1
00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:04,240
Speaker 1: Good morning. It's five of the eighth of December here

2
00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:08,320
Speaker 1: in London. This is the Bloomberg Davit Podcast. I'm Caroline HEPKIV.

3
00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:10,760
Speaker 2: And I'm Stephen Carroll. Coming up today, the Palestinian Prime

4
00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:13,480
Speaker 2: Minister tells us his administration is in talks with the

5
00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:16,840
Speaker 2: United States about a post war plan for Gaza.

6
00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:20,840
Speaker 1: The Japanese yen surge is as traders ratchet up bets

7
00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:23,560
Speaker 1: that the Bank of Japan is close to calling time

8
00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:25,320
Speaker 1: on negative rates.

9
00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:29,040
Speaker 2: And a premiership at risk of sinking Kuld Sunak's small

10
00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:32,559
Speaker 2: boats Ruwanda policy capsize. The Prime Minister, let's.

11
00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:34,199
Speaker 1: Start with a roundup of our top stories.

12
00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:38,960
Speaker 2: The Palestinian authority is working with US officials on a

13
00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:41,640
Speaker 2: plan to run Gaza after the end of the war

14
00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:45,600
Speaker 2: between Israel and Hamas. Speaking to Bloomberg, Palestinian Prime Minister

15
00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:48,920
Speaker 2: mohammaj Daia says his preferred outlook would be to see

16
00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:52,440
Speaker 2: Hamas as a junior partner in a post war administration.

17
00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:56,000
Speaker 3: I think if they are ready to come to ground,

18
00:00:56,200 --> 00:01:00,560
Speaker 3: to an agreement and really accept the political block of

19
00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:05,840
Speaker 3: the b law, accept the tools of struggle, because this

20
00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:09,399
Speaker 3: is an important point of war difference between us and them,

21
00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:13,720
Speaker 3: and then there will be a room for talk. Otherwise,

22
00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:17,280
Speaker 3: it's just simply things will continue to.

23
00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:17,720
Speaker 4: Be the same.

24
00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:21,960
Speaker 2: Mahamajdai also turned Blueberg that he doesn't believe Hamas can

25
00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:25,120
Speaker 2: be eradicated by Israel. Those comments are at odds with

26
00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:27,880
Speaker 2: the stated aim of Israel's military campaign to wipe out

27
00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:31,480
Speaker 2: the militant group following the October seventh attack, when some

28
00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:34,920
Speaker 2: one thy two hundred people were killed and hundreds more

29
00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:38,080
Speaker 2: were taken hostage. The subsequent war in Gaza has so

30
00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:42,000
Speaker 2: far killed more than sixteen thousand Palestinians, according to the

31
00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:43,360
Speaker 2: hamastro On Health Ministry.

32
00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:46,680
Speaker 1: Well as the war in Gaza grinds on Israel's Prime

33
00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:50,400
Speaker 1: Minister Benjamin Netnia, who has threatened to devastate Beay route

34
00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:54,400
Speaker 1: if Hezblah opens a second front in the conflict. Netnya,

35
00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:56,960
Speaker 1: who delivered the warning during a visit to a command

36
00:01:57,080 --> 00:02:00,880
Speaker 1: center which oversees units that have traded far with Hesbela

37
00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:03,440
Speaker 1: along the border with Lebanon. Here's what he said.

38
00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:07,680
Speaker 5: The people are proud of you. I also suggest to

39
00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:11,320
Speaker 5: our enemies that they pay attention to this spirit, because

40
00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:14,839
Speaker 5: if Hezbela chooses to start an all out war, then

41
00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:18,680
Speaker 5: it will single handedly turn Beirut in South Lebanon not

42
00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:21,440
Speaker 5: far from here, into Gaza and carn.

43
00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:25,200
Speaker 1: Unis Benjamin Etniahu there, speaking through a translator, His threat

44
00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:28,880
Speaker 1: referred to the destruction that Israel's military has unleashed in

45
00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:31,760
Speaker 1: the Gaza Strip in retaliation for the attack by hermas

46
00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:35,920
Speaker 1: Hezbela's expressed solidarity with the group, and as the fighting

47
00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:39,359
Speaker 1: in Gaza has escalated, cross border fire with Israel has

48
00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:41,040
Speaker 1: become a daily occurrence.

