1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:03,480 Speaker 1: The Michael Barry Show. Welcome to the Bonus Podcast. I 2 00:00:03,520 --> 00:00:09,000 Speaker 1: have spoken many times about the sort of death of truth, 3 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:13,119 Speaker 1: the end of truth as we know it. Of trust, 4 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:18,119 Speaker 1: the idea that you could send your kid to school 5 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:23,120 Speaker 1: and trust that your values would be taught to your children. 6 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: We already know that that can't be taken for granted. 7 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:31,640 Speaker 1: It's not to say that every school is perverting your child, 8 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 1: but plenty are the idea that you could trust your 9 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 1: doctor when you asked a medical question, and that they 10 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:42,239 Speaker 1: would not be beholden to Big Pharma or on some 11 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:46,479 Speaker 1: sort of commission that would drive their decision making. The 12 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 1: idea that you could trust I don't know CNN, you 13 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 1: know this reliable news source, and RFK Junior tells us 14 00:00:54,760 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 1: this week in a hearing that Anderson Cooper's twenty dollars 15 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:04,039 Speaker 1: a year is probably eighty percent paid for by big Pharma. Well, 16 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:07,319 Speaker 1: whoever's paying the bills is calling the shots. That's how 17 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:17,479 Speaker 1: this works. So trust has been eroded, and that's unfortunate. 18 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 1: I think that that makes it harder to get a 19 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:25,360 Speaker 1: conviction on a bad guy in a criminal case. Where 20 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 1: we've lost trust in the FBI under Jim Comey, I 21 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:34,960 Speaker 1: think we're less likely to believe somebody who claims they 22 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 1: were the victim of racism, which does occur, but we're 23 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 1: less likely to believe them because of all the false 24 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 1: claims of Black Lives Matter and Antifa and their ilk. 25 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 1: The death of trust, the death of respect. But at 26 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 1: some point we have to open our eyes. We've been 27 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 1: told that we have to trust the experts on everything 28 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 1: from climate chain COVID. Well, we've seen how that worked 29 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 1: out for mister COVID, I mean for mister science. Anthony 30 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: Fauci he said, don't wear masks, They're dumb. You just 31 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 1: get that schmuts all over you. And then he said, oh, 32 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 1: do wear masks, and then wear them when you walk 33 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 1: into a restaurant, but take them off when you reach 34 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 1: your table. It was also silly, and people allowed themselves 35 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:27,359 Speaker 1: to get yanked around. 36 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:28,919 Speaker 2: Well. 37 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 1: Thomas Soul wrote a book about these so called experts, 38 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 1: called Intellectuals and Society years ago. When he wrote the book, 39 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:40,239 Speaker 1: he sat down with Peter Robinson at the Hoover Institute. 40 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 1: And if you haven't figured out already, it is a goal, 41 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:48,520 Speaker 1: a stated clear goal of our show to amplify the 42 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 1: writings and words of Thomas soul. We think he's a genius. 43 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 1: He sits down with Peter Robinson at the Hoover Institute 44 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:00,360 Speaker 1: and they discuss why so many disasters of our time 45 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 1: have been committed by experts or intellectuals. You may remember 46 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 1: FDR's brain Trust, which, according to later studies, prolonged the 47 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:14,079 Speaker 1: Depression by several years. The Great Depression didn't need to 48 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: be the whiz kids at the Pentagon under Macnamara who 49 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:22,640 Speaker 1: managed to mess up the Vietnam War, drag us into it, 50 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 1: and then drag it out, destroying a generation's hopes and dreams. 51 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: You can run through an impressive list of things or 52 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 1: disasters brought to you by people with very high IQs. 53 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 1: That was the basis of intellectuals and society. 54 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 2: Give this a listen. 55 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 3: Welcome to Uncommon Knowledge. I'm Peter Robinson. Be sure to 56 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 3: follow us on Twitter at twitter dot com forward slash 57 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 3: unc Knowledge. That's twitter dot com forward slash unk Knowledge. 58 00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 3: Doctor Thomas Soule has taught economics, intellectual history, and social 59 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 3: polers at such institutions as Cornell, UCLA and Amherst. The 60 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 3: author of more than a dozen books, Doctor Sowell is 61 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 3: now a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution his newest work, 62 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:18,159 Speaker 3: Intellectuals and Society. Tom will begin with a quotation then 63 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:21,719 Speaker 3: candidate Barack Obama in July two thousand and eight. Quote 64 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:27,840 Speaker 3: It's like these guys Republicans take pride in being ignorant. 65 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 3: They should go talk to some experts and actually make 66 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 3: a difference. Close quote. 67 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:39,040 Speaker 2: Well, talking to experts does make a difference. Many of 68 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:43,360 Speaker 2: the great disasters of our time have been committed by experts. 69 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 2: You may remember FDR's Brain Trust, which according to later studies, 70 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 2: prolonged the depression by several years, The Whiz Kids, and 71 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 2: the Pentagon under McNamara, who managed to mess up the 72 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:01,360 Speaker 2: Vietnam War. You can run through an list of things 73 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 2: of disasters brought about by people with very high IQs. 74 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 3: All right, segment one, the species of the intellectual. When 75 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 3: you refer to intellectuals in Intellectuals and Society, whom do 76 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 3: you mean? 77 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:18,840 Speaker 2: I mean people whose in products are ideas. There are 78 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:23,360 Speaker 2: other people with great intelligence whose end products are things 79 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:24,720 Speaker 2: like the salt vaccine. 80 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 3: A research scientist is not necessarily an intellectually, that's rights. 81 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 3: An engineer isn't necessarily an intellectual. 