1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:01,680 Speaker 1: Are you a Stuff to Blow your Mind fan? Are 2 00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:03,880 Speaker 1: you a New Yorker? Do you plan to attend this 3 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:06,800 Speaker 1: year's New York Comic Con. If so, then you've got 4 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:10,639 Speaker 1: to check out our exclusive live show NYCC presents Stuff 5 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: to Blow Your Mind Live Stranger Science. Join all three 6 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 1: of us as we record a live podcast about the 7 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:21,640 Speaker 1: exciting science and tantalizing pseudo science underlying the hit Netflix 8 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 1: show Stranger Things. It all goes down Friday, October six 9 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 1: from seven pm to eight thirty pm at the Hudson 10 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:32,279 Speaker 1: Mercantile in Manhattan. Stuff you missed in history class has 11 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 1: a show right before us, so you can really double down, 12 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 1: learn more and buy your tickets today at New York 13 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 1: Comic Con dot com slash NYCC hyphen presents Welcome to 14 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind from How Stuff Works dot com. 15 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 1: Hey you, welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My 16 00:00:56,960 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: name is Robert Lamb and I am Christian, sacred Christian. 17 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 1: I have a question for you. I know that that 18 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 1: you also consume a lot of fictional media that has uh, 19 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 1: you know, different crazy fight scenes, crazy weapons. What is 20 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 1: the most appealing yet seemingly unrealistic weapon you've encountered before 21 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:18,119 Speaker 1: in your and you're you're reading and your viewing. Oh. 22 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 1: I can answer this very easily because it's it was 23 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 1: a movie that was super influential on me. It's actually 24 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 1: a series of movies the Umbrella because um yeah, I 25 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:29,960 Speaker 1: talked about this on the show before. Because I grew 26 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 1: up overseas, I ended up watching a lot of woosh 27 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:34,679 Speaker 1: yaw kind of kung fu movies when I was a kid. 28 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 1: And there's a series that Jet Lee was in in 29 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 1: the early nineties late eighties called Once Upon a Time 30 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 1: in China, and he plays this legendary Chinese uh character 31 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 1: who I think it's a real person, but it's also 32 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:52,880 Speaker 1: ostensibly argued that these movies are like history revisionist. Anyways, 33 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 1: this guy fights with an umbrella. That's his penguin style. 34 00:01:56,920 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 1: He like he uses the umbrella as like a defensive 35 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 1: thing against swords and other stuff like that. But then 36 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 1: he will also like occasionally open it up and like 37 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 1: spin it to kind of like distract his enemy as well. 38 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:10,799 Speaker 1: He does like backflips and stuff. I I love those 39 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:13,799 Speaker 1: movies so much that I actually got artist Kegan McLeod 40 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 1: to do a commission for me of this character that 41 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 1: Jetley played with the umbrella and everything. Well, you know, 42 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 1: an example that comes to my mind is another weapon 43 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 1: that shows up pin Hong Kong action films, and that's 44 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 1: the flying guillotine. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's totally 45 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:33,079 Speaker 1: in these as well. Yeah, which is kind of like 46 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:34,640 Speaker 1: if you haven't you really have to need to look 47 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 1: up a clip of it to know what I'm talking about. 48 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:40,120 Speaker 1: But it's essentially kind of a bladed ring that's also 49 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 1: made into a hat and it's attached to a string 50 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 1: and you kind of zip it around the room and 51 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:46,520 Speaker 1: try and make it land on your opponent's head and 52 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:49,959 Speaker 1: then you pull, you pull the string to decapitate it. Yeah, 53 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:52,519 Speaker 1: it's like the I don't know if there's any realism 54 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 1: to that weapon at all, but it's like the vorpal ring, right, 55 00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 1: because you just instantly kill these people if it works 56 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:01,920 Speaker 1: the way it's right, I think it's pretty it's it's 57 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 1: pretty clearly established. It's just like a folkloric weapon and 58 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 1: a weapon of fiction because it's just far too elaborate 59 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: and specialized to to really be all that that useful 60 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 1: in a fight. Yeah, but there is a weapon that 61 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 1: is very close to that actually, and a lot of 62 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:20,799 Speaker 1: people will recognize this weapon from an odd source you 63 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 1: would think coming from us. Well, I don't know. I 64 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:24,520 Speaker 1: guess I watched a few episodes of this back in 65 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:28,919 Speaker 1: the day. But Zena Warrior Princess, Yes, yes, Zeno Warrior 66 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 1: Princess stuff, which is itself as spinoff of what Hercules 67 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 1: the legendary journeys is that right? I never knew that. 68 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 1: I always thought of Zena as being a bigger than 69 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 1: that show. Well, she became bigger because I mean Hercules 70 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:42,960 Speaker 1: I think was fun for the time, but Zena became 71 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 1: a true pop culture icon absolutely. You know, the strong 72 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 1: female character and she's she's engaging in all of these 73 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 1: these battles where she's on equal footing or even you know, 74 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 1: superior footing against any adversary that darres a poser, and 75 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 1: she fought with a sword. But she also had this 76 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 1: really cool um sort of halo shaped, ring shaped, bladed 77 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 1: wet weapon called a chakram. Yeah. Yeah, and in fact 78 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 1: it's completely based in life and is a real thing. 79 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 1: And we did our best to dig up as much 80 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:19,240 Speaker 1: research on this as we could because we thought this 81 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 1: is such a bizarre weapon. You watched it in that 82 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 1: and it shows like that, right, and she throws it 83 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 1: around a room like Captain America throws a shield in 84 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:29,279 Speaker 1: it like kills like five people in one throw. Right, 85 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:32,839 Speaker 1: just com out completely unrealistic physics and and and a 86 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:35,600 Speaker 1: level of expertise with the weapon that just goes beyond 87 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 1: what is humanly possible. So you you watch something like 88 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 1: that and you think, well, this is this is just 89 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 1: pure fantasy. But there is this actual weapon that we're 90 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 1: gonna talk about today. We're gonna talk about it in 91 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:50,600 Speaker 1: terms of a little bit of mythology, uh, some military history, 92 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 1: and then some aerodynamics. But you have this this chakram 93 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 1: or shaker, and it is or sometimes just referred to 94 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 1: as a as a chakra, and it is a razor 95 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 1: sharp ring of metal designed to they sail through the 96 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 1: air and deliver spinning death or at least you know, 97 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:12,719 Speaker 1: laceration or mutilation to your adversaries. Yeah, it's so I 98 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 1: wish we could like put some JPEGs up for you 99 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 1: all right now to try to give you a visual 100 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 1: understanding if you haven't seen one of these before. But 101 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:23,280 Speaker 1: it's more like Halo than a disc, right, And we'll 102 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:25,920 Speaker 1: give you some pop culture examples other than zena. If 103 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 1: you're unfamiliar with that, that maybe will help cement this 104 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: for you. But it's essentially a death aeroby like if 105 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:33,359 Speaker 1: you're familiar with the aerobie the frisbee that has the 106 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:35,920 Speaker 1: center cut out of the metal, that's what we're talking about. 