Speaker 1: Welcome back to Behind the Bastards, the show where Cody
Speaker 1: and I just finished laughing about Herman Kane. Not because
Speaker 1: there's anything funny about a death from COVID nineteen, but
Speaker 1: because the Kane Gang. The Kane Gang, which are the
Speaker 1: people who have taken over this dead Man's Twitter account
Speaker 1: tweeted out an article from Herman Kane dot com that said,
Speaker 1: resume life is normal over scientists and health of professional Yeah. Yeah, anyway,
Speaker 1: it's very gang going strong because the guy they're named
Speaker 1: after cannot resume life is normal because COVID killed him.
Speaker 1: I don't know. The article says, fine, so conflicting reports,
Speaker 1: one from a ghost and one from the ghosts friends.
Speaker 1: So well, this is probably a bad way to open
Speaker 1: a podcast about and beat us another victim of COVID nineteen.
Speaker 1: But we'll talk about that. Yeah, he got it. Did
Speaker 1: you not know that? Did I miss? Oh? Cody, We're
Speaker 1: gonna have fun in this episode. This is part two
Speaker 1: of our Jordan B. Peterson episode. Um, Cody Johnston is
Speaker 1: my guest. Some more news. They're also a podcast of
Speaker 1: a similar name. Um, my former co worker had cracked. Uh,
Speaker 1: the man who invented the drive system to the podcast
Speaker 1: you do together. You're just not going to do that.
Speaker 1: So Dr Jordan Peterson picked a good time to reveal
Speaker 1: himself as the philosophy daddy of the new Right. Two
Speaker 1: thousand seventeen was a great year for his brand. Trump
Speaker 1: was president. New conversations about Western chauvinism. We're cracking into
Speaker 1: the mainstream thanks to the alt Right and groups like
Speaker 1: the Proud Boys, and Jordan Peterson was among the most
Speaker 1: popular and highly paid speakers in the country. It is
Speaker 1: he's super fucking rich, like his gold gear. He was
Speaker 1: doing so good, Skyrocketingen was a bit better, and then
Speaker 1: things got a lot worse. Uh So he was polite
Speaker 1: in urban enough that he could avoid being lumped in
Speaker 1: with every liberals new boogeyman at the time the alt right,
Speaker 1: while still radicalizing and funneling new members into the alt right. Uh.
Speaker 1: Some perceptive writers critiqued him for this, my personal favorite
Speaker 1: being the McLean's writer who declared him the stupid person
Speaker 1: smart person. Um, yeah, now that a lot of I
Speaker 1: mean a lot that that describes a lot of people
Speaker 1: in the That does describe a lot of people. Vlogo sphere.
Speaker 1: I want to quote from that article To be clear,
Speaker 1: Jordan Peterson is not a neo Nazi, but there's a
Speaker 1: reason he's as popular he as he is on the
Speaker 1: alt right. You'll never hear him use the phrase we
Speaker 1: must secure a future for our white children. What you
Speaker 1: will hear is him say that, well, there does appear
Speaker 1: to be a causal relationship between empowering women and economic growth.
Speaker 1: We have to consider whether this is good for society
Speaker 1: because the birth rate is plumbing. That's a quote from
Speaker 1: Jordan Peterson. Yep. He doesn't call for a white ethno state,
Speaker 1: but he does retweet daily color articles with opening lines
Speaker 1: like yet again an American city is being torn apart
Speaker 1: by black rioters. He has dedicated two and a half
Speaker 1: hour long YouTube videos to identity politics and the Marxist
Speaker 1: fly of white privilege. I can't say marxistly and not
Speaker 1: to avenge, I'm sorry. Yeah, it's just where I go,
Speaker 1: and they require requires a voice every time. Whenever I
Speaker 1: say antifa, I do that now too. It's antiva. Yeah,
Speaker 1: It's it's just how it is, how it does these days. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So Jordan himself was careful to define himself as a
Speaker 1: classic British liberal. This is not an uncommon line for
Speaker 1: people to take when they hate things like trans rights,
Speaker 1: but when a couch their bigotry in an appreciation for debate.
Speaker 1: You'll never hear hate speech out of Jordan Peterson's mouth,
Speaker 1: but he will be happy to explain to you when
Speaker 1: his audience of millions that marginalized groups are infantilized by
Speaker 1: identity politics and their offense, that the racism of his
Speaker 1: white consumers is part of a culture of victimhood. Again,
Speaker 1: no racial slurs, but he will explained to you why
Speaker 1: it's wrong for people to be offended by racial slurs. Oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's why. He'll explain, like here's why it's wrong
Speaker 1: to be offended by this, or here's why, Um, it's
Speaker 1: natural to like fear people like feel fear the other
Speaker 1: and things he's tweeted. He once tweeted an article about
Speaker 1: the dangers of diversity and how diversity is bad. Um,
Speaker 1: and that article was by Steve Sailor from v Dare,
Speaker 1: who yeah, literally a guy who invented something called the
Speaker 1: Sailor strategy, which was what Trump strategy was basically like,
Speaker 1: go to the uh disaffected like white aggrieved white Americans,
Speaker 1: uh and play that game um and in the article uh,
Speaker 1: he cited a study about how like, yeah, if you
Speaker 1: have diversity, um, it causes like some you know, tension
Speaker 1: and between the different groups. Um. And he cites that
Speaker 1: in the article. He hasn't mentioned the part of the
Speaker 1: study that points out that but in the long run
Speaker 1: it improves economy and social stat it like, over time,
Speaker 1: diversity improves society. It's just at the beginning it you know,
Speaker 1: people are tribal and it causes some strikes. It is
Speaker 1: always interesting whenever Peterson will share something like that that
Speaker 1: goes out of its way to not include part of
Speaker 1: a study that is antithetical to what they're trying to
Speaker 1: um to prove he's a good guy, studious, studious man,
Speaker 1: good tweets, good twart m hmm. Okay. So Peterson's repeated
Speaker 1: jabs at identity politics are extremely funny in light of
Speaker 1: the ways that he's attempted to co opt indigenous identity
Speaker 1: for his own crude benefit. Did you know about this, Cody?
Speaker 1: Do you know about Jordan Peterson's claims that he's been
Speaker 1: inducted into an Indigenous I remember this, Yeah, give it
Speaker 1: to me. In two thousand eighteen, old tweets of Peterson's
Speaker 1: surface where and he told some sort of joke about
Speaker 1: an Indian bartender's quote from him Senator Murray Sinclair, who's
Speaker 1: a Canadian senator, so like not a real senator, but
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, Um, that was a Canadian joke,
Speaker 1: not an Indigenous person's joke. I'm making fun of Canadians. Um.
Speaker 1: Senator Murray Sinclair, who's who's one of Canada's relatively few
Speaker 1: Indigenous or First Nations senators got angry because Peterson was
Speaker 1: furthering stereotypes about drunken Native Americans. That's like goes back
Speaker 1: a long way. Um. And he also got kind of
Speaker 1: angry because it's pretty shitty to call Indigenous people indians.
Speaker 1: Um do that. There's I think different terms that kind
Speaker 1: of people, certain people prefer, but no one seems to
Speaker 1: like Indian. Um, let's not let's not use that one. Um.
Speaker 1: One of Jordan's friends defended him by pointing at the
Speaker 1: guy he had sent the tweet too, defended him by
Speaker 1: pointing out that the joke that they were telling about
Speaker 1: this Indian bartender was about a real incident with a
Speaker 1: quote self identified Indian bartender who had duped Peterson's friend
Speaker 1: out of a bottle of bourbon the night before Peterson
Speaker 1: was set to become an honorary member of the Quaquaca
Speaker 1: Wock tribe. Um. Now, all of this, I'm trying to
Speaker 1: get it right. I looked it up in everything. I
Speaker 1: don't normally do that, but yeah, um, all of this,
Speaker 1: Hurwitz seemed to suggest was evidence that Peterson was not
Speaker 1: biased against Native Americans, which is a statement that Peterson like,
Speaker 1: liked and seconded on Twitter. Um. So, Peterson has repeatedly
Speaker 1: brought up the fact that he was inducted into the
Speaker 1: Quaquaca Wock tribe in order to defend himself from allegations
Speaker 1: of racism. Into this and seventeen when a commentary on
Speaker 1: Facebook suggested that he was a klansman. So this guy
Speaker 1: on Facebook is like, you're basically you're in the KKK,
Speaker 1: Peterson responded, if by KKK you mean Quaquaco lock of
Speaker 1: whose nation I am a members? How it works? Short?