49
00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:44,560
Speaker 2: The Japanese yen has surged over the past twenty four

50
00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:47,079
Speaker 2: hours as traders beth at the Bank of Japan will

51
00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:50,960
Speaker 2: scrap the world's last negative interest rate regime much sooner

52
00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:55,200
Speaker 2: than previously thought. The advance sent Japanese stocks and barns lower.

53
00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:58,280
Speaker 2: Former New York Fed President and Bloomberg opinion columnist Bill

54
00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:01,359
Speaker 2: Dudley says, ending yield curve control is a good thing.

55
00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:04,440
Speaker 6: This has been a multi decade effort, and so if

56
00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:06,480
Speaker 6: they actually managed to exit, I would take that as

57
00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:09,359
Speaker 6: a very good sign. Now, obviously that means that they'll

58
00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:11,240
Speaker 6: be less liquidity coming out of Japan, but I don't

59
00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:13,919
Speaker 6: think the Japanese economy and what the Bank of Japan

60
00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:18,560
Speaker 6: has been doing has huge implications for global liquidity or global.

61
00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:22,240
Speaker 2: Banials, Bloomberg Opinion columnists Bill Dudley, speaking there after the end,

62
00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:25,200
Speaker 2: jumped by almost four percent at one point against the dollar.

63
00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:26,000
Speaker 2: On Thursday.

64
00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:27,000
Speaker 4: Markets will be.

65
00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:30,600
Speaker 2: Watching for any clarification from Governor Kazu Awada of comments

66
00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:32,720
Speaker 2: he made to lawmakers that his job was going to

67
00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:35,120
Speaker 2: get more challenging now.

68
00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:38,800
Speaker 1: EU finance ministers are still scrambling to find an agreement

69
00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:42,200
Speaker 1: on new fiscal rules for the Bloc. After months of haggling,

70
00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:45,080
Speaker 1: nations are understood to be in the final stages of

71
00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:49,080
Speaker 1: negotiating a reform of the Bloc's framework to limit debt

72
00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:53,640
Speaker 1: and deficits. Officials had prepared for a long night of talks,

73
00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:56,240
Speaker 1: but called it a day at around three am in

74
00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:58,920
Speaker 1: Brussels after a deal could not be reached. The current

75
00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:02,160
Speaker 1: fiscal rules are expected to kick in again in January

76
00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:05,080
Speaker 1: after being suspended to cope with the pandemic and the

77
00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:07,520
Speaker 1: fallout from Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

78
00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:12,080
Speaker 2: In the UK, Rishi Sunak faces a showdown with hardliners

79
00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:16,040
Speaker 2: in the party over his migration bill. It's a faction

80
00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:19,760
Speaker 2: that has toppled multiple Conservative leaders in recent history. The

81
00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:22,400
Speaker 2: Prime Minister avoided a question on whether he'd call a

82
00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:25,000
Speaker 2: general election if he loses a vote on the bill

83
00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:25,720
Speaker 2: next week.

84
00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:29,039
Speaker 7: I'm confident I can get this thing done. The question

85
00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:30,919
Speaker 7: is for the Labor Party. All right, we're going to

86
00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:33,640
Speaker 7: get this thing into Parliament. We've introduced it in record time.

87
00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:35,360
Speaker 7: I want to get it on the statue books in

88
00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:37,800
Speaker 7: record time. It's very clear what we're about and what

89
00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:40,159
Speaker 7: we're trying to do, and we're confident it's going to work.

90
00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:42,080
Speaker 7: And my track record tells you that I can get

91
00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:42,600
Speaker 7: things done.

92
00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:46,640
Speaker 2: Labour has said that they will not support Sunak's bill.

93
00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:52,200
Speaker 1: Jeremy Hunt's flagship financial reforms, meanwhile, will make no substantial

94
00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:54,440
Speaker 1: change to the economy. That is the view of a

95
00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:58,880
Speaker 1: report from the UK's parliament Parliamentary Treasury Select Committee Bloombags.

96
00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:01,480
Speaker 1: James Wilcock has more the scathing assessments.

97
00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:04,360
Speaker 8: The plans were trailed as a big bang, an echo

98
00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:06,960
Speaker 8: of Market Thatcher's changes to the City of London.

99
00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:10,360
Speaker 9: Well, no, they're being called the Edinburgh Reforms and they're

100
00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:13,960
Speaker 9: a very ambitious set of reforms to seize on our

101
00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:17,960
Speaker 9: Brexit freedoms. To deliver a smarter regulatory regime, one that's

102
00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:21,640
Speaker 9: right for the circumstances we find ourselves in now, and

103
00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:24,440
Speaker 9: that work in the interests of all the British people

104
00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:25,520
Speaker 9: across the country.

