1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:06,640 Speaker 1: Quody Dines with Joseph Scott More. One of my all 2 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:13,200 Speaker 1: time favorite scenes in any movie is from The Big Lebowski. 3 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 1: I have to admit I'm a massive fan of the movie. 4 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:19,280 Speaker 1: I didn't get it the first two times I watched it. 5 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:21,639 Speaker 1: I had people that had because I love the Cohen Brothers, 6 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: and I have people that encouraged me. You got to 7 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 1: go back and watch it, and every single time I 8 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:30,640 Speaker 1: watched it, it was like I was peeling back a 9 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 1: layer of I don't know, a big reveal if you will, 10 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 1: but contained within that film is the scene toward the 11 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 1: end of the movie where the dude and Walter have 12 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:49,920 Speaker 1: gone out to this beautiful stretch of beach. Obviously in California, 13 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:52,479 Speaker 1: it's a rugged coastline. They're on rocks and they have 14 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 1: their friends' ashes, which by the way, are contained in 15 00:00:56,560 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 1: a plastic Folgers coffee box, and Walter played by John Goodman, 16 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:09,960 Speaker 1: stands there and does this long resertation about their friend 17 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 1: Donnie and his life, and he decides to scatter Donnie's ashes. 18 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:17,480 Speaker 1: At this moment in time, they've gone out there to 19 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 1: memorialize Donnie, and as Walter does this, the breeze kicks up. 20 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:30,679 Speaker 1: And all of a sudden, these cremaines are deposited on 21 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:36,479 Speaker 1: the dude and his face is white with this ash. 22 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:39,920 Speaker 1: His clothing is white, his favorite bowling shirt, which is 23 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 1: a shirt that he wears throughout much of the film. 24 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 1: And it's something that many people don't think about. You know, 25 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 1: if I have cremains or ashes, what am I going 26 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 1: to do with them? What shall I do with the 27 00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 1: remains of a loved one or a friend in their 28 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 1: final repose? Well, Walter made a bad decision, But today 29 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 1: I'm going to talk about something that is far more 30 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 1: horrendous that has occurred recently in Nevada. As a matter 31 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 1: of fact, there is no memorialization. There's essentially a dumping 32 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:35,640 Speaker 1: of hundreds of human cremains. And right now we ain't 33 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 1: got no answers. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is 34 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 1: body bags. How could they not have How could those 35 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 1: characters have not or at least both of them. It's 36 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: not just Walter's fault. How could they not have anticipated 37 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 1: an inshore breeze? Wow, because I've been to the beach. 38 00:02:57,200 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 1: I know you've been there a lot over the course 39 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:02,520 Speaker 1: of your life, and it is beautiful. It is beautiful, 40 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:06,639 Speaker 1: and the fact that those those ashes blow back on 41 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 1: them is no surprise. I think that's one of the 42 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:10,799 Speaker 1: reasons most of the time. I don't know if it's 43 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:15,520 Speaker 1: the only reason. When you deposit cremaines in the ocean, 44 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:19,399 Speaker 1: they ask. And I've been looking at state laws. There's 45 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 1: one place that says you need to go off shore 46 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:26,079 Speaker 1: three nautical miles in order to scatter ashes. Right. It's 47 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 1: a curious thing, isn't it. 48 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 2: Well, otherwise you got people on the beach laying out 49 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 2: and all of a sudden they're reaching over and kid 50 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 2: comes up with a really neat shell and you're going, no, 51 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 2: that's a tooth, baby, you know, just to share something 52 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 2: with you guys. Look, you know when I found out 53 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 2: what that, we relied to about cremaines because I thought 54 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 2: cremains were like in a movie where they're like a powder, 55 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 2: you know, very powdery looking and kind of a dust 56 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 2: and just kind of waffed into the air. 57 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 1: That's what it looks like. Huh. 58 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 2: It was when my mother passed and we had her, 59 00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 2: we had her, she was cremated and we had her 60 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 2: service on okra Coke Island, North Carolina. Where she was 61 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 2: raised and it's my favorite place. That's my secret spot, right, 62 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 2: but not anymore. Well, buddy, the thing is is that 63 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 2: you know, we go out there to do this, and 64 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 2: you know, it's like they don't tell you there should 65 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 2: be a warning. And I'm going to give you, guys 66 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 2: that warning. Cremains are not dust. Okay, they can have 67 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:22,839 Speaker 2: teeth and a lot of big parts in it, But 68 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 2: bottom line is always the bottom line, Joe. And in 69 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 2: this particular story, we have a headline that at first 70 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 2: you and I both thought it was like thirty which 71 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:35,480 Speaker 2: is bad enough, but I double checked. Three hundred piles 72 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 2: of cremated cremated human remains discovered near Las Vegas now 73 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 2: near Vegas, about an hour outside of town. But Joe, 74 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:47,359 Speaker 2: they went to all the effort to cremate a person 75 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:51,839 Speaker 2: and then rather than give it to a family member 76 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 2: or do something, they just took them out in the 77 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 2: desert and then they it's almost like you mentioned the beach, 78 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 2: because they're like building sand castles like kids do on 79 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 2: the beach. It's like they got a bucket and that 80 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:06,920 Speaker 2: these are piles of remains, and they're like. 81 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:09,720 Speaker 1: They look like I got to tell you David, I 82 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 1: urge anybody, any of our friends out there that are 83 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:15,480 Speaker 1: not familiar with the story, I urge you because there 84 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:17,679 Speaker 1: are some images. And David, I got to tell you, brother, 85 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:20,839 Speaker 1: when I saw them, When I saw these, not to 86 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 1: make light, but when I saw it, it looked like. 87 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 2: It. 88 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 1: And they're they're almost in rows, and it looked like 89 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 1: fire ant beds. It did it? Did you know? They're 90 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 1: kind of built up, they're mounded up and nothing. I 91 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:40,280 Speaker 1: don't know. My son, Noah is fascinated by the desert. 92 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 1: He loves the desert. He loves going to the desert 93 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 1: in Nevada, he loves He was with in the Air Force. 