1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,880 Speaker 1: Did you know a recent law can leave your personal 2 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 1: data exposed online for anybody to find. If you've turned 3 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:10,200 Speaker 1: on the news lately, you know the internet has created 4 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 1: a dangerous new world. It's time you take back the 5 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 1: power by using a new website called truth Finder. Have 6 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:20,120 Speaker 1: you been issued a speeding ticket, received a lean from 7 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:23,520 Speaker 1: the I R S? Did you forget about embarrassing social 8 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: media profile? That info may already be online. Truth Finder 9 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:31,840 Speaker 1: can help you find it. Truth Finder searches millions of 10 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:36,519 Speaker 1: public records, assembling the data together in one report. Members 11 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:39,840 Speaker 1: get unlimited searches, so you can also look up those 12 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 1: close to you and make sure they're not hiding something. 13 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:47,480 Speaker 1: Visit truth finder dot com, slash Nancy, enter your own name. 14 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 1: Get started Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius x 15 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 1: M Triumph Channel one two. The whole family gets together, 16 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 1: including extended family members and relatives, to go on an 17 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 1: awesome cruise, a cruise that sets out to Alaska and 18 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 1: the theme is a murder mystery cruise and the whole 19 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 1: family is getting into it when suddenly it turns all 20 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 1: to real. I mean, you see, Grace, this is crime Stories. 21 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:37,120 Speaker 1: I'm talking about a cruise line a luxury cruise line 22 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:43,320 Speaker 1: and a happy family celebrating an anniversary. It's the Princess 23 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:48,559 Speaker 1: Cruise Line, known for its luxurious state rooms and over 24 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 1: the top meals. But this Alaskan cruise turns deadly when 25 00:01:53,840 --> 00:02:00,480 Speaker 1: a mom of three is found brutally bludgeoned dead. What happened? 26 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 1: Joining Me Roberts Crime Stories investigative reporter Chuck, Let's start 27 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 1: at the beginning. Tell me about it. Well. They leave 28 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 1: Seattle bound for the coast of Alaska, and two days later, 29 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 1: around nine o'clock, a loud fight is heard from room 30 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:19,240 Speaker 1: d S, in fact, so loud that people showering two 31 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:25,080 Speaker 1: decks above could hear the argument. Finally, somebody intervenes, knocks 32 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:28,959 Speaker 1: on the door, and stumbles across a murder and apparently 33 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:33,519 Speaker 1: Christie uh Manzanari's has been blood in several times. There's 34 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:37,800 Speaker 1: blood everywhere in the room, and her husband, Kenneth, according 35 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 1: to the witness, is trying to drag her out to 36 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 1: the valot wa wait a minute, hold on joining me. 37 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:50,519 Speaker 1: In addition to Chuck Roberts is Vincent Hill, private investigator 38 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:56,919 Speaker 1: Troy Slayton, high profile l A defense lawyer, Dr Carol Lieberman, 39 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 1: L a forensic psychiatrist and author of Lions, Tigers and Terrorists, 40 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 1: Oh My on Amazon, Jackie Howard here in the studio, 41 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 1: and Alan Deuke joining me from l A. Troy Slayton. 42 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 1: Did you hear that the husband is saying dragging the 43 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 1: wife Christie Man's and Era's by her ankles. They're both 44 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 1: covered in blood, she's dead, dragging her to try and 45 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 1: throw her off the balcony. I think that's a bit 46 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 1: of a stretch. We don't know why he was trying 47 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 1: to move the body. To say that she was trying 48 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 1: to toss her overboard. We have no information relating to that. 49 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 1: In fact, all by all accounts, they had no history 50 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 1: of domestic violence at all. There was no history. Okay, 51 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 1: that that's a thought. That is a thought, Alan Duke, 52 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 1: you speak for every man today. Can you think of 53 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 1: another reason he's dragged, bugging his wife's bloody body toward 54 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 1: the balcony, out of their stateroom and toward a balcony. No, 55 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: it's not a good look, especially especially when she ends 56 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 1: up dead. Witnesses say the husband grabbed Christie's body by 57 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 1: the ankles and quote drags her toward the balcony and 58 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 1: then the witness intervenes, grabbing another part of her body 59 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:29,719 Speaker 1: to pull her back into the cabin, and when asked 60 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: by witnesses what happened, he responds, and I quote, wait 61 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 1: for it. She wouldn't stop laughing at me. Dr Carol Lieberman. 62 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 1: I'd be dead five times over if I was slaughtered 63 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 1: every time I laughed at my husband. That's the one 64 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 1: thing that's kept us together all these years, is we 65 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 1: laugh all the time. Yes, laughter does help a relationship 66 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 1: very much. You know, if he apparently was the husband 67 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 1: was apparently very belligerent at dinner and it um he 68 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 1: may well have been drinking, you know, that probably added 69 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:11,720 Speaker 1: to it. But it does when a wife, especially there 70 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 1: were high school sweethearts, when a wife, when a woman, um, 71 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:17,360 Speaker 1: well what a wife says, I'm I want to get 72 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:19,719 Speaker 1: a divorce. If that was like a surprise, or we 73 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:23,160 Speaker 1: don't know, maybe there was domestic violence going on before 74 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:25,600 Speaker 1: this and this was just sort of the cumbination of it. 75 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 1: But when a man hears that a woman is going 76 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 1: to abandon him, you know, especially if it's his wife 77 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 1: or a relationship that's been a long time, that can 78 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:39,360 Speaker 1: trigger a violent reactions. I don't I don't really think 79 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 1: in my world claiming that what the wife said causes 80 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:50,719 Speaker 1: a murder. I mean that was pounded into me when 81 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 1: I volunteered at the Battered Women's Center for so many 82 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:57,479 Speaker 1: years on the hotline. Because you say something or laugh 83 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:03,040 Speaker 1: or whatever sort of tacos versus enchiladas is not a 84 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 1: reason for a beating, a battery, much less a murder. Um. 85 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:11,719 Speaker 1: Troy Slayton is looking bad for him right now. Take 86 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:14,800 Speaker 1: a listen to what passengers say they're on the Princess Cruise. 87 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 1: Whoever was talking was pretty scared because their voice was shaking. 