105
00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:29,200
Speaker 8: That City Minister Andrew Griffith on our program one year ago.

106
00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:33,520
Speaker 8: But instead of revamping Britain's financial sector, the Treasury Select

107
00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:36,800
Speaker 8: Committee says nothing major has been achieved. They say the

108
00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:39,599
Speaker 8: reforms will have zero economic impact and some of the

109
00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:42,599
Speaker 8: policies amount to a little more than paper pushing. The

110
00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:45,960
Speaker 8: government responded to the damning report from the Conservative led committee,

111
00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:48,640
Speaker 8: saying a year was too soon to gauge the impact

112
00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:52,880
Speaker 8: of the reforms. In London. James Wilcock Bloomberg Radio and.

113
00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:56,599
Speaker 2: Move over Walmart's Walton's. Another family has emerged as the

114
00:05:56,760 --> 00:06:00,560
Speaker 2: richest dynasty in the world for the first time. Dab's

115
00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:05,040
Speaker 2: House of Nahyan joined Bloomberg's annual ranking of family fortunes

116
00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:08,159
Speaker 2: with a three hundred and five billion dollar fortune. The

117
00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:11,760
Speaker 2: Gulf Royals took the top spot as the world's richest family.

118
00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:15,760
Speaker 2: Another notable riser was the sixth generation dynasty behind luxury

119
00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:19,159
Speaker 2: brand Ermez, who added fifty six billion dollars to take

120
00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:21,680
Speaker 2: the third spot. Bloomberg found that as a group, the

121
00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:25,359
Speaker 2: world's richest family families have gotten one point five trillion

122
00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:29,120
Speaker 2: dollars wealthier since the last ranking. No, No moment will

123
00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:31,159
Speaker 2: bring you more of that exclusive interview with the Palestinian

124
00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:33,440
Speaker 2: Prime Minister. But first, a story that caught Aurai here

125
00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:37,720
Speaker 2: in the UK about how much the Bank of Mom

126
00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:40,800
Speaker 2: and Dad is really worth to young people who are

127
00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:45,000
Speaker 2: buying property, and new figures putting it at twenty five

128
00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:48,400
Speaker 2: thousand pounds the average amount of money that Britain's wealthy

129
00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:51,600
Speaker 2: parents are giving to their children to buy property Leader

130
00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:53,160
Speaker 2: figures in the Institute for Fiscal Studies.

131
00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:56,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think this just under lines the issue that

132
00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:58,840
Speaker 1: the UK has with rising inequality, which has been a

133
00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:01,320
Speaker 1: problem for the last decade. I mean, twenty five thousand

134
00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:03,520
Speaker 1: pounds I would have thought is actually quite a conservative

135
00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:06,120
Speaker 1: estimate of your China buy a property in the southeast

136
00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:09,240
Speaker 1: of England. But it just shows Yeah, and we've done

137
00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:11,520
Speaker 1: a number of stories about this. You know, it's not

138
00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:13,120
Speaker 1: just the Bank of Mom and Dad. Some sorts other

139
00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:16,560
Speaker 1: relatives also that are being asked the difficulties of trying

140
00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:18,640
Speaker 1: to live in one of the most expensive cities.

141
00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:21,040
Speaker 2: And it's the contrast between those that can afford to

142
00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:23,720
Speaker 2: give their children money, which is helping them onto the

143
00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:26,400
Speaker 2: property ladder, versus those that can't, and how much that's

144
00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:29,280
Speaker 2: proving an obstacle for those people who, you know, given

145
00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:31,080
Speaker 2: higher interest rates, the cost of course of paying a

146
00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:34,239
Speaker 2: mortgage is much more expensive, but perhaps less said about

147
00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:36,480
Speaker 2: the huge obstacle of being able to get the mortgage

148
00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:37,200
Speaker 2: in the first place.

149
00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:40,360
Speaker 1: No, absolutely, I think it's. Yeah, it's very telling, especially

150
00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:44,240
Speaker 1: as we see overall debt household debt to income ratios

151
00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:47,040
Speaker 1: going up so much. Yeah, it's a real point that

152
00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:49,360
Speaker 1: I think is becoming increasingly political.