Speaker 1: Very very good. Now. A reporter from a Canadian online magazine,
Speaker 1: The Walrus, dug into this, and he found that Peterson
Speaker 1: also claimed on the jacket of his book Twelve Routs
Speaker 1: for Life that he had been inducted into the coastal
Speaker 1: Pacific Quaquaca Walk Tribe. The reality of the situation as
Speaker 1: the water was found was very different. Um there is
Speaker 1: a quack walk a Walk artist named Charles Joseph Um
Speaker 1: and numerous interviewers will note that Peterson's house is full
Speaker 1: of Joseph's work, and we don't know what Peterson did
Speaker 1: for Charles Joseph, but it was something really incredible and
Speaker 1: like that he that that Charles Joseph like was deeply
Speaker 1: impacted by. It was something meaningful enough that Charles Joseph
Speaker 1: performed a special ritual to induct Jordan Peterson into his
Speaker 1: family and as a result, he considers Jordan Peterson to
Speaker 1: be a brother. There's obviously a huge honor and it
Speaker 1: seems it's very clear that Jordan did something incredible to
Speaker 1: help Charles. But as the walr was dubbed, they found
Speaker 1: out that both Charles Joseph and the Quakwaka Walk tribe
Speaker 1: disagree with Peterson's claims that he's been inducted into the
Speaker 1: tribe because he was not Um. He was inducted into
Speaker 1: Charles Joseph's family, but not into the tribe itself. It's
Speaker 1: a very different thing, and it's a very important distinction.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, um, And it's Peterson kind of claiming
Speaker 1: that he's a part of this tribe in order to
Speaker 1: deflect allegations of racism is a kind of dishonesty I
Speaker 1: find particularly off putting because the real story is perfectly honorable,
Speaker 1: like you helped this man out to such a degree
Speaker 1: that he inducted you into his family, and especially like
Speaker 1: that's a that's something absolutely yeah, yeah, but he's not
Speaker 1: what he's saying, and especially like in terms of like
Speaker 1: what he's using the fake story to try to prove. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's the kind of thing were he to respond to
Speaker 1: someone calling him racist with, well, actually, this one indigenous
Speaker 1: person I know, like I did something so good for
Speaker 1: him that he indefted me into his family. That would
Speaker 1: sound kind of like gross and weird and like you
Speaker 1: were kind of like and it wouldn't be nearly a
Speaker 1: snappy saying I'm a member of the Quakako tribe, So like,
Speaker 1: how could I be racist? Like one of them makes
Speaker 1: a better debate point, and also the more honest version
Speaker 1: makes it clear like hey, dude, you it seems like
Speaker 1: you might be kind of like um cashing in on this, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're using kind of weird thing to like prove this
Speaker 1: other thing. Yeah, it doesn't, it doesn't prove it anyway.
Speaker 1: But also it's weird that you're using this to prove it. Yeah. Now,
Speaker 1: the reality is that Jordan Peterson is someone who regularly
Speaker 1: traffics in a kind of intellectual quasi bigotry masquerading as
Speaker 1: intellectual curiosity. Some of his best lines include the idea
Speaker 1: that women are were oppressed throughout history is an appalling theory,
Speaker 1: and Islamophobia is a word created by fascists and used
Speaker 1: by cowards to manipulate morons. White privileges a Marxist lie,
Speaker 1: and believing that gender identity is subjective is as bad
Speaker 1: as claiming that the world is flat? Oh is it?
Speaker 1: It's as bad as that. That's good. That's good. That's
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of stuff, um from good
Speaker 1: old Jordan's The i Q stuff is wild. Yeah, very
Speaker 1: very rarely he um yeah not not not. I'm not
Speaker 1: convinced by Jordan Peterson. Jordan B. Peterson, fake, fake, inducted
Speaker 1: into a real tribe. It's weird, not not as compelling
Speaker 1: as he thinks it is. No now Like Joseph Campbell,
Speaker 1: who we talked about in our first episode. Jordan Peterson's
Speaker 1: primary focus seems to have been Marxism, and it seems
Speaker 1: like this probably started because he considered his fellow professors
Speaker 1: to have been Marxist um and that that kind of
Speaker 1: he generalized his frustration with these specific people who disagreed
Speaker 1: with him because he hates it we need disagree with
Speaker 1: him into a broader fear that Marxists worldwide we're in
Speaker 1: the process of conquering every aspect of Western civilization. Peterson
Speaker 1: tended to use the term postmodern neo Marxism or cultural
Speaker 1: Marxism to essentially refer to the same idea. With the
Speaker 1: fall of the USSR, Marxist lost the war with capitalism,
Speaker 1: so they decided they had to sneak into the education
Speaker 1: system and like brainwashed children's heads with, in Peterson's words, vicious, untenable,
Speaker 1: and anti human ideas. That's how I would describe some
Speaker 1: of his ideas. One anti human idea in Jordan's Reckoning
Speaker 1: is that a college professor might get in trouble if
Speaker 1: he specifically refused to refer to a transperson by their
Speaker 1: chosen pronouns. Out of spite. That's to human anti human? Yeah,
Speaker 1: oh my god, Jordan's yeah, it's like the live literally
Speaker 1: the opposite. Like we all have things that frustrate us
Speaker 1: in society. These can be reasonable or not. I am
Speaker 1: angry that every time I want to just drink one
Speaker 1: or two beers or a fifth of vodka while driving
Speaker 1: my four Runner through a trailer park and firing out
Speaker 1: of the window with an AK forty seven, people get
Speaker 1: really angry and the police show up, Like, I find
Speaker 1: that anti human, But I understand that, like I, you know,
Speaker 1: part of living in society is that you you take
Speaker 1: certain actions or don't take certain actions, because everyone agrees
Speaker 1: things work better when you're not shooting up trailer parks
Speaker 1: drunkenly in your for Runner all the time. Yes, they do.
Speaker 1: That's a society that's humans. It's that's human. That's the
Speaker 1: way society will be until I want win my my
Speaker 1: congressional campaign. Yeah, and introduce the drunk driving in trailer
Speaker 1: parks while firing out the window bill, which openly openly
Speaker 1: a vote for me. Yeah. Yeah. So, in a battle
Speaker 1: with stakes as high as the survival of Western civilization,
Speaker 1: Dr Peterson is willing to justify fighting dirty. He calls
Speaker 1: ideas he disagrees within debates silly, ridiculous, absurd, insane. Debates
Speaker 1: are described as combat, and his followers seemed to respond
Speaker 1: well to this. In a few seconds of searching, it
Speaker 1: took no time at all. I found videos titled Jordan
Speaker 1: Peterson destroys Islam in fifteen seconds more than two million views,
Speaker 1: Jordan Peterson Destroying Feminists, a compilation video with three forty
Speaker 1: nine thousand views, and watch angry Jordan Peterson get up
Speaker 1: and destroy student who tried to smear him seven forty
Speaker 1: one thousand views. Now the fundamentally combative nature of the debates,
Speaker 1: Peterson prefers to engage him. Let him to tell Camille
Speaker 1: Paglia in a two thousand seventeen interview, if you're talking
Speaker 1: to a man who wouldn't fight with you under any
Speaker 1: circumstances whatsoever, then you're talking to someone for whom you
Speaker 1: have absolutely no respect. He went on to explain that
Speaker 1: he has more trouble dealing with crazy women because he
Speaker 1: cannot hit them. How can you argue with someone if
Speaker 1: you can't, exactly if you don't, If you don't, it's
Speaker 1: also like this is wild because he's also the kind
Speaker 1: of guy would be like, well, don't punch a Nazi, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: Well yeah, Antifa's bad because they punched Nazis. Also, I
Speaker 1: don't respect anyone who won't fight exactly um uh, consistently, inconsistent,
Speaker 1: it's a beautiful thing. And all of that might make
Speaker 1: you think that Dr Jordan Balthazar Peterson might be less
Speaker 1: of a free speech buff than he appears to be.
Speaker 1: The Guardian even notes quote Peterson's commitment to unfettered free
Speaker 1: speech is questionable. Once you believe in a powerful and
Speaker 1: maligned conspiracy, you start to justify extreme measures. Last July,
Speaker 1: he announced plans to launch a website that would help
Speaker 1: students and parents identify and avoid corrupt courses with postmodern
Speaker 1: content within five years. He hoped this would starve postmodern
Speaker 1: neo Marxist cult classes and do oblivion. Peterson shelved the
Speaker 1: plan after a backlash, acknowledging that it might add excessively
Speaker 1: to current polarization. Who could have predicted that blacklisting fellow
Speaker 1: professors might exacerbate polarization? Apparently not the most influential public,
Speaker 1: if intellectual in the Western world. Yeah, yeah, he likes
Speaker 1: suing people too. He he loves suing people maybe, Like
Speaker 1: it's just like, imagine what he would say if anyone
Speaker 1: else did the same thing about him or the things
Speaker 1: that he says. Just imagine what his response would be
Speaker 1: to that, And like the idea that he needed a
Speaker 1: backlash to be like, oh maybe this would maybe this
Speaker 1: would cause some problems. Yep, maybe maybe maybe maybe so.
Speaker 1: Jridan made buckets of money into Doant seventeen, but his
Speaker 1: depression and his persistent feelings of imminent doom continued to
Speaker 1: follow him. He told the Ottawa Citizen quote, in a
Speaker 1: sensible world, I would have got my fifteen minutes of fame.
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm surfing a giant wave and it
Speaker 1: could come crashing down and wipe me out. Or I
Speaker 1: could write it and continue. All of those options are
Speaker 1: equally plausible. Keep that in mind too now. Meanwhile, people
Speaker 1: who had befriended, supported, and aided Jordan throughout his career
Speaker 1: increased increasingly felt frightened and betrayed by the path he
Speaker 1: was taking. His old mentor, Professor Schiff, wrote that things
Speaker 1: between them grew heated after Peterson's famous opposition to see
Speaker 1: sixteen quote. This is from Professor Schiff. I have a
Speaker 1: trans daughter, but that was hardly an issue compared to
Speaker 1: what I felt was a betrayal of my trust and
Speaker 1: confidence in him. It was an abuse of the trust
Speaker 1: that comes with his professorial position, which I had fought for.
Speaker 1: To have misrepresented gender science by dismissing the evidence that
Speaker 1: the relationship of gender to biology is not absolute, and
Speaker 1: to have made the claim that he could be jailed
Speaker 1: when it worst he could be fined. In his defense,
Speaker 1: Jordan told me that if he refused to pay the fine,
Speaker 1: he could go to jail. That is not the same
Speaker 1: as being jailed for what you say. But it did
Speaker 1: ennoble him as a would be martyr in the defense
Speaker 1: of free speech. Yeah, um, it did, and he knows that. Um.