88 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 1: Ruby Plato was with her husband when she heard an 89 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 1: announcement over the intercom said it was a domestic altercation 90 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: came apparent last night. Did something serious have happened? But 91 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 1: we didn't know how serious. One of the listens from 92 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 1: that room came running out, calling for help that her 93 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 1: parents had been in a fight. Um. She founded pretty desperate, 94 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:39,360 Speaker 1: but um, the crew came up as quickly as they could. Well, 95 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:41,839 Speaker 1: at first the crew actually thought it was part of 96 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 1: a staged murder mystery Shenanigan because that evening, Vincent Hill 97 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:51,960 Speaker 1: Private Investigator they were having a murder mystery motif. So 98 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:55,920 Speaker 1: when the crew and passengers saw a bloody body lying there, 99 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 1: at first they thought it was a gag. Vincent that big. 100 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 1: The question, was this perfectly planned on his part to 101 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:06,600 Speaker 1: make it look like something so that he possibly could 102 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 1: have gotten away with it. The cruise ship hosting a 103 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 1: murder mystery themed dinner the night of the incident, and 104 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:15,840 Speaker 1: again at first they all fought thought that the fight 105 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:20,559 Speaker 1: and the murder was fake, a hoax of some sort. 106 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 1: Everyone was confused about what had really happened. The cruise 107 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 1: ship was immediately diverted to Juno. Federal investigators board the 108 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 1: Emerald Princess, one of the three and the top of 109 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 1: the line of the Princess cruise ships. This is what 110 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 1: I've learned. I've researched it over and over. This occurred 111 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 1: on the high seas, and there is a whole body 112 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 1: of admiralty or mirrortime law. This occurred about seven miles 113 00:07:51,800 --> 00:08:00,120 Speaker 1: away from Forester Island, Alaska, but Alaska law does not 114 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 1: apply that far out in the water. Federal law it's 115 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 1: still in U S jurisdiction, so it falls under US 116 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 1: federal law. Now, Alaska has a death penalty as does 117 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 1: the federal government, Troy Slayton, this is going to be 118 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 1: governed by US federal law, that's correct. If that's why. 119 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 1: Federal prosecutors are the prosecuting agency here, and they have 120 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 1: already stated that they are not seeking the death penalty 121 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:43,840 Speaker 1: in this case. Although that is in their toolbox, they 122 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 1: don't think that it's appropriate in this case. And if 123 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 1: the case was so cut and dry as you and 124 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:53,320 Speaker 1: the others would like to make it seem, then why 125 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:56,680 Speaker 1: would the defense in this case be filing what's called 126 00:08:56,720 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 1: a bill of particulars saying that the indictment doesn't give 127 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 1: enough information, that the government isn't turning over enough information 128 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 1: for the defense to be able to know what it 129 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:11,200 Speaker 1: is that they have to defend. Again. Why because defense 130 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 1: lawyers file every motion known to man uh to delay 131 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 1: the trial. Because every day of delay is a better 132 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 1: shot and a not guilty. That's why. But I can 133 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:29,320 Speaker 1: tell you this, their community back home shocked. Listen to 134 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 1: Nicole Bextrom. For us, it's a weekend for them is 135 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 1: the rest of their lives to find out that it 136 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 1: was her shock. That is Nicole Beckstrom, a former neighbor, shocked, 137 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 1: this was supposed to be a happy and festive trip 138 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 1: to celebrate an anniversary with extended family. Instead, it went 139 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:54,359 Speaker 1: horribly sideways. A little girl comes running from the room, 140 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 1: calling out for help that her parents had been in 141 00:09:56,679 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 1: an argument. The little child desperate. It was there, little 142 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 1: girl crying and sobbing. They found her over her mom's body. 143 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 1: If you see a shot of Christie manson Are, she's 144 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: absolutely gorgeous, long brunette hair, big brown eyes. She looks 145 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:23,079 Speaker 1: like she's a workout enthusiast, a successful realtor at Southby's. 146 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 1: You can find videos of her that I looked at 147 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:31,840 Speaker 1: online where she's posting of her selling homes and describing homes, 148 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 1: a lot of photos with her family, and she's out 149 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:40,320 Speaker 1: on a luxury cruise. You'd never think of something like this, 150 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:43,960 Speaker 1: you know, Alan, You know, I've taken the children, uh 151 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 1: David not onto Disney cruises and they were so awesome 152 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:53,359 Speaker 1: and you get into the spirit of the cruise. We 153 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:57,080 Speaker 1: we did everything there was to do, and it's like 154 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:02,200 Speaker 1: one big, happy family. Everybody is on the ship together, 155 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:06,320 Speaker 1: You're having fun, you all have dinner together. You see 156 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 1: the same people at the pools, and I remember there 157 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 1: was this one thing it was called the well the 158 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 1: twins call it the octanot or something like that. It 159 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 1: was the aqua duck get at Disney, Daffy Duck. Who's 160 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 1: the other one, Daffy duck and um yeah right, no, no, 161 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:31,080 Speaker 1: there's the there's a happy duck in the angry duck. No, Alan, 162 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:36,720 Speaker 1: who is it? There's Daffy Duck and Donald Duck. Anyway, 163 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 1: this thing was called the Awkward Duck. Okay, yes, and 164 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 1: I most people saw me totally soaking wet at all 165 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 1: times because we rode the aqua duck around the top 166 00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 1: of that Disney cruise ship. I know, two hundred times, 167 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:56,200 Speaker 1: over and over and over. It's like a flume ride. Okay, 168 00:11:56,280 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 1: so you're you're with this group of people for four 169 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:05,320 Speaker 1: or sevent ten days and then to suddenly see a 170 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 1: bloody body. Alan, I think that's why people were so shocked. 171 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 1: It is a shocking thing, Like I said, not a 172 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:15,560 Speaker 1: good look. Wait that's your comment. It's a shocking thing, 173 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 1: Chuck Roberts, Crime Stories, investigative reporter, police help, Alan, Yeah, 174 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 1: it's more than shocking. It's uh. It was unsettling in 175 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 1: many respects. In fact that the entire people had to 176 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 1: stay on board for several days. Uh. The FBI interviewed 177 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 1: more than two hundred people, so it was it was 178 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:38,319 Speaker 1: certainly ended. The vibe on that. I'm not worried about 179 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 1: the vibe. What is wrong with you, guys? We're talking 180 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:46,520 Speaker 1: about a murdered mom, three children, three daughters, one daughter 181 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 1: hovering over her mother's body. I don't give a flying 182 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 1: fig if people had to sit on the boat for 183 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:55,760 Speaker 1: two days to get interviews. That was directed at you. 184 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 1: That anger was directed at you, Chuck Roberts by the 185 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 1: all right, I understood. Uh, tell me what more do 186 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 1: we are? I'll try to invent a Jackie for a 187 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 1: few moments. The discovery motion filed by Kenneth Montoniras's attorney 188 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 1: is a little interesting rich curtain of the attorney said 189 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 1: that the attack involved only bare hands and that it 190 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 1: was not premeditated, though he is charged with first degree murder, 191 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:22,559 Speaker 1: which would imply there was the state or the government 192 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:27,320 Speaker 1: has premeditation evidence. He demanded to know why the theory 193 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 1: of the crime has not been revealed, uh, and that 194 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 1: request was denied. Apparently the husband, thirty nine years old, 195 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 1: Kenneth Muns and Arras h no criminal record filed for 196 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:45,120 Speaker 1: bankruptcy in he was a bail bondsman, an assistant manager 197 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 1: at a Walgreens, and an insurance company employed. Apparently she 198 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 1: was the breadwinner in the family. She was a very 199 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 1: successful real estate agent. So that's the background of the couple. 