Speaker 1: Look out. It's only films to be buried with the Resurrection. Hello,
Speaker 1: and welcome to films to be buried with the Resurrection.
Speaker 1: My name is Brett Goldstein. I'm a comedian and actor,
Speaker 1: writer director Tamarine Man and I love film. As Ralph
Speaker 1: Waldo Emerson once said, don't be pushed by your problems,
Speaker 1: be led by your dreams. If you want to make
Speaker 1: a film about a love affair between a stand up
Speaker 1: and an opera singer who have a singing puppet baby,
Speaker 1: you very much should. Sparks did and it was fucking brilliant. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I love that film. That's fair enough, Ralph Waldo. Good point,
Speaker 1: well brought up. Every week I'm vite a special guest over.
Speaker 1: I tell them they've died. Then I get them to
Speaker 1: discuss their life through the films that meant the most
Speaker 1: of them. But not this week. This week I use
Speaker 1: my newly acquired shamanic powers to bring back a former
Speaker 1: guest from the dead and ask them twelve new questions.
Speaker 1: And this week it is the return of the Wonderful
Speaker 1: Podcast to Write a critic, presenter, and documentary filmmaker mister
Speaker 1: Mark Kermode. Check out the Patreon at patreon dot com
Speaker 1: Forward Slashback Goals Team, where you get an extra twenty
Speaker 1: minutes with Mark where we talk plain film secrets and
Speaker 1: many more wonderful things. Plus you get all of the
Speaker 1: episodes uncut, ad free and most of them as a video.
Speaker 1: Check it out over at patreon dot com. Forward Slashbreck
Speaker 1: Goals Team. Tickets are selling fast for the big huge
Speaker 1: live films to be Buried with live at the Hackney
Speaker 1: Empire on July second. Make sure you get your tickets
Speaker 1: for that from Plosive dot co dot uk and Hackney
Speaker 1: Empire dot co dot UK. So I said we were
Speaker 1: going to take a break, but here is the last
Speaker 1: episode before I'm going to take a break from the podcast,
Speaker 1: probably just a month off, who knows. Don't panic. It'll
Speaker 1: be fine. We'll all be together at the live show
Speaker 1: on July second. But this is a very special episode
Speaker 1: that are recorded with Mark Kermode last week and I thought,
Speaker 1: I can't hold this off. You guys need it. He's brilliant.
Speaker 1: You'll know who Mark Como Di is. You should listen
Speaker 1: to his new podcast, Comoda Mayo's Take, which is a
Speaker 1: brand new podcast which is exactly the same as their
Speaker 1: whole podcast and it's brilliant and you'll love it. This
Speaker 1: was such a lovely time. I really enjoyed talking to
Speaker 1: Mark again. I was very grateful for his time, and
Speaker 1: I think you're really going to love it. So that
Speaker 1: is it for now. I very much hope you enjoy
Speaker 1: episode two hundred and one of Films to be Buried
Speaker 1: with the Resurrection. Hello, and welcome to Films to be
Speaker 1: Buried with the Resurrection. It is I Brett Goldstein, and
Speaker 1: I am joined today by a writer, an actor, a
Speaker 1: movie star, a podcaster, a double podcaster, a triple podcaster,
Speaker 1: a non fictionalist, a fictionalist, a lover, a cold swimmer,
Speaker 1: and a musician and a skiffler and man, please welcome
Speaker 1: back to the show. Can't believe he's come back. It's
Speaker 1: only him here, he is. It's mister Mark. Hello, Brat.
Speaker 1: What's what's the actor thing? I don't think I'm an actor?
Speaker 1: Am I Are? You're in films? Are you're in Benjamin? No?
Speaker 1: But I mean as me that doesn't count. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: that takes him serious acting, as you know from Gordon Ramsey. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's like me and Simon Mayo were better at being
Speaker 1: me and Simon Mayow and Gordon Ramsey was at being
Speaker 1: Gordon Ramsey, which which was remarkable, although weirdly enough, just
Speaker 1: yesterday I was I was doing something yesterday in the
Speaker 1: studio and I bumped into Simon Amstell, who I haven't
Speaker 1: seen in forever. And of course, you know, usually if
Speaker 1: you want to get touch with getting a DM and
Speaker 1: on Twitter, because Simon doesn't do Twitter, and he's got
Speaker 1: a Twitter account, but he only ever puts up very
Speaker 1: sort of you know, short statements on it. And we
Speaker 1: talked about Benjamin and he doing it. He's doing another
Speaker 1: film now and so we talked about it and he
Speaker 1: and I said, yeah, I was very I was very
Speaker 1: pleased with it because me and Simon did come out
Speaker 1: of it looking like me and Simon, because I had
Speaker 1: worried that we were going to come out of it
Speaker 1: looking like Gordon Ramsey. It is hard to play yourself.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't. I would, I mean, because if you have
Speaker 1: thought about that, like it should be easy, but you'd
Speaker 1: be so self conscious if you're sending that, yeah, just
Speaker 1: do what you do, Suddenly you're questioning what your hands do,
Speaker 1: what your face does? I mean, they wonder Gordon Ramsey
Speaker 1: was a wreck. I mean, yes, it is. It is
Speaker 1: really good. I've done it more than once though, because
Speaker 1: I did it, at least I played a sort of
Speaker 1: I played a version of myself Darning. I played a
Speaker 1: version of myself in the absolutely fabulous special. I was
Speaker 1: some ARC critics sitting on a yeah, and I had
Speaker 1: a line that had a rude Dublon tondra about first
Speaker 1: being attracted to her Bush, which I have to say
Speaker 1: I didn't understand when I said the line. It was
Speaker 1: only when I saw it and go, oh, that's sorry.
Speaker 1: I didn't get it. And then there was a thing
Speaker 1: I always go back to this, because there was a
Speaker 1: thing on extras. Yes, when Ricky Gervais was doing one
Speaker 1: of the it was it was him being slagged off
Speaker 1: on Newsnight Review, and it was me and Mark Lawson
Speaker 1: and Germaine Greer. And then there was only only a
Speaker 1: tiny little bit in the background, you know, slagging him off,
Speaker 1: only a tiny little bit, and then he could he
Speaker 1: did another one, like a sort of viral thing in
Speaker 1: which he's on the sofa as well, and then we
Speaker 1: had to be ourselves for that as well. So we
Speaker 1: have a big career playing myself on screen to stretch
Speaker 1: big news for you. Many congratulations on your new podcast,
Speaker 1: and I love and is so different from the other podcast.
Speaker 1: Tell me about the key differences that really really really strike.
Speaker 1: It's a real bold, bold new concept. Because I was worried.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh man, they really going for it.
Speaker 1: They really mixing this up. And it is lovely to
Speaker 1: have you back. And then when you go in a month,
Speaker 1: it felt love It was exactly a month. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: was a month, and you know, and it was I mean,
Speaker 1: actually it was quite nice to just have a you
Speaker 1: have a little bit of time out because usually, I mean,
Speaker 1: I know that we're off sometimes, but you know, usually
Speaker 1: it's you know, it's kind of one thing off the
Speaker 1: obviously Simon's got his show that he was doing on
Speaker 1: Greatest Hit. So yeah, it was nice to have actually
Speaker 1: have a break and then come back again. But yeah,
Speaker 1: what what has stressed me out? Because there is one difference,
Speaker 1: which is you are now also talking about TV as
Speaker 1: someone who himself has a film podcast. I barely have
Speaker 1: time for the film. You're adding in TV to the mix,
Speaker 1: how you know, but okay, it's not okay, Just to
Speaker 1: be clear about this, Yeah, we are doing some TV
Speaker 1: we are doing. There's a whole thing on you know,
Speaker 1: the second podcast we just recorded. We got back to
Speaker 1: Simon getting off his bike about the phrase film adjacent TV,
Speaker 1: because we were trying to explain we're not we're not
Speaker 1: TV critics, We're just not. We will do some TV
Speaker 1: and it was usually some TV that has a kind
Speaker 1: of you know, a connection to what we know about
Speaker 1: through films like for example, Essex Serpent, which is directed
Speaker 1: by Claire Barnard. So consequently, you know, okay, fine, I
Speaker 1: mean usually in the space of any show we'd review
Speaker 1: me in a six seven movies, we'll probably do five
Speaker 1: or six movies and a TV thing, you know, But
Speaker 1: it's not it's we're absolutely not reviewing TV. You won't
Speaker 1: be getting the updates on what's happening in east At
Speaker 1: east Enders, I absolutely would love your updates on that day.
