WEBVTT - Barstool Sports CEO Erika Nardini Learns From Digital Media's Past Mistakes 0:00:06.160 --> 0:00:09.440 Welcome to another episode of the Strictly Business podcast, where 0:00:09.440 --> 0:00:11.440 we talked with some of the brightest minds working in 0:00:11.440 --> 0:00:15.600 the media today. I'm Andrew Wallenstein with Variety. Well, the 0:00:15.640 --> 0:00:18.400 struggles of companies like Vice and BuzzFeed seem to be 0:00:18.440 --> 0:00:21.799 well documented these days, not everyone in the digital content 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:25.840 publishing world is suffering. Bar Stool Sports, for one, is 0:00:25.880 --> 0:00:30.120 attracting a growing audience at some controversy with a business 0:00:30.160 --> 0:00:35.280 that spans everything from podcast to get this pink lemonade vodka. 0:00:35.960 --> 0:00:38.400 Here to discuss all things bar Stool is. It's CEO 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:42.280 Eric and Ardini. Erica, thanks for coming in, Thanks for 0:00:42.320 --> 0:00:44.600 having me. I'm hoping you're going to tell me the 0:00:44.640 --> 0:00:48.360 secret formula. It's not. It's a little more complicated. Lemonade 0:00:48.360 --> 0:00:52.440 and is slightly more complicated, and it's the rest of 0:00:52.479 --> 0:00:55.279 your business is very complicated as well. Well, we'll get 0:00:55.320 --> 0:00:57.960 to the beverages in time. But what I want to 0:00:57.960 --> 0:01:01.760 do first is, I know there aren't many audiences for 0:01:01.880 --> 0:01:04.360 media brands out there that are devoted as the so 0:01:04.440 --> 0:01:07.400 called stew Leys as they're known, But I want to 0:01:07.440 --> 0:01:10.880 explain Barstool first to the uninitiated. I know there's a 0:01:10.880 --> 0:01:13.160 lot of brands out in the sports world, from ESPN 0:01:13.319 --> 0:01:17.280 to bleacher Report. So how would you say bar stools 0:01:17.520 --> 0:01:22.400 voice differentiates from those typical players in the space. Yeah. 0:01:22.440 --> 0:01:26.760 I think Barstool Sports is infinitely an Internet company. We 0:01:26.760 --> 0:01:30.560 were born of the Internet. Dave Portnoy founded Barstool in 0:01:30.600 --> 0:01:34.920 two thousand four. He developed a very distinct point of 0:01:35.000 --> 0:01:38.440 view and voice which really resonated with what he would 0:01:38.480 --> 0:01:40.640 have called at the time the common man. So what 0:01:40.880 --> 0:01:46.039 really sets barstool apart tonally is that we are on 0:01:46.080 --> 0:01:49.120 the same level as our fans. Were not purporting to 0:01:49.240 --> 0:01:53.480 be journalists, were not purporting to be authorities. What we 0:01:53.560 --> 0:01:56.680 really want to do is to make people laugh. It's 0:01:56.680 --> 0:02:00.400 a company that does not have an agenda be on that. 0:02:01.080 --> 0:02:04.880 We do satire, we have humor, We cover entertainment, we 0:02:04.960 --> 0:02:09.360 certainly cover sports. But what makes Barstool very different is 0:02:09.480 --> 0:02:12.280 really the Internet of it all. That we are focused 0:02:12.320 --> 0:02:14.520 and born out of the Internet. There are plenty of 0:02:14.520 --> 0:02:17.160 digital native content companies that are suffering right now and 0:02:17.200 --> 0:02:20.720 being digital native didn't really help them. Yeah, what what 0:02:20.760 --> 0:02:23.280 did you guys figure out that others didn't? I think 0:02:23.320 --> 0:02:26.959 the what the challenge with Internet brands right now is 0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:32.280 that they forgot about the consumer. There they point of 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:36.760 view and voice became commoditized. And when you have a 0:02:36.800 --> 0:02:40.560 commoditized point of view or the content is on original 0:02:41.080 --> 0:02:43.560 and you don't have a deep relationship with your audience, 0:02:43.639 --> 0:02:47.080 and those two things go together, it is hard to 0:02:47.120 --> 0:02:50.360 create a brand that can break through and resonate. And 0:02:50.400 --> 0:02:52.000 you know, I've seen it. I worked and I've worked 0:02:52.000 --> 0:02:53.840 in the internet for twenty years. So if you look 0:02:53.880 --> 0:02:56.919 at you know, why does someone go to Yahoo versus 0:02:56.960 --> 0:02:58.560 they go to a O Well versus you go to 0:02:58.639 --> 0:03:02.760 Huffington Post, versus go to Vox. When you're