107 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:39,039 Speaker 1: Imagine one of those, but sharp on the outside. And 108 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:40,880 Speaker 1: there are a couple of different forms. So there was 109 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 1: the che car sada and that is the version that 110 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 1: was smooth and had a sharp outer layer like on 111 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 1: its edge. But there was also the checkr cut of 112 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:53,599 Speaker 1: dar and that had a serrated outer edge. And actually, 113 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:55,360 Speaker 1: in some of the videos that we watched for this, 114 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:57,040 Speaker 1: I noticed that there are a few people who had 115 00:05:57,080 --> 00:06:00,359 Speaker 1: the serrated ones. In particular, there was a deo I 116 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:04,119 Speaker 1: watched of like there's an actual um Seek weapons master 117 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:07,599 Speaker 1: who still practices the same martial arts forms and he 118 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:10,480 Speaker 1: was demonstrating how you use these and he had the 119 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:13,839 Speaker 1: serrated ones. Yeah, the the serrated one also has I 120 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:16,360 Speaker 1: think more of a tie in with with with Hindu 121 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: mythology as well discussed. But before we get into that, 122 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 1: let's let's talk a little bit more about pop culture. Um. Yeah, 123 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:27,159 Speaker 1: this seems to be a largely underutilized weapon in fiction, 124 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 1: which is crazy considering how fantastic it is. I think 125 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 1: other than Zena, probably the most recognized version that people 126 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 1: would know it from is Tron. They had the second one, 127 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 1: Tron Legacy. Yeah, not which not that many people actually 128 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:45,479 Speaker 1: went so but but so. Yeah, if you remember in 129 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 1: the in Tron movies, they had the disks that they 130 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:49,599 Speaker 1: threw around in the discs also like had like what 131 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 1: like the information of their personalities on them or yeah, 132 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 1: their identity discs or I think sometimes referred to as 133 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:57,719 Speaker 1: the discs of Tron as in the old video game. 134 00:06:57,839 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 1: But in Legacy, they would have these like battles where 135 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,160 Speaker 1: they would like each two people would face off with 136 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 1: these things. They throw them around the room, they bounce 137 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 1: off walls, and like eventually strike each other. Right, because 138 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:08,360 Speaker 1: it was essentially the Internet, right, you're just heating your 139 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 1: identity at other people until somebody perishes. But in the 140 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 1: first film it was more of a frisbee, and in 141 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 1: the second film it was more of a roby or 142 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 1: essentially a chakram. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So there's a couple 143 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 1: other examples we have here, mainly from video games, it seems, Yeah, 144 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 1: So one key example there is the hat that the 145 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 1: Mortal Kombat character Kong Lao wears, and it it's a hat, 146 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 1: but it is essentially a chockram, a shockram that's just 147 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 1: kind of been perverted into a hat, I guess. And 148 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 1: then he this character has a son in m k X, 149 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 1: the most recent uh Mortal Kombat entry, and this uh, 150 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 1: this character whose name is Kong Jin, he uses this 151 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 1: is one of his weapons, but it's not his signature weapons, 152 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 1: so it's not like his character defining weapon. It's like 153 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 1: a special thing, like if you hit buttons in the 154 00:07:57,120 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 1: right order, he'll whip one of these others. Yeah, it's 155 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: just one of his many special attacks. So I feel 156 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 1: like there's there was more potential there that too, to 157 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 1: really claim the shock wonder if Zena just like dominated 158 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 1: the chakram market, you know, I guess in the way 159 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 1: that Wonder Woman. I mean, there are a lot of 160 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 1: lassos with characters either you know, it's true. You know, 161 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 1: it's kind of like cowboys came and owned it, and 162 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 1: so anyone, and of course Wonder Woman. So everyone feels 163 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:25,240 Speaker 1: like if they have a lasso, they're just gonna echo 164 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 1: cowboy movies or wonder wold. Yeah, but there is a 165 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:32,280 Speaker 1: fascinating uh physics to this weapon too, and I think 166 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 1: it's it's actually really interesting when you see it in 167 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 1: video game format too, because they have to sort of 168 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 1: consider how the physics of the real world, like the 169 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 1: math of the real world of throwing essentially a frisbee 170 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 1: with blades that somebody would works three dimensional spaces. It's 171 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:49,679 Speaker 1: also as well, as we'll discuss when we get into 172 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 1: the actual military history of the of the weapon, there's 173 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:55,680 Speaker 1: also a hula hoop element to it. So I would 174 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 1: be remiss if I didn't point out that the two 175 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:01,760 Speaker 1: thousand five fighting games Sol Caliber three featured a female 176 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 1: fighter named Tira who kind of dresses like a circus 177 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 1: a performer, and she has a hoop shaped weapon that 178 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 1: she uses and it it basically looks like a big 179 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:13,959 Speaker 1: hula hoop with blades, and she uses it like that, 180 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 1: so it's kind of like an oversized chakram, but she's 181 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 1: she's sort of employing it in ways that are reminiscent 182 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:26,560 Speaker 1: of the actual use of this weapon. So the wearing 183 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 1: of these is actually based in fact. So uh, some 184 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:34,079 Speaker 1: of the ways that it was used was they were 185 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 1: either worn over turbans, or they were sometimes worn around 186 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:41,840 Speaker 1: the neck, or a warrior would put like, you know, 187 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 1: four or six of these across like their shoulder or 188 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 1: something like that, so they could carry them into battle 189 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 1: and have a bunch of them. Yeah, they're ready to 190 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 1: go because they're they're you know, around your limbs. Now, 191 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:55,360 Speaker 1: of course, it's important to note here that there are 192 00:09:55,440 --> 00:10:00,560 Speaker 1: other hoop shaped weapons or circular weapons uh in various cultures, 193 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 1: but they don't necessarily spin. Now, there's some variations of 194 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 1: the charuken or throwing star. Uh. You'll find some varieties 195 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:14,080 Speaker 1: that have a kind of mini chakram appearance, and likewise uh. 196 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:18,720 Speaker 1: In Chinese marshal art, there's the thing who oh loon, 197 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 1: which is uh the this is known as that the 198 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:24,680 Speaker 1: wind and fire wheels, and these are circular in um 199 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 1: in shape, but they're kind of but they don't spend 200 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 1: and you just kind of grip them. They're like giant 201 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 1: oversized circular bladed brass knuckles. Okay, And you asked me 202 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 1: if there was any superhero comic book examples, and I 203 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 1: couldn't think of any off the top of my head. 204 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 1: I dug a little bit and the only thing I 205 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 1: could find was Stanley created. Stanley in the last like 206 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:46,080 Speaker 1: twenty years has just created a ton of characters so 207 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 1: that like different companies can say, like Stanley created such 208 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 1: and such, and they do like four issues or whatever, 209 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 1: and that's it. So he created this character that's like 210 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:58,680 Speaker 1: an Indian superhero