94 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 1: He actually went, he was in Arizona. He and I actually, 95 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 1: as a result of military service, were in the same 96 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 1: location in Arizona and Yuma, and he was just he's 97 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:00,720 Speaker 1: fascinated by it because it's so us growing up in 98 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 1: South it's a completely foreign world. But I go back 99 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:10,599 Speaker 1: to another movie, Dave Real Quick Casino. Oh yeah, Robert 100 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:15,600 Speaker 1: de Niro and Joe Pesci and that infamous scene where 101 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 1: Joe Pesci has summoned Robert de Niro to meet him 102 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: in the desert, and you can hear the voice over 103 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 1: that de Niro says. He says, I hate meetings in 104 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 1: the desert, and it's something like nothing good ever happens 105 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: in the desert. And dude, I got to tell you 106 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: the person. You know. Here we go again with our 107 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 1: the person we always talk about, the finder. Can you 108 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 1: imagine this individual, because it was a finder that is 109 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 1: like out in the desert and he's seeing these mounds 110 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 1: out there and you're thinking, what in the world is this? 111 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, And the thing is, Joe, is that because you 112 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:01,000 Speaker 2: even said they look like they don't look like anything 113 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 2: one would expect from cremaines. But here's the part that 114 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:07,600 Speaker 2: gets me, and I really, I mean, there's so much 115 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 2: about this that's wrong. Okay, But Joe, you explained to 116 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 2: me how difficult it is to render a body down 117 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 2: because we've had a number of cases where somebody decided, 118 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 2: you know, they would dispose of the person they murdered 119 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 2: by chopping them up and putting them on a fire 120 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 2: or what have you. And I didn't know, I really 121 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 2: didn't until we started talking about how difficult it is 122 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 2: and what is required to render a body to that 123 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 2: status of cremaines. So Joe first let's start there. The 124 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 2: fact that they're out there and there's three hundred of 125 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:47,240 Speaker 2: them means a lot of things. These could be unclaimed 126 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 2: bodies that somebody had to get rid of. I don't 127 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 2: know what they do with paupers anymore. You know, we 128 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 2: used to have a place where Potter's Field potters Field. Yeah, 129 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 2: I call it Popper's. I met Potter's Field, but. 130 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, no, you're right. Some people do say a paupers. Yeah. 131 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 1: I think traditionally it's Potter's and there's been a I 132 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 1: don't know, it sounds like a great a great title 133 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 1: for a podcast. 134 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 2: Actually sounds like something out of a movie that Jimmy 135 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 2: Stewart would have been in where he. 136 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 1: Was, or Charles Dickens novel or some of the potters 137 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 1: Field you know, maybe even Stephen King. I don't know, 138 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 1: but yeah, potters Field traditionally. And it's really sad because 139 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 1: working at Corners offices, in m E's offices, I have 140 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 1: been to Pottersfield. I've literally seen bodies laid out in 141 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 1: rows where you collect the bodies over a period of 142 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 1: time and you wait until you can have a big burial. 143 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 1: And a lot of people don't realize that that was done. 144 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 1: I doubt it's done as much anymore. But here's one 145 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 1: here's one thing that they have stopped doing in the 146 00:08:57,160 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 1: medical legal world. And somebody might prove me wrong on this, 147 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 1: but if I'm not mistaken, I don't think corners and 148 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: medical examiners cremate bodies anymore because because the fact that 149 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 1: there's always a chance that a family will show up, 150 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 1: all we got to do, We've talked about it before. 151 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:24,960 Speaker 1: All we got to do is talk about Michael Jordan's daddy. 152 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:27,840 Speaker 1: You know what a train wreck that was for that 153 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:31,439 Speaker 1: poor corner up to Marlboro County, South Carolina, and you 154 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 1: look at that and you think, yikes. You know so 155 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:39,200 Speaker 1: many times I think the fallback position when you're talking 156 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 1: about and it's generally called indigent burial, is the way 157 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 1: it's referred to as, and there will be I've tried 158 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 1: to describe what this is like to many people, but 159 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 1: if you've ever the worst job ever had my life 160 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 1: was working at Pigley Wiggily. I hated that job. I 161 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 1: was a kid and I was the stock guy. I 162 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 1: had to get in early in the morning unload trucks. 163 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:08,319 Speaker 1: But on the back of eighteen wheelers. They've got that 164 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 1: numbered aluminum tag that actually has to be cut open, 165 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 1: and it's there for the protection of the goods inside 166 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 1: of the vehicle, and they're very resilient well with Traditionally, 167 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 1: with indigent remains, you take this band and it's an 168 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:33,320 Speaker 1: identifying band, and you put one around the ankle, and 169 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:36,840 Speaker 1: you put one around the wrist of the body that's 170 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:39,440 Speaker 1: going to go into a body bag. It might go 171 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:44,080 Speaker 1: into like a really cheap casket, but sometimes they'll just 172 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 1: put them. They used to put them directly into the 173 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 1: ground in a bag like that. But you knew that 174 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 1: the bodies would be organized so that if any question 175 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 1: came up with the band, you'd be able to say, okay, 176 00:10:55,559 --> 00:11:00,320 Speaker 1: this is case number zero zero zero eighty five nine, 177 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 1: all right, and we can go back. You can pull 178 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:09,440 Speaker 1: back the earth, find that find that I don't know 179 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 1: that vessel that the body is contained, and pull it 180 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:15,560 Speaker 1: out and go back and do further you know, further examination. 181 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 1: You do that with with cremains. What are you going 182 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 1: to tag with cremains? It's like trying to tag talcum 183 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 1: chunky talcum powder. There's nothing you know that you can 184 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:28,440 Speaker 1: really do with it. And this has got to pose 185 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 1: a huge problem, you know, for for whoever is actually 186 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:36,079 Speaker 1: looking into this case, which again is a very very 187 00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 1: curious thing. 