WEBVTT - Chaucer Barnes, Translation + United Masters 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.880 Afrotech is a global gathering where inclusive tech companies meet innovators. 0:00:04.080 --> 0:00:05.320 It's the only tech event you. 0:00:05.240 --> 0:00:05.880 Need all year. 0:00:06.080 --> 0:00:09.039 Get ready for Afrotech twenty twenty three in Austin, Texas, 0:00:09.160 --> 0:00:11.600 November first through the fifth. We built a whole temper 0:00:11.640 --> 0:00:13.280 you can use to help you get your employer to 0:00:13.360 --> 0:00:16.400 sponsor your trip and enjoy experiences built for every stage 0:00:16.440 --> 0:00:18.720 your career. 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Visit afrotech dot com slash conference. 0:00:43.640 --> 0:00:44.280 To learn more. 0:00:46.159 --> 0:00:48.520 I'm Will Lucas and this is Black Tech, Green Money. 0:00:50.320 --> 0:00:54.520 Chaucer Barnes' Chief marketing officer of Translation Plus United Masters, 0:00:54.880 --> 0:00:58.040 the parent company of a war Rening creative agency, translation 0:00:58.520 --> 0:01:02.639 and artist services platform United Masters in creating a new 0:01:02.680 --> 0:01:05.639 normal for the way brands and creators enlikenment and trade 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:06.640 cultural capital. 0:01:07.080 --> 0:01:09.360 Chaucer applies tools and lessons. 0:01:09.000 --> 0:01:12.160 From every chapter of his life as a media planner, 0:01:12.280 --> 0:01:18.480 brand strategist, creative director, partnership architect, and independent musician. Chaucer 0:01:18.520 --> 0:01:21.440 has said, in the early days of translation, people weren't 0:01:21.480 --> 0:01:25.520 talking about culture in the context of advertising. This interested me, 0:01:25.560 --> 0:01:28.840 so I asked, what has changed and what impact has 0:01:28.880 --> 0:01:32.520 embracing culture had on the metrics business cares about sales, 0:01:33.080 --> 0:01:36.240 and what impact has this focus had on culture itself. 0:01:36.440 --> 0:01:38.520 Yeah, that's definitely true. 0:01:38.520 --> 0:01:41.200 I mean I've been around a company for close to 0:01:41.200 --> 0:01:44.640 twelve years now, and when I say that, when I say, 0:01:44.720 --> 0:01:47.560 you know, culture wasn't mentioned in the in reference to advertising, 0:01:48.160 --> 0:01:50.800 it's because when we were saying it early almost Color 0:01:50.800 --> 0:01:53.200 twenty twelve, it felt really exceptional. 0:01:53.440 --> 0:01:56.160 It was a moment. It was it was an. 0:01:56.000 --> 0:02:00.360 Expression of differentiation at the time. The idea that you know, 0:02:00.520 --> 0:02:04.440 making people aware of these certain products existing at these 0:02:04.480 --> 0:02:07.240 certain price points, that these retailers had anything to do 0:02:07.320 --> 0:02:13.280 with the business of fandom or of social identity, How 0:02:13.280 --> 0:02:15.480 it's changed, and why it's changed. I guess I should 0:02:15.480 --> 0:02:19.000 start with is it's changed because people hit the ceiling 0:02:19.040 --> 0:02:21.160 of growth and they felt it. They knew it, right, 0:02:21.200 --> 0:02:23.080 So you could look at that in the kind of 0:02:23.120 --> 0:02:27.840 individual cases of think about Budweiser, right, Budweiser at the 0:02:27.880 --> 0:02:31.560 time that they got into business with translation, they completely 0:02:31.560 --> 0:02:34.320 stalled out, Here's America's beer. Only one in three twenty 0:02:34.320 --> 0:02:37.040 one and twenty seven year olds that ever tasted America's beer. 0:02:37.360 --> 0:02:40.320 And so you have these huge, kind of ubiquitous brand 0:02:40.480 --> 0:02:48.160 expectations and this wilting undercurrent or sorry, this wilting audience 0:02:48.280 --> 0:02:52.639 underneath that brand that just doesn't care. And so the sales, 0:02:52.680 --> 0:02:55.480 the metrics that they really cared about in that case, 0:02:55.680 --> 0:03:00.600 sales and their ability to move through various on premise 0:03:00.680 --> 0:03:07.120 off premise retailers, that was the forcing function that made 0:03:07.120 --> 0:03:09.920 them adopt new proxies for that success. 0:03:10.000 --> 0:03:11.360 So it's not that the metrics change. 