Speaker 1: A lot of his behavior Ine is uh. It becomes
Speaker 1: very clear, like I'm talking about earlier in the pres episode,
Speaker 1: about his sort of whether it was intentional or not.
Speaker 1: Research into what what influences people and how to get
Speaker 1: people on board with something with an idea, with an
Speaker 1: ideology with belief the capital B belief, what, why, how
Speaker 1: and why do people believe? Um? And what brings people
Speaker 1: to to believe in like authoritarianism. Um and it Yeah,
Speaker 1: he he knows, he knows what he's doing. He knows,
Speaker 1: he knows exactly what he's doing. He knows he knows
Speaker 1: exactly what he's doing. Um. Yeah, it's a he knows.
Speaker 1: He knows a lot of things that he pretends to
Speaker 1: not know. It's wild even just like watching clips of
Speaker 1: him talk about different things, Uh in similar ways. There's
Speaker 1: a you can find a few, uh, a few clips
Speaker 1: of him talking on various podcasts about Hitler specifically and
Speaker 1: the rise of Hitler. Sometimes he rationalizes it. It's like, well,
Speaker 1: if you have this chaos, you you look for somebody
Speaker 1: to bring order and make sense of that. Uh. It
Speaker 1: could be it could be viewed as like Hitler apologia.
Speaker 1: But um, given the benefit of the doubt and just say, uh,
Speaker 1: he is explaining what people, uh, we're feeling. During the
Speaker 1: rise of Nazi Germany. He has a whole video on
Speaker 1: like you would have been a Nazi and like people
Speaker 1: if you were there, you probably would have been a Nazi.
Speaker 1: That's how the culture and society works. Um. And I
Speaker 1: don't think Jordan Peterson is a Nazi. He definitely would
Speaker 1: have been one. Also, Yeah, most people weren't Nazis until
Speaker 1: the Nazi Like, even when the Nazis were in power,
Speaker 1: Nazi Party membership was was not everybody Yeah, like yeah,
Speaker 1: Jordan's is Um, I don't know. I do the same thing.
Speaker 1: The episode that's running the week that we're recording this
Speaker 1: is largely about how normal people became Nazis and how
Speaker 1: they The scariest thing about it is that a lot
Speaker 1: of people who were not monsters supported the Nazi Party
Speaker 1: because of a lot of really uncomfortable realities of the
Speaker 1: human condition. I think there's a responsible way, in an
Speaker 1: irresponsible way to talk about that. The responsible way is
Speaker 1: to try to inform people of the dangers in their
Speaker 1: own thinking and the dangers in just sort of like
Speaker 1: people's desire for safety and stability that can lead them
Speaker 1: to support at least tacit least terrible things, and being like, well,
Speaker 1: you would have supported the Nazis, so like, why are
Speaker 1: you judgmental about Nazis? Yeah? Um yeah. And he even
Speaker 1: has um. In contrast, you can hear him talk about
Speaker 1: Trump a little bit in UM and in describing the
Speaker 1: appeal of Donald Trump, it is uh indistinguishable from him
Speaker 1: talking about Hitler um Internet of the the chaos and
Speaker 1: the order and the things that people want and the
Speaker 1: their fears, and how Trump is capitalizing on that. But
Speaker 1: he doesn't make you ever make that connection. He's never
Speaker 1: he uh presents it as positive um and not something
Speaker 1: to be concerned about. He's never really criticized Donald Trump
Speaker 1: for any of those reasons, while at the same time
Speaker 1: ever talking about Hitler being uh the exact same way.
Speaker 1: You can enter it. You can replace the names and
Speaker 1: it would still be um. It would sound the same. Now, Cody,
Speaker 1: you know who won't apologize for the rise of fascism?
Speaker 1: Do they make beautiful, beautiful weapons? Oh well, Raytheon No,
Speaker 1: of course not. Raytheon would never apologize for anything. That's
Speaker 1: why you buy Raytheon products. Raytheon never apologize, never apologize.
Speaker 1: Here's some other ats M. We're back. Ah. So now
Speaker 1: we were talking about Schiff, Professor Schiff Jordan Peterson's old
Speaker 1: mentor um and kind of like that writer with The
Speaker 1: Guardian we quitted earlier, Shift is particularly concerned with Peterson's
Speaker 1: conditional support of free speech. He knows Peterson well and
Speaker 1: he began to see some pretty fashy tendencies from his friend,
Speaker 1: Chief Among them were Peterson's relentless focus on transgender and
Speaker 1: gender nonconforming people. And here's something that's basically what you
Speaker 1: said earlier. Cody Jordan has studied and understands authoritarian demagogic leaders.
Speaker 1: They know how to attract the following. In an interview
Speaker 1: with Ethan Klein in an H three podcast, Jordan describes
Speaker 1: as such, leaders learned to repeat those things which make
Speaker 1: the crowd roar, and not repeat those things that do not.
Speaker 1: The crowd roared the first time Jordan opposed the so
Speaker 1: called transgender agenda, perhaps they would roar again, whether it
Speaker 1: made sense or not. But why transgender in the first place.
Speaker 1: In that same interview, Jordan's cites Carl Young, who talked
Speaker 1: about the effectiveness of powerful emotional oratorical skills to tap
Speaker 1: into the collective unconscious of a people and into their anger, resentment,
Speaker 1: fear of chaos, and need for order. He talked about
Speaker 1: how those demagogic leaders led by acting out the dark
Speaker 1: desires of the momb yep, yeah, yeah, got them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean that's yeah, that's it's it's when you just
Speaker 1: a little delving in, you really see what he's doing. Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: not hard, not not super complicated. Two eighteen, a massive
Speaker 1: douche canoe named Eric Weinstein first used the term intellectual
Speaker 1: dark Web on Sam Harris's Waking Up podcast. Now the
Speaker 1: official Intellectual Dark Web website lists him as a vanguard
Speaker 1: of the I d W, alongside Dr Jordan Peterson. Interestingly,
Speaker 1: it calls Erica left wing person, which is fun because
Speaker 1: he's the managing director of Teel Capital. Why is he
Speaker 1: never he never address that, no one ever brings it up,
Speaker 1: it's wild. Then he can still make that claim, unbelieve.
Speaker 1: What is funny is that while Peterson himself doesn't like
Speaker 1: to identify his right wing, the Intellectual Dark Web website
Speaker 1: does identify him his right wing because like a whole
Speaker 1: part of its whole thing is that these guys are
Speaker 1: people who come from every side of the political spectrum,
Speaker 1: who exactly yes, I'll read you. How the web site
Speaker 1: describes the men of the Intellectual Dark Web. They all
Speaker 1: share two distinct and now uncommon qualities. First, they are
Speaker 1: willing to disagree fiercely but talk civilly about nearly every
Speaker 1: meaningful subject where they of public discourse. Religion, abortion, gender identity, race, immigration,
Speaker 1: the nature of consciousness. Many of the opinions they hold
Speaker 1: on such topics can sometimes be in contrast with the
Speaker 1: orthodox opinion of their respective tribe. Second, they are intellectually
Speaker 1: honest and thus resists parroting what's politically convenient or politically correct.
Speaker 1: Notable that not on that list of things worth discussing
Speaker 1: as economics. That's weird, that's funny. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know.
Speaker 1: We've got religion, abortion, gender, identity, race, immigration, the nature
Speaker 1: of consciousness, all the things that are worth talking about it.
Speaker 1: Those are all those are all the things not economics,
Speaker 1: because all of these people are rich as shit. And
Speaker 1: then because the same thing they agree on, Oh my god,
Speaker 1: there's a list of people is really depressing. It's it's awesome.
Speaker 1: It fucking rules, dude. So yeah. Later in two thousand eighteen,
Speaker 1: New York Times editor Barry Weiss published a fawning article
Speaker 1: on this set titled Meet the Renegades of the Intellectual
Speaker 1: Dark Web. Fuck beautiful. It's beautiful. Of those man, I
Speaker 1: will argue, sit alone in your own room and read
Speaker 1: the title of that New York Times article to yourself
Speaker 1: while looking at the picture that leads the article, and
Speaker 1: tell me that you don't full a second inhabit the
Speaker 1: mental space of a high school bully who just wants
Speaker 1: to dunk someone's head in a toilet, Like, just just
Speaker 1: do it. Try it. Do your best to not feel
Speaker 1: that it's a look God speaking, because my god, oh
Speaker 1: my god, that photo. Take another one. It's amazing. Did
Speaker 1: you have like a one shot left? Yeah, it's a
Speaker 1: bad article about people I hate, in some cases, people
Speaker 1: I personally hate, because Claire Lemon's on there and clear
Speaker 1: Lyman basically said it was okay that really wonderful people
Speaker 1: like Jason Wilson of The Guardian, who's one of the
Speaker 1: best reporters in the entire country, deserve to have death
Speaker 1: threats put against him because clear Lyman sucks. She's the editor.
Speaker 1: She's trashed. Um. You can read the article if you want.
Speaker 1: But the fact that nearly all these guys have only
Speaker 1: grown less relevant in the last two years ought to
Speaker 1: say something. But during the first half of the Trump regime,
Speaker 1: Jordan B. Peterson never found a culture war. He wouldn't
Speaker 1: throw some bullets towards. When James dam Or, the Google engineer,
Speaker 1: was filed for writing about the company's ideological echo chamber,
Speaker 1: Peterson spoke out in his defense. He repeatedly brought the
Speaker 1: engineer up in debates as evidence that talk about discrimination
Speaker 1: of marginalized groups was overblown and white men were the
Speaker 1: real victims. In part on the strength of his endorsement
Speaker 1: by Peterson and other I d w Types, James dem
Speaker 1: Or filed a lawsuit against Google. He dropped it earlier
Speaker 1: this year, with the exact nature of the resolution unknown.