188 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 2: The one thing they did determine is that they're they're human. Okay, 189 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 2: that was the first thing they had to decide, because 190 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 2: they haven't mentioned much about the finder, and you've got 191 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 2: me so focused on the finder now, because it's like, okay, well, okay, 192 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:56,440 Speaker 2: why were you fifty nine minutes outside of Las Vegas 193 00:11:56,480 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 2: in the desert where you stumbled upon three hundred piles 194 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:04,840 Speaker 2: of dirt you thought, and yet you knew it was 195 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 2: something other than that, So you've called it in. What 196 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:12,120 Speaker 2: were you doing out there that we can legitimately buy 197 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 2: into because I'm thinking you were looking for a spot, 198 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:19,440 Speaker 2: you know, you don't just fall into this area. But Joe, 199 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:22,720 Speaker 2: to go to all the effort to create cremains to 200 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:26,319 Speaker 2: render a body down, it takes time, it takes effort, 201 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:30,640 Speaker 2: it takes intentionality. It's not something that accidentally happens by 202 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 2: ignoring a dead body. It doesn't just you know, if 203 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 2: you don't have them stacked up and you just kind 204 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:38,840 Speaker 2: of lock the door and walk away and then you 205 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:40,960 Speaker 2: come back a couple of weeks later and there's a 206 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 2: nice little pile of dust. This is something based on 207 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 2: the way they were found. Yep, this was actually rendered down, 208 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:51,400 Speaker 2: put in the bag, and nobody picked it up or 209 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 2: they had no place to send it. And so the 210 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 2: best plan again. And now I'm thinking, you spent the 211 00:12:56,679 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 2: time and effort to render the body down into this form, 212 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:04,080 Speaker 2: and you couldn't come up with anything better than this. 213 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 2: You couldn't put it in a You could not put 214 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 2: it in a big ziplock freezer bag and dig a 215 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 2: hole and put it in there and mark it somehow. 216 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:16,320 Speaker 2: I mean, you couldn't even think to do that. You 217 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:20,319 Speaker 2: just left Cremaine sitting out to be caught in the 218 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:23,160 Speaker 2: breeze in the desert to blend in. If that was 219 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:24,839 Speaker 2: your goal, White, you just spread him and kick it over. 220 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 2: If nobody knows and nobody cares. I really have to wonder, Joe, 221 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 2: there are so many other things you could have done 222 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:33,080 Speaker 2: that would have Look man, if I came looking for 223 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 2: Uncle Herman three years after he died and you're the 224 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 2: one that got rid of him, you just I don't 225 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:39,880 Speaker 2: know what happened to him. Nobody claimed him. I don't 226 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 2: know what happens you know that's the only answer. You 227 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 2: didn't come and pick your uncle up, Dave. It's not 228 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 2: my fault, you know. But here we have piles out there. 229 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 1: Let me throw it. Let me throw one more thing. Yeah, 230 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 1: we're talking about the desert. You know what else is 231 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:57,240 Speaker 1: near Vegas. Let's I guess an hour away. It's Lake Mead. Yeah, 232 00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 1: you've got Hoover Dam, you got the Colorado River. Dude. 233 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:05,360 Speaker 1: You know, if I looked at this and I was thinking, 234 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 1: why why would you go to this particular spot and 235 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 1: do this and leave? And this is literally evidence. And 236 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 1: when you talk about these piles, Dave, this is something 237 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 1: and I know, I know what you what you had 238 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 1: mentioned about, you know, the passing of your mama and 239 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 1: when you got to examine those remains and when you 240 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 1: see that. But let's let's face it. What's intriguing about 241 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 1: this to me from a physical evidence standpoint is the 242 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 1: fact is the fact that you've got something going on 243 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 1: here that I'm going to refer to as containment because 244 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 1: you do not get neat piles like this unless you 245 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 1: have this thing in a transportable vessel where you're going 246 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 1: to go with these and set them out. There's another 247 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:05,520 Speaker 1: fact actor here too. Now I mentioned wind. Design ain't 248 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 1: got a lot of water, as we well know, what 249 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:17,160 Speaker 1: it does have is wind. How is it how is 250 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 1: it that these piles have seemingly remained rather uniformed. I 251 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 1: don't know. I think one of the elements here that 252 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 1: I'm really concerned about and really interested in is time. 253 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:38,640 Speaker 1: Time as it applies to were these things all deposited 254 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:54,680 Speaker 1: at the same time? I was trying to think back. 255 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 1: I know that our friends out in the Vegas area, 256 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:04,040 Speaker 1: which by the way, makes me think we're going to 257 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:08,760 Speaker 1: be traveling to Vegas in a few months. Crime Con 258 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:13,280 Speaker 1: is meeting there twenty twenty six, is it already, Tommy Man? Yeah, 259 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 1: so yeah, we'll be heading back out that way. Maybe 260 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 1: you and I can run us a car and go 261 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 1: out to the desert. Yeah I got out of the desert. 262 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 1: But you know, the NERO say is not too or at 263 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 1: least his character so but anyway, yeah, so you ditched me. 264 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 2: A few minutes ago, I set up the whole thing 265 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 2: because we were doing an episode. I don't remember which 266 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 2: one it was, but it was one of the episodes 267 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:39,120 Speaker 2: where somebody tried to burn a Bavodi and they were 268 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:42,040 Speaker 2: not successful at and so actually you know what it was, 269 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 2: It was our least favorite JJ and Tiley. Oh yeah, yeah, 270 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:49,440 Speaker 2: that was the first time when you actually explained the 271 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 2: process because they tried to burn Yeah, Tyly and Joe 272 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 2: knowing what it goes into it and knowing that to 273 00:16:56,400 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 2: get cremains like this they did and do this in 274 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:04,399 Speaker 2: a backyard burn pie. So talk to me about what 275 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 2: goes into it, because this is a whole thing. It's 276 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:08,840 Speaker 2: not something it's not something you could do with your 277 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:11,919 Speaker 2: granny three hundred and fifteen times over just saying it 278 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:12,920 Speaker 2: didn't happen like that. 279 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 1: No, No, here's the thing with cremation. First off, there 280 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 1: is a huge chunk of time that is involved in this. 281 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:33,359 Speaker 1: It's not something see how can I It's not like 282 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 1: you've got a though there is kind of a conveyor 283 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:42,120 Speaker 1: belt process. It's not like you're just kind of pushing 284 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:46,480 Speaker 1: something into an oven and it quickly comes out the 285 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 1: other end. That's not the way this works, all right. 286 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 1: First off, you have to have a crematory that is 287 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 1: up to the task. If we reflect back in tom 288 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 1: and you know, we did an episode on the tri 289 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:08,760 Speaker 1: Tri State crematory debacle I urge anybody here within sound 290 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:10,960 Speaker 1: of my voice to go look that up, not just 291 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:12,720 Speaker 1: my episode, but just look it up, because it's one 292 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:16,399 Speaker 1: of the most ghastly things that's ever happened in the South. 