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Speaker 1: On the dol cast, the questions asked if movies have

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Speaker 1: women in um, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands?

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Speaker 1: Or do they have individualism the patriarchy? Zef In best

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Speaker 1: start changing it with the Bell cast. Um, Hi, I

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Speaker 1: just wandered into this house and I'm in the shower.

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Speaker 1: Who am I? Oh my gosh, let me help you.

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Speaker 1: I'm so nice. I just moved here and I'm going

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Speaker 1: to be a big star. Cool, just kidding, And that's

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Speaker 1: the summary of Holland. Yeah, you're not gonna hire a

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Speaker 1: hit man to murder me, are you know? Okay, I

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Speaker 1: would never do that. I'm so nice. Look at me.

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Speaker 1: I'm so nice. I just got off a bus and

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Speaker 1: everyone believes in me and I'm an amazing actor. Cool.

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Speaker 1: Let's kiss. I did have this thought. Okay, does this

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Speaker 1: whole movie pass because okay, spoiler alert. No, we haven't

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Speaker 1: even told you what the movie were, the podcast or

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Speaker 1: who we are yet, but I'm going to spoil the

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Speaker 1: whole movie right now in Mholland Drive. Does the whole

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Speaker 1: movie pass the Bechdel test? Because it all takes place

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Speaker 1: inside of one woman's head, and so, in a way,

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Speaker 1: they're all extensions of one woman's brain, and therefore every

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Speaker 1: exchange in the entire movie is just a woman talking

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Speaker 1: to herself and rationalizing the events that have for the

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Speaker 1: first two hours. I think you could make that argument

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Speaker 1: and then right, right, because this movie is two and

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Speaker 1: a half hours long. But I think, yeah, for for

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Speaker 1: the majority of the movie, it's it's a woman talking

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Speaker 1: to herself through different conduits, but it's all in the

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Speaker 1: same person's mind. I don't know if you if you

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Speaker 1: take that interpretation of the movie, because famously David Lynch

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Speaker 1: is like, I'm not telling you what my movie is about.

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Speaker 1: He's like that, He like, look, I'm taking the most

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Speaker 1: basic one, and I feel fine with that. In that

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Speaker 1: read though, I think that it's it's a good hack,

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Speaker 1: and yet we have so much to talk about. Welcome

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Speaker 1: to the Bechtel Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus, my

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Speaker 1: name is Caitlin Dronte, and this is our podcast where

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Speaker 1: we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using the

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Speaker 1: Bechtel test as a jumping off point. But oh no,

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Speaker 1: I have amnesia and I don't remember what the Bechtel

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Speaker 1: test is. Jamie, tell me, well, this is all my dreams,

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Speaker 1: so I have all the information. Great. The Bechtel Test

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Speaker 1: is a media metric created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel,

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Speaker 1: sometimes called the Bechtel Wallace Test. A lot of permutations

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Speaker 1: of the test. The one we use is this, we

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Speaker 1: require that there be two characters with names of a

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Speaker 1: marginalized gender talking to each other about something other than

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Speaker 1: a man for more than two lines of dialogue. And

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Speaker 1: it should be some sort of narratively impactful exchange. Not

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Speaker 1: really a problem for this movie, so I'm not going

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Speaker 1: to get much more into it than that. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: today's movie, as we said, and as the title of

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Speaker 1: the episode would indicate, its Mulholland Drive. And it's interesting

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Speaker 1: because it's we have This has happened, I guess a

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Speaker 1: couple of times over the years, but we have prepared

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Speaker 1: for this episode previously for a show we were going

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Speaker 1: to do in Philadelphia, and then we I forget what happened.

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Speaker 1: But then we're like, we're not doing that, and I

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Speaker 1: think we we found a guest that we were like,

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Speaker 1: you can do whatever movie you want. We were going

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Speaker 1: to do Mulholland Drive, but you don't have to do that.

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Speaker 1: If you don't want to, and she was like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's do something else. So that's why we changed it. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I think, I don't. I mean, this is an amazing story.

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Speaker 1: No matter what, our listeners are probably really engaged in

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Speaker 1: this story of scheduling from three years ago. I don't

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Speaker 1: really remember. I just remember that we ended up. If

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Speaker 1: this is so boring. Anyways, we're covering the movie now

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Speaker 1: and we've got an amazing guests, so let's get them

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Speaker 1: in here. We certainly do. She is the host of

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Speaker 1: the Real Podcast. She's a contributor to Cinema fem magazine.

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Speaker 1: It's don Borchart. Welcome. Hi, thank you so much for

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Speaker 1: having me. Oh, we're so stoked to have you, and

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Speaker 1: thank you for bringing us. I think this is this

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Speaker 1: has definitely been a request for the entire time this

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Speaker 1: show has existed, and we've been putting it off. How

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Speaker 1: you've been reluctant. I'm happy to be talking about it today.

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Speaker 1: I'm the guest for you. Well, let's get started there then.

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Speaker 1: What is your history and connection with the movie Mulholland Drive. Well,

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Speaker 1: I've seen it a few times over the years, probably

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Speaker 1: first in college would be my guess. Um, and then

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Speaker 1: I watched it again in preparation for this podcast, and

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Speaker 1: I think mainly I just love David Lynchen was a

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Speaker 1: big fan of Twin Peaks Um, and so I was

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Speaker 1: excited to choose this film, and you guys sent me

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Speaker 1: a couple of options. I was like, oh, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: want to do this one. And a couple of years

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Speaker 1: ago I went to the Twin Peaks town and so

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Speaker 1: that's just kind of like further my like nerd um,

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Speaker 1: I don't know what, I can't remember what the town

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Speaker 1: is actually called, but where you can see like the

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Speaker 1: waterfalls and the diner and all that, and like the

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Speaker 1: area where the sign is, so that's not Maholland Drive.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I'm excited to talk about this one today.

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Speaker 1: Hell yeah we have Okay, this is one of my

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Speaker 1: favorite episode dynamics we have coming up, because I feel

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Speaker 1: like this is I'm trying to think of another example

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Speaker 1: this has happened where we've had a guest who is

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Speaker 1: very into the director. We've had a Caitlin who is

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Speaker 1: very not into the director, and then we have Jamie

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Speaker 1: scrambling around the centrist of the operation. Not in life,

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Speaker 1: hard left in life, but sometimes on the podcast, I

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Speaker 1: take a centerstance because Caitlin, what is your history with

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Speaker 1: mholland Drive? Oh gosh, yes, I have seen it a

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Speaker 1: number of times. Also for the first time in college,

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Speaker 1: so it would have been like mid two thousands that

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Speaker 1: that I saw the first time once again sometime after that,

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Speaker 1: maybe like you know your early and then uh, probably

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Speaker 1: three times. I watched this movie so many times to

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Speaker 1: prep for this recording, because again the movie is famously

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Speaker 1: difficult to interpret. So he was like, what is this about? Again?

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Speaker 1: And I kept rewatching it, hoping that I would come

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Speaker 1: to a better understanding at any point, and that didn't happen.

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Speaker 1: So generally, Okay, here's a little story time, UM hit

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Speaker 1: it yesterday. I think I tweeted something, which is mistake

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Speaker 1: number one. Never good start to a story. I tweeted,

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Speaker 1: I resent all the years I felt pressure to pretend

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Speaker 1: that David Lynch is any good. Now I do wish

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Speaker 1: I had reworded that. I wish I had you fired

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Speaker 1: to take into the Internet. I did, which is a risk.

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Speaker 1: It is a risk, but I wish I had said

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Speaker 1: I resent all the years I felt pressure to pretend

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Speaker 1: that I like David Lynch's work. Because there's a big

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Speaker 1: difference between I like something or I don't like something,

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Speaker 1: and something is good or something is bad. So I

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Speaker 1: recognize that I agree. However, I will say Twitter is

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Speaker 1: a website for adults that should know that and and

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Speaker 1: perhaps um not attack you based on a very simple,

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Speaker 1: easy to understand the way of like, you know, I agree,

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Speaker 1: I agree, Okay, Okay. I was like, I don't be

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Speaker 1: too hard on yourself in this situation because people know that.

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Speaker 1: But that's not what Twitter. That's just not how people

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Speaker 1: act on Twitter. Sure, So basically what happened after that

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Speaker 1: is dozens and dozens of people, uh got into my

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Speaker 1: mentions and insulted me in various ways because I forgot

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Speaker 1: something that I should have remembered, which is that and

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't even this doesn't just apply to David Lynch fans.

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Speaker 1: I feel like this applies to a lot of things

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Speaker 1: that have a like cult following status, where some of

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Speaker 1: the fans sometimes take it personally when you don't like

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Speaker 1: the thing that they like. So a lot of David

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Speaker 1: Lynch fans did not like what I had to say,

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Speaker 1: and they started bullying me online. That's what I've been

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Speaker 1: dealing with so I've been, you know, just um trying

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Speaker 1: to ignore all of my Twitter notifications for the past

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Speaker 1: several hours. Um. So this is all to say that

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Speaker 1: my and I don't even I don't even dislike all

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Speaker 1: of David Lynch's work. I find twin Peaks to be

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Speaker 1: generally enjoy a I like The Elephant Man. Other of

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Speaker 1: his films not so much. I do deeply, deeply, deeply

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Speaker 1: hate Erase Your Head. And I also I am not

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Speaker 1: a fan of Mulholland Drive, but I do think it'll

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Speaker 1: generate some interesting conversations that we will have soon on

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Speaker 1: this podcast. Um. But yeah, I generally I have a

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Speaker 1: tumultuous relationship with David Lynch's work Drama the End, Jamie,

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Speaker 1: what about you? Uh no real saga or lore to

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Speaker 1: go with it. I I think, like my my whole

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Speaker 1: ethostards David Lynch. I don't love Mulholland Drive. I've seen

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Speaker 1: a couple of times before. It's not my favorite. I

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Speaker 1: just I find David Lynch to be a very like

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Speaker 1: I'm glad he exists because I do feel like there

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Speaker 1: is a dearth of a tours who are just fu

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Speaker 1: in weirdos. And I think that slowly this is happening

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Speaker 1: more and more that there was more diversity in uh,

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Speaker 1: that category of filmmaker of just like Carte blanche weirdos. Um,

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Speaker 1: he's not a weirdo. That lines up exactly with my interest.

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Speaker 1: And I do think that there's a lot of interesting

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Speaker 1: discussion around his work and whiteness and his work as

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Speaker 1: it pertains to women, because he's just like I'm just

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Speaker 1: I'm interested in him as a cultural figure. He seems

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Speaker 1: like a lovely man. Every every interview I've seen with him,

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Speaker 1: he seems like a sweet old man, right true. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I also have done some of his meditation stuff

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Speaker 1: and it's pretty fucking good. Uh, But that's not what

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Speaker 1: we're talking about. We're talking about the movie. I think

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Speaker 1: that it is like interesting to kind of look at,

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Speaker 1: especially how it's it's most male oturs that we talk about.

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Speaker 1: You know. The issue is that they underdeveloped female characters.

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Speaker 1: They never you know, feel like centering them, They never

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Speaker 1: feel like really explore boring their motivations, their ideas, where

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Speaker 1: they're coming from. That isn't David Lynch's problem at all.

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Speaker 1: But he's still weird with women, where Like it's just

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Speaker 1: like he seems to in his work that I've seen,

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Speaker 1: and I have not seen all of it, so take

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Speaker 1: everything I'm saying with a grain of salt, and I'm

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Speaker 1: sure everyone's gonna be so fucking mad. Is is that?

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Speaker 1: I think it's interesting that there's a mail artor who

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Speaker 1: seems uniquely interested in psychologically torturing female protagonists because he

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Speaker 1: has women as protagonists all the time, but they are

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Speaker 1: always under this like extreme mental distress, and this movie

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Speaker 1: is not an exception to that interest, like Laura's Vontrier like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god. Yeah. And I have to say, I

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Speaker 1: haven't seen all of his films, so I'm not like

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Speaker 1: as intensive a die hard, but I do love him

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Speaker 1: and I agree with what you're saying, Jamie, Like his

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Speaker 1: him as a person just seems so likable and goofy,

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Speaker 1: Like I want him to be like my grandpa. The

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Speaker 1: documentary that I saw what was what was it on?

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Speaker 1: There's a documentary about him because he has this whole

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Speaker 1: and we'll get into this too, I mean, and like

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Speaker 1: he has this whole ethos of like art life and

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Speaker 1: that's his whole, like the way he lives his life.

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Speaker 1: He has his home life, he has his art life

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Speaker 1: and art life is very important to him, and it

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Speaker 1: sounds like a lot of his previous spouses have been

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Speaker 1: shirked and perhaps um mistreated in the interest of art life. Right,

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Speaker 1: but there was a whole movie made about his view

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Speaker 1: on art and now it's like very all encompassing for him.

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Speaker 1: But also, I guess we'll get there. Um. I just

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Speaker 1: am like, you know, then you know, but truly here

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Speaker 1: we are and that's okay. That is okay. Um. Should

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Speaker 1: I do the recap and we'll go from there. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: good luck the cap and then we'll run it back

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Speaker 1: and then recap it in order. You know. I guess

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Speaker 1: what I'll say before you start the recap was I

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Speaker 1: don't know the exact quote, but I read some quote

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Speaker 1: from David Lynch that just said, like I don't understand,

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Speaker 1: like what the problem is. It's a totally cohesive story. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I saw that too. I think he trolls, though I

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Speaker 1: do think that he is like somewhat of a something

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Speaker 1: of a something of a troll. What the funk am

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Speaker 1: I talking about? I think he trolls in interview, Like

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Speaker 1: in interviews, it seems like he has fun being like,

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Speaker 1: what do you mean this movie makes total sense, like

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Speaker 1: pinus Yeah, hard, hard to say. Um. Okay, So the

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Speaker 1: movie opens on a bunch of people swing dancing and

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Speaker 1: then we see a car driving a windy street. It's

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Speaker 1: Mulholland Drive in Los Angeles. Whatever heard of it? I've

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Speaker 1: been my I will say this is this is not

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Speaker 1: a flattering portrayal of David Lynch fans. My first sten

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Speaker 1: worst roommate in l A drove me up to Mulholland

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Speaker 1: Drive on my birthday, two weeks after I moved to

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Speaker 1: l A. And in spite of the fact that I

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Speaker 1: told her I've seen Mulholland Drive before, she essentially held

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Speaker 1: me hostage on Mulholland Drive and recapped the entire movie

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Speaker 1: to me. Didn't love her, moved out three months later. Yikes.

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Speaker 1: I had a comedian friend, or like someone who I

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Speaker 1: was friendly with reply when I told him I wasn't

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Speaker 1: an enormous fan of David Lynch. He called me stupid

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Speaker 1: and said I just didn't get it because I wasn't

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Speaker 1: smart enough. So he's not your friend. Not after that.

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Speaker 1: Good riddance, right. Okay, So in the backseat of this

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Speaker 1: car that's driving on Muholland Drive is a woman played

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Speaker 1: by Laura Harring. The two men in the front seat

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Speaker 1: stopped the car. They point a gun at her. We

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Speaker 1: don't really know what's going on, and before we can

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Speaker 1: find out, two cars full of why old youths, it's

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Speaker 1: the best way I can describe them, come racing down

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Speaker 1: the street and crash into the car that Laura Herring

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Speaker 1: is in. Everyone presumably is killed in this accident, except

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Speaker 1: for this woman who stumbles away from Muholland Drive to

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Speaker 1: Sunset Boulevard, which is like roughly two and a half

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Speaker 1: to three miles by the way, so she stumbles there

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Speaker 1: on foot. I've stumbled. I've stumbled down further length of

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Speaker 1: Sunset Boulevard, and it was not as sexy as it

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Speaker 1: is in the movie. Pretty ugly. That's how I get

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Speaker 1: from your place to my place. But you're not stumbling. No,

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Speaker 1: I look so beautiful when I do it. It reminded

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Speaker 1: me of when I asked directions from this really buff

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Speaker 1: guy one time to go to Runyon Canyon and he

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Speaker 1: pointed me in the direction of the very wrong, very

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Speaker 1: hard path. And I was trying to be like a

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Speaker 1: cute girl with like an outfit on walking on Runyon

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Speaker 1: and ended up like with just like leaves and sticks

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Speaker 1: in my hair and was like sweating profusely and hated

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Speaker 1: every second of it. I love hiking now, but that

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Speaker 1: time I was like, no, honestly brave of you to

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Speaker 1: hike at all. Okay, So she stumbles to the Sunset

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Speaker 1: Boulevard and sneaks into an apartment. The woman who lives

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Speaker 1: there she sees leaving town, so she starts squatting in

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Speaker 1: her apartment. Then we get a scene where a man

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Speaker 1: at a diner's telling another guy about a nightmare that

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Speaker 1: he had about a man with a scary face. Then

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Speaker 1: let me see a scary swamp monster. And you're like,

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Speaker 1: I know this is a metaphor, but I guess I

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Speaker 1: just have to wait two and a half hours to

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Speaker 1: find out what it is for. And I still don't

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Speaker 1: get it. It's failure. I think it's failure in guilt

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Speaker 1: and shame. Anyways. Uh. Then we get a quick scene

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Speaker 1: with a guy whose name is Mr Roke. I think

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Speaker 1: he's like, the girl is still missing, and this is

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Speaker 1: presumably about the woman from the car crash. Then we

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Speaker 1: meet Betty played by Naomi Watts, Naomi Watts is. I

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Speaker 1: view her performance in Mulholland Drive as her preparing for

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Speaker 1: her best role, which is the next year in The Ring.