publishing, you know, 0:03:02.840 --> 0:03:06.239 a slightly different version of the same news story, you 0:03:06.360 --> 0:03:11.519 become completely undifferentiated. It's commoditized, right, So I think there 0:03:11.520 --> 0:03:14.880 were two. There are two main challenges in the media business, 0:03:15.120 --> 0:03:18.480 whether it's an Internet business or traditional business. One is 0:03:18.480 --> 0:03:21.640 the attrition in the digital space of advertising. Right the 0:03:21.680 --> 0:03:25.800 advent of the social platforms, they sucked a lot of 0:03:25.800 --> 0:03:27.680 the air out of the room in terms of traffic 0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:30.720 and engagement and time spent. They took a lot of 0:03:30.720 --> 0:03:33.239 the value. You know, if you were to ask someone 0:03:33.280 --> 0:03:35.920 at a major magazine publisher, you know, things that used 0:03:35.960 --> 0:03:38.680 to be valued at for a dollar are now valued 0:03:38.920 --> 0:03:41.960 at since and then the third piece of it is 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:45.360 that their businesses didn't diversify because the brands didn't grow. 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:48.360 If you can't find someone who wants to wear your 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:51.440 T shirt, your brand is going to struggle to have 0:03:51.480 --> 0:03:54.400 a different business model than an ad driven business model. 0:03:54.680 --> 0:03:57.400 And that's really been very key to our success, which 0:03:57.400 --> 0:03:59.880 is we have a very diverse business because we have 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:03.440 brands that people want to identify with, that they do 0:04:03.600 --> 0:04:07.360 identify with what they want to badge themselves with, and 0:04:07.600 --> 0:04:13.560 are relatable and ongoing and differentiated and not commoditized. But 0:04:13.640 --> 0:04:17.440 for all that relatability, as I was saying earlier, you 0:04:17.440 --> 0:04:19.960 guys have had some controversy. There's been a lot of 0:04:20.000 --> 0:04:24.760 criticism about everything from uh, sexism or harassment that has 0:04:24.880 --> 0:04:27.840 either been part of the content or the conduct of 0:04:27.839 --> 0:04:33.400 those following along on on social media. You know, is 0:04:33.400 --> 0:04:36.440 this a problem for your company or is it really 0:04:36.440 --> 0:04:38.240 actually just kind of part of the DNA of the 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:40.320 brand at this point. Yeah, it's a it's a good 0:04:40.360 --> 0:04:43.880 question of whether it's a feature or above each right, um, 0:04:44.080 --> 0:04:47.400 controversy isn't the intention of barstool sports. I think when 0:04:47.440 --> 0:04:51.400 you think about the controversy or people look to examples 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:54.400 of the controversy, those are mostly things that have happened 0:04:54.440 --> 0:04:56.719 in the past and are said by people who aren't 0:04:56.720 --> 0:05:02.240 active listeners or participants or readers or viewers of Barstool Sports. Um, 0:05:02.560 --> 0:05:06.080 so I would say the perception of controversy can be 0:05:06.160 --> 0:05:09.839 grossly exaggerated. That said, I don't think it hurts The 0:05:09.880 --> 0:05:13.559 controversy doesn't hurt us because it helps identify our base 0:05:14.200 --> 0:05:16.480 and it also, you know, there's often a lot of 0:05:16.560 --> 0:05:19.760 hypocrisy in that controversy and in the criticism of Barstool, 0:05:19.839 --> 0:05:25.680 So that a great example. We are a sexist, misogynistic company. 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:28.760 We're the only company in media with nearly an entire 0:05:28.960 --> 0:05:33.280 female c suite, So there's one. Two. We have more 0:05:33.279 --> 0:05:36.720 women on the radio, more women starring in content than 0:05:36.800 --> 0:05:40.160 you would find any sports media company proportionately to our size. 0:05:40.600 --> 0:05:42.880 So it's things like that where actually this is a 0:05:43.000 --> 0:05:48.600 very fascinating company. We are unafraid, we are unfiltered, which 0:05:48.640 --> 0:05:52.520 often puts us in the headlines for a variety of reasons. 