WEBVTT - Brian Grazer Discusses Imagine Entertainment 0:00:02.200 --> 0:00:06.760 This is Master's in Business with Barry Riddholts on Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:07.280 --> 0:00:09.480 This week on the podcast What Can I Say? I 0:00:09.520 --> 0:00:12.360 have an extra special guest. His name is Brian Grazer. 0:00:12.920 --> 0:00:16.520 If you have any interest in the entertainment industry, if 0:00:16.560 --> 0:00:19.920 you're a film buff, if you watch any of the 0:00:19.920 --> 0:00:23.680 best television and films produced over the past thirty years, 0:00:23.680 --> 0:00:27.440 well then you're definitely familiar with his work and you 0:00:27.480 --> 0:00:31.840 will find this to be an absolutely fantastic conversation, fascinating 0:00:32.280 --> 0:00:36.920 and informative. With no further ado, my interview of Brian Grazer. 0:00:38.120 --> 0:00:42.680 This is Master's in Business with Barry Ridholts on Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:43.360 --> 0:00:47.400 My extra special guest this week is Brian Grazer. He 0:00:47.600 --> 0:00:50.920 is the co founder of Imagine Entertainment with his partner 0:00:51.000 --> 0:00:54.760 Ron Howard. He is the producer of such seminal films 0:00:54.840 --> 0:01:00.280 as Splash, Backdraft, Apollo thirteen, Liar, Liar eight Mile. His 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:04.880 television offerings include such things as Sports Night twenty four 0:01:05.080 --> 0:01:07.600 and The cult Can I call it a cult favorite? 0:01:07.640 --> 0:01:12.080 Arrested Development it is. His films have generated more than 0:01:12.160 --> 0:01:15.000 thirteen and a half billion dollars in revenue, and his 0:01:15.160 --> 0:01:18.640 television work has done probably twice as much as that. 0:01:18.959 --> 0:01:22.120 The Producers Guild of America awarded him the David ol 0:01:22.160 --> 0:01:25.840 Selznick Lifetime Achievement Award in two thousand and one. He 0:01:25.959 --> 0:01:28.959 is the author of A Curious Mind and most recently, 0:01:29.840 --> 0:01:33.200 Face to Face The Art of Human Connection. Brian Grazer, 0:01:33.400 --> 0:01:37.200 Welcome to Bloomberg. Thank you glad to be here Bloomberg. 0:01:37.360 --> 0:01:39.840 Rather and with Barry and I helped me get all 0:01:39.880 --> 0:01:43.200 my food items for the morning. We we got you 0:01:43.240 --> 0:01:45.880 ready to go. So I'm looking deeply into your eyes. 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:50.000 And in the book you explain how as a kid 0:01:50.840 --> 0:01:54.000 that was a problem. Looking people directly face to face 0:01:54.480 --> 0:01:57.280 was a challenge. How did that manifest itself and how 0:01:57.280 --> 0:02:01.040 did you overcome that? Okay, so, um and thank you 0:02:01.040 --> 0:02:03.840 for reading the book and having me my pleasure. By 0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:05.680 the way, the book was very enjoyable. It's very you're 0:02:05.840 --> 0:02:09.359 you're a spiritual, philosophical cat and I found that really 0:02:09.760 --> 0:02:14.280 I am actually but thank you. Um. So, as a kid, 0:02:14.360 --> 0:02:18.440 I had acute dyslexia, but it wasn't called that then, 0:02:18.480 --> 0:02:21.040 it wasn't labeled as such. It was just like that 0:02:21.200 --> 0:02:24.760 learning disability. Yeah, learning disability. Let's put him back. I 0:02:24.919 --> 0:02:27.560 was the kid that would let the parents were talking 0:02:27.560 --> 0:02:32.200 about every night, let's put him back, kid um. But 0:02:32.240 --> 0:02:34.519 it was but it was really just you know, the 0:02:35.680 --> 0:02:38.480 root of that was that I had no ability to read. 0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:43.320 I couldn't read one word. I couldn't even sequence a sentence. 