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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Behind the Bastards, the show where Cody

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Speaker 1: and I just finished laughing about Herman Kane. Not because

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Speaker 1: there's anything funny about a death from COVID nineteen, but

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Speaker 1: because the Kane Gang. The Kane Gang, which are the

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Speaker 1: people who have taken over this dead Man's Twitter account

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Speaker 1: tweeted out an article from Herman Kane dot com that said,

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Speaker 1: resume life is normal over scientists and health of professional Yeah. Yeah, anyway,

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Speaker 1: it's very gang going strong because the guy they're named

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Speaker 1: after cannot resume life is normal because COVID killed him.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. The article says, fine, so conflicting reports,

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Speaker 1: one from a ghost and one from the ghosts friends.

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Speaker 1: So well, this is probably a bad way to open

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Speaker 1: a podcast about and beat us another victim of COVID nineteen.

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Speaker 1: But we'll talk about that. Yeah, he got it. Did

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Speaker 1: you not know that? Did I miss? Oh? Cody, We're

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Speaker 1: gonna have fun in this episode. This is part two

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Speaker 1: of our Jordan B. Peterson episode. Um, Cody Johnston is

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Speaker 1: my guest. Some more news. They're also a podcast of

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Speaker 1: a similar name. Um, my former co worker had cracked. Uh,

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Speaker 1: the man who invented the drive system to the podcast

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Speaker 1: you do together. You're just not going to do that.

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Speaker 1: So Dr Jordan Peterson picked a good time to reveal

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Speaker 1: himself as the philosophy daddy of the new Right. Two

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Speaker 1: thousand seventeen was a great year for his brand. Trump

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Speaker 1: was president. New conversations about Western chauvinism. We're cracking into

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Speaker 1: the mainstream thanks to the alt Right and groups like

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Speaker 1: the Proud Boys, and Jordan Peterson was among the most

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Speaker 1: popular and highly paid speakers in the country. It is

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Speaker 1: he's super fucking rich, like his gold gear. He was

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Speaker 1: doing so good, Skyrocketingen was a bit better, and then

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Speaker 1: things got a lot worse. Uh So he was polite

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Speaker 1: in urban enough that he could avoid being lumped in

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Speaker 1: with every liberals new boogeyman at the time the alt right,

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Speaker 1: while still radicalizing and funneling new members into the alt right. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Some perceptive writers critiqued him for this, my personal favorite

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Speaker 1: being the McLean's writer who declared him the stupid person

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Speaker 1: smart person. Um, yeah, now that a lot of I

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Speaker 1: mean a lot that that describes a lot of people

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Speaker 1: in the That does describe a lot of people. Vlogo sphere.

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Speaker 1: I want to quote from that article To be clear,

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Speaker 1: Jordan Peterson is not a neo Nazi, but there's a

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Speaker 1: reason he's as popular he as he is on the

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Speaker 1: alt right. You'll never hear him use the phrase we

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Speaker 1: must secure a future for our white children. What you

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Speaker 1: will hear is him say that, well, there does appear

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Speaker 1: to be a causal relationship between empowering women and economic growth.

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Speaker 1: We have to consider whether this is good for society

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Speaker 1: because the birth rate is plumbing. That's a quote from

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Speaker 1: Jordan Peterson. Yep. He doesn't call for a white ethno state,

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Speaker 1: but he does retweet daily color articles with opening lines

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Speaker 1: like yet again an American city is being torn apart

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Speaker 1: by black rioters. He has dedicated two and a half

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Speaker 1: hour long YouTube videos to identity politics and the Marxist

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Speaker 1: fly of white privilege. I can't say marxistly and not

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Speaker 1: to avenge, I'm sorry. Yeah, it's just where I go,

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Speaker 1: and they require requires a voice every time. Whenever I

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Speaker 1: say antifa, I do that now too. It's antiva. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: It's it's just how it is, how it does these days. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So Jordan himself was careful to define himself as a

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Speaker 1: classic British liberal. This is not an uncommon line for

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Speaker 1: people to take when they hate things like trans rights,

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Speaker 1: but when a couch their bigotry in an appreciation for debate.

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Speaker 1: You'll never hear hate speech out of Jordan Peterson's mouth,

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Speaker 1: but he will be happy to explain to you when

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Speaker 1: his audience of millions that marginalized groups are infantilized by

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Speaker 1: identity politics and their offense, that the racism of his

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Speaker 1: white consumers is part of a culture of victimhood. Again,

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Speaker 1: no racial slurs, but he will explained to you why

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Speaker 1: it's wrong for people to be offended by racial slurs. Oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's why. He'll explain, like here's why it's wrong

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Speaker 1: to be offended by this, or here's why, Um, it's

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Speaker 1: natural to like fear people like feel fear the other

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Speaker 1: and things he's tweeted. He once tweeted an article about

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Speaker 1: the dangers of diversity and how diversity is bad. Um,

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Speaker 1: and that article was by Steve Sailor from v Dare,

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Speaker 1: who yeah, literally a guy who invented something called the

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Speaker 1: Sailor strategy, which was what Trump strategy was basically like,

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Speaker 1: go to the uh disaffected like white aggrieved white Americans,

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Speaker 1: uh and play that game um and in the article uh,

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Speaker 1: he cited a study about how like, yeah, if you

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Speaker 1: have diversity, um, it causes like some you know, tension

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Speaker 1: and between the different groups. Um. And he cites that

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Speaker 1: in the article. He hasn't mentioned the part of the

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Speaker 1: study that points out that but in the long run

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Speaker 1: it improves economy and social stat it like, over time,

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Speaker 1: diversity improves society. It's just at the beginning it you know,

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Speaker 1: people are tribal and it causes some strikes. It is

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Speaker 1: always interesting whenever Peterson will share something like that that

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Speaker 1: goes out of its way to not include part of

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Speaker 1: a study that is antithetical to what they're trying to

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Speaker 1: um to prove he's a good guy, studious, studious man,

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Speaker 1: good tweets, good twart m hmm. Okay. So Peterson's repeated

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Speaker 1: jabs at identity politics are extremely funny in light of

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Speaker 1: the ways that he's attempted to co opt indigenous identity

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Speaker 1: for his own crude benefit. Did you know about this, Cody?

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Speaker 1: Do you know about Jordan Peterson's claims that he's been

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Speaker 1: inducted into an Indigenous I remember this, Yeah, give it

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Speaker 1: to me. In two thousand eighteen, old tweets of Peterson's

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Speaker 1: surface where and he told some sort of joke about

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Speaker 1: an Indian bartender's quote from him Senator Murray Sinclair, who's

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Speaker 1: a Canadian senator, so like not a real senator, but

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Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, Um, that was a Canadian joke,

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Speaker 1: not an Indigenous person's joke. I'm making fun of Canadians. Um.

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Speaker 1: Senator Murray Sinclair, who's who's one of Canada's relatively few

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Speaker 1: Indigenous or First Nations senators got angry because Peterson was

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Speaker 1: furthering stereotypes about drunken Native Americans. That's like goes back

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Speaker 1: a long way. Um. And he also got kind of

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Speaker 1: angry because it's pretty shitty to call Indigenous people indians.

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Speaker 1: Um do that. There's I think different terms that kind

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Speaker 1: of people, certain people prefer, but no one seems to

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Speaker 1: like Indian. Um, let's not let's not use that one. Um.

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Speaker 1: One of Jordan's friends defended him by pointing at the

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Speaker 1: guy he had sent the tweet too, defended him by

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Speaker 1: pointing out that the joke that they were telling about

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Speaker 1: this Indian bartender was about a real incident with a

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Speaker 1: quote self identified Indian bartender who had duped Peterson's friend

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Speaker 1: out of a bottle of bourbon the night before Peterson

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Speaker 1: was set to become an honorary member of the Quaquaca

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Speaker 1: Wock tribe. Um. Now, all of this, I'm trying to

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Speaker 1: get it right. I looked it up in everything. I

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Speaker 1: don't normally do that, but yeah, um, all of this,

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Speaker 1: Hurwitz seemed to suggest was evidence that Peterson was not

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Speaker 1: biased against Native Americans, which is a statement that Peterson like,

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Speaker 1: liked and seconded on Twitter. Um. So, Peterson has repeatedly

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Speaker 1: brought up the fact that he was inducted into the

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Speaker 1: Quaquaca Wock tribe in order to defend himself from allegations

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Speaker 1: of racism. Into this and seventeen when a commentary on

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Speaker 1: Facebook suggested that he was a klansman. So this guy

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Speaker 1: on Facebook is like, you're basically you're in the KKK,

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Speaker 1: Peterson responded, if by KKK you mean Quaquaco lock of

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Speaker 1: whose nation I am a members? How it works? Short?

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Speaker 1: Very very good. Now. A reporter from a Canadian online magazine,

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Speaker 1: The Walrus, dug into this, and he found that Peterson

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Speaker 1: also claimed on the jacket of his book Twelve Routs

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Speaker 1: for Life that he had been inducted into the coastal

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Speaker 1: Pacific Quaquaca Walk Tribe. The reality of the situation as

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Speaker 1: the water was found was very different. Um there is

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Speaker 1: a quack walk a Walk artist named Charles Joseph Um

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Speaker 1: and numerous interviewers will note that Peterson's house is full

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Speaker 1: of Joseph's work, and we don't know what Peterson did

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Speaker 1: for Charles Joseph, but it was something really incredible and

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Speaker 1: like that he that that Charles Joseph like was deeply

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Speaker 1: impacted by. It was something meaningful enough that Charles Joseph

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Speaker 1: performed a special ritual to induct Jordan Peterson into his

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Speaker 1: family and as a result, he considers Jordan Peterson to

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Speaker 1: be a brother. There's obviously a huge honor and it

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Speaker 1: seems it's very clear that Jordan did something incredible to

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Speaker 1: help Charles. But as the walr was dubbed, they found

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Speaker 1: out that both Charles Joseph and the Quakwaka Walk tribe

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Speaker 1: disagree with Peterson's claims that he's been inducted into the

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Speaker 1: tribe because he was not Um. He was inducted into

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Speaker 1: Charles Joseph's family, but not into the tribe itself. It's

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Speaker 1: a very different thing, and it's a very important distinction.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, um, And it's Peterson kind of claiming

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Speaker 1: that he's a part of this tribe in order to

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Speaker 1: deflect allegations of racism is a kind of dishonesty I

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Speaker 1: find particularly off putting because the real story is perfectly honorable,

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Speaker 1: like you helped this man out to such a degree

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Speaker 1: that he inducted you into his family, and especially like

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Speaker 1: that's a that's something absolutely yeah, yeah, but he's not

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Speaker 1: what he's saying, and especially like in terms of like

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Speaker 1: what he's using the fake story to try to prove. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's the kind of thing were he to respond to

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Speaker 1: someone calling him racist with, well, actually, this one indigenous

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Speaker 1: person I know, like I did something so good for

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Speaker 1: him that he indefted me into his family. That would

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Speaker 1: sound kind of like gross and weird and like you

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Speaker 1: were kind of like and it wouldn't be nearly a

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Speaker 1: snappy saying I'm a member of the Quakako tribe, So like,

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Speaker 1: how could I be racist? Like one of them makes

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Speaker 1: a better debate point, and also the more honest version

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Speaker 1: makes it clear like hey, dude, you it seems like

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Speaker 1: you might be kind of like um cashing in on this, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're using kind of weird thing to like prove this

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Speaker 1: other thing. Yeah, it doesn't, it doesn't prove it anyway.

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Speaker 1: But also it's weird that you're using this to prove it. Yeah. Now,

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Speaker 1: the reality is that Jordan Peterson is someone who regularly

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Speaker 1: traffics in a kind of intellectual quasi bigotry masquerading as

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Speaker 1: intellectual curiosity. Some of his best lines include the idea

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Speaker 1: that women are were oppressed throughout history is an appalling theory,

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Speaker 1: and Islamophobia is a word created by fascists and used

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Speaker 1: by cowards to manipulate morons. White privileges a Marxist lie,

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Speaker 1: and believing that gender identity is subjective is as bad

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Speaker 1: as claiming that the world is flat? Oh is it?