Speaker 1: Harmy Dylan I think was the lawyer in charge of
Speaker 1: that case who also threatened me with a lawsuit for
Speaker 1: telling the truth about Andy Know, which is that he's
Speaker 1: a giant piece of ship and a grifter. I ignored
Speaker 1: the lawsuit, fuck it like he did, never did anything
Speaker 1: because it was It's a thing that lawyers do sometimes
Speaker 1: if they're shady, where they like throw out bullshit, cease
Speaker 1: and assists just try to stop speech they don't like.
Speaker 1: Because people think that there's actually legal weight behind those things.
Speaker 1: Generally isn't fuck them. Yeah, So it's worth noting that
Speaker 1: there were basically no stories about James dam Or from
Speaker 1: likeeen up until the case was dropped earlier this year.
Speaker 1: The only other article I found mentioning him recently was
Speaker 1: a Telegraph article about how a bunch of Silicon Valley
Speaker 1: firms were hiring white supremacy consultants to avoid bringing people
Speaker 1: like Damron in the future, which is funny because Harmona
Speaker 1: Dylan was like, Oh, this case is really going to
Speaker 1: make them think twice before they do this again. And
Speaker 1: what it actually made them do is be like, oh,
Speaker 1: we actually need to hire people to make sure we're
Speaker 1: not hiring white supremacists. This seems to be a problem.
Speaker 1: It's very funny. That's very funny. The little joys, it's
Speaker 1: little things. It's the little things in life you treasure.
Speaker 1: On January sixteenth, two thousand eighteen, Jordan Balthazar Peterson published
Speaker 1: his second book, Twelve Rules for Life and Antidote to Chaos.
Speaker 1: Unlike the sprawling and complex Maps of Meaning, Twelve Rules
Speaker 1: is short, pointed and targeted directly at insecure men. Peterson
Speaker 1: writes men have to toughen up. Men demand it, and
Speaker 1: women want it. His first rule is stand up straight
Speaker 1: with your shoulders back, and of course that's not a
Speaker 1: bad thing. Good posture is perfectly healthy, and it's goods
Speaker 1: of us good to stand to have better posture. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: most of his rules are not inherently unreasonable and In fact,
Speaker 1: part of what he did in this book was right
Speaker 1: out something that basically anyone could read through and be like,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, that's pretty reasonable stuff. It is standard self
Speaker 1: health help book. It is very general advice, be like,
Speaker 1: believe in yourself, like that there's some ship, sinister ship
Speaker 1: under the surface, which we talk about. But I want
Speaker 1: to summarize the main points he makes. The main Rules
Speaker 1: for Life. A Psychology Today article written by the same
Speaker 1: PhD who reviewed Maps of Meaning. We quoted from that earlier,
Speaker 1: and we'll quote from it a little bit too, summarizes
Speaker 1: the surface content of twelve rules for Life. Thus, Lee,
Speaker 1: stand up for yourself, take care of yourself, make friends,
Speaker 1: don't compare yourself to others. Mind your children, set your
Speaker 1: house in order, pursue meaning, tell the truth, listen to people,
Speaker 1: be precise, Give children freedom, and enjoy pets the day.
Speaker 1: I don't disagree with any of that. Fine enough, Mind
Speaker 1: your children, Give your children freedom. Yeah, you gotta do both.
Speaker 1: You gotta do both. Interesting thing about the mind your
Speaker 1: children is that the real rule is don't let your
Speaker 1: child do anything that makes you dislike them. Yeah anyway, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: That review continues part of Peterson's appeal comes through lively
Speaker 1: stories from the Bible, fairy tales, his personal life, and
Speaker 1: his practice as a clinical psychologist. All benign enough again,
Speaker 1: but it's when you read into the book that fucked
Speaker 1: up ship starts to bubble up. Like the line consciousness
Speaker 1: is symbolically masculine and has been since the beginning of time,
Speaker 1: and also the soul of the individual eternally hungers for
Speaker 1: the heroism of genuine being. Now. I don't know how
Speaker 1: that line reads to Normy's um, but it seems pretty
Speaker 1: fashy to me, and also to Penka's Mishra, who wrote
Speaker 1: that article about fascist mysticism, and Jordan Peterson for the
Speaker 1: New York Review of Books, Pankaj writes that Peter person
Speaker 1: basically positions his book as an answer to the crisis
Speaker 1: facing Western civilization. Quote. Peterson diagnoses this crisis as a
Speaker 1: loss of faith in old verities in the West. He writes,
Speaker 1: we have been withdrawing from our tradition, religion, and even
Speaker 1: nation centered cultures. Peterson offers to alleviate the resulting desperation
Speaker 1: of meaninglessness with a return to ancient wisdom. It is
Speaker 1: possible to avoid nihilism, he asserts, and to find sufficient
Speaker 1: meaning and individual consciousness and experience with the help of
Speaker 1: the great myths and religious stories of the past quote
Speaker 1: following Carl Young. Peterson identifies archetypes in myths, dreams, and religions,
Speaker 1: which have apparently defined truths of the human conditions since
Speaker 1: the beginning of time culture. One of his typical arguments
Speaker 1: goes is symbolically archetypeally mythically male, and this is why
Speaker 1: resistance to male dominance is unnatural. Men represent order and chaos.
Speaker 1: The unknown is symbolically associated with the feminine. Now, mm hmm.
Speaker 1: Reading all that, nah, it's sucket. Reading all of this
Speaker 1: made me think back to that first Psychology Today review,
Speaker 1: the one that focused on maps of meaning quote. The
Speaker 1: assumption of the cultural universality of myths is important for
Speaker 1: Peterson because he wants mythology to provide the basis for
Speaker 1: the psychological, philosophical, and political understanding of morality. But his
Speaker 1: evidence for the generality of such myths is limited to
Speaker 1: the tradition that runs from Mesopotamia through Judaism to Christianity,
Speaker 1: with occasional references to Buddhism. Counter examples to cultural universality
Speaker 1: are abundant, such as the Piraja people of Brazil, who
Speaker 1: have no creation myths or interest in beliefs that go
Speaker 1: beyond personal experience. The Iroquois people of North America do
Speaker 1: have myths about creation and other aspects of the world,
Speaker 1: but they do not follow the father, mother's son motif
Speaker 1: that Peterson thinks is universal. Chinese mythology includes many gods
Speaker 1: but no indication of the heroic son that Peterson over
Speaker 1: generalizes from Christianity. So again, Peterson would never be so
Speaker 1: crude to, like a proud boy, declare that West is
Speaker 1: best or advocate for open white supremacy, because that would
Speaker 1: be risking his following and his money. Instead, he declares
Speaker 1: that the myths he uses to base his morals them
Speaker 1: that he thinks everyone should follow in the whole world,
Speaker 1: that those myths are universal to all cultures, while deliberately
Speaker 1: excluding any discussion of cultures whose myths don't support his beliefs.
Speaker 1: It's a kind of internal ideological ethnic cleansing, and Jordan B.
Speaker 1: Peterson is very good at it. In interviews, Dr Peterson
Speaker 1: is clear that fascism and authoritarianism is bad. At the
Speaker 1: same time, he regularly reinforces the arguments made by fascists
Speaker 1: and authoritarians in his work. From the New York Review
Speaker 1: of Books quote, those embattled against political correctness on university
Speaker 1: campuses will heartily endorse Peterson's claim that there are whole
Speaker 1: disciplines and universities forthrightly hostile towards men. Islamophobes will take
Speaker 1: heart from his speculation that feminists avoid criticizing Islam because
Speaker 1: they unconsciously long for masculine dominance. Libertarians will cheer Peterson's
Speaker 1: glorification of the individual striver and his stern message to
Speaker 1: the left behinds maybe it's not the world that's at fault.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's you. You fail to make the mark. The
Speaker 1: demagogues of our age don't read much, but as they
Speaker 1: ruthlessly crack down on refugees and immigrants, they can derive
Speaker 1: much philosophical backup from Peterson's sub chapter headings Compassion is
Speaker 1: a vice and toughen up, you weasel. That's yeah, yep, yep,
Speaker 1: it's all there. He's he's really skilled at not saying
Speaker 1: it's not saying quite not. He gets you a little,
Speaker 1: he gets you there. He's laying the foundation. Yeah. And
Speaker 1: and that article on Peterson and fascist mysticism gets into
Speaker 1: what's problematic about stuff like compassions, device and toughened up,
Speaker 1: you weasel, problematic beyond what you might initially assume. Quote.
