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Speaker 1: Afrotech is a global gathering where inclusive tech companies meet innovators.

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Speaker 1: Get ready for Afrotech twenty twenty three in Austin, Texas,

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Speaker 3: Place to be.

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Speaker 1: The massive corporate layoffs of twenty twenty two and twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty three have affected our community in a big way.

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Speaker 3: To learn more.

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Speaker 1: I'm Will Lucas and this is Black Tech, Green Money.

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Speaker 1: Chaucer Barnes' Chief marketing officer of Translation Plus United Masters,

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Speaker 1: the parent company of a war Rening creative agency, translation

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Speaker 1: and artist services platform United Masters in creating a new

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Speaker 1: normal for the way brands and creators enlikenment and trade

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Speaker 1: cultural capital.

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Speaker 3: Chaucer applies tools and lessons.

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Speaker 1: From every chapter of his life as a media planner,

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Speaker 1: brand strategist, creative director, partnership architect, and independent musician. Chaucer

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Speaker 1: has said, in the early days of translation, people weren't

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Speaker 1: talking about culture in the context of advertising. This interested me,

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Speaker 1: so I asked, what has changed and what impact has

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Speaker 1: embracing culture had on the metrics business cares about sales,

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Speaker 1: and what impact has this focus had on culture itself.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's definitely true.

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Speaker 4: I mean I've been around a company for close to

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Speaker 4: twelve years now, and when I say that, when I say,

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Speaker 4: you know, culture wasn't mentioned in the in reference to advertising,

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Speaker 4: it's because when we were saying it early almost Color

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Speaker 4: twenty twelve, it felt really exceptional.

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Speaker 2: It was a moment. It was it was an.

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Speaker 4: Expression of differentiation at the time. The idea that you know,

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Speaker 4: making people aware of these certain products existing at these

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Speaker 4: certain price points, that these retailers had anything to do

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Speaker 4: with the business of fandom or of social identity, How

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Speaker 4: it's changed, and why it's changed. I guess I should

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Speaker 4: start with is it's changed because people hit the ceiling

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Speaker 4: of growth and they felt it. They knew it, right,

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Speaker 4: So you could look at that in the kind of

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Speaker 4: individual cases of think about Budweiser, right, Budweiser at the

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Speaker 4: time that they got into business with translation, they completely

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Speaker 4: stalled out, Here's America's beer. Only one in three twenty

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Speaker 4: one and twenty seven year olds that ever tasted America's beer.

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Speaker 4: And so you have these huge, kind of ubiquitous brand

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Speaker 4: expectations and this wilting undercurrent or sorry, this wilting audience

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Speaker 4: underneath that brand that just doesn't care. And so the sales,

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Speaker 4: the metrics that they really cared about in that case,

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Speaker 4: sales and their ability to move through various on premise

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Speaker 4: off premise retailers, that was the forcing function that made

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Speaker 4: them adopt new proxies for that success.

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Speaker 2: So it's not that the metrics change.

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Speaker 4: In other words, people to make beers still want to

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Speaker 4: sell beer, people to make cars still want to sell cars,

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Speaker 4: et cetera. It's that they see the proxy for that

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Speaker 4: performance being better measured in adoption rate engagement rate. I mean,

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Speaker 4: think about the idea of engagement rate as you know

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Speaker 4: that came to popularity in the late or in the

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Speaker 4: early teens, let's call it two thousand and eight to

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Speaker 4: twenty fourteen. Somewhere the entire advertising industry had come to maturity,

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Speaker 4: full maturity, without any kind of notion of what consumers

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Speaker 4: on the other end of that message do. An engagement

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Speaker 4: rate was the first thing anybody started to measure. It

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Speaker 4: was like, all right, so I did this, and then

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Speaker 4: they did that, and they did that became so important

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Speaker 4: because sheer delivery. Right, this is my impression load, this

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Speaker 4: is my impression count. Okay, but how many people click?

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Speaker 2: Okay? But how many people took a step? Okay? But

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Speaker 2: how many people shared?

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Speaker 4: That grammar of consumer engagement in the work that you

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Speaker 4: put forward was all part of people having to come

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Speaker 4: around to the fact that you can't win without creating

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Speaker 4: a rational preference for your product, service, or your brand values.

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Speaker 4: And you shouldn't be trying to do that in a

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Speaker 4: direct response way. You should be trying to do that

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Speaker 4: in a communal way. And then there was just evidence,

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Speaker 4: it was just ample evidence everywhere that the things that

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Speaker 4: were dominating pop culture were no longer the fruit of

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Speaker 4: a couple of gatekeepers. It was really an empowered populace.

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Speaker 4: And so I think the confluence of all of those

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Speaker 4: things have been a force and function for every single

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Speaker 4: marketer to not get fired by appreciating that their job

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Speaker 4: is not just to make everybody aware, their job is

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Speaker 4: to drive affinity.

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Speaker 2: And then ultimately action.

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Speaker 1: You said a word, they're communal, and I think of

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Speaker 1: a community in this way. So we've had this conversation

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Speaker 1: a few times on this podcast where we've discussed the

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Speaker 1: idea of if you're just directly trying to sell without

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Speaker 1: having built a brand or community first, you might be successful,

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Speaker 1: but it's not a sustainable way to build something. So

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Speaker 1: what we've talked about is, if you can build your

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Speaker 1: brand and build a community of people who will follow

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Speaker 1: you anywhere you can sell anything. Then what do you

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Speaker 1: say to that concept?

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Speaker 4: Well, I do think that there are limitations on selling

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Speaker 4: anything that are frankly shaped by your brand, Like the

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Speaker 4: contours of your brand dictate what you can and cannot sell.

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Speaker 4: I'm about to take my wife down to Nola to

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Speaker 4: see what was supposed to be the last stop on

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Speaker 4: a renaissance tour, and I can't imagine a bigger fan

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Speaker 4: of Beyonce. To my wife, I know that they exist, right,

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Speaker 4: but I can't imagine a bigger fan. Beyonce can't sell everything.

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Speaker 4: She can't sell anything, and we've seen ample evidence of that.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 4: Beyonce can move the stock ticket for LVMH, She's done it.

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Speaker 4: But Beyonce can't get rid of at Ivy Park merchandise.

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Speaker 4: Beyonce can't sell a twenty five dollar bikini for H

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Speaker 4: and M, no matter how great she looks in it.

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Speaker 4: I remember seeing when H and M and Beyonce got

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Speaker 4: into business. We were still in midtown, and they had

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Speaker 4: these beautiful, you know, out of home units and it's

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Speaker 4: Beyonce laid out in a swimsuit, Like, who's.

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Speaker 2: Mad at that?