0:03:11.360 --> 0:03:13.320 In other words, people to make beers still want to 0:03:13.320 --> 0:03:15.320 sell beer, people to make cars still want to sell cars, 0:03:15.320 --> 0:03:20.600 et cetera. It's that they see the proxy for that 0:03:20.720 --> 0:03:25.240 performance being better measured in adoption rate engagement rate. I mean, 0:03:25.240 --> 0:03:28.880 think about the idea of engagement rate as you know 0:03:28.919 --> 0:03:31.240 that came to popularity in the late or in the 0:03:31.240 --> 0:03:33.680 early teens, let's call it two thousand and eight to 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:41.240 twenty fourteen. Somewhere the entire advertising industry had come to maturity, 0:03:41.280 --> 0:03:45.760 full maturity, without any kind of notion of what consumers 0:03:45.800 --> 0:03:49.880 on the other end of that message do. An engagement 0:03:49.960 --> 0:03:51.800 rate was the first thing anybody started to measure. It 0:03:52.000 --> 0:03:53.880 was like, all right, so I did this, and then 0:03:53.920 --> 0:03:57.560 they did that, and they did that became so important 0:03:57.920 --> 0:04:01.600 because sheer delivery. Right, this is my impression load, this 0:04:01.640 --> 0:04:03.880 is my impression count. Okay, but how many people click? 0:04:04.400 --> 0:04:06.400 Okay? But how many people took a step? Okay? But 0:04:06.440 --> 0:04:07.360 how many people shared? 0:04:08.360 --> 0:04:12.920 That grammar of consumer engagement in the work that you 0:04:12.960 --> 0:04:18.240 put forward was all part of people having to come 0:04:18.240 --> 0:04:22.400 around to the fact that you can't win without creating 0:04:22.520 --> 0:04:26.800 a rational preference for your product, service, or your brand values. 0:04:27.240 --> 0:04:29.080 And you shouldn't be trying to do that in a 0:04:29.120 --> 0:04:31.000 direct response way. You should be trying to do that 0:04:31.040 --> 0:04:33.440 in a communal way. And then there was just evidence, 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:36.120 it was just ample evidence everywhere that the things that 0:04:36.160 --> 0:04:41.279 were dominating pop culture were no longer the fruit of 0:04:41.320 --> 0:04:46.000 a couple of gatekeepers. It was really an empowered populace. 0:04:46.279 --> 0:04:48.000 And so I think the confluence of all of those 0:04:48.040 --> 0:04:52.680 things have been a force and function for every single 0:04:52.720 --> 0:04:57.080 marketer to not get fired by appreciating that their job 0:04:57.160 --> 0:04:59.919 is not just to make everybody aware, their job is 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:01.600 to drive affinity. 0:05:01.640 --> 0:05:02.760 And then ultimately action. 0:05:03.600 --> 0:05:06.200 You said a word, they're communal, and I think of 0:05:06.200 --> 0:05:08.600 a community in this way. So we've had this conversation 0:05:08.680 --> 0:05:11.800 a few times on this podcast where we've discussed the 0:05:11.839 --> 0:05:15.799 idea of if you're just directly trying to sell without 0:05:15.839 --> 0:05:19.560 having built a brand or community first, you might be successful, 0:05:19.640 --> 0:05:23.359 but it's not a sustainable way to build something. So 0:05:23.839 --> 0:05:26.440 what we've talked about is, if you can build your 0:05:26.600 --> 0:05:29.120 brand and build a community of people who will follow 0:05:29.160 --> 0:05:31.880 you anywhere you can sell anything. Then what do you 0:05:32.000 --> 0:05:33.839 say to that concept? 0:05:35.200 --> 0:05:38.159 Well, I do think that there are limitations on selling 0:05:38.200 --> 0:05:40.839 anything that are frankly shaped by your brand, Like the 0:05:40.880 --> 0:05:43.480 contours of your brand dictate what you can and cannot sell. 0:05:44.800 --> 0:05:47.440 I'm about to take my wife down to Nola to 0:05:47.480 --> 0:05:49.760 see what was supposed to be the last stop on 0:05:49.800 --> 0:05:52.880 a renaissance tour, and I can't imagine a bigger fan 0:05:53.000 --> 0:05:55.640 of Beyonce. To my wife, I know that they exist, right, 0:05:56.040 --> 0:05:59.800 but I can't imagine a bigger fan. Beyonce can't sell everything. 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:03.039 She can't sell anything, and we've seen ample evidence of that. 0:06:03.200 --> 0:06:03.599 Right. 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:09.720 Beyonce can move the stock ticket for LVMH, She's done it. 0:06:10.920 --> 0:06:14.440 But Beyonce can't get rid of at Ivy Park merchandise. 