82 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:35,920 Speaker 2: That's right, because the engineer is judged by the end 83 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:39,479 Speaker 2: product of which is not simply ideas. If he builds 84 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 2: a building that collapses, it doesn't matter how brilliant his 85 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 2: idea was, or he's ruined. Conversely, if an intellectual who's 86 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:53,159 Speaker 2: brilliant has an idea for rearranging society and that ends 87 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 2: in disaster, he pays no price at all. 88 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:59,040 Speaker 3: I see. Let me quote Intellectuals in Society quote. The 89 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:02,839 Speaker 3: fatal miss step of intellectuals is assuming that superior ability 90 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 3: within a particular realm can be generalized to superior wisdom 91 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 3: or morality overall. Chess grand masters, musical prodigies and others 92 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:15,360 Speaker 3: who are as remarkable within their respective specialties as intellectuals 93 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:21,400 Speaker 3: within theirs seldom make that mistake. Explain that why would it? Well, 94 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:24,480 Speaker 3: let's take an example. Noam Chomsky, whom you write about 95 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 3: in Intellectuals in Society, whose work in linguistics in the 96 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 3: first place, I can't understand it, But as best I 97 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 3: can tell, everyone who exactly, everyone who understands his technical 98 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 3: work within the field, within his discipline of linguistics, considers 99 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:39,479 Speaker 3: him one of the great figures of the twentieth century, 100 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 3: and his work in politics absurdity. 101 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 2: The same could be said of Bertrand Russell and his 102 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:51,720 Speaker 2: landmark works on mathematics, and other people on other fields. 103 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:55,719 Speaker 2: But they step outside their fields. And when you step 104 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 2: outside your level of specialty, sometimes that's like stepping off 105 00:06:59,880 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 2: a cliff. 106 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 3: And why is it that intellectuals, that is to say, 107 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 3: people whose end product is ideas should succumb to that 108 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 3: temptation more than, to use your example, a chess grand master. 109 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 2: Because a chess grand master can be world famous for 110 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 2: doing absolutely nothing more than winning chess tournaments and making displays, 111 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 2: as many of them do, of playing five chess games 112 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 2: simultaneously while blindfolded. 113 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 3: So Bobby Fisher had no need to opine on the 114 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 3: politics of the day because he was getting rich and 115 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 3: famous and making a brilliant career for himself within his 116 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 3: narrow profession. 117 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 2: That's right, that's right. 118 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 3: But intellectuals what they well, they languished an obscurity. 119 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 2: Well, the whole question of when is someone well known 120 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 2: or not came up during the visit of Jim Flynt 121 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 2: from New Zealand here a few years ago. He's one 122 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 2: of the world's authorities on IQ tests. People you know 123 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 2: in India know about jimp plan people in England. He's 124 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 2: going he made world tour. But I doubt if the 125 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 2: people in the next block from where he lives knows 126 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 2: who he is, no know who he is? 127 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 3: I see, all right? It is far easier to content Again, 128 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 3: I'm quoting from intellectuals in society. It is far easier 129 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:27,560 Speaker 3: to concentrate power than to concentrate knowledge. Yes, what bearing 130 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 3: has that got on the influence that intellectuals have over 131 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 3: society as a whole. 132 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 2: Because they believe that since knowledge is concentrated in people 133 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:38,560 Speaker 2: like themselves, what needs to be done is, in a 134 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 2: quote from from President Obama, is to put more power 135 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 2: in the hands of the experts. 136 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 3: So the intellectual temptation is to say, look, we already 137 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 3: know everything that's right. If only we also had the power, 138 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:55,679 Speaker 3: the power, everything would be just fine. Yes, And what's 139 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 3: wrong with that view? Why isn't that a sensible view? 140 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:01,760 Speaker 2: One They don't know everything. They don't know one tenth 141 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:05,680 Speaker 2: of everything. In fact, I argue that they probably don't 142 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 2: know one percent of the consequential knowledge in a society. 143 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:12,960 Speaker 3: Consequential knowledge is is a concept that runs through This 144 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 3: book explained that. 145 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 2: Concept knowledge whose presence or absence has consequences, serious consequences. 146 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:20,960 Speaker 2: I mean, I was once in a plane that was 147 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 2: coming down for a landing in the Ithaca Airport, and 148 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 2: suddenly the pilot gunned the motor and went up again 149 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 2: because someone in the control tower had reminded him that 150 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:32,199 Speaker 2: he had lowered his landing gear. 151 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:34,920 Speaker 3: So that was consequential knowledge. 152 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 2: Yes, I just delighted that that person had had his 153 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 2: eyes open and his mind on his work. 154 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 3: So the notion here is that the kind of knowledge, 155 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:49,320 Speaker 3: the kind of consequential knowledge required to prove effective in 156 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 3: governing a nation such as the United States, with the 157 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:55,680 Speaker 3: biggest economy in the world three hundred million people. You 158 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 3: can put together quite a large group of professors, and 159 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:01,440 Speaker 3: they're still not going to possess the knowledge that would 160 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 3: enable them to run general motors, for example, or to 161 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 3: run the nation's healthcare system for example. 162 00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:11,640 Speaker 2: Absolutely. In fact, one of the things that has happened 163 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 2: all around the world in the twentieth century was that 164 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 2: all sorts of countries have tried central planning. Now, the 165 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 2: guys who run the central plan they usually have advanced 166 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 2: degree from prestigious institutions. They have mountains of statistics sitting there, 167 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 2: and they have all the experts of the country out there, 168 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:30,440 Speaker 2: beck and call. And yet when you take the power 169 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 2: out of their hands and return to the market, then 170 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 2: all the hundreds of millions of people who don't have 171 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 2: any of those things usually end up with a higher 172 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 2: rate of growth and a more rapidly rapid decline in poverty. 173 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 3: Because consequential knowledge, by its nature, tends to be diffused, 174 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:46,320 Speaker 3: widely diffused. 175 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:46,720 Speaker 2: Yes. 176 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:51,679 Speaker 3: Yes, Segment two, Intellectuals and Economics, we've already touched on this. 177 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 3: Two quotations. Number one, Paul Krugman quote, rising income inequality 178 00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:01,680 Speaker 3: isn't new, but what happened under Bush was something entirely unprecedented. 