named chakra Um and he appears to 211 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 1: have I don't think wields these things, but he has 212 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 1: like the symbolism of the chockrame, like in his costume 213 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:07,439 Speaker 1: and like in his his powers, like circles with sort 214 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 1: of edges to them. And well, that's probably a good 215 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 1: jumping off point to begin to get into the sort 216 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 1: of mythological power all of the chakram and its use 217 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 1: as a mythological weapon, because like like anything in that, 218 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:24,840 Speaker 1: you know, goes deep into Hindu mythology, like the thing 219 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 1: becomes a symbol, and the symbol becomes an you know, 220 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 1: another entity entirely kind of expands outward. Yeah. Absolutely, So 221 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 1: it's first mentioned in the ancient Hindu text, the rig Veda, 222 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:40,719 Speaker 1: and in that it's described as glowing. So these are 223 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:43,680 Speaker 1: like glowing haloes that are thrown and I think sometimes 224 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:48,320 Speaker 1: there's a flaming element to Okay, okay. And then Vishnu, 225 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 1: the you know famous figure. Uh, he had one a 226 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 1: chok ram that was named sudar Shan chakra, and this 227 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:59,680 Speaker 1: means vision of that which is auspicious to do movement. 228 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 1: So the weapon itself symbolized clearing of the path of 229 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 1: God like there is a there's a strong religious symbolism 230 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 1: to this weapon in the circular nature of it. Yeah, 231 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 1: I also referred to as the s Shaanna Chakra, and 232 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 1: it's said to have one eight serrated edges around it. Oh, okay, 233 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:22,600 Speaker 1: and so that one one oh eight is an important number, 234 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 1: that that is a sacred number in in a few 235 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 1: different Eastern traditions. Yes, now he It's worth noting that 236 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 1: the villain Ravana who kidnaps Sita in the Ramayana, this 237 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 1: guy has a boon against the weapon's power, so it's 238 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 1: ineffective against him. But Vishnu uses the his chakra to 239 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 1: decapitate a number of different adversaries. So there's Rahu, the 240 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 1: the the the ashra that becomes the entity of the eclipse. 241 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 1: He uses it against the Kashmiri king Damodara and against 242 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 1: the water demon Jallowed Baba. And I found a real 243 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:02,560 Speaker 1: fun account of this slang of the water demon in 244 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 1: which it said that the Suda Shaanna Chakra quote was 245 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 1: so drunk on Johla Babda's blood that he had totally 246 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:14,959 Speaker 1: lost control over his senses and was wandering in all 247 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:17,440 Speaker 1: three worlds without knowing what he was doing. But he 248 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 1: here being the web weapon itself, because because it's interesting 249 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:25,199 Speaker 1: when you start looking at interpretations of this, of this 250 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 1: weapon this, and it's worth noting that it is a 251 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 1: wonder weapon. It isn't It is one of the ostras, 252 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:35,120 Speaker 1: which are these these varying Just think like legendary sentient 253 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:37,959 Speaker 1: weapons from dungeons and dragons. That's what you have here. 254 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:41,320 Speaker 1: So it's one like the one ring, but much bigger 255 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 1: and you throw it. Yeah, you have a god show 256 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 1: up in the God in many cases will have this 257 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 1: sacred weapon, and sometimes mortals get to interact with them 258 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:52,319 Speaker 1: to varying degrees. But then in the case of Vishnu's weapon, 259 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 1: it becomes an entity, becomes anthropomorphized and becomes essentially it 260 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 1: takes human form. Yeah. Well, I'm also thinking you just 261 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:03,520 Speaker 1: mentioned that it was connected to a god that is 262 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:06,440 Speaker 1: a god of the eclipse, and I'm thinking, like the 263 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 1: way that the eclipse can look has a ring formation 264 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:13,080 Speaker 1: to it as well, or halo obviously, so that seems 265 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:16,160 Speaker 1: to make sense. Symbolism. Yeah, you can see why this 266 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 1: would explode through throughout a culture's symbolism and their religious 267 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 1: iconography because, I mean, circles are so key to to 268 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:29,480 Speaker 1: most religious traditions. I'm surprised with their recent solar eclipse 269 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 1: that more people didn't get into shock rooms. Instead, everybody's 270 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 1: got these like cheap sunglasses left over. Now, yeah, where 271 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:38,560 Speaker 1: was Aeroby? At least should have jumped in and said, hey, Arooby, 272 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:41,160 Speaker 1: where the we're the we're the official um, you know, 273 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 1: recreational item of the eclipse. Yeah, it's perfect. It's easy 274 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 1: to you know, to look at the myth here and 275 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 1: uh and say, okay, well this is um this is 276 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 1: clearly just an elaborate crazy weapon that a Hindu god 277 00:14:55,440 --> 00:15:00,320 Speaker 1: uses and then zena warrior princess uses it. But surely no, buddy, 278 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 1: is it's spinning around a mini hula hoop of death 279 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 1: and using it against their adversaries and realistic combat. Because 280 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 1: when you look at at weaponry across human culture, you 281 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 1: do tend to see recurring motifs, right like and granted 282 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 1: there there are many varieties and variations that take place, 283 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 1: but still, like people are killing each other with swords, 284 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 1: they're using spears, they're using clubs, they're they're slinging arrows 285 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:29,280 Speaker 1: at each other. Um. So it's it's kind of easy 286 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:31,520 Speaker 1: to just on the surface of things think that any 287 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 1: weapon that elaborates beyond those basic forms is just something 288 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 1: that someone dreamed up because it was fun. Yeah. Yeah, 289 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 1: I think it's important to point out here too that 290 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 1: the chack ram, at least the way that it was 291 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:49,040 Speaker 1: demonstrated in the research that we looked at, can be 292 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 1: thrown in two ways. It can be thrown like a frisbee, obviously, 293 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 1: but ideally the way you want to throw it is 294 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 1: by spinning it around on your index finger with your 295 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 1: finger in the center of the halo, because that's the 296 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 1: part that's not sharp. And if you're doing it right, 297 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:06,600 Speaker 1: you can let it whip the way you would with 298 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:10,480 Speaker 1: like in a roby, and it will go far, quiet 299 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 1: and in a straight line. And they the demonstrations I 300 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 1: saw this thing like it is designed to cut through 301 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 1: a human limb. Like there they have to quote daft 302 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 1: punk or to miss to alter their quote. If you're 303 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 1: doing it right, everybody will be bleeding. Ah, very nice, 304 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 1: very nice. Yeah. I mean one of the demonstrations I 305 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:34,960 Speaker 1: saw this was they they looked at thick bamboo as 306 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 1: being analogous to a human limb, and then they tested 307 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 1: them against the bamboo and it cut right through. Yes. 308 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 1: I saw some demonstrations with sugarcane, the idea being that 309 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 1: sugarcane had the thick had basically the thickness of human bone, 310 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 1: and therefore they would if it would cut through that, 311 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 1: then it was up to snuff. Yeah. I can't imagine 312 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 1: getting hit with one of these. Well, you know, let's 313 00:16:57,440 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 1: take a quick break and when you come back, we 314 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 