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Speaker 1: Oh right, I have not seen that movie in such

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Speaker 1: a long time. We should do it at some point,

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Speaker 1: only because it's I don't even know if it's good.

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Speaker 1: I just know that I it's the thing that has

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Speaker 1: scared me most in my entire life. It was very frightening.

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Speaker 1: So Naomi Watts has a special place in my heart

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Speaker 1: for scaring the ship out of me. That movie came

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Speaker 1: out when the Lord of the Rings movies were coming out,

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Speaker 1: and I was just like, the one ring is the

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Speaker 1: only ring I care about. Wow, Well I guess well,

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Speaker 1: I mean I guess that the Lord of the Rings

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Speaker 1: ring is a little better because it's like, yeah, absolute

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Speaker 1: power corrupts absolutely, but you at least get the life

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Speaker 1: longer than seven days once you haven't money. That's not

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Speaker 1: enough time. Dolla lived for five years hanging onto the

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Speaker 1: damn thing. True any way, Okay, So Betty has Betty

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Speaker 1: has just arrived in l A to try to be

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Speaker 1: an actor. She's very starry eyed, she's very sweet and bubbly.

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Speaker 1: She heads to her aunt Ruth's place where she will

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Speaker 1: be staying, which is the same apartment that the woman

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Speaker 1: from the beginning went into. So Betty finds the woman

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Speaker 1: in the shower and assumes that she's a friend of

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Speaker 1: her aunt Ruth. The woman tells Betty that her name

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Speaker 1: is Rita after she sees a poster for a Rita

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Speaker 1: Hayworth movie, and it becomes clear that this woman has

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Speaker 1: amnesia after being in this car crash and doesn't remember

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Speaker 1: her actual name. Meanwhile, Adam Kesher played by Justin Thorrea,

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Speaker 1: is a film director who is so spiky, is soot

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Speaker 1: it You can tell that you're like, oh, this this guy,

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Speaker 1: this is a bad sort of guy. Like how spiky

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Speaker 1: its hair is so fun little anecdote, um, So, David

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Speaker 1: Lynch always has actors like meet with him for like

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Speaker 1: a kind of interview rather than audition him. So anyone

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Speaker 1: he's seriously considering, he'll just sort of meet with and

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Speaker 1: like get to know a little bit. So when he

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Speaker 1: met with Justin throw, Justin throwe had just gotten off

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Speaker 1: of an airplane. It was a long flight. He didn't

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Speaker 1: get any sleep. He was dressed in all black, he

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Speaker 1: had untidy hair, and then Lynch was like, oh wow,

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Speaker 1: this is such a cool look for you. Um, and

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Speaker 1: then he basically mimicked the clothes and the hairstyle he

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Speaker 1: saw him in that day in real life and um

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Speaker 1: put that in the movie. By contrast, Naomi Watts arrived

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Speaker 1: for her interview wearing jeans and little to no makeup,

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Speaker 1: also direct off of an airplane, like a long flight

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Speaker 1: from New York City, and David Lynch asked her to

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Speaker 1: return the next day quote more glammed up. Look, there

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Speaker 1: there's a whole I got a whole little section on

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Speaker 1: how David Lynch treats women that he works with, because

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Speaker 1: that is so oh my god. I'm just like Naomi Watts.

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Speaker 1: That's Jesus Christ right justin Thorow's plain clothes. He's like, king, Wow,

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Speaker 1: I love what you're doing, changing the narrative around clothes

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Speaker 1: and looking like, oh my god, like put it in

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Speaker 1: the movie cut print, that's a rap, and we're like, sure, okay.

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Speaker 1: So Adam Kesher is a film director who some like

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Speaker 1: producers or some industry people are demanding that he cast

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Speaker 1: a specific actress in his movie, someone by the name

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Speaker 1: of Camilla Rhodes. Then we see a scene where a

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Speaker 1: hit man shoots a few people then steals someone's famous

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Speaker 1: black book that's full of phone numbers. If you're one ring.

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Speaker 1: If that will ever come into play at any point

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Speaker 1: in the movie, it does not. Um, it is a

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Speaker 1: metaphor for Hollywood. Ever heard of it? For Hollywood gate keeping? Right,

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Speaker 1: there's anytime I don't know what's happening. I'm like a

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Speaker 1: metaphor for Hollywood. I just am not famous enough to understand. Right.

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Speaker 1: Then Betty talks to her aunt Ruth and realizes that

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Speaker 1: Rita is not a friend of her aunt's. And then

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Speaker 1: Rita confides to Betty that she doesn't know who she is.

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Speaker 1: She doesn't remember anything. So then they go through Rita's

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Speaker 1: purse to try to figure out who she is, but

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Speaker 1: all they find is several stacks of money and a

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Speaker 1: peculiar looking kind of triangular blue key. And we're like,

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Speaker 1: it's a metaphor, but for what I guess I have

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Speaker 1: five more hours of the movie to find out. Um.

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Speaker 1: And this doesn't really jog Rita's memory, except that she

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Speaker 1: does remember Mulholland Drive. Meanwhile, Adam the director goes home

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Speaker 1: after production has been shut down on his movie and

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Speaker 1: finds his wife. His wife in bed with another man.

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Speaker 1: So who is played by come on, wait, who is that?

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Speaker 1: What Billy ray Cyrus? Are you for real? Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: the pool boy Billy ray Cyrus. I just guess I

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Speaker 1: don't know what Billy ray Cyrus looks like. Well clear

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Speaker 1: like that, Caitlin. I do think this is like another

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Speaker 1: micro generational thing where it's like I've seen so much

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Speaker 1: Billy ray Cyrus because if you you had to watch

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Speaker 1: Hannah Montana, it was the law. Oh he was on

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Speaker 1: Hannah Montana because he's Miley Cyrus's father. I've actually never

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Speaker 1: seen that show. Well I I saw. I saw so

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Speaker 1: much of that show. And he plays Miley Cyrus's father,

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Speaker 1: pulling from his own experience as Miley Cyrus's father. And

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Speaker 1: he's not a good act dir He's the worst actor

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Speaker 1: on the show. It's like, actually funny how bad he is.

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Speaker 1: Like it's kind of a perfect role in a way

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Speaker 1: for him because it's so ridiculous, but it's he's terrible.

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Speaker 1: He's the kind of bad actor where he like, maybe

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Speaker 1: I'm just giving him too much credit because I have

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Speaker 1: a nostalgic attachment, but I'm like when Billy ray Cyrus

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Speaker 1: acts terribly worse than I've ever seen someone perform. It's

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Speaker 1: a choice. He's making a choice, and he could be

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Speaker 1: doing a great job. But he's like, well, what if

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Speaker 1: I did a horrible job? What if I sounded like

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Speaker 1: I was reading? I love that theory. Yeah. Anyway, Adam

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Speaker 1: the Director has found his wife in bed with Billy

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Speaker 1: ray Cyrus, apparently so unbelievable, he ruins his wife's jewelry

390
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Speaker 1: and then leaves. Meanwhile, Betty calls the police to see

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Speaker 1: if there was an accident the night before on Mulholland Drive,

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Speaker 1: which she's able to confirm there was, and then she

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Speaker 1: and Rita go to a diner, this same diner where

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Speaker 1: we saw the scary face earlier, where their server is

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Speaker 1: named Diane, which activates something in Rita's memory Diane Selwyn,

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Speaker 1: and she thinks maybe that's her name, so they look

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Speaker 1: up Diane Selwyn in the phone book and find her

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Speaker 1: address back in justin throw Land, Um, some dudes are

399
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Speaker 1: after Adam the director and he is instructed to meet

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Speaker 1: with a guy named the Cowboy, who tells him he

401
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 1: needs to cast this specific actress, Camilla Rhodes in the

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Speaker 1: movie he's making. So then Rita helps Betty prep for

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Speaker 1: an audition. Then we see Betty do the audition. Then

404
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:48,639
Speaker 1: she is brought to the set of the movie Adam

405
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Speaker 1: is directing, where they make eyes at each other and

406
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Speaker 1: it seems like you know, sparks are flying, spikes are

407
00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:02,160
Speaker 1: jelling right you and tell that he likes her because

408
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 1: it likes call boying. His hair gets even point here.

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Speaker 1: I also regret saying that um. Then Adam concedes and

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Speaker 1: casts the woman who he has been pressured to cast.

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Speaker 1: Then Betty leaves the set and she and Rita go

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Speaker 1: to the address of Diane Selwyn to investigate. They break

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Speaker 1: into her apartment and find the dead body of a woman,

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Speaker 1: presumably Diane Selwyn. Rita freaks out. They get out of there,

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Speaker 1: and then that night Betty and Rita sleep in the

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Speaker 1: same bed and start kissing. Rita then wakes up in

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Speaker 1: the middle of the night and takes Betty to this

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Speaker 1: place called Club Salencio. They watch a performance and then

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Speaker 1: suddenly Betty takes a small blue box out of her purse.

420
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Speaker 1: It looks like it matches the blue key they found

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Speaker 1: in Rita's purse. It's another metaphor so they go home

422
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 1: to unlock it, but then Betty seems to disappear, so

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Speaker 1: Rita just opens the box and then we kind of

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Speaker 1: like sink into darkness. We see a few images. We

425
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:20,960
Speaker 1: see the woman's dead body again, we see the cowboy again.

426
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 1: Then we see Betty waking up in a bed, the

427
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:31,680
Speaker 1: bed of Diane Selwyn because she seems to be Diane Selwyn.

428
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:35,679
Speaker 1: She has a blue key, but it looks more like

429
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 1: a regular house key. Now we also see Rita is there,

430
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 1: except now Rita is Camilla Rhodes, who again is the

431
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 1: actress that those people made Adam cast in his movie

432
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 1: Betty a k a. Diane And this is gonna be fun.

433
00:26:56,040 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 1: Rita a k a. Camilla are in a romantic relationship

434
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:05,679
Speaker 1: or recently have been. They seem to be kind of

435
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 1: on the outs, and it seems to be because Adam

436
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 1: the director is directing the movie that they are both

437
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 1: starring in that both Camilla and Diane are in. But

438
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 1: now Camilla has left Diane to be with Adam. We

439
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 1: get a scene where Diane is crying and masturbating. Then

440
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 1: we're like, Okay, I guess this needs to be in

441
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:35,479
Speaker 1: the movie. Then Diane gets a call from Camilla saying

442
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 1: that a car is waiting for her and she needs

443
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 1: to go to an address on mal Holland Drive. And

444
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:43,680
Speaker 1: it's basically the same car ride as the beginning, but

445
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:48,399
Speaker 1: now Naomi Watts is in the backseat instead, but there

446
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 1: was no crash like there was in the beginning. This time,

447
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:54,199
Speaker 1: Diane meets up with Camilla and they go to a

448
00:27:54,280 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 1: party at Adam's house Holland Drive. Ever heard of it? Um.

449
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 1: Diane seems to be having a bit of a breakdown

450
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:09,199
Speaker 1: throughout this party, which continues on for the rest of

451
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 1: the movie. We smash cut to Diane at the diner

452
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 1: that we've seen before. Um. She's talking to the hit

453
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 1: man and she's paying him to kill Camilla. The guy

454
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,679
Speaker 1: with the nightmare about the scary faces. Also there we

455
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:30,359
Speaker 1: see the blue house key again. The scary face person

456
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 1: is outside with the little blue box. Now it's so fun, Kaylee,

457
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 1: and I just took a step outside of the knowing

458
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 1: what you're talking about and being like she does she what?

459
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:48,080
Speaker 1: Are doing a great job to explain? Right, I know,

460
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't know. Am I leaving things out

461
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 1: that are like super important because they're super metaphorical because

462
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 1: I'm like focusing, I'm trying to make sense of the

463
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 1: narrative stuff. But it's all very like symbolic and cerebral.

464
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 1: We can get and we can get into that sure.

465
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,400
Speaker 1: And also we're not here to break down the extremely

466
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 1: specific David Lynch symbols. We're here to talk about the

467
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 1: intersectional aspects of it, so true to Then we cut

468
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 1: to Diane at her home. She's like having a full

469
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 1: breakdown and she pulls out a gun and kills herself

470
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:27,239
Speaker 1: and then she becomes the dead body that Rita and

471
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 1: Betty found and that's where the movie ends more or less.

472
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 1: Let's take a quick break and we will come back

473
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:47,960
Speaker 1: to discuss, and we're back, so okay. Before we start

474
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 1: the discussion, I wanted to check in with everyone and um,

475
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 1: I just want us to all sort of be on

476
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:56,959
Speaker 1: the same page with like the read we're going with.

477
00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:00,080
Speaker 1: I'm aware David Lynch fans that there's a lot of

478
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,960
Speaker 1: different ways to view the sequence of events in this movie,

479
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 1: and that that is it seems like part of why

480
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 1: this movie is so sticky for people, because it's like

481
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 1: it it defies interpretation in many ways. I think it's

482
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 1: probably easiest for the discussion we're having to go with.

483
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 1: I think the most popular interpretation, which is Diane has

484
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 1: called out a hit on a woman she's in love

485
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 1: with named Camilla, who she had a relationship with out

486
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 1: of jealousy, and the majority of the movie with Betty

487
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 1: and with Rita, is this kind of fantasy she's having

488
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 1: making sense of, you know, rearranging events to make her

489
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 1: the hero or at least innocent in a story where

490
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 1: her lover lived out of guilt that she's experiencing in

491
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 1: her actual life. I'm absolutely fine with that interpretation, especially

492
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 1: because David Lynch, his tagline for this movie is a

493
00:30:55,440 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 1: love story in the City of Dreams. I was just

494
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 1: gonna say, I would just go as far as just that,

495
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 1: and that the fantasies are happening in some sort of

496
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 1: dream steak, because there's a sort of consistent laying down

497
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 1: sleeping theme throughout the film, and so I feel like

498
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 1: these I didn't watch it with like the intention of

499
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 1: like pinpointing like scenes and the relation to like sleeping

500
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:26,440
Speaker 1: or laying down, but I feel like if you did,

501
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 1: maybe maybe that would provide some insight it like sections.

502
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 1: But for sure I was I mean, I'll say I'll

503
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 1: start by saying something nice about the movie, which is

504
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 1: like it's I do think that it's it is a

505
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 1: really interesting set up for a movie where it's like,

506
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 1: if you don't know how it ends going in, everyone

507
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 1: in the first two hours or our forty five of

508
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 1: the movie are like a stock character of some type,

509
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 1: where it's like Betty is like just got off of

510
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,160
Speaker 1: pane and has these big dreams and it's kind of nepotism,

511
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 1: but we don't talk about that, and like, you know,

512
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 1: she's like this aspiring young actress. We have the fem

513
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 1: fatale character in the form of Rita. We have like

514
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 1: kind of these like eccentric older women that appear in

515
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 1: David Lynch's work elsewhere, not in a dream state, but

516
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 1: just you know, flat out, but in this um. I

517
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 1: think it's interesting because because we talked about, you know,

518
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 1: stock characters and trope characters so much on this show,

519
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 1: but in the context of this is the dream of

520
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 1: a failed Hollywood actress, it made a lot of sense

521
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 1: to me, and I thought was like a kind of

522
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 1: a cool creative decision that she's using the language of

523
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 1: movies to reinterpret her own life. So like, in terms

524
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 1: of the first you know, significant chunk of the movie,

525
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 1: I thought that stock characters were used in a more

526
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 1: interesting way. That doesn't mean that they are in problems

527
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 1: with it, obviously, but in a more interesting way. And

528
00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:00,480
Speaker 1: then when we flash to the reality, I think that

529
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 1: stock characters are used really not very well and in

530
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 1: a way that there is no excusing because David Lynch

531
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 1: is like, and this is what Hollywood is really like,

532
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 1: and I'm going to kill every queer character, right, especially

533
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 1: because it creates this kind of weird paradox for me,

534
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 1: where again, the first two hours of the of the

535
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 1: movie are these very like kind of one dimensional characters,

536
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 1: these like archetypes that again are being used to a

537
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 1: certain effect based on what we can only imagine is

538
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 1: David Lynch's intention. We don't know because he won't tell us.