Speaker 1: Peterson rails today against softness, arguing that men have been
Speaker 1: pushed too hard to feminize, and his best selling book Degeneration,
Speaker 1: the Zionist critic Max Nordau amplified more than a century
Speaker 1: before Peterson the fear that empires and nations of the
Speaker 1: West are populated by the weak will, the effeminate, and
Speaker 1: the degenerate. The French philosopher Georges Sorel identified myth is
Speaker 1: the necessary antidote to decadence and spur to rejuvenation and
Speaker 1: intellectual inspiration to fascists across Europe. Sorel was particularly nostalgic
Speaker 1: about the patriarchal systems of ancient Israel and Greece. It
Speaker 1: was against this eerie fem of your background, a revolt
Speaker 1: against the modern world, As the title of a Volas
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty four book put it, that demagogues emerged so
Speaker 1: quickly in twentieth century Europe and managed to exalt national
Speaker 1: and racial myths is the true source of individual and
Speaker 1: collective health. The drastic individual makeover demanded by the visionaries
Speaker 1: turned out to require a mass, coercid retreat from failed
Speaker 1: liberal modernity into an idealized traditional realm of myth and
Speaker 1: ritual that all scans real real Well yeah, um yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a h uh, there's a ah, there's just a
Speaker 1: lot there. He doesn't it's yeah, it's it's like it's this,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's the constant rejective of modernity. And it's
Speaker 1: like it's contempt for the week is what it really
Speaker 1: comes down to. Uh, like contempt for and resentment of
Speaker 1: what you perceive as weakness or weak people, weak types
Speaker 1: of people, weeks way, weak ways of thinking. Um. And
Speaker 1: uh again it's not like on its face, you're not
Speaker 1: like that's fascism, but like you just like a little
Speaker 1: dig a little deeper, scratch a little bit, or like
Speaker 1: go a little further to what like what's the next step,
Speaker 1: what's the law's like extrapolate for a bit, what do
Speaker 1: you think should happen? Then? Um? Also side note, I
Speaker 1: think his weird thing about we need to get back
Speaker 1: to like why all the Marxist there, we're getting away
Speaker 1: from nation centered cultures. Do you think like maybe part
Speaker 1: of just like the natural reason that we're getting away
Speaker 1: from the nation centered cultures is because, like the Internet
Speaker 1: connects people instantly across the globe, and like we as
Speaker 1: humans are like evolving across the like's. Yeah, maybe if
Speaker 1: you have a bunch of friends who like, because of
Speaker 1: some weird lines on a map, can't ever visit you
Speaker 1: or you can't visit them, maybe you start to be like,
Speaker 1: oh huh, it seems like a bad idea. We should
Speaker 1: do something else. Maybe the best I da for how
Speaker 1: we organized the world wasn't thought up like hundreds of
Speaker 1: years ago. By yeah, there's a better thing than nations, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: what not nations? What about horizontal methods of social organization
Speaker 1: that avoid vesting unreasonable powers in individual human beings who
Speaker 1: are never fit to wield it. I don't know, sorry,
Speaker 1: I'm just your anti hercle. I'm anti human. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's anti human for sure. It's anti human. Urging us
Speaker 1: to be more connected and equal across the globe is
Speaker 1: anti human. Very good, yes, fundamentally, which is why I'm
Speaker 1: very pro robot and why my entire house is nothing
Speaker 1: but Amazon Alexas and a filthy mattress. Now in maps
Speaker 1: of meeting Jordan Peterson analyzed a number of authoritarian regimes
Speaker 1: and totalitarian crimes. He came away with the conclusion that
Speaker 1: the heroic individual was the only way that to avoid
Speaker 1: such horrors. On page three, he notes the hero rejects
Speaker 1: identification with the group as the ideal of life, preferring
Speaker 1: to follow the dictates of his conscience and his heart.
Speaker 1: His identification with meaning and his refusal to sacrifice meaning
Speaker 1: for security renders existence acceptable despite its tragedy, And on
Speaker 1: page four eight three, A society predicated upon belief in
Speaker 1: the paramount divinity of the individual allows paramount interest to
Speaker 1: flourish and to serve as the power that opposes the
Speaker 1: tyranny of culture and the terror of nature. It's really
Speaker 1: it's just like really good at obvious skating. Uh, he's
Speaker 1: saying with his language. Yeah, it's fake profundity to convince
Speaker 1: people that anything you're not, you don't personally like, is
Speaker 1: an assault on you. But anything you want to do,
Speaker 1: if someone tries to stop you, it means that they're
Speaker 1: they're bad culture or whatever. Yeah, you know who likes
Speaker 1: cults of heroism Nazis Nazis Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: and it's also worth noting that not only does Nazi
Speaker 1: or fascism in particular, as umberto Eco noted, have an
Speaker 1: obsession with the cult of the hero, but also the
Speaker 1: story of fascisms rise in Europe is the story of
Speaker 1: a lot of individual heroic people who failed to stop
Speaker 1: Nazism from happening. You can say the same thing for
Speaker 1: the horrible crimes committed in you know, the USSR and
Speaker 1: Malis China. There were a lot of decent, individual heroic
Speaker 1: people who were like, this is a bad idea, we
Speaker 1: shouldn't do this, and they didn't get their way because
Speaker 1: individuals have very limited power. And perhaps if people in
Speaker 1: say bym Our Germany, had been less obsessed with their
Speaker 1: own personal lives and their own personal political opinions, with
Speaker 1: cleaning their room, so to speak, and perhaps if more
Speaker 1: of them had been willing to get out on the
Speaker 1: street and organized together and physically resist, perhaps the Nazis
Speaker 1: and would not have risen the way that it did.
Speaker 1: Perhaps perhaps count counterpoint um the idea of consciousness within
Speaker 1: our trails off and then we give him money right
Speaker 1: until yeah, exactly, just like Peterson views totalitarianism as a
Speaker 1: spiritual problem. According to Psychology Today, He contends that it
Speaker 1: is the result of neglecting the moral tradition rooted in Christianity.
Speaker 1: The best way to resolve this problem is spiritual, based
Speaker 1: on the divinity of the individual. For Peterson, the solution
Speaker 1: to totalitarianism is a combination of religion and individualism. Now,
Speaker 1: I happen to find this fascinating when you juxtapose it
Speaker 1: with a passage from another wonderful book about Peterson in
Speaker 1: The New Yorker it notes, or another wonderful article about
Speaker 1: Peterson in The New Yorker it notes. Peterson seems to
Speaker 1: view Trump, by contrast, as a symptom of modern problems,
Speaker 1: rather than a cause of them. He suggests that Trump's
Speaker 1: rise was unfortunate but inevitable, part of the same process
Speaker 1: he writes as the rise of the far right politicians
Speaker 1: in Europe. If men are pushed too hard to feminize,
Speaker 1: he warns, they will become more and more interested in harsh,
Speaker 1: fascist political ideology. Peterson sometimes asks audiences to view him
Speaker 1: as an alternative to political excesses on both sides. During
Speaker 1: an interview on BBC Radio five, he said, I've had
Speaker 1: thousands of letters from people who are tempted by the
Speaker 1: blandishments of the radical right who moved towards the reasonable
Speaker 1: center as a consequence of watching my videos. But he
Speaker 1: typically sees liberals or leftists or postmodernists as aggressors, which
Speaker 1: leads him rather ironically to frame some of those on
Speaker 1: the radical right as victims. Yeah, yeah, he does that. Um,
Speaker 1: it's it's interesting because there's uh, I mean, I don't
Speaker 1: think it's controversial to say that Donald Trump and the
Speaker 1: rise of Trump is a symptom of society's problems as
Speaker 1: opposed to the cause of them. Sure, but it is
Speaker 1: the cause of some problems. But yet Yeah, it's basically
Speaker 1: the cause of like a lot of our problems these
Speaker 1: days and exacerbates a lot of our problems. But like society,
Speaker 1: uh was suffering for a lot of reasons. And uh,
Speaker 1: that's what's strong men do. They They demagogue, They come in,
Speaker 1: they say I can solve I can fix all your problems. Um.
Speaker 1: But the way Jordan talks about it, uh, it's he
Speaker 1: it's justifying it. It's not like his his his prescription
Speaker 1: is not oh yeah, like this inequality or like this
Speaker 1: or like people's material needs or anything like that. It's like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: Trump was inevitable, and he's to bring order to the
Speaker 1: chaos because all these people are victims and they need
Speaker 1: a man to come in and solve their problems. Uh,
Speaker 1: and bring order to that chaos like another guy he's
Speaker 1: talked about in the exact same way. Um. Or another option,
Speaker 1: we could go to Mr Peterson and see what he
Speaker 1: wants us to do and just sort of listen to
Speaker 1: him and his every word. There's a little interview, Uh,
Speaker 1: I forget who was interviewing him. He's asked about his
Speaker 1: fans and his responses. I don't have fans, and he
Speaker 1: doesn't finish it. He hasn't finished his thought, but he
Speaker 1: does he does have followers, Yes he does. See that
Speaker 1: is the word he was alluding to. Yep, yep, yep.
Speaker 1: I may have to create a countercult to deal with
Speaker 1: his cult. Sophie Robert Sophie, can we um? Can we
Speaker 1: look into how many people I have to have worshiping
Speaker 1: my words in order to buy like an arms export license?
Speaker 1: And I don't know, create some sort of we should
Speaker 1: we should talk about this offline, um, But I I do.
Speaker 1: I think we should get maybe maybe loop the fine
Speaker 1: folks at raytheon and on that call, Yeah, this would
Speaker 1: be great. I'm gonna get that land in Idaho too.
Speaker 1: So Peterson talks a good game about the horrors of Nazism,
Speaker 1: but his rhetoric very often turns worryingly close to the
Speaker 1: exact same ship Nazi. Seems to say that. For example, liberals,
Speaker 1: he says, are always talking about the importance of compassion,
Speaker 1: and yet there's nothing more horrible for children and developing
Speaker 1: people than an excess of compassion. This horror, he says,
Speaker 1: is embodied in the figure of the Freudian devouring mother.
Speaker 1: As an example, he cites Ursula, the sea witch for
Speaker 1: the Little Mermaid. Oh he loves Disney. Oh he loves
Speaker 1: how Disneys is destroyed. And it's never like the like, yeah,
Speaker 1: Disney's like this media conglomer they own everything, and that's bad.