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Speaker 1: It's as bad as that. That's good. That's good. That's

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Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of stuff, um from good

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Speaker 1: old Jordan's The i Q stuff is wild. Yeah, very

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Speaker 1: very rarely he um yeah not not not. I'm not

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Speaker 1: convinced by Jordan Peterson. Jordan B. Peterson, fake, fake, inducted

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Speaker 1: into a real tribe. It's weird, not not as compelling

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Speaker 1: as he thinks it is. No now Like Joseph Campbell,

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Speaker 1: who we talked about in our first episode. Jordan Peterson's

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Speaker 1: primary focus seems to have been Marxism, and it seems

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Speaker 1: like this probably started because he considered his fellow professors

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Speaker 1: to have been Marxist um and that that kind of

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Speaker 1: he generalized his frustration with these specific people who disagreed

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Speaker 1: with him because he hates it we need disagree with

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Speaker 1: him into a broader fear that Marxists worldwide we're in

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Speaker 1: the process of conquering every aspect of Western civilization. Peterson

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Speaker 1: tended to use the term postmodern neo Marxism or cultural

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Speaker 1: Marxism to essentially refer to the same idea. With the

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Speaker 1: fall of the USSR, Marxist lost the war with capitalism,

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Speaker 1: so they decided they had to sneak into the education

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Speaker 1: system and like brainwashed children's heads with, in Peterson's words, vicious, untenable,

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Speaker 1: and anti human ideas. That's how I would describe some

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Speaker 1: of his ideas. One anti human idea in Jordan's Reckoning

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Speaker 1: is that a college professor might get in trouble if

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Speaker 1: he specifically refused to refer to a transperson by their

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Speaker 1: chosen pronouns. Out of spite. That's to human anti human? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, Jordan's yeah, it's like the live literally

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Speaker 1: the opposite. Like we all have things that frustrate us

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Speaker 1: in society. These can be reasonable or not. I am

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Speaker 1: angry that every time I want to just drink one

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Speaker 1: or two beers or a fifth of vodka while driving

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Speaker 1: my four Runner through a trailer park and firing out

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Speaker 1: of the window with an AK forty seven, people get

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Speaker 1: really angry and the police show up, Like, I find

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Speaker 1: that anti human, But I understand that, like I, you know,

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Speaker 1: part of living in society is that you you take

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Speaker 1: certain actions or don't take certain actions, because everyone agrees

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Speaker 1: things work better when you're not shooting up trailer parks

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Speaker 1: drunkenly in your for Runner all the time. Yes, they do.

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Speaker 1: That's a society that's humans. It's that's human. That's the

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Speaker 1: way society will be until I want win my my

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Speaker 1: congressional campaign. Yeah, and introduce the drunk driving in trailer

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Speaker 1: parks while firing out the window bill, which openly openly

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Speaker 1: a vote for me. Yeah. Yeah. So, in a battle

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Speaker 1: with stakes as high as the survival of Western civilization,

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Speaker 1: Dr Peterson is willing to justify fighting dirty. He calls

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Speaker 1: ideas he disagrees within debates silly, ridiculous, absurd, insane. Debates

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Speaker 1: are described as combat, and his followers seemed to respond

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Speaker 1: well to this. In a few seconds of searching, it

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Speaker 1: took no time at all. I found videos titled Jordan

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Speaker 1: Peterson destroys Islam in fifteen seconds more than two million views,

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Speaker 1: Jordan Peterson Destroying Feminists, a compilation video with three forty

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Speaker 1: nine thousand views, and watch angry Jordan Peterson get up

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Speaker 1: and destroy student who tried to smear him seven forty

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Speaker 1: one thousand views. Now the fundamentally combative nature of the debates,

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Speaker 1: Peterson prefers to engage him. Let him to tell Camille

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Speaker 1: Paglia in a two thousand seventeen interview, if you're talking

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Speaker 1: to a man who wouldn't fight with you under any

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Speaker 1: circumstances whatsoever, then you're talking to someone for whom you

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Speaker 1: have absolutely no respect. He went on to explain that

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Speaker 1: he has more trouble dealing with crazy women because he

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Speaker 1: cannot hit them. How can you argue with someone if

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Speaker 1: you can't, exactly if you don't, If you don't, it's

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Speaker 1: also like this is wild because he's also the kind

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Speaker 1: of guy would be like, well, don't punch a Nazi, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Well yeah, Antifa's bad because they punched Nazis. Also, I

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Speaker 1: don't respect anyone who won't fight exactly um uh, consistently, inconsistent,

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Speaker 1: it's a beautiful thing. And all of that might make

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Speaker 1: you think that Dr Jordan Balthazar Peterson might be less

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Speaker 1: of a free speech buff than he appears to be.

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Speaker 1: The Guardian even notes quote Peterson's commitment to unfettered free

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Speaker 1: speech is questionable. Once you believe in a powerful and

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Speaker 1: maligned conspiracy, you start to justify extreme measures. Last July,

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Speaker 1: he announced plans to launch a website that would help

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Speaker 1: students and parents identify and avoid corrupt courses with postmodern

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Speaker 1: content within five years. He hoped this would starve postmodern

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Speaker 1: neo Marxist cult classes and do oblivion. Peterson shelved the

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Speaker 1: plan after a backlash, acknowledging that it might add excessively

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Speaker 1: to current polarization. Who could have predicted that blacklisting fellow

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Speaker 1: professors might exacerbate polarization? Apparently not the most influential public,

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Speaker 1: if intellectual in the Western world. Yeah, yeah, he likes

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Speaker 1: suing people too. He he loves suing people maybe, Like

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Speaker 1: it's just like, imagine what he would say if anyone

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Speaker 1: else did the same thing about him or the things

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Speaker 1: that he says. Just imagine what his response would be

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Speaker 1: to that, And like the idea that he needed a

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Speaker 1: backlash to be like, oh maybe this would maybe this

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Speaker 1: would cause some problems. Yep, maybe maybe maybe maybe so.

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Speaker 1: Jridan made buckets of money into Doant seventeen, but his

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Speaker 1: depression and his persistent feelings of imminent doom continued to

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Speaker 1: follow him. He told the Ottawa Citizen quote, in a

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Speaker 1: sensible world, I would have got my fifteen minutes of fame.

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Speaker 1: I feel like I'm surfing a giant wave and it

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Speaker 1: could come crashing down and wipe me out. Or I

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Speaker 1: could write it and continue. All of those options are

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Speaker 1: equally plausible. Keep that in mind too now. Meanwhile, people

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Speaker 1: who had befriended, supported, and aided Jordan throughout his career

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Speaker 1: increased increasingly felt frightened and betrayed by the path he

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Speaker 1: was taking. His old mentor, Professor Schiff, wrote that things

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Speaker 1: between them grew heated after Peterson's famous opposition to see

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Speaker 1: sixteen quote. This is from Professor Schiff. I have a

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Speaker 1: trans daughter, but that was hardly an issue compared to

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Speaker 1: what I felt was a betrayal of my trust and

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Speaker 1: confidence in him. It was an abuse of the trust

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Speaker 1: that comes with his professorial position, which I had fought for.

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Speaker 1: To have misrepresented gender science by dismissing the evidence that

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Speaker 1: the relationship of gender to biology is not absolute, and

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Speaker 1: to have made the claim that he could be jailed

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Speaker 1: when it worst he could be fined. In his defense,

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Speaker 1: Jordan told me that if he refused to pay the fine,

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Speaker 1: he could go to jail. That is not the same

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Speaker 1: as being jailed for what you say. But it did

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Speaker 1: ennoble him as a would be martyr in the defense

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Speaker 1: of free speech. Yeah, um, it did, and he knows that. Um.

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Speaker 1: A lot of his behavior Ine is uh. It becomes

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Speaker 1: very clear, like I'm talking about earlier in the pres episode,

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Speaker 1: about his sort of whether it was intentional or not.

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Speaker 1: Research into what what influences people and how to get

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Speaker 1: people on board with something with an idea, with an

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Speaker 1: ideology with belief the capital B belief, what, why, how

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Speaker 1: and why do people believe? Um? And what brings people

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Speaker 1: to to believe in like authoritarianism. Um and it Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he he knows, he knows what he's doing. He knows,

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Speaker 1: he knows exactly what he's doing. He knows he knows

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Speaker 1: exactly what he's doing. Um. Yeah, it's a he knows.

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Speaker 1: He knows a lot of things that he pretends to

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Speaker 1: not know. It's wild even just like watching clips of

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Speaker 1: him talk about different things, Uh in similar ways. There's

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Speaker 1: a you can find a few, uh, a few clips

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Speaker 1: of him talking on various podcasts about Hitler specifically and

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Speaker 1: the rise of Hitler. Sometimes he rationalizes it. It's like, well,

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Speaker 1: if you have this chaos, you you look for somebody

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Speaker 1: to bring order and make sense of that. Uh. It

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Speaker 1: could be it could be viewed as like Hitler apologia.

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Speaker 1: But um, given the benefit of the doubt and just say, uh,

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Speaker 1: he is explaining what people, uh, we're feeling. During the

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Speaker 1: rise of Nazi Germany. He has a whole video on

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Speaker 1: like you would have been a Nazi and like people

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Speaker 1: if you were there, you probably would have been a Nazi.

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Speaker 1: That's how the culture and society works. Um. And I

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Speaker 1: don't think Jordan Peterson is a Nazi. He definitely would

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Speaker 1: have been one. Also, Yeah, most people weren't Nazis until

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Speaker 1: the Nazi Like, even when the Nazis were in power,

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Speaker 1: Nazi Party membership was was not everybody Yeah, like yeah,

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Speaker 1: Jordan's is Um, I don't know. I do the same thing.

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Speaker 1: The episode that's running the week that we're recording this

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Speaker 1: is largely about how normal people became Nazis and how

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Speaker 1: they The scariest thing about it is that a lot

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Speaker 1: of people who were not monsters supported the Nazi Party

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Speaker 1: because of a lot of really uncomfortable realities of the

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Speaker 1: human condition. I think there's a responsible way, in an

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Speaker 1: irresponsible way to talk about that. The responsible way is

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Speaker 1: to try to inform people of the dangers in their

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Speaker 1: own thinking and the dangers in just sort of like

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Speaker 1: people's desire for safety and stability that can lead them

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Speaker 1: to support at least tacit least terrible things, and being like, well,

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Speaker 1: you would have supported the Nazis, so like, why are

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Speaker 1: you judgmental about Nazis? Yeah? Um yeah. And he even

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Speaker 1: has um. In contrast, you can hear him talk about

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Speaker 1: Trump a little bit in UM and in describing the

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Speaker 1: appeal of Donald Trump, it is uh indistinguishable from him

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Speaker 1: talking about Hitler um Internet of the the chaos and

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Speaker 1: the order and the things that people want and the

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Speaker 1: their fears, and how Trump is capitalizing on that. But

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Speaker 1: he doesn't make you ever make that connection. He's never

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Speaker 1: he uh presents it as positive um and not something

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Speaker 1: to be concerned about. He's never really criticized Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: for any of those reasons, while at the same time

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Speaker 1: ever talking about Hitler being uh the exact same way.

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Speaker 1: You can enter it. You can replace the names and

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Speaker 1: it would still be um. It would sound the same. Now, Cody,

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Speaker 1: you know who won't apologize for the rise of fascism?

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Speaker 1: Do they make beautiful, beautiful weapons? Oh well, Raytheon No,

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Speaker 1: of course not. Raytheon would never apologize for anything. That's

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Speaker 1: why you buy Raytheon products. Raytheon never apologize, never apologize.

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Speaker 1: Here's some other ats M. We're back. Ah. So now

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Speaker 1: we were talking about Schiff, Professor Schiff Jordan Peterson's old

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Speaker 1: mentor um and kind of like that writer with The

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Speaker 1: Guardian we quitted earlier, Shift is particularly concerned with Peterson's

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Speaker 1: conditional support of free speech. He knows Peterson well and

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Speaker 1: he began to see some pretty fashy tendencies from his friend,

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Speaker 1: Chief Among them were Peterson's relentless focus on transgender and

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Speaker 1: gender nonconforming people. And here's something that's basically what you

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Speaker 1: said earlier. Cody Jordan has studied and understands authoritarian demagogic leaders.