Speaker 1: You said you're going to get a lot of message.
Speaker 1: Hang on a second, you think that way, but casually
Speaker 1: that would be fair. It's funny because when I was young,
Speaker 1: when I was in Manchester in the eighties, I used
Speaker 1: there is a point to this story. Instantly, I used
Speaker 1: to do my laundry on a Sunday afternoon in a
Speaker 1: There was a laundrette in Whitworth Park, I think it
Speaker 1: was called, and it was a lawn, it was laundrette,
Speaker 1: and then it had next to it had a kind
Speaker 1: of a sitting room. You were not sitting ro room,
Speaker 1: but you could wait in and it had a telly
Speaker 1: in it. Well I didn't have a telly because I
Speaker 1: was in my kind of you know, militantly I'm not
Speaker 1: having a telly period. But it turned out that the
Speaker 1: east Enders Omnibus was on Sunday afternoon. I think it
Speaker 1: was between two and three, and I realized after a
Speaker 1: while that I was deliberately doing my laundry between two
Speaker 1: and three. And my friend feels like, what what you know,
Speaker 1: what's the thing? You know, we've got a no, I've
Speaker 1: got to do the laundry between two and three. And
Speaker 1: that was I think it was. That was what I
Speaker 1: think is the kind of hate, because it must have
Speaker 1: been you know, ange and dirty, dirty dad, that's right, Yes,
Speaker 1: that's right, yeah, yeah, and all that stuff, and I
Speaker 1: you know, and I used to kid myself that I
Speaker 1: just you know, I'm doing the laundry, but I wanted
Speaker 1: to making your clothes dirty so you had an excuse
Speaker 1: to go back. Yeah, no, I've it needs another ten
Speaker 1: minutes in the dry, Mark Kermode, I have brought you
Speaker 1: back to life because I like you. You have been resurrected.
Speaker 1: But what point in your life would you like to
Speaker 1: come back to now or sometime in the past. Is
Speaker 1: there a wrong you would like to ride all right
Speaker 1: to wrong? Let us know now, Mark Kermode. Please, it
Speaker 1: was really funny while you were doing that Voice of
Speaker 1: God thing, you went all glitchy, so it was like
Speaker 1: it was like the matrix, it was like the breats.
Speaker 1: So if I could come back at any time, when
Speaker 1: I come back to the present or to the past
Speaker 1: in your honestly to the present, yeah, honestly, I'd come
Speaker 1: to right now because I mean not because everything's hunky dory,
Speaker 1: because like any like any other time in your life,
Speaker 1: you know the things that are going well and things
Speaker 1: that aren't going so well. But um, I've got this
Speaker 1: sounds like a really naught thing to say, but I've
Speaker 1: got a really lovely family, and the last year has
Speaker 1: really shown me just how lovely they are. And I
Speaker 1: think that one of the one of the things that's
Speaker 1: kind of strange is that you can spend quite a
Speaker 1: lot of time just going about your business and not
Speaker 1: realizing how much you know, love and affection you have
Speaker 1: around you, and then you look back and you got
Speaker 1: I'd love to go back to that point. I'd love
Speaker 1: to go back to that point, you know when whenever
Speaker 1: and actually I'm I am in one of the rare
Speaker 1: moments in my life when as I said, it's not
Speaker 1: it's not everything's plain sailing. It isn't by any means,
Speaker 1: but just over the last year, it's been a bit
Speaker 1: of you know, it's been it's been a strange year.
Speaker 1: And one of the things that has been demonstrated to
Speaker 1: me is that the family, and I mean not just
Speaker 1: my my wife and my kids, but also my you know,
Speaker 1: my my family, extended family. I've just all been really
Speaker 1: really lovely, solid, decent people. And you know that thing
Speaker 1: about you only really know people when the you know,
Speaker 1: when the ship hits the fan. I've just had very
Speaker 1: good reason recently to discover that I really like how,
Speaker 1: you know, what, what what a great you know, what
Speaker 1: a great family I've got around me. So I'd be
Speaker 1: very happy to come back to this because not only
Speaker 1: but it's not just because they've been great now and
Speaker 1: they haven't been It's because I'm noticing it now in
Speaker 1: a way that I probably haven't done before. Kermaid, You're
Speaker 1: going to make me cry like Mark Kermaid's watching any film.
Speaker 1: That's really I mean, that's the best dance of every
Speaker 1: for that, I think that's Beau. I'm really I'm really
Speaker 1: glad that you are in the present appreciating the present.
Speaker 1: That is unusual, isn't it. Yeah. And it's also the
Speaker 1: thing that's the hardest to do, isn't it. You live
Speaker 1: in the moment. Yeah, try, you know, just just have
Speaker 1: a go really really hard. Here is embidist here there.
Speaker 1: I think I asked you this last time, but it's
Speaker 1: still has done. It is me. There are films that
Speaker 1: you watch again. Sometimes you'll you'll talk about a family
Speaker 1: go I went to see it again, and often that
Speaker 1: film was three and a half hours in, and I think,
Speaker 1: but there's a kind of well, if I'm writing a
Speaker 1: lead review for The Observer, okay, I would like to
Speaker 1: have seen it twice now. Obviously sometimes I can't, but
Speaker 1: if I can, I will. And the reason is that
Speaker 1: if you're going to write something, it feels kind of
Speaker 1: you'll you'll understand it. It It feels like journal of record
Speaker 1: when you write things that when you say things, they're
Speaker 1: in the ether and they're like until somebody transcribes them
Speaker 1: and then you go, excuse me, I didn't mean that.
Speaker 1: But when you write things, it's kind of and particularly
Speaker 1: with the observer, because it's the observer, it sort of
Speaker 1: feels journal of recording. And so I do like to
Speaker 1: watch something twice to just to check and to and
Speaker 1: because often the first pass is to do with, you know,
Speaker 1: getting the feel of the film, and then the second
Speaker 1: pass is to do with understanding it. Yeah, and then
Speaker 1: quite often if you've watched the film twice and got
Speaker 1: a lot out of it, it's quite easy to step
Speaker 1: back into it, you know, it just is. And also
Speaker 1: the films that I love, you know, like the Richard
Speaker 1: Gear Breathless and Duel in the Blue Cat and all
Speaker 1: those stuff that I've talked about elsewhere, they're just they're
Speaker 1: comfort blankets for me, and I love them and they
Speaker 1: never let me down. And I so there's always time
Speaker 1: to do it, even when there's no time to do
Speaker 1: anything at all, there is always time to just revisit.
Speaker 1: And of course the great thing is you know, you
Speaker 1: can dip in and out. Yeah, I was late doing something.
Speaker 1: I just I was staying just I was. I was
Speaker 1: in a glamorous travelodge the last two nights, and I
Speaker 1: was up late finishing work and I had to be
Speaker 1: up early in the morning to do the thing. And
Speaker 1: I did made the mistake of turning the television on
Speaker 1: and they were showing the Poseidon Adventure. I just watch.