0:05:52.560 --> 0:05:56.440 But it's that level of authenticity again, you know, to 0:05:56.560 --> 0:06:00.279 use that word that that makes us breakthrough and res Nate, 0:06:00.279 --> 0:06:04.799 We're not playing it's safe. We're not covering hockey or football, 0:06:05.080 --> 0:06:09.719 or entertainment or relationships or the headlines coming out of 0:06:09.760 --> 0:06:11.960 the Internet the way everybody else is, and we don't 0:06:11.960 --> 0:06:14.880 want to. But isn't that a double edged sword? Because 0:06:14.920 --> 0:06:19.279 on the one hand, frankly, controversy has earned media. You 0:06:19.320 --> 0:06:22.200 get publicity from that, and I think it also plays 0:06:22.240 --> 0:06:24.840 well with your brand. On the other hand, are you 0:06:24.880 --> 0:06:28.799 guys a controversy or two away from an advertiser backlash? 0:06:28.839 --> 0:06:31.239 That's always been the issue with all sorts of media 0:06:31.320 --> 0:06:34.800 operations I think of like from Perez Hilton to w 0:06:34.800 --> 0:06:38.839 w E. The bad boy image works to an extent 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:41.400 and then it doesn't. Yeah, I mean I think it's 0:06:41.400 --> 0:06:44.840 working like we're not. We're not a controversy away from 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:49.200 an advertiser backlash. Our brand. Advertiser business has grown, I 0:06:49.240 --> 0:06:54.760 think in the last two years, so the world is changing. 0:06:54.800 --> 0:06:58.599 How people perceive what what people perceive as valuable, what 0:06:58.760 --> 0:07:03.800 they perceive as real, what they perceive as resonating has 0:07:03.880 --> 0:07:07.880 changed dramatically. We live in a world where attention is 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:12.760 the most scarce and finite research resource, or or it's 0:07:12.800 --> 0:07:17.480 just it's precious and your and our ability to capture 0:07:17.720 --> 0:07:21.680 headlines and interest and to maintain engagement from our audience 0:07:22.320 --> 0:07:24.440 is what ultimately is going to make us an incredibly 0:07:24.440 --> 0:07:29.360 powerful vehicle for brands and an incredibly powerful vehicle for ourselves. 0:07:29.400 --> 0:07:33.240 And the brands are there, there's no question. And podcast 0:07:33.240 --> 0:07:35.960 seem to be a big part of that right now, 0:07:36.080 --> 0:07:40.600 several dozen podcasts in play that are giving you about 0:07:40.640 --> 0:07:42.680 a third of the company's revenue. That's right. Yeah, so 0:07:42.720 --> 0:07:46.440 we love podcasting in a barstol Sports started as a newspaper, uh. 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:50.040 It then evolved into a blog. From the blog, we 0:07:50.160 --> 0:07:53.840 moved into podcasting and really live video. And when you 0:07:53.840 --> 0:07:57.240 think about podcasts, right, podcasting is really a natural extension 0:07:57.280 --> 0:07:59.920 of blogging. It's one person or a few people's point 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:04.440 of you. It's a conversation. It's first person thought. It's 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:07.560 on it's not linear. It can be long, it can 0:08:07.600 --> 0:08:11.840 be sure, it can look and sound like anything. We 0:08:12.040 --> 0:08:15.920 like that as a medium. I get how having the 0:08:16.000 --> 0:08:20.160 kind of voices you have works well for podcasting. I'm 0:08:20.200 --> 0:08:22.560 curious about how you approach it as a business. You 0:08:22.960 --> 0:08:26.480 on Twitter recently went on a large rant, interesting rant 0:08:27.120 --> 0:08:31.440 where you kind of acknowledged the growth opportunity that podcasts 0:08:31.560 --> 0:08:34.720 represent right now, but also sort of the perils of 0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:38.760 over programmatic. Yeah, I look like I've been in the 0:08:38.800 --> 0:08:43.200 Internet since you were at a O L that I 0:08:43.240 --> 0:08:45.920 was at it. I started my career fidelity investments, buying 0:08:46.440 --> 0:08:49.800 the Internet advertising, and then you know, I went to Microsoft, 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:52.120 I worked at Yahoo, I worked at A well as 0:08:52.160 --> 0:08:53.960 part of the demand media I p O like I 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:58.880 have seen. I've seen the big people, big players in 0:08:58.920 --> 0:09:02.600 the business overlap twenty years, and we screwed up a 0:09:02.640 --> 0:09:06.200 lot of things