539
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 1: But which is fine, I mean whatever, I mean, it's

540
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 1: I think it's like interesting that he's like, oh, here's

541
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 1: my views on Hollywood while also still you know, very

542
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 1: much participating system, right anyways, continuous right, right, So yeah,

543
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 1: he's using, like you said, Jamie, these um kind of

544
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 1: stock characters, approaching them differently and and having a specific

545
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:08,240
Speaker 1: intent for them, which makes sense within the context of

546
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 1: the story. But then the last like thirty minutes, when

547
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:17,920
Speaker 1: you see the real versions of these characters, not like

548
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 1: a dream projection or like a you know, fantasy version,

549
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:28,240
Speaker 1: like an unconscious or subconscious fantasy version of these people.

550
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 1: Since you spend so little time with them, what little

551
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 1: you do see? Like you said, Jamie's like, don't really

552
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 1: like that. And then again, it's just so little development

553
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 1: there that it kind of reminds me of the conversation

554
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:48,920
Speaker 1: we had about Inception, where one of the women in

555
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:55,239
Speaker 1: the movie mal is a projection of Leonardo DiCaprio's subconscious

556
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:58,239
Speaker 1: or whatever. So it's like, how can you even you

557
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 1: know what, if this movie was made ten year later,

558
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 1: you know, Mary and Cotyard would have been punished in

559
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 1: this movie. Poor Mary coty Art. I mean, say what

560
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:09,840
Speaker 1: you will about her, such as she doesn't believe in

561
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:12,320
Speaker 1: the moon Landing, which I just think it's an interesting

562
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 1: fact about her, But they are killing her off in

563
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:20,400
Speaker 1: movies and treating her as like this ghost dead wife

564
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:24,239
Speaker 1: to this day. To this day, she was killed off

565
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 1: in a net just last year. I still haven't seen it. Look,

566
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 1: it's I can't stop thinking about it. I don't know

567
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 1: if it's good or if it's bad. But Marry and Cotyard,

568
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,239
Speaker 1: she she has an oscar and yet we're still dead

569
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:40,879
Speaker 1: wife in her it's not nice. But yeah, I I yeah.

570
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 1: The the use of tropes in some part to the

571
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:46,280
Speaker 1: movie I think makes narrative sense, and then um, towards

572
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 1: the end doesn't. I don't know. Yeah, yeah, So character

573
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:54,759
Speaker 1: development wise, it's a really tricky movie to analyze, right

574
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:58,839
Speaker 1: because of that, which is like by design, because it's

575
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 1: like I mean, in the in the Betty Rita dynamic,

576
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 1: you have very much this kind of like this fem

577
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 1: fatale and this a genue like you could you could

578
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:11,400
Speaker 1: paint that as a madonna whore to some extent and

579
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:14,399
Speaker 1: then feel like, oh, okay, I know how I feel

580
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:16,400
Speaker 1: about this. But then when you see the reveal, it's like,

581
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:19,759
Speaker 1: oh no, this is just you know, I don't think

582
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:22,719
Speaker 1: that it's even really reductive or unrealistic to think that

583
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 1: this is how an actor who is not in a

584
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 1: good mental state would try to interpret the world of

585
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:32,799
Speaker 1: any gender of just like because even and I think

586
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 1: people of all genders. In the first part of the movie,

587
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:40,880
Speaker 1: our stock characters, including like the incompetent hit man and

588
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:45,799
Speaker 1: like the detective and totally the psychic woman and just

589
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 1: all of this stuff that is very David Lynchy and

590
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:52,319
Speaker 1: but but contextualizes it in a way that some David

591
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 1: Lynch projects maybe don't but okay, So so in that way,

592
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:02,400
Speaker 1: it's it is hard to to analyze because in some ways,

593
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 1: I mean, it's so interesting because like Laura Elena Harring Harring,

594
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 1: Herring Harring, we don't get to know her character really

595
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:15,800
Speaker 1: at all, because we get to see two different perspectives

596
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 1: of her, Like we don't really see anyone in this

597
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:21,960
Speaker 1: movie even when we flash forward. My interpretation of it

598
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:25,439
Speaker 1: was like, even when we flash forward to Diane's quote

599
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:30,839
Speaker 1: unquote reality, we're still seeing things through her perspective, and

600
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:33,160
Speaker 1: so people are still acting in this very bizarre way

601
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 1: that I find it hard to believe people would actually

602
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:39,360
Speaker 1: be acting, like in like in that reveal towards the

603
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 1: end of the movie, that's like Adam, you know, justin

604
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 1: throws hair gel And and Camilla are going to get married,

605
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 1: and the way that they reveal that information is like

606
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:53,040
Speaker 1: they're like mocking her, which is probably not how that

607
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:56,840
Speaker 1: would have happened, but that's how she perceives it, and

608
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 1: like everything is through Diane's slash Betty's perspective throughout the

609
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:06,080
Speaker 1: entire movie, to the point where it's like kind of

610
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:09,439
Speaker 1: hard to attribute, like, oh, well, Camilla was doing this,

611
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:11,879
Speaker 1: because I think that a lot of and this gets

612
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:15,439
Speaker 1: into a lot of the issues or criticism at least,

613
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 1: are around how queerness is interpreted in this movie. Of

614
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 1: like how Camilla behaves at the end of the movie

615
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 1: is made to seem very antagonistic and to like rub

616
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:32,319
Speaker 1: Diane's face in this new relationship she has with a man.

617
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:36,879
Speaker 1: But as a viewer, I'm like, I'm not even necessarily

618
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:39,360
Speaker 1: sure that that's what the character was doing. That is

619
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:44,360
Speaker 1: how Diane interpreted that behavior because she was hurt that

620
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 1: she was left. But it's like, but you can also

621
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 1: if you interpret that behavior straightforward, then there's a lot

622
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:55,280
Speaker 1: of trophy problems like it's and we've talked about this, Caitlin,

623
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:59,160
Speaker 1: so like it keeps coming up because we keep like,

624
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 1: for some reason, recently, don we've been covering a lot

625
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:06,400
Speaker 1: of movies that have like fem fatale adjacent energy to it,

626
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 1: and this is another like more modern example of that

627
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 1: of and most of the time when fem fatals come

628
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 1: up in more modern movies, there are these bisexual tropes

629
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:23,719
Speaker 1: that come into the mix as a result, which is

630
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:29,320
Speaker 1: I think very much what is being put onto Camilla's

631
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:35,000
Speaker 1: character towards the end of the movie. V Do we

632
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:38,440
Speaker 1: want to get into that? Now? Let's get into it. Well,

633
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:41,160
Speaker 1: I heard you guys talk about it, and I think

634
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 1: it was your a simple favor episode. So I was

635
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:46,799
Speaker 1: when you were talking about that, I instantly started thinking,

636
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 1: thinking how you guys were talking about the it was

637
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 1: like dangerous bisexual character, which isn't something that I had

638
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:57,400
Speaker 1: ever thought about before, but it does apply here. And

639
00:39:57,440 --> 00:39:59,799
Speaker 1: then I guess I just wanted to add thinking back

640
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 1: to like thinking about things from Diane or Betty's perspective,

641
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:08,040
Speaker 1: taking it even a little bit of a step further.

642
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:12,280
Speaker 1: I guess I feel like that scene is almost through

643
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:15,239
Speaker 1: like the lens of when you're really high emotions and

644
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 1: remembering something even the way like people are sitting around

645
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:21,279
Speaker 1: the table sort of like and looking at her the

646
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 1: way that you would just remember something when you're really hurt,

647
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:26,799
Speaker 1: and like maybe it doesn't even totally make sense. You're

648
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 1: just like reading off of everyone's emotions instead of like

649
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:33,439
Speaker 1: their actual words or announcement. You're thinking about how someone

650
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:36,839
Speaker 1: you like was like cuddling and kissing and giggling with

651
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 1: someone else instead of like their actual what they're actually saying, right,

652
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:44,280
Speaker 1: And just like, yeah, that was kind of my read

653
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 1: of that whole elevated emotion scene. It's like everything happening

654
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:52,239
Speaker 1: in that scene is happening at Diane, which is not

655
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:55,920
Speaker 1: how the world works. But because like you're saying that

656
00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 1: she's at that elevated emotional state, she's really hurt, she

657
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:02,319
Speaker 1: feels betrayed, she's take and off guard because she goes

658
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 1: to that party. It's clear from her perspective, she goes

659
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 1: to that party as still very much a viable romantic

660
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:12,320
Speaker 1: prospect for Camilla, only to find out that Camilla is

661
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:17,360
Speaker 1: engaged and she had no idea Like that betrayal obviously

662
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 1: feels very personal to her, and I feel like that

663
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:23,840
Speaker 1: I didn't even dislike how that was played out in

664
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 1: like the way that scene plays out. It's just I mean, honestly,

665
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:30,600
Speaker 1: it's just hard to talk about David Lynch movies on

666
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:33,040
Speaker 1: the show, specifically because you can never be sure what's happening.

667
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:34,920
Speaker 1: But I didn't want to speak a little bit too.

668
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 1: I think what is kind of clear in the way

669
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 1: that and what's being telegraphed in that storyline. I read

670
00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:48,879
Speaker 1: a piece on website called Global Queer Cinema that does

671
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:52,239
Speaker 1: not credit its authors for some reason. So this is

672
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:56,440
Speaker 1: from Global Queer Cinema. But really I thought broke down

673
00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:01,799
Speaker 1: the way that bisexuality is portrayed through Camilla's character and

674
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 1: how I believe we are to think that Diane is

675
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 1: a lesbian, that she is only interested in women, and

676
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:11,719
Speaker 1: or at least that's what this piece is using. So

677
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:14,880
Speaker 1: I just wanted to read from that really quick quote,

678
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:16,640
Speaker 1: this is troubling and that the second half of the

679
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 1: story relies on the viewers preconceptions of the tragic lesbian

680
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:24,040
Speaker 1: in order to function. We see Diane as bereft, incapable

681
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:27,319
Speaker 1: of dealing with Camilla's defection to a man. This kind

682
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:31,719
Speaker 1: of quote unquote straightening behavior fulfills the viewers expectations that

683
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 1: the woman who is solely lesbian is someone to be

684
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:37,360
Speaker 1: pitied and ignored, while the bisexual woman is to be

685
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:42,399
Speaker 1: congratulated for quote unquote. Returning to heterosexuality, where we see

686
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:44,680
Speaker 1: the violent suicide of Diane and her rotting corpse. In

687
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:47,440
Speaker 1: the last image we have of Camilla, she is laughing, radiant,

688
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:50,319
Speaker 1: and apparently sexually fulfilled. She is not presented as a

689
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:54,359
Speaker 1: figure to provoke our discussed or scorn end quote, which

690
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 1: I feel like kind of breaks down how and again

691
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:02,920
Speaker 1: this is speaking solely to the back half of the movie,

692
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:06,320
Speaker 1: where I feel like the more insidious queer tropes are

693
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:09,759
Speaker 1: really poking out. But but yeah, especially I mean, as

694
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 1: it pertains to Camilla, she's a bisexual character, and she's

695
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:15,919
Speaker 1: very much portrayed and that way we were talking about

696
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:19,359
Speaker 1: on the simple favorite episode of She's portrayed a like

697
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:25,399
Speaker 1: bisexuality is conflated with being quote unquote like loose and

698
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:28,959
Speaker 1: like I love everybody and I'm not fair, I can't

699
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:33,359
Speaker 1: be faithful to anyone, and ultimately I probably belong with

700
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:37,719
Speaker 1: the opposite. And the fact that we never, I mean,

701
00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:41,640
Speaker 1: we barely have bisexual men on screen. It's almost always

702
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 1: the more Camilla storyline that is addressed, because women being

703
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:50,719
Speaker 1: intimate with other women is so eroticized by straight men

704
00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:53,279
Speaker 1: on screen, so it's just like there's just a lot

705
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:57,399
Speaker 1: going on. Well, Also, the female relationship seems to play

706
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:01,359
Speaker 1: more on like temptation and they do talk about um,

707
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:04,799
Speaker 1: well Betty doesn't, but they talk about like it being

708
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 1: wrong and like we should stop doing this, and like, yes,

709
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 1: it's because she's with Adam the director, but I also

710
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:14,480
Speaker 1: feel like it's because she's a woman. It's like taboo.

711
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:17,640
Speaker 1: That was Yeah, I totally agree with you. And this

712
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:20,719
Speaker 1: is something that again, this is this has just been

713
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:24,040
Speaker 1: coming up for us so much recently. We discussed this

714
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:28,560
Speaker 1: in our Basic Instinct episode was the idea of and

715
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:31,239
Speaker 1: and again it was disgusting. I just will link to

716
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:34,319
Speaker 1: this article in the description because I found it very

717
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:38,640
Speaker 1: illuminating and helpful from global queer cinema that kind of

718
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:45,000
Speaker 1: unpacks the idea of in these lesbian relationships in movies

719
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:48,480
Speaker 1: of like this era, this fifteen year stretch, you very

720
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:51,960
Speaker 1: often see like the single white female trope coming out

721
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 1: of like I'm in love with you, and being in

722
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:58,319
Speaker 1: love with you if we are both the same gender,

723
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:00,960
Speaker 1: means that I want to wear your in and it's

724
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:05,319
Speaker 1: scary and also murder you eventually and and kill you

725
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 1: like it's it's so intense that it's dangerous and abnormal

726
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 1: and to be avoided, you know, and it's like, oh, sure,

727
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:16,719
Speaker 1: it's eroticized, but it's never going to end well. And

728
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:20,319
Speaker 1: this movie plays on those same tropes. And I never

729
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:23,520
Speaker 1: had like language for like because we were talking about

730
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:25,840
Speaker 1: that in basic instinct of like what is this? This?

731
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 1: This comes up a lot, what the fund is this? Um?

732
00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:31,919
Speaker 1: This piece kind of attempts to unpack what the funk

733
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:34,279
Speaker 1: that is? So I just wanted to share this as well.

734
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 1: They use it as a concept called sameness. So the

735
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:43,520
Speaker 1: author says sameness in the sense which Sarah Ahmed uses

736
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:46,879
Speaker 1: in her study refers to a kind of homophobic preconception,

737
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:50,400
Speaker 1: in which quote, the very idea of women desiring women

738
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:54,080
Speaker 1: because of sameness relies on a fantasy that women are

739
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 1: all the same. This portrays a kind of social and

740
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:00,839
Speaker 1: sexual arrogance, as the women who choose each other are

741
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:03,400
Speaker 1: not capable of the kind of challenging diversity to be

742
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:07,040
Speaker 1: experienced in a heterosexual relationship. It also assumes that there

743
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:09,279
Speaker 1: are more differences between men and women than there are

744
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:14,600
Speaker 1: between two women or two men. This association between homosexuality

745
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 1: and sameness is crucial to the pathologizing Someone's got a

746
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:23,799
Speaker 1: master's degree, to the pathologizing of homosexuality as a perversion

747
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:28,120
Speaker 1: that leads the body astray. So I'm curious as to

748
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:30,520
Speaker 1: like what you both think about that and what our

749
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:33,359
Speaker 1: listeners think. But that made sense to me as like

750
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:38,759
Speaker 1: something that a straight male oversimplification would be, as like, well,

751
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:43,000
Speaker 1: women are attracted to women because they're both women, and

752
00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:45,480
Speaker 1: all women are the same to me, so they're probably

753
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:49,120
Speaker 1: the same to each other too, Like yeah, I mean,

754
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:53,799
Speaker 1: I definitely got the sense that David Lynch doesn't really

755
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:58,120
Speaker 1: nobody's talking about in terms of representing queer women on

756
00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:03,239
Speaker 1: screen and relationship. I mean, definitely, yeah, I I'd have

757
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:06,520
Speaker 1: to This is kind of the first time I'm I've

758
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:10,640
Speaker 1: gotten acquainted with this kind of idea of like sameness

759
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:17,840
Speaker 1: as same here, same sameness. Um, So yeah, I I'd

760
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:22,439
Speaker 1: be interested to examine that more closely. But I mean,

761
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:27,600
Speaker 1: just as far as like the general tropes being put forth,

762
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:30,600
Speaker 1: And I don't even know if some of the choices

763
00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:33,520
Speaker 1: that David Lynch is making as far as the queer

764
00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 1: characters in this movie are tropes. Maybe they are, but

765
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:42,040
Speaker 1: either way, it's definitely just like choices that are harmful.

766
00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:45,759
Speaker 1: We're a marginalized group because like, ultimately both of our

767
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:50,600
Speaker 1: queer female protagonists are brutally killed. Yes, by the end

768
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:54,480
Speaker 1: of the movie. Like again, because like if if you're portrayed,

769
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:58,840
Speaker 1: it's not unheard of in storytelling, for like a scorned

770
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:03,560
Speaker 1: lover to get jealous and vengeful and then murder someone.

771
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:08,000
Speaker 1: You probably see that a lot in hetero relationships, um,

772
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:12,760
Speaker 1: which but it's in the news. It's in the news.