0:06:15.880 --> 0:06:20.480 Beyonce can't sell a twenty five dollar bikini for H 0:06:20.560 --> 0:06:22.800 and M, no matter how great she looks in it. 0:06:23.040 --> 0:06:25.280 I remember seeing when H and M and Beyonce got 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:27.960 into business. We were still in midtown, and they had 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:30.560 these beautiful, you know, out of home units and it's 0:06:30.560 --> 0:06:33.360 Beyonce laid out in a swimsuit, Like, who's. 0:06:33.120 --> 0:06:33.520 Mad at that? 0:06:35.080 --> 0:06:38.920 But the truth of the matter is that the brand 0:06:38.920 --> 0:06:41.080 that she has built and what it is that people 0:06:41.080 --> 0:06:44.960 are responding to, she is fulfilling a need. She is 0:06:45.000 --> 0:06:49.880 Princess Diana for this generation. And nobody wants Princess Diana 0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:55.120 to wear a twenty five dollar bikini. Nobody's influence When 0:06:55.320 --> 0:06:58.200 Princess Diana, where's a twenty five dollar bikini? Doesn't matter 0:06:58.240 --> 0:07:00.760 how good she looks that's not the point. The point 0:07:00.880 --> 0:07:05.720 is Tiffany and Beyonce absolutely h and M and Beyonce 0:07:05.839 --> 0:07:06.599 absolutely not. 0:07:07.360 --> 0:07:09.400 And I think it's I think it is. 0:07:10.400 --> 0:07:14.120 There is a there's a degree of elasticity that any brand, 0:07:14.160 --> 0:07:16.600 whether it's you as a person or you as a 0:07:16.600 --> 0:07:19.640 corporate giant with just this just a logo and a wordmark, 0:07:20.240 --> 0:07:22.680 there's a certain degree of elasticity that you can accommodate. 0:07:23.040 --> 0:07:25.360 And then where you see people go wrong is when 0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:28.920 they try to stretch beyond that and they either alienate 0:07:28.960 --> 0:07:34.720 the people that originally embrace the brand. I think we've 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:40.280 seen that. I'm sure your views will remember, uh, a 0:07:40.320 --> 0:07:44.560 certain beauty brand that came to market looking a lot 0:07:44.600 --> 0:07:46.120 different than the way that they grew up. 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:46.520 Right. 0:07:48.440 --> 0:07:51.280 And then I also think that there is there is taste, right, 0:07:51.360 --> 0:07:57.120 so are there beyond taste? There is expertise, and someone's 0:07:57.400 --> 0:08:01.000 perceived expertise in a given space really licenses them to 0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:04.480 be a credence bearer for other things that they may 0:08:04.520 --> 0:08:08.560 be selling or maybe just referring you to. But the 0:08:08.720 --> 0:08:12.040 but the corpus of what you're saying one agree with, 0:08:12.080 --> 0:08:16.720 which is take your audience everywhere you can by yourself, 0:08:17.320 --> 0:08:20.240 never let a platform, never let a third party be 0:08:20.280 --> 0:08:24.200 an intermediary in between you and your audience, and you 0:08:24.240 --> 0:08:27.640 will have not just fans, you will have customers, and 0:08:27.680 --> 0:08:31.000 you'll figure out from those customers what you are licensed 0:08:31.080 --> 0:08:32.960 to broke. 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:33.160 Her to them. 0:08:34.000 --> 0:08:35.640 I like that And I didn't prepare this question, but 0:08:35.679 --> 0:08:37.840 you got me thinking about you know, we do see 0:08:37.880 --> 0:08:41.040 Beyonce as like a princess Diana, but then I think 0:08:41.040 --> 0:08:43.760 about you got me thinking about Rihanna. Like, Rihanna can 0:08:43.840 --> 0:08:47.480 probably sell anything. If she came out with notebooks for school, 0:08:47.679 --> 0:08:49.880 she could probably sell a million to those a day, 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:54.080 and you know, and she's shown it in various vertical verticals. 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:56.520 And she could also probably also move the stock ticket 0:08:56.600 --> 0:08:57.599 on Lvmas. 0:08:58.080 --> 0:09:01.320 So what is what is what's the difference? Yeah? 0:09:01.360 --> 0:09:04.040 I think Rihanna actually does have more elasticity to her brand. 0:09:04.080 --> 0:09:06.760 I think that is tied to the fact that Rihanna 0:09:06.800 --> 0:09:08.760 is not as exceptional talent as Beyonce. 0:09:09.679 --> 0:09:15.640 Hot take. One of the things that we admire about Rihanna. 