1 00:00:01,080 --> 00:00:04,520 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from how Stuff Works 2 00:00:04,559 --> 00:00:13,119 Speaker 1: dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh 3 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:16,360 Speaker 1: Clark with me as always as Charles W. Chuck Bryant 4 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:19,440 Speaker 1: as if you're surprised. Uh, and that makes this stuff 5 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 1: you should know, right, Chuck, Yes, we are here, Josh, 6 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:25,240 Speaker 1: and uh can we talk about prisons? Now? We can 7 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: talk about prisons. Remember in the Presidential Pardons episode, I 8 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: was talking about how people have been calling for President 9 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 1: Obama to reduced to basically issue a blanket pardon for 10 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:38,120 Speaker 1: people who are convicted under the mandatory minimums for crack 11 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 1: where there's a huge disparity, and I said it was 12 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:43,240 Speaker 1: like five to one. It's actually it was I think, um, 13 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:46,520 Speaker 1: a hundred and eighty to one disparity. Right, boy got 14 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: that one wrong, did well? He did it like pretty 15 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:53,639 Speaker 1: much as we were recording that he signed this law. 16 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 1: Congress was passing this law that reduced the mandatory minimum 17 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 1: and basically, in a effect, overturned the sentences of first 18 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:05,040 Speaker 1: time offenders who are convicted and we're given these five 19 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:08,560 Speaker 1: years and anybody who was convicted under the old mandatory 20 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:11,119 Speaker 1: minimum laws. So there's gonna be a lot of people 21 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:14,400 Speaker 1: coming out of prison looking for crack. Well, that's one 22 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:16,960 Speaker 1: argument that's not very fair to say. No, it's not. 23 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: But I mean, isn't that kind of the the way 24 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 1: that Americans and probably people in general view prisoners. It's like, 25 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 1: you did something wrong, so you deserve to be where 26 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:29,119 Speaker 1: you are. But that's without having any real concept of 27 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 1: what prison is like. I mean, I know I don't 28 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 1: want to be in prison. Have you ever seen the 29 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 1: movie An Innocent Man? Remember we talked about that Tom Selleck, 30 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 1: very scary scene. That was it for me. I was like, 31 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:45,760 Speaker 1: I don't ever want to go to prison ever. Um. 32 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 1: But that's about all I knew about it until we 33 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 1: started researching for this very robust podcast on how prison works. 34 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 1: So Chuck, um, I guess Apparently when this article was 35 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 1: written by Grabanowski, it was I think two thousand five 36 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 1: ish or that was the latest stats he had, and 37 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 1: it said he said that there were like more than 38 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 1: two million people in prison, right, and it's actually decreased. Yeah, 39 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:12,120 Speaker 1: I've got one point six million at the end of 40 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 1: oh nine. But when I look at these stats there, 41 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 1: they're all kinds of stats. Um. You know, one in 42 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 1: thirty one adults is in the correction system, but that 43 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 1: includes jail, prison, probation, and supervision. So they narrowed that 44 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 1: down to only in prison. One and every one hundred 45 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 1: Americans is in prison. I know. And that crazy. Did 46 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 1: you see what fair state topped the list for the 47 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 1: most number of adults in prison? That's right, Georgia, Georgia 48 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 1: one in thirteen people, one in thirteen adults, and Georgia's 49 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 1: in the correctional system. That's crazy. Yeah, we live in 50 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 1: a state of criminals. Either that or some like a 51 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 1: real police state, one of the two. Uh yeah, I'm 52 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:54,640 Speaker 1: not gonna comment on that, said, Chuck, we should probably 53 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 1: calm down. Let's settle down here. Let's talk about prison. 54 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 1: Prisons a deterrent, it the punishment, and it's hopefully there's 55 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:07,079 Speaker 1: increasingly it's becoming a place of reform and rehabilitation. We'll 56 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 1: talk about that a little bit um. But in the US, 57 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 1: there's pretty much three three types of security levels for prison, right, yeah, 58 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:20,520 Speaker 1: with one extra little added measure that we'll talk about. 59 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 1: It's a big extra though. Yeah, you got a minimum, 60 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 1: you got medium, and you've got of course everyone's favorite 61 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 1: maximum security prisons and uh minimums security prison were we're 62 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:34,680 Speaker 1: mainly going to cover maximum because that's really the most interesting. 63 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: Even though I think they said like only or in max, 64 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:41,560 Speaker 1: is that right? Well, according to the two thousand five stats, 65 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 1: but um, minimum is more like like a college campus 66 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 1: that kind of thing. It's like that weekend that you 67 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 1: did orientation at the college you eventually went to. I 68 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 1: would think that's like minimum security prison, right, uh, And 69 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 1: that's definitely non violent offenders with pretty clean criminal records, 70 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: or may be you've served time in a medium and 71 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 1: you were really good and they were like, yeah, let's 72 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 1: bump this dude down to maximum a minimum. Yeah, right, right, 73 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: then you've got medium, and that's the one that actually 74 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:14,200 Speaker 1: you you would see most um on like television shows 75 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 1: or something, people think that's maximum, But when you see 76 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:19,800 Speaker 1: prisoners able to like move around and play cards and 77 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 1: stuff like that, that's generally medium from what I understand. Right. Yeah, 78 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 1: they have like dorm room style accommodations a lot of 79 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:28,039 Speaker 1: times with you know, eight or ten guys to a room. 80 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:30,720 Speaker 1: Um and like you said, the little social day rooms 81 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:34,600 Speaker 1: where they hang out and trade cigarettes and like on oz. Yeah, 82 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 1: exactly do horrific things to one. We'll get to that too. Uh. 83 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:41,480 Speaker 1: And then of course the granddaddy of them all is 84 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:46,839 Speaker 1: the maximum security prison. These are the violent offenders, guys 85 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 1: that have escaped or tried to escape. We're gonna say 86 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 1: guys a lot. Yes, I think less than ten percent 87 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 1: of the prison population is female. So it's not like 88 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 1: we're not trying to give the ladies their due. We 89 00:04:56,800 --> 00:04:59,719 Speaker 1: know you can do awful things as well, so props 90 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 1: to you, but we're gonna say dudes a lot. Well, 91 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:06,719 Speaker 1: there's and then there's a subcategory that it was pretty rare. Um. 92 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:11,480 Speaker 1: That came about in nine three at the maximum security 93 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 1: prison in um Marion, Illinois I think not Juliet Marian 94 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:20,800 Speaker 1: right um. Two guards were murdered in two separate incidents 95 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:23,600 Speaker 1: on the same day and the prison went into lockdown, 96 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 1: which bad coincidence. Is that what they called it, and 97 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 1: that's what I call it. The prison went into lockdown, 98 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,039 Speaker 1: which is where you're in your cell all day, you 99 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:34,359 Speaker 1: can't move around, you can't do anything, you have no 100 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:37,919 Speaker 1: freedom of movement. Um. And it remained in that state 101 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 1: ever since. So it basically gave birth to the super 102 