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Speaker 1: You are a mysterious woman, elusive, and you're also she's

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Speaker 1: she any not me, not on my mate? Yo, yo yo,

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Speaker 1: what is your child mother? Yo's going down the stoor

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Speaker 1: like Welcome to Like a Virgin, the show where we

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Speaker 1: give yesterday's pop culture, today's takes, I'm ros Damo and

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Speaker 1: I'm Fran Toronto and versions. If you haven't yet, you

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Speaker 1: need to take out your little smartphone right now, right now,

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Speaker 1: pull up your you know, web browser of choice and

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Speaker 1: go to Paige Treon dot com slash Like a Virgin

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Speaker 1: to become a patron a found to become a founding

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Speaker 1: patron and get weakly exclusive bonus episodes. And then when

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Speaker 1: you're done, if you're feeling if you're feeling um like

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Speaker 1: in a shopping mood, go over to Like a Virgin

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Speaker 1: for twenty sixty nine dot com period to buy our

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Speaker 1: merch Buying that youre l was one of the most

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Speaker 1: gratifying moments of my career. Honestly, um we it must

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Speaker 1: also be said, you know, I'm realizing now patron not

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Speaker 1: a very gender friendly word. Maybe maybe y'all are matrons.

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Speaker 1: Maybe maybe there's an option to be a patron and

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Speaker 1: an option to be. I mean, we can't actually do that,

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Speaker 1: but like just like just because it's we're gonna start,

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Speaker 1: We're gonna start a competing service called Matron. Yeah, Matreon, yeah,

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Speaker 1: zam Matreon z Oh god, you know what thing is?

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Speaker 1: I'm sure that exists. Yeah, and it's just like extremely

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Speaker 1: flop tina. Yeah, they only sell like fluid fluid beauty products. Oh,

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Speaker 1: flow fluid beauty. Can't wait to see what they cook

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Speaker 1: up from Pride this year? This year? Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: how are you feeling about Pride? All things considered? Are

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Speaker 1: you getting any inquiries yet? Are you? Are? You know?

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Speaker 1: And let me tell you my DMS and my email

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Speaker 1: are open for any and all opportunities. Yes, I'm very

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Speaker 1: very bookable. I'm very submissive and bookable. Maybe that'll be

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Speaker 1: a hot um Yeah, no it should be. I mean, honestly, virgins,

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Speaker 1: if you want a crowdsource and and give us feedback

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Speaker 1: on the merch like an item you want, we're already

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Speaker 1: seeing some cool suggestions. And also, if you're a Patreon subscriber,

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Speaker 1: you are welcome to tell us what you want to

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Speaker 1: hear from our Patreon. You cannot tell us what you

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Speaker 1: want to hear if you don't subscribe. Once you get on,

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Speaker 1: you get absolutely no. Once you get on, you can

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Speaker 1: tell us what's missing. Um, yeah, that's that's something we're

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Speaker 1: going to figure out. Um. Down the road is like,

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Speaker 1: you know, a lot of Patreon people are like on

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Speaker 1: Discord or whatever, and like we're just we're just not

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Speaker 1: going to do that. But we we we talked to

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Speaker 1: the people at Patreon. They were like, um, are you

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Speaker 1: interested in you know, Discord, And we were like, no,

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Speaker 1: heart emoji, yeah, I'm good, love and enjoy. Um. We

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Speaker 1: do want to engage with you, though, and we want

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Speaker 1: to find a way to do that in a cool

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Speaker 1: social chatty way. And so you know, we're developing that

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Speaker 1: as we go. But Discord, it's gonna be a no

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Speaker 1: from me, dog, It's gonna be a no no no

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Speaker 1: no no no no no no no wait. How does

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Speaker 1: jesse j do it? No no no no no no

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Speaker 1: no no no no. I can't I can't do it.

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Speaker 1: No one can do it. But um, we also have

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Speaker 1: to acknowledge what you heard just before we started talking

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Speaker 1: was a brand new theme song, which was is song

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Speaker 1: of the Summer, iconic. It absolutely song of the Summer.

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Speaker 1: We have already submitted it to the Grammys, to the

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Speaker 1: Recording Academy, and um, it's gonna win rock the vote.

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Speaker 1: Life Marks did say we're going to EGA and that

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Speaker 1: will be the gum. Well she said we were going

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Speaker 1: to win an Oscar and I said, oh, right, right right,

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Speaker 1: you're all that you will, but that's because you're about

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Speaker 1: those stretch goals, you know. Yes. And also Katie from

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Speaker 1: Muna said that she would absolutely read the romance novel

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Speaker 1: you know of the cover of our new show art

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Speaker 1: and I told her she should also write a song

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Speaker 1: for the adaptation of the like a Virgin romance novel.

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Speaker 1: My jaws dropped because like all of the ideas were

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Speaker 1: just flowing through my head. First of all, we just

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Speaker 1: need a virgin to write that fan fiction. So like,

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Speaker 1: if you want to take this, I mean you have

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Speaker 1: I you of my concept and the virgins are clearly

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Speaker 1: interested in this concept because I'll okay, we'll give you

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Speaker 1: a little tease on something that you hear on Patreon.

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Speaker 1: We had a question about um fran and I's possibly

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Speaker 1: overlapping ven diagram sexual history right, and um, we won't

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Speaker 1: be spilling any details there. Those are Paywald but if

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Speaker 1: you want to hear if fran and I are you know,

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Speaker 1: sister wives or just wives? Yea you Patreon dot com

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Speaker 1: slash like a virgin. Yes, but if you want a

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Speaker 1: ghost write this novella, we're here for it, Katie. If

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Speaker 1: you want to write an original song for the like

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Speaker 1: a virgin pulp fiction lesbian romance, we I mean, that's

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Speaker 1: right up your alley. That's truly like, that is muna,

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Speaker 1: that is something. Can you imagine us? Can you imagine

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Speaker 1: us doing a love scene in a film? I can,

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Speaker 1: because obviously we would play ourselves. Yeah, we would play ourselves.

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Speaker 1: Although you know, according to gen Z, I don't know

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Speaker 1: if you're aware of all this gen Z like puritine discourse,

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Speaker 1: they want all sex scenes banned from film? What then? Yes,

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Speaker 1: so Z has gen Z has decided that, um, it's

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Speaker 1: a weird and grow to simulate sex in film at

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Speaker 1: all times a like period, and that there should only

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Speaker 1: be sort of you know, fade to Black PG thirteen

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Speaker 1: love scenes and no sex should take place ever. And

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Speaker 1: if you're interested in seeing that, you're a perv. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean that's stupid. Obviously, I also like very stupid.

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Speaker 1: You and I are very like we resist a lot

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Speaker 1: of gen Z bashing on this podcast sometimes because it

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Speaker 1: just like ages us so hard. So I will say,

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Speaker 1: like some of jay Z, I'm sure there are a

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Speaker 1: lot of slutty jay Z people out there, jay Z

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Speaker 1: slutty gen Z jay Z slutty gen Z folks out there,

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Speaker 1: and they're probably listening to this podcast. But like, listen, girls,

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Speaker 1: if you are a member of Generation Z and you

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Speaker 1: don't Generation Z, as British people would yes Generations said,

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Speaker 1: if you don't think that we should be having sex

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Speaker 1: scenes and films and TV shows like it's just your

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Speaker 1: light year life, your prudishness is going to have such

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Speaker 1: a rude awakening when you enter the world because like,

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Speaker 1: we're all out here fucking and doing drugs like that's

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Speaker 1: we are all fucking and sucking, fucking sing and except

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Speaker 1: very sexual people and people that tend to have prudish

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Speaker 1: ideas about sex are usually people that aren't having a

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Speaker 1: ton of search. I'm not gonna joy And I feel

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Speaker 1: like I, as someone who was extremely prudish when I

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Speaker 1: was young, definitely had a bit of a culture shock

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Speaker 1: when I, you know, entered gay World and then later

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Speaker 1: on trans World and I'm like, oh, like, there's no

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Speaker 1: room for being a prude here, Like you don't have

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Speaker 1: to be a big old, come guzzling slut. Yes, And

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Speaker 1: I just want to say to me, it does not

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Speaker 1: there does not seem to be a huge leap and

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Speaker 1: ideology from there should be no sex scenes in movies too,

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Speaker 1: there should be no drag queen story hours. Like just

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Speaker 1: kind of think about which side of history you're trying

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Speaker 1: to be on me very very flattening. It's very very unfun.

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Speaker 1: It's just an unfun take, Isn't it crazy? How timely

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Speaker 1: this week's episode of Drag Race ended up being with

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Speaker 1: the drag loose of it all, like coming amidst you

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Speaker 1: know what felt, especially in the past like week or two,

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Speaker 1: the boiling point of all the conversations around drag and

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Speaker 1: you know, like legislation to criminalize it. I was shook.

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Speaker 1: I mean obviously, like we've been screaming about trans health

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Speaker 1: care for kids like for years and obviously this like

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Speaker 1: mainstream of attack on drag has been happening for a while.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, it was like kind of crazy because the

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Speaker 1: boiling point where you know, Melissa McCarthy and all these

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Speaker 1: like you know, Padre Pascal. All these celebrities are posting

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Speaker 1: on it, like a few Sundays ago happening right in

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Speaker 1: tandem with this, like you know, PSA on drag Race

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Speaker 1: that they filmed what a year ago, year and a

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Speaker 1: half ago, Like that's I was. I was shook, but

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Speaker 1: I guess it's kind of also sad that message is

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Speaker 1: just always relevant, it is. I thought it was a

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Speaker 1: very good rusical. Yeah, I mean I usually love the rusicals,

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Speaker 1: and this was a standout. I don't necessarily think it

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Speaker 1: was a standout in terms of how it was performed,

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Speaker 1: but the actual songs themselves. I mean it was no

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Speaker 1: all stars to iconic Queens through History moment, but it

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Speaker 1: was you know up there. Yeah, I felt the same.

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Speaker 1: I definitely like there were some boring there were some

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Speaker 1: people that were like boring, but like I thought everyone

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Speaker 1: was great, Like I didn't think anybody was bad, And

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Speaker 1: I also felt, to be totally honest, like Selena Stitis

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Speaker 1: was amazing and added great, was like so good on

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Speaker 1: choreo and was really emotive in the rusical specifically, which

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Speaker 1: is why I'm like, where does the runway matter? Like

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Speaker 1: if it's like a bit of a wash on the rusical,

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Speaker 1: like let's incorporate Runway into this critique and it feel

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Speaker 1: like they're just like playing the producer game or whatever.

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Speaker 1: But did you see that video of Selena as Titti's

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Speaker 1: dragging Ross Matthews. I did, She's not wrong? Who who?

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Speaker 1: I think that a lot when I'm looking at you know,

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Speaker 1: Carson Cressley and Ross Matthews, like literally, who are they

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Speaker 1: to be talking about what people wear? And and I

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Speaker 1: say this as like, I really love Selena as Titties.