773
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 1: But when you're portraying a particularly underrepresented group in media,

774
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:19,680
Speaker 1: you have to be very careful about the decisions you

775
00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:22,640
Speaker 1: make with regard to those characters. So when you have

776
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:26,160
Speaker 1: a character who is a queer woman at the end

777
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:30,480
Speaker 1: of the movie vengefully hiring a hitman to kill her

778
00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:36,239
Speaker 1: ex partner for reason, like for what, we don't totally understand.

779
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:38,160
Speaker 1: And I also think there's a conversation to be had

780
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:41,080
Speaker 1: about the way mental health is represented in the movie,

781
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 1: so you know, to suggest, oh, this queer woman is

782
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:52,000
Speaker 1: gonna freaking like have a breakdown and kill is there Ever,

783
00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:54,840
Speaker 1: I don't think that there's ever a specific mental illness

784
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:58,120
Speaker 1: attributed to what is happening, right, because that was that's

785
00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:04,080
Speaker 1: always like my main like cardinal sin of mental illness trips.

786
00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:06,160
Speaker 1: But I do agree with you, like there, yeah, I

787
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:11,839
Speaker 1: mean and just like conflating obsessive behavior with I mean

788
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:14,799
Speaker 1: specifically and again, it's like this comes up in a

789
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:19,880
Speaker 1: lot of movies in relationships with lesbians and bisexual women,

790
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:25,680
Speaker 1: and conflating obsessive and jealous behavior with a lesbian character

791
00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:31,320
Speaker 1: and promiscuous and unfaithful behavior with a bisexual character is

792
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:34,880
Speaker 1: something you see in movies all the time, and this movie,

793
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:39,880
Speaker 1: it like takes it to an eleven essentially. Well, my thoughts,

794
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:44,520
Speaker 1: like when you're talking about sameness, my first thought is

795
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:48,000
Speaker 1: literally and like everyone listening, you just have to imagine

796
00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:50,760
Speaker 1: I'm just showing boob hands. There's like all these shots

797
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:53,560
Speaker 1: are just like boobs, boops, and it's like comparing like

798
00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:57,759
Speaker 1: these are two women and like that's what they're into,

799
00:49:57,880 --> 00:50:00,160
Speaker 1: and that's like what I read from those more like

800
00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:03,200
Speaker 1: sexual scenes. There's two of them, like one the bat

801
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:06,640
Speaker 1: and won the couch in both realities, and it was

802
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:11,520
Speaker 1: just like very simplified to just like lesbians boobs. I

803
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:15,120
Speaker 1: agree that, like I think David Lynch sex scenes, I

804
00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:18,560
Speaker 1: don't love them. But when I was talking about same, sorry,

805
00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:20,960
Speaker 1: what what I was more referring to was the wig

806
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:23,520
Speaker 1: and the like yeah, oh yeah, I was gonna talk

807
00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:27,759
Speaker 1: that stuff too, so I I don't want to mischaracterize

808
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:30,239
Speaker 1: the piece that's specifically what that piece is talking about

809
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:34,799
Speaker 1: in that moment is like the single white female sequence

810
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:37,640
Speaker 1: I guess in that movie, which you can very much

811
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:41,520
Speaker 1: attribute to like dreamlike behavior, and I know in the

812
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:44,799
Speaker 1: dream analysis of this movie that that choice can be

813
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:46,960
Speaker 1: viewed very differently, but I do think that it's very

814
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:51,319
Speaker 1: valid in this interpretation as well, of like you are

815
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:54,000
Speaker 1: the same as me, and now I am attracted to you,

816
00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:58,239
Speaker 1: because it's not until Rita is wearing the wig and

817
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:00,279
Speaker 1: some it doesn't even want to take the wig off

818
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:03,840
Speaker 1: that they're able to have a sexual connection. So I

819
00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:07,200
Speaker 1: do think so sorry that that is like what the

820
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:12,120
Speaker 1: context in which that was coming up in it? Yeah, yeah, totally.

821
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:16,520
Speaker 1: I mean that it seems so like I guess, simplified

822
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 1: in a way that you're saying, like I had never

823
00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:21,279
Speaker 1: heard that theory before, but in that moment where she's

824
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:24,239
Speaker 1: like wearing that wig, I guess that like intention to

825
00:51:24,320 --> 00:51:27,960
Speaker 1: me seemed so obvious that it was like, yeah, that

826
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:32,319
Speaker 1: angel sort of I guess sameness, Yeah, because this didn't

827
00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:36,000
Speaker 1: come in the recap, but there's I guess maybe like

828
00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:39,920
Speaker 1: halfway through the movie, but after they go into Diane

829
00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:44,920
Speaker 1: Selwyn's apartment they find her dead body there. Rita kind

830
00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:48,160
Speaker 1: of has a breakdown, and then we see her starting

831
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:50,920
Speaker 1: to like cut her own hair off, and then we

832
00:51:51,080 --> 00:51:54,239
Speaker 1: see her now wearing a short blonde wig, which is

833
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:58,759
Speaker 1: pretty close to the same hairstyle that Betty has. Yeah,

834
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:01,320
Speaker 1: I think that they're supposed to be kind of doppel

835
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:06,880
Speaker 1: gangers in that moment, which didn't understand why that was happening,

836
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:09,680
Speaker 1: But okay, I'm glad you didn't because I also, God,

837
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:14,360
Speaker 1: David Lynch gives himself such a huge like margin of

838
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:16,520
Speaker 1: error for most of the movie because you can just

839
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:19,640
Speaker 1: be like, well, dreams, you know, sometimes they just have dreams.

840
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:23,480
Speaker 1: There's truth but no logic. Um. And see, I guess

841
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:25,319
Speaker 1: that's why I like him, because I'm okay to like

842
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:28,239
Speaker 1: go with the flow, right right, just be like I

843
00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:30,560
Speaker 1: don't know what's happening, because most of the movie can

844
00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:34,719
Speaker 1: just be like, well, dreams are wild sometimes, But in

845
00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:37,840
Speaker 1: that moment, yeah, it's it's I just thought that was

846
00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:40,799
Speaker 1: interesting because that is something that is presented as not

847
00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:43,960
Speaker 1: dream logic in a lot of movies of like My

848
00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:49,120
Speaker 1: first relationship with someone of the same gender. Was it

849
00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:51,960
Speaker 1: was very you know, obsessive to the point where it

850
00:52:52,040 --> 00:52:55,480
Speaker 1: was dangerous. That's a plot point, and basic instinct, that's

851
00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:59,640
Speaker 1: a plot point. And single white female like that, it's

852
00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:05,960
Speaker 1: just conflated with deviance like horror movie behavior. Um when

853
00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:10,560
Speaker 1: it's a relationship that didn't work out, which is statistically

854
00:53:10,640 --> 00:53:20,200
Speaker 1: all of them basically, right. Yeah, so that was not handled. Well, uh,

855
00:53:20,360 --> 00:53:23,000
Speaker 1: let's take another break and we will come right back.

856
00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:33,239
Speaker 1: We're back. The next thing I wanted to discuss is

857
00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:37,719
Speaker 1: so there are two sex scenes. The first one, as

858
00:53:37,719 --> 00:53:40,839
Speaker 1: far as I'm concerned, presents these two women in a

859
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:45,400
Speaker 1: very male gaze way in a scene that feels like

860
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:49,080
Speaker 1: it was plagiarized directly from a thirteen year old boys

861
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:54,040
Speaker 1: erotic fan fick, where like Betty is like, oh, Rita,

862
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:58,320
Speaker 1: you don't have to sleep on that uncomfortable couch, crawl

863
00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:01,040
Speaker 1: into bed with me and get good night's sleep with

864
00:54:01,160 --> 00:54:05,040
Speaker 1: me where you'll be so comfortable, and then very soft

865
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:08,640
Speaker 1: Korea and then we just like okay, And then she

866
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:12,360
Speaker 1: comes over and approaches the bed. She takes off her towel,

867
00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:16,120
Speaker 1: she's fully nude. She gets into the bed. Rita like

868
00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:19,839
Speaker 1: leans in to kiss Betty's forehead. Betty then kisses her

869
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:22,720
Speaker 1: on the lips, she takes off her top. They start

870
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:27,239
Speaker 1: having like a pretty steamy makeout and I'm just like,

871
00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:32,479
Speaker 1: who okay. First of all, look, I've had this dream

872
00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:35,719
Speaker 1: I went the first time I saw this movie, it

873
00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:38,920
Speaker 1: activated something in me where I was like, this is

874
00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:43,799
Speaker 1: one of the hottest sex scenes I've ever seen. Let's yeah,

875
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:46,160
Speaker 1: I mean, it can be, it can it can be.

876
00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:49,160
Speaker 1: It can be many different things. The male gaze misses

877
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:53,080
Speaker 1: a lot of the times, and then sometimes you're like, oh,

878
00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:58,359
Speaker 1: I've had this dream. But yeah, speaking to that, there

879
00:54:58,480 --> 00:55:01,560
Speaker 1: was a I mean, there's I'm so much written about

880
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:04,120
Speaker 1: this movie we couldn't possibly read it all. Sorry we're

881
00:55:04,120 --> 00:55:09,879
Speaker 1: not readers. But there was a reflection quote from Laura

882
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:14,759
Speaker 1: Elena Horring or Herring years later talking about the direction

883
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:19,520
Speaker 1: of that scene, where she says when David Lynch was

884
00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:22,240
Speaker 1: directed the scene, she said it was kind of cute

885
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:26,840
Speaker 1: because she said, quote one time, he went, don't be

886
00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:30,920
Speaker 1: afraid to touch each other's breasts. Now, like like even

887
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:34,759
Speaker 1: the description of how he was just like whatever, Like

888
00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:37,200
Speaker 1: her truth is her truth. It doesn't sound kind of

889
00:55:37,239 --> 00:55:39,920
Speaker 1: cute to me. But like just to give you an

890
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:42,600
Speaker 1: idea of like how male gay is. That scene was

891
00:55:42,600 --> 00:55:46,200
Speaker 1: was like a Midwestern guy being like, don't be afraid

892
00:55:46,239 --> 00:55:51,799
Speaker 1: to touch each other's breasts now? Like action, no, thank you,

893
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:55,440
Speaker 1: but but yeah, so that's a I don't know, I guess,

894
00:55:55,480 --> 00:55:58,719
Speaker 1: like curling away from my microphone. I know. Don you

895
00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:02,759
Speaker 1: visibly recall it when I said, and I'll say it

896
00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:05,000
Speaker 1: one more time just as the listener to feel hill.

897
00:56:05,960 --> 00:56:09,520
Speaker 1: Imagine the next time. Okay, for for those of us

898
00:56:09,560 --> 00:56:12,520
Speaker 1: with breasts, um, I mean ordering, you know, just nipples

899
00:56:12,520 --> 00:56:14,759
Speaker 1: in general. The next time you're having something done to

900
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:18,400
Speaker 1: your nipple, just think of David Lynch standing inches away

901
00:56:18,440 --> 00:56:21,640
Speaker 1: from you saying, don't be afraid to touch each other's

902
00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:27,279
Speaker 1: breasts now. I yikes. I have a similar tidbit that

903
00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:32,719
Speaker 1: I found after watching an interview with Naomi Watts and

904
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:39,040
Speaker 1: David Lynch are recounting their experience shooting Mulholland Drive. And

905
00:56:39,120 --> 00:56:44,239
Speaker 1: this was like a video from it was at least

906
00:56:44,280 --> 00:56:47,640
Speaker 1: published in I'm not sure if that's exactly what I

907
00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:48,960
Speaker 1: was from, but it was like, definitely there was a

908
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:51,040
Speaker 1: lot that came out from this movie last year because

909
00:56:51,040 --> 00:56:55,800
Speaker 1: it was like the anniversary wave of clickbait, etcetera. Totally.

910
00:56:55,840 --> 00:56:58,960
Speaker 1: So I think it's a pretty recent thing where Naomi

911
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:03,520
Speaker 1: Watts in the interview was talking about the masturbation scene,

912
00:57:03,560 --> 00:57:07,879
Speaker 1: because there's that scene where she's crying and masturbating at

913
00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:13,280
Speaker 1: the same time. She's blinking. It mean, she's she's she's jerking,

914
00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:19,680
Speaker 1: she's crying, and you're like a visibility. She's talking about

915
00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:24,240
Speaker 1: how that scene made her very uncomfortable to shoot, how

916
00:57:24,680 --> 00:57:27,520
Speaker 1: she had a stomach ache that day and went had to,

917
00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:30,280
Speaker 1: as she puts it, makes several trips to the bathroom

918
00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:33,720
Speaker 1: because she was so nervous about shooting this scene. How

919
00:57:33,760 --> 00:57:36,960
Speaker 1: it was generally like an unpleasant experience for her. But

920
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:41,520
Speaker 1: the way she's framing it is um interesting, where she's

921
00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:46,080
Speaker 1: describing how like, while the cameras were rolling, she was like, David,

922
00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:48,800
Speaker 1: I can't do this, I can't do this, and and

923
00:57:48,840 --> 00:57:51,440
Speaker 1: then she's like, oh, but the thing with David is

924
00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:55,200
Speaker 1: he just keeps pushing you. And she's talking as if

925
00:57:55,240 --> 00:57:58,200
Speaker 1: she's describing like, oh, what a good quality for a

926
00:57:58,240 --> 00:58:00,840
Speaker 1: director to have to, you know, push me to give

927
00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:04,520
Speaker 1: my best performance. But my read of that is he's

928
00:58:04,560 --> 00:58:08,360
Speaker 1: not respecting boundaries and insisting that his artistic vision be

929
00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:11,640
Speaker 1: carried out even if it makes his performers uncomfortable and

930
00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:15,520
Speaker 1: physically ill for a scene that can easily be cut

931
00:58:15,560 --> 00:58:18,160
Speaker 1: from the movie, and the movie would doesn't need to

932
00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:23,880
Speaker 1: be right, I this is like behavior that is attributed

933
00:58:23,960 --> 00:58:29,040
Speaker 1: to oh tour is very often and like whatever, I mean,

934
00:58:29,800 --> 00:58:32,240
Speaker 1: the cart blanche of it all means that sometimes you

935
00:58:32,280 --> 00:58:35,640
Speaker 1: get a very interesting movie, but it also means that you're,

936
00:58:35,640 --> 00:58:39,680
Speaker 1: you know, kind of everyone who's in this movie is

937
00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:42,720
Speaker 1: has to act, you know, and bow to the ego

938
00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:45,520
Speaker 1: of one person and hope it works out like it's

939
00:58:45,640 --> 00:58:49,680
Speaker 1: dictator logic and right, David Lynch doesn't sound like the

940
00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:52,280
Speaker 1: worst dictator of them all, But that is like a

941
00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:55,480
Speaker 1: funked up thing to like, I'm glad that Naomi Watts

942
00:58:55,520 --> 00:58:58,200
Speaker 1: looks back on it and isn't upset, Like whatever her

943
00:58:58,240 --> 00:59:02,640
Speaker 1: truth is is totally fine, But that sounds extremely unpleasant

944
00:59:02,680 --> 00:59:06,320
Speaker 1: and like not a good not a good yardstick to

945
00:59:06,360 --> 00:59:08,920
Speaker 1: be used for how It's also possible that she was

946
00:59:08,960 --> 00:59:11,880
Speaker 1: just framing it that way because David Lynch was literally

947
00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:14,320
Speaker 1: sitting right next to her. I was going to ask um, like,

948
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:16,800
Speaker 1: did you say they did this interview togegether she talked

949
00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:20,440
Speaker 1: about me, and they still work together too, So I

950
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:22,640
Speaker 1: know that there is like some sort of like if

951
00:59:22,640 --> 00:59:24,760
Speaker 1: you're still working with someone, you probably don't want to

952
00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:26,400
Speaker 1: talk to you about them while you're sitting right next

953
00:59:26,400 --> 00:59:28,960
Speaker 1: to them, right, especially if for a woman, and you

954
00:59:28,960 --> 00:59:33,400
Speaker 1: could be called that Hollywood power that they're talking about

955
00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:36,160
Speaker 1: in the film. That is okay, So that's let's get

956
00:59:36,200 --> 00:59:39,200
Speaker 1: into that, because I do back around, right, I do

957
00:59:39,280 --> 00:59:43,480
Speaker 1: think that like the Hollywood commentary being made here is

958
00:59:43,520 --> 00:59:47,200
Speaker 1: not invalid. You know, there's like a whole you know,

959
00:59:47,600 --> 00:59:49,600
Speaker 1: lens of this movie where you can look at it

960
00:59:49,680 --> 00:59:53,000
Speaker 1: as like, look how willing Hollywood is to you know,

961
00:59:53,040 --> 00:59:56,800
Speaker 1: take very talented and determined and motivated women and pit

962
00:59:56,920 --> 00:59:59,560
Speaker 1: them against each other, put them in a couple of movies,

963
00:59:59,600 --> 01:00:01,920
Speaker 1: and then to suppose of them like they never existed,

964
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:05,120
Speaker 1: which is something I totally agree with. And I think

965
01:00:05,120 --> 01:00:08,000
Speaker 1: it's like, I mean, there's obviously a very very traceable

966
01:00:08,080 --> 01:00:14,040
Speaker 1: history with how that works. But contrasted with stories about

967
01:00:14,120 --> 01:00:18,800
Speaker 1: how David Lynch treats his own actors who are women,

968
01:00:19,880 --> 01:00:23,840
Speaker 1: You're just like, well, it just becomes like I always

969
01:00:23,840 --> 01:00:26,240
Speaker 1: think of what is it like that onion headline that

970
01:00:26,280 --> 01:00:28,560
Speaker 1: it's like the worst person you know just made a

971
01:00:28,560 --> 01:00:33,600
Speaker 1: great point where it's like it seems like he he

972
01:00:33,680 --> 01:00:38,760
Speaker 1: has actively done this in his career, but also is

973
01:00:38,800 --> 01:00:41,560
Speaker 1: making a valid point. But it's like, well, but you're

974
01:00:41,600 --> 01:00:44,439
Speaker 1: not the person to hear it from. There's a there.