0:09:15.440 --> 0:09:19.160 Is that as gorgeous as she is, as tasteful as 0:09:19.160 --> 0:09:21.720 she is, as poised as she is as this that 0:09:21.880 --> 0:09:26.559 the other that raw talent does not feel supernatural Beyonce does, 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:32.360 and so there's an accessibility to her that I don't 0:09:32.480 --> 0:09:34.800 think beyond you know, it's like. 0:09:37.480 --> 0:09:39.760 The Serenas of the. 0:09:39.720 --> 0:09:43.079 World, the Beyonces, and I think there's probably we might 0:09:43.120 --> 0:09:46.000 not have long enough to get into, but there's probably 0:09:46.040 --> 0:09:48.880 something with a gender line here as well. 0:09:49.440 --> 0:09:50.120 But there are. 0:09:50.000 --> 0:10:01.880 Certain people who who's undeniable talent or untraceable set of 0:10:01.960 --> 0:10:05.199 skills puts them so far out of reach that they 0:10:05.240 --> 0:10:08.880 get to be respected, admired and aspired to, but they 0:10:08.880 --> 0:10:13.640 do not feel approachable, followable, and ultimately they don't have 0:10:13.679 --> 0:10:15.120 brands to say I can do that. 0:10:15.320 --> 0:10:20.440 They have brands to say wouldn't that be dope? Yeah? 0:10:20.520 --> 0:10:23.200 So I feel like overall, Rihanna is a little bit 0:10:23.200 --> 0:10:29.760 closer to the ground, and I also think frankly, she 0:10:30.120 --> 0:10:34.680 has shown a level of investment in all of these 0:10:34.760 --> 0:10:38.120 other businesses that she's been running that is unlike Beyonce. 0:10:38.280 --> 0:10:41.160 Beyonce will I'm not gonna say well she will always 0:10:41.160 --> 0:10:44.440 be that would be unfair, But Beyonce is still an entertainer, 0:10:44.880 --> 0:10:50.040 right and very much like Jay, Rihanna has taken on 0:10:50.120 --> 0:10:52.960 the mantle of being a mobile and so there's just 0:10:53.080 --> 0:10:57.079 naturally more license in that identity, she might have got 0:10:57.080 --> 0:11:01.400 famous for being a kind of okay saying and a 0:11:01.440 --> 0:11:06.400 great entertainer, but today she's known as a. 0:11:06.480 --> 0:11:12.000 Mobile Yeah, it was probably Snapchat as a distribution channel 0:11:12.000 --> 0:11:15.480 who changed advertising for everybody when they got rid of 0:11:15.520 --> 0:11:21.760 the edited, you know, makeup produced thing. Are are we 0:11:22.440 --> 0:11:26.320 have we grown tired of traditional advertising produced content in 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:30.760 that way? Or is it just no creativity? 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:32.600 You know? I don't. 0:11:32.679 --> 0:11:35.400 I don't have a tendency to I don't think that 0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:37.520 most people. And this is tough when you're twenty years 0:11:37.520 --> 0:11:40.520 steeped in this industry, you know, you live your whole 0:11:40.520 --> 0:11:42.240 life and like your friends that drop. 0:11:42.040 --> 0:11:44.920 By then we're all kind of all the same in 0:11:44.920 --> 0:11:45.400 that respect. 0:11:45.840 --> 0:11:48.479 But my hunches and most people don't make those distinctions 0:11:48.480 --> 0:11:53.000 about advertising versus the content versus influencer stuff versus what 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:56.560 their neighbor is making. Good is good is good? And 0:11:56.640 --> 0:11:58.640 to the extent that you can add polished to good, 0:11:58.760 --> 0:12:01.520 like the high auction values to good, I think it 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:04.240 just makes it better. It might make it more visible, 0:12:04.280 --> 0:12:08.400 it might make it more sticky, it might allow for 0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:13.120 more layers of your storytelling, brand development to come forward. 0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:17.040 But at the core of this there's plenty of advertising 0:12:17.320 --> 0:12:20.880 that is indistinguishable from content, and it's just pure value, right, 0:12:20.920 --> 0:12:24.440 It's editorial value, it's intellectual value. And there's plenty of 0:12:24.480 --> 0:12:28.400 content that is. 0:12:26.840 --> 0:12:28.559 Not really anything more than advertising. 0:12:29.280 --> 0:12:36.640 Right Tho, the dividing lines between them is really more 0:12:36.640 --> 0:12:40.920 an industry thing than it is a consumer thing. In 0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:43.800 other words, who paid for it, how is it distributed? 