200 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 1: But there was there was no uh, no evidence, no 201 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 1: no record of domestic violence, and he has no criminal 202 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:04,960 Speaker 1: record in the state of Utah. I didn't know the 203 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 1: part about him being a bill bondsman and that she 204 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:12,320 Speaker 1: was the breadwinner. And hold on, I hear Vincent Hill 205 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:14,200 Speaker 1: chomping at the bit jump in Vincent. One of the 206 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 1: things that's really important to remember. Everyone keeps saying this 207 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 1: husband had no criminal history, But I've worked enough domestic 208 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 1: violence cases to know those go on to report it. 209 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 1: So just because it looked good on the outside to 210 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 1: everyone doesn't mean it was good on the inside. And 211 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 1: I just find it hard to believe that he went 212 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 1: directly to murder and there wasn't some type of history 213 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 1: there between that couple. You know, doctor Carroll Lieberman, forensic 214 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 1: psychiatrists and author Dr Carroll and I agree, what with 215 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 1: both my parents working and that was the dynamic, and 216 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:50,600 Speaker 1: that that was just the norm for me. But apparently 217 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 1: in some marriages or relationships, they they role reversal, so 218 00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 1: to speak, is really too much for them to take, 219 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:05,160 Speaker 1: specifically the man, when the wife ends up being the 220 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: major breadwinner. I mean, we were so happy, you know 221 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 1: that my mom and dad were both working to to 222 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 1: make ends meet. We we never even thought twice about it. 223 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 1: And my my grandmother's work. My grandmother worked on a 224 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 1: farm and stood up all day long and a factory 225 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 1: making tile mosaics, those black and white tile mosaics to 226 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 1: make a living, and her mother worked. I mean, I'm 227 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 1: surprised in this day and age that that what hurts 228 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 1: the man's feelings that his wife for a minute is 229 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 1: making more money than him. Really well, even though you 230 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 1: would think that we're all so modern now and this 231 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 1: kind of thing shouldn't matter, it really does. It's it's 232 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 1: sort of ingrained, and it's emasculating. It's you know, humiliating, 233 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 1: even though you know the man certainly doesn't show it 234 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 1: like he made, you know, make jokes about it. I'm 235 00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 1: so lucky I have, you know, my wife is making 236 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 1: a fortune or whatever, But really it's emasculating, and um, 237 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 1: there are so many of course, one big question is 238 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 1: was there life insurance? Was he hoping to continue to 239 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 1: have her money after she died after he killed her? 240 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 1: But and and not have to have, um, this feeling 241 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 1: of her being the breadwinner? You know what, Alan, do you? 242 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 1: And can I ask you on a personal note, do 243 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 1: you find that emasculating when you're married? And let's just 244 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 1: say this isn't your first time around the block? Um, 245 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 1: but I mean when your wife works in Mexico living? 246 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 1: I mean is that emasculating to you? Were just like, whoa, 247 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:41,520 Speaker 1: there's a hundred bucks so mucheck in account. No, no, 248 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 1: it doesn't emasculate me. But just as long as she 249 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:46,560 Speaker 1: still cooks dinner for me, I'm happy. Well, you know what, 250 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 1: there's always such a thing as a can opener, so 251 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:53,400 Speaker 1: power to or well, you know what, I guess I'm 252 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 1: just so blessed. Vincent Hill, Troye Light, and Chuck Roberts. 253 00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 1: I'm not going to even give you a chance to 254 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 1: chime in on expect your mate to cook dinner because 255 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:05,199 Speaker 1: Jack and Aryl laughing into our fists in here. But 256 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:11,120 Speaker 1: I'm single. Hey, ladies, did you hear that? Vince and Hill? 257 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 1: Who is quite dashing, I might add is single. Okay, 258 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:18,879 Speaker 1: you put that out there. Uh, Troy Slayton married or single? 259 00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:22,639 Speaker 1: I am married? Okay, so you're off the mark, and 260 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 1: let's keep it that way, Chuck, Robert's married single? Uh 261 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 1: formerly married? Okay? So all right, just don't tell your 262 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 1: perspective brides that you expect them to cook dinner. That's 263 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:39,680 Speaker 1: not really gonna go over very well. Um, what I'm 264 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:44,720 Speaker 1: saying is, I'm just blessed that David loved me when 265 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:47,840 Speaker 1: I didn't have two pennies to run together and was 266 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 1: working to night jobs. And um, he always acts happily 267 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:56,200 Speaker 1: surprised when I cooked dinner. You know, it just never 268 00:17:56,240 --> 00:18:01,160 Speaker 1: gets old. So I'm blessed. I just ish so much 269 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:06,120 Speaker 1: that these children in the Mansonari's case had not seen this, 270 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:10,720 Speaker 1: that it didn't happen, because this has forever changed their lives. 271 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:15,679 Speaker 1: Right now, the purp, the husband, the dad is in 272 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 1: custody as we await his trial. There's a brand new 273 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:23,399 Speaker 1: website causing a lot of trouble for people with something 274 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:25,840 Speaker 1: to hide. Have you ever had a bad feeling about 275 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:30,359 Speaker 1: somebody may be suspected your partners cheating, maybe worried about 276 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:33,919 Speaker 1: your online reputation. If you answer yes to any of 277 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 1: those questions you may need truth Finder. Public records are 278 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 1: only recently easily available online. Before websites like truth Finder, 279 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 1: you most likely have to visit a courthouse to get 280 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:50,360 Speaker 1: that information. Now it's as simple as entering a name. 281 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 1: Truth Finder sifts through millions of public records from all 282 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 1: over the country, assembling them into one easy to read report. 283 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:01,400 Speaker 1: Search the names of somebody you know. You could find 284 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:07,200 Speaker 1: criminal and arrest records, bankruptcies, contact information, social dating profiles, 285 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 1: financial assets, and a lot more. Why fork out thousands 286 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 1: to a private investigator when you can do the job yourself. 287 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 1: Everybody you know has something to hide. Now you can 288 00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 1: root out the most dangerous people before you become the 289 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 1: next victim. It's not just used to us bad people. 