Speaker 1: I'll just watched five minutes, you know. The next thing,
Speaker 1: you know, an hour's gone. Anyway, Well you have come
Speaker 1: back to now, well done, they're living. I wanted to
Speaker 1: talk to you about films and whatnot, mostly films the
Speaker 1: first thing that they would like to know. And they
Speaker 1: have missed here and there the very excited that you
Speaker 1: come back. I mean, imagine if this was what happened
Speaker 1: with Jesus, he pops back and everyone or anyone I
Speaker 1: was going is what was the last film you saw? Anyway?
Speaker 1: What was the last film you saw? The last film
Speaker 1: I saw would have been whatever I saw screened on Tuesdays.
Speaker 1: Oh so it must have been The Quiet Girl, the
Speaker 1: Irish movie, which is wonderful. I loved it. I absolutely
Speaker 1: loved it. You know it was like a kind of
Speaker 1: little oasis of joy in the middle of a slightly
Speaker 1: strange week. And I knew my colleague Wendy Eyed, had said, look,
Speaker 1: it's very good and you know you'll like it, because
Speaker 1: you know, as I like selling CMR and that sort
Speaker 1: of thing. But I just I went. It was a
Speaker 1: screening at the screening was at the Cursin Soho, but
Speaker 1: it was down you know, it was down in the in.
Speaker 1: I think it was a screen three wherever it was.
Speaker 1: And it was really odd because it was only about
Speaker 1: five people there because I imagine that other people had
Speaker 1: seen it already. And then in the middle of it,
Speaker 1: somebody came in I think must have just come in
Speaker 1: off the street and came in setting well about and
Speaker 1: very very loudly fell asleep and snored. But I don't
Speaker 1: think they didn't come in to watch the film. They
Speaker 1: just come in to get to get warm or something.
Speaker 1: And it's an indication of how good the film was
Speaker 1: that it bothered me not one jot that somebody was
Speaker 1: getting a nice warm kip while we were getting on
Speaker 1: with watching the film, because usually I'd be sufferable work
Speaker 1: we're making noise. But you know, no I thought it
Speaker 1: was love you have you seen it? No? I literally
Speaker 1: just read about it today and it's the first I've
Speaker 1: heard of it. But so good, so lovely, right, It's
Speaker 1: it's touching and heartfelt and understated, and it's it's fantastic
Speaker 1: central performance by this this young actor I've seen him before,
Speaker 1: which is great, and it's really well directed, and it's
Speaker 1: just you know, you just go, yes, that's it, Make
Speaker 1: make that, make that film. That's a that's a good.
Speaker 1: And I came out of it feeling really like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, if I have one of those a year,
Speaker 1: I'll be good. You know, it's really nice. Yeah, No,
Speaker 1: I thought it was great. Oh and then I definitely
Speaker 1: see that. Mark MD, who do you think should play
Speaker 1: you in the film of your life? Well? You know
Speaker 1: the answer this, right, I do know this answer, and
Speaker 1: your Answood daysondiais yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's a it's
Speaker 1: a it's a it's a it's a fantasy thing for
Speaker 1: me because you know, I know I've talked about this
Speaker 1: at great length, but I'll never tire of it. When
Speaker 1: I was at school with Jason, Jason was the person
Speaker 1: who I wanted to be and I, you know, I
Speaker 1: was a teenager and I had I think basically I
Speaker 1: had a teenage crush on him in that way that
Speaker 1: you can become completely infatuated with somebody, doesn't matter your
Speaker 1: gender or your you know, sexual orientations, nothing to do
Speaker 1: with that. You can you can basically fall in love
Speaker 1: with somebody because you just they impressed you so much.
Speaker 1: And of course it's funny because Jason now says, your look,
Speaker 1: your version of me is completely wrong. Like you thought
Speaker 1: I was cool and aloof but I wasn't any of
Speaker 1: those things. Actually I was an outsider. I'd come down
Speaker 1: from Liverpool. I didn't know anybody. Jason talks about changing
Speaker 1: his accent so he fitted in in North London. And
Speaker 1: of course he's you know, he's a chameleon when it
Speaker 1: comes to accents. But because we're sort of with the
Speaker 1: same age and yet he looks half my age, I
Speaker 1: said to him the other day, I said, Jason, can
Speaker 1: I ask you a question? Because I'm completely you know,
Speaker 1: I'm complete, completely nick Lie. As you can see from this,
Speaker 1: I said, Jason, do you die your hair? He said,
Speaker 1: of course not. They die it for me. You know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'd love to be played by Jason. It will never happen. Though. Well,
Speaker 1: here's the thing. He could play you, sure, and he'd
Speaker 1: do a very good joys a very good actor. But
Speaker 1: you've proved that you're very good at playing a setup.
Speaker 1: So I think it might have to me you I'll
Speaker 1: do I'll do it myself. Yeah, yeah, Jason could probably
Speaker 1: do you. Actually, I'm just thinking that, you know, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean this is funny because on this I'm looking
Speaker 1: at you on this camera, you've got this very kind
Speaker 1: of action man look about you that you've getten the
Speaker 1: in the in the black and white. You know, action
Speaker 1: man with the same length beard and hair. You know,
Speaker 1: the with the eagle eyes and the grippy hands that
Speaker 1: you're using now to use your coffee cup and the
Speaker 1: gripping hands. But you know he, Jason could play anyone,
Speaker 1: to be honest, Jason can play anyone. What is the
Speaker 1: most romantic film you've ever seen? And is it near that? Well,
Speaker 1: you know, in a way, you've kind of you've you've
Speaker 1: committed the Simon Mayo sin of asking a question to
Speaker 1: which the answer is yes. I mean, I mean the
Speaker 1: thing is, you know, in absolute terms, I love Splash.
Speaker 1: You know, I've gone on about Splash a lot. I
Speaker 1: absolutely love Splash because it's just you know, I loved
Speaker 1: it before Quentin Tarantino loved it all right, you know
Speaker 1: everyone loves Splash. Yeah. Well, I went to see Splash
Speaker 1: at the Wllington City City when I was in Manchester,
Speaker 1: and I went to see it, like, you know, two
Speaker 1: or three times in the same week. And it's just
Speaker 1: with the mermaid comedy. What what? What is? What's the thing?
Speaker 1: But I love Tom Hanks in that film. It's just
Speaker 1: so he was so great. And then of course I
Speaker 1: then saw I think they re released Bachelor Party and
Speaker 1: it was terrible, except for the bit when he does
Speaker 1: the thing with all the burners are currently occupied, which
Speaker 1: was funny, and then it's lovely that now, all these
Speaker 1: years later, Tom Hanks has turned into the person that
Speaker 1: Simon and I regularly cited the best interview in the
Speaker 1: world because he does that thing about he makes you
Speaker 1: think that for the time that you're in the room
Speaker 1: with him, you are the only person that's in the
Speaker 1: room with him, but near dark will always have the
Speaker 1: upper hand. Because it was that. Even though it was
Speaker 1: the first film that Linda and I saw together, I
Speaker 1: thought it was a date she says it wasn't. But
Speaker 1: you know, it's you can't ever unhinge the thing that
Speaker 1: you that, you know, the time that you saw something
Speaker 1: in I mean, like, I remember, the best breakup movie
Speaker 1: I ever saw was Hell Racer to see Hell Raiser,
Speaker 1: which I'd already seen, but I went to see Hell
Speaker 1: Razor at the end of a sticky relationship. And I
Speaker 1: just remember going to taking myself to the Sulfur Keys
Speaker 1: to see Hell Razor and it was just like laden
Speaker 1: stuff and pins in the heads and you know, and
Speaker 1: all that stuff, and it was just like, yeah, that's
Speaker 1: the money, that's what we want. Good. Yeah, I'm so
Speaker 1: over it. But yeah, no, Near Dart will always be.
