12.640 --> 0:05:16.880 they couldn't have done it without harvesting the deep web 0:05:17.640 --> 0:05:21.160 because bit torrent sites. When you search bit torrent, it 0:05:21.200 --> 0:05:25.600 doesn't the average search engine doesn't respond with a list 0:05:25.680 --> 0:05:28.919 of bit torrent activity. It'll just send you to a 0:05:28.960 --> 0:05:32.039 bit torrent site, which means that those pages of bit 0:05:32.080 --> 0:05:35.200 torrent activity, which are web pages and they do exist, 0:05:35.680 --> 0:05:38.440 they're part of what's called the deep web. That's right, 0:05:38.600 --> 0:05:41.880 the surface web as we know it, and search engines 0:05:41.920 --> 0:05:46.159 that we all use like Google and Bing supposedly only 0:05:46.200 --> 0:05:49.640 have access to about point zero three percent of what 0:05:49.800 --> 0:05:55.000 is truly on the world Wide Web. It's like scary 0:05:55.040 --> 0:05:59.479 and weird and thrilling all at the same time. Point yeah, 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:03.800 and anything else that's buried is the deep web. And 0:06:03.839 --> 0:06:08.640 it's not necessarily Uh, the deep web is not is 0:06:08.720 --> 0:06:10.760 not when you're purposely trying to hide things, it just 0:06:10.839 --> 0:06:15.680 may not be cataloged and index a password. Sure, maybe 0:06:16.360 --> 0:06:20.040 one of those timed sites that uh don't let you 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:23.200 access date after a certain amount of time. Could be 0:06:23.200 --> 0:06:27.720 anything with a caption involved, anything that's not hyperlinked. Uh, 0:06:27.800 --> 0:06:29.920 there's lots of reasons that something could find it so 0:06:30.080 --> 0:06:32.800 buried in the deep web. Right And and you make 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:35.640 a good point to separate the deep web and in 0:06:35.720 --> 0:06:37.200 dark web. So let me give you an example of 0:06:37.400 --> 0:06:41.000 deep web aside from those bit torrent sites. Um, there's 0:06:41.040 --> 0:06:43.440 this company called bright Planet and they had this they 0:06:43.560 --> 0:06:46.039 provide deep web harvesting, and they had this primer on 0:06:46.360 --> 0:06:48.159 you know what is the deep web. One of the 0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:51.480 examples they used was if you look up government grants 0:06:51.760 --> 0:06:55.440 on a traditional search engine, it will probably provide you 0:06:55.520 --> 0:06:58.919 with www dot grants dot gov as one of the 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:02.640 first returns. Right right up. Um, when you go on 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:05.440 to grant stock CoV, you can then search and find 0:07:05.600 --> 0:07:08.320 pages of all these different government grants. You can search 0:07:08.360 --> 0:07:11.200 by keyword, you can browse, but those pages aren't going 0:07:11.240 --> 0:07:14.280 to come up on your normal Google search. You have 0:07:14.360 --> 0:07:16.760 to go to the site, which means that those pages 0:07:16.800 --> 0:07:19.120 of the actual grants are part of the deep web. 0:07:20.160 --> 0:07:23.440 Your bank account, your checking account online if you have 0:07:23.640 --> 0:07:26.680 a mobile banking or online banking, it has a web 0:07:26.680 --> 0:07:30.840 page all to its own right now, And if I 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:34.960 searched Chuck Bryant's checking account, it would not come back. 0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:38.360 I would not get that because it's behind a password. 0:07:38.400 --> 0:07:41.320 It's a it's a website page. It's a web page, 0:07:41.640 --> 0:07:45.760 but it's password encrypted. Therefore it's part of the deep web. 0:07:46.000 --> 0:07:50.320 Twitter until it index tweets used to be you couldn't 0:07:50.320 --> 0:07:54.880 search tweets individual tweets. Now you can, so that made 0:07:54.920 --> 0:07:57.840 them formerly a part of the deep web. Actual tweets 0:07:58.240 --> 0:08:01.560 or every company on the planet has some sort of 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:07.680 internal employee pages like internal dot discovery that only we 0:08:07.720 --> 0:08:11.080 can access, and you can't Google search any of that stuff, 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:15.880 right or somebody could conceivably access it. Maybe it depends 0:08:15.920 --> 0:08:18.200 on the page, but you have to know the exact 0:08:18.320 --> 0:08:21.760 