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Speaker 1: I thought I was so im I was rooting for

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Speaker 1: in the beginning, so happy with what she contributed to

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Speaker 1: the season. I really wish she was wearing something else

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Speaker 1: when she said that PSA because she like I was like,

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Speaker 1: it's like you can't shout about fashion and like wear

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Speaker 1: this like busted channel knockoff that like doesn't fit you properly. Um,

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Speaker 1: but I I love And my favorite genre of content

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Speaker 1: is a queen, you know, slandering the show against their

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Speaker 1: nondisparagement agreements, like I'm thinking about have you seen that

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Speaker 1: video of Gia Gunn where she's like completely naked in

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Speaker 1: a gay bar and go, yeah, fucking miss RuPaul. Have

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Speaker 1: you seen that. Um, yes, so it's so good. Um

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Speaker 1: you were not happy with the Kate Bush lip sync though,

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Speaker 1: I mean I wasn't either. I think Kate Bush should

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Speaker 1: storm into the studio and demand both of their heads

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Speaker 1: on a platter. Yeah, and then take a shit on

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Speaker 1: their into their skulls and set them on fire. If

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Speaker 1: you're got to give us Park and Bark, you gotta

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Speaker 1: give us emotion. You gotta give us like, uh, just

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Speaker 1: the thing that they constantly seemed to be forgetting, especially

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Speaker 1: Lucy Leduca, who you know I hate. Who I know

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Speaker 1: that you hate is that they're doing drag like you're

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Speaker 1: doing drag drag, Like, be a drag queen. Don't just

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Speaker 1: like your lip sync in your bedroom like I was

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Speaker 1: getting bedroom lip sync, Like, make a choice and make

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Speaker 1: it extreme. It's like the same thing with Lucy and

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Speaker 1: her fucking non existent Beyonce baby bump. I should be

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Speaker 1: able to see that baby bump from space. Yes, back,

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Speaker 1: you are a drag queen. I should be able to

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Speaker 1: see your Kate Bush lip sync from the back of

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Speaker 1: the club. Yeah. Agree. I mean it's hard, it's hard

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Speaker 1: to like, it's hard to root for Lucy when she's

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Speaker 1: like so like I'm the best time to shit, I

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Speaker 1: should be winning all these challenges and she's so not

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Speaker 1: like she is mediocre, like she Luck's new arms track,

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Speaker 1: Lucks the woman that you are. I this week she

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Speaker 1: made me follow her on Twitter. H it was fucking honestly,

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Speaker 1: she is she a good Twitter follow have you have

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Speaker 1: you seen? I don't know, I haven't looked might but

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Speaker 1: I did follow. I did follow her. Um, she made

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Speaker 1: me watch on talked. I haven't done that all this season. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know what. It was kind of disappointing. It wasn't

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Speaker 1: as dramatic as I was hoping it would be. But

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Speaker 1: that was an iconic runway moments when she car no

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Speaker 1: reason when she went down the line complimented every girl

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Speaker 1: and then read Lucy Luduca to filth like she she

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Speaker 1: it's very law roach going. You ain't that? Oh God,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, here's here's my honest thoughts on Lucy.

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Speaker 1: I I have a lot of empathy for the try

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Speaker 1: hard girls, right like she's getting a jan at it

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Speaker 1: and I have I personally identify with with the jan

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Speaker 1: at it and yeah, because you're because you're a little

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Speaker 1: bit of a jam. I love to try hard. It

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Speaker 1: is a terrible downfall of mine. It makes me look

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Speaker 1: like a loser a lot of the time. But like,

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Speaker 1: why would we punish people for trying really hard? Lucy, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's because it is fun and lux knows that. Um.

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Speaker 1: But like Lucy, like in the the room, Phoebe coming

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Speaker 1: in the chat, you'd like to try hard? Accept an

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Speaker 1: acting class? Oh my god, shut the I was there

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Speaker 1: to observe. How dare you, Phoebe? Um. I have to say, Lucy,

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Speaker 1: like I was breaking my heart because like if I

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Speaker 1: was on drag race and these two girls are ganging

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Speaker 1: up on me because like look looks and what's her face?

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Speaker 1: We're ganging up on her very adamantly, and I, you know,

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Speaker 1: it did definitely. I was like, this isn't shade anymore.

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Speaker 1: This is very personal. So if that happened to me, Rose,

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Speaker 1: you know what would happen. I would bug out, Like

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Speaker 1: I would bug out because I'd be like, people don't

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Speaker 1: really been there. Yeah, exactly, I would bug out, would

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Speaker 1: be like people don't like me and I need to

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Speaker 1: freak out. But but on the flip side of this,

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Speaker 1: you can kind of smell when the other girls don't

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Speaker 1: like a certain girl, right, it doesn't matter how good

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Speaker 1: you are. How the other girls treat you in the

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Speaker 1: room gives us information for what kind of report you

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Speaker 1: were building with them while this show was being filmed.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know if there have been like solidarity

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Speaker 1: footpost for like Lucy, because I imagine she's getting tons

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Speaker 1: of hate, but I thought a lot, I mean not

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Speaker 1: to like deserved. Yeah, sure, I don't believe anybody deserves

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Speaker 1: hate online because you know, it's like so horrible. But

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Speaker 1: like shell work, bullying works, Lucy does have a loose

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Speaker 1: grip on reality. It reminded me a little bit of

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Speaker 1: Valentina because in her first season, but Valentina was thickening yes, yes, exactly,

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Speaker 1: um slightly well, Lucy had a lot of misses, but

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Speaker 1: like a lot of her drag, especially at the beginning,

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Speaker 1: so polished, so good, the body was right like her,

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Speaker 1: she'd classic drag and I think she looked so good.

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Speaker 1: But like if although the girls don't like you, that's

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Speaker 1: saying something to me, And like Valentina, I stand the

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Speaker 1: whole season. And then I watched what happened in the

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Speaker 1: reunion and I was like, oh, the she the other

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Speaker 1: girls do not like her? The other she was like,

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Speaker 1: just she didn't build rapport. That's like community is so important,

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Speaker 1: that's what. Rapport is so important. Shade is so important

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Speaker 1: to like understand and balance And yeah, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: You're right. Community is so important. Community is stories matter.

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Speaker 1: Stories are so important. Storytelling is so powerful. Stories. Stories

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Speaker 1: are some of the most powerful stories that exist. Oh

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Speaker 1: my god, well, Um, with that, Rose, do you have

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Speaker 1: any thoughts ahead of our season two into like our

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Speaker 1: season two premier Season two premiere, Um sorr storring Harry enough, Yes,

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Speaker 1: Harry is of all the Diva dolls. She is definitely one,

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Speaker 1: if not the og of generation. Harry is an actress,

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Speaker 1: a girl about town, an it girl thinker. Truly you can.

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Speaker 1: You can find that out on her letterbox Diva. Yes

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Speaker 1: she Oh, she is a cinophile and we are not,

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Speaker 1: and we, especially me, we are not. I don't quite

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Speaker 1: remember if she like schooled us in the cinephile region,

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Speaker 1: but I definitely knew nothing about David Lynch and so

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Speaker 1: I'm glad we got into that. We as well as

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Speaker 1: sharing a lot more about the Barbie movie than I

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Speaker 1: thought she was going to just sick, yes, as well

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Speaker 1: as her love I think what Harry does very well

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Speaker 1: is a careful but also like Waka Doo, juxtaposition of

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Speaker 1: high brow and low brow is kind of Harry's whole stick,

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Speaker 1: and she does it very well. I think probably all

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Speaker 1: of us moved to LA when we did, you know

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Speaker 1: for some kind of santasy of the Hollywood dream, which

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Speaker 1: in watching Mulholland Drive, I definitely like saw in the

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Speaker 1: fantasy and I did like I mean it was I

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Speaker 1: watched it for the first time last night. I'd never

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Speaker 1: seen it and like, I am like somewhat of a

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Speaker 1: David Lynch girl, like I do love Twin Peaks, but

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Speaker 1: it was just like a cultural blind spot for me

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Speaker 1: and I it's a weird It's a weird movie. Well,

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Speaker 1: speaking of Twin Peaks, did you know that Mulholland Drive

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Speaker 1: was originally supposed to be a television show? Yes? I

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Speaker 1: read something about that, but can you expand please? He

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Speaker 1: shot it to be in the wake of Twin Peaks's success.

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Speaker 1: This kind of like ABC souped up glamour version of

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Speaker 1: the David Lynch dark drama pretty Girl sensation, and he

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Speaker 1: screened it for the executives and they were like, no,

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Speaker 1: Tino Shade, What the fuck is there? Yeah? And so

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Speaker 1: and this is what I love. He got Canal Plus

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Speaker 1: to finance the completion of Twin Peaks, I mean Mulholland

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Speaker 1: Drive as a film, which is like the French public Access.

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Speaker 1: They fund a lot of French it's it's like a

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Speaker 1: French company. David got that, like Foreign Overseas Art House,

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Speaker 1: which in France was public Access coin to somehow complete

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Speaker 1: this black box or should I say blue box of

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Speaker 1: a pilot that he had constructed with the original intention

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Speaker 1: for it to go on and on and on. And

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Speaker 1: I think, which is so crazy to think about. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and Lynch was creating, you know, he creates, and I

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Speaker 1: think he did this with Twin Peaks. So he creates.

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Speaker 1: He sets up these narratives that he doesn't even know

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Speaker 1: where they're going. He has kind of a I guess,

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Speaker 1: a spidy sense of where it could go. He sets

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Speaker 1: up all the pieces, but like he doesn't know, like

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Speaker 1: who the killer is, he doesn't know whose dream it is,

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Speaker 1: He doesn't know. He doesn't know who killed Laura Palmer.

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Speaker 1: It's not about that. No, he didn't, and they forced

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Speaker 1: him to say who it was because that was the

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Speaker 1: demand of the TV audience. He didn't want to reveal that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that's when the show becomes unwatchable is when you

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Speaker 1: know who the killer is. I mean, I guess that.

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Speaker 1: Like it makes so much sense about Mulholland Drive because

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Speaker 1: watching it, it is so like it's like a series

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Speaker 1: of vignettes, even more than it is like a narrative film.

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Speaker 1: And I really liked you know, Okay, So I will

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Speaker 1: admit at first I was very bored watching it, and

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Speaker 1: I was and I was on my phone, and then

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Speaker 1: it really just started to draw me in and I

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Speaker 1: was so transfixed by it. And it is such an

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Speaker 1: LA movie, and I think, like that's such a like

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Speaker 1: almost boring thing to say, because like so many movies

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Speaker 1: are LA movies. But I don't know it like it

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Speaker 1: has this hypnotic thing that I think Hollywood definitely has.

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Speaker 1: Hypnotic is very I think, kind of a Lynchian thing,

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Speaker 1: like there is something that kind of like grips you

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Speaker 1: into the work and then all of a sudden you're

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Speaker 1: just like, I have no idea what I'm watching a

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Speaker 1: lot of the time, but like I'm in this world

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Speaker 1: because it's so weird and you're trying to like figure

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Speaker 1: it out. What was your experience of like first watching

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Speaker 1: this movie, I guess, or why do you think it's

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Speaker 1: maybe a little bit emblematic of like who you are

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Speaker 1: or like what are you like to make? I think

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Speaker 1: what drew me into it was the way it felt

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Speaker 1: like a dream or a dream that I've had. It

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Speaker 1: has the logic of a dream, in the pacing of

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Speaker 1: a dream. I think that the is this boring? Oh wait,

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Speaker 1: now I'm like glued to the spot and I can't

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Speaker 1: look away. I think that's part and parcel to how

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Speaker 1: David Lynch deals with time. His beats do not go

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Speaker 1: snap aty snap snap snap. You know Aaron Sorkin like

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Speaker 1: dialogue moving it. It's there's very little sense of urgency. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it takes a long time for things to happen, but

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Speaker 1: you get the sense that something is happening with how

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Speaker 1: the camera moves and you know, with Angelo Battle Lamentes

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Speaker 1: score kind of like leading you down into this dream path.