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 1: max prison, right uh. And since then a lot of 103 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 1: prisons have been opened as super max prisons during a 104 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 1: state of lockdown, And if it sounds a bit familiar, 105 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 1: basically the entire prison is a series of solitary confinements 106 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 1: there the whole. Yeah, they call it officially, it's called 107 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 1: Security Housing Unit and s h U, but everyone calls 108 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:03,040 Speaker 1: it the whole, just like in the movies. And as 109 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 1: far as prisons go, solitary confinement and then especially supermax 110 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 1: is extremely controversial, right. Um. Solitary confinement originally was created 111 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:16,159 Speaker 1: in eighteen thirty by a warden and a prison in 112 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:21,839 Speaker 1: Pennsylvania with the lofty goal of giving a convict nothing 113 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:25,040 Speaker 1: but time to contemplate what he'd done, the bad thing 114 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:27,920 Speaker 1: that he'd done. I think anything that was supposed in 115 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 1: eighteen thirty is a good way to punish people. You 116 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 1: might want to review that notion again here. And so, yeah, 117 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 1: they basically found out that actually these are they don't 118 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 1: sit around and think about all the bad they've done. 119 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:42,599 Speaker 1: They kind of go nuts, and not just kind of 120 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:45,840 Speaker 1: go nuts, They go clinically insane as anybody would, right, 121 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 1: or they go in sort of insane and they really 122 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 1: go off the deep ends. Right. Because prison has also 123 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 1: and still remains used to um, how is the mentally 124 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 1: ill at times, not as much or as overtly as before, 125 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:02,040 Speaker 1: but still you find the insane in prisons, right. Um. 126 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:05,160 Speaker 1: The other problem with a super max facility, besides the 127 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 1: fact that it amounts to torture, psychological or otherwise, is that, um, 128 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 1: these things, these places are reserved for the worst of 129 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 1: the worst, supposedly, and in any given state there's a 130 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 1: couple maybe of the worst of the worst. But a 131 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 1: super max prison may have a couple hundred cells. Yeah, 132 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 1: you gotta fill the cells somehow, so you have relatively 133 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 1: minor offenses or convicts, um going into super max prisons, 134 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 1: the killing themselves in a really horrible way. Yeah, this 135 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:38,640 Speaker 1: is a big build up in the nineties. I think 136 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 1: they said by the end of the decade and of 137 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 1: the nineties that um, thirty different states had a super 138 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:48,240 Speaker 1: max prison. Well, and you said that each state only 139 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 1: has a handful of dudes that even qualify. So, like 140 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 1: you said, they get put in there, they kind of 141 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 1: go through a zoocosis of sorts, like weird behavior like 142 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 1: the bears walking in circles. Um, except way way worse, way, 143 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 1: way worse. This one guy in Wisconsin, he was a 144 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 1: sixteen year old car thief. Another guy, twenty year old 145 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 1: David Tracy, hanged himself in a Virginia supermax and he 146 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 1: was nineteen and he had been there for two and 147 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:15,240 Speaker 1: a half years for selling drugs. No, he'd been there 148 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 1: for a year and he had a two and a 149 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 1: half year sentence and he still hung himself. He couldn't 150 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 1: even make it a year, Kim halfway into a two 151 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 1: and a half year sentence because he was immediately put 152 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 1: in solitary confinement. Um, and then it gets worse. Apparently, 153 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 1: UM people have um been known to swallow razor blades. 154 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 1: One guy uh In in Indiana super max prison choked 155 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:38,960 Speaker 1: himself to death with a washcloth, and another guy, twenty 156 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 1: one year old mentally ill prisoner in that same prison 157 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 1: set himself on fire and later died from those wounds. Yeah. 158 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 1: The good news, though, my friend, is that UM, a 159 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 1: lot of supermaxes have been downgraded since then, Like the 160 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 1: current trend is to downgrade your supermax to regular max. 161 00:08:57,520 --> 00:08:59,600 Speaker 1: So they're kind of getting the message a little bit 162 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 1: that we'd really don't need that to this many super 163 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:04,560 Speaker 1: max presents. Yeah, apparently the nineties were bad. Yeah, but 164 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:10,439 Speaker 1: there's only one federal supermax only one, which one a 165 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 1: d X in Florence, Colorado. A d X Florence. But 166 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 1: like you said, it's mostly on the state level. That's 167 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 1: for like the really really bad tax evaders. I imagine 168 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: a d X is not the kind of place you 169 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 1: want to take a tour. I wouldn't think that the 170 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 1: single federal supermax is not the kind of place you 171 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:58,560 Speaker 1: want to be. It's a chuck, You buddy, have just 172 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:03,560 Speaker 1: been popped, say, growing marijuana indoors, You're going to prison. 173 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 1: Let's come to terms with that, Okay, okay. Um, there's 174 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:13,560 Speaker 1: a couple of ways that you actually get to prison, right, yeah, 175 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:16,560 Speaker 1: and there as follows. You can take a taxi, which 176 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:18,960 Speaker 1: apparently is more routine than we would imagine. I had 177 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:21,920 Speaker 1: no idea. Um, you can be dropped off by a 178 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 1: friend or family member. That's what I would choose, as 179 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 1: in I think that's what Edward Norton. I'd have my 180 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 1: mom take me. Do you drop me off at prison? Right? Well? 181 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 1: And um, you can also take the prison bus. Right 182 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:37,880 Speaker 1: It's called the diesel to Diesel tour because they'll you know, 183 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 1: it's a prison bus. It's not like some luxury greyhound uh, 184 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:44,800 Speaker 1: bus liner. You know how nice as greyhounds are. Oh yeah, 185 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:47,680 Speaker 1: they're nice. It's not like that, you know that it's 186 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:50,559 Speaker 1: kind of cramped and nasty and smelly and it sounds 187 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 1: like a a locker room on wheels. Well not just that. 188 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 1: They you go take yourself to the sheriff's department and, um, 189 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 1: you know, curse your family member for not being like, really, 190 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:02,840 Speaker 1: couldn't just take me the rest of the way to 191 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:05,840 Speaker 1: the prison. Um. So you get to the sheriff's department 192 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:08,319 Speaker 1: and you basically just wait there for the prison bus 193 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 1: to come pick you up. And then you know, you 194 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 1: stop at sheriff's department, after Sheriff's department, after Sheriff's department. 195 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 1: That's the insulting part. Yeah, You're like, all right, can 196 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 1: I go to prison? Can I just start this please? 197 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 1: And they're like, well, we gotta make six stops from 198 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:21,480 Speaker 1: the way. Just hold on and the bus is going 199 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:23,720 Speaker 1: to break down in exactly a minute. We're gonna go 200 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 1: pick up your future boyfriend first, so chuck. You um, 201 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 1: finally get to prison, right, thank god, those cookies that 202 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:36,440 Speaker 1: your mom gave you have been taken away from you. 203 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:38,719 Speaker 1: I mean just immediately you didn't even get to eat one. 204 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:40,840 Speaker 1: They're chowing down on those, the guards are. And you 205 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 1: have a new moniker. You have a new name, a 206 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 1: new catch all name that describes you as a newly 207 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 1: inducted prisoner. You're a fish. Yeah, yeah, just like in 208 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:52,840 Speaker 1: the movies. You know a lot of this. I thought, 209 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:55,440 Speaker 1: that's just like in the movies. And it is just 210 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 1: like in the movies because they know a lot about prison. 