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Speaker 4: But the truth of the matter is that the brand

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Speaker 4: that she has built and what it is that people

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Speaker 4: are responding to, she is fulfilling a need. She is

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Speaker 4: Princess Diana for this generation. And nobody wants Princess Diana

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Speaker 4: to wear a twenty five dollar bikini. Nobody's influence When

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Speaker 4: Princess Diana, where's a twenty five dollar bikini? Doesn't matter

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Speaker 4: how good she looks that's not the point. The point

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Speaker 4: is Tiffany and Beyonce absolutely h and M and Beyonce

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Speaker 4: absolutely not.

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Speaker 2: And I think it's I think it is.

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Speaker 4: There is a there's a degree of elasticity that any brand,

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Speaker 4: whether it's you as a person or you as a

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Speaker 4: corporate giant with just this just a logo and a wordmark,

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Speaker 4: there's a certain degree of elasticity that you can accommodate.

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Speaker 4: And then where you see people go wrong is when

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Speaker 4: they try to stretch beyond that and they either alienate

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Speaker 4: the people that originally embrace the brand. I think we've

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Speaker 4: seen that. I'm sure your views will remember, uh, a

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Speaker 4: certain beauty brand that came to market looking a lot

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Speaker 4: different than the way that they grew up.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 4: And then I also think that there is there is taste, right,

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Speaker 4: so are there beyond taste? There is expertise, and someone's

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Speaker 4: perceived expertise in a given space really licenses them to

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Speaker 4: be a credence bearer for other things that they may

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Speaker 4: be selling or maybe just referring you to. But the

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Speaker 4: but the corpus of what you're saying one agree with,

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Speaker 4: which is take your audience everywhere you can by yourself,

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Speaker 4: never let a platform, never let a third party be

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Speaker 4: an intermediary in between you and your audience, and you

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Speaker 4: will have not just fans, you will have customers, and

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Speaker 4: you'll figure out from those customers what you are licensed

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Speaker 4: to broke.

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Speaker 2: Her to them.

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Speaker 1: I like that And I didn't prepare this question, but

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Speaker 1: you got me thinking about you know, we do see

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Speaker 1: Beyonce as like a princess Diana, but then I think

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Speaker 1: about you got me thinking about Rihanna. Like, Rihanna can

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Speaker 1: probably sell anything. If she came out with notebooks for school,

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Speaker 1: she could probably sell a million to those a day,

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Speaker 1: and you know, and she's shown it in various vertical verticals.

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Speaker 1: And she could also probably also move the stock ticket

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Speaker 1: on Lvmas.

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Speaker 2: So what is what is what's the difference? Yeah?

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Speaker 4: I think Rihanna actually does have more elasticity to her brand.

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Speaker 4: I think that is tied to the fact that Rihanna

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Speaker 4: is not as exceptional talent as Beyonce.

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Speaker 2: Hot take. One of the things that we admire about Rihanna.

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Speaker 4: Is that as gorgeous as she is, as tasteful as

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Speaker 4: she is, as poised as she is as this that

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Speaker 4: the other that raw talent does not feel supernatural Beyonce does,

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Speaker 4: and so there's an accessibility to her that I don't

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Speaker 4: think beyond you know, it's like.

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Speaker 2: The Serenas of the.

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Speaker 4: World, the Beyonces, and I think there's probably we might

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Speaker 4: not have long enough to get into, but there's probably

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Speaker 4: something with a gender line here as well.

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Speaker 2: But there are.

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Speaker 4: Certain people who who's undeniable talent or untraceable set of

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Speaker 4: skills puts them so far out of reach that they

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Speaker 4: get to be respected, admired and aspired to, but they

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Speaker 4: do not feel approachable, followable, and ultimately they don't have

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Speaker 4: brands to say I can do that.

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Speaker 2: They have brands to say wouldn't that be dope? Yeah?

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Speaker 4: So I feel like overall, Rihanna is a little bit

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Speaker 4: closer to the ground, and I also think frankly, she

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Speaker 4: has shown a level of investment in all of these

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Speaker 4: other businesses that she's been running that is unlike Beyonce.

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Speaker 4: Beyonce will I'm not gonna say well she will always

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Speaker 4: be that would be unfair, But Beyonce is still an entertainer,

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Speaker 4: right and very much like Jay, Rihanna has taken on

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Speaker 4: the mantle of being a mobile and so there's just

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Speaker 4: naturally more license in that identity, she might have got

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Speaker 4: famous for being a kind of okay saying and a

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Speaker 4: great entertainer, but today she's known as a.

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Speaker 1: Mobile Yeah, it was probably Snapchat as a distribution channel

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Speaker 1: who changed advertising for everybody when they got rid of

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Speaker 1: the edited, you know, makeup produced thing. Are are we

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Speaker 1: have we grown tired of traditional advertising produced content in

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Speaker 1: that way? Or is it just no creativity?

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Speaker 2: You know? I don't.

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Speaker 4: I don't have a tendency to I don't think that

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Speaker 4: most people. And this is tough when you're twenty years

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Speaker 4: steeped in this industry, you know, you live your whole

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Speaker 4: life and like your friends that drop.

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Speaker 2: By then we're all kind of all the same in

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Speaker 2: that respect.

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Speaker 4: But my hunches and most people don't make those distinctions

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Speaker 4: about advertising versus the content versus influencer stuff versus what

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Speaker 4: their neighbor is making. Good is good is good? And

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Speaker 4: to the extent that you can add polished to good,

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Speaker 4: like the high auction values to good, I think it

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Speaker 4: just makes it better. It might make it more visible,

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Speaker 4: it might make it more sticky, it might allow for

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Speaker 4: more layers of your storytelling, brand development to come forward.

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Speaker 4: But at the core of this there's plenty of advertising

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Speaker 4: that is indistinguishable from content, and it's just pure value, right,

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Speaker 4: It's editorial value, it's intellectual value. And there's plenty of

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Speaker 4: content that is.

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Speaker 2: Not really anything more than advertising.

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Speaker 4: Right Tho, the dividing lines between them is really more

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Speaker 4: an industry thing than it is a consumer thing. In

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Speaker 4: other words, who paid for it, how is it distributed?

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Speaker 4: Is it paid to be distributed? And if so, who's

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Speaker 4: behind that? Those are all questions that have very real

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Speaker 4: that create these very real synapses, sorry, distinctions between these

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Speaker 4: categories like this is an ad and this is content,

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Speaker 4: and this is something else, this is an obituary, and

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Speaker 4: blah blah blah. But for most people, you know, think

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Speaker 4: about the way that you consume media, right, You're consuming

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Speaker 4: media on a couple of whether you're scrolling through it

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Speaker 4: or you're kind of browsing through it, like on YouTube,

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Speaker 4: you're bumping into content that has all of these different

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Speaker 4: types of motivations at all points in your day. And

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Speaker 4: I think this stuff is sticky. It kind of doesn't

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Speaker 4: matter if Coca Cola is behind it or your homeboy

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Speaker 4: is behind it.