Speaker 1: It will always be the thing for me because because we,
Speaker 1: you know, we saw it together. And I remember and
Speaker 1: I remember thinking, God, I actually thinks I'm really cool.
Speaker 1: I brought her to this grungy vampire movie. You know,
Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't take a Star is Born or
Speaker 1: or you know or something like that. I took it.
Speaker 1: I took her to see a film because I kind
Speaker 1: of because I respect her, you know, and I'm sure
Speaker 1: you know what she turned to that when she was
Speaker 1: actually thinking as this is an interesting film. Who's he? Oh? Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's right. Yeah, I really love that. This one is
Speaker 1: a real interesting question for you, particularly given what we've said.
Speaker 1: What is the best film you've ever seen that you
Speaker 1: never want to see again? Oh? Wow? Well, I mean
Speaker 1: there are things like there are endless documentaries about animal cruelty,
Speaker 1: which I think are brilliant, but I wouldn't want to
Speaker 1: see them again because because because they just you know,
Speaker 1: you know, I just find it heartbreaking because I'm a
Speaker 1: bleeding heart liberal. I know loads of people who whose
Speaker 1: lives were changed by seeing Cowspiracy, for example, but you
Speaker 1: wouldn't want to see it again. Yeah. I think the
Speaker 1: Act of Killing is an absolutely existential soul shaking experience,
Speaker 1: and I cannot imagine having an evening free and thinking,
Speaker 1: you know, I'll do that. But I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: I did watch Act of Killing twice because I watched
Speaker 1: it once and then I had to review it for
Speaker 1: The Observer and I had to review I wanted to
Speaker 1: review it for the Observer, and so I went back
Speaker 1: and watched it again and I just found it utterly
Speaker 1: soul shaking, I mean genuinely soul shaking. But I wouldn't
Speaker 1: want to watch it again. I don't need to him.
Speaker 1: It's pretty much burned into my brain. Come and see.
Speaker 1: As another example, isn't it the clean off? You know,
Speaker 1: it's all right? Yeah, you know once it's kind of
Speaker 1: it's kind of fun. The thing I would cite is
Speaker 1: there's a film called Martyrs, which is a horror movie.
Speaker 1: And I've said this before. It's the closest I've ever
Speaker 1: come to walking out of a film without walking out
Speaker 1: of the film, And by the time I got to
Speaker 1: the end, I was really glad I hadn't walked out,
Speaker 1: but I never wanted to see it again. And I
Speaker 1: always cite it as a kind of interesting case of
Speaker 1: it got so close to having gone too far for me,
Speaker 1: and then and then it didn't. And I'm glad I
Speaker 1: saw it through the closure. But I've only seen it once,
Speaker 1: and I wouldn't go back and watch it again. Are
Speaker 1: you able to articulate the difference? I sometimes wonder if
Speaker 1: it's intent, But I've heard you talk about it, and
Speaker 1: I think I feel similarly but less than you, as
Speaker 1: in you like goring and nice stuff happening. And then
Speaker 1: occasionally I hear you talk about a film and you'll
Speaker 1: be like that is a horrible It was like and
Speaker 1: it's another horror and its blood and guts and it,
Speaker 1: but you sort of find it disgusting and an apparent
Speaker 1: And can you articulate if there is a common theme
Speaker 1: of why that it's the difference between one that you
Speaker 1: really enjoy and one that you're like, this is yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I'll have a go. Yeah. I had a
Speaker 1: kind of a rule for a while, this thing about
Speaker 1: you know that in my experience, certainly when I had started,
Speaker 1: when I started out working in film criticism, I was
Speaker 1: a horror fan first and foremost. So when I first
Speaker 1: started trying to get interviews and that kind of thing
Speaker 1: that it was, it just turned out that the people
Speaker 1: I went to were horror filmmakers. Yeah. I went to
Speaker 1: Los Angeles in the late nineteen eighties because I've been
Speaker 1: working a little bit for Time Out and New Musical
Speaker 1: Express freelancing, but it was just writing film reviews and
Speaker 1: I needed bigger things. I needed features. So I went
Speaker 1: to stay with my friend Tim polecat In he lived
Speaker 1: off of Hollywood, and I thought while I was there,
Speaker 1: I'll get some interviews, and I sent out a bunch
Speaker 1: of facts. As it would have been then people saying, look,
Speaker 1: I'm a freelancer from the UK, I write for these publications.
Speaker 1: I can't guarantee that the thing will end up in
Speaker 1: any of these publications. Would you give me half an
Speaker 1: hour of your time? The three people who gave me
Speaker 1: an hour of their time was Wes Craven, who made
Speaker 1: Last House and the Left, arguably one of the most
Speaker 1: terrifyingly unpleasant films ever made. Sam Ramy, who made The
Speaker 1: Evil Dead, which was on the you know the Video
Speaker 1: Nasties sort of hit list and was described one of
Speaker 1: the BBFC examiners said that after watching it they felt
Speaker 1: that they'd been physically assaulted. And Linda Blair, the star
Speaker 1: of The Exorcist, which is the movie that sent people
Speaker 1: running out of theaters and into churches. They were all lovely.
Speaker 1: They were really really lovely, thoughtful, nice, funny, sweet. You
Speaker 1: would have trusted them with your life. And then later on,
Speaker 1: you know, Guna Hansen who played leather Face in Texas
Speaker 1: Chainsaw Maska, lovely blow just big, big bear of a guy,
Speaker 1: you know who would you know they kind of personally,
Speaker 1: would you know, give you lift you up over a
Speaker 1: wall if you needed, you know, that kind of thing.
Speaker 1: And then simultaneously I interviewed some other people who were,
Speaker 1: you know, the head of some big corporations who make
Speaker 1: some big family entertainment, and they were absolute assholes, Like
Speaker 1: really really, I did an on stage with one who
Speaker 1: just will remain nameless, but somebody who was pretty high
Speaker 1: up in a studio which had made, you know, some
Speaker 1: of the most salable kids entertainment in the world. And
Speaker 1: I thought he was a contemptible oath and just sneery,
Speaker 1: just like had no appeared to have no love of
Speaker 1: movies in him, did not appear to did not appear
Speaker 1: to love movies at all. And so the thing with
Speaker 1: Gore cinema is I like movies that that provoke a reaction,
Speaker 1: that provoke a response, and that works for me. I
Speaker 1: like horror movies because they take me out of them.
Speaker 1: You know, they in the moment, you know you're alive
Speaker 1: at the moment. But I think that there's a thing
Speaker 1: about that movies have an attitude that can be adventurous
Speaker 1: or scary, but it can also have an attitude which
Speaker 1: can be mean spirited. And I remember talking to Nigel
Speaker 1: Floyd once about Peter Jackson's work. I like very much.
Speaker 1: But he made this film Meet the Feebles, and I
Speaker 1: thought that Meet the Feebles was a really mean spirited
Speaker 1: film and it was interesting to discover that. Of course,
Speaker 1: it was borne out of a great conflict that he
Speaker 1: had been trying to get another project off the ground
Speaker 1: and had been frustrated and ended up doing Meet the Feebles.
Speaker 1: And you can feel, yeah, the anger in that film,
Speaker 1: which is very weird for Peter Jackson because he's not
Speaker 1: an angry filmmaker, but that film feels you know, you
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. It means it's it's there's
Speaker 1: something about that film. I know exactly what you mean.
Speaker 1: It's really horrible. It's really it's really it's really just nasty.
