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Speaker 1: This is Master's in Business with Barry Riddholts on Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 1: This week on the podcast What Can I Say? I

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Speaker 1: have an extra special guest. His name is Brian Grazer.

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Speaker 1: If you have any interest in the entertainment industry, if

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Speaker 1: you're a film buff, if you watch any of the

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Speaker 1: best television and films produced over the past thirty years,

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Speaker 1: well then you're definitely familiar with his work and you

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Speaker 1: will find this to be an absolutely fantastic conversation, fascinating

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Speaker 1: and informative. With no further ado, my interview of Brian Grazer.

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Speaker 1: This is Master's in Business with Barry Ridholts on Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 1: My extra special guest this week is Brian Grazer. He

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Speaker 1: is the co founder of Imagine Entertainment with his partner

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Speaker 1: Ron Howard. He is the producer of such seminal films

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Speaker 1: as Splash, Backdraft, Apollo thirteen, Liar, Liar eight Mile. His

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Speaker 1: television offerings include such things as Sports Night twenty four

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Speaker 1: and The cult Can I call it a cult favorite?

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Speaker 1: Arrested Development it is. His films have generated more than

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Speaker 1: thirteen and a half billion dollars in revenue, and his

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Speaker 1: television work has done probably twice as much as that.

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Speaker 1: The Producers Guild of America awarded him the David ol

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Speaker 1: Selznick Lifetime Achievement Award in two thousand and one. He

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Speaker 1: is the author of A Curious Mind and most recently,

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Speaker 1: Face to Face The Art of Human Connection. Brian Grazer,

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Bloomberg. Thank you glad to be here Bloomberg.

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Speaker 1: Rather and with Barry and I helped me get all

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Speaker 1: my food items for the morning. We we got you

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Speaker 1: ready to go. So I'm looking deeply into your eyes.

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Speaker 1: And in the book you explain how as a kid

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Speaker 1: that was a problem. Looking people directly face to face

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Speaker 1: was a challenge. How did that manifest itself and how

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Speaker 1: did you overcome that? Okay, so, um and thank you

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Speaker 1: for reading the book and having me my pleasure. By

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Speaker 1: the way, the book was very enjoyable. It's very you're

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Speaker 1: you're a spiritual, philosophical cat and I found that really

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Speaker 1: I am actually but thank you. Um. So, as a kid,

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Speaker 1: I had acute dyslexia, but it wasn't called that then,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't labeled as such. It was just like that

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Speaker 1: learning disability. Yeah, learning disability. Let's put him back. I

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Speaker 1: was the kid that would let the parents were talking

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Speaker 1: about every night, let's put him back, kid um. But

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Speaker 1: it was but it was really just you know, the

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Speaker 1: root of that was that I had no ability to read.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't read one word. I couldn't even sequence a sentence.

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Speaker 1: I mean I would be out way out of sequence

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Speaker 1: and I'd often start from the wrong side and left

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Speaker 1: to right issues. Also, I do I still have that.

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Speaker 1: So I'll share some secrets with you. Discipline you can

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Speaker 1: you can figure well once you're married, you know the Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was a big deal. But I remember taking my

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Speaker 1: learners Permit test and left is the hand to make

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Speaker 1: the l. Every time the instructor would say make a

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Speaker 1: right or left, I would go this, and he would say,

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Speaker 1: what are you doing? I'm like, that's how the only

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Speaker 1: way I know left from right? So so what did

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Speaker 1: you do to overcome the reading issue? Well, I what

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Speaker 1: I did was I avoided eye contact with all teachers

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Speaker 1: all the time. They love that, No, they don't like

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Speaker 1: avoided eye contact. It just became I did that because

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Speaker 1: if you look at the teacher or or if your

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Speaker 1: eyes are available in fact, then you'd get picked to

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Speaker 1: answer the question or Brian, come to the come to

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Speaker 1: the board, you know, the chalkboard. So I just didn't

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Speaker 1: want any of those requests because I never had the answer,

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Speaker 1: because it was always based on the material you were

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Speaker 1: to have read. And I was incapable of reading. And

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Speaker 1: I had him Mr. Paula boy who was teaching me

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Speaker 1: how to read theoretically, but it was possible for impossible

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Speaker 1: for him. Um just because the way the symptoms and

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Speaker 1: root of dyslexi itself. So anyway, nonetheless, I couldn't read

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Speaker 1: about fourth I guess around fifth grade I started to

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Speaker 1: be able to read a little. And but by the way,

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Speaker 1: my grandmother had had one mentor in my life at

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Speaker 1: the time. They're really believed in Brian. And she'd say,

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Speaker 1: you have the gift of gab, you have curiosity, and

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Speaker 1: you can talk about it. And and she'd be looking

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Speaker 1: at my report cards over my shoulder that were straight f's,

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Speaker 1: and I'm thinking, Wow, she believes in me. And she says,

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Speaker 1: you're going all the way. She had all those isms,

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Speaker 1: You're going all the way, think big b big, But

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Speaker 1: there was no empirical evidence whatsoever that I was going

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Speaker 1: to be the thing, big b big person. She saw

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Speaker 1: something in you admother's love. This is she she saw

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Speaker 1: the hints of this super for power called curiosity, and

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Speaker 1: that that is valuable. And if you can use it

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Speaker 1: exhaustively with human beings, you can learn a lot, gain

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Speaker 1: insights and gain hearts. And if I said that right

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Speaker 1: now to her, if she were alive, she would say, yes,

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Speaker 1: that's that's right. She's probably very very strong on the hearts.

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Speaker 1: In any event, fifth grade, I could read, and now

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Speaker 1: I realize if I can read, I can now look

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Speaker 1: at people. So I started looking at people and and

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Speaker 1: and using them also as as a secondary or primary

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Speaker 1: textbook unto themselves. So I would look at you today,

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Speaker 1: for example, I noticed so much about you, Barry, so much. Um, well,

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Speaker 1: you move quickly, you think quickly, You're very helpful, you

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Speaker 1: um incredibly smart. Well sound okay, So I don't want to,

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Speaker 1: but I did, but I did notice quite a bit.

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Speaker 1: So um you're you're you are a judge, not with me,

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Speaker 1: but you you tend to be a judge of human

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Speaker 1: nature and human character. You do this in the in

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Speaker 1: the way, this is my pop observation, in the in

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Speaker 1: the material you select to make films, in the casting,

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Speaker 1: I know everybody works with casting director uh and others,

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Speaker 1: but it looks like that's a big part of of

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Speaker 1: what you do. Well. I'm really I'm very good at

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Speaker 1: prospecting for ideas that have that haven't been done, that

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Speaker 1: have an authentic voice, and or there'll be an idea

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Speaker 1: that's as simple as face to face. But I'm able

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Speaker 1: to granulate the techniques of what face to face means

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Speaker 1: in a way that's interesting and with stories, and that

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Speaker 1: empowers people too, you know, get the promotion they're looking

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Speaker 1: to get so that they can communicate it and they understand.

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Speaker 1: And the energy someone's energy, the energy you bring into

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Speaker 1: a room that millisecond is the beginning of the very

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Speaker 1: story or the Bryan story. And you don't want anything

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Speaker 1: to deflect that present state of mind. And then you

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Speaker 1: want to be You want to use your eye contact

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Speaker 1: and I'm using this in a simple way. You want

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Speaker 1: to use your eye contact as a as a tool

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Speaker 1: abridge the WiFi into human connection itself. And if you're

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Speaker 1: really present with somebody like just you know, genuine interest,

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Speaker 1: not transactional interest, but genuine interest, you gain so much.

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Speaker 1: Every one of my movies A Beautiful Mind, Friday Night lights,

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Speaker 1: empires television of course, um, any of the successful things

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Speaker 1: I ever did Splash, which you referenced, it's all birth

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Speaker 1: out of human interaction, human connection, and which came into

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Speaker 1: play because of eye contact. Then let's say I have

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Speaker 1: those insights as I did on Let's use a beautiful mind.

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Speaker 1: Then I need someone to pay for a beautiful mind,

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Speaker 1: you know, because then they could box it up and say, oh,

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Speaker 1: it's a movie about schizophrenia. That's not going to be

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Speaker 1: a popular or sexy subject, which of course I heard

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Speaker 1: to some degree. Then what I have to do is

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Speaker 1: use the powers of my observational skills that I've had

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Speaker 1: in the past, and okay, which one? Which? How do

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Speaker 1: I approach this so that I can make it not, um,

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Speaker 1: a study of schizophrenia, but a how do I make

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Speaker 1: it a story that's engaging to people? How do I

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Speaker 1: make it cinematic? What perspective on this subject makes it

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Speaker 1: worthy of somebody going out of their house, getting a babysitter,

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Speaker 1: whatever they have to do, find the parking spot, pay

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Speaker 1: for the seat, and then I feel like they've had

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Speaker 1: a great time. I'd rather had a great time. So

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Speaker 1: I have to invent all of that stuff. Or I

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Speaker 1: have to lead the invention of all of that stuff.

