WEBVTT - Part Two: The Jordan Peterson Episode 0:00:03.360 --> 0:00:07.480 Welcome back to Behind the Bastards, the show where Cody 0:00:07.520 --> 0:00:10.799 and I just finished laughing about Herman Kane. Not because 0:00:11.280 --> 0:00:14.000 there's anything funny about a death from COVID nineteen, but 0:00:14.080 --> 0:00:16.680 because the Kane Gang. The Kane Gang, which are the 0:00:16.680 --> 0:00:19.400 people who have taken over this dead Man's Twitter account 0:00:19.600 --> 0:00:23.479 tweeted out an article from Herman Kane dot com that said, 0:00:23.600 --> 0:00:28.600 resume life is normal over scientists and health of professional Yeah. Yeah, anyway, 0:00:28.760 --> 0:00:33.320 it's very gang going strong because the guy they're named 0:00:33.360 --> 0:00:36.960 after cannot resume life is normal because COVID killed him. 0:00:37.080 --> 0:00:41.440 I don't know. The article says, fine, so conflicting reports, 0:00:41.560 --> 0:00:44.120 one from a ghost and one from the ghosts friends. 0:00:44.200 --> 0:00:47.920 So well, this is probably a bad way to open 0:00:47.960 --> 0:00:52.960 a podcast about and beat us another victim of COVID nineteen. 0:00:54.640 --> 0:00:58.680 But we'll talk about that. Yeah, he got it. Did 0:00:58.720 --> 0:01:01.320 you not know that? Did I miss? Oh? Cody, We're 0:01:01.320 --> 0:01:03.960 gonna have fun in this episode. This is part two 0:01:04.000 --> 0:01:08.120 of our Jordan B. Peterson episode. Um, Cody Johnston is 0:01:08.160 --> 0:01:12.880 my guest. Some more news. They're also a podcast of 0:01:12.920 --> 0:01:20.160 a similar name. Um, my former co worker had cracked. Uh, 0:01:20.280 --> 0:01:26.640 the man who invented the drive system to the podcast 0:01:26.720 --> 0:01:28.280 you do together. You're just not going to do that. 0:01:34.319 --> 0:01:37.679 So Dr Jordan Peterson picked a good time to reveal 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:41.040 himself as the philosophy daddy of the new Right. Two 0:01:41.040 --> 0:01:44.280 thousand seventeen was a great year for his brand. Trump 0:01:44.360 --> 0:01:48.040 was president. New conversations about Western chauvinism. We're cracking into 0:01:48.040 --> 0:01:49.920 the mainstream thanks to the alt Right and groups like 0:01:49.920 --> 0:01:52.559 the Proud Boys, and Jordan Peterson was among the most 0:01:52.600 --> 0:01:55.680 popular and highly paid speakers in the country. It is 0:01:56.560 --> 0:02:01.960 he's super fucking rich, like his gold gear. He was 0:02:02.000 --> 0:02:05.600 doing so good, Skyrocketingen was a bit better, and then 0:02:05.640 --> 0:02:08.800 things got a lot worse. Uh So he was polite 0:02:09.160 --> 0:02:11.160 in urban enough that he could avoid being lumped in 0:02:11.200 --> 0:02:13.760 with every liberals new boogeyman at the time the alt right, 0:02:14.000 --> 0:02:17.680 while still radicalizing and funneling new members into the alt right. Uh. 0:02:17.720 --> 0:02:20.720 Some perceptive writers critiqued him for this, my personal favorite 0:02:20.720 --> 0:02:23.680 being the McLean's writer who declared him the stupid person 0:02:23.800 --> 0:02:28.280 smart person. Um, yeah, now that a lot of I 0:02:28.320 --> 0:02:30.200 mean a lot that that describes a lot of people 0:02:30.280 --> 0:02:34.480 in the That does describe a lot of people. Vlogo sphere. 0:02:34.639 --> 0:02:36.920 I want to quote from that article To be clear, 0:02:37.000 --> 0:02:39.360 Jordan Peterson is not a neo Nazi, but there's a 0:02:39.400 --> 0:02:41.359 reason he's as popular he as he is on the 0:02:41.400 --> 0:02:43.400 alt right. You'll never hear him use the phrase we 0:02:43.480 --> 0:02:45.840 must secure a future for our white children. What you 0:02:45.880 --> 0:02:47.880 will hear is him say that, well, there does appear 0:02:47.919 --> 0:02:50.840 to be a causal relationship between empowering women and economic growth. 