u r L. So the idea is, if it's blind, 0:08:22.560 --> 0:08:25.200 if search engines are blind to it, it's part of 0:08:25.200 --> 0:08:28.720 the deep web. If search engines can index it and 0:08:28.720 --> 0:08:33.280 bring it back as a return results search results, um, 0:08:33.320 --> 0:08:35.760 it's part of the surface web. Yeah, because that's all 0:08:35.760 --> 0:08:38.960 the search engine is doing. They are We might do 0:08:38.960 --> 0:08:41.600 a full podcast on search engines at some point. But 0:08:41.640 --> 0:08:44.400 the general thing is that there's an index of data, 0:08:44.880 --> 0:08:49.040 and they use spiders or crawlers because it is a web, 0:08:49.559 --> 0:08:54.040 to crawl around and locate domain names and hyperlinks and 0:08:54.160 --> 0:08:57.680 basically index all that in what they think will be 0:08:57.720 --> 0:09:00.880 most helpful to what you're looking for. Right, So, Chuck 0:09:00.880 --> 0:09:04.120 Bryant's bank account. There are some web pages out there 0:09:04.160 --> 0:09:09.280 that contain information related to that keyword search. So a 0:09:09.320 --> 0:09:12.680 search engine will keep an index with that keyword search 0:09:13.080 --> 0:09:16.800 with the u r l s, the locations, the page content, 0:09:16.960 --> 0:09:20.360 some of the page content, the meta tags or the metadata, 0:09:20.760 --> 0:09:27.080 and other very brief sketch information about those pages associated 0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:30.000 with the keyword for an index, which means that when 0:09:30.080 --> 0:09:34.280 you type in Chuck Bryant's bank account that sorry, I 0:09:34.440 --> 0:09:36.360 thought about it as I was saying it that last time. 0:09:36.600 --> 0:09:41.320 But when you type in UM Birds of Paradise bank account, 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:45.720 bank account, um, it will the search engine goes and 0:09:45.880 --> 0:09:48.960 accesses the index. It doesn't have to go all the 0:09:48.960 --> 0:09:51.520 way across every page on the web that it can find. 0:09:51.840 --> 0:09:55.079 It just goes to its indices, and that's how search 0:09:55.120 --> 0:09:57.560 results are returned so quickly. It's not going across the 0:09:57.559 --> 0:10:02.360 internet it's already got the spider crawlers, the bots doing 0:10:02.360 --> 0:10:05.480 that constantly. The search engine is just going to the 0:10:05.480 --> 0:10:08.800 index is that the bots have created from their searches. Yeah, 0:10:08.840 --> 0:10:10.920 and it is super shallow. I mean, we said point 0:10:11.000 --> 0:10:13.640 zero three percent. We do. We do our whole job 0:10:13.679 --> 0:10:17.679 as researching online mainly, and we run into this all 0:10:17.679 --> 0:10:20.600 the time where you feel like you're getting a very 0:10:20.640 --> 0:10:24.040 slim portion of what you're trying to find out because 0:10:24.160 --> 0:10:28.000 so many of the best uh, medical journals and things 0:10:28.040 --> 0:10:31.360 like this don't just pop up as you know, It's 0:10:31.600 --> 0:10:34.440 more likely to be some headline from scene and dot 0:10:34.440 --> 0:10:37.599 com and not like a Harvard Medical Journal paper that 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:39.640 could really help you out. Yeah. And I mean like 0:10:39.720 --> 0:10:44.480 you can get deeper and deeper with your keyword skills 0:10:44.480 --> 0:10:48.440 and your search skills, but for the most part that Yeah, 0:10:48.440 --> 0:10:50.880 the first returns of first results, depending on what you 0:10:50.960 --> 0:10:54.600 search for, are gonna be, like you said, superficial. Yeah. 0:10:54.600 --> 0:10:58.360 But even if you're super a super sleuth, a Google 0:10:58.440 --> 0:11:01.120 master like we all think we are, I mean, how 0:11:01.120 --> 0:11:04.199 can how much can that be bumping it up point one? Yeah. Well, 0:11:04.240 --> 0:11:06.120 a lot of the problem too, though, Chuck, is the 0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:10.959 so much of science is behind a paywall, really really 0:11:11.120 --> 0:11:14.640 really expensive paywalls to um, which is like, here's the 0:11:14.640 --> 0:11:17.480 first eight lines of this awesome medical research paper, exactly 0:11:17.480 --> 0:11:21.120 if you want it, give us. Yeah, which is a 0:11:21.160 --> 0:11:23.640 problem in and of itself, not necessarily related to this, 0:11:24.120 --> 0:11:28.400 but with current search engine technology, you have, like you said, 0:11:28.440 --> 0:11:33.360 a superficial result from a query