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Speaker 1: The invention and and those things, in the case of

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Speaker 1: a Beautiful Mind, came from the just simple observational power

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Speaker 1: of meeting new and interesting people. So the story of

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Speaker 1: a Beautiful Mind, what made it cinematic, was twenty years

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Speaker 1: before Beautiful Mind ever existed. I met a woman named

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Speaker 1: Veronica de Negre who was tortured in Chile. She was

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Speaker 1: during the Pinochet regime, the dictatorship of Pinoget, and so

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Speaker 1: she was sentenced to eighteen months of constant torture. And

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Speaker 1: I had the opportunity to meet her through Sting, actually

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Speaker 1: because I met him a year before that. Because I

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Speaker 1: was so fascinating, like I thought, how does a teacher

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Speaker 1: become a rock star? And so I constantly asked myself

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Speaker 1: these questions. So I got to meet Sting a year later.

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Speaker 1: Stings has come over the barbecue. I meet Veronica Danegre.

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Speaker 1: I say, how do you say? How did you survive it?

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Speaker 1: She said, I created an alternate narrative that I would

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Speaker 1: live in, another story I would live in all of

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Speaker 1: the time. So I live and fully engaged in this

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Speaker 1: other story that's not actually reality, because reality was torture,

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Speaker 1: so that enables her to survive this eighteen months. And

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Speaker 1: I thought, well, then I'm thinking, wow, that's very interesting.

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Speaker 1: Twenty years later, I transport that insight that I gained

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Speaker 1: from this non transactional conversation, and I thought, that insight

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Speaker 1: completely applies to a schizophrenic mind. So if we start

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Speaker 1: the movie through an alternate, alternate universe and alternate narrative

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Speaker 1: like another story, which we did, it's gonna be mind

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Speaker 1: blowing to people. Now could disengage them, but it can

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Speaker 1: also really engage them because it then it becomes kind

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Speaker 1: of a three thriller, so it changes the entire genre

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Speaker 1: of the experience. So therefore, instead of being a drama,

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Speaker 1: it became a thriller and then a love story. And

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Speaker 1: that's how he's John Nash survived the and coped with

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Speaker 1: his schizophrenia. I was gonna say, it's not about schizophrenia.

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Speaker 1: It's a love story with one of the parties sort

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Speaker 1: of descending into a bit of madness, and that's the

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Speaker 1: driver of the plot. I have to talk about Beautiful

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Speaker 1: Mind for a minute because I just watched a couple

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Speaker 1: of weeks ago, the loudest voice in the room not

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Speaker 1: only is Russell Crowe so fabulous in in A Beautiful Mind, spectacular, like,

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Speaker 1: you can't believe this is the same guy. It's such

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Speaker 1: a And then Jennifer Connelly, I fell in love with

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Speaker 1: our in um career Opportunities, and she's just so amazing

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Speaker 1: Beautiful Mind. She's just spectacular in it. She won an

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Speaker 1: Oscar for that. She want an Oscar, as did you,

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Speaker 1: And I said, I yes, yeah, UM, quite quite interesting.

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Speaker 1: It was great, great experience. And you've said this is

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Speaker 1: your this is your favorite film, it's certainly, yeah, probably

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Speaker 1: my favorite film. I may I have several that I

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Speaker 1: really like a lot, but A Beautiful Mind is probably

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Speaker 1: my favorite film because it triumphed in so many categories.

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Speaker 1: I mean it, it became a vehicle of a message

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Speaker 1: that mattered to me, which was, let's look at people

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Speaker 1: directly and and treat people as human beings and try

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Speaker 1: to understand them and not not apply an immediate bias.

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Speaker 1: And I was one of those people. There's no caricatures

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Speaker 1: in that film at all. Yeah, And I wanted to

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Speaker 1: help destigmatize mental disability so that when you were here

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Speaker 1: in New York you see people in the street, they're

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Speaker 1: yelling in the middle of the street, or they're screaming

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Speaker 1: at a store window. And let's not just disregard them immediately.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, let's try to understand that they

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Speaker 1: may be bipolar, they may be schizophrenic, they have issues,

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Speaker 1: and and basically compassion is so powerful, so portant to success. Really,

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Speaker 1: empathy is really important to success. I've been able to

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Speaker 1: sell and raise lots of money for lots of movies,

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Speaker 1: billions of dollars for movie, for movies which are really ideas.

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Speaker 1: But similar to a startup, like say, okay, let's do Airbnb.

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Speaker 1: You know they're not that different. You know, they don't

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Speaker 1: make a startup. It's entrepreneurial. You have to bring in investors,

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Speaker 1: you have to bring in managers. It's it's very parallel

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Speaker 1: to running a new tech startup exactly. And it it

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Speaker 1: can fail in an evening, or it can succeed or

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Speaker 1: have life, and you pump more life into it. And

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Speaker 1: it could be a beautiful mind for example, quite quite fascinating.

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Speaker 1: But you really have to be in order to do

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Speaker 1: anything well. You like, get the raise, raise the hundred

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Speaker 1: million dollars, find your wife, my me, finding my wife.

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Speaker 1: You have to be president open minded. So you do

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Speaker 1: a lot of work that's been recognized and and awarded

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Speaker 1: and rewarded. Tell us a little bit about your process.

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Speaker 1: How do you decide what films you want to produce?

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Speaker 1: Is it the business side? Is it things you want

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Speaker 1: to see? What? What is your process? Like? Okay, because

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Speaker 1: my first success was in nineteen four about a mermaid

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Speaker 1: Splash Splash, and it's it's really that became that became

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Speaker 1: very helpful in the way I would start this journey.

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Speaker 1: So basically, both the people and the process, or that

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Speaker 1: the hundreds of people that turned down a mermaid movie

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Speaker 1: because it sounded so stupid to them, because that's the

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Speaker 1: stupidest idea. It's like there's no such thing as a

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Speaker 1: mermaid or it's just that the dumb idea. What you

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Speaker 1: what you learn is that first of all, nobody really

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Speaker 1: knows and nobody really knows the internal heartbeat of something,

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Speaker 1: particularly when it's got a you know, a big premise

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Speaker 1: at the beginning of it. So the fact that I

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Speaker 1: could do a dumb idea and have it be really

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Speaker 1: successful meant that I should just do things that I

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Speaker 1: believe in. That's that's the William Goldman quote about Hollywood,

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Speaker 1: nobody knows anything. Who's a friend of mine? Who? Really?

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Speaker 1: I love the book um Confessions of a Screenwriter or

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Speaker 1: something like that. That's right. So he describes how everybody

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Speaker 1: passed on Star Wars, everybody passed on Raiders e T.

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Speaker 1: So how do you are you relying on your gut?

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Speaker 1: What are you doing to I was something by the way,

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Speaker 1: like Splash, where you're working with Ron Howard, who you

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Speaker 1: obviously have a partnership with. You work with Tom Hanks,

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Speaker 1: who you've done multiple things. That was his first movie,

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Speaker 1: of course. Oh well, he had come off of the television,

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Speaker 1: did his TV series called Buddies. But we, frankly we

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Speaker 1: discovered him and put him in his first movie and

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Speaker 1: that worked up pretty well. Everybody, Well, we're all, we've

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Speaker 1: we've I think I've made seven movies with ks. Now,

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Speaker 1: he's quite delightful. He he's brilliant, brilliant guy, brilliant actor,

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Speaker 1: a brilliant A selection process for for movies or television

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Speaker 1: is unbelievably great. So what is your process? What is

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Speaker 1: your selection process? How do you figure out what you're

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Speaker 1: interested in making? I bomb You'll relate to this, I

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Speaker 1: Bombard myself with information all the time. I make a

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Speaker 1: point to go out of my way and out of

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Speaker 1: my comfort zone to meet new people every day, from

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Speaker 1: Uber drivers to Barista's until you saw me over there

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Speaker 1: with the water getting your water, waiting to talk to

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Speaker 1: someone who's just some some stranger, and I just I

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Speaker 1: operate on I trust that I will constantly disrupt my

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Speaker 1: comfort zone by trying to conduct a conversation with some

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Speaker 1: someone that's an expert in something that I'm not. So

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Speaker 1: then I have to get through that cha lounge, you know,

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Speaker 1: the challenge of the language of physics. You describe that

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Speaker 1: in the book that you made a conscious decision to say,

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Speaker 1: let me find someone from outside of my fields and

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Speaker 1: have a conversation with them. What what motivated that? That's

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Speaker 1: really not a very common approach. No, it's it's not

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Speaker 1: um what motivated is? I asked myself what seemed to

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Speaker 1: be a rhetorical question when I graduated college USC and

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Speaker 1: it was a very good school. But I said to myself,

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Speaker 1: like the day I graduated, what did I learn? Did

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Speaker 1: I learn anything? And I thought, I'm not sure I

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Speaker 1: really learned anything. And then I thought, what, well, what

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Speaker 1: did I learn? I continue to assault these primary universal questions,

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Speaker 1: the simple questions, and you just keep assaulting. I thought, well,

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Speaker 1: I think I what I really learned for sure is

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Speaker 1: how to is I learned how to cope, survive, and

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Speaker 1: collaborate in a bigger population of people, because that was

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Speaker 1: a certainty I went. I grew up in I was

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Speaker 1: a middle class kid, went to a small schools prior

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Speaker 1: to that. This was a bigger school. And I succeeded

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Speaker 1: in this bigger school academically and socially and culturally. But

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Speaker 1: I found the whole thing an interesting kind of challenge.