290 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:32,200 Speaker 1: Truth Finder helps Americans reunite with friends, family, even people 291 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:35,640 Speaker 1: who served with them in the military. It's never been 292 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:38,639 Speaker 1: so easy to find the truth. Go to truth finder 293 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:42,240 Speaker 1: dot com slash Nancy and enter any name to get started. 294 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:48,119 Speaker 1: Sitting down for a nice Sunday brunch. Everything goes sideways 295 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 1: when a former cop and father intentionally rams his car 296 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:59,879 Speaker 1: into a crowded restaurant, killing his twenties six year old 297 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 1: daughter who was also a sheriff's deputy, and his son's 298 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 1: wife in the middle of a restaurant full of patrons 299 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 1: enjoying brunch. What happened. I'm talking about Roger Glenn self 300 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 1: and Bessemer City, North Carolina, who plows his vehicle into 301 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 1: a restaurant, killing his own daughter and daughter in law. 302 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:31,359 Speaker 1: It's unfathomable why this happened, what occurred, but of course 303 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 1: why it happened, it's something we may never know. Joining 304 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:40,119 Speaker 1: me right now, John Limley, Crime Stories investigative reporter, along 305 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:43,720 Speaker 1: with renowned psychologist Dr Patricia Saunders out of New York 306 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:48,479 Speaker 1: and forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor of forensics at 307 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University. First to you, John and Limley. This 308 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:58,760 Speaker 1: dad allegedly intentionally rams his car into the surfeit tour 309 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 1: of Lounge and Bessemer City, that's just on the edge 310 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:07,080 Speaker 1: of Charlotte, killing his own daughter and his daughter in law. 311 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:10,359 Speaker 1: A man to say, what happened? Well, Nancy, as you said, 312 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:12,960 Speaker 1: all of this takes place, it's actually just west of 313 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:16,600 Speaker 1: Charlotte in Gaston County, North Carolina. It's one of those 314 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:22,200 Speaker 1: southern places where suburbs sort of butt up against rural areas. 315 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:24,199 Speaker 1: For one moment, you're right in the middle of a 316 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:27,399 Speaker 1: bunch of houses, the next you see farmland and cows. 317 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:32,720 Speaker 1: Now many they're in Gaston County. Know rogerself as this faithful, 318 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:37,119 Speaker 1: churchgoing family man. He owned a successful private investigation and 319 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:41,920 Speaker 1: lost management company, Southeastern Loss Managed, hold On, held On, 320 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 1: John Lily, take a listen to what this bus boy 321 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:49,679 Speaker 1: working at the servant or has to say. Those blood 322 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:52,439 Speaker 1: on for the guy I helped to call out he 323 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:55,920 Speaker 1: was law an. I ran back there and um I 324 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 1: saw the car. I collected myself, ran back then try 325 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:00,439 Speaker 1: to help me to eco, John, I mean, let me 326 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 1: understand the sequence of events. Witnesses to my understanding, witnesses 327 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:09,880 Speaker 1: at the restaurant claim that self brings his family into 328 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:13,719 Speaker 1: the restaurant around noon. Everybody's coming for a brunch, and 329 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 1: he has them seated. Then he gets up to go 330 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:20,800 Speaker 1: to get something from his car, or to go to 331 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:25,600 Speaker 1: his car for some reason. So he intentionally places them, 332 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:29,479 Speaker 1: gets them seated at a particular table, and then he 333 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 1: goes out to his car. Correct family members were eating appetizers. 334 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 1: He excuses himself, uh slips out of the restaurant. At 335 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:41,600 Speaker 1: some point, a family member actually through a window, can 336 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:46,280 Speaker 1: see his white jeep circling the parking lot, and in 337 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:50,359 Speaker 1: a flash, that jeep is coming toward them, driving through 338 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:53,640 Speaker 1: the restaurant's front door at a high rate of speed 339 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 1: into the area where he knew his family was seated. Wow. 340 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:03,280 Speaker 1: So rogerself gets his family seated there at the Surf 341 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:06,439 Speaker 1: and Turf around noon for brunch. He gets up and 342 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:10,000 Speaker 1: goes out to his white suv in the parking lot. Then, 343 00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:14,240 Speaker 1: according to Limley, he goes around and around, gaining speed, 344 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:18,439 Speaker 1: and then at a very high rate of speed, crashes 345 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:23,600 Speaker 1: through the dining room, through the wall where the family 346 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:32,160 Speaker 1: is sitting, tables, chairs, cups, everything flying. It was like 347 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:37,040 Speaker 1: a train had come in. Amanda Self, the daughter in 348 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 1: law's husband, also harmed Josh self that would have been 349 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: his son. Their thirteen year old daughter harmed Rogerself's wife, 350 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:54,639 Speaker 1: Diane also injured. Two dead. Now what is at the 351 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:58,399 Speaker 1: heart of this? Was there some sort of domestic problem 352 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,400 Speaker 1: going on? Was he trying to kill his wife and 353 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:05,240 Speaker 1: ends up killing his own daughter. Hold on, guys, let's 354 00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:08,680 Speaker 1: go straight out and hear a news conference happening. We're 355 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:12,080 Speaker 1: putting his puzzle together, one step at a time. Information 356 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 1: and evidence gathered from a preliminary standpoint at this point 357 00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:19,919 Speaker 1: of the investigation indicates that it is abundantly clear that 358 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,560 Speaker 1: this was not an accident, that this is something that 359 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 1: Mr Self had intentionally done. WHOA, Now, this is what 360 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:31,160 Speaker 1: we know. Caitlin Self had arranged this after church brunch 361 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:34,679 Speaker 1: and had invited her fiancee and his parents as well. 362 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:39,920 Speaker 1: She was hoping her dad would enjoy being with everyone, 363 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:43,160 Speaker 1: with the soon to be extended family. They had all 364 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:48,440 Speaker 1: ordered drinks and appetizers and we're talking and laughing after 365 00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:53,919 Speaker 1: being seated at a table beside the window. This is 366 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,680 Speaker 1: clearly Dr Patricia Saunders joining me psychologists out of New York. 367 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:01,399 Speaker 1: Clearly so premeditated. He goes in and has his family 368 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:04,480 Speaker 1: seated at a table by the window. He's about to 369 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:09,679 Speaker 1: plow through or certainly is planned. This was an intentional So, 370 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:13,800 Speaker 1: Jessica Morgan, why why is it being speculated that this 371 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:16,720 Speaker 1: was intentional? What do you see in the facts that 372 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 1: suggests intentional? I mean to me has written all over it. 373 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:22,720 Speaker 1: He brings his family in, he sets them by the 374 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 1: window after they order appetizers and drinks that all just 375 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:29,640 Speaker 1: come from church. He goes out to the car so 376 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:34,720 Speaker 1: he can rev the engine. To me, that's very clearly intentional. Yeah. 377 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:37,160 Speaker 1: We we know that that the family had a clear 378 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:38,920 Speaker 1: line of sight of him because one of the family 379 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:42,200 Speaker 1: members reports seeing this guy Warbit in the and uh 380 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,240 