211 00:11:57,559 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 1: So why would you make a prison movie that was 212 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:02,719 Speaker 1: completely unrealistic right when you can make the real deal 213 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:05,880 Speaker 1: and it's very compelling. Yeah, and we'll talk about movies too, 214 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 1: But yes, you are a fish, Josh. You're all your 215 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:12,200 Speaker 1: stuff is taken and cataloged, hopefully kept. We'll get to 216 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 1: that later as well. Some of it might be lost 217 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:17,960 Speaker 1: along the way. Uh. You are allowed to bring in 218 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:20,600 Speaker 1: like your reading glasses and maybe a few books. No cookies, 219 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 1: no cookies, you're legal papers if you you know, were 220 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 1: into that. And so you're you're processed, right, and you're 221 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:30,640 Speaker 1: actually processed often in full view of other cons in 222 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 1: the fish tank. And they call it, yeah, they call 223 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 1: it the fish tank because all the guys who are 224 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:37,359 Speaker 1: already in prison can sit there and watch right. Um, 225 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 1: but they keep you segregated for about thirty days or more. 226 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 1: You had no idea what was that long? I didn't either. 227 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 1: I thought they allowsed you. They sprayed you at the 228 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:48,800 Speaker 1: fire hose, gave you an orange jumpsuit and threw you 229 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 1: in there. That's what I imagine. But yeah, no, for 230 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 1: thirty days you're basically segregated. I imagine what the other 231 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 1: fellas on the diesel tour you know, and um, you 232 00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:00,680 Speaker 1: are assigned a job most likely, but you're about fish 233 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:03,680 Speaker 1: tank like you're on full display. Like for thirty days, 234 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:07,959 Speaker 1: dudes are sizing you up. Well, Like in Shaw Shank 235 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 1: when they took bets on who was going to be 236 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 1: the first gut, first fish to break down and cry 237 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 1: that first night, it was that fat guy broke down 238 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 1: and cry, and then he got beaten and bad things 239 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:22,520 Speaker 1: happen to him. I always confused that. In the Green Mile, 240 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 1: I didn't like that one. No, Sean Shank was definitely better, 241 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:28,960 Speaker 1: but I often confused scenes they were shot almost exactly 242 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 1: the same. Yeah, I agreed. So, uh, once you get 243 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:36,960 Speaker 1: out of your fish tank, you get your cell assignment, 244 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 1: you may get your job right and again for about 245 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 1: ten cents an hour. That's what you're paid. You should 246 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:46,080 Speaker 1: I read the letter real quick. There's actually a site 247 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 1: on the web called prison talk dot com, and it's 248 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 1: not as hot as you would think now, but you 249 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 1: can go to forums there and read x cons and 250 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 1: maybe even some current cons if you have internet access 251 00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 1: and like a minimum security talk about things on these 252 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: is in forms. So I found a letter of I 253 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 1: was digging around about jobs, and this one guy said 254 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:07,199 Speaker 1: the worst job he had was being a dorm janitor. 255 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 1: He got paid forty cents a day. This is not 256 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:13,840 Speaker 1: by the hour. Forty cents a day, five days a week. 257 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:17,079 Speaker 1: There were four dorms total, about sixty guys in each, 258 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 1: two bathrooms in each. You don't want to have a 259 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:23,440 Speaker 1: salaried prison job as a convict. I'm not sure if 260 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 1: that hit home. Sixty guys sharing two bathrooms and this 261 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:29,560 Speaker 1: guy was in charge of cleaning that on a daily basis. 262 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 1: I do appreciate you repeating that. So he swept off 263 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 1: in he said he kept the dorm rooms clean. You've 264 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 1: never seen a battleground of chaos until you've seen a 265 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 1: bathroom after thirty guys take a shower, mud dirt, torn, tissue, 266 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:45,160 Speaker 1: blue State soap, so I guess they get SOAPA signed 267 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 1: to them and never really thought about that. So anyway, 268 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 1: tobacco spit in the in the hangout room, garbage um 269 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 1: cigarette butts from roll ups. Basically, this dude had to 270 00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 1: clean that stuff up for forty cents a day and 271 00:14:58,400 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 1: he said that was the worst job you ever had 272 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 1: in for his all right, and he didn't even mention 273 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:07,040 Speaker 1: the fecal matter. Well, I think that's implicit. Well I 274 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 1: just made an explicit check. Yes, So that is one 275 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 1: example of a prison job that you can get um 276 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 1: and then you're off to your room, which I would 277 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 1: encourage everyone now to walk off eight ft by six 278 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 1: ft wherever they are and get a good look at 279 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 1: how large that is. And that's about the size of 280 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 1: your prison cell. That's close to what we're at right now. Yeah, 281 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 1: that's small, and that's a little claustrophobic. Usually, well it depends. 282 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 1: The Most prison cells are designed for one guy, and 283 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 1: then as prisons have grown increasingly overcrowded, they'll go and 284 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 1: like bolt a bunk to another bunk to the wall, 285 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 1: and then while I you have a cell for two, 286 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:51,480 Speaker 1: and then sometimes there's three. Whatever usually if it's designed 287 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 1: to house more than um one or two people that 288 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 1: it's a dorm and it can accommodate about eight guys 289 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 1: per cell. Right yeah, I mean we could do a 290 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 1: whole podcast on overcrowding and the issues there. That's like 291 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 1: a very deep problem, but we'll just mention it and 292 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:11,480 Speaker 1: say it stinks. I'm beat literally and otherwise. Right, um, 293 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 1: so chuck the You've got the general population cellblocks, right, 294 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 1: which are all of the cell blocks aside from the 295 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 1: fish tank and maximum security, which is also known as 296 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:26,640 Speaker 1: the whole right, and you've basically did you watch OZ 297 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 1: a little bit? I think from what I understand that 298 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 1: that's really accurate. I'm sure it is. So there's like 299 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 1: a centrally located guard and like loose sight or whatever. 