about digital media. It was a medium 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:07.840 I mean, I don't know if you remember, but where 0:09:07.880 --> 0:09:12.760 there was whizz bang pop ups, you know, unreadable content right, 0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:15.400 unreadable content. You felt like you were going to get 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:19.040 a virus from going to a website. So you know, 0:09:19.120 --> 0:09:23.640 we over monetized, right, We over monetized. We became too 0:09:23.679 --> 0:09:28.000 smart and cute with programmatic and with s c O 0:09:28.240 --> 0:09:33.320 and s c M. And the glory of podcasting is 0:09:33.360 --> 0:09:36.400 that it's actually a very intimate medium. There is a 0:09:36.600 --> 0:09:39.760 there is a true you're in somebody's ears, and there 0:09:39.880 --> 0:09:42.439 is a very intimate relationship. And you know this from 0:09:42.480 --> 0:09:46.360 having a podcast between what you have to say the 0:09:46.400 --> 0:09:49.800 people you interview, the conversations you're having and your audience. 0:09:50.720 --> 0:09:55.840 When you put an AD that's prerecorded, it's dynamically inserted, 0:09:56.000 --> 0:09:58.840 it's targeted to me as a consumer. When you slap 0:09:58.960 --> 0:10:02.680 that in the middle of it zero context, the probability 0:10:02.720 --> 0:10:05.480 that that ad is going to get skipped is extremely high. 0:10:05.840 --> 0:10:08.440 And that's exactly what happened with banner ads, right they 0:10:08.440 --> 0:10:12.240 became wallpaper. Who looks at a banner ad anymore? Um So, 0:10:12.320 --> 0:10:14.760 how do we, at this stage of the game prevent 0:10:14.880 --> 0:10:18.320 podcast from falling down? That? I think the biggest thing 0:10:18.440 --> 0:10:20.400 is that, you know, we've made a statement we are 0:10:20.440 --> 0:10:23.240 sticking to host read, so we are going to integrate 0:10:23.360 --> 0:10:26.720 brands into our content and into our conversations. Right, you 0:10:26.760 --> 0:10:30.520 started this conversation by mentioning Pink Whitneys, which is, you know, 0:10:30.679 --> 0:10:33.760 our flavored vodka that we have with New Amsterdam Vodka 0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:36.600 that came out of an ad read. And it came 0:10:36.600 --> 0:10:38.560 out of an ad read because it was a story 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:42.200 by one of our hosts about how he drinks his vodka. 0:10:42.600 --> 0:10:45.480 And when you make an ad part of a content 0:10:45.559 --> 0:10:49.640 experience and a brand part of a content experience, you know, 0:10:49.679 --> 0:10:52.680 it's like it's almost evolving the very definition of advertising 0:10:52.720 --> 0:10:56.840 to make it content that's what will perform. And so, 0:10:57.000 --> 0:10:59.440 you know, I think the risk of podcasting is a 0:10:59.480 --> 0:11:03.440 couple of things. One is from a content creator perspective 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:07.320 and a content create a content perspective. You're going to 0:11:07.400 --> 0:11:13.680 see publishers treat this like video, whereby people will say, hey, 0:11:13.720 --> 0:11:16.760 we have a slate of new, built of sold podcasts 0:11:16.760 --> 0:11:19.640 that are about to launch. It's not going to work 0:11:19.760 --> 0:11:23.600 because podcasting is really still at this stage of performance medium. 0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:26.880 So anyone can have a brilliant idea for a podcast. 0:11:26.920 --> 0:11:30.080 There's seven thousand podcasts right now in the world, so 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:33.120 there's a huge long tail. There's a huge glut of 0:11:33.160 --> 0:11:36.000 content in podcasting. No one really cares if you have 0:11:36.040 --> 0:11:38.280 a bunch of built of sold concepts, and there's no 0:11:38.360 --> 0:11:40.720 assurance that it's going to work for an advertiser. So 0:11:40.720 --> 0:11:42.880 so I see that as something that is going to 0:11:43.000 --> 0:11:47.120 fail and not work in podcasting. The second piece is 0:11:47.280 --> 0:11:49.840 that in order to harness a long tail, just like 0:11:49.920 --> 0:11:53.559 the Internet, the ad tech folks and the kind of 0:11:53.600 --> 0:11:58.719 performance driven scale marketing people of the Internet will try 0:11:58.800 --> 0:12:02.640 to create uniformity and they'll try to insert you know, 0:12:02.800 --> 0:12:07.880 pre produced highly scaled, scalable, dynamic ads that don't require humans. 