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Speaker 1: And also even the way that it's scripted, the way

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Speaker 1: he arranges words and the way conversations are had, it's

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Speaker 1: not naturalistic. It's kind of like two people in two

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Speaker 1: different dreams trying to send each other the same message

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Speaker 1: or a different message, Like that scene when they're talking

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Speaker 1: in winkies in the diner in the daytime. There's that

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Speaker 1: like score in the background that lets you know something

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Speaker 1: bad is happening, but you're in this like pretty pink

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Speaker 1: diner and the sun is shining. I loved that juxtaposition

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Speaker 1: of the sunshine and I guess evil or or darkness daytime.

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Speaker 1: And I think that is that is so Los Angeles

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Speaker 1: as knowing that some of the ugliest, grossest, most evil

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Speaker 1: things are happening in the most brightly lit possible places. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the whole movie. I feel like maybe a lot of

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Speaker 1: his work is just very like suspended ten, Like what

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Speaker 1: if suspended tension had like no payoff, you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean. You're really like on the edge of your

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Speaker 1: seat for kind of nothing a lot of the time.

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Speaker 1: And that is you know, part of the gag. But

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Speaker 1: I I mean, I I fell asleep. I will not

385
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Speaker 1: lie because this was last night and I am but

386
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Speaker 1: I but when as soon as she finds as soon

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Speaker 1: as she's like, you know, she's like Rita, your friend, Rita,

388
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:52,000
Speaker 1: you know, And and she finds out that like Rita's not.

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00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:54,880
Speaker 1: That's when I was just like, oh, I understand, kind

390
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 1: of like the people always say in Hollywood, They're like,

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Speaker 1: what's the engine of this thing? Like, what's the engine?

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Speaker 1: And I feel like a lot of the movie was

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Speaker 1: like disinterested, I guess, in the engine and more interested

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Speaker 1: in like the characters and like the dream state of

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00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 1: it all and the vibe. Yeah about the vibes. Yeah, Well,

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00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:19,320
Speaker 1: she names herself Rita after looking up at that poster

397
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Speaker 1: of Rita Hayworth and Gilda, which I also watched recently

398
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Speaker 1: for the first time, which is another movie about a

399
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Speaker 1: beautiful woman with great hair who is pretending to be

400
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:37,760
Speaker 1: somebody she's not. So Lynch is kind of put in

401
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:41,440
Speaker 1: it right in your face with the there is a woman,

402
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:45,960
Speaker 1: and she's beautiful, and she's not what she seems to be,

403
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 1: and that alone is sort of the seed of what

404
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:56,680
Speaker 1: made the femme fatale back in you know, the forties

405
00:24:56,680 --> 00:25:01,119
Speaker 1: and fifties, This idea of a woman who is tricking

406
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 1: you and she seems to be in control, but she's

407
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:12,840
Speaker 1: really in trouble. But by the rules and standards of

408
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:16,200
Speaker 1: the time, all of this is not a great thing

409
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:19,120
Speaker 1: for a woman to be and quite frequently the fem

410
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:23,480
Speaker 1: fatals were actually quite masculine, which is I think what

411
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:28,200
Speaker 1: rendered them fatal in that sense. Even if they didn't

412
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:31,439
Speaker 1: look masculine, they had these kind of like you know,

413
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 1: boyish or mannish ways of you know, talking or playing

414
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 1: people or even just maneuvering, you know, because you were

415
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 1: so used to seeing a kind of passive, pretty pleasing

416
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Speaker 1: woman at the time. Well, because what's more dangerous than

417
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 1: a woman who takes some of masculinity for herself cling cloves,

418
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,199
Speaker 1: cling close and fatal attraction or just gland close in

419
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Speaker 1: general or something like that. Well, it's it's interesting because

420
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 1: mulholland Dry takes Naomi Watts's character Betty slash Diane and

421
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Speaker 1: kind of um dissects a single woman into kind of

422
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Speaker 1: these two ideas of what a woman should be. Instead

423
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Speaker 1: of like the femme fatale, you know, like the Lauren

424
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 1: Bacall or somebody like that, with like the big shoulders

425
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 1: and kind of the raspy voice. It's like there's Diane

426
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 1: Selwyn who's like, you know, a druggy, bitter lesbian that's

427
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 1: the kind of new fem fatal and then she is um,

428
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 1: she sublimates or she is split from her she is

429
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:46,200
Speaker 1: somehow connected to Betty Elms, who's this like sweetest pie

430
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:52,560
Speaker 1: blonde little bimbo. Well, it's like the two film archetypes.

431
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 1: It's the ingenue and the fem fatal. And this movie

432
00:26:55,680 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 1: is about, I mean about movies, and we talk about

433
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 1: like how annoyed we are about like stories that are

434
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 1: about stories and movies that are about But this is

435
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:09,880
Speaker 1: like about Hollywood and the way that it like rips

436
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,880
Speaker 1: people apart. And I did like do a little like

437
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 1: reading and like watched a video essay after I watched

438
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:19,719
Speaker 1: the movie about how it's like about how it's like

439
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:25,679
Speaker 1: about the idea, like about how Rita is supposed to

440
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:29,159
Speaker 1: represent the idea of like the casting couch in Hollywood

441
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 1: and like women who trade their sexuality for success, and

442
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 1: like I mean, I'm sure this is the thing with

443
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,919
Speaker 1: David Lynch. It's like sure that is an interpretation of

444
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 1: the movie that if it makes sense to you, like Okay,

445
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,239
Speaker 1: I think there's many other interpretations of this movie. And

446
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:47,919
Speaker 1: I think there's also a version of it where you

447
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 1: watch it and you don't interpret it and you just

448
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:55,719
Speaker 1: take this beautiful fever dream of a film and are like,

449
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:57,679
Speaker 1: that is a piece of art that I watched and

450
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 1: that will like linger in my mind for the rest

451
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 1: of my life, the way that some dreams do, where

452
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 1: you don't aren't necessarily able to extract any meaning from them,

453
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 1: but they haunt you forever. Yeah, I think that He's

454
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 1: like it's almost like David Lynch isn't really interest doesn't

455
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 1: want it to be interpreted. You know. Well, he has

456
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 1: said time and time again he's like refused to say

457
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,680
Speaker 1: what the film is really about. But yet on the

458
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 1: DVD release of the film, there's a bunch of questions

459
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:32,200
Speaker 1: that he like prompts you with for watching the film,

460
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:36,440
Speaker 1: and they're all very vague and like ephemeral, and it's

461
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 1: like it's kind of a troll, which I love. Right now,

462
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 1: I'm so surprised, I know about that list. It's like

463
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 1: a ten list thing. It's like the keys to this mystery.

464
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 1: I'm so surprised that he did that. There's so many

465
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 1: like silly little nuggets for these art films that you

466
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 1: can find in the like kind of post y two

467
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 1: K DVD sort of like extra's industry. He didn't want

468
00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 1: to provide any of that, but it was kind of

469
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:02,000
Speaker 1: like this nace way of getting it to an audience,

470
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 1: like command David, just like throw us a bone here, No,

471
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 1: but he doesn't explain. And you know, right now, I'm

472
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 1: actually doing this play in New York called Des Moines,

473
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 1: which is by Dennis Johnson, who's this amazing novelist and

474
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 1: poet and also playwright. And the play that I'm doing

475
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 1: right now totally exists in this dream logic that goes

476
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 1: between realism and naturalism and then total surrealism. And frequently

477
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 1: we're looking at this text or we were, and we

478
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 1: don't know what we're saying. And Dennis Johnson is no

479
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,120
Speaker 1: longer with us, so the playwright isn't in the room,

480
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 1: and this is his last play, so this is kind

481
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 1: of just like a treasure map that he left us.

482
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 1: And I think that Mulholland Drive is really fascinating on

483
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 1: the level of acting too, because you know, particularly Naomi

484
00:29:56,480 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 1: Wats's performance, you can see her making choices. She knows

485
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 1: what she's saying. She probably received the script and said,

486
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:07,040
Speaker 1: oh my god, like what does this mean? This could

487
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 1: go any which way? You know, like at the you know,

488
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 1: like even that repeated line like we don't stop here

489
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 1: that you know, Laura Maria Harring says at the beginning,

490
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 1: and I believe Naomi Watts says at the end dialogue

491
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 1: when that happens, right, like what does that mean? Who's we?

492
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 1: Why isn't she saying like what's going on? Or like hey? Why?

493
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 1: It's like what you have to make a choice as

494
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:38,280
Speaker 1: an actor if you don't know what you're saying, you

495
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:39,960
Speaker 1: have to choose what you're saying. And you have to

496
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,480
Speaker 1: let the playwright and the filmmaking or the theater making

497
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 1: or all the other people working on it, they can

498
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 1: work out the logic. If you know what you're doing,

499
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 1: then something will read on screen. And I think that

500
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 1: Mulholland Drive is this impossible alchemy of like Naomi Watt's

501
00:30:55,680 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 1: making choices, Laura Maria Harring making choices. I believe Peter Deming,

502
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 1: the cinematographer, correct me if I'm wrong. That's who did

503
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 1: Twin Peaks. I hope it's the same person making choices.

504
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 1: Angelo Battlamenti making choices, Mary Sweeney the editor making choices,

505
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 1: Tatiana like everybody's making their own choice, and David Lynch

506
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 1: is just kind of I think like encouraging everybody. I

507
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 1: think what David Lynch has is a trust of his collaborators.

508
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 1: I don't think he's this like rigid outer guy. I'm

509
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:29,719
Speaker 1: sure he knows exactly, you know. I know that he

510
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 1: knows what he wants, like, you know, down to the

511
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:37,240
Speaker 1: color of the lipstick and whatever. But it's really this

512
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 1: multi valenced thing. Even just like talking about it, I'm

513
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 1: struggling too, because it doesn't do justice to what it

514
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 1: feels like to watch it, for sure, And I feel

515
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 1: like you can see the relationships I guess that he

516
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 1: has with the actors because of like what isn't said

517
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 1: and what you can't necessarily explicitly parcel. And I think

518
00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 1: that's what gets me so wet about David Lynch in

519
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: Stay in Age because all the content, almost all the

520
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 1: content that we're kind of presented, you know, in the

521
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 1: age of like peak streaming TV, it's all so on

522
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:16,719
Speaker 1: the surface, it's all so recappable. It's also let's like

523
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 1: find the memes and all the Easter egg yeah, recap

524
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 1: reboot memes, yeah, all that stuff. You know, everything has

525
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 1: to mean something, everything has to be plucked out right,

526
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 1: and like, you know, I watch all those YouTube videos too,

527
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 1: But it's like the economy of like meaning on YouTube

528
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 1: and how people can build entire careers on pointing at

529
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 1: something and saying what it means. I know, I'm going

530
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 1: to make a YouTube video about that here. Yeah, I mean,

531
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 1: you know, pardon my non binary vibes, but I'm just like,

532
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 1: does it all need to be explained? Can can we

533
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 1: chew on a little fucking mystery bag? Like? Can can?