0:12:45.640 --> 0:12:48.000 Is it paid to be distributed? And if so, who's 0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:50.720 behind that? Those are all questions that have very real 0:12:50.840 --> 0:12:56.960 that create these very real synapses, sorry, distinctions between these 0:12:57.000 --> 0:12:59.120 categories like this is an ad and this is content, 0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:01.719 and this is something else, this is an obituary, and 0:13:01.720 --> 0:13:05.000 blah blah blah. But for most people, you know, think 0:13:05.000 --> 0:13:07.200 about the way that you consume media, right, You're consuming 0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:10.400 media on a couple of whether you're scrolling through it 0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:13.480 or you're kind of browsing through it, like on YouTube, 0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:18.280 you're bumping into content that has all of these different 0:13:18.440 --> 0:13:24.280 types of motivations at all points in your day. And 0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:26.400 I think this stuff is sticky. It kind of doesn't 0:13:26.400 --> 0:13:29.400 matter if Coca Cola is behind it or your homeboy 0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:30.000 is behind it. 0:13:30.080 --> 0:13:31.360 The stuff is sticky, is sticky. 0:13:32.080 --> 0:13:35.839 I think that equalization is part of, you know, our 0:13:35.920 --> 0:13:36.720 central thesis. 0:13:36.720 --> 0:13:37.640 This is why. 0:13:40.480 --> 0:13:46.080 Your attention minutes you will your attention minutes are increasingly 0:13:46.120 --> 0:13:49.080 budgeted by you. You don't have to interact with content 0:13:49.160 --> 0:13:53.800 you don't want to increasingly sell, and so so content 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:55.800 that wants to sell you something has to get more 0:13:56.000 --> 0:13:59.839 persuasive and more worthy of your attention. I think that's 0:13:59.840 --> 0:14:02.199 probably a good thing. And that's certainly the end of 0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:03.920 the pool that we like to swim. Man Like, I'm 0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:06.960 not here to tell you about the pepperone chini muffin 0:14:07.080 --> 0:14:10.080 is coming from Papa John Like, that ain't even my business. 0:14:11.360 --> 0:14:13.880 I'm here to put something in front of you that 0:14:14.240 --> 0:14:17.120 makes you feel seen or heard in the way that 0:14:17.160 --> 0:14:19.840 you didn't feel before. I want to put something in 0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:21.440 front of you, or put you in an environment, or 0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:24.040 give you an experience. It gives you something noteworthy to 0:14:24.080 --> 0:14:27.920 talk about at various functions you go to that's worthy 0:14:27.920 --> 0:14:30.240 of you taking a picture or taking a video within 0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:33.520 and bragging that I was there. That's the business that 0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:36.480 all of us who are trying to push culture forward 0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:41.520 for whatever economic reward, that's what we're that's what we're 0:14:41.560 --> 0:14:41.960 here to do. 0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:42.360 And so. 0:14:44.400 --> 0:14:46.160 Yeah, I don't I don't think. I don't think a 0:14:46.280 --> 0:14:50.040 really really well done cheesy pool for her pizza hut 0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:53.320 or her little diseases is changing anybody's mind about what 0:14:53.360 --> 0:14:54.360 pizza they get to buy. 0:14:55.440 --> 0:14:59.320 Yeah, when I started doing public speaking, I learned this. 0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:02.360 You know, hack or tip or whatever you want to say. 0:15:02.400 --> 0:15:04.960 It's you talk to one person at a time, no 0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:06.680 matter how many people are in the room. You make 0:15:06.720 --> 0:15:11.560 connections with one person at a time, and therefore everybody 0:15:11.600 --> 0:15:15.040 else in the room connects. Why is that do you 0:15:15.080 --> 0:15:18.520 think from a marketing and advertising perspective? And does it translate? 