300 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:39,120 Speaker 1: They're like, you can't get through this, you know, operating 301 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 1: the all the cell blocked doors and like letting people 302 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:44,760 Speaker 1: in and out, and they have a three and sixty 303 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 1: degree view right well, and each one I thought this 304 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 1: is interesting is fully each wing is fully staffed in 305 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 1: case you need to lock down that wing. You've got 306 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 1: all the dudes there, you need to take care of it, 307 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 1: and it can be sealed off from the rest of 308 00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 1: the prison because apparently, um, the riot mob mentality can 309 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: spread like wildfire among the president population. Yes, yeah, so um, 310 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:10,640 Speaker 1: and you would think, you know, people try to escape, which, 311 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:12,879 Speaker 1: by the way, there's a a double check. There's a 312 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 1: stuff you missed in history class podcast about Alcatraz and 313 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:20,880 Speaker 1: the Great Escape. They Escape from Alcatraz, great movie. So 314 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 1: if you want to learn more about that one, you 315 00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:25,399 Speaker 1: can check that out, all right, if you're so inclined. Um, 316 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 1: But to make sure that no one has escaped at 317 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:32,879 Speaker 1: any given point in time, they do counts through about 318 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 1: the same time every day, probably the same time every day. 319 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:37,639 Speaker 1: They just do a head count where you have to 320 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:41,879 Speaker 1: line up and they say, okay, everybody's here. Then at 321 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:43,800 Speaker 1: night they walk around and count you while you're sleeping, 322 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 1: right yeah. And then not only are you there, but 323 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:48,160 Speaker 1: you where you need to be. So if they say, well, Josh, 324 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:50,280 Speaker 1: you're in Chuck cell again, you know where you need 325 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:52,960 Speaker 1: to be, so they'll beat you down and take you 326 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 1: to your own cell. Right, I'll feel like I need 327 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:59,080 Speaker 1: to be here, don't you hear our podcast? The Chuck 328 00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 1: is my partner. I wonder what the good fellas uh 329 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 1: that had to be minimum or was that just a 330 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:07,199 Speaker 1: sweetheart deal? That was a sweetheart to remember when they 331 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:09,200 Speaker 1: were all in the same room, like cooking steaks. Yeah, 332 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:12,120 Speaker 1: the the one guy could slice the garlic so thin 333 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:16,400 Speaker 1: it was liquefying the oil so great. So Chuck, let's say, Um, 334 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:21,160 Speaker 1: you've become acclimated. You're no longer fish you. Um, you've 335 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:25,440 Speaker 1: shanked your first guy. Um, and you you're settled in 336 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:29,720 Speaker 1: for a nickel right, shank of verb? Yeah, it's shank 337 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:32,359 Speaker 1: is a verb, and and down and shiv is also 338 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:36,359 Speaker 1: another name for a shank, right, which is a homemade knife. Yes, okay, 339 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:38,399 Speaker 1: I just want to get that clear. I don't know 340 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:41,440 Speaker 1: that it is clear. Well, a shiv and a shank, 341 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:43,360 Speaker 1: I know, can both be nouns for the knife. But 342 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:45,399 Speaker 1: I've also heard that you can shank someone and you 343 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 1: can show someone you can. I think they're both nouns 344 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:50,480 Speaker 1: and verbs very loosen prison for the same one. They're 345 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:56,200 Speaker 1: very understanding. Yes, with the vocabulary. Um, so you settled 346 00:18:56,240 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 1: in and you are living your life in prison behind bars, 347 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 1: you know. Um, it's it's I would imagine, fairly horrible. 348 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:11,640 Speaker 1: But there are bright and shining moments and those basically 349 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:14,800 Speaker 1: consist of the trip to the commissary, right, yeah, and 350 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 1: I don't I didn't know this, they don't. You don't 351 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 1: see this a lot in movies. All you see is 352 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:21,359 Speaker 1: the black market stuff. But there is actually a commissary 353 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:23,959 Speaker 1: where you can you have an account where you your 354 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 1: little prison money goes into your account. They obviously don't 355 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:29,959 Speaker 1: give you cash, that wouldn't be a good idea. And uh, 356 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:32,199 Speaker 1: you go to the commissary and say, hey, I like, um, 357 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:34,119 Speaker 1: whatever is approved on the list, you know, like a 358 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:38,239 Speaker 1: pack of smokes and uh, People magazine and they're like, 359 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:40,399 Speaker 1: well that's you know, three and a half dollars, So 360 00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:45,679 Speaker 1: go work for a month people from January? Yeah, who 361 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 1: sexiest man alive? And actually they debit each Each prisoner 362 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:55,640 Speaker 1: has an ID card that is linked to basically their 363 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:59,040 Speaker 1: prison work account. That's when they say their their debited 364 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 1: credits or given credits, and then it's debited from their 365 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:06,200 Speaker 1: account when you buy stuff from the commissary. I learned 366 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:09,959 Speaker 1: about that from Snoop Dogg. Really, so that's the fancy 367 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:12,680 Speaker 1: modern prisons have it all electronically hooked up, which makes sense. 368 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 1: But um, like we said, there's also a black market 369 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 1: which you have seen in every prison movie ever, there's 370 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:22,760 Speaker 1: dudes trading cigarettes for favors or for protection, or for 371 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:28,160 Speaker 1: better books or better people magazines or whatever. And there's 372 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:33,920 Speaker 1: also visits from out of doors. Yeah right, sure, you 373 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:37,639 Speaker 1: get the bad stuff in a lot of times. Again, 374 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:41,120 Speaker 1: good fellas, You remember Karen snuck in like those huge 375 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:44,359 Speaker 1: bagged pills. I mean just like like in her purse 376 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 1: or in her bra or something. Yeah, they clearly didn't 377 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 1: check her. Again, I think that they got special treatment 378 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:53,840 Speaker 1: and chuck. Um. One of the things that I would 379 00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:57,760 Speaker 1: imagine goes for a pretty high price, you know, maybe 380 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:02,760 Speaker 1: a dozen cigarettes or so. Um is prison wine, right, Yeah, 381 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:06,359 Speaker 1: which prison wine? Pruno? Have you ever seen the site 382 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 1: where the guy eats nasty things, Steve, Steve, don't eat it. 383 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:13,679 Speaker 1: I think it's called um. It is really funny and 384 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:16,159 Speaker 1: I saw this years ago. This guy made Pruno prison 385 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:20,640 Speaker 1: wine in his house and it's made with like fruits. 386 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:23,199 Speaker 1: It's sort of like a Sangree type of thing. Then 387 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 1: you put like moldy bread in a sock and it's 388 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:28,680 Speaker 1: like soaking all together in a bag till it ferments, 389 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:33,080 Speaker 1: and it's imagine pretty disgusting. Steve said it wasn't that bad. 390 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:36,080 Speaker 1: He drank it. He did a white and a red. 391 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:39,359 Speaker 1: He said the white smelled like wrecked um, but he 392 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:41,520 Speaker 1: said it tasted just like alcohol. And he said the 393 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 1: red actually wasn't that bad at all. He said, he 394 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:50,400 Speaker 1: said it tasted wine like and got him drunk, which 395 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:53,800 Speaker 1: is which is the deal? And uh so that that 396 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 1: was the deal with Pruno. Wow. I wouldn't recommend trying 397 00:21:57,280 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 1: in this at home, by the way, No, but that's 398 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:01,200 Speaker 1: the whole point. I mean, you're not at home, you're 399 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:03,159 Speaker 1: in prison, and you want to get drunk, so you 400 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:06,120 Speaker 1: make pruno. Yeah, unless someone wants to. Like you said, 401 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:09,439 Speaker 1: with visitation, you can sneak things in if you're you know, 402 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 1: on the download, you're really not supposed to do that 403 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:15,480 Speaker 1: way you're not supposed to. You get searched. And um, 404 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:18,119 Speaker 1: and yes we are talking about visitation as well, now right. 