Speaker 1: in the parking lot out there is he's kind of 381 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:48,399 Speaker 1: circling around. All reminds me of a shark. Um, he's 382 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,720 Speaker 1: you know, what he knows is this is that there 383 00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:55,399 Speaker 1: is just a very thin veil separating the leading edge 384 00:25:55,600 --> 00:26:00,159 Speaker 1: of that of that motor vehicle, uh, from from the 385 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,440 Speaker 1: family that's on the other side. And you set a mouthful, 386 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:05,960 Speaker 1: Nancy when you talked about the describe the scene. Uh, 387 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 1: we've got, you know, essentially pieces of shrapnel in the 388 00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 1: form of of cups and saucers and salt shakers, busted furniture, 389 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:19,560 Speaker 1: the glass would that's traveling through the air. Uh. This 390 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:25,080 Speaker 1: is a major blunt force related death. Uh that has 391 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:29,240 Speaker 1: just driven driven his family down in terror. Uh. And 392 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:31,680 Speaker 1: and you know, I would be really curious to find 393 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:35,680 Speaker 1: out what the hostess says that seated the family did 394 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:37,560 Speaker 1: he specific and this is what the police are gonna 395 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 1: ask did he specifically request a seat by the window? 396 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:48,359 Speaker 1: And this goes to this idea of premeditation possibly leading 397 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,600 Speaker 1: up to this fatal event. You know, if he was depressed. Uh, 398 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:55,440 Speaker 1: that's certainly no defense. As a matter of fact, it 399 00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:59,159 Speaker 1: indicates he many indications he may have been depressed because 400 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:03,719 Speaker 1: his daughter booked a table for her father to quote 401 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 1: cheer him up before he plows into them in a 402 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:13,440 Speaker 1: car rampage, killing two. This guy, a former cop, drives 403 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,159 Speaker 1: his car through a restaurant, killing his own daughter and 404 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 1: daughter in law. He has just just made a court appearance. Listen, 405 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,919 Speaker 1: first year and the first thing I need to was 406 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:30,920 Speaker 1: an important maybe, he thinks to you, there are three 407 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:33,120 Speaker 1: things that we need to do today. First of all, 408 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:38,159 Speaker 1: in formula charms. Mr John's just informula from two council 409 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:43,359 Speaker 1: the first three hear. The second thing we need to 410 00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:50,440 Speaker 1: do is for you. Are you going to represent yourself? 411 00:27:50,800 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 1: Going to hire a council? And um, I have it 412 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:09,679 Speaker 1: before me, cancel? Did you complete happening? Well, right before today, 413 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 1: I made a decision cans and then this time I 414 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:23,200 Speaker 1: would choose with the court UPO. Uh part Sarah was 415 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:26,600 Speaker 1: right there. I don't think he's gonna sign it. Before 416 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:31,280 Speaker 1: he came out here, I couldn't get it. That is 417 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 1: self in a court appearance that has just happened. And 418 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 1: at that court appearance there were two full rows seated 419 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:45,239 Speaker 1: in the courtroom of self. Family and friends. Were they 420 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:47,640 Speaker 1: there to support him or to see justice over the 421 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:52,760 Speaker 1: two dead family members. Now the family had all gotten 422 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:56,080 Speaker 1: seated by the window and began noticing Self's car in 423 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 1: the parking lot. Is literally reported circling in. The next thing, 424 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:04,680 Speaker 1: you know, he crashes through the window. I'm looking at 425 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:10,360 Speaker 1: photos of the scene right now after rogerself Plows's y 426 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 1: Fu suv through the wall of the restaurant at a 427 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:16,960 Speaker 1: high rate of speed, smashing through the dining room right 428 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:21,800 Speaker 1: where the family was sitting. To Dr Patricia Saunders, psychologist 429 00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:23,959 Speaker 1: joining me out of New York, you know, you and 430 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:28,120 Speaker 1: I have covered so many cases where mothers kill their 431 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:33,160 Speaker 1: children two quote, let them have a better life so 432 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 1: they don't suffer on earth. Sometimes they kill themselves and 433 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:40,680 Speaker 1: take their children with them. I don't get the feeling 434 00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 1: he was trying to give them a better life in 435 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 1: this in this case, Dr Saunders, nor do I um 436 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:51,240 Speaker 1: this doesn't seem to fit the profile of a motive suicide. 437 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:55,400 Speaker 1: It's a suicide because the pastor reported that, Um that 438 00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 1: ten weeks ago he asked his son to take his 439 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:03,160 Speaker 1: gun he might kill himself. Um, there's something for you 440 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:06,600 Speaker 1: about this. I don't think we've known of at this point. Um, 441 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:10,880 Speaker 1: if he wasn't sac something from the psychotic digression with 442 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 1: delusions or this is a hail Mary and Sanity says, 443 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:18,200 Speaker 1: so credit to it. Well, Uh, he seemed to be 444 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:22,720 Speaker 1: of sound mind and body when he goes into the restaurant, 445 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:26,360 Speaker 1: although the family says they thought he just got up 446 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:31,440 Speaker 1: and was walking around because he was quote anxious. Now 447 00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 1: what is the answer, Nancy. Roger self's brother is speaking 448 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:39,200 Speaker 1: out for the family, speaking about forgiveness. He says Roger 449 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 1: started showing signs of mental illness about six months ago. 450 00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 1: Take a listen to this. What would you like for 451 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 1: people to know about your brother Roger right now? That 452 00:30:51,360 --> 00:31:01,240 Speaker 1: Roger is a man of integrity, it's a care it's 453 00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 1: a godly man, and he's a man that loved. He 454 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:07,560 Speaker 1: didn't meet a stranger and he would give you the 455 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:10,400 Speaker 1: shirt off his back. Just this week, he was wanting 456 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:14,400 Speaker 1: to help a family that he knew was homeless, and uh, 457 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:17,440 Speaker 1: I'm worried about everything going on in his own life. 458 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:21,400 Speaker 1: People to help somebody was homeless. And so that's kind 459 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:23,520 Speaker 1: of me and my brother us. What did you blame 460 00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 1: for what happened here? I believe there was in the 461 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:33,080 Speaker 1: evil in this world. I believe that evil somehow intervened 462 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 1: here and and got the temporary, uh, consequences that it want. 463 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:45,720 Speaker 1: But it's not gonna get the It's not gonna win. 464 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:49,800 Speaker 1: And that's that's what we believe. You understood what the 465 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:54,000 Speaker 1: charges was. I don't know they really understood. Uh, but 466 00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:57,720 Speaker 1: he he knew that Kay didn't make it. He knew 467 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:02,080 Speaker 1: that the man he didn't make it, and uh, he understood, 468 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:04,200 Speaker 1: and were gonna be consequence just for that. But the 469 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:08,160 Speaker 1: first thing that he he said, he said, uh, that 470 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:14,520 Speaker 1: was crazy. Said, but how's Diane House, Josh House, Caleb 471 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:18,800 Speaker 1: and Kendall and Taylor. Uh, And he said, just please 472 00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:24,160 Speaker 1: make sure they're taken care of. And he said, don't 473 00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:31,880 Speaker 1: don't forget I'm here. And so like I said, he understood, 474 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 1: But just looking at him, he was there wasn't nothing 475 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,120 Speaker 1: there that if you know, you both know Roger, it 476 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:40,920 Speaker 1: was the charismatic person that Roger was. It was an 477 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:48,120 Speaker 1: empty blank and it's hard. You spoke to me before 478 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:54,280 Speaker 1: um um about forgiveness and no need to forget. There 479 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:56,160 Speaker 1: a lot of people out there who don't understand that 480 00:32:56,240 --> 00:33:00,520 Speaker 1: concept is foreign, and they will ask the question, how 481 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:05,160 Speaker 1: can you say that? What do you say? I think 482 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:08,080 Speaker 1: for a lot there are gonna have to be forgiveness. 