0:02:43.360 --> 0:02:46.280 I mean I would be out way out of sequence 0:02:46.320 --> 0:02:49.639 and I'd often start from the wrong side and left 0:02:49.680 --> 0:02:52.839 to right issues. Also, I do I still have that. 0:02:53.320 --> 0:02:57.200 So I'll share some secrets with you. Discipline you can 0:02:57.919 --> 0:03:01.640 you can figure well once you're married, you know the Yeah, 0:03:01.680 --> 0:03:03.760 that was a big deal. But I remember taking my 0:03:03.880 --> 0:03:06.960 learners Permit test and left is the hand to make 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:09.000 the l. Every time the instructor would say make a 0:03:09.080 --> 0:03:11.400 right or left, I would go this, and he would say, 0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:13.400 what are you doing? I'm like, that's how the only 0:03:13.440 --> 0:03:16.120 way I know left from right? So so what did 0:03:16.160 --> 0:03:19.240 you do to overcome the reading issue? Well, I what 0:03:19.360 --> 0:03:24.120 I did was I avoided eye contact with all teachers 0:03:24.160 --> 0:03:27.280 all the time. They love that, No, they don't like 0:03:28.800 --> 0:03:33.400 avoided eye contact. It just became I did that because 0:03:33.480 --> 0:03:36.000 if you look at the teacher or or if your 0:03:36.040 --> 0:03:39.720 eyes are available in fact, then you'd get picked to 0:03:39.760 --> 0:03:43.080 answer the question or Brian, come to the come to 0:03:43.120 --> 0:03:46.800 the board, you know, the chalkboard. So I just didn't 0:03:46.840 --> 0:03:50.720 want any of those requests because I never had the answer, 0:03:50.800 --> 0:03:53.120 because it was always based on the material you were 0:03:53.160 --> 0:03:56.040 to have read. And I was incapable of reading. And 0:03:56.080 --> 0:03:58.080 I had him Mr. Paula boy who was teaching me 0:03:58.080 --> 0:04:01.440 how to read theoretically, but it was possible for impossible 0:04:01.480 --> 0:04:06.160 for him. Um just because the way the symptoms and 0:04:06.400 --> 0:04:10.200 root of dyslexi itself. So anyway, nonetheless, I couldn't read 0:04:10.800 --> 0:04:15.480 about fourth I guess around fifth grade I started to 0:04:15.520 --> 0:04:18.479 be able to read a little. And but by the way, 0:04:18.520 --> 0:04:22.120 my grandmother had had one mentor in my life at 0:04:22.200 --> 0:04:26.760 the time. They're really believed in Brian. And she'd say, 0:04:26.960 --> 0:04:30.440 you have the gift of gab, you have curiosity, and 0:04:30.480 --> 0:04:33.480 you can talk about it. And and she'd be looking 0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:36.960 at my report cards over my shoulder that were straight f's, 0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:41.040 and I'm thinking, Wow, she believes in me. And she says, 0:04:41.080 --> 0:04:43.320 you're going all the way. She had all those isms, 0:04:43.839 --> 0:04:46.360 You're going all the way, think big b big, But 0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:49.960 there was no empirical evidence whatsoever that I was going 0:04:50.040 --> 0:04:52.400 to be the thing, big b big person. She saw 0:04:52.480 --> 0:04:57.919 something in you admother's love. This is she she saw 0:04:58.800 --> 0:05:02.920 the hints of this super for power called curiosity, and 0:05:03.000 --> 0:05:06.039 that that is valuable. And if you can use it 0:05:06.279 --> 0:05:09.720 exhaustively with human beings, you can learn a lot, gain 0:05:09.800 --> 0:05:14.360 insights and gain hearts. And if I said that right 0:05:14.360 --> 0:05:16.719 now to her, if she were alive, she would say, yes, 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:19.640 that's that's right. She's probably very very strong on the hearts. 0:05:20.640 --> 0:05:24.800 In any event, fifth grade, I could read, and now 0:05:24.839 --> 0:05:28.280 I realize if I can read, I can now look 0:05:28.279 --> 0:05:32.640 at people. So I started looking at people and and 0:05:32.640 --> 0:05:36.680 and using them also as as a secondary or primary 0:05:36.720 --> 0:05:39.800 textbook unto themselves. So I would look at you today, 0:05:39.800 --> 0:05:45.440 for example, I noticed so much about you, Barry, so much. Um, well, 0:05:45.560 --> 0:05:49.320 you move quickly, you think quickly, You're very helpful, you 0:05:49.680 --> 0:05:54.320 um incredibly smart. Well sound okay, So I don't want to, 0:05:54.440 --> 0:05:59.040 but I did, but I did notice quite a bit. 