534
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 1: Can we sit with a question mark? Can we sit

535
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 1: on it? What happened to mystery? It's very I feel

536
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 1: like Lexie Featherston just like about to fall out that window,

537
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:17,960
Speaker 1: like nobody, why where's mystery? Nobody wants to have fun anymore? Well,

538
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 1: Charlotte famously says in season one that it's important to

539
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 1: remain a creature of miss. I think that's after Carrie farted.

540
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 1: Probably what did you make of the Lesbian? Could you

541
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 1: even call it that? I sapphic, but I also felt

542
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 1: like it was not. I think if that movie came

543
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 1: out today, there would be like a them dot Us

544
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 1: cover about it. There would be like it would there

545
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 1: would be so much extracted from that and in fact,

546
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 1: like what I thought about it in in the movie

547
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:11,719
Speaker 1: is that in the story that it's telling, Like it's

548
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:16,440
Speaker 1: such a logical conclusion of what these women are experiencing together, yes,

549
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 1: which is that they are like this. They become immediately

550
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:23,880
Speaker 1: obsessed with each other and they are like ciphers of

551
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 1: each other and there's this like doubling and doppelgangering, and

552
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 1: of course the logical conclusion is that they fuck. And

553
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:33,399
Speaker 1: it's not about like are they queer, like what are

554
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 1: the political implications of it? It just like it's there's

555
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 1: all the this energy swirling around them, and the logical

556
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 1: conclusion is that they fuck because they're obsessed with each other.

557
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 1: I mean, you know that that famous line that Betty says,

558
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 1: I want to with you. That's like the pansexual anthem

559
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:58,239
Speaker 1: to with you. It's not about gender, it's about you,

560
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:03,200
Speaker 1: about you baby. And then the end of the movie

561
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,800
Speaker 1: is kind of like okay, like what might the real

562
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:11,919
Speaker 1: world implications of this be? And it's like, i mean,

563
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 1: like fascinating, but almost less interesting to me than that

564
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 1: like ecstatic moment of them fucking when it's just like

565
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:25,400
Speaker 1: this has to happen. Yeah, it's that it's that moment

566
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:30,359
Speaker 1: where it's revealed to them. It's it's after they come

567
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:33,439
Speaker 1: back from Club Sencia. So they've just had this like

568
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 1: supernatural surreal reckoning that nothing is real and that there

569
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:43,920
Speaker 1: is no band, there is no god, there is no

570
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 1: could you know, there's no man behind the curtains, there's

571
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 1: no man behind the curtain, there's there's there's no engine.

572
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:55,280
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's almost kind of like a godlessness

573
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:58,799
Speaker 1: and a nihilism. It's like, you know, what else do

574
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 1: we have in this moment but each other? What else

575
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 1: can we consume in like get inside but each other? Um?

576
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:12,040
Speaker 1: You know. I mean I think that that's very reflective

577
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 1: of like what sex is and what can make it

578
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 1: really cool. But it's not a version of sex you

579
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:22,279
Speaker 1: often see in the movies because sex is often used

580
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 1: for plot, and we all know that plot is not

581
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:31,320
Speaker 1: the thing here. Yes, sex is vibe. That really is it.

582
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:34,759
Speaker 1: It's not plot driven sex. It's no, it's it is

583
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 1: the vibe. Well, I love that. I want to have

584
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:46,280
Speaker 1: just non plot driven viby sex. I'm having viby sex

585
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:50,440
Speaker 1: that is not plot driven. Plotless sex is Yeah, that

586
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:52,800
Speaker 1: is the vibe. I guess I kind of am two.

587
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:56,480
Speaker 1: I had sex in an office stairwell last way. Oh,

588
00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:00,720
Speaker 1: that's kind of plot driven on his bike, on his break,

589
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:04,840
Speaker 1: that's very plot driven, honestly. No, but it wasn't. But

590
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:10,880
Speaker 1: it wasn't the cracked smile. We just saw that the

591
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:17,440
Speaker 1: that the visions cannot see. Anyways. So you're a theater

592
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 1: girl now, yeah, in and out of the theater. Okay.

593
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:23,239
Speaker 1: So what's the next project for you? Um? The next

594
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:29,399
Speaker 1: project is UM the Seagull Oh my god. Yeah, it's

595
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:32,759
Speaker 1: an adaptation of The Seagull by Thomas Bradshaw. It's called

596
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:38,000
Speaker 1: The Seagull Woodstock, New York and it's at the New

597
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:42,799
Speaker 1: Group at the Pershing Square Signature Center on forty second Street. Um.

598
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:45,800
Speaker 1: I'm playing the role of Sasha, which is a version

599
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:52,160
Speaker 1: of the original Masha. Um. Parker Posey is playing the irena.

600
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:59,840
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Party Girls Unite absolutely. Nat Wolf is

601
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:04,319
Speaker 1: playing the Constantine character who I'm in love with my

602
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:10,839
Speaker 1: friend Patrick Foley from Fake Friends, that amazing queer theater collective.

603
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:14,839
Speaker 1: He is, you know, playing the guy who's in love

604
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:16,920
Speaker 1: with me and I hate him and then I marry

605
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 1: him spoiler alert. So I'm super excited for that. And

606
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:24,840
Speaker 1: that goes until April ninth. I think the performances start

607
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:28,640
Speaker 1: like the first or second week in February, so that's

608
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 1: what I'm here doing. And then after that it'll be

609
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 1: you know, May or April or whatever. I don't know.

610
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:38,799
Speaker 1: I have stuff coming out. The Idol on HBO will

611
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:42,360
Speaker 1: be coming out, which I'm in. I did an episode

612
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:46,920
Speaker 1: of this anthology series on Apple called Extrapolations, which is

613
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 1: basically Black Mirror but with climate change and celebrities. Okay,

614
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 1: I am not one of those celebrities. Was made very

615
00:38:54,680 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 1: clear to me when we were shooting. I shot this

616
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:09,320
Speaker 1: episode with Marianne Cotillard, Forrest Whitaker, Toby Maguire, and Asa Gonzalez,

617
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:12,279
Speaker 1: and it was and while we were shooting it, they

618
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 1: like announced the four of them and not me. It

619
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:18,319
Speaker 1: was like wow, we were shooting. I was just like

620
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:20,400
Speaker 1: I saw the announcement. I was like, oh work. They

621
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:22,400
Speaker 1: did announced me later in like a larger one with

622
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:26,440
Speaker 1: other people, but I was I was like, oh work. Um,

623
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 1: so like that'll come out at some point and then

624
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:35,320
Speaker 1: you know, the pink Elephant. Come on, Barbie, let's go pretty.

625
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:40,760
Speaker 1: Don't say that. I am in the Barbie movie, which

626
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:43,880
Speaker 1: will be coming out on July twenty first, and you're not.

627
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:47,800
Speaker 1: Isn't that when it comes out? I don't know. Is

628
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 1: it twenty third? I think it's twenty first. No, No,

629
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 1: it's the day Oppenheimer comes out, Barbenheimer and Pink Pink Elephant.

630
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:58,440
Speaker 1: I assume you're not yet ready to talk about it

631
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:01,279
Speaker 1: press wise, you're not in the press her Barbie, So

632
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:03,880
Speaker 1: I'm not on the press drunket, but you know everybody,

633
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:06,879
Speaker 1: everybody gets asked about it. Yeah, and you know it's

634
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:11,359
Speaker 1: it's always a sound bite. Very yeah. I mean there's

635
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 1: actually still so little about the final product that I know.

636
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:20,640
Speaker 1: I haven't seen anything. I know what I shot, and

637
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:27,239
Speaker 1: I know what the script is, and I'm so excited

638
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 1: to see it. Yeah. Yeah, that trailer got me very hype.

639
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 1: It's wild. Yeah, I got you hype. Could never could

640
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:37,319
Speaker 1: never be predicted. Like, I feel like there's so much

641
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:40,120
Speaker 1: about it where you're just like you you don't understand,

642
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:42,239
Speaker 1: you don't really know what you're you're getting going into

643
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:44,319
Speaker 1: the movie, but you think you have an idea. And

644
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 1: I don't think that's what the movie is going to serve.

645
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:47,439
Speaker 1: I hope, what do you think it's going to serve?

646
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 1: I think it's gonna serve like fucking weird, Like I hope,

647
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 1: like I hope it's weird, and I hope it's like

648
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:57,520
Speaker 1: I don't know not to I don't know. I think

649
00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:00,319
Speaker 1: I just like was I think the movie helped very

650
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:03,279
Speaker 1: unserious and very willing to make fun of one of

651
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 1: the most recognizable entities on the planet. And I thought

652
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:08,120
Speaker 1: I didn't know that that was going to happen because

653
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:14,160
Speaker 1: it's Coprode with Mattel. Yeah, that's exactly what it is. Yeah,

654
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:20,839
Speaker 1: Mattel gave Greta and Noah and us a lot of freedom.

655
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:26,920
Speaker 1: They really trusted us to go there. I think, knowing

656
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:30,600
Speaker 1: that we would have to go there in order to

657
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:35,480
Speaker 1: make a film about this doll, this idea of a woman,

658
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 1: this with this loaded history, how do we make sense

659
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:43,400
Speaker 1: of this in the present? I think they knew the

660
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 1: envelope had to be pushed in order for it to

661
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:53,080
Speaker 1: you know, quite frankly sell. And that's what we did.

662
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:55,719
Speaker 1: I mean, that's so refreshing in the world of like

663
00:41:56,239 --> 00:42:00,160
Speaker 1: existing ip and everyone being so precious about how you

664
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:02,840
Speaker 1: get to play with the toys and in what sandbox

665
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:07,160
Speaker 1: Like it sounds like the box was maybe a little bigger, dirtier,

666
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:12,120
Speaker 1: or whatever, dirtier, I don't know, but bigger certainly. I mean,

667
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 1: I think it is going to be. It's it's not

668
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:20,920
Speaker 1: like a squeaky clean thing for all ages, I imagine.

669
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:23,279
Speaker 1: I think all ages can enjoy it, but it's definitely

670
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:27,760
Speaker 1: there are definitely adult ideas and adult themes and adult

671
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:34,800
Speaker 1: vibes in it that will hopefully play to a wide audience.

672
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:37,480
Speaker 1: I thought about drag Race a lot when I was

673
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:39,600
Speaker 1: shooting it. No way, Yeah, it was kind of like

674
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:44,279
Speaker 1: Greta gerwigs drag Race and you were you a contestine

675
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:48,360
Speaker 1: or you know, because I'm there for like sixteen hours

676
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:51,120
Speaker 1: a day, I've got this wig on my head, I'm

677
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:54,279
Speaker 1: painted from hedge of how I'm singed, and you know,

678
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:57,720
Speaker 1: today it's a comedy challenge. Today, it's an acting challenge. Today,

679
00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:03,920
Speaker 1: it's a dance challenge today, um, not a sewing challenge.

680
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:07,880
Speaker 1: But it was very much I kind of had to

681
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:12,120
Speaker 1: do everything I had ever learned how to do. Ever,

682
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:17,160
Speaker 1: going back to when I was five, and I don't know,

683
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:22,120
Speaker 1: I thought a lot about like RuPaul when I was

684
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 1: making the film, and about like what he says on

685
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:27,040
Speaker 1: drag Race, what he encourages the girls to do, like

686
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:30,239
Speaker 1: to act the fool and to let it all hang

687
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 1: out and to not take yourself so seriously and to

688
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:39,920
Speaker 1: make grew laugh and Greta would laugh. She was like

689
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:42,480
Speaker 1: she would be holding it in and you would just

690
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 1: hear this, and that's how you knew. We started saying

691
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:51,080
Speaker 1: this thing after every take. I forget where this came from,

692
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:55,879
Speaker 1: but it was all about, um, mommy, say you like it. Mommy,

693
00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:58,880
Speaker 1: say you like it, Mommy, say you like it. That's that,

694
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 1: That's what we used to say. That's so funny, her mother.