1: will will get more in depth about the military history 315 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:10,159 Speaker 1: of the chakra. Alright, we're back. So, as we've already discussed, 316 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 1: we know that the use of chakram's probably dates back 317 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 1: to uh, you know, the time of the Hindu epic Mahabarata, 318 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 1: because we see we read accounts of its use there 319 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:26,719 Speaker 1: now at times either some fantasy and its description like 320 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 1: that it's returning like a boomerang uh and and that 321 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 1: does not seem to be the case with the chakra 322 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:33,440 Speaker 1: as far as we know. The physics of that are 323 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 1: not designed for it, right, you know, the same way again, 324 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 1: like good luck throw in Captain America's shield and getting 325 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 1: it to bounce back and come to you. Yes, and 326 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:44,639 Speaker 1: good luck catching a chakram, right, Yeah, nobody wants to 327 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 1: catch a chakra. Yeah. But but but we know that 328 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:50,560 Speaker 1: it was used in in Vadic India. And we know 329 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 1: this because it it became one of the primary SHOs 330 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:57,840 Speaker 1: stars or weapons of the ghatka, which is the seekh 331 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 1: martial art. Okay, Yeah, and that's what I saw demonstrated 332 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:03,960 Speaker 1: in these videos with the martial artists who specialized in 333 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:08,240 Speaker 1: that form. Yeah. The Sikhs really became the I guess, 334 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:11,359 Speaker 1: the masters and the stewards of the chakram even into 335 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:14,159 Speaker 1: modern day. Let's actually, let's take a quick tangent and 336 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:17,720 Speaker 1: explain Sikhism if just in case there are people in 337 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 1: the audience who are vaguely aware of it but don't 338 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:22,879 Speaker 1: really understand. You know, why, why would why would this 339 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:25,200 Speaker 1: religion have its own martial art for instance? Yeah, I 340 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 1: think this is a great excuse to discuss Sikism a 341 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:30,240 Speaker 1: little bit, because Sikhism is a is a major world 342 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 1: religion that is really I think under represented and often misunderstood. 343 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:39,840 Speaker 1: People will will see see because there's there are a 344 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:42,480 Speaker 1: lot of Seeks living internationally and not just in the 345 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 1: you know, the Punjab region of India and uh and 346 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:50,640 Speaker 1: and sometimes they are confused with with with Muslims or 347 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 1: with with with or people think that they are Hindu 348 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:56,119 Speaker 1: or or Buddhist and they don't really understand what what 349 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 1: Sikhism is. Yeah. Absolutely so Again, like I grew up 350 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 1: in Southeast Asia, A couple of the kids who went 351 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:04,520 Speaker 1: to our school where Seeks, some of our teachers were 352 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:08,800 Speaker 1: seek uh And then also like living in the northeast, 353 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 1: there was a big Sikh community around the Boston area, 354 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:14,359 Speaker 1: and I remember right after nine eleven there was a 355 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 1: lot of like consternation because essentially people who didn't know 356 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 1: any better assumed Seeks were for some reason Muslim, I 357 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 1: guess because they had beards and war turban war turban, 358 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 1: and so there was like violence against the Sikh community. Yeah. So, 359 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 1: just to just to lay out the basics, Sikhism is 360 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 1: a monotheistic ethno religion that follows the teachings of Guru Nanak. 361 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:42,119 Speaker 1: This was a and and Sikism emerged in the Punjab 362 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 1: region of northwestern India during the sixteenth century, and it's 363 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:49,960 Speaker 1: most notable to outsiders because a Sikh Man carry a 364 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 1: ceremonial sword or dagger Uh, they's called a kurpan. But 365 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:59,240 Speaker 1: the chakram also factors into their traditions, sometimes worn and 366 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:01,520 Speaker 1: in their turn been or around the turban or in 367 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:03,680 Speaker 1: the past on a on a conical turban. Yeah, the 368 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:07,440 Speaker 1: warriors had specific turbans that they would wear in conjunction 369 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:10,360 Speaker 1: with the shock rams that were more cone like. Yeah. Now, 370 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 1: the kurpon the wearing of the of the of the dagger, 371 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:15,440 Speaker 1: the sword, that's one of the what's called the five 372 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 1: k's Uh. Each of these are are a practice or 373 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:22,919 Speaker 1: tradition that is symbolic of the seek faith, each in 374 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:27,119 Speaker 1: its own right. So you have kesh which is uncut hair, cara, 375 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 1: a steel bracelet, conga a wooden comb uh, kotsha which 376 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:37,400 Speaker 1: is which is essentially a special form of cotton undergarment. 377 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:41,920 Speaker 1: And then there is the kirpon the steel sword or dagger. Now, 378 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 1: the sword itself, the wearing of the weapon can stand 379 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:48,960 Speaker 1: for a number of different things. Spirituality, the soldier, part 380 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:52,440 Speaker 1: of soldier saints, defensive, good defense, of the week, struggle 381 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 1: against injustice or a metaphor for God. Now this in 382 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:58,200 Speaker 1: a Seek faith. We're not gonna have time to really 383 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:00,480 Speaker 1: do a deep dive on it here, but it it 384 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:03,720 Speaker 1: basically centers around good works and the leading of a 385 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:08,119 Speaker 1: moral life. And there were ten gurus and all beginning 386 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:10,879 Speaker 1: with that that first guru Guru Nanak who founded it, 387 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:15,639 Speaker 1: and then you had the final guru, Guru Gobin Singh, 388 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:19,159 Speaker 1: who lives sixteen sixty six through seventeen o eight, and 389 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:22,359 Speaker 1: he decreed that after he died, the Seek Holy Book, 390 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:27,160 Speaker 1: the Guru Grand Sahd would serve as his successor instead 391 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:31,159 Speaker 1: of a human being. Interesting, that's very interesting, especially like 392 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:35,920 Speaker 1: in light of other religions and sort of uh, you know, viz. 393 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 1: For power Game of Thrones over over religious power. I 394 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:43,359 Speaker 1: guess what I really find interesting about this, and especially 395 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 1: what you were just saying about the sword, is the 396 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 1: cultural symbolism here, right, because both the sword in the 397 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:53,360 Speaker 1: Chakram have symbolic meaning that's related to their religion, right, 398 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:56,639 Speaker 1: And uh, it's you know, you see this in in 399 00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 1: some Western forms, but usually in depictions, right, like a 400 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 1: coat of arms or something will be the shape of 401 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:04,399 Speaker 1: a shield and it might have a sword in it, 402 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:07,360 Speaker 1: but the actual shield and the sword may not actually 403 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:12,320 Speaker 1: be symbols related to Christianity, right, Whereas in this their weapons, 404 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:14,520 Speaker 1: I'm not going to say that their weapons were specifically 405 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:17,240 Speaker 1: designed to be symbols, but rather the other way around. 406 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:20,680 Speaker 1: They found out ways for them to symbolically be connected 407 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,200 Speaker 1: to their beliefs, which made them even more important. Yeah. 408 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:27,320 Speaker 1: In fact, the key Sikh icon has does have a 409 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 1: chakram right along with blades. Uh. Yeah, I do want 410 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:32,919 Speaker 1: to say that if you want to learn more about 411 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:37,159 Speaker 1: about Sikhism and the Sikhs, I highly recommend the BBC 412 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 1: Religion page on the topic. And uh it's you can 413 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 1: basically do it by doing a search for BBC Religion 414 00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:45,720 Speaker 1: Sikhism and this page will come up for you. But 415 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:47,960 Speaker 1: it's it's in depth and it's laid out in a 416 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 1: very consumable fashion. Okay, all right, so let's not miss 417 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:56,800 Speaker 1: the point though, that the chakram was a weapon. It 418 00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:00,080 Speaker 1: was deployed in battle, and the Sikhs used it in 419 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 1: battle for a large portion of their history, so they 420 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:06,920 Speaker 1: had they would go into battle with these these iron rings. 