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Speaker 2: The stuff is sticky, is sticky.

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Speaker 4: I think that equalization is part of, you know, our

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Speaker 4: central thesis.

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Speaker 2: This is why.

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Speaker 4: Your attention minutes you will your attention minutes are increasingly

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Speaker 4: budgeted by you. You don't have to interact with content

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Speaker 4: you don't want to increasingly sell, and so so content

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Speaker 4: that wants to sell you something has to get more

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Speaker 4: persuasive and more worthy of your attention. I think that's

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Speaker 4: probably a good thing. And that's certainly the end of

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Speaker 4: the pool that we like to swim. Man Like, I'm

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Speaker 4: not here to tell you about the pepperone chini muffin

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Speaker 4: is coming from Papa John Like, that ain't even my business.

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Speaker 4: I'm here to put something in front of you that

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Speaker 4: makes you feel seen or heard in the way that

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Speaker 4: you didn't feel before. I want to put something in

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Speaker 4: front of you, or put you in an environment, or

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Speaker 4: give you an experience. It gives you something noteworthy to

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Speaker 4: talk about at various functions you go to that's worthy

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Speaker 4: of you taking a picture or taking a video within

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Speaker 4: and bragging that I was there. That's the business that

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Speaker 4: all of us who are trying to push culture forward

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Speaker 4: for whatever economic reward, that's what we're that's what we're

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Speaker 4: here to do.

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Speaker 2: And so.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't I don't think. I don't think a

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Speaker 4: really really well done cheesy pool for her pizza hut

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Speaker 4: or her little diseases is changing anybody's mind about what

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Speaker 4: pizza they get to buy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, when I started doing public speaking, I learned this.

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Speaker 1: You know, hack or tip or whatever you want to say.

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Speaker 1: It's you talk to one person at a time, no

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Speaker 1: matter how many people are in the room. You make

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Speaker 1: connections with one person at a time, and therefore everybody

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Speaker 1: else in the room connects. Why is that do you

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Speaker 1: think from a marketing and advertising perspective? And does it translate?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely? It does in my practice.

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Speaker 4: So one of the things that I use to evaluate work,

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Speaker 4: and I've been very public about this is a reciped

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Speaker 4: It was given to me by y'all Sinbek, not given

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Speaker 4: to me like hand to hand, given to me because

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Speaker 4: I was always a fan most and he goes it's

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Speaker 4: commonplace in different, intimate and distant, fresh than in the infant,

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Speaker 4: Fresh than the infant.

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Speaker 2: Is what everybody thinks of is creativity.

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Speaker 4: It's like they de viv makes something memorable, commonplace in

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Speaker 4: different We saved for a different podcast. But what you're

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Speaker 4: really talking about is intimate and distant, right the intimacy.

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Speaker 4: The reason that these two things need to be in

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Speaker 4: balance with one another is because things ultimately do have

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Speaker 4: to scale, right, So you do you are ultimately on

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Speaker 4: the hook to address that total audience. But the focus

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Speaker 4: on the one person and making them feel like there's a.

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Speaker 2: Connection is.

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Speaker 4: In our practice, the one of the things that differentiates,

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Speaker 4: i should say our practice from a lot of others.

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Speaker 4: So a lot of advertising is about, hey, let's find

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Speaker 4: the most neutral thing, the biggest tent that the most

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Speaker 4: people can get under. So you start looking for you

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Speaker 4: create all of these segments that may or may not

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Speaker 4: have you know, real value to people in terms of

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Speaker 4: way that they live their life.

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Speaker 2: Right. So like I got the soccer moms, and I

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Speaker 2: got the football dads, and I got the like black kids,

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Speaker 2: and I got.

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Speaker 4: The Latin people in wheelchairs, do this, that and the other.

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Speaker 2: And then you try to come up with a message

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Speaker 2: it cuts across all of those.

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Speaker 4: Categories and you're like, this is meaningful to everybody, right,

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Speaker 4: and this is how you get that big top creative

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Speaker 4: and everything. This is like the majority of what you

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Speaker 4: see on the Super Bowls, like everybody gets everybody knows

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Speaker 4: the words too sweet Caroline First of all, nah be

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Speaker 4: we don't know the words this week, Caroline, but you know,

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Speaker 4: let's go that hege hegemonic privilege, privilege, right. The desire

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Speaker 4: to create these things that are designed to fit some

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Speaker 4: fanciful average of people is fundamentally flawed in our opinion.

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Speaker 4: And so when we study the greats and the people

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Speaker 4: to really lead culture, it's never I shouldn't say, it's

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Speaker 4: never in sync. Was a great example of this. Britney

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Speaker 4: Spears is a great example of this. You got a

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Speaker 4: team of people that can observe patterns, they seem to

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Speaker 4: be working all these other channels, put them together into

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Speaker 4: one package and it looks like this and you present it.

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Speaker 4: But look around you. Now look at the titans of

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Speaker 4: pop culture. Now, did they grow out of very very

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Speaker 4: specific niches.

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Speaker 2: Yes? Did they come stop with something that was appropriate

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Speaker 2: for all or did.

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Speaker 4: They recruit a small hive, have that hive grow and

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Speaker 4: influence and have that high that ultimately advocate on their

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Speaker 4: behalf That this is something you need to be turned

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Speaker 4: on to.

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Speaker 2: I don't care whether you're talking about Drake bad Bunny.

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Speaker 2: This that the other.

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Speaker 4: The modern marketers desire to create something that is pre

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Speaker 4: rinted for the broad majority of people is a fundamental flaw.

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Speaker 4: There's nowhere you can look in pop culture, including especially

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Speaker 4: in America, our politics. You can look across Europe see

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Speaker 4: the same thing.

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Speaker 2: In politics.

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Speaker 4: It's getting more niche, it's getting more specific. And so

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Speaker 4: to the degree that you can build something that is

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Speaker 4: in service of a small but responsive group, you can

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Speaker 4: ultimately scale that the same way that you can make

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Speaker 4: eye contact with somebody in a room and you can

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Speaker 4: scale the import of what you're saying to everybody in

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Speaker 4: that room. And there's no greater example of that than

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Speaker 4: what the agency has been able to do with beats

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Speaker 4: I mean, like resuscitating beats. A lot of people don't

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Speaker 4: know it. Beats by Dre was bound for the scrap heap.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it wasn't. It wasn't doing well as a business.

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Speaker 4: And so when you have this moment where we get

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Speaker 4: to defribrillate the brand and speak on behalf of black

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Speaker 4: youth and do this piece of work called you Love

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Speaker 4: Me that really resets and asks the question at all

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Speaker 4: that everybody black, certainly, and then everybody that really was

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Speaker 4: paying attention was had on the tip of their tongues

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Speaker 4: like you love black cults, why don't you love black people?