695
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:07,000
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it's when you have all the

696
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 1: power of like you know, the Warner Brothers, you know,

697
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:14,000
Speaker 1: hair and makeup and costume department behind you. Shout out

698
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:16,800
Speaker 1: to Jacqueline Duran costume designer, shout out too if on

699
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:19,080
Speaker 1: a Primeriic hair and makeup designer. When you have all

700
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:22,960
Speaker 1: that behind you and on you, you can act really foolish.

701
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:29,279
Speaker 1: And so yeah, true, yeah, no, it's it's that movie

702
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:32,480
Speaker 1: took everything I had. It was exhausted. It was two

703
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:35,960
Speaker 1: like two and a half plus months, and like, you know,

704
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:38,479
Speaker 1: it's like I'm not even like the biggest role in it.

705
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:39,880
Speaker 1: It's like I'm kind of like it's like I'm in

706
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:45,480
Speaker 1: a bunch of scenes I like, show up like surf gunt,

707
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:50,440
Speaker 1: but say a couple funny things. You know. It's it's

708
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:54,720
Speaker 1: a big ensemble piece. It's it's it's far and wide,

709
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:58,400
Speaker 1: and you know, I don't know how it's going to

710
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:02,759
Speaker 1: turn out in the edit, but I've heard that there

711
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:05,960
Speaker 1: is a version. Greta came to my play and she

712
00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:09,240
Speaker 1: said that there is a cut now that she likes.

713
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:12,439
Speaker 1: And I think that test screenings are going to start soon,

714
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:15,319
Speaker 1: which like the very idea that petrifies me. And I

715
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:17,719
Speaker 1: don't know. I'm just like I'm trying to just treat

716
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:20,600
Speaker 1: it like this job I did, Like I don't want

717
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:23,800
Speaker 1: to get caught up in the hype. I believe nothing

718
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:26,360
Speaker 1: beautiful can bloom in the hype. In the light of

719
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 1: the hype. I just want to hope for the best.

720
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:32,839
Speaker 1: It's very Hollywood of you. Well, I don't know. I mean,

721
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:34,520
Speaker 1: like there's been so many times where I thought something

722
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:35,840
Speaker 1: was going to come out and change my life and

723
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:37,560
Speaker 1: it totally flopped and then nothing changed and I was

724
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:40,880
Speaker 1: back in the breadline. You know, Like that's Hollywood is

725
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:43,040
Speaker 1: like You're like, it's going to change and then everything's

726
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:45,759
Speaker 1: the same, but it took like three years to get

727
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:48,480
Speaker 1: to the climax of whatever you thought the change was

728
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:51,319
Speaker 1: going to be because Hollywood runways are so long. And

729
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:55,279
Speaker 1: then you're Diane at the end of Mulholland paying to

730
00:45:55,360 --> 00:46:00,000
Speaker 1: have your lover killed. Okay, wait, so I didn't get

731
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:04,399
Speaker 1: through the end. Someone dies at the end? Um, you're

732
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:07,719
Speaker 1: not gonna tell me, no, But it's like, it's who. Well, yes,

733
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:11,080
Speaker 1: I mean, yes, someone does die at the end, one

734
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:14,319
Speaker 1: of the women. But does she I don't know? Bury

735
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:17,719
Speaker 1: your gays? Wow, I mean, do you actually want to

736
00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:20,080
Speaker 1: It doesn't I can't even even giving you the plot

737
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:22,799
Speaker 1: details doesn't really mean anything. It's the same thing. It's

738
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:25,000
Speaker 1: like if I told you who killed Laura Palmer, It's

739
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:28,399
Speaker 1: like that wouldn't really doesn't really, I don't even matter.

740
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:32,359
Speaker 1: I don't remember who killed. There're certain plot things like

741
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:35,360
Speaker 1: that that I kind of just choose not to accept

742
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:38,520
Speaker 1: in certain things, like I don't accept that Carry ended

743
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:41,359
Speaker 1: up with Big not really. Oh, who do you think

744
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:43,239
Speaker 1: she should have ended up with? Yeah? No, no, it's

745
00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:45,759
Speaker 1: not a who. It's like she could have ended up

746
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:47,719
Speaker 1: with any of them. She could have ended up with none.

747
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:50,880
Speaker 1: Of them, you know, like, do I believe that in

748
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:55,720
Speaker 1: like the spiritual truth of twin peaks that spoiler alert,

749
00:46:55,960 --> 00:47:00,919
Speaker 1: like Leland Palmer killed Laura Palmer. Like, no, not necessarily,

750
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:04,000
Speaker 1: because that's not what the show's about. Sex and the

751
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:09,000
Speaker 1: City isn't about Carrie finding true love. It's about her

752
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:13,560
Speaker 1: looking for it, and that's what's so interesting about the show.

753
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 1: And it's about four girls and the and the city

754
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:24,960
Speaker 1: being the fifth character or Stanford is the only real character,

755
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:29,560
Speaker 1: and the other four girls are dreams. I was listening

756
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:35,160
Speaker 1: to another podcast the other day where somebody said that

757
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 1: Sex and the City is about like four gay men

758
00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:43,800
Speaker 1: living the gay lifestyle and it's just like women. Yeah,

759
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:47,960
Speaker 1: oh that's absolutely that's you know, like the Darren star

760
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:52,040
Speaker 1: Michael Patrick King fantasy Yeah avatars, Yeah, for like what

761
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:54,400
Speaker 1: a lot of like gay men were living out because

762
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 1: it's like if six hetero women were fags. Literally, I

763
00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:03,239
Speaker 1: mean that's like part of why it was. But that's

764
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:05,680
Speaker 1: like why it was amazing, because like you were watching

765
00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:08,760
Speaker 1: like women have sex in ways that you had never

766
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:11,200
Speaker 1: seen before, at least in those first few seasons where

767
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:13,360
Speaker 1: you were just like, yeah, what like women fucking like

768
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:16,799
Speaker 1: gay men well, the first episodes, literally Carris columnists. Can

769
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:19,840
Speaker 1: women have sex like men? Like? That is the premise

770
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:24,240
Speaker 1: of the whole show. And you know what we can

771
00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:31,920
Speaker 1: we have and we will continue to meland. Okay, the

772
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:36,279
Speaker 1: trans reclamation of Fire Island is a thing as of

773
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:38,719
Speaker 1: last summer. Can we talk about that? Okay? No? No,

774
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:42,560
Speaker 1: Like I first started coming there, I leaned into the mice. Yeah,

775
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:46,080
Speaker 1: little asmr. I first started coming to Fire Island like

776
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:50,560
Speaker 1: three summers ago, and I was just like, I am

777
00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:55,120
Speaker 1: going to plant my flag on this gay island because

778
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:59,040
Speaker 1: I belong here. I Am going to like party like

779
00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:01,680
Speaker 1: these gays. I'm going to have sex like these gays.

780
00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:05,360
Speaker 1: I'm going to like rent beautiful homes like these gays,

781
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:07,879
Speaker 1: because like I belong here. The spirits are telling me

782
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:11,600
Speaker 1: that I belong here. I'm supposed to be here. And

783
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:15,320
Speaker 1: it's not just me, it's the dolls, the dolls. Where

784
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:17,160
Speaker 1: are the dolls. I know where the dolls are. The

785
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:20,320
Speaker 1: dolls can't afford to pay these like crazy rental prices.

786
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:24,080
Speaker 1: So I'm like, if there's if there's anywhere where I'm

787
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:27,160
Speaker 1: like willing to admit that I am like nakedly social

788
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:31,400
Speaker 1: climbing and flying to it is Fire Island. Yes, you

789
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:33,759
Speaker 1: have to do some wealthy people there so that we

790
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:35,840
Speaker 1: can import you know, we need like a doll invasion

791
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:40,560
Speaker 1: of Fire Island. We need to become the wealthy people. No,

792
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:46,080
Speaker 1: because there's there's there's like a like, yeah, sub population

793
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:48,400
Speaker 1: of like broke twins who just got to be on

794
00:49:48,480 --> 00:49:51,640
Speaker 1: Fire Island all summer and and they inherit it or

795
00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:55,120
Speaker 1: they fucked someone's daddy or whatever, you know, yeah, or no,

796
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:59,879
Speaker 1: like they got brought out there for sex. Like right,

797
00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:03,960
Speaker 1: I would love to create that or help to create

798
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:06,600
Speaker 1: that for the dolls. And I'm and I'm literally like

799
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:10,160
Speaker 1: marching around to all these houses being like have you

800
00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:22,440
Speaker 1: ever listened to Ethel? I'm like you're like you're witness Noine.

801
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:26,160
Speaker 1: But but I'm also just like running around and you know,

802
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:29,000
Speaker 1: like I met um somebody who I dated for several months.

803
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:30,759
Speaker 1: Since you're like in a pool and Fire Island, It's

804
00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:33,319
Speaker 1: like I'm planting that blag too. I'm like, y'all can

805
00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:35,319
Speaker 1: like got with the dolls too. It's like it's like

806
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:37,120
Speaker 1: we're we're fun too. Like this is like like like

807
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:39,319
Speaker 1: we're a part of this too. It's like I don't know,

808
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:50,120
Speaker 1: I really feel like that place is the platonic, spiritual,

809
00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:54,520
Speaker 1: explosive ideal of what that place is supposed to be.

810
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:59,160
Speaker 1: Imagine when everybody is there, Yes, you know, you can

811
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:03,279
Speaker 1: really see that on BAFO weekend. BAFO is this arts

812
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:06,920
Speaker 1: organization that does this series of residencies all somewhere on

813
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:09,600
Speaker 1: Fire Island, and in August they have this performance festival

814
00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:14,600
Speaker 1: there and their programming is diverse and obviously queer centered,

815
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:17,960
Speaker 1: and like everybody comes out for this weekend and you

816
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:21,160
Speaker 1: see a crowd that is more racially diverse, socioeconomically diverse,

817
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:24,759
Speaker 1: gender diverse, and everybody's there and like, those are the

818
00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:27,720
Speaker 1: people at the fancy house parties, those are the people

819
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:31,280
Speaker 1: on the beach ascending, those are the people at the club.

820
00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:34,080
Speaker 1: And it doesn't usually look like that. It's usually just

821
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:36,400
Speaker 1: like I'm hanging with the white gays and like kumbaya.