293 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:21,639 Speaker 1: I think as far as the dead are concerned that 294 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:25,920 Speaker 1: crematory that guy had tried to actually hooked up hook 295 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:32,440 Speaker 1: up propane tanks to his crematory to make it operate. 296 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:36,159 Speaker 1: That was despicable. It's disgusting. It's absolutely one of the 297 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 1: most disgusting things. And of course he propane does not 298 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:43,960 Speaker 1: burn as hot, you know, as like natural gas, and 299 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 1: you have to have an ongoing gas supply for crematory. 300 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:50,360 Speaker 1: We're not talking about building fires here. We're not talking 301 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 1: about a funeral pyre. So I bet you just thought 302 00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:58,240 Speaker 1: of a door song when I said that, didn't you. 303 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:03,680 Speaker 1: So oh you man. Yeah. So we're not talking about 304 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 1: building a wooden structure to consume a body. We're talking 305 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:12,440 Speaker 1: about a containment system. And it is truly a containment system. 306 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 1: And the fact that you have to meet certain EPA 307 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:20,280 Speaker 1: regulations and you have to be literally trained and certified 308 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:25,159 Speaker 1: in order to do this. There's all kinds of checks 309 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 1: and balances like you can get a visit from the 310 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:31,159 Speaker 1: EPA or the state version of that, and you have 311 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 1: to be up to date. So it's not something that 312 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 1: just like somebody can just go out and do so. 313 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:41,080 Speaker 1: In order to make this happen, A lot of it 314 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 1: has to do with the mass of the body, all right, 315 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 1: And it makes sense, right, So the smaller the body, 316 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:51,359 Speaker 1: the smaller remains, the shorter amount of time it's going 317 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:52,280 Speaker 1: to take to consume it. 318 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:55,359 Speaker 2: What if you're really fat, I mean, this is the 319 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:58,520 Speaker 2: nicest well possible. I mean, really a fat person, you know, 320 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:01,359 Speaker 2: with a lot of just water weight and flood. I 321 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:03,480 Speaker 2: mean it burns off, it does. 322 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:05,800 Speaker 1: But you know, there are actually stories out there. I 323 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:08,080 Speaker 1: don't know how many of them are true and how 324 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 1: many are kind of anecdotal, but they have had the 325 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 1: equivalent of grease fires and incrematories where it flames over, 326 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:20,480 Speaker 1: which is it just seems to me that would be 327 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:25,760 Speaker 1: an absolute nightmare. You know, where you have you have bodies. 328 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:28,360 Speaker 2: The crematorium guy in there doing it is his mother 329 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 2: in law that he's having to take care of, and 330 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 2: he says, see, I told you where it's going. 331 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:36,240 Speaker 1: You see it's bad, it really is. It's there's so 332 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 1: much and you know, and I've and to give you 333 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:43,280 Speaker 1: an idea, I participated in autopsies of people that were, 334 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 1: let's you say, way way up in the triple digits 335 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:50,920 Speaker 1: and weight. That's about as far as I'll go with it. 336 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:55,679 Speaker 1: And it is those are the toughest cases in the 337 00:20:55,720 --> 00:21:01,240 Speaker 1: autopsy room to open because the size of the body, 338 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:04,680 Speaker 1: the size of the body. When you actually make that incision, 339 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:10,199 Speaker 1: you see the full thickness of the fat layer. And 340 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:12,800 Speaker 1: I'm not talking about like SubQ fat. I'm talking about 341 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:16,119 Speaker 1: the full thickness of particularly belly fat. I've seen it. 342 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:22,640 Speaker 1: I've seen probably the thickness up to eight to nine 343 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 1: inches in depth of fat. And it is problematic. But 344 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 1: all of that has to be contained within within this structure, 345 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:39,680 Speaker 1: within the crematory itself, and it has to burn. We're 346 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 1: talking I mentioned three digits with weight, we're talking about 347 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:50,359 Speaker 1: four digits now with temperature. We're talking sustained fourteen hundred degrees. 348 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:53,240 Speaker 1: If you can begin to kind of wrap your brain 349 00:21:53,320 --> 00:22:00,680 Speaker 1: around that, and inside inside of the structure sure itself. 350 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:04,520 Speaker 1: Inside of the crematory, there are these little gas jets 351 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 1: that line this thing, and so they're blasting out a 352 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:13,400 Speaker 1: flame and it's a directed flame at the subject that's 353 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:18,359 Speaker 1: contained within it. And this has to keep going. It 354 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:22,440 Speaker 1: has to be monitored, and over a period of time 355 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:26,880 Speaker 1: they will inspect it to see if the rendering has 356 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:31,720 Speaker 1: taken place, because just because the body might be rendered, 357 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 1: it might be rendered down. The task is not over 358 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:43,719 Speaker 1: with because as the body comes out, what is initially 359 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:52,479 Speaker 1: taken off of the belt itself goes into an auger, 360 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:55,919 Speaker 1: and the auger spins looks like a gigantic screw. They 361 00:22:56,000 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 1: used to use opposing I've seen opposing stones, these round 362 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:03,240 Speaker 1: stones that roll in opposite directions, and it's kind of 363 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:05,880 Speaker 1: like a if you think about like a stone crusher, 364 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 1: but it's primarily augurs and they go around and round 365 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:11,879 Speaker 1: and around it does it kind of looks like a 366 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 1: screw or a drill bit, only it's tapered and the 367 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:20,800 Speaker 1: cremains are essentially crushed in here down to finer you know, 368 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 1: finer elements. You're still not You're still not going to 369 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:28,840 Speaker 1: get rid of any kind of all of the skeletal sample. 370 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 1: It's just it's not going to happen. And teeth are 371 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,439 Speaker 1: the worst. So and the other thing that they will do, 372 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:39,320 Speaker 1: they'll go through and if they're like any kind of 373 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:45,800 Speaker 1: medical devices, something that has not been completely rendered down, 374 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:51,199 Speaker 1: those things will actually be removed and taken out, you know, 375 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:54,120 Speaker 1: things like you know, titanium screws and all that kind 376 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:57,119 Speaker 1: of stuff. You know, if people have had surgeries, wires 377 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 1: I've seen I think I've seen pacemakers before. If I'm 378 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:06,359 Speaker 1: not mistaken, I might be. But the leads for the 379 00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 1: pacemaker will be burned off, So yeah, it's and then 380 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 1: after that happens, the cremains as they are are then taken, 381 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:23,720 Speaker 1: they're bagged, and then whatever kind of I keep using 382 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:27,520 Speaker 1: this term conveyance, I guess that the family chooses whether 383 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,200 Speaker 1: it's some kind of really ornate box or it's a 384 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:34,080 Speaker 1: very simple little thing. They'll be placed in there, and 385 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:36,960 Speaker 1: you know they'll be made available to the family after 386 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:38,959 