0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:22.000 Absolutely? It does in my practice. 0:15:22.080 --> 0:15:25.600 So one of the things that I use to evaluate work, 0:15:25.640 --> 0:15:28.080 and I've been very public about this is a reciped 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:30.160 It was given to me by y'all Sinbek, not given 0:15:30.200 --> 0:15:32.560 to me like hand to hand, given to me because 0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:34.920 I was always a fan most and he goes it's 0:15:34.920 --> 0:15:38.320 commonplace in different, intimate and distant, fresh than in the infant, 0:15:38.400 --> 0:15:39.200 Fresh than the infant. 0:15:39.240 --> 0:15:40.920 Is what everybody thinks of is creativity. 0:15:40.960 --> 0:15:44.520 It's like they de viv makes something memorable, commonplace in 0:15:44.520 --> 0:15:46.880 different We saved for a different podcast. But what you're 0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:51.680 really talking about is intimate and distant, right the intimacy. 0:15:52.120 --> 0:15:54.760 The reason that these two things need to be in 0:15:54.960 --> 0:15:57.680 balance with one another is because things ultimately do have 0:15:57.800 --> 0:16:00.480 to scale, right, So you do you are ultimately on 0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:03.200 the hook to address that total audience. But the focus 0:16:03.280 --> 0:16:06.440 on the one person and making them feel like there's a. 0:16:06.360 --> 0:16:08.120 Connection is. 0:16:10.240 --> 0:16:15.040 In our practice, the one of the things that differentiates, 0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:17.160 i should say our practice from a lot of others. 0:16:17.400 --> 0:16:20.440 So a lot of advertising is about, hey, let's find 0:16:20.440 --> 0:16:22.640 the most neutral thing, the biggest tent that the most 0:16:22.640 --> 0:16:25.920 people can get under. So you start looking for you 0:16:26.000 --> 0:16:28.160 create all of these segments that may or may not 0:16:28.320 --> 0:16:31.240 have you know, real value to people in terms of 0:16:31.240 --> 0:16:32.280 way that they live their life. 0:16:32.480 --> 0:16:34.480 Right. So like I got the soccer moms, and I 0:16:34.520 --> 0:16:38.720 got the football dads, and I got the like black kids, 0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:39.280 and I got. 0:16:39.160 --> 0:16:42.520 The Latin people in wheelchairs, do this, that and the other. 0:16:42.560 --> 0:16:44.320 And then you try to come up with a message 0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:46.160 it cuts across all of those. 0:16:46.960 --> 0:16:49.440 Categories and you're like, this is meaningful to everybody, right, 0:16:49.520 --> 0:16:51.160 and this is how you get that big top creative 0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:53.840 and everything. This is like the majority of what you 0:16:53.840 --> 0:16:56.760 see on the Super Bowls, like everybody gets everybody knows 0:16:56.800 --> 0:17:02.200 the words too sweet Caroline First of all, nah be 0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:06.359 we don't know the words this week, Caroline, but you know, 0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:12.080 let's go that hege hegemonic privilege, privilege, right. The desire 0:17:12.200 --> 0:17:16.720 to create these things that are designed to fit some 0:17:17.480 --> 0:17:21.919 fanciful average of people is fundamentally flawed in our opinion. 0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:24.520 And so when we study the greats and the people 0:17:24.600 --> 0:17:28.200 to really lead culture, it's never I shouldn't say, it's 0:17:28.200 --> 0:17:30.280 never in sync. Was a great example of this. Britney 0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:32.720 Spears is a great example of this. You got a 0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:34.960 team of people that can observe patterns, they seem to 0:17:34.960 --> 0:17:37.240 be working all these other channels, put them together into 0:17:37.280 --> 0:17:39.160 one package and it looks like this and you present it. 0:17:39.440 --> 0:17:43.480 But look around you. Now look at the titans of 0:17:43.560 --> 0:17:46.320 pop culture. Now, did they grow out of very very 0:17:46.320 --> 0:17:47.560 specific niches. 