405 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 1: I didn't realize that, UM, visiting hours are basically like 406 00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 1: business hours. I thought it was like one day a 407 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:29,320 Speaker 1: month and everybody came at the same time on the 408 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:32,359 Speaker 1: same day. But that makes zero sense. UM. Prisoners are 409 00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:35,800 Speaker 1: assigned a set number of visits per month, and I 410 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:37,960 Speaker 1: think the maximum number of visits you can get per 411 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 1: month is for the most exemplary prisoner on the planet. Yeah, 412 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:44,720 Speaker 1: I would imagine that that's something that they take away 413 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:49,200 Speaker 1: pretty pretty routinely if you, you know, are being disciplined, yes, Josh. 414 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:51,919 Speaker 1: And you also have to have a list when you 415 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,680 Speaker 1: go in of who you say can and can't visit you. 416 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 1: And if you're not on that list, you can eventually visit, 417 00:22:57,840 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 1: but it's gonna take a long time and a lot 418 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:02,520 Speaker 1: of paperworking tape, yes, right, yeah, And I think you 419 00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:08,200 Speaker 1: have unlimited visits from investigators, your lawyer and that's about it, right, Yeah, 420 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 1: but they still keep track of all that and your 421 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 1: search coming in the prisoner and the and the visitor 422 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:15,879 Speaker 1: both searched coming in and out. I don't know if 423 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:17,840 Speaker 1: it's full body cavity. It probably depends on the max 424 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:21,240 Speaker 1: level or your crime. I think kind of follows you 425 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:23,840 Speaker 1: around in prison, like what you did, what are you're 426 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:26,560 Speaker 1: convicted of? Like if you're convicted for smuggling things in 427 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:30,600 Speaker 1: your butt, check you a little more careful. And of course, 428 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:34,320 Speaker 1: now since we're talking about um, oh, and during visitation, 429 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:38,000 Speaker 1: like just regular visitation, right, um at a minimum security 430 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 1: Remember this is just like college orientation weekend. Um, it 431 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:45,800 Speaker 1: looks like a waiting room. Um. And then in maximum security, 432 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:50,200 Speaker 1: visitation is like through that bulletproof class on the phone. Yeah, 433 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 1: it's pretty accurate. And then there's a different kind of 434 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 1: visitation that I think everybody likes to think about, at 435 00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 1: least thinks about whenever they hear prison. And that is 436 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,919 Speaker 1: kind of goal visitation, right, Yeah, it's it's one of 437 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:06,359 Speaker 1: the two ways that you can have sex in prison. Right. 438 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 1: This is far more the um, the I guess more 439 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:16,440 Speaker 1: governmentally defended way of having sex in prison. UM. Conjugal 440 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 1: visits Actually, we're UM originated in nineteen eighteen in Mississippi 441 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,960 Speaker 1: at a state prison in Mississippi, where they remain in effect. 442 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 1: But originally they were created as a reward for hard 443 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:30,879 Speaker 1: work on the chain gangs and stuff right, well, and 444 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:34,120 Speaker 1: to incentivize them to work harder to write um. And 445 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 1: it worked really really well. UM. Nowadays that's not used 446 00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:43,440 Speaker 1: quite as UM overtly as an incentive or reward. UM. 447 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,080 Speaker 1: It is a reward for for good behavior or you 448 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 1: have to be like, you know, the one who can 449 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:51,680 Speaker 1: get as many visits a month as one possibly can 450 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 1: level of good behavior prisoner. But UM. It's generally defended 451 00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:59,439 Speaker 1: in two ways. One is a basic human right, like 452 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,200 Speaker 1: you have a right to have sex even if you're incarcerated, 453 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 1: just like you have a right to food and water 454 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:07,679 Speaker 1: and being kept clean, sure, right um. And then the 455 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,400 Speaker 1: other way, and this this appears to be much more 456 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:14,320 Speaker 1: legitimate in the eyes of the correction system. It's a 457 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:18,120 Speaker 1: way to maintain the family bonds throughout a stint in prisons. 458 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 1: Right sweet. And that's what it's even officially called as 459 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:24,280 Speaker 1: the Extended Family Program, right, So it's not just about sex. 460 00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:28,640 Speaker 1: Like you can have your whole family come over and barbecue. 461 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 1: In some states it's UM. In Canada, I think they 462 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:37,120 Speaker 1: have there there. I guess visitation areas look like apartments 463 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 1: have barbecues. There's such wisses you can have. You can 464 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:45,359 Speaker 1: have up to three UM family members at a time visit. 465 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:47,440 Speaker 1: Or you can just have your wife and it has 466 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:49,920 Speaker 1: to be your wife and you have to have been 467 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:53,239 Speaker 1: married before, because that's the whole point they want. They 468 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,359 Speaker 1: don't want you to turn into even more of a 469 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,200 Speaker 1: deviant than you were going in. They want you to 470 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 1: keep talking to your wife and keep you know, loving 471 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:03,640 Speaker 1: your kids mean love by your kids. And to make 472 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,639 Speaker 1: that the transition back out into the normal world that 473 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 1: much easier, right, Right, So, if you're one of those 474 00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 1: serial killers and you have one of those weirdos that 475 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:13,880 Speaker 1: writes you and you're marry and then you marry them, 476 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:17,879 Speaker 1: they can't come and visit you and have sex, right right, No, Okay? Now, Um, 477 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:21,120 Speaker 1: if you're gay, however, and you have a domestic partner 478 00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:26,040 Speaker 1: and you are in Mexico City, Brazil, or California, you 479 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:29,840 Speaker 1: are entitled to conjugal visits as well, which is pretty 480 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:34,680 Speaker 1: significant in California because in two thousand seven you could 481 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:38,159 Speaker 1: have a conjugal visit if you were gay, but you 482 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,400 Speaker 1: couldn't get married if you were gay, thanks to Proposition eight, 483 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,960 Speaker 1: which was just overturned. Yeah yesterday. It's not over yet. 484 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,199 Speaker 1: The proposition night was overturned yesterday. Yeah. So that's the 485 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:53,320 Speaker 1: that's the skinny and conjugal visits not not quite as 486 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:58,399 Speaker 1: again like arrested development, I don't think, yeah, and they 487 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:00,240 Speaker 1: don't use it a whole lot anymore. They say it's 488 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:03,320 Speaker 1: pretty uncommon. There's only six states, right, yeah, but um, 489 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:04,959 Speaker 1: the one thing I thought was funny though, that one 490 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:09,680 Speaker 1: of the rules for the visiting um person is the 491 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 1: dress appropriately and they said on the list of rules 492 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:16,720 Speaker 1: was no transparent clothing or bare middriffs, strapless attire, or 493 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:20,120 Speaker 1: anything with obscene or offensive language. So your wife can't 494 00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:23,159 Speaker 1: get all dolled up in her baby doll lingerie. I 495 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:25,960 Speaker 1: don't know. I think they're like, can't you just put 496 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:30,439 Speaker 1: a trench coat on? Like everybody else? You know, have 497 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:33,919 Speaker 1: you not seen the movies exactly? And I think the 498 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,159 Speaker 1: mix that's it's a mixed bag on whether or not 499 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,200 Speaker 1: experts agree or they just agree and disagree, whether or 500 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 1: not it actually serves a really good purpose. Well, yeah, 501 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:46,040 Speaker 1: and the studies on it have have shown mixed results 502 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:49,880 Speaker 1: about whether or not it prevents recitativism. Yeah, that's one 503 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:54,480 Speaker 1: bone head word. That's why s game a little bit 504 00:27:54,600 --> 00:28:20,240 Speaker 1: that you should know, should know. But Josh Clark, so Chuck, 505 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:22,240 Speaker 1: you mentioned there's another way to have sex in prison, 506 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 1: and this is one of the reasons I don't want 507 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,560 Speaker 1: to go to prison, because actually there's two more ways. 508 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:29,840 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Well, you can have consensual sex with another 509 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 1: man if you're in there, which doesn't necessarily mean you're homosexual. 