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:03.280 So um you're you're you are a judge, not with me, 0:06:03.360 --> 0:06:06.719 but you you tend to be a judge of human 0:06:06.800 --> 0:06:10.440 nature and human character. You do this in the in 0:06:10.480 --> 0:06:14.839 the way, this is my pop observation, in the in 0:06:14.880 --> 0:06:17.719 the material you select to make films, in the casting, 0:06:17.760 --> 0:06:21.160 I know everybody works with casting director uh and others, 0:06:21.160 --> 0:06:23.800 but it looks like that's a big part of of 0:06:24.040 --> 0:06:26.960 what you do. Well. I'm really I'm very good at 0:06:27.120 --> 0:06:32.479 prospecting for ideas that have that haven't been done, that 0:06:32.600 --> 0:06:39.200 have an authentic voice, and or there'll be an idea 0:06:39.360 --> 0:06:43.640 that's as simple as face to face. But I'm able 0:06:43.680 --> 0:06:48.120 to granulate the techniques of what face to face means 0:06:48.760 --> 0:06:52.159 in a way that's interesting and with stories, and that 0:06:52.279 --> 0:06:57.000 empowers people too, you know, get the promotion they're looking 0:06:57.000 --> 0:07:00.000 to get so that they can communicate it and they understand. 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:02.920 And the energy someone's energy, the energy you bring into 0:07:02.920 --> 0:07:07.120 a room that millisecond is the beginning of the very 0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:11.360 story or the Bryan story. And you don't want anything 0:07:11.400 --> 0:07:14.720 to deflect that present state of mind. And then you 0:07:14.760 --> 0:07:17.480 want to be You want to use your eye contact 0:07:17.480 --> 0:07:19.600 and I'm using this in a simple way. You want 0:07:19.600 --> 0:07:23.280 to use your eye contact as a as a tool 0:07:23.400 --> 0:07:29.360 abridge the WiFi into human connection itself. And if you're 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:33.560 really present with somebody like just you know, genuine interest, 0:07:34.240 --> 0:07:38.880 not transactional interest, but genuine interest, you gain so much. 0:07:39.600 --> 0:07:43.040 Every one of my movies A Beautiful Mind, Friday Night lights, 0:07:43.880 --> 0:07:48.240 empires television of course, um, any of the successful things 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:51.440 I ever did Splash, which you referenced, it's all birth 0:07:51.600 --> 0:07:58.520 out of human interaction, human connection, and which came into 0:07:58.520 --> 0:08:03.280 play because of eye contact. Then let's say I have 0:08:03.360 --> 0:08:07.160 those insights as I did on Let's use a beautiful mind. 0:08:07.880 --> 0:08:09.960 Then I need someone to pay for a beautiful mind, 0:08:11.040 --> 0:08:13.400 you know, because then they could box it up and say, oh, 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:16.080 it's a movie about schizophrenia. That's not going to be 0:08:16.080 --> 0:08:18.960 a popular or sexy subject, which of course I heard 0:08:19.160 --> 0:08:22.480 to some degree. Then what I have to do is 0:08:22.920 --> 0:08:26.240 use the powers of my observational skills that I've had 0:08:26.280 --> 0:08:31.240 in the past, and okay, which one? Which? How do 0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:35.640 I approach this so that I can make it not, um, 0:08:35.679 --> 0:08:40.040 a study of schizophrenia, but a how do I make 0:08:40.080 --> 0:08:43.240 it a story that's engaging to people? How do I 0:08:43.360 --> 0:08:48.960 make it cinematic? What perspective on this subject makes it 0:08:49.000 --> 0:08:53.119 worthy of somebody going out of their house, getting a babysitter, 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:56.120 whatever they have to do, find the parking spot, pay 0:08:56.160 --> 0:08:58.520 for the seat, and then I feel like they've had 0:08:58.520 --> 0:09:01.240 a great time. I'd rather had a great time. So 0:09:01.440 --> 0:09:04.040 I have to invent all of that stuff. Or I 0:09:04.080 --> 0:09:06.480 have to lead the invention of all of that stuff. 0:09:06.600 --> 0:09:09.720 The invention and and those things, in the case of 0:09:09.720 --> 0:09:15.120 a Beautiful Mind, came from the just simple observational power 0:09:15.920 --> 0:09:20.120 of meeting new and interesting people. So the story of 0:09:20.120 --> 0:09:24.240 a Beautiful Mind, what made it cinematic, was twenty years 0:09:24.320 --> 0:09:29.440 before Beautiful Mind ever existed. I met a woman named 0:09:29.520 --> 0:09:34.840 Veronica de Negre who was tortured in Chile. She was 0:09:37.280 --> 0:09:42.719 during the Pinochet regime, the dictatorship of Pinoget, and so 0:09:42.840 --> 0:09:47.800 she was sentenced to eighteen months of constant torture. And 0:09:47.840 --> 0:09:51.400 I had the opportunity to meet her through Sting, actually 0:09:51.440 --> 0:09:53.800 because I met him a year before that. Because I 0:09:53.840 --> 0:09:56.280 was so fascinating, like I thought, how does a teacher 0:09:56.360 --> 0:09:59.600 become a rock star? And so I constantly asked myself 0:09:59.600 --> 0:10:02.640 these questions. So I got to meet Sting a year later. 