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Speaker 1: They know how to attract the following. In an interview

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Speaker 1: with Ethan Klein in an H three podcast, Jordan describes

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Speaker 1: as such, leaders learned to repeat those things which make

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Speaker 1: the crowd roar, and not repeat those things that do not.

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Speaker 1: The crowd roared the first time Jordan opposed the so

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Speaker 1: called transgender agenda, perhaps they would roar again, whether it

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Speaker 1: made sense or not. But why transgender in the first place.

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Speaker 1: In that same interview, Jordan's cites Carl Young, who talked

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Speaker 1: about the effectiveness of powerful emotional oratorical skills to tap

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Speaker 1: into the collective unconscious of a people and into their anger, resentment,

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Speaker 1: fear of chaos, and need for order. He talked about

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Speaker 1: how those demagogic leaders led by acting out the dark

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Speaker 1: desires of the momb yep, yeah, yeah, got them. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean that's yeah, that's it's it's when you just

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Speaker 1: a little delving in, you really see what he's doing. Um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: not hard, not not super complicated. Two eighteen, a massive

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Speaker 1: douche canoe named Eric Weinstein first used the term intellectual

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Speaker 1: dark Web on Sam Harris's Waking Up podcast. Now the

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Speaker 1: official Intellectual Dark Web website lists him as a vanguard

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Speaker 1: of the I d W, alongside Dr Jordan Peterson. Interestingly,

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Speaker 1: it calls Erica left wing person, which is fun because

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Speaker 1: he's the managing director of Teel Capital. Why is he

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Speaker 1: never he never address that, no one ever brings it up,

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Speaker 1: it's wild. Then he can still make that claim, unbelieve.

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Speaker 1: What is funny is that while Peterson himself doesn't like

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Speaker 1: to identify his right wing, the Intellectual Dark Web website

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Speaker 1: does identify him his right wing because like a whole

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Speaker 1: part of its whole thing is that these guys are

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Speaker 1: people who come from every side of the political spectrum,

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Speaker 1: who exactly yes, I'll read you. How the web site

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Speaker 1: describes the men of the Intellectual Dark Web. They all

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Speaker 1: share two distinct and now uncommon qualities. First, they are

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Speaker 1: willing to disagree fiercely but talk civilly about nearly every

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Speaker 1: meaningful subject where they of public discourse. Religion, abortion, gender identity, race, immigration,

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Speaker 1: the nature of consciousness. Many of the opinions they hold

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Speaker 1: on such topics can sometimes be in contrast with the

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Speaker 1: orthodox opinion of their respective tribe. Second, they are intellectually

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Speaker 1: honest and thus resists parroting what's politically convenient or politically correct.

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Speaker 1: Notable that not on that list of things worth discussing

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Speaker 1: as economics. That's weird, that's funny. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know.

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Speaker 1: We've got religion, abortion, gender, identity, race, immigration, the nature

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Speaker 1: of consciousness, all the things that are worth talking about it.

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Speaker 1: Those are all those are all the things not economics,

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Speaker 1: because all of these people are rich as shit. And

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Speaker 1: then because the same thing they agree on, Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: there's a list of people is really depressing. It's it's awesome.

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Speaker 1: It fucking rules, dude. So yeah. Later in two thousand eighteen,

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Speaker 1: New York Times editor Barry Weiss published a fawning article

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Speaker 1: on this set titled Meet the Renegades of the Intellectual

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Speaker 1: Dark Web. Fuck beautiful. It's beautiful. Of those man, I

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Speaker 1: will argue, sit alone in your own room and read

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Speaker 1: the title of that New York Times article to yourself

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Speaker 1: while looking at the picture that leads the article, and

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Speaker 1: tell me that you don't full a second inhabit the

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Speaker 1: mental space of a high school bully who just wants

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Speaker 1: to dunk someone's head in a toilet, Like, just just

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Speaker 1: do it. Try it. Do your best to not feel

425
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:32,640
Speaker 1: that it's a look God speaking, because my god, oh

426
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:37,240
Speaker 1: my god, that photo. Take another one. It's amazing. Did

427
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:42,080
Speaker 1: you have like a one shot left? Yeah, it's a

428
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:44,880
Speaker 1: bad article about people I hate, in some cases, people

429
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:47,480
Speaker 1: I personally hate, because Claire Lemon's on there and clear

430
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 1: Lyman basically said it was okay that really wonderful people

431
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:52,639
Speaker 1: like Jason Wilson of The Guardian, who's one of the

432
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:55,040
Speaker 1: best reporters in the entire country, deserve to have death

433
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:57,880
Speaker 1: threats put against him because clear Lyman sucks. She's the editor.

434
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:02,560
Speaker 1: She's trashed. Um. You can read the article if you want.

435
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 1: But the fact that nearly all these guys have only

436
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,240
Speaker 1: grown less relevant in the last two years ought to

437
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:10,480
Speaker 1: say something. But during the first half of the Trump regime,

438
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:12,919
Speaker 1: Jordan B. Peterson never found a culture war. He wouldn't

439
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:16,440
Speaker 1: throw some bullets towards. When James dam Or, the Google engineer,

440
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 1: was filed for writing about the company's ideological echo chamber,

441
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:21,919
Speaker 1: Peterson spoke out in his defense. He repeatedly brought the

442
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,639
Speaker 1: engineer up in debates as evidence that talk about discrimination

443
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,199
Speaker 1: of marginalized groups was overblown and white men were the

444
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 1: real victims. In part on the strength of his endorsement

445
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:32,480
Speaker 1: by Peterson and other I d w Types, James dem

446
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,119
Speaker 1: Or filed a lawsuit against Google. He dropped it earlier

447
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 1: this year, with the exact nature of the resolution unknown.

448
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:40,119
Speaker 1: Harmy Dylan I think was the lawyer in charge of

449
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:41,879
Speaker 1: that case who also threatened me with a lawsuit for

450
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:43,719
Speaker 1: telling the truth about Andy Know, which is that he's

451
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:46,159
Speaker 1: a giant piece of ship and a grifter. I ignored

452
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:48,719
Speaker 1: the lawsuit, fuck it like he did, never did anything

453
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,680
Speaker 1: because it was It's a thing that lawyers do sometimes

454
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:53,960
Speaker 1: if they're shady, where they like throw out bullshit, cease

455
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:55,960
Speaker 1: and assists just try to stop speech they don't like.

456
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:58,960
Speaker 1: Because people think that there's actually legal weight behind those things.

457
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:04,720
Speaker 1: Generally isn't fuck them. Yeah, So it's worth noting that

458
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 1: there were basically no stories about James dam Or from

459
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 1: likeeen up until the case was dropped earlier this year.

460
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:12,720
Speaker 1: The only other article I found mentioning him recently was

461
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 1: a Telegraph article about how a bunch of Silicon Valley

462
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 1: firms were hiring white supremacy consultants to avoid bringing people

463
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 1: like Damron in the future, which is funny because Harmona

464
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 1: Dylan was like, Oh, this case is really going to

465
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 1: make them think twice before they do this again. And

466
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:26,479
Speaker 1: what it actually made them do is be like, oh,

467
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:28,159
Speaker 1: we actually need to hire people to make sure we're

468
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 1: not hiring white supremacists. This seems to be a problem.

469
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:38,920
Speaker 1: It's very funny. That's very funny. The little joys, it's

470
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 1: little things. It's the little things in life you treasure.

471
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:46,200
Speaker 1: On January sixteenth, two thousand eighteen, Jordan Balthazar Peterson published

472
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,400
Speaker 1: his second book, Twelve Rules for Life and Antidote to Chaos.

473
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,720
Speaker 1: Unlike the sprawling and complex Maps of Meaning, Twelve Rules

474
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:56,120
Speaker 1: is short, pointed and targeted directly at insecure men. Peterson

475
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,639
Speaker 1: writes men have to toughen up. Men demand it, and

476
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:06,359
Speaker 1: women want it. His first rule is stand up straight

477
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:08,199
Speaker 1: with your shoulders back, and of course that's not a

478
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 1: bad thing. Good posture is perfectly healthy, and it's goods

479
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,400
Speaker 1: of us good to stand to have better posture. Absolutely,

480
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 1: most of his rules are not inherently unreasonable and In fact,

481
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:19,560
Speaker 1: part of what he did in this book was right

482
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 1: out something that basically anyone could read through and be like,

483
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:25,159
Speaker 1: oh yeah, that's pretty reasonable stuff. It is standard self

484
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:29,239
Speaker 1: health help book. It is very general advice, be like,

485
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:34,400
Speaker 1: believe in yourself, like that there's some ship, sinister ship

486
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:36,800
Speaker 1: under the surface, which we talk about. But I want

487
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 1: to summarize the main points he makes. The main Rules

488
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 1: for Life. A Psychology Today article written by the same

489
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 1: PhD who reviewed Maps of Meaning. We quoted from that earlier,

490
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:47,720
Speaker 1: and we'll quote from it a little bit too, summarizes

491
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,119
Speaker 1: the surface content of twelve rules for Life. Thus, Lee,

492
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:53,439
Speaker 1: stand up for yourself, take care of yourself, make friends,

493
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:56,199
Speaker 1: don't compare yourself to others. Mind your children, set your

494
00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:59,240
Speaker 1: house in order, pursue meaning, tell the truth, listen to people,

495
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:03,160
Speaker 1: be precise, Give children freedom, and enjoy pets the day.

496
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 1: I don't disagree with any of that. Fine enough, Mind

497
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 1: your children, Give your children freedom. Yeah, you gotta do both.

498
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:14,919
Speaker 1: You gotta do both. Interesting thing about the mind your

499
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 1: children is that the real rule is don't let your

500
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 1: child do anything that makes you dislike them. Yeah anyway, yeah, yeah.

501
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 1: That review continues part of Peterson's appeal comes through lively

502
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,119
Speaker 1: stories from the Bible, fairy tales, his personal life, and

503
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 1: his practice as a clinical psychologist. All benign enough again,

504
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:35,440
Speaker 1: but it's when you read into the book that fucked

505
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 1: up ship starts to bubble up. Like the line consciousness

506
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 1: is symbolically masculine and has been since the beginning of time,

507
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:45,680
Speaker 1: and also the soul of the individual eternally hungers for

508
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 1: the heroism of genuine being. Now. I don't know how

509
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 1: that line reads to Normy's um, but it seems pretty

510
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 1: fashy to me, and also to Penka's Mishra, who wrote

511
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 1: that article about fascist mysticism, and Jordan Peterson for the

512
00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 1: New York Review of Books, Pankaj writes that Peter person

513
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 1: basically positions his book as an answer to the crisis

514
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 1: facing Western civilization. Quote. Peterson diagnoses this crisis as a

515
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 1: loss of faith in old verities in the West. He writes,

516
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 1: we have been withdrawing from our tradition, religion, and even

517
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 1: nation centered cultures. Peterson offers to alleviate the resulting desperation

518
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 1: of meaninglessness with a return to ancient wisdom. It is

519
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,720
Speaker 1: possible to avoid nihilism, he asserts, and to find sufficient

520
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 1: meaning and individual consciousness and experience with the help of

521
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 1: the great myths and religious stories of the past quote

522
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 1: following Carl Young. Peterson identifies archetypes in myths, dreams, and religions,

523
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 1: which have apparently defined truths of the human conditions since

524
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 1: the beginning of time culture. One of his typical arguments

525
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 1: goes is symbolically archetypeally mythically male, and this is why

526
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:45,960
Speaker 1: resistance to male dominance is unnatural. Men represent order and chaos.

527
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 1: The unknown is symbolically associated with the feminine. Now, mm hmm.