0:12:08.240 --> 0:12:10.520 And I understand that I've been in those businesses. I've 0:12:10.520 --> 0:12:13.880 helped build those businesses. I think that's counter to the 0:12:13.920 --> 0:12:18.040 type of medium that podcasting is right now. But isn't 0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:20.280 it possible though, that if you don't play that game, 0:12:20.320 --> 0:12:23.480 you're not able to scale your business because you're doing 0:12:23.520 --> 0:12:25.880 all this customized stuff. No, because I don't think it's 0:12:25.880 --> 0:12:29.800 actually that custom and you'll maintain premium. See what will 0:12:29.840 --> 0:12:33.079 happen is as the ad performance decreases, as the ad 0:12:33.160 --> 0:12:38.000 skip rate increases, it's going to actually put price pressure downward, 0:12:38.080 --> 0:12:41.400 price pressure pressure on the advertising, not upward price pressure. 0:12:41.760 --> 0:12:43.400 Right when you look, if you asked anyone in the 0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:47.040 music industry, or really any performance advertiser what the single 0:12:47.080 --> 0:12:49.360 most important thing is, they'll tell you it's radio play 0:12:50.200 --> 0:12:53.360 because the host listener relationship is so important. And when 0:12:53.400 --> 0:12:57.000 you have a compelling host endorse a compelling product, the 0:12:57.200 --> 0:12:59.680 r O I on that will beat any Internet product 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:02.120 and the time, and I think the same is true 0:13:02.160 --> 0:13:05.400 in podcasting. So I get why you're bullish there. Here's 0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:08.960 what I don't get. Um we go back a few years, 0:13:09.000 --> 0:13:12.959 you guys had sort of a notorious flirtation with ESPN. Yes, 0:13:13.080 --> 0:13:15.240 we had a one night stand. One night stand literally 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:19.200 in terms of a one episode show. Um, but why 0:13:19.280 --> 0:13:22.440 aren't okay? That was two years ago. If your brand 0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:25.079 is as hot as it is now, where's the big 0:13:25.200 --> 0:13:29.080 video play? Where is the the O T T brand? 0:13:29.280 --> 0:13:34.280 Where is producing for other brands that don't necessarily give 0:13:34.320 --> 0:13:37.480 you a show, but hey, you create a documentary from them? 0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:40.440 What's the story there? We have our own O T 0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:47.000 platforms and that is so Apple TV, Roku, Amazon YouTube. 0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:50.360 We are on Snapchat. We have two of the top 0:13:50.440 --> 0:13:53.120 five shows on Snapchat, where the number one streaming channel 0:13:53.120 --> 0:13:56.440 on Serious x M. We are the fastest growing sports 0:13:56.520 --> 0:14:00.360 brand on TikTok. So we are building our our own 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:04.720 real estate on all different types of platforms audio platforms, 0:14:04.800 --> 0:14:09.840 social platforms, video platforms. What I believe is it's that 0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:13.000 organic real estate that we can build ourselves, which is 0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:15.400 the best place for our content. We have done an 0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:19.040 incredible documentary on the history of Barstool Sports, really centered 0:14:19.080 --> 0:14:22.280 around tap Portnoy, the founder. We put that into our 0:14:22.320 --> 0:14:26.320 subscription product called Gold. So you know what I learned 0:14:26.360 --> 0:14:32.240 from the ESPN experience and really linear television experiences. You know, one, 0:14:32.520 --> 0:14:36.800 it's very appealing to get the validation to be on 0:14:36.880 --> 0:14:40.800 someone else's network. That was exhilarating for us when we 0:14:40.880 --> 0:14:44.920 did the rundown on Comedy Central, which was in at 0:14:44.920 --> 0:14:49.240 the Super Bowl in that was an incredible experience. We 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:53.960 had trucks and big production and it was with