0:10:02.640 --> 0:10:05.240 Stings has come over the barbecue. I meet Veronica Danegre. 0:10:05.600 --> 0:10:07.640 I say, how do you say? How did you survive it? 0:10:08.240 --> 0:10:11.679 She said, I created an alternate narrative that I would 0:10:11.679 --> 0:10:14.680 live in, another story I would live in all of 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:17.880 the time. So I live and fully engaged in this 0:10:18.000 --> 0:10:22.400 other story that's not actually reality, because reality was torture, 0:10:22.960 --> 0:10:26.320 so that enables her to survive this eighteen months. And 0:10:26.360 --> 0:10:30.040 I thought, well, then I'm thinking, wow, that's very interesting. 0:10:30.559 --> 0:10:34.200 Twenty years later, I transport that insight that I gained 0:10:34.200 --> 0:10:39.160 from this non transactional conversation, and I thought, that insight 0:10:39.600 --> 0:10:44.520 completely applies to a schizophrenic mind. So if we start 0:10:44.600 --> 0:10:49.720 the movie through an alternate, alternate universe and alternate narrative 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:53.480 like another story, which we did, it's gonna be mind 0:10:53.520 --> 0:10:56.640 blowing to people. Now could disengage them, but it can 0:10:56.720 --> 0:10:59.480 also really engage them because it then it becomes kind 0:10:59.480 --> 0:11:02.840 of a three thriller, so it changes the entire genre 0:11:03.000 --> 0:11:06.840 of the experience. So therefore, instead of being a drama, 0:11:06.880 --> 0:11:09.800 it became a thriller and then a love story. And 0:11:09.840 --> 0:11:13.320 that's how he's John Nash survived the and coped with 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:16.840 his schizophrenia. I was gonna say, it's not about schizophrenia. 0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:19.520 It's a love story with one of the parties sort 0:11:19.520 --> 0:11:22.720 of descending into a bit of madness, and that's the 0:11:22.840 --> 0:11:26.600 driver of the plot. I have to talk about Beautiful 0:11:26.600 --> 0:11:29.840 Mind for a minute because I just watched a couple 0:11:29.880 --> 0:11:32.400 of weeks ago, the loudest voice in the room not 0:11:32.600 --> 0:11:39.920 only is Russell Crowe so fabulous in in A Beautiful Mind, spectacular, like, 0:11:40.040 --> 0:11:42.360 you can't believe this is the same guy. It's such 0:11:42.360 --> 0:11:45.880 a And then Jennifer Connelly, I fell in love with 0:11:45.920 --> 0:11:50.280 our in um career Opportunities, and she's just so amazing 0:11:50.960 --> 0:11:53.960 Beautiful Mind. She's just spectacular in it. She won an 0:11:53.960 --> 0:11:56.280 Oscar for that. She want an Oscar, as did you, 0:11:56.760 --> 0:11:59.920 And I said, I yes, yeah, UM, quite quite interesting. 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:02.480 It was great, great experience. And you've said this is 0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:07.040 your this is your favorite film, it's certainly, yeah, probably 0:12:07.040 --> 0:12:09.240 my favorite film. I may I have several that I 0:12:09.320 --> 0:12:11.480 really like a lot, but A Beautiful Mind is probably 0:12:11.520 --> 0:12:15.920 my favorite film because it triumphed in so many categories. 0:12:15.960 --> 0:12:19.280 I mean it, it became a vehicle of a message 0:12:19.320 --> 0:12:22.400 that mattered to me, which was, let's look at people 0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:26.200 directly and and treat people as human beings and try 0:12:26.240 --> 0:12:29.800 to understand them and not not apply an immediate bias. 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:31.920 And I was one of those people. There's no caricatures 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:34.720 in that film at all. Yeah, And I wanted to 0:12:34.760 --> 0:12:39.200 help destigmatize mental disability so that when you were here 0:12:39.240 --> 0:12:41.120 in New York you see people in the street, they're 0:12:41.200 --> 0:12:43.640 yelling in the middle of the street, or they're screaming 0:12:43.640 --> 0:12:48.120 at a store window. And let's not just disregard them immediately. 