483 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:10,240 Speaker 1: I mean, everyone have to find it themselves to forgive 484 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,560 Speaker 1: for Roger. But I think from the family standpoint and 485 00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:19,800 Speaker 1: from the uh, the faith standpoint with Roger, Uh happened 486 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:27,560 Speaker 1: to Roger? Uh? I've tried to let the calmness of 487 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:32,000 Speaker 1: of God direct my thoughts and dre and I don't 488 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:33,880 Speaker 1: want to go down that road. So I don't need 489 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:35,640 Speaker 1: to if I don't need to forgive him because I 490 00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:41,440 Speaker 1: know that it wasn't him. Uh, people might not and 491 00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:45,320 Speaker 1: I didn't understand that. Ken, that's what Roger would want 492 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,320 Speaker 1: to convey to the world, to forgiving that it was 493 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:53,920 Speaker 1: evil what he done, uh, and just wanting to get 494 00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:57,000 Speaker 1: the proper help and be able to hopefully some day 495 00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:59,200 Speaker 1: be restored back to a way that he could live 496 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:03,640 Speaker 1: in him. Uh. That's gonna be difficult for Roger. But 497 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:06,760 Speaker 1: for the rest of us, we have to live together 498 00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:12,799 Speaker 1: and eat together and uh. And so the only way 499 00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:17,160 Speaker 1: you can go through life is forgiven people and forgiving 500 00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:22,359 Speaker 1: yourself for things that that it's going wrong in your 501 00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:25,640 Speaker 1: life or you've done. And because you you you want 502 00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:29,840 Speaker 1: to live and even more this weekend, h I understand 503 00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:32,000 Speaker 1: what it means to live every day in a way 504 00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:34,920 Speaker 1: that your family appreciates who you are, and you tell 505 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:39,480 Speaker 1: them you love them, and you tell them how much 506 00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:42,239 Speaker 1: it means to you, and you don't take a few 507 00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,200 Speaker 1: moments you get with them. For green Well, he had 508 00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:48,920 Speaker 1: been a youth counselor for quite some time, owned his 509 00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:53,160 Speaker 1: own business. Seemed as as as if everything was fine. 510 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:58,640 Speaker 1: How is that going to equal a mental defect defense? 511 00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:03,880 Speaker 1: Depression will not get you out of a double murder. Okay, 512 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:06,840 Speaker 1: a lot of people are depressed, a lot of people, 513 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,759 Speaker 1: a lot of people have reason to be depressed. But 514 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:12,640 Speaker 1: that is not a mental defense. You have to be 515 00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:16,320 Speaker 1: insane to the point where you do not know right 516 00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:19,279 Speaker 1: from wrong at the time of the incident. It is 517 00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:22,600 Speaker 1: called the old McNaughton test, and it's from our common law. 518 00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:25,680 Speaker 1: What is common law? Common law is the law we 519 00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:31,560 Speaker 1: brought over from Great Britain when this country began. Statutory 520 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:35,520 Speaker 1: law is law that has been passed by the legislature 521 00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:40,240 Speaker 1: since then, and case law uh is law that has 522 00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:44,920 Speaker 1: developed over time from cases heard in the American justice system. 523 00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:48,880 Speaker 1: Insanity is defined across our country is not knowing right 524 00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:51,040 Speaker 1: from wrong at the time of the incident. There are 525 00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:55,400 Speaker 1: other issues such as psychotic delusion, like in Son of Sam, 526 00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:58,359 Speaker 1: where Berkowitz claimed a dog told him to kill he 527 00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:00,920 Speaker 1: was having delusions. Of course that was a lie, but 528 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:04,120 Speaker 1: that's an example of delusions. There are many different types 529 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:07,480 Speaker 1: of mental defects that can be argued at trial. But 530 00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:13,520 Speaker 1: this is what rogerself's own pastor says. Listen, what happened. 531 00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:17,000 Speaker 1: Not a testimony of rogerself, but a testimony of mental 532 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,880 Speaker 1: illness that absolutely overtook him. When a person has litimate 533 00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:25,040 Speaker 1: mental illness, they can't just stop thinking that way. The 534 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:28,799 Speaker 1: computer doesn't process that way anymore. They've got to have 535 00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:33,560 Speaker 1: treatment to get the brain functioning properly again. And so 536 00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:36,480 Speaker 1: to those family that are going through this, you need 537 00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:39,040 Speaker 1: to take it very serious. They may not do something 538 00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:42,080 Speaker 1: as horrifying as Roger has done, but why would you 539 00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:45,319 Speaker 1: want your family living in that situation. I don't know 540 00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:48,959 Speaker 1: what's happening now, John Lemley, what do we know right now? 541 00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:54,440 Speaker 1: He is being held Uh, there is a fairly large 542 00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:59,600 Speaker 1: bond in place, and his attorney team is trying their 543 00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:03,520 Speaker 1: best to take the next step and put his case together. 544 00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:05,879 Speaker 1: They're doing their prep. At the moment, we wait as 545 00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:12,360 Speaker 1: justice unfolds while this family attends to burying and mourning 546 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:19,560 Speaker 1: two of their own. A sudden outbreak of real life zombies. 547 00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:26,400 Speaker 1: This is not a movie script or a streaming video 548 00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:30,960 Speaker 1: show that you may watch. This is for real. These 549 00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:38,000 Speaker 1: people seemingly are walking dead, zombie like. But it's no 550 00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:42,040 Speaker 1: voodoo curse. It's curse, all right, and it's called k 551 00:37:42,640 --> 00:38:00,279 Speaker 1: to listen. Can't even twisted and my amat oh look 552 00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:06,880 Speaker 1: at this? Oh how no, this is great. The cops 553 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:12,320 Speaker 1: got this one. Look young dude too, Bro, look at that. 554 00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:17,480 Speaker 1: That's crazy. Tell your kids, Please tell your family if 555 00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:20,440 Speaker 1: they want that, kids to stay off for that man's 556 00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:28,560 Speaker 1: do This is yo, please yard, this is not hoppy. 