822
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:40,439
Speaker 1: But when it does look like that, it's literally like

823
00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:43,879
Speaker 1: the most beautiful thing I've ever seen. It's paradise. I'm

824
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:46,279
Speaker 1: all in. It's like we said this when after we

825
00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:50,320
Speaker 1: had this like really lovely like Fire Island summer week

826
00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:53,440
Speaker 1: and after we left, like Rose was like it's crazy

827
00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:54,880
Speaker 1: or I think we were like in the pool and

828
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:57,000
Speaker 1: Rose was like, it's crazy, how like this is like

829
00:51:57,040 --> 00:51:59,520
Speaker 1: one of the most beautiful places on the planet inhabited

830
00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:01,759
Speaker 1: by some of the worst people alive. Like you know

831
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:03,440
Speaker 1: what I mean, Like obviously there are a lot of

832
00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:07,200
Speaker 1: amazing people there too, but well, but don't you think

833
00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:12,680
Speaker 1: that that's relative to where our population like like imagine

834
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:15,879
Speaker 1: if you were in like Easthampton. Sure, yeah it would

835
00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:19,000
Speaker 1: be it would be much worse. But that feeling was

836
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:23,480
Speaker 1: like so much because of how um how different it

837
00:52:23,600 --> 00:52:26,920
Speaker 1: was this summer when for once, this was the first

838
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:28,680
Speaker 1: time when we rented a house for a week that

839
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:32,200
Speaker 1: like we had the house. It wasn't like going and

840
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:34,160
Speaker 1: staying with someone where they had brought out all the

841
00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:37,319
Speaker 1: people they wanted to fuck and then like they're one

842
00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:41,879
Speaker 1: trans friend and like lesbian friend, and it's like really

843
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:44,839
Speaker 1: different when you have the house and you get to

844
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:47,200
Speaker 1: curate the people who come out there and the people

845
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:51,320
Speaker 1: who they bring out, and like that just breeds more

846
00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:54,719
Speaker 1: and more of the girls and the dolls being out

847
00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:58,040
Speaker 1: there and that that is how we you know, take

848
00:52:58,040 --> 00:53:03,479
Speaker 1: it back right, And I think that gay men need

849
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:07,680
Speaker 1: to kind of abide by this one guiding principle. My

850
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:10,279
Speaker 1: friend was talking about this other day about what he

851
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:12,960
Speaker 1: looks for while dating and a partner, you know, as

852
00:53:13,320 --> 00:53:15,120
Speaker 1: gay guy, one of my best friends. He was like,

853
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:17,759
Speaker 1: the number one thing I look for when dating, like

854
00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:21,839
Speaker 1: in the gay dating pool, is like, does this man

855
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:26,320
Speaker 1: love women? If you want to be my lover, you

856
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:30,320
Speaker 1: gotta get women alls, but also the lesbians and also

857
00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:32,879
Speaker 1: just like girls, there are so many gay men who

858
00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:36,920
Speaker 1: don't enjoy the company of women, who don't see women,

859
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:42,759
Speaker 1: don't don't write not like the hottest take. But when

860
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:45,640
Speaker 1: you actually zoom out and think about it, it's like

861
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:54,080
Speaker 1: gay life is better with women. Literally, literally it just is.

862
00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:58,600
Speaker 1: And I think that you know so many of like

863
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:02,240
Speaker 1: you know, the party gays, and just like the giggdy gays,

864
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:04,360
Speaker 1: like they're always I think a lot of them always

865
00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:08,200
Speaker 1: have these very generic complaints about the homogeneity in their

866
00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:12,160
Speaker 1: social circles and in their sexual circles. Like you can

867
00:54:12,239 --> 00:54:16,000
Speaker 1: solve that problem by just bringing women around, whether or

868
00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:19,879
Speaker 1: not you're hanging with them, whether or not you're like

869
00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:22,520
Speaker 1: you know, getting a little MIXI and like loving on

870
00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:25,640
Speaker 1: them or sucking on them, Like gay is just better

871
00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:43,840
Speaker 1: with women. Six gay guys on trans girls. There's a

872
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:49,880
Speaker 1: very special marriage there. Yeah. Yeah, because gay guys get

873
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:56,560
Speaker 1: to be a man to that woman in a way

874
00:54:57,560 --> 00:55:01,960
Speaker 1: that they were like shamed and admonished for it and

875
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:04,560
Speaker 1: then had to mourn probably at a young age, like

876
00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:07,000
Speaker 1: never ever being able to be a man to a

877
00:55:07,080 --> 00:55:11,080
Speaker 1: woman in that way. And trans girls get to like

878
00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:14,600
Speaker 1: receive that and have a man to their woman and

879
00:55:14,680 --> 00:55:17,640
Speaker 1: be a girl to that man in a way that

880
00:55:17,719 --> 00:55:20,600
Speaker 1: feels very I think far away for a lot of us.

881
00:55:20,680 --> 00:55:26,319
Speaker 1: There's kind of this like this like frequently sexless heterosexuality

882
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:29,120
Speaker 1: that happens between like this is gays and the dolls

883
00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:34,240
Speaker 1: where they can actually create the Norman Rockwell, the Norman

884
00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:38,359
Speaker 1: Rockwell picture together, and I think that that's like the

885
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:41,279
Speaker 1: glue that binds it. They It's like we kind of

886
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:49,440
Speaker 1: can create this illusion of heterosexual belonging while still being

887
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:53,200
Speaker 1: our queer selves, Like we can get the affirmation and

888
00:55:54,040 --> 00:55:56,080
Speaker 1: the thrill of living our own little thing at the

889
00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:58,360
Speaker 1: same time. I totally get what you're saying. There is

890
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:04,359
Speaker 1: a sort of romanticism in the relationship between a gay

891
00:56:04,360 --> 00:56:07,359
Speaker 1: man and his doll. Yeah. Like my best friend Ryan

892
00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:12,920
Speaker 1: and I like there is we are soulmates siblings and like,

893
00:56:13,080 --> 00:56:14,840
Speaker 1: you know, when we go to the movies, we hold

894
00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:19,200
Speaker 1: hands and like there is there is something like I mean,

895
00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:23,080
Speaker 1: there's nothing sexual about it, but there is a romanticism

896
00:56:23,120 --> 00:56:26,640
Speaker 1: and a tenderness there that does feel very much like

897
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:32,800
Speaker 1: we are filling out that role of you know, whatever,

898
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:36,600
Speaker 1: whatever is expected of a man and a woman being

899
00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:40,319
Speaker 1: together in society, and tenderness is such an elusive thing.

900
00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:43,600
Speaker 1: I think for both you know, sis men in the

901
00:56:43,640 --> 00:56:46,160
Speaker 1: gay dating pool and sex pool and like trans women

902
00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:52,320
Speaker 1: in you know, the trans straight dating pool or sex pool,

903
00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:57,200
Speaker 1: I think that having that communion coming together in a

904
00:56:57,239 --> 00:57:02,040
Speaker 1: way that is like essentially societally sanctioned in this like

905
00:57:02,120 --> 00:57:05,239
Speaker 1: header a way, it does create this sense of like

906
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:07,920
Speaker 1: I got that too, and it's nice that I have that.

907
00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:12,520
Speaker 1: I mean, aside from also affirmation, I do feel like,

908
00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:15,520
Speaker 1: you know, there's like a language that you click into

909
00:57:15,640 --> 00:57:18,320
Speaker 1: really quickly. But I think a lot of like gay

910
00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:21,840
Speaker 1: men like or maybe I'm speaking broadly, but like I

911
00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:23,280
Speaker 1: feel like a lot of gay men that I don't

912
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:27,440
Speaker 1: know don't have trans people are trans friends in their life,

913
00:57:27,480 --> 00:57:29,880
Speaker 1: and I feel like there's a lot of like you're

914
00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:31,919
Speaker 1: just like and that's so sad. Yeah, it's really sad.

915
00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:33,440
Speaker 1: It's kind of like why. But I think that a

916
00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:35,240
Speaker 1: lot of that has to do with like the fear

917
00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:38,720
Speaker 1: of what they don't know, and yet they I think

918
00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:41,080
Speaker 1: a lot of people that just don't inhabit like trans

919
00:57:41,120 --> 00:57:44,840
Speaker 1: spaces or trans circles just don't know that you actually

920
00:57:44,840 --> 00:57:48,040
Speaker 1: have so much in common. Obviously very different experiences, but

921
00:57:48,120 --> 00:57:50,840
Speaker 1: there's so much overlap. There's so much in your own

922
00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:54,320
Speaker 1: languages that you can exchange. I mean, I don't think

923
00:57:54,360 --> 00:57:57,120
Speaker 1: it's a crime not to have trans people in your life.

924
00:57:57,120 --> 00:57:58,400
Speaker 1: If they're not in your life. I mean, there are

925
00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:02,960
Speaker 1: people freak quently want to forget in all these conversations

926
00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:05,720
Speaker 1: that like there are so few of us. Yeah, I

927
00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:07,440
Speaker 1: think it's more of a crime when there are no

928
00:58:07,480 --> 00:58:12,680
Speaker 1: women in your life. Yeah, particularly particularly with gay men,

929
00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:16,720
Speaker 1: because there is such a celebration of femininity, because the

930
00:58:16,800 --> 00:58:20,400
Speaker 1: gay men are bumping the divas, they are watching drag race,

931
00:58:20,520 --> 00:58:24,280
Speaker 1: they are talking about celebrities, and yet they have no

932
00:58:24,640 --> 00:58:29,600
Speaker 1: actual physical proximity to women. That and I'm fucking weird,

933
00:58:29,840 --> 00:58:32,240
Speaker 1: and back to drag race. Honestly, like, I think that's

934
00:58:32,280 --> 00:58:36,360
Speaker 1: part of why so much of like, you know, contemporary

935
00:58:36,440 --> 00:58:38,560
Speaker 1: drag Race not so much like Drag Race of your

936
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:39,800
Speaker 1: but a lot of drag Race right now is like

937
00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:42,400
Speaker 1: really hard to watch, like the communities, like the people

938
00:58:42,400 --> 00:58:45,080
Speaker 1: that are consuming it. It's like there's just like ache

939
00:58:45,080 --> 00:58:48,240
Speaker 1: feeling around. I don't know what you're describing, I guess,

940
00:58:48,240 --> 00:58:50,520
Speaker 1: And also just the show. It's like not just good anymore.

941
00:58:50,640 --> 00:58:55,000
Speaker 1: But I still watch every season. I'm can I confess something, Yes,

942
00:58:56,080 --> 00:59:02,760
Speaker 1: I watch drag Race, so I know you, Like, I

943
00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:06,640
Speaker 1: don't just watch drag Race. I watch like the YouTube

944
00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:11,720
Speaker 1: recaps and like conspiracy theory videos. I've rewatched every season

945
00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:14,680
Speaker 1: of drag Race, like the main Drag Race and All Stars.

946
00:59:14,680 --> 00:59:17,680
Speaker 1: I've rewatched all of them, like at least twice, like

947
00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:20,840
Speaker 1: some of them like five ors. Like It's literally the

948
00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:25,000
Speaker 1: thing that I will turn on when I'm like tired

949
00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:28,520
Speaker 1: and I want to just like have a little laugh.