179 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 3: For the first time in our history, so much growth 180 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 3: was being siphoned off to a small wealthy minority that 181 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 3: most Americans were failing to gain ground even during a 182 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 3: time of economic growth. Close quote. Second quotation doctor Thomas 183 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:17,959 Speaker 3: Sole in Intellectuals and Society quote the statistics that the 184 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:22,320 Speaker 3: intelligentsia keeps citing are much more consistent with their vision 185 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:26,720 Speaker 3: of America than the statistics they keep ignoring. Close quote. 186 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 2: That's a tough one to encapsulate, but the basic confusion 187 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 2: is between statistical categories and flesh and blood people. It's 188 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 2: true that if you look at the percentage of the 189 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:42,680 Speaker 2: income that went to the top twenty percent of some 190 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 2: year a and then later on a decade later, you'll 191 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 2: find that that percentage has gone up, and you say, well, 192 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:51,839 Speaker 2: that shows this parity between the people. 193 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:53,960 Speaker 3: The rich are getting richer, rich you're getting richer. 194 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 2: But when you follow statistics generated by the Intel Revenue Service, 195 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:02,839 Speaker 2: which can follow particular individuals over time, you find the 196 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 2: people who are in the bottom twenty percent of taxpayers 197 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:09,319 Speaker 2: in the first year, their income is nearly doubled by 198 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 2: this late later period, while the income of the people 199 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 2: who are initially at the top is increased by last 200 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:17,200 Speaker 2: and you get down to the very top is actually 201 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 2: gone down, so that people are simply moving between these 202 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:24,200 Speaker 2: brackets from year to year, And the number of people 203 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:26,200 Speaker 2: who are in the bottom twenty percent, let's say nineteen 204 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:29,320 Speaker 2: seventy five, who are still there in nineteen ninety one 205 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:31,880 Speaker 2: is five percent of them. Really twenty nine percent of 206 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:33,559 Speaker 2: them who already gotten all the way to the top. 207 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 2: Absolute majority are in the top half. And so you're 208 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 2: comparing what happens to these abstract categories rather than what's 209 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:43,480 Speaker 2: happening to actual flesh and blood people. 210 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 3: So there's an enormous amount of churn in dynam. 211 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:51,640 Speaker 2: My gosh, almost everybody's own personal life. I mean, look 212 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 2: at what were you making when you were twenty years 213 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:55,199 Speaker 2: old compared to what you were making. 214 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:57,079 Speaker 3: When you were forty negative. I was spending my parents' 215 00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 3: money when. 216 00:12:57,440 --> 00:12:58,120 Speaker 2: I was talking you. 217 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:01,640 Speaker 3: You are right, okay, So why would the intellectuals? What 218 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 3: you've just made is an intellectually rigorous case. Why would 219 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 3: an intellectual, as you use the term, be loathed to 220 00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 3: look at that intellectually rigorous argument? Beloath to examine the 221 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:15,600 Speaker 3: data the way you did. 222 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:18,319 Speaker 2: Well. He's happy with the data that he got. Why 223 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 2: would he examine? Why would he go further? He looks 224 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:22,880 Speaker 2: at the numbers. The numbers say what he thinks it 225 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 2: should say. Hey, that's it, huey d And he moves 226 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:26,959 Speaker 2: on to the next great. 227 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:31,400 Speaker 3: Crusade, intellectuals and society. Once again, the very phrase income 228 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:36,960 Speaker 3: distribution is tendentious. Wealth can be created only after capital 229 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:39,760 Speaker 3: and labor have reconciled their competing claims and agreed to 230 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 3: terms on which they can operate together in the production 231 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 3: of wealth. Close quote income distribution. The very phrase is tendentious. 232 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 2: How come income is not distributed and newspapers are distributed, 233 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 2: Social Security execs are distributed, and one time milk was distributed. 234 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 2: Income is not distributed. People earn it directly from those 235 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:09,000 Speaker 2: to whom they provide some good or service. And the 236 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 2: argument made by many people you see, is that it's 237 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:16,719 Speaker 2: a question of capital and labor have conflicting interest and 238 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 2: dividing up the income. Right. No, No, there is no 239 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 2: income to divide up before they first reconcile their conflicting 240 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:28,320 Speaker 2: interests and decide on what terms they're going to produce 241 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 2: that income. There is no pre exist, there's no manner 242 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 2: from heaven for them to fight over. 243 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 3: You make the point what I'm coming to is the 244 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 3: economic crisis that we went through eighteen months ago. But 245 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 3: we'll start with the Great Depression, where all discussions of 246 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 3: economic crises should start, probably, And you make the point 247 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 3: that there are two large features of the Great Depression. 248 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:52,880 Speaker 3: One was the stock market crash, and the other was 249 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 3: the enormous government intervention, which began under Herbert Hoover and 250 00:14:56,880 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 3: continued and expanded under FDR. But Begander began quick In 251 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 3: other words, yes, and so you say, so you have 252 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 3: two large facts here. It's a very good question which 253 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 3: actually caused or prolonged the Great Depression, And it's a 254 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 3: question that very few intellectuals actually examine. 255 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 2: Well. One way of examining it would be just look 256 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 2: at the time period the stock market crish occurred in 257 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:22,320 Speaker 2: October nineteen twenty nine. Now there's data on unemployment month 258 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 2: by month. Two months after the stock market crish, unemployment 259 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 2: peaked at nine percent. It then began to decline irregularly 260 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:34,480 Speaker 2: until about six point three percent by June and nineteen. 261 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 3: Thirty, indicating the economy was attempting to recover. 262 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:40,960 Speaker 2: Yes, in June nineteen thirty, the government stepped in with 263 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:44,560 Speaker 2: his first massive intervention with a smooth Hawley tariff, passed 264 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:47,640 Speaker 2: despite a public appeal by more than a thousand economists 265 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:51,920 Speaker 2: from leading universities saying don't do it. They did it anyway. 266 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 2: It shows how much influence economists have. Wellin six months 267 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 2: after that, unemployment hit double digits for the first time, 268 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 2: and it never came down for the remainder of the decade, 269 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:09,840 Speaker 2: even for one month. And so the stock market crash 270 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:12,120 Speaker 2: brought you up to nine percent, and that was starting 271 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 2: to fizzle out. The government steps in to help, and 272 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:18,320 Speaker 2: I had that his double digits, and he eventually got 273 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:20,560 Speaker 2: got up to a peak of twenty five percent, and 274 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 2: it didn't fizzle out until the end of the decade. 