557 00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:38,960 Speaker 1: Look at this. Look at this. Listen twisted, twist and 558 00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:45,640 Speaker 1: twist murder on broway, Now another case. This is this 559 00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:49,640 Speaker 1: is ongoing. It's just ongoing on day. You are hearing 560 00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:55,239 Speaker 1: local residents as they are looking at real life zombies 561 00:38:55,440 --> 00:39:00,839 Speaker 1: or seemingly so. It's people that are strung out on 562 00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:07,200 Speaker 1: K two. It's it's amazing the K two zombies back 563 00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:12,760 Speaker 1: and force. Over two dozen people overdosed on a dangerous 564 00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:18,520 Speaker 1: synthetic marijuana and the very same Bedford neighborhood twenty five 565 00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:22,200 Speaker 1: people with negative reactions to the substance. We believe is 566 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:27,719 Speaker 1: K too. All the o d s happening apparently outside 567 00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:31,640 Speaker 1: of one deli, the Big Boy Deli also known as 568 00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:35,719 Speaker 1: Zombie Land Deli. And this is why the site of 569 00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:44,000 Speaker 1: dozens of people stumbling, gasping, vomiting, falling down, collapsing had 570 00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:47,640 Speaker 1: the neighbors calling nine one one and describing scenes that 571 00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:51,480 Speaker 1: looked like they were from The Walking Dead, the hit series. 572 00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:56,680 Speaker 1: It happens over and over and over. What's going on? 573 00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:01,839 Speaker 1: Listen us probably seventy two hours, kind of at least 574 00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:05,080 Speaker 1: forty in cases of K two overdose Satorically in Minnesota, 575 00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:07,360 Speaker 1: when we have seen spikes since this first a period 576 00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:10,799 Speaker 1: in about two thousand nine, they usually last for days 577 00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:14,200 Speaker 1: two weeks and tend to be concentrated in one local 578 00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:19,640 Speaker 1: geographic area. There are untold number of effects that are 579 00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:23,960 Speaker 1: very very different than typical marijuana intoxication or overdose with 580 00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:28,640 Speaker 1: anything that's labeled as K two. We're talking about K to, 581 00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:35,680 Speaker 1: a dangerous, dangerous synthetic marijuana. Joining me right now, renowned 582 00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:41,480 Speaker 1: medical examiner out of Madison Heights, Dr William Maroney, author 583 00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:46,120 Speaker 1: of a brand new book on Amazon American Narcan. Dr Maroney, 584 00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:48,800 Speaker 1: thanks for being with us. What does it mean when 585 00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:52,440 Speaker 1: we hear KATE two turns the into a zombie? If 586 00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:54,799 Speaker 1: you want to say that a zombie somebody who's not 587 00:40:54,840 --> 00:41:01,759 Speaker 1: going to respond appropriately. It hijacks the brain, changes their perception. 588 00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:06,400 Speaker 1: So maybe they they can't talk, maybe they stare off. 589 00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:13,080 Speaker 1: And the zombie part is that they may sit still 590 00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:18,000 Speaker 1: and look like they're dead. They may fall down and 591 00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:21,000 Speaker 1: look like they're dead, but their eyes are still moving 592 00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:24,880 Speaker 1: and they're still breathing. So yes, it can make people 593 00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:30,680 Speaker 1: look like zombies. They may lose all the ability to 594 00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:34,399 Speaker 1: stand or walk, and that puts them in that kind 595 00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:38,120 Speaker 1: of steak. It was a bizarre saying, Dr Maroney, dozens 596 00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:42,799 Speaker 1: of people with blank stairs stumbling around the same neighborhood. 597 00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:44,960 Speaker 1: In fact, just a few moments ago, I was playing 598 00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:50,400 Speaker 1: for you someone live streaming it on Facebook. It seemed 599 00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:53,160 Speaker 1: like a nightmare. It was a nightmare, but a nightmare 600 00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:59,520 Speaker 1: of drug abuse, synthetic marijuana turning people into zombies. Emergency 601 00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:04,759 Speaker 1: worker sent thirty three people to local hospitals, all of 602 00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:08,799 Speaker 1: them under the influence of K to What exactly is 603 00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:13,080 Speaker 1: K to Dr Moroney? What's important is to understand that 604 00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:19,920 Speaker 1: sometimes chemists or illegal drug cartels I think they can 605 00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:26,560 Speaker 1: copy nature, and they're trying to copy the active ingredient 606 00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:30,960 Speaker 1: in marijuana, known as tetra hydrocannabit all. That doesn't make 607 00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:36,960 Speaker 1: it safe, and it also doesn't make it reliable or predictable. 608 00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:46,239 Speaker 1: And whereas we think that most people who smoke or 609 00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:54,319 Speaker 1: consume cannabis will relax, chill out, sitting a chair, get 610 00:42:54,400 --> 00:43:00,400 Speaker 1: some munches, the drugs that they've invented don't necessary really 611 00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:07,480 Speaker 1: reflect those same kind of clinical actions, and they freak 612 00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:13,040 Speaker 1: people out. People pass out, they have seizures. And one 613 00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:18,400 Speaker 1: of the dangerous things is at least when you think 614 00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:26,080 Speaker 1: about opioids that are heroin, we have reversal agents. We 615 00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:31,799 Speaker 1: don't have any such reversal agents for people that overdose 616 00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:38,640 Speaker 1: on these synthetic marijuanas and ks none. We're at the 617 00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:45,400 Speaker 1: hands of unknown chemistryes of illegal drug lords. I think 618 00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:49,520 Speaker 1: in playing English, Dr Maroney is you know, light years 619 00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:54,000 Speaker 1: ahead of us when speaking about the chemical ingredients and drugs. 620 00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:58,120 Speaker 1: But what he's saying, I think is that with opioids 621 00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:04,960 Speaker 1: there are certain reverse medications like uh laxone and others, 622 00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:08,080 Speaker 1: which he details in his book American Arcama. But with this, 623 00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:12,400 Speaker 1: it's designed to mimic marijuana. It's a man made drug, 624 00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:16,239 Speaker 1: but it's got far more powerful effects. It puts you 625 00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:19,640 Speaker 1: in a whole different world, a delusional world. Your head 626 00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:23,120 Speaker 1: is spinning, it's mine altering. And the way it's made 627 00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:29,920 Speaker 1: K two it's made by spraying chemicals, legal chemicals onto plants, 628 00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:33,600 Speaker 1: onto the marijuana plants. Then as ground up and smoke, 629 00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:40,160 Speaker 1: users hallucinate, their heart rate goes up, they have seizures, confusion, 630 00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:46,520 Speaker 1: And what we're finding now is that it's growing nationwide. 631 00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:51,520 Speaker 1: The CDC has reported over thirty five hundred, now nearly 632 00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:55,600 Speaker 1: four thousand calls of synthetic synthetic marijuana use two poison 633 00:44:55,719 --> 00:45:02,000 Speaker 1: centers in just five months. That's a two jump from 634 00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:06,560 Speaker 1: the year before. But dopers are always one step ahead 635 00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:11,160 Speaker 1: of law enforcement. As soon as cops outlaw one recipe 636 00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:15,080 Speaker 1: for K two, they come up with another recipe, making 637 00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:19,600 Speaker 1: it virtually impossible for the ingredients to be outlawed again. 638 00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:22,279 Speaker 1: What it is is you take marijuana plants and you 639 00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:27,880 Speaker 1: spray chemicals onto the plants. Then people smoke it or 640 00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:35,759 Speaker 1: ingest it, and it ruins your mind. Highly addictive, right, 641 00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:41,200 Speaker 1: Dr Maroney. Well, if it doesn't kill you, these people's brains, 642 00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:43,120 Speaker 1: they're hijacked, and guess what they want to do. They 643 00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:46,680 Speaker 1: want to go back and do it again. Um, because 644 00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:54,480 Speaker 1: there's this huge unnatural gap or spiritual deficit in a 645 00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:57,439 Speaker 1: large number of our youth, and we're looking to fill 646 00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:00,520 Speaker 1: it with chemicals, and they want to go back and 647 00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:04,399 Speaker 1: try it again. And as men, matter of fact, as 648 00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:09,080 Speaker 1: crazy as it sounds, if there's some information that somebody 649 00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:13,200 Speaker 1: has has some K too or some spice at a store, 650 00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:16,879 Speaker 1: or a dealer is selling K two or spice at 651 00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:21,319 Speaker 1: a street corner, and people find out that people are 652 00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:25,520 Speaker 1: overdosing on the stuff the dealers selling, they'll skip buying 653 00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:27,880 Speaker 1: it in the gas station and they'll go buy it 654 00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:31,560 Speaker 1: at the dealer who's almost killing people. Don't make any sense, 655 00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:38,839 Speaker 1: but those brains are hijacked K to zombie danger. And 656 00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:41,800 Speaker 1: it's not just in the neighborhood we were talking about. 