528
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 1: Reading all that, nah, it's sucket. Reading all of this

529
00:29:57,600 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 1: made me think back to that first Psychology Today review,

530
00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 1: the one that focused on maps of meaning quote. The

531
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 1: assumption of the cultural universality of myths is important for

532
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 1: Peterson because he wants mythology to provide the basis for

533
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 1: the psychological, philosophical, and political understanding of morality. But his

534
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 1: evidence for the generality of such myths is limited to

535
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 1: the tradition that runs from Mesopotamia through Judaism to Christianity,

536
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 1: with occasional references to Buddhism. Counter examples to cultural universality

537
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 1: are abundant, such as the Piraja people of Brazil, who

538
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 1: have no creation myths or interest in beliefs that go

539
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 1: beyond personal experience. The Iroquois people of North America do

540
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 1: have myths about creation and other aspects of the world,

541
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 1: but they do not follow the father, mother's son motif

542
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 1: that Peterson thinks is universal. Chinese mythology includes many gods

543
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 1: but no indication of the heroic son that Peterson over

544
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 1: generalizes from Christianity. So again, Peterson would never be so

545
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 1: crude to, like a proud boy, declare that West is

546
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 1: best or advocate for open white supremacy, because that would

547
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:57,960
Speaker 1: be risking his following and his money. Instead, he declares

548
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,200
Speaker 1: that the myths he uses to base his morals them

549
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 1: that he thinks everyone should follow in the whole world,

550
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 1: that those myths are universal to all cultures, while deliberately

551
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 1: excluding any discussion of cultures whose myths don't support his beliefs.

552
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 1: It's a kind of internal ideological ethnic cleansing, and Jordan B.

553
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 1: Peterson is very good at it. In interviews, Dr Peterson

554
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 1: is clear that fascism and authoritarianism is bad. At the

555
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 1: same time, he regularly reinforces the arguments made by fascists

556
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 1: and authoritarians in his work. From the New York Review

557
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 1: of Books quote, those embattled against political correctness on university

558
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 1: campuses will heartily endorse Peterson's claim that there are whole

559
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 1: disciplines and universities forthrightly hostile towards men. Islamophobes will take

560
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 1: heart from his speculation that feminists avoid criticizing Islam because

561
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 1: they unconsciously long for masculine dominance. Libertarians will cheer Peterson's

562
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 1: glorification of the individual striver and his stern message to

563
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 1: the left behinds maybe it's not the world that's at fault.

564
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 1: Maybe it's you. You fail to make the mark. The

565
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 1: demagogues of our age don't read much, but as they

566
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 1: ruthlessly crack down on refugees and immigrants, they can derive

567
00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:00,720
Speaker 1: much philosophical backup from Peterson's sub chapter headings Compassion is

568
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:06,240
Speaker 1: a vice and toughen up, you weasel. That's yeah, yep, yep,

569
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 1: it's all there. He's he's really skilled at not saying

570
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:12,720
Speaker 1: it's not saying quite not. He gets you a little,

571
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 1: he gets you there. He's laying the foundation. Yeah. And

572
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 1: and that article on Peterson and fascist mysticism gets into

573
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 1: what's problematic about stuff like compassions, device and toughened up,

574
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 1: you weasel, problematic beyond what you might initially assume. Quote.

575
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 1: Peterson rails today against softness, arguing that men have been

576
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 1: pushed too hard to feminize, and his best selling book Degeneration,

577
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 1: the Zionist critic Max Nordau amplified more than a century

578
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 1: before Peterson the fear that empires and nations of the

579
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 1: West are populated by the weak will, the effeminate, and

580
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 1: the degenerate. The French philosopher Georges Sorel identified myth is

581
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 1: the necessary antidote to decadence and spur to rejuvenation and

582
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 1: intellectual inspiration to fascists across Europe. Sorel was particularly nostalgic

583
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 1: about the patriarchal systems of ancient Israel and Greece. It

584
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 1: was against this eerie fem of your background, a revolt

585
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:03,800
Speaker 1: against the modern world, As the title of a Volas

586
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty four book put it, that demagogues emerged so

587
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:09,960
Speaker 1: quickly in twentieth century Europe and managed to exalt national

588
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 1: and racial myths is the true source of individual and

589
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 1: collective health. The drastic individual makeover demanded by the visionaries

590
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 1: turned out to require a mass, coercid retreat from failed

591
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 1: liberal modernity into an idealized traditional realm of myth and

592
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 1: ritual that all scans real real Well yeah, um yeah,

593
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 1: it's a h uh, there's a ah, there's just a

594
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:44,959
Speaker 1: lot there. He doesn't it's yeah, it's it's like it's this,

595
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:47,480
Speaker 1: I mean, it's the constant rejective of modernity. And it's

596
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:50,000
Speaker 1: like it's contempt for the week is what it really

597
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 1: comes down to. Uh, like contempt for and resentment of

598
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,480
Speaker 1: what you perceive as weakness or weak people, weak types

599
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 1: of people, weeks way, weak ways of thinking. Um. And

600
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 1: uh again it's not like on its face, you're not

601
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 1: like that's fascism, but like you just like a little

602
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:13,719
Speaker 1: dig a little deeper, scratch a little bit, or like

603
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:19,880
Speaker 1: go a little further to what like what's the next step,

604
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:22,360
Speaker 1: what's the law's like extrapolate for a bit, what do

605
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:25,799
Speaker 1: you think should happen? Then? Um? Also side note, I

606
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:29,239
Speaker 1: think his weird thing about we need to get back

607
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 1: to like why all the Marxist there, we're getting away

608
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:34,759
Speaker 1: from nation centered cultures. Do you think like maybe part

609
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:36,799
Speaker 1: of just like the natural reason that we're getting away

610
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:38,880
Speaker 1: from the nation centered cultures is because, like the Internet

611
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:42,480
Speaker 1: connects people instantly across the globe, and like we as

612
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:46,359
Speaker 1: humans are like evolving across the like's. Yeah, maybe if

613
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 1: you have a bunch of friends who like, because of

614
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:50,080
Speaker 1: some weird lines on a map, can't ever visit you

615
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 1: or you can't visit them, maybe you start to be like,

616
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:57,880
Speaker 1: oh huh, it seems like a bad idea. We should

617
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 1: do something else. Maybe the best I da for how

618
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:04,400
Speaker 1: we organized the world wasn't thought up like hundreds of

619
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:09,280
Speaker 1: years ago. By yeah, there's a better thing than nations, Like, yeah,

620
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 1: what not nations? What about horizontal methods of social organization

621
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:20,279
Speaker 1: that avoid vesting unreasonable powers in individual human beings who

622
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 1: are never fit to wield it. I don't know, sorry,

623
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:27,919
Speaker 1: I'm just your anti hercle. I'm anti human. Yeah, yeah,

624
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:30,920
Speaker 1: it's anti human for sure. It's anti human. Urging us

625
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 1: to be more connected and equal across the globe is

626
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:38,239
Speaker 1: anti human. Very good, yes, fundamentally, which is why I'm

627
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:41,360
Speaker 1: very pro robot and why my entire house is nothing

628
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:45,320
Speaker 1: but Amazon Alexas and a filthy mattress. Now in maps

629
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 1: of meeting Jordan Peterson analyzed a number of authoritarian regimes

630
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:51,319
Speaker 1: and totalitarian crimes. He came away with the conclusion that

631
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:54,800
Speaker 1: the heroic individual was the only way that to avoid

632
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 1: such horrors. On page three, he notes the hero rejects

633
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:02,280
Speaker 1: identification with the group as the ideal of life, preferring

634
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:04,399
Speaker 1: to follow the dictates of his conscience and his heart.

635
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 1: His identification with meaning and his refusal to sacrifice meaning

636
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 1: for security renders existence acceptable despite its tragedy, And on

637
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 1: page four eight three, A society predicated upon belief in

638
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 1: the paramount divinity of the individual allows paramount interest to

639
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 1: flourish and to serve as the power that opposes the

640
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:24,799
Speaker 1: tyranny of culture and the terror of nature. It's really

641
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 1: it's just like really good at obvious skating. Uh, he's

642
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:37,280
Speaker 1: saying with his language. Yeah, it's fake profundity to convince

643
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 1: people that anything you're not, you don't personally like, is

644
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:42,879
Speaker 1: an assault on you. But anything you want to do,

645
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:45,959
Speaker 1: if someone tries to stop you, it means that they're

646
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:50,279
Speaker 1: they're bad culture or whatever. Yeah, you know who likes

647
00:36:50,640 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 1: cults of heroism Nazis Nazis Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean,

648
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,840
Speaker 1: and it's also worth noting that not only does Nazi

649
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:05,919
Speaker 1: or fascism in particular, as umberto Eco noted, have an

650
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 1: obsession with the cult of the hero, but also the

651
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:10,800
Speaker 1: story of fascisms rise in Europe is the story of

652
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 1: a lot of individual heroic people who failed to stop

653
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:16,880
Speaker 1: Nazism from happening. You can say the same thing for

654
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 1: the horrible crimes committed in you know, the USSR and

655
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:22,360
Speaker 1: Malis China. There were a lot of decent, individual heroic

656
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:24,840
Speaker 1: people who were like, this is a bad idea, we

657
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 1: shouldn't do this, and they didn't get their way because

658
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 1: individuals have very limited power. And perhaps if people in

659
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:34,359
Speaker 1: say bym Our Germany, had been less obsessed with their

660
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:37,880
Speaker 1: own personal lives and their own personal political opinions, with

661
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 1: cleaning their room, so to speak, and perhaps if more

662
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 1: of them had been willing to get out on the

663
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:44,880
Speaker 1: street and organized together and physically resist, perhaps the Nazis

664
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:46,399
Speaker 1: and would not have risen the way that it did.

665
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 1: Perhaps perhaps count counterpoint um the idea of consciousness within

666
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 1: our trails off and then we give him money right

667
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:02,239
Speaker 1: until yeah, exactly, just like Peterson views totalitarianism as a

668
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 1: spiritual problem. According to Psychology Today, He contends that it

669
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:09,160
Speaker 1: is the result of neglecting the moral tradition rooted in Christianity.

670
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:11,560
Speaker 1: The best way to resolve this problem is spiritual, based

671
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:14,680
Speaker 1: on the divinity of the individual. For Peterson, the solution

672
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:19,399
Speaker 1: to totalitarianism is a combination of religion and individualism. Now,

673
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 1: I happen to find this fascinating when you juxtapose it

674
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:24,239
Speaker 1: with a passage from another wonderful book about Peterson in

675
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:27,799
Speaker 1: The New Yorker it notes, or another wonderful article about

676
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:30,880
Speaker 1: Peterson in The New Yorker it notes. Peterson seems to

677
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 1: view Trump, by contrast, as a symptom of modern problems,

678
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:36,400
Speaker 1: rather than a cause of them. He suggests that Trump's

679
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,400
Speaker 1: rise was unfortunate but inevitable, part of the same process

680
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:41,799
Speaker 1: he writes as the rise of the far right politicians

681
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 1: in Europe. If men are pushed too hard to feminize,

682
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:46,240
Speaker 1: he warns, they will become more and more interested in harsh,

683
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:51,120
Speaker 1: fascist political ideology. Peterson sometimes asks audiences to view him

684
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:54,319
Speaker 1: as an alternative to political excesses on both sides. During

685
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:56,759
Speaker 1: an interview on BBC Radio five, he said, I've had

686
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 1: thousands of letters from people who are tempted by the

687
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:01,240
Speaker 1: blandishments of the radical right who moved towards the reasonable

688
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 1: center as a consequence of watching my videos. But he

689
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:07,319
Speaker 1: typically sees liberals or leftists or postmodernists as aggressors, which

690
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 1: leads him rather ironically to frame some of those on

691
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:14,719
Speaker 1: the radical right as victims. Yeah, yeah, he does that. Um,

692
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:17,719
Speaker 1: it's it's interesting because there's uh, I mean, I don't

693
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 1: think it's controversial to say that Donald Trump and the

694
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 1: rise of Trump is a symptom of society's problems as

695
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 1: opposed to the cause of them. Sure, but it is

696
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:28,400
Speaker 1: the cause of some problems. But yet Yeah, it's basically

697
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 1: the cause of like a lot of our problems these

698
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:33,440
Speaker 1: days and exacerbates a lot of our problems. But like society,

699
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:37,840
Speaker 1: uh was suffering for a lot of reasons. And uh,

700
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 1: that's what's strong men do. They They demagogue, They come in,

701
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 1: they say I can solve I can fix all your problems. Um.