510 00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 1: A lot of guys just there's nothing wrong with that, like, 511 00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:38,720 Speaker 1: I just do that because they're in there. And uh, 512 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:42,640 Speaker 1: there's also rape that happens in prison. That's the reason 513 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,719 Speaker 1: I don't want to go to prison, just one reason. Uh. 514 00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:47,920 Speaker 1: In two thousand seven, Josh, we have a statistic from 515 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 1: the Bureau of Justice says four point five percent of 516 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:55,240 Speaker 1: state and federal prisoners reported being raped in the past year. 517 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 1: And that is UM seventy thousand prisoners in a year. 518 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:03,280 Speaker 1: We're sexually abused by either guards or other inmates. See, 519 00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:05,640 Speaker 1: that's all over the place, because there's other I've seen 520 00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:09,920 Speaker 1: other numbers. UM one one two thousand four study found 521 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 1: that zero point zero zero five percent even reported being 522 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,600 Speaker 1: raped while they were incarcerated, and then a lot of 523 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:21,520 Speaker 1: those were probably you know, untrue. Well that's the deal, 524 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 1: is reported. That's the key. Like rape goes unreported a lot, 525 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:29,400 Speaker 1: just period, but it definitely goes unreported in prison because 526 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:31,480 Speaker 1: you don't want to be a snitch. Well sure, but no, 527 00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:33,640 Speaker 1: I think these are people who have been let out already. 528 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 1: Oh okay, yeah. But then in two thousand three, the 529 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:42,480 Speaker 1: year before UM, Congress created the Prison Rape Elimination Actors. 530 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 1: You know about that UM and the number they used 531 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 1: was thirteen pent and estimated of prisoners are raped during 532 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:54,000 Speaker 1: their incarceration and their goal is zero. Well, yeah, and 533 00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:56,400 Speaker 1: they're like, you have to have a zero tolerance policy 534 00:29:56,600 --> 00:30:02,640 Speaker 1: on UM inmate two inmate rape UM and guard to 535 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:05,520 Speaker 1: inmate or employee to inmate. Sure, rape that kind of 536 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:07,920 Speaker 1: thing too, because it's not just inmates raping one another. 537 00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:13,320 Speaker 1: Guards at correctional facilities have been known to um be 538 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:18,200 Speaker 1: a little heavy handed and possibly psychotic themselves. Yeah. And 539 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:20,400 Speaker 1: I can say this because my cousin was a prison 540 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:23,080 Speaker 1: guard for a little while, a corrections officer. Cousin Wolfe. 541 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,880 Speaker 1: Was he high school grad? Well he had to be. Yeah, 542 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 1: but you don't have to go to college to be 543 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:30,400 Speaker 1: a corrections officer, No, you don't. You just have to 544 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 1: know how to shoot a shotgun. But to be the 545 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,200 Speaker 1: warden you do. Yes, okay, Josh. Let's say you're in 546 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,200 Speaker 1: prison and you commit a an offense or you're caught 547 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:41,320 Speaker 1: raping somebody. Under the new zero tolerance policy, Well, if 548 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:45,080 Speaker 1: you're caught raping someone or murdering someone, you would actually 549 00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:49,160 Speaker 1: go to trial for real, guess. But if you're caught 550 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:52,360 Speaker 1: doing something a little less offensive, um, you can go 551 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:56,560 Speaker 1: to the whole. They can um remove your good behavior time, 552 00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:00,720 Speaker 1: transfer you to to a scarier prison, or like you said, uh, 553 00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:03,440 Speaker 1: limit your visiting hours that I'm sure that's a good 554 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:06,280 Speaker 1: way to dig back at a prisoner. So you can't 555 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:11,360 Speaker 1: get visits, um, and you get demerits called shots, and 556 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:14,240 Speaker 1: they log those to your little file. Yeah, and they 557 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:17,000 Speaker 1: take those into consideration when you're up for parole hearing 558 00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:20,959 Speaker 1: or you're up to maybe get more visitations if if 559 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,720 Speaker 1: they're any time, they're looking at your behavior. Yeah, Um, 560 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 1: they'll look at the shots and they follow you around. 561 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:30,720 Speaker 1: You don't want any shots. And that's official punishment. Is 562 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:34,560 Speaker 1: there's also unofficial punishment meted out by guards, right, Yeah. 563 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:36,760 Speaker 1: I would rather have the official punishment, I think, because 564 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:39,120 Speaker 1: just like in the movies, the guards can shake you down. 565 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:44,000 Speaker 1: They can quote unquote, um investigate what you have in 566 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:46,480 Speaker 1: your room, when what they're really doing is like destroying 567 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:48,960 Speaker 1: the things that you've grown to depend on to keep 568 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:52,400 Speaker 1: you saying, I know, have you ever seen Birdman of Alcatraz? Yeah, 569 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,480 Speaker 1: it's awful, and they take his birds away I know well, 570 00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,680 Speaker 1: and then uh escape from Alcatraz. They took away the 571 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,880 Speaker 1: one eyes paints the old dude that painted. That was 572 00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:04,600 Speaker 1: like the only thing he loved and they took away 573 00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:07,600 Speaker 1: his canvas in his paints. Some jerk warden. It's always 574 00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:11,240 Speaker 1: a jerk warden. Well, yeah, except Brewbaker. We'll talk about 575 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:14,440 Speaker 1: that too. Uh. And guards can also beat you down, 576 00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 1: and if nobody sees it and no one reports it, 577 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 1: then it's just what happens. Well, I think it's I 578 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:21,360 Speaker 1: think that's officially sanctioned. I don't think that they have 579 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 1: to get permission to beat you down. If I permiss, say, hey, 580 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:26,840 Speaker 1: this guy is getting a little ordinary, so I'm gonna 581 00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:28,480 Speaker 1: break a river or too. But what I'm saying is 582 00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:30,040 Speaker 1: I think they have a pretty wide berth as to 583 00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:33,520 Speaker 1: what sanctions the beating and Grabmanowski put it, I'd like 584 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,240 Speaker 1: to I'd like to quote him here. It is not 585 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 1: uncommon for guards to fire shotguns at prisoners whenever they 586 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:42,760 Speaker 1: see any commotion. Didn't understand that one, and I double checked, 587 00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:46,640 Speaker 1: and it says at prisoners, not just fire shotguns like 588 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:48,640 Speaker 1: up in the air something. It's just like, hey, there's 589 00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,960 Speaker 1: you guys are scuffling. Kaboom. Yeah, I don't know about 590 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:57,240 Speaker 1: that one. Yeah, this is indoors uh so like we said, Um, 591 00:32:57,280 --> 00:32:59,680 Speaker 1: snitches are not you don't want to be a snitch 592 00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,520 Speaker 1: in prison, And um, it's very much that mentality that 593 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:05,680 Speaker 1: you see in the movies where keep it quiet, don't 594 00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,520 Speaker 1: rat on anyone, because if you do, then I mean, 