421 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:10,480 Speaker 1: Typically there are about twenty centimeters in diameter, and again 422 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 1: they had had that sharp outer edge blunt inner edge, 423 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:17,880 Speaker 1: and a warrior would go in with as you mentioned earlier, 424 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:21,120 Speaker 1: with the shock him around his neck, around his arms, 425 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:23,280 Speaker 1: and then you could throw it like a frisbee, but 426 00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:26,160 Speaker 1: most likely would spin it around a finger and then 427 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:30,919 Speaker 1: sail it into the enemy. In particular, historical accounts indicate 428 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,280 Speaker 1: that the Sikhs use these weapons in compact against the Moguls, 429 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 1: and typically in volley fire at a range of a 430 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:41,920 Speaker 1: few dozen meters, so that the Sikh warriors known as 431 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:45,679 Speaker 1: the Nahan, would fling the weapons in into the enemy's 432 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:48,359 Speaker 1: front lines in order to break up the troops. So 433 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 1: you wouldn't be necessarily sending this at a single person, 434 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:56,040 Speaker 1: but you just vollowing them into a mass of troops 435 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:58,240 Speaker 1: in order to break them up. Yeah, it doesn't seem 436 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:01,960 Speaker 1: to me like there is you know, obviously if anybody's 437 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:05,679 Speaker 1: played frisbee before, especially something like ultimate frisbee, right, like, 438 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 1: it's not that predictable as to where the disc is 439 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:12,160 Speaker 1: conn right well, but you do have more precision over 440 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:15,800 Speaker 1: the arobie style and therefore the chockrame style. What's um 441 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:18,200 Speaker 1: now to give you some dates to sort of ground 442 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:20,480 Speaker 1: this so you have an understanding of when this was used. 443 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 1: The mogul fighting that Robert just mentioned that was seeks 444 00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 1: fighting against persecution during that period and that was fifteen 445 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:32,159 Speaker 1: fifty six to seventeen oh seven, and then it was 446 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,560 Speaker 1: used again during the Anglo Seek Wars which were eighteen 447 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:38,160 Speaker 1: forty five to eighteen forty six, and then again from 448 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:41,000 Speaker 1: eighteen forty eight to eighteen forty nine. So that's our 449 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:45,200 Speaker 1: most recent example, that nineteenth century form of it. Now 450 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:47,440 Speaker 1: one of the one of the videos we're looking at 451 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 1: his research for this because it's it's it's hard to 452 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:55,800 Speaker 1: find a lot of hardcore material on the chockrame. I 453 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:59,199 Speaker 1: did find a uh an excellent source on on the 454 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 1: practices of seek is um the Oxford Handbook of Seek Studies. 455 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,159 Speaker 1: That was really helpful, as well as as when we 456 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,120 Speaker 1: get into more of the aerodynamics, I found a book 457 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:12,320 Speaker 1: titled Spinning Flight Dynamics of Frisbee's Boomerangs, Um Samaras and 458 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 1: Skipping Stones by Ralph de Lorenz. But we also look 459 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:19,360 Speaker 1: to some of these videos that feature Seeks demonstrating their 460 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,560 Speaker 1: martial art, and one of the points they made is 461 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 1: that so many weapons that are thrown or fired any 462 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:30,680 Speaker 1: kind of ranged weapon, there's only one point or one 463 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:33,399 Speaker 1: part of the weapon that can injure the opponent. So 464 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,159 Speaker 1: if it's it's like throwing an axe, right, Yeah, if 465 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 1: you get the revolution right, yeah, it's going to sink in. 466 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:41,200 Speaker 1: Otherwise it's going a less effective portion of the ax 467 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 1: may strike the enemy. But for the chackram, all, all 468 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 1: all portions of the of the blade in flight are 469 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 1: going to do damage to whatever hits comes in contact 470 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:55,119 Speaker 1: with it. Yeah. Absolutely. The example I recall them using 471 00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 1: was using a throwing knife versus using a shock ram. 472 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:00,359 Speaker 1: If you throw a knife, you could hit somebody with 473 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 1: a handle and it might not really do all that 474 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:04,000 Speaker 1: much damage. If you hit them with a chockram, no 475 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:07,680 Speaker 1: matter where it lands, it's gonna hurt. And as you mentioned, 476 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:10,200 Speaker 1: so the symbolism again is still important. In fact, today 477 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:13,120 Speaker 1: the Seek holy flag that flies outside of their places 478 00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:16,959 Speaker 1: of worship portrays the conda, and this is a symbol 479 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 1: of the Seeks that features a chokram in its design. 480 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,439 Speaker 1: And again getting back to that circular thing, it's a 481 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:24,880 Speaker 1: circle without a beginning or an end, so it makes 482 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:28,840 Speaker 1: a perfect iconic symbol for the perfection of an eternal God. Alright, 483 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:30,640 Speaker 1: we're gonna take a quick break and when we come back, 484 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 1: we're gonna discuss some of the aerodynamics of the chockram 485 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:37,000 Speaker 1: and the and the aerobie and and see what what 486 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 1: science has to say about this, uh, this alleged wonder 487 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:47,480 Speaker 1: weapon than Alright, we're back. So I just last week 488 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:49,960 Speaker 1: and this isn't related to us choosing this as a topic. 489 00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 1: Got a toy for my dogs to play within the yard, 490 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 1: and you know dogs love frisbees, right, So I went 491 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 1: to the pet store and they had this thing that 492 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 1: now I realize is essentially a cockram. It's this like 493 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:05,200 Speaker 1: plastic sort of in a robie, not plastic rubber um, 494 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 1: but it has a halo interior so you can spin 495 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,359 Speaker 1: it around on your finger. But it's especially great because 496 00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:12,200 Speaker 1: the dogs like to catch it and then like hold 497 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 1: it in the inside of their mouth that that ring um. 498 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 1: And I didn't realize like, you know, throwing it around. 499 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 1: Actually it's advertised on the packaging and everything, and it 500 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:24,040 Speaker 1: says like, oh, this is this is especially developed so 501 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:26,200 Speaker 1: that it flies very easily for dogs, and it's got 502 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:29,480 Speaker 1: like this unlike the chock ram or most frisbees has 503 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,000 Speaker 1: like kind of like a wobbly pattern to it on purpose, 504 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:34,159 Speaker 1: and I think it's just for like people like me 505 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,760 Speaker 1: who aren't that great at throwing frisbees, and it's sort 506 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 1: of naturally adjust the aerodynamics for you, so it goes 507 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:44,080 Speaker 1: in more of a straight line than it would. Oh man, 508 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:47,199 Speaker 1: this is just making me imagine all of these dogs 509 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:51,040 Speaker 1: out there that are being trained, essentially trained to intercept 510 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:54,359 Speaker 1: chock rams in midflight. I mean, luckily there are a 511 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:57,480 Speaker 1: type of shock rams flying around out there, but I 512 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 1: can just imagine it, and it's well, hey, remember our 513 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:05,960 Speaker 1: episode on using animals as weapons, and