275 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 3: All right, listen to a list, and then I'll ask 276 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 3: you a question. Chairman of the Fed. Benjamin Bernanki BA 277 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 3: at Harvard, PhD at MIT, Professor of Economics at Princeton, 278 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 3: Director of the National Economic Council, Laurence Summers undergraduate degree, MIT, 279 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 3: doctor at Harvard younger't tenured professor of Economics and Harvard History, 280 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 3: eventually President of Harvard. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner ab Dartmouth, 281 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 3: m A. Johns. Hopkins. He's the underperformer in the group. 282 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:49,600 Speaker 3: How did this group of intellectuals acquit themselves in handling 283 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 3: this the nation's economic crisis in two thousand and eight. 284 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 2: Well, first of all, they didn't handle it. The politicians 285 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 2: handled it. 286 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 3: Ah. 287 00:16:57,200 --> 00:16:59,560 Speaker 2: And so even if you were to say that these 288 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 2: guys really could have done a great job had they 289 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 2: had the unbridled power and so forth, they don't have 290 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:07,119 Speaker 2: the unbridal power. One of the problems with experts is 291 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:09,879 Speaker 2: that experts are hired by other people, and so you 292 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:11,720 Speaker 2: never know what the expert would have done. In fact, 293 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 2: there was an article in the Wall Street Journal sometime 294 00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:17,280 Speaker 2: back that the policies that are being followed in Washington 295 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:20,680 Speaker 2: are the direct opposite of the policies that Summers advocated 296 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:23,080 Speaker 2: when he published before he got to watch it, right, right, 297 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 2: So we should never assume that experts are just people. 298 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:30,880 Speaker 2: They're supplying information to politicians who are trying to do good. 299 00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 3: So surely, though the intellectuals had some the notion that 300 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:42,639 Speaker 3: the government should step in is a hangover from the 301 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 3: understanding of what took place during the New Deal, right, Oh, yes, okay, 302 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 3: So in other words, the intellectuals the politicians are acting 303 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 3: within it, within a world of options that intellectuals have 304 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:55,480 Speaker 3: created over the decades. Yes, right, and are you impressed 305 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:58,720 Speaker 3: by that? The intellectual framework? No? 306 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 2: All right? 307 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 3: Segment three Intellectuals and Vision. Intellectuals and Society. The vision 308 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:11,959 Speaker 3: around which most contemporary intellectuals tend to coalesce, has features 309 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:14,960 Speaker 3: that distinguish it from other visions prevalent prevalent in other 310 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:18,679 Speaker 3: segments of contemporary society or among elites or masses in 311 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:24,240 Speaker 3: earlier times. Close quote what is the vision to which 312 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:26,200 Speaker 3: contemporary intellectuals subscribe. 313 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:33,399 Speaker 2: That intellectuals should influence and not control, the kinds of 314 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 2: decisions that are made in society, and more especially, that 315 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:42,840 Speaker 2: they should promote the transfer of decisions from the masses 316 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 2: to those who have quote more intellect and what I'm given, 317 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:53,640 Speaker 2: how I conceive of knowledge being its distribution. That would 318 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:57,000 Speaker 2: mean transferring decisions from where there's ninety nine percent of 319 00:18:57,040 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 2: the knowledge to where there's one percent of the knowledge. 320 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:02,639 Speaker 2: I guess that background is not at all surprising that 321 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 2: things like central planning simply don't produce as good results 322 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:09,639 Speaker 2: as allowing all the millions of people to react in 323 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:10,399 Speaker 2: the marketplace. 324 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 3: All right, let me ask you a question that came 325 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 3: in from Twitter. Travis eight one four. All these questions 326 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 3: are limited to one hundred and forty characters, So get ready, 327 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 3: it's coming at you, but it'll go fast. Why does 328 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:26,720 Speaker 3: the liberal progressive mindset have such a stranglehold within the 329 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 3: intellectual academic world. Why should the vision that you just 330 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 3: described be so prevalent among intellectuals. 331 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:41,119 Speaker 2: Well, among the many reasons, most academic intellectuals have no experience, 332 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 2: no serious experience outside the academy. I remember I once. 333 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:50,880 Speaker 2: I was once an economists for AT and T when 334 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:53,719 Speaker 2: it was the world's largest corporation, and when I returned 335 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 2: to the academic world, they welcomed me as the prodigal sun. 336 00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 2: You see, had returned from the evils of corporate America, 337 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:06,719 Speaker 2: the true nirvana of academia. And not only do they 338 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 2: have no experience, they have every incentive to believe that 339 00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:12,760 Speaker 2: they are brighter than the other people, and no more 340 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:15,640 Speaker 2: than other people, because they've been told that all their lives. 341 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:19,920 Speaker 2: I mean, you've become a top intellectual because you've passed 342 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:23,080 Speaker 2: through all these successive filters, You've gotten into the best colleges, 343 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:25,640 Speaker 2: you've gotten into the best graduate. 344 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 3: Schools, or even from second grade on, the teachers are 345 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 3: responding to you as a kid who passes tests. 346 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, and so you have all of that in 347 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 2: your background. 348 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 3: You write in Intellectuals and society. If you happen to 349 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 3: believe in free markets, judicial restraint, traditional values, and other 350 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:42,639 Speaker 3: features of what you call the tragic vision, there's no 351 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 3: personal exaltation arising from those beliefs. If but to before 352 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:51,280 Speaker 3: social justice and saving the environment puts you on a 353 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:57,160 Speaker 3: higher moral plane. Yes, So the question here is Can 354 00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 3: it really be that simple that intellectuals across the American 355 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 3: landscape tend to embrace the vision that you've described, surely 356 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:12,720 Speaker 3: out of self flattery and self pleading. 