950
00:59:28,800 --> 00:59:32,840
Speaker 1: Which comfort show. It's my comfort show. It used to

951
00:59:32,880 --> 00:59:35,160
Speaker 1: be Sex in the City, but I made a vow

952
00:59:35,240 --> 00:59:36,920
Speaker 1: to myself because I've watched Sex in the City more

953
00:59:36,920 --> 00:59:38,760
Speaker 1: than twenty times. I made a vow to myself to

954
00:59:38,760 --> 00:59:40,880
Speaker 1: stop watching sex I'm not going to watch it again

955
00:59:40,960 --> 00:59:43,560
Speaker 1: until I'm Carrie in season one years old, which is

956
00:59:43,600 --> 00:59:47,160
Speaker 1: thirty two because I think that show kind of like

957
00:59:47,320 --> 00:59:50,080
Speaker 1: wired my brain for dating in a way that places

958
00:59:50,080 --> 00:59:52,440
Speaker 1: like Fire Island have helped me get out of. But

959
00:59:53,240 --> 00:59:55,000
Speaker 1: now it's Drag Race, and I'm actually trying to get

960
00:59:55,000 --> 00:59:56,440
Speaker 1: out of that too, because I've like run out of

961
00:59:56,480 --> 00:59:58,560
Speaker 1: Drag Race a little bit, and I like can't keep

962
00:59:58,600 --> 01:00:02,080
Speaker 1: doing this to myself. But like, I'm actually so obsessed

963
01:00:02,160 --> 01:00:05,120
Speaker 1: with Drag Race, and I think it's like this amazing show.

964
01:00:05,200 --> 01:00:08,520
Speaker 1: I mean, like, yes, there are issues that people have

965
01:00:08,640 --> 01:00:12,960
Speaker 1: pointed out that are valid in the fandom is like

966
01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:18,200
Speaker 1: rot rotation, the fantom is rotted to the electric chair,

967
01:00:18,680 --> 01:00:20,800
Speaker 1: but in you know, like I think, in order to

968
01:00:20,840 --> 01:00:24,160
Speaker 1: watch Drag Race like sustainably, you have to actually also

969
01:00:24,240 --> 01:00:26,640
Speaker 1: be like a fan of drag and like of queens

970
01:00:26,680 --> 01:00:28,800
Speaker 1: who aren't on the show, and you have to support

971
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:31,720
Speaker 1: local drag, which like I actually don't do as much

972
01:00:31,760 --> 01:00:33,320
Speaker 1: as I could, but I still do as much as

973
01:00:33,360 --> 01:00:37,960
Speaker 1: I can. Um. The issue about supporting local drag is

974
01:00:38,000 --> 01:00:40,960
Speaker 1: that like the queens to me are like Pearls before swine,

975
01:00:41,040 --> 01:00:44,800
Speaker 1: Like I don't want to go to those clubs, yeah yeah,

976
01:00:44,840 --> 01:00:49,280
Speaker 1: and be in community with everyone there. One can only

977
01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:52,200
Speaker 1: do so much no, but I just saw Sharlene and

978
01:00:52,240 --> 01:00:55,640
Speaker 1: Karnate perform at the Poetry Project twenty four hour marathon,

979
01:00:55,680 --> 01:00:57,080
Speaker 1: and I love that they had drag up in the

980
01:00:57,120 --> 01:01:01,480
Speaker 1: Poetry Project. Um that's how it should be. Um yeah,

981
01:01:01,520 --> 01:01:04,240
Speaker 1: I mean Brooklyn Jag is really it, Like I think

982
01:01:04,320 --> 01:01:06,919
Speaker 1: for New York, I'm I'm not really out in Hell's

983
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:10,120
Speaker 1: kitchen much. You're not going to industry And I don't

984
01:01:10,120 --> 01:01:14,320
Speaker 1: even know if that no feet cost extra? Do you?

985
01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:19,080
Speaker 1: I'm fascinated by a really good to live by. I

986
01:01:19,120 --> 01:01:22,560
Speaker 1: think everyone that's that should be everyone's resolution for twenty

987
01:01:22,640 --> 01:01:25,840
Speaker 1: twenty three feet cost extra. I really want to be

988
01:01:25,880 --> 01:01:29,080
Speaker 1: a guest judge on Rutbaul Jager's Routpaul, if you're listening,

989
01:01:29,160 --> 01:01:31,480
Speaker 1: I really really want it, Babe, that's in the cart.

990
01:01:31,640 --> 01:01:36,040
Speaker 1: I think that's really matter when yeah, it's yeah, it's

991
01:01:36,080 --> 01:01:42,160
Speaker 1: not an if. I I love drag. Drag is like

992
01:01:42,680 --> 01:01:45,440
Speaker 1: a huge kind of inspiration for like, I'm kind of

993
01:01:45,440 --> 01:01:49,479
Speaker 1: in my wig era right now. No, I'm wearing wigs

994
01:01:49,520 --> 01:01:53,960
Speaker 1: and everything we love. Yeah, it's it's drags. So wait,

995
01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:56,480
Speaker 1: what's your favorite season or rather maybe not favorite season,

996
01:01:56,480 --> 01:01:58,960
Speaker 1: but this season you always returned to or the comfort season.

997
01:01:59,760 --> 01:02:04,960
Speaker 1: The comfort season is kind of where it all began

998
01:02:05,040 --> 01:02:08,960
Speaker 1: for me, which is sort of season four, I think,

999
01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:11,760
Speaker 1: I mean season five has kind of emerged more recently

1000
01:02:11,760 --> 01:02:14,600
Speaker 1: as like this is sort of like the season, like

1001
01:02:14,680 --> 01:02:20,680
Speaker 1: this is kind of when it peaked. No, it's it's Jinks,

1002
01:02:21,800 --> 01:02:24,760
Speaker 1: and season four is Sharon, Season four is Sharon. Actually

1003
01:02:24,800 --> 01:02:27,360
Speaker 1: think season five is the true Girl, not just because

1004
01:02:27,400 --> 01:02:29,680
Speaker 1: of the queens, which are I don't think we've ever

1005
01:02:29,720 --> 01:02:32,080
Speaker 1: seen a season of that caliber with the casting, but

1006
01:02:32,120 --> 01:02:35,360
Speaker 1: also because of the storyline, like we've never had anything

1007
01:02:35,360 --> 01:02:40,200
Speaker 1: like Cocoa and Alyssa since Coco, and like that's why

1008
01:02:40,280 --> 01:02:43,360
Speaker 1: it was good. And then like Jings versus Rulaska talks

1009
01:02:43,400 --> 01:02:45,880
Speaker 1: like we've like we don't have that shit anymore. They're

1010
01:02:45,920 --> 01:02:48,080
Speaker 1: all too nice. It was like it was like biblical

1011
01:02:48,600 --> 01:02:53,439
Speaker 1: but totally biblical. It was it was David versus the Goliaths. Yeah,

1012
01:02:54,960 --> 01:02:59,760
Speaker 1: it was less self perception, you know, less self editing.

1013
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:02,240
Speaker 1: I'm like I but I what I also love from

1014
01:03:02,280 --> 01:03:05,120
Speaker 1: like really more so like the first like one, two, three,

1015
01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:08,680
Speaker 1: and then like four seasons, it's like they were all

1016
01:03:08,920 --> 01:03:16,120
Speaker 1: kind of transsexual, like like they were all like cross dressing,

1017
01:03:16,520 --> 01:03:19,600
Speaker 1: like they were all wearing like ready to wear they were,

1018
01:03:19,680 --> 01:03:22,480
Speaker 1: you know, and and I know that they can't do

1019
01:03:22,480 --> 01:03:26,919
Speaker 1: this anymore, but like I miss when Paul was like four,

1020
01:03:27,160 --> 01:03:29,360
Speaker 1: they all these new glamour girls and they're sitting on

1021
01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:34,120
Speaker 1: a big old secret. I know, I bring back, bring

1022
01:03:34,120 --> 01:03:39,720
Speaker 1: back you, like like I miss, I miss the like

1023
01:03:39,760 --> 01:03:42,920
Speaker 1: the lady boy jokes and the tranny jokes, since the

1024
01:03:43,080 --> 01:03:48,280
Speaker 1: like she's got a dick Joe and how like like

1025
01:03:48,280 --> 01:03:50,320
Speaker 1: like like all they could ever say on the runway

1026
01:03:50,520 --> 01:03:53,560
Speaker 1: is like you know, veiled versions of like she's got

1027
01:03:53,600 --> 01:03:58,920
Speaker 1: a dick under you. Like it's so good. I know,

1028
01:03:59,120 --> 01:04:02,840
Speaker 1: make drag trap again. I know, and I'm sorry, but

1029
01:04:02,880 --> 01:04:06,120
Speaker 1: like like the girls are gonna eat me a why

1030
01:04:06,240 --> 01:04:09,520
Speaker 1: for saying this? But like I you know, like as me,

1031
01:04:09,960 --> 01:04:19,160
Speaker 1: I do watch drag Race and like experience recognition. I like,

1032
01:04:19,160 --> 01:04:22,680
Speaker 1: like I do watch drag Race and experience not only recognition,

1033
01:04:22,800 --> 01:04:25,400
Speaker 1: but my friend Devin Diaz, who's you know, one of

1034
01:04:25,400 --> 01:04:28,040
Speaker 1: my favorite writers and thinkers, She's like, drag Race is

1035
01:04:28,080 --> 01:04:30,400
Speaker 1: such a hit with like you know, the millennial and

1036
01:04:30,480 --> 01:04:33,360
Speaker 1: gen Z gays because it's a microcosm of like the

1037
01:04:33,400 --> 01:04:38,760
Speaker 1: gay gig economy. Like RuPaul is like Intertuba. You have

1038
01:04:38,840 --> 01:04:42,360
Speaker 1: to do all of these like stupid things, like you

1039
01:04:42,440 --> 01:04:44,440
Speaker 1: have to do it all, like including like you know,

1040
01:04:44,560 --> 01:04:47,560
Speaker 1: market yourself as a product. And like these poor queens

1041
01:04:47,880 --> 01:04:51,320
Speaker 1: who are like you know, amazing makeup artists and like

1042
01:04:51,360 --> 01:04:54,240
Speaker 1: hair artists and like you know, lip sync artists, actresses,

1043
01:04:54,320 --> 01:04:56,440
Speaker 1: like they're gonna go home on a challenge where they

1044
01:04:56,480 --> 01:04:59,120
Speaker 1: have to sell themselves as a product and like that's

1045
01:04:59,160 --> 01:05:04,680
Speaker 1: not just a showbiz maybe that's America. Like this is commentary. No,

1046
01:05:04,960 --> 01:05:08,560
Speaker 1: I think it's really brilliant, and I agree. I just

1047
01:05:08,640 --> 01:05:11,200
Speaker 1: love Drag Race. I've said this on the pod before.

1048
01:05:11,440 --> 01:05:14,360
Speaker 1: I even though I feel like it's declined in quality,

1049
01:05:14,480 --> 01:05:17,040
Speaker 1: I do think that this panel of judges and Drew

1050
01:05:17,080 --> 01:05:19,960
Speaker 1: and Michelle specifically are just like some of the best,

1051
01:05:19,960 --> 01:05:22,360
Speaker 1: like the best that we can get in reality TV

1052
01:05:22,520 --> 01:05:26,040
Speaker 1: and reality competition doing things that are like sublime and

1053
01:05:26,240 --> 01:05:29,720
Speaker 1: cerebral and weird and inside jokey that you just don't

1054
01:05:29,880 --> 01:05:33,760
Speaker 1: see in other shows. And now it's like franchised and

1055
01:05:33,960 --> 01:05:38,080
Speaker 1: like you know this betham off that feels like something different,

1056
01:05:38,120 --> 01:05:40,560
Speaker 1: but it's still I mean, I also watch like every

1057
01:05:40,560 --> 01:05:46,280
Speaker 1: fucking episode. We need David Lynch as a drag race guestrate. Yeah,

1058
01:05:47,640 --> 01:05:51,000
Speaker 1: he would. Actually, I feel like, you know, do right

1059
01:05:51,200 --> 01:05:54,160
Speaker 1: by the queens that I always gravitate towards, like you know,

1060
01:05:54,320 --> 01:05:59,360
Speaker 1: the Tammy Browns of Banina Bonina Browns, Yes of the world.