153
00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:51,600
Speaker 2: Well, let's bring you more out of our exclusive interview

154
00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:54,600
Speaker 2: with the Palestinian Prime Minister. In the broad ranging conversation

155
00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:58,480
Speaker 2: with our Israel BUA chief Ethan Brohner, Mahamachdaia discusses his

156
00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:02,360
Speaker 2: recent meetings with US officials, had the Palestinian authority wants

157
00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:05,920
Speaker 2: to be involved in rebuilding Gaza when the wars, and

158
00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:09,560
Speaker 2: his hopes for an opportunity for a peace agreement establishing

159
00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:12,200
Speaker 2: a Palestinian state. Take a listen now to some of

160
00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:12,720
Speaker 2: that interview.

161
00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:16,840
Speaker 3: Gaza is an integral part of the state of Balistline

162
00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:21,120
Speaker 3: and the Balestinian territory includes Gaza, West Bank and Jerusalem.

163
00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:24,080
Speaker 3: So when we talk about two states, the geography of

164
00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:28,080
Speaker 3: the two states is Gaza, Jerusalem and the West Bank.

165
00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:33,160
Speaker 3: So this integral part of the Balistinian territory should always

166
00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:33,920
Speaker 3: be there.

167
00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:36,400
Speaker 4: Is there a fear of going in after this.

168
00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:41,320
Speaker 10: Operation by Israel that you're sort of following in under

169
00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:42,920
Speaker 10: tanks concern?

170
00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:45,240
Speaker 3: We said that we are not going to go there

171
00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:48,960
Speaker 3: on and Israelian military what does it mean? It means

172
00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:53,320
Speaker 3: that for us there has to be an arrangement. Our

173
00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:58,040
Speaker 3: people are there and we need to put together a

174
00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:01,160
Speaker 3: structure and we need to put together a mechanism. This

175
00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:04,040
Speaker 3: is something that we are working on with the international

176
00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:07,200
Speaker 3: community in order for us to make it possible. There

177
00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:13,040
Speaker 3: were there will be huge needs in terms of relief, reconstruction,

178
00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:15,240
Speaker 3: to remedy the wounds.

179
00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:17,440
Speaker 4: And are you ready to take that on?

180
00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:23,079
Speaker 3: Not by ourselves, I mean, obviously we need international assistance,

181
00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:23,720
Speaker 3: but this.

182
00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:26,720
Speaker 10: Is your plan, your planners that the PA would when

183
00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:32,640
Speaker 10: this thing ends, be the kind of vehicle for rebuilding Gaza.

184
00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:36,720
Speaker 3: By all means. Look, when Israel incursed into Gaza in

185
00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:42,079
Speaker 3: twenty fourteen, who did all the reconstruction, and we were

186
00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:47,880
Speaker 3: still reconstructing Gaza. Most of the most of aspects of

187
00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:51,640
Speaker 3: infrastructure has been actually built by the Palatino authority, and

188
00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:54,640
Speaker 3: even before the war, I should tell you that there

189
00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:58,959
Speaker 3: were there under implementation a total value of eight hundred

190
00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:02,720
Speaker 3: million dollars of infrastructure projects, that is and that has

191
00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:09,000
Speaker 3: been under implementation by US, the roads, hospitals, water networks, electricity,

192
00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:12,600
Speaker 3: desalination plants and so on. So we, as I told you,

193
00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:16,280
Speaker 3: we never abandoned Gaza, We never left Gaza. So now

194
00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:20,400
Speaker 3: any day after it should also include a package of

195
00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:23,720
Speaker 3: assistance with the full engagement of the international community, because

196
00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:25,800
Speaker 3: ourselves we cannot do it.

197
00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:26,719
Speaker 4: A lot.

198
00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:32,359
Speaker 10: The relationship between the PA and Hammas is very complicated.

199
00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:35,120
Speaker 10: It's been there was after all, civil war, as you

200
00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:38,679
Speaker 10: said in two thousand and seven. But the Israeli say

201
00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:44,520
Speaker 10: they want to eradicate Hamas. Is that a goal that

202
00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:45,600
Speaker 10: is achievable?

203
00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:46,719
Speaker 4: Can you do it?