0:02:50.960 --> 0:02:53.160 We have to consider whether this is good for society 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:55.400 because the birth rate is plumbing. That's a quote from 0:02:55.440 --> 0:02:59.920 Jordan Peterson. Yep. He doesn't call for a white ethno state, 0:03:00.000 --> 0:03:02.880 but he does retweet daily color articles with opening lines 0:03:02.919 --> 0:03:05.520 like yet again an American city is being torn apart 0:03:05.520 --> 0:03:08.200 by black rioters. He has dedicated two and a half 0:03:08.280 --> 0:03:11.520 hour long YouTube videos to identity politics and the Marxist 0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:14.720 fly of white privilege. I can't say marxistly and not 0:03:14.800 --> 0:03:18.840 to avenge, I'm sorry. Yeah, it's just where I go, 0:03:18.960 --> 0:03:21.959 and they require requires a voice every time. Whenever I 0:03:22.000 --> 0:03:25.160 say antifa, I do that now too. It's antiva. Yeah, 0:03:25.400 --> 0:03:29.360 It's it's just how it is, how it does these days. Yeah. 0:03:29.440 --> 0:03:33.680 So Jordan himself was careful to define himself as a 0:03:33.760 --> 0:03:37.200 classic British liberal. This is not an uncommon line for 0:03:37.200 --> 0:03:39.320 people to take when they hate things like trans rights, 0:03:39.320 --> 0:03:41.960 but when a couch their bigotry in an appreciation for debate. 0:03:42.480 --> 0:03:45.120 You'll never hear hate speech out of Jordan Peterson's mouth, 0:03:45.320 --> 0:03:47.240 but he will be happy to explain to you when 0:03:47.240 --> 0:03:50.920 his audience of millions that marginalized groups are infantilized by 0:03:51.000 --> 0:03:53.440 identity politics and their offense, that the racism of his 0:03:53.560 --> 0:03:57.200 white consumers is part of a culture of victimhood. Again, 0:03:57.600 --> 0:04:00.840 no racial slurs, but he will explained to you why 0:04:00.880 --> 0:04:05.000 it's wrong for people to be offended by racial slurs. Oh, yeah, 0:04:05.000 --> 0:04:08.040 it's it's why. He'll explain, like here's why it's wrong 0:04:08.120 --> 0:04:11.400 to be offended by this, or here's why, Um, it's 0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:15.280 natural to like fear people like feel fear the other 0:04:15.400 --> 0:04:18.360 and things he's tweeted. He once tweeted an article about 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:23.800 the dangers of diversity and how diversity is bad. Um, 0:04:24.400 --> 0:04:28.479 and that article was by Steve Sailor from v Dare, 0:04:29.560 --> 0:04:33.640 who yeah, literally a guy who invented something called the 0:04:34.360 --> 0:04:37.160 Sailor strategy, which was what Trump strategy was basically like, 0:04:37.279 --> 0:04:43.480 go to the uh disaffected like white aggrieved white Americans, 0:04:44.120 --> 0:04:47.640 uh and play that game um and in the article uh, 0:04:47.680 --> 0:04:49.839 he cited a study about how like, yeah, if you 0:04:50.360 --> 0:04:54.400 have diversity, um, it causes like some you know, tension 0:04:54.600 --> 0:04:59.040 and between the different groups. Um. And he cites that 0:04:59.160 --> 0:05:01.039 in the article. He hasn't mentioned the part of the 0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:03.320 study that points out that but in the long run 0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:07.719 it improves economy and social stat it like, over time, 0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:13.640 diversity improves society. It's just at the beginning it you know, 0:05:13.680 --> 0:05:17.600 people are tribal and it causes some strikes. It is 0:05:17.640 --> 0:05:22.600 always interesting whenever Peterson will share something like that that 0:05:22.800 --> 0:05:25.680 goes out of its way to not include part of 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:28.560 a study that is antithetical to what they're trying to 0:05:28.760 --> 0:05:34.520 um to prove he's a good guy, studious, studious man, 0:05:34.720 --> 0:05:44.360 good tweets, good twart m hmm. Okay. So Peterson's repeated 0:05:44.400 --> 0:05:46.839 jabs at identity politics are extremely funny in light of 0:05:46.839 --> 0:05:49.520 the ways that he's attempted to co opt indigenous identity 0:05:49.560 --> 0:05:51.960 for his own crude benefit. Did you know about this, Cody? 0:05:52.160 --> 0:05:54.360 Do you know about Jordan Peterson's claims that he's been 0:05:54.360 --> 0:05:59.159 inducted into an Indigenous I remember this, Yeah, give it 0:05:59.200 --> 0:06:01.880 to me. In two thousand eighteen, old tweets of Peterson's 0:06:01.880 --> 0:06:03.799 surface where and he told some sort of joke about 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:08.160 an Indian bartender's quote from him Senator Murray Sinclair, who's 0:06:08.240 --> 0:06:10.479 a Canadian senator, so like not a real senator, but 0:06:10.520 --> 0:06:13.080 you know what I'm saying, Um, that was a Canadian joke, 0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:16.479 not an Indigenous person's joke. I'm making fun of Canadians. Um. 0:06:16.680 --> 0:06:20.120 Senator Murray Sinclair, who's who's one of Canada's relatively few 0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:24.240 Indigenous or First Nations senators got angry because Peterson was 0:06:24.279 --> 0:06:28.120 furthering stereotypes about drunken Native Americans. That's like goes back 0:06:28.160 --> 0:06:31.040 a long way. Um. And he also got kind of 0:06:31.080 --> 0:06:33.679 angry because it's pretty shitty to call Indigenous people indians. 