when they used 514 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:10,080 Speaker 1: to this as recently as the last century, they would 515 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,880 Speaker 1: strap bombs to dogs backs and have them climb under 516 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:16,359 Speaker 1: tanks and essentially stand up and and self detonate. You know, 517 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:18,960 Speaker 1: So I wouldn't be that surprised if the chock frame 518 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:22,240 Speaker 1: came back into style, if they started training dogs to 519 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:25,000 Speaker 1: be that, that would be awful. That's like the worst 520 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,600 Speaker 1: like most graphic thing I can probably imagine is a 521 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 1: because you know, I'm a dog lover, well man, you know, 522 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,800 Speaker 1: like if aliens attack tomorrow and they used disc or 523 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,560 Speaker 1: chackrame based weapons, the dogs would just jump out there 524 00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:39,640 Speaker 1: and and unwittingly sacrifice them themselves. I mean, what if 525 00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,760 Speaker 1: the Predator show The Predator does have a disc weapon? Yeah? Yeah, 526 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:44,840 Speaker 1: And you know, it's a good thing that dogs never 527 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:48,320 Speaker 1: get uploaded into the Tron universe. So she went on 528 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 1: your identity rings. So, but if we're gonna bring it 529 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:55,400 Speaker 1: back into the real world. The flying disc obviously dates 530 00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 1: back to the chockrame, but it was actually popularized by 531 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,720 Speaker 1: the Wamo company in the Team fifty seven with their 532 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:06,720 Speaker 1: trademark Frisbee Now. Alan Adler then designed the aeroby long 533 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 1: distance throwing ring specifically after the chockrame and his added 534 00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:15,960 Speaker 1: air foiling technology as it's called. Basically, it's added to 535 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:17,880 Speaker 1: the rubber and the plastic that are in these rings 536 00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:20,240 Speaker 1: allows them to go up to two d and fifty meters. 537 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:22,080 Speaker 1: Most of us are familiar with these, yeah, I mean, 538 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:25,120 Speaker 1: it's it's worth pointing out that the air the Aeroby 539 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,840 Speaker 1: pro in particular, has held two Guinness World records for 540 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:32,840 Speaker 1: the longest throw of an object without any velocity aiding feature. Wow. 541 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:35,800 Speaker 1: Have you ever played frisbee golf before? I have not. 542 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 1: It's my my brothers really into it, and so I've 543 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:42,600 Speaker 1: gone occasionally to a couple of frisbee golf courses, and 544 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 1: you know, like in golf, there's different types of frisbees 545 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:49,440 Speaker 1: in the same way there's different types of clubs. And 546 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:51,920 Speaker 1: I think listeners correct me if I'm wrong, but I 547 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 1: think there might be one of the frisbees that is 548 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:56,880 Speaker 1: is like a chockram that has a halo in two. 549 00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:59,600 Speaker 1: So you're permitted to use a chockram in like ultimate 550 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,480 Speaker 1: frisbee frisbee golf. I don't know about ultimate frisbee but 551 00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:05,560 Speaker 1: I think because frisbee golf, essentially your goal is you 552 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,160 Speaker 1: try to throw the frisbee so that it lands inside 553 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:12,719 Speaker 1: a basket. That's like your version of the golf hole. Yeah. 554 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:15,320 Speaker 1: I think one of the key things here to keep 555 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:18,360 Speaker 1: in mind, and the the aerobi versus frisbee debate, if 556 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:22,600 Speaker 1: you will, there's basically no debate. The aerobe or chockram 557 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:26,400 Speaker 1: design is aerodynamically superior. And that's one of the beauties 558 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:30,880 Speaker 1: of this is that that in ancient India they perfected 559 00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:34,440 Speaker 1: this form long long before anyone was interested in just 560 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 1: throwing them around, long before they had rubber available to them. Right, Um, So, 561 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 1: how did the physics of this whole thing work. Right, 562 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:43,920 Speaker 1: You're probably saying, Hey, this is a science podcast, you 563 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,240 Speaker 1: guys can actually talk about the science of this thing. Yes, 564 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:48,240 Speaker 1: we will here it is. So if you think of 565 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:53,080 Speaker 1: it this way, a flying disc is an axe symmetric wing. Okay, 566 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 1: So it's one wing that's symmetrical with an elliptical cross section, 567 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:01,280 Speaker 1: and the lift of the body is what's important here. Right. 568 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:03,520 Speaker 1: There's a lot of math involved in this, in the 569 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:06,560 Speaker 1: physics behind it, and I don't think it would probably 570 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 1: not be fun to listen on a podcast to me 571 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,440 Speaker 1: just spell out equations for you. So I'm gonna deter 572 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:15,000 Speaker 1: from that. But what determines the lift is the cross 573 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:19,880 Speaker 1: sectional area working together with the disks density. So this 574 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:23,040 Speaker 1: is its free stream velocity and a constant of its 575 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:26,800 Speaker 1: shape and its angle. Okay, now we all anybody who's 576 00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 1: throwing a frisbee basically understands this, right, Like how heavy 577 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:31,800 Speaker 1: the thing is, how dense the thing is versus like 578 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:34,280 Speaker 1: the angle that you throw it at, and then probably 579 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,800 Speaker 1: like what the conditions are in the air, right, So 580 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:41,680 Speaker 1: how does it stay stable? Well, the center of pressure 581 00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:45,520 Speaker 1: due to the lift is offset by gravity, so gravity 582 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:48,360 Speaker 1: is obviously another function here. So if you just simply 583 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:50,920 Speaker 1: threw it right, imagine and we've all done this as 584 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:52,840 Speaker 1: little kids. You take a frisbee and you don't even 585 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,440 Speaker 1: try to throw it like the way that a disc 586 00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:58,760 Speaker 1: would go. You just like huck it and the lift 587 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,960 Speaker 1: causes it to up over backwards. When you do something 588 00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:05,760 Speaker 1: like that, the spin itself of the disk is key 589 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 1: to keeping the gyroscopic stability and speed of these things, 590 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:13,280 Speaker 1: and this is something that the warriors who used the 591 00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 1: chockrame figured out. Now, the mass of the disk is 592 00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:19,000 Speaker 1: also going to affect this as well. Right, we were 593 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,680 Speaker 1: talking about density before, but also just it's mass, a 594 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 1: greater inertia will also increase his stability. So the heart 595 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:29,000 Speaker 1: you throw it essentially right, those more stable it could 596 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,920 Speaker 1: potentially be. Now in the case of the frisbee, the 597 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:35,480 Speaker 1: disc having a what is called a viscous no slip 598 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:40,360 Speaker 1: condition also contributes to the vorticity right the way that 599 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,680 Speaker 1: it's spins, So part of the whole, like rubber design 600 00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:47,440 Speaker 1: uh is built into that to to contribute to that. 601 00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:50,240 Speaker 1: When you look at the chockram, I think it's pretty similar, right, 602 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:53,400 Speaker 1: Like I was watching one of those um Man at 603 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:57,840 Speaker 1: Arms reforged videos where they like actually made Zena's chockrame 604 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:00,320 Speaker 1: and they were test throwing them. But while they were 605 00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:03,760 Speaker 1: forging them, they were making sure that it was as 606 00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 1: flat as possible, as smooth as possible. They spent a 607 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:08,400 Speaker 1: lot of time on a grinder making sure that the 608 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:11,320 Speaker 1: shape worked well so that it would be it would 609 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:15,440 Speaker 1: throw and have this vorticity. So the circulation about the 610 00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:18,000 Speaker 1: disk itself and the flow of the air that moves 611 00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:22,160 Speaker 1: past it causes a force that determines its angular momentum. 