Speaker 1: It's made with love, is it? That's that's and there
Speaker 1: we go and there that's hitting the nail on the head.
Speaker 1: And if you compare that to say, yeah it is
Speaker 1: and you know the George Romero Night They're Living Dead
Speaker 1: and Dawn of the Dead, Day of the Dead movies,
Speaker 1: those are made with with with absolutely love. And then
Speaker 1: our Gento I think would be the same thing. You know, Argento,
Speaker 1: if you talk about you know, his move from Jello
Speaker 1: into horror and Suspiria front of us, all those things.
Speaker 1: These are films that are made with by somebody who
Speaker 1: your way of making the film. You can feel it,
Speaker 1: you can feel it. And that's why partly I think
Speaker 1: why Darry used to get so offended about his movies
Speaker 1: being cut because he loved them. He loved the films,
Speaker 1: and then he couldn't understand why somebody said, well, I
Speaker 1: loved it, but I got to cut this bit off it.
Speaker 1: You know. David Kronenberg once said that having your having
Speaker 1: your film cut was like sending a child to school
Speaker 1: and it being sent with a sent back with one
Speaker 1: of its fingers cut off because they said, yeah, it
Speaker 1: wasn't it was fine, but we didn't like that yet.
Speaker 1: So anyway, there you go. It's a very Cronenberg image.
Speaker 1: But so yeah, I think it's it is the film
Speaker 1: made with a sense of celebration and love and you know,
Speaker 1: you know, or adventurous and he's perfectly possible to make
Speaker 1: a nihilistic film, but without it being mean spirited. I
Speaker 1: think mean spirited, you know, is the thing that I
Speaker 1: don't like. That's it. You've got it. I sound so sanctimonious. No, no,
Speaker 1: I completely agree. I do think it's It is as
Speaker 1: silly as it may sound, it is if you make
Speaker 1: anything with love, you can take The Exocist is made
Speaker 1: with love. It's fucking amazing. You can feel there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I get why you love The Exorcist. And then yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't have to name all the films not maybe
Speaker 1: we love that you can't feel it, you could sell.
Speaker 1: What is the best action film you've ever seen? Well?
Speaker 1: I love Point Break? I mean I just love Point Break.
Speaker 1: I mean I know, I know it's a kind of
Speaker 1: it's you know, it's immediately you are in hot fuzz territory.
Speaker 1: But you know you've seen Bad Boys too, You've seen
Speaker 1: point On which one you want to watch first? Have
Speaker 1: you ever shot a gun in the year? We're going? Ah?
Speaker 1: But the point is Point Break is one of those
Speaker 1: movies like die Hard, that you go into it your
Speaker 1: expectation is never going is not what the film is. Okay, So,
Speaker 1: I mean I knew that I liked Bigelow, but Point
Speaker 1: Break was like, wow, you know, this is a surfing
Speaker 1: movie and Keano Reeves apparently just jumped out of a
Speaker 1: plane without a parachute, and the you know the chase sequence,
Speaker 1: you know when they're doing the thing, and then you
Speaker 1: see how they did it at the camera with the
Speaker 1: thing and the hoop on the end of a following
Speaker 1: that film barrels at such a pace. It's absolutely breathtaking.
Speaker 1: And I also remember seeing die Hard for the first
Speaker 1: time because people have said to me die Hard is
Speaker 1: really good. And I wasn't a Bruce Willis fan. I
Speaker 1: didn't know Moonlighting from a Hole in the Ground, and
Speaker 1: you know, i'd heard that it was, you know, cowboys
Speaker 1: and Indians in the Towering Inferno. And then you go,
Speaker 1: it's so good. It's so good. It's so good. And um,
Speaker 1: I mean obviously it's you know, it's got great script
Speaker 1: and great performances and Rickman is wonderful. But just as
Speaker 1: an action movie, there is a piece of action cinema.
Speaker 1: It's great. But I think Point Break has got the
Speaker 1: edge because Point Break is a film which you know,
Speaker 1: it's land, sea and sky. It's like how many terrains
Speaker 1: can you run? And it's like all of the yeah
Speaker 1: it is. It's the surf and turf with you know,
Speaker 1: with with a bird, you know, with a surf, turf
Speaker 1: and a buff. Anyway, yeah, good, you can have it
Speaker 1: of all the films that exist, if you had to,
Speaker 1: which film do you think you could have made? And way? Well,
Speaker 1: you know to start with the provider. Yet, as I've
Speaker 1: said to you before, Brett, I couldn't make a film
Speaker 1: that you couldn't make a film. You have it that
Speaker 1: I couldn't make a film because I couldn't make a film.
Speaker 1: So in a way, it's an impossible question to answer,
Speaker 1: because all the films that I love I couldn't have made,
Speaker 1: and all the films I don't like I couldn't have
Speaker 1: made either, not because I would have done them better,
Speaker 1: because I would have done them worse. I have always
Speaker 1: said to people, Look, if I criticize your film, please
Speaker 1: understand that it's coming from somebody who couldn't have made
Speaker 1: the film. You know, I couldn't have made over sex
Speaker 1: Rugsuckers from Mars. I mean, I really couldn't have made
Speaker 1: even that low level. But of all the films, do
Speaker 1: you mean, which one would I like to have made?
Speaker 1: I guess what the question is and is what's the
Speaker 1: sort of film that you think represents? Maybe it's another
Speaker 1: way of saying, like, what film do you relate to? Like?
Speaker 1: Have you I've seen a film accasing whether that a
Speaker 1: funk I could have written that, as in I couldn't
Speaker 1: have written away sensibility. Why they're like, that's well, I think,
Speaker 1: you know, I think that, Yeah, okay, I think in
Speaker 1: that case the answer again, I'm sorry to do the
Speaker 1: old hits, but I'm an old man and I'm not
Speaker 1: changing my mind about much anymore. I think Jeremy is
Speaker 1: the film that felt like, you know, because bear in mind,
Speaker 1: when I saw Jeremy, I was I was twelve. I
Speaker 1: think you know. I saw it on a double bill
Speaker 1: would Breakout Past, and it was a supporting film, and
Speaker 1: I didn't know it ending about it, and then it
Speaker 1: broke my heart in a thousand pieces. And then I
Speaker 1: never saw it again for thirty years, but I remembered
Speaker 1: every single thing about it. And I think that the
Speaker 1: reason is it's that have you ever seen that film
Speaker 1: Velvet gold Mine Todd Haynes, Yeah, Todd Haynes film. And
Speaker 1: there's a bit in it when I think it's Christian Bale,
Speaker 1: I mean Christian Bale and I batman Christian Bale. Yes,
Speaker 1: he's watching the television and he sees in the in
Speaker 1: the conceit of the film, he basically sees Bowie or
Speaker 1: something like Bowie on the telly and he jumps up
Speaker 1: and he goes, that's me, that's me. And he's some
Speaker 1: you know, he's like a kid in flat but he
Speaker 1: looks at it, he goes, that's me. And although it
Speaker 1: clearly isn't him, it's you know, because he's in a
Speaker 1: front room watching it tellly and this is some glam
Speaker 1: rocker on on on the talent. But when I saw Jeremy,
Speaker 1: it was like somebody had you know, that's me. And
Speaker 1: because it isn't me. But I don't live in New York.
Speaker 1: I don't go to Juilliard. You know, I was never
Speaker 1: in that I was too you know, I was young.
Speaker 1: I was never in that position. I'd never been in
Speaker 1: love and had my heartbroken, although I did feel like
Speaker 1: I was in love and had my heartbroken by the film.
Speaker 1: And then years later, year decades later, when I became
Speaker 1: friends with Alan Jones, it turned out that Alan, I love.