bright lights, 0:14:54.040 --> 0:14:57.960 and we learned the television format. But what you saw 0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:01.560 was that an entire company dedicated all of its time 0:15:01.760 --> 0:15:07.000 to one twenty eight minute production versus spending all of 0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:11.840 its time building a hundred productions and running those productions 0:15:11.880 --> 0:15:14.840 on its own channels. And so, you know, we will 0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:18.280 do documentaries. We have a documentary, we have O T 0:15:18.280 --> 0:15:21.360 T platforms. We are very deeply invested in video. That's 0:15:21.360 --> 0:15:23.200 been our single biggest pivot, i would say, in the 0:15:23.280 --> 0:15:26.800 last twenty four months. But you're not going to see 0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:29.480 us give those to other people to build audiences on 0:15:29.520 --> 0:15:32.360 their network. You're going to see them where you're going 0:15:32.400 --> 0:15:35.560 to see us put it on our own platforms, build audiences, 0:15:36.120 --> 0:15:39.040 monetize those directly, which is kind of a departure from 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:41.360 what a lot of companies are doing at their work. Yeah, 0:15:41.400 --> 0:15:44.400 it's like everybody becomes when you can't bring people to 0:15:44.480 --> 0:15:47.040 your own network and you need a more lucrative way 0:15:47.120 --> 0:15:50.320 to make content, you sell content to someone else. Right, 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:53.960 So look at you know, Go ninety, you know, remember 0:15:53.960 --> 0:15:57.160 the Go ninety deals or GO ninety doled out you know, 0:15:57.440 --> 0:16:01.840 very very very lucrative checks to publishers, and then those 0:16:01.880 --> 0:16:04.760 publishers spent all of their time making content for Go 0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:08.240 nine d that, as it turns out, nobody saw. And 0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:11.080 the question is doesn't really matter. Did the check from 0:16:11.160 --> 0:16:13.800 Go ninety is that more important to the business or 0:16:13.880 --> 0:16:16.320 is it the eyeballs on the content that was created? 0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:19.240 And at Barstool Sports, it's the eyes on the content 0:16:19.320 --> 0:16:23.000 that was created, not the check. So that's why I'm 0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:26.480 building a business that's very diverse from a monetization perspective 0:16:26.600 --> 0:16:29.640 and not does not have dependency on a single form 0:16:29.680 --> 0:16:32.640 of revenue, so that I can keep our eyes on 0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:35.120 what's most important, which is our content and our fans. 0:16:35.680 --> 0:16:38.440 And of course, as you mentioned, you are active across 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:41.680 a lot of different platforms. But when I was interested 0:16:41.760 --> 0:16:44.840 to read recently was one of these platforms, and now 0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:49.640 is Telegram, which to my you know, a little background, 0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:52.560 And if I'm getting this wrong, explain it differently. But 0:16:53.000 --> 0:16:57.560 the content issues you were running into on platforms like Instagram, 0:16:57.720 --> 0:17:01.400 or perhaps there was some sort of violence in particular footage. Um, 0:17:01.440 --> 0:17:05.040 now if you're able to go on Telegram where there's 0:17:05.080 --> 0:17:08.800 no kind of regulation of the content, But is there monetization? 