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Speaker 4: Where you can turn the brand in that kind of

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Speaker 4: megaphone for the youth segment of twelve percent of the

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Speaker 4: American population. There are plenty of people in advertising that

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Speaker 4: would tell you, oh, we're being too tight, like this

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Speaker 4: isn't for can't we get it like a little room

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Speaker 4: year so it can include everybody? And you start whittling

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Speaker 4: it down and you affect the purity of that message,

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Speaker 4: and you can't create the level of advocacy that three

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Speaker 4: years later, you look and Beats is now in the

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Speaker 4: Verizon Holiday Bundle, and Paul G. Bodi and women from

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Speaker 4: SNL are out there selling Beats as a carrot to

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Speaker 4: get you to buy a two year Verizon plan in

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Speaker 4: flyover states.

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Speaker 2: You will ultimately be able to achieve.

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Speaker 4: Marketplace dominance through an ethnic insight, a cultural insight, or even.

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Speaker 2: In some cases, geographic insite.

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Speaker 5: It is about, it is not about.

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Speaker 1: Afro Tech is a global gathering where inclusive tech companies

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Speaker 1: meet innovators. It's the only tech event you.

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Speaker 3: Need all year.

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Speaker 1: Get ready for afro Tech twenty twenty three in Austin, Texas, November.

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Speaker 3: First through the fifth. We built a whole.

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Speaker 1: The massive corporate layoffs of twenty twenty two and twenty

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Speaker 1: learn more. Where would you say the concept of influencer

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Speaker 1: is going.

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Speaker 2: Down the rabbit hole?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so, first and foremost, I think there was a

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Speaker 4: time where it was obviously influencers were an alternative media channel.

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00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:36,200
Speaker 4: Increasingly and certainly collectively, they are becoming the pre eminent

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Speaker 4: media channel if you compare it to what can raise

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Speaker 4: audiences hold their attention and oh, by the way, because

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Speaker 4: there's all these intermediaries also you know, cut the feed

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Speaker 4: or create the space for Coke home Depot or whoever

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Speaker 4: else wants to talk talk in between them. And as

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Speaker 4: as a result of that, it became a career for

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Speaker 4: a lot of people, and certainly became a career aspiration

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Speaker 4: for a lot of people. I think increasingly, being an

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Speaker 4: influencer is going to be an ingredient and a lot

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Speaker 4: of people's kind of economic recipe. Right, So you might

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Speaker 4: it'll be one thread that you're probably braiding together with

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Speaker 4: other ways that you earn for a lot of people,

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Speaker 4: and that could be because of some standard expertise they have, right,

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Speaker 4: Like maybe you're teaching piano. Maybe you're teaching piano not

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Speaker 4: just you know, putting the chords on YouTube, but maybe

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Speaker 4: you have like clients that are in some private room

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Speaker 4: with you and you're listening to who knows, but expertise

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Speaker 4: like that just sheer popularity. But I do think that,

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Speaker 4: like we just said about brands writ large, whether as

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Speaker 4: big as Rihanna Beyonce, increasingly what will happen with influences

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Speaker 4: is the things that influences do to proverbially clout chase,

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Speaker 4: in other words, the things that they trace that they

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Speaker 4: already see or working, and they replicate what is already working,

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Speaker 4: and they just put that little spin on it. So

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Speaker 4: it's theirs that's gonna the bottom is going to fall

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Speaker 4: out of that. AI is going to eat the bottom

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Speaker 4: out of that period. AI could eat the bottom out

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Speaker 4: of the entire porn industry for oh, we know the

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Speaker 4: original digital strategies and influences. By the way, I think

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Speaker 4: we're at a tipping point. I think it's right for

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Speaker 4: young people to be thinking about the moves that they

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Speaker 4: make as being part of a permanent record. I think

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Speaker 4: it is important for people to start to think about

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Speaker 4: the audiences that they're able to create on wherever they

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Speaker 4: publish or wherever they present their brand as needing some

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Speaker 4: other kind of.

441
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:01,760
Speaker 2: Collecting trade other than.

442
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 4: Ones that are controlled by Elon Musk or Mark Zuckerberg or.

443
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:08,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you name it, you name it.

444
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:13,240
Speaker 4: Daniel Eck is increasingly important, and I think the jury

445
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 4: is still out, so I'll take a rold listen.

446
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:16,159
Speaker 2: In the United Masters.

447
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 4: Right now, it is impossible to know what kind of

448
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,960
Speaker 4: formats are going to present themselves in music in the

449
00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:23,840
Speaker 4: coming five to seven years.

450
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:25,400
Speaker 2: It's just impossible.

451
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,920
Speaker 4: But when we say that we believe that independence should

452
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 4: be the default setting for the music industry all around

453
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:36,640
Speaker 4: the world, it should matter less. Right, So you think

454
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:39,920
Speaker 4: about the last couple of format changes. Just think about

455
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:42,320
Speaker 4: the fact that when the ring tone you seem old

456
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:45,480
Speaker 4: enough will to remember the ring tone era, when ring

457
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:47,960
Speaker 4: tones came to be, that was an entirely net new

458
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 4: revenue stream that should have been enjoyed by this industry.

459
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:55,680
Speaker 4: As you can well imagine, it really just went to

460
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:59,200
Speaker 4: the rights holders in that case. And at that time,

461
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 4: the rights holders were almost never, almost never the people

462
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 4: that actually created the thing that you love. Then, when

463
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,120
Speaker 4: you get to streaming, right, streaming is in that new

464
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 4: format change, the negotiation and you've seen I'm sure you've

465
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,840
Speaker 4: seen this, right, the negotiation of what a stream is

466
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:28,879
Speaker 4: worth was handled by effectively three companies. And now when

467
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 4: you look forward, so now imagine a world where both

468
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:35,680
Speaker 4: Taylor Swift, Bad Bunny Toby Wigway, like.

469
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:36,399
Speaker 2: All these.

470
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 4: Millions of people on United Masters and tens of millions

471
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:44,880
Speaker 4: who are using platforms like United Masters to get their

472
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 4: work to the world.

473
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 2: Imagine a world where they all own their work, or

474
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 2: at least this portion of their work.

475
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 4: Now you can't have a ringtone era that purposefully excludes

476
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 4: them in a future state. So I can't tell you

477
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:00,920
Speaker 4: what the ringtone is about to be. I can tell

478
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:03,679
Speaker 4: you it's coming, and I can tell you that the

479
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:07,320
Speaker 4: creative class is better armed by owning their data, their

480
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 4: relationships with their audiences, owning their IP and frankly, really

481
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,240
Speaker 4: figuring out how they can do something other than trace

482
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,200
Speaker 4: what has already worked, and really lean into the creative

483
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:23,400
Speaker 4: in creative class then ever before, I think the best

484
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,719
Speaker 4: prepared are going to satisfy those three checkboxes.