595 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:11,240 Speaker 1: who knows what's going to happen. Uh, well, I can 596 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:13,880 Speaker 1: tell you it's gonna happen. You're likely to be shanked 597 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:16,200 Speaker 1: or shipped, which is the same thing, or raped and 598 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:19,360 Speaker 1: shaw shank. Yeah. Remember Andy's problem there with the with 599 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,160 Speaker 1: the sisters. Yeah, but he got back. That was one 600 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:24,560 Speaker 1: of the great redemption scenes of all time. I think 601 00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:28,720 Speaker 1: the whole movie with great Oh no, I'm sorry, I 602 00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:33,080 Speaker 1: was thinking of the Green Mile. Sorry, but the funny 603 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:35,200 Speaker 1: thing is is, and it's not funny to the guards, 604 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:38,280 Speaker 1: but they're way way more prisoners than guards. And every 605 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:40,280 Speaker 1: once in a while in history we've had these big 606 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 1: uprisings where the prisoners have actually taken control of the prison. Yeah, 607 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:48,200 Speaker 1: if you work at a prison, you don't want to 608 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:52,760 Speaker 1: hear the word attica sounded out by like enchant form 609 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:57,320 Speaker 1: by one or even more one or two prisoners. Is 610 00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:59,720 Speaker 1: that what they use now? Is that the signal? Well, 611 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,800 Speaker 1: I mean like that that means that there's violent unrest 612 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:04,680 Speaker 1: right around the corner. I thought that was a signal. 613 00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:07,560 Speaker 1: Now was like attica, I don't know if it's a signal. 614 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,160 Speaker 1: Is more like a call to arms, you know, And 615 00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:12,799 Speaker 1: all of a sudden there's toilet paper on fire and 616 00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:15,399 Speaker 1: guys are coming at you and it's just not good. Yeah, 617 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:18,879 Speaker 1: that didn't work out too well. No, it was one right, 618 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:24,400 Speaker 1: And apparently Atteka Prison in upstate New York was really 619 00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:28,120 Speaker 1: really deplorable as far as its treatment of the prisoners went, 620 00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:30,680 Speaker 1: which is really saying something because their prisoners to begin with, 621 00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:34,080 Speaker 1: and to have like the prisoners even know like you 622 00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:38,160 Speaker 1: can't do this, Um, that's pretty bad. So they took 623 00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:42,200 Speaker 1: a couple of guards hostage, rioted, um held them, and 624 00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:45,279 Speaker 1: demanded for better treatment. And the State of New York 625 00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:48,480 Speaker 1: was like, okay, all right, we hear you, and we're 626 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,000 Speaker 1: going to storm the prison. And I think thirty three 627 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:56,719 Speaker 1: people died. Uh no, thirty nine guards. Yeah, thirty nine 628 00:34:56,719 --> 00:35:01,640 Speaker 1: guards and prisoners died. And that was in Many one. Um. 629 00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:05,440 Speaker 1: And then there's one in New Mexico, right, Yeah. The 630 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:09,560 Speaker 1: New Mexico State pen uh near Santa Fe was another uprising, 631 00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:12,200 Speaker 1: and that was where thirty three inmates were killed and 632 00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:15,480 Speaker 1: no guards were killed, but seven of them were captured 633 00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:18,440 Speaker 1: and beaten pretty severely, right, and apparently some of the 634 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:22,760 Speaker 1: inmates that were killed died from torture. Really just pleasant. 635 00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:24,880 Speaker 1: I mean, think about it, Chuck. It's bad enough to 636 00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:27,400 Speaker 1: go to prison, but one of the aspects of prison 637 00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:29,520 Speaker 1: is that there's an end of your sentence, right, there's 638 00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:30,960 Speaker 1: a light at the end of the tunnel if you 639 00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:35,359 Speaker 1: can make it. Dying in prison is about as bad 640 00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:40,080 Speaker 1: as it gets, especially dying of torture in prison. Would 641 00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:42,839 Speaker 1: say it's pretty bad. So Josh, let's say you don't die. 642 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:46,000 Speaker 1: Let's see you serve your time and you do get out. 643 00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:48,839 Speaker 1: What what what goes on there? Well, you would be 644 00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:52,959 Speaker 1: like nine of all prison inmates get out. Yeah, which 645 00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,520 Speaker 1: is one of the reasons why you want those family 646 00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:58,279 Speaker 1: bonds in there, because you want to keep people on 647 00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:01,719 Speaker 1: the up and up rather than Prison represents a real 648 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,719 Speaker 1: double edged sword. Either it reforms people or it makes 649 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:08,320 Speaker 1: them worse, and a lot of that depends on how 650 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:12,879 Speaker 1: a prisoners treated and the options get into them in prison. Um. 651 00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:15,560 Speaker 1: One of the big trends now is education as part 652 00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:18,480 Speaker 1: of rehabilitation. So I think every single state prison in 653 00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:22,080 Speaker 1: the US UM offers a G. E. D course, and 654 00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:25,839 Speaker 1: some of them require it for parole, which is good. Yeah. Right. 655 00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:30,200 Speaker 1: There's also a vocational course, is that kind of thing? Right? Yes, 656 00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:32,879 Speaker 1: But once again, like in shaw Shank, you can take 657 00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:35,000 Speaker 1: that course and pass the test, but if you have 658 00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:37,640 Speaker 1: a jerk warden, you still might get shot. You know, 659 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:39,440 Speaker 1: we should have done at the beginning of this podcast. 660 00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:43,280 Speaker 1: We should have just said, everybody, go watch Shawshank Redemption. 661 00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:47,719 Speaker 1: Everybody'll see you next week. Everyone loves that movie. Can 662 00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:51,960 Speaker 1: we talk about the movies? Now? Are we there? Not quite? Okay? Um, Chuck. 663 00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:54,120 Speaker 1: There's a lot of people out there who don't think 664 00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:59,600 Speaker 1: that prisoners should just be left to rot, that they 665 00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:02,680 Speaker 1: they're there should be prison reform, that there shouldn't be 666 00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:04,920 Speaker 1: any rape, that that Congress shouldn't have had to have 667 00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:10,040 Speaker 1: passed the law requiring zero tolerance on prison rape. Um. 668 00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:12,600 Speaker 1: And there's actually been a prison reform movement going around 669 00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:20,680 Speaker 1: since I think, uh, possibly earlier than that, I don't know. Yeah, 670 00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:23,799 Speaker 1: the Quakers are huge on prison reform as well. Uh. 671 00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:26,480 Speaker 1: And again, you want prison reform, you want your prisoners 672 00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:30,120 Speaker 1: treated in a way where there is the potential for 673 00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:35,640 Speaker 1: rehabilitation um because of recitativism, right, well, yeah, I mean 674 00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:38,560 Speaker 1: that's why they pay them to work these jobs, because 675 00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:42,760 Speaker 1: they want to give them some semblance of normal life 676 00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:45,399 Speaker 1: so when they get out they can say, oh, well, 677 00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:47,359 Speaker 1: I held a job in prison for the first time 678 00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:49,840 Speaker 1: in my life. Maybe they were like a drug dealer, 679 00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:52,920 Speaker 1: what have you. Right, well, think about it. Recitativism. The 680 00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:56,719 Speaker 1: highest rate is among property offenses, and that is a 681 00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:59,920 Speaker 1: crime of the poor, breaking into someone's house and stealing 682 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:03,080 Speaker 1: of stuff. Yeah, that's what you do when you're poor. Yeah, 683 00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:05,920 Speaker 1: and that's got the highest rate of recentativism. So it 684 00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:09,920 Speaker 1: would seem like some sort of education or occupational program 685 00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:13,359 Speaker 1: wouldn't help deter that. Well. Yeah. But the other stat though, 686 00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:15,520 Speaker 1: that kind of makes me feel weird, is that I 687 00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:19,400 Speaker 1: think sixty seven of people who commit crimes to go 688 00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:22,840 Speaker 1: back into prison it's an entirely different crime that they commit. 