0:06:33.960 --> 0:06:37.840 Um do that. There's I think different terms that kind 0:06:37.839 --> 0:06:40.840 of people, certain people prefer, but no one seems to 0:06:40.880 --> 0:06:44.080 like Indian. Um, let's not let's not use that one. Um. 0:06:44.240 --> 0:06:46.480 One of Jordan's friends defended him by pointing at the 0:06:46.480 --> 0:06:48.280 guy he had sent the tweet too, defended him by 0:06:48.279 --> 0:06:50.240 pointing out that the joke that they were telling about 0:06:50.240 --> 0:06:52.960 this Indian bartender was about a real incident with a 0:06:53.040 --> 0:06:58.080 quote self identified Indian bartender who had duped Peterson's friend 0:06:58.120 --> 0:07:00.279 out of a bottle of bourbon the night before Peterson 0:07:00.360 --> 0:07:03.960 was set to become an honorary member of the Quaquaca 0:07:04.000 --> 0:07:06.640 Wock tribe. Um. Now, all of this, I'm trying to 0:07:06.640 --> 0:07:08.159 get it right. I looked it up in everything. I 0:07:08.160 --> 0:07:10.920 don't normally do that, but yeah, um, all of this, 0:07:11.080 --> 0:07:13.920 Hurwitz seemed to suggest was evidence that Peterson was not 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:17.840 biased against Native Americans, which is a statement that Peterson like, 0:07:17.840 --> 0:07:21.280 liked and seconded on Twitter. Um. So, Peterson has repeatedly 0:07:21.320 --> 0:07:23.200 brought up the fact that he was inducted into the 0:07:23.280 --> 0:07:26.880 Quaquaca Wock tribe in order to defend himself from allegations 0:07:26.880 --> 0:07:29.600 of racism. Into this and seventeen when a commentary on 0:07:29.600 --> 0:07:32.480 Facebook suggested that he was a klansman. So this guy 0:07:32.480 --> 0:07:34.600 on Facebook is like, you're basically you're in the KKK, 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:38.560 Peterson responded, if by KKK you mean Quaquaco lock of 0:07:38.560 --> 0:07:42.520 whose nation I am a members? How it works? Short? 0:07:43.480 --> 0:07:47.200 Very very good. Now. A reporter from a Canadian online magazine, 0:07:47.240 --> 0:07:49.480 The Walrus, dug into this, and he found that Peterson 0:07:49.520 --> 0:07:51.679 also claimed on the jacket of his book Twelve Routs 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:53.800 for Life that he had been inducted into the coastal 0:07:53.840 --> 0:07:57.280 Pacific Quaquaca Walk Tribe. The reality of the situation as 0:07:57.320 --> 0:07:59.560 the water was found was very different. Um there is 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:02.120 a quack walk a Walk artist named Charles Joseph Um 0:08:02.120 --> 0:08:04.400 and numerous interviewers will note that Peterson's house is full 0:08:04.400 --> 0:08:07.520 of Joseph's work, and we don't know what Peterson did 0:08:07.640 --> 0:08:10.720 for Charles Joseph, but it was something really incredible and 0:08:11.000 --> 0:08:14.120 like that he that that Charles Joseph like was deeply 0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:17.960 impacted by. It was something meaningful enough that Charles Joseph 0:08:18.200 --> 0:08:21.720 performed a special ritual to induct Jordan Peterson into his 0:08:21.840 --> 0:08:24.600 family and as a result, he considers Jordan Peterson to 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:26.960 be a brother. There's obviously a huge honor and it 0:08:27.160 --> 0:08:29.640 seems it's very clear that Jordan did something incredible to 0:08:29.640 --> 0:08:32.600 help Charles. But as the walr was dubbed, they found 0:08:32.640 --> 0:08:35.400 out that both Charles Joseph and the Quakwaka Walk tribe 0:08:35.679 --> 0:08:38.240 disagree with Peterson's claims that he's been inducted into the 0:08:38.240 --> 0:08:41.280 tribe because he was not Um. He was inducted into 0:08:41.400 --> 0:08:44.760 Charles Joseph's family, but not into the tribe itself. It's 0:08:44.800 --> 0:08:47.120 a very different thing, and it's a very important distinction. 