0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:11.840 They're like, what is? What is? Yeah? I believe that 0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:15.480 we want to be in every place where our audiences 0:17:16.440 --> 0:17:18.800 and if you look at the broadest sense, we have 0:17:18.880 --> 0:17:21.680 people from twelve years of age who are following us 0:17:21.680 --> 0:17:26.119 on Instagram, They're watching our pizza reviews religiously. They follow 0:17:26.200 --> 0:17:28.959 us on Twitter or on TikTok up to you know, 0:17:29.080 --> 0:17:31.680 sixty year old guys reading the blog who are from 0:17:31.680 --> 0:17:34.640 Boston and lived you know, lived in Boston when Da've 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:39.760 created the paper. We're really platform agnostic. We ultimately want 0:17:39.760 --> 0:17:42.560 to connect with our fans in a medium that lets 0:17:42.640 --> 0:17:44.600 us express ourselves in a way that we can be 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:47.080 as funny as possible, or we can bring our satire 0:17:47.200 --> 0:17:49.159 to life and our humor and our point of view 0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:52.000 to bear. But can you monetize there? But I'm not 0:17:52.040 --> 0:17:54.760 worried about the monetization. So I'll give you an example 0:17:54.880 --> 0:17:59.760 on Instagram, since you brings that up. Instagram and Facebook 0:17:59.800 --> 0:18:04.680 are continually defining and tweaking their quote unquote community guidelines, 0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:07.480 which is their prerogative, and I have total and utmost 0:18:07.520 --> 0:18:10.960 respect for that. It's been long said that it's very 0:18:10.960 --> 0:18:15.880 difficult to understand what those guidelines are, how and when 0:18:15.920 --> 0:18:20.080 they change, because they change often, and to mitigate and 0:18:20.160 --> 0:18:24.240 manage that as a publisher. So what what's Facebook prioritizing 0:18:24.240 --> 0:18:27.320 in its feed? That's been a topic for ten years, right, 0:18:27.800 --> 0:18:32.600 what's Instagram value in its feed? What's happening is Facebook 0:18:32.600 --> 0:18:37.200 and Instagram or are becoming closer together. Two is that 0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:41.560 they are also continually evolving and I think tightening those 0:18:41.600 --> 0:18:45.439 community guidelines. We had a video of a girl riding 0:18:45.440 --> 0:18:48.399 a bike and the bike hit a stairs and the 0:18:48.840 --> 0:18:54.560 girl tumbled off the bike, and Instagram ultimately didn't like 0:18:54.640 --> 0:18:57.240 that video because the girl could have gotten hurt. She 0:18:57.280 --> 0:18:59.960 didn't get hurt, she was fine, she lived, she wasn't 0:19:00.200 --> 0:19:02.840 substantially harm, but they don't like that there's a risk 0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:06.440 that she could have gotten hurt. A video like that 0:19:06.600 --> 0:19:09.560 will get millions and millions and millions of views because 0:19:09.560 --> 0:19:12.800 that video is you know, it's like America's home videos, right, 0:19:12.880 --> 0:19:16.200 it's the allure of God. What happened in this video 0:19:16.240 --> 0:19:19.840 is what makes it ultimately compelling. We want to respect 0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:22.400 what's happening on Instagram, so we won't put that video 0:19:22.440 --> 0:19:25.840 on Instagram. But ultimately, if you look at our eighteen 0:19:25.880 --> 0:19:28.920 to twenty four year old audience, they love videos like that. 0:19:29.320 --> 0:19:31.360 So those are the type of videos that we will 0:19:31.400 --> 0:19:35.320 put on Telegram because our audience is there. They're looking 0:19:35.359 --> 0:19:38.399 for content that's entertaining, and we want to deliver that 0:19:38.480 --> 0:19:42.199 to them. Got it um. What was also interesting is 0:19:42.240 --> 0:19:46.720 you guys have been experimenting recently with NASCAR, a presence 0:19:46.880 --> 0:19:50.119 there that perhaps you weren't covering racing all. Yeah, we 0:19:50.160 --> 0:19:53.200 didn't know anything about racing, right, and now all of 0:19:53.240 --> 0:19:56.000 a sudden, let's be clear, it's a sponsored deal. They're 0:19:56.080 --> 0:19:59.400 pain No, well they are and they aren't. So we 0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:04.359 what started as a sponsorship from NASCAR and Dave Portnoy, 0:20:04.400 --> 0:20:08.359 the founder of Barstool Sports. Dave Portnoy went down to Daytona, 0:20:08.800 --> 0:20:11.920 had never been to a NASCAR race, didn't follow NASCAR race, 0:20:12.520 --> 0:20:15.199 didn't follow NASCAR, probably had some of the misperceptions of 0:20:15.280 --> 0:20:17.520 NASCAR fans that are very common for people who don't 0:20:17.520 --> 0:20:22.000 watch NASCAR. We had I think ten personalities down there. 