Speaker 1: Alan's great and it turned out that he absolutely loved
Speaker 1: Jeremy in the same way. Now, Alan and I are
Speaker 1: very different people. Our lives are very different, our histories
Speaker 1: are very different, our ages are very different. You know,
Speaker 1: I mean Alan was, you know, he was. Alan's always
Speaker 1: been this kind of a joke about Alan is. You know,
Speaker 1: if in any sort of thing, like any film you
Speaker 1: ever see about punk rock, Okay, if you moved the
Speaker 1: camera slightly to the left, there's Alan. And in this
Speaker 1: new film Wake Up Punk, he's actually in it. And
Speaker 1: of course he's in Great Rock and Roll Swindle. And
Speaker 1: he was working at Sex with um you know, Westwood
Speaker 1: and Claren and he was friends with all that stuff.
Speaker 1: And then he was he's the star of the Tensee C.
Speaker 1: He's the roller skating star of the Tensee C music
Speaker 1: video whatever it meant many beats per minute, it is.
Speaker 1: And he was to you know, so we've had very
Speaker 1: different lives, but we both saw Jeremy and when that's
Speaker 1: me and and it demolts Rest. And then years later
Speaker 1: I interviewed Robbie Benson about it. Robbie Benson went on
Speaker 1: to be a famous performer, and he was, he's the
Speaker 1: voice of Beast in Beauty and the Beast. Yes, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: And I said, the thing about the film is that,
Speaker 1: you know, it's like it's like falling in love. It's
Speaker 1: exactly like falling in love. And he said, well, of course,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, and who was the co star?
Speaker 1: We were falling in love. Actually in that film, what
Speaker 1: you see is, you know, he's realized that you just
Speaker 1: you must have such such warm memories of it. He said, no,
Speaker 1: it was quite horrible to make, really, And then he
Speaker 1: told me that it was these stories about just what
Speaker 1: a really really difficult, like really properly unpleasant experience it
Speaker 1: was to make a film which is full of innocence
Speaker 1: and joy and and and I kept I kept thinking,
Speaker 1: please stop, I don't want to know. It was, you know,
Speaker 1: fallings out with the directors in the cinema to anyway,
Speaker 1: you know, but it goes to show, you know. I
Speaker 1: remember talking to Terry Gilliam once about Baron Munchhaus, and
Speaker 1: of course famously Baron Munchaus had this incredibly painful birth.
Speaker 1: But when you look at the film, it's light and delicate, funny,
Speaker 1: you know. So yeah, so yeah, but Jeremy, I think
Speaker 1: would be the film even though I never had any
Speaker 1: of those experiences. I'm not that boy, you know, I didn't.
Speaker 1: I don't live that life and never did. But like
Speaker 1: Jeremy speaks to me on a on a profound level
Speaker 1: I felt. I felt the same way when I saw
Speaker 1: a ladybirds like, I'm Ceranian and obviously there we go.
Speaker 1: I met Searcheronian for the first time on Monday. She
Speaker 1: was in the beer Fi. I'd done a show and
Speaker 1: she was in the beer Fi and she was sitting
Speaker 1: there and and somebody said she was talking to somebody
Speaker 1: I know, And I did the think that I kind
Speaker 1: of went over and I and I sat down. I
Speaker 1: you know, I studiously didn't, you know, And I just says, Hi, Searcha.
Speaker 1: I'm like, she's, oh, hi, Hi, nice to meet me.
Speaker 1: And I said, oh, you know, you know Brendan Gardner,
Speaker 1: the you know, the dialect coach. But oh yeah, I
Speaker 1: love Brendan. I said, oh, he's a good friend of mine.
Speaker 1: You know, what are you doing? I was literally just
Speaker 1: trying to get look, I'm you know, we know similar people.
Speaker 1: She's so she's so great in everything. She really is.
Speaker 1: She's fantastic. This is an interesting one. And I don't
Speaker 1: know if you have an answered. What is the film
Speaker 1: you have pretended to like to impress people? Wow? What
Speaker 1: is the film I've pretended to like? Well, I will
Speaker 1: confess that I pretended to like Citizen came before I
Speaker 1: saw it, so it was a huge it was a
Speaker 1: huge relief when I actually did see it and I
Speaker 1: thought it was good. It's quite good. Yeah, yeah, you're say, yeah, nobody,
Speaker 1: of course. And the great joy of it is is
Speaker 1: that it's funnier than than you expect. And so you know,
Speaker 1: you go in thinking, here we go, a great movie
Speaker 1: you ever made? Oh god, and then of course it's
Speaker 1: it's funny and it's satirical and news on the up
Speaker 1: and all that stuff, which I which I really loved.
Speaker 1: I remember I reviewed a film once. The title of
Speaker 1: it may come back to me years later. I think
Speaker 1: it was called Last Images of the Shipwreck. I think
Speaker 1: that's what it was called. And I reviewed it for
Speaker 1: Time Out. And sometime later Alan Frank, who was a
Speaker 1: fellow film critic, he was doing something, he was doing
Speaker 1: some cataloging. He said, he said, I read your review
Speaker 1: of the Last Images of the Last Images of the Shipwreck,
Speaker 1: and I went, oh, wow, yeah, it's like twenty years ago.
Speaker 1: I mean, he said, yeah. He said, that was the
Speaker 1: best example of somebody pretending to like a film that
Speaker 1: I've ever read. So evidently, according to you know, to
Speaker 1: an ounce a third party, and I'm more inclined to
Speaker 1: believe it. Evidently I was pretending to like that because
Speaker 1: it made me seem clever, but it literally said, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's the best example of somebody pretending to like a
Speaker 1: film I've ever read. Well, I think if I'd rather
Speaker 1: a critic pretended to like, say they think that exactly exactly. So,
Speaker 1: what is the film you've never seen that you think
Speaker 1: it's mad? You've never seen it? There's an academic game,
Speaker 1: you know, Linda, my wife is a professor of film,
Speaker 1: And there's an academic game which is a kind of
Speaker 1: game of a Dare game, which is the book that
Speaker 1: you should have read that you haven't read, that you've
Speaker 1: been teaching for twenty years, and it's kind of you know,
Speaker 1: it starts at something fairly obscure, and then each each
Speaker 1: person who admits has to has to crank it closer
Speaker 1: to the what you mean you've never read Janeair, You
Speaker 1: know what you mean, you've never read Emma. It's like
Speaker 1: that kind of level of thing. But the film I'm
Speaker 1: astonished that I haven't seen. I've never seen Wild Horse, Hank,
Speaker 1: that is mad? What's the film you know what that
Speaker 1: is no what is wild Horse Hank? Wild Horse Hank
Speaker 1: is a Linda Blair film and I've never seen it.
Speaker 1: And it's her favorite film that she made. Then, that
Speaker 1: is really And I love Linda Blair. I think she's
Speaker 1: she's great and I've never seen it. And the reason
Speaker 1: I've never seen it is because when I was in
Speaker 1: my Linda Blair completest period in which I'm trying to
Speaker 1: get everything she'd ever done, it, wild Horse Sank was
Speaker 1: just not available. But she said it's the one of
Speaker 1: all her films, it's the one she loves the most.
Speaker 1: And I interviewed her. I interviewed her, and I think
Speaker 1: I lied. I think I said, oh, yes, I love
Speaker 1: it too, because I wanted to impress her. What I mean,
Speaker 1: you've got to track that down there. What is the
Speaker 1: film that you love that you don't expect anyone else
Speaker 1: to like? Well, Jeremy is a very good example. I won't.