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:52.520 Yeah yeah, yeah, um, And it's Peterson kind of claiming 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:54.280 that he's a part of this tribe in order to 0:08:54.400 --> 0:08:57.720 deflect allegations of racism is a kind of dishonesty I 0:08:57.880 --> 0:09:02.319 find particularly off putting because the real story is perfectly honorable, 0:09:02.640 --> 0:09:05.160 like you helped this man out to such a degree 0:09:05.200 --> 0:09:07.480 that he inducted you into his family, and especially like 0:09:07.520 --> 0:09:11.960 that's a that's something absolutely yeah, yeah, but he's not 0:09:12.040 --> 0:09:15.320 what he's saying, and especially like in terms of like 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:21.479 what he's using the fake story to try to prove. Yeah, 0:09:21.480 --> 0:09:23.400 it's the kind of thing were he to respond to 0:09:23.440 --> 0:09:26.680 someone calling him racist with, well, actually, this one indigenous 0:09:26.679 --> 0:09:28.880 person I know, like I did something so good for 0:09:28.960 --> 0:09:30.760 him that he indefted me into his family. That would 0:09:30.760 --> 0:09:32.640 sound kind of like gross and weird and like you 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:35.439 were kind of like and it wouldn't be nearly a 0:09:35.480 --> 0:09:37.960 snappy saying I'm a member of the Quakako tribe, So like, 0:09:37.960 --> 0:09:40.200 how could I be racist? Like one of them makes 0:09:40.240 --> 0:09:43.360 a better debate point, and also the more honest version 0:09:43.400 --> 0:09:45.680 makes it clear like hey, dude, you it seems like 0:09:45.720 --> 0:09:49.560 you might be kind of like um cashing in on this, right, Yeah, 0:09:49.559 --> 0:09:52.920 you're using kind of weird thing to like prove this 0:09:53.000 --> 0:09:56.280 other thing. Yeah, it doesn't, it doesn't prove it anyway. 0:09:56.320 --> 0:10:00.320 But also it's weird that you're using this to prove it. Yeah. Now, 0:10:00.559 --> 0:10:03.319 the reality is that Jordan Peterson is someone who regularly 0:10:03.320 --> 0:10:06.280 traffics in a kind of intellectual quasi bigotry masquerading as 0:10:06.320 --> 0:10:09.640 intellectual curiosity. Some of his best lines include the idea 0:10:09.679 --> 0:10:12.720 that women are were oppressed throughout history is an appalling theory, 0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:16.240 and Islamophobia is a word created by fascists and used 0:10:16.280 --> 0:10:20.679 by cowards to manipulate morons. White privileges a Marxist lie, 0:10:20.720 --> 0:10:23.360 and believing that gender identity is subjective is as bad 0:10:23.400 --> 0:10:27.079 as claiming that the world is flat? Oh is it? 0:10:27.080 --> 0:10:30.280 It's as bad as that. That's good. That's good. That's 0:10:30.360 --> 0:10:34.600 a lot of a lot of stuff, um from good 0:10:34.600 --> 0:10:38.800 old Jordan's The i Q stuff is wild. Yeah, very 0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:46.320 very rarely he um yeah not not not. I'm not 0:10:46.360 --> 0:10:52.400 convinced by Jordan Peterson. Jordan B. Peterson, fake, fake, inducted 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:57.160 into a real tribe. It's weird, not not as compelling 0:10:57.200 --> 0:11:01.199 as he thinks it is. No now Like Joseph Campbell, 0:11:01.240 --> 0:11:04.160 who we talked about in our first episode. Jordan Peterson's 0:11:04.240 --> 0:11:07.160 primary focus seems to have been Marxism, and it seems 0:11:07.160 --> 0:11:10.240 like this probably started because he considered his fellow professors 0:11:10.280 --> 0:11:13.440 to have been Marxist um and that that kind of 0:11:14.040 --> 0:11:17.680 he generalized his frustration with these specific people who disagreed 0:11:17.720 --> 0:11:19.280 with him because he hates it we need disagree with 0:11:19.360 --> 0:11:23.960 him into a broader fear that Marxists worldwide we're in 0:11:24.000 --> 0:11:28.400 the process of conquering every aspect of Western civilization. Peterson 0:11:28.480 --> 0:11:31.880 tended to use the term postmodern neo Marxism or cultural 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:34.800 Marxism to essentially refer to the same idea. With the 0:11:34.800 --> 0:11:37.680 fall of the USSR, Marxist lost the war with capitalism, 0:11:37.760 --> 0:11:39.720 so they decided they had to sneak into the education 0:11:39.800 --> 