485
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 2: And.

486
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:29,880
Speaker 4: The rest of it is the rest of it. I'll

487
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,679
Speaker 4: watch it play out. I don't know how influencers are

488
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:40,119
Speaker 4: going to go, but I know just raw titillation is

489
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:44,159
Speaker 4: just this algorithmic a task as poking holes in a

490
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:46,960
Speaker 4: legal document. And if AI can eat the entire legal

491
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:51,440
Speaker 4: profession or eighty percent of it, you can eat this too.

492
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:52,280
Speaker 1: Damn.

493
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 3: Let's go a level deeper.

494
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 1: There is you know, I think about ten years ago,

495
00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,240
Speaker 1: fifteen years ago, you asked kid what they want to do,

496
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 1: they would have said, you know, I want to be

497
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 1: in the NBA or the NFL. Today they want to

498
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:07,360
Speaker 1: be I show speed or logan Paul or Jake Paul right,

499
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 1: and you know, so people we often create content with

500
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 1: the goal in mind to be found, to be discovered.

501
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:14,720
Speaker 1: You know, it's kind of like chasing the A and

502
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 1: R back in the day. You want to be found

503
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 1: by somebody at a record label who could give you,

504
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:25,200
Speaker 1: you know, a shot. So posting to social inconsistency on

505
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 1: social and delivering quality content is one leg of the stool.

506
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:33,119
Speaker 1: How can we be more strategic in creating opportunities? Though

507
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 1: a while we're creating content.

508
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 4: More strategic than what than we are, because I would

509
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 4: say kind of a bull market, right, kind of everybody

510
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 4: got everybody got podcast, everybody can be logan Paul right now,

511
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 4: that I shouldn't say everyone, I should say anyone can

512
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:57,479
Speaker 4: be right. So when you say more strategic.

513
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 1: And creating things that actually get the attention to the

514
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 1: guy goes, Okay, Geico now wants to be a part

515
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,199
Speaker 1: of this movement that I'm doing or you know you

516
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:09,399
Speaker 1: mentioned home Depot. But so it's one thing to create

517
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 1: content and have a podcast out enough I mean to actually

518
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 1: make money from that podcast.

519
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, So you know I want to underline one

520
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:24,360
Speaker 4: one of the or one of the I suppose dependencies

521
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:27,639
Speaker 4: underneath what you're saying. You know, Soldier Boy doesn't get

522
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:28,160
Speaker 4: enough credit.

523
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:32,920
Speaker 1: He does over here, he does over here.

524
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 2: Oh no, But but Soldier.

525
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 4: Boy was really the first time you had something that

526
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 4: was really popular also directly pay I mean, like the

527
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 4: notion that's spread on YouTube and that the absence account

528
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 4: was on and that the mere consumption of this thing

529
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 4: in this other media channel. You got to remember, like,

530
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 4: he's a guy that probably made that under the assumption

531
00:28:56,160 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 4: that one day, hopefully somebody liking him TV would take right,

532
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 4: Like in TV, it ain't pay you for every time

533
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 4: they spun getting jiggy with it, right, they're like, yo,

534
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 4: you're welcome. And so that I did it, your promotional

535
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 4: asset could actually be your revenue inlet.

536
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 2: That was kind of that new and add sense.

537
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 4: And all these platforms that are with one hand I'm

538
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 4: kind of wagging my finger at like, don't let them

539
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 4: own your audience. They also enabled so many people to

540
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:30,120
Speaker 4: never have to figure out, never have to learn anybody

541
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 4: at Geico's name, right, because you can flip a switch

542
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 4: and all of a sudden your content is monetized. You

543
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 4: might not have ultimate control over it, and you're certainly

544
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 4: not getting the lion's share of the revenue. But the

545
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:42,239
Speaker 4: point is you can go off and you can go

546
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 4: back and invest in your craft and your craft alone

547
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 4: knowing that some money is coming in and you ain't

548
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:47,960
Speaker 4: have to do nothing to throw a switch.

549
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 2: So layer one.

550
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 4: Of that was what enabled a lot of the media

551
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 4: escape they were seeing today. And it's really really important

552
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 4: that everybody not think that they need to go stand

553
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 4: next to the CMO of this or.

554
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 2: That or the other in order to have fruitful careers.

555
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 4: Like that's still a very viable path to be able

556
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 4: to monetize through these third parties.

557
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 2: You're not going to get the lion's share, but that's

558
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 2: a real.

559
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 4: Thing as you move up and you want to catch

560
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 4: somebody's eye. Look, one of them is the obvious one, Right,

561
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 4: have a hit. Obviously, very very easy.

562
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 2: To say, but successful is success.

563
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 4: Right, success is a crowded room, and you got to

564
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 4: remember that in most cases, you got to think about

565
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 4: if brand marketers are the people that you really want

566
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 4: to chase down. It's a very conservative environment, right. This

567
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 4: is why sports is so replete money, Like people throw

568
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 4: money in sports all the time because it's so many

569
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 4: different places to throw money in, right, do a league deal,

570
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 4: you do a team deal, you buy an agency to

571
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 4: make you some stuff.

572
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 2: You do an.

573
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 4: Athlete deal and then the athlete shows up at the thing.

574
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,120
Speaker 4: You do a naming rights deal at an arena. You

575
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 4: can There's so many different ways to park money, and

576
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 4: most of those are tied to all of these other

577
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 4: people's financial uh reward. And you know that they're not

578
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 4: going to lose. Cia is not going to lose lose

579
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 4: an artist might an artists wrote them, shake them dice,

580
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 4: throw it up against the wall all the time, and

581
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 4: they've seen that over and over and over, right, So

582
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 4: it's just a natural. It doesn't feel it's safe to

583
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 4: invest in music. And frankly, increasingly other creators and other

584
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 4: formats twitch streamers like how many people got to how

585
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 4: many kids from Connecticut got to say the N word?

586
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 4: Before people start to like, chill on that space, right?

587
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 4: Or what is kai kaisat in Union Square the other day?

588
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 4: A second ago he was like, oh, yeah, we want

589
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 4: to work with him, he's edgy, And now it's.

590
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 2: Like, oh riot yeah.

591
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 4: And so there is a there's a great degree of

592
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 4: grooming that goes in and even knowing how to deal

593
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 4: with a brand like that of that statue and and

594
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 4: most of them are not going to rock with you

595
00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 4: until you achieve a certain level of prominence. Now are

596
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 4: they exceptions to that rule, Sure, but the rule is

597
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 4: shorter to say than the exceptions. And sorry, I want

598
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 4: to I'm gonna give a real answer. This the last

599
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 4: thing I will mention. If indeed the gatekeepers that you

600
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 4: want to get to are people that you want to patronize,

601
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 4: you like brands, the only advice I can give you

602
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 4: is just remember that they're real people. Like if you're

603
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 4: really the creative entrepreneur, it really feels like there's something

604
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 4: that Tender or Geico or twenty three and me should be.