357 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:18,080 Speaker 2: Yes it is, don't bet. Human beings have an enormous 358 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:21,520 Speaker 2: power of rationalization. Think of all the absurd things that 359 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:25,480 Speaker 2: have been believed throughout all of history, and I guess 360 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 2: the one common denominator is that those absurd things typically 361 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:31,920 Speaker 2: were very flattering to those who believed them. They had 362 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:34,439 Speaker 2: the one true faith. They were the van go out 363 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:36,800 Speaker 2: of the proletariat. You know, you just run through the 364 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:37,879 Speaker 2: whole list of the things. 365 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:42,600 Speaker 3: By the way, I've been reading some marks, I can't 366 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 3: understand how anyone ever took that seriously. I mean, ever 367 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 3: took it seriously. 368 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 2: Well, what are you reading? 369 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:51,080 Speaker 3: Sentence by sentence? It's oh, well, I actually began with 370 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:53,680 Speaker 3: the communist manifesto that he in angles. 371 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 2: Oh it's a magnificent If you want a model for propaganda, 372 00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 2: it is. It is the mass. 373 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:04,040 Speaker 3: But there's no there's actually absolutely no contact with actual 374 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:05,120 Speaker 3: economic reality. 375 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 2: No, there's no need for that is as many people 376 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 2: are showing, you can become president of the United States 377 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 2: with no contact with economic reality. 378 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:16,440 Speaker 3: All right, two quotations intellectuals and society quote. The intelligency 379 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:20,240 Speaker 3: often divide people into those who are for change and 380 00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:24,200 Speaker 3: those who are for the status quo. Candidate Barack Obama, 381 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 3: we are the change we have been waiting for, Yes, Tom. 382 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 2: People who say things like this. Actually, if there's sayings 383 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 2: he being new, this is what was being said back 384 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 2: in the seventeen nineties and ever since then. You know 385 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:42,960 Speaker 2: that there's nothing older than the idea that this is new. 386 00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 3: And Thomas Pain, we have it in our power to 387 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:49,719 Speaker 3: make the world over it. 388 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:56,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, you are, But in point of fact, there's again 389 00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 2: this is one of those totally unquestioned, unsubstantiated statements. John 390 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:05,080 Speaker 2: Dewey was saying, you know, that made the same thing 391 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 2: some sixty years ago, that those of us who are 392 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:11,240 Speaker 2: for change have to fight against those who are for 393 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:14,119 Speaker 2: the status quote. Now, the people he was talking about 394 00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 2: people like Adam Smith. Adam Smith was not for the 395 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:18,960 Speaker 2: status quote. Of course, as I mentioned in the book, 396 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 2: why would Adam Smith spend the whole decade writing a 397 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:25,480 Speaker 2: nine hundred page book to say how contented he was 398 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 2: with the way things were? I mean, when you spend 399 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 2: a decade writing a nine hundred page book. Something is 400 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:37,360 Speaker 2: bugging you, you know, I mean, And anyone who ever 401 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:39,439 Speaker 2: bothered to read Adam Smith would see that he is 402 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:41,280 Speaker 2: pretty ticked off about a lot of things. 403 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:46,200 Speaker 3: Once again, two quotations. You quote at a number of 404 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:49,119 Speaker 3: points in the intellectuals in society, you quote Justice Oliver 405 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 3: Wendell Holmes. Here's one of them, as Justice Oliver Wendel 406 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 3: Holmes said, the word right is one of the most 407 00:23:55,280 --> 00:24:00,280 Speaker 3: deceptive of pitfalls and a constant solicitation to fallacy. That's 408 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 3: quotation one. Here's quotation two. Barack Obama quote, healthcare should 409 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:07,680 Speaker 3: be a right for every American. 410 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:14,359 Speaker 2: Close quote, Well, there's the fallacy. No, it's uh, the 411 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:18,359 Speaker 2: word right. It's amazing and in one sense I can 412 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:23,320 Speaker 2: I can't just simply cannot explain it. People say we 413 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:26,800 Speaker 2: have a right to affordable housing, decent healthcare, we're right 414 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 2: to all kinds of stuff. And the question is where 415 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 2: did this right come from? 416 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:33,760 Speaker 3: By the way, it is literally the case that I 417 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:35,960 Speaker 3: heard on the radio the other day. One of the 418 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:39,280 Speaker 3: questions in healthcare is plastic surgery, whether it'll be taxed 419 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 3: or But I literally heard someone say that women have 420 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:45,640 Speaker 3: a right to botox treatments. You just thought i'd mentioned 421 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:46,000 Speaker 3: that for you. 422 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 2: Yes, well, but that's no more arbitrary than all the 423 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:52,280 Speaker 2: other things that are called rights. Right now, we were 424 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:55,159 Speaker 2: going to have this trial of these terrorists in a 425 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:58,960 Speaker 2: quote of law, which is absolutely unprecedented and absolutely absurd. 426 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:01,520 Speaker 2: And the question did that right come from was It's 427 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 2: not in the constitution. It is certainly not in the 428 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 2: Geneva Convention. It's just that by loose thinking people say, well, 429 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:11,719 Speaker 2: prisoners of war get treated that what Yes, they're not 430 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,680 Speaker 2: prisoners of war. The Geneva Convention said what prisoners of 431 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:17,720 Speaker 2: war were. People who were adhered to the Geneva Convention 432 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 2: get the protections of it. But during the Second World War, 433 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 2: when some German soldiers at the Battle of the Bulge 434 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 2: put on American uniforms infiltrated the US line and they 435 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:29,800 Speaker 2: were captured, it was simply lined up against the wall 436 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 2: and shot and killed right there. And it was not 437 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 2: something secret. The army filmed it, and I've seen the 438 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:39,239 Speaker 2: films on the History Channel. There was no question. If 439 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:40,960 Speaker 2: you don't play by the rules, you don't get the 440 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,160 Speaker 2: protection of the rules. It's that simple, right. 441 00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:47,119 Speaker 3: This leads us to segment for Intellectuals and War from 442 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 3: Intellectuals in Society, discussing the role intellectuals played between the 443 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:51,280 Speaker 3: two World wars. 444 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:51,560 Speaker 2: Quote. 