0:11:45.239 system and like brainwashed children's heads with, in Peterson's words, vicious, untenable, 0:11:45.240 --> 0:11:48.520 and anti human ideas. That's how I would describe some 0:11:48.600 --> 0:11:53.200 of his ideas. One anti human idea in Jordan's Reckoning 0:11:53.360 --> 0:11:55.559 is that a college professor might get in trouble if 0:11:55.559 --> 0:11:58.079 he specifically refused to refer to a transperson by their 0:11:58.120 --> 0:12:03.040 chosen pronouns. Out of spite. That's to human anti human? Yeah, 0:12:03.080 --> 0:12:07.199 oh my god, Jordan's yeah, it's like the live literally 0:12:07.240 --> 0:12:10.679 the opposite. Like we all have things that frustrate us 0:12:10.720 --> 0:12:13.360 in society. These can be reasonable or not. I am 0:12:13.520 --> 0:12:16.840 angry that every time I want to just drink one 0:12:16.960 --> 0:12:19.320 or two beers or a fifth of vodka while driving 0:12:19.320 --> 0:12:22.719 my four Runner through a trailer park and firing out 0:12:22.720 --> 0:12:24.920 of the window with an AK forty seven, people get 0:12:24.920 --> 0:12:27.360 really angry and the police show up, Like, I find 0:12:27.400 --> 0:12:30.800 that anti human, But I understand that, like I, you know, 0:12:30.880 --> 0:12:33.280 part of living in society is that you you take 0:12:33.360 --> 0:12:37.200 certain actions or don't take certain actions, because everyone agrees 0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:40.000 things work better when you're not shooting up trailer parks 0:12:40.040 --> 0:12:42.000 drunkenly in your for Runner all the time. Yes, they do. 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:47.160 That's a society that's humans. It's that's human. That's the 0:12:47.160 --> 0:12:49.839 way society will be until I want win my my 0:12:50.000 --> 0:12:55.760 congressional campaign. Yeah, and introduce the drunk driving in trailer 0:12:55.800 --> 0:12:59.640 parks while firing out the window bill, which openly openly 0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:04.760 a vote for me. Yeah. Yeah. So, in a battle 0:13:04.840 --> 0:13:07.360 with stakes as high as the survival of Western civilization, 0:13:07.520 --> 0:13:10.960 Dr Peterson is willing to justify fighting dirty. He calls 0:13:11.000 --> 0:13:15.200 ideas he disagrees within debates silly, ridiculous, absurd, insane. Debates 0:13:15.200 --> 0:13:17.880 are described as combat, and his followers seemed to respond 0:13:17.920 --> 0:13:20.200 well to this. In a few seconds of searching, it 0:13:20.240 --> 0:13:22.679 took no time at all. I found videos titled Jordan 0:13:22.760 --> 0:13:27.280 Peterson destroys Islam in fifteen seconds more than two million views, 0:13:27.440 --> 0:13:31.640 Jordan Peterson Destroying Feminists, a compilation video with three forty 0:13:31.720 --> 0:13:34.920 nine thousand views, and watch angry Jordan Peterson get up 0:13:34.960 --> 0:13:38.360 and destroy student who tried to smear him seven forty 0:13:38.400 --> 0:13:42.400 one thousand views. Now the fundamentally combative nature of the debates, 0:13:42.440 --> 0:13:45.120 Peterson prefers to engage him. Let him to tell Camille 0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:47.720 Paglia in a two thousand seventeen interview, if you're talking 0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:49.760 to a man who wouldn't fight with you under any 0:13:49.760 --> 0:13:53.160 circumstances whatsoever, then you're talking to someone for whom you 0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:56.120 have absolutely no respect. He went on to explain that 0:13:56.120 --> 0:13:58.800 he has more trouble dealing with crazy women because he 0:13:58.880 --> 0:14:04.480 cannot hit them. How can you argue with someone if 0:14:04.480 --> 0:14:07.839 you can't, exactly if you don't, If you don't, it's 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:09.840 also like this is wild because he's also the kind 0:14:09.840 --> 0:14:12.400 of guy would be like, well, don't punch a Nazi, right, Yeah, 0:14:12.480 --> 0:14:15.199 Well yeah, Antifa's bad because they punched Nazis. Also, I 0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:21.960 don't respect anyone who won't fight exactly um uh, consistently, inconsistent, 0:14:22.000 --> 0:14:24.440 it's a beautiful thing. And all of that might make 0:14:24.480 --> 0:14:27.280 you think that Dr Jordan Balthazar Peterson might be less 0:14:27.320 --> 0:14:29.720 of a free