605
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 4: That's a story you should tell, and you really want

606
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 4: to get to them. And you tried the LinkedIn thing,

607
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 4: and you tried to you put the ePK together and

608
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 4: you wrote the thing and blah blah blah bah blah.

609
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 4: You know, look those people out, Look those people up

610
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 4: on all those other platforms. Those are real people behind

611
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 4: all behind all of those corporate all that corporate signings.

612
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:52,959
Speaker 4: Those are real people that have real preferences, and if

613
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:54,960
Speaker 4: you want to find them, they are not hard to

614
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 4: find because guess what marketers are self promotion and so

615
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:01,720
Speaker 4: you need to spend time figuring out what it is

616
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 4: that they like and what they think about Beyonce and

617
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 4: Rihanna and so on and so forth, and you know

618
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 4: you're can customize off of that.

619
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 2: It's not.

620
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 4: There is no magic app and there is no shortcut.

621
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 4: And now in a hyperconnected world, almost everybody is accessible.

622
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 4: You know, figure out who their trust circle is, penetrate

623
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 4: that trust circle.

624
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 2: Love that.

625
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 4: Dame and Jay did it. In the nineties, man, nobody

626
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 4: was playing on radio. They start sending champagne bottles.

627
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 2: There you go, there you go.

628
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 1: I want you to talk about the five c's because

629
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 1: you talked about you know, you got to have a hit.

630
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 1: That's the easiest way, the first way to get in.

631
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:49,720
Speaker 1: And you think, so content, cretence, customization co incentives for seas.

632
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 1: I I do my research. It's for seas. And so,

633
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 1: how so you talked about this, miss I missed, missed

634
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 1: the fifth when content.

635
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 4: Content is your idea that you want to spread, right,

636
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:07,560
Speaker 4: credence right right?

637
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 1: You got carriers, carriers, that's what I missed. Customization co incentives. Yeah, yeah,

638
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 1: So how do you know when something's going to be ahead.

639
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 2: Man, come on, bro yo, If I knew that, I would,

640
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 2: we wouldn't be having this conversation.

641
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 4: You don't, You don't, right, But what you can what

642
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:35,279
Speaker 4: you can recognize are the early symptoms, and you can

643
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:37,759
Speaker 4: nurture those symptoms, right. And what you can do is

644
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:40,319
Speaker 4: prepare yourself so that when you get a little bit

645
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:41,839
Speaker 4: of lyft off, it can become a lot of lyft

646
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:42,720
Speaker 4: off because you're.

647
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:44,320
Speaker 2: Not trying to figure this out for the first time.

648
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:49,080
Speaker 4: But look, there will always be The reason that casinos

649
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 4: work at all is because the slot machine makes the

650
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:56,400
Speaker 4: same amount of noise, whether you hit for five million dollars,

651
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:04,800
Speaker 4: the same exact noise, right. And you know, I don't

652
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 4: think knowing what is a hit has everything to do

653
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:11,239
Speaker 4: with how you're defining a hit, of course, right, So

654
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 4: like knowing you got to hit. There's a great piece

655
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:16,800
Speaker 4: of footage. I'll send it to you. You might have

656
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:19,760
Speaker 4: even seen this, like Lil NASAs the day he releases

657
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:22,560
Speaker 4: Old Town Road and he goes gets his pizza. He

658
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 4: got these crummy blinds behind him. You could tell like

659
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 4: everybody's had that apartment and he's in right there eating

660
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 4: pizza and whatnot. And he comes back, He's like, yoh,

661
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 4: so I'm gonna check in with you in a year.

662
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 4: Boom and he comes back and yeah, he's got the

663
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 4: white mink on right.

664
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:41,759
Speaker 2: First of all, that could have been engineered. I will

665
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 2: say it required.

666
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:47,279
Speaker 4: That level of ambition is required for anybody's going to

667
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 4: program like you gotta believe that. We watched that same

668
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:53,720
Speaker 4: recipe with Kanye West most I mean probably most notably,

669
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:58,799
Speaker 4: Like you gotta believe that. And hopefully you know, we

670
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:03,840
Speaker 4: as a class people who are who are gonna benefit

671
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:07,800
Speaker 4: in so many ways from from a viable creative class.

672
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 4: Hopefully we don't see that and try to dim everybody's life.

673
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:12,880
Speaker 4: But the point is, like some people just really feel

674
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:16,879
Speaker 4: that way. I'm gonna be the next you name it

675
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 4: for everybody else like myself, you can't know if you

676
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:24,920
Speaker 4: got to hit per se. I just heard a great

677
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 4: story about a record that I'm in love with right now.

678
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:31,359
Speaker 2: It's by a band called Dirry. They're not even on the.

679
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 4: Platform, this band called Dirry. This guy's been working, he's

680
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 4: been a journeyman musician for twenty years. It's a garage

681
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:41,919
Speaker 4: it makes like a garage rock product kind of he's

682
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:44,319
Speaker 4: been doing it forever, right, and he's never really the

683
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:48,239
Speaker 4: needles never really moved for him. And he releases this

684
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:50,759
Speaker 4: snippet and it starts to take off on TikTok, and

685
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 4: the snippet is wild Side. The snippet goes the bridge

686
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 4: to the snippet is I'm just as broke as the

687
00:36:57,239 --> 00:36:59,719
Speaker 4: day I was born, but I still make it work

688
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 4: like everybody else does. It's all just a cruel joke,

689
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 4: and everybody knows there's no way. I mean, it's that dark.

690
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:12,359
Speaker 4: It starts getting adopted on TikTok because people people, people

691
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 4: can relate to that. People go through dark things themselves,

692
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:17,440
Speaker 4: so it could be just as trivial as like I

693
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 4: put the I put my drink too close to the

694
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:23,240
Speaker 4: ledge and it fell off, and people are using that

695
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 4: that sound to be like to signal regret. But it

696
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 4: lifts off so much that this guy decides he's gonna

697
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:33,040
Speaker 4: release it as a full song because he's chasing performance,

698
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 4: because he's studying enough to know, yo, I got I

699
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:38,799
Speaker 4: got the similance to something here like these are the

700
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:41,799
Speaker 4: right conditions that I need to pursue. I need to

701
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:45,400
Speaker 4: take a next step, right he decides to write the

702
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:47,279
Speaker 4: next song, but on the way to write the song,

703
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,359
Speaker 4: only way to deliver the song to record the third verse,

704
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 4: he realizes on the ride over there, oh my god,

705
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:57,480
Speaker 4: it's working. I feel great actually, And so the third

706
00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:02,279
Speaker 4: verse of the song is you know, the third act

707
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 4: of Rudy or Rocky or Black Panther.