204
00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:50,640
Speaker 3: First of all, you know, we tried four times or

205
00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:54,720
Speaker 3: more to come to an agreement with Hamas, but it

206
00:10:54,800 --> 00:11:00,000
Speaker 3: didn't work and correct and we signed four agreements. Unfortunately

207
00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:03,960
Speaker 3: none of them was ever implemented by them. By them

208
00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:08,079
Speaker 3: and recently we have had a dialogue in Egypt and

209
00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:12,119
Speaker 3: Alamen and we agreed on certain issues, we did disagree

210
00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:14,640
Speaker 3: on a number of issues, and we did form a

211
00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:18,120
Speaker 3: committee to keep them engaged. That was the idea. But

212
00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:21,040
Speaker 3: unfortunately all these sort of things has happened, and then

213
00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:24,520
Speaker 3: now things are going in a totally different direction. Now.

214
00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:27,119
Speaker 3: For Israel to say that they are going to eradicate

215
00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:30,760
Speaker 3: or eliminate Hamas, I don't think that's a possible goal

216
00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:34,440
Speaker 3: to achieve simply because Hamas is not in Gaza only

217
00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:39,240
Speaker 3: Hamas is in Libanon, Hamas in leadership, everybody knows in Kata,

218
00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:41,920
Speaker 3: and they're here in the West Bank and so on

219
00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:46,160
Speaker 3: and so forth. So what is needed really is a

220
00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:51,560
Speaker 3: situation in which that Palestinian unity should be allowed to

221
00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:57,480
Speaker 3: function on very clear bonds and agenda. We did both together,

222
00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:01,400
Speaker 3: certain bonds for Hamas to accept the never accepted, including

223
00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:05,559
Speaker 3: the recognition of international legitimacy, United National Resolutions, be a

224
00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:08,040
Speaker 3: low commitments, and so on and so forth. We even

225
00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:11,800
Speaker 3: invited Hamas to become part of the Balistinian Balistan Liberation

226
00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:14,959
Speaker 3: organ They never wanted to. Hamas wanted to take things

227
00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:17,960
Speaker 3: their own way. Either their way or the highway, and

228
00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:20,600
Speaker 3: it seems that way are on the highway. So that

229
00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:24,839
Speaker 3: is where the situation is now. As I said, whether

230
00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:30,040
Speaker 3: Israel will be able to achieve what they are claiming

231
00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:31,440
Speaker 3: to do, I doubt that.

232
00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:34,960
Speaker 10: But on the other hand, in no way to say

233
00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:38,640
Speaker 10: that you were in favor of what's happening. The suppression

234
00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:42,000
Speaker 10: of Hamas ultimately needs to happen in some way. If

235
00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:43,800
Speaker 10: they're not going to come into the pl or if

236
00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:49,000
Speaker 10: they're not going to foreswear their armed struggle and join

237
00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:52,400
Speaker 10: in some international legitimacy, what needs to happen with Hamas?

238
00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:54,120
Speaker 4: What can you see happening?

239
00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:58,280
Speaker 3: Well, I think Hamas before October seven is one thing,

240
00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:02,600
Speaker 3: and Hamas after point and so, and therefore, I think

241
00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:05,400
Speaker 3: if they are ready to come to ground, to an

242
00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:10,720
Speaker 3: agreement and really accept the political platform of the blow,

243
00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:15,679
Speaker 3: accept the tools of struggle, because this is an important

244
00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:20,360
Speaker 3: point of difference between us and them, and then there

245
00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:24,600
Speaker 3: will be a room for talk. Otherwise it's just simply

246
00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:28,280
Speaker 3: things will continue to be the same. And even Palestinians

247
00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:32,560
Speaker 3: should not be divided. We have been divided. Unfortunately. Hamas

248
00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:36,199
Speaker 3: took over Gaza by force in two thousand and seven

249
00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:38,880
Speaker 3: and this should not have lasted for seventeen years.

250
00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:42,400
Speaker 2: That was the Palaestinian Prime Minister, Mohamachsdai. They're speaking to

251
00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:46,600
Speaker 2: Bloomberg's Israel Bureau chief, Ethan Browner, and Ethan joins us

252
00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:50,319
Speaker 2: now for more, Ethan, is this a realistic plan from

253
00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:53,640
Speaker 2: the Palestinian prime minister for governing Gaza after the war?