702
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:46,840
Speaker 1: But the way Jordan talks about it, uh, it's he

703
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:51,920
Speaker 1: it's justifying it. It's not like his his his prescription

704
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:55,200
Speaker 1: is not oh yeah, like this inequality or like this

705
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:58,359
Speaker 1: or like people's material needs or anything like that. It's like, oh, yeah,

706
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:00,719
Speaker 1: Trump was inevitable, and he's to bring order to the

707
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 1: chaos because all these people are victims and they need

708
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 1: a man to come in and solve their problems. Uh,

709
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:14,160
Speaker 1: and bring order to that chaos like another guy he's

710
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 1: talked about in the exact same way. Um. Or another option,

711
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:20,800
Speaker 1: we could go to Mr Peterson and see what he

712
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 1: wants us to do and just sort of listen to

713
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 1: him and his every word. There's a little interview, Uh,

714
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 1: I forget who was interviewing him. He's asked about his

715
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:35,360
Speaker 1: fans and his responses. I don't have fans, and he

716
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 1: doesn't finish it. He hasn't finished his thought, but he

717
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 1: does he does have followers, Yes he does. See that

718
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:44,959
Speaker 1: is the word he was alluding to. Yep, yep, yep.

719
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:47,759
Speaker 1: I may have to create a countercult to deal with

720
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 1: his cult. Sophie Robert Sophie, can we um? Can we

721
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 1: look into how many people I have to have worshiping

722
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:59,440
Speaker 1: my words in order to buy like an arms export license?

723
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:02,359
Speaker 1: And I don't know, create some sort of we should

724
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:05,239
Speaker 1: we should talk about this offline, um, But I I do.

725
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 1: I think we should get maybe maybe loop the fine

726
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:11,439
Speaker 1: folks at raytheon and on that call, Yeah, this would

727
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 1: be great. I'm gonna get that land in Idaho too.

728
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:17,040
Speaker 1: So Peterson talks a good game about the horrors of Nazism,

729
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:20,520
Speaker 1: but his rhetoric very often turns worryingly close to the

730
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:26,200
Speaker 1: exact same ship Nazi. Seems to say that. For example, liberals,

731
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:28,759
Speaker 1: he says, are always talking about the importance of compassion,

732
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:31,240
Speaker 1: and yet there's nothing more horrible for children and developing

733
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 1: people than an excess of compassion. This horror, he says,

734
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:36,919
Speaker 1: is embodied in the figure of the Freudian devouring mother.

735
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:39,360
Speaker 1: As an example, he cites Ursula, the sea witch for

736
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:44,719
Speaker 1: the Little Mermaid. Oh he loves Disney. Oh he loves

737
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:48,439
Speaker 1: how Disneys is destroyed. And it's never like the like, yeah,

738
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 1: Disney's like this media conglomer they own everything, and that's bad.

739
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:53,520
Speaker 1: But it's always like it's propaganda to tell you that

740
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 1: your daughter can do what she wants. It's more to

741
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:01,880
Speaker 1: me his obsession and with how compassion is bad and

742
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:07,239
Speaker 1: how softness is a problem in society, because yeah, it's

743
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:09,880
Speaker 1: familiar if you read a funk load of Hitler speeches,

744
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:13,799
Speaker 1: because one of Hitler's favorite words was hardness and how

745
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 1: people German Men needed to be harder like the Germany

746
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:20,839
Speaker 1: needed to raise up a generation that was as hard

747
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:23,279
Speaker 1: as kraft stall, which is like a specific kind of

748
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 1: steel making weapons manufacturer. Yeah. Now, German Morgue Hitler thought

749
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 1: that german Men were going to need to be as

750
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:31,520
Speaker 1: hard as steal if they were going to steer their

751
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:33,239
Speaker 1: nation back from the brink of despair, because it was

752
00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 1: going to require them to do unpleasant things. I want

753
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:39,319
Speaker 1: to quote now from an article in the Journal of

754
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:42,520
Speaker 1: Central European History by Thomas Coon. The article's title is

755
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 1: Protean masculinity, hegemonic masculinity. Soldiers in the Third Reich, hegemonic

756
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:51,400
Speaker 1: masculinity and Nazi Germany, as well as in many militarized

757
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:55,120
Speaker 1: societies around the globe, meant physical, emotional, and moral hardness.

758
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:57,640
Speaker 1: The ideal man embodied by the soldier was tough and

759
00:42:57,680 --> 00:42:59,880
Speaker 1: aggressive and control of his body, mind and psyche. He

760
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 1: did not hesitate to sacrifice life and limb on behalf

761
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:05,640
Speaker 1: of the fatherland, or to subordinate his individuality under the

762
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:08,720
Speaker 1: command of a conformist group of comrades. Whereas many scholars

763
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:12,120
Speaker 1: have already stressed these features of hegemonic masculinity, this article

764
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:14,640
Speaker 1: argues that the act of soldiering provided men with a

765
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:18,359
Speaker 1: male identity that was ultimately not defined by the repudiation,

766
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:21,320
Speaker 1: but rather integration of what was and is often coded

767
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 1: as feminine and the social practice of male interaction. Diversity

768
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:27,319
Speaker 1: and flexibility were needed, thus allowing for the display of

769
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:31,320
Speaker 1: femininely coded behavior like affection, tenderness, empathy, caring, and tolerance

770
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 1: towards emotional breakdowns and moments of weakness in their midst

771
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:38,360
Speaker 1: Thanks to its inclusive nature, such protean masculinity enabled different

772
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:41,439
Speaker 1: types of soldier men to establish male identities. It also

773
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:44,040
Speaker 1: allowed them to switch among different emotional and moral states

774
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:46,880
Speaker 1: without losing their manliness. Yet this was true only if

775
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:52,520
Speaker 1: the predominance of hardness was respected. Eventually, protean masculinity integrated

776
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:55,319
Speaker 1: diverse men and diverse emotional and moral conditions into a

777
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:57,279
Speaker 1: fighting unit and, in the case of the Third Reich,

778
00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:03,040
Speaker 1: into a gendicidal society. So this idea that like they

779
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:06,640
Speaker 1: had to they had to reject femininity, but also feminine

780
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 1: traits or traits they considered feminine, were inherent aspects of

781
00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:12,080
Speaker 1: the people they needed to make into soldiers. So the

782
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:14,520
Speaker 1: thing that was most important for the Nazis was developed

783
00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:16,480
Speaker 1: this idea of hardness, and you could break down, you

784
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 1: could be emotional, you could cry, you could be like

785
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:22,000
Speaker 1: fucked up by the violent acts you were committing. As

786
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:24,720
Speaker 1: long as you exhibited that hardness, that was all that mattered,

787
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:28,319
Speaker 1: because the essence of masculinity was a willingness to do

788
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:32,640
Speaker 1: hard things as specified by brutality, right like that, to

789
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:35,080
Speaker 1: do it anyway, even though you're gonna have that reaction

790
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 1: to it, um, but you still do it. You can't

791
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:40,799
Speaker 1: still keep doing it m hm. Which is why there's

792
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:44,360
Speaker 1: actually quite a few stories about men like shooting thousands

793
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:46,839
Speaker 1: of Jewish people to death and like weeping while they

794
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:49,319
Speaker 1: did it, but like they still did it. They Yeah,

795
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:53,200
Speaker 1: they're hard, they're hard enough hard men. I'm proud of

796
00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:55,479
Speaker 1: us for saying hardness this many times and not making

797
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:57,719
Speaker 1: an erection joke, Cody. I think we did a great job,

798
00:44:57,719 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 1: and I think we're still doing a really good job,

799
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:01,600
Speaker 1: and referencing that didn't do it doesn't count us doing it,

800
00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:04,560
Speaker 1: so it does not. I just think are the kind

801
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:08,120
Speaker 1: of heroism that we exhibited there should be celebrated. Yeah,

802
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:11,280
Speaker 1: it would say that, I don't know, you should celebrate Robbert,

803
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 1: you know what will make erection jokes while quoting Hitler speeches.

804
00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:19,560
Speaker 1: That's exactly what I was going to say. The products

805
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 1: and services that support this podcast fantastic. I can't wait

806
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:30,799
Speaker 1: to hear both of those things said by them. We're back.

807
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:34,239
Speaker 1: So Jordan Peterson is just a teacher, you know, he's

808
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:36,440
Speaker 1: a lecturer, he's an author. And one might argue that

809
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 1: it's silly to keep harping on what an obvious fascist

810
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:40,440
Speaker 1: the dude is, given his distance from any kind of

811
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:43,880
Speaker 1: actual power, But according to Professor Schiff, Dr Peterson has

812
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 1: in fact seriously considered getting into politics and grabbing power.

813
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:50,440
Speaker 1: He seriously investigated the possibility of running for leadership of

814
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:53,440
Speaker 1: the federal Conservative Party of Canada. While he was discouraged

815
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:56,279
Speaker 1: in pursuing this by influential friends, he did stick his

816
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 1: hand into Canadian politics, pushing Party leader Andrew Sheer to

817
00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:02,800
Speaker 1: propose that Universe funding be cut by until politically correct

818
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:08,560
Speaker 1: schools were reined in. Yeah, might not be free speech

819
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:12,360
Speaker 1: if you're doing that, I'd say yeah. In two thousand nineteen,

820
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:15,719
Speaker 1: he went to d C where he lectured Congress about bipartisanship,

821
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:18,480
Speaker 1: which again might sound great if you don't remember the

822
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 1: weird ship Peterson has been saying about wanting to save

823
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:23,320
Speaker 1: people from both political extremes via his weird quasi Christian

824
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:28,240
Speaker 1: sort of fashion mystical morality. Bullshit, m it's like a questionable.

825
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:31,480
Speaker 1: Maybe it's frustrating to have to know like everything the

826
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:35,680
Speaker 1: man's written and said, to really like approach everything he

827
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:37,880
Speaker 1: does with like, well, okay, you do this, But also

828
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:41,799
Speaker 1: m hmm, yeah, I think it's fine to just see

829
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:44,439
Speaker 1: what experts in his field have have said, and also

830
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:47,040
Speaker 1: to analyze a lot of the things that he said, Um,

831
00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:49,640
Speaker 1: but not all of them, because that's an unreasonable bar

832
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:53,279
Speaker 1: to hold someone too before critiquing them. So once he

833
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:55,560
Speaker 1: got famous, obviously he started think about getting into politics

834
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:57,640
Speaker 1: and maybe he'll try to do that someday. But before

835
00:46:57,640 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 1: he got famous and politics seemed like a less real

836
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 1: listic career choice for him, he was still veering in

837
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:06,200
Speaker 1: a distinctly unsettling direction and going away from traditional academia,

838
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:09,320
Speaker 1: which had never really been his bag. From Professor Shift's

839
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:12,320
Speaker 1: article quote, several years ago, Jordan Peterson told me he

840
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:14,719
Speaker 1: wanted to buy a church. This was long before he

841
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:17,279
Speaker 1: became known as the most influential public intellectual in the

842
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:19,080
Speaker 1: Western world, as he was described in the pages of

843
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:20,759
Speaker 1: The New York Times a few months ago. It was

844
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:22,880
Speaker 1: before he was fancied to be a truth telling sage

845
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:24,560
Speaker 1: who inspired legions and the author of one of the

846
00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:26,319
Speaker 1: best selling books in the world this year. He was

847
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:28,600
Speaker 1: just my colleague and friend. I assumed that this was

848
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:30,480
Speaker 1: for a new home. There was a trend in Toronto

849
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:34,040
Speaker 1: of converting religious spaces vacant because of their dwindling congregations

850
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:36,920
Speaker 1: into stylish lofts. But he corrected me. He wanted to

851
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:39,480
Speaker 1: establish a church, he said, in which he would deliver

852
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:44,000
Speaker 1: sermons every Sunday. Now, Professor Shift knows Peterson better and

853
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:45,680
Speaker 1: has known him longer than I would say any members

854
00:47:45,719 --> 00:47:47,520
Speaker 1: of the intellectual dark web to be certain, and then

855
00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:50,279
Speaker 1: most people. Um. By late two thousand eighteen, Shift was

856
00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:53,400
Speaker 1: worried enough about his friend that he published this article,

857
00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:56,680
Speaker 1: which was clearly a very painful decision for him to make. Again,

858
00:47:56,719 --> 00:47:58,319
Speaker 1: he lets this guy live in his house for like

859
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:02,759
Speaker 1: six months. Um, yeah, we get all these promotions, like

860
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:05,520
Speaker 1: they were like, yeah, you fought for him to get

861
00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:08,520
Speaker 1: money and promote Yeah, Like was a very dedicated friends,

862
00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:12,360
Speaker 1: professional and personally, and you can if you read the article,

863
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:15,360
Speaker 1: which I recommend. It's clearly a was a painful article

864
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:17,759
Speaker 1: for him to write um, and he went through a

865
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:19,799
Speaker 1: lot of long arguments with Jordan, first trying to turn

866
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:22,959
Speaker 1: him away from what she'd considered an increasingly frightening path.