0:17:47.760 --> 0:17:53.040 Yes? Did they come stop with something that was appropriate 0:17:53.040 --> 0:17:53.960 for all or did. 0:17:53.920 --> 0:17:57.520 They recruit a small hive, have that hive grow and 0:17:57.600 --> 0:18:01.679 influence and have that high that ultimately advocate on their 0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:03.880 behalf That this is something you need to be turned 0:18:03.920 --> 0:18:04.080 on to. 0:18:04.119 --> 0:18:06.360 I don't care whether you're talking about Drake bad Bunny. 0:18:06.680 --> 0:18:07.560 This that the other. 0:18:10.200 --> 0:18:15.080 The modern marketers desire to create something that is pre 0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:21.879 rinted for the broad majority of people is a fundamental flaw. 0:18:21.960 --> 0:18:25.600 There's nowhere you can look in pop culture, including especially 0:18:25.600 --> 0:18:28.400 in America, our politics. You can look across Europe see 0:18:28.440 --> 0:18:28.880 the same thing. 0:18:28.880 --> 0:18:29.560 In politics. 0:18:29.880 --> 0:18:33.479 It's getting more niche, it's getting more specific. And so 0:18:33.520 --> 0:18:36.840 to the degree that you can build something that is 0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:43.960 in service of a small but responsive group, you can 0:18:44.040 --> 0:18:46.360 ultimately scale that the same way that you can make 0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:48.600 eye contact with somebody in a room and you can 0:18:48.640 --> 0:18:50.840 scale the import of what you're saying to everybody in 0:18:50.880 --> 0:18:53.640 that room. And there's no greater example of that than 0:18:53.800 --> 0:18:56.159 what the agency has been able to do with beats 0:18:56.240 --> 0:18:59.960 I mean, like resuscitating beats. A lot of people don't 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:03.720 know it. Beats by Dre was bound for the scrap heap. 0:19:03.920 --> 0:19:06.680 I mean, it wasn't. It wasn't doing well as a business. 0:19:07.400 --> 0:19:09.360 And so when you have this moment where we get 0:19:09.359 --> 0:19:12.240 to defribrillate the brand and speak on behalf of black 0:19:12.280 --> 0:19:14.560 youth and do this piece of work called you Love 0:19:14.640 --> 0:19:18.160 Me that really resets and asks the question at all 0:19:18.280 --> 0:19:21.520 that everybody black, certainly, and then everybody that really was 0:19:21.520 --> 0:19:23.639 paying attention was had on the tip of their tongues 0:19:23.640 --> 0:19:25.840 like you love black cults, why don't you love black people? 0:19:26.200 --> 0:19:27.760 Where you can turn the brand in that kind of 0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:33.280 megaphone for the youth segment of twelve percent of the 0:19:33.359 --> 0:19:38.320 American population. There are plenty of people in advertising that 0:19:38.400 --> 0:19:41.160 would tell you, oh, we're being too tight, like this 0:19:41.200 --> 0:19:44.720 isn't for can't we get it like a little room 0:19:44.800 --> 0:19:47.200 year so it can include everybody? And you start whittling 0:19:47.200 --> 0:19:49.760 it down and you affect the purity of that message, 0:19:49.800 --> 0:19:53.800 and you can't create the level of advocacy that three 0:19:53.880 --> 0:19:57.240 years later, you look and Beats is now in the 0:19:57.359 --> 0:20:02.719 Verizon Holiday Bundle, and Paul G. Bodi and women from 0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:07.520 SNL are out there selling Beats as a carrot to 0:20:07.600 --> 0:20:10.119 get you to buy a two year Verizon plan in 0:20:10.200 --> 0:20:11.400 flyover states. 0:20:12.119 --> 0:20:15.520 You will ultimately be able to achieve. 0:20:16.720 --> 0:20:21.480 Marketplace dominance through an ethnic insight, a cultural insight, or even. 0:20:21.240 --> 0:20:23.240 In some cases, geographic insite. 0:20:23.560 --> 0:20:28.320 It is about, it is not about. 0:20:28.600 --> 0:20:31.440 Afro Tech is a global gathering where inclusive tech companies 0:20:31.480 --> 0:20:33.840 meet innovators. It's the only tech event you. 0:20:33.800 --> 0:20:34.400 Need all year. 0:20:34.600 --> 0:20:38.680 Get ready for afro Tech twenty twenty three in Austin, Texas, November. 0:20:38.200 --> 0:20:40.040 First through the fifth. 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Visit afrotech dot com slash conference to 0:21:12.320 --> 0:21:16.520 learn more. Where would you say the concept of influencer 0:21:16.800 --> 0:21:17.680 is going. 0:21:20.480 --> 0:21:21.400