Speaker 1: a period of time. You know, they can come and 387 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,400 Speaker 1: retrieve these and you get plaques put on them, all 388 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 1: these sorts of things. What's really fascinating about this, Dave, 389 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 1: just and I, if you don't mind, just indulge me 390 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:53,840 Speaker 1: for a second and I will I will kind of 391 00:24:55,280 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 1: tell you this. In America. In America, the US, there 392 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 1: are approximately ten five hundred crematories nationwide in the US. Okay, 393 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 1: in Nevada, there are as you can imagine, fewer than that. 394 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 1: There's fifty six. What have I What have I told 395 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:30,919 Speaker 1: you in the past, Dave, Maybe I've told this to 396 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:35,679 Speaker 1: my students. Haven't mentioned this to you. When we do 397 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 1: an investigation in forensics, I like to use the idea 398 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,639 Speaker 1: of a big funnel where we've got all of this 399 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,680 Speaker 1: data that we kind of dump into the opening of 400 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:49,479 Speaker 1: the funnel. And if you think about how funnel works, 401 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:54,239 Speaker 1: it narrows as it gets down further and further. So 402 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:57,199 Speaker 1: if these bodies, and this is a big gift, but 403 00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:04,280 Speaker 1: if these bodies are originating in Nevada, well, there are 404 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 1: only fifty six license crematories, so our field automatically is 405 00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:18,360 Speaker 1: narrowed down because I don't know of any other organization 406 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:27,600 Speaker 1: that is permitted under law to cremate bodies unless we've 407 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,920 Speaker 1: got something really really weird and bizarre going on here, 408 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 1: you know, where I don't know somebody has their own 409 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 1: crematory that's operating illegally and they're taking bodies. That's been 410 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:42,680 Speaker 1: one of my biggest big It's not really a fear 411 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:45,080 Speaker 1: that I have, but I've thought about it from an 412 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 1: investigative standpoint, what would be what would be the perfect 413 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:51,040 Speaker 1: thing if you wanted to get rid of bodies? Right, 414 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:54,000 Speaker 1: you know, if you had, first off, you had a 415 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 1: funeral home, you had access to do And we've heard 416 00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:00,119 Speaker 1: and maybe this is kind of a fictional device, but 417 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:01,720 Speaker 1: where you can put a false bottom in a in 418 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,520 Speaker 1: a casket and then bury a person on top of 419 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:06,960 Speaker 1: put them in a casket, you know, Grandma goes on 420 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:09,240 Speaker 1: top of somebody that they're trying to get rid of 421 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 1: and they bury it sounds like that's not real. I 422 00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:17,040 Speaker 1: don't know if it is. Again, anecdotally, it's claimed that 423 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:23,120 Speaker 1: that has occurred before, particularly when you think about you know, uh, 424 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,080 Speaker 1: I guess the term used to be mobbed up if 425 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 1: there was some funeral you know, home that was had 426 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,760 Speaker 1: some kind of loose attachment to some under underworld figures 427 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:33,680 Speaker 1: or something. You know. 428 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,920 Speaker 2: You never watched the Netflix series Ozark, did you? 429 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:41,040 Speaker 1: No? I did? I watched part of it, Yeah. 430 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:42,480 Speaker 2: To the part where they owned the funeral home. 431 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:47,120 Speaker 1: Uh. Yeah, it's coming back to me. Maybe that's where 432 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,119 Speaker 1: I'm remembering this from. It seems like that it seems 433 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:54,680 Speaker 1: like the perfect thing, you know, and yeah, but you'd 434 00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:58,600 Speaker 1: have to again, you'd have to have access. Okay, let 435 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 1: me throw this one out to you again, reflecting back 436 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:04,480 Speaker 1: to one of our previous episodes, one of my favorite episodes. 437 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 1: It's the case out of I don't know if you 438 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,760 Speaker 1: recall this, It was the case out of Philly where 439 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 1: they had the abandoned graveyard or cemetery that was shut 440 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:19,399 Speaker 1: down because it was too full and the biker gang 441 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:25,000 Speaker 1: was using going into the crypt in there and putting 442 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:30,520 Speaker 1: remains down the ground. Again, great episode, fascinating case. So yeah, 443 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:34,119 Speaker 1: again having access to that location. I'm not saying that 444 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 1: the the you know, that the malevolent people involved in 445 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,080 Speaker 1: that case had, you know, had anything to do with 446 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:44,800 Speaker 1: the funeral, but I think that investigatively we're going to 447 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:49,760 Speaker 1: get more answers here, just thinking about kind of how 448 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 1: this is, how this is kind of no pun intended 449 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:56,720 Speaker 1: parsed out investigatively, how do you do it? Because here's 450 00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 1: the thing. You know, technically, technically, these cremains don't necessarily 451 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:10,360 Speaker 1: fall and I found this very fascinating, Dave. They don't 452 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:15,000 Speaker 1: fall under the jurisdiction of the medical examiner. At a corner, 453 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:19,000 Speaker 1: this is a state health department issue. At this point 454 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:23,160 Speaker 1: in time. They found something out there, Dave, that gave 455 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:27,320 Speaker 1: them an indication first off that they were cremains, and 456 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:31,720 Speaker 1: secondly that they were human cremains. So that means that 457 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:36,120 Speaker 1: they had to take sample. Because trust me, if you 458 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:40,719 Speaker 1: think it's tough to get an ID on an intact body, 459 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:46,360 Speaker 1: even one that is severely decomposed and he tried nothing 460 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:51,920 Speaker 1: until you've tried to get an ID on cremated human remains. 461 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:11,760 Speaker 1: What to do? What to do in Nevada? A lot 462 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 1: of people spend their time in Nevada, uh, you know, 463 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:18,000 Speaker 1: going down Strip and used to get a really good 464 00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:22,479 Speaker 1: meal in Las Vegas. Sheep, You know them days are gone, Bubba. 465 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:25,280 Speaker 1: I used to think, Man, I can't wait to get 466 00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:28,600 Speaker 1: out to Nevada and grab grab, grab some lostster. 