445 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,160 Speaker 3: One of the most remarkable developments of the nineteen twenties 446 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,879 Speaker 3: was an international movement among intellectuals promoting the idea that 447 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:05,000 Speaker 3: nations could get together and publicly renounce war. What were 448 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:06,919 Speaker 3: they thinking, I. 449 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:10,160 Speaker 2: Guess they weren't thinking. They were reacting. They were reacting 450 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:12,400 Speaker 2: to the horrors of the First World War, which most 451 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:15,600 Speaker 2: of those intelectuals had supported by the way, uh and 452 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:17,840 Speaker 2: now and now they decided to know that was so awful. 453 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:21,359 Speaker 2: Ways we renounced war. There's no thought that, yes, you 454 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:24,040 Speaker 2: can renounce war. That does not stop your neighbor from 455 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:26,720 Speaker 2: building up the biggest army in the world and coming 456 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:29,960 Speaker 2: in and killing you. It's much much like this. It's 457 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,040 Speaker 2: much like the thinking about gun control. You know that 458 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:34,920 Speaker 2: you say, well, listen, I don't think people should have guns. Hey, 459 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 2: I wish people didn't have guns. But the fact is 460 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:40,600 Speaker 2: that passing the law does not stop them from having guns. 461 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:43,720 Speaker 2: It just makes you defenseless. One of the things I 462 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 2: think I mentioned in there passing is that in Britain, 463 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:50,000 Speaker 2: the burglary rate is far higher than the United States 464 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,120 Speaker 2: and were over. British burglars do not cate the place 465 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:55,480 Speaker 2: before they go in. Now, if you're in the United 466 00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:58,160 Speaker 2: States and you're gonna bust it at someone's house that night, 467 00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:00,960 Speaker 2: you made me met by a hale of books. And 468 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 2: Britain they have made burglary a safe occupationist like it's 469 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 2: like Ohsha for burglars. Right. 470 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:12,359 Speaker 3: Vietnam, Intellectuals and society again, among the many implications of 471 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 3: the war in Vietnam was that it once again illuminated 472 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:19,159 Speaker 3: the role of the intelligentsia in influencing the policies of 473 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:23,240 Speaker 3: a society and the course of history. Close quote. We 474 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:27,320 Speaker 3: didn't lose the war. The intellectuals surrendered on our behalf. 475 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:31,800 Speaker 2: Yes. In fact, the communists themselves in later years admitted 476 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 2: that there was no way they could have defeated the 477 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:35,680 Speaker 2: United States on the battlefield, and in fact that the 478 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,880 Speaker 2: Tet Offensive, which was the turning point that the communist 479 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 2: guerrilla movement was virtually wiped out in the South. But 480 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:45,919 Speaker 2: the intellectuals saw that as a victory for the communists 481 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:49,320 Speaker 2: and that the war was unwinnable and once a democratic 482 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 2: country decides that the war is unwinnable, it becomes unwinnable. 483 00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 3: Right now, Tom, what's the Vietnam raises a point that 484 00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,640 Speaker 3: just has to be addressed, and that is the special 485 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:05,280 Speaker 3: place of intellectuals in the Democratic Party. Isn't that fair point? 486 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 3: That the Democratic Party became, at least as regards the 487 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:12,640 Speaker 3: Vietnam War, became wholly influenced by the intellectual opinion. Correct? 488 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:16,439 Speaker 2: Yes, how come? But it's also true true that Nix was, 489 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:20,960 Speaker 2: And it's not because here's the thing. Machiavelli thought of 490 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:26,600 Speaker 2: intellectuals as influencing events by influencing the rulers and changing 491 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:30,360 Speaker 2: their minds. That no, that isn't the role. As Vietnam 492 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:35,120 Speaker 2: clearly showed. Neixon didn't care a damn for the intellectuals, right, 493 00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:38,040 Speaker 2: but they created a climate of opinion in which if 494 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:40,200 Speaker 2: he continue that war he would pay too high a 495 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:43,520 Speaker 2: political price. So he threw South Vietnam to the wolves, 496 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,680 Speaker 2: signed the negotiated agreement, and they love it. Negotiated agreements. 497 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 2: It doesn't matter what it says, so long as you've 498 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 2: signed and you win the Nobel Prize. Who cares if 499 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:55,959 Speaker 2: a few million people get killed in the aftermath. 500 00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:01,360 Speaker 3: What's the transmission mechanism from intel s actual opinion to 501 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,040 Speaker 3: the larger climate of opinion. This is where the media 502 00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 3: comes in. 503 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:06,720 Speaker 2: Oh there are many, Oh yeah, there are many transmission belts. 504 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:11,920 Speaker 2: I mean the schools, all from from the elementary school 505 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 2: right up through the graduate schools. The media. Now increasingly 506 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:22,040 Speaker 2: the treaches, even treasure that we think of as a 507 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:25,920 Speaker 2: conservative are out there pushing the liberal agenda. 508 00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:30,000 Speaker 3: Intellectuals in the Cold War again, intellectuals and societies. You're 509 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:32,960 Speaker 3: talking about Edward Kennedy, Senator Edward Kennedy was a leading 510 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:36,240 Speaker 3: voice for the nuclear freeze, joined by many other prominent 511 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:39,880 Speaker 3: political figures and by many in the media. Close quote. Now, 512 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:44,480 Speaker 3: this nuclear freeze movement reaches its most potent moment just 513 00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,080 Speaker 3: as Ronald Reagan is setting in place the policies that 514 00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:52,160 Speaker 3: actually the war and the Cold War? Yes, how come? 515 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:54,840 Speaker 3: Why why do they? Why do they? 516 00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:58,480 Speaker 2: But this goes way way back to at least the twenties. 517 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:02,320 Speaker 2: The idea and arms race is wrong, and not only wrong, 518 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 2: but it's dangerous that that will lead to war. And 519 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:10,240 Speaker 2: of course the counter evidence again, like so many things 520 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:13,360 Speaker 2: that intellectuals believe, it is not subjected to any kind 521 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 2: of empirical test because between the two World Wars, we 522 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:22,560 Speaker 2: had all these arms agreements and renunciations of war. And 523 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 2: although that just encouraged the Access power to feel that 524 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:28,840 Speaker 2: they could win this war because the West was too 525 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 2: gullible to arm themselves to defend themselves. 526 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:37,200 Speaker 3: Tom, we're talking about the Cold War. What do you 527 00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:40,840 Speaker 3: make of it? That Harry Truman who puts in place 528 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:45,480 Speaker 3: the containment, the fundamental structures of containment that remain in 529 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:51,720 Speaker 3: place for over four decades. Harry Truman takes office, was 530 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,240 Speaker 3: vice president for less than a year before taking office, 531 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,560 Speaker 3: assumes the Soviet Union is our ally because that was 532 00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 3: study and has within a year he discovers that, in fact, 533 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:05,160 Speaker 3: they have aggressive intentions. He changes and constructs America containment. 