867
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:26,319
Speaker 1: You don't understand. I am willing to lose everything, my home,

868
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:28,920
Speaker 1: my job, et cetera, because I believe in this. And

869
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:31,279
Speaker 1: then he said, with the intensity he's now famous for.

870
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:35,840
Speaker 1: Bernie Tammy had a dream, and sometimes her dreams are prophetic.

871
00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:39,759
Speaker 1: She dreamed that it was five minutes to midnight. That

872
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:42,400
Speaker 1: was our last conversation. He was playing out the ideas

873
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:44,520
Speaker 1: that appeared in his first book, The Social Order Is

874
00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:46,680
Speaker 1: Coming Apart, where on the edge of chaos, he is

875
00:48:46,719 --> 00:48:49,279
Speaker 1: the prophet and the would be martyr Jordan would be

876
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:54,440
Speaker 1: our savior. I think he believes that. I am so

877
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:57,520
Speaker 1: happy we finally got here. I've been hold I've been

878
00:48:57,560 --> 00:49:00,520
Speaker 1: holding on this for so long, and all right, let

879
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 1: it loose. Man. It's just beautiful. It's my favorite thing

880
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:06,239
Speaker 1: about him. It's my favorite fact that nobody seems to know.

881
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:08,840
Speaker 1: This is like something that like when you explain, like

882
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:10,799
Speaker 1: when you describe this to them, They're like, oh wait,

883
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:15,240
Speaker 1: why does anybody take this man seriously? Um? He wanted

884
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:18,800
Speaker 1: to buy a church to give weekly sermons to people,

885
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:22,400
Speaker 1: and believes that his wife has prophetic dreams about the

886
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:24,120
Speaker 1: end of the world and that he is the man

887
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:27,040
Speaker 1: that is going to save the world. He thinks that

888
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:29,560
Speaker 1: there are allusions to it in maps of meaning where

889
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:32,560
Speaker 1: he's the guy who's gonna like save the world. But

890
00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:35,160
Speaker 1: he literally said that he thinks that he is that

891
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:38,640
Speaker 1: because his wife has prophetic dreams. It's why, aw, I'm

892
00:49:38,719 --> 00:49:41,200
Speaker 1: so happy we finally got here. It all makes sense

893
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 1: once you like once like what that little bit makes sense,

894
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:47,799
Speaker 1: It's all all. Yeah. He sees himself as I don't know,

895
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:52,160
Speaker 1: some sort of almost supernatural leader who's maybe like like

896
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:57,480
Speaker 1: like on a on a on a subconscious like epocaal level,

897
00:49:57,560 --> 00:50:00,520
Speaker 1: welded to a people. I don't know, you might call

898
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:04,640
Speaker 1: it like a leader principle that like whatever it represents

899
00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:06,799
Speaker 1: like the like the like spirit of a nation, sort

900
00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:09,560
Speaker 1: of like the sort of like yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,

901
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:11,680
Speaker 1: yeah yeah, Like he embodies the will of the people

902
00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:13,920
Speaker 1: in his in his in his living soul, and thus

903
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:16,560
Speaker 1: anything he thinks has to be the correct way for

904
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:20,320
Speaker 1: things to go because he's speaking through the supernatural like

905
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:28,680
Speaker 1: like reality of speaking deep universal truths. Yes, oh God, alright,

906
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:31,480
Speaker 1: like oh I have an itch in them. So I

907
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:36,200
Speaker 1: I this relief. I just feel relief now, yeah, yeah,

908
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:39,640
Speaker 1: yeah yeah. I don't know precisely what path Jordan B.

909
00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:42,120
Speaker 1: Peterson was on as two thousand nineteam dawned what he

910
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:44,680
Speaker 1: was going to do next in his career. Uh, it's

911
00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:48,319
Speaker 1: possible his ambitions wouldn't have gone much beyond motivational talks

912
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:50,680
Speaker 1: and self help books. But Professor Shift does not seem

913
00:50:50,719 --> 00:50:52,239
Speaker 1: to think this was the case. That's why he wrote

914
00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:54,960
Speaker 1: this article quote what I am seeing now is a darker,

915
00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:57,920
Speaker 1: angrier Jordan than the man I knew. And Karen Heller's

916
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:00,080
Speaker 1: recent profile in the Washington Post, he is can it

917
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:03,000
Speaker 1: about his long history of depression. Depression is an awful illness.

918
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:05,600
Speaker 1: It is a cognitive disorder that casts a dark shadow

919
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:08,360
Speaker 1: over everything. His view of life as nasty and brutish

920
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:11,120
Speaker 1: may very well not be an idea but a description

921
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:13,799
Speaker 1: of his experience, which became for him the truth. But

922
00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:17,239
Speaker 1: this next statement from Heller's article is heartbreaking. You have

923
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:20,120
Speaker 1: an evil heart like the person next to you. She

924
00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:22,839
Speaker 1: quotes him as telling a soul out crowd. Kids are

925
00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:28,880
Speaker 1: not innately good, and neither are you. You. Yeah man,

926
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:34,400
Speaker 1: that is yeah, yeah, Like it is very bleak. And

927
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:36,279
Speaker 1: it's one of those things that like if you don't

928
00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:38,480
Speaker 1: think too much about it, you might not analyze it

929
00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:41,520
Speaker 1: because like it's one thing to say kids aren't inherently good,

930
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:44,120
Speaker 1: because nothing is that. No one's inherently good. But people

931
00:51:44,160 --> 00:51:48,279
Speaker 1: aren't inherently evil either. They're inherently self oriented and that

932
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:51,280
Speaker 1: takes some like personal growth to escape to the degree

933
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:54,640
Speaker 1: that's necessary to participate in the functional society. Sure, but

934
00:51:54,719 --> 00:51:59,960
Speaker 1: not evil, Like that's real, intense, that's real. Um yeah,

935
00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:02,040
Speaker 1: I mean it shows that he's kind of selling something.

936
00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:05,799
Speaker 1: Um yeah, it sure does. Now we may never know

937
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:08,719
Speaker 1: the next act Jordan B. Peterson had planned because his

938
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 1: own life seems to have encountered this disruption. Since then, chaos,

939
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:20,640
Speaker 1: you might say, has chaos in the form of his

940
00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:29,680
Speaker 1: daughter Michaela. So the first sign that something was off

941
00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:32,439
Speaker 1: was probably went on he went on Joe Rogan Show

942
00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:35,000
Speaker 1: to let everyone know that he had embraced his daughter,

943
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:39,719
Speaker 1: Michaela's all meat diet. Michaela suffered from rhematoid arthritis, and

944
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:41,000
Speaker 1: it was severe enough that she had to have a

945
00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:43,799
Speaker 1: right hip and ankle replaced at age seventeen. And then

946
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:47,040
Speaker 1: she started like so, in order to combat that and

947
00:52:47,080 --> 00:52:50,880
Speaker 1: her fatigue and her cistic acne, like, she started taking

948
00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:53,560
Speaker 1: cutting all of her all of everything but meat out

949
00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:56,200
Speaker 1: of her diet. Eventually, like when she after some experimentation,

950
00:52:56,200 --> 00:52:58,719
Speaker 1: wound up figuring out that like all of her problems

951
00:52:58,960 --> 00:53:02,319
Speaker 1: were solved by eating nothing but meat and salt and

952
00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:05,759
Speaker 1: sparkling water. And so she began promoting that as a

953
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:10,200
Speaker 1: healthcare for everybody and selling one on one consultations, much

954
00:53:10,239 --> 00:53:11,799
Speaker 1: like her dad had done for people who were having

955
00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:14,560
Speaker 1: trouble with her all meat diet. Uh. And then Jordan

956
00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:16,839
Speaker 1: Peterson goes on Joe Rogan and he's like, I've been

957
00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:19,480
Speaker 1: doing this and quote, I lost fifty pounds. My appetite

958
00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:23,240
Speaker 1: has probably fallen by I don't get blood sugar disregulation problems.

959
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:25,840
Speaker 1: I need way less sleep. He claimed that his depression

960
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:28,000
Speaker 1: and anxiety were gone, that his mind was sharp, and

961
00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:32,040
Speaker 1: my gum disease is gone. Like, what the hell? Yeah,

962
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:37,000
Speaker 1: I agree, Jordan, what the hell. He also told everybody

963
00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:38,960
Speaker 1: that one time he had a cider and it made

964
00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:41,120
Speaker 1: him not sleep for like two months, and then when

965
00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:43,400
Speaker 1: people pointed out that it was impossible to do that,

966
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:44,960
Speaker 1: he was like, well, I guess you know, obviously I

967
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:46,799
Speaker 1: slept at points, but like it wasn't well and like

968
00:53:47,360 --> 00:53:50,880
Speaker 1: like the insider isn't gonna like Jordan's yeah is it?

969
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:55,200
Speaker 1: What is it? Like an unavoidable like sense of dread.

970
00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:58,920
Speaker 1: He described it as I think, yeah, you have severe

971
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:02,560
Speaker 1: anxiety and depression and you blamed it on a single

972
00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:06,560
Speaker 1: drink of cider and like yeah, and also like just

973
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:08,759
Speaker 1: claiming claiming, like he literally like he claimed that he

974
00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:11,040
Speaker 1: did not sleep. It wasn't like oh I had trouble

975
00:54:11,080 --> 00:54:12,600
Speaker 1: sleeping or this, And I was like, no, I did

976
00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:16,919
Speaker 1: not sleep, um, which is not what happened. No, it's

977
00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:20,160
Speaker 1: not I wasn't there, but that's not what happened. It's

978
00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:23,560
Speaker 1: definitely not what happened. Because you die, because you would

979
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:27,120
Speaker 1: have done you did, you'd be a deader. You'd be

980
00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:30,120
Speaker 1: a Herman Kane type Kane type, and MICHAELA would be

981
00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:32,719
Speaker 1: tweeting from your account about how you should only me

982
00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:39,520
Speaker 1: it's great, drink cider, drink cider. So yeah. Peterson's health

983
00:54:39,560 --> 00:54:42,919
Speaker 1: problems first surfaced in two nineteen, and this is when

984
00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:45,200
Speaker 1: his family announced that he had gone to rehab an

985
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:48,759
Speaker 1: upstate New York. MICHAELA claimed that he had been prescribed

986
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:52,000
Speaker 1: clone as a pam um, which is a benzo, in

987
00:54:52,160 --> 00:54:55,560
Speaker 1: two seventeen, which was due to a severe autoimmune reaction

988
00:54:55,600 --> 00:54:57,480
Speaker 1: to food which might have been like that cider thing

989
00:54:57,480 --> 00:55:00,760
Speaker 1: I don't really know, um. And his dose was increased

990
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:03,239
Speaker 1: after his wife was diagnosed with very severe kidney cancer

991
00:55:03,239 --> 00:55:05,640
Speaker 1: in April of two nineteen. And obviously that's an incredibly

992
00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:07,120
Speaker 1: stressful thing to do. And if your guy, who was

993
00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:10,560
Speaker 1: already prone to anxiety and depression, your beloved wife getting

994
00:55:10,719 --> 00:55:13,160
Speaker 1: diagnosed with a very serious cancer is going to funk

995
00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:15,680
Speaker 1: you up. It's kind of like ruin you for a while.