254
00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:58,959
Speaker 10: Well, I mean that's a great question. Look, there are

255
00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:02,040
Speaker 10: no realistic plan right now. In every direction you look,

256
00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:06,240
Speaker 10: you see an enormous obstacle. The idea that there has

257
00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:09,920
Speaker 10: to be a Palestinian administrative force in charge of a

258
00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:14,600
Speaker 10: group of Palestinians in Gossam makes enormous sense. Now, what

259
00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:17,640
Speaker 10: the Prime Minister is saying is that after what goes

260
00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:19,840
Speaker 10: on now, after the seventh of October, in the war

261
00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:23,600
Speaker 10: that follows, that Hamas will perhaps be a chastened group

262
00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:26,600
Speaker 10: with a slightly different leadership, more willing to join the

263
00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:31,160
Speaker 10: PLO in its acceptance of the legitimacy of Israel. Of course,

264
00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:33,920
Speaker 10: the whole idea of Hamas from its birth in the

265
00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:37,800
Speaker 10: late eighties was precisely because it refused ever.

266
00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:39,720
Speaker 4: To recognize the legitimacy of Israel.

267
00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:44,280
Speaker 10: So you know, it's an enormous change that he's thinking

268
00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:47,000
Speaker 10: is going to happen. They've tried for years to bring

269
00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:50,040
Speaker 10: them into the PLO and have failed, so it doesn't

270
00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:51,000
Speaker 10: look very likely.

271
00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:53,000
Speaker 4: On the other hand, the Israeli.

272
00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:55,000
Speaker 10: Argument that we're going to destroy Hamas and it will

273
00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:58,120
Speaker 10: never exist again also seems unrealistic to most people who

274
00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:00,120
Speaker 10: look at it. So there we are.

275
00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:05,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I thought it was a fascinating interview to

276
00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:10,760
Speaker 1: simply understand, you know, the difficulties that Mohammed ssta is in. Also,

277
00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:14,840
Speaker 1: he's also highly critical of Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

278
00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:19,960
Speaker 1: Did you get the impression that this Palestinian leadership could

279
00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:21,800
Speaker 1: actually negotiate with Israel?

280
00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:26,880
Speaker 10: Well, with Anne Israel, but with this Israel it doesn't

281
00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:28,040
Speaker 10: seem at all likely.

282
00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:31,200
Speaker 4: I mean, they all despise one another right now. And

283
00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:32,720
Speaker 4: you know this, it's.

284
00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:34,840
Speaker 10: Also true that that Prime Minister in the tenn now,

285
00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:39,200
Speaker 10: in his very right wing government, is openly opposed to

286
00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:42,360
Speaker 10: a Palestinian state, which is the whole goal of the

287
00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:46,720
Speaker 10: Palestinian authority. So you know, there's a lot of a

288
00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:50,760
Speaker 10: lot of tension there. So I can't really see that

289
00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:53,960
Speaker 10: happening now. It's also fair to imagine that when this

290
00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:57,640
Speaker 10: war ends a certain point, there will be perhaps new

291
00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:00,720
Speaker 10: elections in Israel and perhaps a slightly different set of

292
00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:03,920
Speaker 10: characters in charge, and that could make a difference. But

293
00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:07,520
Speaker 10: I mean, I think we're in a very very difficult place,

294
00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:10,840
Speaker 10: which is why there is so much destruction underway.

295
00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:17,280
Speaker 2: Muhammasdays still did emphasize how invested the Palestinian Authority, the

296
00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:20,920
Speaker 2: Palestinian Rational Organization is in Gaza as well, talking about

297
00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:25,080
Speaker 2: the employees that they still have working there as well.

298
00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:29,200
Speaker 2: He also seemed optimistic about the idea that perhaps a

299
00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:33,400
Speaker 2: crisis could leave an opening for a bigger peace negotiation.

300
00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:35,760
Speaker 2: Took us through what he had to say about that.

301
00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:39,840
Speaker 10: Yeah, so on the first point, this is the case.

302
00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:41,560
Speaker 10: I mean, just it's you know, it's hard for everyone

303
00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:45,200
Speaker 10: to keep in mind the history. But between the mid

304
00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:48,280
Speaker 10: nineties and two thousand and seven, when Hamas threw the

305
00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:51,960
Speaker 10: Palastinian Authority out, the Palatine Authority ran Gaza, as it

306
00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:53,840
Speaker 10: did the West Bank, and.

307
00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:57,800
Speaker 4: It had twenty five thirty forty thousand.

308
00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:02,880
Speaker 10: Employees left there it was thrown out and kept paying them.

309
00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:04,760
Speaker 4: Now, some of them kept working in the.