um on the other 0:11:33.440 --> 0:11:35.240 end of the spectrum, and this is kind of what 0:11:35.320 --> 0:11:38.920 search instance are dealing with now. Um, the deeper you 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:41.360 go into the deep web. Again, the surface web is 0:11:41.559 --> 0:11:44.120 point zero three percent of all of the web pages 0:11:44.160 --> 0:11:47.280 on the entire Internet. So the further you go into it, 0:11:47.679 --> 0:11:50.480 the more data you have, and you eventually can run 0:11:50.480 --> 0:11:53.599 into the problem of what's called big data, which not 0:11:54.040 --> 0:11:57.160 capitalized B or D, which refers to like companies like 0:11:57.200 --> 0:12:01.720 Google and and that that can dig and harvest and 0:12:01.800 --> 0:12:05.080 maintain a large amount of data. Yes, just it's basically 0:12:05.320 --> 0:12:09.000 data that's so much and so unwieldy you can't even 0:12:09.520 --> 0:12:13.480 process and search it. It's like not even helpful. It's yeah, 0:12:13.480 --> 0:12:16.839 it's like a really bad Internet search. Yeah yeah. Um. 0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:22.240 So the the the current state of search engine design 0:12:22.600 --> 0:12:26.960 or creation is balancing that figuring out how to get 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:31.480 less superficial without running into the big data problem of 0:12:32.120 --> 0:12:37.000 incoherent data due to just massive amounts of returns. And 0:12:37.080 --> 0:12:39.840 you might think that these search engines do a great 0:12:39.880 --> 0:12:41.959 job because I can always find out what I need. 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:45.320 But you don't know what you're missing, you know, right, 0:12:45.400 --> 0:12:48.640 So it's it's sort of not even correct to say 0:12:48.679 --> 0:12:50.440 that I always find out what I need. Does you 0:12:50.480 --> 0:12:53.280 meanly know you need it because it's hidden? That's true, 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:57.200 And I mean you're you're missing quite a bit. Like, uh, okay, 0:12:57.240 --> 0:13:03.640 there's apparently fifty million registered domains on the Internet. Yeah, 0:13:03.679 --> 0:13:06.680 and that's I looked at like just in two thousand twelve, 0:13:06.679 --> 0:13:09.000 I think there're only like two hundred and fifty or something. 0:13:09.080 --> 0:13:10.920 I mean, it seems like it's doubled in the last 0:13:10.920 --> 0:13:14.240 couple of years, right, So there's five million domains for example, 0:13:14.240 --> 0:13:16.840 a lot of more garbage, yes, But how stuff Works 0:13:16.880 --> 0:13:20.360 dot Com is one domain. And I asked Tracy Wilson, 0:13:20.679 --> 0:13:23.600 who's the site director and runs stuff you missed in 0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:26.640 history class. It's one of the co hosts. How many 0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:31.360 pages there are how stuff Works? She said roughly at least, 0:13:32.440 --> 0:13:35.760 so one domain out of five fifty million has fifty 0:13:35.760 --> 0:13:39.200 thou pages itself. Right, so you kind of get an 0:13:39.240 --> 0:13:42.839 idea of the Scalpe deep web is anywhere from four 0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:46.600 hundred to five hundred times bigger than the surface web. 0:13:47.400 --> 0:13:49.640 And like you said, you don't know what you're missing 0:13:49.760 --> 0:13:51.839 because you don't know what's out there because your search 0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:55.240 returns aren't bringing you back anything. Yeah. I mean there's 0:13:55.240 --> 0:13:57.040 a lot of important stuff out there. We talked about 0:13:57.080 --> 0:14:02.520 medical papers. Um, apparently there's engineering database is financial financial information, 0:14:02.840 --> 0:14:06.760 a lot of things that could really help research. Uh, 0:14:06.840 --> 0:14:10.280 but you just can't find it, right, Um, unpublished blog 0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:16.800 posts just basically anything that a person creates on the Internet. Yeah, um, 0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:20.560 is if a page is created, it's part of the 0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:23.720 deep web. Yeah. Unless you take this stuff down, it's 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:27.480 living there forever, just gathering dust exactly. So Um, and 0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:32.880 