996
00:55:16,080 --> 00:55:19,319
Speaker 1: Like obviously, like any person would be in the same thing,

997
00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:22,799
Speaker 1: but UM. And so Jordan went on medication for it

998
00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:24,800
Speaker 1: UM and it became a problem for him, and he

999
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:26,719
Speaker 1: wound up having withdrawal symptoms. And he will claim that

1000
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:28,680
Speaker 1: he was only ever sort of like chemically addicted to

1001
00:55:28,719 --> 00:55:31,080
Speaker 1: it because he didn't really understand what it would do

1002
00:55:31,120 --> 00:55:35,360
Speaker 1: to him UM, and he went to rehab. It didn't work, obviously,

1003
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:38,360
Speaker 1: like this, uh this as as kind of In a

1004
00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:41,200
Speaker 1: video that she later published, MICHAELA and Jordan noted how

1005
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:44,680
Speaker 1: like bad that being you know, diagnosed as having a

1006
00:55:44,719 --> 00:55:48,040
Speaker 1: drug addiction would be for her dad's brand, Um, because

1007
00:55:48,160 --> 00:55:50,000
Speaker 1: you know he talks about how you've got to like

1008
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:54,120
Speaker 1: that that's a weakness that you can rid from yourself. Um,

1009
00:55:54,160 --> 00:55:59,080
Speaker 1: but yeah, kind of messed up that that happened. But

1010
00:55:59,120 --> 00:56:02,279
Speaker 1: also sometimes like like it's okay to appear I get

1011
00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:06,960
Speaker 1: quote but weak and like if you struggle, like yeah,

1012
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:09,200
Speaker 1: if you're not a person who I advocates the things

1013
00:56:09,239 --> 00:56:11,799
Speaker 1: that Jordan Peterson advocates, then you could be like oh yeah,

1014
00:56:11,840 --> 00:56:14,239
Speaker 1: I mean, dude, like your fucking wife got cancer, of course,

1015
00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:16,080
Speaker 1: like the like some ship, like that's the most normal

1016
00:56:16,120 --> 00:56:17,640
Speaker 1: thing in the world that like you developed a problem,

1017
00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:19,759
Speaker 1: Like of course, no shame, dude, Like deal with your

1018
00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:22,239
Speaker 1: like like we're supportive of you, we care about you.

1019
00:56:22,520 --> 00:56:26,399
Speaker 1: Obviously this is a hard time. But that's not Yeah,

1020
00:56:26,560 --> 00:56:28,080
Speaker 1: that's not what It's not what he subscribes to. It's

1021
00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:32,040
Speaker 1: not what he uh tells people that they need to

1022
00:56:32,080 --> 00:56:36,359
Speaker 1: do otherwise they're failing or whatever exactly. Um, I mean

1023
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:39,000
Speaker 1: the same thing with his his rule about don't ever

1024
00:56:39,080 --> 00:56:42,880
Speaker 1: let your child do something that uh displeases you or whatever.

1025
00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:47,080
Speaker 1: And like Michael's like dating like a like literally a

1026
00:56:47,120 --> 00:56:51,680
Speaker 1: pickup artist. She's dating pickups to believe that he is

1027
00:56:51,719 --> 00:56:55,279
Speaker 1: inhabited by a demon named Igor. Yep, we'll talk about

1028
00:56:55,400 --> 00:56:59,319
Speaker 1: Michaela's relationship and justice spell. Oh thank goodness, Okay, I apologize.

1029
00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:04,200
Speaker 1: So a lot of bad things continued to happen to

1030
00:57:04,239 --> 00:57:07,520
Speaker 1: Peterson by August or September like two, that's nineteen. He

1031
00:57:07,560 --> 00:57:09,920
Speaker 1: wasn't bad enough shape that his family was like more

1032
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:12,960
Speaker 1: worried about him than his wife who was dying of cancer. Um,

1033
00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:15,080
Speaker 1: he tried to quit cold turkey a couple of times

1034
00:57:15,080 --> 00:57:16,640
Speaker 1: and that had not worked. And if you tried to

1035
00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:19,560
Speaker 1: quit a drug addiction and like it doesn't work out,

1036
00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:22,439
Speaker 1: it kind of makes it harder to quit in the future. Um,

1037
00:57:22,560 --> 00:57:24,640
Speaker 1: detox is harder as a result of that and stuff.

1038
00:57:24,720 --> 00:57:28,360
Speaker 1: So he was in a really bad situation. Um, And

1039
00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:31,160
Speaker 1: like he also may have had some like very rare

1040
00:57:31,280 --> 00:57:34,480
Speaker 1: kind of reactions to clone as a PAM that like

1041
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:36,880
Speaker 1: aren't common. But anyway, he was he was like all

1042
00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:39,080
Speaker 1: fucked up and he was also couldn't get off of

1043
00:57:39,080 --> 00:57:43,080
Speaker 1: this medicine UM, and MICHAELA developed, who for some reason,

1044
00:57:43,160 --> 00:57:45,080
Speaker 1: was in charge of his health care at this point,

1045
00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:50,040
Speaker 1: even though she's a not competent to really do much

1046
00:57:50,040 --> 00:57:52,680
Speaker 1: of anything person, I would argue based on her advocation

1047
00:57:52,680 --> 00:57:55,320
Speaker 1: of eating nothing but meat and salt. UM, she wound

1048
00:57:55,360 --> 00:57:58,960
Speaker 1: up in charge, and she decided that they needed a

1049
00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:02,200
Speaker 1: a medical treatment or a medical specialists who had the

1050
00:58:02,200 --> 00:58:04,720
Speaker 1: guts to detox and cold turkey uh in a place

1051
00:58:04,760 --> 00:58:08,120
Speaker 1: where doctors quote aren't influenced by the pharmaceutical companies. So

1052
00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:12,320
Speaker 1: she traveled to Russia where they did a very unrecommended

1053
00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:16,880
Speaker 1: process where they basically gave him a medical induced coma

1054
00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:20,040
Speaker 1: in order to quit him cold turkey UM, which is

1055
00:58:20,080 --> 00:58:22,840
Speaker 1: not a good idea. UM. He need to be in

1056
00:58:22,920 --> 00:58:24,920
Speaker 1: a breathing machine. He got pneumonia. It was just like

1057
00:58:24,960 --> 00:58:28,960
Speaker 1: this horribly traumatic physical process that probably did permanent damage

1058
00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:32,600
Speaker 1: to his brain. UM. Because it's bad for you. It's

1059
00:58:32,640 --> 00:58:34,680
Speaker 1: bad to do that. Yeah. It seems like like people

1060
00:58:35,040 --> 00:58:37,840
Speaker 1: try to avoid being in commas um and doing that

1061
00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:45,240
Speaker 1: kind of thing generally. UM. But you know, good luck. Yeah,

1062
00:58:45,280 --> 00:58:49,280
Speaker 1: it doesn't seem to have been great. UM. And Yeah,

1063
00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:53,160
Speaker 1: obviously MICHAELA has like blamed all of this on Western medicine,

1064
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:56,960
Speaker 1: blames the pneumonia on a North American hospital. Um and

1065
00:58:57,000 --> 00:59:00,400
Speaker 1: it's uh, yeah, I thought West was best. That's yet,

1066
00:59:00,680 --> 00:59:03,280
Speaker 1: in the words of the New Republic, Michaela is essentially

1067
00:59:03,320 --> 00:59:05,880
Speaker 1: weaving her own hero's journey and were father's ordeal when

1068
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:07,640
Speaker 1: in which she brought him to a far funk flunk

1069
00:59:07,640 --> 00:59:10,080
Speaker 1: clinic that had the guts to do what Western doctors wouldn't.

1070
00:59:10,240 --> 00:59:12,160
Speaker 1: It's a tale that burnishes her brand as a wellness

1071
00:59:12,200 --> 00:59:15,240
Speaker 1: influencer and shoves aside awkward questions about whether the treatment

1072
00:59:15,280 --> 00:59:18,360
Speaker 1: harmed Peterson. Uh. And shortly after that article came out,

1073
00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:21,080
Speaker 1: the news broke that she'd taken them both to Serbia

1074
00:59:21,400 --> 00:59:24,960
Speaker 1: to go to clubs during the COVID shutdown with her husband,

1075
00:59:25,360 --> 00:59:27,720
Speaker 1: um and had given her dad COVID nineteen and he

1076
00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:31,920
Speaker 1: had gotten very sick. Uh And he's probably alive still,

1077
00:59:32,440 --> 00:59:35,240
Speaker 1: But the pictures that he's been in recently don't look good.

1078
00:59:36,200 --> 00:59:39,040
Speaker 1: He's not well, he's not well, he's not looking great. Um.

1079
00:59:39,080 --> 00:59:41,320
Speaker 1: It does seem to still be alive. He does seem

1080
00:59:41,360 --> 00:59:43,560
Speaker 1: to still be alive. Maybe he'll recover enough to come

1081
00:59:43,560 --> 00:59:46,280
Speaker 1: back and do his thing again. But he hasn't yet.

1082
00:59:46,520 --> 00:59:48,280
Speaker 1: He hasn't yet. I've been what, I've been sort of

1083
00:59:48,640 --> 00:59:51,480
Speaker 1: curious about it too. I've been like waiting because it's like, yeah,

1084
00:59:51,520 --> 00:59:53,919
Speaker 1: he's going through a really hard time and like all

1085
00:59:53,920 --> 00:59:57,000
Speaker 1: this stuff, uh, and part of me is like, Okay,

1086
00:59:57,000 --> 01:00:02,600
Speaker 1: so after about a year, um, he will re emerge, uh,

1087
01:00:02,640 --> 01:00:07,760
Speaker 1: and it'll be some it'll be like a spiritual awakening, reinvigoration,

1088
01:00:07,840 --> 01:00:09,800
Speaker 1: some sort of thing like I like, I always felt

1089
01:00:09,840 --> 01:00:14,760
Speaker 1: like this will be used to sort of push the

1090
01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:20,680
Speaker 1: cult stuff and like his his position, um, and people's

1091
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:24,880
Speaker 1: view of him as as this sort of uh savior. Um.

1092
01:00:25,080 --> 01:00:27,200
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's still going to happen, because

1093
01:00:27,200 --> 01:00:28,880
Speaker 1: it does seem like he just keeps getting sick and

1094
01:00:28,920 --> 01:00:32,320
Speaker 1: sick and sick for real reasons. The hard thing is like,

1095
01:00:32,440 --> 01:00:34,080
Speaker 1: is he actually going to get better or has he

1096
01:00:34,160 --> 01:00:36,200
Speaker 1: like been permanently damaged in such a way that he

1097
01:00:36,200 --> 01:00:38,120
Speaker 1: won't be able to continue doing the stuff that he

1098
01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:40,840
Speaker 1: was doing. Like I just don't think we really know. Yeah,

1099
01:00:40,920 --> 01:00:43,240
Speaker 1: there's no Yeah, I can't. I can't tell. It's it

1100
01:00:43,280 --> 01:00:44,959
Speaker 1: was always like a worry in the back of my mind,

1101
01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:47,320
Speaker 1: but now it's like I have no idea how he's

1102
01:00:47,360 --> 01:00:49,960
Speaker 1: doing or if yeah, when his daughter is going to

1103
01:00:50,040 --> 01:00:56,800
Speaker 1: try to do to him next, yep, yep something her

1104
01:00:56,960 --> 01:00:59,600
Speaker 1: pick up artist boyfriend h Yeah. I wanted to read

1105
01:00:59,600 --> 01:01:01,760
Speaker 1: a quote from her that she wrote about her and

1106
01:01:01,760 --> 01:01:06,600
Speaker 1: her pickup artist husband. Life is complicated. When Andre and

1107
01:01:06,600 --> 01:01:09,000
Speaker 1: I met, we argued about Stalin all night. I think

1108
01:01:09,000 --> 01:01:12,320
Speaker 1: he's been brainwashed. He disagrees and accuses me of the same.

1109
01:01:12,360 --> 01:01:14,120
Speaker 1: He told me he had to immigrate after the wall

1110
01:01:14,120 --> 01:01:15,960
Speaker 1: fell and his family had to start again in Canada.

1111
01:01:16,160 --> 01:01:17,720
Speaker 1: He told me he'd been shot at as a kid.