0:20:22.080 --> 0:20:24.400 We did a live show, We set up in the 0:20:24.400 --> 0:20:29.560 fan zone and had an awesome experience. The NASCAR people 0:20:29.640 --> 0:20:35.159 could not have been more open, more welcoming. We got 0:20:35.240 --> 0:20:38.199 so much access and we're able to, you know, not 0:20:38.280 --> 0:20:40.840 only engage with the drivers, but the racing teams and 0:20:40.880 --> 0:20:44.719 the track and the you know, the pace car and everything. Uh. 0:20:44.760 --> 0:20:47.880 We had an incredible experience. We carried that through several races, 0:20:48.720 --> 0:20:52.840 and the last two races, which were Talladega and Las Vegas, 0:20:53.080 --> 0:20:56.520 we sponsored a driver. So not out of our sponsorship 0:20:56.560 --> 0:20:59.800 with NASCAR, but from bar Stool Sports, we decided that 0:20:59.840 --> 0:21:03.320 we wanted to sponsor a racer, Matt Di benedetto car 0:21:03.400 --> 0:21:07.560 number five. We branded one is Barstool Sports with all 0:21:07.600 --> 0:21:09.919 of our podcasts, and then that was in Las Vegas, 0:21:09.920 --> 0:21:13.080 and then in Talladega we created a car around one 0:21:13.080 --> 0:21:17.320 Byte pizza we sold merch. Was a very deep, integrated 0:21:17.320 --> 0:21:22.040 partnership with the driving team. NASCAR loves it. The Talladega 0:21:22.119 --> 0:21:26.199 race was the single largest streamed race in history, mostly 0:21:26.200 --> 0:21:29.000 because we streamed it live on nearly We talked about 0:21:29.000 --> 0:21:31.000 watched it streaming live and talked about it on every 0:21:31.040 --> 0:21:33.760 single channel that we have. So it's a good example 0:21:33.920 --> 0:21:38.639 of sports that are looking to bring new audience and 0:21:38.720 --> 0:21:41.879 new eyeballs to that sport are coming to Barstool Sports 0:21:41.920 --> 0:21:44.240 to help them do that because we have such a 0:21:44.320 --> 0:21:48.480 plug into young audiences and our engagement with those audiences 0:21:48.560 --> 0:21:51.440 is off the charts. The second thing you're seeing happening 0:21:51.440 --> 0:21:53.760 with Barstool, which is different than you would find with 0:21:53.840 --> 0:21:57.000 a Turner or Fox or an ESPN, is that we 0:21:57.080 --> 0:22:00.760 are a young, nimble company. So when we get behind 0:22:00.880 --> 0:22:04.000 something we didn't have on a strategy deck that we 0:22:04.000 --> 0:22:07.240 were going to sponsor a race, team literally came up, 0:22:07.560 --> 0:22:09.960 you know, came up. We decided in a week. In 0:22:10.040 --> 0:22:12.159 two weeks, we have the car wrapped, in two and 0:22:12.160 --> 0:22:14.800 a half weeks, we had the merch designed, and three 0:22:14.800 --> 0:22:18.000 weeks later we were on the track. So we tend 0:22:18.119 --> 0:22:21.160 to get behind the things that we find passion around, 0:22:21.200 --> 0:22:23.880 whether it's football, whether it's hockey, whether it's golf, whether 0:22:23.920 --> 0:22:27.240 it's entertainment, or whether it's Nascar, uh and we get 0:22:27.240 --> 0:22:28.880 behind those things in a big way in a way 0:22:28.920 --> 0:22:31.440 that's creative and ultimately in a way that's a creative 0:22:31.520 --> 0:22:34.800 to the experience we're trying to create for our fans. 0:22:34.800 --> 0:22:37.760 So in this case, being able to see you know, 0:22:37.880 --> 0:22:42.200 a bar stool car on Fox Racing in a NASCAR 0:22:42.280 --> 0:22:45.560 racer on NBC in the case of Talladega was incredible. 0:22:45.680 --> 0:22:49.120 So we're very three sixty to use a marketing word 0:22:49.160 --> 0:22:53.640 around that, But ultimately it's just very organic whereby when 0:22:53.640 --> 0:22:56.400 we get behind things and find them interesting and compelling, 0:22:56.480 --> 0:22:59.439 our fans tend to follow and we tend to go 0:22:59.520 --> 0:23:01.720 all in. Is that a sign of things to come 0:23:01.720 --> 0:23:06.480 in terms of your relationships with various leagues that you definitely, Yeah, definitely, 0:23:06.600 --> 0:23:08.560 maybe look at we have an incredible partnership with the 0:23:08.640 --> 0:23:10.919 U s g A. So we've done You've had a 0:23:10.960 --> 0:23:15.960 similar experience in golf around US Open. Uh We two 0:23:16.040 --> 0:23:20.479 years ago Um Dave and a host our our golf 0:23:20.520 --> 0:23:23.199 podcast which is called four Play. They went and they 0:23:23.240 --> 0:23:26.600 had a Mulligan challenge, which was Dave's hypothesis was that 0:23:26.680 --> 0:23:28.800 he could win the win the US Open if he 0:23:28.800 --> 0:23:32.520