708
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:09,240
Speaker 2: I mean it, just it. He turns it so.

709
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 4: That it is this positivity anthem, and he releases that,

710
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 4: and now the record really takes off. Say that to

711
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:22,480
Speaker 4: say this, the tenor of that song changed from when

712
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 4: he first released it as a snippet to when he

713
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:30,120
Speaker 4: released it as a song, and the only difference was

714
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 4: what happened and the response that he got in between.

715
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:37,400
Speaker 4: That's what changed his entire outlook and therefore changed the

716
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:42,839
Speaker 4: artist self. You can't know if you got to hit,

717
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:45,399
Speaker 4: but you can know if you feel something and if

718
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:47,400
Speaker 4: other people feel something, and whether or not to invest

719
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:51,120
Speaker 4: more energy right there at that spot. And that's what

720
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 4: I would tell everybody that song. I think I listened

721
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:56,120
Speaker 4: to that song over and over. I think this guy

722
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:58,920
Speaker 4: could burn down Coachella with that song. I don't know

723
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 4: if he ever will, but I know he made it

724
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:05,319
Speaker 4: to my inbox. I now care about his story, I

725
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:09,319
Speaker 4: now care about his brand, and hopefully that's hit enough

726
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:11,680
Speaker 4: for him. But he did, he played the game the

727
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 4: right way. You see some response, you invest, you change

728
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 4: what it means or sorry, you follow your own license,

729
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 4: you obey your own license to change what it means

730
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:29,320
Speaker 4: because you're in a different place. You present that to

731
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 4: people and they respond even more so to it, including CMOSA.

732
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 4: You know major distributes like I don't, I don't. I

733
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:41,480
Speaker 4: don't have a cheat code for having a hit. I

734
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:43,480
Speaker 4: have a cheat code for working really hard when you

735
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:44,719
Speaker 4: see promises signals.

736
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 1: So I interviewed Marcus Collins on a couple of episodes ago,

737
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:50,080
Speaker 1: well this.

738
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 2: Is why you know the cookbooks. So well, here's my

739
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 2: co author. That's that's my brother.

740
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, So I asked him. I'm like, so Marcus

741
00:39:58,160 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 1: and I am going close. I'm I need you to

742
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:02,120
Speaker 1: send me some questions like what should I ask Chausa?

743
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:06,319
Speaker 1: And so he sent me some questions to ask you. So,

744
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:10,600
Speaker 1: so the first one, the first one is what responsibility

745
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 1: do marketers bear who leverage culture as an influence as

746
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 1: a way to influence commerce? What responsibility do they have?

747
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:23,680
Speaker 2: A huge and significant one and is one of the more.

748
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:30,240
Speaker 4: Advertising specifically is one of the final we talked about

749
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:35,200
Speaker 4: how you consume content today. Advertising in particular is one

750
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:38,440
Speaker 4: of the few creative disciplines that gets you, whether you

751
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:42,360
Speaker 4: want it or not. It's got an final standard out

752
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:48,080
Speaker 4: and the onus that that puts on someone is so

753
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:52,840
Speaker 4: crazy when you consider that we got I mean, just

754
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:55,439
Speaker 4: look at what is going on in Congress right now.

755
00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 4: You can completely independently live in a totally separate bubble.

756
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 2: Of reality writ large. And so if you are gonna

757
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:09,399
Speaker 2: if you are.

758
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:16,759
Speaker 4: Gonna occupy spaces that definitionally I mean, for example, out

759
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 4: of home, Like I ain't talking about commercials more, out

760
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 4: of home is something you got to negotiate. If you're

761
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:23,919
Speaker 4: gonna be in the world with out a home, billboards

762
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 4: and so on and so forth, you've got to negotiate

763
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 4: what it says, whatever is what's presenting you with. And

764
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:34,920
Speaker 4: that is an awesome responsibility because it's one of the

765
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:39,440
Speaker 4: few places in which it's It's inarguable nobody gets to

766
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 4: to choose to unsee what you just presented, but people

767
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 4: can choose to unsee almost everything else. But I would

768
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:48,520
Speaker 4: argue even people that don't know that they are in

769
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:54,160
Speaker 4: the push culture forward business still are they still are?

770
00:41:55,760 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 4: You know, look at bud Light. Bud Like, bud Light

771
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 4: was one of the artifacts of Trump is America and

772
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:09,600
Speaker 4: it is now a rejected artifact because of these decisions

773
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:13,800
Speaker 4: that were that were made. And you can think whatever

774
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 4: you want to think about how.

775
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:22,800
Speaker 2: You might have, as.

776
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 4: A senior employee of ABM BEV or at bud Light,

777
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 4: handled it or prevented it. The truth of the matter

778
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:33,200
Speaker 4: is that huge things that mean the same thing to

779
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:36,040
Speaker 4: a lot of people at one time are very very

780
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:38,879
Speaker 4: very rare, and they're so rare that you can watch

781
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:41,840
Speaker 4: it break. So all of a sudden, bud Light means

782
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:43,560
Speaker 4: this to so many people. It's like it's fun and

783
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 4: it's football, and it's this, that and the other, and

784
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:46,399
Speaker 4: it's like, no, it's not.

785
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:48,319
Speaker 2: It belongs to us.

786
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:51,880
Speaker 4: And if you give it to anybody else, if you

787
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:55,480
Speaker 4: let anybody, if you acknowledge anybody else, we don't have

788
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:58,799
Speaker 4: a problem in here, right. So, just the bigness of

789
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 4: that brand alone is something that is delicate and rare,

790
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:03,480
Speaker 4: and so the.

791
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:07,440
Speaker 2: It is a tight rope exercise.

792
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:10,759
Speaker 4: It is a tight rope walk to have anything that

793
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 4: huge in pop culture, and it's one that I, you know,

794
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:23,880
Speaker 4: I feel really great about being able to nudge broad

795
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 4: pop culture in the direction of values that I share

796
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:33,400
Speaker 4: and I'm able to unearth from these humongous corporate giants who.

797
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 2: Don't know to write that down.

798
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:38,839
Speaker 4: In other words, beats right, like we were just telling them,

799
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:41,399
Speaker 4: we were just talking about the Beat story. It is

800
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:44,880
Speaker 4: terrifically meaningful to me that we have proven over a

801
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 4: thousand or so days that you can completely resuscitate a

802
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:51,400
Speaker 4: brand globally at retail by focusing on and speaking.

803
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 2: On behalf of black youth.