975
01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:48,120
Speaker 1: In eighteen there was a piece written on Vice which

976
01:00:48,160 --> 01:00:50,680
Speaker 1: is not how I want to begin a sentence ever

977
01:00:51,480 --> 01:00:56,000
Speaker 1: um to be clear, but it's about It's kind of

978
01:00:56,040 --> 01:00:59,000
Speaker 1: a review of book written about David Lynch that he

979
01:00:59,040 --> 01:01:02,560
Speaker 1: participated in that also spoke to a number of people

980
01:01:02,600 --> 01:01:04,360
Speaker 1: who were in his life. I think that this would

981
01:01:04,360 --> 01:01:07,640
Speaker 1: have been the same thing that the documentary offshoot that

982
01:01:07,680 --> 01:01:12,080
Speaker 1: I saw was about, but this piece specifically focuses on

983
01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:15,200
Speaker 1: how he related to the women in his life professionally

984
01:01:15,320 --> 01:01:19,360
Speaker 1: and personally. The writer of this piece is named Hannah Ewens.

985
01:01:19,760 --> 01:01:24,000
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Ewens Ewans s mcgarar. That's how you

986
01:01:24,040 --> 01:01:29,640
Speaker 1: call McGregor and his clones Ewens mcgar I can't say

987
01:01:29,680 --> 01:01:33,480
Speaker 1: that man's name. Wow. Okay, So David Lynch, and again

988
01:01:33,520 --> 01:01:37,919
Speaker 1: it's like personal life stuff is complicated. But David Lynch

989
01:01:38,200 --> 01:01:43,919
Speaker 1: is a filmmaker who is known for He certainly has

990
01:01:43,960 --> 01:01:47,400
Speaker 1: a lot of women who are protagonists in his work.

991
01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:50,920
Speaker 1: But usually if the woman is a lead character in

992
01:01:50,960 --> 01:01:54,000
Speaker 1: a David Lynch piece, she is under some sort of

993
01:01:54,040 --> 01:02:00,840
Speaker 1: extreme psychic distress. She is often assaulted or brutalize in

994
01:02:00,880 --> 01:02:04,720
Speaker 1: some way. She often dies. And so it is like

995
01:02:04,800 --> 01:02:06,800
Speaker 1: we were talking about at the beginning of the episode,

996
01:02:07,040 --> 01:02:10,480
Speaker 1: women are are very central to his work, but also

997
01:02:10,920 --> 01:02:12,480
Speaker 1: how are they being treated and how are they being

998
01:02:12,520 --> 01:02:15,760
Speaker 1: treated off screen? But there's there's a lot of stuff,

999
01:02:15,800 --> 01:02:18,200
Speaker 1: you know, in terms of like women who have been

1000
01:02:18,240 --> 01:02:20,080
Speaker 1: married to David Lynch, where it just sounds like they've

1001
01:02:20,120 --> 01:02:25,520
Speaker 1: been very neglected and you know, emotionally not treated very well,

1002
01:02:26,120 --> 01:02:29,720
Speaker 1: being told you know, basically by David Lynch upfront, like

1003
01:02:29,800 --> 01:02:32,120
Speaker 1: my life is my work and if you're not okay

1004
01:02:32,160 --> 01:02:33,960
Speaker 1: with that, then this marriage isn't going to work out.

1005
01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:36,680
Speaker 1: He's been married like five times, so it seems like

1006
01:02:36,720 --> 01:02:40,080
Speaker 1: statistically it doesn't work out. Whatever I don't that's not

1007
01:02:40,120 --> 01:02:43,440
Speaker 1: a value judgment. I what I'm saying is the separation

1008
01:02:43,480 --> 01:02:46,280
Speaker 1: of art life and work life. While it sounds good

1009
01:02:46,560 --> 01:02:51,440
Speaker 1: in the book sense, what that meant very often for

1010
01:02:51,560 --> 01:02:57,080
Speaker 1: David Lynch was that his art life involved becoming infatuated

1011
01:02:57,240 --> 01:03:04,120
Speaker 1: with his female stars and having affairs with his female stars,

1012
01:03:04,520 --> 01:03:06,880
Speaker 1: and so I think it is almost a Galaxy brand

1013
01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:10,520
Speaker 1: take on cheating on your wife to say, well, that's

1014
01:03:10,680 --> 01:03:14,560
Speaker 1: art life, so it doesn't count and home life, I'm

1015
01:03:14,600 --> 01:03:17,280
Speaker 1: your husband. And this seems to be a repeating pattern

1016
01:03:17,440 --> 01:03:21,720
Speaker 1: for him. It's not something that he's been especially taken

1017
01:03:21,720 --> 01:03:24,320
Speaker 1: to task with, it seems like with most of his

1018
01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:27,160
Speaker 1: ex wives. Even though this seems like it was a

1019
01:03:27,200 --> 01:03:30,000
Speaker 1: pattern for him, most of his ex wives were like,

1020
01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:33,840
Speaker 1: that's just what he was like, and so I divorced him.

1021
01:03:33,880 --> 01:03:38,160
Speaker 1: But I just do it just is it feels relevant

1022
01:03:38,200 --> 01:03:42,960
Speaker 1: to what we're talking about, And I can't exactly. I mean,

1023
01:03:43,040 --> 01:03:46,120
Speaker 1: maybe that's an overstep, but I don't really think so.

1024
01:03:46,320 --> 01:03:49,480
Speaker 1: Because when someone when when a man who really goes

1025
01:03:49,520 --> 01:03:51,360
Speaker 1: out of his way to include women in his work,

1026
01:03:51,640 --> 01:03:54,640
Speaker 1: you know, does that I do think it's valid to ask, well,

1027
01:03:54,680 --> 01:03:57,440
Speaker 1: how does this man treat the women in his own life?

1028
01:03:57,800 --> 01:04:00,400
Speaker 1: And I mean that's a conversation that's going on very

1029
01:04:00,480 --> 01:04:04,840
Speaker 1: much right now with Josh Weeden. Obviously very very different situations,

1030
01:04:05,520 --> 01:04:08,160
Speaker 1: but you know, men who are known for centering women

1031
01:04:08,200 --> 01:04:11,120
Speaker 1: in their work and then being praised for it. You

1032
01:04:11,120 --> 01:04:13,000
Speaker 1: always got to ask a follow up question there. You

1033
01:04:13,040 --> 01:04:16,320
Speaker 1: definitely have to examine. Yeah, there's lots to examine. And

1034
01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:18,680
Speaker 1: David Lynch, I mean, has said multiple times that like,

1035
01:04:19,200 --> 01:04:22,560
Speaker 1: women in psychic distress are of interest to him, like

1036
01:04:22,680 --> 01:04:26,840
Speaker 1: he says, uh in it's hard to say exactly what

1037
01:04:26,880 --> 01:04:29,320
Speaker 1: it is about Marilyn Monroe, but the woman in trouble

1038
01:04:29,400 --> 01:04:31,200
Speaker 1: Thing is a part of it. It's not just a

1039
01:04:31,240 --> 01:04:33,480
Speaker 1: woman in trouble Thing that pulls you in though, it's

1040
01:04:33,520 --> 01:04:36,880
Speaker 1: more that some women are really mysterious, which I think

1041
01:04:36,960 --> 01:04:39,160
Speaker 1: is like how he writes his movies, like he writes

1042
01:04:39,160 --> 01:04:41,680
Speaker 1: his movies, like he doesn't completely understand women, because I

1043
01:04:41,680 --> 01:04:44,560
Speaker 1: don't think that he does, you know, Like, and it's like,

1044
01:04:44,600 --> 01:04:47,640
Speaker 1: well then just like co write a movie with a

1045
01:04:47,640 --> 01:04:50,840
Speaker 1: woman I don't understand. And there's also a very vile

1046
01:04:50,880 --> 01:04:57,200
Speaker 1: anecdote about Isabella Rosalini, who was in Blue Velvet. There's

1047
01:04:57,240 --> 01:05:00,680
Speaker 1: a very famous scene in Blue Velvet in which the

1048
01:05:00,800 --> 01:05:07,200
Speaker 1: Isabella Rossolini character is raped, and Isabella Rosselini and David

1049
01:05:07,240 --> 01:05:11,080
Speaker 1: Lynch were also in a relationship for five years off

1050
01:05:11,280 --> 01:05:14,080
Speaker 1: of that movie. So make of that way you will.

1051
01:05:14,120 --> 01:05:18,200
Speaker 1: But in that scene where she's being assaulted in blue velvet.

1052
01:05:18,640 --> 01:05:23,240
Speaker 1: Isabella Rossolini later told someone in an interview that David

1053
01:05:23,320 --> 01:05:27,080
Speaker 1: Lynch was laughing throughout the entirety of shooting that scene,

1054
01:05:27,960 --> 01:05:30,720
Speaker 1: and she said, quote, I said, David, what is there

1055
01:05:30,760 --> 01:05:33,960
Speaker 1: to laugh at? Are we doing something ridiculous? I still

1056
01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:37,720
Speaker 1: to this day don't know why David was laughing. So

1057
01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:41,720
Speaker 1: there's just like, no, this is not the kind of

1058
01:05:42,120 --> 01:05:47,200
Speaker 1: writing queer relationships between women, I think, is what I'm saying. Absolutely,

1059
01:05:47,560 --> 01:05:50,360
Speaker 1: And then to bring it back to his tendency to

1060
01:05:50,880 --> 01:05:55,280
Speaker 1: brutalize women in his movies, there are a number of

1061
01:05:55,320 --> 01:05:59,640
Speaker 1: examples in this movie, aside from the two main characters

1062
01:05:59,680 --> 01:06:02,920
Speaker 1: bringing brutally killed by the end of the movie, although

1063
01:06:02,920 --> 01:06:04,960
Speaker 1: we don't I mean, at least we don't have to

1064
01:06:05,040 --> 01:06:09,280
Speaker 1: see the brutal death of Camilla. It's just implied that

1065
01:06:09,360 --> 01:06:12,280
Speaker 1: she was killed by the hitman. But we but I

1066
01:06:12,360 --> 01:06:14,800
Speaker 1: do think it's like, I think that that's really like

1067
01:06:14,920 --> 01:06:18,320
Speaker 1: we see the lesbian character die over and over and

1068
01:06:18,400 --> 01:06:22,120
Speaker 1: see images of her dead body a number of times. Um.

1069
01:06:22,160 --> 01:06:26,760
Speaker 1: There are other examples, such as the hitman who really

1070
01:06:26,840 --> 01:06:30,760
Speaker 1: fumbles the first hit that we see him do. Uh,

1071
01:06:30,800 --> 01:06:34,520
Speaker 1: there's a woman who he accidentally shoots in her butt,

1072
01:06:34,600 --> 01:06:38,680
Speaker 1: I think, and then he drags her around while she's screaming,

1073
01:06:39,040 --> 01:06:41,920
Speaker 1: and eventually he shoots her again and kills her. They

1074
01:06:42,320 --> 01:06:46,600
Speaker 1: drag out that poor character's death, and then there was

1075
01:06:46,640 --> 01:06:48,320
Speaker 1: a part where I was like, I'm glad that she's

1076
01:06:48,360 --> 01:06:52,080
Speaker 1: the one that like almost gets out. It almost feels

1077
01:06:52,120 --> 01:06:56,160
Speaker 1: like mean that she doesn't well, because like, so this

1078
01:06:56,200 --> 01:06:59,840
Speaker 1: scene is very totally inconsistent with all the other scenes,

1079
01:07:00,040 --> 01:07:04,560
Speaker 1: would say, because because it's comedic in a way that

1080
01:07:04,880 --> 01:07:07,200
Speaker 1: none of the rest of the movie is um And

1081
01:07:07,240 --> 01:07:10,160
Speaker 1: I think that part of where this movie is trying

1082
01:07:10,200 --> 01:07:13,200
Speaker 1: to derive comedy from is the treatment of her body

1083
01:07:13,320 --> 01:07:15,920
Speaker 1: because she is a fat woman, and the movie is,

1084
01:07:16,120 --> 01:07:19,400
Speaker 1: as far as my read is saying, like, look at

1085
01:07:19,480 --> 01:07:23,520
Speaker 1: this guy dragging around this fat woman as she screams

1086
01:07:23,560 --> 01:07:27,400
Speaker 1: and you know, pleads for help and stuff like that.

1087
01:07:27,000 --> 01:07:31,560
Speaker 1: I thought that too. And then we get the Justin

1088
01:07:31,720 --> 01:07:36,040
Speaker 1: Thorow's characters, his wife, who that character, the Adam the

1089
01:07:36,120 --> 01:07:41,000
Speaker 1: Director character shoves and roughs up after he finds out

1090
01:07:41,000 --> 01:07:43,120
Speaker 1: that she's been cheating on him, and I think she's

1091
01:07:43,160 --> 01:07:47,320
Speaker 1: also presented as being very shrewy and irrational, where the

1092
01:07:47,360 --> 01:07:49,680
Speaker 1: second he walks in on her cheating on him, she

1093
01:07:49,800 --> 01:07:55,000
Speaker 1: immediately blames him. She's like always yelling and lashing out

1094
01:07:55,000 --> 01:07:57,320
Speaker 1: at other people. And again it's like hard because it's

1095
01:07:57,360 --> 01:08:00,000
Speaker 1: like this is, for some reason a dream that Diane

1096
01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:03,280
Speaker 1: and is having. We don't know why. So it's like

1097
01:08:03,440 --> 01:08:06,160
Speaker 1: this isn't even a person that we're watching, but like

1098
01:08:06,800 --> 01:08:09,960
Speaker 1: the person presented to us I thought was like really

1099
01:08:10,040 --> 01:08:14,200
Speaker 1: leaning into some shrew trope. Absolutely, And then that character

1100
01:08:14,520 --> 01:08:17,160
Speaker 1: they're like these like big bad guys who are after

1101
01:08:18,040 --> 01:08:21,519
Speaker 1: Adam and they show up at her house after Adam

1102
01:08:21,640 --> 01:08:25,560
Speaker 1: is left. This woman jumps on this guy and just

1103
01:08:25,720 --> 01:08:29,240
Speaker 1: kind of telling him to leave, and then he pushes

1104
01:08:29,240 --> 01:08:33,560
Speaker 1: her and then punches her in the face. So there

1105
01:08:33,600 --> 01:08:37,479
Speaker 1: are a number of pretty tertiary characters who are women

1106
01:08:37,720 --> 01:08:40,080
Speaker 1: who you're not even sure why they're in the movie

1107
01:08:40,120 --> 01:08:43,400
Speaker 1: to begin with, because they're not really serving much of

1108
01:08:43,400 --> 01:08:46,960
Speaker 1: a narrative purpose. And then there seems like they're really

1109
01:08:46,960 --> 01:08:52,160
Speaker 1: only there to be like assaulted and brutalized. It's almost

1110
01:08:52,200 --> 01:08:56,519
Speaker 1: like early like nine hundreds ideas of like quote unquote

1111
01:08:56,560 --> 01:09:01,840
Speaker 1: mania and women and them being like uncontrollable, right, like

1112
01:09:01,880 --> 01:09:04,800
Speaker 1: they're so they yeah, a woman at a heightened emotional

1113
01:09:04,880 --> 01:09:09,200
Speaker 1: state is inherently irrational and like there's nothing that could

1114
01:09:09,240 --> 01:09:14,040
Speaker 1: have prompted this that would have been reasonable, like a

1115
01:09:14,040 --> 01:09:19,120
Speaker 1: lot of minor characters in that first large chunk of

1116
01:09:19,160 --> 01:09:22,000
Speaker 1: the movie who were supposed to in this read the

1117
01:09:22,160 --> 01:09:28,599
Speaker 1: popular read sorry is Diane's imagination, which I mean, we

1118
01:09:28,600 --> 01:09:31,680
Speaker 1: could really get into that. I kind of rather not,

1119
01:09:32,080 --> 01:09:34,200
Speaker 1: but but I do think it's interesting that if we're

1120
01:09:34,200 --> 01:09:38,280
Speaker 1: looking at the Hollywood criticism perspective of like this is

1121
01:09:38,320 --> 01:09:44,680
Speaker 1: the dream of an actor who either was very talented

1122
01:09:44,840 --> 01:09:47,960
Speaker 1: or certainly believed that she was very talented, because that

1123
01:09:48,040 --> 01:09:52,400
Speaker 1: whole scene of her audition, you know, reveals her to

1124
01:09:52,439 --> 01:09:55,600
Speaker 1: be like a very intuitively talented actress. Even in the

1125
01:09:55,960 --> 01:09:59,320
Speaker 1: in a room full of producers that are creepy and

1126
01:09:59,439 --> 01:10:02,840
Speaker 1: predator worry and like an acting partner who is actively

1127
01:10:02,920 --> 01:10:07,719
Speaker 1: hitting on her, she still manages to give this incredible performance. Again,

1128
01:10:07,760 --> 01:10:10,439
Speaker 1: we're seeing this through her perspective, but I I like,

1129
01:10:11,080 --> 01:10:14,439
Speaker 1: I thought it was interesting and more effective than other

1130
01:10:14,439 --> 01:10:17,760
Speaker 1: sections of the movie how that stuff was portrayed, because

1131
01:10:17,760 --> 01:10:21,160
Speaker 1: we're looking at this from Diane's perspective in retrospect, kind

1132
01:10:21,160 --> 01:10:24,680
Speaker 1: of rationalizing what's happened to her, and it's clear that

1133
01:10:24,840 --> 01:10:29,479
Speaker 1: like she was a talented actor who wasn't getting the

1134
01:10:29,520 --> 01:10:33,759
Speaker 1: parts that she wanted and because of various Hollywood bullshit.