534 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:08,200 Speaker 3: In my judgment, he's a kind of heroic figure. I 535 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 3: would argue, and I think you agree with this, And 536 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,400 Speaker 3: then at the one so he begins our position in 537 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:14,800 Speaker 3: the Cold War. He stands up to the Soviets, and 538 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:16,640 Speaker 3: Ronald Reagan is the one who ends it. Now here's 539 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,200 Speaker 3: let me tell you about this. The educational background. Harry 540 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:25,120 Speaker 3: Truman finished high school. Yes, Ronald Reagan's college degree comes 541 00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:28,760 Speaker 3: not from some ancient eastern university such as those where 542 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 3: you studied, but from little Eureka College set in the 543 00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:36,560 Speaker 3: farming towns of central Illinois. Is that significant? 544 00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:41,960 Speaker 2: It may well be because they didn't have to fight 545 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:45,160 Speaker 2: off all the nonsense that they would have been taught 546 00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:47,040 Speaker 2: at these very prestigious institutions. 547 00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:52,120 Speaker 3: Intellectuals in Iraq you quote. In intellectuals in society, you 548 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:55,120 Speaker 3: quote New York Times columnist Paul Krugman, New York Times 549 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 3: columnist and Princeton economist Paul Krugman quote, to understand what's 550 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 3: happening in a rock follow the oil money, which already 551 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:06,640 Speaker 3: knows that the surge has failed. 552 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:08,240 Speaker 2: Yes, so. 553 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:14,040 Speaker 3: The surge worked. Of course Paul Kruman was just playing wrong. 554 00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:16,560 Speaker 3: So what did he think he was doing? 555 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:22,000 Speaker 2: Trying to explain other people is very tough, I mean 556 00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:26,040 Speaker 2: in some senses. I mean I am often baffled. Why 557 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:30,160 Speaker 2: did Larry Sombers, you know, try to hang on at Harvard? 558 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,200 Speaker 2: The man had millions he could he could have stood 559 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:36,520 Speaker 2: up and said what he thought. The whole notion of 560 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:40,520 Speaker 2: people being independently wealthy is very shaky for me, because 561 00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:43,200 Speaker 2: there are people out there where with multi millions who 562 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,120 Speaker 2: are afraid to speak thereby right. And there are other 563 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:48,200 Speaker 2: people who can barely make the rent, who will say, 564 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:51,360 Speaker 2: you know, just just what they're thinking, right, all right? 565 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:56,160 Speaker 3: Segment five intellectuals and the rest of us Again, intellectuals 566 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,840 Speaker 3: in society. There is a spontaneous demand from the larger 567 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 3: society for the end proper acts of engineering, medical and 568 00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:05,960 Speaker 3: scientific professions. But the demand for public intellectuals is largely 569 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:11,120 Speaker 3: manufactured by the public intellectuals themselves. Yes, explain that how 570 00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:13,520 Speaker 3: do they manufacture demand for their own services? 571 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:22,000 Speaker 2: Well, one thing is by making alarming predictions offering solutions 572 00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:26,920 Speaker 2: to our problems. And if they didn't do that, if 573 00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:30,440 Speaker 2: Nam Chomsky had just kept on stated and linguistics, neither 574 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:32,520 Speaker 2: of us probably would have ever heard of Knam Chomsky. 575 00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:34,720 Speaker 2: He would have been just as famous around the world 576 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:37,800 Speaker 2: among linguists, but nobody else would have heard of him. 577 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:39,479 Speaker 3: What do you make of global warming? 578 00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:45,880 Speaker 2: I think it's a classic example of the need for crusades. 579 00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:48,440 Speaker 2: Now people of many people are shocked by these emails. 580 00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:50,920 Speaker 2: I'm not at all shocked by them. I read the 581 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:54,240 Speaker 2: original UN study years ago, and I was just curious 582 00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:55,520 Speaker 2: as to how they were going to deal with the 583 00:33:55,600 --> 00:34:00,520 Speaker 2: question that the temperatures went up first, and then there 584 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:04,040 Speaker 2: was the increase in carbon dioxide, right, because you can't 585 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:08,799 Speaker 2: say that A causes B if B happened first. And 586 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:10,520 Speaker 2: so I read this and I could see there they 587 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:12,760 Speaker 2: were tiptoeing through the tuloops and the way they phrased 588 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:16,640 Speaker 2: things and so forth. They couldn't confront that. And now 589 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,480 Speaker 2: we're finding out that they knew Dawn well, they couldn't 590 00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:20,560 Speaker 2: deal with all the evidence. 591 00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:24,000 Speaker 3: So it fits the pattern of a group of intellectuals 592 00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:29,319 Speaker 3: science climate scientists who are have a very narrow competency 593 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:33,880 Speaker 3: suddenly proclaiming that there's a crisis scaring the rest of us, 594 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:39,160 Speaker 3: thereby creating a demand for their services, not as science 595 00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:42,920 Speaker 3: climate scientists alone, but as a kind of high priestly 596 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:44,759 Speaker 3: caste that can tell us all how to live and 597 00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:48,040 Speaker 3: save the entire planet, and in the meantime generate billions 598 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:52,120 Speaker 3: of dollars worth of government programs to fund their research initiatives. 599 00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:55,880 Speaker 3: And so are you it's a racket. 600 00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:59,800 Speaker 2: Yes, all right, But again you have to take account 601 00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:03,359 Speaker 2: of ability of human beings to rationalize. I'm sure there 602 00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:07,200 Speaker 2: are scientists out there who believes some are much of 603 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:09,440 Speaker 2: what they're saying and there are other line of scientists 604 00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:12,080 Speaker 2: who believe the opposite, But the ones who are pushing 605 00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:14,319 Speaker 2: global warming are doing their damness to make sure that 606 00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,200 Speaker 2: those who believe the opposite don't get heard in the public. 607 00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:21,640 Speaker 3: So wouldn't there shouldn't there be some large ish body 608 00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:26,360 Speaker 3: of climate scientists who say the data really does suggest 609 00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:31,319 Speaker 3: that we're headed into trouble here. But precisely because my 610 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:35,240 Speaker 3: saying so as a climate scientist will look like special pleading, 611 00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:39,080 Speaker 3: we as a community of scientists, should be even more 612 00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:42,719 Speaker 3: careful about being completely transparent pushing the data out to 613 00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:46,200 Speaker 3: the public. They should overcome the hurdle that it looks 614 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:49,280 Speaker 3: like self pleading. Why isn't that taking place? 