Speaker 1: But it's always like it's propaganda to tell you that
Speaker 1: your daughter can do what she wants. It's more to
Speaker 1: me his obsession and with how compassion is bad and
Speaker 1: how softness is a problem in society, because yeah, it's
Speaker 1: familiar if you read a funk load of Hitler speeches,
Speaker 1: because one of Hitler's favorite words was hardness and how
Speaker 1: people German Men needed to be harder like the Germany
Speaker 1: needed to raise up a generation that was as hard
Speaker 1: as kraft stall, which is like a specific kind of
Speaker 1: steel making weapons manufacturer. Yeah. Now, German Morgue Hitler thought
Speaker 1: that german Men were going to need to be as
Speaker 1: hard as steal if they were going to steer their
Speaker 1: nation back from the brink of despair, because it was
Speaker 1: going to require them to do unpleasant things. I want
Speaker 1: to quote now from an article in the Journal of
Speaker 1: Central European History by Thomas Coon. The article's title is
Speaker 1: Protean masculinity, hegemonic masculinity. Soldiers in the Third Reich, hegemonic
Speaker 1: masculinity and Nazi Germany, as well as in many militarized
Speaker 1: societies around the globe, meant physical, emotional, and moral hardness.
Speaker 1: The ideal man embodied by the soldier was tough and
Speaker 1: aggressive and control of his body, mind and psyche. He
Speaker 1: did not hesitate to sacrifice life and limb on behalf
Speaker 1: of the fatherland, or to subordinate his individuality under the
Speaker 1: command of a conformist group of comrades. Whereas many scholars
Speaker 1: have already stressed these features of hegemonic masculinity, this article
Speaker 1: argues that the act of soldiering provided men with a
Speaker 1: male identity that was ultimately not defined by the repudiation,
Speaker 1: but rather integration of what was and is often coded
Speaker 1: as feminine and the social practice of male interaction. Diversity
Speaker 1: and flexibility were needed, thus allowing for the display of
Speaker 1: femininely coded behavior like affection, tenderness, empathy, caring, and tolerance
Speaker 1: towards emotional breakdowns and moments of weakness in their midst
Speaker 1: Thanks to its inclusive nature, such protean masculinity enabled different
Speaker 1: types of soldier men to establish male identities. It also
Speaker 1: allowed them to switch among different emotional and moral states
Speaker 1: without losing their manliness. Yet this was true only if
Speaker 1: the predominance of hardness was respected. Eventually, protean masculinity integrated
Speaker 1: diverse men and diverse emotional and moral conditions into a
Speaker 1: fighting unit and, in the case of the Third Reich,
Speaker 1: into a gendicidal society. So this idea that like they
Speaker 1: had to they had to reject femininity, but also feminine
Speaker 1: traits or traits they considered feminine, were inherent aspects of
Speaker 1: the people they needed to make into soldiers. So the
Speaker 1: thing that was most important for the Nazis was developed
Speaker 1: this idea of hardness, and you could break down, you
Speaker 1: could be emotional, you could cry, you could be like
Speaker 1: fucked up by the violent acts you were committing. As
Speaker 1: long as you exhibited that hardness, that was all that mattered,
Speaker 1: because the essence of masculinity was a willingness to do
Speaker 1: hard things as specified by brutality, right like that, to
Speaker 1: do it anyway, even though you're gonna have that reaction
Speaker 1: to it, um, but you still do it. You can't
Speaker 1: still keep doing it m hm. Which is why there's
Speaker 1: actually quite a few stories about men like shooting thousands
Speaker 1: of Jewish people to death and like weeping while they
Speaker 1: did it, but like they still did it. They Yeah,
Speaker 1: they're hard, they're hard enough hard men. I'm proud of
Speaker 1: us for saying hardness this many times and not making
Speaker 1: an erection joke, Cody. I think we did a great job,
Speaker 1: and I think we're still doing a really good job,
Speaker 1: and referencing that didn't do it doesn't count us doing it,
Speaker 1: so it does not. I just think are the kind
Speaker 1: of heroism that we exhibited there should be celebrated. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it would say that, I don't know, you should celebrate Robbert,
Speaker 1: you know what will make erection jokes while quoting Hitler speeches.
Speaker 1: That's exactly what I was going to say. The products
Speaker 1: and services that support this podcast fantastic. I can't wait
Speaker 1: to hear both of those things said by them. We're back.
Speaker 1: So Jordan Peterson is just a teacher, you know, he's
Speaker 1: a lecturer, he's an author. And one might argue that
Speaker 1: it's silly to keep harping on what an obvious fascist
Speaker 1: the dude is, given his distance from any kind of
Speaker 1: actual power, But according to Professor Schiff, Dr Peterson has
Speaker 1: in fact seriously considered getting into politics and grabbing power.
Speaker 1: He seriously investigated the possibility of running for leadership of
Speaker 1: the federal Conservative Party of Canada. While he was discouraged
Speaker 1: in pursuing this by influential friends, he did stick his
Speaker 1: hand into Canadian politics, pushing Party leader Andrew Sheer to
Speaker 1: propose that Universe funding be cut by until politically correct
Speaker 1: schools were reined in. Yeah, might not be free speech
Speaker 1: if you're doing that, I'd say yeah. In two thousand nineteen,
Speaker 1: he went to d C where he lectured Congress about bipartisanship,
Speaker 1: which again might sound great if you don't remember the
Speaker 1: weird ship Peterson has been saying about wanting to save
Speaker 1: people from both political extremes via his weird quasi Christian
Speaker 1: sort of fashion mystical morality. Bullshit, m it's like a questionable.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's frustrating to have to know like everything the
Speaker 1: man's written and said, to really like approach everything he
Speaker 1: does with like, well, okay, you do this, But also
Speaker 1: m hmm, yeah, I think it's fine to just see
Speaker 1: what experts in his field have have said, and also
Speaker 1: to analyze a lot of the things that he said, Um,
Speaker 1: but not all of them, because that's an unreasonable bar
Speaker 1: to hold someone too before critiquing them. So once he
Speaker 1: got famous, obviously he started think about getting into politics
Speaker 1: and maybe he'll try to do that someday. But before
Speaker 1: he got famous and politics seemed like a less real
Speaker 1: listic career choice for him, he was still veering in
Speaker 1: a distinctly unsettling direction and going away from traditional academia,
Speaker 1: which had never really been his bag. From Professor Shift's
Speaker 1: article quote, several years ago, Jordan Peterson told me he
Speaker 1: wanted to buy a church. This was long before he
Speaker 1: became known as the most influential public intellectual in the
Speaker 1: Western world, as he was described in the pages of
Speaker 1: The New York Times a few months ago. It was
Speaker 1: before he was fancied to be a truth telling sage
Speaker 1: who inspired legions and the author of one of the
Speaker 1: best selling books in the world this year. He was
Speaker 1: just my colleague and friend. I assumed that this was
Speaker 1: for a new home. There was a trend in Toronto
Speaker 1: of converting religious spaces vacant because of their dwindling congregations
Speaker 1: into stylish lofts. But he corrected me. He wanted to
Speaker 1: establish a church, he said, in which he would deliver
Speaker 1: sermons every Sunday. Now, Professor Shift knows Peterson better and
Speaker 1: has known him longer than I would say any members
Speaker 1: of the intellectual dark web to be certain, and then
Speaker 1: most people. Um. By late two thousand eighteen, Shift was
Speaker 1: worried enough about his friend that he published this article,
Speaker 1: which was clearly a very painful decision for him to make. Again,
Speaker 1: he lets this guy live in his house for like
Speaker 1: six months. Um, yeah, we get all these promotions, like
Speaker 1: they were like, yeah, you fought for him to get
Speaker 1: money and promote Yeah, Like was a very dedicated friends,
Speaker 1: professional and personally, and you can if you read the article,
Speaker 1: which I recommend. It's clearly a was a painful article
Speaker 1: for him to write um, and he went through a
Speaker 1: lot of long arguments with Jordan, first trying to turn
Speaker 1: him away from what she'd considered an increasingly frightening path.
Speaker 1: You don't understand. I am willing to lose everything, my home,
Speaker 1: my job, et cetera, because I believe in this. And
Speaker 1: then he said, with the intensity he's now famous for.
Speaker 1: Bernie Tammy had a dream, and sometimes her dreams are prophetic.
Speaker 1: She dreamed that it was five minutes to midnight. That
Speaker 1: was our last conversation. He was playing out the ideas
Speaker 1: that appeared in his first book, The Social Order Is
Speaker 1: Coming Apart, where on the edge of chaos, he is
Speaker 1: the prophet and the would be martyr Jordan would be
Speaker 1: our savior. I think he believes that. I am so
Speaker 1: happy we finally got here. I've been hold I've been
Speaker 1: holding on this for so long, and all right, let
Speaker 1: it loose. Man. It's just beautiful. It's my favorite thing
Speaker 1: about him. It's my favorite fact that nobody seems to know.