it's not just necessarily engineering databases or medical information. Um, 0:14:32.920 --> 0:14:37.000 there's also a lot of shady stuff too. The dark web. 0:14:37.200 --> 0:14:39.440 That's the that's the dark web. Yeah, that is the 0:14:39.520 --> 0:14:44.440 dark web. Is when is um these sites intentionally uh 0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:47.240 reroute you. Well, we'll get to how they do it. 0:14:47.280 --> 0:14:51.960 But basically it's an it's an intentional anonymity. Um, it's 0:14:52.000 --> 0:14:53.560 not oh, it just happens to be buried on the 0:14:53.560 --> 0:14:55.840 deep web because it's not index it's it is purposely 0:14:55.880 --> 0:15:01.040 hidden from the surface web, so people can't try the 0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:06.720 person searching for something, or the the end uh website. 0:15:06.720 --> 0:15:10.920 I guess like those are all just private essentially, right, 0:15:11.200 --> 0:15:14.400 and privacy advocates are way into it. You're not necessarily 0:15:14.440 --> 0:15:17.600 a child pornographer, although there is that a lot of 0:15:17.640 --> 0:15:20.200 that kind of stuff on the dark web. Um, there's 0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:22.760 also a lot of good that happens on the dark web. Yeah. 0:15:22.840 --> 0:15:26.200 The the anonymity and privacy and the desire for it 0:15:26.320 --> 0:15:28.760 isn't in and of itself proof of wrongdoing, of course, 0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:32.240 not no, which is frequently it's frequently pointed out as that, 0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:34.680 but incorrectly. Yeah, I like, I don't want the n 0:15:34.760 --> 0:15:36.280 s A and my business people like, well, what are 0:15:36.280 --> 0:15:38.840 you doing right? Exactly nothing. Yeah, I just don't want 0:15:38.920 --> 0:15:42.600 them in my business. Yeah. Um, that's an answer. That's 0:15:42.720 --> 0:15:45.560 good enough. That answer is good enough. And for a 0:15:45.560 --> 0:15:48.040 lot of people, um, they say, well, then I need 0:15:48.080 --> 0:15:51.400 to go to the dark web to maintain anonymity, um 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:55.400 or higher hit man right to kill Chuck Bryant. That 0:15:55.480 --> 0:15:59.280 you could do? That's crazy. Um, you could do. There's 0:15:59.360 --> 0:16:01.320 a site for a while, Um, I don't know if 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:04.200 you've heard of it or not. It's called Silk Road, Yeah, 0:16:04.440 --> 0:16:07.080 which got shut down, and I teach Chuck, I know 0:16:07.160 --> 0:16:09.560 you've heard of it. It's like the most famous dark 0:16:09.600 --> 0:16:12.920 website of all time. Yeah. The the Feds busted Um 0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:16.760 Ross Olbrick, who may or may not be dread Pirate Roberts, 0:16:17.280 --> 0:16:19.560 which was the online name that they said he's the 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:22.960 guy running this, and he is now saying, actually that's 0:16:23.000 --> 0:16:26.720 not me, Um, but all those bitcoins are mine, So 0:16:27.040 --> 0:16:30.800 you can't seize those bitcoins. And there it's in courts now. 0:16:30.880 --> 0:16:34.240 They're trying to determine whether or not it's it counts 0:16:34.280 --> 0:16:37.320 as something that you can seize as an asset from 0:16:37.360 --> 0:16:39.440 a criminal. And they were saying that this is literally 0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:42.720 a case that no court has ever heard before. Yeah, 0:16:42.760 --> 0:16:48.760 they they it's never been questioned whether you could seize cryptocurrency. Yeah, 0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:51.160 and you should listen to our podcast on bitcoins by 0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:54.160 the way, from not too many months ago. But it's 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:57.160 essentially just yeah, encrypted digital currency. And they have a 0:16:57.240 --> 0:17:02.720 really really fascinating, circumstantial case against a brick Um not 0:17:02.880 --> 0:17:07.840 just for operating the silk road site. Um, that's where 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:09.640 you could buy drugs and things by the way, right, 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:12.000 which being the operator of that in and of itself 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:13.800 shouldn't be a crime. I'm sure that they would have 0:17:13.840 --> 0:17:16.440 prosecuted him for that if they'd been able to get 0:17:16.440 --> 0:17:19.760 their hands on him for just that. But apparently they 0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:23.680 also have him for at least two hired contract killings. 