speech buff than he appears to be. 0:14:29.920 --> 0:14:33.520 The Guardian even notes quote Peterson's commitment to unfettered free 0:14:33.520 --> 0:14:36.160 speech is questionable. Once you believe in a powerful and 0:14:36.200 --> 0:14:39.840 maligned conspiracy, you start to justify extreme measures. Last July, 0:14:39.920 --> 0:14:41.960 he announced plans to launch a website that would help 0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:45.479 students and parents identify and avoid corrupt courses with postmodern 0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:49.200 content within five years. He hoped this would starve postmodern 0:14:49.240 --> 0:14:52.280 neo Marxist cult classes and do oblivion. Peterson shelved the 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:55.800 plan after a backlash, acknowledging that it might add excessively 0:14:55.880 --> 0:14:59.480 to current polarization. Who could have predicted that blacklisting fellow 0:14:59.480 --> 0:15:04.840 professors might exacerbate polarization? Apparently not the most influential public, 0:15:04.840 --> 0:15:09.040 if intellectual in the Western world. Yeah, yeah, he likes 0:15:09.080 --> 0:15:14.880 suing people too. He he loves suing people maybe, Like 0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:17.880 it's just like, imagine what he would say if anyone 0:15:17.960 --> 0:15:20.680 else did the same thing about him or the things 0:15:20.680 --> 0:15:24.080 that he says. Just imagine what his response would be 0:15:24.160 --> 0:15:26.680 to that, And like the idea that he needed a 0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:30.760 backlash to be like, oh maybe this would maybe this 0:15:30.760 --> 0:15:38.680 would cause some problems. Yep, maybe maybe maybe maybe so. 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:41.280 Jridan made buckets of money into Doant seventeen, but his 0:15:41.360 --> 0:15:44.200 depression and his persistent feelings of imminent doom continued to 0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:47.080 follow him. He told the Ottawa Citizen quote, in a 0:15:47.120 --> 0:15:49.640 sensible world, I would have got my fifteen minutes of fame. 0:15:49.840 --> 0:15:51.840 I feel like I'm surfing a giant wave and it 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:53.600 could come crashing down and wipe me out. Or I 0:15:53.600 --> 0:15:55.840 could write it and continue. All of those options are 0:15:55.880 --> 0:16:02.200 equally plausible. Keep that in mind too now. Meanwhile, people 0:16:02.200 --> 0:16:05.040 who had befriended, supported, and aided Jordan throughout his career 0:16:05.080 --> 0:16:07.880 increased increasingly felt frightened and betrayed by the path he 0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:11.040 was taking. His old mentor, Professor Schiff, wrote that things 0:16:11.200 --> 0:16:14.480 between them grew heated after Peterson's famous opposition to see 0:16:14.480 --> 0:16:18.120 sixteen quote. This is from Professor Schiff. I have a 0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:20.280 trans daughter, but that was hardly an issue compared to 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:21.960 what I felt was a betrayal of my trust and 0:16:22.040 --> 0:16:24.160 confidence in him. It was an abuse of the trust 0:16:24.200 --> 0:16:26.800 that comes with his professorial position, which I had fought for. 0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:30.040 To have misrepresented gender science by dismissing the evidence that 0:16:30.120 --> 0:16:33.600 the relationship of gender to biology is not absolute, and 0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:35.560 to have made the claim that he could be jailed 0:16:35.560 --> 0:16:38.280 when it worst he could be fined. In his defense, 0:16:38.480 --> 0:16:40.560 Jordan told me that if he refused to pay the fine, 0:16:40.600 --> 0:16:42.640 he could go to jail. That is not the same 0:16:42.680 --> 0:16:44.440 as being jailed for what you say. But it did 0:16:44.520 --> 0:16:46.440 ennoble him as a would be martyr in the defense 0:16:46.480 --> 0:16:51.400 of free speech. Yeah, um, it did, and he knows that. Um. 0:16:51.440 --> 0:16:56.640 A lot of his behavior Ine is uh. It becomes 0:16:56.760 --> 0:16:59.640 very clear, like I'm talking about earlier in the pres episode, 0:16:59.680 --> 0:17:03.120 about his sort of whether it was intentional or not. 0:17:03.960 --> 0:17:09.440 Research into what what influences people and how to get 0:17:09.480 --> 0:17:12.719 people on board with something with an idea, with an 0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:17.240 ideology with belief the capital B belief, what, why, how 0:17:17.280 --> 0:17:21.040 and why do people believe? Um? And what brings people 0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:25.520 to to believe in like authoritarianism. Um and it Yeah, 0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:27.760 he he knows, he knows what he's doing. He knows, 0:17:27.800 --> 0:17:31.560 he knows exactly what he's doing. He knows he knows 0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:35.160 exactly what he's doing. Um. Yeah, it's a he knows. 0:17:35.200 --> 0:17:37.399 He knows a lot of things that he pretends to 0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:40.879 not know. It's wild even just like watching clips of 0:17:41.000 --> 0:17:44.760 him talk about different things, Uh in similar ways. There's 0:17:44.800 --> 0:17:47.679 a you can find a few, uh, a few clips 0:17:47.680 --> 0:17:51.399 of him talking on various podcasts about Hitler specifically and 0:17:51.440 --> 0:17:54.600 the rise of Hitler. Sometimes he rationalizes it. It's like, well, 0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:57.280 if you have this chaos, you you look for somebody 0:17:57.640 --> 0:18:00.800 to bring order and make sense of that. Uh. It 0:18:00.800 --> 0:18:03.119 could be it could be viewed as like Hitler apologia. 0:18:03.280 --> 0:18:06.920 But um, given the benefit of the doubt and just say, uh, 0:18:06.960 --> 0:18:12.000 he is explaining what people, uh, we're feeling. During the 0:18:12.080 --> 0:18:13.960 rise of Nazi Germany. He has a whole video on 0:18:14.080 --> 0:18:16.400 like you would have been a Nazi and like people 0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:18.160 if you were there, you probably would have been a Nazi. 0:18:18.280 --> 0:18:21.919 That's how the culture and society works. Um. And I 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:24.560 don't think Jordan Peterson is a Nazi. He definitely would 0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:30.000 have been one. Also, Yeah, most people weren't Nazis until 0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:33.040 the Nazi Like, even when the Nazis were in power, 0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:38.359 Nazi Party membership was was not everybody Yeah, like yeah, 0:18:38.640 --> 0:18:42.480 Jordan's is Um, I don't know. I do the same thing. 0:18:42.680 --> 0:18:45.040 The episode that's running the week that we're recording this 0:18:45.440 --> 0:18:48.720 is largely about how normal people became Nazis and how 0:18:48.920 --> 0:18:51.040 they The scariest thing about it is that a lot 0:18:51.080 --> 0:18:53.639 of people who were not monsters supported the Nazi Party 0:18:53.680 --> 0:18:57.240 because of a lot of really uncomfortable realities of the 0:18:57.320 --> 0:19:00.080 human condition. I think there's a responsible way, in an 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:02.600 irresponsible way to talk about that. The responsible way is 0:19:02.640 --> 0:19:04.800 to try to inform people of the dangers in their 0:19:04.800 --> 0:19:07.240 own thinking and the dangers in just sort of like 0:19:07.320 --> 0:19:10.120 people's desire for safety and stability that can lead them 0:19:10.160 --> 0:19:13.920 to support at least tacit least terrible things, and being like, well, 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:15.800 you would have supported the Nazis, so like, why are 0:19:15.800 --> 0:19:22.400 you judgmental about Nazis? Yeah? Um yeah. And he even 0:19:22.480 --> 0:19:25.720 has um. In contrast, you can hear him talk about 0:19:25.720 --> 0:19:29.800 Trump a little bit in UM and in describing the 0:19:29.840 --> 0:19:34.240 appeal of Donald Trump, it is uh indistinguishable from him 0:19:34.280 --> 0:19:39.480 talking about Hitler um Internet of the the chaos and 0:19:39.480 --> 0:19:41.320 the order and the things that people want and the 0:19:41.520 --> 0:19:45.040 their fears, and how Trump is capitalizing on that. But 0:19:45.080 --> 0:19:47.000 he doesn't make you ever make that connection. He's never 0:19:47.359 --> 0:19:52.880 he uh presents it as positive um and not something 0:19:52.920 --> 0:19:56.320 to be concerned about. He's never really criticized Donald Trump 0:19:56.880 --> 0:19:59.680 for any of those reasons, while at the same time 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:03.120 ever talking about Hitler being uh the exact same way. 0:20:03.160 --> 0:20:05.520 You can enter it. You can replace the names and 0:20:05.560 --> 0:20:09.760 it would still be um. It would sound the same. Now, Cody, 0:20:10.080 --> 0:20:14.480 you know who won't apologize for the rise of fascism? 