0:12:48.200 --> 0:12:51.400 I mean, I mean, let's try to understand that they 0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:55.120 may be bipolar, they may be schizophrenic, they have issues, 0:12:55.160 --> 0:13:01.680 and and basically compassion is so powerful, so portant to success. Really, 0:13:01.760 --> 0:13:05.000 empathy is really important to success. I've been able to 0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:08.199 sell and raise lots of money for lots of movies, 0:13:08.320 --> 0:13:12.719 billions of dollars for movie, for movies which are really ideas. 0:13:13.080 --> 0:13:16.760 But similar to a startup, like say, okay, let's do Airbnb. 0:13:17.080 --> 0:13:19.880 You know they're not that different. You know, they don't 0:13:19.880 --> 0:13:23.239 make a startup. It's entrepreneurial. You have to bring in investors, 0:13:23.280 --> 0:13:26.000 you have to bring in managers. It's it's very parallel 0:13:26.360 --> 0:13:30.880 to running a new tech startup exactly. And it it 0:13:31.000 --> 0:13:35.440 can fail in an evening, or it can succeed or 0:13:35.480 --> 0:13:37.960 have life, and you pump more life into it. And 0:13:38.040 --> 0:13:41.360 it could be a beautiful mind for example, quite quite fascinating. 0:13:41.520 --> 0:13:44.160 But you really have to be in order to do 0:13:44.360 --> 0:13:48.439 anything well. You like, get the raise, raise the hundred 0:13:48.480 --> 0:13:53.280 million dollars, find your wife, my me, finding my wife. 0:13:53.320 --> 0:13:56.960 You have to be president open minded. So you do 0:13:57.000 --> 0:14:00.439 a lot of work that's been recognized and and awarded 0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:05.040 and rewarded. Tell us a little bit about your process. 0:14:05.120 --> 0:14:08.199 How do you decide what films you want to produce? 0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:10.760 Is it the business side? Is it things you want 0:14:10.800 --> 0:14:15.000 to see? What? What is your process? Like? Okay, because 0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:20.840 my first success was in nineteen four about a mermaid 0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:25.920 Splash Splash, and it's it's really that became that became 0:14:26.040 --> 0:14:29.720 very helpful in the way I would start this journey. 0:14:29.840 --> 0:14:34.840 So basically, both the people and the process, or that 0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:38.560 the hundreds of people that turned down a mermaid movie 0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:40.960 because it sounded so stupid to them, because that's the 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:43.560 stupidest idea. It's like there's no such thing as a 0:14:43.560 --> 0:14:47.640 mermaid or it's just that the dumb idea. What you 0:14:47.800 --> 0:14:50.840 what you learn is that first of all, nobody really 0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:55.200 knows and nobody really knows the internal heartbeat of something, 0:14:55.640 --> 0:14:58.840 particularly when it's got a you know, a big premise 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:02.040 at the beginning of it. So the fact that I 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:05.080 could do a dumb idea and have it be really 0:15:05.080 --> 0:15:09.000 successful meant that I should just do things that I 0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:12.840 believe in. That's that's the William Goldman quote about Hollywood, 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:15.600 nobody knows anything. Who's a friend of mine? Who? Really? 