1112
01:01:17,880 --> 01:01:20,240
Speaker 1: He has black belts. He practiced his sword work. He

1113
01:01:20,320 --> 01:01:22,200
Speaker 1: scared me. He told me he had a demon inside

1114
01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:24,640
Speaker 1: him named Igor. It didn't seem like a joke. He

1115
01:01:24,680 --> 01:01:26,520
Speaker 1: didn't wasn't like anyone I had met, and I didn't

1116
01:01:26,520 --> 01:01:28,280
Speaker 1: know what to make of it. I got pregnant with

1117
01:01:28,320 --> 01:01:30,720
Speaker 1: Scarlett after eight months of dating the strange Russian man.

1118
01:01:30,800 --> 01:01:33,040
Speaker 1: It was terrifying. We decided to have her. I couldn't

1119
01:01:33,040 --> 01:01:35,560
Speaker 1: bear any other thought, and we got married despite intense

1120
01:01:35,560 --> 01:01:37,880
Speaker 1: pressure from his family. They think I'm a cult leader.

1121
01:01:38,120 --> 01:01:41,160
Speaker 1: Smiley faced with a halo. Were separated about a year

1122
01:01:41,160 --> 01:01:44,000
Speaker 1: after Scarlett was born. It was awful. It was me really,

1123
01:01:44,080 --> 01:01:46,200
Speaker 1: I ran And of course she's back together with him

1124
01:01:46,240 --> 01:01:51,680
Speaker 1: now and they gave their dad or her dad. Yeah, yeah,

1125
01:01:51,680 --> 01:01:55,840
Speaker 1: that's great, that's just all. It's just a wild place.

1126
01:01:56,320 --> 01:01:59,680
Speaker 1: Um yeah, wild times. For the Peterson's uh you can

1127
01:01:59,720 --> 01:02:02,400
Speaker 1: find on YouTube. You can find him in a lecture

1128
01:02:02,400 --> 01:02:06,120
Speaker 1: talking about how pickup artists are psychopaths. Yeah, if you

1129
01:02:06,120 --> 01:02:10,320
Speaker 1: wanted to do that out. But his brain might not

1130
01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:13,320
Speaker 1: be functional anymore because of all of the horrible damage

1131
01:02:13,360 --> 01:02:16,480
Speaker 1: his daughter did. Do it because he couldn't bear the

1132
01:02:16,480 --> 01:02:19,240
Speaker 1: thought of just like going through the kind of detox

1133
01:02:19,320 --> 01:02:22,960
Speaker 1: treatment that that other people do, Like it's Jordan Peterson,

1134
01:02:23,040 --> 01:02:24,800
Speaker 1: so he had to go through some like weird Russian

1135
01:02:24,840 --> 01:02:27,040
Speaker 1: thing Like you couldn't. You couldn't just like go to

1136
01:02:27,080 --> 01:02:28,360
Speaker 1: a thing and be like, yeah, I have a problem,

1137
01:02:28,440 --> 01:02:29,880
Speaker 1: like and I can't deal with it on my own.

1138
01:02:30,120 --> 01:02:33,720
Speaker 1: I need other people's help, Like no, I need right.

1139
01:02:33,720 --> 01:02:35,840
Speaker 1: It's a weird it's like a weird like conflict too,

1140
01:02:35,880 --> 01:02:37,840
Speaker 1: because like there's parts like I I don't want I

1141
01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:40,520
Speaker 1: don't want to go uh the Western Way, and like

1142
01:02:40,520 --> 01:02:41,880
Speaker 1: I don't want to go and say I need help?

1143
01:02:41,920 --> 01:02:44,479
Speaker 1: Could you help me? How do I like, uh fight

1144
01:02:44,560 --> 01:02:49,400
Speaker 1: this Um, he's going like the self and news Cooma

1145
01:02:49,480 --> 01:02:55,800
Speaker 1: in a way is like I'm doing it myself, but

1146
01:02:55,800 --> 01:02:59,560
Speaker 1: but like it's not. It's like you're you're not doing

1147
01:02:59,560 --> 01:03:01,600
Speaker 1: it yourself. You're not you're not standing up straight, you're

1148
01:03:01,600 --> 01:03:03,320
Speaker 1: not keeping you're not doing the poster thing, you're not

1149
01:03:03,320 --> 01:03:05,280
Speaker 1: cleaning your own room, You're letting other people do it.

1150
01:03:05,400 --> 01:03:07,680
Speaker 1: I don't know. There's a weird conflict there with his

1151
01:03:07,920 --> 01:03:13,640
Speaker 1: uh his views. That's not uh unexpected with him. I

1152
01:03:13,640 --> 01:03:16,400
Speaker 1: don't know what. I'm surprised. It's just everything does. It's

1153
01:03:16,480 --> 01:03:20,960
Speaker 1: very interesting. Yep. And in contrast with his book based

1154
01:03:21,000 --> 01:03:26,800
Speaker 1: off of him answering questions on Cora, it's good stuff.

1155
01:03:27,920 --> 01:03:34,720
Speaker 1: Well that's our episode, Cody Jordan B. Peterson is I

1156
01:03:34,720 --> 01:03:37,080
Speaker 1: don't know, hard to say where he is but not

1157
01:03:37,120 --> 01:03:40,400
Speaker 1: in a great place. But he's also not doing the

1158
01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:44,160
Speaker 1: stuff he was doing before that I don't like. So whatever,

1159
01:03:44,240 --> 01:03:48,720
Speaker 1: it's real Yeah, real mixed bag there. Um. I would say, yeah,

1160
01:03:48,880 --> 01:03:52,360
Speaker 1: I wish him well, um, generally, because I wish generally

1161
01:03:52,400 --> 01:03:57,960
Speaker 1: everybody well. Yeah, compassion. I wish that his daughter would

1162
01:03:57,960 --> 01:04:00,880
Speaker 1: not no longer have any say over his health care

1163
01:04:01,000 --> 01:04:03,880
Speaker 1: because she seems bad at it. Yeah, she's very clearly

1164
01:04:03,920 --> 01:04:09,640
Speaker 1: like damaging to him. Yeah, and not her feminine chaos

1165
01:04:09,680 --> 01:04:13,600
Speaker 1: has shared his order exactly. He gave, he gave, he

1166
01:04:13,640 --> 01:04:17,640
Speaker 1: gave her his order, and she she brought chaos to him, chaotic,

1167
01:04:17,880 --> 01:04:21,480
Speaker 1: not helpful hands that he's in right now. Um. But

1168
01:04:21,560 --> 01:04:24,200
Speaker 1: also and then yeah, it's um, he's not doing the thing.

1169
01:04:24,240 --> 01:04:26,760
Speaker 1: I hope. Part of me is like if he stops

1170
01:04:26,840 --> 01:04:30,240
Speaker 1: doing if he gets better, maybe maybe he'll stop doing

1171
01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:33,840
Speaker 1: this stuff. Yeah, after getting better, I don't know. Um,

1172
01:04:34,120 --> 01:04:37,040
Speaker 1: I do think he'll I do think like, yeah, he's

1173
01:04:37,080 --> 01:04:43,560
Speaker 1: probably gonna buy that church still yeah yeah, and he'll

1174
01:04:43,560 --> 01:04:46,800
Speaker 1: be the be the church guy. Um. I just want

1175
01:04:46,880 --> 01:04:48,720
Speaker 1: him to write a novel so we can all see

1176
01:04:48,800 --> 01:04:51,600
Speaker 1: the things that he really believes without the offsite he's

1177
01:04:51,640 --> 01:04:55,160
Speaker 1: getting language. Yeah, let's let's have him write a novel

1178
01:04:55,440 --> 01:04:59,520
Speaker 1: like every public figure should be forced to do. Yes, exactly,

1179
01:05:00,880 --> 01:05:06,000
Speaker 1: So you got anything to plug Cody? Um? Uh mapsive

1180
01:05:06,040 --> 01:05:08,800
Speaker 1: meaning um, okay, I I do. I would like to

1181
01:05:08,840 --> 01:05:12,080
Speaker 1: promote the chaos dragon, which is another word for women,

1182
01:05:12,400 --> 01:05:16,480
Speaker 1: my right fellows. Um no, um, you can find me

1183
01:05:16,480 --> 01:05:19,480
Speaker 1: on Twitter. Um, Sophi's shaking her head. But I was

1184
01:05:19,520 --> 01:05:21,240
Speaker 1: doing a Peterson bit. I should have done the voice.

1185
01:05:21,240 --> 01:05:25,280
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. Um. You can find me on Twitter, on

1186
01:05:25,480 --> 01:05:29,400
Speaker 1: Dr Mr Courdy and on the other socials. I got

1187
01:05:29,440 --> 01:05:31,760
Speaker 1: a show called some More News on YouTube and the

1188
01:05:31,920 --> 01:05:34,320
Speaker 1: podcast called even More News. I also co host with

1189
01:05:34,440 --> 01:05:37,800
Speaker 1: Robert and my other cost Katie Stole Worst You're Ever

1190
01:05:38,240 --> 01:05:43,200
Speaker 1: on my radio. And I also would like to promote

1191
01:05:43,240 --> 01:05:47,560
Speaker 1: the first episode of this Listen to the first episode

1192
01:05:47,560 --> 01:05:50,640
Speaker 1: before you listen to this one over. Now that's kind

1193
01:05:50,680 --> 01:05:54,400
Speaker 1: of an extremist point, but okay, Cody, you go off. UM,

1194
01:05:54,440 --> 01:05:58,040
Speaker 1: I think you should listen to whatever in whatever order.

1195
01:05:58,080 --> 01:06:02,240
Speaker 1: In fact, just randomly quea random audio from the entire

1196
01:06:02,400 --> 01:06:05,600
Speaker 1: human history of recording things and never know what you're

1197
01:06:05,600 --> 01:06:10,840
Speaker 1: going to listen to. That's the best way chaotic womanly energy.

1198
01:06:10,920 --> 01:06:14,280
Speaker 1: There such a visionary robber and I just don't know.

1199
01:06:14,520 --> 01:06:17,040
Speaker 1: Thank you. I hope you start some sort of like

1200
01:06:17,200 --> 01:06:21,760
Speaker 1: organization where people can follow your every word on question. Yeah,

1201
01:06:21,800 --> 01:06:23,680
Speaker 1: you know, it'll be great and we'll um, you know,

1202
01:06:23,720 --> 01:06:26,720
Speaker 1: we'll get raytheon on the phone and I do you

1203
01:06:26,840 --> 01:06:32,160
Speaker 1: have them on speed dial at this point because they call? Yeah. Yeah,

1204
01:06:32,320 --> 01:06:35,520
Speaker 1: it's it's important. I mean it's important because I don't

1205
01:06:35,520 --> 01:06:38,720
Speaker 1: know you all probably agree with this. It's not very

1206
01:06:38,720 --> 01:06:42,040
Speaker 1: controversial say, these days, every American family needs one of

1207
01:06:42,040 --> 01:06:45,400
Speaker 1: the fine Links armored personnel carriers made by Raytheon to

1208
01:06:45,600 --> 01:06:49,680
Speaker 1: enable both troops to deploy into the battlefield and enact

1209
01:06:49,680 --> 01:06:52,960
Speaker 1: a maximum of deadly force upon their enemies, and enable

1210
01:06:53,040 --> 01:06:56,120
Speaker 1: you to deploy to the Walmart and enact a maximum

1211
01:06:56,280 --> 01:06:59,800
Speaker 1: amount of deadly force upon your enemies. Raytheon enables all

1212
01:06:59,800 --> 01:07:05,120
Speaker 1: of that with its wonderful products and their savings. What

1213
01:07:05,240 --> 01:07:08,880
Speaker 1: a savings. Yes, go to raytheon dot com slash bTB

1214
01:07:09,080 --> 01:07:13,320
Speaker 1: and enter promo code. I don't care very much about

1215
01:07:13,400 --> 01:07:19,120
Speaker 1: international arms embargoes, and you'll get off your next Links

1216
01:07:19,200 --> 01:07:23,960
Speaker 1: armored personnel vehicle or your next Hellfire missile guidance system.

1217
01:07:24,040 --> 01:07:30,120
Speaker 1: That means they're affordable. Now ridiculous, really makes it really

1218
01:07:30,560 --> 01:07:34,959
Speaker 1: really gonna really gonna make as is the episode over,

1219
01:07:35,120 --> 01:07:41,200
Speaker 1: I'm very tired. Great job, guys, You guys are amazing