1061
01:05:59,440 --> 01:06:04,600
Speaker 1: Tammy Brown kind of is a Lynchian figure, absolutely, because

1062
01:06:04,680 --> 01:06:09,120
Speaker 1: there is there's She kind of is like a creature

1063
01:06:09,160 --> 01:06:12,280
Speaker 1: of Mulholland Drive, because like the sort of world of

1064
01:06:12,320 --> 01:06:16,400
Speaker 1: her character is this like idea of a Hollywood that

1065
01:06:16,440 --> 01:06:21,920
Speaker 1: doesn't exist. I'm acting right, like like the she and

1066
01:06:22,000 --> 01:06:26,480
Speaker 1: the magazine like it's very sunset boulevard. Wait that is

1067
01:06:26,800 --> 01:06:29,880
Speaker 1: can I say? Can I say? That's so? I was

1068
01:06:29,920 --> 01:06:32,720
Speaker 1: going to ask you when you were talking about like

1069
01:06:32,760 --> 01:06:35,600
Speaker 1: Greta's drag race, I was going to ask you a

1070
01:06:35,640 --> 01:06:39,640
Speaker 1: stupid question like what is which drag race archetype? Are

1071
01:06:39,640 --> 01:06:42,360
Speaker 1: you in in this? Uh? In this contest? Like are

1072
01:06:42,360 --> 01:06:45,160
Speaker 1: you the look queen? Are you the comedy queen? Are

1073
01:06:45,160 --> 01:06:48,360
Speaker 1: you like the art performance like Willow Pill Jimbo type?

1074
01:06:48,440 --> 01:06:54,200
Speaker 1: Like what are you giving? So certain? There's kind of

1075
01:06:54,240 --> 01:07:01,680
Speaker 1: like a broadness and like a an endedness too. I

1076
01:07:01,680 --> 01:07:05,440
Speaker 1: think a lot of the way the character some of

1077
01:07:05,440 --> 01:07:08,520
Speaker 1: these characters are distinguished. I don't want to give away

1078
01:07:08,560 --> 01:07:12,480
Speaker 1: too much, but I was asking about you personally. No, no, no, no, no,

1079
01:07:12,640 --> 01:07:16,560
Speaker 1: I know, but like for me, I was sort of

1080
01:07:16,600 --> 01:07:20,280
Speaker 1: like subliminally and like behind the scenes and what they

1081
01:07:20,320 --> 01:07:25,120
Speaker 1: wanted to do with my character knowing, you know, frankly,

1082
01:07:25,240 --> 01:07:28,600
Speaker 1: like they said, we want to use kind of like

1083
01:07:28,640 --> 01:07:31,560
Speaker 1: what you're known for. So I'm kind of the look

1084
01:07:31,640 --> 01:07:35,840
Speaker 1: Queen love. That's what we need, thats what we need. Yeah,

1085
01:07:35,920 --> 01:07:40,760
Speaker 1: I've I've got a lot of costumes. I thought a

1086
01:07:40,840 --> 01:07:45,200
Speaker 1: lot of them in their crazy and I actually kind

1087
01:07:45,200 --> 01:07:48,880
Speaker 1: of helped design some of them. That's maybe that's fine,

1088
01:07:49,040 --> 01:07:51,400
Speaker 1: not like design design, but like you know, I made

1089
01:07:51,440 --> 01:07:55,080
Speaker 1: some I made color choices, I said, maybe that, you know,

1090
01:07:55,720 --> 01:07:57,560
Speaker 1: it was fun, it was a clever I even you know,

1091
01:07:57,760 --> 01:08:01,880
Speaker 1: helped call in some designer pulls as well. Yeah. No,

1092
01:08:02,080 --> 01:08:05,160
Speaker 1: the power of the international implications of that. Oh listen.

1093
01:08:05,200 --> 01:08:07,720
Speaker 1: If if there's one like bonus thing I can bring

1094
01:08:07,760 --> 01:08:09,960
Speaker 1: to a film production, it's clothes. I've done that for

1095
01:08:11,320 --> 01:08:15,480
Speaker 1: every film that I've done in the past couple of years. Um,

1096
01:08:16,080 --> 01:08:18,240
Speaker 1: you know, there's there's this film that hasn't even been

1097
01:08:18,240 --> 01:08:20,840
Speaker 1: announced yet that I shot before Barbie that I think

1098
01:08:20,960 --> 01:08:24,360
Speaker 1: is going to be playing a festival later this year,

1099
01:08:24,800 --> 01:08:30,439
Speaker 1: and um, you know I called in looks for that. Um, okay,

1100
01:08:30,439 --> 01:08:32,800
Speaker 1: so you are the look queen. I am, I'm the

1101
01:08:32,840 --> 01:08:38,800
Speaker 1: elusive Shantus and you're in your wig era, your Rita

1102
01:08:38,880 --> 01:08:42,000
Speaker 1: when she puts on the blonde wig. Well, I mean,

1103
01:08:42,040 --> 01:08:44,840
Speaker 1: we haven't even talked about the like blonde brunette thing,

1104
01:08:45,160 --> 01:08:49,240
Speaker 1: which is so important, so important, truly, it's it's the movie,

1105
01:08:49,320 --> 01:08:52,680
Speaker 1: it's thematically, you know, that's the engine. And now you're

1106
01:08:52,720 --> 01:09:02,200
Speaker 1: a redhead. Yeah. I wonder why. I wonder why. What

1107
01:09:02,360 --> 01:09:06,519
Speaker 1: could have prompted that decision? When did I go red?

1108
01:09:07,520 --> 01:09:10,680
Speaker 1: What was I doing at the time? Connecting the dots?

1109
01:09:10,920 --> 01:09:13,400
Speaker 1: But you are now an iconic redhead? I feel really,

1110
01:09:13,640 --> 01:09:19,120
Speaker 1: I mean I am again, I only am saying it

1111
01:09:19,160 --> 01:09:22,120
Speaker 1: didn't feel iconic. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I think I'm

1112
01:09:22,120 --> 01:09:23,720
Speaker 1: going to keep it for a second because it's just

1113
01:09:23,760 --> 01:09:26,519
Speaker 1: going to keep popping up. And like, I don't know

1114
01:09:26,560 --> 01:09:29,559
Speaker 1: when I went red, the demon came out. I went

1115
01:09:29,600 --> 01:09:34,040
Speaker 1: red right before that Fire Island summer, and girl, the

1116
01:09:34,120 --> 01:09:37,439
Speaker 1: demon the demon is quite frankly still out. The demon

1117
01:09:37,560 --> 01:09:40,160
Speaker 1: is subdued by eight shows a week and not having

1118
01:09:40,200 --> 01:09:42,960
Speaker 1: any energy to do anything other than have sex in

1119
01:09:42,960 --> 01:09:47,720
Speaker 1: an office stairwell for like ten minutes. But um, yeah,

1120
01:09:48,400 --> 01:09:54,599
Speaker 1: I'm so flattered that you think I'm elusive because I

1121
01:09:54,640 --> 01:10:01,320
Speaker 1: don't feel that way, and I I'm like yeah, because

1122
01:10:01,320 --> 01:10:03,960
Speaker 1: I'm I'm like, I'm extrovert. I'm an over sure and

1123
01:10:03,960 --> 01:10:06,000
Speaker 1: it takes a lot of restraint not to just like

1124
01:10:06,680 --> 01:10:10,479
Speaker 1: shit post all the time. Both Irl and Urel, well,

1125
01:10:10,560 --> 01:10:14,360
Speaker 1: you seem to have um mastered it. I mean, virgins

1126
01:10:14,400 --> 01:10:16,400
Speaker 1: you can't tell, but I mean there's not even a

1127
01:10:16,439 --> 01:10:18,599
Speaker 1: person in here in the room. It's just like a

1128
01:10:18,600 --> 01:10:23,040
Speaker 1: shifting shimmering that's kind of like a rip in the

1129
01:10:23,080 --> 01:10:27,840
Speaker 1: fabric of the universe, has red hair on top, and

1130
01:10:30,120 --> 01:10:43,040
Speaker 1: it's just a If you liked this episode with Harry,

1131
01:10:43,360 --> 01:10:47,400
Speaker 1: you are in luck, babe, because there's more. We cut

1132
01:10:47,479 --> 01:10:51,840
Speaker 1: a little bit from this conversation and put it on

1133
01:10:52,040 --> 01:10:56,040
Speaker 1: our Patreon as part of an exclusive bonus episode, and

1134
01:10:56,120 --> 01:10:58,479
Speaker 1: you can get access to that, as well as weekly

1135
01:10:58,560 --> 01:11:02,840
Speaker 1: bonus episodes and lots of other fun content by going

1136
01:11:02,880 --> 01:11:05,799
Speaker 1: to patreon dot com slash like a Virgin and becoming

1137
01:11:05,840 --> 01:11:09,000
Speaker 1: one of the founding members of our Patreon for only

1138
01:11:09,000 --> 01:11:12,360
Speaker 1: five dollars a month. That's a deal, babe. Slide into

1139
01:11:12,360 --> 01:11:15,840
Speaker 1: our dms and let us know what's your favorite David

1140
01:11:15,920 --> 01:11:19,519
Speaker 1: Lynch movie, what's your favorite season of drag Race? And

1141
01:11:19,800 --> 01:11:22,439
Speaker 1: go to Like a Virgin four twenty sixty nine dot

1142
01:11:22,479 --> 01:11:26,880
Speaker 1: com to buy our exclusive merch. You can't see right now,

1143
01:11:26,920 --> 01:11:29,040
Speaker 1: but like Rose and I are are wearing the hat.

1144
01:11:29,160 --> 01:11:33,160
Speaker 1: We're very QBC trying on the mallgoth hoodie. Okay, holding

1145
01:11:33,240 --> 01:11:37,080
Speaker 1: up our Galadriel tone look sickening, nickening. Also make sure

1146
01:11:37,120 --> 01:11:39,240
Speaker 1: that you're following us on Instagram at Like a Virgin

1147
01:11:39,320 --> 01:11:42,640
Speaker 1: four twenty sixty nine. I'm your co host Rosdamu. You

1148
01:11:42,680 --> 01:11:46,040
Speaker 1: can follow me anywhere you want at Rosdamu and I'm

1149
01:11:46,080 --> 01:11:48,760
Speaker 1: France Ratta. You can find me at France squishco. And

1150
01:11:49,120 --> 01:11:52,599
Speaker 1: please give us five stars on Spotify, rate and review us,

1151
01:11:53,040 --> 01:11:56,840
Speaker 1: share our social channels all the time. Thank you. Like

1152
01:11:56,920 --> 01:11:59,880
Speaker 1: a Virgin is an iHeartRadio production. Our producers Phoebe and

1153
01:12:00,000 --> 01:12:03,559
Speaker 1: Winter was support from Lindcy Hawkman and Nikki Utour. Until

1154
01:12:03,640 --> 01:12:07,679
Speaker 1: next week. Go to Patreon dot com slash Like a Virgin.

1155
01:12:08,320 --> 01:12:16,720
Speaker 1: Bye h