467 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 2: While It's so funny how the older you get, Yeah, 468 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:33,360 Speaker 2: things really change when you're younger. The idea of going 469 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 2: to Vegas is one thing. Then you hit a certain 470 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:38,840 Speaker 2: age that's like, yeah, the buffet, come on, hey, I 471 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:41,000 Speaker 2: want to ask it a kind of quick things here, 472 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 2: all right. At the end of World War Two, Patton 473 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:53,320 Speaker 2: actually forced townspeople from Buymar to actually tour Bukenvalalve concentration camp. 474 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:57,760 Speaker 2: And the reason is these because they were exterminating an 475 00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:02,200 Speaker 2: entire race and then some by putting them through the fire. 476 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 2: They were burning these bodies down and creating cremains, and 477 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:10,400 Speaker 2: the stacks would blow and on certain days the gardens 478 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:15,520 Speaker 2: would be covered with this white powdery ash. And he 479 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:18,920 Speaker 2: was disgusted by how the townspeople acted like they didn't 480 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 2: know anything. And he's like, there's no way you can 481 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:24,280 Speaker 2: see thousands of people coming in here and not leaving, 482 00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:26,880 Speaker 2: and the camp not overgrowing with people, and you know, 483 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:28,560 Speaker 2: you got to put two and two together. So he 484 00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:31,640 Speaker 2: marched them through. He made them come through there and 485 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:36,000 Speaker 2: walk through the ovens, and there were partially bodies that 486 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:41,280 Speaker 2: were not totally broken down. Anyway, That's what's going through 487 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:47,560 Speaker 2: my head is we have three hundred plus piles of people. 488 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:51,440 Speaker 2: Each one of these piles of cremains is a person. Now, 489 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:54,800 Speaker 2: if you were just going to dispose of somebody, Joe, 490 00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:57,959 Speaker 2: this is not how you would do it. I mean this, 491 00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:02,160 Speaker 2: even though there are three hundred bodies placed in you know, 492 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:05,040 Speaker 2: their cremaine form out there in the desert an hour 493 00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:07,720 Speaker 2: away from Vegas, south of Vegas, by the way, and 494 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:09,520 Speaker 2: they seem to be from what you and I saw, 495 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,000 Speaker 2: they were actually put there in some kind of an order. 496 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:18,920 Speaker 2: Whoever did it took care with what they were doing. 497 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:24,480 Speaker 2: But I can't get past you know, I'm having a 498 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:26,880 Speaker 2: little trouble with the why would you go to all 499 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:29,440 Speaker 2: that trouble if all you're going to do is put 500 00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:32,720 Speaker 2: these people's cremaines out there in the desert to be 501 00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:36,120 Speaker 2: blown away, to just go to the you know that 502 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:38,200 Speaker 2: makes you know, a dust to dust, ashes to ashes, 503 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:40,360 Speaker 2: dust to dust. I get it, But it doesn't seem 504 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,200 Speaker 2: like you're being the most respectful in this regard by 505 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,720 Speaker 2: allowing the wind to just blow. But we know they've 506 00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:50,800 Speaker 2: identified the remains as human, which I didn't know you could. 507 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,880 Speaker 2: I really didn't. I mean, can you And this is 508 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:56,800 Speaker 2: kind of the deal breaker here? Could you if you 509 00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:01,040 Speaker 2: can identify them as human, could you you get a 510 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:04,640 Speaker 2: DNA sample, partial tooth or something? Yeah? 511 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:07,960 Speaker 1: Good, good, good question, my friend. Well, obviously I think 512 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:13,480 Speaker 1: that the now, look, this goes back to something quite interesting. 513 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:15,120 Speaker 1: I don't know if I've ever talked about this on 514 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:19,880 Speaker 1: body bags. Do you know that there are three three 515 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:22,880 Speaker 1: types of identification or let me see three levels of 516 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:26,320 Speaker 1: identication identification and we can kind of write this down. 517 00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:30,440 Speaker 1: Maybe we can do an entire episode on how does 518 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:33,440 Speaker 1: the medical examiner of your bodies identified? But just as 519 00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:38,000 Speaker 1: kind of like a little tease right here, we have 520 00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:46,720 Speaker 1: positive identification, okay, where we have verified scientifically and unfortunately 521 00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:49,280 Speaker 1: visually many times, which I'm not a big fan of 522 00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:53,000 Speaker 1: visual identification. First off, I don't trust government IDs as 523 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:56,320 Speaker 1: far as I can throw them. I preach this to 524 00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:58,479 Speaker 1: my kids at Jack State all the time. You know, 525 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:01,400 Speaker 1: it's a great place to start art. But if you 526 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:03,640 Speaker 1: pull a license out of somebody's pocket and you try 527 00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:08,000 Speaker 1: to compare it, there's some horrific stories out there about misidentification. 528 00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:10,719 Speaker 1: That's really what we all do an episode on. It's 529 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:17,720 Speaker 1: quite chilling, but positive identification. And then we have unidentified 530 00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:22,200 Speaker 1: bodies okay, some that to this point have failed to 531 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:26,120 Speaker 1: have been identified. They're not going to be identified well 532 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:30,399 Speaker 1: unless our friends at author them do it. And then 533 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:34,160 Speaker 1: here's the one that really gets people. There is an 534 00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:40,359 Speaker 1: ide that is called presumptive identification, and it's something that 535 00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:46,719 Speaker 1: people are not necessarily familiar with. Years ago, I had 536 00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:49,120 Speaker 1: a lady that was locked up in a house. I 537 00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:53,440 Speaker 1: actually wrote about this in Blood Beneath My Feet in 538 00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:58,960 Speaker 1: case really affected me. And she had no living relatives. 539 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,800 Speaker 1: She was she worked as a bus driver in Atlanta, 540 00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:09,680 Speaker 1: and we presumptively identified her body and she had been 541 00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:14,320 Speaker 1: now holding your hat. This this is really disgusting. Uh. 542 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:19,880 Speaker 1: She lived in the house with her dogs, m m yeah, 543 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:23,040 Speaker 1: and they consumed her down to her waist. There was 544 00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:29,359 Speaker 1: nothing left. And the case really affected me as an investigator. 545 00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:33,360 Speaker 1: It's one of those things that you don't ever get past. 546 00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:40,000 Speaker 1: We even had difficulty, uh uh, just trying to find 547 00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:43,640 Speaker 1: a dentist that she may have gone to. It turns 548 00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:46,800 Speaker 1: out she didn't have a dentist. Uh. And so because 549 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:49,680 Speaker 1: she was in a locked house, her keys were there, 550 00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:53,239 Speaker 1: her money was there, no signs of fourth century, and 551 00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:55,680 Speaker 1: her car was still there and she hadn't shown up 552 00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:59,279 Speaker 1: for work in weeks. I'll give you a hint, there's 553 00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:02,840 Speaker 1: no future instigators in the postal service because she had 554 00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:06,480 Speaker 1: piles and piles of mail stacked up outside of her house. 