1135
01:10:34,080 --> 01:10:36,800
Speaker 1: I think that a lot of that she blamed on Camilla.

1136
01:10:37,400 --> 01:10:40,760
Speaker 1: And in another way that it's like, oh, this bisexual

1137
01:10:40,800 --> 01:10:45,400
Speaker 1: woman is using her universal wiles to get what she wants,

1138
01:10:45,439 --> 01:10:47,880
Speaker 1: like she can't have a real emotional connection because she's

1139
01:10:47,920 --> 01:10:49,840
Speaker 1: just using sex to get what she wants, which is

1140
01:10:49,880 --> 01:10:55,519
Speaker 1: another like you know, bullshit construction that revolves around bisexual characters.

1141
01:10:56,040 --> 01:10:59,400
Speaker 1: I think it's more effective than other characters where especially

1142
01:10:59,400 --> 01:11:02,439
Speaker 1: in that audition and seen that at first, I was like, wow,

1143
01:11:02,479 --> 01:11:05,200
Speaker 1: this scene is so long, but but there is a

1144
01:11:05,240 --> 01:11:08,280
Speaker 1: lot going on there where the man who is much

1145
01:11:08,320 --> 01:11:11,720
Speaker 1: older than her in that scene is taking advantage of

1146
01:11:11,760 --> 01:11:16,639
Speaker 1: her character. And it's clearly like you know, unwelcome touching,

1147
01:11:17,200 --> 01:11:21,639
Speaker 1: kissing where it isn't written or warranted, and it's on

1148
01:11:22,280 --> 01:11:26,480
Speaker 1: Betty slash Diane because she is new to this industry

1149
01:11:26,600 --> 01:11:29,560
Speaker 1: to pretend that isn't happening and give the best performance

1150
01:11:29,560 --> 01:11:33,040
Speaker 1: she can't anyways, which which is a thing that happens,

1151
01:11:33,120 --> 01:11:36,439
Speaker 1: and it's like fucked up and not okay, but it

1152
01:11:36,439 --> 01:11:38,519
Speaker 1: but it was interesting to see that kind of like

1153
01:11:39,240 --> 01:11:42,160
Speaker 1: cogent ly seen on screen, where you know that Betty

1154
01:11:42,280 --> 01:11:45,160
Speaker 1: is not comfortable and that she's trying to navigate around

1155
01:11:45,200 --> 01:11:49,479
Speaker 1: all of these aggressions being put towards her and the

1156
01:11:49,560 --> 01:11:53,240
Speaker 1: fact that through her character's mind, there are other women

1157
01:11:53,240 --> 01:11:56,240
Speaker 1: in the room with her, and like women who are

1158
01:11:56,320 --> 01:11:59,799
Speaker 1: attention is drawn to them because in that scene, Betty's

1159
01:11:59,800 --> 01:12:02,479
Speaker 1: brought into the audition and immediately the first person you

1160
01:12:02,560 --> 01:12:07,040
Speaker 1: meet is like, here's this amazing casting agent. She's great.

1161
01:12:07,120 --> 01:12:09,639
Speaker 1: You know, she's going to work with you. And here's

1162
01:12:09,680 --> 01:12:13,360
Speaker 1: her assistant who's a woman as well. And at least

1163
01:12:13,400 --> 01:12:15,760
Speaker 1: for me, like in situations like that, when you see

1164
01:12:15,880 --> 01:12:18,439
Speaker 1: two other women in the room, you're sort of like, Okay,

1165
01:12:18,520 --> 01:12:20,640
Speaker 1: this is a safe situation for me because there are

1166
01:12:20,640 --> 01:12:24,599
Speaker 1: other you know, there's quote unquote there's allies present. Right.

1167
01:12:24,760 --> 01:12:25,920
Speaker 1: You don't want to be in a room full of

1168
01:12:25,960 --> 01:12:31,760
Speaker 1: old guys at any time, never ever, right. But in

1169
01:12:31,840 --> 01:12:36,479
Speaker 1: that scene, those women don't say anything when she's being

1170
01:12:36,560 --> 01:12:40,240
Speaker 1: and it's also implied that this happened to who we

1171
01:12:40,360 --> 01:12:43,840
Speaker 1: later learn as Camilla, and and that this is something

1172
01:12:43,880 --> 01:12:46,880
Speaker 1: that you know, possibly is something that they related with

1173
01:12:46,920 --> 01:12:49,160
Speaker 1: each other on is like being taken advantage of and

1174
01:12:49,240 --> 01:12:54,599
Speaker 1: being mistreated by executives of all genders, where it's like

1175
01:12:55,439 --> 01:12:57,320
Speaker 1: the straight guys who are going to try to grope

1176
01:12:57,360 --> 01:12:59,160
Speaker 1: you in the room and no one's gonna say anything.

1177
01:12:59,680 --> 01:13:02,280
Speaker 1: And then kind of like the more girl boss archetypes

1178
01:13:02,320 --> 01:13:05,400
Speaker 1: that we see through that manager character who is like, yeah,

1179
01:13:05,439 --> 01:13:10,040
Speaker 1: I know this isn't right, but we want money and success,

1180
01:13:10,120 --> 01:13:12,360
Speaker 1: don't we, So we're not going to say anything. And

1181
01:13:12,400 --> 01:13:17,439
Speaker 1: so that stuff I thought was like a little more effective. Yeah,

1182
01:13:17,520 --> 01:13:21,679
Speaker 1: although there's a similar scene where the Justin Threw character.

1183
01:13:22,320 --> 01:13:26,160
Speaker 1: This is towards the end when Rita is now Camilla

1184
01:13:26,720 --> 01:13:30,519
Speaker 1: and Betty is now Diane and they're on set in

1185
01:13:30,560 --> 01:13:34,360
Speaker 1: the movie that they're both in together, and Justin Threw

1186
01:13:34,760 --> 01:13:37,800
Speaker 1: is like directing one of his actors to be like, no,

1187
01:13:37,960 --> 01:13:39,600
Speaker 1: this is how this kiss is going to go. And

1188
01:13:39,640 --> 01:13:43,400
Speaker 1: then he like gets in the car with Camilla and

1189
01:13:43,400 --> 01:13:46,080
Speaker 1: he's like, yeah, do it like this. That is not

1190
01:13:46,360 --> 01:13:49,559
Speaker 1: how directing a movie you should. You don't like get

1191
01:13:49,600 --> 01:13:51,840
Speaker 1: into the scene with the actor and be like and

1192
01:13:51,960 --> 01:13:54,679
Speaker 1: this is how you kiss the woman in the scene.

1193
01:13:54,800 --> 01:13:57,960
Speaker 1: And then because that that kind of blew my mind though,

1194
01:13:57,960 --> 01:14:01,599
Speaker 1: because it's like David Lynch, who at the time of

1195
01:14:01,640 --> 01:14:06,599
Speaker 1: this movie had a reputation for courting and falling in

1196
01:14:06,640 --> 01:14:09,800
Speaker 1: love with the stars of his own movies for a

1197
01:14:09,880 --> 01:14:13,200
Speaker 1: decade and a half, put this commentary in where it's

1198
01:14:13,240 --> 01:14:16,880
Speaker 1: like the two Spider Man pointing at each other. I'm like,

1199
01:14:17,280 --> 01:14:19,320
Speaker 1: what's your fucking point. It seems like this is something

1200
01:14:19,360 --> 01:14:22,760
Speaker 1: that you actively try to do and have maybe even

1201
01:14:22,800 --> 01:14:25,760
Speaker 1: been successful with that you're presenting it as a criticism,

1202
01:14:25,920 --> 01:14:28,559
Speaker 1: and also I feel like implying that Camilla is an

1203
01:14:28,600 --> 01:14:32,000
Speaker 1: active participant in that and she's like enjoying, and that

1204
01:14:32,080 --> 01:14:37,240
Speaker 1: there's no coercion implied. Yeah, I read that. Like, while

1205
01:14:37,320 --> 01:14:41,600
Speaker 1: the audition scene definitely is very creepy, especially in the

1206
01:14:41,600 --> 01:14:46,479
Speaker 1: way that the actor acting opposite Betty and the way

1207
01:14:46,479 --> 01:14:48,479
Speaker 1: that the director is like, yeah, do what everyone whatever,

1208
01:14:49,360 --> 01:14:53,080
Speaker 1: that worked a little more effectively is commentary, or at

1209
01:14:53,120 --> 01:14:57,320
Speaker 1: least I felt the like creepiness and coercion of it all,

1210
01:14:57,360 --> 01:14:59,840
Speaker 1: but self aware at least. But then to turn around

1211
01:14:59,840 --> 01:15:03,040
Speaker 1: and have a very similar thing happen later in the

1212
01:15:03,120 --> 01:15:06,520
Speaker 1: movie in a way that doesn't seem to provide any commentary,

1213
01:15:06,600 --> 01:15:10,320
Speaker 1: and it is again reflective of David Lynch's own behavior.

1214
01:15:11,600 --> 01:15:14,960
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, then that kind of nullifies the other things,

1215
01:15:14,960 --> 01:15:17,840
Speaker 1: like well, don't bring a bisexual woman into the into

1216
01:15:17,880 --> 01:15:21,360
Speaker 1: the picture, because then all of a sudden it's bad

1217
01:15:21,479 --> 01:15:26,880
Speaker 1: and it's somehow she is complicit in this evil plan. Like, yeah,

1218
01:15:26,920 --> 01:15:29,280
Speaker 1: that's a great point, and I don't know the fact

1219
01:15:29,320 --> 01:15:32,000
Speaker 1: that it reflects on being I'm just like, so, what

1220
01:15:32,240 --> 01:15:37,320
Speaker 1: is the point? What are you saying, David? So one

1221
01:15:37,360 --> 01:15:40,240
Speaker 1: thing that's interesting about all that is, I guess like

1222
01:15:40,760 --> 01:15:43,479
Speaker 1: when they released the DVD, it came with a card

1223
01:15:43,720 --> 01:15:47,280
Speaker 1: of like ten unlocking clues to the film to figure

1224
01:15:47,320 --> 01:15:50,639
Speaker 1: it out, and one of them, number eight is did

1225
01:15:50,640 --> 01:15:54,040
Speaker 1: talent alone help Camilla? And I feel like that's like

1226
01:15:55,120 --> 01:15:59,840
Speaker 1: revealing to all of this, like intentionally interesting or not?

1227
01:16:00,240 --> 01:16:03,920
Speaker 1: Like is that almost like how do you interpret that? Yeah,

1228
01:16:03,960 --> 01:16:07,240
Speaker 1: like accidentally revealing like oh, I don't actually just cast

1229
01:16:07,320 --> 01:16:11,040
Speaker 1: my actress is based on their talent alone. Well, because

1230
01:16:11,040 --> 01:16:14,479
Speaker 1: that's another scene that you see that I assumed was commentary,

1231
01:16:14,680 --> 01:16:16,880
Speaker 1: and I think was to an extent towards the beginning

1232
01:16:16,880 --> 01:16:19,759
Speaker 1: of the movie, where they're doing the casting for Adams

1233
01:16:19,800 --> 01:16:22,920
Speaker 1: movie and they don't watch any videos. They just look

1234
01:16:22,960 --> 01:16:25,840
Speaker 1: at pictures they don't like, and you know, that these

1235
01:16:26,040 --> 01:16:29,160
Speaker 1: these actresses on the other end, because we see Betty

1236
01:16:29,439 --> 01:16:33,160
Speaker 1: and Rita and again this is three Diane's perspective, but like,

1237
01:16:33,680 --> 01:16:37,040
Speaker 1: you know, Betty is really preparing for this audition and

1238
01:16:37,080 --> 01:16:40,360
Speaker 1: gives a great audition, but the only discussion that's had

1239
01:16:40,640 --> 01:16:45,559
Speaker 1: is pictures. So it's I thought, like again, like that's

1240
01:16:45,600 --> 01:16:48,519
Speaker 1: more effective for me. But then when you take into account,

1241
01:16:48,800 --> 01:16:50,640
Speaker 1: like you're saying down like that seems to be what

1242
01:16:50,760 --> 01:16:55,040
Speaker 1: David Lynch had done in the past, Like it's just

1243
01:16:55,160 --> 01:16:57,680
Speaker 1: so it's I mean, like I guess, I don't mean

1244
01:16:57,720 --> 01:16:59,920
Speaker 1: there's no like Hart Evans that he's you know, doing

1245
01:17:00,040 --> 01:17:03,640
Speaker 1: that exact thing. But to see like, I don't know,

1246
01:17:03,720 --> 01:17:06,560
Speaker 1: the self awareness of it all of Like, yeah, actresses

1247
01:17:06,680 --> 01:17:10,320
Speaker 1: work obviously really hard to get the parts that they get,

1248
01:17:10,479 --> 01:17:13,599
Speaker 1: and the reality that this movie is presenting is like

1249
01:17:14,680 --> 01:17:17,719
Speaker 1: these women can work so hard and it doesn't even

1250
01:17:17,840 --> 01:17:21,280
Speaker 1: matter because it's just a room full of guys doing

1251
01:17:21,360 --> 01:17:25,920
Speaker 1: some sort of unrelated dick measuring contest and there's a

1252
01:17:25,960 --> 01:17:28,400
Speaker 1: bunch of pictures and the choice has already kind of

1253
01:17:28,400 --> 01:17:31,240
Speaker 1: been made before you're even in the room, and so

1254
01:17:31,439 --> 01:17:34,360
Speaker 1: like it doesn't matter if you're talented, which is clearly

1255
01:17:34,400 --> 01:17:37,120
Speaker 1: how Diane feels at the end of the movie, and

1256
01:17:37,160 --> 01:17:40,080
Speaker 1: I think that those messages, like the fact that it's

1257
01:17:40,120 --> 01:17:42,559
Speaker 1: like the reality presented at the end of the movie

1258
01:17:42,600 --> 01:17:46,800
Speaker 1: is that she is both professional rivals with Camilla and

1259
01:17:46,920 --> 01:17:50,160
Speaker 1: is in love with her, gets kind of messy with

1260
01:17:50,240 --> 01:17:52,880
Speaker 1: the commentary the movie is making, because sometimes I feel

1261
01:17:52,880 --> 01:17:56,040
Speaker 1: like it's trying to make some Hollywood commentary that ends

1262
01:17:56,120 --> 01:17:59,599
Speaker 1: up being homophobic because they're attributing both of those things

1263
01:17:59,600 --> 01:18:03,800
Speaker 1: at the same Like, I don't know messy messy well,

1264
01:18:03,800 --> 01:18:06,360
Speaker 1: and I don't even think that, Like, I mean, I

1265
01:18:06,400 --> 01:18:08,519
Speaker 1: don't know for sure, but I don't even feel like

1266
01:18:08,560 --> 01:18:10,880
Speaker 1: that's what he was even talking about or whoever wrote

1267
01:18:10,920 --> 01:18:14,400
Speaker 1: that question on their like clue card, I feel like

1268
01:18:14,400 --> 01:18:17,320
Speaker 1: they were just talking about like the Cowboy said to

1269
01:18:17,439 --> 01:18:20,680
Speaker 1: cast her. I don't even know that they like we're

1270
01:18:20,760 --> 01:18:22,960
Speaker 1: intending for the answer to be all the things that

1271
01:18:23,040 --> 01:18:27,599
Speaker 1: we just discussed, but I feel like that's the real answer, right.