615 00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:52,719 Speaker 2: There's no pay after that? All right? Imagine yourself as 616 00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:55,719 Speaker 2: an assistant professor in some department where the where your 617 00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:57,759 Speaker 2: senior colleagues who are going to vote on your pay, 618 00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:01,080 Speaker 2: among other things. I have millions of dollars in grants, 619 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:03,680 Speaker 2: hand it out to promote global warming, and you say 620 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:06,480 Speaker 2: just what you've just now said, and they'll say that's 621 00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:07,800 Speaker 2: this guy is incorrigible. 622 00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:13,400 Speaker 3: All right, Tom, What explains the exceptions During the nineteen thirties, 623 00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:18,960 Speaker 3: intellectual after intellectual after intellectual visits Russia and says this 624 00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:21,799 Speaker 3: is the land of the future. Oh, and Malcolm Muggridge 625 00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:24,360 Speaker 3: and a handful of others, but a tiny number of 626 00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:27,839 Speaker 3: other intellectuals say no, it isn't. Stalin is a Barbarian. 627 00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:33,080 Speaker 3: After the Great Depression, the tireeconomics profession is dominated by 628 00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:36,000 Speaker 3: John Maynard Keynes. And then along comes Milton Friedman, and 629 00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:40,520 Speaker 3: he just won't have it. What explains these these exceptions 630 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:43,399 Speaker 3: within among intellectuals who stand up. 631 00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:47,360 Speaker 2: That's for another book, for somebody else to write. In 632 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:49,759 Speaker 2: the end the preface, I mentioned that I will have 633 00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:53,279 Speaker 2: very little to say about Milton Friedman, not because he's 634 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:55,640 Speaker 2: not one of the most important people in the twentieth century, 635 00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,560 Speaker 2: but because he has such an exception to the general 636 00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:00,960 Speaker 2: pattern that I'm trying to explain. I believe it is 637 00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:02,880 Speaker 2: someone else to figure out the exceptions. 638 00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:04,360 Speaker 3: All right, let me try to ask you to figure 639 00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,120 Speaker 3: out one other, one other exception. I'm going to go 640 00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:09,080 Speaker 3: at you one more time on this one. Listen to this. 641 00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:14,719 Speaker 3: Barack Obama holds degrees from Colombia and Harvard and taught 642 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:19,040 Speaker 3: at the University of Chicago. Thomas soul, who, like Barack 643 00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:22,200 Speaker 3: Obama emerges from the African American experience in this country. 644 00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:26,680 Speaker 3: BA from Harvard, m A from Colombia, PhD from Chicago, 645 00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:30,800 Speaker 3: and has taught at Howard Brandeis, U, C l A, Cornell, 646 00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:36,280 Speaker 3: and Amherst. What accounts for the difference in visions between 647 00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:38,560 Speaker 3: Barack Obama and Thomas soul Oh. 648 00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:40,959 Speaker 2: My gosh, you were I mean, this is like trying 649 00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:43,000 Speaker 2: to account for every sparrow's fall. 650 00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:47,160 Speaker 3: I mean, we two pretty consequential sparrows. 651 00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:52,319 Speaker 2: Well here is at least, but no, you can't. It's 652 00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:56,440 Speaker 2: it's hard enough to account for general patterns. When you 653 00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:58,360 Speaker 2: get down to the individual. You would have to know 654 00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:01,080 Speaker 2: so much more than any of us has ever known 655 00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:04,000 Speaker 2: or will probably know for the next thousand years at least. 656 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:06,920 Speaker 3: All right, Bill Buckley quote, I would rather be governed 657 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:09,320 Speaker 3: by the first four hundred names in the Boston Telephone 658 00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:13,920 Speaker 3: Book than by the faculty of Harvard close quote very 659 00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:18,480 Speaker 3: nice encapsulation of the impulse. You'd hope that most Americans 660 00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:22,040 Speaker 3: would show to be suspicious of the experts. When Bill 661 00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:25,960 Speaker 3: Buckley made that remark in the nineteen sixties, roughly nine 662 00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:30,680 Speaker 3: percent of Americans held college degrees. Today the figure is 663 00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:35,000 Speaker 3: twenty nine percent and rising. Because roughly half of high 664 00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:38,719 Speaker 3: school graduates go to college, the first four hundred names 665 00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:42,000 Speaker 3: in the Boston telephone Book today are likely to include 666 00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:45,520 Speaker 3: a large number of Harvard graduates and Harvard professors. The 667 00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:50,040 Speaker 3: question here is simple, are we becoming a nation of intellectuals? 668 00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:53,840 Speaker 2: I hadn't thought of that it would be. It's a 669 00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:58,680 Speaker 2: chilling thought because we're becoming a nation of people who 670 00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:03,000 Speaker 2: are propaganda from elementary school right on through to the 671 00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:06,799 Speaker 2: graduate school in a certain vision of the world. And 672 00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:10,479 Speaker 2: only the ones who, for one reason or another, either 673 00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:13,600 Speaker 2: experience or insight or whatever leads them to say, wait 674 00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:16,719 Speaker 2: a minute, only those are the ones that we have 675 00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:17,319 Speaker 2: to depend on. 676 00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:20,719 Speaker 3: Last question. If you had a sentence or two to 677 00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:26,520 Speaker 3: say to the cabinet assembled around President Obama, and this 678 00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:32,640 Speaker 3: cabinet holds glittering degrees from one impressive institution after another, 679 00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:36,160 Speaker 3: if you could beseech them to be conduct themselves in 680 00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:38,359 Speaker 3: one particular way between now and the time they all 681 00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:39,640 Speaker 3: leave office, what would you say? 682 00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:43,480 Speaker 2: Actually, I would say only one word, goodbye, because I 683 00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:47,120 Speaker 2: know there's no point talking to them. It's like asking 684 00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:49,560 Speaker 2: you what would I say to the head of the mafia, 685 00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:52,360 Speaker 2: and to get him to give up crime. There wouldn't 686 00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:54,920 Speaker 2: be a thing I could say to him. All right, 687 00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:57,000 Speaker 2: he would say, give up crime. I make a thousand 688 00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,320 Speaker 2: times what you do? Why should I give up crime? 689 00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:05,560 Speaker 3: Doctor Thomas Soule, author of Intellectualist in Society. Thank you 690 00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:07,480 Speaker 3: very much and happy New Year. 691 00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:08,719 Speaker 2: Thank you and happy to you. 692 00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:12,480 Speaker 3: I'm Peter Robinson for Uncommon Knowledge in the Hoover Institution. 693 00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:13,640 Speaker 3: Thanks for joining us. 694 00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:17,880 Speaker 1: If you like the Michael Berry Show and Podcast, please 695 00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:22,200 Speaker 1: tell one friend, and if you're so inclined, write a 696 00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:27,360 Speaker 1: nice review of our podcast. 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