0:20:14.480 --> 0:20:18.920 Do they make beautiful, beautiful weapons? Oh well, Raytheon No, 0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:22.200 of course not. Raytheon would never apologize for anything. That's 0:20:22.200 --> 0:20:28.080 why you buy Raytheon products. Raytheon never apologize, never apologize. 0:20:29.560 --> 0:20:44.440 Here's some other ats M. We're back. Ah. So now 0:20:44.840 --> 0:20:48.280 we were talking about Schiff, Professor Schiff Jordan Peterson's old 0:20:48.359 --> 0:20:51.159 mentor um and kind of like that writer with The 0:20:51.200 --> 0:20:54.320 Guardian we quitted earlier, Shift is particularly concerned with Peterson's 0:20:54.320 --> 0:20:57.359 conditional support of free speech. He knows Peterson well and 0:20:57.359 --> 0:21:00.520 he began to see some pretty fashy tendencies from his friend, 0:21:00.760 --> 0:21:04.280 Chief Among them were Peterson's relentless focus on transgender and 0:21:04.359 --> 0:21:07.679 gender nonconforming people. And here's something that's basically what you 0:21:07.720 --> 0:21:12.520 said earlier. Cody Jordan has studied and understands authoritarian demagogic leaders. 0:21:12.680 --> 0:21:15.160 They know how to attract the following. In an interview 0:21:15.160 --> 0:21:17.840 with Ethan Klein in an H three podcast, Jordan describes 0:21:17.880 --> 0:21:20.160 as such, leaders learned to repeat those things which make 0:21:20.200 --> 0:21:23.159 the crowd roar, and not repeat those things that do not. 0:21:23.680 --> 0:21:26.159 The crowd roared the first time Jordan opposed the so 0:21:26.240 --> 0:21:29.320 called transgender agenda, perhaps they would roar again, whether it 0:21:29.359 --> 0:21:33.040 made sense or not. But why transgender in the first place. 0:21:33.119 --> 0:21:35.880 In that same interview, Jordan's cites Carl Young, who talked 0:21:35.880 --> 0:21:39.640 about the effectiveness of powerful emotional oratorical skills to tap 0:21:39.680 --> 0:21:42.760 into the collective unconscious of a people and into their anger, resentment, 0:21:42.840 --> 0:21:45.200 fear of chaos, and need for order. He talked about 0:21:45.200 --> 0:21:48.520 how those demagogic leaders led by acting out the dark 0:21:48.600 --> 0:22:01.520 desires of the momb yep, yeah, yeah, got them. Yeah, 0:22:01.560 --> 0:22:04.280 I mean that's yeah, that's it's it's when you just 0:22:04.720 --> 0:22:08.320 a little delving in, you really see what he's doing. Um, yeah, 0:22:08.560 --> 0:22:14.199 not hard, not not super complicated. Two eighteen, a massive 0:22:14.200 --> 0:22:17.520 douche canoe named Eric Weinstein first used the term intellectual 0:22:17.680 --> 0:22:21.520 dark Web on Sam Harris's Waking Up podcast. Now the 0:22:21.600 --> 0:22:26.280 official Intellectual Dark Web website lists him as a vanguard 0:22:26.480 --> 0:22:30.720 of the I d W, alongside Dr Jordan Peterson. Interestingly, 0:22:30.800 --> 0:22:33.879 it calls Erica left wing person, which is fun because 0:22:33.880 --> 0:22:37.320 he's the managing director of Teel Capital. Why is he 0:22:37.400 --> 0:22:40.040 never he never address that, no one ever brings it up, 0:22:40.080 --> 0:22:43.400 it's wild. Then he can still make that claim, unbelieve. 0:22:43.520 --> 0:22:47.520 What is funny is that while Peterson himself doesn't like 0:22:47.640 --> 0:22:50.360 to identify his right wing, the Intellectual Dark Web website 0:22:50.359 --> 0:22:52.440 does identify him his right wing because like a whole 0:22:52.480 --> 0:22:54.919 part of its whole thing is that these guys are 0:22:54.960 --> 0:22:57.520 people who come from every side of the political spectrum, 0:22:57.520 --> 0:23:00.360 who exactly yes, I'll read you. How the web site 0:23:00.400 --> 0:23:04.120 describes the men of the Intellectual Dark Web. They all 0:23:04.119 --> 0:23:07.320 share two distinct and now uncommon qualities. First, they are 0:23:07.320 --> 0:23:10.040 willing to disagree fiercely but talk civilly about nearly every 0:23:10.040 --> 0:23:14.600