0:15:16.680 --> 0:15:21.880 I love the book um Confessions of a Screenwriter or 0:15:21.880 --> 0:15:25.080 something like that. That's right. So he describes how everybody 0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:28.600 passed on Star Wars, everybody passed on Raiders e T. 0:15:29.560 --> 0:15:31.800 So how do you are you relying on your gut? 0:15:31.880 --> 0:15:34.640 What are you doing to I was something by the way, 0:15:34.680 --> 0:15:37.560 like Splash, where you're working with Ron Howard, who you 0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:40.800 obviously have a partnership with. You work with Tom Hanks, 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:43.160 who you've done multiple things. That was his first movie, 0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:45.840 of course. Oh well, he had come off of the television, 0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:49.000 did his TV series called Buddies. But we, frankly we 0:15:49.080 --> 0:15:51.560 discovered him and put him in his first movie and 0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:54.800 that worked up pretty well. Everybody, Well, we're all, we've 0:15:54.920 --> 0:15:57.600 we've I think I've made seven movies with ks. Now, 0:15:57.920 --> 0:16:02.800 he's quite delightful. He he's brilliant, brilliant guy, brilliant actor, 0:16:03.280 --> 0:16:08.520 a brilliant A selection process for for movies or television 0:16:09.080 --> 0:16:13.120 is unbelievably great. So what is your process? What is 0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:16.600 your selection process? How do you figure out what you're 0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:20.240 interested in making? I bomb You'll relate to this, I 0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:26.760 Bombard myself with information all the time. I make a 0:16:26.800 --> 0:16:28.600 point to go out of my way and out of 0:16:28.640 --> 0:16:33.200 my comfort zone to meet new people every day, from 0:16:33.320 --> 0:16:36.520 Uber drivers to Barista's until you saw me over there 0:16:36.520 --> 0:16:39.360 with the water getting your water, waiting to talk to 0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:42.840 someone who's just some some stranger, and I just I 0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:49.960 operate on I trust that I will constantly disrupt my 0:16:50.000 --> 0:16:55.840 comfort zone by trying to conduct a conversation with some 0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:58.440 someone that's an expert in something that I'm not. So 0:16:58.480 --> 0:17:01.240 then I have to get through that cha lounge, you know, 0:17:01.360 --> 0:17:04.439 the challenge of the language of physics. You describe that 0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:07.400 in the book that you made a conscious decision to say, 0:17:07.480 --> 0:17:10.520 let me find someone from outside of my fields and 0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:14.240 have a conversation with them. What what motivated that? That's 0:17:14.240 --> 0:17:18.600 really not a very common approach. No, it's it's not 0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:23.560 um what motivated is? I asked myself what seemed to 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:27.360 be a rhetorical question when I graduated college USC and 0:17:27.760 --> 0:17:29.840 it was a very good school. But I said to myself, 0:17:29.880 --> 0:17:33.600 like the day I graduated, what did I learn? Did 0:17:33.640 --> 0:17:36.560 I learn anything? And I thought, I'm not sure I 0:17:36.600 --> 0:17:40.840 really learned anything. And then I thought, what, well, what 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:45.720 did I learn? I continue to assault these primary universal questions, 0:17:46.080 --> 0:17:51.440 the simple questions, and you just keep assaulting. I thought, well, 0:17:51.480 --> 0:17:53.639 I think I what I really learned for sure is 0:17:53.720 --> 0:17:58.040 how to is I learned how to cope, survive, and 0:17:58.160 --> 0:18:02.119 collaborate in a bigger population of people, because that was 0:18:02.160 --> 0:18:04.240 a certainty I went. I grew up in I was 0:18:04.280 --> 0:18:07.160 a middle class kid, went to a small schools prior 0:18:07.200 --> 0:18:10.639 to that. This was a bigger school. And I succeeded 0:18:10.680 --> 0:18:15.760 in this bigger school academically and socially and culturally. But 0:18:15.800 --> 0:18:17.919 I found the whole thing an interesting kind of challenge. 