0:17:25.119 --> 0:17:30.919 One he he um I guess hired an undercover cop 0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:34.080 to do it, and the guy went to the person 0:17:34.119 --> 0:17:37.200 who he was taking the hit out on and said, 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:39.440 this guy's trying to kill you. I need you to cooperate, 0:17:39.960 --> 0:17:42.560 and I'm going to take pictures of you dead and 0:17:42.640 --> 0:17:45.400 send them to this guy. And Old Brick apparently gave 0:17:45.440 --> 0:17:48.879 him like forty grand up front another forty after he 0:17:48.920 --> 0:17:52.520 saw the photos. So like in bitcoins? No, I think 0:17:52.520 --> 0:17:55.160 in cash, although no, it would have been in bitcoins. 0:17:55.160 --> 0:17:57.639 You're right, yea, yeah, so who knows? It could have 0:17:57.680 --> 0:18:01.200 been two bitcoins at the time or five. Well. Silk 0:18:01.280 --> 0:18:04.840 Row two point oh launched in November. It's out and 0:18:05.000 --> 0:18:08.639 um there are other uh copycatters like the black market 0:18:08.720 --> 0:18:11.680 reloaded and um which that went down for a little 0:18:11.680 --> 0:18:13.720 while after Silk Road went down, but then it went 0:18:13.760 --> 0:18:15.680 back up. I think, yeah, like, I don't know. Man. 0:18:15.840 --> 0:18:17.760 I hate to say you shouldn't try and fight crime, 0:18:17.840 --> 0:18:20.920 but you're not going to stop this stuff when one, 0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:22.720 you know, you cut off the head of one and 0:18:22.760 --> 0:18:25.320 another grows right out of it in its place. You know, 0:18:26.080 --> 0:18:31.240 it's true if the structure that's allowing for the anonymity 0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:36.160 can remain intact, which is the dark web, right, But 0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:38.360 it's not just the dark web, it's like how you 0:18:38.600 --> 0:18:41.320 traverse the dark web, like using tour. Yeah, I guess 0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:44.520 we haven't explained. UM. The Onion Router t o R 0:18:44.880 --> 0:18:47.320 is what it's called, and it is software that you 0:18:47.440 --> 0:18:50.600 use to access the deep web and the dark Web 0:18:50.640 --> 0:18:55.040 if you choose to UM, and it searches for these 0:18:55.080 --> 0:18:57.800 anonymous sites for you like a search engine, but instead 0:18:57.840 --> 0:19:00.840 of dot com or dot org or net, they end 0:19:00.920 --> 0:19:03.600 in dot onion, right the idea and onion has many 0:19:03.640 --> 0:19:08.560 layers and UM that's that's how you access it through tour. 0:19:08.640 --> 0:19:13.360 You have to buy it install it on your computer. Yeah, 0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:17.320 Firefox had UM something that it was basically a tour bundle. 0:19:17.440 --> 0:19:19.440 It was the most popular one and you could download 0:19:19.480 --> 0:19:22.760 it for free. But it's not a web browser itself. 0:19:22.840 --> 0:19:25.239 It's like an add on to a web browser that 0:19:25.280 --> 0:19:29.320 allows anonymity, and it does two things. One, it bounces 0:19:29.359 --> 0:19:32.040 your trail all over the world from server to server, 0:19:32.160 --> 0:19:36.040 so it makes you and your activity extraordinarily difficult to track. 0:19:36.400 --> 0:19:38.480 It's not just like this computer went to this site. 0:19:39.040 --> 0:19:42.240 It's like, that's that whole Onion thing. There's so many layers. 0:19:42.240 --> 0:19:44.040 It's like we can't We don't know who this is 0:19:44.119 --> 0:19:46.000 or where they're, where they are, what they're doing, or 0:19:46.040 --> 0:19:48.560 anything like that. We just know right now that this 0:19:48.600 --> 0:19:51.920 particular person happens to be there's a user on Silk Road, 0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:54.119 but we don't know who it is or anything. You 0:19:54.119 --> 0:19:56.720 can't track them because they're using tour. The other thing 0:19:56.800 --> 0:19:59.960 is that you can't get into dot onion domain site 0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:03.960 dark websites unless you're using tour, Like they won't let 0:20:03.960 --> 0:20:07.320 you in unless you're an anonymous user. Um So tour 0:20:07.359 --> 0:20:10.360 has this kind of twofold thing. But there was recently 0:20:10.400 --> 0:20:12.439 a breach in it and it turned out the FBI 0:20:12.960 --> 0:20:16.920 was using malware to break through the anonymity of tour users. 0:20:17.320 --> 0:20:19.400 And yeah, and found out a lot of people on 0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:22.359 some sites that are that were hosted by something called 0:20:22.400 --> 0:20:27.000 Freedom Hosting, which apparently had a horrible reputation for being 0:20:27.359 --> 0:20:29.960 the repository on the web, on the dark web for 0:20:30.040 --> 0:20:34.240 child pornography and knowingly like basically just not doing anything 0:20:34.240 --> 0:20:40.800 about it. Um, So the FBI had a They hacked 0:20:41.600 --> 0:20:46.080 the Freedom Hosting servers and inserted this malware. So if 0:20:46.119 --> 0:20:48.159 you went to a Freedom Hosting site, any of them, 0:20:48.240 --> 0:20:50.960 not just necessarily a child pornography, but any site hosted 0:20:50.960 --> 0:20:53.560 by Freedom Hosting, which is like say go Daddy for 0:20:54.000 --> 0:20:58.760 the dark web, um, you would get this malware package 0:20:59.119 --> 0:21:04.879 that exploited a key hole in Firefox's tore bundle. It 0:21:04.960 --> 0:21:08.320 went into your computer, said hey, give me your mac address, 0:21:08.640 --> 0:21:13.919 which is basically like your computer hardware, like serial numbers 0:21:13.960 --> 0:21:18.119 your computers and your computers a loans tracking number, and 0:21:18.160 --> 0:21:21.000 then also tell me where the computer is, and it 0:21:21.119 --> 0:21:24.800 sent it back to a server, a mystery server in McLean, Virginia. 0:21:25.440 --> 0:21:27.840 And finally, after like a month, fb I was like, yeah, 0:21:27.840 --> 0:21:29.800 that was us. We got we have everybody who went 0:21:29.840 --> 0:21:33.360 on that site's name and address and everything on them. 0:21:33.560 --> 0:21:37.119 So that's done a huge ripple. And Firefox fixed this loophole, 0:21:37.560 --> 0:21:39.600 but it's done a huge ripple. Through you know, the 0:21:39.800 --> 0:21:43.480 dark web, deep web community saying like whoa, whoa. We 0:21:43.480 --> 0:21:47.680 were anonymous before, but you know now it's it's been 0:21:47.720 --> 0:21:52.400 shown definitively that the Feds can find out who we are. 0:21:52.520 --> 0:21:56.120 So the anonymity is reduced, if not taken away, which 0:21:56.160 --> 0:21:58.600 defeats the whole purpose. Yeah, so if you don't have that, 0:21:58.640 --> 0:22:00.880 then you can keep lop the heads off of these things, 0:22:00.960 --> 0:22:03.440 and they're not going to grow back because people are afraid. 0:22:03.800 --> 0:22:06.480 People will be afraid because they won't feel like they're 0:22:06.480 --> 0:22:10.639 anonymous any longer. Well, tour has a sort of an 0:22:10.640 --> 0:22:13.320 ironic background, which we will get to right after this 0:22:13.359 --> 0:22:22.240 message break. Alright, so we're back and we left you 0:22:22.320 --> 0:22:25.200 with the the nugget that tour has an interesting background, 0:22:25.960 --> 0:22:29.000 and the background of tours actually, the US Naval Research 0:22:29.080 --> 0:22:33.000 Laboratory in two thousand three launched this program for political 0:22:33.000 --> 0:22:36.600 dissidents and whistleblowers so they can get their message out 0:22:36.640 --> 0:22:39.359 without fear of proprisal. Right, and this is still a 0:22:39.480 --> 0:22:42.200 use of tour like the New York Times wiki leaks, 0:22:42.640 --> 0:22:48.280 some other news agencies have um tour sites that if 0:22:48.320 --> 0:22:50.400 you want to go and in contact the New York 0:22:50.440 --> 0:22:53.600 Times or wiki leaks anonymously, Like you can go to 0:22:53.640 --> 0:22:58.960 their tour, their onion site and um upload documents or say, hey, 0:22:58.760 --> 0:23:01.480 I have some informa I want to share and you 0:23:01.480 --> 0:23:04.440 can do it anonymously. So the government, though, is basically 0:23:04.520 --> 0:23:08.800 law enforcements trying to track down criminals using the software 0:23:08.840 --> 0:23:11.040 that the government created to begin with. So it's an 0:23:11.080 --> 0:23:16.840 interesting loop. Um, But like we said, it's not all badness. Um, 0:23:16.880 --> 0:23:20.760 if you live in a country where bad things are 0:23:20.760 --> 0:23:22.919 going on and you don't feel safe getting on the 0:23:22.960 --> 0:23:26.199