Speaker 1: I mean, in fact, like so much so that we
Speaker 1: have three copies of Jeremy in my house and none
Speaker 1: of my family have ever seen it. Really yeah, and
Speaker 1: they can't and they can't they won't. I won't allow
Speaker 1: them to see it because I couldn't deal with them
Speaker 1: not liking it, and they think it's a very good
Speaker 1: chance that they wouldn't like it, because I think there's
Speaker 1: loads of things that were probably deeply wrong with it,
Speaker 1: and so you know, I mean it's it's just I mean,
Speaker 1: Simon won't watch it, and that's the joke because he
Speaker 1: thinks the joke is funniest if he doesn't watch it.
Speaker 1: But it's also entirely possible that he would watch it
Speaker 1: and just think it's an absolute piece of trash. So
Speaker 1: I can completely understand, Like if somebody said to me,
Speaker 1: should I watch Jeremy two parts, One part of my
Speaker 1: brain would go, yes, it's a lot it's me, and
Speaker 1: then the other part of peopuld go no, I do
Speaker 1: really know, yeah, because if they like Jeremy, they don't
Speaker 1: like you. Oh yeah, And actually, but I think that's right.
Speaker 1: I think there's a part of me that couldn't take
Speaker 1: that level of judgment. You know, Yeah, it's too much. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know how you take with it anyone that
Speaker 1: doesn't like a film that I loves my heart, I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: well I always used to make that joke about if
Speaker 1: you don't like Mary Poppins, we won't be friends. And
Speaker 1: I don't mean it as a joke. I mean, if
Speaker 1: you know the person who I was talking about, the
Speaker 1: studio head of the people that make you know, family entertainment,
Speaker 1: but I thought was a man with a black hole
Speaker 1: where his soul ought to be. I told him that
Speaker 1: I cried. I told him that I cried every time
Speaker 1: I watched Mary Poppins. And he said, well, you've just
Speaker 1: made a fool of yourself. Ah, but I can't say.
Speaker 1: I can't tell you who it was. I can't tell
Speaker 1: you who it was. Okay, what's the film you would
Speaker 1: show a lover? That's right, a lover A lover's brett.
Speaker 1: Well to go back pre Linda, I really have lovers? Then, okay,
Speaker 1: what is the film you would show a partner as
Speaker 1: a test to see if you should be together? Mary Poppins. Great.
Speaker 1: I mean, you're tying yourself up and knots it because
Speaker 1: in a way, I'm kind of you know, it's like
Speaker 1: I'm boringly predictable with these answers for Mary Poppins. I
Speaker 1: do mean it. I genuinely mean it. It's like, if
Speaker 1: you don't get Mary Poppins, we aren't going to get
Speaker 1: on because so much of you know, so much of
Speaker 1: of what what I believe in. It's Mary Bobbins. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, Mary Bobbins is fucking amazing. It's just it's
Speaker 1: just a joy. It's it's it's about everything that's good
Speaker 1: in the world, and it's the best. It's the best
Speaker 1: explanation of the financial crash I've ever seen on film,
Speaker 1: and the songs are wonderful and it's just transcendent, and yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's you know, I'm sure we talked about it, right,
Speaker 1: but yeah, yeah, you said, mister Bates is the one
Speaker 1: that made me. It's lovely. It's lovely, which is why
Speaker 1: did you have to make him so horrible? Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: just great. What is the film that made you the
Speaker 1: most uncomfortable? Martyrs did make me uncomfortable. The Last House
Speaker 1: and the Left made me feel really really queasy, but
Speaker 1: partly because Last House and Left was kind of a
Speaker 1: test of that, how much do I actually believe in
Speaker 1: free speech? Because I was, you know, I was involved
Speaker 1: in defending it when we're trying to get it uncut
Speaker 1: through the BBFC. And it's the thing that I had
Speaker 1: always held was Last House and leftn't be released uncut
Speaker 1: because it isn't a salacious piece of nastiness. It should
Speaker 1: be released uncut because it's an important piece of salations nastiness.
Speaker 1: You know, there are some people who say, well, lost
Speaker 1: as to let this an exploitation movie is actually about
Speaker 1: the reality of Vince. No, it's not. It's an exploitation movie.
Speaker 1: It was originally called sex Crime of the Century. You know,
Speaker 1: it's it's an exploitation movie. If you think it isn't,
Speaker 1: you're kidding yourself. In the same way as if you
Speaker 1: think that people defend films often by disavowing what they are, okay,
Speaker 1: And the great example of me is Cruising, the William
Speaker 1: Freaking film. Cruising would say, well, you know that film
Speaker 1: is you know, it's got this really sort of salacious
Speaker 1: mix of sex and violence in it, to which the
Speaker 1: answer is yes, it has. And if you pretend that
Speaker 1: that's not part of its appeal, then you're just lying
Speaker 1: to yourself about the film. I mean, it might be
Speaker 1: a you know, an existential murder mystery and all those
Speaker 1: other things, but it's also got this incredibly tactile sleaziness
Speaker 1: to it that actually is very very cinematic, and I
Speaker 1: think it's an interesting film, but I partly think it's
Speaker 1: an interesting film because it's got you know, all this
Speaker 1: you know, it's stuff going on that's really kind of
Speaker 1: you know, it's a film that feels like it's enjoying itself. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, in the scenes in which it's apparently meant
Speaker 1: to be not enjoying itself, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: It's so I think it's it's a kind of very
Speaker 1: revealing movie like that. So, but the times that I've
Speaker 1: been I think in the case of The Last House,
Speaker 1: I felt uncomfortable because I was going into bat for
Speaker 1: it to make a case for it being released on cut,
Speaker 1: and so I did have to watch it quite a
Speaker 1: few times, and every time I watched it go, you know,
Speaker 1: this is this is really nasty. It's a really nasty
Speaker 1: from even where's Craven thought the same thing where he
Speaker 1: thought it was about something. He thought it was important,
Speaker 1: and I think it is important because in terms of
Speaker 1: the evolution of horror, it is about something. But it's
Speaker 1: also completely nasty. It's got these weird bits of slapstick
Speaker 1: comedy in it, which just completely I said to Craven ones,
Speaker 1: what's that about? It? Said, Well, I felt the audience
Speaker 1: needed a break, really, you know so, so I think
Speaker 1: that made me feel very, very uncomfortable. The things that
Speaker 1: I usually feel most uncomfortable in though, films that try
Speaker 1: to co opt me into into something that I don't
Speaker 1: believe in, and I it most regularly happens in kind
Speaker 1: of bro humor, which I don't find funny. I just
Speaker 1: don't find it funny. And I hate the idea, you know,
Speaker 1: with the Entourage thing was you know that they said, well,
Speaker 1: it's every remember the thing is, it's every man's dream.
Speaker 1: It's every boy's dream to everything it isn't It wasn't mine,
Speaker 1: and I'm not alone. I know loads and loads of
Speaker 1: men who don't have that dream. Not only do I
Speaker 1: not have that dream, I would literally want to floss
Speaker 1: my head if I if that dream ever got into mine.
Speaker 1: And I hate the fact that the film is going
Speaker 1: all right, ay, you know, we do really don't we?
Speaker 1: And that makes me feel uncomfortable because I feel like
Speaker 1: just sitting here watching this quietly rather than standing up
Speaker 1: and being outrage. I once saw a play. It was
Speaker 1: when I was at Managest University. It was some kind
Speaker 1: of bit of agit prop and I think it was
Speaker 1: maybe it was a break piece. I can't remember, but
Speaker 1: there were these Regularly the actors would stand at the
Speaker 1: front of the stage and say will you intervene? Will
Speaker 1: you intervene? And that second time they did it, somebody
Speaker 1: stood up and said yep, and they went and it
Speaker 1: was like what the fuck? And it was just like, yeah,
Speaker 1: they're good for you, good for you. Can we go
Speaker 1: home now? Exactly what? Well, it's pretty Mary Poppins. What
Speaker 1: is if you could show a child one film, what
Speaker 1: would he Well? Poppins obviously, and I mean it's not
Speaker 1: an if I did you know, I mean my my
Speaker 1: daughter and I must have watched Mary Poppins one hundred
Speaker 1: times in a Year's the age you started her child
Speaker 1: and Mary Poppins's I think Georgia first saw it when
Speaker 1: she was about three, Okay, I think that's about right.