1272
01:18:27,640 --> 01:18:30,360
Speaker 1: But Yeah, with a movie like this, where there's so

1273
01:18:30,520 --> 01:18:35,599
Speaker 1: much ambiguity and so much symbolism that's open to so

1274
01:18:35,640 --> 01:18:40,360
Speaker 1: many different interpretations and all these metaphors that depending on

1275
01:18:40,600 --> 01:18:43,320
Speaker 1: who you are and how your brain works and what

1276
01:18:43,400 --> 01:18:47,800
Speaker 1: you notice, you're gonna interpret things differently. So with this

1277
01:18:47,840 --> 01:18:51,200
Speaker 1: type of movie, it's so hard to know what, if anything,

1278
01:18:51,800 --> 01:18:56,240
Speaker 1: was the intent as far as like social commentary. And

1279
01:18:56,280 --> 01:19:02,760
Speaker 1: because David Lynch refuses to fill in the gaps, it's like, Okay, well,

1280
01:19:02,800 --> 01:19:05,680
Speaker 1: I don't think that that's an artistic failure. Part it

1281
01:19:05,840 --> 01:19:10,439
Speaker 1: just makes our job harder and right, Yeah, so either way,

1282
01:19:11,160 --> 01:19:15,400
Speaker 1: I'm confused by everything in this movie. Um fun fact,

1283
01:19:16,280 --> 01:19:20,240
Speaker 1: the movie was originally developed and shot as a pilot

1284
01:19:20,400 --> 01:19:25,080
Speaker 1: for ABC, but ABC watched it and didn't end up

1285
01:19:25,120 --> 01:19:29,280
Speaker 1: wanting to pick up the pilot. So David Lynch basically

1286
01:19:29,320 --> 01:19:32,880
Speaker 1: just like wrote and shot and added a few more

1287
01:19:32,920 --> 01:19:35,880
Speaker 1: scenes and turned it into the future film that we

1288
01:19:36,479 --> 01:19:40,880
Speaker 1: now know and for me not love but I have

1289
01:19:41,040 --> 01:19:45,320
Speaker 1: seen it, have seen multiple times and been dragged across

1290
01:19:45,360 --> 01:19:48,439
Speaker 1: the internet. I feel like that's where all those like

1291
01:19:48,560 --> 01:19:50,799
Speaker 1: random scenes come in or I just have to assume

1292
01:19:50,880 --> 01:19:53,439
Speaker 1: they do right and maybe they were supposed to pay

1293
01:19:53,479 --> 01:19:56,240
Speaker 1: off in some way later, Like yes, I think that

1294
01:19:56,479 --> 01:19:59,000
Speaker 1: was like part of what Davidlynch was going for. He's like, yeah,

1295
01:19:59,000 --> 01:20:01,080
Speaker 1: I'm setting up all these arts that are gonna like

1296
01:20:01,160 --> 01:20:03,839
Speaker 1: come back later, similar to what happens in twin Peaks,

1297
01:20:03,880 --> 01:20:06,719
Speaker 1: but they just never really do. I mean that gives

1298
01:20:06,720 --> 01:20:09,640
Speaker 1: me the smallest bit of peace. I mean, ultimately, I

1299
01:20:09,720 --> 01:20:12,960
Speaker 1: just like this makes me want to go back and

1300
01:20:13,000 --> 01:20:16,280
Speaker 1: Rewatch because I hadn't watched it since it came out. Rewatch,

1301
01:20:16,400 --> 01:20:20,240
Speaker 1: that documentary about David Lynch, because this book seems to

1302
01:20:20,280 --> 01:20:24,280
Speaker 1: reveal that like, basically just like the cost of what

1303
01:20:24,400 --> 01:20:27,639
Speaker 1: he you know, says is his art centric lifestyle took

1304
01:20:27,720 --> 01:20:30,120
Speaker 1: on the women in his life, where it sounds like

1305
01:20:30,120 --> 01:20:34,320
Speaker 1: many of his wives and children were like deceived and

1306
01:20:34,400 --> 01:20:37,600
Speaker 1: mistreated in the service of his art. And then on

1307
01:20:37,640 --> 01:20:40,559
Speaker 1: the other end of it, the women who were involved

1308
01:20:40,600 --> 01:20:45,200
Speaker 1: in his art were also mistreated in the interest of

1309
01:20:45,320 --> 01:20:48,559
Speaker 1: the art. And so it comes up as I don't know,

1310
01:20:48,760 --> 01:20:51,120
Speaker 1: and I just like, I know that this conversation has

1311
01:20:51,120 --> 01:20:53,439
Speaker 1: been had around his work, but he is such a

1312
01:20:53,520 --> 01:20:57,080
Speaker 1: beloved person that it's like and you see him in

1313
01:20:57,080 --> 01:20:59,320
Speaker 1: interviews and he's so sweet and blah blah blah. But

1314
01:20:59,360 --> 01:21:02,280
Speaker 1: it's like, but this is you know, this is on

1315
01:21:02,600 --> 01:21:05,439
Speaker 1: paper as having happened, and it it almost feels like

1316
01:21:06,120 --> 01:21:09,480
Speaker 1: a little as someone trying to like participate in understanding

1317
01:21:09,479 --> 01:21:12,679
Speaker 1: who this person is. It feels a little gas Lady

1318
01:21:13,000 --> 01:21:16,559
Speaker 1: media wise, because it's like Naomi Watts is like, yeah,

1319
01:21:16,640 --> 01:21:20,120
Speaker 1: he may be perform under duress, ha ha, and Elizabeth

1320
01:21:20,200 --> 01:21:23,479
Speaker 1: Rosselini is like, yeah, he was laughing during the most

1321
01:21:23,520 --> 01:21:26,360
Speaker 1: traumatic scene in the movie. Isn't that interesting because he's

1322
01:21:26,400 --> 01:21:28,679
Speaker 1: such I feel like there is like that eccentric guy

1323
01:21:28,840 --> 01:21:31,599
Speaker 1: personality that it lets you get away with a lot

1324
01:21:31,600 --> 01:21:34,920
Speaker 1: of things that it's like that does actually doesn't sound

1325
01:21:35,200 --> 01:21:38,679
Speaker 1: like an adorable or appealing quality at all. Like no,

1326
01:21:38,760 --> 01:21:40,880
Speaker 1: so I mean again, speaking to his personal life, I

1327
01:21:40,880 --> 01:21:43,520
Speaker 1: don't want to bring it to too too into this discussion,

1328
01:21:44,080 --> 01:21:48,280
Speaker 1: but for someone who focuses on the psychological effects that

1329
01:21:48,400 --> 01:21:50,920
Speaker 1: life takes on women, it seems like his life has

1330
01:21:50,960 --> 01:21:53,120
Speaker 1: taken a lot of psychological effects on the women in

1331
01:21:53,200 --> 01:21:57,599
Speaker 1: his life. And that's not and and so that's UM.

1332
01:21:57,640 --> 01:22:01,719
Speaker 1: I'm on a journey. It's hard back to the movie

1333
01:22:01,720 --> 01:22:05,400
Speaker 1: originally being UM. But it was originally shot as a

1334
01:22:05,439 --> 01:22:09,000
Speaker 1: pilot and some reasons that, you know, the people at

1335
01:22:09,280 --> 01:22:13,400
Speaker 1: ABC said that they didn't want it after all, they

1336
01:22:13,479 --> 01:22:17,680
Speaker 1: thought there like UM. They didn't like it because of

1337
01:22:17,720 --> 01:22:22,280
Speaker 1: the non linear storyline. They didn't like it because Anne

1338
01:22:22,280 --> 01:22:26,160
Speaker 1: Miller's character smokes cigarettes, and I guess they didn't want

1339
01:22:26,160 --> 01:22:30,120
Speaker 1: that on TV. Um dare. Okay, they didn't like it

1340
01:22:30,240 --> 01:22:36,439
Speaker 1: because the ages of Naomi Watts and Laura Harring, who

1341
01:22:36,680 --> 01:22:41,680
Speaker 1: they considered to be too old. Oh my god, yet

1342
01:22:41,840 --> 01:22:48,080
Speaker 1: they're like thirty. And finally, ABC opposed to the close

1343
01:22:48,200 --> 01:22:53,320
Speaker 1: frame shot of dog feces in one scene. Okay, so

1344
01:22:53,400 --> 01:22:57,439
Speaker 1: that's just that. Now that's prudish put poop on screen.

1345
01:22:58,200 --> 01:23:02,280
Speaker 1: I don't even remember that POI race in movies. More poop, poop.

1346
01:23:02,280 --> 01:23:05,080
Speaker 1: Poop is a part of life. There needs to be

1347
01:23:05,120 --> 01:23:09,880
Speaker 1: more movies where someone's like, I'm so sorry I have

1348
01:23:10,040 --> 01:23:13,400
Speaker 1: to and they leave the scene like the next time.

1349
01:23:13,439 --> 01:23:16,240
Speaker 1: If you're a writer and you are like, I've had

1350
01:23:16,240 --> 01:23:18,320
Speaker 1: this problem many times where it's like, oh my gosh,

1351
01:23:18,520 --> 01:23:20,559
Speaker 1: I need someone to leave this scene, but I can't

1352
01:23:20,560 --> 01:23:23,040
Speaker 1: figure out how to get them out of here. There's

1353
01:23:23,080 --> 01:23:27,160
Speaker 1: your answer, and people will see themselves in that character

1354
01:23:27,240 --> 01:23:28,760
Speaker 1: in that moment to be like, oh my god, guys,

1355
01:23:28,800 --> 01:23:31,200
Speaker 1: I have to poop so bad, I have to leave

1356
01:23:31,640 --> 01:23:35,000
Speaker 1: and then boom. It does happen in Bridesmaids. Oh that

1357
01:23:35,120 --> 01:23:40,480
Speaker 1: is true, So it happens. It's happened once in cinematic history,

1358
01:23:40,680 --> 01:23:43,880
Speaker 1: and happened recently on the show where the She's Got

1359
01:23:43,920 --> 01:23:46,040
Speaker 1: to have an episode where I was like, I have

1360
01:23:46,120 --> 01:23:48,880
Speaker 1: to poop, we have to end this episode. Caitlyn was

1361
01:23:48,960 --> 01:23:52,360
Speaker 1: literally like slouched in her chair and then finally revealed

1362
01:23:52,439 --> 01:23:57,800
Speaker 1: that it was because she had to poop. Man Our

1363
01:23:57,840 --> 01:24:03,799
Speaker 1: Lives are a movie, there a podcast? Right, does anyone

1364
01:24:03,840 --> 01:24:07,600
Speaker 1: have anything else they'd like to discuss? I'm good, I

1365
01:24:07,600 --> 01:24:11,240
Speaker 1: don't think so. Same all right, Well, well, in that case,

1366
01:24:11,800 --> 01:24:15,280
Speaker 1: this movie very much passes the Backtel test. That's not

1367
01:24:15,400 --> 01:24:18,240
Speaker 1: a problem that this movie has even without your theory

1368
01:24:18,560 --> 01:24:22,280
Speaker 1: of like, well, they're all projections of the same woman's

1369
01:24:22,320 --> 01:24:24,960
Speaker 1: mind and they're all talking to each other. Therefore, even

1370
01:24:25,040 --> 01:24:28,920
Speaker 1: if even without that, women are talking for a good

1371
01:24:28,960 --> 01:24:31,360
Speaker 1: portion of the movie. And it's not even like I

1372
01:24:31,360 --> 01:24:34,719
Speaker 1: feel like sometimes there's a hack of like, well, women

1373
01:24:34,760 --> 01:24:38,000
Speaker 1: are talking. They're still talking about romantic relationships, but it's

1374
01:24:38,040 --> 01:24:40,640
Speaker 1: with other women. But but there's so much disgusted in

1375
01:24:40,640 --> 01:24:44,480
Speaker 1: this movie between women where sometimes it is about a relationship,

1376
01:24:44,960 --> 01:24:49,599
Speaker 1: sometimes it is about who am I, Sometimes it's about

1377
01:24:50,200 --> 01:24:52,240
Speaker 1: you know, it happens between so many characters. We haven't

1378
01:24:52,280 --> 01:24:56,160
Speaker 1: even really talked that much about Louise, the psychic character

1379
01:24:56,280 --> 01:24:59,439
Speaker 1: who comes in very distressed. We don't talk about the

1380
01:24:59,439 --> 01:25:03,200
Speaker 1: conversation between Betty and her aunt. There is a conversation

1381
01:25:03,240 --> 01:25:06,519
Speaker 1: between Betty and this metaphorical character that we didn't have

1382
01:25:06,560 --> 01:25:08,080
Speaker 1: time to get to that I don't want to talk about,

1383
01:25:08,160 --> 01:25:11,960
Speaker 1: named Irene. At the beginning of the movie. There's a

1384
01:25:12,000 --> 01:25:15,680
Speaker 1: ton of conversations between Betty and Rita, and also Diane

1385
01:25:15,800 --> 01:25:21,880
Speaker 1: and Camilla. Betty and Coco have conversations. Is another character

1386
01:25:21,920 --> 01:25:23,920
Speaker 1: that I didn't have time to bring up. Here's in

1387
01:25:23,960 --> 01:25:26,880
Speaker 1: both timelines and passes. The metel tests in both timelines

1388
01:25:27,600 --> 01:25:30,960
Speaker 1: like women are talking plenty. Yeah, that's not the issue,

1389
01:25:31,120 --> 01:25:33,040
Speaker 1: and that's why we say, you know, it's a it's

1390
01:25:33,040 --> 01:25:37,880
Speaker 1: a starting point for discussion exactly. Yeah. But an amazing

1391
01:25:38,160 --> 01:25:41,760
Speaker 1: metric by which flows analyzed movies is of course our

1392
01:25:41,840 --> 01:25:45,200
Speaker 1: nipple scale, where we rate the movie on a scale

1393
01:25:45,200 --> 01:25:48,320
Speaker 1: of zero to five nipples based on examining it through

1394
01:25:48,760 --> 01:25:54,639
Speaker 1: an intersectional feminist lens, just between the toxic and harmful

1395
01:25:54,680 --> 01:25:58,800
Speaker 1: tropes that are perpetuated as far as the queer characters

1396
01:25:58,840 --> 01:26:03,360
Speaker 1: go violence against women that seems to be played for

1397
01:26:03,439 --> 01:26:07,519
Speaker 1: laughs several times in the movie. The weird way in

1398
01:26:07,520 --> 01:26:12,000
Speaker 1: which mental health is represented, where the movie is suggesting

1399
01:26:12,640 --> 01:26:15,760
Speaker 1: if you get dumped you're going to have a complete

1400
01:26:15,840 --> 01:26:19,960
Speaker 1: breakdown that will lead you to murder. Yeah, usually it

1401
01:26:19,960 --> 01:26:26,200
Speaker 1: will just lead you to sleeping a lot. Yes, Based

1402
01:26:26,200 --> 01:26:34,280
Speaker 1: on that, I will give the movie. Um, what do

1403
01:26:34,320 --> 01:26:39,439
Speaker 1: you even give a movie that makes so little narrative sense? Again,

1404
01:26:39,520 --> 01:26:43,200
Speaker 1: he got you again, he got you again. I'm going

1405
01:26:43,240 --> 01:26:46,680
Speaker 1: to give it like one. I guess. Yeah, I was

1406
01:26:46,760 --> 01:26:50,479
Speaker 1: leaning towards like one nipple, just for like, I guess,

1407
01:26:50,560 --> 01:26:55,920
Speaker 1: good job centering women in your movie when you're a

1408
01:26:55,920 --> 01:26:59,439
Speaker 1: male autour, but also you have the responsibility to do

1409
01:26:59,479 --> 01:27:05,960
Speaker 1: it well, and as far as I'm concerned, he didn't.

1410
01:27:06,080 --> 01:27:10,880
Speaker 1: So one nipple And I will wait, what's the part

1411
01:27:10,920 --> 01:27:16,080
Speaker 1: that I liked? I'll give it to the untouched plate

1412
01:27:16,160 --> 01:27:20,160
Speaker 1: of breakfast food that the guy who has a nightmare

1413
01:27:20,200 --> 01:27:24,639
Speaker 1: about the person with a scary face leaves at what

1414
01:27:24,680 --> 01:27:31,600
Speaker 1: was it called Twinkies Diner or Winkies Diner on Sunset Boulevard,

1415
01:27:31,640 --> 01:27:33,439
Speaker 1: which I don't know if that's a real thing or not,

1416
01:27:33,600 --> 01:27:35,760
Speaker 1: but maybe it was at the time. It could have been.