657 00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:47,560 Speaker 1: It's fate weed, K to spy, synthetic marijuana. It's a 658 00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:51,520 Speaker 1: new drug and a lot of people, especially teens. I 659 00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:54,759 Speaker 1: think fate weight is okay because it's cheap. You can 660 00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:59,040 Speaker 1: get it at gas stations. Fake wade is not safe 661 00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:03,479 Speaker 1: or legal, and don't be fooled by it. Synthetic weight. 662 00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:08,680 Speaker 1: Right now, we're talking about K two, which is totally illegal. 663 00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:12,680 Speaker 1: Dr Maroney, another question, is it true? K two is 664 00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:19,680 Speaker 1: especially dangerous because the dopers keep changing the formula chemically. 665 00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:27,040 Speaker 1: We cannot predict how the illegal chemists change during the 666 00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:33,120 Speaker 1: manufacturing process these molecules, so you cannot have a finite 667 00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:36,600 Speaker 1: list and say, oh, this is illegal, this is illegal. 668 00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:40,880 Speaker 1: This illegal because they keep changing the chemical molecule and 669 00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:45,200 Speaker 1: we're playing catch up. We're chasing the tail of the dog. 670 00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:49,520 Speaker 1: The best advice you can give is to stay away 671 00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:53,040 Speaker 1: from this stuff because we really don't have reversal agents, 672 00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:58,440 Speaker 1: we really don't have protocols, and these things can stop 673 00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:02,040 Speaker 1: you from breathing, and after that you die. And if 674 00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:05,160 Speaker 1: they don't stop you from breathing. You can have seizures 675 00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:10,040 Speaker 1: and that'll end up giving you permanent brain damage after 676 00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:12,799 Speaker 1: you soil on yourself and pooping your pants and pee 677 00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:16,200 Speaker 1: all over yourself. And then somebody will say, Wow, that 678 00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:18,160 Speaker 1: was kind of strong. I like that, I want to 679 00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:21,200 Speaker 1: do again. Wellnesses say they had no idea what was 680 00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:24,960 Speaker 1: happening in the last days. One guy was standing outside 681 00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:29,160 Speaker 1: a coffee shop on Broadway and Myrtle and he noticed 682 00:48:29,239 --> 00:48:34,600 Speaker 1: people started falling to the ground. This guy, Mr. Rodriguez Janitor, 683 00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:37,560 Speaker 1: is describing how the people would take just a couple 684 00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:41,800 Speaker 1: of puffs and bam, that dropped to the ground right there, 685 00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:46,560 Speaker 1: strown on the sidewalk. Then another, then another that the 686 00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:48,879 Speaker 1: E M T s came out and we're there late 687 00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:52,480 Speaker 1: into the night trying to save people. We believe these 688 00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:56,000 Speaker 1: people sick and o'deed on a synthetic drug known as 689 00:48:56,200 --> 00:49:01,440 Speaker 1: K two, unconscious, struggling to breathe, vomiting. They were all 690 00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:06,160 Speaker 1: giving the laxon that's an opioid overdosed reversal drug and 691 00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:09,239 Speaker 1: taken to the hospital. What will happen next, We don't 692 00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:12,080 Speaker 1: know what long term effect is going to have on them. 693 00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:15,959 Speaker 1: Two Dr Patricia Saunders joining us out of New York. 694 00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:20,880 Speaker 1: Dr Saunders um. Dr Moroney was talking about the use 695 00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:24,239 Speaker 1: of drugs to feel some void in your life, but 696 00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:26,120 Speaker 1: I think there's more. I agree with that, but I 697 00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:29,680 Speaker 1: also think that sometimes people try a drug just for 698 00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:33,720 Speaker 1: the kick or because of peer pressure, then they're suddenly 699 00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:38,200 Speaker 1: addicted to it. Well, it's true, Um, there are lots 700 00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:40,520 Speaker 1: of reasons why people try drugs, but those are the 701 00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:44,880 Speaker 1: two biggest just because they're uh, they're but either the 702 00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:48,320 Speaker 1: pure group is trying it and it's supposed to be 703 00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:52,239 Speaker 1: a really potent high dick kick um, and they have 704 00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:57,440 Speaker 1: no idea what they're taking. It's awesome, um um sold 705 00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:01,960 Speaker 1: and synthetic now one which it is not. As Dr 706 00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:07,040 Speaker 1: Murney was explaining. In fact, drug companies have made spetic 707 00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:10,640 Speaker 1: marijuana and we never put it into production because it's 708 00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:14,279 Speaker 1: eighty five times more powerful. Uh, I didn't want to 709 00:50:15,719 --> 00:50:17,840 Speaker 1: one of the things that doesn't wife sount remember and 710 00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:21,200 Speaker 1: they so people forget that they had seizures or we're 711 00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:24,480 Speaker 1: in a psychiatic state. So they do it again, synthetic 712 00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:30,080 Speaker 1: weed turning people into K two zombies. Take a listen 713 00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:33,800 Speaker 1: to this. You are not selling governage in our community. 714 00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:37,399 Speaker 1: You are not making another doubt. We will be out 715 00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:41,000 Speaker 1: here as much time as possible until you are closed down. 716 00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:43,800 Speaker 1: I'm gonna see the tentsman just tumbled over righting for 717 00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:46,400 Speaker 1: us the street from the cops. So apparently they feels 718 00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:50,440 Speaker 1: that there's the same situation that's going on with them. 719 00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:55,000 Speaker 1: That's coming around three years ago when it was legal, 720 00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:58,320 Speaker 1: we were selling it, but we stopped after all that 721 00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:02,440 Speaker 1: happened in we stop seven. They go get it. I 722 00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:04,040 Speaker 1: don't know where they get it. They come here and 723 00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:07,240 Speaker 1: sell it. That's not my business, is the police department's 724 00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:09,200 Speaker 1: business to get rid of them. And we call the 725 00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:13,520 Speaker 1: police every day, becoming like an academic in the community. 726 00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:17,080 Speaker 1: And we wanted to come to stuff. Nancy Graces Crime 727 00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:24,040 Speaker 1: Story signing off. Good night friend. There's a brand new 728 00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:26,800 Speaker 1: website causing a lot of trouble for people with something 729 00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:29,600 Speaker 1: to hide. Have you ever had a bad feeling about somebody, 730 00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:34,120 Speaker 1: suspect that a partner of cheating, worried about your online reputation? 731 00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:37,400 Speaker 1: If you answer yes to any of those questions, you 732 00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:42,880 Speaker 1: may need truth Finder. Truth Finder may reveal court records, bankruptcies, 733 00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:48,040 Speaker 1: contact information, social dating profiles, assets, and a lot more. 734 00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:51,360 Speaker 1: You get it all in one easy to read report. 735 00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:54,879 Speaker 1: Why work out thousands of dollars to a private eye 736 00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:57,399 Speaker 1: when you can do the job yourself. Go to truth 737 00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:00,759 Speaker 1: finder dot com slash Nancy and Answer or any name 738 00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:01,720 Speaker 1: to get started.