310
00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:08,720
Speaker 10: Health ministry and the schools the security forces. Some twenty

311
00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:10,840
Speaker 10: thousand of them just stayed home and got paid for

312
00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:15,000
Speaker 10: the last fifteen or seventeen years. So what he's saying is, look,

313
00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:17,840
Speaker 10: we have people on the ground, this is not foreign

314
00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:19,120
Speaker 10: territory to us.

315
00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:22,480
Speaker 4: We can get going right away. So that's the idea

316
00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:23,200
Speaker 4: of that.

317
00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:27,159
Speaker 10: In terms of there being a kind of international conference

318
00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:31,680
Speaker 10: to establish peace between Israel and the Palestinians, that's an

319
00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:34,200
Speaker 10: idea that the Palestinians have pushed for many, many years

320
00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:38,040
Speaker 10: because they feel impotent alone against the Israelis. The Israelis

321
00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:41,720
Speaker 10: have always rejected it because they consider the international community

322
00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:44,440
Speaker 10: to be too hostile, much of it especially at the.

323
00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:46,679
Speaker 4: UN, and it has been a non starter.

324
00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:49,480
Speaker 10: And by the way, it's also true that what the

325
00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:50,880
Speaker 10: Palstinian Prime Minister.

326
00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:53,679
Speaker 4: Wants is full membership for.

327
00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:57,320
Speaker 10: The Palestinian Authority for the State of Palestine in the UN,

328
00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:01,359
Speaker 10: something which the US Congress has specifically voted. Again, so

329
00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:05,320
Speaker 10: as I say, a lot of no exit signs in

330
00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:06,320
Speaker 10: all directions.

331
00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:11,720
Speaker 1: On a last but very important point, we've also been

332
00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:14,920
Speaker 1: hearing and played for the clip of the Israeli prime

333
00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:18,280
Speaker 1: ministers speaking in Hebrew making this direct threat to Hesbala

334
00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:22,520
Speaker 1: that Israel would turn Beirut and southern Lebanon into Gaza

335
00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:25,440
Speaker 1: and Han Yunis if it opens an all out war.

336
00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:28,760
Speaker 1: In your assessment, Ethan, how much of a risk, how

337
00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:31,120
Speaker 1: much of people thinking about that now?

338
00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:33,120
Speaker 4: Well, this is an enormous risk.

339
00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:36,040
Speaker 10: This is something the Israeli leadership has said from day one,

340
00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:41,480
Speaker 10: since October seventh, that if Hesbalah thinks it's going to

341
00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:45,720
Speaker 10: start raining down missiles on Israel and join Hamas in

342
00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:48,880
Speaker 10: this war, that it is going to and has used

343
00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:52,720
Speaker 10: those exact words turn Beirut into Gaza, into Gaza City.

344
00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:56,840
Speaker 10: So a good portion of the Israeli air force is

345
00:18:57,080 --> 00:18:58,640
Speaker 10: up north in Israel.

346
00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:01,360
Speaker 4: Ready to fail. Southern Lebanon.

347
00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:04,480
Speaker 10: An enormous, enormous damage would be done, which I think

348
00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:09,080
Speaker 10: is probably understood by Nasala, the leader of his Bola,

349
00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:11,760
Speaker 10: and by the leadership there, and one of the reasons,

350
00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:14,920
Speaker 10: perhaps the main reason it has not become more involved

351
00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:15,480
Speaker 10: in this war.

352
00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:19,560
Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg Daybreak Europe, your morning brief on the

353
00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:22,680
Speaker 2: stories making news from London to Wall Street and beyond.

354
00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:26,119
Speaker 1: Look for us on your podcast feed every morning, on Apple,

355
00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:28,960
Speaker 1: Spotify and anywhere else you get your podcasts.

356
00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:32,000
Speaker 2: You can also listen live each morning on London DAB Radio,

357
00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:34,760
Speaker 2: the Bloomberg Business app, and Bloomberg dot Com.

358
00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:37,560
Speaker 1: Our flagship New York station, is also available on your

359
00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:42,320
Speaker 1: Amazon Alexa devices. Just say Alexa Play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

360
00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:45,200
Speaker 2: I'm Caroline Hepka and I'm Stephen Carroll. Join us again

361
00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:47,840
Speaker 2: tomorrow morning for all the news you need to start

362
00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:54,480
Speaker 2: your day right here on Bloomberg Daybreak Europe