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Speaker 1: So I succeeded at that part, and then I thought

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Speaker 1: to myself, there's got to be a professor or a

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Speaker 1: class a really really you know, grabbed me. There was.

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Speaker 1: There was a doctor Milton Walpen, who taught this very

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Speaker 1: popular class, a four hundred class um on abnormal psychology,

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Speaker 1: which was very interesting to people because okay, so it's

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Speaker 1: a very big class. I never met the teacher, professor,

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Speaker 1: because it's a class of three kids. And I thought,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna try to go meet Wilton, Milton Walpen, and

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Speaker 1: so I was very persistent in trying to meet a

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Speaker 1: professor at USC that and I'd already graduated. He didn't acknowledge,

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Speaker 1: you know, didn't respond any of my UM letters. So

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Speaker 1: I decided I'm gonna go wait for him outside of

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Speaker 1: a summer school class. I waited. He says me, didn't

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Speaker 1: you graduate? I said, I did, But I was really

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Speaker 1: impressed with your of the class and you're conducting of

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Speaker 1: the class. I really wanted to just have a five

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Speaker 1: minute coffee conversation. I turned that into an hour conversation,

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Speaker 1: and I learned a lot. I learned a lot more

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Speaker 1: even in the hour. I thought, Wow, I learned more

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Speaker 1: in the hour than I did in the whole class.

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Speaker 1: And I like that class so that I can do

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Speaker 1: this with other people. It just made me feel like, well,

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Speaker 1: this is possible. And I was just a little nobody.

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Speaker 1: I didn't even have a job. I was just you know.

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Speaker 1: A couple of weeks later, I finally got a law

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Speaker 1: clerk luck er job. Sorry, which, by the way, I love.

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Speaker 1: I love the story how you got that job at

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Speaker 1: Warner Brothers. Tell the story. So basically, I met with will.

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Speaker 1: I had the meeting that I just referred to a

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Speaker 1: Dr Milton Walpen, and then I'm in my little apartment

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Speaker 1: complex and Ocean Avenue, and in the apartment complex, I

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Speaker 1: overhear these three uh law school grads because I was

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Speaker 1: scheduled to go to law school USC. I hear them

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Speaker 1: talking about, Wow, you know what a summer. The one

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Speaker 1: guy says, oh, I had the quishiest, easiest job. So

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Speaker 1: it immediately got my interest because I needed a job.

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Speaker 1: And if it's gonna be quishy and easy, fantastic, even better,

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Speaker 1: let's go. So I thought, okay, So I pulled the

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Speaker 1: window back so I could really here through the screen

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Speaker 1: and drew the drapes so they couldn't see me with

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Speaker 1: my ear to the window to the screen. And so

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Speaker 1: the guy starts talking about the job. It's the legal

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Speaker 1: department of Warner Brothers. Blah blah. I get the band's name. Doctor.

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Speaker 1: His name was Peter Connect, who ran the legal department.

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Speaker 1: He started with Jack Warner. He's he's probably a d

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Speaker 1: And I called and got a meeting that afternoon with

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Speaker 1: Peter Connect and got the job at three fifteen, saying,

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Speaker 1: I hear you have an opening for an intern. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I said, yeah, I'm scheduled to go to USC law school.

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Speaker 1: I'm a graduate. I hear you need a law clerk

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Speaker 1: love to be that person right now, and he said,

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Speaker 1: you're hired, just like that, just like that. Unbelievable. Let's

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Speaker 1: talk a little bit about how human connections have helped

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Speaker 1: you in your career. In your early life, you weren't

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Speaker 1: much of a reader, but you learned that conversations with

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Speaker 1: people became crucial to your intellectual growth and professional growth.

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Speaker 1: How did you reach this insight and how has it

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Speaker 1: um come come out even even to this day. How

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Speaker 1: does it matter? Well, I mean the techniques of which

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Speaker 1: are are embedded in these stories in this book that

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Speaker 1: we're talking about, called Face to Face the Art of

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Speaker 1: Human Connection. Because you can't really have, you can't get

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Speaker 1: you can't get promoted without looking at somebody connecting. You're

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Speaker 1: never gonna be able to raise a hundred million dollars,

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Speaker 1: which I would do often to make a movie. Is

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Speaker 1: that what it takes now to make a film that

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Speaker 1: much money? Well, because movies are now sort of event

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Speaker 1: oriented there, the hundred million dollar movie, or a hundred

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Speaker 1: plus hundred to two hundred million dollar movie is actually

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Speaker 1: easier to accomplish than the forty million dollar movie. Overseas

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Speaker 1: rights and a broader audience yeah, you have to go

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Speaker 1: for a broader audience. So but but I have always

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Speaker 1: tried to have stories that had universal themes. So we

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Speaker 1: were talking about a Beautiful Mind, which which we won

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Speaker 1: an Oscar for or I did end it um. And

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Speaker 1: the thing about that is that the universal theme wasn't

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Speaker 1: really about schizophrenia, and it wasn't about winning a Nobel prize.

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Speaker 1: It was much more about love that loved. The power

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Speaker 1: of love is which is a universal force gets you

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Speaker 1: can can get you through a locked In this case,

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Speaker 1: there was schizophrenia and then his ability to win a

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Speaker 1: Nobel Prize in economic So basically, I found that by

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Speaker 1: taking the opportunity to look at people when I walked

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Speaker 1: through the street in New York as opposed to my phone.

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Speaker 1: Because I can look at my phone all the time,

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Speaker 1: that's always gonna be there, and I love my phone, uh,

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Speaker 1: and it provided me with so much information. But if

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Speaker 1: I'm walking through the street in New York, I'm looking

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Speaker 1: at people and I'm trying to but feel or into it,

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Speaker 1: like what's going on in the world right now. So

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Speaker 1: I bombard myself with information that I could read on

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Speaker 1: my iPhone when I'm at home. Or you know or

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Speaker 1: in my office or iPad. But nonetheless I I thrive

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Speaker 1: on human connection because human connection is you feel people's hearts,

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Speaker 1: and you don't feel their heart on an iPhone and

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Speaker 1: they don't feel your heart. And the only way to

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Speaker 1: move people enough to promote you or to move or

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Speaker 1: in the case of romance, move the girl to want

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Speaker 1: to like you or be with you or see something

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Speaker 1: in try particply valuable is through their heart, through a spirit.

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Speaker 1: It's just that's just really the way it works. And

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Speaker 1: so whether you're in technology or whatever the thing you're doing,

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Speaker 1: you have to have face to face connection otherwise you're

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Speaker 1: just not going to advance your cause. So in the

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Speaker 1: book you describe and pardon me if I'm confusing the

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Speaker 1: two books books, because it's a bit of a blar.

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Speaker 1: I've gone through a lot of your over and definitely

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00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:28,600
Speaker 1: so one is about curiosity. But then I realized unless

403
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Speaker 1: you look at somebody and and and and use face

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00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:38,359
Speaker 1: to face connection, there's no bridge into the possibility of

405
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:44,400
Speaker 1: exercising curiosity. So you can't really ask people questions and

406
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Speaker 1: have them share with you anything valuable unless you've looked.

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Speaker 1: You're looking at them because they have to be seen,

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Speaker 1: they have to feel like they're seen and what they're

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Speaker 1: and that what they have to say is valuable. So

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Speaker 1: let's let's talk about some of the communicate you discussed

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Speaker 1: in the books. Um, some people that you've engaged in

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Speaker 1: conversation and it's changed, um, the course of at least

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Speaker 1: entertainment and probably some people's lives. You said Oprah could

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Speaker 1: be the most successful communicator you've you've ever experienced. Explain why, Well,

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's so much evidence that supports that she's

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Speaker 1: probably the most successful communicator in the world right now.