555 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:09,479 Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, so many piles of mail 556 00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:12,840 Speaker 1: that several of them had actually fallen off of the 557 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:16,960 Speaker 1: porch into the gutter adjacent. But they just kept stacking 558 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:19,520 Speaker 1: up the mail and she'd been in there for months 559 00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:24,640 Speaker 1: and months and it was problematic for us, and I 560 00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:28,359 Speaker 1: hated doing that. But we presumptively identified her, and what 561 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:34,120 Speaker 1: that means is that we don't really have anything substantive 562 00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:37,200 Speaker 1: to go with. We looked at her body, what remained 563 00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:39,960 Speaker 1: of her body, and I could say, yes, this was 564 00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:43,120 Speaker 1: an African American female because we had soft tissue. We 565 00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:46,600 Speaker 1: knew that African American female resided at this address, she 566 00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:51,000 Speaker 1: was domiciled there. We knew that she was human. But 567 00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:56,120 Speaker 1: what are you going to go with with these cremains? Well, 568 00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:59,360 Speaker 1: my thought is I wonder if they have taken the 569 00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:03,200 Speaker 1: time to go to eat. And because each one of 570 00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:07,160 Speaker 1: these piles presumptively represents an individual person and you know 571 00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:10,800 Speaker 1: here on body bags we are advocates for the debt. Okay, 572 00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:16,440 Speaker 1: so each person is entitled to their ID and to 573 00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:21,560 Speaker 1: be honored. Okay, how did they have they gotten each pile? 574 00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:25,200 Speaker 1: First off, presumptively ID? Do we know that that is 575 00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:29,799 Speaker 1: in fact human? What was contained in each pile? Do 576 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:32,960 Speaker 1: we have major bits of bone that were contained in 577 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:40,440 Speaker 1: there that from a morphology standpoint, you can have a 578 00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:44,640 Speaker 1: forensic anthropologist look at each little fragment say yes, definitively 579 00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:49,120 Speaker 1: this is a bone. Okay, this is human bone. And 580 00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:52,719 Speaker 1: then was there any dentician left in any of these 581 00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:56,600 Speaker 1: piles you had mentioned a you had mentioned maybe a 582 00:37:56,640 --> 00:38:02,560 Speaker 1: partial tooth. What were their intact teeth at all? And 583 00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:09,600 Speaker 1: if they were intact, could those teeth have withstood the 584 00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:13,160 Speaker 1: fourteen hundred degree its variable, it's not always going to 585 00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:20,240 Speaker 1: be four Could those teeth have survived or the DNA 586 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:23,080 Speaker 1: contained in there survived because that's the only place you're 587 00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:25,000 Speaker 1: going to get DYNA. I would think I might be 588 00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:26,920 Speaker 1: off base there, but I think that that's going to 589 00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:29,759 Speaker 1: be your number one shot. Do you think that it's 590 00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:35,600 Speaker 1: possible that they went in and did DNA extraction on teeth, 591 00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:38,839 Speaker 1: any kind of dentition that was left behind it, and 592 00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:42,360 Speaker 1: they were able to actually profile that case and create 593 00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:46,839 Speaker 1: create a profile on the person. I don't know. I 594 00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:52,000 Speaker 1: don't know if that's if that's possible because it's a 595 00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:56,960 Speaker 1: real head scratcher. Another piece to this dave that on 596 00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:02,640 Speaker 1: its surface is I guess kind of heartwarming but not really, 597 00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:08,200 Speaker 1: is that the state and medical examiner or they don't 598 00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:11,440 Speaker 1: have medical examiners in Nevada, forgive me. They have corners 599 00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:13,880 Speaker 1: and by the way, Clark County Corner is one of 600 00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:16,280 Speaker 1: the finest in the country. I mean, they're really good. 601 00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:18,560 Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, a lot of the stuff 602 00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:24,520 Speaker 1: that on that program CSI. You know, the corners spoken 603 00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:27,279 Speaker 1: about a lot, the one that takes place I've never 604 00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:29,880 Speaker 1: watched those programs, but the one that takes place in Vegas. 605 00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:33,840 Speaker 1: They're highly regarded. And not because the television show is 606 00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:39,360 Speaker 1: because they're damn professional. They're really good. This was not 607 00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:43,720 Speaker 1: the Corner's office going to collect these remains. This is actually, 608 00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:48,560 Speaker 1: and they're stated, they're mentioned in the article. They're actually 609 00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:54,840 Speaker 1: this mortuary service goes out and retrieves these remains. So 610 00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:56,960 Speaker 1: how does all of this work? I think is the 611 00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:01,080 Speaker 1: big question, because look, God bless people in the funeral industry, 612 00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:04,759 Speaker 1: But I got to tell you, I'm not looking to 613 00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:07,680 Speaker 1: the funeral industry to do the job of forensic scientists 614 00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:12,319 Speaker 1: because to this point, they have not validated. They've not 615 00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:17,919 Speaker 1: validated as to whether or not there's something nefarious going 616 00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:20,840 Speaker 1: on with each one of these little piles out there. 617 00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:23,239 Speaker 1: How do you run all of this down. I've got 618 00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:27,040 Speaker 1: to imagine that Davada somewhere because they haven't released a 619 00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:31,560 Speaker 1: lot of info yet, and maybe they will. They haven't 620 00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:34,040 Speaker 1: released a lot of info yet, but there's got to 621 00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:36,560 Speaker 1: be people, Dave, I would think that are scratching their 622 00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:40,080 Speaker 1: heads out there saying, oh my lord, this was What 623 00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:42,960 Speaker 1: do people say nowadays? This was not on my Bengo card? 624 00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:45,160 Speaker 1: You know? How do we move forward with this? 625 00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:48,879 Speaker 2: The thing about this that gets me is that if 626 00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:52,880 Speaker 2: this was a crematorium trying to get away with saving 627 00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:56,880 Speaker 2: money and giving families dirt instead, we wouldn't have cremains 628 00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:59,560 Speaker 2: in a pile in the desert if it was somebody. 629 00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:03,520 Speaker 2: Because what they've done here, they've done all the expensive, 630 00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:06,560 Speaker 2: hard part of the job, right. That part is what 631 00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:09,600 Speaker 2: has already been done. So we're not looking at a 632 00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:11,960 Speaker 2: criminal act in that regard that they were trying to 633 00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:14,919 Speaker 2: dodge going through like you know, you mentioned the guy 634 00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:18,359 Speaker 2: using the propane tanks to try to accomplish, you know, 635 00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:22,640 Speaker 2: doing a cremation that you know, ridiculous, but this was done. 636 00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:26,399 Speaker 2: Three hundred plus bodies have been cremated completely and here's 637 00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:29,040 Speaker 2: their pile. So the hard, expensive part of that job 638 00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:31,600 Speaker 2: is done. The next part is, here's your cremains, send 639 00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:34,160 Speaker 2: me the check, you know, or whatever takes place. And 640 00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:38,960 Speaker 2: so immediately I'm thinking this is something even worse. I mean, 641 00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:42,520 Speaker 2: all I can think of is I again, And we 642 00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:45,160 Speaker 2: talked about it a little bit ago. I thought, if 643 00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:48,360 Speaker 2: you have people who are indigen and can't afford a burial, 644 00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:50,799 Speaker 2: and we cremate them, you still have to have a 645 00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:54,759 Speaker 2: family that comes and collects the the cremains, and if 646 00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:57,399 Speaker 2: they don't, there should be a process for showing them 647 00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:01,200 Speaker 2: some respect in their final form. And that's not what's 648 00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:04,520 Speaker 2: being done here. So I'm thinking, if there is one 649 00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:06,880 Speaker 2: person in all of these, in the three hundred and 650 00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:09,759 Speaker 2: fourteen remains found so far, if they can find and 651 00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:12,640 