612 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,960 Speaker 1: And this is attributed to something that's called the Magnus effect. 613 00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,440 Speaker 1: And essentially this is caused by one side of the 614 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:33,520 Speaker 1: disk perceiving a higher free stream velocity than the other, 615 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:36,400 Speaker 1: which causes a pressure gradient. So you know, one side 616 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,240 Speaker 1: of the disk basically has like the the air going 617 00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:42,240 Speaker 1: kind of over it. Uh, it's interesting. Like again, this 618 00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:44,040 Speaker 1: would be another point where it would be nice if 619 00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:46,400 Speaker 1: we had graphics on a podcast. But if you see 620 00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:48,520 Speaker 1: charts of this, it shows you just how the air 621 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,880 Speaker 1: is kind of moving around the object itself. For instance, 622 00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:56,400 Speaker 1: here's an example, when you throw a frisbee clockwise, it 623 00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,160 Speaker 1: tends to veer to the left right. It's the same 624 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:02,520 Speaker 1: effect that causes a ping pong ball to travel along 625 00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:05,520 Speaker 1: a curved path when a player puts a spin on 626 00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:07,680 Speaker 1: it with their paddle. You know, like if you're real 627 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:10,480 Speaker 1: into ping pong and you know how to do the spin, uh, 628 00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:13,160 Speaker 1: it's the whole It's the same thing essentially, so it 629 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:16,040 Speaker 1: allows it to to move in a particular direction. Now, 630 00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:19,279 Speaker 1: some of us do this unintentionally, myself included. This goes 631 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:21,560 Speaker 1: back to that dog toy was talking about. We're also 632 00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:25,040 Speaker 1: just you know, human and child toys. I feel like 633 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:27,400 Speaker 1: this this effect of throwing a frisbee is one of 634 00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:31,759 Speaker 1: the reason that many attempts to play with frisbees and 635 00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:34,400 Speaker 1: like a few throws in because you're like, through the frisbee, 636 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:36,840 Speaker 1: it should be fun, but it's over there now yeah 637 00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:39,680 Speaker 1: yeah right, Like that's inevitably I'll throw it and it 638 00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:41,920 Speaker 1: lands nowhere near the person who's supposed to catch it, 639 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:43,960 Speaker 1: and they're just like, come on, what are you doing? 640 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:48,759 Speaker 1: Um now. Frisbees also used the discs rim and the 641 00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:51,600 Speaker 1: top ridges on it to improve these effects. So you know, 642 00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,400 Speaker 1: remember like the molding on on the frisbees we use 643 00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:56,520 Speaker 1: as kids that would have kind of like those those 644 00:34:56,719 --> 00:35:00,400 Speaker 1: actually they're almost like serrations right, Um, but the ockram 645 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:03,880 Speaker 1: doesn't have these. The chockram is essentially flat. Now, in 646 00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,520 Speaker 1: the case of the chockrame, its shape allows it to 647 00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:10,920 Speaker 1: hold a stable position for relatively long distances. Now, in fact, 648 00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:14,400 Speaker 1: it is actually more efficient than a frisbee, exactly like 649 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:17,680 Speaker 1: what Robert said, you can throw these things further. And 650 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:20,759 Speaker 1: one thing that's key to these is the design of 651 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:24,239 Speaker 1: the chockrame is designed to make it silent, to like, 652 00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:26,959 Speaker 1: you don't want people to hear this thing necessarily, Yeah, 653 00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:28,760 Speaker 1: the first thing they're going to hear or the screams 654 00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:31,960 Speaker 1: of it cutting into your right. It's not like with 655 00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:35,200 Speaker 1: Zeno where she does that like weird yelping how right 656 00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:40,160 Speaker 1: before she throws it Amazonian kind of war cry. So 657 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:44,160 Speaker 1: to try and um, you know, summarize and also maybe 658 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,120 Speaker 1: just add a little bit uh more to our discussion 659 00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:50,480 Speaker 1: of a very dynamics here. So the chockrame aerobie design 660 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,840 Speaker 1: is going to minimize torque. It's gonna fly straight without rolling, 661 00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:56,760 Speaker 1: and it requires very little angle of attack and works 662 00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:00,880 Speaker 1: with the near a horizontal throw and as Ralph Delrenz 663 00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,600 Speaker 1: points out in that book, spinning flight, which I definitely 664 00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:05,680 Speaker 1: recommend for anyone wants a deeper dive in all of this, 665 00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:09,440 Speaker 1: he writes at the chockram quote exploits the stability of 666 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:13,000 Speaker 1: a spinning ring with the aerodynamic performance of a flat plate. 667 00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:17,120 Speaker 1: So it's circumvents the frisbee or the flying discs. Main 668 00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:21,560 Speaker 1: aerodynamic problem forward center lift and the resultant pitch up 669 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:25,000 Speaker 1: moment with increased range. You know what, I just remembered 670 00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:28,319 Speaker 1: another pop culture example. It's not a shockram, it's more 671 00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,000 Speaker 1: like a frisbee. Do you remember in the Dark Tower 672 00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:36,040 Speaker 1: books they meet that tribe of women who throw plates. 673 00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:38,640 Speaker 1: They're like steel plates, and they come up with this 674 00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:42,120 Speaker 1: martial arts form where they throw them as uh like 675 00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:45,640 Speaker 1: cutting weapons. Three is this the waistline? It's Wolves of 676 00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:49,080 Speaker 1: the co That one was more recent. I can't believe it. 677 00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:52,319 Speaker 1: And then like Susannah learns how to perfect this. There's 678 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:54,839 Speaker 1: this amazing drawing in the book of her in her 679 00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:57,200 Speaker 1: wheelchair throwing a bunch of these at a wall and 680 00:36:57,239 --> 00:36:59,440 Speaker 1: they're all like sticking into the wall. I forgot all 681 00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,040 Speaker 1: about that, And just now I remember the flying death spares. 682 00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:06,080 Speaker 1: Uh that, but but not anything else. Okay, Well, there's 683 00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:08,600 Speaker 1: a there's another example of a flying discs. I do 684 00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,440 Speaker 1: love it when they're they're utilized well, uh in a 685 00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:14,239 Speaker 1: fictional property, But but more often than not, they're gonna 686 00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:16,960 Speaker 1: be frisbee shaped as opposed to chockrame shape, it seems. So. 687 00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:21,319 Speaker 1: Now we're talking about aerodynamics here, so I imagine some 688 00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,960 Speaker 1: people were wondering, well, how about how about chockrame based aircraft, 689 00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:28,360 Speaker 1: especially given that we just recently talked about alien abduction 690 00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:31,520 Speaker 1: for two episodes in the show. Most UFOs are reportedly 691 00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:35,399 Speaker 1: disc shaped. Yeah, they're talking about spinning disks and and 692 00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:38,040 Speaker 1: if you're into this sort of thing, there are those 693 00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:41,240 Speaker 1: who who point back to a lot of different elements 694 00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:45,080 Speaker 1: of the wonder weapons utilized in Hindu mythology and say, oh, well, 695 00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:48,920 Speaker 1: clearly this is a UFO, this is a nuclear weapon, etcetera. 696 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:51,560 Speaker 1: It's interesting. I mean, I don't buy into it, but 697 00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:55,200 Speaker 1: it's it's kind of a fun exercise that sounds like 698 00:37:55,280 --> 00:38:01,239 Speaker 1: some three eyed Ravens stuff there. Yeah, probably so uh uh. 699 00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:03,640 Speaker 1: So I did some digging around, and while there are 700 00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:08,120 Speaker 1: some wonderful examples of disc shaped aircraft designs, there's not 701 00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:12,120 Speaker 1: really anything in the way of true chockrame style aircraft. 702 00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:14,799 Speaker 1: So you have, for instance, there's the the l RV, 703 00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:18,479 Speaker 1: the Lenticular Reentry Vehicle, which was a US Cold War 704 00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:23,440 Speaker 1: era nuclear warhead delivery system that probably never actually flew, 705 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:26,360 Speaker 1: and it it kind of looked like a flying saucer, 706 00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:28,680 Speaker 1: and that's one of the reasons that that certain communities 707 00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:33,759 Speaker 1: are really into talking about them. But yeah, this particular 708 00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:36,880 Speaker 1: aircraft may have not even have flown, and it certainly 709 00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:41,719 Speaker 1: didn't spin around in circles. Um other flying disc aircraft 710 00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:45,240 Speaker 1: also looked similar to the chockrame, but they basically relegated 711 00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:47,920 Speaker 1: the center of the disc to engine or a cockpit, 712 00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,000 Speaker 1: and in any event, these didn't spin either. You had 713 00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:56,799 Speaker 1: the uh the Avro Canada VC nine Avro Car, which 714 00:38:56,840 --> 00:39:00,040 Speaker 1: is a vertical takeoff design, but there were thrust in 715 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:03,440 Speaker 1: stability problems with it. During World War Two, the Luftwaffe 716 00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:07,440 Speaker 1: had the sack A S six prototype circular wing aircraft, 717 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:09,960 Speaker 1: and also during the Second World War, the U. S. 718 00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:15,239 Speaker 1: Navy experimented with the Void x F five you or 719 00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:19,200 Speaker 1: flying Flapjack, which was a fun looking design with like 720 00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:21,360 Speaker 1: a circular wing array, but as it turns out, it 721 00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:24,040 Speaker 1: didn't actually fly. It just kind of hopped and therefore 722 00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:29,200 Speaker 1: was failure there's actually a fun a thesis that I 723 00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:34,279 Speaker 1: ran across from one chew for Hanna Hassan, and he's 724 00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:37,640 Speaker 1: a mechanical is or was a mechanical engineering student at 725 00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:41,799 Speaker 1: the National University of Singapore, and he took inspiration from 726 00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:44,360 Speaker 1: the chockram in designing a drone and even build a 727 00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:47,960 Speaker 1: functional prototype. So I'll try and include a link to 728 00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:50,480 Speaker 1: his website that has his thesis in a video of 729 00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:54,280 Speaker 1: this chockram based drone flying. But I think it's interesting 730 00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:59,360 Speaker 1: because maybe we just haven't reached the point in in techno, 731 00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:02,520 Speaker 1: in technological achievement where we're going to have like functional 732 00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:07,760 Speaker 1: chockram flying vehicles or flying drones well the way, Okay, 733 00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:10,600 Speaker 1: So I'm trying to think about it. Uh And obviously 734 00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:13,160 Speaker 1: I'm not an engineer, so forgive me out there, but 735 00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:15,040 Speaker 1: I'm trying to think about it from the perspective of 736 00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:18,520 Speaker 1: designing something that flies like a chockram but is stable 737 00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:21,840 Speaker 1: enough for a pilot, right, And I think the problem 738 00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:24,080 Speaker 1: would be that your pilot would be getting spun around 739 00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:27,720 Speaker 1: and would just completely you know, be unable to pilot 740 00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:30,480 Speaker 1: such a such a device if it was moving with 741 00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:32,759 Speaker 1: that kind of spin. So you've got to find out 742 00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:36,560 Speaker 1: a way to keep the center from spinning while the 743 00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:41,920 Speaker 1: actual ship itself has these I guess exterior halo discs 744 00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:45,760 Speaker 1: that spin around that allows it to move. The closest 745 00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:47,840 Speaker 1: thing that I can think of in one of the 746 00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:51,560 Speaker 1: old old in one of the prequel Star Wars movies, 747 00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:54,360 Speaker 1: I think, didn't Obi Wan Kenobi have like a spaceship 748 00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:58,359 Speaker 1: that had like a an exterior ring kind of thing, 749 00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:01,280 Speaker 1: and then like the actual pod was in the middle, 750 00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:04,280 Speaker 1: but the rings didn't move around, they didn't actually spin. 751 00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:07,360 Speaker 1: This is interesting, you know, I'm I'm beginning to wonder 752 00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:10,960 Speaker 1: this might be a whole future episode for us. But 753 00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:15,440 Speaker 1: you have all these accounts of alleged UFOs that we're spinning, 754 00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:20,600 Speaker 1: and certainly we've talked about the use of spinning spacecraft 755 00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:24,160 Speaker 1: as a as a means of potentially creating a suitable 756 00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:28,120 Speaker 1: amount of artificial gravity. But I don't recall ever running 757 00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:31,040 Speaker 1: across any arguments as to why a UFO would be spinning, 758 00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:34,240 Speaker 1: Like what is it? Is it somehow supposed to uh, 759 00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:38,160 Speaker 1: you know, provide it's it's acceleration, or is it maintaining 760 00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:42,080 Speaker 1: an internal environment, or is it just like the circular 761 00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:48,600 Speaker 1: spinning disk is such a like pervasive symbol throughout all cultures. 762 00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:51,040 Speaker 1: It's universal, right that, It's like it's pretty easy to 763 00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:54,880 Speaker 1: ground that as like a ship design. And yet again 764 00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:57,120 Speaker 1: I can't really think other than like you know, X files, 765 00:41:57,120 --> 00:41:59,120 Speaker 1: spaceships or something like that. I can't really think of 766 00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:02,799 Speaker 1: any even and fictional examples of this working. Yeah, not 767 00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:05,479 Speaker 1: not off hand, but hey, maybe listeners out there can 768 00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:09,000 Speaker 1: can provide us with some examples. Yeah, totally. So if 769 00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:11,520 Speaker 1: you want to write into us, tell us maybe something 770 00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:13,960 Speaker 1: that you know about this fabulous weapon that we missed, 771 00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:18,360 Speaker 1: or tell us, you know some aerodynamics information on how 772 00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:22,360 Speaker 1: the disc shape could contribute to an actual flying vehicle. 773 00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:25,000 Speaker 1: You can reach out to us on social media. We're 774 00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:29,920 Speaker 1: on Facebook, Twitter, Tumbler, and Instagram, and in fact, we 775 00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:33,600 Speaker 1: also have our Facebook discussion module right now which is 776 00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:37,919 Speaker 1: running hot. There are some great conversations going on in there. 777 00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:40,400 Speaker 1: I want to thank everybody who's listening that is in 778 00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:43,880 Speaker 1: there contributing. It's really turning into its own little community, 779 00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:47,840 Speaker 1: people talking about stuff not even uh necessarily related to 780 00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:50,960 Speaker 1: the podcast, but our potential topics that we would talk about, 781 00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:55,319 Speaker 1: and having conversations amongst themselves. Yeah. Yeah, by all means 782 00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:58,000 Speaker 1: jump in and join the conversation there and and do 783 00:42:58,160 --> 00:42:59,919 Speaker 1: let us know if there are some any great shot 784 00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:03,440 Speaker 1: ram based fight sequences in films that we're just not 785 00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:06,400 Speaker 1: aware of. Particularly, I know I'm not that well versed 786 00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:10,520 Speaker 1: in in Hindi films, and I know there's some phenomenal 787 00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:14,279 Speaker 1: action sequences that do pop up. Surely there must be 788 00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:18,240 Speaker 1: some kind of Bollywood film in which these are used, 789 00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:21,319 Speaker 1: you think, yeah, or or perhaps they've popped up in 790 00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:24,640 Speaker 1: Hong Kong cinema into some entry that I'm not familiar 791 00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:28,040 Speaker 1: with because there's so many different elaborate weapons. Granted, most 792 00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:31,600 Speaker 1: of which are are based in in Chinese traditions. But 793 00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:34,040 Speaker 1: you know, sometimes you just need to add some spark 794 00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:37,399 Speaker 1: to your fight sequences and incorporate something new. Right, that's right, 795 00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:40,640 Speaker 1: it's true. And hey, another way you can contact us, 796 00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:44,040 Speaker 1: the old fashioned simple way. Reach out to us on 797 00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:46,600 Speaker 1: email at blow the Mind at how stuff works dot 798 00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:59,120 Speaker 1: com for more on this and thousands of other topics. 799 00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:23,520 Speaker 1: Does it how stuff works dot com