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Speaker 1: But but it's experiencing it that really, you know, experiencing

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Speaker 1: that really makes a difference, and you see it, you

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Speaker 1: really so, Um, Spike Lee, I was making a movie

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Speaker 1: with Spike Lee, which film was that It was called

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Speaker 1: Inside Man. Of course, got right here in Washington. It's

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Speaker 1: shot in Wall Street and with Denzel Washington. I have

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Speaker 1: a great story about eye contact that made that movie happen. Actually,

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Speaker 1: but explain then, well, we don't tease this, we won't

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Speaker 1: forget Okay, Okay, So basically I had known Spike Leave

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00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:03,639
Speaker 1: for a while. We both were nominated for Oscars, he

427
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 1: for Do the Right Thing, and I was for another

428
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,680
Speaker 1: movie and and you know, so we met each other

429
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 1: under a very privileged situation, and I love do the

430
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 1: right thing. It was just so inventive in so many

431
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:21,639
Speaker 1: ways cinematically. He handled a pretty heavy subject in a

432
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 1: in the most evolved way cinematically. No one has ever

433
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:28,720
Speaker 1: done that. And U and I always wanted to work

434
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:31,719
Speaker 1: with them. So many years have gone by and we

435
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:33,720
Speaker 1: just never could figure it out, and I put a

436
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:35,679
Speaker 1: lot of effort into trying to figure it out. Now

437
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:38,359
Speaker 1: it's about eight or nine years later, and I have

438
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:42,880
Speaker 1: a movie that that uh that that I'm going to make,

439
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 1: and he came in to talk about it. But we

440
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 1: saw it a little bit differently. And I walked him

441
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 1: to the elevator and as I pressed, I pressed the

442
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:53,680
Speaker 1: button and it's only had to go seven floors. And

443
00:26:53,880 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 1: in those singular moments, he looked up at me. He's

444
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 1: never looked at me before. I felt it differently, and

445
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 1: he looked me in the eyes and he said, I'm

446
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 1: this is the movie I want to make, and he

447
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 1: pulled it from behind his back. It's called Inside Man.

448
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 1: I already had another director on it. But he looked

449
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 1: me in the eyes and I want to make this movie.

450
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 1: It's going to be successful, and more importantly, it's going

451
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:22,680
Speaker 1: to be a successful work relationship for you and me.

452
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 1: I promise you it'll be a great experience. Literally an

453
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:31,159
Speaker 1: elevator pitch seven floors, that's what it was. And I

454
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 1: felt him and I and he really probably did exactly

455
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,359
Speaker 1: you know, he you know, he did one of the

456
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 1: techniques that I would describe in the book. Actually, but

457
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,280
Speaker 1: he did it, and I felt the power of it,

458
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,439
Speaker 1: the authenticity of it. I felt. I felt that, I

459
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 1: felt his soul and honestly, and so I said yes,

460
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:57,200
Speaker 1: and I let the other director go, which wasn't easy,

461
00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,639
Speaker 1: and BENSI uh, he was a little It's a bit

462
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 1: worth it because this became like one of the most profitable,

463
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 1: maybe the most profitable movie for Universal that year. Wow,

464
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 1: that's that's amazing, And I know, the most profitable movie

465
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 1: for Spike in his career, and huge for Denzel and

466
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 1: and me and a fantast So it was a real,

467
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 1: real big win and probably as as importantly we it

468
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 1: ended well. He did provide me a great work experience.

469
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:31,200
Speaker 1: He collaborated, He's awesome, he's talented and collaborative. You can't

470
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 1: beat that. The other um, the other two stories that

471
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 1: stand down in the book that involved that contact eminem

472
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 1: with before eight Miles was kind of known but not

473
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 1: exactly a superstar. No, he wasn't a superstar. Well I

474
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:50,720
Speaker 1: had this, so this, this is, this is actually an

475
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 1: example of of what being alert and what I contact

476
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 1: will do. So, uh, fifteen years before eight Mile came

477
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 1: to life, I overheard in New York in a taxi

478
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 1: cab while I was going from from going from Soho

479
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 1: to Midtown like right about here, and uh, a shock

480
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 1: jock radio guy talking to Howard or someone else. It

481
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 1: could have been yeah, um so uh talking talking talking

482
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 1: to a guest, and the guest was named Old Dirty Bastard. Yeah,

483
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 1: for the wood Tank Clan. But I didn't know much

484
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 1: about This is twenty five years ago today, so I

485
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 1: didn't know much about the Wood Tank Clan, or even

486
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 1: about East Coast hip hop for that matter. I didn't

487
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 1: know about that culture. So I hear Old Dirty a

488
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 1: guy that insists, Yeah, but he insists on being called

489
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:48,960
Speaker 1: old Dirty Bastard and that that's a really unusual thing

490
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 1: that's normally guys, that's an insult. He insisted that you don't.

491
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 1: That's that's what I am. I'm this guy. So I thought,

492
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 1: whoever is that person? I have to meet him. So

493
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 1: I go out of my way and I make a

494
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 1: lot of calls, and I eventually I am able to

495
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 1: meet O. D. B. Your guy here, and we have

496
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 1: this interesting conversation. He's really incredibly wild, very free form character,

497
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 1: and I thought, wow, this is what East the voice

498
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 1: of East Coast Wrap is. This is now, as you said,

499
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 1: the wood Tang Clan. And so I started to learn

500
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 1: about the wood Tang Clan that I sort of that.

501
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 1: I went and met Chug d of Public Enemy and

502
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 1: then Slick Rick, and I realized there's sort of a

503
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 1: comical way of all this, all this stuff, and that

504
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 1: got me on the path of realizing that, um, you know,

505
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 1: this music art form was gonna be the culture. It's not,

506
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:47,240
Speaker 1: you know, a subculture. It is in fact going to

507
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 1: be the culture, which of course it is as we

508
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 1: now know. And so I then thought, I'm gonna try

509
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 1: to proof this out cinematically. And American Gangster, Yeah, well,

510
00:30:57,520 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 1: American Gangster was part of that because I was able

511
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 1: to hire the Rizza and put him in American Gangster.

512
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 1: But I. But I then, of course, with eight mile,

513
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 1: I thought this is worthy of an entire movie. But

514
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 1: studios said, oh, but there's been rap movies. Maria carry

515
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 1: did one, but all Ice didn't one. And I said, well,

516
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 1: this is a different type. And there's the Belly. There's

517
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 1: a bunch of other movies. But I said, well this

518
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 1: is different, and and I I really relied upon all

519
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:29,600
Speaker 1: the information I got about human beings and self actualization.

520
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:34,640
Speaker 1: And it's a Joseph Campbell plot line. It's absolutely the

521
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:38,480
Speaker 1: whole Rap happens to be involved in it, but it's

522
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 1: not about rap. Rap just is a flavoring in that

523
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 1: broader Well that's incredibly smart, you're you're no one's ever

524
00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 1: said that to me, But you're right. It is a

525
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 1: myth that there's been dozens of versions of that story, yeah,

526
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 1: wrapped up different. Only this is a unique kid in

527
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 1: a unique location and in the whole different dimension of

528
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 1: of hip hop on top of it. But the internal

529
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 1: heartbeat that creates the story architecture is you're right, it's

530
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 1: Joseph Campbell here with a thousand faces. It's it lives

531
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 1: in that space. And um so I kind of I

532
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 1: probably actually gravitated towards that paradigm because it gives you comfort.

533
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 1: It's a great it's a great plot. You know that.

534
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 1: Thank you. And then I had a chance to meet Eminem.

535
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 1: I saw it was so talk about the meeting. That's all.

536
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 1: By the way, this whole digression is because the meeting

537
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 1: that you described. He's like, yeah, who the hell are you?

538
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 1: I'm out of here. Yeah he he did say that, Yeah, exactly.

539
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 1: He he said it in multiple different ways. But basically

540
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 1: I thought, it's now many years later since I met

541
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 1: O D. B. And the Rizza and rizzzs is a

542
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 1: big person in my life too. But I thought, I

543
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 1: am gonna try to make a movie about this. But

544
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:55,800
Speaker 1: then I couldn't figure it out. I couldn't figure out

545
00:32:55,800 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 1: this puzzle. Eventually, I I see this guy Eminem. You know,

546
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 1: he's being filmed on of the v M as. He

547
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 1: wasn't winning an award. He was just in a seat,

548
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 1: and I thought, Wow, I gotta meet this guy. So

549
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 1: Jimmy Ivan was a very long time friend, created a

550
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 1: music of music label called Interscope Records. Giant. He yeah,

551
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 1: and he is a visionary. He was able. He had Eminem,

552
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 1: So I said kind of, let's meet him. We meet him,

553
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 1: and out of I'm trying so hard to connect with

554
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 1: Eminem and he won't look at me. He just wasn't happen. Guy.