Speaker 1: Because it's got songs and an animation, you know, so
Speaker 1: it's a it's a kind of it's a gateway drug.
Speaker 1: And we had it on a on a DVD, but
Speaker 1: it was a flipper. You had to get up and
Speaker 1: turn the thing over. So it's exactly the moment when
Speaker 1: she says, Michael stopped stravging, you know, because he's got
Speaker 1: one foot in the gutter and one foot on the thing,
Speaker 1: and then it would stop, and then you'd have to
Speaker 1: get up and turn it over, and then there was
Speaker 1: the tea party on the ceiling. But I told her
Speaker 1: that was kind of like the intermission, so you couldn't
Speaker 1: fall asleep, you know, you had to be awake to
Speaker 1: turn the thing over. So we just watched it over
Speaker 1: and over again. But it's it's it's so great because
Speaker 1: she would see it as as a child and I
Speaker 1: would see it as an adult, and we'd both be
Speaker 1: enjoying it for completely different reasons. I think the Ghibli
Speaker 1: films are similar. I think that you know, you can
Speaker 1: watch things like Spirited Away. I mean, in fact I
Speaker 1: did when my daughter was still quite young. I was
Speaker 1: given a videotape of Spirited Away because they wanted to
Speaker 1: do a piece about it on Radio four, and they'd
Speaker 1: ask me what I thought about it. It's just before
Speaker 1: the kind of you know, Ghibli became everything to everyone, yea.
Speaker 1: And I sat and watched it with my daughter and
Speaker 1: she loved it, and I was completely baffled by it.
Speaker 1: I mean, the narrative which the bathhouses and the what
Speaker 1: and the thing and the pardon you know. But she
Speaker 1: just loved it, and I was, you know, and that
Speaker 1: that gave me a way of going, well, it makes
Speaker 1: sense on some fundamental level that's beyond narrative, you know.
Speaker 1: I like that Ponyo Ponyo is the other great example
Speaker 1: of that. Somebody, somebody catches a fish that just turns
Speaker 1: into a person, but it doesn't really, it's sort of
Speaker 1: still a fish. What's the film? I forgot what it's cool,
Speaker 1: but I really really loved it, and you loved it too.
Speaker 1: It's quite recent. What's it called Where the turtle is?
Speaker 1: There's no red turtle? The turtle? And I really loved
Speaker 1: that film and it's really beautiful and I don't get
Speaker 1: any dat all. No, it's it's funnily enough. The bloke goes, hey, hey, yeah,
Speaker 1: just arrives on the island and that's it. And I
Speaker 1: was wondering, I have no experience of children seeing it.
Speaker 1: Did you see that with your children? I wonder how
Speaker 1: it plays. I have seen it with my children, because
Speaker 1: I saw it. I loved it. I interviewed um, who's
Speaker 1: the director. He gave me one of the original drawings
Speaker 1: of the Turtle, which I have signed on my wall,
Speaker 1: and then you know, and then I just showed it
Speaker 1: to my family, my family, but they were older kids
Speaker 1: at that point, but you know, but yeah, it's just
Speaker 1: like you have to watch. This is the best thing ever. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's really, it's really something. Mark per Moode, you have
Speaker 1: been wonderful, so wonderful. I've decided I'm gonna let you live,
Speaker 1: but thank you. I might kill you again one day
Speaker 1: in the future, so just before I do, there's a
Speaker 1: will here, and you need to leave one DVD for
Speaker 1: the people behind in case you happen to die again.
Speaker 1: Just one DVD for any for anybody. Yeah, I feel
Speaker 1: loved ones. Well, okay, I would leave Petite Mammal because
Speaker 1: because it has out, it has I think one of
Speaker 1: the most brilliant depictions of childhood and adulthood and the
Speaker 1: bit when the mum says, you know, you're not responsible
Speaker 1: for my sorrow. M It's just I mean, I just
Speaker 1: think that filmed. It's just it's amazing, eighty two minutes
Speaker 1: long and every piece of human life is in there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, so i'd say that, say that wonderful, that's wonderful.
Speaker 1: I also think it's nice you've left for the future
Speaker 1: where people will have no attention spans. You've left a
Speaker 1: short film that was very thought mark. I really really
Speaker 1: appreciate your time. I've loved doing this again. Thank you,
Speaker 1: it's fun. Thank you for having me back. Bro. I
Speaker 1: really appreciate I appreciate you. If there's anything you want
Speaker 1: to table to listen, look out for a read, or anything,
Speaker 1: please say yeah. Well, you know, I hope that people
Speaker 1: will will listen to the podcast. I hope that they'll
Speaker 1: they'll find us, you know, on the new podcast, and
Speaker 1: as you said, not radically different show. Really, I mean
Speaker 1: it's it's I mean, it's like things are changing. It's
Speaker 1: a different thing. The people's popular front of Jude and
Speaker 1: the popular people's front of jud It's that, you know,
Speaker 1: it's that that level of divisiveness. But you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: I would really like it if people listen, if people
Speaker 1: found the podcast, and they appear to be doing so,
Speaker 1: and that's lovely. But I don't ever take it for granted.
Speaker 1: I do not take it for granted because Simon and
Speaker 1: I would like to carry on doing it. We love
Speaker 1: doing that show, and we can only carry on doing
Speaker 1: it if people listen to it. So I know this
Speaker 1: sounds needy and pleady, but you know, please download it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think they. I think they will and I'm sure
Speaker 1: if they're listening to this they already do. Mark made
Speaker 1: God bless you. Thank for your God bless I would
Speaker 1: thank your band stopped them recording. Thank you. That was
Speaker 1: a real pleasure. Thank you. So that was episode two
Speaker 1: hundred and one. Head over to the Patreon at patron
Speaker 1: dot com forward slash Brett Goldstein for the extra twenty
Speaker 1: minutes of chat, secrets and video with Mark. Don't forget
Speaker 1: to get your tickets for the live show at the
Speaker 1: Hackney Empire July second at hack the Empire dot co
Speaker 1: dot uk or Placed dot co dot uk. So listen.
Speaker 1: Last week I said that I was going to take
Speaker 1: a break from the podcast. I had so many nice
Speaker 1: messages from loads and loads of people, and I would
Speaker 1: like you to know that they all meant and awful
Speaker 1: lot to me. At the moments. Were very bad about
Speaker 1: taking his break. But I'm going to take a little break.
Speaker 1: But there will be more podcasts, I'm sure. So hold
Speaker 1: on tight. Listen to old ones. If you miss him,
Speaker 1: come see the live show. I appreciate you all and
Speaker 1: I will speak to you soon. Thank you so much too,
Speaker 1: Mark for giving me all his time. Thanks to creepy
Speaker 1: spipeping the distracts some pieces of network. Thanks to Buddy
Speaker 1: Pieces for producing it. Takes to Acost for using it.
Speaker 1: Takes to Adam Richardson for the graphics. Lisallied him for
Speaker 1: the photography. See you very soon, but in the meantime,
Speaker 1: have a lovely week, and please, now more than ever,
Speaker 1: be excellent to each other. Thank you. Crust uncrustam was
Speaker 1: untrust was uncrustam