0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:20.680 So I succeeded at that part, and then I thought 0:18:20.720 --> 0:18:22.960 to myself, there's got to be a professor or a 0:18:22.960 --> 0:18:26.359 class a really really you know, grabbed me. There was. 0:18:26.640 --> 0:18:30.920 There was a doctor Milton Walpen, who taught this very 0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:38.240 popular class, a four hundred class um on abnormal psychology, 0:18:38.640 --> 0:18:42.160 which was very interesting to people because okay, so it's 0:18:42.160 --> 0:18:45.040 a very big class. I never met the teacher, professor, 0:18:45.080 --> 0:18:47.520 because it's a class of three kids. And I thought, 0:18:47.520 --> 0:18:51.000 I'm gonna try to go meet Wilton, Milton Walpen, and 0:18:51.119 --> 0:18:53.560 so I was very persistent in trying to meet a 0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:59.159 professor at USC that and I'd already graduated. He didn't acknowledge, 0:18:59.200 --> 0:19:02.560 you know, didn't respond any of my UM letters. So 0:19:02.640 --> 0:19:05.080 I decided I'm gonna go wait for him outside of 0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:08.359 a summer school class. I waited. He says me, didn't 0:19:08.359 --> 0:19:11.120 you graduate? I said, I did, But I was really 0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:14.800 impressed with your of the class and you're conducting of 0:19:14.800 --> 0:19:16.480 the class. I really wanted to just have a five 0:19:16.520 --> 0:19:21.120 minute coffee conversation. I turned that into an hour conversation, 0:19:22.000 --> 0:19:24.360 and I learned a lot. I learned a lot more 0:19:24.520 --> 0:19:26.680 even in the hour. I thought, Wow, I learned more 0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:29.080 in the hour than I did in the whole class. 0:19:29.119 --> 0:19:31.600 And I like that class so that I can do 0:19:31.640 --> 0:19:34.920 this with other people. It just made me feel like, well, 0:19:35.320 --> 0:19:37.800 this is possible. And I was just a little nobody. 0:19:37.800 --> 0:19:40.080 I didn't even have a job. I was just you know. 0:19:40.160 --> 0:19:41.880 A couple of weeks later, I finally got a law 0:19:41.920 --> 0:19:45.520 clerk luck er job. Sorry, which, by the way, I love. 0:19:45.720 --> 0:19:47.840 I love the story how you got that job at 0:19:47.840 --> 0:19:52.920 Warner Brothers. Tell the story. So basically, I met with will. 0:19:53.240 --> 0:19:55.280 I had the meeting that I just referred to a 0:19:55.359 --> 0:19:59.280 Dr Milton Walpen, and then I'm in my little apartment 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:03.560 complex and Ocean Avenue, and in the apartment complex, I 0:20:03.600 --> 0:20:06.480 overhear these three uh law school grads because I was 0:20:06.520 --> 0:20:10.040 scheduled to go to law school USC. I hear them 0:20:10.080 --> 0:20:13.439 talking about, Wow, you know what a summer. The one 0:20:13.480 --> 0:20:16.439 guy says, oh, I had the quishiest, easiest job. So 0:20:16.520 --> 0:20:19.320 it immediately got my interest because I needed a job. 0:20:19.520 --> 0:20:22.720 And if it's gonna be quishy and easy, fantastic, even better, 0:20:23.000 --> 0:20:26.760 let's go. So I thought, okay, So I pulled the 0:20:26.800 --> 0:20:29.560 window back so I could really here through the screen 0:20:29.600 --> 0:20:33.160 and drew the drapes so they couldn't see me with 0:20:33.160 --> 0:20:36.119 my ear to the window to the screen. And so 0:20:36.200 --> 0:20:38.840 the guy starts talking about the job. It's the legal 0:20:38.880 --> 0:20:42.840 department of Warner Brothers. Blah blah. I get the band's name. Doctor. 0:20:42.920 --> 0:20:45.520 His name was Peter Connect, who ran the legal department. 0:20:45.800 --> 0:20:48.359 He started with Jack Warner. He's he's probably a d 0:20:49.160 --> 0:20:52.639 And I called and got a meeting that afternoon with 0:20:52.680 --> 0:20:55.359 Peter Connect and got the job at three fifteen, saying, 0:20:55.680 --> 0:20:57.879 I hear you have an opening for an intern. Yeah, 0:20:58.200 --> 0:21:01.119 I said, yeah, I'm scheduled to go to USC law school. 0:21:01.160 --> 0:21:03.439 I'm a graduate. I hear you need a law clerk 0:21:03.720 --> 0:21:05.800 love to be that person right now, and he said, 0:21:05.920 --> 0:21:10.240 you're hired, just like that, just like that. Unbelievable. Let's 0:21:10.320 --> 0:21:14.680 talk a little bit about how human connections have helped 0:21:14.720 --> 0:21:18.040 you in your career. In your early life, you weren't 0:21:18.119 --> 0:21:22.399 much of a reader, but you learned that conversations with 0:21:22.440 --> 0:21:29.120 people became crucial to your intellectual growth and professional growth. 0:21:29.440 --> 0:21:32.280 How did you reach this insight and how has it 0:21:32.840 --> 0:21:35.800 um come come out even even to this day. How 0:21:35.840 --> 0:21:38.280 does it matter? Well, I mean the techniques of which 0:21:38.320 --> 0:21:41.919 are are embedded in these stories in this book that 0:21:42.040 --> 0:21:44.359 we're talking about, called Face to Face the Art of 0:21:44.440 --> 0:21:48.920 Human Connection. Because you can't really have, you can't get 0:21:49.240 --> 0:21:53.560 you can't get promoted without looking at somebody connecting. You're 0:21:53.600 --> 0:21:55.600 never gonna be able to raise a hundred million dollars, 0:21:55.600 --> 0:21:58.159 which I would do often to make a movie. Is 0:21:58.160 --> 0:21:59.720 that what it takes now to make a film that 0:21:59.800 --> 0:22:02.679 much money? Well, because movies are now sort of event 0:22:02.840 --> 0:22:08.719 oriented there, the hundred million dollar movie, or a hundred 0:22:08.720 --> 0:22:11.720 plus hundred to two hundred million dollar movie is actually 0:22:11.800 --> 0:22:15.280 easier to accomplish than the forty million dollar movie. Overseas 0:22:15.400 --> 0:22:18.040 rights and a broader audience yeah, you have to go 0:22:18.160 --> 0:22:22.040 for a broader audience. So but but I have always 0:22:22.040 --> 0:22:26.840 tried to have stories that had universal themes. So we 0:22:26.840 --> 0:22:30.240 were talking about a Beautiful Mind, which which we won 0:22:30.280 --> 0:22:33.840 an Oscar for or I did end it um. And 0:22:33.880 --> 0:22:37.600 the thing about that is that the universal theme wasn't 0:22:37.800 --> 0:22:41.720 really about schizophrenia, and it wasn't about winning a Nobel prize. 0:22:42.119 --> 0:22:45.200 It was much more about love that loved. The power 0:22:45.359 --> 0:22:50.800 of love is which is a universal force gets you 0:22:51.280 --> 0:22:54.560 can can get you through a locked In this case, 0:22:54.600 --> 0:22:58.639 there was schizophrenia and then his ability to win a 0:22:58.640 --> 0:23:02.400 Nobel Prize in economic So basically, I found that by 0:23:02.520 --> 0:23:05.800 taking the opportunity to look at people when I walked 0:23:05.800 --> 0:23:08.199 through the street in New York as opposed to my phone. 0:23:08.760 --> 0:23:10.879 Because I can look at my phone all the time, 0:23:11.000 --> 0:23:14.720 that's always gonna be there, and I love my phone, uh, 0:23:14.800 --> 0:23:16.719 and it provided me with so much information. But if 0:23:16.760 --> 0:23:19.399 I'm walking through the street in New York, I'm looking 0:23:19.440 --> 0:23:23.439 at people and I'm trying to but feel or into it, 0:23:23.560 --> 0:23:26.200 like what's going on in the world right now. So 0:23:26.359 --> 0:23:31.760 I bombard myself with information that I could read on 0:23:31.760 --> 0:23:34.760 my iPhone when I'm at home. Or you know or 0:23:35.080 --> 0:23:38.480 in my office or iPad. But nonetheless I I thrive 0:23:38.520 --> 0:23:42.600 on human connection because human connection is you feel people's hearts, 0:23:42.680 --> 0:23:45.720 and you don't feel their heart on an iPhone and 0:23:45.720 --> 0:23:48.000 they don't feel your heart. And the only way to 0:23:48.119 --> 0:23:53.120 move people enough to promote you or to move or 0:23:53.200 --> 0:23:56.480 in the case of romance, move the girl to want 0:23:56.560 --> 0:23:59.240 to like you or be with you or see something 0:23:59.600 --> 0:24:02.960 in try particply valuable is through their heart, through a spirit. 0:24:03.600 --> 0:24:06.080 It's just that's just really the way it works. And 0:24:06.160 --> 0:24:08.920 so whether you're in technology or whatever the thing you're doing, 0:24:09.600 --> 0:24:12.320 you have to have face to face connection otherwise you're 0:24:12.400 --> 0:24:15.199 just not going to advance your cause. So in the 0:24:15.240 --> 0:24:18.600 book you describe and pardon me if I'm confusing the 0:24:18.600 --> 0:24:20.960 two books books, because it's a bit of a blar. 0:24:21.160 --> 0:24:23.879