Speaker 2: identify one, yep, yepes right one. 652 00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:15,600 Speaker 1: I got to tell you, I'm right now as you 653 00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:19,440 Speaker 1: and I speak, I'm sitting here and I am reading 654 00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:23,239 Speaker 1: Nevada Code section out of their law and just as 655 00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:25,040 Speaker 1: a point of reference, and I'll say it very slowly, 656 00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:27,440 Speaker 1: so anybody can go back and look at this under 657 00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:33,160 Speaker 1: NRS four or five to one dot seven hundred and 658 00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:35,920 Speaker 1: this is key day funeral homes and crematories. This is 659 00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:41,080 Speaker 1: for Nevada funeral homes and crematories. Must establish a clear 660 00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:46,440 Speaker 1: chain of custody. Upon arrival at the facility. The deceased 661 00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:51,160 Speaker 1: must be assigned a unique identification number, recorded on all 662 00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:57,560 Speaker 1: corresponding paperwork and attached to the body throughout throughout the 663 00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:01,640 Speaker 1: cremation process. The number is tip here we go. I 664 00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:04,400 Speaker 1: mentioned a few minutes ago on a metal tag or 665 00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:09,520 Speaker 1: bracelet that with stands you're ready for this high Temperatures's 666 00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:17,680 Speaker 1: that's actually required by law and in a continuance. And 667 00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:20,440 Speaker 1: I'm not going to hate people. I hate being read to, 668 00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:23,960 Speaker 1: but I just think that it's important a separate section. 669 00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:27,840 Speaker 1: This is in a C six four to two point 670 00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:32,359 Speaker 1: four three five facility. Now get this again. We're going 671 00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:39,040 Speaker 1: back for evidentiary issues here and responsibility. Facilities must maintain 672 00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:44,960 Speaker 1: detailed records including the deceased full legal name, date of birth, 673 00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:51,880 Speaker 1: date of death, and identifying physical characteristics. If discrepancies arise, 674 00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:58,120 Speaker 1: cremation must you ready must be postponed until identity is 675 00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:02,839 Speaker 1: conclusively verified. That's kind of plainly set out, and that's 676 00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:06,760 Speaker 1: why I go back to that kind of narrow number. 677 00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:11,359 Speaker 1: You know, fifty six, got fifty six. Now, let's see 678 00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:16,800 Speaker 1: the adjacent states there. I shouldn't have opened my mouth. 679 00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:22,640 Speaker 1: But the adjacent states, who has access to or who 680 00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:26,640 Speaker 1: has what other states had the quickest access to Nevada. 681 00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:28,800 Speaker 1: Could it be another state? 682 00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:33,600 Speaker 2: California, Arizona and New Mexico, Utah and Colorado. They're all around. 683 00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:37,719 Speaker 1: That confluence in that area. But I can't imagine driving 684 00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:40,919 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, Salt Lake City. I mean Salt 685 00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:47,160 Speaker 1: Lake City, forgive me, Las Vegas is down in the 686 00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:49,360 Speaker 1: southern part of the state. That's a long way to 687 00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:50,600 Speaker 1: drive if you're coming. 688 00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:53,600 Speaker 2: To me, sixty miles outside south of the south. 689 00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:58,239 Speaker 1: Oh, okay, there you go. So I don't know. I 690 00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:01,319 Speaker 1: mean this, I got to tell you. Out of all 691 00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:05,960 Speaker 1: the cases we've covered, this is special in the sense 692 00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:10,160 Speaker 1: that I think unless there is a very simple explanation 693 00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:14,239 Speaker 1: for this, and I can't imagine that the simple explanation 694 00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:19,320 Speaker 1: is going to be legal. Okay, are condoned under law. 695 00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:24,200 Speaker 1: This is an ultimate nightmare scenario when it comes to 696 00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:30,839 Speaker 1: death investigation because you have these unidentified remains that are 697 00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:37,520 Speaker 1: just kind of piled up neatly. For whatever that's worth, 698 00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:42,120 Speaker 1: I don't know what is this person of a fastidious ghoul. 699 00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:47,799 Speaker 1: I have no idea there's specific arrangement order to this thing. 700 00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:51,800 Speaker 1: I look at this day from a death investigator, forensics 701 00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:54,400 Speaker 1: you know standpoint, and I'm thinking the order of the 702 00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:59,120 Speaker 1: thing where they're trying to send a message. I'd love 703 00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:02,080 Speaker 1: to see one of these people that do profiling, you know, 704 00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:04,640 Speaker 1: dig into this. Can you imagine a profiler takes this 705 00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:06,759 Speaker 1: thing and looks at it and says, what can you 706 00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:09,960 Speaker 1: tell us about the order, about how these are arranged, 707 00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:13,040 Speaker 1: and that they would, you know, deposit these remains out 708 00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:15,640 Speaker 1: in the desert, you know like this. I don't know 709 00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:19,920 Speaker 1: this is You've got to promise me. You've got to 710 00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:23,040 Speaker 1: promise me that we're going to revisit this. I mean, 711 00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:29,240 Speaker 1: we've got to because this is a big mystery. 712 00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:30,120 Speaker 2: Find out anything. 713 00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:32,480 Speaker 1: I'll tell you, Yeah, please do, because I got to 714 00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:37,760 Speaker 1: tell you, man, out of all the cremation stories we've covered, 715 00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:41,960 Speaker 1: the burial stories, and my lord, we have had we 716 00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:45,319 Speaker 1: have had some stories recently about funeral homes and how 717 00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:50,200 Speaker 1: they are healing handling bodies. This I'm not going to 718 00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:53,239 Speaker 1: say it takes the cake, but dude, it's up there, 719 00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:58,720 Speaker 1: it's up there, and it is absolutely horrific. My heart 720 00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:02,960 Speaker 1: goes out to these families. Here's one more thing and 721 00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:08,759 Speaker 1: I'll kind of end on this note. Their families out 722 00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:14,040 Speaker 1: there and either you know, in the Nevada area or 723 00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:20,080 Speaker 1: any of the surrounding states that have family members where 724 00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:26,320 Speaker 1: they have walked into some fancy office somewhere, appointed with 725 00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:33,439 Speaker 1: nice furniture, soft music playing in the background. You see 726 00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:38,040 Speaker 1: it festooned with flowers. They've got the casket room, they've 727 00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:41,719 Speaker 1: got the little vases that you can put your loved 728 00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:45,480 Speaker 1: ones in. Somebody out there has walked into one of 729 00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:50,040 Speaker 1: these facilities and they have arranged to have their loved 730 00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:58,520 Speaker 1: one identified and cremated. And right now there are people 731 00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:01,960 Speaker 1: in Nevada, I can guarante to you that are reading 732 00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:04,799 Speaker 1: the story. They're watching on the news. They're gonna hear 733 00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:08,719 Speaker 1: body bags, and they're gonna be worried. They're gonna be 734 00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:13,040 Speaker 1: wringing their hands over this. Is that my mother? Is 735 00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:19,919 Speaker 1: that my father? Is that my child that was left abandoned? 736 00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:25,040 Speaker 1: And then Nevada desert? More to come on this case. 737 00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:31,280 Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is bodybags.