555
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 1: He's definitely not an eye contact guy. He's a brilliant poet, slight,

556
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 1: somewhat recluse, and so he did not wanna really look at,

557
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 1: you know, connect And so he said I'm out after

558
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 1: about fifteen or twenty minutes, and I thought, yeah, I

559
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 1: hear him enough. Yeah, I'm not connecting with you, man,

560
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 1: I'm out. And so I as his hand was on

561
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 1: the door to leave, I just desperately said, come on,

562
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 1: you can animate. I just that's I mean, I I

563
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 1: have no logic for the sen tinse. I just said it.

564
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 1: And uh. He was hesitant, but then came back and

565
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 1: then he told his story how he grew up, and

566
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 1: and that became the basis of the entire movie and

567
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:14,799
Speaker 1: really the story architecture for the whole movie. And he

568
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:17,800
Speaker 1: ended up winning an Oscar. Never before as a rapper

569
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 1: one an Oscar, and he did so he's really really gifted.

570
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 1: And he wrote the music, wrote the the he played

571
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 1: every he did everything. Guy did everything. The rap contest.

572
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 1: Did he write all of that on both sides? He

573
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 1: did everything. That's amazing. So what was it about the word,

574
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 1: the animate word? What is it that caught his attention? Well,

575
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:41,440
Speaker 1: I don't really know, but animate means come to life,

576
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 1: and uh, he is a scrabble he might have he

577
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 1: might have known the full meaning of it. Was intrigued.

578
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 1: I never have asked him. I should probably someday do that.

579
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,479
Speaker 1: You definitely should. Let's talk about some of the work

580
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:01,720
Speaker 1: you've liked and helped motive eight or animate your career

581
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:04,799
Speaker 1: as a kid. You are giant James Bond fan with

582
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 1: Sean conn Who isn't Those were just the greatest films.

583
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 1: So those were fantastic. They took you into uh an

584
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:17,760
Speaker 1: escapism universe fantasy of like, wow, I can do anything,

585
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:19,800
Speaker 1: I can get the I can get the hot girl,

586
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:23,759
Speaker 1: I can kick guys asses and kill the bag the

587
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:26,400
Speaker 1: little bad guys, save the world and drinking Martini all

588
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 1: at the same time. So you don't really do action

589
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 1: films though, you really do films with the big dramatic content. Yeah,

590
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:39,360
Speaker 1: with real emotion film. Right, if there's emotion as the

591
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:42,920
Speaker 1: destination for films, if there's action, it sets up the

592
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:48,840
Speaker 1: emotional tension like Apollo thirteen or Backdraft. Stuff happens, but

593
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:51,400
Speaker 1: it teases even the Da Vinci Code, we had him

594
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:54,239
Speaker 1: running and doing things, and it wasn't even in the

595
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 1: book where they it was that active. But but we

596
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 1: we we found a way to manufacture that. So have

597
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 1: you ever watched a movie and said, God, I could

598
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:07,880
Speaker 1: never have I never would have seen that idea, what

599
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 1: a what a great concept. It's just so outside of

600
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:14,480
Speaker 1: my uh comfort zone. I wouldn't have done that. Or conversely,

601
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 1: have you ever seen something and said, oh, that was

602
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 1: a great opportunity here and these guys blew it? Oh

603
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 1: my god, all those answers. Yes, Okay, I've seen concepts

604
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:30,920
Speaker 1: not correctly executed where I think they blew it. But

605
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 1: I've blown it too, So I I have movies that

606
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:35,839
Speaker 1: I could site, which I won't do now that where

607
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:38,320
Speaker 1: I've where I've kind of blown it, where I've rationalized

608
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:40,319
Speaker 1: it's one of my rules where I thought, well, this

609
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 1: is good enough. This one decision is good enough, and

610
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 1: one decision that is good enough is always it just is.

611
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 1: And you're the best judge of quality. You just have

612
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:56,759
Speaker 1: to don't yourself so and I do sometimes because you're

613
00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 1: just the endless assault of decisions you have to make

614
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 1: to make a movie, raise the money, make a movie,

615
00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:08,640
Speaker 1: turn it into some cinematic masterpiece hopefully um so um.

616
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,960
Speaker 1: But I have had there. The movie that a couple

617
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:14,840
Speaker 1: of movies changed my life. Really, the one movie that

618
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:18,799
Speaker 1: got me into show business, really that made me think

619
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:24,759
Speaker 1: that everything is possible was mel Brooks's Blazing Saddle because

620
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 1: he violated every single rule of ethics, morality and language

621
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:33,479
Speaker 1: and and uh and the fourth wall and the fourth

622
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:37,840
Speaker 1: wall and it worked. So I thought, wow, this was

623
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:40,880
Speaker 1: like the first shot comedy. And I just called it

624
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:42,880
Speaker 1: that to myself, like a shot comedy, and I thought

625
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:46,640
Speaker 1: that means you can really do anything. This is so exciting.

626
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:48,839
Speaker 1: So the first seventeen years of my life, it's all

627
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 1: I wrote or produced was were comedies. You know, nuttie, Professor, Liar, Liar, Parenthood.

628
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:55,920
Speaker 1: I could go on, but the point is as I

629
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:59,840
Speaker 1: just did that Boomerang with Eddie Murphy and Steve Martin. Anyway,

630
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 1: but the movie that really changed my life with Steven

631
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:09,640
Speaker 1: Spielberg's Et because I realized when I experienced that movie

632
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 1: at the Cinerama Dome in Hollywood. Everybody when the movie ended,

633
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:19,279
Speaker 1: everybody was at peace, everybody felt good. It he that

634
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:24,640
Speaker 1: movie elevated people's moods to a really positive place. It

635
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:28,359
Speaker 1: created a transcendental moment for human beings where they didn't

636
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 1: have to rush to get their car and they weren't aggressive,

637
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:35,839
Speaker 1: and it was it empowered you, It empowered possibilities. And

638
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:37,920
Speaker 1: I thought, I want to try to make that be

639
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 1: my goal, like to aspire. I never reached that, and honestly,

640
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 1: I've done really good work, but that was at a

641
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 1: very very very high level, and uh, I deeply admire

642
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 1: it and became an aspirational uh professional asport. That's a

643
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:56,760
Speaker 1: touchdowne in your career. Film. Yeah, well, well to knowing

644
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,879
Speaker 1: the power of film. Like the power of film, great

645
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:04,879
Speaker 1: stories that have redemption, can move people, can create good

646
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:08,400
Speaker 1: vibes in the world. And that's actually my goal with

647
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:11,520
Speaker 1: even with my television shows or my movies. I just

648
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:15,080
Speaker 1: I really want to entertain people, engage them so they

649
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:17,439
Speaker 1: have a great time, but make them but put out

650
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 1: good vibes. So, so let's talk about a touchstone and

651
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 1: moving people. I'm a giant arrested development fan. The voiceover

652
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:29,880
Speaker 1: narration it's beyond a meme now that has become a

653
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:34,960
Speaker 1: cultural touchstone, especially in the current era. You see it

654
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:38,359
Speaker 1: all the time. Someone says something on TV that turns

655
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 1: out to be nonsense and in parentheses you get narrator.

656
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:46,960
Speaker 1: It wasn't the line straight from from Ron Howard's voice

657
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 1: when you guys were first putting that together. How did

658
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:54,280
Speaker 1: the narrator come about? And did you have any idea

659
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:58,640
Speaker 1: this was going to become as giants a little cultural

660
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 1: touch known as it's become no No, No to all. Basically,

661
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:07,799
Speaker 1: this was a project that was primarily cooked up with

662
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:11,239
Speaker 1: the I was part of it, of course, but the

663
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 1: collaboration of Mitch her was who created and Ron Howard,

664
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:19,359
Speaker 1: who collaborated on its birth, and of course does this

665
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:22,239
Speaker 1: voice over narration, and which is, by the way, is

666
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:25,719
Speaker 1: just pitch perfect. Like you recognize his voice, but if

667
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:27,480
Speaker 1: you're not paying attention, you don't know who it is

668
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:32,399
Speaker 1: right away. And and his he's smart, his dead pen

669
00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:36,279
Speaker 1: is perfect. And I know throughout the show there have

670
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 1: been little hints that it's him. You see the hands

671
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,080
Speaker 1: of the narrator with the ring that's r H on it.

672
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:48,919
Speaker 1: How did how did that come about? Um? I think

673
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:51,880
Speaker 1: it was probably Mitch's idea, and Ron was excited to

674
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:54,799
Speaker 1: do it and knew he could do it because he

675
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 1: understood the tone really well and he has a great voice.