Speaker 1: This is like something that like when you explain, like
Speaker 1: when you describe this to them, They're like, oh wait,
Speaker 1: why does anybody take this man seriously? Um? He wanted
Speaker 1: to buy a church to give weekly sermons to people,
Speaker 1: and believes that his wife has prophetic dreams about the
Speaker 1: end of the world and that he is the man
Speaker 1: that is going to save the world. He thinks that
Speaker 1: there are allusions to it in maps of meaning where
Speaker 1: he's the guy who's gonna like save the world. But
Speaker 1: he literally said that he thinks that he is that
Speaker 1: because his wife has prophetic dreams. It's why, aw, I'm
Speaker 1: so happy we finally got here. It all makes sense
Speaker 1: once you like once like what that little bit makes sense,
Speaker 1: It's all all. Yeah. He sees himself as I don't know,
Speaker 1: some sort of almost supernatural leader who's maybe like like
Speaker 1: like on a on a on a subconscious like epocaal level,
Speaker 1: welded to a people. I don't know, you might call
Speaker 1: it like a leader principle that like whatever it represents
Speaker 1: like the like the like spirit of a nation, sort
Speaker 1: of like the sort of like yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah yeah, Like he embodies the will of the people
Speaker 1: in his in his in his living soul, and thus
Speaker 1: anything he thinks has to be the correct way for
Speaker 1: things to go because he's speaking through the supernatural like
Speaker 1: like reality of speaking deep universal truths. Yes, oh God, alright,
Speaker 1: like oh I have an itch in them. So I
Speaker 1: I this relief. I just feel relief now, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah yeah. I don't know precisely what path Jordan B.
Speaker 1: Peterson was on as two thousand nineteam dawned what he
Speaker 1: was going to do next in his career. Uh, it's
Speaker 1: possible his ambitions wouldn't have gone much beyond motivational talks
Speaker 1: and self help books. But Professor Shift does not seem
Speaker 1: to think this was the case. That's why he wrote
Speaker 1: this article quote what I am seeing now is a darker,
Speaker 1: angrier Jordan than the man I knew. And Karen Heller's
Speaker 1: recent profile in the Washington Post, he is can it
Speaker 1: about his long history of depression. Depression is an awful illness.
Speaker 1: It is a cognitive disorder that casts a dark shadow
Speaker 1: over everything. His view of life as nasty and brutish
Speaker 1: may very well not be an idea but a description
Speaker 1: of his experience, which became for him the truth. But
Speaker 1: this next statement from Heller's article is heartbreaking. You have
Speaker 1: an evil heart like the person next to you. She
Speaker 1: quotes him as telling a soul out crowd. Kids are
Speaker 1: not innately good, and neither are you. You. Yeah man,
Speaker 1: that is yeah, yeah, Like it is very bleak. And
Speaker 1: it's one of those things that like if you don't
Speaker 1: think too much about it, you might not analyze it
Speaker 1: because like it's one thing to say kids aren't inherently good,
Speaker 1: because nothing is that. No one's inherently good. But people
Speaker 1: aren't inherently evil either. They're inherently self oriented and that
Speaker 1: takes some like personal growth to escape to the degree
Speaker 1: that's necessary to participate in the functional society. Sure, but
Speaker 1: not evil, Like that's real, intense, that's real. Um yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it shows that he's kind of selling something.
Speaker 1: Um yeah, it sure does. Now we may never know
Speaker 1: the next act Jordan B. Peterson had planned because his
Speaker 1: own life seems to have encountered this disruption. Since then, chaos,
Speaker 1: you might say, has chaos in the form of his
Speaker 1: daughter Michaela. So the first sign that something was off
Speaker 1: was probably went on he went on Joe Rogan Show
Speaker 1: to let everyone know that he had embraced his daughter,
Speaker 1: Michaela's all meat diet. Michaela suffered from rhematoid arthritis, and
Speaker 1: it was severe enough that she had to have a
Speaker 1: right hip and ankle replaced at age seventeen. And then
Speaker 1: she started like so, in order to combat that and
Speaker 1: her fatigue and her cistic acne, like, she started taking
Speaker 1: cutting all of her all of everything but meat out
Speaker 1: of her diet. Eventually, like when she after some experimentation,
Speaker 1: wound up figuring out that like all of her problems
Speaker 1: were solved by eating nothing but meat and salt and
Speaker 1: sparkling water. And so she began promoting that as a
Speaker 1: healthcare for everybody and selling one on one consultations, much
Speaker 1: like her dad had done for people who were having
Speaker 1: trouble with her all meat diet. Uh. And then Jordan
Speaker 1: Peterson goes on Joe Rogan and he's like, I've been
Speaker 1: doing this and quote, I lost fifty pounds. My appetite
Speaker 1: has probably fallen by I don't get blood sugar disregulation problems.
Speaker 1: I need way less sleep. He claimed that his depression
Speaker 1: and anxiety were gone, that his mind was sharp, and
Speaker 1: my gum disease is gone. Like, what the hell? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I agree, Jordan, what the hell. He also told everybody
Speaker 1: that one time he had a cider and it made
Speaker 1: him not sleep for like two months, and then when
Speaker 1: people pointed out that it was impossible to do that,
Speaker 1: he was like, well, I guess you know, obviously I
Speaker 1: slept at points, but like it wasn't well and like
Speaker 1: like the insider isn't gonna like Jordan's yeah is it?
Speaker 1: What is it? Like an unavoidable like sense of dread.
Speaker 1: He described it as I think, yeah, you have severe
Speaker 1: anxiety and depression and you blamed it on a single
Speaker 1: drink of cider and like yeah, and also like just
Speaker 1: claiming claiming, like he literally like he claimed that he
Speaker 1: did not sleep. It wasn't like oh I had trouble
Speaker 1: sleeping or this, And I was like, no, I did
Speaker 1: not sleep, um, which is not what happened. No, it's
Speaker 1: not I wasn't there, but that's not what happened. It's
Speaker 1: definitely not what happened. Because you die, because you would
Speaker 1: have done you did, you'd be a deader. You'd be
Speaker 1: a Herman Kane type Kane type, and MICHAELA would be
Speaker 1: tweeting from your account about how you should only me
Speaker 1: it's great, drink cider, drink cider. So yeah. Peterson's health
Speaker 1: problems first surfaced in two nineteen, and this is when
Speaker 1: his family announced that he had gone to rehab an
Speaker 1: upstate New York. MICHAELA claimed that he had been prescribed
Speaker 1: clone as a pam um, which is a benzo, in
Speaker 1: two seventeen, which was due to a severe autoimmune reaction
Speaker 1: to food which might have been like that cider thing
Speaker 1: I don't really know, um. And his dose was increased
Speaker 1: after his wife was diagnosed with very severe kidney cancer
Speaker 1: in April of two nineteen. And obviously that's an incredibly
Speaker 1: stressful thing to do. And if your guy, who was
Speaker 1: already prone to anxiety and depression, your beloved wife getting
Speaker 1: diagnosed with a very serious cancer is going to funk
Speaker 1: you up. It's kind of like ruin you for a while.
Speaker 1: Like obviously, like any person would be in the same thing,
Speaker 1: but UM. And so Jordan went on medication for it
Speaker 1: UM and it became a problem for him, and he
Speaker 1: wound up having withdrawal symptoms. And he will claim that
Speaker 1: he was only ever sort of like chemically addicted to
Speaker 1: it because he didn't really understand what it would do
Speaker 1: to him UM, and he went to rehab. It didn't work, obviously,
Speaker 1: like this, uh this as as kind of In a
Speaker 1: video that she later published, MICHAELA and Jordan noted how
Speaker 1: like bad that being you know, diagnosed as having a
Speaker 1: drug addiction would be for her dad's brand, Um, because
Speaker 1: you know he talks about how you've got to like
Speaker 1: that that's a weakness that you can rid from yourself. Um,
Speaker 1: but yeah, kind of messed up that that happened. But
Speaker 1: also sometimes like like it's okay to appear I get
Speaker 1: quote but weak and like if you struggle, like yeah,
Speaker 1: if you're not a person who I advocates the things
Speaker 1: that Jordan Peterson advocates, then you could be like oh yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, dude, like your fucking wife got cancer, of course,
Speaker 1: like the like some ship, like that's the most normal
Speaker 1: thing in the world that like you developed a problem,
Speaker 1: Like of course, no shame, dude, Like deal with your
Speaker 1: like like we're supportive of you, we care about you.
Speaker 1: Obviously this is a hard time. But that's not Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's not what It's not what he subscribes to. It's
Speaker 1: not what he uh tells people that they need to
Speaker 1: do otherwise they're failing or whatever exactly. Um, I mean
Speaker 1: the same thing with his his rule about don't ever
Speaker 1: let your child do something that uh displeases you or whatever.
Speaker 1: And like Michael's like dating like a like literally a
Speaker 1: pickup artist. She's dating pickups to believe that he is
Speaker 1: inhabited by a demon named Igor. Yep, we'll talk about
Speaker 1: Michaela's relationship and justice spell. Oh thank goodness, Okay, I apologize.
Speaker 1: So a lot of bad things continued to happen to
Speaker 1: Peterson by August or September like two, that's nineteen. He
Speaker 1: wasn't bad enough shape that his family was like more
Speaker 1: worried about him than his wife who was dying of cancer. Um,
Speaker 1: he tried to quit cold turkey a couple of times
Speaker 1: and that had not worked. And if you tried to
Speaker 1: quit a drug addiction and like it doesn't work out,
Speaker 1: it kind of makes it harder to quit in the future. Um,
Speaker 1: detox is harder as a result of that and stuff.
Speaker 1: So he was in a really bad situation. Um, And
Speaker 1: like he also may have had some like very rare
Speaker 1: kind of reactions to clone as a PAM that like
Speaker 1: aren't common. But anyway, he was he was like all
Speaker 1: fucked up and he was also couldn't get off of
Speaker 1: this medicine UM, and MICHAELA developed, who for some reason,
Speaker 1: was in charge of his health care at this point,
Speaker 1: even though she's a not competent to really do much
Speaker 1: of anything person, I would argue based on her advocation
Speaker 1: of eating nothing but meat and salt. UM, she wound
Speaker 1: up in charge, and she decided that they needed a
Speaker 1: a medical treatment or a medical specialists who had the
Speaker 1: guts to detox and cold turkey uh in a place
Speaker 1: where doctors quote aren't influenced by the pharmaceutical companies. So
Speaker 1: she traveled to Russia where they did a very unrecommended
Speaker 1: process where they basically gave him a medical induced coma
Speaker 1: in order to quit him cold turkey UM, which is
Speaker 1: not a good idea. UM. He need to be in
Speaker 1: a breathing machine. He got pneumonia. It was just like
Speaker 1: this horribly traumatic physical process that probably did permanent damage
Speaker 1: to his brain. UM. Because it's bad for you. It's
Speaker 1: bad to do that. Yeah. It seems like like people
Speaker 1: try to avoid being in commas um and doing that
Speaker 1: kind of thing generally. UM. But you know, good luck. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it doesn't seem to have been great. UM. And Yeah,
Speaker 1: obviously MICHAELA has like blamed all of this on Western medicine,
Speaker 1: blames the pneumonia on a North American hospital. Um and
Speaker 1: it's uh, yeah, I thought West was best. That's yet,
Speaker 1: in the words of the New Republic, Michaela is essentially
Speaker 1: weaving her own hero's journey and were father's ordeal when
Speaker 1: in which she brought him to a far funk flunk
Speaker 1: clinic that had the guts to do what Western doctors wouldn't.
Speaker 1: It's a tale that burnishes her brand as a wellness
Speaker 1: influencer and shoves aside awkward questions about whether the treatment
Speaker 1: harmed Peterson. Uh. And shortly after that article came out,
Speaker 1: the news broke that she'd taken them both to Serbia
Speaker 1: to go to clubs during the COVID shutdown with her husband,
Speaker 1: um and had given her dad COVID nineteen and he
Speaker 1: had gotten very sick. Uh And he's probably alive still,
Speaker 1: But the pictures that he's been in recently don't look good.
Speaker 1: He's not well, he's not well, he's not looking great. Um.
Speaker 1: It does seem to still be alive. He does seem
Speaker 1: to still be alive. Maybe he'll recover enough to come
Speaker 1: back and do his thing again. But he hasn't yet.
Speaker 1: He hasn't yet. I've been what, I've been sort of
Speaker 1: curious about it too. I've been like waiting because it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: he's going through a really hard time and like all
Speaker 1: this stuff, uh, and part of me is like, Okay,
Speaker 1: so after about a year, um, he will re emerge, uh,
Speaker 1: and it'll be some it'll be like a spiritual awakening, reinvigoration,
Speaker 1: some sort of thing like I like, I always felt
Speaker 1: like this will be used to sort of push the
Speaker 1: cult stuff and like his his position, um, and people's
Speaker 1: view of him as as this sort of uh savior. Um.
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's still going to happen, because
Speaker 1: it does seem like he just keeps getting sick and
Speaker 1: sick and sick for real reasons. The hard thing is like,
Speaker 1: is he actually going to get better or has he
Speaker 1: like been permanently damaged in such a way that he
Speaker 1: won't be able to continue doing the stuff that he
Speaker 1: was doing. Like I just don't think we really know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's no Yeah, I can't. I can't tell. It's it
Speaker 1: was always like a worry in the back of my mind,
Speaker 1: but now it's like I have no idea how he's
Speaker 1: doing or if yeah, when his daughter is going to
Speaker 1: try to do to him next, yep, yep something her
Speaker 1: pick up artist boyfriend h Yeah. I wanted to read
Speaker 1: a quote from her that she wrote about her and
Speaker 1: her pickup artist husband. Life is complicated. When Andre and
Speaker 1: I met, we argued about Stalin all night. I think
Speaker 1: he's been brainwashed. He disagrees and accuses me of the same.
Speaker 1: He told me he had to immigrate after the wall
Speaker 1: fell and his family had to start again in Canada.
Speaker 1: He told me he'd been shot at as a kid.
Speaker 1: He has black belts. He practiced his sword work. He
Speaker 1: scared me. He told me he had a demon inside
Speaker 1: him named Igor. It didn't seem like a joke. He
Speaker 1: didn't wasn't like anyone I had met, and I didn't
Speaker 1: know what to make of it. I got pregnant with
Speaker 1: Scarlett after eight months of dating the strange Russian man.
Speaker 1: It was terrifying. We decided to have her. I couldn't
Speaker 1: bear any other thought, and we got married despite intense
Speaker 1: pressure from his family. They think I'm a cult leader.
Speaker 1: Smiley faced with a halo. Were separated about a year
Speaker 1: after Scarlett was born. It was awful. It was me really,
Speaker 1: I ran And of course she's back together with him
Speaker 1: now and they gave their dad or her dad. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's great, that's just all. It's just a wild place.
Speaker 1: Um yeah, wild times. For the Peterson's uh you can
Speaker 1: find on YouTube. You can find him in a lecture
Speaker 1: talking about how pickup artists are psychopaths. Yeah, if you
Speaker 1: wanted to do that out. But his brain might not
Speaker 1: be functional anymore because of all of the horrible damage
Speaker 1: his daughter did. Do it because he couldn't bear the
Speaker 1: thought of just like going through the kind of detox
Speaker 1: treatment that that other people do, Like it's Jordan Peterson,
Speaker 1: so he had to go through some like weird Russian
Speaker 1: thing Like you couldn't. You couldn't just like go to
Speaker 1: a thing and be like, yeah, I have a problem,
Speaker 1: like and I can't deal with it on my own.
Speaker 1: I need other people's help, Like no, I need right.
Speaker 1: It's a weird it's like a weird like conflict too,
Speaker 1: because like there's parts like I I don't want I
Speaker 1: don't want to go uh the Western Way, and like
Speaker 1: I don't want to go and say I need help?
Speaker 1: Could you help me? How do I like, uh fight
Speaker 1: this Um, he's going like the self and news Cooma
Speaker 1: in a way is like I'm doing it myself, but
Speaker 1: but like it's not. It's like you're you're not doing
Speaker 1: it yourself. You're not you're not standing up straight, you're
Speaker 1: not keeping you're not doing the poster thing, you're not
Speaker 1: cleaning your own room, You're letting other people do it.
Speaker 1: I don't know. There's a weird conflict there with his
Speaker 1: uh his views. That's not uh unexpected with him. I
Speaker 1: don't know what. I'm surprised. It's just everything does. It's
Speaker 1: very interesting. Yep. And in contrast with his book based
Speaker 1: off of him answering questions on Cora, it's good stuff.
Speaker 1: Well that's our episode, Cody Jordan B. Peterson is I
Speaker 1: don't know, hard to say where he is but not
Speaker 1: in a great place. But he's also not doing the
Speaker 1: stuff he was doing before that I don't like. So whatever,
Speaker 1: it's real Yeah, real mixed bag there. Um. I would say, yeah,
Speaker 1: I wish him well, um, generally, because I wish generally
Speaker 1: everybody well. Yeah, compassion. I wish that his daughter would
Speaker 1: not no longer have any say over his health care
Speaker 1: because she seems bad at it. Yeah, she's very clearly
Speaker 1: like damaging to him. Yeah, and not her feminine chaos
Speaker 1: has shared his order exactly. He gave, he gave, he
Speaker 1: gave her his order, and she she brought chaos to him, chaotic,
Speaker 1: not helpful hands that he's in right now. Um. But
Speaker 1: also and then yeah, it's um, he's not doing the thing.
Speaker 1: I hope. Part of me is like if he stops
Speaker 1: doing if he gets better, maybe maybe he'll stop doing
Speaker 1: this stuff. Yeah, after getting better, I don't know. Um,
Speaker 1: I do think he'll I do think like, yeah, he's
Speaker 1: probably gonna buy that church still yeah yeah, and he'll
Speaker 1: be the be the church guy. Um. I just want
Speaker 1: him to write a novel so we can all see
Speaker 1: the things that he really believes without the offsite he's
Speaker 1: getting language. Yeah, let's let's have him write a novel
Speaker 1: like every public figure should be forced to do. Yes, exactly,
Speaker 1: So you got anything to plug Cody? Um? Uh mapsive
Speaker 1: meaning um, okay, I I do. I would like to
Speaker 1: promote the chaos dragon, which is another word for women,
Speaker 1: my right fellows. Um no, um, you can find me
Speaker 1: on Twitter. Um, Sophi's shaking her head. But I was
Speaker 1: doing a Peterson bit. I should have done the voice.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. Um. You can find me on Twitter, on
Speaker 1: Dr Mr Courdy and on the other socials. I got
Speaker 1: a show called some More News on YouTube and the
Speaker 1: podcast called even More News. I also co host with
Speaker 1: Robert and my other cost Katie Stole Worst You're Ever
Speaker 1: on my radio. And I also would like to promote
Speaker 1: the first episode of this Listen to the first episode
Speaker 1: before you listen to this one over. Now that's kind
Speaker 1: of an extremist point, but okay, Cody, you go off. UM,
Speaker 1: I think you should listen to whatever in whatever order.
Speaker 1: In fact, just randomly quea random audio from the entire
Speaker 1: human history of recording things and never know what you're
Speaker 1: going to listen to. That's the best way chaotic womanly energy.
Speaker 1: There such a visionary robber and I just don't know.
Speaker 1: Thank you. I hope you start some sort of like
Speaker 1: organization where people can follow your every word on question. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, it'll be great and we'll um, you know,
Speaker 1: we'll get raytheon on the phone and I do you
Speaker 1: have them on speed dial at this point because they call? Yeah. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: That means they're affordable. Now ridiculous, really makes it really
Speaker 1: really gonna really gonna make as is the episode over,
Speaker 1: I'm very tired. Great job, guys, You guys are amazing