689 00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:25,759 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, which was like that was really discouraging. I 690 00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:28,800 Speaker 1: would think maybe if the guy just can't not steal TVs, 691 00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,480 Speaker 1: he gets out and steal TVs, you would think, so 692 00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:33,839 Speaker 1: at least go back to what he knows. But yeah, 693 00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:37,080 Speaker 1: that's a little staggering. It is that would shut any 694 00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:39,680 Speaker 1: Quaker up? And what what is the rate? I saw? 695 00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:42,560 Speaker 1: I can't get like the most recent stat but it 696 00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:46,000 Speaker 1: looks like between fifty and six somewhere in there from 697 00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:49,000 Speaker 1: year to year for recidivism rates. Yeah, though in two 698 00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:51,960 Speaker 1: and ninety four it was sixty seven point five, right. 699 00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:54,399 Speaker 1: I think it's gone down since then. Yeah, And and 700 00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:58,799 Speaker 1: that's surprising because the incarceration rates have gone down too, 701 00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:02,719 Speaker 1: which is totally bucking a trend. I think, um, they're 702 00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:05,480 Speaker 1: going down. That's what you said. Remember in two thousand 703 00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:08,200 Speaker 1: five that these stats are based on, it was two 704 00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:14,279 Speaker 1: million and changed to I'm sorry, it was two million, Um, 705 00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:18,200 Speaker 1: one ninety three thousand prisoners in the US. You said 706 00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:21,400 Speaker 1: it was less than two million in two thousand nine. Yeah, 707 00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:24,600 Speaker 1: but I think that's people that are currently incarcerated. But 708 00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:28,160 Speaker 1: that doesn't necessarily mean more people aren't being incarcerated on 709 00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:30,600 Speaker 1: a daily basis, because I think that's true because the 710 00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:34,520 Speaker 1: mandatory minimums. I think more people than ever are being incarcerated. 711 00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:38,240 Speaker 1: So maybe that was people that had left. I don't know. Well, 712 00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:41,640 Speaker 1: whatever it was, there was a two hundred seventy increase 713 00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:46,279 Speaker 1: between two thousand. That's huge, and we spent I think 714 00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:49,600 Speaker 1: fifty one billion dollars to incarceerate people in prison in jail, 715 00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:52,520 Speaker 1: whereas um, I think that comes out to twenty nine 716 00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:57,400 Speaker 1: thousand per per year. And remember a bail podcast. Uh 717 00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:00,759 Speaker 1: it costs d and fifty doll was per in mate 718 00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:05,319 Speaker 1: per year for probation. How much rather than twenty nine 719 00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:09,000 Speaker 1: thousand dollars. But these minor offenses throwing these guys, especially 720 00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:12,440 Speaker 1: like the car thief that was in a super max 721 00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:16,000 Speaker 1: that was sixteen. Let me come on non violent offenses. 722 00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:20,879 Speaker 1: You can rehabilitate that kids with some work. Alright, So, Chuck, 723 00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:23,520 Speaker 1: I think it is movie time, don't you think so? Yes, 724 00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:27,120 Speaker 1: Josh movies. I made a list of my favorites. Feel 725 00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:30,319 Speaker 1: free to chime in. Shawshank Redemption that's number one for me, 726 00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:34,959 Speaker 1: The Green Mile, and that's not mine. I've got Escape 727 00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:37,080 Speaker 1: from Alcatraz because I saw that when I was a kid, 728 00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:41,000 Speaker 1: and it's still like an awesome movie, Papion classic with 729 00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:44,720 Speaker 1: the Dustin Hoffman with the glasses, with the glasses and 730 00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:47,479 Speaker 1: and Steve McQueen, right, it was in the Great Escape 731 00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:50,080 Speaker 1: to also a great person movie. H cool hand Luke 732 00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:54,520 Speaker 1: was probably the funniest one of the lot, the longest yard. Actually, 733 00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:56,480 Speaker 1: that might have been the funniest one. I never saw 734 00:40:56,520 --> 00:41:02,239 Speaker 1: either of them. Really, You're nuts. Bad Boys Classic with 735 00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:06,040 Speaker 1: Will Smion and the Sean Penn went about the juv detention. 736 00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:09,799 Speaker 1: That's when Sean Penn was like, you know, nineteen years 737 00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:13,200 Speaker 1: old and he was in juvenile detention and then he 738 00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:16,120 Speaker 1: he filled a pillow case up with a soda cans 739 00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:19,719 Speaker 1: and just annihilated this dude one night. Yeah, that's called 740 00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:21,719 Speaker 1: a slock. By the way, Now that's when it's in 741 00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:25,440 Speaker 1: a sock. Okay, I imagine this is me. It's called slaice. 742 00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:30,600 Speaker 1: UM American History X. That was pretty brutal. Yeah, that 743 00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:33,359 Speaker 1: was very brutal. Brew Baker, did you see that one. 744 00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:38,960 Speaker 1: That's where Robert Redford went in undercover as a prisoner 745 00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:42,239 Speaker 1: to sniff out how awful the prison was because he 746 00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:44,879 Speaker 1: was going to be the next warden. You're talking about 747 00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:50,960 Speaker 1: the natural And then most depressing, definitely Midnight Express for me, 748 00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:55,000 Speaker 1: the Turkish prison one. Yeah, Midnight Run was pretty depressing. 749 00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:01,279 Speaker 1: And um Animal Factory is the one I'm gonna say 750 00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:03,120 Speaker 1: is the most realistic. I have not seen that one. 751 00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:06,960 Speaker 1: That's the one that Steve Bushimmy directed and Um Edward 752 00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:09,719 Speaker 1: for long and I think William dafoees in it. It's 753 00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:11,759 Speaker 1: really good. And it's called Animal Factories, so you have 754 00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:14,279 Speaker 1: a pretty good idea that it's realistic. I saw a 755 00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:17,160 Speaker 1: Taxi to the Dark Side last night, and it's not. 756 00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:21,120 Speaker 1: It's about the US's policies on torture and how he 757 00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:24,360 Speaker 1: implemented him post nine eleven. But there's a lot of 758 00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:26,840 Speaker 1: prison stuff in it, like Abu Grave and Bogram and 759 00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:29,839 Speaker 1: stuff like that. It's pretty disturbing. Yeah, we didn't get 760 00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:31,880 Speaker 1: into I mean, there's so much about prisons that we 761 00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:34,200 Speaker 1: didn't get into here. We could do like three more 762 00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:37,560 Speaker 1: podcasts if we wanted to, and if it seemed like 763 00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:41,719 Speaker 1: we danced around something. Oh, I don't know. Capital Punishment, Yeah, 764 00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:44,480 Speaker 1: I didn't go there. That's coming. I can't wait to 765 00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:47,120 Speaker 1: do that one. It's gonna be sweeping. There's gonna be 766 00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:50,000 Speaker 1: top hats and like people doing like the can can 767 00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:52,000 Speaker 1: and stuff at the beginning. It's going to be enormous. Yeah, 768 00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:53,440 Speaker 1: I think we have the rockets lined up for that 769 00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:58,680 Speaker 1: list we do in prison Garbent. Yes, So Chuck's telling 770 00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:01,040 Speaker 1: me he's given me the Double Ink, which means there 771 00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:04,680 Speaker 1: is no listener mail. It was too long and too 772 00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:06,439 Speaker 1: full of goodness. You know what that means. That means 773 00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:08,719 Speaker 1: we just haven't gotten any listener mail. So we want 774 00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:12,080 Speaker 1: to hear from you. Just type some stuff out that 775 00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:17,479 Speaker 1: we would find interesting. Spanking on the bottom maybe yeah, 776 00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:21,680 Speaker 1: talc it first and uh send it to stuff podcast 777 00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:29,400 Speaker 1: at how stuff works dot com for more on this 778 00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:32,080 Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff works 779 00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:40,800 Speaker 1: dot com.