676
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:04,240
Speaker 1: He's incredibly is a really good actor, and his style

677
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:07,840
Speaker 1: of communication in real life is not that dissimilar. He's

678
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:14,640
Speaker 1: he's a very unaffected person. He's completely unpretentious. Uh, he's

679
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:19,279
Speaker 1: incredibly He's confident, but unpretentious. How did how did you

680
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:22,960
Speaker 1: guys meet and become partners? We met because I had

681
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 1: this discipline of curiosity conversations, and I looked out my

682
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 1: window while I was a television producer at Paramount, and

683
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:35,759
Speaker 1: I yelled out the window to Richie Cunningham. I said Ron,

684
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:39,800
Speaker 1: Ron Howard and and then he sort of scurried away.

685
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 1: And then I called his office and said would he

686
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 1: considered meeting me? And then we had our first Hollywood lunch,

687
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 1: which it was his first Hollywood lunch and because he

688
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:51,839
Speaker 1: never did Hollywood lunches, he was just working. Again, he's

689
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 1: just a he's a guy that just works and gets

690
00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:56,960
Speaker 1: on it. But so he never did a Hollywood lunch.

691
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 1: He did one of the Brian Grazer that worked, and

692
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 1: then we pitched some ideas together. I pitched two ideas.

693
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:05,719
Speaker 1: One was night Shift, one was Splash Michael Keaton right

694
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:09,239
Speaker 1: and Henry Winkler. And that was the first movie we did.

695
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:11,720
Speaker 1: Even though I wanted him to do the love story Mermaid,

696
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:15,600
Speaker 1: he wanted to do an R rated film. Um, And

697
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 1: so he did it, and he did it really really

698
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 1: well and relatively small budget, and it was very successful.

699
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:23,680
Speaker 1: It was immediately successful because the chairman of Warner Brothers

700
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:25,960
Speaker 1: at the time, his named Bob Dailey, who was he

701
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 1: had just left CBS. He sold it immediately to CBS

702
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 1: for the entire cost of the movie. So we're in

703
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:36,760
Speaker 1: profit right exactly. And then, um, where did the script

704
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 1: from for Splash come from? Splash came because I had this.

705
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:48,040
Speaker 1: I started this, this idea of what if I could

706
00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:52,040
Speaker 1: meet my perfect girl? And what would that girl be like?

707
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:57,800
Speaker 1: What would those characteristics be, how would she communicate? Um,

708
00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:00,799
Speaker 1: the purity of all of the those things. And I

709
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:03,799
Speaker 1: just kept defining it and redefining and redefining. Where would

710
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:08,640
Speaker 1: I live? I thought, well, whenever happened in l A. No,

711
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:12,280
Speaker 1: I would never meet the perfect girl in l A. Okay,

712
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:15,480
Speaker 1: where would it be? But you have which I did.

713
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:20,640
Speaker 1: But Veronica actually was from Bloomsburg, Pennsylvania, and she was

714
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:22,520
Speaker 1: only in l A for a day. But you're right,

715
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:26,600
Speaker 1: very wow, you're a good reader, thoughtful. Um So, in

716
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:31,759
Speaker 1: any event, um So, I just kept assaulting the simplicity

717
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 1: again of a question that I postulated to myself. Is

718
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:37,719
Speaker 1: it possible to meet a perfect girl? Is possible? What

719
00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:39,919
Speaker 1: does a perfect girl look like? What would that be?

720
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:42,719
Speaker 1: Then I've defined it, then I wrote it. Then I

721
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:47,880
Speaker 1: superimposed this whole mythological image of imagery of mermaid because

722
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:53,759
Speaker 1: mermaids have power, they have beauty and sex appeal, they

723
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:58,279
Speaker 1: have simplicity, and they're unattainable and that makes the love

724
00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 1: story harder and gives you a third act that's interesting

725
00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:05,440
Speaker 1: and and it's phil the film I've always adored. It's

726
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:08,920
Speaker 1: filled filled with great characters. John the little cameos from

727
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 1: John Candy are just hilarious. Well, John Candy was hilarious,

728
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:15,880
Speaker 1: was so funny. Um But we talked earlier today on

729
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:18,640
Speaker 1: the show about my grandmother who supported me. Was a

730
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 1: Jewish grandmother, was a little, tiny Jewish grandmother, and she

731
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:25,080
Speaker 1: had all these isms. The isms were like think big

732
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:28,319
Speaker 1: b big uh, it's just as easy to have a

733
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 1: good rich girl as as a poor girl. Um, you

734
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:34,480
Speaker 1: have problems. Wash it down with Chris with chicken soup.

735
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:37,760
Speaker 1: She had a crazy every one of these is ms.

736
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:41,439
Speaker 1: I took all of those is ms the grandma, Sonja said,

737
00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:45,200
Speaker 1: and I gave him to the character of John Candy.

738
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:47,520
Speaker 1: And that's how they all kind of happened like that,

739
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:51,600
Speaker 1: he said, my friend. And then my grandmother had kind

740
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:56,000
Speaker 1: of a decadence weirdly, and I extrapolated further on the decadence.

741
00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:59,399
Speaker 1: You know, like my grandmother smoked, she got divorced early

742
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:02,440
Speaker 1: in life when she was like in nineteen forty no

743
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:05,440
Speaker 1: one got divorced. She did all these kind of things

744
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:08,359
Speaker 1: that were that were unconventional. So I put a lot

745
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:11,800
Speaker 1: of those those things into the character that John Candy played.

746
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:15,120
Speaker 1: And then real writers came in to rewrite me because

747
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:19,239
Speaker 1: my script was terrible embodied the idea. But but it

748
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:22,759
Speaker 1: was the first is the first draft. Um, but it

749
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 1: was low Against and Bob Blue Mandel that were really

750
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:29,920
Speaker 1: gifted and incredibly funny. Like so you you mentioned the

751
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:33,839
Speaker 1: beautiful girl. You mentioned this, which sort of makes me

752
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 1: think of the current environment. I don't think you can

753
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:41,000
Speaker 1: make blazing Saddles today, you can't do that. You probably

754
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 1: could make splash today, but it would be it would

755
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:49,399
Speaker 1: some of the more interesting aspects would be sanded down. So,

756
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:52,719
Speaker 1: given the current environment, given the me too movement, everything else,

757
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:57,799
Speaker 1: how has that affected the options you have for for

758
00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:04,279
Speaker 1: making films today. It's not. It's it's not too confining

759
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 1: for Ron and and and Brian Grazer and imagine because

760
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:12,680
Speaker 1: we operate the movies and television we make, they they

761
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 1: just naturally operate within a value system that doesn't violate,

762
00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:22,000
Speaker 1: so it doesn't face impact. No, I mean, if you're

763
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:26,239
Speaker 1: doing I don't make those hard. Those are comedies, but

764
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:29,480
Speaker 1: it would definitely affect be constrictive that way if we

765
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:33,439
Speaker 1: if we did not gen Really, yeah, it's not really

766
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:36,760
Speaker 1: my genre. The R rated comedies and doing comedies itself

767
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:39,960
Speaker 1: is kind of hard right now in in movies and TV.

768
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 1: I'm thrilled to do a comedy. I may. I like

769
00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:49,080
Speaker 1: television and I like uh so, so I'm sensitized to it.

770
00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:51,400
Speaker 1: But I I think Ron and I just by nature

771
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:56,920
Speaker 1: are not human rights violators. Right, So you describe him

772
00:46:56,960 --> 00:47:00,239
Speaker 1: as like the nicest human soul you'll ever want to eat.

773
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:03,720
Speaker 1: He is. Before I get to my speed round questions,

774
00:47:03,719 --> 00:47:05,319
Speaker 1: I just have to talk to you a little bit

775
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 1: um about the dyslexia. UM. I told you I love

776
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 1: the left is the hand that makes the l You

777
00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 1: do this, Um, I don't know how else it manifests itself. You.

778
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:21,560
Speaker 1: I always found that if I would go out to

779
00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:24,560
Speaker 1: eat with a group of people, I was always eating

780
00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:29,759
Speaker 1: other people's bread and water. But I'll tell you a

781
00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 1: neurologist at Stony Brook University Medical Center who works with

782
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:38,680
Speaker 1: a d h D kids and dyslexic kids told me

783
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:44,560
Speaker 1: another little shortcut you make the okay, and this is

784
00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:46,920
Speaker 1: B is bread and D is drink. And that's how.

785
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:50,279
Speaker 1: And ever since she showed me that shortcut, I have

786
00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:54,640
Speaker 1: stopped eating other people's dinner rolls. It's um what I

787
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 1: want to ask, how did you learn to manage the dyslexia?