1417
01:27:35,800 --> 01:27:38,640
Speaker 1: Did they go to other real l A food places right,

1418
01:27:38,800 --> 01:27:41,720
Speaker 1: like Pinks hot dogs and stuff. Um, don't even get

1419
01:27:41,720 --> 01:27:45,080
Speaker 1: me started. I don't even get my stars hot dogs,

1420
01:27:45,280 --> 01:27:48,280
Speaker 1: I know, but at what cost? Fuck pinks? Anyways, Sorry,

1421
01:27:48,479 --> 01:27:53,920
Speaker 1: finished your thoughts? Oh so feminist icon plate of breakfast food.

1422
01:27:54,200 --> 01:27:59,120
Speaker 1: That's who gets my one nipple? Amazing? Um, I'm between

1423
01:27:59,160 --> 01:28:01,960
Speaker 1: a one and at one point five, whoever, whichever of

1424
01:28:02,040 --> 01:28:06,639
Speaker 1: you Brave Missionaries updates are Wikipedia page. I guess I'll

1425
01:28:06,680 --> 01:28:09,120
Speaker 1: leave that to you. I'm between a one and one

1426
01:28:09,160 --> 01:28:12,120
Speaker 1: point five. I can't really decide. Maybe I'll just say

1427
01:28:12,160 --> 01:28:15,160
Speaker 1: at one point to five. Again, it is like a

1428
01:28:15,240 --> 01:28:19,280
Speaker 1: very complicated thing where I do feel like there is

1429
01:28:19,320 --> 01:28:22,519
Speaker 1: a necessary given. I mean, you've just even given the

1430
01:28:22,520 --> 01:28:24,360
Speaker 1: conversation we've had today, I do think that there is

1431
01:28:24,360 --> 01:28:29,320
Speaker 1: a necessary there's a need to reassess behavior versus intent

1432
01:28:29,640 --> 01:28:32,760
Speaker 1: in David Lynch's work, because it feels like we've had

1433
01:28:33,200 --> 01:28:35,880
Speaker 1: and again, it's like every conversation is very individual. But

1434
01:28:35,880 --> 01:28:38,719
Speaker 1: there's been a lot of Melo tourists who have been

1435
01:28:38,760 --> 01:28:42,360
Speaker 1: seen to be very pro woman simply for including women

1436
01:28:42,400 --> 01:28:45,080
Speaker 1: with motivations and their work, and then you look at

1437
01:28:45,120 --> 01:28:47,559
Speaker 1: their personal behavior and think, oh wait a second, maybe

1438
01:28:47,640 --> 01:28:51,920
Speaker 1: this was actually not the feminist king that I ascribed

1439
01:28:52,360 --> 01:28:54,960
Speaker 1: to him. I'm not saying that that's exactly what's going

1440
01:28:55,000 --> 01:28:57,479
Speaker 1: on here because I just don't know enough information, but

1441
01:28:57,479 --> 01:28:59,679
Speaker 1: just based on this discussion, it seems like this should

1442
01:28:59,680 --> 01:29:04,400
Speaker 1: be of something that is worth discussing more right, Yeah,

1443
01:29:04,800 --> 01:29:08,479
Speaker 1: I think that this movie is hard because I do

1444
01:29:08,720 --> 01:29:13,720
Speaker 1: like dedicating an entire movie to a woman processing the

1445
01:29:13,800 --> 01:29:16,920
Speaker 1: events of her own life and processing her own mistakes,

1446
01:29:17,080 --> 01:29:20,439
Speaker 1: which on its surface is technically what this movie is,

1447
01:29:21,000 --> 01:29:23,960
Speaker 1: and taking into account that. You know, there's a lot

1448
01:29:23,960 --> 01:29:28,479
Speaker 1: of commentary about show business that I thought was pretty valid,

1449
01:29:28,600 --> 01:29:30,960
Speaker 1: and I think that it's supposed to be implied in

1450
01:29:30,960 --> 01:29:34,320
Speaker 1: the movie that the way that her industry treated her

1451
01:29:34,479 --> 01:29:40,920
Speaker 1: influenced her own behavior and drove her towards horrific behavior.

1452
01:29:41,400 --> 01:29:43,920
Speaker 1: Like there are things this movie I think. I think

1453
01:29:43,920 --> 01:29:46,479
Speaker 1: that this movie has it's heart in the right place

1454
01:29:46,560 --> 01:29:49,920
Speaker 1: with and then there's things that it very clearly doesn't like.

1455
01:29:50,120 --> 01:29:53,120
Speaker 1: The most generous interpretation is that David Lynch's way out

1456
01:29:53,160 --> 01:29:56,320
Speaker 1: of his depth and shouldn't be writing about this kind

1457
01:29:56,360 --> 01:30:00,599
Speaker 1: of stuff without consulting with other people or including other

1458
01:30:00,640 --> 01:30:03,200
Speaker 1: people as co writers. And I mean that's an otur problem.

1459
01:30:03,200 --> 01:30:05,880
Speaker 1: We come up against all the time. It's like, if

1460
01:30:06,080 --> 01:30:08,120
Speaker 1: if you have the ego that it just has to

1461
01:30:08,160 --> 01:30:11,120
Speaker 1: be you, then write something that you know you're what

1462
01:30:11,200 --> 01:30:15,439
Speaker 1: you're talking about it. Or if you want to expand

1463
01:30:15,520 --> 01:30:18,960
Speaker 1: outside of yourself, which I think you know, all writers should.

1464
01:30:19,400 --> 01:30:22,000
Speaker 1: I'm not faulting him for wanting to have women as

1465
01:30:22,000 --> 01:30:24,719
Speaker 1: his protagonist, but it's like, well, then talk to women,

1466
01:30:25,200 --> 01:30:28,080
Speaker 1: like that's just how that works. Otherwise you're going to

1467
01:30:28,160 --> 01:30:30,360
Speaker 1: come up with some weird ship and it's going to

1468
01:30:30,439 --> 01:30:32,639
Speaker 1: influence people, and then twenty years are going to pass

1469
01:30:32,680 --> 01:30:35,040
Speaker 1: and then we're gonna have to record a podcast about it. Like,

1470
01:30:35,439 --> 01:30:37,960
Speaker 1: no one wants to be doing this, so just do

1471
01:30:38,040 --> 01:30:42,000
Speaker 1: it right. Um. Yeah, a lot of bisexual tropes that

1472
01:30:42,280 --> 01:30:44,800
Speaker 1: we've talked about a lot recently that I think just

1473
01:30:45,000 --> 01:30:47,680
Speaker 1: hold true and are still just a shitty here. A

1474
01:30:47,720 --> 01:30:51,240
Speaker 1: lot of tropes about lesbians that are very much the same.

1475
01:30:52,120 --> 01:30:55,080
Speaker 1: And it's a very white movie. I mean, it's like

1476
01:30:55,080 --> 01:30:57,760
Speaker 1: an like the whole world, the whole expanded universe of

1477
01:30:58,120 --> 01:31:01,639
Speaker 1: David Lynch is very white, and not in a way

1478
01:31:01,720 --> 01:31:04,640
Speaker 1: that implies any commentary. It just implies that this is

1479
01:31:04,920 --> 01:31:08,360
Speaker 1: these are the stories he's interested in telling. So there

1480
01:31:08,520 --> 01:31:14,080
Speaker 1: it's just it's one, two five. I'm gonna I wanted

1481
01:31:14,160 --> 01:31:16,920
Speaker 1: to give it to the hot Dog, but I can't

1482
01:31:17,080 --> 01:31:20,519
Speaker 1: because it's from Pinks and and listeners of the Bechtel cast.

1483
01:31:20,800 --> 01:31:23,000
Speaker 1: Oh just wait till my hot Dog book is on

1484
01:31:23,040 --> 01:31:25,920
Speaker 1: pre sale. You're not going to hear the end of it.

1485
01:31:25,920 --> 01:31:28,200
Speaker 1: It's not yet. It comes out next year. But there's

1486
01:31:28,200 --> 01:31:31,360
Speaker 1: a whole section on Pinks because guess what, they love

1487
01:31:31,600 --> 01:31:34,040
Speaker 1: the Los Angeles Police Department. They love it so much.

1488
01:31:34,080 --> 01:31:38,120
Speaker 1: They love cops and they hate street vendors even though

1489
01:31:38,479 --> 01:31:41,080
Speaker 1: they were once a street vendor themselves. Does it make sense, No,

1490
01:31:41,200 --> 01:31:43,519
Speaker 1: it doesn't. The story of hot Dogs is a story

1491
01:31:43,520 --> 01:31:49,120
Speaker 1: of class oppression and colonialism and animal abuse. So I

1492
01:31:49,160 --> 01:31:51,599
Speaker 1: can't give it to the hot Dog. So I'm gonna

1493
01:31:51,600 --> 01:31:55,160
Speaker 1: give them all to Louise because she was right. Who

1494
01:31:55,240 --> 01:31:59,040
Speaker 1: is Louise again? She's the psychic who comes to the door.

1495
01:31:59,160 --> 01:32:00,680
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't even know the purpose of that

1496
01:32:00,800 --> 01:32:05,960
Speaker 1: character was. Even she shows up at the door, she's like,

1497
01:32:06,000 --> 01:32:09,400
Speaker 1: something's not right, and it's like, well, yeah, obviously, but

1498
01:32:09,520 --> 01:32:12,240
Speaker 1: that never comes back. So um, I'm gonna give it

1499
01:32:12,280 --> 01:32:14,400
Speaker 1: to her. Good for her. She was right and some

1500
01:32:14,600 --> 01:32:18,680
Speaker 1: something wasn't right in that house. She's correct, Don What

1501
01:32:18,760 --> 01:32:21,679
Speaker 1: about you? Um? Well, I have to say that this

1502
01:32:21,800 --> 01:32:25,160
Speaker 1: conversation has been very enlightening for me, and if you

1503
01:32:25,160 --> 01:32:27,760
Speaker 1: would have asked me this question at the beginning, I

1504
01:32:27,760 --> 01:32:30,960
Speaker 1: would have had a different answer than i'll have now. However,

1505
01:32:31,240 --> 01:32:34,439
Speaker 1: my number of nipples, which is still higher than yours,

1506
01:32:34,840 --> 01:32:42,360
Speaker 1: but um, I have learned through this conversation more about

1507
01:32:43,120 --> 01:32:49,160
Speaker 1: the female and dressed trope and the perception on queer

1508
01:32:49,400 --> 01:32:54,559
Speaker 1: women specifically, and that has really tainted, um my number

1509
01:32:54,560 --> 01:33:00,960
Speaker 1: of nipples. So I do still appreciate the amount of

1510
01:33:01,080 --> 01:33:04,439
Speaker 1: female characters and the amount that they talk to each other,

1511
01:33:04,960 --> 01:33:09,280
Speaker 1: and that the film is shown through a female perspective,

1512
01:33:09,360 --> 01:33:12,760
Speaker 1: so not just that there's female characters that men interact with.

1513
01:33:13,479 --> 01:33:20,280
Speaker 1: So I not confidently would say three nipples, Hell yeah,

1514
01:33:20,320 --> 01:33:21,960
Speaker 1: who are you going to give them to? So? I

1515
01:33:22,000 --> 01:33:24,600
Speaker 1: live in Salt Lake City, Utah, and I've been a

1516
01:33:24,600 --> 01:33:28,760
Speaker 1: really big fan of big hats since I've lived here.

1517
01:33:28,920 --> 01:33:31,679
Speaker 1: So I just have to give it to the cowboy character.

1518
01:33:31,840 --> 01:33:34,960
Speaker 1: He's weird and mysterious and like my kind of guy,

1519
01:33:35,280 --> 01:33:38,479
Speaker 1: and he's wearing a big hat. He's a metaphor baby

1520
01:33:38,640 --> 01:33:42,800
Speaker 1: for what I don't know. I don't care. I kind

1521
01:33:42,800 --> 01:33:44,479
Speaker 1: of want to give my nipples to the to the

1522
01:33:44,520 --> 01:33:50,840
Speaker 1: metaphorical swamp lady, I kind of because I'm pretty. I

1523
01:33:50,880 --> 01:33:54,080
Speaker 1: was like, she's a metaphor for like whatever the side

1524
01:33:54,080 --> 01:33:59,160
Speaker 1: of you you don't want to confront failure, past mistakes.

1525
01:33:59,200 --> 01:34:02,360
Speaker 1: She's just all all this ship and then she's behind

1526
01:34:02,360 --> 01:34:06,559
Speaker 1: a diner like like, I know that lady in a way.

1527
01:34:07,080 --> 01:34:09,120
Speaker 1: You know, for the part of you you don't want

1528
01:34:09,160 --> 01:34:11,960
Speaker 1: to confront that other men have nightmares about for some

1529
01:34:12,400 --> 01:34:17,080
Speaker 1: which you know probably is true. Yeah. Fair, Well, there

1530
01:34:17,120 --> 01:34:21,000
Speaker 1: you have it, everybody. M Holland, Drive, Pepe and Poo

1531
01:34:21,040 --> 01:34:24,280
Speaker 1: poo don. Thank you so much for joining us and

1532
01:34:24,320 --> 01:34:28,680
Speaker 1: for being here. Thank you. What would you like to

1533
01:34:29,240 --> 01:34:32,400
Speaker 1: plug and where can people follow you on social media?

1534
01:34:32,479 --> 01:34:36,919
Speaker 1: Tell us about your podcast. Yeah, I have a podcast

1535
01:34:36,960 --> 01:34:42,120
Speaker 1: interviewing filmmakers. I'm especially interested in talking with female filmmakers

1536
01:34:42,120 --> 01:34:46,800
Speaker 1: that are making films that really are inspiring broader conversations

1537
01:34:47,040 --> 01:34:51,439
Speaker 1: and topics. Um So I'll be doing some interviews for

1538
01:34:51,560 --> 01:34:54,439
Speaker 1: Sundance and slam Dance coming up. So you can check

1539
01:34:54,479 --> 01:34:59,559
Speaker 1: out Poe Real podcast on all whatever podcast platform you're

1540
01:34:59,560 --> 01:35:02,040
Speaker 1: listening to you right now, and then I'm on Instagram

1541
01:35:02,080 --> 01:35:05,000
Speaker 1: at for real pod and then I'll also be doing

1542
01:35:05,240 --> 01:35:09,880
Speaker 1: some writing with Sundayance filmmakers for Cinema Fem magazine. You

1543
01:35:09,920 --> 01:35:14,559
Speaker 1: can find that online as well, and that's full real

1544
01:35:14,840 --> 01:35:19,040
Speaker 1: f A U x R e E L correct because

1545
01:35:19,040 --> 01:35:23,240
Speaker 1: there could be multiple spellings. Yeah, I just want the

1546
01:35:23,240 --> 01:35:25,360
Speaker 1: people to be able to find you, you know, thank you.

1547
01:35:25,800 --> 01:35:29,960
Speaker 1: The people have to know that. People must know. And

1548
01:35:30,720 --> 01:35:35,240
Speaker 1: you can follow us at bectel Cast on Twitter and Instagram.

1549
01:35:35,360 --> 01:35:39,880
Speaker 1: You can subscribe to our Matreon at patreon dot com

1550
01:35:39,920 --> 01:35:43,479
Speaker 1: slash pecktel Cast, where you get too bonus episodes every

1551
01:35:43,680 --> 01:35:48,280
Speaker 1: month plus access to the nearly one hundred or maybe

1552
01:35:48,439 --> 01:35:56,000
Speaker 1: even over one episodes on the Matreon exclusively and that

1553
01:35:56,200 --> 01:35:59,439
Speaker 1: is five dollars a month. And then if you want

1554
01:35:59,439 --> 01:36:02,439
Speaker 1: some merger, she can always go over to t public

1555
01:36:02,479 --> 01:36:04,559
Speaker 1: dot com slash the battel cost for all of your

1556
01:36:04,560 --> 01:36:11,240
Speaker 1: merchandizing needs. And with that, um, let's not wake up gang,

1557
01:36:11,280 --> 01:36:14,840
Speaker 1: because if we do, the elderly couple is going to

1558
01:36:14,880 --> 01:36:17,599
Speaker 1: attack us and we will have to die so murder

1559
01:36:17,680 --> 01:36:21,000
Speaker 1: each other. So let's just let's just stay asleep. Dreaming

1560
01:36:21,080 --> 01:36:24,720
Speaker 1: is better, you know, sounds great? Night night night, night,

1561
01:36:24,920 --> 01:36:25,680
Speaker 1: tonight