804
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:57,400
Speaker 4: Not all you do, but starting there as the lynchpin

805
00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:00,800
Speaker 4: for everything else you're gonna do, to the point where

806
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:04,680
Speaker 4: this is now so hot that you know your retailer

807
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 4: is all excited and your partners are all excited too.

808
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:10,480
Speaker 4: It's not even just it's flying off the shelves. It's

809
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:13,680
Speaker 4: like Verizon executives knowing that this is hot all of

810
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:19,280
Speaker 4: a sudden. Again, that's a great that's a great story

811
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:20,160
Speaker 4: for the agency.

812
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:22,760
Speaker 2: But what I love about it is that it licenses.

813
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:24,920
Speaker 4: Somebody else who works somewhere else to be able to

814
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:29,480
Speaker 4: follow in those footsteps and go, hey, maybe you know

815
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:32,400
Speaker 4: those values they don't. That doesn't have to just be

816
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 4: reserved for black youth that could be deaf athletes.

817
00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:38,960
Speaker 2: Somewhere, somebody's gonna.

818
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 4: Be able to present that case of beats and be like, Yo,

819
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 4: they went from absolutely cold to being the number one

820
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:45,799
Speaker 4: gen Z brand and being able to sell out all

821
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:48,480
Speaker 4: over the globe because they focused on this one thing. Now,

822
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 4: this is what I'm trying to tell you about these

823
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:53,960
Speaker 4: deaf athletes, and to the extent that I can enable

824
00:44:54,040 --> 00:45:01,600
Speaker 4: that just in my own success, I'm terrifically proud. But

825
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 4: I will tell you somebody's got to figure out They

826
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:10,200
Speaker 4: just haven't figured it out just yet. Somebody's got to

827
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:16,719
Speaker 4: figure out how to treat trumpest men with the same

828
00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:21,320
Speaker 4: care to day've treated other small groups. It is a culture,

829
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:24,960
Speaker 4: and it has It is a network that has correspondent rituals, artifacts,

830
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:29,840
Speaker 4: languages that express underlying beliefs, and people that are cracking

831
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:33,279
Speaker 4: it are only kind of sort of cracking it. Eventually,

832
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:40,239
Speaker 4: somebody's gonna create a multicultural offering that is specifically for

833
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:41,000
Speaker 4: trumpet men.

834
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:43,600
Speaker 2: You gotta be ready for that too.

835
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 1: I've got one minute left. He gave me two more,

836
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:48,680
Speaker 1: but I'm gonna do one more in an interest of time.

837
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:52,960
Speaker 1: He asked, what does the future of advertising look like

838
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 1: when there are so many factors eroding at its core

839
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:57,800
Speaker 1: offering creativity?

840
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:00,600
Speaker 2: What does the future of ties look like?

841
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 1: Say it again, what does the future of advertising look

842
00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:05,680
Speaker 1: like when there are so many factors eroding at its

843
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:09,480
Speaker 1: core offering creativity?

844
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:14,600
Speaker 4: Look, I reject that thesis creativity is not being eroded

845
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:21,400
Speaker 4: at all. The rights of a very small, highly trained

846
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:24,080
Speaker 4: feud to suggest that they have brought creativity to bear,

847
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:28,680
Speaker 4: and they and they alone, you know, have access to it.

848
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:33,799
Speaker 2: That's what has eroded. And you know, as proud as

849
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:34,840
Speaker 2: I am of any.

850
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 4: Standing staff that we have here and their ability to

851
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:39,839
Speaker 4: go out and do this work on behalf of great

852
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:40,480
Speaker 4: brands will not.

853
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:43,319
Speaker 2: I see artists in pipeline all the time that have

854
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:46,600
Speaker 2: ideas that are black level ideas.

855
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:55,560
Speaker 5: I'm talking lying monster ideas, and they have shown I

856
00:46:55,640 --> 00:47:01,839
Speaker 5: just feel really grateful that I have and pay attention to.

857
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:05,640
Speaker 6: The creative class that never comes up under the roof

858
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:08,960
Speaker 6: of any advertising agency or any marketing discipline or not,

859
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:11,840
Speaker 6: and I get to study them if I get structed

860
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:15,160
Speaker 6: as much game from a seventeen year old managed to

861
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:18,919
Speaker 6: make it into my feet as I ever got from

862
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:20,279
Speaker 6: Dan Widen my.

863
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:22,600
Speaker 2: Steve Style.

864
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:36,280
Speaker 1: Black Tech Green Money is a production of Blavity afro

865
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:39,520
Speaker 1: Tech on the Black Effect podcast Networking I Hire Media.

866
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:43,120
Speaker 1: It's produced by Morgan Debonne and me Well Lucas, with

867
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:45,600
Speaker 1: additional production support by Sarah Ergan.

868
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:46,480
Speaker 2: And Rose McLucas.

869
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:50,920
Speaker 1: Special thank you to Michael Davis, Vanessa Serrano and Maya Moldrew.

870
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:53,319
Speaker 1: Learn more about my guests and other text as well

871
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:56,520
Speaker 1: as an innovators at afro tech dot com. Join your

872
00:47:56,560 --> 00:48:00,799
Speaker 1: black Tech dream money, Share this with somebody, Go get

873
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:02,920
Speaker 1: your money.

874
00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:02,879
Speaker 3: Peace and love.

875
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:11,120
Speaker 1: Afrotech is a global gathering where inclusive tech companies meet innovators.

876
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:13,440
Speaker 1: It's the only tech event you need all year. Get

877
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:16,880
Speaker 1: ready for Afrotech twenty twenty three in Austin, Texas, November

878
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:17,800
Speaker 1: first through the fifth.

879
00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:18,680
Speaker 3: We built a whole.

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00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:20,360
Speaker 1: Temper you can use to help you get your employer

881
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:21,680
Speaker 1: to sponsor your trip.

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00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:24,560
Speaker 3: And enjoy experiences built for every stage your career, whether

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00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:27,040
Speaker 3: you're a college student looking for your next internship, or

884
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:29,120
Speaker 3: if you work in avention capital looking for your next

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00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:31,200
Speaker 3: business to invest in, and if you're looking for a

886
00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:32,359
Speaker 3: co founder or people that's.

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00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:32,839
Speaker 1: Join your team.

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00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:34,160
Speaker 3: There's no better place to be.

889
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:36,760
Speaker 1: The massive corporate layoffs of twenty twenty two and twenty

890
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:38,919
Speaker 1: twenty three have affected our community in a big way.

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00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:41,200
Speaker 1: An afrotech wants to help you get back on your

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00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:44,120
Speaker 1: feet with skill development, making it easier to switch industries.

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00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:45,000
Speaker 3: If that's your route.

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00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:47,480
Speaker 1: In an afrotech, you'll make connections to help you get

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00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:50,920
Speaker 1: your next opportunity. Visit afrotech dot com slash conference to

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00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:51,439
Speaker 1: learn more.