788
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:02,880
Speaker 1: How did you overcome that? Because that's a really especially

789
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:08,360
Speaker 1: for someone who reads screenplays. Getting past that that reading

790
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:10,800
Speaker 1: issue had to be a big challenge. Well. Yes, in

791
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:15,920
Speaker 1: my early education zero through fifth grade, I couldn't read

792
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:20,520
Speaker 1: a word, read one word, and so it became pretty

793
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:25,040
Speaker 1: traumatizing and it caused behaviors of like not looking at

794
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:27,560
Speaker 1: people because they might pick me to come to the

795
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:30,120
Speaker 1: front of the class, and I would never have the

796
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:33,160
Speaker 1: answer because I couldn't read. So therefore, any of those

797
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:37,360
Speaker 1: kind of exchange exchanges that involved having to read to

798
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:39,799
Speaker 1: get the answer didn't work. So so how did you

799
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:43,200
Speaker 1: overcome that? It just happened. I got I got lucky.

800
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:46,280
Speaker 1: There's you know, these sort of moments of epiphany where

801
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:50,880
Speaker 1: some flash breakthrough occurred and I could then spell. I

802
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 1: was able to spell almost really, I remember being able

803
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:56,880
Speaker 1: to spell before I could read, and then I was

804
00:48:56,960 --> 00:48:59,800
Speaker 1: able to read in sixth grade, not not well because

805
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:02,799
Speaker 1: I would always start on the right and go to

806
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:06,160
Speaker 1: the left, and so that was problematic. But it just

807
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:08,360
Speaker 1: took discipline, and it still takes a lot of discipline.

808
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:11,200
Speaker 1: I invert words. I gets upset and I say to Ironica,

809
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:15,000
Speaker 1: I'm so upset. I press send and doesn't make any sense,

810
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:17,920
Speaker 1: and she said, well, people expect stuff like that. You

811
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:20,600
Speaker 1: don't have to be so hard on yourself. And you

812
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:23,880
Speaker 1: have trouble dialing phones. You have trouble. I don't transpose numbers.

813
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:27,279
Speaker 1: I don't dial phones. You don't know. I mean, I

814
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:33,160
Speaker 1: do transport I do transpose numbers. I seldom dial phones.

815
00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:38,080
Speaker 1: I use my smartphone, just my serie. Or early in

816
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:41,200
Speaker 1: my career worked in an investment bank and they rotate

817
00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:43,440
Speaker 1: you through every department. You're on the trading desk, you

818
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:46,200
Speaker 1: and the bond was so when they rotated me through

819
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:49,200
Speaker 1: the sales department, they give you a list of clients

820
00:49:49,239 --> 00:49:52,160
Speaker 1: and call all these people that lasted a day when

821
00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:57,600
Speaker 1: its constantly get numbers like well, unfortunately. I mean, technology

822
00:49:57,640 --> 00:49:59,719
Speaker 1: is so great right now, and I mean I I

823
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:02,680
Speaker 1: of technology, and I love the power of smartphones. I

824
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:05,520
Speaker 1: just think they should be done independently. I think you

825
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 1: should use all your smartphones and smart equipment to get smarter.

826
00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:12,200
Speaker 1: And then when you meet somebody, be completely protatal and

827
00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:14,359
Speaker 1: look at them face to face. And in the book

828
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:19,879
Speaker 1: there's so many techniques that bridge into success variable success situations.

829
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:22,200
Speaker 1: All right, so I only have you for a few

830
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:25,680
Speaker 1: more moments. Let me run through our speed round. Yes,

831
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:29,799
Speaker 1: ten questions, bang through these as fast as you can.

832
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:32,440
Speaker 1: First car, you have her own. You're making Model A

833
00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:39,400
Speaker 1: two thousand two BMW Burgundy, and uh that's what it

834
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:42,640
Speaker 1: was too, doesn't too Burgundy? BMW? I drove it on

835
00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:47,040
Speaker 1: the Warner Brothers a lot and I I've met two

836
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:49,919
Speaker 1: girls very independent of one another, looking through my rear

837
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:53,080
Speaker 1: view mirror with my little BMW. One was Diane Keaton

838
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:55,200
Speaker 1: and I stopped and talked to her for a minute

839
00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:57,000
Speaker 1: and I said, what are you working on? She said,

840
00:50:57,000 --> 00:51:00,279
Speaker 1: The Godfather. I had no idea, I like I I

841
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:02,160
Speaker 1: was just like I was a kid that just from

842
00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:04,000
Speaker 1: the valley. I didn't even know why I was on

843
00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:08,200
Speaker 1: the lot. And Tom Hanks's wife for Rita Wilson Hanks,

844
00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:11,360
Speaker 1: Now like at at you know, at our she's a

845
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:15,520
Speaker 1: rock star. I mean, but she's Tom's wife. And I

846
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:20,440
Speaker 1: met her and drove her home in the daytime to

847
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:24,040
Speaker 1: Wilson Woodward Wilson Avenue, and that's what she told me.

848
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:26,960
Speaker 1: That's where they got their last name from the street there.

849
00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:30,759
Speaker 1: That's so funny. What's the most important thing people don't

850
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:33,680
Speaker 1: know about? Brian Grazer? Did I cry a lot? Really?

851
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:39,600
Speaker 1: Like watching commercials? No? Uh? Well, music, I get emotional.

852
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:46,640
Speaker 1: I celebrate the beauty of of genius or hard work

853
00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:51,680
Speaker 1: or accomplishment, and I can see little bits of accomplishment

854
00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:56,880
Speaker 1: and things, and I start to get emotional. U interesting.

855
00:51:56,960 --> 00:52:01,480
Speaker 1: Early mentors, early mentors. Well, my grandmother first Grandma should

856
00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:07,360
Speaker 1: and then early in my career, producer named saulve Zance

857
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:11,600
Speaker 1: produced Amadeus and he produced. He also produced One Flew

858
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:15,160
Speaker 1: Over the Cuckoo's Nest impeccable, well at a third one

859
00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:17,880
Speaker 1: The English Patient. I think he won two or three

860
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:21,440
Speaker 1: Oscars for Best Picture. It impeccable taste. And when I

861
00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:27,520
Speaker 1: learned from sauls Ants is if you even with nothing written,

862
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:33,040
Speaker 1: I'm gonna start scouting locations. Meaning if I like something

863
00:52:33,080 --> 00:52:36,560
Speaker 1: and it's it's not even written, I'm actualizing it. It's

864
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:40,520
Speaker 1: being done. So I just thought, wow, creative visualization. He

865
00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:43,440
Speaker 1: was doing that early on. And someone Richard Zani Dick

866
00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:47,480
Speaker 1: Zane also great taste, amazing taste. What are some of

867
00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:49,680
Speaker 1: your favorite books? Do you do you read much in

868
00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:51,960
Speaker 1: the way of books. Are you so busy with screenplays

869
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:54,160
Speaker 1: you just don't get to books. Um? No, I do read.

870
00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:56,680
Speaker 1: I read books more than I read screen plays. I

871
00:52:56,800 --> 00:53:00,480
Speaker 1: try to read, um non fiction. But I've a favorite

872
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:03,439
Speaker 1: of many, many favorite books. But one of them that

873
00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:07,160
Speaker 1: is Grit by Angela just came out last year. Yeah,

874
00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:11,080
Speaker 1: it's so great, It's it's definitely have to do that.

875
00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:13,320
Speaker 1: Give it, give us another one. Everybody loves this question.

876
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:17,960
Speaker 1: I look, I like uh martial arts, and I like

877
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:21,279
Speaker 1: Eastern Thought. So Bruce Lee is an icon and I'm

878
00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:23,960
Speaker 1: a fan of so. He wrote a book called Jet

879
00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:30,000
Speaker 1: Want Jet Kwondo, and I like that book. Okay, quite interesting.

880
00:53:30,440 --> 00:53:32,480
Speaker 1: Tell us about a time you failed and what you

881
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:37,000
Speaker 1: learned from the experience. I failed so many times. Um,

882
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:40,839
Speaker 1: I learned to keep taking risk and keep failing, keep

883
00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:43,040
Speaker 1: coming back at it, keep coming back, don't Well, what

884
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:45,680
Speaker 1: I really learned is don't let He used to really

885
00:53:45,719 --> 00:53:50,160
Speaker 1: traumatize me, depressed me. I couldn't go to work. I yeah,

886
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:54,440
Speaker 1: I developed physical problems, but that doesn't happen any longer.

887
00:53:55,120 --> 00:53:59,120
Speaker 1: I still don't like to fail, but I'd rather be fearless.

888
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:01,640
Speaker 1: So normally at this point I would ask you what

889
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:03,600
Speaker 1: you do for fun? But I know you surf, I

890
00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:07,560
Speaker 1: know you do uh, taekwondo and other stuff. What what

891
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:10,480
Speaker 1: else do you do for fun? Play tennis? I love that.

892
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:13,560
Speaker 1: Do food videos, So go to Brian Grazer and watch

893
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:16,359
Speaker 1: my food videos. They're kind of funny. I did them

894
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:19,200
Speaker 1: originally from my all four of my kids. They thought

895
00:54:19,239 --> 00:54:22,600
Speaker 1: they were hilarious because I'm always doing something funny with

896
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:26,040
Speaker 1: food and funny parts of the world. And my kids

897
00:54:26,560 --> 00:54:28,560
Speaker 1: encouraged me, and that's why I like doing that. That

898
00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:32,320
Speaker 1: sounds like a blast. Uh. Within the film and television industry,

899
00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:36,200
Speaker 1: what do you most optimistic and most pessimistic about today?

900
00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:40,640
Speaker 1: I'm the most optimistic about the power of stories. That

901
00:54:40,760 --> 00:54:45,160
Speaker 1: hardware has change, consolidation, movie companies, all those those things

902
00:54:45,200 --> 00:54:48,359
Speaker 1: have changed. But that I've seen that over over three

903
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:52,440
Speaker 1: and a half decades, that all you know, okay, movies,

904
00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:55,480
Speaker 1: they're terrible now, but they're not terrible. DVD is going

905
00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:59,120
Speaker 1: to change the movie business. It didn't. Um, Netflix is

906
00:54:59,160 --> 00:55:01,800
Speaker 1: going to destroy the movie business. It didn't. It was

907
00:55:01,840 --> 00:55:03,960
Speaker 1: good for the movie. But it's the golden age of it.

908
00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:09,759
Speaker 1: It's just great stories. I think people, particularly in the

909
00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:14,440
Speaker 1: tech business who didn't didn't a decade ago, value stories.

910
00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:18,400
Speaker 1: Everybody values the power of a story. And our final

911
00:55:18,440 --> 00:55:22,400
Speaker 1: two questions, UH, recent college grad comes to you and

912
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:25,480
Speaker 1: said they're interested in pursuing a career in film or

913
00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:28,399
Speaker 1: television production. What sort of advice would you give them?

914
00:55:29,360 --> 00:55:33,200
Speaker 1: Always try to understand the language of our business, of

915
00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:37,719
Speaker 1: the culture. Read the trades, Read Deadline, Hollywood, read these

916
00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:41,560
Speaker 1: things that seem kind of like, you know, trashy, gossipy,

917
00:55:41,560 --> 00:55:45,040
Speaker 1: but truthful of what's going on in Hollywood. First, learn

918
00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:49,120
Speaker 1: the language, That's what I'd say. Learn the language. Then

919
00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:52,600
Speaker 1: I'd say find somebody that you Then I always say

920
00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:54,440
Speaker 1: to somebody, do you want to optimally, do you want

921
00:55:54,440 --> 00:55:58,680
Speaker 1: to work inside or outside? If you want to work inside,

922
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:01,560
Speaker 1: then you can be an agent, You can be a producer,

923
00:56:01,680 --> 00:56:03,920
Speaker 1: you can be a writer. If you want to work outside,

924
00:56:04,280 --> 00:56:06,920
Speaker 1: you could be an assistant director or a director. You

925
00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:10,400
Speaker 1: have to think, imagine where do you want to spend

926
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:13,799
Speaker 1: your day in or out. It's a simple thing, and

927
00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:16,400
Speaker 1: then you can find another simple thing that helps you

928
00:56:16,600 --> 00:56:19,680
Speaker 1: get there. But the language is going to help you

929
00:56:19,719 --> 00:56:23,320
Speaker 1: because it will decode the internal workings of the business.

930
00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:26,000
Speaker 1: And our final question, what do you know about the

931
00:56:26,040 --> 00:56:29,800
Speaker 1: world of entertainment today that you wish you knew thirty

932
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:34,600
Speaker 1: plus years ago when you were first getting started? Um,

933
00:56:34,719 --> 00:56:37,960
Speaker 1: that what I wish I say it again, what what

934
00:56:38,040 --> 00:56:40,560
Speaker 1: do you know to today that you wish you knew

935
00:56:40,760 --> 00:56:44,600
Speaker 1: thirty years ago? That failing is okay? I wish I

936
00:56:44,680 --> 00:56:47,279
Speaker 1: knew that failing is okay because it caused me a

937
00:56:47,320 --> 00:56:51,200
Speaker 1: lot of worry and stress I think if you honestly,

938
00:56:51,239 --> 00:56:53,440
Speaker 1: what I really think is if you're a good person,

939
00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:59,239
Speaker 1: you work towards the laws of karma. Like just I

940
00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:02,600
Speaker 1: do really believe even like smiling at people, I believe in.

941
00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:08,200
Speaker 1: I believe in all of those little those little butterfly

942
00:57:08,239 --> 00:57:14,879
Speaker 1: effect moments get you goodwill. Good will allow forgives you.

943
00:57:15,120 --> 00:57:20,560
Speaker 1: For failure. There are I've seen so many people, superstars

944
00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:25,240
Speaker 1: to be incredibly rude, and when they fail, they never

945
00:57:25,320 --> 00:57:29,440
Speaker 1: come back. They can't get back. But if you're mad,

946
00:57:30,440 --> 00:57:32,840
Speaker 1: they burn a lot of bridges. They make too much noise,

947
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:35,560
Speaker 1: they're too rude, they offend too many people, and they

948
00:57:35,560 --> 00:57:37,960
Speaker 1: don't create good vibes out there. You know, it's a

949
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:41,560
Speaker 1: collaborative business, and you're never You're not gonna even bat

950
00:57:41,560 --> 00:57:44,040
Speaker 1: five hundred. It's sort of if you think of baseball,

951
00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:48,280
Speaker 1: you're gonna bat about three thirty three fifty. That's pretty amazing.

952
00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:52,280
Speaker 1: And so basically you have to just know that success

953
00:57:52,680 --> 00:57:55,280
Speaker 1: is not a straight up trajectory. And a lot of

954
00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:58,640
Speaker 1: people lose their humility and they think, oh I'm good,

955
00:57:58,680 --> 00:58:00,880
Speaker 1: you know, and they and they and they lose humility,

956
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:03,919
Speaker 1: then they lose manners and human etiquette. They don't look

957
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:05,960
Speaker 1: at you. They look past you, they look over you,

958
00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:10,560
Speaker 1: and everyone catches all that stuff. People feel energy. That's

959
00:58:10,600 --> 00:58:13,320
Speaker 1: how you make big decisions. And so I think I've

960
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:17,760
Speaker 1: gotten a lot of breaks, uh, and I'm really grateful

961
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:20,880
Speaker 1: to all the breaks I've gotten and continued to get.

962
00:58:21,400 --> 00:58:23,600
Speaker 1: Thank you, Brian for being so generous with your time.

963
00:58:23,680 --> 00:58:27,240
Speaker 1: This has been absolutely fascinating. We have been speaking with

964
00:58:27,280 --> 00:58:30,960
Speaker 1: Brian Grazer. He is UH television and film producer and

965
00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:35,400
Speaker 1: co founder of Imagine Entertainment. If you enjoy this conversation,

966
00:58:35,440 --> 00:58:37,840
Speaker 1: well look up and intro, down and inch on Apple iTunes.

967
00:58:38,160 --> 00:58:40,840
Speaker 1: You can see any of the previous two hundred and

968
00:58:40,880 --> 00:58:44,400
Speaker 1: sixty or so conversations we've had over the past five years.

969
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:49,600
Speaker 1: You can find that at iTunes, Google Podcasts, Spotify, wherever

970
00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:52,680
Speaker 1: you're find. Our podcasts are sold. We love your comments,

971
00:58:52,720 --> 00:58:56,480
Speaker 1: feedback and suggestions right to us at m IB podcast

972
00:58:56,520 --> 00:58:58,880
Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot net. Go give us a lovely review

973
00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:01,920
Speaker 1: on Apple iTunes. I would be remiss if I did

974
00:59:01,920 --> 00:59:04,640
Speaker 1: not thank the Cracks staff that helps put together this

975
00:59:04,760 --> 00:59:09,120
Speaker 1: podcast each week. Attica val Bron is our project director.

976
00:59:09,160 --> 00:59:12,840
Speaker 1: Michael Boyle is my booker, slash producer, Michael bat Nick

977
00:59:13,160 --> 00:59:16,840
Speaker 1: is my director of research. I'm Barry Retolts. You've been

978
00:59:16,880 --> 00:59:19,920
Speaker 1: listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio.